613. Nelson: Glory at Trafalgar (Part 6)

How did the British fleet prepare for war, on the morning of the Battle of Trafalgar? With the flags of both fleets flying and both Nelson and the French admiral Villeneuve glittering in their uniforms, how did the two fleets finally collide? Amidst the rivers of blood, the blast of canons, the flying splinters, and the swirling smoke, how did Nelson’s ships and sailors fare? And, cornered by three enemy ships, what would be the fate of Nelson aboard his Victory…? Join Dominic and Tom as they reach the glorious, tragic climax of their epic voyage through the life and battles of Horatio Nelson, at the height of the Napoleonic Wars. _______ Start generating your own greener electricity for less, with £500 off Solar. Visit https://www.hivehome.com/history for more information. T&Cs apply* *Output and savings varies by season, electricity usage and system size. Paid-for surplus requires an eligible SEG tariff. Offer for new customers only. Ends 17th November. Learn more at https://www.uber.com/onourway _______ Twitter: @TheRestHistory @holland_tom @dcsandbrook Video Editor: Jack Meek Social Producer: Harry Balden Assistant Producer: Aaliyah Akude Producer: Tabby Syrett Senior Producer: Theo Young-Smith Exec Producer: Dom Johnson Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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• 0:03Tom Holland?

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• 0:06Dominic Sandbrook?

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• 1:03Dominic Sandbrook?

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• 1:18Tom Holland?

  This episode is supported by Anthropic, the team behind Claude. Now, history's biggest leaps started as hard questions that people didn't want asked.

• 1:30Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah, there's a classic example of that at the end of the 15th century. And the hard question in particular was, what is out there beyond the Atlantic Ocean to the west? And as you will know, the man who found the answer to that question was the explorer Christopher Columbus. And he realizes, or rather, everybody else realizes, that there is a vast continent out there. And it is, of course, the Americas. So Anthropic knows the importance of questions. And it's why Anthropic is founded on one hard question above all. How can we ensure that the AI revolution really goes well for ordinary people?

• 2:01Tom Holland?

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• 2:15Dominic Sandbrook?

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• 2:24Dominic Sandbrook?

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• 2:45Tom Holland?

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• 3:00Dominic Sandbrook?

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• 3:24Dominic Sandbrook?

  This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Tom, as you know, I spent all my time working and in a dream world, I would clone a sort of Tom Holland who would do all the work for me. But sadly, technology has not advanced to that point. If it did, I wish there was a recruiting company that I could use to hire that clone for me.

• 3:45Tom Holland?

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• 4:13Dominic Sandbrook?

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• 4:37Tom Holland?

  The news spread quickly. Across the British fleet, the lookouts were pointing and crying out, and men were pounding up the ladders and pouring from the hatchways, cheering and shouting for all they were worth. There, eleven miles to the east, was the combined fleet, a jaw-dropping spectacle spread out across the horizon in the glow of the dawn. On the quarter-deck of the Victory, a cloud seemed to pass from Horatio Nelson's face. He had barely slept, but he felt free of care. This was his moment. Every ship he had ever taken, every voyage he had ever made, had led to this hour.

• 5:22Tom Holland?

  The Victory spread her sails. Then Nelson ordered his Signal lieutenant to hoist two messages. First came the order to form two divisions, as planned. And then came the signal they had all been waiting for: Prepare for battle. So begins the climactic chapter of Adventures in Time: Nelson, Hero of the Seas, which, Dominic, I'm sure you'd agree, must surely rank as the definitive life of this extraordinary man, written, of course, by yourself. And it has been a very long voyage, has it not, from Burnham Thorp, where we set out eleven episodes ago?

• 6:07Tom Holland?

  But now, we are reaching the glorious and tragic conclusion of this story. So would you like to set the scene for the listeners? I would, Tom. The date is the 21st of October, 1805, a Monday. It's five o'clock in the morning, and off the southwestern coast of Spain, Nelson's fleet have finally caught up with their quarry, the combined fleet of France and Spain, under Pierre Charles de Vileneuve and Federico Gravina.

• 6:37Dominic Sandbrook?

  And listeners who have been on this journey all the way from Burnham Thorp will remember what is at stake. So for months Nelson has been planning a war of annihilation. He intends to exploit the speed and firepower of the Royal Navy to sail right at the combined fleet in two assault columns, one led by his own ship, the Victory, and the other by his deputy Admiral Collingwood in the Royal Sovereign. And his goal is to smash the enemy line into pieces and then to mop them up one by one. If he wins, Britain's command of the seas, Britain's naval mastery will be confirmed for a generation. Britain will be definitively secure from invasion and they can pursue a naval blockade strategy that will eventually

• 7:21Dominic Sandbrook?

  bring Napoleon to his knees. But if he loses, then the combined fleet could regain control of the Mediterranean or could turn north, France and Spain could conceivably win control of the Channel and Napoleon's plans to invade Britain could be back on.

• 7:42Tom Holland?

  So massive, massive stakes. And of course, Dominic, the stakes are personally very high for Nelson as well. And it's so important to emphasise this because he is leading one of those two prongs of the attack in Victory. And ages ago, when we previously did a series on Trafalgar, we called him a Christian Achilles. He's a man of deep Christian faith, but he does also have this kind of Homeric quality, doesn't he? And I think there is something of Achilles in his determination to risk death because it will provide him with the opportunity for incredible glory, which isn't to say that he wants to

• 8:23Tom Holland?

  die. He does not want to die. We know from his letters to Emma that he was preparing, you know, if they win Trafalgar, he will lay down his command. He will live with Emma, they'll have children, all of that. But like Achilles, he would rather die a hero than duck his chance for glory. And so this is why we, in the previous episode, we described him preparing his And his journal on leaving England, he wrote, if it is God's good providence to cut short my days upon earth, I bow with the greatest submission, relying that he will protect those so dear to me that I leave behind. And you could imagine had Achilles been Christian, that's how he might have put it.

• 9:04Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah, there's a fatalism to Nelson, isn't there, which is obviously born of his years of experience in the navy. He knows just how horrendous naval battles are. I mean, the sort of tempest of splinters and shots and screaming and blood and.

• 9:16Tom Holland?

  Well, he's been hit on the head, hasn't he, by a beam. He's had his arm chopped off, you know, all kinds of things have gone on, his eyes gone.

• 9:23Dominic Sandbrook?

  Exactly. But the sort of paradox is that at the same time that he has this kind of fatalism, which will recur in this episode, there is a sense of absolute confidence in his ships and his men. You know, everything in his life, all the years of training, all the years of service, all the battles, everything has prepared him for this moment. And yes, he is only one man and a brilliant commander, but behind him is an unequaled military machine, that the most lethal killing machine in the world, and one that is based on what he stands for. At Trafalgar is the economic and industrial might and modernity of industrial Britain.

• 10:03Dominic Sandbrook?

  Because of that, he knows that his men are fitter, quicker, better trained, more adept than their French and Spanish opponents, and indeed his French and Spanish opponents know it themselves and have frankly and freely said so. So when he gives the command, this machine, you know, it's like terrible cliched, like a clockwork machine kind of springs into action. People are stowing away the hammocks, the last of the furniture, the surgeons are kind of getting out their instruments. If you've seen Master and Commander, the film, there's a sort of moment when they're beating to quarters and everyone rushing into action.

• 10:39Tom Holland?

  Yeah.

• 10:40Dominic Sandbrook?

  That's what this is like.

• 10:41Tom Holland?

  And there's kind of dread, isn't there, because they know what it is to be in a battle. But also the excitement of people who have been kind of training all their lives for this moment.

• 10:51Dominic Sandbrook?

  I mean, you can imagine the the atmosphere. Is worn of mingled, there must be a little bit of fear and dread, but also tremendous anticipation. Finally, after all these months, after years of waiting.

• 11:04Tom Holland?

  And confidence, I would guess.

• 11:06Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yes, exactly. So let's go through the timeline. At seven thirty in the morning, Nelson signals to his frigate captains to come aboard the Victory. The frigates are smaller ships. For those people not massively familiar with the Royal Navy.

• 11:19Tom Holland?

  Unlike us.

• 11:20Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yes, we're tremendously familiar.

• 11:22Tom Holland?

  With our tremendous knowledge.

• 11:23Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yes, exactly. Yeah, undoubtedly. Is it not the Chatham, in the Chatham High Street episode? Did we not confuse a destroyer and a battleship? Is that not the great sin that we committed?

• 11:35Tom Holland?

  Few listeners noted that deliberate mistake and good on them. I like to keep them on their toes.

• 11:39Dominic Sandbrook?

  We were just trying to make it accessible, weren't we? I think that was what we were trying to do.

• 11:42Tom Holland?

  For the non naval people.

• 11:44Dominic Sandbrook?

  Exactly. So anyway, Nelson signals to his frigate captains to come aboard the Victory. He is going to need them to signal his orders. The chief frigate commander, whom we met in the previous episode, bringing the news of Vilner's movements to Nelson at Merton, is a guy called Henry Blackwood. And Henry Blackwood says to Nelson, why don't you come across to my frigate and command the fleet from there? Why risk your life at the head of the line? Why not, you know, be at a safe distance, like a kind of First World War commander, and direct the fleet from there? And a lot of commanders did do this kind of thing. Not all did, but it was not totally unknown. And Nelson said, no way. And Blackwood must have known Nelson would say, no way.

• 12:26Dominic Sandbrook?

  You know, Nelson would be bound to put himself in harm's way from the front. But it's a sign of just how dangerous they know Nelson's plan is to sail directly at the enemy without giving yourself the opportunity to fire first.

• 12:40Tom Holland?

  But that's precisely why Nelson has to do it, because it is so dangerous. He cannot possibly ask his men to throw themselves into the jaws of hell without leading them there himself. And in fact, you know, he wants to be visible. This is what he's always done. Nelson loves a bit of bling, so he's there in all his paraphernalia. He's got all those kind of the stars of knighthood sewn onto his jacket, his epaulettes gleaming. And actually, some of his men on board the ship say, yeah, I mean, brilliant that you're here, but why don't you just wear a slightly less showy coat? But he's, you know, he's not going to do that. He wants to draw attention to himself. I guess that what makes this.

• 13:23Tom Holland?

  Even more risky for Nelson personally is that he, like all the other officers on board the ship, are not allowed to duck. The seamen can duck, but officers cannot, no matter how many sharpshooters, no matter how many grape shot. I mean, just insane courage.

• 13:40Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah. So he's got his nice coat on and on they go. The gap is 11 miles and closing very slowly, but it's closing every minute.

• 13:49Tom Holland?

  It's basically walking speed, isn't it?

• 13:51Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah. So the combined fleet is sort of spread out on the horizon. It's a very faint breeze, so they are moving exactly in a very slow and deliberate and stately way, the kind of the drums beating as they kind of head across the waves. Nelson is surveying them through his telescope. He can see that the combined fleet is basically sailing in slight disorder. It's not a terribly well organised operation. So they're kind of ragged crescent and they're going from south to north. So about 12 ships from the front is the Vile Nost flagship, the Bucentor, and then about six ships behind it or so is Gravina's flagship, the Santa Anna, and then there's another 15 French or Spanish ships. Now, some of these

• 14:34Dominic Sandbrook?

  ships are absolute leviathans, as we'll discuss, but Nelson is confident, you know, we have the firepower and the skill to beat them. Eight o'clock, the victories cook serves breakfast. A few men are too nervous to eat it, but most of them absolutely ravenous. A sailor said afterwards, they felt like lions anxious to be at it, which gives you a sense of the mood.

• 14:59Tom Holland?

  And they're given wine, aren't they? Not grog?

• 15:01Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yes, they're given wine. Would you have a glass of wine before going to battle? I suppose you would.

• 15:05Tom Holland?

  Yeah, I certainly would.

• 15:06Dominic Sandbrook?

  So yes, there's a real sense of excitement. A lieutenant on the Ajax said, all seemed deeply anxious to come to close quarters with the enemy. And most of what we know about the mood in the fleet comes from officers, obviously, because they tend to be more literate and they wrote letters and things. So you have a sense of them across the fleet, people kneeling to say their last prayers, or they give keepsakes to their friends, or they write farewell notes to their families. And often, some of these notes, I have to say, are incredibly moving. So there's a young midshipman on the Royal Sovereign on Collingwood's flagship called John Aikenhead, who wrote to his mum and dad, "Should I, my dear parents, fall in defence of my king, let that thought console you. I feel not the least dread on my spirits.

• 15:47Dominic Sandbrook?

  O my parents, sisters, brother, dear grandfather, grandmother and aunt, believe me, ever yours." And here's another story. This is a teenage midshipman called Robert Smith on the Victory, on Nelson's flagship, who did not survive the battle. He wrote to what he called his dear and honoured parents. He says, "I can't wait to face the enemy of my country." And he says, "If the worst happens to me, then you dearest of mothers, consider that your affectionate son could not die in a more glorious cause." And actually, the one that I always think is really moving is Henry Black with the frigate captain. He wrote to his wife, "Adieu, my dearest wife. Your Henry will not disgrace his name, and if he dies, his last breath will be devoted to the dearest of dear wives.

• 16:32Dominic Sandbrook?

  Take care of my boy. Make him a better man than his father."

• 16:37Tom Holland?

  Yeah, very moving. So, so I mean, all of them have loved ones on their mind. And of course, Nelson also has loved ones on his mind.

• 16:45Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yes. So he's in his great cabin, isn't he? Which, if you go to Portsmouth, you can obviously see it. It's the highlights of going to the Victory. And he must, the furniture's been taken out, so he must have been sitting on the floor, effectively, with his left hand.

• 16:58Tom Holland?

  Yeah. And as in the Battle of Copenhagen, his portraits of Emma have been taken down. And this time as well, he has a portrait of Horatia. And we know they are absolutely uppermost in his thoughts as the Victory glides ever so slowly towards the battle line.

• 17:15Dominic Sandbrook?

  So he writes one last prayer, doesn't he, Tom? I'm sure you would love to read that.

• 17:19Tom Holland?

  Oh, I would. I mean, this is so moving. "May the great God whom I worship grant to my country and for the benefit of Europe in general, a great and glorious victory, and may no misconduct in anyone tarnish it, and may humanity after victory be the predominant feature in the British fleet. For myself individually, I commit my life to him that made me, and may his blessing light upon my endeavours for serving my country faithfully. To him I resign myself and the just cause which is entrusted to me to defend. Amen, amen, amen." And then, of course, Emma and Horatia. And we talked about this in the episode we did, what, about kind of four months ago on Emma Hamilton, that he

• 18:03Tom Holland?

  Writes a codicil to his will. I leave Emma Lady Hamilton therefore a legacy to my king and country that they will give her an ample provision to maintain her rank in life. I also leave to the beneficence of my country my adopted daughter Horatio Nelson Thompson, and I desire she will use in future the name of Nelson only. These are the only favours I ask of my king and country at this moment when I am going to fight their battle. And how king and country respond to this request, we will see in next week's bonus when we look at what happened to Emma and Horatio after Trafalgar.

• 18:45Dominic Sandbrook?

  So if you're an Emma Hamilton fan like Tom, you will want to be a member of the Rest is History Club and you can of course join Tom in that crew at therestishistory.com.

• 18:54Tom Holland?

  Or actually, if you're not a fan of Emma Hamilton, because in which case you'll enjoy the bonus all the more.

• 18:58Dominic Sandbrook?

  Right, yes, I guess so. So it's now 10 o'clock in the morning. They are a few miles from their quarry and everything has been prepared. The decks have been cleared, they have started watering the timbers to prevent against fire. The red coated marines have gone to their posts on deck, the gun crews have gone to their stations, they have powder and cartridges and shot. And in his makeshift operating theatre, which is called the surgeon's cockpit down in the bowels of the ship, the ship's doctor William Beatty has laid out his scalpels and his bandages and his bottles of vinegar and all of this kind of thing. And I'm sad to say we will be returning to that particular cockpit later in the episode.

• 19:41Tom Holland?

  He will have been warming his sores, won't he? Because that was something that Nelson insisted on, having had his arm sawn off.

• 19:48Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yes, he said it was too cold and that was the thing that he remembered. So below decks, the gun crews, they would have stripped their waists, they have tied handkerchiefs around their heads and ears to muffle the sound of the guns. They will be, some of them are dancing a jig, the band are playing things like, you know, "Braut Britannia, God Save the King", "Heart of Oak", all of these kind of patriotic songs to get them in the mood. Nelson for the last time tours the ship. He says to his men, he shakes hands with his left hand with his men. He says, do not fire until absolutely sure of your object. In other words, hold your fire until you see the whites of their eyes.

• 20:30Dominic Sandbrook?

  And he has never seemed more calm or more confident. My noble lads, he says, this will be a glorious day for England, whoever lives to see it. And on every ship in the fleet, there are similar scenes, the captains giving these incredibly inspiring speeches to their men, saying, you know, we will, we don't back down, we don't surrender, I know you will do well. You know, this is going to be a great day. Enjoy it, get out there and have fun. Exactly. It is like a bit of a sort of football manager before a big game kind of atmosphere. So it's 11 o'clock now. Nelson takes his place on the quarter deck of the victory and beside him are the ship's captain, Thomas Hardy, the master of the ship, Thomas Atkinson, the first lieutenant, John Quilliam, and the frigate captain, Henry Blackwood.

• 21:15Dominic Sandbrook?

  And they can now see the combined fleet clearly. They can see the decorations on the French and Spanish ships, the gun ports, they can see the little figures moving about on deck. And they can see the size of some of their opponents. So yeah, they're monsters, aren't they? Gravina's flagship, the Principio di Asturias, has 112 guns. The Santissima Trinidad, which Nelson had faced, a Cape St Vincent, is it? I think a Cape St Vincent, 140 guns. So the biggest ship on earth. Four decks. Four decks, an absolute monster. So in total, Villeneuve and Gravina have 33 ships. They have 2,600 guns and 30,000 men.

• 21:57Dominic Sandbrook?

  Nelson, much smaller in men, 17,000 men, smaller in guns, barely 2,000 guns and 27 ships. That's how the British like it, isn't it? To be outnumbered. That's how we love it. So as we discussed in the previous episode, I mean, this is an amazing fact and cannot be hammered home too strongly. The two fleets at Trafalgar had 10 times as much firepower as all the armies at Waterloo put together.

• 22:25Dominic Sandbrook?

  I mean, that, you know, imagine being at the centre of that, the noise and the smoke and the, yeah, it's very First World War, actually.

• 22:31Tom Holland?

  There's never been anything like it in history, right?

• 22:34Dominic Sandbrook?

  No, never has. Certainly two industrialising nations in Britain and France and a third in Spain, never have they committed so much of their resources to create a kind of killing zone of this explosive power.

• 22:49Tom Holland?

  It's kind of science fiction quality for everyone who's going to have to live through it.

• 22:53Dominic Sandbrook?

  It's clear that the French and Spanish are girding their loins for a fight. Nelson says to Blackwood, "The enemy are putting a good face on it." And Blackwood says rather ominously, "Indeed, sir, they have a coolness I am sorry to witness."

• 23:05Tom Holland?

  But actually, on board, certainly some of the Spanish ships, there's anxiety. So one of the captains says, "The fleet is doomed." And also on Villeneuve's flagship, it had just recently been struck by lightning. And so there are lots of people there who think that's an omen too. So I think there is a sense of trepidation on the combined fleet.

• 23:25Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah, I agree with you, but I think we shouldn't be too harsh on poor old Villeneuve. Villeneuve, who got a terrible press in Paris, didn't he? People said he was a coward and all of this, which he absolutely wasn't. He has dressed, just like Nelson has, very conspicuously, he's got a Parisian chic, naval chic, and his sort of green trousers and gleaming back boots and a big blue coat. And there's a scene before the battle where they parade the Imperial Eagle around the decks.

• 23:49Tom Holland?

  Yeah, which has been given to them personally by Napoleon.

• 23:52Dominic Sandbrook?

  By Napoleon, exactly. I think designed by Napoleon, actually. And they're all shouting, "Vive l'empereur, vive l'empereur." And then the Bucentor signals to the combined fleet, "Open fire when the enemy are within range." And that moment is coming closer and closer now. It's 11.30. The British fleet are just a couple of miles away. They have unfelled their flags. So if you imagine the scene, if there's a Hollywood screenwriter listening to this. The big, the cross of St George, the Union Jack, the victory is flying the white ensign, which is basically a combination of the two, which is Nelson's personal flag as an Admiral of the White.

• 24:30Tom Holland?

  Magnificent, an Admiral of the White.

• 24:33Dominic Sandbrook?

  It's a great spectacle. Now, they've divided into their two columns. Collingwood's column is now ahead and Nelson is impressed that Collingwood is making such great progress. He says, see how that noble fellow Collingwood carries his ship into action. And at that point, he calls over to a Signal Lieutenant called John Pascoe and he says, one more signal to inspire the men. England confides that every man will do his duty.

• 25:01Tom Holland?

  And this is why he, before he left, he'd made sure that all the ships in his fleet had the most up to date Signal book, isn't it? For just such a moment.

• 25:10Dominic Sandbrook?

  But Nelson has made a mistake. There is no easy signal for the word confides. And so Pascoe hesitates and said, says to him, confide, sir, really? What about expects? And Nelson says, that will do, Pascoe, make it directly. And so a moment later, 31 flags go up the Mison Topgallant mainmast. I'm sure you can picture which particular mast that is.

• 25:35Tom Holland?

  Yeah.

• 25:36Dominic Sandbrook?

  And that signal is of course, England expects that every man will do his duty. And to quote myself in The Adventures in Time, to inspire young readers, in those words, there was an extraordinary magic, as if Nelson was speaking personally to every man in the fleet, putting an arm around his shoulders and urging him to do his best.

• 26:00Tom Holland?

  I mean, I've got to say, expects is much better than confides.

• 26:03Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah, it is. It is. Exactly. It's a, it's a simple, direct word. And there's a sense of, there's a little bit of a sense of obligation there, isn't there? Which people would want to rise to.

• 26:13Tom Holland?

  Yeah. Again, it's like the football manager.

• 26:15Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah. One sailor said, that signal gave us a determination to conquer, which is exactly as it should be. But it's not the last signal, is it? So there's two more signals at 11:44.

• 26:25Tom Holland?

  Yes. So one of the signals is that the fleet should prepare to anchor the night after the battle. And the reason for that is that Nelson, who, you know, from his earliest days on the ship as a midshipman, had been recording weather patterns. He can read the sea and the weather like nobody else. And he can sense that a storm is brewing. And the kind of the incipient storm is manifesting itself in quite a strong swell that is coming in from the west. And for now, this is good news for the British fleet because it's kind of urging them on. So Collingwood, you know, rushing on towards the French fleet. He's able to do that because he has this swell behind him. And it's also very bad news

• 27:08Tom Holland?

  for the combined fleet, because every time there is a swell that comes through, it rolls their ships up and down, up and down. And that in turn means it's very difficult for their cannon to aim directly. I mean, essentially, it's only for a few seconds that they will be level with the British ships. And this ensures that essentially when they start firing, they don't really have accuracy. So that's, that's good news for Nelson. So that's the first signal, you know, looking ahead to when the French hopefully have been beaten. But for now, there is, of course, the prospect of battle. And so the second signal, unsurprisingly, is engage the enemy more closely, because that pell-mell battle,

• 27:51Tom Holland?

  getting up close, creating chaos, that is what Nelson's battle plan is all about.

• 27:57Dominic Sandbrook?

  So we're coming very close to midday now. Henry Blackwood, the frigate captain, is now preparing to leave to go back to his frigate. And he says farewell to Nelson. He says, I trust my lord that on my return to the victory, I shall find your lordship well and in possession of 20 prizes, meaning 20 captured enemy ships, which is Nelson's goal. And Nelson says to him, God bless you, Blackwood. I shall never speak to you again. Which is an extraordinary fatalistic thing to say. And biographers have sometimes said, you know, did Nelson have a kind of presentiment of his own demise? I mean, maybe it's the kind of remark, theatrical remark, that if he'd won, Blackwood would have forgotten it.

• 28:34Tom Holland?

  I mean, I think it's the kind of comment that he is recorded as having made before battles quite a lot. It's almost like kind of touch wood, isn't it?

• 28:43Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yes, I think it is. 1156, Collingwood's Royal Sovereign, the head of that column is now within range of the French guns. And the gun captains on the French ship Fugue give the order to fire. Ballonquet, pointe, envoyé!

• 28:59Tom Holland?

  And this is devastating for the Royal Sovereign, isn't it? Because as it's approaching, it can't fire back. The British can only aim their own guns once they are up alongside the French ships. But for now, as they approach it, the French are just able to blast the prow of Collingwood's ship.

• 29:14Dominic Sandbrook?

  But Collingwood, you know, undeterred, unwavering, kind of leads his column right into the kind of tempest of enemy fire. He's getting broadsides from two sides, from the Santa Anna and the Fugue. But, you know, that's his job. That's what, that's what he's all about. And he's followed by the other ships from his division. And there's a story that I always think is too good to be true. Because the next ship is a ship called the Belle Il, an English ship, under William Hargood. And he overtakes a heavier ship called the Tonneau under Charles Tyler. And as they're passing each other, Tyler shouts to William Hargood, "A glorious day for old England!"

• 29:54Dominic Sandbrook?

  It's just like, it's brilliant how they're performing exactly as they, yeah, they feel they have to live up to this. You know, that's the wonderful thing. There's no sense of irony about this for them. They can, the complete sincerity.

• 30:06Tom Holland?

  Well, also, they know this is a Titanic battle that, that will live in the annals of history. And they want, you know, they want to be in those annals.

• 30:13Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah, I mean, quite right, and they are. So Nelson is watching with admiration from the victory as Collingwood's division leads the way. His own moment has almost come. The victory is now very close to Villeneuve's flagship, the Bucentor. There are shots beginning to whistle overhead, but he says, you know, "Hold your fire, hold your fire", and his gun crews are holding their nerve. And then three enemy ships open fire on him at once, the Sainte Augustine, the Heroes and the Saintissima Trinidad. So that's about 200 guns.

• 30:40Tom Holland?

  That's a lot of guns.

• 30:41Dominic Sandbrook?

  Firing into Nelson's ship. And the air is already full of smoke and splinters and blood and whatnot, and yet still Nelson waits. He has got up to Villeneuve's flagship now and he's slowly turning, turning, taking the enemy fire, waiting for the perfect moment to return it.

• 31:04Dominic Sandbrook?

  But that means, of course, he's absorbing enormous punishment. And because he's on the quarter deck, you know, he's in the line of fire. So at one point, you know, the quarter deck's quite small. At one point, his secretary, who's a bloke called John Scott, is talking to Captain Hardy when an enemy cannonball just smashes into the middle of him and basically blows him to pieces.

• 31:23Tom Holland?

  These kind of two legs are left standing, aren't they?

• 31:25Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah, it's a ghastly scene. And two sailors take the, basically take the rest of him and throw it over the side. And Nelson, he kind of glances over his shoulder and he says, oh, is that poor Scott that's gone? Poor fellow.

• 31:36Tom Holland?

  Yeah, very Duke of Wellington at the Battle of Waterloo.

• 31:39Dominic Sandbrook?

  Very Duke of Wellington. Then the ship's wheel explodes in a kind of cloud of splinters. There's another shot that kills eight Marines in one go on the poop deck. And Nelson says to the Marine captain, spread out your men, you know, don't pack them together because if they're, you know, they'll be more easily killed if they're packed together. And there are more and more shots kind of hammering into the quarter deck. One of them famously ricochets off Hardy's shoe and rips off the buckle. And, you know, it's very lucky for Hardy, basically could have lost his foot. And Nelson says to Hardy, this is too warm work, Hardy, to last long. Meaning, we can't take much more of this. Because they've now lost, what, about 50 men, dead and wounded on the deck of the Victory. Their sail has

• 32:23Dominic Sandbrook?

  been reduced to ribbons, the wheel has been destroyed. But while that has been happening, they have completed the turn and they are ready to fire.

• 32:32Tom Holland?

  And so Victory has 50 cannons trained on the Bussentor and smash. The French flagship seems almost to kind of crumple in submission before this firepower. And now it is the turn of the French flagship. Its deck to be covered with bodies, soaked in blood, its guns wrecked, its officers smashed to pieces. Although Villeneuve survives, doesn't he? And it is a scene of the utmost devastation. And that is what Nelson's entire battle plan had been. This is the chaos that he has created on the assumption that he will be able to capitalise on it. And so it has turned out.

• 33:14Dominic Sandbrook?

  But we can't, you know, emphasise too much just how bloody and horrific this is. I mean, this is not, you know, anyone who thinks, oh, I'd love to see the Battle of Trafalgar. I mean, it's an unbelievably traumatizing and horrific scene. So we mentioned one of the guys who wrote a letter to his parents, Robert Smith, dying. He was killed by enemy shot and they ripped off both of his legs. Hardy's clerk was killed on his way down to the surgeon. The marine captain, Charles Adair, was killed while pulling his men back to try to shield them from the fire. But all the time, this is the amazing thing. They stick to their guns, they stick to their posts. This is what they've been trained for, to absorb all this enemy punishment. And they do it because they know they will win, because they are winning.

• 33:59Tom Holland?

  Well, the deck is awash with blood. But below deck, the gunners there are kind of much more protected by, you know, they're not as exposed. And so therefore, they are able to continue just pounding and pounding and pounding. And the British gunners are just much more efficient, much quicker than their French adversaries. I mean, that's what basically makes them so lethal.

• 34:21Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah, but it's not over yet. Because, of course, the victory is still kind of isolated at the head of its column. Three enemy ships at once kind of converge on the victory, hemming it in, and in an attempt to kind of break out of their deadly embrace. He drives the victory into one of the French 74s, which is called the Rude d'Ute, and he sends the Rude d'Ute swinging backwards. So there's more shots on every side. The Rude d'Ute is preparing to board, because of course, that was Villeneuve's plan. Turn the sea battle into a land battle, use all the infantry on our ships to get aboard the British ships and create havoc. So the Rude d'Ute's men are throwing grappling hooks, they're pulling the two ships together, getting ready to launch their assault. And

• 35:04Dominic Sandbrook?

  there's kind of loads of musket fire coming in, and a hail of grenades. There are clouds of black smoke coming from above the victory. And then, Tom, comes the moment. And maybe you would like to read from the earth-shatteringly definitive account.

• 35:21Tom Holland?

  Yes, Adventures in Time by Dominic Sandbrook. On the quarterdeck, Nelson and Hardy were deep in conversation, as so often in the past. On his admiral's coat, the golden buttons gleamed in the sunlight. High above the deck of the Rude d'Ute, a French marksman leveled his musket.

• 35:41Tom Holland?

  Through the smoke, he could see a flash of guilt as two little figures moved on the British flagship. On the victory, Nelson turned to speak to Hardy. The marksman's finger tightened on the trigger. It was one fifteen in the afternoon. In Burnham Thorpe, the birds were singing. The marksman fired.

• 36:04Tom Holland?

  We'll take a break.

• 36:09Dominic Sandbrook?

  This episode is brought to you by Uber. Now, do you know that feeling when someone shows up for you when you need it most?

• 36:17Tom Holland?

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• 36:20Dominic Sandbrook?

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• 36:26Tom Holland?

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• 36:32Dominic Sandbrook?

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• 36:39Tom Holland?

  Uber, on our way. Download the app today.

• 36:46Dominic Sandbrook?

  This episode is brought to you by TikTok. We obviously love history here. It's always a treat to make a new discovery, especially in unexpected ways.

• 36:56Tom Holland?

  Which is exactly what happens on TikTok. Like, you know coffee, you make it, add milk, drink it. Nothing more, except...

• 37:07Dominic Sandbrook?

  Except when you hop on TikTok, you don't just learn how to make an authentic cappuccino, you can also discover videos about how in the 1700s, people would pour their coffee into saucers to let it cool before drinking it.

• 37:22Tom Holland?

  And suddenly, you're imagining how people lived, drank, socialised. Makes you wonder what will baffle historians about us. And that's the joy of TikTok. You look for one thing and find yourself somewhere completely different.

• 37:37Dominic Sandbrook?

  Your next discovery is waiting on TikTok. Visit tiktok.com/discovermore.

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• 39:51Tom Holland?

  Hello and welcome back to a very emotional Rest is History. Dominic, a shot has rung out from the French ship, the Rédutable, but the clamour of the battle being what it is, nobody has heard it. And it's only when Hardy, who's been kind of pacing ahead, turns back to look for Nelson, that he realises what has happened. Because he sees Nelson lying on his side, he's in excruciating agony. He's propping himself up with his left hand. And Hardy can see that a musket ball has hit Nelson on the left shoulder, punched through his spine and is buried inside his body.

• 40:35Tom Holland?

  And Hardy and other sailors rush to his side. And Nelson looks up at Hardy and says, I believe they have done it at last. My backbone is shot through. And Hardy orders men to pick the admiral up, to carry him down to the surgeon's cockpit. And of course, every step that the men carrying Nelson take, it's absolute agony for Nelson himself. And such is his pain that he asks for a handkerchief to cover his face because he, you know, he doesn't want to alarm his men with how seriously injured he is. He knows that probably he's dying. And so he's taken down into the cockpit and there in the shambles,

• 41:20Tom Holland?

  he is laid down.

• 41:21Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah, it's a terrible place, actually, the cockpit. It's very dark, it's lit by these kind of shaking lanterns. There's a smell of sweat and blood. There's blood everywhere, there's blood on the timbers. There's the bodies of wounded men everywhere. You know, they can hear up ahead the roar of the guns, the cheering and screaming and whatnot. And whenever the ship lurches, you know, some of the wounded men cry out in pain. And they lie Nelson down on a midshipman's cot and they take off his clothes. The surgeon, Dr Beatty, William Beatty, comes at once. And they can tell from his face right away, you know, what this means. And Nelson says to Beatty,

• 42:03Dominic Sandbrook?

  Ah, Mr. Beatty, you can do nothing for me. I have but a short time to live. My back is shot through. And Beatty examines him. Now, around Nelson are some of his closest comrades, his chaplain, Alexander Scott, who will basically not leave his side now for weeks to come, and his steward, William Chevalier, and others. And Beatty is fighting back tears, and he looks at Nelson, he says, "My lord, unhappily for our country, there is nothing that can be done for you." And Nelson says, "Doctor, I told you so. Doctor, I am gone."

• 42:34Dominic Sandbrook?

  Now, what happens next? There are different accounts. Probably the best version of this, I think, is in John Sugden's extraordinary biography, which kind of sifts all the evidence. Nelson, throughout the afternoon, is talking about Lady Hamilton, isn't he, Tom? "Remember me to Lady Hamilton. Remember me to Horatio. I have to leave Lady Hamilton, my adopted daughter Horatio, as a legacy to my country." It's interesting that he still says at this point, "my adopted daughter." Everybody in that room knows that she's his daughter and not adopted. But he's still-

• 43:07Tom Holland?

  It's the muscle memory, isn't it? He's been saying it over and over again. But, I mean, they're on his mind. They are the people he keeps returning to. And this pressing anxiety that if he dies, what will happen to them?

• 43:19Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah. Now, right from the beginning, he says to Beatty, "Don't waste your time with me. You know, I'm done for. Spend your time on the men who really need you." What's happened is his backbone has been shattered by this musket ball, and he's losing all sense in his lower body. But whenever the ship moves, whenever the guns crash overhead, he kind of gets great wince and agony. He is being suffocated by heat and by the darkness. He's constantly trying to throw off the sheet they put over him. And he keeps whispering, "Fan, fan, drink, drink." And they bring him some water and lemonade. But he's so weak, he can barely sip, you know, more than a few kind of drops. And the Reverend Scott kneels and prays with him for a little bit, but it's clear, you know,

• 44:04Dominic Sandbrook?

  the end is coming. Nelson here is cheering up ahead and he starts to ask for Hardy. Where's Hardy? Bring me Hardy. You have the sense of him, I think, that he is clinging to life until he knows. He's desperate for the victory that he has craved for so long, and he will not give up until he hears the news. And actually, the bloke who's a few feet away from him, lying wounded, is John Pascoe, the Signals Lieutenant, the England expects guy, who's been badly wounded by grape shot. And Pascoe whispers to him, if there's cheering, that must be a good sign. The French must be surrendering.

• 44:37Tom Holland?

  And they are, aren't they? Because up above the Redoubler has been overpowered by the Temeraire, which is the ship in Turner's great painting. And by half past one in the afternoon, about 500 of the crew of the Redoubler are lying dead. And so the captain hauls down their flag. And probably the sniper who shot Nelson, by this point, he's dead, shot by the British Marines from the deck of the Victory.

• 45:09Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah. But of course Nelson can't really know all the details of this. So that's what's making him anxious and why he's always asking for Hardy. And Hardy, because he's in the thick of the battle, doesn't come down until about 2.30. And he clasps Nelson's hand. He's shocked when he sees Nelson's condition. Nelson, who's clearly in agony, says, Well, Hardy, how goes the day with us? And Hardy says, Very well, my lord. He says, So far, we've captured about 12 of 14 of their ships, and I have no doubt of giving the rest a drubbing. And Nelson says, I'm a dead man, Hardy. I'm going fast. It will be all over with me soon. Come nearer to me. Pray let my dear Lady Hamilton have my hair and all other things belonging to me. And Hardy sits and holds his hand for a little bit and Nelson, who is, you know,

• 45:54Dominic Sandbrook?

  Hardy is clearly completely distraught, this huge and terrifying man actually. And Nelson is sort of passing in and out of consciousness.

• 46:02Tom Holland?

  And the reason that Hardy feels able to sit with Nelson is essentially because by this point, the battle is no longer in the balance. The British have clearly won. I mean, it has to be said that the French and the Spanish have fought with tremendous courage, but you know, as Vilneuve all along had, that would happen, they had been outgunned by the British because the British are just too good to confront at sea. And Vilneuve himself paves with great gallantry, with great courage. He remains at his post to the very end, probably hoping for heroic death, but it doesn't come.

• 46:41Tom Holland?

  And so around 2.30, he too hauls down his colours and his ship is boarded and the British take the eagle that had been given to Vilneuve personally by Napoleon and they toss it overboard.

• 46:56Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah, a very striking symbolic moment. Some of the combined fleet fought on for a few hours more, but by late afternoon, it was all over. And it's a, it's the vindication of everything of Nelson's entire career. Because I guess it's not just, it's not just about Nelson, is it? It's about the sailors, the shipyards, the workshops, the factories. I mean, we did our famous tour of Chatham High Street. It's what, it's what that represents. It's, it's the people who make the sails. It's the seamstresses, it's the clerks and the chemists and the carpenters and the blacksmiths and Pitt and Collingwood. It's because this was a total war in which the entire nation was mobilised and they were

• 47:39Dominic Sandbrook?

  mobilised for this moment in time, for this point.

• 47:42Tom Holland?

  But I would say it goes even, you know, it's even more than that. This is, this is an investment that goes back decades. And it's probably the most sustained, the most effective investment ever undertaken up to that point by a nation state. And essentially, if the British government today wants an example of how to get things done and how to make long-term investment pay off, then I think looking to Trafalgar and seeing what made it possible would be a very good lesson because Trafalgar was one. Decades before.

• 48:19Dominic Sandbrook?

  I have an image in my mind, Tom, of Rachel Reeves and Richard Philipson and like we're listening to this podcast with tears streaming down, tears of patriotic enthusiasm streaming down their cheeks because I'm sure this is exactly the kind of thing they they love. Right, it's a victory of course above all though, for the man who planned it, the man who led the way and effectively sacrificed himself for victory. And now in his supreme hour, the story is drawing to a close. At about 3.30, Hardy comes back to Nelson, having left him, and he says, we have won a magnificent victory. We've taken at least 15 ships, maybe more. He says, all this is down to you and people will talk of this day forever.

• 49:03Dominic Sandbrook?

  And Nelson very faintly says, 15? That is well, but I bargained for 20.

• 49:09Tom Holland?

  And I mean, this is unprecedented, isn't it? At the Battle of the Nile, Nelson took seven and that was seen as an unprecedented achievement. So that gives you some sense of the scale of what he has achieved at Trafalgar.

• 49:20Dominic Sandbrook?

  Just unbelievable. Hardy says to Nelson, should Admiral Collingwood take command of the fleet now? And Nelson says, not where I live, I hope, Hardy. You know, even now Nelson doesn't want to give up the command. Now he reminds Hardy, he says, make sure you anchor overnight because that storm is coming. And actually, you know, he's right, because that storm will kill a lot of people, as it turns out. He is now really, really struggling to breathe, Nelson. Again, take care of my dear Lady Hamilton, Hardy. Take care of poor Lady Hamilton. And then the very famous moment that every schoolboy and schoolgirl used to learn. I shall die, Hardy. Is your pain great, sir? Yes, but I shall live half an hour yet. Hardy, kiss me.

• 50:04Dominic Sandbrook?

  And Hardy kneels down and kisses his cheek. A very moving scene. And Nelson says, thank God I have done my duty and closes his eyes. Hardy straightens up and then changes his mind and needles down again and kisses Nelson's brow and Nelson says, who is that? It's Hardy. God bless you Hardy, says Nelson. And then Hardy turns away, he's so overcome. You know, it was so striking for people in that little room, that Hardy, who was so terrifying usually, you know, who loved nothing better than flocking his men, was so stricken, you know, kind of tears in his eyes and all this kind, even though he is one, you know, he is, he is captain to the flagship that has won the most famous victory

• 50:48Dominic Sandbrook?

  in naval history, but he's so affected by his friend's plight.

• 50:52Tom Holland?

  Yeah, of course. I mean, I'm wiping away a manly tear.

• 50:55Dominic Sandbrook?

  So for another hour Nelson lies there and he's drifting in and out of sleep. His steward, Chevalier, turns him onto his right side, which is the only position that eases his pain a bit, but Nelson's in dreadful agony and he's just whispering, drink, drink, fan, fan, rub, rub. He opens his eyes and he sees his chaplain, the Reverend Scott, and he says, I wish I had not left the deck, for soon I shall be gone. Remember that I leave Lady Hamilton and my daughter Horatia as a legacy to my country. Never forget Horatia. And then for a few minutes, they're there in silence, Nelson is, is on his side, he's got his eyes closed, they're rubbing his chest and sort of propping him up to stop him just slumping over completely. He's really struggling to breathe

• 51:37Dominic Sandbrook?

  now and the Reverend Scott hears him whispering again and again, thank God I've done my duty. And very softly, he whispers his last words, God and my country. And then it's over. That's the end of the story. Not a dry eye in the house.

• 51:54Tom Holland?

  Oh dear, but not quite the end, is it? Because just a little bit of housekeeping, Dominic, you know, the, the scale of the victory. So the final tally at Trafalgar, I mean stunning. The British have lost about 500 people, another 1,200 wounded.

• 52:10Tom Holland?

  French and Spanish about 10 times more.

• 52:14Tom Holland?

  The ships, Nelson captured seven at the Nile. Here, they have captured 17 ships, destroyed an 18th. And this is the most stunning haul in the entire history of naval combat. And when the news of it gets back to England, people can't believe it. I mean, they're just blown away. Although, of course, Nelson dies disappointed that it wasn't 20. So always, always demanding the best. But of course, for the men of his fleet, I mean, it's an incredibly bittersweet victory, isn't it? Because they absolutely recognise in it the Nelson touch. And now Nelson is gone.

• 52:51Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah, it's extraordinary, actually, how many stories there are of people openly weeping in the fleet when they heard the news that he was dead. So when Hardy sent a party to the Royal Sovereign to tell Admiral Collingwood that Nelson had died, they went aboard the Royal Sovereign with tears streaming down their faces. One of Collingwood's sailors said, "It was strange to see chaps that fought like the devil sit down and cry like a wench." The captains in particular, so the people who had had those dinners with Nelson, you know, just a few weeks before, they've won the most amazing victory in history. But they are like broken men because it almost feels like it's been stripped of its meaning without him. Henry Blackwood, the frigate captain, said to his wife, "I've lost the most gallant of men and the best of friends.

• 53:34Dominic Sandbrook?

  The Reverend Scott, I could forever tell you the qualities of this beloved man. I haven't shed a tear for years before the 21st of October. But since, whenever alone, I am quite a child."

• 53:45Tom Holland?

  Yeah, and I guess a particular shock for Collingwood, who's probably Nelson's closest friend in the fleet and had known Nelson since the very beginning. So he wrote, "I cannot tell you how deeply I am affected. My friendship for him was unlike anything that I have left in the navy, a brotherhood of more than 30 years." And so he is now in command of the British fleet. And I'm afraid, you know, I love Collingwood. No one admires Collingwood more than me, but he does slightly let himself down because of course Nelson all day had been urging the fleet to anchor overnight because this storm is coming in. And Collingwood neglects to give

• 54:25Tom Holland?

  that order. And sure enough, a storm does come in. And what is it, kind of 2000, 3000 French and Spanish prisoners end up drowning. Lots of the prizes have to be abandoned. So that's a slight blot on Collingwood's copybook, but only the slightest. I mean, this is the man who hit the French line first.

• 54:49Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah, exactly. So on the 26th of October, when the storm was over, Collingwood sent a ship to London with the news. A cutter called the Pickle.

• 54:57Tom Holland?

  Which is a terrible name for a ship.

• 54:58Dominic Sandbrook?

  It is. It's really underwhelming.

• 55:00Tom Holland?

  It's like the dog that found the World Cup, isn't it?

• 55:03Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah. So under an officer called John Richards, L'Apprentissier, who was the envy of the fleet, I have to say, and basically traded on this for the rest of his life. And he arrived in Falmouth on the 4th of November. He got on the first coach to London. He arrived at the Admiralty in heavy fog and he handed over Collingwood's report. And Collingwood said, we've won a complete and glorious victory. But he went on, it's a very famous kind of passage, to record the loss of a hero whose name will be immortal and his memory ever dear to his country. And Collingwood went on to say, my heart is rent with the most poignant grief for the death of a friend to whom for all these years I was bound by

• 55:44Dominic Sandbrook?

  the strongest ties of affection. And that report was copied and taken straight to Downing Street to William Pitt, Pitt the Younger. Pitt gets it kind of in the small as of the morning. Pitt always said, whatever the news, no matter how badly the war is going, I always get a good night's sleep. And he said afterwards, this was the one night in his political career when he couldn't sleep because he was so affected by the loss of Nelson. George III was at Windsor Castle, he got the report just before breakfast and he supposedly sat there in silence, unable to speak with emotion. And Tom, you think this is out of guilt?

• 56:23Tom Holland?

  Well, I hope so, because he snubbed Nelson, didn't he? Was not as supportive of the great man as he could have been.

• 56:28Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yes. So, you know, as day dawns, the news spreads across London, the newspapers printed special editions, a huge crowd assembled at the Admiralty, totally silent. It's an amazing thing, you know, the Royal Navy had won the victory that had been longed for for so long. Britain was definitively safe from invasion, mistress of the seas, and yet it is the loss of Nelson that is the sort of first entry in the headlines.

• 56:54Tom Holland?

  Yeah, so Robert Southey, who becomes poet laureate and wrote the first great biography of Nelson, I mean, he said, "It was felt in England as something more than a public calamity. Men started at the intelligence and turned pale, as if they had heard of the loss of a dear friend." And there's another poet, Samuel Taylor Coleridge, who is in Naples at the time, and he said that people kept coming up to him in the streets to console him, and said, "As they held my hand, they burst themselves into tears." Of course, Naples, you know, there are some people who hated Nelson, there were others who regarded him as their saviour.

• 57:30Dominic Sandbrook?

  Exactly. So we'll talk about Emma and Fanny and what happened to them in next week's bonus episode for our Rest is History club members, won't we, Tom? So that's an incentive, if any be needed, to join the Rest is History club. But let's just wrap up what happened to Nelson himself. The Victory got back to Britain on the 5th of December, and it was carrying Nelson's body, which had been preserved in a barrel, first with brandy and then transferred into one with pure alcohol. And two days before Christmas, the Victory reached the estuary of the Thames, and there, the sailors moved Nelson's body into the coffin that he had personally prepared, carved from the mast of Lorient, the French flagship at the Nile.

• 58:13Dominic Sandbrook?

  And this was loaded onto a smaller ship, which Tom, it will, I know it will delight you to know, was called the Chatham.

• 58:19Tom Holland?

  Yeah.

• 58:20Dominic Sandbrook?

  For the journey upriver. And it was accompanied the whole way by the Reverend Scott, Nelson's personal chaplain, who hadn't left his side the whole time. And at Christmas Eve, the Chatham sailed west up the River Thames. As it passed, the forts fired their guns and the other ships lowered their flags in mourning and the bells tolled in the, in the, in the sort of riverside villages. By early afternoon on Christmas Eve, they'd reached the Royal Hospital at Greenwich, which is the perfect place for it, you know, the Painted Hall at Greenwich, the kind of temple to Britain's maritime traditions and to the monarchy and to British trade and all of these things.

• 59:01Dominic Sandbrook?

  And there Nelson kind of lay in state and thousands of people filed past his body, you know, shuffled past. These are the people for whom Nelson had fought, and so they knew exactly how much they owed him. And it remained there till the eighth of January. And then it was loaded onto the Royal Barge to make the journey into London. And it was an amazing spectacle, actually, you know, lieutenants from the Victory as guards, all the escort ships were commanded by the other heroes of Trafalgar. So Pascoe, the Signals Lieutenant, who's recovered from his wounds, Henry Blackwood, Thomas Hardy, they're all there, kind of part of this pageantry. Great crowds of spectators on the banks, guns firing.

• 59:42Dominic Sandbrook?

  And eventually they got to London and the coffin was taken to the Admiralty one last time, to the headquarters of the Royal Navy. And again, the Reverend Scott kept vigil all night with it.

• 59:55Tom Holland?

  And then Thursday, the ninth of January, the funeral itself. And I mean, it's not just one of Britain's greatest public spectacles, but it establishes the template, doesn't it, of what a great national hero can expect when he dies? Because it establishes the template for Wellington and for Churchill in their funerals. But it is Nelson who is the first.

• 1:00:17Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah. I mean, it was a freezing day, thousands upon thousands of people in the streets. You know, these are days when you can't really estimate the size of the crowd. And what they saw was this great parade, this huge black funeral carriage, which had been designed to resemble the victory. I can't quite get my head around what that would have, what that would have looked like.

• 1:00:37Tom Holland?

  It's a little bit vulgar.

• 1:00:38Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah, you know, the drums are muffled. There are kind of cannon shots in the distance. The congregation at St Paul's Cathedral had been there since seven o'clock in the morning, taking their seats. When Nelson's coffin finally got there, a team of sailors carried the coffin to the altar, followed by a procession of Nelson's family, leading politicians, not William Pitt, who's already seriously ill and is going to end up dying. But there are junior members of the royal family, people from the city of London and so on. And the chief mourner was Sir Peter Parker, who was the admiral who had given Nelson his first command in the Caribbean a quarter of a century earlier. So very fitting. At five thirty, at the words, "His name liveth forevermore",

• 1:01:23Dominic Sandbrook?

  Nelson was lowered into the crypt and he rests in the sarcophagus that was originally built for, made for Cardinal Wolsey and then was taken by Henry the Eighth. But that's what you see if you go to St Paul's today. And the last moment, I mean, if Nelson's story couldn't be any more theatrical. At the end, the sailors were meant to take the victory's flag and fold it and to lay it in the grave. But instead, what the sailors did was they ripped it up in front of everybody and each man took a fragment for himself, like a little reminder and a sort of sense that Nelson, who belonged to the Royal Navy all his life, now he was theirs forever.

• 1:02:06Tom Holland?

  So that is Nelson laid in his grave. We should probably just go through some of the other characters who featured in this episode and the story more generally. So Collingwood, he dies at sea in eighteen ten.

• 1:02:22Tom Holland?

  Bounce had survived the Battle of Trafalgar, I'm glad to say.

• 1:02:27Tom Holland?

  Thomas Hardy, he became a baronet, he became a first naval lord, he died in 1839. Always remembered for his kiss. Poor old Vilnius, he's brought back as a prisoner, isn't he? He ends up in a pub in Hampshire. I love a pub in Hampshire, so I can think of worse fates. He actually goes to Nelson's funeral and then he manages to get back to France. And he's then found dead in Rennes in 1806, so a year after Trafalgar. And it's a great mystery because it's unclear whether he committed suicide or whether he'd actually been murdered.

• 1:03:03Dominic Sandbrook?

  So some people said he committed suicide out of guilt or disappointment or depression or whatever. But in Britain in particular, because people wanted to believe the worst of Napoleon. It was widely believed that he'd been murdered by Napoleon's agents as punishment for losing the Battle of Trafalgar. It sounds like exactly the kind of thing that Corsican would do, don't you think, Tom?

• 1:03:23Tom Holland?

  I mean, there has all along in the background been this incredible intelligence war raging between the British and French intelligence services. Kind of tinker-tale sold us by paranoia. So you can see how those stories would emerge.

• 1:03:36Dominic Sandbrook?

  Definitely. And then there's always a, the great thing about the story of Nelson is there's always yet another melodramatic flourish to come. And this is one of my favourites. So Admiral Gravina, the Spanish Admiral, who'd been wounded at Trafalgar, he never recovered. And he also died in 1806. And on his deathbed in Spain, he was visited by a British doctor who reported that Gravina's last words were, "I die happy. I am going, I hope and trust to join Nelson, perhaps the greatest hero that the world has produced."

• 1:04:08Tom Holland?

  And Dominic, just to be clear,

• 1:04:10Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:10Tom Holland?

  this depends entirely on the testimony of a British doctor.

• 1:04:13Dominic Sandbrook?

  But I think everybody listening to this would agree that this definitely, this really clearly would have happened.

• 1:04:20Dominic Sandbrook?

  There's no doubt that that would have been Gravina's final sentiment.

• 1:04:23Tom Holland?

  So Dominic, two more people.

• 1:04:24Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:25Tom Holland?

  Uh, Fanny, Lady Nelson, who you have a great Tom dress for. So she gets a pension from the government. She gets the money that Nelson is owed from all the prizes. That goes to her as well. She, she goes to Paris after eighteen fifteen in Waterloo, stays there and then she retires to Exmouth. And throughout her final years, she remains what she has always been, the absolute soul of respectability. She's on good terms with Nelson's officers. She rebuilds bridges with his family. And William the Fourth, Duke of Clarence, as had been kind of old mucker of Nelson's. He comes and visits her and she dies in eighteen thirty one.

• 1:05:07Tom Holland?

  So she has, you know, haven't called it a happy post Nelson life.

• 1:05:12Dominic Sandbrook?

  But comfortable.

• 1:05:13Tom Holland?

  A comfortable and prosperous one. Whether that is what Emma Hamilton has, we will find out, as we've been saying, in the bonus that is out next week. And also the fate of Horatio, Nelson's daughter, who was so much on his mind as he lay dying on victory.

• 1:05:33Dominic Sandbrook?

  So Nelson, after his death, as Andrew Lambert, the historian puts it, he was transformed from a living hero into a national god. And part of this, I think, is about the context. So actually, while, you know, Nelson has been laid to rest and people have been mourning, Napoleon has won the Battle of Ostelitz. So Napoleon has been absolutely smiting, you know, the Austrians and the Prussians and whatnot. It's clear this is going to be a very long war and Britain needs a martyred naval hero. So Nelson is turned into a kind of nineteenth century classical hero, isn't he? As you were saying, this kind of Christian Achilles, he's immortalized in stone in classical style. The first monument was actually commissioned in Hereford.

• 1:06:16Dominic Sandbrook?

  Nelson was a kind of freeman of the city of Hereford or something, and the people of Hereford were keen to celebrate this. And then there was an obelisk in Portsmouth. There was the famous pillar in Dublin, which was blown up in the 1960s. And then there were Birmingham, Glasgow, Liverpool, not just in Britain, actually. So Montreal, there's a column. There's a column in Barbados. The city of Nelson, New Zealand is named after Nelson. The island of Nelson, British Columbia in Canada. And most famously later, Trafalgar Square. So you're the expert on the architecture of London, Tom. What's the story here?

• 1:06:52Tom Holland?

  Yeah, and of course Nelson's column. And neither of these were built until the 1840s. And essentially, the problem with building Trafalgar Square is that they had to get rid of a lot of slums and racketsy old buildings. And actually, among the buildings that ends up being cleared was the tavern where coaches from Chester would arrive and unload their human cargo. And one of those people who would have stepped out of the coach from Chester into this tavern would have been the very, very young girl who would go on to become Emma Hamilton. And so obviously, the centerpiece of Trafalgar Square is this great column, both in its

• 1:07:33Tom Holland?

  design and the proportions of the column from a column that's pretty much all that survives of the Temple of Mars Altar in Rome that was built by Augustus. And on its base, it has four reliefs illustrating the four great victories won by Nelson or in which he assisted. So Cape St Vincent, the Nile, Copenhagen and Trafalgar. And the relief of Trafalgar is the one that has the Black Sailor, probably a young man called George Ryan, who was aged 23 when he took part in Trafalgar. And I guess it's the ultimate architectural symbol of British patriotism, isn't it?

• 1:08:16Tom Holland?

  I mean, that's certainly what Hitler thought, because his plan was, when he conquered Britain, that he would remove Nelson's column. And take it to Berlin.

• 1:08:23Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yes, I think for the next one hundred and fifty years or so, Nelson was the supreme icon, wasn't he? The great patriotic icon, celebrated in paintings and poetry by great historians.

• 1:08:36Tom Holland?

  Yeah, but also, I think, an inspiration to future Britons who might dream of serving and saving their country, of whom obviously there's one in particular, because Churchill was obsessed by Nelson. He had a bust of Nelson at Chartwell. When he was at the Admiralty, he called the cat there Nelson. And in nineteen forty five, he belonged to this dining club. So Keynes was in it, Lloyd George, H G Wells, Luchins, the great architect.

• 1:09:10Tom Holland?

  They got together and pooled their donations to try and buy him Nelson's gold snuffbox, which had come up for auction.

• 1:09:18Dominic Sandbrook?

  That's nice. I love that story. Now, in the last ten or twenty years or so, there have been some very sort of half-hearted attempts to kind of cancel Nelson because of his opposition to abolitionism, you know, because he's associated with the Royal Navy and Empire and so on. Not that he was, I mean, he's more associated with fighting the French, he's not conquering other peoples. But they have never really succeeded. And actually, I think Nelson remains, you know, he's definitely in the top five of sort of Britons in the public imagination, don't you think? I mean, when you look at the stats, so HMS Victory at Portsmouth, there are more than thirty million people have gone to HMS Victory

• 1:10:00Dominic Sandbrook?

  in the last century. So that's about a third of a million people every year go and kind of walk the deck and everybody, you know, has their photo taken by the spot where there's the little plaque, isn't there, on the deck? This is where Nelson fell, you know, all of that.

• 1:10:14Tom Holland?

  Nelson's Victory at Trafalgar particularly does facilitate Britain's command of the oceans, which in turn facilitates the growth of the British Empire in the nineteenth century. But it does also, as we've said, facilitate the Royal Navy's campaign against the slave trade. So I think that that makes him a less controversial imperial hero than almost any other. As you say, he's chiefly known for defeating the French, and I think that that remains.

• 1:10:44Dominic Sandbrook?

  A brilliant thing.

• 1:10:46Tom Holland?

  Well, it remains the kind of thing for which a British hero is unlikely to be cancelled.

• 1:10:52Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah, I think so. Of course, the great thing about Nelson is he embodies something bigger than himself, the navy, which was then the most modern organisation in the world, the sinews of industrial power. I see in the chat, Theo's muttering about Naples, but I think we can, in this episode of all episodes, we can just completely ignore whatever Theo is saying, because of course, what he resisted was Bonaparte's tyranny.

• 1:11:20Dominic Sandbrook?

  Don't you think? And actually, do you know what? Don't take it from me, take it from no lesser person than the President of the United States, who when he came to Windsor Castle, said in his speech to King Charles, "The lion-hearted people of this kingdom defeated Napoleon, unleashed the Industrial Revolution, destroyed slavery and defended civilisation." And you know who he's talking about? He's talking about Nelson.

• 1:11:44Tom Holland?

  He is, yeah. But I suppose also, the other reason why Nelson endures in the public imagination and retains his popularity is precisely that he is a kind of hero of flesh and blood, and that he does make mistakes, and he does behave ludicrously, and there is a kind of comic element to him. And that also, I think, is a part of what makes him so, I mean, makes him, I think, more appealing than, say, the Duke of Wellington, who's a much more granite figure.

• 1:12:12Dominic Sandbrook?

  Yeah, exactly, exactly. It's the fact that he is, he's a human being, you know, and it's not just the sometimes ludicrous vanity and the love life and stuff, but it's the sheer physical courage in putting himself at the front. It's the leadership, you know, the camaraderie, the warmth with which he related to his men and his men to him. And I think, you know, we always pair him with Napoleon. And they do have things in common, this kind of insatiable thirst for fame and for glory. But I think the big, for me, the big difference between these two characters is Napoleon is only ever interested in Napoleon.

• 1:12:55Dominic Sandbrook?

  But Nelson, it's about the institution. It's about, you know, service and duty. And those are not really words. You know, it's la gloire that means most to Napoleon. But I think what, what means most to Nelson is this sense of institutional responsibility. And, you know, you've quoted many times, Collingwood saying of Nelson, you know, he was a brilliant warrior, but he had no foolish passion for fighting. But he was the most gentle of human creatures. Collingwood said, what made him fight was his love of Britain, her laws and liberty. And that for me is why his last words on the victory are such a perfect epitaph. God and my country.

• 1:13:37Tom Holland?

  And on that patriotic note, thank you everyone for listening. Thank you, Dominic. Goodbye.

• 1:13:45Dominic Sandbrook?

  Bye bye.

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