Madison Beer: Blackmailed With My Nudes (FBF)

Madison Beer joins Call Her Daddy to tell her full story for the first time. Madison opens up about having nude videos spread across the internet, multiple instances of blackmail and public slut shaming. She reveals the trauma she endured in childhood and the impact of continuous violation and sexualization. Madison discusses her rock bottom and how these experiences, combined with constant online bullying, almost ended her life. This episode includes discussion of sexual assault and suicide. Please keep this in mind when deciding if, how and when you’ll listen.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 1:30Alex Cooper?

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• 2:13Alex Cooper?

  What is up Daddy Gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 2:22Alex Cooper?

  Madison Beer, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:25Alex Cooper?

  I am so happy that we're finally doing this. I know you and I have like kinda talked before. We were like, we need to make it happen. And now we're here.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  We're here.

• 2:34Alex Cooper?

  It feels right. Thank you for coming today.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 2:37Alex Cooper?

  I'm gonna get into it and explain just like a little recap of things that have happened.

• 2:42Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:42Alex Cooper?

  At 13 years old, you got your first record deal after Justin Bieber posted a video on the internet from YouTube of you singing a cover. And it went viral and ever since then, you have been in the public eye.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:55Alex Cooper?

  You have over 35 plus million followers on Instagram, millions on TikTok, millions all over every platform. Crazy. And you're constantly a topic of conversation on the internet.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Unfortunately.

• 3:11Alex Cooper?

  I would say, which I don't know, like, do you love it? Do you hate it?

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Definitely don't love it. It's not fun always. Sometimes it's fun. Sometimes when people are nice, it's fun. But people are not usually nice to me.

• 3:22Alex Cooper?

  The internet is a dark, scary place.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:25Alex Cooper?

  You just released your memoir, The Half of It.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:28Alex Cooper?

  And I am so happy for you because again, I feel like the internet has a way to like dehumanize people, to come up with narratives and storylines and like, it really was powerful reading your book. I read the whole thing.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 3:44Alex Cooper?

  It's, you talk about a lot of personal moments and events in your life that I think give us a better insight into who you are sitting here today and how you got here. So we're gonna get into it.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 3:56Alex Cooper?

  Here we go. Let's go back to the beginning to kinda just like start from, start from scratch. Okay. You grew up in Long Island.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  I did.

• 4:05Alex Cooper?

  What is like a core childhood memory of yours that's happy and you like smile when you think back on it?

• 4:13Speaker 01

  I always think about summer camp in a really positive way, which wasn't in Long Island. It was like in Upstate New York, but it was always. Just sort of, yeah, like an escape, obviously, from school all the time. And like, my parents were going through divorce. It was nice to just have a summer to myself, essentially. Like, my parents used to always joke and say that, like, I was the first kid on the bus and the last kid off. And at visiting day, kids were like, wrapped around their parents' ankles, begging them not to leave. And I was just like, is it over yet? Can you guys go? And I don't know, it was just sort of like my escape place. I lived for camp. So that's definitely my happy place when I think back to my childhood.

• 4:45Alex Cooper?

  That's a very cute memory. When you say it was your escape place, I know you mentioned your parents got divorced when you were seven.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:53Alex Cooper?

  I think sometimes, like, divorce is so common, but I feel like people forget that, like, it can really shape who you are. How did your parents' divorce affect you growing up?

• 5:05Speaker 01

  I feel like for me, I spent a lot of time trying to protect my little brother, because he was really, really young at the time. He was like four or five. Um, and I remember just wanting to make sure he was okay. And obviously, the change of like bouncing back and forth every two, three days was weird and hard, but I don't know, my main focus was him at the time. Um, so I don't feel like I really dealt with it. And then I actually quickly sort of became like a mediator in not even their relationship, like in my dad's relationships with new women, or my mom and my dad. I was really lucky that my parents were able to sort of still have a relationship and be on good terms and in the same room. I have friends I grew up with whose parents couldn't even speak. So I was very grateful for that, but

• 5:50Speaker 01

  I think that that was sort of the beginning of aging me really quickly and growing up really fast. Um, because I was just put in sort of adult positions really young.

• 6:00Alex Cooper?

  When you talked about also like being a mediator, I'm also thinking like, I think every time a kid's worst nightmare is like, who the fuck is gonna be my stepmom or my stepdad?

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Like, multiple.

• 6:12Alex Cooper?

  Okay, there you go. Like, was it hard for you to see, like, your father dating new women? And like, was that like a weird dynamic for you?

• 6:22Speaker 01

  My dad's gonna kill me for talking about this. Love you, dad. Um, it was really, really weird and really, really hard. And I think it was um, hard in ways that my dad, it's, I think, okay, to contextualize, growing up, I think we all have that moment of like, whoa, our parents are people weird. Okay, so that's like a moment that I think you have at some point. Now, when I talk about this, I do look back as a man going through a divorce, who was going through a difficult time. And I empathize with him in those ways, but at the same time, I look at myself and I'm like, I did have to see sort of this like, he's gonna kill me, this like revolving door of women. And there was a lot of people and, you know, there was things that I just sort of like, had to see, whether it was like him kissing someone or even having his arm around someone,

• 7:04Speaker 01

  that was weird. And of course, I was very protective of my mom and didn't want her to be hurt.

• 7:09Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  And it was hard for sure. And my dad got remarried, um, once, but kind of twice. Like, he, he had a very serious, like, six, seven-year-long relationship after his second wife. But it was hard. It definitely also instilled abandonment issues in me very, very young, because I would develop this relationship with this woman who I sort of was like, "Oh, you're, you're like kind of my second mom." And I was actually into it because I enjoyed having these relationships with these like new women. It was fun. And then they would, I would just never see them again. And it was really hard. And I do look back and think that that is like a lot of why I have maybe these like, attachment abandonment issues, yeah.

• 7:46Alex Cooper?

  I also appreciate you saying like, "My dad is gonna kill me." I think it's a really weird, it's fucking weird. Like, trust me, I sit here and I've talked about family members and I'm like, "What the fuck?" And I, but weirdly, on the other end, and I'm sure you felt this through your music and writing, like, I can imagine the amount of young women listening being like, "I'm in it right now, Madison." Like,

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:07Alex Cooper?

  "One of my parents is going through it." And it's not even to judge the parent again, because we're almost now gonna get to the age where we're the parent

• 8:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:14Alex Cooper?

  and our kids are like, "You fucked me up."

• 8:15Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 8:16Alex Cooper?

  But you can never get over what you saw at a young age.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:20Alex Cooper?

  We're so impressionable. Anything we see that doesn't fully make sense to us and isn't like cut and dry, it can affect you and you absorb it and it becomes

• 8:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:28Alex Cooper?

  who you are.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  I literally have a song about my dad on my album and it was sort of uncomfortable because I, the first time I played it for him, we were in a, a big label meeting with like thirty people. And I wanted everyone to know that it was about my dad because it's quite a beautiful song. I kind of am at a place where I'm like, it's okay to write a song that maybe is like negative, because this is like a sliver of my experience with my dad.

• 8:49Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  And he actually took it well. He, he liked it. He was like, "It's beautiful."

• 8:52Alex Cooper?

  Wait, what is the song?

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Um, it's a song on my album.

• 8:55Alex Cooper?

  Can you tell us the song name or no?

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Hmm, it starts with an A, that's all I'll say.

• 9:01Alex Cooper?

  Okay, that's enough, that's enough.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  That's all I'll say.

• 9:19Alex Cooper?

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• 10:03Alex Cooper?

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• 10:46Alex Cooper?

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• 12:12Alex Cooper?

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• 12:56Alex Cooper?

  So everything is in one place for the daddy gang. So, ready to add entrepreneur to your list of accomplishments? Head to Shopify.com/daddy. That's Shopify.com/daddy. In your memoir, you write about one of the most traumatic experiences that you experienced in your rise of fame and your career. When you were only 15 years old, you had a nude video leaked and spread across the internet. Yep. Can you take us back to that moment Madison of like, when do you remember finding out that this got leaked and was spreading?

• 13:39Speaker 01

  Um, it's unfortunately a memory I'll never be able to shake. It's remained so vividly to the point where like I still to this day, if I get a call in the middle of the night, it's I'm back, I'm 15 again and I'm in my room and I'm finding out that this video is out there and it's really scary. Um, so yeah, so I, yeah, I was 15. I probably was even maybe 14, 13 in some of the videos that exist. And I will get to the where I'm going with, you know, the multiples, but so of course, as a young girl, there was a boy that I liked from back home. And when I was sort of already like in LA a bit, going back and forth,

• 14:24Speaker 01

  I started sending videos of myself to him as I think a lot of people do. And I also won't like ever convince myself that a lot of people don't do that because I've seen tweets of people being like, maybe you shouldn't have been dumb enough to send that to this person. And why would you do that? And I'm like, because I was a young girl with a also an app called Snapchat that literally deletes the video after you send it. What, what, what's the harm in that? I remember hearing of this thing called Snap Save. And I was like, what the fuck is that? And someone told me it was an app that you can download that basically whenever you open a Snapchat, it saves to your camera roll automatically. And I was like, that can't be real. Cause you know how you get a notification when someone screen records or takes a screenshot? I was like, that something has to notify you.

• 15:03Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 15:05Speaker 01

  So I found out that existed, but I just didn't think that the person I was sending this stuff to would remotely ever think to do something like that. Because this was someone I'd known my whole life. So I was wrong, obviously. When I first, first, first found out that it was going around, I don't, I think I was like in bed or something and someone had sent it to me and was like, yo, this is going, I just got this. No, it was like, I just got this sent to me. And I was like, who sent it to you? Where did you get this from? What the fuck? Full, just like, I I just couldn't believe what was going on. So I'm in crisis mode, just trying to trace it and do damage control and be like, where did it come from?

• 15:48Speaker 01

  Because maybe if I find the source, I can stop this. And I knew in my bones that the second it was texted to me, it would end up on the internet. Unfortunately, and I couldn't run from that fact. So it went from that to then my friend in Florida the next day. And this was someone from New York that originally texted me. My friend in Florida the next day calls me and immediately, of course, I answer and I'm like, what's going on? She's like, I just saw this video of you and she sent me a different video. So now there's two. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And I just knew at that point it was spiraling and I knew it was a matter of time until it got online. And it was so, it was so hard to just not tell my mom.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  And like, I just didn't know what, I did not know what to do. And then that night was sort of when I got the like, no, that wasn't even that night. It was that day, actually. I literally went to dance rehearsals and I remember I was like with my choreographer and I was just working on like dance movement or something for a show. And it was on Twitter and it was just there and I was just looking at it. And I remember just dropping to the floor and being like, oh, my God, what do I do? And I reached out to the person who posted it and begged them to delete it. And they just blocked me straight up, just blocked me immediately. And then now I'm staring at this gray screen with a dull username and I'm like, I just feel powerless in the moment.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  And then I'm just sitting and typing my name in quotation marks on Twitter to see everything people are saying about me and just refreshing in real time. And it was just everywhere and then it was on Vine and it was just, it was just on every social media platform possible so quickly. And I didn't.

• 17:36Speaker 01

  Realize until like years later that I I was the victim in this situation. And um, I don't know, there's just so many, there's so many things I can say about it. And I think that some people who maybe haven't gone through it, or men don't understand how truly like traumatizing something like this can be, especially for a minor. So when I talk about it, like I've had people, of course, sympathize and be like, that's horrible, but I've also had people be like, who cares?

• 18:03Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:04Alex Cooper?

  I'm so sorry, first of all. It's like disgusting that. Did you reach out to the kid that you were sending this shit to?

• 18:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did, and I was just really disappointed and.

• 18:18Alex Cooper?

  What did he say?

• 18:19Speaker 01

  He just denied that he did anything, and I was like, well, you're the only person that I sent these things to, so. And then, so it also then just continued to get worse, so. Then other videos would be uploaded that, you know, would be girls that I could sort of see a resemblance of they maybe looked like me a bit. And people would think it was me and then, and then I was put in this position. That I couldn't admit to one video and deny the rest, and again, being fifteen years old, I just denied it all being me. I was like, this isn't me. It's full stop, just not me, because I was also at the time, the adults around me were telling me that it was. Bad and it was gonna ruin my career and, oh my goodness, this is just horrible, and I remember like.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  You know, when we were younger, like Miley Cyrus had that video of her smoking a bong going viral, and I remember thinking to myself, something like that at the time. Was really negative, that if I'm like naked in something, that's, that's a million times worse. And I just remember I kept thinking about that and just being like, I'm done, I'm finished and. It was so, so hard for so long, and I felt like the whole world had seen this video and I. I also had, this, this is also the beginning of having like real. Triggerable PTSD from the situation because right when I sort of started a couple of weeks later, being able to breathe again and being like, okay, it's dying down, the internet's finding something else to like fixate on.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  I got an anonymous text message, like literally like I was in fucking Pretty Little Liars. That was a picture of a computer screen with like fifty videos on it that were all like little. And I'm looking at this and I and it's blurry, but I can see exactly what it is. And again, for anyone out there who's like, that's a lot of videos. I was a young horny kid that like sent videos to a guy that I liked, like I'm not gonna let anyone shame me for it. Cause it is what it is, but like it was a it was a lot and I just like was staring at this and I couldn't believe that they had everything I'd ever sent. And I know that in some of these videos, again, I'm like thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, these are like year, I'm not talking about a day, like these are years worth of like nudes I'm sending to this kid.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  So that just instilled a whole other level of paranoia. Am I being watched? Does someone have my Snapchat hacked? Like, what is going on right now? And I think what was the most like difficult part was knowing in my bones that I wasn't the one who was at fault, that the boy who betrayed my trust was the one who should be at fault. But that was also me learning very quickly that like men and women get treated very differently.

• 20:48Alex Cooper?

  I appreciate you saying that because as you were saying, like, I love that you said, like, I'm not ashamed. Like, it's so sick and sad. There's so many people that may listen to this and being like, it's her fault. Like, why would you send that shit? You said you could fill one fucking computer. I could have filled twenty, Madison.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  It's like, and like, we're all young women that are like, we get Snapchat, social media, we're like exploring our bodies. We feel good. We're gonna take a picture. A lot of us are gonna take a picture.

• 21:14Alex Cooper?

  And there is something to be said also of like, I remember there are moments of like kind of peer pressure of like the guy you're talking to is asking for it and you're like,

• 21:21Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 21:22Alex Cooper?

  I feel uncomfortable, like I want to like impress him so like.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  If I don't do it, another girl will, like all that.

• 21:27Alex Cooper?

  And then you start sending it and then it opens up the floodgates and it's like, it doesn't stop. And I appreciate you clarifying though, and like, we will get to that in a little bit of like, you are the victim here. Could you not have pressed charges on this kid?

• 21:43Speaker 01

  I could have, um, I think. But I feel like maybe this is a downfall of to me, but I look at it as a, I guess, good thing, even though maybe there are people in my life who should be held accountable for things. I just feel like we were so young and he was a young boy and he was fourteen, fifteen years old himself. I just, as much as I was hurt, I don't, I don't know, I don't hold it against him and maybe that's wrong, but I just don't think, I don't think that he's evil. I think that the people who are evil are the people who, he didn't post it on the internet. I think he saved it to show his guy friends and look and act cool, which is wrong and not saying that that's okay at all. But he was so young, I think he was just like, look, like, hot girl sending me nudes.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  I really just don't think it was malicious and that's been something that I've had to come to that place because I have seen people do evil shit. I've had people in the last, so on my twenty first birthday was when I like posted on International Women's Day saying sort of like I take back the anxiety and the shame that I felt all these years and I don't let, I'm not letting anyone control me because I had someone threatening me at that time being like, I'm gonna leak this, you're a whore, everyone's gonna know, all this stuff. And that was, to me, like, that is a malicious person that is trying to use like revenge porn.

• 22:57Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  I don't think that the guy who did this was doing that to me and I know people are gonna be like, that's crazy.

• 23:03Alex Cooper?

  No, no, no, I, to back you up there, at first I will say my jaw dropped a little bit.

• 23:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, I know.

• 23:08Alex Cooper?

  Fuck that motherfucker, he should be in jail. I get what you're saying. Again, we're having a conversation about minors. So I think it's like, I get what you're saying where there is also a bro culture that has been instilled of him being able to puff his chest around the kids in elementary school, middle school, high school to be like, look, I got these nudes. But it wasn't his intent to then be like, I want the world to see this. There was no, again, this is though a fucking PSA to any men or young boys listening, like, this can ruin someone's fucking life.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  Many girls have committed suicide over this. I attempted to over this. This was something that was like weighing on me for years and years of just like. It just also was like, I felt so betrayed and like not even by, yes, by him, but also by like, a girl was the person who first uploaded it. I know for a fact because we like traced. I had to hire, so also I discussed this in my book. I had to hire a web sheriff is something that I didn't even know existed. Out of my own money, every dollar I'd earned up until that point in my career, I then spent on clearing this and scrubbing it from the internet and something that I want to like bring this conversation back to is that I am hopeful that now the internet would protect a fourteen, fifteen year old girl who had something like

• 24:23Speaker 01

  this happen. I think it would be removed on TikTok instantaneously, removed on Twitter instantaneously. I didn't get that privilege and I think it was just a different time in 2014 and people had little to no compassion for me specifically. And yeah, I sort of just got the sharp end of the stick that was like really difficult and it was spreading on, I remember specifically Twitter and Vine like wildfire and just people, not one person was like, isn't this girl a minor? Isn't she really young? Like no one said that. It was horrible.

• 24:57Alex Cooper?

  Okay, also to just people that

• 25:02Alex Cooper?

  weren't obviously there, had to read this, like, can you remember like what was being said on the internet about you at that time?

• 25:11Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, of course, so much endless like sexualization of just even grown men participating in the conversation of like, oh, I want to fuck her and she looks so hot and this and that and it's, it's funny when you, obviously when you're young, you don't realize how young you really are. And so I didn't at the time, I knew it was inappropriate, but I wasn't as shocked and disgusted as I am now. But I do remember warning for the graphicness. I remember there was a video that I saw and it's one of those things that like, once you click it, like it's, you're like sort of in this trance of like, oh my God. This guy had a, had the video, one of them.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  On his TV in his room and had like a sex doll and he was just like having aggressive sex with this sex doll while watching this video of me of a 14 year old little girl and it was a grown man like visibly a grown adult. And I remember just like first of all, being reminded of being sexually abused as a child and I was like, I just, I couldn't like take my eyes off of it because of how shocking it was. That was also like the day I discovered what like being triggered was. Um, and I was just, it was, I had so many feelings and emotions of like just like that image will never leave my head. I was so disturbed by it and so afraid. I felt so unsafe and just like scared and

• 26:36Speaker 01

  there were so many layers of like peeling the onion of that of how that made me feel and again, like just no, no one's saying that it was wrong.

• 26:46Alex Cooper?

  There's so many things to unpack.

• 26:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a lot.

• 27:06Alex Cooper?

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• 27:48Alex Cooper?

  but recognizing what they are and learning how to let them go can be so important. It's literally the first step towards creating meaningful change and therapy with BetterHelp, one of the leading online therapy platforms. Can be a space to explore where those patterns come from and develop healthier habits and mindsets for a more fulfilling life. With over 30,000 therapists worldwide, BetterHelp has served millions of people globally. BetterHelp makes it easier to fit therapy into your routine with flexible ways to connect that work for different schedules and lifestyles. Plus, BetterHelp therapists have at least three years and 1,000 hours on hand experience and hold all required education, training, and certifications.

• 28:30Alex Cooper?

  You can meet with a range of professionals from marriage and family therapists to social workers and counselors. So Daddy Gang, if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/daddy. That's betterh-e-l-p.com/daddy. You talk about in your memoir, kind of how like all of these people are online. They're calling you a whore, they're slut shaming you, they're talking about you, you're a minor. Yeah. I also vividly remember the scene, it like made me want to vomit of, it could have been like a 45-year-old man or like a full-grown man

• 29:14Alex Cooper?

  getting off to you, again, as a fucking minor. Yep. And Henry, sit down. Come here, Henry. Oh, he goes back.

• 29:26Alex Cooper?

  You mentioned in the book that you were abused as a child. And I thought it was really sad, but like insightful to hear you talk about like these comments that were being said to you, of course, they were so hurtful, but what people didn't understand was how fucking painful they were for you to be called a slut and a whore. Yeah. And yet, you are looking at yourself, barely have ever been in a sexual relationship at this point in your life. Yeah. Can you go back a little to your childhood and and as much as you're comfortable sharing like?

• 30:06Alex Cooper?

  How how did you like handle what happened to you and like how old were you?

• 30:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that I never have spoken about anything like this up until now because I just didn't feel like there was a platform or a place to do it that felt appropriate. And that's why I felt like the book was a great place to do it. And I didn't want to go too much in detail because you can't really put a trigger warning on a book. So I just wanted to sort of like allude to that.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Well, okay, so firstly, yeah, there was, you know, someone in in my childhood that was around me frequently. That sort of would that I had an inappropriate relationship with very early on. Um, I would say like

• 30:43Speaker 01

  pro- probably, I don't even know, I would say maybe six, seven, I I'm not sure it sort of began and.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  I've also like I want to say like I've come to peace with this because I feel like in talking in person with some people about this, I've been able to create, I've been able to like join this community of women specifically that I feel really proud to like stand amongst genuinely. So I remember feeling really dirty um after like all of anything I would endure, whether it was like whatever it was, and I just remember like feeling like I had done something wrong, not being able to fully articulate what um. I don't know, I feel like I just look back and being someone who had gone through all of this so privately, whereas like my own family didn't even know about this until, I mean,

• 31:38Speaker 01

  this might be news to like some people in my family, but my like my mom, I didn't even tell my mom till years later.

• 31:43Alex Cooper?

  Who was the first person you told?

• 31:47Speaker 01

  Man, um. My ex-boyfriend was the first person I told. I think like ever. Um, I sort of also blocked it out for a really long time and I didn't want to accept that it had happened. Dating that person and having like everyone on the online, you know, call me names like a slut or a whore and stuff. When in reality, um, he was the first person who ever laid a finger on me consensually for a fact. And it was really difficult to have people, especially like people who would speculate about, you know, all the other guys that I had in theory hooked up with, when they were actually just my friends. I never, um, hooked up with any of them. I might've like kissed one or two of them, but that was like the extent of it.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  And people were just like, oh, she slept with all of them and she did this. And I'm like, whoa, you guys don't even know. It took me so long to like have sex with my first boyfriend because I was so afraid and like traumatized. So it just, it just goes to show that people really have no idea what the fuck they're talking about.

• 32:50Alex Cooper?

  No, I, I agree. It's like, there was such like this like sexualization of you on the internet. Like I remember doing research for this, like looking up that first kind of public relationship that you had. And this kid had a following and you had a following. Again, how old were you? Like?

• 33:06Speaker 01

  Fifteen when we started dating.

• 33:07Alex Cooper?

  Okay. And so it's like, we have this incident, which I do want to go back to because I do think sadly so many women actually experience revenge porn and blackmail. But then you have this multiple moments where you're then dating this kid. And there's people on the internet slut shaming you being like, she's a whore. She's fucked his friends. Again, as a child, having been abused, then having the most violating experience with your nudes. And then having people look at your like romantic relationship. None of this is any accountability to any man in any of these situations. It's you.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:45Alex Cooper?

  You and your body and like the fixation on you. It's so fucking sick. And it like, it makes me so upset because again, it's like, and I not back to the kid that released your nudes, but it is kind of like. Where is any accountability for any men in this situation?

• 34:01Speaker 01

  Well, in this society, we don't hold men accountable. It's like even have you been seeing this like whatever, whenever there's like a girl who posts sexual things online, they're like fatherless behavior. I'm like, why are you blaming the girl if she doesn't have a father? Why are we not blaming a father who walked out on their child potentially? Question marks.

• 34:18Alex Cooper?

  It's full question mark.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  It's just always like, it's how I think it's, it's just, and I think there's things like that that we've become so accustomed to that we don't even realize these, these are men who will comment like fatherless behavior. And I'm like, do you not realize that you're like, you're saying something horrible. Like the call is coming from within the fucking house. What are we talking about? Why are you blaming a girl? You're saying, okay, so you're, you're, you're saying that this girl turned out this way, which you're again portraying as negative, yet you're also addicted to fucking porn. And like, let's not even get into that. So you're gonna, you're gonna then blame and shame a girl who's posting with like her boobs looking whatever and say fatherless behavior, but we're not going to talk about the fact that you're not discussing that maybe a parent actually did walk out on this little girl and that's horrible.

• 35:04Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  Like what the fuck are you saying? I'm sorry.

• 35:06Alex Cooper?

  No, no, no, it's fine. No, I get upset too. Cause it's like back to this whole exploitation of your life.

• 35:13Alex Cooper?

  I guess I didn't ask you like, how, how did you tell your family when all of this was going down?

• 35:19Speaker 01

  It's like another really fucked up story that like you actually won't even believe sometimes. And I have to laugh at this point because I'm like, my ex-boyfriend's Snapchat got hacked. And I'm on FaceTime with him and I'm like, hey babe, why are you typing to me on Snapchat? Cause it sends you a notification when you're typing. And he's like, I'm not. And he goes and opens Snapchat and he's logged out. Our conversation about a week prior that we used to save all of our conversations, like it's even if they were ones that we wanted to delete, we would save them, whatever. So he types to me a message that says, basically I hacked this person's Snapchat and I know that you were R-worded and I'm going to tell the entire internet if you don't follow me on Instagram and like do X, Y, and Z. And I was like,

• 36:06Speaker 01

  What the fuck? And I'd only told him this in person like a couple of months prior, but we were talking about it on Snapchat that something had happened. I forget what obviously that upset me. And I was just talking to him about like, you know, because this happened, I feel really upset and da da da. And I was now being threatened to release, basically to, to do things, to shout this person out on Instagram and to do things online to benefit this guy or else he was going to leak this information to the public. So in that moment, I was like, well, this isn't how I want my mom to find out. So I had to call my mom and be like, hey, something might end up on the internet that I think you should know. Yeah. That's why I just laugh because I'm like-

• 36:44Alex Cooper?

  Madison.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  It's just crazy. I know.

• 36:46Alex Cooper?

  We, and, and that-

• 36:47Speaker 01

  Unreal.

• 36:48Alex Cooper?

  Sorry to confirm, that was over the nudes or the sexual abuse when you were younger?

• 36:51Speaker 01

  No, that was, yeah, that was over the sexual abuse when I was younger. Was literally someone threatening to leak it online and my, my mother had no idea that I ever endured any of that. So I literally had to call her on the phone. What the fuck? I just can't.

• 37:04Alex Cooper?

  No, I get what you mean though. You almost have to like laugh through it because I obviously know-

• 37:10Speaker 01

  I've cried enough.

• 37:11Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  I've cried enough.

• 37:12Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  My whole like past 10 years have been, not even my past 24 years have been filled with tears that I'm like, I'm at the point where I've just accepted things and I'm just like, I feel like I've made lemonade out of lemons and I feel like I'm a good person and I feel like in a fucked up way, all of these experiences have shaped me to be better. But I'm like, oh. I also want to say that like, there's, there's, I think that because I'm coming across like lighthearted about this, I obviously want to say that this is something with like extensive therapy that I've been able to have the perspective of like, I do believe, I don't want to say everything happens for a reason because the biggest thing I say in my book is that just because I endured these things and turned out okay. And I was able to turn these things into, oh, in the most fucked up way, a positive.

• 37:57Speaker 01

  It doesn't mean I should have had to go through them and that's been the biggest thing with therapy that I've learned is being able to tell myself like you didn't deserve these things and just because you've done just because you've shouldered them gracefully and you've been able to like survive doesn't mean you should have gone through them just because you're able to talk about it and hopefully help other people does not fucking mean that anyone nor myself should have gone through these things. So that's something that I've been able to just like give myself. So I want anyone watching or listening to know that I'm at peace with these things, but I still like literally two nights ago I was so triggered and so upset about something that happened that I like was dissociating and didn't know where I was and was like very afraid and felt like a little girl again. Like I have a lot of issues still that I'm very much so working through. So I don't want people to think I'm just like haha okay about it. I just can't um

• 38:42Speaker 01

  yeah, I just I just can't like break down and cry about it every time because I'm just at a place where I'm like you know, it yeah, it is. It sort of is what it is.

• 38:50Alex Cooper?

  What? You don't have to tell me. You can be like next, but like can you, do you mind sharing like what is it that would trigger you like the other day? Like what makes you dissociate and go into a different place?

• 39:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a few things um

• 39:06Speaker 01

  I'm really petrified of the dark, which I have a hard time saying publicly because I feel like the paranoia, I have also horrible paranoia, which as you can see why um the paranoia and me think someone's gonna purposely do that to me and put me in a dark room or a dark place and just like want to see me suffer um so that's like why I've never really talked about it, but I also discussed in the book like on tour will have the obviously we have blackouts after every song. I had to do like submersion therapy almost where I was like I had to like work myself up to going from like a point five second blackout to a three second blackout and being able to sort of be okay in those moments.

• 39:47Speaker 01

  And I had to literally like submerge myself in it and like get through that. And that was something I worked on with my therapist before I went on tour. Um, and now I have this like simple yet effective thing where like I just I like sort of do this and it helps like ground me. It's weird. Um, and I also people don't really see, but when I do have a blackout, there will be people on both sides of the stage with some form of form of light that just helps remind me where I am because I can just get like lost in it. And sometimes I'll feel like I'm in, you know, the place that I was. abused and whatnot so I just need something to kind of ground me whether it's like okay I'm here I'm at my show I hear my fans screaming I'm okay or like looking to the side of the stage and seeing like there's a there's one song I have called Sour Times that has like quite a long blackout at the beginning at my concert

• 40:31Speaker 01

  and if you like look at videos you'll sort of always see me looking off to the left or right at my dancers because if I know people are there I'm okay

• 40:39Alex Cooper?

  yeah

• 40:39Speaker 01

  um but I have such an amazing what's helped me so much is I have such amazing friends and family and relationships with people that like for example when I go to like Universal if I'm in a dark ride someone will just hold my hand and be like I'm here with you and it's okay and it's so nice and to have people that just sort of don't make it like oh she's so dramatic or she doesn't because I'm not gonna also go into depth and explain to everyone what happened or hey just let letting everyone know I'm really scared of the dark and don't ask why it's just not something I care to really make public or talk about so it's really nice when I have someone who's able to just

• 41:13Alex Cooper?

  yeah

• 41:14Speaker 01

  be like hey I'm here and you're good

• 41:15Alex Cooper?

  one I appreciate and like we are like talking like in bits like people have to go read your book because like you did such an incredible job bringing us through everything you've been through but the amount of women that have had some type of sexual violence or sexual abuse like is there anything that has specifically helped you cope that you could share with people that are also kind of in this like really deep healing journey right now and trying to find a way to keep going

• 41:50Speaker 01

  I mean there's so many things I can say I think that there's yeah there's like endless things I can talk about I think everyone's also situation is very specific to them so it's hard to give like a marginalized like this helped me I know that like setting boundaries it sounds vague but that's been super huge for me is just being able to be like hey I'm uncomfortable with the topic of discussion here or like I don't want to be in this room or that person makes me uncomfortable like just little things like that and being able to I always say be your own best friend and look out for yourself the same way you would look out for your best friend um is really helpful and I think just being patient it took me years and years to be able to even discuss discuss this like I think that anyone who's a fan of mine is gonna be like what we had no idea and I've been very open and candid about

• 42:36Speaker 01

  a lot of things that I've gone through um but this has never been something that I've been ready to talk about and Yeah, it's just, I don't know, it's all, it's all a journey. There's no right answer. There's nothing that anyone could say to like, make it okay, or go away. And I think just, yeah, I don't know. Hopefully, like wishing anyone who's listening to find peace someday. It's, it's really hard and it's, I don't know, there's, there's no, there's literally nothing I can say. It's like very difficult. Yeah.

• 43:06Alex Cooper?

  You mentioned while you were talking about everything with what happened with the nudes, which I think is like very fucking important to talk about is people behind computer screens have fucking forgotten on their little fake accounts, or even their main accounts, if they are like shameless. They have like, we have forgotten, even if you're posting something that's like funny, and then you're like, was that insensitive? We have forgotten because social media has completely desensitized us. How hurtful things can be. And it, there is not even like enough hours in the day for us to have this conversation, but you just said casually, you were like, and that also led me to

• 43:50Alex Cooper?

  attempting to take my own life and like,

• 43:55Alex Cooper?

  and I, I just want to talk about that for a minute because it's like, it's so fucking real. You fucking lived it and you can talk about it, but it's like, we have to talk about it because like, people need to fucking realize what their words can do. And so you sitting there by yourself as a minor, going through this shit, like, it's so sick, like, can you try to articulate and it's not your job to like right the wrongs of people, but maybe there's someone listening that will like never write a negative comment again because like, you're someone sitting here that has endured so much online bullying, like, where do, where do you go when those type of comments come on your feed and come on your posts?

• 44:35Speaker 01

  I think that it's something that I still unfortunately struggle with, which should speak volumes to anyone out there who, you know, I don't wanna say is a hater, but is a hater. Um, not only to me, to anyone. Um, it's been over ten years and I still have not gotten used to it. I recently like walked a carpet and people just had like a million negative things to say about like my body and like how I looked and it was like really hurtful and I had a panic attack about it and so um, I think again, it's something that you never get used to. I was raised because I was raised in the industry to be told and to tell people it doesn't affect you and you're strong and it was sort of and it was, it was done with the right intention, I believe of

• 45:17Speaker 01

  if you wanna be a good role model for your fans and let them like think that you're this strong individual that doesn't let things get to them, which is what I want my fans to think and people who look up to me, whatever. Um, but it felt so

• 45:32Speaker 01

  disingenuous to me and I was like, it does get to me though and I spend every night crying my eyes out because people are so vicious that I don't feel right when an interviewer is like, how do you deal with hate? I'm like, it doesn't affect me. I'm, it's fine. I was like, this needs to be something that I'm honest about. So I just stopped with that nonsense because I felt like it was really silly and I felt like I owed it to people to know that their words hurt and even if that's honestly what they wanted to hear because some of them probably got satisfaction hearing that I was affected by their words, but it's important. I think it's never gonna end. I think people should know that your words have power. I think that people's digital footprints should be more serious that say things like

• 46:13Speaker 01

  kill yourself to people and you know, there's also people who I've spoken to who haven't ever dealt with it who are like, just turn your phone off. Why do you even read it? I'm like, it's not that simple and especially someone like me who has been unfortunately scrolling and scrolling through hate comments since I was twelve years old. It's become like part of my nature to seek out what people have to say about me. And it's been something, because I'm also just like being completely genuine, I'm someone who does care about what people think about me. Like I pride myself on being a kind individual who has a good heart that like wants to make people feel good. I, I, I think that that's what life is about and I want people to be happy when they're around me and I, whatever the fuck it is like. That's something that's really important to me and has been deeply ingrained in me as a

• 46:54Speaker 01

  human being. So when I read tens of thousands of comments of people saying things that I know are so far from the truth about me and my character, it bothers me and I can't help but look and I can't help but be upset by it and it sucks and I wish I didn't care, but I do.

• 47:10Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, that was something in your book that I was like, fuck, this is dark because it was like you were like at that age at 15, 14, when those were released, you were like, I was using all of my money to have this person try to get them off the internet, but you were personally going through each website, each forum, getting the link and sending them to this guy. So you are having to watch the man jerking off, fucking the doll, you were seeing everything and to have that level of violation to then paranoia and then to have to read every fucking comment like and looking like, what do they say? What do they say? I don't think under people understand like,

• 47:52Alex Cooper?

  I understand it's like, oh, woe is you. You choose this life. If there was a fucking forum, I want everyone to pause for a minute. If there was a forum that you knew, you're sitting at home right now, if you knew someone was writing things about you, 10 out of 10 times you're fucking clicking.

• 48:08Speaker 01

  Well, it's funny because I'll have like friends of mine who will say like similar things of like, well, you know, you sort of like chose this and if you can't handle it, you shouldn't be in your your position. I'm like, well, why does being in my position mean I have to endure abuse?

• 48:20Alex Cooper?

  You talked about this red carpet moment and I feel like there's so many people that are so fucking fascinated by your looks and your body and what you are doing and people have so much to say about it. It's like, fuck you. You look perfect. Fuck you. You're setting an unrealistic beauty standard. There's all these people, but I'm like, okay, let's pause for five seconds about like what anyone else fucking thinks. How do you feel about your body image and your sexuality now?

• 48:48Speaker 01

  I think that it's It's very hard. I mean, it was something that was scrutinized publicly for so long. But it's again, it goes into, I think, being a woman and people objectifying you and looking at you as just a pretty face and nothing more. And if you ask a man to name three women who inspire him, like, he probably is gonna have a very difficult time doing so. And obviously, there are some men who can. There are a lot of men who can't. And I think that society in general objectifies women and makes them to be not talented enough, not smart enough, not good enough, not articulate enough. And I just, I don't know, I feel like it does sort of like feed into all of it. I feel like it's interlocked in this weird misogynistic way. And I don't know.

• 49:30Alex Cooper?

  No, I, I completely agree. I think like, listening to everything that you've said, reading your memoir, like, it feels really disheartening of like, the lack of protection you had as a young girl, the exploitation, the violation. And there's this like, sense of entitlement that men have over women and our bodies. And we essentially come into this world and it almost feels like we have no autonomy over our bodies.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  None.

• 50:04Alex Cooper?

  Look at the fucking abortion issue we just dealt with. Like, it is really sad. And I think, and you don't have to comment on this, but like, it's the truth. Then there's a different level also for like, a very attractive woman. Like, we just watched the Pamela Anderson doc. And it's like, the world also believes, listen, the world believes that if you're a pretty woman, like, they're entitled to look and, and get off to and stare at your body. And it's so dehumanizing. And it is also completely stripping you of your ability to feel like you're going to be seen and heard for what you've been through.

• 50:46Alex Cooper?

  And it is like, I fucking hate everyone.

• 50:50Speaker 01

  It's really difficult.

• 50:51Alex Cooper?

  I wanna like scream when I have this conversation.

• 50:53Speaker 01

  Scream all the time, all hours of the day.

• 50:56Alex Cooper?

  It's, it's, it's awful.

• 50:58Speaker 01

  I just don't think that men ever get that same level of like- Objectification of like, you're just something pretty to look at. And I'm like, but I feel like I have a lot to show that isn't just that.

• 51:07Alex Cooper?

  It's always the

• 51:08Speaker 01

  I'm like, I have a platinum single.

• 51:09Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  The fuck?

• 51:10Alex Cooper?

  Thank you. It's like, oh, God, she seems angry. I am. I am angry.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  Literally generational.

• 51:16Alex Cooper?

  And we're two white women sitting here. So it's like the fucking layers that go underneath it of like

• 51:21Speaker 01

  Never ending.

• 51:22Alex Cooper?

  Women, minorities, underprivileged, like

• 51:24Speaker 01

  It's never ending.

• 51:25Alex Cooper?

  It's never ending. So everyone that has a penis listening to this, just fucking hear us a little bit today.

• 51:30Speaker 01

  Seriously.

• 51:47Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Southern New Hampshire University. Daddy gang, let's get real, okay? We like to make our own rules. Southern New Hampshire University gets it. They let you learn what you want with over 200 career-focused programs, where you want with 100% online courses, and how you want with no set class times. Basically, you get to call the shots from day one. Visit s n h u dot edu slash call her daddy to learn more. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Pandora Jewelry. Make their holiday unforgettable with a gift that says it all from Pandora Jewelry. I feel like the best gifts are always the ones that feel really personal, right?

• 52:31Alex Cooper?

  Like, anyone can buy you something nice, but when someone gives you a gift that is actually meaningful, you appreciate it so much more. And that's what I do love about Pandora. They have so many pieces that you can really just make your own from festive charms to personalized engravings and jewelry that can represent the people and the moments that mean the most to you. So whether you're shopping for your partner or your mom, your best friend, you can find something that really is specific to them. Maybe it's a charm that makes you think of the trip that you guys took together once, or maybe it's an engraving for your anniversary, or just a piece that feels like them the second you see it. Pandora makes it so easy to give a gift that feels thoughtful and personal and makes

• 53:15Alex Cooper?

  every holiday moment even more meaningful and special because at the end of the day, the best gifts aren't just about the piece itself, but it's the intention and the story behind them. Say more this holiday season with Pandora. Shop now at pandora.net or visit your closest Pandora store. In your memoir, you write, and I just think it's important to read this because a lot of what we've talked about, this is an interesting summation of how you wrote this. You said, "It feels like my entire life's journey thus far has been a perfectly crafted cocktail of situations that landed me at this borderline personality diagnosis, as if my biography

• 53:57Alex Cooper?

  could be written and titled, 'How to Give Someone BPD: A Step-by-Step Guide.'"

• 54:04Alex Cooper?

  What do you want people to understand from you writing that?

• 54:08Speaker 01

  I think that when I read, you know, when you read something about like your astrological sign, you're like, "That's so me." I feel like when I first discovered not only what BPD was, but how one can become diagnosed with it, or what the things that have to sort of happen to a young, developing mind in order to whatever, I literally was like, "This feels scripted." It felt humorous to me because I was like, "This is just such a recipe for disaster, honestly." And I just, I knew, I knew that it was the right diagnosis for me when I was diagnosed with it because of course, it just felt so right. But I just, yeah, I couldn't, it just felt like I was like, "Was this the goal in my life was for

• 54:49Speaker 01

  people to like, give me this disorder? I don't understand it." So, yeah, I don't, I don't know. It's very, it's very strange.

• 54:58Alex Cooper?

  I mean, there's so many different stigmas around so many different mental health disorders or, you know, things people are going through. But like specifically with BPD, I think there's such a lack of education around this topic. And I do appreciate you saying like, How to give someone BPD, like not that any mental health disorder is anyone's fault, but this is not something you were born with, like this happened to you.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, develops.

• 55:23Alex Cooper?

  And it develops through trauma and childhood. And so like, I appreciate you writing this because it's like, let's have a little fucking empathy and compassion when someone says that they are struggling or they have BPD. Like, that's actually such a great way to start a conversation with someone of like, I'm here for you. Like, I want to listen to you. I want to understand you. I want to understand what you've been through. Like, you're not a bad fucking person. You're a wonderful person with a great heart and you had a lot of fucking shit happen to you. But like, I just felt like the way that you wrote it, people don't understand it. And I really appreciated the way that you said that of like, how to give someone it, like this shit happened to you. But you're alive and you're here and you've like powered through.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  Thankfully, yeah. And it's, it's, I really appreciate you saying that. It's just hard to, it's hard to like, think about my younger self. Sometimes I get really emotional about it because I just feel like I, of course, I'm really grateful for the place that I'm in and I'm really grateful for like the insight that I've been given and all of that stuff. But I just, I think about my younger self who,

• 56:27Speaker 01

  it just, I, I don't, yeah, there was so many times where it felt like the only way out was to end it and I just, I don't know. I just feel like I am grateful for sure for everything because I feel like I wouldn't be the person I am today if literally everything didn't happen. But it's hard to come to terms with a lot of these things and I, it's hard to not feel bitter, I think, towards people. Because, and, and that's the biggest thing that like my therapist who's amazing always says to me and she's like, I'm so glad that you've never turned cold to people and you're still like warm and fuzzy and friendly and you want to be friends with everyone. And you still have like faith in people, but it's, it's a lot. It's hard. It's a hard journey.

• 57:10Alex Cooper?

  I'm happy I read the book because

• 57:12Speaker 01

  I am too.

• 57:12Alex Cooper?

  Again, you, there are so many good things in your life and there's really hard moments. And you write about a lot of heavy stuff in here about like multiple times thinking about or trying to take your life.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:27Alex Cooper?

  And in the summer of 2019, you wrote about how it was like the best part of your career. You were at a career high, but like personally you had never been lower.

• 57:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:38Alex Cooper?

  What were you going through?

• 57:41Speaker 01

  That was the year that I started to really face everything that had happened to me in my younger years, whether it's like coming to terms that so many people have the wrong idea of me or the sexual abuse or people have naked pictures of me. There were so many things that I felt like were just like really catching up with me. I also, that was the age that I started to feel a lot of guilt around my little brother. Um, because I feel like I sort of uprooted and changed his life without him having any say over it and I still feel guilt surrounding that to this day because I know how it was to get my childhood sort of taken from me in ways that he didn't even have a choice. It was like you're just along for the ride and I feel so sorry for that to this day. Um, so that was a lot and I had a lot of things just like

• 58:25Speaker 01

  really, really weighing on me heavily for so long and I just felt like I was I just felt like also nothing would ever change. I felt like I would live in this sort of like begging to be seen place for the rest of my life. I was like, I'm never, no one's ever gonna know me and I'm never gonna have a real friendship and I'm always gonna be like betrayed or like blackmailed and just so many endless things. I'm also, I'm never gonna be a successful artist. There was so many things weighing on me that I really I started self harming again, which I had been clean for a while. And so that was again, something that was like, oh, you're weak and you did the wrong thing and whatever. So I just felt

• 59:05Speaker 01

  like it was something I'd been thinking about for a really long time. I also always said to people and this is like horrible and dark, but probably from like starting at like fifteen, I would always tell people, because you know, we have this conversation, do you have any idea of like how you think you're gonna die? I would always say, I know I'm gonna die from suicide. I know.

• 59:24Speaker 01

  And now that makes me so sad because I just think about that like child who was just hurting and felt like she was screaming into a void all the time and no one cared to listen and that just makes me really sad and I wish I can hug her. I thought that everyone on the fucking face of this earth would have rathered me dead. And so I just, I, I did attempt, um, twice. Um, and yeah, I'm really grateful that I was obviously unsuccessful, but I think people need to understand that like it's really serious and not something to joke about and I just like my life was almost over, like I almost died.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  I almost was dead because of all of this. And it's a lot to comprehend. It's a lot for me to think about. It's a lot for me to accept that people made me feel that way. People kicked me while I was down and just like did not give a fuck, did not look at me as human at all. I would think about the tweets that would be posted the next day. People like laughing and making fun of the fact that I was dead. And I knew it would happen. That was the sickest part was like I I I still know to this day that if it happened, people would joke about it because I've seen people joke about the most horrible things ever online. Um, and I think it all just ties back into the fact of like, I just hope for a day of like people having empathy and people not judging each other and being able to be kind and loving, um.

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  But I still like, I I I definitely don't feel like I have this like suicidal ideation thing and in me anymore, but I still have really, really horrible, dark days like to this fucking day that I just feel defeated and I just, there's so much grieving I do for my younger self and there's so much like I I am a bit angry a little towards the internet in some ways. I feel like I never got an apology from a lot of people. I don't know. I feel like I'm still also like made fun of all the time. I'll talk in a video and people be like, she's so cringy and embarrassing.

• 1:01:17Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, like, does it make you, does it make you nervous?

• 1:01:19Speaker 01

  I never want to talk ever again.

• 1:01:21Alex Cooper?

  No, but I'm I'm wondering like, will you have anxiety before this comes out?

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  Oh, a hundred. I'm like already like, can we restart? Like literally, like it's, I'm like, I'm like, no, it's how I am.

• 1:01:31Alex Cooper?

  But that is why I do appreciate podcasting because I'm like,

• 1:01:34Speaker 01

  I wish people were just nice. It's like so, it's so crazy. That's like a huge ask of people. Can you just be nice and like not?

• 1:01:40Alex Cooper?

  Like, we're going through it. Like, listen to what you're going through.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  I'm in pain. Please stop. It's just too much.

• 1:01:46Alex Cooper?

  You are currently in a relationship.

• 1:01:48Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:01:48Alex Cooper?

  We don't need to talk about your relationship, but I do want to know about you in relationships, dealing with everything that you're going through. And it seems like, again, you said 2019 was how when you kind of really started to break in to everything that happened to you. And I also want to say like, People that are gonna start therapy, like it is a motherfucker at first to open up Pandora's box and be like,

• 1:02:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:12Alex Cooper?

  Whoa.

• 1:02:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:13Alex Cooper?

  But when you finally even get a little bit on that other side of like,

• 1:02:18Speaker 01

  It's the best.

• 1:02:18Alex Cooper?

  It's the best. And you find a reason to live and you find like a perspective that you could have never had.

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:02:25Alex Cooper?

  When you're in a relationship and you're going through all of this, like, how does having a partner and having to have someone in your life and be, you know, in this dynamic where you have to be not selfish all the time and not focusing on yourself, like, how does that affect your mental health of being in a relationship while you're going through this mental health journey?

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  I think there's two sides of the coin. I think on side A, I recognize that I've become definitely very codependent. I've had three now long-term relationships in my life, back to back. I've like really never been single. I've just been like in very serious relationships. I think that is because of my deep rooted abandonment issues and attachment style and whatever, and I am working through that. Um, but I think on the other side, it's been amazing and I feel like I've been able to, obviously breakups are really hard, but I think in all three of my relationships, I look back and I feel, you know, a lot of support at times from those people and especially in my current one, like I feel,

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  um, yeah, supported and I feel like taken care of in, in a way that I can break down and like I have someone to lean on and I, I, I think it's important.

• 1:03:33Alex Cooper?

  What's a red flag in dating that you used to ignore? That you would now, if you saw it, you would like run the other direction, like you used to put up with, but you're like, nope, not now, bitch.

• 1:03:43Speaker 01

  Um, there's a lot.

• 1:03:45Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:03:45Speaker 01

  First being when guys, I know this is so basic, but when guys say like, my ex-girlfriend is so crazy. I'm like, oh, so you were horrible and you don't want to be accountable is what you're trying to say?

• 1:03:55Alex Cooper?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:03:56Speaker 01

  Cool. So that I don't like at all. I feel like also. It's just, it's just like, you can't convince me that your ex-girlfriend was just like crazy for no reason. Like, you definitely caused her to be that way. So, I don't really give a fuck what you have to say about yourself.

• 1:04:12Alex Cooper?

  It's your fault.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  It just drives me insane. And I've heard people say it, and it won't even be like, forget red flag in dating. Like, if, if I'm in a room of boys and they're like talking about, even a girl they've like slept with in a negative way, I'm like, twitching. I'm sitting there like, are you fucking joking right now? Who raised you? But yeah, I hate, I especially can't handle it in a guy who's like, my, my crazy ex-girlfriend. I'm like, sir. Um, but other than that, I think that someone who like, oof, I don't know. There's so many things I can say. I think hygiene is like huge. Brush your teeth, please. I'm begging you. Please brush your teeth.

• 1:04:51Alex Cooper?

  We just went from like crazy ex-girlfriend, like hygiene, Alex, like it is through.

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  Wash your hair.

• 1:04:56Alex Cooper?

  It's been three weeks.

• 1:04:58Speaker 01

  Please. I'm begging you. I'm literally begging. I'm dead. How, that's the last thing I thought you would say.

• 1:05:09Alex Cooper?

  It's true, please, please.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  Okay, hygiene, and when someone says their, hygiene, and when someone says their ex-girlfriend is crazy, I don't believe you for a fucking second.

• 1:05:21Alex Cooper?

  Something that I love to do on Call Her Dottie is like, if there are rumors, or if there have been like anything kinda out there that people are like speculating, I'm like, let's just get to the bottom of it.

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:05:33Alex Cooper?

  People are so fucking confused. Like, this video came out that Justin posted of you, and there's so much controversy on the internet of like, you may have had connections to him and people before. And I'm like, who cares if that's the case?

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  Like, right.

• 1:05:46Alex Cooper?

  In any way, shape or form, did you have or anyone in your family or anyone know anyone in Justin's camp? And it wasn't like a random thing that he stumbled upon you on YouTube?

• 1:05:57Speaker 01

  Definitely no correlation to Justin. I was Justin's biggest, biggest fan. Let me make that very abundantly clear. He was my lock screen when I met Scooter. I was like crying my eyes out screaming when Scooter played me boyfriend the day that he signed me. Like, I, there's a lot of things, but all I like, at this point, like the truth is all that I really care to talk about because I think that it just doesn't matter at this point. It's 10 years ago. So literally to break it down quite simply, my mom and dad have no music industry correlation. My mom was an interior designer. My dad was a builder. Like, it just was not part of our life. Um, the only person that my mom knew as I was younger that sort of had an in with those people was a guy who owns cash, like the restaurants.

• 1:06:40Alex Cooper?

  Got it.

• 1:06:41Speaker 01

  Which for those of you who don't know are like LA, New York hotspot restaurants. And she sort of knew him and she, being a proud mom, posted my YouTube video to her Facebook and was texting all her friends, like, you know, who, who could get my daughter, like audition somewhere? Like she, my dream was to be on Broadway. That was like my number one dream. So she was like, who can help my daughter, whatever. So she messaged this guy Mark and was like, do you know anyone who maybe would want to like, I don't even know. Like, we didn't even know at the time, like what the verbiage was or what the goal was. It was more so just like, clearly I was a kid who loved to sing and what can we do with this?

• 1:07:12Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:07:13Speaker 01

  People also have this idea that my mom knew Scooter personally because there's a picture that, this is also, I have to again contextualize, peak of me being like hated online when I was like 16 years old. This rumor began to spread and there's a picture of some woman with Scooter when, in like college and people are like, this is Madison's mom and Scooter Braun in college. My mom's like 15 years older than Scooter, mind you. And also like we, it's just that, that's just not true. And at this point, I would just say, yeah, that he, she did. People have this idea that like you can buy your way. Like I, my dad like wrote him a check and was like, sign my daughter. You know how many kids would be?

• 1:07:51Alex Cooper?

  Famous.

• 1:07:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I just, it's just not, it's just not true. And it's, it's quite silly. And I think that obviously also what's Scooter Braun, who had Justin Bieber as his artist, you think he really like needed to sign little Madison Beer from the island? Like it also didn't work out. So it wasn't like, you know? So I just, um. Yeah, so basically to make a long story short, Mark ended up connecting us with Scooter, who then showed to Justin, and that's how it all happened. And it was just quite simple, and it was all very cool for me and very exciting. Twelve year old me, I was just excited that Justin Bieber watched one of my videos.

• 1:08:23Alex Cooper?

  Right. Also, it's not like anyone was like, Justin, you have to post this.

• 1:08:28Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 1:08:28Alex Cooper?

  Clearly, he had to have liked it to post it.

• 1:08:30Speaker 01

  He, I think, felt passionate about me when I was younger because that's how he was discovered. So I think that, I don't know, I wasn't in the room, but potentially when Scooter showed it to him, he was like, I want to get involved with this.

• 1:08:40Alex Cooper?

  I feel like I remember also back in the day, seeing Justin post like, a lot of people.

• 1:08:46Speaker 01

  He would do stuff like that all the time.

• 1:08:47Alex Cooper?

  Because that's how he was getting discovered. And I appreciate you clarifying, and I know there are some people watching that are like, what the fuck is going on? The point is, is there was a conspiracy.

• 1:08:56Speaker 01

  There was literally a theory.

• 1:08:57Alex Cooper?

  It's crazy, the amount of rumors about you on the internet.

• 1:09:01Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:09:01Alex Cooper?

  Why do you think that is?

• 1:09:03Speaker 01

  Firstly, I think I got in this very young. I think that like, it's been 11, 12 years of me being on social media. So of course, throughout the years, like, as I've grown into the human form, like, I'm sure that I've made mistakes, or said things, or done things, like any person would, in my shoes, that maybe I look back and I'm not proud of. But I don't, I can't give you an answer as to why there's so many people that literally make things up about me, or are just specifically mean to me. I feel like I've been a victim of like, just no empathy. People are just mean and vicious, and will like, make fun of me and not give me any benefit of the doubt, or assume that I'm a liar. And it's really hard. But I don't know the reason, and I don't think that I'm at a place where I blame myself anymore,

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  because I used to be like, oh, it has to be something. It has to be me. And I'm like, I didn't, I didn't do anything to these people. And I don't think that's true.

• 1:09:55Alex Cooper?

  I feel like, if I can take a crack at it, I'm like, I feel like, one, the, the relationship to Justin, we don't need to get into it, but any one that has any, like, touching of that man near him, if you're a woman, and you're not a certain woman, you're dead. And I think, naturally, when you're young and you're on the internet, people get so Fixated and obsessed with that shit that it's like we're right until the grave with you Madison. Even if we're bullying you like they just become obsessed with your life from day one. And then it's like they feel like they know you because they've watched you quite literally mature from a girl to a woman. And there's like some weird fucking shit.

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:10:36Alex Cooper?

  You're so young. We've said you've been in the industry for 11 years. What made you want to write a memoir at 24?

• 1:10:43Speaker 01

  I know, and I feel like it's very young and I've seen a lot of people online be like, what the hell? And I'm like, that's kind of the point, though. And I feel like it should show people how much I've been through at 24 to be able to even write this in the first place. But I don't know, I just think, like I said earlier, there's so much I wanted to say for so long that I just didn't feel was appropriate anywhere but a book format of some kind. I didn't feel like a teary eyed Instagram post would really do it justice. I didn't feel like coming on here for the first time and like being this the first time I ever really said things was I just wanted it to be like me telling my story without anyone else, no strings attached. And I feel good about it and I feel like it's definitely peculiar that someone so young is like writing a memoir. But I think it's it's bigger than just a memoir. It's more of like, I guess, a tell all and just sort of me.

• 1:11:28Speaker 01

  And and the reason it's called the half of it is because I want people to understand that obviously just because you know now this, you still only know the half of it. And we have so much more to go. Like I have so much more life to live and it's really just also about like everyone viewing each other as human and being like, wait, we're literally all trying. And it's everyone's first time here that I don't really think that we deserve to scrutinize each other and be mean and make fun of each other. And think everyone's a liar and just just put like people should be in my eyes innocent until proven guilty, not vice versa. And I just, I don't know. I just hope this book's book makes some people a little more empathetic towards each other and like not to spoil the ending, but the last line in the book is like, now that you've read my story, I hope you realize that everyone has a story you just haven't read yet.

• 1:12:11Speaker 01

  And that's the truth. And it's just the reality of life. And I think there's so many people who. Don't go through life with that perspective. And I think looking at everyone as someone's child as a probably wounded kid. We've all been through shit and I just, not to sound too preachy, but like just be nice and just love each other and I don't know.

• 1:12:31Alex Cooper?

  It's not preachy. I fucking love the last line of the book because again, going back to the beginning of the interview when I was like dude like you look at someone's social media, you look at your social media, you're so fucking beautiful. You look like you have your life together. You are on tour like you're singing, you have albums, like you're thriving, like people don't know the half of it. And it's like if we sit down and we take this as to heart of like now, next time you open your phone and you're someone that's a mean person.

• 1:13:00Speaker 01

  No, but you're a hundred percent right. And I think that it's just so important. And I think people really forget that. And it's such a crucial part of this life. And I think that it's something that like we all can do better at is and and again, I feel like it as much as I would love to be on social media, like guys, this is something that's happened to me. I don't feel like all my followers A, give a shit.

• 1:13:21Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:21Speaker 01

  Let alone B, would care. So I'm like, I just feel like there's no point in and this is for me, he is so cute. It's really only for me. Like I think there's other people who feel differently and do feel like maybe I can use my platform and be more open and honest, but I just I just don't feel like that audience.

• 1:13:38Alex Cooper?

  It's not the appropriate space sometimes.

• 1:13:40Speaker 01

  Exactly. And that's how I feel. When I like do like my tour and I have at the beginning of tour, I have Q and As, I talk to my fans in the most honest, vulnerable way I can. And we have such a deep, personal connection that like to me, those are the appropriate spaces. It's not, it's just not for like my Instagram.

• 1:13:54Alex Cooper?

  Yes. In a few weeks, you're going on a much different tour than you're used to. You're not going to be singing. You're going on a book tour.

• 1:14:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:02Alex Cooper?

  What are you looking forward to from this book tour?

• 1:14:05Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm excited. I, I really like. A lot of my experiences I've had so far in this crazy time and world has have been like my I write about this experience in my book about like holding hands with a stranger and like you know that you know you're both going through something beautiful and emotional when like the first thing you do is like hold hands and have this really true human connection. There's been so many instances like that that I really look back on. I'm like what an amazing life I've had and what a privileged position am I in to be so lucky to like have these deep connections with utter strangers through music and through vulnerability, hopefully through this book. Like that's such a beautiful, awesome thing and I and I

• 1:14:46Speaker 01

  and I do and I and obviously in the book you'll read that like it comes to this sort of ending of like

• 1:14:53Speaker 01

  I definitely made the right choice and like the answer is yes and moral of the whole story of like all these fucked up things have happened is like I'm still so grateful for all of it and I wouldn't trade my position for the world. I just hope that me as a singular individual can make some sort of a positive impact on people. I hope people listen to this podcast and say like ooh, maybe I shouldn't comment that this girl looks ugly in this video because why the fuck should I? Or like, maybe I should hold the door for someone because I never know what kind of day they had. Like I just think I want I just want so cheesy the world to be a bit of a better place and I want people to just be nicer to each other. And I think that

• 1:15:35Speaker 01

  this book is really about that specifically of just like be empathetic.

• 1:15:39Alex Cooper?

  I can't thank you enough for coming on because I feel like there's like again there's so many fucking things on the internet about you and rumors and gossip and mean things. It's like it's really fucking nice that you put this into a book that is like humanizes you and gives us all a chance to get to know you better. And I also really appreciate you sitting down with me and talking about topics that I know are very fucking sensitive and personal to you, but in a strange way like I know so many people are going to relate to you and connect with you and feel like I can go another fucking day because like,

• 1:16:15Speaker 01

  I hope so.

• 1:16:15Alex Cooper?

  Look, she's sitting here still and like there's more to her story and there's more to come and

• 1:16:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:20Alex Cooper?

  Hopefully it's gonna be positive and there's gonna be things that come from it, but I also agree. I hope people take from this like, let's be more compassionate because we have no fucking idea what anyone is going through and they shouldn't have to put their life out there 24/7 and to explain why you should be nice to people.

• 1:16:36Speaker 01

  Definitely not, agreed.

• 1:16:38Alex Cooper?

  Thank you for coming on Madison, it was truly a pleasure.

• 1:16:41Speaker 01

  Not coming, I'm at your house.

• 1:16:42Alex Cooper?

  Thank you for coming. Really thanks for coming to my office.

• 1:16:44Speaker 01

  Thank you for coming, Alex, next guest, please.

• 1:16:46Alex Cooper?

  Next guest coming, no, thank you.

• 1:17:03Alex Cooper?

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