Missy Robbins on Michelin Stars, Salt v Sugar, and Her Billions Cameo

Hosts Adrienne Cheatham and Joe Flamm are joined by Missy Robbins (Lilia, Missi) to talk about her ascent into becoming a Michelin star chef and James Beard Award winner. Plus, we cover: The importance of a caring mentor and impact of Tony Manuano (Spiaggia, Top Chef Masters) on Missy and Joe’s careers Fork It or Forget It: Seafood and cheese Missy's journey through various kitchens and her approach to restaurant design One-Star Guest Behavior: booking a small party and showing up with a large group Missy’s nightmare moment on Top Chef masters (watch your fingers) Walk-In Confessions: Switching out sugar for salt on dessert Missy's cameo on the TV show Billions and her thoughts on acting. Follow the show: @chefscutpod Follow Missy: @missyarobbins Follow Adrienne: @chefadriennecheatham Follow Joe: @insta.flamm

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  Hello, everybody. And Joe, it is so good to see you. Welcome back to another episode of The Chef's Cut.

• 0:08Joe Flamm?

  So happy to be back, Age. And this week, we are joined by someone near and dear to me. I know someone who you've looked up to for a long time. But we have James Beard Award winner, Food and Wine Best New Chef, owner of three restaurants, writer of two cookbooks, my great friend, my culinary older sister, the great Missy Robbins.

• 0:30Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, man, she is an icon in this industry, in New York, in food in general.

• 0:35Joe Flamm?

  What else do we have on tap with this one today, Age?

• 0:38Adrienne Cheatham?

  Well, this week with Missy, we're going to talk about a mentor that you two share, Tony Manuano. We're going to get controversial and talk about cheese with seafood, restaurant patrons that don't like the decor, and salty grapefruit. We'll also get to a little info on Missy's cameo on Billions, because I was so pumped to see her on that. I'm so excited that they chose her as a chef to do that appearance on Billions.

• 1:03Joe Flamm?

  All right, let's get into it.

• 1:05Adrienne Cheatham?

  Chef, thank you so much for joining us today.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. Thank you for having me. This is like the highlight of my week, for sure. Maybe my month. Possibly my year.

• 1:14Joe Flamm?

  Wow.

• 1:15Adrienne Cheatham?

  We gotta hang out more often.

• 1:16Joe Flamm?

  I don't, I don't believe that, but I love it. But I don't know, I've seen you this year. We've hung out. We've had fun.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  We have. I don't remember when the last time I saw you was, but, oh, we went to Italy.

• 1:26Joe Flamm?

  We were in Milan.

• 1:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, we went to Milan. That's right. Someone recently just asked me if I was opening a fine dining restaurant because of all the fine dining we did in Milan. They're like, she must be opening something like, super fancy, and that's why she's in Milan, going to fancy restaurants. And I was like, no, we were just celebrating a 71st birthday.

• 1:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, nice.

• 1:47Joe Flamm?

  We were just celebrating our fancy friend, Tony.

• 1:50Speaker 02

  Do you think he's fancier than I am?

• 1:52Joe Flamm?

  Uh, yeah, because I did an event with him in Rockford the other day, and he was wearing Ferragamo sneakers.

• 1:57Speaker 02

  Oh, always. Always.

• 1:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, he's super fancy.

• 2:00Speaker 02

  But I wear Hogan sneakers.

• 2:02Joe Flamm?

  That's true. And I didn't know what those were, and you had to take me to the Hogan store in Milan.

• 2:06Speaker 02

  And then you understood, right?

• 2:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, you have to take me one day. I don't know those.

• 2:10Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, they have fancy friends like I do.

• 2:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  Well, Missy, we are going to get started. One of the first things, actually, since you brought up Tony, I want to ask, because we're sponsored by San Pellegrino, and one thing we do is the San Pellegrino mentor moment. And both of you Came out of Spiacia. Both of you worked for Tony Montuano. You were both ECs at different points. Did you two overlap at all, or was Missy gone by the time you got there, Joe?

• 2:34Joe Flamm?

  So, Missy was gone. I met Missy having lunch at Via Corota in New York with Tony and Missy one time, and it started a great tradition of every time Tony and I went to New York together, I would get to go out to lunch with Missy and Tony. And they would take me to really cool restaurants that I normally wouldn't have access to. So, they took me to Via Corota. They took me to Marella one time.

• 2:55Speaker 02

  I thought our first lunch was at Marella.

• 2:58Joe Flamm?

  No, it was at Via Corota.

• 2:59Speaker 02

  Well, I've been telling this story wrong for many, many years.

• 3:03Joe Flamm?

  Marella was one I had to talk you guys into, because you guys were both like, "Oh, we've been there, but you should go. You should try the fusilli with the octopus." You know what I mean?

• 3:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  They're like, "Well, take me with you."

• 3:13Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, they were like it's... But it was always good, because, you know, they were like, "You should try that dish. It's important." I mean, not that it's good, but it's like, it is really good, and they both think it's really good. But it was like, the way, you know, Missy talked, Missy and like Tony talked about food, it like taught me so much of how to have conversations about food. They're like, "This dish is important." And like, what that meant, like, to me at the time, I was like, "Yeah, no doubt." You know what I mean? I have no idea what the fuck they're talking about. But, you know, it'd be like, sitting and having lunches with them and hearing them talk about food and business, it's just things they thought about. And, you know, and we talked about everything. We talked about life and relationships, and it was great. I loved it. And, you know, Missy and I became fast friends, and now she's like my culinary older sister. But yeah, so we

• 3:56Joe Flamm?

  worked there at very different times, but we came, uh, very good friends in that as both being, you know, children of Montuano.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  We call him Dad.

• 4:04Adrienne Cheatham?

  Was he like a mentor to you, Missy?

• 4:07Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, the biggest mentor of my life.

• 4:09Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's awesome.

• 4:09Speaker 02

  And it was, you know, I was in my, my early 30s when I worked with him, but it was like my first exec chef job, and, um, I, I wasn't an expert by any means in Italian food. I had worked in Italy for, you know, five months, six months, when, when I was in my 20s. And then I came back to New York and... I found this job with him and it was like a huge learning curve, like a really, really huge learning curve. And I was terrified. He'd be like, okay, it's time to change the menu. And we'd sit down and have a menu meeting and I'd be like, uh. And you know, it was before like Instagram and I just read a lot of cookbooks and talked to Tony a lot. Honestly,

• 4:49Speaker 02

  I think I learned a lot of the sort of essence of Italian food from him and just how you could elevate that to, you know, there were no Michelin stars then in Chicago, but you know, how you can elevate that to Michelin star styled cooking. Um, yeah. And he was also just a mentor in terms of, you know, he's the calmest person in a kitchen I've ever seen. And we would hang out at the pass and he's just calm. And he turned to me my second week and he said, you know, I think you might be a little abrasive for the Midwest. And I said, you've never heard that show?

• 5:25Joe Flamm?

  No.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. I was probably like ripping someone a new asshole. And he like turned to me and he goes, you're, you're a little abrasive for the Midwest. And I said, you know, we had a two hour conversation, Tony, on the phone and you really liked me and you hired me and this is who I am. And I'm so sorry, but I'm very East Coast. And I lasted another five years with him. And I think it speaks to like, you know, the success of so many people who've come out of his kitchens, Joe, Sarah.

• 5:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's amazing because there are so many chefs that don't really have that genealogy. Like you look at who came out of their kitchens and you're kind of like, here's this amazing chef with all this pedigree, Michelin stars, beard awards, all that. But where's their family tree? Like where are the chefs that came out of their system? Tony is one of the chefs that like, you know, who came out of his restaurant. And it seems like he teaches you guys so much about being a chef, running the business side, which a lot of chefs honestly don't do in New York.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  And a person. He just teaches you how to be a good human, too.

• 6:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  Now that he's in New York, I'm gonna hit him. I'm gonna stalk him until we become friends. I went out to dinner with Joe and Tony and Kathy and some other people when you guys were in New York years ago and we had a blast. And I was like, he just seems so down to earth and cool. And like, I want to spend time with him. But now that he's in New York, I'm gonna stalk him.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  You don't need to stalk him. Let's just go out to dinner.

• 6:48Adrienne Cheatham?

  Perfect. Done.

• 6:52Joe Flamm?

  Let's get into our first thing here, Miss, is we do fork it or forget it. So you gotta decide if it's something you like or something you don't like. And I got one for you today that Tony and I have argued about for the whole duration of our friendship.

• 7:06Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 7:07Joe Flamm?

  And I don't know that you and I have ever had this conversation. And it's not new, this is as old as time. But Tony and I, this is one thing we wildly disagree about. And it's the old Italian adage of no cheese with seafood.

• 7:21Speaker 02

  Oh. Yeah, no cheese with seafood.

• 7:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Forget it.

• 7:27Joe Flamm?

  I'm not with you. I'm not with you.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  Except, there's an exception to the rule.

• 7:31Joe Flamm?

  Okay.

• 7:32Speaker 02

  There are dishes in the south of Italy that do have cheese sometimes, you know? But generally speaking, I'm a no cheese seafood person. Like when people order like vongole and they want parm, no thank you.

• 7:48Joe Flamm?

  So this is how it came up the first time. We did Feast of Seven Fishes at Spia. In my family, we do a red clam sauce pasta that my grandma, my mom, they all make. Every Friday in Lent, it would be like clam sauce spaghetti. And we always ate that with parm. Always, always, always.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  But that's like your family. Like that's not traditional Italy. That's like South Side Joe.

• 8:12Joe Flamm?

  I'm not saying it's traditional. I'm just saying it's delicious.

• 8:15Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right, and so like I, I'm for it. I'm for it. I've had it in a few instances. Seafood with some form of, usually Parmesan, usually like a dry aged cheese. It's not like cheddar on a, you know, piece of snapper, don't get me wrong, but I don't see...

• 8:29Joe Flamm?

  You ever had a fish filet?

• 8:31Adrienne Cheatham?

  I mean, yeah.

• 8:31Joe Flamm?

  Slice of American on that bad boy?

• 8:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh my god. Fish filet with tartar sauce and American, hell yeah.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  Guys, no.

• 8:38Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes, Missy.

• 8:40Speaker 02

  No.

• 8:41Adrienne Cheatham?

  I'm forking it. I'm forking it.

• 8:44Speaker 02

  I'm forgetting it. I'm with, I'm with Tony on this one.

• 8:46Joe Flamm?

  I knew you were gonna be with Tony on this one. I knew there was no shot you were gonna have my back on this one.

• 8:51Speaker 02

  No, but I will eat like an anchovy with mozzarella.

• 8:57Adrienne Cheatham?

  Ah.

• 8:58Joe Flamm?

  Okay.

• 8:58Adrienne Cheatham?

  So you're, so you're forking it?

• 9:00Joe Flamm?

  So if it's a.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  In very specific instances.

• 9:03Adrienne Cheatham?

  I'm just saying what it sounds like.

• 9:04Joe Flamm?

  If it's a cured fish.

• 9:06Speaker 02

  If it's a cured fish that happens to be an anchovy or a sardine, then it can have cheese. But like, I'm not putting parm on like a fried sardine.

• 9:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right, I can see that.

• 9:19Speaker 02

  But I'm gonna eat mozzarella with sardines.

• 9:21Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I mean, like when you get like a squash blossom in Rome, a lot of times they put the little anchovy in there.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, so anchovies and mozzarella, anchovies and ricotta.

• 9:32Adrienne Cheatham?

  Sounds like there's a fork in it to me, miss. You can talk all the shit you want, but it sounds like there's a fork in it.

• 9:38Speaker 02

  I think there's like a half fork in it.

• 9:40Joe Flamm?

  But I remember Tony and I argued about this adamantly for a while. And then when we did the first one, he finally agreed to let me serve cheese on the side of the clam sauce spaghetti.

• 9:50Speaker 02

  No, he did not.

• 9:51Joe Flamm?

  Yes, he did. Yes, he did. He's like, he's like, I'm like, no, it's like really good with it. He's like, you can put it on the side.

• 9:57Speaker 02

  You know, Tony really loosened up after I left. Like, I remember even before you were there, like, I came, I was doing an event with Mindy Segal in Chicago. And I was using the kitchen, though I actually got kicked out of the pasta room because I was moving too slowly and the girls are like, we'll just do it for you. And I like literally got kicked out. They, they were like, move. And I was like, all right, you can make my ravioli. I don't care. But, uh, there were like all of a sudden like sous vide machines. And I was like, what in God's name is happening? In this kitchen? So he loosened up. He let the kids take over.

• 10:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  I like that. I like that a lot. I mean, you know, tradition has to change.

• 10:39Speaker 02

  I'm not good. I'm not good at that. I've never, you know, I've never used a sous vide, I've never used a circulator, ever.

• 10:44Joe Flamm?

  I believe that.

• 10:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  Ever? For anything?

• 10:46Speaker 02

  Ever. Nope.

• 10:47Adrienne Cheatham?

  Not even for like an egg?

• 10:49Speaker 02

  Nope. Ooh, I hate circulated eggs. Like definitely forget a circulated egg. Yeah. No, there's like when you do a like circulated scrambled like not scrambled but um who who is the three star Michelin chef in Chicago? What's his name? John Shields. John Shields from. Yeah, he and his wife were in my food and wine best new chefs class in like eighteen hundred. I remember it was like the first time I'd ever seen this done. He had eggs circulating for like in the Aspen kitchen for like, I don't know, twelve hours, something like that. And then he made this like crazy thing out of a whatever you call those. The ISI?

• 11:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, the ISI thing. I do have an ISI. I use it for one thing at Lilia, um sabayon. But um, no, I've no, I don't. But a circulated like poached egg, it gets this like weird. Am I allowed to say jizzy?

• 11:52Speaker 02

  It's got, you're gonna edit that out, right? No, absolutely not. It's got this like weird, weird consistency on the outside and I really like every time. I don't really go to brunch, but if I do and I get served an egg like that, I'm like, no, thank you.

• 12:10Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, you can definitely tell the difference.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  I used to tell people when they interviewed when I was at a Vochay, I'd be like, listen, you're not gonna see chemicals here. You're not gonna see a circulator here. I said, you're gonna see a grill and you're gonna learn how to cook a pork chop. That was it.

• 12:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  Missy, we're gonna go to our next segment, which is one of my favorite. It's called Review Review. And we started off by reading one star reviews that people leave on platforms about restaurants that are kind of like, I complain about life in general. They don't make sense. They don't talk about the food. They don't talk about the service. It's like the sun is too bright and I'm sitting outside like. Call God, you know, what do you, what do you want somebody to do about that? Um, so in that, we're also starting a campaign to get platforms to allow restaurants to be able to review diners. So I'm going to read first a review that I found about Missy and then I want you to tell

• 13:07Adrienne Cheatham?

  us a one star guest story, something that happened in one of your restaurants that you would give this guest a one star. But first, let's read this. Okay. If there wasn't the scent of pasta wafting through the air, I would have mistaken it for a doctor's office. I'll be the first to admit that minimalistic Scandinavian vibe is also popular in Williamsburg, but it is so not my thing.

• 13:33Joe Flamm?

  That was it?

• 13:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's it.

• 13:34Joe Flamm?

  That is it.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  That's the whole review.

• 13:37Joe Flamm?

  Did they eat there? They just?

• 13:39Speaker 02

  But they got me. They got me. They understood what I was going for.

• 13:43Joe Flamm?

  They did, they did understand. I will say, I will say, it's weird when somebody like gets it.

• 13:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're like, they got it.

• 13:50Joe Flamm?

  And you're like, oh, you weirdly like got it? But like you also like, like didn't like.

• 13:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  You didn't like it.

• 13:56Joe Flamm?

  Right. Like you hated it. It's like the weirdest thing when it's like, man, I wish I could get everybody to get it like you did, but also like.

• 14:05Adrienne Cheatham?

  I've been there. Like I thought the vibe, I thought it was like sexy, minimalistic. I would never have mistaken it. My doctor's office is not that sexy. I mean, it's like, I thought Missy was like really cool decor, the warm lighting.

• 14:17Speaker 02

  Listen, Missy is really polarizing. Like people either love the design or hate it. Like it is not a plate, like Lilia, everyone's like, oh, this is beautiful, right? It's got 16 foot ceilings. It's got rafters. It's got all the things that people want in a restaurant. So I kind of took the opposite approach and was like, well, it's not a charming room. And to make it more charming, I probably would have had to spend three more million dollars. So I also happen to like minimalism. Like if I showed you my apartment right now, you'd be like, oh yeah, she doesn't, she's Scandinavian.

• 14:50Adrienne Cheatham?

  That goes in, in line with like your whole aesthetic. Like you are single-handedly responsible for my collection of monochromatic jumpsuits.

• 14:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  I'm just saying.

• 15:00Speaker 02

  Do you need some new ones because I've moved on to a different style?

• 15:03Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, yes, I do. I will come and pick them up. So, Missy, what is a story of one-star guest behavior? Either something your front of house had to deal with, or you saw firsthand?

• 15:13Speaker 02

  I mean, it's like the classic one that happens all the time, and everyone should stop. It's like making a reservation for three people, calling and then saying, "May we come with five?" The reservation team says, "I'm so sorry, we can't do that. We only have a few large tables. We can't fit a five top." And then they show up with six.

• 15:37Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 15:37Speaker 02

  And then they, and they don't understand, like, why you can't seat them, and then you want to be hospitable, so you do it, and then you screw up the book for the entire night.

• 15:47Joe Flamm?

  Yep. That's, that's the number one. They show up, they're like, "Ooh, can't you just, you know, push some tables together? Can't you just move a chair?" And you're like, I, those are always the toughest ones. Because like, you want to do the most hospitable thing possible, but you're also like, in what other world does that work?

• 16:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  It does not.

• 16:03Joe Flamm?

  You know what I mean? Like, if me and you were taking a flight, and we were just like, "Hey, uh, we're also bringing Adrienne." Like, we didn't buy her ticket, we didn't say she was coming, but like, she came to the gate with us, so like, can you just?

• 16:16Speaker 02

  Got an extra seat? I think it's particularly bad when they call and ask, and then you say no, and then they do it anyway. It's like a three-year-old child.

• 16:25Joe Flamm?

  A hundred percent.

• 16:26Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 16:27Joe Flamm?

  They're like, "Well, Mom said no, so I'm just gonna show up to Dad's house with all of my friends and hope for the best." And then it's like, you're like, fucking stuck, and like, they know it too. They know it too. That's why it's so shitty. It's like, you're a shitbag for doing this.

• 16:42Adrienne Cheatham?

  But hospitality, go out of your way to try to make it happen. I wish people would understand that that's not okay.

• 16:49Joe Flamm?

  See, that's what I'm saying. It's like, we should be able to like, mark their reservation and be like, "They showed up with more people than they said after we told them no. One star."

• 16:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 16:57Joe Flamm?

  Like, because those people are habitual with that shit too. Because you know.

• 17:00Speaker 02

  Oh, totally.

• 17:01Joe Flamm?

  They, you know they fucking do it.

• 17:03Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's crazy also because Missy and Lilia are two really hard reservations in New York. I had a friend invite me, because they were like, "We have, somebody can't come. Do you want to come with us? We have seats at the bar." I was like, "I will, I will leave Harlem now, and I will be there in 20 minutes." I don't know how I made it from Harlem to Williamsburg that quickly.

• 17:23Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 17:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay, maybe it was like thirty. I was a little late.

• 17:26Speaker 02

  I gotta tell you something. Lilia and Missy are not a hard reservation for you, Adrian.

• 17:32Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh.

• 17:32Speaker 02

  You can get, you now have my cell. You can get, you can get in anytime.

• 17:36Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I've never had an issue getting in, Adrian. I don't know what you're talking about.

• 17:41Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, my God. And I mean, okay, so one thing that you mentioned earlier also is Avoche. And I met you for the first time, Missy, when you were at Avoche. And to me, it was like a huge deal. It was like a city harvest event. One of the walk around things. I was like manning the Laburna Den table. You were being Missy Robbins and shaking hands and kissing babies. And I was just like so enamored because at the time, you were one of the only women that I knew of that was helming two One Michelin Star restaurants.

• 18:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:13Adrienne Cheatham?

  And I think at the time, you were one of ten women in the US that were running Michelin Star restaurants.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  Really? Is that true?

• 18:21Adrienne Cheatham?

  I think at that time, yeah, I can't remember the year, but when you were, when you opened the second Avoche, you were one of ten women in the US.

• 18:27Speaker 02

  Probably 2011. I opened 2010, the second Avoche. So 2011, probably, we got a star.

• 18:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  I didn't, so to be honest, okay, I know I'm from Chicago, but I actually did not know about Spiaja. Until, I swear to God, until you came to New York and were, you know, became the chef at Avoche. And I'm like, oh, my God, this is amazing. Who is this woman? I'm like, she was in Chicago. Spiaja? How don't I know about this? Like, what in the world is going on? I called my sister and she was like, oh, yeah, like, that's a hotspot. Like, that's like our Laburna Den in Chicago.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  How long did you work at Laburna Den?

• 19:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  I was there for about eight years.

• 19:04Speaker 02

  That's incredible.

• 19:06Joe Flamm?

  That reaction was so good.

• 19:07Speaker 02

  One of my sous is leaving to go there. I said, did you get a job yet? He's like, no, I'm working on it. I said, you need any help? I'm happy to help you. He's like, no, I got it. And I was like, I was like, okay. I, he's like, will you come see me when I'm working there? And I'm like, definitely.

• 19:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 19:26Speaker 02

  He's a really good guy. He started with zero experience. And he wants to move to Spain eventually. And he wants to do fine dining before he gets to Spain. And I was like, okay. People don't do that. Like, people don't want to tell you, I have a cook who works with me right now. Who's leaving and like I I'm not that I don't know her that well, but like I went up to her and I said, hey, where I heard you're leaving like where are you going? And she was like, super nasty and she's like, yeah, I'm not telling you. And I was like, okay, well, um, I'm just like trying to be interested in your career. And she's like, yeah, it's just like, I don't have to tell you, I don't have to tell anyone. I I didn't tell Pace and my CDC.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  And I I went up to her later. I was like, listen, like, I don't care if you have any respect for me, but like, you you should respect Pace and because you've been in this kitchen with him for two years and he you wouldn't be going anywhere if it weren't for him. And I just think it's like so stupid, like you're you already gave your notice, like, what am I gonna do? Call the restaurant?

• 20:28Joe Flamm?

  And be like, don't hire her?

• 20:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, like that, ah, like.

• 20:32Joe Flamm?

  It's weird and like Chicago is so small, too. It's like, you know, these kids won't tell me. You know, like the good ones do. They'll be like, hey, I'm thinking about this. Can you set me up? And I've taken care of those people and I put them wherever they want us to.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 20:44Joe Flamm?

  And then you have the ones who, you know, they've only worked for us for four months and they're like, oh, I want to do something else. And they go staj and then it's like, I'll get a text about it before their staj.

• 20:56Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 20:56Joe Flamm?

  Somebody will be like, hey, you know this person, they're coming to staj. I'm like, yeah. And they're like, did you know they're coming to staj? And I'm like, no. And they're like, what do you think? And I'm like, what do you think I think? And they're like, okay. You know what I mean? And then it's like you have to go in and be like, hey, how was your weekend?

• 21:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, for as big as New York is, it's very small in in a certain community of restaurants.

• 21:16Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yep.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  And like, we all know each other. We're all really friendly. You know, the world's different than it was 20 years ago. Like chefs are so supportive of each other and everyone wants everyone to win now.

• 21:28Joe Flamm?

  Everybody knows everybody.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  So Missy, I think we're gonna take it to our next segment, which we call Walk-in Confessions. Joe, do you want to tell Missy what this one is?

• 21:41Joe Flamm?

  So walking confessions, miss, is those stories along the way that we haven't shared of when things went sideways, those nights were either, you know, like, we didn't think we were gonna make it through and we somehow pulled it off and nobody knew what happened behind the scenes, or things went completely sideways and we didn't pull it off, but we just have never brought it to light in a long time.

• 22:04Speaker 02

  I have a great one. It's haunted me since I was about, I'll say, 25 years old, and I still to this day, well, I'll tell you the story and then I'll tell you what I still do this day. So I was at cooking at an event for 150 people when I worked at March. I was with Wayne Nish, who was like, you know, no one knows who he is now, but he really was ahead of his time, too. I worked at, did you know that restaurant, March? Did you know it, Adrian?

• 22:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  I've heard of March, but I don't know much about it. It was one of those things I heard about years ago.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  So it was like a tiny townhouse. It was my, it's the first restaurant I worked in in New York. I did my internship there and then I left and then I came back when they had a real position. And it was like a five-person kitchen plus 10 interns working for free. And Wayne was, um, is, he's like a quarter Japanese, so there was like Asian influence and he was doing these tasting menus, you know, much in the vein of like Charlie Trotter, but he's, right when I started, he started this thing where there were like four quadrants on the menu and it was like choose your own adventure and you would have, you could have like a six top and six people would be eating six different tasting menus.

• 23:19Speaker 02

  It was like nuts and it was like in the age of like seared foie gras, so you'd have like 20 foies going at the same time and we fried only in clarified butter. We had a copper pot. We fried in the copper pot in clarified butter. I have, you'd have to change it out like six times a night. It was like, I mean, I learned fine dining. Uh, that's like where I got my ass kicked. Like it was an intense, intense kitchen. Anyway, he took me to this event. Um, because my other mentor, Ann Rosenzweig, who I worked with for four years on and off between The Lobster Club and Arcadia, um, was also cooking. I still have the Arcadia cookbook. I love that book.

• 24:00Speaker 02

  Me too. It's amazing. Um, and Ann was gonna be there. So he was like, yeah, you can come and blah, blah, blah. So I was like nervous and I just wanted to impress and uh, and Wayne used to have this dish that was grapefruit. It was so simple. Grapefruit macerated in, in just like its own juices and sugar and coriander seed. And it was awesome. And dumb little cook here, 25 years old, is in a foreign kitchen. There are bins of salt and sugar and stuff. It's at a private club. And uh, Missy decided not to taste the bin of which she pulled out salt instead of sugar.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Salted grapefruit for 150 people. Oh. The sous chef, the sous chef, his name was Charlie, comes over, he tastes it. And I was like, Charlie, I, I, I fucked up. I, I, I put, I put salt instead of sugar. I didn't taste it before I put it in. And he goes, doesn't taste that salty. You're fine. Don't worry about it. Cause I obviously like figured it out and started adding sugar and whatever. And he's like, it doesn't taste that bad. Wayne shows up, you know, as like the chef owner does at five o'clock and walks in and starts tasting our dishes. And he goes, man, this tastes salty. And I was like, really?

• 25:25Joe Flamm?

  Hmm.

• 25:28Speaker 02

  I don't know why. It must be something.

• 25:29Joe Flamm?

  You pulled the really?

• 25:30Speaker 02

  And we went, yeah, classic Missy. And we, and we went, um, we like went and bought grapefruit juice and like emptied the grapefruit juice out of it and added grapefruit. But Charlie was gonna screw me. Like Charlie, the sous chef didn't care. Charlie was like, you're fine. But I think he, now in hindsight, I think he did it on purpose.

• 25:51Joe Flamm?

  Oh, a hundred percent.

• 25:52Speaker 02

  He wanted you to get that banana. He totally. And whatever, the night went off without a hint. I swear to God. I mean, that was 30 years ago, almost. I literally, I literally never use salt or sugar without tasting it first, even in my house, if it's coming out of a salt box. Like you never, you never forget that moment.

• 26:16Joe Flamm?

  No, no.

• 26:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  Done that at some point, even though like sugar's sparklier, it has a different, but it's still.

• 26:26Joe Flamm?

  And you were like. What do I actually know?

• 26:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right. And God forbid, I come upon a batch of sparkly salt, like.

• 26:35Joe Flamm?

  Right.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  That's my favorite one.

• 26:40Joe Flamm?

  I love the two where they like call you out on it and you're like, hmm, really? No, like I didn't. Did you think that? I didn't think that. I didn't even, I don't think I even, it's weird, it's salty because we didn't use salt. So like, maybe these grapefruits grew closer to the sea and there's more of a sailing quality.

• 27:00Joe Flamm?

  I've, I've heard of some things like that. Like I have read about that and some, some coastal living magazines that I subscribe to. So it could be that.

• 27:11Speaker 02

  Oh my God. Yeah. Really Wayne, you think it's salty?

• 27:18Joe Flamm?

  Just get like grapefruit and like, like a good amount of sugar, like the right amount of sugar. That you wanted.

• 27:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  You need a little salt to bring out the flavor of things.

• 27:29Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I think that, that batch, uh, that batch of coriander was a little salty maybe chef. I don't know.

• 27:36Speaker 02

  Sometimes people can mistake acid for salt.

• 27:38Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, totally.

• 27:40Speaker 02

  Happens all the time in my restaurants. You know how much acid I use in my food. Like I'm like, should own a vinegar company. And people will be like, it's really salty and I'll taste it and I'm like, that's just red wine vinegar.

• 27:53Adrienne Cheatham?

  Missy, before we let you go, there's one more thing I have to ask you because I swear I thought my head was going to explode. When I was watching this episode of Billions and out walked Missy Robbins. I was like, holy moly, they, they nailed it. They nailed it with the chefs that they picked for that. What was that like doing that cameo on Billions?

• 28:16Speaker 02

  Oh, it was super fun. I mean, the most. It was fun. We we were shooting up in um one of the upstate places and there ended. We were supposed to go for the day like we had a car. And we had to cook like a hundred and fifty portions of malfadini. Whoa. So so I brought two chefs and Sean that next to me was my business partner Sean. And we ended up having it was a blizzard and they were like you're not going home. And so they put us up in rooms and we ended up hanging out with the whole cast in the little bar at the hotel. Afterwards, so it was really fun and they were so nice, but the best part. Sean Feeny, my business partner, you know, they give us your lines, right?

• 28:57Speaker 02

  So they say to Sean like whatever they wanted him to say and Sean's like, yeah, I don't. I don't really like my line. And I'm like, do not. Do not say anything. And we like he we know Brian, the writer creator, and I'm like, do not say anything. And Sean goes straight up to the director. Who he doesn't know. And goes, you know. I don't think my line is like really something I would say and I'd I'd like it to be like a little bit more me. And I'm like mortified and the director actually goes, well, what what would you like to say? And Sean's like, I'd like to say, I hope you enjoy. We hope you enjoy. Because that's what Sean always does.

• 29:41Speaker 02

  And the guy goes, okay, you can say that. And I'm like, I can't, I can't believe you just did that. And then Sean also cannot stand still on his mark. You know, they give you a mark to stand on. You guys are TV stars, you know. And they like taped him in. They like boxed him in. They're like, do not move, stand here. And he sent a picture to his friend who's an actor, like one of his best friends and. The guy was like, Sean, I've been acting for twenty five years. No one has ever done that for me. So it was like funny. It was like a really fun. Just experience, but I'll tell you this, I don't I don't want to be an actor. It's not my it's not my thing. I don't I don't even like being on TV.

• 30:17Joe Flamm?

  I love I love seeing you on TV.

• 30:19Speaker 02

  I hate I hate it. I hate being on TV. Really?

• 30:23Joe Flamm?

  I I love seeing you on TV.

• 30:24Speaker 02

  You do?

• 30:25Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 30:25Speaker 02

  I'm never on TV.

• 30:26Joe Flamm?

  It's awesome. I've seen you on TV. You're on billions. And some other things I won't bring up.

• 30:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's not bring up that. That was a, I mean, you know what happened, Adrian, right?

• 30:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  No.

• 30:37Speaker 02

  Oh, I cut my finger off in the first episode.

• 30:39Adrienne Cheatham?

  No.

• 30:40Speaker 02

  I got flown home. I had to go, I had to emergency fly home on a red eye and go into surgery the next day and get a skin graft. I cut my pinky on a mandolin and uh in the first episode and I was so embarrassed and it's so crazy cuz I, the only reason I didn't wanna go on Top Chef Masters is cuz I'm kind of klutzy and I was like, I'm gonna hurt myself. I know I'm gonna hurt myself. And then the first episode, I, someone walked behind. I was like literally two minutes away from doing the rap thing. And I was like cutting zucchini and eggplant on a mandolin. And someone walked behind me and I got distracted and I had a brand new mandolin.

• 31:19Joe Flamm?

  Oh.

• 31:20Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh.

• 31:20Speaker 02

  And I went over to the sink, you know, when you cut yourself and you're a chef and like you don't want anyone to see. So you're like, oh, cool. So I go, yeah, I'm cool. So I go over to the sink. And I'm like rinsing it and Chris Cosentino comes over who ended up winning the season. And if you saw him in the first thirty seconds of the show, you knew he was winning the season. He's so good on TV and competitive. And he comes over and he starts screaming and he's like, someone get a paramedic. And apparently like everything was showing and the paramedic like wraps me up and they send me to a Vegas emergency room. And the guy in the emergency room was like, I'm gonna send you a specialist tomorrow, but

• 32:03Speaker 02

  you probably have to get a skin graft. And I'm like, I'm not getting a skin graft in Vegas, no way. And so I went to the specialist and then I went back to the trailer. And my hand was like wrapped up like I had broken my arm for this pinky, just like a little pinky. And the guy goes, um, I went back to the trailer and I said to the producers like, can I have my knives and an apple, please?

• 32:28Speaker 02

  And I took out a knife and I'm like this and I'm like I wanted to prove to them that I could stay on the show. Oh, Missy. And I was like, I can do it. And I, it took me a minute to cut an apple into four pieces and I was like.

• 32:41Joe Flamm?

  Oh my god.

• 32:42Speaker 02

  I was like, I guess, I was so upset. Cause I think I could have done like, okay. I don't think I would have won by any means, but I think I would have done okay. And also it was like fun. It was like a, I'm not a good competitive cook and I'm not a quick thinker. I'm like a very slow processor. So like, I'm not quick on my feet like that. Like, so I don't, I don't know how far I would have gone, but, and I don't ever wanna do anything like that again. But I, um, and so the next morning, I flew home, or the next night, that night, I flew home. And I was in surgery the next day and I had to be out of the kitchen for three months, like not anywhere near heat. So you know, the Votche kitchen was so big.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  And I would, I would stand like twenty feet away from the kitchen and just like watch food go out. Because they said, if this doesn't, they, when you do a skin graft, like heat bothers it for it to seal. And they're like, if this doesn't take, you're gonna have to do it again. And if it doesn't take then, you're gonna have to get your finger taken off. And I was like, uh, they told me this all after surgery. And I was like, ah. Alright, I guess I'll take this cer- seriously. But it was kind of like a nice period because I was so frustrated at V- at Votche anyway, which is why I went on Top Chef in the first place. Because they called me one day and I was walking around the mall, cause I was like pissed off. And they caught me in like a good moment. I'm like, how long do I get to be away for? And they're like, five weeks.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  And I'm like, do I get my phone and a computer? They're like, yeah, you get your own room, a suite, da, da, da, da, da. Cause it was masters. And I was like, alright, I'll do it. And. They had us like in gen pop compared to that.

• 34:23Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 34:23Speaker 02

  Oh, I know what you guys did. It was like weird. I would ne- I don't know how you did that. I mean, didn't you have kids then, Joe?

• 34:30Joe Flamm?

  No.

• 34:30Speaker 02

  You didn't have a kid, but you had a wife?

• 34:32Joe Flamm?

  Uh, yeah, I still do. Uh.

• 34:34Speaker 02

  No, no, I'm saying like you were married and like a grown up.

• 34:38Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know about a grown up, but like, I was married for sure.

• 34:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. But so I went, but I, I got to go, I had to go to physical therapy like two to three times a week. And it was like across the park on the Upper East Side. And so I'd be gone. Three hours a day and I'd just be reading People Magazine and doing finger exercises.

• 34:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  I'm sorry, I had no idea about that. I had no clue. Oh my god.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  It's very traumatizing and like whenever someone puts in my bio, she was on Top Chef Masters, I'm like, take it out. But it's okay. I've done okay.

• 35:12Joe Flamm?

  Tony, Tony likes to, Tony likes to bring it up every once in a while.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. I also was so worried too when they, when they like, you know, they fill, as you well know, guys, it, it comes out a year later, right? So I was like, they're, I, they're gonna edit this so meanly. And I remember like, you know, at the time I was at a Voce and I was like in the kitchen, but I wasn't like a working chef. I like expedited every night. And they asked me in like the intro interview, like, how does it feel not like, how does it feel being here and like not cooking every day anymore? Da, da, da. And I was like, oh, they're totally gonna like mash this all together. And I have to say they very kindly edited it. They were like really, really nice. Um, but I was terrified for like a year of looking like a schmuck.

• 36:00Joe Flamm?

  Oh, yeah.

• 36:00Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 36:01Speaker 02

  Well, you knew you didn't look like a schmuck. You won and you were number two, so.

• 36:05Adrienne Cheatham?

  I mean, but I, I same thing like you. Like I am a slow processor. I need to take notes. I need to review. I need to create a mental plan about how I approach things. I'm not like, you know, it's like, you know, you're gonna have a challenge meat and potatoes for 500 people at a walk around event. Go. And I'm like, I could do anything. So what do I do? You know, it's like, it's just, I spin out like, I'm not that quick. Competition cooking is like a different muscle to exercise and I've,

• 36:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  I've done a couple of things since then, like, you know, Food Network, like stuff with Bobby Flay where, you know, it's, it's a muscle that once you start exercising it, you can get better. But I had also never watched competition shows before going to do Top Chef, so I had no,

• 36:50Speaker 02

  Oh, no way, really?

• 36:51Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, I just, I had been in restaurants for, I think at that point I'd been in restaurants for about 12 years and I had just quit my last restaurant, was taking three months off, got the phone call to interview and I was like, eh. It's a kitchen. I grew up in kitchens. I'll figure it out. I got there. I was like, I have no idea what I'm doing. I was so ill-prepared. Like, kudos to the people.

• 37:13Speaker 02

  Did you guys become fast friends? Did you like each other at the beginning?

• 37:16Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 37:16Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, we did.

• 37:17Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, right away. And then we figured out we were both Southsiders and I was like, oh, this is why I like this person.

• 37:22Adrienne Cheatham?

  The first challenge we had, I was like in the bottom three, like, right off the bat. And somebody else went home and we were walking off camera. And Joe put his arm around me. He was like, it's, it's okay, bud. Like, he didn't even know me. Like, we didn't know each other yet. He was just like, just we connected immediately. He was like, it wasn't your time. You got the next one.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  Aww.

• 37:42Adrienne Cheatham?

  I was like, thank you. Like, that meant so much. Cause I was so embarrassed that I hadn't performed well on the first challenge. And to have somebody kind of like reassure me that like, you don't suck. I was just like, oh my God. It's like, takes you back to that, the twenties in kitchens. Like, I suck at life. Like, I can't do anything right.

• 38:03Speaker 02

  But that's the beauty of Joe Flamm. Like, that's who he is. Was there anyone you didn't click with, Joe? You don't have to say their name, but like, I can't imagine you not getting along with anyone.

• 38:13Joe Flamm?

  Uh huh. I, I can get along with everyone. It doesn't mean I like everyone.

• 38:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  Ah.

• 38:20Joe Flamm?

  You know what I mean? It's very much, um, but it's just like, I felt for Adrienne. She was at the bottom of like, I feel it, being at the bottom is worse, that anxiety, but it's like, and you saw it shut people down who they hit the bottom for the first time and you knew they were going home the next time, cause mentally.

• 38:34Speaker 02

  Really? Cause they can't recover.

• 38:36Joe Flamm?

  Mentally, they had lost already. You know what I mean? People who were really good chefs, but like, you know, once they hit that bottom and once they had it in their head, like, I could fall, or I see, you know what I mean? I see the drop. They were gone. You knew they weren't coming back from it. And, you know, and I think that was like, one of the most impressive things about Adrienne's, you know, run at it was like, she dealt with the bottom and was able to bounce back from it. And like, people don't know how hard that is. Like, what a mental fuck.

• 39:08Speaker 02

  But also not surprising because she worked at La Bruna Den for eight years and I'm sure had some real bad nights to bounce back.

• 39:16Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 39:16Speaker 02

  You know, like, I'm sure that's not like a foreign feeling. You worked in a really tough kitchen.

• 39:22Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah. And there's no crying in baseball. So you brush, you just gotta brush it off and you can't, you can't go down the rest of service. So you have to get over yourself and keep it moving. And like Joe said, like, you're like a cockroach. Like, you're not going anywhere. I'm like, damn right. I'm like an atomic roach. I'll be here.

• 39:41Joe Flamm?

  Yeah. I was like, she's like half alligator blood, man. The ant around her.

• 39:45Speaker 02

  Would you guys do it again? Like if they call tomorrow and we're like, come do an All Stars, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah?

• 39:50Joe Flamm?

  Um, they asked me to do that London one where they were trying to get like winners and international people. And, um, I said no to that. Um, because I couldn't.

• 40:00Adrienne Cheatham?

  I said yes, but timing didn't work out. But you said no?

• 40:03Joe Flamm?

  I said no.

• 40:04Speaker 02

  Because you're busy? Or because you just don't want to do it?

• 40:07Joe Flamm?

  I couldn't go off grid again. I was like, if you, I go, if I can have my phone, if I can have my laptop, I'm like, I need to be able to work and I need to be able to talk to my kids whenever I want.

• 40:16Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 40:17Joe Flamm?

  You know what I mean? I didn't have kids when I did last time.

• 40:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:20Joe Flamm?

  And they were like, no, it's still gonna be this. I was like, okay, then I'm not interested. And they were like, well, you know, you wouldn't consider it? I said, not if you guys won't consider it. I go, if you want to make me halfway here. But I had also known that they had already called Steph and asked her to do it. And she told him the same thing. And they were making some concessions. Concessions for her.

• 40:43Speaker 02

  Why?

• 40:44Joe Flamm?

  Why? Because she's Steph. And like, it's so, but they wouldn't make all of them. And then, because she wanted to bring her son and they wouldn't let her do that. But so I told them the same thing. And then they were like, no, we're not gonna do that. And I said, okay. I said, that's cool. I'm not gonna do it either then. Um, and so it would just, I couldn't go off grid again for two months. There's my, my, well, my life couldn't take that. You know what I mean?

• 41:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 41:12Joe Flamm?

  It wouldn't be fair.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:14Joe Flamm?

  For everyone else in my life to do that again.

• 41:16Speaker 02

  Well, that's a responsible father and husband.

• 41:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right?

• 41:19Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 41:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  You also won, so you don't like have anything to prove. I still feel like.

• 41:23Speaker 02

  Oh, you still got it in you.

• 41:24Joe Flamm?

  Oh, you still got that itch, huh?

• 41:26Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 41:27Adrienne Cheatham?

  A little bit, but. But I just, I haven't been able to go back. Whenever they're filming, I have stuff on the calendar, so I've, I've never, but I, I do kinda want to because I do still feel like I could do better than I do. I don't know, but.

• 41:41Speaker 02

  I think you've won at life, Adrian. You don't need to win top chef.

• 41:45Joe Flamm?

  Missy, thank you so much.

• 41:46Speaker 02

  Thank you. That was fun.

• 41:48Joe Flamm?

  I could start every day talking to you on the phone for an hour.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  Let's do it. Let's just do a podcast recording every morning.

• 41:54Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 41:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  Missy, thank you so, so much for joining us. It is a blast hanging out with you and we would love to do it again whenever you've got some time.

• 42:03Speaker 02

  Every morning.

• 42:06Adrienne Cheatham?

  Uh, well, where can people find you?

• 42:09Speaker 02

  We can find me in Williamsburg at, uh, Lilia at Missy and at our newest place, our little boutique of, um, specialties and pasta and sauces, um, and a little aperitivo bar called Missy Pasta. All in Williamsburg, all within a mile of each other.

• 42:27Joe Flamm?

  Or a Cotaquino sandwich.

• 42:28Speaker 02

  Cotaquino sandwich. We have an eggplant sandwich now, artichoke sandwich. We're not a sandwich restaurant, but I have a lot of sandwiches.

• 42:35Joe Flamm?

  They're so good. I, I can't, I can't wait to come back. I'll bring, I'll bring age. I'll bring age next.

• 42:40Speaker 02

  When are you? Let's, yeah, let's have a live podcast.

• 42:43Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, that would be amazing.

• 42:45Joe Flamm?

  From the garden?

• 42:46Speaker 02

  Live. Oh, by the way, I'm starting one.

• 42:49Joe Flamm?

  Really?

• 42:49Speaker 02

  Live from the garden. Yeah, I'm having like friends come and hang out in the garden with me and we're gonna do recordings.

• 42:54Joe Flamm?

  Love it. I'll get out of play.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  Will you?

• 42:57Joe Flamm?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah.

• 42:58Speaker 02

  Done. Done. Okay. Great. Love it.

• 43:00Adrienne Cheatham?

  Awesome. Joe, where can everybody find you?

• 43:03Joe Flamm?

  Um, you can find me in the garden at Missy Pasta, once I know when I'm going. Uh, if you're in Chicago though, I'm at Boulevard Steakhouse, Rosemary, uh, Chicago, Il Cartofo and at Insaflam on Instagram if you're looking for me online. Age, if they're trying to keep up with you and whatever country you're in at the moment, where, where, where can they track you down?

• 43:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  You can find me on IG at Chef Adrian Cheatham. You can check out the Sunday Best Cookbook. You can also check out our Chef's Cut Pod Instagram account for clips with Missy, uh, me, Joe, and all the amazing chefs that we've talked with.

• 43:38Joe Flamm?

  All right. Well, uh, for me, for my friend Adrian Cheatham and for the great Missy Robbins, this has been the Chef's Cut this week.

• 43:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  Life beyond the past.