The $JUP Airdrop with Jupiter founder Meow

$JUP has landed, at a shattering $7b valuation. How did it get to $7B? Where did it come from? What does the future have in store for Jupiter? How will the decentralization of Jupiter begin? All these questions, and more, with the founder of Jupiter. ------ 🏹 USE PODCAST24 FOR 10% OFF https://bankless.cc/Citizen2024 ------ 🎧 Listen On Your Favorite Podcast Player: https://bankless.cc/Podcast ------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🐙KRAKEN | MOST-TRUSTED CRYPTO EXCHANGE https://k.xyz/bankless-pod-q2 ⁠ 🔗CELO | CEL2 COMING SOON https://bankless.cc/Celo https://bankless.com/Celo 🗣️TOKU | CRYPTO EMPLOYMENT SOLUTION https://bankless.cc/toku 🛞MANTLE | MODULAR LAYER 2 NETWORK https://bankless.cc/Mantle 💸 CRYPTO TAX CALCULATOR | USE CODE BANK30 https://bankless.cc/CTC ------ TIMESTAMPS 00:00:00 Episode Overview 00:04:29 Intro To Meow 00:10:10 Liquidity On Jupiter 00:15:10 Leveraging Solana 00:19:29 Inspiration For Jupiter 00:25:31 Eligible Airdrop Addresses 00:32:16 What Are People Trading? 00:39:29 Jupiter Launchpad 00:44:11 $JUP Token Launch 00:51:40 Bigger Than Uniswap? 00:56:45 50:30 Launchpad Dynamics 01:06:20 Solana Uptime 01:09:28 Future Roadmap 01:14:38 Hiring 01:17:26 Meow Origin Story ------ RESOURCES Meow on X: https://twitter.com/weremeow Jupiter: https://jup.ag ------ Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04David Hoffman?

  Welcome to Bankless, where we explore the frontier of DEXs on Solana. Today, we're talking to Meow from the Jupiter Project, which is perhaps the super DEX, the super exchange on Solana. We'll talk about what that is. Earlier this week, the Jupe token, the highly, hotly anticipated token out of Jupiter, has actually launched. This token was announced back at Solana Breakpoint in November of last year, and it's been hotly anticipated ever since. It just came in at a $6 billion fully diluted valuation, which is equivalent to Uniswap on Ethereum. So a very big launch. We got about $800 million of that actually circulating. So that is the actual market cap. And we're bringing on Meow, the founder. That is his pseudonym.

• 0:48David Hoffman?

  Apparently, it's very close to his actual real name, but people just call him Meow. He is a cat in a spacesuit on Twitter. We're bringing on Meow to talk about what is Jupiter? What is Jupiter under the hood? And then also the token launch. So this will, I think, be a hybrid episode for the Ethereum community, which Bankless, of course, has, is the majority of the Bankless audience, who have never experienced Jupiter before, or maybe only touched it once or twice, have heard about it, but don't really know what it is. That would be, I would call, the first part of the episode, the first half. And then the second half of the episode is going to be more geared towards the Solana people who are interested in the details of the launch of Jupe. There was a bit of controversy about the launch of Jupe that I heard. I am not super tapped into these conversations, so I'm coming at a very high level.

• 1:33David Hoffman?

  Meow will give his account and explanation of the mechanism for the Jupe launch. He will give his side of the story. I do not have the capacity to give what might be the other side of the story. So you'll have to search for that elsewhere, when whatever Solana circles are discussing this. So there's a disclaimer there, I guess. Overall, I found it pretty fascinating. There are definitely some differences about what Jupiter is on Solana versus what the typical DEX aggregator is on Ethereum. Meow walks through all of those things. And then we also just get into the other conversations, like the load on the Solana network, what's next for the Jupiter team with the liquidity that they have sourced as a result of the token launch? And also, what's next for Jupiter? Teaser: They are hiring, if you are looking for a job.

• 2:17David Hoffman?

  And now, let's go ahead and get right into the conversation with Meow from Jupiter. But first, a moment to talk about some of these fantastic sponsors that make this show possible, especially Kraken, our preferred crypto exchange. In 2024, if you do not have an account with Kraken, consider clicking the links in the show notes. How else are you going to get your boomer fiat bucks into the much more sci-fi world of crypto other than using Kraken? Click the link in the show notes to getting started with Kraken today. Kraken knows crypto. Kraken's been in the crypto game for over a decade. And as one of the largest and most trusted exchanges in the industry, Kraken is on the journey with all of us to see what crypto can be. Human history is a story of progress. It's part of us, hardwired. We're designed to seek change everywhere, to improve, to strive.

• 3:00David Hoffman?

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• 3:45David Hoffman?

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• 4:29David Hoffman?

  Bankless Station, I'm here with the founder of Jupiter named Meow. Meow, welcome to the show. Hey, how's it going? Nice to meet you, Meow. So you just had a gargantuan token launch. A $6 billion app just launched a token coming in at $6 billion. Fully diluted value, yeah. New value into the world. Congrats on that. How does it feel to be post-launch?

• 4:56Speaker 01

  Man, thanks for asking.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  No, no, no. I didn't even ask you that yet. No, no, seriously, thanks for asking, because no one has really asked me yet, right? So thanks, thanks a lot for asking.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Um, you know that the team has worked really hard, right? And um, and certainly, the funny thing is, is right, that we don't control the value, right? We don't, right? Uh, in fact, if you ask me and stuff, it's like, okay, it's like the market gave us this value, right? Then uh, then, and I think we are incredibly lucky, right? And fortunate, right? Um, to be a recipient of this value, right? You know, um, I think, um, and uh, I, I, I think, um, it is, on one hand, like, okay, we are grateful that things didn't mess up, um, we're extremely grateful that, um, I mean, we were able to give a present, right? You know, to a lot of people, you know, right? I mean, lots of people are like, I, I mean, obviously, I wish they kept their juke, right? But lots of people are like, hey, I could pay for my meal, hey, I could buy, I, I could find a new iPhone, right?

• 5:50Speaker 01

  And I feel like, um, I feel like, um, uh, that, that, that, that kind of, um, I mean, ob- obviously, we hear a lot about but like, you know, they, they, they're playing a gaming system and getting lots of, like, lots of capital. But there's some of these, like, you know, many small stories, right? You know, and, and, and that's pretty happy for me. So I think, uh, I think it, it feels very, um, grateful, you know, so I think on one hand, uh, I think, uh, it's like accumulation of a lot of work done. Um, so we're very happy to do, do and manifest that, right? You know, uh, also giving presents to people. And also, uh, and, and, and last but not least, I think, um, um, I think, uh, you know, I think, um, it, it marks the beginning, you know? I think, uh, thi- thi- this whole process has been this, um, amazing community process, right? Because, um, value is not generated by a team, right?

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Um, uh, if, if you're making a pencil, for example, maybe, right? You know, but if you're, if you're making a, a coin, a currency, a token, right? Uh, then the value is generated by community, right? Ecosystem, right? You know, so, um, last but not least, obviously, incredibly grateful to community and ecosystem, right? For doing this with us, yeah.

• 6:51David Hoffman?

  Well, yeah, and I think Solana as an ecosystem is learning how to do airdrops. We had the GTO drop. This is like the second big drop after GTO. There's been others as well, but really these are kind of the two big ones. And so I'm, one of the things I've been curious about is just learning about how Solana app teams learn to navigate a very difficult process of like beginning actually to like decentralize their whole, their whole app. I want to get into that subject later, but as you probably know, and as listeners definitely know, this is more, we have a more of an Ethereum focus on bankless. We are familiar with Ethereum. We know how these systems work on Ethereum. So I want to unpack what Jupiter is under the hood for our more Ethereum centric audience.

• 7:35David Hoffman?

  So the next bit of questions is, is like, if I were to pop open the hood of Jupiter, what would I see? How is it different? And, and then I'll, I'll ask, how does Jupiter uniquely leverage Solana? But for people that don't know what Jupiter is, or don't know, don't know what it is, and haven't used it before, what is Jupiter? It's, it's a, a exchange on Solana, but like, take it from there. If I were to like, look under the hood of Jupiter, what would I find?

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Okay, so, so if you, if you don't look under the hood, just look at the card, right? We are, we are, we are a full service exchange, right? You know, we have, we have, we have swap, we have limited orders with DCA, right? We have herbs and we serve a gateway to Solana, onboarding to Solana. And we also have a launch pen, right? Which is just launched, right? You know, yeah, so that's what I see on the outside, right? And what you see on the inside is that you'll see this extremely meticulously designed, elaborately engineered over three or four years, actually over two or three years, system, right? Meant to, you know, route, route, find the best routes, right?

• 8:41Speaker 01

  Across the whole Solana network in a way that is as fast as possible, right? Because as, as you guys know, Solana's block time is 400 seconds, right? And also Solana transaction speed is very, very, very fast. And also our transaction fees are very much, much lower, right? So, so in many ways, in many ways, so compared to other networks, so basically we had to find, so, so we had to aggregate across all the markets and then also find routes, not, not just for like larger trades, also very small trades, right? So our goal is very simple, right? Whether you're doing a two cent trade, or whether you're doing a hundred dollar trade or million dollar trade, right? We want to kind of effectively kind of route through the system, right? In a much more effective way, right? And one big difference to Ethereum is this, so Ethereum's constraint is gas fee, right?

• 9:24Speaker 01

  Or we know that. So Solana has a different set of constraints, right? It's like the account, the account size limit is smaller and different. So it's like, basically, how do we constantly navigate that? So how do we kind of like build a system that's extremely optimized, right? For like Solana's like, you know, speed and cost, at a certain time, like, you know, handle its limitations, you know? Yeah, so that's kind of what we see. And that's the short aggregation. So that short aggregation powers a number of systems, right? It powers the, it powers, it powers the swap, obviously. It powers the limit orders, it powers the DCA, you know? But it also, it also powers certain key things about the perps as well, right? You know, yeah, so, and yeah, so I think a number of things, yeah. So that's what I see under the hood, yeah.

• 10:10David Hoffman?

  On the surface, you have these different ways of swapping. You have the swaps, a limit order, dollar cost averaging and perps. These are all just ways to make a trade happen. And then under the hood, you said that it's a DEX aggregator. We have DEX aggregators on Ethereum, right? They do exactly what you say. They find liquidity across Ethereum and then they, they package it into the best execution for their users. Is Jupiter a source of liquidity as well? Is it like an AMM like Uniswap as well? Or is it more just of a, an aggregator of liquidity? And it finds liquidity elsewhere on Solana? Where is the liquidity coming from?

• 10:47Speaker 01

  So three different, three different ways, right? The first way, for the swap limit on DCA, there's no, there's no liquidity. For the perps, we have liquidity. Actually, we actually have one of them, the one, we actually have one of the most largest by volume, perps platforms in DeFi, right? Our perps did about 1.4 billion in volume last week.

• 11:05David Hoffman?

  Okay, so Jupiter hosts its own liquidity for its perps product.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Yes, precisely, right, you know, yeah, precisely, right? And then, and then, and then for Launchpad, and for Launchpad, we get, we source liquidity from teams, right? The host on the platform, right? You know, and then, and also, obviously, we also host the ad drop as well, right? For people as well, yeah. So, yeah, so, and I think, I would, I would say this, I think. We we are extremely so and by the way, we really, I think one thing that I'm very proud of Jupiter, right? Is that we really pushed the limitation of Solana to a limit, right? Like for example, there were a few things, like for example, Solana in the past had this a problem where transactions can be so big when they send the transaction in, right? And they implemented local tables. So we're the first to implement local tables, we're the first to implement priority fees,

• 11:51Speaker 01

  and first to implement like a bit like and basically anything that Solana does, we're the first to incorporate right into our system, you know? Yeah, so yeah, so I think we are like a really good example of composability, right? On Solana, because we can basically go through like six or seven markets on Solana for like transaction fee of like zero point zero two cents, you know? Yeah, so I think that's actually one really, really cool thing, I think. Yeah, that we really focus on, yeah.

• 12:14David Hoffman?

  Yeah, I definitely want to lean into that, but really just to round out the liquidity question. The swaps and the limit orders, where do those, where does Jupiter source its liquidity? If it's not, if it's not, every, everyone on Solana, so there's other like AMMs or other order, limit orders on other apps and then Jupiter finds them?

• 12:31Speaker 01

  So there are, so, so, so there's actually a few, there's actually a, a, a range of, it's actually interesting. Uh, it might be interesting for, for, for your audience, right? Um, because on Solana, you also have, for example, you know, stick, stick, sticking, right? So for example, if you, if you go, if you go from a, um, soul, right, to stick soul, liquid stick soul.

• 12:48David Hoffman?

  Oh, it's sticking, yes.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, sticking, right, like liquid stick soul, right, like a chido soul or like, or like marinade, marinade, so, right? So, um, Jupiter also integrates, um, something called Sanctum, right? Which essentially allows for immediate sticking and unsticking, right? So you can, so on Jupiter, right, you can immediately go from like a very large soul order to a very, very large, like, um, to, to the very large, um, uh, liquid soul, like in, in the same transaction, right? So you go through like AMMs and CLOBs and also that one thing, and so the way back too, right? You know, right? So, and, and so I, I think there are actually a number of like really, um, interesting, um, and obviously, obviously CLOBs is actually very proficient on Solana, right? But you don't do this system anywhere else. And actually integrating all these different systems, right, at the AMMs.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  And CROBs and things that sanctum, right, into one system, but it's actually quite challenging. Also, and I think that, and I think, and that kind of AMMs that you have on, on Solana is like a single sided liquidity pools. Right. So basically, I, I, I think, I think what, because the, the cost of that situation is so low, you do see a bigger variety of like, you know, possible liquidity systems that you don't see elsewhere. Right. Um. Yeah. So I think that's actually something quite interesting about Jupiter Dust, right? Is that we actually spend an incredible amount of time and effort, right? Trying to, um, okay, I, I, I'll put you through it. We are, we, we are where the AMMs take off their training wheels, right? Because, uh, you know, they, they build and build and build it, but they're not sure, they're not sure what breaks, right? But the moment they put in our system, that, that the first second that is like, you know, the hundreds of others starting in, right?

• 14:18Speaker 01

  In the first minute, right? So I think, uh, and, and, and, and sometimes they break, right? So we work with a team to really try to fix them and everything. And because a lot of these systems are very novel, right? You know, so they, so we work with them alone. Uh, so under the hood, so if you're under, if you look at, if you look beyond under the hood, to the people working under the hood, right? Right. Uh, I think you will see, um, you will see a team that is like, uh, very, very committed, you know? Right. And, and, and, and, and, and, um, and, and I mean, it's not me, by the way, it's the engineers, right? You know, like they, they are very, very committed to making sure that the whole system, uh, works as well as possible, right? You know, that takes that, that really understand like every single detail about the AMM, you know, and take, how to interpret everything, right? And, and we had the same amount, and we had the same level of, um, um, um, dedication to all our products, right?

• 15:03Speaker 01

  In all the swaps and, uh, and DCA and pubs and everything. Yeah. So, so that's, that's, I think, I think that's what you see under the hood. Yeah.

• 15:10David Hoffman?

  Okay. So you were about to get into it, uh, and then I wanted to go back and just like tie off that liquidity question. But I, I want to ask about how does Jupiter leverage Solana? Solana has unique properties that no other blockchain has, you know, it's extremely fast. It's got some parallelization to it. Uh, what are the strengths of Solana that Jupiter really leans into?

• 15:29Speaker 01

  I I mean, the the most obvious one is cost, right? You know, it's like, um, like, do, like, it's cheap to execute a a a complicated trade on Solana. You know, right? Um, it's very, it's more, okay, so, so. I will say, I will say this, right? It's like, besides the, um, besides the, um, technical curve of Solana, right? There's also ecosystem, right? Solana actually has a very, very well-developed ecosystem, right? And also, uh, and so it's actually two things. So you have a lot of like different E M Ms, right? You know, and with people who are investing like real technical effort, right? Into designing new systems, right? For example, Phoenix is a extremely different system for OpenBowl. And OpenBowl B two is a very different system from Phoenix, right? You know, and a bunch of other open ones are coming out as well, right? So you really have a lot of people who are like investing a lot of time and effort into, um, into their own system.

• 16:14Speaker 01

  But obviously, you don't have, you don't, you don't have volume, right? You know, at the start of new system, right? So what we do is that, uh, we plug you in and immediately you get all the, all, all, all, all the retail flow and all the everything. So, so we, we do, we do that. So I think to us, it's not just about leveraging, um, the, the, the Solana, right? You know, but also the ecosystem as well, which is, which is very, very important, you know? Yeah.

• 16:34David Hoffman?

  Hmm. Okay, so one of the big stories about Jupiter was that there was no V C funding. It was bootstrapped just from, from you and from the team. Can you talk about the, the genesis of Jupiter? Like, how, how did the idea get started? How did the project get started? And, uh, when, when did it get started? Tell us about the, the genesis story.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  Sure, sure, sure. Actually, so actually, so actually, uh, was it? So let, let me go, let, let me go way back, right? So we started out as a, so actually I did a lot of stuff in Ethereum, right? As well, right?

• 17:01David Hoffman?

  Pretty typical, uh, uh, everyone, everyone generally has their start.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, like, instead of Kyber and also, I also started W B T C. You know, when I was like working them, uh, with, with BitGo and everything, right? So I, I, I, I was, I was actually, like, I was actually really active in Ethereum, you know? I just didn't talk that much. Um, and anyway, anyway, anyway, um, anyway, we, we started a project called Mercurial, right? And then Mercurial as a project I started as well. And then that, that, that project took funding, that, that project took funding, right? Uh, and then, uh, and then that, but, uh, and over time, that, that ensured their project didn't do, didn't do that well, right? You know, and it, and, uh, didn't do well. Uh, and then, and we, and eventually what happened was that, and what happened was that we started, um, we started, and from there, we started Jupiter. As, as a new project, as a completely new project, right? You know, while, while Mercurial became Metar.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  Right? And then, and then so, so now with a, a, a project called Mitara, right? So it's, it's also doing extremely well as well. It's also doing extremely well right now, right? So basically, I think the, the genesis of Jupiter, Sata, Asma, Kura, right? Which did take funding, right?

• 18:03David Hoffman?

  Ah, okay.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  Which, which did take funding, right? And then it had a token as well, right? And then it transitioned and then in about, and then in about, uh, February twenty twenty three, we took a snapshot, right? You know? And then, uh, we took, we took a snapshot and then, uh, and now, and now, uh, you know, and now five percent of total JUP supply goes to Mercurial stakeholders.

• 18:24David Hoffman?

  Okay.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  You know, while, while hundred percent of the supply of Mitara goes to the, the most stakeholders. Yeah, I, I snapshot taken in that twenty twenty twenty three, twenty twenty twenty twenty three, yeah.

• 18:36David Hoffman?

  Okay. So there were, there were some other applications, some other startups that you started before Jupiter. Eventually you pivoted into Jupiter, uh, and then, uh, would you call it a pivot?

• 18:46Speaker 01

  No, no, no. It's, it's a new project.

• 18:47David Hoffman?

  Yeah, yeah, new project. Yes, right, right. Uh huh.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  But, but the, the original project became Mitara.

• 18:52David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  You know? Yeah. So I mean, that, I mean, we documented all these things in actual shipping detail, right? Uh, I, in, in, in, in, in many different places, you know, right? Uh, but I, but I think, I think eventually we were able to, uh, it was actually, uh, I don't get me on, it was a long process, right?

• 19:07David Hoffman?

  Mm hmm.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  But I think eventually we were able to, um, come up with, uh, we were able to kind of like, uh, I believe, I, and it's my, my personal belief, right? And certainly I think a lot of people appreciated it, um, to create, I think, two projects, um, Jupiter and Mitara, right? You know, that had a lot of value, right? You know, and we were able, I think, uh, we, I, I think, when we, I, I think, and we will find that value, right? You know, to the, um, original, like, most stakeholders. Yeah.

• 19:29David Hoffman?

  Okay, okay. All right. So how, where, where did the idea, the inspiration for Jupiter come from? And how did the team form?

• 19:37Speaker 01

  Hmm. The integration for, the inspiration of Jupiter was quite simple, right? Is that like, um, Okay, um, so obviously aggregation is not a new idea, right? It's not a new idea, all right? Right. Um, but it turns out to be excruciating hard to do, okay? Yeah. Um, so, um, the, the initial, so the first few other books on, uh, the first few other book systems on, for example, right? One major source of liquidity on, on for Solana, right, early on was Serum, right? And the, and, and Serum works completely different, right? You know, from a AMM, regular AMM, right? So basically, and then, you know, so so basically the, the, the very, very first step that you had to do, right?

• 20:21Speaker 01

  To even integrate, to even integrate this major source of liquidity was to understand Serum, right? Right? So basically, I think what will happen was that, like, you know, we were playing around with a, a, a number of different, uh, number of different, um, number of different, uh, uh, ideas, uh, no, no, no, I just have a number of things. Um, and, okay, so, so one thing is very simple. Actually, um, as part of my Ethereum background, right? I've always, I've always known something, right? Uh, essentially, whichever, um, whichever, if you have the best price, uh, the best token selection, and the best U X, you win, right? You tend to win, right? Over time, might not immediately, but over time you win, right? So I, I know that because I was part of, I was part of that, part of that system, right?

• 21:02Speaker 01

  And by the way, by the way, by the way, um, David, just to, that you know, I'm very good with, I'm very happy to talk to you. Because, um, because I, I've been, obviously, you know, more Solana podcast, right? So talking to you is really fun because like it's kind of brings, brings you back to Ethereum days. Right, right, right, yeah, yeah. So, so, so thanks all, thanks all for that, right? Uh, but, but, yeah, back with the point. So I feel like, um, I, I knew very, very well, right? What will be, right? But, and, and I, and one of the things I, I always noticed is like, okay, why don't people use aggregators on Serum more? Yes. Right. Because, yes, right? You know, and then, and then while on, while, while on the L tools, right? There's just not that many, um, not that many, like different AMMs that are the border, you know? So it just goes directly there, right? So, so I knew with that, so I knew with that understanding, I was like, okay, you know what, like, okay, on, um,

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Um. So I was thinking, hey, you know, an aggregator on Solana will probably be effective. You know, right? Because, um, you know, and if you add, but you must have did it well, right? So anyway, back then, there was actually three or four different aggregators on Solana already, right? They're trying to make it. But then we were looking around at them and they were like, uh, they can't do it because they couldn't, they couldn't, uh, figure out the most basic thing about how do you make, um, how do you make a AMM work with a CLOB? Right? That is very, very different because they work completely different, completely differently, right? So I think, um, so I think we invested about, so I think, you know, I think, I think we invested about, we, so it started out more as a curiosity thing, all right?

• 22:27Speaker 01

  You know, or like, hey, you know what, um, hey, how do we, um, can it actually be done? Right? How do you, how do you do it in a way that, okay, so another thing is important is that we are very UX focused team, right? So we, we have a lot of hardcore engineers and stuff, but we are all like very UX focused, right? Um, and I, I think that combination is very important, right? Being like able to do the hard handker work. Right now, but also being able to like really cover the user experience, right? Because, um, that was very difficult. So I think, I think eventually, I think after three, after two months, I think it was two months and it was really two months of like raw work just to do one integration, right? But then, then, then at some point I understood, wow, I get it now. I, I get why, um,

• 23:07Speaker 01

  I get why no one else is doing this, right? Because it took us two months just to do that simple integration, right? You know, so I think, I think, I think after you do, after we did that, I think that gave us, um, a lot of like confidence, right? To, to spin up to do this and your project, you know, right? And we, and, and, and we went from there. Yeah. So that's how it started, yeah.

• 23:26David Hoffman?

  How many people are on the team? Like how many engineers and or front end devs? Like, give us a snapshot of the team.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  Now or back then?

• 23:33David Hoffman?

  Uh, now, yeah, uh huh. Or, or maybe if there were other important phases to talk about too, like what, what was it like in the past and what is it now?

• 23:39Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, probably six, seven in the past, six or seven in the past. Yeah. When we, when we started on these, uh, whole, um, when we started on, uh, I mean, we, we, we kept pretty small for a long time, you know? Um, and then now we are like sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, around there and growing quite rapidly. You know, because we, we do actually plan to, you know, do a lot of things. Um, but yeah, it was, it was, uh, it was a period of like very intense, like, uh, experimentation, right? And again, I feel like it's one of those things that I feel like, um, There are a lot of teams that hop between Ethereum and Solana and other things, but I feel like don't do that. You know, I feel like it's very difficult because like to win in any ecosystem requires a lot of like very deep faith in the community.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  I mean, you know this, right? It's like, you know, a, a, a big part of whether your product gets any traction is if the broader community accepts you or not, right? Um, I think, I think that was actually one problem, right? Is that, um, but one, one thing that's just interesting here is that I think, uh, back at the peak of the Solana hype, I think a lot of other more prominent aggregator, everyone want, everyone signaled they want to enter Solana, right? You know, right? Um, and then, and then only one did, Kiber, right? You know, but I think others didn't. Um, and, and it's because of what I talked about, right? There's like really, really big like tanker header. If you understand to even get a functional product working, right? And even after you get it working, you, you can't iron out all the different details, right?

• 24:59Speaker 01

  And, and again, you know, it's funny, it's funny. I feel like the process that we went through was probably very similar to the process that the early ETH guys went through. Right? I mean, can you imagine life before ER20? I mean, come on, seriously, right? You know, we create, right? Or even before a lot of these new things came up, right? Um, yeah. So I feel like we, we can't went through that phase together. Right? You know? Yeah. So I think that, that, that's the reason why over time we built up a, a very strong like understanding, you know? Yeah. Uh, yeah. So, so that's the worry, I guess. Yeah.

• 25:27David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  So that's, that's, that's how it works here.

• 25:30David Hoffman?

  Sure. Let's get into the, the launch of Jupiter. Uh, you actually announced the Jupiter airdrop incoming at, uh, Solana breakpoint last November. And that, that's when the snapshot was, at least for phase one. We'll talk about what phase two and beyond looks like.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:46David Hoffman?

  955,000 addresses were eligible, almost a million. And just for comparison, uh, the largest airdrop of all time was the Arbitrum airdrop at 600,000. Uh, Arbitrum optimism had 250,000. I mean, I know that it's like pretty cheap to spin up a new, um, Solana wallet and then start transacting on it just because the fees on Solana are so low. But what do you make of this very high like address account? Like why, why are there so many active addresses that were eligible for the Jupiter airdrop?

• 26:13Speaker 01

  Um yeah, so so just to recap a bit, right, I think in the in Bitcoin, we announced a number of things. We announced the um the token. We announced a token sale, uh we we announced a um a uh a launchpad. And we also announced a bunch of other, we also announced pubs as well, right, you know?

• 26:29David Hoffman?

  Okay.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  We also announced the new Bitcoin city. So it was, I it it was actually a very, uh it was it was it was a very cool time for us because um over the last two years, we've been building, right? Just just building, you know? So um it was just really cool to just be out there, you know, like for the first time in two years, right? I think it was also really great because um um like everyone used Jupiter before, right? So it's it's a product that they had, they had already had a very close um touch with. Um and they knew very well, so it was like a um, I feel like it was a combination of like knowing the product and wanting a new token in the ecosystem. I think that and that's actually why I think it was actually extremely right, right? So um and I think um um so I think a big part of that, I think it it relates to your question you're asking, right?

• 27:15Speaker 01

  Um.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  I feel like most you most expert users will have one one or two wallets, right? At least two or more wallets, right? You know, and certainly we do know of of bot farms, tons of bot farms. They actually ran like ran about like, I think ten K was the max we had, right? And now, actually, we know pretty well, we actually know pretty well right now. Because uh it's like claiming, right, you know, right?

• 27:39David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  And we and and everyone started coming out, right? So actually, we have a big turnout. So the the good thing is this. Um so let let let me let me give it to you in the no in the most no bullshit way possible, okay? I hope you trust me on that, right? Um in a sense, I I do believe that roughly half was like really legit, right? You know, because the number of excitement that we had about the about our token, right? And number of like, and we see it now, right? It's like to to sustain a six hundred million dollar airdrop is actually not easy. You actually need a real community to actually give you a C C, right? Also to get it, right? So I think I think um um so I think as soon as there's there's real excitement, right? This this call has been crazy, everything, right? So I think I I I would say that I would say about like half is our users. That is my best guess, if you ask me.

• 28:21David Hoffman?

  Half of addresses are real, half half are farms?

• 28:24Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, half, no, half, like like duplicates, duplicates, not farms, duplicates, duplicates.

• 28:28David Hoffman?

  Okay, okay.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  And like the user having two or more wallets, right? I'm saying, you know, and and and I'll say this, we only found, we actually did extensive cluster analysis. On it, right, we want to make sure that, um, so we actually didn't find, because David, remember this, right? We didn't announce an add up at all, right? One of the things that we were very, very careful about was that, um, because I hate promises, I hate, I hate promising things, right? Because, um, certainly, I think in my past experience, whenever I promise something, things fail, right? Because there's expectation and then do not make things go, right? Um, so I think one of the things that I was very, very, very careful about over two, over years, was that was that no token talk, no add up talk, right?

• 29:08David Hoffman?

  Um hum.

• 29:09Speaker 01

  Now, so, um, so I'm actually very convinced that no one actually did that. And then, and then when we did the cluster, clustering analysis, right? You know, we did find, we did find some clusters, right? You know, uh, but then, uh, it wasn't, it wasn't that much, right? Now, but then, but then something, but then something interesting happened. Um, is that like, um, is that like, uh, is that like, I, what, what more was that? What was sipped our attention, right? I, I, I tell you this, okay? What sipped our attention was that like, uh, there was a big bump of our ten thousand addresses, okay? That came in the last million, you know? Because what happens that approaching breakpoint, right? Remember second, right? The hype became real, very, very high, right? You know, right? And, and, and, and then, uh, and then, and then, and then, and then, uh, we, and then, uh, the, the token wasn't announced there, right?

• 29:54Speaker 01

  You know, but there's a lot of hype, right? So I think what, what I think happened was that someone started thumbing down, right? So he, he spun up like, spun up like, you know, ten, ten thousand, ten thousand wallets and stuff and traded everything crazy, right? So that is like the only, um, and, and that happened like a few days before, right?

• 30:08David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  So, and, and, and that's only when the, the, the token topic can real, right? And also they did that. So that's the only big one that we found, right? And, and it was very annoying for me, right? Imagine someone running a script, taking out two million group, right? And dumping it in the market, I, oh, the fuck, and I know, okay, but, but, but David, okay? If you're interested, I mean, since you're interested in details, right? I will tell why I missed that, right? We missed that because, uh, we divided our, what we, we, because, uh, we divided the add up into two categories, okay?

• 30:36David Hoffman?

  Um hum.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  The first category is like tiered base, right? That means it's like, if you trade like, if, if you trade a thousand dollars above and stuff, you, you, you, you get the, um, you, you get a lot more, right? You know what I'm saying? It won't mean a lot more things like that, right? You know, it's not really a thousand, but it's based on, uh, the top number of people traded, right? Um. And then, and some modify us, right? And then we, we did, and then because, because we wanted to be as increased as possible, right? We allocated two hundred juke to everyone, right? That means that whether you traded a dollar or fifty cents or whatever, you get two hundred juke, right? So, and because, and because I had this mentality of like being as increased as possible, which by the way, I still think that's right strategy, by the way, I still think it was the right strategy for me to give two hundred to everyone.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  Right now, right? However, I think unfortunately, I think, um. Um. So unfortunately, we, we, we ran the cluster analysis only for the, um, the ones that got large amount of juke. Right now, and we didn't run the customer, you know, for like those two hundred.

• 31:34David Hoffman?

  Ah.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  So we, we, we missed out on that. On that big cluster, right? You know, right? Yeah. Mainly because I was like, okay, you know what? Everyone should get something, right? But what I didn't expect was that there was this like big fat fucking cluster.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  Fucking annoying for me, right? You know, because you try really hard, right? So it's like, because you know, customer analysis, customer analysis is never, it's never accurate, right? You know, you can never get it precisely right, right? So I was like, okay, whatever. I'm just gonna give the benefit of the doubt to everybody and stuff, you know, and just give two hundred to everybody. Right? You know, uh, yeah, but, but as a result of that, we did. Missed out on this giant cluster that probably came last minute, right? Yeah. So that's the, that's a big miss for me. Yeah. So, but, but it's fine. I think, I think, uh, there'll be future airdrops, I'll do better, you know? Yeah.

• 32:15David Hoffman?

  Mm hmm. For the historical addresses that used Jupiter, like how, how, when, when did Jupiter go live? Like when, when was some of the, the first trades that were eligible for receiving? And then overall, like over the span of, of Jupiter's history, for the people that got the airdrop, like what were they trading? Were they trading Solana for other tokens on Jupiter? Was it USDC being traded on Jupiter? Kind of like, what's the qualitative nature of the activity on Jupiter for the span of time that, um, that Jupiter's been alive? Like what are people trading on Jupiter?

• 32:50Speaker 01

  Um. They trade, actually trade a lot of different things, um, like, uh. Um. For a long time, it was, um, for a long time, it was, I think, uh, we, we went live on November, about, sorry, October twenty twenty one, right?

• 33:01David Hoffman?

  October twenty twenty one, okay.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  Twenty one, and then, uh.

• 33:04David Hoffman?

  Like close to the peak of, of Solana mania in twenty twenty one, yeah.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  Uh, some say down, but. Well, to be is down to, you know, right? Um, yeah, yeah, but, but, yeah, I, I, I feel like that's a bit, I feel like that's actually why I think the community appreciates us so much. Um, it's because I think we were, we started at the peak and then, and even when the, the markets looked really, really bad. Right? You know, and everyone ran away. We were like committed to it, right? Right? So I think, and, and we were the most front-facing example of that, right? So I think that's the reason. I mean, it goes two ways, right? I think they were appreciative of us and we are appreciative of them too. Right? You know, so this is like, you know, um, this, uh, uh, harmony, which is why I think we have a high level of trust, right? You know, because we were that, you know? Um, but back to your point, yeah, I think it was twen- October twenty twenty one and, uh, yeah.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  So, um, and then October twenty one, I think, and back then, if I'm not wrong, most of it is trading so USD, USDC. Right? And then, uh, and, and back then there was like this, uh, first, uh, like, I think that was the first generation of tokens. Like for example, uh, you had the first generation of maincoins, right? You know, you had like, uh, because like, like, like, uh, tokens like, like Oka and Radium, Mango, I think it's like that. You know, right? So, so that was actually the, the, the, the ones that were caught traded, right? And then that, uh, that actually, and, and, and, and that was true for a while. Right? You know, and then, uh, and, and USDC, USDC was pretty, pretty big as well. Right? You know, right? Um, and some level of that one whole tokens too, you know? Uh, but then after, um, and that, that, that was the first phase, right? First phase of like, um, first phase.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  And then, and then you have second phase, what about obviously, um, everything, everything crashed and died, you know, after the FTX thing. Uh, so activity actually pretty much like went to, um, like, like the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the body was horrible. Right? You know, like really, really fucking bad, right? You know? Um, and then, uh, but Bong came up, right? Bong, Bong came up. So Bong came out and it was big, right? But and, and that, that.

• 34:56David Hoffman?

  Bong came out like not too long after the FTX implosion, right? It was something like December of twenty twenty two or January.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  A bit later, a bit later, a bit later, a bit later.

• 35:05David Hoffman?

  A little bit later, early twenty twenty three, Q one twenty twenty three.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  All that, all that, yeah. And then, but, and, but, but, but that was big, right? Because that was like the, the, the, the first fuck you meme coin, right? You know, right? Uh, that, that, no, no, choose, don't, don't, don't choose, because that, that showed that, that showed that took us alive, right? You know, on, on Sona, right? And, and, and what was also very important was that, like, and, and big credit to Bong here, right? Is that I think, uh, uh, and the Bong team, like Nom, the ID nine and Primitive and like, uh, you know, Kizer and Casey. I, I mean, like, like, like this whole gang, we, I, we love them, right? You know, because I think they, they, they really, um, they really, I think, embody a lot of the, um, the, the community ethos, right? You know, and, and learn a lot from them, right? Uh, but essentially, I think, um, uh, that came out, I think that, that, that was important, that, that showed that Sona had life, right?

• 35:52Speaker 01

  Because, I remember it's funny, because, um, I, I, I mean, because I, I think people were saying, oh, something is on French, right? And, uh, and they were like, yeah, but it's just a meme coin, right? You know, whatever. I'm like, yeah, dude, but it, it shows that Sona has capital to deploy. Right? It, it, it definitely showed that Sona had capital to deploy. And even outside of Sona, people was paying attention to Sona, right? You know, right? It's tho- those two things are not nothing.

• 36:17David Hoffman?

  Right. It was a canary in a coal mine, for sure.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  Precisely. But what if you have capital to, to deploy, right?

• 36:22David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  And then you have a community willing to, like, give it, right? And then you have attention when you look into it and stuff, right? It's something, right? And obviously, Bong went through like tremendous ups and downs, right? Speaking recently and stuff, right? You know, right? Um, the autumn high, you know, amazing for them, right? You know, I love them. Yeah, I, I, I mean, long, long, so, so, and then, so, so that was like, so, and, and for a long time, there was like a Bong and other like smaller meme coins. But what they added to the mix, right? And then recently, obviously, the meme coin thing went crazy, right? You know, and recently, this meme coin thing went crazy, right? You know? Uh, went, went crazy. Uh, so, so, uh, so, so I, I would say now is the. Since a few months back, I think it was like the whole, it's pretty exciting because our volumes, not just us, but everyone's volume went up quite crazy, right? Because you had these like audience and meme coins, right?

• 37:08Speaker 01

  Like the top with hat, you know, like the Gen Z use Honda, obviously a piece, Jito and now Ju, right? Came out as well. I, I think what we're going to see is that like we are kind of entering the fourth phase, right? You know, whereby Ju and whereby you have like, like this, like I would call like really, really good projects that are all not launched tokens yet come to tokens, right? You know? So I, I feel really excited about that, you know? Because I think that all those tokens are going to bring a lot of excitement and vitality to the trading space, you know? Yeah.

• 37:41David Hoffman?

  Yeah. Mantle, formerly known as BitDow, is the first DAO-led Web3 ecosystem, all built on top of Mantle's first core product, the Mantle Network, a brand new, high-performance Ethereum Layer 2 built using the OP stack, but uses Eigenlayer's data availability solution instead of the expensive Ethereum Layer 1. Not only does this reduce Mantle Network's gas fees by 80%, but it also reduces gas fee volatility, providing a more stable foundation for Mantle's applications. The Mantle Treasury is one of the biggest DAO-owned treasuries, which is seeding an ecosystem of projects from all around the Web3 space for Mantle. Mantle already has sub-communities from around Web3 on-boarded, like Game7 for Web3 gaming and Bybit for TVL and liquidity and on-ramps. So if you want to build on the Mantle Network, Mantle is offering a grants program that provides milestone-based funding

• 38:26David Hoffman?

  to promising projects that help expand, secure and decentralize Mantle. If you want to get started working with the first DAO-led Layer 2 ecosystem, check out Mantle at mantle.xyz and follow them on Twitter at ZeroXMantle. Are you launching a token? Is it already live? How are you managing the legal and tax for providing token awards for your team? Toku simplifies everything about managing token grant compensation, and you can get started with them for free. You'll have access to top-notch legal and tax support to handle the distribution and management of tokens for your team. Toku caters to every step in the process, from user-friendly legal templates for granting tokens to tracking vesting periods and calculating withholding taxes. Toku understands every grant structure, token

• 39:08David Hoffman?

  Purchase agreements, restricted token awards, restricted token units, token options, and all the other ones. Toku is already simplifying this today for leading companies like Protocol Labs, DYDX Foundation, Mina Foundation, and many more. You can learn more about how Toku can help you streamline your token management and get started for free. Visit Toku at toku.com/banklist or click the link in the description below. So, part of the Jupiter token launch was the Jupiter Launchpad, which is one of the things that you announced at Solana Breakpoint. Now, Launchpads as a product, these are tried and true products in the crypto space. They even exist in the TradFi space. We just use banks for them. And so, this is just like a new primitive that Jupiter is bringing into the Solana ecosystem.

• 39:49David Hoffman?

  Can you talk about what the Launchpad does and then talk about how the Jupe token leveraged it?

• 39:56Speaker 01

  Okay, great. Thanks for asking. So, I think at Breakpoint, I announced the intention to build a Launchpad, right? Because I really, really wanted a Launchpad, right? Because I think, mainly because I think I wasn't too happy with existing Launchpads, in the sense that, I mean, you must be very familiar with the token Gator model, right? You know, whereby you had to hold FTT in order to buy the tokens, right? You know, and then they do, I consider, they do what we call a supply squeeze. That means that they actually limit the amount of supply available at the start, right? And ramp up the demand, right? You know, and so the FTT holders benefit, right? Because they think it goes like crazy, right? But obviously, you know, obviously, what happens

• 40:41Speaker 01

  is that later on, the people that buy, who believe in token the most, right, buys a token, right? Like, I'm dumb into, right? Things like that. So, you see these really big spikes, right? You know, and all that is caused by what I call the supply squeeze, right? You know, where you don't have enough supply in the market, right? Now, another model that is, another model, another launching model that is famous as well, is what we consider to be the, it's what I call the, I call them the isolated pool model, right? You know, whereby you, it's not an open market yet, right? Nobody put capital together, right? And this can be as simple as the ones that Mango did, which is like you had X number of, like, tokens in the market, X number of, like, USCC, and then the end pool is all you get, right?

• 41:24Speaker 01

  Or it can be like the LDP model, the balance of LDP model, where it's high, it's high, it's low, right? And then you have other models, like, you know, the, you allow multiple parties, you allow multiple parties, including addopers to put the tokens in. Many, many, there are many ways to do it, right? Um. But I think what I didn't like about that model, right, was that like it was impossible to predict what happens, right? Because think about it, right? Um. With that model, right, uh, with it, with with those isolated pool models, your most enthusiastic, um, believers, right, bind to that pool.

• 41:54David Hoffman?

  Hmm.

• 41:55Speaker 01

  Right? And then, uh, and then, uh, and then based on how fast the pool goes and stuff that, and then they did the price, uh, price forms, right? But then the the things that the the you, the your most enthusiastic believer stuff doesn't equate the market, right? You don't actually know how the market will react, right? And the ad drop meta, uh, and the ad drop thing, but which I I actually believe that the ad drop way, ad was the way to go. Right? In terms of like, it's just a fantastic way, right, of like rewarding users and benefiting, um, community, right? And I can get to that. That's a very important thing to get to, right? Um. But essentially, I think, uh, but and and then you add on to this ad drop thing, then you you just come for it, right? Well, how you go? So what, what? So the isolated pool model, right? You have this really big problem of like, okay, so quote unquote, you this, you have price discovery in the, in a very isolated pool, right?

• 42:41Speaker 01

  But then when you go to the market, it just goes down or go up, you don't know, and most I go down. Why? Why? Because, um, your most, your most active supporters already bought in the pool, right? Does that? But I so so I I think, um, so I think that that tho- tho- those are two things that I think, uh, so. And then, and then, uh, and then thirdly is that you have the ad meta, right? The ad drop, the ad drop, the ad drop thing is where the ad drop thing is where you just add up and they and they sell, right, in the market, right? I think, uh, that, I mean, that that works, uh, however, however, the the however, demand is extremely erratic. Right? You know, because I, and then, and furthermore, uh, and furthermore, like, uh, and furthermore, even and furthermore, uh, the liquidity tend to be very thin, right? So a big, um, a a big, a a big selling just down the right way, right? And then as a new token, you don't really want that, you know, especially if you're on chain.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  You know, you kind of want to, uh, and and and so you you kind of give your, yeah, so I so I think, I think, um. So I I think our launchpad is, okay, uh, our also our launchpad basically says that, okay, huh? Given that, um, given that the open market is the best way to discover tokens. Right, given that the team, given that the team, given that the team often needs capital, right, you know, but I want to do it in the most transparent way possible, right? And the least that given that we don't know, given that we don't know what the demand, what the demand dynamic looks like, right? You know, maybe a lot of dumping, but no one's buying, right, this and that. But how do we develop a launchpad, right? That is relevant, you know, for this like a new meta of like, you know, open market discovery, sufficient liquidity, right, you know, and also team capital, you know?

• 44:08Speaker 01

  So that was the basis I ran on the building this launchpad, yeah.

• 44:11David Hoffman?

  Okay, so for the price discovery of the Jupe token, like what were some of the economics on launch? Like what did that look like using the launchpad and for the Jupe token?

• 44:21Speaker 01

  So essentially, I think there were, there were, there were three components, there were three components to it, right? You know, so the, the first component is obviously, so the, we call it LFG launchpad, right?

• 44:31David Hoffman?

  Nice.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what I go, right? Essentially, everybody starts at the same slot, right? So everybody starts at the same slot, right? So basically, the airdroppers can same and sell, right? People can, people can, people can buy into the pool, right? You know, at the same time. So what we do is that we set up, so the, the way, the way the Jupiter LFG platform works is that projects can set up a price curve, a liquidity curve, right? A sell, a sell only pool, right? A sell only pool. It, it, it actually works exactly like providing liquidity on, on any, anywhere with, with, with only CRM or DRM, right, but you set up one side liquidity, right? And, but, but, but there are two differences here, right?

• 45:13Speaker 01

  The first difference is that we have a tool that allows the user to specify three things, right? The project, the three things. The project specifies the initial price, the max price and the curve, right? So a stick performance looks like this, right? That means that, okay, your initial price, your initial price can be low, but it goes high really fast, right? A low curve goes like this, right? You know, so I think, so I think for Jupiter, I think we set up a pool that looks like this, right? The initial price was like point four, right? Which was like a half, roughly half or about. A slightly more than half of the of the post price, you know, and then the max price was point seven.

• 45:46David Hoffman?

  Hmm. So your own, the Jupiter perps product allowed for some amount of price discovery ahead of the launch?

• 45:52Speaker 01

  Oh, no, no, no, other, other.

• 45:55David Hoffman?

  Other people's, other people's.

• 45:57Speaker 01

  Our perps are, our perps only, our perps only does, um, token that exists.

• 46:02David Hoffman?

  Oh, okay, right, okay, so there's other perps like AVO on Ethereum, I think maybe you had, uh, the, okay, so you had some information about what the market was pricing ahead of time.

• 46:11Speaker 01

  AVO, so we're two, we're two information points, right? Um, but it's just, it's just so fast, but guys, I'm so happy, by the way, because, uh, I feel like so interesting, it's so interesting to kind of think about this thing, right? Because, um, but, but, uh, sorry, sorry, I'm, I'm, I'm getting a bit too excited.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  So let, let me just show you this here. Yeah, so, so, so there are two places of, um, there are two points of like, uh, of point discovery, right? The first was AVO, right, uh, which was, and then the second was a real, real market, right, real market, right? So those two things allow us to, um, so, so these two things, uh, and honestly, they, they went to big fluctuations, right? You know, in the, in the month, in the, in the previous, like, you know, in over the last, last few weeks, you know, of the thing, right? So, uh, but the, um, but, uh, uh, uh, anyway, anyway, I think, um, but again, we are very new to this, right? It's like, we are, we, okay, so one thing I kept, one thing I kept emphasizing my tweets was that, uh, we are using Juke as an experiment for Launchpad, right?

• 47:05David Hoffman?

  Right, right, dog eating, right?

• 47:07Speaker 01

  The, the, the reason I'm asking for is that a lot of people are, okay, honestly, I got a lot of shit for that, right? Because, oh, why don't you launch in December when the hype was so, not so high, right? Why don't you just launch a token, right? And the reason we did not just go was this, right? It's like, if I didn't build a Launchpad, uh, if I didn't launch using my own Launchpad, right? Then how can I ask any project to use a Launchpad, right? It's not possible, right?

• 47:30David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 47:30Speaker 01

  You know, so I think, I think that was a, so what, what people don't realize is that we actually didn't spend, like, we actually spent the whole of January bringing on. So, so, so, and, and, and I can't tell you people, and, and, and, and David, I'm telling you, I learned so many lessons. So many lessons, and a lot of the, um, a lot of the backlash that you see about Launchpad is, is a result of lessons, right? You know, like lessons in communications, I learned a lot, I can, I, I apologize if I didn't communicate properly, I really do, okay? Uh, and secondly, I, I apologize, uh, if people didn't understand mechanics enough, right? Which is why I'm hoping all these shows to try and explain it, right? You know, but I need to back to the point, so, um, um, but it's, but I need to point that Jube is, is a lot, is, we experimented, right? You know, and, uh, I can talk more about the price curve later on, because that's very important, okay?

• 48:13Speaker 01

  But anyway, uh, but we have this tool to, um, uh, the mind, our interbuild it, right? You know, uh, uh, this tool to, uh, allow you to turn a, um, a simple price curve with three parameters. Initial, max, and curve, right? And it'll show you how much, uh, you, you translate into a graph to show you how much you raised, uh, how, how, how much, how much, how much your system position start in moment, you get in your moment, right? So you, you, you create, and then you, you pass us, you pass a team these parameters, and the team will load the, um, the token, the coin to these parameters. Right. Right, that's how it works, right? So I think, uh, but I, I think it sounds a bit abstract, so let me break down for you in detail what happened in the logic launch, okay? Uh, by the way, uh, David, I'll, I'll share something with you, um, I actually described a lot of these mechanics in theory. It over many long posts, right?

• 48:58Speaker 01

  Um, but I, I think it's very hard for people to understand, kind of like, uh, the, this, this thing, and don't get me wrong, it's not just them, it's me too, right? If I, if I, if I read something, I don't understand it, right? But if I see something happen, I get it, right? You know, so I think, uh, so let's, so let, let me, let me break down what happened during the launch, okay? So, uh, at, at a certain slot, right? Slot, so, uh, sauna is a slot, right? You know, uh, interior is a book, right? You know, slot, so at a certain slot, these, uh, these are the going, right? You know, right, um, and then, so people go over the claim, right? You know, um, and then the, the market started moving, right? And we, we severely, we, we severely, um, we severely, we severely trotted the first side of your first few, uh, slots to prevent too much voting, right? You know, but otherwise anyone, uh, otherwise anyone can buy, uh, uh, otherwise anyone can buy and sell, right? Into the thing, right?

• 49:40Speaker 01

  But anyway, but anyway, what happened was that the, the, and what happened was that like, uh, and so that, then there's also a lot of bots, right? Um, going to the pool and taking in liquidity, right? Because, um, the first part of liquidity was always cheaper, much cheaper, right? So, so, so, so in many ways, what we did was that, uh, we, we, we, we as a team offered tokens for sale, right? Starting at, starting at point four, to point seven. Right, you know, but remember it's an open market pool by the way, right? It's not a pro-sugar pool, right? But everyone was interacting at the same time. Claimers were dumping, right? And then they put it down into right away, right? You could dump, you could dump tokens in right away. Right? And, and, and that's actually, that's actually very important, right? Because that actually gave a real time view, right? Of, of like what's actually happening, right?

• 50:25Speaker 01

  You know, that, that, that's what, let's fucking go, right? It was our G, right? And I was actually very intense because as, as, as a price, so initially the price only increased, right? You know, which what does it mean? It means that it, it, it meant the, the price has kept increasing initially, right? Which means that initially people, there were a lot of people who were willing to buy it for this sense, right? And not enough people dumping it and not people, not enough people selling it for this sense, right? You know? And then, uh, and then, and then at some point, the, the, and then, and then it, and it came crazy, right? And then at some point, the, and then at some point, the, the centralized action just as well, right? You know, uh, and then, uh, but, but, and then it got all, and then, and then we, and then we started seeing quite a bit of selling. Right now at the, uh, at the, I think when it hit like fifty, fifty seven cents, sixty seven cents, you know, right?

• 51:05Speaker 01

  I, I think, and then I think it went to like, I think it went to, uh, it went to about seventy seven cents, right? Somewhere else and then it's at the backtracking, right? And the backtracking, right? Basically the demand, uh, ba- ba- basically, uh, base, um, ba- ba- basically, uh, basically people started selling more than they're buying, right? You know, at like the seventy, seventy, seventy mark, right? And then, and then, uh, so, so we didn't, we actually didn't finish the pool, right? We were like two million, there was two million juke left in the pool, right? You know, and started retreating, right? Back to like sixty five cents and then it, and then, and then, and then, and throughout the, and throughout the last two days, it has been over two days now. It has been like going this range, you know?

• 51:41David Hoffman?

  It's actually been like relatively stable of a price and it, it, to me, it's actually been kind of incredible because like Uniswap is currently valued at something like four or five or six billion dollars. And Uniswap's on like the bigger network. Uh, granted, Uniswap is only one application. It's an AMM and Jupiter has many more like apps on it. But being valued above like Uniswap is like pretty monumental. So like, in my mind, you tell, you tell me like.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  Were you above? I don't think we are above.

• 52:06David Hoffman?

  Uh, Uniswap, aren't you?

• 52:09Speaker 01

  No, we have eight hundred million market cap now or something.

• 52:12David Hoffman?

  Oh, I'm talking about fully diluted valuation. I always talk about fully diluted valuation.

• 52:16Speaker 01

  I mean, it doesn't mean, right?

• 52:17David Hoffman?

  Yeah, it, yeah, it is a meme, but yeah, but I mean, it's what people, it's the price that people are able to get, right?

• 52:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, but.

• 52:23David Hoffman?

  Eight hundred and twenty-five million dollar market cap, fully diluted, uh, six billion.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, around that, around that stuff. So, so, so I mean, but, but let, do you mind if I finish something?

• 52:32David Hoffman?

  Sure, yeah, sorry, go ahead, yeah.

• 52:33Speaker 01

  Sorry, that's important for me to explain this, right? Is that the, the reason, um, so, so the, the pool actually worked as intended, right? Because what the pool does is that like, it, it created a, um, it created a, uh, it created a, a backstop.

• 52:47David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 52:47Speaker 01

  Right? It like, so people can sell into, right? And, and that's actually very important for three reasons, right? Number one is that like, you know, airdropers that wanted to sell their tokens always has to create a sell into. And, and, and, and, and that to me was important. I mean, I don't know why, but to me that's important, right? You know, right? But otherwise it's not a real present, right? You know, if you're doing this, right? And, and, and, and, and secondly is that, and, and secondly is that, um, I believe, right? I, I don't know yet, right? But my, my belief is that it gives buyers a lot of confidence, right? Because if, if liquidity is very, very thin, right? And you have very big airdrops, right? Remember, we are giving away, one, one thing remember is this, right? We are giving away like, um, at current, six hundred million.

• 53:22David Hoffman?

  Right, so the airdrop was ten percent of the total supply, right? So, total supply is ten billion, you gave away, uh, one billion?

• 53:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, one billion, right? So, it, it, it's just understand is that, like, for example, one billion tokens, right? One billion tokens are available claiming, right? You know, so basically, and, and there was some, like, and, and there was some, as I mentioned, the farm as well, the farm that claimed two million tokens, right? So, they, he literally dumped a million, right? Into the, in, right? So, in any other, um, model, you will see the price go through crazy fluctuations. Right, crazy, right? Because there's no, there's no pool, there's no new pool that can take a million. No way, no way, right? You know, but what happens at this pool, because it had a lot of capital built up, right? You know, it was able to absorb the damage, right? Basically, it gets, it also gets buyer's confidence too, right? And they're, okay, cool, okay, I can, I can buy into this pool without getting wrecked, right? And, and, and, and certainly that's what people told me, right?

• 54:13Speaker 01

  You know, and I, I don't have any like scientific proof for it, but it makes sense to me, you know, right?

• 54:17David Hoffman?

  I mean, like, it's definitely, it's just somebody, uh, you're much more like familiar with just like mo- markets and, and just like what goes on under the hood. But somebody, I look at charts, I can tell a stable chart from an unstable chart. And looking at the Jupiter chart, that is a stable chart. Like that is not crazy.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  It's crazy, it's crazy. It literally went like, it went, it literally followed the exactly the the liquidity curve and just got away and that's it. Got away and just came up and then just stabilizing. And I just said yesterday, yesterday, when there was a lot of like, you know, criticism, right? And a lot of like, oh, I I consider them like, you know, ununresearched, you know, uh, uh, comments. I I think, uh, and, uh, um, like, um, it it it went down a lot, right? But then, but it didn't go crazy, it didn't go all the way down, right? You know, because there was, and then because there was enough, like, you know, people who could be in that, right? You know, yeah, that's it, you know, and so, so I think, um, so I think, um, so I think at the end of the day, I feel like it's a a good system. Because the people, the people that bought the tokens early, right? They believe that that was, that was the price they were going to pay, right?

• 55:16Speaker 01

  You know, and, uh, and they're probably right, you know, and and then, uh, and and suddenly in our case, it's like it didn't go too far in, right? You know, it was like it stayed in a relatively high range, right? Uh, and secondly is that, um, thi- this pool is team liquidity, okay? But, uh, the the team, and this is not just for Jupiter, right? We are also, as I mentioned, we are experimenting, right? So for all Launchpad projects, right? We are locking in for seven days, right? So any project that uses Launchpad, the condition is that they must lock the liquidity for seven days, right? That means that, uh, any, anybody that, that means that if the, if the founder goes crazy and starts like dancing naked in Times Square, you know?

• 55:55David Hoffman?

  Do you have these plans?

• 55:59Speaker 01

  I don't know, I can't tell. But yeah, but, but, but, but whatever the case is, whether there's always some like big news, right? Stuff, right? You know, there's also there's seven days, right? For the price to stabilize, right? You know, before the liquidity, before liquidity can take an out, right? You know, right? So I think, I think it also acts as a backstop pool, right? You know, for stabilizing and things like that. Obviously, I think it's up to the team and we have our plan to do so, right? Um, certainly when you take out a lot of liquidity, but it depends, for example, the, the price could be way above it already, right? So taking out liquidity doesn't matter, right? You know, uh, but or it could be still within a range, right? You know, like Jupiter, like for example, for Ju- for Ju, right? It looks like it might be within a range, right? When they get out, right? So we, we, we have to be very careful, right? About communications. Okay, we communicate very carefully, okay? But how we're going to do, and and that's my bad. So.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  That's actually my bad. Okay.

• 56:45David Hoffman?

  So maybe can we just unpack this a little bit more? Okay, so there's the initial bootstrapping liquidity, which is the mechanism that we've been talking about that's producing the price discovery for Jupiter. This is part of the Launchpad product. This is also where Jupiter, the team, gets some of its funding in the future, but it's locked for seven days. Is this all, is this all correct?

• 57:06Speaker 01

  Yes, David, so let me, do you mind if I clarify something? It's pretty important for me. So it's also quite hard to understand. It's not hard to understand, but it's obvious, but no shame to you. So the curve, the price curve that we have is not price discovery, because there's a lot of jumping elsewhere, everything, the price curve going everywhere. Okay, but it is, it is, what it does is that it ensures a lot of, it ensures sufficient liquidity at every price point, right? Now, remember what I talked earlier, right? About, about the supply squeeze? Right? Where you, where you, where, where, where the Launchpad suppresses supply? Right? You know, in order to create the spike, which benefits a small cell people. I hate that. I really don't like that, right?

• 57:51Speaker 01

  You know, I really don't like that, you know, because I think, I think what that leads is to, it leads to a system whereby like the people that, so I call this anti, again, I'm trying to figure something, I'm trying to, it might not, it might not work, right? But I want to do a anti-formal, anti-formal thing whereby along every single step of the way, right? You know, there is sufficient liquidity, you know, right? And that's what Jupiter, right? Jupiter, it was priced low initially, and a mistake that made was I should price lower. Okay, so I made a bunch of mistakes, but it's okay because future projects can learn, you know? But I think for me, I did a few mistakes. I should price it at like point two five and point five, you know, right? But I think, and the result, I was scared of being bought, right? But I think I was too scared of being bought, right?

• 58:35Speaker 01

  But the long, long, long story short is that along every single, so it's not really price discovery, but more like. Um, we thi- this curve is there to make sure that there's um sufficient supply.

• 58:48David Hoffman?

  Hmm.

• 58:48Speaker 01

  At every step of the price discovery, so it doesn't go crazy. You know what I'm saying? Right?

• 58:54David Hoffman?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  Uh, that's how it was.

• 58:56David Hoffman?

  Yeah, like secondary discovery or like.

• 58:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, secondary like stable discovery.

• 59:01David Hoffman?

  Right, yeah, sure. Okay, and so this is the liquidity coming in from the Jupiter, um, like the Jupiter team, would you call it? Cause you're the Jupiter team is supplying the juke tokens. And then out over that seven day period, this juke tokens get sold for uh USDC or Solana or like what's the other half? USDC?

• 59:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:21David Hoffman?

  Okay, and this liquidity is locked for seven days.

• 59:24Speaker 01

  Yes, so basically the team, uh, so basically the, okay, the, okay, so another mistake that I made in communications, right?

• 59:31David Hoffman?

  Hmm.

• 59:31Speaker 01

  Is that I used the word, um, I, I, I, I wasn't careful about how I was using the words, right? Um, and I, I didn't, I also didn't appreciate how, um, I also didn't appreciate how, um, like, uh, how, um, like how LP, single sided LP. So I, I, I kept in my long blog post, I was very technical, right? I said that, uh, single sided LP and blah, blah, blah, oh, sure, I didn't, didn't answer all those things, so it's my bad. You know, I didn't, I didn't communicate well, right? Uh, and I think that led to a lot of like, uh, misunderstandings, it's my, it's probably my bad. But by the way, long, but long, but long story short is that the team provided, and by the way, uh, one thing I would really encourage everyone to check out. Because we really spent a lot of, a lot, like immense amount of time on, right? It's our token accountability, okay?

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  Uh, we, we really can't spend our time making sure that every single juke is like accounted for. You know, so I would encourage everyone to check, check those things out, okay? And we also labeled all the, you know, all the wallets and everything very, very close, very clearly. So anyone that wants to track anything that goes in now, they can just track it very easily, okay? Yeah, but in, in, but in, in our case, right, we, in our case, in our case, right, I think, um. Um. We had about uh, we had about three point five percent of tokens. That was taken out. So, so, so we have four, uh, we have four, um, community observed wallets, okay? Code, the team code, community code, team, uh, team, what is it, community, what is it, right? So those are the community observed wallets, right? And we consider those to be not part of the circulating, okay?

• 1:00:56David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  So, um, so, so as part of that, we took out, uh, so as part of that, we took out ten percent. We took out ten percent, right, you know, for the, for the, um, the add-on. Right? So that's considered circulating, right? We also took out three by five percent, right, you know, right? And of which two point five percent went to the, the pool.

• 1:01:14David Hoffman?

  Okay.

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  Right? The, the pool, right, you know? And then, uh, and then, so, so that was the, and then we had fifty, uh, we have point five percent, uh, for, um, uh, MM loans. And other sex, and MM and other sex needs. Uh, and then, uh, and then, uh, we, and then we have point five for, um, in case we needed, in case the pool ran out and we need to provide liquidity, uh, uh, to other systems, right, urgently, urgently, right, you know, right? So, so, so that is the extent, right, of our, of other tokens that we had. Yeah. And, and, and long, long, long story short, that, long, long story, yeah, so, huh, um, there, there, there is a thirteen point, there is, um, one point three five billion right now in circulating, right, you know? Uh, ten percent is add-on already, I think sixty-nine percent is claim ready, I think? Right? So, uh, it's claim ready, right?

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  So I think, uh, but we consider all the in circulating, okay? Uh, and then, uh, we had about, and then we have about, um, yeah, and then two point five percent is in the, um, and, and two, two, two, I would say, in the pool right now. And so about, I would say eighty percent of the tokens are, are already, uh, have been, is, so the, the pool right now, I, I think about eighty percent or eighty-five percent is USCC, right? Uh, and the rest are juke tokens, right? But anyway, anyway, um, so anyway, and that, so assuming the price remains the, the same, right, you know? Uh, at the end of seven days, the team, which is us in this case, has the right to take the tokens away. Actually, honestly, we're three days, right? Oh, it's three days, but then I think we are making seven days, okay? So because I think.

• 1:02:38David Hoffman?

  How, how much total value is that?

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  Total value, I mean, in USDC, there's about hundred in there right now, ninety eight, I know, ninety eight. But that's actually the price stays, right?

• 1:02:48David Hoffman?

  Current prices, correct.

• 1:02:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, because the way it was just simple, right? It's like the, another mantra is just simple, right? We believe that the team should, again, I'm trying to develop a model, not just for Jupiter, right? But a model, I think, of me as a part, as a retail participant and as an ecosystem player on the C, right? Which is, okay, the team should get whatever the price set us at, you know, right? Not the peak price or whatever, not right, because I think, okay, I mean, we all know what happens in these kind of situations, right? The, the, the surprise squeeze and the ding palms and then the team shouts at top. You know, very, very common, right? You know, things like that. So, so, so that's, that's not, we're, we're the opposite of that, right?

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  Basically, we're the opposite of that, right? You know, basically, the, the team only gets, which is very simple, right? Now, if the price, if, if, if I, if the price set us at point seven, set us at point seven and stuff, then I think, then that team will get, I think, hundred and twenty five million, right, in USDC, right? But if the price set us at like, right now is ninety eight, point five is at fifty, and then go on, so on and so forth, right? Things like that, you know, right? So, so we are like, so essentially, I think, I think that's fair. To me, that's fair, you know? But, but remember, we, we, we actually took a pretty big risk in pricing at point four to point seven, right? Um, actually, we should price it lower, right? You know, yeah, because that will have, that will actually have reduced, um, but again, I think, I, I regret over

• 1:04:08Speaker 01

  compensating for bots, because there were so many bots on social media that are bragging that they're going to retire all you and shit, you know, right? So I think, I, I, no, no, seriously, so, so I was like, okay, fuck it, right? So I think, I wanted to avoid the, the nightmare of like having the early thing all being gobbled up, you know, right? But on hindsight, I feel like I could have done like point, point two five, two point five, and that'd be fine. You know, yeah, so I think, I think, but, but it's okay, I'll, I'll give this project, I'll give advice to projects, right? You know, in the future, you know, right? But I think, I think we did actually, um, Uh, yeah, that's all I think about it. Yeah. You know, but it's good essence, yeah.

• 1:04:39David Hoffman?

  So a- at the end of the seven days, uh, do you have a- any, what- what are your plans? Are you just, uh, when you have the window open to take liquidity? Are you just gonna take, like, uh, what are the, what are the, what are the plans here? Are you gonna take all of it or like a little bit? Like, what's the deal?

• 1:04:53Speaker 01

  I don't know yet. I don't know yet.

• 1:04:54David Hoffman?

  No plans.

• 1:04:55Speaker 01

  I don't know yet. No plans yet. I- I feel like, but I- I think what I'll do is I'll communicate very clearly what I'm gonna do. You know, I think, I feel like the, I feel like the, the important thing here is for me not to change anything right now. Right? You know, but I- I don't know where it's gonna be at, right? If it's at point seven and point four, it's very simple plans, right? But then, so- so I think that's, that's very nice. I feel that's the nice thing about this model, right? Is that you are literally letting the market, um, do things, decide for you, right? You know, before you actually, uh, uh, push it out, right? I think, I think it's great. Um, I- I mean, any long, long, long story short is that, um, long story short is that I don't know, because I don't know I can set that. Right? It could be point four, point five or point seven. I don't know, right? But one thing's for sure, uh, I think, uh, I think one thing's for sure, right, is that, um, uh, I, I'm not gonna sell a single trip.

• 1:05:41Speaker 01

  Okay? And if you do that, it's not sold, right? You know, we'll go right back into the, the, and it, it will stay there. Okay? And, and, okay? And but obviously, if I, if I point four, I don't sell anything, right? You know, that might need to do some, that, that might need to do some OTC, right? Obviously, you know, right? You know, but I'll be open about it. I'll be like, hey, um, I didn't, I didn't get any, I didn't get any stables here. Right? You know, I'll need to, we'll send you a CC here. I think, I think, I think the community will understand, you know, right? You know, yeah, it's fine, you know, right? But obviously, point seven, then I might do something else. So I, I think it all depends. But I think, but what I'll do is, uh, once I have a clear signal of like what it's gonna be, you know, right? Then I think I will over communicate, you know? I learned my lesson, you know, things like that. Yeah, that's it, yeah.

• 1:06:21David Hoffman?

  Let's talk about, um, the load on the Solana network. So Solana didn't miss a block, it didn't go down, which is, uh, under, under stress, which is great. Uh, there were some failed transactions. There were people were talking about not being able to get some of their transactions through. How, how would you, uh, give a report card a grade to the performance of the Solana network during the launch of, uh, of the token?

• 1:06:41Speaker 01

  Uh, I mean, I would say it's great. I mean, I would say it's great. I think, um, I would say it's great. Um. I would say that um I would say that um Solana has improved a lot, right? You know, through the through the days, right? I think there was one, one point one seven was wrong recently, right? Actually, we actually timed the job launch to happen after one point one seven. Because there was actually a lot of like improvements, including some algo box and also some CP, CU limit improvements, right? Uh, similar competition improvements. Uh, I think, I think one point eighteen is coming out soon, which will really make the local fee markets a lot more effective. Right? You know, so I think in many ways, I think we are, it's it's very nice for us to like stress as network, you know? So I think ideally, every single launchpad with stress as network, you know, right? What's actually interesting was that a lot of other things broke.

• 1:07:27Speaker 01

  Right? For example, uh, for example, some waters, for example, some waters didn't work as well, you know? Um, and some of our systems, because we were overstressing the sound, our, but it's not a Solana's problem, right? It's that we, we were overstressing our own RPCs.

• 1:07:41David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  Right? You know, with the orders, right? And we were trying to fill those orders, right? But we were stressing, but it's actually our bad, because for example, right, instead of um, um, instead of like pre-caching a lot of the orders, because we knew what those orders were already, right? So we, we could have like cashed them beforehand and then like execute them, right? Instead, we were like fetching and runtime, right? Which created a reload, and that's just reload on our network as well. So we just fucked up, you know, a lot of things. Anyway, but, but, um, so, uh, I would say the network itself went pretty well. I would say that, um, I would say that like, uh, a, a, a lot of like, um, a lot of other, other infra stuff didn't work that well, you know, right? But it's good.

• 1:08:17David Hoffman?

  Okay, so the, the core of Solana, which is the actual Solana network, did just fine. Maybe the next concentric circle out, which is the RPC layer around Solana, still needs some improvement?

• 1:08:27Speaker 01

  It's more like how people use RPCs. RPCs are fine, but how, but how people use that fine, like they didn't scale out appropriately or the load balance didn't work properly, things like that, right? And the core network thing, I would say that like, uh, there's still some errors in terms of like, this is still hard to estimate, yes. Like, what was the right guess to use, you know, right? But generally speaking, uh, I, I think, I think the core network went up, went up pretty well, you know, like everything saw a big spike, obviously. But, but, but, but remember this, right?

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  What's actually interesting was this, because we price at point four, right? Which is a lever that, um, people that like Jupiter would buy, but not something that spammer bots would necessarily buy, right? So we didn't, we didn't actually get as aggressive. Uh, if you went like, cause orig, orig, orig, it was go to one tenth of my utopian, originally my, my utopian idea for, was to, was to start one time, let's go, right? A one time will be, uh, uh, one, one, one, one ten will actually be, um, a lot of like, a lot, then, then we get spam like crazy, right? In many ways, right? So I think, yeah, that, that, that, that, that's the reason, yeah.

• 1:09:28David Hoffman?

  Okay, so, uh, at the end of this seven day period, in, in theory, the Jupiter team will have capital, uh, be able to, uh, enter the next phase of Jupiter team.

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  Hopefully.

• 1:09:39David Hoffman?

  Hopefully, yeah, right. Yeah. In, in the ideal scenario, this is like the plan, like there are some edge conditions we can talk about, but just like, uh, the whole idea is like Jupiter now has capital to enter the next phase of its development. Uh, what are the next phases for Jupiter? What, what does the roadmap look, uh, look like moving forward?

• 1:09:56Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  I think, uh, first of all, I think it's what improving infra, right? You know, our, our, our, our core, our core products, right? So I think, I think, uh, um, I mean, a lot of things are incredibly boring, by the way. Like we scale out our customer support team.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  I'm not kidding, very seriously, like I, I literally spent like one month.

• 1:10:17David Hoffman?

  People, people love teams with customer support teams in crypto.

• 1:10:20Speaker 01

  I spent one month on this shit, man. It's not easy, something every day, making sure everything is in, getting everybody in and stuff like, so I mean, like, some, some fucking stupid shit, man. It's like, I'm not kidding, I'm not fucking kidding, man. Like I, I spent so much time on suspicious remember, like, I started thinking about it, it's not stupid. It's just, uh, what, what people might consider not, not exciting, right? You know, right? But to me, like, to me, we spent, we are very proud of this, right? We reply to everything, I do, and things like that. So we spent time on like, and we also need, we also need people who actually can answer questions, can reblock chains, right? And I, I think, I think having a, a, a high EQ, so I'm, I'm, I'm going, I'm going pretty boring, okay? Um, so, very, okay? But, uh, my, my, one of my big goals is to have a high EQ, high IQ support team, right? You know, that is able to do the engineers, right? And the, and the users as well, right? Because things, things get pretty fire away, right?

• 1:11:04Speaker 01

  You know, and God is very, uh, people might not know what they're doing, right? You know, right? And then, uh, and then if you get into, so you need to have a high EQ to handle them, handle these complaints, but also high IQ to understand what's going on, right? So I think my, my goal is to have a high IQ, high IQ, uh, support team, right? You know, that is able to drop products, right? First, here's a problem. If you don't have, and also to report the issues to engineers, right, so they can actually see the problem, right? Uh, because the, the reason is, I feel like, um. When we first started, the, we had, we had a very small number of users, right? So, um, the, the, in, the user interfacing the engineers is good now, they're done, right? But then in this case, as the number of product scale and stuff, and, and the engineers remain relatively small, right? Uh, you can't do that, right? So what you need is that you need that layer, you know, to, to allow the users to allow the engineers to feel, still feel the pain.

• 1:11:49Speaker 01

  But also handle the, also let them do that stuff, right? So I think trying to build a layer is very, very important. Okay, so that's the first thing we want to do, okay? I want to make sure that we have an extremely, um, good, like, uh, uh, uh, you know, like, a, a community team. Right? That's able to kind of like, you know, address the community, address the use, uh, complaints and things like that. But I, I didn't, I mean, we, we, we can, we, we, we can grow money, right? I mean, grow money here, you know, like, to, maybe to, maybe to ask like. You know, hire a box is not such a big deal, right? You know, but to someone else, it's a huge deal, right? And so I think we have to, we have to be sensitive to that, right? Yeah, that's something. The, the second thing we are building is, um, the second thing I'm building is that I think, uh, we definitely want to improve our core products. We feel like we have, we, we feel that across, um, I feel that across, um.

• 1:12:29Speaker 01

  Uh, we, we, we're across our, um, across, uh, so, uh, across, uh, swap, uh, limited order, D C A, gateway, perks and launch, launch chat. Those are a very, um, comprehensive set of, um, features, right, for the on, for, uh, on exchange already, right? So I don't think the next step, so I think ninety percent of the effort would not be new products, right? You know, but just be, okay, making sure that those things are, are good and getting better. Right? You know, every single day, you know, so that's the, the second key focus, right? And obviously, we do actually want to experiment in new things as well, right? You know, so I think, uh, and, and this, and, and this includes a running, uh, uh, scaling our infra. You know, like, uh, uh, uh, infra, like, uh, uh, and getting involved with sauna call. Right? Which is something that we haven't been able to do because we haven't had the capital to do it.

• 1:13:11Speaker 01

  Right? Now, but if you do, but if you do all the, if you, if you do all with this, um, with this initial launch, right? Then we will definitely have the capital to kind of like, you know, get a couple of in-house of sauna, um, like, to build a water and sauna for Futham.

• 1:13:23David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 1:13:23Speaker 01

  Right, you know, yeah, and also to also to build up some caution expertise as well. Right, you know, because I actually I personally have been very interested in caution for a while now. Right, I think I think we are definitely going to focus 100% on sauna in the home, right, in our Jupiter. Right, you know, but at the same time, the man mentions around, right? You know, so how do we kind of like better and I'm not a chain maxi, by the way. You know, I'm not a chain maxi, right? I do believe that focusing the product and ecosystem building on sauna is the right thing to do. And also, obviously, I know the ecosystem, right? They'd be very nice to me. At the same time, I think it's very important to connect with other ecosystems as well. Right, and also try to figure out what's the best to do that is important for me, you know? So those are things that I want to have people, a team to work on as well.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, so you know, so those, so those two things, like making sure that we scale up in terms of, so in summary, three things, right? Make sure we scale up in terms of the basics, right, you know, like the and like the community. And to me, one important basic that the engineers would grow because they need more people, so they will grow on their own, right? But then what no one would, no one would explicitly do unless someone do really push that, right? You know, it's this like community, community support, right? So I'm also that my focus and you know, engineers do do hire them, do do the hiring, alright?

• 1:14:38David Hoffman?

  Yeah, okay, so the hiring, you guys are going to be hiring for a bunch of roles. If people are interested in those roles, what types of people are you looking for?

• 1:14:49Speaker 01

  Um, different, different, different. I think we're interested in like, we're interested in people with proven, like people with proven expertise in, in. I mean, there are two kinds, right? The first kind is that you can, the first kind is you're generally, this way you can learn, right? And and and that's the, and then that's kind of the high, high E2, high Q guys I was talking about, right? In this or that, right? You know, so that's the first category, you know, right? And very often, those guys are sourced from a community that tend to be great. I think the second ones are those that have proven expertise, whether it's in terms of like running infra, like running high, like running high skill like infra, sauna infra, right? Or having like, or being like, or contributed to the sauna call work, right? You know, right? So so do those two sets of people, yeah.

• 1:15:34David Hoffman?

  Beautiful, beautiful. Well, yeah, it's always a big day when you launch a token, so congrats on that. If people want to just learn more about Jupiter, or maybe some Ethereum people want to use Jupiter for the first time, where would you send people?

• 1:15:46Speaker 01

  Uh, okay, so thanks for asking, appreciate it. Um, go to ju- uh, J U, ju. ag, J U P dot A G. That's our, uh, that's our, that's our, um, our site.

• 1:15:57David Hoffman?

  J U P dot A G, Jupiter aggregator, is that what that is?

• 1:16:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, dot A, yeah, and then, and then there's a gateway, and there's a, and then, and then there's a gateway, um, there's a bridge or gateway, um, link there, go to. And over there you can find all of the different ways, right? You can bring this one out, right? We have this like comparator, where I can compare, um, can compare what's the best way between different bridges, right? You know, to bring all, can put in, right? Or can do it via credit card, or can do it via, um, or can do it, or, or can, or can bridge, or can bridge it in as well, right? And I guess I'm so, so that, so we have a very comprehensive, comprehensive way for you to, um, bridge this one out, right? You know, and if you're interested in, uh, if you're interested in learning more about the things I was discussing, right? You can, you can check out my Twitter, or even, or for more concise information, look at, uh, I shit talk a lot on Twitter, right? Uh, but I can check out ju. dot research, right?

• 1:16:45Speaker 01

  You know, and, uh, ju. dot ju. research, uh, I, I, I, I copy if research here, okay? So it's literally J U P R E A, R E A R dot C H, okay?

• 1:16:55David Hoffman?

  We'll get, we'll get all these links into the show notes for, for listeners who just wanna.

• 1:16:58Speaker 01

  But, but the, the ju. research is very sad, because that's actually, okay? I'm, I'm personally committed to doing two things, okay? Uh, I'm personally, I'm, I'm actually very apologetic to, uh, for all the, um, the, the, the misunderstandings out there. So I'm, I'm personally apologetic, uh, for that, so, uh, I'm committed to writing, to doing two things, right? To writing out a lot of the, um, information into, into the research post, and also to, um, to post a simplified version, okay? You know, on, on, on Twitter as well, so I'll do those things, yeah.

• 1:17:27David Hoffman?

  Okay, well, meow, thank you so much. Where, where did the name meow come from?

• 1:17:31Speaker 01

  Oh my god, okay, um, first of all, I wish, I wish I loved cats, you know, check, check it out.

• 1:17:36David Hoffman?

  Of course, yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:37Speaker 01

  The cat stuff, but, um, yeah, so actually my name is, my, my, my full name is actually very similar to meow. Very similar to meow, so it just, um, came out together, you know? And then I think, uh, it's, it's just fun, you know, because not everyone like founders, right? But everyone loves cats, no, right? So.

• 1:17:54Speaker 01

  I mean, like, not everyone like tech bros, right? You know, but everyone loves cats. I said, okay, sure. It's more mainstream.

• 1:18:00David Hoffman?

  All right. Yeah. Well, once again, congrats on the the token launch and thanks for coming on the bankless, bankless nation and telling us your story.

• 1:18:07Speaker 01

  One more thing. Thank, a big fan of yours. So I thank, uh, really thank you so much for bridging, bridging the two worlds. I know how high it is for you to bridge the two worlds because I, you know, there's a lot of things going on, but I really appreciate it for, for doing that, you know, and, and to everyone Ethereum, I would say that like, you know, I, Ethereum was my home for a long time, right? You know, and I continue to really appreciate community. The research community is like way ahead of anybody else, right? You know, and the amount of like decentralization there is amazing as well, right? Things like that. You know, so I continue to be a very big fan, you know, even though I do most of it now. Yeah, as I say.

• 1:18:41David Hoffman?

  Of course, of course. Thanks, Miao. Bankless Nation, you guys know the deal. Crypto is risky. DeFi is risky. New tokens are risky. Everything's risky here. But sometimes that's why we're here, because we're headed west. This is the frontier. It's up for everyone, but we are glad you are with us on the bankless journey. Thanks a lot.