#1001 Uncle Rockstar On The Cypherpunk Movement

Uncle Rockstar is a Core Contributor at BTCPay Server and the VP of Engineering at Strike. In this conversation, we talk about the cypherpunk movement that lead to Bitcoin's creation, developing on the Bitcoin network, and building towards the future. ======================= Brave Wallet is the first secure crypto wallet built natively in a web3 crypto browser. No extension required. Store, manage, and grow your portfolio, get NFT & multi-chain support, and more. Download the Brave privacy browser at brave.com/Pomp, and click the wallet icon to get started. ======================= Today’s episode is sponsored by Abra. Based in California and backed by top VC firms, Abra is an all-in-one simple, secure app that allows you to trade over 110 cryptocurrencies, get 0% interest loans using your crypto as collateral and earn interest with up to 14% APY on stablecoins and 8.15% APY on Bitcoin. Join nearly 2 million users by downloading Abra from the Google Play or Apple App store. If you download the app today, you will get $15 in free crypto once you fund your account. You came, you invested — now conquer. =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Uncle Rockstar is a core contributor to BTC Pay Server and the VP of Engineering at Strike. In this conversation, we talk about everything from the CypherPunks to Bitcoin to development in a decentralized environment. I really enjoyed this conversation and I hope you guys enjoy it as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I first want to talk about our sponsors. This episode is brought to you by BlockFi. BlockFi provides financial products for crypto investors. Those products include the BlockFi Wallet, a US dollar loan collateralized by your crypto, and a no-fee trading product. BlockFi also released the world's first crypto rewards credit card. It's a Visa credit card that gives you crypto back as your rewards

• 0:47Anthony Pompliano?

  instead of cash back or airline miles. They recently introduced Rewards Flex, so customers choose which crypto assets they receive from their credit card rewards from the BlockFi Rewards credit card. For people in the US who own or are interested in owning crypto or stacking more sats, the BlockFi Rewards credit card provides the easiest way to earn more crypto because you earn 1.5% back in crypto on every single purchase and you have no annual fee. I'm an investor in the business and a very, very happy user. The BlockFi Rewards credit card is the easiest way to earn crypto. For a limited time, when you sign up using my link, blockfi.com/pompcc, you will get $75 back in crypto on your first swipe. Use

• 1:28Anthony Pompliano?

  your everyday spending to diversify your crypto portfolio. I've got the credit card, I love it, and I think you will too. Head on over to blockfi.com/pompcc today. Today's episode is brought to you by Brave. Brave Wallet is the first secure crypto wallet built natively in a Web3 crypto browser. What's Web3? Web3 is freedom from big tech and Wall Street. More control and better privacy. But there's a weak point in Web3, your crypto wallet. Most wallets are browser extensions, a Web2 technology. That means the same old risks, app spoofing, phishing scams, and theft. Brave Wallet is different. Brave Wallet is the first secure wallet built natively in a Web3 crypto browser. No extension required.

• 2:10Anthony Pompliano?

  With Brave Wallet, you can buy, store, send, and swap assets, manage NFTs, even connect other wallets and dApps, all from the security of the best privacy browser on the market. Whether you're new to crypto or a seasoned pro, it's time to ditch those risky extensions. It's time to switch to Brave Wallet. Download Brave at brave.com/pomp and click the Wallet icon to get started. Again, go download Brave at brave.com/pomp and click the Wallet icon to get started. Today's episode is sponsored by Abra. They're based in California and they're backed by top VC firms. Abra is an all-in-one, simple, secure app that allows you to trade over 110 cryptocurrencies, get 0% interest loans using your crypto as collateral,

• 2:50Anthony Pompliano?

  and earn interest with up to 13% APY on stablecoins and 7.15% APY on Bitcoin. You can join nearly 2 million users by downloading Abra from the Google Play or Apple App Store. If you download the app today, you will get $15 in free crypto once you fund your account. You came, you invested, now conquer. Abra, conquer crypto. Go check it out today.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 3:38Anthony Pompliano?

  What's going on, man? How are you? Hey, Pomp. I'm good. How are you? I'm doing fantastic. I'm so excited to talk to you. Uh, let's just jump right in. I think that this idea of open source software is so integral to Bitcoin and so many people don't understand why open source software is important. Can you help us understand from more of like a cypherpunk standpoint, the, uh, the essential

• 4:04Speaker 02

  Aspects of open source software? Sure, I mean, but we're really starting with hard questions right away. I was hoping, especially, man, like, hearing Jacob, I even wanted to trade in my time to, like, hear him more. And, you know, about the whole pomp brothers, how to catch lizards. I mean, it's easy for you, you have two brothers, so that sideways is easier, but yeah. When an 11-year-old can teach you things like how to catch a lizard, then you just got to sit back and listen. Hey, and then Paulina is also jumping in, and you have four-day work week. Yeah, easy for you and me, man. Really, like, you and me are on four-hour work week, but let's, uh, let's, let's keep with, like, work hard.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  As for open source software, why it's so important, it's because we wouldn't have Bitcoin if it wasn't for open source. Because, uh, the only way you can, um, come up with such complex system is to build on top of each other's work. And really Satoshi was building on the work of other people, like Adam Back. So, uh, really, when it comes to cypherpunks and what they understood, they understood that, uh, in digital age, in information age, uh, privacy is important to, um, keep the system going. And, uh, as complexity of the world arises, like, we need more robust, more scalable systems

• 5:32Speaker 02

  that, um, can facilitate further development. And I'm telling you, like, closed source will only get us so far. I mean, you look at the fact that, uh, you know, what happened with, uh, operating systems? Linux is the most used system, not because, I don't know, there are some other factors in place. But because because simply it's open source, it allowed the people all around the world to collaborate and get ahead of Microsoft Windows, which was closed source.

• 6:07Anthony Pompliano?

  So when you think about this open source software, Cypherpunks have been working on variations of open source software of various technical innovations and inventions for decades now. Talk to us about that movement and kind of what the importance of it has been to computing in general, but then also the creation of Bitcoin in 2008, 2009.

• 6:28Speaker 02

  Well, it's all about that early realization Cypherpunks had is that we need to utilize technology to preserve individual freedom and not only preserve it, like improve individual freedom because if we go in the direction of centralized systems and systems controlled by big entities, whether they're governments or big corporations like those faceless entities, we will eventually lose all our rights because those big systems will continue being threatened by, you know, oh, this individual can do this, this individual can do that, so let's make sure they don't have power to do it.

• 7:11Speaker 02

  And that's just not not the future I or I assume you want to live in. I mean, the Cypherpunk is a play of a cipher and cyberpunk and cyberpunk is well known. It's like high technology, low quality of life. So really, to me, it's it's one of the most important movements in last, what is now like four decades? And we'll just keep keep pushing, keep fighting, keep producing technology like Bitcoin that will further, you know, fortify individual rights and expand them because the more power you give to individual, to, to, you know, humans, you will

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Be able to really leverage that human ingenuity and then make great things happen. So.

• 8:02Anthony Pompliano?

  When you think about the cypherpunk movement, what are some of the lessons that we've learned along the way? Obviously, open source software and the importance of it is a key one. What else would you say are key lessons from the movement?

• 8:15Speaker 02

  Well, I would question if we as a society have learned much because as individuals, I I think when you look back at Cypherpunk's manifesto that you can read from 1992, you will see how correct it was. I mean, it's just erosion of individual rights. I mean, I mean, you still have it. You still have this push, like government is becoming bigger and bigger. Like as immigrant to US, that's one of the things that I've been observing is like US has been so successful because politicians could and government could never catch up.

• 8:57Speaker 02

  Like economy was growing faster than a big, you know, Washington political apparatus was like the rate of growth of economy was higher than the rate of growth of government, but that's actually like changing. So it is really important that we we continue pushing this technology that empowers individuals to ensure that we do not end up in this big government 100% regulated situation because they pretend they have answers. I mean, they don't. And I mean, we saw also with some of the politicians first embracing Bitcoin,

• 9:40Speaker 02

  then rug pulling us. So yeah, I hope we change that with technology and then seeing lately the push with you. Yesterday you had Bruce Fenton, my fellow cypherpunk. It's great to see him running full support. And then Cynthia Loomis, Senator, the bill that she has proposed is amazing. So yeah, let's, let's keep pushing. Let's keep adding to that light of individual freedom.

• 10:09Anthony Pompliano?

  When we think about the cypherpunk movement, there's, I think, a thought process of like, this is a thing of the past. It's a movement that was really embodied by people who have grown older. Unfortunately, a couple of people who have passed away. Talk to me about, is the cypherpunk movement alive and well today? And what is kind of the current state of it? How can somebody start to participate? Like, what is kind of the here and now of that movement?

• 10:37Speaker 02

  Well, I would argue that cypherpunk movement is stronger than ever. It's really like the, the people that you mentioned that were active in 1990s. I really break it down as a three phases of, three phases of cypherpunk movement. Like, most of the cypherpunks of 90s were very defensive and they were focused on really introducing cryptography into everyday life and then fighting that good fight where cryptography was classified as a munition. So it was like export of cryptography was restricted. Like that victory was resounding. We use cryptography now daily without any kind of trouble. So, so yeah, that fight was won.

• 11:21Speaker 02

  But then you, you had the, the second phase of the movement, more in like 2000s up to middle of 2010s with cypherpunks that were way more offensive. And that's the group where you, you can look at the people like Julian Assange and Edward Snowden, who were really using cryptography and, and teachings of cypherpunks in an offensive way. They were like disseminating information to show, yeah, the simply the bad things that government does. And finally, like this third phase where I also see my, my participation in is like, really, we're taking the best.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  Of both defense and offense and applying it into everyday life through technologies like Bitcoin. So yeah, that's that's a reason why I am on this show as well. Like it's not only about us who are currently in the movement. It's about inspiring other people, people and you know, younger generation like Jacob to join us, you know, shadowy super coders and do the good work. Because when it comes to that, you know the saying cypherpunks write code, right?

• 12:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Yes, I do know that.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I, I think that one is unfortunate saying because to me really cypherpunks control information. And I would really call you Palm Cypherpunk because the way like you control and distribute information is amazing. Like this show, you're streaming it, you're impacting people, not only like in US or like you're impacting people all around the world. And for cypherpunks, it's all about how can we structure and control information in such a ways that we produce the most positive outcomes, that we can produce systems that process the optimum amount of information without breaking down.

• 13:18Anthony Pompliano?

  When you think about how somebody can transition to writing open source code or participating in these movements, talk to me about career development and like, what are the ways that people who are listening or watching this can get involved?

• 13:33Speaker 02

  Well, there are so many ways. And again, when we're talking about disappearance, I, I loved it because it's all about inspiring other people to join. Thanks to the power of internet, thanks to the power of open source, you don't now need to be, you know, engineer in Silicon Valley in order to work for hot startups anymore. You can really be not only in any part of US, you can be in any part of the world and it's all about connecting with people. I mean, how would guy like you and guy like me connect if it weren't for Bitcoin, first of all?

• 14:10Speaker 02

  So when it comes to career development and how to use open source for that, it's just find the project that really speaks to you, like a project that you use daily in your life and see how you can improve it. I mean, I'm biased because I am part of BTC Pay Server, but I invite anyone that wants to, you know, join great open source project to go to BTCPayServer.org or find us on Twitter, you know, just join the community and say, hey, I am good at this. I wanna help. And, you know, that's, that's the easiest way

• 14:50Speaker 02

  in. And if it's not BTC Pay Server, just find some other project you're, you know, on GitHub that you're interested in.

• 14:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Tell everyone about BTC Pay Server. Like, what is it and why is it so important?

• 15:02Speaker 02

  Well, BTC Pay Server is one of the most active open source projects built on top of Bitcoin. And it's really, it's not really only a payment processor, it's like platform on top of which you can, it's like WordPress of Bitcoin. It really started as a response to what Bitpay was doing when it was deciding during SegWit2X drama, on which chain they will switch their merchants. And Nicholas Doryer, Emperor Nicholas, was having none

• 15:40Speaker 02

  of it. So he coded a plug and play replacement for Bitpay's API, named it BTC Pay Server, and really allowed merchants to bring up this instance of BTC Pay Server, bring up instance of Bitcoin Core Node, and be really self-reliant, self-hosted, sovereign, and validate their Bitcoin transactions for themselves. And this is what Bitcoin is all about. Like, when you're running Bitcoin Core Node, you are the one deciding what consensus rules you believe in and your value.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  Validating Bitcoin that you're receiving that that Bitcoin complies with the consensus rules you believe in and BTC Pay Server is really all in one solution that allows merchants to do this super easy and you know run their own shops, validate their Bitcoins, send their Bitcoins, do commerce without depending on any trusted third party.

• 16:46Anthony Pompliano?

  When you start to think about people who are engineers, what is the path that they can take to get involved? Whether it's through open source software, should they start there and start building and contributing and then eventually move into the space full time either through grants or kind of full time employment? Or what is the suggestion when you talk to young engineers?

• 17:05Speaker 02

  Well, when it comes to young engineers, they're really like to use the popular term nowadays, like a privileged, like if you're a great engineer, you have so much choice and it's all about making sure that you stay on a project that like you involve yourself with a project that it really motivates you and keeps you going so that you don't need to look if it's four hour work week or it's a four day work week. It's like you're working on a project and you're not stopping because it's so inspiring. And that's really what I saw in strike. Like we

• 17:43Speaker 02

  were so lucky to have that we have a leader and founder like Jack that inspires engineers to join us all around the world. But that's that's my biggest advice for young engineers. If you're a good young engineer, just find the project that speaks to you and stick with it. And when it no longer, you know, speaks to you, find another project. You're great. It's more for people that are looking into like learning to code or they're non engineers. And yeah, learning to code, that one is very simple. It's like give it a try for a year and really focus on

• 18:22Speaker 02

  building easy stuff that solves your everyday problems and find the group where you where there are other developers you can look look up to. I mean, you know, if if you like my work, let me know. I mean, maybe maybe I can help you out with reviewing your code, especially If you join BTC Pay server. And then the important thing is also not to get discouraged if after a year or two. Really, programming and engineering is not your thing. Like, there are so many ways to contribute. You just need to figure out, like, what is your superpower? And that's where I'm curious when it comes to you, Pom. Like, if I ask you, what is your superpower? What would you say?

• 19:06Anthony Pompliano?

  I just don't stop. That's it. Whatever I want to do, I just keep going. And I think that most people, they end up taking their foot off the gas. And they do it for one of two reasons. Either they start something and as they get going, they get frustrated. It's kind of the depths of despair and they give up and they walk away. And that could be building a company, that could be, you know, investing, that could be doing content on the internet. Whatever the thing is, they give up early on. Or the second thing, and actually probably the more dangerous thing, is as they start to see success, they fool themselves and they let off the gas. And they think they can kind of coast at that point.

• 19:46Anthony Pompliano?

  But if you, if you think about it, whether it's sports, whether it's the highest levels of business, whatever, the best in the world at something, they basically never take their foot off the gas. And if anything, they become more obsessed the further that they get. And I think that's probably one of the biggest things I see is, and a bunch of different things I do. There's a lot of people who either just quit in the beginning or they start to coast once they think that, you know, they've quote unquote made it or had any level of success.

• 20:17Speaker 02

  So, yeah, it's like tenacity, right? It's like intensity. I, yeah, I would confirm it. I mean, I, you know, the whole discussion about Bitcoin community, who is Bitcoin?

• 20:30Speaker 02

  Who is shitcoiner, right?

• 20:34Speaker 02

  I always like tell people how it's about proof of work. It's about how much contribution you have. How much you have contributed to the success of Bitcoin? And I don't see you as much on CNBC lately, but I'm telling you like some of your.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  Some of your interviews on CNBC, man, like. Thank you so much for doing that. It's just pushing forward the Bitcoin and then dumping on people who are like, oh, Bitcoin is evil.

• 21:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, look, it it's a there's a time and a place for everything, right? And like frankly, um, back in 2018 or whatever, when I first started doing it. There was a little bit of I probably was the the whipping boy. Like I was the one who was dumb and naive enough to go on there, prices falling and they keep yelling and. Like, let's do it again, right? And there's a lot of folks who frankly had been in the industry longer than I had. Who they probably weren't as excited about going on, right? It's like, oh, what they only want me to go on when the price is down. But over time, I think what you realize is like. Just hearing me over and over and over again, uh, only does us so much good. Like, it's actually important that we can get more people on there.

• 21:46Anthony Pompliano?

  And I've, you know, introduced them to a ton of people in the community and said, hey, you should bring these people on. These people have a message. Some of them, you know, uh, are coming at it from a different experience. Some of them have a unique insight, some of them. You know, are able to present it differently, whatever it is, but like we need as many people as possible. In the mainstream media, uh, sharing the talking points, because in some way.

• 22:12Anthony Pompliano?

  You know, you have to fight the FUD and kind of the negative comments. Not with kind of bombastic punches back. I don't think it, you know, when somebody slings mud, slinging mud back doesn't do much. It's just a mud fight and, you know, what's the the saying? Never argue with a fool because someone from far away can't tell who's who. Instead, I think that we've got a number of people in the Bitcoin community who are able to go on and present a very factual. Information, deliver it with confidence and inform people. And the beauty of Bitcoin is that Bitcoin has one advantage over all of the critics. That Bitcoin has truth on its side. And if you simply state what Bitcoin is doing, what are the data points?

• 22:57Anthony Pompliano?

  It's a transparent system that no one owns, that no one controls. And so that transparency ends up being the best disinfectant when it comes to legacy system or many market participants. And I think that, you know, one of the things that cracks me up is usually the people who act in a zero sum way, those are the people to be the most nervous around. And if you go throughout the Bitcoin community, the people who have had very long careers in this industry, they're very positive some. They're here to help other people. They want to see other people be successful. And, you know, there's this belief that as long as Bitcoin succeeds, we're all going to succeed.

• 23:40Anthony Pompliano?

  But there are, you know, plenty of new people who show up and they have very much kind of that, you know, zero sum mindset and they attack people and they do all this stuff. And over time, I think you just learn, hey, that those people will eventually get on board, right? That they'll figure out kind of what the, what the cultural, you know, kind of right way to act is. And it's very much a positive sum. We can lift everyone up and we can build something that ends up impacting billions of people, which is the reason why we're all here.

• 24:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it is about that, like not slinging mud back, especially like someone like you who is in position of, of power. I mean, that's also what I try to tell all the people, the people I interact with in Bitcoin community. At the end of the day, it's all about proof of work. You can't keep people, an expectation that the trash and waste will be a zero percent. As long as trash and waste is, is a minority, it's like 20%, 30%. I mean, someone is really super successful. And it's about that us as a community using our differences towards the strength. I mean, I just look at people you had yesterday with Dylan, our rising star in Bitcoin, yeah,

• 24:51Speaker 02

  with his charts and then Bruce, then Nick. Amazing, yeah, people. And then even, I'm telling you, even people that are on Twitter and they're toxic and doing. All the yelling at other people. I appreciate them as well, as long as their impact is is towards pushing Bitcoin forward and focusing really on Richard hearts of the world that are rock pulling. But yeah, we got Richard out of Bitcoin. That's what matters.

• 25:19Anthony Pompliano?

  The the other thing that I would say is you recently went to the Oslo Freedom Forum. And what's unique in that is the Human Rights Foundation has a very big part of of setting that up. Talk to me about Bitcoin's role in Oslo Freedom Forum, human rights and and kind of the global audience.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  No, man, it was amazing. It was truly amazing. And I'm so thankful to have someone like Alex Gladstein in my life. And having him as my mastermind partner, we have such a such interesting sessions. But here is a great story, actually. Gary Kasparov, like famous chess player. I mean, he was the best chess player in the history, still is, until Magnus finishes his career. But Gary was talking about how Alex Gladstein, he really identified Bitcoin early on. And he was coming to HRF and trying to explain within HRF how Bitcoin is so useful

• 26:19Speaker 02

  for all like humanitarian purposes. And Gary is saying like, we would listen to him and then we would laugh, you know, laugh our asses off, essentially. He was telling this story to me and a bunch of other Bitcoiners I brought into the circle. And yeah, we would be like, Alex, I mean Bitcoin, come on, like, what are you talking about? Well, as you said, yeah, they were calling you on CNBC two years ago, three years ago, it's like price was falling and people would be like laughing at you. Same thing with Alex. Well, nobody's laughing now, man. It's like the influence of Bitcoiners, like, people see that we have this track record of being right. We are on the right path.

• 27:02Speaker 02

  And you saw that Gary even signed that a letter. There were 21 human right activists. They take that took aim at all those like privileged. Critics in in Congress and explained how Bitcoin is is forced for good way more than it's supposed like force for evil with all the boiling oceans and mining fud.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  So I think it's all about that. It's all about continuing to spread the message to show continuing to show utility of Bitcoin, which is something that I did at my workshop. I highlighted all the all the usages of BTC pay server for crowdfunding. You had a feminist coalition Nigeria for anyone that wants to research after this talk like just look up and SARS campaign in Nigeria. BTC pay server was used to crowdfund to raise funds after their own government Nigerian government like blocked traditional banking account banking accounts for for them. So yeah,

• 28:06Speaker 02

  I I'm excited. I'm excited for all the good that Bitcoin will keep doing when it comes to human rights and it's all about that. Keep expanding our individual rights and pushing forward.

• 28:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Is there one thing that you would point to that's like the most important problem now that people should focus their energy on or pay more attention to?

• 28:28Speaker 02

  Not really. I mean, I I would really anyone that's not into Bitcoin, obviously, our priority number one is to get into Bitcoin, to look at the movement and see who is the person from the Bitcoin movement that speaks to you the most. I mean, if it's pomp, then find, yeah, read more of his stuff, look at his seminars, like look at his content, dig deeper, find another person. I people that I wanna I particularly enjoy consuming their content are Parker Lewis, Mayor Parker Lewis, they're GG, Odell has great content. So just find your entrance into Bitcoin.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  And then, once you're in Bitcoin, just listen to listen to yourself, listen to the inner voice, like, how can you best contribute to the Bitcoin? I knew for the longest time that I should be using my coding skills for good of the Bitcoin, but I was too busy arguing with trolls. On Bitcoin Talk and Reddit. So I wasted a bunch of time. But once I started listening to that inner voice and started contributing to the code, I helped Nicholas build BTC Pay Server. I helped Jack build up Strike. So it's individual. Each one of us has our own superpower and we just need to stay in our lane, focus on what we are good at and support fellow Bitcoiners.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  And you know, if they start getting out of their lane or start struggling, we'll, you know, look to them, support them the best we can and keep going forward.

• 30:07Anthony Pompliano?

  I, I love it. Where can we send people to learn more about BTC Pay Server, Strike, or find you on the internet?

• 30:14Speaker 02

  Well, you just go with Rockstar and I am number one Rockstar on Twitter. So yeah, Uncle Rockstar. And from there you can jump onto Twitter BTC Pay Server. Yeah. And then you have the link to Strike as well. You have link to Telegram. Reach out. Let's make a shadowy supercoater out of you as well. And yeah, let's, let's do this together.

• 30:38Anthony Pompliano?

  My friend, I appreciate everything you're doing. Thank you so much for all the hard work, both on the open source software, the hard work at Strike, pushing forward the conversation.

• 30:49Anthony Pompliano?

  And everyone also is complimentary of your amazing thumbnail and background here, which I know that didn't exactly take, take a little bit of time. So thank you for coming on Uncle Rockstar and we'll definitely have to have you come back at some point.

• 31:05Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me. Get more digital identities, man. Like not all the Doxt people. We'll need them once they start hunting down us Bitcoiners.

• 31:13Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Sounds good. We'll see you later. Bye. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you guys enjoyed this one. Make sure you subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. And if you're looking to try to transition to get a new job in the Bitcoin or crypto industry, we've got you covered. Head over to pompscryptocourse.com. We've developed a curriculum with the top teams across the industry. It's a three-week intensive training program with over 50 events packed into that three-week time period. Go to pompscryptocourse.com to learn more and I'll meet you guys for the next episode.