#347 - The Ancient Greek Technique to Gain Super Human Memory | Nelson Dellis

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Nelson Dellis ( @NelsonDellis ) is a 6x USA Memory Champion and one of the leading memory experts in the world. SPONSORS https://butcherbox.com/danny - Get free turkey or ham in your first box, or choose ground beef for life - PLUS $20 off your first order. https://www.ridge.com/dannyjones - Use code DANNYJONES for 10% off Ridge. http://hexclad.com/danny - Find your forever cookware & get 10% off Hexclad. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off EPISODE LINKS Nelson's YouTube channel: @NelsonDellis https://www.instagram.com/nelzor https://www.nelsondellis.com FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Becoming a memory expert 04:09 - Memorization techniques in Ancient Greece 07:29 - Origins of the memory palace technique 17:54 - How memory competitions work 24:05 - How to remember what you read 31:39 - Countries with the best memories 36:01 - Ancient memory techniques 45:05 - Memory isn't stored in the brain 01:01:14 - Training for remote viewing 01:14:50 - Dalia Burgoin & explanation for remote viewing 01:22:37 - Faking memory & psionic abilities 01:30:39 - Bijay Shahi & memorizing books 01:42:06 - Psychic abilities that everyone has 01:49:03 - DMT & memory 01:54:57 - Live remote viewing demonstration 02:16:09 - Itzahk Bentov & the bell curve of consciousness 02:25:25 - Sky watching with the Bledsoes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 1:07Danny Jones?

  Nelson?

• 1:07Speaker 03

  Yes?

• 1:08Danny Jones?

  How the [bleep] you become a memory champion?

• 1:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. Trust me, when I was a kid, I never thought that I'd be one or have anything to do with a good memory. But I started, wow, it's like since 2009-ish, because my grandmother had Alzheimer's and I was concerned for myself if that was my future. I was young, I was in my twenties, so not a problem that was near, nearby, but I just was curious. What could I do now to improve my memory? And one of the first things I discovered was these memory competitions. And low and behold, the people who compete in these things can do phenomenal feats of memory through trained practice. And that was the hook for me that was just like, okay, well, maybe I could do that. And it just kind of took off from there.

• 1:57Danny Jones?

  So you decided you wanted to learn like tricks to improve your memory and that's how you discovered there's this whole like Olympic circuit of memory champions that compete all around the world.

• 2:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08Danny Jones?

  And then so, so what did you start doing to, how, how did you work your way up to this level? Cause I'm sure there's like a lot of work that has to be done until you can like get to that level.

• 2:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, you know, I, I didn't know at first, like when I first was interested in memory in general, I was like, well, I want to improve my memory, but like, what can I do? What are tangible things I can do? And then when I heard about the memory championship, I was like, okay, here are records and events that happen at a competition that are measured. I can use those as like benchmarks to train myself, you know? It gives me a quantifiable thing that I can work towards.

• 2:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:42Speaker 03

  And so that was really helpful for me because I need goal oriented steps like that to master things. And yeah, I just kept getting better. I had meticulous notes on my performance and I would train, I would train my, uh, memorization of numbers, memorization of playing cards, names, lists of words, all the things that were in the competition.

• 3:02Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:03Speaker 03

  And I just try to get better and better, try to get to the current record that existed at that time.

• 3:07Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:08Speaker 03

  All with the goal of, you know, just bettering my memory, not necessarily to win or be the best, but it just became such an obsession of mine.

• 3:15Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:16Speaker 03

  To train every day, every, every minute, I'd just be trying to memorize stuff.

• 3:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah. So, so like, one of the biggest questions for me is what is the main difference? Because like, obviously I'm sure everybody has somebody in their life that they've encountered that just has a natural like good memory or has a better memory than that, than they do, right?

• 3:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:35Danny Jones?

  And we've all like, I've heard the term of people having photographic memories or, um, different types of like memories, like, but you, you just equate that with somebody like being smarter, having a higher IQ. But like, what is the difference between somebody who's just really smart at remembering things and somebody who can memorize a deck of cards? Is there a difference?

• 3:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a, that's a tough question to answer. Um, I'd say. Humans generally have the same memory abilities. You know, obviously, like you said, there's people that just have a knack for names or they just remember all sorts of facts. You've had, you've talked with Jesse, right?

• 4:13Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:13Speaker 03

  His memory of facts is just insane.

• 4:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 4:17Speaker 03

  I don't have that, like, I can't naturally do that. I have to use my techniques and some people can do that. And he probably can't tell you how he's able to do that. He's just got that. And that's hard to pin down why one person may have that versus another. But we all have that ability to train it in a sense. You know, some people think more visually, some people maybe focus more or are more around things that are of more interest to them. So that's the kind of things that they remember. It really depends on their life circumstance and experience, but I'm not denying that there's people who have a knack for that. But I don't know if it's like an easy thing to explain why they do or they don't, but

• 5:01Speaker 03

  there are techniques to kind of get to that place and with training you can get a lot better to a point like that.

• 5:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah, one of the, one of the things that blew my mind about this whole memory stuff, this whole, this whole, there's like this whole world of memory training and like, just like the study of, and the fascination of memory and it goes back to like way back into ancient Greek stuff. And there's like Isemonides, which is talked about in the book, the Einstein moonwalking with Einstein book, who I guess was in like the fourth century or whatever, and he was a performer, I think. And he was like performing music in front of people and then the whole place crumbled. And he was trying to like use his visual memory to figure out where people were so he could like pull the bodies out.

• 5:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:45Danny Jones?

  And, and you know, that book also like spends a lot of time delving into like ancient Greek literature and how like the style of writing changed and went from scrolls to actual codexes where there was pages and like, you know, I was talking to a classicist buddy of mine this morning. I was like, I was like, how do these people back then like go through if they wanted to find something written in a scroll, how would you figure out how to do it? Because like there's no, there's no breaks in the words. It's just never ending words with no breaks, no punctuation on a long scroll.

• 6:20Speaker 03

  There are no spaces, right?

• 6:20Danny Jones?

  Like, he's like, no, you didn't. You had, the people had to have better memories. So that was just like a, that was like a huge value. That they had back then was like being able to memorize shit.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:31Danny Jones?

  Just like wild and we're, it just seems like, obviously I've talked about this at nauseam on just with the folks that I've had through here. Is that people are losing their memory because they're over, they're using technology to compensate for it nowadays. And it seems like it's going, that road leads to somewhere where we're going to have basically no memory left.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, memory is something that we've always needed up until somewhat recently. And like you said, because we have all these other tools that can replace it, um, we don't use it as much. But the fact is that thousands of years ago, and even before the Greeks, this was how information was passed down through civilizations. Traditions were shared to the next generation without those memory skills, none of that would have survived. And you had to have that if you wanted to be an intelligent person or to carry on your, you know, city or towns lore or whatever. You had to have that, that trained memory. There was no other option.

• 7:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 7:34Speaker 03

  Or it would wither away, right?

• 7:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 7:37Speaker 03

  And what's fascinating about, yeah, I've heard the, the Simonity story. I didn't know, I haven't heard the performer side of it. I always thought he was someone.

• 7:44Danny Jones?

  It actually wasn't, it wasn't, maybe he was a poet, but I think, um, I think he was like a musical poet and he would do performances.

• 7:52Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 7:52Danny Jones?

  You know, cause I think most of the stuff back then was musical, especially Homer. So it was all, I don't know if, I don't believe that it was, I'm not sure, but I don't think it was, it wasn't musical as a, um, on purpose to help people remember it. It was just musical because I think in, uh, around the time of Homer. And up until, I don't know, like the second century or something like this, that the Greeks just spoke in rhythms.

• 8:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:21Danny Jones?

  They spoke musically. They didn't just, they didn't speak like me and you do. It was, it was rhythmic and it had a beat, it had like a flow to it. Which is crazy.

• 8:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. But I mean, the, the story is somewhat that he stepped out or was summoned outside and then the whole thing crashed all the.

• 8:37Danny Jones?

  There it goes. Lyric poet. Yeah.

• 8:38Speaker 03

  Oh, there you go. Yeah. But yeah, to come to, to identify the dead bodies who had been crushed by this collapsing hall or whatever. He imagined the positions of the people at the table, their locations, and that spawned this idea. Well, I don't know if it necessarily spawned it, but that's the famous story where people talk about this memory palace idea.

• 8:58Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 8:59Speaker 03

  Where by location, you can actually place information and remember it really well because our brains remember spatial information really well.

• 9:06Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. Yeah, I did that exercise in the book, in the Einstein book, and it works phenomenally.

• 9:12Speaker 03

  Isn't it surprising?

• 9:13Danny Jones?

  It's incredible.

• 9:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:14Danny Jones?

  So you, so the idea is like, if you want to memorize something, right? Anything you kind of like break it into chunks. And then you basically associate it with a physical location?

• 9:27Speaker 03

  Yep. So there's a few parts to it, right? First, you have the information that you're trying to memorize and it's usually going to be something abstract. You know, in terms of our brains don't really like to memorize numbers and passwords, right? This is all abstract symbols, right? Generally, so that in recent times, we've, we've, they're new, they're new for our brains. Our brains were not designed to memorize stuff like that. It's memorized, designed to memorize pictures, visuals that have associations to things that we know. That's one part of it, converting what you're trying to memorize into pictures. The second part is how do you organize that? Where do you place it in your mind so that you can go back and retrieve it in a reliable way?

• 10:08Speaker 03

  And that's where the memory palace technique comes in so handy because you're placing it or attaching it to a physical location that you know well that you're thinking about. So when you go through your house or palace, if you have a palace, um, you know, you have these ordered locations in your house, you walk through your front door, then there's the kitchen over here and the stairways, whatever. You can attach images for things that you're memorizing on those locations. And the location preserves the memory of the order of things and the structure and the organization, right? Which is when people try to recall things and they forget it's, it's not that they forgot. It's really that they can't retrieve it, right? Sometimes they know it's in their mind, they just can't get it out. Cause they didn't have an active way of placing it knowingly in their brain.

• 10:52Speaker 03

  That's the big problem, right?

• 10:54Danny Jones?

  So when you did these memory competitions, what sort of shit did you have to remember? And did you have to go around to a bunch of like locations and store stuff?

• 11:04Speaker 03

  In my mind, yeah.

• 11:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 11:05Speaker 03

  Um, not physically, but uh, yeah.

• 11:08Danny Jones?

  No, that's what I mean. Like you had to go to a place and like walk around and be like, okay, I'm going to put this thing here.

• 11:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. You know, as a trained memory athlete will have. Dozens to a hundred or hundreds of memory palaces, different ones to store different kinds of things.

• 11:22Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 11:23Speaker 03

  Depending on the size of the information, you need more locations.

• 11:26Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 11:27Speaker 03

  So I have this whole like catalog of memory palaces that I go through.

• 11:30Danny Jones?

  Amazing dude.

• 11:31Speaker 03

  And on a competition day, yeah, I've got to go through the different ones. Okay, I'm going to use, you know, my childhood home for this set of numbers. I'm going to use my ex-girlfriend's apartment for this one. Um, a hotel I I stayed in once that was memorable and on this vacation for this set of numbers and whatever.

• 11:48Danny Jones?

  So how do you organize all of that? You just, you just like, if, if, let's say, let's just say you picked up a book you want to memorize, right?

• 11:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:54Danny Jones?

  Tomorrow you go and buy a book you want to memorize. So you would say, you say, how would that process work for you? Where you would, you would read the book and then you would afterwards think of a, a location that you haven't already used to store memory and associate it, like spend time sitting there, working through where to store each memory of each chapter of that book.

• 12:13Speaker 03

  Right, yeah, there's a few things to go into that. First is, you know, I have memory palaces that I use for training. When I memorize numbers every day or cards every day, I'm kind of visiting the same ones that are kind of designed for that. But then if it's new information, like say I have a book plopped on my desk and I'm going to memorize it, I'm going to create a new memory palace for that specific information. So when I want to recall information from that book, I know it's only in that memory palace that I designed for it. So then the question is, okay, what do I build? Like, or what do I think of? What's the memory palace? I need to decide what is the route? Is it, well, the place, first of all, is it, I mean, I could create one on the spot or I could go to a museum and decide, oh, this will be, I'm just going to map this into a memory palace.

• 12:55Speaker 03

  Or I can use some place that I've been to that I haven't thought of as a memory palace yet.

• 12:59Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 13:00Speaker 03

  And then I need to know, what am I memorizing? How much information is there?

• 13:03Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 13:04Speaker 03

  So I know how many locations I need.

• 13:06Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 13:07Speaker 03

  So that's a big part of mapping out, especially a big project like that, memorizing a book.

• 13:11Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 13:11Speaker 03

  Like in my memory, you mean every single word, like verbatim or just generally the important things?

• 13:17Danny Jones?

  Key ideas.

• 13:18Speaker 03

  Key ideas, stuff that I want to take away, you know? That also depends, right? Like, when you're going to memorize something, what are you actually going to memorize? And is it important to memorize everything or can I just? You know, is there certain stuff that I already kind of know or can piece together through logic?

• 13:35Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 13:35Speaker 03

  And the rest, maybe are some other points I need to memorize.

• 13:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 13:38Speaker 03

  Deciding that's important, too, before you like go out and waste all this memory palace, real estate on, you know, stuff that actually isn't that important to memorize.

• 13:48Danny Jones?

  Right. That's fascinating because I was telling you before we started recording that like sometimes I'm listening to audiobooks, I can recall, like if I'm listening to it driving from here to my house, I'll drive that same route the next day and I'll have that moment pop into my head when I was listening to the audiobook, right when I drove past like a specific building or something like that.

• 14:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:10Danny Jones?

  It's so weird that like there, there is a legitimate association that's like hardwired into us with physical locations and like learning stuff.

• 14:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And it's the same with music, right? Imagine the first time you heard this album that is so important to you.

• 14:24Danny Jones?

  Teleport you.

• 14:24Speaker 03

  You can be right there, like I know where I was when I first heard this, or you have these strong memories of when you were blasting that song or who you were with. You know, it's, it's something about music. I think it goes way back past Simonides that as humans generally, we are, you know, our brains are storytelling machines through stories and music and poetry and, and beats and rhythm. That's how we remember things. That's how we were able to survive and pass on ideas, which is ultimately how we were able to survive.

• 14:55Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 14:56Speaker 03

  Modern day, now we don't need to do that, but that's how we had to.

• 15:00Danny Jones?

  Is it smell also like super hardcore linked with memory?

• 15:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 15:04Danny Jones?

  I think that was like the most, the sense that is the most commonly associated with memory, right?

• 15:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was, who was I just talking to about this? I was training somebody and they were asking me, oh.

• 15:14Danny Jones?

  Well, the memory champion can't remember something. Look at this.

• 15:17Speaker 03

  I forget, I do forget. You could ask my wife, she's the, the one that can attest to that the most, but um. But no, we were talking about how she was like, oh, I've heard that memory is really strong for, for, for a smell is really strongly related to memory. I was like, yeah, yeah, it is. And she was saying, oh, if I can just turn my images and I'm memorizing into smells, then I'll remember it faster or better. And I was like, in theory, yes. And, and smell memory is so potent. I mean, if you get a whiff of something from say, your kindergarten class, like, there used to be these like, letter boards from when I went to kindergarten, I guess. And I remember years ago, I came across the same thing.

• 16:00Speaker 03

  And I was like, wow, what a nostalgic thing. And I sniffed it. And I was like, you know, in the matrix.

• 16:05Danny Jones?

  Teleported.

• 16:05Speaker 03

  Teleported. I was there, right? And I'm sure many people have had a similar experience.

• 16:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 16:12Speaker 03

  But if I were to ask you to just imagine, I don't know, a certain smell, like, I mean, there's certain polarizing smells, like smoke, you could probably imagine, right? The smell of smoke. But in terms of your imagination right now, if you're thinking about it, it's kind of elusive. Like, you can describe it, yeah, it's like a bitter, smoky smell. But are you really experiencing it in your mind when you, when you imagine a smell? Probably not. Versus if I said, a picture of an elephant, you can almost see the elephant.

• 16:46Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 16:46Speaker 03

  Right? So the smell thing, I think, is super powerful when you can get it to hit, like you get the experience, but like to actually conjure it up in your memory is difficult because you have to have the right words to describe it. And it's, it's not like a, like a true visceral experience when you imagine it in your, your, your, your visual space, you know?

• 17:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah, you can't just like, pull that up at will, like that smell, you know?

• 17:08Speaker 03

  Like, I remember, I remember thinking about this years ago, when I was just starting memory stuff, and I had gone to wash my hands. I had this soap that smelled really like marzipan-y, and I loved marzipan. And I went back to my table, and I was like, I wonder if I could like, try to generate that smell in my mind. And it had gone, you know, it's like I couldn't, I could say it was marzipan smelling, but that was it, you know, it's just like, but if I had smelled it again, it's like, oh yeah, there it is, you know, I don't know what it is about smell that makes it so elusive in that way.

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• 18:54Danny Jones?

  So what type of stuff do you actually have to memorize in these competitions that you do?

• 18:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, it depends on the competition. So there's the US Championship, and then there's like international world championships. And some of them have different standards and events, but the US one is a day-long, and the morning is four different events, memorizing numbers. You have five minutes to memorize as many digits as you can. In a row, then you have a deck of cards. You gotta memorize as fast as possible, like a full deck of playing cards, names and faces. So you get a whole packet of headshots of random people with first and last names. Get 15 minutes to memorize that. And then you have poetry. So it'll give you a randomly, a random unpublished poem, 50 lines, and you

• 19:41Speaker 03

  gotta memorize it for 15 minutes and then recall it. And then the afternoon, the top seven or eight, it changes from year to year, go to like a playoff round on stage, like elimination rounds, and they have to memorize lists of words. There's a tea party event where you have to memorize stuff about people who come on stage and say their name, where they're from, their hobbies, their car they drive, their pet name.

• 20:04Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 20:04Speaker 03

  And then the finale is two decks of cards in five minutes, and it's usually three remaining competitors, and they have to say the next card one by one until.

• 20:15Danny Jones?

  So you have to take a deck of cards and you have to flip through it, and then you have to with, put it down and then recite the order of every single card.

• 20:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, the 104 cards, yeah, two decks.

• 20:24Danny Jones?

  How do you do that?

• 20:26Speaker 03

  A lot of practice, but it's using a memory palace to store different images that represent the cards. That's, that's the very basic idea.

• 20:36Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 20:38Speaker 03

  There are a few different techniques on how to encode the cards into pictures, because it's not like I'm looking at an ace of hearts and thinking of an ace of hearts in my living room. I have a, a person, an action, and an object associated with each card. And that's one of the strategies is to make these cards each have those three components, and then every triplets of cards, I can group as a person doing a thing with an object. It becomes like a little mini scene representing three cards. And I place that in the location of a memory palace. And then the next location, I put three more cards and so on.

• 21:15Speaker 03

  Yeah. So there's a lot going on there. You gotta know your memory palaces really well. You also gotta know your images really well for the cards. Like I look at the ace of hearts. That's my friend Arno. Queen of hearts is my, my, my mother. King of hearts is my dad. I'm the ace of diamonds. Like I know those. So when I see the card, it's like I'm seeing the person, you know, it's so well trained at this point.

• 21:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah. That's wild.

• 21:37Speaker 03

  And same with numbers, it's pretty similar. Yeah.

• 21:39Danny Jones?

  And so do you already have your physical location memory palace in your head before you even like start doing this?

• 21:46Speaker 03

  Right. Yeah. So I have my set of memory palaces that I use for training cards. So the day of or in the finals, let's say, I'm in my mind thinking like, okay, I'm going to use this memory palace. It feels fresh. I haven't used it in a while. It's like clean and ready to be used.

• 22:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah. That's what I was gonna ask you next. I'm like, I was gonna say, can you like, uh, do a reset of a memory palace?

• 22:06Speaker 03

  So we will tape over them.

• 22:08Danny Jones?

  Tape over them. Yeah.

• 22:09Speaker 03

  Through practice. Uh, you, you have to kind of give them some breathing room. If you do them back to back, the same memory palace, you'll have echoes from previous storings.

• 22:18Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 22:18Speaker 03

  Or memories. Um, so you want to avoid that. So that's why I, the memory palace, I'll probably decide to use in a finals. It will be one that I haven't used in maybe a few days. So it's kind of pristine. Like just the, the cleaning lady came in, you know, and brushed it up or whatever.

• 22:34Danny Jones?

  Spring cleaning.

• 22:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. Um, but yeah, and, and even still, like in competition on stage with the competition, the, the championship on the line, like, you know, memory is hugely affected by stress and nerves and in that situation. Like I, I may have it down, but the moment I'm supposed to say the next card, there's been times where uh, I just freeze up, you know, and, and.

• 22:59Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 23:00Speaker 03

  So, yeah.

• 23:01Danny Jones?

  One thing I did recently, um, which wasn't on purpose, this was before I knew anything about any of this memory stuff, was I was, um, I was reading a book and I decided to put a specific, um, Spotify playlist in my headphones while I was reading this book.

• 23:20Danny Jones?

  And I probably read the book, it was probably like a 600 page book. I probably read it in like two weeks. Um, and every time I would sit down to read it for like 30 minutes to an hour. I would just repeat this soundtrack in my ears and for some reason I was able to recall that book better than any other book I've ever read. And that was the only time I've ever done that. It was cool because it was like a sound, it was like a badass. It was a Hans Zimmer soundtrack in my ears while I was listening. So it's like I was watching a movie while I was reading the book.

• 23:48Speaker 03

  That's cool. Do you remember which, which soundtrack it was? Or what, what was?

• 23:51Danny Jones?

  It was the inception soundtrack. And it was Annie Jacobson's nuclear war book.

• 23:55Speaker 03

  Oh goodness. Yeah. That sounds like a really good.

• 23:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it was a good combo.

• 23:59Speaker 03

  Yeah. Cool. And then you just decided to do that. For, was there a specific reason?

• 24:04Danny Jones?

  Cause she was coming on the show to talk about that book. So I was, I was reading it before she came in. And, um, I was, the only time I would read it was, would be before bed. I would just sit in bed for 30, 45 minutes before, before I fall asleep and just put the headphones in and just read, I had the PDF on my laptop. And I would just read, you know, 15, 20 pages with that music in the background.

• 24:27Speaker 03

  And was the music idea like, like a more of a focus thing? Like if I put this track on or this, this album?

• 24:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it would tune out other noises. It would tune out my wife's scrolling Tik Tok next to me and, uh,

• 24:40Speaker 03

  Cool.

• 24:40Danny Jones?

  And it might, I figured it might just lock me in more.

• 24:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:43Danny Jones?

  To the story, you know? And it did. It totally made me feel like I was watching a movie, but reading text.

• 24:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:49Danny Jones?

  And, um, I think it worked.

• 24:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:53Danny Jones?

  I can recall a lot of that book.

• 24:55Speaker 03

  Yeah. Uh, you know, and people will listen to certain kind of music to study, right? Lo-fi beats or whatever.

• 25:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah. I'm wondering though, like if a similar way to the, to the like locations of memory palaces, what if you, for each book you read, you listen to a different soundtrack for each book? I wonder if that would be a similar kind of association you could use.

• 25:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, and we talked about it before we, we started that location. Changing the location of where you read books can also do a similar, um, uh, enhancing of your memory of what you read when, where you were when you read the thing.

• 25:27Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 25:28Speaker 03

  I've never tried it with music other than just to like focus and kind of like you said, drown out noise.

• 25:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 25:34Speaker 03

  And I don't know if that, I don't think that would work with all music, right?

• 25:37Danny Jones?

  No, I don't think so.

• 25:38Speaker 03

  If it's lyric heavy, you're gonna be distracted, right? And you can, even if you can zone or tune out the-

• 25:44Danny Jones?

  It's gotta be instrumental. It can't be like mu-, it can't be like, you know-

• 25:47Speaker 03

  Because your brain is naturally gonna try to listen. And that's this multitasking thing that would be difficult to do, especially if you're reading-

• 25:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 25:55Speaker 03

  -something else at the same time.

• 25:55Danny Jones?

  Do you notice any difference, uh, when it comes to retaining information when you compare listening to books versus actually reading books?

• 26:04Speaker 03

  Totally. Uh, I'm all about like analog.

• 26:08Danny Jones?

  Um, yeah.

• 26:09Speaker 03

  Not that I always do that, cuz I, I also appreciate, uh, my time and I have so much to do that I'll listen often to just audiobooks and at 2X, you know, at certain times, which isn't great.

• 26:22Danny Jones?

  Um, yeah.

• 26:22Speaker 03

  But I, I'm really good at deciding what I want to put, uh, to, to absorb as an audiobook at a faster speed, you know? Um, it's usually stuff that's, like a self-help book will be very repetitive. Um, you know, if there's an interesting part that I really wanna kind of like absorb better or focus in on, I'll slow it down, maybe even repeat it a few times. But, um, if there's other books that I really wanna savor, you know, I slow down. Um, and I'll often try to do it in like analog form. Hold the book, read the-

• 26:54Danny Jones?

  The actual book, yeah.

• 26:55Speaker 03

  Read in the different places. Um, that's hard to know, like what necessarily a book, wh-, which book would deserve that, unless it's kind of pre-planned. Like, for example, I love Lord of the Rings. And I try to reread that every year and I will all-

• 27:09Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 27:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I will never listen to it on an audiobook. I would need the book that smells and like has been worn, you know? Um, and I need to read some of it sitting by the fire when it's kinda cold and, and near the end of the year, Christmas time, you know? Um, that's important to me. Um, but then there's books that I just like need to get through or want to get through. And it's like, I have the general idea of what it's trying to say, but I don't need to listen to every single, um, thing, uh, with in- intense focus that I remember it, you know, verbatim.

• 27:41Danny Jones?

  Is that the primary reason why people would claim that you can retain stuff better when you actually read the physical book versus listening to it? Because of the other associations, like the touch, the feel, the smell, the location of it?

• 27:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, going back to what I said at the start, that we remember- Pictures of things like visuals, like what is a visual? A visual is all of your senses interacting. It's not, I know the word is visual, so it sounds like it's just your eyes or your mind's eye, but it's all of that. So if you can incorporate that into a sitting of reading, like you can touch the book, you're holding some physical object in a space.

• 28:18Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 28:18Speaker 03

  That, you know, um, and you're, you know, you got the pages there and you can see the words. I think that's more of a memorable experience than something zipping through your ear. Although, you know, you remembered some of it where you were driving, right?

• 28:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 28:32Speaker 03

  But I, I think there's more going on when you have.

• 28:33Danny Jones?

  But I've driven that same route, listening to hundreds of different books and podcasts. So it's kind of like.

• 28:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 28:39Danny Jones?

  Not a very good memory palace. It's my daily drive, basically, you know?

• 28:44Speaker 03

  Have you tried making any other memory palaces besides the one in the example in?

• 28:48Danny Jones?

  I did the example in the book in, in my mom's house, but I haven't tried making any others yet. And I, you know what? Now that I think about it, I forgot the one that I created during the book. But I like it. My point was that feels like a task in itself to do that, to sit down and actually think through a memory palace and associate something with it. But now I'm like, I really wanted to buy like a, I can't remember the last time I read a paper book.

• 29:11Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 29:12Danny Jones?

  You know, it's either always audio or it's the, um, the digital PDF version.

• 29:16Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 29:17Danny Jones?

  So like, it's got me really motivated to like actually buy a physical book and pick a unique spot and like, and I also like the way you broke it, broke it down in your video on your YouTube channel. Like you're like, this is 500 page or 400 pages. It will take me eight 30 minute chunks to finish this. I can do it here, here and here. Like that was great, dude.

• 29:35Speaker 03

  No, I don't do that all the time, but there's books that I just like want to get through. I, and I'm having a hard time, you know, getting my reading done for whatever is going on in my life. Like breaking it down into these chunks like that I can visualize is super helpful.

• 29:49Danny Jones?

  Right, right. Which is, that's helpful for me too, because like one of the biggest parts of me preparing for podcasts is reading shit, like reading books or listening to podcasts or whatever. And it's really hard for me to structure my life around reading a book.

• 30:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:00Danny Jones?

  Especially when it's text, like I can do it. I'm driving, I'm at the gym or I'm walking with my kids or whatever. But like, you know, that's a really special and like important skill and tool, I feel like to have, especially when it like, it goes hand in hand with doing podcasts with people that write these books, you know?

• 30:18Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, it's, it's, it's intentional. Like when you, you know, when you can do stuff while you're on the go doing something else. Yeah, that's great. You know, you're killing two birds with one stone, but. If you can take the time to sit down with a book, like you're saying something with that experience. And of course, it's going to be more memorable when you have that intention going in.

• 30:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:37Speaker 03

  And that's really, and you hit it on the head that where, you know, doing a memory palace exercise is a lot of work to do, but that's the whole point, I think. It's like, if I strip down what memory techniques are, it's really just paying a lot of attention to something, like through these elaborate methods, you know, like sitting down, thinking of this place to store these images and coming up with images for the thing.

• 30:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:01Speaker 03

  You're really spending a lot of time devoted to that, those units of information, you know?

• 31:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:06Speaker 03

  And the same goes for the book, right? Like if you sit down, hold it, read it, interact with it, like take notes, underline stuff, like on the paper, like hear the sound of you scratching, you know, underline there, like that means something.

• 31:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, totally.

• 31:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

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• 32:39Danny Jones?

  Um, what country takes the most wins when it comes to these international memory championships?

• 32:44Speaker 03

  Good question. It fluctuates. During my era, my heyday was the Germans.

• 32:48Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 32:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Man.

• 32:51Danny Jones?

  No shit, the Germans?

• 32:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, they were.

• 32:53Danny Jones?

  I wouldn't have expected that.

• 32:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. And then it switched to the Swedes for a second. And now, and there was the Mongolians, that they have like crazy schools in Mongolia where they just teach this stuff to little kids.

• 33:06Danny Jones?

  Teach memory stuff?

• 33:07Speaker 03

  Memory, they have memory schools, yeah.

• 33:09Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 33:10Speaker 03

  They're wild. Those, those records, I don't even know what the records are these days. And then Chinese, they, they've done crazy stuff recently too. Yeah.

• 33:19Danny Jones?

  Well, the Chinese are really good at math, right? Because their, their language is somehow tied into math, I think.

• 33:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, they, they have shorter syllable, syllable, syllabic words for the digits zero through nine. So, you know, when you think of digit span tests where like we can hold numbers in our head. We have numbers like seven, two, two syllables, right? Zero, right, is two syllables, whereas they're all just one. So if you think about how we can recite a number in our head, they can on average, recite longer number, or, or hold longer numbers in their memory with no techniques, just by reciting in their mind.

• 33:54Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 33:55Speaker 03

  The number over and over again, because they can say more in the span of a, a passing thought, you know?

• 34:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah, totally. Well, I feel like definitely, I feel like I absolutely remember the stuff I'm most interested in the most. Right? Like, like in school, when you're forced to learn stuff that you're not really interested in, you're just sort of like going through the process of passing this grade, passing this class. I don't feel like most kids are in, into any of that stuff. Like if there, if there's something I'm reading that I'm really into, I will absolutely recall it way better, right? And that's like pulls you through the book in itself when you're really interested in that topic.

• 34:31Speaker 03

  So that's the power of attention, you know, we are we direct our attention to something. The more intensely we do that, the more we're focused on it and the more you remember. Yeah. And and part that's kind of the heart of of the encoding process of the memory techniques is, how do I turn that complicated, dry thing into something that like lights up my brain in an exciting way? You know, so all those cards, symbols, ace of hearts, two of clubs. It's just a number and a little fancy picture, right? But what if I look at two of clubs and it's it's Jesus, right? And then four of clubs is Harry Potter, like, that's a lot more interesting.

• 35:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah, totally.

• 35:08Speaker 03

  I can pay attention better.

• 35:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's crazy that like this stuff isn't taught like mainstream at all. It's like super obscure knowledge.

• 35:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:15Danny Jones?

  And that's they teach it in Mongolia.

• 35:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I don't know what who decided to to create schools for.

• 35:22Danny Jones?

  Oh, look, Mongolia, China, Vietnam frequently rank among the top countries in memory skills.

• 35:26Speaker 03

  Vietnam's come up. Yeah, that's true.

• 35:28Danny Jones?

  Mongolia holds the top position. Wow. Yeah, I wonder why? Why do they value memory more than the other? To teach that to kids, you know?

• 35:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, I love that. And Vietnam has some schools now, too. Algeria, I didn't know that. India, yeah, makes sense. The US had a stretch. I I didn't do great at the world championships. I think my best was like seventh place, but there was a guy after me, Alex Mullen, who won the the world championships twice, I believe, or three times.

• 35:56Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 35:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:57Danny Jones?

  But he was US?

• 35:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, US guy.

• 35:59Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 36:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:01Danny Jones?

  Mongolians have a strong memory due to a combination of cultural traditions, formal training and modern education focus on mental athletics. Mental athletics, wow. Historically, nomadic life required memorization, memorizing extensive information without the written word. While today, national curricula and specialized academics actively train memory techniques, contributing to their success in memory competitions. That's really, really interesting.

• 36:30Speaker 03

  Life like I have a few friends through the memory world in from Mongolia and their nomadic tradition is is very strong. I don't want to speak too much because I don't know, but I can see that their traditions there are important to them. So I would mention that.

• 36:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah, well, it's weird that Socrates refused to write anything down.

• 36:49Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 36:50Danny Jones?

  You know?

• 36:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:52Danny Jones?

  It's so, uh, it's kind of ironic because, you know, thanks to all the people around and they're writing shit down, we know about them.

• 36:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. Um, what's interesting about, you know, these old tales of, of, of memories and memory palace, like the, the Simon of these stories and the ancient Greek methods. I mean, I, when I first started this, that's all I had heard that these were ancient Greek techniques developed by the ancient Greeks. But that's not necessarily true. I mean,

• 37:19Danny Jones?

  Oh, had it a long way before.

• 37:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. And other civilizations have versions of this. I mean, in, in Africa, there were tribes that would use these, I think they're called Lakusas, which are these, uh, kind of memory boards, these pieces of wood that they would stick, um, shells or little rocks and that would be their tangible memory palace and they could store or imagine parts of their oral tradition or, um, uh, yeah, their traditions on these, these boards and these boards, these physical boards withhold, you know, like visually, um, attached to those, those markers, all those stories and we pass down. There's even stories that like the, the, the, the Nasca lines were potentially

• 38:03Speaker 03

  memory palaces to store information. Yeah. I don't know where I heard that one, but, uh,

• 38:07Danny Jones?

  The Nasca lines were memory palaces?

• 38:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:11Danny Jones?

  I don't know. That's bizarre.

• 38:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. There's a, a lady in Australia, Lynn Kelly. She wrote a book called The Memory Code and it talks about all these past, civilizations and how they use versions of memory palaces or memory techniques to pass on traditions. And it's so pervasive. It means it's everywhere.

• 38:28Danny Jones?

  There was a, there was a quote, uh, my friend was telling me from the Orphic texts where they said, like, "I am a child of the sea and the sky. Bring me to the water of memory," or something like that. When, see, find out when the Orphic cults were, or the Orphic.

• 38:44Speaker 03

  I'm not familiar.

• 38:44Danny Jones?

  When were the Orphics walking around?

• 38:48Speaker 03

  Sounds like something from Lord of the Rings.

• 38:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah. They wrote it on gold sheets when they buried their dead. Okay. Orphicism was ancient Greek mystery religion that flourished around sixth to fifth.

• 39:00Speaker 03

  Okay. Interesting.

• 39:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 39:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 39:06Speaker 03

  Yeah. Never heard of that.

• 39:07Danny Jones?

  Um, oh, wow. Everybody wrote about that stuff. Yeah. It's, it's, um,

• 39:14Danny Jones?

  It's so, it's so interesting because like those cultures were obviously like

• 39:22Danny Jones?

  way more intel, like I know it's a different way of thinking, but like it's like they were way more intellectually advanced.

• 39:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:30Danny Jones?

  And tapped into something else that we aren't now. It's like there's this, there's this weird correlation with

• 39:39Danny Jones?

  the, the atrophy of the, I don't know what, how well it's to call it, but like the psychic mind and like technology.

• 39:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:47Danny Jones?

  You know, and like, it seems like back then it was that deeper, more intellectual, quote unquote psychic mind was, was more a part of their, was more woven into culture and society and it led to things like, you know, the creation of democracy, the scientific method. People like, you know, Aristotle and Socrates and all these people that were just like these incredible philosophers who are writing stuff that we recite today.

• 40:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:20Danny Jones?

  You know, you know what I mean? Like there's, it doesn't seem, it seems like

• 40:26Danny Jones?

  the, the rise of the technical or analytical mind that we see happening today with people trying to create tech and trying to optimize their day to be people that are trying to be more productive or, or optimized for, you know, return on investment, that sort of part of the brain has atrophied with that, you know?

• 40:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. I often think like, you know, here I am, a memory champ and, you know, I still have to work to memorize the stuff that I'm memorizing. I would love to go back 2000 years and watch one of these people just memorize something. I'm sure it's just so effortless, right?

• 41:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 41:02Speaker 03

  Just like part of everyday things they gotta do. Just like we pick up our phone and send a text, like to pick up something and memorize it. It was probably easier because they knew how to do it, but also because their minds were primed for that. They're doing it all day long.

• 41:14Danny Jones?

  Right. Right.

• 41:15Speaker 03

  And that's all there was. There was nowhere else to put.

• 41:17Danny Jones?

  And Greek, I've had people tell, I've had this, there's a A couple Greek experts, classical scholars I've talked to. And they say that when you learn ancient Greek, it does something to your mind. Like it warps your mind.

• 41:32Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 41:33Danny Jones?

  It sends your mind through through a portal. Where like you think differently. Because there's words that can have, that can mean different things based on context. And there's over 1.2 million unique words in ancient Greek.

• 41:50Speaker 03

  Ancient Greek, so we're not talking about like

• 41:52Danny Jones?

  Not modern Greek, okay. Ancient Greek, 1.2 million. Find out how many unique words are in modern English today.

• 42:01Danny Jones?

  And compare that. So ancient Hebrew was 7,000 unique words.

• 42:06Speaker 03

  Oh, that's it.

• 42:06Danny Jones?

  And the Hebrew stuff was all religious.

• 42:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:09Danny Jones?

  Right? So we have 170,000 uh, unique words in Oxford English Dictionary.

• 42:19Danny Jones?

  Over 1 million would include obsolete words, scientific terms and different word forms.

• 42:26Danny Jones?

  Forty five to 60,000. Okay, a more manageable figure for active vocabularies around 45 to 60,000 words for high school educated adults.

• 42:37Speaker 03

  Plus in modern tech, like the 1 million words coming from scientific terms, like the Greeks didn't have that yet, you know?

• 42:42Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 42:45Speaker 03

  That's crazy.

• 42:46Danny Jones?

  So like, yeah, man. And then that combined with the fact that they were walking around talking in tune and like talking, speaking in rhythm. It's just like, what the fuck would that have been like to walk around there? Communicating with people like, you know, buying and selling and trading and just talking in hymns and songs and

• 43:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:10Danny Jones?

  Dude, it's crazy.

• 43:11Speaker 03

  Think about it.

• 43:11Danny Jones?

  It's wild, you know, because there's so much literature. There's so much ancient literature that's out there and most of it's Greek. And like from like plays to comedians, to philosophers, to religious stuff. And uh, yeah, dude, it was a, it was another fucking world. And like to imagine like how their brains would have been different, how they would have been wired different. And even like, what sort of things would their minds have been tapped into? Minus all the technology we have today.

• 43:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:41Danny Jones?

  And uh, you know, even considering things like their diet pollution that's in the air and the water like. What sort of other senses could they have tapped into?

• 43:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:53Danny Jones?

  You know?

• 43:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. So you've had experts on this show that are not probably not fluent, but who are well versed in ancient Greek?

• 44:01Danny Jones?

  Yes. Yeah.

• 44:02Speaker 03

  I didn't know that was something that you could like learn in full.

• 44:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah, there's a it's a dying, it's a dying specialty in scholarship. Like it's a dying, like people, there's not many people that are getting degrees in these ancient languages anymore.

• 44:17Speaker 03

  Well, it makes sense, right? There's got to be an expert that can decipher.

• 44:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 44:20Speaker 03

  Old texts and stuff.

• 44:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah, they're called classicists, right? Or like there's a there's linguists, there's classicists, and there's like philologists. And it's all the study of these ancient languages, primarily Greek. Like there's Latin, there's Hebrew, there's Sumerian. But the Greek was like the behemoth of antiquity. Like it took up the like the Library of Alexandria was 99% Greek. There was very little Hebrew, very little anything else back then.

• 44:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:48Danny Jones?

  So, yeah, the hardest thing, the crazy, the hard part about it is like, oh, there's so few people that can actually translate it and read it. You know, but there's so many books that like are just English versions of it. And you don't know how we don't, we don't know how accurate it is, you know?

• 45:02Speaker 03

  That's so interesting. Yeah.

• 45:03Danny Jones?

  But yeah, no, it's wild. What is this, Steve? The number of words in Beowulf?

• 45:07Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. Beowulf was intended to be recited orally as a poem from memory.

• 45:14Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, right.

• 45:15Speaker 05

  And it was like, if you write it down, it's 32,000 words.

• 45:18Speaker 03

  That would be a fun memory project.

• 45:20Danny Jones?

  That's crazy to remember Beowulf to transmit it orally.

• 45:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah, there's, there's, I mean, there's ancient texts that were transmitted transmitted orally for, for hundreds of years. Thousands of years, the allegedly, the story of Atlantis was an oral transmission for a thousand years.

• 45:39Speaker 03

  I didn't know that.

• 45:39Danny Jones?

  Which is like, how accurate, how accurate is it?

• 45:41Speaker 03

  Game of telephone.

• 45:42Danny Jones?

  Right? Talking about a game of telephone. You want to say the Bible is like crazy with redacting books and adding books over just 2,000 years. Like imagine some of the other stories that are out there that have been orally transmitted forever. Yeah. You know, at least some of them are written down and we have hard copies of them.

• 45:58Speaker 03

  Right, right, right.

• 45:59Danny Jones?

  But, but yeah, man.

• 46:03Danny Jones?

  Uh, there's, there's people out there who say that memory might not, might not even be stored in the brain. Have you ever heard this?

• 46:12Speaker 03

  Goodness. This is, this is, this is what I was hoping to talk about on your show, man.

• 46:18Speaker 03

  I want to hear where you, where you've heard this from, but I, I'll tell you my experience. So,

• 46:22Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 46:23Speaker 03

  You know, I learned about this stuff in 2009 and just started improving my memory and, and, you know, I had an experience.

• 46:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 46:32Speaker 03

  With my first example, I listened to a, a, an audio book and it walked me through an example, just like you did in, in Joshua Foer's book. I was like, wow, this is cool. It works. Um, but over the years, as I've tried to be faster and, you know, I've, I've trained the skill down to something that's so automatic for certain things, not every memory task, but like the cards, for example, like I would drill that every single day. And sometimes, you know, I'm trying to get down to under 30 seconds to look at a deck of cards in my prime. Uh, I'm not there anymore, but, um, and I'll, I will never forget this. I, my, the one time I've kept flirting with 30, below 30 seconds. I could get 30 seconds point eight four, 31 seconds, 30 point one, two, but never break the 30 second barrier.

• 47:15Speaker 03

  And one time I did, this was Christmas 2012 and I got 29.74, I believe is my second, my, my time. And I was like, oh man, I broke it. I did it. And it was such a weird experience because I remember memorizing the deck. Going like the experience of actually going through the deck, memorizing. I was like, there was a part of my brain that was like, I'm not actively doing anything right now. Like I don't feel like I'm memorizing anything. I'm just, it was like a flow state, right?

• 47:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 47:41Speaker 03

  For memory. And then when it was done, I just knew it all. And I was like, the first time that I ever felt that I wasn't a part of the memory process, that it was like coming from somewhere else.

• 47:53Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 47:53Speaker 03

  And I was weird. It doesn't happen all the time, but in these flow states.

• 47:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 47:56Speaker 03

  Especially with memory, like with flow state, you know, they're shooting basketballs, everything goes in like it's, it's just kind of like mindless in, in the state, right? Of, of doing this, but with memory.

• 48:05Danny Jones?

  Out of body experience.

• 48:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, but with, yeah. And with, but with memory, like it is all about your mind, but being away from your mind as your mind is doing something is a really trippy experience. And so I, in the last five years, um, we talked about this briefly, but I've been more in touch with my spiritual side and, and remote viewing and kind of having these psy experiences and psychedelics and stuff. I I'm pretty convinced that I don't think all memory is coming from inside of here. That I think it's just a receiver, that there's some substrate out there that has all information about everything, including my personal memories and things that I've memorized and will memorize. And I'm just, we are all able to tap in and out of that.

• 48:50Speaker 03

  To get information, to write information, you know? That's my feeling.

• 48:54Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 48:55Speaker 03

  And with the remote viewing, that's why I wanted to talk to you about it, because it's, when I visualize things in my memory space, it's so similar to how I get a download when I'm remote viewing, like the visual space is almost the same. So I almost feel like remote viewing is like kind of memory, but for things that are non-local or for the future, you know?

• 49:16Danny Jones?

  You've actually done remote viewing?

• 49:17Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:19Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 49:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. We we step into that in a moment, but I was, I was curious to hear why you brought that other question up.

• 49:25Danny Jones?

  Well,

• 49:28Danny Jones?

  obviously, in the, in the book, in the Joshua Foer book, they explain that they've, they've, they've been doing experiments on rats and I think monkeys, where they try to take out pieces of the brain to figure out where memory is stored, right? We've been trying to figure out which part of the brain stores memory. And there, there's all these experiments where we take out different parts of the brain, but memory never seems to go away, at least long-term memory. There's some parts of the brain, I think the hippocampus, you can take out where short-term memory seems to reset every day. But for the most part, it seems like

• 50:06Danny Jones?

  from all the experiments that have been done, memory is sporadic throughout the brain. Like, it's like a hologram projected on the entire brain. So as long as, as long as like, there's enough brain there, so you can be a functioning, like function and be alive and not paralyzed, that you can still remember stuff. Or at least animals can still remember stuff, based on the experiments.

• 50:25Speaker 03

  Right.

• 50:26Danny Jones?

  And, um,

• 50:28Danny Jones?

  I think I was listening to Rupert Sheldrake talk about this. Where it's basically similar to what you said, where he believes that the human brain is not like a hard drive on a computer. It's more like a television set. Where if you're watching the television, the show you're watching isn't stored on the screen on the television itself. It's being streamed from somewhere.

• 50:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, pulled in from the antennas or.

• 50:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 50:55Speaker 03

  Wi-Fi or whatever. Yeah.

• 50:55Danny Jones?

  Right. Which is a compelling idea. For sure. But then like, the question is, how do you explain?

• 51:05Danny Jones?

  How do you explain somebody who has played piano their whole entire life and, and can play Beethoven or play every Beethoven song or Bach or whatever it is, like flawlessly, effortlessly? Because they've spent hours and days and years doing this stuff, right? They've spent the time doing that and I can't do that.

• 51:26Speaker 03

  Right.

• 51:26Danny Jones?

  So how do you explain that? If it is just a stream?

• 51:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:30Danny Jones?

  Of, of. That you're getting this stream into your brain from some higher level of memory or consciousness or whatever it is. How come only that person who spent all that time practicing it can do it?

• 51:43Speaker 03

  Right. No, like, why can't you say, oh, I'm gonna tap into that.

• 51:47Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 51:47Speaker 03

  And suddenly play Beethoven or Mozart.

• 51:49Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 51:49Speaker 03

  I, I don't know. Uh, maybe it's not so much about.

• 51:54Speaker 03

  Maybe it's more that that trained person has found the right channel. Through the practice. Maybe that's what practice is, is like honing that connection, right? To the information that's out there. And you don't quite know like how to get that channel, but maybe through the practice you get there. I don't know.

• 52:10Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 52:10Speaker 03

  I don't know how to explain or answer that question. I don't have the answer. Just speculation, but.

• 52:17Speaker 03

  There's, there's definitely something. That we don't know or can't explain about how the memory performs and the brain performs.

• 52:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 52:25Speaker 03

  You know, I, yeah, it's a mystery.

• 52:27Danny Jones?

  The morphic resonance thing is interesting too, that Sheldrake talks about. Like, and I also believe this might be in the, in the book, in the forebook, but. Like, I think it was whenever the first person broke the record for the, the four minute mile or did like the four minute mile.

• 52:43Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 52:43Danny Jones?

  It was the first time in history anyone had ever done that. And then like it wasn't more than a couple of months later that people started breaking it all over the world.

• 52:51Speaker 03

  Right, yeah.

• 52:52Danny Jones?

  And it's like the same like when a problem is solved in one part of the world, somebody very soon after solves that problem in a different, completely different part of the world, completely disconnected from that person.

• 53:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:05Danny Jones?

  And um, he calls that theory morphic resonance that like there's this resonance that's connected. Consciousness is somehow connected to these people that they figure something out. And this is also connected to like the simulation theory. So like if we are in a video game, something gets rendered in one part of the video game. It's automatically easier to render here. So it's conserving processing power.

• 53:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, I love that. Yeah. We find that same uh uh phenomenon in memory sports too where with the cards, you know, I couldn't break 30 seconds, like 30 seconds was a barrier for it was like the one minute mile for a long time.

• 53:39Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 53:40Speaker 03

  Some of the Germans uh broke that pretty uh convincingly. And then just like the dominoes felt like everybody was breaking 30 seconds. And now, well, I don't know now. Maybe like five, six years ago, it was 20 seconds.

• 53:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 53:53Speaker 03

  Since broken that.

• 53:54Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 53:55Speaker 03

  And now it's like the 15 to 10 second mark is like the new one minute mile.

• 54:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 54:00Speaker 03

  Four minute mile, sorry.

• 54:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's bizarre, dude. It really is. When you start trying to reconcile things like the simulation and this morphic resonance stuff and the brain being an antenna to the idea of of memory and like how is it stored? Because we know, I mean, just based on those experiments like they, I mean, I don't think

• 54:23Danny Jones?

  Steve, maybe you can find this, but I don't think there's been any sort of like conclusive science that points to exactly where short term or long term memory is stored in the brain. Do you know of anything?

• 54:35Speaker 03

  I don't know. I, I, yes and no. I mean, I think there's certain things that you can pinpoint are being generated here or accessed here. But then I think there's other things where it's like not so clear why or where this is being stored per se.

• 54:49Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 54:50Speaker 03

  You know, you look at scans of memory athletes using memory techniques.

• 54:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 54:55Speaker 03

  In like an fMRI machine.

• 54:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 54:56Speaker 03

  Their whole brain is lighting up, you know, it's not just those components that we attribute to memory, um, which is interesting, you know?

• 55:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's really crazy too how there's uh people that have like severe autism or had there was one guy in the book that had like this crazy seizure. When he was like four years old and it somehow broke his brain into being like a genius where he could like. Recall crazy stuff. He could do incredible math experiments in his mind. He was taking equations. He was like somehow like. Visualizing pie in his mind and he could see it all. And like he could recite like the first whatever six thousand uh digits of pie in his mind. Because of.

• 55:41Speaker 03

  Was this in the book?

• 55:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 55:42Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 55:43Danny Jones?

  Towards the end. Yeah.

• 55:44Speaker 03

  Was it um?

• 55:46Danny Jones?

  There was a documentary made about this guy.

• 55:47Speaker 03

  Yes, I know a lot about.

• 55:48Danny Jones?

  Daniel something.

• 55:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, Daniel Tamet.

• 55:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's it.

• 55:51Speaker 05

  Took me a minute to find a a good visual representation, but this I think does good justice.

• 55:56Danny Jones?

  Right, but like. What like when was the study done and like did they find out exactly where memory is stored like? I'd be curious if there's like a conclusive uh summary on this stuff that like scientists agree on.

• 56:11Speaker 03

  Interesting story. Well, they talk about it in the book with Daniel Tamet. Um, how? He was actually a memory athlete. Did you get to that part?

• 56:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 56:21Speaker 03

  There's a little bit of scandal there that um not to say that he wasn't on the spectrum and had some. Abilities with his memory, but he was in part, maybe more than we think, using memory techniques for.

• 56:35Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 56:35Speaker 03

  Stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 56:37Danny Jones?

  Okay, so the AI says, no, there is no single definitive conclusion on where memory is stored in the brain. Scientific understanding has moved away from the idea of memory being located in this in one specific spot. Instead, memory is a dynamic process involving multiple brain regions and the physical alterca- alterations. Of countless connections between neurons.

• 56:58Danny Jones?

  Wow, memory is not fixed.

• 57:03Danny Jones?

  I mean, it makes sense, man.

• 57:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:07Speaker 05

  So so then wouldn't that make this this picture bullshit?

• 57:10Danny Jones?

  Yes, that would make that picture bullshit, Steve.

• 57:12Speaker 03

  I mean, I think it's saying that some of these parts of the brain are. Involved, hi- highly involved in these processes, but that's not the the the end of the picture, you know?

• 57:22Danny Jones?

  Well, there was one guy who was like the most studied. Man in brain science or something who had, he had a seizure. It was a different guy who had a seizure when he was young and he had a um.

• 57:37Danny Jones?

  What is it called when they take out a part of your brain because you have seizures?

• 57:41Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, well, they, yeah, I don't know the name.

• 57:42Danny Jones?

  It was a procedure where, where they take out part of your brain, uh, because you're having seizures and that basically broke his short-term memory.

• 57:51Speaker 03

  And he can remember longer than like a few seconds, right?

• 57:54Danny Jones?

  Uh, yeah, short-term memory, but he had like all of his memory before that point. He could remember everything. He would wake, wake, wake up every day. It was like groundhog. Every day was the same day over and over again.

• 58:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:05Danny Jones?

  You know?

• 58:06Speaker 03

  Well, you have people who are well advanced with Alzheimer's and you know, there's certain things that will activate their, their memory, like music, for example.

• 58:15Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 58:15Speaker 03

  Yeah. And they suddenly can be lucid in their memories for a few minutes while they experience this nostalgic music, you know?

• 58:24Danny Jones?

  Temporal lobotomy.

• 58:26Speaker 03

  Oh, lobotomy, yeah.

• 58:27Danny Jones?

  Lobect, lobect, Tommy, lobectomy?

• 58:30Speaker 03

  Lobectomy.

• 58:32Danny Jones?

  In fifty-three, he received a bilateral medial temporal lobotomy to surgically reset a part of his brain. That's crazy. Uh, oh, cause it was, he had epilepsy. That's why they did it.

• 58:47Danny Jones?

  Good God, dude. Could you, could you imagine getting brain surgery in the fucking fifties?

• 58:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:52Danny Jones?

  Like how primitive that house was that?

• 58:55Speaker 03

  He wasn't able to store or form new memories.

• 58:59Danny Jones?

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• 59:41Danny Jones?

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• 1:00:15Speaker 03

  This reminds me, there's been a few times where I've gone under for surgeries and they supposedly there's this drug and they've given it to me before they give me the stuff that knocks me out called verset, which has a similar effect where it when, once you're under that, you can't form new memories. So I'll always tell my surgeon, whatever, like, give me when you after you give that to me, like, tell me like 10 words, like as I'm going down, you know, because I'm gonna

• 1:00:41Danny Jones?

  try to break it.

• 1:00:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I can always remember them and they're like, how the fuck did you do that? Like, I was like, wow, I was just using memory technique.

• 1:00:48Danny Jones?

  But did you make a palace? Is that how you did it?

• 1:00:50Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:51Danny Jones?

  Oh, my God, that's amazing, dude.

• 1:00:53Speaker 03

  So I'm like counting down 10, nine, eight, but I'm in my mind, like, just quickly plopping those words in a memory palace, you know?

• 1:00:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:00Speaker 03

  And they were there and they're just like, I don't know how you did that because you're not supposed to remember that.

• 1:01:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah, anesthesia is a weird thing.

• 1:01:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:10Danny Jones?

  Anesthesia is so, so strange because like, you don't have dreams when you're on anesthesia, right? I think it's like you're completely shut down.

• 1:01:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:19Danny Jones?

  And then you wake up and like you have virtually zero memory of any of that because your brain shut off.

• 1:01:25Speaker 03

  But do we actually know that you're not experiencing it or you just don't remember?

• 1:01:29Danny Jones?

  That's a good question. That's a good question.

• 1:01:32Speaker 03

  That's terrifying. That's terrifying thought, but.

• 1:01:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah, like, what if, what if, what if you were fucking fully conscious?

• 1:01:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:39Danny Jones?

  During the surgery?

• 1:01:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:41Danny Jones?

  And they somehow had a drug that wiped your memory?

• 1:01:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:43Danny Jones?

  You would never know.

• 1:01:44Speaker 03

  Like a severance situation, except you can't.

• 1:01:46Danny Jones?

  Just like severance.

• 1:01:48Speaker 03

  But that person is just experiencing all that pain.

• 1:01:51Danny Jones?

  Is it possible to have dreams during anesthesia? What does it say? Yes. Anesthesia alters brain activity, but does not completely suppress consciousness. The brain may generate dream like experiences, some of those experience during REM sleep.

• 1:02:07Speaker 03

  Oof, okay. Yeah, dude, could you imagine? Yeah, wild.

• 1:02:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, let me, I'll tell you about the remote viewing thing. Cause the reason I got into remote viewing, this was 2021. There was a random post on

• 1:02:25Speaker 03

  one of the World Memory Championship Facebook pages and it said something cryptic like, if you're interested in making a little bit of cash on the side using your memory, send us a message. I was like, okay, I'll, I'll check it out.

• 1:02:40Speaker 03

  And yeah, they were, they didn't say anything until I was on the phone with somebody. And they were like, have you ever heard of remote viewing? And I was like, I honestly had never, I, I didn't, I was like, is that some kind of streaming service? Or viewing something with, I don't know, away from your TV. I was so dumb. It's like, no, have you heard of Project Stargate? And I was like, ah, yeah, maybe some psychic program. And then I- Where did you see the ad for this? Well, it was posted, a post on one of our memory Facebook pages. Okay, gotcha. Yeah. So they were looking for memory athletes. Got it. And that's what it turned out being is, is it was a team, a, a remote viewing team they were putting together with memory athletes and non-memory athletes, but they were interested in using memory athletes because of their visually, their trained visual abilities.

• 1:03:26Speaker 03

  There was a theory that they'd be better perhaps at remote viewing because of that trained ability. Okay. And they wanted to experiment with Min and a couple of other people. And they were going to pay us to train for a month with a remote viewing coach. And to be psychics or whatever. And it was for a trading firm. So they were eventually gonna- A trading firm? Yeah. So they were going to have us do associative remote viewing on tasks every day that had to do with the fluctuation of the market. Oh my- Yeah. Um, and so we were potentially gonna get a portion of the winnings, the earnings and stuff like that. But, um, the projects fell through at some point, but I did get my month

• 1:04:07Speaker 03

  training. Uh, I did get paid, so it wasn't like a scam. They actually paid me, but I was so skeptical. Like, I didn't, I, in my worldview, that at that time, didn't, none of that had, there was no room for that. Um, I grew up studying physics, um, very classically, that was what I was gonna, I was gonna be a physicist. Um, and so this was not explained in that world, you know, remote viewing. So I was just kinda like rolling my eyes, but I was like, you know what? It's maybe a cool story to tell. Uh, I'll see what these people have to say as they coach me how to psychically see things that are not remote, uh, not, not local. And, uh, yeah, within maybe the first week, I had some experiences that like I couldn't explain, you know, with

• 1:04:53Speaker 03

  getting the information right out of nowhere, seemingly. Um, and so slowly it kinda changed my mind about what is possible with the mind, you know?

• 1:05:05Danny Jones?

  So were some of the people that were a part recruiting you guys, were they like former Project Stargate people?

• 1:05:10Speaker 03

  No, so the, uh, no, the, the guy who trained me, um, was trained by a guy named Ed Dames, Major Ed Dames, who was from one of the original, um, CIA programs, I believe. Yeah. Not the original original, but one of those. He's, he himself is a controversial character, but, um, either way, the, the technique is roughly the same. Everybody has a little bit of a different take on how to do it, but it's ultimately the same. You're generating information from seemingly out of nowhere, uh, or tapping into something with your intuition, you know, in this visual space. And, um, yeah, I'll never forget the first time I had like a hit.

• 1:05:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Where, how did that go? Like, did they, did they invite you out somewhere? Did you have to go meet up with people? And like, how did that work?

• 1:05:58Speaker 03

  It was all virtual. I actually never met the people higher up at this firm. It was kinda weird and hush, hush, but I would meet with my coach, uh, every day for like a month. And, uh, you know, step by step, he taught me the formal process of how to remote view. And he would have a picture that he had randomly selected. He'd give me a task number. I'd have to, from that task number, try to intuit. What the picture was like through descriptive words, sketches.

• 1:06:29Speaker 03

  And yeah, some were not even close, but then some would be so eerily close.

• 1:06:34Danny Jones?

  Like, what kind of stuff would they tell you to look for?

• 1:06:36Speaker 03

  Well, at first for training, it was just random pictures, right? So it could be a landscape of the Highlands in Scotland, it could be a picture of a dog, you know, it could have been. You know, mountain in the Swiss Alps, anything.

• 1:06:50Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:06:51Speaker 03

  I don't, I didn't know, I had no idea what he was choosing, it was totally random. And he actually had software that would randomize some

• 1:06:58Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:06:58Speaker 03

  image selection. So it wasn't like he was even preparing them.

• 1:07:01Danny Jones?

  So there's no way he would be able to tell if you were actually remote viewing successfully or not?

• 1:07:05Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, we would go over my results after.

• 1:07:08Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:07:09Speaker 03

  But I'm saying he, there was no, because I was trying to go through all the explanations, like, how was I able to get some of these so correct? Like, is he subliminally, subliminally giving me the information like, and it's all a trick? Or am I actually coming up with this information somehow?

• 1:07:24Speaker 03

  But the, the main one that like really changed my mind was I drew and described like a whale breaching the ocean. And it was after a couple of weeks, so we had developed, he had taught me the different stages of getting really detailed information from these sessions. And so I had all these components that just like looked exactly like the picture. Of all the things that could have been, it was exactly the whale breaching the exact same way with the same colors and, and, and, and components of the photo, like it was all described there. It was just like mind blowing to me that I generated that.

• 1:08:01Danny Jones?

  So I'm a little confused.

• 1:08:04Speaker 03

  Tell me.

• 1:08:04Danny Jones?

  So, okay, he has the photo and you can't see it.

• 1:08:08Speaker 03

  Correct. And it was by zoom. So I, he's on another.

• 1:08:11Danny Jones?

  So he has a random generator on his side that creates a photo. And then you don't get to see the photo. What does he tell you?

• 1:08:17Speaker 03

  I get a task number, which is just a

• 1:08:20Danny Jones?

  A task number.

• 1:08:21Speaker 03

  It's just a random eight or six to eight digit number.

• 1:08:25Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:08:26Speaker 03

  There's nothing in the number. It's just a random.

• 1:08:28Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:08:29Speaker 03

  And I, I used to ask questions about that. I was like, why do you need the number? What's the number about? Can't you just let me do it?

• 1:08:34Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:08:34Speaker 03

  And they're like, well, no, the process is, you know, you get this thing that you can kind of.

• 1:08:40Speaker 03

  I don't know how this all works. I don't think anybody does, but I think there's something, if I had to kind of speculate, when the tasker, him, who's deciding what the photo is and giving me the task number that he's assigned to the photo, that intention links the two somehow. Okay. So when I get the number, even though it's not any, no information regarding the photo, maybe that through line to the signal that like connects all information in the universe is what I can tap into through that number. I don't know. So that number on his side is associated with the image? Right. And he's decided that. Okay. And so he'll say like, one, two, three, four, five, six. I write that down and then I go, I do the thing. So he gives you the number, you write the number down? Yep. And then what do you do?

• 1:09:25Speaker 03

  The first step is you come up with a, what's called an ideogram, which is really just as soon as you write the number down, you let your hand just draw a scribble almost, like whatever your hand does. Your hand will do something if you let it, right? And it might be like this, like a little zigzag, it might be a loop, whatever. And then from that, you, you kind of, it sounds so out there, but you just kind of like feel what you feel. I don't know how else to describe it. And you'll get like a general gestalt or like a feeling and you kind of write those down like, okay, fluffy. And then like a general category, okay, landscape. Okay. You start with that. Then you go into descriptors. So the way that he taught me is he would say, you first want to go through all the colors you sense, the tastes, the smells,

• 1:10:10Speaker 03

  the dimensions, the structures, anything that comes to mind, right? And you really want to try to quiet the logical mind. So every, anytime you're trying to like say, oh, this is what it is. It's, it's a bird. It's a, that's what you want to avoid. You're just going through your, trying to describe things through your senses, like what is just coming to you. Oh, I feel like a pink, orange, a sharp salty smell. Whatever pops into your mind. Yeah. Yeah. Without, and it's hard to do without your mind starting to be like, oh, it's pink and orangey. Well, maybe it's like a parasol on the beach. Okay. It's a parasol. No, you can never name things. It's always about just kind of describing.

• 1:10:55Speaker 03

  And then after you've done all the descriptions and sketches even, then you can start to maybe put it together and be like, okay, this all kind of comes together and is describing some kind of outdoor scene with some kind of structure that is, you know, tall, jutting into the sky and there's some kind of life form around, you know, you describe it in those ways. Which I always thought at the beginning was kind of like a cop out because it's like, yeah, of course you guys are saying you're psychics, but you can't really tell me what you're seeing. You're just describing and maybe through general words, it feels like you're coming up with the right information because you can, you know, it's, you can convince yourself that it's correct, but

• 1:11:39Speaker 03

  there's a lot of scenarios where you end up going down this rabbit hole of really specific descriptors. And it's like, it can't be anything else. It's, it's, it can get to really specific things that are really accurate to what you're describing. And I've, I've talked to a few of the original remote viewers and they can do this on a whole other level where they're writing such detail down that

• 1:12:01Danny Jones?

  Which ones did you talk to?

• 1:12:03Speaker 03

  Uh, McMonigal.

• 1:12:04Danny Jones?

  You talked to him?

• 1:12:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Chris and I went to his house a couple of years ago, Chris Ramsey, and interviewed him. What a, that guy's insane, like impressive insane. Crazy stories too, but there's some

• 1:12:18Danny Jones?

  He'll still do it at that age?

• 1:12:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know if he'll actively do sessions anymore. But he, for a while, would even past his days where he was working for the government, he would be invited to like these Japanese shows and do it live on TV. Uh, or he'd even help find missing children and things like that.

• 1:12:39Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:12:40Speaker 03

  Yeah. And he'd be right.

• 1:12:41Danny Jones?

  I always tell these remote viewers, I'm like, why can't you just go figure out and tell us how the pyramids are built? Like, that's what we all want to know. We want to know who built the goddamn pyramids. Like, go do that. Tell us.

• 1:12:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:12:52Danny Jones?

  You know, you can go to Mars a million years ago and tell me what was going on. Just tell me what was happening in the Giza desert.

• 1:12:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:12:58Danny Jones?

  3,000 years ago.

• 1:12:59Speaker 03

  Yeah. That, that's the frustrating, that, that was, and I guess still is the frustrating thing about it is, you know,

• 1:13:07Speaker 03

  it's, it can provide really interesting results, but at the same time, it's so

• 1:13:16Speaker 03

  Amorphous and like, like slippy, like it's not like this definitive like, oh, tell me what, what, what are you thinking of? Oh, it's uh, bread, you know, like I, it's not that simple. There's all sorts of caveats and like, no, it can't, it's gotta be um, it, it, there's all sorts of requirements for it to work. And at first I saw that was, you know, psychics like talking shit, you know, but um, I really think that it's just such a,

• 1:13:48Speaker 03

  like there is an effect there, like some psychic effect, but I don't think it's a strong one. And maybe it has to do with what you said, like over thousands of years, our intuitive mind has kind of like atrophied, right? And so what we have hanging on is just like a weak force of it still, you know?

• 1:14:05Danny Jones?

  I wonder if you could train some like uncontacted tribe in the Amazon to do remote viewing? I bet you they'd fucking kick ass at it.

• 1:14:13Speaker 03

  And they have like no knowledge of

• 1:14:14Danny Jones?

  No knowledge of any kind, any kind of technological society or technology or anything.

• 1:14:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:14:19Danny Jones?

  They're just fucking running around naked with a bow and arrow.

• 1:14:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:23Danny Jones?

  They could probably remote do the shit out of some stuff.

• 1:14:25Speaker 03

  Probably. Have you ever tried remote viewing?

• 1:14:27Danny Jones?

  Never.

• 1:14:28Speaker 03

  You've had remote viewers on the show, right?

• 1:14:30Danny Jones?

  I've had, we've had at least one, maybe two, one or two.

• 1:14:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:37Speaker 03

  And they've never

• 1:14:38Danny Jones?

  We had one of the original Stargate dudes.

• 1:14:40Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 1:14:42Danny Jones?

  On the show, he was shot in the head. See, it's weird. So a lot of these things get, are, are start with like trauma.

• 1:14:48Speaker 03

  Huh.

• 1:14:49Danny Jones?

  You know, like this guy was training somewhere in like um,

• 1:14:54Danny Jones?

  one of those countries that border Israel. And he was doing some training exercise and he got shot in the head by like a rogue bullet. And he, but he was wearing a helmet.

• 1:15:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:03Danny Jones?

  And it knocked him off his feet, knocked him unconscious and it didn't penetrate the helmet. It just fucked up his brain. He had a really bad TBI.

• 1:15:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:10Danny Jones?

  So he went back to the US to see a psychologist and, you know, get his head checked out. And they're like, the psychologist was like, hey, we want to, uh, we want to bring you into this other program we got going on called Stargate. He's like, what? He didn't know anything about any of this crazy. He's like, this sounds like, you know, this sounds like the Twilight Zone. What the hell are we doing?

• 1:15:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:30Danny Jones?

  And they trained, they trained him on all this remote viewing stuff. And he's like, apparently, you know, he remote viewed all kinds of stuff. He said that he also remote viewed Mars and the moon.

• 1:15:41Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:15:42Danny Jones?

  Um, just like McMonigal said, but he said he never saw any aliens.

• 1:15:46Speaker 03

  Okay. Interesting. Very interesting. Yeah.

• 1:15:51Speaker 03

  There's this theory too, with, with remote viewing that it, well, when you, the important part of the training is when you do your session. Afterwards, you know, my coach, he would show me what I tried to remote view. And I would judge like, oh, how close was I? Yeah, I got the colors right. Uh, maybe I give it a four out of 10, you know, of accuracy. Sometimes I'd be like, oh shit, it's like a seven or eight out of 10. Wow. But the feedback is super important. Remote viewers will constantly tell you that. And some of the thought is that maybe you're just actually

• 1:16:27Speaker 03

  seeing into the future when you see the feedback.

• 1:16:30Danny Jones?

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:16:31Speaker 03

  Right. So it's that kind of forms the loop of your future self telling you what you saw at that point, you know?

• 1:16:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:16:39Speaker 03

  But then I don't know how somebody can remote view a million years ago on Mars.

• 1:16:43Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:16:43Speaker 03

  Um, so I think there's still ways to do that, but I wonder if it's weaker that way, because you never really get a definite answer like that. Yes, that was the right answer.

• 1:16:50Danny Jones?

  You can never verify it, right?

• 1:16:51Speaker 03

  Right. And so maybe that's part of why, you know, they can't just go back and definitively say, like, that guy can say there was nothing on the moon. But maybe somebody else can say like, oh, I saw something on the moon. Like, who's right? Like, you'll never know.

• 1:17:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:05Speaker 03

  Could both be talking shit, but I don't know.

• 1:17:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it sounds so cra- it all sounds so crazy and just so outlandish. But like, dude, like

• 1:17:15Danny Jones?

  the wild part is when you learn that all of these people, like the whole history of all the top physicists and scientists and engineers and like the space program were all into this stuff. Like the occult and remote viewing and like ESP and all this stuff, like Jack Parsons and all these people, you know?

• 1:17:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:37Danny Jones?

  Like, were they on to something?

• 1:17:41Speaker 03

  I don't know. Joe will say that this is, you know, an old human skill that we just don't need anymore, or we don't use anymore because we don't have to survive in that way.

• 1:17:51Danny Jones?

  Why does he think that he has this ability?

• 1:17:55Speaker 03

  What is his story? I think he just always kind of had a knack for intuition. He never had like an incident where he like hit his head or anything.

• 1:18:05Speaker 03

  Or maybe he did. I don't, I don't know. Um, I don't think there was any notable thing in his life where it like suddenly became his thing, but.

• 1:18:13Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:18:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was just in the right place at the right time and they decided to train him, I think.

• 1:18:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:20Danny Jones?

  The, the telepathy stuff, like the telepathy tapes is, is fucking insane, dude.

• 1:18:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:25Danny Jones?

  It is so crazy that it's even real.

• 1:18:28Speaker 03

  Yeah. You just had, uh, Dahlia on your show, right?

• 1:18:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:32Speaker 03

  She, um, was at the Psy Games thing, uh, about a month and a half ago. Um, and Chris and I were there, um, kind of to help out. We spoke at it.

• 1:18:41Danny Jones?

  Is that episode live yet?

• 1:18:43Speaker 03

  It's not.

• 1:18:44Danny Jones?

  Okay, okay.

• 1:18:47Speaker 03

  But Dahlia told me.

• 1:18:47Danny Jones?

  She's coming out. It's coming out any day now.

• 1:18:49Speaker 03

  Okay, cool. No, she, um, it's funny because after the, the Psy Games where I saw Dahlia do her thing and it blew my mind, um, I reached out to her because I was like, I need you to teach me this. Like, can I learn this? And she believes that anybody can learn it. Maybe it's easier in children, but then you can learn it. And so I've done a couple of sessions with her. Um, but as I started the sessions, she was telling me that she was going out for podcasts and I was like, oh, cool. And she said, and it was the same week that you guys reached out to me.

• 1:19:19Danny Jones?

  No way. Oh, that's crazy.

• 1:19:21Speaker 03

  Weird timing, synchronicity. Um, but yeah, she's, she's insane. I mean, did you have an amazing experience with her?

• 1:19:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. She put on like a thousand blindfolds and she was able to see things. She was like, she was wearing full blindfolds all over her face to where there was no possible way she would get any shred of light through there. And I was holding up books, like ran, I, I brought a pile of books and I was holding them up. She was reading the covers.

• 1:19:44Speaker 03

  Stuff she wouldn't have known.

• 1:19:45Danny Jones?

  Steve was able to hold up shapes behind her head while she was wearing the blindfold facing the other way. And she was able to tell what the shapes were.

• 1:19:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Well, this is wild. When we did the session via Zoom, she's like, okay, put on your blindfold. I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. I'm gonna do this session blindfolded as best I can. And then she's like, I'm gonna put on my blindfold. And I was like, well, wait, well, don't you need to like, see me? And she said, no, I can see you. And like, you know, obviously a big part of it is me holding up papers and trying to figure out what color they are. And she has to verify them. But if she has a blindfold, but it doesn't matter. I recorded the whole thing. She got every single one right that I was trying to see, you know, to like confirm whether my guesses were right. And there was even some that I had under the table that she still got right. So I don't know how you like, even if her blindfold is cheating or she can peek, she can't see under my table through a Zoom call.

• 1:20:36Speaker 03

  Right. She was able to even do it with cards, playing cards. That's when I was like, well, can you see a card face down on a table? Because if you can, then that would be great in casinos, you know? And she's like, oh, I just need to, I think I could if I trained it. I was like, man, that's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. You should train that. Yeah. That's an instant advantage.

• 1:20:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah. If there was any rules to that kind of stuff, I imagine that would be like the number one rule. Like, we're not gonna let you motherfuckers manipulate the stock market and like, pillage the earth based on your psychic abilities.

• 1:21:11Speaker 03

  Right, right, right. Yeah.

• 1:21:13Danny Jones?

  You know, if there is some sort of like, some sort of muse or like,

• 1:21:23Danny Jones?

  group of pagan gods that rule over us, I would imagine that they would like set some sort of rules around that.

• 1:21:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, for sure. Did, um, did she talk about the side games?

• 1:21:34Danny Jones?

  A little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. She mainly talked about her daughter. She was talking about her daughter.

• 1:21:38Speaker 03

  Daughter was amazing.

• 1:21:39Danny Jones?

  The crazy stuff that her daughter and her daughter's friends can do, like literally read minds in like, as easy as I can read a piece of paper, they can read minds. Like, it's insane.

• 1:21:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:52Danny Jones?

  And it's, uh,

• 1:21:55Danny Jones?

  It's bizarre that not more people are talking about this.

• 1:22:00Speaker 03

  Right?

• 1:22:00Danny Jones?

  You know?

• 1:22:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:02Danny Jones?

  It's completely 100% verified. They like, they tested this stuff like with scientists and like, did it with multiple kids. And like, they do this thing where they also meet up together and it's like imaginary world and hang out.

• 1:22:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, I heard that, that the hill or whatever, right?

• 1:22:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:18Speaker 03

  That's insane.

• 1:22:19Danny Jones?

  What is that, dude?

• 1:22:20Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:22:21Danny Jones?

  Like, can you imagine your kid can read your mind, everything you're thinking at all times?

• 1:22:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. I think, what did Dalia tell me? She said sometimes she has to, like, she'll sing songs in her head. Like, if she doesn't want her daughter to, like, think of what she's thinking. She has to, like,

• 1:22:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:37Speaker 03

  make noise in her mind. So, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:39Danny Jones?

  Oh, that's crazy.

• 1:22:41Speaker 03

  To like mask it or something. That's funny. Um, but yeah, the moment she went on stage, uh, Dalia herself, her, her daughter's presentation was incredible too. But we were trying, they were trying to, the competitors were doing this Mindsight stuff where they had to put these colored rings on the colored pegs.

• 1:22:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:22:58Speaker 03

  And nobody was really doing that well, honestly. Like, the whole competition.

• 1:23:01Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:23:01Speaker 03

  I wasn't like blown away, like, wow, people are psychic. Here they are.

• 1:23:06Danny Jones?

  Were there kids there?

• 1:23:07Speaker 03

  There weren't any kids. There were kids, but not performing on stage. No.

• 1:23:11Danny Jones?

  Okay, okay, okay.

• 1:23:13Speaker 03

  But then she came on and it was like, you know, Michael Jordan, suddenly, and all the other people were just like, kids. Compared to her. And she just like, could put them on, like, she didn't even make a mistake. It looked crazy, but the whole crowd went nuts. And it was like the special moment at the competition because I think people were waiting for like some true psychic feeling event, and that was it. She like commanded that moment. It was wild.

• 1:23:37Danny Jones?

  Have you talked to Chris Ramsey about that at all? Does he think it's magic, maybe?

• 1:23:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. Hey, Chris. He, um, I don't know if I should speak for him, but he, he's a magician and he's, uh, he's seen it all, you know, like, he can do what she can do. But it's not real.

• 1:23:54Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:23:55Speaker 03

  Yeah. In the same way that he'll tell me this all the time. Nelson, I can do what you can do with your memory, but I don't have to have a good memory. Like, he can fake it, you know, with his memory, uh, with his magic tricks, you know, his magic skills. He can have a pre-memorized deck of cards and shuffle it. You think I'm shuffling it? You think he's shuffling it, but he's done a million fake shuffles, right?

• 1:24:15Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:24:15Speaker 03

  Um, sleight of hands, he can force the card here and there, and it looks like he's memorized crazy stuff, but it's all a trick. Same with the blindfolds. And, and he even showed one of the people who was trying to document Dahlia doing this certain thing, they gave him the same, uh, blindfold, and he could do it. I don't know how he did it, but he showed me books where there's all sorts of blindfolded tricks.

• 1:24:37Danny Jones?

  What does he think? Does he think there's any chance that Dahlia could be faking it?

• 1:24:40Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:24:41Danny Jones?

  He does?

• 1:24:41Speaker 03

  That's what he thinks.

• 1:24:42Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:24:43Speaker 03

  Yeah. And he saw her at Contact in the Desert. Um, he even perhaps thinks that, uh, there's a bit of suggestion when he's, she's holding up the, the board to, uh, her daughter to point to. Um, and maybe I, I personally think that it's real. Um, I leave a little room always to be wrong, of course, because I, I don't know for sure, you know? Um, but I do value what Chris knows.

• 1:25:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:15Speaker 03

  Seen every sort of trick under the book and knows.

• 1:25:20Speaker 03

  But.

• 1:25:20Danny Jones?

  Is there a way to test it if she's actually doing a trick or if it's real, does, according to him?

• 1:25:25Speaker 03

  Well, he wanted to do some other tests on her at the Psy Games.

• 1:25:29Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 1:25:30Speaker 03

  Cause she was user, you, she would use her blindfold. Um, and it's a verified blindfold, like, they are dark. Uh, it's these mind vision ones.

• 1:25:37Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, we have a bunch of them, they're in the other room.

• 1:25:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:40Speaker 03

  You've put it on, probably, it's like.

• 1:25:41Danny Jones?

  Can't see.

• 1:25:42Speaker 03

  Can't see shit.

• 1:25:42Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:25:43Speaker 03

  Um, but, uh, he was able to do it with that mask on.

• 1:25:47Danny Jones?

  Did he tell you how?

• 1:25:49Speaker 03

  It's a, it's a, it's a bit of, yes and no. Like, he's a magician, he's a good friend of mine, but he will still never tell me how certain tricks are done. But I would imagine it has to do with shifting the thing on the bridge of your nose, or I've even heard of people putting certain,

• 1:26:05Speaker 03

  like grease on your cheeks to like, create a gap, so you can kind of see. If you look at Dahlia perform, she does move her head a lot.

• 1:26:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:26:14Speaker 03

  I know she's also looking through her windows, right? Which I can imagine, you know, even when I memorize, sometimes I have to, like, I look different places.

• 1:26:22Speaker 06

  Yeah, she was going like this.

• 1:26:23Speaker 03

  Yeah. But, you know, if somebody was trying to peek too, when they probably do something like that, I don't know.

• 1:26:28Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:26:30Speaker 03

  But anyway, so he did, he was able to do a demo, and the people that were testing him were like, "I think he has Mindsight." Chris was like, "I definitely don't." I, I just faked that, but they were so convinced of how he did that. They thought that he had Mindsight and he didn't know it.

• 1:26:46Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't think he has it. Uh, he doesn't think he has it, but, um, he, he would, so he, he's most frustrated because I think he just wants,

• 1:26:57Speaker 03

  from a magician's standpoint, where he knows all the tricks, he wants to be able to test her in ways that would eliminate that idea.

• 1:27:04Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:27:05Speaker 03

  She could be using one of those ways.

• 1:27:07Speaker 06

  Has he reached out to her?

• 1:27:08Speaker 03

  No, um, no, i- i- i- he did at the competition, but

• 1:27:12Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:27:13Speaker 03

  Dahlia's response, um, was mostly that she could do what he was asking, but needed to train it first, which I get. Like, even with me, like, I can memorize really fast, but if you like, put me underwater and do it, it's like, "Well, I've never really done it that way. Could I do it? Yes, but I wouldn't like to perform. I'd prefer to train it first." So I get that. Um, but, you know, in his mind, he's like, "Well, if you can do it through a blindfold, then can you do it through, like, uh, an opaque, like, sheet, you know, like of leather, like, or how?"

• 1:27:44Speaker 06

  Yeah, like, for just a big, like, a thing right in front of you.

• 1:27:46Speaker 03

  Does it have to be right in front of your eyes? Like, could it be?

• 1:27:48Speaker 06

  Interesting.

• 1:27:49Speaker 03

  Right in front of the thing?

• 1:27:49Speaker 06

  Interesting.

• 1:27:50Speaker 03

  And so th- those things weren't able to be tested.

• 1:27:52Speaker 06

  Or what about on the side of a fucking wall?

• 1:27:54Speaker 03

  Or that, right? Like, what's the, the thickness of the thing, or the distance away and the thickness? Like, I would love for that stuff to be tested meticulously, and I don't think it has.

• 1:28:05Speaker 03

  And you'd be surprised, even when you say, you know, scientists have tested the shit out of the telepathy stuff, like,

• 1:28:13Speaker 03

  With the memory thing, I'll use it as an example, there was this memory guy, I won't say his name, but he was a magician, mentalist, and he would claim that he could do all these memory things that were way better than anything I could do or any other top mental athlete could do. And I was so annoyed by it because it's like it devalues what we put in effort to do. And I know he's faking it, right?

• 1:28:36Speaker 03

  And he even got in with researchers at MIT and they were studying his brain. And these researchers would come to me and be like, why can't you do that? Like this guy can do it for real. I know it. I studied the brain. I know it. And I was able to debunk like some of his examples that he was using, like, look, here's him doing this deck of cards in seven seconds. I was like, it's a fucking marked deck. Like you can even see him, or you can see him false shuffle the deck. Like he's prememorized that. And I even pulled up like a bunch of other demos that he did the same thing. It's the same order of the cards.

• 1:29:08Danny Jones?

  No way.

• 1:29:09Speaker 03

  Like it goes, he was on an Ellen show years ago. It is the same order. It's this, and it's a mnemonic stack.

• 1:29:14Danny Jones?

  You can expose this guy. What's his name?

• 1:29:16Speaker 03

  Just do it.

• 1:29:18Speaker 03

  I don't need to do that anymore.

• 1:29:19Danny Jones?

  Come on, he's been on Ellen. People are gonna figure it out anyway.

• 1:29:21Speaker 03

  His name is Jim Carroll.

• 1:29:23Danny Jones?

  Jim Carroll, okay.

• 1:29:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:25Danny Jones?

  Pull him up, Steve.

• 1:29:29Speaker 03

  You know, he's, yeah, he's a...

• 1:29:31Danny Jones?

  Sorry, he's getting what he deserves.

• 1:29:32Speaker 03

  No, I don't know, I don't wanna, I don't know why people feel the need to do stuff like that. But yeah, I wanna try to stay out of it. Although, no, I don't, clearly, right? Cause I'm...

• 1:29:44Danny Jones?

  What about Uri Geller? Have you heard of him?

• 1:29:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, sure.

• 1:29:48Danny Jones?

  I've never seen, I've heard people say, and David Morehouse, one of the remote viewers that was on here, told me, he was friends with Uri Geller. And he told me he's watched him bend spoons. He told me not only that, he watched him walk into a random restaurant, pick up a spoon off somebody's table, pick it up and bend it with his mind.

• 1:30:07Speaker 03

  But that's the thing, he's a magician and a mentalist too. I'm not saying that he doesn't have...

• 1:30:11Danny Jones?

  Exactly, that's why it's even more confusing.

• 1:30:12Speaker 03

  You can swap out the spoons, right? Like, and somebody who thinks they see what, they know what they saw.

• 1:30:18Danny Jones?

  Good old Jim Carroll.

• 1:30:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, the mathematical mind.

• 1:30:20Danny Jones?

  Mathematical mind.

• 1:30:22Speaker 03

  That's, that's...

• 1:30:23Danny Jones?

  One of the greatest long-term memories I've ever seen.

• 1:30:25Speaker 03

  That's the researcher that I'm talking about. Like, it's so crazy.

• 1:30:30Speaker 03

  And I showed this guy, the, the, the, Robert, um, evidence of, of him, what I just told you.

• 1:30:41Danny Jones?

  You showed the MIT guy the evidence?

• 1:30:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I'd never heard from him. He was so upset that I questioned him. And that always bothered me because I,

• 1:30:48Danny Jones?

  Who was Robert?

• 1:30:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:49Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:30:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:51Danny Jones?

  And I, That's crazy, dude.

• 1:30:52Speaker 03

  I truly respect Robert and,

• 1:30:53Danny Jones?

  How can you be a scientist? Like, that's so terrible. That's so terrible.

• 1:30:57Speaker 03

  All I'm trying to say is it's easy to fool people.

• 1:31:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:02Speaker 03

  And you never know what people's, um, ulterior motives are, you know?

• 1:31:07Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:31:07Speaker 03

  You think like, someone like Dolly and her daughter, like, I don't think they're really getting any, like, monetary gain. Well, maybe, I don't know. Maybe they're getting a lot of attention.

• 1:31:16Danny Jones?

  A lot of attention?

• 1:31:17Speaker 03

  But maybe that's not even wanted. Maybe her daughter would prefer to be a little more, um, out of the limelight. I don't know. It seems like she's maybe not super comfortable being on that pressure. I don't know. Right? Like, um, but who knows? Maybe, maybe.

• 1:31:32Danny Jones?

  People are very easily tricked. People are very gullible.

• 1:31:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. Me as well. Um, I'll tell you, I'll tell you another example of, of me being fooled.

• 1:31:44Speaker 07

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• 1:32:39Speaker 03

  There was this guy, B J Shahi. Wow. My channel on YouTube exploded because of this guy in a good way, um, years ago, because he claimed, he's a guy from Nepal who could, he claimed he could, um, Memorize books just by doing this and like saying gibberish out loud. He would almost seem like he was in speaking in tongues. He'd be like ripping through pages, these massive books in English. He doesn't speak English. He's Nepalese. And then he would go off into a corner. His associate would tell him a page number random and he would go over in the corner. No cameras allowed, but he would write out the, the page verbatim and it would match. Right? And so I've been to Nepal a bunch of times because I like to climb there. And one time I went there in 2021 and he reached out to me.

• 1:33:23Speaker 03

  He's like, would you like to interview me for your YouTube channel? And I was, because I had done a couple of like debunkings, like, I don't think this is real, but I hadn't really gone into it other than saying like, oh, look at this memory demonstration. It's, looks kind of phony. Yeah. This is it. Look, look, yeah. Whoa.

• 1:33:40Speaker 03

  And so. So he, he's like, he's taking a mental picture of each page? Danny, he's not doing anything, but that's, I think what he's, uh, uh, trying to, to, to pretend. Right. So that, so the kid on the right, you're talking about? Kid on the right. And he reached out to you when you went there? Yep. And said, you want to interview me? Yep, and I did. Um, I went to his office. That was the first red flag. I shouldn't have gone there. He should have come to me. Yeah. And, um, I gave him a book that had just been published on mountaineering. He would have never, in English, he would have never had it. And he, I told him just to memorize a page, like not even the whole book. Like that's hard. Like there's hundreds of words on a page, right? In a language you don't speak.

• 1:34:24Speaker 03

  And so he did it, wrote it out perfectly. Wow. And I walked away from that thing thinking like, man, I was wrong. Like this is real. There's something there. I posted the interview and of course, like the comments, people were like, oh, his assistant passed, was recording and passed him the paper. And it's like, they didn't see that, but they're just like guessing what happened. But where you were there while he did it though? Yeah, but it was a whole setup, you know, like to, to trick the memory guy. Because if the memory guy could vouch for this guy and, and a full interview, like he said, right? Like there's no question. And I went into it thinking like, I am a memory guy. I've seen all the tricks. I can figure it out if this is fake or not. And I left there being like perplexed, right?

• 1:35:09Speaker 03

  But it turns out in the video, there were things that, uh, my audience helped catch. And I further catched that was definitively showing that it was fake.

• 1:35:20Speaker 03

  That what he did was like a whole. How? I think the biggest, there were few, you can, I'll send you the link, but I think the main thing was. Is it on your channel? Mm hmm. See if you can find it, Steve. Yeah, just look up BJ. Yeah, these are some of my reactions, but there's an interview. Is this guy like a big shot in Nepal? He was. Mm hmm. Uh, he's since come crashing down. Yeah, there's a bunch of different memory feeds in there. But, um, the main thing was when I gave him a piece of paper. You know, it had, it was like lined school paper, right? With a margin line. And I saw him start to write. I have it on video. You can zoom in and look and he's, um, touching the line.

• 1:36:04Speaker 03

  Like he's like starting at the, the, the margin line, his texts in ink. Okay. And then the page that he gives me later, uh, there's like a half inch gap consistently down. So it's not the same page he gave me. You know? So, and the, the thing is that should have like put off flags in my mind was at one point, just for a split second, he asked me to turn around. Because, and I know that sounds so stupid because like Nelson, why would you? Turn around real quick? Yeah, but in the moment, he was like, I'm having my divine, uh, experience. He was chanting and stuff. He's like, I can't let you see this part. Like it's, it's, I won't get the information. And so I was like, okay. I really tried to keep my camera on him. Yeah, this was the moment. That's the moment where he's like telling me, he had his assistant.

• 1:36:49Speaker 03

  He's like telling me to turn around. Oh my God. And what I think, I think his assistant slid a piece of paper under the door. I was, yeah. So, so, okay. So there was like a camera in there that somebody in the other room saw and they quickly wrote it down and slid it under the door? I think she was recording because he reads it out loud. He read it out loud. Oh, okay. And then she transcribed it because there were some funny translations, like, like as if somebody had heard the word. Yeah. And written it wrong because they don't speak English. And so look at me, I'm like. Kind of trying to. Not fooled, huh? Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's so funny. I haven't watched this in so long.

• 1:37:31Danny Jones?

  And the comments figured it out, huh?

• 1:37:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. So after this interview, there's a like a debunking video, which is pretty

• 1:37:38Danny Jones?

  Wow. Sometimes the comments are spot on, man.

• 1:37:42Speaker 03

  Yeah. Thank goodness for that.

• 1:37:45Speaker 03

  But yeah, it was great for my channel. I got, you know, like so many subscribers from Nepal, a great audience.

• 1:37:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:51Speaker 03

  One of my best performing videos.

• 1:37:53Danny Jones?

  He's a magic magician.

• 1:37:55Speaker 03

  Yeah. And you know what's crazy? After this went live, or the second video, I was on a trip somewhere and I started getting messages from people in Nepal saying, RIP BJ. And I was like, oh yeah, yeah. Like we got him, you know, like his career, but they're like, no, no, he's he killed himself.

• 1:38:11Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:38:12Speaker 03

  And my heart stopped. I was like, oh no. Is this like one of these situations where like I bullied somebody like? Turns out he had posted a photo of him dead. And then 15 minutes later, uh, somebody had taken a picture of him. He was still alive. Um, but he had faked it, right? Like as a

• 1:38:30Danny Jones?

  I don't know.

• 1:38:31Speaker 03

  Yeah. So I was like, oh my God, like, uh, and that's why I don't love the debunking things anymore. But sometimes it's necessary because like this guy was taking people's money. Yeah. Nepal who don't know any better. And they're, he's tapping into like the religious aspect of it. Information is just coming to him and that you can learn it if you buy my book or take my course, you know? That's not cool.

• 1:38:53Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:38:54Speaker 03

  So. Yeah. Uh, it was a whole thing.

• 1:39:00Danny Jones?

  That's pretty funny.

• 1:39:00Speaker 03

  And now I think his, his, he went quiet for a bit, but now I think he's back and he, his whole new shtick is he raises people from the dead.

• 1:39:07Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 1:39:08Speaker 03

  He's on to the next.

• 1:39:09Danny Jones?

  We gotta get him in here. Steve, hit him up.

• 1:39:13Danny Jones?

  He'll bring his assistant and tell us to turn all the cameras off.

• 1:39:16Speaker 03

  Oh my God.

• 1:39:17Danny Jones?

  I'll take a leak real quick. Quick break. We're back. All right. Where were we? We're talking about?

• 1:39:22Speaker 03

  BJ Shahi.

• 1:39:23Danny Jones?

  BJ Shahi.

• 1:39:25Speaker 03

  Here's the.

• 1:39:25Danny Jones?

  Oh, that's his dead photo?

• 1:39:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And the moments after. Yeah.

• 1:39:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah. The problem is there's people like this in everything.

• 1:39:33Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:39:33Danny Jones?

  There's fakers in literally every aspect of life.

• 1:39:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:39:37Danny Jones?

  And every profession.

• 1:39:40Speaker 03

  And you don't know what the, well, you look at that photo, you, you kind of know the motive. Steve was saying a moment ago, look how it's attention craved. He looks right.

• 1:39:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:51Speaker 03

  But um, I would like to go back and just reiterate that I think that um, Dahlia and her daughter are the real thing.

• 1:39:59Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:39:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, but you know, we'll leave a little bit of room for skepticism.

• 1:40:03Danny Jones?

  Well, what does Chris think about the whole telepathy type thing in general? I mean, obviously you're speaking for him, but like, I'd be curious, like, how do you fake it with kids? You know, like, like, how do you have all of these kids doing these things like?

• 1:40:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:40:14Danny Jones?

  And

• 1:40:15Speaker 03

  And confirming kind of the same things. It's not like they've all like sat down.

• 1:40:19Danny Jones?

  And it's all on video on their website, isn't it? On the telepathy tapes website, didn't she videotape like the whole thing on the like, all the experiments they did?

• 1:40:26Speaker 03

  Uh, those don't, to me, those weren't super convincing, but nah, I don't know. Again, I think some stuff could be faked or just like overlooked.

• 1:40:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:36Speaker 03

  Or maybe not even purposefully fake, but um, just there's could be some other things going on. I don't know.

• 1:40:43Danny Jones?

  Um, yeah, there could be.

• 1:40:44Speaker 03

  Chris definitely is on the same kind of page as me spiritually and like remote viewing wise. Cause after I did the whole remote viewing project, that's how kind of how we reconnected again is he um, asked me, we were doing a podcast, just a comedy podcast that he had, I was on his show. And remote viewing came up because I was telling him that crazy story that I just got involved in this weird program. And he was like, yeah, you know about remote viewing? I was like, dude, I'll teach you. And so we did a whole series on his area 52 channel where um, I taught him remote viewing. He did it for a year. And so he had crazy experiences in himself and in for himself. And so he's a believer. Um, we ended up doing the Monroe Institute together and having crazy out of body experiences together. Well, not together, that sounds kind of sexual, but

• 1:41:30Speaker 03

  we experienced had our own experiences separately. Um, so he's definitely on on the page that like, stuff like this can happen and has happened to him. Um, but you know, he has this lens of he knows how or can assume how fakers could fake. Um, and there are fakers in this community because it's so easy to fake. Um, yeah, and that's kind of, I think his feeling about Yuri Geller, you asked, um, you know, I think Yuri probably has some abilities, but just like, I think BJ Shah, he had some knowledge of memory techniques, but he probably saw, oh, you know, if I fake this, like, who's gonna know? Like, and then you get kind of carried away and maybe that's what happened with Yuri Geller. I don't know.

• 1:42:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah, man, I'm tend I tend to believe that it's it has to be real.

• 1:42:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:42:18Danny Jones?

  Just because of, you know. The telepathy tapes convinced me probably more than anything. What is this?

• 1:42:24Speaker 05

  The balloon one?

• 1:42:25Danny Jones?

  Boy parents admit hoax?

• 1:42:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, when you were you brought up the the question of having all these kids in on it. And that brings me back to the days when I was working at the news station. And there was this story that popped up where these parents had created this hoax that they that their their kid was stuck in a UFO balloon or something like that. And

• 1:42:47Danny Jones?

  And the kids played in on it?

• 1:42:49Speaker 05

  They they tried to get the kids to play on it and immediately. Because this is a news interview, live live interview. So this is a live feed into their into their control room. And the and the interviewer asks, so what happened? And the kid just rats out his parents. He just straight up. He doesn't. He doesn't do what his parents tell him to, and he tells him the truth.

• 1:43:08Danny Jones?

  That's hilarious.

• 1:43:09Speaker 05

  So it requires participation.

• 1:43:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Well, the thing is, like, these kids in the public, they're like, they're nonverbal autistics.

• 1:43:16Speaker 05

  I know.

• 1:43:17Danny Jones?

  Right? They're like extremely autistic.

• 1:43:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:43:21Danny Jones?

  And there we know there's a correlation between people that have TBIs. And like, get these weird abilities, you know, like these are like that guy David Morehouse that was in here, the remote viewer guy.

• 1:43:32Speaker 05

  Oh, that's his story?

• 1:43:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that was David Morehouse's story, how he got shot in the head by that.

• 1:43:36Speaker 05

  Oh, you were saying that?

• 1:43:37Danny Jones?

  Rope bullet. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:43:39Speaker 05

  That's crazy.

• 1:43:39Danny Jones?

  And yeah, I don't know. There's just too much evidence. There's too much evidence pointing towards it. But like, again, the weird thing is that no one else talks about. You know, it's like only the people on podcasts talk about it. I've never heard anyone else say anything about the telepathy tapes.

• 1:43:53Speaker 05

  True. But even with all that sigh stuff, you know, it's very poo-pooed and there's this giggle factor to it. But if I what? So I usually if somebody if I'm talking about this with somebody and I say, oh, psychic abilities, you can feel their eyes go back. But if I say something instead, like, have you ever had this feeling where, you know, you think about something and that like shows up or you think about somebody and they call you or you feel like somebody's looking at you, staring at you, like gut feeling? Everybody can relate to that. Like, that's not a weird thing to talk about. Everybody's like, oh, yeah. I've had when they get like goosebumps, you know, thinking about this one time that this thing happened. So people are aware of.

• 1:44:32Speaker 03

  What they won't maybe label as psychic instances, but that's what it is, you know? Things that you can't explain, you know, with with modern science.

• 1:44:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And again, it's written about throughout history.

• 1:44:46Speaker 03

  Throughout history.

• 1:44:47Danny Jones?

  All the, you know, there's tons of ancient Greek stuff that like talks about this crap.

• 1:44:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:52Danny Jones?

  There was, there's even like this idea, this, this ancient Greek, I forget who wrote about this. This might be another Orphic thing where like, the idea is that when you're born,

• 1:45:07Danny Jones?

  that's only a part of who you are. Your life is spent

• 1:45:14Danny Jones?

  retrieving all of your memories that make you you. Like when your body is born.

• 1:45:20Speaker 03

  Oh, man. Yeah.

• 1:45:22Danny Jones?

  That's not all of you. All of you is already, is already there in the ether, right? But you have to go through your life to know yourself. That's why it says on the Temple of Apollo, know yourself.

• 1:45:35Speaker 03

  Oh, wow. I love that.

• 1:45:36Danny Jones?

  You know?

• 1:45:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:45:37Danny Jones?

  So like, what if you're just, you're just already there? Like, say, maybe this is, I don't know if it's tied into like reincarnation, but I could see how you could make a link to reincarnation to like,

• 1:45:49Danny Jones?

  a new body is born and you spend your life going through, going through your life and downloading all these new experiences and all these new memories until like you've reached the peak to where you've actually become yourself and you actually know who you are. And maybe that was destined, predestined the whole time.

• 1:46:08Speaker 03

  Yeah. And what every life is just that journey, right?

• 1:46:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:11Speaker 03

  Like start kind of from scratch and build it all.

• 1:46:13Danny Jones?

  Right. Maybe it's not all random. Maybe it's already, maybe it was there already, you know?

• 1:46:19Speaker 03

  Have you ever done like a past life regression?

• 1:46:21Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:46:22Speaker 03

  Or spoken to anybody?

• 1:46:23Danny Jones?

  I've spoken to people about it, but I've never done it. No.

• 1:46:27Danny Jones?

  The kids talk, there's a, there's a lot of kids like in that, that'll be the tapes. The kids talk about that. I had another guy in here, Jeffrey Kreipel, talk about that. He, he's a religious scholar guy. And he was saying that like, there's more accounts of children recalling past lives than anyone else. And he says there's also commonly their, in their past lives, they're also males most often. Because he thinks that.

• 1:46:59Danny Jones?

  Something to do with having the memory of a past life, you're only going to remember the most traumatic of past lives.

• 1:47:07Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:47:07Danny Jones?

  And he says that men historically died in the most violent, traumatic ways.

• 1:47:12Speaker 03

  That makes sense, yeah.

• 1:47:12Danny Jones?

  So maybe that could be a link.

• 1:47:14Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting, yeah.

• 1:47:15Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:16Speaker 03

  But I've heard the thing about children having, you know, like in their new life at young ages, like being able to sell, uh, say information about their past life and then having it verified, like knowing, you know, the name of this person in this town that was their brother in their past life and they can go to that town.

• 1:47:34Danny Jones?

  No shit and they're still alive?

• 1:47:35Speaker 03

  I don't know if they're alive, but there was records of that person.

• 1:47:38Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 1:47:38Speaker 03

  Stuff like that. Um, but again, I say this as I've heard these anecdotes, but who knows? Maybe it's just like some of these grifters, like it's just a story that gets kind of morphed and it's actually not true. I don't know, you know?

• 1:47:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:51Speaker 03

  But I've heard stuff like that.

• 1:47:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I've heard a lot of stuff like that, too.

• 1:47:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:56Danny Jones?

  I think it's, I think there's something to it, you know?

• 1:47:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:59Danny Jones?

  Problem thing, the, the, the problem is like no one takes it, it's too stigmatized for people to take seriously and actually study and like verify, like no, no academic journal is going to publish that and say, yes, past lives are real, like we were reincarnated, psychic abilities are real, like.

• 1:48:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:14Danny Jones?

  It's just not, we're just not in a place right now, like this is, our society is not in a place to make that reality.

• 1:48:22Speaker 03

  Not yet, no. There's even the psychics or people with these abilities will say that being put on the spot affects the ability, which is unfortunate because then it makes it harder to test, right? How convenient, but, but maybe it's true, you know, like you have to have these, these right intentions, the scenario matters. And, and again, as I go back to what I said earlier, that it's a very small effect and it's very slippery for our, our us weak humans, mentally weak intuitive humans. Um, so that any little, there's so much noise that like to actually focus in on the thing that is the information that we're pulling in is hard to do in a lot of, uh, settings, right? I don't know.

• 1:49:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah, maybe it's not meant to be described or to be known by people who aren't experiencers.

• 1:49:10Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:49:10Danny Jones?

  You know, similar to like doing DMT, like you have the experience, it's a, it's a personal experience that.

• 1:49:18Danny Jones?

  It's a it's a 64 bit experience that you can't communicate like trying to put it into words is like putting something that's 64 bit into two bit. Right? Like, there's no way you can actually articulate what happened in words.

• 1:49:34Danny Jones?

  Did you maybe it's maybe it's by design, maybe that's.

• 1:49:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, right. Did you? So when you came out of your trips, was it like? Instantly, you like were so aware of what just happened, but then when you like try to vocalize it or write it down, it just like fails. Your words, your words fail you, right?

• 1:49:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:52Speaker 03

  Like, it's hard to just you feel like you have all the answers suddenly and then it just like you don't know what to do because you can't.

• 1:49:57Danny Jones?

  The first time I did it, it was like the closest thing I could possibly imagine to what dying is.

• 1:50:04Danny Jones?

  Because it was like it was like my soul shuttling through light arteries and I was disconnected from everything on earth. Like, because I was thinking about, wow, like, my house, my job, my family, all of that is I'm disconnected from it all now. And I'm like fucking teleporting to another world. That's what I felt like.

• 1:50:22Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:50:23Danny Jones?

  Um, that was the first time.

• 1:50:24Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:50:25Danny Jones?

  Second time was way different, but um.

• 1:50:28Speaker 03

  Did you?

• 1:50:28Danny Jones?

  But I was I was I was able to talk. I was able to explain that. I was able to explain everything that was happening like right immediately afterwards. It was very fresh, but it faded after a while. It faded pretty quickly.

• 1:50:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, I had a similar I didn't I never like blasted off as people talk about, but I was in this waiting room. Place and I definitely had some enlightening experiences, but it was hard to and it's still hard to like fully explain what I felt. In human words.

• 1:50:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:57Speaker 03

  You know?

• 1:50:58Danny Jones?

  It does something to your brain. I think it makes you smarter.

• 1:51:02Speaker 03

  I think so, too. Yeah.

• 1:51:03Danny Jones?

  Most people I talk to that, I don't know. And again, this could just be some sort of like people who are.

• 1:51:13Danny Jones?

  Habitual like DMT gurus or whatever, they have this Messiah effect. They have this like aura to themselves where they think that they are like more enlightened than you are. You know what I mean? Like they have this all enlightened, like maybe that's part of it. But in general, I feel like the most people I've talked to that that experience that that do psychedelics and that have experienced them have a a better grip of of words and ideas and abstract ideas and conveying them and are more, you know, open minded. But, you know, I don't know what came first that or the psychedelics, right? Like, it could just be that's the type of person that would be open to trying psychedelics in the first place.

• 1:51:57Speaker 03

  True. Yeah. I was gonna say, like, Andrew Galmor has, like, I think he speaks so well about that stuff. Like, he uses the right words. You don't think so?

• 1:52:07Danny Jones?

  I think so, too. Yeah.

• 1:52:07Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:52:08Danny Jones?

  No, no, I was gonna say, I think, I think the accent probably helps him out. Makes him sound smart. But you're saying that. He's super smart. Yeah, he's a very, very smart guy. Very, very articulate dude.

• 1:52:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:19Danny Jones?

  But he's also a brain scientist.

• 1:52:21Speaker 03

  True. Right. Yeah. Not he wasn't a brain scientist because he.

• 1:52:25Danny Jones?

  Right. Let's compare him to a brain scientist who doesn't do DMT and see how they how they stack up against each other.

• 1:52:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. Um, I wanna, at some point, I don't know when, um, I have to get my kids out of the house, but I would like to try a DMT while memorizing a deck of cards or something.

• 1:52:40Danny Jones?

  Ooh.

• 1:52:41Speaker 03

  Even if I could, I don't, I don't.

• 1:52:42Danny Jones?

  I don't fucking touch a deck of cards. You'd be like, fuck this.

• 1:52:45Speaker 03

  I know. Like, starting it, I'm like, that's my intention, but probably, you know, I'm like, what is the meaning of this? Like, why would I? But I wonder, like, how intense, if I could even memorize a deck of cards, if it would be easier to like, I think it would be harder to do the task because I'd probably find it meaningless or something.

• 1:53:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:01Speaker 03

  Um, or so distracted by other things. But if I could actually sit down to get the memory process going, if that process would be enhanced in any way, um, my inkling is that it wouldn't be a good, uh, experiment. Um, but I do think that.

• 1:53:18Speaker 03

  Over time, people have suggested this, that if I did psychedelics more, that I would actually get better at memorizing afterwards. Like, it would open up my brain.

• 1:53:28Danny Jones?

  What do you think about that?

• 1:53:29Speaker 03

  I don't know. I think I've done pretty good for myself in terms of enhancing my memory through normal means, but I definitely think there's something to psychedelics, like remapping your brain. And I could see that helping with memory in general, just because you'd have maybe more information to kind of pull on when making associations. I don't know.

• 1:53:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah. I think there's definitely a big connection with those kinds of drugs and the Greeks. I think they were definitely experimenting with that stuff a lot more than like cultures are today.

• 1:54:08Speaker 03

  Does it go that far back?

• 1:54:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I think it goes back pretty, pretty, pretty damn far. Definitely, definitely goes back into ancient Greek. I mean, you have, you have like the Illusinian mysteries and stuff like that, where they were, they were drinking psychedelic wine and they were doing chants and music and like ritual, religious stuff where like, there's something that happens, I think, when you combine these psychoactive drugs with, with groups of people that are like dancing and, and engaging in like rites and rituals and there's music involved and there's fucking orgies involved. Like, imagine what kind of like transcendent shit you can

• 1:54:51Danny Jones?

  that would happen in a setting like that. And that stuff wasn't, I mean, the Greeks were sickos, dude. They were like, they were like obsessed with, you know, all kinds of crazy stuff. And a lot of those religious pagan, a lot of those like pagan rituals that they were doing were like very involved with sex, drugs, and music.

• 1:55:15Danny Jones?

  So there's probably a connection with all three of them where you can fucking attain ultimate enlightenment, you know?

• 1:55:21Speaker 03

  Probably, yeah.

• 1:55:23Danny Jones?

  And I think that probably had something to do with just the depth of that culture, like the philosophical, intellectual height of the Greeks. You know, not just with their language, but I think it probably had, I think the drugs probably had quite a bit to do with that.

• 1:55:44Speaker 03

  For sure. I don't think I've ever thought about that or heard that, that the Greeks were doing psychedelics. That's crazy. I'm not surprised, but yeah. What is a psychedelic wine? Just like?

• 1:55:54Danny Jones?

  There was a, allegedly they were taking, um, there's a lot of people who, a lot of like classical scholars and stuff like that, who's claimed that they were drinking wine spiked with ergot, which is a fungus, like a fungus that grows off of wheat. It's a cer- it's a certain alkaloid of a fungus and it's called ergot, ergot. And they're thinking that that was in the wine they were drinking.

• 1:56:16Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:56:16Danny Jones?

  And that was creating some sort of a psychedelic experience that they were, um, and that was like, there was a lot of religious rites. And that's like, some people that, some people claim that that's like the foundation of religion was this type of stuff. Cause imagine if you're living 2000, 3000 years ago and you're experiencing something like DMT, like you're going to think that's God. You're going to think you're going to heaven and seeing God.

• 1:56:39Speaker 03

  Exactly. Yeah. That's wild.

• 1:56:41Danny Jones?

  So, yeah, I don't know. Was that the foundation of religions? Who knows? But I could see, I could see how you can make the case for that.

• 1:56:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:49Danny Jones?

  You know?

• 1:56:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. Crazy. I was going to suggest, uh, I don't know if you do this kind of thing on your show, but do you want to try a remote viewing session? Like?

• 1:56:59Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:56:59Speaker 03

  You do it?

• 1:57:00Danny Jones?

  Uh, yeah, like right now?

• 1:57:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, okay. I don't know if how it'll come out, but we can try it.

• 1:57:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:05Speaker 03

  Um, you just need a piece of paper and a, a pen. You could even do it on your tablet, I think, but.

• 1:57:11Speaker 03

  So I will choose a photo.

• 1:57:13Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:57:14Speaker 03

  And I'll come up with some like tax number and then I'll kind of guide you through. I don't want to guide too much because I don't want it to seem like I'm guiding you to the answer or something, but I'll try to come up with a just like framework of what you should try to visualize and see what comes out. Give me a second here to find something.

• 1:57:36Danny Jones?

  This is gonna be fun.

• 1:57:38Speaker 03

  You've never done something like this?

• 1:57:40Danny Jones?

  Never tried it.

• 1:57:44Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:57:50Speaker 03

  I'm gonna save.

• 1:57:51Danny Jones?

  Remember when David Morehouse was showing us the Titanic thing, Steve? Where he was, he was pulling up the, like, all the remote points of the Titanic, like, on the ship and people were remote viewing the Titanic sinking?

• 1:58:02Speaker 03

  Oh, wow. Yeah, that was pretty nuts.

• 1:58:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah, like, people could, like, pick, they were picking points in time for people to go back to and, like, remote view, like, what was happening.

• 1:58:11Speaker 03

  Cool.

• 1:58:12Danny Jones?

  On, like, like, major, major historical events, right? Like, the Titanic, like, the idea that there's, like, some sort of,

• 1:58:21Danny Jones?

  like, major events like that, there's some sort of, like,

• 1:58:27Danny Jones?

  again, I don't even have the words to describe this, but, like, maybe there's more of a connection to those events because there's so many people involved and, like,

• 1:58:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:34Danny Jones?

  that is somehow stronger. It's easier to tap into big events like that.

• 1:58:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's some theories behind that. There's a physicist, Ed May, who's got some really cool ideas on this, but his thought is that things that are, have a lot of entropy, tend to be easier to remote view. So think of things like natural disasters or explosions or, like, a lot of the CIA programs would be trying to find, like, a downed plane or some kind of, like, silo with nuclear missiles and stuff like that.

• 1:59:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:05Speaker 03

  Apparently, those are, like, hotspots, like,

• 1:59:07Danny Jones?

  Entropy.

• 1:59:08Speaker 03

  Monogol would say that. So, and that's interesting because entropy is just kind of, like,

• 1:59:15Speaker 03

  Essentially, the change of information over time, right? So maybe it all goes back to just like the universe being pure information, right? Everything is out there, back in time, forwards in time. Everything is just in this, like I said, substrate substrate of something with all this information. And you can just tap in, right? Well, that's one of like the laws of the universe, right? Is that we're bound by entropy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like entropy is always increasing. Always increasing, right? Yeah, yeah. But there are things that have higher entropy, like, um, I guess if you like, um, have a cup, right? Low entropy, but when it shatters, like it's entropy increases. Yeah. This thing cannot be put back together. Right. Like, it's just like become more more in disarray, right?

• 2:00:00Speaker 03

  So things like that that are heightened and maybe that kind of plays into these natural disasters or, you know, something where there's some intensity behind. Maybe trauma too. Trauma too. Trauma is very tied to that. Yeah, yeah. And it could be also like a, like a, an emotional entropy too. Like all these humans together, like experiencing this kind of change and death and disaster. Right? Maybe that's just like a hotspot for, in this timeline of events to like hone in on. Yeah. Nine 11. There's this crazy, I think this was in a Dean Raden book where. Traffic jam of like consciousness. Yeah, yeah. And there's like these spikes, right? Where certain things happen.

• 2:00:40Speaker 03

  You know, before nine 11, wasn't there like the manifest of all the planes were like notoriously,

• 2:00:48Speaker 03

  or not notoriously, um, weirdly empty compared to normal days? Like there were a lot of, like, the planes were emptier than they. I didn't know that. Yeah.

• 2:00:59Speaker 03

  Insinuating that maybe a lot of people had a. Had a feeling, a gut feeling. Like whether it meant they like stayed in bed a little longer and dilly dallyed and missed the flight, or they purposely were like, I'm not gonna.

• 2:01:12Speaker 03

  There we go.

• 2:01:13Danny Jones?

  The four hijacked planes on September 11th, 2001 were all underbooked and flew with passenger numbers well below their capacity.

• 2:01:21Speaker 03

  Well, it could have been because of the terrorist.

• 2:01:22Danny Jones?

  They chose the flight specifically because of the lower passenger loads would make it easier, right? Well, how would they know? Uh, maybe they could. Maybe there's a way they could know.

• 2:01:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:01:30Danny Jones?

  Would they book at last minute?

• 2:01:32Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 2:01:34Danny Jones?

  The, the Boeing 767 had a capacity of 158 passengers, but was carrying only 81? Wow.

• 2:01:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's an empty plane.

• 2:01:42Danny Jones?

  That's significantly low.

• 2:01:44Speaker 03

  You never think about that, right? You always kind of think of these back packed planes. I've never been on a flight that's.

• 2:01:49Danny Jones?

  Well, they were all, they were also all cross-country flights too, which is why they, they picked them, they picked cross-country flights because they knew they'd have to have full tanks.

• 2:01:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, a lot of fuel, right? Crazy.

• 2:02:00Danny Jones?

  Allegedly.

• 2:02:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:02:03Speaker 03

  Anyways. All right. So I have a, a random number here that I generated with Google random number generator for my task number. Okay. So I have an image chosen. So I've made this intention. No, no, that I've chosen. It's, it's, I'll show it to you after we do this.

• 2:02:18Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:02:18Speaker 03

  Um, it's on my phone. I saved it as a photo. I said, this is going to be the photo that I'm showing Danny after our session.

• 2:02:24Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:02:25Speaker 03

  So what you'll do, and actually maybe I should just, do you have another piece of paper? I'll just, uh, show you an example. Uh, just give me a writing device. So I'll write down, I'm just going to do an example. One, two, three, four, five, six. Um, and then as soon as I'm done writing this, I'll just put my hand here and, and whatever comes out, comes out. Okay. And

• 2:02:49Speaker 03

  I'll kind of like, and I want you to try to do this, like hover your finger over this and write two things. Okay. Um, kind of a feeling you get from it, whatever you want to describe. And then a gestalt, uh, and we'll call that, just think of it as like a category.

• 2:03:07Speaker 03

  I don't want to front load you here, but just think of just a general, don't even try to think, what would Nelson choose? Just think of like, what am I feeling? Right? Don't try to game it. And it's hard to do because you're gonna inevitably think like, oh, Nelson sat down and chose a photo. What did he think of? Was it random? Did he think what I was gonna think and that's why he chose it? Don't think of that. Just try to feel like, oh, it's, it's a this, like a general theme. General theme. It doesn't even have to be right. Like, this is just to get things going. Then, once you just put that out, um, then I want you to start describing. Can you make an example of like what that would be, like a theme? Sure. Um, and we'll maybe keep it in a general genres here. Um, like it could be a structure,

• 2:03:48Speaker 03

  uh, could be a life form, could be a, a, a landscape, could be, you know, energy, whatever, something like that. Okay. So I want you to do that. Uh, then I want you to describe colors. And to it what you feel, uh, sounds, smells, tastes even. And it could be nothing, but try it tastes. Dimensions, right? Like shapes of things. Okay. Um, movement.

• 2:04:19Speaker 03

  Temperatures, stuff like that, right? Sounds. I already said that. Okay. Okay. And then once that's done, a sketch, just whatever. It doesn't even have to match necessarily what you're right here, but just whatever your hand decides, whatever's coming to mind. There's a lot of that. It could just be scribble? Yeah, but with a little, not so scribbly as this, but maybe try to. A little bit more attention to it? Yeah. And then when you're done, just type right end and that's it. End. End. Okay. Like. You have to walk me through it again when I do it. Yeah, yeah, I'll guide you a little bit. Okay. All right. So, um, and maybe make your paper vertical. Just to have a little more room. Okay. So the number is five, five, six,

• 2:04:59Speaker 03

  seven, eight, four.

• 2:05:02Speaker 03

  And go draw your ideogram.

• 2:05:11Speaker 03

  And now, hover your hand over it and really just try to tap in and think of a feeling it gives you. And then a general category, just thought. A feeling that it gives me. Okay.

• 2:05:33Speaker 03

  All right, now colors. Write down colors that come into mind.

• 2:05:43Danny Jones?

  I feel like I have something popped into my head that gave me like an idea of what it could be. And now I'm kind of like following that.

• 2:05:50Speaker 03

  If you get one of those, that's called an AOL, an analytical overlay. So on the side, write AOL and name the thing that you're thinking of.

• 2:06:00Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:06:03Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:06:03Speaker 03

  Okay, put your pen down.

• 2:06:04Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:06:04Speaker 03

  Just take a beat. The point of that is to like get it out of your head. Because it's easy to get stuck on a thing and be like, that's what it is. I'm going to describe it now.

• 2:06:12Danny Jones?

  Now, everything I'm saying is like reinforcing it.

• 2:06:14Speaker 03

  Right. And so now the idea is to kind of let that go and go back and just try to see what comes through the stream again. So you can continue.

• 2:06:23Danny Jones?

  Just write, write anything?

• 2:06:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, so you know, taste, smells, sounds, temperature, what's the temperature? You know, is it? Yeah.

• 2:06:35Danny Jones?

  It's supposed to be like looking at it?

• 2:06:37Speaker 03

  And not even, just, just a feeling that comes like if you were to write down any color right now, like you're going to write something down. Where does that come from? It's an intuitive thing, like it came from somewhere. That's kind of the idea here is that like if you're trying just to write like freehand, what comes out, like something will come out.

• 2:06:53Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:06:54Speaker 03

  From somewhere. And the more mindless it is, like the more like where did it come from, right?

• 2:07:00Danny Jones?

  Right. Okay.

• 2:07:02Speaker 03

  Okay. Do you do your sketch? Oh, do a little sketch now?

• 2:07:05Danny Jones?

  Another sketch?

• 2:07:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, this one was just like an ideogram, we call it. But then the next one will be more like an intentful sketch, right? You can piece together some of the information that you have, if it makes sense.

• 2:07:16Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:07:17Speaker 03

  But now you're actually trying to draw something, you know, not just a scribble.

• 2:07:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, it doesn't have to be like an amazing piece of art, just.

• 2:07:29Speaker 03

  Okay. All right, and just right and somewhere on the bottom, bottom. Okay. Voila. All right, let's see what you got.

• 2:07:35Speaker 03

  It's like a bird. All right, and what do you have? You have, um. So you had life form. Life form. Animal. Yeah. Then your colors, you had orange, white, you had walking, smelling predator, AOL was your bird. And then what does it say here? Uh, what's that? Cool? Cold. Cold. Cold, red, evil, uh, good vision. Good vision, okay. I don't know why, I don't know why. So you, you clearly had like, uh, you went down a. I went down a rabbit hole. A rabbit hole. This is what it was.

• 2:08:08Speaker 03

  Okay, not even close. How would you rate that on a scale of one to 10? Zero. Zero. You know, and this is, this happens often. Yeah. And, and it's, it's hard like to, to pull information in without like getting fixated on a thing. And even when you do get fixated on a thing, how do you let that go? Yeah. Focus on the stream. Right. Um, and sometimes I've done this with people and they have like insane sessions where they're like, they drew the thing or like a lot of components matched. And I've had other ones that just don't quite, you know? Or you look at it and you're kind of like, well, you know, you said white and orange. Well, I mean, the general colors there. Oh, that's true. White and orange. Yeah, that's true. Is that something? Interesting.

• 2:08:49Speaker 03

  You drew somewhat of a beak there. Is that, that maybe like kind of what, like if you were tapping in at this, into this at all. Hmm. You know, but then on the flip side, is this just like us trying to fit this? Exactly. You know? Yeah. And that's where like in a session like this, I really wouldn't give much to it. Um, but there's been sessions where, you know, I've drawn the fucking thing and it's like. Wow. That wasn't a guess, you know, it was the thing. Uh huh.

• 2:09:18Danny Jones?

  Let's try it the other way.

• 2:09:19Speaker 03

  I was gonna say, I'll try one. I've never done it like on the spot, but it should be fair that I tried it as well.

• 2:09:26Speaker 03

  So yeah, you choose a number or you choose a picture. And then find some like six digit number to give me as a task number.

• 2:09:33Danny Jones?

  Steve, you have any paper?

• 2:09:35Speaker 03

  That's why when there's the best remote viewing projects are set up so that they're like blind, double blind. You know, that's the best. When people are like, can you remote view my future? You know, that's, that's hard to do because now I suddenly, I mean, I don't know much about you, but I know something about you and I, you know, I know you, you live here and like I can already, I already have it front loaded with information. So it's not biased at all.

• 2:10:02Speaker 03

  But then the question is like, well, if you're psychic, you're psychic. Like can't you, why are there all these limitations, you know? I don't know the answer to that.

• 2:10:10Speaker 03

  Hand me the pen when you're.

• 2:10:11Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:10:14Danny Jones?

  I got the picture, but there's no number associated with it.

• 2:10:16Speaker 03

  That's fine. You can just make up a number, like write, write a six digit number on the paper that you're deciding is going to represent, represent this photo.

• 2:10:24Danny Jones?

  Okay. Let me see your pen.

• 2:10:30Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:10:31Speaker 03

  Okay. All right. Give it back. Let me just, uh, give me that number.

• 2:10:35Danny Jones?

  The number is seven, six, seven.

• 2:10:37Speaker 03

  Yep. Seven, six, seven.

• 2:10:38Danny Jones?

  One, one, four.

• 2:10:39Speaker 03

  One, one, four. Okay. So I'm doing it a little different. I write my name at the top. But the date, what is it? October 16, 2025. All right. Now. Six, seven, six, seven, one, one, four. Okay.

• 2:10:59Danny Jones?

  All right. He wrote it down on the piece of paper. Now he's just scribbling shit on the paper.

• 2:11:05Danny Jones?

  He's tapping into the muse right now.

• 2:11:13Speaker 03

  All right.

• 2:11:15Speaker 03

  All right, this is stuff that I got. Before you show me, I'll just say what I got. Again, I haven't done this in a while. It could be a total whiff. Okay. That's, that's the idea and, and you know, I'm sure David Morehouse does this way more formally. You're talking to Mike. I'm sorry. Yep. Yeah. But this is kind of the shorthand version that I do. I don't do it much anymore. Okay. I do it in some cases just to like, see if I still have it. And there was a time when I would do this every day. Chris would do it as well every day. We were training it and we would get better at it. Right. It's one of these skills, just like memory where you get better at it. There's actually a phenomenon with it where at the beginning you have insane hits, like really good sessions. And then there's like a fall off.

• 2:11:59Speaker 03

  I don't know if it's because you like over, start to overthink it or something. But I have this false sense of confidence, but then through practice you can get back up to better.

• 2:12:10Speaker 03

  I'll stop delaying here. All right. So some of the colors here were just, I don't necessarily do it in order and colors, sounds, smells like that. Right. But I have like black, green, dark, green, leafy, jungly, wet, damp, rain, overhang. I started to write trees here. Cause I had an AOL there, but I wrote that down. Then reaching up, closed, overarching, bleak, dreary, brown. I wrote down waking, evil, breaking through, flaky. And then I started to try to hone in on some other things here. Yeah. Filled, damp, evil, low light, empty. Started like, it's just like a very dark kind of, I don't know, scene, hole, tunnel, guided path.

• 2:12:55Speaker 03

  Black, brown, green, dark shades. That's kind of what I got. And then my sketch, you know, it's not much, but I had some kind of like pathway through something with some like vertical elements to it. With some kind of like roof overhang there. I don't know.

• 2:13:10Danny Jones?

  Your, your, your descriptions were pretty spot on. That's what it is.

• 2:13:16Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting. Okay. Let's see.

• 2:13:18Danny Jones?

  It's a very dark, dreary, dark green, brown, black scene of two crows floating on like a brown suitcase type chest in the ocean.

• 2:13:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, I definitely picked up on the, the dreary, the wet.

• 2:13:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:34Speaker 03

  Um, the overhang being the clouds, perhaps. My sketch was not on par at all. Um, but, uh.

• 2:13:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but your descriptive words were very, very close.

• 2:13:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, so take that with.

• 2:13:48Danny Jones?

  Can you see this on the camera, Steve?

• 2:13:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, hold it up for your camera. Just poke it right at your camera. Yeah.

• 2:13:57Danny Jones?

  Crazy, right?

• 2:13:57Speaker 03

  Okay, so if I were to grade that, I'd probably say, I don't know, like a four or five out of 10, 4.5 out of 10.

• 2:14:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah, dude.

• 2:14:04Speaker 03

  But you, you as someone watching that felt like I tapped in on something, maybe?

• 2:14:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:14:11Speaker 03

  And so sometimes it's like that where you get elements.

• 2:14:13Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:14:14Speaker 03

  And, and, and this, again, this was like, like back of the napkin version of it. There's many steps, like as you get deeper that you start with this. And that's like, like flirting with the signal. You know, you get pieces of it. There's noise, but you get pieces of it. And then you like go bit by bit down certain rabbit holes and pull out more information. And by the end of it, you can build something a lot more detailed. And, you know, it even sounds like I was really tapping into like this foresty thing.

• 2:14:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:44Speaker 03

  Even though I, because I started with the wet damp thing and that was kind of correct.

• 2:14:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah, wet damp. Yeah, it was in the water.

• 2:14:49Speaker 03

  Yeah. Um, and so maybe I went too far down the logical rabbit hole my brain was telling me to was that, oh, it's like a jungly forest with trees. And so I wrote down trees, tried to deal with that. And then you try to get back and that's.

• 2:15:00Danny Jones?

  Reset.

• 2:15:01Speaker 03

  That's hard though. Like I'm not the best at this, but pro remote viewers can do that and will come up with some really detailed information.

• 2:15:09Danny Jones?

  It's also interesting that mine was about a bird and like an evil.

• 2:15:14Speaker 03

  Dude, yeah, maybe you even like.

• 2:15:16Danny Jones?

  Maybe I saw the future.

• 2:15:16Speaker 03

  You saw your own shit. That can happen too. It's called displacement where you're like. Memorize, oh, not memorizing, uh, remote viewing the next thing or the, the, the thing before like

• 2:15:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:27Speaker 03

  You know, cause like, maybe you got the signal, but you were like off a channel, you know?

• 2:15:32Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right. Maybe I was seeing the future.

• 2:15:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:35Danny Jones?

  Dude, that's crazy.

• 2:15:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Cause what else did you write here? I mean, uh, life form animal, orange, white, no.

• 2:15:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah, no, orange or white.

• 2:15:44Speaker 03

  But even still, the bird is kind of interesting.

• 2:15:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah. The bird was interesting. I don't know why. Cause I got, I think I got the bird thing from that, that I drew like a beak there.

• 2:15:51Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting.

• 2:15:52Danny Jones?

  And that got stuck on that. Looked like an eye and a beak.

• 2:15:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Um, I think that all this is, and there's different protocols that, different camps of the remote, original remote viewers that will do it slightly different.

• 2:16:04Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:16:04Speaker 03

  Um, I think all you're doing is you're trying to quiet the, the, the logical mind.

• 2:16:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:10Speaker 03

  That's gonna just like, try to make meaning out of shit.

• 2:16:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:13Speaker 03

  Because when you silence that, that's when you, you know, you're, you're, you quiet the intellect, your intuition raises. And that's what this is all trying to do, you know, whether I write my name in the corner, you know, focus on the number, like it's always for me to just like, blank out in a way and just listen to what is just naturally coming to me without thinking.

• 2:16:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:16:32Speaker 03

  The better you can do that, I think the better you can.

• 2:16:34Danny Jones?

  To quiet your mind.

• 2:16:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. Which is, it sounds so opposite. You're trying to like, listen to your mind at the same time, you know? Yeah.

• 2:16:43Danny Jones?

  Or listen to a signal that's coming into your mind, right? Like to completely shut out the analy- shut down like the analytical thinking mind and just like, become a blank, turn your mind like a blank canvas to receive something else that's there.

• 2:16:57Speaker 03

  Cause that's all we do. Day in, day out is we listen to our analytical mind. We're just always trying to make sense out of stuff, trying to, um, logically deduce this from that and think things through, but, you know, listening to our gut and our intuition, there's a lot of value and insight there.

• 2:17:13Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:17:14Speaker 03

  And I think that's where this stuff comes through.

• 2:17:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah, dude, that's super interesting.

• 2:17:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:20Danny Jones?

  Are there any other like memory champions or memory competitors that are into this stuff like you are?

• 2:17:25Speaker 03

  There was another memory champion, uh, who was recruited on that project.

• 2:17:29Danny Jones?

  Uh, oh, okay.

• 2:17:30Speaker 03

  But I won't name it because he's, I don't think he believes in it.

• 2:17:34Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:17:34Speaker 03

  He was really good too, which is funny.

• 2:17:36Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:17:37Speaker 03

  He just thought it was all bullshit.

• 2:17:38Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:17:39Speaker 03

  And, you know, he was just like, oh, the guy was setting it up and it's all chance and just, uh, bias, you know, like, um,

• 2:17:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:46Speaker 03

  Just I'm, I'm creating my own experience. Anyways, um, so I won't say his name, but he was into it. And then there is another, the other US memory champion after I stopped, John Graham.

• 2:17:56Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:17:57Speaker 03

  He's separately gotten into this stuff, uh, as well. We discovered that a couple of years ago and we're like, you're into it too? Like the.

• 2:18:05Danny Jones?

  Have you ever heard of Itzahk Bentov?

• 2:18:08Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:18:09Danny Jones?

  There's a, he was a, uh, he was a, um, I think he was, um, an engineer

• 2:18:17Danny Jones?

  or a mathematician who came up with the, um, this astral projection process. And he called, it was called the gateway process. And there was a whole CIA, um, declassified CIA program on this, on this astral projection that was called the gateway program.

• 2:18:36Speaker 03

  You're not confusing it with the gateway experience at, at Monroe Institute?

• 2:18:40Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's the same thing, I think.

• 2:18:41Speaker 03

  Okay. I mean, but that was by, uh, the Robert Monroe.

• 2:18:45Danny Jones?

  Well, this was somehow tied to it.

• 2:18:47Speaker 03

  Was it?

• 2:18:48Danny Jones?

  Um, yeah, yeah. He offered, um, one of his books was stalking the wild pendulum.

• 2:18:55Speaker 03

  I've seen the cover of that.

• 2:18:56Danny Jones?

  There's an incredible video, Steve, if you can find it, um, of him, basically he's on like a talk show. Just search for like Itzahk Bentov talk show interview where he's explaining this bell, this bell curve of human consciousness.

• 2:19:14Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting.

• 2:19:14Danny Jones?

  And he was basically saying that like, um, on the two ends of the bell curve, you have like really, really dumb people. Then you have like really, really smart people on like the top far end of the bell curve. The middle of the bell curve is like average intelligence. And then you have on the very far end of the bell. Yeah, this is it. Here, put the headphones on so you can hear this. This is amazing.

• 2:19:36Speaker 07

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• 2:20:36Speaker 09

  ...positivity of information that we gather during life. Physical bodies are here, another physical body, another physical body, and this is Joe, and this is Jim, and this is Sarah, et cetera. Now, clearly, this is the physical level, yeah? Now, on this physical level, we are separate. You sit there, and I sit here, and we're all separate. Now, let's draw another level. This level is slightly higher, and let's call this the level of the soul, yeah? Well, there will be some mingling here. Let's draw this person as extending to practically infinity this way. Now, look what happens.

• 2:21:21Speaker 09

  At the physical level, we are separate. We are separate, and there's this much distance between us. Let's say that on the soul level, this person extends this much, and the other person gets slightly mixed in with him. That is, the souls are, in a way, in touch with each other. Okay, they overlap, these two lines. Now, let's go now to a higher level, and let's call this, say, the level of the higher self, which is kind of the boss of that soul. There, what we find is that...

• 2:21:59Speaker 09

  This fellow's higher self extends this much and the other fellow's extends this much. There is more overlap between them. On the very highest level, which is the high spiritual level, we are basically overlapping completely.

• 2:22:21Speaker 09

  Everybody is overlapping everybody else. In other words, everything and everyone is everywhere. In other words, we've become omnipresent. This is a state of highly spiritual perfected beings, or gods you may call them. Okay? Okay, and so that we exist on-

• 2:22:40Danny Jones?

  Fast forward to the bell curve part.

• 2:22:45Danny Jones?

  I'm totally into this. Probably before this.

• 2:22:51Danny Jones?

  Different clip, maybe. It's the same interview, but it's a different clip where he's showing a bell curve.

• 2:22:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was trying to find it. I wasn't sure if that was it. I know what you're talking about.

• 2:22:59Danny Jones?

  Scrub through this, you'll see it.

• 2:23:03Danny Jones?

  Keep going, keep going, keep going.

• 2:23:07Danny Jones?

  Keep going.

• 2:23:08Speaker 03

  Love that explanation, though.

• 2:23:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I know. Isn't it great?

• 2:23:11Speaker 03

  Cool way to-

• 2:23:12Danny Jones?

  No, this is not gonna be this video.

• 2:23:13Speaker 03

  Visualize it.

• 2:23:15Danny Jones?

  Go to X.

• 2:23:18Danny Jones?

  Oh wait, oh no.

• 2:23:19Speaker 05

  That was the same thing. Okay, that's enough of that.

• 2:23:22Danny Jones?

  Okay, turn the-

• 2:23:23Speaker 05

  Wait, wait, there it is.

• 2:23:24Danny Jones?

  There it is, there it is.

• 2:23:25Speaker 05

  Right off the top.

• 2:23:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah, watch that.

• 2:23:28Speaker 09

  Thousand people in it. This is the fascial curve, but don't worry, it's not very scientific. Let me draw what is called a bell curve, which looks somehow like this. It's being used in describing random events. And the way this works is the following, that if we assume now, let's take a following situation. Take a little town that has maybe a thousand people in it.

• 2:23:56Speaker 09

  And we have this great desire to find out what the average height of people in this town is. And therefore, we go out with a yardstick and start measuring these people. What we find that a very small, very few number of people will be, say, three feet tall. And a very, very few of them will be maybe seven or eight feet tall. The bulk of the population will be right somewhere here. That is, the average or mean height of these people would be about five feet and six or eight inches, something like this. Okay, so what we find here is that.

• 2:24:36Danny Jones?

  You're on the very far end of that one.

• 2:24:38Speaker 09

  A good picture of where most of the population is. That is what typifies a population. We can use this diagram also to describe evolution. The bulk of the population today is this intelligent, moralizing, intelligent bipedal, right? And with a vertical spine and who pushes the buttons on TV and drives a car, et cetera, et cetera. Now, there is some back throw. That is, there are some people here in this area, very few people who are still gorilla-like. That is, they're hairy, they beat their chest when they see their neighbors and a few other things.

• 2:25:19Speaker 09

  And then we have other people who are here in this corner, very few of them,

• 2:25:26Speaker 09

  who are very highly developed. Because we say that evolution is now pushing mankind in this direction away from the gorilla types, towards the very highly evolved people. At this point, we're here. What's going to happen maybe a million years from now, half a million years from now? This curve is going to shift. It's going to shift like this. That is, the bulk of the population will be very, very highly evolved. We've gone away altogether from the gorilla types, no more gorillas. And what we have here now is the average man is now the retarded person. In evolutionary terms. The bulk of the population is extremely, very, very highly evolved.

• 2:26:12Speaker 09

  And the cutting edge of evolution here, these are very, very highly evolved people. We can't even imagine what kind, what kind of person that will be. He may not have a physical body at all. What was the habitat, so to speak, of this group here? Well, you just go out and you find them, they're all over the place. The habitat of this group here, what do you think, what do you think you find these people here?

• 2:26:40Speaker 09

  I suggest, so that you would find them in universities? You'd find, you know, the people who are very bright? People who are in the leading edge of professions? That is an intellectual thing, isn't it? Well, I suggest that you find them in mental hospitals, in nut houses. And the reason for that is that these people, they live in a different reality. In a reality which is very changed. And few of them are adapted to live in this reality. So naturally, they can't function very well. So the only safe place, only good place for them would be the mental hospital.

• 2:27:17Speaker 09

  Unless they can integrate their, their, their different view of reality with their daily lives. Now, if they can integrate it, then we have people like, like Newton, like Darwin, like, like, like. These are the so-called genius. The thing that.

• 2:27:36Danny Jones?

  How crazy is that, man?

• 2:27:37Speaker 03

  That's cool. I love that.

• 2:27:39Danny Jones?

  Pretty wild.

• 2:27:40Speaker 03

  That's awesome. And such a good demonstration of.

• 2:27:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:43Speaker 03

  Of that, yeah.

• 2:27:44Danny Jones?

  So he was, he was the one that worked on that whole, that whole, I think it was, yeah, part of the Monroe Institute thing was the, um, the Gateway, the Gateway Program.

• 2:27:53Speaker 03

  Can you check that, Steve? I didn't know that. Just that's, just type in his name.

• 2:27:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah, type in Yitzhak Bentov, Robert Monroe.

• 2:28:00Speaker 03

  Have you considered going to the Monroe Institute?

• 2:28:03Danny Jones?

  Um, I would love to. I don't still have that much time. Um, I would love to do it. I think they've invited me to come up there.

• 2:28:10Speaker 03

  Oh, they both contributed. Awesome. I didn't know that. Cool.

• 2:28:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah. No, I've seen they've done some, they're doing like crazy stuff, man. Still, they're still doing all kinds of crazy stuff and experiments and, you know, they have the people that go out there. They can see like orbs in the sky.

• 2:28:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:24Danny Jones?

  All kinds of wild stuff.

• 2:28:25Speaker 03

  Yeah. They were at the, the Psy Games.

• 2:28:28Danny Jones?

  Oh, were they really?

• 2:28:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. And, uh, the first night we all went out to Skywatch with them and it was overcast. And so we were like, eh. And, and Chris was there too. He, um, he had gotten a contact of somebody who was there who was part of some, uh, of the Skywatcher program. You know about these, these guys, uh, uh, going out trying to summon orbs or, or UAPs and documenting it and stuff?

• 2:28:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:28:54Speaker 03

  He was one of the, what do they call them? The psionics, psionic assets or whatever.

• 2:28:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:28:59Speaker 03

  So he was like, come to our, I've got an Airbnb. Let's all lay out on the grass and, uh, try to summon our own orbs. So we tried that. Nothing happened. Um, but it was a cool experience. Very relaxing. We had some like, meditative thing going on. It was cool. Um, but then they did it the second night. I decided to go out to have a drink with Chris and we missed the orbs apparently.

• 2:29:20Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:29:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. Apparently everybody saw stuff and they were like, oh my God, it's insane. And I was like, oh man.

• 2:29:26Danny Jones?

  Me and Steve got to see some orbs one day. We had a guy, a gentleman on the podcast, um, Chris Bledsoe.

• 2:29:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, the, the Bledsoes were there.

• 2:29:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah. We had him and his,

• 2:29:37Speaker 03

  He took you out?

• 2:29:37Danny Jones?

  Him and his daughter came on the podcast and his wife also came. She wasn't on the show, but she came with them and it was, I think it was actually on his birthday, funnily enough.

• 2:29:46Speaker 03

  Chris or his son Ryan?

• 2:29:47Danny Jones?

  Chris.

• 2:29:47Speaker 03

  Chris, okay.

• 2:29:48Danny Jones?

  And, um, I took him out to dinner. The night beforehand, we went out to dinner. And, uh, I just picked a random like Mexican restaurant on the beach or across the street. And, um, and after we ate dinner, we walked across the street and Steve brought his video camera and he's like, yeah, I'll try to summon the orbs. He's like, usually it's only in like very remote places where there's not a lot of traffic or not a lot of like civilization around.

• 2:30:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:30:11Danny Jones?

  Or lights.

• 2:30:12Speaker 03

  Light.

• 2:30:12Danny Jones?

  And the beach was a little bit busy. It was like,

• 2:30:17Danny Jones?

  Close to spring break, lots of tourists around, big hotels and stuff like that, lots of air traffic, there was lots of planes flying from over the Gulf landing in Tampa Airport. And um, him and his daughter basically sat in the beach and like prayed to the sky for like two hours. And we were sitting there, nothing was happening, there was lots of planes flying over. Um, you could tell because the planes had like the, the starboard and the port lights on them and they had like a flashing sort of like guidance light on them.

• 2:30:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:30:45Danny Jones?

  And then after two hours, we saw a crazy orb come up out of the ocean. And, and we, he had these, um, what did he have, Steve? He had some sort of special?

• 2:30:57Speaker 05

  It was a, it was a, a low light sensitivity camera. And I kept, I have that video right here.

• 2:31:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah. So yeah.

• 2:31:05Speaker 05

  I keep it on my desktop because.

• 2:31:08Danny Jones?

  So you couldn't see this with a naked eye?

• 2:31:10Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 2:31:10Danny Jones?

  You could, you could, you could, right?

• 2:31:12Speaker 05

  I couldn't capture it with my camera because I was at F like five, six.

• 2:31:16Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:31:16Speaker 05

  But, uh, but, uh, his camera could capture it. And that's these little red things right here. No, is that right? The, you, you'll see the planes fly in this direction?

• 2:31:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:25Speaker 05

  And then the orbs will come.

• 2:31:26Danny Jones?

  And then so like, um, so we, we're using this like these scion, I don't forget what the name of it. Well, I want to say it was called like a scionic, uh, binoculars that makes you see super low light. Um, and you can see any, like any kind of like faint light would be amplified in those binoculars. And I was using that to see it. And, uh, sure enough, this happened. And I say this as like, uh, like a caveat to this is, uh, I've never seen anything like this before in my life. But I've also never stared at the sky for two hours uninterrupted in my life.

• 2:32:00Speaker 05

  Right.

• 2:32:01Danny Jones?

  So go ahead, play it.

• 2:32:04Speaker 10

  Do it one more time.

• 2:32:06Danny Jones?

  So that's a plane up there flashing, but watch that.

• 2:32:08Speaker 10

  Oh, there's something right on the water, right on the water.

• 2:32:12Speaker 05

  So that's just the horizon of the ocean?

• 2:32:13Speaker 10

  Thank you, thank you. If you could flash for us and.

• 2:32:21Speaker 10

  I'm getting it.

• 2:32:24Speaker 10

  Right there.

• 2:32:24Danny Jones?

  Now it starts going to the right?

• 2:32:25Speaker 10

  It's still in the camera.

• 2:32:27Speaker 05

  Another one pops up right above it.

• 2:32:29Danny Jones?

  See the one up there going left now?

• 2:32:32Speaker 03

  Oh shit. The other one disappeared.

• 2:32:33Danny Jones?

  The other one disappears.

• 2:32:34Speaker 05

  So you can see the plane appear, and then this thing is clearly getting brighter and then dims away.

• 2:32:40Speaker 10

  It's very bright. Thank you.

• 2:32:41Speaker 03

  What is that?

• 2:32:42Danny Jones?

  Oh, watch it goes away.

• 2:32:43Speaker 10

  Oh, you see it? It's right there. You see it?

• 2:32:47Speaker 06

  That is an orb.

• 2:32:48Speaker 10

  That is definitely an orb. I'm tracking it here. Do you want to look?

• 2:32:51Speaker 06

  Yeah, can you still see it?

• 2:32:55Speaker 05

  There's no land out there. There's no land. A flare can't do that.

• 2:32:58Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:32:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:59Speaker 03

  No, flare can't, wouldn't do that.

• 2:33:00Danny Jones?

  But the one, watch the one come off the horizon again. That, that was crazy how it just came up out of, we did that one right there, watch. It's like a rising sun.

• 2:33:09Danny Jones?

  Look at that.

• 2:33:10Speaker 10

  Oh.

• 2:33:10Speaker 03

  Wild.

• 2:33:11Speaker 10

  There's something right on the water.

• 2:33:12Speaker 03

  And could you see that with your eyes?

• 2:33:14Danny Jones?

  I don't remember. I was, I was looking through the goggles.

• 2:33:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, I can see it.

• 2:33:17Speaker 10

  If you could flash for us and...

• 2:33:21Danny Jones?

  And it starts going to the right.

• 2:33:23Speaker 10

  Yeah, I'm getting it.

• 2:33:24Speaker 06

  That's your orb there.

• 2:33:26Speaker 10

  Right there. It's still in the camera.

• 2:33:29Speaker 03

  And then it just fizzles out and another one appears.

• 2:33:33Speaker 03

  Crazy.

• 2:33:35Speaker 10

  Thank you.

• 2:33:36Danny Jones?

  See the one up there flashing's a plane?

• 2:33:38Speaker 10

  Oh.

• 2:33:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's great for reference.

• 2:33:40Speaker 10

  Here, someone needs to look through this. It's, it's very bright. Thank you.

• 2:33:45Speaker 10

  Oh, you see it? It's right there. You see it?

• 2:33:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah, and they were like saying thank you to them. Like, they think they're spirits. They think they're like angelic beings or something. But like, I don't know what it was. I don't know how you can explain that away.

• 2:33:57Speaker 03

  Right, I was gonna say it. So you see that, that, you have that experience and, and Danny goes home and thinks what?

• 2:34:03Danny Jones?

  Gee, my mind, I was racking my mind for, for months after that. From, I was like, yeah, i- it fucked me up for a while after that, trying to, trying to rationalize what the hell that was.

• 2:34:15Speaker 03

  And have you spent time looking at the sky since and had anything?

• 2:34:18Danny Jones?

  In my backyard, yeah. I haven't like gone out anywhere, like to like a remote area and tried to do that, um, or stare at the sky that much, but...

• 2:34:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's I don't know. I don't know what the hell it was. There was also a weird shooting star that like went over my head on the beach that night like was like very low, like a shooting star like like maybe a hundred feet above my head that happened.

• 2:34:40Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 2:34:42Danny Jones?

  But I I don't know. I mean, I know that he he literally goes out and like films these things and posts them on his Instagram all the time.

• 2:34:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, it's just one after the other. I've seen it. Yeah.

• 2:34:51Danny Jones?

  So I have no idea. I have no, it's definitely something.

• 2:34:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:34:55Danny Jones?

  Like, did he get somebody to go out on a boat and like send a like a Chinese lantern off the boat, maybe and like remote control it somehow like a drone, maybe? But that would have been a lot of work.

• 2:35:06Speaker 03

  A lot of work just for convincing you.

• 2:35:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah, dude, it's bizarre. I have no idea what it was, but I know it was. It was definitely something.

• 2:35:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was one of the thoughts when I missed the one the demo that or the the experience that people had at the Psy Games. It's like, did they set something up? Like, it would have been a great of the best event to to to have something happen, you know, all these people are there, but like why? They're they're such genuine people, too, like.

• 2:35:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:34Speaker 03

  But you never know.

• 2:35:35Danny Jones?

  The weird thing about weird thing about people like like Chris, which makes me question everything is that he has all of these like military intelligence people that are like visiting him, encouraging him that like, yes, this is biblical shit.

• 2:35:55Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:35:56Danny Jones?

  Like, why? Why do you have people in military and the intelligence telling you this and helping reinforce your your beliefs and what this is?

• 2:36:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:36:06Danny Jones?

  That's that's my question.

• 2:36:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:36:09Danny Jones?

  Because those folks are not generally known for telling the truth.

• 2:36:14Speaker 03

  Sure. Yeah, yeah, that's true. I don't know. Interesting.

• 2:36:18Danny Jones?

  So but it seems like that that whole that whole world, that whole UFO world is just like is so deeply intertwined with those with those kinds of that like military intelligence world and the government stuff where it's just like.

• 2:36:32Speaker 03

  I've I've I've watched you in some of your interviews and I I feel like you're probably like me where some days you're like, yeah, this is real. And then some days you're just like, what is this crock of shit that this person is telling me? You know, like, there's no way that's you know, like you fluctuate. And even with the remote viewing stuff, some days I'm like, wow, there's really like, I get goosebumps. It's so real. And then some days I'm like, no, this isn't no, like, what is this? Like, what am I, you know? I don't know. Yeah, it's such a an enigma still.

• 2:37:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah, dude, it's bizarre.

• 2:37:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:37:04Danny Jones?

  But, uh, dude, thank you for coming and doing this, Nelson. This has been fucking fascinating.

• 2:37:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:37:08Danny Jones?

  Um, where can people find out more, find more your work or your YouTube channel, all that kind of stuff?

• 2:37:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, uh, you could start just my website, nelsondellis.com. You can find my YouTube channel with that name. It's memory techniques and any brain, uh, abilities that you can teach yourself. And, uh, you have a couple of books out on memory. I have a new one coming out next spring about genius, uh, skills that you can teach yourself and, uh, remote viewing is in there.

• 2:37:34Danny Jones?

  Oh, cool.

• 2:37:35Speaker 03

  Some other mental math and memory and speed reading and all that stuff is in there. So.

• 2:37:40Danny Jones?

  Okay, there's your website.

• 2:37:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. A little photo, but.

• 2:37:44Danny Jones?

  What do you use the earmuffs for?

• 2:37:46Speaker 03

  Oh, it's like, uh, just to block out distractions. It's okay. There's no music in there. It's just, uh, sound deafening.

• 2:37:52Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:37:52Speaker 03

  My little.

• 2:37:53Danny Jones?

  Have you ever done sensory deprivation tank?

• 2:37:55Speaker 03

  No, never.

• 2:37:55Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:37:56Speaker 03

  Have you?

• 2:37:56Danny Jones?

  No.

• 2:37:57Speaker 03

  Uh, but that probably would, I wonder if that would enhance. I'm it's not like this isn't water, right?

• 2:38:03Danny Jones?

  So, yeah, you flow in like salt water. So there's like, no, you don't feel anything.

• 2:38:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there you go. That's my channel. Um, I post most of my content on there. It's a mix of stuff, some fun, some more serious, some interviews, sometimes some silly, but all memory or brain related.

• 2:38:20Danny Jones?

  Amazing, bro.

• 2:38:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:22Danny Jones?

  Well, thanks again. We'll link everything below.

• 2:38:23Speaker 03

  Cool, dude.

• 2:38:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah, dude, I appreciate your time.

• 2:38:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, thank you.

• 2:38:26Danny Jones?

  All right. Good night, world.

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