452: Payton McNabb—Enough of This Crap!

Mike sits down with former high school volleyballer Payton McNabb, who was knocked unconscious by a spike to the face, delivered by a male competing on the girls' team, and woke up in the middle of a national controversy. What followed wasn't just a concussion and long-term neurological damage. It was a brutal, firsthand lesson in biology, politics, and the high cost of pretending that reality is up for debate.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Mike Rowe?

  Hey guys, it's The Way I Heard It. I'm Mike Rowe and this episode is called Payton McNabb, Enough of This Crap. And to be perfectly clear, right out of the gate, Chuck, I'm not quoting our guest. I am merely projecting my frustration onto her situation and speaking on what I think could well be the behalf of many, many other Americans who have had it up to here with this nonsense.

• 0:28Speaker 01

  Well, certainly this American, and I've had it as well. The point is, the crap to which you refer is men and boys playing women's and girls' sports. No, thank you. Enough.

• 0:41Mike Rowe?

  Actually, one small tweak to that. What I've had it with is the ginger-ness and the tiptoeing. And I'm afraid and hopeful, if I'm being honest, that we are going to live long enough to look back and see what a colossal failing this has been on the part of our country and on the part of decent, rational, compassionate, kind-hearted people who just acquiesced and became the townspeople in the emperor's new clothes and just sat there and watched while

• 1:26Mike Rowe?

  this dialogue spun out of control and where otherwise reasonable people actually began to weigh in around a science-based conversation and just twisted themselves into knots trying to make it plausible that men and women should compete against one another in sports.

• 1:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49Mike Rowe?

  What a madness. The madness of crowds. That's how this is going to be remembered, I think. And man, just listening to Peyton tell her story and watching the video of her getting creamed in the face by a volleyball.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  She was really hurt. She was really hurt.

• 2:08Mike Rowe?

  Could have killed her.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11Mike Rowe?

  If you don't know what we're talking about, you're about to hear it from the horse's mouth, as it were. Payton McNabb is a young woman who has been thrust into a spotlight. Originally, I think, taken up by Riley Gaines, who's been a guest on this podcast. She was the most outspoken swimmer, who's just said enough already with Will Thomas. The biolo- Listen to me. I can't even help myself. The biological male, I was about to say.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  I know, right?

• 2:40Mike Rowe?

  Yeah. That's what I mean, man. That's what I mean. We've all been so weird, like, almost, we were under a spell, you know?

• 2:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:51Mike Rowe?

  To the point where we couldn't say male and female anymore. We started to say a biological male. What in the world? How do we get this behind us, once and for all? I hope conversations like this will help.

• 3:05Speaker 01

  I hope so, too. And, listen, she states her case very eloquently, and she seems like she has a very good heart. She doesn't want to hurt anybody's feelings, but she's not going to lie in order to do that. And I feel that's what a lot of people have been asked to do, is to perpetuate a lie for the sake of not hurting other people's feelings. And she lays it out there.

• 3:28Mike Rowe?

  She does. But the trail has been blazed. I want to just give a shout out to the Independent Women's Forum, who has done great work around this and a lot of other causes. My partner, Mary Sullivan, who is a member of that forum. Riley Gaines, who has really stepped into a really important role, I think. It'll be interesting to see where she takes her career now. And Payton McNabb, and lots of other girls who had the courage to step up and tell their story in a really unfriendly, very threatening environment. And, yeah, sorry if my slip is showing a bit more than normal, but if I sound frustrated, it's really because

• 4:11Mike Rowe?

  I'm frustrated with myself. I never really thought that any of this made a lick of sense. But, like a lot of other people, I kind of kept my mouth shut for a while and watched things play out. But we can't do that anymore. There is no sensible reason why boys and men should be allowed to compete with girls and women. Period. Hard stop.

• 4:38Mike Rowe?

  The end. Except it's the beginning. Enough of this crap with Payton McNabb. You're gonna love her, and you're gonna meet her right after this.

• 4:52Mike Rowe?

  Couple of weeks ago, on this very podcast, I talked with Brooke Rollins, our Secretary of Agriculture, about the incredibly complicated business of delivering affordable beef to our citizens without disadvantaging American ranchers. We also discussed the very controversial decision to import 300,000 metric tons of ground beef from various foreign countries and the maddening policy that allows meatpackers to label imported meat as a product of the USA. Well, shortly after that conversation, one of my sponsors, Good Ranchers, reported an unusually high level of interest in their product. And this is not surprising.

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• 6:42Mike Rowe?

  Hi Peyton.

• 6:43Speaker 03

  Hi.

• 6:44Mike Rowe?

  Thank you for doing this.

• 6:45Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 6:46Mike Rowe?

  For coming out here to big bad California. Have you been here before?

• 6:50Speaker 03

  No, first time.

• 6:51Mike Rowe?

  Yeah?

• 6:52Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:52Mike Rowe?

  What do you think?

• 6:53Speaker 03

  Uh, I don't know how people live here.

• 7:00Mike Rowe?

  What have you seen so far? Did you land today or did you get here yesterday?

• 7:03Speaker 03

  I just landed right before I got here. So I didn't really get to see much, but it's nice. It's pretty.

• 7:09Mike Rowe?

  It's pretty?

• 7:09Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:10Mike Rowe?

  Weather's nice?

• 7:11Speaker 03

  Weather's nice.

• 7:11Mike Rowe?

  But it's not, uh, it's not North Carolina, is it?

• 7:14Speaker 03

  No.

• 7:14Mike Rowe?

  That's home?

• 7:15Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:16Mike Rowe?

  What town?

• 7:16Speaker 03

  Murphy.

• 7:18Mike Rowe?

  Where's Murphy?

• 7:19Speaker 03

  It's like all the way west. It's on the Georgia and Tennessee border.

• 7:25Mike Rowe?

  Wow. Were you guys impacted by Helene?

• 7:28Speaker 03

  It actually just missed us. It hit, um, my college town over. I went to Western Carolina and it hit Asheville pretty bad. So like that area, it missed us and then it hit parts of East Tennessee.

• 7:42Mike Rowe?

  Are you friendly with people who were just really seriously impacted by that thing?

• 7:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:47Mike Rowe?

  I just ask them because I've been meaning to get there for the last year and, um, I just saw something on YouTube the other day. There's a video. It's called "It's Still in Ruins" and I think it's really important. It's just a guy with a camera just going through some of those little towns. I don't think people understand how bad it was.

• 8:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, people are still like living in campers on the side of the road.

• 8:09Mike Rowe?

  It's crazy.

• 8:10Speaker 03

  And it's been like a while. So it's really sad.

• 8:14Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 8:15Speaker 03

  The Amish from like Pennsylvania, I think, a lot of them came down and rebuilt a bunch of little houses, which was really nice and helpful.

• 8:24Mike Rowe?

  I'm just so blown away by the generosity of people, you know? There are so many people who have left their jobs and like literally moved to some of these areas and they've just been volunteering every single day.

• 8:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:40Mike Rowe?

  Getting people, everything from diapers to formula to food. I mean, it's just still, it's just a heck of a thing.

• 8:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's been awesome to see it. Like the whole community just came together because... The government didn't really help during this time. Like, no one was really talking about it. And I think everyone kind of just saw that and they really came together from all over. Like, we had people, my cousins from Arkansas coming in and bringing stuff and people from all over, just making their trips.

• 9:11Mike Rowe?

  Well, speaking of talking about stuff that nobody wanted to talk about for a long time, you've been awfully chatty out in the world there, haven't you?

• 9:19Speaker 03

  I have, yeah.

• 9:21Mike Rowe?

  I, uh, I saw you in, was it Austin? What was it, like, two or three months ago?

• 9:27Speaker 03

  I think it was a couple of weeks ago.

• 9:29Mike Rowe?

  Oh, was it really?

• 9:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:30Mike Rowe?

  I'm under a lot of pressure, Paige.

• 9:32Speaker 03

  It's okay. I think it was a few weeks ago.

• 9:35Mike Rowe?

  I think it might have been a month. Why were you there? You were there with your friend, uh, Amy, who's there?

• 9:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, we were there, um, speaking on the, this bill that we were getting, trying to get passed in Texas, the Women's Bill of Rights. And it just defines women and gets that taken care of. We have a lot of bills that Independent Women's Forum is, and Independent Women just in general, because they have the three different things. They're working really hard to get all these, like, state legislation passed all over the place. So we went and spoke with Texas Values and, um, had a whole press conference and everything.

• 10:15Mike Rowe?

  What was that like? I mean, that must have been, was that the first time you've been in a state capital, talking about an issue that matters a lot to you?

• 10:22Speaker 03

  So that week, I was also in Michigan, doing the same thing. And I've been to quite a few states doing all this or testifying for state bills. So, um, I've done quite a bit of that. I've done a couple in North Carolina, and that's when the whole thing started. The first time I ever did it was at the legislature, or the North Carolina General Assembly. And that was the first time I ever said anything. So it really just started from there. That's when I met Raleigh.

• 10:51Mike Rowe?

  You met Riley Gaines.

• 10:52Speaker 03

  At the general assembly.

• 10:54Mike Rowe?

  Nice.

• 10:54Speaker 03

  This was like right after I turned eighteen. And my parents said, I can do, like I can make that decision if I want to say anything or not. And I didn't think it was gonna be at the general assembly, but I agreed and then it all just exploded from there.

• 11:09Mike Rowe?

  Funny how things happen. Things happen fast.

• 11:12Speaker 03

  Very fast.

• 11:13Mike Rowe?

  I mean, I hate to ask you to tell the story again, but I, I don't know how many of my listeners really

• 11:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:19Mike Rowe?

  understand exactly what happened. I know I was sitting at home when I saw the footage of that volleyball game. And I just, I mean, it was so many different feelings at the same time. I was surprised. I was worried. For you, I didn't know who you were, but I just thought that just doesn't look good at all. And then I was angry, you know?

• 11:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:42Mike Rowe?

  And then I was just kind of worried about the whole country and how we had seemingly come to this place where we were just so at odds over something that seemed so, so simple.

• 11:54Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 11:55Mike Rowe?

  So, in your own words, what happened and how did you wind up becoming an advocate?

• 12:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, so my senior year of high school, this happened like the first week, so September first, two thousand twenty-two, I went into this volleyball game. So we'd been playing against this guy for four years. It was legal in North Carolina, so there was nothing we could do about it.

• 12:24Mike Rowe?

  So this is a guy and he's playing for what team?

• 12:27Speaker 03

  Highlands High School.

• 12:28Mike Rowe?

  Highlands High School.

• 12:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's another high school in North Carolina.

• 12:32Mike Rowe?

  Right.

• 12:33Speaker 03

  And, I mean, I don't want to say I got used to it because that wasn't really it. So we had COVID hit our freshman year. And then that kind of messed up my first half of high school. So everything was kind of weird anyway. We didn't really know. It was rumored and he didn't hit puberty until like junior year, I would say. So then it was really like, it was beyond noticeable at this point. And at first they were kind of like, they kept him as a libero and hit him in the back, so it really wasn't that

• 13:05Mike Rowe?

  What's that mean?

• 13:06Speaker 03

  big of a deal. So he only played back row. He was like, like a lot of times when there's a hitter or something who can't really play back row, the libero will go in for them.

• 13:16Mike Rowe?

  Hmm.

• 13:16Speaker 03

  And that's the one that has like the different shirt on. Anyway.

• 13:19Mike Rowe?

  Oh, okay.

• 13:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. So he was that for the first couple of years and then he started hitting and it was like very obvious that that was a guy. And, you know, my coaches did not agree or or administration did not agree with it whatsoever. We had to practice differently in order to prepare just for this guy. Like their team wasn't that good. He was the main reason why they're winning. And I was one of the captains on the team, so being a senior and a captain, me and the other captain tried to be as motivating and as we possibly could be and positive. Tried to just get them to get through it because we had a really young team that year and they were scared to play him.

• 14:05Speaker 03

  So our coaches said, just get a hand on the ball. Like, we weren't even worrying about returning it at this point. She just wanted us to touch it. And he spikes the ball and it hits me right in the face. It knocks me unconscious for thirty-ish seconds. My body's in a fencing position, which happens a lot. It's like how your body reacts to a brain injury. It happens a lot like in football and stuff like that. And everyone swarmed me. The whole gym went completely silent. Thank the Lord, that was the only game my parents did not go to.

• 14:40Mike Rowe?

  Oh, boy.

• 14:41Speaker 03

  Because they, I don't know how they would have reacted with that. The other team's laughing. I'm unconscious. My team's like on the verge of tears. Yeah. And I didn't know all this until after, but my team is like traumatized about what just happened. And the trainer wakes me up. He asked me what just happened to me and I said, well, the boy on y'all's team just knocked me out. Like, that's what just happened.

• 15:10Mike Rowe?

  This is the trainer on the other team.

• 15:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:13Mike Rowe?

  Why is he talking to you? Why isn't the trainer on your team?

• 15:16Speaker 03

  Cause it was at their gym, so we didn't have our trainer there. Yeah.

• 15:19Mike Rowe?

  It's an away game.

• 15:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was an away game. So. After I said that, he just like went completely blank and then he rushed me off the court. He did one little finger test on me and said I was all good and can go back into play.

• 15:33Mike Rowe?

  Come on.

• 15:33Speaker 03

  After being unconscious on the floor, like they knew.

• 15:36Mike Rowe?

  What's the finger test? So he holds up the finger and moves it?

• 15:38Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:38Mike Rowe?

  And he's looking at your eyes following it?

• 15:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:41Mike Rowe?

  And based on that expert medical diagnosis?

• 15:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:43Mike Rowe?

  He determined you were good to go?

• 15:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:46Mike Rowe?

  What'd you do?

• 15:47Speaker 03

  I obviously did not go back in. My coaches were like, absolutely not. And I stayed out and uh my adrenaline was just pumping and the freshman setter had to go in and finish the game for me. They of course did not take him out. And she's on the verge of tears because she just saw what happened to me and now she has to go in and play that exact position. So it was just horrible. And then after um I went home, my parents met me, met the bus halfway. And I just continued to get worse. The North Carolina concussion protocol says that I had to stay home for a few days and see if it got better or worse before going to the doctor.

• 16:32Mike Rowe?

  I've read this, like you wear sunglasses and sleep as much as you want, but why would they do that? Why wouldn't they just wanna see you straight away?

• 16:41Speaker 03

  I don't know. But my dad's like, okay, cuz he's also a paramedic. And so he's trying to do as much as he can. He, so I'm sleeping a lot, I'm wearing sunglasses inside and out. And it just continues to get worse. So I go to my primary doctor and she immediately refers me to a neurologist who told me that I had a brain bleed, a concussion and permanent whiplash.

• 17:07Mike Rowe?

  Permanent whiplash?

• 17:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:09Mike Rowe?

  What does, I mean, I think I know what that means, but I, so it means that your neck hurts to this day?

• 17:14Speaker 03

  Yeah. I had to go and my body was just like always out of line. And my neck would get stiff and it wouldn't turn all the way and just stuff like that. I had to go to the chiropractor weekly for like a couple of years, maybe a full year and then a little bit after. And that helped a lot. Um, so that's helped with it, but. Yeah, and I never played volleyball again. Then my doctors told me not to ever play sports again. But this was my senior year and I was hoping I was gonna play college softball.

• 17:49Mike Rowe?

  Right, you weren't just, I mean.

• 17:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:51Mike Rowe?

  You were jock, basically, like you played whatever, right?

• 17:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, I played every sport and that I could. And that's not uncommon from the school, like the place where I'm from because like the same girls were on every team. We had to play for there to be a team.

• 18:06Mike Rowe?

  Right.

• 18:07Speaker 03

  So like, I was committed to playing. I did not wanna give that all up just because of what happened and my parents. We had a really hard time navigating that. I come from like a really unique place. It's very community, family based, like very family involved in the school and stuff like that.

• 18:25Mike Rowe?

  Murphy.

• 18:26Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 18:26Mike Rowe?

  How many people in the town?

• 18:28Speaker 03

  I don't know how many are in the town, but my graduating class was thirty. Public school.

• 18:33Mike Rowe?

  Yeah. So everybody, everybody knows.

• 18:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:38Mike Rowe?

  Everybody knows everybody.

• 18:39Speaker 03

  Everybody and everything. So, yeah, my cousin was my basketball coach and that was what was coming up next. So he really watched me. I wanted to play, so they kinda used that as like physical therapy for me. I had to practice to the side by myself, or he would have to tell them like they can guard me but just can't touch me. Like I could only do so much. And I tried to just ease my way back into it. I think that helped a lot with my mobility and stuff, but.

• 19:14Mike Rowe?

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• 20:38Mike Rowe?

  Chuck, do you have the video by any chance? Sure. If you can find that. By the way, the Independent Women's Forum has an amazing, it's about 15 minutes long, I think. We're not going to watch the whole thing. I just want people to see the moment you've just described, so they can understand what it is, if you missed it. Did you sit and watch the rest of the game?

• 20:59Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:00Mike Rowe?

  Who won?

• 21:01Speaker 03

  They did.

• 21:02Mike Rowe?

  Huh. Remember the score?

• 21:04Speaker 03

  No.

• 21:06Mike Rowe?

  What do you remember about? I just can't, I'm just trying to imagine, like, there's a referee, right?

• 21:14Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. One of the referees ended up stepping down because of what happened. He didn't want to be a part of that.

• 21:22Mike Rowe?

  Good for him.

• 21:23Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:24Mike Rowe?

  You have a young girl who's unconscious. You have a team of people laughing.

• 21:29Speaker 03

  Mm.

• 21:29Mike Rowe?

  Never mind all of the, you know, politics surrounding

• 21:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:33Mike Rowe?

  the guy. But I mean, the whole thing just seems so impossibly impossible.

• 21:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:39Mike Rowe?

  I mean, did you meet the guy? Did he talk to you, apologize?

• 21:45Speaker 03

  No, he never apologized. After I spoke out for the first time, he texted me on Instagram and said that, basically like I was obsessed with the situation. He's living rent-free in my head and stuff like that.

• 22:00Mike Rowe?

  The guy texts you?

• 22:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:05Speaker 03

  And said that.

• 22:06Mike Rowe?

  Oh, my God.

• 22:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, I didn't respond.

• 22:10Mike Rowe?

  I probably should have asked you before we started, because I don't know what the rules are. But do we, do you ever say his name? Is he discussed? Is it a secret?

• 22:19Speaker 03

  Um, I usually don't, just because.

• 22:23Speaker 03

  I don't know, I just never really saw like a point in it. He, he got a bunch of school, full ride scholarships to play women's volleyball, Kennesaw State and George Mason University. And after I spoke out, um, and they just found out that he was a guy, they took the scholarships away. So he kind of went like off the radar.

• 22:48Mike Rowe?

  Unbelievable.

• 22:49Speaker 03

  Yeah. And he posted a few TikTok, a couple TikToks, I'll have to show you. And he goes through this long list about what happened his senior year and he talks about himself, like he got all these scholarships taken away because the coaches found out he was a tranny and stuff like that. So I hear a lot saying how it's never been verified that it was a guy or whatever. And people were trying to say he was intersex and or really just was a girl. And I'm like making it all up or whatever, but he even admits it himself.

• 23:31Speaker 03

  And we already knew because one, it was obvious, but two, their athletic director told us.

• 23:37Mike Rowe?

  Their athletic director knew for sure.

• 23:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 23:43Mike Rowe?

  It's just all so bizarre. All right, let's watch this real quick.

• 23:49Mike Rowe?

  That was fast.

• 23:52Mike Rowe?

  Oh, and there you are with Bill and Dana. How soon after were you on Fox talking about that?

• 24:00Speaker 03

  Um, this was right after I graduated high school, actually, because that was my first time flying. I went to New York for that.

• 24:09Mike Rowe?

  How was that?

• 24:10Speaker 03

  It was nice. My dad's first time flying too.

• 24:13Mike Rowe?

  And that's your mom and dad there. Here it is again. All right. That's him and that's you.

• 24:22Mike Rowe?

  Yeah. Well, what year was it?

• 24:26Speaker 03

  Twenty twenty-two.

• 24:28Mike Rowe?

  God, what a time that was, man. It seems like a...

• 24:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:32Mike Rowe?

  I can't believe that was just three years ago.

• 24:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's been crazy.

• 24:36Mike Rowe?

  Okay. So then, that's what happens, and you're diagnosed. And when do you know that you're gonna be living with permanent whiplash? And, and what does it mean to have a brain bleed at this point?

• 24:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. Uh, I found out like the next week, uh, when I finally got to go to the neurologist. And it was really hard. Like, the symptoms were a lot worse at first. I had really bad memory loss. I still have pretty bad cognitive issues. I have to get extra help in school. And that was never a problem. I was always very good at school and, um, staying on top of everything and never forgetting anything. And now it's just like, completely different. I've kinda learned how to navigate it. It's my new normal. But, you know, my parents always say I'm just never, like, I'm just not the same kid anymore.

• 25:32Mike Rowe?

  Is it difficult for you to access memories or maths?

• 25:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:37Mike Rowe?

  Or how does it manifest exactly?

• 25:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's hard. I, I can't, like, my memory is still pretty bad. Um, it's just like retaining information. It's hard for me to, like, hold on to it. I was never good at maths, so that was on me. But it's gotten a lot better. My balance was really bad. I had to go get my glasses redone. Like, I had to test separately at school in another room, and I had to get extra time on tests.

• 26:06Mike Rowe?

  Your parents must have been pissed.

• 26:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:08Mike Rowe?

  I mean, just, I just can't imagine.

• 26:11Speaker 03

  Very. Yeah.

• 26:12Mike Rowe?

  And your teammates? And, like, when did you feel like something had to be done? When did you want to become involved in this movement?

• 26:24Speaker 03

  It took me a little sec- a little while to think about it. This happened the beginning of September. And I spoke out like that next April. I turned eighteen that March. So this was, it was shortly after, but I'd made the decision by that time because I didn't wanna get involved cuz I was about to finish my senior year and go to college and I didn't know what I wanted to be.

• 26:49Mike Rowe?

  You wanted to be an eighteen year old girl who didn't get hit in the face with a volleyball at about ninety miles an hour.

• 26:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's what I wanted. And, you know, public speaking was never my thing. The only class I'd ever failed was public speaking.

• 27:04Mike Rowe?

  You're kidding me? Oh, my god. So now, I mean, you realize you're kind of speaking publicly for a living.

• 27:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. Now, so now it's like, it's so funny how that works out, but that was the only class I'd ever failed. So public speaking was not in my radar whatsoever, but just the thought of this happening to my younger sister, Avery, who's about to be a junior in high school. She also plays three sports and it's been hard for me to talk about how it really affected me and like, I never wanna be seen as playing a victim or feeling sorry for myself. Like, I was never raised like that and I never wanted to be seen like that. So it was kind of hard for me to share my story at first because I didn't want people to feel sorry for me. But then I had to realize like

• 27:55Mike Rowe?

  This thing did happen.

• 27:56Speaker 03

  It did happen and it is real. And I figured if I'd shared my story, at least it could help one other girl and that would be good enough for me. So that's what kind of pushed me to do it. I prayed a lot about it and I thought like, what a waste that would have been if I just didn't say anything and this was still, you know, allowed in, in North Carolina or I feel like my, my story has

• 28:28Speaker 03

  It's made people really be like, like this is a real life thing and it's actually happening everywhere. It's happening in rural North Carolina. Like, that doesn't happen there. And we definitely did not know what to do in that situation because we, that doesn't happen. Like, we didn't know to deal with, how to deal with it. So.

• 28:48Mike Rowe?

  I mean, you're not supposed to know how to deal with it. You're seventeen years old.

• 28:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:52Mike Rowe?

  You know, but the teachers didn't know how to deal with it. The governor didn't know how to deal with it.

• 28:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:59Mike Rowe?

  The assembly people didn't know how to deal with it. The superintendent of the school, the principal, your teachers, your parents and all your parents' friends, no one, they were watching a thing happen right in front of them.

• 29:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:13Mike Rowe?

  And it's kind of extraordinary, right? Because you just, you can't deny it's happening. You can't seem to stop it from happening. And now it's happened. And so people are still like scrambling to make sense of it. I'll tell you something, full disclosure, Peyton, I, when I saw what happened to you, my first thought was, I would really like to, to talk to this young woman. And then I talked to Riley. She came on to the podcast. Did you know her back then? Well, like, did you know of her or what?

• 29:48Speaker 03

  So I met her when I, at the General Assembly. So when I talked for the first time, that's when I met her. I hadn't heard of her.

• 29:55Mike Rowe?

  You didn't know about her story?

• 29:57Speaker 03

  No.

• 29:57Mike Rowe?

  Okay. So what happened to me was, we had a great conversation and it really stirred up as much controversy as I ever stir up, which is not that much really. But then the election happened and then the president signed whatever he signed. And my partner, Mary, was there. I think that's probably where, you know, she was in DC with you guys, the Independent Women's Forum. By the way, I don't know if you know this about me, but I was awarded the Distinguished Gentleman Award.

• 30:32Speaker 03

  Ooh, okay.

• 30:33Mike Rowe?

  By the Independent Women's Forum, back, I don't know, six, seven years ago. I know about the organization. I think what they're doing is great. Being a fan of both women and independents. I love those two things smashed together.

• 30:45Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 30:46Mike Rowe?

  But I didn't think that maybe it was necessary to have this conversation again, given the fact that this bill was signed and like the country seemed to have come to its senses. But we really haven't. This is still happening.

• 31:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:03Mike Rowe?

  And, and so, okay, we'll keep talking about it. But where are we, in your opinion, in the road to getting like a real consensus? Like, where's the fight now? Why are you guys still? What are you trying to accomplish legally?

• 31:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:23Mike Rowe?

  With what you're doing?

• 31:24Speaker 03

  Well, the executive order was amazing. Huge step in the right direction. And I was so thankful to be a part of that whole thing. And I'm thankful that we have an administration that was willing to see it for how important it is. But, you know, that's not permanent. And there's a lot of states who aren't even acknowledging it, like California and Michigan and all these other states that are just straight up refusing to do it. And it's still happening today. So, you know, I think with more and more stories coming out almost every other day,

• 32:06Speaker 03

  I think we're in a way better spot than we were, of course, like a couple of years ago. I think more and more people are, have spoke up and are less afraid to say something. I think like before, we were in this weird place where no one could say anything. If it was the slottest bit controversial, it would just be the end of the world. You're canceled, like everything. And I think now people have just realized how, how insane it is to not be allowed to talk about reality. And I think, I think we're moving in a good direction.

• 32:48Speaker 03

  More people every day are, are willing to say no. And we see the girls, like those girls that stepped down from the podium and the one that stepped up on the first place podium after losing to the Hernandez boy.

• 33:04Mike Rowe?

  Tell me that story, just so people understand exactly what's your.

• 33:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, so A B Hernandez was that guy who, in California, that was competing with the women.

• 33:16Mike Rowe?

  And what's for?

• 33:18Speaker 03

  Uh, track and film.

• 33:19Mike Rowe?

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:19Speaker 03

  And he was, of course, dominating. So many girls are. Getting left off even qualifying because of one position that he's taking, or they're, you know, missing out on championship titles because of him. And California's governor Gavin Newsom even admitted that it's a, he sees it as a fairness issue, but chooses to do zero about it. And Hernandez got up on the first place podium and people were booing. And when he stepped down, I can't remember her name, but this brave girl who had gotten

• 34:02Speaker 03

  second, but really had gotten first, stood up on the, took her place on the first place podium and everyone like, the whole crowd roared.

• 34:11Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 34:12Speaker 03

  I think parents are getting upset, as they should have been. I think that's been a big thing. I think the parents really showed out these past couple of times and are just saying like, no, we're not putting our daughter in this position because it's just not right, it's not fair, and it's not safe.

• 34:33Mike Rowe?

  How have the politicians reacted that you've testified before? I'd like to talk about initiative, if I could, for just a moment. Here at MicroWorks, we value it a great deal. In fact, it's the most important quality we look for in our work ethic scholarship applicants. But everybody wants it. I'm talking about the, the quality in a lift driver that inspires him or her to carry your bags to the door without even asking, or the grocery clerk who shows you where an item is on the shelves, or a doctor who personally calls you to explain your test results. If you're hiring, you want to encourage initiative because it's invaluable.

• 35:18Mike Rowe?

  And ZipRecruiter has a way to allow a candidate to tell you, in their own words, why they're interested in your job. Not just why they're qualified, but why they're interested. This is a way that allows the best candidates to distinguish themselves from the competition in a great way. Way for you to separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were. Right now, you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/row. ZipRecruiter is the number one hiring site, in large part because of this new initiative that shows you the most interested, qualified candidates first. So you meet the right people faster. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within one day. Try it for free. ZipRecruiter.com/row.

• 36:03Mike Rowe?

  Meet your match on ZipRecruiter.

• 36:06Speaker 02

  Build your team, build it sooner. Meet your match at ZipRecruiter. Try it free.

• 36:18Speaker 03

  I think, so my most previous thing, I testified at the DOGE hearing a few weeks ago, and me and this other brave woman who, Stephanie Turner, she was the fencer who took a knee. And then she got disqualified from the tournament.

• 36:38Mike Rowe?

  So Stephanie was facing off against a man?

• 36:43Speaker 03

  Yes. Took a knee.

• 36:45Mike Rowe?

  Took a knee.

• 36:46Speaker 03

  Very respectful protest. She even said like, "I don't hate you, I just, this is a women's tournament and I'm only going to compete against women." And she was awesome, but they had that hearing with me, her, the USA fencing guy who was like over it in some way, they had to subpoena him because he wasn't going to come in. And then he got grilled because he's like saying how he was going against Stephanie and posting all this stuff about her and how they need to be more inclusive, USA fencing and all this stuff. Anyway, they grilled him.

• 37:26Speaker 03

  And the politicians that spoke to me, I mean, I only got questioned or even acknowledged by the Republican side. The Democrats didn't even ask us one question. We were in there for three hours. They didn't even acknowledge us until the cameras weren't rolling, like it would be a break, and then they would come over there. Congresswoman Stansbury and Crockett both came over to us and tried to...

• 37:54Speaker 03

  After just causing a whole scene and totally deflecting the whole situation and acting like it wasn't happening and belittling it, they belittled like Stephanie's sport, saying that fencing is like not a big deal and all the stuff, they were horrible. And then as soon as the cameras weren't rolling, they came up to us and thanked us for being there and apologized for like what we went through and

• 38:22Mike Rowe?

  But not on camera.

• 38:23Speaker 03

  Yeah. And they didn't get the reaction that they thought they were gonna get. Like me and Stephanie, we had just sat there for three hours and we didn't even know they knew we were there unless they had come over there and said something to us. So we weren't taking that. Like, I don't believe them. And I think the theatrics and trying to get media time, like, I don't know what they were doing, but

• 38:45Mike Rowe?

  Did you ask them?

• 38:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. Stephanie said, well, if you're really sorry, then why didn't you ask us the question?

• 38:52Mike Rowe?

  What'd they say?

• 38:53Speaker 03

  And they said that the Republican Party, the ones who invited us to be there, will ask us the questions.

• 39:03Speaker 03

  Like, what?

• 39:04Mike Rowe?

  Cowards.

• 39:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. So it's just so fake. And that's pretty much been the common theme between parties of who actually cares.

• 39:15Mike Rowe?

  Are you interested in politics beyond this yourself?

• 39:18Speaker 03

  Um, I don't know. I've always been interested enough in it to know what's going on, but I never wanted to go into it. But I'm starting to enjoy it.

• 39:29Speaker 03

  For the most part, I just never want to be a politician. I try to be as genuine and honest and down to earth as I can be. I think it's like, politics is such an easy way to fall into the very selfish, very all about themselves in order to get the political attention you needed to get to make it, I guess, but

• 39:51Mike Rowe?

  What sort of reaction have you gotten? Well, from both sides, because I imagine for a lot of young women and parents, I bet

• 40:02Mike Rowe?

  Are you a role model Payton McNabb? Have you become a role model for some and have you become an enemy to others?

• 40:11Speaker 03

  Yes, yes, I've definitely become an enemy. I hope I've become a role model. I try my best to be. I mean, the support has been overwhelmingly more than the the criticism.

• 40:22Mike Rowe?

  Tell me about it. How does it, do you get phone calls, letters, emails? What are you hearing?

• 40:28Speaker 03

  A little bit of all of it. A lot of messages from parents and coaches and athletes from all over who it's happening there and they don't know what to do. And thanking us for saying something about it because I mean, North Carolina is not the best, but we were able to speak about how we feel and and I'm from a place where, you know, I wasn't getting threatened into silence and I wasn't losing friends over saying something about it like everyone that I was friends with had a common sense, so I wasn't getting like friendless, but.

• 41:09Mike Rowe?

  Well, that's good. Nobody wants to be friendless, but I think, you know, it's just always interesting to hear from people that you've never met about something so personal.

• 41:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:21Mike Rowe?

  What do you say to to young women who reach out, who are who are either nervous or anxious? Or who ask you for advice? What do you tell them?

• 41:32Speaker 03

  I tell them that they don't owe silence to anyone standing up for themselves and for common sense and basic reality and all the whole list that goes down like that's okay and that's normal. And they should never feel scared to say that because at the end of the day, like, what's gonna happen? What are they gonna do to you? And if they do actually do something like you were in the right and what you were fighting for is on the right side of history, so I try to just be very open and honest. I try to help in any way I can.

• 42:11Mike Rowe?

  Are your parents encouraging in this?

• 42:14Speaker 03

  Very, very. So my dad was actually my principal.

• 42:19Mike Rowe?

  Really?

• 42:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:21Mike Rowe?

  In that school?

• 42:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:23Mike Rowe?

  Oh my.

• 42:24Speaker 03

  So he's in a horrible situation. He still feels the guilt from it, which there's nothing he could have done because it was legal at the time. So, but today, of course, he's saying like, he would have canceled the whole game, all the stuff.

• 42:39Mike Rowe?

  That's my question to like,

• 42:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:40Mike Rowe?

  I know you can't speak for him, but

• 42:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, he would have.

• 42:43Mike Rowe?

  But maybe you can. Like, is he hearing from other principals?

• 42:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:47Mike Rowe?

  Is he reaching out to other schools and saying, look, this is your school. You don't have to simply fall in line, you know?

• 42:55Speaker 03

  Well, during that time, I think it was like, what he was, him and my mom, they were so focused on getting a hold of anyone in our state that would be willing to help. It was crickets from everyone. No one was helping or, or even acknowledging what we were asking for. And they were just reaching out to anyone they could. Several schools in our area all canceled their games with this team after this happened to me. And I guess like, kind of in protest of it, but also because they don't want their girls getting knocked out unconscious by this guy. So we never played them again in volleyball. Our

• 43:35Speaker 03

  county voted on it. Our school board did like a whole, made all the teams and they, all the schools in the county vote on if they wanted to play against this team. And two out of the three voted no. So they ended up taking them off of our schedule, but they lost a lot of games because a lot of schools said no.

• 43:58Mike Rowe?

  This is so bananas, man. The whole thing is just so crazy.

• 44:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:04Mike Rowe?

  Well, tell me more about the Independent Women's Forum. For people who've never heard of them before, what's your understanding of what they do? And are you an actual member?

• 44:13Speaker 03

  Yes, I'm an ambassador. So I started off as a spokesperson, spokeswoman, and then I am now an ambassador for them. I mean, they're just amazing. They are getting stuff done all over the place. Like, we have an event in New Mexico next week for Women's Sports Week. And they're right on the front of the lines. They're getting all these bills into all these different states and working so hard to make policy change and, you know, find these stories and really elevate them to a higher level. And they're really good about that. Like, the features thing that the Kill Shot was on, they have really good ones of all

• 44:57Speaker 03

  kinds of different stories from across the board. Like, they do the prisons and they do the bathrooms and the sororities and all that stuff. So they've got it covered completely and they're very good at their job and getting the stories out.

• 45:13Mike Rowe?

  Yeah. Chuck, do you remember watching this in 2022?

• 45:18Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

• 45:20Mike Rowe?

  I remember talking to you about it, but it was such a weird time. We were locked down still.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:27Mike Rowe?

  And the world just felt awfully strange. But, yeah, I just... What do you remember feeling? Like, did you go straight to anger? Or were you just like, what do...

• 45:36Speaker 01

  The very first feeling was I was horrified. I was like, oh, you know, like, just you look at it and you go, that really had to hurt. And then I got angry. Then, once I realized that this was a biological man who was doing that.

• 45:50Mike Rowe?

  Is there any other kind?

• 45:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, that's a silly term. I don't understand why we...

• 45:56Speaker 03

  Come on now, Chuck.

• 45:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, sorry.

• 45:59Speaker 03

  Gotta get that language right.

• 46:03Mike Rowe?

  So, back to the team. I realize that things changed in the county and so forth, but what about your friends? What about like your, like, I don't know.

• 46:16Mike Rowe?

  Where do you go? If somebody gets hurt, I've played sports before, I've known friends who've been hurt. I know what to do in that world, but not in this circumstance, to be hurt like that and as a result of that.

• 46:29Mike Rowe?

  Did it make people less fearful to speak out?

• 46:32Speaker 03

  I think so. I think so for sure. My friends, they were just amazing, like through the whole thing. They were very gentle through the whole thing and watched me and helped my parents with me. And they're still very supportive with everything. So I'm very blessed to have a really great support system, really great community and family. I found a group, even when I went to college, I mean, and that was like a whole. My college experience was just like a whole other story, but I found a great group there who are very supportive.

• 47:11Mike Rowe?

  Good or bad in college?

• 47:13Speaker 03

  Bad.

• 47:15Speaker 03

  I don't go anymore. I'm online, I had to move home.

• 47:18Mike Rowe?

  What happened?

• 47:20Speaker 03

  Okay, so a year ago, this is like the last day of class. I walk out of the bathroom stall and there's a full dude in there with a dress. And I was like, I completely froze. I could not believe this was happening to me, who advocates and speaks for, you know, encourages other women and girls to call this out and say it's not okay and, because it's not.

• 47:48Mike Rowe?

  What college?

• 47:49Speaker 03

  Western Carolina.

• 47:50Mike Rowe?

  And you're a freshman at this point?

• 47:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm finishing my freshman year.

• 47:53Mike Rowe?

  Okay.

• 47:54Speaker 03

  And my first semester wasn't, it wasn't like, I didn't really find my place or whatever. Second semester, I joined the sorority and that's where I met all my friends. So I was actually starting to like school and.

• 48:12Speaker 03

  I questioned this guy because I was like, how hypocritical of me would that have been for me just to smile and wave and act like everything was great and walk out? And that's my whole stance. So I asked him why I was in there. It was honestly a pretty polite conversation. I posted it and it-

• 48:30Mike Rowe?

  What do you mean? You wrote about it?

• 48:32Speaker 03

  I posted the video.

• 48:33Mike Rowe?

  Oh, you made a video?

• 48:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, because I didn't know. I didn't know if he was like a student there. I didn't know because it's a public university. Anyone's in our bathroom and there's always field trips and little girls coming in and out of there or people's families coming in and out. And I was just like, this is happening at my school? Like, I couldn't believe that was happening there and I didn't know. So I videoed it because I didn't know how he was going to react and I didn't know. I didn't want anything to be said that didn't happen. So we had a pretty polite conversation, I guess. I just explained how he shouldn't have been in there and he's not a woman and he says he's a trans girl. It's just like this whole thing. I posted on X and it blew up.

• 49:18Speaker 03

  And I got a call like the next day from my sorority, having to set up a meeting with Nationals. I ended up eventually getting-

• 49:29Mike Rowe?

  National Sorority Organization?

• 49:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:36Mike Rowe?

  So as some of you may have heard, I went to Congress 16 years ago to testify before a House Subcommittee. And then again, a year later, to testify before a Senate Subcommittee about the need to reinvigorate the skilled trades with some kind of national effort that would make a more persuasive case for a lot of good jobs out there that didn't require a four-year degree. Well, 15 years later-

• 50:04Mike Rowe?

  I finally heard back from the government and I am delighted to tell you about a program called BuildFreedom.us. This is the national PR campaign that MicroWorks has been talking about for a decade and a half now, and it's focused on 300,000 or 400,000 excellent jobs in the defense industrial base. These are the electricians and the plumbers and the steam finners and the pipe fitters and the CNC operators and the shipbuilders and so forth. But in this case, all of those trades are focused on building out our national infrastructure through the defense industrial base. So people who are building our autonomous weapons, our planes, our ships, it's only

• 50:49Mike Rowe?

  a matter of national security and it's a very big deal. And on a personal level, it's really been very gratifying. Build Freedom donated $10 million to MicroWorks. The money's available right now for you if you want to pursue a skill that's in demand and work in the defense industrial base. I think it's an opportunity of a lifetime. Go to BuildFreedom.us, see what's available, and then apply for a scholarship from MicroWorks. The money's there, burning a hole in my pocket. Go get some. BuildFreedom.us.

• 51:19Speaker 03

  I didn't know, like it was like all out crazy stuff, but I met with them, had two different meetings. They ended up terminating my membership, saying I embarrassed them essentially. And they don't want to be associated with me and my hatred. And so I got kicked out of that. Then I had to fight a legal battle for nine months. Last fall semester, I had to move home and go online because people were trying to find where I lived and at school. I had to get monitored by the campus police until I moved home early. And...

• 52:01Speaker 03

  People were just trying to find me and do the same thing to me and like all this stuff. So the school didn't feel comfortable with my safety there either. So I did last fall semester online. I took this semester off and if I didn't just have a year left, I wouldn't go back because I don't know, college is like not. Anyway, I ended up winning that trial in this past January.

• 52:29Mike Rowe?

  Did it go to court?

• 52:31Speaker 03

  In school court, I guess. I had to hire an attorney. And then he had an attorney. We had a whole panel and a judge, court reader, like whole thing. And the judge like immediately had pronouns. So we didn't think we were gonna win at all. Even my lawyer was like, we're not gonna win. We ended up winning. So he was trying to get me charged with sexual harassment and expelled from school.

• 52:57Mike Rowe?

  The guy in the dress?

• 52:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:00Mike Rowe?

  So even though you had a cordial conversation?

• 53:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:03Mike Rowe?

  He decided to, to take it to the, uh, the next level?

• 53:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, he said my voice haunts him in his head. And he was hoping that, he thought he looked really cute that day and he was hoping that other girls would wanna be his friend and compliment his dress. And I was like.

• 53:23Mike Rowe?

  So, is this the video?

• 53:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:30Mike Rowe?

  That's a student?

• 53:31Speaker 03

  Yeah. And he is almost thirty years old, uh, just turned nineteen at the time.

• 53:38Mike Rowe?

  You're nineteen, he's thirty.

• 53:40Speaker 03

  Yeah. And, yeah, that was it.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  That's your video posted on X, right?

• 53:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:49Mike Rowe?

  How many views does that thing have? Five hundred sixty-nine thousand people see this?

• 53:55Mike Rowe?

  So that is why you get thrown out of the sorority and why the school starts to fear for your safety.

• 54:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, and the school was like, all on his side, basically. Like the investigator was on his side. Saying, cause I filed a report back after he reported me, I reported him. And they threw mine out and said it was like not important, any normal person would have a, would have a problem with this.

• 54:22Mike Rowe?

  Was there no consideration to what you had been through just two years earlier?

• 54:27Speaker 03

  No, yeah, there was zero consideration of that and I had to basically like prove that point. This past January and I had an amazing attorney who really worked hard on it and. Got all the facts out and we just laid out the law and I explained how I did not commit sexual harassment. But anyway, it was horrible.

• 54:52Mike Rowe?

  How do you think personally about, I mean, beyond your own personal experience? Are you sympathetic? Do you feel pity? Do you feel like, I mean, you know, there's another side, you know, there's another argument. I'm not gonna make it, but I'm just curious.

• 55:13Speaker 03

  For the trans movement in general?

• 55:15Mike Rowe?

  Yeah. I mean, you look, I mean, people can look at that, you know, and they can say, look, this is a person who's just.

• 55:23Mike Rowe?

  Doing their best, playing the cards they've got and the law is on their side. You know? We can have the whole conversation about whether or not all of that is the product of a warped analysis. Or you can look at it and say, well, maybe, do you think of these people as afflicted? Do you think, how do you, like, where do you put it?

• 55:46Speaker 03

  Um, well, I mean, personally, of course, I think it's all completely fake. I think it's a false reality and that's something that they struggle with and. It's really nothing, like, I don't care what people do with their own life, like, I'm not trying to. Ever tell people how they should be, but when it crosses over into.

• 56:08Speaker 03

  Me having to act like it's okay for them to feel better about themselves. And for them to come into my, our spaces, like, that's not okay. If he was just walking around like that, I wouldn't have talked to him if he was outside. But it's the fact that he was in the women's bathroom. And it's the fact that the first one was in a women's category, in women's sports. So that's the whole issue. And it can very easily be turned into transphobia or

• 56:40Speaker 03

  again, I don't know, like all those words, bigot, everything that you get called. But I'm Christian and I've always been taught to love everyone and so I try. Again, if, and we made this argument in the, in the case as well. If he would, if I would have just passed him in the hallway, I wouldn't have even probably looked over there. But it's just when it, when it affects me and when I'm getting told I have to act like I agree with it and act like everything's okay when it's not, I'm just simply not doing that.

• 57:17Mike Rowe?

  Yeah. Have you made new friends since you left college? And are you in a different sort of world now, a different ecosystem?

• 57:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm still friends with a lot of girls that were in my sorority. And they're fully on board with everything I did. And people in, at school in general. But I've made a lot of friends through this and just getting to travel around and meet a bunch of different people. That's probably been the best part about, one of the best things about this whole thing.

• 57:51Mike Rowe?

  Who do you admire?

• 57:53Speaker 03

  Um, I really do admire Raleigh. And I know that's probably like a basic answer, but she, I can't even describe how good she is or how good she's been for me in this. She's been such a great role model and someone I'm just very much strive to be like and hold myself like. I think she just does it incredibly well and she's very real and genuine. And she just really does care about all the right things. And um, just the way she handles it, everything is just very admirable, so.

• 58:36Speaker 03

  She's just as amazing off camera as she is on and I'm very thankful to call her a friend. And I'm very thankful to have had her along the way. She's just great.

• 58:49Mike Rowe?

  I understand. She's expecting.

• 58:51Speaker 03

  She is. She's gonna be the best mom and Louis is gonna be the best dad. Like, they're just gonna be the best parents ever. So I'm very, very excited.

• 59:01Mike Rowe?

  What are we gonna do about your speaking career? I'm still stuck on the idea that the one class you failed is public speaking.

• 59:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know. I don't know.

• 59:09Mike Rowe?

  Now you're doing podcasts and testifying here and there.

• 59:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:13Mike Rowe?

  Is there, I mean, is there a point, do you think, where, I don't know, I'm not a big fan of the expression, everything happens for a reason, but I do know that there's almost always a silver lining.

• 59:25Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, always. And I always try to look for that, too. Like, I do think everything, I think the Lord has a plan and everything and I try to follow it the best I can. Of course, it's not probably as much as I should or as perfect as it should be, but I try to follow that. Cause I have zero plans. I've had zero plans. I've just kinda went with where it goes and I think everything will just work out. But I've gotta make some kinda decision, cause I'm I need, I'm at the point where I have to make that decision.

• 59:59Mike Rowe?

  You probably are. How old are you now?

• 1:00:01Speaker 03

  I just turned 20.

• 1:00:02Mike Rowe?

  You just turned 20.

• 1:00:04Speaker 03

  I have a year left of school. If I, I mean, I will finish.

• 1:00:08Mike Rowe?

  Do you think you'll go back to the same school? Yeah, she's like, you know what, my parents might be listening to this. Yes, I'm going to finish.

• 1:00:16Speaker 03

  To my dad, I am finishing. But, no, I'm definitely not going back to that school. I don't know where I'm going. I'm thinking about Liberty or, I don't know, I would wanna stay probably in the South somewhere else, so.

• 1:00:34Mike Rowe?

  What do you love most about the South?

• 1:00:37Speaker 03

  Um, I love everything about it. I just love where I'm from. I love the family and just the, just, I love the mountains and I also work at a, at a marina when I'm at home. So I love being on the water and just being so close to everyone. Like that's exactly where I would want to raise a family, is somewhere like that.

• 1:01:01Mike Rowe?

  Well, I've been thinking about it and I've got the perfect job for you.

• 1:01:03Speaker 03

  Oh, perfect.

• 1:01:05Mike Rowe?

  I've had a few jobs, Peyton.

• 1:01:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:09Mike Rowe?

  I've been around. I've seen some things. I think you're gonna be an amazing cruise director.

• 1:01:14Speaker 03

  You think?

• 1:01:15Mike Rowe?

  Yes, like Julie on the Love Boat. If you haven't seen that, Google it. But you're gonna have to talk to guests on the boat. You're gonna have to be doing all kinds of PR for the boat or the ship. You'll be on the water all the time.

• 1:01:30Speaker 03

  Honestly, this is a great idea. I would have to go on a cruise first.

• 1:01:34Mike Rowe?

  You should go on a cruise first, just to make sure you don't get violently ill.

• 1:01:38Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:01:38Mike Rowe?

  Okay, but if you're already working on the water, you're gonna be fine.

• 1:01:41Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:01:41Mike Rowe?

  That's what you should do. You should go on a cruise. Uh, I think Norwegian, um, is a great line. You know, and I know they're all hiring right now.

• 1:01:51Speaker 03

  Oh, perfect. That's what I'll do then.

• 1:01:53Mike Rowe?

  Yeah. Yeah, let's find a cruise line for you. It's got its head screwed on straight.

• 1:01:58Speaker 03

  Perfect, yes.

• 1:01:59Mike Rowe?

  Get you Payton McNabb welcoming people aboard. We'll see you on the Lido deck. Today, you'd be, you'd be amazing.

• 1:02:07Speaker 03

  Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I think that's, that's my new, that's my new dream.

• 1:02:12Mike Rowe?

  Well, good. I think we just justified the whole trip to California. All right, well, is there anything, um, you wish I would have asked you that I didn't?

• 1:02:23Speaker 03

  Um.

• 1:02:24Mike Rowe?

  Is there anything you've been dying to share that you haven't?

• 1:02:27Speaker 03

  Let me try to think.

• 1:02:29Mike Rowe?

  I mean, I'm asking you this seriously because I know you're an ambassador to the IWF. And I'm a big fan, seriously, of that organization. I, I think they've accomplished and are trying to accomplish some really great things. And if the cruise director thing doesn't work out, obviously, they're, they're lucky to have you. But you're, you're gonna spend a lot of time, as you know, constantly, you know, thinking about big ideas and trying to figure out how to articulate them.

• 1:02:56Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:02:57Mike Rowe?

  And trying to figure out what's persuasive.

• 1:02:59Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:03:00Mike Rowe?

  That's really what you're gonna run into.

• 1:03:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:02Mike Rowe?

  It's one thing to believe something, but it's another thing to get somebody to, to listen to it.

• 1:03:08Speaker 03

  Hmm, absolutely.

• 1:03:10Mike Rowe?

  So how you gonna do all that?

• 1:03:12Speaker 03

  I don't know. I'm gonna, I don't know. I'm gonna have to keep asking you for advice.

• 1:03:20Mike Rowe?

  Hmm, well, that's why I'm here. No, you don't need advice from me. I think what you're doing is pretty great.

• 1:03:26Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:03:27Mike Rowe?

  And look, I mean that. I think, you know, events happen and there's a long list of stuff we can't control. A thing happened to you. It shouldn't have.

• 1:03:37Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:03:38Mike Rowe?

  But it did.

• 1:03:39Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:03:40Mike Rowe?

  And now, you're out in the world with it.

• 1:03:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:43Mike Rowe?

  Tell your story. Tell your story.

• 1:03:46Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:03:47Mike Rowe?

  And thank all of the other young women I met in the Capitol that day. If I don't see them again, I'm gonna see Amy.

• 1:03:53Speaker 03

  I'm excited for that, for you.

• 1:03:56Mike Rowe?

  Are you guys friends?

• 1:03:56Speaker 03

  She's the best.

• 1:03:57Mike Rowe?

  She's.

• 1:03:57Speaker 03

  That was my first time getting to spend time with her. It was in Austin.

• 1:04:01Mike Rowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:01Speaker 03

  And I love her. Like, I immediately loved her.

• 1:04:04Mike Rowe?

  How do you say her last name? I wanna make sure I pronounce her right. How do you say? Ichikawa. Amy Ichikawa. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. She has an amazing story, and I'm gonna jump into that, um, next time. But for now, welcome to California.

• 1:04:19Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:04:19Mike Rowe?

  You'll be staying here tonight as well?

• 1:04:21Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:04:22Mike Rowe?

  All right.

• 1:04:22Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:04:22Mike Rowe?

  Well, you enjoy yourself. Take a walk on the beach. Don't wander off too far, though. It's crazy out there.

• 1:04:28Speaker 03

  I'll jump on a cruise.

• 1:04:29Mike Rowe?

  Jump on a cruise. That's right, you know, you're, actually, you could take a walk down to Marina Del Rey. Is maybe two miles? Something like that, yeah. Yeah, just walk down to the, yeah, walk down, you walk through Venice, walk down to the pier there in Marina Del Rey. There are boats all over the place. Maybe you stow away on one.

• 1:04:48Speaker 03

  Maybe I will. I'll let you know.

• 1:04:51Mike Rowe?

  Maybe don't do it at night, though.

• 1:04:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, good to know. Thank you.

• 1:04:55Mike Rowe?

  Where can people go? What can people do to help in your efforts?

• 1:04:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, I just think anywhere on IW, they have great resources and they share, they keep me updated and keep everyone updated very well. So I think they have stuff on all social medias, or they have platforms on all social medias. And I think just keeping up with them pretty much get the gist of what's going on because they're on top of it.

• 1:05:21Mike Rowe?

  Yep. And if you'd rather watch the short version of it, there's a 15-minute film. It's called Kill Shot. It's on their website. That's, is it IWF.org, Chuck?

• 1:05:30Speaker 03

  IWF Features.

• 1:05:31Mike Rowe?

  IW Features? Oh. IWF.org? That is it?

• 1:05:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:37Mike Rowe?

  IWF.org will get you there.

• 1:05:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, you'll get there.

• 1:05:41Mike Rowe?

  Yeah, and then you'll find it. Thanks, Peyton.

• 1:05:45Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:05:46Speaker 02

  When you leave a review, only five stars will do. Not just one, or just two, or just three. We were hoping... Four more. As in, one more than the four. Oh, please, one more than four. Just a quick review with five stars, too. From a you, five stars will do.

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