Diane von Furstenberg: How to Become the Woman You Want to Be

Diane von Furstenberg created the iconic wrap dress in her twenties and built her namesake company DVF into one of the most recognizable fashion brands in the world. More than fifty years later, as she approaches 80, she's entering a new chapter — with a lifetime of lessons to share. In this episode of Aspire, Emma sits down with her longtime friend and idol for a deeply personal conversation about self-belief, independence, motherhood, aging and becoming the woman you want to be. Diane opens up about the choices she made as a working mother, why guilt and fear are not options, the mistakes she's made along the way, and what it takes to like the person you've become. Diane shares: How to build the kind of self-belief that carries you through every stage of lifeWhy the most important relationship you'll ever have is the one you have with yourselfHow to stop comparing yourself to other people and own who you areWhy guilt and fear should never drive your decisionsWhat motherhood taught her about raising independent children without losing yourselfWhy independence has always mattered more to her than moneyHow to learn from mistakes without letting them define youWhy kindness is a currency — and how it compounds over timeWhat getting older has taught her about confidence, clarity and becoming more yourself

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Emma Grede?

  Diane von Furstenberg is a fashion icon, known for building one of the most legendary fashion brands in the world. No one has more self-belief than Diane, and today, she shares how to keep choosing the woman you want to be through every season of your life.

• 0:32Emma Grede?

  Diane von Furstenberg, welcome to Aspire. I am so happy to have you here today, Diane, because from the beginning, and in fact, I'm going to tell the story because from the inception of me thinking about having a podcast, you were there. And when I think about you, I think that you are one of the most iconic women in the world.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 0:53Emma Grede?

  It's true. I know you're going to be very, you're going to correct so many things that I say, but to me, you're one of the most iconic...

• 1:00Speaker 01

  No, no, no, I have to show some humility.

• 1:02Emma Grede?

  You can start there. To me, you're one of the most iconic women in the world, and for so many women, you're that. You've built a brand that has defined multiple decades, and at 79 years of age, you are still building. But what I actually want to talk to you about today is how you've lived, the lessons in love and in money and in building a business, the experiences that have made you who you are, and the mistakes that you never shy away from talking about. I just don't think anyone has quite lived a life like yours. And my audience is full of ambitious people who can learn so much from you.

• 1:36Speaker 01

  Okay, big advice, real advice. In three months, I'm going to be 80 years old. Eight-oh. Eight-oh. So I am definitely in the winter of my life. I hope I'm going to have a long winter, but it is winter for sure. First of all, I want to tell everyone, age, I mean, I don't know what is this thing that people are afraid of age. Age means you have lived. Lived. So nobody can take away what you have lived, right? So, advice number one for life: don't lie.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  The one thing I am so, so, so happy is that I have never lied. Therefore, no one can blackmail me. Not lying means owning it, you know? And that means being in charge, which is what I wanted to be. Now, age is, every year is knowledge, experience, and wisdom. Layers and layers of experiences, layers of knowledge, layers of wisdom. And so, the more layers, the more comfortable the bed is.

• 2:58Emma Grede?

  It's true. One of the things I find remarkable is that through everything that you have lived through, you still seem so genuinely excited about life. And I wonder what actually keeps you motivated?

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Listen, my mother was a prisoner of war. She was actually in the death camp, but because she did forced labor, she didn't die. She was 22 years old, and when she came back, she weighed 49 pounds. So she wasn't supposed to have survived, but she did. And she, her parents couldn't believe she came back, so my mother fed her like a little bird, you know? Within six months, she was normal. Her fiancé came back from Switzerland. They met, they get married, and the doctors say, no matter what, you have to wait three years of a child because you will die and your child will not be normal.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  13 months later, I was born. And in a sense, I was not normal. So my mother used to say, and I have a little thing that she wrote to me. She said, "God saved me so that I can give you life. By giving you life, you gave me mine back. You are my torch of freedom." So I was born with a torch of freedom in my hand, which sometimes could be a little heavy for a little girl, but I'm happy I did that. So my biggest achievement, the most audacious thing I ever did, was being born. So to honor life, that is the most important thing.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  That is what I have taught my children, my grandchildren. Above everything, you honor life.

• 4:45Emma Grede?

  I don't think I've ever met anyone with more self-belief than you have.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Self-belief?

• 4:51Emma Grede?

  Self-belief, maybe me, somebody that has...

• 4:54Speaker 01

  That's a compliment from her.

• 4:56Emma Grede?

  Maybe me. Well, when I think about self-belief, somebody that really knows who they are and really lives in it. And I just wonder where that comes from?

• 5:05Speaker 01

  Okay. When I was a little girl, my mother had a big mirror in her bedroom, a big vanity. And I used to stare at it. Not that I liked what I looked like, because I looked very different than any other little girl in Belgium. They all had, you know, blonde hair, straight hair, and I had little curly hair. People thought I was a little boy. But if I moved, the mirror moved. If I did this, she did the same thing. And I realized, oh, I have control of me.

• 5:40Emma Grede?

  Oh, that's a big realization. How old were you then?

• 5:44Speaker 01

  I don't know, maybe five? And still, to this day, when I go to the bathroom in the middle of the night and I pass by the mirror, I either, you know, say hello, I wink at myself. I mean, I have a complicity with myself, and I count on myself. It's really counting on myself. It's not that I'm always secure. Many, many, many days, I wake up and feel like a total loser. You know, you always do that. But then I get up and I go on. But my relationship with myself, you know, your relationship, the most important relationship in life is the one you have with yourself. Once you have that,

• 6:29Speaker 01

  every other relationship is a plus, a luxury, but not a must.

• 6:35Emma Grede?

  It's maybe one of the best things that you ever said. I quote you all the time on that. I'm like, my friend Diane says... But I do want to just stop for a minute there because it's such an important thing to have a relationship with yourself.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:49Emma Grede?

  But so many people find that so difficult, and especially now in the culture that we live in. There's so much distractions. We're all looking at everyone else.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Don't compare yourself with anyone. I never. I remember years ago, I saw a movie with Marisa, my friend, and it was somebody that made wishes. And all the wishes happened, but they hadn't thought about something. So don't ever envy anyone, don't ever... And also, remember, you know, you go in a room and you look at the woman across the room, and she's so cool and she's so put together. But for her, you are the woman across the room.

• 7:30Emma Grede?

  It's absolutely true. I know, and I read somewhere that you said your mother raised you to believe that fear was not an option. But what did that actually look like for you growing up?

• 7:41Speaker 01

  Oh, it's very simple. If I would tell my mother I was afraid of the dark, she would take me, put me in a closet. Today, she could go to jail for that. But as a result, I'm not allowed to have fear. And I don't. I mean, not fear, I mean, I don't want things to happen. I'm cautious. But even to my children, I don't say, "Be careful." I used to say, "If you do that, what happens?" You know, the consequence. The most important things you can give your children is independence. Love and independence.

• 8:18Emma Grede?

  I really agree with you on that. But what do you say to women?

• 8:21Speaker 01

  She has the best children.

• 8:22Emma Grede?

  They're great, and they love you. My daughter still walks around with those sunglasses you gave her and the In Charge necklace.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  You have cute, very cute children.

• 8:30Emma Grede?

  They're very cute. But you have a way with people in general, but kids tend to really gravitate to you. Yeah, yeah, I mean, they all sit around.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  You know why? Because I treat them as grown up.

• 8:40Emma Grede?

  There's that, that's the truth. You have none of that baby talk.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 8:43Emma Grede?

  No, you're like, what do you want?

• 8:44Speaker 01

  When I was a little girl, the people who patronized me, I hated them.

• 8:48Emma Grede?

  It's very attractive to a kid to be spoke to like an adult.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  But that's why you have to make them independent.

• 8:55Emma Grede?

  No, you're right about that. But I'm interested to know what you say to women because, again, you've done so many things that you have, that should have brought fear, right? Starting your own business and coming back from, you know, bankruptcy and starting over again. What do you say to women that are full of fear? Because it's so crippling for so many.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  Listen, you live your life day after day, minute after minute, right? I did not know what I wanted to do, but I knew the kind of woman I wanted to be. When you start life, there are all these doors in front of you. My door, the door I ended up being my door, was the least glamorous of all. I mean, professionally. Because personally, I did marry a prince. So it's hard to be more glamorous than that. But you open, you have to be curious, you have to look, you have to invent. First of all, all we are is energy. That's it. All we are is energy. Oh, I'm going to say something. This, I write my diary, and I know you do too.

• 10:04Speaker 01

  I write my diary, I've read my diary all my life. Because I'm born on New Year's Eve, I have a new book on January 1st, and I picked three words for the year. This year, I picked, it really, it was really very helpful. Wisdom, because now I have wisdom. Imagination, because you have to imagine. You know, you have to take the color pencil. You have to be creative. You know, imagine. But the most important thing is magic. Magic. But in order to see magic or capture magic, you have to make space. Meaning, you have to be on your own, you have to make space.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  But also, you have to talk to someone. I walked in here, I talked to somebody, and be intimate very early on because you may give something to that person, but they may give something to you. So you have to be very open.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  But of course, the thing that, you know, my big thing was being in charge, being a woman in charge, being the woman you wanted to be. I promoted that all my life, but now it's kindness. Now, my thing is kindness is a currency. And like money, it compounds. To be kind is not being stupid, is not being weak. It's a tool, it's a muscle, it's almost a trick.

• 11:37Emma Grede?

  I love that you say that like that, Diane, because it's one of the truest things that was ever said, that kindness compounds. If you're someone that believes in karma, if you're just somebody that has lived for any amount of time, you know all the good things that you do come back around to you.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  I know, and never, I mean, if you told me that when I was twenty, that I would end up promoting kindness and talking, and right now I'm writing a book on kindness, I would say, what? You know, but it's incredible. And, you know, if you have a relationship with yourself and you do, for example, every morning, I mean, this is my advice to you, to anyone. Every morning, try to make a miracle by introducing one person to a person who can change their life or be instrumental in their life that they wouldn't have known without you. You don't need to speak, you don't need to disturb anyone. It just has to be thoughtful and write a good email or a good text. And you make miracles.

• 12:36Emma Grede?

  Why, after all of these years, has kindness been the thing that you've landed on?

• 12:42Speaker 01

  I don't know, I don't know, but it's a wonderful. And so, you know, I make it provocative because I make everything provocative. Because that's how you get people's attention.

• 12:51Emma Grede?

  Absolutely. Is kindness an easy thing to promote in the current culture?

• 12:55Speaker 01

  I don't know, I just, I just go on. I mean, I got a prize, they gave me an award in Davos, right? Davos is absolutely not my crowd, they're all men and they're all financed. You know, they're all interested in money. And I go and I thank my, thank them for my award. And I said that, by the way, since you're so powerful, which you should always flatter people if you want to get their attention. Since you are all so powerful, I want to share something with you that I do every day and da, da, da, da, da. And, you know, I stayed five days. A dozen men must have come to me, as I did it today.

• 13:32Emma Grede?

  That's incredible. Before we go on, I think it's important that you tell your origin story of the business and the brand. So much of what has happened to you and the lessons that you've had kind of come from this unbelievable life that you've made for yourself. So will you talk just a little bit? Because the wrap dress was so unbelievably successful that in a way it almost nearly sort of destroyed the business. And I want you to give some thoughts around what other founders can learn from your journey.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  Okay, I was doing an internship, I mean, barely an internship, in a printing plant in Como. Como, Italy, the Silk Road, that's where they weave, okay. And this man was doing scarves, he was printing scarves for Valentino, Ferragamo, all these big brands. I walked in there and I learned everything about how you print. Artists and illustrators would come and sell their drawing to make scarves. And the timing has a lot to do with it. At the time, he was very successful, so he needed more room.

• 14:43Emma Grede?

  What year was this roughly?

• 14:44Speaker 01

  Oh, sixty nine.

• 14:45Emma Grede?

  Okay.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  So there was a factory next door where they made stockings. So none of you know that before we had pantyhose, women wore stockings. So the pantyhose was born, it was a revolution. So nobody made stocking. So that factory went bankrupt. So he bought the factory, this man I was working with. He bought it for the walls, right? So when we get there, there are all these machines. He said, I hate to throw this machine, what could we do with this machine? They were knitting machines, right? They were knitting silk to make a stocking. We compete the legs here. Have you ever seen two better pair of legs?

• 15:30Emma Grede?

  Think you're winning. I actually really think you're winning, which is embarrassing for me.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  I'm not winning, I'm not winning. Anyway, he said, we should try with thicker yarn. Anyway, I'm gonna make it short. But basically, he invented jersey. Oh, this fabric is nice, what could we do with this? We could have little polo shirts. We could print on that and make little polo shirts. So that's how it began. To sew this fabric, you need very thin needles. And anyway, one thing next to the, to the next, I happened to be there. So from a little top, I thought, oh, wait, let's make a little polo dress, make a little shirt dress. And the fabric is very tight, it's jersey, so it molds your body. Oh, what, you know what I really like?

• 16:17Speaker 01

  Is what the ballerinas wear over their tutu when they're in the wrap. So let's do a little wrap top. So it was a wrap top with a matching skirt, with a matching pants, and then became a wrap dress. In the meantime, I get engaged, pregnant and married, in that order.

• 16:35Emma Grede?

  To the prince.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  To the prince.

• 16:37Emma Grede?

  And this is one of the things I find most fascinating about you because you didn't need to do anything at this point. You'd married the prince, most people would go off to the castle and live happy ever after.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  Oh, no, no, no, but because I was pregnant when I got married, it was really important that, even more important, that I showed independence. Oh my God, people are gonna think that I did it on purpose, so I had to be independent, right?

• 17:01Emma Grede?

  You needed yours.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  I needed my own. And, and Egon was very, he really wanted me to be independent. And so I went to this man I was working with and I said, listen, I am pregnant, I am getting married and I'm moving to America, but I want to be independent, can I make samples? I had already begun to, that I can sell in America. And that's how it started. And I had one child and then thirteen months later, another child. I was always pregnant, going back and forth to the factory, working out of my dining room. You know, I got married in sixty nine, I started, I moved to New York nineteen seventy. I started seventy two, my first dresses and so on.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  By seventy three, seventy four, I was making twenty five thousand dresses a week.

• 17:49Emma Grede?

  Absolutely insane.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  And the same one. The same dress.

• 17:55Emma Grede?

  Which is so crazy.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  Blue and white, red and white, green and white. This print, that print.

• 18:00Emma Grede?

  And what's crazy is like some of those prints are still in circulation. Because when I was going through, it's crazy, and the dress.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  There is no dress in the world that people are still wearing and buying fifty two years later.

• 18:14Emma Grede?

  It's completely extraordinary.

• 18:21Emma Grede?

  One thing I think people misunderstand about entrepreneurship is that the idea is rarely the hardest part. The hard part is building the infrastructure that allows that idea to reach people, to grow and to operate like a real business. Twenty years ago, that meant a physical location, serious upfront capital and a lot of expertise you probably didn't have. Today, Shopify is one of the biggest reasons that that's changed. It's the commerce platform we use at Good American. It allows us to own our storefront, our customer relationships and our data while still being discovered wherever people are already shopping, from social platforms to the shop app and even ChatGPT. That matters when you're launching new products and collections at the pace we do. Shopify keeps the commerce side moving so I can stay focused on the product, the brand

• 19:05Emma Grede?

  and what our customer actually wants next. If you're ready to build your idea, head to Shopify.com/aspire.

• 19:18Emma Grede?

  It's interesting because you also became so famous.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  It was a phenomenon. First of all, Egon already, when he was in New York as a young bachelor, handsome and prince, you know.

• 19:32Emma Grede?

  It's a hot story.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  All the girls wanted him and so he was. And then, of course, we got married, oh, da, da, da. We were young, we were twenty two. But then, when it started to kick, I said, oh my God, this looks good. So I wanted to be the division of a bigger company, right? Because I was working in a one man show. So I went to see three Seventh Avenue company and hoping that they would take me as one of their divisions.

• 20:01Emma Grede?

  Because it had become too much for you to manage?

• 20:04Speaker 01

  It was, it was, it was, no, that's before we got to twenty five thousand a week, right? When I was in my hotel room, twice a year showing, I didn't have a showroom. I was very shy, I was afraid of Seventh Avenue, I was afraid of all of that. So I was doing everything out of my dining room. Twice a year, I would take a room in a hotel where there were other people were showing. And then the merchandise, what was blue was, came red, what, the sizes were wrong. But no matter what, everything sold. So I knew I had a product. So I went, I wanted to meet.

• 20:39Emma Grede?

  Like a business partner?

• 20:40Speaker 01

  A business partner.

• 20:41Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  So I saw three companies. The first two, they say, no, no, this can't be volume. The third one was a little nice, it was a little young. He said, you know, you don't need anyone. All you need is a showroom and a salesman.

• 20:59Emma Grede?

  Sales and distribution.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I was so worried. I, I said, I don't know any show, any salesman. He said, come back next week. So I came back next week and introduced me to this man who was thirty nine years old.

• 21:14Emma Grede?

  And at this point, how old are you?

• 21:16Speaker 01

  Twenty four, four, five.

• 21:18Emma Grede?

  You're still so young at this point.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  Thirty nine seemed very old to me. And so I explained to him, ba, ba, ba. And I said, but, you know, I don't know if I can afford you. What do you need? And he said, if you give me three hundred dollars a week and twenty five percent of the company, I come.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  So I said, well, three hundred dollars a week I can do. And twenty five percent of nothing is nothing. I could do that too. So he came in. He was a really good salesman. We took a showroom on Seventh Avenue. He knew everybody and people came and they bought. And he would ship me everywhere to do personal appearances. So I would take very early plane in the morning because so I could be with my children the night before. And I would go to Pittsburgh, Santa Fe, Oklahoma, Los Angeles, Las Vegas. You know, San Francisco, I mean, you know, Buffalo.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  And I mean, that's how I learned geography of this country.

• 22:25Emma Grede?

  That's a similarity in us.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  And I would arrive in the morning and at the time retail was very different. There must have been two thousand great department, even more. Department stores everywhere and really good department stores. And they were all owned by the owner, by the founder's family. And they were very much part of the community. They would call their clients patrons.

• 22:53Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  And they would do event and this and that. So the mister so and so would come and pick me up at the airport. Bring me first to do the good morning Oklahoma or good morning, whatever. I would do the television show, you know. And I would do the television show and then talk about, you know. And then I would go to the store and they had all their salespeople from the entire store. Come upstairs and I would show the clothes and da, da, da. And then I would do the same thing for the customer between twelve and three P M. And I learned everything there.

• 23:33Emma Grede?

  Of course you did.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  In the fitting rooms, wrapping things, da, da, da. That's how I learned everything. And women were just, you know, they, I don't know. And of course I was cute and I was young and I was a princess and I had curly hair and, you know, and fishnet stocking, which by the way, I'm wearing today.

• 23:54Emma Grede?

  You've still got all those things, Diane.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  And it was a time, women's liberation and women felt, you know.

• 24:00Emma Grede?

  I mean, it's interesting when you say that because it was so long ago. And even as I think about my own journey, I came to America and I would have to go and do the morning shows. Thirty four. I've been here for nearly ten years. I was thirty four when I came here and I would have to do the same thing. And I literally, I knew New York and L A. I would look on my children's like placemats that they eat on in the morning.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  And what were you selling?

• 24:22Emma Grede?

  Okay, I'm going good American jeans. And I would go to Austin and I'd do good morning Austin or whatever, some tiny T V station, same size as this.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 24:31Emma Grede?

  And then I'd go to Nordstrom and I'd speak to every sales assistant. I'd show them my wares. I'd have a suitcase. One person with me. So not that much has changed. In hindsight, as you look back, I'm interested in that first deal.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  I don't know what first year was.

• 24:44Emma Grede?

  Well, not, not first year, the first deal. So when you actually meet this Seventh Avenue guy, the guy that's doing sales and distribution. He asked you for three hundred a week and he asked you for twenty five percent of your company. Looking back, was that the right decision? Was that a good decision?

• 24:59Speaker 01

  Oh, totally, totally. I mean, but then we got so successful. That he became one day, I mean, he thought he would own the world.

• 25:08Emma Grede?

  Was it a good partnership?

• 25:09Speaker 01

  It was a great partnership, but then he, he started to believe in our own bullshit. And one day he came and he said, I think I want to become president of the United States.

• 25:22Emma Grede?

  Okay.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  And I said, all right, sure. But then I called my lawyer. I said, you know, I think that, so, but I bought him out and I stayed in very good term. One of my specialties, I stay in good term with everybody.

• 25:38Emma Grede?

  It's a really good lesson.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  And it's, yes.

• 25:40Emma Grede?

  The world is small. The fashion industry is small. The world is small.

• 25:43Speaker 01

  It's men or business or people you have to separate with. You know, be honest and stay in good term.

• 25:51Emma Grede?

  You know, I love a wrap dress. I wear them all the time. I have like a vintage collection of them. Olivia from my office is wearing her mom Karen's wrap dress. Why do you think it continues to resonate with every generation?

• 26:02Speaker 01

  The other day I was in Venice. We were having the D V F awards. And all the five awardees, remarkable women, age different, race different and everything. And actually, by accident, they were all wearing wraps. And that's when I understood for the first time that it's about it. Okay, it's about being in Jersey at the top and it.

• 26:32Emma Grede?

  The snatch.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  It's about the attitude.

• 26:34Emma Grede?

  It's so interesting to me that something can last for this long. This season of your life, you've decided that you want to re-energize the company. Is that about the fact that it carries your name or is there something in you that wants the business?

• 26:51Speaker 01

  No, I, I, I want to put, right now it's inventory time, right? Everything is inventory. The brand, my voice. Over the years, I spoke a lot. I have done what we're doing now since I am twenty two. If you go on YouTube, you can watch me saying the same thing over and over. At twenty five, thirty five, forty five, fifty five, seventy five. And, you know, it's a little, so actually, I think that for whatever reason. What I said has inspired a lot of women.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  So it would be nice to be able to encapsulate that in a way so it doesn't go to waste. You know, what is legacy? I mean, it's a huge, big pretentious word. But it is the people you touch, the children you have and your body of work.

• 27:53Emma Grede?

  I want to talk to you about something that I talk about a lot on this show and it's money. And I wonder if your relationship with money has changed over the years and how you ever thought about your brand. Your independence and actually money.

• 28:09Speaker 01

  I don't really think very much about money at all. I wanted to be independent, which means being able to pay my bills, buy a house. You know, security like that, but money per se. And then I, I hate to look at numbers. I don't look at numbers. I'm a bad. As far as that, I'm not a good executive. Why? Why are you saying?

• 28:35Emma Grede?

  I'm holding on to my seat because all I want everyone to do is look at the numbers.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, I'm sorry.

• 28:40Emma Grede?

  You're not good at it.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  I'm sorry. I, I don't belong in this show then.

• 28:45Emma Grede?

  Well, as long as you know, somebody else has to look after them, then you still am.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  But maybe that, that may be my fault is that I don't look at numbers.

• 28:54Emma Grede?

  Do you consider it a weakness or is it just something that you don't? Like, is there a fear associated with looking at the numbers or is it like, I'm not good at this?

• 29:01Speaker 01

  Fear is not. I just don't, I, I, I mean, I like to be able to afford what I would like to afford. I am absolutely not interested in piling money. I am a very bad person to talk about money. I mean, I'm not completely idiotic. I mean.

• 29:19Emma Grede?

  Well, clearly not. And also, you know, with respect, you have a lot of money. So maybe you've not had to think about it in that way.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  No, I, I mean, you, you know, yeah, I don't want, I don't want not to be respectful. But as long as I can make it happen.

• 29:36Emma Grede?

  Yeah. Well, I think that you spoke a lot about independence and I do think that independence has been. Your association with money is, is linked to your independence and that's how you've thought about it through your whole life.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  I always find ways to make money.

• 29:50Emma Grede?

  It's a great way to think about things. Because you've been quite vocal about mistakes that you've made over the years. Is there any mistake that actually cost you the most?

• 30:00Speaker 01

  Yes, but you make, you learn from your mistake. You learn more from your mistake than not mistake. And you really only regret the things you don't do. Listen, if you don't lie, you did what you did thinking it was right. I don't really look at the negative things like that.

• 30:21Emma Grede?

  That's a superpower, don't you think?

• 30:22Speaker 01

  I don't know. I mean, that's just the way I am.

• 30:25Emma Grede?

  Well, it can be crippling. I feel like we talk so much about mindset. And you have such an unbelievably strong mindset, like you're very clear.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  But it takes so long. I mean, now I happen to be, have a lot of clarity. Because I swam seventy five hours over the summer. And when I swim, I meditate and that. So, you know, you have to spend time with yourself. In order to find clarity.

• 30:55Emma Grede?

  I just want to stop you for a second because when, even when you say that, people will think, oh, my God, you know, she's, she's making an exaggeration. No, you actually swam seventy five hours every single summer in the ocean for hours a day. In a full wet suit, swimming and swimming and swimming. And this is part of your meditation?

• 31:15Speaker 01

  No, it's, I like to swim, first of all, because you're alone. And you're alone in, in the, in the sea. And I'm lucky because I go on, on boats. So I swim, you know, when there's no one and I can swim for a long time. I don't swim like an Olympic thing. I swim like an old lady, but I can swim. I swim somewhere between an hour and a half and two hours every day.

• 31:40Emma Grede?

  For how long have you done that?

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Oh, I don't know, but years now.

• 31:43Emma Grede?

  Do you think that that is like an essential part of your?

• 31:47Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, but I, I, I do the same walking, you know. Thirty one years ago I had a cancer and I met Deepak Chopra. He taught me how to meditate and he, and then he gave me words, sutras, and I use those. And I have my own little way of doing, because it's very hard to swim for so long. Unless you have a, a night in area. So I have words and then they take me somewhere for five minutes. So, and then, I don't know. I mean, listen.

• 32:20Emma Grede?

  It's amazing.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  The most important thing is the relationship with yourself. So I have all kinds of tricks and all kinds of whatever.

• 32:27Emma Grede?

  But I love the tricks. I feel like that's what we want to know. Like, I always think like in the morning when I make my, I have like a protein coffee. But I take it very seriously, like the cup that I use and the temperature of the water and the way that I mix it.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  You don't take seriously.

• 32:42Emma Grede?

  I'm a serious girl.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 32:44Emma Grede?

  You know, but to me, it's like my moment alone, you know?

• 32:47Speaker 01

  You pay attention, the ceremony of life. You pay attention to every single thing you do. Because you've taken yourself in charge.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  And you own it, you know, and you have a sexy, hot husband and he's smart and he's good and he's wealthy and you have healthy, wonderful children and, and, you know, and you wanted to do what you're doing now and you're making it happen.

• 33:13Emma Grede?

  Do you remember when we were talking about this, Diane? Yeah, it was, I think you were the first person that I spoke to about it and you gave me the necklace when we were in your home. I have the necklace with diamonds, my daughter has one as well. And, and I thought about that like for so long.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  Tell them what it says.

• 33:30Emma Grede?

  It says in charge, which is your, you have it on?

• 33:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:34Emma Grede?

  A, it was such a beautiful thing for you to give me, but we should talk a little bit about what in charge means to you.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  To be in charge is first and foremost owning who you are, owning your imperfection. If you own them, they become your asset. If you own your vulnerability, it turns it into strength. That's it. But you have to accept who you are, you, and, and then you get to like what you love. And the complicity with yourself. I asked my husband the other day, do you actually speak to yourself with words? And he said, what do you mean? No, when I think, do you speak to yourself?

• 34:16Emma Grede?

  All the time, sometimes out loud.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 34:19Emma Grede?

  But it's funny because I actually remember asking Jens years ago, I said, do you speak to yourself in Swedish or in English? He's like, what are you talking about?

• 34:28Speaker 01

  That's funny.

• 34:28Emma Grede?

  I speak to myself all the time, but it was quite incredible and again.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  Funny that we both did that.

• 34:34Emma Grede?

  Yeah, but that line that you say, the most important relationship you'll ever have is the relationship you have with yourself. It evolves and it changes, it moves throughout your life. And I'm interested in understanding a bit about you with your family and your children because obviously you were, you were living this like, I mean, anyone who like Googles photos of you will see you have really lived, Diane, like you've had a big, full, juicy, hot, colorful life. You've been out and about and then, you know, you've had two children, you had this huge career. I'm gonna say icon and I know you're like, um, but you are an icon to so many.

• 35:15Emma Grede?

  And within all of that, love and motherhood and family life is obviously a huge part of it. And yet you've still carved out this very important relationship with yourself. So will you just talk about that part of your life a little bit? Cause I feel like some.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  With my children or?

• 35:32Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I would love you to talk about your children and your family.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Okay, so if you talk to my children, I was never there.

• 35:38Emma Grede?

  How does it make me feel when you say that?

• 35:40Speaker 01

  Be ready, uh, be ready.

• 35:42Emma Grede?

  I'm fucking ready for that.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  But if I look at the results, God bless them, they're wonderful. And now they are fully grown up, parents of adults and we speak every single day.

• 35:55Emma Grede?

  Do you have regrets about that, Diane? Do you have regrets at the time you're away?

• 35:58Speaker 01

  The only thing I have regrets is that my daughter had a health condition that I didn't realise. That, that's my only regret in life.

• 36:06Emma Grede?

  Because you were too busy to realise or?

• 36:08Speaker 01

  No, no, but she was also hiding it. But I mean, that, that was, uh, but she's very strong and she manages and she's a great mother and her daughter is a superstar with superpower.

• 36:22Emma Grede?

  Do you feel like you were a good mother?

• 36:25Speaker 01

  Uh, actually, I do, I think. No, I, I am a good one. I mean, yes.

• 36:34Emma Grede?

  Would you have changed anything? Like when your kids say to you, you were never there, is that something that you find hard to take or is that just a consequence of a choice that you made?

• 36:42Speaker 01

  I think I was more, I, I was more there than they think and I would never abandon them like, you know, in, in myself. Um, no, I'm very proud of who they are. Very, and the parents they are.

• 36:55Emma Grede?

  So Diane, tell me what you think about when you see parents, parenting now and women now tear themselves apart or, you know, if you think about, for example, when I wrote my book, I spoke about, you know, I said, I'm a three hour mum and the world went fucking mental.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  I know, I know.

• 37:13Emma Grede?

  So what is your advice when to women?

• 37:15Speaker 01

  First of all, I think the helicopter parents are crazy and you see the result. You have to make your children independent. You give them love and you make them in values and you make them independent. Nothing is more important than making your children independent, nothing. And they have responsibility for themselves. Oh, be careful. No, if you do that, what's the consequence? You may fall, you may this, you may that. But I mean, I was lucky also. I have wonderful, wonderful children. I had a mother, grandmothers are very important.

• 37:52Emma Grede?

  Did you ever have mum guilt?

• 37:54Speaker 01

  What?

• 37:54Emma Grede?

  Did you ever have mum guilt?

• 37:56Speaker 01

  I guilt is not an option. I, I, I, I, guilt and fear.

• 38:01Emma Grede?

  Diane's made of something else. You're made of like steel from another time. You never had mum guilt?

• 38:07Speaker 01

  Guilt is not a, no, not really. I mean, afterwards, yes, for my daughter, for her, for her health, yes.

• 38:16Emma Grede?

  That I understand.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  That is for sure.

• 38:18Emma Grede?

  But you never had guilt about going to work and leaving your children? You never had guilt about travelling? Because again, I do, this show is specifically made for women.

• 38:28Speaker 01

  I was so young that these things, the, the children happen and this, I did the best I could, they came with me. I mean, I went to business trips in Japan, I took them along. I, I, you know, while I was doing business, they had a guide, they would visit the city. I did the best I could and, but guilt, no.

• 38:50Emma Grede?

  What is your message to women listening that find themselves crippled by guilt?

• 38:54Speaker 01

  Talk to your children, explain, you go to school, I go to work and then you have conversation, what did you do, what did you learn? Make them grow. I talk to my children as if they were grown up from day one. My mother did that to me and, and, and my mother was tough. I mean, she locked me in a closet, you know, she did a lot of other things and, and I don't know, good.

• 39:20Emma Grede?

  Do you understand it? Do you even understand like, again, like where we are in society now and the way? Because listen, you have been somebody who's been a fierce feminist your entire life and in some ways, I think that it's far harder right now in two thousand and twenty six to speak in the way that you do than it was fifty years ago. So what does that say about progress for women?

• 39:43Speaker 01

  First of all, I, I don't judge and I, my advice right now to women, okay, you're gonna like this. Women always have solution, right? The most submissive woman anywhere, there's a fire in the house, she gets it together. She takes the children, the jewellery, sometimes she takes the jewellery before the children and off she goes, right? Women have the solution. So I try to promote seduction. And seduction is not about showing your legs, even though today we're a very bad example of it.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  It's about getting what you want, making other people believe it's their idea. That's what seduction is.

• 40:30Emma Grede?

  It really is.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  And that's the power of women. Having said that, I deplore, I mean, I mean, what is happening, I'm in Afghanistan, I, please no, I am on the board of vital voices, I really fight for women's rights, I take it extremely seriously, all of that, very much so. And I deplore this wave of matches that is happening and that everything is a bullet. They make weapons and everything is a bullet, everything is about erection. So that's what we are living now, but us women, we should be smart about it, not confronted.

• 41:16Speaker 01

  Everything is, uh, confront, you know, even the sport, win or lose. Life is not about win and lose. There's very many variety of grey between black and white.

• 41:40Emma Grede?

  You spoke a little bit about like no judgment and I feel like where we are is that there's so much judgment specifically between women. Do you think that that's changed a little bit?

• 41:51Speaker 01

  What, what?

• 41:51Emma Grede?

  Women judging one another.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 41:54Emma Grede?

  Well, I don't really think that any men cared about some of my comments earlier this year, but I do think that it was hard for a lot of women to swallow.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  Don't think about that. You know, if you got a lot of, you know, what did you say?

• 42:09Emma Grede?

  Get a backlash, a little chit chat.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  If we get a lot of backlash, you should think about it. And you should think about it. And maybe it was the delivery. I wouldn't go angry. Every backlash, every criticism is useful.

• 42:26Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I think so too.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  Put oil in the spinach.

• 42:29Emma Grede?

  Yeah. It's such a good one. Let's talk about your relationship. You and Barry were together, you were then apart for decades, and then you found your way back together. So what would you actually tell a young woman about choosing a partner?

• 42:42Speaker 01

  I mean, you don't choose a partner. It happens. You meet somebody, you know, I've never chosen a partner, ever. I've had many partners and I've had two husbands. And I love them all, you know, because you've had intimacy with them and therefore you've shared something special and unique. Clearly, the ones I love most, at the end, are the ones I married. But Barry, I mean, you know, we fell in love 52 years ago, very intensely together. And then I had, I felt like I had to go. That's why I was saying my life has

• 43:21Speaker 01

  been also about fulfilling my fantasy. I don't know. I mean, you know, there is no, there is no book to follow. Everyone designed their life according to, I mean, you can't say you design your life. People can't even survive. I know about survival. I mean, my mother was nothing. She was nothing. She was ashes. There are things that happen and you deal with them. And then you go on. I have no, no, no advice or anything about choosing a partner, except being honest. Being honest and, and being honest and being kind.

• 44:06Emma Grede?

  Comes back down to your life principles. It's the same sort of everywhere in your life.

• 44:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you know, it's, you didn't choose your partner.

• 44:14Emma Grede?

  I feel like I chose him.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  Well, you chose very well.

• 44:19Emma Grede?

  I mean, you chose to go back to Barry.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  No, I didn't choose it. It just happened.

• 44:24Emma Grede?

  You chose it? It's so interesting to me because again, like, again, as an, from the outside, it feels like that.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  We always knew eventually we would get married.

• 44:31Emma Grede?

  You did?

• 44:31Speaker 01

  Yes. And so one day it was his birthday. It was gonna be his birthday Friday, next Friday. And I was giving a Aquarius, because him and both my children are Aquarius. And I was giving an Aquarius party. And so I said, you know, Barry, if you want, I'll marry you for your birthday. And he said, let me see if I can arrange it. And he called City Hall and he arranged it.

• 44:56Emma Grede?

  That's pretty romantic.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. But everything is romantic.

• 45:00Emma Grede?

  Everything in your life, Diane, might be romantic.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  No, in anyone. It's just give, pay attention to the moment and enjoy the moment. And enjoy also the difficulty. You know, I want to give an advice. When you go through a really, really difficult moment, try to detach yourself a little bit and watch it and do it like it was a documentary. Because then maybe you get less emotional about certain things.

• 45:28Emma Grede?

  Yeah. I want to talk to you somewhat just about legacy because one of the most impressive things that you do, and you do a lot of impressive things, for the DVF Awards is something that moves me every single time I see it. I know. But it feels to me that that's something that's so like intrinsic to who you are and your legacy and what you stand for.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  And also who my mother, because the DVF Award is giving money and visibility to women, exceptional women, who have had the courage to fight, the strength to survive, and the leadership to inspire. And that is really my mother. You know, it's honour my mother. But it was really Alex, my son's idea. He said, you know, you do all these things for women, that's doing a war and blah, blah, blah. That's how it happened. And it's wonderful because you, I mean, I really, really, really care about paying attention

• 46:34Speaker 01

  and giving light and visibility to these incredible women who do incredible things. And right now, the world is really difficult and depressing. And, and so, you know, I can't, you must, each of us must think about being kind, being good, and looking for the light. You look for the light, you bring in the light, you grow the light, you cherish the light, and you share the light. Because no matter what, every morning, the sun pushes the darkness away.

• 47:11Emma Grede?

  And there is a kind of magic to that, to living that way. Diane, we've mentioned it a couple of times, but you do turn 80 this year.

• 47:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:18Emma Grede?

  What's the conversation Diane is having with herself as she approaches 80?

• 47:22Speaker 01

  I started in January 1st, that I was going to that school, that I was entering the winter of my life. But I, I'm also very visual, you know. So my new stage is Venice. It's about doing inventory, as I tell you, is the inventory so that everything you leave behind, because I don't know how long, nobody knows how long they live. But obviously, when you enter the winter of your life, you have less time. Of course, tomorrow morning, I can break my leg and goodbye. But it's, it's very exciting, actually. And, and I have a lot of my friends who are also the age, a lot of them have died. The good thing with

• 48:04Speaker 01

  age is that you have the past. So I have a past. And, and it's about putting things in order and, and it's fun. If I manage to live a few years, you know, if I'm there saying that I managed to live another 10 years, it could be my best decade. And I've had some pretty good ones.

• 48:28Emma Grede?

  When you look back, what do you wish you'd worried less about?

• 48:31Speaker 01

  No, not really. I mean, first of all, I don't look back, except for the, you know, the good things. And you only regret the things you don't do.

• 48:42Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 48:43Speaker 01

  If you make mistakes, you pay for them. So you, you know, you have had the consequence. That's it. You're very pretty. You know, you're very pretty.

• 48:50Emma Grede?

  So are you, Diane?

• 48:52Speaker 01

  No.

• 48:52Emma Grede?

  Yes. I mean, that's ridiculous thing to say. You have cheekbones up to your fucking, it's crazy. It's crazy. Every time I, I sit with you, like, I think that you're kind of like a hypnotic woman. You know, you have a special way of sitting where you intertwine your legs and you're always like this. And I think, God, you've got to be really confident to sit like that.

• 49:17Emma Grede?

  Diane, when you think about your legacy now, what actually matters beyond the dress, beyond the company, beyond everything?

• 49:23Speaker 01

  The most important things is my family. My grandchildren, my children, that is by far number one. Number one, for sure. They definitely have priority in my prayers. They have priority in everything. Whether physically, when they were growing up, I was there, I was there, but I was always there. And they turned out good and they have good values. They know about being kind. That is really the most important thing. Second of all, it would be nice to package the things I have learned so that other people can benefit

• 50:04Speaker 01

  from it. And then there is something that was the brand, that is somehow, because it's made of fabric, probably the flag of my life, right? A flag of freedom, you know. So the flag of my, was a dress. So, you know, I want, I would like to put it in the best hands I can. And then we'll see. A lot of it may just end up, you know, once it's all nice and clean, a lot of it may end up in, in the foundation so that it benefits other people.

• 50:41Emma Grede?

  That makes so much sense to me. You're turning 80 this year. So do you know already what your three words are?

• 50:47Speaker 01

  Oh, no, no, no.

• 50:48Emma Grede?

  Next year.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  I never know the words for the following year until I open my diary. And then, and then it comes.

• 50:55Emma Grede?

  Like you feel like it comes to you?

• 50:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. Words come to, I love words. Words are magic. Words are important. My mother used to say, pay attention to their words. And it's so valuable. Now I'm writing a book and again, I'm enhancing words. Words are very important. If you can focus on the words, it's magic.

• 51:19Emma Grede?

  What do you still aspire to be or to become?

• 51:23Speaker 01

  I have to say that aging, I enjoy more and more being me. I have to say that. And that's why I'm not afraid of death. So I...

• 51:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, yes, and, and that's why you shouldn't lie.

• 51:44Emma Grede?

  Mm hmm.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  I mean, I discovered this lying thing recently because New York Times had asked me to, if I would write for New Year's, something about superstition. I say, oh, I give it a try. So just three paragraphs. So I wrote, you know, obviously, as I'm European, you know, we don't go on the ladder or break a mirror, pat on the bed, stupid things like that. And then there's the super superstition that I do with myself, like if I push on the elevator, if that elevator will come and be a good day, stupid things like that. But then I said, no, I have to think a little, something a little deeper.

• 52:22Speaker 01

  And thinking about it, I realized, oh, I didn't realize, but I always thought that lying is bad luck. And I said, have I really never lied? And I've really went into it. And, and it's not that I didn't lie because I was caught in a bad lie when I was a little girl, or because my mother told me not to lie because she would lie about her age. But I always thought that lying is bad luck. And that actually protected me.

• 52:56Emma Grede?

  Oh, shit. Yeah, it'll protect you. When I first met you, you told me the most sweet and magical story about how you see yourself and finding something to see yourself. And it was a story about the plant, and I would just love you to tell that story.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  If you could find something physically that reflects your soul. Somebody asked me that, and I never thought about it. Then I went on a walk in the country, and it was the month of March. Everything was dead, you know, and, and then I saw this green, green stick, I mean, coming plant, and with a little curly head. And it's what they call a twindle? It's a fern. And I thought, oh, this is me. I, I, I came out, I was born out of the ashes. Bright green stick that appeared out of nowhere with a little curly head.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  And then the little curl unwinds and it becomes a fern, the biggest fern with endless opportunity.

• 54:06Emma Grede?

  It's pretty amazing.

• 54:08Speaker 01

  But I'm not describing it well.

• 54:09Emma Grede?

  You're describing it beautifully well. I remember when you told me the story and I was like, oh.

• 54:14Speaker 01

  I was very much into it. I forgot about it.

• 54:17Emma Grede?

  It was a good one, though, because it just, it struck me that we should all, like, have.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  It's good that you reminded me. It'll go back in the book.

• 54:24Emma Grede?

  Yeah, yeah, put it, put it in the book. So much to put in the book. Okay, now we only have rapid fire, so it's like, what's the first thing you do in the morning?

• 54:33Speaker 01

  Take my probiotic.

• 54:35Emma Grede?

  We're all about to run out and buy probiotics immediately. What's the best advice you've ever been given?

• 54:42Speaker 01

  Fear is not an option by my mother.

• 54:45Emma Grede?

  What's something that you'll never apologize for?

• 54:48Speaker 01

  I don't know. I, I don't know what I could apologize for. What do you mean?

• 54:53Emma Grede?

  I don't think you're like an apologetic woman.

• 54:55Speaker 01

  No, I, I, I, I mean, if I do something wrong, I will, I will say I'm sorry, I will apologize.

• 55:01Emma Grede?

  Anything in your own behavior that you're just like, I won't apologize for being like that?

• 55:06Speaker 01

  For being me? Why would I apologize for being me?

• 55:09Emma Grede?

  You absolutely shouldn't. What's the one thing that every woman should spend her own money on?

• 55:14Speaker 01

  A woman should try to have her own money that she can buy everything she wants to buy.

• 55:18Emma Grede?

  Last question. Is there a book that changed your life?

• 55:22Speaker 01

  My favorite book is, I don't know, it's called The Little Prince, The Petit Prince. It's a child's book, but it has everything.

• 55:30Emma Grede?

  Diane, thank you so much. You're the best. You're so good, I'm so happy you're here.

• 55:41Emma Grede?

  If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Our executive producers are Ashley McShan, Derek Brown, and me. Executive producers from Odyssey are Asha Saluja and Leah Reese Dennis. Producer KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Phil Sweetech and Carlos Delgado. Social media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale.

• 56:23Emma Grede?

  Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sidney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company, and WME, Josefina Francis, Hillary Schaff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Meeke, Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Viera. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemmagreed. Grede is spelled G R E D E. That's aspire, A S P I R E, with Emma Grede. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.