Episode 600: When Tracking Your Health Starts Hurting Your Health

Wellness has become a massive business, and there's always something new promising to help us live longer, perform better, or finally optimize our health. But with more products, technology, and expensive longevity programs than ever, it's getting harder to separate what actually moves the needle from what's simply being sold to us. I dive deeper into this in today's episode of Habits & Hustle, to talk about where wellness is headed, what we've overcomplicated, and where we think the biggest opportunities for innovation actually are. We also get into wearables and wellness data, the rise of social fitness, why people are craving real-world community again, and how AI could make personalized health and longevity more accessible without the massive price tag. What's Discussed: (07:15) Whether we've optimized wellness to the point of insanity. (09:48) How too much health data can create more stress than it solves. (10:13) Why your wearable can change how you feel about your own body. (16:40) Where wellness and longevity still need more innovation. (20:03) Why social fitness and wellness communities are becoming more popular. (23:22) What makes fitness communities turn into cultural movements. (35:29) Why getting healthy shouldn't require spending thousands of dollars. (40:00) How AI could make personalized health and longevity more accessible. Thank You to Our Sponsors! Magic Mind: Head over to magicmind.com/jen http://www.magicmind.com/jen and use code JEN at checkout. Momentous: Ready to try supplements that actually do what they claim? Head to livemomentous.com http://livemomentous.com and use code JEN for 35% off your first subscription. Kion: Visit getkion.com/habits http://getkion.com/habits for 20% off. Tru Niagen®: For supplements that are rigorously tested, third-party verified, and actually deliver what's on the label, head to truniagen.com http://truniagen.com AirDoctor: Head to AirDoctorPro.com http://airdoctorpro.com and use promo code HUSTLE to get $250 off select AirDoctor air purifiers, including the 3500, 4000, and 5500 models. Plus, you'll receive a free 3 year warranty, an $84 value, and AirDoctor's 30-day money back guarantee. Find more from Jen Cohen: Website: jennifercohen.com https://jennifercohen.com Instagram: @therealjencohen http://instagram.com/therealjencohen Books: jennifercohen.com/books https://jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagements https://jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagements Find more from Hamet Watt: LinkedIn: Hamet Watt https://www.linkedin.com/in/hametwatt/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

• 0:06Jen Cohen?

  Oh, hey, Tony. Thanks for the intro. I'm Jennifer Cohen, and this is your weekly bonus episode of Habits and Hustle, where I share my honest take on the habits, strategies, and mindset shifts that help you build confidence, take action, and create a healthier, more successful life. If you're ready to think bigger and live bolder, this is for you. Welcome to Habits and Hustle.

• 0:31Jen Cohen?

  We're tracking everything and spending more than ever trying to be healthier. But at some point, all that optimization can create more stress than it solves. I dive deeper into this in today's episode to talk about where wellness is headed, what's become overcomplicated, and what and where we think the biggest opportunities to innovation actually are. I also talk about the rise of social fitness, why people are craving real-world community again, and how AI can make personalized health, fitness, and longevity more accessible to everyone. The future of wellness is changing fast, and some of the biggest opportunities may come from making the basics simpler, smarter, and easier to access. So let's dive in.

• 1:23Jen Cohen?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to another solo episode of Habits and Hustle with your host, me, Jennifer Cohen. And today I am joined with my dear friend, Hamet Watt, who is the founder of Shared Ventures. Share Ventures? He looked at me. I said, "shared." I meant "share" ventures. He is obviously an investor, and he is an entrepreneur. And what else are you, Hamet?

• 1:52Speaker 02

  A dad, a husband.

• 1:55Jen Cohen?

  A dad and a husband. And he's had a lot of tremendous success in the world of high-performance. What else?

• 2:06Speaker 02

  Innovation and frontier technology is what we get most excited about.

• 2:09Jen Cohen?

  Basically, technology, AI, now AI. Now he has a human performance lab that's being funded by Amazon and Google. So, you know, he's doing okay for himself.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're trying.

• 2:23Jen Cohen?

  Yeah. Share Ventures. I don't know why I said "shared." I knew it was "share." So I apologize.

• 2:29Speaker 02

  It's okay.

• 2:29Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, I don't think you... You won't hold it against me.

• 2:32Speaker 02

  I won't hold it against you.

• 2:33Jen Cohen?

  Okay, we're gonna do some hot takes today. And Hamet's been actually a wonderful foil, because we... I think I've said this before, but we've known each other a while. So he's a good person to kind of volleyball back and forth, because he's got a perspective, an opinion, and he's easygoing. So it works.

• 2:53Speaker 02

  I gotta be honest, though. Do you know when you say "foil," I think of first outside, inside last. Do you remember that rule? Did they have that in Canada?

• 3:01Jen Cohen?

  No.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  Don't worry about it. It's like a grammar. I don't even remember what it is. It was something in math.

• 3:05Jen Cohen?

  Don't worry about it.

• 3:08Speaker 02

  But I learn new sayings from you all the time.

• 3:10Jen Cohen?

  Like the cat's ass.

• 3:11Speaker 02

  With the cat's ass.

• 3:12Jen Cohen?

  Yeah. Have you guys ever heard of the saying, "the cat's ass"? I mean, I say it all the time.

• 3:17Speaker 02

  I've never heard it. Shame on me. Okay.

• 3:21Jen Cohen?

  I've never used bee's knees until... I still don't, by the way.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  I've never used... I don't use bee's knees, but I know what it means. But I've never heard of cat's ass.

• 3:30Jen Cohen?

  Really?

• 3:30Speaker 02

  Never.

• 3:31Jen Cohen?

  Give me another saying that's like a big one here in the US.

• 3:36Speaker 02

  As it relates to what? Like, I mean, there's so many sayings.

• 3:38Jen Cohen?

  In general, like, I mean, just...

• 3:39Speaker 02

  Infinite number of sayings.

• 3:40Jen Cohen?

  Like what you say. What's one of your sayings?

• 3:42Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 3:43Jen Cohen?

  I say rigmarole a lot.

• 3:44Speaker 02

  Rigmarole, okay. That's a very granny-type of term.

• 3:47Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, well, I am a granny at this. I feel like a granny these days. Jesus. So tell me, you don't have one that you can think of, like, off the cuff?

• 3:54Speaker 02

  No, not that's crazy. I learn stuff from my son all the time.

• 3:58Jen Cohen?

  Okay, like, riz?

• 3:59Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:00Jen Cohen?

  Bro?

• 4:01Speaker 02

  Bro. Everything is a version of bro and bruh.

• 4:04Jen Cohen?

  Everything is bruh and bro. My 11-year-old daughter says to me, she calls me "bro." I'm like, "I'm not your bro." Okay? I'm not your bro. Like, my 13-year-old calls me "bro." Like, I think everything now, and everybody's a "bro."

• 4:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. Have you seen that t-shirt? My wife has one. It says, "Ma, Mama, Mommy, Momma, Bruh."

• 4:27Jen Cohen?

  No.

• 4:27Speaker 02

  And that's like the trajectory.

• 4:30Jen Cohen?

  The trajectory. That is hilarious. That is really funny. I should get that t-shirt. Where'd you get that from?

• 4:35Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 4:36Jen Cohen?

  That's really funny. That's really funny. Okay, I want to ask you a question. First hot take of the day. Ready? Yeah?

• 4:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:44Jen Cohen?

  Okay. How do you think we've optimized wellness to the point of insanity?

• 4:48Speaker 02

  Hmm, that's a great question. I don't think so. I think there's still a lot more opportunity for us to learn. I feel like I learn, you know, every week I'm learning something new, right? Don't you?

• 4:59Jen Cohen?

  Well, do you think we really need, like, 15 supplements, six wearables, cold plunges, $22 smoothies?

• 5:08Speaker 02

  28 if you go to Air One.

• 5:09Jen Cohen?

  Exactly.

• 5:10Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 5:11Jen Cohen?

  Air One. I mean, it's like $28 smoothies. You can have a frickin' filet mignon for that price at this point. Red light, I mean, these glucose monitor. Like, I mean, at what point is enough enough?

• 5:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's interesting, because I'm a big fan, as I know you are, in just doing everything in our power to make ourselves feel better, perform better, be better friends, be better lovers, be better workers, be better whatever, be better founders, be better investors. So I'm a big believer in that. But I do think there can be... We can get two in our head around some of these things, too. So I think it goes to a point of excess when all of a sudden you're doing so much calculus just to show up and just to be a normal person.

• 5:53Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, that's my point. Like, everything now is about, like, you know, data points, as opposed to just doing it because you like to do it.

• 6:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:01Jen Cohen?

  Or because, like, it's good for you. Like, now everything has to be measured, measured, measured. Like, it's taken, like, not just the fun out of it, but it's making it actually more work. And it's more stress than it has to be. Like, all of this is to... Life is so ironic, right? You're supposed to do all these things to eliminate your stress levels.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  And you get more.

• 6:24Jen Cohen?

  And then you get more, right? Like, I just find it to be... When's enough enough? Like, I just don't... You know, I used to wear all the wearables. I do wear this Oura ring, but I forget to check it all the time. And I forget to charge it half the time.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:39Jen Cohen?

  Because, like, to me, it's more important to create these habits that we do daily, because it's our lifestyle, versus checking everything. And like, if that helps you be accountable, then I think that's good.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 6:55Jen Cohen?

  But we want to get to a place where we are just doing it because we're doing it, because it's part of who we are. Like, you brush your teeth, you exercise, you know, you eat better, you eat more... You know what I mean?

• 7:05Speaker 02

  I will say this. Yes, I totally agree with you. Too much data, information overload, can cause more stress than it's worth. You and I were talking about sleep. I'm just trying to dial in and figure out my sleep. I'm having issues with it. I realized the more I was, like, looking at that data before I was going to bed, that was just keeping me up longer. So like, time and place.

• 7:23Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  I was like, okay, I'm not gonna, like, obsess over all this sleep data before I'm trying to go to bed. Because ironically, it's just gonna stress me out, and I'm not gonna sleep.

• 7:32Jen Cohen?

  Yeah. You know, I saw something recently, or heard someone recently talk about how they woke up, they thought they had the greatest night's sleep. They're like, "Oh, my God, I had the best night's sleep." So they were gonna, like, go for this, like, long run and do this great workout. And then they looked at their whoop, and it was... And the whoop said they didn't recover as well, and that their heart rate was elevated during their... Whatever it was. And they modified their day and workout based on what that whoop said versus just how they felt. I'm like, "Well, if you felt good, why didn't you just do it how you felt?"

• 8:04Speaker 02

  Just roll with it.

• 8:05Jen Cohen?

  Like, maybe that whoop was wrong.

• 8:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:07Jen Cohen?

  Is that possible?

• 8:08Speaker 02

  Exactly. And we all know what the placebo effect can do.

• 8:10Jen Cohen?

  Yes, exactly. And also, technology can be wrong, too.

• 8:14Speaker 02

  Yes, it can. But we're both in this business. We start companies, and we invest in companies that are in this business. So how do you... To me, it's like, I believe I want as many data points as I can get when I want them. I don't want that to be... I don't want it to be something that I necessarily live my life by, but I know that I have the data. I know that I have access to it. I like that. Does that make sense?

• 8:36Jen Cohen?

  Yes, I'm interested. I'm super, obviously, I'm super interested in longevity. I'm super interested in health. I'm obsessed with, like, fitness and all the things like that. That's where, like, my wheelhouse is. But certain things, like, you know, these measurable, you know, they're not as interesting to me anymore. Like, that's not where I play. You know, like, I feel like...

• 9:00Speaker 02

  You mean another sensor?

• 9:01Jen Cohen?

  Like, another sensor, another, like, way to, like, track. Like, I think if you track your steps.

• 9:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:07Jen Cohen?

  Right? Maybe track your macros, track your steps. I think, you know, I'm not even a big fan of tracking my sleep anymore for the same reason. Like, it gives you... It gives me anxiety, and I know I'm not sleeping well. I don't need a device to tell me, really.

• 9:21Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 9:22Jen Cohen?

  You know?

• 9:23Speaker 02

  I get it. I will say this. Because I'm learning so much more... We're all learning so much all the time. I'm not closed off. Like, I will start another company that involves a sensor, perhaps, or fund a company that does that. If it's doing something novel, like, if there's something novel, like, I'm looking at something in the protein space.

• 9:42Jen Cohen?

  Tell me what you're looking at.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  Well, you know the whole journey with Fino. So we got very excited about the oral health space.

• 9:50Jen Cohen?

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  And this is an example of something that I thought I knew a lot about, which is just overall health and the connection between other areas and overall health. What I didn't realize was how connected oral health is to systemic health. Really great studies connecting oral health to neurodegenerative disease or heart disease. And the more I dug into that, the more I realized there was a lot I could still learn. And there was a lot of data in the mouth that could help us understand what's happening with our overall health. So we're building all sorts of novel ways to learn about your overall health through your mouth, through a toothbrush. The company's called Fino. You know about it.

• 10:26Jen Cohen?

  A hundred percent. And it's crushing, by the way. This is not even an ad for Fino.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I'm not gonna plug.

• 10:31Jen Cohen?

  But it's true. First of all, it is killing it. So whatever you're doing, the marketing around it or how you're doing it.

• 10:37Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 10:38Jen Cohen?

  I don't know what you guys are doing, but it's... I see it literally everywhere.

• 10:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, it's the first whole-mouth... There are other whole-mouth toothbrushes, but it's the first truly smart brush. And I don't know if you saw Dyson announced they're doing a smart brush or toothbrush.

• 10:51Jen Cohen?

  They are?

• 10:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's kind of...

• 10:53Jen Cohen?

  Are they gonna go head-to-head with you?

• 10:54Speaker 02

  In some ways, it's still

• 10:55Jen Cohen?

  Mouth to mouth?

• 10:56Speaker 02

  Mouth to mouth. Oh, I might have to borrow that.

• 11:00Jen Cohen?

  See, I'm good like that.

• 11:02Speaker 02

  So theirs is a stick brush. We think it has to be a whole mouth brush.

• 11:06Jen Cohen?

  Well, then it's not gonna go mouth to mouth because yours looks like a mouth guard.

• 11:10Speaker 02

  It looks like we, we, we found out when we did the research on why people's oral health is bad. Forty seven percent of the population has periodontal disease. That's gum disease. That's an F. That's not good. That's not okay.

• 11:23Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 11:24Speaker 02

  We saw all kinds of bad stuff. The reason for that is because of time and technique. People don't brush all of their teeth. And they don't brush for long enough. And a stick is not gonna solve that. So we had to build it as a whole mouth toothbrush. That's the whole story behind it.

• 11:38Jen Cohen?

  Wow. Okay, so how much more effective is that mouth guardy looking thing versus the regular looking?

• 11:46Speaker 02

  We did a clinical trial that is not, that is, we've gotten the results back, which are incredibly positive, but we can't talk to specifics yet because it hasn't gone through all the right channels to be published. But we think it's significantly more effective than what most people, the way most people brush their teeth with the traditional electronic toothbrush.

• 12:06Jen Cohen?

  Wow, okay.

• 12:07Speaker 02

  But I didn't mean to plug that.

• 12:08Jen Cohen?

  No, no, but now I'm just curious. Like, you don't, you can't talk about the percentage? Um, honestly, I don't remember because there's so many different variables. We, we went, the benchmark was a, the number one selling electronic toothbrush.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  And there are all sorts of different measures for effectiveness, including, we actually, we, ours was a twenty second toothbrush. Ours takes twenty seconds to cover all your teeth versus the standard two minute. And we outperformed that brush.

• 12:40Jen Cohen?

  Really?

• 12:40Speaker 02

  Yes. So twenty seconds as compared to two minutes, outperformed.

• 12:45Jen Cohen?

  So the oral, I mean, I've heard, people have been talking about oral health for a long time.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:50Jen Cohen?

  About where it basically could start in your mouth. Because like, what happens if you don't have good oral health, though?

• 12:56Speaker 02

  Well, if you have poor oral health, you, you know, generate plaque and that plaque.

• 13:01Jen Cohen?

  Well, no, I don't mean like, I don't mean that way. Gingeritis.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:04Jen Cohen?

  But where, how was it systemic to the rest of your overall health of your body?

• 13:08Speaker 02

  Well, the, the research, which is relatively new research, again, this goes back to what I think, the point where you were, your initial question, which is, what are we learning today?

• 13:16Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 13:16Speaker 02

  Is it too much information? You might say, hey, getting data on your mouth, that's too much information. Turns out it's not.

• 13:22Jen Cohen?

  No.

• 13:22Speaker 02

  Turns out you can get insight that helps you on your overall health. And so it's just basically looking at inflammation and gum disease, and how that leads towards all these downstream issues. So if you take better care of your oral health, you're actually taking better care of your overall health and ultimately your longevity.

• 13:38Jen Cohen?

  That's so interesting, actually. So what else could, like, so let me ask you a question, another question. What else besides wearables would you say is tired and that we can, maybe other areas that you think are in the longevity space that we're just not really?

• 13:54Speaker 02

  I would like to see more innovation in the world of supplementation. I see a lot of derivative stuff in supplements. And there are a lot of great supplement companies out there, but many of them.

• 14:04Jen Cohen?

  More, more supplements, you think?

• 14:06Speaker 02

  Well, I just think that different ones, right? I think there need to be.

• 14:09Jen Cohen?

  In what way? Like, different, like?

• 14:11Speaker 02

  I think there should be innovation, more research. I think this is the kind of thing we're looking at. Supplements are gonna be part of our lives.

• 14:17Jen Cohen?

  And it's a massive part, but it should be supplemental.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  Should be, should be. But we know that we're not getting all the nutrients out of our food that we need. And we know that there's, there's going to be much more innovation that's gonna happen because AI is now playing a role in the discovery of new, new compounds that could help us both on the pharmaceutical side and on the wellness side. But I just see a lot of derivative stuff. I don't see as much novel, I don't see as much novel stuff coming out on that. So that would be kind of interesting.

• 14:45Jen Cohen?

  Like, give me an example.

• 14:47Speaker 02

  I don't know. Is there a new way that we could make sure we've got better protein absorption, as an example? I don't know.

• 14:52Jen Cohen?

  Do you take aminos?

• 14:53Speaker 02

  Some, yeah.

• 14:55Jen Cohen?

  Not some. Do you take, like, it's very important to take the right ones.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm trying to think what aminos I do take.

• 15:00Jen Cohen?

  I'm surprised that I haven't.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I take some brain aminos.

• 15:04Jen Cohen?

  No, no, no, no, no, no, like.

• 15:05Speaker 02

  Phosphatoyl stearine, I'm probably.

• 15:07Jen Cohen?

  No, you can take, I'm gonna give you some. I thought you'd take the Keon ones, like, like me.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  Which, oh, that has like a blend of a bunch of different aminos?

• 15:14Jen Cohen?

  No, it's nine. So basically, if you're gonna be taking aminos, you should be taking the nine essential amino acids.

• 15:20Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 15:21Jen Cohen?

  Right? And this one has leucine. So.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  I take leucine separately.

• 15:24Jen Cohen?

  Well, this one has leucine.

• 15:26Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 15:26Jen Cohen?

  So to me, like, I don't believe in taking.

• 15:29Speaker 02

  Good for eyesight, right?

• 15:30Jen Cohen?

  It's great. First of all, these, this is like top of the line. I think that, you know, there's some on the market that are, that are, that kind of do a lot, a lot of great marketing, but they have proprietary blends. And when I say, see the word proprietary, I, and they don't want to tell you. You don't know what the hell, you don't know what they're, what's in there. I, I like transparency.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:51Jen Cohen?

  And so aminos, I think for people our age, it's really important because this, it's, I think it's just great for our body composition.

• 15:58Speaker 02

  Our age, by the way, I'm older than you.

• 15:59Jen Cohen?

  Oh, thank God. I know you are. A lot of, he said it, a lot older. But I think it's good for body composition. And I think it's really good for like maintaining lean muscle.

• 16:10Speaker 02

  Well, what would you like to see more of in the world of wellness?

• 16:12Jen Cohen?

  Okay, well, I'll tell you what I don't want to, that's why I'm bringing this up, is that I think that our bodies, you should be eating your nutrients and then you should be supplementing on things that can help you and with areas that you are deficient in and what can help, help enhance you. Like creatine's a good one. Love creatine, too. Aminos, omegas. I don't think we need to be taking ninety seven thousand supplements.

• 16:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:37Jen Cohen?

  I don't, like, when we were, our ancestors weren't taking that.

• 16:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, but our ancestors had more nutrients in their food, too.

• 16:43Jen Cohen?

  Okay, right, right. So then, that's, that's a good point. I'm saying, so like, but what you're deficient in, I think what happens a lot of times is people are taking things because it's popular, not because they need it. I think innovation, I mean, like, I, I think that it keeps, it keeps on changing, like, I, the wearables I think are tired. I don't, I love the idea of, and what's becoming a big, I think a big movement now is this, this idea of wellness and social being.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  Love it.

• 17:13Jen Cohen?

  Integrating, integrated.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 17:15Jen Cohen?

  Right? Because of the loneliness factor we have, the isolation factor. I think doing something positive for yourself and a shared experience.

• 17:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 17:23Jen Cohen?

  With other people. Like, High Rocks just got bought.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  I saw that.

• 17:28Jen Cohen?

  You saw that?

• 17:28Speaker 02

  What was the number?

• 17:29Jen Cohen?

  For a billion dollars.

• 17:30Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 17:30Jen Cohen?

  A billion dollars.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  You know how much revenue they were doing?

• 17:32Jen Cohen?

  How much?

• 17:33Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 17:33Jen Cohen?

  Oh, I don't know. I, you and I were talking about High Rocks for a long time already, right? Because they've just done, they've done such a good job. They did everything right, in my opinion.

• 17:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 17:43Jen Cohen?

  They were able to build such a solid community using, like, like, exercise, fitness.

• 17:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:51Jen Cohen?

  Racing as the, the vehicle to get people to come together.

• 17:56Speaker 02

  What's an opportunity for innovation in that space? Because I love the experiential fitness space. And High Rocks is a great example of a company that can get to some level of scale at least. But what's an even bigger idea, or perhaps a, a very novel approach to something that's an experience?

• 18:16Jen Cohen?

  Well, I think that there's a lot of copycats and me too brands and people who are doing what they're doing, just not as well. They're not as popular. They don't have the, the right, they're not on brand as well. Their branding isn't sharp enough. So there are, I, I believe there's a lot of these other hybrid, like races that are social communities.

• 18:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 18:40Jen Cohen?

  That are like on the periphery. They just haven't popped yet. So I don't think that's innovative.

• 18:46Speaker 02

  What's on the periphery that's interesting that we should maybe take a look at?

• 18:49Jen Cohen?

  I think what, I, I think what we should, I think what the opportunity could be is doing some kind of a High Rocks that is, the barrier to entry isn't as intimidating.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 19:00Jen Cohen?

  Because a lot of times I think people have this misconception, and I think it could be a misconception, because I think with High Rocks, you have the different levels. You have the elite, but you also have open, you have like partners, you have all these things. And you are really just competing against yourself, right? Like, you can, like, okay, so if your time is, whatever it is. But because the allure, the allure is, it looks like so many, you're so fit going, a lot of people who aren't as fit, aren't participating. So maybe the opportunity is to kind of create something that is much more, feels much more available and less intimidating to someone who isn't as fit yet.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'm I'm just thinking of what is that hook? That is interesting and novel, but yet still has mass appeal. Where people are like, you know, the running clubs, for example.

• 19:55Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, those are really, well, that's become really popular.

• 19:58Speaker 02

  It's become big, but we know why.

• 19:59Jen Cohen?

  Well, because people, A, people aren't drinking as much and they're doing these like wellness. But also people are going to these places. It's like, by the way, like, let's not be confused. High Rocks is an all like, they're popular because girls want to go and see like the hot guys and guys want to go see the hot girls. And they've really did a good job of making the brand super sexy. And like, really kind of there's a coolness factor.

• 20:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:23Jen Cohen?

  I think the other like brands that are the me too ones are like, are like, are the ones that are on the periphery. Just don't have that same allure and appeal.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  So that to me highlights the innovation opportunity.

• 20:36Jen Cohen?

  Yes.

• 20:36Speaker 02

  To figure out how you can develop a new format that is mass appeal in terms of the broad spectrum of skills that you, you know, of experience. That still has that core anchor of attracting males and females. But like that, that still has something that feels fresh and new. And I think there's an opportunity for us to think about what might fill that gap. Because all of this AI stuff, all of this stuff that's, you know, pulling us away from each other. I think we're starting to see a rebound effect. We're starting to see people go into gyms and do these kind of experiential fitness things like running clubs and go into malls. And so I think there's an opportunity in that, in that area.

• 21:18Jen Cohen?

  I know what you and I have said this for a long time. Now it's about like doing something about it, right?

• 21:23Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I think it's, it's about, to me, it's about figuring out what is that innovation and really thinking through like, what, what could work and start to try some things and experiment and see what would resonate. Maybe your audience would have some ideas on that, that they, they, maybe your audience that wish there was someone that did X.

• 21:38Jen Cohen?

  If you have an idea, let us know. But I think that you can switch like, so how it works, like there's, you know, you have DECA, that's part of Spartan. You have another one called, I don't remember the other one. There's a few other ones. Some of like, so like, for example, some have less running than others.

• 21:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:55Jen Cohen?

  The stations are different, like High Rocks has these stations. DECA has different stations. This one has different stations, like you could tweak the workout. You know what? High Rocks is kind of like the new CrossFit type of vibe, right? Like, it's kind of like become like the movement.

• 22:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:13Jen Cohen?

  So the question, because what you're asking is like, okay, what's the next movement?

• 22:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I, I go to things like, I think back on the early days of even platforms like SoulCycle, and there was another one in New York that was really going after this. I, I, I, I call it psycho fitness. That's not the right term, but it's like psychological fitness, like where you're going to that SoulCycle because you're so inspired and you're dealing with other parts of your life through fitness.

• 22:40Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, of course, that's the whole purpose.

• 22:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I feel like there's something intentional about that.

• 22:45Jen Cohen?

  That's a good point.

• 22:46Speaker 02

  Quite interesting.

• 22:47Jen Cohen?

  So I think that's also a good, a big element of why people do like the High Rocks, right? Because they're, they're, they're, A, they, it's, it's a, it's a sense of accomplishment, right? Like, oh, I did it. It is that it's like, it's, it's, it's helping them like work through something else.

• 23:04Speaker 02

  Could something on the nose or slightly more on the nose be interesting? What I mean by on the nose is the thing I'm thinking about in New York, which was a small boutique, but it, it got some traction. Was almost like it was a therapist giving the class. Affirmations, all sorts of these, these things that kind of felt a little woo woo. But people were going very nuts over it because it felt like it was as much a therapy session as it was a workout and maybe even more of a therapy session than a workout.

• 23:34Jen Cohen?

  What was, you don't remember the name?

• 23:36Speaker 02

  I don't remember the name, but I know the spirit of it was very similar to what SoulCycle was doing at one point. Which was very much about, you know, tapping, the instructors very much tapping into the social, it's almost like church.

• 23:48Jen Cohen?

  And what was it called?

• 23:49Speaker 02

  I, you know, what, what it's called doesn't matter because I think it's, it's more the spirit, which is, is there something that goes after the psychological health in a more direct way alongside of the physical fitness? So it's almost, again, it's analogous to church in some ways. You go to church because you want to get a church or synagogue or mosque or whatever.

• 24:12Jen Cohen?

  That's what they, they've been talking about that. It is analogous to that.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  Yes, but merging that with a fitness experience so that it's a bit, it's, it's a bit more relevant for a broader community, like you're killing two birds with one stone. I know that sounds terrible, but you know what I mean?

• 24:26Jen Cohen?

  I like that. We should take, we should take this offline and talk about it and we should do something, we should, we should kind of like brainstorm around that.

• 24:33Speaker 02

  I think we should.

• 24:33Jen Cohen?

  Because I know you and I have been like dancing around this whole thing for a while already and yet nothing has been done. So, and now they just sold for a billion dollars, you know? So I'm just saying, maybe it's time for us to get off our, you know.

• 24:48Speaker 02

  Not like we're doing anything.

• 24:49Jen Cohen?

  No, I know, not like we're doing anything at all, right?

• 24:58Jen Cohen?

  Let me take a quick break to tell you about something that has genuinely changed how I perform throughout the day. For years, I just assumed that my mental sharpness had a ceiling. That by mid afternoon, I was running on fumes, slower to think, harder to focus, and even a little more irritable than I wanted to be. And I never really thought that a supplement was going to change that, but I was wrong. Since I started taking Magic Mind every morning, I think more clearly, I focus longer. And I'm much more productive in the afternoon than I used to be. And that actually surprised me. Magic Mind is this daily two ounce shot that gives you a sharper mind and sustained energy. It's built with clinically backed ingredients like lion's mane, ashwagandha, turmeric, matcha.

• 25:42Jen Cohen?

  Developed over 10 years of research. This formula is nano encapsulated, meaning that your body absorbs the active ingredients five times more effectively than pills and powders. And every batch is third party tested for purity and potency. So if you order today, you get 50% off your first order at magicmind.com. You can try risk free for a hundred days and get a full refund if you're not satisfied. No questions asked. So that guarantee tells you everything that you need to know of how confident they are. You can also find Magic Mind in stores near you through their store like locator on Magic Mind. And I was a little skeptical too, but now I notice when I don't take it.

• 26:25Jen Cohen?

  And that's the only proof I need. So don't forget to check out magicmind.com to find out the stores near you and get 50% off your first order. At of course, magicmind.com.

• 26:44Jen Cohen?

  Okay, so let's move on a little bit, okay? So we talk about the wellness culture. Let me, hold on, I had another question for you, but now I can't find it. Hold on a minute, just give me a second.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  I think there's an interesting thing where we just talk about the areas where we see a need. And where we do a little bit of brainstorming and a little bit of community building. If we find out, for example, there are a lot of people.

• 27:07Jen Cohen?

  Are you talking about this idea still?

• 27:09Speaker 02

  Not this idea, any, we can go through, we can go through several.

• 27:11Jen Cohen?

  Oh, right, now you're talking about it?

• 27:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:13Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, we could do that, listen. This, the world is our oyster right now, right? So, um.

• 27:19Speaker 02

  I call it community first company building. We've started a company, we, we've started building a community for a company before we even built a company. To see if anyone gave a shit. No one gives a shit, nothing happens. If people start saying, yeah, tell me about this psycho fitness thing, I'd be going to that. Can we do a little pop up? Now you do a little experiment, do a little experiment, people come in, you see pupils dilating, you see them getting excited. Oh shit, oh, what would a brand look like? Now all of a sudden you have a bit of a community that you could start to test stuff with. And this is how we build companies.

• 27:49Jen Cohen?

  Okay, so are you saying that you want to try a couple, a few different iterations of this and see what sticks?

• 27:55Speaker 02

  Not only this, but even in other topics, like I think it'd be nice to find out.

• 27:59Jen Cohen?

  For the podcast or for real, like for this idea? Oh, okay.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  In other words, we could have a, a segment, we're just talking about things that we think we need.

• 28:07Jen Cohen?

  You know, we're doing a podcast right now.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  I know.

• 28:09Jen Cohen?

  Oh, okay, good, go ahead.

• 28:10Speaker 02

  But it's like, maybe, maybe we talk about things that the world needs. But we brainstorm a little bit.

• 28:15Jen Cohen?

  I love it, I love it, so, okay. I think, I think that's a really good, good point. What else do you think the world needs?

• 28:24Speaker 02

  Well, we talked about this experiential fitness piece.

• 28:27Jen Cohen?

  What do you think about all these gyms that are popping up that are this like, you know, hybrid of half medical, half gym?

• 28:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:35Jen Cohen?

  Like, you know, it does take your blood, it does all that.

• 28:38Speaker 02

  Isn't it inevitable?

• 28:39Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, but they're, and they're charging a lot, like Equinox is also kind of, did you hear about this Equinox? That's gonna start like another massively expensive.

• 28:46Speaker 02

  Forty thousand dollars a month, forty thousand dollar a year thing?

• 28:48Jen Cohen?

  Forty thousand dollars a year for a membership.

• 28:51Speaker 02

  It's a no brainer. They should, they should have done it three years ago.

• 28:54Jen Cohen?

  What do you get for forty thousand dollars?

• 28:57Speaker 02

  The price comes down over time, for sure.

• 28:58Jen Cohen?

  But what do you get for forty thousand?

• 29:00Speaker 02

  Program that's like two hundred fifty thousand.

• 29:02Jen Cohen?

  If anyone's paying two, if whoever's giving him two hundred and fifty.

• 29:06Speaker 02

  Concierge medicine. It's what it call.

• 29:08Jen Cohen?

  He's not even a doctor. He didn't even finish his medical, okay, I can't, let's not even talk about him. Okay, I can't.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  I'm just using him as an example, but concierge medicine exists and the gym should absolutely be the one to offer.

• 29:20Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, but that's different. A concierge doctor, by the way, some of these doctors are like, again, be discerning of who you're paying that kind of money to.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  Agreed.

• 29:28Jen Cohen?

  But.

• 29:28Speaker 02

  That's why a brand like Equinox could do some real damage.

• 29:30Jen Cohen?

  Okay, what, what do you think that you're, do we know what you get for forty thousand? Can you pull it up on your phone?

• 29:35Speaker 02

  I'm pretty sure it's a, a few doctors visits. I mean, there's, you know, Love Life is another one. The founder of Whole Foods started Love Life.

• 29:43Jen Cohen?

  Have you been there?

• 29:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it's just.

• 29:45Jen Cohen?

  There's a million of them. Love Life is one. There's a lot of them. There's also Monarch.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 29:50Jen Cohen?

  But this is all, these are all LA based. Let's talk, like, the, most people around the world don't have these. LA, New York, like big metro plot, like Miami has them, London. There's a lot of them. For the forty thousand dollar a year Equinox membership, what do you get?

• 30:09Speaker 02

  It's not much, actually. A biannual biomarker, biannual biomarker and physical testing alongside of roughly sixteen hours a month. Oh, a month of personal training, nutrition, sleep. So they basically partnered with Function.

• 30:21Jen Cohen?

  Oh, it's another partnership.

• 30:22Speaker 02

  And then they're throwing training into it. That's interesting. So it's really just largely training and then they, they are re.

• 30:29Jen Cohen?

  How much training are you getting for that price?

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Sixteen.

• 30:31Jen Cohen?

  Sixteen sessions?

• 30:35Speaker 02

  Sixteen hours a month of personalized training, nutrition, sleep and massage.

• 30:39Jen Cohen?

  Okay, how many massages?

• 30:41Speaker 02

  Sixteen hour, whatever the sixteen hours, I don't know how it breaks down, but bottom line is.

• 30:45Jen Cohen?

  Hold on, hold on. Sixteen hours of massage?

• 30:48Speaker 02

  Sixteen hours a month of personal training.

• 30:50Jen Cohen?

  And massage combined.

• 30:52Speaker 02

  And massage combined. So they're probably breaking out, like you get a massage and you get a training session and you get a nutrition session. I think they just needed to have something to offer the market. The fact that they're not doing their own testing, that's a partnership with, with Function.

• 31:04Jen Cohen?

  That's crazy. Okay, so then, so basically they're charging about two hundred dollars a session for training and or massage. It's about thirty two, thirty, thirty two hundred dollars a month, times twelve, comes to about thirty eight thousand, four hundred dollars.

• 31:20Speaker 02

  That's how you get to forty thousand.

• 31:21Jen Cohen?

  Okay, so like, it's not really a membership. You can go to Equinox today and be like, hey, can I get a trainer, you know?

• 31:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. It sounds like they're just trying to answer the market. I think the point you're.

• 31:32Jen Cohen?

  Four times a week.

• 31:33Speaker 02

  What's gonna happen in the future of this? And the future, to me, I think the gym is going to play a critical role. Now, what I think is interesting is what you were talking about earlier also, which is the social thing. Have you seen this social trend where people are going to the club? They're going to the.

• 31:47Jen Cohen?

  To the club.

• 31:48Speaker 02

  They're going to the health club and the sauna at night and it's a night experience.

• 31:53Jen Cohen?

  I have seen that.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  How come that doesn't exist in LA?

• 31:55Jen Cohen?

  It does. I'm sure it does. You just don't know.

• 31:58Speaker 02

  We would.

• 31:58Jen Cohen?

  You're a married man who's, like, you're not, just because, it's not that it doesn't exist, just because you don't know about it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

• 32:06Speaker 02

  This is true. But I've looked.

• 32:09Jen Cohen?

  Oh, I forgot. I'm sure you have looked. I forgot who I was talking to. Yes, you probably have looked. I think that the first thing you said was, I, I, I don't know, I'm a little bit, I have a little bit of a different perspective. I don't think you need to be spending so much money to be healthy. And I think that what you're actually like, that to me doesn't, doesn't make sense.

• 32:31Speaker 02

  No, I, I don't think the price makes sense, but I think it makes sense that the offer, like, the offer is gonna happen.

• 32:36Jen Cohen?

  But this is what I don't want, I, I, this is my concern. Number one is like, don't make, again, don't make the barrier to entry for people so high that then they just won't do it. Like, you could be fit for zero dollars. You can use YouTube. It's a YouTube, like, here are five great on, like, five ways to be fitter that costs zero money. Okay, five ways. YouTube. I mean.

• 33:02Speaker 02

  Well, let's, let's take that. You think there's an opportunity, speaking of what the world needs, is there a really low cost opportunity for longevity? No, no, I'm talking about a gym. So like, what if there was a gym that was fifty bucks a month?

• 33:17Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 33:17Speaker 02

  That include, that included all your labs, that included longevity coaching, nutrition coaching, training, because you're using AI to do most of this stuff anyway.

• 33:29Jen Cohen?

  I think.

• 33:30Speaker 02

  Is there an opportunity around that?

• 33:31Jen Cohen?

  I think that's the opportunity. Now that we're talking and ideating here.

• 33:34Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 33:35Jen Cohen?

  That's the opportunity, because I think what's happened is we've made it so.

• 33:40Speaker 02

  Inaccessible.

• 33:41Jen Cohen?

  So inaccessible that only like, for only the elite.

• 33:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 33:45Jen Cohen?

  That you can like, get these like very elevated exclusive experiences where you go to a fancy gym and you get your blood work done and you have access to doctors, you have access to trainers, and they put a premium price on it and now you're paying fifty thousand dollars, whatever, a month. Where I think where the opportunity is, is to basically bring it down to the mainstream and put in, in a gym and, and charge people, so charging people, you know, fifty thousand a month, even charge ten thousand, fifteen thousand a month, ten thousand, five thousand. This is what I was gonna tell you. Let me just say this, okay? I'm a membership, I'm a member at Equinox, right?

• 34:26Jen Cohen?

  And I'm paying an absurd amount of money for my membership. I'm paying three fifty a month. That's, that's like ridiculous for what I get. So I get some night, I get some clean towels, yippee skippy. I can bring my own towel.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  You don't like the eucalyptus?

• 34:40Jen Cohen?

  I don't, not, not for three hundred and fifty dollars. I could take my own towel, pour some peppermint drops on it, I'd be thrilled. Okay, or even eucalyptus, okay? I went, I was out of town recently. I went to, I was working at this EOS Fitness in Vegas. Better equipment than Equinox. I'm sorry to say that, Equinox. I'm not being, I don't, I'm not being paid by EOS, I'm not being paid by Equinox. I'm just being, I'm giving you the facts.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:06Jen Cohen?

  For twenty five bucks a month, you could go to EOS, they have great equipment and, and you could even get towel service for ten bucks a month.

• 35:15Speaker 02

  Is there a new opportunity in this for a national chain?

• 35:17Jen Cohen?

  I definitely think.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  That's a high end, but low cost.

• 35:21Jen Cohen?

  I'm just giving you one right now. EOS should bring in some blood, partner with someone or just.

• 35:26Speaker 02

  We didn't start EOS, they're not calling us.

• 35:29Jen Cohen?

  I know they didn't, I know they didn't call us. Why don't we start our own?

• 35:31Speaker 02

  This is what I'm trying to get to.

• 35:32Jen Cohen?

  I know, but I'm saying, I'm, I'm giving you both perspectives.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  So you think there's an opportunity for a low cost, full service longevity gym capability?

• 35:44Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, even, even middle of the road.

• 35:45Speaker 02

  What do you think the cost, what do you think the price is? The magic price per month that would give you bloods, nutrition, fitness, recovery, whatever, the, the whole stack? Cause I actually do think that there's something to figuring out a low cost, full service option.

• 36:02Jen Cohen?

  Okay, I'm gonna tell you what I think. I think that people plump up what they're actually getting. You get your blood work, what, twice a year? Okay.

• 36:10Speaker 02

  Well, let's call it once a quarter.

• 36:11Jen Cohen?

  Okay, once a quarter. Okay, let's be fancy. Once a quarter, okay. Let's say it's gonna cost, what, two fifty, two hundred bucks?

• 36:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:18Jen Cohen?

  Okay, two hundred times four, okay?

• 36:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:21Jen Cohen?

  Let's say we add in some training sessions.

• 36:24Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 36:24Jen Cohen?

  Okay. Now what? We get.

• 36:27Speaker 02

  Nutrition.

• 36:28Jen Cohen?

  A nutrition, a, a, someone to sit with you?

• 36:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:30Jen Cohen?

  Okay, how many times do these people sit with you? Once, twice? I mean, like, I think that if we're gonna do it on a lower end, when I say lower, not, not charge these premium prices, you know, and the truth is, people don't use it that much.

• 36:42Speaker 02

  They don't.

• 36:43Jen Cohen?

  Like, that's, that's a racket.

• 36:45Speaker 02

  The equivalent, the, the thing that democratizes all of this is having like incredibly powerful AI automations around all this stuff. And so what that potentially does is offers a very high end longevity and wellness suite of products. Nutrition, fitness, training in a place without all of the costs. And the typical costs are the two hundred dollars an hour you have to pay the nutritionist, the five hundred dollars an hour you have to pay the doctor, the, all the things that you add up, that's how you get to forty thousand dollars. If you made that more efficient and you had a technology that was a driving a lot of this stuff, you'd have a human like quarterback.

• 37:29Speaker 02

  You could probably get that price way down. And if it was, someone was paying ninety nine dollars a month and they had an incredible access to a gym and they had their doctor and they had all of this stuff, that would be pretty transformative. Everybody potentially would.

• 37:42Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, if you go on, if you go on to the, like, on Instagram, this is like, this is a huge, huge trend and there's a massive uptick. And this is what people are doing. They're creating these like huge globally wellness experiences. But there's a price tag that's very expensive. So if you can democratize it, is that what they?

• 38:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:06Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, to a place where people everywhere.

• 38:09Speaker 02

  Probably would do it. Maybe even.

• 38:12Jen Cohen?

  Let's see.

• 38:12Speaker 02

  Maybe even three hundred bucks a month.

• 38:14Jen Cohen?

  But then now we're getting up too high for the average person.

• 38:17Speaker 02

  But again, I think the unique thing we're talking about, and this is the leap.

• 38:21Jen Cohen?

  By the way, that's not that much.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  All in one, meaning it's a gym, like the, the idea that your gym and your doctor's office. I, I love the idea that it's non-clinical, that you have a doctor that understands your wellness and a, and your wellness providers that understand your medicine. I like that concept personally. I wonder if the masses like it, or do they need to see clinical place, have white walls and all this stuff? And their gym is completely separate, right? My doctor not once has seen any of my movement data. Never seen any of my sleep data, never seen any of my world health data. I think that's wrong. I think they should have that picture.

• 38:59Jen Cohen?

  Right, right, right. I don't think, listen, I think if that was really the case, that these places wouldn't be in existence, right? I don't think people need to have them separated. I think you could have them, I think you can, you should have them together. And I think that you just asked me earlier, where do I think the opportunity is? And I just told you, I think it's doing this but for more of a mainstream, moderate, middle of the road. That's the opportunity.

• 39:24Speaker 02

  I think you're right. I think that's, I think that's the case. And I think we're seeing a lot of attempts on the edges of that. And a lot of the expense associated with a gym is probably one of the reasons why you're seeing these e-commerce only things. But I think there's an opportunity owning the location because of the experiential piece we talked about.

• 39:41Jen Cohen?

  I also think. Funny. I also think that having that AI piece, AI can be more accurate than actual in real life.

• 39:54Speaker 02

  You know, I wonder if there's any interesting locations we can look at.

• 39:57Jen Cohen?

  We should.

• 39:58Speaker 02

  That, you know, where it would be interesting if somebody was selling an existing gym that would be a good pilot.

• 40:05Jen Cohen?

  I bet you, you know, it's funny. I have a couple of people I should talk to because I think I, I don't even know if LA necessarily would be the greatest place to do it. Where would be a good place to do it?

• 40:19Speaker 02

  Well, the only reason I say LA is because.

• 40:21Jen Cohen?

  We're both here.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's hard.

• 40:23Jen Cohen?

  By the way, we're still doing a podcast.

• 40:25Speaker 02

  I know. It's fun.

• 40:25Jen Cohen?

  Okay. People are probably like bored and tuned out.

• 40:29Speaker 02

  Well, it gets edited away, hopefully, right? So all the boring shit gets cut.

• 40:31Jen Cohen?

  I mean, I think it's actually interesting if you're into, into.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  Well, I, I think it's interesting too, because I, I really feel like, again, this community first approach to thinking about companies and things that need to exist. Nobody wants to build shit that no one gives a shit about. We only want to build stuff that like, a lot of people are like, oh, fuck, if you build that, I want it.

• 40:49Jen Cohen?

  Well, since you see a lot of deal flow, right? I would imagine.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  I see a lot, but again, we're internally ideating. So this process.

• 40:58Jen Cohen?

  Yeah. Well, I was gonna say like, what have you seen a lot of? Cause I would be curious, like you would know, like have your pulse.

• 41:07Speaker 02

  Finger on the pulse?

• 41:07Jen Cohen?

  Finger on the pulse. Um, is there something that people constantly come to you with?

• 41:13Speaker 02

  Everyone's building an AI app.

• 41:15Jen Cohen?

  So AI is super dominant right now?

• 41:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. And that doesn't, that's not saying anything negative about that, but that's just, that's common. I think, I've seen so many fitness devices. Um, everyone's got a device. I think they can, that, that costs a couple of thousand dollars. And I think someone's going to pay a $50 subscription and then a snap of fingers is going to happen like that. We all know how hard that is. At one point Peloton was worth $50 billion. I don't know what it's worth now. It's still doing great.

• 41:39Jen Cohen?

  No, it's not. I thought, I thought the stock's plummeted.

• 41:42Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, from a stock, from a valuation standpoint, it's not. I think it's sub $2 billion at this point, where it was worth a lot more at one point. But it's not their fault. Like it's, it's hard to get people hooked on a device and that they can stay on for many years. And then they're going to pay a subscription for, for many years, but that's what it requires. So I see a lot of that and underestimating the difficulty of getting people to pay a subscription for years upon years upon years.

• 42:07Jen Cohen?

  Well, because also people get bored.

• 42:11Speaker 02

  Or they get chafed.

• 42:12Jen Cohen?

  They, they, they get chafed physically.

• 42:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:16Jen Cohen?

  They, okay. Oh yeah, that's true with the, with the cycling. What I was gonna say is that you gotta keep it fresh, especially in the fitness, because think about this. I can't tell you how many apps, fitness apps have there been? And every time a new one comes out, I'm like, oh God, another fitness app. As if this is gonna do well. It's like just the same or I like, and, and wouldn't you know it? Another one comes up and it crushes like ladder. I mean, these things are all the same. They're all follow along, having someone to talk to you and they always, they all have a different little tweak here and there. But at the end of the day, it's all very similar and they keep on like iterating them a little and they keep on crushing and doing well, like not all of the apps.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  Well, they do well for a while and then they fall off.

• 43:01Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  That's just like the arc of it all. But what's interesting is the gyms, yeah, there's still some boutique fitnesses that have that same arc. But some of these gyms have just been able to stay steady and stay in existence.

• 43:13Jen Cohen?

  Like Barry's Bootcamp has been around forever. Orange Theory's been around forever. Equinox is more of a box gym.

• 43:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:20Jen Cohen?

  That's luxury and there's not much like, they've had some, like now life fitness is giving them a little bit of a run for their money. Cause it's one of the same type of, but life fitness feels much more family oriented.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  Well, I think they're doing some of the most innovative stuff. It seems like it. I mean, they're, they're really kind of evolving the country club model to make it more. Frankly, those would be the ones, those would be the ones I'd be most concerned about competing in this full stack.

• 43:45Jen Cohen?

  Well, I think they're doing that already.

• 43:46Speaker 02

  They have to be. Yeah.

• 43:48Jen Cohen?

  I mean, that's like a full service, everything.

• 43:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 43:51Jen Cohen?

  And they're expensive now.

• 43:52Speaker 02

  Is it?

• 43:53Jen Cohen?

  I don't know how much it is.

• 43:53Speaker 02

  Do they have doctors you can go to at Lifetime?

• 43:55Jen Cohen?

  I can't confirm or deny, but I would imagine so. I'll find out. Should we find out right now?

• 44:01Speaker 02

  What else does the world need?

• 44:02Jen Cohen?

  Well, I don't, I know what I need. Jennifer needs some water. So we're gonna wrap this and we can do another one. Okay. I hope we didn't bore you to, at, at, you, you're probably like, this is probably the best sleeping aid that you guys ever had.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  I hope not.

• 44:16Jen Cohen?

  Who needs a wearable? You could just listen to me and Hamet talk business and ideas. And if actually, if you guys have any good ones, let us know.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 44:25Jen Cohen?

  Let us know. This could be an interactive podcast.

• 44:28Speaker 02

  Why not?

• 44:28Jen Cohen?

  Why not? This is a new, we could just try and see what happens.

• 44:31Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 44:32Jen Cohen?

  All right. You guys, please subscribe if you haven't, if you haven't fallen asleep and please give us some ideas if you have, if you, if you listen to this full thing and you're like, hey, you know what would be a good idea? Why not this? Or how about this? Or I got an idea for that. We would be, we would love, love that information.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  And call us.

• 44:49Jen Cohen?

  Call us. Yes. All right. Or actually in this world, you could just DM us or, or whatever. You know.

• 44:58Speaker 02

  LinkedIn us. I'm better on LinkedIn than I am on all this other stuff.

• 45:00Jen Cohen?

  I'm sure LinkedIn, yeah, LinkedIn us. Perfect. Although I always forget to check LinkedIn.

• 45:04Speaker 02

  We'll check it.

• 45:06Jen Cohen?

  Or they can leave a comment on the podcast.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 45:08Jen Cohen?

  Okay, the, okay.

• 45:09Speaker 02

  That part.

• 45:09Jen Cohen?

  That's hard too. Okay. Okay, guys. Have a good one. Bye.