The Makings of Musician Anderson .Paak

Musician Anderson . Paak has always marched to the beat of his own drum. Whether he’s on the church circuit in Oxnard, center stage at the Grammys, or as one half of groups like NxWorries and Silk Sonic, Anderson is joyfully, defiantly, himself. Watch this conversation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2_fjnFSaxw on YouTube. The versatile singer-songwriter joins us this week to discuss his directorial debut, K-Pops! (3:31), the music—Frankie Beverly & Maze, Earth, Wind & Fire, Stevie Wonder—that shaped his upbringing in Oxnard, CA (14:05), and the life-changing afternoon that eventually inspired the track “Battlefield” (16:00). Then, Anderson reflects on discovering the drums in middle school (21:15), his winding road to becoming a professional musician (27:35), and how his SoundCloud hit “Suede” stopped Dr. Dre in his tracks (42:20). On the back-half, we dive into the whirlwind decade following the release of “Malibu”: featuring a lesson in presence from Snoop Dogg (58:00), tour life (1:00:15), the spirit of James Brown (1:02:08), collaborating with Smokey Robinson on the instant classic “Make it Better” (1:07:15), his next record (1:16:00), and how he hopes the music continues to evolve in the years ahead (1:19:00). Thoughts or future guest ideas? Email us at [email protected]. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:15Sam Fragoso?

  This is Talk Easy. I'm Sam Forgo, so welcome to the show.

• 0:32Sam Fragoso?

  Today, rapper and singer-songwriter Anderson Paak. He's the frontman for Anderson Paak and the Free Nationals, one half of groups like No Worries and Silk Sonic, and a Grammy Award-winning musician in his own right. He raps, he sings, he plays the drums. He's collaborated with everyone from Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg to Mariah Carey and Eminem, all while remaining entirely, unequivocally, himself. Spirited, soulful, and just introspective enough to know that none of it is forced or feigned. You can hear all of that in the music, just as you'll be able to hear it in this interview. He's like a walking, talking, singing antidepressant. His joy, utterly infectious,

• 1:15Sam Fragoso?

  but also, as we discuss, pretty hard fought. We sat down recently around the release of his directorial debut, K-Pops, a father-son comedy starring Anderson and his actual son, Tay. In the film, Anderson plays a washed-up musician who improbably lands a gig as the drummer of a K-pop reality TV show in South Korea, where he also discovers that one of the contestants, played by Tay, is actually the son he never knew he had. The film is coming out exclusively in AMC Theaters beginning February 27, and if you want to find tickets, you can go to our website at talkeasypod.com. Along with the film's release, Anderson is celebrating the 10-year anniversary of Malibu,

• 1:59Sam Fragoso?

  which was really the record that changed everything for the West Coast rapper and singer-songwriter. And so this felt like a good time to have him on and take stock. We discussed his formative years, learning to play drums in Oxnard's church circuit, some leaner years in Los Angeles, where he nearly gave up on music, and the whirlwind decade of touring that followed Malibu and eventually led to this conversation. Before we get into it, I just wanted to say that today's episode is on video. You can head to Talk Easy with Sam Fragoso on YouTube or click the link in the description. We're still getting used to video, but I just love what the team did this week.

• 2:38Sam Fragoso?

  And so with that, here is my conversation with musician, singer songwriter, and now director, Anderson Paak. Enjoy.

• 3:00Sam Fragoso?

  Anderson Paak.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 3:02Sam Fragoso?

  Welcome to the show.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 3:03Sam Fragoso?

  How are you feeling?

• 3:04Speaker 01

  I feel great. Dry January, sober as a gopher.

• 3:07Sam Fragoso?

  Mm hmm. Maybe by the end, are we gonna break Dry January?

• 3:10Speaker 01

  I don't want to break it. Like, I'm enjoying not being hung over every morning.

• 3:14Sam Fragoso?

  I know. Isn't that good?

• 3:15Speaker 01

  But it's my birthday next month and it's gonna be tough. Yeah.

• 3:20Sam Fragoso?

  How are you feeling?

• 3:21Speaker 01

  I feel good.

• 3:22Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah?

• 3:22Speaker 01

  I'm optimistic about my 40s. My mom says that it's like you're gonna have a new wave and a whole burst of creativity will come. And everyone seems to think that 40s are really good, so.

• 3:32Sam Fragoso?

  We're talking around the 10 year anniversary of Malibu, which was kind of the record that put you on the map back in 2016. And from the moment that album dropped, you spent most of your time either in the studio working or on the road touring around the world, pretty much away from family and friends and at home and all that. So tell me, when the pandemic like grinds everything to a halt, did you discover that there was another project with your son waiting for you at home?

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And I discovered I had children that needed some attention.

• 4:05Sam Fragoso?

  And so just to be clear, you discovered you had kids once the pandemic happened?

• 4:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, like, I knew I had kids, but it was like-

• 4:12Sam Fragoso?

  Was like kind of the idea of them before?

• 4:14Speaker 01

  Well, it was like learning about their interests, you know, and like just hanging with them. It was like, wow, I'm home now. I have nowhere to go, no tours. Like, I got these two little rugrats and, um, yeah, I should probably be present and like chill with them and- Get to know them more and what they're interested in. At the time, my son was like eight or something. I almost said six, seven. I gotta, we gotta leave that behind.

• 4:37Sam Fragoso?

  We gotta move on as a culture.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  But yeah, I was at the house and I was chilling and I was just being a dad. And it was, it was awesome, just hanging out with them. And my oldest son, I was like, what are you into? What do you want to do? And you know, like, I'm like that guy, like, okay, well, you gotta start planning, son. You're eight, you know, you'll be forty before you know it. But he was like, I want to be a YouTuber. And I was like, okay.

• 4:59Sam Fragoso?

  How do you feel about that?

• 5:00Speaker 01

  I didn't know how to feel. I was just, I didn't know what the hell that meant at the time. I was like, okay, I knew YouTube and I knew like what it was to go viral. And I was just curious how he was gonna do that and what his content was, I guess. And he proceeded to show me videos of him playing Minecraft and Fortnite.

• 5:19Sam Fragoso?

  Fortnite, right.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  And, you know, he was doing that and I was like, okay. And I looked at, he said he wanted subscribers and he probably had a handful of subscribers.

• 5:28Sam Fragoso?

  I feel like you could probably help with that.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  That's what I told him. I was like, son, come on, utilize me. You see what I'm working with over here? I see what you're working with.

• 5:35Sam Fragoso?

  I'm a tool meant to be used.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  I'm a tool, son, and let me show you how to do this. No one wants to watch these video game tutorials.

• 5:41Sam Fragoso?

  So, so then you take over YouTube and do you show them like your viral Tiny Desk performance?

• 5:46Speaker 01

  No, I didn't do any of that. I was just like, I think we could do better with your content. I think we should maybe try to do some funny skits.

• 5:54Sam Fragoso?

  So you became a content strategist?

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was like, we need to exploit your strengths, son, and.

• 6:00Sam Fragoso?

  And, and to be clear, use the word exploit there, that's right?

• 6:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I think I was, you could use it, like, it doesn't always have to be negative, right? Exploit your strengths, right?

• 6:11Sam Fragoso?

  Look, I, I've been trying to exploit mine ten years on this show, so.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  So I broke it down to him and we proceeded to do like a bunch of bits and skits. And that's when I realized, oh my God, he's so funny. He's a natural. And then I wanted to be a YouTuber more than him. I was starting to be like, okay, let's set goals and let's get you a thousand subscribers by the end of the week. And I was posting on my page and I got into his world. And I probably ruined it for him because I got so into it that I was like, yo, I'm writing a script. This is gonna be amazing. We're gonna get to do this all the time. Hang out and like triple the budget and like, let's do it. And, you know, now I'm thinking about, he was probably just enjoying like just hanging with his pops and doing stuff and.

• 6:52Sam Fragoso?

  So this kind of homegrown passion to make some YouTube videos turned into a multimillion dollar

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:00Sam Fragoso?

  feature-length film.

• 7:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, in AMC theater near you.

• 7:02Sam Fragoso?

  This is what happens when you tell your father, and you happen to be the father, your dreams.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  This is what happens when you exploit your strengths.

• 7:08Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah. Okay, so tell me about the film. What was the idea that got you into it, once you figured out that he wanted to maybe be a YouTuber?

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, what was going on at the same time was my house was being like taken over by the K-pop invasion at my house full-blown. His mom is full Korean.

• 7:24Sam Fragoso?

  Around the house, what was played more BTS or NWA?

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Definitely BTS.

• 7:29Sam Fragoso?

  Was that tough for you?

• 7:30Speaker 01

  It wasn't tough. I was just like, okay, this is different. And everything I do is pretty much to get my family's approval, my son's approval, for them to think I'm cool. So that was just, it was just another thing where I was like, okay, how am I gonna get to BTS so that my family thinks I'm cool? Yeah, I was learning more about the music and I felt like a little bit outsider looking in because before that, my son was like my biggest A and R. He loved everything I did. He only really listened to my stuff and I would ask him, what, what do you think of this? And, you know, he would tell me what the video should be and everything. And now he was getting his own interest. He was into other music and he was learning other stuff and.

• 8:05Sam Fragoso?

  So he swapped out Silk Sonic for BTS?

• 8:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:09Sam Fragoso?

  Wow.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  And this is even, you know, before Silk Sonic, so.

• 8:11Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, no worries for BTS.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. He was heavy into it.

• 8:14Sam Fragoso?

  No more Free Nationals.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  Exactly. So I was like, you know what? Can't beat him, join him. I need to start figuring this out quick. So I said, you know what? What if I wrote a script that was like, kind of based around this loosely where it's like, I didn't know I had a son. And the son that I don't know could be the next K-pop star. And I could learn more about K-pop, he could learn more about, you know, his black heritage and, you know, groups like Earth, Wind & Fire and Jackson 5. And we can bring those two worlds together and bridge them. And I could tell these, this unique story that I felt like only I could tell. And I took it a bunch of places and everywhere I went, people were trying to take the idea and kind of hand it over to someone else.

• 8:49Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm. They didn't want you to direct.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  They didn't trust it, I don't think. Yeah.

• 8:52Sam Fragoso?

  You seem trustworthy.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'm the most trustworthy person I know. And also the most humble, yeah.

• 8:56Sam Fragoso?

  How many people you know?

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Just me and you, Zayn. Yeah.

• 8:59Sam Fragoso?

  And you can tell of the two of us, you're the more trustworthy.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  I am, obviously.

• 9:02Sam Fragoso?

  Of course.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:03Sam Fragoso?

  This is the most elaborate ploy for familial love that I've ever seen. Like, you put this thing together so that the two of you can spend more time.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:12Sam Fragoso?

  And so that he'll come back around to Free National, Silk Sonic, Silk Sonic and No Worries. In the film itself, which you did direct, you play a struggling musician who had spent a decade in Los Angeles, like, not quite making it, still heartbroken over a woman who ultimately didn't want to stand by his side while he pursued his dream. Basically, it's like an alternate version of you, if you never got married or made the song "Sway" and then eventually found your way into the studio with Dr. Dre.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 9:41Sam Fragoso?

  The character of BJ, he gets a gig in a house band in Seoul for this K-pop competition show. What happens next?

• 9:48Speaker 01

  He gets there and he gets on set. The first day, he's late and things are moving fast. He almost gets fired first day. And that same day, he meets his little kid named Taeyung. Taeyung is, always has a camera on him. He's taking pictures. He's a little quirky kid. When he meets him, Taeyung kind of shows him around, shows him the ropes. He asks him what he knows about K-pop and I tell him, I don't know anything about it, not a damn thing. He's pretty self-centered. He's kind of got his own mission that he's on. Until a few days later, he sees, BJ sees his ex pull up to pick up Taeyung. And that's when BJ like starts shitting bricks, like, why is she here? And how is, that's your kid? And wait, now the kid somehow was, like, there's a resemblance now. I'm

• 10:33Speaker 01

  freaking out. And she's not saying anything. And, uh, yeah, chaos ensues.

• 10:38Sam Fragoso?

  It, it really does.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:40Sam Fragoso?

  I've seen the film twice now and I want people to hear and see just a little bit of it. In this scene, BJ is explaining to his son that all the music he loves now, mainly BTS, comes from a history of, of black music. And how that musical history is actually part of his own history. So this is a clip from the film, K-Pops.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  Now, follow me. See these? These are the Avengers of music.

• 11:08Speaker 02

  Sick.

• 11:08Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. And if K-pop is about boy bands and girl bands, well, hell, this gotta be one of the greatest boy bands ever. The Jackson Five. Yep. To put in your little K-pop terms, Michael Jackson would be the center, the face of the group. The ace of all aces.

• 11:25Speaker 02

  In that case, that makes BTS today's Jackson Five.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  That's right. The Jacksons walked in order for BTS to dance. They wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them. And in order to know where you're going, you gotta know where you've been. You dig? Yeah. Oh, watch your wife watch.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  Girl.

• 11:47Speaker 02

  Girl.

• 11:48Speaker 01

  We outside, ain't we? Where we at? Worldwide, right?

• 11:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:52Speaker 03

  The biz.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  Where y'all going? Don't gasp me out. No, no, let me tell you. Hey, I'm trying to keep up with you.

• 11:57Speaker 03

  Okay. Black don't crack, baby.

• 11:59Speaker 01

  And we gonna stay black. Ain't got no choice.

• 12:01Speaker 03

  Boy, you better cool it.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  You too, young man.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, him? Yeah, trip out the whole block.

• 12:05Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  Hey, it's all good, though. Hey, be blessed.

• 12:08Speaker 02

  All right now.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  Get to where you're going safely.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  Keep your head up.

• 12:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  Traveling mercies to you all.

• 12:12Speaker 03

  All right, we gotta go, girl. We don't miss our train.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:16Speaker 02

  Do you know them?

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Absolutely not. But spiritually, we're like this, okay? You see, you come from a long line of kings, queens, scholars, philosophers, ballers, shot callers. Yeah. The diaspora is strong.

• 12:33Speaker 01

  And it's in you. Let's kick rocks.

• 12:36Speaker 02

  Wait, we're not gonna buy these?

• 12:37Speaker 01

  Hell, no. It's on streaming. Come on. Gotcha.

• 12:43Sam Fragoso?

  The Jacksons walked in order for BTS to dance.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. That's right. Yeah, I co-wrote the movie, so you know. That was all me, right?

• 12:52Sam Fragoso?

  Was that all you?

• 12:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:54Sam Fragoso?

  Are there lines in the movie where you're like, yep, that's an Anderson?

• 12:56Speaker 01

  I don't suppose so, man. I was doing a lot of on the spot, trying stuff out. Shout out to Kayla Amazon, my co-writer. She was, she's got great lines in there as well. We're a dynamic duo.

• 13:06Sam Fragoso?

  And were those your two sisters in the film?

• 13:08Speaker 01

  They were, yeah. Those are my two sisters, making the cameo. We were actually in Seoul, Korea. And that scene in particular was one of the scenes that I kind of had, like, in the beginning of the whole process. I knew I wanted to break down the genesis of K-pop music and how it relates to black culture and, you know, American pop music and how it's all intertwined and nothing new in the sun. But also I wanted to get a moment where black people see other black people somewhere foreign and we just start just talking. Hey, what's up? Hey, hey, hey, how's it going? And I really wanted that in the movie and I wanted, I wanted it to be played by, you know, my sisters.

• 13:45Sam Fragoso?

  I love that refrain in the scene. In order to know where you're going, you gotta know where you've been. And so to that, like, as a young kid, living in that tract home on Stern Lane, there's a middle-class part of Oxnard, your mother was selling strawberries, your father, an aircraft mechanic at a Navy base nearby, what was the music around your house?

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Oh, man. Earth, Wind & Fire, Frankie Beverly and Maze, Tony, Tony, Tony, Freddie Jackson, Shaka Khan, Stevie Wonder, Snoop, Dre, Ice Cube, Jodeci, H-Town, Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, Nirvana.

• 14:23Sam Fragoso?

  You've worked with some of them.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:25Sam Fragoso?

  Did it seem important to everyone else in the family?

• 14:27Speaker 01

  I think I was probably the kid that was, I had a real obsession with music and lyrics and the beats and the dancing. It was a huge part of my life.

• 14:38Sam Fragoso?

  What did that obsession look like?

• 14:40Speaker 01

  I remember avidly just, my mom grew up in LA, but we were raised in like Oxnard, Ventura County, which is about an hour away. Very different than where she grew up, like in South Central and Compton. So where we grew up, it was mainly Latinos and whites. And so I think my mom would like to do these outings where we could be around black people. Cause we, other than like in the church or. Here and there, there weren't that many in my, in our neighborhood. And so she would get us all together and take us places like Slauson Swap Meet. And we would go and be surrounded by black people and it'd be like real culture shock for even me. But I loved hip hop. I loved R and B. I loved all these music and hip hop culture. And we would go and I would get these tapes that they would sell at the swap meet. And it would be like a mixtape of all the latest, like hottest songs.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  It'd be like Dr. J, Snoop, Cypress Hill, everything. It would be whatever favorite song I, I had at that time, I would go and I would obsess over learning the whole song, like in a day or two. So that next time it was on, I could just recite it. And, and next time I was at school during recess, that's what we did. We just like rap the whole song, you know, battle and break dance, you know? And even for show and tell, I would be like, I'm gonna perform Snoop Dogg's Gin and Juice for show and tell.

• 15:53Sam Fragoso?

  How old are you then?

• 15:53Speaker 01

  Six.

• 15:54Sam Fragoso?

  Six?

• 15:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:55Sam Fragoso?

  Wow.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  But it was stuff like that. I was obsessed with like learning the dances and uh, I wanted to be an entertainer and I wanted to, I was already writing like little raps and stuff and dressing the part and it was a healthy obsession that my other sisters and you know, I could tell they liked music, but I loved it and obsessed, yeah.

• 16:12Sam Fragoso?

  You know, on the track Battlefield that you made, uh, with No Worries, which we're hoping your son is gonna come back around on. He's gonna like him again.

• 16:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, he likes that one.

• 16:21Sam Fragoso?

  You sing about, talking about you being at six, losing your innocence at the age of six. When you look back on that afternoon of July nineteen ninety-three, how does it play to you now in this moment?

• 16:34Speaker 01

  It's still pretty vivid. It's just so many different things. You know, I saw my mom pretty much, you know, fighting within the interest of her life on the street, blood and my pops on top of her and telling us like, get back in the house and just so much panic and chaos. And that was the last time I seen my dad alive. And, um, and I remember just being like a kid and being like, There's no way, like, that's not my dad. And my dad was also a twin. So I remember having a lot of denial at the time. Because before that, my dad was, that was my hero. And I was really young, but I still remember him spending a lot of time with us and being really sweet. And him working on, like, classic cars and just like being really cool and being silly with us. And my mom was very private. She kept a lot of stuff from us.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  And I didn't know that my dad was an addict. And I didn't know that she had been trying to get him well and was going to AA. And I didn't know that they were estranged. I didn't know that. I just thought he was working and he would come back and he was busy. And when he came back, he was so fun. But so when that happened, it was just like, whoa, I didn't know what I was seeing. I didn't want to believe what I was seeing. And yeah, I think I kind of just started doing things to kind of cope with that ever since. What do you do? I think I started creating my world from there to protect myself. I think that's when I started really diving in deep to creating a different reality than what I was seeing outside. And going into escapism within music and imagining me being different places.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  And I would, I remember spending hours and just looking in the mirror, making faces and doing weird impersonations and sounds. I was always embarrassed to look in the mirror. Yeah. I didn't want to see. Yeah. I was like, I was disappointed. I never met a mirror I didn't like. Yeah, I just, I just, I remember spending a lot of time by myself, just being weird and trying, you know, and thinking like, oh yeah, this is how I'm going to be in the movie and this one with this. And then I, you know, me and my sister would, my little sister, who's two years younger than us, we would make little movies. And we would always, when our free time, we were like, all right, let's, let's do, I didn't know at the time, but we were doing like sketches and bits. We're just us, like, okay, you're Tina Turner, I'm Ike, and we're gonna, we used to do stuff like that. Couldn't you have found any other examples?

• 18:45Speaker 01

  When you grew up like us, that's what the examples were, you know? With those, those were our home movies that we used to watch, like What's Love Got To Do With It? And movies like that and Tim Tations and Friday Juice and. Couldn't have someone played Stevie or something? Yeah, yeah, we had Stevie too, but yeah, we were, uh, we were working with what we had. And, um, but it was that escapism. But you, you felt like you had to escape because what you were seeing suddenly.

• 19:09Sam Fragoso?

  No longer made sense.

• 19:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Looking back now, I think that's what it was.

• 19:14Sam Fragoso?

  Because at the time, I mean, did it terrify you? Was it disorienting?

• 19:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was. It was just, I didn't want to see my mom like that. It was just.

• 19:24Sam Fragoso?

  And she didn't want you to see her like that, yeah.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  And it was, everything kind of just moved upside down. But my mom is such a strong figure and so resilient. After she got well and they eventually split, she never talked bad about him.

• 19:41Sam Fragoso?

  About your dad?

• 19:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, she was always spoke positive about him and said, you know, he was the greatest dad. It was just this battle with addiction. He just got the best of him and it turned him into a different person. And he loves you guys. And she moved on and she kept moving and her business got bigger. She remarried. And I saw her go through that traumatic experience and just brush it off and just keep going.

• 20:03Sam Fragoso?

  Because you guys moved to Ventura.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:04Sam Fragoso?

  She was selling strawberries and then turned it into this huge

• 20:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:08Sam Fragoso?

  distribution business with, I think, your stepfather at the time.

• 20:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:11Sam Fragoso?

  When was the first time she heard you play music?

• 20:14Speaker 01

  The first time I remember is when I got a drum set.

• 20:19Sam Fragoso?

  Because it's like middle school?

• 20:20Speaker 01

  This is middle school. I was probably like sixth grade. And I was, I was in band, but it was like, you know, playing in orchestra band and I was, wanted to quit. I didn't want to read music. It was boring and I didn't like the teacher, but.

• 20:31Sam Fragoso?

  I mean, weren't you trying to get girls?

• 20:33Speaker 01

  I was, but I didn't see it happening. I needed a fast track. There was no more, I thought I was going to play sax, which is way more better to seduce the ladies.

• 20:41Sam Fragoso?

  Right.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  There were no more sax, so I was playing on a bass drum.

• 20:44Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm. So it was kind of a dead end.

• 20:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And so I needed answers. I needed something click.

• 20:50Sam Fragoso?

  I needed answers.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:51Sam Fragoso?

  You're in sixth grade.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And so.

• 20:54Sam Fragoso?

  The saxophone is, I'm not getting it.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:56Sam Fragoso?

  I, I don't have a sixth grade girlfriend.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  Exactly. I have braces, I'm chubby. It's, I had a lot, I had a full deck of cards. And so I was coming home and I, yeah, my stepfather was on the drums and.

• 21:07Sam Fragoso?

  He was a big Prince guy, right?

• 21:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was playing Prince on the drums and. I was like, oh, the drum set. That's pretty cool. And I remember seeing people play the drums in church and stuff, but I never thought to get on them. And once he was done playing, I mean, it was a while before I even got on the drum set that was at the house. It was my stepdad was playing it for a while, but I got on the drums and I just started tinkering around. And before I know it, I was playing a beat. And for the first time, I was like, damn, I'm playing an instrument and it's like coming natural to me. Like I could feel like this is something. And my mom came out dancing. She was like in her pajamas. She was like, okay. And my mom's a big critic. She tells you how it is. And that was, she was like, she was always working, always stuff. So to see her let loose and like have fun and stuff, that was a big for me.

• 21:50Sam Fragoso?

  Was that the first time you saw her like let loose like that?

• 21:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, like one of the first times I really remember her coming out and like.

• 21:56Sam Fragoso?

  And you were responsible for it.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, she, there was, my mom was like, my mom doesn't smoke, she doesn't drink, she doesn't curse. But she's big on family time and she was always bringing people together, being a great host and cook and everything. And we did see that silly side or that time where she's dancing and letting loose. It was a joy to see. And that was the time I got to see it as a reaction to what I was doing. And it clicked like, wow, I'm causing this. I'm gonna keep this up.

• 22:22Sam Fragoso?

  To be that good at something the first time you do it. I mean, what do you make of that? Like, is this something like innate?

• 22:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, the thing is, right away, my mom was like, okay, you got something. This, this is what you need to do. And she, she just like gave me a bunch of homework. So she was like, you need to learn how to play this, play this. Archie Bell and the Drills, tighten up, like learn how to do this. So I knew that I could start somewhere, but I, I had the want to get better. Like, yeah, I'm gonna just do this and I want to do this. I want to lock myself, just like that kid that was learning lyrics. Like now I got something. I'm of use. I can be a part of this, right? And so I just had the passion to just, from sixth grade all the way till after high school, everything. I, that's all I did was I wanted to get better at playing drums. And before I knew it, my god sister came over and she was like, oh, you're playing drums? Come play at the church. Then I got introduced to the church and the gospel church and gospel music, really.

• 23:15Sam Fragoso?

  You were a drummer on the Oxnard gospel circuit, playing at St. Paul's Baptist Church, I think. Is that what it was?

• 23:21Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 23:21Sam Fragoso?

  I was thinking about D'Angelo, who also grew up playing in churches. And I remember he said once, when he was in the church, they taught him, when you perform-

• 23:29Speaker 01

  I found a former fashion. You're a vessel, you know, to God be the glory. It's not about you.

• 23:34Sam Fragoso?

  Did you feel that, growing up and learning how to play in the church?

• 23:36Speaker 01

  Very much so, because they'll embarrass the shit out of you if you're not playing the right stuff, too slow, anything. You learn how to follow choir director. You learn how to work with an organist. And you learn how to be a vessel so that the spirit can move freely.

• 23:49Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 23:49Speaker 01

  Right? It's not about your ego. It's not about you showboating and making it about you, because people are trying to get a breakthrough. They're trying to praise God. And some people are having a really tough time and they come to get filled with the spirit and to let out. And I went to a black church with people, the Holy Ghost, and everything is very real. And so we're there to usher, help usher in the spirit. It's very serious and it's very fun, too. I think that's what it's about. That was my foundation.

• 24:13Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 24:13Speaker 01

  And it kept you humble and it kept you, people say like, I'm a vessel, you know? And that's really what it is.

• 24:19Sam Fragoso?

  But you seem like someone who would be a pretty confident kid. Was that hard to keep it tight?

• 24:24Speaker 01

  I honestly, I was, I was a silly kid. I'm, I'm a people pleaser at heart. I'm very much like collaboratory. I like when everybody's having a good time.

• 24:33Sam Fragoso?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  I like to be a part of it. I don't have to be the front. And even growing in church, there was always people that were just, I thought, 10 times better than me in anything. Even the organist player could play drums better than me. Everybody could do everything. So I was humbled from, especially when I started going and playing in church. I was just like, I just want to be on the drums and not get yelled at, you know? And it stayed with me. And even till I got older, I was trying to find my own voice and everything. So I think the confidence kind of came later with experience and with learning more and gaining a bigger vocabulary.

• 25:04Sam Fragoso?

  I, I read somewhere that in, in high school, in classes, you would always be like, playing songs and beats on the desk and basically you would hear the music in your head.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:14Sam Fragoso?

  And the school called home and they told your mother like, hey-

• 25:18Speaker 01

  Something's wrong with him.

• 25:18Sam Fragoso?

  He's causing a problem.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:20Sam Fragoso?

  And you said to her, I'm just playing the songs I'm hearing.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, your son might have Tourette's. He's making weird songs, sounds.

• 25:28Sam Fragoso?

  You know, I wasn't gonna ask it like that.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's how my mom sells it.

• 25:33Sam Fragoso?

  But would it course through you? Is that kind of how it went?

• 25:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would be beatboxing and-

• 25:36Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, give me some beatboxing.

• 25:41Sam Fragoso?

  That's pretty good.

• 25:41Speaker 01

  Put some effects on that later if you want.

• 25:43Sam Fragoso?

  Are you doing that?

• 25:44Speaker 01

  You could do that in post.

• 25:45Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, you want us to do it?

• 25:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 25:46Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, OK. A little collaboration.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  Send me the audio. I got you.

• 25:48Sam Fragoso?

  OK. Yeah, WAV file?

• 25:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:50Sam Fragoso?

  Did your classmates think, OK, he's doing something? Like, you're making a mixtape called, uh, Where's My Uncle At?

• 25:57Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:58Sam Fragoso?

  Now, I couldn't find that mixtape.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, you gotta dig deep. Dark web.

• 26:02Sam Fragoso?

  I went far. I got just about everything else. We can play songs from cover art if you want.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 26:07Sam Fragoso?

  I won't do it, too. But if I were to hear something on that record, your first mixtape in high school, what would one of those songs sound like?

• 26:14Speaker 01

  It would probably be a lot of songs that were heavy, like Timberland-inspired, Neptune-inspired, Kanye West-inspired, Jay-Z.

• 26:24Sam Fragoso?

  You can give us a verse.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  I can't think of it. I remember I had one song where I'm like dating the girls from all over the world. China, India, you know, stuff like that. I was very-

• 26:33Sam Fragoso?

  United Nations.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. Very influenced by like, things like Rockefeller and, you know, Tupac Biggie. But at that era, that 2000, 2004 era when I did that project, I was doing all the beats. I was recording myself. I was, you know, rapping and I think my sister was singing on a couple of songs. I was determined that I was gonna get signed. By the time I got out of high school, I was gonna be signed to The Rock with Jay-Z and I would be, you know, touring the world. And there was nothing really anybody could tell me at that point. I was obsessed and, uh, I had a few friends, you know, at the time. I was friends with like, everybody. Like, I was friends with nerds and jocks, whatever.

• 27:12Sam Fragoso?

  Do you want to just say that you were popular?

• 27:14Speaker 01

  I was popular, yeah. But like, you know, not one of those mean, popular kids. Like, I was cool with everyone, you know? I could be in any circle. I could utilize everyone.

• 27:24Sam Fragoso?

  You mean exploit?

• 27:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, for their strengths. Yeah.

• 27:27Sam Fragoso?

  It sounds like you're running for office.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was just trying to gradually, honestly, so.

• 27:32Sam Fragoso?

  But you were making music.

• 27:33Speaker 01

  I was making music.

• 27:34Sam Fragoso?

  When was the first time your musical gifts got you a girl?

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Mmm.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  I mean, I think it got me, when I got married to my, my two sons mom, that was, that's the one I really remember, like, cause, cause she was from Korea, she hardly speak English. So you gotta be real smart in how you communicate and the things you do that could get you a date. It's different when you don't speak the language.

• 28:00Sam Fragoso?

  What did you do?

• 28:01Speaker 01

  I got on the keys and I played a song and I started singing.

• 28:03Sam Fragoso?

  An original?

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:04Sam Fragoso?

  Really?

• 28:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:05Sam Fragoso?

  Do, do I know it?

• 28:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's out there. That was going by Breezy Lovejoy at the time. And it was, this song is called Girl's Best Friend.

• 28:37Speaker 01

  And this is when I had transitioned to playing like keys and singing. And I was doing original material at this college musicians institute where we met. And yeah, I remember playing on keys and her just, you know, then she started looking at me different. Before I was just this annoying kid that was like, hi, trying to say something. And then it was like, okay, he might have potential. No, but I could see it in the eyes, you know, the he might have potential look that people give you sometimes. She started seeing the next five to 10 years.

• 29:07Sam Fragoso?

  Right. And did you also see the next five to 10 years?

• 29:09Speaker 01

  I couldn't see shit back then. I had stigmatism and I needed prescription glasses that weren't broken. So I could barely see 10 feet in front of me.

• 29:16Sam Fragoso?

  It's always good to make the metaphor literal.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  That's the, that's the balance you need. You needed someone that has vision.

• 29:23Sam Fragoso?

  I mean, as a teenager, young guy, I remember in one record you sampled that Rodney Dangerfield bit.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:31Speaker 04

  Ah, it's right, Doc. But everyone wants love. Love is the answer, Johnny. Everyone's looking for love, deep love, a lifetime of deep love, you know? I'm looking for a shallow half hour, you know?

• 29:40Speaker 05

  Don't you have luck with women?

• 29:41Speaker 04

  I never had luck with women. No ladies, man, I know that, Johnny. And if I got girls, I was a kid in show business either, you know? One girl told me, "Come on over, there's nobody home." I went over, there was nobody home.

• 29:51Sam Fragoso?

  You went over and nobody's home?

• 29:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:54Sam Fragoso?

  Did you feel like that as a young guy?

• 29:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, I still feel like that, just like...

• 29:57Sam Fragoso?

  How could you still feel like that?

• 29:58Speaker 01

  Well, it's just, I don't know, it just seems a part of it, like, I have this kind of like... I'm always expecting the worst. I'm always thinking like, "Oh, yeah, just my luck, there it goes." Well, you know, we do this old podcast, and you're like, "Hey, it's not coming out, sorry, man, I didn't..." "I wasn't recording." But, uh, that was awesome, you know, and I would, I'd be like, "Yeah, that's probably, that's how it goes sometimes with me."

• 30:20Sam Fragoso?

  Can I say, I think things have worked out pretty well.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  It has, it has.

• 30:24Sam Fragoso?

  Just want to put that out there as well.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, things have worked out exceptionally well, and I'm very blessed, and I just think it's probably just, you know, a little bit based on the background and being afraid of things being, going too well sometimes and...

• 30:35Sam Fragoso?

  What do you think that is? Like, if it goes too well, then something bad is right around the corner?

• 30:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that, I think like the Japanese have a word for it or something, but sometimes it's like, these moments I have of bliss and everything's so happy, it kind of, sometimes it makes me think back of like, "Well, you remember that one time things were going, and then this happened, and tragedy, and all this stuff, and imminent doom, but..."

• 30:56Sam Fragoso?

  I feel like what you're talking about is December of 2003, when, when you are making music, and you go to Atlanta.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:03Sam Fragoso?

  Where you think, "Maybe I'm gonna get signed to a label."

• 31:06Speaker 01

  It doesn't happen.

• 31:07Sam Fragoso?

  Tell me that story.

• 31:08Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, I was, like you said, I was making mixtapes, I was already recording, and a lot of things were happening back then. By the time I was a senior, now my mom and my stepdad had been put in prison, and they were just beginning a seven and a half year bid. So we went from staying in a mansion to losing that house and now the world's upside down.

• 31:26Sam Fragoso?

  It was for like tax evasion?

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, and just like again, I didn't have any clue that this stuff was happening. My mom was just working and keeping things private and then all of a sudden boom, they're in prison. And before that, I was like, I'm gonna be signed, I'm gonna do all this stuff. And I was still had that, but it was like, but also my parents are in prison. I was like, oh, holy shit. So now I'm kind of like against the clock of like, okay, I need to do this or I guess I need to get a job or something. Cause now I have nothing to fall back on. And I remember getting some meetings out in Atlanta with, you know, people and these labels and I had my demo.

• 32:00Sam Fragoso?

  What, what kind of music did they want?

• 32:01Speaker 01

  A lot of the music that they were looking for at the time was very much like Little John. Um, that was huge at the time. So everything needed to be like crunk or like that kind of vibe. And I was this artist producer, little kid that was smiling and I wasn't a gangster. You know, I didn't come from like the trenches or anything and I could write my music and produce it. And I was making this music that was kind of like derivative of like, like a little Kanye and Timbaland. And like I said, Neptunes and those were my heroes and stuff. And it was different. It was different and a lot of these labels, they were just like, we don't get it. I mean, now I look at, but they didn't tell me that straight up, but I could see now that that's what it was. They just didn't know.

• 32:41Sam Fragoso?

  What would they say to you?

• 32:43Speaker 01

  All right, well, we can put you with this producer or can you come back and do something more like this?

• 32:47Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm, a lot of circle backs?

• 32:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, or we'll holler back at you like, it's cool. It's pretty cool. We'll see what we can do.

• 32:52Sam Fragoso?

  You know, I've learned when there's a holler back promise, that it never really comes.

• 32:57Speaker 01

  No, no, it rarely comes. I started really getting real discouraged.

• 33:01Sam Fragoso?

  Did you feel like you couldn't make the music that they wanted you to make? Or, or did you in some ways think some other opportunity will come my way? And I'll get to make what I do want to make.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  I just thought I had missed the boat. I knew that I wasn't gonna try to do something that didn't feel right to me. I wanted to be my own artist. I wanted to do my own thing. I wanted to make this kind of stuff. And I was even down to do that with someone else or learn and do all that. But none of that was coming. And I knew my parents were in prison. And I didn't have really anything else. And I had to, I was 18 now, so I needed to take care of myself and figure things out. I couldn't stay anywhere else. So I was like, I don't have enough time. I don't have, I didn't do it. I didn't, I failed. I didn't make it. So I guess I'll get a job now.

• 33:46Sam Fragoso?

  So at 18, you walk away?

• 33:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I stopped and I was bitter about it, too.

• 33:50Sam Fragoso?

  What does a bitter Anderson Paak sound like?

• 33:53Speaker 01

  I went straight punk. Yeah, I changed everything. I'm pretty dramatic, I guess. And so when that happened and I didn't make it in hip hop or that lane, I was like, well, screw it. I'm not listening to this anymore. I'm listening to Beck. I'm listening to Radiohead. I'm in the fucking Minor Threat. How about that?

• 34:11Sam Fragoso?

  Well, we like Beck here.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, we love it. But that's why I was like, this is different. Like, I could tell there's hip hop influences for sure, but there's no real box to put him in. And he could do anything. And he's like a musician's musician. And his videos are cool. And he's like the ultimate hipster and stuff. I was like, this is cooler to me. And then I was like tapping more into my hometown and hanging with my buddies. You know, I was living with him and I had my gear. And I didn't have any money, but I had like my mixing board and all the stuff that I had since high school. And he was like, hey, you can stay in my garage, but can you record my punk band, too? And I was like, yeah, cool. So I'd be chilling with him. Then I was watching documentaries and I was just introduced to a whole different world. And I was like, yeah, I'm different now.

• 34:54Sam Fragoso?

  But it's amazing, like, at this point, you're 18, 19, even into your early twenties, there's a few years here where you go, all right, the ship has sailed. I thought I had something. It didn't work out. You work at an assisted living home.

• 35:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:06Sam Fragoso?

  You sell vans. You sell books. You sell weed. You work at a weed farm. You're driving around in what you've called a shitty eighty-nine Honda.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Hatchback.

• 35:16Sam Fragoso?

  Was it all about finding some kind of stability around you?

• 35:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I wanted some sort of stability. I felt like I was just, life was just ragdolling me.

• 35:26Sam Fragoso?

  Tired of the ups and downs.

• 35:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I was sick of it. And the thing is, I was doing all these things, but I was still doing music. I couldn't stop doing it.

• 35:34Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Even if I was just recording the punk band, or I would always just, you know, do little things here and there. And I was always playing in church. That was one of the most consistent ways, consistent things in my life. Musically and also financially, I was getting paid to play in church and it got me through so many things.

• 35:49Sam Fragoso?

  On the song, um, Savior's Road off Oxnard, you sing, "I was somewhere between giving up and doing a sentence." How do you emerge from that period?

• 35:59Speaker 01

  Oh, man. I think relationships, bridges, people that believe in you more than believe in yourself.

• 36:04Sam Fragoso?

  Cause you didn't believe in yourself?

• 36:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, um.

• 36:08Sam Fragoso?

  I mean, you felt like you must have had talent.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  I had talent and I think I leaned on that a lot. I didn't have work ethic.

• 36:14Sam Fragoso?

  What do you mean?

• 36:15Speaker 01

  I was so, I felt so low and I felt like I, what I was doing, I've been doing for a while and it got me this far, but maybe I should try it differently. Yeah, I can play drums, I can do all this stuff, I can do a million things, but maybe I just need to sit in a room by myself and work on just me. And start getting the whiteboard out, setting some goals, getting organized.

• 36:34Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, so you're in this apartment in Koreatown, you got a Mac Mini, a whiteboard, six months. Couple of people were helping you out at the time. What was on the whiteboard?

• 36:44Speaker 01

  What was on the whiteboard? It was like, what's the North Star, right? What are you, what are the sounds that you love?

• 36:51Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  Who are some iconic influences?

• 36:53Sam Fragoso?

  Who'd we put on there?

• 36:54Speaker 01

  I had people like Sam Cooke, Stevie Wonder, Otis Redding. Cause there's people that I grew up listening to that I love, right? And that are my musical heroes and everything, but then it was like, okay, is there anybody that kind of can tie back to what I do and the tones? And like, is there something in this genetic makeup that could tie back to me? That I can pull from in ways that hasn't been done and I could do differently? And I think it was like people like Curtis Mayfield, Otis and Sam. These people with a grittier tone and soul people that were had a different way of writing, especially Curtis, that was something I thought was really interesting in how he wrote.

• 37:31Sam Fragoso?

  What did you like about it?

• 37:32Speaker 01

  Soul music with an edge. His stuff was very visual and a lot of times paired with like, I mean, one of his greatest things was paired with the soundtrack with the movie Superfly. And Curtis was also a performer that could play and perform, right? With his guitars. But one thing I love about Curtis, besides his amazing tone is his lyrics and his, how visual his stuff was. And to the point where I remember listening to him when I was little and being scared, like his song like, uh, "If there's hell below, we're all gonna go. Niggas, whitey."

• 38:06Speaker 05

  If there's hell below, we're all gonna go.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  And then with these, it's like, oh my, and my mom would be playing this and I'd be little and I'd be like, oh my God, please don't put that. This is like nightmare music, but I like it somehow. And "I'm your pusher man. I'm the nigga in the alley. Want some dope? Want some weed? Want some coke?" You know, like all that stuff, like I didn't, I didn't hear of soul people talking about that.

• 38:34Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah. And now you mention, he is such a visual storyteller.

• 38:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:38Sam Fragoso?

  Chicago guy, I think.

• 38:38Speaker 01

  Street life and but soulful and just like, then he can make like the makings of you, which is like.

• 38:44Sam Fragoso?

  One of my favorite songs.

• 38:45Speaker 01

  Wow. Same.

• 38:46Sam Fragoso?

  Really one of, one of the most perfect songs.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  Beautiful song that kind of orchestrated lush waltz stuff with the guitar. Those are the people I had, like, I want to do that. And then it was like, what magazines do you want to be on the cover of? What do you want to look like?

• 39:22Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 39:22Speaker 01

  What awards do you want to win?

• 39:23Sam Fragoso?

  What'd you put on there?

• 39:24Speaker 01

  I had Grammys. I wanted to be, I mean, back then it was like, I want to be the top of SoundCloud. I want to play at the. Like, I want a house, I want health insurance, a car. I want, um.

• 39:36Sam Fragoso?

  Running water.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I want to play Fader Fort. I want, yeah, like, you know, the diff- I want to play Coachella.

• 39:41Sam Fragoso?

  These are, these are great.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  Pitchfork, I want to get a good review in Pitchfork. You know, like, stuff like that, like.

• 39:47Sam Fragoso?

  Did they give you good reviews?

• 39:48Speaker 01

  They did, especially, well, like, coming up, like, Malibu and all that stuff, you know, they heralded all that stuff.

• 39:53Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  And, but these were all, like, all, all my, on my chart.

• 39:56Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  I wanted critical acclaim, you know, and I wanted, I wanted to be the people's champ. I wanted to be able to work with anybody, and I wanted the, the musicians to really fuck with it, too.

• 40:06Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  You know, like, I wanted the cats to be like, yeah, you know? I didn't really care about, nothing about charts or anything like that, I wanted.

• 40:15Sam Fragoso?

  Well, the SoundCloud charts.

• 40:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. I wanted to go, you know, crazy SoundCloud nervous, I wanted to, our music be played in Low End Theory, and I wanted to meet, you know, work with these kind of people and, um, be pushing the envelope.

• 40:27Sam Fragoso?

  What was the first song you made, whether it was under Breezy Lovejoy or Anderson Paak?

• 40:32Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:32Sam Fragoso?

  That we can maybe hear from those early mixtapes that you like, that you felt like, okay, I, I think I'm on to something?

• 40:39Speaker 01

  The early mixtapes? I mean, early on, I did, you talk about cover art.

• 40:43Sam Fragoso?

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  I think that was one of the first things I did under the Monica Anderson Paak, I'm pretty sure. And it was a play on, you know, taking these songs that were done by white musicians and, and doing them in my style, right?

• 40:56Sam Fragoso?

  Cause, like, re-appropriating them?

• 40:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, re-appropriating them, kinda like how they did with the rock records back in the 50s, right?

• 41:00Sam Fragoso?

  What do you mean?

• 41:01Speaker 01

  With, with black, yeah, exactly, okay. But I did, I did.

• 41:06Sam Fragoso?

  I really thought.

• 41:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm gonna, I'm down to teach.

• 41:11Sam Fragoso?

  Am I your son?

• 41:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, you're looking like him.

• 41:14Sam Fragoso?

  I am?

• 41:14Speaker 01

  A little bit with the hair, like, he did have a little.

• 41:16Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, man, I'm thirty-one, I feel youthful.

• 41:19Speaker 01

  I love you.

• 41:20Sam Fragoso?

  You're my kid. We're like the same age, man.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  But anyway, sport, um, I did.

• 41:26Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, can we get Squirt's song on, though? Can we put that thing on? Cover art's gonna be tough, because they had a clearance of a cover of those songs, it's gonna be hard for me.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 41:35Sam Fragoso?

  So can we think about something that you own the rights to, that I can play?

• 41:38Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, well, probably the song Drugs. It was probably like two songs that kinda really were like, starting to move in the SoundCloud streets. And it was, one of them was Drugs, and another one was a completely opposite texture, which was Suede.

• 41:49Sam Fragoso?

  Will you let us play some Suede?

• 41:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, play Suede.

• 41:51Sam Fragoso?

  Okay. This is Suede by No Worries.

• 42:20Sam Fragoso?

  I read that Dr. Dre had the same response to that song the first time he heard it that I had, which was to play it three more times.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:29Sam Fragoso?

  Tell me the day that you walk into his office with that track.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  Man, so I make my way into the studio and I'm like, this is Dr. Dre's studio. Like, this is insane. And I meet the two writers, King Mez and JT, who are all over the Compton album too. And they were like, yo, we love your song Suede. We want you to help write some stuff for this Dre album.

• 42:47Sam Fragoso?

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:48Speaker 01

  And I'm like, wow, sick, let's do it. I'm ready to work. And they're like, hold on, let's play the song for Dre first. And I'm like, what? He hasn't heard it? So I was super nervous.

• 42:57Sam Fragoso?

  He hasn't heard one of the most popular songs on SoundCloud?

• 43:00Speaker 01

  He ain't seen the SoundCloud number shit?

• 43:02Sam Fragoso?

  They didn't back him over?

• 43:04Speaker 01

  But I was more nervous like that he wouldn't like it and then I got kicked out.

• 43:07Sam Fragoso?

  Really?

• 43:07Speaker 01

  After making it there, I'm like, maybe let's just make something new.

• 43:10Sam Fragoso?

  Right.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  But no, they were like, no, he's got to hear this.

• 43:12Sam Fragoso?

  You wanted to make an insurance song?

• 43:13Speaker 01

  Exactly, yeah. So he came in there and they started playing it and he cranked it. After it was done, I looked up and he was like, play it again. And he just ran it back and he was like, let's work. And I remember thinking like, I'm on.

• 43:28Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  I did it. This is it. And I kept going back, like every day. He just kept inviting me to work on stuff and.

• 43:35Sam Fragoso?

  Did you make a song that night?

• 43:36Speaker 01

  We did. We made All in Days work that night.

• 43:39Sam Fragoso?

  Oh.

• 43:39Speaker 01

  Yep. And he was there, everybody was there and they played that beat. And I remember just being blown away by the beat.

• 43:44Sam Fragoso?

  Were you nervous?

• 43:45Speaker 01

  I was excited. I was nervous. I was confident.

• 43:49Sam Fragoso?

  So at that point, you had some confidence?

• 43:50Speaker 01

  At that point, I did. You know why? Because I didn't have any expectations to even meet Dre before that. I had put all of that out of my head. All I think I cared about was doing my own thing. I didn't have any goals of being like a big producer or a writer for other people. I was like, I got my own thing. I got my own lane. I'm not worried about mainstream stuff. I'm doing this for the streets. I know at this point that no one sounds like me. I got my own style.

• 44:14Sam Fragoso?

  So you walked into his office and you said, I'm doing this for the streets?

• 44:17Speaker 01

  No, I didn't say any of that. I came in humbly. But when he told me, get on the mic, I didn't hesitate. I knew that, that's why timing is important because any other time, five years before, I probably would have been like, uh, can I go to the room, maybe try to write something, or I would have froze.

• 44:32Sam Fragoso?

  Right.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  I was ready.

• 44:34Sam Fragoso?

  You were ready.

• 44:34Speaker 01

  I didn't need any pen or pad. I was just, they threw on a beat and I just started going off, whatever was, came out of me, closed my eyes and I just went for it.

• 44:41Sam Fragoso?

  Why do you think he liked you so much?

• 44:43Speaker 01

  I think he saw that I was unique and I, I had a freedom to me.

• 44:47Sam Fragoso?

  Is this an Aquarius thing?

• 44:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, and he's an Aquarius too. And I think he, that, he was at a point in his career where he was having fun and he didn't have to do things in the box. And I don't think he saw an artist like me yet at that time that could, he was learning more about me every visit. Then he found out, oh, he plays drums. Oh, he's a musician. Oh, he can do this. He can sing and he can, he was having a lot of fun with me and, and the tools that I had and the way I wrote. And like he said, the pain in your voice. He, he really loved that.

• 45:16Sam Fragoso?

  Is that what he would say?

• 45:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, he got the pain in your voice. But that would be after like, you know, a hundred takes. So literally in pain, some of those sessions.

• 45:24Sam Fragoso?

  You're like, sir, it's actually not about my childhood.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  It hurts.

• 45:27Sam Fragoso?

  It's because you've made me do this 200 times. The childhood pain too, but this is really on you.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  Pain is love.

• 45:36Sam Fragoso?

  It sounds like a movie when you describe it like this.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:39Sam Fragoso?

  The roller coaster of it all.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. It's different than K-Pops, my movie that's coming out February 27th, but uh.

• 45:45Sam Fragoso?

  When, when do you think after those sessions, did your life change radically? Cause we, we started this episode talking about the 10 year anniversary of Malibu, which came out 2016. Is, is that the moment where you basically get on this roller coaster ride and don't get off until the pandemic?

• 46:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, you know, the, the beginning of the roller coaster like this. It was a lot of,

• 46:05Sam Fragoso?

  Hate that.

• 46:05Speaker 01

  It was that first.

• 46:06Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, the slow incline.

• 46:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, the slow incline because what I didn't think would happen was that Dre would put his album out first and it would be a surprise album. I'd be all over it.

• 46:14Sam Fragoso?

  Compton?

• 46:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, you know, I had a couple of songs that were bubbling a little bit and then Dre put out his stuff and he put it out with the movie and he was having just a huge moment. And everyone was looking at me like, who's this kid all over the album? And I had been doing stuff in LA 10 years plus before that. So I had people, you know, that knew about me and people that were just brand new. But all that was coming together and now I had eyes on me, which was like, that's, this is what I've been waiting for, you know, cause I had like a bunch of ammo and I had Malibu ready. Or not ready, I had it, I had been working on it. But now I was like, ooh, let me add a few tracks to this album. Now I got, I got a little leverage. I got people, now I can hit up Ninth Wonder. I can hit up Mad Lib. I can hit up High Tech. Cause these are the people that were like,

• 46:57Sam Fragoso?

  This is the Mount Rushmore of beat making.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying? And they were like, you killed it. Yeah, we want to work on it. And now I can get like, I, everybody was, I was working with Game, Schoolboy Q, you know, Kendrick, and it's about being able to execute when the time is right.

• 47:12Sam Fragoso?

  I think the first time I found your work was on the Tiny Desk concert series.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  All that stuff came.

• 47:18Sam Fragoso?

  I heard you guys didn't even really want to do it that much.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was dreading that.

• 47:22Sam Fragoso?

  You, why were you dreading it?

• 47:23Speaker 01

  I was the one that told my team to book it because I saw T-Pain on there. And I was like, this is great. It was before they were that big.

• 47:30Sam Fragoso?

  I remember that. That one's amazing.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  It was amazing. So I was like, I felt like no one really knew how good that I could play and that we were a band and stuff. And so I told my team, let's do it. But we were on the road and then I'm getting woken up and like 10 a.m. hungover and they're like, we're doing that show you want to do. I'm like, what show? We ain't doing that. And they're, who booked this? Who booked it? I'm like, man, ah, so they drug us out and did it.

• 47:54Sam Fragoso?

  And it's an amazing performance.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 47:56Sam Fragoso?

  Um, I feel like on that record Malibu, since it's the anniversary and all that, the season slash Carry Me feels like the song that I hold on to the most, but that's just my personal preference. What's the one that, that means the most to you now? And I don't know, speaks to the conversation we've been having.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's definitely one of them.

• 48:13Sam Fragoso?

  Is that the one?

• 48:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, The Bird.

• 48:15Sam Fragoso?

  The Bird's amazing.

• 48:16Speaker 01

  Is another one. You know, those ones where I'm kind of getting to hear my story. Yeah, those are, those are big ones for it. The Dreamer, another one.

• 48:24Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, this is from the record Malibu. The song, The Seasons Carry Me.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  Season Carry Me, yeah.

• 48:29Sam Fragoso?

  Uh, produced by Ninth Wonder?

• 48:31Speaker 01

  Produced by Ninth Wonder and also he was going by Low Def at the time. Now he's Callum Connor with Free Nationals. It's like a two-part.

• 48:37Sam Fragoso?

  Everyone, everyone on their A-game.

• 48:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, thanks.

• 48:39Sam Fragoso?

  All right, let's take a listen.

• 48:57Sam Fragoso?

  When you hear that, where does that take you back to?

• 49:00Speaker 01

  Man, just like, it takes me back to like, recording these songs. Like, that part of the beat is produced by Calvin Connor. And I used to take the bus to the NoHo station. And he used to pick me up and we used to record in his little studio. And it just brings me back to being in those little, little ass rooms and trying different things out. And, you know, having that song and then make, you know, later on, it was a choice to like, make it a two-part and then being on the road and stopping and going to see Knife Wonder and then going to his studio and seeing like, his whole team of producers that were under his wing and then getting a beat from him, like, one of the beat gods. And then doing that track.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  And then the moment where we're like, wait, these could be two together. And like, oh crap. And then it just brings me back to like, then playing it at festivals where we play it like, 30 BPM faster and like, bringing out the rock elements of it. And then it brings back to, you know, when I had my first pair of Jordans and I didn't want to get them dirty and I asked my mom, can she carry me to the car?

• 50:03Sam Fragoso?

  Listening to that now, I was thinking about how you were inspired by Curtis Mayfield.

• 50:06Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:07Sam Fragoso?

  Like, the vividness of the storytelling.

• 50:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:09Sam Fragoso?

  Is on full display in that one.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:12Sam Fragoso?

  Um, when we come back, we're gonna take a quick break. We'll talk about the records you make after the door opens up from Malibu.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 50:20Sam Fragoso?

  That's coming up next with the Anderson Paak.

• 50:39Sam Fragoso?

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• 51:19Sam Fragoso?

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• 52:04Sam Fragoso?

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• 52:47Sam Fragoso?

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• 53:00Sam Fragoso?

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• 53:51Sam Fragoso?

  Coming back. How we doing, Anderson?

• 53:52Speaker 01

  I'm doing great. How are you doing?

• 53:54Sam Fragoso?

  I feel like we've been on a roll.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:56Sam Fragoso?

  We've covered a lot of ground.

• 53:57Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Higher ground.

• 53:59Sam Fragoso?

  And that's the show. That's really it.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  Thanks for tuning in.

• 54:04Sam Fragoso?

  You know, after Malibu, you make all these records and it's impossible, you know, you have places to be. We can't talk for five hours. I can't go through all of them, song by song or album by album. But I like this quote you have, which is that in many ways, every record of yours is a Polaroid of where you're at in that moment that you made it. So where were you on Oxnard?

• 54:25Speaker 01

  Oxnard? Oh, man. I had money. I was like, yo, this is crazy, man. I mean, so many things were happening, but it was coming off of the whirlwind of Malibu and we had just been on the road. And now I was, I was able to take care of my family. I had been all over the world. And I was like, okay, I need to make a follow-up now. I guess I never thought Malibu would do the things it did. And I did that on a Mac Mini. And I did that just with me on Ableton. And we had nothing. And now I had roles at my fingertips. And big studios and I had an I eight beamer that where the doors came up like this butterfly doors.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  And Dre was like, I want to make an album with you now. And I could get any feature, you know, really. And I wanted to do a big ambitious album, you know, and probably the direct reactions of what I had just did. And that's usually the trajectory of where a lot of artists go. And also I was dealing with things, you know, that after reaching a certain amount of success and how people treat you and different things and stuff, but I was still having the time of my life.

• 55:34Sam Fragoso?

  What do you mean by that?

• 55:36Speaker 01

  I remember at the photo shoot for Oxnard, Mac Miller passed. I got the news like at the photo shoot and I was just like, what the hell? We were just hanging and just partying and all this stuff. And so there was a lot of stuff going on and I remember like friends, closer friends that, you know, that, that maybe they started acting different because they saw me in different places and I had different things and I could do different things. And it made me feel weird. So then it could be a little depressing when you feel like you can't do the things you used to do. Or people are looking at you different or you start overthinking. Not to say that that was like everything that was going on, but that was a part of it. But I remember too that Dre was adamant that I needed to stop touring for a second because I was touring nonstop and I needed to just sit in the studio.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  And he wanted to work with me, he wanted to get a chance to really work on my stuff. And that was different for me because I had a collection of songs that I felt like, okay, this could be cool. I really wanted to do like a double album like this. I wanted to do everything just big. This was supposed to be, I was telling everybody, this is like same guy, new car. That's this album.

• 56:37Sam Fragoso?

  I heard you say that. Yeah, same man, new car.

• 56:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:41Sam Fragoso?

  This is the good times and the bad times, life after Malibu. You have two kids now and a wife to support. You're trying to keep the same principles you had when you just had a couch.

• 56:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, which is like stuff, you know? So I had these concepts where like tents where it's like, all right, I need my windows tinted. People can't see me, privacy. And then I had like trippy where it's like. Oh, man, trying to like be with someone that's like trying to grab a hold of smoke. And that was like me, like always being aloof and gone and everything. Um, I wanted to do this big intro, this like blaxploitation type of intro. Or that's like how it opens.

• 57:15Sam Fragoso?

  Super fun.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, you know, tapping into that. And I wanted to be really visual and just big. I didn't want to do another Malibu.

• 57:23Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  You know, to this day, man, that's, that's really one of my favorites because when I look back on it, I got to really work with Dre and, and the people that he wanted me to work with and do things. Let him guide me and, and with the Sonics and even with the song selection. And I got to do songs with like Kendrick and J. Cole and Q-Tip. And like, it's just like the list goes on and on with that album. It was pretty ambitious, but initially it was supposed, Ox and mature were supposed to be together because I felt like it needed a balance. One was like the moon and one was the sun.

• 57:54Sam Fragoso?

  I want to ask like these big questions about this, this time in your life and, and the records that whole. Like when it comes to Snoop Dogg and the wisdom he gave to you.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  I, when I first worked with Snoop Dogg in the studio, I understood immediately why he was so successful.

• 58:08Sam Fragoso?

  Why is that?

• 58:08Speaker 01

  His ability to retain and to perform and to be so on top of his brand. And to be open and humble, to be able to just let someone else guide him as well. Talking about one of my biggest heroes. And I had a song that I felt like could work with him. And he was like, nephew, you do it, you write it. You tell me how you want me to do it. I'm coming in, I got a little time, I'mma lay it, let's do it. And it was just mind blowing. And yeah, when he got on the mic, he said, I think it was something that he learned from Bootsy Collins is that you need to have something about yourself in this industry if you're going to make it. If you're going to have some longevity. And even if it's the subtle things, there's, there's something about every artist

• 58:50Speaker 01

  that they have when they're on that mic or when you see them, there's a presence.

• 58:54Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 58:54Speaker 01

  And that's the 24 seven thing. Some people can, you know, maybe turn it off or they, they're some with their family and all that stuff. But when they're at work, they, they got something about themselves and you know Snoop's voice when you're, when he's on there.

• 59:06Sam Fragoso?

  Did you feel like you had to figure that out for yourself?

• 59:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just felt like I needed to stay conscious of that, you know? And, and know that when I'm on that mic, it's, it's real deal. And you never know what song could do it for you. And you should always give it your all and make sure you got something, make sure you got some presence on that. And they know like, oh, wow, even if it's a feature, like you go into it and it's like, well, it might've been a feature, but this is, this is my song now.

• 59:30Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 59:31Speaker 01

  And that was like, that's what I was, where I was at before when I first started having that dog in me. And that's what got me to Dre. It's cause like, everything I touched, I wanted to fucking kill. I wasn't, it was not a game to me. And every opportunity I had, I was like, hell yeah, I'm, I'm working with cater, I'm working with knowledge, I'm doing, I want to body this, you know, and it's gonna be something about me. They're gonna know.

• 59:51Sam Fragoso?

  So what do you think it is about you?

• 59:53Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 59:55Speaker 01

  Not too sure, actually.

• 59:58Speaker 01

  I don't know. I think, you know, based off what I've collected, I think it's the freedom. I think it's the joy.

• 1:00:04Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:05Speaker 01

  I think it's the humor. I think it's the soulfulness. I think it's the pain, the storytelling, the taste, the choices. I think it's the variety.

• 1:00:14Sam Fragoso?

  Mm hmm. I, I have some questions I've always wanted to ask you, just practical process ones. Like when you're on tour, how do you do it? Like, what are the routines you do? Is what do you, what, how does one manage that? Are you doing like IV drip? Like what's going on here?

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I have a balance. I party hard and I work hard. And I am a, you know, I'm an old man at heart and I, I started taking vitamin, I have a whole little supplement thing, vitamins that I've been doing for years.

• 1:00:42Sam Fragoso?

  I was sad you didn't bring any today.

• 1:00:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I had to, I took them, you know, but it's like, I, I have a regiment, you know, and it's not crazy. Like, I'm not doing, working out like crazy, but I, I, I try to eat fairly well. There's certain things I don't eat. And there's certain disciplines that I have, you know, with my vitamins. And yeah, I do the IV thing. And I, I try to get sleep, especially as I get older. Tour is good for me because it's a routine.

• 1:01:07Sam Fragoso?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  And so you have to stay healthy. And I learned that I put a lot of energy on stage. So I don't really have the luxury of like, partying like crazy and then being able to perform to the top notch. And it, performing at the best of my ability is, is a priority to me. So I try to stay healthy and I try to do these things I've been doing forever.

• 1:01:25Sam Fragoso?

  Before the show, do you have any rituals? Like a prayer, incantation, superstitions? What, like a disco nap? What are you doing?

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  Nah, I try not to eat really too much before the show. I, I don't like the feeling of having a full belly on stage.

• 1:01:39Sam Fragoso?

  I don't do it either.

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:40Sam Fragoso?

  Before these, never.

• 1:01:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:41Sam Fragoso?

  The smallest amount. I'm, I'm dying right now.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. I like to be a vessel.

• 1:01:46Sam Fragoso?

  I'm a vessel for Anderson Paak.

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  The vibes can flow free.

• 1:01:48Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, that's all I'm trying to do.

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do a set of pushups. I do a prison workout.

• 1:01:53Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, a little prison workout.

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, all upper body.

• 1:01:55Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  Get the blood going.

• 1:01:56Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, just everything that people in the audience can see.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I carry this JBL with me everywhere I go for years. I play, you know, I have this playlist that I've been adding to for 10 years plus and I listen to that throughout the day.

• 1:02:08Sam Fragoso?

  Is James Brown part of this?

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, James Brown is not even part of it, but on my rider, a framed picture of James Brown is required in every green room.

• 1:02:15Sam Fragoso?

  Is it a different photo of James Brown?

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  I tell people to be creative.

• 1:02:19Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 1:02:19Speaker 01

  I let them choose. And so I've seen some crazy pictures that I've never seen before. Some I've seen plenty of times.

• 1:02:25Sam Fragoso?

  Why is that in the rider?

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  As an artist, I look up to him in his artistry. What he did, he didn't take any shit. He came from nothing. He was self-managed. He was a person who was a bandleader. He could play. And also, as myself as an artist and my other fellow artists, we took the gamble on ourselves. We are the ones that bet on ourselves.

• 1:02:45Sam Fragoso?

  I like that.

• 1:02:46Speaker 01

  Some of us, we crapped out and they stopped trying. Some of us, we didn't know how to stop and we kept going. And then it worked out for us. And because it worked out for us, it's the beauty that we get to do stuff like that.

• 1:02:58Sam Fragoso?

  Is that you?

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  We earned it. Yeah, I want framed picture. I want this kind of water. I want these things because I took the chance on myself and I could have been doing anything else. I'm doing this and now I get to do what I love. So.

• 1:03:10Sam Fragoso?

  I like that. People used to listen to albums front to back. And I know with each of your records, you put a lot of time into the sequencing of them.

• 1:03:18Speaker 01

  Just for someone to hit shuffle and be like.

• 1:03:20Sam Fragoso?

  I mean, I think at this point, it's like me and seven other dudes.

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're fighting the good fight.

• 1:03:25Sam Fragoso?

  Still have their SoundCloud plus. It's not a lot left. I'm sorry that the audience is me. I wish it was someone more attractive. I'm sorry.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  It's all good.

• 1:03:34Sam Fragoso?

  I know it wasn't intended.

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  Do it for us.

• 1:03:36Sam Fragoso?

  Do you have a pitch for people to listen to records in full? But what, give me the pitch. How do we get a new generation to buy into the thing that you fell in love with?

• 1:03:44Speaker 01

  I mean, would you watch a movie in the middle that you've never seen? Like, would you go to Marty Supreme and be like, yeah, yeah, let's just start in the middle? And then I'll go back and actually put the movie on shuffle. The fuck?

• 1:03:55Sam Fragoso?

  That actually sounds kinda good.

• 1:03:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, maybe.

• 1:03:57Sam Fragoso?

  Does it disappoint you? Does it mean, does that change how you make music or wanna make music?

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

  Nah, I do how I do. You know, I, I'm a person, when I'm making my album, I'm very much thinking about the, how this whole album's gonna be. So I'm very much like, oh, I'm looking for an intro, like, right now, and I know the second song is gonna be like this, it needs to tie like that, and then, okay, now we're, we're this way, I wanna take them on a journey, I wanna take them on a ride into my world, Andyland, you know? And that's, that's how, I've never been like, oh, I got this single right here, like, I'm doing this, and I've, I've learned to do that, and I love that, because that's awesome too, and I learned a lot with Bruno, like, working on songs for years, until they're right. I think more of my style is creating this body of work from the top to the bottom, that tells a story, just like, that's how I did Malibu, that's how I do everything.

• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  And, you know, now, like, making new stuff, I'm trying to do different textures and take them a different place, but I'm still thinking about how to do it like that, as a body of work, and my pitch is, that's it, I think that, um, there's still people that enjoy bodies of work, and it's not for everybody, but I construct it to where it's like, I don't want any misses on my album, and there's no filler, so if you do hit shuffle, it's gonna be, it's gonna be great, so do whatever you want, as long as you're listening, I'm, uh, I'm grateful.

• 1:05:14Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah. Speaking of bodies of work, Ventura and, uh, Wailod.

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:05:19Sam Fragoso?

  I'm trying to think of those two records, cause the Polaroid of it all.

• 1:05:23Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:05:24Sam Fragoso?

  What do you think those two are, if we're thinking in Polaroid terms?

• 1:05:27Speaker 01

  Where I was at with Ventura was, I was, you know, I had my youngest kid, and I remember being home, and things at the home weren't best, and I knew I needed to, me and my ex had, I had worked so hard on my career, that when the smoke settled, she was way over there and I was way over here, and it was like, damn. We were always a family and we but we grew up in our twenties together and we raised a family together and we've been through all this stuff. We were on couches and now we were just like, kind of felt like roommates and

• 1:05:59Sam Fragoso?

  Were you surprised by that?

• 1:06:01Speaker 01

  I was just, at first, but then I realized like, oh, it's nothing to really be surprised about. Like, think about what you've been doing and, and plants need water to grow. They need sunlight. They need attention. And so you were giving a lot of these other things attention, but this stuff is, needs attention too. And also, life is continuing to move. It doesn't wait. So now my kids are getting older and I was like, damn, I am a father and, and a husband, I guess, but do I have a bond? You know, like, I put so much energy into trying to make this life for them, but it was like, I just needed to just sit down for a little bit and spend actual time and be present.

• 1:06:37Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm. It sounds like a lot.

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  It was. It was a lot. And it was, um, it, it made me feel like, ah, I needed, I needed to get back to home, you know? And the, the first song of Ventura is Come Home. And I needed to really sit down and, you know, make something beautiful for the fam. Songs like Come Home, songs like Make It Better. I got to do a really nice song with Nate Dogg on that album that people

• 1:07:01Sam Fragoso?

  That's the last one, right?

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. That really, I was really proud of. A shout out to Fred Rec, but he had that Nate Dogg song and he was like, you should work with this and figure out, you know, how to do it. And I just wanted to put a beautiful, something really beautiful together that was like a smile.

• 1:07:16Sam Fragoso?

  And that, that song, Make It Better, Smokey Robinson's on that one, right?

• 1:07:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:20Sam Fragoso?

  How does that come to be? Cause and I heard that you had written some stuff.

• 1:07:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:24Sam Fragoso?

  And then Smokey came in and had some, some notes for you.

• 1:07:27Speaker 01

  Yep. Yeah. We written something and I was like, this could be cool for Smokey. And with something I could do with Smokey.

• 1:07:33Sam Fragoso?

  It's amazing that that's where you're at in your life.

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:35Sam Fragoso?

  It's like you're on a basketball team. It's like, I think this could be good for Jordan.

• 1:07:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:38Sam Fragoso?

  I think we can get him. Did we can pull him in here?

• 1:07:40Speaker 01

  Jordan could be cool.

• 1:07:41Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, that could be good.

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  Tool for this part.

• 1:07:43Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, that you could exploit.

• 1:07:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. But yeah, I was, I don't know where it came from, but yeah, it kinda had that vibe. And but we had a song and right away he came in and he listened to it and he said, "You gotta say something that sounds good to the lady's ear."

• 1:07:58Sam Fragoso?

  Is that how he sounds?

• 1:07:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. You gotta make love to them with your words. And right now, you're just talking a bunch of mumbo jumbo. It's no story. Nobody wants to hear that, Andy. Is that what they call you? You know, you got some cute melodies, but why don't you do me a favor? You burn me a disc, you do one with the music and one with the lyrics. And I come back and I say, "If I can fix this for you, because I think I can fix it." And I was like, "You got it, sir." And he came back and-

• 1:08:23Sam Fragoso?

  You said, "You got it, Mr. Smokey."

• 1:08:24Speaker 01

  You got it, Mr. Robinson, Smoke Dog, Sir Smoke Dog.

• 1:08:29Sam Fragoso?

  We found it.

• 1:08:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. He came back and he had the song written out. And yeah, you know, he was like, "This is could be about, you know, trying to make it, when you've been in a relationship so long and it gets stale and you wanna make it better, you wanna do things to make it exciting again." And that's where I was too in my life and it just hit home. And I recorded it. He was there when I recorded the vocals. And I thought it was gonna be like, do a, he'll do a verse and stuff like that. He goes, "Nah, nah, I'm good. This is all you." And I was like, "Come on, Smoke, at least get on the backgrounds or something." And he did jump on the backgrounds a little bit.

• 1:09:02Sam Fragoso?

  I also was surprised.

• 1:09:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:03Sam Fragoso?

  When I saw him featured in the Spotify, I was like, "Oh, wow." And then it's like-

• 1:09:07Speaker 01

  Might have been a bit egregious on my part to put him-

• 1:09:09Sam Fragoso?

  No, I mean, he's there.

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  He is there.

• 1:09:11Sam Fragoso?

  I could have used more Smokey.

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:13Sam Fragoso?

  But didn't he write the, "And it's easier to walk away"

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:18Sam Fragoso?

  "than to look what would make you stay."

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:20Sam Fragoso?

  That's a tough line.

• 1:09:21Speaker 01

  It is, man.

• 1:09:22Sam Fragoso?

  I was re-listened to that song and we can play a little bit of it here if you're open to that.

• 1:09:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:27Sam Fragoso?

  This is from "Make It Better," off the record Ventura.

• 1:10:11Sam Fragoso?

  I was driving to the studio this morning and I was playing that song. And obviously, as you know, I've, we've done a lot of prep here. I have to imagine that's a hard song for you and what happened between then and last.

• 1:10:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:10:25Sam Fragoso?

  Shit, six, seven years.

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah, in some ways, man, but it's, it's still optimistic, you know? As long as you're breathing, life is long. I know people say life is short, but.

• 1:10:35Sam Fragoso?

  You say the opposite.

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, life is long and as long as you're still around, you can turn it around. And I feel family is forever and there are people in my life that we're always bonded. And the mother of my child is forever. I still love her and we have beautiful family and we're learning how to co-parent and we're in a different chapter, but I still think it's beautiful and I think it's, I wouldn't change anything. And to do that song, to have that song in the repertoire and to sing it and to, I see couples in the audience.

• 1:11:09Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:09Speaker 01

  Singing it back and, you know, sometimes it's, it's for that, you know? It's tough. It is tough, man, but it, uh, it ain't over. It ain't over. And it's like, um, this is forever still and I, I still love her and I still, I still consider her and everything that we built is one of my greatest achievements and it's family.

• 1:11:28Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:30Sam Fragoso?

  It's amazing what that song could do for so many people.

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:34Sam Fragoso?

  Cause I, I've been in a concert where you play it.

• 1:11:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:37Sam Fragoso?

  And it's crazy because what you're seeing is a bunch of couples go, we could break up.

• 1:11:43Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:11:43Sam Fragoso?

  This marriage could dissolve.

• 1:11:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:46Sam Fragoso?

  And the song is like some attempt and some reminder that, to get back to the beginning.

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:50Sam Fragoso?

  And I, I remember, I was single at the time and even I was like, god damn.

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:56Sam Fragoso?

  It's, it's like such a gift.

• 1:11:58Speaker 01

  It is. Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's a deep one, man.

• 1:12:00Sam Fragoso?

  How you doing?

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  I'm doing good. Doing good, yeah.

• 1:12:04Sam Fragoso?

  Better?

• 1:12:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm doing good, doing better. It's like, it's really cool, like, to see like how resilient and like my kids and like my family, how supportive and I couldn't have did it without them. I don't think I could have. And like the support I have from my family and my kid's mom and where we're at. Yeah, I just love that we're able to, you know, be in this other new chapter, but still be connected and learning how to be. And it was, it was really rough at the beginning. I didn't know what the hell was gonna happen and it was depressing and everything and didn't seem like there was any light. And then, you know, each day gets better. And then we just had Christmas and holidays and did it at my house. And I'm seeing like my son is like killing on guitar now.

• 1:12:47Speaker 01

  And we're all like singing together as a family and he's like playing the guitar. And it's like all these things that I've always wanted are happening. You know, being able to show him that you can, even though sometimes marriage doesn't work out, but family is forever and you can still, you can still have love for each other. You can still be, you know, the best of friends and still be together in ways.

• 1:13:07Sam Fragoso?

  I love that. I wish that for you.

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 1:13:09Sam Fragoso?

  And, you know, bringing us back to the new movie.

• 1:13:12Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:13:12Sam Fragoso?

  Like, we're making jokes at the top about, um, how like, you know, your kid just wanted to make YouTube.

• 1:13:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:18Sam Fragoso?

  And you're like, I know, but your dad is Anderson Paak.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  You just can't be a kid.

• 1:13:24Sam Fragoso?

  You just can't be a kid. You're gonna have to be a kid in public, in full view, on IMAX.

• 1:13:29Speaker 01

  Exactly, yeah.

• 1:13:30Sam Fragoso?

  You're gonna have to cover his therapy, too.

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:34Sam Fragoso?

  Just so you know.

• 1:13:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it should come. Really did a number on him.

• 1:13:37Sam Fragoso?

  I'm sure you're doing a great job. I'm sure you two are doing great.

• 1:13:40Speaker 01

  Listen, son.

• 1:13:41Sam Fragoso?

  He just wanted to do some twitching. You couldn't let it be.

• 1:13:48Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, I'm sorry.

• 1:13:49Speaker 01

  No, it's all right.

• 1:13:50Sam Fragoso?

  But the movie is out in theaters, right?

• 1:13:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, every AMC theater. Check it out, K-Pops.

• 1:13:55Sam Fragoso?

  What's the date?

• 1:13:55Speaker 01

  Uh, February 27th, starring me and my actual son.

• 1:13:59Sam Fragoso?

  Um, before we go, in thinking about the movie, but whatever comes next. You know, you talked about how at age six, when you saw your mother, um, on the front lawn, being attacked. And from that point forward, you started creating these worlds for yourself, these worlds to, to get away from that.

• 1:14:17Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:14:17Sam Fragoso?

  What are the worlds do you wanna create now for yourself? Like, what does that look like for you moving forward?

• 1:14:25Speaker 01

  I mean, I can see that I'm still doing it. I love creating my own universe from everything from DJ Pee Wee now, where I'm throwing on a wig and DJing vinyl. Now I'm be opening for Bruno's World Tour and I've done some huge fucking shows just doing that. And places I've never done, just from, starting from nothing in the DJ world and just doing stuff because I was having fun. And I love the world that I was in and being a part of that to now doing the film space where I'm able to pull from a well of experiences. And whether it be traumatic or anything, these unique stories that I'm pulling from are based off, you know, my life. And being able to create that universe in the filmscape and directing and acting and writing. And I know I'm working on a book.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't, I don't know. It's, it's almost there, but yeah, there'll be a book soon and it deals with, you know, a fantasy and stuff like that.

• 1:15:20Sam Fragoso?

  That sounds great.

• 1:15:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be fun. And yeah, and it's just pouring into the platform with, with my, my record label and helping any way I can with new artists and breaking new artists. I got Domi and JD Beck, who are a phenomenal duo that, you know, Grammy nominated their first album and they're working on their second one. And Still Beans was incredible, one man band. I love working with new artists and trying to share any kind of jewels I have because I've been through it and helping them to where they, they can, you know, find their own way. The sky's the limit, man. I'm, I'm eager to, to learn more and to see what's, what's happening. I got a lot of stuff that's in, in the queue.

• 1:15:56Sam Fragoso?

  Well, speaking of that, Dewey Saunders, the man who did the cover art of Malibu. He tweeted back in September of last year, officially working on artwork for Anderson Paak again. What are we thinking?

• 1:16:07Speaker 01

  We did the 10 year anniversary of Malibu.

• 1:16:09Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 1:16:10Speaker 01

  And we dropped some incredible like vinyl pieces, limited vinyl pieces where it's like, there's sand in the vinyl and water. And vinyl spins is like me surfing. They got a, you open it up, it's like a pop up.

• 1:16:22Sam Fragoso?

  Because the internet's hoping this means a, a new album. Is that, is that, is that on the way?

• 1:16:26Speaker 01

  Well, we dropped, I don't know if this is announced yet, but we have a live album too. We did with the Malibu Live Tour and we, everyone was saying, you need a live album. So we, we did a live album, I think it's live from Atlanta of the whole Malibu album. And then, yeah, I'm working on a new project that I'm really excited about.

• 1:16:41Sam Fragoso?

  Newport?

• 1:16:43Speaker 01

  Perhaps we we might have to retire the beaches.

• 1:16:44Sam Fragoso?

  Are we done with beaches?

• 1:16:46Speaker 01

  I don't know. We'll see. We'll see what happens. But I'm working on music.

• 1:16:49Sam Fragoso?

  Are beaches done? Maybe it's been enough. I think you have one more beach in you.

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  If I can't think of a better name, it might be Newport. You call it.

• 1:16:58Sam Fragoso?

  You can be. I got two last questions for us.

• 1:17:00Speaker 01

  County Line.

• 1:17:01Sam Fragoso?

  Is that what it's called?

• 1:17:02Speaker 01

  Perhaps.

• 1:17:03Sam Fragoso?

  We would love an exclusive here.

• 1:17:05Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:17:05Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, we're gonna go.

• 1:17:06Speaker 01

  That's got a ring to it.

• 1:17:07Sam Fragoso?

  I kind of like County Line.

• 1:17:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:17:08Sam Fragoso?

  Not bad. That could be anywhere.

• 1:17:10Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:17:10Sam Fragoso?

  Any county, any line, what's he crossing?

• 1:17:13Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:17:14Sam Fragoso?

  We don't know.

• 1:17:17Sam Fragoso?

  I'm gonna open for you doing spoken word like that.

• 1:17:22Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, he used to do really well. He was performing residency with Bruno Mars. Now, podcaster Sam Prigoso's opening up for him. He just recites random facts about his life before the show.

• 1:17:32Speaker 01

  Been on for 30 minutes straight.

• 1:17:33Sam Fragoso?

  Wow. You said recently, quote, 30 years from now, I hopefully have one or two songs that the young kids are still singing, where they listen and go, God, they don't make them like this anymore. Since we've been looking backwards and forwards and the whole catalog and all that, to close us out, do you think in this moment you've made one or two or both of those songs?

• 1:17:56Speaker 01

  Maybe I would think like maybe I haven't even written it yet.

• 1:17:59Sam Fragoso?

  You don't think you haven't written it?

• 1:18:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, like, I think I've still got something in the well, you know?

• 1:18:03Sam Fragoso?

  You're nervous to even put one out here?

• 1:18:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:05Sam Fragoso?

  On the record.

• 1:18:07Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm full of life, man. I want to do some more stuff. I'm really excited about the new stuff. But I don't know, you know, people seem to really like a few songs that I have. And, you know, Come Down's got some legs to it. It seems just every year is something. It's like people still don't know that song. Everyone's still getting reintroduced to it. So.

• 1:18:26Sam Fragoso?

  That's a perfect song.

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  That could be the one. And it might never come down.

• 1:18:29Sam Fragoso?

  Last question for you. In the beginning, you were back at church, performing, playing drums. People in the choir would tell you, play in the pocket, play it in the pocket. But they would also tell you, as we talked about, as D'Angelo mentioned, like, you have to shut down a part of yourself and like be a vessel for the Lord. But shutting down yourself is a little easier when you're a teenager and the self is still developing. And not that there's that much of you at that point. And I'm wondering, now that you're about to turn 40. You look younger.

• 1:19:01Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:19:02Sam Fragoso?

  And you've made all these records. You've won nine Grammys. Is it possible to remove ego and just play at this point? Like, do you still think of yourself as a vessel for the Lord? Or has the mission changed in some ways? Like, when you're on stage, what the hell happens?

• 1:19:20Speaker 01

  It's, I think it's, I relate this to being a drummer. I'm a drummer first. And when I'm playing drums, I could be playing a song, right? And you'll hear one thing, but in my mind, it might be something completely different. Things are happening in my mind that I have to ignore.

• 1:19:36Sam Fragoso?

  What's going on?

• 1:19:37Speaker 01

  I might want to do some crazy, like Travis Barker thing, or like something I just heard a 12-year-old do on YouTube. Or I want to try this thing. I want to just. There's things going, intrusive thoughts, I think they call them, right? And that's what, that's what life is about. Learning when and where and maintaining this discipline, knowing that everything might be riding on you. Everyone's riding on you to kind of keep it. It's that restraint. It's that, you know, holding back within giving it and keeping the train going and keeping the foundation while letting other person be available. Or then, and waiting for when it's time for you to be available, when that solo comes, now give them everything, you know? Knowing not to just blow your whole load right away when I'm doing.

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  You can't just get the iron and start thinking that you're going to get the wrinkles out right away. You got to plug it in, let it get warm, let it get hot.

• 1:20:25Sam Fragoso?

  I'm trying to end this podcast.

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  This is the dismount. I'm going somewhere. Let me take this home.

• 1:20:29Sam Fragoso?

  Please, take us home.

• 1:20:29Speaker 01

  When you're doing a show, you got to take your time. I might have some pyro in the show. I might have like all the hits and stuff. I might can't lead with that. I got to take, I got to take them on a little journey first.

• 1:20:38Sam Fragoso?

  Foreplay.

• 1:20:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, a little foreplay, never hurt, you know? It never hurt. So, yeah, I think that's what it is with, to go back to the church thing. When they say play the pocket, we know you can do all that crazy stuff, but sometimes it's, you know, easier to run away than what would make you stay. It might be a little harder to, to practice that little discipline, but it might be worth it in the end, you know, for, for story's sake and for the people. And that's what we're doing. We're serving the people with this music and what I'm doing. I'm providing a service, the soundtrack to your life. And there's a way I want to go about doing it. And it's the balance. I don't, I don't know if I ever mastered that, but I'm enjoying the journey of it.

• 1:21:16Sam Fragoso?

  And you still want to do it?

• 1:21:17Speaker 01

  Still want to do it. Some days are better than others, but I still got to do it.

• 1:21:22Sam Fragoso?

  How's this been?

• 1:21:23Speaker 01

  I think we exploited a lot of strengths in you. And I think you did great research and I hope this comes out.

• 1:21:31Sam Fragoso?

  It's gonna come out.

• 1:21:32Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 1:21:33Sam Fragoso?

  Anderson Paak, thank you so much for the time.

• 1:21:35Speaker 01

  It was my pleasure.

• 1:21:36Sam Fragoso?

  I wanted to say this to you on the record. I remember the first time I saw you about a decade ago and that that feeling I felt then, I still feel it now and the joy you produced, it was real and it's remained in me. So that's the most sentimental thing I could say and it's 100% true.

• 1:21:53Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:21:53Sam Fragoso?

  And thank you for the mutual exploitation. It was a lot of fun.

• 1:21:56Speaker 01

  Thank you. My pleasure.

• 1:21:57Sam Fragoso?

  Congrats on the movie.

• 1:21:58Speaker 01

  Thank you. Appreciate you, man.

• 1:22:21Sam Fragoso?

  MUBI is a global film company bringing great cinema to the world and to you. Everything at MUBI is handpicked with an emphasis on visionary filmmakers and movies worth discovering. One new movie is called Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma, from writer-director Jane Schonbrun, who made the film I Saw the TV Glow. The film stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson. It follows a young director tasked with resurrecting Camp Miasma, a once-beloved slasher franchise that after years of sequels has fallen out of favor. Looking for inspiration, she visits the reclusive actress who starred in the original film. What begins at attempt to revive the franchise soon pulls the two women into a blood-soaked world of desire, fear, and delirium.

• 1:23:05Sam Fragoso?

  It's a world-expanding, genre-bending movie from one of the most distinctive filmmakers working today. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma is now streaming exclusively on MUBI. You can try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com/talkeasy. That's MUBI, M-U-B-I dot com slash talkeasy for a whole month of great cinema for free.

• 1:23:28Sam Fragoso?

  I think a lot of us are going to spend the next few weeks looking for gifts online. And while I like finding something thoughtful for the people in my life, the process can get a little ridiculous. You've got a dozen tabs open, you're comparing prices, and you're trying to remember which store had that one thing you saw that has a deal, and you flagged it, and you saved it, and now you can't find it. Anyway, that's what I like about Shop. Shop brings all kinds of stores together in one place, so you can search for what you're looking for across different brands, while discovering new ones along the way, plus tracking all your orders without jumping in between websites. And just in time for the holidays, they're celebrating the all-new shop.com with a pretty extraordinary giveaway.

• 1:24:09Sam Fragoso?

  1,000 shoppers will win $1,000 in Shop Cash. That's $1 million in total, which you can put towards gifts for other people, or maybe something you've had an eye on for yourself. And you don't have to buy anything to enter the giveaway. Enter to win the $1 million Shop Cash giveaway from now until November 1st. Just go to shop.com. There are so many ways to win, and that's shop.com. Shopping designed around you. No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at shop.com.

• 1:24:57Sam Fragoso?

  And that's our show. If you enjoyed today's episode, it would mean a whole lot if you shared the program on social media. Tag us at Talk Easy Pod. You can also leave us five stars on Spotify and review on Apple. All of this really does help us continue making the program each and every Sunday. I want to give a special thanks this week to the teams at 42 West and Full Coverage. I also want to thank Red Gaskell, Brittany Ash, and of course, our guest, Anderson Paak. His new movie, K-Pops, will be in theaters February 27. More info, visit talkeasypod.com. If you'd like to watch the video version of this episode, be sure to check out our new YouTube page. It's at Talk Easy with Sam Fragoso on YouTube.

• 1:25:42Sam Fragoso?

  If you want to purchase one of our mugs, they come in cream or navy, visit www-talkeasypod.com/shop. You can follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok at Talk Easy Pod. Talk Easy, as always, is produced by Caroline Reebok. Our executive producer is Janik Sabrava. Today's talk was edited by Corey Etad and Finn Nallin. It was mixed by Andrew Vastola. It was filmed out of higher ground in Los Angeles, California, with music from Dylan Peck, illustrations by Chris Shennoy, photographs by Simi Malik, production assistance by Neil Mulaney, research assistance from Pierce Harvey. This episode was made in partnership with the good people at Higher Ground Media, and

• 1:26:26Sam Fragoso?

  I'm Sam Fragoso. Thank you for listening to Talk Easy. I'll see you back here next Sunday with a brand new episode. Until then, stay safe and solo.

• 1:26:44Speaker 06

  History gets written, then rewritten, sometimes by scholars correcting the record, sometimes by committees deciding what a generation of kids will and won't learn. The version that makes it into the textbook isn't always the only story. It's the one that won out. That's the kind of thing Ground News was built for. It shows you how outlets across the spectrum tell the same story, side by side, so you can spot the shading for yourself. Ground News gives each outlet a factuality rating, so you know how much weight to give the source, and shows you who owns it, so you know what's behind it. The Nobel Peace Center called it "an excellent way to stay informed, avoid echo chambers,

• 1:27:29Speaker 06

  and expand your worldview." So go to groundnews.com/RC. That's G R O U N D N E W S dot com slash R C for 40% off unlimited access vantage plan. Get it yourself or gift it to someone who'd rather know than not. Use my link, groundnews.com/RC, so you get the discount and they know I sent you. If you're a fan of learning all sides of history, then Ground News is for you. One more time, groundnews.com/RC.

• 1:28:05Speaker 07

  I'm Dan Heath. On What It's Like to Be, I interview people about their jobs. Here's a married couple that drives a long haul truck together.

• 1:28:13Speaker 08

  We backed up and they loaded fresh dead rats.

• 1:28:17Speaker 07

  I mean, how many rats would you guess were back there?

• 1:28:19Speaker 08

  There were 32,000 pounds of them.

• 1:28:22Speaker 07

  32,000 pounds of frozen dead rats.

• 1:28:26Speaker 08

  That's it.

• 1:28:28Speaker 07

  Find out what it's like to be a long haul trucker, a couples therapist, or an FBI agent, all on the podcast, What It's Like to Be.