When In A Relationship Can You Double Dip Without Asking?

Do you need to ask your partner if you can double dip? How guilty should you feel about not eating leftovers? We’re taking your calls and helping you settle your food disputes!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dan Pashman?

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• 0:42Dan Pashman?

  There are so many easy weeknight recipes using Lando Lake's cheese and butter that bring delicious restaurant taste right to your table. From chicken parm to weeknight shrimp pad thai, Lando Lake's has plenty of quick dishes that'll have the whole dinner table talking. Visit landolakes.com/reцепes/collection for easy weeknight dinners.

• 1:12Dan Pashman?

  I sprinkle flaky salt on every scoop of ice cream that I ever have.

• 1:16Speaker 01

  Now just pour on some melted salted butter on top of that ice cream.

• 1:21Dan Pashman?

  That could be good. And then it'll harden, it'll be like magic shell, but butter.

• 1:24Speaker 01

  Dominic Ansel does that now. I don't know if you've seen that. He takes soft serve and dips it into melted, cultured, French salted butter.

• 1:32Dan Pashman?

  Is it good?

• 1:33Speaker 01

  I haven't had it. I'm a 40-year-old man with cholesterol issues. That's not something I'm allowed to have.

• 1:42Dan Pashman?

  This is The Sporkful. It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people. And before we get started, I have some huge news, everyone. I have done a few food tours in Italy in recent years. Got another one coming up this fall. It's already sold out. But in 2027, the folks at Culinary Backstreets and I are teaming up for a new one. Mexico City. I cannot wait for this. We're gonna go to the homes of master mole makers, go on a taco Pasta crawl and much, much more. Registrations are opening up soon, so if you want first dibs, go to culinarybackstreets.com/sporful and click on inquire now. That way you'll be the first to get an email when the trip opens up. Again, that's culinarybackstreets.com/sporful.

• 2:27Dan Pashman?

  All right, here we go. This week, we are taking your calls and settling your food disputes. Yes, you know, look, food can bring us together, but it can also tear us apart. Today, we'll hear from some of you who are embroiled in longstanding food feuds to see if we can help you find common ground. Or maybe we'll just declare one person to be totally wrong. We'll see how it plays out. But I can't do this kind of big work all by myself, so I invited two esteemed guests to join me. First up, you might know her as Hot Thai Kitchen on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. She's also a cookbook author. And in fact, the 10th anniversary edition of her first cookbook, Hot Thai Kitchen, just came out, which is quite a statement about this cookbook. Because very few cookbooks get a next edition. Joining me from Vancouver, it's Pai Lin Chong Chit Nong. Hi Pai.

• 3:11Speaker 02

  Hi Dan, hi Ham.

• 3:13Dan Pashman?

  Hi Pai. And welcome to Ham here in our studios in New York. He's a chef and recipe developer. You've seen him cooking on YouTube and Instagram with his wife, Sola Elweli. They're the dynamic duo we collab with for our Deep Dish series. He's also a co-founder of the Brooklyn restaurant Strange Delight and the author of the recent cookbook, Hello, Home Cooking. Ham Elweli, hey, Ham. Hey, how's it going? It's going well. I'm so excited to have both of you here. Before we get to the calls, let's just take a minute and check in, catch up. Ham, you've been here before. Pai, welcome to your first appearance on the Sporkful. Let's start with you, Pai. As I said, you just released the 10th anniversary edition of Hot Thai Kitchen. What were the main updates from the original version?

• 3:51Speaker 02

  I've updated some techniques. And in addition to that, we also added a new chapter with new recipes. And so the original set of recipes were sort of hardcore, traditional Thai dishes. But in the new 10th anniversary chapter, I wanted to add things people have never seen before. So these are, we call it house specials. They're basically things that are unique to my childhood growing up in southern Thailand that you won't find in restaurants. And also things that I just created for the YouTube channel. Because I want people to know that like you don't have to stick to the traditional dishes. Like, once you understand Thai ingredients, Thai cooking techniques, you can, in fact, create new things. And there's nothing wrong with that. And I do that all the time. And you should feel free to do the same.

• 4:35Dan Pashman?

  So what's one good example of one of those new takes that is not traditional?

• 4:41Speaker 02

  So there's a recipe in there called hot Thai chicken. And it came about because oftentimes when I film my video, I will slip and say, welcome to hot Thai chicken. Instead of hot Thai kitchen. And this happens so many, not to just me. I've been on live television where the host introduces me as pie from hot Thai chicken. I don't know what it is. And I thought, you know what? This needs to be a dish. And so I made one and it's a fried chicken tossed in a sweet chili lime sauce. And it's just out of this world.

• 5:10Dan Pashman?

  That sounds so good. I'm getting hungry now. Now, I know you started hot Thai kitchen because you felt that Americans and Canadians misunderstood Thai food. And this is interesting to me because I find your work very accessible. As someone who did not grow up cooking Thai food, what kind of response have you gotten to your work from Thai people?

• 5:26Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh, that was the least expected part of what I did because I set out to teach non-Tai's how to cook Thai food. But I have been hearing from so many Thai people born and raised overseas that said, I really regret not learning Thai food from my parents when they were around. And now they're not around. I miss their food and I don't know how to recreate their dishes until I found yours. And then your food tastes just like my mom's. And you know, like, that's the thing that like gives me goosebumps just thinking about it. That's just like one of the biggest honors of my career.

• 6:07Dan Pashman?

  Ham, let's turn to you. You just published your debut cookbook, Hello, Home Cooking. In the intro, you talk about going from someone who saw yourself exclusively as a fine dining chef. And then you transitioned to someone who would write a cookbook called Hello, Home Cooking. What led you to make that shift?

• 6:23Speaker 01

  When, when you're working in fine dining restaurants, it's, it's all consuming. It takes over your life. You're there most of the day. Everything else kind of melts away. And as a result, since you're cooking so much, you don't really cook that much at home. You're getting takeout. And if you are cooking at home, it's usually something simple. And then the pandemic hit and then you were forced to stay at home. Because all the restaurants were closed and there's only so much restaurant cooking you can do at home. So at first, Sol and I were cooking these really fun elaborate meals of like duck and that we were kind of dry aging out of a rig that we made in our fridge and like basting asparagus and like pounds of butter, like pretty much cooking like you would in a fancy restaurant.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  And then you sort of feel a little sick if you're eating like that.

• 7:10Dan Pashman?

  Right. It's one thing to be cooking like that. You can't always be eating like that.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  You can't always be eating like that. So I started to explore. I wanted to think about, okay, what are some of the things that I grew up eating? And I had this notebook that my mom left me of all her favorite recipes.

• 7:24Dan Pashman?

  You write so beautifully in the book that your mom died somewhat suddenly.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:28Dan Pashman?

  When you were, what, 19?

• 7:29Speaker 01

  I was 19. I grew up in Doha, Qatar, and I moved here when I was 19. So my mom came to visit me that first summer. She was really out of breath when she arrived at the door. She was coughing a lot. And so I took her to the emergency room. She got admitted shortly after and then died a few weeks later. So it was very, it was very sudden. It kind of caught all of us by surprise. And since it happened so fast, I never got a chance to go back to Doha. My dad and sister really didn't take that much time to pack a lot of our belongings. So like a lot of those childhood memories and things that I grew up around are gone. But there was one thing I knew I wanted, which was my mom's Madonna notebook. It's a blue lined notebook. It has Madonna on the cover. Madonna, the singer, not the religious figure.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  She's in red lingerie, bleach blonde, holding a microphone. And it was used so much that the spine is held with like different layers of electrical tape. And so I knew I wanted that. So that was the one thing I asked for. And I never cooked out of it because it was just, I was still going through the grieving process. Having it in my possession was enough, was soothing enough. So I just brought it with me from apartment to apartment until the pandemic. And that was the first time I cooked out of it. And then it reawakened the power that home cooking can have for comfort. It just brought a feeling of home that I didn't know I could have again.

• 8:52Dan Pashman?

  And so some of those recipes from your mom's book ended up in the cookbook. Well, when you first finally got to the point during COVID, when you're gonna take that cookbook out of where you'd been storing it and open it up, what was the first thing you cooked?

• 9:03Speaker 01

  Cheese empanadas. And those empanadas are in the book as well because it's there's something about those. So when, when, when I got home from school and I knew there was a bowl of steaming hot empanadas on the counter, I knew it meant that my mom was feeling really homesick. Biting into that, it like brought me exactly back to that. Like I can picture the kitchen wooden table. Like we didn't have tablecloths. Instead, my mom would line the table with yesterday's newspaper. And then at the end of the meal, you kind of fold it up and then throw it out and then. And so I can picture, I can picture the newspaper. I can picture the bowl of empanadas in the middle. I can picture the bite and like the, the, the way of the cheese like squirting into my mouth, the steam, the crunch, like it brought me back.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  And then that, that feeling is just pure comfort.

• 9:52Dan Pashman?

  I want to ask each of you about one detail from your cookbooks that really caught my eye. Pi, you talk about utensils in the first chapter of the book and a specific way that Thai people eat with different utensils. Can you explain the Thai approach?

• 10:04Speaker 02

  So the way you eat a Thai meal properly is you eat with a fork and a spoon. Okay, not a fork and a knife, not just a fork, a fork and a spoon.

• 10:14Dan Pashman?

  And not chopsticks usually?

• 10:17Speaker 02

  Usually chopsticks you can, you're allowed to use if you're having noodles.

• 10:21Dan Pashman?

  Only noodles though.

• 10:22Speaker 02

  Yes, but if you've ever tried to eat rice with curry with a chopstick, good luck with that.

• 10:27Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 10:28Speaker 02

  You know? Now, the thing is, what people get wrong is they will put the fork on their dominant hand. Okay, but no, the spoon is in your dominant hand. The spoon scoops the food. The spoon goes into your mouth. The fork is there to help push things onto the spoon and the fork is the support. That's how you do it, but most of of people who sort of grew up with Western way of eating, their automatic sort of instinct is to use the fork as the main thing. But our food is rice based, rice, like little grains that's, you know, run everywhere.

• 11:05Dan Pashman?

  So, so when we have rice at home, my wife insists on using a fork. My daughters and I all use spoons, even if it's not broth-y. And it's like the gap between the tines of a fork is the exact size of a grain of rice.

• 11:17Speaker 02

  It makes no sense. I don't understand.

• 11:20Dan Pashman?

  If someone was like, how can we design the least functional utensil for eating rice? It would be a fork.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  What I don't understand is when you're looking at a pile of rice, you're like, okay, we've got small things, small little grains. You look at your utensil drawer and you go, yes, the fork is what we're gonna use to eat that. It's just like, I don't understand.

• 11:40Dan Pashman?

  It would be like eating soup with a slotted spoon. Like that's really the, like, it makes no sense. So, thank you, Pi, for highlighting this issue because even beyond Thai food, I just feel like in Western culture, forks are overutilized and spoons are underutilized.

• 11:56Speaker 02

  Yes, thank you. I feel supported.

• 12:00Dan Pashman?

  Um, Ham, you write about the different temperatures, like if you're using a stainless steel pan, you say, almost never start with a cold stainless steel pan. Now, a couple of years back, we had another chef on the show who I shall not name. My mother-in-law had a question. She said, why do I need to heat the pan before I throw onions into the pan? Can I just put the onions and the oil in the pan and then turn the flame on? And that chef said, yeah, sure, it doesn't matter. But it sounds like you may disagree.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  I disagree and so does science. Science disagrees.

• 12:28Dan Pashman?

  All right, hit me with the science.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  So stainless steel is very, very sticky when, when you heat it up from cold. So if you ever have trouble when you put something in a pan and then you get that, that layer of food that gets stuck to it, you gotta scrape it off. And it's like, it, it doesn't really want, it doesn't really work. So people gravitate towards non-sticks because they think that they can use less fat, that their food won't stick, that it has a much wider range of. Acceptable heat without it sticking.

• 13:01Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  But stainless steel, you just need to preheat it so you can get a nice barrier between your food and the metal. So you need to preheat that pan in order to get the most out of it.

• 13:12Dan Pashman?

  Does that mean preheating the oil in it also or preheating it dry?

• 13:14Speaker 01

  The pan, you can preheat the pan dry. The most important thing is you need to preheat your pan dry. This also goes for carbon steels and cast irons.

• 13:22Dan Pashman?

  And that will prevent the food from sticking.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  From sticking. And then you can add your fat.

• 13:26Dan Pashman?

  What's going on there? Can you give me the short, uh, layman's scientific explanation of what's happening there?

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Well, it has to do with how things bond. So you want to be, when you have that pan preheated and then you add your food to it, that moisture immediately starts to steam and it's that steam that creates that little.

• 13:45Dan Pashman?

  From the food creates steam that prevents sticking.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  Exactly. That gives you a little bit of floatage, I believe, is the scientific term.

• 13:52Dan Pashman?

  All right.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  Floatage between your food and your pan.

• 13:57Dan Pashman?

  Before we wrap up the cookbook discussion section, I want to mention that we're giving away copies of each of your cookbooks. All folks have to do to win is to be on our mailing list by May 15th. If you're already on the list, you're automatically entered into this and all of our giveaways. So you should probably be on the list. Sign up now at sporkful.com/newsletter, open to US addresses only. All right, it's time to get to the heart of today's show. I think you're both well qualified to help our listeners settle their most stubborn food disputes. In just a bit, we're going to open the phone lines and take some live calls. But first, let's start with a voice memo.

• 14:30Speaker 03

  Hi Darren, this is Cheryl in Vancouver and I have a food take that I wanted to share with you. I have a particular way of eating hot dogs that aligns with my general eating philosophy of making sure the last bite is the best bite. So I start eating a hot dog from one end, either end. Once I'm about halfway through, I turn it around and eat it from the butt end, as my friend would call it. That leaves the last bite of hot dog as a middle bite, which is far superior to either of the ends. If you haven't tried eating a hot dog this way before, I highly recommend it. I'd also love to know what you think of my general eating philosophy. Make the last bite the best bite. Cheers.

• 15:10Dan Pashman?

  Now, there's a lot to unpack here. Let's start with the small question. Pi, you first. What do you think of this idea of eating a hot dog this way?

• 15:18Speaker 02

  Well, first of all, I find it interesting that the hot dog has a butt end. Because I thought the two sides.

• 15:24Dan Pashman?

  Right. They could both be heads, right?

• 15:27Speaker 02

  But yes, exactly.

• 15:29Dan Pashman?

  What do you think, Pi, about the specific hot dog eating technique?

• 15:32Speaker 02

  I wouldn't do that because I hate messy food. And I think if you turn it around and now like you've got exposed interior and things are slippery and saucy and the possibility of things dripping is higher. So there's a reason why you keep sort of the drier butt end and you kind of hold on to it. So that as you're eating, you're like, your mouth pressure is pushing slightly the hot dog backwards, right?

• 15:59Dan Pashman?

  Oh, okay.

• 16:00Speaker 02

  So if you like, kind of keep the end dry and hold on to it, you you prevent things from slipping and sliding. I hate it when like you eat a burger, for example, and you know, things just slide out towards the end.

• 16:13Dan Pashman?

  That's an engineering flaw, for sure.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  I 100% agree with Pi. Turning it around, your potential danger of slippage is very high.

• 16:22Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  High, high danger.

• 16:24Dan Pashman?

  Especially when you get down to the last couple of bites, then it's open, it's open hot dog on both ends. There's nothing to contain the condiments.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  And if you're like, if you're chili dogging, that chili is ending up all, it's ending up down your wrist. It's like, it's a disaster.

• 16:37Dan Pashman?

  But let's give Cheryl the benefit of the doubt, she's not chili dogging, but still. Pi, what's your feeling about this broader idea of saving the best bite for last?

• 16:46Speaker 02

  I am 100% with her on this. I do the same thing. Like, if a food has different components, I'll make sure that the last bite has the perfect distribution of everything.

• 16:56Dan Pashman?

  This is an issue that, you know, has been debated down through the ages. I'm pretty sure Aristotle wrote about the question of when in the meal you want to have the best bite. So Pi, you are on team last bite, best bite.

• 17:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 17:08Dan Pashman?

  And you'll like have to parcel out the different components throughout the meal in order to make sure you end with the right ratios.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, you gotta set the best bits aside for the perfect last bite. So like, for example, you don't always Get enough sauce, right, for a dish. So you don't eat it all and then leave like a few bites of dry rice at the end. Right? So you gotta make sure there's enough sauce left so that your last bites of rice isn't dry.

• 17:34Dan Pashman?

  Okay, Pi, you say best bite, last bite. What's your take, Ham, on this larger question?

• 17:40Speaker 01

  There, I disagree.

• 17:42Dan Pashman?

  Okay.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  So I think for me, enjoyment of eating a meal is almost on a bell curve. At the end, I'm like a little bit, I'm starting to get full, so my enjoyment of the food is gonna go down. I like to explore a little bit. So the first few bites is me exploring, tasting a lot of the things. And then I'm like, I'm tasting to determine what the perfect bite is. And then in the middle, once I've discovered it, I'm just maximizing my favorite bites. So it's like, okay, I know what I'm getting myself into. I'm still hungry, so let me, let me construct a few perfect bites. And then as I'm full and starting to get satisfied, I'm coming down at the other end. So whatever's left, I can finish it up. It's okay, because I've had a bunch of favorite bites.

• 18:27Dan Pashman?

  That's a great strategy, Ham. I'm, I'm pretty much with you. I, I would say I would usually want the best bite to be like a third of the way through the meal.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, closer to the beginning than the end.

• 18:36Dan Pashman?

  Right, right, right.

• 18:39Dan Pashman?

  We're gonna take a short break. When we come back, we'll take a call from a couple with a disagreement about double dipping. Pi and Ham, will you stick around?

• 18:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 18:45Speaker 01

  Well, we're already here, we have to.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  Can we say no?

• 18:50Dan Pashman?

  No, the door is actually locked.

• 18:54Speaker 02

  I've had enough of this.

• 19:00Speaker 04

  Sate, you stay, cuz it's time for some ads.

• 19:06Dan Pashman?

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• 19:51Dan Pashman?

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• 20:34Dan Pashman?

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• 21:18Dan Pashman?

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• 21:48Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back to The Sporkful. I'm Dan Pashman. Last week on the show, I talked with Eva Longoria. She's hosting a new CNN show called Searching for France, where she travels the country eating incredible French food. As I learned when I talked with her, Eva has always loved being in the kitchen, even back when she was a teenager, secretly trying to save up money for a quinceañera.

• 22:06Speaker 05

  So I went into Wendy's and got a job and didn't tell my parents. I snuck in.

• 22:15Dan Pashman?

  That you had a job?

• 22:15Speaker 05

  That I got a job because I was like, I'm going to pay for it myself. And so I remember applying and I was like going after school somewhere. And my mom would smell like I smelled like french fries.

• 22:28Dan Pashman?

  What happens when her mom found her out? You'll have to listen to here. And you'll also hear how after becoming a TV star, a film director, and so much more, Eva has also become a massive food nerd. She couldn't stop dropping knowledge that our whole conversation, everything from how jalapenos got their name to why France owes its bread baking culture to the French Revolution. She is hardcore about this stuff. It was a great conversation. It's up now. Check it out. One more quick note. We have a special segment sponsored by Bonnie Plants at the end of this episode. So make sure you stick around till then to get some really helpful, really great pro tips for your vegetable garden. All right, I'm joined once again now by Ham Elweli, whose new book is Hello, Home Cooking, and Pai Chong Chit Nhan, author of Hot Thai Kitchen. Hello. Hey, great to be back. Hi.

• 23:12Dan Pashman?

  Okay, we have a couple on the line right now who are coming to us with a food dispute. Let's see if we can help them out. Hi, who's this?

• 23:18Speaker 06

  Hi, my name is Rena. We're in Cincinnati and I'm here with my fiance, Cole.

• 23:22Dan Pashman?

  Hello Rena and Cole. Say hi to my friends, Ham and Pai.

• 23:25Speaker 06

  Hello. So excited to be here.

• 23:27Dan Pashman?

  Hey, how's it going? All right, Rena, you wrote in, what is the issue?

• 23:31Speaker 06

  Yes, so we have a food dispute over double dipping etiquette. When we are on a date night, just the two of us, do you need to ask permission to double dip each time? Or once double dipping rules have been established in a relationship, is there blanket approval to double dip from there on out?

• 23:50Dan Pashman?

  And what's your opinion, Rena?

• 23:51Speaker 06

  I'm blanket approval. I think it's silly. We share germs, we kiss, like, he's okay with double dipping. Why do I have to ask every time?

• 24:02Dan Pashman?

  And Cole, what's your take?

• 24:03Speaker 07

  I would summarize my position on this is it's nice to be asked. And the incident that sort of precipitated this was early in our relationship and we were still, you know, maybe a year or two in when we were figuring things out. So at that point, it would have been nice to be asked.

• 24:16Dan Pashman?

  I see. Now, just so I'm clear, the dispute is it's not whether in a single meal, Cole, you're saying that a person should ask at the beginning of each meal? And then it's a debater of whether it's a blanket approval for that meal? Or is it a debate like a blanket approval for the rest of your lives together?

• 24:35Speaker 07

  I think there's a certain point where I think it's accepted. But early on, in like that one to two year range, I think that it's nice to ask each meal. Cause there's different settings involved, right? It's a different restaurant, you're eating different foods. I think asking is nice.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  So what constitutes the early relationship? So at what point would you feel like blanket approval is acceptable?

• 24:59Speaker 07

  I don't know. I mean, I think at a certain point, you just sort of know, right? After four or five times when the, you know, when it seems like the pleasantry is done with, I would say that's fair. But this was still when I was expecting to be asked, oh, hey, are we double dipping? And that was kind of what caught me off guard.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  So where are you at now? What is the double dipping status now?

• 25:20Speaker 06

  We use it to rile each other up. Like it's like, oh, you know?

• 25:27Speaker 07

  Yeah, now it's a cudgel.

• 25:28Speaker 06

  If I don't, yeah, if I don't ask, generally Cole will let it slide, but not always. And then sometimes if I wanna poke the bear, I'll make direct eye contact and ask.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  And do you feel like double dipping is equal for all foods? Or do certain foods require a revisit to the double dipping rules?

• 25:49Speaker 07

  Not different foods. I think what's important to me is like the environment, right? Like it's different to me if we're at home in our sweats, watching a show, versus if we're out having a nice meal where like, you know, I might appreciate engaging in this sort of pleasantry as of dining out a little more.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting. So it's less about germs for you and more about etiquette?

• 26:09Speaker 07

  Yes, and being asked and saying, yes, of course you can double dip. That's a, that's a nice moment in our night out. It shows our intimacy. And I was robbed of that when Rena just started double dipping without asking. It's really my point.

• 26:21Speaker 06

  No, I thought we, it's a level of intimacy to not ask. Like, we have this understanding.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  Is there a scenario where you would say no?

• 26:28Speaker 07

  No, a, a, and that's, and that's a great point. There is literally no scenario. It's literally just asking. It's literally just asking.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  So where, where this bothers me is you guys are in a new relationship, right? Like, right now, it's all fun and games. Down the line...

• 26:45Speaker 07

  Sorry, just to interrupt, how long have you guys been together now?

• 26:48Speaker 06

  It'll be seven years in October.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  Right, but they're not married and they don't have kids, presumably.

• 26:53Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 26:53Speaker 02

  And I think this is the sort of thing that if you don't sort out, 10 years from now, it'll stop being fun and games. And this is turning into something that really bothers you. Okay, so, so, so I think you've got to figure out, like, proper rules. Like, for the rest of our lives, you need to ask every time or not. Because when you've got toddlers and they're screaming, your patience is going to be very, very thin. And when she double dips without asking, that's when you snap. And so we've got to establish the rules. And it's not, it can't be context dependent. It can't be like, in restaurants, you have to ask. At home, you don't have, because that's, those gray areas is what's going to get you.

• 27:37Speaker 07

  That's interesting. Ham, what are your final thoughts on this?

• 27:40Speaker 01

  I, I was surprised to see you describe it as, like, intimate to ask to double dip in, in a restaurant setting, because I, I gotta agree with Rena there. I think it, it's more intimate to kind of just get in there. If it was just based on germs, I would say, you're out of your mind. Because, because you guys, you guys, you guys are going to be making out a lot. But etiquette and wanting it to, if it makes the restaurant experience feel more special, or I can get that.

• 28:11Dan Pashman?

  Oh honey, we're going out tonight, but are we going out to a no double dipping level restaurant?

• 28:16Speaker 01

  It's like, they've got tablecloths, they've got candles, they've got duck on the menu. So that means, this is, this is, you're asking for double dipping country. But if it's about building the environment and the atmosphere and it makes the night feel more special, and then I think maybe you have like,

• 28:35Dan Pashman?

  It's got a little more validity to it.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  It has a little bit more validity to it.

• 28:37Dan Pashman?

  Um, I guess what I would say here is, like, you're saying Cole that you're always gonna say yes. It does feel like a somewhat perfunctory gesture. I don't really see the point. I think that you should really think about how important this is to you. That being said, if you decide that it's really, really important to you, then Rena, you know, I think, I hear what Pi is saying, like, you don't want this to be up for debate forever. You don't want it to become a sore spot for years to come. I would propose the following rule. If the restaurant has cloth napkins, then you ask, and if it is paper napkins, then you don't have to ask. That being said, I would encourage you just to move past this and give blanket approval. But if it's that important to you, you can go with my cloth versus paper napkin rule.

• 29:21Dan Pashman?

  I think that's, that's worth discussion.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  Yes, I think that's a good call.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  Or on the way over to the restaurant, just a quick nudge, be like, yo, we double dipping tonight?

• 29:32Dan Pashman?

  And imagine Cole being like, we sure are.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  We sure are.

• 29:34Dan Pashman?

  And they clasp their hands together and walk in so romantically.

• 29:37Speaker 02

  I'm telling you guys, that will only work for the first five years, okay?

• 29:43Speaker 02

  When the kids arrive, that is not gonna fly. Yo, we double dipping tonight? I don't think so.

• 29:53Dan Pashman?

  All right, well, Cole and Rena in Cincinnati, good luck with your next date night, regardless of what kind of napkins they have.

• 29:59Speaker 07

  Thank you so much.

• 30:00Dan Pashman?

  Thank you very much.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  Good luck.

• 30:04Dan Pashman?

  All right, Hammond, we're gonna keep moving here. We got another voice memo. Let's hear it.

• 30:08Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Rebecca from South Jersey. And my food-related conflict with a loved one is what constitutes a Caesar salad. My husband and I have very differing opinions about what a Caesar salad really is. My personal opinion is that a Caesar salad needs to have specific ingredients in order to be considered a Caesar salad. It should probably have some type of romaine lettuce, some version of a Caesar dressing, croutons, and cheese. He seems to think that a Caesar salad can be anything, as long as it has a Caesar dressing. And this all started a couple of years ago when we went to one of our favorite restaurants. And I ordered a vegan Caesar salad. We are both vegan. And I received what was basically a garden salad with croutons. And he seemed to think that it was perfectly acceptable for them to advertise this salad

• 30:53Speaker 08

  as a vegan Caesar salad, even though there was essentially no component of a Caesar salad, with the exception of the romaine lettuce and the croutons.

• 31:01Dan Pashman?

  Pie, where do you stand?

• 31:02Speaker 02

  You gotta have the everything. I'm with her on this. You gotta have the romaine. You gotta have the dressing, the croutons, whatever. People do kale Caesar these days, but like, they're specifying it's a kale Caesar. That's fine.

• 31:15Dan Pashman?

  So if they call it a kale Caesar, then it's still a Caesar, but like a cousin?

• 31:19Speaker 02

  Yes. It's like, if I order a Caesar salad and it comes with kale, I am sending that back. You know, like, I am not accepting that. It has to say kale on the menu. If the menu just says Caesar salad, I expect romaine. I don't expect any. If it comes with iceberg, I'm leaving. It's gotta have cheese, the Parmesan cheese, gotta have croutons, gotta have the Caesar dressing.

• 31:42Dan Pashman?

  Okay.

• 31:43Speaker 02

  It's a low bar, come on.

• 31:44Dan Pashman?

  But Pie, this is where I think this becomes a bigger conversation. The curveball here, halfway through Rebecca tells us that she's vegan. She and her husband are both vegan.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  If you're vegan, you're not eating Caesar salad. Like, I hate to break it to you.

• 31:57Dan Pashman?

  A true Caesar dressing has eggs in it.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  You're not having anchovies, you're not having cheese, you're not having eggs. So like, what are you having?

• 32:03Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  To have this level of...

• 32:04Speaker 02

  It's not even a Caesar dressing in the first place.

• 32:06Dan Pashman?

  So can you be a Caesar salad purist and be vegan?

• 32:09Speaker 01

  You can, just by definition of what a Caesar salad is, like... You have this high bar of what a Caesar salad is and then not be able to eat a Caesar salad. It's crazy to me. You're vegan. You're already not having a Caesar salad.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  To be fair, you can like have a vegan Caesar dressing that uses vegan alternatives to things. There's a vegan alternative to everything, right? You can have the vegan cheese and the vegan anchovies, whatever that is. And you still like have the spirit of the Caesar salad.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  Yes, you can, you can make like a close fiximile of, of like, you can do it with miso and nutritional yeast and amino acids and like all these things and make a pseudo Caesar.

• 32:48Dan Pashman?

  And it can be very delicious.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  And it can be very, yeah, undeniably delicious, undeniably hit those same umami notes, but it's not a Caesar salad. If we're talking about like what a Caesar salad is.

• 32:57Dan Pashman?

  It's certainly not the truest, most classic, purest version of a Caesar salad. And so you can't, you can't have it both ways. You can't be eating a vegan Caesar salad and also rail against anybody who would deviate from the classic ingredients as not being a real Caesar salad.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  That's one of the greatest plot twists I think I've heard in a long time.

• 33:16Dan Pashman?

  Sorry, Rebecca, hate to break it to you, but it sounds like you're either, neither of you are eating Caesar salads or you're both eating Caesar salads.

• 33:25Dan Pashman?

  All right, we're gonna take one more short break. Coming up, we'll chat with a couple fighting over what to do with subpar food. And also, what's the deal with salted versus unsalted butter? Why not just use unsalted butter and add your own salt? Pie and ham, we will debate. Stick around.

• 33:45Speaker 09

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• 33:50Speaker 09

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• 34:20Dan Pashman?

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• 34:59Speaker 10

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• 35:36Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back to the show. And a quick note that we're already looking for callers for our next one of these call-in episodes. If you have any kind of a food fight with a friend or loved one, or a hot take, or a question, I want to hear from you. Drop me a line at [email protected]. All right, pie and ham. We have an email from Barbara to address here. She writes, "My son-in-law and I have a dispute about salted butter versus unsalted. He says he will only use unsalted butter so he can control the salt. His only exceptions are that he uses salted butter for toast and melting it for dipping crab meat. I say there's such little sodium in salted butter that it doesn't really make that much difference. Does it really matter? Ham?"

• 36:15Speaker 01

  I feel like it depends on how much you're seasoning something, but I, this is something that you've heard food media people tell you, that recipe developers tell you at nauseam, that you have to always use unsalted butter so you can control the salt. Recently, I have changed my mind. I am 100% team salted butter.

• 36:35Dan Pashman?

  Always?

• 36:36Speaker 01

  Always, always.

• 36:37Dan Pashman?

  Really? Why?

• 36:37Speaker 01

  Just team salted butter. I think the butter tastes better. There's something about storing the butter with that salt that just improves the flavor. And usually, we, we, we use a nice French cultured butter that comes salted at home. And it's great for toast. It's great for baking. It's great for all these things. You might need to adjust your, some of your baking recipes for, with some salt, with the salted butter.

• 37:01Dan Pashman?

  So maybe don't add the pinch of salt because you're using salted butter instead of unsalted.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Exactly. And, and like cookies and things. And, and if you're, you're cooking something savory with salted butter, you are always tasting and adjusting for salt anyways. So it's not going to be that big a difference there. But I do find that the, the flavor of the butter is better using a salted butter.

• 37:20Dan Pashman?

  Pi, thoughts on this?

• 37:22Speaker 02

  I feel the same way. I think if you, there's no need to keep two different butters for two different situations. And even for baking, in my experience, a lot of recipes lowballs on the salt anyway.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Agree.

• 37:34Speaker 02

  A lot of recipes-

• 37:35Dan Pashman?

  I was gonna say that, yes.

• 37:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, can really use a little more salt. So if you are starting with salted butter and just follow the recipe, you might actually end up with something better.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. And there's nothing worse than unsalted butter spread on toast.

• 37:50Speaker 01

  It's the worst.

• 37:50Dan Pashman?

  Well, that's-

• 37:50Speaker 02

  Like, it's like, it's just grease.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  It's the worst.

• 37:54Dan Pashman?

  But even Barbara's son-in-law says that he uses salted butter for toast. So that, we all agree. Yeah, I, I, I'm generally with you. There's something about the way that salt infuses into salted butter that you just can't, it's just not the same when you add them separately. That being said, I have gotten burned a couple of times. I used salted butter and then something ended up too salty. It was like scrambled eggs. And because of that, I got scared baking. And sometimes when the, a baking recipe calls for unsalted butter, I'll do half and half.

• 38:21Speaker 02

  Half salted butter, half unsalted butter?

• 38:24Speaker 01

  That's wild. That is wild, Dan. That's out of control.

• 38:28Dan Pashman?

  Is that ridiculous?

• 38:29Speaker 01

  That's ridiculous.

• 38:30Speaker 02

  We're all trying to reduce the amount of butter we have to stock here.

• 38:33Dan Pashman?

  Right, I guess so.

• 38:36Dan Pashman?

  All right, Pie and Ham, we have one more call to take. Hi, who's this?

• 38:40Speaker 04

  Hi, this is Sarah. I'm here with my husband Keith and we're in Ontario.

• 38:44Dan Pashman?

  Sarah, say hello to my friends Ham and Pie.

• 38:47Speaker 04

  Hi, how are you guys?

• 38:48Dan Pashman?

  Hey Sarah.

• 38:49Speaker 02

  Good, thank you.

• 38:50Dan Pashman?

  Sarah, what seems to be the issue?

• 38:52Speaker 04

  So our food feud is about how far we're willing to go to avoid food waste. So I will go to great lengths, essentially becoming a human green bit. Whereas Keith will forget about the leftovers and eat something good.

• 39:09Dan Pashman?

  Something good. All right, that's already a loaded comment because I love some leftovers. You're framing this as a debate between eating the leftovers and eating something good. So does that mean that the leftovers are never good?

• 39:21Speaker 04

  I think I'm a pretty darn good cook. So, you know, I think the leftovers are pretty good and I'll usually zhuzh them up with a little freshness of some sort. But then Keith will, you know, come home with my death row meal, which is a chicken shawarma plate from a local restaurant here.

• 39:38Dan Pashman?

  Sarah, you're saying if there's good leftovers in the fridge, you're upset if Keith comes home with new food before the leftovers have been finished?

• 39:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly.

• 39:47Dan Pashman?

  And Keith, what's your take on this situation?

• 39:49Speaker 11

  I think sometimes you just gotta let go, you know? Some food just might not be meant for the next day or in some cases, the next week. And we just gotta move on. Variety is the spice of life and so just eating the same thing the next day just is not as enjoyable.

• 40:05Dan Pashman?

  I like the word enjoyable.

• 40:09Speaker 02

  So Keith, what is your bar? Like, is eating it again the next day okay? Are you talking about like twice more, three times more, one day? Like what is, you must have a line somewhere.

• 40:22Speaker 11

  Sure, I think there's obviously the convenience factor of having like something delicious in the fridge the next day. Get it into the third day, I'm moving on.

• 40:30Speaker 02

  What about the age of food? Like if you haven't had it, but it's been five days?

• 40:35Dan Pashman?

  Let's say you eat it on the day that it's cooked and then you don't eat it for three days. And then, but it's still in the fridge, would you eat it then?

• 40:42Speaker 11

  Okay, yeah, sure. Why not?

• 40:44Speaker 02

  Okay, okay.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  Chicken shawarma is also my death row meal, Sarah. So that's a hard thing to say no to. What's your biggest issue here? Do you, are you concerned about the... Whether the food is still good a few days out, are you?

• 40:58Dan Pashman?

  Good, meaning spoiled or not spoiled?

• 40:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, spoiled or not spoiled? Are you, or are you more concerned of your, about your quality of life? Or like about the variety of food that you're eating?

• 41:08Speaker 11

  For me, it's the, it's the variety of, uh, you know, something new. Not, not as concerned about it being spoiled.

• 41:14Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 41:14Dan Pashman?

  And Sarah, for you, i- is it that you just have a higher tolerance for eating the same thing a few days in a row? Or is there another reason why this is important to you?

• 41:24Speaker 04

  I think I do have a higher tolerance for eating things repeatedly. But also, I'll add to the mix that, uh, a lot of what I prepare is fairly vegetable-heavy, which is not Keith's favorite thing. So that's, I think, an added layer. Whereas I, you know, I thrive off of veggies and I will eat them again and again. But then I get a little bit of FOMO.

• 41:46Dan Pashman?

  When that chicken shawarma plate comes rolling in.

• 41:48Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 41:49Speaker 01

  Right. Who does all of the cooking?

• 41:50Speaker 04

  I would say mostly me.

• 41:52Dan Pashman?

  And Sarah, like, like, I, I know when you wrote in, you talked about the issue of food waste. But like, i- is the, is it, is the food getting thrown out?

• 41:59Speaker 04

  Throwing out anything is tough for me. Um, so I, I will eat it or I'll transfer it to the freezer with the vow that I'll eat it one day.

• 42:10Speaker 02

  So is the, the, what upsets you, Sarah? Is the fact that you're left to carry the burden of the leftover all on your own? And that your life partner isn't there to support you in this?

• 42:21Speaker 04

  You got it.

• 42:22Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 42:23Dan Pashman?

  Keith, Keith, what's your response to that?

• 42:25Speaker 11

  I don't know. I think that, uh, you know, I pull my weight where I can and, uh, you know, we've been married almost 10 years and, uh, you know, I think we gotta take that into consideration when, uh, cooking something that I might not be there to carry the weight.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  Is there, is there the possibility to make less food? Like, how, how much?

• 42:43Speaker 04

  I was gonna say that.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  How much food are you preparing?

• 42:45Speaker 04

  How about we make less of it?

• 42:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, just make, make less. Right? Cause it's, if, if you're making like, if you're making eight quarts of veggie chili, because you have no problem eating veggie chili every day for two weeks.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  That's on you.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  That, that's on you. Yeah, yeah. Like, it's like, it's, luckily, my, my wife, Sol, and I both Share. I agree with Keith in this way. Like I, we're both cooks. We love food and it's very tough for us to eat the same thing more than once more. So if like, we'll make something, if we have some leftovers, we'll dish it up the next day, we'll eat that. And then past that, we rarely have leftovers because we know how we eat. But I would, I would try and portion down to something that you know you could eat.

• 43:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, my relationship is very much similar to, to Sarah and Keith, actually. I'm always the one telling everybody to finish what we have. And my husband's always the one buying fricking sandwiches, you know, from the grocery store. And I'm like, what is this? However, because I do the cooking, I take responsibility for the amount of food that I have created.

• 43:51Dan Pashman?

  Okay, so, so it sounds like ham and pie are speaking with one voice here, Sarah. What are your thoughts on this?

• 43:56Speaker 04

  I think that's a great suggestion. I would say, you know, some things are definitely conducive to scaling down. Whereas others might be a little more challenging, like if we buy a rotisserie chicken or something. But yeah, I mean, I think maybe I gotta bust out the calculator and maybe adjust my recipes, have them maybe.

• 44:17Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, I mean, if the two of you share a rotisserie chicken the first night, there's, you can get four meals out of a rotisserie chicken.

• 44:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 44:27Dan Pashman?

  I could eat, I could eat a half rotisserie chicken in a sitting.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  In one sitting, easy. Rotisserie chicken probably lasts in our, in our house with, so it's, it's the two of us and a, and a toddler. Seventy-five percent of that chicken's getting eaten on one night. And then, and then we're like making some, some chicken quesadillas the next day and then that's gone.

• 44:45Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, Sarah, that's another option. Have you considered just eating more?

• 44:53Speaker 02

  Or buying smaller chickens?

• 44:58Dan Pashman?

  Keith, I mean, the judgments are coming down a little bit harshly that this is really on Sarah. How do you feel about this? Are you willing to, is there, is there anything that you think you can do to help out here a little bit? Do you think you could eat, you know, eat a few more leftovers once in a while just to meet Sarah somewhere in the middle?

• 45:15Speaker 11

  Yeah, sure. Obviously, I like where the, the advice is coming because, you know, it's empowering me in this moment. But as the call moves on and then we return to normal life in a house of one on one, won't always win. So definitely think I got it. I like the suggestion of just eating more. So maybe on night one, I'll just eat more.

• 45:33Dan Pashman?

  All right. So cook less and eat more.

• 45:36Speaker 02

  And Keith, this is your golden opportunity to do something nice for your wife.

• 45:42Speaker 11

  Exactly.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  Eat her leftovers.

• 45:44Speaker 11

  And if you're ever in the doghouse, eat some, bust out those leftovers.

• 45:48Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 45:49Dan Pashman?

  It sounds like you both have a little bit of work to do.

• 45:51Speaker 11

  All right.

• 45:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:53Dan Pashman?

  Keith and Sarah in Ontario, thank you so much for joining us. Good luck with your next dinner and the leftovers.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  Thanks so much.

• 45:59Speaker 11

  Thanks, guys.

• 46:00Speaker 02

  Bye.

• 46:00Speaker 11

  Bye. Thank you.

• 46:04Dan Pashman?

  Before we wrap up, I want to remind you that we're always looking for folks to call in for these caller shows, either with food related disagreements and disputes. Maybe it's your hot takes or questions. I want to hear from you. Send us an email or voice memo to hello at sporkful.com. My thanks to everyone who called in and to our special guests. Ham Elwaly is the author of Hello Home Cooking, which you can find wherever books are sold. He's also at Ham Egram, Hamagram on Instagram or at Sola and Ham on YouTube. Thank you, Ham.

• 46:33Speaker 11

  Thank you.

• 46:34Dan Pashman?

  And Pailin Chongchenan is the author of Hot Thai Kitchen and Sabai. She's also at Hot Thai Kitchen on Instagram and at Pailin's Kitchen on YouTube. Thank you, Pae.

• 46:44Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me.

• 46:45Dan Pashman?

  And while you're following folks on Instagram, I hope you'll follow me too. I'm at the Sporkful. Next week on the show, I visit an Afghan restaurant in Houston's become a gathering place for new refugees. The owner tells me his story of coming to the US and how things have changed in Houston since American troops withdrew from Afghanistan. That's next week. While you wait for that one, check out last week's episode with Eva Longoria. It's up now. And hey, did you know you can listen to The Sporkful on the SiriusXM app? Yes, the SiriusXM app, it has all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era, plus live sports coverage. Does your podcasting app have that? And there's interviews with A-list stars and so much more. It's everything you want in a podcast app and music app all rolled into one. And right now, Sporkful

• 47:28Dan Pashman?

  listeners can get three months free of the SiriusXM app by going to siriusxm.com/sporkful. This episode was produced by me along with managing producer- Emma Morgenstern. And senior producer-

• 47:40Speaker 11

  Andres O'Hara.

• 47:41Dan Pashman?

  It was edited by- Camille Stanley. Our engineer is- Jared O'Connell. Music help from Black Label Music. The Sporkful is a production of SiriusXM Podcasts. Our executive producer is Camille Stanley. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.

• 47:53Speaker 12

  And I'm Alex Fall, calling from San Diego, California, reminding everyone to eat more, eat better, and eat more better.

• 48:09Dan Pashman?

  Thank you to Bonnie Plants for sponsoring this segment. Spring is here, which means a lot of you are getting ready to plant your vegetable gardens. That's why I wanted to talk with Amy Enfield, a senior horticulturist at Scott's Miracle Grow, to answer your pressing gardening questions. But first, how does someone become a senior horticulturist?

• 48:27Speaker 13

  Lots and lots of years of practice. I've been doing this over 30 years.

• 48:32Dan Pashman?

  And what are the parts of your job that still get you excited today?

• 48:36Speaker 13

  I like that I still get to work with plants. I still like getting my hands in the dirt.

• 48:40Dan Pashman?

  Amy says this is her favorite time of the year. There's just one issue.

• 48:43Speaker 13

  I can't breathe. I have really bad spring allergies, but I don't-

• 48:48Dan Pashman?

  You're literally allergic to your profession, Amy.

• 48:50Speaker 13

  I'm allergic to my profession.

• 48:52Dan Pashman?

  That's how we know you really love it.

• 48:56Dan Pashman?

  In fact, Amy loves it so much, she actually has a PhD in plant and environmental science. So yes, it's true, I'm bringing the questions we got from listeners to a doctor. All right, Dr. Amy, first question. Samantha asks, how do I know what my soil needs to grow things well? How do you tell if you have good soil? How do you tell what it needs to be better soil?

• 49:15Speaker 13

  So almost every soil, especially if you plant it in it, needs to be refreshed. Without even doing anything else. So mixing in some composted manure or compost or bad garden soil, just to help kind of re-fluff the structure, re-add nutrients and other things. Have a soil test done. It'll tell you what nutrients are lacking in the soil. But nine times out of 10, if you just mix in some fresh compost every year, your garden bed's gonna get what it needs.

• 49:42Dan Pashman?

  Oh, okay. Tim writes, "Do I have to dedicate my life to my pear and apple trees to get edible fruit without worms?"

• 49:49Speaker 13

  My friend will tell you yes.

• 49:54Speaker 13

  You do have to follow a spray routine with your pears and apples if you want to get a nice, healthy, worm-free apple. I have never had a successful fruit crop without having to go out and do the occasional insecticide application when they need it, so.

• 50:11Dan Pashman?

  Right. Kayla in Patterson, New York writes, "I've had success growing the typical veggies and herbs, but I'm craving something new. A coworker recently introduced me to ground cherries, and I love their unusual flavor. I'm curious to know if there are other fruits or veggies that are relatively easy to grow and have a unique taste, but not easily found at a store or market. I'd love suggestions. Quick note, the ground cherries are also known as husk cherries. They have a thin, papery husk and taste like pineapple and a baby with a tomato. Anyway, Dr. Amy, do you have suggestions? What can she grow that would be somewhat novel, but not too tough to grow?"

• 50:46Speaker 13

  Well, first, she's not wrong. It's like pineapple. And if you roast them, it's like pineapple upside down cake.

• 50:52Dan Pashman?

  Oh.

• 50:52Speaker 13

  Ground cherries are, they're just a messy plant because they drop everywhere, but they are really good. Yeah. And then the husking takes some time.

• 51:00Dan Pashman?

  Quick note, if you want more info on ground cherries, Bonnie has you covered. They have a fantastic website with so much info, including an article specifically entitled "How to Grow Ground Cherries." They've also got a product catalog that lets you filter by type of growing space you have, how much sunlight it gets, and a bunch of other categories to make sure you pick plants that are just right for you. Even if you're like Kayla, and you're looking to grow something a little different.

• 51:23Speaker 13

  Other kind of unique plants, cucamelons, they're like little mini mouse melons, I think. Is what they're also called. They're this tiny little about an inch long fruit that tastes a lot like just a cucumber. And you can just sit there and pop them in your mouth in the garden. It's like I pick one, eat one kind of thing. But they're good garnish. They're good to pickle. And they're just kind of this different, unique little plant that you can try.

• 51:52Speaker 13

  Other kind of different things, and it's not that they're unique, but you can find some really cool peppers and all sorts of weird shapes and heat from super sweet to, you know, knock your socks off spicy.

• 52:04Dan Pashman?

  Thank you again to the sponsor of today's segment, Bonnie Plants. You know, getting your garden started can feel intimidating if you're a first timer. Even if you've done a lot of gardening, there's probably questions you have. There's things that you thought you had it down, it grew well two years ago, and then last year it was just giving you trouble and you don't know what it was. Bonnie can help. Bonnie Plants believes that growing your own garden should be simple, accessible, and attainable. And Bonnie's website has so many fantastic resources to help guide you through the process. It basically holds your hand the whole time. And then, eventually, you get the reward when the plants start growing. And you get to the point you've built out an entirely edible garden. You can have fresh ingredients right in your backyard, or under a windowsill for you apartment dwellers. And having a vegetable garden is so relaxing.

• 52:48Dan Pashman?

  You know, you can find your moment of peace and quiet in the day, just spending a few minutes watering or weeding to keep your plants growing healthy. Then you get to feel that moment of joy when it's time to harvest your crop. And there is really nothing more gratifying. If you love to cook, then just go out into the backyard or to the windowsill, picking a few tomatoes, a few basil leaves, maybe you wanted some parsley to sprinkle over a dish and make it look pretty. Knowing that you grew it yourself makes it special, and I think it makes it taste better. With over a century of experience growing fresh, quality plants, Bonnie Plants can be your partner in successfully growing delicious, fresh food and finding your moment. Head to bonnieplants.com for more.

• 53:26Speaker 14

  Hey everyone, it's Stavros Halakis and I'm here to tell you about my podcast, Stavi's World. Each week, we're joined by great guests like Josh Safdie, Eric Andre, Caleb Heron, and more. It's sort of an interview show, but really, we're just messing around, making each other laugh, and hopefully making you laugh while you're washing the dishes, or grocery shopping, or on a long drive. Plus, I take listener calls where we have honest conversations about dating, life, and everything in between. Imagine if your therapist was a vulgar degenerate whose office was in a Greek diner. No scripts, no polish, and absolutely no holding back. Listen to Stavi's World wherever you get your podcasts.

• 54:04Speaker 15

  Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie. One thing I've learned is that you buy a house, but you make it a home. For decades, Angie's helped millions of homeowners hire skilled pros for the projects that matter. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project at angie.com.