The Man Who Predicted AGI Decades Ago w/ Ray Kurzweil | EP #125

I send weekly emails with the latest insights and trends on today’s and tomorrow’s exponential technologies. Stay ahead of the curve, and sign up now: Blog Learn more about Abundance360: https://www.abundance360.com/ _____________ In this episode, Ray and Peter discuss 2025 predictions, Job loss in the coming years, and Ray’s thoughts on nanotech taking over the world. Recorded on Oct 18th, 2024 Views are my own thoughts; not Financial, Medical, or Legal Advice. 12:44 | AGI Predictions Prove Conservative 27:06 | The Future of Jobs with Robots 57:30 | The Future of Humanity: AI Evolution Ray Kurzweil is a world-class inventor, thinker, and futurist, with a thirty-five-year track record of accurate predictions. He has been a leading developer in artificial intelligence for 61 years – longer than any other living person. He was the principal inventor of the first CCD flat-bed scanner, omni-font optical character recognition, print-to-speech reading machine for the blind, text-to-speech synthesizer, music synthesizer capable of recreating the grand piano and other orchestral instruments, and commercially marketed large-vocabulary speech recognition software. Ray received a Grammy Award for outstanding achievement in music technology; he is the recipient of the National Medal of Technology, was inducted into the National Inventors Hall of Fame, and holds twenty-one honorary Doctorates. He has written five best-selling books including The Singularity Is Near and How To Create A Mind, both New York Times bestsellers, and Danielle: Chronicles of a Superheroine, winner of multiple young adult fiction awards. His new book, The Singularity Is Nearer was released on June 25th and debuted at #4 on the New York Times Best Seller list. He is a Principal Researcher and AI Visionary at Google. Read The Singularity is Nearer: https://a.co/d/gbvshG2 ____________ I only endorse products and services I personally use. To see what they are, please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: Get started with Fountain Life and become the CEO of your health: https://fountainlife.com/peter/ AI-powered precision diagnosis you NEED for a healthy gut: https://www.viome.com/peter Reverse the age of your skin with OneSkin; 30% off new subscription orders with code PETER at oneskin.co/PETER Get real-time feedback on how diet impacts your health with https://join.levelshealth.com/peter/ _____________ Connect With Peter: Twitter Instagram Youtube Moonshots Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  2029 for AGI is conservative. People present problems that AI will present, and they assume that all we have is the things that we can do today to modify it without realizing that that's also going to expand.

• 0:17Peter Diamandis?

  Do you see significant job loss in 2025, 26, 27?

• 0:24Speaker 00

  Eighty percent of people worked in food production 200 years ago. Today, that's 2%. So we've lost all those jobs, and yet we have actually more people working.

• 0:37Peter Diamandis?

  What are we likely to see the next one to three years?

• 0:41Speaker 00

  I mean, what's really exciting to me...

• 0:48Peter Diamandis?

  Hi, everybody. Peter Diamandis here. Welcome to Moonshots. This is a special episode for me personally. I have my mentor, my business partner, one of the greatest thinkers in AI, joining me, Ray Kurzweil. He's a computer scientist, an inventor, and a futurist. He's best known for his predictions in artificial intelligence, being the author of "The Singularity is Near" and "The Singularity is Near-Er." His predictions have had an 86% accuracy rate. In this episode, we're going to be talking about what his predictions are for 2025, 2026. We'll talk about longevity escape philosophy. We'll talk about jobs and job loss. We'll talk about digital superintelligence. We'll talk about a lot of the things that, if you're interested in AI,

• 1:31Peter Diamandis?

  you're going to want to hear his thoughts and his answers. Last year, I had Ray on stage with me at Abundance 360. He's one of the co-founders of Abundance 360. I had him there along with Geoffrey Hinton, who just got the Nobel Prize, and Elon Musk, who said, you know, "Ray is one of the greatest thinkers." Maybe a little bit conservative was what Elon said about Ray. You know, the Abundance 360... Membership and Summit is, for me, the program where I bring the greatest thinkers in the world together to talk about what happened in the last year and where things are going in the next two to three years. So you can sort of predict where the future is going. You know, it's a program that's not for everybody. The folks, 500 members

• 2:16Peter Diamandis?

  in the Abundance 360 program are running 10 million to $10 billion companies. I've reserved five seats for listeners of my Moonshots podcast this year. If that's you, if you're interested, please click on the link below or go to abundance360.com to apply. It's one of the most extraordinary programs and I'm so excited. I've committed to running Abundance 360 for 25 years. We're at year 13 and it's getting harder and harder to see where things are going next. All right, enough about that. Let's jump into this podcast. And if you love conversations like this, like we're about to have with Ray, please subscribe. All right, now, the most amazing thinker on the field of AI, Ray Kurzweil.

• 3:00Peter Diamandis?

  By the way, if you're enjoying these episodes, each week I write two blogs to update you on the most important tech trends. I personally write these emails and cover topics like AI, Bitcoin, humanoid robotics, and much more. And then I share my personal thoughts on them. It's called Data-Driven Optimism, and you can find a link to the blog below. Hey, Ray, good to see you, my friend.

• 3:23Speaker 00

  My pleasure. Always good to see you.

• 3:26Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, buddy. You know, I, I count you as my mentor, co-founder, you know, and just partner in helping create a vision for humanity of an exponential and a positive future.

• 3:43Speaker 00

  Well, how long has it been since we've known each other?

• 3:46Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I'm trying to remember that. I think Martin Rothblatt introduced us.

• 3:51Speaker 00

  Is that right?

• 3:52Peter Diamandis?

  It's gotta be shortly after the Anshari X Prize was won. So I'm thinking, it's about 20 years now.

• 4:00Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 4:01Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 4:02Speaker 00

  Very amazing.

• 4:03Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, it's, it's amazing.

• 4:05Speaker 00

  We still look the same, so.

• 4:08Peter Diamandis?

  And we still have the same mindset, which is the most important.

• 4:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, except it's actually coming true, so.

• 4:14Peter Diamandis?

  It is. You know, for, there's a few interesting facts people should know. You know, you and I co-founded Singularity University and Abundance 360. I got you your first job. I don't think people know that, which is kind of funny.

• 4:32Speaker 00

  At Google, you mean?

• 4:33Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. I mean, you had written this book, How to Make a Mind. And then you invited me to help you to join your board.

• 4:41Speaker 00

  And we introduced that to Larry Page.

• 4:43Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, so I came, I joined your board in that company. And you were saying, let's raise, I think we were trying to raise 50 million or something like that. And you had not met Larry at that point. And I said, listen, Larry's become a friend on my board at X Prize. I can, I'm happily introduce you. And so I reached out to Larry and I said, yeah, I'd love to meet Ray. And I remember the meeting, I remember the conference room. So you and I walk in there. And you, you launch into presenting the company. What was the company called back then? Do you remember?

• 5:17Speaker 00

  Patterns.

• 5:18Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, Patterns Inc., that's right. And why don't you recount what happened when you started presenting Patterns to Larry?

• 5:27Speaker 00

  Well, I thought it might be useful if he had made a venture investment in it. And he said, I don't want to make a venture investment. That's ridiculous. So I said, okay, well, everybody you approach is going to be interested. He said, I'll just buy the company.

• 5:42Peter Diamandis?

  I remember him saying, we have so much compute and so much data here. Why would you want to do Patterns Inc. outside of the company?

• 5:50Speaker 00

  Right. And I said, okay, but we just started two weeks ago. We haven't really done anything. And he said, well, is it worth anything? I said, well, yeah, I wouldn't ask you to invest if it wasn't worth anything. He said, okay, so I'll buy it. Yeah.

• 6:05Peter Diamandis?

  And then you said, well, how would you, how would you value it? And then I remember him saying, we can value anything.

• 6:12Speaker 00

  Right, that's right.

• 6:13Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, it was, it was fun. And that's how you got your first job.

• 6:18Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 6:20Peter Diamandis?

  So what's your title? Yeah, you are. What's your title at Google these days?

• 6:23Speaker 00

  Principal Research AI Visionary.

• 6:28Peter Diamandis?

  Okay, that's good. I like that. So let's jump in. I'm thrilled to be having this conversation and, and this podcast could last a good 48 hours straight on all the subjects we have to chat about. But we'll keep it rather succinct and brief. And I want to jump in with a question I've actually had for a bit. You know, you've talked about the singularity being in the year 2045. And you've spoken about reaching human level AI by 2029. And I'm trying to understand if we've got human level AI by 2029, by 2030 and 31 and 35.

• 7:12Speaker 00

  It doesn't mean though typical of a human. It means typical of all humans.

• 7:17Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 7:17Speaker 00

  So any human that can do anything, it'll be comparable to that and better than that.

• 7:24Peter Diamandis?

  So why aren't we reaching the singularity in 20?

• 7:27Speaker 00

  Go, it can play Go better than any human. And, and et cetera, for every single thing that humans can do.

• 7:36Peter Diamandis?

  I, I buy that. But my question is, why is the singularity 44 years out if we're doubling? And we've got 10 doublings. I mean, in AI, the power of AI is doubling not once every two years, but in some instances, it's doubling every few months.

• 7:53Speaker 00

  It's like 20 years away. 2045 is. Almost twenty-one years from today.

• 7:59Peter Diamandis?

  But why is it so far out? It seems like if, I don't think it's, you're able to, we're able to predict anything by 2035. And the speed is gonna be, you know, just extraordinary by then.

• 8:12Speaker 00

  Well, the singularity is a metaphor.

• 8:15Peter Diamandis?

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:15Speaker 00

  And it's something that we can't really say about. Like, if information goes into a physics singularity, we can't actually access it. It's stuck in there, and things can happen in there, but we can't actually tell what's going on. So we're actually borrowing this metaphor from physics to talk about this historical singularity. And so 2030s, we'll have things that go beyond what humans can do. And it will seem quite remarkable, but we have humans today.

• 8:55Speaker 00

  So having more humans, it amplifies us, but it's not the same thing as the singularity. The singularity is when we can, ourselves, we're gonna merge with AI. So that's already a difference than other people. People think AI is over here, we're over here, there's a difference. We're actually gonna merge the two together, and we're going to become, uh... We're gonna be able to do everything that AI can do ourselves. Right now, if you use a language model, it doesn't seem like it's ourselves. It seems like it's somebody else. And we're gonna do that with things like the future version of Neuralink.

• 9:40Peter Diamandis?

  Sure.

• 9:40Speaker 00

  Right now, which allows you to actually access your own brain. And so Neuralink, for example, is implanted in two paralyzed patients. They can control a computer with their brain. They can do it actually as good as people can access their own computer. But accessing your own computer isn't like accessing your own mind. Like, if you, if I wanna tell you something and you look it up on your computer, it takes you, I don't know, five seconds, ten seconds, it doesn't just like pop up instantly.

• 10:18Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 10:19Speaker 00

  So we're gonna be able to do that in the 2030s. We're gonna have nanorobots that are much more... Expansive than Neuralink or Synchron today. And by 2045, we're going to expand our own intelligence a millionfold. That's so remarkable that we can't really say what it'll be like. And that's why we're using this metaphor.

• 10:44Peter Diamandis?

  Do you believe we're going to have an intelligence explosion? There's been a lot of conversation about recursive AI self-programming and self-improving that will lead to a hard takeoff with an extraordinary acceleration of computational capacity.

• 11:01Speaker 00

  Right. No, but it's going to be exponential. And exponential seems very fast. But their positions, once it gets established, boom, it like interacts in a fraction of a second and we get the singularity. Might as well go exponentially towards that. But exponentially gets to be faster and faster. So it seems similar, but it's actually on the slow school of the singularity. We're going to get there exponentially.

• 11:40Peter Diamandis?

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• 12:23Peter Diamandis?

  It's available and it's one of the most important things for those who want to extend their health span. Now, you can get two extra months on your annual Levels membership by going to levels.link backslash peter. I hope you do. It's an extraordinary experience to know what's truly going on inside your body. All right, let's go back to our episode. You know, it's interesting, last year I had yourself onstage with me at the Abundance Summit, which was awesome. Jeffrey Hinton was with us, Elon Musk was with us, and I loved that Elon said, yes, Ray is prescient and he's conservative. So I think it's the first time you're being called conservative about your AGI estimates.

• 13:09Speaker 00

  Well, GAI.

• 13:16Peter Diamandis?

  AGI is going to be, do you still believe it's 2029?

• 13:20Speaker 00

  Yes, and he's actually saying next year.

• 13:23Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 13:23Speaker 00

  So I'm conservative compared to him. I think saying by the end of this decade is conservative. It could happen faster. I see no reason to increase my estimate. I said 2029 in 1999.

• 13:39Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, 30 years.

• 13:41Speaker 00

  And people like Jeffrey Hinton was there. Stanford actually organized a conference. Several hundred people came, and their consensus was 80% thought it would be 100 years, including Jeffrey Hinton. And he's saying that he was wrong. It's actually more like 30 years, like what Kurzweil was saying, in 1999. But no one was saying 30 years at that time.

• 14:11Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. No, it's, you're, and for those who don't know, Ray's predictive accuracy has been outstanding. If you go and you Google, there are many cases in which all of your books are documented about when you predict something is going to happen. And within, you know, giving a leniency of like 12 to 24 months, I think your accuracy rate is at 86%. So, not too bad. Not too bad at all. You know, the other thing that happened at that summit last year, at the Abundance Summit, and I hope we'll have Elon and you back next year, is that...

• 14:48Speaker 00

  I mean, that happened a year ago, and it seems like an ancient history.

• 14:53Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, it is ancient history. But one of the things that was...

• 14:56Speaker 00

  So much has happened in the last year. It's just remarkable. And it's going to keep happening faster and faster each year. So 2029 for AGI is conservative.

• 15:13Peter Diamandis?

  And on the predictive, you know, 12 to 24 months accurate. So one of the comments made by both Elon and Geoffrey Hinton, and congrats to him for the Nobel Prize, was that 80% chance AI is going to turn out great for humanity, 20% chance we're screwed. I'm curious, you know, whether, what your comments are about.

• 15:39Speaker 00

  Say that, say that again?

• 15:40Peter Diamandis?

  So Elon and Geoffrey Hinton said that they're looking forward on how AI will impact humanity. It's 80% probability that humanity is going to survive and thrive, and AI is going to support us. And there's a 20% chance that AI is going to be, you know, disruptive to humanity. And so I'm curious, you know, if you feel that's correct. And what do we do to minimize the downside?

• 16:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, I deal with that a lot in my book.

• 16:17Peter Diamandis?

  And for those need to know, Ray's most recent book is The Singularity is Near. The super imaginative title as a follow on to The Singularity is Near, which really began our relationship. I read that book when I was, when I was trekking through, through, where was I? I was in Chile, trekking in the mountains there.

• 16:40Speaker 00

  I hadn't met you at that point.

• 16:41Peter Diamandis?

  You hadn't met me, no. And I had this backpack, this huge hardcover book was a significant amount of the weight I was carrying. And when I finished reading this book, I was like, okay, I know a lot of this stuff, having spent, you know, a decade at MIT with folks like Eric Drexler and reading your previous books. But I said, there's no place on the planet that anyone can go to get an overview of all of these topics, to understand what they mean. And I wrote down at the end of the book, you know, International Singularity University, which became Singularity University, which I then approached you and instantly, we're having lunch, I think. And that actually, yeah, go on.

• 17:26Speaker 00

  Well, I make decisions very quickly.

• 17:29Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, instantly you said, yeah, let's do it.

• 17:31Speaker 00

  It persists in my life for decades.

• 17:36Speaker 00

  I make instantly, so I said, yes.

• 17:40Peter Diamandis?

  Yes, you did, and we launched it at TED and at Ames, and Larry Page was there. He came on stage and said, yes, this should should exist. And so Singularity has done really well. And then you and I started the Abundance 360 membership, which is Singularity's highest level membership and the Abundance Summit. But going back to the 80/20 probability, what do you think? Do you give us 20% chance of having problems?

• 18:10Speaker 00

  Well, we're going to have problems. I mean, we have benefits and problems already. Fire warms us, cooks our food, also burns us, and does both of those things. We can be mindful that we know that fire can burn us, so we have to avoid putting ourselves near fire.

• 18:37Speaker 00

  We already see things. I mean, I can create you, and I can have you saying things that you would never say. It looks real, that exists today, that's affecting the election, which is a few weeks away.

• 18:54Speaker 00

  But I don't think we would want to get rid of AI. Its benefits are already quite enormous, and it's going to get better, literally. And we talked about something a year ago, it seems like ancient history. So we're not going to want to get rid of it.

• 19:13Peter Diamandis?

  For sure.

• 19:14Speaker 00

  And we're going to actually learn its problems. People present problems that AI will present, and they assume that all we have is the things that we can do today to modify it without realizing that that's also going to expand. And we're going to be able to actually deal with problems that we can't deal with today.

• 19:38Speaker 00

  I mean, would... This is really an increase in our intelligence. And would we want to not be intelligent, have human beings be the intelligence of a mouse? Maybe that would be good. We wouldn't be able to develop atomic weapons that way. So, yes, intelligence has brought us problems that we didn't have before. But...

• 20:06Speaker 00

  I mean, I've given you a few charts. Year's personal income.

• 20:11Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, let's go ahead and put on the charts one second for those on YouTube, which is most of our audience. Let's take a look at these charts.

• 20:19Speaker 00

  I mean, in constant dollars, the amount of money per person that a person in the United States makes is 10 times what it was 100 years ago.

• 20:32Peter Diamandis?

  In constant dollars, so we see an ex- literally an exponential curve between 1774 up through 2022. And this is just a meteoric rise. And the important thing is that these are in constant year dollars. They're not inflated dollars.

• 20:53Speaker 00

  And all this is driven by the exponential increase in computation. Actually, this is my most important chart.

• 21:01Peter Diamandis?

  And this is plotted on a log scale, which means a straight line.

• 21:05Speaker 00

  Each level is 10 times the level below it. So this started with a Zusa computer. He was a German in 1939 and was shown to Hitler. He was not actually supportive Hitler, but it got shown to him. Hitler had no interest in computation. The third computer on this chart is Turing's computer, which was shown to, wrote that to

• 21:36Speaker 00

  the leader of the Allied forces. We use it to decode the Nazi messages. Anyway, this is a straight line. It means exponential growth. And it started at 0.000007 calculations per second per constant dollar. In 2024, the Nvidia chip, the B200.

• 22:04Speaker 00

  Is half a trillion calculations per second per constant dollar. So for the same price, we can now get seventy-five quadrillion-fold increase in the amount of computation. And that's what's driven it. That's why we didn't have large language models in nineteen thirty-one or even three years ago. We began to have them two years ago. If we compare the things two years ago to today, it's remarkable. So this constant increase in the amount of computation for the same money has driven this AI revolution that started two years ago.

• 22:43Peter Diamandis?

  You've deemed this the law of accelerating returns. Moore's law is a segment of it, which involves integrated chips.

• 22:51Speaker 00

  Right. Moore's law has to do with integrated circuits. But this started at relays, went to tubes, discrete transistors, integrated circuits, and now we've gone beyond integrated circuits. And you don't see any variation in this tube. It's basically a straight line.

• 23:09Peter Diamandis?

  You don't expect this to slow down or stop?

• 23:12Speaker 00

  No. In fact, I found this chart forty-five years ago. And it would continue, and it has continued exactly as I found it forty-five years ago. So I have half of this chart, and it's continued onto trillions of calculations per second per constant dollar. So it's pretty amazing, and it's going to continue. We've made the same progress with software as we have with hardware. So the actual value is the amount of computations we get from software and from hardware both. So it's actually even more expansive than what you see here.

• 23:54Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, Elon was saying on our stage last year that he's seeing a hundred X per year if you include computation and algorithmic efficiencies.

• 24:08Speaker 00

  Well, that's about what we've done with the kinds of computations we've done with large language models. And if we compare what we have today to two years ago, it's something like that.

• 24:21Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 24:21Speaker 00

  So it's pretty extraordinary.

• 24:23Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing.

• 24:24Speaker 00

  I believe that large language models should be called large event models. Because large language models, yes, are actually pretty fantastic with language, but they're not just applied to language, they're applied to pharmaceuticals, they're applied to all kinds of things other than language. So it really should be large event models.

• 24:47Peter Diamandis?

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• 25:29Peter Diamandis?

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• 26:13Peter Diamandis?

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• 26:54Peter Diamandis?

  It's a chance to really add decades on to our healthy lifespans. Go to fountainlife.com/peter. It's one of the most important things I can offer to you as one of my listeners. All right, let's go back to our episode. So I'd like to turn the conversation to a couple of questions that have been on a lot of people's minds, and I want to put them to bed because it causes fear and excitement. The first is concerns of job loss, and I think you and I have both been consistent on our positions here.

• 27:33Peter Diamandis?

  But do you see significant job loss in 2025, 26, 27 as a result of humanoid robots, AI-driven humanoid robots coming online, and large language models entering this field?

• 27:49Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, we have to consider what jobs, what good, what value we get out of jobs. And if it's actually to explore new areas, find out new things that we didn't know before, that's very exciting. That's what I've tried to do in my life, and I can actually do that more if I actually have more intelligence. I mean, I have a certain amount of intelligence, but it's limited. I'll have a lot more if I can actually merge with the intelligence that we're creating.

• 28:32Speaker 00

  But people are very eager to retire because they really don't like their jobs. The jobs is, we've got a bunch of tables that have been used. We have to clean it up. It's not the kind of jobs.

• 28:49Peter Diamandis?

  Or the bathroom. Yeah, these people are, these people get jobs because it's what they need to put food on the table for their kids or get insurance. It's not what they dreamed of doing as a kid.

• 29:00Speaker 00

  And that kind of jobs we're going to be able to do for ourselves. Now, that's going to lead to some kind of dislocation. For example, large language models can code already. They're not quite at the same level as a professional coder, but they're going to get there pretty soon. So we're going to have to relearn how to apply our new intelligence to create new kinds of capabilities. That'll be very good. That's what we've done anyway.

• 29:39Speaker 00

  Eighty percent of people worked in food production 200 years ago.

• 29:46Peter Diamandis?

  Farmers, yes.

• 29:46Speaker 00

  Two percent. So if you've lost all those jobs, and yet we have actually more people working. People say, "Well, don't worry about losing your job. You'll become a social media influencer." And no one knows what you're talking about. So we're going to have new types of jobs, things that we can't even imagine today. So there's going to be problems with figuring this out, and it's going to go very, very quickly. But ultimately, we'll be happier for it. I think we will.

• 30:33Speaker 00

  Give people money so they can manage while they're reconsidering what kind of work they will be able to do.

• 30:40Peter Diamandis?

  Do you think UBI will come on, UBI will come online, universal basic income?

• 30:43Speaker 00

  Yes, I think in the 2030s.

• 30:45Peter Diamandis?

  Would that come, you know, I've heard Jeff Bezos talk about, we're going to tax the robots and the AIs that take the jobs, and then we'll use the income from that as the tax base to then provide UBI.

• 30:59Speaker 00

  Well, people have different ideas. I'm not sure we'll follow anybody's ideas, but we'll figure that out. I mean, we'll have to do that. We won't have, people won't have money to buy products.

• 31:14Peter Diamandis?

  You know, one of the, another question along these lines is, I think humans inherently need some level of challenge and purpose in life to feel happy. And I'm curious, you know, as we get superintelligent, you know, as we head towards digital superintelligence or artificial superintelligence, whatever name you like.

• 31:37Speaker 00

  The digital superintelligence is going to be within us. It's not like we're here and then there are AIs over there.

• 31:44Peter Diamandis?

  So we had that conversation on the abundance stage last year too, and it's interesting, right? Because that effectively means we are going to speciate. There are going to be those who choose to merge with AI and become enabled, empowered, and those who choose not to. And then you've got the scenario with Her, the movie Her, in which the AIs get bored with us and just take off and go away. So will we link with AI, I guess, is one of the questions.

• 32:17Speaker 00

  Well, we will. I mean, 15 years ago, I presented something like this. It said, are you going to want to carry this around every day? Do you want to have it with you? And people said, no, maybe once a day I'll look at it. Recently, I asked everybody, who has a cellphone? Literally, everybody had a cellphone.

• 32:40Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I'm sure.

• 32:40Speaker 00

  So it's not like there's certain persons that carry their cellphone and certain people that don't. Carrying a cellphone is a problem, though. If you want to get information from it, it takes a few seconds. It can take like 10, 15, 20 seconds. It's actually too long. It's better if it just pops up in your mind. And it's like, if you try to remember something, you remember it instantly. That's how we want this new intelligence to be. We don't want to have a separate thing. I mean, I have to carry this around all the time.

• 33:16Peter Diamandis?

  What a pain in the neck, huh?

• 33:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, it is. But we do it.

• 33:20Peter Diamandis?

  So you think, so you think purpose is going to be, we're going to up-level our purpose because we're able to now take on new, huge aspirational goals? Because we're more intelligent and capable?

• 33:35Speaker 00

  Yes, absolutely.

• 33:37Peter Diamandis?

  As do I, but that's great.

• 33:39Speaker 00

  Would we want to stay the level of a mouse? I mean, a lot of the problems we have are because of our intelligence. Like we created atomic weapons. Mice didn't do that. We did that. And that's because of our added intelligence. So we've actually created problems. And people think of new problems created by the additional intelligence we'll have.

• 34:07Speaker 00

  But, and I guess I'm advocating that we'll become more intelligent. I think that's beneficial. And we'll be able to do things that are aspirational.

• 34:20Peter Diamandis?

  You know, today, when I'm on stages and I speak about a future of connecting with the cloud, of brain-computer interface, of connecting our neocortex with the cloud. And I ask people, how many of you would like to do this? And, you know, there's always a good 20% in the audience, but it's not 100%. Because I think they fear the unknown. I think it's very similar to when you asked the question 20 years ago, how many of you want to carry this around with you everywhere, all the time?

• 34:59Peter Diamandis?

  You know, Neuralink, you know, we humans connect at like forty bits per second as we're communication communicated. I think is the is the appropriate rate speed there.

• 35:13Speaker 00

  But Well, our thoughts actually occur to us much more quickly than that.

• 35:17Peter Diamandis?

  They do internally, sure.

• 35:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, and that's what we're going for. We actually be able to create internal speeds like we have with our own brain. And that's what we'll have in the 2030s. We don't have that today. What we have today is very good for people that can't communicate. If you can't communicate and suddenly you can actually access a computer at the speed that people access computers today, that's very beneficial. But if you're talking about everybody, it's got to be even faster. But that will happen by the 2030s.

• 35:56Peter Diamandis?

  So I think one of the things that you pin both longevity, escape velocity, and brain-computer interface on is the nanotechnology world. And of course, Feynman, Richard Feynman, spoke about nanotechnology in his very famous 1959 lecture, There's Plenty of Room at the Bottom. And then a mutual friend of ours, Eric Drexler, in 1986, wrote The Engines of Creation. And of course, you've written extensively about about nanotechnology. Can you describe what nanotechnology is? And I am super curious, where are we today in nanotech?

• 36:37Peter Diamandis?

  Do you know of any companies that are making diligent progress in that area?

• 36:42Speaker 00

  I do. I mean, some of them are confidential. We don't actually need that type of capability to do what I'm saying will happen in the 2030s. It's basically the ability to communicate from our neocortex outside of our body, and that will go to a cloud. And that does not actually require Drexlerian nanotechnology.

• 37:17Peter Diamandis?

  Eric spoke about assemblers, right, which are nano-machines that can rearrange individual atoms.

• 37:24Speaker 00

  They can create anything.

• 37:25Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 37:27Speaker 00

  And we've had the description of computers that are at that level. So literally, a computer this size would have the intelligence of all human beings, you know, like 10 billion human beings together.

• 37:48Peter Diamandis?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:49Speaker 00

  But we don't need that for the 2030s. But we will be able to do what I'm saying, which is basically just have our neocortex communicate to the cloud. It doesn't have to be the entire neocortex. The neocortex is organized like a funnel. And the ones, as you go up the funnel, concepts become more complex. And you really only need to interact with the last part of the neocortex.

• 38:30Speaker 00

  That we can do in the 2030s. And so if you're thinking about something, thoughts will come to you, just like it comes to you from your own brain. And you won't actually be able to tell the difference between things coming from your own brain and things coming from the neocortex. It'll be the same.

• 38:51Peter Diamandis?

  So if I want to understand Schröinger's equation and how it applies to, you know, certain molecules on the surface of a cell, I will just understand it without knowing how?

• 39:05Speaker 00

  Yes. And computers can do that today, and you'll be able to do that as well.

• 39:13Peter Diamandis?

  I'm going back, I'm going back to MIT and becoming a physics, a physics major. It's gonna be so much easier.

• 39:20Speaker 00

  Physics in every other field.

• 39:23Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 39:24Speaker 00

  But I mean, you can do the large language model today. You can look up anything in physics, or humanities, or psychology, psychiatry, so on. And you'll be able to get a very decent description of it. But you have to read it, it takes... Few minutes as opposed to just instantly knowing it. I mean, that's really the difference. Knowing it instantly like it was in your own brain.

• 39:53Peter Diamandis?

  Real quick, I've been getting the most unusual compliments lately on my skin. Truth is, I use a lotion every morning and every night religiously called One Skin. It was developed by four PhD women who determined a 10 amino acid sequence that is a senolytic that kills senile cells in your skin. And this literally reverses the age of your skin. And I think it's one of the most incredible products. I use it all the time. If you're interested, check out the show notes. I've asked my team to link to it below. All right, let's get back to the episode. Yeah, we just saw, we just saw two Nobel Prizes. Obviously, the prize that Jeffrey Hinton received and then the prize that Demis and John Jemper

• 40:37Peter Diamandis?

  received both at DeepMind related to AI and directly in AI, you know, in AlphaFold.

• 40:50Speaker 00

  Yes, it was very much for AI.

• 40:52Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, it was a great year. And here's the question. It seems to me like I would imagine in the next two to 10 years and then beyond, almost every Nobel Prize in Chemistry, Math and Physics will be enabled by or directly discovered by AI. Do you agree with that?

• 41:16Speaker 00

  Yes, I mean, right now, 95% of the Nobel Prizes in Medicine go to people with MDs. I think they should get rid of that requirement. Because computer scientists, they may not have studied anything, but they know computer science and they can develop AlphaFold, for example. We should study human beings.

• 41:42Peter Diamandis?

  50 years ago, AlphaFold. Yeah, I remember when I was in medical school, the huge grand challenge was can you predict the folding of a protein?

• 41:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:53Peter Diamandis?

  It was the unknown.

• 41:54Speaker 00

  And some people could do that, but they didn't do it very accurately. And we only did a few hundred thousand. Then one year we did, you know, 200 million.

• 42:03Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 42:05Speaker 00

  Proteins in one year. And then alpha proteo, we can actually design new proteins that bind to a given target protein. And we can actually create something, for example, that goes into a cell, determine whether or not it can divide cancerously. And if it divides cancerously, it will set a flag. And if that flag is set, it would destroy that cell. So basically, there would be a cure for cancer. And we can actually do that with alpha proteo. We have to actually design the protein. So there's a few steps left. But that's actually done a very large fraction of curing cancer, for example.

• 42:50Peter Diamandis?

  Let's switch on that note to the subject of longevity, escape velocity, something that we're both passionate about. In fact, I've got my longevity cup here, which says on the backside, what would you do with an extra 30 years of healthy life? Which is a lowball number.

• 43:11Speaker 00

  Well, also, I mean, when you get to 30 years of extra life, it's not like nothing's gonna happen during that 30 years.

• 43:18Peter Diamandis?

  That's the incredible part, right? It's like...

• 43:21Speaker 00

  I mean, every year, we're gonna be able to develop new things. For example, all of our organs, what do they do? They either put things into the bloodstream or they take things out. Except for the heart and brain, which is a different matter, but we can also deal with that. But like the lungs, put in oxygen, take out a carbon dioxide. And we're actually developing those. Going to a board meeting of the United Therapeutics next year, and we're actually developing lungs, hearts, kidneys...

• 43:57Peter Diamandis?

  Liver's kidneys, yeah.

• 43:58Speaker 00

  And it's only a few years away. So literally, all of our organs will be redeveloped, so they'll be much more reliable. Right now, people lose their lives because one of their organs doesn't function properly. So right now, you go through a year, and use up a year of your longevity.

• 44:22Speaker 00

  However, you're getting back approximately four months from scientific research.

• 44:30Speaker 00

  So you're only losing about eight months a year of your longevity. But by the early 2030s, let's say around 2032, depending on how diligent you are, you'll live a year, you give up a year of your longevity, but you'll get back a full year from scientific progress. Beyond that point, you'll actually get back more than a year, so you'll actually go backwards in terms of time. Now, that doesn't guarantee you'll live forever. You could have a healthy 20-year-old, you could compute his longevity as many, many decades, and he could die tomorrow, probably from an accident. We're also dealing with that.

• 45:09Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 45:10Speaker 00

  Self-driving cars, for example, have almost no accidents. We lose $40,000 a year from human drivers.

• 45:19Speaker 00

  Generally, self-driving cars will actually have no accidents.

• 45:25Speaker 00

  But anyway.

• 45:29Peter Diamandis?

  It's an amazing time. I just tweeted out this morning a quote from a paper by Dario Amodi, the CEO of Anthropic, who considers you one of the great visionaries. You're a hero of his. And he says, "It is my guess that powerful AI could at least 10x the rate of these biological discoveries, giving us the next 50 to 100 years of biological progress in the next five to 10 years."

• 45:59Speaker 00

  And it's gonna keep getting faster and faster. It's not like we just go through one step and suddenly we're going from getting back four months to a year to 12 months. It's gonna go faster and faster. And we're gonna actually deal with accidents and actually be able to back up our brain, back up our heart, and it's gonna be very hard to imagine how you could die. And people don't really want to die. You ask people, "Well, do you want to live to 120?" And people are negative about that because they think of people that they've met.

• 46:37Speaker 00

  They've met anybody 120, but they've met 95, 100 year olds. They don't want to be like that, but we won't be like that. And people actually, and people say, well, I don't want to live past 95. But when they get to be 95, and if they have sound mind and body, and they said, do you want to die tomorrow? The answer is no, unless they're in horrible pain. And obviously, we want to avoid that as well.

• 47:07Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I agree. Now, you've been very, again, part of your predictions, been very specific in saying that we're going to reach longevity escape velocity by the end of the year 2030. You know, I've had this conversation with George Church and David Sinclair, and they are placing it in the mid 2030s. That's still, for anybody listening, you know, that's the next six to 10 years. And so I think your advice is, is don't die from something stupid between now and then. Right?

• 47:41Speaker 00

  Right, exactly.

• 47:43Peter Diamandis?

  And so...

• 47:44Speaker 00

  We're still dependent on our own body, which is very problematic. We've got all these different organs. If one of them doesn't function quite correctly, and it's not your choice, you could die. But if you, I mean, I really believe if you can hold on for five, maybe 10 years, we can replace all of these problems that enable us to die more quickly than we want.

• 48:18Peter Diamandis?

  Did you see the, the recent news that scientists have been able to, to create the Drosophila's connectome? They were able to, to, using a scanning electron microscope, actually slice the brain of a Drosophila so thin, and then use AI to map all the synaptic connections. It's the first full brain that was actually mapped. And I find that amazing.

• 48:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, we're not gonna use

• 48:56Speaker 00

  actual brain matter to expand our brain. We're gonna use the kind of, I mean, already

• 49:06Speaker 00

  the brains of computers are much more intelligent. I mean, it can go trillions of calculations per second. Our own brain goes about 200 calculations per second. So the, we don't want to use our brain matter to expand our brain.

• 49:26Peter Diamandis?

  Yes, true, but understanding how the brain functions to avoid neurological.

• 49:33Speaker 00

  Kind of thing, I mean, literally every day there's fantastic progress. I just think about a year ago, it seems like ancient history.

• 49:44Peter Diamandis?

  Let's go a year forward. I am curious, being the oracle of the singularity, Ray, that's my nickname for you. What do you, what do you have for us for the year 2025? What do you think is likely? Or maybe you broaden it from 25, 26, 27. What do we, what are we likely to see in the next one to three years?

• 50:07Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, just based on conversations I've had in the last few days, we can already take an idea we have and transform it into a movie.

• 50:19Speaker 00

  Today, the movies are not quite there, wouldn't convince you that it's done by a person, although Google actually has a thing where you can actually take anything, like I fed in my entire book, just, just fed an entire book and said, have a podcast between two people that talks about the summary of the book.

• 50:44Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, it's called what? It's called Notebook LM, isn't it?

• 50:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:51Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, it's an amazing product.

• 50:54Speaker 00

  It actually got the right summary because there's a lot of ideas in the book, some of which are not that important if you want to talk about the summary of the book. It actually picked the right things and had two people that sounds human interacting about a summary of the book, which was better actually than most summaries that people have created on their own. That's today. Now suppose you say, well, okay, we got these two people, but I want to actually see them. I want them to actually be in some kind of situation and can't quite do that today, but that will happen within a year or two.

• 51:38Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I believe that. I just saw one of the avatar type companies has created your ability to create your avatar and then have it join a Zoom meeting and represent you in form and voice. And so you can be attending, you know, 100 or 500. You and I used to joke, I'll have, you know, Ray, two of 10, meet with Peter, three of 10 in the meeting tomorrow afternoon and be able to be in multiple places at once. That's pretty extraordinary.

• 52:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's gonna happen. I don't know if it's one year, two years, three years, but it's

• 52:20Peter Diamandis?

  It's in that timeframe. Yeah. Any other fun predictions or conversations you've had in the back halls of Google?

• 52:27Speaker 00

  Well, all the things that we do, I mean, what's really exciting to me, when we created pharmaceuticals, we go to a person who's had some experience and they have some idea of what might be a pharmaceutical interaction. And they worked for 10 years testing it on people. And maybe if they're lucky, they'll find some pharmaceuticals. Most of the pharmaceuticals on the market today were done that way. So when we found

• 53:09Speaker 00

  a COVID vaccine, they made a list of all the different mRNA sequences that might create COVID, and there's several billion of them.

• 53:22Speaker 00

  So you would actually test all several billion on humans. That's impossible to do. So they actually simulated that. And they simulated in two days, they tried all several billion in different ways. They could eliminate this patch and this patch. And they had found one thing that caused COVID. And they came up with a vaccine. They actually created that vaccine in two days. Now, we actually then tested it on humans. It took 10 months. We'll be able to eliminate that by testing it also by using simulated biology and do that in a few days.

• 54:07Speaker 00

  And we'll be able to actually test

• 54:10Speaker 00

  every type of medication we want against cancer and so on

• 54:15Speaker 00

  very quickly. And it'll be millions of times faster than what we've done.

• 54:22Peter Diamandis?

  Especially with Alprodeo, right?

• 54:25Speaker 00

  That's part of the process

• 54:30Speaker 00

  to actually come up with proteins that can do that. Human trials are slow, they're risky, they're expensive. It takes a long time. We'll be able to do this much more quickly, literally millions of times faster over the next few years. So I think we're going to actually, and already there's things on the market that were done that way for cancer and so on. I've got people who've got, hit cancer and actually trying these new things. It's going to be really fantastic over the next few years.

• 55:05Peter Diamandis?

  Did you see the movie Oppenheimer? If you did, did you know that besides building the atomic bomb at Los Alamos National Labs? That they spent billions on biodefense weapons, the ability to accurately detect viruses and microbes by reading their RNA. Well, a company called Viome exclusively licensed the technology from Los Alamos Labs to build a platform that can measure your microbiome and the RNA in your blood. Now, Viome has a product that I've personally used for years called Full Body Intelligence, which collects a few drops of your blood, spit and stool, and can tell you so much about your health. They've tested over 700,000 individuals and used their AI models to deliver members

• 55:48Peter Diamandis?

  critical health guidance, like what foods you should eat, what foods you shouldn't eat, as well as your supplements and probiotics, your biological age, and other deep health insights. And the results of the recommendations are nothing short of stellar. You know, as reported in the American Journal of Lifestyle Medicine, after just six months of following Viome's recommendations, members reported the following: a 36% reduction in depression, a 40% reduction in anxiety, a 30% reduction in diabetes, and a 48% reduction in IBS. Listen, I've been using Viome for three years. I know that my oral and gut health is one of my highest priorities.

• 56:29Peter Diamandis?

  Best of all, Viome is affordable, which is part of my mission to democratize health. If you want to join me on this journey, go to viome.com/peter. I've asked Naveen Jain, a friend of mine, who's the founder and CEO of Viome, to give my listeners a special discount. You'll find it at viome.com/peter. I want to go to a few questions from my Twitter audience in our last segment here. First question is, do you say please and thank you to your AI, to Gemini, when you're communicating with it or with ChatGPT or whatever you're using? Yeah, I haven't been convinced that they're human yet. Maybe that's just an old habit of mine.

• 57:13Peter Diamandis?

  I definitely say please and thank you. I talk to them and it's like, I feel like if they become conscious, I want them to know I was respectful from the beginning.

• 57:25Speaker 00

  Well, that's good. You're more advanced than I am. I'll get there.

• 57:30Peter Diamandis?

  All right, um, uh, next, uh, next question here. Uh, will humanities, this is from, uh, Anna Penart. Uh, will humanity split into two? An AI merged set of humans and then the original Homo sapiens species? What do you think? Are we gonna speciate?

• 57:51Speaker 00

  No, I mean, I asked 10, 15 years ago whether people would carry this around. And I would say maybe 80% said they would not.

• 58:04Speaker 00

  But that 80% is carrying this around today. I mean, how many people don't carry their cellphone around? It's approximately zero. If you actually go out and you don't have it, you gotta go back and get it.

• 58:17Peter Diamandis?

  Yes, that's true.

• 58:19Speaker 00

  So, the answer is, if you ask people today, some people would say no. But when we actually get there, the advantages are gonna be so great that everybody's gonna have it. And it's gonna be a lot easier because you won't actually have to carry this around. It'll be inside your mind.

• 58:37Peter Diamandis?

  Next question comes from Dustin Headed. He says, if you could upload your consciousness into a robot, and I think we will be able to, uh, would you choose to retain your human flaws or opt to be a perfect version of Ray?

• 58:51Speaker 00

  Well, right now, we have really just one body we can be. Virtual reality's given us a little bit of flexibility on that. But, uh, the type of bodies you can get with virtual reality aren't quite there. They will be there. Ultimately, we'll be able to create new types of bodies. We won't be limited to one.

• 59:13Peter Diamandis?

  That's a great point, right?

• 59:14Speaker 00

  Different bodies for different occasions. Uh, and you can have flaws or not have flaws and so on. Um, and what we'll accept for a body won't necessarily be even a human body. You'll be able, you'll be able to play games and so on. That's where you have a different type of body. We won't be limited to one body per person.

• 59:39Peter Diamandis?

  I love that. Torsten HQ asks, what are your recommendations for a teenager today for being ready for the future, right? University, trade, travel, hard skills, soft skills? That's a question I'm often asked as well, and I'm super curious. I have two 13-year-old boys. I don't think school's preparing them for the future. What's your recommendation?

• 1:00:01Speaker 00

  Right. Well, it's not just for teenagers. I mean, it's also for young kids and also for old kids like you and me. And you want to learn the passions that come from different types of activities and what it can then benefit. And then you can actually create new types of institutions with new types of intelligence that we don't have yet that we will have in the future.

• 1:00:40Speaker 00

  So you want to find out what is beneficial of everything that we put effort into. You want to be courageous. You want to follow your dreams, despite the skeptics. You want to see an exponential future.

• 1:01:04Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I answer that. I want my kids to find their passion and become passion-driven or purpose-driven in that regard. Ash Stewart asks, will AI or ASI lead to more centralization or decentralization? And that's a fascinating question on a government side, on an organizational side. How do you think about that?

• 1:01:30Speaker 00

  Well, what do you mean by centralization?

• 1:01:32Peter Diamandis?

  I think what they mean is would a government be enabling, enabled with AI, and I'm reading into their question here, because I don't, this is not my question,

• 1:01:48Peter Diamandis?

  like, you know, like China benefit more from AI? Or a decentralized government be more beneficial from AI?

• 1:02:01Peter Diamandis?

  You know, we had, you know, the idea of communism never could possibly have worked in a, with humans trying to run the supply-demand curve, and capitalism was the ideal marketplace for that. But the question is, is an all-knowing AI able to do a better job moving society in a direction?

• 1:02:23Speaker 00

  I mean, I think individual people will be able to do more than they can do today, because we'll have many more skills.

• 1:02:34Speaker 00

  And you brought up certain mathematical things. A lot of people in the audience may not have actually heard that before, but will be able to understand that. It won't necessarily have to go to a lot of different people.

• 1:02:52Speaker 00

  We're basically taking all of the creations of every living person who've ever demonstrated, and we'll actually have access to all of it inside our own mind.

• 1:03:08Speaker 00

  So it works both ways. But it is democratizing.

• 1:03:17Speaker 00

  And molecular assemblers, when we get to that, I think that's going to be more like the 2040s. We'll be able to build anything we want, anywhere. So the ability of one person is going to become more democratic as we move forward.

• 1:03:35Peter Diamandis?

  Here's a two-part question. The Turing test. I feel like we passed the Turing test a while ago. And the originally described Turing test, right?

• 1:03:50Peter Diamandis?

  And we just didn't notice. Do you agree with that?

• 1:03:54Speaker 00

  Yes, I said that Turing test is going to be, we're going to hear early versions that computers have passed the Turing test. We won't actually pay attention to that. By the time it becomes clear that computers can pass the Turing test, it'll have been said so many times that we'll dismiss it, oh, that's an old hat at this point. And we've already gone past that first point. We've already heard that GP4 or someone can handle the Turing test. By the time it becomes obvious, we won't, it won't be a question anymore.

• 1:04:38Speaker 00

  And it's probably like four or five years. We're in the midst of that now.

• 1:04:42Peter Diamandis?

  You know, we saw GPT-01 score an IQ of 120 about a year ago. We saw Anthropic Claude 3 score an IQ of 101. The average human IQ by definition is 100. I know that Google has-

• 1:05:05Speaker 00

  Right, but there's some people that have a higher IQ.

• 1:05:08Peter Diamandis?

  Sure.

• 1:05:08Speaker 00

  So it's not, it's not equal to all people, but that's going to, the average of so-called large language models is going to increase. So it's 120 today, it'll be 130 next time, 140-

• 1:05:22Peter Diamandis?

  So that's my question. Where do you think, where do you think we'll be next year?

• 1:05:25Speaker 00

  Uh-

• 1:05:29Peter Diamandis?

  Or a year from now? How fast is that escalation likely to be?

• 1:05:35Speaker 00

  I mean, I'd say over the next, by 2029, it's going to be far beyond what humans can do.

• 1:05:44Peter Diamandis?

  I think that is definitely true. But I, you know, I've heard projections that we'll hit 150. And the question becomes, you know, do you think that could happen by early next year or next year?

• 1:06:03Peter Diamandis?

  Which would put it in the top, you know, point zero zero zero one percent of humanity.

• 1:06:09Speaker 00

  And also it has some things that no human being can do at all. I mean, you can ask it any question and it can actually give you a very good response. If you don't like that response, you can ask it again. It'll say the same thing in different words, but also intelligently. No human being today can do that. So it has that advantage. It knows everything that anybody has ever dealt with.

• 1:06:38Peter Diamandis?

  Ray, I want to thank you for your mentorship, for your leadership, for your vision, for all that you've done.

• 1:06:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, thank you. It's been a two-way pleasure.

• 1:06:49Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I'm looking forward to the next 30 years together, maybe 100. We'll see. You know.

• 1:06:56Speaker 00

  Yes, well, the next five years is going to be pretty spectacular, so.

• 1:06:59Peter Diamandis?

  It's going to be unbelievably spectacular and it is such a pleasure to be alive. You know, the one reason I think we're living in a simulation is this is such the most extraordinary time ever to be alive. And the coincidence of being here now, well, hey.

• 1:07:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, but you talk to people that think it's a terrible time to be alive, so.

• 1:07:19Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, that's a problem, isn't it?

• 1:07:20Speaker 00

  They don't want to have children, so.

• 1:07:22Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, well, you know, I remember it was sitting down with you and Neil Jacobstein in the early days of Singularity where the idea of my first book, The Abundance: The Future is Better Than You Think, came into play. Because as we're sitting there talking about it, and I'm saying, wow, there is, technology is the force that turns everything from scarcity into abundance over and over and over again. And people's default mindset of fear and scarcity is blinding them to what's going on in the world.

• 1:07:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:08:00Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:02Speaker 00

  But that will continue.

• 1:08:05Peter Diamandis?

  Well, hopefully, we can help people see it a little bit differently. Ray, have a beautiful day, my friend, wherever you are in the cosmos. And, and thank you for spending the time with me. I hope we can do this again.

• 1:08:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely.