Serena Williams on winning in business

Serena Williams doesn't just defy convention on the court. She’s also applying her competitive mindset to entrepreneurship and venture investing, recently rebranding her firm from Serena Ventures to StarFire Ventures. Serena joins Bob Safian to discuss how she identified the 16 unicorns now in her portfolio, what she looks for in founders, and how partnerships with companies from Nike to Ro fit into her broader vision. Recorded live at the Reckitt Catalyst event in Palm Beach, Serena also opens up about balancing business with family life—and why she still feels the pull of the tennis court. Visit the Rapid Response website here: https://www.rapidresponseshow.com/ See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 2:08Speaker 02

  The main thing that it takes to succeed over time is just the fact that you can't underestimate the power of hard work. A lot of people think, oh, this company, boom, they're now billions and billions of dollars, and it happened overnight. And that may have been the case in very few stories, but there's so many other stories where it didn't happen overnight. You have to work hard and you have to put in the time every single day. Tough days, easy days, you still have to show up.

• 2:38Bob Safian?

  That's Serena Williams, global icon, tennis champion, and a rising force in the world of venture investing. I sat down with Serena at the Wreckit Catalyst event in Palm Beach, Florida, to talk about what it takes to win as an entrepreneur in today's competitive marketplace and how she's trying to make a difference off the court. We talked about her work with Nike and Ro, the rebranding of her business as Starfire Ventures, and how she balances work and family, plus what's motivating what she calls her sporadic return to tennis. It's an engaging back and forth with a few firm volleys and some unexpected slices along the way. So let's get to it. I'm Bob Safian, and this is Rapid Response.

• 3:26Bob Safian?

  I'm Bob Safian. I'm here with Serena Williams. Serena, great to be able to chat with you today.

• 3:32Speaker 02

  It's so good to chat with you, Bob.

• 3:34Bob Safian?

  We first met long ago when I was the editor of Fast Company. You spoke at an event alongside then Nike CEO Mark Parker. And I remember walking backstage with you, and you had these incredible heels on. You are already plenty taller than me without the heels, but you had incredible heels. And I kept thinking, like, that's gotta be risky. That's gotta be dangerous. Like, I'm not a professional.

• 3:58Speaker 02

  I like to take the risks.

• 3:59Bob Safian?

  You just owned it.

• 4:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love risk.

• 4:02Bob Safian?

  You just owned it. You're known for your sense of culture and fashion, and also, of course, as a tremendous athlete. Fewer people know about Serena Ventures, your business.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  We're now Starfire Ventures.

• 4:16Bob Safian?

  Starfire Ventures.

• 4:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we've just rebranded ourselves. And now, you know what? I felt like Serena Ventures is great, but I wanted it to be bigger than me. And, you know, there's so many amazing people on the team, and there's so much that we do. And I felt like when you have a name to something, it can limit, you know, what you do. And I want it to live on. You know, I want this to be something that people look at years and years from now and just say, that is, they've done.

• 4:43Bob Safian?

  You don't think the name Serena's gonna live on? Surely it will.

• 4:46Speaker 02

  In a different way, you know what? It's gonna live on in a different way. I think it just gives us some freedom to do so much more. And we kept the SV, so it's still SV, because we also internally always say SV.

• 4:58Bob Safian?

  So Starfire has, I mean, you've backed something like 16.

• 5:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, you got it right.

• 5:04Bob Safian?

  Unicorns. So do you have an overarching philosophy as an investor? Or is it more sort of intuitive, instinctive?

• 5:13Speaker 02

  Oh, it's a little bit of both, but it's absolutely, I would say, 90% of philosophy. And then we do need some instinct, right? I do a lot of instinct, but I think my, I think my partner is definitely more, let's follow things to the T, which is great. So we make a really good team in that way.

• 5:35Bob Safian?

  When you and I were on stage with Mark Parker, you quipped that one day you would be the CEO of Nike.

• 5:43Speaker 02

  Did I say that?

• 5:44Bob Safian?

  You did.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  That's so crazy.

• 5:46Bob Safian?

  You did. So operating a big brand is no longer your aspiration? You like being an investor more?

• 5:52Speaker 02

  I wouldn't write that off. I wouldn't write that off.

• 5:57Speaker 02

  I wouldn't write that off, but I could not live in Portland, so I think I may have spoken too soon. Yeah, that's.

• 6:06Bob Safian?

  The weather there is not up to your sun in Florida.

• 6:09Speaker 02

  I need sun, I need, yes. And I, no. But one key word that you said was quit, so clearly wasn't serious about that.

• 6:19Bob Safian?

  Investing, you feel like, is that more sort of in keeping with your, with your spirit, with your goals than, than being an operator?

• 6:29Speaker 02

  I've loved that for years. Oh, my gosh. I think my first investment was like 14, 15 years ago. Now we're institutionalized, institutionalized investors on our cap table.

• 6:41Speaker 02

  And it's, it's a lot of work, but it's also rewarding when you see good results.

• 6:48Bob Safian?

  So you, today we're at the Reckitt's Catalyst Program in Florida. You're the inaugural entrepreneur in residence.

• 6:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 6:57Bob Safian?

  Mentoring a group of founders who are here. You've said being a mentor helps you as much as it helps them. Are there, are there things you've learned in the time down here?

• 7:07Speaker 02

  What I do every day in VC, we don't necessarily see a lot of the companies and a lot of founders like this that are solving so many problems for underrepresented people. And it is, it's so feel-good, you know? And every now and then, you'll get a company in the portfolio, like one in our portfolio is Isuzu, that does feel good, does do good, and is still a unicorn. Like, those are amazing, but realistically, those aren't, you don't, you don't see those every single day. We want to win. We want to make money for our LPs. But at the same time, it's so good to be a part of something like Reckitt Catalyst. Just so exciting to be a part of a bigger story and helping people.

• 7:53Bob Safian?

  You mentioned that Reckitt's got an emphasis on underrepresented founders. At SV, 70% or something of your portfolio is women or people of color as the founders? How much of that is about, like, financial calculation? That there's a particular opportunity because those communities aren't being seen? And how much of it is sort of a broader imperative for you?

• 8:15Speaker 02

  It's a broader imperative. We see different companies that most people don't get to see because they don't open the doors. So our team and the way we, the way I've hired our team, a lot of more women do feel comfortable coming to us. And by the way, a lot of those companies are doing very well.

• 8:35Bob Safian?

  Yes.

• 8:35Speaker 02

  You know, right now. And they wouldn't have the opportunity to do well if we didn't, we weren't on their cap table. And so for us, it's, it's not, we invest in everyone. We invest in people that look like you. We invest in people that look like me. It's just that we do see a lot of women and a lot of underrepresented founders because they have, they know that we'll hear their story. And we don't invest in them all, by no means. We only investing in winners. If you're, we don't feel the company's not going to return our fund. We're not going to invest in them. And that's just how we look at it.

• 9:12Bob Safian?

  This is not philanthropy.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  No, we don't. This isn't philanthropy.

• 9:15Bob Safian?

  Yeah.

• 9:16Speaker 02

  But women aren't doing business on philanthropy. And people, people of color, we're not doing business. We're doing business to make money. And it's sad, but that's, some people don't understand that.

• 9:27Bob Safian?

  It sounds like there's, there's opportunity there because other investors maybe aren't opening, aren't open to these, to these kinds of founders.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  It's not that they're not open to that. I wouldn't necessarily put another investor down. They just. Subconsciously don't see it, or they just subconsciously wipe it out. They're just not thinking about it. But we're thinking about everything. We're thinking about the next billion dollar company, the next trillion dollar company, and how to be on those cap tables as well.

• 9:58Bob Safian?

  You've had some tough moments yourself as an entrepreneur. S by Serena isn't around anymore. Win Beauty, which you launched with Altus or didn't get traction. How do you advise other entrepreneurs about the trouble spots? I mean, you certainly have always had to overcome trouble spots in your tennis. How do you advise them about that?

• 10:21Speaker 02

  S buys a choice. And when I made the decision to pause, because not all money is good money. And so our investor, great person, by all means, wonderful individual. But a lot of the things that I said as a VC investor wasn't taken. And everything that I said would happen, happened. And I was like, okay, this is not what I want. I'm going to take this off the market for now and pause. But me, I think when something doesn't work out for you, you are able to sit at places like Wreck it Catalyst and give great advice to people and let them know that really get to know who you're putting on your cap table.

• 11:03Bob Safian?

  You know, you can't be an entrepreneur or a business person. Like, nobody wins all the time, right? I mean, that is the reality of it.

• 11:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:12Bob Safian?

  Right?

• 11:12Speaker 02

  But you always learn from that. And I always say, I don't even like the word failure, because I don't feel that anything is a failure, as long as you keep trying.

• 11:21Bob Safian?

  And I guess you also have to, I don't know if this is the right term, but like, you sort of have to expect that you're going to fail sometimes. Like, you don't want to be going in there.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  I don't know if that's the right term, but I understand what you're saying.

• 11:32Bob Safian?

  Yeah.

• 11:33Speaker 02

  Right? It's like, it's not expecting to fail, but it's expecting challenges, maybe? Expect there to be a lot of tough challenges?

• 11:40Bob Safian?

  And not being stopped by them when it happens.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  Yes, and not being stopped by them and expecting.

• 11:46Bob Safian?

  If your knee hurts, you know, sometimes you can't do what you want to do, but that doesn't mean you're never going to do it.

• 11:50Speaker 02

  You can't do it, and you're never going to do it again. You know what I mean?

• 11:53Bob Safian?

  I don't know what I'm asking.

• 11:54Speaker 02

  I'm not sure what that question is. I'm not sure what in the world we're talking about either, but yeah.

• 12:01Bob Safian?

  So this Wreck It's Catalyst, it's focused on founders in the health and wellness space.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  And hygiene space as well, yes.

• 12:07Bob Safian?

  Yeah, I mean, your portfolio has included several health and wellness firms. If I have this right, Ritual, Factor, Will Perform. I know you've been a spokesperson for Row, who's CEO, Zach Rattano's been a guest on the show. And what kind of role do you see for yourself in the health space overall? I mean, why is it a focus area for you?

• 12:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, we all need it. And I think that if there's one thing everyone needs is health. Also, in our current portfolio, we have Teal Health, which is really specializing in cervical cancer testing at home, which is very uncomfortable when you go to the doctor to do that. But now you can do it at home. And we're realizing that a lot of women just don't do it because of the circumstances. Midi, Midi Health.

• 12:55Bob Safian?

  Sure, yes.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  Oh, my goodness, yes. Another unicorn. In particular with women's health, I think a lot of that piece of the pie has been left on the ground. And that's 50% of the population. So that's a huge opportunity. Just if you want to think of it in a monetary value, it's huge. But in addition to that, also just helping people is huge and helping women that has traditionally been forgotten. Me being a woman as well is like, obviously, I want my health and wellness, too. I have two daughters. I want them to have the optimum health and wellness that they can have as well. And how do we, you know, get there?

• 13:39Bob Safian?

  I mentioned your work with Row. Did you have any second thoughts about being a face for GLP-1s?

• 13:48Speaker 02

  Not at all, not at all. I feel like, and the more we do research on GLP-1s and the more people understand it's, I always said it's not, I mean, it is, does help you lose weight, but it is so much more than that, you know? And when I first started Row, there was a lot of things that I couldn't say, like, oh, I can't say that it helps with, you know, other things as well, because it was just like, the testing still wasn't out yet. But I'm like, my blood tests are so much better. My heart, like, I didn't even realize that I had, and I could have been a subject for heart disease. But once I started GLP-1, like, my test shows that I'm no longer a candidate for that. And diabetes and just so many different things.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  And also inflammation, like, it helps with that. I mean, it's just, it's helping in so many different ways that I just felt like, and even at the time, I didn't know some of that stuff and some more of the controversial things that I won't say that it helps with, but those studies are coming out soon that is helping with those things, too.

• 14:50Bob Safian?

  Yeah, yeah, no, it's like a miracle in so many ways and for a lot of people.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  It is, and for a lot of people. And it's just, yeah, so I'm a big believer in that. I've known Zach as well for many years. My husband did his round many years ago before they became Row. They were actually a different company at the time, and he invested in them. He invested in Zach, so I met him eight years ago. And so we always, Zach always wanted to work with me, and I always wanted to work with Zach, because I loved his origin story about how he started Row. And I remember sitting in our old office and thinking, this is amazing, man. Like, one day, the stars will align. And it happened to align with GLP-1s. And so we have a long history there.

• 15:33Bob Safian?

  You mentioned that your husband initially connected you, Alexis Ohanian, who co-founded Reddit. He's also an early-stage investor in 776, and he helped to found Initialized Capital. How much do you two talk about investing?

• 15:50Speaker 02

  We don't talk a lot about investing. He is, we like, as he says, we keep a church and state at home. You know, he's so busy, a lot of people, he works probably 20 hours a day, maybe more.

• 16:05Speaker 02

  So he's just a workaholic, which is great. And so I like to sack, leave our other time for just other things.

• 16:13Bob Safian?

  Yeah, I was curious, because I did a story once with Mark Zuckerberg and his wife, Priscilla, and they would have like a weekly date, basically, where they would talk business.

• 16:25Speaker 02

  Oh, nice, yeah.

• 16:26Bob Safian?

  I don't know whether that's nice or not, but it was their way of sort of segregating it.

• 16:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, in other words, so that's the time where they talk business, and the other time, they can just be themselves.

• 16:35Bob Safian?

  They can be themselves.

• 16:36Speaker 02

  I like that. I never, I never knew that.

• 16:40Bob Safian?

  I'm glad I could share something with Serena that she might find helpful. Her life is so jam-packed, it's daunting for even an outsider to grasp it. So how does she divide her time between work, family, and tennis? And does she have any advice about the future of the women's sports business? We'll talk about that and more after the break. Stay with us.

• 17:07Bob Safian?

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• 17:43Bob Safian?

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• 18:26Bob Safian?

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• 18:58Bob Safian?

  Before the break, Serena Williams talked about her investing efforts at Starfire Ventures and what she gets out of being an entrepreneur and residence for Wreck-It Catalyst. Now she talks about how she chooses brand endorsements, her ownership stakes in women's sports teams, and the boundaries she embraces in juggling the demands of her personal and professional life. Plus, why she's returned to tennis on what she calls a sporadic basis. Let's jump back in. Your Nike relationship makes me think about all the different brands that you've worked with over the years. To what extent was that a training ground for you as an investor? Not just Nike specifically, but overall, sort of trying to decide which brands to work

• 19:43Bob Safian?

  with and-

• 19:44Speaker 02

  Well, Nike was always on my list.

• 19:48Speaker 02

  I remember I even wore Nike before I was signed with them because I was trying to hint, hint. You know, I definitely wanted to be with them. And now I'm with them in a different way, in a bigger, in a bigger way.

• 20:00Bob Safian?

  When you're deciding for a brand that you're going to do work with, do you research them the way you would research an investment?

• 20:09Speaker 02

  Nowadays, absolutely. And with the Nike days, I didn't. It was just something that was iconic. It was Jordan. It was just, it was just something you wanted to be with. And they were really elite. And so I think a lot of athletes at the time felt that way. But now, to answer your question, yes. Before I work with anyone, I'm doing so much research. My whole team is doing research about the brand, how it aligns with me, and is it authentic? Do I use it? Like, I always like to do things that are authentic to me. Because in other words, I just feel like it's just not going to be real. And I don't like that.

• 20:46Bob Safian?

  You've also invested in professional sports, women's professional sports, particularly helping to launch LA's Angel City and the NWSL. You're now doing the same for the WNBA's Toronto Tempo. You helped redefine women's tennis as a business. Does it surprise you that it's taking so long to get to parity in some of these other sports?

• 21:11Speaker 02

  Well, you know, I was on a panel the other day and we talked about how it usually is like a 30 years. Women's basketball, we're at that, we're literally at that 30-year mark from when the WNBA started. And you're really, now we're seeing the fruitage of that. And I thought that was a really interesting point because I never thought of it like that. But then I started thinking about tennis and how we had Billie Jean King, and then 30 years later, it became tennis. And so I was like, oh, you know, that's interesting. And so is there science and is there numbers to back that? I don't know. I'm just telling you, I was on a panel and that's what was said. And I found it interesting.

• 21:43Bob Safian?

  I can imagine that some of these teams, I mean, you were so instrumental in kind of pushing that opportunity open in tennis, you know? To what extent they're coming to you for advice about how to, how to make that, that leap now?

• 21:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, although you said it, I didn't. They should. I feel like there's a lot of things that I can, advice. Is it right? Who knows? But usually what I say happens.

• 22:16Bob Safian?

  What would you tell them?

• 22:18Speaker 02

  I'm not going to get into that.

• 22:22Speaker 02

  Because I would like for them to come to me for advice, or I can go to them, give them some advice.

• 22:26Bob Safian?

  Fair enough, fair enough. So you've got your investing work, SV, and your brand deals, and you've got your husband, and you've got your, your daughters. And amid all that, you're returning to professional tennis.

• 22:43Speaker 02

  Very, very sporadically. Maybe, maybe I'm here, maybe I'm there. Who knows? Very sporadically.

• 22:49Bob Safian?

  How do you decide how to spend your time?

• 22:57Speaker 02

  I'm a very organized person. I'm an A-type personality. My, most of my time is with Starfire, Serena Ventures. That's where I spend 90% of my time. Well, outside of my kids, like when I'm not with my children as a mom, I would say most of my time is spent with ventures. And that's just-

• 23:14Bob Safian?

  Are you really the school mom for Olympia School?

• 23:16Speaker 02

  I was when she was in second grade. And I can't believe that was already almost a year and a half ago. I loved being the school mom. That was great. I loved it.

• 23:28Bob Safian?

  They grow so fast.

• 23:28Speaker 02

  I still do try to volunteer. In fact, this year, I want to volunteer for the dance because I do have a dance background, believe it or not. And I would love to offer some help.

• 23:40Bob Safian?

  I think I may have seen some videos of you dancing.

• 23:44Speaker 02

  Just because I love that part of the world. But yeah, so, but now with my partner at SV, I have a lot more time to do other things, like be more with my kids and to go back sporadically, every blue moon, you never know, in tennis, which has been really fun. And so it's good to have those opportunities again because she's amazing. She's, she's like, she's, she's the Serena Williams of VC. So I love that she's on our team. Beth Ferrer, so.

• 24:14Bob Safian?

  As a type A sort of organized person, do you have a, do you have a structure you use? Like-

• 24:19Speaker 02

  I do. You know, I have a lot, I realize now I have a lot of, what's the word I'm looking for? Boundaries, time boundaries. And even in training, like when I went back for Wimbledon, I was like, listen, I'm willing to put this in, hour here, two hours there, and that's that. And what happens, happens. This is what I'm willing to do. I'm not going back out there to win Grand Slams. I have a full-time job. But this is what I'm willing to do. And this is how I'm willing to show up. And it, it would have worked if my knee didn't swell. But I had fun. And yeah, it was putting boundaries because I'm a mom now. And I think more than anything, my kids need me.

• 25:03Bob Safian?

  Well, and that, that discipline though, is, I mean, I imagine it's another-

• 25:07Speaker 02

  I'm scheduled out. Like, I'm like very, every, I'm scheduled out to the hour.

• 25:11Bob Safian?

  Yeah. I mean, I was thinking of the, the Wreck-It's folks who you're, who you're mentoring, sort of teaching them to be disciplined too. I mean, discipline has always been part of your, your life.

• 25:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, discipline and boundaries, I think. Like, listen, like I have boundaries. This is the time I need to put into my VC. This is the time I need to put in my kids. And those take a lot more than other things. So you're setting those priorities.

• 25:36Bob Safian?

  I talked on the podcast recently with Maria Sharapova. And she talked about how the competitiveness of business and sort of being in the boardroom, it kind of taps some of the fire of playing. But then she also said that nothing matches the adrenaline of, of being on the court. And, and I guess I wondered whether like, is that part of the reason why you're, you want to compete again at, you know, with everything else going on in your life? Or is it, is it, is it for you? Is it for your daughters? Like, what's the-

• 26:10Speaker 02

  I would say it's more for my kids, more than anything.

• 26:13Bob Safian?

  To show them that you can?

• 26:15Speaker 02

  Mostly even for Olympia because she's eight and the other one's only two. Adira's only two. But it's nice for them both get, but Adira's like, she's incredibly wickedly smart. So she even says, I'm going to play tennis like mama, even before I played at Wimbledon. So she gets it. But it's nice for them to have that opportunity. And I can still play. I retired because I wanted to have children, many children. Then I had Adira and I was like, um, so we had a lot of fun. But it was nice-

• 26:50Bob Safian?

  But maybe two is many?

• 26:51Speaker 02

  Two is many, right? And so it was really, it was just, I still had a lot in my me, as you could see. And it was just more of a different decision. So, yeah.

• 27:02Bob Safian?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, for, for the listeners to this show, the, the business people, the entrepreneurs, the investors, do you have any advice for them on how to think about their journey, their, their goals, and sort of what it takes to succeed over, over time? You know, what's worthwhile, what you, what you need to do to stay grounded?

• 27:24Speaker 02

  I think the main thing that it takes to succeed over time is just the fact that you can't underestimate the power of hard work. A lot of people think, oh, this company, boom, they're now billions and billions of dollars. And it happened overnight. And that may have been the case in very few stories, but there's so many other stories where it didn't happen overnight. And people work, you have to work hard and you have to put in the time every single day. It's very redundant. And, you know, you just have to show up every day, whether it's tough, tough days, easy days, you still have to show up. And you can't underestimate the power of hard work.

• 28:05Bob Safian?

  Well, I want to say that I appreciate you showing up for this after what I know has been a very busy day. And thanks for doing it.

• 28:11Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 28:14Bob Safian?

  It is a little surreal to spend time with Serena. She's very human. And at the same time, she's, you know, Serena. Her ambition is high in business, as in tennis, but she's also earned perspective on both fronts. She's using her status to make a positive impact on the world through women's health, women's sports, through mentorship. And her commitment to her family is real. I saw her check in on her kids before and after our taping. What strikes me most is the balancing act she's engaged in and how hard it is to create time to just be herself. She mentioned wanting to volunteer for her daughter's school dance. I hope she can. All of us need to make space for the things that feed our soul and our

• 28:58Bob Safian?

  heart, whether that's dance, or tennis, or something else. It gives us the strength to carry through the tougher moments and keep up that hard work. I'm Bob Safian. Thanks for listening.

• 29:20Speaker 00

  Before we get to the rest of our conversation today, I want to spend a moment sharing with you about Masters of Scale Summit, which returns to San Francisco this October 20th to 22nd. So many of us feel overwhelmed right now. It feels like so much of the world is careening and we don't have power. We don't have agency. That's the thing about the Masters of Scale Summit. It's really designed to remind us that we do have agency, agency to lead, agency to design, to build the relationships and the partnerships that empower us and to make the change that we want to see. We program a stage, we curate an audience, we set a schedule that builds in time for these relationships to be made and to grow.

• 30:03Speaker 00

  So that by the time you leave summit, you are fired out of a cannon, ready to run through walls to do better in the world with the agency that you actually have. I hope to see you there. Visit mastersofscale.com/summit.

• 30:23Speaker 00

  Every business hits the same wall the moment your business outgrows the systems that got you here. Spreadsheets everywhere, five different logins, data scattered across entities that don't even talk to each other. If your finance team spends more time finding data than using it, that's when you need the Intuit ERP. Intuit Enterprise Suite is the AI-driven ERP solution that's powerful, painless, and proven, built for businesses scaling fast without the complexity that usually comes with it. From the makers of QuickBooks, learn more at intuit.com/erp.

• 31:03Bob Safian?

  Hey listeners, Bob here. If you listen to Rapid Response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show because every Friday we release a second Rapid Response exclusively in the Rapid Response feed. The guests and topics are just as compelling and timely, from Ford CEO to NASA's administrator to the lessons from the devil wears Prada. It takes about 10 seconds to find. Just search Rapid Response wherever you listen to podcasts and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode. I hope to see you there.

• 31:41Bob Safian?

  Rapid Response is a Wait What original. I'm Bob Safian, our executive producer is Eve Trow. Our senior producer is Alex Morris and our associate producer is Masha Machutonina. Mixing and mastering by Aaron Bastinelli and Brian Pugh. Our theme music is by Ryan Holiday. Our head of podcasts is Lital Malad. For more, visit rapidresponseshow.com.

• 32:14Speaker 04

  Humans will never be more intelligent than AI.

• 32:17Speaker 05

  There's going to be two types of companies. Those who are great at AI and those that went out of business because they weren't.

• 32:22Speaker 06

  How do we build a future that is human centered? I'm Rana Elkhayubi and on my podcast, Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone. Every week I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future and we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives.

• 32:52Speaker 06

  Find Pioneers of AI wherever you tune in.