The Longest Fence in the World

How a fence meant to protect sheep transformed the entire Australian landscape.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Roman Mars?

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• 0:43Roman Mars?

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• 1:03Roman Mars?

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• 1:49Roman Mars?

  Over the years in this job, I've learned a lot of cocktail party facts about the built environment. For example, the tallest building in the world is the Burj Khalifa in Dubai. But the largest building in the world by volume is a Boeing airplane factory in Everett, Washington. It's 472 million cubic feet. The longest bridge is in China, as is the longest wall. No surprise there. But what about the longest fence? Reporter Shirley Wong traveled deep into rural Australia to find it.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  The longest fence in the world begins just a few hours north of Brisbane, on the outskirts of a small town called Jindawi. Jindawi has a hardware store, an accountant's office, a butcher shop, a beauty salon, and a small hotel on top of a pub. Oh, I've got a meat tray raffle. I love those. But I wasn't here to win a meat tray. I came to Jindawi to meet Doug Henning. He's a former tourism officer who agreed to give me a tour of the fence his town is famous for. Hi, so nice to meet you.

• 2:59Speaker 02

  Yes, thank you. I've been watching the weather.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 3:02Speaker 02

  The clouds are going that way. So we should be lucky this afternoon.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Okay, great. I met up with Doug outside the Jindawi Cultural Centre, right in the middle of town. And he was standing next to an almost seven-foot-tall sculpture of a dog.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  It's all made from small pieces of metal welded together.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  This metallic hound is a dingo, an animal that can only be found on the island continent of Australia.

• 3:31Roman Mars?

  Dingoes are Australia's apex predator. They are smaller than wolves but can run just as fast. They are lean and extremely athletic. They have reddish-blond fur, white bellies, and pointy ears. They look kind of like, I don't know, buff, Shiba Inus.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  Given this giant prominent statue, you might think that the people of Jindawi worshipped the mighty dingo. But Doug informed me this is very much not the case. So there's not a lot of dingo fans in town?

• 4:00Speaker 02

  Uh, not a great lot.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  In fact, Jindawi's famous fence was built to keep dingoes out.

• 4:09Roman Mars?

  It's called the Dingo Barrier Fence, and it stretches across the southeastern corner of the continent, separating dingoes from the part of the country where the vast majority of Australians actually live. And it is the longest continuous fence in the world.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  At over 5,000 kilometres, the Dingo Barrier Fence is longer than the distance between San Francisco and New York City.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  This is it.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  And in a field just outside of Jindawi is where the fence starts.

• 4:38Speaker 02

  That big tree there is the true start of the fence and it goes that way.

• 4:43Speaker 01

  To be honest, it's not much to look at, just a regular wire fence that's about six feet tall to prevent dingoes from jumping over. I want to stand next to it and see if it goes above my head. I think it should. I'm 5'4". Okay, I'm like about the same height as it.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  You are standing on a 12-inch mound.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  I am standing... Okay, fair enough. The fence starts here in the middle of a cattle pasture and from there it runs all the way across the continent. This goes on and on and on, all the way to South Australia.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's lovely.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  The dingo barrier fence is a remarkable piece of infrastructure and not just because of its length. This simple wire structure has actually transformed the entire ecology of Australia. It has split the continent in two, separating animal populations and changing the landscape so much that you can see the effects from space.

• 5:41Roman Mars?

  When you drive around Australia, fences are everywhere. They're used to control the movement of a lot of different kinds of animals. In fact, the dingo fence was originally built to manage a different creature altogether.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  When British colonizers came to Australia in the late 18th century, they wanted this new place to feel like home and so they took the plants and animals of Europe with them.

• 6:03Speaker 03

  And a lot of these species were actually brought in in a lot of cases for hunting, to allow people to go hunt these animals that they're used to going to hunt in their home countries.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  This is Thomas Newsom, an ecologist and associate professor at the University of Sydney.

• 6:19Speaker 03

  So foxes, for example, were brought in so people could hunt them. Cats were brought in, they were kept as pets and they established wild populations. But in Australia, we've got other species that were brought in, deer, pigs, goats. They were all brought in for some form of a purpose.

• 6:37Roman Mars?

  But that didn't turn out so well. Because of Australia's island geography, the native plants and animals there evolved in relative isolation, which made them particularly vulnerable to invasive species. And without a large number of natural predators, many of these new European creatures ran riot.

• 6:54Speaker 03

  Unfortunately, all of those, the ones I've listed and many more, have created devastating effects on our fauna.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  The most destructive invader was surprisingly the rabbit.

• 7:07Roman Mars?

  Rabbits came to Australia all because of one man, Thomas Austin, whose brother shipped him 24 rabbits from England as a gift. Over the next three years, those 24 animals bred like, well, rabbits. And soon, there were thousands. The rabbits damaged crops, overgrazed grasses, spread diseases, dug holes wherever they pleased. Basically, they were the worst gift ever and made one man go down in Australian history as the guy who caused the rabbit plague.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  People tried to hunt them and cull them, but there were just too many. And so in 1901, the government created a rabbit department and hired an inspector to study the rabbit population. He found that rabbits hadn't yet crossed into certain agricultural areas, and that gave him an idea.

• 7:56Speaker 03

  Through the years and years of trying to trap these animals, which was unsuccessful, the next step is to try and create a barrier.

• 8:05Roman Mars?

  Rabbits can't climb very easily. They hop, but not particularly high. And so the idea was that they would stop the rabbits with a fence.

• 8:13Speaker 03

  So rabbit-proof fences were established to try and stop and contain the spread of rabbits throughout Australia.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  They built three different fences in an effort to seal off a large portion of the continent as a rabbit-free zone. But the rabbits managed to find a way around all of them.

• 8:31Speaker 03

  It wasn't successful. Rabbits ended up going all throughout Australia.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  Other states built rabbit fences during this period that also failed. And so in the end, the government had all these rabbit fences across the country that were serving no purpose. Over the years, the fences began to disintegrate.

• 8:49Roman Mars?

  But around this time, another European animal was taking over Australia. And soon, all those rusty rabbit fences would be given a new purpose.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  In the 1800s, wool was a critical material for the British textile industry. But Great Britain didn't have enough land to produce the sheep themselves. So they turned to their colony down under.

• 9:12Speaker 04

  In 1802, Lord Hobart, who is one of the poobas of the British colonial administration, he says, you know, absolutely, we want to encourage these colonists to develop fine wool that can suit our manufacturaries.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  That's Trish Fitzsimmons, co-author of the book Fleece: Unraveling the History of Wool in War. Trish says that for the first time ever, the reddish landscape of Australia began to be dotted with little white sheep.

• 9:46Roman Mars?

  And over time, the little white dots multiplied. By 1880, there were 100 million sheep in Australia, nearly 50 times the number of people.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Australian wool was particularly critical for the British military. Wool was the best material for the battlefield because it was waterproof and flame resistant. And by the time World War One rolled around, it was clear that the countries with access to wool had a huge strategic advantage.

• 10:15Speaker 04

  World War One has got so many more soldiers than any previous war. I want to say 60 or 70 million. Each of those men needs something like 20 sheep to support them, keep them alive, keep them warm, just in one year.

• 10:37Roman Mars?

  World War One cemented wool as the foundation of the Australian economy. But as the industry continued to grow, farmers needed more land for grazing. And so they started to breed sheep that could survive in these super-dry, marginal regions of the continent. And it was there that the economic superstar of Australia, the sheep, met its great adversary: the dingo.

• 11:02Speaker 04

  As the wool industry gathers a head of steam, the areas of the continent where sheep are grown starts to expand out into the continent. Those sheep are vulnerable to dingoes.

• 11:18Roman Mars?

  For dingoes, the expansion of sheep into the interior was like a free buffet.

• 11:23Speaker 01

  But for farmers, the situation was a nightmare. Dingoes are highly effective pack hunters. They are pretty much Australia's version of the big, bad wolf. And farmers would wake up and find that dozens of their sheep had been killed or maimed in dingo attacks.

• 11:41Roman Mars?

  Because of the size of the flocks and their remote locations, it wasn't a simple problem to fix.

• 11:47Speaker 05

  The whole wool industry itself is set up, so you can't have predators. It's not financially viable to be out there protecting the sheep.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  That's Dr. Justine Phillip, an environmental historian.

• 11:59Speaker 05

  You need to be able to put out these flocks of sheep, which number, you know, at least 2,000. You're not talking about a small flock. You're talking 2,000 and upwards, you know, 20,000, 100,000 sheep.

• 12:11Speaker 05

  And they basically put them out to pasture and they don't supervise them. So you can't do that without being pretty confident that you've got rid of all the predators in the surrounding area.

• 12:23Roman Mars?

  Farmers wanted to completely eliminate this threat. And because the wool industry was so politically powerful, they got their wish. Australia went to war with the dingo.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  First, they created incentive programs that encouraged farmers to kill dingoes. Soon, there were professional dingo hunters and trappers, who were paid bounties for every dingo they killed.

• 12:49Roman Mars?

  And then, after World War II, Australia ramped up its assault. A newspaper headline from 1946 read, "D-Day for Dingoes", above an article describing a plan to drop over 300,000 poisonous dingo baits across the landscape.

• 13:04Speaker 05

  And so that really brought the whole system up a notch because instead of having to do ground baiting and doing everything on foot, they actually took the air on these aeroplanes, which had come back from the war in recent use, and they had lots of pilots that were available for work. And so they started doing enormous aerial baiting projects across Australia.

• 13:27Roman Mars?

  But at the same time they were slaughtering these animals, the wool industry was developing a different strategy, a plan to keep dingoes and sheep permanently separate. They would take all of those defunct rabbit fences and use them for dingoes instead.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  And so the rabbit-proof fences were given a dingo renovation. They joined the old rabbit fences together and raised them up to a height that could keep dingoes out.

• 13:53Speaker 03

  Eventually, they had a big dingo fence, which was once actually 9,600 kilometres long, and it's now still huge, five and a half thousand kilometres long.

• 14:06Roman Mars?

  That's around 3,400 miles, cutting across scrublands and desert. And though the fence didn't effectively keep out rabbits, it did succeed in its second purpose. Thomas says the fence effectively sealed off nearly a third of the continent as a dingo-free zone.

• 14:25Speaker 02

  See, we're here at this point here now, and it goes that way, then that way, then it goes all the way.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  Wow, there's some wallabies over there. I see them galloping around.

• 14:33Speaker 02

  That's a kangaroo.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  Kangaroo, oh.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  I'm back in Jindawi in the eastern state of Queensland, and I'm walking along the dingo fence with Doug Henning.

• 14:44Roman Mars?

  Australia still spends big money on this fence, $10 million a year funded through state and local governments and a fence tax on sheep and cattle farmers.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  The fence is maintained by a team of patrolmen who divvy up the length and each take care of a section. Doug pointed to a hole that had been patched over.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  See this piece of mesh here?

• 15:04Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 15:06Speaker 02

  There's a hole underneath there.

• 15:07Speaker 01

  Okay, I see that, yeah.

• 15:09Speaker 02

  Something's got through here, so they've come along and put another piece in there.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah. What kind of animal would have made that hole?

• 15:16Speaker 02

  Oh, it'd be very hard to say.

• 15:20Speaker 02

  I don't know, porcupine?

• 15:22Speaker 01

  Porcupine, yeah.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  Echidna, not a porcupine, that's a different echidna. Sometimes we'll dig a hole like that under a fence.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  All along the fence, there are large dents where the wire has been caved in. So what are the dents that we see in the fence?

• 15:36Speaker 02

  Mainly kangaroos.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  From running into it? They run into it hard enough that?

• 15:40Speaker 02

  They'll dig the fence.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  The animals of the outback damage the dingo fence all the time. But that's nothing compared to the damage the fence does to them.

• 15:52Roman Mars?

  The fence interrupts migration patterns and prevents animals from moving around in search of food or water. Emus, kangaroos, and wallabies all get stuck behind the fence. Some of these creatures play an important ecological role transporting seeds, and so the fence has impacted plant diversity as well.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  But one of the biggest effects the fence has had on the environment was just removing the dingo from a massive chunk of the continent. As Australia's apex predator, the dingo kept other animal populations in check. And when the dingo went away, it set off a cascade of ecological consequences.

• 16:30Speaker 03

  The most visible effects are that when dingos are removed, kangaroos in particular, their numbers explode.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  That's ecologist Thomas Newsom again. He says that because there are no dingos eating them, there are actually too many kangaroos in Australia.

• 16:51Roman Mars?

  I mean, can there really be such a thing as too many kangaroos?

• 16:54Speaker 01

  Yes, it's gotten to the point where some of my vegan friends, who are vegan for ethical reasons, will make an exception for kangaroos because hunting them helps control the population. The excess number of kangaroos is a genuine problem in Australia.

• 17:10Speaker 03

  They end up overgrazing the landscape, taking away the food and shelter that's available for small mammals and birds and reptiles.

• 17:20Roman Mars?

  The population of red foxes and feral cats has also gone up in the absence of dingos, which in turn has driven native Australian species like bilbies and bandicoots to near extinction.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  But the impacts of the dingo fence go beyond wildlife. On the dingo side, there are more grasses and leafy ground cover, while on the side without dingos, there are more dry woody shrubs. The fence has created essentially two different ecological universes on either side.

• 17:49Speaker 03

  So there's studies showing that you can see the effects of the dingo fence from space, both in terms of the vegetation that's there on either side, but also they've linked it to changes in dune morphology as well.

• 18:01Roman Mars?

  In the desert on the dingo side of the fence, the land is looser with dunes that shift in the wind. It's closer to the way the landscape would have looked before colonization.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  All of this is the ecological price that Australia keeps paying year after year to keep a whole bunch of sheep safe. But the thing is, the wool industry isn't really what it used to be, and sheep are no longer the backbone of the economy.

• 18:28Roman Mars?

  Which makes Australia's commitment to the dingo fence a little hard to understand.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  What are the conversations around the fence these days? Like, do people want to tear them down?

• 18:39Speaker 03

  It's still a hotly debated topic, both among scientists, but also with people who are trying to run sheep or livestock operations in these areas as well. So it would be very difficult, for example, for a politician to come out and say, "We're going to tear down the dingo fence."

• 18:58Roman Mars?

  It turns out tearing down the dingo fence is a political third rail.

• 19:02Speaker 05

  It's not a topic that people would approach normally because it was considered political suicide to talk about removing the dingo fence.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  Here's Justine Philip again. She says the fence is a symbol of Australia's agricultural heritage. And for politicians who want to show support for farmers, the dingo fence must be upheld.

• 19:23Speaker 05

  To suggest even that you take it down is considered very un-Australian.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  I have to admit, I was a bit confused hearing Justine say this. I mean, sure, the fence is iconic, unique, totally Australian. But I kept thinking, so is the dingo.

• 19:41Roman Mars?

  The thing is, the general public hasn't always seen the dingo as this one-of-a-kind Australian animal like the kangaroo or the koala. In fact, for a long time, people thought dingos were just regular domestic dogs that had gone wild.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Growing up, even Justine believed this.

• 19:58Speaker 05

  I thought that they would be like a really wild feral dog. I had no idea that they were a separate species.

• 20:05Speaker 01

  People didn't start to appreciate the dingo until the 1960s, when scientists, including Thomas Newsom's dad, Alan, began conducting in-depth research on how unique the dingo truly was.

• 20:18Speaker 03

  They started to understand their movements, their behaviours and their diet.

• 20:24Speaker 03

  And that really formed the basis for understanding their ecological role, but also understanding, well, what are dingos? Because there's also a lot of interest in, well, what are they?

• 20:38Roman Mars?

  Dingos are a bit hard to classify. Experts say they are descendants of a primitive Asian dog that came to Australia either with seafarers or by land bridge, somewhere between 4,000 and 10,000 years ago. This has led to some debate about whether or not dingos should be considered native to Australia.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  But the fact is, dingos evolved in Australia. And over centuries, they came to thrive in a range of habitats all over the continent, from the desert to the tropical rainforest to the Australian Alps. They eventually spent enough time in Australia that they became genetically distinct from their ancestors, meaning the modern dingo has never lived anywhere else.

• 21:19Roman Mars?

  Dingos were shaped not only by the Australian landscape, but by the people who lived there. Before colonization, dingos had deeply intimate relationships with humans. To the Aboriginal people of Australia, they were partners in hunting and water finding. Dingos evolved as a crucial part of Aboriginal life, and often resided in their camps, sometimes as protectors, or sometimes as companions.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  Over time, the scientific consensus shifted and people began to understand the dingo as a native Australian species. And as researchers highlighted the dingo's origin story, it brought in a whole new generation of dingo fans like Justine.

• 21:58Speaker 05

  I did a masters in animal science and then I did my PhD. And a lot of that was around this interest and their misrepresentation, basically. And they were such beautiful creatures. It seemed really strange that they had been greatly misrepresented.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  I also have a lot of sympathy for underappreciated animals, including the dingo. I think it's probably because I watched too much Steve Irwin as a kid on TV. In 1996, Steve visited the dingo fence for an episode of The Crocodile Hunter.

• 22:36Speaker 06

  We're here in southeast Queensland and this is the start of the dingo fence. Now, the dingo fence was established in...

• 22:43Speaker 01

  Steve drove along the length of the dingo fence and he was disturbed by what he saw. Hunters and trappers had left dead dingo carcasses everywhere.

• 22:52Speaker 06

  We find it very difficult to come to terms with seeing dead animals strung up in fences and trees.

• 23:02Roman Mars?

  It's been 30 years since Steve Irwin recorded that episode. The dingo fence still exists and people continue to hunt these creatures to keep their populations down. But there is a growing sense in Australia that this is an animal worth protecting. Coming up after the break, we take you to an island off the coast of Australia where dingoes run free and where a recent tragedy has people asking whether dingoes and humans can safely coexist.

• 23:33Roman Mars?

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• 24:43Roman Mars?

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• 26:33Speaker 01

  When I finished touring the dingo fence with Doug, I was a little disappointed that apart from the metal sculpture, Doug and I hadn't actually seen a dingo. But there is another place in Australia where anyone who wants to see dingoes is likely to find them. It's an island that was once called Fraser Island, but now goes by its indigenous Butchala name, Gari.

• 26:58Roman Mars?

  Gari is covered in tropical rainforest with long white sand beaches and a series of spectacular freshwater lakes. The island is home to a small population of dingoes that have evolved in isolation from the animals on the mainland. When Gari was named a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 1992, the dingoes on the island were officially named an indigenous species and provided legal protection, meaning they are allowed to roam free.

• 27:25Speaker 01

  The Butchala Aboriginal Corporation hires rangers to deal specifically with dingoes, which they call wongari. It's a role that Butchala people have played for thousands of years, long before colonization. They recognized dingoes as dangerous animals, but ones that were worth keeping around.

• 27:44Roman Mars?

  And they developed non-lethal ways to manage them. For example, if a dingo got too familiar or audacious, they would ward him off with safety sticks. And the tips they give the visitors today are directly informed by the old ways.

• 27:59Speaker 04

  Like if you're in a camp area, you make sure if you see a wongari even looking or lurking around, you make him know that that's your camp area.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  Tessa Waya is an officer for the Butchala Aboriginal Corporation, and she works with park rangers on Gari. A big part of her job is educating people on how to be safe around dingoes.

• 28:20Speaker 04

  You know, with a loud voice, shout, yell, he will know because that's your being the dominant. And I said, and he will just watch from a fuck, because he knows he's not welcome in there. And that's how that was managed back in the old times to now, you know what I mean?

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Tessa told me she believed humans and dingos can live alongside each other on Gari peacefully, just like in the past. But there are real obstacles, including the sheer volume of tourists.

• 28:50Roman Mars?

  Hundreds of thousands of tourists visit Gari every year. Many of those people come specifically to catch a glimpse of a dingo, this animal that they've been fenced off from on the mainland. And the tour operators use the dingo like a cute mascot to advertise their services. Here's an ad for a tour of the island featuring a strange dingo puppet narrator.

• 29:12Speaker 06

  Jada, Daryl the Fraser Island dingo here to tell you about the absolute best Fraser Island tag along tour your money can buy. Forget about Rainbow Beach.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Boyd Blackman is a butchera elder who has worked for 30 years as a ranger in the park. A few years ago, he saw a tour bus with an image of a particularly ridiculous looking cartoon dingo.

• 29:34Speaker 02

  The actual dingo was wearing, you know, like a party hat and sunglasses and he had sneakers on and with a wine shirt and it said, come party with me.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  Boyd says that advertisements like this give tourists the wrong impression about these animals. Sometimes tourists get too close or even try to take a selfie with a dingo.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  You know, for a lot of those backpackers and people that come, I think they might have looked at it as, you know, a lot of people found out that koalas are cute and they're cuddly until they pull their claws out. The dingo, he's not a party animal. The message, I guess, is, you know, play it safe. These are naturally wild animals.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  Tessa says that the volume of tourists has caused some of Gari's dingoes to become habituated to humans. They eat from trashcans and hang around tourist campsites. And that has led to some serious problems.

• 30:30Roman Mars?

  There have been a number of high-profile dingo attacks over the years. You've probably heard about the famous "dingo ate my baby" case in the 1980s, which happened on the mainland. But there have also been attacks on Gari. In 2001, a young boy was killed by dingoes while camping with his family.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  After that tragedy, the government culled dingoes and fenced in some of the largest townships on the island to try and keep people safe. But tourism has only increased since then. And while dingo attacks on people are rare, they've been happening more and more in recent years as the island gets more crowded. The Butchula Aboriginal Corporation wants the government to restrict tourism or even close the island altogether during times of the year when dingoes are particularly active. But so far, this has been a nonstarter.

• 31:24Roman Mars?

  And then, just as we were getting ready to publish this episode...

• 31:28Speaker 06

  We begin tonight with a tragedy on Gari.

• 31:31Roman Mars?

  A young Canadian tourist named Piper James was found dead on the beach in Gari.

• 31:36Speaker 06

  Her body was discovered, surrounded by a pack of dingoes with significant bite wounds.

• 31:42Roman Mars?

  The exact cause of her death is still unclear. An initial assessment suggests that she drowned, but also that she had been bitten by dingoes before she died.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  I called Tessa back to see how the community on the island was responding.

• 31:58Speaker 06

  The community is very shaken up, and it's just distressing. Like, you know, I can only imagine what the parents, you know, are going through. And so, yeah, I mean, it's quite heartbreaking.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  Tessa wouldn't be surprised if dingoes had been involved in Piper's death. She says the Butchula Aboriginal Corporation has been saying for years that something like this might happen.

• 32:24Speaker 06

  Look, I was surprised, but it wasn't so much a shock in that sense because we've been actually telling the government that, you know, there needs to be a cap on the visitor numbers. And then they want to say, "Oh, are we so shocked?" Well, no, you were warned.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  The tragedy on Gari made international news, and it has sparked a lot of fierce debates about how to respond. In the end, the government made the decision to euthanize the pack of 10 dingos that had been found near the body, arguing it was necessary for public safety.

• 32:57Roman Mars?

  But several scientists have questioned that decision, arguing that previous dingo calls have not made the island safer. There are somewhere between 70 and 200 dingos left on Gari, and scientists argue that killing any of these animals reduces critical genetic diversity and makes the population much more vulnerable to extinction.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  The Butchula Aboriginal Corporation says they were not consulted about the decision to call the dingos. And when Tessa found out that the animals had been killed, she was devastated.

• 33:28Speaker 06

  So when we had found out, it was very sad. Everyone was sad, you know, because to the Butchula people, the wongaries are their family, you know, is like their brothers, their sisters, you know, like, so that's, you know, how significant these animals are to them.

• 33:46Speaker 06

  These wongaries, they're punished for doing what they do naturally. It's not right.

• 33:56Roman Mars?

  Dingos have a fraught history in Australia. They are an iconic, charismatic animal, but they are also dangerous predators and have often been treated as a problem or a pest. Dingos have been fenced out, killed off, to make way for human activity. The Aboriginal history in a place like Gari shows that humans and dingos can coexist. But coexistence in the modern world will require a complicated rebalancing of the relationship. This is a difficult, but necessary, challenge because these are beautiful creatures, and Australia is their only home.

• 34:58Roman Mars?

  99% Invisible was reported this week by Shirley Wong, produced and edited by Emmett Fitzgerald with help from Kelly Prime, mixed by Martine Gonzalez, music by Swan Real and George Langford, fact checking by Sona Avakyan. Special thanks to David Murkumthura, Madeline Shaw, co-author of the book Fleece, and Ronald Breckwald, author of the book Dingo: The True Story of Australia's Most Maligned Native Animal. Kathy Too is our executive producer, Kurt Colstead is the digital director, Delaney Hall is our senior editor. The rest of the team includes Chris Berube, Jason DeLeon, Christopher Johnson, Vivian Le, Laish Madon, Joe Rosenberg, Jacob Medina Gleason, Talon and Rain Stradley, and me, Roman Mars. The 99% Invisible logo was created by Stefan Lawrence. We are part

• 35:43Roman Mars?

  of the SiriusXM Podcast family, now headquartered six blocks north in the Pandora Building in beautiful Uptown Oakland, California. You can find us on all the usual social media sites as well as our own Discord server. There's a link to that as well as every past episode of 99PI at 99pi.org.

• 36:11Speaker 05

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