Trail Tales 69

Today’s stories include lighting strikes, protective birbs, family lore, finding yourself, poor planning and a strangely large amount of pet psychics. Outsiders Only bonus stories available for Patreon and Apple Subscribers! Listen to Watch Her Cook on Apple and Spotify! Follow us on InstagramFor the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials at:Instagram: @nationalparkafterdarkTwitter/X: @npadpodcastTikTok: @nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Thank you to the week’s partners! AG1: AG1 is offering new subscribers a FREE $76 gift when you sign up. You’ll get a Welcome Kit, a bottle of D3K2 AND 5 free travel packs in your first box. So make sure to check out DrinkAG1.com/npad. Discover Moab: Find a list of lodging options and guide companies to plan your trip today at DiscoverMoab.com. The Explorers Podcast: If you're into dangerous treks, strange history, and people who risked it all to chart the unknown, go listen to The Explorers Podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. Zocdoc: Use our link to download the Zocdoc app for free. Relief Band: For 20% off your order, head to Reliefband.com and use code NPAD. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:29Speaker 01

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• 1:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to National Park After Dark. I'm Cassie.

• 1:22Danielle LaRock?

  And I'm Danielle. And we are two different vibes today.

• 1:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  We are such, this is not planned at all, but if you're watching on YouTube, Danielle, or if you're not watching on YouTube and you can't see us, Danielle has a skull shirt on and mine is literally all flowers. I look like I'm wearing something from the 70s.

• 1:44Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, you look very flower power today.

• 1:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, and you look very spawn till you.

• 1:48Danielle LaRock?

  Metal.

• 1:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, metal. What does it say? Spawn till you die?

• 1:51Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, it's like a tarot card. It looks like, I got this in Alaska.

• 1:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  I remember it.

• 1:56Danielle LaRock?

  It has like, yeah, it looks like a tarot card and it has two salmon on it and it says spawn till you die.

• 2:03Danielle LaRock?

  I think it's clever. I think it's hilarious. It's a great shirt. It's a great shirt. It's just so funny because I feel like this is very telling of both of our personalities. Yes, golden retriever, black cat in full force today. Well, we have a Trail Tales episode for you. And would you like to go first or would you like me to take the lead today? I'm kind of feeling like going first. Okay. Okay. Mine is titled Little Ray of Lightning Strikes. Hi lovely souls, Ray here. I adore you two so much. Thank you for being your beautiful, authentic selves and sharing these wild tales. While this experience isn't exactly out on a trail, I felt that I was meant to share this experience with you all.

• 2:48Danielle LaRock?

  My husband and I work remotely and we were busy typing away on our computers during the work week. And I briefly looked outside to notice some gray clouds coming through. I asked my husband if we could take our little fur baby Lila out on a walk before the rain came through. He agreed and off we started on our stroll through the neighborhood. We decided to take Lila through the forest trail that makes a nice little loop back to our home. As we were about to walk into the forest, I felt my stomach drop. I looked up at the dark ominous clouds right above us and I felt a darkness overcome me. I couldn't explain what it was and we decided to continue our stroll. After halfway through our walk, I remember being midair in a fetal position, covering my ears, surrounded by white light.

• 3:30Danielle LaRock?

  I heard the loudest boom. I fell to the ground and my first thought was, where is Lila? I heard my little chihuahua cry and saw her running in the distance. I noticed that we were surrounded by smoke. I had no idea what had just happened and my husband and I exchanged looks and he screamed that we had been struck by lightning. I remember feeling a numbness throughout my body, but my heart was racing and I was so focused on getting back to Lila. We started chasing her and realized that she was running back home while my husband was yelling for someone in the neighborhood to call 911. We arrived home and I was processing what had just happened. Lila was perfectly fine, yet frightened out of her mind. She went and hid under our sofa and my neighbor came over.

• 4:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  Who happens to be a nurse and held my hand as I was shaking from what we had just experienced. After a visit to the ER, we found out that the lightning had struck a tree close to the trail and a lightning shard had entered my husband's back and exited through his foot, leaving a burn hole through his sock and shoe. With that being said, he was okay. We both ended up with some small cuts and bruises since we were tossed about six feet into the air. My hubby now believes that he is Thor. I felt horrible for what my little Lila had experienced. I knew it was a traumatic experience for her, so I decided that I wanted to connect with an animal communicator to see how she was processing things. I actually was able to find a local animal spirit communicator, which I was so excited for.

• 4:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  We scheduled an online meeting and I was blown away by her response. She initially asked about the experience and what had happened. She mentioned that Lila communicated to her that she had flown back home after the lightning strike. I couldn't help but chuckle because she ran with the wind that afternoon.

• 5:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  The spirit communicator also wanted to get to know who I was and I shared that I was a local artist. She asked for the name of my business and I told her it was Little Ray of Light Design. She immediately said, "Ray, you are not a little ray of light. You need to realize that you are a huge ray of sunshine and you can no longer play small. You are experiencing a sign from the universe." Her response resonated with my soul and I knew that my art needed to be bigger and I also needed to believe in myself. Wow. She also went on to ask about my husband. I said that he had actually been struck by lightning, but that he was okay. She said that this was because the trees are his spiritual ancestors. She went on to explain that he was able to withstand the strike because his ancestors are connected with the woods.

• 5:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  This made my stomach drop because my husband and his father do a lot of woodwork crafts and furniture together. Whenever I went on my hike with my husband and his father, they would always save a tree that was either entangled by another tree or covered in debris. It always amazed me how they could spot trees in distress. We started working as a team to help these trees on our hikes. I feel that I'm pretty mindful on my hikes and I'm able to spot wildlife, but I rarely ever Notice if trees just need a little help from us humans. I was in awe of this session and it really empowered me to evolve overall. The craziest part of this experience is that my dad had called me a few days before the lightning strike and asked if I was okay. I was very confused and I told him that we were fine. He went on to share that seven hikers were struck by lightning at grandfather mountain in

• 6:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Blue Ridge Mountains and he was afraid that it could have been us. Perhaps this experience was meant to happen. My husband and I still have a fear of thunderstorms and lightning, but I feel empowered to shine a whole lot brighter. Enjoy the view, my dear friends, but watch your back as lightning may strike. Right?

• 7:00Danielle LaRock?

  Wow. That story was all over the place. Had a little bit of everything.

• 7:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  That story, the fact that your husband got struck by lightning, that is, I'm so happy you guys are okay. And then I think reaching out to an animal communicator is the most wholesome thing I've ever heard in my entire life.

• 7:18Danielle LaRock?

  I just want to make sure my, my dog's okay emotionally.

• 7:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's such a chihuahua.

• 7:24Danielle LaRock?

  Parent thing to do.

• 7:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, it really is. Like they're just your babies and they're, chihuahuas are probably some of the best well taken care of dogs in the world.

• 7:35Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 7:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  They're just your little, they're your little babies.

• 7:39Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 7:43Speaker 04

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• 8:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, my first story is titled abandoned barns and my attempt to make a story sound cool. Hi ladies, my name is Isabel and I'm from central Texas. I love your stories and started listening during the pandemic to get through work. I particularly love the trail tales since I'm nosy.

• 8:30Danielle LaRock?

  Same. Yeah, I want to know what's going on in people's lives. I really wanted to share my story, even if it's a little boring. This story isn't in a national park or even on a trail. I'm not a storyteller, so please have grace for my choppy writing and retelling. Here we go. The year is somewhere in the late 1920s. My great grandfather and his friend are walking from Lululeah, Texas to Austin, Texas, which is a walking time of about 16 to 20 hours, according to Google. This could be even longer, considering major highways were not made yet and the road between these places was just compacted dirt. Along the way, the sun began to set and the start of a big storm was rolling in. My great grandfather and his friend had to quickly find shelter from the storm,

• 9:12Danielle LaRock?

  so they ran to the nearest building for cover, which was a rundown barn off the beaten path. With it being nighttime, they felt their way through the barn and bunkered down in some hay to sleep. All night, my great grandfather fought with insects that kept grazing his face and his neck. Eventually, he was able to sleep through the rolling storm until morning. As the birds chirped and woke up the two men, the insects kept grazing my great grandfather's face and neck. Annoyed, he grasped at his face only to find wispy, white strands of what he initially thought was a spider web. He laid in the hay, inspecting the strands in the early morning sun. He tugged gently on the strand, but it didn't break like a spider web. So, still laying down, he started from one end and followed it down to the pile of hay

• 9:55Danielle LaRock?

  next to him, only to come face to face with the skull of an old woman, whose long, white hair brushed over his face all night long. He jumped up and screamed, waking up his friend, who also started screaming. Both men high-tailed it back to the main dirt road and never looked back. My great grandfather told his kids this story, who told their kids, who told me and my siblings. I never got any more information than what was passed down from my grandfather. His father may have told him more details to the story, but this is the version that I've been told. I understand why they never told authorities. They were two dark-complexioned, Spanish-speaking men, traveling between two predominantly white cities during a very racially divided time. My guess is that the woman passed

• 10:39Danielle LaRock?

  Away in the barn with no close contacts to check on her. At least this is what I've told myself to try and soothe my unanswered questions. Anyway, hope you both found it somewhat interesting. And I hope others find this treasured family story as a weird little quip to use as a filler in a boring conversation. Enjoy the view and watch out for abandoned barns and mystery spider webs. Love, Isabel.

• 11:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, it definitely was not a boring story, Isabel. I think one of the things I really loved about that story was that it was passed down from generations to generation. And I know that if you have a family, you also pass it. Like it's, it's fun to have stories that are your own history and from your own family members. And I just thought that that was really fun.

• 11:24Danielle LaRock?

  I am now officially asking for family lore.

• 11:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 11:28Danielle LaRock?

  Please, because that was fun.

• 11:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  That was fun.

• 11:31Danielle LaRock?

  Now nosey and want to know what people's great grandparents were up to.

• 11:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Cool. Well, my next story, I'm on a animal theme because my next one is titled Cat Rescues During a Hurricane. Hi ladies, my name is Corinne and like anyone who writes in, I'm a fan of the podcast. I listen to the pod during my daily walks with my almost one year old. As a former National Park Service interpretive ranger, many of your stories not only take me back to parks I've worked in, but are always giving me a laugh as I think about my own trail tales. I would say I just finished listening to Trail Tales 58 about the kitten inside of Yosemite National Park. And it reminded me of a time I rescued a cat in a state park during a hurricane evacuation. After working as a seasonal ranger for the MPS, I worked as a state park ranger in Florida.

• 12:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  To set the stage a bit, it was November 2020, I was working at a park just north of West Palm Beach. This park has two big campgrounds and a larger one of the two has about 60 RV sites. And then 12 sites in a row for our volunteers. About two weeks before this real story begins, campers let their cat named Cheesy out for his evening stroll. Side note, please don't let your animals roam freely in our state and national parks. They always need to be on a leash. Well, for whatever reason, Cheesy went. went out on an adventure that night and never returned back to the camper. For two weeks, staff, visitors, and family kept their eyes out for Cheesy and even extended the family's stay so that they might eventually find their beloved family pet. But no luck. Two weeks passed with no real sign of the cat.

• 13:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  This is a high coyote and bobcat area, so to me, it's pretty obvious what Cheesy's fate was. Oh, how wrong I was. Two weeks later, and we were in the midst of a hurricane watch and had to evacuate all campers and volunteers who resided in RVs. Cheesy's family had left the park in tears. Their kids were heartbroken over the loss. The winds picked up and rain was coming down in the streets when one of my volunteers called me to tell me that earlier that morning, they saw what they thought was a cat running under the RV, and now they could hear very faint meows. I thought, there's no way, but okay, I guess I'll take a look. I crawl under her RV, and sure enough, tucked up in the engine block was a fluffy gray tabby looking absolutely terrified.

• 13:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Holy crap, Cheesy is alive and hurricane is coming. Cheesy was just out of reach. My house was too far away to run and grab a can of cat food, but luckily, the same volunteer who was unknowingly housing the cat under the home had a can of tuna on standby. At this point, her husband is under the RV with me, using his long arms to reach for Cheesy. A volunteer is standing at my car, ready to open the door and shut it for me. And oh yeah, about 20 people have now gathered around to witness the rescue. Arms stretched as long as he can get, he gets the can of tuna as close to Cheesy as he, as we can. He brings his head down ever so slightly to grab a nibble, and that's when I grab him so tightly, there was no getting away.

• 14:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  I rolled out, yes, rolled out from under the RV with the cat in my arms, and ran through the elements to my car. Another volunteer opened the door and shut it behind me. Cheesy didn't squirm or show any indication of wanting to run. Instead, purrs began as he clung to me. That poor cat had been out for two weeks. I called the owners, who happened to be only 20 minutes away, so they came back right away. While we waited, I just sat with the kitty in my car. When I handed Cheesy back to his mom, I just smiled. So much of me wanted to remind her of why we don't let our animals roam freely. But with tears in her eyes, I knew those past two weeks had been hell for her and it would likely be the lesson she learned in the hard way. So that's my long-winded story of a cat rescue during a hurricane.

• 15:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  And a story to serve as a reminder that if you bring your animals to parks, national or state, please follow the posted animal rules.

• 15:22Danielle LaRock?

  Cheesy. What a good name. You know, one of those kids.

• 15:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's my list of.

• 15:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  I would name a cat Cheesy and it would be orange and it would be really fluffy.

• 15:35Danielle LaRock?

  Well, who, no one's stopping you. You keep saying you're gonna get these animals and you have, you know, you're.

• 15:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm stopping me.

• 15:42Danielle LaRock?

  Free adult with a, you're a grown up with a home that you own.

• 15:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  I know. Alan, I have been looking at cats recently, but he's so bad because I sent him a screenshot of these four kittens that are at a rescue place. They're not ready yet, but they will be in like four weeks. And I sent him a screenshot. There was four of them and he's like, yes, all four. I'm like, no, someone needs to, I have to be the one to rein it in, which is not normal, but I don't know. We travel so much. It's hard.

• 16:14Danielle LaRock?

  You know, you have two dogs.

• 16:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's hard to, I know. I have, well, I have two dogs, but we have two babysitters because both of our parents agreed to watch them. I don't know if we could convince them to also add in a cat.

• 16:27Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. And the trap, the cat would have to be a traveling cat, like good with being shuffled around, for sure.

• 16:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Or I'd have to find someone to come to the house. I don't love the idea of leaving my cat alone in the house with no one. With people who come like once every other day to feed and say hi. Like I just don't think that's very fair for the cat. I understand it's easy, but I would just feel bad. And I know the cat would be fine, but I just feel bad for them socially to do that.

• 16:54Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, it feels like you have a lot of roadblocks. Maybe, yeah. Cheesy, your cheesy is in the future for sure, but not maybe now. That story reminded me of, sorry, what?

• 17:08Danielle LaRock?

  We talked at the literal same time, so I couldn't hear you at all.

• 17:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  I was just saying that I would have a giant fluffy cat named Cheesy.

• 17:17Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, okay. Yeah.

• 17:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  This is very unimportant.

• 17:25Danielle LaRock?

  What the hell was I gonna say?

• 17:28Danielle LaRock?

  Um, oh, right. That story reminded me of the one I did now years ago, like at least two years ago. It was a bonus story about Jade, the dog Jade in Yellowstone that was lost for like months in the park and after a car accident. And this dog got out, her name was Jade, and she survived in Yellowstone for months. And the story was really cool. I've read a book about it. And it was heartwarming.

• 17:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  It was a really interesting, heartwarming story.

• 18:00Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 18:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  Cause that would be devastating to have like a bad ending to that, but.

• 18:04Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, I, when I tell you my, the pit in my stomach, when I think about my dogs or dog now getting out and like running away and getting lost, it makes me physically sick. Like when people are like, oh, they hear a story about something and they're like, I feel sick. That in particular, that type of story, really, I understand that feeling. I don't know what it is. I, I just, cause so much could go wrong, you know?

• 18:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Well, they're all in wildlife and they're domesticated dogs and yeah, and cars, people. I think my biggest fear is that a person would find, not my biggest fear, a big fear, would be that a person would find my dog and then not report it to anyone and keep them. And then I would just never know.

• 18:54Danielle LaRock?

  I'm gonna one up you and give everyone a new fear.

• 18:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 18:57Danielle LaRock?

  And I remember telling you about this and I'm gonna botch the details, so I'll keep it really short. But essentially, there was a veterinarian that I used to work with in Washington state. And he was a relief doctor at our hospital. So he, I didn't work with him all the time, but I worked with him for like a handful of shifts. And the, some of the girls that I used to work with texted me after I had moved out of Washington and sent me news articles, like, do you remember this guy? And I was like, oh yeah, whatever. And they're like, yeah, he's all over the news. Because he had a property out in Washington. And the neighbors' dogs used to always get loose. They were two Huskies and they used to always get loose. And.

• 19:39Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, and he, for whatever, I don't know. Like I said, the details are murky now because this was a couple of years ago. But essentially, he was threatening the, the owners of like, keep your dogs in, or like, whatever. I don't know. I, I think he had some livestock that they may have been like, slightly harassing or something. I don't know. But anyways, long story short, he friggin' killed them. And then like, took the dogs that, once they were on the property, family pets. And he euthanized them with euthosol from, from the vet office. And then took them, put them in garbage bags and threw them on the side of the road and then told the owners where they could go find them. He's like, go get your dogs.

• 20:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  So messed up.

• 20:21Danielle LaRock?

  I, like, I'm sorry, that's so traumatizing to everybody.

• 20:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  How is someone a veterinarian who does that?

• 20:28Danielle LaRock?

  Well, his license is probably long gone now.

• 20:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  License is gone. Is he in jail or anything?

• 20:35Danielle LaRock?

  I think there was like, a lot of discrepancy because I know he was from Canada. So I don't know if like, there was some sort of, I don't know what was going on with it. But, yeah, wow, I don't even remember his name. Uh, but I'm sure you could, you have enough details now to like, look it up if you want. It was the story that like, I couldn't even believe was real. Especially because I worked with him. And I, I was his tech a few times and I remember people always were like, this guy's kind of weird. And I kind of gave him a pass because I was like, yeah, he seems strange, but he was really into like, um, falconry. And he had a bunch of bird, like, birds of prey and stuff at his property.

• 21:15Danielle LaRock?

  And like, he was just into things that I think the normal person would be like, that kind of feels like an oddball thing. Like a niche thing or whatever. But I'm like, I don't know. I don't get like, killer vibes from him or anything. And I was wrong. I was very wrong.

• 21:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, yeah. You have to be really messed up to do anything like that. Because that's, that's so intentional, like, the process of doing that. Yeah.

• 21:40Danielle LaRock?

  And evil.

• 21:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  And those dogs had, he had to have been, I just think of the dogs, they had to, had to have been like, nice dogs that ran up to him. To do that.

• 21:49Danielle LaRock?

  Trust.

• 21:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Thing of him because you can't just do that with a dog that is aggressive or by yourself.

• 21:55Danielle LaRock?

  And the family, I remember seeing the family posted all over Facebook about it because they're like, we want to get the word out. This is insane. And they posted pictures of the two dogs like with their children and like on the couch and like just, it was just so awful. Okay. Let's move on because I'm getting sick.

• 22:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's awful.

• 22:14Danielle LaRock?

  So anyway, yeah, that's needless to say, my fear is not only wildlife and getting hit by a car and having someone take them for their own. Because Chaska is amazing and who wouldn't want him, but also people are messed up. And or they're like, oh, I shot him because I thought, I thought it was a coyote. And it's like, a golden retriever. It's like, are you kidding?

• 22:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  Someone saw Amber the other day and thought she was a coyote.

• 22:38Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 22:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  I was like, are you serious? Amber does not even look slightly like a coyote.

• 22:45Danielle LaRock?

  It's like, oh, is it because she's a dog?

• 22:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  She has a pink bandana on. Like, what do you mean a coyote?

• 22:52Danielle LaRock?

  Brown.

• 22:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  She's small. She's dark brown.

• 22:57Danielle LaRock?

  I'm laughing because I laugh when I'm uncomfortable and that makes me uncomfortable.

• 23:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  It made me nervous though, because I was like, what do you mean? People could mistake Amber as a coyote?

• 23:06Danielle LaRock?

  Well, that's like, yeah.

• 23:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  She's a pit mix. Like, what do you mean a coyote?

• 23:11Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. And people are so trigger happy also, especially like out if you have them.

• 23:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Camping area too.

• 23:18Danielle LaRock?

  I know.

• 23:24Cassandra Yahnian?

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• 24:57Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, all right. Let's go on with something else. Probably to another. I don't even know where this story's going. It could also be depressing.

• 25:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Perfect.

• 25:04Danielle LaRock?

  It's titled, "Poor Planning and a Psychic." A year ago, I found your podcast and was listening to your episode on the night of the Grizzlies as I drove towards the Black Balsam in Pisgah National Forest, North Carolina, for my first solo backpacking trip. We were going to do one night, maybe two, just to get our feet wet, so to speak. Kova, my giant schnauzer, who was three years old and 85 pounds at the time, was riding along quietly in the backseat. I had decided on this trip last minute and was nervous but excited. The trip was, in short, a memorable experience. But here's the long version. We arrived late to the trailhead and started up towards Black Balsam Knob with 40 minutes to sunset. Reaching the top of the rise, I realized we did not have time to cross and get back down under the tree line before sunset as I had planned.

• 25:49Danielle LaRock?

  And this posed a problem, since we were hammock camping. No trees equals no hammock. But I figured I could figure it out when we got to a campsite. So I passed campsite after campsite, watching the sun sink lower and lower. They were all taken. The climb up had been steep enough that I had zero interest in navigating back that way in the dark, even With a headlamp since both Kova and I were carrying weight. I was also not loving the idea of pressing forward into the winding, steep trails that were at times edged by brush taller than myself. Home to who knows how many black bear. Oh yeah, forgot to mention, this whole area is heavy with black bear presence and canisters and spray are required due to years and years of campers not being careful with food.

• 26:32Danielle LaRock?

  And I had just listened to you both tell me about um about murdery bears for several hours. Awesome. No going back, no going forward, no open campsites, bears everywhere. I was watching the sun go down and remember thinking to myself that at least the sunset is beautiful since it may be my last. The mental theatrics were in full force. Anyways, since I knew. It's like, okay. Anyways, since I knew my father would follow me into the afterlife to deliver the dressing down I absolutely deserved for this show of exceptionally poor planning. I decided death was not an option and told my inner princess to shut the hell up and let me work. I found a few particularly tall, thin bushes and managed to string up my hammock shelter so we were sheltered from the wind.

• 27:17Danielle LaRock?

  I threw down the hammock as a tent floor, set up lanterns, and then took Kova's pack and my bear canister down the trail to stash until morning. Then I crawled into our makeshift shelter with Kova and hunkered down for the night with a degree of self-satisfaction since I had rigged what I felt was a passable shelter. I had to get up once and put my backup fleece on Kova and tuck him under the blanket since condensation was building and temps were dropping. The shelter was now feeling less satisfactory, but thanks to our combined body heat and my single brain cell having considered packing layers, I did not end up with hypothermia. And then at 4am, I was woken up by the sound of growling. Very close, very loud rumbling noises, which I was absolutely not about to investigate.

• 28:03Danielle LaRock?

  It happened just once and then it was quiet for who knows how long. It felt like an eternity. There were no crunching leaves, no snuffling, nothing. Kova seemed unconcerned, which should have calmed me down, but since I was absolutely convinced at this point that we were about to be eaten, I just assumed there was something wrong with my dog. And then my stomach growled again. I had forgotten to eat dinner in my haste to stash our food and to get inside the tent. And now I was hungry. I was also so, so done with this shit show of a trip. And so I set aside my last brain cell and decided that come hell, high water, or bears, we were leaving at sunrise. It's so funny because the paranoia surrounding this is definitely because of you, Cassie.

• 28:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  Me?

• 28:46Danielle LaRock?

  Yes, they were just listening to Night of Grizzlies, which is-

• 28:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  I didn't make that story up.

• 28:53Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, but you really, you sent it out to the masses in a way that-

• 28:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  That was terrifying?

• 28:58Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 28:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yep. Sorry that you're, I caused your stomach growl to scare you.

• 29:07Danielle LaRock?

  I started packing our tent, located our stash and cracked a canned coffee before donning my headlamp and hitting the trail. We reached the top of Tennant Mountain just after sunrise and I admit stopping there to finish coffee and have breakfast was spectacular. We cut out grassy cove top and instead followed a shorter loop back to the trailhead, arriving at the car around 10 a.m. I drove home feeling tired, proud and determined to never again be such a dumbass. About five months after I nearly unalived Kova and myself in the mountains, I hired a pet psychic.

• 29:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Another one?

• 29:38Danielle LaRock?

  Wait a second. What's going on here?

• 29:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Is there a theme in this episode?

• 29:43Danielle LaRock?

  Unintentional theme by me, I think, subconscious.

• 29:48Danielle LaRock?

  I hired a pet psychic to talk with my cats and Kova. Now I was skeptical. I'm super spiritual and believe in this stuff, but still scams are real. But I had questions about my cats. These are my first felines and I didn't feel I was meeting all of their needs, but couldn't figure out exactly what I was missing. This is-

• 30:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Another very wholesome.

• 30:09Danielle LaRock?

  What in the world?

• 30:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's making me wanna hire a pet psychic to talk to my dogs.

• 30:14Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I feel kind of like I've been failing for not doing this now. Yeah. Enter psychic from stage left. She had only asked me for a photo of each animal before our session and for their names. No other details. We kick off and I am careful to not offer anything upfront. She just starts. She talked about things she could not have possibly known about with the cats, enough so that by the time we moved on to Kova, I was sold on the authenticity of this discussion. She asked if I had any outdoorsy trip planned in the near future, and I confirmed that I was considering a trip in the late summer to visit Big Bend National Park. She says, "He's a bit, he's very concerned about the bears," and I was floored. She goes on, "He's concerned about you being somewhere. It feels remote,

• 30:59Danielle LaRock?

  and like he's concerned about not being able to protect you, and he just keeps sending ideas to me, like of big predators, and bears are just the first thing I think of. He clearly doesn't know exactly what this thing looks like, but he doesn't want anything to do with it." So I told her Kova can't actually hike in Big Bend, so I was going to leave him at home, and she informed me, "He definitely doesn't like that idea." And so then I told her, "There are no bears in Big Bend, so he doesn't need to worry." Is that true?

• 31:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know. I'd have to look it up.

• 31:30Danielle LaRock?

  I'll take your word for it, Erin. And she says, "Yeah, he doesn't believe you."

• 31:37Danielle LaRock?

  I guess me neither. I don't know if that's legit. Needless to say, I did not go to Big Bend. Kova also apparently does not like me going to bars by myself, is afraid of me hitting my head, and generally indicated he doesn't think I'm capable of surviving without him. After our trip to the mountains and a 20-pound wooden display falling on my head shortly after the psychic discussion, I feel like Kova's concerns are reasonable.

• 32:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  Just saying. This is adorable.

• 32:07Danielle LaRock?

  Quick side note.

• 32:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  You say creepy, I say adorable.

• 32:10Danielle LaRock?

  Quick side note, I find humor in my short overnight on the mountain, since I am okay and learned from the trip. That said, in case others do not read between the lines of my experience as I have done, this was a best-case ending to what could have been a really bad situation. Your podcast describes so many situations which are product of our own human error. What starts as small, seemingly insignificant oversight can become a true issue when the environment is unforgiving and you are hours from assistance, alone and unprepared. We learned from this experience and I am now the person in the group who is overprepared and probably slightly annoying in my insistence for everyone to carry a minimum list of gear before starting any adventure. But you know what? I'd rather be a little, I'd rather be

• 32:52Danielle LaRock?

  a little annoying than a lot dead. Happy trails, Erin.

• 33:01Speaker 05

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• 33:32Danielle LaRock?

  Pet psychics, man. Okay, this is a sign that we should probably like get on that.

• 33:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, I think we should. I think it would be really fun.

• 33:41Danielle LaRock?

  I'm just a little worried because Chaska's so emotional and you know what I mean?

• 33:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, he's the most emotional dog I've ever met.

• 33:49Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, it's kind of odd. It's kind of strange and it's not even like, oh no, like I'm in tap with him because he's like the best dog because he's mine. It's like not even that.

• 33:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, like I know.

• 34:00Danielle LaRock?

  Everyone that knows him knows that. I mean, Blue wasn't like that. Of course, I'm like, oh yeah, like I love.

• 34:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  Blue had like one emotion though, and that was happy.

• 34:09Danielle LaRock?

  Blue had one brain cell for sure and it was focused on being happy.

• 34:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  It was perfect brain cell though.

• 34:16Danielle LaRock?

  It was the most perfect brain cell to ever have been in existence. But yeah, I don't know, something about Chaska, I'm just worried that like he's going to be like, I'm sad and I'm not going to know what to do.

• 34:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  But maybe if he is sad, he can. Communicate what he wants you to do.

• 34:31Danielle LaRock?

  I feel like I do a lot. Like, you know, it's like I'm giving all that I have to give.

• 34:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. I don't know. I feel like because he's so emotional, I don't think it has anything to do with you. He very much loves you.

• 34:42Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 34:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  But like, because he's so emotional, maybe it would be an interesting reading.

• 34:48Danielle LaRock?

  And I think also it might make me sad because I think that a lot of, and I, well, I know. And it's so weird that the synchronicities of life that we're talking about pet psychics, and this is all coming full circle right now. Because Chaska was always an emotional dog for sure. But when Ian passed away, which when this is released on May 8th, will be his three year death anniversary. Something flipped in Chaska and he became kind of a different dog. He ate through my drywall four ti- anytime I, I was a prisoner of my own home for a really long time. Because anytime I would leave, and I'd had Chaska for eight years before this.

• 35:32Danielle LaRock?

  Seven, eight years before I even met Ian, and he was always fine. And the second I left after Ian died, he liter- literally broke his teeth. Trying to eat through the wall to get out of the house four times because he was just so emotionally.

• 35:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Distraught.

• 35:50Danielle LaRock?

  Distraught and destroyed and stressed. And he would just panic, like he's on anti-anxiety meds now, like he, just something like snapped in him. And I'm just like really afraid to hear from him directly. It's like, I already know. And I, I don't know if I want to know through a psychic. It's like, if you want to tell me things that are maybe nice, I'll listen. I don't know.

• 36:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, like you don't want the confirmation of something that you already know.

• 36:17Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 36:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's really hard.

• 36:20Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, but I feel like if you were to do it with Tucker or Amber, I would love to hear their experience and their thoughts.

• 36:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  I feel like Tucker would just talk about chicken the whole time and Amber.

• 36:33Danielle LaRock?

  Why?

• 36:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Amber feels, he just loves chicken like any, like it's his favorite food, like he loves for chicken, which is kind of sad because he recently got diagnosed with a very early stage kidney disease and his doctor told him he can't have chicken anymore. Or very limited chicken, so.

• 36:52Danielle LaRock?

  How much chicken was he in intake?

• 36:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  He gets chicken.

• 36:55Danielle LaRock?

  Before?

• 36:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  His chicken intake was ridiculous. He will only eat his dinner with, if there's chicken in it. So you would have to give him actual cooked chicken, unseasoned cooked chicken and put it into his bowl. And he'll eat his kibble if there's chicken on top of it, but if there's not chicken on top of it, he will not touch it. And not even like just wait it out. We tried waiting it out and it was four days and he still was refusing to eat. And we're like, okay, well, we have to feed him. So.

• 37:22Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 37:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like he was, it's chicken or, or death.

• 37:28Danielle LaRock?

  Have you tried like, I don't know, like a chicken topper, like flavoring?

• 37:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. So what she recommended is doing like a chicken, a low sodium chicken broth on top.

• 37:39Danielle LaRock?

  He's gonna know.

• 37:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  He's gonna know. So what I was thinking is that I would do white rice and then put a low sodium chicken broth, like soaked in the white rice and put it on top. So I can like chick, so I can trick him.

• 37:51Danielle LaRock?

  I could chicken trick him.

• 37:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  I could chicken trick him. Yeah. But I would be interested to hear from Amber because I don't know her first few weeks of life. I feel like Amber is a little bit more of a like enigma, I guess, in her emotions. But yeah, she's kind of a mystery, but there's some things about her that I would be interested to know. Like one theory I have for her is she was from Southern Texas and she was born in March. And she is not afraid of weather or thunderstorms, lightning, anything, any type of weather. She is fine being outside. She does not care at all. Kind of think that she was like this tiny little baby. They found her at six weeks old,

• 38:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  running around by herself without any siblings or a mom or anything like that. And I kind of think she had just been out on her own during hurricane season in Texas. And I'd be curious if that was something that was brought up.

• 38:47Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, she's like, I have weathered all storms.

• 38:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, she does not care. No matter the weather, does not matter. She wants to be outside. I'm like, well, you live here in the house.

• 38:58Danielle LaRock?

  But it's like, this is your home, actually.

• 39:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  And we stay inside during storms now.

• 39:10Speaker 05

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• 39:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, to keep the theme going, my next story is titled Dream Premonitions and Protective Birds.

• 39:47Danielle LaRock?

  Actually, I see what you're seeing, and I think it says burb.

• 39:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  It says burbs, but then it talks about birds.

• 39:54Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 39:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  What's a burb?

• 39:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  What's a burb? I thought it was a typo.

• 40:01Danielle LaRock?

  Sorry.

• 40:04Danielle LaRock?

  You know what this reminds me? I had to double check when I saw that. I'm like, did Courtney write this? Remember Courtney?

• 40:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 40:11Danielle LaRock?

  She would always say burb, like when she was talking about birds. I think it's that. It's not, not that it's Courtney, but I think that's.

• 40:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, like saying it in like a dream premonition and protective burbs.

• 40:25Danielle LaRock?

  I think it's a typo.

• 40:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's not.

• 40:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  Whatever. Well, we're talking about You tell me whoever. Or burbs.

• 40:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay, I'm feeling silly today.

• 40:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay, go ahead. The shirt.

• 40:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yours or mine? Both. Okay, well, either way, I'm gonna tell the story. Don't even, if there's a pet psychic in here, if there's a burb psychic, I'm gonna lose it.

• 40:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like we're ending the episode immediately. Oh, okay. Hi, guys. I've been listening to the podcast for a few years now and love how thoughtful and informative every episode is. I know all who listen are all very appreciative of all the hard work, research, and passion y'all bring into the podcast. My name is Crystal and I'm from Southern California. My cousin and I live together in our early twenties in Hollywood and hike once or twice a week around the area. One day, I suggested going to La Tuna Canyon Trail in San Fernando Valley because I had been there a few times during the spring the year before and remember it being so beautiful, walking along the stream, leading up to multiple waterfalls that gradually increased in size and intensity as we hiked up higher. Now,

• 41:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  before I get to our trail portion of the story, I need to preface that the night before I had had a dream, I had gone out to lunch with my grandpa and I told him I was going to hike the next day. In the dream, he looked down and shook his head while saying in Spanish, "Es muy peligroso, aka it's too dangerous." I rolled my eyes and told him we hike in these areas all the time. I woke up annoyed and confused because that's totally something my grandpa and grandma would say because they're very cautious people, but continued on with my day. We arrived to the trail and made our way down from the parking area, which was unusually empty for the time of day. We went down the short trail to where the stream flows to get onto the main trail. As we got there, we started climbing up the

• 42:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  rocks and the trickle of the stream lightly falling down. Once we got up to that point, we were right on the edge of the entrance for the main trail and we got a really eerie feeling. First off, we were surrounded by crows. Second off, the trail looked like an overgrown tunnel with the trees looming and creating shadows. We stopped and the crows started yelling at us. When I say yelling, I mean calling, but it felt like they were all yelling at us. They surrounded the entrance and the nearby trees close to where we were standing and called so overwhelmingly loud that we could barely hear each other talk. We looked at each other and my cousin asked, do you think we should go somewhere else? This feels weird. And I immediately said, yes, that was not the way I remembered this trail and it felt scary.

• 43:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  We started making our way back down and up back to the parking lot. The whole time we were walking away, two crows followed us all the way back to the parking area and waited until we got in the car before heading back. I couldn't help but feel like they were warning us and trying to tell us to go back. And the fact that two of them followed us and waited until we got back in our car to head back made me feel like it was confirmation that they were trying to protect us from something. I had never experienced something so unusual and creepy. It felt like a horror film, but I'm glad we didn't continue to find out what was beyond that trail. I truly believe my dream was the first warning and then the universe sent the crows to make sure our strong willed personalities were humbled in that moment. We both have heavy Sagittarius placements in our chart and don't like being told what to do

• 43:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  and like to prove other people wrong. Shout out to our fellow Sag Danielle's.

• 43:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  We ended up going to another trail that had the complete opposite feel and that we've been to many, many times before, full of dogs and people. What do you guys think that was all about? Maybe a predator, mountain lion, or creepy person lurking around? I don't know, but I love animals and trust their judgment. Thanks for all you do. I hope one day I can join one of your trips, sit around a campfire and tell you guys some more creepy paranormal stories passed down from my family that I have also experienced. Love you guys, enjoy the view, but trust your prophetic dreams and the burbs.

• 44:26Danielle LaRock?

  There it is.

• 44:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  There it is. Not burbs. The burbs.

• 44:30Danielle LaRock?

  What do we think? I think there's something to be said about paying attention to the behavior of animals around you when you're out in nature. And sometimes they're responding to you or like sounding alarm calls or whatever because of your presence. But it could also be indicative of something else and it's important to. Make sure you're kind of in tune to that and paying attention to that.

• 44:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Crows are also really intelligent birds. So I think that's also something to keep in mind. So I don't know what it could have been. Like you said, it could have been, they didn't like you and wanted you out of their space. But also, I mean, maybe there was some protective.

• 45:10Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, especially coupled with the dream beforehand and just.

• 45:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, it feels like we don't really believe in coincidences and that feels like it could have been a warning for sure. Speaking of dreams, actually, this story reminded me, I had a dream about you last night.

• 45:25Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 45:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  It was real. I woke up this morning and I was like, what was that? And now I'm now, if it was a warning to me, I feel like I should confront you about it.

• 45:35Danielle LaRock?

  But confront me?

• 45:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, confront you.

• 45:37Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 45:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  I had a dream that you approached me and said that you were giving up podcasting for your real dream to become a rock star. And you pulled out a guitar and you started singing all of these songs that you had been writing. And you told me that your dream was to go out on the road and become a musician, a musician.

• 45:59Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, well.

• 46:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  And then you showed up in that shirt for this.

• 46:04Danielle LaRock?

  I'm like, she's doing it.

• 46:08Danielle LaRock?

  My prophetic dream. Uh, yeah, you don't have to worry about me with that. I don't even listen to music, so.

• 46:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  I know. I was shocked. You were really good in my dream too.

• 46:16Danielle LaRock?

  Maybe it's like an alt, an alternate timeline. That's.

• 46:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  Maybe.

• 46:21Danielle LaRock?

  Me, but in this one that we're living like consciously right now, you don't have to worry about that.

• 46:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Thank you.

• 46:26Danielle LaRock?

  You're welcome. I know if anything happens to either of us, like, we're kind of screwed.

• 46:34Danielle LaRock?

  I think about that like actually kind of a lot.

• 46:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 46:37Danielle LaRock?

  And I feel like we need to like.

• 46:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Our lives are very much intertwined.

• 46:40Danielle LaRock?

  Seriously, I'm like, what would ever happen and.

• 46:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  We need alternate.

• 46:45Danielle LaRock?

  I have a backup plan that. I never told you.

• 46:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  As a musician?

• 46:50Danielle LaRock?

  It is not. It is not. Um, I asked, this is so funny because it was actually like a couple of days, um, like maybe a week ago now.

• 46:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm so curious.

• 47:00Danielle LaRock?

  Um, something ha- I don't know what happened, but, oh yeah, um, we were, me and Jeff were talking about some like wholesome things or whatever. And he, and he was like, just so you know, me, Wes and Mike would each give a kidney to Cassie if she ever needed it. And I'm like, well, she's already, I'm like, well, she's already taken two people. So that's kind of selfish.

• 47:23Danielle LaRock?

  And I'm like, but that's nice to know. And then like, I don't know, just like devolve from there of being like, what would I ever do? Like if Cassie, like something happened to Cassie.

• 47:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 47:32Danielle LaRock?

  And I was like, would you guys adopt me? Like, could I be absorbed into Tuft and Claw in some sort of way?

• 47:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like, could I be the fourth host?

• 47:40Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, like, or something, like just adopt me in some way, like work for you guys. And I think he might've said no. So maybe it's not a backup plan, but I've been thinking about it is my point.

• 47:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay. All right.

• 47:53Danielle LaRock?

  So you should probably think about it.

• 47:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bad thing. I mean, you should have a backup plan, I guess.

• 47:57Danielle LaRock?

  And I'm not saying you, just me, like I could go before you.

• 48:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. No, I know. Now I'm like.

• 48:03Danielle LaRock?

  Which I think I might.

• 48:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  You think you're gonna die before me?

• 48:05Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 48:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  Why?

• 48:06Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know. I just feel like I am.

• 48:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  Really?

• 48:09Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. I feel like you're long for this world.

• 48:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  I do too. My mom, my mom told me, so I backstory, if you're like new to the podcast, but I have almost died very, many times in my life, I've had two kidney transplants and I've, um, had countless surgeries and I'm still kicking, uh, but.

• 48:28Danielle LaRock?

  Still doing well.

• 48:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  Still doing well. My, my health is great right now. Uh, but my mom, when I was a kid, when I was going, or a baby, I think I, when I was first born, I had to have a lot of surgeries to live. And my mom was in the hospital with me for months and months at a time. And she saw a psychic who told her that she sees me as an old woman one day. And I've always kind of like held that in my pocket a little bit and been like, okay, well, I, I have some shit to go through for sure. This world has, has some pretty rough plans for me, but I do think that. That I will be here for a while.

• 49:01Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I think it's also because I can very much envision you as an older woman. You know what I mean? Like some people I I'm like, I don't know if I can see that, but for you, like I see it like so clearly.

• 49:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  Am I cute?

• 49:15Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 49:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  Thank you.

• 49:17Danielle LaRock?

  You're welcome.

• 49:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's all I needed.

• 49:19Danielle LaRock?

  Me and that psychic, we we we know.

• 49:23Danielle LaRock?

  Anyway.

• 49:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  I would really appreciate if you would hang for a while, too.

• 49:27Danielle LaRock?

  I've freaking trying.

• 49:30Danielle LaRock?

  Doing my best.

• 49:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  I would really appreciate if you, I know you have other worldly aspir- aspirations, but I would appreciate if you stayed in this one for quite a while.

• 49:40Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, yeah. I have commitments here and I do follow through with my commitments, so lucky for you.

• 49:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  Lucky for me.

• 49:48Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. Anyway, my last story is titled Fear and Adventure in Widowhood. I'm a relatively new listener. The first episode I listened to was the one on Portugal and I've been hooked ever since. I love hearing all the stories you guys share and getting to learn so much about the things no one else tells you about. I also think it's really fun to hear listeners' trail tales. I didn't really think that I had any to share until today, when a conversation with my husband, Josh, last night sparked something. Eight years ago, I was in a very different place in life. I was married previously and in September of two thousand and sixteen, I found myself a widow at thirty one years old. My late husband, Mike, passed tragically in a motorcycle accident at thirty six.

• 50:31Danielle LaRock?

  That first year was a dark place I never knew I could find myself in. I had never been scared of trying new things, but anxiety found its way into my life in lots of ways and even some that I still deal with today. Josh had asked me last night if I ever still think of Mike, and while I do, it's usually in stories that come up here and there. While listening to NPAD this morning on the way to work, it made me think of one that happened just over a year after Mike died. So back to the being scared of trying new things thing. Some good friends of mine love kayaking rivers. I did not grow up in or around water. I mostly grew up in the desert, so this was definitely new and now. Sounded very scary. They convinced me to join them on the Nantahala River in North Carolina.

• 51:16Danielle LaRock?

  And for some reason, I said yes. So, early morning in late September, we drove up and started our trip. One double ducky for me and my friend Kim and five kayakers, her husband Jason, their son Gavin, and three other friends. I started off a little rough. Gavin quickly went swimming and did not want to continue on. Kim and I dumped out also to make sure that he was safe and took a good 10 minutes to convince him to get back in his kayak so we could continue on. There was no choice as we were on the bank of a river with nowhere to go but down. We finally got everyone back in and continued on. The rest of the first half of the trip was beautiful and had relatively gentle waters. We stopped at a riverside pizza place and enjoyed lunch as well as some much-needed break time before finishing up the route.

• 51:59Danielle LaRock?

  Gavin decided he didn't want to go on any further and Kim was gonna stay with him, which meant I would most likely have to venture down the river in the ducky by myself. That was not going to happen. I was still having fun, but only because Kim was with me and knew what she was doing. So I was out. Even though I felt like that was the right decision, I was still disappointed to not complete the route that day. But then we realized we had to turn the ducky in at the end. So Jason decided he would leave his kayak with Kim and Jason and take the ducky down and offered to have me go with him so I could finish the river. Yes, off we went. The final part of this river route is a class three rapid that can definitely turn your boat over and off you swim.

• 52:37Danielle LaRock?

  As we were getting close to it, Jason started giving me more direct tasks of where we were going to go over the rapid and how to paddle through it. You can hear the water getting louder and louder and see lots of people standing off to the side, watching others go over the rapids. And also people watching to help you get out if you needed it. I felt the nerves growing, but also the excitement. Before I could really get caught up in my head, we were going through the rapids and over we went. And no swimming for me. It was one of the most exciting things I had ever done and I just kept thinking, I did it. That moment changed things for me as I continued to move through my grief of losing Mike and the buildup of self-confidence from that moment. And that trip has stayed with me ever since. While I definitely went through years of anxiety.

• 53:20Danielle LaRock?

  Anxiety issues related back to losing Mike. I have worked really hard to find the girl who got lost in all of that and that sense of adventure. In all of that work, I found Josh, not only someone who has always supported anything and anyone from my past life, but someone who was always ready for an adventure and has continued to help me find that part of me that I feel like I lost years ago. I'm sure it's no coincidence that he was a prior raft guide himself. And while we haven't gotten on a river together yet, we spend a lot of time in our own backyard with our two boys playing in our creek. Thank you for allowing a space to share and hear stories from everywhere and everyone. I hope you know that you make a difference. So enjoy the view, but watch your back and don't let the fear of something new stop you. Allison.

• 54:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  I love that story.

• 54:06Danielle LaRock?

  Me too.

• 54:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  That was really fun. And it kind of the whole time I was reminiscing on some like whitewater stories that we have had too. And it's just, there's, it's a fun adventure and it's, it's different if you're, if you're, if it's not something that you normally do.

• 54:21Danielle LaRock?

  When we were in Banff, do you remember what class that was? Two?

• 54:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, or class three, I think.

• 54:29Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I'm try, I'm trying to like mentally see what she was seeing, but especially for someone who's never done that. And then all of a sudden it's like, we're going.

• 54:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like, you're in it now.

• 54:39Danielle LaRock?

  But yeah, I don't know. I like the sentiment of that. And you know, just because I can personally relate to that too. And like trying to find yourself again after a loss or a big change or some, some trauma that you may have experienced and trying to like, you're never going to get back because like you're not that person before you're, or anymore, you're changed. But like trying to like rebuild and get.

• 55:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  And find your new, yeah, the new person that you are.

• 55:06Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. And it takes a lot of friggin work. So I really appreciated the way that she worded that. And good for her.

• 55:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, thank you everyone for hanging out. Yeah, that was it. Those are all our stories for today, except we do have two additional ones that we will have on our outsiders only on Apple subscribers or Patreon. So you can hang out with us there. My story is titled Caught With My Pants Down.

• 55:31Danielle LaRock?

  And mine is titled Bears Are Just Big Dogs, Right?

• 55:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  Right.

• 55:36Danielle LaRock?

  Right, maybe. We'll see.

• 55:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Thank you everyone for tuning in. We will see you next time. In the meantime, enjoy the view.

• 55:42Danielle LaRock?

  But watch your back.

• 55:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bye, everyone.

• 55:44Danielle LaRock?

  Bye. Thank you for joining us again this week. If you have a trail tale of your own you'd like to share, you can write to us at [email protected] or visit our website at npadpodcast.com. Bonus trail tales and content are available to Patreon members and Apple subscribers. Follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and X at National Park After Dark. And if you prefer to watch our episodes, you can find us on YouTube at National Park After Dark. And as always, if you enjoyed the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

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