We Investigated Magic Johnson, Mark Walter... and Your Nest Egg

A mysterious billionaire sold the Lakers, as the feds closed in. But how Mark Walter bought the Dodgers — while enriching himself with the money of everyday Americans, and his own entities — reveals why franchises got so valuable, even if the sports bubble is about to pop. Pablo calls up insiders, Hunterbrook Media's Sam Koppelman sniffs out fishy documents... and a Hall-of-Famer has some explaining to do. • Read more from Hunterbrook Media https://hntrbrk.com/investigations/magicjohnson • Subscribe to PTFO on YouTube for breaking news, greatest hits and live premieres with Pablo https://www.youtube.com/@PabloTorreFindsOut (Pablo Torre Finds Out is independently produced by Meadowlark Media and distributed by The Athletic. The views, research and reporting expressed in this episode are solely those of Pablo Torre Finds Out and Hunterbrook Media and do not reflect the work or editorial input of The Athletic or its journalists.) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Pablo Torre?

  Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre and today we're going to find out what this sound is.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  In the end, they're taking money from retail investors and that's the money ultimately that's being invested and funneled into these loans. That's who gets screwed.

• 0:17Pablo Torre?

  Right after this.

• 0:21Speaker 02

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• 0:51Speaker 03

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• 1:24Pablo Torre?

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• 2:07Pablo Torre?

  While shopping, you'll also find great perks like Dell Rewards, fast free shipping, premium support, and financing with flexible payment options. Shop the winners now at dell.com/deals. That's dell.com/deals.

• 2:31Pablo Torre?

  I mean, this is a story you can just like never stop reporting.

• 2:34Speaker 04

  I know, that's the problem. Yes.

• 2:36Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, I mean, it's the problem of my summer vacation, which you helped ruin, Sam compliments.

• 2:41Speaker 04

  I waited like two days. I waited two days to bother you. But it's not every summer vacation when a multi-billionaire has their phone and laptop seized on their private jet. And then it comes out that that same billionaire is selling the Lakers a year after buying the team. That felt like break glass in case of emergency. It's Pablo's music.

• 3:03Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, apologize to your daughter because the Lakers got sold for a record $12.5 billion to Josh Custer and Bob Iger. And this week, the NBA handed out arguably the biggest punishment in pro sports history, while the SEC is also now probing Daktronics. And, oh yeah, Mark Walter is a guy that people should probably be aware of.

• 3:27Speaker 05

  Mark Walter's insurance companies are shuffling billions of dollars of investments as he faces an intense federal investigation into allegations of multi-billion dollar loan fraud. The Department of Justice and the SEC are investigating whether Walter illegally used money from insurance companies he controls to fund his massive sports investments without proper disclosure.

• 3:48Speaker 04

  When a billionaire sports owner is accused of self-dealing, I'm pretty sure you're going to pick up the phone.

• 3:53Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, the federal whistleblower, parallel investigations by the DOJ and the SEC, a couple grand jury subpoenas, and Violet, I'm sorry that I'm on the phone this much while we're on the beach.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Mark Walter is a very successful financial services tycoon from the US. And he co-founded a financial services business called Guggenheim Partners, what has gone on to become an enormously successful fund-based asset manager, huge amounts of assets under management.

• 4:28Speaker 06

  Los Angeles Dodgers, the Chelsea Football Club, Cadillac F1 team, and up until recently, the Los Angeles Lakers. I don't think people realize how crazy this story is. Like, there is a scenario in the multiverse where the guy that owns the Dodgers goes to jail. Like, it's crazy.

• 4:44Pablo Torre?

  The number of podcasts I've listened to where people properly pronounce finance.

• 4:50Speaker 04

  Finance.

• 4:51Pablo Torre?

  Finance. All of it feels way too complicated for sports fans at first to wrap their minds around because there's all this financial engineering and there's insurance stuff and bond documents.

• 5:03Speaker 04

  Most people aren't titillated by insurance bond documents, Pablo.

• 5:08Pablo Torre?

  I mean, look, I never assume that my kink is others, but there is, I think, a simple idea at the core of this, which is that the public, and this is like the through line of our show, it turns out, the public does need the insanely improbably impossibly wealthy owners of sports teams to tell us the truth by law about what their money is really doing.

• 5:37Speaker 04

  Sports teams used to be owned by like the richest guy in a town. And they loved their team so much and they became successful or their parents were successful. And then they used that money to buy the team. But the thing is that sports teams have become this incredibly expensive asset. And so these owners have to go to incredible extremes to raise money to buy these teams. And that's how you end up with a Lakers sale at $12 billion.

• 6:05Pablo Torre?

  And the term people just need to understand here briefly is leverage. They are leveraging other assets to pay these insane prices, unprecedented prices, and leveraging, Sam, just means they're using the money that they have to borrow more of it.

• 6:22Speaker 04

  Right. And with Mark Walter, the big pool of money that he has access to is insurance money. The way this works is basically Americans buy life insurance policies. They come in two forms. One is if something tragic happens to you, you've paid into these insurance plans and money will be paid out to your family members who are left behind. The other way is while you're working, you can pay money into a life insurer, something called annuities, and you end up getting paid out annuities later in your life. So you're investing today for some kind of payout tomorrow. But the way insurance companies actually work is that they invest those upfront payments.

• 6:59Pablo Torre?

  Right. Your parents and your grandparents, give them this money with the assurance that they will get something back in return as time goes on. This is the nest egg.

• 7:09Speaker 04

  Exactly. And historically, the insurance companies would invest in safe assets. They'd buy bonds or real estate, the kinds of things you could bet on to reliably, over time, go up. But the problem with those things, Pablo, is that they're boring. Way more boring than sports teams because they don't enable the owner of an insurance company to keep that much after they distribute to their policyholders. So insurance companies, they start buying more and more out there kind of stuff.

• 7:37Pablo Torre?

  Higher upside investments.

• 7:38Speaker 04

  Exactly. And a lot of this, to be clear, is legal. The thing is, there's one category of investment you're not allowed to make without proper disclosure. And that's if you're using insurance money to invest in another one of your own businesses. Like, say I owned an insurance company and also a Szechuan fish stew soup dumpling restaurant. I couldn't use your parents' and grandparents' insurance payments to invest in my dream of succulent soup dumplings filled with Szechuan fish stew unless I disclosed that very clearly. Because people would then be able to understand the kinds of things their money is being used for.

• 8:20Speaker 04

  And that disclosure would be called an affiliate transaction, which is basically a deal with yourself.

• 8:27Pablo Torre?

  Yes. And to regulators, an undisclosed affiliate transaction, much like the purely hypothetical stew that you've been pitching us, can start to smell. It can smell, in fact, like self-dealing and, at a certain point, allegedly, fraud.

• 8:45Speaker 04

  Allegedly, that is allegedly what seemed to have happened with Mark Walter and his firm, Guggenheim Partners.

• 8:51Pablo Torre?

  Right, but instead of the fish stew, he was investing your parents and grandparents' nest egg in sports. And so this is where we got to say for the record that Mark Walter's personal holding company, TWG Global, TWG stands for The Walter Group, has denied any fraud allegations, saying last week that, quote, "As it relates to Guggenheim, while the investigations originated with a whistleblower concern, TWG and Guggenheim have demonstrated there was no wrongdoing, that there is no victim here, that affiliated transactions are common across the insurance industry, and that they're not looking to sell their sports assets, including the Los Angeles Dodgers, at fire sale prices to raise capital for its insurance operations," end quote.

• 9:36Speaker 04

  You'll note that Walter's company did not deny there that it's selling the Lakers in order to raise capital for his insurance operations, but he did say pretty clearly that the Dodgers are not for sale.

• 9:46Pablo Torre?

  He's saying that, "We're not going to give this away at a discount."

• 9:49Speaker 04

  No, no, no.

• 9:50Pablo Torre?

  "We're going to charge very high prices if anything."

• 9:52Speaker 04

  Unlike normal options where people say upfront, "Hey, you're going to get a really good deal on this because I desperately need money," that's not what's happening here. No fire sale prices, period.

• 10:01Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:02Speaker 04

  To be clear, we have not proven fraud here, but what I can say is that our team at Hunterbrook Media, as well as The Wall Street Journal and The Financial Times and Bloomberg, a lot of financial journalists have been very deep in those titillating bond documents this summer. What it seems like happened is that Mark Walter and Guggenheim Partners severely underreported just how much money was mislabeled and never disclosed as an affiliate transaction. And that total, the total of affiliated transactions, has gone from what his insurers had estimated to be around $3 billion to now tens of billions of dollars, $20 billion, some people say significantly more.

• 10:45Pablo Torre?

  And so this is the smell that the feds have been investigating, and we should also disclose here for people who have not been following, how you guys at Hunterbrook Media approach really complicated stories like this.

• 10:56Speaker 04

  Yes, so here's how Hunterbrook works. Hunterbrook Media, my team, is a team of incredible journalists and truth seekers of all kinds who go figure out what's happening in the world. Hunterbrook funds all of this reporting with an affiliate, Hunterbrook Capital, that supports our journalism. And sometimes, based on our reporting, the fund will take positions in the financial market, and right now Hunterbrook Capital does have some positions related to this Guggenheim investigation, which you can see disclosed on our website, hunterbrook.com. And I want to be clear that, in my personal opinion, what's so interesting about Mark Walter is not just that there seemed to be all these affiliated transactions that he didn't disclose, but that actually a lot of these transactions seem to have worked out.

• 11:38Speaker 04

  He bought sports teams at discounts, and as in the case of the Lakers, got some pretty crazy upside returns.

• 11:44Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, as an investor, the bet being sports will go up is what his earlier statement was fundamentally alluding to. And, and look, the thing that I did not appreciate about that increase over time, until I started reporting this story myself, is that the biggest reason for that increase, the biggest catalyst behind this century's boom in sports team valuations, is arguably Mark Walter himself. He bought the Lakers at a then-record $10 billion valuation last fall. Before that, 2022, he bought a chunk of Chelsea in Premier League football at a then-record valuation of well over $3 billion alongside his partner, Todd Bowley, who is also now looking to sell.

• 12:26Pablo Torre?

  But the very first time Guggenheim Partners bought the most expensive sports franchise ever, it was about 15 years ago, it was 2012, it was Major League Baseball, and Mark Walter bought the Dodgers at $2.15 billion. And in fact, Sam, even the people who had heard of Mark Walter had no idea in 2012 how in the hell he was rich enough to buy the Dodgers in the first place. In your folder in front of you, you will find our pal Andrew Ross Orkin, writing in the New York Times Deal Book section in 2012, this.

• 13:01Speaker 04

  "A quick background check and some back-of-the-envelope math raises an obvious red flag. How on earth can this group of individuals afford to pay $2 billion in cash? The answer is that they probably can't, at least not by themselves. In addition to their own cash, Mr. Walter plans to use money from Guggenheim subsidiaries that are insurance companies, some state-regulated, to pay for a big chunk of his purchase of the Dodgers."

• 13:28Pablo Torre?

  But I think there's an even bigger reason that Mark Walter was able to dodge all sorts of scrutiny, especially from the world of sports, despite paying more than double, double the previous record for an American pro sports team, which was the Dolphins. And the reason was somebody else on his team. It's a beautiful day to be out here and a ballpark that I've spent many days eating Dodger dogs and eating popcorn and watching the Dodgers win World Series and watching some of the greatest baseball players in history play for this great organization. I remember being at Sports Illustrated in 2012, Sam, and we did a cover shoot with Magic Johnson.

• 14:13Pablo Torre?

  He was on the cover of SI behind home plate at Dodger Stadium. And it will be unsurprising to anybody who's listened to the show, which has investigated Magic Johnson's Twitter account before.

• 14:23Speaker 04

  That's Pablo Torre finds out. They do everything from potential insurance fraud to an investigation of Magic Johnson's Twitter account. And then somehow, the two of them come together.

• 14:34Pablo Torre?

  Finally, finally, they overlap in all of his tweets about the Dodgers, a couple of which also happen to be in the folder in front of you.

• 14:43Speaker 04

  On November 2nd, 2025, Magic tweeted a bunch of trophies.

• 14:47Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 14:48Speaker 04

  Let me count them, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. Sorry, do we know how, is it his total trophy count?

• 14:54Pablo Torre?

  I believe it is, in fact.

• 14:55Speaker 04

  His 18 trophies?

• 14:56Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, I mean, that's explained in the next tweet, incidentally.

• 14:59Speaker 04

  Sorry.

• 15:00Pablo Torre?

  Which you have in front of you.

• 15:01Speaker 04

  Which says, "18 championship rings for me. NCAA championship with MSU, 11 Lakers, 5 playing, 5 as an owner and 1 as an executive, 1 LA Sparks, 1 LAFC, 1 Team Liquid."

• 15:12Pablo Torre?

  That's an esports team, not a communion brand for the whole story we're talking about.

• 15:17Speaker 04

  And now 3 with the Dodgers.

• 15:18Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, this was all after the Dodgers won that second straight World Series last November. But to the employees, the actual people inside of Guggenheim Partners, Sam, which is Mark Walter's investment and advisory financial services firm, it was always clear that the actual controlling owner of the Dodgers was, in fact, their boss, Mark Walter himself, in part because the Dodgers were part of Walter's recruiting pitch for his company, as one former Guggenheim insider, an attorney who agreed to talk to me on the condition of anonymity due to the ongoing federal investigation, explained.

• 15:56Speaker 07

  "In 2014, I was working in compliance at a hedge fund, and I got a call from the compliance officer, who I'd worked with at a previous firm, and she basically described her new role and mentioned that the job was pretty tough, that, you know, these people over there were a very different breed than what she's used to. The people who she was responsible for working with were billionaires. She was looking for somebody who had my kind of experience, looking at things forensically. I was an auditor in my past, you know, with money laundering expertise, where you're diving in and you're trying to understand financial transactions and who's at the bottom of things. So that's how I got my start, working at Guggenheim Partners."

• 16:39Pablo Torre?

  This source, under voice modulation, I should also add, brought decades of experience in compliance to Guggenheim when they got hired. But this job, the new job that they got, had another particularly difficult dimension to it because they had to help build a compliance program for Guggenheim from scratch.

• 17:01Speaker 07

  Initially, we did not know the real reason, you know, we were just hired to do this, and no one really told us, but then we came to understand there was this SEC investigation while we were hired into Todd Bowley borrowing $50 million from one of the clients. That client was Michael Milken, who was famous for some of the insider trading back in the 80s. Those cases resulted in a $20 million fine. As part of that settlement, Guggenheim agreed to create this group, that was the group that we were there for. So we're designing this program. Part of it is to make sure people like Mark Walter, Todd Bowley, do not borrow money

• 17:45Speaker 07

  from clients. Guggenheim did not have your typical client base, high net worth or businesses. Their client base were primarily insurance companies. There was Equitrust, there was Security Benefit, Delaware Life, those were the clients."

• 18:01Speaker 04

  Pablo, we were supposed to tell this story in a digestible way. Now we're on insurance companies.

• 18:06Pablo Torre?

  Sports fans can learn to love compliance.

• 18:08Speaker 04

  And compliance, we're on Michael Milken.

• 18:11Pablo Torre?

  The junk bond king of the 80s.

• 18:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, who took a plea deal, admitting to securities fraud and reporting violations, but not officially insider trading, to be clear.

• 18:19Pablo Torre?

  And at this point, I can just hear people begin to glaze over because I get it, but I just need to assure people, Sam, that the journey we're about to go on here, that yes, involves everybody from the Dodgers and Magic Johnson to the Lakers and LeBron James. This journey is going to simplify what does seem admittedly quite complicated.

• 18:40Speaker 04

  That's the thing about these kinds of stories, these kinds of arrangements. They are often intentionally inscrutable. It's very hard to understand what's happening because billionaires are very good at making LLCs and entities and making money flow in a way that's much less direct than you sending money to your friend on Venmo, but it's not actually that different.

• 19:06Pablo Torre?

  No.

• 19:07Speaker 04

  It's actually people paying money to other people to get something in return. And what these people got in return in this story, why this matters, is that this story helps explain why Mark Walter sold the Lakers just a year after buying the team. It helps explain how Magic Johnson got caught up in a news cycle about potential insurance fraud.

• 19:29Pablo Torre?

  And why Magic Johnson should be concerned, based on the new findings we're about to share here today, about the federal government's ongoing investigation.

• 19:38Speaker 04

  It helps explain what happens to your everyday investments, what happens when you buy a life insurance policy, what happens with every single one of those dollars between when you pay and when you get that money back. And the truth is in the background, billionaires are doing all kinds of creative things with your money that we will explain in this episode if you stick with us.

• 20:19Pablo Torre?

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• 22:02Pablo Torre?

  So, one thing I realized after spending the last few weeks talking to our compliance attorney source is that their job at Guggenheim, as mandated by Mark Walter's SEC settlement, wasn't quite set up to succeed.

• 22:17Speaker 07

  We kind of realized that the culture at Guggenheim Partners is totally bowing to these people. Mark Walter, Todd Bowley, these are billionaires. And now I have to create something that stops them. So, wow, our little role here is, you know, a couple of hundred grand compliance offices is to try to put ourselves in the middle of that? Like, okay, this is not going to be easy.

• 22:41Pablo Torre?

  And it wasn't easy, even when a transaction smelled like bullshit.

• 22:48Speaker 07

  This transaction that came in late 2015, in December, this one really looked strange. And it was a $100 million loan. And the other piece to it is, there was pressure. There was a lot of pressure on this one. They needed the money fast. Instead of giving us documentation on who beneficial owners are, they would give us charts, very crude charts that you could make on like a PowerPoint type thing. Our policies and procedures that we were developing were like, no, we can't just rely on some handwritten chart that somebody owns and empty. Literally, there were handwritten charts at some point.

• 23:25Pablo Torre?

  And at first, the compliance department tried pushing back on these weird charts, requesting more documentation and further disclosure on this nine-figure transaction. But regrettably, according to our source, the compliance people gave in to what their bosses ultimately wanted, and they let the loan through.

• 23:48Speaker 07

  Whenever you compromise yourself and do something like that, you know it's eventually going to come back and haunt you. Because we just promised that to the SEC that we're going to stop this, which is ridiculous, actually, when you think about it. Because I was feeling pressure, and, you know, they paid really well. This was the upper echelons of any financial firm I had ever been with. People really wanted to be part of the team. Who wants to be the outsider there?

• 24:15Pablo Torre?

  Guggenheim's head of compliance, for the record, would tell the financial press that his department examined all the loans during this time period.

• 24:22Speaker 04

  That none were handled improperly and all had know-your-customer due diligence.

• 24:28Pablo Torre?

  But the reality of Guggenheim compliance, as our source explained it, it just can't be stressed enough here. The team that these insiders were all invited to be a part of was not only high-flying Guggenheim Partners, it was also the literal Los Angeles Dodgers. Which brings us to yet another source with a very good memory, who had to vet the most astonishing Mark Walter transaction of all. David Sampson, can you tell our audience what you were doing back in 2012?

• 25:02Speaker 07

  In 2012, I was the president of the Miami Marlins, one of 30 teams in Major League Baseball, one of the 30 teams who votes on all sorts of things, including any time a team is sold. And you get a memo written by the commissioner's office that explains every deal. But what's always more interesting at owners' meetings are the conversations that happen on the side of what is really going on. The Dodgers were in Chapter 11 bankruptcy back in 2012 because the owner was Frank McCourt, who was involved in a divorce from his wife, Jamie McCourt. They're arguing, figuring out how to split up assets, and baseball wanted to get out

• 25:46Speaker 07

  from under the McCourts. So, there was a sale process. There were several bidders. Mark Walter and Guggenheim were a bidder. The now-owner of the Mets, Stephen Cohn, Stan Kronke, was a bidder for the Dodgers. The result was that all three parties were right around the same number. Let's call it $1.5 billion.

• 26:13Pablo Torre?

  Had you heard of Mark Walter before he bid on the Dodgers?

• 26:16Speaker 07

  I had not. He didn't have a sports empire at that time. We assumed that Magic Johnson was a celebrity endorser. He's an icon in LA. It's like having a friend of the court. It's like walking around with the Pope.

• 26:28Speaker 04

  And Mark Walter definitely was walking around with Magic Johnson a lot. We spoke to a former Guggenheim employee who said sometimes Magic would just show up in the office.

• 26:36Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, and one of the people in those offices was our Guggenheim compliance attorney, who pointed out, wearing Magic Johnson as this brand and/or costume while entering the world of sports, kind of made sense.

• 26:48Speaker 07

  Mark Walter seemed very shy and quiet. Guy like Magic, everyone's going to gravitate towards, everyone's going to want to talk to. You never have to be the center of attention.

• 26:57Pablo Torre?

  But establishing sports credibility in Los Angeles was just step one. I think the most fascinating part of this story is what happened after all of those bids that Sampson mentioned came in around $1.5 billion.

• 27:10Speaker 07

  All three parties bidding for the Dodgers were in the same neighborhood. Then one day, we got information from baseball that a deal had been struck that we needed to approve, where the Dodgers would be sold for over $2 billion to Mark Walter and Guggenheim. The first question that everyone in the owners' room asks, what happened? The reason Mark Walter increased his bid for the Dodgers was that at the same time, Mark Walter and Guggenheim got a deal themselves from Major League Baseball, where they had

• 27:55Speaker 07

  a cap given to them of how much broadcast revenue would be subject to revenue sharing.

• 28:03Speaker 04

  Which essentially means that the MLB allowed the Dodgers to keep more of the money it was making from its TV rights deal, in exchange for Walter buying the team at a higher price.

• 28:16Pablo Torre?

  And that very special arrangement, you'd imagine, would be very infuriating to, say, the Miami Marlins.

• 28:23Speaker 07

  So why would we not be furious? What would be told to us by the commissioner that would make us say, oh, you know what? I understand why you're doing that deal. Hold on.

• 28:35Pablo Torre?

  And one big reason, it turns out, that David Sampson was not as mad about that deal was the sheer amount of broadcast revenue that Mark Walter's Dodgers were about to get in their new television deal. A regional television deal which would also set a record. And even if it was limited in terms of sharing, was still going to be a significant amount of revenue to share with, yes, the David Sampsons of the world.

• 29:03Speaker 04

  Yes, and right away, in December of 2012, shortly after being approved as the new owner of the Dodgers, voted in by the likes of the Marlins, Mark Walter starts a new limited liability company called American Media Productions LLC, which has precisely one publicly-known asset to this day. And it's a regional television channel, the exclusive home of Dodgers games in the Los Angeles market, with Vin Scully doing play-by-play. And it's named Sportsnet LA, which debuted in 2014.

• 29:34Pablo Torre?

  And so how much, Sam, did Sportsnet LA, owned by Mark Walter, agree to pay the Dodgers, also owned by Mark Walter, to broadcast Dodger games exclusively?

• 29:45Speaker 04

  Walter agreed to pay Walter $8.35 billion over 25 years.

• 29:52Speaker 07

  Oh, that's the impetus for the increased bid. It was all concurrent. It's not being reported correctly. People are thinking, because the TV deal started in 2014, that it was not thought about in April of 12. It makes me laugh. Like, all of a sudden, Mark Walter paid $2 billion for the Dodgers and said, hey, let's negotiate a TV deal. Give me a break.

• 30:17Pablo Torre?

  $334 million a year for a local rights deal in Major League Baseball?

• 30:24Speaker 07

  That's a tear in my eye.

• 30:25Pablo Torre?

  How does that compare to other regional TV deals?

• 30:28Speaker 07

  I negotiated my tushy off with.

• 30:32Speaker 07

  Fox to get 80.

• 30:35Pablo Torre?

  To this day, an average of $334 million a year, doing the math over the course of those 25 years, remains by far the largest regional sports television contract that there has ever been. Perhaps because, as you point out, Mark Walter was negotiating with Mark Walter. And yet, the sheer amount here was not even the most insane part, Sam, of this historic deal.

• 31:02Speaker 04

  Yes, because in addition to the deal between Mark Walter and Mark Walter, there was a third party involved here, and that's Time Warner Cable, which guaranteed the entire $8.35 billion, 25-year contract in the event that Sportsnet LA, also known as Time Warner Sportsnet LA, couldn't make their payment to the Dodgers. Time Warner essentially agreed to backstop the deal.

• 31:26Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 31:26Speaker 04

  Like Derek Jeter against the A's.

• 31:29Pablo Torre?

  Or your parents guaranteeing the purchase of your first apartment. As in, if Mark Walter could not come up with the money to pay Mark Walter that record-setting sum of TV money, Time Warner Cable would. And this part, I did not understand at all from the perspective of Time Warner Cable. And so, I once again turned to an MLB team president who was hoping to use this new Time Warner deal that the Dodgers got as precedent to extract a better offer from the Dodgers' previous television partner, Fox Sports.

• 32:02Speaker 07

  You're asking whether it makes sense what Time Warner did, and you're talking to someone who was in the room with Fox executives when news of this had come out like the day before, and the guy I was negotiating with looked at me and said, "Don't, don't, don't, David. Do not bring up the Time Warner deal. We're not using that as anything. That is an overpay that they're going to live to regret from the day they sign it. We're pissed that we lost the Dodgers, but we wouldn't have paid that, no chance."

• 32:32Pablo Torre?

  And yet, if you go to the LA Times, you can find this photo, I'm going to show it here, taken in February 2014. Because there is a grinning Magic Johnson, who with his right hand, if you look closely, is eating a handful of grapes off a paper plate with a Dodgers logo, and with his left head is giving a celebratory pound to a Time Warner executive who is wearing a blue suit and tie.

• 33:00Speaker 04

  A Dodgers blue suit and tie.

• 33:03Pablo Torre?

  But there was, as always with this story, yet another very important reason that Magic and Mark Walter and Team Guggenheim were celebrating.

• 33:14Speaker 04

  They were able to use that guaranteed $8.35 billion deal with Time Warner to offset the $2.15 billion Guggenheim paid for the Dodgers in the first place, as in the actual baseball team. All of which is to say, Mark Walter basically made money the second he bought the Dodgers.

• 33:34Pablo Torre?

  It was a win, win, win for Team Guggenheim, but there was, because there's no free lunch, a problem.

• 33:42Speaker 04

  Yes, usually when it seems like there's a bunch of free money, someone is in a tough spot. And in this case, Time Warner Cable Sports still had to figure out a way to fund their unprecedented TV contract with the Dodgers, which proved almost impossible for a time because Time Warner Sportsnet LA only aired in a third of the LA market. And all these other major pay TV operators, like the ones David Sampson was begging to make a deal with, they refused to carry this new channel, according to the Los Angeles Times, citing its hefty distribution fee. Which basically just means Time Warner paid a certain amount of money for the Dodgers' rights, and then they were going to try to charge the other channels some kind of profit,

• 34:27Speaker 04

  and those other channels were like, absolutely not.

• 34:31Pablo Torre?

  Which means that there was another loser worth considering in this story.

• 34:37Speaker 07

  The people who live in LA, 70% of the fans in LA lose. No one would pay the Dodgers' network the fee that the Dodgers' network was asking for.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  The struggle between Time Warner Cable and DirecTV and Dish and U-verse, I think basically they've said, "We're not paying." Time Warner Cable says, "We're not lowering the price." So if you're a Dodgers fan, good luck. You're probably out of luck this year.

• 34:56Pablo Torre?

  It's wild that this happened, for years. A majority of Dodger fans could not watch their favorite team because of the deal that enabled Mark Walter to own their favorite team. I just can't get over how long this blackout lasted.

• 35:13Speaker 04

  And you'd think that in a situation like this, things might start getting hairy for Mark Walter, the new owner of this team, who's got this entity with this giant TV rights deal, Time Warner Sportsnet LA. But less than two months after the channel's debut in February 2014, something fascinating happened. While the games were blacked out, someone provided a huge capital infusion to Time Warner Sportsnet LA and its parent company, American Media Productions, whose only known asset, again, is Sportsnet LA.

• 35:48Pablo Torre?

  And this part, and there's always another part in this story, I did not realize until we, along with your team of truth seekers at Hunter Brook Media, started examining a trove of insurance company financial statements. Because in your folder now, Sam, is this annual statement filed with the Arizona Department of Insurance, which shows that this special someone who came to help out Sportsnet LA was?

• 36:18Speaker 04

  Equitrust Life Insurance Company.

• 36:21Pablo Torre?

  Which you may recall as the very sexy-sounding company that our insider was talking about earlier. And down on page 93 of Equitrust's financial statement, down near the bottom of the page, there's a table full of loans that Equitrust has made. You will see what other name, Sam.

• 36:41Speaker 04

  American Media Productions LLC.

• 36:45Pablo Torre?

  AKA AMP, AKA Mark Walter's company that owned Time Warner Sportsnet LA. And when these loans were made, Sam, on April 25, 2014, when Equitrust was using the payments from America's parents and grandparents to loan AMP this money, how much money did they loan?

• 37:07Speaker 04

  A combined total of $350 million.

• 37:12Pablo Torre?

  And so it's probably important that we now point out who the owner of Equitrust Life Insurance Company was as of this date, April 25, 2014.

• 37:22Speaker 04

  As of April 25, 2014, Equitrust's owner was Mark Walter's Guggenheim Partners.

• 37:29Pablo Torre?

  And was this transaction disclosed as an affiliate transaction by either side here?

• 37:36Speaker 04

  No, even though either side is the same side.

• 37:41Pablo Torre?

  Making this yet another apparent example of the kind of alleged self-dealing that the federal government has been interested in, raising the question of how Mark Walter justified this lack of discretion. Which does seem now potentially relevant to the ongoing federal investigation, raising a question for us of, how did Mark Walter justify this lack of disclosure?

• 38:08Speaker 04

  Unfortunately, his company has not responded to Hunter Brook's repeated requests for comment.

• 38:14Pablo Torre?

  And they have not responded to ours either. But what we did find is a press release, Sam. This is from one month before the launch of Sportsnet LA. We are now in January of 2014, and this press release is from the governor of Illinois.

• 38:35Speaker 04

  Quote, "Governor Pat Quinn today joined Equitrust Life Insurance Company to announce that the company is opening new offices in Illinois that will create 200 jobs in the coming year. Equitrust also announced that Irvin Johnson is becoming a controlling shareholder of the company."

• 38:52Pablo Torre?

  Oh yeah, just BT dubs. Magic Johnson is going to be controlling the life insurance company that Mark Walter's AMP would soon be borrowing $350 million from. Which takes us to an article from Forbes, Sam, that's been waiting in your folder because this also meant what?

• 39:12Speaker 04

  Magic Johnson is now a billionaire. Quote, "Equitrust is now the biggest asset in the Magic Johnson Enterprises portfolio, and with Johnson as its majority owner, and it represents just how far he's come as a businessman."

• 39:26Pablo Torre?

  Do we know how much Magic Johnson paid to acquire Equitrust?

• 39:31Speaker 04

  We do not. And the deal, for the record, was not completed until June 24, 2015.

• 39:36Pablo Torre?

  And so, if you're now wondering, as we're in 2015, how much the business of Time Warner Sportsnet LA was losing that same year, the answer, reportedly, was more than $100 million a year.

• 39:51Speaker 04

  Sounds like a great time for Magic Johnson's life insurer, or Mark Walter's life insurer, to give them hundreds of millions of dollars.

• 39:58Pablo Torre?

  And 2015, for those scoring at home, was also, incidentally, the year when Todd Bowley, Walter's partner, aforementioned co-owner of the Dodgers...

• 40:07Pablo Torre?

  Left Guggenheim, and he did not respond to a request for comment. And so just to recap, our new reporting here, Sam, for those who do not find insurance quite as sexy as you and I do, Equitrust, which is this life insurance company, was being sold by Mark Walter to Magic Johnson, his fellow Dodgers co-owner, and it was also loaning $350 million to Mark Walter's media company, the media company he had started to pay his and Magic's Dodgers an average of $334 million a year through this record-setting

• 40:45Pablo Torre?

  local TV deal that Mark Walter gave to Mark Walter. And in the process, Magic Johnson transformed into a billionaire.

• 40:56Speaker 04

  I have to ask Pablo, what did your inside source in the compliance department of Mark Walter's Guggenheim say about this deal?

• 41:03Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 41:04Speaker 04

  Was the sale of Equitrust from Guggenheim to Magic Johnson approved by legal? Was the loan from Equitrust to the Dodgers TV station approved by legal? Were the terms deemed fair?

• 41:14Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, I mean, it's a very good question. And so I asked our compliance attorney at Guggenheim, who was ostensibly doing the KYC reviews.

• 41:22Speaker 04

  To know your client due diligence.

• 41:23Pablo Torre?

  Would your group have been asked to do a KYC on Magic or on that deal for Equitrust or no?

• 41:31Speaker 07

  No, we did not. No, we did not. We did not. No one saw that. That probably should have been something that was escalated internally and cleared. Why wouldn't you? Like, that's what our group was designed to do, to, you know, just to clear any kind of conflict or transaction. So probably should have been.

• 41:50Pablo Torre?

  Do you have a sense as to what the primary motivation would be for why Mark Walter sold Equitrust to Magic Johnson?

• 41:58Speaker 07

  I think that Magic Johnson helped him out with the Dodgers deal. That's what I ultimately thought. They're trying to help out a friend, you know, give him a level of wealth that maybe he didn't have before.

• 42:10Pablo Torre?

  Right.

• 42:10Speaker 07

  Equitrust put him on the map of being a billionaire, which was a massive increase for him.

• 42:15Pablo Torre?

  Right. That's an incredible friend to have.

• 42:17Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 42:18Pablo Torre?

  I don't know how many friends they've ever been on the planet that have effectively gifted, transacted an entire insurance company to someone else.

• 42:27Speaker 07

  None of my friends ever gave me one.

• 42:29Pablo Torre?

  And so what we did, Sam, was we took these allegations from this insider at Guggenheim Compliance to Mark Walter's company, and they did not reply. We reached out to Magic Johnson. His spokesperson did not respond to our request for comment. But there was another entity, of course, that we had to go request comment from, and that entity, I think, is the most inexplicable of all of the characters we've discussed so far.

• 42:57Speaker 04

  And that's Time Warner Cable. Everybody acted kind of rationally here if they wanted to make a lot of money, except for Time Warner Cable, which made a deal that on day one looked bat crazy.

• 43:09Pablo Torre?

  And in fact, before day one, in 2012, Fox expressed that same view. Before the team was officially sold to Mark Walter and Guggenheim and Magic Johnson, in court, Fox sought written affirmation as the previous rights holder for the Dodgers games that Time Warner Cable Incorporated, or an affiliate, is not part of the group buying the equity interest of the Dodgers. And Fox also sought affirmation that the buyer, Mark Walter and Guggenheim, had not already made formal or informal agreements with Time Warner Cable or any other media outlet for a new contract.

• 43:48Speaker 04

  To be clear, this is Time Warner Cable's competitor being like, this makes no sense. And the Dodgers, according to the LA Times, ultimately did provide Fox with both of those affirmations that they requested.

• 44:02Pablo Torre?

  Although David Sampson, once again, for the record, remembers it quite differently.

• 44:06Speaker 07

  People are thinking because the TV deal started in 2014 and was announced in January of 2013, that it was not thought about in April of 2012. It makes me laugh.

• 44:18Pablo Torre?

  But a funny thing happened when we went to go look for comment from the Time Warner executive who was responsible for this deal. This is David Rohn, who was the president of Time Warner Cable Sports at the time.

• 44:32Speaker 04

  David Rohn, of course, being the same executive, we saw smiling and fist bumping Magic Johnson in that photo of the grapes in the LA Times when they launched Sportsnet LA in 2014.

• 44:43Pablo Torre?

  This is the man in the Dodger blue suit, whose comment, it turns out, would prove difficult to obtain, Sam, for a particularly relevant reason.

• 44:52Speaker 04

  Because David Rohn, who brokered this big TV deal, the biggest in history of its kind, he has since, perhaps unsurprisingly, left Time Warner.

• 45:03Pablo Torre?

  And where did David Rohn wind up going?

• 45:06Speaker 04

  David Rohn was hired by none other than Mark Walter's Guggenheim Partners as a senior managing director, serving as the, quote, "company-wide head of strategy." This despite, according to the Financial Times, him having, quote, "no direct investment management experience."

• 45:28Pablo Torre?

  Which is all to say that David Rohn, in so many words, officially became part of the team.

• 45:35Speaker 04

  Who wants to be an outsider?

• 45:36Pablo Torre?

  And the title that David Rohn now has at Guggenheim, you may not be shocked to learn, is managing partner.

• 45:42Speaker 04

  Not a bad place to land after making what seemed to be one of the worst TV deals of all time from Time Warner's perspective, a deal so bad Time Warner had to report it in its filings repeatedly as a real risk to its business before Time Warner eventually sold to Charter Communications.

• 46:00Pablo Torre?

  But there was some good news for Time Warner Cable, which had, again, guaranteed the full length of this more than $8 billion deal to the Dodgers, which is that American Media Productions, they got that loan from Equitrust for $350 million from Mark Walter's life insurer.

• 46:19Speaker 04

  Yes, and it wasn't the only Mark Walter-linked life insurer to give a loan to American Media Productions. In total, according to the author Nick Nemeth of the Mispriced Assets Substack, who reviewed some even more sexy bond filings, there were four other life insurers tied to Walter, who loaned a grand total of $1.45 billion to American Media Productions, which provides some cushion for Time Warner before it needs to guarantee the proverbial first apartment on that deal.

• 46:53Pablo Torre?

  And so we had lots of questions, of course, for David Rohn and for Time Warner about all of these payments. But when we asked about how we felt about the deal for Time Warner Sportsnet LA that infuriated these other teams, about any of these conflicts of interest potentially, about whether his deal-making with the Dodgers influenced his eventual landing spot with Mark Walter at Guggenheim, he did not respond. Not over LinkedIn, where I sent him messages, and a spokesperson for Guggenheim Partners did not respond either.

• 47:24Speaker 04

  But Rohn did say way back in 2013 that the deal, quote, "furtheres our efforts to attain greater certainty and control over local and regional sports programming costs."

• 47:35Pablo Torre?

  The collapse of regional sports television aside, which is a larger story, perhaps a sequel to this saga, I do want to take us back to the present tense. Because it is worth noting, Sam, that veteran sports business journalist John Orand recently reported something kind of perfect, which is now maybe a bit of a coda to this part of the story that we have since confirmed, which is that before Mark Walter agreed to sell the Lakers to Josh Kusher and Bob Iger, the whole deal that kicked off the news cycle that got us interested in this in the first place, Mark Walter first tried to do something else. He approached the company, which now owns Time Warner Cable and thus Sportsnet LA's

• 48:18Pablo Torre?

  multi-billion dollar albatross of a deal with the Dodgers, this is Charter Communications, and Walter offered to terminate that beautiful television contract early, even though it runs through 2038, if Charter would just give him a lump sum payment right now.

• 48:38Speaker 04

  Unfortunately for Walter, according to that reporting, those talks went nowhere, and that's when Walter decided he would sell the Lakers for $12.5 billion instead.

• 48:49Pablo Torre?

  Although Dodgers president and co-owner Stan Casten has repeatedly told reporters, quote, "The Lakers sale had nothing to do with the Dodgers. It has not impacted the Dodgers and is not going to impact the Dodgers."

• 49:03Speaker 04

  With Mark Walter's company also adding last week in part, quote, "The allegation that the Los Angeles Dodgers were acquired or have been funded improperly is false and not supported by the facts. The Dodgers transaction was subject to significant scrutiny and complied with all rules and regulations that govern the purchase of Major League Baseball teams." End quote.

• 49:21Pablo Torre?

  Which brings us to one last question for our friend David Sampson, who was a part of Major League Baseball's own scrutiny and compliance process with Mark Walter. Do you think any part of Bud Selig, the commissioner of baseball, any part of you and your fellow owners feels a little silly, given that maybe this all wasn't exactly how it was presented?

• 49:48Speaker 07

  I would do it again and twice on Sunday. Well, silly. It's the opposite. It was the springboard from which these amazing valuations have come. If you asked Bud and he were honest with you, he would tell you that his main job was not the fans, it wasn't the players. His main job was to increase the value of the 30 teams. And he did it with this deal that was cut with Mark Walter. If the Dodgers sell for $2 billion, you get to walk into the bank and say, look what the Marlins are worth right now.

• 50:23Pablo Torre?

  And Bud Selig, for what it's worth, did tell The Athletic that he does not recall whether he was concerned at the time about all of this insurance money flying around.

• 50:32Speaker 04

  Which is to say, nobody was mad at Mark Walter and Magic Johnson for allegedly making these deals with Mark Walter and Magic Johnson, because that deal meant everyone who owned an MLB team was richer.

• 50:47Pablo Torre?

  Yes. It is the same reason why Adam Silver and NBA owners, several of whom we have investigated together, are incredibly excited that Mark Walter's Lakers just sold for $12.5 billion dollars.

• 51:02Speaker 04

  I don't know what's going to happen to people's insurance policies. I hope that they're okay. But I do take comfort going to sleep at night, knowing that the billionaires are even richer because of Mark Walter.

• 51:14Pablo Torre?

  Thank God.

• 51:15Speaker 04

  I'll drink to that.

• 51:25Pablo Torre?

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• 52:10Pablo Torre?

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• 53:23Pablo Torre?

  But the story is not over yet, Sam, because while all these billionaires who own sports teams are thrilled about all of these developments, the question of how Magic Johnson himself has been operating a life insurance company, the thing that Forbes pointed out is the biggest asset in his portfolio, the thing that made him a billionaire, that question remains interesting to both our Guggenheim compliance source, as well as, it seems, the federal government.

• 53:52Speaker 04

  Yes, and I want to start by saying, Magic Johnson did not run Equitrust alone. To be the president and CEO of Equitrust, Magic entrusted and appointed one of his closest friends, a guy named Eric Holloman, who, before getting into the life insurance business, was the president of a company called Magic Johnson Enterprises.

• 54:12Pablo Torre?

  And if you're a fan of the WNBA, you may recognize him also as the governor of Mark Walter's WNBA team, the L.A. Sparks.

• 54:20Speaker 04

  This is Magic's guy.

• 54:22Pablo Torre?

  And I know that because if you go to at Magic Johnson over on Twitter, you can pour over his many exclamation points to see that he has mentioned Eric Holloman at least 20 times that we saw.

• 54:34Speaker 04

  Including two tweets about how Magic brought Holloman to hang out at the White House, a decade apart, including as Magic's plus one when he won the Presidential Medal of Freedom from Donald Trump alongside Denzel Washington.

• 54:48Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, quote, "I want to congratulate my great friend Denzel Washington on receiving his Presidential Medal of Freedom today as well," is just a great humble brag. The kind that we've come to appreciate from at Magic Johnson, which has, by the way, likewise tweeted about Equitrust more than a dozen times with commentary such as, quote, "I want to introduce my team at Equitrust to the world!" exclamation mark, end quote.

• 55:15Speaker 04

  It wasn't some kind of secret that he owned a life insurer, and for that matter, it wasn't a secret that he was tight with Mark Walter, who he also tweeted about again and again and again.

• 55:26Pablo Torre?

  Yes, the guy who sold Equitrust to Magic in the first place, bringing us to this tweet in your folder, Sam, from the same month that the FBI seized Walter's phone and laptop.

• 55:39Speaker 04

  "I'm excited about the new L.A. Sparks state-of-the-art practice facility, which will be the best in all of the WNBA. I want to congratulate my Sparks partner and new Lakers owner, Mark Walter, as well as my business partner, Eric Holloman, for making this dream facility come to fruition."

• 55:55Pablo Torre?

  Just three months before this tweet, speaking of dream facilities, Walter had announced, you may recall, that he was buying the Lakers at that record-setting $10 billion valuation, which Magic, yes, also tweeted about.

• 56:09Speaker 04

  Quote, "Lakers fans should be ecstatic. A few things I can tell you about Mark. He's driven by winning, excellence, and doing everything the right way, and he will put in the resources needed to win."

• 56:21Pablo Torre?

  But in terms of what you can tell us, Sam, about how Equitrust did things, what resources they were using to win, what did the insurance filings tell you when you poured over them in terms of their SEC disclosure?

• 56:36Speaker 04

  My team looked through all of these filings and found an insurance company that seemed to resemble Mark Walter's approach. We found one example, for instance, where Equitrust had made an investment in an entity called JLC. And then when you look up JLC, you see that it's an infrastructure-focused investment business where Magic Johnson is a co-owner and Holloman is a managing director. That's insurance money from Magic Johnson's insurer going into a totally separate investment fund run by Magic Johnson and Holloman. It's all one big Spider-Man meme.

• 57:08Pablo Torre?

  Which feels very obviously affiliated, in other words.

• 57:12Speaker 04

  It sure seems affiliated, but if you look at Equitrust 2025 annual statement, just like its prior statements, it places JLC positions in the unaffiliated section and reports no affiliated invested assets in the relevant totals. And the reason this all matters, Pablo, isn't because like we love regulations and rules and disclosures, it's because when you buy an insurance policy, it's a contract, one that says if anything happens to you, your loved ones will be all right. That's sacred, and you want to make sure that between now and then, your insurer isn't taking that trust and using it to enrich themselves through a totally separate business.

• 57:51Pablo Torre?

  This is ostensibly what the federal government would be interested in, and yet as Magic's personal responsibility here is concerned, I do think it is important for us to note, near the end here, another note about Equitrust Life Insurance Company.

• 58:08Speaker 04

  Which is that as of last November, amid this ongoing federal investigation, Magic did something else reminiscent of Mark Walter. He stopped being the controlling owner of Equitrust.

• 58:21Pablo Torre?

  When you look at the documents, you see very clearly that last November, Equitrust was sold to another company called Amistad Financial, which is notable if you follow finance, because right now, according to the Wall Street Journal, Amistad Financial is one of the four entities linked to Mark Walter that have been caught up in the DOJ and SEC investigation into Guggenheim Partners that we've been talking about this entire time. And who is in charge of Amistad, Sam?

• 58:53Speaker 04

  Amistad's managing founder is Eric Holloman, Magic's right-hand man.

• 58:58Pablo Torre?

  And what was that transaction like? How much did Holloman pay to Magic for Equitrust?

• 59:04Speaker 04

  There's not that much known about how exactly this purchase went down, how much, if any, of Equitrust Magic Johnson still owns. What we do know is that Amistad took out a big loan to be able to buy Equitrust, and that Fitch, the ratings agency, downgraded Equitrust's outlook to negative after this transaction.

• 59:24Pablo Torre?

  And so what does this mean then for Magic's exposure in terms of the federal government?

• 59:30Speaker 04

  It's a little bit unclear, but what we do know is that the entity formerly known as Equitrust Magic Johnson's Insurance Company is now part of an insurance company being actively probed by the Department of Justice. That's run by Magic Johnson's best friend, Eric Holloman.

• 59:48Pablo Torre?

  And so we, of course, reached out to Magic about this part as well and got nothing back from his rep.

• 59:55Speaker 04

  None of these people are talking. We did not get anything from Holloman either, or Amistad for that matter.

• 1:00:02Pablo Torre?

  But I do want to note here, just briefly, something about the name Amistad, because I do think, for people who maybe are familiar with the Steven Spielberg movie, there are some profound meanings that one might infer. One of them, of course, refers to the historic slave revolt that took place on a Spanish ship named the Amistad and the subsequent historic 19th century U.S. Supreme Court case about the freedom of those very brave men. But the other meaning, more literally, is, in Spanish, friendship.

• 1:00:35Speaker 04

  And it's certainly a great act of friendship, to buy your friends' life insurance at a time when it may or may not be under the scrutiny of the Department of Justice. And you'd think, given the scale of this transaction, it seems like Amistad raised $3 billion of debt, in part to buy Equitrust. You'd think that Magic Johnson might celebrate this transaction, the transaction that made him a billionaire. But despite the fact that he tweets about almost every single thing in his life, the sale of Equitrust was not mentioned by @MagicJohnson once.

• 1:01:12Pablo Torre?

  Which is conspicuous, given how often he tweeted about Equitrust and Eric Holloman previously, one might say.

• 1:01:19Speaker 04

  Conspicuous indeed.

• 1:01:21Pablo Torre?

  Which leaves us wondering, rightfully, I think, about the people who entrusted their money to Equitrust and Amistad and Magic Johnson and Eric Holloman and Mark Walter. Because these people are the ones who helped enable these billionaires to financially re-engineer this booming sports landscape.

• 1:01:40Speaker 04

  And by these people, Pablo means you. The ordinary Americans whose money has been used to help fund the purchases of these sports teams as they've gotten ever more expensive.

• 1:01:52Pablo Torre?

  And the question that we need to then ask as we assess the risk of these investments is, what if all of this, given how we understand Mark Walter boosted the prices of these teams, what if all of this is also taking the shape of a bubble? As our compliance attorney source explains.

• 1:02:13Speaker 07

  So it's amazing that this entire system is built on retail investors. So they have an entire retail investor base in these life insurance policies. They've got a constant cash flow into their insurance companies from, like, John Q. Public or parents that buy annuities and life insurance policies. Ultimately, that's what's feeding all this. That's why the government, state government regulators, are so concerned. They're trying to protect the public, who have these life insurance policies and annuities, from one day holding the bag. Because in the end, these insurance companies, and we've seen this in the past, well, what if everything goes wrong and they blow themselves out? They just go bankrupt. That's what rich people do.

• 1:02:55Speaker 07

  They just go bankrupt and leave the individual people, the policyholders. In the end, they're taking money from retail investors and that's the money ultimately that's being invested and funneled into these loans. That's who gets screwed.

• 1:03:11Speaker 04

  OK, fine. This maybe is not actually a sexy story.

• 1:03:14Pablo Torre?

  But there is screwing.

• 1:03:15Speaker 04

  There is screwing. Someone is getting screwed over here. And it's not Magic Johnson and it's not Mark Walter. It's potentially the ordinary Americans whose money is being invested in the billionaire versions of Szechuan fish stew soup dumpling restaurants.

• 1:03:35Pablo Torre?

  And as the federal government is chasing down that smell, we are in late July. This is after the news first broke about the investigation into Guggenheim Partners. And something amazing happens on television, which is that the man who avoided being the center of attention for so long, Mark Walter, decides to visit the man who has always embraced it.

• 1:04:02Speaker 04

  Does this man happen to live in the same house Magic Johnson has visited repeatedly with his business partner, Eric Holloman?

• 1:04:09Pablo Torre?

  Not only that, Mark Walter brought to this very special house a very special gift.

• 1:04:16Speaker 05

  Thank you. Wow.

• 1:04:17Pablo Torre?

  Oh, that looks good.

• 1:04:21Speaker 05

  We'd like to present this to you as a... Oh, wow. honorary? Oh, you have to be kidding, huh? Wow. Do I have to report this? I don't want to report this. That's beautiful. Thank you very much. It's got your name on it, so it's only worth it to do. That's right. That's really good.

• 1:04:45Pablo Torre?

  There is Donald Trump wondering if he needs to disclose that he now owns a Dodgers World Series ring, which led me to ask our source about that video.

• 1:04:58Speaker 07

  In my opinion, it was like, wow, he's really being called to the mat. Can you imagine what that conversation was like? It's just been announced that he's under investigation by the Southern District of New York, which is being run by a guy by the name of Jay Clayton, who is now like the head of the intelligence service for our entire country. And you know, love or hate Trump, people come to kiss his ring, right? That's it. I mean, here, you come to give him a ring and then kiss it, right? So it was like, it was pretty unbelievable, actually.

• 1:05:25Pablo Torre?

  For what it's worth, Sam, nobody I have talked to in the world of sports can remember the owner of a professional sports team awarding a championship ring to a president at the White House ceremony itself, which, in retrospect, at least to me, seems something like an invitation for Trump to do something that Magic Johnson and Eric Holloman and David Rohn and even our voice-modulated compliance attorney source at Guggenheim had all done before, to varying degrees of regret.

• 1:05:57Speaker 04

  It seemed like an invitation to be part of the team.

• 1:06:10Pablo Torre?

  Pablo Torre Finds Out is produced by Walter Avaroma, Maxwell Carney, Ryan Cortez, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neely Lohman, Rob McCray, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor, and Chris Tumanello. Studio engineering by RG Systems. Sound design by Andrew Bersick. Digital strategy by Bailey Carlin and Andrew Northern. Theme song, as always, by John Bravo. With additional reporting for this episode by J.D. Jean Jacques, Vikas Kumar, and Matthew Termini. You can read much more, by the way, over at 100Brook Media's site. That is h n t r b r k dot com. And our team will talk to you next time.