Jay Sean: Master This Skill to Unblock Your Potential & Get to the Next Level in Your Creative Process

Is it possible to pivot and lean into our passions later on in adulthood? How can you successfully remain true to your identity while following different ventures? Today on the show we have Jay Sean, a renowned global artist whose impact on the music industry has been profound since his debut in 2003 with the groundbreaking album "Me Against Myself." Over the past two decades, Jay has contributed five studio albums, a standout greatest hits compilation, and a collection of engaging mixtapes. With an impressive career spanning 20 years, Jay has consistently demonstrated his musical prowess and fearlessness in embracing new creative challenges while remaining authentically connected to his artistic roots. This episode is a masterclass in self-awareness. Jay provides practical insights into recognizing and embracing change, uncovering the secrets to thriving in transition, and forging a path that aligns with your core values. Tune in and get ready to be inspired, motivated, and equipped with the tools to shape your authentic success story. In this interview you’ll learn: The importance of self-awareness How to let go of fear and embrace new things Insights on how he has let go of self limiting beliefs How Jay has navigated the ups and downs of success Balancing what has brought you success in the past while also leaning into your new passions Remember that embracing new parts of you doesn’t mean you are letting go of yourself. It just means you are meeting different parts of you, growing and evolving. In Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 04:06 Jay shares insights into his upbringing, discussing the influence of his driven parents and their sacrifices. 12:15 The moment Jay knew he wanted to study medicine and pursue a musical career 18:27 When it clicked for him and changed the trajectory of his life 25:39 Dreams feeling within reach 35:14 The importance of not keeping yourself in a box 43:40 Lessons learned over the past 20 years 44:45 Why are you doing this? 53:30 Why staying true to himself has helped navigate challenges 58:30 The story of how Ride It came to be 01:01:46 The power of letting go of your ego and leaning into your curiosity 01:13:01 Letting Go of Former Identities 01:17:09 What we can learn from Rocky Balboa 01:19:31 Breaking free from a trapped identity 01:25:38 Conclusion Episode Resources: Jay Sean | Facebook Jay Sean | Instagram Jay Sean | TikTok See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Your heart can tell you a lot about your health. Apple Watch Series 12 measures your heart rate every five seconds with the most accurate heart rate sensing in wearable. So your vitals app, now with heart rate variability, can tell you when something is off. And your readiness score can let you know when to rest and when to push. Hear the story in every heartbeat with Apple Watch Series 12. The features described are for wellness purposes only and not for medical use. iPhone 11 or later required. Based on Apple conducted study of heart rate accuracy, August 2026. Visit apple.com slash apple watch series 12.

• 0:30Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by AG1. Are you feeling September reset too? Shorter days, longer to do lists, earlier alarms, all those routines you promised yourself you'd pick back up. It can feel like your whole life is recalibrating. And when everything around you is changing, it helps to have a few things you can rely on. AG1 Next Gen is one of those easy habits to keep. It's the clinically backed, comprehensive daily health drink that supports your gut health, energy production, and foundational nutrition all in one scoop. AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for absorption, potency, and nutrient density to deliver the foundational nutrition your body needs.

• 1:12Jay Shetty?

  And alongside a proper diet, AG1 Next Gen meets 94% of nutrient requirements and is clinically shown to enrich the gut microbiome. For a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at drinkag1.com/OnPurpose. That's drinkag1.com/OnPurpose. This episode is brought to you by Mazda. Confidence isn't something Mazda finds, it's something they practice. That's the thinking behind every Mazda. With proactive safety features designed to help keep you more aware, more connected, and more engaged with the road ahead.

• 1:53Jay Shetty?

  It's why Mazda has been named Consumer Reports' safest new car brand and has won more 2026 IIHS Top Safety Pick+ Awards than any other car brand as of July 2026. Visit www.iihs.org to learn more. A lot can happen when an accident doesn't. Visit MazdaUSA.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse products or services.

• 2:20Jay Shetty?

  Let's be honest, life is stressful. It's work, it's relationships, and the state of the world. But there's a way to bring that stress level down. Calm. It's the number one app for mental wellness with tons of content to manage anxiety, promote concentration, and help you unwind. There's music, meditation, and more. Calm makes it easy to de-stress. You can literally do a one-minute breathing exercise. Personally, I love the soundscapes. Nothing like a little rain on leaves to help soothe my nervous system. I've actually been working with Calm for a couple of years now, and I'd love for you to check out my series on reducing overwhelm. Eight Short Practices, Quick Relief.

• 3:01Jay Shetty?

  Right now, listeners of On Purpose get 40% off a subscription to Calm Premium at calm.com/jay. That's C-A-L-M dot com forward slash J-A-Y for 40% off. Calm your mind, change your life.

• 3:19Speaker 02

  I lost myself, even when I was behind the mic singing it. There was no smile on my face. It was me against everyone else in the music industry.

• 3:28Speaker 03

  Next guest is Take It America by Storm, clocking up serious huge hit.

• 3:36Speaker 02

  I would get in my car and just cry because I was so lost and so scared. Who else gets a major record deal and then walks away from it?

• 3:45Jay Shetty?

  Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All I want you to do is click on the subscribe button. I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments, and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing. It means the world to me.

• 4:14Jay Shetty?

  Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now, one of my favorite things about this platform is I get to sit down with friends who are changemakers, incredible influencers, doing amazing things in the world, but I have this behind the scenes friendship with them and I get to hang with them. I get to invite you all into a genuine, truthful conversation, a sincere conversation that we probably have had at dinners and when we're hanging out, but then we get to record it and share it with all of you. And today's guest is someone that I was a fan of ever since I was in my teens. Like, I remember when his first song that I discovered him through dropped and it literally felt like it changed culture for me and my friends. And we knew what we

• 4:58Jay Shetty?

  wanted to play, we knew what we wanted to listen to, we were sharing it with all our friends. And to watch his career from afar, rise in the way that it did, and the changes that he's made, the moves that he's made, was phenomenal for Little J aged 14 and beyond there. I'm speaking about British Indian singer songwriter Jay Sean, who emerged in the American pop music scene a decade ago with his Billboard Hot 100 number one single, Down. The pop music titan changed the game stateside for both Asian and UK acts alike, hitting historical strides and breaking down multiple doors as a solo artist. Jay was the first Asian artist in history to have a Billboard number one in America. He was

• 5:40Jay Shetty?

  also the first Asian and first British artist to have two simultaneous top 10 Billboard singles. Jay's also the first British and first Asian artist to have a Spanish language number one in America. Welcome to the show, my good friend and amazing human, Jay Sean.

• 5:56Speaker 02

  Bro, wow. Thank you, man. What a beautiful introduction. I love that, man. It's great to be here, brother.

• 6:03Jay Shetty?

  It's so good to have you here, man. And obviously, I got, I met you. So for everyone who doesn't know, and you probably don't know this, I met Jay the first week I moved, when I say Jay also, I'm now talking about Jay Sean, not referring to myself. The first time I met you was the first week I moved to LA.

• 6:18Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 6:19Jay Shetty?

  Because I met Jeremy, who you've been working with for a long time. I love you, Jeremy. And Jeremy introduced us.

• 6:26Jay Shetty?

  And this was in two thousand and eighteen.

• 6:29Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 6:29Jay Shetty?

  And I loved how genuine you were, how down to earth you were, like it was so easy to chat to you.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  Thank you, bro.

• 6:35Jay Shetty?

  We hit it off right away and I wish you lived in L A still so we could hang out all the time.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  Bro, I know. We keep talking about that, right? But no, it is. It's so lovely to be here with you, bro. So proud of you and what you've done. You know what I mean? I know that you have guests on and it's about them, but you know, what you've been doing, I've been watching everything. It's amazing. Makes me proud. And you know, obviously we're both from England, you know, both from, what part of London were you from?

• 7:01Jay Shetty?

  North London.

• 7:01Speaker 02

  North London. Okay. So I was West London, obviously Hounslow.

• 7:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  South of course first, standard, as cliches against for any Indian. But you know, it's not easy, right? Having these lofty dreams, you know, and then being here in L A, which is literally the land of dreams and broken dreams. Let's be honest about that. There's people who have goals and but there's also broken dreams. So to be able to, you know, do what you're doing and what I'm doing is really beautiful. So yeah, thank you for having me, man.

• 7:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, man. Let's, let's, let's start there because I think I find it really interesting. At one point in my life, I think I had big dreams when I was a teenager, but I never actually believed the dreams could be real. Because I didn't have role models, people I could see doing those things. Did you always have big dreams and a belief that your life could go down that way?

• 7:50Speaker 02

  You know, bro, the one thing about me, ever since I was a kid, I always wanted to A, work my hardest, try my hardest, and apply myself. I've been a very driven person ever since I was a kid. And I think really, and so is my brother, I have one brother, Naru. And I think both of us have that, we share that same quality. We're very, very highly driven people. Now, that comes solely from my parents. It really does. My dad is a big, big dreamer, big dreamer, bro. And I only found out recently, like when I started going into music and my brother went into film, that these were also my dad's dreams, but they were hidden. My dad always, you know, my dad used to write poetry and nobody ever knew it, but he ended up being a businessman and a very successful businessman.

• 8:35Speaker 02

  But seeing my dad's drive and my mom is super hardworking as well. We were always inspired by that, like, wow, like, how did dad do this? He had three factories. They used to manufacture denim. They're like, you know, Topman and River Island, all these places, they used to make all the jeans. And it came from nothing, came from just a vision. So that was then, but then also they put us into a private school. Now, private school in England, as you know, it's it's it costs a lot of money. Now, I could have gone to a school in the area that I lived in, Hounslow. But it wasn't the most affluent area at the time, it wasn't the best school system at the time. So my parents wanted to be able to put us into an education system where they felt like we could excel. And so they did, but that was a sacrifice.

• 9:21Speaker 02

  They didn't get to go on holidays every summer and go to Barbados. And that money, they invested into me and my brother. And I think because I saw that sacrifice, we always wanted to work hard. So we, you know, we knew what they were doing, it was for us. Um, but the school that we went to was, I think, and Latimer Opera School, I have to shout them out. Because an incredible school, because not only did you have to be smart to get in. So you had smart kids, but they weren't like, oh, stuffy, I go to Latimer and I don't do anything fun. No, it was creative, they were fun, we had, we had so much of a laugh. And it was an all-boys school. And the reason I'm telling you that is, we weren't getting dressed up during the day to impress girls.

• 10:05Speaker 02

  I wasn't doing my hair to impress girls. So how did you make friends? How did you become the popular one? Everyone was smart, you had to have something. You had to either be the funny guy, or you had to be the athletic dude, or you had to be like the captain of the football team. So everybody excelled, but in a, in a, in a competitive way, but like in a nice, friendly, competitive manner. So that has always been my nature, to, to do well. And to, to apply myself to whatever I do. And I think I've been like that my whole life. That's why I always, you know, I'm always doing different stuff, picking up different projects. Because if this is all we got, bro, you know, why not make the most of it? Do, do the things you enjoy and try to, try to see how far you can get with them.

• 10:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, definitely. What, what, what was it like having those conversations with your parents in those early days?

• 10:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:57Jay Shetty?

  Because we've talked about it a million times and every Indian has that pressure and even.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 11:02Jay Shetty?

  You know, the other night I was at an event and it was the same thing where like Indian parents were talking about this idea of just like doctor, lawyer, engineer. We've heard it a million times, but you were on that path. You were on that path to make your parents the proudest Indian parents of all time of becoming a doctor. And I think there are a lot of people who listen to this and even if they don't have an Indian upbringing, they may have an upbringing where their parents' expectations mean something.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 11:27Jay Shetty?

  And their parents' expectations are important to them because they love their parents and they see their sacrifice. A lot of people who are listening may be thinking, my parents work so hard. I look ungrateful if I follow my dreams. What was that like?

• 11:41Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Listen, that's such a good point, Jay, because I, of course, I get asked that question a lot, right? Like, and, and some people might not know, you're right, I was on my path to being a doctor. It's not just necessarily an Asian thing. We can really break this down because as a parent now myself, I understand what it's like to want the best for your kids. You want them not to struggle. You want them to have a profession. You don't want them to be like, oh yeah, you know, have this dream. I want to be an artist, a painter and this, that and you're like, that's great. I love that, but I also don't want you to struggle for money. I don't, so you don't have to be an Asian parent to want your kids to do well in school job. But the Asian thing, the reason it's a stereotype, I think personally, is because we were immigrants.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  So therefore you can come with a dream and you could, you couldn't come on a ship from India, come to England and go, hmm, I want to be a professional gymnast. They'll be like, what? Shut up, bro. You just left the bend. You've left the village. You need to earn money. So the, our grandparents didn't get to have a lofty dream. They just had to work hard. They had to work two jobs sometimes, three jobs to put food on the table. So then therefore that also gets passed down to the, to their kids. Um, but with my, with my particular situation. Um. The medicine wasn't my parents' dream for me. It was actually mine. I was a super nerd in school, bro. I loved getting straight eight grades. I I loved working hard and then seeing the fruits of my labor.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  So when I used to get those top grades, it made me feel like I'd achieved something. And it wasn't like, oh, mom and dad will be happy. I knew they'd be happy as well, but it was like, I'm happy for myself. I worked hard for this, right? So I actually got fascinated with science. I still am. Completely and utterly fascinated with the human mind and the human body. So before I did medicine, actually, bro, I actually, not many people know this. I think you might be the first person who knows this. I actually did a degree, a combined science degree in psychology and biology.

• 13:36Jay Shetty?

  I didn't know that, yeah.

• 13:37Speaker 02

  Right. So I did a degree in psychology and biology, Bachelor of Science. Um. I fully enjoyed it. And then I was thinking I'm gonna go on to perhaps become a psychologist or a psychiatrist. I wanted to help people. I wanted to get in. That was always been my thing. Ended up applying for medicine and did two years of medicine. But like anybody, you have hobbies. My hobby was music. So I was probably about twelve or thirteen years old when I got obsessed with hip hop. I couldn't give it up. I was writing raps at the age of thirteen because I was watching

• 14:20Speaker 02

  these rappers. Do you remember Yo MTV? I don't know if you remember this, probably. I'm gonna show my age. I'm gonna show my age here. Um. Yo MTV Raps, okay, used to be, because in England, growing up in England, we didn't have access to, A, of course, we didn't have the internet back then. We didn't have access to all of these hip hop shows. So we had this cable show on MTV and it would come on and it was called Yo MTV Raps with Ed Lover and Dr. Dre.

• 14:40Jay Shetty?

  I had MTV Base.

• 14:42Speaker 02

  Well, there you go.

• 14:42Jay Shetty?

  Trevor Nelson.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 14:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and Westwood.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, Westwood, all of that. Obviously, I'm going completely off topic here.

• 14:50Jay Shetty?

  I want you to.

• 14:50Speaker 02

  But but yeah, like, point being, you know, the the applying yourself and and the working hard and all that stuff. It was anything I took an interest in, I would take it to the extreme. So, science, work, academia, interested in it. Wanna do well. Took it to the extreme. Let's go. One degree. All right, no, but I wanna do this too. And in my head, there was nothing saying you can't do that. There was nothing saying, you don't need a degree, bro. Chill now. Go get a job. I was like, no, but I'm also wanna do this. And I think I've always been like that my whole life. So there I am studying medicine, but I also wanna, for some weird reason, go on stage and rap. And I was a rapper then.

• 15:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  I wasn't a singer.

• 15:34Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 15:35Speaker 02

  Anyway, so I've always been juggling, bro. I've always been juggling things that I'm passionate about.

• 15:40Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. What's been something that you think you've taken to the extreme more recently? Or is that mindset still there? Or has that changed as time's gone on?

• 15:47Speaker 02

  So it's not necessarily taking things to an extreme recently, but I have really been interested in uh being, you know, the entrepreneur side of the entertainment industry. And it's for a number of reasons. Okay. First of all, being an artist, this is gonna like next year is gonna be twenty years of me being an artist. That's amazing and it's and it's cool, but it doesn't have to be everything I do for the rest of my life. I've been so blessed to be able to do music. Literally, if you think about my job, I write songs, then I sing songs. And I go around the world and I travel and I try to make people happy when I'm performing my my music. But that doesn't mean I don't have other interests.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  It doesn't mean that I'm like, for example, I love restaurants and bars. I love them. Anytime I go to a um a different city, first thing I do, either before or after my show, like where can we go? Where do the locals go and eat? What's the local cuisine here? What's where? Where should I go and sample this city so that I can get to say, I went to Milan and I knew what that felt like.

• 16:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 16:51Speaker 02

  So then I was like, my dream was always like, I want my own restaurant. I want my own bar. So then I did that, you know, we set up an Indian restaurant called Nama and a bar called Switch. And that was fun because it allowed me to use a different side of my brain space. And all of a sudden now I'm making entrepreneurial decisions, which I never really got to do through music because it's a different field. So I like, so you know, and we have the yoga studio that you know, my wife Tara owns and runs. So all of these things keep life interesting for me. And I think that's the thing. I wanna do as much as I can. And enjoy it and and see where I can take it. But it doesn't mean you try to do everything because you don't want to be a jack of, you know, I'm jack of all trades, master of none.

• 17:36Speaker 02

  It's just what fills me. And and so that, you know, I think that the recently that it's been the entrepreneurial uh stuff.

• 17:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's awesome. What has been like, you spoke about earlier, like breaking that stereotype of it's not only, you know, Asian families want their kids to like, you know, be taken care of and do well. In the music industry, walk me through what that was like, because I think even as a British Indian and and an Asian, South Asian person, I don't think we necessarily know what it was like because I think when you grew up in England, especially in London and around the, I mean, to be honest, all across England, Indian culture is very accessible.

• 18:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 18:13Jay Shetty?

  It's normalized, it's everywhere.

• 18:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:15Jay Shetty?

  And then coming to the US, I don't believe when you did that, it was like that as far as I know. And what did you feel you were working with? What were you excited about? What did you come up against that you were trying to make sense of? Because I think there's a lot of people, even right now, I think everyone in different cultures, different traditions, different trajectories has to face some form of resistance, some form of stereotype, some form of opposition. And I've always appreciated your way of navigating these things because I don't think you look at it as like, oh, my God, everyone's against me. I don't think you lived life that way. Walk walk us through what's what goes through your mind.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course, man. So I guess we should really just take it right back to the beginning, right? So to answer that question, you know, I'm I'm there, I'm a student, I'm a medical student. Um, I'm obsessed with hip hop still. I'm obsessed with music. My love for hip hop had also like then gone into R and B as well because they were sort of hand in hand by then.

• 19:07Jay Shetty?

  The good times.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:10Jay Shetty?

  I just saw Usher live in Vegas.

• 19:11Speaker 02

  Oh, did you?

• 19:12Jay Shetty?

  This weekend.

• 19:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:13Jay Shetty?

  Oh, man.

• 19:13Speaker 02

  It it's, you know, it's, again, oh, my God, the brother, there's so much that we can talk about about these things because you say that and he took you back to a, he literally transported you back to a period of your life.

• 19:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 19:25Speaker 02

  Which I sixteen.

• 19:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 19:26Speaker 02

  And what do we, what were the stresses when we were sixteen? Nothing, passing our exams.

• 19:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 19:31Speaker 02

  Get doing well in our GCSEs. Everything else was childhood. It was, it was. Big dreams. It was, you're fearless. You can take on the world. You wanna do anything and everything. And life is just good. You had, music was great then, just, you know, vibes were there, right? And, and that's what I was experiencing. I was, I was listening to, you know, all of that same kinda stuff, Usher and, and, you know, um, and Jagged Edge and Blackstreet and all that stuff. And, and I used to think to myself, every time we went out and we'd go out clubbing with my friends and stuff, it would always be, especially in London, as you know this, quite a heavy, um, Indian demographic, I should say, just like a, you know, a, an Asian demographic. What we call Asian in England, they call South Asian here, yeah.

• 20:16Speaker 02

  Tons of us in all these clubs, we'd go to concerts. I'd go and see Fujis in concert, or I'd go and see, you know, Das effects, I'd go and see Lords of the Underground. All of these people, still a bunch of, of Asians there. And at that time, I had started writing and, you know, I had a friend of mine who's a DJ and we used to make these mixtapes, me and my cousin. And we used to make mixtapes just for our own fun. And then our friends would be like, actually, that's pretty sick. Like, can you make me a copy? Fine, I gave him a copy. Make, and all of a sudden, it was kinda spreading around school. And then that chubby, nerdy Indian kid, you know, became cool, uh, all of a sudden in school.

• 20:56Speaker 02

  And that, that felt nice. But that was just in school. It wasn't happening on a major level anywhere. There was no Asian mainstream artist on stage that we could go and watch, who would sing and or rap the music that we love. So we would go there and I'm like, I'd be at an Usher concert, I'm watching him and I'm watching tons of Asians scream for Usher. And I'm, I'm there, I'm in the mosh pit. But I'm going, why isn't one of us up there? We clearly love this music. If we can listen to this music and we can buy this music, why can't we make this music? Why can't we be the one up there on stage?

• 21:37Speaker 02

  And I think when that click switched for me, that changed everything. Because, again, talking about how I just thought nothing was impossible, I said, well, I'm gonna do that. Why can't I? How, okay, how do I do that? All right, I'll enter talent competitions. So I did. And I'm simultaneously studying, but then I'll be listening to Choice FM at the time it was Choice FM.

• 22:02Jay Shetty?

  I love Choice FM, yeah, back in, yeah.

• 22:04Speaker 02

  Right?

• 22:04Jay Shetty?

  107.1 or something like that?

• 22:06Speaker 02

  Uh, something like that, right?

• 22:07Jay Shetty?

  Something like that.

• 22:07Speaker 02

  And 96.9, I think it was.

• 22:09Jay Shetty?

  96.9, I think it was both, I think it was one of those ones, those, yeah.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  Right, yeah, yeah, exactly. So anyway, I'll be listening to Choice FM and there was this talent competition and it was called Commander B's Night Flight, okay? It's around about midnight and all you have to do, you have to pick up the phone, spit your best verse or sing. At the time I was just a rapper, right? I was obsessed with hip hop. So I said, all right, what have I got to lose? Picked up the phone, dropped a little rhyme. You either get flushed, you got the toilet flush sound, or you get passed on to the next round. I got through. Eventually, they chose the top 100 in the country and then that 100 was put down to, was cut down to the final 20.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  Then the final 20 had to perform live in Brixton Academy, okay? That was my first time on stage ever. And when I looked around, Jay, I'm not lying to you, I was the only, only non-black, non-white person in that room. And I didn't think about it at the time because you're not going, you're not, you're not looking at that, you've just got the mic in your hand and you've got an opportunity and you're going, this is amazing. How did I even get here? This is so fun. It was fun. But now looking back, I was like, I was the only Asian kid and it didn't scare me. And so therefore, you know, I just did what I loved and I did it without fear and I ended up coming third in the whole competition.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  And that's what gave me the confidence to know that I can, I think I can take this somewhere.

• 23:42Jay Shetty?

  How did you have that courage and guts at that age? And I guess it's part of that extreme focus mentality, but like, I feel like today I have so many people in my life that I know that are scared of posting on TikTok.

• 23:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:52Jay Shetty?

  Or posting on Instagram or putting out, like for you to like drop that verse on a phone call, you know, other people are going to hear it, other people are going to find out about it. When you're on stage, of course, you're laid bare in front of all the audience. I think so many people today get in their heads and they're like, well, I can't post that, I look stupid or I can't do that, I'm not good enough. And even people who are really talented stop themselves from putting things out there because they're scared of what their friends will say. I remember when I posted my first video. It was the people closest to me that criticized it or ridiculed it. It wasn't the, it wasn't the audience. The audience actually responded fairly well for day one. But it was the people around me that said, Jay, you talk too fast. Jay, that point didn't make sense. Jay, your editing's not as good as it should be.

• 24:36Jay Shetty?

  Like, that was coming from people I knew, whereas the comments were like, oh, I love this. I just shared this with a friend. And so I feel so many people have that block. What was it for you that gave you that courage to say, this is fun? I love that idea. This is fun. I'm doing what I love and I actually don't care. How, how did you have that then?

• 24:52Speaker 02

  I didn't care. And you're right. You know, the reason why I didn't care back then? Because in order to find out somebody's opinion, they had to actually be in front of you and talk to you about it in person.

• 25:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 25:03Speaker 02

  Right? Now we live in a day and age where we've got connection with every single human being on the planet. We're not built like that, bro. Our brains are not built to have that many connections with that many people. We're just not built like that. That's why we get anxiety. That's why we get, because we know that I post this, it's gonna go out to the world. And then 99.9% of the people who react are people I don't know. And I have to take their criticism on board, but we weren't built to be able to deal with that. We just not designed to be able to deal with that much. So therefore, of course it overwhelms us. Of course it gives us anxiety. Of course we get depressed because user Z, Z1599 said this about me. But we don't know that person.

• 25:46Speaker 02

  So when I was a kid, I just did what I did because I didn't have the opinions of too many people around me. And even if I did, like you said, and that's another, that's another great point. Often the people who are around you might, might not have the courage to take a step out of the comfort zone like you did or I did. So therefore they're just like, oh no, bro. Or maybe it's love. Maybe they're just like, I don't want you to be sad if someone says something about you. I don't want you to be hurt if it doesn't work out.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  I just loved it. That's the only, that's the only truth of it all is when I tell you that it was an obsession, Jay. I was obsessed with hip hop and R and B, but like not just the culture, the technique, okay. So if I was to really break it down, obsessed with the fast rappers of that time. That's what it was. I was obsessed with Big L. I was obsessed with Chip Fu from Fu Schnickens. I was obsessed with Jay-Z with Original Flavor. The way that they would rhyme, it was very, very fast. And that to me was just so cool at the age of 14. How are you rapping that fast? So I would emulate it and I would try to do what they were doing. I was like, damn, how did they do that?

• 27:01Speaker 02

  So it became like this nerdy obsession. And then when it came to singers, it was vocalists. How are you singing like that? How are you doing those runs? How are you doing those riffs? So I would study them. I would study Boys to Men. I would study all these guys and copy their riffs and copy. And that's how I sort of learned how to rap and how to sing by literally just admiring these people who had such a great skillset.

• 27:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  And so therefore, when I learned how to do it for myself, of course, I wanted to just go and have a go at it. So why not go up there and have a go? And, and it wasn't because the end goal was going to be a record deal. I didn't know. I wasn't thinking that far ahead. The end goal was, I love doing this. If you love football, you want to kick a football around. You don't want to just do it in your back garden. If you get a chance to play on a big pitch, are you not gonna go?

• 27:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Right? I love that. The simplicity of that answer is beautiful because I do think that it is love that carries you through. And I think today, it's almost the opposite. It's the inverse, right? So at that time, we didn't have a lot of role models or people that look like you or people like you that had made it. And I don't just mean that by race and gender and back. I just mean in general, in life, fame and success and careers like that were reserved for a few. There are only a finite number of TV channels, finite number of music artists, finite number of actors, all very mysterious and unreachable. And you never knew how they got there. Today, we live in the opposite where it's like, all your friends are influencers, everyone has a hundred.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  Tom, your friends are famous.

• 28:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Everyone's doing, everyone's doing something interesting. You know, someone in your family or a network who's figured something out. Like people are running businesses. There's entrepreneurs here. There's this and that. Someone has a podcast, whatever. So now it's almost the inverse where it's like, now you see it happening so much that now you think. It has to work out that way. So that time you just said, I never believe, I never even thought about a record deal. Now, when you start making music, all you think about is a record deal because it does feel within reach, or it does feel like someone else did it. And I fully agree with you. When I put out my first video, all I thought was, I love sharing this wisdom. I'm tired of just sharing it in small rooms of five people.

• 29:07Jay Shetty?

  I think the wisdom should reach more people. And I'm just trying to see if it works. But there wasn't, there wasn't a goal or a strategy or a whole approach. Like, one day, it's gonna be this, and we're gonna have this, and we're gonna build a media empire. Like, it wasn't like that. It was just, I love this. And I actually don't know what else to do with this, apart from try and share it. This episode is brought to you by Orange Theory Fitness. One of the best investments you can make is in your own strength. The choices you make today can help shape how you feel for years to come. Orange Theory Fitness provides a one-hour workout to build strength, burn fat, and build muscle, with an expert coach guiding you every step of the way. Head to orangestory.com/OnPurpose to learn more and get your first class free.

• 29:49Jay Shetty?

  Orange Theory Fitness, helping people live longer, more vibrant lives. Terms and conditions apply. See webpage in studio for details. This episode is brought to you by Amtrak. You know that feeling when you're already tired and you haven't even gotten there yet? That's where Amtrak comes in. Leave the driving behind and settle into a comfortable seat with plenty of room to stretch out. Catch up on work with wifi, grab a snack at the cafe car, or just sit back and enjoy your favorite podcast. Choose a seller or Northeast Regional and get there without the stress of getting there. Visit amtrak.com to plan your next trip. This episode is brought to you by Vinted. Value can be found anywhere, even in the

• 30:33Jay Shetty?

  clothes sitting untouched in our closets. That's where Vinted comes in. Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where you can sell clothes you no longer want and get more value out of them. Whether you're running out of space, moving, or simply updating your wardrobe. Listing items is a quick and simple process, and once something sells, Vinted creates a prepaid shipping label for you. And the best part, there are no seller fees, so you keep what you earn. It's a simple way to clear out your closet, be less wasteful, and maybe make some extra money along the way. Give your clothes a second life with Vinted. Download the Vinted app for free to start selling with no seller fees. So you keep every dollar you earn.

• 31:15Speaker 02

  I've always believed one thing, right? If I operate from a place of panic, desperation, just looking around, competition, it won't work. It doesn't work for me because it's not true. It's not organic. It's not real. There is no actual substance in that product. It's hollow. It's fake and people can see it. And if, and I really believe in that. I, it's, it sounds airy fairy, but I believe in it. I know for a fact I have made songs just chasing hits. Just like, oh, that song worked. I went so far down that road, bro, of trying to chase big pop hits. I lost myself. I lost, I didn't even, even when I was behind the mic singing it, there was no smile on my face.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  Because I knew you were writing songs for this climate and you got this guy talking in your ear. Hmm, you need to do a song like this because so and so had a number big. Oh, we'll get the producer who did that. Oh, we're right, that's right with the songwriter who did that. I'm like, but I don't even like that music. Yeah, but that's all that's working right now. So you've got to do it. And there was no love in it. And guess what? My fans could tell. They can tell. They're not stupid. They know, this ain't Jay Sean, man. What's he doing? I see what he's doing. It's cool. I love him, so I'll let him do it. But this ain't Jay. This ain't the Jay that we loved. This ain't the Jay that we fell in love with. I see what he's doing. There's a pressure for him to do it. That's cool. We'll stand by him, but we'll wait for him to come back. He'll find his way back, as I always do.

• 32:43Speaker 02

  But when it's not from a place of love and it's not from a place of passion and it's not real, I feel like there's a metadata in that, that people can feel. And that's always been the story of my life.

• 32:55Jay Shetty?

  Hmm, that's beautiful. Yeah, I know. And it's great to have that connection to your audience, but when you start, obviously, like you said, I mean, I still remember when Dance With You came out and we used to wait for it to be played on Channel U and I'm trying to think of where else, but Channel U was my place back then.

• 33:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember Channel U.

• 33:13Jay Shetty?

  And at the back in the day, this is again aging, aging, you'd have to wait for the songs you love to come on, to record them on VHS. So you'd record it and then you'd make your own VHS music video. So then I'd have Usher, P Diddy, Eminem, like whatever else it is, and you're collecting all these people. And then now whenever your mates come over, you put this video in and then you play that, or you're playing Channel U in the background anyway. But it's like, I remember when Dance With You came out, and for anyone who doesn't know it, if you, if you didn't know Jay before the US world, like, go back and see, check that video out because I still think it's a, like, it, it lands even today. That's how good that song is.

• 33:53Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 33:53Jay Shetty?

  And, and it's like, and I can still bump it in the car and it's, it's awesome. But to me, it was such a moment for the culture because it was actually good music and it was actually cool too. And I think that that's hard to do as well. I think it's really hard when you're like trying to do something fresh and new. And you're trying to own a sound or create a sound, but to actually do that is really challenging. So when you're at your best, most creative self, as you were just describing now, walk us through the more texture of that recipe of like, when you're really landing in that passion, that love, the excitement. As you said, like, walk us through that. When you're at your peak creativity, when it's truly authentic, what does that creative process look like?

• 34:32Speaker 02

  There's no thought. And that's what I always tell people, making music

• 34:38Speaker 02

  is not a science. There will be people who tell you, and listen, fine. Some people have had a very, very long, successful career by methodically thinking, hmm, verse must be X amount of syllables and this melody works because this chord structure worked for the last 10 years. Top 10 hits. This is the chord progression and. Cool. I'm not built that way. That's not how I make music. Amazing. Hats off to the people who can write hits like that. That's not how I make music. I feel. I feel and I smile and I jump up and down in the studio when that song is done. And if I'm feeling like that, my, the one thing, the rule I have is after I've written a song,

• 35:18Speaker 02

  if I am not so excited regardless of what time it is, it could be four in the morning, I could have had a 20 hour day. If I'm not excited enough to go behind that mic, bro, and sing that song right there, that second, it ain't it.

• 35:34Speaker 02

  If I can say, ah, I'll wait till tomorrow, then that means my fans can go, ah, I'll wait till tomorrow to hear it. You understand? They have options. And the thing is, I go off of that excitement. So when Dance With You happened, I had met Richie Rich, who really, you know, is responsible for this, just everything from the beginning of the genesis of my career, our, our work together. He heard something in me. He knew I rapped. He knew I sang.

• 36:04Speaker 02

  And what I had developed was a style of blending the two. So I would fast rap and sing, but sing it with a melody. So because the rapper in me was so alive, I didn't approach the beat the way that I would say perhaps if I was just a singer. So I actually wrote it as a rap. So girl, whatever told you, been thinking of all of the possible lyrical ways to come and approach you. And so then I'd write those lyrics down, but then I put a melody, girl, whatever told you, but they could have all of the possible lyrical ways to come and approach you. And it was something that I don't think many people had heard before, but it was my style. And had there been like a suit in the room, like an A and R, he would have gone, huh, you're way too fast. I don't know what you're saying. Slow it down. Too many words. This doesn't work. Who does this?

• 36:48Speaker 02

  Have you seen, give me an example of someone who's had success with a song like this, with a verse like that. That's exactly why you should do it. That's exactly why I did it. It's because it's new, because it was fresh and because it was, it was me, bro. It's me, you know? So when that landed on that song, I think.

• 37:08Speaker 02

  A lot of the the Asian kids in England growing up, if you're growing up in England, you're listening to, you know, probably R and B and hip hop, which is very common for us. At the time, that was the culture, right? That was kind of what we were into. And then your mom's watching some Indian drama or some Indian Shahrukh movie. Yeah. So you got Bollywood. So you got like beautiful Hindi melodies going on in the background. And if you're Punjabi like me, you're going to weddings and they're playing Punjabi music and it's upbeat. Those were all of my musical influences. So when I was in that room, it was not foreign or weird or even contrived for Rishi and I to have. First of all, when Rishi put that Indian flute, to me, I wasn't like, oh, that's Indian. I was like, damn, that's sick.

• 37:53Speaker 02

  That's a sick sample. That sounds amazing over a hip hop beat, pop R and B chords. It was something brand new, but it was something, it was all the music that we listened to in one pot. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't like, it wasn't like we're trying to create a new genre. Yeah. We created a new genre by accident. Yeah. Because it was just the stuff that we were into. So then when we did that, had written that song originally, kind of left it there. Rishi was working with Jagi D, obviously a Punjabi artist. He heard it. He was like, this is sick. Jump on it, bro. Yeah. He did his thing. Before you knew it, we had a song that no one had ever heard. And guess what?

• 38:35Speaker 02

  The people, the Asian culture at that time had all of their favorite music on one song. You had Punjabi, you had hip hop and you had R and B and you had this whole thing in one, in three minutes of one song. And for the first time ever, I think by three at that time, young dudes. Cause if you were like, listening to Punjabi music, they were like uncle ages. Do you know what I mean? You're listening to like, exactly. And you're listening to like, Mal Keown sing, but he's like fifty. All of a sudden, you've got these young girls and guys who are listening to people who look like them.

• 39:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 39:11Speaker 02

  Doing this stuff and that kind of, I think, was something that was brand new and it it just changed the game, man.

• 39:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, I I agree with that. Even when you see that new artist, like, I remember, yeah, the first time I ever heard a Drake song.

• 39:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 39:24Jay Shetty?

  Right, like, early mixtapes, like, you were like, who's this guy who can sing and rap? And do his own thing. Now, I know that today, like, you know, Drake's gone on to just do hit after hit after hit and all the rest of it. And I think sometimes he gets a hard time where people are like, oh, yeah, he just makes good. And I'm like, well, if you think about it, when he started, he was probably the only, like, real rapper that also did that, like, was able to mix the two. And I've always, I've always loved his music, but to me as well, it was that same thing where it's like, he was putting together two things that felt natural to him in his own way. Like, he could sing really high notes and then put in like a rap verse.

• 40:01Speaker 02

  And go hard on a, on a beat.

• 40:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly. He could do both.

• 40:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:04Jay Shetty?

  And it was just exciting. It was, to me, it's always been exciting when people are not kind of imprisoned and limited by a box. And it's what you're saying about even the entrepreneur and the musician in you and allowing yourself. Like, I think, I think today we've become so much better at recognizing that people are multi hyphenates. Like, you know that Rihanna can have a music career and be a fashion icon, right? You know that an actress can also have an amazing company. You know that.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 40:34Jay Shetty?

  Ryan Reynolds can also sell an alcohol or whatever it may be. But, you know, there's, there's so many different ways of doing that. He can own a football team like Rexham and.

• 40:43Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 40:44Jay Shetty?

  But in the beginning, it was like, no, you're an actor. Just, just be an actor, honor that.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  Do that. And sometimes, oh, actually, you do this role, you're only doing comedies. And then an actor could be like, dude.

• 40:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 40:55Speaker 02

  I know I'm good at comedy, but like, give me a drama, man. And just give me a shot.

• 40:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 41:00Speaker 02

  Let me show those skills, right?

• 41:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  So, so for me, it was always like, okay, I do music, but like.

• 41:06Speaker 02

  Don't tell me I can only do these records. I can only sing these kind of songs. I can only, you know, sing. I can't bust into a rap randomly. So I was, so that always confused me because I was like, hold on a second. This is my artistic expression. So surely it should just be, why do, why aren't I just allowed to do who I am? Because otherwise then it's not Jay Sean. It's Jay Sean with other people in his ear. Then it's not just Drake. It's Drake with other people in his ear. So I think the reason why people fall in love with an artist is because that person has something unique to share with the world, right? You know, like if you're in a certain mood,

• 41:48Speaker 02

  you're gonna be like, man, I don't know, man. I feel like I put on some Adele right now or something. Why? Because you know what Adele offers. You know what her music, how it makes you feel.

• 42:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:01Speaker 02

  As opposed to just a random singer who's got a beautiful voice.

• 42:05Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no, you reminded me of when Matthew McConaughey came on the podcast, he talked about how he was known as the rom com guy. So he was doing How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days. He was doing all those types of movies and he was amazing at it. It was like Ghosts of Girlfriend's Past and like, he was that guy. He was like the hot heartthrob that, you know, that that holds those movies. And he said he had to take a two year break from making movies to shift his brand to be able to do movies like The Lincoln Lawyer, later on Dallas Buyers Club, which he won the award for. And it's like, he literally didn't make movies for two years and he was getting paid like 15 million to do a rom com.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  Right.

• 42:45Jay Shetty?

  And he said for two years, he didn't do anything because that was his brand. And he wanted to do more serious roles. He wanted to do roles that he cared about. And, and it took him saying no for two years. And that's a lot of like, you know,

• 42:57Speaker 02

  It is.

• 42:57Jay Shetty?

  It's, it's, it's amazing to think that people who've made pivots in their career. Have had to kind of have these very like interesting transition periods.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:07Jay Shetty?

  What was it like? What's the biggest difference between the UK and the US music scene? Because I think you have that, you know, you have that as a unique experience. There's a few of you, right? There's you and then like more recently, obviously people like Ed Sheeran, Adele. Like there's, there's few people who've been able to be successful in both.

• 43:21Speaker 02

  I'll tell you a funny thing, right? So obviously at the time, pre 2009, I was lucky enough to have garnered myself a worldwide fan base, excluding, I thought, excluding America. I just thought, oh, there's no way America knows my music. And that's because America has, let's be honest, they have the creme de la creme of everything. If you think of any of the bigger stars, they're usually American, whether they're Hollywood stars, you know.

• 43:45Jay Shetty?

  Now they're all Canadian.

• 43:46Speaker 02

  They're all from specifically Toronto.

• 43:49Jay Shetty?

  Bieber.

• 43:50Speaker 02

  Right. But at the time, so when we were in, that's why when we were in London, London is a small island. And so what happens is sometimes you can get, I, I, I refer to it as small island syndrome. You can walk around your little place and feel like the, the big shot. You're like, yeah, man, I'm in Dagnum, bro. People know me in here, mate. Yeah, I'm Leicester, bro. People know me here. Boy, I'm a Scotland man. People know me in Scotland, bro. Okay, cool. That's amazing and great. And if you can have a career there and you're happy with that, that's great. I always, again, going back to me being a person who's highly driven, I would always say, take me somewhere where no one knows me. I want to win them over. Take me somewhere.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  Take me anywhere where nobody knows me and let me see if I can win them over. And that has always been something that's very dear to me, even when it comes to shows, any show. Like you could do a corporate gig, right? And they have it and it's like, people will be like, oh, they want you for the show. I'll be like, okay, cool. What's the demographic? This is X, Y, Z. I, I don't then think, okay, I'm just going to sing X, Y, Z song. I go, how can I connect with them? What, what am I going to be able to, on what level? And then win them over so that then they, they can go, you know what? I didn't actually know Jay Sean before or even like his music, but I liked the dude.

• 45:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 45:10Speaker 02

  I liked the guy. I connected with him and he was fun on stage and he was funny and he was endearing. And then he actually rocked the crowd and now all of a sudden you won them over.

• 45:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  So when it came to America, I took that same approach. I was, I remember distinctly being at passport control. And I was going to go and sign with cash money. That's why I was going over there. And it was a big day for me and I was super excited. I was like, I can't believe this, man. About to get a record deal in America. But I went knowing that if I don't succeed, at least I have everything else that I've worked hard for. And if I do succeed, man, that's only a bonus now. That's can only be even better. But I'm excited. I'm a bit gassed up, right?

• 45:54Jay Shetty?

  I'm a boss, man. This is like little Wayne. It's like, it's like, oh my gosh.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  Big deal.

• 46:00Jay Shetty?

  Young money, cash money records. It's like, yeah.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  Right. So then I'm there at passport control and the guy goes, you know how they are in America? Sometimes they're like, what is the purpose of your?

• 46:10Jay Shetty?

  Oh gosh, I still get it every time.

• 46:12Speaker 02

  You get nervous, isn't it?

• 46:13Jay Shetty?

  I get so nervous, man. I've had so many years.

• 46:16Speaker 02

  And he's like, what is the purpose of your visits in the United States? I was like, so here's me now, I look slightly cocky. I go, be honest with you, mate, about to sign a big record deal. And he goes, yeah? He goes, what's your name? And I go, Jay Sean. And he goes, I haven't heard of you. So now I know I've got work to do. Right on my entry to this country, the good Lord has gone, relax, mate, calm your ego. There's work to be done. And it was through that one guy, that immigration officer who looked me dead in the eye and said, so what? I haven't heard of you. And I thought, all right, let's do this.

• 46:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  Let's work. Let's work.

• 46:54Jay Shetty?

  It's always the immigration officers that don't recognize anyone, man. I get the same thing every time.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  The best. But I love that. And bro, it humbled me in a split second. And I'm not saying I had a big head either, but if I was to be cocky about my venture in the United States, I learnt right there and then, bro, prove yourself again. And that's what I had to do from scratch.

• 47:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And it's such a great mindset to have because you could have had that interaction and gone, well, you should know me, right? You could do that.

• 47:24Speaker 02

  Or you will know me. Get cocky, right?

• 47:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you will know me. And it's just, it's so interesting because I feel like that is just never a satisfying way to live. That's what I've discovered, like the, the idea of thinking you're at the top of the mountain or that you're doing things, it's the same thing as you said earlier, like when you're making music from love, passion and excitement. I feel like if you're doing something because of revenge, because of proving someone wrong, because of I'll show you, because I'll see you at the top, like when you do things with that energy, even if and when you make it, it never fulfills you because that person may not have the reaction you want them to have.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  In the first place.

• 48:06Jay Shetty?

  That person would still be like, yeah, I don't listen to your music, or I don't like your music. Or when you go up to that guy and go, oh, wait, did you hear me now? I'm number one billboard. And they go, yeah, my girlfriend didn't like it.

• 48:15Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 48:16Jay Shetty?

  It's like, yeah, it still doesn't.

• 48:18Speaker 02

  It won't feel you, bro. And it's a very, very good point. And I think that it's, it's such an important point because for me, twenty years of work. Okay, what have I learned? What are my lessons? I've been around the world, we were calculating this, I'm coming up to a million miles just on one airline.

• 48:40Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 48:40Speaker 02

  Just on one airline.

• 48:41Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 48:42Speaker 02

  So I've definitely done way more. Must have been around the world fifty times, at least.

• 48:46Jay Shetty?

  Fifty?

• 48:46Speaker 02

  In terms of mileage, yeah, easily. That means I have had experiences after experience, after experience, after experience, after experience. Some amazing, some horrible. Some that can make you feel like you're on top of the world and some that can pull you into a dark place. And you don't even want to talk to anyone, depressed, crying. So where's that safe place? Where's the place where you're just okay, man? I'm all right with this. I'm in this industry and it can either make me or break me, or it can do neither, or I can just have a great time while I'm here. Make people happy, do shit that I love, take care of my family, earn a good living.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  And it all comes down to exactly what you just said. Why are you doing this? If I was, for the rest of my career, only driven.

• 49:38Speaker 02

  To write songs and perform and record to beat the big monster that is down. If that was my only incentive, gotta beat down, gotta beat down, I gotta top that. I am setting myself up for failure, A, and definitely a ton of anxiety, a ton of like, bad feelings and, and, and feelings that just aren't on a vibe at all because I'm doing it all for the wrong reasons. If I then go, if I switch my mentality and go, man, how lucky were you? How blessed were you to be able to have written that beautiful unicorn of a song?

• 50:19Speaker 02

  That made so many people happy, that really did break a lot of records and changed your life, gave you a life, man. Gave you a life. Put that in your back pocket and be grateful and say, thank you. That was wicked. That was amazing. Now let's go on and write stuff that you enjoy, that you love, that perhaps your fans might connect to. But if I was to make the metric of my happiness, chart positions, comments, likes, followers, I'm setting myself up for failure because I can't control any of those things at all. The only thing I can control is the music that I write, the music that I record, the music I put into this world,

• 51:01Speaker 02

  the way I interact with people when I'm on stage, make them feel, those are the things I can control. And so therefore my happiness hopefully will be in a safe place. You know, because I'm not pinning it, I'm not rooting it in something that is so out of my control.

• 51:16Jay Shetty?

  There's this quote that I heard that someone said that, you know, at one point I had to stop being a hit machine and go back to being an artist. And, and I love that idea, but I feel every artist goes through this series of phases where you start as a pure artist, you start with pure creativity and pure passion. And then in the scaling of a business of having team members or whatever it is, you become a hit machine and you kind of try and, like you said, you try and like mathem- Figure out the equation. You may kind of have some hits, you may not have some hits, but you have this. And either way, whether you've had it or whether you haven't, you've become unfulfilled.

• 51:58Jay Shetty?

  And that's what happens. So externally, even if this person is having all the number ones, they're still feeling internally fulfilled because it doesn't link back to that pure artistry that they started with.

• 52:08Speaker 02

  Why you started doing it.

• 52:08Jay Shetty?

  And then they try go back there. Everyone goes back there. Everyone wants to go back there. Some people take thirty years. Some people do it in three years. I've met people at both ends of the spectrum who they made stuff they hated for thirty years. Some people gave up after three years and said, you know what? I'm going back to doing what I love.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 52:26Jay Shetty?

  And it's normal, like it's normal for everyone to have that. So.

• 52:29Speaker 02

  So true.

• 52:30Jay Shetty?

  It's so wonderful to hear you talk about it in that way because I think that. We had Rick Rubin here a few months ago and he was saying the same thing. He was just like you. He was saying the same thing you said. He was like, we're not, music isn't made formulaically. Like he was like, you're not trying to think what are people gonna love and so I'm gonna make it. And you know, to hear that across artists and musicians, different genres, different backgrounds. It speaks to a lot. When was your darkest time or when was a moment where you felt like you'd? You were just, this is not here.

• 53:02Speaker 02

  You know, it's so true, everything you're saying. Artists, we are, we exist in one of two states. We're either, you can't mess with me, I'm best, or I suck. Everyone hates me, I'm the worst, I should quit.

• 53:18Jay Shetty?

  I can relate.

• 53:20Speaker 02

  In between, the hardest place to be is, I'm alright. I'm an alright, I guess I'm an alright artist. Who wants to be, I'm an alright artist? Nobody. Yeah, how's it go? Ah, it's alright, man. Got cubs. Nobody wants that.

• 53:36Speaker 02

  So if you're not killing it, you're here. You I suck, I should quit, nobody likes me, people aren't listening to my music, they're listening to that person's music. So, of course, I've had those moments, not only have I had them epically in one particular point in my life, my whole journey, man, has been like, it's been like the Rocky story, which is why I'm so obsessed with Rocky.

• 54:01Jay Shetty?

  I love Rocky.

• 54:02Speaker 02

  Love Rocky, bro.

• 54:03Jay Shetty?

  The slide doc's out, I haven't.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  Oh, man, I watched it. I'm also obsessed with Sylvester Stallone.

• 54:08Jay Shetty?

  So am I.

• 54:09Speaker 02

  That dude, he's, he's so smart and I watched the, I watched it, I'm not gonna ruin it for you, but one thing I've always known for about Sylvester Stallone is that this guy bet on himself. That's the story we know, he bet on himself, didn't get cast in movies because of the way he looked, the way he spoke. So what did he do? He wrote roles for himself. What an amazing, what a genius thing to do. You're not gonna cast me, fine. And he bet on himself with Rocky. But he didn't win immediately in Rocky. But what, what that story tells me is, here's a guy, here's a guy, a bum, just a dude that no one pays attention to, but he's, he's still a human being. He, he symbolizes your average Joe. Your average Joe, who the world ain't

• 54:52Speaker 02

  really looking at. They don't really stop to notice him. But he has a secret dream. He has a little dream inside of him, you know what I mean? And then when he gets that opportunity, he goes for it because he's got A, nothing to lose, but B, he's all heart. He's all heart. And he's doing it from a place of love. He doesn't necessarily need that belt. He just loves A, the game, and B, I can't believe I got this opportunity, man, I'm gonna take this, I'm gonna take it with both my hands, not gonna let go. But then the Rocky saga, the storyline continues, the rise, and then the fall. And that's why he's, to me, he's such a great writer, is because I think he was simultaneously writing about what was going on in his life. From nobody to becoming the biggest star in Hollywood, to then maybe getting caught up in

• 55:37Speaker 02

  the game, losing your roots. Oh, now I'm not even speaking the same way. I don't walk the same way, talk the same way. I don't write the same way because now I'm a star and people are looking at me expecting different things. And my career was like that. When I started off, I just wrote from the heart, man. I wrote because Jay, Rishi, Rich and Jagi Dea coming through on a song?

• 55:59Speaker 02

  Who says that? Why are you calling your own names out on a song? Most songs are just like, hey girl, saw you from the last time we. It's an imaginary story about something.

• 56:08Jay Shetty?

  Now that you call it out.

• 56:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, this guy thinks it's okay on his first ever song to go.

• 56:15Jay Shetty?

  And it's part of the song. It's not the intro part. It's not like the yo. It's yeah, it's not, it's not that part. It's.

• 56:21Speaker 02

  It's the verse. It's the verse. Why? Young cockiness, fresh, fun, not even thinking about it, not studying other songs going, well, what are the, what kind of lyrics do they write? What are the big hits? I did it and it connected and it felt right and it worked. First album, I mean, you, you're familiar with.

• 56:40Jay Shetty?

  All of them. Yeah. I remember buying Me Against Myself on CD.

• 56:43Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 56:44Jay Shetty?

  Because I was so excited to look at the art.

• 56:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:46Jay Shetty?

  And I loved the idea because on the last track you had to wait like a few minutes and fast forward it to wait for like bonus material. I love those kind of like hidden things like, yeah, massive. Yeah.

• 56:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, and.

• 56:56Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. One of the greatest gifts we can give ourselves is the chance to step outside of our routine. Travel is a way of slowing us down and shifting our perspective. And with the Chase Sapphire Reserve card, every journey becomes even more rewarding. Earn four times the points on flights and hotels booked direct. Enjoy access to award winning airport lounges, three times the points on dining and reserve exclusive tables. Learn more at chase.com/sapphirereserve. Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank, NA member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Terms apply.

• 57:39Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. I know how important every hire is for a business. If you need to make the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed sponsored jobs helps find quality candidates when you need them most. You can reach who you need based on whatever criteria you're looking for, like skills, certifications, or location. In fact, people are finding quality hires on Indeed right now. In the minute I've been talking to you, companies like yours made 27 hires on Indeed, according to Indeed data worldwide. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast.

• 58:22Jay Shetty?

  That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. We talk a lot about intentional decision making, and that extends to the practical stuff too, like making sure your coverage actually works for your life. State Farm is there to meet you where you are, and they know how sweet it is to feel good about your decisions. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.

• 59:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, so Me Against Myself, why was it even called Me Against Myself? It was called Me Against Myself because, bro, in all honesty, truth be told, from the beginning of my career, I have been in this little bubble where I have been fighting myself the whole time. The rapper versus the singer. The R and B guy versus the pop guy. It's always been this duality of who is actually keeping it real and who's the one making the money? And, you know, up on the stages and are they the same person? Because the guy who's keeping it real was the rapper. He was the guy who was like, yo, you sold out, you're writing these fictional songs about, hey, baby girl this, baby girl that.

• 59:50Speaker 02

  And on the song, Me Against Myself, it's literally the rapper versus the singer. And the other part of this whole thing was it was me against everyone else in the music industry. Because at the time when I started, I didn't really know it know it, you know, but now we look back, I was really out there by myself as the only Asian kid in a sea of, and we're talking like with the mainstream artists now.

• 1:00:19Jay Shetty?

  And twenty years ago even more so.

• 1:00:20Speaker 02

  Twenty years ago. And it was only until I sort of really started coming across situations where I realized I am the odd one out. I am the fish out of water here. I'm the one that doesn't look like anybody else. It was very different. And, you know, for me, I felt like at that point, the only thing that was going to get me through all of this was by staying true to who I am. Right? So there's this, you know, song I wrote called Good Enough. So what I would do is I would, instead of screaming about it on interviews and ranting on about it and complaining about how difficult it is trying to break through and not having

• 1:01:01Speaker 02

  the same opportunities as other artists, I used to disguise my songs, my love songs. I used to, I used to write open letters to the music industry and disguise them as love songs. So there's a song on my first album on Me Against Myself, um, called Good Enough. And in the lyrics, you think he's talking about a girl who's not the same race as her. So like, he's dating a girl from a different race, but it's actually a letter, open letter to the music industry. And it says, it says, I've got my mother's skin. I've got my father's eyes. That's something that I can't deny, and that's nothing that I want to hide. And even though my roots come from the other side, they told me that they won't mind because I heard that love is blind. And then it says, how do I change a million minds in this lifetime?

• 1:01:46Speaker 02

  What is it I have to do? If I erase my history, what defines me? If I had to change my truth, would I be good enough for you? And really, it was about me talking to the music industry. Yeah. Saying like, I'm just like you. Why are you giving me a harder time, man? Listen to my music. Tell me if it fits in where it should fit in. So but when all that stuff started to happen, I went in a bit of a, it was hard for me. I went in like a little bit of a a dark place because I was like, this ain't, this was meant to be fun. This is meant to be my dream. And and now like I'm not getting the same opportunities and and I didn't know what to do about that. You know, when my first album, when they tried to take me on to the second album at Virgin,

• 1:02:30Speaker 02

  I realized that these people don't understand me. They don't understand my vision, my art. I'm gonna go step out. So any money that I had earned off that first album and touring, I invested in myself like Sylvester Stallone. Yeah. And that's where I did the My Own Way album, of course, why it's called My Own Way. On that album,

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  I remember leaving Virgin and at the time being told, don't worry, you're gonna get another record deal. You know, you've got all the success. You've got these chart hits. Of course, you're gonna get signed immediately. I was like, yeah, okay, good. I'll get signed to a label that understands me. Didn't happen. Didn't happen. And now I'm like, well, I had like four years in the game and that's it. Maybe I should have stayed with Virgin. Who else gets a major record deal and then walks away from it?

• 1:03:19Speaker 02

  And then I had to talk to my parents, tell them the situation. I've just given up a chance at being a doctor. I've had one album out, toured the world a little bit. Didn't really smash it though, did I? Like for the Indians around the world, yes, I smashed it. Course, they were like, first guy, our guy. But in terms of mainstream, they were kind of like, oh yeah, that guy had a couple of songs.

• 1:03:45Speaker 02

  So I remember being lost, really lost. And I pretended actually to my parents that I was off to the studio working on a new album. And there were times where I would get in my car and I would just drive around, park up somewhere and literally sit down in my car and go, and cry. On your own? On my own. And just cry because I was so lost and so scared. Here's a guy who had all the big dreams in the world, a guy who worked so hard at school, two degrees. I had to just really just sit there and think about. There has to be a reason. There has to be a reason that this gift was given to me,

• 1:04:30Speaker 02

  that this blessing was given to me to be able to try to fly the flag for us. What do I do? I can't just end here. Amazingly, as the universe would have it, about two weeks later, there was this event where I was in doing like a meet and greet. And this kid comes up to me and he's about sixteen, seventeen at the time, hands me a CD. And he goes, hey, man, I'm such a big fan. I make music. Please listen to it if you can. My contact details are on there. So yeah, cool, man. Now, look, when this happens, as you know, like sometimes we're like, yeah, bro, cool. But sometimes you get a hundred CDs. You don't get to listen to them all. On the way home, put it in the car, listening to it.

• 1:05:14Speaker 02

  I'm like, like this beat is insane. And I was like, holy, I'm calling this guy straight away. I picked him up, picked up the phone. I was like, where do you live? Where's your studio? He's like, Jason? I was like, yeah. He's like, bro, come on. I was like, no, I'm coming over now to your studio. And he had a studio in his garden shed in Slough.

• 1:05:39Speaker 02

  He had a studio in his garden shed in Slough, and this is a fan of mine. And I said, we're gonna work. He's like, dude, come on. I was like, I'm serious. And it was just me and him. And on that day, I wrote Write It with this kid who had just given me a demo CD.

• 1:05:57Jay Shetty?

  That's amazing.

• 1:05:57Speaker 02

  He had a dream. He had a lofty dream. He didn't know that I was also in a place in my life where I needed, I needed something. He needed something and I needed something. We both wanted to win. And that song was just sent, bro. And it changed everything. That song, obviously, is, as you know,

• 1:06:15Jay Shetty?

  I mean, I was about to say, on TikTok, that that song has had so many lives and so many edits and so many like, it's insane. It's crazy. Yeah.

• 1:06:24Speaker 02

  But I, and without having getting too heavy on the spiritual shit about it, I think it's because there is something special about that song. I think it's because that song, its very genesis came from a place of where I was at my lowest and needed so badly to be plucked out of this dark place. And I needed something. From up here, man. I needed something to lift me up. And that song not only just did that for me, it's kind of like a sacred song for me. You know, and it gave this kid a life. It gave him an entire career. One song.

• 1:07:00Speaker 02

  And then, fast forward 12 years later, it goes and gives another guy a life. Some random dude in Lithuania who's just like done a remix and put it on YouTube and then it goes on TikTok. This guy is now touring the world. Do you know what I mean? And it also like, you know, did pretty good for me during pandemic.

• 1:07:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:21Speaker 02

  A little nice little pocket change for me too. And it was like, you know, it's special. So there you go. That was my Rocky story, right?

• 1:07:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:29Speaker 02

  Then boom, down here in the dumps, back up.

• 1:07:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:32Speaker 02

  Now Ride It's Out, J. Sean version two's out. Shaved head, right? The spikes are gone, the shaved head. And all of a sudden, man, I got another shot at it.

• 1:07:40Jay Shetty?

  The reason why I love hearing it is because I remember like, I remember trying to figure out what had happened between the two albums too. And I remember like, as, as your fans were following, it was like, I can't remember, it was like, was it relentless or reckless?

• 1:07:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, relentless.

• 1:07:54Jay Shetty?

  Relentless, right? It was relentless. And it was like, yeah, you were seeing that shift and you never know what's going on on the other side. The best part about that story though, is the randomness and allowing the randomness. Because I think so often, as you become more successful, you become more closed. And you become more, oh, you're just a little kid. What do you have? And that ego, we've talked about ego a few times in this conversation. It just shows me again and again and again, the thing that gets in all of our ways is our ego. Ego stops you from being creative because you're scared of what your friends will think. That's ego. Ego stops you when you start thinking you're the man getting into America. And if you would have acted in that way back at that guy, but you, you were like, no, no, no, I'm gonna get better.

• 1:08:40Jay Shetty?

  I need more, I need to get more people to know my work. And then ego again could have stopped you from going, oh, he's a little kid. What does he know? I'm Jay Shone. Like, he's just, everyone gives me CDs. And it's so interesting just how we have to work against our ego constantly. And me against myself in and of itself is actually us against our ego on a daily basis. That's the real battle. The real battle is us against our ego.

• 1:09:05Speaker 02

  It really is. It's so true, man. I think, I think all of that ties in also, bro, to just keeping, not just keeping your eyes open, right? But keeping your mind open. And the thing is, I always look at it like this, man. Self-awareness is obviously something that you, of course, talk about a lot. And some people go their whole life, man.

• 1:09:25Jay Shetty?

  But not being self-aware.

• 1:09:27Speaker 02

  Okay, their whole life. I think very fortunately for myself, I got it quite early on, once I started this career. I kind of understood, again, just like standing out as the only brown dude, I was very self-aware, understood. Also, understanding that when I came across those problems and those obstacles, I realized very quickly that my sense of humor was able to get me out of them, rather than letting it destroy me. So rather than letting me go, when someone says something dumb or something stupid or insensitive or culturally inappropriate, instead of getting mad and causing an argument, I would use wit and intelligence to be able to get myself out of it. Then I realized what kind of person I was in this industry that I'm in. And this industry, you know, as you know, it can be, it can be very, very fake. It can be very, it's hard to find

• 1:10:12Speaker 02

  connections with certain people. But if you know who you are in that space, I think you're gonna just, you'll be okay through the highs and through the lows. Do you know what I mean?

• 1:10:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:22Speaker 02

  Um, but yeah, I love what, I love that you recognize that because it's, it's very true. If I wasn't open to the randomness and I wasn't open to the signs.

• 1:10:31Jay Shetty?

  You just miss out. And I think about that, right? Like, I think we all have to reflect on our own life and go. Where do we miss out on that randomness? Because we've started to think that things have to be formulaic or equations or perfectly fitting or coming from the right source. Like, sometimes, you know, right, like, we all think, oh, yeah, that business person will tell me the right thing. Or that individual, and it's like, well, no, they could be some random person in your family or your friends group who says one thing to you that actually shoots you off in an amazing direction. There was, I, I'm gonna give a shout, me and Jeremy had a call like this recently. So Jeremy said to me, he goes to me, he said to me, I just called, I called him randomly.

• 1:11:16Jay Shetty?

  I was on a drive and I hadn't caught up with him for a while, so I called up Jeremy. And we start having this phone call and I had no agenda, there was no plan. It was just catching up with the mate. And he said to me randomly, he goes, Jay, I can't wait till you start a school. And I was like, dude, what are you talking about?

• 1:11:33Speaker 02

  That's a very Jeremy thing to say.

• 1:11:34Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 1:11:35Speaker 02

  Huge dream.

• 1:11:36Jay Shetty?

  And I was like, first of all, Jeremy, I don't have kids, so I don't even know what school feels like for kids. Second of all, I feel really unqualified to start a school. I think it's actually very, there needs to be a lot of research, there needs to be a lot of understanding. Like, dealing with kids' minds should be dealt with extremely delicately and thoughtfully. I don't think everyone should start schools. Thirdly, like, sure, it's a nice idea, but like, it's so, like, I, I wouldn't, I've never even thought of that as even a concept in my life.

• 1:12:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:12:05Jay Shetty?

  But I answered all of that and then immediately something came to my mind. I'd love to go and study the best schools on the planet. And I was like, I would love to actually go and understand, not because I want to start a school, but because I would love to understand the human mind and what we're messing up that's creating kids who cause issues in the world versus kids that get it right. Now, there's lots of studies and research, but I would actually love to go and sit with parents and teachers. And I came back to my team the next day, I was like, guys, I have to go and do this and we have to document it. And we have to, because, not because I think there's content in it, not because, I don't even know what I do with it. I just know that I would be fascinated if, over the next five years, I could understand more deeply how to be. Build more compassionate children, not because I want to start a school.

• 1:12:51Speaker 02

  Right, but that thought wasn't even in your head until this random conversation.

• 1:12:54Jay Shetty?

  This random conversation that my mate just said, I could be like, what does Jeremy know?

• 1:12:57Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 1:12:58Jay Shetty?

  I've got a content, you know, I've got stuff going on, like, you know, he's nice, he thinks he wants me to start a school, but like, that's it. But really, it sparked like genuinely, I can't tell you how much that idea is like.

• 1:13:09Speaker 02

  Lit you up.

• 1:13:09Jay Shetty?

  Captivated me because I'm like, yeah, you know, I'd love to know how we build compassionate, empowered, confident children who change the world. I would love to understand that on a very deep intimate and personal level. And so I started researching like, where are the best schools in the world? And like, what are the schools that make the most creative kids? What are the schools that make the most this kids? So I'm like, I've got to go to the school in Spain, I've got to go to this, and I was like, amazing, travel now feels alive again.

• 1:13:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:13:36Jay Shetty?

  It's not like, oh, I've got to jump on the plane to do some work. It's like.

• 1:13:40Speaker 02

  And it's for a purpose and it's fun, it's something fun. And I think really what you're on to there, bro, is, is it's very easy to like, sort of become complacent as well. Like you go, this is what I do. Ah, great. Studio at this time, I write a song. Great. Blah, blah, blah. When do you find out, if we've got, if we're lucky enough to have another forty, fifty years on this earth, right? What's going to light us up, that whole journey? What's, and I think about that constantly. If I've already done this much, I've been lucky enough, blessed enough to have twenty years in the music industry. What am I going to do for the rest of my life? What's going to light me up? What, can I just going to retire? I'm just going to sit there and, oh, lovely, I've got my kids, I've got my family, my wife. That's lovely, it's beautiful, but I'm not like that. I'm, I, I need something to fire me up.

• 1:14:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:26Speaker 02

  Do you know what I mean? Which is like I said, why I did this thing, all of these different companies that, that I've created. But the biggest thing now that really lights me up, Jay, is seeing what's happening with this new generation of Asian artists.

• 1:14:40Jay Shetty?

  I was about to ask you about that.

• 1:14:41Speaker 02

  It really is. It's crazy, man. I, I am, as you probably know, haven't done an album for a long time, okay?

• 1:14:50Speaker 02

  A lot of people, yeah, man, when are you gonna do another album? And you know what my answer always was? There's what I said, honestly, is what I used to say. Nobody cares about an album anymore. They just want music, content. If you, let's say your favorite artist, let's just say Drake, for example. Let's just say you're waiting for a Drake album. And it's like, all right, guys, I'm gonna be back in three years. I'm gonna just work really hard on this. In this day and age that we're in with our attention spans, ain't no one waiting three years, bro. No one's waiting, which is why he could churn one out a year, clearly, but that's Drake. Um, but people don't wanna wait around. So I used to just said, I said, forget album, that model is old. It's an old notion. I'll just keep giving you music. I'll just keep putting, putting it up. It's on my Spotify, it's on my Apple Music.

• 1:15:35Speaker 02

  And I did that consistently for years. And through doing that, I sort of like, you know, just spend a lot of time on these streaming platforms. I started discovering all this music, which to me was reminiscent of what me, Rishi and Jagi were doing 20 years ago. So all of a sudden you had these kids from India singing in Punjabi, but they're singing over like a drill beat. And there's like an English vocal on there from some random artists. And I was like, this fusion stuff is happening again, except this time it's happening with these 20 year old kids who are living in India, who have basically grown up with access to the internet. From the moment they're born, they got this device.

• 1:16:18Speaker 02

  So yeah, of course, they're listening to Bollywood and they're listening to all this stuff. But they're also listening to Travis Scott. Yeah. And they're listening to, you know, Eminem, Rihanna, whatever it is. So that was us 20 years ago. And I, when I tell you something happened inside me, it just started bubbling. I was like, I need to get in front of these kids. I need to soak up their energies, that youthful energy, that excitement, because they're not jaded. Yeah. They're not, they haven't even stepped into the industry yet. They're just kids having fun. That's who I was 20 years ago. And it lit me up. And I said to Jeremy, and of course it was the best news he ever heard. I was like, Jeremy, that's it, decided, man. He was like, you're, you're what? An album. I was like, yep, and we're going to India, that's where we're doing it.

• 1:17:03Speaker 02

  He's like, great, I've never, never been to India. I was like, oh, this is gonna be fun for you, bro. So we did, we went to India this year and I recorded three quarters of my album in India. For these guys, these immensely talented kids, whose faces were just lit up from music. There was no journey.

• 1:17:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:24Speaker 02

  They hadn't even been on a journey yet. There were no obstacles. There was no problems. There were no highs and lows. It was just love for music.

• 1:17:32Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 1:17:33Speaker 02

  And this album for me now, I'm so excited about it because again, it came from a place of joy and excitement. You know what I mean?

• 1:17:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's so, it's so interesting how like, even that with the, going back to your Rocky story example. There's Rocky V where he trains Tommy Gunn.

• 1:17:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:54Jay Shetty?

  And it's like that whole feeling of he gets his enthusiasm back.

• 1:17:57Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:17:58Jay Shetty?

  Because he's back in there. He's with a young guy who reminds him of himself.

• 1:18:02Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:18:02Jay Shetty?

  Again, there's such a need for us to always go and be with the beginner again and go to the source again. And we miss out on that in life because the higher you get.

• 1:18:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:12Jay Shetty?

  Again, less randomness.

• 1:18:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:14Jay Shetty?

  Means you spend time with the same people. You're not spending time with the person who's at the grassroots, who's, who's got their finger on the pulse.

• 1:18:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:22Jay Shetty?

  And all of a sudden, again, you're disconnected.

• 1:18:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're disconnected.

• 1:18:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, completely disconnected.

• 1:18:26Speaker 02

  And that's so right, man. I, I felt myself going, I felt like through, through my journey and through 20 years. You know, what's really interesting is that it's very easy to age yourself out the game, right? It is. And, and you know, I think it's funny, right? I don't know if you've ever, if any of the other artists who you've had on your podcast have ever talked about this. Um, ageism is a funny thing in the music industry.

• 1:18:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I don't think we have.

• 1:18:50Speaker 02

  In the music industry is weird, right? Like if you're an actor.

• 1:18:53Jay Shetty?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:18:53Speaker 02

  It's brilliant. You just get to play older roles.

• 1:18:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:56Speaker 02

  And sometimes they become even better because they've been active for so many years and now, right?

• 1:19:00Jay Shetty?

  Well, now I feel like most, like ma- the main actors like in movies are 50 years old.

• 1:19:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:19:05Jay Shetty?

  Like, that's like the standard age, if you actually check their ages.

• 1:19:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's really interesting. So in a way, the more time you spend there, the more years you put into that craft will actually pay off. I mean, let's say if I was a doctor right now, I'd probably be a consultant within a few years. The more years you put in, you step up the ladder. And whereas with music, it's like the more years you put in, it's like you're ending, you're going closer towards the finish line. And they're like, come on, mate, enough now, get off stage. No one wants to see a fifty year old dancing around, right? And it's a very weird thing. If, again, if I didn't have a sense of humor about that, I could be like, who are you to tell me when to stop working? Who are you to tell me I'm too old to be on that stage? Who are you to tell me that I have not done anything great since that song or this song?

• 1:19:52Speaker 02

  But I do understand. I do understand. It's kind of awkward and cringe worthy at some point. If you see some people who aren't self-aware enough to understand that, bro, maybe you shouldn't be dancing right now. Go and sit on a stool.

• 1:20:07Speaker 02

  Make the song acoustic and let's just get that audience.

• 1:20:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Being able to let go of a former identity that worked, yeah.

• 1:20:17Speaker 02

  That's right. That's so interesting. And the thing is, quite often, we're frozen in time.

• 1:20:22Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:22Speaker 02

  I'm frozen in time. On those plaques in my house and in Jeremy's house, there's a baby face Jay Sean. And I look at him and I see that young boy and I see what he's achieved and I'm proud of him. But I'm also very aware that maybe I don't want to keep doing this ten years down the line. Who knows? I mean, truth be told, I'm sure Snoop and all these guys said that they wouldn't be rapping.

• 1:20:47Jay Shetty?

  I, I feel like your favorite artists redoing songs that are either nostalgic. Like, I think nostalgia is such a big part of music, right?

• 1:20:55Speaker 02

  Of course it is.

• 1:20:56Jay Shetty?

  You listen to music to feel that way again, to reconnect. Like, for me, with Usher too, I don't think Usher's made a load of new music recently. But it's like, to me, when he did You Remind Me, obviously, and there was this scene in the You Remind Me video. Where the song shuts off, but he's on that silhouette of that. You know which one I'm talking about, right?

• 1:21:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:21:13Jay Shetty?

  The sun's in the background and he did that on stage. And for me, I was just like, that's all I wanna see because to me, it's like, that is exactly where I was at 16. I remember trying to do the moves and failing. And, and, and I still fail at this.

• 1:21:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, why do you think I don't dance, mate?

• 1:21:28Jay Shetty?

  But it, but it, that's the thing. And it's like, if Eminem picks up a mic ever, I will be there. I will just sit and watch. I mean, I mean, watching Beckham in his documentary take free kicks. I happily watch David Beckham play football any day of the week because there's, there's a feeling there that you'll never get. Because nostalgia is built that way. Nostalgia will never change. Like, if you had a positive experience watching Rocky, I can still watch Rocky because me and my dad used to watch Rocky together. So it will never, Rocky will never, ever be old or boring for me. Because, you know, I've watched Rocky a million times.

• 1:22:01Speaker 02

  Bro, I know every word of all of them, even Rocky V, even though they say it's the bad one, I still love it.

• 1:22:06Jay Shetty?

  I love Rocky V, I love it.

• 1:22:08Speaker 02

  Right? But, bro, you, you bring up such a good point. It's such a true point. Yeah. Which is why, I mean, if you go to Vegas, why, why all of the biggest acts are nostalgia acts? But they put you in a place where you just feel, they transport you back in time. What can ever transport you back in time is, as, as well as music does.

• 1:22:26Jay Shetty?

  Totally, nothing.

• 1:22:26Speaker 02

  You know where you were, what you were wearing, what girl you were dating. You know all of that stuff. You know, when you listen to a song, you know where you, and it's, it's a beautiful thing. But it's really funny. You reminded me of, of something when you said about the, the Rocky thing, right? And you were saying, again, just to go, to go back to that. The other day when I was watching a docu, you know, his documentary, then I'm not, it's not gonna spoil anything for you. There's some of the scenes are in his house in LA. You've probably been to his house.

• 1:22:53Jay Shetty?

  I haven't, I haven't. I've only met him once and he was amazing.

• 1:22:55Speaker 02

  Dude.

• 1:22:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I've only met him once and he's amazing, but it wasn't at his house.

• 1:22:58Speaker 02

  I hope, I'm so glad he lived up to what you wanted him to be.

• 1:23:01Jay Shetty?

  He was awesome, yeah.

• 1:23:02Speaker 02

  But here's a guy who's been acting for, what, 50 years now? 50. 50 years in the game. And what was his biggest breakthrough hit? Rocky. Rocky, one. Biggest breakthrough hit. But then 50 years of more films. Now. If Sylvester Stallone is walking down Sunset Boulevard and me and my mates or whoever was there and they saw him, oh my god. Or just any person sees him, what do you think he hears every day of his life? Yo Adrian, you're Rocky, right? That's what we do. Now, he could take that in one of two ways, couldn't he?

• 1:23:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:39Speaker 02

  He could either go, shut up, I've done like a hundred films. Why do you keep going back to Rocky?

• 1:23:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:44Speaker 02

  Or he could go, yo.

• 1:23:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:46Speaker 02

  I get it, because I love Rocky too.

• 1:23:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:49Speaker 02

  And Rocky, for me, changed my life and I know you guys love Rocky.

• 1:23:53Jay Shetty?

  Totally.

• 1:23:53Speaker 02

  And he took Rocky, his baby that changed his whole life, and instead of rejecting it and going, you remind me of the fact that maybe I've never topped you. Instead of doing that, he's like, come here, I'll put a massive statue of myself as Rocky in my swimming pool.

• 1:24:11Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:11Speaker 02

  In my house and I will have all the Rocky memorabilia all around my house and I will embrace you and I will be grateful for you.

• 1:24:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:20Speaker 02

  And that, I really love that because I think the problem as artists is that sometimes we wanna, when we do a show, right? People are waiting, man, you go see Michael Jackson, it's Michael Jackson. He has some of the biggest, best songs on planet earth, one of the biggest pop stars that ever lived. What are people waiting for?

• 1:24:41Speaker 02

  And you wanna see him do his dance and moonwalk.

• 1:24:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:45Speaker 02

  And he's probably like, oh, Michael Jackson. And that's what you're waiting for, Billie Jean?

• 1:24:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:51Speaker 02

  Oh, great.

• 1:24:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:52Speaker 02

  Of course they are, because that's why they fell in love with him and that's why they fell in love with Rocky. And they're the people who, for me, in America, man, they fell in love with down. So when I do my shows and stuff like that, whatever it is, even if I've got new songs, I'm not turning my concert into me. I'm not turning it into, hey, guys, I know that you, loads of songs that you guys wanna hear, but I'm actually gonna spend the next forty five minutes singing my brand new album. I'm not doing it. They don't care, because they don't know it. The show's for them.

• 1:25:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:20Speaker 02

  Right?

• 1:25:21Jay Shetty?

  It's such a good point and I love this idea of, you know, every, we all, and whether it's age, whether it's time, whether it's changes in life, there is a part of your identity where you have to shed, you have to let go, like, everyone has to do that. And what's amazing is I actually saw what you just said you don't do happen recently. I won't name the artist, I'll tell you afterwards. I'll tell you afterwards.

• 1:25:42Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:25:42Jay Shetty?

  So comes on stage and. We're waiting for this song, right? Waiting and he's the first act before the main stage. But it's still an artist that I love. And I'm waiting for the song. The beat comes on and we're all there and yes, like me and Radhi and our friends that we went with, really excited. And then 10 seconds into the track, they cut the beat and he goes, "You think I'm gonna do that here?" He goes, "You think I'm gonna give you that whole song?" He goes, "Oh, 30 years of songs to give you." And then he goes, "Place all these songs that we didn't recognize." And he actually did that and it was like, I was like, "You just took away my moment, bro." Like, "I wanted you to do that song." That's right. Not because I'm limiting you, not because I think you have no other hits. You actually are really talented.

• 1:26:25Jay Shetty?

  But that song is so special and iconic. That I need to hear it. You need to hear it. And I felt like 10 seconds of it was all he gave us and then he never went back to it. And I thought, "Oh, maybe he gave it 10 seconds, he'll go back, set finished, didn't get it." You know, and that's exactly that feeling of like... It's our own stuff. But you're saying, "We're dealing with that." We're all dealing with that. We all have a trapped identity somewhere. Yeah. All of us have what you're saying somewhere. And somehow, we're actually mad at it. Right. And we're annoyed by it, rather than welcoming and embracing it. And I think about that, it's been 10 years since I left the monastery. I'm a very different, externally, a very different person today. I'm married, I have businesses, we have, you know, media, we change where we live, like so many things.

• 1:27:10Jay Shetty?

  But at my heart, I'm the same person. I'm a very, I'm different externally, my life has different things. Of course, I've changed, people change, there's parts of me that have changed. But I embrace that experience, it's a massive part of me. But I've found that whether you embrace or reject, people always have an issue with it. Because it doesn't make sense to them. If it doesn't fit into their version of how they perceive you. It's complicated and I think for me, I've learned to accept that I need to give myself permission to be who I am today. To be who I was 10 years ago and who I will be 10 years from now. And I promise you, it won't be the same. And I need to give myself permission to allow that. And I think we, when you see, like you said, when you see Sylvester Stallone, give himself permission.

• 1:27:54Jay Shetty?

  I was with, we had Arnold Schwarzenegger on the podcast.

• 1:27:56Speaker 02

  I know, I heard it.

• 1:27:57Jay Shetty?

  He's the same. He has, he has the original Terminator outfit in his place. He has Alien. He has like, he has everything and he loves it. Like he really loves it. And I love him for it because I'm like, yeah, bro, you do.

• 1:28:09Speaker 02

  You should be proud of yourself.

• 1:28:10Jay Shetty?

  Of course, like you crushed it and you're not trying, he's not trying to be the Terminator anymore. And he's not trying to be, but he loves it. He loves doing, we, one, uh, my social media manager asked him a question on the way out and they said, do you have any last words? And you're like, I'll be back. And I'm like, he loves it and I love, and I love it.

• 1:28:27Speaker 02

  Right. It's give them what they want.

• 1:28:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And I love him for it. And he's not, he's not disingenuous. He's not inauthentic. He's not stuck in the past. He's a really, he was great to chat to. And so, yeah, man, all these people we're talking about, but Jay, I could talk to for hours.

• 1:28:41Speaker 02

  I know, man. I think we have been.

• 1:28:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, we have been. Uh, I could genuinely talk to you for hours and I love this. And I think we've, what I love about this conversation genuinely is I feel like we've drawn like you, you pulled out Rocky. And I think because we have that, we, we've drawn this really nice arc and narrative for people. And I hope everyone who's listening and watching this, I really hope that you find your own Rocky journey, like genuinely.

• 1:29:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:02Jay Shetty?

  In your own way, as you've seen mirrored in your life that you've shared so wonderfully today. But Jay, we end every episode with a final five or the fast five. Jay Sean, these are your fast five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

• 1:29:17Speaker 02

  Um, spend so much time on self-improvement that you have no time to criticize others.

• 1:29:22Jay Shetty?

  Love it. That is great advice and no one's ever said it on the show. Uh, second question, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

• 1:29:29Speaker 02

  It sounds so stupid, but it's like when you get the, the big money, um, nobody told me how to spend it or invest it.

• 1:29:35Jay Shetty?

  It's a great point.

• 1:29:36Speaker 02

  Right? And nobody told me any about that. Go buy some houses instead of like, you know, wasting on stuff like that. So I wish I actually got some, some advice on, on that, how to manage money.

• 1:29:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's good. That's good. I hope that, I hope all the, yeah, I hope everyone who's coming into new money is hearing that. Uh, question number three. What has been the gift of parenting that you didn't expect? Cause I know you're a great dad and.

• 1:30:00Speaker 02

  That is no longer, the world is no longer about me. My job is no longer about me. My life is no longer about me. It's all about, it's all for my kids. All of this now is for my kids. And it's the most beautiful thing is there's nothing more that grounding than, you know, than when you can be a pop star and famous around the world, but you come home and you're just daddy. It really is the cutest.

• 1:30:23Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Uh, question number four. What is the thing that surprised you most about the music industry in 20 years?

• 1:30:29Speaker 02

  Uh, how much, how much of a change technology would have on it? It's literally flipped it on its head. It is a totally different animal. There's a hundred and 20,000 new songs that come out every day now.

• 1:30:42Jay Shetty?

  Every day?

• 1:30:43Speaker 02

  Every day, a hundred and 20,000 new songs come out. So you imagine trying to put, get yours. It's just a needle in a haystack. And so many people can be independent. You could do whatever you want. Don't need that big record deal anymore. Although I do have a record company that I've started for South Asian talent. That, that's my way of giving back.

• 1:31:01Jay Shetty?

  I'm so excited about that, by the way.

• 1:31:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. And that's what I want to use all of my 20 years for, bro. All of my experience is to now pass it on to the next generation. So I have experienced it. I know all about it now. So now it's my turn to be able to help other people through it.

• 1:31:14Jay Shetty?

  I love that you're doing that as well because I think there's, there's such a need for that support. I, I was probably the two, you know, I was the guy watching jump off, but too scared to go on.

• 1:31:24Speaker 02

  Right. Well, that's it, bro. I know you love rapping. I might have to sign you, mate.

• 1:31:29Jay Shetty?

  No, I think the age thing, bro, I'm like, but, but no, the idea of like, there's just, I think there's a need. I'm so happy that you're doing that. Honestly, when I heard about that, that was amazing. And I'm so sad I couldn't come to the event. I was on a plane. I was, I was out of town. Fifth and final question. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

• 1:31:48Speaker 02

  The obvious thing for me to think that, that the world is missing right now is kindness. So what if there was a law that every person that you meet? You had to do a kind act. What if there was a law that you had to do one random act of kindness a day? And I think that could go on to, to, to make the world a better place.

• 1:32:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that'd be beautiful.

• 1:32:10Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 1:32:11Jay Shetty?

  I love it.

• 1:32:11Speaker 02

  Even if you didn't want to do it, if it was a law and you knew you had to do a random act of kindness for somebody, that could have a knock on effect.

• 1:32:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, because it would make you do it even end of the day, like you have to figure it out.

• 1:32:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:21Jay Shetty?

  I love it. Jay Sean, everyone. I'm so grateful, Jay. Thank you so much for coming on.

• 1:32:24Speaker 02

  Thank you, brother. Thank you for having me.

• 1:32:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, this was so much fun.

• 1:32:28Speaker 02

  You're right. I knew it would be. I knew we'd be yapping on for hours. I don't even know how long.

• 1:32:31Jay Shetty?

  I don't know. Yeah, I'll have to ask these guys, but no, that was awesome, man.

• 1:32:34Speaker 02

  Thank you, brother.

• 1:32:34Jay Shetty?

  So excited for people to continue to listen to your new album on Spotify. And where do you, where do you like, as in, actually, that's a great question. As a musician, where do you like people to discover your work now?

• 1:32:45Speaker 02

  Well, the streaming, obviously, the streaming platforms is where it's all at, right? So everybody knows that whatever they have a favorite streaming platform, Apple, whatever, whatever you like, it will obviously be up on there. But really also, I love being on TikTok, man.

• 1:32:56Jay Shetty?

  I know you do.

• 1:32:57Speaker 02

  You know, TikTok for me is actually a really cathartic tool because it allows me to, my, my silly goofy sense of humor. I allow, it allows me to just be a human being rather than just an artist. So yeah, if you guys want to just follow me on TikTok, it's just at Jay Sean and all of, all of the usual stuff. It's very easy. It's just at Jay Sean everywhere. So.

• 1:33:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, man.

• 1:33:16Speaker 02

  Brother, thank you.

• 1:33:17Jay Shetty?

  That was so much fun, man.

• 1:33:18Speaker 02

  My man.

• 1:33:18Jay Shetty?

  If you love this episode, you'll really enjoy my episode with Selena Gomez on befriending your inner critic and how to speak to yourself with more compassion.

• 1:33:29Speaker 04

  My fears are only going to continue to show me what I'm capable of. The more that I face my fears, the more that I feel I'm gaining strength and gaining wisdom and I just want to keep doing that.

• 1:33:42Speaker 03

  Mr. President, my company told me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me. Tom Cruise is.

• 1:33:52Speaker 05

  Digger got us into this mess and Digger's gonna dig us out. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 1:33:58Speaker 03

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You stop, you freeze to death. That's what.

• 1:34:03Speaker 05

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:34:06Speaker 03

  I'm not the first then.

• 1:34:07Speaker 05

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a middle without parent.

• 1:34:12Speaker 06

  Espolone Tequila. Balanced, delicious. 100% agave, 0% ego. Just add ice, lime, and your mouth. For a real margarita, ride the rooster.

• 1:34:22Speaker 03

  Espolone Tequila, 40% alcohol by volume, 80 proof. Copyright 2026, Compaq America, New York, New York. Drink responsibly.

• 1:34:29Speaker 07

  Every mile matters. Whether you're driving your dream car or your daily commuter, the Mobile One team knows that. It's why we created Mobile One Advanced Clean Motor Oil. It cleans your engine in one oil change and helps extend engine life, delivering performance, protection, and cleanliness for vehicles of all ages. All to help keep your engine running like new, whatever you're driving. Visit mobileone.com/advancedclean to learn more.