Alexis Ren & Allie Michelle: 3 Ways to Stop Putting a Guard up in Love & Why You Need to Change Your Mindset On What Success Means in Dating

How can you start letting your guard down in love? How can you become more open and vulnerable in your relationships? Today, let's welcome Alexis Ren and Allie Michelle. Alexis is a model, entrepreneur, and social media influencer with over 18 million followers on Instagram. Known for her advocacy of mental health and self-empowerment, Alexis has leveraged her platform to promote wellness and personal growth. She is also the co-founder of "We Are Warriors," a female-driven wellness community focused on fostering self-love, strength, and growth among women worldwide. Allie is a bestselling author, spoken word artist, and certified yoga, breathwork, meditation, Reiki, and craniosacral therapist. She is passionate about holistic health and personal development, which she incorporates into her work. The duo are the co-founders of "We Are Warriors," a female-driven wellness community focused on fostering self-love, strength, and growth among women worldwide. Alexis and Allie's friendship began when they were preteens and they share how their relationship has been a cornerstone of their personal growth, providing mutual support through life's challenges. A significant turning point in their friendship occurred when Alexis's mother passed away, leading to Allie’s family adopting Alexis. A significant theme throughout the discussion is the balance of masculine and feminine energies, which Alexis and Allie explore in depth. They describe how these energies play out in their lives and work, with Alexis often taking on a more masculine, action-oriented role, while Allie embodies a more feminine, intuitive approach. They emphasize the importance of recognizing and honoring both energies within oneself and in others, as this balance has been crucial in their personal and professional lives. Alexis and Allie also address the societal pressures that women face, particularly around beauty standards and career expectations. Both women emphasize the importance of breaking free from limiting beliefs and societal expectations to find deeper fulfillment and authenticity. In this interview, you'll learn: How to support a friend How to manage criticism How to build a strong friendship How to stay authentic How to handle creative blocks How to empower others Embrace the balance of your masculine and feminine energies, break free from societal expectations, and empower each other to thrive on the journey to self-discovery and growth. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 03:38 Beginning of a Friendship 08:25 Growing Together Independently 10:21 Going Through Big and Small Changes 15:19 Creative and Emotional Intelligence 18:30 Validating and Complimenting Each Other 21:59 Types of Archetypes 27:18 What's Holding Women Back? 29:46 Start Embracing Your Feminine Energy 33:38 Why Did It Trigger You? 41:00 How to Prepare for Life 45:23 Living an Internally Peaceful Life 52:44 Balance Between Masculine and Feminine Energy 01:02:25 Dealing with the Imbalance in Your Energy 01:07:00 You Can Do Uncomfortable Things 01:10:16 The Best Journaling Practice 01:14:39 Speak to Your Subconscious 01:16:55 Try Leaning Into the Moment 01:23:27 Relationship Checklist 01:28:38 Alexis and Allie on Final Five 01:37:46 Giving Each Other the Grace of Change Episode Resources: Alexis Ren | YouTube Alexis Ren | Instagram Alexis Ren | Facebook Alexis Ren | TikTok Allie Michelle | YouTube Allie Michelle | Instagram Allie Michelle | TikTok Allie Michelle | Books We Are Warriors Special thank you to Kajabi. Visit: https://kajabi.com/JayShetty See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 0:33Speaker 01

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• 1:03Jay Shetty?

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• 1:48Jay Shetty?

  every dollar you earn. There's a lot of talk about mindfulness these days, which is fantastic. I mean, we all want to be more present and self-aware, more patient, less judgmental. We discuss all these themes on the podcast, but it's hard to actually be mindful in your day-to-day life. That's where Calm comes in. I've been working with Calm for a few years now with the goal of making mindfulness fun and easy. Calm has all sorts of content to help you build positive habits, shift your self-talk, reframe your negative thoughts, and generally feel better in your daily life. So many incredible options from the most knowledgeable experts in the world, along with renowned meditation teachers. You can

• 2:30Jay Shetty?

  also check out my seven-minute daily series to help you live more mindfully each and every day. Right now, listeners of On Purpose get 40% off a subscription to Calm Premium at calm.com/jay. That's C-A-L-M dot com forward slash J-A-Y for 40% off. Calm your mind, change your life.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  If there's like a girl, you know, listening who's like, ah, you know, I would love to feel more feminine. I would love to, you know, have more of that energy inside of me. First is recognizing and giving so much appreciation to that masculine that got you here, because it was, there was probably a reason you leaned into the masculine. We, our bodies are intelligent, our hearts are intelligent, and we lean into what we need to in order to survive. And so it's like, this is incredible, but now it's time to not just survive anymore, and it's time to truly like get into that thriving.

• 3:18Jay Shetty?

  Hey, everyone. I've got some huge news to share with you. In the last 90 days, 79.4% of our audience came from viewers and listeners that are not subscribed to this channel. There's research that shows that if you want to create a habit, make it easy to access. By hitting the subscribe button, you're creating a habit of learning how to be happier, healthier, and more healed. This would also mean the absolute world to me and help us make better, bigger, brighter content for you and the world. Subscribe right now.

• 4:02Jay Shetty?

  Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier and more healed. I'm so grateful to have conversations with friends, thought leaders, experts, athletes, musicians, people from all walks of life and backgrounds who come here to share their stories, share their experiences and share their insights so that all of us can grow together. Today, I get to invite one of my friends and someone who's really special to her too. So we have two amazing guests, two friends, two people that I've got to know over the last couple of years. And today's conversation is going to be one that I hope you listen to with your friends, with your family, with your sisters, with your cousins, with your brothers. I want this to be an episode that you consume with someone else so that you can discuss it just like we will,

• 4:46Jay Shetty?

  you can dissect it just like we will and you can share in the experience with someone else. Today, I'd like to introduce my two guests. One of them is someone we've had on the show before. She absolutely crushed it last time. You loved the episode. Her name is Alexis Rand, one of the most influential personalities on social media with over 18 million followers on Instagram alone. Alexis is an American entrepreneur, model and advocate for mental health and self empowerment. And our second guest who's on the show as well is Ali Michelle. She's a three times bestselling author, viral spoken word artist. And Ali is also a certified yoga, breathwork, meditation, Reiki and craniosacral therapist. Alexis and Ali launched We Are Warriors,

• 5:31Jay Shetty?

  a female-driven mind-body wellness community that focuses on fostering and cultivating self-growth, love and strength for women around the world. Alexis and Ali launched their new journal, which I'm so excited to have in my hands right now. It's out right now as well that guides you through the depths of your subconscious, helping you uncover the whys behind your patterns and offering eye-opening insights into your own behavior and emotions. Go and grab your copy right now. I can't recommend this enough. Please welcome to the show Alexis and Ali. Thank you so much for being here.

• 6:06Speaker 02

  Oh my God, I could just listen to you talk all day. My goodness.

• 6:10Jay Shetty?

  We were remembering when you were here a couple of years ago, we had a sacred Kiratan ceremony at the home and both of you joined, which was so beautiful.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:18Jay Shetty?

  And I'm so excited to have you back on the show Alexis. Ali, I'm so excited to have you on the show for the first time. I want to start by just getting to understand how you two became friends and how you met. I think it's always beautiful for our audience to hear how two powerhouse humans have come together to create beautiful things in the world. You also have your podcast releasing this summer, I believe, and it's called Easy A.

• 6:43Speaker 02

  Easy A.

• 6:44Jay Shetty?

  I love that title. I love the movie. So Easy A coming out this summer as well, and you're launching that together. But I'd love to hear the origin story of how this relationship became to be. So I'll leave it to you to figure out how you tell that story.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  It was a super synchronistic one. We met when we were, what, 12, 13?

• 7:02Speaker 03

  11.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  11. She remembers everything. I just had jokes here and there. We became very, very close very quickly. I think one of the reasons that we always stayed friends was we never like held each other to a certain type of relationship. We were very fluid with our friendship, but it didn't really cement until my mom got sick. When that started to happen to my family, her mom stepped in, her whole family stepped in. And then when my mom passed, they actually adopted me and I actually moved in with them. And her mom taught me about taxes and business and got me into all sorts of book, Maron Williamson, kind of set me on my path and reminded me of who

• 7:43Speaker 02

  I was. And then after that, we, we just knew that this was going to be a lifelong relationship and a very unique one at that because we're actually kind of polar opposites.

• 7:53Speaker 03

  We couldn't be more different.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  I think because of that, we blend really nicely with each other. And we always knew there was going to be some kind of path, divine path for us, but we didn't know what and how. And for a while, we just kind of let each other go off and do different things. I went more of the traditional Hollywood route, and then she went and started traveling. And we always have this funny joke, like, I'll take care of our outsides and she takes care of our insides. And like, that's how we got to do this. And then things started manifesting for us to actually start working together. When Warriors was founded in 2020, it morphed into so many different things. But then at one point, I was like, it would make so much sense to bring Ally on here because she's, literally, she's, she's my other heart, she's my other brain. I trust her opinion as much as I

• 8:39Speaker 02

  trust my own. And so bringing her on to We Are Warriors just felt right. And then through that, she's really helped me. Just harness and strengthen what that community does for the girls and for just everyone in it. And so far, we've already tackled like almost 10,000 girls in and out of that community. And it's pretty insane because now we've, we've actually become the big sister mentors. And yeah, essentially become the girls that we needed when we were flailing around being like, what is our purpose? The weight of the world on our shoulders? We need to save the earth. And now we're just kind of coming back around to that joyful playfulness and seeing where it takes us. And then Warriors kind of got us ready for

• 9:22Speaker 02

  the podcast. And that was really nice because it's gated, we had this opportunity to just learn how to speak to a crowd and learn how to host essentially because it is a talent and you're one of the best, I will say, my goodness gracious, like, no one tops you. And so through that, we got really comfortable with being able to balance each other out in that way. And then it just made sense. And of course, selfishly, there's so many people me and Ally want to talk to. We've always just been so curious about different people of all landscapes. I'm sure that's one of the reasons you also got into it because it's just so cool. You have an excuse to just speak to anyone that you've ever wanted to. And so now we actually have that excuse to do that.

• 9:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I think Warriors is really a love letter to her mom. She was always into the holistic health stuff of, you know, acupuncture and meditation. And so she really introduced me to all of that. So it just feels like she almost brought us together for Warriors. But to your point, I think the beautiful thing is we've never held each other hostage to a specific version or, you know, judged each other for our choices or tried to change one another. And so for me, it's been my greatest example of a healthy love.

• 10:25Speaker 02

  Exactly. We really taught each other how to communicate in the hardest ways possible, you know?

• 10:31Jay Shetty?

  Well, that's, that's actually, when I was thinking about when I was preparing for this interview, that was actually what was on my heart, that I wanted to understand. How you do that, and even hearing you both describe it as we've allowed this relationship to be fluid and it's taken on many forms, I think when you're young especially, we have this idea of this is my best friend and this is my next best friend and this person's, right? We live in this kind of very binary world when we're kids. And so we do put people in boxes and we do label people. And then sometimes those labels last as we get older and sometimes they fade away. And sometimes we still act like kids, even when we're older with how we see our relationships.

• 11:13Jay Shetty?

  How did you both develop that ability to allow each other to be who you were separately? Like you just said Alexis, you were like, I went down the Hollywood route. You know, Ali, you went traveling, you went, seems like down the healing route quite as a priority externally as well, even though Alexis was doing that internally, but her external career was different. How did you allow each other to be who you were independently, but still respect each other and connect? Because I think that seems to be a big need in our world today, whether it's friendships, whether it's romantic relationships, whether it's business and professional relationships. I think we live at a time when it's so easy to judge each other. How did you develop that over time? Was it always like that?

• 11:56Jay Shetty?

  Or was there a time when you were like, oh, you know, she's sold out or she's like, did you have those assumptions about each other?

• 12:03Speaker 03

  I mean, we butt heads, of course, because we're opposites, but our North stars are the same. And I think that's what sees us through is there's something so much bigger than us. And, you know, especially because we made it through the loss of her mom together, it didn't really matter if we were fighting because I'm going to talk to you next week. We're family. And so, you know, I think when you have such a clear devotion to someone, it doesn't really matter what shape it takes.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  It reminds me of that one poem where you talk about the marriage and how the guy was like, I've been married for X amount of years. And someone was like, I'll let you, I'm butchering it, but gone.

• 12:39Speaker 03

  So I watched this interview of these couples who had been together for 60 plus years. And there was one that had been together for 67. And the interviewer looks at the husband and says, how have you been with the same woman for so long? And he says, she hasn't been the same woman at all.

• 12:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, there's so much evolution and so much growth. But I guess that's what it is, right? I feel like as humans, we have a resistance. To other people growing, just as we have a limitation on who we can be. And we almost extend that limitation to others as well. When you saw each other grow in different ways, maybe incongruent ways, random ways. What allowed you to have difficult but healthy conversations around that? And I'm speaking from my personal experience, even I've only been with Radhi for 11 years.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  Only.

• 13:27Jay Shetty?

  And, and no, but in a sense compared to 67, I was like, oh, God, you know, I was like, yeah. But like, we've been together for 11 years and I agree with that statement completely. Like Radhi has transformed in so many ways in the last 11 years since I met her. I fully agree with that, but that evolution requires two people to sign up to that and subscribe to that. So what were those moments where you saw each other going through these big or small changes? And how did you adapt with each other?

• 13:57Speaker 02

  We would definitely trigger each other, but then we had enough wisdom where we knew when there was a trigger, there was a path we had to take in order to get through that ego and then into the growth part. So, and we also, we truly do love watching each other grow. It gives us a lot of joy and we've also never held each other back. If, if I disagree with her, for instance, I will state that truth immediately. I'll be like, I disagree with you, but I absolutely respect your decision. I'm going to love you no matter what, you know, whatever happens, I was right.

• 14:25Speaker 03

  She loves to always be right and she usually is, that's the unfortunate thing.

• 14:31Speaker 02

  But then I think that's always the nuanced way to communicate is I just, you have to voice that. Cause if you don't, then there's this passive, there's this resentment that builds in the relationship. And then you can't harness authenticity. So with her, it's like, I have to state this, but I also am going to let you be you. And so that's always been our rule with each other is that we kind of dance on the ashes of who we once were. And we never hold each other to this idea of who we're supposed to be. But she's also just become such an incredible woman and it's been so, almost surreal watching it happen. Cause when you've known each other since you were 12, it's, it's just, I mean, I always think,

• 15:12Speaker 02

  if I would have told 12 year old Allie that you were speaking in front of 500 people at conferences and traveling all over the world doing spoken word, it would. That twelve year old, you would literally run into a closet. Like, what is actually going on right now? But I think that's also when we hold each other accountable for growth. That's the main thing because there's going to be a lot of friction with that always. I've noticed in my own life, and I'm assuming with you as well. Wherever there's the most resistance, there's also the most transformation. And we've always had actually the most resistance in our friendship. Like, we've gone through so many different versions of ourselves. We've stopped talking for six months. We've gone, I think our limit was like a year without talking. And then we always like got back into it.

• 15:57Speaker 02

  It's almost that feminine energy of just letting it flow as opposed to trying to put this like expectation of the friendship. Because I think that is why relationships in any shape or form kind of become stagnant. Because we're holding this idea of someone to them. And then they resent it because they're trying to grow. Our egos hurt because you don't want them to move out of that box that you're so comfortable that they're being. And this happens weekly with us. I think a really honest, vulnerable relationship, it's a almost daily thing we have to go through.

• 16:27Speaker 02

  But then it's fun because now we look at who we are as like these little avatars. And we can add different attributes to each other and just be like, I think I want to be funnier, or I think I want to, you know, be grittier or like, and we just, we have these really honest conversations with ourselves. And then we build together, like truly, we've built ourselves together. And then, of course, that over, you know, that the energy of my mom kind of always being there, it feels really divine and sacred. And I think that really is what drives everything we do.

• 16:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was put on Ritalin and Adderall and just different ADD medications, super young, around like 10 or 11. And it kind of snuffed out my creativity. And her mom was one of the people that helped turn my light on inside. And so there is just this greater devotion to her that I feel. And I think. Our culture, Western culture is particularly noncommittal. There's almost this one foot in, one foot out. We have so many options, I don't know which one to take. There's actually a freedom that happens when you just fully plant both feet on the ground and say like, this is what I'm committed to.

• 17:32Speaker 02

  It's contradicting.

• 17:33Speaker 03

  It's so contradicting, but I think also because it's not a romantic relationship, there's so much room to breathe, you know? There, there are way less expectations and because we're fully committed to each other, we just figure it out. Like now we communicate a lot better by writing each other letters. Because if we step on a tender spot and it gets really reactive.

• 17:52Speaker 02

  I'm like, emotion feel now, conclusion now. And she's like, five to 10 business days, please. And so we really had to.

• 17:59Speaker 03

  Like, I need to withdraw. She's like, I need to explode. I'm like, how about a letter? So it's that, it's finding whatever can be a bridge between you.

• 18:07Jay Shetty?

  What was the reason that you went on the medications? And then what? Talk to me about the journey of finding your way with that. Because it sounds like, obviously, right now creativity is. By the way, if anyone has not seen, I'm speaking to the audience right now. If any of you have not seen Ali and Alexis perform spoken word together.

• 18:25Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 18:25Jay Shetty?

  It is insane. That was amazing.

• 18:28Speaker 03

  Really?

• 18:28Jay Shetty?

  I remember seeing, I commented on it immediately. I remember it coming out. I think I even shared it. It came up, I think it was on my TikTok feed or maybe it was on Instagram. But that was spectacular. It was so good. Like, how, I don't know how long it took you to write it. And you're both gonna say like two hours or something, but.

• 18:44Speaker 03

  It kinda was.

• 18:44Jay Shetty?

  It was unbelievable. It was so good. Like, it was so powerful, like every line. So obviously you've tapped into that now and that seems to be the greatest part of your expression. But to hear that actually, based on the medications you were on, that was dampened. Walk us through that a little bit, just to give the audience context.

• 19:01Speaker 03

  I just think there's so many different types of intelligence and I have a natural inclination towards creative and emotional intelligence. But my sister, for example, had like a semi-photographic memory and just got incredible grades and was very smart in a specific way. And so when you're in school and the system is kind of a one-size-fits-all for the most part, it's very difficult as a kid to have high self-esteem if that's not a value that's within the school. And so her mom, you know, was such a huge help in that of, no, this is really valuable. Like, no, you are intuitive. No, it's okay. Like, you can express your creativity.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  Well, she had to deal with me being like, I can't do math. And she's like, it's okay. Your value's somewhere else.

• 19:41Speaker 03

  Everyone has, um, no, really, everyone has their deck of cards to play. Some people are like Goodwill Hunting, you know, and some people are like Mozart. And some people can grow the perfect flower and it's all should weigh equally on the scale, in my opinion. So I think it was that journey of just learning to believe in myself in that way and place value on my gifts that maybe society didn't.

• 20:03Jay Shetty?

  Oh, that's so beautiful. I want to come back to that because I love that theme and I love the examples you just shared there. I was watching an interview, or at least a clip of an interview where Melinda Gates, who just came on the show, she was interviewing Oprah, who's been on the show, and Gayle King. And so Melinda's interviewing them and it was, it's all about female friendships and relationships. And Oprah said something that really stood out to me. She said that the reason why she's been able to be friends with Gayle for so long is because she's one of the few people who's not been envious of her. And I was thinking about that and it really resonated with me. And I started to realize how all the friendships I had that have lasted are non-envious friendships.

• 20:45Jay Shetty?

  And all the friendships, business partnerships, even relationships, romantic relationships that didn't last, all had envy in them somewhere. Whether someone was envious or insecure about you, whether someone was envious in a business sense, whether someone was envious. I remember guy friends when you were teenagers being like, oh, let's see who can get more numbers tonight from girls. And I'm like, why does it have to be that? I thought we were friends. Like, when did this turn into a competition? And it's interesting how what starts off as innocent teenage competitiveness kind of can transcend into our adult life as well. Talk to me as to how you keep envy at bay in a friendship like this and a business partnership like this, because I think it is the crux of the quality of relationship you have.

• 21:29Jay Shetty?

  And it's not talked about enough. I think it's a really uncomfortable, awkward thing to talk about. But I genuinely believe that my best friend, who was my best man at my wedding, the reason why we're best friends and have been for the past 20 years is because he's not envious of me and I'm not envious of him. Even that doesn't mean that I'm not proud of him and I don't admire him and he doesn't that of me, but there isn't that sense. Would you agree? Would you disagree? How do you feel? I want to hear about it from you guys.

• 21:52Speaker 02

  For me personally, it always makes me like my love. My love language is like helping people become better. I think that's acts of service in a form. We call it renification. Improvement. I love, I love helping people improve. I always have this like vision for them and I get really excited when I can help, you know, make that vision come to life. So, and, and for me, I always, you know, coming from the homeschooling background, um, I never felt intelligently adequate enough. And, but she was, you know, in her own right, so intelligent. And so, I think we almost reassured each other, you know, for her, she was insecure about, you know,

• 22:32Speaker 02

  you know, in that awkward teenage phase. And I, I was just way too confident at that age. So we, we mediated each other. I had a Unibrow braces and she was Alexis Ren. Let's just. Okay, okay, okay, but. But we, we, we validated each other where our wounds were most apparent. And that's why there is no envy. Because I almost look at her as like, the same way I would look at myself, like a project that I, that I helped create, that I helped, you know, and vice versa. She, she helped me really, I mean, I wouldn't be who, truly, I wouldn't be who I am without you.

• 23:11Speaker 02

  And even thinking to our first, you know, conversation on this podcast, it was so much of the things that I said, you know, were, were in honor of her and conversations that I've had with her. I think I even shouted her out in the book. I was just like, Ally. Yeah, I, I just, I wouldn't have believed in my depth if it wasn't for her, just really calmly next to me being like, you're good. You got this. You have it too. And me vice versa with, you know, wearing that dress or doing those, you know, more of those exterior things of like, no, like the time is now, like put on that dress. Let's get your, like just caring so much so that it's okay to care about it. Because I think when you're so vulnerable about a specific attribute that you don't feel confident in,

• 23:51Speaker 02

  you almost want to pretend not to care about it. Cause you're like, oh, like I don't, I don't care about how I look or it's fine. I don't care if I know math or whatever, but it's. It's actually where you care deeply.

• 24:01Speaker 03

  Yeah. But you're also like, I should say Alexis is like a genie and she makes her friends' dreams her dreams. Like she went to a corporate company to the head, marched on his office and said, you're gonna hire my friend.

• 24:14Speaker 02

  Roddy was there, actually.

• 24:16Speaker 03

  There was no position, like this didn't exist. And she convinced this owner of a really successful company to just create a position for her friend because she was in an unhealthy job setting. And so Alexis just does this for everyone. Like our other friend almost lost her script and she was calling eight different agents. She's just really supportive. And I think that's the beauty is she's the archetype of the ruler, which means she serves her people. And so she makes everyone's dreams belong to her. And I think that's the key is like, you have to nurture your friends' dreams like they're your own too.

• 24:47Jay Shetty?

  And what archetype are you?

• 24:48Speaker 02

  The magician.

• 24:50Jay Shetty?

  Ah, the magician, okay.

• 24:51Speaker 02

  She's so cute. Tell them, tell them a little bit about the archetype.

• 24:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, talk, yeah, talk a little bit.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  We've done this actually with the community as well.

• 24:57Jay Shetty?

  Go for it.

• 24:58Speaker 03

  There's, um, there's a book by Carol Pearson and I think it's called The Twelve Archetypes or something like that, but if you look at her name, it'll pop up. Thank you. But it goes through the 12 major archetypes within our subconscious and a lot of it is based on Carl Jung's psychology. And I personally love storytelling and fairy tales as a way to translate wisdom. And so there's this book called Earthsea as well, where this young sorcerer releases a demon shadow into the world. And the way that he stops it is he gives it his own name. And so by naming the shadow, it ceases to have power. And when you use these kind of archetypes, rather than clinging to one identity of like, I am this, I am that, I'm a Pisces, I'm a, you know, Capricorn, whatever it is.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  I'm a three.

• 25:39Speaker 03

  And it's like, this is the aspect of my subconscious that I'm wielding right now with this different archetype. And so it creates more compassion and understanding. And to me, it also helps me name my shadow a lot clearer, so.

• 25:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that's why I love the archetypes because it's your number one. It's just what you're building with right now. So you could go back and look, okay, the orphan archetype needs more work. Or you were saying, America, actually the large, we have the most connection to the orphan archetype because we all kind of come here for this dream or come here from other places. And it's kind of the like. Do I belong here? Where do I belong? So I think different countries too also um build on different archetypes um depending on like their culture. So it's really interesting and um what I found the most funny about all of this was the ruler and the magician have this really interesting relationship.

• 26:30Speaker 03

  It's the most volatile pairing.

• 26:33Jay Shetty?

  I love that. That's awesome. Because?

• 26:35Speaker 03

  So look at King Arthur and Merlin. That's a great example. They're equally important to each other. But the the downfall of that would be like a tyrant king, I think Joffrey from Game of Thrones or something, and then Jafar from Aladdin. Um it's the evil sorcerer and then the wicked ruler. And so we hold each other accountable in that way if we're sitting at two opposite ends of this power spectrum. And we keep each other from slipping into like evil sorcerer and tyrant.

• 26:59Speaker 02

  Whenever we're having a disagreement, I'm like, am I being a tyrant?

• 27:03Speaker 03

  Is it okay? We're just gonna write a letter. I'm like, please don't unnamed me. But I just love looking at people like characters in books because it creates so much more compassion. Because if you add a perfect character, it would be really boring to read about. You know, it's all those idiosyncrasies that make them so unique. So I think that helps too.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  And that's why I think that's truly like her perception of that is why I've loved myself so much. Because all of these little quirks I've had, she's like, keep going, keep doing it. Like she'll give me the little checkmark in a conversation with people and I'll just go off. And uh and I love it because she kind of gives me permission, she a little permission slip to just, yeah, lean into those quirky parts of me that I felt for a really long time I needed to like hold back and and keep tight. And that's been really cool. And yeah, and it's really cool too because uh her fantasy book, she put a character in for me. And that was really cool as well because reading it, I was like,

• 28:02Speaker 02

  one, I'm immortalized, which is crazy. Two, I'm awesome. Oh my God, is this how you perceive me? Yes. Now, whenever someone says, oh, Ren's my favorite character in Ally's book, I'm like.

• 28:15Jay Shetty?

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• 28:58Jay Shetty?

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• 29:38Jay Shetty?

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• 30:21Jay Shetty?

  That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. What I love about what it's bringing out for me, going back to the question of envy, is that what I've found is that when you understand your place and your pace of growth, which is the archetype. And when you understand someone else's place and their pace of growth, it allows you to be non envious because it allows you to see that you're moving at your own pace and you have a place forever and that that person does too. And I find that the reason we experience envy is because we don't know where we stand. And we kind of like where someone else stands, even though that may not be the platform for us to be on.

• 31:04Jay Shetty?

  And so it's this constant tug and war between I like this person, but I also want to be like them. And actually, not only do I want to be like them, I don't want them to be liked that much. And that's where envy kind of takes over so much of our friendship. So I'm so glad you talked about the archetypes a little bit. Is there a test that people can take, like if people want to understand their archetype? How would you suggest they go about that?

• 31:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, Carol Pearson has a website and then if you get the book too, it's in the book.

• 31:31Jay Shetty?

  It's a large book though.

• 31:32Speaker 03

  It's it's a huge book, like a textbook. But I like it because it's it's fluid, you know, it's not a Zodiac sign. Awakening the Heroes Within.

• 31:39Jay Shetty?

  Awakening the Heroes Within, perfect. All right, if anyone's listening. And I love that. And you've been teaching that in Warriors as well. That's been something that you've been sharing with your community.

• 31:47Speaker 03

  Literally anything. We'll just like pick up a book or we'll have a conversation. I mean, I remember I was literally last week went to her crying about not going to say it on this podcast. But I was like, oh no, oh no, I don't know what to do. And then she's slowly like, I'm gonna write the Warrior Workshop. And what was it? Navigating the Unknown.

• 32:06Speaker 03

  There's been so many times when we've just created workshops around what we're personally experienced because it's it's resonance. And so, yeah, we'll make workshops around anything that feels very alive in the moment because I find the girls are often going through similar things in their own way.

• 32:19Jay Shetty?

  I wanted to talk about that, actually. What would you say, having built this community, you've had thousands of women who've been a part of this community? It's growing. If you had to pick, and I know this is a hard exercise, but I want to do it for the basis of our conversation today. If you had to pick the top three challenges, and we'll just start with the top one challenge that you hear, would you feel is at the root of so many women's challenges in your community? And of course, broader than that too. What is that one, two, three? What are those three things in no particular order? But what would you say those themes are that are holding women back? That they're constantly perplexed by, that they are feeling limited, restricted by? What would they be?

• 33:02Speaker 03

  The first one that came to my mind is really.

• 33:06Speaker 02

  Knowing and understanding your own femininity, because I think this is especially in America, it's very masculine dominated, build your empire, blah, blah, blah. And I think we get as females get really lost in that because the female, you know, energy is to attract and the male energy is to like make happen and both are needed. But so many girls, they, they, they kind of spin out, even just from a biological level, you know, there's, we're a different person every single week. Then they feel like they have to like push down the doors, the way with that masculine energy forever. And they're exhausted being like, is this living my dream life? And I'm like, no, it's just a belief you're having that's probably not helping you. And so we kind of will help them break down what those beliefs are. But it usually has to do with them not honoring their femininity in some way, shape or form.

• 33:51Speaker 02

  And we have to remind each other of that because even with the podcast, like this idea of divine timing has been so helpful because when I, you know, went into more of the business side of things, it was like, there's a deadline we need to have it now, now, even when it didn't feel good, we would just kind of stick to these deadlines. But with the podcast, it was like, we're going to launch this month? No, we're not. Okay. Keep it moving. And we just kind of kept waiting and waiting, waiting until, yeah, like you're in conversation. Yeah. And we just kind of waited until it was the right moment, the right time and all, all of the, you know, components came together so beautifully. And so that was what, that's when I was like, okay, there's this theme happening here. And even with the girls as well, there's this theme of kind of running up to this

• 34:35Speaker 02

  wall and then trying to push it as opposed to letting the opening of the cave, you know, come through and then walking it. So I think that's definitely one.

• 34:43Jay Shetty?

  Let's talk about that one. I like that. Let's talk about that together. I think that's such a huge one and I'm fascinated by it. How does someone start to embrace or encourage their feminine energy in a world that's so masculine dominant, or at least would you describe it as the masculine storyline has been?

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's more of a storyline. I think it's just you have to break down the beliefs first. So you have to understand what beliefs you're, you're. It's like the car, what beliefs, what wheels, the, let's say the beliefs are the wheels, like what is driving you down that way? And then, once you understand, okay, that's, those are the beliefs that have been manifesting this creation, this life. What are the beliefs that I would like to have? I still remember, I was with a friend and we were walking around a pond one day and she was like, ah, remember when we believed things had to be hard? And I was like, ah, I know. And so it, you know, belief is a thought that you just have over and over and over again until you think it's just your life and it's ingrained into you and it's permanent, when it's really not. So, part of that has been just showing people, and acting has taught a lot.

• 35:46Speaker 02

  For me, I've learned so much about this through acting, where I'm like, that's actually, you are so much more fluid. And it really is just breaking down what these really tall structures are, and then chiseling at them just little by little. And it probably not all at once. We, we usually take like one solid belief that they have and then we'll either make a workshop from that and break it down even more, but that for sure is definitely a way.

• 36:10Jay Shetty?

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• 36:52Jay Shetty?

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• 37:34Jay Shetty?

  What are some of those beliefs, Ali, maybe as well, that you think are those restricting feminine energy and kind of blocking the women from their potential in the community?

• 37:44Speaker 03

  I think beauty is a huge one, actually, because beauty has provided security for women for thousands of years, primarily. It's just, you know, if you become this attractive thing, then you'll find a mate that can protect you. And so people call it, you know, surface level, or whatever it might be. But there is like this primal, hardwired security that we're raging against in a way. And I used to live in a house full of musicians. And there was this one guy who could just belt, like, from the bottom of his soul. And another girl in the house who could sing so beautifully, but she sang very softly, like she was singing into a bottle. And she finally turns to him and she goes, "How do you sing that way? Like, I know that's in me, but I can't get there." And he says, "Make an ugly face."

• 38:29Speaker 03

  And she makes this, like, cute little ugly face. And he said, "I said, make a real ugly face." And she does. And he said, "That's where you need to sing from." And then she did. And her voice cracked a little, but she belted. And so it's that we need permission to kind of break out of this porcelain suit that we walk around in nowadays, because that's where our power comes from.

• 38:50Jay Shetty?

  Wow, that's so powerful. I mean, that's, I feel like all of us can relate to that in so many ways. And I feel like it's so difficult. It goes back to what Alexis was saying earlier, that you've given her the permission to have all these quirks and be all of herself. And I've definitely had that where I feel the people who know me the deepest and the most well will say to me, "Jay, one of the things I love about you is I get to talk to you about spirituality, business, and media." And there's not many people I could talk to about all three of those things. And that's like the most... It's one of those moments, whenever I hear that from someone who's spent a lot of time with me and spent deep time with me, I feel so seen because I want to be all those

• 39:32Jay Shetty?

  things and I appreciate all those things and I admire all those things. I want to talk about my monk life as much as I want to talk about media, as much as I want to talk about marketing, like, and art, and I love all of it. And I am all of it and all of it is me. But I find often that I'm forced to choose a box to put myself in. It's like, oh, you can either be spiritual or you're material, or you can either be, like you're saying, you can either be this porcelain doll, or you can be ugly, or whatever, like, there's a choice there that all of a sudden, like, defines who you are. Talk to me about some of the practices you both have developed. I definitely want to talk about the journal as well, but talk to me about some of the practices you've developed, because we all know, all three of us know, that this isn't as simple as just standing in front of the

• 40:16Jay Shetty?

  mirror and saying things to yourself. That's a part of it. But it's like, this is a deep subconscious belief that we're having to rewire, and we're doing it at the same time while the propaganda and the broadcasting from the world around us is so strongly the other way. And so, walk me through some of the exercises, maybe some of them that are in the journal that you love, some that you've practiced. You both keep talking about letters, and I know the journal is full of letters. So, just maybe give me a couple of insights and steps and principles each that you feel have been profound for your own journey, or maybe you even have stories of people that you've helped that they've practiced some of these techniques.

• 40:51Speaker 02

  I feel like all of these practices sound like, oh, roll my eyes, okay, fine, I'll write a little five-minute journal of gratitude, whatever, like, you think they're not important, but when you actually apply them, it's like, whoa. Dr. McCall, he's this wonderful naturopathic doctor that we had on the podcast. He was talking about a way to kind of deal with a trigger in real time, because I think every time there's a trigger, there's a little blockage that, you know, happens in our body. And disease is the, you know, physical manifestation of all of these different triggers getting blocked and no way out. And one of the things that he said in his book was, the second that someone triggers you, you have to immediately think back. And just be like, okay, why did that trigger me? Go to the little, the child self and then have a quick, in the moment,

• 41:35Speaker 02

  even if you're with them, you literally have to, I do it in my brain. I'm just like, okay, why did that trigger me? For instance, um, I was in the car with a friend and there was, uh, my car went off and saying that there was a flat tire and it was the second time this month. And I was just like, ooh, and I braced myself for this really stressful situation that we were gonna have. And my friend was just like, oh, well. And I was like, and that triggered me that he was so calm about it. And then I asked myself, why am I triggered by this tire that's, it's gonna be fine? And then I'm also double triggered that he was so calm about it. And I realized because my household was so chaotic, that one more thing would have blown up the whole, like, just, it was just a compilation of triggers. And we, the electricity went out and this went out.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  And, um, so all of these tiny little things created this huge explosion in my childhood. And so I had this moment where I just held myself and I was like, it's okay. Your family's reactions to these little bad things happening was not valid. It wasn't okay for you to see that much stress with something that was so easy to fix. And I'm sorry and you're seen and you're loved. And it was the first time where the trigger went away instantly and didn't store into my body. So I think that was, that's been the most transformational thing I've found right now.

• 42:48Jay Shetty?

  Oh, I love that. Yeah, I can, I can, while you were talking about that, I can think of so many scenarios where I can see that as being practical and useful, I feel like.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  But it has to, you have to do it the second.

• 42:58Jay Shetty?

  In the moment, I agree.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  And you don't wanna do it, cuz you're like, I'm just triggered and I wanna sit in the hurt because it's valid.

• 43:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, I love that.

• 43:06Speaker 03

  I think whatever I get validated for the most in life becomes my porcelain suit. And so for a while.

• 43:12Jay Shetty?

  Oh, so good.

• 43:13Speaker 03

  I was the deep one and so I couldn't be funny. I was like, let me speak in bumper sticker and be as spiritual as possible cuz that's how I belong. And so it's about making the ugly face for me. And I had this poetry mentor when I first started doing spoken word. And I was trying to sound very melodic and he said, I want you to scream. And I screamed the poem and he starts smacking me with a pillow. And he's like, now jump up and down and wave your arms. I'm like, this feels so bad.

• 43:37Speaker 02

  I don't feel cool at all. And that was the point, was to just kind of slip out of my cool so I could tap into what was really honest.

• 43:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, that's such a, I mean, I can relate to that. I've said that to so many guests where I just felt like, I just feel like everyone's just waiting for me to say something.

• 43:55Speaker 02

  To levitate.

• 43:58Jay Shetty?

  And at one point, I really carried it as a weight where I realized I stopped listening to people. Because I was just thinking in my own head what to say. And then I realized that not only was I never going to say something profound if I didn't listen, but that maybe sometimes the most profound thing to do was to listen. Like, that was it. Like, it didn't even need a word. And I remember a famous statement by Saint Francis where he said that, "You should preach wherever you go, and if necessary, open your mouth."

• 44:29Jay Shetty?

  And I love that. It's like, that idea of just like, you know, we always feel like, yes, saying the thing is the thing. And it's like, well, no, just being present and just listening and just being there. And, like you just said, like, holding yourself internally during a trigger. It's not like you had to say something or repeat something.

• 44:45Speaker 02

  You get a high off of the wisdom and then you don't actually integrate it. At least for me, for a while, whenever I would hear something profound out of my own mouth, or I would, I would be like, "Yes!", and write it down. And then it just kind of became a game as opposed to real integration.

• 45:00Jay Shetty?

  I can so relate to that.

• 45:02Speaker 02

  And I resonate so deeply with what you're saying about just trying to make something profound and life-changing. Because me and Ally personally are exhausted. I don't want to be profound. I just want to be here. Fun and have a good conversation. And if it happens, it happens. It does and it doesn't. But like, letting it be what it is, as opposed to trying to put the moment in a box, in a way.

• 45:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I've seen that with all my friends who are, you know, successful comedians. I'm sure we have people in common who like, they just feel the pressure that if they're not funny at dinner, and they're not funny at breakfast, and they're not funny at lunch, it's like, people are gonna think, "Oh, you're not that funny." Like, "You're not that interesting." And they're like, "Well, no, there's so much more to me." And it's giving yourself that permission and also recognizing we live in a society where it's like, we think when we meet a dentist, they're analyzing our teeth. Like, that's all they must think about.

• 45:50Speaker 02

  Did you floss today? I was like, "Yeah, you just saw me."

• 45:54Jay Shetty?

  And they're not, they're not thinking about that and, and, but we are, and I think that's such an important, that's such an important tool and principle. I, I remember when Russ came on the podcast, he talked about how when all of his squad and his crew would come into the studio, he would try and act cool and he'd make the worst music. And so he said his favorite thing to do was get everyone out the studio and make weird sounds into the microphone and stand in weird places and do really strange things, kind of like what you're saying, because he said that was the only way I could break the mold. Because if my friends were in there, I was just trying to look and sound cool. And, and I think everyone has their version of it, whether you're a rapper, whether you're a teacher, a guide, or whether you're a comedian.

• 46:35Speaker 02

  In acting as well, like me and my friends, we like host little acting classes, just the three of us. But like, one of these acting techniques that we do is just like, follow your little child self. Like if you wanna lay down, if you wanna look at yourself in the mirror, if you wanna jump up and down. It's like, knowing what those intuitive pulses are, is what gets you into that flow state. But if you don't know what it is, and, cause every, everyone's different in their own way and how they pull out the creativity, or the profoundness, or the flow state, whatever it is. I think that's what's so almost ironic about this whole, the whole spiritual journey, cause it's realizing that it was just supposed to be fun and, oh, we were just supposed to be children all along, just like, kind of playing with it and having fun and taking all of that weight and knowledge off of it.

• 47:17Speaker 02

  So then wisdom can integrate. Cause that was literally our entire life, like for the last two years, has just been like, oh, fun.

• 47:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. What, what, what's something else would you say that the community struggles with? So we started with that big one. What else is there? What else comes up for people?

• 47:36Speaker 03

  I mean, just basic adult things, like how to regulate your own nervous system and do taxes, you know?

• 47:45Speaker 03

  Those are the two most valuable things as an adult in modern society? No, there's other things.

• 47:49Jay Shetty?

  They are.

• 47:50Speaker 02

  You need to know.

• 47:51Speaker 03

  But I feel like you're not really prepared for life and traditional schooling. And so that's a huge passion is just, you know, bringing on financial educators, bringing on breathwork teachers, meditation teachers, and really just handing tools to these women. It's the teach a man a fish story, you know?

• 48:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's the difference. It's like, we're not coming on here being a therapist. We're just coming on here being big sisters, being like, here are the right questions so you can get to your answers. But that you have to learn how to get there yourself, because that's what being a leader is. And that's what's so cool, because then on the reverse end of that, watching girls go from seventeen to twenty-two years old and seeing that growth, it is the most fulfilling thing ever. Just knowing that our work with some of our girls will go on to their parenting and their life partners and the people around them and their friends. And it's just, it's incredible to see the ripple effect of that deeper work. It's so cool, because we're like, our warriors are kind of like little light bulbs, just glowing, walking around the earth, you know,

• 48:52Speaker 02

  spreading what it means to live a fulfilled life and not be afraid of that desire.

• 48:57Jay Shetty?

  And it's amazing, you're working with women as young as seventeen.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:01Jay Shetty?

  That's incredible. I love that people are starting that early and doing the work and finding that mentorship and advice, because I feel like we're all trying to come to it as early as we possibly can.

• 49:11Speaker 02

  I know, it's like, that's a competition itself.

• 49:13Jay Shetty?

  What's that?

• 49:14Speaker 02

  That's something that I've noticed too, is a lot of people who are older than me, not by much, but they're like, oh, I wish I had that wisdom when I was your age. And I was like, it's not a competition. It's really not, because this information, this knowledge, this wisdom, sometimes weighed me down as to what you were saying, because then it put me in this box that I need to always fill and make sure people see and value me in that box. And for a while, for me, it was beauty and looks. And like, that felt so like, okay, this is my little value box. I'm gonna sit in here and do the best that I can and like, work and be the best of that that I could be, being so afraid of not being loved when, you know, I had a pimple. Which it sounds so silly, but it's so deeply rooted into us.

• 49:59Speaker 02

  But yeah, no, like, the experience being human in all different ways. But what I've noticed too, is when you finally realize you're in a box, you're like, I'll just get a bigger box. We just jumped to bigger boxes. And that's why, like, you know, when we were talking about spoken word and poetry, it's like I wrote that one poem about paradoxes and how it's kind of just like it's both. It's not this or that. It's always going to be both. And that's why when you're looking for another box, you're already in the wrong because for a while I was like, okay, if I don't want to be valued for just my looks, then I'm going to do this and I'm going to get into business and and I just added more boxes. I didn't really evolve. But the beautiful thing about growth is sometimes

• 50:41Speaker 02

  the outside doesn't have to change for the growth to happen. And I think that's what was so cool is when I realized like, hey, I actually love dressing up and being beautiful and feeling beautiful and validating my friends for wanting to do that too. And telling them to wear that up and telling them that we're going out and having all that. And knowing that it's coming from this pure 12 year old, like just homeschooled girl that, you know, had nowhere to go, but just loved fashion so much that she wanted to make it happen. And so externally, nothing has changed, but my why has been integrated so deeply that it feels now light and exciting and happy. And then also understanding that wisdom itself comes from those life experiences. And then also trusting that wisdom can come from peace as well.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  I think for a really long time I was, I was, I thought, okay, if my life isn't chaotic and there isn't these big lessons or these things happening that I'm not evolving. And then that was just a belief I had. But when I realized I could evolve and be in peace and go through these motions and actually learn some of the deepest lessons from the simplest of things. That's when it got exciting again, because I didn't have to be on a roller coaster anymore. I was like, oh, thank God.

• 51:50Jay Shetty?

  You reminded me of something. I wanted to read it. I just brought it up here. Because we're all on the same page about this idea of just, we've got to be able to look at our ugly side, our dark side, our shadow self. We've got to be able to look at the subconscious and rewire our beliefs. We've got to be able to then take action on it outside. And like you just beautifully said, like, we do just end up looking for bigger boxes or more boxes to define ourselves. But I think often what's not talked about. Is the discomfort in those transitions. Mm hmm. And how hard it is to go from someone who says, well, all I'm valued for is for my looks. Now I'm going to get into business. And it reminded me of this speech, and that's why I want to read parts of it. I'm just trying to find the right part.

• 52:32Jay Shetty?

  This was a Taylor Swift speech, and I believe it was at the Billboard Awards years ago now. It was a long, long time ago, but it was it was so powerful. I've seen the video for it. And she said, let me just find the exact part. So Taylor Swift said, and now I realize that this is just what happens to a woman in music if she achieves success or power beyond people's comfort level. I now have come to expect that with good news comes some sort of pushback. But I didn't know that then. So then I decided that I would be the only songwriter on my third album, Speak Now, and that I would tour constantly, work on my vocals every day and perfect my stamina in a live show. I decided I would be what they said I couldn't be.

• 53:14Jay Shetty?

  I didn't know then that soon enough people would decide on something else I wasn't quite doing right. Hmm. And the circle would keep going on and on and rolling along. And I would keep accommodating, over correcting in an effort to appease my critics. They're saying I'm dating too much in my twenties. Okay, I'll stop and just be single for years. Now they're saying my album Red is filled with too many breakup songs. Okay, I'll make one about moving to New York and deciding that really my life is more fun with just friends. Okay, they're saying my music is changing too much for me to stay in country music. All right, okay, here's an entire genre shift and a pop album called 1989. Oh, you heard it, sick.

• 53:57Jay Shetty?

  Now it's that I'm showing you too many pictures of me with my friends. Okay, I can stop doing that, too. Now I'm actually a calculated manipulator rather than a smart businesswoman. Okay, I'll disappear from public view for years. Now I'm being cast as a villain, too. Okay, here's an album called Reputation, and there are lots of snakes everywhere. In the last 10 years, I've watched as women in this industry are criticised and measured up to each other and picked at for their bodies and their romantic lives and their fashion. Or have you heard someone say about a male artist, "I really like his songs, but I don't know what it is. There's just something about him I just don't like." No, that criticism is reserved for us.

• 54:35Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 54:36Jay Shetty?

  Anyway, there's, watching that, her video of the way she delivers that speech is so powerful, like, "I didn't do it justice at all." It's, it's really powerful, but I feel like it's that constant shape shifting that we all go through. It's like you found your porcelain doll version and then you've realised it wasn't you, so you decided to expand because you got criticised for perfecting that thing. And it's almost like we all go through that cycle where you practise something and everyone likes you, or you start something and everyone laughs at you, you practise something and everyone likes you, and then you perfect it and then everyone criticises you, and then you keep doing that on so many other levels. How do you help yourselves and help others go through those uncomfortable transitions? Because that moment you're being criticised for the thing you thought everyone wanted you to do, or the thing that you thought you wanted to do, is probably the hardest part of it.

• 55:21Jay Shetty?

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• 56:05Jay Shetty?

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• 56:50Jay Shetty?

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• 57:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, it reminds me of what we were talking about with making me a hero or a villain.

• 57:15Speaker 03

  In the opening of my fantasy book, the first line is, "Make me neither a hero nor a villain. Both live within all of us. Make me into whatever you need, but don't take away my humanity by making a hero out of me."

• 57:25Jay Shetty?

  So good. I love that. And that's so true.

• 57:27Speaker 02

  It's true, because like, once you get... It's just in our nature. When a person gets at a certain point, it's uncomfortable for everyone. And then it's like, "All right, time to pull them down from that level." Pull the level, Gronk!

• 57:40Speaker 03

  Also, no living thing does well under a microscope. I mean, I can't imagine if we all were judging each other's actions 24 hours a day. And I think that's why the conversation about shape-shifting and being fluid, maybe your core essence is the same and your values remain the same. But whatever shape it takes, you know, life is a dance.

• 57:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and I think that is part of the service for me too, is that... And I know you posted about this, Alexis, I thought you posted something about this, like, I think it was a year or two back, and it was a really thoughtful caption around what... I can't remember the exact language you used, but this idea of what pseudo-spirituality looks like.

• 58:15Speaker 02

  Was it with the cigarette?

• 58:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 58:17Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I remember that. We went off about... Yeah.

• 58:19Jay Shetty?

  And just that idea of just like how... I think part of it is, you know, I always grew up believing that spiritual people were

• 58:29Jay Shetty?

  poor, and that materialistic people had things. And I was so wrong. I was like, you know, spiritual people are abundant. Like, you know, it's such an important quality of a spiritual individual. And to me, that became so much more prominent as I grew older and matured and recognized the value, as opposed to this belief system that... You know, you don't, you can't, you shouldn't have anything and you can't have anything and you can't create value for others and not realizing that we have a full team of people across the world who are all working on a mission, who are providing for their families because we are going out there and building something abundant. This isn't about me, this is about so many people being supported.

• 59:13Jay Shetty?

  And, and we often miss that in our world of I've just got to take care of myself and no one else. And so.

• 59:17Speaker 02

  Are you, are you pretty good with balancing the feminine and masculine in yourself?

• 59:21Jay Shetty?

  I, I really want to talk about it with you two, so you're gonna have to tell me whether I am. But you're gonna have to teach us. And it's so funny because I've had three people in my life say something to me that when I first heard it, I was like, watch what you're saying. And then now I'm like.

• 59:35Speaker 02

  Hold yourself, talk to the chat.

• 59:37Jay Shetty?

  Exactly. And now I'm like, no, that's me. So I've had three people say this to me over the last like eight years. Jay, you have the perfect balance of masculine and feminine in the way you approach life. And the first time I heard that, I was like, you what? You know, like, and my masculine went super triggered. And then now I'm like, I really appreciate, I hope that's true and I think I'm working on it. I think that's because I was raised by my mom and that's where the strong, and my mom's actually in the house right now, she's visiting, but that's where the strong feminine energy came from. And at the same time, I have very masculine qualities, tendencies, drives, ambitions. But I'd love to understand more about the two through both of you because I know this is a space

• 1:00:20Jay Shetty?

  you both talk about. I think our community would be so fascinated to hear about it from you. Because I think we've started to think of the masculine feminine energy as gender. And it's just getting complicated. So let's talk about it and then you can tell me whether I am or not.

• 1:00:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I should preface this with, I'm not an expert or a guru on this topic at all. I just love.

• 1:00:40Speaker 02

  Own experience, life experience.

• 1:00:41Speaker 03

  I just also love reading books. But I would say the feminine is kind of built to navigate the unknown. Even in the way we bring life into the world, it's like we're bringing something unknown into the known. And the masculine is really great at navigating the known. It's like the mind and the heart, you know, you can use your mind to analyze and decide what to do based on what's real and what's right in front of you here and now, but the mind can't future cast and figure things out. And yet, the heart is what guides us blindly through these moments. And so that's kind of how I differentiate it, but it's obviously a really complex subject, lots of layers.

• 1:01:16Speaker 02

  And I, like for me, I look at it as like nature, you know, I think like the God is the masculine and Mother Earth is the nature and like, look how chaotic and like unforgiving, but beautiful and incredible our nature is. And so I think it's like the two, they're lovers, they're, they're a part of all of us. And so it's, it's more of an energetic conversation as opposed to, um, and it's, and it's a way of being in the world. And for me, I naturally fall into my masculinity because didn't have really much of a father growing up. And when my mom passed away, it was like, okay, gotta like parent myself right now. Like, let's get it going. And like, I can do this. Um, and then she's, she always falls really deep into her feminine, like we always joke, like I'm the husband.

• 1:02:03Speaker 02

  If you were that, but because I know that and because I have that awareness, I balance myself out. I do things. For instance, with my physical body, I, I do things that are very feminine, like ballet or yoga and slower Pilates. Like I go slower because I know my internal natural reaction to life in general is more of a masculine, like we're just gonna both like bulldoze through this. Once you understand kind of the, your, your initial reactions to things, you'll understand, okay, do I come from more of the feminine or do I come from more of the masculine? Um, and learning to balance that, obviously it's just, it's a journey as is life and life is just the classroom that we're all just gonna sit in for the rest of whatever this dimension is. And so I think the masculine and the feminine is one of, is one of the bigger lessons

• 1:02:48Speaker 02

  that we have because that's even in like the Hermetic Principles, it talks about the principle of gender and how there's always a masculine and feminine and it's not, it's not what you were saying, it's not black and white, it's not, you know, the biology of it, it's truly like an energetic field that we use to navigate this, this universe and this dimension specifically. And then I want you to talk a little bit about how you've integrated the masculine in your life because you've done a really good job at that.

• 1:03:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think when I was very extreme in my feminine, it was very hard to actually use my will to create things where I would have an idea for a book, but I wouldn't write the book. And so integrating that, I realized, oh, okay, the masculine is, it's almost like a chariot that you can ride, it'll get you where you need to go.

• 1:03:27Jay Shetty?

  Then you can get off.

• 1:03:28Speaker 03

  Yeah. And then you can get off and you can rest, which I'm, you know, we're working on in our modern culture, it's a little difficult to do nothing. But I try and weigh now what life is asking of me of, am I meant to bring my feminine energy into this moment? Am I meant to be patient and nurturing and navigate that unknown space? Or am I meant to use force and will? And, you know, it's like the door's not opening, let me kick it down. I don't know.

• 1:03:52Speaker 02

  It's also nice to look at these energies as archetypes, like Inside Out is, have you seen the second?

• 1:03:57Jay Shetty?

  I haven't seen the second one yet.

• 1:03:58Speaker 02

  It is so good. Go with you guys.

• 1:04:01Jay Shetty?

  Have you seen it?

• 1:04:02Speaker 02

  Has Roddy seen it? I'll see it again.

• 1:04:03Jay Shetty?

  No, no, Roddy hasn't seen it.

• 1:04:04Speaker 03

  I like the second one better than the first.

• 1:04:05Speaker 02

  The second one's better. But what helps is it just once again with, back with the archetypes, it helps kind of personify these different energies in us. And then we just, like after Inside Out too, some profound stuff, guys. I had such compassion for my anxiety. I was like, oh my God, you've gotten me so far. Thank you. You've literally exhausted my body, but thank you so much for getting me here and preparing me over preparation. My God, calm down. But thank you. And I felt such gratitude for her and I also felt, I felt love for anxiety for the first time in my life. And then through that, I think joy and anxiety, and I noticed this with my dog, we're on the way to the park, she's like so excited and then all of a sudden she has anxiety and she's whining and crying.

• 1:04:47Speaker 02

  And I'm like, oh my God, same. That's so true because it's such a, it's such a similar energy. Even coming here, I'm like, I'm excited for this podcast. Like I says, you're not nervous, you're excited.

• 1:04:59Speaker 02

  But we get those energies mixed up, but they also, they they kind of service each other in a way. So that was really fun. It just, it takes, once again, I think our journey right now with our wisdom is taking off the weight of all of it. And also not expecting it to come out with something profound every single time. And just enjoying the moment for it. And and I think when we personify those emotions, it gives us an opportunity to immediately giggle about it. Honestly, I think for us laughter has been, it's everything. Like sometimes you just need a giggle. Like it's sometimes it's too soon, but I my my goal, I know I crack jokes way too soon. Everyone's just silent and someone goes, that that was too soon.

• 1:05:42Speaker 02

  And then I wait another month and then I say it and everyone laughs and I'm like, okay, I'll figure out then. When when to shoot those, when to shoot for the stars, land on a cloud, don't worry, guys. But yeah, no, it's it's it's so helpful to have just that that comedic relief. And I think that too, like that's actually the arc, the fool archetype is what me and Alex. Really implementing and love like the Jack Sparrow, kind of just everything happens to him. Well, one of my favorite characters and just, yeah, even like the Duncan Tressle and the Mr. Brainwash and just like these people who have just kind of stumbled ass backward into like this divine life. And it's like the legally blonde, like what, like it's hard, just like unraveling all of these beliefs I had around success and abundance. Like similar with you where I'm like, oh, this can be fun and almost like a treasure hunt.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  My manager, he's so cute. I love my manager, Judith. We're best friends, but he was, he was, uh, every time he calls me, he's like, guess what? And I'm like, what? And he's like, so I found this ring and it was my dad's ring and it was a blue sapphire. And then I go over here and this psychic told me and he just like puts together all of these little clues. And I stopped him and I was like, it's so beautiful that you look at your life like this little treasure hunt to the divine. And the fact that you look at it in that way is why it's unfolding in this beautiful, fun, like scavenger, hunty way. And it's just a belief he had. So I was like, I'm going to acquire this belief. If you don't mind, I'm going to take this from you. And ever since then, I've just been kind of taking on that fool Jack Sparrow archetype of like, let's just like fall into shit and see what happens.

• 1:07:07Jay Shetty?

  I love it. You know why that comes full circle? Because I told you I just went to Kauai.

• 1:07:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:11Jay Shetty?

  So they shot one of the Jack Sparrow scenes on that beach.

• 1:07:14Speaker 02

  In Blue Room.

• 1:07:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And so when I was there, that's all I was thinking about.

• 1:07:19Speaker 02

  Ah, his run.

• 1:07:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:07:21Speaker 02

  I love his run.

• 1:07:22Speaker 04

  I know.

• 1:07:23Jay Shetty?

  But no, I love what you're talking about because I think what's really interesting about it is you're talking about the benefits of actually balancing masculine and feminine energy and how you both have seen a value in both. And I think it's so strange because I think the conversation often shifts to like, well, which one are you prioritizing? So how would you encourage people to think about their balancing of their masculine and feminine? And how would you encourage them to kind of navigate that? I guess the imbalance that they may have. Because I don't think most people are trying to think about

• 1:07:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:57Jay Shetty?

  the balance because we're thinking it's either or.

• 1:07:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:00Jay Shetty?

  And we're thinking, oh, well, masculine energy is the one I need because that gets things done. But you're saying, well, what about rest and refuel and nourishment? Or in your case, you know, balancing your masculine energy with the feminine?

• 1:08:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. I think the first step is giving a lot of compassion to like, once you find out. Because I think too, we look at spiritual growth in any capacity of like, when we weren't balanced or aligned, we failed. It's just like, no, like the contrast is there to show us the way. Like, there wouldn't be light without dark. It has to come together. It's both. And so honoring, okay, maybe I've been leaning into my masculine a little bit more. And maybe it's been draining my body a lot because I've been trying to force things and make them happen and carve things out of nothing. And, okay, but that's also the reason that I'm here and safe and I've survived. So just really like thanking it for helping you survive and getting to where you are.

• 1:08:53Speaker 02

  Because if we go still with that black and white way of thinking of, oh, that's bad because I've been doing that and I'm not fulfilled, that's bad. And it's like, no, you need it. You just need to understand how to integrate and incorporate it into your life. So I just, I want, you know, if there's like a girl, you know, listening who's like, ah, you know, I would love to feel more feminine. I would love to, you know, have more of that. Fairy energy inside of me. First is recognizing and giving so much appreciation to that masculine that got you here. Because it was, there was probably a reason you leaned into the masculine. We, our bodies are intelligent, our hearts are intelligent, and we lean into what we need to in order to survive. And so it's like, this is incredible, but now it's time to not just survive anymore. And it's time to truly like get into that thriving.

• 1:09:37Speaker 02

  And then you can look at it as in now, how do I want to bring this feminine energy into it?

• 1:09:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:43Speaker 02

  So it's both, they've been, I mean, even anxiety, it's that she's just trying to keep me safe. Like, she's just trying to keep me prepared for this interview, so I don't say something stupid. Like, she's just trying to help, you know, it's all, it's all there to assist you. This is all intelligently created divinely for you. And when you trust that, like, that's always the belief I try to get girls to is like, this is all divine. If you can trust that it's all divine, then any scenario that comes your way, you're gonna look for the growth because you're gonna, because you know it's meant for you and you're not a victim anymore. So anything bad that happens, I'm like, okay, what do we do, God? Like, how is this gonna, you know, navigate, how, how is this gonna assist my growth? Because it is, because this is divine, because I believe it.

• 1:10:22Jay Shetty?

  One thing you raised though, that I love is this idea of how we, at one point, start to hate things that helped us survive.

• 1:10:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:29Jay Shetty?

  And it's fascinating, it's like, that saved you, that helped you, it got you to the other side. And now that it's no longer serving you, we feel like we wasted time, we hate it, we were wrong, we messed up. Rather than going, that served me then, and now I'll find the next thing to serve me. And I'll always honor that, I'll always have a space for that in my life. And it's a tool, it's a skill, it's a habit, it's a mindset I can go back to, but I don't have to now hate it and neglect it and negate it from having value.

• 1:10:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, or feel embarrassed.

• 1:11:00Jay Shetty?

  Feel embarrassed, yeah, that's, yeah, that's a common emotion.

• 1:11:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:03Speaker 03

  I love that, first of all, because, I don't know, I mean, I actually, I don't want to spoil Inside Out, but there's a really beautiful scene at the end.

• 1:11:10Jay Shetty?

  Do it. Oh, of Inside Out, oh, this is a full Inside Out spoiler.

• 1:11:14Speaker 03

  It is, I won't spoil it, but it's like the, the visual representation of what you just said, and it's really beautiful, so look out for it.

• 1:11:20Jay Shetty?

  Okay.

• 1:11:20Speaker 03

  Um, this is just an Inside Out ad, apparently.

• 1:11:23Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly, sponsor us.

• 1:11:29Speaker 03

  It really is one of those brilliant movies. I try to look at things in storytelling and even archetypally. I'm trying to do the opposite of my nature. Like, for example, let's say I really had an integrated ruler. The only one that is just as powerful as the ruler of said magician would be the fool, because the fool can say anything to the king that he wants to not be beheaded, because that's his job, just to be funny and honest. And so he can poke at the king's ego in a way that no one else can. And so with the ruler, maybe you're more serious and stoic, but maybe you need to bring in some of the fool archetype. And so it's the same with masculine and feminine. It's like, what is my impulse, my reactive step that I want to take? And can I actually try doing the opposite as an experiment and see what happens?

• 1:12:13Jay Shetty?

  And do you bring that in through other people or through activities you do yourself? Or both?

• 1:12:18Speaker 03

  Whatever the moment presents, you know? If I'm doing a poem and I've done it the same way 100 times and it's gotten a great reaction, I'm like, well, let's yell. Let's yell and jump up and down and see. Because I think to your point, we need the freedom to try new coping mechanisms. We need the freedom to fail. That's super important, not just for artists, but people in general, is to not be so hard on ourselves, to be perfect all the time, so. But I like being perfect all the time. It's impossible. We're just inside our characters at this point.

• 1:12:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you're just inside our voices at this point, yeah. No, we all, yeah, we all love pretending to be perfect. It was one of the reasons why I did, when I did my tour, you guys didn't come to my show last year.

• 1:12:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, I did.

• 1:12:57Jay Shetty?

  You did? Like, one of the reasons I did my show in the style I did it, and you can be honest with me about how you felt about it, but the reason I did it in the way I did was because I wanted to shake off that holier-than-thou, I'm the teacher, I'm the guide. I wanted just that to just go. And so from the moment I came out, it was me making natural jokes, humor. Everything was just real. It was who I am in who I really believe I am. And onstage, I feel like I can be 360 degrees of who I am, which I can't always be in a video or a snapshot or whatever it may be. And if someone listens to the podcast, they get all of who I am, but. It's onstage, I can just totally let loose.

• 1:13:42Jay Shetty?

  My real goal of the show was to show people that they could do uncomfortable things. It wasn't that I could tell you the right thing and you could think I'm great. It's that you could see people like you. So I would take people from the audience and they would do some of the most incredible, uncomfortable things live onstage. And it was just random people from the audience that we hadn't prepared with. They weren't staged or casted. It was truly organic. And I loved it. It was beautiful because I was just amazed at the human spirit and resilience and grit. And at the same time, I was able to make my audience the star of the show. So people would like, there was one girl who came up and she said to me afterward, she said, Jay, like literally, I got 10 people ran and hugged me after I told my story.

• 1:14:25Jay Shetty?

  Or like after I came offstage, like I had seven people approached me and asked me to, to build community with me. And it was just amazing to kind of create that energy. And that's what it was for me. It's what you both just said. It was like, I used it as a creative expression to say, I want to shake off those shackles of what I think people think of me.

• 1:14:45Speaker 02

  It's exactly what you did. And going back to this idea of instead of giving people the answer, it's more about presenting just more and more honest questions until they get there. That's exactly what you did onstage. Now, I don't know if I had the balls to get up on that stage. My God, some of those people were so brave.

• 1:15:00Jay Shetty?

  Which show did you come to, the L.A. show?

• 1:15:02Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, the one near the airport. I don't know exactly.

• 1:15:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, YouTube theater.

• 1:15:05Speaker 02

  YouTube theater. Yeah, and that was incredible because watching them transform through their own answers, like that's, that's true, just that's true power for an individual. So it was incredible to see that for you instead. Cause like, yeah, usually like a show like that would typically just be you sharing wisdom, but it felt so interactive. So I definitely saw that from my end of it as well, definitely.

• 1:15:29Jay Shetty?

  It was the hope.

• 1:15:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:31Jay Shetty?

  I want to talk to you a bit about this journal you've built and created because I think that you've thought about journals very differently. I think a lot of journals are very daily. And your journals feels like more like a journey that can kind of begin and end.

• 1:15:46Speaker 02

  Wherever you want.

• 1:15:46Jay Shetty?

  Wherever you want, which is beautiful. You both have talked about letters this whole time.

• 1:15:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:52Jay Shetty?

  And you encourage letter writing as part of your journaling process. Walk me through. Your favorite journaling practice in there that could include a letter, may not include a letter that you're so excited for people to do and why they should do it, when they should do it, and what you hope they'll get out of it?

• 1:16:10Speaker 02

  I, one of my favorites is we have like a letter to fear essentially, and it's basically you write a letter to fear, and then the next you start asking it's questions and you kind of start having this really beautiful, fluid conversation with fear. And our goal always is to get people out of this mindset of like, bad, good, because that is what shields us in all of these boxes. And so with the journal, it's just us sharing and hoping to just show you those honest answers that you guys give where you realize how it all assists you, even your fear, you know? And I also love the one where we even have you talk to death as well. We get into some, because I think, you know, Ally points this out beautifully.

• 1:16:55Speaker 02

  She was like, you can never truly live if you haven't really faced death in some way. Because that's what makes life so valuable and beautiful is knowing that this is temporary. And you also don't really know, like, everything becomes clear, you know, when, when something of that nature happens. And so giving kind of people, yeah, just a little bit of a plant medicine journey via journal. And getting them very clear on what they want, because when you just ask, like, what do you want? It becomes overwhelming, you shut down. But when you start asking, hey, what have I been shielding myself from? What do I envy in people? What triggers me the most?

• 1:17:36Speaker 02

  Like, those types of questions are gonna get you to what you truly want and desire quicker than any of like, more of the forthright coming answers.

• 1:17:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think it's just valuable to climb into perspectives other than your own. So there's one where you write yourself a letter as though you're your mother or father on the day you're born. There's one where you talk to death, there's one where you talk to fear, and it's just very important to.

• 1:18:00Speaker 03

  Step outside of yourself, especially in forgiveness work, or you know, if you need to express anger, whatever it is. A journal is a place where everything gets to belong. There's nothing too ugly. It just has to be honest. That's really the intention.

• 1:18:13Speaker 02

  And also subconscious writing. That's been one of my favorite tools that we give them. We'll give, there's like five or six just blank pages. And basically we'll give you a subject and you have to write as fast as you can because it will quite literally get to your subconscious. An acting coach actually did this with me. We're using my dad as a reference for the scene. And she was like, I want you to write as fast as you can about your dad. And by the 10th page, I was, you know, crying because I had all of these messages and things come through that I never knew was inside of me. Because I finally got through that conscious mind, back to the subconscious, and it finally started talking to me. So you can subconscious write literally about anything. And that's, that's why it's so powerful. Because you could subconscious write without any intention

• 1:18:58Speaker 02

  and you'll still get to some light bulb moment. Because it's just finally, it's like meditation. You're writing as fast as your thoughts. So you can't really read it back because it kind of gets all messy. And we're just like writing, our warriors are like, I can't feel my hands. They're just like, just keep going. But they always come to these incredible realizations. So that's definitely something I wish that you guys try at some point. Whoever's listening, it's really, it's an incredible gift. It's kind of like the morning pages from like The Artist's Way. But instead of, you know, over analyzing what you're saying, and if you're growing, and is it working? You just, you write so fast that there is, you, and you write the thoughts.

• 1:19:40Speaker 02

  So it's like, the subconscious writing starts, hey, I don't really want to do this. This, my hands already aches. How am I going to get, how am I going to write 10 pages? You quite literally have to be super honest with exactly what's going through your brain. And that's how you get through.

• 1:19:52Jay Shetty?

  I'm assuming that you both believe that most of us don't often connect with our subconscious. Or do we and do we not see the signs? How do you feel about?

• 1:20:06Jay Shetty?

  I guess the question is, does our subconscious ever try and communicate with us? Or is it something that we're always having to try and unleash and unravel?

• 1:20:16Speaker 03

  I feel like we're ruled by what remains buried in us. And I do a lot of dream work with my friend. He's a great dream analyst and he uses Carl Jung again. I love Carl Jung, clearly. But it's that, it's a language. And I think if your subconscious knows you're, you're speaking to it, it starts speaking back. I, I always personify it as a little monster when I feel like it's getting overactive. Like if things are going really well, for example, my subconscious is waiting for the shoe to drop. And so it starts looking for things to upper limit or panic about when everything's totally fine. And so I, I gave it a character.

• 1:20:51Speaker 03

  It's like this little ladybug and I named it Bert because it, it removes the power. It's that process of naming something when you can just make it this funny little thing. But I think if you can love your little monster, it'll love you back and it will help you and be with you in your life. Versus ignoring it, then it starts to rule you and be in the driver's seat. At least it's.

• 1:21:09Jay Shetty?

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• 1:21:51Jay Shetty?

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• 1:22:13Speaker 04

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• 1:23:13Speaker 02

  So I see, similar with intuition actually too. Like, once you start building that intuitive and understanding your intuitive pulses, you start having a stronger and stronger relationship with it. And then it's like, and it's just speed dial. Like, I can connect with my intuition immediately, and it's, yeah, it's, yeah. I think that was another really incredible thing that we had with the Warriors, because we were like, okay, let's talk about intuition. And all the girls were like, but I don't, what is my intuition? And I was like, oh, wow, okay, first we need to figure out how to get you guys back to connecting with intuition and what that means for you. And then through that, we can use intuition in workshops. But we had to even go back farther to be like, oh, okay, let's, let's build a relationship first, because everything has relationships. Everything is a relationship. And it's always a two-way street.

• 1:23:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I fully agree with you. We have a relationship with money. We have a relationship with food.

• 1:24:01Speaker 02

  Everything.

• 1:24:01Jay Shetty?

  We have a relationship with our bodies. We have a relationship with others. And that's something I wanted to talk to you both about. I imagine that a lot of questions you get have some correlation to dating, love, a romantic partner. What are some of these subconscious beliefs that you're seeing holding people back from love? What have you seen in your own journeys towards romantic love that you feel have held you back from really creating something powerful or beautiful like you have in your friendship? And how do you guide young women through that journey of their life? Because I feel like if there's anything that has been seen as... Put on the greatest pedestal or platform or the ultimate achievement, as you rightly said,

• 1:24:45Jay Shetty?

  was why you become the porcelain doll is because you've been told that that's what gives you protection. So that's so hardwired. What's the breakthrough insight for that?

• 1:24:55Speaker 03

  At least for me, my work is in love, surrendering the sword first. That's the only way to win the battle.

• 1:25:02Jay Shetty?

  Explain that to me.

• 1:25:03Speaker 03

  Like, we, it's very easy to throw up a guard and to tiptoe into something, especially now. There's so many options. You can be noncommittal so easily because there's always something, you know, richer, smarter, prettier, whatever it is, versus actually leaning into the person in front of you. And I think that's my work is fully leaning in, no matter what, so that when, if it ends, whether that's through dying together in our 90s or nine minutes from now, it just doesn't work out. At least I'll know I gave all of myself because I think that's what haunts me is if I didn't lean into a moment. So yeah, I think by surrendering my sword, by being the first to strip off my armor, that's when I actually feel really proud of myself in love. Whether or not it works out, I feel it's successful in that way.

• 1:25:47Jay Shetty?

  How do you respond to that when it could be that someone took advantage of that or someone misused that openness and vulnerability that you gave them? How do you reconcile that afterwards in the aftermath that it only lasted three months or six months or whatever it was? And it wasn't as deep and beautiful as you wanted to commit towards?

• 1:26:09Speaker 03

  There's not really a way for me to know that, you know, I can't, I can't peer into the future. And that's the risk I take in love. It reminds me of that Kull Jibran poem on love where he says, "When love beckons you, follow him, though his ways are hard and steep." You know, it, it's true. You might get wounded. And it's just the risk that we take with caring about people, you know, we'll lose them one way or another, whether they die before us or we die before them. This fear of will I ever find my person is now replaced with will I lose my person? And that just comes with caring about someone other than yourself. It's an inevitable reality. And so if I can face that every day and accept that, it makes me have more courage to lean in.

• 1:26:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I want to echo that just because I think we define successful relationships as lasting forever. Whereas for me and Ally, as we're, you know, learning and growing, it's really about letting it morph into whatever it's meant to be. So whether that stays romantic or it changes into something else, or, you know, if you feel like it's time to leave. Making sure that the love is still there no matter the decision, because I think it's way easier to just wait until you both get so triggered that then we can just make each other the bad villain or whatever, and then move on with our lives. But the real growth and when, you know, kind of the universe that God knows that you're ready for a partner is when you act in love, not because they deserve it

• 1:27:31Speaker 02

  or, you know, because you want to show them or whatever. It's because you are love and that's just what you attract. And so for me, at least, like with my prior relationship to this one, that's exactly what happened. I was absolutely heartbroken, but I knew that this was a conversation with me and God now about, okay, can you end this in love? Because regardless if he wants to stay, you are love and so you're going to end it in this way. And then therefore, the real partnership will come. And that's exactly what happened. So also too, you know, it is a little chaotic right now in the world with this idea of not attachment. You know, we associate it with spirituality a lot because it's like, oh, I'm not attached.

• 1:28:16Speaker 02

  But Ali also has this beautiful poem where she was like, if you don't, if you just constantly go with the flow of the river, you're going to fall off the waterfall. Like it's when we don't use that masculine energy to say, no, I want this, I want to do this, I want to work for this, then everything just, there's no, there's no real intimacy and no real connection. And I think that's our, that's my goal, at least with every romantic relationship. If I have one, if whatever it is, is just getting to the depth of that connection so that both of us can grow. And growth is my definition of success in relationship, not time. And it's scary too, because I think when you're in a relationship and you feel like you're not getting something that you want, you usually will go in your bathroom, try and figure it out, come to a conclusion and then tell the person,

• 1:29:01Speaker 02

  as opposed to being, letting them in on the conversation, being like, hey, I'm not getting this type of energy or this type of treatment. And I'm really noticing that it's an ultimatum for me in relationships. And I want to include you on this conversation because I'm terrified of hurting you or I'm terrified of like leaving this life. And, you know, just bringing them into the conversation. Is what takes the power away from it. And then it's like, it's an honest love, no matter what. And that's, it's really scary because it's way easier to just come to the conclusion and then present it to them. And it's even scarier being like, hey, I'm terrified of breaking your heart. How does that feel? But at least it's, it's, it's an honest conversation. And I'm, I'm noticing that with our relationship. I've been in a relationship for four, almost five years now.

• 1:29:46Speaker 02

  And that's it. Like every six to nine months, we just, we have to, you know, have a conversation of like, hey, is there anything that's not being honored within the relationship that you feel like you need? Because I think going back to this masculine and feminine, that's super important in a relationship. It's fluid. You know, sometimes you'll lean into the masculine, sometimes I'll, you know, he'll lean into feminine. But when we, especially with females, you know, when we are in the masculine too much in a relationship, we kind of become the mother archetype a little bit of like, did you do the bed? Like you're picking on things that don't need to be picked on. And it's usually because the feminine in us hasn't been honored in a way where it's like, have you taken her out? Have you, you know, done a romantic weekend or whatever it is?

• 1:30:29Speaker 02

  It's just bringing that romance back into it. So then the female can just like fall into her femininity and, and feel like a princess, truly. Because that's what we also want in a relationship, at least for me. I like to feel like a princess.

• 1:30:42Jay Shetty?

  Alex is like.

• 1:30:43Speaker 02

  No, she likes, she likes princess too.

• 1:30:46Jay Shetty?

  What, what, what's your take on like how this language of like high value man and high value woman is like permeated? Like social media culture, relationships and like, yeah.

• 1:30:56Speaker 02

  That makes me really feel.

• 1:30:58Speaker 03

  I don't know. To me, it feels so transactional of, I think we're drawn to people who bring out the side of us that needs to come out in a way. And I've always trusted that life will bring me the person that I meant to fall for. And I've trusted that I feel like I'll feel it when I see them. Versus if I create this checklist of like, he has to make this much money and drive this car and look like this and do this. It takes the magic out of it.

• 1:31:23Speaker 03

  And I'm not actually present with the person in front of me. And at least on a soul level, I don't know that I'll learn the most from the person on my checklist. You know, I don't know that I'll be able to dance on the ashes of who we once were together. If it's what my mind thinks, because at least I find whatever my mind thinks should happen is usually not what should happen.

• 1:31:41Jay Shetty?

  I agree.

• 1:31:42Speaker 03

  At all.

• 1:31:43Jay Shetty?

  That is, yeah.

• 1:31:44Speaker 03

  So I want to be surprised because love is such a greater force than me and it's so humbling. And yeah, I guess when I hear the high value man, high value woman, it automatically to me insinuates that you don't have value. Or you know what I mean? It it triggers the self esteem thing, at least that's how I feel when I hear it.

• 1:32:02Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 1:32:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:03Jay Shetty?

  I I love your take on it and I think I think my take is that you can't really judge value in that way because I I always give this example of like when I met Radhi, I was in debt and didn't have a job and didn't know what I was gonna do. And so if I was judged on my value of my net worth or any of those things, it would have been minus. But I was not judged, I was approached by Radhi based on my values, not my value. And that totally was a different take. And she invested in my values and those values are what constructs a healthy relationship today.

• 1:32:46Jay Shetty?

  I don't think whether we've had money or not had money, it actually affected our romantic connection. Or whether we had things or didn't have things, whether it affected our intimacy. Like that wasn't what had an impact. I always say to people like, how tall someone is, isn't gonna change whether you guys are having.

• 1:33:05Speaker 03

  It's also so much fun to grow with them.

• 1:33:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:33:07Speaker 03

  And to be like, I was there from the beginning. Like, that's so satisfying and cool in its own way. So when we're always constantly looking for like the finished product of someone, it's like, well, then where's that gritty growth that I love so much? Because at least that's what we have in our friendship.

• 1:33:23Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's what you said in the beginning.

• 1:33:25Speaker 03

  It's just like this gritty, like, I'm going to continue to like go with you on this journey, whichever way. You know, if you need to bury a dead body, let's go. Like, it's that energy.

• 1:33:35Speaker 02

  On Purpose Podcast. He's like, cut.

• 1:33:41Speaker 02

  We love each other out. No, but it's true. Like, I, I, I, even in the past five years, I'm like, this is incredible to see how much we've grown together. It's almost, it's exhilarating in its own way. So I, I do think too. And men also, I think, I want to talk a little bit about potential because I think women, women who run with the wolves, that incredible book, they were talking about how women, it's, it's part of our nature to see a man's potential and to truly like help lift them to get them there. And so, so many times I hear my friends, you know, embarrassed that they fell for their, for his potential. And then they felt guilty or bad that they were trying to push him in a direction that maybe he didn't want to go. And, and

• 1:34:21Speaker 02

  when I read that in the book, I realized, oh no, because the right man will be so excited that you see that path for them and will walk that path with you in a beautiful way. So it, there is truth within that, that natural ability that women have. It's, it's so beautiful. And I've seen that with my own relationship. Like, it is so fun to watch him grow and become this incredible man. It is, it's so much more satisfying than if I would have just gone on a date with this version of him now and met him now. It's our nature to, to, to, to feed that potential to something greater. And if he, if he's the right guy and he's ready for you, then that's where the growth and the beautiful like garden that you guys will create comes from. So it's really beautiful.

• 1:35:05Jay Shetty?

  I could listen to you both talk forever. Now we can on the Easy A Podcast. I'm so excited. I hope you're both gonna have loads of conversations with each other too, because I could just hear you, you two talk without any guests or any.

• 1:35:16Speaker 02

  It's been interesting being a host, like I will say so, because like, like watching you do this and how you're able to, you're so present, you're able to wrap around a story and you're able to take different questions and, you know, form them into new ones to take us on this new path. It's this incredible talent that you have. So I definitely have watched yours and studies yours a lot, but then also like adding our own little sauce into it has been so fun. And it's actually like way more intimidating to be interviewed as opposed to be the host. Like, I prefer being the host so much more. But it's really cool.

• 1:35:47Jay Shetty?

  I've started to realise that, you realise that because in the beginning when you're hosting, you're all so nervous and scared and then you realise the person in the seat has a way harder job.

• 1:35:54Speaker 02

  Way more tense.

• 1:35:55Jay Shetty?

  But no, you both are phenomenal. I want to end with the final five, which we always do at the end of every On Purpose interview, but we're going to change it up. We're going to take questions from the journal because I think that would be fun. And so the questions, but the hard part is the questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. And I'll probably allow you, I'll probably want you to expand as time goes on. So, question one, let's start with an easy one. Let's not start with a hard one.

• 1:36:21Speaker 02

  He keeps flipping.

• 1:36:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I've got a really good one there for later on.

• 1:36:25Speaker 02

  Oh no.

• 1:36:25Jay Shetty?

  But let's, we'll start with an easy one. What piece of advice would you give to a younger you?

• 1:36:32Speaker 02

  Your brain's just not fully formed. You're gonna be okay. Don't worry about it. Like, at 25, it'll calm down, smooth sailing, but just like, it's fine. You're good.

• 1:36:41Jay Shetty?

  I love it.

• 1:36:43Speaker 02

  Buckle up, baby. Enjoy the ride.

• 1:36:46Jay Shetty?

  Okay, great. If life stopped today, what would you regret not doing? I love that question.

• 1:36:53Speaker 02

  Surfing, spending more time with family. Need to be on the water more. Yeah. Honestly, nothing. Aww. Yeah.

• 1:37:03Jay Shetty?

  That's beautiful. That's an amazing place to be. Tell me about all the parts of yourself that you cringe at.

• 1:37:10Speaker 02

  My unfiltered thoughts, my intrusive thoughts, they just come out. I've been pretty good on this episode, but like. I love your intrusive thoughts. But they just become my personality and it come, I just, yeah, there's moments where I'm like, don't, don't. And it just comes out. So I guess, yeah, my intrusive thoughts are pretty cringy, especially when I just can't stop saying them out loud. I think it was being homeschooled. There's just no filter. And then also my mother was like, oh, adults? Oh no, they're just, they're like you but older. And I was like, oh. And then I never really got, you know, afraid and never called people Mr. And Mrs. And so there was never like this disconnection from me and my elders in a sense. So I just, there's no filter

• 1:37:52Speaker 02

  and never went to school. So I just will keep talking. So I'm gonna shut up now.

• 1:37:58Jay Shetty?

  This is all intrusive thoughts. I love it.

• 1:38:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:02Speaker 03

  I think I just cringe at being a walking bumper sticker. Like, as a poet, I'm just so trained to say.

• 1:38:07Speaker 02

  I can see her cringe when she's about to say a line that she said a hundred times.

• 1:38:12Speaker 03

  I can't stand it.

• 1:38:12Speaker 02

  It's such a good line, though. Say it.

• 1:38:15Speaker 03

  I think that's why I appreciate her. It's the balance.

• 1:38:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's nothing composed, and I'm too composed. And so somewhere, we'll become a person in the middle.

• 1:38:23Jay Shetty?

  I always say that. I'm like, I take life too seriously, and Ravi doesn't take life seriously at all.

• 1:38:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:28Jay Shetty?

  And it's the only way to balance it out.

• 1:38:30Speaker 03

  It's a similar dynamic.

• 1:38:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. I know what I'm doing every minute of the day, and Ravi doesn't. So, yeah. All right, question number four. List of things that you're running from.

• 1:38:40Speaker 02

  Okay. I just spit.

• 1:38:49Speaker 02

  Mortality, to get, like, really deep. I've been feeling like I've been meaning to face death in different types of ways. Maybe it's a plant medicine thing. Maybe, I don't know what it is, but I feel once I can have a more honest relationship with death, I'll be able to. Because now, I love my life so much, and I love who I am so much. So I'm like, I just really want to be in it so deeply. And I know that, like, fear of death and fear of losing it all is kind of ruining the presence for me a little bit. So, yeah.

• 1:39:25Jay Shetty?

  Thank you.

• 1:39:26Speaker 03

  I'm running from my gifts. I think I've hit a certain comfortable place in writing. But I want to see how far I can go and stretch that muscle. But it feels like that Marian Williamson quote of, "We're afraid of our power more than failure." I just butchered that terribly, but I'm afraid of that, of seeing how far I can go.

• 1:39:43Speaker 02

  What about you, Jay Shetty?

• 1:39:45Jay Shetty?

  What am I running from?

• 1:39:46Speaker 03

  Yeah. Oh, that's a great.

• 1:39:47Jay Shetty?

  Is that what you're saying? That's what you're saying, right? That question. It's such a great question. I literally can't wait to do this. Like, I'm really excited.

• 1:39:58Jay Shetty?

  What am I running from?

• 1:40:01Jay Shetty?

  I think I'm running from.

• 1:40:06Jay Shetty?

  I'm actually doing what I was talking about earlier. I'm running from a past self, an identity that no longer serves me, but I think I'm doing it not in the right way. So

• 1:40:20Jay Shetty?

  my history is important to me and it's powerful and it's so much the reason I am who I am today. And I think

• 1:40:27Jay Shetty?

  sometimes I'm trying to run away from my history because I'm so different today,

• 1:40:32Jay Shetty?

  externally and in so many other ways. But I don't think that's the right thing to do. So I'd say that's what I'm running from. If that makes sense at all.

• 1:40:40Speaker 02

  It does. It does.

• 1:40:41Jay Shetty?

  All right, and fifth and final question. What are you pretending not to know right now?

• 1:40:45Speaker 02

  That's the question that I wanted him to... Oh, is it? Yeah, remember? Yeah, what did Koot say?

• 1:40:51Speaker 03

  Our friend Koot Black's an ex of Seth and workshop.

• 1:40:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:40:56Jay Shetty?

  I interviewed Koot years ago.

• 1:40:58Speaker 02

  Oh, he's so powerful. He's great. He's, oh my God.

• 1:41:01Speaker 03

  He's larger than life.

• 1:41:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh my gosh. What am I pretending not to know right now? Oh, no. Oh, no, that's... I was really hoping he wasn't gonna ask that question, but I wanted to ask him that question and now we're in.

• 1:41:13Jay Shetty?

  I'll answer it too.

• 1:41:13Speaker 02

  Okay, okay.

• 1:41:14Jay Shetty?

  I'm having an answer over you guys.

• 1:41:17Speaker 02

  I think I do feel a little bit of fear of success with the podcast because we had this conversation with Koot. There's a difference between

• 1:41:30Speaker 02

  sharing who you are and exposing who you are. And I always got nervous with that because with social media, it's everyone's just gonna use any part of their life to gain attraction. And I really wanna maintain a sense of privacy while also sharing deeply who I am. I feel you do a really good job about that.

• 1:41:49Speaker 02

  So I think I'm

• 1:41:52Speaker 02

  I'm afraid of that line being crossed with now that we're in this like more slow form contact. Because... This is the only type of content on the internet that I feel actually shows all versions of someone. And that's why me and Ally were so excited to get into it. But there's definitely a huge fear of it right now that I'll expose myself in some way. Or feel like I hate those vulnerability hangovers. My god, doesn't feel good. Oh, it doesn't feel good.

• 1:42:19Jay Shetty?

  So real.

• 1:42:20Speaker 02

  So, yeah. What about you?

• 1:42:22Speaker 03

  I actually think it's what you said earlier about the inner peace, external chaos.

• 1:42:28Speaker 03

  I find what brings me inner peace, I notice rocks the boat of people I love most a lot of the time. And so I really, really struggle with not wanting to hurt people and then suffocating a part of myself. And I think there's a balance between the two of freedom and security. But I think it's pretending not to know when something's good for me, but I know it's gonna be something that feels like upheaval inside. Yeah.

• 1:42:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Well, thank you, guys. It's going deep.

• 1:42:56Speaker 02

  Your turn.

• 1:42:56Jay Shetty?

  I like it. Yeah, I'll answer it too. What are you pretending not to know right now? I'd say it's, I feel that there's a larger than life, bigger service that I'm meant to walk into. But I feel like the immediate keeps taking my attention. And so I'm pretending not to know that there's this bigger thing that will be harder work. That will be deeper work. Yeah, that, that is asking me to pick up the call. But it's almost like you're avoiding the call because there's all this immediate stuff that is good and it's great and it's helping and it is service based as well. But it's, you know, there's more and you're not picking up the call.

• 1:43:37Speaker 02

  So. Oh, that's a good, that's, that's honest.

• 1:43:39Jay Shetty?

  What I love about every, everything I've said to you guys and even just sitting and do this activity with you. I love that those beautiful, simple, well crafted questions made me say things that I probably haven't said out loud to anyone in years, maybe. So, you know, the power of the questions you've curated and chosen are really special. And I'm so excited for people to dive into it. I'm honestly, seeing with you both today, I can honestly say that I hope that you come back to teach me some more. And, uh, and offline as well. I mean it, I, I actually genuinely mean that. I'm not just saying that. I, I really hope you'll come back offline to teach me some more. I'm gonna reach out to both of you.

• 1:44:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:21Jay Shetty?

  I can't wait for people to listen to Easy A. I'm so excited for people to. Use the Becoming a Warrior journals and I'm rooting for you guys and forever in your corner and anywhere that I can be and so grateful that you came on on purpose.

• 1:44:37Speaker 02

  You're the best ever. Thank you so much. You've supported me for years and I just, I feel so much gratitude when I think of you and Roddy and like truly you've, you guys kind of like took me under your wing. So I really, really appreciate it and thank you for welcoming Ally on.

• 1:44:50Jay Shetty?

  Of course.

• 1:44:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, thank you. You really create such a beautiful, safe space where it elicits honesty in a way that's not invasive.

• 1:44:58Speaker 02

  But like calm honesty. It doesn't feel.

• 1:45:01Speaker 03

  It's like supportive and loving.

• 1:45:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:03Jay Shetty?

  Thank you. It means the world to me. Did I not ask you anything that you wanted to share or something that was on your heart and mind that you really wanna share with the community right now? If there's anything, please feel free. It's an open, open floor.

• 1:45:15Speaker 02

  I just think the, the, the box conversation has just been so relevant in my life in the last year and it always just comes back to this idea of giving the world, us individuals, the grace of change because it's truly what we need and that's why me and Ally have such a close connection because we've given each other the gate, the grace of change and we need that more than ever in this world.

• 1:45:39Jay Shetty?

  I fully agree. Ally, any?

• 1:45:42Speaker 03

  What she said.

• 1:45:43Jay Shetty?

  I love it. Everyone who's been listening or watching, wherever you are, whether you're walking your dog, you're at home, you're on the way to work, on the way back from work, you're at the gym, wherever you are, please make sure that you tag all three of us, tag Ally, tag Alexis, tag myself. Let us know what stood out to you, what resonated with you. Remember, I want you to go listen to this with a friend to deepen your friendship, to remove envy from your connections and of course, start removing the boxes, start trying to live in bigger boxes and allow ourselves to give us permission to be the fullest three sixty degree version of ourselves. So, big thank you to Alexis, big thank you to Ally and uh, thank you for listening to On Purpose, everyone. Thank you so much.

• 1:46:23Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:46:24Jay Shetty?

  Thank you. If you loved this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr. Gabor Mate on understanding your trauma and how to heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.

• 1:46:36Speaker 08

  Everything in nature grows only where it's vulnerable. So a tree doesn't grow where it's hard and thick, does it? It grows where it's soft and green and vulnerable.

• 1:46:44Speaker 09

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, theHouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:47:13Speaker 04

  Mr. President, my company foreme of the explosion on our rig.

• 1:47:17Speaker 05

  On October 2nd.

• 1:47:18Speaker 04

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 1:47:23Speaker 05

  Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 1:47:30Speaker 06

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You start, you freeze in there, that's what.

• 1:47:34Speaker 05

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:47:37Speaker 06

  I'm not the first nanny.

• 1:47:38Speaker 05

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.