X Mayo on Discipline, Christianity, and Practicing Stoicism in Hollywood

Ryan talks to actress and comedian X Mayo about the difference between discipline and passion, the common misconception of Stoics as unfeeling and unemotional, how Stoicism relates to Christianity, the importance of being content to be thought clueless about some things, and more. X Mayo is an actor, writer, producer, comedian, and taco expert. Landing in NYC in 2013 with just 80 Dollars and A Suitcase, X has survived over 24 moves to now being an Emmy Nominated writer for The Daily Show With Trevor Noah. X is the Creator and Host of Who Made The Potato Salad? a comedy show/party made in 24 hours that only stars black people and people of color. You can catch X in the second season of, "Yearly Departed," and in the hit NBC sitcom, "American Auto."Our Daily Stoic Leatherbound Editions are back in stock! The Daily Stoic is the first collection of all the Stoics in centuries and the only book to ever put them in a page-a-day format—366 days of the best Stoic quotes, insights, and exercises. You can get your copy signed and personalized as well! Join Daily Stoic Life now! As a member of Daily Stoic Life, you get all our current and future courses, 100+ additional Daily Stoic email meditations, 4 live Q&As with bestselling author Ryan Holiday (and guests), and 10% off your next purchase from the Daily Stoic Store. Sign up at https://dailystoic.com/life/ As a participant in Daily Stoic’s Stoicism 101: Ancient Philosophy For Your Actual Life, you’ll not only learn all you need to know about Stoicism, you’ll learn it from one of the world’s foremost thinkers and writers on ancient philosophy and its place in everyday life! Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: https://dailystoic.com/dailyemailCheck out the Daily Stoic Store for Stoic inspired products, signed books, and more. Follow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, FacebookFollow X Mayo: Homepage, Twitter, InstagramSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. 📢 Share | ⚙️ Manage Subscription

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Ryan Holiday?

  Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoic. Each weekday, we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics, something to help you live up to those four Stoic virtues of courage, justice, temperance, and wisdom. And then here on the weekend, we take a deeper dive into those same topics. We interview Stoic philosophers. We explore at length how these Stoic ideas can be applied to our actual lives and the challenging issues of our time. Here on the weekend, when you have a little bit more space, when things have slowed down, be sure to take some time to think, to go for a walk, to sit with your journal,

• 0:46Ryan Holiday?

  and most importantly, to prepare for what the week ahead may bring. Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. This was way back in September. I got an email from Bird Lovell, an agent that I've worked with, going back, I don't know, 12, 13 years. I've known him since I was in college through another writer that I worked with. Anyways, Bird is someone I've done a lot of ghostwriting projects with, and he's now one of the biggest agents in all of publishing. And he shot me an email. He said, "Hey, I was just on the phone." He works at UTA, and he was like, "I was just on the phone

• 1:30Ryan Holiday?

  with an up-and-coming UTA client." And he's like, "She kept talking about Stoicism. I asked her if she knew of your stuff." And he was like, "She did." And he said, "I couldn't wait to introduce you to you." And he asked if I'd like to talk to her. And that's how I got connected with today's guest, X Mayo.

• 1:54Ryan Holiday?

  Actress, comedian, producer, self-proclaimed taco expert. She hails from South Central Inglewood, California. She ended up in New York City in 2013 with literally $80 and a suitcase. And 24 moves later, she is an Emmy nominated writer for The Daily Show with Trevor Noah. She's a creator and host of Who Made the Potato Salad, a comedy show and party that's made in 24 hours that stars only black people and people of color. And you can catch X on the second season of yearly Departed and the new hit NBC sitcom American Auto. We had an awesome conversation.

• 2:39Ryan Holiday?

  Her energy, you can tell, is just absolutely infectious. Again, there is this, there's a couple stereotypes about stoicism, right? One, that it's for men. Two, that it's white. And three, that it's dour and not any fun. And today's guest is a critical and very fun reminder that none of those three stereotypes need to have any basis in reality. And I've got to say, this was one of the most fun conversations I've ever had on the Daily Sto podcast. And you can listen to my interview now with X Mayo. You can go to her website at X, it's the letter X, M A Y O dot me.

• 3:23Ryan Holiday?

  And you can follow her on Instagram, at $80 and a suitcase. That's eight zero and then dollars and a suitcase. I think you're going to like this one. And I had a great time myself. I thought I'd start with this because it's, it's something I don't understand about your business at all. It's the thing that frustrates me the most about it. How do you manage? The insane timelines and lack of control over the business, right? Like, I feel like Hollywood is the slowest moving, but also fastest moving business in the world. Right? It's like, uh, one of my books got options to be a movie almost four years ago.

• 4:06Ryan Holiday?

  And I'm not sure it's any, people are supposedly working on it every day. Uh, and it's no further to like, I just, I, I, it frustrates me and it confuses me and baffles me. It makes me so grateful that I exist in a, in a field where I get to control what I do. Right? How do you deal with that sort of powerlessness day to day of like not being in control of the schedule and the pace of things?

• 4:34Speaker 01

  Um, well, I've been doing it a very long time, so I've just gotten used to the fact that, um, this shit's gonna happen whenever it's supposed to happen. And for somebody, um, for somebody like myself, I'm someone that does not wait. So my lack of patience really works for me in this industry. So it's just kinda like, okay, I know I have these projects and stuff like that, that you guys said that you're working on. And I'm gonna do my own shit. And if I still feel like there's no momentum moving here, I'm gonna move it on my own. Um, and get shit done on my, and get shit done myself. Yeah. But it is, the business really is hurry up and wait. That's like the name of the game.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  And as an actor, you learn very quickly that they literally pay you to wait, you act for free. We are, we are literally getting paid to wait. Like, we wait all day on set. And then you can't really, like, cause I'm a writer as well. So it's like, I can't really tap into that writer brain and get to fucking writing, because then they're gonna call you on set. And then, like, what if I'm on set and I have to, like, you know, play a fucking vampire? Like, you know, I gotta get into my vampire shit. You know, I can't be like, you know, jolly writing comedy and then just go like, ah, and become a vampire. Like, you gotta get into it. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's difficult, but I love it. It's difficult, but I truly do love it.

• 5:53Ryan Holiday?

  No, that's interesting, right? Because it's not just like, hey, we're gonna make this show, or we want you to be in this comedy, or whatever. And then everyone gets all excited, there's meetings about it, and, you know, it gets announced in the trades, and then shooting, shooting starts 18 months from that window, or whatever, right? There's that wait. But then, even when you're on set, you might be on set for 13 hours, and be on camera for 20 minutes.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  Yes. And, and you get paid a lot of money.

• 6:25Ryan Holiday?

  To wait?

• 6:27Speaker 01

  If you're lucky, you get paid a whole lot of money. I'm telling you, LeBron James was complaining about that on his show on HBO. He was just like, yeah, when he was shooting Space Jam, he was like, cuz I'm like him in the manner that, not that I can play basketball, I'm very bad, but I'm like him in the manner of, I am an efficient ass bitch. So I'm like, we need efficiency. I do this, then I do this, and I do that. He's like, there's so much shit I could have got done, this and that. It's like, yes, but we're waiting for Bugs Bunny to come to life on the green screen, so you have to wait, right?

• 6:58Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  And he's just like, the fuck? I could have played fucking six All-Star games, what the fuck is going on? It's like, yeah, that's literally the business. And now he's like, his, his, his movie is like stamped and imprinted for, on little children forever. Yeah.

• 7:14Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, like, I've written multiple books in the time it's taken to adapt and part this other book.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  I could just see you, Ryan, cuz you're like, so fucking efficient, you have so many damn books. I like, am so envious of you of how well and quickly that you write and get writing done. Because writing is like, it is like painful, annoying, lonely, annoying, it takes a lot of fucking time. And every time I listen to you, every fucking morning, Ryan, got another goddamn book. I said, goddamn it, Ryan. God damn it. Every fuck, every time I look up, "The boy who will be king, courage is God." I say, "God, you know what, Ryan? I'm gonna stop listening to you because you're making me feel like I'm not productive. Shit."

• 8:01Ryan Holiday?

  Well, well, how do you, how do you find a way to be productive in that time? Because I'm, I'm sure you're not just watching TV in your trailer. Like, how do you find, how do you use all that time where you're sitting around?

• 8:12Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, well, the thing is, is that like, well, because I'm an actor, writer and producer. So I have my own sketch comedy show, but it's also like a community resource hub for black and brown people called Who Made the Potato Salad? So I've been producing since I was 19. Then I started, I, I started writing and writing and producing my own plays at 19. So like, I have a lot of things that I want to do and I also want to like tap into the nonprofit space. And then I'm always like, you know, people reach out to me, which I'm very grateful and honored and humbled by to like mentor them. So there's always something for me to do, but I have like a strict calendar and I have like, this is when I'm on my dead time. Like there's, there's dead time that I can get this done. I can do this. I can do that.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  Like especially like with the thing that I'm writing now. It's like, okay, well, I can be doing my beat sheet right now. I can be doing this, you know, like, but then also Ryan, this whole fucking industry and all the opportunities you get is about relationships. So you can't just be tucked in your fucking trailer all day when you, when you need to be fostering relationships, right? Because now I'm privy to certain projects and certain things that are on the ground that I'm now being considered before, that I wouldn't have been if I wasn't talking to nobody. So you really have to find that like sweet, sweet spot.

• 9:30Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, because you could spend your whole day networking and meeting people and then you wouldn't have the material to go out and do stuff. But, and also if you just spent your time creating the material, it would exist in a vacuum. And the, the reality is there's already too much material out in the world. Uh, and so that balance is, I imagine, difficult.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  It is, it is, it was at first, but then it's not like I, um, am, well, I, I used to say that I'm an extrovert and then I got my own place. I was like, I don't know if I'm an extrovert or I just had roommates.

• 10:04Speaker 01

  I was fucking living in New York and I was always living with so many people and I was always out, out, out, out, out, like in New York, just out. And then I moved back home to LA and I got my own place and I'm like, leave. And we're in a goddamn pandemic, of course, but like even like, you know, the little safety ways that you can meet up and stuff like that. I'm just like, I actually just wanna look out the window in the sun to silence. Like, I don't want to fucking, but I was just saying that to speak to the point of like, it's very easy for me to like, balance it because I love people, I love meeting people, I truly, truly have a heart for people. Like, I fucking love people. I love talking to them, I can talk to anybody. I love crowds of

• 10:45Speaker 01

  a lot of people. And so I'm able to like, go out there and do that and then retreat and do my work. And because I give myself deadlines, that's how I'm able to do it. So I know if I've been like, networking a few days on set and like, being a little chatty Cathy, okay, these next couple of days, they won't think that like, oh, X is a bitch. Like, I was talking to you the first three days of the week. So Thursday and Friday, Friday, I can fucking be in the trailer, you know?

• 11:09Ryan Holiday?

  Well, I think that's, that's an interesting part. I, I guess maybe, maybe people can relate to it a little bit more now that the whole world is sort of on this work from home model. But one of the tough things I think about being a creative is like, no one is actually, no one actually cares if you do the work or not, right? So there's no one monitoring you to know whether you're like, staying at home, doing the hard, unpleasant, creative stuff that's ultimately the fuel for whatever your next project is. No one cares if you're practicing, no one cares if you're creating. And so you have to have this sort of, because there's no one disciplining you the way that a boss is like, hey, I need to see this by Friday, you have to be in charge

• 11:51Ryan Holiday?

  of your own life and your own schedule. And it's tough because as fun as creative work is, it's also really unpleasant.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Well, the thing is, is that I've always been, I've always been a crazy little bossy pants. Like since elementary school, I was like, why is everybody walking out at the same time during our graduation song? Like, we did Stomp, and I was like, okay, so I'm gonna rap, I'm gonna do Salt, and then you walk out first. Like, I was, I've always been, I had a one-woman show where I played every Spice Girl, and I made fake tickets. And sent them, gave them all to my mom's friends. I was like, and now I'm Baby Spice. It was very explicit. I was like, and now, sporty. Like, did no costumes, nothing. So I've always been, like, very focused, and I have a problem, Ryan, when I see something in my head, it has to come to fruition.

• 12:45Speaker 01

  You know how people talk to you like, oh yeah, Ryan, I got this million-dollar idea, I wanna do this fucking app, we can do this, this, and that. And you're like, okay, yeah. And they're like, yeah, just, yeah. And I'm like, well, you're not gonna do it? Like, there's nothing, so I know that there are people like me that have been touched, but I believe discipline is a skill. I believe anybody can be taught any fucking thing. But I think a lot of artists get it fucked up, and they think that your passion will automatically equate to discipline. And the discipline does not come, that discipline is sold separately, for real.

• 13:15Ryan Holiday?

  Oh, I totally, I totally agree. I was just saying this the other day. I believe that sort of talking about your work and doing your work fight for the same resources. So people who are like, I'm working on this, check this out. You know, I think that's what's so seductive about social media, is you can get credit from people for talking about your work, when really you have to do your work privately at home, right? Like, you have to put your ass in the chair and make the thing. That's very unsexy, and, and it's rewarding in its own way, but it's, you're not getting public validation from it until it's done. And so I, I've always been a big believer in just don't talk about it, be about it. Like, just, just do it, let the work speak for itself.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, people always say, yeah, in in two years, we'll see who's really working. Like, you know, like, it don't, it don't fucking matter like, and that's the thing, too. Because I'm such a doer, like, I know that a lot of people are dreamers. I was like, but don't just dream, do. I just posted that, um, a caption about that on my Instagram. Because I just feel like this whole manifestation, like, let me tell you. I know manifestation is real, but that that type of shit really pisses me off. Because I know a lot of motherfuckers that just just sit in the chair. And they're just like, yes, I'm manifesting, I manifest. I'm like, you're lazy, you're lazy and get thee behind me. Because I can't, I can't have that type of energy around me. You feel me, Ryan? Like, it's just not, it's it's just like, just do the fucking thing.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  And I think so many people like to ask me, like, X, so how did you do this? Because you know, I worked at The Daily Show and was blessed to be Emmy nominated. And now I'm on NBC on American Auto and I just did yearly departed. And, you know, I just wrapped on a movie. All these things that I've done now, Ryan, I'm thirty four. I've been auditioning since I was twelve, okay? So I've been at this a very long time. So when so many people, I'm like, it's just reps, you just get better. Like, I think if we looked at it like basketball, if you never would think that you would hop on a court and immediately be Kobe, right? You'd be like, that's insane, why would you think that? You're like, no, I need to do reps. And I think that's how I look at this industry as well. Like, I sucked, I was very bad at comedy for a very long time. And then it switched and then the light came on and I got good.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  Like, that was, that was it.

• 15:29Ryan Holiday?

  I think that is the really tricky thing about, uh, sort of what we do. And in that, like, you can't do your reps in private also, right? Like, you, uh, comedian can't practice in front of the mirror. You have to practice onstage where there's the element of it not going well. You can, you can really only get good in front of an audience. And so there is that uncomfortable part of like, are you willing to be bad at it in front of people? I think that that scares a lot of people off. They they either think they're already good and and they're not. Or they're they're so paralyzed by their desire for perfection that it prevents them from getting up and just like being good enough

• 16:14Ryan Holiday?

  for a long enough period of time that you are getting better from the reps.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  100% and I was bad in front of Trevor Noah. So you can imagine.

• 16:23Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  I literally would call my mom was like, I'm getting fired. Like I would say jokes because we would have what's called like a morning meeting. And Trevor had this shit that he like picked out that he wants to talk about. And our job as writers, you know, we just like pitch jokes or whatever and be like that. And when you pitch a joke and everybody's just like, okay. And, and mind you, people probably weren't even looking like that, but it's just like, I was so, like literally my voice would shake right in my heart is, but I'm like, I'm, I'm about to pitch a joke to somebody who does not need this. And, but it, but that's the reason why he has like 12, 13 fucking different writers. Cause we all bring something different, you know? And so it was just like, I, I literally would pitch jokes and it would fail.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  But after you fail in front of Trevor for so long, you're like an audience, like fine. I failed in front of like one of the highest grossing, most talented comedians in the world. So you like Marcy from Cleveland, fine. Yeah.

• 17:22Ryan Holiday?

  If you love reading the Daily Stoic, good news, the leather bound edition of the Daily Stoic is back in the Daily Stoic store. You can even get signed editions at store.dailystoic.com. Genuine leather cover, gilt edge pages, vinyl in sheets, uh, all sorts of awesome stuff, even some new illustrations and logos. Comes with a cool custom box. Check it out. Store.dailystoic.com.

• 17:50Ryan Holiday?

  Well, isn't that what, I, I feel like, uh, what's interesting about showbiz is that ego can be an asset in the sense like, if you don't, if you don't care, if you think you're so great, you know, it doesn't bother you that you're bombing. That's obviously one way to do it. I think it's a fragile way to do it. But what you actually cultivate, as you said, from bombing in front of Trevor Noah and then getting better as you do it, and then eventually getting stuff on air. What, what, what you take from that is confidence, which I think is important, right? You have to be like, I don't care what this lady thinks because I know, because I've done the work and I've, I've, I've seen it work. I know that the, the stuff is. Good. And I know you also have to get to a place where you know that you're not for everyone.

• 18:32Ryan Holiday?

  Like, I'll get comments from people and they'll be like, uh, I don't like Ryan for X reason. And I'm like, yeah, but I'm trying, like, I hate that, like, like what you're saying you like. I am deliberately trying not to be. So we actually agree. Like, you're saying you don't like me because I'm not X, and I don't want to be X. So it's not that we don't like each other. It's that we shouldn't be interacting with each other. Do you know what I mean?

• 18:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. But anybody that doesn't like you, Ryan, I mean, go to hell. I'm a believer. I, I know you're an atheist, Ryan, but I'm not. I'm a Christian and I, there is a hell and go there. Go to hell. If you don't fucking like Ryan Holiday, are you kidding me, bitch? I'm, I'm not gonna say some other choice words because this is, you know, Stoicism, we're gonna get into that. And I am about that. I have, look it, I got it right here, Ryan.

• 19:21Ryan Holiday?

  Oh, you got the calendar. Amazing.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  I have everything. Ryan, when I tell you I drink the blood, I'm in the cult. I got it. I'm in it. I've got it. We're in it. But if you don't like Ryan Holiday, seriously, God, I'm not gonna say what I was gonna say. But God bless you and I will be, you, I'm putting you on my prayer list.

• 19:37Ryan Holiday?

  I love it. Well, so how did you find Stoicism? Let's start there.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay. So I found Stoicism because of my very good friend, um, Novi. She is phenomenal writer. She's, um, Emmy nominated. Hello. Uh, and is a writer at the Black Lady Sketch Show. And she is like, like she put me on to really like Tim Ferriss. I had listened to a Tim Ferriss episode, but didn't know, I wasn't like heavy into it, right? And so she really put me on to meditating and because she's another black woman. And she also like, we come from the same upbringing as far as like church. The fact that she was into it, I was like, okay, let's see what the fuck this is about. But Stoic, when I hear Stoic, I'm like, I don't want to be like that. Like Stoic is like.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  You know, you gotta stick up your ass or something like you just like you sit there, you look, you don't emote. And and you can see I'm an emoting person. I don't know if emoting is a word, but it will be today. It is. And so it is. Okay, great. And so when she was like daily stoic and then she was reading me, I was like, okay. This sound like commandments, but without thou. Like, I feel like stoicism is really like just to take extra commandments, but there's no thou shall. It's just like, okay, this is just what it is. And so I also like, Ryan, I used to be like very self righteous, very religious. Like, I would have never spoken to you.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  You were going to hell and I, and bye. Like, I was just so, so self righteous and in a box. And now moving to New York, I've moved there and I was there for eight years. I recognize that I believe what I believe because I'm a black girl from South Central Los Angeles. If I was in Tokyo, I'd be Buddhist. If I was in Liberia, I'd be Muslim. You see what I'm saying? So who am I to be out here and being like, fuck all of y'all. All of y'all are wrong. And some, some of the most deepest connections and honestly, when I've like, really felt like, oh, wow. This is like such an intimate connection is with people that don't think like me.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  Some people that don't have the same religious like beliefs or are atheists, you know? And so literally listening to you and practicing stoicism was my way to open up my fucking brain and realize that there is so much more life out there and there is so much more. There, there are people that do not necessarily believe what I believe, but that doesn't mean what they're saying is not true. That does not mean what they're saying is not correct. And that doesn't mean that what they, what they believe and what they're saying can't be applicable to my life. And stoicism, child, Ryan, you would think that you was Jesus coming back. Cause the way that I tell everybody about stoicism, I'm telling you, I got so, that's my thing. I wanna bridge the church and Ryan Holiday. And come together.

• 22:29Speaker 01

  My goal is for you to get on stage with TD Jakes, okay? With the bishop, okay? Because the shit you be talking is like, straight up, like, some of it is like, Christianity or commandments in layman's terms. Does that make sense? It's like, I love, I love the church. The church made me, and I love it so much. But like everything, there is some holes in it, and I do believe that there was a lot of times when things were declared to me in church, but you didn't give me the tools to, to carry that out. Does that make sense?

• 23:01Ryan Holiday?

  It does. Did you grow up very religious?

• 23:03Speaker 01

  Yes, oh my God. Church, three times a week. Four times if I was acting up.

• 23:09Ryan Holiday?

  What denomination?

• 23:11Speaker 01

  I grew up apostolic. Pentecostal and apostolic, you know, we don't play. Apostolic, we are like, we was like, we like the Jehovah Witness of, of the, of the, of the religions, of the, of the Christianity. Because it's like, you got Baptist, you got AME, you got Episcopal, you got, uh, you got, uh, what is it? Full Gospel Baptist. Now, they, they don't wear no earrings, Ryan. So apostolic, we was like the joke, we was like, felt like we was the chosen ones. Because we were just like, what we believed, what we believed is that you must be baptized in Jesus' name and filled with the Holy Ghost, speaking out of tongues, as spirit of God, give utterance to enter into glory. Now, I no longer believe that, okay?

• 23:54Speaker 01

  I do not, I no longer believe that like, okay, if somebody didn't get baptized, that they going somewhere else. And I'm also, okay, renegotiating hell. I said hell a lot earlier, as a joke, but I have a very good friend of mine, Christiana, who's the smartest bitch I know, and her, she's a believer, and her husband is atheist, and they were telling me about it. And I was just like, okay, there's a lot of things that I just believed in the Bible that I didn't really read, that I didn't really research. And now looking at it from this lens as a grown woman, I'm just kind of like, okay, so I'm definitely open to, what is hell? Was that a real place? Who were they talking to?

• 24:38Speaker 01

  I'm definitely open to researching more versus just regurgitating what has been told to me my whole life. Does that make sense?

• 24:47Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, have you read, uh, Love Wins by, by Rob Bell?

• 24:51Speaker 01

  No.

• 24:52Ryan Holiday?

  I think you would really like it. I, I, I, I read it a couple of years ago. He, he's basically talking about the idea that like, maybe hell is not a place that you go in the afterlife. And, and this is to be kind of more of a stoic argument. I feel like the Christians and the stoics had a, had a pretty clear alignment as, as far as like what one should or shouldn't do, like that, that a a pretty similar definition of what you might call sin. But I feel like the Christian argument was like, if you sin, uh, you'll make God angry and you'll go to hell. Uh, I feel like the stoic argument is like, and this is more what, what, what Rob Bell is saying in Love Wins, is that if you sin, you will live in hell. Like your life itself on earth will be hell. And I think conversely, that also means that like

• 25:38Ryan Holiday?

  heaven isn't this reward that you get at the end of life. Like heaven is where you live now. According to whether you live rightly or wrongly. Do you know what I mean?

• 25:51Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I believe, I believe that there is a heaven. I do, and, and that's the thing too. I think, I think based on my experience is why though too, like I, I, well, I think with anything, like, you know, like, why do we recommend restaurants? Like, why do motherfuckers drive Uber? It's like, it's like, or ride Uber. It's like, yeah, it works. You should try this app then, and then, you know? So for me, it's just like, God has shown himself to be real and true in my life so many times. And I think it, I felt him the most when I moved away to New York, when I got out of this religious routine. And I really felt him and experienced him through people that were gay, through people that

• 26:35Speaker 01

  were atheist. Like I, like even though I know that people are atheists, I, I feel like I'm double talking, but I believe God can use anybody and I hope I'm not disrespecting you by saying that. But I just, I really believe that there are some people who I've come in contact with. I'm like that, that is God. Like the way that you love me, how kind you are. And I'm serious, Ryan. I believe that God is using you. Like there's, there is, there are so many times when you said something. Like I remember, I, I'll tell you where the fuck I was. When I was, I had to close the Daily Stoic Journal. Everybody who's listening to this, when you get to this part, I swear to God, you might have to close it and come back some months later like I did. When you fucking said, well, you didn't say it, but it's written in the journal.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  But it said, are you content with being clueless about the things that do not matter? When I tell you, Ryan, Ryan, middle name Holiday, what's your middle name?

• 27:30Ryan Holiday?

  Clark.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  Ryan Clark Holiday. I fucking died. I had to close the goddamn book. I clo- no, seriously, I haven't, it's been six months because that right there is enough, that is a word. Now, I know that's a stoic principle, but as a, as a, as a Christian, that's a word, that's a bar. And so that spoke to me and I was just like, wow, I cannot fucking, and, and when, once you, once you really break that down, Ryan, nothing matters. Not, a lot like, like my family matters, okay, like I have my water here, drinking water matters, okay, okay. But my thing is just like, are you content with being clueless? Like you can't, you don't need to know a fucking thing

• 28:16Speaker 01

  about the thing. And there were so many things at that point, Ryan, that I was focused on that did not matter. And I think it is a byproduct of working in late night because I was required to not mind my business.

• 28:29Ryan Holiday?

  Right. Yeah, you had to follow the news because it was your job.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  Yes. I have to know, Ariana Grande doesn't have a ponytail today. Okay, what's Trevor's take? The fuck? I don't care about this. I don't care about, now Ariana, I love you, I'm a pony, I love your music, God bless. But I don't give a fuck that you ain't got no goddamn ponytail, that your hair is down or that you have a bob. But it's like, it's hot off the press, everybody's talking about it on Twitter. So, yeah, so it was, that was very hard to hear that principle in the pandemic while I had to continue to do my job because it was like, fuck, I, I can't be clueless. Like I have, so it was, it was great. And that, that was a word. God used you, Ryan. That was amazing.

• 29:08Ryan Holiday?

  Well, that's, that's very kind of you to say. No, I, I think, I think there is, there is something weird about the, the, the Daily Stoic and the Daily Stoic Journal in that I wrote it like five years ago now. And obviously, like, it, it's three hundred and sixty-five entries, so I wrote three hundred and sixty-five entries. I had, obviously, I wasn't like, hey, March first, it should be this, and then- You know, May 3rd, it should be this. Like, I just wrote 365 things and then I kind of loosely shuffled them around in a way that, that, uh, that I thought, uh, it would make sense. But then I'll hear from people and they'll be like, how did you know? Like, how did you know I needed this one today? And it's like, I didn't, like, at all. Like, I, I, I have no idea who you are and there was no planning

• 29:51Ryan Holiday?

  behind this whatsoever. Um, but, but I think, like, when the Stoics talk about fate, or, or, or, uh, you know, when you talk about seeing God or God's hand in things, I think that's what that is. Like, it's sort of the randomness of life somehow often gives you exactly what you need, even when you don't think you could need it.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, 100%. And I think that too, like with Stoicism, the reason why I've shared it with so many other people that are believers, and they have literally been like, X, this shit has changed my fucking life. Because it's like, it's, it literally takes it a step further beyond just like faith over fear. Don't pray and worry. Like, you give like actual tangible tools. And also too, when I focus on what I can control, it's kind of like Trevor Moad, his philosophy about neutral thinking, may he rest in peace.

• 30:43Ryan Holiday?

  He has a new book, he has a book coming out about that. I, I just heard from his publisher. Uh, it was like the last thing he wrote before he died. It's on neutral thinking. Yeah, I, I don't sure when it comes out, but I'll, I'll, here, I'm writing it, I'm writing it down. I'm gonna make sure that they give it to you.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, you're so sweet. Thank you, Ryan. Um, yeah, it takes what it takes. I mean, I listened to that on Audible, like, each chapter is like 45 minutes to an hour. I mean, I'm listening to that every fucking day. But that, he, he, I feel like it's Sto- it's Stoicism-ish.

• 31:12Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  Uh, when he talks about how you don't focus on what you can, um, focus on what you can control and not how you feel, and that way you focus on what you can do. And then you're in control, you do the thing to attack the thing that you can control on, and then it's over.

• 31:28Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  You know, because positive thinking, you know, sometimes it's like shit is not positive. Like, this fucking pandemic that we're on, everything that, you know, that shit is not positive. But then negative thinking, it's like, okay, that always works, like, so I could just think negative. But what about neutral? And I think that's another thing too, Ryan, listening to you and The Daily Stoic and practicing Stoicism, is that, growing up as a Christian, everything was black and white. And I didn't realize until I started listening to you that I'm very judgmental.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  I put things in a binary as a defense mechanism to make myself feel safe. So it's like, it has to be black or white, right? It has to be this or that. And because I was raised with people who would use ambiguity as an attempt to manipulate me and would do it successfully, when people would try to say nuanced, like, I just started using that word a year ago because I didn't even like that word. I was like, what do you mean nuanced? No, it's bad or it's good. Like, you know? And it's like, well, things are complicated. And, and I realized that I was living in the nuance of things when I was making declarations, like, I believe this thing, like, because Ryan, I was totally against smoking weed. I was like, don't smoke weed, not gonna smoke. And then my cycle got to be so bad to where girls were like, girl, you might want to pop an edible.

• 32:43Speaker 01

  And I have fibroids and it's very bad. And so I started doing that, but then it's kind of like, people are so shocked to hear me say that because I was so lying in the sand, like, fuck weed. So it just, and then I feel like I lost, unfortunately, I feel like I lost trust of people because it was like, well, she's saying one thing and she's doing another. You know? So I've, I've, I've learned within the past, like, two years about how, because I have a tendency to be judgmental, I need to be quiet. Because as I'm talking, I want to put something in a binary. I'm like, but then there are some, like, rape is bad. You know, like, rape is bad. You know, like racism is bad. Like, there are some points where, you know, we're not gonna be nuanced, okay?

• 33:25Speaker 01

  But I do, that that is one thing that I have learned by listening to you. I was like, oh, wow, he's like, talking things, he's not really judging things and I'm like, so judge, I'm like, no, that's bad, that's good, which, um, isn't the case a lot of the time.

• 33:43Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, I mean, it's, it's kind of a strange reading that a lot of modern Christianity has on Jesus. Like, I can't imagine if Jesus came back, uh, today, he'd, uh, have a really, that he'd have a lot of negative opinions about trans people or what, you know what I mean? Like, he'd be very chill and very calm and very focused on generally loving, helping, being kind to people, being patient with people, forgiving people. Like, uh, it, I, that's been a weird part watching during the pandemic. Just how much of Christianity seems to have missed what I think the most important tenet in all of Jesus's teachings are, which is love thy neighbor.

• 34:28Ryan Holiday?

  Like actually just care about and give a shit about other people, even if you don't like them, even if you disagree.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  But Ryan, you forgetting the other part is love thy neighbor as I love thyself. What if you don't love yourself? You can't fucking love your neighbor. You feel me? It's not just love thy neighbor, it's love that. So a lot of people don't love theyself. That's why they out there. And I say this because I know a lot of Christians, we get a lot of bad rap. A lot of people go like, you guys are hypocrites, this, this and that. But I love what TD Jakes said when someone tried to tell him that. He was like, hypocrites? Okay. Well, what about when you go in a strip club? That girl don't love you? That girl dancing on you? She's a hypocrite. But you go to the strip club, right? Okay, thank you. God bless. So that's what I'm saying. Like for me, I feel like the church is a hospital and we all sick. So I just feel like, I feel like we all contain hypocrisies. As much as I want to be like, capitalism is bad.

• 35:19Speaker 01

  Amazon is gonna give me a Roomba and some titty tape in 24 hours. So I'm gonna go on Amazon because I need to wear this dress, I need to tape my titties, and I need a Roomba. Period. So it's just like, you feel me, Ryan? Like we all contain hypocrisies. Like we're all, it's just, it's complicated. What the fuck you want me to do? I'm one person, goddammit. And I'm not a billionaire, okay? I can't, I don't go troll nothing. So I just, I really believe that like if people, if, if, if you really want to believe in Christ, you will. Like it's not based off of people. It's not. And I think that there are a lot of people that are doing the will of God and that are trying their hardest, but there are some, especially, you know, the Caucasians, okay,

• 36:04Speaker 01

  that are out here professing that this is like the message of Christ not to get vaccinated, not to wear a mask, that racism is okay. You know, like that's all some bullshit. And you can, you can quote me on that.

• 36:20Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, one of my favorite things from Marcus Aurelius, he says like, you know, you just don't have to have an opinion, right? And that's where I've tried to get like as far as other people's behavior. It's like, I just don't, I don't, I don't have to have an opinion about what you do for a living. I don't have to have an opinion about stuff I don't enjoy. I don't have to have an opinion about your private life, even if it's weird to me, even if I think it's unhealthy. Like I just don't, I just don't have to have an opinion about that.

• 36:47Speaker 01

  I know, Ryan, and I opened the book and then you said that and then I closed it again. You said, what if I didn't have an opinion about this? I'm like, Ryan, I'm a fucking black woman in America. I got an opinion about every fucking thing. I got an opinion about every goddamn thing. I got an opinion. Why the fuck is McDonald's? Why is the M like that? It should be longer. Why is it gold? What does gold mean? They want us to get gold because we're from Africa.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  I'm just like, I'm just like, I, when you said that, I was like, damn. And then I'm in a job where I'm required to have an opinion. What if I came to fucking work and I'm like, Trevor, you know, I don't really have any thoughts about that.

• 37:19Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, who cares?

• 37:20Speaker 01

  Like, yeah, no, stoicism does not work for comics. It's just, it's fucking hard. Like, that's a lot. That's a joke. I'm just, it does work. But I'm just saying, it was very hard in my line of work, especially when, Ryan, I'm required to make jokes eight to 10 hours a day for three years. You feel me? Like, it was just, yeah, it was, it was, it was weird. It was hard. But once, once I left it, it was like, whoo, it was like stoicism all day. Like, oh, my God, I was in a goddamn stoictopia.

• 37:51Ryan Holiday?

  Well, it's, it's like you can be a stoic, but you're in, the environment that you're in can be very un-stoic. And one has to figure out how to navigate that. And, and there's nothing, there's nothing wrong with being on Twitter or having an opinion, being able to joke about what's happening in the world. It's just, I think the problem is when people start to actually really care. Do you know what I mean? Like, it starts to become part of their identity. Like, this is, you know, I'm sure you know comics who just, they just spend way too much time on social media. It's, it's become, it's become like the lens through which they experience reality, and that's just not healthy.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  And I, I disagree with you, Ryan. You said it's okay to go on Twitter. It is not. That is where demons roam. Now, that's hell. We can agree on that. Twitter is hell. That's, that, that's the hell that we're talking about. When I say go to hell, go to Twitter, period, because it's trash. But I, I do, I, I totally agree with you in as far as like, what is that balance there? And that's where my faith comes in because it's like, listen, I'm never gonna miss out on any opportunity. Whatever is for me will never miss me. I don't give a fuck if they DM'd me. Also, I have representation. You can Google me. I have a website. Like, I remember when Instagram went down. A lot of people were like, where's my career? And I'm like, Bitch, you better figure it the fuck out.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Cause I'm like, you don't have a website, you don't have representation, you don't have, like, you could find me. So, yeah, you definitely do need to have that balance because I know a lot of people who live and die by the internet. And it's just truly not real. And I started the twittering machine. I had to put it down because I was like, wow. This shit, cause you, you see how you, I am the fucking little, uh, what is it called? The little lab rat that they're using, like in this thing. And when I saw an article that said like the top tech people don't fucking let their kids use the fucking apps that they made. I said, well, what is in the app? Why, then why is it okay if I use it? But yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a gift and a curse because we needed to promote our shows, to promote our, I mean, that's how I find you.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  And I'm always sharing your shit and like, it's always in my stories and people like started following you and they love when I repost your shit. So I'm just like, it is a gift and a curse, but I think you use it for good and not evil, Ryan.

• 40:08Ryan Holiday?

  Well, thank you. No, I try and I try. I think it's about boundaries ultimately, right? Like, how do you, how do you have it in your life? But make sure that you're using the technology, not that the technology is using you.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, my homegirl, uh, Novi, who I told you about, introduced me to you. She had sent me an article about how to make your iPhone work for you and it's been like so seamless. And I like deleted stuff. It's crazy. Like you don't even know all these little trackers, all these little things or how to manage pop-ups. Like different shit like that is just, is, it's really helped me a lot, especially in the pandemic. Like it was just, we're all just on our fucking phones. But I just, I have to put it away, especially because now I have deadlines. I have shit to write, like. I'm very grateful where my career has gone and like, I'm really trying to attack this year and it's just like, I gotta be focused. So I delete Instagram. I upload it on Mondays to promote the show.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  American Auto Tuesdays on NBC 8pm followed by Grand Crew produced by my friend Phil Jackson. Okay, and Grand Crew is an all-black show. It's phenomenal. I know some of the writers and the actors, Carl Tartt, Nicole Byer, Echo, they're just killing it. But also, American Auto, the show I'm on is created by Justin Spitzer, who also created Superstore, and he came from The Office. So, he just makes nothing but the hits. And we have like Anna Gasteyer leading, who's SNL royalty. So, yeah, so I log on every Monday. That's what I'm doing now, and I like upload and promote the show and then delete it.

• 41:39Ryan Holiday?

  Really?

• 41:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:41Ryan Holiday?

  What I do is I, most of the, most of the stuff for me is either managed by someone else, or it's all scheduled. So like, I go like, hey, this would be, this would be a cool post, and I'll send it to them, but it'll be like two weeks from now. So then if I change my mind, or if I think, you know, I, I think one of the problems with social media is that it's really reactive. So it's like, yeah, stuff is happening in the world that's terrible and frustrating and annoying and weird. You don't want to be like responding in real time, because that's when you say stuff that you regret, or that doesn't age well, or that's coming from a place of anger, or fear, or frustration. And I, I just don't think that's a, that's a good way to, to, to, to manage your public self.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, and also too, Ryan, I've never been one who argued on the internet. You will never catch me in the comments. I don't go in the comment section. When American Auto came out, like, some people knew about some of the negative press we were getting. I don't go, like, if you look on my Twitter right now, it's literally reposts of projects that I've done. I only got it because I started working at The Daily Show, and they were like, if Trump takes his dick out, you gotta have a joke. And I was like, okay, so I gotta be ready, you know, because he, you know, his dumb ass. He was meeting with the tally band. He was just, just a dumb ass. And so I was just like, okay, let me get Twitter. What is Trump doing? What's Lil Trump, Baby Trump, All the Trumps? I don't know their names. I don't give a fuck. And I had to learn all that, and so that's why I have Twitter. But I don't go on there, ever, Ryan.

• 43:09Speaker 01

  You just, you just can't. You can't. It, it serves no purpose. To me, and I also too feel like, who are you? Like I genuinely, when people go back and forth with trolls, I'm like, who the fuck is this bot? This bitch that's a fucking snowman.

• 43:24Ryan Holiday?

  It might not even be a real person. You could be arguing with a computer, you idiot.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm just like, I, I, I, I just don't care. I just don't care. My mama thinks I'm funny, but we're done. That's it. That's the first, last, and only critic, my mama. She loved it. Great, moving on.

• 43:44Ryan Holiday?

  How do you, how do you keep a sense of humor about all of it? There's a, there's a quote from Seneca I like where he's saying there's sort of two paths. You can laugh about, or he says you can cry about how terrible the world is. Or, or you can laugh about it. And he says the Stoics should sort of laugh about it. Which I think is funny because you know, we have this sense that the Stoics had no emotions. But I love the idea that they actually laughed at the absurdity or the awfulness of the world. How, how do you, how do you keep a sense of humor about all of it?

• 44:14Speaker 01

  Childhood trauma.

• 44:18Speaker 01

  I have been through so much shit, Ryan. Like let me, oh my God, my auntie was a pimp. She was out here doing shit. Everybody's on drugs. Every, but it's just, it was, it was not, it was not that, uh, uh, harmonious, uh, growing up. And so I had an amazing mother who really sheltered me and shielded me as best as she could from that. And my mama is top tier. I love my mama to death. She raised me very well, worked her ass off. She's the reason why I have my work ethic and I'm so focused and I've always been career driven since I was fucking born, like literally my, I would like sign everything for the field trip slip. And I'd be like, I already raised my money. I sold candy bars. I just need you to sign this so I can go to the Getty Museum.

• 45:02Speaker 01

  Like I was, I was finding clippings of auditions and stuff. So for me, I've always just had that eye. I've always seen sometimes in ways that I should be taking things seriously.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  Because in high school, I was always in trouble like X, you are always making jokes. You are never gonna get anywhere in life making jokes and and Mr. Haji Marcos, fuck you. Okay, cuz I did. And so I think like also training that muscle being around comics like doing improv and sketch. Um, I did that at UCB for like two years and then um, being at the Daily Show like constantly being around comics and it's just really a skill. And I think too, like as a black woman in America, like if you can't laugh at this shit, like I'm black, I'm plus sized, I have Afro, I have Afro. Like, you know, like I don't have like the typical like curvy shaped like if if I really take in all of the bullshit every

• 46:00Speaker 01

  day, Ryan, I never leave my house. I would never. And the Bible says the joy of the Lord is your strength and it really is. And I cannot lose it. It really is my strength, truly.

• 46:11Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah. And and what who is it rewarding by deciding to be cynical and sad or bitter about how awful everything is?

• 46:21Speaker 01

  Hold on one second, Ryan. I'm sorry.

• 46:24Ryan Holiday?

  No sweat.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  I had a family member who recently got the COVID. They're they were calling me.

• 46:30Ryan Holiday?

  Oh, no.

• 46:31Speaker 01

  They're fine. Yeah, but they're fine. They're boosted, they're vaxxed, they're waxed. It's great. It's just the it's just the Omarion. You know, it's out here. It's just the Omicron. But you know, we call it Omarion. Did you know that, Ryan?

• 46:44Ryan Holiday?

  I didn't. I didn't. I love it.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  I'll put you on to it. It's called the Omarion. Do you know who Omarion is?

• 46:50Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, yeah, of course.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  You know Omarion is?

• 46:52Ryan Holiday?

  I do.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  Who is he? Who is he?

• 46:54Ryan Holiday?

  Uh, he's a singer, right?

• 46:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:57Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, of course.

• 46:58Speaker 01

  Are you Googling? Ryan, I'm gonna beat your ass.

• 47:00Ryan Holiday?

  No, no, he he's a he's like a early 2000s, uh, like rapper, R and B guy. Yes.

• 47:06Speaker 01

  Yes. Well, not really rapper singer. He was the star of uh, B2K. Yes, yes, yes. Oh, my God, Ryan.

• 47:13Ryan Holiday?

  Wait, wait, wait. You'll love this. So I I did Google him. I I knew who he was, but I did Google him. But this is a Variety headline. Omarion, I am an artist, not a COVID variant.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  Yes, Ryan, you gotta hop on black Twitter just for five seconds so you have your ear to the street so you know what the fuck is going on. Because black people, you know, we have to laugh at everything. Like, we, we have to, like, to keep from crying. And I always say this, black people, we tired, but we resilient, period. Like, we, we get over racism and all the bullshit and, and all the shit that white people have fucking, it's like, we gotta laugh. So that's when the Omicron, it was like, this Omarion is out here. We had, we had to do it.

• 47:56Ryan Holiday?

  I, I love black Twitter. I, I had a weird experience. I like being like, not in the in-group, right? Like, I went and I saw Hassan Minhaj's show, and he was in Austin. He was on The Daily Show, yeah. And, and it was, it was really weird being in the audience and realizing, like, most of the jokes are not for me. Right? Like, like, you know what I mean? Or, or that, like, a lot of the jokes were, like, about white people, which is, you know, because how American culture historically has been, like, most things on TV, in art, or whatever, are for me, right? Like, they're about, like, my people, right? Like, all the, the jokes and the assumptions are about, like, what it's, you know, the worldview

• 48:40Ryan Holiday?

  of a straight white person, essentially, or a straight, middle-class white person. And so it was fascinating, like, you know, he's, he's doing all these jokes about, like, how your parents really wanted you to be a doctor, or whatever, and they were really strict. And I'm like, what are you talking about? That wasn't what it was like for me, you know? Like, like, it was, so it was, it was like, actually, I, I love different kinds of humor that are, like, you have to think about to get, because you're not just naturally speaking that language. Like, I'm not an Omarion fan, so I don't, I don't immediately get that reference, right?

• 49:15Speaker 01

  The slander. Oh, no, he takes it back. Wait, black Twitter gonna light your ass up. No, he takes it back. Black people, listen to me, listen to me. He take, it was a, that was a little knee-jerk reaction. Okay, he takes it back. Ryan Holiday is an Omarion fan. He is going to the concert. He is downloading, he is downloading Entourage as we speak. Amen.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  Do you like R and B, Ryan? What's the type of music you like?

• 49:41Ryan Holiday?

  Uh, I, I like heavy metal.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  Heavy metal, okay. Not for me. I'm not the audience.

• 49:47Ryan Holiday?

  Exactly.

• 49:48Speaker 01

  I'm not the, I'm not. Ryan said, exactly. I, but this is the thing, Ryan, I've tried. I have, I have, I have dabbled in, uh, Korn.

• 50:01Speaker 01

  Oh, oh, oh, oh, okay. Oh, shit. Korn ate the lick? I thought, I thought I was doing something. See, I thought I was connected. Oh, shit. Okay. Uh, Kiss? Kiss?

• 50:11Ryan Holiday?

  Uh, yeah. I, I mean, th- these are, they're, they're different. They're different, uh, levels of, of heavy metal that appeal to different.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Oh, it's levels to this shit. Teach me something. Okay. Red Hot Chili Peppers?

• 50:24Ryan Holiday?

  That's a good band. That's, that's not really heavy metal, but it's a, that's a good white person band. Yeah.

• 50:32Speaker 01

  Okay, no. I, no, I was working really hard, Ryan. I ain't gonna fuck you up and be like, Maroon 5.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  Oh, no, I would never disrespect you like that. Do some shit like that. At least, god damn it, if I know nothing about heavy metal, I know Adam Levine is not it. Okay?

• 50:46Ryan Holiday?

  That's right.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  Talking about Sunday morning rain is coming. Ryan's like, turn that shit off. I wanna hear some.

• 50:56Speaker 01

  Okay, so I'm gonna, okay, so you're gonna listen to Omarion and I'm gonna listen to some heavy metal. Who, who do you suggest? Who should I listen to?

• 51:02Ryan Holiday?

  I, I'll, I'll send you some Iron Maiden and we'll, we'll, we'll trade off.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  Some Iron Maiden. I know that's.

• 51:10Ryan Holiday?

  You know what's funny? I think, I think like, uh, black Twitter, I liked when, when that was more of what Twitter is, instead of just politics, like all of it. I remember when people would talk about like pizza on Twitter or whatever, you know? Instead of just like, uh, uh, the, the most vile political arg- pointless political arguments that you could imagine. Do you know what I mean? I think that's the other thing about.

• 51:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:34Ryan Holiday?

  Humor is that at least humor brings us together, uh, in a way that, you know, it doesn't when we're just arguing over stuff.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  Well, that's another thing too. Also, we have a lot of self-appointed critics. Like, somebody will read a one fucking article about space and now they're an astronaut. Now they can tell you anything and everything about fucking space. And I'm like, you are not well-read enough to enter these conversations. And I know that about myself. I know what I don't know and I don't know a lot. Okay, Ryan? Like, there's a lot of shit that I, that's why I read. That's why I fucking read, cuz I'm like, let me learn, let me find out. And that's another thing too, like, when we were writing jokes and stuff at The Daily Show, I was very blessed that we had researchers, producers, studio, like, everybody would bring the whole thing together, like, a goddamn pie, and they're like, my joke is truly the cherry.

• 52:27Speaker 01

  But they're bringing the pie, but they're like, eh, so what is a joke? But they're bringing me, I was blessed to have all that information out. Now, the bitch that's fucking working at Dunkin' Donuts does not have a studio producer, does not have a researcher, does not have 12 other brilliant writers that are really fucking smart, that bring this thing together, that you have all the facts to make a goddamn joke about or on. So, yeah, I, I totally agree with that. It's gotten so political, and it's just kinda like, you get lost in that damn rabbit hole, and now you're arguing about, I'm with you. Let's bring back Pizza Wars, Papa John's versus Domino's. Let's have that. Let's, let's get into that. Let's have that be on Twitter, than the shit that they got on right now.

• 53:11Ryan Holiday?

  I, I totally agree. Well, so let me, the last thing I was gonna ask you about, uh, I did not, uh, I did not assume you would, uh, you would curse such a delightful amount, which is, uh, which is,

• 53:24Speaker 01

  Oh my god, I'm so sorry, Ryan.

• 53:25Ryan Holiday?

  No, no, no, no, no, here's what I was gonna say, cuz two, two funny things. So, I curse a lot, and that's like, uh, that, that's just like how I, how I think, and how I write. And, and one of the notes that I got when I wrote the draft of The Daily Stoic is that my, um, my editor was like, "Brian, I think this book can be sold in Christian bookstores, but not with all the cursing that you have in it." And so they had me take all the cursing out of it. Um, but I, but like, that's probably the criticism that I get the most. I get like angry emails about it, and whatever, people get mad, especially like on the podcast, like, when I'm writing, I can control it, but when, when I'm talking, it just comes out. I think it's just being it from California, or whatever. That's just sort of how, the mentality that I picked up.

• 54:08Ryan Holiday?

  But, uh, but how do you think about that? I, to me, I almost feel like there's like, uh, swear shaming, right? Like, we like shame people for cursing, as, but we're not supposed to judge people's, uh, moral and personal choices, but, but we can, we can decide it's not okay to curse. I don't get it.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, well, I was one of those people and I think I, the reason why I used to do it, like I, I can tell you when I started cursing. I had so much cursing built up and so much judgment, I was just saying like, motherfucker for like, two hours straight, it was just like vomiting out. Um, I started cursing around twenty sixteen. I remember, uh, I was like, just like, it's just fucking language. And I remember I said that, I was like, it's just fucking language, like, what the fuck, whatever. And it just felt so good in my body. But I know that before I did it because I was very self-righteous and I used to do it. Now, I'm not saying this is why everybody else changed, you know, you gotta, you know, put that out there. I'm not speaking for every fucking body.

• 55:09Speaker 01

  But I know I used to do it because it's like, I'm big, you're small, I'm right, you're wrong, I'm above you, I'm better. Look at me, I can choose other choice words besides fuck and damn and shit. And you're just like, just so less than. And it's just like, bitch, get out of here, it's not. And honestly, Ryan, I don't, no diss to your publisher, manager, whoever told you that. A lot of Christians cuss. So your shit probably would have sold quicker if you had some motherfuckers in it. So, if you would have put the damn daily stoic, black people would be like, what is this? Oh, goddamn, he said the damn, he's serious about this shit. Like, yes.

• 55:48Ryan Holiday?

  Let, let's, let's go back to Jesus. I don't think Jesus would be around policing what words people use. That doesn't seem like a very good use of his time.

• 55:57Speaker 01

  No, David was a murderer and was killing people and, you know, having sex with naked women that were in the window. You know, and, you know, he was, he was hanging, first of all, rehab was a prostitute who God used. The Lord fucked with everybody, Jesus kicked it with everybody. He loves everyone, which is always so jarring to me when people are just like, no, you are a less than. Now, I think that if somebody is not kind, right, if they're not loyal, right, if they're like, then somebody comes up to you, Ryan, they're like, Ryan, I wanna have sex with your wife. Yeah, Ryan, you shouldn't have, you shouldn't hang out with that person. You should not. That, we're not talking about that. But somebody who curses is like, what?

• 56:40Speaker 01

  That is not, that is not indicative of their entire, of their entire moral compass. Like, get out of here. But that comes with growth, right? And that comes with leaving your bubble, right? These are a lot of things I learned because I fucking left LA and I went to New York. And I was around so many different people that were kind of like, hey, the way you think is really small minded. And I literally had enough open of a mind to be like, I think you're right. I think you're right. Yeah.

• 57:06Ryan Holiday?

  I also think it's more fun. It's more fun to curse than to not.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  Just period. Just period. Did you ever used to do that as a kid? I remember we used to do that all the time. My, when I was little, like not around my mom, like I used to be like, damn. Like damn was my word. Like I just, I just knew it was like, just, just the worst thing of all, like damn it.

• 57:28Ryan Holiday?

  No, it's, it's a, and there's honestly nothing funnier than hearing a, a child curse. Like my, my, my, my five year old, uh, the other day was like, this is fucking bullshit. And I just, I like fell over laughing.

• 57:43Speaker 01

  I remember when my brother did it and I might tell you now, my mom was old school. She does not play that, that is not funny to her. Okay? So I remember my brother was on his phone and he was like, shit. Right? He was eight and I'm in the front dying laughing. And my mom was like, what did you say? And he was like, no, something messed up. I was like, shoot. Steven. And in my head, I wasn't gonna stall him out because you know, my mom has turned over a new leaf. But during that time, she was still whooping ass. And I was like, I don't know, but my brother get his ass beat. And I'm, I don't want to have to grab my mother's hand and be like, you will not. But she kind of like, she kind of like let it rock. And I let it rock too. Like, yeah, mom, I think he said shoot, but I'm like dying laughing inside. But it was so funny because it was real to him.

• 58:28Speaker 01

  It was his phone messed up and he was like, shit.

• 58:31Ryan Holiday?

  Well, and where did he learn that word, right? It's like in a Christmas story, he's like,

• 58:34Speaker 01

  From his sister.

• 58:35Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, no, well, they learned it from you. And where'd you learn it from? Your parents, right?

• 58:39Speaker 01

  My parents?

• 58:40Ryan Holiday?

  Exactly.

• 58:41Speaker 01

  As much as saved as my mama was, I said, ooh, mama. Because let me tell you, once the Lakers lose, because you know my mama's Mexican, my dad's black. Mexicans, we don't fuck around when it comes to the Lakers, the Dodgers and J. Lo. Okay? Don't, don't, that's the holy trinity. Okay? Lakers, Dodgers, J. Lo. Don't you talk about any of those people. Kobe, literally when Kobe died, me and like, some of my family was like, how are we gonna tell your mom? Like, literally, like Kobe means so much to us and like, but my mom, she like, loved the Lakers. So like, the Lakers were losing, or like, you remember when we lost to the Celtics or Shaq missed a free throw? She's like, god damn it Shaq. I said, okay.

• 59:19Ryan Holiday?

  Right, that's where you learn it. Yeah.

• 59:25Speaker 01

  Yes, Ryan, oh my god, Ryan, I could talk to you for two hours. I could talk to you.

• 59:29Ryan Holiday?

  No, this is amazing. I'm so, I'm so glad we met. This is hilarious.

• 59:34Speaker 01

  Ryan, I was, and I was really trying hard. I was like, do not curse, because I listen to you every day, so I'd listen to the other people. I'm like, the vibe is very calm, X be calm.

• 59:46Ryan Holiday?

  No, this is way more fun.

• 59:49Speaker 01

  I was trying my hardest, Ryan, but, you know, it's, I gotta be me, unfortunately.

• 59:54Ryan Holiday?

  I mean, what else could you be? I mean, that's, that's, that's who, that's who you should be. And I, that is a weird thing, too, I think, uh, as far as, it's like advice I try to give people. It's like, you're the only one of you, right? And so to try, it seems like it's a bad strategy to go try to be like someone else, because now there's competition, right? Like, just be, just be yourself and, uh, who gives a shit what anyone thinks?

• 1:00:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's, it takes you a minute. Like, it's something about turning thirty-three, AKA my Jesus year. It was something, it was something about then, because especially, your Jesus year in a pandemic, you truly think, oh, I'm gonna die. Like, what else?

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  Well, you Memento Mori, yes, bitch. Thou suck. I turned thirty-three, I was like looking around to my left and my right, I was like, I love y'all. It's been real. They was like, X, please. I'm like, listen, we in a goddamn panini, I don't know what the fuck is going on. Well, listen, I, I don't know. And I think another thing too, Ryan, like, the reason why Stoicism helped me so much too is that my brother died when I was sixteen.

• 1:01:01Ryan Holiday?

  Oh, no.

• 1:01:02Speaker 01

  He died due to a drunk driver, that's why I don't drink, and I was also raised around alcoholics and drug addicted family members. So, losing him and then I've lost three other cousins in my family, like, there, my mom has nine brothers and sisters, all my cousins, my mom is like the oldest and is the auntie that's always like had her shit together, so at some point, some cousin lived with us. So, I, my cousins are like my brothers and sisters, they're, we're very, very close. So, I've lost three other cousins as well, so I've lost four very important people in my life, and starting with my brother, I hate that it happened, but, like the Bible says, all things work together for the good of them who love the Lord. And I think what it taught me immediately, because he died at twenty-five, and at sixteen, twenty-five is so far away.

• 1:01:46Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 1:01:46Speaker 01

  It's like, that's like forty. I was like, oh, life is really short, I don't have a lot of time down here. So, when you talk about Memento Mori and just like, I'm gonna die, I always thinking, I always think about death and I really felt like there was nobody I could really talk to this about and know, to know that there is a group, like, there are Stoics who believe, who know that and talk about that. I talk about it so much and I think about it just because it's been so real for me. And I know that it is what every, everybody gotta pay taxes and die.

• 1:02:14Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Like, that's it. Like, everybody, well, if Wesley Snipes, but, you know, that's, you know, you're neither, you're neither. He's working on it. Wesley's working on it. But, it's just, yeah, I, I always think about death and I always think about like, hey, I don't have a lot of time down here, so I don't have a lot of time to waste. So, that's why I go all gas, no brakes, because I'm always thinking about, like, you know, Ryan, knock on wood, prayerfully, we'll make it to seventy-five, maybe, eighty? And we're in the year two thousand and twenty-two. That's not eighty out of two, that's not a lot of fucking time. You know, so I, I just don't. When people just sit on their dreams, when they sit on, I'm like, oh, you really think you have time.

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  But somebody like me who's experienced death so soon and so quickly, I'm like, bitch, you know, I'm hoping forty-five, but we'll see. And I don't, not in a negative way, I don't want you to think of like, as like, as a mourner or really like sad, it's just realistic.

• 1:03:14Ryan Holiday?

  Well, to me, it's about getting to a place where you're just always good. So if you get to seventy or eighty, you're like, that's awesome. But you also aren't sitting around in your thirties feeling like you haven't already lived a full life. Like, to me, I, I feel like very blessed to be like, I, I've done, up in, up until now, I've done everything I could do. Right? That's not to say I couldn't do, if you give me another fifty years, I'll, I'll give you fifty years worth of stuff. But like, I, I can very confidently say that I've given you thirty-four years. Like, I've been alive for thirty-four years. Whereas a lot of people are fifty and they've maybe lived cumulatively like ten of those years.

• 1:03:58Ryan Holiday?

  You know, um, because they wasted so much of it, either trying to be someone else, working a job that they hate, being addicted to this or that, right? Like, they, they've wasted that time. And so it really doesn't matter how long you live for. What matters is how much you, you live in the years that you have.

• 1:04:17Speaker 01

  Which is why I can take every risk because I'm just like, I, this is, tom- tomorrow really is not promised. I literally open my eyes and take a breath and then turn on Daily Stoic as I'm doing my bed. And I do that because I'm just like, I am so grateful for this moment, for today. Like, tomorrow truly is not promised, which is why my name on Instagram is eighty dollars in a suitcase because I went to New York on vacation and just stayed. Because I truly, I truly believe in myself and I believe in the God in me, truly. Like, I really know that there's a purpose and a plan that he's put in me and, and he, and he's rules over my life. So if he brought me there, why wouldn't he provide for me there?

• 1:05:01Speaker 01

  So I hustled my ass off. I was there for two weeks, worked Fashion Week. And when I got there, I was supposed to be working with this girl doing makeup. She's the reason I bought my ticket, never heard from her again. So I was like, fuck that, there's a reason I bought my ticket. I'm about to talk to every goddamn person I know in LA. Who do y'all know in New York? And I started dressing the models. And then when I got there, I kept talking to everybody, Ryan, and everybody's broke. Everybody was like, yeah, I came here with 10,000, now I'm broke. Somebody was like, yeah, I had 2,500, now I barely got 700. You know, I met people, they were like, yeah, I'm a professor at NYU and I also work at a bar. Like, everybody's poor. I was like, oh, well, I fit right in. I ain't got no money either. So if you can fucking do it, why can't I do it? And so, you know, but that's why, if you really want it, you can get it, Ryan. You feel me?

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  Like, I, I applied to eight jobs in person and 12 online, and in three days, I got a job. You feel me? Like, I, you just figure it the fuck out. Like, if you want to make it happen, you will. And then I went from $80 in a suitcase to being an Emmy nominated writer at The Daily Show with Trevor Noah. So it, it-

• 1:06:05Ryan Holiday?

  You did it.

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  It was, yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:08Ryan Holiday?

  Well, I'm so excited to see what you do next, and I'm so glad we met. And let's, let's make this a friendship.

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  Oh, Ryan, you're stuck with me. I-

• 1:06:17Ryan Holiday?

  All right.

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  I went to Texas and I was like, damn, if I knew Ryan, because I know you have-

• 1:06:22Ryan Holiday?

  You should have told me.

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  Austin. I know, but I didn't know you at that point. Like, my, my booking agent is the one who connected us both, so-

• 1:06:29Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  Um, when, when I, because he was like, X, how are you able to do this and that? Because I'm writing a book about, uh, I had 24 different roommates in New York. And he was just like, we, I want to, I was like, I want to write a book about that. And he was like, X, how have you been able to withstand and do this? I was like, Stoicism, Ryan Holiday, that is my captain. My captain, he was like, oh my God, I fucking know Ryan. I said, don't you fucking play with me. Do you really know Ryan Holiday? And then you emailed me and I was like, oh my God, this is insane.

• 1:06:55Ryan Holiday?

  But I've known Bird since I was an assistant at a talent agency in Hollywood.

• 1:07:00Speaker 01

  Wow. And also too, Ryan, I have to let the people know. So please watch American Auto. It's on NBC every Tuesday at 8:00 PM, followed by Grand Crew. You have to watch them as well. And also, I am in the second season of Yearly Departed that premiered on Amazon Prime. Uh, it's on there right now and I'm in a new movie called The Blackening that should be out sometime this year. So, and I'm also starting a podcast, Ryan, with another black girl who stands for stoicism. So you gotta come on.

• 1:07:30Ryan Holiday?

  All right, have me on anytime.

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:07:32Ryan Holiday?

  Done. All right.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  Yes, thank you.

• 1:07:34Ryan Holiday?

  I'll see you in Austin and everyone should check out your stuff and uh, I'm gonna get you this neutral thinking book.

• 1:07:39Speaker 01

  Thank you. And follow me at $80inthesuitcase on Instagram and Who Made the Potato Salad Show?

• 1:07:47Ryan Holiday?

  Hey, it's Ryan. Thank you for listening to the Daily Stoic Podcast. I just wanted to say we so appreciate it. We love serving you. It's an honor. Please spread the word. Tell people about it. And this isn't to sell anything. I just wanted to say thank you.