Episode 338

In East Cleveland, Ohio, Diane Madison - a mother and grandmother - was also a woman remembered fondly by her neighbors. In 2019, she woke to a knife at her throat, and the assailant was her very own grandson, Jalen Plummer. Years earlier, another tragedy had unfolded just steps from her home involving a man who killed three women, ranging in age from 18 to 38. Get instant access to all episodes, including premium unreleased episodes, commercial-free at swordandscale.com

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Mike Boudet?

  Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota Fortability. And it all starts with a great deal on a truck from your local Toyota dealer. Make a smart buy on the off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and long-lasting trucks. Built with the strength for the tough jobs, the tech to power your next big adventures, and the rugged style for everything in between. Or discover Toyota's off-road lineup, including the iconic 4Runner and Land Cruiser, designed to go beyond the everyday. And with Toyota's proven reputation for quality and reliability, plus available hybrid power on many models,

• 0:44Mike Boudet?

  you can get more for every mile and drive for less along the way. And long after you leave the lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with great resale value. So you can trade in for more when you're ready for your next Toyota. From a great deal today to a great value tomorrow, a Toyota is right for you. Shop toyota.com for deals and details, or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let's go places.

• 1:16Speaker 01

  Girl, guess what?

• 1:18Speaker 02

  Hey, what's up?

• 1:19Speaker 01

  I'm looking into prep for HIV prevention.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  Prep? I didn't think that was for women.

• 1:24Speaker 01

  Same. Then I asked my doctor, and she said anyone who is sexually active should know about PrEP.

• 1:30Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:31Speaker 01

  And there are long-acting injectable options.

• 1:34Speaker 02

  Long-acting? I like the sound of that.

• 1:36Speaker 01

  Sounds like it's time to talk to your health care provider. You can also check out preppistforwomen.com for more information. Sponsored by Gilead.

• 1:44Speaker 03

  Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

• 1:59Speaker 04

  A man's manhood should never be compromised. When it comes to a female who's never been a man.

• 2:08Mike Boudet?

  Come take a load off, put your feet up, and listen to some murder. What a stupid thing to say. This is season 13, episode 338 of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real.

• 2:38Mike Boudet?

  If you're a fan of true crime, I invite you to check out our brand-new YouTube channel, where you can subscribe the opposite way you can on our website. See, on our website, you can subscribe for $10 for audio and then add video for another $10 on top of that. On YouTube, you can start with video and add audio. So, you know, take your pick. This is just gonna complicate things, isn't it?

• 3:05Mike Boudet?

  Oh, well. Fuck my life.

• 3:14Mike Boudet?

  Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota Fortability. And it all starts with a great deal on a truck from your local Toyota dealer. Make a smart buy on the off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and long-lasting trucks. Built with the strength for the tough jobs, the tech to power your next big adventures, and the rugged style for everything in between. Or discover Toyota's off-road lineup, including the iconic Forerunner and Land Cruiser, designed to go beyond the everyday. And with Toyota's proven reputation for quality and reliability, plus available hybrid power on many models,

• 3:59Mike Boudet?

  you can get more for every mile and drive for less along the way. And long after you leave the lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with great resale value. So you can trade in for more when you're ready for your next Toyota. From a great deal today to a great value tomorrow, a Toyota is right for you. Shoptoyota.com for deals and details, or stop by your local Toyota dealer today.

• 4:26Mike Boudet?

  Toyota. Let's go places.

• 4:45Mike Boudet?

  It's just after midnight in 2019 during the summer solstice, the longest day of the year. This isn't some mumbo jumbo new age crap. It's when the sun is furthest from the equator. And it's a time when some say the veil between this dimension and the others is the thinnest. Okay, so maybe there is a little quote unquote "new age wisdom." The most important point, though, is that it's Ohio, the state that's becoming quite popular around here for some reason. So it's June 21st in East Cleveland. Believe it or not, there are posh areas in Cleveland

• 5:30Mike Boudet?

  so that some of you savages can pretend to be people. This isn't one of them. It's not a picturesque skyline by the lake or the downtown area lit up with nightlife. It's Collinwood, a working-class neighborhood that feels like it's part of a bygone era, part of the Rust Belt. The houses are small and modest, but nice enough. And the lawns are mowed. There's just enough space in the backyard for a barbecue. Ah, Americana. A small, white Cape Cod-style home faces a narrow street called Chickasaw Avenue. It's a mild but humid evening.

• 6:16Mike Boudet?

  No wind is blowing, and it's dark. Windows stay open in most homes, and the people inside are asleep, the fans humming in the background. But on this street, as June 21st turns to the 22nd, something bad is happening.

• 6:36Speaker 05

  911 dispatchers, who do you need? Police Fire EMS.

• 6:42Speaker 06

  Chicken Saw Ave.

• 6:44Speaker 05

  I'm sorry?

• 6:46Speaker 06

  I said we just got stabbed.

• 6:49Speaker 05

  Who just got stabbed?

• 6:51Mike Boudet?

  The call almost sounded like a hoax. The child calling in was so calm and said she lived on Chicken Saw Avenue. But this was no joke.

• 7:03Speaker 05

  What's your address where you are?

• 7:05Speaker 06

  Chicken Saw Ave, we just stabbed her.

• 7:07Speaker 05

  What's the address, the complete address?

• 7:11Speaker 06

  We don't know.

• 7:13Speaker 05

  You're on what street?

• 7:15Speaker 06

  Chicken Saw Ave, we're trying to put her out, about to pass out.

• 7:19Speaker 05

  Are you in Euclid?

• 7:21Speaker 06

  No, Cleveland, Ohio.

• 7:23Mike Boudet?

  You may not have caught it, but the little girl said she was about to pass out. She was trying her hardest to stay alert and get the street names right. In this part of Cleveland, the streets seem to have Native American names.

• 7:38Speaker 05

  And you're on Chickasaw?

• 7:40Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 7:40Speaker 05

  Do you know another street nearby?

• 7:43Speaker 06

  Um, no. I'm living in sight, Swan, Turkey Ave.

• 7:50Speaker 05

  You're on Turkey?

• 7:52Speaker 06

  What? Turkey.

• 7:54Mike Boudet?

  What she was trying to say was Cherokee. Note to parents, make sure that your kids know where they live and how to pronounce the street names. That's a small safety tip that rivals all of the canned goods and toilet paper you hoard in your Cape Cod summer home. Yeah, I know my audience.

• 8:12Speaker 05

  Okay, who got stabbed, honey?

• 8:15Speaker 06

  Me and my cousin.

• 8:16Speaker 05

  By who?

• 8:18Speaker 06

  Our cousin.

• 8:21Speaker 05

  Okay, I'm gonna get you over to EMS, okay?

• 8:25Speaker 06

  Yes, please.

• 8:26Speaker 05

  Don't hang up. How old are you?

• 8:28Speaker 06

  Ten.

• 8:29Speaker 05

  Okay, don't hang up, okay?

• 8:31Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 8:38Mike Boudet?

  The dispatch operator told the EMS responder she had a ten-year-old who had a knife wound. It was hard to tell if his response was disbelief or mere frustration. I mean, this is Cleveland. Sadly, it's probably not the first time a kid called in about being stabbed. This place truly is a shithole.

• 9:02Speaker 05

  Are you still there, honey?

• 9:04Speaker 06

  Yes, I'm at the house.

• 9:06Speaker 05

  Okay. Okay. She doesn't know where she's at. She says she's on a street called Chicka.

• 9:12Speaker 05

  What's up? Free, bruh. The corner what? She- it's not a corner. She just says she's on a street called Chicka. Chicka's all?

• 9:28Speaker 05

  She said her and her cousin got stabbed. Okay. Didn't her cousin hurt or folded in her? How old is your cousin, honey?

• 9:39Mike Boudet?

  By this time, the polite little girl who was stabbed and trying not to pass out was getting frustrated. You can hear her in the background desperately pleading for help. She was probably wondering when the questions would stop and an ambulance would arrive. The victims were two ten-year-old cousins who managed to escape outside. They were making their way to a neighbor's house, but all the time struggling just to stay alive. Thank God, some kind people in the next street over were still up and looking out their window when they heard crying.

• 10:16Speaker 05

  Cleveland 911, that's your dispatch.

• 10:18Speaker 06

  I got a little girl outside my house. She's- she's her brother's daughter.

• 10:23Speaker 05

  What's her- what's her address?

• 10:25Speaker 06

  My address is 1961. She's- she's bleeding really bad. She- she's coming in my house, so please hurry.

• 10:35Speaker 06

  Shut the door. Tell you about the door.

• 10:40Mike Boudet?

  Imagine that. You're minding your own business and suddenly you hear little kids crying outside. You're like, "What's that?" You get up to see two blood-soaked girls staggering towards your house. These days, would you even let them in? I mean, be honest. That's some "The Shining" bullshit right there. Some of you would probably slam the door shut, no doubt.

• 11:04Speaker 06

  She knocked on my door and said that she's stabbed. They're bleeding to death. All their clothes are full of blood.

• 11:09Speaker 05

  Who's bleeding to death?

• 11:10Speaker 06

  The two little girls.

• 11:12Speaker 05

  Okay, are you-

• 11:13Speaker 06

  And the little girl can barely talk. Yes.

• 11:15Speaker 05

  Okay, so I'm gonna ask you two more questions so that I can tell you what to do. These questions are gonna help me help them, okay? How old are they?

• 11:20Speaker 06

  Okay. They look like they're about maybe, uh, twelve, eleven, twelve years old.

• 11:25Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 11:25Speaker 06

  Thirteen at the- at the most.

• 11:26Speaker 05

  And are they awake?

• 11:28Speaker 06

  Yeah, they're awake but they're covered in blood.

• 11:30Speaker 05

  Okay, and now, listen carefully, I wanna tell you how to stop the bleeding, listen carefully to make sure we do it correct, okay?

• 11:36Mike Boudet?

  Sounds like a plan, right? But what do you do if you can't tell where the blood's coming from?

• 11:42Speaker 05

  So I need you to get a-

• 11:43Speaker 06

  But they got stabbed, they're all over.

• 11:46Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 11:47Speaker 06

  They're all over.

• 11:49Speaker 05

  Okay, is the burglar still nearby, the one that stabbed him?

• 11:53Speaker 06

  No, no, no.

• 11:55Speaker 05

  Okay, and is there any serious bleeding?

• 11:58Speaker 06

  Yes, there's serious bleeding.

• 12:00Speaker 05

  Okay, are they completely alert, are they going out of it, unconscious?

• 12:03Speaker 06

  Yes, they're, they're, they're pieces of blood, yes.

• 12:05Speaker 05

  Okay, I'm giving this information to the dispatch, stay online, don't hang up. Okay, and you said there is more than one wound, correct?

• 12:12Speaker 06

  Yes, they're stabbed all over, they got blood and they're landing in my house, in my foyer, and they're bleeding.

• 12:18Speaker 05

  Okay, help is on the way?

• 12:20Mike Boudet?

  It always seems to take forever for an ambulance to arrive, and the questions from 911 operators are never-ending. The truth is that the response time varies, obviously depending on where you live, but in urban areas, the average time is only about five to eight minutes. But those few minutes can feel like forever.

• 12:44Speaker 06

  Alright, shut the door. Is she okay? Baby, both of you okay? They're landing before talking, how long is it gonna take them to get here?

• 12:53Speaker 05

  They're coming right now, the fire department and the paramedics.

• 12:58Speaker 06

  And they're on their way.

• 12:59Speaker 05

  Yes, they're on the way.

• 13:01Mike Boudet?

  The excitement was almost too much for this lady. She started having her own issues.

• 13:06Speaker 06

  I got asthma and my breathing is getting heavy.

• 13:09Speaker 05

  Okay, do you have a, um, inhaler that you can take?

• 13:12Speaker 06

  Yes, I'm about to need it.

• 13:14Speaker 05

  Okay, let's go get your inhaler.

• 13:16Mike Boudet?

  Despite her own problems, this woman wasn't going to let two little girls slip into unconsciousness. I mean, if I needed somebody to bring me back, I'd want this lady. She goes hard.

• 13:28Speaker 06

  Hey, wake up, baby! Hey! Wake up, baby!

• 13:33Mike Boudet?

  As the woman in the house is on the phone with 911, her boyfriend comes back. He sees the kids bleeding and crying.

• 13:41Speaker 06

  What's wrong, babe? Who stabbed you? I've been called. Come on. Hello?

• 13:49Speaker 06

  Hello?

• 13:50Speaker 05

  Give him the phone, honey.

• 13:53Speaker 06

  Say what?

• 13:55Speaker 07

  Hello.

• 13:56Speaker 05

  Can you tell AM and FM where you guys are?

• 13:59Speaker 07

  We are right here on Cherokee, 19612 Cherokee. All these kids have been stabbed up. Okay, give me, give me that address again. 19612 Cherokee.

• 14:11Speaker 07

  Who am I speaking to? This is EMS and police. Hurry up, please. These, these girls have been stabbed bad.

• 14:20Speaker 07

  Come back here, baby.

• 14:26Speaker 07

  Ain't nobody gonna mess with y'all. Oh my goodness, come on. Oh my goodness, come on, baby, come on.

• 14:35Mike Boudet?

  The little girls confirm that it was a cousin who stabbed them. And she's afraid he'll find them. Not when this guy's around. I mean, would you fuck with him? I wouldn't. Weakly, she tells him she can't get up.

• 14:50Speaker 07

  Open that door. This girl have been stabbed up bad. Okay, that's the address where they're gonna be, the 19612? Yes, yes, 19612 Cherokee, hurry up.

• 15:04Speaker 07

  Oh my fucking goodness. Okay, are you guys responding, Katie?

• 15:08Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:08Speaker 07

  Say what? Say, y'all sit right there. Oh my fucking goodness, this girl has been stabbed up real bad.

• 15:16Speaker 05

  Does she know where the person went who stabbed her?

• 15:19Speaker 07

  Say what?

• 15:20Speaker 05

  Does she know where the person stabbed her?

• 15:23Speaker 07

  Where the person go that stabbed? They said they looking for him. Shut up. Let me do this.

• 15:30Speaker 07

  Please, help. She said the person is looking for him.

• 15:37Speaker 07

  She said, who, who is the person that stabbed y'all?

• 15:39Mike Boudet?

  They said they looking for them. Oh, boy. These gentlemen seem ready to carry out their own investigation. But police wanted a name.

• 15:52Mike Boudet?

  The little girls were scared and going in and out of awareness. It was hard to get the needed information and confusion was getting in the way.

• 16:01Speaker 07

  They don't know, do y'all know who's sad, y'all like that? Sir. Yeah. Are both of them sad? Yeah. Well, you can't put bodies for these kids. Sir, we got people on the way, I'm trying to get information from you, so if the time you are... Yeah, they're sad, these kids are sad, they're sad, they two little girls. Oh, my fucking goodness, ah, man, I find this dude. Who is this guy?

• 16:28Speaker 06

  I got EM, that's already talking to them, they don't need to be transpired.

• 16:32Speaker 07

  Okay, I got... Who is this guy that's sad, y'all? Cap, I got 12-year-old sad. Oh, I'm sure. Who's sad, y'all? Sir, who? Jalen Plummer.

• 16:47Mike Boudet?

  It was 18-year-old Jalen Plummer, their cousin, who was supposed to be staying with an aunt in a different part of the neighborhood, but decided to go on a killing spree at his grandma's house instead. And the grandma was still back at the house.

• 17:04Speaker 07

  Now, y'all, please, just hurry up, send somebody for these kids. He killed your grandma.

• 17:12Speaker 06

  My daughter.

• 17:13Speaker 07

  Oh, my. Oh, my God, please, hurry up, send somebody for these kids.

• 17:22Mike Boudet?

  So much was going on. As the couple in the house learned more information, the panic escalated. Some people are good in crisis and some aren't.

• 17:34Speaker 06

  Do they know where they live at?

• 17:36Speaker 07

  Don't tell me what to do, you go and do what you should do. What you say?

• 17:41Speaker 06

  Do they know where they live at?

• 17:44Speaker 07

  Do I know where they live at?

• 17:45Speaker 05

  Do they? Can they tell us their address?

• 17:48Mike Boudet?

  They called from Chickasaw Avenue, where their grandmother, Diane Madison, lived. The two cousins escaped, but left their grandmother behind. Then, there was the cousin Jalen, who caused the bloodbath. No one knew his whereabouts yet, but he'd better hope he didn't cross paths with his neighbor.

• 18:10Speaker 07

  Baby, get your things calm now. Man, I find this motherfucker. Will you quit talking to me, Pam? Stop talking to me, please. I'm not saying the shit. I would this motherfucking would bring his ass over here. Oh, my fucking goodness.

• 18:26Speaker 05

  Okay, we should have police pulling up, sir. Do you see them outside?

• 18:30Speaker 07

  Oh, my fucking goodness. Oh, my fucking goodness. Yeah, they pulling up right now.

• 18:37Mike Boudet?

  In the immortal words of this Ohioan, "Oh, my fucking goodness." This was Cleveland, but even our seasoned veteran here hadn't seen anything like this before. You could tell this was some fucked up shit that would stick with them. After talking with the two little girls and the couple taking care of them, officers realized they needed to go to the crime scene as soon as possible while the girls were on their way to the hospital. What they didn't know yet was that there was still another child in that house on Chickasaw. Justin Madison, a 12-year-old boy with autism.

• 19:18Mike Boudet?

  This was Jalen's brother, and Jalen was still in that house, too. So, this is the house? Yeah. Okay. So, we... You guys have a crime scene log or anything going on? Yeah, Nate's got that going. Okay, okay. Just tell you guys what happened. I also got the address who came over here. His little brother has, like, a mental dis-

• 19:36Speaker 04

  He came up to that window.

• 19:38Mike Boudet?

  This bedroom right here with those windows?

• 19:40Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 19:41Mike Boudet?

  She's laying in the south east corner of the room, behind the door, face down. Justin was terrified and didn't completely understand what was going on. His sister had fled the scene with her cousin, well, more like escaped. Justin was trapped in an upstairs bedroom and didn't even know he was injured. The police were about to wade into a blood-soaked house, but first needed to convince her grandson, Justin, to unlock the door and come outside.

• 20:17Speaker 04

  Come here. Open the window.

• 20:21Speaker 04

  Hey, what's your name, my man?

• 20:23Speaker 04

  What's that?

• 20:34Speaker 04

  Where's your brother?

• 20:37Speaker 04

  Okay, what?

• 20:42Speaker 04

  Hey, I'm-

• 20:45Speaker 04

  Hey, I'm gonna cover the back.

• 20:47Mike Boudet?

  Justin was risking his life letting the officers in because the killer was still there. In the bathroom, the water was running. Jalen Plummer was fully clothed, standing under the shower. The blood from his own knife wounds swirled into the drain.

• 21:08Speaker 04

  Stay right here, my man. You're okay, you're okay.

• 21:11Speaker 06

  Where are you?

• 21:12Speaker 04

  What's that?

• 21:13Speaker 06

  You get my clothes for me, I can't.

• 21:16Speaker 04

  Are you okay, though?

• 21:17Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 21:20Speaker 06

  Wait, my brother, my brother's in there. My brother did this.

• 21:26Speaker 04

  You're fine, you're fine.

• 21:27Speaker 06

  It is all right.

• 21:27Speaker 04

  How old are you, my man?

• 21:30Speaker 06

  Twelve years old.

• 21:31Speaker 04

  Twelve years old?

• 21:32Speaker 06

  Yes. I think my mom is, my mom would not, my mom would not ask that how.

• 21:37Speaker 04

  Where's your mom at? She at work?

• 21:39Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 21:40Mike Boudet?

  This was a madhouse. When asked for his mother's name, he was able to give it to the officer, but he couldn't spell it, saying that she never told him how.

• 21:52Speaker 04

  Okay, we'll call her, okay? You're okay, though. You're not hurt, right? You're not bleeding at all? Oh, you?

• 21:59Speaker 04

  You got stabbed, huh?

• 22:00Speaker 06

  Wait, I got stabbed?

• 22:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, you got, you got some blood.

• 22:05Speaker 04

  Lucky? What? Yeah? When I saw the knife in there. You did? Where do you think the knife's at? I cleaned it up. Did you clean it up? Yeah. Okay. It's in the sink. It's in the sink. It's in the sink right now. It's in the sink? Hey, he's saying the knife's in the sink. This guy, this... This is the victim. Yeah, he's got a little laceration of the back right now.

• 22:28Mike Boudet?

  The discovery of the murder weapon was good news and bad news. Good news that this unlikely and lucky victim found it, but possibly bad news that he cleaned it up.

• 22:40Speaker 04

  What's gonna happen to me now? You're gonna get checked out by EMS, cuz you're... You got stabbed. Now I'm gonna try getting a hold of your mom for you, okay?

• 22:48Mike Boudet?

  Justin naturally had a lot of questions about himself, his grandma Diane, and his brother, who had been led away in handcuffs.

• 22:58Speaker 04

  Uh, what happened to my brother now? We got him. He's not gonna hurt anyone. My girl gonna be okay? Yeah, they're working on her right now. They're helping her. Okay, that's all. Uh, Dad, you saw a little dog? A little dog? I did not. I did not go in the house. I saw you outside. I came and grabbed you.

• 23:17Mike Boudet?

  What Justin didn't know was that his grandmother died almost immediately after being stabbed by his brother. In her bedroom, they found Diane Madison dead of multiple stab wounds, including one that completely severed her carotid artery. And the little dog he was referring to was sitting on the bed, in the same spot where he'd been sleeping peacefully next to his owner. Now, with a look of bewilderment. The dog wasn't alone. Almost everyone who knew Jalen Plummer was bewildered. No one could yet explain why a college-bound teenager, quiet, smart, and planning to study

• 23:59Mike Boudet?

  pharmacology, had suddenly turned into a violent killer. But there were cracks long before that night. This wasn't just one terrible night. It was the unveiling of a legacy that had been building long before Jalen had ever picked up a knife.

• 24:37Mike Boudet?

  Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota Fortability. And it all starts with a great deal on a truck from your local Toyota dealer. Make a smart buy on the off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and long-lasting trucks. Built with the strength for the tough jobs, the tech to power your next big adventures, and the rugged style for everything in between. Or discover Toyota's off-road lineup, including the iconic Forerunner and Land Cruiser, designed to go beyond the everyday. And with Toyota's proven reputation for quality and reliability, plus available hybrid power

• 25:21Mike Boudet?

  on many models, you can get more for every mile and drive for less along the way. And long after you leave the lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with great resale value. So you can trade in for more when you're ready for your next Toyota. From a great deal today to a great value tomorrow, a Toyota is right for you. Shop toyota.com for deals and details, or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let's go places. Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 26:06Speaker 01

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 26:17Mike Boudet?

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 26:29Mike Boudet?

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat.

• 26:34Speaker 06

  It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At The Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At The Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

• 26:48Mike Boudet?

  Ever been on a trip where you felt like an outsider because you couldn't speak the language? That's exactly where Babbel steps in. It's not about mastering textbook grammar or topping leaderboards. It's about real conversations in real places. Imagine speaking a new language confidently in just a few weeks with just 10 minutes a day on Babbel. Designed by over 200 language experts, Babbel teaches you the phrases that locals actually use, not outdated textbook jargon. Plus, it fits into your life effortlessly, whether during a coffee break or right before bed. And here's something for all of you. As listeners of our podcast, you can get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription. Just visit babbel.com/pod. Start your journey to a new language today.

• 27:50Mike Boudet?

  On June 22nd, 2019, in East Cleveland's South Collin Wood neighborhood, police responded to a bloody scene on Chickasaw Avenue. Two 10-year-old girls escaped their home, reporting they'd been stabbed in their sleep. When officers got to the house, they found a third victim, a 12-year-old autistic boy who confirmed that his brother was the killer. 18-year-old Jalen Plummer was in the shower, rinsing off blood after stabbing the entire household. In a bedroom, his grandmother Diane Madison lay dead from multiple stab wounds, and her little dog also laid nearby.

• 28:33Mike Boudet?

  Jalen offered only a chilling explanation. "The mental health care system failed me, so I tried to kill my family." Signs of mental illness seemed obvious when Jalen was taken to the hospital and questioned. Nurses bandaged the deep cuts on his hands, but it was as if his voice was bound just as tightly. His muffled words barely escaped. He spoke in vague detached terms referring to his siblings as child number one and child number two. He claimed he didn't know the names of his mother and grandmother, and said he just called them mommy or grandma.

• 29:15Mike Boudet?

  His mother, Tania Plummer, would later tell detectives that Jalen had no official diagnosis, but his behavior had drastically changed between the ages of 12 and 15. He'd been drinking, smoking, shutting down, and fixating on dark things. She had just decided to get him into therapy. But here's what Jalen's mother didn't want to say. She remembered that his behavior had started to change around the time of another arrest. Police already knew the name that would leave her lips. This was a man from the same city, a serial killer that had haunted Cleveland and was

• 29:57Mike Boudet?

  arrested and convicted during Jalen's crucial adolescent years. It seemed possible this disturbed Jalen so much that he became fascinated with killing and ultimately exploded in a murderous fit that night, leaving his grandmother dead. Diane was a loving, kind person, and I think sometimes that gets lost. Almost all of us who worked with her remained friends with her afterward. That's the kind of person she was. She was the kind of person others felt comfortable with because they knew she'd been through it. They knew she was the first to sympathize. She was always open to hearing about everybody's hard times because God knows she'd had enough of her own.

• 30:42Mike Boudet?

  And I just want them to remember her smile and...

• 30:45Speaker 03

  Remember how much laughter and joy she brought to people's lives. She was someone who was compassionate, who cared about her family, who cared about her grandkids, who cared about her kids even when they couldn't reciprocate maybe.

• 30:58Mike Boudet?

  Diane Madison wasn't just a grandmother, she was a mother of one of the most notorious killers in Cleveland's history. Her son, Michael Madison, grew up in that same house on Chickasaw Avenue. As an adult, he returned to raise a family there with his girlfriend, Tania Plummer. They had two children, including a disabled son. Eventually, Michael left them behind, not before Jalen witnessed it all though. The growing suspicion, the arrest, the conviction of a killer, someone who had once called that house home.

• 31:39Speaker 05

  Conversation recorded on July 19th, 2013 at 8:54.

• 31:49Speaker 04

  Please, please, just back if I can help you. Hey, how you doing? Okay. Hi, this is, uh, just need to see, um, y'all can send somebody over here, we can't get this one garage open, because there's a lot of people upstairs. Is that her brother? Uh, we can't get a garage door open, but it's a smell, I know when a dead animal smells, and I know a garbage smell, but a fly coming out of the wall from one side of the garage, I mean, that smell's so freaking strong, you could throw up, I mean, we just wanna make sure ain't no body on the other side or something, I mean, it's so bad enough, man, you would throw up, it's hard to even take the smell, so. What's the address? 1395 Haynes. What's her name?

• 32:33Speaker 04

  My name's Shay, that's it, Shay Washington. What's your last name, Shay? Charles.

• 32:39Speaker 04

  What's your phone number? Uh, two one six, eight seven zero, eighty nine, fifty six. Okay, are you good? Yeah, we out here, I'm out here now, so we was waiting, nobody ain't come up yet, we been calling, but it's so crazy. Okay, I'm gonna send someone out to you. Alright.

• 32:57Mike Boudet?

  That smell in the garage, if you've never had the pleasure, it's a mixture of rotting fish, dead animal, skunk, and raw sewage. How's that lunch treating you? You're welcome. This call came in six years before Diane's murder, and it wasn't just the first sign of something horrific, it was the past catching up. It was a call to police from a cable company worker in this building that eventually led to the arrest of Michael Madison on murder charges. He lived there in an apartment, and one employee saw flies swarming in a nearby garage. So I went in there, and when I smelled the smell, I was like, oh my god, we need to call the police.

• 33:40Mike Boudet?

  East Cleveland Police found the decomposing body of a female victim on Friday. They ID'd Madison as a suspect, arrested him at his mother's home, and began questioning. The garage wasn't behind Diane's house. It was on Hayden Avenue, near a small upstairs apartment Michael had been renting just a few miles away. Because by 2013, he wasn't living under his mother's roof anymore. And he wasn't the same cute, cuddly little boy she'd raised. He had turned cold. Michael Madison, Diane's son, was no stranger to trouble. He was quiet and withdrawn. He's always been that way. He'd been drifting for

• 34:24Mike Boudet?

  years through dead-end jobs, short tempers, and the kind of isolation that makes neighbors nervous. He had anger issues sometime. I would see him upset, yelling. And I just told him to calm down and he was okay. You know, he spoke to everybody. When the garage door finally opened and the truth finally came spilling out, literally, it wasn't just the neighborhood that changed. It was the entire Madison household, especially his stepson Jalen. The man he had once called stepdad would now be called something else entirely, a killer.

• 35:06Mike Boudet?

  Michael wasn't exactly a copycat, but his crimes bore chilling similarities to those of another Cleveland serial killer he reportedly admired, Anthony Sewell, infamously known as the Cleveland Strangler. Sewell was convicted in 2011 after the remains of 11 women were found at his home. Years later, Jalen Plummer, who lived with his stepfather, Michael, in the same house, appeared to develop a disturbing interest in the same notorious figure.

• 35:40Speaker 03

  The coroner in Cleveland, Ohio, says six bodies found in the home of a convicted rapist were female. All were homicide victims. Police arrested 50-year-old Anthony Sewell Saturday.

• 35:50Speaker 06

  Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, heavenly Father. I am so glad they got him because I wasn't gonna rest, you know, until they did.

• 35:58Mike Boudet?

  Before, I had to put my fridge against the door and lock myself in before I could even go to sleep. Just two years after the Cleveland Strangler was put away, Michael Madison emerged onto the crime scene. Michael was born in East Cleveland in 1977. Former classmates barely remembered him because he had no real friends. He was, I guess, what you would call forgettable. He didn't graduate from high school, but he was far from stupid. He had a lot going on in his head, but no one ever bothered to ask what that was. And he never saw a therapist.

• 36:41Mike Boudet?

  But he needed one because he hated women, specifically black women. The women who fell into his nightmare weren't prostitutes or drugged-out street women, not that they would deserve his fate. Instead, they were women with families, full lives and plans. And for a brief, fateful moment, each of them crossed paths with Michael Madison. The first body found was 18-year-old Sherelda Terry. She had just graduated from high school with plans for a good life. That summer, she worked at an elementary school in East Cleveland, helping run youth programs and earning respect from teachers and neighbors.

• 37:24Mike Boudet?

  She was last seen alive on July 10th, 2013, leaving school after her shift, but she never made it home. They met somewhere in the previous weeks and started texting. Michael lied, saying he was 25 with no children. When they opened the garage door, thousands of flies swarmed in the putrid air. Officers moved the bags containing her remains and a trail of decomposition fluid, left a mix of brown, gray, red, and yellow flowing like a dirty river on the concrete in front of it. It was one of the most gruesome crime scenes they'd ever laid their eyes on.

• 38:07Mike Boudet?

  She died from ligature strangulation. And investigators also noted a severe vaginal laceration consistent with sexual assault while she was still alive.

• 38:20Speaker 05

  Sherelda's my angel. Well, everybody called her Sherelda. I called her heaven. Why is that? I called my kids, I called my kids according to how they act. And that's my heaven. So, to me, he took mine.

• 38:34Speaker 04

  She's a praise to answer. She's, she's a holy person. She's heavy into the church and she's, she's my reader, my bookworm.

• 38:41Mike Boudet?

  It didn't take long for Michael to be arrested and brought in for questioning, but it came after a standoff at his mother's house. DNA and circumstantial evidence were strong, but during questioning detectives hoped to get some answers as to why. Michael had the spotlight for once. He talked a lot, but not about what mattered. And he wasn't the loud bragging type. Instead, he gave metaphors quietly. Parables. Detached theories about the human condition. It was as if the man accused of stuffing women into trash bags thought he was there to give a philosophical lecture.

• 39:25Mike Boudet?

  And while detectives paused for timelines and names, Michael offered riddles and speculations.

• 39:33Speaker 04

  You know, this is my first time I really realized just how different walks of life are. Like when I was younger, we stayed on the west side. And we stayed in Cleveland, so we got schooled on the west side. You know, so the west side school ran like, you know, Puerto Ricans, whites, you know what I'm saying? Black's pretty good in the mid-street. Then we moved here and it's been pretty much just, you know, black on black for the majority of my life. I've always, I, I, you know, I told myself, told myself I would like to stay out in the country, you know, say three, four horses. You know, say a couple cows, some sheep, you know what I'm saying? Some rams, some goats. You're gonna do the ram and the goat?

• 40:14Speaker 04

  I just like to see the rams, like they did that, that, like, I think they had like the most testosterone they can handle. Really? The ram. Think I'm going at it one time. Like ram. Bangin', chillin' up. Mm-hmm. Bangin', cookin', nothing to bangin' now. Don't like the Rams, you know what I'm sayin'? Like the Rams swagger.

• 40:34Mike Boudet?

  Yeah, he really did just say, "I like the Rams swagger." The conversation shifted for a minute to the day police picked him up. It was a sweltering day when police moved to arrest him on July 19th, 2013. He happened to be at his mom's house on Chickasaw and barricaded himself inside for hours. SWAT was called, and the standoff ended only when officers used tear gas and broke the door down to force him out. They asked him what he was thinking at the time. If it sounds garbled, it's probably because of the cheeseburger he was eating.

• 41:14Speaker 04

  Not really, just running into my head that this was really happening. Pretty much it's waiting out for real. And from all the calls I've got, I know it's not a little bit for me.

• 41:27Mike Boudet?

  This guy's maybe the chillist killer they've ever interviewed. He went on to say that while police car sirens blared and lights flashed, while voices boomed over the megaphone yelling for him to come out, he was listening to his mother's wind chimes, smoking cigarette butts from the ashtray, and thinking about his childhood.

• 41:49Speaker 04

  So we could have friends and family. No, man. Obviously, if a lot of my friends and family are the ones who've done, you know, the worst in my life. Right? You know, like, think about it, man. Like, do you think if I really, like, if I really just, just all out valued my mother and her opinion and how she would feel, would you think I would've came out the door before that, you know what I'm sayin', before that door got hit like that? Can't fuck that door up. Yeah. I'm saying, like, I'm not saying that that's the reason that I didn't come out, but, like I said, man, family and friends would be the worst. And, you know, I'm not a mother with, you know...

• 42:31Speaker 04

  When I heard it got to a point where I was, you know, really pretty much didn't care to hear again, but you know, during a certain time, it was like she was there for me, you know what I'm saying? You know, the whole thing with don't for a second appearance and for forever it don't hold on to this, don't hold on to that, you know, talking about putting all of that behind me. But, nah, I really.

• 42:55Mike Boudet?

  At several points throughout the more than eight hours of interrogation, Michael alluded to a loveless childhood of neglect. According to him, his mother prioritized appearance and money over him. As much as detectives wanted to make him comfortable and hear about his past, they still had a job to do. And it wasn't to be a therapist for a killer.

• 43:19Speaker 04

  Want to start at the beginning? Four. Start at the beginning, wherever you want to start. This is, this is your opportunity. Tell me. Tell you what, what's your, what's your account account for? Yeah? Well, I got a call saying that they found the body in the garage, found the place on, um, so I'm, hey. Mm-hmm. People that called me, they said, hey, you know, they, I'm gonna be around here. I'm like. Is that where you live at?

• 43:57Mike Boudet?

  Let's answer that. Yes. That's it. That's where Michael lived. But all of a sudden, it was not really his place. His baby mama's name was on the lease and people just sort of came and went, all helping pay the bills together somehow in some sort of weird collective. You know, anybody could have been there. Anybody could have had access to that garage.

• 44:23Speaker 04

  Michael, I don't, I don't know. You had a conversation with the commander about I was the last, last.

• 44:33Speaker 04

  Hours I've been over in your spot with uh an organization called BCI. I don't know, you know what BCI is, man? You ever watch any of the CSI shows? Whenever something happens, you you leave intentionally or unintentionally, you leave stuff behind. Whether it be DNA evidence, fingerprints, blood. We're giving you the opportunity to tell your side of the story, man, okay? But please don't, don't sit here and insult me. All right, I've been spending the last seven hours processing your apartment.

• 45:07Speaker 04

  I know the evidence in your apartment. I know the evidence in your garage. I mean, please, please, please do me the courtesy of, of, listen. I understand that people make mistakes. I told you before, I'm not here to judge you. But please do me the courtesy of, of, of being honest, man. All on me though? What's that? You, like, you say, and then it's all on me. Like, all on me, my, my place, my garage, my, my just me. Because it's relative, you know? Everybody says that you live there. And they reputable, their information is reputable because... We got people that saw you in the apartment, man.

• 45:51Mike Boudet?

  He argued that he was in and out of the apartment and hadn't been in the garage for weeks. The body was put in the garage less than a week before. All the detectives wanted was for him to fess up and tell them what he did. And they weren't getting anywhere. It was time to bring God into it.

• 46:12Speaker 04

  Are you a God-er, man?

• 46:14Mike Boudet?

  Little did they know that they had just made a massive overreach. This was the perfect opportunity for the suspect to, um...

• 46:23Mike Boudet?

  Preach.

• 46:24Speaker 04

  That's all I want, that's all I got for real. That's all I ever really had as God. So then you believe in right and wrong? Right, but I also believe in the test thing here on earth. Where you had a devil and you have died. Hell is right here on earth, like you, like you. No matter if you was a reverend, a pastor, a deacon. Like you are not without sin. Like you sin, he sin. Like no one, whether it be police, pastor, no one can tell me this without sin. No one can tell me that they have never committed a sin, never broken the law, whether it be misdemeanor or felony.

• 47:07Speaker 04

  Somebody like, everybody has some type of skeleton in their closet. And whether it be pastor or chief of police, like, you know, throw a name on it. Skeletons can be as big as the name, like chief of police. His skeletons can be just as big as, say, Anthony So Will, all the way down to the little girl just leaving daycare, like. No one, like, yeah, I know it's a God and I know, you know what I'm saying? Of course, I know it's good and I know it's bad.

• 47:43Mike Boudet?

  They just let him keep talking. They let him drift through the vague philosophies and half-baked sermons in his little cabeza. According to him, no one wanted to hear his story, the real story, quote unquote. Again, you'll never convince a retard they're not a genius. He was fine talking about literally everything, except the murders.

• 48:10Speaker 04

  So you don't think anybody is gonna listen to your story, is that what you're saying? Bingo, bingo. We're here listening and we're the ones that are gonna have communication with the props here. That's what my job, you know, that's what my job. No, I'm like, they're all disagree with you. Like, man, I, you know, hate to seem like I'm wasting your time or anything, but, you know, this is like, I'm, like I told you earlier, I'm at the beginning line of some shit that you don't wanna go through. You don't wanna go through and probably, y'all probably wouldn't wish on y'all worst enemy that I'm at the starting line of. Mm-hmm. It's not like...

• 48:52Speaker 04

  It's not like we giving you what it is you want, gonna make this any easier for you. You know what I wanna do? I wanna do the hardest thing that a police officer ever has to do. Do you know what that is? Go to work. No. That's easy. Going out there when people are doing bad things and catching them, chasing them, fighting with them, whatever it takes, that's easy. I wanna do the hardest job when I have to go to somebody and say, "I'm, I'm sorry to tell you this, but your loved one is no longer with us. They're dead."

• 49:28Mike Boudet?

  This didn't faze Michael. He just kept talking until everyone in the room was numb. It's a cool parlor trick if you can do it. Politicians are great at it. It's a shame, though, he didn't talk until he was numb. Because he would have already been there a long time ago.

• 49:47Speaker 04

  I'm numb. I'm truly numb. I'm truly numb.

• 49:52Speaker 04

  I'm truly numb. I'm not expecting to be heard. You know, some, uh, they say prepare for the worst, hoping to best prepare for the worst. Like, whatever the worst is, like, I know it's still, like, it's not like I'm about to go to war. I'm not about to keep shooting or shit. Going to war, I'm about to be in front of the judge, around other criminals. That's what I'm saying is, man, like, I don't, I feel, I feel it's nothing. I feel it's not a damn thing, like, man. I'm sorry to hear that. It's like I said, man, this shit, like, this, this, this, this world that we live in,

• 50:33Speaker 04

  like, from generals in the army to tennis commanders, like, how you think some of these wars is gonna? They just send somebody out on the front line. No one, these dudes ain't gonna come back. They ain't even supposed to even come back.

• 50:48Mike Boudet?

  For the record, Michael was never in the military. He was just pulling out all the stops to make his case. Even by stealing valor. Even though he hadn't admitted to anything yet, he knew they had him. So, he would just hint at the motive, which was, "I was neglected. Nobody ever listened to me. My baby mama nags me all the time because I don't have a job. Wah. She makes me feel less than a man. Women all want one thing. Wah, wah, wah." Holy shit, what an insufferable asshole.

• 51:26Speaker 04

  I hope this serves as a way for these females to stop trying to fuck guys over. You know what I'm saying? Is that what happens when they fuck you over? Oh, I mean, other than the regular, um, non-necessarily, but it's gonna, it's gonna serve at some point. It gonna change. It's gonna be some type of shakeup. Did someone fuck you over? Is that what this is all about? Uh, I just don't know what this is about. I don't know what this is about. Who took you down? I don't know. But, you know, a good percentage of us shit their wives, run themselves for real.

• 52:04Mike Boudet?

  Then, out of the blue, probably because they were so numb from the talking, the cops flipped the switch and asked him point-blank.

• 52:14Speaker 04

  First time you ever killed anybody? You hear the first time? Was that like a trick question? No. Why is it a trick question? Nah, I ain't never killed nobody. Killed me a couple bugs or something. Is this the first time you've ever killed somebody? I ain't never killed nobody.

• 52:31Mike Boudet?

  But that was a lie. In an obscured part of the interview, that's barely audible, unfortunately, he admits to strangling one of the women. He was annoyed that she wouldn't leave and felt like she was trying to take advantage of him in some way. He was drunk, and all he remembered was putting his hands around her neck. He never said she died, but he never said her name. Later, he claimed he found a body in a garbage bag and carried it down to the garage. But, he never put it in there. It was a mirage of pieces. But

• 53:12Mike Boudet?

  the pieces corroborated the evidence, and it didn't take a genius to fill in the missing pieces. You could be the man right now. Let's do it. Like I know.

• 53:24Speaker 06

  I know you've got the power now. What do you think I mean, Mike?

• 53:29Speaker 04

  I don't know, you're not really being clear with it, you're kinda...

• 53:33Speaker 06

  You know what we found yesterday, right? Think about what I found today, Mike. What were you talking about yesterday? You said, "They're gonna learn, we're gonna teach, they deserve it."

• 53:45Speaker 04

  I was just talking out of the side of my face, delirious.

• 53:50Speaker 06

  Now, Mike, you don't wanna... And I was sitting there trying to put it all together. And after you... we took you back downstairs yesterday. Sergeant Ruth and I, and Sergeant Gardner, we sat down in my office. And we talked for a long time. And we just were trying to figure out what you were trying to tell us. And I, and Sergeant Ruth, know now what exactly what you were saying, bro. Mike, I know now. We jumped right in, Mike. We found it. I found out, you're a man. You weren't bullshitting.

• 54:25Speaker 04

  No, I don't wanna... it's clear, y'all are talking, but y'all not really telling me what you're... what is you saying?

• 54:32Speaker 06

  I got... I got... I got another body. I thought you were kinda blowing smoke up my ass yesterday, and me and Gardner and Ruth were talking about it. And I thought you were blowing smoke up my ass yesterday. I said, "I don't know." I said, "In a way, I think... I think he's telling me, just by his body language, just by his demeanor, some of the things he was saying." You say you're talking out of the side of your mouth. I think that that was... that was you wanted to tell your story, and I'm giving you an opportunity now to do it. And I'm telling you, I believe you now. I kinda half-assed believed you yesterday. And I'm believing you a hundred percent now.

• 55:07Speaker 04

  So you ain't... we ain't even on this one body we talking about. It's something totally different now?

• 55:15Speaker 06

  You... whichever one you wanna talk about. Mike, it ain't one.

• 55:19Mike Boudet?

  Let's shoot us all away, bro. Michael barely flinched. He had admitted to having dates to his apartment and getting so shitfaced that he didn't remember them leaving. He confessed to putting his hands around one of the women's necks and awakening to find a body in a garbage bag. That's bad. But even now, when confronted with more evidence and yet another body, he deflected. The detectives were running out of patience and now, they didn't just want to know why he killed. They wanted to know how many more dead women would be found and where they were located.

• 56:23Mike Boudet?

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• 57:06Mike Boudet?

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• 57:38Speaker 06

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• 58:23Speaker 06

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• 58:34Mike Boudet?

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• 59:28Mike Boudet?

  When they found the first body in East Cleveland in 2013, it was a trash bag in a garage. The neighbors had smelled something. By the time the police arrived, the case was already strange. The suspect, Michael Madison, was calm. He denied everything and admitted only enough to seem helpful. One woman, he said, was dead, but he hadn't killed her. He found her in a bag. He just moved her. That's all he claimed. But the evidence was there. They still didn't have a clear motive, though, only a suspect who talked in metaphors and acted like a victim all the time.

• 1:00:09Mike Boudet?

  This victim was also a father of two and a stepfather to one quiet teenager named Jalen, who years later would erupt into his own kind of violence in the same house on Chickasaw Avenue. The violence from both men was directed only at women, the women who raised Michael and her grandson Jalen, and three other innocent women who just happened to cross the wrong path.

• 1:00:39Speaker 06

  Mike, you got the power. Obviously, she disrespected you. Obviously, she put you in that position. Something happened, bro. She made you have to show her. And now, all I want you to do is just show me. We'll talk about whatever you want to talk about. You want to talk about the most recent one first, or you want to talk about another one? Whatever one you want, bro.

• 1:01:00Mike Boudet?

  In this tiny, blue interrogation room that resembled a prison cell, detectives and Michael sat for hours on end, eating cheeseburgers from McDonald's as the questions came one after another. While the barred window raised, Michael smoked black and mild cigars, the smoke mixing with the scent of sweat and making its way out the window to the sweltering streets of Cleveland. They were finally coming to understand this killer.

• 1:01:32Speaker 04

  And I guess even before, before here, just, you know, pretty much knowing like them at thirty-five, with no real background in school and no career, no 401K, kids, a baby mama as far as evil as they've come, you know, I'm a real, like, I'm a real compassionate dude when it comes to certain things.

• 1:01:58Speaker 06

  What kind of things?

• 1:02:00Speaker 04

  Just know people.

• 1:02:04Speaker 04

  People but somewhere along the way I just lost like I love like I like I love females not anymore but a man a man's a man's a man's man who should never be compromised when it comes to a female who's never been a man.

• 1:02:25Mike Boudet?

  It was a simple but disturbing statement. In that one sentence, Michael revealed a cracked mirror of identity, pride, and resentment against women. In 2025 especially, it's not unusual to hear the voices of frustration from men who feel diminished in relationships and society at large. Still, his words, though wrapped in philosophical language, revealed a specific grievance. This was a man whose sense of self had been shaped and maybe shattered by the women around him. Still, nothing could justify the brutality that followed.

• 1:03:05Mike Boudet?

  He never offered a formal confession, not in so many words, but he did give what experts call a "functional confession." That's when a suspect doesn't technically admit guilt, but their behavior shows it. They lead police to evidence only the killer would know. They describe crime scenes in detail. They help close the loop. Think of Ted Bundy, who helped investigators find remains even years after denying some of his murders. Or Israel Keyes, who mapped out the burial site of one of his victims despite refusing to name all of his crimes. It's not in what they say, it's in what they do.

• 1:03:50Mike Boudet?

  Michael finally took detectives to the bodies. The first was Sherelda Terry, the body found in the garage. A young girl, just starting her life. Next was 28-year-old Shatisha Shealy, who had a daughter. Her body was discovered in a brush pile near the garage behind Michael's apartment. It was bound in layers of heavy trash bags, the same method used for the other victims. Forensic examination was limited due to decomposition, but there were signs of trauma and possible strangulation.

• 1:04:32Mike Boudet?

  Shatisha had bruises on her face and her clothing had ligature marks. Last to be found was 38-year-old Angela Daskins. She was discovered days after the first body in a musty basement of an abandoned house near Michael's apartment. Angela was a quiet woman with a soft voice trying to piece her life back together. She had once worked as a hairdresser, someone who brought beauty to others, but she struggled to get by and pull her own life together. Someone introduced her to Michael. He seemed somewhat safe enough and had a calm personality. That was all it took.

• 1:05:15Mike Boudet?

  June 7th, they tell us that's when they last saw Angela. And since then, they say they have been frantically searching for her. But this week, police confirmed their worst fear that cops had found her body, that 38-year-old's body. Investigators right now aren't saying how she died. Cops discovered her remains in a backyard Saturday near Shaw Avenue. Now, new this morning, a statement from the family, quote, "Angela Daskins was a beautiful, sweet, kind-hearted woman. She was raised in novelty, Ohio by her father, Robert Daskins, and her stepmother, Linda Daskins. Everyone who knew her loved her. She was a wonderful daughter, sister, and aunt who truly cared about her family and friends.

• 1:05:58Mike Boudet?

  She is loved so much and will be missed by everyone who knew her." In the days after Michael's arrest, neighbors were quick to share their memories, not about him, but about his mother, Diane Madison, and what she'd been through. Everyone spoke highly of her.

• 1:06:15Speaker 03

  I want her to be remembered as someone who cared deeply for her children, someone who cared passionately about her community. She was just a fine person. I am a better person for have known her.

• 1:06:26Mike Boudet?

  Michael loved his mother. He admitted this openly, but he also alluded to neglect. What he didn't do in the interrogation was throw her under the bus. But the defense did that for him at the trial. The trial formally started in April of 2016.

• 1:06:47Mike Boudet?

  By early May, Madison had been convicted on all counts. Three counts of aggravated murder, three counts of kidnapping, three counts of gross abuse of a corpse, three counts of rape, and one count of possession of criminal tools. The following week, the court turned to mitigation evidence, opening the door for a glimpse into Michael's upbringing. Underneath the calm exterior of the woman next door, the community activist and loving mother and grandmother, the defense painted an entirely different portrait. They described Diane as cruel, neglectful, and violently abusive.

• 1:07:29Mike Boudet?

  Michael's attorneys revealed years of torment that started in childhood, documented by an expert clinical psychologist who evaluated Michael and examined his records. They said Diane beat him regularly, locked him in closets, and even forced him to eat feces. It didn't stop there. The defense told the court he was also sexually abused and emotionally abandoned. They argued that Diane's abuse left scars so deep that they helped shape the monster he would later become. During the victim impact statement given by Sharelda's father, chaos broke out in the

• 1:08:09Mike Boudet?

  courtroom when, for some reason, he stopped mid-sentence and lunged across tables towards Michael. He started attacking him and had to be pulled off. His sister later clarified what happened at that moment.

• 1:08:24Speaker 06

  During the sentencing, you have the families there, and they're pouring out their hearts and saying how they're gonna miss their families and what their families meant to him. And he's sitting over there smiling, which caused my brother to launch at him. To him, he heard, "Fuck the daughter..." That's okay. "...excuse me, the life of my daughter, the life of my niece, the life of our baby, who we call heaven." Okay, so it was horrible to be that close, to have to breathe his air, to be in the same room with a person that is so horrible and don't even care. He don't care. He was laughing when she gave him the death penalty.

• 1:09:01Mike Boudet?

  You heard it. At the end of the trial, no mitigating circumstances were going to stand in the way of justice. Michael Madison has now spent nearly a decade on Ohio's death row. He was sentenced on June 2, 2016, and was scheduled to die by lethal injection on May 20, 2021. But an unofficial moratorium on executions has stalled all lethal injections in Ohio since 2020. Want to know why? Well, they're waiting for an alternative execution

• 1:09:43Mike Boudet?

  method in place of lethal injection. You see, they can't get their hands on the right drugs to make the deadly cocktail. They can put dogs and cats to sleep all day long. All the strays, put them all to sleep in a humane way, we're told. But they can't get the cocktail right for humans. Isn't that strange? It's almost as if they don't want to and are just hiding behind some bullshit regulation in order to not do it, despite what the populace

• 1:10:20Mike Boudet?

  might have voted for already. Doesn't sound very democratic, does it? Anyway, for now, this asshole is still alive, as the system that condemned him sits frozen in time, almost by design.

• 1:10:39Speaker 06

  I am struck by the sheer inhumanity of what one human being can do to not one, but three human beings. It is incomprehensible. You cajoled, lured, and deceased Chetisha Shealy, Angela Deskins, and Sheronda Terry to your apartment for your depraved purposes. You went on to abuse the corpses of these three victims. You stripped them from the waist down.

• 1:11:13Speaker 06

  You folded them in half, binding them so that their feet were up by their ears. You wrapped them in multiple layers of trash bags, and you discarded them.

• 1:11:25Mike Boudet?

  This killer didn't just kill out of nowhere. His crimes were monstrous, but they happened after unresolved festering thoughts from a long and tangled legacy of suffering. Then, you add the alcohol and possibly drugs, and poof, you get a Sword and Scale episode. Lucky you. Decades later, in a cramped Cleveland apartment, a young Michael was beaten, locked in closets, humiliated, and allegedly forced to eat feces by the very person who was supposed to protect him, his mother, Diane Madison, a woman the public celebrated after her death.

• 1:12:07Mike Boudet?

  Later, he was allegedly sexually abused by one of her boyfriends. Michael felt emotionally discarded and shoved through the cracks of a system that barely noticed he was falling. Then came Tania Plummer, the mother of his child, who, according to Michael, belittled him and called him less than a man. "A man's manhood," he said, "should never be compromised by a female who's never been a man." That quote may sound absurd on the surface, but beneath it lies a cold bit of truth, one that points to a deeper identity crisis, especially among men raised in trauma by women who are in trauma themselves.

• 1:12:52Mike Boudet?

  It's a warped belief, born in pain and shaped by powerlessness. It's an endless loop I don't know how the fuck we get out of. Do you have any ideas? And then came Jalen, Diane's grandson, the quiet boy who watched all of this unfold, who once lived under the same roof as Michael. In 2019, Jalen, just 18 years old, would creep into Diane Madison's home and stab her to death in her own bed. He didn't just kill her, he nearly decapitated her. He pleaded guilty in 2021 and is serving a life sentence with eligibility for parole

• 1:13:37Mike Boudet?

  in 30 years. His brother, sister, cousin, and sad little dog all survived the incident and remained in the care of their mother, Tania Plummer. So here is the question. Did Jalen inherit the same demons that haunted Michael? Was this demonic possession some sort of poltergeist in this house of horror? Or do we accept a more rational explanation? Did Jalen learn violence by watching his uncle in and out of his life, bringing stories of abuse and death with him?

• 1:14:19Mike Boudet?

  Did Diane really change into the person neighbors claimed? Or did the darkness inside that house simply go unnoticed until it exploded again? Did the systems America has in place fail both of these men? Or did society simply stop asking the hard questions and stop doing the hard things once the bodies were found? In the end, does it all really matter, anyway? It should. We all have this feeling in the back of our mind that it should. We should do better at raising all of our children.

• 1:15:02Mike Boudet?

  We should have a safer and happier and more mentally sound civilization. It started with the allegations of abuse at the hands of one woman. Two men carried it forward, and three innocent women, in addition to Diane herself, paid the ultimate price. Not one of them deserved to die.

• 1:15:45Mike Boudet?

  That's gonna do it this week. Thank you for joining us. I invite you to go check out our latest episode of Sword and Scale Television entitled, "Home." Easily one of the most fucked up things you'll ever see, I promise.

• 1:16:48Speaker 07

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• 1:17:33Speaker 07

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• 1:17:47Speaker 03

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