The Conversation Every Couple Needs During Hard Seasons ft. Claire Holt

I sat down with Claire Holt to talk about something we all face sooner or later: what happens when life changes and you don't quite recognize yourself anymore. We talked about motherhood, marriage, guilt, career changes, and the pressure we put on ourselves to have all the answers right now. Claire shared what helped her navigate resentment, uncertainty, and the fear of losing her identity—and what she's learned about giving yourself grace along the way. If you're in a season of change, trying to support a partner through one, or wrestling with some hard questions of your own, I hope this conversation helps you feel a little less alone and a little more equipped to handle the conversations that matter most. Leave me a voicemail to be featured on the show! https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/ask-jefferson Join me on Supercast for ad-free episodes, bonus content, and AMAs: https://jefferson.supercast.com/ Order The Next Conversation Workbook: https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/workbook Thank you to our sponsors: Cozy Earth. Upgrade Your Every Day. Get 20% off at cozyearth.com/jefferson or use code JEFFERSON at check out. Mill. Try risk-free for 90 days and get $75 off at https://www.mill.com/jefferson and use code JEFFERSON at checkout. ZocDoc. https://zocdoc.com/jefferson to find and instantly book a doctor you love today. BetterHelp. Click https://betterhelp.com/jeffersonfisher for a discount on your first month of therapy. Order my book, The Next Conversation, or listen to the full audiobook today. Like what you hear? Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a 5-star review! Suggest a topic or ask a question for me to answer on the show! Want a FREE communication tip each week? Click here to join my newsletter. Join My School of Communication Watch my podcast on YouTube Follow me on Instagram Follow me on TikTok Follow me on LinkedIn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  LinkedIn is pretty amazing at helping you grow your small business. We cannot stop your new clients from emailing you at 3 a.m. We can help you sell, market, and hire in one place. We cannot help you be in three places at once. And while we can't help you organize your calendar, LinkedIn can help you land more clients so you have a calendar to organize. Grow your small business on LinkedIn. Learn more at LinkedIn.com/smallbusiness.

• 0:30Jefferson Fisher?

  Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast. Today, my guest is Claire Holt. You may know her from the Australia series H2O, Just Add Water, Vampire Diaries, Pretty Little Liars, Mean Girls 2, The Originals, you name it. And what we get to talk about, why I was so excited to talk to Claire, is that we go deep on the guilt cycle that moms and parents feel between career being fulfilled, being full-time parent. And we talk about how to know what season of life you're in and how to give yourself just a little bit more grace. We also talk about phones, the guilt that we feel when we're on phones in front of our kids and what role should phones play, and some suggestions on how to handle it a little better. And we talk about how to live in the discomfort

• 1:15Jefferson Fisher?

  when you're trying to build and grow and improve yourself. Hope you enjoy. Hi, so good to see you.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  Hi, so good to see you too. Likewise, I'm a huge fan.

• 1:26Jefferson Fisher?

  Thank you, same. I am really, really honored to just kind of sit down with you for a little bit. I know that you have just a huge history of work in acting, from H2O, Just Add Water, the Australia series, from Pretty Little Liars to Mean Girls 2 to Vampire Diaries.

• 1:48Speaker 02

  Oh my God, look at you, Kaya, sweet.

• 1:50Jefferson Fisher?

  And I'm, but I saw, one of the reasons why I want to talk to you, Claire, is because you made a big decision here recently, and that was to take a step. Back from it all.

• 2:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did.

• 2:03Jefferson Fisher?

  Kind of pivot. And that's really what I want to focus on. Because I know there are a lot of people, a lot of women, a lot of moms. And it's something that we're dealing with in my own house. Right of what Sierra is wanting to do. Of how they go from this one identity. Whether it's a working job, they're doing this, this switching to something else. Taking that leap of faith. And so I was really curious of how that played out for you.

• 2:32Speaker 02

  You know, it was such a challenge for me because my entire identity was wrapped up in my career as an actress. And my value, or the value I placed on getting the role, being successful, constantly working, booking auditions, booking campaigns, anything involved in that space. I thought I derived my worth from that. So when I had my first son, James, I knew I had always wanted to be a parent from when I was very young. It was my dream in life to be a mom. But I didn't realize how seismic that shift would be for me. And I really, really struggled. I really struggled. I felt down on myself.

• 3:17Speaker 02

  I didn't know who I was. I, I found myself shaking a rattle in front of his face one day and reading him these black and white baby books. And I just burst into tears because I couldn't understand how I could love something so much and still feel so creatively unfulfilled and still feel like, wait, this is supposed to be this big pivotal moment in my life. And it's supposed to change everything in the best way possible. And I feel so anxious and so sad. And so I really went on this journey over the last seven years.

• 3:57Speaker 02

  I mean, it's been constantly evolving of trying to figure out who I am outside of that identity as an actor. And realizing that, hold on a second. If I had nothing, if I were just me, is that enough for me? And, and can I love myself as just that? And I think I've gotten there. I really like, I have my moments, but I'm really proud of how hard I've worked to be okay with just being me, just Claire, you know?

• 4:30Jefferson Fisher?

  Just Claire. That's the big question.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  Just Claire.

• 4:34Jefferson Fisher?

  It's like this moment where you have to really sink in, am I enough?

• 4:38Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 4:39Jefferson Fisher?

  Just Claire, just Jefferson.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  I think we all feel that way, don't we?

• 4:42Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 4:43Speaker 02

  Not even just mothers. I think that, you know, we have this constant barrage of external stimuli. And, and we look at social media all day and people appear to be achieving so much and doing so much and winning and earning and, and it makes us feel like, wait, am I not doing enough? Should I be doing more? Should I be hustling? And I'm so guilty of that, for sure. But every time I have those feelings, I have to just come back to, you know, what, who do I mean to myself as just a person? And can I lay my head on my pillow at night and, and be happy and proud of who I am?

• 5:23Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, y'all have three, right?

• 5:25Speaker 02

  Three.

• 5:25Jefferson Fisher?

  I think two girls and a boy or?

• 5:27Speaker 02

  Two boys and a girl.

• 5:28Jefferson Fisher?

  Two boys and a girl. So what are their ages?

• 5:31Speaker 02

  One just turned seven, five and two.

• 5:36Jefferson Fisher?

  Okay, that's, you got the spread.

• 5:38Speaker 02

  I got the spread.

• 5:39Jefferson Fisher?

  So ours, our son is seven. Oh, he's eight. He just turned eight in January. And I still always say seven.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  It's hard, isn't it? Because you don't want to let go of that.

• 5:50Jefferson Fisher?

  I don't want it to be eight. Because the thing is, Claire, I remember being eight. And that's when I'm like, surely, he's not at that age yet.

• 5:59Speaker 02

  Crazy.

• 6:00Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, so my son is, he's eight and my daughter is six. And then after our daughter, we were like, we're good. Like, she is just an absolute firecracker.

• 6:15Speaker 02

  My daughter is the same way.

• 6:17Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, she, she keeps it. And yours is, your daughter's the youngest?

• 6:21Speaker 02

  No, she's the middle. So my son and my daughter are 17 months apart. So she'll be six in September.

• 6:28Jefferson Fisher?

  Does she like rule the roost? I mean, she's like, she's, is she the boss?

• 6:32Speaker 02

  Yes. Just last night, it was really funny. I was putting her to bed and she rolled over and she said, "Thank you for being, thank you and dad for being my parents." And I said, "Oh, my girl, we are the luckiest parents in the world to have you." And she goes, "I know."

• 6:47Speaker 02

  So she really knows her worth, this kid.

• 6:49Jefferson Fisher?

  She knows what she's doing.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:51Jefferson Fisher?

  She knows what she's doing. My youngest is definitely the, she's the, she's the boss. My son has two moms, his mom and his younger sister.

• 7:01Speaker 02

  And his sister.

• 7:02Jefferson Fisher?

  That's kind of it.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  Well, that's what you want. You want a girl who is strong and opinionated and values herself. And so that's what I try and tell myself when I'm like pulling my hair out, trying to figure out how to parent her. I'm like, it's okay. It's gonna pay off. It's gonna pay off.

• 7:17Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. And I think that's a, and I think that's a great segue into this idea of first, before we talk about how you parent your children. I'm curious of how you feel your parents parented you. You know, how, how, how did we get to have Claire and the way that she's approached life?

• 7:37Speaker 02

  It's so interesting. I will tell you that when I had, when I became a mother, my respect and admiration for my parents just compounded. And, you know, before becoming a parent, I had all of these, oh, well, you did this and you did that. And I would have done this differently. And I don't think you, you know, worked hard enough on this aspect of parenting. And then I had my own son and I was like, oh my gosh, this is the hardest thing in the world. Nobody knows what they're doing. You guys did an amazing job. Thank you so much. So it was really healing to sort of have that full circle moment, especially, you know, with my mother. I'm one of four, but my, my parents had three girls.

• 8:19Speaker 02

  So, you know, there's, there's an interesting dynamic at times with a household of women, I find. And so it was really beautiful to sort of have that like, wow, I'm really sorry for how I acted as a teenager moment with my mother.

• 8:32Jefferson Fisher?

  I love when I'm like having this moment with my, it's usually my son. Like I'm having to get on to him of like, you don't just break this. This isn't yours. And then I look at my parents. If we're, you know, on a trip and they're just cackling.

• 8:46Speaker 02

  They're just like, that's what you do. Totally.

• 8:48Jefferson Fisher?

  It's definitely.

• 8:49Speaker 02

  Totally. You know, they, I had this interesting dynamic and I think it's similar in my house. Where, um, you know, my mom was really gentle and she was a nurturer and we knew we could get away with some stuff with her. And my dad was really structured and, and, um, I wouldn't say strict is the right word, but he just believed in having chores and doing the right thing and having a strong work ethic and no means no. You know, with my mom, no meant maybe not right now, maybe a bit later. And

• 9:19Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 9:20Speaker 02

  She, but she was so soft and nurturing and, and really encouraged us to chase our dreams and, and she was the one who was like, you can do this. You can go to America. And she like helped, she put me on that plane and, and really gave me the opportunity of a lifetime. Um, to move here. So I'm super lucky. And I think also growing up in Australia was such a beautiful experience for me. Um, it was very different, I think, to, to how kids are growing up now. And also I grew up without social media. I mean, it only came in my very late teens, early twenties. So, so I didn't have that.

• 9:57Jefferson Fisher?

  I think we're the same age. Yeah.

• 9:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. I didn't have that deep fear, you know?

• 10:03Jefferson Fisher?

  And thank goodness, I think sometimes we didn't have it. Yeah. Thank goodness.

• 10:08Speaker 02

  I'd still be trying to fix that if I had it when I was a teenager.

• 10:13Jefferson Fisher?

  Me and you both. Um, I want to make sure that I don't miss, uh, something important. And that is when you are, I want to kind of go back to the Claire that is seeing, feeling the weight of this acting career. And here she is looking at her newborn.

• 10:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:35Jefferson Fisher?

  And you're getting tears in your eyes and you're feeling, how could I love so much, but yet be creatively unfulfilled? And how do I balance that? And how do I know that I want to?

• 10:46Jefferson Fisher?

  Do something different and have that that leap of faith and like, what am I if I am not this, if I am not, and there are people that I know it happens with mothers whose kids are, we have friends whose kids are graduating high school and they're going off to college like, what, who am I if I am not the caretaker mother who makes every sandwich, you know, what is that? And so what kind of advice do you have for those people who are in a a shifting of seasons?

• 11:17Speaker 02

  Don't judge yourself. That's the biggest thing that I would say because it's so easy to go, I shouldn't be thinking like this. This is a mistake. I'm supposed to do this, or I'm supposed to do that. I'm supposed to love my child. I'm supposed to love every moment of parenthood. It's so challenging for some people to have children and I'm so lucky and I'm not supposed to feel this way. Or, you know, judging yourself doesn't fix anything. It just makes it worse. So I think giving yourself grace and acknowledging this is a massive change and you can read as many parenting books as you want, but you have to, it's a lived experience thing, I think. You have to give yourself time to adjust and, and you shouldn't rush the adjustment and you shouldn't think that you have all the answers.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  And if you want to go back to work, that's great. If you don't want to go back to work, that's great. It, it's something that's going to evolve over time. And I feel like now, seven years later, I'm just starting to hit my stride in terms of feeling ownership of my career and who I am and feeling comfortable with the decisions I'm making and comfortable enough to say no and brave enough to take leaps that I didn't feel safe taking. That's the, the most important thing. It takes time and if you don't have all of the answers in Six months? That's normal.

• 12:42Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 12:42Speaker 02

  And, and healthy, probably.

• 12:45Jefferson Fisher?

  Why do you feel? To me, the, the, the emotion that comes up there is regret. You know, this. Well. Actually, if I dig deeper, I think the better emotion is guilt.

• 13:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 13:01Jefferson Fisher?

  Why do you? Why? Do you feel? That I'm, I'm gonna put this in again. I'm not a mother. Right, I'm. I am a husband who does what his wife says.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  You probably have some pretty good insights.

• 13:16Jefferson Fisher?

  I do have some insights, but I, you have a very unique perspective and the, the listeners of this podcast too as well. I, I'm curious on your take of why that sense of guilt? You know, how, how, is that something you felt? Is that something you continue to feel? And if you don't feel it anymore, how, how have you overcome it?

• 13:39Speaker 02

  So I've always had a very overdeveloped sense of guilt, even from when I was a teenager. I mean, I remember being 13 years old at a sleepover. I took a puff of a cigarette and I called my parents and I said, you have to come and pick me up. I have to tell you something. They came and picked me up at 11 o'clock at night and I stood there and said, I have to confess. I took a puff of, of a cigarette. I understand if you have massive consequences for me, I'm so sorry. So I've always had that feeling inside of me. And it just increased a thousandfold when I had kids and every thought, you know, this is the wrong thought. This, I'm not with my child enough. I don't wanna be with my child. I feel guilty because I want some time to myself right now.

• 14:24Jefferson Fisher?

  Yes, this is what I'm talking about. Yes, that right there, that, that kind of like back and forth guilt. But it also feels like it starts really young. I see this even.

• 14:33Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 14:33Jefferson Fisher?

  There's a big difference, like my son doesn't feel a thing. My daughter can be the first like, I need to tell you this, like, because it weighs so heavy on her. And that's just really curious to me of like, you feel guilt about one, then guilt on the other. Yeah, you think it's a nature nurture.

• 14:49Speaker 02

  I think it's, I think it's nature. I think I was born that way. Maybe your daughter was born that way. My oldest son was born that way. My daughter, she doesn't feel bad. She's good, you know? So. I I recently heard something and it it has changed my perspective on guilt. And guilt is when you you should feel guilty when you're acting in misalignment with your values. So if I'm going to exercise, I'm taking an hour away from my kids because I'm gonna go for a run. What are my values? I value being healthy and strong so I can take care of my kids. I value hard work, training for something. Exercise is a core belief that I think is it's really important.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  So is it in misalignment with my values if I go out for a run for an hour? No, I should feel good about that. So I'm not gonna feel guilty. When I go away on a work trip, I value hard work. I value, you know, building something or an entrepreneurial spirit. I I value showing my kids that if you want something, you can go after it. So if I'm away on a work trip, is that in misalignment with my values? No, I shouldn't feel guilty. So I I always have this system where I judge what I'm doing. What are my values? And if I'm acting in accordance with my values, I should the the guilt has to stop. And and I put it to the side and I move on. And that's really helped me to reframe. Because before that, it was just, oh, I'm a bad mom.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm not there. Oh, I'm traveling. Oh, I'm on a plane. Why? Oh, I've got a two hour run that I've got to do for my marathon training. And I feel so bad because my husband's gonna take my son to soccer and I'm gonna miss his soccer game because I'm just this crazy spinning wheel of thoughts that were not productive. And so that's really, really helped me for sure.

• 16:36Jefferson Fisher?

  Even last night, like in in my home, it's Sierra. We were gonna go to a charity event. And instead, I needed to do uh this interview webinar thing that was also equally important. And that was going to mean that I was gonna have some. We found a babysitter, have some babysitter help, and I was gonna make her work. I'm saying, hey, I'm gonna, we're gonna be fine. I'll take care of dinner. And she just had so much guilt over the fact of e even going for an hour, you know, to this event. And I think it comes up over time. And I and I know everybody listening can relate to this kind of guilt cycle of. I'm away from my kids. Also, when I'm with my kids, I feel guilty that I'm not doing

• 17:20Jefferson Fisher?

  something else. I'm not keeping all the, I'm not juggling all the balls in the air. And what I hear you saying is, well, you've found to stop your cycle, when you go through that guilt cycle, is to ask the question, am I acting in alignment with my values? And which is going to require some sense of, what are my values?

• 17:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:42Jefferson Fisher?

  You know, I'm gonna, you're gonna be a better mom when you show up happy, fulfilled, whether it's health, or whether it's mental clarity, you know, it's, it's, and the family wants you to go do these things because they know it's gonna like refresh you in some, like, fill your cup.

• 18:03Speaker 02

  I think it's challenging, you know, when you're at the phase or the stage where the child's crying for you, right there. No, mommy, don't go. No, daddy, don't go. Or they need, I need you to put me to bed, or they're having some form of anxiety. And that makes that feeling so much more intense. And I think it's, I'm sure it's a biological process. Like, your, your nature is to be a caretaker and to take care of this baby, this infant, this toddler, whatever it is. But I also try and tell myself in those moments, I'm teaching them that they have the skills to handle discomfort. I'm not gonna fix the discomfort that comes up for them when they want me to be there, when

• 18:44Speaker 02

  they need something, when they're feeling all of this anxiety in their body. It's my job to teach them how to handle that, not to fix it for them. So.

• 18:53Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh, that's powerful, Claire. Yeah, that's great.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  Thank you. It's helped. I mean, listen, it's been seven years of trying to figure out the right way to do it. And I don't, I've certainly not done that yet. But these things really help me. And when I feel sturdy, and when I feel like a strong leader, I see it reflected in my kids.

• 19:12Jefferson Fisher?

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• 19:55Jefferson Fisher?

  I know I do. CozyEarth.com/jefferson. Use the code Jefferson for up to 20% off. CozyEarth.com/jefferson. Use the code Jefferson for 20% off. And now, enjoy the episode.

• 20:08Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh, we've talked about moms and we're gonna, I definitely want to keep on this motherhood thread. I also want to pause and say, hey, do you have any advice for the bonehead caveman husbands? Like me, you know, who, how was your, how was your husband?

• 20:27Speaker 02

  He's the best.

• 20:27Jefferson Fisher?

  Your partner supported you in this, in these moments when you're kind of in the guilt cycle of having different wants and being pulled different directions and to encourage you to say, hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be here.

• 20:44Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 20:45Jefferson Fisher?

  No matter what. What's the best way that he's been able to show up?

• 20:48Speaker 02

  There's a few things. And first of all, like you saying that showing up, he just shows up. He's there. And, you know, sometimes he asks me, do you want comfort or solutions right now? Cause he's a solutions oriented guy and he's very used to fixing things. So sometimes he'll give me, oh, what, why don't you do this? Why don't you do that? And I'm like, I don't want to hear it. I just want to complain, right? And he's amazing at that. I think also, you know, we had a journey because when I first had children, a lot of resentment came up because so much in my life changed and I wouldn't say very little, but not that much changed in his. You know, he still got to, he, he didn't have to carry the baby, he didn't have to go through pregnancy and postpartum.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  He didn't have, he could just, he took the two weeks off and it was awesome and amazing, but then he went right back to work and everything was the same. And I was like, hold on a second, how is this fair? Every single moment of my life, I am consumed with this. Childbearing, um, giving birth, a postpartum, raising, feeding, the pressures that come with that. And you know, it's my responsibility to breastfeed, it's my responsibility to take care of this baby. When he cries, he needs me. And I felt really resentful because I had focused so much on my career for so long. And.

• 22:07Speaker 02

  You know, I'm sure that that was very hard for him to navigate. But he just listened and he totally understood and he never made me wrong and he never tried to tell me. No, you, you, I, things have changed, I can't travel, I can't, you know, do, he never did any of that. He just went, I hear you, I'm really sorry, I'm here for you if you want to talk about it. Um, and that was super helpful. He validated that and he's such a hands-on dad, like now especially with slightly older kids. I feel so comfortable going, here they are, I'm off. And you know, we have help, but I'm very confident that my husband could take care of all three children by himself for a week.

• 22:46Speaker 02

  And they'd be fine. Things may not be done the way I do them, but they'd be done the way he does them and he's their dad and it's great. So I think just understanding that it's more than just having a baby, this, this identity shift and all of the things that come with it. It's so impactful for the mother, for the woman. And so just like listening and understanding and giving a little grace. We may be kind of difficult to be around sometimes and, and just acknowledging, okay, like. It's like, treat us like a toddler, you know, your toddler's having a tantrum, you're not going to make them wrong, you're not going to, you're just going to let them have their moment. And they're going to work through it and then you're going to chat about it after.

• 23:28Speaker 02

  It's kind of similar, you know, let, let, let us work through our process and so. That's what he does and he's awesome. And you know, we've been married for eight years and he's, I'm obsessed with him. He's the greatest guy ever.

• 23:43Jefferson Fisher?

  That's awesome.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's really awesome.

• 23:45Jefferson Fisher?

  I think we all, we all go through that, that toddler tantrum, you know, all of us.

• 23:50Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 23:51Jefferson Fisher?

  And, but I think a lot of the times, oh, in relationships, we have a hard time giving the same amount of rope, you know, to, to allow it to happen. Like if my daughter comes down the stairs and it's, let's say, eight P M. And she's crying and whiny and, you know, maybe her voice is louder and things and she's not liking stuff. And she's crossing her arms. It's like, I'm not going to get mad at like, how dare you behave this way to me.

• 24:24Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 24:25Jefferson Fisher?

  I see it as, she's tired. She's sleepy.

• 24:28Speaker 02

  Totally, totally.

• 24:30Jefferson Fisher?

  You know, or, or she's just hungry, or she doesn't feel good, you know, these like very natural things that we don't mind seeing that through the lens of our own children. But we have a hard time seeing it through the lens of the person we had the children with.

• 24:44Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 24:44Jefferson Fisher?

  Of, of understanding that they're also just as tired, just as hungry. And I do think that in any relationship, marriage or otherwise, it, um, it brings up or highlights the, everybody's own value of fairness. Like that just gets, that just gets exposed big time.

• 25:07Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 25:08Jefferson Fisher?

  You know, me, fairness is not really a, a big, huge thing of my identity. It is absolutely the identity of my wife.

• 25:20Speaker 02

  Really?

• 25:20Jefferson Fisher?

  And so, oh my goodness, yeah, she's, she's big, big, big on fairness. And that's got passed on to my son. He is big, big, big on, on fairness. And so, you know, but, but those kinds of things, relationships have a way of whatever, identity you have is going to get brought up. You know, it's going to be tested. It's going to be pushed. And what you say, I think is really beautiful of that. Sometimes you just need to go a little easy on yourself. When you're in this career change and you're not really sure and you're feeling like you're in the guilt cycle, you need to go a little easy on yourself. Before we get going, I want to take a moment to tell you about Mill. Now, there are a few things in life that come as surprises.

• 26:05Jefferson Fisher?

  And one I never really expected, y'all, is Mill. All right, it has revolutionized how we do things in our kitchen. And there was, we know, there was a time pre-mill and post-mill. And this, in this post-mill life, it's been awesome. What is Mill? It is an automatic food recycler. So what you do is you take things like scraps of food, anything that you would scrape off a plate, or feed to a dog, or go throw outside, or whatever, you would, you put in the mill. It's next to no noise. It never smells. There's no fruit flies or anything. And what my kids love about it is like, my daughter will come, and by the way, she is

• 26:49Jefferson Fisher?

  very disciplined about what can go in this mill. So she loves any opportunity to go like, "Dad, can this go in the mill?" I'm like, "Yeah, it can go." And so she throws it in there, and the next morning, it's dry, shelf-stable grounds. And it's like magic. And you, we, we thought it was gonna be something of like, "Ah, I don't really know." It's awesome. And I think we've, like, had three personal friends of ours get it because it's that awesome. So if you are looking to change how you do things in the kitchen and be a little bit more environmentally friendly of how you handle food scraps, look no further than Mill. Once it's shelf-stable grounds, you can do whatever you want with it. I think we filled ours twice, but it took two months, three months for that to even happen. So you can put in the 10 pounds of things in there.

• 27:32Jefferson Fisher?

  So if you are like me and you're ready to be in that post-mill life, you can try Mill risk-free for 90 days and get $75 off at mill.com/jefferson. That's $75 off at mill, M-I-L-L, dot com slash Jefferson. You won't regret it. And now, let's keep going. So you were telling me Claire about the thing that your daughter came home with. Can you show me one more time what that was?

• 28:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was from her teacher. It says, "Give yourself grace." I love her teacher more than anything and she's just so kind, the way she helps these children navigate the big feelings and she knew I was going through like a trickier time. I'm quite close to her actually. She's so awesome. And so she sent this home with me and I put it beside my desk and I see it every day. And anytime I'm having a hard time and I'm thinking about my failures or my guilt or this, "I'm not doing this, I'm not doing that," I just look at it and I pause. I'm a big visual person. I feel like if you have this reminder in front of you, a vision board, write something on your mirror, it really helps.

• 28:41Jefferson Fisher?

  Is that why you think you turn to marathon running? You know, you kind of subconsciously enjoy the... Yeah, exactly. Just getting all your trauma out.

• 28:53Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 28:53Jefferson Fisher?

  Is it that you've... You know, there is...

• 28:58Jefferson Fisher?

  The people who run marathons that I know in my life, in fact Travis, who's one of the producer of the show.

• 29:05Speaker 02

  Okay Travis.

• 29:06Jefferson Fisher?

  He does ultra marathons Claire.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  Damn, that is impressive.

• 29:11Jefferson Fisher?

  He does ultras and last year I think he did, he did an ultra like every month. Okay?

• 29:16Speaker 02

  What?

• 29:16Jefferson Fisher?

  He's about to run the Boston Marathon.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  I'm gonna call you up. I'm going to Boston this weekend to cheer. I'm so excited. That's amazing.

• 29:23Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, so like that one, I don't, I don't know if there's something broken in his mind. I don't know, but this is the way it works.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  Definitely something broken in mine.

• 29:33Jefferson Fisher?

  It's super impressive. And so do you find that it's, you know, part of this, you know, ethos of knowing that it's not a race, it's a marathon. It's not just this one step, it's all the steps after it. It's not just this guilt here. It's where you, you know, your, your life is not the sum of what your career is in the next year, you know?

• 29:59Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 29:59Jefferson Fisher?

  It's, it's like, um, you know, how can you be 80 years old and look back at your 37 year old self and say,

• 30:08Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 30:09Jefferson Fisher?

  That kid was just figuring it out. You know, what, why, what made you turn to running?

• 30:14Speaker 02

  It taught me so much about myself. And I think throughout the process, number one, it was an confirmation that I can do really hard things. And I think when you actively choose to do hard things, it makes the rest of life easier because you know how to navigate it. You know how to navigate when a speed bump comes. You know how to navigate when something gets tough. You know that there's gonna be moments in training, in a race, in life. It's an amazing metaphor for life, where you feel so bad. But you also know around the corner, there's gonna be a moment where you feel high as a kite and you've never felt better.

• 30:55Speaker 02

  And you could run another thirty miles and you you're high fiving people. And and those two moments are so much closer together often than you think they are. And so it it really taught me that life and running and everything around it,

• 31:15Speaker 02

  it's it's up and down, it ebbs and flows, and nothing is permanent. And so you can have an amazing race and you can have a terrible race. It's really outside of your control and it's really about what happens on the day. But your mindset is everything. And so I just it changed my life. When I signed up for that first race, also, I needed a goal after having kids. I really, really wanted something to to challenge myself with, to look forward to and to commit to. And so when I set this goal, I realized how powerful goal setting is and what a difference it can make to your psyche and your mindset. And so now, like, I can't stop.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  My poor husband, when my alarm goes off at four AM, he's like, please, come on.

• 32:05Jefferson Fisher?

  Now, I know that.

• 32:08Jefferson Fisher?

  When you are facing these big like seasons, at least this is just me. I think I'm really talking more like to myself on this is I. It helps me when I realize when I am in one season and not in another season. Meaning I want to do all the things, right? But that's not the season that I'm in like I it would be great if I could go with friends or do this or go try that and go learn this. But that would take away from picking my kids up, putting them in the bed, breakfast in the morning. And I know it's like, that's not my season and so much.

• 32:52Jefferson Fisher?

  I think when I come to peace with that, there is a big

• 32:57Jefferson Fisher?

  kind of emotional nod in my mind of like, that's just not the season I'm in. You know, later in life, yeah, I'll get to have that chance, but that's not this season. And so when I know that that's going to be coming or it hasn't gone away. It can and I it helps me actually focus better

• 33:17Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 33:17Jefferson Fisher?

  On the season I'm in, do you relate to that at all?

• 33:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I find that sometimes when I see people having brunch on a Sunday with a mimosa and their friends. And I look at it sometimes and I'm covered in like maple syrup from pancakes. And like, I'm trying to chase a kid around with a spoonful of eggs or something.

• 33:34Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  And then I go, I know that that's going to come back for me one day. And I'm going to be wishing I had those sticky fingers on me. I know for sure. And so I can watch them and I can say, oh, that was a nice time in my life and I really did enjoy that. Maybe I didn't value the peace and quiet quite enough in that moment. But it's going to come back for me and nothing is going to compare to what I'm in now. This season, this beautiful, beautiful season. In fact, I find myself really struggling to let go of this season. And, you know, should I have another baby? Should I just have 10 babies? It's the greatest thing of all time. It's the most beautiful, there's so much love. I love it. They're growing up. I can't bear the thought of them leaving me. And so you're so right.

• 34:21Speaker 02

  To be, I just try to remind myself, I know that this is not gonna last forever. In fact, it's probably gonna be another five, six, seven years of having kids in my house in the way that they are right now.

• 34:34Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 34:34Speaker 02

  And my gosh, am I gonna miss it when it's gone?

• 34:38Jefferson Fisher?

  Before we keep going, I'm gonna take a moment to tell you about Zocdoc. I don't know about you, but my guess is, if I know you, there is a doctor's appointment that you need to have. There's a dentist appointment, there's a dermatologist appointment, there's some kind of health-related appointment that you have been needing to get put on the schedule, and you've been avoiding it because there's always that one thing. I know because it happens to me. It took me way too long to schedule a dermatologist appointment that I know I need to do, I just haven't done. Zocdoc makes it that much easier. So what it does, first off, it's all online, and it can find health providers in your area that take your insurance, which is huge, and also on the platform itself, it will

• 35:23Jefferson Fisher?

  help set up the appointment for you, remind you for the appointment. So when they can make the process easier, it makes it easier to actually go to the appointment. With more than 150,000 providers across all 50 states, you can find everything from primary care to dentistry to dermatology, eye care, and more than 200 other specialties. You can search by specialty or even by symptom to build the care team that's right for you. Do you need an in-person appointment? They can do that. Do you want a video visit? Awesome, they can do that, too. You can read thousands of verified patient reviews and see real-time availability. Appointments made through Zocdoc happen fast, and typically within just 24 to 72 hours of booking.

• 36:05Jefferson Fisher?

  So stop putting off those doctor's appointments, I'm talking to you, and go to zocdoc.com/jefferson to find and instantly book a doctor you love today. That's zocdoc, Z-O-C-D-O-C dot com slash Jefferson, zocdoc.com slash Jefferson. And now, let's keep going. You shared something of, you know, when you're kids, that you feel like that that push and pull of you leaving them and they want you to stay, and you're teaching them to learn to handle the discomfort, right? You're saying, I can't do everything for you. You have to learn, I have to teach you how to handle the discomfort. And I feel like...

• 36:47Jefferson Fisher?

  Because we are now apparently adults somehow that happened.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  Are we?

• 36:53Jefferson Fisher?

  That, yeah, is that right? I don't feel like that's right.

• 36:55Speaker 02

  I'm still 21.

• 36:56Jefferson Fisher?

  That, exactly, that it's marathons, it's, you know, the cold plunge, it's the, it's the hobbies, it's, those are the things that have to teach us sometimes to live in the discomfort. And so you are, when you're doing the marathon and you, yeah, you have to run these, it's not like you can just go to the gym and do 30 minutes of a workout. Like a marathon takes a lot of training and a lot of miles and a lot of time. It's, it's you having to live in that discomfort. You think that's some of what that's taught you?

• 37:36Speaker 02

  For sure. I mean, especially in Miami, Florida in the summer, when you've got

• 37:42Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  20 miles to run and it's 87 degrees and 100% humidity outside. No, it's interesting. I really feel that because I can do this, because I have shown myself that I can set my mind to something and achieve it, it's given me the courage to do this new 2.0 of my life and my career. And the thing that I was struggling with so much, who am I? What should I do? Am I a business owner? Am I an investor? Am I creative? Am I still an actor? Am I a writer? Where am I going to go with this? What am I going to do with my life? Running marathons has given me the courage to try something that I didn't think I could do before.

• 38:27Speaker 02

  And so it's not just understanding that I can tolerate the discomfort, but maybe on the other side of that discomfort, there's something so incredible. And I have to just go for it and see what's there.

• 38:40Jefferson Fisher?

  I think that's well said. Sometimes you just have to go for it and see what's there. But you, you gotta go for it first, you know?

• 38:47Speaker 02

  And also, you know, so many of us have, it's not only the imposter syndrome or feeling like we can't do things. It's what's everyone going to think of me? And what I've realized is people don't think about you anywhere near as much as you think they do. And even if you don't finish the race, your business doesn't succeed in the way that you wanted it to. Whatever it is, no one cares. And and it's such a freeing thing to think about. Like, you know, we spend so many years, our formative years, thinking that everybody cares about every single thing that you do. And then you just realize like, we're all existing in our own world and we're all thinking about our own stuff. And so.

• 39:26Speaker 02

  So when you have that freedom to go like, okay, if I don't finish the race, or I don't get to the end, or I don't get the time I want, like. It's fine. That's it's nobody else's business but my own. And so um that's a was a really like freeing thing for me to realize as well.

• 39:42Jefferson Fisher?

  When you look at, you know, we we talked about the season, the seasons of life and understanding what season you're in. And we've looked at. How you handle that discomfort and giving yourself some grace um and getting out of that that guilt cycle. Is there something that even now, even though you know you can give yourself grace, you you still struggle with a little bit?

• 40:07Speaker 02

  Yes, and that's being on my phone. Um, because I a large part of my business, um, both social media, but also. Starting the business that I've just started, my fashion brand.

• 40:21Jefferson Fisher?

  That's right. The T shirts, right?

• 40:23Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah.

• 40:24Jefferson Fisher?

  Do you have? Do you have a men's line?

• 40:26Speaker 02

  We have a boyfriend tee that I I make my boyfriend, my husband, wear and it looks great now. But just women's for now.

• 40:33Jefferson Fisher?

  Say, you give me the hookup.

• 40:35Speaker 02

  You're so sweet. Uh, so a lot, a lot of my business is being on my phone and I. Have to make a conscious effort to tell my kids, like, this is not do, you know, I'm not just doing, I'm trying to work and and. Finding that boundary of like, okay, I have this device that keeps me connected and. You know, allows me to do all of this stuff in a in a moment's notice and and fix problems and and, you know, come up with solutions, whatever it is. But also my kids don't know that. They don't know what's going on in that thing.

• 41:08Jefferson Fisher?

  That's such a good point. Yeah.

• 41:09Speaker 02

  So, so I feel very guilty sometimes when I pull it out of my faces and I hear my son trying to ask me a question and I have to say, just one minute, I'm just doing some work and, and they don't understand. And so that is, that's something I'm really trying to navigate now, um, especially in the world of social media. I made a pivot that I don't share my children's faces or voices anymore.

• 41:32Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, same. I don't do that either.

• 41:33Speaker 02

  And that really, you know, when I started, uh, when I started having kids, I did not understand at all. And I had had this process of really struggling. I had a miscarriage, um, with my first pregnancy and I was quite open about it. And I shared it online and I got so much love and support, a tremendous amount of love and support. And I felt very connected to my community in this journey of becoming a mother. And so it just felt natural to me, oh, well, this is my baby. I'm just going to share my kids. And then I started sharing and I would talk about it and I didn't know really what was happening on the internet at that point. I mean, I did, but I didn't really understand. And then as time went on, I started to feel more and more uncomfortable about it.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  But I was like, well, I've already shared them. I've already shared their lives. Like, what do I just stop? And then, and then finally I got to a place where I was like, you know what? I'm not going to make a big hurrah about it, but I'm not going to do this anymore. It doesn't feel right. It may, you know, it's misaligned with my values. These are not my values. And so I stopped sharing them and, and I think that's created like a really healthy boundary. But I still have to be on Instagram for my business. I still have to be on my emails. I still have to do things on my phone. And so that's, I really struggle with that, how to explain to them. You know, it's not like you just clock in to a nine to five. It's a very different world that we live in now. And so that, I'm working on that one.

• 43:04Jefferson Fisher?

  You care if I, I share some things, at least what I've learned?

• 43:06Speaker 02

  Please, please.

• 43:07Jefferson Fisher?

  With this social media aspect of it all is, uh, and I'm certainly no expert of the right way to, to do it. Because I've struggled with a lot of that same stuff. So I very much relate to that. There is a fear in me that what I don't want is my kids at the age of twenty-four.

• 43:32Jefferson Fisher?

  Twenty seven, thirty three, where they're in therapy. And they have to tell the therapist because my, my parents, you know, emotionally abandoned me because they looked at their screen more than me, you know, they.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  Got chills. I feel the same way.

• 43:49Jefferson Fisher?

  You know, and it just, it is, I'm telling you, Claire, it's in my nightmares.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:54Jefferson Fisher?

  That it's going to be where they're having these moments where they're telling the therapist. You know, I can remember asking them to look and they're just looking at their screens or we're at dinner. And I'm eating and they're looking at their phones and they're telling me no screen time. They're telling me no TV.

• 44:11Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 44:12Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, no video games, but yet they're looking at their phone. And I, you know, I think it's gonna, I truly, if I'm projecting, I think it's gonna be a pandemic in some sense.

• 44:23Speaker 02

  I'm certain of that.

• 44:24Jefferson Fisher?

  The children of the people who got these smartphones, because this wasn't here before. And so that, I feel like that's kind of our age of smartphones. So that aside, and I know you and I share that same fear. Back in, uh, this was, this is almost a year ago, probably eight months ago.

• 44:44Jefferson Fisher?

  I decided I wasn't gonna have social media on my phone anymore, like my own. My own phone. I am, and I'm not saying that from a position of I know, right? I'm just saying it got to a point of unhealthy for me because I find that I would look at Instagram. I have a lot of followers. You have a ton of followers. And I'd swipe off of it and then I'd find myself all of a sudden without thinking, clicking on it just again.

• 45:10Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 45:11Jefferson Fisher?

  And it's like, it doesn't, nothing's changed. But yet, and that, that was my moment of like, this isn't healthy for me. This isn't, this isn't, this isn't good for me. I felt like, um, and so when I, like, I have my phone right here. No, no social media on it. Instead, I've been able to get a team that shares in things, helps in things.

• 45:34Speaker 02

  Awesome.

• 45:35Jefferson Fisher?

  Monitors messages, emails and stuff to where I let them handle it because I realize that's not good for me. I'll tell you what my wife and I do is when we get home, we pick up the kids, our phone goes on what we call it home mode. So that's our nice way of like, instead of. Her telling me, hey, can you put up your phone? Which is gonna make me defensive, you know? And like if your husband was like, okay, you, what are you doing? It just, what are you doing, what are you doing on your phone? And immediately you're like, I gotta finish this, right? And then it makes you feel like that guilt comes in again. I need to finish this. I know I need to home. I'm trying to, just one second, just one. And instead of that, when we ask, you know, are you go with, can we put phones on home mode?

• 46:18Jefferson Fisher?

  Is the way, is like our cue of we're gonna put our phones down for a few hours while the kids, they don't see us on them. And then know that when we do bath and bed, then we can have, you know, 30 minutes to an hour of like whatever we need to catch up on. But that's, I'm, we're still trying to figure it out.

• 46:36Speaker 02

  And we do phone free Sundays now. So

• 46:39Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh, that's good.

• 46:39Speaker 02

  My husband leaves his phone by our bedside table. He doesn't touch it for one second on Sunday. I have it for logistics. So if I gotta order a pizza or if I've got a

• 46:49Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh, yeah.

• 46:49Speaker 02

  You know, I got the phone for that.

• 46:52Jefferson Fisher?

  There's gonna have to be something that's like

• 46:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:55Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 46:55Speaker 02

  Or if someone's in an emergency, they need to contact us for sure. But it sits in a little basket in our kitchen and I don't touch it. I'll just check it maybe like at noon.

• 47:03Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, we have a little bowl in our kitchen. That's exactly what, yeah.

• 47:06Speaker 02

  And that's been life changing.

• 47:07Jefferson Fisher?

  That's gonna be something that's gonna be in, yeah.

• 47:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:09Jefferson Fisher?

  How's it affected Joe's life?

• 47:11Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh, we're just so much, I'm so much more present with my kids. I'm so much happier on a Sunday because I don't have any FOMO whatsoever. Like, oh, these people are doing these things and I'm just, you know, like wiping butts. I have none of that. We go swimming, we go to the beach, we, we play games. I teach them games from when I was a kid, like foot wrestling and, and it's been so beautiful because our kids know if my mom has to do something for work or she's on her phone or whatever, they know Sunday is our day. That's our family day. And that's really helped. I would love to get better. I would love to get to a position where I don't touch it at all when I'm around them. But I'm also trying to give myself grace and explain to them when I am what I'm doing. But

• 47:55Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 47:56Speaker 02

  It's a huge fear of mine, a huge fear of mine.

• 47:59Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, I, I, I can definitely relate in that fear, you know, and how we, how we show up as, as parents. And I think that's, that plays a big part. You told me that struggling on your phone, you know, is there a, is there a part of your mindset? That struggles is it doubt over whether you're doing the right thing? And like I'm trying to give, let's put it this way, for the listener who says, Claire, I feel like I'm in the exact same season you were seven years ago, or even four months ago, when you decided, you know, to make the leap to take a step back from acting. And I'm, I am, I'm right there on the edge and I don't know what I should do.

• 48:43Jefferson Fisher?

  What, what would you tell that person?

• 48:48Speaker 02

  Ah, it's interesting because it's different for everyone. And I think I would say,

• 48:58Speaker 02

  give yourself time to figure it out. Don't feel like you have to have the answer right now because it's going to take time. And, you know, you may want to go back to the career you had before, but it may not be available to you. And you're only going to figure that out when you get there and you try. And then you're going to have to pivot. But it's, again, it's a marathon. It's not a sprint. This, this version of yourself doesn't have to come to you immediately. It will take time and it may be uncomfortable. It may feel uncomfortable that you don't have the answers right away. But really trying to be present and to sit in that and to acknowledge it

• 49:38Speaker 02

  and not rush to change it, but to sort of work through it, I think is the best advice I could give. Um, I still don't have it right. Like I, I still don't know. And it took me a long time to feel comfortable. When people ask me, what do you do? I would always say, I'm an actor. I'm an actor. And then it became, oh, I'm just a mom. Oh, I'm just a mom. And now it's, I do a lot of stuff, actually. It's really, it's really fun. I'm having a great time. I don't need to identify what I am, what I do, who I am to anyone. Um, and that's, that's something that, you know, it took me seven years to get there. So. Takes time.

• 50:19Jefferson Fisher?

  It does. And I think what I hear you saying is whatever time you think you have to figure it out, whatever time you think you need, give yourself more, you know, give, give yourself more. Whatever time you think it's, it should take, double it. Yeah, yeah. Whatever time you think it should take, double it. Cause most likely you're being the hardest critic of yourself. You're harshest on, I should have figured this out by now. I'm way, I'm, I'm taking too long. I'm getting, I'm, I'm, I'm getting too old. I'm, I don't have this all right. It's like, whatever time you think that you, double it, you know, give yourself a little bit more time, which I think plays right into your, give yourself a little bit more grace.

• 51:02Speaker 02

  And, and I think the other thing that is really important is you get to decide how you feel about any given situation or moment. And sometimes where I'm, when I'm really struggling and I'm in that hole, I have to remind myself, wait a second, I can change how I feel. In, in the snap of my fingers, I can decide I'm going to be happy right now. I'm going to decide to look for the good in what I have around me right now. I'm going to decide to lock in on the giggles of my kids and how that makes me feel. And you having those like micro moments of control sometimes help you to feel a little more in control of your life as a whole.

• 51:42Jefferson Fisher?

  I think that's really awesome. And do you feel that the, the, the parts of you that have been in your whole career in acting, do you think that is played to be a strength or a weakness, you know, in this, or maybe not a weakness, but at least sometimes a hurdle or an obstacle in the life that you have now?

• 52:07Speaker 02

  In terms of putting on a front or acting as something else?

• 52:12Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah. Trying, trying to say, am I, am I really being clear or am I trying to put on, put on the role of, of mom?

• 52:22Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, for sure. And it's because I didn't feel good about myself and who I was. And those insecurities led me to act as if, or put on a front, or, you know, hide behind, well, I'm an actor, I'm this, I'm that, or I'm just a mom. And I mean, I've been in therapy for almost twenty years. Like, I, it, it's taken me so long to work through all of this stuff and, and to get to a place where I feel super comfortable with who I am. And so that's another thing I would suggest, you know, it doesn't have to be a therapist, but just talk to someone. Don't do it by yourself. You don't have

• 53:04Speaker 02

  to sit in that world of, of discomfort or insecurity alone. And hopefully you have a partner, especially if you're a mother, hopefully you have a partner that you can share that with and be vulnerable with, because sometimes just speaking it out loud, it gives you freedom as well.

• 53:19Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, I, I think I read recently of, um, you're not meant to heal alone. And I think that was, um, something that stuck with me. Claire, thank you so much for

• 53:31Speaker 02

  Thank you so much for having me.

• 53:32Jefferson Fisher?

  With me. Yeah, getting to hear, yeah, how, how you approach life. Uh, and I know, I can tell that we're in the same season, you know, right now. And that gives me, that gives me a lot of hope and a good reminder that we could all

• 53:46Speaker 02

  You're, you're a little bit further ahead in the season. I've still got some diapers going on.

• 53:50Jefferson Fisher?

  I can't tell them to go get ready for bed and they go do it. So that, that is,

• 53:53Speaker 02

  Oh, how nice. They listen to you? What a dream.

• 53:55Jefferson Fisher?

  That is, yeah, no, they, they don't. And my, my favorite is, uh, when my wife will, you know, Sierra will do something of like, okay, Mr. Communication, like if I totally blow it like

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Stop. Amazing. That she calls you out.

• 54:11Jefferson Fisher?

  It's awesome. That, I do, I really do. Awesome. Claire, thank you so much.

• 54:17Speaker 02

  Thank you for your time.

• 54:18Jefferson Fisher?

  I look forward to staying in touch.

• 54:19Speaker 02

  Great to talk to you. Likewise.