Trail Tales 89

Today’s stories include survival of the fittest, mistaken identities, mythical rangers, badass advocates and legendary names. Outsiders Only bonus stories available for Patreon and Apple Subscribers! For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials: Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdark Support the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 1:16Danielle LaRock?

  Hello, everyone, and welcome back to National Park After Dark: Trail Tales Edition. My name is Danielle.

• 1:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm Cassie.

• 1:22Danielle LaRock?

  And this is, if you're new here, hi, hello, and welcome. Thank you so much for joining us. This is a faction of National Park After Dark where we read your stories right on back to you. And it's thrilling and entertaining and amazing and funny and sad and all of the above.

• 1:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  And we love it, because we don't have to research it, and they're real stories. And if you're interested in sending in your own stories...

• 1:45Danielle LaRock?

  What? When you said, "It's so great, because we don't have to research it,"

• 1:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's so true.

• 1:50Danielle LaRock?

  warmed my heart.

• 1:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's so good. But if you want to send in your own, so we have more things we don't have to research, you can go to npadpodcast.com, and we have a submission link there. We'd love to hear from you. It does not have to take place in the outdoors or a national park. If you just think that we'll like your story, just send it to us.

• 2:09Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, shoot your shot, you know?

• 2:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 2:12Danielle LaRock?

  Before we start, I actually have a shout-out, really quickly,

• 2:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh.

• 2:15Danielle LaRock?

  to one of our listeners. If you notice my lovely hat says Used Canoe, we got a package in our P O box. Don't worry, your gift is set aside for you.

• 2:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  Thank you.

• 2:26Danielle LaRock?

  This, I didn't take everything for myself, even though I could have and you would have never known.

• 2:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's true.

• 2:32Danielle LaRock?

  I would never do that to you.

• 2:35Danielle LaRock?

  Um, so we have a P O box and we have listeners send in things like letters, notes, postcards, wedding invitations, uh, things like that. And we got a really, really nice postcard and kind of like gift package from a listener. And I just wanted to shout her out because I think it's really lovely. Dear Cassie and Danielle, I wanted to take a moment to tell you how big of a fan I am of the podcast and the work you've been doing to get more people outside, especially the way you're creating space, visibility and opportunity for women in the outdoor industry. What you're building matters and it shows in every episode. Almost three years ago, I left a job I loved and could ride my bike to every day to take

• 3:16Danielle LaRock?

  a pretty scary leap of opening my own outdoor business called Teleco Goods and Gear, an outdoor store rooted in the belief that access to the outdoors can change people's lives. I commute about an hour every day to the shop and your podcast has become a go-to on my drive. There's something incredibly grounding about listening to stories, research and conversations from y'all while driving through the very landscapes in the mountains that you're helping people better understand and appreciate. Recently, I've been lucky enough to expand, opening a second shop two doors down called Used Canoe, a secondhand gear store focused on keeping quality outdoor gear circulating and accessible. At the heart of both businesses is the same mission, helping more people feel welcome,

• 3:59Danielle LaRock?

  capable and excited to get outside and play. So thank you for all of the work that you do, the stories you tell and the community you're helping to build. You've been a real source of inspiration for me on some long days and early mornings and I'm so grateful for that. Maddie.

• 4:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, congrats. That's huge.

• 4:17Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 4:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  Amazing.

• 4:18Danielle LaRock?

  And, um, yeah. And then she, uh, sent like a little follow-up, little sticky note type of thing about. Me ripping into Gatlinburg.

• 4:29Danielle LaRock?

  Because the, uh, her shops are in Tennessee. So look them up. Um, Tellico and Used Canoe. Because those are both really cool. Like, I love a used gear shop and

• 4:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  Totally. My sleeping bag's from a used gear shop and it, I got it brand new almost. It was usually like a $500 sleeping bag and I got it for $90.

• 4:54Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, that's a steal.

• 4:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  And it's so warm and comfortable.

• 4:57Danielle LaRock?

  Um, I used to live near Farrell in Den- in the Denver area and that store is huge. Um, when it comes to used outdoor gear and stuff. And we've had a couple of questions actually on our, um, Patreon community chats and Discord community about like used gear and like where to best, what resources and stuff. So Used Canoe, check them out.

• 5:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 5:21Danielle LaRock?

  Anyway, okay. Well, I feel like I already read a little mini story, so I think you should go first.

• 5:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  If you insist, I will happily go first. My first story is titled Survival of the Fittest. Hi guys. I love the podcast and recently have been diving into the Trail Tale episodes. They are really helping boost my mood since I live in Buffalo, New York and with it being winter, I'm stuck indoors due to snow and freezing temperatures. While listening to others' fun stories about their adventures, I figured I would send you one of my own. Throughout high school, I have always been outdoorsy and enjoyed backpacking trips or backcountry trips, sorry. I have been on youth rafting trips down the Grand Canyon a couple of times, so I naively thought I was very experienced. This led me to defer in college and signing up for Knoll's trip when I was 19 years old.

• 6:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Due to my hubris, I decided to do a semester backpacking and sea kayaking trip in the backcountry of Patagonia. That's so cool. This is where I should mention that I had never been on an actual backcountry backpacking slash kayaking trip, or even carried a pack heavier than 15 pounds. But since I have the audacity, similar to a man, I thought, how hard can this actually be?

• 6:36Danielle LaRock?

  Boys do it.

• 6:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  I love that for you. Boys do it. I can do it. Well, let me, well, let me tell you, it was the hardest thing I have done to date. I came to the realization the very first night when we dropped deep into the Patagonia fjords with our kayaks and no one around for hundreds of miles. The instructors decided the best time to teach us how to use the bathroom in the backcountry was at 8:00 PM in the dark. Out of our group of 11, only me and three other kids had to go, so we left to wander into the wilderness. We were taught to walk 200 feet from camp in water, dig a cat hole, yada, yada. But the instructor, for some reason, split our group into pairs. So me and this guy, Ryan, who I basically did not know, found a spot.

• 7:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  This is where I learned Ryan was a nervous talker. So as I was trying to poop in this cat hole in the middle of the woods in Patagonia, with a novice level of wilderness experience, Ryan was rambling on about how he was feeling. Eventually, after 10 minutes, I had to beg him to be quiet because I was already horrified that I was doing this with a boy nearby, but also, who can poop when someone is talking to them? After we both finished our business, we looked around and noticed we had no idea where anyone else was. I compared it to the scenes in Jaws when they all realized they are doomed. We started shouting, and instead of staying in one spot, we decided it would be best

• 8:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  to continue hiking in the dark, trying to find someone. At this point, we have been in the woods for an hour and eventually met up with the instructor and two other kids. So we all assumed the instructor knew how to get back to camp. We were wrong. We followed her aimlessly, walking around the woods. Well, not walking speed, walking with this girl was fast. I was basically jogging behind her. This is where I would like to mention, in Patagonia, the forest is so dense that it has a false floor, so while you are walking, at any moment, you can fall in a random hole that can engulf your whole body. While I was running after the instructor for my life, I heard a crash followed by Ryan's panicked

• 8:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  voice, "Reuben, get out of the hole. They are leaving us behind." I cannot blame him for this assumption since the instructor charged ahead unaware that half his group was in a hole. I'm not proud to say this, but I did look back and think, "This is every man for themselves," and drudged on. Eventually, after another two hours of hiking, we saw the glimmer of headlamps and I cannot explain the level of euphoria I felt at the site. It was close to midnight at this point and no one noticed we were all still gone until then and they figured they should go look for us at this point. So that is basically how I almost went missing in the Patagonia wilderness just because I had to poop. This was the first

• 9:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  of many crazy things that happened on this expedition. There are too many stories to tell from this trip, all the way from getting attacked but uninjured by a sea lion to dodging giant boulders with 65-pound packs on my back and constantly falling and rolling down mountain sides. This trip was the best, most exciting, and most treasured memory I have. And even though it may sound uncomfortable, I cannot express how much fun it was. Type 2, the best kind. If anyone ever gets a chance to go on one of these trips, do it. So everyone stay safe out there and never wander too far when looking for a cat hole. Chloe.

• 10:09Danielle LaRock?

  Chloe, what a great decision to defer college to go do that. What an experience. I wish I did shit like that. I really do.

• 10:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, I was just such, I just think of when you're going into college, you're such a baby and, and you don't feel like one at the time, but you really are just so lost and you don't know what you're looking for. You haven't seen the world, most likely. I mean, most people going into college are going from their hometown to a new school and that is your world kind of opening up and you just really don't know yourself at that point. And I always, when I remember being in college when people would defer here, I always was under the assumption, "Oh, that's so bad. You're never..." We're gonna come back like this is it kind of thing. And it's so not true. It's just kind of taking a break from.

• 11:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  You've already been in school for however many years, 12 years straight. You're just taking a break to find yourself a little bit before you come back and make a life altering decision on what you want to study.

• 11:13Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I was always really afraid of like falling behind.

• 11:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Me too.

• 11:17Danielle LaRock?

  That was my whole thing. I'm like, I can't, what? Being college when I'm like

• 11:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  22?

• 11:23Danielle LaRock?

  What?

• 11:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like, oh, my God. I'll be so old.

• 11:27Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, yeah. How would I relate to anyone here?

• 11:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't, I remember there was a guy who had joined the military and then he was in college and he was in my class and he was like four years older than me. And I remember thinking, my God, you're so old. Now I'm like, no, he wasn't.

• 11:45Danielle LaRock?

  Was not. I know.

• 11:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  He was 22. What?

• 11:49Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, hindsight is 2020 for sure.

• 11:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  Truly.

• 11:53Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. My first story is titled terrifying mountain lion encounter in Rocky Mountain National Park.

• 12:01Danielle LaRock?

  Hey ladies, my name is Madison. My sister, my mom and I are huge fans of NPAD. I will keep my gushing about your podcast short and sweet by simply thanking you for all the company you girls have given me over the years. I get so excited whenever I get a sticker in the mail for being an outsider on Patreon and I've progressively been sticker bombing everything I own with NPAD stickers.

• 12:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  Love that.

• 12:23Danielle LaRock?

  I feel like we got to refresh some of our stuff too. We got to get some new designs for your sticker bombing.

• 12:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  I added some the other day.

• 12:32Danielle LaRock?

  What? Really?

• 12:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 12:35Danielle LaRock?

  I didn't know this. I feel like I only own one NPAD sticker also, and it's nowhere to be seen. It's not even on anything.

• 12:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, me too, actually. Al has them.

• 12:49Danielle LaRock?

  Al does.

• 12:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  He raps us all the time. He's probably wearing an NPAD sweater right now.

• 12:54Danielle LaRock?

  We need to get him like a little button, you know, like the I voted button or sticker.

• 12:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 12:59Danielle LaRock?

  So you can just always have it. That being said, I've always wanted to send in a trail tale that's worthy of being on the pod. I guess I could say I'm thankful that in all of my years of camping and hiking in my home state of Illinois and the handful of national park and mountain hiking experiences I've had, I've not really had anything too crazy or scary happen to me. But finally, I guess, I did indeed have a terrifying experience last August in Rocky Mountain National Park, albeit one of the most embarrassing experiences of my entire life. My partner, Michael, and I were desperate for a kid-free getaway last summer, and we were having that itch for the mountains, as many of us born and raised Midwesterners do. We had gone to Colorado once before in 2021 with my family,

• 13:42Danielle LaRock?

  and it easily became one of the most beautiful experiences with nature we have ever had. We obviously fell in love with the mountains, revived our love for hiking, and picked up rock climbing at a local gym here in Peroya, Peroya, Illinois, around this time. Since we loved Colorado so much, we decided it was time to go back last year. We especially loved Estes Park and, of course, the Rocky Mountain National Park, and we felt our time there was limited as it was definitely more of a family/kid-centered vacation. We knew we not only wanted to go back, but also wanted to do some mountain hikes and rock climbing that would highly upset both of our parents greatly. I had a great itinerary planned, one that Michael found absolutely ridiculous because I took it so seriously.

• 14:26Danielle LaRock?

  I just knew we had to soak in as much as possible, especially with my now, so I thought, well-equipped skills that I had accumulated in the years since our last trip by listening to you ladies as well as Tooth and Claw. I had listened to hours of you guys giving the ins and outs of hiking and what mistakes others have made that had gotten them into trouble, as well as what to do in the case of an animal encounter, thanks to the Claw Boys. I truly thought I 100% had what it took to be a tough mountain hiker girly with no fear. I had all the gear, med kits, and of course, bear spray. I had many hikes planned, but our most awaited hike was that of the Yoot Trail, specifically the Alpine Pass entrance in the park,

• 15:08Danielle LaRock?

  which lays at the highest point of Trail Ridge Road, right above the tree line in the mountains. This would be the highest altitude hike we had ever done, which says a lot for us flatlanders. We quickly learned from some locals that it may be a little cocky to attempt the hike in its entirety while having very little altitude experience. So we decided to only do a section of the trail called Tombstone Ridge with the peak of the hike being the most beautiful view of Long's Peak in the distance. When I tell you I was prepared, I mean, I truly had every detail ironed out, even having watched most of the hike on YouTube beforehand to get a feel for what we were getting ourselves into. I was doing this damn hike, one way or another. Buckle up lungs, you weak little bitch. I've

• 15:52Danielle LaRock?

  never looked at a YouTube like video beforehand, like tutorial kind of, you know, the walkthroughs of hikes that people do. Super helpful now thinking about it, but.

• 16:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  I've done it a handful of times and I think that it's kind of, it's great because you get to see exactly what you're getting into, but also it kind of gives away everything. So it's kind of the level of prepared. Do you want to see everything right before or do you want a little bit of mystery? But it is nice because I've looked at different through hikes and like sections of through hikes before to be like, hmm, could I do that? And I've watched those on YouTube.

• 16:30Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. The people who do that are the real MVPs. Like not only are you out there doing the actual trail yourself, but you're also recording and editing and being a content creator and doing all of that sort of stuff that takes a lot out of you. The expected weather for the week ahead ended up being very spotty when we arrived Colorado. So we knew that waiting till towards the end of the six day trip to do this hike in hopes of allowing ourself to acclimate may be out of the question. We would likely have to find a weather window and just roll with it. On the third day, we had our chance and took it. We were up long before sunrise to do the hour and a half drive through the park and up the mountain to the Alpine Pass pull off. There are some things so surreal

• 17:14Danielle LaRock?

  to see the landscape change from lush pine and green to a cold rocky desert wasteland before your eyes in the matter of minutes. The mountains will never not take my breath away and my heart will always reside within them. Anyways, cue my mom anxiously texting me because she knew what we were doing and that there was no way that she could stop us. My mom loves to just reply to any of our outdoor plans with all of the ways in which we will likely die and never come home. She was mostly terrified that we would get eaten by a bear or a mountain lion. And I'll admit that I was also nervous about animal encounters, but after many silly arguments with Michael and AI chat telling us we had literally nothing to worry about,

• 17:55Danielle LaRock?

  I felt pretty confident that we would not see any dangerous wildlife, or I would be totally ready if we did. I was actually excited to see some wildlife after traveling to both Smoky Mountain Park multiple times and Rocky Mountain while never having seen a bear once. I swear, they're not real. I especially wanted to see the cute yellow belly marmots that lived in the Alpine regions of the park. Fast forward to us suited and booted, hiking six and all, beginning our Lord of the Rings style hike across the shoulders of the mountain tops. Spirits were high despite the wind and the cold. I felt confidence that I didn't even know I had. We began the steady hike slash rock scramble upwards for felt, for what felt like a while.

• 18:38Danielle LaRock?

  It was absolutely dead silent up there. I mean, not even the chirp of a bird. Our shallow breaths were the loudest sounds around. We finally reached an area surrounded by boulder fields that made me feel like I was in, like I was on an alien planet. The outcropping of rocks to our left were stunning, but also vaguely reminded me of that of Pride Rock from The Lion King. That was also around the time I felt the strong feeling of not being alone. I expressed this to Michael, which he quickly dismissed, of course, and we pressed on. As we came closer to a cluster of rocks as tall as a house, I heard a piercing sound come from the boulders.

• 19:18Danielle LaRock?

  It was a distinct chirping sound, one I had heard many times in reels and on YouTube videos. Yeah, the chirping. One that mountain lions are known to make as a communication to other mountain lions or their cubs. I know you ladies know that exact sound. We do. We do. Well, maybe we'll, let's insert a little chirp clip here.

• 19:41Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, now everyone knows. Great.

• 19:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Now everyone understands what a mountain lion sounds like.

• 19:47Danielle LaRock?

  I stopped dead in my tracks and grabbed Michael's arms. "Stop, shut up, and listen," I whispered. "Dude, that's a bird," he laughed. "No, that sounds like a fucking mountain lion call. We need to wait here," I said as I immediately started scanning the rocks for any sign of movement. Surely enough, within a few seconds, I saw a very large body with fur and a long tail swiftly jump between the rocks and behind a large boulder to peek its big head over the edge to get a good look at us the way we were to it. Ladies, when I tell you, my blood ran cold, face turned pure white, pupils dilated, and then about shot myself. Every single piece of advice I had learned over the years was instantly thrown out the

• 20:32Danielle LaRock?

  window in that very moment. So what did I do, you may ask? I fucking booked it.

• 20:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  I was gonna say, don't say you ran.

• 20:43Danielle LaRock?

  I dropped my hiking poles where they were, turned and sprinted as fast as I could, all while screaming, "Fuck, it's a mountain lion!"

• 20:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Just to clarify, a mountain lion is much faster than you also.

• 20:57Danielle LaRock?

  Just to clarify, which this person already knows, and we all know at this point in time, don't trigger a predatory response by acting like prey and running away.

• 21:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  Quite literally.

• 21:11Danielle LaRock?

  I ran probably about 50 feet until I realized I had just completely left Michael to be eaten by the big cat. It's like, oh yeah, him.

• 21:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  The cat doesn't care about Michael. It cares about its prey that's running around like crazy right now.

• 21:26Danielle LaRock?

  When I turned, he was still out there. In fact, he was approaching the area curiously to see what it was that we had saw. The chirping continued more angrily now. It's for sure a mama warning us to get the hell back. It probably has cubs. Get back here now, I yelled in my most mom voice that I could ever muster. Michael gave a laugh back to me and held out his hand to me to stay back while he had his bear spray in the other hand. The bear spray he laughed at me for bringing, by the way. It's like, oh.

• 21:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, now you want to use it.

• 21:58Danielle LaRock?

  Interesting. How about?

• 21:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  Now, now it's coming in handy. What would have you done if we didn't have it?

• 22:03Danielle LaRock?

  Slowly, he continued to approach the rock that the animal was hiding behind. Suddenly, the furry had disappeared back behind the rocks. I let out another deafening scream and I was convinced this was it for him and she was coming to charge. I'll also add that despite my warnings, Michael is completely convinced that he could take out a mountain lion in a bar fight. Why are men this way? And that's a great question.

• 22:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's, it goes to the question of they did a survey to a bunch of men and asked them if they thought they could take out a bear and like 70% said yes.

• 22:37Danielle LaRock?

  I've had this conversation with a man.

• 22:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  Who thought that they could take out a bear?

• 22:41Danielle LaRock?

  Yes, a black bear. They're like, I don't know if I could do a grizz, but for sure a black.

• 22:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  You can't do a black bear either. Maybe a baby black bear.

• 22:50Danielle LaRock?

  It's like, I don't know if I can continue this relationship. Okay. Like as a friend, this is embarrassing.

• 22:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  I can't be associated with this.

• 22:58Danielle LaRock?

  You know, you are who you associate with. Professionally, I have to separate from you.

• 23:07Danielle LaRock?

  Also, they think they can land planes. They think they can do a lot of things. This ties back to the audacity thing that you, you talked about in your first story. The audacity of men, you know?

• 23:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 23:19Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 23:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  I feel like I could land a plane.

• 23:21Danielle LaRock?

  What?

• 23:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  If someone gave me

• 23:24Danielle LaRock?

  Cassie.

• 23:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  full instructions over the phone and told me exactly what I needed to do. I think I could do it. The audacity of men is in me as well.

• 23:41Danielle LaRock?

  I don't even know how to respond, so I'm gonna just continue this story.

• 23:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Thank you.

• 23:45Danielle LaRock?

  We can talk later.

• 23:48Danielle LaRock?

  But then, to my embarrassing surprise, what appears out of the other side of this boulder, the biggest, and I mean largest, marmot I had ever fucking seen. She was absolutely pissed and probably terrified because this random creature came to her peaceful home just to scream her head off and run for her life. She probably felt the most proud she had ever felt as a marmot, watching a slightly overweight Midwestern woman running for the hills from her like she was a beast of the mountains.

• 24:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  Wait, so it was a marmot this whole?

• 24:20Danielle LaRock?

  It was a marm-

• 24:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  I believed you that it was a mountain lion this whole time.

• 24:26Danielle LaRock?

  You had us, you had us all fooled. Michael bursted out in hysterical laughter as I wiped my tears and yelled at him for scaring the shit out of me. My tears turned to embarrassed laughter as I threatened to whack Michael with my hiking sticks that I had retrieved from the ground. I just have to say, I had no idea marmots got that big and I didn't even know their tails could get that long. So that, mixed with the Pride Rock vibe of the area was giving me, maybe you can see how my fear was slightly justified? Maybe? Probably not. I'm a wussy and I am aware. We did end up continuing the hike and at first, I was so relieved that we seemed to be the only ones out there to see and hear the moment I quite literally crashed out entirely.

• 25:10Danielle LaRock?

  But unfortunately, about 20 minutes later, a lone hiker caught up to us and passed by, giving a soft chuckle as they did. There is no way they didn't hear me. As I said, it was dead silent out there and any sound echoed for miles. At that point, you could have just left me out there to die. I was so embarrassed. Long story short, we ended up having to turn back towards the very end of the hike as there were some troubling clouds coming in the distance. And I know a place like that is the last place you want to be in a lightning storm. At least I did that right. I'm glad we did because just as we reached our car, the storm quickly rolled in. We still got an amazing view of Long's Peak in the distance and my soul felt fulfilled to be in awe of such a breathtaking place.

• 25:53Danielle LaRock?

  And I guess I got just what I originally wanted, to see a marmot, just not in the way I had expected. Anyways, I hope this is a great lesson for all of the newbie hikers out there who think they know it all when it comes to animal encounters in the wild. We all love to pass judgment on victims and think of all the things we would have done if we were them, but you really never know just how your body will react to fear in the heart, in the heat of the moment. It was truly like my brain and body were separate in that moment and my body totally won. I'll also add that later in the trip, even our rock climbing guide in Estes laughed at my carrying of bear spray. Meanwhile, there was sadly a mountain lion attack in the Estes area here just recently, where the woman sadly passed away.

• 26:37Danielle LaRock?

  That being said, I will continue to enjoy the view, but watch my back. Thanks so much, ladies. Love you always. Here's to many more mountain adventures. Hopefully next time I can keep my shit together.

• 26:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, well, I agree with the last sentiment where it's never wrong to be prepared. And I think if you're in a location that allows you to carry bear spray, it's not a bad idea to have something to protect you, even if it seems silly.

• 27:03Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 27:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  And just don't use it against a marmot.

• 27:06Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I kind of get a little upset is the wrong word, but I think it's kind of, I don't like when people shame other people for trying to be prepared. And especially when it comes to bear spray. And I think that stems from like all the online forums of people like will die on the hill that black bears are not dangerous. And that you are the stupid one for carrying bear spray in black bear territory only. And I think that, like you said, if it is allowed, because there are certain places, it is illegal to carry bear spray. But if it's permitted and it makes you feel better and it adds this level of comfortability.

• 27:48Danielle LaRock?

  And you can enjoy yourself a little bit more on a hike, which you've been looking forward to or planning for however many months before you go, like do it and don't let somebody shame you into thinking that you're overreacting.

• 28:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  Cause you're not. Yeah. It's better to feel prepared in your comfortability. The story kind of reminded me of it. It was a little bit different, but it was just giving me flashbacks to my own little trail story, which I think I've shared before on the podcast. So I'll keep it short. But when I was in the Tetons, we were hiking on a trail and we saw the, and we were returning back and we saw these hikers that were running towards us. And we were like, hey, what they're like, there's a bear, there's a bear down there, there's a bear. And so they had made the decision, even though where the bear was, was like point two miles from the end of the trail. They decided to turn around and do, I think

• 28:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  it was, it's been a while now. So I forget, but I think it was an extra six miles that they, the way that they were going to go and loop back around and go the other side.

• 28:54Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 28:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  And they had no water. They're like red in the face, terrified. They're like, don't go that way. There's a bear. And there were three of us and we were like, we're going to go this way. And we went and we ended up linking up with two other people who were also walking that way. So then there was five of us and we walked by and there was a bear. It was a black bear and it was a mama bear and she was just sitting under a tree with her cub that was rolling around in the moss and she was just watching us, didn't care, walked right by her, totally fine. And these other people had made the decision to fully run and go the other direction and kind of freak out a little bit. And it

• 29:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  wasn't the right decision. I hope they made it okay. Cause they had water and it was really hot.

• 29:43Danielle LaRock?

  It's like, I think about them all the time.

• 29:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  I think about them all the time, but I hope they're okay.

• 29:47Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I hope they're doing well.

• 29:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 29:49Danielle LaRock?

  But I thought you were gonna, I thought you were gonna say the story reminded you of, and it's been years since you told the story, but. And we don't have to rehash it, but about the chickens outside your tent or something?

• 30:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, one owl, one owl just went to, we, um, we were camping one time and we weren't in a campsite. We were just camped in the woods somewhere and we woke up in the morning and I kept hearing footsteps outside of our tent and I was like, Alec, what is that? Someone's outside of our tent? What is that? And we had seen a car kind of pull that the night before there had been a car kind of close to us and they were shining our lights on us and it was kind of weird.

• 30:29Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 30:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  What are they doing? But we don't know if they could see us because we were in the woods and they could have just been parked on the side of the road, kind of where we were. And then there were these chick, there were these sounds that were coming around outside. I'm like, I'll go check out. He's like, I want to check it out. And he's all scared. And then he opens the tent and I'm just sitting there like heart racing.

• 30:52Danielle LaRock?

  It's like, is he about to get killed in front of me?

• 30:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Is there someone out there stalking our tent? And he walks out and starts laughing and he's like, there's a bunch of chickens out.

• 31:04Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, thank God.

• 31:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like, they scared us though. You never know what's lurking out there.

• 31:10Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 31:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Could be a marmot, could be a chicken.

• 31:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  Could actually be a bear or a mountain lion.

• 31:18Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 31:27Danielle LaRock?

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• 32:10Danielle LaRock?

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• 32:51Danielle LaRock?

  Maybe plaster my favorite things on them, like my dog's faces or the Titanic. And even though I can't put the Titanic on my Cash App card, they do something arguably better. Cash App does more than you think when it comes to having your back and making sure your money stays your money. Cash App just released a new status program for the way people actually spend called Cash App Green. Now, when you spend at least $500 a month with the Cash App card, you earn green status, which unlocks benefits like up to $200 of free overdraft coverage. If you overdraft unexpectedly, there are no hidden fees. You also unlock higher borrow limits and custom personalized cash back offers every Friday at places you love to shop. Turn everyday spending into status with Cash App Green.

• 33:34Danielle LaRock?

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• 33:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, my next story is titled Badass Disability Advocates: Women in Another Historic Everest Climb. First time writer here. I love the podcast and you two are frequent companions of my Red Heeler Mixed Dog Whiskey and me while we go on our daily walks. This isn't really a trail tale per se, but your recent episode about accessibility in national parks inspired me to write in because it relates to topics near to my heart and my career. I work at Perkins School for the Blind where Helen Keller was a student in the late 1800s. I have the daily privilege of working alongside disability rights advocates who continue Keller's legacy, especially my boss, Kim Charleston.

• 34:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  On top of ensuring blind and low vision people have access to audio, Braille, and large print books and other materials through Perkins Library Service, which includes the largest collection of Braille books on the East Coast, Kim devotes her life to fighting for accessibility for disabled populations everywhere. She was a key player in the campaign to make ATMs and currency accessible. $10 bills with tactile markings are scheduled to begin rolling out in the United States in 2026, and lobbies Hollywood to provide audio description for television shows and movies. She is also an advocacy leader for Guide Dog users recently speaking out as a leader at the Rideshare Rally protests in San Francisco, which urged Uber and Lyft to enforce policies

• 35:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  that would prevent drivers from unlawfully denying rides to blind riders with Guide Dogs an all too common problem.

• 35:28Danielle LaRock?

  Kim, oh my god.

• 35:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  Doing all the, doing the most, Kim.

• 35:34Danielle LaRock?

  Yes.

• 35:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  Kim's loyal German Shepherd Guide Dog Isabel stood at her side at the entire rally as Kim shouted her message into a microphone. "Guide Dog denials are not acceptable and the blind community is unified. It's time to acknowledge that it is a systemic discrimination issue and we will not accept no for an answer." As the first female president of the American Council of the Blind, she was also instrumental in the advocacy for and the creation of audio described materials in national parks. With Kim's involvement and ACB's partnership with the University of Hawaii and the National Park Service, 15 park sites across California were able to translate their visual printed

• 36:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  brochures and guides into fully accessible materials available on websites and mobile apps for blind and low vision park visitors. That's amazing.

• 36:26Danielle LaRock?

  Kim, I just, I'm so impressed. I know you're not done yet, but this is like, I feel like I'm busy, you know? And then I read about someone like Kim and I say, oh, I haven't done much.

• 36:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, and just to be doing it for such a positive, positive cause.

• 36:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  So on the topic of badass women leading the way for people with disabilities, here's part two. I only recently just became aware of this, but your telling of Eric Wyman Mayer's story made me feel like I had to bring this to your attention. A 29-year-old woman named Caroline Packeney has been preparing to become the first ever deaf blind person to climb Mount Everest. She was born with Usher syndrome, which is a rare genetic disorder that results in both hearing and vision loss. She has completed marathons, an ultra marathon, which I didn't even know was a thing before, a winter training course, and climbed Merri Peak in Nepal, all in preparation for the big climb.

• 37:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  Carolina says that she wants to bring awareness and understanding to spectrum of blindness, which is a noble goal. In my work at Perkins, I can see how little is actually understood by the general population about blindness, not to mention deaf blindness. Blindness is not always just lights off and manifests in many forms. Many times blindness is not even a result of the eye being unable to see, but a result of the brain being unable to interpret the information that the eyes are sending, cerebral cortical visual impairment, aka CBI. As we like to say at Perkins, blindness is a spectrum, and I love that Carolina aims to bring attention to that fact. I hope this message can help bring attention to Carolina's

• 38:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  historic climb, which is scheduled for May of this year. Enjoy the view, but watch your back, and make sure everyone has the same opportunities to enjoy the great outdoors. Stephen.

• 38:24Danielle LaRock?

  Wow. May, that's right around the corner.

• 38:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, I'll be looking out for that. I can't wait to cheer them on and see.

• 38:34Danielle LaRock?

  How it goes.

• 38:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  And accomplish it. Yeah, I mean, that's amazing. That's really exciting. And I love, I know I've said this before, but I just love when society tells a person, this is not the space for you, or you are not able to do this, and they just shatter that expectation. And they're like, absolutely not. You do not set the limits for me. I do, and I can, and I can accomplish way more than what you believe I can. And I just, I, I love stories like that, and I think that's amazing.

• 39:06Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, so we'll definitely be keeping a lookout for information and news about her. Maybe we can follow, I'm sure the Perkins School will be. Maybe if we like follow them if they're putting updates about it and stuff.

• 39:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 39:21Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, cool. Okay. My second story is titled The Mythical Park Ranger.

• 39:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh.

• 39:29Danielle LaRock?

  Hello, Cassie and Danielle.

• 39:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  The mythical park ranger, like the mythical moose.

• 39:35Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, right. It's a new

• 39:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  They don't exist.

• 39:39Danielle LaRock?

  A new way of saying moose aren't real.

• 39:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 39:42Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, yeah, The Mythical Park Ranger. Hello, Cassie and Danielle. I just started listening to NPAD less than a year ago and it has become my new favorite podcast. I started when my now fiance and I were looking up information about the Great Smoky Mountains and what trails we should do. And during our seven hour drive, we were browsing Spotify, literally just looking up Great Smoky Mountains National Park. We were supposed to be researching trails, but I stumbled upon your podcast of Treni and being a true crime lover forced him to listen with me. This story takes place back in 2024. I was not a hiker, did not like camping, and preferred beaches for vacations. My now fiance loves the outdoors. He has visited at least 25 national parks in the past four years, loves to camp,

• 40:26Danielle LaRock?

  never has a plan, and loves to hike. Me, not so much. I never wanted to go on a hiking trip and definitely never wanted to camp. But when he was planning a trip to New Mexico and Texas with his friends, I started to get a little jealous. I knew they were hiking, but I had never been to either of those states and I kind of wanted to go. But I didn't want to give him the satisfaction of knowing his interests were finally intriguing me. But if there's one thing my fiance knows is that I can't hide anything. So for Christmas, he surprised me with my plane ticket and everything paid for to go on this trip. And I was so excited. Green flag.

• 41:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  Huge green flag.

• 41:07Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, because that could have easily been like, this is a, like, this is my thing with my friends and you don't even like it.

• 41:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  Have you seen that guy on Instagram where he watches videos and he takes a giant flag and it's either green or red and he like runs around? I just pictured me running across a field with a giant green flag right now.

• 41:28Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I think Justin, is his name Justin or something like that?

• 41:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't remember. He pops up in my For You page a lot.

• 41:35Danielle LaRock?

  I actually follow him.

• 41:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, really?

• 41:38Danielle LaRock?

  Like, I know he just moved to Spain. Good for him.

• 41:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  You're following his life.

• 41:44Danielle LaRock?

  And I had one month to get in shape to hike. Plot twist, I didn't.

• 41:50Danielle LaRock?

  I was very happy to learn this wasn't a camping trip because I had only camped at music festivals prior to this and usually was drunk the entire time. I had no idea what I was in for regardless. I'll brush past White Sands and Carlsbad Caverns because although they were phenomenal, the story is not about that. My first real hike ever was climbing Guadalupe Peak in Guadalupe Mountains National Park. I know what you're thinking. Why? Impressive. Why did I choose this hike? I didn't. I was at the mercy of three boys and a dream. I had no input on any of it, and I was just along for the ride. When we arrived at the Guadalupe Mountains National Park Visitor Center, they asked what we were hiking. When we told them the peak,

• 42:34Danielle LaRock?

  things got real serious. They asked if we were sure because wind chills got below zero at the top. The boys enthusiastically nodded and agreed. They asked if we had enough water and snacks because it was almost eight miles round trip. They nodded and agreed. I hoped my fiance packed my snacks because my hydro pack was filled with water and only water. Finally, the ranger told us that we might see Pam. We asked, who's Pam? Pam is a local legend. Pam is about us. Pam had climbed Guadalupe Peak once or twice a week for over five years. She was the only one who noted the trail conditions all on foot and all at 75 years old. That's amazing.

• 43:19Danielle LaRock?

  We chuckled as the ranger was talking about Pam as if she was this mythical creature. The boys filled up on extra water and we made our way back to the trailhead. The other ranger gave us the same warning to leave no trace and pick up your poop as if I was going to poop on the side of the mountain. No, this is not a poop story. When we started the hike at about 8:00 AM, it was hot. I was told to wear layers and the first almost two miles of Guadalupe Peak is uphill, very few switchbacks. And did I mention hot? I had to keep stopping, feeling embarrassed that I was going to keep the boys behind. They insisted it was okay. They knew what they were getting into.

• 43:58Danielle LaRock?

  I love how this connects because you just also talked about the accessibility trail tale, your last story, which was because of my accessibility episode, which was about Guadalupe Peak in part, at least. It's all coming together. Continuing on this hike, we switched biomes. It was surreal and magical, from sandy desert to lush forest, and eventually, we even hit some snow. There were very few other people on the trail, the ones we started with most likely turned around, and we saw some early risers already on their way down. The one thing I learned early on is no matter how close you think you are to the summit, you're a lot farther than you think. Yeah, welcome to what is torture in the outdoor world.

• 44:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  We love it.

• 44:44Danielle LaRock?

  Type two.

• 44:47Danielle LaRock?

  When I thought I could see the peak, I learned it was actually behind what I was seeing. But no matter how tired I was, I was in awe of the beauty that I didn't even know existed.

• 44:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Ah, the good old false summit. We know it well. We know it well.

• 45:02Danielle LaRock?

  We crossed a pretty spooky bridge, and there was some rock scrambling ahead. We took a short break for water and a snack, and we heard somebody coming down the trail. We saw the ranger's uniform, and then we saw her face, and then we saw her name tag. "That's Pam," I whispered to my fiance. "No way," he whispered back. The entire trail, we were making jokes about seeing Pam, not thinking we'd actually run into her, and there she was, coming our way. She smiled as she started to pass us, and I had to speak up. "Hi, are you Ranger Pam?" I asked, almost too giddy. It felt like seeing a celebrity, even though I had only heard about her a few hours prior. "I am," she gleamed. "Are they talking about me down there again?" We all laughed and nodded.

• 45:45Danielle LaRock?

  "Yes, they say you climb this trail a lot." She told us that her and her late husband loved to hike, and they traveled all throughout the United States. He eventually got sick and passed away, and instead of sitting around and doing nothing, Pam joined the National Park Service. She said that the Guadalupe Peak is her favorite trail, and because so many people trek up it, she wants to climb it in the mornings and talk to those on their way up to warn them about conditions of the trail. She bragged about holding the record of most summits to the peak, estimating it's now in the hundreds. Hearing her story was absolutely amazing. Me, at 24 years old, with the Guadalupe Peak as my first ever real hike, meeting a legend,

• 46:26Danielle LaRock?

  Ranger Pam, who was probably on her 137th trek up the mountain, and I was astonished. Pam eventually warned us of some ice up near the top and wind chill and that the wind chills were hitting zero degrees. We thanked her for her story and the warning and we're on our way. I won't bore you with the details from the rest of the hike, although the summit was freezing. At the top of the peak is a USPS monument, which was really cool. I even FaceTimed my mom, bragged that I had just climbed a mountain. Once we climbed back down, I felt pride I had never had before. I just climbed a freaking mountain. I never knew that was something that I would even want to do. I crossed off a bucket list item I never knew I even had. We tried to find Pam at the visitor's center afterwards, but

• 47:11Danielle LaRock?

  we soon learned that Pam comes and goes as she pleases, and I can only imagine that's the feeling of being truly free. Since that first trip, I have now hit 12 national parks in two years, the coolest being hiking the crater at Haleakala, another crazy story, my favorite Olympic Twilight fan for life, and the most recent biking eight miles through the Everglades. I'm not sure I can give all of the credit to Pam, but she definitely inspired me to live my life to the fullest. A lot of beaches are the same, and as much as I love the sun, there's just something truly magical about seeing a geological wonder with your own two eyes. Safe to say, I am now obsessed. That's my story of the beginning of my hiking

• 47:54Danielle LaRock?

  journey. I'm so grateful to have the opportunities to see such beautiful places, and I can't wait to see what I encounter next. Stay safe and watch your back. You never know when local legends will inspire the next phase of your life. Riley.

• 48:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  I love that story, Riley. I feel like it just embodied everything about what's so special about national parks, from the landscape that you're in, the feats you accomplish while you're there, the friends you get to spend time with while you're out there, and the people that are actually a part of the park service and them sharing their love and knowledge of the places that you are visiting as well. And I just feel like it just embodied so much of what the National Park Service is.

• 48:38Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, it had it all.

• 48:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 48:40Danielle LaRock?

  It's a great origin story, for sure.

• 48:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  For sure. You just went headfirst right into hiking and the mountains and the outdoors. You didn't, you didn't walk, you ran, and now you're in it.

• 48:54Danielle LaRock?

  I can imagine the Guadalupe.

• 48:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bay Peak. Like, reaction, you know? What are you doing? That's your first? Okay. You know? Yeah. Sometimes you just gotta go all in. Yep.

• 49:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Last Christmas, Al bought me a record player and since then I've gotten really into collecting records, but I also wanted the whole setup to look beautiful in our home. So when I saw the Joe Kuna vinyl media unit from Article, I knew exactly where it was going. And when it arrived, I was really impressed with the quality. And it's one of those pieces that's just as functional as it is nice to look at. That's really what Article does so well. They make it easy to create a stylish home with high-quality furniture at a really great price. Their collection includes everything from sofas and sectionals to dining tables, chairs, bedroom furniture, storage, outdoor pieces, and decor with a lot of mid-century modern coastal and Scandi-inspired designs. And everything is curated to work together,

• 49:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  so you can mix and match pieces without feeling like you need to be an interior designer to make your home feel cohesive. If you do want some help, Article even offers free interior design services and their customer care team is available seven days a week. They also offer fast, affordable shipping across the US and Canada, professional assembly options, and a 30-day satisfaction guarantee, so you can feel confident ordering furniture online. Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit article.com/NPAD and the discount will automatically be applied at checkout. That's article.com/NPAD for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.

• 50:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know about you, but I always tell myself I'm going to get my holiday shopping done early and somehow I still end up scrambling to find gifts for everyone on my list. But this year, I'm really trying to be a little bit more organized and shop makes that so much easier. Shop brings together tons of stores and brands in one place, so whether you're looking for stocking stuffers, something for the person who's impossible to shop for, or even a little something for yourself, you can search across stores without jumping between a million different websites. From home decor and kitchen essentials to clothing, electronics, and gifts for just about anyone, there's so- So much to explore. You could also find great deals, check out quickly and track all your orders in one spot, which is especially helpful during the holidays when you've got

• 51:15Cassandra Yahnian?

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• 51:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Cool. Well, my next story is titled Writing on the Wall. Hi Cassie and Danielle. I'll start off by saying I love the show. I'm mostly caught up with old episodes, but I just joined Patreon last month and I'm loving all the bonus episodes. I never thought I'd be a true crime girly, but here I am. I love the combo of genres you cover and often tell anyone who will listen about this super interesting episode I just listened to. I'm not sharing my name today for reasons that will soon become apparent. The trail took place in the summer of 2022 when my family took a trip to Mammoth Caves National Park. We spent a couple of days at the caves before moving farther east to Great Smoky Mountains

• 52:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  National Park. Yes, we stayed in Gatlinburg. Yes, we had the same experience that Danielle did, and we are so sorry we didn't warn you. Apology accepted, I guess.

• 52:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  God. It's still a sensitive topic. We went on the Extended Historic Tour of the Caves where we learned all about the tuberculosis hospital as well as the domes and drip stone tour. Our kids were five and 11 years old and despite the many stairs we had to traverse for tours, they loved it. Not only was it a literal breath of fresh air to be underground during the late summer heat, but the interpretive park rangers did a fantastic job of sharing cool facts about the cave formations and the history behind the park. I love listening to the rangers when I'm at the parks, which is why I was pretty annoyed when one of my kids started pulling on my sleeve and whispering, "Mom, mom, mom!" in my ear in the middle of a ranger

• 53:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  talk. We were in an area with a formation called the Giants Coffin, a place where people used to sign their names on the rock before the caves became a national park in 1941. Frustrated, I tried to make shushing gestures at my child, but she wouldn't stop trying to get my attention. Finally, I caved, pun intended, ha, ha, ha, and whispered, "What?" in her ear as gently as I could.

• 54:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  You know that mom voice where you're trying not to sound like a bitch, but you just can't help it? That was me. Her response floored me as she whispered back, "Why is your name on the wall?"

• 54:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  "Uh, what the hell are you talking about?" I thought, looking towards where she pointed. I saw our last name spelled out in gigantic letters among the many signatures. It was so unexpected that I immediately forgave her for interrupting my focus on the ranger. I nudged my husband to show him, and we shared a weird moment of awe and confusion. We finished the tour, but never got around to asking the ranger if they knew anything about it. Later that night, we Googled it and found out there's a legend about a giant named Cozad, our last name, that cave guides used to tell to tourists. I've copied the story from the NOS website below.

• 54:56Danielle LaRock?

  NPS, probably.

• 54:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, that's probably true. I'm like, I don't know what NOS is, but NPS.

• 55:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  This large boulder is forty-eight feet in length, twenty feet in height, and eight feet wide. It weighs approximately a thousand tons. On the surface, you can see many historic signatures, as well as some not-so-historic signatures. Names like J. N. McDowell, M.D., eighteen thirty-nine is considered historic. The signature was scribed before the cave became a national park in nineteen forty-one. After the establishment of the national park, making marking on the cave walls became a federal offense. The earliest name for this particular landmark was Steamboat by the eighteen forties. Visitors decided it looked more like a giant's coffin. Guides began to weave tales about a race of giants that

• 55:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  once roamed this land. The smallest among them began to venture daily into these depths. Inside the cave, he found a world untouched by the light and filled with strange creatures living in the darkness. The young giant named Cozad befriended the creatures, promising to protect them and their home. Local tribes would bring offerings to the cave entrance daily for the kind giant. As time passed, days became years and years became centuries, but each night the offerings would be gone. A peaceful relationship developed between the tribes and Cozad. Entry to the underworld would remain open as long as no harm came to the cave or those that dwelled there. One night, a tribal warrior was on patrol

• 56:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  around the entrance and noticed the offerings had not been accepted. Tribal leaders were worried they had offended the giant, so they sent their finest warriors and scholars on a pilgrimage to find the gentle giant and to assure the treaty was still in place. With their torches held high, the group journeyed into the depths. Shadows danced in the flickering amber light that stretched up against the ash and stone walls. Pushing deeper into the quiet void, they found the aged gentle giant sleeping on the stone floor. They tried many things to rouse him, but he would not stir. The tribe built the stone coffin that protects him today, for it is told that one day, when his cave friends need him, the

• 57:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  giant shall arise from his slumber and walk these passages once more. Till that day, people like you and I can help protect the subterranean world for future generations.

• 57:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  And this is why I've asked not to share my first name, since my last name is plastered in enormous letters for the whole world to see. Since we don't know many people who share our last name, it was really neat to see it in a national park. I usually don't condone acts of vandalism in parks, but I guess I can make an exception for this one. It is a fun park memory for my family that is unlike any other. Ever since that trip, we've continued to go to a new national park or forest each year. This year, we will be heading to Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons. I'm already putting together a podcast playlist to listen to while we're there. We snapped a quick picture of our namesake cave formation, which I'll share with you. Thank you for advocating for nature and wildlife and for

• 58:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  creating a community of compassion in an increasingly compassionless world. It goes a long way towards keeping my mental health in check in this crazy world. You guys rock. I hope to be able to join you on a trip someday. Until then, enjoy the view and watch out for weirdly specific graffiti and caves.

• 58:23Danielle LaRock?

  What a cool story to have linked to your name.

• 58:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, and just a really fun way to learn more about the location that you're in to be like, wait, I connect to that. What is that? And doing your own research and then finding this whole legend that took place. It's kind of the bread and butter of what we love to do when we're visiting national parks. And it's so cool. You just saw your name literally written on the wall.

• 58:49Danielle LaRock?

  That people ask us all the time, how do you find stories?

• 58:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like this.

• 58:52Danielle LaRock?

  Kind of like your daughter.

• 58:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 58:55Danielle LaRock?

  It's like, huh, that's interesting. I wonder what that's all about. And then it leads into this new chapter of the park that you didn't know existed. And to be fair, Cassie and I have done a lot of research on mammoth caves and other parks. And I had never heard of this legend.

• 59:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  Same.

• 59:17Danielle LaRock?

  So you learn something new all the time. And sometimes children open your eyes to it. Even if you have to have mom bitchy voice, I can just be like, what? That's my...

• 59:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  What is it?

• 59:29Danielle LaRock?

  What is it?

• 59:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  You're embarrassing me. What?

• 59:32Danielle LaRock?

  You, I think it's like you keep your teeth closed.

• 59:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  What?

• 59:37Danielle LaRock?

  What?

• 59:40Danielle LaRock?

  I feel like I got, I got it down. What? Um, okay. And I don't even have kids. It's just natural. Uh, okay. My last story is titled, I should have just signed up for a marathon.

• 59:53Danielle LaRock?

  Hi ladies. I so enjoy listening to your podcast. You're a staple for my long drives into the back country to go adventuring. In fact, I found you after the very breakup this trail tale is about, which I guess is as good as a lead in as any. As I said, I went through a tough breakup with the aforementioned ex who I hiked with. We'll call him the king of all assholes. To keep it short. We, we had been together for five years. He cheated on me emotionally and physically said some awful things comparing me to the friend. Yes, she was a mutual friend. He cheated on me with calling me unattractive because I don't wear makeup and unmotivated because I don't want to be a C level executive. You know, the typical land you in therapy kind of breakup. Such a delight.

• 1:00:39Danielle LaRock?

  God. And it all comes back to the audacity.

• 1:00:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  The audacity. It reminds, if for you, you're watching Love is, we're watching Love is Blind right now.

• 1:00:50Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, yes, we are.

• 1:00:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  One guy who I don't even know what he does for a job and he talks to a literal doctor and it's like, why don't you do Pilates every day?

• 1:00:59Danielle LaRock?

  And uh, she's an internal medicine doctor.

• 1:01:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  An internal medicine doctor who I have personally had internal, internal medicine doctors and they're literally like some of the smartest people that exist.

• 1:01:11Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  And.

• 1:01:12Danielle LaRock?

  And she's so kind and nice.

• 1:01:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  Beautiful. She's got it together. She.

• 1:01:18Danielle LaRock?

  Her house? Have you, did you see her house?

• 1:01:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  Amazing. Yes. And then he, and it turns out he's like, I just saw he's being sued for like over $60,000 in debt and he, I don't even know what he does for a job. You know, he is like, and he has the audacity to put this woman down and say that he's interested in another woman over her. And I'm like, that's just the vibes that this, this guy is giving.

• 1:01:48Danielle LaRock?

  The king of all assholes is giving. Yeah. I saw somebody compare him to Bilbo Baggins and I can't.

• 1:01:56Danielle LaRock?

  They're like, this Bilbo Baggins looking fuck.

• 1:02:00Danielle LaRock?

  Like, okay, yep. Nothing against Bilbo Baggins, but.

• 1:02:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  Uh, but you have a literal, beautiful, internal medicine doctor. Who is it? The, I love, I also love the friend on, if people aren't watching Love is Blind and don't know what we're talking about, I'm sorry. But there's one friend, I think her name's Anna, and she just goes up to him and she's like, you think you're ever gonna find another hot doctor?

• 1:02:23Danielle LaRock?

  I think it's Amber. Is it Amber?

• 1:02:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  Is it Amber?

• 1:02:26Danielle LaRock?

  She's the blonde.

• 1:02:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, she's the blonde and she's just like, she's just such a girl's girl and I'm here for it so hard.

• 1:02:33Danielle LaRock?

  Legitimately laughed in his face.

• 1:02:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:36Danielle LaRock?

  When she said it too. And then kinda like flipped her hair and walked away.

• 1:02:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  You think you're ever gonna get better?

• 1:02:43Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know. I don't know what her name is, but I agree. It starts with an A.

• 1:02:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's the best friend we all need.

• 1:02:48Danielle LaRock?

  Yep. Okay, so we can envision this man.

• 1:02:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  We know exactly this kinda guy and we are on your side already.

• 1:02:57Danielle LaRock?

  No questions. And a friend? Don't even get me started.

• 1:03:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  Uh.

• 1:03:02Danielle LaRock?

  Don't even get me started. Okay.

• 1:03:05Danielle LaRock?

  So I threw myself into therapy like a fat kid on cake. And as with most therapy, it started me down the whole, why did I do that? Self-reflection journey. And for some godforsaken reason, as part of this journey, I suddenly felt the need to test my metal by doing a 10-mile sunset hike. Just me and my faithful dog Apollo, five miles in, watched the sun go down over the beautiful Estes Park, Colorado, with gorgeous views of Rocky Mountain National Park. And then five miles out, alone, in the dark, easy peasy. Now, Apollo is a 100-pound Rhodesian Ridgeback, the dogs that were bred to hunt lions. However, my 100-pound hound is afraid of chickens.

• 1:03:44Danielle LaRock?

  So unless something has gone catastrophically wrong, there is no lion hunting in his future, or mine for that matter. That being said, while he may be afraid of everything from hardwood floors to cinder blocks, don't even ask. It also turns out that he might be smarter than me. While I was feeling whimsically empowered and fiercely independent, sitting on a mountain top, watching the sun drop below the horizon, Apollo started to get antsy. His behavior was very clearly telling me, Mom, it's getting Dark and it's time to go. But was this tough woman going to be turned away by a little dark? Absolutely not. So I stubbornly stayed in that spot, eating gummy worms until the last ray dropped behind the distant mountains.

• 1:04:27Danielle LaRock?

  Finally, with the sun officially set and my gummy worms gone, I stood up and stretched, surveying the land below me like I was fucking Mufasa. To Apollo's relief, we started our return hike. I was feeling good, confident, fearless. It grew darker in the pine forest around me and I plucked out my headlamp and carried on like a boss because I'm an independent woman and I'm not afraid of the dark. Maury Povich meme. That was a lie.

• 1:04:56Danielle LaRock?

  Turns out that I'm not afraid of the sort of dark, but the true dark, the dark, dark? Yeah, that's scary as fuck. And and the first time Apollo froze and looked off the trail into the dark woods like he saw something was when I realized my metal was severely lacking. And I had made a ridiculously stupid decision. The worst part about it was that I had this very irrational, if I can't see it, it can't see me childlike response that made me not want to look to see what he was seeing. That's a Cassie move, not to say you're childlike.

• 1:05:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, I was thinking the exact same thing. It's like when I put earplugs in when I sleep at night when I'm camping. It's like, if I can't hear it, it's not my problem.

• 1:05:41Danielle LaRock?

  We're on opposite ends of the spectrum with that. However, I am neither a child nor irrational, though this jaunt through the woods might suggest otherwise. So I stopped, mustered up my courage and scanned the woods where Apollo was looking. Nothing, yet he kept peering into the dark, seeing, smelling and sensing something I clearly couldn't. Chaska does that all the time and I know it's a dog thing clearly. But there's and usually it's not very alarming. Like I don't feel disturbed by it or creeped out, but when they stop and sniff the air in a certain direction, a very specific direction that indicates something's going on over there.

• 1:06:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, Tucker does that too.

• 1:06:25Danielle LaRock?

  I can see with my nose and there's something over there.

• 1:06:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  Ever she does something, she does kind of the opposite. She's, I, she's still getting her courage outside. And I mean, she thrives out there, but at nighttime, if Tucker isn't with her, when I let them out to go to the bathroom, she walks out the door barking to like scare anything off before she gets there.

• 1:06:52Danielle LaRock?

  Smart.

• 1:06:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:54Danielle LaRock?

  That's really intelligent.

• 1:06:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, she does it. Not every time, but a lot of times when it's dark, she runs out barking and then she like looks around and then goes to the bathroom.

• 1:07:06Danielle LaRock?

  I always knew I liked her.

• 1:07:11Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. So Apollo's looking into the woods, sensing something she couldn't. Don't worry, that wasn't remotely unsettling and it wasn't unsettling every single time he did it after that. Nope, not at all.

• 1:07:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, we believe you.

• 1:07:24Danielle LaRock?

  At this point, I decided I needed to start making noise. So I had a whole conversation with Apollo for four miles. I talked, he listened, we bashed my ex. It was great.

• 1:07:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  Therapy.

• 1:07:36Danielle LaRock?

  And that's therapy.

• 1:07:39Danielle LaRock?

  Right up until Apollo abruptly halted, did an about face and raced back to stand behind me. Lion hunter, indeed. Since I was now solely in charge of our safety, I picked my head up and scanned the woods. A glowing pair of eyes stared right back at me, no more than 20 feet away. Then a second pair of eyes and a third. I grabbed my bear spray, waved my trekking poles and told them all about my ex at an unreasonably high volume. They didn't move, they didn't blink, they just kept staring and staring. After a weirdly long standoff where I explained loudly to the eyes why my ex was bad in bed.

• 1:08:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  I wish I was on the hike with you.

• 1:08:27Danielle LaRock?

  Oh my god, I wish I was nearby, yeah.

• 1:08:33Danielle LaRock?

  I want the tea.

• 1:08:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  Same.

• 1:08:36Danielle LaRock?

  The creatures remained eerily still. And then I realized the reason they hadn't moved was because they were circular reflectors that someone had put on fence posts in the middle of the woods. Why on earth a fence post in the middle of the woods had reflectors on it is beyond me. Nerves on high alert, I let us pass the eyes, then stepped aside so Apollo could go first. He politely declined. So I scurried back to the car with my tail between my legs and my dog right behind me and now clear and new clarity on my ex. He was an asshole, the king of them, as we have already established, even Apollo agreed. With that, I would like to remind your readers that if you ever decide that you need to

• 1:09:18Danielle LaRock?

  test your metal after a bad breakup, consider signing up for a marathon or taking a kickbox or taking a kickboxing class. Don't go hiking in the woods alone at night. Seriously, what was I thinking? And find yourself a faithful pup to watch your back, even if they are only behind you because they are too scared to go first.

• 1:09:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  You know, you say that you shouldn't do this, but it sounds like, one, you got some clarity on the situation while you were out there. And two, you got some much needed things said out into the air where no one else could hear it.

• 1:09:51Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  So I kind of feel like maybe you should go.

• 1:09:56Danielle LaRock?

  You can do that, you can also do a rage room.

• 1:09:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hmm, rage rooms.

• 1:10:01Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I've never done one, but I feel like.

• 1:10:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  They would be fun.

• 1:10:06Danielle LaRock?

  I feel like I'm surprising myself by saying I have never done one because it feels therapeutic on multiple levels. But the problem is, my problem particularly is I get so angry so quickly and then it fades quickly. Fast to light, quick to burn. So I would be furious scheduling an appointment to a rage room. But by the time I actually drove there.

• 1:10:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  You'd be good.

• 1:10:36Danielle LaRock?

  I don't even know if I need to do this.

• 1:10:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Take him over it.

• 1:10:38Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. Nothing matters, so who cares?

• 1:10:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's the spirit.

• 1:10:45Danielle LaRock?

  Great. Well, those are all the stories that we have for you today, except as always, another reminder, if you are a Patreon or Apple subscriber, you got two more coming at you. We get bonus stories. We share one each for our subscription platforms and mine is titled, "Drugging Myself on Dramamine."

• 1:11:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hmm, fun. Mine is Signs From My Fur Baby.

• 1:11:10Danielle LaRock?

  All right. Well, if you want to hear those, we'll catch you on subscription platforms. If not, we'll catch you next week.

• 1:11:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. In the meantime, enjoy the view.

• 1:11:20Danielle LaRock?

  But watch your back.

• 1:11:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bye, guys.

• 1:11:25Danielle LaRock?

  Thanks for joining us for another episode. We hope you learned something new and have another location to put on your list. If you want more NPAD content, make sure to follow along with our adventures on all socials at National Park After Dark. For more stories just like this one with the added bonus of exclusive content, you can join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions. If you prefer to watch our episodes, head over to our YouTube channel. And if you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe on your favorite listening platform.

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