Julie Piatt On Sacred Commerce & SriMu

Today the wise & ethereal Julie Piatt -- my wife and partner for the last 20+ years -- returns for her umpteenth appearance on the podcast. But this time we try something different. As longtime listeners know well, Julie is a being of many talents. Although widely lauded for her series of bestselling plant-based cookbooks, the one who goes by SriMati is also an artist, musician, yogi, healer, mother of four and serial entrepreneur. In addition, Julie hosts the For The Life of Me podcast. She reigns over Water Tiger, her online spiritual community. And she’s the ‘Mother Arc’ (her term for founder & CEO) of SriMu, her plant-based cheese brainchild start-up. Over the years, Julie been a recurring source of spiritual wisdom on the podcast, dropping many a pearl on everything from parenting and creativity to navigating conflict, managing relationships, dealing with financial hardship, and countless other subjects. Today's episode, however, is something new -- an exploration of Julie as entrepreneur. Channeling my inner Guy Raz, I give Julie the ‘How I Built This’ treatment — tracing her background growing up in Alaska through her career in fashion. Building a garment line. The pain of shuttering it. The pivot into home construction and interior design. And how all of these experiences inform the business and culture of SriMu, her most successful start-up to date. You can call me biased. I am. But that doesn’t change the fact that she is poised for world domination with what truly is the best, next evolution of cheese. The visually inclined can watch our exchange on YouTube. And as always, the podcast streams wild and free on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Aside from the business bent, this conversation is centered on the power of meeting others — and yourself — in love. As humans, we self-identify with the stories we tell ourselves. We cling to illusions of safety and security. But this moment is challenging the firmness of the ground upon which we stand. Julie reminds us of the impermanence of everything. Embracing this vital truth will bring you greater peace. It will broaden your empathy for others. And help you identify the answers you seek. Hint: they have been inside you all along. Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

  It's kind of an amazing thing. For listeners of the show, all you special people, we're offering an exclusive $20 off an annual subscription right now. To get it, go to meals.richroll.com, take your quick personalization quiz, and enter promo code RICHROLL20 at checkout.

• 1:05Julie Piatt?

  I think what we learn as designers, or painters, or fashion designers, or writers, is you get to a level of maturity where you understand that less is more. In fact, it's the simplicity that makes something extraordinary. And so if my recipes stand for anything, they stand for the ability to be simply showcasing what Mother Nature provides with some alchemy, and design, and flair, and definitely taste. But it's really in the simplicity of what is done and trying to preserve purity in the product. We have the power to create our own reality during this time. And remembering that thoughts are things, and what you put your attention on is what you put energy to.

• 1:50Julie Piatt?

  And so I believe in all of us. I believe in humanity. Humans are innovative. We are empathic. We are devoted. We are capable. We are genius. Everybody has a genius within themselves. And so I want to encourage everybody to rise up and go within and understand that you're needed, and you have something of value to share, and we need you.

• 2:15Rich Roll?

  That's Julie Piatt, and this is episode 551 of the Rich Roll Podcast.

• 2:31Rich Roll?

  The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the show. Really quick, most of you guys know just how dramatically the power of plants has given me this phoenix-like life transformation. And part of my whole deal is this commitment to helping others have their version of my experience. I get it, Rich. You're plant-based. That's awesome. But I just don't have the time. I lack the support. I'm all thumbs in the kitchen. Over the years, I've heard it all too many times. So we decided to remove the resistance, to banish all the excuses by creating this convenient and affordable, super dope, digital platform that takes all the guesswork out

• 3:16Rich Roll?

  of eating right, so you can, once and for all, adopt the healthy habits you deserve and sustain them over the long haul, which, let's face it, that's the key. For just $1.90 a week, the Plant Power Meal Planner provides unlimited access to thousands of constantly updated, nutritious, delicious, and easy to prepare recipes tailored to all your unique and peculiar preferences and peccadilloes. Selected meals auto-generate grocery lists to make shopping simple, and integrated grocery delivery in most urban areas makes it a no-brainer. We also have cooking instructional videos, and our team of nutrition coaches are always available to guide you every step of the way. To learn more and to get

• 3:57Rich Roll?

  rolling, visit meals.richroll.com. That's meals.richroll.com.

• 4:13Rich Roll?

  Okay. Today, the always wise, the luminescent, the ethereal Julie Piatt, aka Shrimati, my wife and partner for the last 20 years, returns for her 10-zillionth appearance on the podcast. Longtime listeners know Julie well. For those new to me and the show, Julie is... Just one of those people you can't quite categorize because she does so many things. She's an artist, a musician, yogi, healer, plant-based chef, multiple bestselling cookbook author, mother to four kids. She also hosts the For the Life of Me podcast.

• 4:53Rich Roll?

  She lords over Water Tiger, her online spiritual community, and she's the founder and quote, unquote, "mother arc," her term for founder and CEO, of Shrimu, her plant-based cheese brainchild startup. Over the years, Julie's been a reliable source of spiritual wisdom on the podcast, dropping many a pearl on everything from parenting and creativity to navigating conflict, managing relationships, dealing with financial hardship, and countless other subjects. And we do a bit of that today, but this one is different. After opening with some, I think, quite relatable thoughts on the mental and emotional impact of the

• 5:38Rich Roll?

  pandemic on our home life, and some rumination on this moment of immense transformation, we then switch gears. Most of you likely know Julie as either a sort of yogi, spiritualist, or as a cookbook author. What you likely don't know is that she is quite the serial entrepreneur. So the gravamen of today's conversation is really focused on Julie, the businessperson. Call it my stab at giving her the Guy Raz "How I Built That" treatment. We trace her background, growing up in Alaska, through her career in fashion, creating her own garment line, later pivoting into home construction, interior design, and culminating

• 6:22Rich Roll?

  in how she became this doyen of plant-based cheese by dint of her most successful startup to date, Shrimu. You can call me biased. I certainly am biased, but that does not change the fact that she is poised for world domination with what truly is the best next evolution of cheese. Aside from the business bent, more than anything, I think this conversation is centered around the power of meeting others and yourself in love. As humans, we cling to illusions of safety and security. We cling to the stories we tell ourselves, stories

• 7:03Rich Roll?

  that the pandemic is shattering. And Julie really helped remind me of the impermanence of everything and how embracing this vital truth will bring you greater peace, greater understanding, and help you find the answers you're looking for, which have been inside you all along. So this is me and my in-house spiritual guru, partner, and best friend, Julie Piatt. Julie Piatt, how long has it been since we've done a podcast?

• 7:38Julie Piatt?

  It's been, I think, six months, ritual.

• 7:41Rich Roll?

  Has it been that long?

• 7:42Julie Piatt?

  I think so. Aren't we in quarantine six months now?

• 7:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but did we do one at the beginning of quarantine?

• 7:46Julie Piatt?

  Right at the beginning.

• 7:47Rich Roll?

  Oh, we did.

• 7:48Julie Piatt?

  I want to say it was maybe like five days in.

• 7:50Rich Roll?

  This might be the longest that we've gone without

• 7:53Julie Piatt?

  I've missed you.

• 7:54Rich Roll?

  A check-in. I mean, since the beginning of the podcast, you being on episode one and on every initial episode, we've always done a podcast here and there every couple months or so. So this might be the longest interlude.

• 8:10Julie Piatt?

  But now you have another lover that you're doing your Q and As with.

• 8:14Rich Roll?

  With Adam?

• 8:15Julie Piatt?

  Yes.

• 8:16Rich Roll?

  Yes, the roll-ons.

• 8:17Julie Piatt?

  It's amazing. It's really, really good.

• 8:19Rich Roll?

  Well, it's nice to see you.

• 8:20Julie Piatt?

  Thank you, honey.

• 8:21Rich Roll?

  We could use this as a referendum on our marriage. How do you think our marriage is doing right now?

• 8:26Julie Piatt?

  It's holding up.

• 8:27Rich Roll?

  Is it?

• 8:28Julie Piatt?

  Definitely.

• 8:29Rich Roll?

  Yeah. We're six months into quarantine. It's been an interesting ride. It's had its high highs and low lows and everything in between, I suppose. I think that I

• 8:41Rich Roll?

  I've had more emotional peaks and valleys with it than you have. You seem pretty consistent.

• 8:46Julie Piatt?

  Well, consistent unless I'm on the frequency of our teenage daughters.

• 8:52Rich Roll?

  Right. Well, that's been the challenge. The biggest challenge of this for us and our family really has been trying to help our daughters navigate the vicissitudes of what's being thrown at us.

• 9:04Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, or how to realize that our daughters don't want our help in navigating what's going on in quarantine. But it's been really unprecedented, and I think this is a global issue. We were teasing last night about, my son was saying, if every parent of a teen could do some documentary footage and it could be called quarantine.

• 9:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 9:26Julie Piatt?

  So it's been trying for everyone. And I know, I'm checking in with our pediatrician. He's seen levels of anxiety that are unprecedented in our teenage population.

• 9:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, we, you know, for people that don't know, or if you're new to the show, there's six of us cohabitating right now, two older boys, 25 and 24, Tyler and Trapper, who moved home at the beginning of quarantine from their apartment in Echo Park, which is kind of in the Hollywood area, and then our daughters who are 13 and 16. And overall, it's been a delight to have everybody at home, really precious family time. And I always try to keep that in the forefront of my consciousness and my awareness. But it's been really hard for the girls. And also, you know, just bearing witness to the difficulties that a lot of our friends are having with their kids. And it's really, you know, I feel

• 10:24Rich Roll?

  like the emotional mental impact of this on young people is really not fully addressed in the grand scheme of trying to get through this in a healthy way. Like, yes, we don't want to get the virus. Yes, we need to. Do all the things and be safe and protect our children. But there's also a cost to all of this. And we're seeing that cost being borne out. And it will be interesting to see the long term implications on this generation, this young generation, and how this experience impacts decisions that they make and choices that they make later in life.

• 11:03Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, definitely. And I think it's, you know, like you said, I've been pretty consistent. And, you know, there's many things about quarantine that I actually prefer. I prefer being at home with my family and creating meals together and, you know, having time to reflect and slow down. And I think that quarantine provides sort of like an Ayurvedic prescriptive healing experience for us. And I do really believe overall that many of us, if we are the ones that don't choose to exit or leave the body, you know, for various reasons during this time, that we will have gained years onto our life because of the slowing down.

• 11:47Julie Piatt?

  You know, we see these benefits to the planet, to the air, to the waters. And yet, you know, we have the perspective of having lived a very full life behind us. We've experienced many things in our lives. And even our sons who are in their twenties, you know, it's very hard to imagine how they must feel, you know, reflecting on what their future is going to be life, what's going to be available to them. And it's hard for us to really imagine what all these conditions present in the psyche of a teen, of a young child. And, you know, just recently, one of our daughters, she was, she's very concerned.

• 12:30Julie Piatt?

  You know, she was basically telling us we needed to move, that we were not safe. And, you know, this is a very real emotional.

• 12:41Julie Piatt?

  State that children are experiencing that we're all experiencing in different ways.

• 12:45Rich Roll?

  Yeah, the mental emotional fallout is very real and you know, at least with respect to our 16 year old daughter, she's not interested in any prescription coming from us. Right. She's trying to craft her own identity in contradiction to us. Like she's trying to figure out who she is by pushing the boundaries of, you know, kind of our lifestyle parameters. And part of that's healthy because that's how she figures out who she is. But also it makes it challenging when we're all cohabitating and we're trying to be helpful to her and she's resistant to hearing anything from us.

• 13:22Julie Piatt?

  That's right. Well, it's healthy for her and very challenging for us, trying for us. But, but there are beautiful moments within that journey and, and I find the energy going up and down a lot more rapidly. Like within a week span, there's a lot of different colors of experience that I'm having within the family. And I think, you know, the beauty is being able to go on that journey and just be present in the moment to what's happening. So, you know, sometimes there's a lot of screaming and tears and, you know, bumping up against rough edges and then other times.

• 13:57Rich Roll?

  Doors slamming.

• 13:57Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, there is a lot of sweetness though, too, and moments that are just stolen that never would have happened if we weren't sequestered, if we weren't quarantined. So there are a lot of treasures that are available to us. It's a, it's an intense time for sure.

• 14:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah. You know, I, I vacillate between being totally fine with the whole thing and despairing. Like I miss the travel. I miss being able to, you know, plan adventures and have things to look forward to on the calendar. And when one day just bleeds into the next, everything starts to feel a little bit mundane and that's when I get into a funk. But you really are able to surf it more gracefully than, than I do. And I suspect a lot of that has to do with your own spiritual practice and these kind of rituals that you've set up. Like you get up at three or four in the morning and you do a fire ceremony and then you're out, we have an outdoor tub and you're out in the bathtub under the star.

• 14:58Rich Roll?

  You do a lot. Like before anybody else wakes up in the morning, you've already lived like an entire day.

• 15:04Julie Piatt?

  It's true. I mean, those are, for me, I don't know where I would be if I didn't have my deep connection to my faith and the spiritual perspective of what is going on. I don't know how I would feel without that. It has been really a treasure of connection to understand that there is a greater plan, that this is a moment of immense transformation and believing and living in the awareness that we incarnate for this purpose. Like,

• 15:44Julie Piatt?

  we all chose to come into a body during this time, at this unprecedented moment, and what the opportunity is to participate in evolution and also creating a brighter world, a higher vibrating experience for humanity, for animals, for the planet, and even beyond this realm.

• 16:07Rich Roll?

  So how do you remain grounded in that conviction when you open up your phone and start scrolling through, you know, the various versions of vitriol and dissonance and discontent and argument that seems to be kind of the touchdown of 2020, especially as we, you know, near this election and with the fires that we've been dealing, like, there's so much upheaval right now across the world. And it's easy to say, well, this is a moment of transformation and this is an opportunity. But I just know for myself, like, exposing myself to too much of that really starts to become disheartening to me.

• 16:49Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, but that's true. And so there's a lot of it, right? Like unprecedented darkness being revealed in all areas of our life. And what I think this does is it starts to communicate to us that We've been living in illusion. We were maybe thinking that we were living a different life than what we really were living. So in my awareness, it's sort of like the light goes on and you're seeing everything scurrying around. But it was always there. It's not like it just is existing now. It's sort of like the result of our collective actions, of the aspects of what it means to incarnate in Planet Earth with all of its polarity

• 17:34Julie Piatt?

  and all of its contrast. And so it's sort of revealing the truth of what is. And I think the opportunity is to understand that everything is being gaslit. Every single perspective that is being presented has the potential to have been manipulated. And so what do we do with that?

• 17:54Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's really hard to find your footing.

• 17:56Julie Piatt?

  Yeah. You know, who can you trust? What channel are you going to trust? What person are you going to trust? And in my spiritual journey of my life, it has led me to know that we can only trust our true inner compass, which is our own heart. And how do we know how to trust our own heart? We have to spend time in communion with our own life form, our own direct connection to Source. And for me, and for many of us, this will come in as a feeling tone in the body. So we have to train ourselves to understand that just because somebody writes something, or because somebody says something, doesn't make it

• 18:36Julie Piatt?

  so. And we are very expansive technologies, the human being, and we have more senses than five senses. And so this is giving us an opportunity to really feel into situations. And being in touch with your body gives you the connection. Your supreme intelligence is in your heart, not in your mind. It's not your intellect, it's your feeling. And we're going to have to develop this ability to trust what is right for us.

• 19:07Rich Roll?

  Well, that's a practice. I mean, I think there, you know, and that's something that you have, you know, developed over many years by virtue of the things that you do. I feel like most people are pretty disconnected from who they are and they're living their lives reactively. And that makes them very prone to manipulation and just sort of responding to whatever they see in their Twitter feed and then adopting that philosophy and regurgitating it without really spending that time to reflect on the veracity of it, or to develop that sense of interconnectedness with oneself to have

• 19:49Rich Roll?

  the acumen to understand whether that is resonating with you on a fundamental, very real way, or whether it's just some idea that you picked up in the atmosphere somewhere and decided to repeat.

• 20:01Julie Piatt?

  Right, it's true. But we have to begin now. And so for me, what's happening on the planet are things that I've been aware of for many years. And I've been the crazy person who has this perspective. But the gift of this is now we can really start to look at what is. So we can really see that in our society, there are a lot of forces that are not operating for the benefit of humanity. They are not what I would call life-affirming agendas or intentions. And so it's about reclaiming our own power, understanding just how powerful the human being is who knows itself, who actually has a connection

• 20:42Julie Piatt?

  to Source. And this goes back to developing a yoga practice, starting to sit with yourself, going off of Twitter, connecting with nature, starting to feel how you could cultivate loving compassion in every situation. How could you start to perceive all of life as sacred, starting with yourself, which is very challenging, because we have a lot of judgments about ourselves, our bodies. I would say the internal dialogue of the average human, or most humans, is one of not kind communication. So we're usually telling our

• 21:25Julie Piatt?

  body, like, "We wish you weren't like that. We wish you were different." There's a lot of self-judgment. And so one of the techniques that I use, and that I have used, and I use with my clients and my spiritual community, Water Tiger, is we do mirror work. And so you actually sit in the mirror. Breathing and gazing into your eyes and a lot of stuff comes up when you you engage in that practice.

• 21:52Rich Roll?

  Kamal Ravikant talked about that when he was on the podcast. That's like a core aspect of his love yourself, you know, program.

• 21:59Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, I think it might be one of the most powerful and one of the ones that is the most confrontational for most people. So to actually look at what is, is a very powerful practice and technique. And in the beginning, you may feel all kinds of emotions. You know, a lot of people cry. They see relatives who have been deceased. But after a while, after you get through the discomfort, you can start to really look at yourself in the truth of who you are and start to receive yourself as sacred, as something that's divine, that is alive for a purpose.

• 22:41Julie Piatt?

  And that is loved and valued by creation, you know, infinitely and eternally. And so it's a powerful, powerful means and one I recommend. And hopefully everybody listening to this podcast has a mirror and you can go meet yourself in the mirror.

• 22:57Rich Roll?

  And what does that practice look like specifically?

• 22:59Julie Piatt?

  Well, you should be in a private area, you know, where you can be with yourself.

• 23:04Rich Roll?

  You don't want to do it in a public bathroom?

• 23:04Julie Piatt?

  No, sometimes it's good to do it sort of at twilight or where the light is a little bit lower, to actually just sit and you would gaze into the third eye point between the eyes, relaxed and breathing, connected to your breath. And attempt to keep your eyes open. You won't be able to, your eyes will burn and you'll need to blink them. But at least, you know, intend to keep the eyes open and soften the gaze in that area and see what comes up for you. And so I recommend starting off with maybe five minutes and then maybe increase that

• 23:42Julie Piatt?

  to 10 minutes and maybe journal and really observe and reflect on the emotions, you know, get in touch with how you're feeling about your physical self.

• 23:54Rich Roll?

  So the first stage is really developing an understanding of what is looping in your mind, right? Like first, you have to be able to be objective about what that is before you can start to deconstruct it and, and, you know, construct a new narrative.

• 24:08Julie Piatt?

  Yeah. And, and also what emotions are you feeling? What does that bring up for you? You know, what are the memories or the feelings or the attitudes or thoughts that come up for you when you sit and really receive yourself? And how does that look?

• 24:23Rich Roll?

  There's a kernel of Zen Buddhism to this. And by that, I mean, the idea that the best way for you to be a force of positive good in the world is to reflect inward and focus on developing, you know, the best version of who you can possibly be, right? How do you square that with a sense or a call to take a stand on an issue? Or a feeling that, you know, this is a moment where we can't be quiet and we need to exert ourselves or have our voices be heard on some of these issues that culture is grappling with right now? Because those are two different things.

• 25:06Julie Piatt?

  Right. I mean, by this practice, I'm not suggesting that we all go to the mirror and all of our problems will be solved and...

• 25:12Rich Roll?

  Right. It's like being in the cave versus being in the world.

• 25:15Julie Piatt?

  No, no. So I think this is a really amazing opportunity for us to stop doing this human tendency, which wants to choose one way. So we want to say this or that. What I'm going to say is this time is asking us to say yes and both. So both. So what these practices do, this practice of mirror gazing, or I would highly recommend a yoga practice for everyone and anyone in any form you can get it. The practice of yoga will bring you into communion with the observer that is watching you in your life. And it will allow you to use the asanas, the practices, and also meditation to be in

• 26:00Julie Piatt?

  stillness into this place of neutrality, which is neutral, loving compassion. One thing that's confusing for us is a lot of times when we're a human who is in the doing, we reflect on the being-ness as being irresponsible or opting out or hiding in the cave.

• 26:18Rich Roll?

  Or unproductive.

• 26:19Julie Piatt?

  Right, or unproductive. But what we're saying is that... If you can be in neutral, loving compassion, which I always talk about being the Jedi. So you're in the Jedi. So you're merged with your awareness of source. But a lot of stuff can be happening from that state of awareness. So you can go to a protest in that state of awareness. You can express yourself. You can stand up and speak out for what you care about. But the ground of that is in a great vast anchoring of the nature of life, the totality of life. And this brings a point that I wanted to bring up that has really been present for me

• 27:01Julie Piatt?

  and is present for me in these alchemical fire ceremonies that I light in the middle of the night and different practices that I engage in. And that is the aspect of the mystery of life. So we will never know the totality of life, of the choices that are made, of why certain souls choose different times to exit. You know, you just never know. You and I are having this conversation. You know, I could leave my body after this interview when I'm driving home. We don't know. No one has the capacity to know that. And so for me, there is great power in developing a reverence for the mystery of life,

• 27:45Julie Piatt?

  for understanding that everything is so fragile. It's not, it's not within my personality's choice to know what the highest outcome is. I can't see the vast play from the area of source or the vantage point of consciousness. So there is a reverence. There is a devotion. And there's a giving over to that great mystery of life. And in that devotion and that commitment and returning to that communication over and over and over again, it provides a connection to something that is miraculous, that is beyond the solutions that we see in our culture today. There's always a wild card.

• 28:29Julie Piatt?

  There's always the miracle, the miraculous. And that is what I count on.

• 28:37Rich Roll?

  See, what I think I do, and what I think most humans do, is I keep the fear at bay by trusting in structures and diluting myself into this idea that certain things have a permanence that they actually don't, right? Like, we live in a democracy, and this is the way the world works, and this is what I do, and this is where I fit in, and with all of that, I feel safe and I can sleep at night. And what you're suggesting is to understand and step into a greater awareness of the Maya of all of that, right? Like, these are all just mental constructs that we fabricate in our minds to make us

• 29:20Rich Roll?

  feel okay, but in truth, none of them are real. They're social contracts at best, and what we're seeing right now is a great kind of deconstruction and dismantling that's occurring, you know, in many different ways all across the globe. And that's fomenting a lot of fear because it's challenging people's ideas around the permanence of things and the fragility of not just our own corporal, physical bodies with respect, you know, vis a vis to this virus, but the planet's fragility in light of, you know, how humans have tread on it over the last couple hundred years, puts us all in a delicate headspace that makes us trigger happy when we open up our Twitter feeds, right?

• 30:05Rich Roll?

  Like, we're like, ready to pounce because we're not even consciously aware of the extent of the kind of fear that is created by that level of uncertainty, the growing awareness around that uncertainty.

• 30:20Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, well, I mean, what we're really avoiding is death, right? I mean, ultimately, it all leads back to fear of death. That's where the treasure is, right there. And so the best thing that we could do is go face our death. Get clear with that. Get as close to that as you can. Imagine what that is. Face it, sit with it, commune with it. And again, these structures are really super helpful and also necessary in this life. Like, it wouldn't be okay if we just ignored what was going on and laid on the couch and said, "Well, whatever. I don't like seeing humanity suffer. I want us to suffer less. I want there to be more love in the world.

• 31:02Julie Piatt?

  I'm gonna do everything that I can to at least feed the lesser of the evils, to try to break the fall as much as I can." Because I am a modern woman. I'm a mother, I'm a wife, I'm a business owner. You know, I'm in this world. I'm not in a cave on a mountain. I'm here. I'm here in the culture. But what I would say is that I feel that on social media and in the community, and energetically, there is an agenda to separate us and tear us apart. I have family members that voted for Trump. I am not an advocate of him or the energy that he represents. That might get me in trouble on your show. I don't know.

• 31:47Julie Piatt?

  But I have no problem saying that.

• 31:49Rich Roll?

  People are gonna come out.

• 31:50Julie Piatt?

  They're gonna come after me now. But what I will say is that I love these family members. And I have to find a way to respect their perspective, to meet them in some form of love, some form of kindness, some form of curiosity, so that I can understand why they had that perspective. We were talking about, we knew an individual who became a flat-earther. And you know, this individual, you know, we have known him to be a kind and loving and meaningful member of our community. And so while I don't adhere to that, and

• 32:32Julie Piatt?

  that seems rather ridiculous to me, why is the response so aggressive and so canceling? It's the cancel culture. You know, whatever you say, you know, you're afraid to say anything because if you say something, then somebody will find some position that then cancels that perspective. And what I'm saying, as a spiritually devoted person, what I know is that life is diverse and there are billions of perspectives, not only in our cultures, but in the universes and the multiverses. And so it's unintelligent to cancel another

• 33:08Julie Piatt?

  perspective. That is not a life-affirming energy or position, or I guess emotion. So what I think would be very, very healing for us as a culture would be to be in awe and wonder and to ask people, how did you get to that perspective? And what are your life experiences? And what do you fear? And what do you love in life? And what have you suffered from? You know, why did you make that choice?

• 33:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, I think the kind of compassionate, healthy response to somebody who's offering, you know, an opinion or a worldview with which you disagree with is to say, tell me more, right? Like, you know, how can I engage that person from a perspective of really genuinely trying to understand not just that idea, but what led them to that idea is always a better tactic than attacking. But I think to play devil's advocate a little bit, because everything feels so fractured right now, there is

• 34:14Rich Roll?

  At least, and I'm speaking only for myself, but I'm witnessing this more broadly. There's this desire to figure out where solid ground is. And when somebody is, you know, out there advocating for something that's so patently and blatantly and obviously counter to the truth, the vigorous reaction to that, I think, comes from a place of, you know, a desire that like, truth matters, facts matter. And in this world where everybody's screaming at each other, like, it is important what's real and what isn't. And we need to be able to come together and agree on a certain, you know,

• 34:53Julie Piatt?

  A certain realness.

• 34:54Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Because otherwise, we're lost. So that's my respect. This is an argument that we've had. And you're like, well, let's just, everybody has their own, everybody's right from their own perspective. And I'm like, okay, but, you know, the earth is not flat. And so why are we giving that person as much credence as the person who says, no, the world is not flat?

• 35:14Julie Piatt?

  Well, we're maybe not, but maybe we're-

• 35:16Rich Roll?

  You know, we shouldn't be doing that.

• 35:17Julie Piatt?

  But maybe we're just not being unkind or canceling-

• 35:21Rich Roll?

  Okay, I grant you that.

• 35:22Julie Piatt?

  Or violent against that life form.

• 35:24Rich Roll?

  That individual need not be canceled and eradicated from society. But, you know, perhaps they could be better educated about what's going on.

• 35:32Julie Piatt?

  Maybe loved into another perspective. And it's kind of, it's kind of similar how we are with plant-based eating is, you know, we've created, I've created almost 500 recipes in the plant-based world. And, you know, I have a lot of friends that are not plant-based. And I don't come at them with judgment or preaching to them or, you know, showing them pictures of violence. I just be loving and keep cooking amazing foods and keep making amazing, you know, cheese. So my point is, is it's feeling very much like, in our culture- We have different views about different things and there's a lot of very intense things going on right now. Like, we should all be very paying attention right now. It

• 36:17Julie Piatt?

  is not a moment to go to sleep.

• 36:20Rich Roll?

  Right, but it's also not a time to be reactive and out of balance. It's a time to really cultivate that inner Jedi warrior.

• 36:28Julie Piatt?

  Well, and then the danger of that is that we've gone on social media and posted a bunch of things and, you know, and commented and said all this stuff. And then we feel within ourselves that we've done this great, you know, public service. But the question is, have you really? You know, like, what is really going on on social media? Who are we actually really connecting with? You know, who is agreeing with you? Do you even know the quality of that life form that thinks you're so amazing? And so it's a very kind of crazy world that we're in. And you and I are, you know, products of that. And, you know, I have a community, a spiritual community, Water Tiger, which I got completely through social media. And we do have a subscription community where we go deeper and discuss

• 37:13Julie Piatt?

  these kind of things. But, you know, overall, I'm sure like many, like most of us, I have very mixed emotions about the whole platform of social media. And is it really helping us? I kind of feel like I'm gambling and thinking I'm winning and I'm probably not winning.

• 37:28Rich Roll?

  Of course not. Well, we both watched The Social Dilemma and, you know, people that watch or listen to this podcast, now that I just did a whole podcast with Adam Skolnik, where we kind of broke down that movie and shared our perspectives. But yeah, it's disturbing and disheartening when you pull back the curtain and you have a better understanding of how these platforms function and operate, the extent to which, you know, we are the product and we are being mined and manipulated to such a vast extent. And at the same time, both you and I have cultivated and crafted careers that support our family as a result of these platforms. So it's not necessarily a black or white thing, but it

• 38:10Rich Roll?

  does, you know, that movie has really reshaped the relationship that I want to have with these platforms. And, you know, you've been saying this forever, but... I'm more mindful of this now than ever, this idea that like when you have an instinct to share something, it's like, okay, why am I doing this? For what purpose? Like, what is the, what is the greater good? Or what is the aspiration behind doing this? Like, what is the why behind why you feel compelled to put something up on one of these platforms?

• 38:38Julie Piatt?

  Yeah. And I mean, maybe I need to be a little bit more like you because I'm quite sensitive and, you know, go into darkness to find my connection in the middle of the night. And there's a lot of times I'm supposed to post content. I just can't do it. Like, it's not in my body. I can't, I've tried to get on like a schedule so that I'm consistent.

• 38:58Rich Roll?

  I've never done that.

• 39:00Julie Piatt?

  You've been such an amazing consistent, but I mean, with your podcast.

• 39:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but now, like, I really just, I use it to share new episodes of the podcast. It's pretty rare that I use it for anything other than that. And unless I just feel, I wake up and I feel like, oh, I have something cool that might be helpful that I feel, I feel good and I feel like sharing it. But I don't feel compelled to just be, you know, sharing my life all the time on there.

• 39:24Julie Piatt?

  It's changed. I mean, you were in the early days, but not now. Yeah. So, and the other thing is, is it's not just that we've built, you know, a career. We have thousands of people that we have had deep, meaningful life experiences through. So, social media for you and me has not been a light thing. It's been a very deep thing.

• 39:45Rich Roll?

  And I've met incredible people as a result of it. And a lot of the guests that I've gotten on the podcast, I've been able to do that because of social media. So, it's tricky.

• 39:55Julie Piatt?

  It's tricky, but, you know, I think now, you know, that we have a greater perspective, you know, it's up to us to choose to use the tool and make sure that we're not being used by the tool. So it's

• 40:08Rich Roll?

  Well, we're being used by it no matter what. If you're using it, you're being used by it. That's the truth, right? And that's the disturbing reality.

• 40:17Julie Piatt?

  But I mean, the level or the extent.

• 40:19Rich Roll?

  Right. But I think the pernicious aspect of it is that when you think you have a healthy relationship with it, you're still not fully aware of the extent to which you're being manipulated and used by it. And that was the real message of that movie. Like, even if you think like, oh, all I do is do this, or I do, you know, that's not what's going on here.

• 40:40Julie Piatt?

  Yeah.

• 40:40Rich Roll?

  You know, it's a much darker reality. And the, you know, I just, I know for myself, the solution isn't to just, you know, basically delete all my accounts, because this is how we make a living and communicate with the world. So how do you do that in a safer and healthier way?

• 40:59Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, I don't know. I mean, a few months ago, I, I hired Ollie, a friend that had come on a Plant Power Talia retreat, and he's been creating an online platform for a subscription that wouldn't be even part of Squarespace. It would be its own sovereign technical platform. And that's not a replacement for social media, but it has been in my awareness of the fact that there may be a world in not-too-far-off future where we have our content on our own individual platforms.

• 41:33Rich Roll?

  Well, I'm in the process of putting that together as well. I mean,

• 41:36Julie Piatt?

  No way.

• 41:36Rich Roll?

  You have Water Tiger. I've teased this out. I haven't talked about it at length. But this fall, on an undisclosed date, because we're still building it right now, I'm going to be launching a subscription service. And a big part of it is for that very reason. Like, I want to take these communities, not offline, but off of these platforms where it's a safer, healthier environment for the people who are interested in the things that I care about and that I speak to on the show and beyond, to gather and commune in a way that where they're, you know, they're not being data mined and they're not being manipulated in that way.

• 42:12Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, we hope so. We hope we could create that.

• 42:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, let's take a quick break, and we'll be back with more.

• 42:31Rich Roll?

  Well, let's shift gears a little bit. We have a little bit of a show and tell here. If you're watching this on video, you can see like all this plant-based cheese here. But before we even get into the latest with Shrimu, I think one thing that gets lost in your story, as somebody who's been on this podcast a million times and is always sharing, you know, deep thoughts and, you know, these spiritual practices, is the fact that, and you alluded to it a minute ago, the fact that you're like this serial entrepreneur and always have been, like, you're a powerful businesswoman. Like, setting aside Shrimu, which we're going to get into, I mean, you had, you know, this garment line for years and years and years, like, pre-internet, where you were doing direct-to-consumer before

• 43:12Rich Roll?

  it was a thing, and you had this robust interior design business. Like, you've had a lot of chapters in your business career that have delivered you to this place to, you know, create this new venture that you're working on right now. So I thought it would be cool to share that side of you a little bit, because that, I don't know that we've really fully explored that on the podcast.

• 43:32Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, cool. Thanks for that. It's kind of interesting to hear you describe me like that. Thank you so much. I receive that.

• 43:39Rich Roll?

  You're a startup founder.

• 43:41Julie Piatt?

  I kind of am. No, I actually am.

• 43:43Rich Roll?

  You've had multiple startups.

• 43:44Julie Piatt?

  It's my main mission. Well, okay, so Rich is going to judge me because I have a business degree from an inferior university.

• 43:55Rich Roll?

  I don't have a business degree at all.

• 43:57Julie Piatt?

  But you went to really good schools. I went to Arizona State, everyone. So, and I have a business degree. I actually went there because I was frozen after having been raised in Alaska. So I think I just entered like a certain climate into this computer and it gave me these options and...

• 44:16Rich Roll?

  I'm going there. It's dry and hot.

• 44:17Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, I was like, I'm going to where the sun shines every day. And, you know, I didn't have good SAT scores or anything like that. So, anyway, I went to Arizona State. I had never been to Arizona. And within that four-year period, I also lived in France for six months, which was a phenomenal experience, where I learned to speak French fluently and created a whole community there that was amazing. But I came back and graduated from business school with a degree in international marketing. And the crazy thing is, is that my mom, so she's from Chile, and... She was from a sort of high society part of life there. And her father left her mother when she was 16 years old.

• 44:59Julie Piatt?

  And he was a healer, like I was, and moved to the South and spent his days out actually as a healer. He was very much like me and I never met him. But she would always tell me, my father would have loved you. Like, we're very alike. His name was Ernesto. So my mom really wanted me to have business nailed. She and my dad ended up marrying her-

• 45:24Rich Roll?

  Because of that instability?

• 45:25Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, that instability and the fact, you know, she then supported her mom and her sister. And she spoke English quite well. And she became a secretary. And then that's how she ended up meeting my dad eventually. And they moved to the United States.

• 45:40Rich Roll?

  He was a Texan who was down mapping the jungles.

• 45:43Julie Piatt?

  He was mapping the jungles of the Amazon. My mother was engaged to an American engineer. And this engineer drowned a month before their wedding. And my father was his replacement.

• 45:57Rich Roll?

  It's a crazy story.

• 45:58Julie Piatt?

  Crazy story. Like, somebody's got to make a movie about it someday. But anyway-

• 46:02Rich Roll?

  He's a bush pilot, hunter, fisherman from Amarillo, Texas. So it's very much a Green Acres thing. Like, he meets this kind of high society Chilean woman and takes her back. Did they go back to Texas first or Colorado?

• 46:18Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, they went to Texas first. And like, there was a big article about my mom in the paper because she was like the first-

• 46:24Rich Roll?

  It's like this exotic creature.

• 46:26Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, exotic creature that had arrived. It was sort of like, you know, they'd found the dinosaur bones or whatever. Yeah, and then they moved to Colorado. And she gave birth to five children. I'm her youngest. And I'm named for her mother. And so I'm Julie Rosado, named after Julio Rosado.

• 46:43Rich Roll?

  And your mom had a dress shop for years and years and years in Anchorage, right?

• 46:48Julie Piatt?

  30 years.

• 46:48Rich Roll?

  So is that where you first learned business?

• 46:50Julie Piatt?

  Yeah. So I went to East Anchorage High School.

• 46:56Julie Piatt?

  And my mom had a dress shop and I was way overdressed every day of high school because I would just open the boxes up and take like the best looking thing that happened to be there. So I worked with her and I would go on buying trips with her to LA. And she really wanted me to learn business. And when I got my high school transcripts, I always took like business law or real estate law.

• 47:21Rich Roll?

  You could take that in high school? I didn't have classes like that in high school.

• 47:24Julie Piatt?

  C E's Anchorage High was really amazing. You should have seen what was going on there.

• 47:29Rich Roll?

  Wow, that's quite something.

• 47:31Julie Piatt?

  So, so when I went, I realized from my high school transcripts, I had only ever taken one art class. And that was like ceramics and drawing when I was in junior high. And I, I won an award for this very not that amazing thing that I did. And then I didn't pick up an art tool again until I was like 20, in my late 20s. I had become, so I went to Arizona State, lived in Paris, then graduated. And my sister was working in the garment business. My sister Vicki.

• 48:01Rich Roll?

  In LA.

• 48:02Julie Piatt?

  In LA. And I didn't know what I was gonna do, but I had no intention of going to LA. And she introduced me to this guy named Michael Bush. And he was a garment salesperson. And he interviewed me and hired me. So I came to LA and went right to downtown to the LA Mart and started working. And he taught me how to sell. He said, this is what you do. You show the line and then you look at the buyer and you say, can I have the paper? You know, it was like you asked them very directly for the papers. So I said, okay. So we had this show and I did exactly what he asked me to do. And I handed him like $100,000 worth of business. And he was like, what did you just do? And I was like, well, I just did what you asked me to do. And so instantly,

• 48:46Julie Piatt?

  a salesperson was born. And I ended up having this amazing experience in garments. I worked for the notorious Alan Schwartz, who owned ABS, which are some of the most hilarious. And

• 48:58Rich Roll?

  He's like king of the knockoffs.

• 49:00Julie Piatt?

  Yeah. And yeah, quite, quite an extraordinary eccentric person. But

• 49:05Julie Piatt?

  You know, much sexual harassment and things going on during those years.

• 49:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it was a big, like, if that was happening, I mean, the Me Too aspect of that world is out of control.

• 49:16Julie Piatt?

  I could have sued so many people. I mean, I was locked in my showroom at different times, not by Alan. This was a different, a different boss. But anyway, so I ended up becoming the West Coast Sales Manager for Shelley Siegel, who's an amazing designer, lovely, lovely human being. She's, do you remember the actor Robbie Benson?

• 49:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 49:35Julie Piatt?

  That's her, that's his sister. So she was quite talented. She designed a line called Laundry, and Shelley used to invite me in to edit her line. She wouldn't let anybody else in. And so in my late twenties, I decided to go back to fashion design school as a professional. And I got my fashion design degree in a year. And I picked up a pencil and discovered that I had a natural talent for drawing that I never knew. And I was so bummed because I felt like I spent all of these years of my life not developing what I'm made to do. But in the end, it worked out because I had both business and creative. I was able to

• 50:17Julie Piatt?

  get up to speed creatively, you know, more quickly. So I created my own fashion line, and I took it to I. Magnin and sold it and got on the cover of their Christmas catalog. And that launched my collection, which-

• 50:30Rich Roll?

  Julie Piatt Collection.

• 50:31Julie Piatt?

  Julie Piatt Collection, right. And it hung in bridge, and I was hanging with-

• 50:35Rich Roll?

  What does that mean, "hanging in bridge"?

• 50:37Julie Piatt?

  Oh, it's, you know, it's lingo for, you know, being in the garment industry. It's basically like, it's, it's not super cheap, but it's not designer. It's like a bridge line, so it's between. And I hung with lines like Anna Sui, Mark Eisen, DK, Calvin Klein, which is called CK. So I was in this really beautiful section. And like everything, which is kind of cool that you're asking me about this, is when I create something, I usually do it pretty luxuriously. And so rather than starting with a T-shirt or something that was simple, I designed 36-piece jackets with like, crystal buttons from Austria.

• 51:15Julie Piatt?

  So when you're making that in LA, there are like 12 subcontractors that have to touch that jacket before it emerges. And so it was a very complex business that I ended up going into.

• 51:28Rich Roll?

  Well, the hilarious thing, I mean, first of all, it's worth saying, like, everyone knows you as like this cookbook author and this person who's created, you know, all these recipes, but you know, it's fascinating to hear that the roots of this are in a completely different industry. And you've told stories over the years of just how insane the fashion industry is, like, no other business would function the way that this functions. Like, you would come up with this design and you'd create the pattern, and then you'd take it to these various subcontractors and say, this is how I want it, this is how you sew it, this is how it goes. And then they would just return it to you, completely different. Like, if you say, I want A, they just give you Z, and then they look at you blankly, like, what are you, and you're like, this is not what I ordered.

• 52:12Rich Roll?

  And they're like, well, this is what it is.

• 52:14Julie Piatt?

  Oh, it's highly complex. I mean, you can't even do that. First of all, you're a small manufacturer, and so they're sewing companies that are massive. So you have to go in and develop a personal relationship with the subs to somehow convince them to sew your small lot.

• 52:28Rich Roll?

  Because it's just not worth their time.

• 52:29Julie Piatt?

  It's not worth it, yeah. So it's all personal. And if you leave them, I remember the first time, like, I lied to the buyer at iMagnet and told her that I was like, had full production facilities. I'd never produced one thing in my entire life. So I had the order, which was a good problem to have.

• 52:44Rich Roll?

  And they don't pay you ahead of time, right? Like, they're like, we want this many of this, and then it's on you to go and create it.

• 52:52Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, it's usually not 30.

• 52:53Rich Roll?

  They don't pay you until way later, if at all.

• 52:54Julie Piatt?

  Actually, if they pay you, if they pay you.

• 52:57Rich Roll?

  That's the other thing, like, they don't even pay you.

• 52:59Julie Piatt?

  No, it's crazy. And, you know, you have to watch it every step of the way. I remember being in South Central and dropping off my first lot, and I was just driving away hoping like, I hope this place doesn't start on fire, like, it's there in the morning. And you have to check in with them because... You know, if they're sewing a thousand blouses and they're sewing the left blouse, the left sleeve to the right armhole, like, that's a big problem. So you, you have to catch it before. So there's a lot, there's so much that goes into garment production, especially when you're a small person, a small manufacturer. I learned so much from that experience. And I was basically me and one part-time employee who was my pattern maker. It was, it was a lot of work that I put in.

• 53:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And you were in, you were in some of the other stores too, not just I-Magnin.

• 53:47Julie Piatt?

  No, I was in all the bridge stores. So I was in Fred Segal, Nordstrom, Barneys, Macy's, Bergdorf Goodman, I-Magnin, Saks. Like, I was legit.

• 54:00Rich Roll?

  Right. But it's a classic example. Like, you have this idea, like, oh, well, if you're in all these stores, you must be crushing it, right? And meanwhile, you're like dying.

• 54:08Julie Piatt?

  No, it took me six years, actually, to learn that all the guys, all the men that came to work in Ferraris were leveraged to the, to the hilt. Like, they actually didn't have the money to own that Ferrari. It's because-

• 54:21Rich Roll?

  It's all lifestyle presentation.

• 54:23Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, it's all like, pomp and, yeah, smoke and mirrors, sort of type thing. And I mean, some people really hit it big, but you gotta stay in, you know, go to be in, and relentless. And it never stops. Like, even, everything's old, the minute you put it in the showroom, it's old. So you have to go right back to the design board. And it's this very manic, relentless, you know, pressure of having to be innovative.

• 54:47Rich Roll?

  I remember, I remember years and years ago, there was a documentary about Isaac Mizrahi. Do you remember that documentary?

• 54:53Julie Piatt?

  I think I do.

• 54:54Rich Roll?

  And that was my introduction to kind of a glimpse behind the scenes of what the fashion industry is really like. And what I recall, it was so long ago, but I, I do remember- Being amazed at how manic it was and like you just can't breathe for a second because you're always the next line and the next line and it always has to be different and different and different. And it's incredible that anybody succeeds because it's just a recipe for burnout. Right? And the other thing I think is unique that's unique to this business and correct me if I'm wrong is that in most businesses, you can kind of just grow slowly and organically, you know, just like every year, a little bit better, a little bit better. But in fashion, you could take your line to a certain point, but you're just going

• 55:37Rich Roll?

  to be starving and manic forever unless you get a massive infusion of capital to then get over the hump and become like a Tommy Hilfiger. Right? Like that doesn't happen by increments. It only happens with like gigantic cash infusion. So it's the only way that you can grow.

• 55:56Julie Piatt?

  It really is. It's, it's very, very treacherous and requires more energy, more consistent energy and sort of this relentless mania in order to get to that place. And the reason that I made a decision to close my company.

• 56:11Rich Roll?

  Well, it's before we even get to that, you make this pivot to doing it direct to consumer.

• 56:17Julie Piatt?

  Oh yeah, let's talk about that.

• 56:18Rich Roll?

  Cause that's, I think that informs the sensibility behind Shrimu also. Like pre-internet, you know, you just decide, I'm going to circumvent all these stores and I'm just going to go right to the customer. And how do you even do that in, in an era when it's all about retail?

• 56:35Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, it was so interesting. So I just, what happened is during, okay, so I was doing Julie Piatt collection and selling all those stores. And then Priscilla Presley came to me, which is another part of my history. A friend of mine was saying like, I hope you're putting this in your book. Like I almost forget. Priscilla came to me through another producer that I knew and she asked me to co-design a line with her for home shopping network. And I really like Priscilla a lot. She's quite a beautiful woman and I really, really enjoyed her. And so I was like, okay, this is a great opportunity, you know, and I spent six months with her. We worked together diligently for about a six month period and the contracts were being drawn up.

• 57:20Julie Piatt?

  And the night before I was supposed to sign the contract, I started vomiting. And everything in my body was like, you cannot do this, this arrangement. And I called her at home and told her that I was unable to sign the agreement.

• 57:36Rich Roll?

  And the reason was, the resistance was what?

• 57:38Julie Piatt?

  The resistance was, is that she was this celebrity and I was doing all the work. It was basically like, I was gonna have to bleed, like we just talked about, right? And she was going to get all the credit. And she also had a manager that would brief me on how I should speak to her. So like, every time I would talk to her, he would call me and say, don't like, don't talk about it like that. Say it like this. And I was young and fiery and it just really made me angry that he would talk to me like that. And I just was like, it was more like that thing that I was talking about in the beginning. It was in my body. Like, my mind didn't know, because who wouldn't want to be partners with Priscilla Presley? And I liked her a lot. So my body finally got to this point, was like, uh-uh, you cannot do this.

• 58:22Julie Piatt?

  It's almost like if I had done it, it would have made me sick. And when I called her to tell her, she was just like, no, no, Julie, like, we can work it out. We can work it out. And I was like, I said to her, I said, I'm an artist. Like, I'm not interested in doing a line that you have your name on. I'm like, I'm the one that's gonna be bleeding, that's gonna be doing all this work. I was like, I wanna do it for me. And so I gave her my line free. I said, take the line, I don't want anything.

• 58:50Rich Roll?

  Did she end up selling that?

• 58:51Julie Piatt?

  She went on air. She went on air. She did. She went on air once and then she never did it anymore. And I ran into her recently at the Humane Society, well, some years ago. And I was able to go up and say hi to her. I was like, do you remember me? She was like, yes, I remember you. So it was sweet to see her. Yeah.

• 59:08Rich Roll?

  So how does that then translate into this pivot? It's like, this trunk show thing that you started to do.

• 59:14Julie Piatt?

  Well, okay, so if you're in stores, it's a big markdown dance. Once you get your foot in the door and you're sort of in the department, then it becomes like, if they don't sell enough, then they hit you back with what you didn't sell. So it's this really deal with the devil. Like, it's never clear, it's never fair. And you're always at the disadvantage.

• 59:36Rich Roll?

  Like leasing a car or going into the casino. Like, it's stacked against you.

• 59:39Julie Piatt?

  Or you're paying for shelf space. And then you're paying, you know, it's just, it sort of feels like you can not find any way out of it. And at the time, You know, and still today, I had a really strong network of people that I'm connected with, and they loved my stuff. And so I had this crazy idea. I was like, what if I call my six best friends in these major cities around the country? I'll ask them to bring 50 people to their homes. I'll get a model. I'll do a size range of muslins and I'll fly in and do a presentation. And I'll charge them 100% of the order upfront and I'll drop ship it to their offices 12 weeks later.

• 1:00:24Rich Roll?

  What's interesting about that is that it sounds like an idea that would work now, but at the time, that just was insane. Nobody was doing that. And I'm sure everybody told you, nobody's going to pay for that. Nobody's going to do that.

• 1:00:38Julie Piatt?

  I don't even know. I mean, I had this beautiful Southern model named Nancy Green, and I did this whole presentation that included a video of I Love Lucy modeling in Paris. I can't remember exactly what my shtick was, but I opened up the evening with these 50 women, showing them this video and then talking about, you know, fashion. And it worked actually quite well. I had no problem selling in advance, 12 weeks in advance. My issue was when I got back from this world tour, this-

• 1:01:13Rich Roll?

  How many cities did you go to?

• 1:01:14Julie Piatt?

  I did like, I did like six cities total. Like, I worked so hard and I was pregnant with Trapper at the time. So I was a pregnant woman, basically doing, and had a one-year-old at home. So I remember I would come home after working and like, take a bath and just have to breathe to get myself back into the energy because I would go out in the evening and do these trunk shows. Because I had to, then I produced the inventory and I had to sell into it. And it was just me. So it was an extreme amount of effort. What I didn't factor in is that it would take me, I had now 1,000 orders to process, where otherwise you would get like, one sheet of order with a bunch of styles, right?

• 1:02:00Julie Piatt?

  And the other thing I realized is that I lost all of my profit in the extra sizes that nobody bought. So like you get the person and they're like, you know, I want the pant in a 12 in pink. And as a designer, you're like thinking, you're not going to wear that pant in pink. You know, what I should have said is you're forbidden to wear that pant in pink, but I didn't. So what happens is you try to produce for everybody and then you lose the, the profit is in just those.

• 1:02:25Rich Roll?

  Right. Because unless you're doing it at some level of scale, when you're doing one offs, you're never gonna get out from under.

• 1:02:31Julie Piatt?

  And I did everything from T-shirts to evening gowns and fake fur jackets. I would go to LAX in my Jeep and pick up fake fur from Germany and drive it on the roof of my car to the studio. Like, the amount of commitment that it takes to do that, it's, you have to be young and insane. And so, anyway, I did that for about a year and then I burnt out. And I read Calvin Klein's autobiography and Donna Karen's autobiography and I realized that this was never going to stop. That there was.

• 1:03:04Rich Roll?

  It doesn't matter how big you get or how successful, it's still like this crazy, manic.

• 1:03:11Julie Piatt?

  Exactly. And I was like, I can't, and I had been picked up by a very reputable accounting firm who was supposed to be guiding me. And I had done a big fashion show at the Pacific Design Center and I had over 100 styles in that show. I had, by the way, I had women from the real estate community that I knew modeling for me. I had some professional models, but I also brought real people into the show. And it was this beautiful night and I remember my father's jaw was on the floor. He couldn't believe that I had done all of that. One of the times that he was so proud of me. But I was pregnant with Trapper and I walked out on the runway at the end with Tyler in my arms and Trapper in my belly.

• 1:03:55Julie Piatt?

  And I had just managed this like Herculean thing. And so after Trapper was born, you know, I don't know, maybe six months after he was born, I made the decision to close the company. Cause I was like, I just can't do it. And I was heartbroken. Literally, I got sick for like four weeks and I had left with like $150,000 debt. Like when the train stops and everything hits the wall and the whole thing.

• 1:04:24Rich Roll?

  It all catches up with you.

• 1:04:25Julie Piatt?

  And I was so unseasoned in business that I took that so personally that I couldn't repay some of those things. And I would go see my subs and they would say, Julie, it's okay. Like this is business. You're going to be back. Like it's fine. But it literally was like really soul crushing to me.

• 1:04:45Rich Roll?

  So when you look back on that, do you have any regrets? Do you ever imagine what it would have been like? Like, let's say somebody did come in and say, here's, you know, I love what you're doing. You just need structure and you need help. Like here's X number of dollars to get you rolling and hire staff and create some infrastructure here.

• 1:05:05Julie Piatt?

  Yeah. I mean, I was a prolific designer, literally never out of creative ideas. And my line was beautiful. When I look at photos today, it's still beautiful. It's not like it was a fad. It just wasn't meant to be. And I guess the silver lining for me is that when I did close the company and went through like a four week collapse, after that I found yoga and I started practicing yoga. Even though I was, I was still spiritually connected because we were following Deepak Chopra's seven laws of spiritual success. Like I had my team and my people. We were always inspiring them in that kind of way, like a, you know, altruistic living.

• 1:05:47Rich Roll?

  And you did Tony Robbins a bunch of times.

• 1:05:49Julie Piatt?

  Oh, yeah. I did Tony Robbins during that. I did all Tony Robbins programs, all the mastery, financial mastery, unleash the giant within, whatever it is. I fire walked with him. I fire walked with him totally. It was great. My partner in those was Chuck Norris's.

• 1:06:08Julie Piatt?

  Sidekick on the show. His name's, is his name Clarence?

• 1:06:12Rich Roll?

  I don't remember.

• 1:06:14Julie Piatt?

  Anyway, super fun. He was my partner in one of the advanced, you know, programs. So it was really, it was really cool, but literally broke my heart. After that, I built, I became a house contractor and I built a home that overlooks all of Malibu. That's the highest point. That was the home that I had with the boy's dad. And then after that, I built the home that you and I are in now. So, and everybody was like, oh, building, isn't that stressful? I was like, no, it's just one house. It's not 10,000 sleeves. So I had, you know,

• 1:06:50Rich Roll?

  The idea that building a house would be simpler than manufacturing a line of clothing.

• 1:06:54Julie Piatt?

  Way simpler.

• 1:06:56Rich Roll?

  Ironic and hilarious.

• 1:06:57Julie Piatt?

  Way, way, way simpler. And, and I love it. And, and if anybody gets a chance to do that, it's, it's a wonderful, wonderful experience. I, I really loved it.

• 1:07:06Rich Roll?

  Well, I think what's great about those stories that you just shared is that they all inform kind of what you're doing now. And people will look at you and say, oh, now she's the Doian of, you know, vegan cheese, but look what backed it up. Like there's a whole career, decades of, you know, experience that you garnered, you know, doing difficult things in the business world and succeeding and failing and trying again. So when you look back, when you reflect on those experiences, you know, what did you learn that has informed your approach to, you know, Shrimu and what you're doing now?

• 1:07:42Julie Piatt?

  Well, I mean, I think what I've learned is that in order to create something that's very powerful, the vision has to be very unified, like very, very true and very real. So I knew when I was creating Shrimu, it was sort of, had to be this expression of beautiful design, highest quality, purest ingredients, and really done in the way where I consider Shrimu to be a beauty brand. We haven't seen it. There's more going to be coming. Cheese is leading, but it's really a beauty brand. I'm offering Shrimu as an invitation to a beautiful life. And that beautiful life comes from eating a high vibrational not cheese product,

• 1:08:26Julie Piatt?

  which I call the next evolution of cheese. So I'm not asking us to give up our love of cheese. I've just made it better. So it's better for our health, our bodies, it's better for the animals, it's better for the planet, and it's ultimately better for our children. And so for me, you know, meeting Brian Ahara, who is the amazing artist who did this coating, which I have these tattoos go out with Shremu.

• 1:08:54Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:08:54Julie Piatt?

  Shipments. And this coating, Brian has written backwards and read backwards his entire life. And so he developed this branding for me. This says devotional offering. This is what is within this coating. And it's part of my, my label and my brand. And, and so I guess for me, it's like, I had to start at the peak of the artistic expression, knowing that this is a global brand. And I have over 40 recipes of cheese, where I can tell you, anyone that ate them would be, you know, falling on the floor in ecstasy, or being very excited about the flavors. But Shremu now is at the top

• 1:09:38Julie Piatt?

  of that. And then, you know, as I go, there will be more mass products. And, you know, there's many more aspects of the business in the vision.

• 1:09:47Rich Roll?

  So perhaps I'm overestimating how aware the audience is about what you are doing at the moment. It probably is worth providing a little bit of background. So you co-authored a couple of cookbooks with me, which were really your cookbooks, like my name is on

• 1:10:04Julie Piatt?

  them. Let's just be honest.

• 1:10:05Rich Roll?

  If we're being honest, like you, in solidarity with my decision to go plant-based and train for these races, you showed up and infused our kitchen with a tremendous amount of creativity to initially to support me, but then it became its own creative inspiration for you. The result of that is everything that we've co-created together, including The Plant Power Way Cookbook, the Plant Power Way Italia Cookbook, which is a nod to the retreats that we do where we take these groups of people to this beautiful agriturismo in Tuscany and have a seven day experience of food and meditation and community. And in addition to that, you authored another book called This Cheese Is Nuts.

• 1:10:48Rich Roll?

  You became obsessed with trying to figure out how to create plant-based cheese. And this was many years ago. This wasn't yesterday. And you basically went into the kitchen, treated it like a lab, and set about cracking the code on trying to create like the next evolution, the next level of what a plant-based cheese could taste like. Because at the time, there were plenty of brands in the store. Most of them not so good. Most of them taste kind of the same, relatively bland. And you thought, there's got to be a better way to do this. And over many years and a lot of experimentation, you really figured it out.

• 1:11:31Rich Roll?

  I have to say, like, you completely figured it out. And you created this book, which basically tells people how to do this themselves at home. You continued to iterate and learn and experiment and grow. And then it got to this place where people were like, well, I love the book, but you know, I'm just never going to do this at home. Like, can you just make, because you would make it and we would bring it to dinner parties or we would share it with friends and people would just flip out. Like, they would just lose their minds. They just couldn't believe that there wasn't dairy in this cheese. Because this isn't just, this isn't like American slices of cheese. This is like high-end, very fine artisanal wheels of cheese that are reminiscent of, you know, the Parisian flavors that you're so familiar with,

• 1:12:14Rich Roll?

  whether it's a brie or a camembert or, you know, those kind of exotic, very cheesy iterations of cheese. And people would say, like, just, can you just make, like, I'll buy it. Like, I'm never gonna, I'm too busy. I'm not gonna make this. Will you just make it? And you were like, I'm not gonna do that. But then, you know, it dawned on you at some point, I'm interested in what that point was, where you just decided, okay, maybe I can do this. And you set about like creating this line of cheese called Shremu, which is now a full-fledged startup. We're going to get into what's happening currently with it. But you've turned it into this really beautiful, direct-to-consumer product line.

• 1:12:52Julie Piatt?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:52Rich Roll?

  Super proud of you.

• 1:12:54Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, thanks. I mean, it took, first of all, I mean, I have friends of mine that live in Paris half the time, Lucy and Jan Welterz, and he's a fashion photographer, she's a stylist, and, you know, they eat French cheese, like, they speak French, their kids speak French, like, they live in Paris half the time, and they were freaking out over my cheese. So they would just be, you know, inhaling it, saying, "You have to make this, you have to make this." And, you know, I took a long time, you know, I have to say, I had a lot of pain over what I attempted, or what I experienced with Julie Piatt Collection. I was like, I know what production is, I'm not at a loss at what

• 1:13:34Julie Piatt?

  that is. And I started to sort of meditate on what it would take to launch this food company. And quite frankly, it's a lot simpler, it's a lot more direct, and it has a greater capacity to make a global impact that will be a legacy for me. I mean, something that would actually transform people's lives from within their kitchens. And I've done that with my cookbooks, and, you know, I know that food is an energy, recipes are an energy, and I believe that when I infuse these recipes with my love of source connection,

• 1:14:14Julie Piatt?

  that this somehow makes it into whoever is eating the food. And so with Shrimu, the vision was to make a beautiful brand that was crafted in devotion, with the best ingredients, and was made with the purest intentions. So truly, truly made for the purpose of supporting animals, supporting creating more love on the earth, supporting our bodies. I have a very sensitive stomach, I can't eat dairy, I can't eat a handful of nuts.

• 1:14:50Julie Piatt?

  I mean, I can eat dairy, but I have a stomach ache after. So to be clear, you know, before, when I wasn't vegan. But even if I eat a handful of nuts, I have a stomach ache right away. So working with these cheeses and curing them and soaking them and adding the cultures and processing them. I never had a stomach ache any of the time. And I was absolutely stunned at the quality of cheese experience that I've been able to create. And the reason I think that I was able to create it is that I literally worked on my own in an experience of exploration. And I just went for it and tried things.

• 1:15:34Julie Piatt?

  There were a lot of fails before I figured it out, but I've really figured it out.

• 1:15:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, a couple of things. The first thing is there were a lot of people who said, well, why don't you just go to the farmer's market and set up your booth and like sell it? And you're like, I'm not doing that. Like I did a version of that when I had my fashion line. I'm not interested in that. I'm only interested in creating something that I can scale. And secondarily, there's this idea when you raise the issue of like a plant-based cheese, people immediately think fake cheese and their mind turns to all these, you know, processed chemicals that a lot of these companies use as binders to create the flavor and the texture that people are used to with cheese, right? And that's like a hurdle that you've had to address and overcome because there is none of that in what you do.

• 1:16:24Rich Roll?

  I mean, there's actually very few ingredients in this product.

• 1:16:28Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, they're very pure. This is not a gooey creepy vegan cheese that tastes horrible that you want to gag. It's very pure and authentic. And I think if I, you know, what I've learned as a designer, you know, you asked, what did you learn? Well, I think what we learn as designers or painters or fashion designers or writers is you get to a level of maturity where you understand that less is more. In fact, it's the simplicity that makes something extraordinary. And so if my recipes stand for anything, they stand for the ability to be. Simply showcasing what Mother Nature provides with some alchemy and design and flair

• 1:17:08Julie Piatt?

  and definitely taste, but it's really in the simplicity of what is done and trying to preserve purity in the product.

• 1:17:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:30Rich Roll?

  So, one of the things that really struck me about this journey that you've been on is that you really took your time. Like, you, for months and months and months, were in this incubation phase where I would be like, are you ever gonna introduce this to the world? But you were very patient. Like, you really wanted to be sure about the name and, you know, what was the mission statement and how are you going to package these things? And what recipes were you gonna lead with? And to me, I just thought, just make a decision and start doing this. Like, what are you waiting for? Now I see, in retrospect, that paying off because the level of like care and intentionality that you invested in making

• 1:18:11Rich Roll?

  sure that you were making those decisions correctly for you and what you really want. Like, I guess what I'm saying is, you were like, I could do it many different ways, but I don't want to look back on this five years from now and say, why did I do it this way? I should have done it this way. Because, and I think I would, you know, I'm projecting, but I would suspect a lot of that was informed by not wanting to end up where you ended up with Julie Piatt Collection, where you were in this manic thing and not enjoying your life.

• 1:18:41Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's not lost on me what production entails. And, you know, the other thing is the amount of waste that is incurred during fashion production. And so, I had to think and really meditate on this long and hard, whether I really wanted to step into this space. And I would say the driving factor that really... Really made the decision for me is the opportunity that I have to make a global impact. And I saw how food transforms our lives. You know, when people are cooking out of our cookbooks, we're literally living in their kitchens. They're eating the same

• 1:19:18Julie Piatt?

  food. And food is, is also a ritual. It's also a ceremony. And so I really, truly know that all of the intentions and hopes and dreams and visions that I have for humanity, for the earth, for the animals, are really in these cheeses. It's, it's really true for me. Had I not had that spiritual aspect, I would have never done it. I don't need to just do a business to feel, you know, to see my name on a label. This is truly a mission for me. And, you know, in my experience, because I'm an artist, I needed for my own

• 1:20:02Julie Piatt?

  alignment to start with a product that was at the pinnacle of what I could do. So I wanted to create the most extraordinary that I could, knowing that there will be future sublines. You know, the world is vast and there's, you know, I have a Velveeta substitute that will just slay. I mean, it's amazing. So if I can go all the way in the different levels and fully intend to and already have all those recipes proven and tested.

• 1:20:33Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but you come out of the gate with the highest of the high end. It's the Tesla model, like Elon Musk first introduces this like Lotus, you know, car that was like, I think it was like $250,000, that first car that Tesla came out with. But the idea was you come out with that and then each iteration, you start to work your way down until you get to scale and are able to produce something that's widely affordable. But it's that same idea. Like you set the brand tone with the highest caliber version of what you can possibly produce.

• 1:21:06Julie Piatt?

  Definitely. And also just for me as a As a being, as an artist, I had to do it this way. And the only thing that's different is that unlike Tesla, I didn't have a financial team on board. So basically, what I did is I guessed at what the box was going to cost me to produce, having never had a production kitchen or a paid worker's comp.

• 1:21:29Rich Roll?

  Well, before we even get to that, what was the decision? Walk me through the decision to make this a direct-to-consumer product rather than taking it to the supermarkets?

• 1:21:41Julie Piatt?

  I think it is informed by my experience of fashion of not wanting to be in a markdown, paid shelf space experience.

• 1:21:50Rich Roll?

  With 20 middlemen, all taking a cut.

• 1:21:53Julie Piatt?

  Exactly. And also, the other thing that I really cherish is the communication with the community. So the ability to actually speak to global issues, speak to spiritual issues, speak to health issues, and have a dialogue with this group of people. So for me, it's about sort of calling all these souls together so that we can collect our energies and then all go out and make a better world, create a brighter world. So it was really that community aspect, the community aspect around food, that really informed my decision to go subscription with this product.

• 1:22:34Rich Roll?

  Right. So you make these top-level decisions. You're able to raise like an angel round of funding to get you up on your feet and rolling. You get into a commercial kitchen space in downtown Los Angeles. You hire a bunch of people and you're rocking and rolling and you're starting to build your subscription base and make a name for yourself. And then boom, pandemic.

• 1:22:56Julie Piatt?

  COVID.

• 1:22:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So how has this experience impacted you as a businessperson and how you're trying to manage?

• 1:23:05Rich Roll?

  Throughout all of this.

• 1:23:06Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, it's been challenging and I'm extremely blessed that we are an essential business because we are a food business and also we are perfectly positioned for home delivery to actually offer this cheese experience into people's individual homes or into their safe community bubbles. So as a category, I see it as an opportunity. Of course, we experienced shipping failure with UPS and FedEx with them not guaranteeing shipments at all. And then they failed to ship over three months 20% of our shipments.

• 1:23:47Rich Roll?

  The shipping has just been insane.

• 1:23:49Julie Piatt?

  It's been insane.

• 1:23:50Rich Roll?

  Seeing you try to figure out how to untie that knot.

• 1:23:52Julie Piatt?

  Right. And of course, because I created this, you know, high-end box that weighs quite a lot. And one thing I did do right is, you know, I chose the box size and after a lot of research and going back and analyzing the size, I really chose the right size. Like, there isn't a different configuration that would have made it cheaper. It's all about scale, really. And also packing products that actually can keep the product colder for a longer period of time. So during COVID, we've been shipping literally overnight to make sure that people receive their shipments because it's just been about making sure

• 1:24:32Julie Piatt?

  they receive. So going forward, we have different packing, raiding materials that keep the package cold for three to four days.

• 1:24:40Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:24:41Julie Piatt?

  So that changes a lot for us. But one thing that I want to share is I found out, I hired a financial analyst. So what I did is I was already in this process before COVID hit, doing a lot of research, meeting with every single expert and, you know, genius that I know, just getting people's feedbacks on financial decks and on strategies and...

• 1:25:03Julie Piatt?

  And these type of things. And then COVID hit and I hired a financial analyst and we've spent all these months going through every single cent, every line item, every process. And what we discovered is that I was undercharging for my box. So for the sacred altar box, I was charging $130 just because I was like, well, that, you know, I kind of did it on a paper and was like, maybe that's the price. And what we've discovered, looking at the margins and everything else, is that that box is actually $174. So I want to mention that anybody that has a current existing subscription of Shreemoo and has supported me, we are going to grandfather

• 1:25:45Julie Piatt?

  those rates in for you, as long as you keep your subscription current. But then I moved to, I wanted to offer some more products. So what I did is I created a four-wheel box and then a three-wheel box. And you don't get the fresh flavors. So there's fresh mozzarella that comes in a jar that's shipped in-

• 1:26:08Rich Roll?

  In the big box.

• 1:26:09Julie Piatt?

  In the big box, in water. And then there's the smoked almond cheddar, which is not your grandma's cheese ball. It's like insanely good. But the wheels you can get in the three-wheel or the four-wheel. And so we're very excited. We're actually launching with the three and four-wheel. The three-wheel is $88 and the four-wheel is $117. And I've got two new flavors also that I've-

• 1:26:33Rich Roll?

  So we have a little, we have like a show and tell here.

• 1:26:36Julie Piatt?

  So should I go around?

• 1:26:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah, why don't you go do that now? If you're not watching it on YouTube and you're listening, dial up to YouTube so you can see the presentation of all these crazy cheeses here. But it's not what you would imagine or suspect when you think about plant-based cheese, I can tell you that.

• 1:26:51Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, so-

• 1:26:52Rich Roll?

  So what do we have?

• 1:26:53Julie Piatt?

  Okay, so what we have on the board here- We have four wheels and we have our Bonfire. So we have, this is not your grandma's juice. This one here. Yeah, it's called Bonfire. It's a smoky almond cheddar, absolutely delicious appetizer. And you can also put it into tacos. It also makes really beautiful little, you can form it into little no meatballs and add them to your pasta. It's irresistibly delicious in every way. And it's shipped in this beautiful cheesecloth inside a jar. Then over here, we have one of our new flavors. It's called Dolce Vita. And this is inspired by Gorgonzola Dolce.

• 1:27:36Julie Piatt?

  And the blue is actually an antioxidant of blueberry, which just makes the beautiful pattern. This is our creamiest cheese. It's made with coconut and cashews and tastes very cheesy, not sweet like coconut, but it gives it that kind of creaminess. Then we have our sort of hero of the cheese board, which is called Birdie. It's camembert inspired. This is like the French, you know, truffle infused taste of the bistro that we all love as cheese lovers. And then we have also Spire, which is inspired by blue cheese, but it's way better than blue cheese. And the blue is from Spiralina.

• 1:28:21Julie Piatt?

  The modeling that you see. Yeah, the modeling. And each one is done by hand, so it's a work of art. And we're really, really loving the way the cheeses are coming out. And then we have this really extraordinary flavor called Gold Alchemy. It's a turmeric, black pepper and smoky infused cashew wheel. And this is where that extra something, the mystery of life, has come through the flavors. Because when I formulated it, I had my Flowmasters and a management team come over and I was like, you guys have to taste my new flavors. And Becca took a bite of this and she was just like, it's so nostalgic, it's so nostalgic. And what we determined is that this flavor tastes exactly like ham, cheese and mustard.

• 1:29:09Rich Roll?

  It tastes, the craziest thing is you'll taste it, I can verify this 110%, you'll taste it and you'll be like, "That's delicious. What does that taste like?" Like you can't identify it. And then when you say that, it clicks in and you're like, "Oh my God." It tastes, to me, it tastes exactly like ham and cheese with like mayo and a little mustard on white bread. Like that sandwich that your mom would make you, you know, when you were in elementary school.

• 1:29:38Julie Piatt?

  Yeah. And like, how did that happen? I don't really know.

• 1:29:40Rich Roll?

  It's the weirdest thing because it's made with turmeric and cashews.

• 1:29:44Julie Piatt?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:45Rich Roll?

  It shouldn't taste like that at all.

• 1:29:46Julie Piatt?

  The ingredients don't line up and I certainly didn't say, "Oh, I'm missing ham, you know, let's make that." But again, this is that part of life and creativity of the unseen. It's being devoted to the unseen. And I fully believe that there are nature elements that are part of this, where you could try to copy this, like, or make it at home. It's not going to be the same. It's just not going to be. And this is sort of like where the sum of the parts are greater than what is in the recipe. So I'm really, really excited to share that with you guys. So I wanted to just show you, so this is the existing altar box.

• 1:30:25Julie Piatt?

  It's in this beautiful reusable, it says, "Shrimadu Life," which is devotional offerings for life. And it's an invitation to a beautiful life. And here we have Brian's coating here. And then here we have four wheels. And then in this one, so in the altar box, we have, we're gonna do spire, dulce vida, birdie, and gold alchemy. So those are the, they're static. We don't have the capacity.

• 1:30:55Rich Roll?

  Pull one of those out and show people what it looks like when you.

• 1:30:58Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, okay. So this one is spire.

• 1:31:02Rich Roll?

  Spire, right. That's my favorite.

• 1:31:03Julie Piatt?

  Right. So it comes like that. And then you have two jars. And this is what the bonfire comes in and the.

• 1:31:13Julie Piatt?

  The Cloud Nine. Cloud Nine is the fresh mozzarella, which is quite amazing. It's wet and it comes in salted waters and it makes a caprese and it makes a beautiful cream cheese as well. So it's quite awesome. Now, this box, the insert comes out and you can use this box for all kinds of things, for sacred tea, as a sacred altar box, a lingerie box, many things.

• 1:31:43Rich Roll?

  That's what I use it for.

• 1:31:44Julie Piatt?

  Rich puts all his lingerie in them.

• 1:31:46Rich Roll?

  So here's the smaller one, too, right?

• 1:31:47Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, so these are the three and four wheel. So you see there are these amazing box and this is a very heavy box. So these cheeses are legit. So you're getting quite, quite an amazing, authentic serving. So this is four wheel. So in the four wheel, we're doing a biry, which is the camembert. We're doing a gold alchemy, which is the ham and cheese. We're doing a dolce, which is the new coconut with blueberry antioxidants and spire. And then it's the same box, but it has an insert in it. And it's just, oops, it's just a three wheel. So here we have gold alchemy. We have spire and we have elder. And elder is not on this board.

• 1:32:31Julie Piatt?

  It's a lot like brie and it's really good to use in cheesecakes as well. And on our website, we have quite an array of recipes that you can use these cheeses in. And I'm very blessed with my team. I have amazing managers, Becca Rife and Chloe Stein, who are both vegan chefs and also Erin O'Neill, who is also a chef as well. And so.

• 1:32:58Rich Roll?

  And the boys, Tyler and Trapper have been working in the kitchen.

• 1:33:01Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, so our sacred makers are now our boys.

• 1:33:03Rich Roll?

  Slide back over there maybe now. Well, it's really cool to see this happening. And I know it's just the start, but I can't imagine a better time for like your timing is incredible. Like there could not be a better time for something like this. There was just an article in Bloomberg, I think it was yesterday or the day before. And it was a long article about just the ascendancy of the plant-based milk space and the kind of vegan, plant-based alternatives to dairy products in general. And it had all these graphs and you can just see the skyrocketing, you know, consumer markets exploding for this kind of thing.

• 1:33:43Rich Roll?

  Danone just spent $10 billion in 2017 to buy White Wave, which is a plant-based company. Like the business aspect of this is bananas right now. And it's been interesting to see the dairy industry kind of like dig its heels in resisting, you know, what is inevitable at this point as people become more and more interested in getting off, you know, lactose-based products. And I know you ran into this a little bit just in figuring out your labeling, like you can't call it cheese and, you know, don't use this and you can't say that. And you kind of steered completely clear of all of that by coming up with these unique names that are not wed to any kind of food at all.

• 1:34:25Rich Roll?

  But didn't you have like, didn't, what didn't like the health department came by and said you can't use this on your label or something like that?

• 1:34:32Julie Piatt?

  No, we were in for quite a while. They were withholding our retail permit. Actually, I want to announce that we are going to be going into Air One markets.

• 1:34:41Rich Roll?

  When is that happening soon?

• 1:34:43Julie Piatt?

  It's happening soon. I'm just waiting for this custom cheese paper because I need messaging to communicate because these wheels have authentic cheese cultures in them and they will continue to age in your refrigerator. And so they may develop traces of a white rind and this is completely safe to eat. It's part of the process. And that I can communicate to my subscribers, but if it's in the store, I can't. So I have the special messaging that's going on that packaging, but we'll be going in all five stores.

• 1:35:15Rich Roll?

  Erawan's in Southern California.

• 1:35:17Julie Piatt?

  They're all in Southern California, yeah, right now. So we're going to be going in all those five stores. They are, Erawan is sort of the highest standard of health food market that exists in the country. I'm honored to be collaborating with them and I'm hoping for a long alliance to actually introduce people to Shrimu. Of course, it's a limited selection in Erawan, so you can't get everything that you get in our subscription there. They'll only have three flavors of the wheels for now. Anyway, so we did finally get our permit. We were able to create the label that I wanted to and actually want to thank Good Food Institute and Bruce for helping me with that.

• 1:36:00Rich Roll?

  Bruce Friedrich.

• 1:36:01Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, helping me and being, you know, just super supportive. And now the thing that I'm a little challenged with is the rates that I'm having to pay for workers' comp. They are making me categorize as a dairy company. And so that's also one of the challenges of a small business.

• 1:36:17Rich Roll?

  Which is so crazy. Like they're like, you can't use...

• 1:36:19Julie Piatt?

  It's like, I'm not using any dairy.

• 1:36:20Rich Roll?

  They're speaking out of both sides of their mouth because on the one hand, they're like, you can't call it cheese. You can't say that, you can't have a picture of a cow. You can't do any of this stuff, but you're a dairy company.

• 1:36:30Julie Piatt?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:31Rich Roll?

  And so you're going to have to adhere to all these strict requirements that are really just about, you know, keeping things safe because there is, you know, because dairy decomposes in a certain way, right?

• 1:36:43Julie Piatt?

  Yeah. Well, it's more, it's more treacherous, right? It's more dangerous. There could be things that...

• 1:36:48Rich Roll?

  Right, right.

• 1:36:48Julie Piatt?

  And one of the things that I am very, I want to mention is that all of our packaging is recyclable. We actually have a FSC rating on our box, which we have a little stamp on the bottom. And the only thing that is not recyclable is the cheese paper because it's touched the cheese and it gets the oils in it and you can't recycle that. So anyway, it's an exciting time. I am in the sort of mindset of creating my own reality. And I think this is an opportunity for all of us right now and it ties back into the beginning of our conversation. And that is that we have the power to create our own reality during this time. And remembering that thoughts are things and what you put your attention on is what

• 1:37:31Julie Piatt?

  you put energy to. And so I believe in all of us. I believe in humanity. Humans are innovative. We are empathic. We are devoted. We are capable. We are genius. Everybody has a genius within themselves. You know, we have to work. The work is in creating a different mindset when we have so many factors that are pressing on us. We have to do whatever we can to change that lens so that we can be amplifying love and creativity and hope and the new systems. And so I want to encourage everybody to rise up and go within and understand that you're

• 1:38:11Julie Piatt?

  needed and you have something of value to share and we need you. So I am embarking right now. I'm going out for my first raise, my first proper raise. And so we're going to be raising 3.3 million for a four-year strategy that's going to take us to do about 24 million. And so I am aligning with my beautiful angel. I actually want to give him a shout out, Steve Barr.

• 1:38:41Rich Roll?

  What's up, Steve?

• 1:38:42Julie Piatt?

  I have the most beautiful human being who is my angel. He is just an extraordinary light on this planet and I feel so blessed to have him close. Also want to give a shout out to Chris Murphy and Save Earth and Chris Blair, who also supported me in the early days. So now here we go. We're going to be really looking for that person or group of people that are really aligned and hopefully strategically aligned, because I have the capacity to go wider with this. I mean, what we see on this board is just the very beginnings. And I'm the artist, I'm the founder, I'm the

• 1:39:27Julie Piatt?

  creator, I will hold the spiritual frequency, and I am dedicated with every aspect of my being to making this a global brand. And I am, you know, open for that other team of individuals who have the resources, skill set, genius, that can collaborate with me to really bring Shrimu to the planet.

• 1:39:51Rich Roll?

  Spoken like a true startup founder who believes in her mission and her product. I love it.

• 1:40:00Julie Piatt?

  Thank you.

• 1:40:00Rich Roll?

  I'm so proud of you. It's super exciting. I know it's going to be wildly successful and it is great. And you have made really wise choices about the people to associate with and, you know, the two Chrises and Steve Barr, I mean, they're just, they're all like amazing, wonderful people. So you are guided by deft hands.

• 1:40:21Julie Piatt?

  Thank you so much. So if anybody out there, if you think you're that person.

• 1:40:25Rich Roll?

  Is that a hiring call?

• 1:40:27Julie Piatt?

  I have a new email address, actually.

• 1:40:29Rich Roll?

  Just for, just for hiring prospects?

• 1:40:31Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, [email protected].

• 1:40:34Rich Roll?

  Oh, you do?

• 1:40:35Julie Piatt?

  You can send me an email.

• 1:40:36Rich Roll?

  You're going to get quite a few emails, I think.

• 1:40:38Julie Piatt?

  I always like it when I give out my email on your show.

• 1:40:40Rich Roll?

  You do?

• 1:40:41Julie Piatt?

  It always turns into something amazing.

• 1:40:43Rich Roll?

  Well, that's very cool. I'm excited for you. And like I said, you know, it couldn't be a better time. People are pivoting in this direction. And even, I did also want to mention that Miyoko, you know, Miyoko's Creamery, Miyoko's a friend and she's built this amazing, you know, company in this space. And she just fought this battle because she was told by the state of California that she couldn't use the word butter, lactose-free, or cruelty-free on any of her product labels. And there was this whole lawsuit. The state was demanding that she cease using those terms and she, there was also like a picture of her hugging a cow. Remember when you had that picture too?

• 1:41:23Julie Piatt?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:24Rich Roll?

  And she prevailed.

• 1:41:26Julie Piatt?

  So great.

• 1:41:27Rich Roll?

  So this is, I think it's just indicative, you know, it's a symbol, it's representative of changing times and changing consumer trends as people look to live more cruelty-free, more sustainably, and obviously healthier.

• 1:41:41Julie Piatt?

  Definitely. And also just, you know, great respect for her because she is really the pioneer, the first person that was creating plant-based cheese. And it's because of her that I was able to sell my book. And anyway, she's, she did amazing work for us in this space and we're here to stay. This is only going to get bigger and, and, and the taste is here, so.

• 1:42:06Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So closing, imparting words of wisdom for the young, aspiring startup founder.

• 1:42:17Julie Piatt?

  Well, it's always a spiritual adventure for me. I don't think there's a separation. And I think, understanding that each one of us was created in this complete, unique blueprint. None of us are the same. And so if you can really identify what it is that you love, what it is that is unique to you, that is so unusual, or so authentic, I would feed that. And I would really stay true and understand that cultivating that connection will prove out, will benefit you. It might not go exactly the way you think it's going to go. But understand that you know a lot. And if you cultivate the practices to go within

• 1:43:00Julie Piatt?

  and really find out what you want to dedicate your life to, and why you've taken a body, what it is you want to express and share, then that will be supported. And you will be further along than if you compromise, or go outside of yourself and try to do it like another person does it. I think, again, it comes down to those moments in the middle of the night, by the fire, in the alchemical ceremony.

• 1:43:31Rich Roll?

  What time did you wake up this morning?

• 1:43:32Julie Piatt?

  Three.

• 1:43:36Rich Roll?

  When I came in this morning, I could smell the fire. So I knew something, some kind of witchcraft had gone down.

• 1:43:43Julie Piatt?

  It's safe, by the way. It's right by a huge body of water, and there's nothing around it. So it's well kept.

• 1:43:49Rich Roll?

  Well, thank you for sharing.

• 1:43:51Julie Piatt?

  Thank you for having me on your show, Rich.

• 1:43:53Rich Roll?

  I love it. I love you.

• 1:43:55Julie Piatt?

  I love you, honey.

• 1:43:56Rich Roll?

  I'm excited for what is to come. For everybody out there who is digging on Julie and wants to learn more about her universe, there's plenty of outlets to do just that. To learn about the cheese, srimu.com, S-R-I-M-U.com. That's where you can see all the stuff and become a subscriber. Julie also has a podcast. You want to talk about that?

• 1:44:18Julie Piatt?

  It's called For the Life of Me.

• 1:44:19Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:20Julie Piatt?

  Yeah. And so, check in with me there for...

• 1:44:24Julie Piatt?

  Upcoming podcasts on spiritual perspectives of current events. It's usually just me. Rarely I have a guest on, but it's usually just me reflecting on current events or spiritual perspectives of how we can truly live a life divine.

• 1:44:40Rich Roll?

  And if you want to really dive deep into the spiritual universe with her, check out her community, Water Tiger. You do these monthly calls and you really spend a lot of time cultivating that community.

• 1:44:54Julie Piatt?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:54Rich Roll?

  You can learn about that on your website at juliepyatt.com.

• 1:44:57Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, it's very deep and it's for everyone, by the way, so don't feel intimidated. There is no hierarchy in spirituality. We are all spiritual beings having a human experience. But Water Tiger, I have to say, I'm quite proud with my design of that because it's designed and crafted to give individuals techniques to lead them deeper into the sense of who they are. So it's not about building a tie to me or any ideology that I have. It's about empowering you to be a free being. And so those techniques and meditations are ones that I develop to support you in that connection.

• 1:45:37Rich Roll?

  All right. How do you feel?

• 1:45:38Julie Piatt?

  I feel pretty good. Thank you so much.

• 1:45:40Rich Roll?

  You're welcome. Thank you for sharing. To be continued at some point in the not too distant future.

• 1:45:47Julie Piatt?

  Awesome. Love you, babe.

• 1:45:49Rich Roll?

  Love you.

• 1:45:49Julie Piatt?

  Thank you.

• 1:45:50Rich Roll?

  Peace. Plaids.

• 1:45:52Julie Piatt?

  Namaste.

• 1:45:58Rich Roll?

  How are you feeling? Are you feeling the feels? That was a good one, I thought. Isn't Julie a luminescent presence? Hope you guys enjoyed it. If you're new to the show and you're digging on Julie, she's been on the podcast a bazillion times. So check the show notes for links to some of her previous episodes. You can find more about her at juliepyatt.com. Also, subscribe to her podcast, For the Life of Me. You can sign up for her Water Tiger Spiritual Community on her website. And definitely, definitely check out her incredible, mind-blowing, plant-based cheeses at shrimu.com, S-R-I-M-U.com. You can find Julie on the social, so let her know how this one landed for you, at Shrimati. We

• 1:46:40Rich Roll?

  have another roll-on AMA coming up in the next couple of weeks. If you would like your question answered, leave me a voicemail at 424-235-4626.

• 1:46:51Rich Roll?

  And if you'd like to support the work we do here on the show, subscribe, rate and comment on it on Apple Podcasts, on YouTube and on Spotify. Share the show or your favorite episodes with friends or on social media. And you can support us on Patreon at ritual.com/donate. Thank you to everybody who helped produce today's show. Jason Camiolo for audio engineering, production, show notes and interstitial music. Blake Curtis for videoing and editing today's show for YouTube and all the clips we share across all the social media platforms. Jessica Moran for graphics. Ally Rogers for portraits. DK for advertising relationships and theme music by Tyler Trapper and Harry, my two stepsons and my nephew. Appreciate you guys. Thanks for the

• 1:47:33Rich Roll?

  love. Thank you for your attention. Thank you for listening all the way to the end. Does anybody listen to this all the way until it's over? Probably not, but if you're still here, I appreciate you. See you back here soon in a couple of days with another great episode. Until then, be well. Peace. Namaste.