COVID-19 and the Future of Us

How does COVID-19 impact children? Neil deGrasse Tyson, co-host Paul Mecurio, and Dr. Irwin Redlener, MD, co-founder of the Children’s Health Fund and Director of the National Center for Disaster Preparedness, investigate the impact of the pandemic on our youth.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome to StarTalk. Your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now. This is StarTalk. And this is going to be a COVID-19 edition where we're going to explore the future of us. And just to be clear, since we're talking about COVID-19, we have to sort of put a date stamp on what's going on. So we are recording this on October 28th. So whatever we say that's true on October 28th, we discover things after this that

• 0:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  could affect the information that we share with you. So that's my, that's my entry disclaimer on what's going on, or rather my entry disclaimer. So my co-host for this episode, Paul Mecurio. Paul. Hey Neil, how are you? Dude, you're, you're special for this because you actually had COVID. Yes, I, I, yeah, you, you asked me to get it for the episode. Yes, thank you. You are, you are such a, such a role player in what we've got here. I'm committed and committed. You're committed. You, you have to be the virus. Yes, exactly. Be the ball. Be the virus. You're host of the Paul Mecurio Show, which I will never forgive you for just not being inventive there.

• 1:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I tried other things. I tried two chairs and a microphone. That didn't go. And it's three ferns and a, and a zinnia plant or whatever. Two kidneys and a thyroid. I tried everything. I gotta work on that. Yeah, keep working on it. I'll help you too. I like coming up with new, new names of things. Okay. But today we're talking about the future of humanity in the wake. Of COVID and and also we're going to focus on those who are most vulnerable in a societal way, which are the children, right? Even if children, they sort of get it, but it's not too serious and they bounce back. Society that is trying to take care of them and the

• 2:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  society they will inherit has been indelibly touched by this virus. And so, since neither you nor I, other than that you have become the virus for this episode, have special expertise, we go back to our man who's not only a specialist in diseases, he's a specialist in children who get disease, and it's Erwin Redliner. Dr. Erwin Redliner, welcome back to StarTalk.

• 2:39Irwin Redlener?

  Thanks, Dale. So happy to be with you and Paul.

• 2:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, let me get your resume just out there, just so people know. You're pediatrician, co-founder of the Children's Health Fund, and that's an international thing where you just, you're helping children no matter where they are and no matter their capacity to afford. And you're founding director of Columbia University's National Center for Disaster Preparedness. And we've had you on for that reason before, right?

• 3:05Irwin Redlener?

  Right.

• 3:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, thanks for having agreed to do that. You can check our archival episodes for that.

• 3:11Paul Mecurio?

  The show brings you on for all really depressing stuff.

• 3:14Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah, yeah. I've been called Dr. Doom by a couple of radio hosts.

• 3:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, man, man. Yeah, because he's, he's the, you know, for that other title he carries, that's like when the asteroid comes and takes out the grid and the, and the ability to respond with first responders. So, yeah, that's definitely the doom, doomsday dude, doomsday doctor. And you created the Pandemic Resource and Response Initiative at Columbia University. So what is that? And when did you create that?

• 3:45Irwin Redlener?

  Well, we created this back in April, when it was apparent that things were really going to hell here with, you know, especially in New York where we are, and the hospitals were completely overloaded, the fatality rates were through the roof, and sort of leading the world in death and destruction from this COVID virus. So, yeah, so we created it and what

• 4:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Leading the world because of our, we just didn't, we were ignorant and

• 4:12Irwin Redlener?

  Well, we

• 4:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And we didn't listen. We didn't listen.

• 4:17Irwin Redlener?

  Didn't listen to this time.

• 4:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Proactive action.

• 4:19Irwin Redlener?

  Right. And we actually performed way more inadequately than other peer countries. In fact, we just issued a report that said that if we had done what Japan or South Korea or Canada, Australia, or Germany had done, we could have saved 100, more than 100,000 lives. In fact, there were 217,000 fatalities from COVID a week ago Friday, which is the day we issued the report. And at that point, and there were 217,000 fatalities, if we had done what Canada had done in terms of early on aggressive interventions, we could have saved 130,000 lives, Neil, of that 217.

• 5:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so, so these countries, you choose these countries because they're, they are our sort of technological, social peer group. Right, right. Okay.

• 5:12Irwin Redlener?

  Exactly.

• 5:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's sensible to compare and economic especially. Right.

• 5:16Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah. And we should be leading the world. And we have the wherewithal, we have the scientific power. If we had done what South Korea and Japan had done, we would have had 200,000 lives saved. In other words, if we looked at the...

• 5:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Almost all of those who died.

• 5:33Irwin Redlener?

  Almost all. And this is a tragedy of just enormous proportions. And it should not have happened in the United States, but it did. And it's still happening because there's really not much that's changed in terms of our policies and leadership from the top.

• 5:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so, so I'm, I'm especially disappointed by this because I'm old enough, I'm older than both of you guys.

• 5:57Irwin Redlener?

  No, you're not. You're not even close.

• 6:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I remember, no, I grew up...

• 6:02Irwin Redlener?

  I could have adopted you. That's all.

• 6:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I changed your diapers.

• 6:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, I I just remember with all the problems we had, you know, with Vietnam and all the civil rights, we were still the model of the world for scientific advances and health advances. And and I expected, you know, we would see these film loops of other countries. Oh, look at them. They don't have an infrastructure. There was like, they would be the benefit of our pity, right? That we would then send money their way, help them, because we are exemplar. And now, you know, I feel bad about that. It's upside down. But the fact is, we are now, October 28, at a higher peak in new COVID cases in the United States than at any previous time in this pandemic. Is that correct, Irvin?

• 6:52Irwin Redlener?

  It is correct. And the trajectory is up. There's no, there's no suggestion that it's about to, you know, peak and then start coming down again. It's just up. And we've predicted for a long

• 7:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so in other words, it's not even leveling. It's just, it's aiming high.

• 7:08Irwin Redlener?

  Aiming high, aiming high. And that's a problem. And, you know, but we've been talking for a long time about, you know, the winter is coming, to borrow the Game of Thrones phrase.

• 7:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, that started there, yeah.

• 7:22Irwin Redlener?

  And it's, it's scary. It's, it's, there's no let up in sight. And there's no way to create a model, or there's no model that suggests that it is going to slow down anytime soon, in fact.

• 7:34Paul Mecurio?

  And you know, there's a great case study in Kansas, because the governor was going to mandate masks, and the Republican legislature then took the power away from the governor to do that, and said that the community, so of 120 counties, 100 said, no mandate on masks, 20 did. And in July, at that point, it went like this. In other words, those that mandated masks leveled off, and those 100 counties didn't spike, and they're continuing to spike.

• 8:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The data is incontrovertible. In fact, there's a compilation of this with regard to, actually, a red state, blue state compilation for what states are leading in new cases versus others that have leveled off. New York City, while our rates have gone up, they're still really low compared with most other states at this point.

• 8:22Irwin Redlener?

  That's right. That is right.

• 8:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Very proud of my fellow New Yorkers, because we're a crammy set of people, right? It's like, you know, oh, you can fit another 12 people in that elevator, keep them coming in, you know.

• 8:33Paul Mecurio?

  It's the only time you're justified to push an old lady out of an alley.

• 8:39Paul Mecurio?

  And I have done it now.

• 8:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, Erwin, I want to talk to you about your book.

• 8:43Irwin Redlener?

  Okay.

• 8:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Which is The Future of Us. I think it's the full title. What the Dreams of Children Mean in 21st Century America. So, Erwin, can you tell us a little bit about this book?

• 8:54Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah, so what was driving this book, Neil, was my observation personally. And I've taken care of very disadvantaged children as a pediatrician for decades. And there was one particular situation that stuck with me. It was in the early 90s. I was seeing a homeless, a child whose family was homeless. And this kid actually was separated from his family, extremely poor. He was in a foster home that we were providing care in. And we're using the mobile pediatric clinics with the children's cell phone. Long story short, nurse says this is a child named William, a 10-year-old, in the back examiner room with a mobile. And then I go in and I'm chatting with him. He's, he's very shy.

• 9:37Irwin Redlener?

  And I asked the question that often works, which is, what do you want to be when you grow up? And I was shocked.

• 9:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This was a homeless kid picked up by a foster family, being treated in your

• 9:49Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah.

• 9:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  free medical care

• 9:51Irwin Redlener?

  Exactly.

• 9:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  children's health fund truck.

• 9:53Irwin Redlener?

  Exactly. And he was incredibly poor and faced many adversities in his life. But when I asked him what he wanted to be when he grew up, he said, I want to be a paleontologist. I'm saying, really? What is a paleontology? He said, well, I want to look for dinosaur bones and whatever. I said, well, how did you, how did you learn about that? And he pulls out an old yellow article from the New York Times about paleontology. And he kept this in his pocket always. And this was his lifeline, his beacon of hope, that someday he would get out of whatever he was facing and be able to do that. And I looked at him, Neil, and I was

• 10:33Irwin Redlener?

  First of all, I was almost weeping, and I didn't weep, I was just very overwhelmed with sadness because I was realizing the chance of this kid becoming a paleontologist were essentially nil. And it was very distressing to me. And I happened to be speaking to a friend of mine, named Billy Shore, who started an anti-hunger organization. And I was telling him about this story. I was on one of his podcasts, and he said to me, "Well, my 10-year-old son," this is Billy saying, "wants to be a paleontologist." And we bought him, you know, a dozen books on the subject. We've taken him to the museums, and we flew him out to actually meet a very famous paleontologist.

• 11:14Irwin Redlener?

  And I'm saying, "Jesus, you know, this is the point. There are some children who have the support mechanisms from their family, from their parents, from their community, that allow them to pursue their dreams. And there's other children, like William, who have no chance." And the fact is that we have millions of children in America who face futures that are uncertain at best, and certainly, the ability for them to achieve their dreams is extremely limited.

• 11:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So even if you're selfish, even if you're selfish,

• 11:47Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah.

• 11:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  where you say, "I don't care about these other people, I only care about my people," there is still the loss to the country.

• 11:53Irwin Redlener?

  Terrible loss to the country.

• 11:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  For the intellectual capital that is not being nurtured.

• 11:58Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah.

• 11:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That could propel the nation back into its leadership status on so many of the frontiers that I grew up for which that was.

• 12:06Irwin Redlener?

  Right. And you made this point earlier, Neil, that we used to lead the world in innovation, in science, and whatever. We cannot afford to have so many children, or any children really, not fulfilling their potential. It is really, really a terrible reality that's facing America's future. And then the COVID pandemic has exacerbated all that. Because the kids that were behind the eight ball and in trouble before the pandemic ever appeared are in worse trouble now. In fact, calling them the pandemic generation. of children who have impossible uh catch-up missions now because you know a lot of them have had their education interrupted. Exactly the last thing we'd like to see happen.

• 12:51Irwin Redlener?

  This kid's now

• 12:52Paul Mecurio?

  Say, yeah, Save the Save the Children did a survey

• 12:55Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah.

• 12:55Paul Mecurio?

  uh in September of twenty-five thousand kids and less than one percent of the poor children interviewed had access to the internet versus nineteen percent who were non-poor. And they missed out on access to education, healthcare, food, and in the early developmental

• 13:10Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah.

• 13:10Paul Mecurio?

  years of

• 13:11Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah. So this is the, this is the point, Paul. Right. So we are creating a situation that we're gonna need something akin to a Marshall Plan uh to try to recover the potential and make up the lost education.

• 13:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, just remind me, the Marshall Plan was the rebuilding of Europe after the Second World War.

• 13:30Irwin Redlener?

  Exactly. Yeah.

• 13:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so this, this requires like broad cooperation.

• 13:35Irwin Redlener?

  Yes.

• 13:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And progressive visionary thinking.

• 13:38Irwin Redlener?

  And investment and commitment, right? So this is what we need, and I think we really need it badly. And so this book, The Future of Us, uh which has been updated to include uh issues about the pandemic specifically, but

• 13:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because it just came out in paperback now, right?

• 13:55Irwin Redlener?

  Yes.

• 13:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because it came out

• 13:56Irwin Redlener?

  Yes, an updated version in paperback.

• 13:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh huh.

• 13:59Irwin Redlener?

  It looks like this.

• 14:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, you just happen to have one.

• 14:03Irwin Redlener?

  Isn't that funny? So I'm gonna talk to you like that, but no. But, uh, yes, so this is the point here. I think we're gonna need a lot of work and a lot of commitment. But like you point out, you know, this is not just about a focus on our own children. That's easy for people like us. See, we got the wheel at all. We can do it. It's happens to be understanding with empathy that there are many, many children who don't have what we're able to give our children. And it's in our interest as well as theirs that we are able, that we need to, to help them redress the

• 14:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Even if you're feeling selfish. So, so you use the term that the children are the bellwethers of

• 14:45Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah.

• 14:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  any society. Could you just give me a little more detail about that?

• 14:48Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah. So what I mean by that is that if the children-

• 14:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, by the way, because we have a comedian with us.

• 14:55Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah.

• 14:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Paul, I've always thought of comedians as the bellwether of society. Because you guys see, you guys see stuff coming down and you comment, "Well, I know I hadn't thought about that. Oh, is that weird? That's how I behave. I didn't know that."

• 15:08Paul Mecurio?

  Why, why do you think society is in the shitter right now?

• 15:11Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah.

• 15:13Paul Mecurio?

  It's because of us.

• 15:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's because of comedians. So, so how do children plug into this?

• 15:18Irwin Redlener?

  So here's the point. So if you have a community, uh, that, where children are doing well, the majority of children are going to school, they're getting the healthcare they need, everything's fine, that portends well for the future. That's a society and a community that is trying to, uh, make sure that the next generation has the ability to take care of the problems and the challenges that we'll certainly be facing us from climate change, uh, to dealing with pandemics and so on. But if you have, on the other hand, a, a community where children are not doing well, where there's failures in school, where there's kids are not getting healthcare,

• 15:59Irwin Redlener?

  that is a very bad sign, and that's why I'm saying that children are the bellwethers. You can measure the success of society by how well our children are doing. And if they're doing poorly, watch out, because we are not going to be in the same position 20 years from now. We're already tumbling in terms of international leadership and inspiration. And it's just going to get a whole lot worse. And I, but I think, look, I have apologized multiple times to young people for the mess that we're leaving them. In fact, after a few glasses of wine, the first-

• 16:33Paul Mecurio?

  As you should, as you should. It is your fault.

• 16:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's all, it's all your fault.

• 16:36Irwin Redlener?

  I'm not getting, because this is a family podcast, so I'm not going to use the language I used in front of these 400 young people. But I apologize for the mess that we, that we're leaving them. And actually, it's true, you know, when I first started my career, it was in 1971 and 72, in rural Arkansas, running a, a government-funded clinic.

• 16:58Irwin Redlener?

  I was, you know, I said, I'm a child of the Kennedy and Johnson eras. And I thought 10 or 15 years from 1972, we would have ended child poverty. We would have ended racism. We would have ended the lack of access to healthcare. And I said, in 10 or 15 years, this will all be history. Here we are, half a century later, Neil and Pauline's like, what the hell did we do? Or didn't do to leave the country as much as it was back then?

• 17:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, Paul's right. It's just your fault.

• 17:28Irwin Redlener?

  It is my fault.

• 17:30Paul Mecurio?

  If you spend less time hawking your book.

• 17:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Hawking his book.

• 17:34Paul Mecurio?

  If you spend less time with, hey, hey, here's my book, everybody, and you know.

• 17:42Paul Mecurio?

  We get it, you have a book.

• 17:45Paul Mecurio?

  Kidding, kidding, kidding. But you know what? Can I just, can I just say something though? Like, this goes back to what we were talking about earlier. The problem with this thing is the elephant in the room. And it's not even the something you want to talk about. It's the politics. I hear all these goals and the politics is going to continue to get in the way.

• 18:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. However, however, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm going to quote my father, my late father, who said, it's not good enough to be right. You also have to be effective. So if you know the politics are going to get in the way, then you navigate that. Okay? You, so it's not like you, politics is in the way and you're in a prison. All right? We've lived, we still kind of live in a free society. And especially in modern times with access to the internet and podcasts and everything else. You are not, we are not powerless.

• 18:34Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah.

• 18:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, um, but, but let me ask you, did your book have, you have other anecdotes about, um, your encounters with children?

• 18:41Irwin Redlener?

  Sure. So there's another one of a, um, a kid I saw in a waiting room in the South Bronx. And I'm just, I was actually waiting for my wife. And I was sat down in the, in the waiting room with the kids and the families. And I see this little kid, a girl playing with a little, a little toy shark.

• 19:01Irwin Redlener?

  And I said, "What kind of fish is that?" It says, "It's a shark." And then she went and gave, this was, this kid was, I don't remember, twelve. And she went into this long explanation about different species of sharks. And it was, it's in the South Bronx, in the poorest zip, urban zip code in America. And this kid was clearly in love with the science of marine biology.

• 19:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so Paul, you know what he's really saying here? He said, "So with those two examples, we need more movies like Jaws and Jurassic Park." That's what you're saying here.

• 19:44Paul Mecurio?

  And he just happened to have written a script for both of those for sequels that he sold. He's just finishing stuff, that's all he's doing.

• 19:52Irwin Redlener?

  I didn't even think of that, that's good. But, you know, this kid had never been to an aquarium. In fact, most of the kids that I've talked about have never been to one of New York's museums, which are the envy of the world. And it's just incredible how much we are blockading children from the experiences and the opportunities to pursue their lives like our children are able to do. And it's a pathetic indictment, really, of us. So there were, and then there was a kid who was a phenomenal graphic artist. And I saw him in a homeless shelter. His name was Raymond. And he had this big, old, you know, backpack, Russack, whatever it's called. And I said, "What's in there?"

• 20:36Irwin Redlener?

  He said, "Oh, just my artwork." And he started showing me, drawing after drawing, he had done. He carries it around with him because wherever you-

• 20:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If you're homeless, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta move around with it.

• 20:48Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah, he's gotta take, because he didn't trust leaving at any place. And it was unbelievable. And this kid was in a, I saw him in a shelter in Brooklyn. And he had also never been to an art museum in New York City. It's astounding. So this is the, this is the problem. And I was looking at it at a micro level, and then the book goes into, well, what's the big picture here? And it's unfortunate, but I also would say- There's optimism to be had here, Neil. I think we can fix it. This is not our inevitable fate.

• 21:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Let's take a break and let's find out what is your recipe for fixing it before Paul just rails on you one more time.

• 21:27Irwin Redlener?

  Okay, I can fix it.

• 21:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You think you can do it. Let's take a quick break and when we come back, more with Erwin Redliner, just telling us about how we're gonna survive this COVID pandemic and what our kids, what role they will need to play going forward.

• 21:46Speaker 03

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• 22:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're back, StarTalk. I got Paul Mercurio. Paul, good to have you, man.

• 22:30Paul Mecurio?

  Oh, great to be here.

• 22:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right, and you're looking healthier than the last time we had you on. You're rising up out of COVID. Do you have your taste buds back yet?

• 22:38Paul Mecurio?

  No, I don't. I mean, I do some days and sometimes in the middle of a meal, I'll taste it and then all of a sudden I can't taste anything for the rest.

• 22:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And you find out, oh, I thought I ordered pizza, but I'm eating cardboard from Staples.

• 22:49Paul Mecurio?

  Exactly. It's really helping my budget, I'll tell you that.

• 22:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Cardboard is cheaper.

• 22:54Paul Mecurio?

  Also, for some reason, soda right now, Coke, ginger ale, can't, can't drink it. It has this horrible taste and I don't know if there's a chemical in there or something.

• 23:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 23:05Paul Mecurio?

  Strange. Yeah, thanks for asking.

• 23:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, Erwin, we've, we've been talking about your book, The Future of Us. And so what you're telling us is that it has sort of gut-wrenching stories of children who will never realize their potential. So do you have any positive?

• 23:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I don't mean to make light of that fact, but generally, this is America. We like happy endings to things. So are you doing something? Is the country doing something? Is the world doing something? How are we not going to lose people?

• 23:37Irwin Redlener?

  I think about you often, Neil, because you are the purveyor of the most effective articulation of the need for people learning and science and what that means to us. And we're in a very bad spot right now. And the solution is not just you continuing to talk, but we gotta get people who will listen and people who hold the purse strings and are able to change policies. And this is why, to Paul's point, the answer unfortunately, and unfortunately for a lot of scientists, a lot of public health experts, who keep thinking if they write one more paper, that somehow government will be convinced they'll do the right thing. It's just bullshit. And what is going to matter is having the right recipients of the information that

• 24:19Irwin Redlener?

  are controlling our dollars and our policies. That's, I mean, that's what it's boiled down to for me. And look, I think the answer is that we need something that I mentioned before that we're calling like a Marshall Plan for children, which is the Marshall Plan referring, as you pointed out, to the incredible investment we made in Europe to have it recover after World War II. We need a similar investment, a moonshot, that will make us adhere to a national vision for what we can do and an investment to make sure that no child goes to an inadequate school. Every child has healthcare they need and families are helped to rise out of poverty.

• 25:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, you know, I hadn't heard that phrase in so many decades, a national vision. Wow.

• 25:05Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah.

• 25:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, it's only just about me and you and it's not about us.

• 25:10Irwin Redlener?

  Yes, well, no.

• 25:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But the word us is in your title of your book.

• 25:13Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah.

• 25:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The Future of Us.

• 25:15Irwin Redlener?

  And that's.

• 25:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Paul, let's go, let's go to, I think you have some questions that you, we got from Instagram.

• 25:20Paul Mecurio?

  Yeah. Go to on Instagram, we have something from Minavaret11. How will the pandemic affect children whose analytic brain is still developing?

• 25:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Ooh, interesting.

• 25:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, so does the COVID get in the brain? Or is it just disrupting the system that educates you? And so now there's a gap in when you could have learned, but you can't right now?

• 25:41Irwin Redlener?

  It's actually both, Neil. Because we know that there can be neurological symptoms from people that had COVID. There was just a report out that children are we're increasingly seeing the problems of the effect on the neurological system and brain function in children. Still very small numbers, but something for us to worry about, unfortunately. And that's what we're dealing with. But also.

• 26:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But just to generalize that that notion, just to generalize it. So what we're saying here is if you have a fully formed brain.

• 26:16Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah.

• 26:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's more it's it's more resistant to assaults on it, whatever those assaults might be, relative to one that is still taking shape.

• 26:25Irwin Redlener?

  This is a very important point, and this is why the focus should be on children. Because if you experience trauma and if you get COVID or you you are in a, you know, refugee camp and you're for years, you're suffering and in agony. You will, once the situation, the adversities leave, you are feeling better and you are better. For children who are especially younger children, whose brain is in active development mode, they are affected by all sorts of trauma and all sorts of absence of the appropriate stimulation of the brain, which is why it's a problem if they are interrupted in their educational trajectory. So, yeah, the children, if we it's there's a timeliness here

• 27:10Irwin Redlener?

  with doing what children need versus what adults need. And that has to do with the biology of brain development. And it's really important, Neil, exactly as you point out.

• 27:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, all right, cool. All right, Paul.

• 27:22Paul Mecurio?

  Next, uh, next one?

• 27:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm hmm.

• 27:24Paul Mecurio?

  Okay. By the way, is there any chance this COVID and regarding kids' brains, anything to kind of keep them from asking why?

• 27:35Paul Mecurio?

  Just, I'm not saying I'm a fan of it, but like, that's a little... Nice!

• 27:41Irwin Redlener?

  I'm sorry, I didn't say that.

• 27:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We see what you did there, that was good.

• 27:43Paul Mecurio?

  Oh my god, I hate it when you're funny than I am.

• 27:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's the Y gene, or the Y.

• 27:48Paul Mecurio?

  You're smarter than I am, you're funnier than I am? Okay, number two, go, next one.

• 27:51Irwin Redlener?

  Neither is true, but, okay.

• 27:53Paul Mecurio?

  Um, what kind of, uh, mental effects is being in quarantine having on people, especially teenagers?

• 27:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 28:00Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah, so, it depends, because some families and children do okay, and some don't. So what's the difference? So, the families are able to become more resilient to the traumas and weirdness associated with quarantine and, and, uh, all the other regulations and rules that we have now in a COVID world. Um, is that, you know, for children, we set up a schedule, we have, uh, we create playtimes, we're eating together as a family, we talk through things that are bothering us, and we entertain ourselves the best we can. I'm telling you, you know, comedians, just to make a point here, Paul, are really important

• 28:39Irwin Redlener?

  because of not only the insights that come from good comedy, they're really important, but they also are distracting from focusing on the downside, the doom side of what we're dealing... We're gonna be dealing with COVID-19 for another couple of years. So, we gotta settle in, we gotta figure out ways to keep ourselves, uh, intact mentally and psychologically, and it's really important, and it's about building adaptability and, uh, and resilience in young people, and it's doable, and this is one of the things I talk about in the book.

• 29:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh, interesting, because the, this notion about comedy, I'm a big fan of comedy.

• 29:18Irwin Redlener?

  I know you are.

• 29:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, and, so, and I attempt it every now and then, not on the stage, but I'll speckle what I'm doing with some attempt, trying to be funny. So, I, I tweeted recently, the beginning of a, of a coronavirus joke, but not having the end of it, and I invited people to give me their best ending. And I just simply said, "A coronavirus walks into a bar." That's all I said. I said, "Give me some help here, I need a punchline, I don't have a punchline." And so, 2,000 entries, if you wanna call it that, came, came by, and, but anyhow, there were a few, not many, maybe three or four people, who said... You are making light of a pandemic where 200,000 people have died. I expect more serious communication from you.

• 30:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so, Erwin, your point that you have to see the humor in the tragedy, otherwise, you've got no lifeline. I mean, I don't want to, I don't want to second judge how those people actually felt about it.

• 30:19Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah.

• 30:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But you're, you seem to be saying that I was okay. You're endorsing the fact that I at least attempted this exercise.

• 30:26Irwin Redlener?

  So, I was speaking with Nicole Wallace and a New York Times reporter named Nick Confessary on MSNBC a couple of weeks ago. Can't remember what, I think we mentioned this, but, and I'm talking about something very serious about a big uptick in COVID. And I see Nicole Wallace starting to smile and Nick Confessary's laughing. And I realized, I turned my head and my four-year-old grandson, my youngest grandson, has made a cameo appearance and has appeared on either side of me, jumping up and down. And, listen, that clip got over 600,000 views. And I was inundated with texts, not texts, with tweets from people saying they loved

• 31:08Irwin Redlener?

  it, they laughed, it was the first big laugh they've had in, you know, months. It was an incredibly positive, uniformly positive response. And it points out to me what you just said. We need a break. We need a break. And, you know, this is the kind of, you know, humor that people don't get, that, you know, like, in the old operating rooms and whatever, amongst the docs, you know. You, you are taking a break from the sorrow and the tragedy, and that's human. And I'm, I'm fine with it. I don't mock anything about the seriousness. And I'm a major attacker of Trump and all that, but, you know, my God, we're all feeling incredible stress, incredible.

• 31:49Paul Mecurio?

  You know, if you don't have the comedy to make a point, then, like you said, it just becomes this sort of morose, you know, it's, it's, it's, glad to hear that you think it's necessary.

• 31:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, Paul, I think we got time for, like, one or two more questions? If we can answer them efficiently, maybe get in a few more.

• 32:05Irwin Redlener?

  Sorry, okay, I was trying.

• 32:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, no, I was, no, I was, we love your stories, no. I was not dissing on you, no.

• 32:13Paul Mecurio?

  Hang on one second.

• 32:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right.

• 32:15Paul Mecurio?

  This, this, this one is similar to the one I just asked, I'm gonna skip it. This is from Adam Gulata. How do we become more educated as citizens on COVID-19?

• 32:26Paul Mecurio?

  People think it's fake.

• 32:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, so, so let me, let me reshape that, Erwin. The, the source of education to learn what is not fake is out there. So there's a wanton disregard for what is true by a subset of the people. What do you do with them? It's not a matter of just, oh, here's what the truth is. Oh, I never knew that, and then everyone holds hands.

• 32:49Irwin Redlener?

  Right, so let me just hearken back to the anti-vax movement that existed, you know, for decades, long before COVID came. Did you ever speak to somebody who was opposed to vaccines? It's, you, you cannot, this, I, I don't know at least what to tell people about the truth that, that the mumps and measles rebel vaccine, that it does not cause autism. It's been debunked.

• 33:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, as, as they say, you can't use reason to argue someone out of a point that they didn't use reason to get into.

• 33:22Paul Mecurio?

  Right, I mean, these are the same people who electrocute themselves on a regular basis. You're not going to be able to convince them. When these people said to me, it's fake in Florida, it's a hoax. I looked in their eyes. They weren't, they believed it in their soul.

• 33:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But Paul, that was Florida. We know.

• 33:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There was a headline, there was a headline, I, I have this headline. It, it was Florida sheriff urges residents not to shoot their guns into the hurricane.

• 33:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This was a, this was a, so Florida, we know something, Florida is another.

• 33:58Paul Mecurio?

  They're an outlier, okay.

• 33:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah. So, so do you have any, you got anything up your sleeve, Erwin? For folks that you can't otherwise convince?

• 34:06Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah, it's very, very difficult. And I, this in a certain way is your core business. You know, Neil, and.

• 34:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 34:14Irwin Redlener?

  Trying to help people understand how important knowledge and truth is. And I don't, you know, I'm not sure what the ticket is to, to make this happen right now.

• 34:26Paul Mecurio?

  If anything softens people, it's how things affect their children and children. And there's studies, Save the Children did a study. And regarding the effects of what's going on and it's, you know, eighty-three percent of the kids reported negative feelings and their violence was a violence uptick in the home and so forth.

• 34:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Domestic violence, yeah, yeah.

• 34:47Paul Mecurio?

  Domestic violence. So that, those facts are facts and when you put that in front of people even who are skeptical, is maybe, should there be a greater emphasis on studies like that and what, and the information that they?

• 35:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Just to reach them emotionally then, rather than...

• 35:03Irwin Redlener?

  Yeah. Those studies are good, but I think Neil might confirm this. Information does not necessarily convince someone who has deep ideological, religious, whatever it is, there's, there's no competition. Science and facts unfortunately turn out to be not a strong competitor. And I know, you know, the two people that, you know, well, you Neil and our late pal Carl Sagan.

• 35:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Carl Sagan, yeah.

• 35:35Irwin Redlener?

  Spent lives and careers on trying to get people to understand the beauty and the importance of learning through the scientific process or whatever you want to call it. But really, really being curious about how the world works and that curiosity plays out as we learn more and we learn more through science and evidence and all that. So.

• 36:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're gonna have to leave it at that. That's at least a mildly uplifting thought relative to everything else that came out of your mouth in the last...

• 36:11Irwin Redlener?

  This is kind of embarrassing in a way, but yeah, I take it, I can take it.

• 36:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You'll take that, you take it, you take it. Paul, keep getting better.

• 36:20Paul Mecurio?

  Thank you.

• 36:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And put down that cardboard, it's not a pepperoni pizza.

• 36:24Paul Mecurio?

  And I always say this, and I want to say it again, if I had Neil as my science teacher, I would be a scientist today. He makes it accessible, fun, and reliable.

• 36:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I don't make it accessible, it's always that I'm just revealing the fact that it was always that.

• 36:36Paul Mecurio?

  Don't disagree with me when I'm complimenting you, Jesus. What do you want?

• 36:42Paul Mecurio?

  Thanks for having me, great to be on it, great to meet you, Doctor.

• 36:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Excellent.

• 36:46Irwin Redlener?

  Likewise, Neil, be well.

• 36:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Erwin Redliner's book, The Future of Us, an exploration of how children will inherit an earth, and what kind of earth do we want to hand over to them. And so, Erwin, always good to see you on Sunday.

• 37:01Irwin Redlener?

  Likewise, Neil, thank you, and nice to meet you, Paul, and really get better quick.

• 37:06Paul Mecurio?

  Thank you, I appreciate it.

• 37:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Neil deGrasse Tyson here, your personal astrophysicist, as always, bidding you to keep looking up.