Episode 526: Liron Kayvan: Smart Strength Training That Builds Results Without Injury or Burnout

Lifting heavier, training to exhaustion, and pushing through pain are often labeled as discipline, yet they are some of the fastest ways to stall progress and get injured. The real problem is misunderstanding how intensity and reps actually drive results over time. In this Fitness Friday episode we get into why pushing past your limits is not discipline, what rep ranges actually drive results, and how fitness is increasingly shaping behavior, consistency, and social connection. Liron Kayvan founded BFLA in 2019. He's a NASM Certified Group Fitness Instructor, Personal Trainer, and Transformative Life Coach. Liron has competed in Amateur MMA, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and Rugby and has been a Fitness Coach for over 10 years. What's Discussed (00:52) Why mastering bodyweight movements should come before lifting (02:56) How machines allow higher intensity and safety without perfect form (04:36) Why workout intensity matters more than how heavy you lift (06:02) The rep ranges that actually support strength and muscle growth (13:40) How group fitness creates consistency through structure and accountability (15:00) Why fitness spaces are replacing bars as social connection hubs (17:56) How padel and running clubs blend movement, community, and lifestyle (22:07) Why pickleball and other "low-impact" sports carry unexpected injury risk Thank you to our sponsors: Rho Nutrition: Try Rho Nutrition today and experience the difference of Liposomal Technology. Use code JEN20for 20% OFF everything at https://rhonutrition.com/discount/jen20. Prolon: Get 30% off sitewide plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe to their 5-Day Program! Just visit https://prolonlife.com/JENNIFERCOHEN and use code JENNIFERCOHEN to claim your discount and your bonus gift. Therasage: Head over to therasage.com and use code Be Bold for 15% off Air Doctor: Go to airdoctorpro.com and use promo code HUSTLE40 for up to $300 off and a 3-year warranty on air purifiers. Magic Mind: Head over to www.magicmind.com/jen and use code Jen at checkout. Momentous: Shop this link and use code Jen for 20% off Manna Vitality: Visit mannavitality.com and use code JENNIFER20 for 20% off your order Amp fit is the perfect balance of tech and training, designed for people who do it all and still want to feel strong doing it. Check it out at joinamp.com/jen Find more from Jen: Website: https://jennifercohen.com Instagram: http://instagram.com/therealjencohen Books: https://jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagement Find more from Liron Kayvan: Website: http://beyondfitnessla.com Instagram: http://instagram.com/beyondfitnessla

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Hi guys, this is Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

• 0:06Jen Cohen?

  Before we dive into today's episode, I first want to thank our sponsor Therasage. Their Trillight Panel has become my favorite biohacking thing for healing my body. It's a portable red light panel that I simply cannot live without. I literally bring it with me everywhere I go. And I personally use their red light therapy to help reduce inflammations in places in my body where honestly, I have pain. You can use it on a sore back, stomach cramps, shoulder, ankle. Red light therapy is my go-to. Plus, it also has amazing anti-aging benefits, including reducing signs of fine lines and wrinkles on your face, which I also use it for.

• 0:48Jen Cohen?

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• 1:28Jen Cohen?

  We're back with my friendly Ron. We're going to talk all things fitness today. Are you ready?

• 1:33Speaker 02

  I'm ready.

• 1:34Jen Cohen?

  All right. Thank you for being here.

• 1:36Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:37Jen Cohen?

  You're very welcome.

• 1:40Jen Cohen?

  It's nice to have you. Okay, I got some quick questions for you. Ready?

• 1:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43Jen Cohen?

  Okay, body weight exercises versus weights, what do you think is better?

• 1:48Speaker 02

  Body weight has to come first. You have to be good at body weight first. There's some situations where you might need to start on weights before if the exercise is hard or injuries, etc. But most of the time, you should be proficient in any type of movement, the body weight version, so for example, a push-up versus a bench press. You should be mastering push-ups before you bench. Does that make sense?

• 2:10Jen Cohen?

  Okay, yes, but in terms of the, um, in terms of like building muscle, what is more effective?

• 2:14Speaker 02

  I think you can, I think you can, again, like.

• 2:16Jen Cohen?

  Could you build muscle with just body weight?

• 2:18Speaker 02

  Absolutely, absolutely. So like, when I was like a teenager, I started doing body weight training for like two or three years. My body transformed like that, super, super, super fast. And then when I started to lift weights, because I had such a good foundation of movement, correct movement patterns, stabilizer muscles, I know that's kind of bro science. I don't know exactly, you know what I mean?

• 2:37Jen Cohen?

  What's bro science?

• 2:39Speaker 02

  Stabilizer muscles.

• 2:40Jen Cohen?

  What are you talking about? Women talk about stabilizing muscles.

• 2:43Speaker 02

  In terms of like, you know, there's not a, there's not such a thing as a stabilizer muscle that people really agree on what it is. But essentially, the, that movement pattern by working your body in a very balanced way that you get from calisthenics, from body weight exercises, it sets you up for weightlifting after. And I found that people who get good with body weight exercises first can put on muscle much faster when they do add weights.

• 3:11Jen Cohen?

  Gotcha.

• 3:11Speaker 02

  So that makes sense.

• 3:12Jen Cohen?

  It makes sense, but I would say this, I think that when I think of stabilizing muscles, I think about really strengthening your core and your balance, which are super important as you age also.

• 3:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, which I think you probably get more of with body weight exercises, depending on specifically which ones you do. But I'd say you get more of that with body weight and then you get from free weights after that, free weights and kettlebells. And then finally, I think machines.

• 3:38Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, machines are really good for people who have a lot of injury, actually.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:42Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, I think machines are very good for that because it just works the muscle that you're supposed to work.

• 3:47Speaker 02

  Push yourself at a really high level. So if you want to go super, super heavy safely, machines actually really have their place. Cause say you fail on a machine, what happens? You, the stack just drops it on the stack, right?

• 3:57Jen Cohen?

  Right, right, right.

• 3:58Speaker 02

  Not on you.

• 3:58Jen Cohen?

  Not on you.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  Exactly. So if you're training by yourself, things like Smith machines and cable machines and stuff like that. So I know you were talking about home gyms. Or friends of mine, when they ask me about home gyms, I'm like, look, machines are actually great. If you can find a machine that does a bunch of different stuff, machines are great for the sake of safety and the ability to really, really push yourself to failure. Without kind of jeopardizing yourself.

• 4:21Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  And also not really like, you don't really need to get form perfect. Like you do like a back squat versus a leg press. Leg press is just way easier.

• 4:31Jen Cohen?

  Yes.

• 4:31Speaker 02

  Right, form wise.

• 4:32Jen Cohen?

  I think that's true. I also think though, what do you think about this actually? Because I, I know to get stronger and to get results, a lot of times it's about progressive overload, right?

• 4:44Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 4:44Jen Cohen?

  But I also think, I was gonna say not but, and I also think that with age and sometimes with injury, you can't really lift as heavy as maybe you once did. So like, I still think that you can still get a really, you could get really good results without killing yourself on like super, super heavy.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:07Jen Cohen?

  Right? Like as long as you're doing weight training, I, I find that to be suitable.

• 5:13Speaker 02

  I think intensity is more important than weight. Weight is an aspect of intensity, but as long as the workout is sufficiently intense.

• 5:22Jen Cohen?

  Well, what I've, why I say this is because when I've worked out with trainers before, they're pushing me to go such a, like such a heavy weight capa- I, I just don't, my body can't even like do it. And they're like, no, you can do it. You're strong. You're a badass. You could do it. I'm like, I really actually cannot do it. Like my glutes are not firing. I have an injury over here. Like.

• 5:45Speaker 02

  One hundred percent.

• 5:46Jen Cohen?

  And the, and the reason why I'm bringing this up is I think it's really important to really be discerning A with who you're working out with and knowing your body. Because just because someone's screaming in your face that you can do it, you can do it. And you know, like it's not you being like, it's not you being a weak, weak ass whatever, right? It's just that you actually legit cannot do it, right? And I think that there is like this whole culture now is like lift, lift super, super, super heavy. No, you gotta lift heavy enough where you can improve like on your own strength little by little, but don't kill yourself. It's not the, that's not the, that's not also the answer.

• 6:25Speaker 02

  It's great advice. Don't kill yourself.

• 6:26Jen Cohen?

  Well, don't kill.

• 6:27Speaker 02

  Generally speaking.

• 6:28Jen Cohen?

  Don't, don't hurt yourself.

• 6:28Speaker 02

  Generally speaking.

• 6:29Jen Cohen?

  Well, I think. Yeah, well, just generally speaking. Well, I was gonna say, what is your opinion on this lifting?

• 6:35Speaker 02

  No, I agree with you a hundred percent. I mean, the research says anywhere between five and thirty reps is good for hypertrophy. Five and thirty.

• 6:43Jen Cohen?

  No, I heard between eight and twelve.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  Right, so that's the traditional one. That can lend itself to, look, this is gonna be a very big topic of debate between people. And I'm not giving my personal opinion. I'm saying that the latest research I've seen is you can get muscular gains from five to thirty, as high as thirty reps.

• 7:04Jen Cohen?

  I'd like to see that research because I have not seen that.

• 7:07Speaker 02

  I think it's by Andy Galpin, so you can check that out. But again.

• 7:10Jen Cohen?

  He says that because if you're doing thirty reps, that's more endurance than anything else.

• 7:17Speaker 02

  I know, that's what we traditionally thought. I don't personally, because I find it, again, there's personal preference. There is some personal preference here. Depending on the day, so I might go as high as, you know, twenty five, maybe thirty on certain exercises, depending on how I feel, right? Meaning like that would be exciting to me to do twenty five reps today. I feel like I want to do twenty five reps. So I might push myself up to twenty five reps and then maybe I periodize these things. You have to, once you get very good at fitness and you've been doing it long, you learn to listen to your body a little bit more. But there are times where I want to go super, super heavy and I want to do five reps of something. And there are times when I want to go higher and there are times when I want to be in the middle.

• 8:01Speaker 02

  And I've found that varying things smartly, right, like in a periodized and structured way, is the best way for me to train because it keeps things fresh and exciting for me.

• 8:13Jen Cohen?

  Well, I think what you're talking about is more muscle confusion. So someone like me too, who works out a lot, I can do sometimes twenty reps, sometimes ten reps, because I do it so often and I know kind of like, I'm just, I'm doing it more because I'm just quite frankly bored and I'll just kind of keep it interesting.

• 8:30Speaker 02

  I would relabel it muscle excitement, not confusion, because confusion, like, I'm not confused. I know exactly what I'm doing. But what I want is to do. Something exciting to me like I want to enjoy my workouts and I want to train to get better. So a lot of this also comes from the fact that I want to be a very well balanced athlete. So it's not just hypertrophy. I want to be able to play soccer, which is a very high endurance sport. And then I also want to be able to pick up a car if I need to. So, you know, I want to be adaptable, right? And I want to be well balanced, so I train the full, the full rep range. My point is, especially also there are different muscle groups that require different rep ranges.

• 9:11Speaker 02

  So you're generally speaking, generally speaking, your upper body is going to require less reps. And your lower body is going to require more reps. Glutes, for example, tend to be on the higher rep range. So they take mostly because they're slow twitch muscle fibers. So generally you need more reps with glutes. Again, this is not like just you take this and that's the end of it. Like there is a lot of nuance here, but lower body generally requires higher reps. And upper body generally requires lower reps. Not to say that you should never do high reps.

• 9:47Jen Cohen?

  But, but, but I think that the general consensus is if you are repping for, if you're doing five or six reps, you're doing that for like for.

• 9:59Speaker 02

  Strength and not hypertrophy.

• 10:01Jen Cohen?

  Right, for strength. I, and, and you've got to lift really heavy for that. What I'm saying is if you want to, if you're someone who's, you know, in the middle, an intermediate person, be, I think focusing on between eight to 12, even eight to 15 reps, let's just say. One, and the last one or two should be like almost a failure. That would be what my guideline would be.

• 10:25Speaker 02

  Then, yeah, that's a perfectly reasonable.

• 10:28Jen Cohen?

  But I don't think that, I actually disagree with you that I think that lower body should be higher reps versus upper body that are lower reps. I think you can interchange it like sometimes I think sometimes I would do a lot of reps for pushups, for example, or shoulder, whatever it is, right? And then sometimes I'll do. Heavier, heavier, not to kill myself, but like heavier for 10 to 12 lower body. Because I think, and then sometimes I'll change it up. I don't think one is necessarily.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  As I said, this is, it's not gospel necessarily. Like I built when I was, I don't know, we, we mentioned that on this episode, but when I was first starting, I was a teenager and I only did body weight. So I was doing incline pushups, three sets of 35 and I built a lot of muscle in my chest.

• 11:19Jen Cohen?

  Right, because you're, you're not normal, by the way.

• 11:22Speaker 02

  I am pretty normal.

• 11:22Jen Cohen?

  Okay, just so you know, Leroy, it was like a, almost like a, you were like a soccer player, like a professional soccer player.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  I did a little bit of everything. I was, I was quite good at everything.

• 11:32Jen Cohen?

  Okay, and he's like, you know, he has really good genes. He has like a 20 pack without, without even working out. Okay, never mind. Okay. So if I'm saying, you, you like pumping out like 40 reps of a, of a, of a, of a push up three times. Majority of people is not, that's not realistic.

• 11:50Speaker 02

  Well, again, that was, that was, it wasn't when I first, it wasn't the first set I ever did. I built myself up to 35, but my point is I was, my body was transforming throughout that whole process. Generally, look, if you want my personal opinion.

• 12:02Jen Cohen?

  Yes, that's why you're here.

• 12:03Speaker 02

  Generally, I'm going with the science and I'm also going with, with my experience for myself and for my, maybe thousands of, thousands of clients that I've trained. Generally speaking, I, I wouldn't, if you want actual hypertrophy, like to see muscular size being added. I generally wouldn't go as far, as high as 30 reps. I would probably stick to somewhere in the middle of that rep range.

• 12:29Jen Cohen?

  Okay, so then what do people gain if they're doing 30 reps of something? Keep it simple. Just what do people get? What's the point of doing 30, 30 reps of a lunge in your opinion, besides endurance?

• 12:43Jen Cohen?

  And stamina.

• 12:44Speaker 02

  I, I, I do think you can build muscle on by, by increasing your reps from fifteen, twenty, twenty-five up to thirty. I probably would stop at thirty. And again, if that's something that calls for you, if as long as you are increasing your intensity, muscles can grow.

• 13:00Jen Cohen?

  Okay. So how are you going to increase your intensity? If you're doing thirty reps?

• 13:03Speaker 02

  Five more reps from twenty to twenty-five is still more intensity.

• 13:06Jen Cohen?

  Okay. Where are you going to go from there? Then you're going to do fifty reps?

• 13:08Speaker 02

  Again.

• 13:09Jen Cohen?

  A hundred reps? Like, that's a lot of reps.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  If I'm giving a prescription to people, I would not go beneath five reps and I would not go above thirty reps. And if you wanted to give yourself an easy, the quick and dirty on this, I would stick to somewhere in the middle. Me personally, I'll tell you, I try to do eight to twelve for upper body and ten to fifteen for lower body. That's how I generally train myself. But there are times when I will go lower for lower body and higher for upper body. So I'm saying, you do want to vary things sufficiently, but I would generally stick to the middle of that rep range. I wouldn't go from either of those extremes. Does that make sense?

• 13:47Jen Cohen?

  Makes enough sense, I think. Okay.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  So eight to twelve is a perfectly good rep range for basically every muscle group. You're going to see some gains.

• 13:55Jen Cohen?

  Okay. I understand.

• 14:03Jen Cohen?

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• 14:48Jen Cohen?

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• 15:38Jen Cohen?

  So what about classes, like group fitness? Do you think you can get, do you think you can get really strong and muscular from doing group classes?

• 15:46Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. I have a, I have a group class that I, I teach called Build on Monday and Wednesday evenings.

• 15:54Jen Cohen?

  Really? And how does it work?

• 15:55Speaker 02

  It's a, it's funnily enough, it's, it's actually a circuit. So we'll have five exercises, total body. So that way, if somebody misses a class, it's not a big deal. You're doing your upper push, you're doing your upper pull, you're doing core, you're doing total body movement, and you're doing a lower body exercise. So you've got those five exercises, you do three sets, 45 seconds. So they're timed each set without getting into too much complexity of how the class works. But long story short, you're doing total body and we just do it twice a week. And the gains that people have made, the, the, the people who come twice a week is really beyond my expectation. And a lot of that is just the consistency because, because there's a group and they're cohort and they like each other, they look, they come like every.

• 16:40Jen Cohen?

  Right. This is a community thing.

• 16:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:42Jen Cohen?

  So again, I, you know, I think that there's a major thing with people are now staying further away from, well, actually, actually safer. Like, you know that bars are on the downswing, right? People are not drinking as much and they're, they're actually using like wellness clubs.

• 17:02Speaker 02

  Actually, younger people have these.

• 17:03Jen Cohen?

  Younger people.

• 17:04Speaker 02

  And Z's and stuff, they don't drink.

• 17:05Jen Cohen?

  Well, no, I'm saying like the. Wellness clubs are on a huge uptick now. And like, one of the number one places people are meeting people, like, like relationships, dating, is at running clubs. I mean, people like, or like, that's what I'm saying, a group fitness environment. So like, again, you're, you're doing something, you're doing something that's good for you. Which is like in your, like, taking care of yourself. And it's also a very big social thing as well.

• 17:34Speaker 02

  I also think beyond that, like, if we're gonna take a step, like, deeper, I guess, fitness is sexy. Like, the truth of it is, is like, we like to see people moving their bodies.

• 17:46Jen Cohen?

  Well, a hundred percent.

• 17:48Speaker 02

  It's attractive. It gets something, it triggers something in you that essentially turns you on. It's like, it's chemical. We like that. Going to a bar and drinking, yeah, you have to turn the lights down so people, you can't tell what people look like. You have to drink so that you still can't tell. Sexy, like, fitness is sexy because you see people.

• 18:06Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 18:07Speaker 02

  Honest and raw and who they are, how they move their body, how they push themselves. You see a lot about someone. So I think you're getting a way better, essentially, kind of view of a person, of a human being.

• 18:19Jen Cohen?

  Hundred percent.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  As a mate, as a potential mate.

• 18:21Jen Cohen?

  Well, I think that's also like, you know, people who like sweat together, whatever together, you know, like.

• 18:27Speaker 02

  Pheromones and stuff.

• 18:28Jen Cohen?

  Pheromones, I think, I agree, I think it's super sexy, but more than that, I also think it's like you're, it's, it's, you're, you're doing, you're, you're doing an experience together. And that's kind of bonds people versus like drinking at a bar, right? Like, to me, it's like, okay, like, I'm glad to see this as like a uptick in terms of, because for a while, I mean, younger people aren't even like dating as much, right? So like.

• 18:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, they seem to be struggling in the dating.

• 18:54Jen Cohen?

  They're struggling with the dating stuff. So like, the fact that like running clubs have become like such a big thing in terms of for dating and for socializing and, what was the other one? Oh, I know. I just came back from Miami and I, one thing that.

• 19:11Speaker 02

  Is that where the town is from, huh?

• 19:13Jen Cohen?

  Well, yes.

• 19:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. I could see something. It's a little glow.

• 19:19Jen Cohen?

  What I was gonna say is, you know what's massive in Miami that has not made it to the West Coast yet? Something called paddle or padel. I don't know how to say it.

• 19:28Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:29Jen Cohen?

  So you know how like pickleball has been like taken over the world and especially, well, everywhere? Paddle is really big in Europe and it's become very big in Miami on the East Coast. And they, it's, there is such a vibe and such a community around it. People exercise and like they're obviously, it's, it's great exercise. It's really a great vibe.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  What's the difference between pickleball and paddle?

• 19:51Jen Cohen?

  I'm gonna tell you. It's also like they built like a whole community around it where like people are like members at like multiple clubs. There's paddle clubs, like, you know, membership paddle clubs and like you talk to people, you watch other people play, you play a game. And to me, this is like, this is to me what it's gonna like, I believe it's gonna like take over pickleball pretty soon. It hasn't yet made it, like I said, to the West Coast. There's a few places here in LA that do it, but it's not a vibe yet. But it's so fun. I feel like there's a little bit, an element of more of an athletic element to it. I don't know why. You're doing it more in a, in a, in a cage, like what you have like walls or whatever you wanna call it.

• 20:35Jen Cohen?

  But to answer your question, how is it different than pickleball? I don't know. I'm not, I'm not a big fan of pickleball. I haven't played it very much. You know, pickleball has like a kitchen, the whole thing. I don't know, but I really like it's, that's what they call it. The ball's different. It's a plastic ball in pickleball. Paddle is, or padel, I don't, again, sorry.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  I like padel. Let's call it padel.

• 20:54Jen Cohen?

  It's really big for like people from Argentina. It's like Brazilian, like it's a very big, that's why.

• 20:59Speaker 02

  And that's why Miami.

• 21:00Jen Cohen?

  And that's why Miami, it's become a massive thing that you use a tennis ball. So I think a lot of former tennis players play it, but it's super fun. Like what, I guess the reason why I'm bringing it up is like, to me, these are really great ways to engage with people and socialize and build relationships in a setting that's like fun, interactive, experiential.

• 21:23Jen Cohen?

  And to and like then you're like you're then like with like minded people who want to be active doing something fun. And so for anybody who doesn't know what if you're living in a place where you should check your local listing and see if you should go find a Padel place. It's so fun. It's so fun.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:41Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  I know they have one in Century City Mall.

• 21:44Jen Cohen?

  I know.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  Down the street.

• 21:45Jen Cohen?

  I'm gonna so I literally just got back from Miami. I'm gonna go check it out because a bunch of people I put it on my social media. I was like, oh, I'm at I'm playing Padel. All these people were like, hey, you know what, like, there is one in LA on top of, you know, Centres in the Mall. So I am going to look. But like I said, part of the whole culture of paddle is that you I think there's like events around it that people like hang out and they work.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. My brother's in real estate and I don't know if he does pickle or Padel. But one of the two or maybe both is is like a huge networking thing for them.

• 22:21Jen Cohen?

  It's it's great for networking. It's great for business. It's great for socializing. Like, there's so many benefits to it.

• 22:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:28Jen Cohen?

  I think this to me is where the future of fitness and social and business collides. Like, I think the the collision here is fitness and and professional and personal meet.

• 22:44Speaker 02

  I agree. Even work has, you know, taken a has lost its social function because people are working from home or they're doing hybrid models or, you know, they're not on work campuses, you know, these offices are closing down on the left, right, all this office space is for lease everywhere.

• 22:59Jen Cohen?

  Everywhere.

• 23:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, people are closing down their offices and working from home and cutting the expenses. So people need, we need a way to hang out with each other. And I think play, especially physical play, is the best way for human beings to hang out with each other.

• 23:14Jen Cohen?

  Totally. I totally agree. And so, yeah, so maybe, you know, we should go play.

• 23:19Speaker 02

  I'm down.

• 23:20Jen Cohen?

  Play together.

• 23:20Speaker 02

  We should Padel.

• 23:21Jen Cohen?

  We should Padel.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  I'm down.

• 23:24Jen Cohen?

  I know. And my girlfriend Carrie got me into it there in Miami. And her and her fiance are like, super into it. And it was really fun. And like I like I said, like, I just think it was like, it's a really, I think it's like, gonna be pickleball, you know.

• 23:39Speaker 02

  Two point.

• 23:39Jen Cohen?

  Two point oh, two point oh, yeah. You know, and also, you know, it's really interesting. Do you know that pickleball has more injuries than like any other sport?

• 23:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, actually, it kind of makes sense now that I think about it.

• 23:51Jen Cohen?

  You know, one of my best friends, I'm gonna shout out to Mimi, one of my best friends. She was like a big pickleball player and like she was playing pickleball. This is like a couple of years ago, maybe a year ago. And she got like, she like fell backwards, hit her head and got like a major concussion.

• 24:07Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 24:07Jen Cohen?

  And like supposedly like when she went to the ER, they're like.

• 24:10Speaker 02

  She's just quite clumsy.

• 24:12Jen Cohen?

  I don't know how clumsy she is. I don't think.

• 24:14Speaker 02

  This happened to her a lot?

• 24:15Jen Cohen?

  I don't know. I should ask her.

• 24:16Speaker 02

  I feel like people like that.

• 24:17Jen Cohen?

  Maybe, maybe. I don't know. You're right. I don't know. But she went to the ER and I remember she told me like she was not the first person there that day.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  With pickleball related injuries.

• 24:28Jen Cohen?

  It was like, she was like number six. So, you know, that's really, and another exercise or like another thing that is, has massive injuries. Like you would never think, mountain biking, mountain biking.

• 24:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I had a motorcycle injury that really got me.

• 24:46Jen Cohen?

  That's not, that's not the same. No one should ever go on a motorcycle. That's 100%.

• 24:52Speaker 02

  Unless you've actually been on one before, in which case you.

• 24:54Jen Cohen?

  I know, it's my friend.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  Have you ever ridden one?

• 24:57Jen Cohen?

  No.

• 24:57Speaker 02

  Have you ever been on the back of one?

• 24:58Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, like when I was younger, younger and stupider.

• 25:00Speaker 02

  I'm not telling anyone to do it, but motorcycling is, let's be honest, dangerous. It is the, probably the most fun you could possibly have.

• 25:12Jen Cohen?

  Really? Okay. Well, let's not, let's not, let's not promote.

• 25:14Speaker 02

  I'm not promoting.

• 25:15Jen Cohen?

  And, and you know, make that a thing. No one should go on a motorcycle ever. I know a lot of people have died on a motorcycle. You can die doing anything. Look at me. Do you know what I did to myself? Do you see this big bump on my head?

• 25:29Speaker 02

  Hmm, I guess, yeah.

• 25:31Jen Cohen?

  Do you know what? Okay. Like this, that's what I'm saying. Anything can happen anywhere. Okay? The, I, I got this bump just to kind of give you like a, my trunk was opened and it was dark. And like a, like a complete dumbass person like I am. I just walked right into the corner of the trunk being, you know, being open. I bumped my head so badly, I like basically like passed out, bleeding. But I'm saying like, you never know what can happen from a minute to minute.

• 26:01Speaker 02

  You should definitely not ride a motorcycle.

• 26:04Jen Cohen?

  I don't plan to.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely.

• 26:06Jen Cohen?

  Intentionally, I should say.

• 26:07Speaker 02

  Definitely do not.

• 26:08Jen Cohen?

  Okay, well, anyway, so this is our little chit chat for today. Thank you for coming on the show.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  Thank you. I look forward to being your Padel partner.

• 26:14Jen Cohen?

  Yes, we're gonna, we're gonna actually schedule that. That's really a good idea.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:17Jen Cohen?

  Everyone try Padel. Also, if you have not subscribed, guys, please subscribe. It makes a big difference. I want to hear from you. I want to know what you want to, what do you want me to talk about? Any topics you're just interested in? Any guests you'd want me to try to get for the show? Please, it should be an open dialogue here. So with that being said, thank you for being here.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me.

• 26:39Jen Cohen?

  And Happy New Year to everybody. Bye.