"Being Fat Is A Choice!" Greg Doucette Slams Fitness Influencers, Body Positivity, & Scams

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Graham Stephan?

  Bodybuilding is the worst sport you could possibly do.

• 0:04Graham Stephan?

  What do you think about fat shaming?

• 0:06Speaker 01

  I think fat shaming can absolutely work.

• 0:07Graham Stephan?

  Is it really bad that I don't want to be fat? That I don't want to be unhealthy? So if someone's trying to ascend, give us the first five things they do today.

• 0:17Speaker 01

  Number one is Mr. Mike is delusional. He's convinced himself in order to cope that he's on low doses.

• 0:24Graham Stephan?

  What if Mike Isratel came to and said, look, I don't like it when you make these videos on me?

• 0:27Speaker 01

  Mike Isratel has literally said, you can do anything you want, talk about me whenever you want.

• 0:31Speaker 02

  Just because I'm popular. And if I fall off tomorrow, Greg will never make another video about me again.

• 0:37Graham Stephan?

  What muscles do you think women look for most in men?

• 0:41Speaker 01

  All these guys doing hand workouts to try to impress. I'm like, look, spend less time of that and get a job and have some money. Girls care about your wallet.

• 0:48Jack Selby?

  How does a 16 year old look like this?

• 0:50Speaker 04

  A lot of steroids and a lot of working out.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  Like 16 year olds are doing steroids now and bragging about it. It's at this point, it's insane.

• 0:58Graham Stephan?

  Who is the worst fitness influencer right now?

• 1:05Graham Stephan?

  Greg, thank you so much for coming on the Ice Coffee Hour. So we have a series of fitness claims and then you're going to either agree or disagree. And they're sprinkled throughout the structure of this video. You ready?

• 1:16Speaker 01

  Be sure, let's do it.

• 1:17Graham Stephan?

  In 2026, there is no excuse to be obese.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  Definitely. I've said that a number of times with the GLPs nowadays. You can use them, everyone can use them if you can afford it, that is, and you will absolutely lose weight. So if you can't lose weight and you use a GLP, and by GLPs, I mean Ozempic, Terzipatide, Retitutri, you can and will lose weight. It is literally easy now.

• 1:38Graham Stephan?

  How much of that is personal choice versus genetic?

• 1:41Speaker 01

  It's probably 50% genetic and 50% personal choice because some people are born with more fat cells and more ghrelin, which is a hunger hormone. And so if you're born with more fat cells, more ghrelin, it's way harder to stay skinny. There's always that food noise, but you can choose to eat healthier foods, more fruits and vegetables, leaner, you know, cuts of meat, whatever, to allow yourself to eat less calories and do more exercise. And so you can overcome it. It's just way harder for people with bad genetics. But with the GLPs, literally easy, everyone's in a playing, a level playing field. No excuses now.

• 2:15Graham Stephan?

  So what percentage body fat should every single person watching this be under for male and female?

• 2:21Speaker 01

  There's no number to be under. It's more so to do with your own health and your range. Everyone has a certain range of body fat that's comfortable for them. But in general, a man should be at about 15% body fat for ideal health reasons. A woman around 25%. As you get higher than that, there's going to be more and more negative consequences. But I wouldn't say somebody that's, for example, more obese, let's say you're a guy with 50% body fat. I'm not going to tell him to get down to 15, but maybe for him, 25 is healthy. Somebody else that's at 30, maybe they can only get to 20. But the closer to 15, the better, assuming it doesn't cause any problems.

• 2:55Graham Stephan?

  You recently posted a video just titled Clueless Fat People. What do you think fat people are clueless about?

• 3:02Speaker 01

  How to lose weight and what it takes to get there? Because if they knew, they would literally do it.

• 3:06Graham Stephan?

  Do you think that it's actually a problem of education?

• 3:10Speaker 01

  I think it's half education and just half people not giving it, like just literally, just, I don't care. I'm just not going to think about it. Like people don't think about the things that they're doing. For example, with alcohol, they don't want to think that it's a poison. They don't want to think it's a class one carcinogen by the World Health Organization. So rather than think about it, they just put it off and don't actually do any thought on it whatsoever.

• 3:31Graham Stephan?

  Is it a thought though, or is it more about willpower?

• 3:34Speaker 01

  I think it's a lack of thought. Like when I was drinking, I didn't think, oh, it might give me cancer. I'm just like, it's just drinking, it's fun. Or if somebody's gambling, they're just thinking, oh, it's fun, it's dopamine, it's a good time, I might make some money. They're not thinking, what if I get addicted and lose my house? Same thing with food.

• 3:50Graham Stephan?

  So what changes psychologically in someone's brain if they go from something like 25 or 35% body fat down to 15 to 17% body fat? Because it's hard to get someone to care about something if they don't care. Is this something that they could start to care about? So they don't have to force themselves to care about something if they decrease their body fat?

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Well, they could absolutely start caring about it. And the biggest thing is when people are at whatever they are right now. So let's say there's a viewer at home and they're at 40% right now. They think life isn't bad. I'm sitting here watching Coach Greg, Ice Coffee Hour, this is a good time. I walked to the store, I walk from my car to wherever and I feel good. They don't realize how unshape, how unhealthy they actually are until they actually get in shape. So there was one woman that I was doing that response to where she said, I feel fit. She was 400 pounds. And I'm like, if I felt like you, I would be in the worst state of my life. I would be absolutely hating my life. And if you felt like me, she would think, life is this good? And so until you get to that point, you don't understand what you're missing.

• 4:53Speaker 01

  So the people who are overweight, they think everything is great until they lose the weight. And then they then realize, wow, my former life was terrible.

• 5:03Graham Stephan?

  Is it true that sometimes people who are obese feel the craving of hunger stronger than other people?

• 5:10Speaker 01

  They absolutely do, almost all of them. That's why they're obese. My opinion is that people who are obese, it's mostly like a genetic thing, or at least it's 50% genetics. Now, there's a lot of people who are not obese, who are not obese because they fight through it. They have the willpower or they're doing cardio. Like if I wasn't doing 10 hours on my bike every single week or more and lifting weights and eating healthy, I wouldn't be this lean, I would maybe be at 20%, but I wouldn't be at 40%. And so my genetics don't allow me to get that fat. So I'm lucky, I'm fortunate that way. So I mean, I wish they had the same genetics as me, but a lot of people have great genetics and they still don't care. They eat horribly and they end up overweight.

• 5:46Graham Stephan?

  How real is the ectomorph, endomorph and mesomorph thing? Like, can someone actually distill their physique or like natural body type down to one of those groups?

• 5:56Speaker 01

  It's on a spectrum for all of them. So it's kind of like height. I'm a manlet, I'm five foot six, I'm short. If somebody can say, you're short, am I really short? It's on a spectrum. I'm not three feet tall, I'm not six foot six either. So it's, it's the same like that. If you have an endomorphic body, which means you're going to be really, really fat and you weigh 600 pounds, it's absolutely true. If I tried to be a 400 pound man for a billion dollars to save every soul on this world, I couldn't do it. I could try, I could just, to save every person on this planet, everyone would be cheering for me. I couldn't get to 400 pounds, my body wouldn't allow it. I would eat that much food, I would throw up, I wouldn't stay down. I physically, physically couldn't do it. Those people, some of them, they have to struggle to get under 400 pounds.

• 6:39Graham Stephan?

  When do you think compassion turns into enabling?

• 6:43Speaker 01

  A lot of people online will be nice to people who are overweight. It's okay, don't worry, you're trying, oh, you took 10,000 steps. It's like, you're just giving them a participation trophy. I don't think that that works. And they're, on the other hand, they're going to say, yeah, but you yelling at them and calling them fat isn't going to work either. Well, there's, maybe there's somewhere in the middle that would be the ideal point. But every person that's watching videos, if you're watching me saying you're fat and you need to start exercising, eat healthier. If you don't like that, go onto somebody else's video. Whatever video you're watching, if it's mine and it makes you lose weight, awesome. If it's not, don't watch me, watch somebody else. But as long as it works, that's the bottom line.

• 7:20Graham Stephan?

  Is fat shaming effective?

• 7:22Speaker 01

  I think fat shaming can absolutely work. I think it's a great thing for many people. For some people it's not, but I think without fat shaming and with body positivity, accepting everybody, then we just accept mediocrity. I just think that people will say, oh, you're 300 pounds, oh, it's good, it's okay, we love you no matter what. I'd rather hear them say, do you realize you're taking 20 years off of your life? What is wrong with you? Lose some weight, look how fat you are. You think a girl's going to want to go out with you? Look what happened to you. Stop doing what you're doing. Men treat each other that way. Men will say to a guy friend, hey, you're fat. Women will say to a girl that's 300 pounds, no, you're a 10 queen. But imagine telling that girl, saying you look like her. What are you talking about? So I feel like men treat other men more in a reality and women treat other women more like, oh no, it's okay.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  But behind the scenes, they're all fighting, so.

• 8:09Graham Stephan?

  So then when can fat shaming become cruel?

• 8:11Speaker 01

  I think when the person tells you, look, what you're saying bothers me, I don't want you to do it anymore. And if you continue, that's when you're crossing the line. But without that, then why not keep going? Like if you have to stand up for yourself, you don't like how somebody's treating you, how they're talking to you, how they're teasing you, whatever, what name they're calling you, like if they're saying fatso, say, look, I don't like it when you call me fatso. Can you please stop doing that? It offends me. If somebody said that to me, I'm not going to do it to them anymore. And so without that, where do you stop? I mean, are you not trying to treat other people like you're a dad or an uncle? Trying to stop people?

• 8:41Graham Stephan?

  What if Mike Isratel came to and said, look, I don't like it when you make these videos on me? You have these titles and they put me in a bad light.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Mike Isratel has literally said, you can do anything you want, talk about me whenever you want.

• 8:51Graham Stephan?

  But let's say he calls you and he changes his mind and he says, hey, man, this, this hurts my feelings, what you're saying about me. I'm really self-conscious about my calves. He's self-conscious about his tan?

• 9:02Speaker 01

  If he said, uh, let's see. Mike, Mr. Mike is selfish.

• 9:06Graham Stephan?

  The rules for thee, not for me.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  Mike is selfish about his tan. We've had talks in the past and I eased up on him quite a bit for a long time until the, that, that research thesis paper there came out. So I have stopped in the past on several different people who've wrote me in private. I've taken multiple videos down. It depends. Every situation is different.

• 9:27Graham Stephan?

  What do you think the body positivity movement is getting correct?

• 9:31Speaker 01

  I think that it should be more accepting for people who are, for example, have handicaps or disabilities, or if they're trying and they're making an effort, then you should accept that. But if it's a lack of effort and whatnot, then I don't think this should let them off the hook. I don't really see it as much different than if somebody's an alcoholic or a drug addict or they're abusing steroids and you say, look, you need to stop doing what you're doing. No one would say that that's bad. Like if we see somebody who's literally a drug addict and we say, you need to stop doing the drugs, it's bad, you're going to kill yourself. No one would say that's a bad thing. But if somebody's eating themselves to death and you say you should stop eating themselves to death, then people are okay with it. It's just what's socially acceptable. That's the only difference.

• 10:09Graham Stephan?

  So do you think obesity is going to become a lot less common over the next 10 years?

• 10:13Speaker 01

  It's already becoming less common with the obesity drugs. Absolutely. With the GLPs, way, way less people are going to be obese.

• 10:21Jack Selby?

  What about the risk of taking these drugs? Like expanded over the course of the next 10 years? What do you think is the worst case scenario? And what do you think is the most realistic case scenario?

• 10:29Speaker 01

  I think there's definitely risk to taking the GLPs like Anadonia, like Laffco Feelings. I mean, there's some people taking these GLPs that are not wanting to gambling more. They're not wanting to drink. They don't have as much excitement in life. They don't want to have sex as much. They don't want to gamble as much. And so your drive to be human or to enjoy things is diminished. So that is a bad thing. Now, overall, I think that people who don't need to use GLP shouldn't use them. So if I said, I'm going to use a GLP, you'd be like, well, why would you do that? I'm already lean enough. And so if you're overweight or obese, to me, no problem. But if you're already able to maintain a healthy body fat percentage without it, then you shouldn't use it.

• 11:04Graham Stephan?

  Isn't the lack of drive, though, purely due to consuming less food and having less energy?

• 11:09Speaker 01

  The lack of drive for sex and gambling? I don't think so, but partially, I think that it would be a partial reason for that.

• 11:16Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. Cause if I'm trying to lose a little weight and I'm eating a lot less, I just find myself, I got brain fog, I'm not as motivated versus if I'm just kind of eating whatever, I do feel that like a little more energetic.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  That's a great point. Cause you're right. Like when I would diet for bodybuilding competitions, my desire to have sex would go way down. Although something like smoking cigarettes, I don't think would be the same. I think if people eat less, they probably want to smoke more to reduce their, their drive to eat. But definitely that's, you've got to be on to something there.

• 11:44Graham Stephan?

  So is there something that's harmful about taking these weight loss drugs?

• 11:48Speaker 01

  Definitely. For example, RETA increases your resting heart rate by sometimes five or 10. Or I did a video on a guy, he has 11 beats per minute higher resting heart rate. He was feeling sick, he had nausea. So there's a lot of side effects, but almost all these side effects are people are doing the drugs at too high of doses. And just from my own personal anecdote on friends and people I've coached, I think three quarters of people start with too high of a dose. I think the doctors are prescribing too much and I think it's because pharmaceutical companies want the drug to work the first time and they want people to see and feel that difference immediately, rather than using a really low dose to start and titrate up if and when they need it. The doctors are prescribing really high doses. People are then losing weight really quickly, thinking it works. But I think the lowest dose that makes you happy is what people should be doing.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  So if we use the same drugs, but in lower doses, I think we'll have better effects.

• 12:37Graham Stephan?

  Now, the next quote we have here is that the average guy should stop thinking about getting bigger and start thinking about getting leaner.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, absolutely. The average guy is too big. Like, most people are fat. Most people are overweight at this point. The average person is pathetically like a horrible looking body. The average female, I think, is five foot three, 171.4 pounds, give or take.

• 13:02Graham Stephan?

  171 pounds and five three?

• 13:04Speaker 01

  Exactly. It's horrendous.

• 13:04Graham Stephan?

  Is that really the average?

• 13:06Speaker 01

  I'm almost positive that's the average. The average woman is about five foot three and just over 170 pounds. And so if you look at five, three and 170 pounds, it's not pretty. It's not, it's not an ideal. So when somebody says, hey, like I'll tell people, hey, I, I measure their body fat and it's at 33%. I said, hey, that's, you know, just a cutoff of obese, but you're, you're almost average. It's like, that's not a compliment. Like being average is an insult. And so, yes, lean, way more people would live longer, have a healthier life and look better by being leaner. And the drive to be bigger, even if it's just muscle, most people have enough muscle, to be honest, like most people are not dying because they don't have enough muscle unless they're like really old. But having a lot of muscle, it's honestly overrated. I mean, I was coming from a bodybuilder and powerlifter. I lift weights twice a week now. I still have plenty of muscle.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  Like you don't need as much, but I do a lot of cardio and I think that leaner is going to give you way more benefit in life than having like 20 pounds more muscle than you have right now.

• 13:59Graham Stephan?

  One of the things that I noticed is that it seems like a lot of people are on the GLP ones, like the Ozempics and all that. It seems like a lot of that is looked down upon. Like, ah, you're relying on those. Why? You couldn't just like diet and exercise. Why do you think that is?

• 14:12Jack Selby?

  Now, look, the pressure to look a certain way can take up a lot of your headspace. You can be making real progress while also feeling like you're not doing enough.

• 14:19Graham Stephan?

  And when you're thinking so much about your physical health, it's easy to overlook how you're doing mentally. So if you've thought about therapy, but haven't given it a try, it might be worth another look. We partnered with our sponsor, BetterHelp, and they've just made a huge change. For eligible members, insurance options may now be available with copays as low as $15.

• 14:37Jack Selby?

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• 14:55Graham Stephan?

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• 15:10Jack Selby?

  And if the first therapist is not the right fit, you can switch at any time at no additional cost. And that's because finding someone that you feel really comfortable with opening up to matters.

• 15:19Graham Stephan?

  You don't have to wait until everything feels overwhelming to give your mental health some attention. Taking care of yourself can include having someone help you work through whatever's on your mind.

• 15:27Jack Selby?

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• 15:32Graham Stephan?

  With insurance, many BetterHelp members pay $15 or less, some pay $0. And if you don't have insurance or don't live in the United States, not a problem. You could still get 10% off your first month. All you got to do is click the link in the description or go to betterhelp.com/icedcoffeehour to explore your options. It seems like a lot of that is looked down upon. Like, ah, you're relying on those. Why? You couldn't just like diet and exercise. Why do you think that is?

• 15:56Speaker 01

  Same reason as why people put you down for taking HRT. People are looking for an excuse to put you down because they're not doing something. The people who are putting you down for taking a GLP are not people on GLPs. The people who put you down or myself down for being an HRT are not on HRT themselves. So you're trying to lower other people to bring yourself up. People will cheer for you when they're down, but if you get ahead of them in any way, then it's like, okay, I don't like you now. So as soon as somebody hears that somebody's on a GLP or HRT or a peptide or any of these things, basically they're like, well, that person is now better than me, they're look better than me, they're leaner than me, they're stronger than me. And so I want to insult them. And so you didn't do it natural. And so that's the put down.

• 16:35Jack Selby?

  On the topic of getting lean, what is the best way that you would recommend someone do that? And how do they know their body fat percentage? Cause the actual way of figuring that out is like getting in the water, right? Like the water displacement and stuff. Like that's very complicated and exhaustive. Like not the average person has access to that. Like how can the average person assess their body fat percentage as well as get it to a, a nice level?

• 16:56Speaker 01

  Well, body fat assessment, the problem is most of the things that people have thought were accurate are actually scams. So for example, the in-body scan, it's an in-body scam. It guesses your body fat. Mine was 19 plus percent. And on the DEXA scam, I was eight percent, give or take, and I was 19% on the in-body. So both of those are not really accurate methods. The skin full caliper test, I like it more than that. The hydrostatic weighing test, I like more than the others as well, but that's a lot of work. The skin full caliper test is great if I'm the one doing it, but the problem is it's only as accurate as a person measuring it. So you have to interpret that. Same as an MRI machine, even an MRI machine, which is like the golden standard for everything, you still have to be able to interpret that data. It's like if you're a radiologist and you're examining, you don't know how to do it, you might make a mistake.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  But it doesn't really matter because most people are fat anyway. And so if you can't just ask your friends, am I lean? Like, is this good? Like, or even yourself? That's all you need. You should be able to look in the mirror and decide for yourself, like, am I fat? Now BMI, not really a great method because with more muscle, your BMI is going to be higher. Like my BMI is actually obese, like my BMI is too high. So if you can't look in the mirror and decide if you're fat or not, then that, that's a big problem.

• 18:06Jack Selby?

  And then in order to decrease your body fat percentage, what would you say are the best ways of doing that? Because I see a lot of people saying, oh, I just started walking 15,000 steps per day. I cut these things out of my diet. I started doing this exercise. What do you think is the, is the best way of, of doing that?

• 18:22Speaker 01

  Well, the S tier, god tier is calories in, calories out. So being in a deficit. And whatever makes you do that is S tier. So for me, doing a lot of cardio, I love it. If you hate cardio, I'm not going to tell you, all you have to do is ride 10, 10, 15 hours on a bike a week and you're going to be lean. Yes, they would be, but they might not want to do it. Maybe for that person, a GLP is the way. Maybe for somebody else, it's OMAD or it's intermittent fasting, or it's eating more fruits and vegetables, or it's eating more protein. So whatever works for you, that is the ideal method. So just find out what works. Now, one thing that's not going to work is taking a bunch of steps. There's just been a guy, he posted and it's kind of went viral. He did 10,000 steps. Like how many calories does 10,000 steps burn?

• 19:04Speaker 01

  And it only burns 285 calories and it took him 93 minutes above what you burn off at rest. So he did 10,000 steps, 93 minutes. He's wearing like a mass, it measures your oxygen and carbon dioxide. That's all it is. So about two, and he's 190 pounds, man, he's about my size.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  190 plus calories for an hour of walking. That's like half a cheeseburger.

• 19:25Graham Stephan?

  What about walking on an incline?

• 19:27Speaker 01

  It'll double the calories burning on the flat. Way better. So for me, I would advise everyone, you got to do zone two cardio, at least 150 minutes a week. That's the minimum. That's not to lose weight. That's like the minimum, just for basic health. I would double that. So for me, cardio zone two, over time, get better at it. You can burn more calories.

• 19:45Jack Selby?

  What's the difference between having good? Health and having a good physique.

• 19:48Speaker 01

  A good physique, like I'm, we're here at the Mr. Olympia watching this. They all look like they have great physiques and almost all of them have horrible health. Almost every single one, if I took the blood work of every classic physique, bodybuilder, uh, men's physique, bikini girl, if I took their blood work right now and tested them, they would probably be as fit as somebody who's morbidly obese, almost all of them. So just because you look super fit doesn't make you fit. And so some of the most important things is, is your VO2 max. And how do you improve that by doing cardio? So if somebody isn't doing cardio, I'm going to argue that they're not nearly as fit as they could be.

• 20:21Graham Stephan?

  What do you look for in the blood results like that? Like what's going to show up out of range?

• 20:26Speaker 01

  Well, see, one of the problems with bodybuilding is, is the abuse of steroids. But even if they aren't abusing steroids, your testosterone levels are going to be tanked. If you're using steroids, your cholesterol is going to be horrible. And um, I guess your chances of having a, a heart attack or a stroke, or any kind of cardiovascular event in the future is going to be bad. You could lose your kidneys, your, your liver could be like down, I mean, on the downward path to, to being a problem like.

• 20:51Jack Selby?

  What's your current stack right now?

• 20:53Speaker 01

  Okay, I do a hundred and forty milligrams of HRT a week, eighty milligrams every four days. Um, so that's all I'm doing for like testosterone or steroids or growth hormone or insulin. People oftentimes think I'm doing a bunch of other things. That's it for as far as anabolic, I don't do SARMs, I don't do any things. I'm doing five to 10 milligrams of Cialis a day. Um, that helps me in the gym, it helps me in the bedroom, helps me everywhere in life. Honestly, it makes you look weight, just using Cialis in the gym can give you such a great pump and looks so much better.

• 21:24Graham Stephan?

  Is that healthy?

• 21:25Speaker 01

  Just to like. Cialis at five milligrams a day, I would argue is healthier than not taking it. It increases blood flow to your, all the organs, not just the downstairs, but your muscles as well.

• 21:34Graham Stephan?

  But let's just say you're functioning normally as it is, like you're getting blood flow. Like, do you need to take it?

• 21:40Speaker 01

  Nothing is a need, just like, but you don't need HRT. Technically, I don't need HRT, I could probably go off HRT and in six months to a year, my testosterone levels would go back to normal, but I function great at seven hundred to eight hundred nanograms per deciliter. I'm really happy with that. I'm sure I would survive at five hundred, but I don't want to. So for me, I, I like that. So nothing is really a need.

• 22:01Graham Stephan?

  But it's really just for the pump at the gym or is there like a?

• 22:04Speaker 01

  And in the bedroom, and in the bed.

• 22:06Graham Stephan?

  Is there a health benefit to this?

• 22:08Speaker 01

  I would argue that the bedroom benefit is a good benefit. I'd rather do uh, 10,000 steps in the bedroom than 10,000 steps outside.

• 22:14Jack Selby?

  I'm not, I'm not, I don't mean to look at.

• 22:15Graham Stephan?

  You're just, he's staring at me.

• 22:16Jack Selby?

  I wasn't, I, I'm just listening, that's it, my ear is closer to his mouth.

• 22:20Graham Stephan?

  First of all, he recommended you do Cialis.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  I think you both should be doing Cialis, you gotta try it.

• 22:26Jack Selby?

  Well, one person especially should be doing Cialis. Actually, one thing, um, well, I guess this is not a really great example, but I think it was Dr. K, if you're familiar who that is.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  Special K? I'm familiar with that, no recommend it.

• 22:40Jack Selby?

  He said like, the veins in the back of your hand, if it's vascular suggests. I think it was testosterone or something, it could be completely.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  Definitely not testosterone, but maybe better blood flow or.

• 22:50Jack Selby?

  Completely misquoting him.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  The more body fat you have, the more you're going to cover up the veins. Like you're not going to see any of this, but if you're.

• 22:56Jack Selby?

  But if you take Cialis, then you're going to be able to see just like generally.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  Much more, I mean, there's like Brian Johnson, the man that wants to live forever, not the Liver King that, that's kind of lost his mind. He takes Cialis every day and he's invested in multi millions of dollars to live longer. And there's a correlation between um, how, how much hardness you have during the night and how in longevity. So it increases more blood flow, better blood flow, you live longer. But I mean, who wants to live if you can't get the blood flow in the right spots?

• 23:21Jack Selby?

  So even if I'm very satisfied with my overall body, I should still probably take Cialis.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  I don't think there's a, you should take it, I think that you could take it if you wanted to be more optimal. But if you're already happy with your optimal.

• 23:34Jack Selby?

  To be maximally optimal because I have like now introduced vitamin D3 into my diet.

• 23:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:39Jack Selby?

  Previously, I wouldn't take anything, aside from creatine. But now it's actually easier for me to remember to take my creatine because I would skip, because I've introduced vitamin D3. It's now like the more things that I take, the more easy it is to remember to take them. So I'm at the point now where I'm like, bring it on, like give me everything.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  I find it easier to remember because I opened my little chart of like 15 pills I take every morning with the GO2 max and the Turk builder and all the different things. And it's like, it's just easy, it's every day I take it. If I had to just remember one bottle at a time, I never would do it. I think GO2 max of the pills that I take would be one of the best ones. The studies have shown it's like dramatic improvements in cardiovascular endurance. And they're not even sure of it so much, is it improving your cardio? Or is it making you want to do more cardio, which is improving the cardio? So like which came first, the chicken or the egg? But if whatever pill you can take, that's going to make you do more cardio, it's going to be better for you. Increased dramatically their, their.

• 24:30Jack Selby?

  What if you take it, but you don't do cardio?

• 24:32Speaker 01

  The people that took it in the study, they didn't, they didn't tell them, go do cardio. They didn't say practice, they didn't put them on a diet, they didn't do anything. And they basically put, said, walk a mile and we'll see how long it takes. And then after, they had the placebo group and the group that didn't take it. And the group that took it walked way faster, like dramatically, huge improvements, which was dose dependent, which is even a stronger correlation that it's effective. Cause you take a little bit and you were a bit faster, but you took a lot and you were a lot faster. Very, very good indicator that it works. So I would recommend GO2 max highly.

• 25:04Jack Selby?

  So what else?

• 25:05Speaker 01

  Um, I really believe in the Turk builder max. I think that that's great for improving people's endurance in the gym and strength, drive, determination, wanting to push harder, build more muscle, uh, leaner, drier appearance. Um, also omega three fatty acids, I take that. So just, uh, you know, your basic omega three from Costco for, for example, whatever. I think that's important. Um, the vitamin D like you, like you're doing as well, uh, Cialis.

• 25:32Speaker 05

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• 26:03Speaker 01

  Other than that, I mean, do you need it? Not really, none of these do you absolutely need. But I think if you're looking for optimal performance and having things that actually will move the needle, I think these are effective.

• 26:14Jack Selby?

  So two things, one is what about a daily multivitamin? And then second of all, of these pills that people could be taking, like the vitamin D3, how do you make sure that they're taking the right one? Because I've heard from so many people online saying, oh, take vitamin D3, but only take it if it has this, take magnesium, but only take it if instead it's glycinate, it's threonate, or it's this, or it's that. Like, how do you know what is honest and what is not?

• 26:39Speaker 01

  I think there's information overload and if you start worrying about, okay, it has to be this brand and not that brand. And it has to be this or that, that's too much. What I recommend is you get your blood work done and you get a full panel, you test everything. Because you might not need vitamin D at all, like you need to look in your blood work. I got mine done, I mean, I got it from Algorx, of course, which I own part of the company. But my vitamin D was low and I'm like, well, really? Cause I did not believe in taking a multivitamin because I eat so much food and such a variety of food, fruits, vegetable, like everything. I'm like, there's no way I could possibly need a vitamin. And then here it is that I do. And a lot of people need more iron. So I don't need iron, iron's great, but a lot of people are low, low iron. And then so with the blood work, you can then say, I need this or I don't need this.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  So to just say, yeah, you should take vitamin E or vitamin D or coenzyme Q10 or whatever. It's like, what do you individually need? And so if you said, my sex dive is amazing and I take a pre-pump and I go to the gym and I train great and my veins are popping out. I feel, I, I, Cialis is not needed, but if you're like, I could be harder. Or if your girl says, yeah, you could be harder, you, you want to take it.

• 27:46Graham Stephan?

  So what would you say then is the 80/20 for the average person to do? Where if they just want to get the basics for 80% of the results, they do this?

• 27:54Speaker 01

  I would say the most important supplements to take would be creatine. I think like you said, vitamin D, I think that's a really important one. I think uh, uh, vitamin, uh, omega three fatty acids, I think those are really important. And I would say GO2 max, just because as good as Turk is, it's more for like lifting weights in the gym. And so I'm more a fan of cardio, like I really think cardio trumps weights, trumps muscle anytime. I mean, I've, I've made videos where I'm like, muscles don't matter as much as you think. And they clip me and say, oh, this is stupid. But I'm like, you're, this is coming from a bodybuilder that has retired from bodybuilding and powerlifting and now does cardio. So I think that what makes you do more cardio is more important.

• 28:31Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, what I did since our last podcast, I did a full blood analysis with function health. And it turned out I was deficient in uh, vitamin D was one of them. And there were like a few others, it was like, I think it was zinc and like, there were maybe three or four. But I plugged it into Claude and it said, based on these readings, I'd recommend these just over the counter supplements that I bought.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  I would go with that.

• 28:53Graham Stephan?

  Amazon.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 28:55Graham Stephan?

  And it was just all easy stuff, did not cost that much money. And I started taking him and I think within about three months, I felt probably 10 years younger.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 29:04Graham Stephan?

  In terms of, I'd like, I would wake up, I wasn't like groggy, I felt like more energetic. I'd have just clearer thought, it was incredible, like an actual difference.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  I think one thing that can make a difference that we haven't spoken of is anything that can help you sleep better. I think sleep is one of the most underrated things in this world. And so if there's something that can help you sleep, like you, you mentioned zinc and it's like.

• 29:25Graham Stephan?

  Zinc and magnesium too, yeah.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  Like these things, if it works, I mean, whatever it is that makes you sleep better, I don't care if it's eating before bed that does it even. I don't even care if it's weed, like sometimes I'll, I'll take uh, edibles with uh, THC to help me sleep better. And I've got put down on the internet for saying that. When you stare at the night, like last night I was up for two hours straight and I had to go in and get like two milligrams of Zopacone to get back to sleep. I'm just staring. I couldn't sleep. I'm like, I need to sleep. And so when you don't get a good night's sleep, it ruins the next day. So whatever it is you need to take that helps you sleep is so important. Like if it's melatonin, that is paramount. Better sleep, better cardio, better weights, better feeling, less stress, everything.

• 30:08Graham Stephan?

  What do you think about Rhetatrutide? Now, we've been talking about how much your daily habits affect how you feel and nutrition is one of the first things to slip when life gets busy, especially this time of year because the days are getting shorter, the holidays are coming up, and having a routine you could actually stick to, trust me, makes a huge difference, which brings us to our partner, AG1.

• 30:27Jack Selby?

  AG1 is a daily health drink, one scoop, cold water, shake it up, and you've got vitamins, minerals, pre and probiotics, and superfoods all in one.

• 30:34Graham Stephan?

  Their next-gen formula has over 75 ingredients and is backed by four separate clinical trials. So with consistent use, it's been shown to improve key nutrient levels within three months.

• 30:44Jack Selby?

  And that consistency is the whole point. It's an easy step you can build into your morning to help fill common nutrient gaps. Plus, AG1 Next Gen is formulated to support immune defense, which is especially relevant heading into this time of year. Like, you're already thinking about your schedule, your workouts, everything else you have going on. This just makes getting that daily nutritional support simple. Yeah, honestly, the taste surprised me. It's something that I actually enjoy drinking, so it made it way easier to add it in as like a daily habit. And I'll be the first to admit that my diet is pretty far from perfect, so it's nice to have a way to help fill some of those nutritional gaps.

• 31:14Graham Stephan?

  And for me, it's just easy to stay consistent with. It takes about 30 seconds to mix everything up in the morning, and then I could get on with my day without overthinking it. Go to drinkag1.com/ICH, and for a limited time, you get a free immune support bundle, including a bottle of omega-3 fish oil and a bottle of vitamin D3 K2 with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. Again, that is drinkag1.com/ICH.

• 31:40Jack Selby?

  One more time, that is drinkag1.com/ICH, or you can just click the link down below in the description.

• 31:46Graham Stephan?

  And while we're on the topic of taking care of yourself, it's also really important to think about the people who depend on you. I think a lot about how much goes into building financial security and making sure the people I care about are taken care of is a big part of that.

• 31:57Jack Selby?

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• 32:09Graham Stephan?

  Look, I understand. Life insurance is one of those things that's really easy to keep putting off indefinitely, especially when you're young and healthy, but that's actually when you could lock in the best rates.

• 32:19Jack Selby?

  With Ethos, you can get a quote in seconds, apply in minutes, and even get same-day coverage with no medical exam required. You just answer a few simple health questions.

• 32:27Graham Stephan?

  And you could get up to $3 million in coverage, with some policies starting as low as $30 a month.

• 32:32Jack Selby?

  Plus, even if you have life insurance through your job, that might actually not be enough to cover your whole family. And it almost certainly does not follow you if you leave that job.

• 32:39Graham Stephan?

  So having your own policy means that you're protected no matter what.

• 32:42Jack Selby?

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• 32:48Graham Stephan?

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• 32:55Jack Selby?

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• 33:03Graham Stephan?

  What do you think about Rhetatrutide?

• 33:05Speaker 01

  Rheta, I think that it's not legal yet, and so I don't think people should do it. I don't think it's approved yet. It's a, you're playing Russian roulette with your health. You're basically a guinea pig. Overall, I think it's going to be approved. I think it's going to be effective. But of the three GLPs that are out there, like Ozempic, Terzipatide, Rheta, I think it's the most dangerous one. And it's the one that has the most potential to help you lose weight, but has the most risk. And that's the one that can increase your resting heart rate. So my resting heart rate's 48. I just did a video on a guy, and he was like, resting heart rate in the 40s, intelligent guy, but he started on Rheta, and he did a very low dose. It was only at 0.5 milligrams, and it ruined him. He couldn't eat. He felt sick. His resting heart rate went up 11 beats per minute. I'm like, do

• 33:48Speaker 01

  you really want something that increases your heart rate that much more? Like, it's literally speeding up your metabolism. You're burning off more calories, but at the expense of your heart rate going up? It's like when you're sick and your heart rate's going up. Like, do you really want that? And so why not start with the basics? Ozempic, GLP-1. It's the cheapest, and it reduces the food noise. And if you're less hungry, you're gonna eat less. That's all you need.

• 34:09Graham Stephan?

  Do you think, though, with taking some of those GLPs, that like 20 years from now, there's gonna be some side effects that we're just not aware of today?

• 34:16Speaker 01

  There's already side effects that we're aware of, that people don't talk about, like ischemia of the optic nerve from Ozempic. It's causing some people to go blind. There's lawsuits. They're suing them. I think it's there. I think it's a chance. But I'm not saying people shouldn't take it, because you're probably gonna get type 2 diabetes or something if you're obese, so it's gonna help you. But that does increase the prevalence of this. So it is a concern. It's there. But I don't think we should ignore it. But there are gonna be people that suffer from it. I don't think there's anything that works amazingly well that has no potential chance of some people having problems with it.

• 34:47Graham Stephan?

  What about just telling people not to eat?

• 34:49Speaker 01

  It won't work. We've told people that for years. Put the fork down. I've had so many of this, you know, how do you lose weight? You do some push, push away from the table. 10 sets of that. Put the fork down. That doesn't work. You need, no one has that much willpower.

• 35:03Graham Stephan?

  Couldn't there just be like this gelatinous pudding that you just like drink, and it just makes, it just expands, it makes you full?

• 35:11Speaker 01

  You're literally talking about a GLP, well, not literally. You're kinda talking about a GLP, because it makes you less hungry. It slows gastric emptying. So when you do eat food, it sits there longer and it takes longer to digest.

• 35:20Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, but I'm just talking like a pudding.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  So what you would want is to get my cookbook and get one of my protein ice cream shakes where I put like some of these Guar gums or whatever that thickens it up more, and I put it over the head, and it fills you up. It's like a 300 calorie ice cream, and it fills you up. I did that for 15 years of my life, dieting for bodybuilding competitions, starved out of my mind. I never used a GLP. So I was just so hungry. I learned to do volume eating. I learned what fruit and vegetables had the lowest calories. It filled me up, and that's what allowed me to stay like full and lean.

• 35:51Graham Stephan?

  So what curbs hunger the best?

• 35:53Speaker 01

  What curbs hunger the best? Anything that fills your stomach up.

• 35:56Jack Selby?

  Like, what would an example be?

• 35:58Speaker 01

  The protein ice cream is probably the thing that cured my stomach the best in all my years of doing anything. That combined with massive jumbo salads with like spinach or lettuce, like I'm talking about massive bowls. Those two pair together in the evenings. Like, the evenings are when everyone cheats in their diet. No one's cheating in their diet for breakfast and lunch. I did good all day, and then the evening came, so I started snacking. That was my problem. It was everyone's problem. Not everyone. I'd say 95% of people I coach, it's the nighttime. There's a few that was like, not then. Most people, it's evening. And for me, my evening involved getting home from the gym, having a protein ice cream, like I'm talking one of these massive, like two-liter ones. I'm getting half-full, then I'm eating a massive bowl of salad with chicken or egg whites or whatever, and I'm so full, I can't eat anything else. That's it. I'm full. Now I can't. Even if

• 36:39Speaker 01

  there was a pizza in front of me, and I wanna eat it, I can't. I'm full. That's what allowed me to stay lean for 20 years.

• 36:45Jack Selby?

  So what foods should people 100% avoid?

• 36:49Speaker 01

  There's nothing that you should avoid, because if you're craving something, you should allow it. But I would say more so, what foods should people eat? You should be eating the salads or the protein ice creams, fruits and vegetables. Eat that first, and then eat whatever the food that you're trying to avoid is. Let's say it's pizza. Let's say it's a chocolate bar. Eat those things first.

• 37:06Jack Selby?

  Is there anything specifically that's, like, I know that Santa Cruz Medicinals hates the crumble cookie. Like, what are, you know, foods in general that you think are just like, jaw hard mine?

• 37:15Speaker 01

  Crumble cookies don't even taste good. I've done videos on that. It's like, awful.

• 37:18Jack Selby?

  I actually, I think they're pretty good.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  I give it like a 3 out of 10 to an 8 out of 10 to foods in that list. It's not that good. There's so many foods that you should avoid, or, so this is what it is. Avoid trigger foods for you. It's gonna be different for you than me. Me, it's like cereal and ice cream. Like, I just don't wanna stop eating those. For somebody else, it might be like crackers or pretzels or chips. I don't need that. Pretzels, no. Like, cookies? I can, I cannot eat a cookie. But like cereal? Oh my god, like, the box is gone. It doesn't, it's not, it's not something to have in the house. So you keep trigger foods out of the house. Doesn't mean you can ever eat them. If I go visit you for a party, and you have cereal, I'll eat at your house. But it's not in mine, because then it's a constant temptation that I have to avoid. If I go to your house once a week, hey, I can eat pretzels, chips once a week. No problem.

• 38:03Jack Selby?

  What are your temptations, Graham?

• 38:09Jack Selby?

  I think I could answer this for you.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  I don't really have. No trigger foods. Well, that's probably why you're so lean right now. There's nothing that's, that's really struggling.

• 38:16Graham Stephan?

  Okay, so, so my trigger foods, in all seriousness, is when someone... Uh, brings me food and it's in front of me and it's free or going out to a restaurant.

• 38:27Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 38:27Graham Stephan?

  And they say, hey, listen, we brought out some free.

• 38:30Jack Selby?

  Bread. It's like, it's like buttery bread.

• 38:32Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. I can't say no to it because then I feel like I'm being rude and I, I eat it.

• 38:37Jack Selby?

  Well, it's because it's free and I'll have to like actively, cause not because I want to do this, but because I know Graham would be happy. I'll just be like, don't eat that, Graham. Like I'll literally.

• 38:46Graham Stephan?

  Jack's great about that.

• 38:46Jack Selby?

  Like, I'll just be like, Graham will be like, do you think I should eat this? And I'll be like, nah. And like 10% of the time I'll say, yeah, it's fine. But most of the time I'm just like, stop eating this.

• 38:54Speaker 01

  It's funny because we, me and Marie just had this conversation like two hours ago. We're at a buffet. It's like almost $50 per meal. I'm like, just pretend it's free, but you don't need to eat it all. Cause before in the past, once I paid the money for the buffet, it's like, okay, I'm going to beat the buffet. And I would leave holding up my stomach because I'm like, no, there's room for one more plate. Now I'm like, nah, whatever. If I want to eat a buffet later, I'll just go again. So having a mindset of there's always going to be food, like just because it's there in front of you and it's free, it doesn't make a difference. You can get it later. Like never think that, that you have to eat it now or else.

• 39:28Graham Stephan?

  That was hard for me with all you could eat sushi because that is my one splurge in Vegas. And for a while I took that as a challenge to try to like triple the amount that I paid and I'd add up like each piece of nigiri and be like, all right, I got 60 bucks for like 25. I feel like a winner, but I would feel awful the rest of the night.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Winning is not eating till you're full.

• 39:47Graham Stephan?

  Correct.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  That's the, that's the change in mindset.

• 39:50Graham Stephan?

  I stopped eating at a certain point and now I feel better by doing that, but that was tough for me to be able to cut that off.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  Like it feels so good to be here, having gone to an all you can eat buffet and just be chilling and not be like. I did a show once, like a bodybuilding show and I had all you can eat buffet and I interviewed for T S N S's TV show. And I sat there like this and I was like half asleep eating because I'd eaten myself into a food coma. I had no control over buffets. The, the saying was no buffet is safe. I would eat, I would eat, I would eat anyone. And so I had to stop. And so now I can go to a buffet and eat a normal amount and leave. And I couldn't do that until probably the last 15 years and I'm 51. So it was a lot of years of me suffering with like, I'm going to binge. I can't stop. There's no control. You gotta imagine I'm dieting for three or four months for a bodybuilding show. I'm getting down to five, six, seven percent body fat.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Suffering every night, starved out of my mind, doing two hours cardio day to try to not eat. And then suddenly the show's over. Now I get to eat whatever I want. And then you go to a buffet. It's like, there, there's no stopping. Something takes control of your body. So I know what it feels like to be fat. I know what it feels like to be morbid obese. Cause I dieted myself sick, trying to stay lean for so long. And following those shows, I just wanted to eat, which is why I developed all these like recipes in my cookbook, because I knew what it was like to be obese without having been obese. I just imagine any person that's overweight, like 400 pounds, they even diet to 300, they feel exactly like me at five, six, seven percent body fat. And that control, that hunger, it's, it's not pleasant. So I don't want anyone to diet themselves down to like single digit body fat. It's not worth it.

• 41:20Speaker 01

  But can you do a little bit better? Like, can you get halfway to your goal, somewhere where it's manageable? And if you need to take a GLP to do that and you're overweight, by all means.

• 41:28Graham Stephan?

  So what's a food that people think is healthy, but is really not healthy?

• 41:32Speaker 01

  It depends, but I would say peanut butter is one of the most common. Some people even think Nutella is healthy, but peanut butter, no, like not at all healthy.

• 41:40Jack Selby?

  Could peanut butter be a fine part of a diet though?

• 41:44Speaker 01

  If you're a cardiovascular king, like if you're me, if you are an Ironman triathlete. But every single bodybuilder that eats a tablespoon of peanut butter on their diet prep, I'm like, your coach is just giving you the old cookie cutter program. Peanut butter is not it. If you're going to eat peanut butter, eat the nuts before you take it to peanut butter. Cause when you eat peanuts, peanuts, like hard peanuts, a lot of those calories aren't even digested. It comes in, it comes out half undigested. So about 30% of calories you get from a peanut, you're not even eating. So.

• 42:15Jack Selby?

  So one thing that I'll do is I get optimum nutrition protein powder and I'll get two scoops of that. And I think it's like 120 calories for 24 grams of protein or something like that.

• 42:27Speaker 01

  Sounds about right.

• 42:28Jack Selby?

  Two scoops of that. And then I'll do like maybe one tablespoon or a tablespoon and a half of peanut butter.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Why?

• 42:35Jack Selby?

  I don't know. Cause it makes it taste good and already the, the protein and calorie ratio is pretty good.

• 42:40Speaker 01

  So why not put in PB2 or put another scoop of the peanut butter?

• 42:45Jack Selby?

  What is PB2?

• 42:46Speaker 01

  Oh, PB2 is like, uh, is that a brand name? What's a brand name? Powdered peanut butter.

• 42:51Jack Selby?

  Oh yeah. I suppose I could do that.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  Like there's all those kinds of, more of those. Well, what they do is they take the peanut butter and they take all the fat out and they add more protein. So you're going to eat even more protein and less calories.

• 42:59Jack Selby?

  Yeah, I could do that.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  That would be way better. There's like some of my recipes literally were that, like a powdered peanut butter, powdered protein powder with PB2.

• 43:07Jack Selby?

  When is the last time that you ate peanut butter?

• 43:09Speaker 01

  We had, we had peanut butter about a week ago. Like you have to understand, I'm burning off 18 or 1900 calories on a bike ride. And I'm like, I need calories. So like, I'm literally eating ice cream cake at my house now. Like I used to have, like I have a cookbook on how to lose weight and now I, I can barely eat from my own book because the cardio that I'm doing burns so many calories. I'm trying not to lose weight.

• 43:30Graham Stephan?

  Do less cardio at that point?

• 43:32Speaker 01

  I'm trying to win bike races. I'm a, I'm like, as much as I was a bodybuilder at one point or a powerlifter, I'm a cyclist that works out now. So I even have an HDLT bike racing team. We race every week. We're on the clubs. We have the super advanced guys that want to go to world championships and we have like lower level tiers for like, you know, beginners and stuff. It's my new passion. That's what I love to do. So yeah, I'm not going to stop doing cardio. It's what I, this is my most fun thing I do in a day.

• 43:58Graham Stephan?

  So what about flipping it around for the people who want to put on muscle and put on some weight? What do you recommend?

• 44:04Speaker 01

  Eat peanut butter. Yes. A lot more peanut butter. Only do zone cardio, zone two cardio. Don't do a lot of HIIT cardio. It's going to make it too hard to recover from. And I'll obviously focus more on the gym than doing cardio. Just get in your minimum 150. I think Sam Sulek does it really well. Cause he's trying to jack, jack himself up. He's quite lean. He also promotes cardio is a great channel, great advice for people. And he's a lean guy and he's slowly putting on muscle. The old Sam, I didn't like that version where it was like, eat this many calories and bulk up too much. He does everything right. So I would say go follow Sam if you want to bulk up.

• 44:35Jack Selby?

  What do you think about the bulk and cut? Or do you think that someone should just get lean and then just grow themselves from being lean?

• 44:42Speaker 01

  Balking and cutting is only good for people who are bodybuilders who get too lean in the first place. So Sam Sulek's a perfect example. Myself, when I was a bodybuilder, you shouldn't maintain four or 5% body fat year round. That doesn't make sense. So after a show, you need to bulk up. But for somebody who doesn't compete, always keep a roughly the same body fat level within something like three or 4% points of what's best for you. And stay there all the time. Like I've been 8% to 9% body fat for the last six years straight. That's main gaining, maintaining your body fat at a certain range, training hard and just hoping to put on muscle.

• 45:16Jack Selby?

  So you would advise for me that I should.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  Main gain for sure. You should not bulk at all.

• 45:22Jack Selby?

  That's exactly what I was thinking. So I was thinking.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  You were correct.

• 45:25Jack Selby?

  I was thinking the exact same thing, but then my friends are telling me that like.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  Don't listen to friends unless your friends are me.

• 45:29Jack Selby?

  Kevin, stop telling me what to do with my physique.

• 45:32Graham Stephan?

  Kevin's trying to sabotage you.

• 45:34Jack Selby?

  Well, Kevin is like naturally the most ectomorph person ever.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  Is he like a lean guy with a full six pack, like under 10%?

• 45:41Jack Selby?

  Super lean.

• 45:42Speaker 01

  Do you know who Tristan Lee is?

• 45:43Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  So Tristan Lee is a guy that can bulk. He's always single digit body fat. He's been as low as like three point something percent. I measured this guy, um, the calipers, the leanest guy I've ever measured in my life, leaner than pro bodybuilders. And he's like, yeah, I just, I'm like, why, why don't you compete? I wouldn't want to have to diet. I'm like, you've done the diet. You're the thing. Like you're there. Just step on stage. But he didn't want to diet anymore, but he was so lean.

• 46:07Jack Selby?

  Why doesn't Tristan Lee compete?

• 46:09Speaker 01

  I think that probably in his head, he, he would have so much pressure to try to win or, or to look good. And maybe he wouldn't be able to handle the pressure of like, let's say he gets third or fourth or fifth, or doesn't do good. Being as famous as he is from such an early age. And, and everyone's saying you're the leanest person that's been around. I think that would be a lot of pressure to actually compete. I think it would be tough on the, on, on the mind.

• 46:31Graham Stephan?

  So in terms of bulking, I feel like I'm in the same predicament as Jack. So.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  You shouldn't bulk either. You look great right now. This is maintain this.

• 46:39Graham Stephan?

  So here's the problem is that I feel like I'm not eating enough to be able to put on more muscle.

• 46:44Speaker 01

  You're definitely eating enough to put on more muscle. So.

• 46:46Graham Stephan?

  How do you, how do you know that?

• 46:48Speaker 01

  Okay. After 20% body fat, it's going to actually be harder to put on more muscle. Like your hormones are going to get worse. So if you get fatter and fatter and fatter, it doesn't make it easier to gain more muscle. You just have been tricked into thinking that it's muscle that you put on. So if you put on 20 pounds, you go on a bulk and you're like, let's eat 3,000 calories a day. You, you now put on 20 pounds. You're now going to be in a more difficult place trying to gain weight. Just like, how did it work out for Mr. Mike?

• 47:12Graham Stephan?

  But I should be in a little surplus though, right? Like something or no?

• 47:16Speaker 01

  No. Even, okay. To put on muscle, a pound, you need about 2,700 calories. And so if you divide that out, it's like, I forget, was it 140 calories a day to put on one pound of muscle a month or something like that, which is a tremendous amount. You can barely even calculate that. I think it's 30 calories per day needed to put on four pounds of muscle per year of, of like a surplus. Okay. No one can track 30 calories of a surplus. Plus your, your neat, like your non-exercise activity thermogenesis is going to vary. Like maybe I burned 30 extra calories just fidgeting during this, this, uh, interview. It's, it's too hard to track. So there's no point in that. So there's no point in tracking calories to that extent. I even tell people, I don't even think you should track calories. You should track your weight.

• 48:01Speaker 01

  You take your weight five to seven days a week. We do this with Marie as well. You, you circle the middle number and that's your weight for the week. Rather than a lot of people do the once a week weighing, it's ridiculous because it could be on a heavy day or a light day.

• 48:13Graham Stephan?

  Sure.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  Every week you track the median number and if it's going up slowly, then you're doing it right. If it's going down slowly and you're trying to cut, then you're doing that right. That's all it takes.

• 48:23Graham Stephan?

  What if I'm in a calorie deficit slightly, but I'm lifting really heavy?

• 48:27Speaker 01

  You'll still put on muscle. That's the beauty. If you're at a healthy body fat percentage, which for men is about 15%. Tristan Lee is too lean. If he's in the deficit, he's probably not going to be able to put muscle because he's that lean. But if you're at a healthy weight for yourself, like 15% for most people, if you're in a deficit for a week, a month, you're still going to put on muscle. Because the extra, like to build muscle, you need energy and that energy can come start from the body fat on your body.

• 48:51Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  No problem. You don't need calories.

• 48:52Graham Stephan?

  My problem is that I always just get fat right here on my belly. That is it. And so this doesn't go away unless I get like 10% body fat.

• 49:01Speaker 01

  You need to get on the turk.

• 49:01Graham Stephan?

  What? Just to lift heavier and build more muscle?

• 49:03Speaker 01

  You need to get on the turk and you will then lift heavier. You will go into gym, train harder. You will progressive overload, which is the driver of muscle growth and that, that's how it works. You don't need to eat more food. If you put on five pounds of muscle and stayed the exact same weight, you would just be a little bit leaner. Your body fat percentage probably down by like 3%. You'd still be healthy and that's all you need to do.

• 49:23Jack Selby?

  I will say the times that I have hit the gym with you, like I said, you're much more consistent, but I see you kind of like, ah, ah.

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• 49:59Jack Selby?

  And then that's it. But like when I go to the gym, I go less and maybe I'll go like three times a week, but I'm like, oh, oh. And then like, you know, I'll like fight for the last one.

• 50:07Graham Stephan?

  You're doing those noises, Jack.

• 50:09Jack Selby?

  And I'll go like all the way up and they'll do like a couple of half reps just to like squeeze out a few extra.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  So the thing with muscle is we all have a certain genetic potential to put on a lot of size. And once you put on more muscle than your genetic kind of limit, it's then so hard to get better. If you had never lifted before and you look like this, in a year from now, you'd be like, holy, can't believe how much muscle I put on. But if you're consistently training, hard to make much difference. Eighty percent of muscle growth is going to occur from just training your whole body twice a week in two days. So I lift weights twice a week. That's it. I have a lot of muscle. If I wanted to put on more muscle, I would have to probably train three times as much. It would be so hard to put a little bit of muscle on.

• 50:43Jack Selby?

  So you think the optimal amount of time to hit the gym is twice a week?

• 50:46Speaker 01

  Twice a week, each muscle group, that would be optimal. Some could argue that maybe three times a week would be optimal, but then I think you'd have to do a lot less each day. But for example, you training, let's say you went six days a week and you had a three-day split versus my full body. And I just do it twice a week, I'm going to get eighty percent of the results that you're going to get with only two days of training versus six.

• 51:07Jack Selby?

  So walk me through a twice-a-week workout.

• 51:09Speaker 01

  So you do your whole body each day about twice a week, so every three or four days, depending on if, I go by soreness. If I'm not feeling sore on the third day, sure. If I am, wait till the fourth day. So what you do is you're just doing one exercise per muscle group and that's all you need to do. So maybe two, three sets per muscle. So what I do to keep the most amount of time efficiency, because it's a whole body, it's a lot of working out. I go from one exercise to another. So it's basically circuit training. So I'll, I'll start with lats. I'll just do pull downs all the time. So do a set of that, then I go and do a chest press. And then I go back and do lats and I go back and forth. So while my back is resting, I'm doing chest. And then while my chest is resting, I'm doing back.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  And I only need to do two, three hard sets of that, then I move on to the next one. So for example, my chest is done. Okay, I'm going to do shoulders now. Two, three hard sets of that. Now it's done, that's done. Let's do the triceps.

• 52:01Jack Selby?

  When you do shoulders, what are you doing?

• 52:03Speaker 01

  Usually I'll go and do for example, calves between, I'll do shoulder press. And it's all machine, so I don't have to worry about like loading up a bar and taking a lot of time.

• 52:11Jack Selby?

  Right. But there's, there's a couple of things that I'm curious about. One is like the overall cardio requirements of being able to go from workout to workout. Because sometimes a lot of.

• 52:19Speaker 01

  I still rest, I would say a full minute between sets, especially when it's like a harder set. Like my first set is like a warm-up set. I don't rest. I just like, whatever. It's like, I use maybe two-thirds of what I can lift for my main set. And so it's easy. I'll do like 12 reps and I just walk over and do 12 reps. I come back and I put the peg down. Then I'm like, okay, this time I'm really going to push. And I start resting a little bit longer, but it's only about a minute. I would say a full body workout for me, an hour and 15 minutes. It would be 90 minutes would be like, okay, I'm lazy today. I'm resting a bit longer. And you're going to get eighty percent of the, of the results. So for most people, and when I program people, when they first hire me, I'm like, what are your goals? And for most people, their goals are they want to look leaner. And I'm like, okay, we need to focus more on cardio and less on weights,

• 53:04Speaker 01

  because you're going to get eighty percent of the results by training your full body twice a week. Most people are like, I just want to lift weights, six times. I'm like, yeah, but you're wanting to lose weight. Like, how are you going to do that? You're only going to burn like 200 calories.

• 53:13Graham Stephan?

  I heard that lifting weights though is a great way to lose the weight.

• 53:17Speaker 01

  It's another myth. It's not a great way. It's a way, but it doesn't burn enough calories.

• 53:21Jack Selby?

  I heard that lean muscle mass burns calories faster than fat does.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  Fat, like if you have 10 pounds of fat on you, it'll burn two calories per pound and muscle's about eight. So it's maybe four times as metabolically active, the muscle tissue. But what really burns calories is using that muscle. So when I do zone cardio, zone two, I burn 900 calories in an hour. So you can imagine, I'm just, zone two, are you familiar with zone two? It's like talking easy. It's not really a stress. I could do it for like three hours straight, no problem. So I'm burning 900 calories per hour, sitting there. And I'm not even the fastest one on my bike team. There's guys that can do like 1200. So imagine you're burning 1,000 calories per hour. Person B is lifting weights. They're burning about 200 calories per hour. So in one hour, the person that does cardio is burning five times more calories than that muscle man.

• 54:09Speaker 01

  So we got guys on our bike team that might weigh 130, 140 pounds, burning triple the calories of the 200-pound bodybuilder on steroids.

• 54:17Graham Stephan?

  But is the one lifting the weights keeping and retaining more muscle because they're training the muscle?

• 54:23Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely. If you lift weights versus you're just doing cardio, the person that lifts weights is going to have way more muscle. But we, we are, we talked about this earlier, maybe 30 minutes ago. And we talked about what should people be going for, trying to get bigger or trying to improve their cardio or get leaner? The leaner is much better. And when people underestimate what cardio can do, like when I'm on a bicycle, I'm literally lifting weights the entire time. Like Marie will attest to this. She's riding a bike. She doesn't really train her upper body. But when you're on a bike and you're standing up, you're going like this the entire time. So it's a full body workout. Anytime there's a hill, you're literally doing like a set. It's like a workout. And so your muscles are being used in a very good way consistently for a full hour. You're burning so many more calories. Then your body gets used to that. It adapts.

• 55:06Speaker 01

  And the next time you do that cardio, you're a little bit faster and the next time a little bit faster. So maybe the day one, you're out of shape, you're fat, you burnt 300 calories an hour. A year later, you're definitely burning 600. You're doubling it easily in a year. You're not going to double the amount of calories you're burning in the gym by like just lifting hard. I could tell, you, you give me the strongest bodybuilder in the world. I don't care who that is. He's not going to burn more calories than I am in zone two on a bike.

• 55:31Jack Selby?

  The thing that complicates things for me is feeling like I need to hit every small muscle group. Like I know people are now saying, oh, you need to hit your neck. Like that's something that people are saying.

• 55:40Graham Stephan?

  What?

• 55:41Jack Selby?

  You need to do like forearm workouts specifically. You need to go on that one machine that like, like you hunch over and it has the thing behind and you like.

• 55:49Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, the back. I like that back machine though.

• 55:51Jack Selby?

  Well, yeah, you can like it because it's not that hard. But then you have the abductors and the adductors. And it's like, well, how many things do I need to hit? Because if I did a full body workout, I don't know how much I'm hitting my hip adductors.

• 56:01Speaker 01

  The best way to answer this is to pick muscles that are being worked out, like a variety of muscles in one exercise. So for example, if you're doing a squat, you're training hamstrings, you're training your quads, you're training your glutes, all in one exercise. Versus if you're doing an isolation, one-arm curl, like everything I do, it's two arms at the same time. So when I do lat pull downs, my arms and my back are working. And when I do chest press, my chest and my triceps are working. If you're doing a, a bend over row or a chest-supported row, biceps and back. So by the time I get to biceps, you only need like two sets. By the time you get to triceps, I only need two sets at most. So work on like compound movements that work out the majority of the body and then only do those little things after.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  But like in general, if you're, see, if you're doing what I'm saying, you're going to be bike riding, you're going to be doing cardio. So do you really need to do a lot of legs? Like if you're, if you're training for bike racing, like some of the things I do is I sprint on a bike for a minute or 30 seconds. It's like, it's just as hard as doing a squat. I'll argue harder. Like 30 seconds all out on a bike, trying to do 1,000 watts for say 30 seconds. It's just as hard as doing 10 reps on a squat. So you're doing your weightlifting workout with your legs on the bike. So I hardly even train my legs. I do a little bit of adductors and abductors, some calves. I don't train quads or hamstrings at all. I gave it up.

• 57:18Jack Selby?

  What muscles do people not really need to work out?

• 57:20Speaker 01

  The average person not need to work out? I mean, you need to work out whatever you want to look your best in. If it's just for your health, the only muscle you need to really work out is your heart. Everything else is just bonus or icing on the cake. Like I would argue, the heart is more important than every single muscle combined. So think you have your heart and your body. If you work out your heart, everything else is going to be worked with that as well. Like if you're walking up an incline or something, your, your legs are getting stronger.

• 57:45Jack Selby?

  Right. But people's neck, like should you be working out your neck?

• 57:48Speaker 01

  If you want to look more aesthetic to get a girlfriend, a thicker neck is going to increase your desirability.

• 57:53Graham Stephan?

  You might need that, Jack.

• 57:55Speaker 01

  So being a bit thicker here, yes, will help you attract a girl.

• 57:59Graham Stephan?

  How do you work out your neck?

• 58:01Speaker 01

  Well, when I was 10 years old, we had like Ben Weider's whatever exercise program. This is from a chart from like the 1960s. We literally, we just put our hands on our head and do this. Put our hands behind our back and do that. I remember we had to have a, like a shirt and you hold it around, hold it and we're just doing these exercises.

• 58:18Graham Stephan?

  That would work? You can push? You actually see it? You actually build muscle doing that?

• 58:22Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. You could easily, I, I think you'd increase your strength by 50% by just using your hands. Like just do this, push and do 10 sets of that. You can train your neck absolutely. It's hard, way harder than you think. I remember doing these things when I was 10. I'm like, I don't want to do this, dad. Do the exercise. The program says to do it. We just did the exercises. Man, I got strong some quick.

• 58:42Graham Stephan?

  You were 10 years old doing this?

• 58:43Speaker 01

  10 years old is when I started lifting, seriously.

• 58:46Graham Stephan?

  Is that even healthy for a 10-year-old to start lifting weights?

• 58:48Speaker 01

  Absolutely, especially if you like it. I mean, I fell in love with lifting weights with my twin brother and my dad in my basement at 10 years of age. It was such a good time. I was with my friends and you know, you're playing freeze tag stuff. And it'd be like, it's seven o'clock, he's trying to lift weights. Yeah, run in the house. Guys, you gotta go home. Couldn't wait to lift weights. It was the best. It's such great memories of lifting weights when I was 10. Like even now, 41 years later, yeah, like absolutely great memories.

• 59:14Jack Selby?

  What's a workout you see people doing that's completely pointless?

• 59:17Speaker 01

  None. There is no pointless. Like some people are going to joke around CrossFit and High Rocks. I think they're all great exercise, great sport. Yoga, Pilates, all great.

• 59:26Graham Stephan?

  What about the grip strength one?

• 59:27Speaker 01

  If you want to have a strong grip, like you're Magnus, like I met Magnus last month. He actually broke his thumb in an event. Oh my God. But this guy's got millions of followers. The strongest grip in the world, this guy's got one of the strongest, he has like records for his weight. He's a mountain climber. He can climb a mountain with one arm. It's insane. So if that's important, do it.

• 59:45Jack Selby?

  What about these?

• 59:46Speaker 01

  Front, like I don't do that exercise because I'm such a strongly developed anterior delt, like from doing so many bench presses, like being a record holder. I did this so much, I didn't need to do this. But if you have weakness in these muscles, then why not? But for most people, the rear delts are, are underpowered or underdeveloped. Most people do a lot of pushes and they don't do a lot of like this, like to develop the rear delt. And so the posture, like you say, you're in the computer and yeah, all the time. You've got to open up and get the shoulders back. So I think that that exercise is, is overrated, but for some people, it's beneficial. It all depends on the person's body.

• 1:00:22Jack Selby?

  But generally speaking, what does the average person not need to worry about? Like what sort of workout?

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Abs. Because if your abs, you can train your abs every single day. And if you don't have a low enough body fat level, you're not going to see it. And if you lift weights, you're lifting your abs. Like all you have to do is like pull your abs or have an injury and you'll find it real quick. You can't do a tricep press down. You can't do almost anything if your abs are sore or if you have an injury. So abs are going to be worked regardless on everything else. So I, I don't train my abs ever. Not needed.

• 1:00:53Graham Stephan?

  What are your thoughts on taking peptides?

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  I think peptides for many people are great, so long as you're an adult, if you're not a kid. GLPs are peptides. So I mean, I'm for it. I think that peptides can be great. I think they can be abused. I think that young people shouldn't use them. But overall, with the right advice from the right person and assuming you're getting it from a compounding pharmacy prescribed by a doctor, absolutely.

• 1:01:17Jack Selby?

  So I tore my hamstring on April 1st of this year and I'm still going to physical therapy. Well, I just recently started going to physical therapy for it like two weeks ago because it just hadn't gotten better because I would continually like re-tear it when I would play pickleball or go play in my indoor recreational soccer league. And so I started going to PT, but I'm thinking about taking BPC 157 because I've heard a lot of really good things online about how it heals injuries very quickly. What are your thoughts on BPC 157?

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  I've used BPC 157 and TB 500 to heal injuries. I believe that it can work. I don't think it works for everyone. I think it can work. Some people are going to say, oh, maybe it's not going to. It's risky. It's clearly risky to have an injury that keeps getting re-injured. So I would say it's worth the effort, worth the try. I would do it.

• 1:02:02Jack Selby?

  What's the risk?

• 1:02:03Speaker 01

  The risk of using it? I don't know. I haven't seen anybody have like a death from it or anything. But it's a research chemical. It's a research peptide. It's not been proven to be safe beyond any reasonable doubt. So there's potentially something out there. I wouldn't know what possibly could happen.

• 1:02:21Jack Selby?

  What about more chronic pain? Because I told my dad, I think he should look into BPC 157 because he's like a 64 year old guy, but he goes and plays pickleball and his feet are all sore the next day and he can get injured here and there. And I said, Hey, I think you should look into these like healing compounds. Do you think it makes more sense for people that could have more chronic things as well or not really?

• 1:02:38Speaker 01

  Definitely. I believe in BPC 157 despite the fact that it's like, it's not really FDA approved in some countries. You can't sell it. It's kind of on the fence. It's not really natty. Like if you use it, you're, it's banned by WADA, World Anti-Doping Agency. So if you're in the Olympics and drug tested and all this stuff, you gotta be careful. But hey, if I'm injured, I'm using it.

• 1:02:58Jack Selby?

  And what about stem cells? We were speaking with-

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  I did the stem cells.

• 1:03:01Jack Selby?

  Ronnie Coleman and he actually went down to Mexico.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  Went to Mexico.

• 1:03:05Jack Selby?

  To do stem cells. When did you use stem cells and what did you see?

• 1:03:08Graham Stephan?

  By the way, there's a lot to keep track of in this conversation. We're talking different treatments, claims, studies, and making sense of all that information is one of the ways we've been using our partner, Claude.

• 1:03:17Jack Selby?

  Even preparing for this episode, researching topics and saving the Ice Coffee Hour real time and money with our systems and processes, Claude has been incredibly useful.

• 1:03:25Graham Stephan?

  Claude is the AI for problem solvers. It's the collaborator that understands your entire workflow and thinks with you, not for you.

• 1:03:32Jack Selby?

  Whether you're debugging code at midnight, building a financial model or strategizing your next business move, Claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter.

• 1:03:39Graham Stephan?

  No joke, we use this all the time for video titles, drafting emails and analyzing channel data to spot patterns and then figure out how we can improve.

• 1:03:48Jack Selby?

  We've also been using Claude to actually edit our YouTube videos and this has been a ridiculous unlock. This episode legitimately took a third of the amount of time it used to take to edit, all because of Claude. If you are not using Claude, you are seriously, seriously missing out.

• 1:04:01Graham Stephan?

  Plus it connects with Google Drive, Gmail and Slack, so it could work with the context you already have.

• 1:04:06Jack Selby?

  And you keep the final say. You review the work and approve anything that ever gets sent or posted.

• 1:04:11Graham Stephan?

  For problems worth solving, get started with Claude at claude.ai/icedcoffee.

• 1:04:17Jack Selby?

  That is claude.ai/icedcoffee and check out Claude Pro, which includes access to all of the features mentioned in today's episode. That is claude.ai/icedcoffee. When did you use stem cells and what did you see?

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  It was less than a year ago. In like three of my really, really close friends, we all went, I had injections in my shoulder and my hip because I had a hip surgery many years ago. And we also did it for the hair. Like I've had two hair transplants, trying to look younger than last time. I believe that it works. This is from, in Mexico, it was from a placenta, I believe. Does that sound or an embryo? Or no? The umbilical cord.

• 1:04:53Speaker 07

  Oh, I'm glad you knew that.

• 1:04:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, umbilical cord. So there's different laws in different countries. I'm like, look, I'm gonna use whatever can possibly work. To me, it's like BPC 157. Do we know it's working? Maybe. To me, it was like a 50/50. So-

• 1:05:06Jack Selby?

  Did it work?

• 1:05:07Speaker 01

  I would say I feel better, but I'm not certain. So we could say is it like, I would say excessively expensive. Like I think my friends got it for like half price, maybe like 15,000 or something. So it's not cheap, but it's something for like, I would say for people that are more well off. And but if you're in the NFL or something and you can get away with it, I mean, yeah.

• 1:05:27Graham Stephan?

  And where do they get it exactly? Like, did you ask any questions of like, how did you get this?

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  Remember they brought it out and it was in this sealed box in the sea and he's like, show, see, this is approval. We have to open it in front of you.

• 1:05:38Graham Stephan?

  It's like the wagyu where they show you like the certificate.

• 1:05:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like-

• 1:05:42Graham Stephan?

  Look at this. This is, you know.

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  Honestly, I mean, you have to have a leap of faith here and trust it. Like, I can't guarantee, I didn't see the placenta that it came from and wow.

• 1:05:53Graham Stephan?

  How do they get the placenta? Is that just donated or are we hoping it's, you don't ask the question?

• 1:05:59Speaker 01

  I don't know. Honestly, I don't know. I'm assuming that it's, it's all a hundred percent legal, above board. These guys were advertising on Instagram and whatnot.

• 1:06:09Jack Selby?

  What do you think about clavicular and his looks maxing? Do you think that looks maxing could have a positive impact on people? And do you agree with the sentiment that maybe it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to like body build to the max, to get super jacked in the gym and instead focus more so on your face with the halo effect and how that can improve your life?

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  I think looks maxing, when done appropriately and keeping somebody's age in mind is a great thing. I think we should all looks max. People call it about hard looks maxing versus soft. I think soft looks maxing is good versus hard. I don't think people should be smashing their faces. I don't think people should be using testosterone at the age of 14. I don't think you should be promoting. Looks maxing is the most important thing to teenagers or kids going through puberty who don't have any sense of self or self-worth and trying to tell them you have to look a certain way. I think it's bad. And so I think clavicular overall is a horrible influence on the world. He's extremely popular.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  And I think that the people that look up to clavicular are all people who are messed up and they're probably 13 to 16 years of age.

• 1:07:15Jack Selby?

  What do you think is the result of people following people like him?

• 1:07:19Speaker 01

  I think they have less self-worths, less confidence. And I think that they think that the world only matters if you look good. And so if you tried to ascend and you tried to do all the things and it didn't work, then what? Like, what do you do then? So, but if you tell them, hey, work on yourself, work on your personality, maybe, you know, progressive overload with women. Talk to a girl who's a one, you're too shy. Talk to a one. She's not intimidating. Work your way up to a two, three, four. That, to me, would be better advice than saying you have to smash your face and get a nose job and a chin implant and jaw surgery and, and limb lengthening and all this stuff. And if you don't have a Chad face, then you're screwed. It's not good.

• 1:07:59Jack Selby?

  Speaking of a one, one thing that I did really recently that I thought was fascinating was you could just upload a picture of your face to all of the different Chad GPT, Grok, Claude, et cetera, and ask it what it rates you out of 10. Have you ever done that?

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  I did what's, see, I'm old school. I'm older than you guys. We had something called Hot or Not.

• 1:08:19Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  When I grew up. And so there was even a TV show. And so when I first, I was in a small town of Yarmouth. There weren't many girls. I basically was like, I'm 22. I had to wait till girls turn 18, 19 at this point to start dating. There was, it's a very small town. So I went to the internet for dating. So I joined Hot or Not. And I would upload all my best model type photos where I'm like very lean and it's black and white, all the different things. And I would get really good ratings. So it was good for me. But if you aren't at least an eight, it's useless. There's no point. So I've done all those things.

• 1:08:51Jack Selby?

  What muscles do you think women look for most in men?

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  Women on average like a small waist and wider shoulders and they're going to look at the, the beach bod muscles more than anything. They're not going to be looking at your legs so much. They definitely notice your glutes without question. The most underrated muscle that men don't work on is by far the ass. By, by far. Every guy works out for themselves. They think they're training to impress girls. They're trying to impress boys and themselves. Men will go into the gym and will do curls all day long and bench presses and so on, but they won't do some hip thrusts, which is what the girls are looking at. Like girls will look at guys playing football. The women are watching football. That's the only thing they care about. They're looking at these asses bent over, throwing the football around.

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  So you gotta work your glutes. That is a must for, for the men. Men don't work their legs because you can wear pants and they don't need to see that. Or look at the men's Olympia here and they're in board shorts, like literally the, the best attractive men in the world and you're covering up their legs. Like that doesn't make any sense. So men know that abs is going to help and so they'll go on a diet and they'll work their abs, but they can still cover their legs up. So men still don't have legs, but I would say that my legs are probably my best body part and I don't even train them, but I do the bike ride, which is technically training them. And so I think if you want to stand out as a man, the wide shoulders, a small waist, so lean enough and having still an ass. Which is still gonna be hard, because if you're very lean, just like women, you're gonna lose the glutes.

• 1:10:22Speaker 01

  So just like as a man, if you're very low body fat, your butt's gonna be a lot smaller.

• 1:10:26Graham Stephan?

  I would say that.

• 1:10:27Jack Selby?

  Absent of a butt.

• 1:10:28Graham Stephan?

  Yes, but, only but, only because on Reddit, that exact question was asked, and most women said, forearms.

• 1:10:38Speaker 01

  And that women are liars. Remember the last time I came on here, we said that we don't ask women what they think, you tell them what to think? Women do not care about the forearms. This is not a thing.

• 1:10:46Graham Stephan?

  That was like the number one thing of like, what women look for in a guy is forearms.

• 1:10:50Speaker 01

  Reddit about their hands. There was two hands that said, which hands you like? And it's like, yeah, the thicker hand was better. But they had all these guys doing hand workouts to try to impress. I'm like, look, spend less of the time on that and get a job and have some money. Girls care about your wallet.

• 1:11:03Jack Selby?

  One thing I'm seeing a whole lot more recently is on the apps, girls talk about biceps. And I've seen it on like Instagram reels of like girls grabbing guys' biceps.

• 1:11:12Speaker 01

  They do like a big arm, definitely.

• 1:11:14Jack Selby?

  I, I, I knew that this was a thing like a long time ago when I was in like, you know, middle school and high school. And then I completely forgot it as a thing. And I thought they kind of just liked, you know, abs or whatever. And then all of a sudden, I feel like it becomes all of the rage once again is like big biceps on a guy.

• 1:11:27Speaker 01

  The thing is, the impressiveness of an arm is so low standard. Like it's so much easier to get a nicer impressive bicep than a glute. Like my arm is two inches bigger than it needs to be to be impressive. Like you don't need seventeen inch arms to have a decent body. It's like, just have a little bit of bicep. You guys know Charlie Penguin Z zero? He's got like twenty million followers? You ever seen him flex his bicep?

• 1:11:51Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:51Speaker 01

  He's got it. He's got the arms. He's only about a hundred and fifty-five pounds. He's not a big guy. He does a little bicep shot and it's like, whoa, impressive. You don't need like Will Tennyson arms to have a good, a good impressive arm.

• 1:12:04Jack Selby?

  Is it a good thing to be so conscious about the way that you look?

• 1:12:08Speaker 01

  I don't think it's a good thing to be overly conscious. And I think I'm definitely over the line of consciousness for that. And I think it's because of my involvement in bodybuilding, which is why I warn a lot of people, be careful of bodybuilding, even though it did great things for me, it also did some bad things. I abused steroids for ten years. I regret that. I, it took, I took it as far as I could natural. I did forty-two shows, a hundred percent natural. I did the best I could. But eventually I was tempted to use steroids because I wanted to get that IFBB Pro Card. So anyone that gets into bodybuilding and does good, eventually they're gonna be like, I want to use steroids. And I see all these amazing physiques, they're natural, they're sixteen, seventeen, eighteen. And boom, they're on steroids. Why? Because they want to bodybuild. And so bodybuilding, it can play mind tricks. It can make you think you're too small. And so when I was younger, I always thought I was fat because I would do a bodybuilding show and then I would gain twenty pounds after.

• 1:12:53Speaker 01

  Still, I'm still pretty lean for a normal guy, but I'm like comparing myself to that day on stage with the, the tan and the oil. And I'm like, oh man, I feel kind of fat compared to that. And so it, it, it can cause body dysmorphia. So you, you don't like the way you look. You're always thinking about it. And so I really caution people, be careful if you get into bodybuilding because it is a tough sport. And I say that from my own experience. I wish that people would realize that growing up is realizing Coach Greg was right all along. I mean, guys, I'm fifty-one, I've done the things, I've done the shows, I know what it's like. I was in your shoes at one point. And so when I tell you like, it's a scary sport. It's a scary sport.

• 1:13:26Graham Stephan?

  So if someone's trying to ascend, give us the first five things they do today.

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  Number one is to lose weight, for sure. There's not, there's no, there's nothing more important than that. They need to get a nice haircut. They need to, to like, to groom themselves, like grooming completely. They need to dress nice, including like shirt, pants, like all the way down to even, even shoes. I didn't realize this when I was younger. I used to just wear a tank top and sneakers all the time. So that's three. And then having more muscle, like putting on muscle, I think that comes like after all of these. And then the fifth one, ascending, man, I would say probably getting your teeth fixed and white, like straightening your teeth and having white teeth. I think teeth is, is a huge thing for, for people. Like you notice it right away if somebody has a nice smile.

• 1:14:11Graham Stephan?

  And what do you do if they're short? And what do you do if they're broke?

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  If you're short, make sure you're not bald and fat. And if you're broke, make sure you're not bald and fat.

• 1:14:20Speaker 06

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• 1:14:49Speaker 01

  So bald, fat and short. This is the three worst things you could be.

• 1:14:52Jack Selby?

  Do you think that I should start taking finasteride right now?

• 1:14:56Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:14:57Jack Selby?

  Why?

• 1:14:57Speaker 01

  I use, using finasteride and it has potential and for me, negative sexual side effects. So less bedroom performance.

• 1:15:05Jack Selby?

  What if I started taking finasteride and Cialis?

• 1:15:09Speaker 01

  That could counter, but rather than taking finasteride, I would use Farula Max, which our company sells, AHTLT. Farula, I'm, I'm taking it right now. You just take one pill every three or four days. It's gonna have the, the same effects of the, uh, the finasteride in terms of keeping more of your hair. So that's one of the huge side bonus benefits of this product. Farula is something that boosts testosterone.

• 1:15:29Jack Selby?

  So finasteride stops production of DHT, right? That's the thing though. Like I have a lot of body hair. And so I don't want, I, I, and body hair comes from production of DHT. And then hairline up top recedes because of production of DHT. So it seems like the exact perfect thing for me would be DHT inhibitors.

• 1:15:48Speaker 01

  I would take dutasteride if, if I had to recommend something over finasteride. Finasteride, there's the sexual side effects, like the potential to like

• 1:15:57Speaker 01

  not be able to have a, an erection, but also not have the same desire.

• 1:16:00Jack Selby?

  If I had that problem.

• 1:16:01Speaker 01

  If you take Cialis, it doesn't make you want sex more. It just makes your ability to perform it if you're in the mood easier. But it doesn't increase that desire. We're not talking about like oxytocin or something where it's like.

• 1:16:13Jack Selby?

  Right. And but, but that's still a small percentage of people that have that side effect with finasteride. So why?

• 1:16:18Speaker 01

  I've had, two of my friends have that effect, including me. So I don't know if it's underreported, but I mean, from the sample size that I've had, it's not really worth it.

• 1:16:27Jack Selby?

  You don't think it would be worth it just to try it out? And if I noticed that, then I just.

• 1:16:30Graham Stephan?

  So I would tell them, try it. I've been on finasteride for seven years now.

• 1:16:35Speaker 01

  And what dose? Half a milligram or one?

• 1:16:37Graham Stephan?

  Uh, one milligram a day. And I was really worried about the side effects. And I was like very cognizant about everything. And I was in my head, I think the first month, because I heard horror stories online.

• 1:16:48Speaker 01

  Even the thought of it could trigger it.

• 1:16:50Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. And I was aware of that. And at the end of the day, I was exactly the same. I noticed zero difference whatsoever.

• 1:16:55Jack Selby?

  Low before, low after.

• 1:16:57Speaker 01

  If anything, I would lower your dose to every other day instead of every day. I think that would be more beneficial. I don't think you need to do as much as to me, that's a high dose. I think that you would get as many benefits as you're getting, or at least eighty percent with half the dose. And so why?

• 1:17:11Graham Stephan?

  Even if I've been on it for seven years now.

• 1:17:13Speaker 01

  I would still, yeah, I would still lower it.

• 1:17:15Jack Selby?

  See, I like the, well, that's, but you're not experiencing side effects. So like, what do you? Like, I would like to start taking it because my hair is totally fine right now. But I just know over the course of the next twenty years, it's gonna continually slowly, slowly, slowly recede. And as Claviculum says, if you lose your hair, you lose everything.

• 1:17:36Speaker 01

  You lose a lot. You don't lose everything.

• 1:17:39Jack Selby?

  Yeah. Well, he said, what does he say? Like if you, you lose the game, if you lose your hair or something like that? Like if you don't have your hair, you have.

• 1:17:44Speaker 01

  I think in a video, he said he'd rather chop off his dick than lose his hair. And I'm like, well, if you chop off your dick and you have hair, are you gonna, what are you gonna, you're not gonna be able to do anything anyway. So at least, yeah.

• 1:17:54Graham Stephan?

  I feel like it only matters if you don't have a good like shaved head look.

• 1:17:58Jack Selby?

  Joe Rogan looks amazing.

• 1:17:59Speaker 01

  If you shave your head and you own it, you can look great. Like The Rock looks great, certain people, um, no problem. But if you're losing your hair, it's, it's, you're automatically less attractive.

• 1:18:10Graham Stephan?

  You know what's funny? There's this AI picture of Logan Paul without any hair. He looks really good without the hair, like really good. And I feel like if you just had that look, you're like, it looks better than having hair in a, in a weird way. There's an intimidation of just like, it's a powerful thing to not have hair.

• 1:18:27Speaker 01

  Jason Statham? I think this is another guy. It's like some, some guys can really pull it off, but not everyone can.

• 1:18:32Jack Selby?

  What are your thoughts on the modern dating scene? What do you think women are getting right and wrong? And what do you think men are getting right and wrong?

• 1:18:38Speaker 01

  The modern dating scene is a mess. Online dating is, is, is done. It's over. It, it's okay for hooking up if you're at least an eight out of ten or higher. The women who are on there, because there's so much less women on there, are being able to hook up with the guys who are eight, nines and tens, even if they're sixes, but for one night. And so then the women, because they've had that guy one time, think, well, that's what I deserve. So then they think they're more attractive than they are. So anyone that's on online dating, you're ruined. And so what you need to do is go out and meet people in person. Like online dating isn't gonna cut it. You need to.

• 1:19:09Jack Selby?

  How did you and Marie meet?

• 1:19:10Speaker 01

  She messaged me. And so, yeah, she, she sent me a DM. She messaged me. It's not online dating.

• 1:19:16Jack Selby?

  You guys met online and you.

• 1:19:18Speaker 01

  I would say the biggest problem.

• 1:19:19Jack Selby?

  What's that?

• 1:19:20Speaker 07

  I was a follower. Like I was watching him like every single day for three years. So I I knew who I was meeting.

• 1:19:27Speaker 01

  What women need to do to solve the problem is they stop, they need to stop making men chase them. Women need to say, I like this guy, I'm gonna go after him because that would solve everything because women are the, I don't know, the gateway to sex or whatever the word is, the the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of, let's say, relationships or marriage. And so the women need to go and chase the men that they want because they're the ones that are the gatekeepers. Men are just chasing all these girls. Half the time you don't know if they actually like you or not, they're just trying to get laid. And so the women don't know what to do. Should I have sex with this man? I want to be with him. And then they have sex and then the guy dumps him and it's like, it's just a big game. So there's problems there. But if women go after the guys that they want, life would be, all's life problems would be solved.

• 1:20:08Speaker 01

  This is it. That's all that women have to do is just start to make the first move, chase the guys that they want.

• 1:20:13Graham Stephan?

  And how much should a man financially support the girl that he's dating? For example, in your relationship, she already makes a lot of money. She said she makes over half a million dollars a year. Like, what do you, how do you know what you're supposed to pay for and what she's supposed to pay for?

• 1:20:26Speaker 01

  I think you should pay for as much as you can as a guy.

• 1:20:28Graham Stephan?

  So it's a guy's job to pay for everything?

• 1:20:30Speaker 01

  I think that in general, that's what women want. And I think that the ones that say that they don't are lying. And I think that women want a guy to provide and it makes them feel safe and comfortable and it's attractive. And so I think you should pay as much as you can. If you can't afford it, then don't. Like, if you're poor, you're you're working the best you can, you don't have money. You're gonna have to go for a girl that doesn't want that or need that. If you're with a girl that needs more money, pay as much as you can, do the things that you need to do. Just make sure that the only reason they're with you isn't for your money. If they're with you for other things and hey, the money's a bonus.

• 1:21:03Graham Stephan?

  What's your advice to Jack?

• 1:21:05Speaker 01

  To do for

• 1:21:06Jack Selby?

  So Jack, for dating, do you think, like, what would you rate me out of 10?

• 1:21:09Speaker 01

  On what scale? A clavicular scale or like my scale?

• 1:21:13Jack Selby?

  Your scale.

• 1:21:14Speaker 01

  I would say eight on 10.

• 1:21:15Jack Selby?

  Okay, I'll take it because then that means I meet the threshold.

• 1:21:18Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:21:18Jack Selby?

  Successful in dating apps.

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  You're also famous.

• 1:21:20Jack Selby?

  Probably give me like a four.

• 1:21:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, his scales is is horrible. I mean, I he would say you're probably a six or something like that, like, which is still probably pretty good on his scale.

• 1:21:28Jack Selby?

  So for dating, you would recommend that I go out to Trader Joe's?

• 1:21:33Speaker 01

  Need to meet people in the real world. And I think that the best way is to meet people that you like. Now, unfortunately, you like pickleball, which is the same thing that I like, but most women who I've seen play pickleball are 60. So you're gonna have a hard time meeting some hot girls, but like if you were at my crew in Halifax, you'd see like, oh, these are hot girls playing pickleball. Like, we had the zaddy cup at my house not too long ago. So like, we're big on pickleball. We had tournaments and we have chat, like every year we have a pickleball tournament for my birthday. We're all into pickleball and these are good looking people. So you you do the events that other people like. So if you're into pickleball, I would go to pickleball and I would start talking to girls who are playing pickleball. You have the same interest. If you like basketball, go do that. If you're into, I don't know, curling, whatever it might be,

• 1:22:16Speaker 01

  go and do the activities that they're doing and eventually you start talking and then you can start dating these people that have similar interests.

• 1:22:21Graham Stephan?

  See, my strategy has been I scroll Instagram, I see someone who looks interesting, send her to Jack. And then I hope he reaches out.

• 1:22:29Jack Selby?

  I like

• 1:22:30Graham Stephan?

  My feed right now, because I've been sending Jack so many messages, it's all women playing the piano for some reason and artists.

• 1:22:38Jack Selby?

  Look at this.

• 1:22:42Graham Stephan?

  They're all potential wives for Jack.

• 1:22:44Speaker 01

  So like, so you're just, you're finding these girls who are playing the piano and sending them to him and saying, go talk, talk to her?

• 1:22:51Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, it's usually a

• 1:22:52Jack Selby?

  DM them. So here is the current meta.

• 1:22:54Speaker 01

  You're famous enough where that actually can work, but this is not normal advice for like the people watching at home.

• 1:22:59Graham Stephan?

  We're talking about Jack right now.

• 1:23:00Speaker 01

  For you, you could just message a bunch of girls that you think are hot and just be like, hey, I think you're hot, we should go on a date. That would work.

• 1:23:06Jack Selby?

  I have not tried that yet.

• 1:23:07Speaker 01

  You should.

• 1:23:08Graham Stephan?

  That might be a little too forward.

• 1:23:10Jack Selby?

  Yeah, for me, would I, like, I'll typically just like have a random message that I'll send off to them and it works sometimes, but the problem is a girl that has, what I've noticed, like over 10,000 followers on Instagram, 85% of them are going to be guys. And then of that 85%, there's probably going to be like 10% of them, right? So like 85 dudes that are gonna be like really, really, really good. Right? Like they're either making a lot of money or doing really cool things or they're super attractive or like they're

• 1:23:38Speaker 01

  They're all players.

• 1:23:39Jack Selby?

  Around cool people. Exactly. And they have, they have game because they practice it. And so like, it's really hard to find girls on Instagram, but girls on Instagram are generally very attractive. And so it's like, okay, well, they meet the first threshold. And it's easier, obviously, if you're like sitting on your couch and you're like sending out Hail Marys there.

• 1:23:56Graham Stephan?

  I'm trying to, I'm trying to filter these.

• 1:23:58Jack Selby?

  The meat aisle.

• 1:23:58Graham Stephan?

  I'm trying to filter them and get the ones with talent, you know, if I see they're a great piano player, they're a great artist. Like, I'm trying to come up with with people who actually have some substance. Because there's a lot of them that just post these pictures and I send them off to Jack and I'm like, yeah, they're probably getting too much attention versus this, you know, they're playing the Moonlight Sonata really nice.

• 1:24:17Speaker 01

  See, that's the problem. All these girls that you're talking to, if they're good looking enough that you're interested, then there's probably a bunch of attractive guys that are also interested, but they're not all going to be the ones that are going to be good for them. They might be the ones that have a yacht and will say, I'll pay this much to come to Dubai and hang out with me. There's, this is just a horrible thing on the internet is that the whole world is able to date these people so that everyone thinks that their guy is two levels up from them. So most eight out of 10 women try to get 10s, six out of 10s try to get eights. It's this, no one wants to date where they're at. They're all dating above. So it's a huge problem. So all you can do is just ask a bunch of them out. I call it the shotgun effect.

• 1:24:53Jack Selby?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:24:53Speaker 01

  10.

• 1:24:54Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:55Speaker 01

  Say, hey, I think you're really cute. I like that you play the piano. I'm not gonna beat around the butch. I think we should go out tonight. I'd like to do this. And just take her out to something simple. Don't spend a lot of money on the first date because you want to eliminate the girls that are only using you for your money. And do something fun. Walk in the park, go for coffee, chat, whatever, whatever it is that's simple that you like and then chat and see if you have anything in common, then get a more serious date after that. Then you can start spending money on day two if you want, but not on day one.

• 1:25:21Jack Selby?

  So Kevin, what Greg was saying is that I should get lean and then start building muscle from being lean as opposed to right now trying to like bulk and get more muscle and then cut and be lean. You recommended the latter. He just said the former is better. What do you have to say about that?

• 1:25:39Speaker 04

  I mean, I think you would look better lean, but you told me your goals were, what, building muscle?

• 1:25:45Speaker 01

  You can do both. You can stay lean and put muscle on at the same time.

• 1:25:50Speaker 04

  Oh, there you go.

• 1:25:51Graham Stephan?

  All right.

• 1:25:52Speaker 01

  You can have your cake and eat it too.

• 1:25:54Jack Selby?

  I'm right and you're wrong. All right, now, the real reason why we brought Kevin here, aside from vindicating me, is you're gonna rate Kevin's physique.

• 1:26:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:26:02Jack Selby?

  All right, go ahead, Kev.

• 1:26:03Speaker 01

  We gotta see his abs. This is

• 1:26:05Graham Stephan?

  Kevin, you really bulked up, dude.

• 1:26:07Speaker 04

  Let's go.

• 1:26:08Jack Selby?

  All right, take off your shirt.

• 1:26:09Speaker 04

  All right.

• 1:26:11Graham Stephan?

  I remember, I remember you like a holy

• 1:26:14Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Great physique.

• 1:26:16Graham Stephan?

  When did this happen?

• 1:26:17Speaker 01

  It's a 9.5 out of 10.

• 1:26:19Jack Selby?

  Nine and a half?

• 1:26:20Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. It's great physique. He's got a small waist, he's got abs, he's not even flexing, he's got wider shoulders, he's got a vein coming down his arms. Turn around from the, let's see the back here. Oh, yeah. Nine and a half out of 10. This is a physique, this is, you you don't need any more muscle to attract girls. You're you're set where you're at, right? Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:26:38Jack Selby?

  Can we cut this actually?

• 1:26:40Speaker 01

  He's like, this sucks for me.

• 1:26:42Graham Stephan?

  He's been working out for like three months.

• 1:26:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's genetics.

• 1:26:44Graham Stephan?

  What are you, what are you, are you taking anything?

• 1:26:46Speaker 04

  Uh, yeah, I'm on, I'm on like 600 milligrams of TRT. I'm just kidding. Uh, no, I've been working out consistently for like three months, but like I was

• 1:26:58Speaker 04

  no, no, but I was, I was, I started working out like when I was 16 and it's like I've been on and off with the workouts. And then I recently picked it back up three months ago.

• 1:27:06Speaker 01

  Okay, so you got muscle memory, used to work out and you're just back into it. It's like three months of working out, this is already there?

• 1:27:11Graham Stephan?

  That's insane.

• 1:27:12Speaker 01

  Imagine with three years if you hadn't trained, but yeah, you don't need to train. Like, guys think they need like so much muscle to look good. It's ridiculous. Most girls will say if you have more muscle, it's actually a bad thing.

• 1:27:22Graham Stephan?

  You have the frame. The Bruce Lee thing going on, you know?

• 1:27:25Jack Selby?

  Why do you, is he Tristan Lee, Bruce Lee?

• 1:27:27Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, he's got the Lee's.

• 1:27:29Jack Selby?

  You're only comparing them.

• 1:27:31Speaker 01

  Nice. Is a physique like Hussein Farhat with less muscle, but Hussein is like quite big upper body. Yeah. Remember what I said earlier, what guys need, the wide, uh, wide shoulders and a small waist? It's like, this is the most important. Probably work on his glutes, I'm sure. We don't see the legs or anything, but like, and he's in pants, you don't need to show the legs. See what I mean? Guys can get away with it. They don't need to show their legs off.

• 1:27:53Jack Selby?

  All right. Well, Kevin, thank you for

• 1:27:55Speaker 04

  I have a question for Greg, if you don't mind.

• 1:27:57Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:57Speaker 04

  Uh, like, out of

• 1:27:58Speaker 01

  Speak in the mic.

• 1:27:58Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:27:59Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:59Speaker 04

  Uh, based on my physique, like what muscle?

• 1:28:01Jack Selby?

  What group do you think I should focus on?

• 1:28:02Speaker 01

  Glutes, but I don't see them, but like, yeah.

• 1:28:04Jack Selby?

  Okay, like upper body. No, show me your glutes. No, no, no. Put it in the camera. This will be for members of all.

• 1:28:09Speaker 01

  For, for like bodybuilding purposes?

• 1:28:11Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:12Speaker 01

  Shoulders, the, the side delts, because if you got even wider, it's just gonna make the frame look even more ridiculous.

• 1:28:18Jack Selby?

  Yeah, that's what Claude told me, so.

• 1:28:20Speaker 01

  Wow, really?

• 1:28:21Jack Selby?

  Greg is right on with Claude.

• 1:28:22Speaker 01

  Go. Definitely.

• 1:28:23Jack Selby?

  All right, sweet. I appreciate you guys. All right, yeah, thanks, Kev.

• 1:28:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, I mean, he could, he could afford to bulk because he's so lean right now.

• 1:28:30Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:30Speaker 01

  But like, if you're, if you had 10 more pounds of fat on, I would be like, why would you bulk? That would be stupid.

• 1:28:34Graham Stephan?

  Greg, you know what would crush? If you could come out with an AI something or other that tells you what you need to work on.

• 1:28:40Jack Selby?

  Yeah, that would be.

• 1:28:40Speaker 01

  Well, we have it. My, uh, me and Eric Janiky, the sculpted app, it drops October 1st. It literally has, like, we fed in like 200

• 1:28:49Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:49Speaker 01

  bodies and I gave the body fat analysis, trained AI to treat, to teach how to do a body fat assessment. It analyzes your physique from the back, takes whatever, a lot of, several minutes.

• 1:28:59Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:59Speaker 01

  And then it shoots out which body fat, or sorry, which muscles you need to work out. So your biceps are a little bit too small and it designs a workout catered to developing that physique so that you have the ideal physique. Literally, that's in that app.

• 1:29:12Graham Stephan?

  So the third claim is that most men who take steroids would have been better off never touching them.

• 1:29:17Speaker 01

  Yes, most people definitely, because most people who take steroids are not doing so with the advice of a doctor. If it's a doctor that's telling you to take them and prescribing them, or you're low on testosterone, then absolutely you're better off with them. But most people are taking them and then when they take them and they're taking too high of a dose and it's shortening their life. And when they get older, then they'll regret it, by, by then it's too late.

• 1:29:37Graham Stephan?

  Do you worry it's becoming too normalized?

• 1:29:39Speaker 01

  It's, of course. I'm not worried that it is. I know that it is. It's way too normalized. It's, it's, it's gotten crazy. Like 16 year olds are doing steroids now and bragging about it. It's, at this point, it's, it's insane.

• 1:29:50Graham Stephan?

  What's the outcome of something like that?

• 1:29:52Speaker 01

  Well, people are gonna continue to use them even more. Every person that uses it that has a fan, couple of years younger, and so it trickles down to younger and younger people using steroids. And then what we're gonna see is in the future, more and more people are gonna die. All these side effects are gonna come through and we're gonna see people dying younger and younger and younger.

• 1:30:08Graham Stephan?

  Now, you've previously said that people should be transparent about using steroids. And that's almost a form of harm reduction if people are open about it. But do you feel like people being open about it is also advertising it?

• 1:30:19Speaker 01

  Definitely. That's the negative part about it. So the positive about me saying, hey, I've used steroids, have done this, is so that they don't think that they can get the same physique without steroids. It doesn't put unrealistic expectations, but it also allows people to know more about it. But it's the same thing like anything. Like when we were kids, they would say, oh, don't teach these people about sex because then they'll wanna do it. Or it's the same thing like drugs. Oh, if you'd start telling people that this, this is a drug, this is what exists in the world, there's gonna be more people who wanna do it. But I always think that, like, um, honesty is the best policy and, and, and admitting things that, that's going on. And so you, you're better off admitting the truth than to just to hide it from people and then to have them find out on their own.

• 1:30:56Graham Stephan?

  Do you think people have taken steroids because of your videos?

• 1:30:59Speaker 01

  Definitely. A hundred percent for sure. But I think there's more people that have stopped or not taken it than who have started because of me. And so if there's 5,000 that took it because of me and said, I wanna be the next Greg, or I wanna do it because of what he's done. Then there's probably 10,000 that stopped because of what I've done. So I think there's a net positive, but there's certainly some people that have had, that because of my videos, it's, it's done bad things, for sure.

• 1:31:27Graham Stephan?

  What would you tell your 16 year old son if he says to you that I wanna look exactly like you did?

• 1:31:32Speaker 01

  I would say how bad of an idea that is. It's like, it's not, not good, that there's too much pressure. I would explain how hard it was to bodybuild, how much, uh, low energy I had, the, the feelings I had, the, the pressure that I had. And I'd say it isn't worth it. I would probably try to steer my own kids, if I had one, to do a different sport. I'd say, can we not try maybe running or basketball or pickleball? There's so many other sports that we could do aside from bodybuilding. Um, bodybuilding, one of the worst sports you could do in the world. So I wouldn't, if I had a kid, be like happy that they wanna follow my footsteps and do the same sport.

• 1:32:06Graham Stephan?

  What about people taking TRT? How many actually need it versus how many people are just taking it because they wanna get more muscle and have more energy?

• 1:32:14Speaker 01

  If I had to put a percentage, I would say at least 90% of people on TRT don't need it and it's just an excuse to go on a cycle. At least 90%.

• 1:32:22Graham Stephan?

  What's the harm if they start taking TRT?

• 1:32:25Speaker 01

  The harm is that once you start getting used to it and you like it, you're gonna do more. So it's kinda like, let's say.

• 1:32:30Graham Stephan?

  It's like Adderall.

• 1:32:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. Dr- everything that's bad that we could list, gambling, drugs, any, anything, it's the worry is that they're gonna do more. And so most people's TRT is not TRT. It's like, uh, it's a small cycle. Like even my dose at 140, for most people, it's way too high. Most people would need 100 or less. But most people doing TRT are doing 200 or 250, which is way too much. It's ridiculous.

• 1:32:54Graham Stephan?

  What's the worst part about it? And what's the worst thing that you've seen?

• 1:32:58Speaker 01

  The worst part about bodybuilding is the pressure to use drugs and the encouragement to do it. It's not just like, you can use it. It's like, why aren't you using it yet? Like you have to imagine I was natural 42 shows and everyone's like, you're natural and you look like that? Why aren't you on drugs yet? What, what are you waiting for? And so it's kinda like, I should take steroids. Like you're encouraged, you're like molded into doing this. They're like, why aren't you on drugs? Versus other sports, let's say you're doing the 100 meter dash, it'd be like, you would be thinking, well, maybe I should cheat and, and, and use steroids to, to like win. But in bodybuilding, it's not cheating, it's expected.

• 1:33:31Graham Stephan?

  What percentage of guys who use testosterone are doing it actually for performance as opposed to replacement?

• 1:33:39Speaker 01

  Well, the majority of people doing, using steroids is, are using it for cosmetics and not for performance. Most people on steroids is to look better. It's certainly for the aesthetics and not for performance. So it's not mostly by athletes. So we all picture the bodybuilder competing. It's almost none of those people. It's such a small percentage of people using steroids. It's almost always guys who wanna look better with their shirts off in the summer.

• 1:34:01Graham Stephan?

  Have fitness influencers made people less healthy or more healthy?

• 1:34:05Speaker 01

  I think that overall more healthy, because I think most fitness influencers are not encouraging steroid use. They're actually healthy people. But just that maybe some of the people that come to mind are, are guys like, uh, guys who are on steroids or, or competing in the Mr. Olympia. But most fitness influencers aren't bodybuilders. We just maybe think of it that way.

• 1:34:24Graham Stephan?

  Who is the worst fitness influencer right now?

• 1:34:27Speaker 01

  Eric English. He's 16, so his audience is all, I'm gonna say 12 to 16 years of age. And so knowing that he's on steroids, knowing that he's promoted peptides, so much so that Instagram had to ban him and he's still on TikTok. And he's still promoting these horrible videos and he's still trying to put on more size. It's, it's horrible because his influence is so big. It's because he's such a famous guy and he's so young. And I think when he gets older, he's gonna regret what he's doing. But the way I see it is it's almost not his fault because he's so young. It's basically like he was almost groomed to be like this.

• 1:34:59Graham Stephan?

  What do his parents think about this?

• 1:35:01Speaker 01

  He only has his dad left. His mother passed away from cancer, maybe a couple of years ago. He became so famous as like an 11 year old, like a really young kid with such a great message, him and his sister. But you get into the fitness industry, I think he's sponsored by like Young LA or whatever it is. And it's like all the people, almost not all, a lot of those athletes are also on steroids. So you meet your, your peers and they're on steroids and they're a little bit older and then you're tempted to do the same thing. And then you do it. And then your followers are younger than you and you see him doing it and then they do it. And it keeps trickling down younger and younger and younger. Before you know it, we're gonna see 12 year olds on steroids.

• 1:35:40Graham Stephan?

  Do you think it's body dysmorphia at that point, or do you think it's more just peer pressure?

• 1:35:45Speaker 01

  I actually, I don't think it's body dysmorphia at that point. Like he's not, not that he's competing. I think it's that, it's, it's, it's the dopamine, the addiction. The, the bigger you get, the more compliments you get. Every time you add 10 pounds in your bench press, every time you add another pound of muscle. Every photo that you post where you're doing the bicep and you're getting a thousand likes, a million likes of comments, you're gonna be a pro. And it's, it's so addictive. Like how do you tell a kid to stop wanting that? It, you, you can't. So there's social media is, is ruining it for everyone.

• 1:36:14Graham Stephan?

  So what do you think of the long-term consequences of Eric English's usage?

• 1:36:18Speaker 01

  There are millions of teenagers right now being shown somebody who's extremely successful because of using steroids. And they're gonna think, why wouldn't I do the same thing?

• 1:36:28Graham Stephan?

  But in his own personal life, what do you think is gonna happen to his health?

• 1:36:31Speaker 01

  Well, he posted, uh, three, four days ago, I have sleep apnea. I just recorded a video on Eric. It's posted right now. It says Eric English is gonna die. So what is gonna happen? He's literally going to die. Like literally.

• 1:36:45Graham Stephan?

  What's causing the sleep apnea?

• 1:36:47Speaker 01

  When you put on much more muscle and your neck gets thicker and you have more muscle, there's more pressure on your throat and you can't breathe as probably. So during the night, you're literally suffocating and that's taking years off of your life. It's really, really bad. So during the night, you wouldn't be able to breathe. So you're basically like waking yourself up multiple times a night without being able to breathe. That's just like early on and that's gonna continue to progress and it's gonna spread throughout the body, different problems, kidney, liver, heart. Horrible.

• 1:37:15Graham Stephan?

  At his current rate, how long do you think he has to live?

• 1:37:17Speaker 01

  I think if he continues to abuse steroids like this, he'll be in his mid twenties.

• 1:37:23Speaker 01

  It's bad, really bad. Imagine sleep apnea at 16. He's already, he put on 80 pounds of muscle in like a year or two? And he's bench pressing 405 at 16. Like I, I trained, I was mid twenties before I could do that.

• 1:37:36Graham Stephan?

  Do you think he's now suffered permanent damage for the rest of his life? Or do you think if he stopped everything tomorrow, that he'd be fine?

• 1:37:43Speaker 01

  It's, there's a chance that it's not permanent, but probably there is. To the same extent, I'm sure that I had permanent damage that I'm not aware of that's happened. So for example, left ventricular hypertrophy, so enlargement of the heart, it's, it's getting bigger. And even though I'm off steroids right now, there's probably damage that's there that I'm not aware of, that you won't see. And so let's say I live to be 80, I probably would have lived to be 85, 90. You, you just don't know. So hopefully he stops sooner rather than later. And just like anything, if you're smoking cigarettes for 10 years, well, if you stop, that's, you're going to live longer than if you do the one more year.

• 1:38:18Graham Stephan?

  Is it safe to quit steroids cold turkey?

• 1:38:22Speaker 01

  It's safer than continuing.

• 1:38:24Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 1:38:24Speaker 01

  It isn't really safe because when you're on steroids, you're going to have a whole lot of testosterone. But then your body isn't producing it anymore. Your balls are basically on vacation. It's going to take a long time to wake them up. So you'll have a period of time, probably six months, maybe a year. Cause he's young, probably closer to six months where he's going to have extremely low levels of testosterone. So when I cut out testosterone after abusing it for 10 years, my testosterone levels wasn't being produced. So I went to the doctor, testosterone levels in the toilet, 47 nanograms per deciliter roughly. Sent me to an endocrinologist, a specialist in hormones, who did not want to prescribe testosterone or steroids, whatever for me. But he's like, you not having TRT is worse than you having TRT.

• 1:39:05Speaker 01

  And I made an oath to do no harm. And I know that if I don't prescribe this, you will have worse health than if you do this. Cause your body is not producing testosterone, which is bad for your heart and all these things. So not just your heart, your mentality, everything. So. Yeah, it's bad, but it'll bounce back. But I mean, if, if he really should stop, he should probably taking something like enclomiphene or, or something to get him to bounce back, HCG, these different things.

• 1:39:29Graham Stephan?

  Have your thoughts changed on Togi?

• 1:39:31Speaker 01

  Togi's a lot better now. Well, Togi used to be the worst influencer, but since that time, he went from promoting steroids and using recreational drugs all the time to basically donating half his money to charities and not doing drugs and finding God. So he's, he's basically done every good thing you could imagine, except he's still promotes gambling. So that's the only bad thing. I would say only, but it's pretty bad. But like, I can understand why he would. It's, it's, he loves doing it. It would be like me promoting bodybuilding when I was a bodybuilder. It's like, you love it so much. You want other people to share your passion, but that passion is horrible.

• 1:40:05Graham Stephan?

  Do you feel like you had any part in that change?

• 1:40:09Speaker 01

  I would think so.

• 1:40:10Graham Stephan?

  And calling him out and.

• 1:40:11Speaker 01

  I, I, I'd like to think so. And I mean, he said in some videos, hey, I want to get my blood work better than Coach Greg or Greg's going to look at my blood. So maybe he's thinking like, geez, if I keep doing these things, my, my blood work is going to keep getting bad. Or maybe if I stop, it will get better. So I would like to think that I've made a difference.

• 1:40:29Graham Stephan?

  What's your advice to him today?

• 1:40:31Speaker 01

  Keep doing what he's doing and stop gambling.

• 1:40:34Graham Stephan?

  So we have pictures of different physiques and then you're going to answer questions about these physiques. Can someone achieve this physique naturally?

• 1:40:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, many people can. Probably 25% of people could get that physique naturally.

• 1:40:48Graham Stephan?

  Can the average person achieve this naturally though?

• 1:40:51Speaker 01

  Without extreme suffering and having a shitty life, definitely not. Like in other words, if you're an average person and you use a GLP and you train hard for 10 years and you dedicate yourself six days a week and you do your cardio. I would say a lot of people could achieve this physique, but they would hate their lives looking like that. They would like the compliments. But it's not worth it. I think that's way too lean for somebody to try to maintain. It's not healthy to be that lean. And so that's like, to me, not a type of physique that somebody should be aspiring to get to. It's, it's too hard, although it's not impossible to get.

• 1:41:27Graham Stephan?

  What's the hardest part about this?

• 1:41:29Speaker 01

  The leanness, being that lean. Like he probably suffered to get like that. So yeah, that, that very hard to get.

• 1:41:36Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. What about something like this?

• 1:41:38Speaker 01

  Name again?

• 1:41:38Graham Stephan?

  Cristiano Ronaldo?

• 1:41:39Speaker 01

  A Photoshop version of Cristiano is way harder to get than Brad Pitt. What did I say?

• 1:41:45Graham Stephan?

  Cristiano.

• 1:41:46Speaker 01

  I can't pronounce this guy's name. This is tough. This is way harder to get than Brad Pitt for sure. And this is like, he doesn't even look like this.

• 1:41:54Graham Stephan?

  So how long would it take someone that's starting from average to look like this?

• 1:41:58Speaker 01

  I would say 10% of people could get like this maybe, and it would probably take five to 10 years of training.

• 1:42:05Graham Stephan?

  What about Kevin?

• 1:42:05Speaker 01

  And they would suffer like.

• 1:42:06Graham Stephan?

  How long would it take Kevin to look like this?

• 1:42:09Speaker 01

  How long could Kevin take to look like this? It would be different. I think Kevin could surpass this look in five years.

• 1:42:15Graham Stephan?

  Really?

• 1:42:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. This, see with Cristiano, the problem is his waistline is a bit thicker, but his conditioning is really good. But he has a much better aesthetic physique. So he could look better than this.

• 1:42:28Graham Stephan?

  What about Jack? Could Jack look like that?

• 1:42:30Speaker 01

  I don't think you could look like this.

• 1:42:33Graham Stephan?

  Could I look like that?

• 1:42:34Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:42:37Speaker 01

  With, with steroids, for sure. Like absolutely both.

• 1:42:40Graham Stephan?

  What would it take for me to look like that without steroids?

• 1:42:42Speaker 01

  Better genetics.

• 1:42:45Graham Stephan?

  Let's just say I want.

• 1:42:46Speaker 01

  Literally, I mean.

• 1:42:47Graham Stephan?

  But let's just say I want to look like that. I said, I want to dedicate.

• 1:42:50Speaker 01

  People hire me that say these kinds of things. They'll be like, Greg, I want to look like you. I'm like, well, I want to look like me, but I have great genetics.

• 1:42:57Graham Stephan?

  I'm not going to look like you. I, I feel like I have a chance. If I said, hey, all I want to do for the next five years is dedicate my life to looking like that. At the end of the five years, I want to look like that. I'll eat whatever you say. I'll do whatever work naturally.

• 1:43:10Speaker 01

  I think you could look like your own version of what you would look like, but it would be different than this. It's just a different look. It's like, you could look for you amazing, but it would be a different look than this. You could get that body fat percentage in two months easily, but you wouldn't have the size. So you would need to train for a long time to get that. And remember, we're looking at a photoshopped version of Ronaldo, who's one of the best athletes in the world.

• 1:43:34Graham Stephan?

  What about this?

• 1:43:36Speaker 01

  No, he can't even look like this without steroids. What's this guy's name? He's that Creed guy, the fighter?

• 1:43:41Graham Stephan?

  Michael B. Jordan?

• 1:43:42Speaker 01

  So Michael B. Jordan is not natty. So he's using steroids to look like this. And so to look like this, you would also need steroids. Now what percentage could do this natural? One in a thousand guys could probably achieve this look natural. Like I think I had probably a better build than this when I was natural, but I also had great genetics and I trained my whole life for it.

• 1:44:01Graham Stephan?

  And you know a hundred percent he's not natty?

• 1:44:03Speaker 01

  No, nothing's a hundred percent, but I would bet a lot of money that I would.

• 1:44:07Graham Stephan?

  What are the giveaways?

• 1:44:09Speaker 01

  The size and the fact that, see, I, I know his transformation more. I know how much muscle he put on a, a certain period of time. So just looking at that physique, I can't tell if he's natural or not. It's how fast somebody puts muscle on in a short period of time. And when you say, oh, I put on 20 pounds of muscle in four to six months, it's like, what do you mean? Especially if you haven't, like if you average five pounds of muscle a year and suddenly you put on 20, well, that year you did something. But just having a physique like that doesn't mean you don't.

• 1:44:38Graham Stephan?

  Now, what about this? Surely I could get that.

• 1:44:40Speaker 01

  Uh, still no.

• 1:44:41Graham Stephan?

  No.

• 1:44:42Speaker 01

  Still, still no. These are some of the best physiques in the, in the world, in the movie entertainment. Like you've got to imagine this guy is famous, not just because of his acting skills, but because of his physique. So we're thinking about all the people that would want to be in his shoes. There's probably a million. They're all actors. They, they pick out, okay, who has the acting skills? And then it's like, who has the physique to go with that? So to compare to the top 10 actors physiques on, you know, movies.

• 1:45:12Graham Stephan?

  So let's just say then, let's just say I want to look like that and I'll do whatever it takes.

• 1:45:16Speaker 01

  Then probably within a year.

• 1:45:19Graham Stephan?

  If I, what, what do I have to do to do that?

• 1:45:21Speaker 01

  Just test.

• 1:45:23Graham Stephan?

  Just testosterone.

• 1:45:23Speaker 01

  Just test to do it.

• 1:45:24Graham Stephan?

  I think he's also 6'6".

• 1:45:26Speaker 01

  Well, it doesn't matter the height.

• 1:45:27Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, but just disproportionately.

• 1:45:29Speaker 01

  You could tell me he was five foot six or six foot six. I can't tell enough.

• 1:45:33Graham Stephan?

  I feel like I could look like that naturally, working out consistently and eating a good diet, uh, in a year.

• 1:45:39Speaker 01

  Aren't you working out now though?

• 1:45:42Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, but not as strong as I probably could and I could eat.

• 1:45:45Speaker 01

  How often are you working out right now?

• 1:45:47Graham Stephan?

  Six days a week, but some of those are really just like, some of those are cardio days where I just, I put on a podcast, listen to a podcast, uh, you know.

• 1:45:53Speaker 01

  You're lifting already six days a week. If you told me, I only lift weights twice a week and mostly I do cardio and I only train half ass, I would say maybe. But because you're already, the fact you're going to the gym six days a week, even if you're training half ass, you're getting 80 to 90% of the benefits that you could get already. Like the difference from training moderately hard to like perfect and having the best app, like using my sculpted app, doing everything. You're only going to talk about 10 or 20% difference here.

• 1:46:22Speaker 01

  Now there's 0% chance you can look like this guy.

• 1:46:25Graham Stephan?

  Thanks.

• 1:46:25Speaker 01

  David Laid.

• 1:46:27Graham Stephan?

  I can't look like David Laid. He didn't know who David Laid was like a month ago.

• 1:46:31Speaker 01

  David Laid is one of the most aesthetic physiques in fitness industry of all time. So he's up there with Jeff Seid. He would be the next guy after Jeff Seed in this world of aesthetics. He's about six foot three and about 200 pounds shredded. And he, as he made a crazy transformation, which made him famous. He was like 13, 14 years of age. He basically had no muscle and then he got huge.

• 1:46:52Graham Stephan?

  Is he natural?

• 1:46:52Speaker 01

  He's not natural either. And I think he's probably natural now, aside from peptides, which he's admitted to, which is why we know he's not natural because he's used banned peptides. But he also had a period of time when he put up 80 pounds on his bench press from 315 to 395 in a matter of like three months. And he was also deadlifting 675 pounds at about, or maybe even 700 or something at like 18, 19 years of age. And so David Laid, all of a sudden, there was a period of time in his teen years, he just blew up in terms of strength. And that was when he was most suspicious. So I've done a natty or not, and I didn't think that he was natural. So I've stated not natty, but crazy proportions. He is the most like what this guy looks like, except for he would not be able to get to that level natural, I don't think.

• 1:47:35Graham Stephan?

  So here's an old photo of me.

• 1:47:37Speaker 01

  And we're talking about Kevin when I said he.

• 1:47:39Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay. This is a whole photo of me. Yes. What about it?

• 1:47:44Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. How long until Graham can look like that? Could get back to that.

• 1:47:47Speaker 01

  I was going to say, how long did I take to look like that? Um, yeah, this is not going to happen.

• 1:47:51Graham Stephan?

  Were you on steroids during that?

• 1:47:53Speaker 01

  This was natural at, uh, I think I was 160 something pounds at the time. So this is a lot of muscle, which is oddly enough, I'm way bigger than that now, but you can't tell. It looks, it looks like a lot. It's me in the pool. I, I, I'm, I'm 160 something pounds and this is the day after competing in a bodybuilding competition.

• 1:48:14Graham Stephan?

  So you seem to really remember this day. What was your first meal after?

• 1:48:19Speaker 01

  Oh God, no, I don't remember. This is probably 2000, I'm going to guess 2006. I think is 2006 and I believe I was 164, five, six pounds, somewhere around there.

• 1:48:35Speaker 06

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• 1:49:03Speaker 01

  And so we have Samson Doda morphed into 100 extra pounds of muscle. This is absolutely crazy.

• 1:49:12Jack Selby?

  How long until Graham can look like that?

• 1:49:14Speaker 01

  Until, until they develop AI robots and they can transfer his brain into the robot.

• 1:49:20Jack Selby?

  Lastly, we have this.

• 1:49:22Speaker 01

  Sam Sulek. Yeah, I don't even, at my biggest, I wasn't even that big. So even with steroids, and I was like 40, I still wasn't as big as him at like 25.

• 1:49:32Jack Selby?

  Do you think-

• 1:49:33Speaker 01

  230 pounds shredded in there.

• 1:49:34Jack Selby?

  Do you think he'll end up being number one?

• 1:49:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, 0% chance, not even a 1 in a million shot of being number one.

• 1:49:40Jack Selby?

  Him?

• 1:49:41Speaker 01

  Not even close. The, a better question would be, could he ever win a pro show? Could he ever be in the top 50 in the world? I would say no. Maybe 1 in 1,000 chance of being in the top, like, 50. Sam has, is almost maximized what he can do in classic physique. He's basically at the top of the weight class. And so if he put on 5 pounds more muscle, he can't compete in that category. And so the reason he can't be the best in the world in classic physique, which would be like Sebum or Ramon Dino or Mike Somerfeld, all these guys, is because of the frame, like the genetics of his body. He doesn't have the aesthetics, the smallest waist, the widest shoulders, the, that pleasing look. He's just really good at what he does. And trust me, being an IFBB pro and where he is, like he's,

• 1:50:24Speaker 01

  like, he gets, I think, 8th place or so in his last bodybuilding show as a pro. It's hard to do, but there's no where's to go. Like, I saw Anton at this, at the show here just before I came in. Anton is 22 years of age. Anton could not diet for a month and still beat him at the future best that he could ever be. It's not even close.

• 1:50:44Graham Stephan?

  What makes Anton so superior?

• 1:50:47Speaker 01

  Anton's waist is like 4 inches smaller. All his muscles are more bubbly. The, the insertions look better. The detail, the crispiness, like there's certain parts of a body that just look better. Like, some people's bodies look amazing. Like, Sebum has horrible legs from the front. Like, the, the quads don't look that good. His hamstrings don't look that good. Regan Grimes, his hamstrings look phenomenal. They're, they're insane. Sebum looks good because he can do an incredible vacuum pose and he has the widest shoulders in the world. And on a side chest, he looks unbelievable, like right up there with the IFBB pro, like in the open class. It just, certain things look good. Sebum's bicep doesn't really look good. It's just the certain genetics.

• 1:51:31Speaker 01

  And this Anton guy, everything looks insane. It doesn't make sense. So Sam Sulek has a lot of good body parts, but as a whole aesthetically, he's not close to the top of the top.

• 1:51:42Graham Stephan?

  How much money do you make if you win a bodybuilding competition?

• 1:51:45Speaker 01

  Depending on the show, between $2,500 and I think it's a half a million for the Olympia, maybe it's 600,000 now.

• 1:51:55Speaker 01

  The Arnold and the Olympia are like at least a half a million.

• 1:51:58Graham Stephan?

  How much money does it take leading up to that? Like, let's just say you win 500,000.

• 1:52:02Speaker 01

  Like, how much body, how much muscle-

• 1:52:04Graham Stephan?

  How much have you invested?

• 1:52:05Speaker 01

  How much you spend on drugs to compete in a show?

• 1:52:06Graham Stephan?

  Just everything, yeah.

• 1:52:07Speaker 01

  The top guys, not classic, but like open bodybuilding, and it's mostly on growth hormone, would be upwards of $100,000 a year to prep for that. So you're going broke on it. Most bodybuilders are selling steroids to, to pay for the drugs that they're doing themselves in order to compete. So most pros, for a living, sell steroids. It's just, it's, it's in secret.

• 1:52:28Graham Stephan?

  How do they legally sell steroids?

• 1:52:29Speaker 01

  Well, you don't, you don't tell anyone.

• 1:52:32Graham Stephan?

  So they're making money under the table?

• 1:52:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Because you need to spend about, you need about $100,000 a year to compete at the top of the top level. And you have the physique to back it up. And so if I'm trying to buy steroids and I see that guy and he's one of the best bodybuilders in the world, I'm thinking, well, I'll just buy it from him. The stuff he has clearly works. So that's extremely common. So unless you're, like Sam Sulek doesn't need to sell anything. He's already a multimillionaire from being famous. But if you don't have fame and you're a lower-level person, most pro bodybuilders are probably going to be trainers who coach people. And when you coach people, typically you sell them the products that they need. And so that's how you're making your money.

• 1:53:09Graham Stephan?

  So for an average person who wants to compete and win, could they do that without being already financially independent?

• 1:53:16Speaker 01

  I used to win shows natural against people on steroids as a natural, but I had really great genetics, so I could do it without spending a lot. But I would say most people need to have money, absolutely, to bodybuild. It's a very expensive sport.

• 1:53:27Graham Stephan?

  Is it possible to win and still hold a job from like 9 to 5?

• 1:53:31Speaker 01

  I was a schoolteacher until, until I turned pro. The year I turned IFBB pro, I was a schoolteacher that year. So absolutely, 9 to 5 job, no problem.

• 1:53:40Jack Selby?

  So I've also brought one other person. This is my most ripped friend out of everybody. And he's come over here, Brett, get over here.

• 1:53:49Speaker 01

  What's up? Brett's also 6'6". Good to meet you. What's the height?

• 1:53:55Speaker 06

  I'm 6'3".

• 1:53:56Speaker 01

  6'3", okay.

• 1:53:57Jack Selby?

  Yeah, go ahead, take, take off your shirt, like, yeah, show off, show off the physique. Come, come over here, like, in the, in the camera.

• 1:54:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:54:04Jack Selby?

  Yeah, yeah, right here.

• 1:54:06Speaker 01

  Right in between.

• 1:54:09Speaker 01

  He's, he's too tall. And just getting crotch, you might have to-

• 1:54:14Speaker 06

  Oh, do I, gotta get lower?

• 1:54:19Speaker 01

  I mean, on, on a scale of 1 to 10, his physique would be for most people like a 9, 9.9. He's not as lean as the last guy, but honestly, he doesn't, as Kevin. Kevin, but, but way more muscle, taller, more attractive overall. So I would say like,

• 1:54:36Speaker 01

  this would be a physique that all the girls would like, all the girls would like this physique, for sure. And does he need to do anything? No. If he wanted to be a bodybuilder, it's going to be very hard because the shoulders aren't really, really wide and the waist isn't really, really small. So Kevin, if Kevin took steroids and you took steroids, I think Kevin would have an overall better physique.

• 1:54:53Graham Stephan?

  Damn, Kevin.

• 1:54:54Speaker 01

  What do you- But you don't need to take steroids or unless you're already on them, um, then, you know.

• 1:54:58Jack Selby?

  Do you think he's natty?

• 1:54:59Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:55:01Speaker 06

  You don't think I'm natty?

• 1:55:01Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:55:03Speaker 06

  I'm natty.

• 1:55:04Speaker 01

  I don't know if that's true. I, I, I'm hearing it, but that's what, of, I would say that.

• 1:55:08Speaker 06

  I took like a pro hormone like 10 years ago, that's all I've done.

• 1:55:11Speaker 01

  Ah, that's, that's nothing.

• 1:55:12Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:55:13Speaker 01

  Now, if you're-

• 1:55:14Jack Selby?

  Wait, wait, hold on, tell me this pro hormone. Whatever you took is what I want to take now.

• 1:55:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, as a natural, it's a, it's a, yeah, it's top, top-tier physique, for sure.

• 1:55:21Speaker 06

  Yeah, I thought you were going to say, uh, natty, so that's surprising.

• 1:55:25Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, what makes this look unnatural?

• 1:55:27Speaker 01

  The amount of muscle he has, being 6'3", how much you weigh? Like 225?

• 1:55:31Speaker 06

  I'm like 205, right?

• 1:55:32Speaker 01

  That's it, wow, incredible. Do you, do you have much leg development? Probably not. A lot of these guys can get, see what I mean? Why guys don't need to train legs? They come in here with jogging pants, they have incredible upper bodies. So he's got the full chest, big arms, um, and he's leaning up his abs, but maybe not as much quads. Like, I weigh 190 and I'm like 8 inches, 9 inches shorter.

• 1:55:54Jack Selby?

  So what do you think he could improve upon the most?

• 1:55:56Speaker 01

  The legs.

• 1:55:57Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:55:58Speaker 01

  But if you were trying to impress more girls, I mean, probably just wider shoulders, like here. Because the, the clavicle width is like set in stone and you can't just widen it. But if you had wider shoulders, the muscles would just sit wider. So your wa, waist would look smaller because he would have that illusion, like Chris Bumstead. His shoulders are like this wide. Or even like, like, uh, um, who's the Mr. Olympia from last year? Derek Lunsford. His shoulders are like this wide and his waist is this small. That's what makes him so good. That's just why they stand out. Or Andrew Jack, like, all these guys, like,

• 1:56:34Speaker 01

  yeah, bodybuilding, it's all about the frame.

• 1:56:36Speaker 06

  It's laterals after this.

• 1:56:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:39Speaker 06

  But best shoulder exercise, what do you need?

• 1:56:41Speaker 01

  For overall development, I would do shoulder press with a machine.

• 1:56:44Speaker 06

  Shoulder press?

• 1:56:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, side laterals is great, but like this is going to build more overall muscles. If I had to pick one, I would do this one over the other. But other than that, side laterals. So like in the last year, there's not many exercises I've done other than this and this. That's basically it. Don't do anything else.

• 1:57:01Speaker 06

  Are you need me any, any longer?

• 1:57:02Jack Selby?

  No, you're free to go, you're also free to hang out, but yeah.

• 1:57:05Graham Stephan?

  He can hang out.

• 1:57:05Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:09Jack Selby?

  Alright, well, thanks, bro. Thanks for making a cameo.

• 1:57:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, good to meet you.

• 1:57:12Jack Selby?

  Thank you.

• 1:57:14Speaker 01

  I thought he was taller than that.

• 1:57:15Jack Selby?

  No, he, he just looks really tall.

• 1:57:17Speaker 01

  Maybe because we're not, we're not as tall.

• 1:57:19Jack Selby?

  We're all sitting also in fairness. We're just sitting down.

• 1:57:22Speaker 01

  How tall was Kevin?

• 1:57:23Jack Selby?

  Kevin's like five, seven, I think?

• 1:57:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:27Jack Selby?

  Five, six?

• 1:57:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, in comparison.

• 1:57:28Jack Selby?

  Five, six, five, seven, maybe?

• 1:57:29Speaker 01

  How is he that tall?

• 1:57:30Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. At six foot three with that much muscle and, and two oh five, I would say his legs are small probably. In relation to how the upper body is built. Cause like six, three, two oh five, I mean, you'd expect a guy to weigh a lot more. Like, what do you weigh?

• 1:57:45Jack Selby?

  One seventy-five.

• 1:57:46Speaker 01

  And you're how tall? Six foot?

• 1:57:47Jack Selby?

  Six foot.

• 1:57:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. And people think that if you're under two hundred pounds, you're basically like, um, what's the?

• 1:57:54Jack Selby?

  Victim weight.

• 1:57:54Speaker 01

  Victim weight, exactly.

• 1:57:55Jack Selby?

  Victim weight?

• 1:57:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:56Jack Selby?

  What's that? I've never heard of this.

• 1:57:57Speaker 01

  Oh, it's like everyone makes fun of anyone that's under two hundred pounds. They're like,

• 1:58:01Jack Selby?

  Really?

• 1:58:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, you have abs, but you, you don't even weigh two hundred pounds. You're literally victim weight. Like you're useless. You're under two hundred pounds. It's a big thing. All the guys think they need to weigh two hundred, even like my friends.

• 1:58:10Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:10Speaker 01

  They'll be like, I can't get under two hundred. I'm like, yeah, but you're fat. Like, of course you can get. You should weigh one seventy. Oh my God, I could never be that small. And I'm like, but you would look great at one seventy.

• 1:58:19Jack Selby?

  What do you think someone that's six feet tall should weigh?

• 1:58:22Speaker 01

  I mean, there's no should.

• 1:58:23Jack Selby?

  Like, like, uh, you know,

• 1:58:24Speaker 01

  A really good weight at, at six foot to be healthy and lean, hundred and eighty pounds would be like awesome. Two hundred pounds, like you're, you're huge. Like six foot, two hundred, you're a monster. Like if you have muscle and you're lean, it's massive. There's a guy down home, he was, uh, his name is Julian. He turned IBB pro. He was in the Olympia. He got thirteenth. I was coaching him for a while. And he was one ninety something and six foot. He's a monster, like just massive. I'm like, that's a hundred and ninety something pounds. He turned pro, one seventy-five. So this is all you need.

• 1:58:53Jack Selby?

  So if you're six foot and two hundred pounds, you're probably fat.

• 1:58:56Speaker 01

  For most guys, yeah. Most guys who are six foot and two hundred overweight, definitely.

• 1:59:01Jack Selby?

  How's the business been doing over the past year? You were transparent with your numbers back then. I'm curious, what do your numbers look like now?

• 1:59:06Speaker 01

  Well, we just got into GNC and so I'm not sure if I'm allowed to talk about the, how much their orders were, but it's like, it's great. It's certainly a big step up in the business. Um, I think that because we're in GNC now, the, the company has a great chance of growing into other companies, like, uh, being worldwide. And so it's a, it's a huge step.

• 1:59:27Jack Selby?

  So how is your income broken down today?

• 1:59:29Speaker 01

  See, these are questions I have no idea how to, like, I don't know the answer to this stuff.

• 1:59:33Jack Selby?

  You don't know how much money you're making?

• 1:59:35Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:59:37Speaker 01

  How do you? Percentage spent here and there, like percentage on advertisements, percentage on,

• 1:59:41Jack Selby?

  Rough, just roughly, just like, hey, we make, uh, you know, twenty percent of our revenue from YouTube, thirty percent from,

• 1:59:48Speaker 01

  My revenue on YouTube is down from like more than a million a year to maybe like eight hundred thousand in a year because I don't have as many views as I once did. Even though right now YouTube has changed the, the way they count views. So my videos are all getting way more views, but I think it's like inflated artificially by perhaps forty percent. Um, I still making pretty good money on Snapchat. It's like twenty thousand plus a month on, on average. Um, I hardly make any sales on cookbooks now. I think that's ship of sale. I'm only selling like maybe a couple hundred thousand in cookbooks a year. Um, the biggest difference from then is I'm, I'm a, I don't even know if I'm allowed to say the percent. I'm a part owner of Algor X, which is selling maybe twenty million dollars a year.

• 2:00:31Speaker 01

  And so that's a huge difference and I advertise Algor X in every single video. Um, the sales have gone up, I think maybe sixfold since I started in the last year. So like every single video I tell people about the value of peptides, where you can get them, the fact that it's, you know, from compounding pharmacies, from doctors.

• 2:00:51Jack Selby?

  Are you making more than you've ever made?

• 2:00:53Speaker 01

  More profit than I've ever made. I was like, if I counted Algor X, yes, but without counting Algor X, no.

• 2:01:00Jack Selby?

  How much have you made from your cookbook in its entirety?

• 2:01:02Speaker 01

  Maybe twelve million?

• 2:01:04Jack Selby?

  Oh crap. That's really good. Are you considering writing another one?

• 2:01:09Speaker 01

  No, because there's, I, I honestly, the amount of money I would have to spend on another one wouldn't be worth it for me and I'm not as passionate about it. I've lost the excitement of like just creating new recipes and doing it. And I wouldn't want to do it just for money because I don't need more money. So if I'm not passionate about something, it's not fun. So with Algor X, it was like a new challenge, something to take, to take on and promote and have fun with it. And seeing the growth and, and being part of a company, there's three of us that are owners of this company. And so I think that's a, a great new thing and I want to see that get into the hundred million plus range. And so that's the, the next big thing. The supplements is now in GNC. Uh, that's huge for me. So I tell people, go to GNC, don't even buy it from my website. I don't even need this. Because there's only so many years that everyone's going to come and watch Coach Greg. Like I need H L T to not just be

• 2:01:53Speaker 01

  Coach Greg, but yet a bigger, like beyond me, like imagine me not making videos and it's still being a, a huge, uh, company, which is science-based. It's throughout the world. Like we have so many products that nobody else has, like the Testosterone from, uh, from Uzbekistan. Now we have Farula Max to boost testosterone. Like we have so many things that no one else has. The innovation in H L T is beyond what anyone else is doing.

• 2:02:17Jack Selby?

  At what point do you think you stopped needing more money? Cause you said, I don't need any more money now.

• 2:02:22Speaker 01

  Probably the day I sold a thousand and four books in a day at a hundred dollars each that day when I made a hundred and four thousand dollars in one day. I didn't really need any, like, I could have retired that day. Cause the money every day after that was like twenty-five thousand, like per day for a year straight. It was ridiculous. So that was the year I made the most money on cookbooks. I made more money in a year from cookbooks than from supplements, although you know, some days where I've sold Turk would be like astronomical, like well, well, well over a hundred thousand in a day. But I don't need any more money. I could retire now for sure, but I just enjoy it. So it's not about money. It's about the fun I have in being good at something.

• 2:03:02Jack Selby?

  What do you think is the right amount of money to have? Or it's not too much. You become a target, but it's enough to kinda, you could do almost anything.

• 2:03:09Speaker 01

  I think after a half a million dollars a year, all the money is just like useless. It's like, it's just to brag about at that point. Like instead of, but like, if you want to get a Bugatti, is it better than having a Lamborghini? Like it's a nicer car, but it's just, it's like, it's the same. It's like, it's not increasing your style of living. Like I don't need to be on a private jet. I don't need to do this or do that. Like it just doesn't excite me. It's not even, it's not even fun for me. So I don't need more money, but it's fun, the challenge of trying to make more. It's just like bike racing. I don't need to be faster to have fun, but the challenge of trying to get faster is the fun part of it.

• 2:03:46Jack Selby?

  Lastly, what we have for you is an influencer tier list where you're going to assign people from S all the way down to F tier. And this is on their general influence as a fitness influencer.

• 2:03:58Speaker 01

  Like positive or negative, like?

• 2:03:59Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:04:00Jack Selby?

  Rank all of these people in terms of their impact on the fitness community and also their physique.

• 2:04:06Speaker 01

  Okay. The trend twins, I'm going to say they are, uh, C tier for influence, mostly because of the name trend and the factor on steroids. And I do believe that if you follow the trend twins, you're more likely to want to use steroids and not as likely to be pushed for fitness and health. Their physiques are A tier. I mean, they're both jacked. They're in incredible shape. So I'm going to put them in C tier overall. This guy,

• 2:04:33Jack Selby?

  Caleb Hammer.

• 2:04:33Speaker 01

  Money guy. He's not a fitness influencer.

• 2:04:36Jack Selby?

  No.

• 2:04:36Speaker 01

  Okay. Well, okay. He's clearly F tier for both. Physique and influence, F tier. I did watch Togi on this channel. It was interesting. Togi for a fitness influencer is going to be, uh, F tier. So not good at all for promoting fitness. I mean, he's openly on steroids. He doesn't really train all that hard. Sometimes he locks in. It's not that great. So for fitness, not very good, but for physique, I'm going to say he's actually S, uh, one below S tier, A tier. Crazy physique, really good shape, lean, wide shoulders, tall. So kind of like your friend here. Uh, really high level physique. Uh, Liver King, F for influence for obvious reasons.

• 2:05:22Speaker 01

  His physique would be A tier. It's pretty high level, like bros shredded. He looks pretty damn good, especially for his age. Um, what do we got here? What's his name? Um,

• 2:05:33Jack Selby?

  Is that Larry Wills?

• 2:05:34Speaker 01

  Yes. I'm just bad with names. Like I know exactly who he is. Um, I'm going to say he's a D tier influencer. Not because of the, uh, stuff he does with the, with girls and that drama, but because he's on steroids. Um, I don't think that he's a positive influence for most people. Like he's more of a, of a shocking freak factor. Like he's boxing or he's doing all these different sports. But I don't think you watch Larry to learn how to do, like how to be fit and healthy and do cardio and whatnot. Um, but his physique is S tier. Um, he's an IBB pro. I mean, we don't get much higher than that. Um, then we have Noel Dizel. I think for beginners, uh, how do I slide this up? Oops.

• 2:06:20Speaker 01

  For beginners, he's S tier. For more advanced people who are more familiar with things, it would be below that. But for a beginner, he has an S tier physique, uh, sorry, he has an S tier channel in terms of promoting fitness and health is definitely what you want out of a person. His information is not at the level of like highly scientific, but definitely a great influence. And I would say he has an S tier physique. He's an IBB pro. Like he's as high as up as you could go. Um, but oh, I'm going to have to lower him down because he's not natty. I can't have him S tier because some people are going to want that physique and because he has a lot of muscle, he's going to be an influential person to have people take steroids. So similar to me.

• 2:07:02Speaker 01

  Um, Will Tennyson. I'm going to put him as a fitness influencer in A tier. Where do we go here? A tier for, uh, um, what do you want to call it? A tier for physique, A tier for being a fitness influencer. And the only reason he's not S tier is because he's not really a purely a fitness influencer. He's more like a, a guy that does a bunch of different things. So I think his channel is more revolving around him trying things out. It's not necessarily like just about fitness. And so one step below S tier for physique, one step below S tier for information. Derek, I'm going to say,

• 2:07:42Speaker 01

  How do I give Derek a rating? Derek doesn't do videos. Um, I'm gonna give him a C tier because he used to be great, but he doesn't do anything anymore. And I'm gonna say his physique, probably B tier. Pretty good physique. He was on steroids. He doesn't, he doesn't do fitness anymore. Essentially, I would say he's retired. David Goggins for fitness and whatnot, I would say he's A tier because he's exceptionally motivating and inspiring. And if you even have 10% of what he has, you're gonna do really good. And at physique, I would also give it A tier. Guy is like single-digit body fat. He's super fit. And so you gotta love David Goggins. The Rock for a fitness influencer.

• 2:08:25Speaker 01

  Ah, for physique, I would say he's A tier. I mean, he's got a lot of muscle. He looks great. Um, for motivation and inspiring, I think he's really good. But the fact that he's lying about being natural and that he's abused steroids for years. I'm gonna put him at C tier because he's gonna encourage a lot of people to do steroids. Sam Sulek. I normally would penalize him more for being a guy that's on steroids, but he doesn't encourage steroids. And he has a really, really good channel. And so I'm gonna put him up at A tier. One step below from being S tier. If he was natural and did the same thing, he would be S tier. And his physique is S tier. It's like, he's an IP pro. I mean, the physique is crazy. Myself, I'm gonna rate my physique as being A tier.

• 2:09:11Speaker 01

  And I'm thinking that I'm an A tier influencer and for the same reasons as like Noel. Because I'm not natural, I can't put myself in the top level because some people are gonna see my physique, know that I've, I used steroids in the past, I'm on HRT and are gonna be tempted to do that. Sebum for uh, fitness information and for uh, learning how to do bodybuilding and whatnot. I'm gonna put him as a B tier. I don't think there's as much excitement. I think that at this point, he's just like running around and, he's just not doing fitness the way he used to. Um, he still has a decent channel, but I, I don't find it terribly exciting. It's not as engaging. I don't think that a lot of young people would go and watch Sebum right now.

• 2:09:53Speaker 01

  And now that he's retired, I think that he's gonna get less views on his channel. But the mental aspect is really high level. I like that the most about Chris. Like, so when I watch videos from Chris, I like the mental aspect of things, but I don't think most people are at a level where they're advanced enough and they're training to see it the way that Chris does. I think you, Chris, his information for me is for like guys who are like older, like 30 plus. But most of his fans are probably younger. Um, and his physique is S tier plus, it's like off the charts. Jeff Nippard for information and for physique, I also think he's A tier. Even though I've had beef with him in the past, I think a lot of his information is scientific. But I think that he holds on to um, studies a bit too much and he

• 2:10:37Speaker 01

  omits how he really feels about something just to show the science. And so I don't think he's 100% honest in some of the things that he presents, but overall, A tier for most people. Amazing editing on videos, great quality videos and definitely, you know, close to the top. Mike Izzertel for physique, I would say he's got a D tier physique. Um, it's because of the stomach, like unfortunately. It, it's like, I don't think that anyone aspires to have his physique. But it's not, it's not F, he's not fat. He's still, he's still got something. But I think for abusing steroids, it's not very good. And I think for overall as a channel, I would give him a B tier. Because although he promotes a lot of steroids and things like that, he does have a lot of good information.

• 2:11:22Speaker 01

  And I think he's very smart and has a lot of good information, quality information that a lot of people can learn from. Despite all the, I'll call them gay jokes and crazy jokes. I still think that he has a good channel that if he wanted to, it could be S tier. But he just lowers it for some reason. Uh, Jesse James West has an A tier physique. Very good, almost S tier. And for a fitness channel, I'd say it's B. Um, it's not all about fitness. Sometimes it's about fitness. Um, I think there's a, it's catered more to a younger audience, like let's go, but not a lot of like actual take-home information that you could learn from. Uh, Lean, is this Lean Beef Patty?

• 2:12:05Speaker 01

  Lean Beef Patty, I would say she has uh, an S tier physique. Like top level physique and an A tier channel. I think for women, more so than men, they could learn a lot from her. She battled um, eating disorders and stuff in the past and still to this day, I do believe. And she shares a lot about it. She's very open about these things. And I think that she's vulnerable in her videos. And so I think she has a great channel that people can watch. Uh, this is, oh geez, I would not know his name.

• 2:12:37Speaker 01

  Do Better, what's his name? You need to do better. Joey Swole. Joey Swole is great, but he's one-dimensional. He's only got one thing. And so I'm gonna put him in C tier because once you've seen one Joey Swole video, you've seen all of them. So he could do way better, but I mean, if I were Joey, I'd be doing the same thing. Like, I don't blame him. He's viral for calling out people in the gym and, but it's one thing that you can learn from. And he's absolutely not natural. And so if you watch Joey, I think you'd be tempted to use steroids. That isn't good. His physique, I think is S tier. Like it's ridiculous that every day he's single-digit body fat, so much muscle, he looks so good.

• 2:13:18Speaker 01

  But I think that it's uh, it's a scary thing that if you've watched Joey Swole all the time, that you might wanna look like him. Although his message is amazing, like for what he says to, to not make fun of people in the gym and whatnot. Now, we have Mike O'Hern, who has an S tier physique for sure. Ridiculous physique. He's 57. I met him for the first time today in my lifetime. We chatted for 30 minutes, I was talking to his kid, we were talking. His channel, if you can get over the fact that he's a fake natty. Cause we know he's not natural and he's lied about that for years. He does have a lot of good information, but he also has a lot of bad information. It's like, he's on the fence. I'm gonna give him a C tier because for older people, I think he's great. I think his information is from like the 70s and 80s mostly.

• 2:14:02Speaker 01

  I don't think he's learned a lot of the newest information. But he's very inspirational and motivational and just the fact that he's been able to train as hard as he can. For as consistent as he's said, he's kind of like a David Goggins. But some of the information, it's like counterintuitive, it's like against what it should be. And so I can only put him as high as a C. I wish I could put him higher, but if he came out and said I'm a fake natty, I would have to then put him up to A. But we gotta keep him there. Um, Alex Ubank has an S tier physique. It's a top level physique. I can't put him at the highest levels because he is on HRT and he is on steroids a bit too high. Um, I think he talks a lot about the mind, the mental aspects. I'm gonna put him in the B uh, status. I think that he has a lot of good information.

• 2:14:47Speaker 01

  He tries really hard. He's a Christian guy. He wants to help. He wants to do good. He didn't take a gambling sponsorship. He could be making half a million dollars, extra a million dollars a year if he promoted gambling, which he didn't do. You gotta give him respect for that. And he is at least honest about taking HRT and whatnot. Um, so I'll give him a B tier. I, I think that he's close to an A tier for information, but I'm just gonna give him a B based on what I see here.

• 2:15:13Jack Selby?

  And so why no S tier? And if someone had to be S tier, who would it be?

• 2:15:18Speaker 01

  I think that if Noel Deisel were natural, S tier. Sam Sulek, natural, S tier. Myself, natural, S tier.

• 2:15:25Jack Selby?

  Outside of that, do we have an S tier fitness creator?

• 2:15:28Speaker 01

  S tier fitness influencer.

• 2:15:32Speaker 01

  I can't think of any, we're missing, who are we missing here? I, I, I'm not somebody that could come up with names off the spot. Like if I had to say, who would I recommend to follow over all these guys? I mean, I don't think there is one. Maybe in a few years from now, somebody watching this video will come out and be that person. Maybe it's somebody, just Tristan Lee's not even close. I don't think Tristan Lee is natural and he's 5% body fat all the time. I would have him as a B tier. Tristan Lee is not close to S tier. So maybe somebody will come out of nowhere and be that S tier influencer. There's probably women who are S tier influencers who I don't follow as much, but are S tier for women. They're probably natural, motivational, and they do all the things. They promote both cardio and weights and a healthy diet. I like, I just, I don't follow women content as much, but I bet there are some out there.

• 2:16:17Jack Selby?

  Cool, love it. Well, Greg, thank you so much for coming on the Iced Coffee Hour.

• 2:16:21Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me.

• 2:16:21Jack Selby?

  Thank you, man. It's always a blast. Also love the watch, that thing is sick.

• 2:16:25Speaker 01

  That's what I said earlier, I love it.

• 2:16:27Jack Selby?

  Yeah, I love it. Those bands are great because I actually don't pinch the arm hair so much.

• 2:16:31Speaker 01

  I need it. I actually brought one or um, like my wrist is a little bit big. It's a little bit tight, you can see.

• 2:16:37Jack Selby?

  You know what's so funny? In my car.

• 2:16:39Speaker 01

  To try to, to add a link.

• 2:16:41Jack Selby?

  To add a link? You mean remove a link?

• 2:16:43Speaker 01

  No, add. This is the maximum amount of like the links. And so I have an extra two links.

• 2:16:48Jack Selby?

  I, I thought it was a little loose on you.

• 2:16:50Speaker 01

  Oh man, it's, it's like.

• 2:16:52Jack Selby?

  It needs, it needs, you need a link taken out.

• 2:16:55Speaker 01

  No, I need another link added so that it's looser. My, my two Rolexes are way looser. I can put my hand underneath, like when I do this, I can't.

• 2:17:04Jack Selby?

  Probably too loose, then it's fine as it is.

• 2:17:06Speaker 01

  You like a tight watch.

• 2:17:07Jack Selby?

  Yeah, I mean, this is what I do. It's just, it's snug, it snugly fits and.

• 2:17:11Speaker 01

  Oh, yours is looser than mine. So I can't like, it'll, it'll like during the day, it'll like dig into my hand and I literally have to loosen it.

• 2:17:19Jack Selby?

  Oh, interesting.

• 2:17:19Speaker 01

  Like I get the marks on the side, like in the, in the cab on the way over, I, I couldn't wear it. It was too tight.

• 2:17:24Jack Selby?

  Wow.

• 2:17:25Speaker 01

  So I would like it like a, not quite a half a centimeter, but maybe, maybe up there, a bit, a bit looser for me.

• 2:17:31Jack Selby?

  Okay, interesting. Well, well, you guys heard it here. Thank you so much for coming on the channel.

• 2:17:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, and for all the.

• 2:17:37Jack Selby?

  For star guesting.

• 2:17:38Speaker 01

  Thank you. And for all the channel members out there, really appreciate it. If you wanna see our next episode, it's already live for the channel members. So here's a preview of it. Really hope you enjoy. Thank you so much. All your information's down below in the description and until next time.

• 2:17:57Speaker 02

  Emotions felt really strong, we could instantly transfer into a ton of strength.

• 2:18:02Jack Selby?

  How would someone cross from not loving the gym to actually enjoying the time spent in the gym?

• 2:18:06Speaker 02

  As you come to the gym and your body changes, you look in the mirror like, oh my God, I'm like becoming a superhero.

• 2:18:10Speaker 01

  Should anyone work out seven days a week?

• 2:18:13Speaker 02

  Is it the best idea in the world? No, I would not say it is. My IQ is above 160. We don't know how high, because they don't do standardized IQ tests above that.

• 2:18:20Jack Selby?

  How do you know that to be true?

• 2:18:21Speaker 02

  The Ravens Advanced Progressive Matrix's IQ test, which is a maximum of 160, I got every single problem correct.

• 2:18:27Jack Selby?

  What percent of their max potential could they achieve by working out twice a week?

• 2:18:33Speaker 01

  Mr. Mike, he knows that what he's doing to his body is stupid.

• 2:18:38Speaker 02

  If I fall off tomorrow, Greg will never make another video about me again.

• 2:18:42Speaker 01

  Can you lift heavier if you're screaming?

• 2:19:01Speaker 06

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