355: Jeff Glover and Pete The Greek Letsos. Keep Training, Keep Learning, Keep Living.

Jeff Glover and Pete The Greek Letsos talk Jiu Jitsu and Life. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 355 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening Echo. Good evening. So it was about 2009 or 2010, I think. And I'm in San Diego and that year in San Diego, whatever year this was, the ADCC trials were in San Diego. So this is the championship of jujitsu of submission grappling. And you have to do, you have to get qualified to go there. And they have a bunch of competitions all over the world and the North American qualifier happened to be in San Diego. So I went, of course, and I brought my son with me.

• 0:44Jocko Willink?

  So I got my son with me and you know, he's like seven or eight years old, but you know, he trains all the time. So he knows what's up. And they announced, you know, who's next up in this one mat. And they go, oh, next up is gonna be some guy, blah, blah, blah, some guy versus Jeff Glover. And I was like, I told my son, I looked at him, I go, hey. I go, this guy, we're going to that, that mat to watch this guy Jeff Glover. I said, he's crazy. And so we run over to that mat, we start watching and sure enough, this guy Jeff Glover, and I knew Jeff Glover cause I, we started competing in jujitsu around the same time.

• 1:25Jocko Willink?

  As a matter of fact, I have a, I have a sheet of paper that has the champions of like a grappling games or one of these old school, Joe Morier, one of these old school jujitsu tournaments. And the first place winner of the white belts is Jeff Glover. The first place winner of the blue belts, I, or second is me. And then Dean Lister is like the purple belt or something along those lines, but it's pretty cool, right? So anyways, Jeff Glover comes out and what does he do? He like does donkey guard, which means he basically turns his back on his opponent, goes on all fours, runs at the dude backwards and engages him. And then 14 seconds later, he's got the guy and he'll hook and the guy taps.

• 2:11Jocko Willink?

  And my son, who again, he's like seven or eight years old, he looks at me and he goes, when you said he was crazy, I thought you meant crazy. Ah, I didn't know you meant crazy.

• 2:26Jocko Willink?

  So that was it. That was, uh, that was kind of a moment in, that I really remember about Jeff Glover. And then luckily for me, and luckily for everyone in San Diego, Jeff Glover came down and actually taught jiu-jitsu at Victory MMA for five years. For five years, we had Jeff Glover here teaching. Jeff Glover, he ended up, you know, he's done all kinds of stuff. He was the Pan Am Champ 2005, the Pan Am Champ 2006, 2007 Nogi World Champion, 2008 Nogi Silver Medalist, 27-time Champion of grappler's quest.

• 3:06Jocko Willink?

  Maybe it's more. It's but a lot. 27 times Champion of grappler's quest. And we are, uh, super stoked to have Jeff Glover here on the podcast to talk to us tonight. Jeff, what's happening?

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Thank you, Jaco.

• 3:23Jocko Willink?

  Thanks for coming down. Also with him is Pete Letsos, which who you probably don't know. You probably don't know who Pete Letsos is, but that's okay. You might know who Pete the Greek is. Pete the Greek, another jiu-jitsu legend.

• 3:39Jocko Willink?

  1999 and 2000 Pan Am, third place as a blue belt. 2001 Gracie Invitational Champion. 2002 Sao Paulo State Champion. 2003 Pan Am Champion, Purple Belt. Got his black belt in 2006, under the, under the Carlson Gracie side of the family. And you know what that means. Carlson Gracie Jr., uh, 2006, Pete the Greek opened his academy up in Chicago. He's, he's famous in the jiu-jitsu world, featured in the book, The Gracie Way. He's without a doubt the best wrist locker in the world, making sure that the world is not ignoring that 5% of the body. Pete the Greek, thanks for coming down, man.

• 4:24Jocko Willink?

  Hey, thank you, sir. Thanks, Echo. Thanks, Jeff. So here we are, two jiu-jitsu legends in the house. Nice for me, you know, I love jiu-jitsu. I love jiu-jitsu, and so it's nice for me to come in here and just be able to talk about jiu-jitsu. But let's talk about you guys and how you guys got started in the game. Jeff, so tell us a little bit, like, where'd you grow up? What'd your parents, what'd your parents do?

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Uh, my mom was a nurse and my dad had all kinds of different jobs and they, uh, ended up in Santa Barbara, which is where I found jiu-jitsu. Like 16, I started.

• 5:02Jocko Willink?

  You were 16 when you started?

• 5:04Speaker 01

  And everyone thought I was like 12.

• 5:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, cuz you still look like you're 16 now.

• 5:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, what, what, what, how'd you get to the gym? What happened?

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Um, well, Frangia actually, uh, moved next door to my mom's house. Him and his whole Brazilian family. There was like 12 of them. They all moved into a house together and...

• 5:26Jocko Willink?

  Like next door neighbors?

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, like right there. The same block that Bill Cooper lived on. And, uh, Bill wasn't even in the scene yet, but he lived in that neighborhood and was one of the kids, but... Yeah, Frangia.

• 5:41Jocko Willink?

  So then what, he came over and was like, you need to learn how to fight, boy?

• 5:44Speaker 01

  I went over there to make friends, you know, and knocked on their door. That's kinda how it was in that neighborhood, you know, like it was a nice spot. It was a nice place to live. And, uh, yeah, I knocked on the door. He opened the door and like he had a TV playing UFC in the background.

• 6:01Jocko Willink?

  What year is this?

• 6:02Speaker 01

  I mean, this was like 1998.

• 6:04Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. 1998 or 9 and, um, yeah, it was just super crazy, like he had, you know, the cauliflower, the shaved head. It's intimidating, you know, that you remember the first time you saw a really good grappler and that the way they're... The way their head just kinda looks different, you know, and the ears, and you're like, how did that happen?

• 6:23Jocko Willink?

  So did he say like, "I teach jiu-jitsu"? You're like, "What is that? Karate? Like, I don't want to do karate. That looks, you know..."

• 6:30Speaker 01

  I mean, I didn't understand a word he said for the first six months. Alls I know is, he was just very persuasive and was pulling and pushing me places and I found myself on a mat with people trying to choke me. And it was awesome.

• 6:43Jocko Willink?

  And then, how long was it before you were like, in the academy taking classes?

• 6:47Speaker 01

  Like, the first week. That first week. After that first week, I like, told him. I was like, "Dude, I want to do what you do."

• 6:54Jocko Willink?

  How do, how long did it, did you realize the power of jiu-jitsu immediately? Were you just like, "Why is this happening"?

• 7:00Speaker 01

  It didn't really, it didn't like dawn on me. It would, none of that, none of that profound stuff was dawning on me. It was just so cool to have this like, mentor guy telling me what to do, that was like, telling me to do push-ups and yelling at me. Like, you know, he would kick me if I didn't do the calisthenics work he wanted me to do. You know, like, I'd never had that in my life. And I was like, "I didn't care what it was doing. If that, if that dude was jumping off bridges, I would have jumped off bridges." But that dude did jiu-jitsu tournaments on the weekend and push-ups during the week. So that's, you know, it was just really nice, yeah.

• 7:33Jocko Willink?

  Did he open that academy immediately? This is, by the way, if anybody wants to know, this is Paragon Jiu-Jitsu. This is, uh, this is Ricardo Frangia Miller. Like, epic instructor and, you know, obviously, he has Jeff Glover under him, has Bill Cooper under him, has the other Glover.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, Tyrone Glover.

• 7:54Jocko Willink?

  So he's made a bunch of just incredible, uh, jiu-jitsu people. He's still up there at Paragon.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, he has a big empire that he runs and operates out of Ventura and all over.

• 8:06Jocko Willink?

  My, my middle, my middle daughter is now part of the Paragon Empire, because she goes to slow.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, Chris Lovato. He was, he was one of the first guys that came into Frangia's jiu-jitsu world with like, really good wrestling. And I used to fight Chris Lovato when I was like seventeen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen. I would, that was like, one of the first like, men Frangia would let me like, fight. You know what I'm saying? And I got some good work out of that dude.

• 8:33Jocko Willink?

  Is that where you started developing good wrestling?

• 8:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, him and Tyrone, you know, Tyrone came in was like, alright, all these Brazilian names, all these judo names that you have for these takedowns, there's wrestling names for those too. You know, like-

• 8:45Jocko Willink?

  That's a double leg song.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  That's called, that's not called biana, right? Isn't that what they called it? That's not called biana, that's called double leg, you know? And he's like, and you, and you change levels when you do it too. You know, just like, "Bra, bend over and grab it", like, you know?

• 8:57Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  And, uh, yeah, that was it. I started wrestling early, early, early.

• 9:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, your wrestling is, is like underrated, right? Cause people, you're so fluid on the mat, that people might not recognize that. And your, your freaking creativity on the mat is ridiculous. It's ridiculous, and we'll get into like where that came from, but before, Pete-

• 9:19Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 9:19Jocko Willink?

  How'd it go down? Well, well, first of all, you're from Chi-Town, right?

• 9:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:23Jocko Willink?

  So tell us a little bit about that, what's going on, where are you from?

• 9:25Speaker 02

  My dad, my dad owned, uh, hot dog places. My dad was the first one to have a Euros in Chicago, so he'd put it on the spit and-

• 9:32Jocko Willink?

  Dang.

• 9:33Speaker 02

  And we basically would flip restaurants, we'd flip hot dog place, well, they're not little stands, just little, like across the street at the malt shop. So basically, those type of places, a little bit smaller.

• 9:42Jocko Willink?

  Yup.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  And, um, so my dad would, we'd go and find a place, you know, we're Greek, we'd, we'd find someone struggling that, that could, they'd open them, not know how to do it, and we'd just take it over and flip it. You could either flip it in a few months, maybe a few years, but one that we kept was called Kings and Queens. And, uh, that was in Berwyn, which is right next to Chicago, it's right on the border. And, um, there was a karate place next to it, so my dad, my dad's tough, he's from Greece. Uh, his parents left him at 13 years old, he took care of himself since 13. They brought him to the United States at World War II. Soon as that was, he was born in that, uh, in that time, so he's like, born in 1942.

• 10:25Speaker 02

  They brought him over, and his dad's like, "You know what, I'm out." And he left, and has left him. And so then he made it to Chicago, and he's a tough guy, so he always wanted like, but he worked hard, so he never really worked out, he's like, "I never worked out, I just worked." And the karate place next to the, to the place and my dad got his black belt. And he would just do private lessons with like the master and all that. And so my dad would train me when I was born. He had me like at forty years old. And so he'd be on his knees and fight me all the time and make me tough. And I don't know where he learned that, but it was like war training. So, so, so I started doing that. And then, um, I went to the karate place, but I didn't like it. I would just show up for the belt promotion.

• 11:08Speaker 02

  I was like, oh, these kids are getting promoted. I'll fight them. And then like they'd get promoted, but they have to fight me. And the guy's like, look, man, you can't come back. You know, you have to come to class. And, um, I was good at floor hockey and baseball and stuff. And I found out that my cousin was like the best ice hockey player. His name's Chris Chelios. He's one of the best ones. He's in the NHL. He lived in San Diego. And, um, one of the kids, uh, was getting bullied. So the dad's like, no, no, we're going to teach you. And so they brought me on the ice hockey team and I beat up the bully day one. I was never that big, but I, I was ready to fight people for my friends. And, uh, and so bam.

• 11:48Jocko Willink?

  Still ready to fight people.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  No, no, but it's not like, Glover likes me because like, I really don't have to fight anyone, but it's just, it's fun. It, it keeps you strong. And so the next thing, what happened next?

• 12:02Jocko Willink?

  So where did you get to?

• 12:03Speaker 02

  They brought me to ice hockey. So then ice hockey was cool, but I never really wanted to play ice hockey. They just want me there to beat up the bullies. So, so then bam, I saw UFC. It was like nineteen ninety-three. My mom, I live with my mom growing up. My dad went back to Greece and, uh, I'm like, I want to do. I looked at my mom and I said, that's what I want to do. And she looked at me. He's like, that's what you should do.

• 12:24Jocko Willink?

  That's the only mom in history.

• 12:26Speaker 02

  I was like, this is perfect. So we just watch it. And, um, we moved around. So I went to a few high schools. The last high school I went to, um, cause we, was called Montini. And, and they were really strong wrestling programs. So you see like John Jones wrestling coaches from there. They have like Izzy wrestling. All these kids are top notch wrestlers. And so I would go to wrestling rooms and fight them pretty much. I was like fourteen, fifteen. And I was able to do well against all of them, but I would never wrestle because it was ice hockey season. So then finally one of them says, one of the Gracies moved in town and I couldn't drive yet.

• 13:03Speaker 02

  So then, um, my mom's like, yeah, my mom had a heart attack.

• 13:06Jocko Willink?

  He still can't drive.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  So my mom had a heart attack at fourteen, so I just took the car, went to Gracie's. And I met Carlson Gracie Junior. I'm like, whoa, I'm like, this is, this guy's like, he's one of them. And then he didn't like to drive, so I became his personal driver. And then when I would drive him, people want to kick my butt because I show up at the coach, you know, I'm always with him. And then that's when I met Carlson. Carlson would bring Vitor and everyone. I was so happy. I didn't even know there were jiu-jitsu tournaments. I just thought there was pride fighting and UFC. And then should I join, I just became one of them. I became their driver. Just drove him everywhere. And then eventually.

• 13:46Jocko Willink?

  Eventually you went to Brazil, right?

• 13:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:49Jocko Willink?

  How far along was that?

• 13:50Speaker 02

  So then, um, there's a tournament going on. I lived in Ohio, so Carlson Gracie Junior. He's my best friend. He lived with me and he lived with me and my mom in Chicago. He lived alone. But you can't move from Rio de Janeiro to Chicago. It gets depressing. It's like, I'm knocking on his door because my job was to pick him up and take him to class. Like, people still have that. Like, a lot of jiu-jitsu coaches, they love to have their students come, pick them up, hang out, and take them to class, so. Knocking on the door and he's not answering. I kicked the door down. I'm like, look, come live with me and my mom. And then he lived with me and I started getting really serious about jiu-jitsu. I was about sixteen at that point.

• 14:29Jocko Willink?

  What year was that?

• 14:30Speaker 02

  Around ninety-six, somewhere around there, ninety-six, ninety-seven.

• 14:34Jocko Willink?

  So now you're training freaking hard.

• 14:36Speaker 02

  Hard. So I'm his driver. I show up to every single class. It's, um, Carlson Gracie team, so. We always have people from Brazil. Carlson Gracie always come visit us because O'Hare Airport's international. So before things were different, they could stop. I think they can still do that, but whenever they would go to Brazil, wherever, they'd always bring their team and stop in Chicago and visit his son. And I'd fight them and I didn't even know there were tournaments existed. I'm like, whoa, these, these guys make a lot of money. Like, no one on my team was broke. You just seen Vitor come and eating metrics packages. He didn't even eat food. I was like, mom, I want to be like this guy. My dad looked at him. He's like, oh. My dad didn't understand so much because I didn't live with him, but, um.

• 15:20Speaker 02

  My mom understood that's what I wanted to do and so hundred and ten percent behind me. And I never really had to pay for training because when you train like the way Jeff and I do. Like first we start off cleaning them. First we start off usually as like training dummies. We help with privates. We help with everything.

• 15:37Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  So you know, God bless all that and I start training. Shoot, I end up in Brazil. Next thing you know, I tell, I'm at the tournament in Ohio. So it's my first day of purple belt. I should go as a blue belt and Carl's Jr. says, look, you're going as a purple belt. I'm like, oh, yeah. I show up there and um I smash everyone. I do a couple of over under moves and like I smash a lot of pressure. I beat everyone and then a guy comes out of the, out of the crowd. His name is Henry Metamoros. He's back in the day. He, he fought Rafael Cudero and, and the old uh Valle Tudo things and he comes out. And he's like, I want to go against you because I beat a Pedro Sauer guy. He's from Pedro Sauer.

• 16:21Jocko Willink?

  This is good.

• 16:23Speaker 02

  And I'm like, I'm out, I'm doing it. And then I, I beat him, boom. And then on the whole.

• 16:28Jocko Willink?

  How many hours a day were you training?

• 16:30Speaker 02

  No, all day. I would just pick them up. I was just there.

• 16:33Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm. Jeff. He's a lifer. Jeff, how many hours a day were you training once you started training?

• 16:40Speaker 02

  There's no hours.

• 16:40Jocko Willink?

  Not as much as Pete.

• 16:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, right.

• 16:42Jocko Willink?

  No way.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  He came after, Jeff came after because I met on the mat people in Brazil.

• 16:47Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 16:47Speaker 02

  And they, Scotty and them.

• 16:49Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 16:50Speaker 02

  And then so I had to train that hard because I wasn't accepted. My, my team destroyed. It fell apart. And so then I met Scotty and Scotty had all the information. He had the digital.

• 17:00Jocko Willink?

  Okay, so hold on. You got, you got Carlson Gracie team. Because a bunch of people left to make Brazilian top team, right?

• 17:07Speaker 02

  So I'm in this tournament in Ohio and the coaches, uh, the, the referees Cristiano Marcelo, he had. He's like the guy from Gracie Maitat and he go, and he's coaching shoebox. He goes, tells the Carl's Jr. This guy, if he moves to Brazil, no one will be able to beat him.

• 17:24Jocko Willink?

  They said that about you.

• 17:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, and he was the ref when I, when I won that. And so then bam, I say to. I say to Junior, I say, I need to go to Brazil, dude. And he's like, sure. He's like, perfect. He calls his mom. And I show up there with my backpack.

• 17:39Jocko Willink?

  What'd you tell your mom?

• 17:41Speaker 02

  I said, I'm going to, my mom was happy.

• 17:43Jocko Willink?

  How old are you?

• 17:44Speaker 02

  I'm about twenty.

• 17:45Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 17:46Speaker 02

  My mom was happy.

• 17:47Jocko Willink?

  And what year is this?

• 17:49Speaker 02

  It's around two thousand.

• 17:51Jocko Willink?

  Check. Okay.

• 17:52Speaker 02

  Go up, show up there and I'm, and Junior's like my brother, Carlson Gracie Junior. He lived with me and stuff. We're like close, like real close, like me and Jeff. The mom never met me. She, and she's gave me, I said, Peach, cause my name in Portuguese, like a dog, like pit bull, P. I'd say Peach. She gives me a hug. I give her a hug. We didn't know any, I couldn't understand anything. I knew some swear words, but um.

• 18:16Speaker 02

  So I show up, she works at the gym. Carlson's wife work at the gym forty five. This is jujitsu crazy. So I walk over. They take me everywhere. This is Peach, you know, don't mess with them. And we meet all the bikers. They have all types of, you know, mutual friends that they know. I say, don't, you know, this is Pete. And shoot. I was like, it was great. And, and, and then, um, yeah, but I showed up to the gym and like the third day, they asked me to teach class. Cause the team fell apart. And I was like, whoa. Like I didn't come here for this. So then I tell Carlson, I'm like, look, like, I wanna train hard. Cause they only had a few guys left. Most of the guys that stayed left, some were like the loyal guys, but some were the guys that no one wanted.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  It's like they didn't go with them because no one wanted them. So I was like, whoa. I'm like, I can't stay here.

• 19:07Jocko Willink?

  So did you feel like it was like a political scenario?

• 19:10Speaker 02

  It was like a war. It was like show up to a war after your team just got massacred. And they're just like, they're like, whoa.

• 19:17Jocko Willink?

  So you, what, what, what was it that made you not want?

• 19:21Speaker 02

  There was one guy there. There was a few left, like.

• 19:23Jocko Willink?

  So was it that all the good guys left?

• 19:25Speaker 02

  They all left. There was like two or three of us left. One of them was so tough. He was a biker, a biker guy. I think he was like in a Hell's Angel or something. He, um, yeah, for sure he was. He went back to Brazilian top team to beat all of them up and take them back. He was hectic and he was doing a great job of doing it, but he got in trouble and I don't know what happened to him. But he was actually doing it. He had one guy at the end willing to go there and beat them all up and take them back. And he was doing a good job of that, but didn't work out. Dude, out of context, the whole idea of like one guy going to another place beating people up and taking them back.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  I didn't know that. Hell yeah. Cause Carlson's best friend's name is Paket. Rules, son. His name is Paket Todd. Oh, actually, I went through with Scotty. Scotty's like the American guy over there that films everything. Everyone loves him. But Scotty always has money around. So I show up to the Brazilian top team with Scotty one day. And it was like an enemy territory. I was like, whoa, I'm like, I saw all these guys. It was in the Braz- Bank of Brazil. Laborios also worked for Bank of Brazil. So he hooked them up with, they had a country club where they trained. It was badass. Like I walked in there, I was like, whoa, there was like eighty, hundred people. You seen like, I was like, whoa. And then the guy Naval Yada, he was the guy with the tattoos, my best friend there.

• 20:47Speaker 02

  Well, cause he was the last one left. He comes up and right away, I'm in there. He stops the whole train. Cause these guys are trying to sell us stuff. I'm with a bunch of American dudes and the little guy is like from top teams like, oh, buy this, buy that. I'm like, what? I'm not buying no top team, nothing. And then now they all sees me, Pete's here. He's the only brother in the room that'll fight with me against all you guys. He's like, soon everyone will come back to the Carlson Gracie team. It got hectic in there. I was like, yeah. And then he's like, don't worry, Pete. I'm like, alright. And we just stood there. And that was when I went to the top team and then it was never the same after that.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  Um, I could never join them. So I went to all the other schools. Carl said, look, I know you went there.

• 21:40Speaker 02

  He said, you can't go there again. You can go anywhere else. So then I went to every other team. I showed up Gracie Bah, I was training. I lived in Oswaldo Hills. I trained at Ted today. I went to every other gym. No one really liked me, but they respected Carlson. Like you'd hear like gringo. I was like, oh, I'm trying to hear gringo. I'm like, alright. De Carlson Gracie, I'm like, oh, okay, I know any Portuguese, but I knew that, that's what I mean, it's about to get heated. And so Scotty, like.

• 22:05Jocko Willink?

  Was people, was every school you went to, everyone tried to murder you?

• 22:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so Scotty, Scotty took all the videos of everything. And then like that's when Glover's being built at that point.

• 22:16Jocko Willink?

  This is when Scotty's making videos like ringworm and all them videos?

• 22:20Speaker 02

  All the stuff, he had dang fever.

• 22:22Jocko Willink?

  Oh, that's right.

• 22:23Speaker 02

  Scotty got to make the videos because of me, because Carlson's best friend was Paco Ta. He was the guy that filmed, like Carlson's best friend, he's like, hey, what should you do? You should film. So Paco Ta filmed everything. So then they showed up to the house, they're like, we don't like your friend Scotty. He films everything, he's making all this, you can't just show up to Brazil and film everyone and make all this. Like, we don't like him.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  They don't like when you do that here, let alone there.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, so Scotty's blonde hair.

• 22:49Jocko Willink?

  Especially back in the day, dude, because back in the day, it wasn't like now, you know, you can go on BJJ Fanatics and just get like the best moves of anyone, because they're, you know, you can go buy them. But back in the day, you couldn't buy the best moves from anyone, because it was a secret inside that academy.

• 23:04Speaker 02

  No, because it was hectic, because Scotty was from Health Gracie, Health made them nervous. Health still makes people a little nervous. But they didn't really care, they're like, you know, Scotty is Scotty, I gotta go. And I'm like, they're like, what do you think of him? In Brazil, they talk like that, they talk like family, what do you think of Scotty? I'm like, Scotty's like my brother. And then they look at Paco Ta, what do you think of Scotty? He's like, Scotty's like my son. So bam, Scotty got to film everything at that point in time.

• 23:34Jocko Willink?

  Dude, I remember those movies back in the day.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  So Scotty had everything.

• 23:38Jocko Willink?

  They were like gold.

• 23:39Speaker 02

  At that point in time, they're like, they're telling about this Glover guy I'm hearing about. These guys back in the United States, I didn't give a shit, I was like, no way, I'm in Brazil, I'm here like, ah. I don't care about anyone over there, I'm like, I'm, I was there on one thing. It was just to smash and like, and do whatever I needed to do. Just to, I was the only one left on my team. And so Glover Glover was able to like Scotty had a big part in Glover I guarantee you like he not gonna tell you that well he will tell you that like Fran junior for sure but Scotty have give you access to things that like

• 24:15Speaker 01

  Not just me though like

• 24:17Speaker 02

  Not just him

• 24:17Jocko Willink?

  So the Scotty that we're talking about

• 24:19Speaker 01

  Scotty puts us all together Chipsa Hospital

• 24:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah Scotty but back in the yeah now he has a hospital what's the name of the hospital in Mexico?

• 24:26Speaker 02

  Chipsa

• 24:27Speaker 01

  Chipsa

• 24:28Jocko Willink?

  Chipsa so he's doing a bunch of great work uh helping people with stem cells if you're interested in that you can fly into San Diego and go down across the border to you want This is way before that This is dude this is I mean when I met those guys yeah when I met those guys they were living in like a like a broken down loft up in San Francisco me and Dean Lister go up there for you know to go out hang out train and whatnot

• 24:50Speaker 02

  Scotty was the coolest person at that point and maybe one of the coolest people in in America as far as bringing people together and showing them a good time like because not too many people were able to do that how is he gonna bring all these people right Glover what do you think? From all shapes of life

• 25:06Speaker 01

  You're crushing it Pete keep going

• 25:09Jocko Willink?

  So what was when did you meet Scotty then Jeffy?

• 25:11Speaker 01

  I mean early he he was already sponsoring Tyrone and Tyrone was like you should look at my little white brother

• 25:20Speaker 01

  and Scotty was like yeah he's awesome and then as a blue belt I had an OTM patch on my gi and you know

• 25:26Jocko Willink?

  You so you started competing as a white belt you just started getting in there and you were you were so you must have been like sixteen seventeen years old? When you started competing?

• 25:36Speaker 01

  Yeah I think the first one I did was uh seventeen

• 25:40Jocko Willink?

  There's something about you though like the whole time that you've been doing jujitsu you've been doing things that other people weren't doing you've been doing things that at least as far as I know it's kind of it's similar to Dean Lister like my my brother Dean you know he was doing things that li- literally people were not doing and you're the same way as a white belt

• 26:06Speaker 01

  I don't I don't know that early on I was like that I think I was doing Good, I would think I was doing jujitsu right.

• 26:14Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  And just with really good motor skills and amazing balance and it was just normal jujitsu. But done in a way that looks different, you know?

• 26:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it does.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  Dean was actually doing different things. Dean was doing things that were like illegal. You know what I'm saying? I was taking the back, doing triangles, doing bow and arrow chokes, you know, I was, I was. You know, doing attacks on the guard.

• 26:37Jocko Willink?

  I guess, I guess you're right, because now that I think about it a little bit more. Uh, you were doing normal stuff, but damn, you're doing it in an abnormal way. Because even today, you can go watch your videos from when you were a white belt or a blue belt and you're like, that does not look like normal jujitsu. The fluidity of your movement. I know you were teaching class yesterday. And you were going through this thing where you're like, hey, just sit here and bounce back and forth and now. And you're just talking about shadow wrestling. And so I'm sitting there like just doing what I'm told, like, okay, we're bouncing back and forth. And then you're saying like, hit a single, hit a double. And then you're like, all right, stay in your square, but stay in your square, but now. Get, get it down, get down in half guard, get that deep half guard. And you're doing this shadow, like there's no other people. And I'm watching you do it and I was like, damn, I'm a loser. I am such a loser.

• 27:21Jocko Willink?

  Because I can see that you're getting better with no partner. Just doing the moves, doing the movements. Your brain is just tapped into going through and making it happen. And I was like, God, I'm such a loser. And you're literally saying like, this is how you can get better. This is how you're gonna, I'm thinking, God, I'm an idiot. How did I not be doing this for all these years? Uh, going back to the story though. You started competing, you started kicking ass really early. I mean, you were freaking, you came onto the scene in a fury.

• 27:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, for my, against my peers, I always did really well.

• 27:58Jocko Willink?

  Hey, how many hours a day you're, so you're like, oh, Pete Trainmore, you must have been training freaking.

• 28:03Speaker 01

  I mean, tr- training, like, I think when people say training, they mean like rolling.

• 28:08Jocko Willink?

  Oh, I mean, on the mats.

• 28:09Speaker 01

  I mean, I was assisting in every class. All of Frenchie's private classes, his women's self-defense classes, his little kids' classes.

• 28:17Jocko Willink?

  How, how long a day, how many hours a day were you at the academy?

• 28:20Speaker 01

  I mean, it was like, if I missed more than two classes, the whole like free jujitsu thing was over.

• 28:26Jocko Willink?

  So you're, you're, you're doing five classes a day, four classes a day?

• 28:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:31Jocko Willink?

  Every day?

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I didn't roll.

• 28:34Jocko Willink?

  No, you're not gonna roll every single class, but that's the thing. And I noticed this is another thing about you. You have a way of rolling. That is. It's not rolling fully. But it's rolling. It's like a playful role where you're going through wild positions and crazy things are happening and that's another thing. And you know what's I used to watch you do this when you taught here. And I'd be like, oh, yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. And I kind of thought of it as like a cool thing. And then I just realized when you were here and I was watching, actually, I was watching you and Pete roll and I was like, oh, this is how this bastard's getting so good. Cause he's trying all this wild stuff against a partner that he's kind of playing with that playing together.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:13Jocko Willink?

  And that's a different thing. And I remember that actually Dean and I used to do that. Dean and I would do that where we're sort of going. But. We're also kind of just playing, but if it's going to work, you can kind of tell it's going to work. And if it's not going to work, you can tell it's not going to work, but you don't get all locked up in one position. And sit there across the side for 48 minutes, which is not much.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  You have to play before you can fight. It's like in boxing. A boxing coach won't hold pads for you unless you're good at shadow boxing and bag work first, because you're going to fucking hit him. You know, you're going to hurt him. As a jujitsu coach, I don't want to work with a jujitsu student. That doesn't have a good stance. I'm like, let me see your stance. And they're like, I don't know what to do with my hands. I'm like, whoa, you're not, I'm not rolling with that dude. He's going to hurt me. And if I roll with him, I'm going to only, only win. There's no like letting this dude get anything because he's going to do it wrong and hurt me. You know what I'm saying? And then I start feeling bad because I'm just breaking some dude off like as hard as I can and he's all brand new. And he doesn't understand. I'm just trying not to get hurt.

• 30:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, that was a another interesting thing. You told me one time you said, hey, for me, the easiest people. For me, Jeff Glover to go against is like big muscle guys. And I witnessed that countless times where like some big jack guy would come in here. And you could see, you know, whatever he's thinking he's hanging on to is not there anymore. Like a half a second later. It's gone. You're all of a sudden slipping over there, slipping over there. Um, how about your flexibility, bro? You got some wild flexibility. How much of that is natural and how much of it is work?

• 30:48Speaker 01

  I mean, it's all natural. I don't stretch.

• 30:52Jocko Willink?

  Never stretched?

• 30:52Speaker 01

  No.

• 30:54Jocko Willink?

  That's crazy.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  You ever see me stretch Pete?

• 30:57Speaker 02

  No. He just like does like freak show stretches. Just to show people like he'll twist his ankles around. But as far as like going out there and doing yoga, we went to like meet some chicks one time.

• 31:12Jocko Willink?

  How was it?

• 31:13Speaker 02

  No, I mean, he was more flexible than everyone like.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  We're not falling for that again.

• 31:18Speaker 02

  No, so you know Glover is one of those people. You know, if you tell someone, you know, not to use your strength. But then I tell them not to use your flexibility. So then. You know, we all have talents that we should, but yeah, the way Glover and I play is uh.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  I trust Pete, I trust this dude, you know.

• 31:37Speaker 02

  We warm each other up in case we really have to do something. As far, most people, see, we're expecting to be rolling. And then some dude wants to challenge us, so we're warming ourselves up at all times. As opposed to hurting each other and then someone walks in the room and then what? Then we're already hurt. Like the way we play. He's getting sharper, I'm getting sharper. And then if we really gotta do it.

• 32:04Speaker 02

  Then we do it. We're sharpening these things pretty much. We're not, we're not putting in battle because we already know what it could do. We'll keep it sharp. This thing's pretty sharp.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  No, that one's not sharp at all.

• 32:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:18Jocko Willink?

  So, so Jeff, you're saying, uh, you know, white belt, blue belt, you're kinda. Doing normal jiu jitsu moves, you're just doing them super fluid. And again, anybody go watch YouTube or whatever and check out some of the stuff. Well, what's the first thing you remember kinda? Kinda thinking, hey? I'm making this up. This is new. Like I, I'm creating this thing right now.

• 32:42Speaker 01

  I don't know that I did it intentionally. It would be. Uh, somebody else pointing it out to me and be like, hey, did you notice you did this when you rolled? And I'd be like, no, I have no idea what just happened. I was just, you know, responding to all the training that Fringia put me through. And it would just work, you know?

• 32:59Jocko Willink?

  You're a deep half guard? Is that, I mean, you're definitely known for the deep half guard, especially back in the day. Do you, was that something that you were like? All of a sudden you realized you had this position? I remember you teaching me. Deep half guard. And the coolest thing was you do deep half guard to me and you just like sort of posed the question like what are you gonna do Jaco cuz you're 225 pounds and where are you gonna go? And you have you have control of my leg. It's like your whole body is on my leg, but then I can't do anything. Was the deep half guard, is that was that the first thing that you started getting recognized for as like your own thing?

• 33:43Speaker 01

  It was our team's thing. Frangia used it just as much as I did. So did Bill, so did Tyrone. Anybody who was winning tournaments from Paragon team was using that fucking sweep. But I think I think what I did was I recognized that all the sweeps are not just randomly used. It works best when you have an initial off balancing movement. And I realized at that point that I was doing that. I was going into deep half guard and just trying random moves and hoping they would work and often they would. They would oftentimes work. I would be like, let me try this random move and boom, the guy would get swept. Like, oh, cool.

• 34:23Jocko Willink?

  And then would you load that into your repertoire?

• 34:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:26Jocko Willink?

  Of like, okay, now I got another sweep.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  Well, I dude, it's I had the light bulb when I realized it was only three sweeps. I thought that it was like 15, 20 different things I had to learn. When I found out like, oh, my God, I keep repeating these three things over and over again, and it took me so long. I used to do like three months. It would focus on three months on one move. Every time I rolled with somebody, I was only doing alma plata for three months. And at the end of three months, I was I was fricking, I hated that move. I felt like a cheater if I was I was so good at it that it wasn't fun anymore. You know what I'm saying? When you got a move that is just works for you so well, you feel like you're cheating, you know, doing it to white belts. You're like, what? How good do I really feel about that? You know what I'm saying? I'm setting the bar higher for myself. So it didn't get like that with deep half guard. It got to like year three and four and I was still

• 35:12Speaker 01

  like excited to use it every time I rolled and it was making life so easy.

• 35:17Jocko Willink?

  And you started seeing the clarity and the simplicity actually get narrowed down over time because you thought deep half guard with so many different moves, but really you can sweep them to the left, you can sweep them to the right, or you can come out the back. That's kind of what it is.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  Basically, yeah. It's always gonna be a variation of one of three moves, yeah.

• 35:35Jocko Willink?

  And they all set each other up.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  They're all, yeah, there's a whole, there's a whole thing that's really easy to learn, you know, if I can grab your leg, I can show it to you and explain it to you in like five minutes. And most guard systems do not take five minutes to explain. Most guard systems, you need like two hours. And I can honestly give you the gist of this system in like under 10.

• 35:56Jocko Willink?

  No, it's

• 35:57Speaker 01

  Pete explains it better than I do, to be honest with you.

• 35:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's one of those things that when I, when you, when you were teaching here and I was like, this stuff is, it's crazy. How, it is pretty simple. I mean, when you, you were already to the point when you came here, I mean, you were a freaking champion and everything else. So you were not only highly proficient at the move, you're also highly proficient at teaching it. And all the little drills, another thing that Jeff Glover has. Drills. Little physical drills that make you better at the movement, that make you better at jujitsu.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  Motor skills, somebody said that to me the other, other day. They're like Glover, you got motor skills. And I was like, hmm.

• 36:39Jocko Willink?

  I said that to you the other day when you were teaching. No, what I said was, I feel like if Jeff Glover's watching me try to do one of his moves, he just thinks this guy's an idiot. Like this guy doesn't, doesn't have any motor skills.

• 36:54Jocko Willink?

  So you, you're in this competition mode. So now we're talking like, what is it now, the year 2000, 2001, now you're competing all the time, 2002, 2003, you're mopping up competitions. The other thing that's rad about Jeff Glover is, uh, what's Jeff Glover's weight class? Whatever. Dude, all those old like grappling quest videos where you're going in against guys that are 300 pounds, literally 300 pounds, 240 pounds, jacked, big, giant dudes. What was the story behind that? You just didn't give a shit?

• 37:28Speaker 01

  Deep half garden.

• 37:29Jocko Willink?

  Deep half garden.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  The bigger they get, the more I use the deep half garden.

• 37:32Speaker 02

  You come out the back door.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, up on a single.

• 37:35Speaker 02

  Any of them.

• 37:36Speaker 01

  They all work really well.

• 37:38Speaker 02

  See, if not, when you're caught in that quarter guard position, when someone's trying to mount you. If you look at the last ADCC with the super fight of Gordon versus Galvao. Gordon had him trapped in the quarter guard, so Galvao had two options, or three. He could either accept him out, turn stomach down, give the choke, or he could have went and did Jeff Glover right there and dive under the leg and went deep half guard. That's something you gotta be kinda crazy to do.

• 38:09Speaker 01

  It's the deep half, the way I teach the deep half guard, you'll never get mounted again. You don't get mounted and you don't get your back taken.

• 38:16Speaker 02

  It's the anti-mount, pretty much.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  It's anti-this. Here's how jiu-jitsu used to be when we all first started, okay? It used to be you go from close guard to mount. There's none of this like knee slide to side control shit first. It was go from close guard to mount, and when dudes are good at that, it fucking sucks.

• 38:32Speaker 02

  That's what Roger Gracie does.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  And that's what Gordon's so good at that now. He's so good at just going straight to mount, dude. You know what I'm saying? And that's what I used to have to defend with Frenzia all the time. And Frenzia gave up on trying to tell students to do that shit. Cause everybody on the grappling scene, they were all like, "Oh, knee slide to side mount." Frenzia was like, "That's whack, go to mount." And people were like, "But that's harder." And he's like, "Yeah, at first it's harder, but the end results, dog." You get a mount where the submission is just right there now. It's like a checkmate type mount. And he was like, "Whatever, nobody wants to listen to me." And we were, the whole community, we were all like, "Knee slides, knee slides." And now Gordon's showing you guys, "Knee slides, mount."

• 39:06Speaker 02

  Right? Constant pressure.

• 39:08Speaker 01

  So this deep half guard is designed to deal with that shit.

• 39:11Speaker 02

  To get under that mount.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  To deal with that shit right there.

• 39:14Speaker 02

  That's how Glover's able to beat these big guys because he can either stay there and get trapped and mounted, or he can dive under. And diving under is scary. Because they're right above you. And if you don't know what you're doing right there. Most people try it and then they kinda get, was it claustrophobic, right? They get claustrophobic and bail on it.

• 39:36Speaker 01

  And they panic and they bail.

• 39:36Speaker 02

  They panic.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  They're like, "It doesn't work."

• 39:38Speaker 02

  Doesn't work.

• 39:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, that's another thing you and I were talking about the other day, Jeff, is when you first try a move in jiu-jitsu. It's not gonna work. I mean, it may work like 10% of the time. But it's the same thing with anything in life. When you incorporate something new into your life, if you're working at a, at a business and you incorporate some new process, at first, it's gonna be less efficient. That's the way it works. So you're gonna, no one knows exactly how to do the process, so everyone's kinda messing it up and they're taking a little longer, and so you're gonna get less efficient when you first start trying a new process in a business. Same thing in jujitsu. You bring some new move into jujitsu, it's, it's gonna make you worse for a while. And I said for a while, you were like three months,

• 40:22Jocko Willink?

  because you were teaching a whole nother series the other day, and I was, I said to you, I'm like, bro, I'm gonna get my back taken a lot when I start doing this. And you go, yeah, you are. And I was like, yeah, cool. That's the way it is. And I got done, I was rolling, and I was like, hey, I got my back, back taken. And you were like, yeah, you're gonna keep getting your back taken for a while. And I remember there was a position I used to teach, and, and I would teach it to people. For me, it was like my main go-to position of how to pass guard. It was like kinda unstoppable. And I would teach it to people, and then I'd see them try and do it. They'd be all awkward and all off balance and stuff. And I would say to them, they'd be like, I feel like I'm gonna get swept. And they, they would get swept.

• 41:04Jocko Willink?

  And I'd say, hey, man, you gotta get comfortable in this position first. Like, it's gonna take you a while to get to where you can just be here and just be like, oh, nothing's gonna happen. You can't triangle me, you can't arm lock me, you can't sweep me. I'm totally comfortable here, and I'm gonna pass your guard. But it, but it takes a while to get used to that stuff. In order to do that, you gotta put your ego in check. I remember watching you Jeff roll, you like, people are just getting, you're just giving up a rear naked choke.

• 41:31Jocko Willink?

  80% of the time you get out. 20% of the time you tap. And you're like, cool, let's roll again.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I was getting paid in those classes, you know.

• 41:43Jocko Willink?

  But that, if you're not doing that, you're not going to improve.

• 41:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't, you know, I like, I like making the students truly believe they got coach.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  You know, like, like, like, they, they go home, they're like, tonight, fuckin'.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  They're like, I swear to God, I tapped coach today. No, he legit, like, tapped hard and everything. And he was struggling, grunting. And I don't take time to explain to them, whatever they want to ask, did I really get you? I'll be like, ah, you know, explain it to them. But if they don't ask, I let them go home. I'm not going to be like, I let you, by the way. I let you get that, by the way, just so you know. Like, I'm like, nah, good job today, dude.

• 42:24Speaker 02

  You try to match their energy almost.

• 42:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 42:27Speaker 02

  Match, match their heartbeat. If they start going harder, we start going harder.

• 42:33Jocko Willink?

  Alright, so what, when did you? So what, what was like the highlight of your competition career, Pete?

• 42:40Speaker 02

  Well, then, well, okay, so, let's see, besides Rafael Lovato and, and myself, there wasn't too many Americans pretty much going to Brazil. Rafael would come out and visit all the time. His dad was cool. He wouldn't live to Br- in Brazil, but he'd come out and, so him and I were able to do well out there. And so they put us in the great Kid Pellegrino. We would usually get ripped off in tournaments, like, we would, I would compete more than him, but the Brazilians liked us because we would get ripped off. There was no internet so much and, you know, like, the last time I competed in Brazil was against Brawley Osteema and it was like my fifth match of the Worlds and I should have won.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  But then they, they gave him a timeout. They called the referee. He brought over an oxygen tank right after a deep half guard swept him. I dumped him, then they called a timeout. They brought him all the oxygen. They put him in his best move. I didn't even know what was going on. I was like Carlson came out, he made the switch to ref, he threw out one of his cousins of the referee and then it was, it was, you just realize like in these type of games, you could get cheated.

• 43:54Jocko Willink?

  They fed him some assai.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  In the tournament, basically, we didn't, in those tournaments back in the day, you just stuff someone in a position you were good at and the time would run out and you'd win. That's how, I wouldn't have the flashy wins, because I would beat people that I wasn't supposed to beat. I would go to Brazil and beat all those guys and they would never expect that. And I don't even remember most of their names, but there was a lot of good ones and all the Brazilians knew me. And then when I came back to Chicago, Carlson had moved to Chicago, but the level was low.

• 44:29Jocko Willink?

  In Chicago?

• 44:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it was just like regular people training.

• 44:33Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  And so BJ Penn had called me, he's one of friends at Scotty and I went over there and I was, I was living with BJ Penn and that, that was a good highlight.

• 44:42Jocko Willink?

  In Hawaii or in Hawaii and Hilo?

• 44:43Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. So I lived over there for a while. So I'm actually Pete, the Greek, Brazilian, Sicilian, Peruvian, Hawaiian, there's a whole bunch of them. So I lived over there in Hawaii and Hilo.

• 44:54Jocko Willink?

  Do you know Jack Daniel? Jack Daniel Hill? He was another guy that lived over there and, and trained like six hours a day.

• 45:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was just me and BJ Penn all day, all day. He'd pick me up and, you know, Hilo's one of those towns where it's adrenaline rush all the time, it's raining and stuff and we're just having fun cruising and have like Randy Couture come in and teach us how to wrestle and he fought Leota Maschida at that time.

• 45:23Jocko Willink?

  So how long are you, how long are you living in Hawaii for?

• 45:26Speaker 02

  For a while.

• 45:27Jocko Willink?

  Can you put that in some kind of a time perspective?

• 45:30Speaker 02

  I'm still there. Like if you go there, they, they remember me, like, look, I'll just, I'll just be honest with you, I went back to Brazil, first time in 16 years, it was in the middle of COVID, everything was shut down, I'm talking about everything, no one on the street, I brought gorilla hands out there.

• 45:47Jocko Willink?

  Uh huh.

• 45:48Speaker 02

  He's from Brazil, but he'd never been to Rio and he went with me. And they just let me and Henzo out in the street and we actually bumped into each other just me, Henzo and Gorilla Hands. I have pictures and all of real, only people out in the street.

• 45:59Jocko Willink?

  No kidding.

• 46:00Speaker 02

  And they thought I still lived there. They think I'm related to Henzo. Like they think I'm one of them.

• 46:05Speaker 03

  That's how it is when I visit here. But you look like Henzo.

• 46:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, or they look like me, I don't know. We all look like each other.

• 46:11Speaker 03

  Do you still live here? You're moving back?

• 46:12Speaker 02

  They have no idea I ever left. You know, wherever I go, they still think I live there. If you go to Hilo, you know Pete. Even here, I'm kinda still, Jeff and I are still here even though we're not here.

• 46:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 46:23Speaker 02

  And so we leave that type of presence because we love jiu-jitsu.

• 46:26Jocko Willink?

  Okay, so for some unquantifiable amount of time, you're living in Hawaii.

• 46:32Speaker 02

  Hawaii.

• 46:33Jocko Willink?

  Training with, with BJ Penn and this is when BJ Penn is like fighting.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, Matt Hughes, yeah, just won. He had just beaten Matt Hughes, licked the blood off his face.

• 46:42Jocko Willink?

  Which also, let me just throw this out there too. You were talking about how sometimes the tournaments in Brazil could be very tough for an American to win. BJ Penn went down there and won.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  He's not even on the video. So if you get the video from that year, that match isn't even on the video. You know what I mean? So it's like, they, they kinda like put that, and he used to train at Gracie Baja. He's from Health Gracie. But the same thing happened. He got there, there was a hundred black belts on the mat. The first day, everyone trained with him. The second day, no one wanted to even touch him. And so then he went over to another team, Carlson Gracie Black Belt, Novo Niall. Pederneras. He goes over there as a purple belt. He tells me like, Pete, you know, like, I walked up in there, I was nervous. He walks up the stairs. And Hobson Moore is like one of their best black belts. Like I triangled him day one and they're all like, they were surprised. He was a purple belt.

• 47:30Speaker 02

  And then they were like talking shit. They're like, oh, you know, it was lucky. He goes back the next day. He's like, I triangled him again. And then they gave him a brown belt and they're a competition heavy team. And so they needed someone at black belt in the weight class. They put him and he won. And then I was there at purple belt the next year. I think he won 2000. So 2001, I was at purple belt. They weren't gonna let that happen again. They're like, no way dude. They're like. They're like, you're not coming here and doing that again. So, but you know, people like you. If you're supposed to lose and you win, it's just like if you're a crowd favorite, people like you. Doesn't matter what the medal says. And um, I won a lot, but then in Hawaii, I hurt my neck.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  How'd you hurt your neck?

• 48:13Speaker 02

  So we went to Sandy's Beach, which is like a notorious beach for hurting people. And BJ Penn and them, you see, he'd leave me in control a lot. When he'd go to Japan and stuff like he'd, he would tell his brothers, Pete's in charge. So it left me like, it's hilarious. So, you know, after some time, I ended up at this beach and I hurt my neck. So that took me out of the competition scene.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  What happened to your neck?

• 48:39Speaker 02

  I got slammed on my, um, I got body surfing.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  Isn't it called Break Neck Beach?

• 48:44Speaker 02

  Break Neck Beach. I had no idea that the most dangerous beach in the world. They didn't tell me. They're not going to tell you, you know what I mean? It's like you're in a, you're in a room full of staff. No one tells you mercy or whatever. It's like, yeah, you know, just lay on that couch. So it's the same thing.

• 48:57Speaker 01

  That was a jab at me. I don't know if you guys knew that was a jab at me. Cause he thinks all my couches have ringworm and staff on them. Fuck you, man.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  He didn't train MMA, but MMA people, when you, if you go to their house and you sleep on one of their couches, like it's like a joke. They're like, yeah, you can stay here as long as you want. Just stay on that couch. It's like a joke. Cause you know, like day four, dude's just gonna be itching everywhere.

• 49:19Speaker 01

  Wow. I haven't had ringworm or staff in years.

• 49:23Speaker 02

  Jeff doesn't do MMA. It's, it's crazy MMA fighters from back in the day. I'm not telling, Jeff is clean and he's a, he's a great friend. He's a conservative American.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  Well, I, I have personally witnessed Jeff kick people off the mat for doing whatever kind of stuff that, that was uh, non-hygienic.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  No, Jeff's great. I mean.

• 49:40Speaker 01

  But hey, how, so what, what, what was the injury to your neck?

• 49:43Speaker 02

  So um, I get slammed on my neck. And I was like, fuck dude, I thought I was paralyzed and I, and I, man, those little guys. I heard some people laugh and I started getting pissed. BJ Penn grabbed me out of the ocean. Cause they think it's funny like if you, if you get hurt at first, kind of.

• 50:01Speaker 02

  End up being hurt, you know, end up being like injured.

• 50:05Jocko Willink?

  There's an entire series of movies called Jackass, which is literally about that right there.

• 50:09Speaker 02

  And like their main friend came to me, he's like, you know, anytime you want to come back here, we'll build a house for you. They're just like, they're happy that I took it like a man because most people are gonna be, and I still stayed there for months, like four or five months.

• 50:20Jocko Willink?

  Did you get surgery? Did you get a neck brace?

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was just, it sucked so bad. Ended up taking a v-.

• 50:25Jocko Willink?

  Did you get numbness in your arms?

• 50:27Speaker 02

  It was fucked up. At first, when I got hit, I was completely numb. I thought I was paralyzed. I was like, I hit it and I was like, whoa. And then you shake something off, I was like, whoa, like, whoa, I'm paralyzed. This sucks. I'm like, this sucks. And I kind of like started accepting it. And then I thought about, well, one girl, when I was eighteen years old, I traveled to Cancun. One of my best friends, she died in ocean undertow and they called me crying, like, we lost her in the ocean. I go out there, I find her. Just when I was eighteen. We were on the news and everything in Chicago. We came back. Anyways, first thing I thought of when I, I thought of her when I got paralyzed. I thought of her. I was like, whoa, I was like back in the ocean again. I'm like, fuck, I'm paralyzed. This sucks.

• 51:12Speaker 02

  And I heard these fuckers laughing. And then I felt the pain come. It was the best pain in my life. It was like real pain. I was like, ahhhh. And I look at BJ Penn. I'm like, I'm hurt, my friend. And he's like, he looks at me, grabs me up. He felt like bad. He felt so fucking bad. And he grabs me out. His friends didn't know any about it. I used to smash them all day. It was like purple belts, just random Hawaiians. I'd smash the shit out of them. They were so happy.

• 51:39Jocko Willink?

  Random Hawaiians is great, yeah.

• 51:43Speaker 02

  I'm just saying, like, I was there for BJ Penn. I wasn't there like, these guys, they're just like adrenaline dudes. Like, they'll just show up. Like, they're the type of guys that show up when you win and they run when you lose. You know what I mean? And he knows what I'm talking about. BJ Penn, my good friend. So it was like those type of friends. They weren't like top-notch fans.

• 52:01Jocko Willink?

  So now you, how long before you could train?

• 52:04Speaker 02

  Fuck this shit. I go back to Chicago. I'm pissed. I was Pete the Greek, Brazilian Hawaiian, back in Chicago. I was like, fuck. Carlson has lost his team. He was like, fuck. We became best friends. We're just like, whoa. We're like, we need to gather ourselves. So like, he's on the phone calling like the shoot box coach, which was the other best team, the hated top team. He's like telling him how to dismantle everyone. He's like, yeah, if you're fighting like this guy, he's like, be nice to Minotaro, because he wasn't a bad guy. We just tell him how to dismantle these people. They call him up and it was just funny. Carlson was great and we would study MMA videos every night.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  And um, not like, like however, how Jeff and I studied jiu-jitsu, we study MMA and we watch Fedor and everything. Carlson, what do you do here? And he'd stop it and explain it.

• 52:55Speaker 02

  And then I start learning. And then we met Stefan Bonner. Stefan Bonner walks in as a blue belt. And uh, like Carlson, like fuck, I had to say, let's put this guy to fight, you know? Big guy, strong guy, tough guy. We taught him the kimura. And UFC calls up, we're like, hey, put him in. Because Carlson, like that type of person, like people that you think are really big, Carlson has talked to him like a kid, like, Dana White, you know? Put him in. And uh, Stefan changed the whole damn game. Well, of course, Vitor did before, but UFC got boring. Until Ultimate Fighter came out. And then um, that's why Dana White and all them, they love me.

• 53:37Speaker 02

  And, no, because we all, when Dana White come to Chicago, he take Gibson's. Every time he shows up, he gets a wine from my friend from Pete the Greek. Like automatic, like he's had him like fifty times. So we go in there, Stefan, like blue belt, and those one move. Those like the fight of whatever, the century against Forrest Griffin. Because when you fight against Carlson, guys, you have Carlson staring at you. So he's like, he's not a mean guy, but he's a spiritual guy. So it's like, you're just like, fuck, I'm fucked. You're fighting that guy, you're fighting the whole history, it's everything. And Stefan, he knew enough. He did the Golden Gloves boxing. Knew the kimura.

• 54:18Speaker 02

  And he was strong. If he grabbed that damn kimura, your arm's getting ripped off. And uh, he did that. He changed the whole game. The UFC went from rags to riches. They were dying. Now everyone watching it again. UFC's huge. People are buying pay-per-views.

• 54:37Speaker 02

  And that's what I did when I was in Chicago and Miguel Torres came too. We helped him out. And um, at then he won the W E C. And that's when Dominic Cruz took over his weight class. So it's all like related and then I became from the Dominic Cruz. It's all like, those are the smaller guys. Those are the smart guys.

• 54:57Jocko Willink?

  When did you open your academy?

• 55:00Speaker 02

  So I had surgery. Mark Coleman, I'm over at Cobra Kai. Cause for the Ultimate Fighter, I was like their bodyguard. It was funny. I'm not a big guy, but they like me. So Steph invites me. And um, so all the guys, Chris Lieben, they're all there. And I'm in the limo with them and it was for the Ultimate Fighter Caesar one. And we're all, it was like uh, for the grand finale. So we're all at Lehman's Cobra Kai and what's his name tells me, what's that big wrestler Mark Coleman? He's like, hey Pete, great. I just had back surgery at Dr. Joe. It's a guy in Pittsburgh and I show up there and the guy fixes my neck. He does like the dissectomy. He's the best. He's like, he's like a sniper. He'll fix you. So I go there. And I'm like, yeah, I'm here for Mark Coleman. He fixed my neck.

• 55:43Speaker 02

  But I didn't want to, I didn't want to to compete again. I said, shoot, I'm like one injury from being away from homeless. I better open a gym. Like it was like, I'm like looking for shelter. Like where do I go? Who can I trust? I'm back in Chicago. Like I was even in Brazil. Shoot, Rio de Janeiro, Hawaii. Now I'm back in Chicago with a broken neck. People are laughing at me. Like I, I went and worked in the ghetto of Chicago.

• 56:12Jocko Willink?

  Doing what?

• 56:13Speaker 02

  So my friends, they're getting all happy like, ha, ha, ha. We knew you'd end up getting hurt. I'm like, you fucking assholes.

• 56:21Jocko Willink?

  And you got hurt?

• 56:21Speaker 02

  I end up getting hurt. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter. The people see you like you got hurt from that jujitsu. I'm like, oh, okay. I'm like, yeah, I'm here to work a job. And so I got my real estate license and I was working for my friends doing section eight housing. So I'd pick up people from the projects, they return the projects and bring them to apartments. And I was like, fuck dude. Like I don't want to do this. And then it wasn't bad, but I'm a jujitsu guy. Like I'm having like really like, I'm like, I don't wanna really have to use jujitsu. I wanna like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. So I opened up this little gym, like a real little one. Glover came.

• 57:01Speaker 02

  He was in a sketchy neighborhood. I remember Glover's first day, like the guy comes in, Glover's on the door waiting for like, he's like, y'all do tap out? Cause I had a tap outside. Y'all do tap out?

• 57:11Jocko Willink?

  Wait, that's what Glover said when he walked in?

• 57:13Speaker 02

  No, the guy that seen Glover outside the thing. Remember the first day outside my gym? He remember that. Cause I had a big tap out sign. So people in Chicago thought that I did, they thought jujitsu is called tap out.

• 57:22Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 57:23Speaker 02

  It's crazy. So then I um, I opened up this little gym. Everyone's telling me, you know, you're gonna get shot. You're gonna, I'm like, yeah, right, dude. I opened up the gym and bam, I get my best friends, best students right from there. They're so cool. Cause right on North Avenue and Western are the two biggest streets in Chicago. So it pretty much, everyone can get there from the south side to north side, from downtown, from everywhere. It's a little gym, like six hundred square feet and um, man, I made my best friends from there. They knew I was hurt. I told them straight up. I'm like, look, my neck is hurt. I'm like, you guys just gotta get good. I'm gonna tell you what to do. I'm not gonna fight you. Just learn how to listen.

• 58:05Speaker 02

  And um, man, we got a lot of students in there. It was crazy. Like cars parked outside. Next thing you know, all my friends are opening up gyms next to me. I'm like, oh, thanks. You guys are great friends. Like you see, business is going great. And um,

• 58:21Speaker 02

  shoot, gym, gym got big. Kids, students, I opened up a giant gym and um,

• 58:30Speaker 02

  things were going great. Glover then came to my giant gym. I always have Glover out for, he's always like, I'm like, guys, we're having a seminar.

• 58:36Jocko Willink?

  When did you guys meet for the first time?

• 58:38Speaker 02

  Like with Scotty.

• 58:39Jocko Willink?

  That was, that was through Scotty?

• 58:40Speaker 02

  Everything's Scotty. I would have never been, I would have never been, Scotty taught me how to be a California boy. I was just like Chicago, like cold winters, I didn't know anything. I'm like, yeah, I just need to smash and win, fight. And then Scotty shows you like surfing, he shows you everything.

• 58:58Jocko Willink?

  How to roll a joint, stuff like that.

• 59:00Speaker 02

  Scotty had one of those scooters like uh, Like a quick scooter in Brazil and we would just go like you're going like forty miles an hour on a scooter. He had the first digital camera. Scotty's like from the future. Back then, now I don't know, I, cause now he's with the hospital stuff. I haven't spent too much time with him. But back then he was from the future. He'd teach us all this stuff. And um, man, Hawaii, Brazil, everywhere. I go back to Chicago. It's kinda like, it's like a community service. Like I'm, I'm really helping out people. Um, Chicago's like a barter system. It's like a third world country. People don't wanna pay you that much. They'd rather just barter you. And it works out good because everyone there has like connections, this and that. And this guy owns that place. He owns a restaurant.

• 59:45Speaker 02

  You know, if you try and charge him, you end up getting less. So you're like, hey, everyone trains for free. So at my gym, people pretty much pay, um, it's like here, you don't charge people that much, Jaco, like.

• 59:56Jocko Willink?

  No, we try and keep it as, we try and keep it so people can come in.

• 59:59Speaker 02

  And I don't have overhead like you. Yeah, I've overhead much lower and so it's like, dude, I know if you have money, I know if, you know, like pay what you think you should. Like, you know, if there's food in the kitchen, eat what you deserve. And uh, my guys understand that and I could make a lot more money being there, but I wouldn't be in jujitsu. Like, I'm doing jujitsu as service with the Glover, with the Rotolos, with BJ Penn, all these people. I'm, I'm doing a higher service. I could be at home teaching white belts. And they might quit in a few months. They might win a tournament and I can make a lot more money for sure. Hundred percent. But if I'm looking at it from service, like, like we help the whole world. We're all over the place.

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  The weed is better in California.

• 1:00:47Speaker 02

  And cheaper.

• 1:00:49Jocko Willink?

  And legal, right? Is it legal in Chicago?

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  That's a big part of it, yeah.

• 1:00:53Speaker 02

  Chicago, you go to the store, it's like forty percent taxes, you know? And um, yeah, I love Chicago. Hey, I love that place, but with my broken neck. See, I got hit by, okay, so I open up the giant gym. Bam, Glover comes over like, who are we doing the seminar with? Jeff Glover? I'm like, yeah, again, every seminar is with Glover at my school. Like, it's, it's just the way it is. And so um, we had a couple other ones, but most of them, like eight out of ten seminars were with Jeff. And um.

• 1:01:23Speaker 01

  The sickest I ever got. was one of the seminars I did at your school. You took me to.

• 1:01:29Jocko Willink?

  The Burger King.

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  He took me to Burger King twice on the same day. And yeah, it was coming out of both ends. And I was, you know. Pete's like, you all right in there Glover? I was like, I hate you, man. I'm down in this basement, you know, like I got a great home back in San Diego waiting for me like this place was here. And I'm like in Pete's basement. Vomiting, I can just taste the like chicken, remember chicken fries?

• 1:01:53Jocko Willink?

  It was chicken fries.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  Oh damn, I hate that shit.

• 1:01:56Jocko Willink?

  This is gross.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  Oh, it was bad. Yeah, that's when whenever Pete talks about this, that's all I ever think about.

• 1:02:01Jocko Willink?

  So, so.

• 1:02:01Speaker 02

  So my back's feeling great.

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  Closest I ever felt to death, dude.

• 1:02:04Speaker 02

  Let me tell you what happened. All of a sudden Jeff comes over, I'm feeling great. And drunk drivers hit me and and and break my my neck again and my back. And then I was just like. I can't live here anymore. It's too cold. And then I went and lived with Glover. Glover Glover, what'd you used to call him? You were my therapist.

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  Did I? I don't remember that.

• 1:02:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're my, you're my physical therapist. So then I met you guys.

• 1:02:27Jocko Willink?

  So, so, so Jeff. When you started, uh. Compete, when you started like competing for real, like now you're. Like no, when you started doing. The worlds. And it's like two thousand seven, two thousand eight. What's your life like at this point? What's your training schedule looking like? It's just jujitsu, jujitsu, jujitsu, right?

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  I mean, the the jujitsu is the only thing that was not chaotic.

• 1:02:54Jocko Willink?

  Well, what what's chaotic?

• 1:02:56Speaker 01

  I mean, just.

• 1:02:57Jocko Willink?

  Life.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  Social life, family life. Finances.

• 1:03:01Jocko Willink?

  Where do you live? Where are you living during this time?

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  I live, Joe Stevenson let me live in his place for like two months.

• 1:03:08Jocko Willink?

  Big daddy.

• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  I mean, I was living all over. I was living in all these places.

• 1:03:11Jocko Willink?

  And your whole, uh, existence is just to train jujitsu?

• 1:03:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, pretty much.

• 1:03:18Jocko Willink?

  Are you, are you still with, with Frangia this whole time?

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  I went between, I started, this is where I started go realizing that like this one place thing wasn't for me. That just being with Frangia wasn't gonna cut it. And Mark Lehman was already a big influence to me making those videos. Mark Lehman was the first YouTube, you know, and uh.

• 1:03:40Jocko Willink?

  Where's Mark Lehman?

• 1:03:41Speaker 01

  He was in Vegas. He, he went back home to Michigan.

• 1:03:44Jocko Willink?

  Does he have a school out there?

• 1:03:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. He's all low key though. No, no Instagram, nothing.

• 1:03:49Jocko Willink?

  He was a beast.

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  But he was very influential. And uh, it's cool because I get to say now I trained with Mark and Dean.

• 1:03:55Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:55Speaker 01

  Cause Mark and Dean were the two big. It was like, who are the best Americans at the time? It was always Mark Lehman and Dean Lister.

• 1:04:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

  And they fought and I got to be, you know, I've spent so much time with both those guys. And um, yeah, you know, I started doing the Mark thing and I told Frangia, Mark offered me a job in Las Vegas, a full-time teaching job. It was my first full-time teaching job and Frangia's school, it was like, Frangia, can you match what Mark's offering me? And he was like, sorry, boy, I can't, you know? If you want to keep assisting me for free, that's cool. And I was like, well, I think I'm right. So I went to Mark Lehman and like when Frangia gave him my black belt, he tied it around my waist and I had already told him, you know, I was making the move. And he like, in my ear, he was like, you know, he was like, boy, go show those guys how we do the paragon jujitsu in the Las Vegas. I'm proud of you. You know what I'm saying? He's like, you, you, you welcome back anytime, boy.

• 1:04:43Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying? So, so I started going between those two places. And actually, that's like when I started hanging out with like Rudy. That's when I met Rudy at tournaments and Rudy would, I would come visit Rudy. And that's how I started making friends with all you guys.

• 1:04:57Jocko Willink?

  Right on.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  You know, and um, it was like, yeah.

• 1:05:02Jocko Willink?

  How many hours a day are you training at this time period?

• 1:05:06Speaker 01

  I mean, I would train in every class I would teach and I would take Mark's classes, yeah. So it was still, it was still, until recently, it was like, you know, four times a day, every day.

• 1:05:19Jocko Willink?

  Eight to 10 hours in a month.

• 1:05:22Speaker 02

  We take naps though.

• 1:05:24Jocko Willink?

  How many hours a day are the Rotolos on the mat right now?

• 1:05:27Speaker 02

  We gotta take naps once in a while.

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  Frequent cat naps, yeah.

• 1:05:30Speaker 02

  And then you gotta be in nature. I think nowadays it's different training. Now we do more nature training.

• 1:05:35Speaker 01

  I'm doing recovery. I'm all about recovery now.

• 1:05:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's good to be outside a lot. With surfing, like, you know what I mean?

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  I got into surfing, yeah.

• 1:05:44Speaker 02

  The Tolo's taught me how to surf the other day.

• 1:05:47Jocko Willink?

  Nice.

• 1:05:47Speaker 02

  So I surf with them. They like, they surf a lot.

• 1:05:51Jocko Willink?

  Uh, when you were training and like, let's say you were getting ready for ADCC or you're getting ready for, you know, the Worlds. How much drilling you doing?

• 1:06:03Speaker 01

  Nothing changed. All's I, I, I did everything the same. And I, I think there was one tournament that I actually had like a professional coach. But it was just-

• 1:06:13Jocko Willink?

  What, like a jiu-jitsu coach?

• 1:06:14Speaker 01

  No, like a fitness nutrition, a guy named Chris Eckland in 2011. And, uh, he had me doing all kinds of shit.

• 1:06:22Jocko Willink?

  And how'd you feel?

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  I mean, I, I, that was the best year in my competitive life, yeah.

• 1:06:27Jocko Willink?

  So he, he, you stepped it up and then that made you better?

• 1:06:32Speaker 01

  He would, he would like frown at me if I was baked.

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  You know, he'd be like, Jeff.

• 1:06:40Jocko Willink?

  You're making me feel bad for all the times that I've smiled at you and you were baked.

• 1:06:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like, you know, he would be like, what did you eat today? And like, stuff like that and, and make sure I did like real, like weightlifting stuff. And that year, that was 2011 and I had the best results that year, like, hands down.

• 1:06:58Jocko Willink?

  Did-

• 1:06:59Speaker 01

  But other than that, I never trained hard. I know, I mean, I trained hard, but I didn't work out.

• 1:07:03Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  There was no weights. There was no, uh, what do you call it? Stadiums. There was no stairs. There's no elastic bands. There was no box jumps.

• 1:07:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:13Speaker 01

  There was Taco Bell. There was Taco Bell, video games and just dope ass jiu-jitsu.

• 1:07:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's the thing.

• 1:07:19Speaker 01

  The best technique, the most like dork about it. I would go down the rabbit hole of what's next, what's next? Move after that. Twenty, thirty move combinations before the dude would just give up and I would tap him.

• 1:07:32Speaker 02

  Glover trains in his sleep, I think. That's where, that's where the magic happens.

• 1:07:36Jocko Willink?

  Dean does that too. Like, you know, when he would fight and we'd all like, we were all broke and everything. And so we'd all stay in like one hotel room and like, I'd sleep on the floor. But you'd like wake up. And Dean would be there like asleep, but he would be trying, he'd be like, like not just, his legs would be in a triangle and like triangling air. And then you'd see him like roll over, but when he'd roll over, he would like, he would like adjust his feet and get like a body lock. Like I'm not kidding, like that's where he would sleep, like he would sleep, he'd be doing jujitsu when he was sleeping or like he'd be asleep and his, his hands would be like on a rear naked, like he'd be asleep, like one hand under his head, but his hands are in a rear naked choke. So he's just like dreaming of, of jujitsu and sleeping, sleeping that way.

• 1:08:20Speaker 02

  I met Dean in Brazil when I was out there. Uh, he'd hang out and my dad and I, my dad came and my dad's a big, strong guy too, like Dean, like I'm a runt compared to my dad. And, uh, he just loved me hanging out with Dean. He's like, ha, ha, ha, like, ha, ha, your friend is a cool guy. Strong guy, Pete. You know, he's like looking at me like, why can't I be like Dean? You know, I'm just like, whoa. So like they, they'd always hang out. It was like for like three weeks and Dean showed up to Scotty's house. And that's where I met him and cause Scotty had a little mat. I lived at Scotty's house on the weekend. During the week I lived, uh, mostly at Oswaldo Owls, which is a little gym where Andre Gavau lived in and Jacare. We all lived in there together. Andre was a blue belt.

• 1:09:07Speaker 02

  And at that time, it, that place, they would lock the door on Fridays. So if, if they locked us in, we'd have to stay inside. There was no way out. It'd be like the door to victory locks on, on Friday until Monday. So me and Gloria, I figured shit out on the weekend. If we're living in the little, it was a little gym, a little bit bigger than here. So. I would leave and go to Scotty's house in Baja. It's like 40 minutes away. It was like vacation. Scotty had his house set up like a hostel. So all these people would come stay. They have the mats. I think we had the original, yeah, Dean brought the guys from, um, I think they're the original friends of yours. And he brought them and Dean wasn't allowed to train. They wouldn't let him train anywhere because he went like the year before and leg locked everyone.

• 1:09:49Speaker 02

  So he was banned from every gym and he had ADCC coming up. And I was kind of in a similar situation. So we just, um, Scotty had a little thing right in the, in the, in the living room and Dean just trained with me. And he went the first day and lost. It was Tony De Souza was also staying over there. Tony got disqualified for making the guy too bloody. They disqualified him for being too mean to the opponent. No one even seen that match. But Dean, Dean was kind of bummed out. We went and hung out and like, we hung out with some chicks and had fun that night. And he's like, I'm gonna do the absolutes. And no expectation of winning. Goes there and just crushes it.

• 1:10:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:30Speaker 02

  And then I was like, whoa dude, like this is so cool. Like, that's when, yeah, that's when I met Dean. He just became ADCC champ. He was like, he just turned into like national superstar Brazil like after that fight. And he leg locked everyone. And then like, I kind of felt happy about that and.

• 1:10:47Jocko Willink?

  I was reading, I couldn't go down. I was, I was, uh, I couldn't go down for whatever reason to, because normally I would corner him, right?

• 1:10:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:54Jocko Willink?

  And I couldn't go down. And so I'm reading the updates on the interwebs. In the guard forums? No, it wasn't on in the guard. It was on, uh, submission grappling, I think submission grappling.com. And they're putting, but they're, it's a translation from Portuguese. But it's like some kind of a computer translation that someone's translating it and posting it. And I remember, paid a pano, that in, in Portuguese, that translates to cloth foot. And so it's saying like, the American, no, cloth foot has the American in an arm strangle.

• 1:11:34Jocko Willink?

  Then it says, this American has tubes to his lung. The cloth foot cannot make him tap. It was, and I'm like, oh dude, he's winning. And then it's like, uh, the American got his back. I was like, ah, you know, I'm like reading this. I first was in my car, I was in my freaking minivan. Yeah. I was like in my minivan, like, ah, yeah, you know, totally fired up that he's, he's doing this and. Ends up with the

• 1:11:56Speaker 02

  Dean's like a national hero anywhere I go. Like if we go to Brazil, he's like, we hung out in Chicago. It was great. I just feel like Dean's in there in the bar. He's like, yeah, I'm his friend. He's a great person. Shoot, you guys really helped out Glover and I, because my dad, like I said, he's like a strong alpha dude, but I didn't really grow up with him that much. I worked with him. And I think Glover and the same, we have strong moms and stuff, but like meeting you and seeing how you do things really helps us like, uh, right Glover? We got, we got pretty serious.

• 1:12:29Speaker 01

  Mostly echoes arms kind of.

• 1:12:31Speaker 02

  We got serious.

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  Changed my life in a profound way.

• 1:12:34Speaker 02

  Tried to better our lives from meeting you. Like that's the truth. Glover, right or no?

• 1:12:39Speaker 01

  I'm joking, of course. You know that. You guys know that.

• 1:12:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:42Jocko Willink?

  Jeff, when you, when you, you always give Dean some, some credit or a lot of credit, actually, when I watch like interviews, you'd be talking about Dean and you'll be talking about like how he helped out your leg lock game. Did, what, did that happen when you were teaching here? You were already leg locking and heel hooking people, right?

• 1:12:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I mean, Dean motivated all of us.

• 1:13:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  Anybody, even those who didn't train with him, we were all like.

• 1:13:05Jocko Willink?

  What is this guy doing?

• 1:13:06Speaker 01

  Dean, leg locks are bullshit. Yeah, but Dean.

• 1:13:10Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:13:11Jocko Willink?

  Best comeback ever.

• 1:13:13Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying? And Frangia, that was the one, that was when Frangia, like, I heard him admit like leg locks worked. He was like, look, there's this guy, Jeffy. I was like, what? There's this American guy. He's tapsol. I was like, what? He tapsol, he's like, I would leg lock Jeffy.

• 1:13:30Speaker 01

  You know, he was like.

• 1:13:34Speaker 01

  Sad day, dog. Fuck. But, uh, you know, it's like, Dean made it okay for us. You know, that when an OG would be like, no, no, no, no, be like, shut up, you grumpy old OG. This guy's making them. They're legit. So.

• 1:13:47Speaker 02

  It is true.

• 1:13:48Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:13:50Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's uh, what about the game like I'll read about your game like you'll do donkey guard, which is for anyone that doesn't do jujitsu, it's gonna be kinda hard to explain, but just imagine someone that you're gonna fight. And what they do is they turn around, get on their, get on their hands and knees and like jump, go attack you with their ass, basically is what it looks like if someone doesn't know.

• 1:14:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:14Jocko Willink?

  That's freaking mayhem dude.

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's based off defense, it's based off self-defense. I'm a master of people grabbing me.

• 1:14:23Jocko Willink?

  So you want them to grab you?

• 1:14:24Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying? I encourage you to grab me in positions that, you know, they think is good and, and my self-defense shit kicks in and it just does what it does and I have a heel hook, you know, it's a combination of like the flying leg scissors technique, you know, um, that and just kind of doing things backwards.

• 1:14:45Jocko Willink?

  The level of confidence that you have, it might be unmatched, I don't know if anyone wants to echo.

• 1:14:52Speaker 01

  I would agree.

• 1:14:52Jocko Willink?

  Unmatched level of confidence.

• 1:14:54Speaker 01

  Unmatched.

• 1:14:54Jocko Willink?

  Unmatched level of confidence.

• 1:14:56Speaker 01

  Like no one's even close.

• 1:14:57Jocko Willink?

  I think it's an unmatched level of confidence to see you compete and see you just offer positions to your opponent that seem insane.

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  I would rather look stupid than look scared.

• 1:15:14Jocko Willink?

  I don't, I also don't think that there's been a grappler that is more, I hate to say this word, but like more entertaining to watch, like watch it, like I go watch you, I go watch you all day roll jujitsu, I go watch you all day, like I told you, I have like videos of you and my son, like, like, you know, one, one year, one, like the next year, like eight minute videos, you guys are just rolling and I just, I'll just watch them, cause it's just, even though you're going against a kid, I'm like, God, what is he doing? I don't, I look at what he's doing right there, but then when you watch you compete the same thing, it's freaking amazing to watch.

• 1:15:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I've worked, I've worked very hard to be as good at jujitsu as I am.

• 1:16:00Jocko Willink?

  That level of confidence though, un, kinda unmatched.

• 1:16:04Jocko Willink?

  I mean, even like you've been teaching a series this week. It's like stuff I've never even, well, it's weird cuz you started teaching this series. And you know, I watched you here for five years. I watched you give your back to people. I watched you like do these weird positions. I'm like, wow, man, that's just like a Jeff Glover thing. And then you were explaining it the other day. I was like, oh, this is not just a Jeff Glover thing. It's just that Jeff Glover is doing something that I didn't understand.

• 1:16:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I I trust my jujitsu. Don't you trust your jujitsu?

• 1:16:36Jocko Willink?

  Sometimes, not as much as you do, bro, at all.

• 1:16:38Speaker 01

  I trust in it, dude. My coach used to tell me, believe, and I believe, dude.

• 1:16:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:43Speaker 01

  I believe.

• 1:16:43Speaker 02

  Jeff doesn't reference other people when he does things. He'll just think of it and do it way cooler.

• 1:16:48Jocko Willink?

  No, that's like, that's why I say, dude, I feel like an idiot. Like, you're like, oh, don't you trust your jujitsu? I'm like, not as much as you do, bro, apparently. Cuz you're just in there just not caring what happens and still, you know.

• 1:17:00Speaker 02

  Jeff moves well.

• 1:17:01Jocko Willink?

  I'm the worst, actually. I think I'm the worst.

• 1:17:04Speaker 01

  People ask me about you everywhere I go do my seminars. They're like, what's it like to roll with Jaco? And I always tell them, like, you were always so nice to me. You and Dean and Echo, you guys are always, you know, so gentle with me. I'm so little and I go all hard and you guys are like, ah, little Jeff. And like, one, one time you actually like turned it on and put me in a kimura, you know? And people love when I tell them that. Like, there's no point to that besides people being like, whoa. Jaco? I'm like, yeah, he's really good.

• 1:17:31Jocko Willink?

  No, that's, that's, well, I was, you know, would feel like I wanted to learn how to kind of roll that, that way where you learn more, you know?

• 1:17:41Speaker 01

  You guys were all nice to me.

• 1:17:42Jocko Willink?

  I'm not a good roller and learner. Ah, you're, that's what you do. And I tried to like get that from you, to be a good roller and learner.

• 1:17:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:50Jocko Willink?

  Which is, it's ridiculous.

• 1:17:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It's, it's more fun that way.

• 1:17:55Jocko Willink?

  No, I can see. That's something that.

• 1:17:57Speaker 01

  Lasts longer.

• 1:17:58Jocko Willink?

  To this day, for sure. Yeah, I mean, I got like neck surgery. Why'd I get neck surgery? Freaking Dean Lester trying to choke me and I'm not happy.

• 1:18:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was gonna say, Dean, Dean wasn't as nice to me as you guys were.

• 1:18:08Speaker 01

  Dean would hold me and like growl in my ear and shit. Look at Glover, he can't get up. Look at, by the way, everybody, everybody, come here, look at.

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  By the way, you ever seen, uh, you ever seen a man get out of this? Watch Glover, try to get out.

• 1:18:22Speaker 01

  Look, he can't. Look how weak he is. He can't get out.

• 1:18:24Jocko Willink?

  That's, that's like being nice compared to what Dean.

• 1:18:27Speaker 01

  It's done to you. I've seen you been, I know. I saw that shit.

• 1:18:30Jocko Willink?

  It's humili- it's, it's like a, a test in humiliation, right?

• 1:18:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. I gained a lot of respect for you.

• 1:18:36Jocko Willink?

  How can I do jujitsu? I have 225 pounds. I lift weights every day. Freaking training jujitsu every day and a, a, a, me, I'm a grown man. And Dean would put me in positions where I could not move or he, you know, could not look, could not move my body in any way. How's that happening?

• 1:18:57Speaker 01

  No, I remember you'd say that.

• 1:18:58Jocko Willink?

  And he's like holding me with one.

• 1:19:00Speaker 01

  And he doesn't lift weights.

• 1:19:01Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 1:19:02Speaker 01

  You're like, Dean never lifts weights.

• 1:19:03Jocko Willink?

  He would say stuff like that. He'd be like, he'd be like, you need more CrossFit jocko right now. Where's your CrossFit? I thought you could squat a lot. What are you doing? How's that squat working out right now?

• 1:19:13Speaker 01

  That's perfect, bro. That's so good.

• 1:19:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:15Speaker 01

  We all say that stuff. Yeah, he did that shit to me too.

• 1:19:17Jocko Willink?

  It's good, but it's not good, but, but so, so speaking of like the Dean Lister jocko thing, cause I will say thankfully, I got to be Dean Lister's guy, you know? In those years when he was becoming a champion, I was the guy. I would, I would train with him every day. We trained two hours, three hours, four hours a day. You need to have someone like that in your life. Uh, you had Bill the grill.

• 1:19:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right.

• 1:19:42Jocko Willink?

  That's your guy. So anybody that's doing jujitsu, you need to find that, that guy. And the only, like, we talk about the play for rolling and look, I just talked about Dean. Like humiliating, and believe me, he'd humiliate me. A- any day I'd get a position on him. Bro, I would go twice as hard humiliating him and having fun with it. Payback's a bitch though. But for jujitsu, you gotta find somebody or like, it's probably gonna be one person. It's hard to even find more than one person like this. But someone that's gonna be your, like, true brother teammate that you're gonna roll with, you're gonna learn with, you're gonna work on stuff, you're gonna stay after, you're gonna drill stuff, you're gonna get tapped out by each other, you don't care. It's just like that. You had Bill the grill.

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:27Jocko Willink?

  How'd he come into the scene?

• 1:20:29Speaker 01

  He just, he did, you know, he just started showing up.

• 1:20:32Jocko Willink?

  How far behind?

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  He's, he's five years younger. He was 13. He was 13 when he started, but we had him in the adult class. By the time he was 15, he was the Purple Belt National Champion. Breaking off adults. Him and Crone Gracie made it to the finals of a tournament. They were both 15 years old. Tapped eight dudes on the, in the way to meet each other in the finals. And it was like, you know, like dude, kids can be really tough.

• 1:20:56Jocko Willink?

  Oh dude, I had that conversation with Lovato Junior. We were at ADCC. Cause he was like 17. He was, he was actually, and I know he was 17. I don't know how old I was, but I was like 20. I was maybe even, I was a grown, definitely a grown man. And I was like, dude, you beat me. Goes, I said, dude, you beat me. I said, we were Purple Butts. You beat me. And he goes, I beat you twice. He beat me in the weight class and he beat me in the absolute, bro. And I was like, hell yeah, that's a 17 year old. I, I don't remember how he beat me in open, but he swept me like I, you know, sometimes you get swept and you're just like, man, I hope no one got that on video. Cause you feel real ignorant.

• 1:21:35Speaker 01

  Thunk, you like landed hard.

• 1:21:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, he just did like one of those sweeps to me that I was all just dumb. And, uh, you know, it was just awesome. But yeah, a li, a guy that's young. You know, I don't care. Like a 17 year old can work out a lot, but he's not gonna be, he's not gonna have man strength yet. You know, and that was badass Lovato just, just, just retired. But man, we made it two rounds. At ADCC against the best in the world.

• 1:22:00Speaker 01

  It's hard for me to talk about Lovato cause.

• 1:22:02Speaker 02

  He's a good dude.

• 1:22:03Speaker 01

  He's just.

• 1:22:03Speaker 02

  He just came to my gym.

• 1:22:05Speaker 01

  It's just so much to say.

• 1:22:06Speaker 02

  We met him from Scotty too.

• 1:22:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Good friends.

• 1:22:09Speaker 02

  There's another one, OTM.

• 1:22:10Speaker 01

  I would see him at every tournament. Yeah, we were bros.

• 1:22:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Those got, well him, you, you guys were just competitors.

• 1:22:18Speaker 01

  He would go to, he would go train with Lehman a lot. A lot of people would make their way to Vegas to spend time with Lehman and I would run into them there. Cause Lehman hired me as his jujitsu teacher for two and a half years.

• 1:22:29Jocko Willink?

  How many classes a day were you teaching there?

• 1:22:30Speaker 01

  Like, you know, a full ton thing. Like I, like I was doing here, like four a day.

• 1:22:35Speaker 02

  I almost had that job too.

• 1:22:37Jocko Willink?

  It was a good job.

• 1:22:38Speaker 01

  The Lehman job?

• 1:22:39Speaker 02

  Lehman job, but I went to, I went to Hilo instead. Cause what I used to do is this, I used to stay in Vegas. Monday through Thursday and then drive over to. To Los Angeles, this is after I got back from Brazil. I would drive over to Los Angeles and train at Eddie Bravo's school and that's how I met them. Joe Rogan, Eddie Bravo. Uh, Tate Fletcher.

• 1:23:00Jocko Willink?

  Oh yeah.

• 1:23:01Speaker 02

  That was in the Bomb Squad. I had my friend, uh, Rob Kamen. Uh, he's the Dutch Kick Boxer and they're over there and so, cause in, in Vegas, the hotel's like forty bucks a night. I'd stay in Harrah's and the weekend like three hundred. I'm like, oh, I'm going to LA. I would stay at Scotty's brother's house, sometimes Cade, which was, um.

• 1:23:20Jocko Willink?

  I also used to live there.

• 1:23:22Speaker 02

  So when Scotty left Brazil, he became like the Los Angeles guy. So anytime we go to LA, we hit up Scotty. And Scotty knew everyone and everything and.

• 1:23:33Speaker 02

  And shoot, and Glover. That's when I got hurt. You know, I was, I, I wanted to be an MMA fighter. So I, I was more interested in like, I'm like, you know, I'll put the medal aside.

• 1:23:41Jocko Willink?

  What was your weight?

• 1:23:41Speaker 02

  BJ Penn. I was a lightweight, light in the middle.

• 1:23:44Jocko Willink?

  When did you guys? See the no gi versus the gi? Like at what point did you see that as sort of what? You were gonna do?

• 1:23:54Speaker 02

  ADCC. That would be like when. Well, with my coach Carlson, he didn't like the gi. Like, um, Iliel Gracie put him to fight his first MMA fight with the gi and he told, I'll never do that again. You're crazy. You know what I mean? He took that down. And, um, and that was that. And then that Carlson Gracie team never really used the gi too. They used it for the kids. They use it to warm up. But the best guys, like Carlson would just grab someone by the neck. Like this, it doesn't matter if they're a kid or not. And if they'd flinch like this, like, no, no, you're just jiu-jitsu. And if you go like this and the kid, like, ah, he's like, okay, you're fighting.

• 1:24:30Speaker 02

  Even if they're adult, it's just, he's not even, he was already older, but he'd go like this. Like, ah, and the kid's like, ah, like a man who grabbed Nick Diaz like that, he's gonna be happy.

• 1:24:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:38Speaker 02

  Oh, you.

• 1:24:39Jocko Willink?

  You're about to fight.

• 1:24:40Speaker 02

  You go here. And so that's, that's how our team was, um. And Carlson, he was nicer to the bigger guys. Like, so if you're like a Rona size, he'd be real nice to you. If you're like my size, it's kinda like. You know what, Pete? Like Jeff gets the same way, dude. And Jeff gets around the big, big guys. He, he gets mean to me a little bit. Carlson the same way. No, but I'm just saying like big people, they give a good presentation as far like Dean, he's an example. You.

• 1:25:07Speaker 01

  I respect bigger, I respect size. I'm a little dude. Big dudes scare me.

• 1:25:12Speaker 02

  He likes.

• 1:25:13Speaker 01

  Whether they know jujitsu or not.

• 1:25:14Speaker 02

  Glover always has big friends, dude, some strong, tough guys, dude, like come around like fuck Glover.

• 1:25:19Jocko Willink?

  The weird thing about Dean is he's a mutant because he's still so flexible.

• 1:25:23Speaker 01

  He is. It's crazy.

• 1:25:24Jocko Willink?

  It's a weird flexibility.

• 1:25:25Speaker 02

  Dean's special. He's like the Rotolo brothers, like Glover, like BJ Penn. He's all special, like. What do you think? They're special people, right? We're all pretty special, Jocko, like.

• 1:25:34Speaker 01

  Jujitsu people are some of the coolest people in the world today.

• 1:25:38Speaker 02

  Are, we have the DNA, like it's a, has to be in your DNA to be a superhero, at least know something of jujitsu.

• 1:25:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, there's, there's definitely a threat of like, uh, it's, you know, they say, uh, martial arts, right? Like it's an art, like an art form. And then you think a stereotypical artist, you think like somebody, a rock and roll artist, like he's a little bit crazy. Like a painter is a little bit crazy, a poet's a little bit crazy. Let's face it, the jujitsu player, if he's gonna be good, he's gonna be a little bit. He's gonna have a little bit, there's a decent chance, I should say, he's a little bit crazy.

• 1:26:14Speaker 02

  Especially like a deep half guarder to go under someone like that. You have to be.

• 1:26:19Jocko Willink?

  But you gotta be, you know, when you talk to Dean, you, you start talking to him about jujitsu, he knows weird things about jujitsu. It's like you were saying about Glover the other day. Like you asked Glover some question, some detailed question about some weird section of jujitsu. And all of a sudden he's talking to you about something and you're like, how do you know that? How's it possible that you know that? That's the way, that's the way Dean is. Have you ever asked Dean like, if you say Dean, like, uh, hey Dean, I'm having trouble with this triangle. And he'll say, what kind of triangle? And you say, what do you mean? And he'll say, well, there's nine types of triangles. And you know, then he'll tell you what they all are and tell you all the specifics about it.

• 1:26:54Speaker 02

  Dean needs a book like that. He's, I think like.

• 1:26:56Speaker 01

  Dean knows a lot of history too.

• 1:26:58Jocko Willink?

  Bro, let me tell you a story about Dean. We were, we were at a, uh, an event. And we were doing some jujitsu, like presenting basic jujitsu kind of self-defense to a few hundred people.

• 1:27:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:10Jocko Willink?

  And uh, he's showing a way to escape someone's like bear hug, right? It's basic jujitsu or basic self-defense. So you grab a bear hug and he's showing, oh, you put the one hand in front of the face and you put the other hand underneath that one and you can make space and you push the person away. And so he shows it a couple of times, this hand goes here, this hand goes here, you push him away, make space, boom. And he goes, any questions? And a guy in the audience says, uh, hey, I have a question. Dean says, yeah, what's the question? The guy says, I only have one hand and he holds up like he's only got one hand. Uh, what, what should I do? And Dean, without missing a beat, like just instantaneously goes, oh, if you only have one hand, you put this hand here, you use your shoulder.

• 1:27:52Jocko Willink?

  He like had the ultimate solution for a person that only has one hand that's doing jujitsu self-defense. Like that's, that's some next level knowledge, you know what I'm saying?

• 1:28:06Speaker 01

  He can improvise because of the amount of knowledge he has. When he improvises, it's not bullshit.

• 1:28:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's the weird thing. It didn't even, he answered it so quickly. He didn't even need to, you know, I would need to be like, well, come on out here. Let's look at it. Let me look, let's go through it. Dean like knew what to say.

• 1:28:21Speaker 01

  No, he's, he's good. He doesn't know how to not say anything else.

• 1:28:25Jocko Willink?

  Ah, it was freaking crazy. Uh, Jeff, what injuries have you gotten from jujitsu?

• 1:28:33Speaker 01

  All of them, you know.

• 1:28:34Jocko Willink?

  What's the worst ones?

• 1:28:36Speaker 01

  I mean, I had a back surgery, but I can't even say that that happened from jujitsu, the injury itself. Uh, I don't know where that happened. I don't know how that happened, but I had like, what'd you have, this micro discepamy is what I had, you know, and.

• 1:28:49Jocko Willink?

  So they pulled some discs out, where in your back, lower back?

• 1:28:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, my lower back and that, that was the most miserable, long, chronic pain I've ever had.

• 1:28:58Jocko Willink?

  And was it like the pain that people get down their legs and all that stuff?

• 1:29:02Speaker 01

  Jeff was crawling around his house. I was crawling. It was to the point where I was, I would wake up. Cry for like an hour, you know, crawl into the shower and then crawl back to bed, call some one of my friends to come feed me. I mean, it was just horrible, you know?

• 1:29:16Jocko Willink?

  That must be, you texted me one time.

• 1:29:19Speaker 01

  Remember dude? I was like, Jaco, help me. Somebody help me dude, my back hurts. I don't know how to.

• 1:29:28Speaker 01

  I was like, somebody help me.

• 1:29:31Speaker 01

  It was bad dude. I was eating Advils and shit because I don't want to take like, I don't know. I don't want to take like pills.

• 1:29:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:37Speaker 01

  Sounds like I'll take the Tylenols or whatever.

• 1:29:39Jocko Willink?

  How long ago did you get that back surgery?

• 1:29:41Speaker 01

  That was in April.

• 1:29:42Jocko Willink?

  And how's the recovery?

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  It's good. I'm back to me. I mean, Jaco, I wasn't even teaching classes. I couldn't, you know, I couldn't do anything like I'm, I'm back to.

• 1:29:51Speaker 01

  Like I, I didn't want to be able to roll again and I'm rolling again. I was like, I was like, listen doc, I'm not trying to get you to fix me to the point where I win world titles, dog. I just want to be able to like be on the mat and show a move to somebody without crying, you know? And now I'm at the point where I'm like, shit dude, should I take matches again? Like nothing hurts anymore, man. My surgeon is a jujitsu guy. He's one of Frenji's students and um.

• 1:30:18Jocko Willink?

  And what do you do a discotomy?

• 1:30:19Speaker 01

  Micro discotomy.

• 1:30:20Jocko Willink?

  So he pulls some little disc out, get it away from your nerves?

• 1:30:23Speaker 01

  Ruptured disc, yeah, something like that. Jeff took pictures of it. Yeah, no, they recorded it. They took the whole. They showed like.

• 1:30:29Jocko Willink?

  Just breaking out the iPhone.

• 1:30:30Speaker 01

  Looks like little teeth. The doctor was just so kind to me, man. He, he, you know, he's like, you know, see you tomorrow at six AM for surgery. I was like, what? Doesn't take a week or nothing? He's like, nope, tomorrow. See you there. Got it.

• 1:30:43Jocko Willink?

  And just got it done?

• 1:30:44Speaker 01

  Boom.

• 1:30:44Jocko Willink?

  And how long did it, did the relief was like instant?

• 1:30:46Speaker 01

  Really? As soon as I woke up from anesthesia, I was like so happy.

• 1:30:51Jocko Willink?

  Were you scared about getting back surgery?

• 1:30:54Speaker 01

  Not at all.

• 1:30:54Jocko Willink?

  Or you were just like, hey, I've had enough?

• 1:30:56Speaker 01

  That was done.

• 1:30:57Jocko Willink?

  Cause I know a lot of people, you know, they go through that time period where like, I don't want to get surgery, which I get. Because.

• 1:31:05Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Well, I did that. I went through that like, oh, I'm gonna foundational training it away.

• 1:31:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:10Speaker 01

  There's like a stance that I'm gonna hold for three minutes and it's like none of that shit was working.

• 1:31:13Jocko Willink?

  Yep. So you tried all that stuff and it's not working. And eventually the pain gets to a point. I know people that have had surgeries and they haven't gone great and it sucks.

• 1:31:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:22Jocko Willink?

  So I generally tell people like, hey, if you can put it off, put it off. And then at a certain point, you gotta go, okay, look, I tried and this isn't working. And I know a lot of people that have gone just like you. They they went and got surgery and they wake up and they're like, oh, I'm healed. I mean, imagine that go from debilitating pain, which what you had, you wake up and you're healed.

• 1:31:42Speaker 02

  I did that.

• 1:31:43Jocko Willink?

  What what surgery was that?

• 1:31:44Speaker 02

  Well, I had five.

• 1:31:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeesh.

• 1:31:47Speaker 02

  So first one, it's the first one in Hawaii, they cleaned it out. That was fixed. And then later on, like I had the Glover one in my lower back, but it went bad. Sometimes with those things, like when you get it cut, the disc, the disc comes back.

• 1:32:02Speaker 01

  Like your Pete scar, your scar is so big. Like my scar that I have from the thing, you can't even see it, dude.

• 1:32:08Speaker 02

  When I had my car accident with the drunk drivers, they I also, it made my neck numb again, my arm and my leg. So I had both. I was like, whoa. I like. No, these ones.

• 1:32:20Speaker 01

  There's one here too.

• 1:32:21Speaker 02

  I don't know. There's some, I don't know. But I have artificial discs in there. And so when they put that in there, it took away that numbness. I was just like, oh. But it still gets sore. Of course, it's not perfect, but it took away that you're just like, oh. And I thought I was getting a dissectomy in there, whatever they call it. I went into surgery thinking they were gonna clean it out. And I'm reading on a thing that says disc replacements too. I'm like, oh shit. I'm like.

• 1:32:51Jocko Willink?

  Disc replacements are only like 10 years old, 12 years old in the neck.

• 1:32:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:55Jocko Willink?

  And so it's awesome, right?

• 1:32:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. So he says, well, I did it in, I met these people. I was, okay, I can't tell you everywhere I've been. I've been everywhere. But I'm also friends with Hegan Machado and I was helping him, he was helping me, I guess we help each other, we're friends. In Beverly Hills at his school, I was teaching Ashton Kutcher and all the John Wick guys. And they had recommended Daniel Bernhardt, so he's the director, he's the guy that took over. It's either Michael or Daniel, he took over after Van Damme, remember like in Kickbox, it was like Van Damme, then it became like some other guy? That became him, and then he is the director of all the Matrix stuff.

• 1:33:33Speaker 01

  Ah, okay.

• 1:33:34Speaker 02

  And so, his kids liked me a lot, I was teaching them private lessons. Um, who else is there? Oh, they got Joey Diaz, I gave, I got Joey Diaz in the Jiu Jitsu actually. He um, he did a comedy show in Chicago and he calls me, it was in Indiana, he calls me up, he's like, oh Pete DeGreeck. I haven't met you, but they tell me you're the guy. Found me in Chicago, so I went out there to his comedy show and after his show, um, I'm like, he was talking about martial arts with, with passion, I'm like, dude, you need to join Jiu Jitsu. And he's like, serious? I'm like, and he got like a tear in his eyes and he went back, when he went back home, he actually joined. And when I show up to Hegan's, I saw him there and I did a video and everything and

• 1:34:19Speaker 02

  Hegan's just a cool dude, I don't know why I even brought him up, but I just think of him, he's like a Dean, he's one of those big dudes that like that people just feel inspired around and um, she got the, shoot. If those guys met Glover, they would've went nuts, imagine they like me, they're fricking.

• 1:34:35Speaker 01

  No, Hegan used to make a point to come to me at every tournament and say the nicest stuff to me, dog. No kidding.

• 1:34:41Speaker 02

  This boy is genius, is genius.

• 1:34:43Speaker 01

  You'd say like, stuff like that, I'd be like, dog, you were so cool and nice to me, thank you.

• 1:34:47Speaker 02

  And we used to hang out, Dean and Hegan and I in, in Brazil, my dad and stuff, there was like our little crew and um.

• 1:34:52Speaker 01

  That's what Hegan did, he went to everybody, like, everybody that was coming up and was cool, he would go up to them and just encourage the shit out of them. That's pretty cool. You know, there was like a zero player hater.

• 1:35:02Jocko Willink?

  In that dude's body.

• 1:35:04Speaker 02

  And yeah, like I have a rule with him, like, we're not allowed to talk about jiu jitsu. He's like, he likes me because I remember him of Carlson Gracie. Carlson was his favorite uncle. He's like, if the Machado brothers could have trained with anyone, they wish they would have trained with Carlson. Because that was this part that they didn't get into, the mixed martial arts part. Because they didn't have him as the coach. Like, if Carlson was our coach, we would have fought. And so I remind Hegan of Carlson a lot. He loves having me around and I met all those, those high level people and Joey Diaz and I just wanted to say, man, thanks because that was part of my rehab too. Was, um, I lived at Hegan's house for a while.

• 1:35:39Jocko Willink?

  Rehab for your neck?

• 1:35:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, just like, um.

• 1:35:42Jocko Willink?

  Or for your back?

• 1:35:43Speaker 02

  Let me think which one it was.

• 1:35:44Jocko Willink?

  Car accident.

• 1:35:45Speaker 02

  The car accident got both of them. Because you got, I was on the news in Chicago. It was a big thing, like, took me in all that stuff and it's, the gangbangers tried to run off. So they hit me and they ran off and it was funny. I'm like, these fuckers are running? And they're running away, they're running out of the minivan that hit me. And then they just start dropping because they were injured too. And then like, they take me to the hospital and they thought I was part of them. They're like, no, just listen here, buddy. I'm like, look, I'm the guy that got hit. They're like, we don't want to hear that. I'm like, get me out of here. And I just left. And that was like, um, the same hospital when you see the Joker and Batman, like he's blowing it up. It's called St. Elizabeth. It's right over there in Chicago. I live right in the,

• 1:36:29Speaker 02

  Chicago's cool. I mean, I come from a pizza family, a hot dog family. I'm Sicilian and Greek. So my grandma's side is, um, the Rotolos, it's funny, they're Italian. Their dad, he's actually like, I think we're cousins. We figured it out last night.

• 1:36:45Speaker 02

  Because their restaurant, their related to is called La Villa. That's the last restaurant I ate at with my mom before she passed away. It's right by our house. It's one of the old, old school restaurants, um, shoot, it's like this guy was from Chicago. It's Chi-Town. It's a little town. We all know each other and, um, shoot, Glover over here. I'll tell you one thing. I've met a lot of creative people. Scotty was creative like Glover in his own way as far as putting everyone together. So that Scott, I know I keep bringing up Scotty, but man, I wouldn't have met any of these people without him.

• 1:37:18Jocko Willink?

  He, he like propelled jujitsu through, uh, provided a lot of fuel for jujitsu when there wasn't much fuel for jujitsu.

• 1:37:27Speaker 02

  In, in Brazil, he thought he was Pacquiao and he thought I was Carlson. Glover's like Holes Gracie. Like maybe like different spirits find, I don't know, thinking like that, maybe we find them, but. Holes and Carlson were business partners. Uh, Holes, Holes was the best black belt from the other side of the family. And when he became black belt, he would come to Carlson's and train and sometimes the guys would beat him. There was like two guys that could beat Holes at Carlson's and Holes says, you know, I want to train with you guys. And so Holes came over and Carlson said, wait a minute, you're not going to teach at my class. You can have your own class. So at Carlson's school, they had two rooms.

• 1:38:09Speaker 02

  So Carlson would teach in like room A, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and then Holes would take that room Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. He'd switch and go to the other room the other days. And then they would have a friendly competition between their students and that's how they kept the level so high. So when Holes got, Holes was black belt, he, his, his best black belts were Carl, Carlino's Gracie, you know, he had. He had Fabio Santos, he had, and Carlos Gracie Jr., but most of the guys went to Carlino's when Holes died. Because they want to stick with the Gracie family. But the best one of those guys, not the competitor, but the most technical was Jacare Calacante. That would be like where Frangina comes from. So that was the most technical of Holes.

• 1:38:51Jocko Willink?

  The old, the, the white one.

• 1:38:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he.

• 1:38:56Jocko Willink?

  I went to his.

• 1:38:56Speaker 02

  So that's how we're kind of like, I'm more like Carlson's side, like, you know, uh, no, it's not going to work. Fuck, and Glover's like, no, no, no, just grab me here, grab me there. So that's why we're probably friends because we kind of, we're kind of like opposites.

• 1:39:11Jocko Willink?

  Jeff, what was the discussion you had with, uh, Henner Gracie the other day? Uh, sport jujitsu, self-defense, what was that, what was that discussion about?

• 1:39:20Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, it was like a meme that I saw and it was like self, it was talking about how, how people in, in like self-defense jujitsu will say something like, oh, they, they have problems with tournaments. Mm-hmm. Sport jujitsu. I don't do that sport jujitsu shit. Well. I do that, uh, self-defense style. And he was like, imagine a boxer telling you that. He'd be like, I don't do that sport boxing shit. I just do that self-defense boxing. Mm-hmm. It's like, how crazy would they sound saying that, right? So this is the someone that might think, well, you know, oh, you, oh, you do that, you know, you train on a mat with a gi on. That's not realistic. So you'd get your ass kicked in a real fight. I mean, listen, whatever it was, it was a funny ass meme. And I posted it.

• 1:40:00Speaker 01

  And then, and then one of his, one of his students, some dude wrote just some, some pretty hostile, like, you don't know what you're talking about shit Glover. So I went to his page. And I saw that he was like this scrawny thirty-five-year-old dude, like my size, you know? And I'm like, I'm fuck this dude, you know? So I, I like, I like, I took a screenshot of his belt that he had, cause he had a belt that I had never seen. And I'm like, what is this? Some karate belt, you know? And I was like, look, this is the kind of guy who like argues with me about anything in jujitsu. It's some dude who doesn't even do jujitsu. And Henner was like, hey, what up Jeff? Send me a message. Da-da-da. And I found out that Henner has his own belting system. I didn't know that, dog. I didn't know that either. I didn't know I was personally, he was like, yo, that was a personal attack, bro.

• 1:40:45Speaker 01

  And I was like, hey, first of all, as your friend, cause I've known him for a long time, since we were both like, you know, seventeen, I was like, as your friend, if you feel like I personally attacked you, honestly, whatever it was, I apologize. I was like, I don't want to personally attack you. You're the man, dude. But like on a professional level, I didn't know. Yeah. You had your own belting system. And that I was like making fun of one of your dudes. Whoa. You know, you know what I'm saying? And he's like, yeah, dog, we have this whole system, da-da-da. And he explained it to me for like an hour. And you know, I have ADD dude, I can't be listening to shit like that.

• 1:41:13Jocko Willink?

  I can't imagine you having a one hour.

• 1:41:14Speaker 01

  Dude, I was like.

• 1:41:14Jocko Willink?

  I'm pretty surprised we're holding out right now, dude.

• 1:41:16Speaker 01

  Well, that's, that's how I ended the conversation. I was like, the weed is wearing off. Uh, you made your point. You know what I'm saying? I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. Um, yeah, we all do basic jujitsu, but I don't think like, I don't think like people who only do self-defense will ever be able to beat somebody who does sport jujitsu. And that's the end of my point.

• 1:41:35Jocko Willink?

  I, I had a guy on social media over the last couple of days. Um, he, he posted something, I can't, I wish I could get the exact quote for you. But it was something like this, and I get the spirit of what he was saying. He said, you know, I know this guy, uh, he was something along the lines like this guy wants me to train jujitsu. But I told him, listen, there's a difference between jujitsu and crazy old marine. And you're not going to be arm barring me when I'm gouging eyes, right? And so that was the comment. And he kind of like thought, he probably thought like I'd be like, hell yeah. Cause I love the Marines and I love the military. But I haven't responded to him yet, but I'm going to respond to him and I'm going to, I'm going to say, hey, bro, like,

• 1:42:21Jocko Willink?

  actually you're not going to be gouging anybody's eyes when you're getting choked and arm locked, because that's what's really going to happen. And you know, Dean always has a good explanation of like, oh, you know, hey, uh, some guy will say to Dean like, well, yeah, I would just like bite your face. And Dean will be, Dean's like, yeah, cool. Then I'll be mad.

• 1:42:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, nice.

• 1:42:40Jocko Willink?

  You know, cause then you make Dean mad.

• 1:42:43Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:42:43Jocko Willink?

  Well, you make a jujitsu guy mad. So now when they're mounted on you.

• 1:42:47Speaker 01

  I'm also going to bite your face.

• 1:42:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, we had a friend here, uh, that was a SEAL, a jujitsu guy, and he got into a street fight. And he like was across side on the dude. You might remember he got his ear bitten off, like kind of not bitten off, but like, if you took, if you took a piece of pizza and like turned it to the side and took a bite, not out of like this tr- the tip of the triangle, but like out of the side. It looked like that, like just a bite was gone. You know what I'm saying? Like a bite was gone of this dude, of this SEAL's ear. But now, what happened in the fight? Now he was pissed. He's like, oh yeah, I mean, he just like annihilated this guy, could have killed him or whatever.

• 1:43:28Jocko Willink?

  But yeah, so that self-defense stuff of like, well, I'll kick you in the nuts or I'll, uh, you know, I gouge you or I'll fish hook you. No, you actually, or you may, maybe you will, but it's not gonna help. It's not gonna help. And the other thing is like, oh, well, oh, jiu-jitsu, why would you want to go to the ground in self-defense? Don't want to go to the ground in self-defense. Hopefully you don't have to. Hopefully you just knock a dude out, you know? Hopefully you just, you know, give him a nice one, two, three, and the dude's knocked out and you move on. Carry on with your day.

• 1:43:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, but we landed there and now we're here.

• 1:43:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, but all of a sudden I got, you know, gang tackled or tackled by somebody or tripped and fell. And now the only way I can handle this situation is if I know how to get back on my feet and do jiu-jitsu, unlock somebody or whatever.

• 1:44:11Speaker 01

  And I'm a purple belt Pan Am champ, so guess what's gonna happen?

• 1:44:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'm gonna do all that shit you just said.

• 1:44:15Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be, it's gonna be, uh, not good. Uh, so yeah, that's, that's definitely something to think about. Have you ever had? How has jiu-jitsu performed for you in the streets?

• 1:44:28Speaker 01

  I mean, I've never lost a street fight.

• 1:44:31Speaker 02

  I, I, I'm a witness.

• 1:44:34Jocko Willink?

  What is your go-to move in a street fight?

• 1:44:37Speaker 01

  No, you're not. You've never seen me fight anybody.

• 1:44:43Speaker 02

  I'm a witness. Oh no, I'm not a witness.

• 1:44:45Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:44:46Jocko Willink?

  Ribbon statement.

• 1:44:50Jocko Willink?

  Dude, you know what? You're just imagining how kick ass it would be.

• 1:44:53Speaker 02

  Well, that's what happens when Glover tells you about a fight that he had. It's like, I'm there. Like, I already imagined it because I know his moves. He's like, yeah, I double legged the guy, ran around him. I laughed at him. He tried to chase me.

• 1:45:03Jocko Willink?

  That must be so confusing.

• 1:45:04Speaker 01

  That's what I was trying to say with, with Henner is that Henner is like, he, he, he fails to mention that he's a badass wrestler, dog. He's a dope ass boxer. You know what I'm saying? It's like, how did you win streets fights? I'm like, I never really used jiu-jitsu. I always like faked double legs and then punched the shit out of dudes. When they fell to the, oh, I'm gonna get double legged and I punched them and I was like, well. Didn't even use any jujitsu there.

• 1:45:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:26Speaker 01

  But, but.

• 1:45:27Speaker 02

  When my coach was with, with Iliio, he was, that was his best, he was his best student.

• 1:45:32Speaker 01

  Look, on this subject, it's like I started off with, many truths exist at the same time with this subject.

• 1:45:37Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:45:38Speaker 01

  They, they, they're both true and they're both exist at the same time and it's almost pointless to talk about this.

• 1:45:43Speaker 02

  What do you call it, a paradox?

• 1:45:45Speaker 01

  What do you call that? I don't know, what do you guys call that?

• 1:45:47Speaker 02

  Loaded questions as far as like jujitsu.

• 1:45:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're just. I do a lot of times when people have a strong argument for or against their, they look at it, my, what my brother would call it, in a vacuum. So they'll take a very individual thing, unchallenged in the real world kind of a thing.

• 1:46:01Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 1:46:02Speaker 03

  And then, a concept, no, I'm not saying jujitsu as a whole, but just like how you said, brother, so many truths going on in there. But I'm saying a concept and then they'll challenge it against, sometimes a straw man, but sometimes not, uh, another in the vacuum concept. And then they'll go to battle. But a lot of times, especially, um, kind of what you were saying, in that debate.

• 1:46:23Speaker 01

  Do you know what straw man is, Pete?

• 1:46:24Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:46:25Speaker 03

  Like the worst example.

• 1:46:27Speaker 01

  I'll let Echo explain it.

• 1:46:27Speaker 03

  In a nutshell, it's like the worst example of someone's side. It's usually like inaccurate.

• 1:46:32Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:46:32Speaker 03

  But, um.

• 1:46:33Speaker 02

  I got it. Now I understand.

• 1:46:35Speaker 03

  But either way, like, when you talk about a competitor in jujitsu and then the other side would be like, oh, uh, you, you would never pull guard on the street, which is true, but then they're representing that as like their position.

• 1:46:48Speaker 01

  I mean, I wouldn't say never. I wouldn't never say never.

• 1:46:51Speaker 02

  It's safer to pull donkey guard than full guard in the street.

• 1:46:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then even that, that's not necessarily true, maybe for Jeff and that's all.

• 1:46:59Speaker 02

  No, because if you jump full guard, you're gonna land straight on a pavement.

• 1:47:01Speaker 01

  And to Henner's credit, he, he did say some things that, you know, I think the jujitsu community wanted to hear him say. I asked him if he thought Jan, John Danaher was the number one dude in the world right now.

• 1:47:12Speaker 02

  What did he say?

• 1:47:12Speaker 01

  I'm like, cause we all agree on that. Do you, do you agree with that? Or are you gonna say your grandpa? You know what I'm saying? He was like, yeah, John Daner is number one. I can't deny that. You know, and I was like, okay, do you think jujitsu guys who do tournaments can win street fights? And he was like, yes, I agree with that.

• 1:47:26Jocko Willink?

  Whoa.

• 1:47:27Speaker 01

  You know, I was like, cool. That's what I, that's all I was saying, Doug. I was like, I don't disagree with anything he says.

• 1:47:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, and see, and then the, so the conflict really comes when the, the interchangeability of generalities versus specifics kinda goes on, and that's how it goes.

• 1:47:39Jocko Willink?

  Going deeper.

• 1:47:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, generally, and look, if someone could always say, generally speaking, if someone always could say that, and then when they go specific, they say, well, specific.

• 1:47:49Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 1:47:50Speaker 03

  A lot of specifics have no place in a general argument.

• 1:47:53Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 1:47:53Speaker 03

  So people don't understand that, so they get this, this weird conflict.

• 1:47:56Jocko Willink?

  Mind jujitsu coming out of frigging.

• 1:47:58Speaker 03

  It's pretty deep. It's the way it works. See it happen all the time.

• 1:48:01Speaker 01

  Write that down, Pete.

• 1:48:03Jocko Willink?

  Jeff, I did.

• 1:48:04Speaker 02

  Generalities are different than specifics.

• 1:48:06Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Uh, I always say I'm the, I'm one of the worst people to introduce people to jujitsu because I'm like, big and strong, and so it, if I, when I would like introduce someone to jujitsu, they'd be like, well, that's just because you're big and strong. Matter of fact, to this day, someone will be like, well, yeah, good roll. You're really strong. You're big and strong, or whatever. And I'm always like, yeah, thanks, man. That's why I live.

• 1:48:31Jocko Willink?

  But Jeff, I think you're like, I think you're the ultimate.

• 1:48:34Speaker 01

  I live too, but yeah.

• 1:48:35Jocko Willink?

  I think you're the ultimate person to introduce jujitsu to other people, cuz you're, you are unassuming, and what made me think of that is, dude, I can't imagine the fool and how, how, how crappy it is when someone sees you and they're like, I'm gonna talk some shit to this little skinny white kid right now.

• 1:48:54Speaker 02

  Oh, it happens.

• 1:48:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:56Speaker 02

  I've been a witness.

• 1:48:58Jocko Willink?

  Wait, wait a second, hold on. You gotta watch that.

• 1:49:02Speaker 02

  I, I know nothing.

• 1:49:03Jocko Willink?

  Aren't you Mexican, though?

• 1:49:05Speaker 01

  Uh, my dad is half Mexican now, pretty much.

• 1:49:08Jocko Willink?

  So you are Mexican, is it?

• 1:49:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, my dad, my dad's.

• 1:49:11Jocko Willink?

  You look like a white boy, man.

• 1:49:12Speaker 01

  The half.

• 1:49:13Speaker 02

  He speaks Spanish.

• 1:49:13Speaker 01

  He's like, half white, half Cherokee Indian, so, but they would just say Mexican.

• 1:49:18Jocko Willink?

  Wait, your dad is half white and half Cherokee Indian?

• 1:49:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:21Jocko Willink?

  Is your mom like?

• 1:49:22Speaker 01

  My mom's all white.

• 1:49:23Jocko Willink?

  The lightest person ever?

• 1:49:24Speaker 01

  She is, yeah.

• 1:49:25Jocko Willink?

  Cause damn.

• 1:49:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm white.

• 1:49:27Jocko Willink?

  You were white.

• 1:49:29Speaker 01

  Dude, it would look crazy when I'd be with my grandma. People would think she like kidnapped me.

• 1:49:36Jocko Willink?

  Alright, uh, ADCC. So speaking of which, I saw you up there this year. What did you think of everything? What was your impression? Number, let me start off by saying this.

• 1:49:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's great.

• 1:49:48Jocko Willink?

  Bro, when I went and saw you, when I was talking about going to see you at the ADCC trials, like.

• 1:49:52Speaker 01

  That was literally in like a, what was it? In like a hotel back room or some?

• 1:49:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, like a hotel ballroom. Not a nice hotel either, but just like some shitty hotel and they put some mats on the floor.

• 1:50:05Speaker 01

  I thought it was nice.

• 1:50:06Jocko Willink?

  There's like 200 people watching, right?

• 1:50:08Speaker 01

  Less than that.

• 1:50:09Jocko Willink?

  Less than that.

• 1:50:10Speaker 01

  Just the people there, there was no way to be watching.

• 1:50:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, actually it was just people competing and then people, there's people competing and then watching others compete.

• 1:50:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:19Jocko Willink?

  This one was crazy. It was epic. There was 15,000 people in a big damn stadium. And the jujitsu was just freaking nuts to watch. It was nuts to watch. What are you seeing in the evolution of jujitsu right now?

• 1:50:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's interesting, right? And I have a very interesting perspective. I wish I could explain it. I wish I had the vocabulary to explain that. But like, it's, it's, remember when you first saw those first ADCC matches with the sheik and they're like?

• 1:50:51Speaker 01

  And the boot, the drums and the Arab dudes playing drums in the background. And it's just so, it was something so magical, you know, it was like being a kid again. It was like, it was like all of a sudden, pro, remember when we found out pro wrestling was fake? You know what I'm saying? You were so heartbroken. I was. And then I found Abu Dhabi and I was like, oh my God, it's not like pro wrestling's real again.

• 1:51:09Jocko Willink?

  It's real.

• 1:51:10Speaker 01

  You know, like, like these dudes are real, real. Like Dean's a real fucking pro. Like, like Macho Man is like, you know, that one, that was like Dean Lister. Dean Lister is like a real life Macho Man, you know? So, yeah, it's just every, every year, it's always so special, you know? You could go back and watch ADCC 1996. An untrained eye and watch that shit and be like, wow, that's fucking amazing. You know? I can't imagine somebody who just started jujitsu last year, watching ADCC and being like, oh, what am I getting myself into? That was crazy. You know, am I gonna be doing that? Like, whoa. It's just, yeah, it's, it's, I don't know how, how people, um, don't wanna do it.

• 1:51:48Jocko Willink?

  What'd you think about the evolution of the game? Like what it looks like now.

• 1:51:54Speaker 01

  It's a tough question. People ask that one. That's a tough one. I don't know. Like, has it really evolved? We're all just going for neck, arms and legs.

• 1:52:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's true. I was pleasantly surprised the last couple matches in big tournaments I've been watching because like I'll be here and training and like for this is an example. I'm freaking trying to pass Dean's guard, trying to pass Wes's guard, whatever, what like Echo's guard, like where they spend a lot of time trying to pass guard. And man, sometimes I think, dude, I just suck at jiu-jitsu. Now I need to freaking, you know, like just find a new sport. Go start playing croquet or some shit, you know, like.

• 1:52:32Speaker 01

  Why? Because you're bored or?

• 1:52:34Jocko Willink?

  No, because I suck. And I'm like, dude, I suck. And then we'll go and watch like at ADCC. I was like, I was watching. I was like, that's right. And I'd realized this six months ago. I was like, oh, this is what jiu-jitsu looks like more now. People are better. Their guard is better. Their leg attacks are better. You can't dive into stuff the way you could. Everyone's just better, so it takes more skill and more time to pass the guard. And as I watched all these matches, I'm like, yeah, this is, it's just, it's just a different game now. Now there are evolutions that are happening right now that I'm seeing like Pete, you were talking about him some of the other night.

• 1:53:14Speaker 02

  We're trying to do like, okay, so with the IBGF tournaments that that were before, well, they still have them now. It's um, you don't have to be specifically too good at that many skills. You could be good at two or three positions and hold the person and win. But now at these tournaments, there's submission only or Glover has a ten or tap system. There's ADCC systems. You're getting penalized for just holding a guy in one position. So with no gi, you're not going to be able to hold anyone down when they're sweaty. So what, what people are doing now is leaning on the person and making them carry the weight. And then.

• 1:53:52Speaker 02

  On the bottom, you're pretty much-

• 1:53:53Speaker 01

  That's not changed, it's always been like that.

• 1:53:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I guess so.

• 1:53:55Speaker 01

  I'm finding where the evolution's coming in.

• 1:53:57Speaker 02

  Okay, pretty much-

• 1:53:58Speaker 01

  I'm failing to find that.

• 1:54:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's, yeah, it's just like-

• 1:54:02Speaker 01

  There's just different styles, it's always gonna look-

• 1:54:03Speaker 02

  What's old is new, and what's new is old. Like, look at these old Greek guys like Achilles and Zeus and- Like, those dudes knew how to grapple. I guarantee you, like, who are you kidding?

• 1:54:13Jocko Willink?

  Didn't he come up with the Achilles lock?

• 1:54:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, all that stuff.

• 1:54:15Speaker 01

  That makes sense.

• 1:54:16Speaker 02

  They had the wrist lock guy, they had all that stuff, so it's like-

• 1:54:19Jocko Willink?

  When did you get all friggin' focused on wrist locks while we're going down this rabbit hole?

• 1:54:23Speaker 02

  Okay, so, when I lived in Brazil, I lost to, uh, in the Worlds, it was like my fifth match, and then Oswaldo Alves there, he's an old guy, Andre Galvao-

• 1:54:33Speaker 01

  Just tell this story kinda faster, the weed is wearing off, come on, Peter.

• 1:54:36Speaker 02

  So, they're like, "Come live with us, and this old guy is the wrist lock master."

• 1:54:41Speaker 01

  Can I tell your story for you?

• 1:54:42Speaker 02

  Come on, stop. And then he taught me a couple wrist locks. And then when I hurt my back, I couldn't do arm bars anymore, so if you grabbed the arm, you gotta spin all the way around, like Glover, you see when he grabs someone's arm, he's jumping around. I just, I focus on the wrist and elbow and I snap it. And if it works, it works. If it doesn't work, I use it to pass the guard. You could see like Cade Rotolo, he used a wrist lock against Mika Galvao. He starts snapping his wrist-

• 1:55:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, you highlighted that.

• 1:55:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, Mika pulls out, and then he, he starts coming around, circling, goes back to the center, goes again, Mika hides his wrist. Gives him the pass and he takes the leg.

• 1:55:23Speaker 01

  And then he stuck his leg in, exactly.

• 1:55:24Speaker 02

  And I only had these videos out for a couple of years. Now, mind you, I came up wrist lock the world when I was living with Glover, we're sitting over there in National City over here, working with you guys. And I was so pissed, I was like, "Fuck the world." I'm like, "No." Wrist lock the world. Like, wrist lock, Wu-Tang, like, like, like, "Yeah." Glover's like, "Fuck you, Pete, like, I need something like that, come up with something like that for me." And then like, it just took off. I, you know, I started, um, WTW. Stands for a lot of things, PTG stands for pass the guard, pass the guac. You know, pass the guard-

• 1:56:06Speaker 01

  Pressure the guard.

• 1:56:07Speaker 02

  Pressure the guard, preta. Whomever you choose, there's a lot of things. And uh, man, doing Jiu Jitsu with Glover is fun and I can honestly say like, I, I didn't, I don't have like you had Bill or you had Dean, I had Carlson, he passed away. So it's like my guy is gone. So thank God I end up in the best rooms with the best people that love Jiu Jitsu and lately I've been um, somehow I ended up with the Rotolo brothers, I'm with them every day, we do this foundations training. And we do like spears like this and all this stuff is fixing them. But I get to be around them, so it's fixing me and and the guys are like living in Hawaii where I got hurt initially.

• 1:56:50Speaker 02

  And so it's just, it's all coming full circle and that's what's so cool about martial arts is

• 1:56:56Speaker 02

  it comes around full circle. Last time we were here, I don't even, was there a Jocko podcast when we were here years ago?

• 1:57:01Jocko Willink?

  No, this has only been around for about six years, seven years? Seven years, yeah.

• 1:57:07Speaker 02

  So, so it just, it's all coming full circle and I think the more you love Jiu Jitsu, the more they'll love you and Jeff and I have made, how many videos? I made like, I showed up to BJJ Fanatics, I made Wristlock the World. Danaher's the one that actually got me that job, like, I don't know him so well, but he gets a kick out of me. And they call me up, Bernardo called me up and I show up there and I seen they had a Jeff Glover DVD and their own collection, it was with like another company. I forgot their name.

• 1:57:37Speaker 01

  I thought, I thought Pete was full of shit. I was like, dude, Pete's full of shit.

• 1:57:40Speaker 02

  I'm like Glover, what am I supposed to do here? I've been here like-

• 1:57:43Speaker 01

  Full of shit about what? Just everything he said. I was like, this dude just, he lies about all kinds of shit, you know?

• 1:57:48Speaker 02

  He always thinks I'm a scammer because he hasn't met like, I'm Sicilian and Greek, he's used to like Mexican, white-

• 1:57:54Speaker 01

  And then I met the owner of the company.

• 1:57:56Speaker 02

  He never met me before, he thinks I'm a scammer.

• 1:57:57Jocko Willink?

  Wait, this is BJJ Fanatics?

• 1:57:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:59Speaker 01

  And when, when the guy, he was like, oh yeah, just passively, he's like, yeah, Dean gets these blah blah blah checks every month. I was like, what?

• 1:58:05Speaker 02

  I'm like Glover, get your ass over, he's like, fuck you Pete, I'm not leaving San Diego.

• 1:58:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was like, I don't want to go out there to stupid Boston.

• 1:58:11Speaker 02

  He's like, go back.

• 1:58:12Speaker 01

  It's cold out there.

• 1:58:13Speaker 02

  He's like, it's cold. I'm like, alright Glover. And then I get on there and shit and then Glover always, we always try to top each other. That's what's really cool like so like. What we do is we hang out extremely a lot and then we disband. And we try to like come up, who can come up with more stuff. But I got hurt before him, so like. Like the people are like, they gotta really be into it to know me. They gotta pretty much be into it to know him. They don't even gotta be into it to know Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan like he's the one that probably like, he's like the Scotty now. He's like, he's like. You know what I mean? Scotty was like that, like for us as kids. But now you got like Joe Rogan. And we're all friends.

• 1:58:57Speaker 02

  Eddie Bravo, Eddie's our good friend, like shoot like. He does the other half guard, you know? What do they call him? Lockdown. So like Nemesis, Glover and Eddie, they're kinda like. They're from the same planet or something, I don't know, but. He's my other good buddy. Yeah. Shoot, he gets a kick out of it and we're all, we're all connected and Joe Rogan. Hey, thanks a lot because. Every jiu-jitsu school in the world should thank that guy. For sure. Period, right? Yeah, for sure. Spreading the word. Joey Diaz, I gave him that class. Changed his life. He put the video out and um, shout out to him too. Cause he's um.

• 1:59:39Speaker 02

  Man, he knows everything about martial arts, believe it or not. He did kung fu and all that stuff and I looked at him, I said, you know what? You need to get on the match, brother. And I talk to him at least once a week, like when my mom was on hospice. We call up Joey. He thinks he's really, he's like, yeah, this is your uncle from your mom's side. It's weird. It's like we're really related. And uh. Cool dude. He loves Glover. I know everyone is a.

• 2:00:05Speaker 02

  Yes or no, like dude, these guys call me. Spit that shit, B. Look, my mom's sick. My mom just passed away a few weeks ago, look. Eddie Bravo calls up every night, plays music for her, crazy, crazy. I mean, he's, he calls me up, uh.

• 2:00:19Jocko Willink?

  Do you guys remember the Eddie Bravo video that was Cribs, uh?

• 2:00:22Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that, I'm in, I'm in that video.

• 2:00:25Jocko Willink?

  I tried to find it on, it's not on YouTube. But we gotta get the access to that.

• 2:00:29Speaker 02

  I got it, I got it at home, it's called The Twister, and I'm on the Easter egg, so if you like go up, down, left, right, up, down, left, right, I show up.

• 2:00:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, so it was on that DVD, so that's why I have it, so I must have it, but I don't even have a DVD player anymore.

• 2:00:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a way, um, you press like up, down, left, right, they're called Easter eggs. Scotty's brother Cade, who's like a computer genius. This guy put it in there, so when you put the little code in, and I pop up, and and Eddie Bravo, yeah, he's, shoot, just a regular dude like us, and then next thing you know, he's, he's another one, like, shoot. 10th Planet, they're everywhere. They're nice to Glover and I, like, we've been to, how many 10th Planet schools, teaching centers?

• 2:01:06Jocko Willink?

  There's a, it's one thing that's cool, like, uh, you know, back in the day, it seemed like there was more animosity. And maybe there still is, but between jiu-jitsu schools and all that stuff. It seems like that's not so, it definitely, well, let me say, it doesn't even seem, they're definitely not that, as much animosity as there used to be between, or maybe it's just between all the people we know.

• 2:01:27Speaker 02

  We're in their systems, you know, like, they have moves named after Glover, they have wrist socks after me, I'm sure they have moves. When you're part of someone's system, there's no denying it, you know, like, Glover's got like, they, they have like moves, and they have a system of moves, like, they have like,

• 2:01:45Speaker 02

  how can you not be friends with it, you're in their system, geez.

• 2:01:48Jocko Willink?

  Well, right on, so what, so, if guys are looking to follow you guys now, wanna do a seminar, how do they get to do a Jeff, uh, Jeff Glover seminar in their academy?

• 2:01:57Speaker 01

  I have the same booking agent that Dean has. It's a guy named Dave Herbert.

• 2:02:01Jocko Willink?

  So where do they go, like, is it a website?

• 2:02:03Speaker 01

  Strikers International. It's a, it's a, it's a, you know, booking agency where he does seminars for striking people, and whatever, Dean came to my tournament, introduced me to the guy, bada bing bada boom, he's booking all of our seminars for us and making it easy. So Strikers International on Instagram is the guy's page. And or you could just contact me on Instagram and we can book seminars and flat rate and all that stuff.

• 2:02:27Jocko Willink?

  And your and your Instagram is at Jeff Jeff Glover BJJ.

• 2:02:32Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 2:02:33Jocko Willink?

  You guys are both, you already mentioned this, BJJ Fanatics, which is a compilation website of all the best guys in the world. Making videos, instructional videos, both you guys are on there.

• 2:02:44Speaker 02

  We have a lot of content. Most of the people have a couple of videos. Jeff and I are there a lot. Like we have between the both of us who made probably forty videos in the past year and a half. And um, I'm I'm I just started working with Strikers International too. So you could contact them or you could find us.

• 2:03:01Jocko Willink?

  Dude, remind me after this, let's talk to the boys at BJJ Fanatics and put like a special on when this comes out. You know what I'm saying? So maybe people could buy like a like ten of your videos or something.

• 2:03:12Speaker 02

  There's always like, even if you buy one video, every little bit helps, you know. Jeff and I actually taught, we taught a lot of classes. We remember we taught the, we taught the Marines together and stuff.

• 2:03:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, Joel Hoffman, remember? Colonel Joel, you're trying to hear?

• 2:03:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:03:27Speaker 02

  So there's no discrimination. We're here to teach, you know, and if you're watching this years from now on Instagram, maybe doesn't even exist. Who knows? You can always find us. Pete the Greek, you know what I mean? Jiu Jitsu and Jeff Glover Jitsu and Jocko. You could find us if you want us.

• 2:03:41Speaker 01

  Echo too, don't leave Echo. Oh, he's a black belt. He's a black belt, goddammit.

• 2:03:45Jocko Willink?

  Pete, you're at Pete the Greek, wrist lock the world. Is that one big thing on Instagram? Is it that whole thing or is it just?

• 2:03:50Speaker 02

  That whole thing. Pete, there's some other Pete the Greek guy that's kinda kinda fake. He's.

• 2:03:56Jocko Willink?

  Your your BJJ school is called reobjj.com.

• 2:04:01Speaker 02

  Um, let's see, what's the?

• 2:04:03Jocko Willink?

  And that's also where you can get t-shirts or whatever.

• 2:04:07Speaker 02

  Just go to wristlocktheworld.com. I bought that one. It brings you to everything. Um, on my Instagram.

• 2:04:12Jocko Willink?

  The world.com.

• 2:04:14Speaker 02

  I put a, I put a link tree so you can set up all your links. And like I said, if Instagram's not around in the future, you can always find us, you know. We do jiu jitsu. Wherever there's jiu jitsu, you'll find Glover and the Greek.

• 2:04:28Jocko Willink?

  Right on.

• 2:04:28Speaker 02

  And and the Rotola brothers, I want to give a shout out to them because my mom just passed away. I was feeling down. Jeff, all the way in Santa Barbara and and these kids like. I don't know, I have a good connection with them and and they're about the only ones as cool as watching Glover as far as I'm concerned because most of the matches I fall asleep. And these guys, I get the, they're the only ones that remind me of Glover.

• 2:04:53Jocko Willink?

  Just go, man.

• 2:04:54Speaker 01

  I just want to add, when his mom died, I, I showed up.

• 2:04:57Speaker 02

  No, Glover's great.

• 2:04:58Speaker 01

  I was there, motherfucker. I was there for that, okay?

• 2:05:01Speaker 02

  Well.

• 2:05:01Speaker 01

  Glover was in Santa Barbara, no, I came, I came to be with you.

• 2:05:04Speaker 02

  Well, no, my mom looked at me, she goes, I'm tired of seeing, I'm tired.

• 2:05:07Speaker 01

  If anyone's listening, thinks I'm a bad friend, that's not true.

• 2:05:09Speaker 02

  She's from Chicago, it's a good, and my grandma's Leona, from, these are all like pizza people. My grandma was the first woman in Chicago to have a, a restaurant, a business. So, hey, shout out to Chi-Town, dude.

• 2:05:22Jocko Willink?

  Chi-Town.

• 2:05:23Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 2:05:25Jocko Willink?

  Right on. Awesome. Echo, you got anything else?

• 2:05:27Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, a couple things. Sandy Beach, that's real. Sandy Beach is on Oahu though, by the way, it's not in Hilo.

• 2:05:33Speaker 02

  No, they took me there.

• 2:05:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:05:35Speaker 02

  Hey, we're gonna go, we're gonna go, it's raining.

• 2:05:39Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, so it's very notorious for their, the shore break.

• 2:05:41Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:05:42Speaker 02

  And people read, sure pound, sure, if you will.

• 2:05:45Jocko Willink?

  I'm saying in this scenario, it's probably appropriate to go to the shore pound.

• 2:05:48Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, and it's super common for guys to get injured there. And so, you know, they, they post signs and all that stuff, but you know.

• 2:05:55Jocko Willink?

  Pete the Greek ain't reading those signs.

• 2:05:56Speaker 02

  No way, when you're going with the boys.

• 2:05:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, so you gotta watch out though for that, that it's notorious for that kind of stuff, or the shore break, yes.

• 2:06:05Speaker 02

  Built my spirit.

• 2:06:06Speaker 03

  Watch out for Sandy Beach.

• 2:06:08Speaker 02

  Spirit.

• 2:06:09Speaker 03

  Secondly, I think I figured out maybe five, 10% of your whole thing.

• 2:06:15Jocko Willink?

  Who, Jeff Glover?

• 2:06:16Speaker 03

  Yep, Jeff, Jeff Glover.

• 2:06:17Jocko Willink?

  Please inform us.

• 2:06:19Speaker 03

  You like, you took the, the original structure, if you will, of jujitsu and you were like, oh, wait, there's more stuff underneath the hood here. So you just like, you know how you ever buy like a remote control car? And be like, okay, cool, and you take it apart and you see the motor and you see how everything works, you're like, okay. You take the original structure of jujitsu and then when you roll, you sort of take it apart. Like you do stuff that you're not supposed to do, you let them out, just see what happens, see, let me take off this wheel.

• 2:06:44Jocko Willink?

  Is that reverse engineering?

• 2:06:46Speaker 03

  In a way, in a way, but more and more, it's like a, it's a form of experimentation. So it's like when you do that, you start to see little connections, like, oh, this piece doesn't have to fit here.

• 2:06:58Jocko Willink?

  I dig it.

• 2:06:58Speaker 03

  It can fit like over here.

• 2:06:59Jocko Willink?

  I dig that.

• 2:07:00Speaker 03

  And the reason where one of the days that you were teaching and I figured that out is you did this drill that I'd never been a part of before. You were like, okay. Get into whatever position mount, right? And you'll be, and then you'll just call out another position or submission. And you'll be like, get there as quick as you can. And some people would be like, oh, I gotta go here. Some people, they don't even know how to get there. They'll just sort of climb over and for which won't really work, but it's part of the, the drill, you know?

• 2:07:25Speaker 01

  It's like find the shortest path there.

• 2:07:27Jocko Willink?

  I was just gonna say.

• 2:07:27Speaker 03

  Exactly right. Find the shortest path, but.

• 2:07:30Speaker 01

  There's a test, there's a test to see who stumbles through that one and it could just, you know?

• 2:07:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:35Speaker 01

  Make the 15 moves that could have been two.

• 2:07:37Speaker 03

  But I felt it though, because when you were like, oh yeah, mount, you, we're in mount. And you said, go to the knee bar. And I was like, I, I know the drill, so I'm not just gonna just go to the knee bar. Like the way you kind of can't really do it. I gotta go to another step first. It's like, okay, I go half guard, then the knee bar from, you know, Dean's knee bar or whatever. And I remember you watching and being like, kind of looking as if.

• 2:08:00Jocko Willink?

  Just kind of a little bit disgusted.

• 2:08:01Speaker 03

  No, no, the opposite. It was kind of approved. And not to say that that was such a great performance of the drill. It was more like, this is how I felt. I don't know. I couldn't read his mind. I just read his look where it was like, the way I felt at that time was like, this is the purpose of this drill. Is to like, don't think of it in terms of like, oh, I know what an arm bar is. Let me just go there. It's more like figure out the quickest way. And you'll probably figure out that there's quicker ways than how you do it when you really roll. Or there's actually ways to get there, even though it doesn't seem right there available at the time. See what I'm saying? And then, so I started thinking back and not to say I did this all in one day or nothing like that. But then if you think back to like a lot of your stuff, like you'll do a darts choke, choke when they're passing your guard.

• 2:08:46Speaker 03

  And I'm like, uh, that's not usually where they teach the darts choke, is it? It's usually from a very specific, you know, number of positions. And then you, if you look like his match against, um, this was in 2009. Uh, it was, you, you went against Joel first and then Bill the Grill Cooper. I forget who, who you went with first. It was like one of the first.

• 2:09:04Speaker 01

  Tino Martinez.

• 2:09:05Speaker 03

  I think that was the day two.

• 2:09:06Speaker 01

  Darts choke, that guy. You know him?

• 2:09:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:09Speaker 01

  He's a good dude.

• 2:09:09Speaker 03

  But it was a random tournament in Del Mar.

• 2:09:12Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:09:12Speaker 03

  And that was the first time I think I seen you in real life and. I was watching you do stuff. I was like, wait, he's like doing a lot of creative stuff. Yeah, it's creative, but it's like you're violating a bunch of rules just so you can implement something that works. By the way, and then when it's a good demonstration, the best demonstration of that that I remember is you against Bill the girl. When you guys were both doing it.

• 2:09:34Jocko Willink?

  God.

• 2:09:35Speaker 01

  We we closed out several pro events where we were like in the finals against each other. And he's like, this is my little brother, you know, and we would just like, let's, let's put on a dope show. Yes, it's going to be a fixed match, but it's going to be so cool that people don't mind watching a fixed match.

• 2:09:52Speaker 03

  It was, yeah, it was crazy. It was really impressive.

• 2:09:54Jocko Willink?

  Just like, uh, it's like why I talk about like musicians and how a musician that's really like, uh, Jimmy Page, you know, he played like as a studio musician for, for decades. Like as a, as like a teenager, he was playing as a studio musician, like play these exact notes at this exact time. And he so got so disciplined and so good that when he got to Led Zeppelin, he's like, oh, watch this. I'm gonna play a note here with a freaking violin thing, whatever that thing is called. And I'm gonna start playing a guitar in a totally different way and it's gonna work and it's gonna sound awesome. That's to me, that's like Jeff Glover on the mats of justice.

• 2:10:28Speaker 01

  Damn, I got compared to Led Zeppelin.

• 2:10:30Jocko Willink?

  Hell, yeah, you did. Uh, right on, fellas. Appreciate you guys coming down. I'm looking forward to taking classes after, dude. Yeah, that's all I got. Yeah. Thanks, fellas.

• 2:10:41Speaker 01

  Thank you, boys.

• 2:10:41Jocko Willink?

  You, we out.

• 2:10:44Jocko Willink?

  And with that, Jeff Glover and Pete Legreek have left the building.

• 2:10:50Jocko Willink?

  Little jujitsu talk today.

• 2:10:53Jocko Willink?

  You know, for me, from my perspective, it's kind of interesting to be like last night, thinking I was gonna do this podcast, talking about jujitsu with Jeffy and Pete, and it was kind of, it's kind of, it's a lot different, right? A lot of times I'm reading from a book or I'm, you know, we're talking to someone that's been through some horrific things. And it's usually pretty heavy.

• 2:11:20Jocko Willink?

  Emotionally heavy. So it was kinda, I, I must say, it was kind of relaxing.

• 2:11:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, light hearted.

• 2:11:28Jocko Willink?

  To come in and just be like, oh, we're gonna talk about jujitsu with, with Jeff and Pete, who are both, you know, like, nice and chill. So, there you go, uh, jujitsu.

• 2:11:38Speaker 03

  Jujitsu. It was fun. So my, I came in this, the jujitsu scene in two thousand and five, and which was in kind of the beginning of the height of, of Jeff Glover. So I saw Bill the Grill, Jeff Glover, like, these guys or whatever. So it is interesting to hear, like, his version of that timeline. And so I was like, oh, that's when, that's when I came on the scene. Grappler's Quest, Best of the West, freaking, the, uh, world submission grappling championships. It was like, Grappler's Quest.

• 2:12:12Jocko Willink?

  You were a little behind when there used to be, god, there used to be some really interesting tournaments, good tournaments. But yeah, sounds like there's a, there's a series of tournaments that, the tournaments you're talking came after. There was like, what was that one, like, the Olympics of grappling or something like this? Grappling Games. So I think that one faded by the time, there was a place in LA called Neutral Grounds. That was old school back in the day. I mean, we're talking like there'd be fifty people there, in a cage. Like, where the grappling matches were in a cage.

• 2:12:49Jocko Willink?

  Dean Lister had a tournament or a match against a guy there, and Dean got him in some kind of hold, some kind of chokehold, but like, oh no, Rico Rodriguez got this guy. But the guy didn't tap. And he, like, when the ref stopped it or whatever, the dude, like, didn't get up for a while. Like, they were thinking this guy might not be alive. Yeah, there was some crazy stuff, but.

• 2:13:15Speaker 03

  A little bit rogue, back in those days.

• 2:13:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's crazy how, how different it is now.

• 2:13:21Jocko Willink?

  It is. The popularity of jujitsu is, is awesome to see. And jujitsu is fun.

• 2:13:27Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 2:13:28Jocko Willink?

  And that the way that Jeff Glover rolls makes it even more fun. Watching him roll, you get fun.

• 2:13:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, he he's like the ideal of um like exploratory jujitsu and then what you gain like when you or I mean him as the example. Like what he has gained from exploring jujitsu in that way so much is that's what makes it so like. You're not used to that kind of stuff and so it comes off as so amazing and it's it's available to most people like that, but it's hard to like get in that mindset. Cause he does it straight up during competitions.

• 2:14:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:03Speaker 03

  Like watch like Metamoris, I think it was like four, the secret match.

• 2:14:07Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:14:08Speaker 03

  So he's the announcer, by the way, and they're like a secret match and it's Barry Yoshida, who just was in the Hall of Fame of ADCC, by the way. Barry Yoshida versus somebody. It's a secret, right? It's like a surprise and they're like Jeff Glover, the announcer gets off, takes off his suit and goes rolls. And boom, exploratory jujitsu, donkey guard, all this unorthodox stuff, but it's like it's by design, you know? And it's interesting too, because they're like they live um kind of for lack of a better term, like a jujitsu nomad style, right? Where they go around, everyone knows them, they know everybody.

• 2:14:42Jocko Willink?

  Kung fu walking to earth.

• 2:14:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:14:46Jocko Willink?

  It's crazy that for like five years at Victory MMA and Fitness, look, we have Dean Lister teaching, like which is insane just to think you can learn all this stuff from Dean Lish. But for five years, we had Dean Lish, which is as good as it's gonna get and Jeff Glover, look at both here, it was crazy. It's like every day was just was crazy, was epic.

• 2:15:12Speaker 03

  One time I rode with Jeff and I've rolled him many, many times and so the thing I remember about or the thing that that makes this very memorable is this was the whole day I rode with him like a bunch of times. Where we're rolling, he's being all, he's keeping it playful or whatever and then he switched and kept it real. Cause if you don't know, there's two modes, keeping it playful and keeping it real. That's Henry Hittongracy made up those terms, by the way, but. He he switches over to keeping it real and busts out some wrestling on me.

• 2:15:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:42Speaker 03

  I and I don't mean on me because I'm so good and so that's why I'm not saying that. I'm saying because I outweighed him by a lot and he just put it on me. Another notable thing is earlier, okay, so I like Kimora especially on smaller guys.

• 2:15:57Speaker 03

  He saw the kimura coming, he gave me the kimura and he reached behind his back and just held his arms as if to be like, I'm giving you this kimura, but it's your job to finish it. Couldn't finish it. I was like, bro, see, that's the, and it's not like I'm smaller than him, where it's like I'm bigger, like the, the, the chance of me finishing it is going to be higher than, you know, maybe a smaller guy still does it. But that's that exploratory process that's going to allow him to understand all his available maneuver, maneuvers when your hand is already behind your back.

• 2:16:26Jocko Willink?

  He has that, we talked about it, but that level of confidence, like an insane level of confidence in jiu-jitsu. You know, when you watch Dean Lister with foot locks, he has that specifically with foot locks. Like he'll, there's been tournaments where Dean would like stick his feet out, like, go ahead, please try and foot lock me. But man, Glover has that from a positional attitude. Like he doesn't care what position someone gets, he's gonna, so, um, awesome stuff. Thanks for those guys for coming on. Uh, support the podcast. You want to support the podcast, you gotta support yourself. Hopefully you're gonna start training jiu-jitsu. We can't even start to, you can't even start to explain how much jiu-jitsu is gonna help you in your life.

• 2:17:05Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 2:17:06Jocko Willink?

  You gotta, you gotta, you gotta say, listen, I, you gotta have faith in what we're saying, right? Cause I can't explain it, Echo can't explain it. You gotta have a little bit of faith just to go try it. And my recommendation is you do jiu-jitsu until you submit someone.

• 2:17:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:22Jocko Willink?

  That's the, I made that, I did make that up. I'll take credit for it. You do jiu-jitsu until you submit someone. Once you submit someone, if you decide, oh, I don't like this, then you can move on. That's probably not gonna happen though. Cause once you submit somebody, you're like, it's like a drug.

• 2:17:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:36Jocko Willink?

  Right?

• 2:17:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:37Jocko Willink?

  And you know what else is like a drug, if you have the right attitude is getting submitted is like, damn, how'd that happen?

• 2:17:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:43Jocko Willink?

  How'd that happen? You know, it's, it can be a horrible thing. But, uh, start training jiu-jitsu. If you're gonna do jiu-jitsu, you're gonna need a fuel, that jiu-jitsu. Get yourself some Jaco Fuel, clean fuel, clean energy. Good for you. Making stuff that's literally good for you. Uh, go to jacofuel.com. You can get these drinks. God, they're good. You can get these drinks. We, if you tried the drinks like six months ago, the Jaco Go Drinks, you may not like the taste. You might've been like, eh.

• 2:18:14Jocko Willink?

  But we because of that, because that feedback, we reformulated the flavors. And now they freaking taste delicious. So that's that. Molk, you probably just are down with that one. If you're drinking milk, you're drinking milk. I mean, milk is a savior to your, to your body.

• 2:18:31Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:18:32Jocko Willink?

  It's a savior to your body. It's gonna, you, you get that milk hitter. It's also a mental savior. Cause you just got done eating a, eating a wagyu ribeye.

• 2:18:45Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:18:45Jocko Willink?

  You know what I'm saying? Like this is top of top dog.

• 2:18:49Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:18:49Jocko Willink?

  Right? You just get done eating a, just a beautiful ribeye, even though it was delicious. You still get done, you want a little something sweet.

• 2:18:57Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:18:58Jocko Willink?

  It's possible.

• 2:18:59Speaker 03

  It's possible.

• 2:19:00Jocko Willink?

  So that's why you got that milk train. Get on the milk. You're gonna be happy. So you get the, you get the drinks at Wawa. You get the protein, the ready to drink protein drinks at Wawa right now. We're making them as fast as we can. We're selling them way faster than we predicted. Uh, the, the ready to drink milk. So you can now go into Wawa. You can go into vitamin shop. You can just go, oh, cool. I want a drink right now.

• 2:19:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:25Jocko Willink?

  I need 30 grams of protein right now. I'm going catabolic. It's an emergency scenario. Boom. Ready to drink. We're making them as fast as we can and we'll, we'll keep making them. So Wawa Vitamin Shop, jockofuel.com. Come and get it. Also, if you're doing jujitsu, you're gonna need a jujitsu gi. Gi, no gi. You might need a rash guard. We got some no gi shorts coming. We got all kinds of stuff. That's at originusa.com. All the stuff's made in America. Hunt gear, done, out. Jeans.

• 2:19:59Jocko Willink?

  Boots. I mean, this is what you need to live. You need, you need a gi. You need jujitsu shorts and rash guard. You need jeans. You need a t-shirt and you need a hoodie. We got you covered.

• 2:20:11Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:20:11Jocko Willink?

  You need boots. We got you covered. Originusa.com. And this stuff is made in America, which is the critical, the critical part of this, because there's companies out there right now that are gonna try to sell you something. They got a brand, right?

• 2:20:25Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:20:26Jocko Willink?

  They got a brand. Making a brand. Oh, our brand is whatever. And what they do is they come up with some ideas and they design it. And there's four people working there, seven people working there. And you know what? They, they design it. And then they order it from China and then over in a sweatshop, some slave labor makes it, sends it to here. They sell it and they keep that money and they go, cool, we made money. Let's do it again. That's not what we're doing. We're making it in America. So we do design it, but then we bring the designs to the factory, our factories here in Maine and North Carolina, and we make it. Americans make this stuff. And you'd think, oh, it must

• 2:21:10Jocko Willink?

  be seven times more expensive than the slave labor. No, it's not. It's not. And you're, you're investing in America. So, originusa.com, go get some. Get, get whatever you need.

• 2:21:23Speaker 03

  Yep, it's true. Also, Jaco's store is called Jaco's store, where you can get Discipline Equals Freedom stuff, t-shirts and hats and hoodies, merch, if you will, a little bit better quality than just random merch, by the way. Also, we got the shirt locker, which is a new shirt, new shirt designed every month. They're good, they're creative, they're fun, you know, some controversial.

• 2:21:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, there's been some controversial ones.

• 2:21:46Speaker 03

  Controversy.

• 2:21:47Jocko Willink?

  But the ones I come up with seem to be more controversial in a way.

• 2:21:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21:51Jocko Willink?

  My specific designs.

• 2:21:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, you're controversially minded person from time to time. We'll say that. But, you know, overall, great, great feedback. Check that out. Go to JacoStore.com. You can look at everything. If you like something, amen, get something.

• 2:22:04Jocko Willink?

  Uh, subscribe to the podcast. You already know that. Don't forget about Unraveling. Don't forget about the Warrior Kid Podcast. I know I owe some. I'm sorry. Working on that latest Warrior Kid book, we'll get it to you. JacoUnderground.com, we have that in case we get banned for whatever reason. Who knows? Maybe they don't like, uh, people from Chicago named Pete the Greek and they're like, hey, we're getting rid of this guy. So, eight dollars and eighteen cents a month. If you want to get on board with that, we appreciate it. If you can't afford it, no big deal. Email [email protected]. We got a YouTube channel. Origin USA has a YouTube channel. We got Psychological Warfare. We got FlipsideCanvas.com, Dakota Myers' gig. We got a bunch of books. Only Cry for

• 2:22:49Jocko Willink?

  the Living by Holly McKay. All the books I've written. Final Spin, Leadership Strategy and Tactics Field Manual, The Kids Book. Get the, get the Kids, you know, the Kids books. Please, please do that. Mikey and the Dragons, the Way of the Warrior Kid Series.

• 2:23:06Jocko Willink?

  I have a company called Echelon Front. It's a leadership consultancy. We solve problems through leadership. So if you want to get involved in that, echelonfront.com. We have live events. They sell out. So if you want to come, go check out events there. Echelonfront.com Or if you need long-term help, go there, put it in the request. And if you want to help service members actively retire, you want to help their families, you want to help the Gold Star families, check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. She's got a charity organization. If you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to AmericasMightyWarriors.org. If you want to help vets by getting them out into the wilderness so they can rediscover their soul,

• 2:23:50Jocko Willink?

  go to HeroesAndHorses.org. And once again, if you want to follow Jeff and Pete, Pete is on Instagram, @PeteTheGreek, wristlocktheworld. He's also at wristlocktheworld.com. Jeff is on Instagram, @JeffGloverBJJ. And listen, both these guys have a bunch of instructional videos on BJJFanatics.com. And I know the guys from BJJFanatics.com, Bernardo and Michael, the guys that run it, the guys that own it. It's, they're doing a great job of putting out great content. So check out videos if you want to check these guys out, if you want to learn from them.

• 2:24:35Jocko Willink?

  If you want to learn from anybody, you can go to BJJFanatics.com and you're probably going to find that champion that you want to learn from on there. So go check that out. If you want to learn the basics of jiu-jitsu, there's basic videos on there. So check that out. As for us, and by us, I mean Echo, Charles, and myself, we're also on the interwebs. We're on Twitter. I've been getting a little bit back into Twitter since it seems like it might be picked up by Elon Musk, who may or may probably going to do a better job of not censoring people, which makes you kind of question the whole gig. So Twitter, the Gram, Facebook, we're on there. Echo's at EchoCharles. I'm at JacoWillink.

• 2:25:19Jocko Willink?

  Of course, you got to watch out for that algorithm because it will catch you. And the reason I know it'll catch you is because I cheat.

• 2:25:29Jocko Willink?

  When I go in my ice bath. Kind of cheat when I go in my ice bath. I will look at the Instagram or some some social media when I'm in there and time just goes by. You're like, oh, it's been six minutes. How did that happen? Oh, because my brain was captured.

• 2:25:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Sedated.

• 2:25:45Jocko Willink?

  So that's a good rule of thumb. You can only look at social media when you're in some uncomfortable scenario. But get into a wall squat. And as long as you can hold it, you can scroll.

• 2:25:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:25:58Jocko Willink?

  You know, you get seven minutes. Cool. You know, you know what I'm saying?

• 2:26:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:01Jocko Willink?

  Go. Could you hang off a pull up bar? No, because you'd need your hand to scroll. Maybe you could. What others? What's another crappy position to get an ice bath for sure?

• 2:26:11Speaker 03

  Talking to you.

• 2:26:12Jocko Willink?

  Ice bath. Yeah, you could sit there and have to talk to me. You a little frustrated today? What was the frustration about?

• 2:26:18Speaker 03

  I wasn't frustrated today.

• 2:26:19Jocko Willink?

  No, no.

• 2:26:20Speaker 03

  It was yesterday.

• 2:26:21Jocko Willink?

  No, you were roid raging.

• 2:26:22Speaker 03

  I wasn't roid raging today. That was yesterday. Hawaiian. Because you because you took it upon yourself to interrupt me in the morning, by the way.

• 2:26:31Speaker 03

  In the middle of my workout with some nonsense.

• 2:26:34Jocko Willink?

  Do you but you responded during a workout?

• 2:26:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's.

• 2:26:37Jocko Willink?

  Is that a good move, you think?

• 2:26:38Speaker 03

  No, no, I know now. Yeah, no, bad move, terrible.

• 2:26:42Jocko Willink?

  What was what was the trigger statement that I made?

• 2:26:45Speaker 03

  I don't know. I'd have to go through the thread, but because there was a few.

• 2:26:51Jocko Willink?

  Multiple.

• 2:26:52Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:26:53Jocko Willink?

  So I made multiple comments.

• 2:26:55Speaker 03

  It's true. True story.

• 2:26:57Jocko Willink?

  Then you have to come here and sit here and talk to me for a long period of time.

• 2:27:01Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:27:01Jocko Willink?

  It's.

• 2:27:01Speaker 03

  So I should have been scrolling social media during that set.

• 2:27:05Jocko Willink?

  It's mental anguish.

• 2:27:06Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:27:09Jocko Willink?

  Check. All right. Well, watch out for that algorithm unless I'm, you know, verbally abusing you, then it could be a nice little escape. See, that's what you need. You need a little escape from my from my abusive personality, you know, apparently.

• 2:27:22Speaker 03

  The world makes sense.

• 2:27:24Jocko Willink?

  You going to train after this?

• 2:27:25Speaker 03

  Um, I don't know. Fifty fifty. I have another engagement that I.

• 2:27:29Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 2:27:30Speaker 03

  I have.

• 2:27:31Jocko Willink?

  You knew we were doing this today.

• 2:27:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, I have my clothes, everything.

• 2:27:33Jocko Willink?

  Okay. All right. Okay. Well, hey, that's on, you know, that's on the world, you know? Guess it's not your fault.

• 2:27:40Speaker 03

  See your whole tone right now.

• 2:27:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:42Speaker 03

  See, that's what that's it. This is part of what I'm talking about. It's part of it. It's part of it. Yeah, it is. Yes.

• 2:27:47Jocko Willink?

  Check. All right. Well, once again.

• 2:27:51Jocko Willink?

  Thanks to Jeff and Pete for coming down. Thanks for what you guys have done for Jiu Jitsu. Always stoked to have you all around and thanks for helping so many people out by giving them the gift, and it is a gift of Jiu Jitsu. So, thanks fellows. And I also want to thank our service members from the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard. We get to train Jiu Jitsu because you all protect us. And by the way, all of you in the service, if you get a chance, and actually you should make a chance, go find a way to train Jiu Jitsu. It's going to help you in everything that you do. Same goes for the rest of our police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers,

• 2:28:35Jocko Willink?

  correctional officers, Border Patrol, Secret Service, all first responders. Thanks for protecting us and keeping us safe so that we can live our lives. And same thing, guess what? Please, please go out and start training Jiu Jitsu if you don't already. It can save your life. And everyone else out there, guess what I'm gonna say? The same thing. If you're training Jiu Jitsu right now, cool, keep training. And if you're not, go find a Jiu Jitsu Academy and go train Jiu Jitsu. And until next time, this is Echo and Jaco, out.