#665 - Jeff Bridges

Jeff Bridges is an actor and musician known for his roles in movies like The Big Lebowski, Crazy Heart, True Grit and more. His new movie “Minions and Monsters” is in theaters July 1st. Jeff joins Theo to talk about spirituality in the modern world, how he stays creative, and what he’s learned about love over the years. Jeff Bridges: https://www.instagram.com/thejeffbridges/ ------------------------------------------------- Tour Dates! https://theovon.com/tour New Merch: https://www.theovonstore.com ------------------------------------------------- Sponsored By: Celsius: Go to the Celsius Amazon store to check out all of their flavors. #CELSIUSBrandPartner #CELSIUSLiveFit https://amzn.to/3HbAtPJ Perplexity AI: Ask anything at https://pplx.ai/theo Prize Picks: Go to https://link.prizepicks.com/LME0/THEO and use code THEO to get $50 in lineups when you play your first $5 lineup! Play Responsibly. Moonpay: Head over to https://www.moonpay.com/theo to sign up Tecovas: Get 10% off at http://tecovas.com/THEO when you sign up for email and texts. Little Brother: Watch Little Brother June 26th, only on Netflix. Better Help: This show is brought to you by BetterHelp. Sign up and get 10% off at http://BetterHelp.com/theo Watch on Spotify. Spotify subscribers get fewer ads on our episodes. ------------------------------------------------- Music: “Shine” by Bishop Gunn Bishop Gunn - Shine ------------------------------------------------ Submit your funny videos, TikToks, questions and topics you'd like to hear on the podcast to: [email protected] Hit the Hotline: 985-664-9503 Video Hotline for Theo Upload here: https://www.theovon.com/fan-upload Mail stuff to: ATTN: TPW PO BOX 40137 Nashville ,TN 37204 ------------------------------------------------ Find Theo: Website: https://theovon.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/theovon Facebook: https://facebook.com/theovon Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thispastweekend X: https://twitter.com/theovon YouTube: https://youtube.com/theovon Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheoVonClips Shorts Channel: https://bit.ly/3ClUj8z ------------------------------------------------ Producer: Zach https://www.instagram.com/zachdpowers Producer: Trevyn https://www.instagram.com/trevyn.s/ Producer: Nick https://www.instagram.com/realnickdavis/ Producer: Andrew https://www.instagram.com/bleachmediaofficial/ Producer: Halston https://www.instagram.com/halstonrays/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:30Theo Von?

  Today's guest is a legendary actor. The Big Lebowski, True Grit, Crazy Heart, if you haven't seen that one, Tron, many more. He's got a new movie, Minions and Monsters. It's in theaters July 1st. I had quite a time with today's guest, Mr. Jeff Bridges.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  Did I get my right specs? You might be too far away for these.

• 1:12Theo Von?

  No, what you got? Plus two, you got 2.5s? What are you rocking? No ones?

• 1:16Speaker 02

  No, these are prescription, man. These are my reading glasses, but I have, let me see.

• 1:21Theo Von?

  Let me try those bad cats on.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  Well, let me see, here you go for this. That's a reading.

• 1:25Theo Von?

  Just give me one pair. You don't get them both, huh?

• 1:27Speaker 02

  No, I think I'd go for the other one, man.

• 1:29Theo Von?

  Oh, let me see how I'm looking.

• 1:33Theo Von?

  Oh.

• 1:33Speaker 02

  Huh?

• 1:34Theo Von?

  Nope.

• 1:35Speaker 02

  No, a little off, right?

• 1:37Theo Von?

  Yeah, not bad, but...

• 1:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is better, okay.

• 1:39Theo Von?

  Nothing, I don't want to pick a wife out with those on, you know?

• 1:43Speaker 02

  Are you getting close?

• 1:45Theo Von?

  I mean, I'd like to be married.

• 1:46Speaker 02

  Yeah?

• 1:48Theo Von?

  Yeah, I'd like to be, but sometimes it's out of your control, you know?

• 1:51Speaker 02

  Anything close?

• 1:53Theo Von?

  Uh, not that at the moment.

• 1:56Speaker 02

  Have you been close?

• 1:57Theo Von?

  I think I've been close, man, and I just wasn't like, uh... Just like my heart wasn't in the right spot, my brain wasn't... I was touring a lot and I wasn't ready to like, um...

• 2:07Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:08Theo Von?

  I had two wheels out of town, you know?

• 2:10Speaker 02

  She kicked you to the curb or you kicked her a little both?

• 2:14Theo Von?

  She, yeah, I've had them. They've all kicked me. They've all at a certain point kicked me, but I deserve to be kicked.

• 2:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know that you mean it's tough. I resisted it as long as I possibly could.

• 2:24Theo Von?

  You did?

• 2:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26Theo Von?

  Well, you've been married, you've had a.

• 2:27Speaker 02

  We just had our forty ninth anniversary.

• 2:30Theo Von?

  Let's go.

• 2:31Speaker 02

  Man, oh, yeah, really a good one. I scored, man.

• 2:36Theo Von?

  Yeah, how'd you score that?

• 2:37Speaker 02

  Oh, I was making a movie called Rancho de Lux in Montana.

• 2:43Speaker 02

  And we're shooting in this place called Chico Hot Springs. They, but they used to do brain surgery there a hundred years ago. It's like a hot spring place.

• 2:52Theo Von?

  For sure. Warm water. That's where I want to be cut open.

• 2:54Speaker 02

  Exactly, man. Yeah. And I'm sitting there in this hot tub with Harry Dean Stanton on one side and Sam Waterston on the other. And we're doing a scene and I look across and I see this gorgeous girl with two black eyes and a broken nose.

• 3:14Theo Von?

  Oh.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  And that juxtaposition of that disfigurement and the beauty, you know. That, you know, part of the trouble with these interviews like this, because I've done a bunch now, is I end up telling the same story. I want to tell the story.

• 3:28Theo Von?

  Okay.

• 3:28Speaker 02

  But it's one of my favorite stories, so I don't mind. But it feels a little funny because I've told it so often, you know, so I think, I imagine people say, don't tell that fucking story, man.

• 3:38Theo Von?

  I've never heard it, man. So, you know, I've never talked about love. And so you see, so you're sitting in a tub, first of all, with two men.

• 3:43Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, oh, and I, and I'm going to show you something. I think I got it. I usually don't have the thing that goes along with it, but I think I got it in my satchel here. So I'm sitting in there with two guys, Harry Dean Stanton, Stan Waterston. See this gorgeous girl with a broken nose and two black eyes. I finally get up my nerve to ask her out. Now, you know, asking somebody out, you know, it's tough, isn't it, man?

• 4:07Theo Von?

  Oh, it's hard to get your nerve because your nerve, sometimes it feels like it starts at your feet and you got to get it all the way up your body.

• 4:12Speaker 02

  And I'm young now. I'm in my twenties, man.

• 4:15Theo Von?

  So you're virile.

• 4:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm virile, but I'm not, I'm, I'm unpracticed, you know?

• 4:20Theo Von?

  Yeah, unrehearsed.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  Unrehearsed. And I go up there and I say, would you like to go out with me, maybe have dinner or something? No. I say, really? She says, yeah, it's a small town. Maybe I'll see you around, you know? And her prophecy proved true. And at the rap party of this movie, she showed up and we danced and that was the done deal. Now we cut 30 years later, we're married, have three kids, and I'm going through my mail on my desk. And I get this letter from the makeup man on the show where I met this, my now wife.

• 5:04Theo Von?

  Wow.

• 5:05Speaker 02

  And he says, I was going through my files and I found something that might interest you. It's you talking to a local girl. So I have a photograph that I'm going to show you right now.

• 5:18Theo Von?

  Let's see it, huh?

• 5:21Speaker 02

  This is a shot of the first words ever spoken between my wife and myself.

• 5:28Theo Von?

  Oh, that's a dang hieroglyph of love.

• 5:29Speaker 02

  Isn't this a wild thing, man?

• 5:31Theo Von?

  Yeah, of course it is. Thank you, bro. That's cool.

• 5:35Speaker 02

  This is a wild, and this is my prized possession. Let me see if I can find it. Oh my.

• 5:41Theo Von?

  Get that thing out.

• 5:42Speaker 02

  This is a two-shot. Here is the moment and you can see, look at the look on my face. I'm totally cold cocked here, man. Look, would you like to go out with me? No. Click. The picture's taken. There it is, man.

• 5:56Theo Von?

  You are smitten, dude.

• 5:58Speaker 02

  You can tell.

• 5:59Theo Von?

  Even from a side angle, you can see.

• 6:01Speaker 02

  I'm done, man. It's over, you know?

• 6:03Theo Von?

  Full smitten. Oh, beautiful.

• 6:06Speaker 02

  And so, but I resisted because, you know, we don't want to lose our autonomy, man. We'd like to, you know, and there's so many beautiful girls all over the place.

• 6:15Theo Von?

  But do you think, even while you're saying that, so do you think, thank you for showing me that and congratulations too, man? Um, yeah, and it's having love for that long, you know? I think people sometimes don't think that when they get into a relationship, what they do get out of it, if they work it well, is they get love.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  Well.

• 6:30Theo Von?

  You know, people forget about that part of it. I mean, they may, they may also get other stuff too. But, um, but do you think like that that's one of the things that keeps you, keeps a guy from asking a woman out sometimes is the fear of losing their autonomy without even thinking about that?

• 6:44Speaker 02

  Well, that's what, yeah, so.

• 6:46Theo Von?

  Because you usually think it's just general fear, right? Because I never thought about it like that, like what you're saying like, because I think about, oh, I'm like, I feel like if I'm gonna ask you a lot, I feel like, okay, I'm nervous, right? But I've never thought that the nerves are really just like a deep internal fear, like it's your autonomy showing up and be like, no, we're gonna lose it. You think that could be true?

• 7:03Speaker 02

  Oh, absolutely. That's what it was with me. You know, I'm in my, you know, prime.

• 7:10Theo Von?

  Oh, you were prime red.

• 7:11Speaker 02

  You know, I mean, I was, you know, my career was on the rise, all these beautiful women were around. And I felt it was like, literally like the cartoon where the eyes go out, you know, I was boom in love at first sight. And it was frightening to feel like that.

• 7:29Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  But, and so I was torn. And what I, you know,

• 7:40Speaker 02

  the high that we're looking for, I find, or the one I'm looking for is intimacy, right? That's what, and that's what marriage, that's the playing field of intimacy, you know, you can, you're committed for the whole shot and you say, and I'm just lucky that I found somebody who's I'm so attracted to and the intimacy seems to grow. But what you, your question triggered.

• 8:09Speaker 02

  You know, we, we lived together for about three years and it was on again, off again. And

• 8:17Speaker 02

  she says to me,

• 8:20Speaker 02

  hey, I know you love me. And

• 8:25Speaker 02

  and that you have a bulge. Now, a bulge is a diseased, mental disorder that my mother used to tell me, which I have a hard time making decisions.

• 8:36Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  She was slightly joking with me, both my mom and my wife. Say, I know you have a bulge, but I'm gonna go back up to Montana where you found me because my biological clock's going off.

• 8:48Theo Von?

  Wow.

• 8:49Speaker 02

  You know? And I finally worked up, I guess it was courage, I don't know what it was. I know I prayed on the thing, I got down on my knees and said, okay.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  Marry me, you know, and I had this image of a handful of sand and there was one little diamond in there and that was Sue, you know, and I can't let that diamond go.

• 9:12Theo Von?

  I have.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  And I gave myself a caveat. I said, you can always get a divorce, man.

• 9:19Theo Von?

  That's true.

• 9:20Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 9:21Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  So that was my caveat. Now we cut about a week later because Sue says, when do we want to get married? I said, oh, how about this weekend? Cause I don't know how long I can hold this thing, you know?

• 9:33Theo Von?

  That's a good point. A lot of people put the wedding way too far out.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  Oh, man, that would have been torture. So we invite a bunch of our friends over to our little house up in Malibu, up in the hills there and to get married. Now we cut to Maui. It was the seven sacred pools. We have our honeymoon there. And I'm looking at this gorgeous scenery, but all I can do is smell the rotting mangoes, man. I'm a pouting.

• 10:03Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 10:04Speaker 02

  And she goes, what's wrong? I go, nothing, nothing. She goes, oh, let's annul this. I said, no, no.

• 10:10Theo Von?

  No, it's just bad fruit.

• 10:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. And she put up with that shit for years.

• 10:15Theo Von?

  Really? Just that bad? Just recognizing the, recognizing the rotten mangoes, huh? I feel that, bro.

• 10:20Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, and thank God she didn't kick me to the curb and then I finally got with the program. I said, nobody fooled me.

• 10:29Theo Von?

  What made you get with the program?

• 10:30Speaker 02

  Well, the, you know, I mentioned intimacy, you know, you get so intimate, you go through so many bad times and good times. And every time you go through a tough time, you either sepp, you know, give it up, or you, your love and intimacy connection have to grow to hold that weird thing that was threatening it, you know?

• 10:52Theo Von?

  One thing you said, it was like, you're like, I had like a handful of sand and there was like one diamond in it.

• 10:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:58Theo Von?

  It's crazy how many times in our lives, I mean, and really I'm just speaking for myself, I think. And I don't want to speak from like a negative or like downer place, but there's been times in my life where I've had a handful of sand and like one diamond that was like a Special person and I chose and I chose the sand. But um, but sometimes I think it was fear or it was like.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  Well, as we're talking about the metaphor, it's not so much choosing the sand for me, but it was I'm gonna choose this handful of sand, sand being all the bullshit.

• 11:27Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  With, because there's a diamond in there. So I said, I'm okay, I'm gonna take, you know, it was a, I'm so, uh, it was an unconscious decision on that side, although I, you know, I felt it was so strongly that I gave myself that caveat, which is a weird thing to go into a marriage saying you can always get a divorce, man.

• 11:48Theo Von?

  But it's, that's not a bad call.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess not, man.

• 11:52Theo Von?

  Yeah, it worked. It worked. Anyway, obviously if it lasted this long, was, was there one of them more like, was there like a more pressing moment that came in like? Yeah, what's, because one of my friends, I was talking with Jared Leto, he and our buddies, we met at the UFC fights. And I was just randomly messaging him and I said, hey, um, I'm gonna be talking with Jeff Bridges and he said a lot of nice things and uh, and then he said, yeah, how has he had so much luck and love like? How, how does, like, why does he think his marriage has lasted so long? It's like, yeah, are there like, yeah, like what was one of the tougher moment like? That you had to evolve because it sounds like you're saying you get to these moments and you either choose to kind of evolve and it adjusts like the volume of your like intimacy?

• 12:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:32Theo Von?

  Or you choose not to.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  Well.

• 12:35Theo Von?

  And a lot of us choose not to at times, you know, because it feels safer.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:42Speaker 02

  Well, there's something that I call, what do I call it? Our primal battle, our primal war that we have.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  And it's basically, you don't get it. You don't get what it's like having a relationship with somebody like you. You don't get it. You don't understand me at all. And there's such truth in that because we, none of us really know the other person, really, you know? And what we'll do, we've started doing this in the, if it's happened now as the years go on less and less, and I kind of almost miss it, it just happened recently, I said, oh, good, we get to do it again, we'll sit a little closer than we are here and facing each other. And we'll take turns, you know, whoever wants to go first can go first.

• 13:37Speaker 02

  And the person just says all their feelings. And the other person just listens, they don't think of their rebuttal, they just, their task is to just receive what that person, and again, it's intimacy, man, try to get that, get that.

• 13:54Theo Von?

  All their feelings about them, about everything?

• 13:56Speaker 02

  About everything.

• 13:57Theo Von?

  Got it.

• 13:58Speaker 02

  And we've tried not to use, you know, you, you, you, the you message, we've tried to say, this is how I feel, this is what I feel.

• 14:04Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 14:04Speaker 02

  And then the other person does their side, and the other person listens, and we go back and forth, that often really scratches the itch in a beautiful way, sometimes it doesn't. But it's a, really a cool strategy to deal with the basic thing that you don't understand what I am, what I'm going through. And marriage is a great, like a playing field or a, you know,

• 14:34Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 14:34Speaker 02

  A game board to really explore all of those, those emotions that are so real for all of us, you know, because we're all separate people.

• 14:44Theo Von?

  Right.

• 14:44Speaker 02

  But we're similar in that we're human beings, you know, we have feelings and...

• 14:48Theo Von?

  Yeah, and that's the closest we get, I mean, that's one of the closest relationships that you have. I think to be able to do that with any relationship is pretty cool. But to really look at, to look at love as like a playing field, to look at like a relationship with someone else as like a playing field, and let's try this out, like, let's try out some things to see, like, just how brave can we get with like our vulnerability or with learning about ourselves? It's pretty cool.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  That's right, that's right.

• 15:11Theo Von?

  And they used to have these things in tribes, like in certain tribes, I don't know which, there's one I'm thinking of specifically, but they would have these kind of dance off things, like partners would, and they would like try to like, like, they would dance in front of each other, like kind of process their energies toward each other, it's kind of fascinating. So I kind of related to something like that a little bit.

• 15:27Speaker 02

  Well, also, you know, uh...

• 15:32Speaker 02

  I'm saying it's like a playing field or you know, a place to practice relationship, you know, uh, and I find it overflows into my work and making a movie or just being here with you, you know?

• 15:47Theo Von?

  Yeah. Yeah, I noticed stuff like that.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  You use the same thing. Now, I would think what you do, and I, uh, I'm not as familiar as I might have been with what you're up to, but I Googled you, you know, before I showed up today. I said, God, look at this guy's really into some great interviews. I saw your interview with Mike Tyson.

• 16:08Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:10Theo Von?

  It was wild, dude. Dude, he was out of his mind, but, but he was also, he was also the most in his mind.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  Oh my, exactly. He did, and, and Louis CK.

• 16:19Theo Von?

  Oh, he's one of my heroes.

• 16:21Speaker 02

  So you had some great, and you get intimate on these things and that, I bet, I bet when you finally find a girl or a guy, whoever, which way you're leaning to connect with in that deep way.

• 16:32Theo Von?

  I hope it's a woman.

• 16:35Theo Von?

  I'll say this, if it's a guy, I'm gonna be shocked, bro. If they like, yeah, if it's an arranged marriage and it's a guy, dude, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna email my mom. But, yeah, dude, I, you know, I like talking about stuff like that and it's important. And some of these people, like Louis is one of my dearest friends in the world.

• 16:53Speaker 02

  Oh, wow, man.

• 16:54Theo Von?

  He's one of the deepest people I've ever met in my whole life.

• 16:56Speaker 02

  So, yeah.

• 16:58Theo Von?

  I got to be at a, I went to a party recently and, um, him and Bob Odenkirk were there. Have you ever met, got to meet Bob Odenkirk?

• 17:04Speaker 02

  No, but I admire him, yeah.

• 17:06Theo Von?

  He's it, and he was just like, and they were talking, dude, and I just got to sit there and listen to them.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  Oh, wonderful.

• 17:13Theo Von?

  It was like, yeah, that was something pretty special. But yeah, it is interesting, like, cause this is the playing field that we get. You know, sometimes we forget that this is like, whatever it is, like, whatever like God has intended or the world or the energies of whatever, like that put us here to have this like, like a fish coming to like the edge of the glass and being able to like see just, just get like a peek out into the universe.

• 17:35Speaker 02

  This is it.

• 17:35Theo Von?

  This is it.

• 17:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, man.

• 17:37Theo Von?

  So all the things that we want to do, we have to try them while we're here, even if it's scary, even if it's hard, you know?

• 17:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, and don't you find, I don't know about you, but I'm addicted to comfort, man. I like to be comfortable.

• 17:49Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  And the problem with comfort, and maybe it's not even a problem, it's kind of both a problem and the solution. When you're comfortable, you're not growing, you're not, you're just be, you're just. Relax and be uncomfortable.

• 18:02Theo Von?

  It's a coffin, man.

• 18:04Speaker 02

  It's a kind of, yeah, it's a coffin.

• 18:06Theo Von?

  It's cozy.

• 18:07Speaker 02

  And all these little challenges of life and I resist these like marriage, man. I resist this shit.

• 18:14Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 18:14Speaker 02

  Because I don't like to be challenged. I don't want to be uncomfortable.

• 18:19Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  But I notice every once in a while, I'll do these experiments on myself and I say, okay, you feel this way, now why don't you just go against that and do something adventurous and challenging, you know, and see what happens, just to fuck around, you know. So I'll do that on the other side of that, 99% of the time I say, wow, I got off, man. That was cool.

• 18:42Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 18:43Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm something other than I thought I was. I didn't think I could do that.

• 18:49Theo Von?

  I know.

• 18:50Speaker 02

  Isn't that wild thing?

• 18:51Theo Von?

  Yeah, we forget that like this is the, this is a school, I think. We forget that this is a school, you know, and you kind of just get used to the recess of it.

• 18:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's something I remember, I never went to college, but I thought, gee, I think I'll put my, I'll be the dean of my own college. I'm going to put my, you know, and I didn't, I didn't do it to the degree that I want to do, you know, but to give myself assignments, you know, you play guitar?

• 19:15Theo Von?

  No, I don't.

• 19:16Speaker 02

  You don't, but I, you know, I play guitar, but I said, I should take, you know, I'm always jealous of my friends who did that woodshedding, you know, and learned all that stuff, you know. I said, I notice I don't do it, but I could, I could put myself through, you know, a college course of guitar. It's all online, there's so much stuff online.

• 19:35Theo Von?

  Which seems like you've done a good job with kind of like nurturing your creativity over time, you know, it seems like you stay active with like, I saw like a lot of the, and it's one thing that Louis CK does too, is he's a great sculptor. People don't know that.

• 19:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:48Theo Von?

  And I don't even know if he cares if I share that or not, but like you'll go to his, to his apartment and he has like all these crazy sculptures that he's made and it just, it just like, he reminds me of like just creativity, it's not stuck in one spot. It's not your just this or that you can use it in different ways. You can also try to see if it sticks in different ways. It's like throwing like a spaghetti, like, you know, of yourself against. The wall of like the world or the universe or something. But you seem to have done that a decent amount with like music, acting. And with also, I've seen some of your, can you even bring them up Nick? Some of the sculptures that you have.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, my heads. Yeah, I make, you know, I'll do a pot or something. And then I always have a little piece of clay left over and I just let my hands go and say, you know. And they come up with these heads, man. I don't know the aspects of myself or what the hell they are, but.

• 20:46Theo Von?

  That guy definitely. I'm gonna say he was Italian at one point.

• 20:52Theo Von?

  But yeah, beautiful group there. Do you vend these or you give these away for charity or something?

• 20:59Theo Von?

  Or do you prize them? Cause I guess they're like, they're kind of pieces of you in a way.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  Well, they were for, it's sort of a semi abandoned project. I say semi because I still may kick this project off. It's kind of dear to my heart. It was a project called Head for Peace.

• 21:16Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah. Look, already I support it, bro. Who doesn't want Head for Peace?

• 21:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 21:26Theo Von?

  I will be the lieutenant governor of the project or whatever.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, good.

• 21:31Theo Von?

  Dude, I'll be on the front lines of Head for Peace.

• 21:33Speaker 02

  It was for, I got very tight with a cat named Bernie Glassman. You know that guy at all? Does that name ring a bell? No. So he's a Zen master. He was, he's no longer with us. And I was at a party, you know who Ram Dass is?

• 21:50Theo Von?

  Yes.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  So I give him, it was Ram Dass's birthday.

• 21:54Theo Von?

  Oh dang, what do you even get him?

• 21:56Speaker 02

  Well, I, this is where I get him. I say, Ram, can I call you Ram? I've always wanted to give you a little head, man. My head? And he looked at me kind of straight. And then the guy sitting to my left was this like little Jewish guy, you know? And he goes, hi, I'm Bernie Glassman. And I go, oh, yeah. And he says, I really Doug Lebowski, man. And I say, oh, yeah. And I said, oh, yeah. And he says, yeah, he says, I'm a Zen master. I don't know if he actually said Zen master, but he maybe said, I'm really into Buddhism or something. But it turns out this guy was a heavy Zen master. And he says, Lebowski, it's filled with Zen koans. You know what a koan is?

• 22:42Speaker 02

  Like, you know, what is the sound of one hand clapping? That's kind of a thing.

• 22:45Theo Von?

  Okay.

• 22:46Speaker 02

  So it's like a question that you don't have a certain answer. You just have to kind of give you a vibe or trigger something to you, you know?

• 22:56Theo Von?

  Let's see that real quick.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can. Yeah, there you go. Yeah.

• 22:59Theo Von?

  A Zen koan is a short paradoxical story or dialogue used in Zen Buddhist practice. Rather than riddles to be logically solved, they are meant to exhaust the rational mind, allowing the practitioner to break free from the habitual binary thinking and experience reality directly.

• 23:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:14Theo Von?

  Some examples are the sound of one hand clapping.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So that anyway, that's a perfect, uh, great definition.

• 23:21Theo Von?

  Got it.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  So Bernie says, yeah, I really dug Lebowski. He says, it's filled with modern day koans. And I'm all about bringing Buddhism up to speed with modern day times. I said, what do you mean? It's filled with, uh, modern day koans. He says, well, look who wrote and directed it. The Koan Brothers.

• 23:39Theo Von?

  Oh.

• 23:40Speaker 02

  And I say, uh, and I say, what's another example? He says,

• 23:44Theo Von?

  Yeah, because that one's mid. That one's pretty mid.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. He says, the dude abides. That's very Buddhistic right there. I said, give me another one. He says, well, my favorite one is that's just like your opinion, man.

• 23:58Speaker 02

  And that is, that's my favorite one.

• 24:00Theo Von?

  At least he came with three. If he'd only had.

• 24:02Speaker 02

  Oh, no. He, he, when he goes on, I said, give me another. Shut the fuck up, Donnie. That's another one. You know, they're just, and he was filled with these things. And I said, those are pretty good. He says, yeah, let's write a book, man. I say, what do you mean? He says, yeah, we'll write a book about, about this. You into it? And I thought about it and I got such a hit from this guy. You know how you get a hit kind of immediately with people, you know, boom, you know?

• 24:26Theo Von?

  Yeah. Some people are fascinating. It's like meeting a cool pet in the street.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  You just boom.

• 24:30Theo Von?

  Yeah. You keep petting it or whatever.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so we got in cahoots. We went up to Montana for a week or two and wrote this book called The Dude and the Zen Master. Oh, you got it up there. There it is. There's Bern.

• 24:42Theo Von?

  Let's go.

• 24:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, man.

• 24:46Theo Von?

  And what happened to him?

• 24:47Speaker 02

  Huh?

• 24:48Theo Von?

  What happened? He passed away?

• 24:49Speaker 02

  He died. Yeah, I was just, you know.

• 24:51Theo Von?

  He could have faked it and he could be in Barbados.

• 24:54Speaker 02

  But this guy, I would advise your viewers to check him out. You can, you know, you can Google the hell out of him. He's got so many wonderful books.

• 25:04Theo Von?

  Bernie Glassman?

• 25:05Speaker 02

  Bernie Glassman. The Infinite Circle, Instructions to the Cook. He's, he's, was so great. Oh, anyway, getting back to the heads. So I had this weird idea. Cause I got very involved with his organization called The Zen Peacemakers.

• 25:24Theo Von?

  And were you spending a lot of time with him? Like, were you, like, did you guys have a weekly or daily practice?

• 25:29Speaker 02

  You know, I didn't really.

• 25:31Theo Von?

  Like, were you becoming a Buddhist? Like, that's what I'm?

• 25:33Speaker 02

  Well, I, you know, I've, in my spirituality, you know, I could, we could talk about that. You know, this, that's a whole kind of a, I'm, I'm interested in all kinds of spiritual stuff since I was a kid, raised, you know, I guess Christian, from Christian point of view. But Bernie and I, I don't know, my, was he, I think the word guru does kind of sticks in my craw. I just thought him as, as a dear, wise friend, man, that really, I, I got so much out of. And anyway, he had this organization called, and it's still going on, called Zen Peacemakers. And my idea with these heads, I was gonna make 108 heads.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  That number is significant in Buddhism and a lot of relations, religions. And I would rent these heads for $10,000 a year.

• 26:30Theo Von?

  I've rented a little head before, but lower price.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  I would put them in a little box and stuff. And basically it was like swag for people who wanted to support the Zen Peacemakers. You know what I mean? Now, along with the head. The person would get a certificate, you know, you'd get the thing about, hey, let me give you a little head, you know, you get to say that joke to your friends.

• 26:51Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 26:52Speaker 02

  You could pass the head on to other people. There would also be a website that would talk about the genealogy of the head, who had the head last, you know, I just went, my fantasy, I just went way up out there.

• 27:04Theo Von?

  It's like Cabbage Patch Dolls, kinda all that.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:06Theo Von?

  Right.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I don't know, but it's still in the works. I still have a, but then I got hit with this flood up here and all the heads got lost. And so I had to make more heads.

• 27:17Theo Von?

  So you're saying there's some missing head around here?

• 27:19Speaker 02

  There is some missing head.

• 27:20Theo Von?

  I agree, brother.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I need some head, man.

• 27:23Theo Von?

  Hey, look, dude. I mean, yeah.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  But, you know, but, uh, oh, man.

• 27:31Theo Von?

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• 28:15Theo Von?

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• 28:57Theo Von?

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• 29:40Theo Von?

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• 30:15Speaker 02

  But you know.

• 30:15Theo Von?

  So that's something that could happen and that's part of that whole thing.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, it's hobbies. You know, I remember I'd be working on a movie. I'd be in my hotel room preparing. And I'd say, oh, wow. That reminds me of an interesting song and I pick up my song and start writing a song. And I get mad at myself because now you're supposed to be studying, you know. But like you said, uh, talking about, you know, you have creative, you're a creative person. Doesn't all just focus in one line. I find when I'm in a creative mode, it shake up that juice and all kinds of creative things, drawing. You know, I was doing a movie with, uh. Peter Weir, wonderful movie.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  He invited me to do called Fearless. I played an architect going through a plane crash. And I said, I think I'm gonna go out and buy a bunch of art supplies as this character and paint as this character. I ended up, you know, papering my hotel room and just going at it. The next morning I had breakfast with Peter. I said, look what happened last night. He goes, oh, well, that's gonna be in the movie, man. You know, he brought, do a song. Oh, that's in the movie. You know, we'll put that in the movie.

• 31:33Theo Von?

  So just create, just being, just creating?

• 31:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, remember, uh, Robert Duvall, wonderful actor I got to work with, in movie called Crazy Heart. He played my best friend in that.

• 31:45Theo Von?

  Yeah, he played the bartender.

• 31:46Speaker 02

  And he played a bartender.

• 31:47Theo Von?

  That's one of my favorite movies.

• 31:49Speaker 02

  He was so wonderful to work with and he said, you know, when I meet with young actors and when they ask me, give, got any advice, he said, three things I'll tell you. Hobbies, hobbies, hobbies. Develop hobbies.

• 32:06Theo Von?

  Yeah, I feel like it.

• 32:08Speaker 02

  You know, it all goes into the, into the work, you know?

• 32:11Theo Von?

  Yeah, sometimes I feel like, yeah, I got so busy working that I don't even have any parts of myself anymore. Does that make any sense?

• 32:17Speaker 02

  What is your hobby? Do you have a hobby?

• 32:19Theo Von?

  I don't really have any.

• 32:19Speaker 02

  You don't have one hobby, man? Think about it.

• 32:22Theo Von?

  I mean, I like to go to the UFC fights.

• 32:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, that's a hobby. Do, are you a martial artist at all?

• 32:28Theo Von?

  No, I used to take some classes, but I haven't taken them recently. I think I was just touring a lot and recently things just stopped, like about a month and a half ago. And so it's kind of the first time where I feel like I'm just kind of looking around and being like, okay, well, who am I? You know, like, who am I? Like, I've always just been kind of my work. I haven't always just been my work, but I realized that somewhere along the way, like, I let that just be me, who I was. Does that make any sense to you?

• 32:51Speaker 02

  I mean, uh, from my point of view, looking at you, this is kind of your hobby. Kind of what you do here, you've combined your work and your hobby so closely. It seems like that you just like to engage and, uh,

• 33:05Theo Von?

  Yeah, that's true. Well, I think my hobbies became jobs. Like doing stand up comedy, I guess was kind of a hobby at first and then podcasting, I guess was sort of a hobby.

• 33:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. So they then they mature and they become not hobbies anymore, but real, real things.

• 33:18Theo Von?

  But I would like to do gardening. I would like to go on more walks. I think I want to go do some camping this year. I want to, um, what else? I'd like to be in love or whatever.

• 33:28Speaker 02

  Do you surf?

• 33:29Theo Von?

  You know, I don't surf, but I wouldn't mind maybe going to Costa Rica. I think it's pretty easy to learn down there.

• 33:33Speaker 02

  That would be cool.

• 33:34Theo Von?

  So maybe I'll do that.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  What about ceramics? You ever mess around with clay?

• 33:39Theo Von?

  No, I haven't really done it.

• 33:40Speaker 02

  You might dig that, man.

• 33:41Theo Von?

  Yeah, man, I might.

• 33:42Speaker 02

  It's cool. Or the guitar, it's a great, never too late, man. It's just so easy because they, where you, you know, it's just pictures of where you put your fingers, those dots and you just do that.

• 33:54Theo Von?

  Oh dude, I'll tell you this. I did love playing the guitar for a little while.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  Then you do do it.

• 33:58Theo Von?

  Yeah. So I need to get back to it. You're right, dude. Maybe if I pick something like that.

• 34:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you've got it already. It's kind of like a bike. I mean, can you play a D, a G and a, you know, you can play three chords.

• 34:09Theo Von?

  I can play Bobby McGee, dude, you know?

• 34:11Speaker 02

  Oh, man. Well, then you're there.

• 34:13Theo Von?

  Nothing left to lose. I can get us there, you know? Me and Bobby McGee, isn't that the song?

• 34:20Speaker 02

  Cringe, man. Christopher's.

• 34:23Theo Von?

  Bro, I'll tell you a story. So I used to live with my buddy's dad when I was in school because I had a little bit of ED when I was younger, right? Because of mental, whatever, mental health or whatever. And so my buddy's dad got weiner pills, right? When they first came out, right? Because people didn't know they were coming out. Remember? Everybody's just standing around their wieners weren't working.

• 34:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:41Theo Von?

  And then bam, they came out.

• 34:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 34:44Theo Von?

  And, uh, and so I went and lived with my buddy's dad, dude, right? Because I could, I could like kind of cop some of his script, okay? Because he could get them, dude. But anyway, while I was there, I was learning the guitar and he used to have this girl over and they would like lay in bed together, like post coitus or whatever after, you know, in the evening and they'd invite me in there and I'd play, uh, Tears in heaven for him. I'd learn to play that.

• 35:08Speaker 02

  Oh, see, you do do it, man. You know, that is, that's one of the challenges is that we let some of these hobbies atrophy, man, when you just, you know what I mean? I mean, that's, I'm talking to myself now. I mean, like guitar, music is kind of a hobby with me.

• 35:24Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah, I noticed that. I mean, especially with.

• 35:26Speaker 02

  But everyone's a little kick in and then get pro for a second and then it kind of wanes. And the season of interest, it's interesting to me how we have these seasons of interest, really.

• 35:40Theo Von?

  Like when it kind of flares up. But I think it is nice, I will say this, it's nice, even hearing you say some of this, Jeff, it's like, there's value in keeping things warm on the stove because then when you need it, it's there.

• 35:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's true.

• 35:54Theo Von?

  I think, because yeah, even when I look back at like certain times in my life then, like even just being able to sit there and to have something to do with myself and my energy and my thoughts, that felt good to me, like in a real place, like in a real deep place, that felt good. Like there was a lot of value in that.

• 36:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, here's a weird thing that pops into my mind about passion. You know, we're saying, well, if I had passion to play the guitar, that would lead me to, I need to get passion to do shit, you know? And then somebody said, and this made sense to me, no, the passion is the fire you get when you rub two sticks together. The passion doesn't happen before you do that.

• 36:35Theo Von?

  Right. If you're standing around with two sticks, you don't have any passion.

• 36:37Speaker 02

  You gotta get in there and just say, I'm gonna pick up the guitar and you play the thing and you have to a couple of years. Oh, oh, well, now this thought, you know, because it's this thought of, you know, when we're creative and in the sweet spot, it's doing you, you're not doing it. You know that feeling, right?

• 36:56Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 36:57Speaker 02

  Isn't that a cool feeling, man?

• 36:58Theo Von?

  Well, creativity is this thing on, it feels like it's on the other side of like the mirror of existence. And if you kind of do your thing, it'll show up and meet you over there.

• 37:05Speaker 02

  Yes, man, right. But you gotta show up.

• 37:07Theo Von?

  Yeah, you gotta show up.

• 37:08Speaker 02

  You know, you know.

• 37:09Theo Von?

  They say in like, I'm in some recovery programs and they say that you can't think your way into right action, but you can act your way into right thinking.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:18Theo Von?

  And I think it's reminding me what you're saying. It's like, yeah, I can't sit there and think like, this is gonna be perfect. When it's like, I just have to make the win, make the start and then the rest of it will meet me there.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  Fake it till you make it, right? Isn't that, it's one of those things. What a great, I'm gonna say religion, but you know, Alcoholics Anonymous and all of those 12 step things. What a wonderful religion, man. What a wonderful.

• 37:40Theo Von?

  One of the best ever, I think.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  Oh, God, isn't it a great idea?

• 37:44Theo Von?

  Yeah, sometimes people are like, do you go to church? And I'm like, I go to church some, but I go to, if I go to recovery meetings, that's like four or five times a week that I'm joining up with other guys, listening to what's going on, getting outside of myself, you know, connecting with the higher power. I mean, it's like, it's like the military for like, probably having a relationship with yourself and a higher power and others, I think.

• 38:07Speaker 02

  So much, so much, so much good has come out of it. And what word popped in my mind was it's got so much room, you know, I think the two, was it Bob? Who was the other guy? Bob?

• 38:18Theo Von?

  Yeah, Dr. Bob and Bill.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, Bob.

• 38:21Theo Von?

  Bill W. Bill W. and Dr. Bob.

• 38:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, one was the real religious kinda guy in that first, what is it? The first thing, a higher, a power higher above than yourself.

• 38:32Theo Von?

  Right, a power greater than yourself.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  Greater than yourself. And that's so challenging to a lot of people. But the other guy kinda softened. It doesn't have to be God, the white guy up there.

• 38:44Theo Von?

  No, just anybody other than you, it says. Yeah.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  Just anything else, you know.

• 38:50Theo Von?

  I know. It's, it's amazing that two people got together and made and created that. I mean, they had so much other stuff that, that, that made it happen, but it's, it's absolutely fascinating. There's a great movie. I think it's James Woods who played Bill W.

• 39:03Speaker 02

  Oh, is that a good one? Oh, yeah.

• 39:04Theo Von?

  That's my favorite one, I think.

• 39:07Speaker 02

  I, I just saw.

• 39:09Theo Von?

  I think it's James Woods. We look, is that who it was? Do you remember?

• 39:11Speaker 02

  I don't, I think, I think it was. I think it was, but I never, I don't remember seeing it.

• 39:16Theo Von?

  James Woods, Jo Beth Williams and James Garner. Yeah, that one I think was my favorite one.

• 39:21Speaker 02

  Have you seen Anthony Hopkins? Do you dig Anthony Hopkins? He's pretty great.

• 39:26Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 39:27Speaker 02

  I just read his autobiography. It's really wonderful. I think you might really dig it.

• 39:32Theo Von?

  He's in recovery meetings. He's, he's open about it. That's the only reason I say that. Yeah.

• 39:35Speaker 02

  And I saw this thing, you can see it online.

• 39:40Speaker 02

  I thought it was him just sharing at a meeting, but I said, well, that's weird because they're anonymous. But I think it was a movie about him playing a character. But he was referred, he referred to this exact same thing in his book. So he was improv-ing in a movie. But he talks about being sober now for, you know, 50 years, whatever it was. And about when it first got sober, he said, he was, you know, driving and he blacked out.

• 40:09Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 40:09Speaker 02

  And he could have killed himself, could have killed other people. And he said, I gotta go, gotta check myself into a meeting. So he went to an AA meeting and he started hearing all that God stuff. He said, I'm out of here. I can't take it. And the guy's talking the story. I said, I can't take it. He's leaving and this fellow stopped and he was a priest. This guy stopped and said, where are you going, son? He says, no, I can't dig this shit, man. I can't dig it. He says, I need a, I need a quick fix, man. I need something that would snap me out of it.

• 40:43Theo Von?

  Patch me up.

• 40:43Speaker 02

  And the guy says, I can give you a quick fix. It's the fastest prayer in the world and it's guaranteed to work. It's only two words. Tony said, well, what is it? He said, I'll tell you the prayer. You ready?

• 40:58Speaker 02

  Fuck it.

• 41:01Speaker 02

  You know, fuck it. Just fuck this shit. You know what I mean?

• 41:04Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 41:05Speaker 02

  Just stop this shit. Just, you know, you, you have the power to say, fuck it.

• 41:09Theo Von?

  Wow.

• 41:09Speaker 02

  Don't take it too damn seriously. Just stop it. You don't have to do it, you know?

• 41:15Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 41:15Speaker 02

  And I love that coming out of, you know, thinking of that.

• 41:19Theo Von?

  A priest.

• 41:20Speaker 02

  Out of a priest and that I, that idea of just, hey, you know, my, my mom.

• 41:27Theo Von?

  But like you don't have to do it anymore. That's what he's saying?

• 41:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:29Theo Von?

  Like fuck that.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, fuck it. You fuck it or, you know, or fuck your struggle.

• 41:35Theo Von?

  Right.

• 41:36Speaker 02

  You fuck all your, oh, I can't this, this, this.

• 41:38Theo Von?

  Right. Your big story about it.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, you just go fuck that, man.

• 41:41Theo Von?

  Dude, it's so funny you say it because I've been, that's, that's right where I'm like back at that place sometimes in my life right now where I like. I go down the struggle road and it's like, you're right, fuck it. Just get your ass up, get your shit done and get on to doing the things that you need to be doing. Yeah. I agree. Sometimes, bro, the craziest thing is like, uh, it's sometimes you don't want to have to be the person to come to your own rescue again, right? It's like, that's life. It's like, you have to be the person to come to, come to your own rescue. But even, even that is just me. It's more that same story. It's more the thing. It's like, it's like adding all this lore to it. It's like, just fuck it. Just do the shit I need to do if I want to get better.

• 42:21Speaker 02

  And I remember, uh, this-

• 42:23Theo Von?

  I appreciate you saying that, bro. I need to hear that shit.

• 42:25Speaker 02

  Oh, no. Yo, you will check out, just Google Anthony Hopkins fuck it and this will come up. I mean, he does it so well. It's wonderful acting.

• 42:35Theo Von?

  Well, he owes me a good story. The first movie I ever saw-

• 42:38Speaker 02

  He might be a good guy for your show and I bet he'd come on.

• 42:41Theo Von?

  I've actually, I mean, I've heard him speak at meetings, actually.

• 42:43Speaker 02

  Oh, he's so good.

• 42:43Theo Von?

  Yeah. Um, but he owes me a good story because the first movie I ever saw was, uh, Silence of the Lambs and it scared me so fucking bad. Yeah, that I couldn't even go, first of all, to a petting zoo or go to sleep for almost 11 months.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  Jonathan Demme, man, what a great, you know, Terms of Endearment. Do you ever check that one?

• 43:01Theo Von?

  Yeah, god.

• 43:01Speaker 02

  Or, or what about Stop Making Sense?

• 43:04Theo Von?

  I haven't seen that.

• 43:04Speaker 02

  Stalking Heads? Are you a Talking Heads fan? Do you like the Talking Heads? You don't like them?

• 43:09Theo Von?

  Oh, I don't know about them. I've heard of them.

• 43:11Speaker 02

  Oh, man. You gotta check out David Byrne. All his stuff is cool, but Stop Making Sense, what a great concert film.

• 43:20Theo Von?

  I gotta check it out.

• 43:20Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:21Theo Von?

  Um, dude, thanks for thinking about some of this stuff with me and just for talking like transparently about different stuff. Um, how is, uh, speaking of Alcoholics Anonymous, how is, uh, Bad Blake doing? How's he doing?

• 43:33Speaker 02

  He's doing well. I'm on the wagon now for a few months.

• 43:36Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah? Congrats, man.

• 43:38Speaker 02

  I go back and, I go back and forth, but, uh, it's nice when you break the, uh- You know, break the chain there and sobriety is a wonderful high, you know, it's a

• 43:48Theo Von?

  It's a real, and you know what, it's kind of a hot, it shouldn't be a hobby, but it's like, it's a, it's a very important hobby.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:54Theo Von?

  Is that a safe thing to say or not?

• 43:55Speaker 02

  No, no, I know what you're saying. I, I haven't, uh, I haven't come, you know, I, I, that whole one day at a time. I'm not looking to never get high again. I just, I just wanted to stop. I got, you know,

• 44:08Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 44:09Speaker 02

  And I stopped and I haven't wanted to have another drink. I see that frosty glass of, you know, Tito's or something. I'll say, oh, man.

• 44:16Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 44:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. But I don't have to, you know, you can want to, but don't have to. Yeah.

• 44:22Theo Von?

  And then a few minutes later, I usually feel kind of better. And then it's not having to deal with some of the repercussions. But also I think sometimes even if you just want to take a break from having a drink or having a, whatever it is, going to like 12 step meetings, it's just a great place to be around other humans. It's like, it's a place that still exists in our society of like real connection. There's a book, a guy wrote about how there's no more bowling leagues. Um, and can you look that up? It's like, I'm trying to think of the title of it, but it's about how a lot, they used to have a lot of men's bowling leagues. And men would get together and they would bowl, uh, Bowling Alone, The Collapse and Revival of American Community. And, um, and it was just about giving men a place to be together and, uh,

• 45:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, Lebowski, man, that's all, that's what, there you go, bowling, man.

• 45:08Theo Von?

  It's just funny that this is kind of where some of this conversation is going. Before we get on to the basket though, I want to say, yeah, how is Bad Blake doing, man? Do you ever feel like? And first of all, thank you for being him, dude. That was, that movie like, it just like, if I need to, sometimes dude, in my life, it's like, there's like feelings that are stuck inside of me and I can't get them out. And so I'll go, I'll listen to a certain song or I'll watch a certain movie. And it'll make, it'll do that exact thing. It'll let the air out of whatever that is.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:35Theo Von?

  You know? So thank you so much, man. That movie really does that for me. It's like, but then you also wonder like, man, like, I hope Bad Blake's okay, you know, it's like, cause it's it's it's a tough. It's a tough road for everybody involved with him, but it's also a tough road for him.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:49Theo Von?

  Do you ever like, like, wonder like what the second part of his story was, or do you ever like, like, do you ever have like little like visions of how it went for him after that?

• 45:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, he's got to get back with Maggie's character, man. You know, he does. That's how I'm thinking, you know?

• 46:05Theo Von?

  What is she even doing? She met somebody, I guess.

• 46:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, but that falls apart. In my mind, that falls apart, you know? Who knows? Maybe, now, you know, that movie was such a wonderful experience. You know, I'd often thought as an actor, I said, oh, it'd be great to play a musician. I love playing guitar and I've been doing it since high school. You know, I write songs and stuff. And, uh, and but, and so this guy, Scott Cooper, who was being championed by Bob Duvall. Uh, Scott gave him a script and Bobby loved the script and Scott first, never directed before, sent me this script for years, man.

• 46:49Theo Von?

  For years it was coming through?

• 46:50Speaker 02

  It was coming through and I'd say, well, it's pretty good, but there's no music. And if there's not good music for it, then you know what? And now I'm walking down the street and who comes down the street but T-Bone Burnett, my old buddy? We go back many, many years, met him on a Heaven's Gate and he did the music for Lebowski. That score is all T-Bone, you know?

• 47:12Theo Von?

  And so, and he did also for Crazy Heart, right?

• 47:15Speaker 02

  And he, and he was the producer. Yeah, he was the producer. So T-Bone, so T-Bone comes walking down the street. He's got a new album out. Now, God, check out, all his music is so wonderful.

• 47:27Theo Von?

  T-Bone Burnett.

• 47:28Speaker 02

  T-Bone Burnett. And so T-Bone's walking down the street and he says, so what do you think of this script Crazy Heart? And I said, why are you interested? He goes, oh, yeah, I'll do it if you'll do it. I said, you're kidding. I said, there's no music. And he says, oh, that's the easy part, man. I go, bone. He says, come on, what do you think? So now here, life is, you know, life gives us these opportunities, these gifts. And like you say, you can let the sand go, or you can say, maybe there's something in there. I said, I'm frightened, man. You know, keeping it in the dream world, it's safe, right?

• 48:04Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 48:04Speaker 02

  Cause you can't feel it. But if I bring this real, I could fail, man, you know?

• 48:10Theo Von?

  Dude, that's the same thing for everything.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, for everything, man. But here's one of my good buddies saying, hey, let's jam. What I, look at this gift. I say, okay, we can, you know, too cool to turn down that. So we jump into it and this young director, Scott Cooper, my God, what a great director. And you look at his movies that he's done. And now we meet, uh, you're over at T-Bone's house working on the script. And there's something so cool about just the beginnings of making a movie when it's all ephemeral, you know, you don't know what's gonna happen. And we're in there and in comes this young kid who was hired as a, to play a part in the movie.

• 48:54Speaker 02

  And he says, uh, yeah, I was jamming last night on my guitar and I came up with this tune. I don't know if it's any good, but I just thought you guys might wanna look at it.

• 49:02Theo Von?

  That's how it happened.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  It's Ryan, it's Ryan Bingham, man. And he hands us this cassette. We put it on. And I look over at T-Bone, his face goes, and he says, because if we didn't have that tune, it wouldn't, the whole movie would have fallen apart. But Wary Kind, you know, that, that, what a wonderful.

• 49:21Theo Von?

  This ain't no place for the weary kind. Oh.

• 49:23Speaker 02

  What a tune, yeah.

• 49:25Theo Von?

  Dude, and just those words, man. It's those words. It's like.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  T-Bone wanted to make, name the movie Wary Kind. That's what he, but, uh, yeah. And what an experience. And Maggie Gyllenhaal, oh my God, what a talent. And look at her directing now that she's doing it.

• 49:41Theo Von?

  I know. And she's married, huh?

• 49:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's married to, yeah, Peter Sarsgaard, a wonderful actor.

• 49:46Theo Von?

  Oh, never, yeah, of course.

• 49:48Speaker 02

  Oh God, yeah. But anyway, you get all those talented people.

• 49:53Theo Von?

  I know.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  Oh man, and I've had wonderful luck with first time directors, guys who, you know, who haven't ever directed and then they get a shot, you know, you get a strong producer who wants to champion these guys. Steve Clovis, the guy who done, you saw a movie called The Fabulous Baker Boys.

• 50:12Theo Von?

  I haven't seen that, but uh, maybe I have seen that.

• 50:14Speaker 02

  But that's my brother and I got, I got to work with Bo, my brother in that and uh,

• 50:19Theo Von?

  Oh, that's cool.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  First time director, wrote it when he was in his early twenties, I think. God, what a talent.

• 50:26Theo Von?

  Yeah, oh, yeah, I always wonder what happened to Bad Blake and I just hope that he's doing good sometimes, you know?

• 50:30Speaker 02

  I think he is.

• 50:31Theo Von?

  Sometimes you think about that as characters, it's like you hope that they're doing good.

• 50:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:35Theo Von?

  Because you don't get to see him, you just get to see this part of their life, like, you know?

• 50:38Speaker 02

  Well, in my mind, he gets back with Maggie, man. And that kid, and that little kid.

• 50:43Theo Von?

  Yeah, what happened to him?

• 50:44Speaker 02

  I loved, I loved his-

• 50:44Theo Von?

  Buddy!

• 50:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, Buddy? Nice, man. I loved his rea- his real name, the kid's name is Jack Nation.

• 50:50Theo Von?

  No.

• 50:50Speaker 02

  What a great, what a great name. And what, uh, you acting-

• 50:54Theo Von?

  And it's also a deviant website, too. I just want to say that.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  Jack Nation it is? Oh, I didn't, oh.

• 50:59Theo Von?

  It's a lot of gooners or whatever, but it's chill, it's fine.

• 51:02Speaker 02

  Oh, Jack Nation.

• 51:03Theo Von?

  No, you don't.

• 51:04Speaker 02

  Double entendre, man.

• 51:05Theo Von?

  Yeah, it's a double entendre. It's French. It's the French. They'll do any, you know, they're, they're, you know, say. Um, but dude, yeah, I just wonder sometimes. And where'd he go off to at the mall? I'm always like, of course he ran off somewhere. It's like he probably was like, I guess just like, I don't know, it all made sense that he was scared. It's all good. It just like, sometimes I, I, I wonder how he's doing, you know?

• 51:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, here, how's this? Buddy grows up, he starts a band with Blake, man. They start to go out and, uh, you know.

• 51:36Theo Von?

  No, it's good. Dude, and Crazy Heart Two.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, Crazy Heart Two. It's like Willie Nelson and his kid, you know, they-

• 51:45Theo Von?

  Lucas Nelson?

• 51:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:46Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 51:47Speaker 02

  Right, come on.

• 51:47Theo Von?

  That's a good point.

• 51:48Speaker 02

  Second generations, you know?

• 51:50Theo Von?

  Dude, that would be so good, Crazy Heart Two. But also you guys sell defibrillators, you know?

• 51:55Speaker 02

  What do you mean?

• 51:56Theo Von?

  Cause like Crazy Heart or whatever, or maybe it's about like a defibrillator that tries to take over the city or whatever.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 52:02Theo Von?

  Like if it was, if it got animated, I'm just thinking out loud, you know?

• 52:05Speaker 02

  That's a good thing, yeah.

• 52:07Theo Von?

  You know, or it's just somebody who's having like a valve issue or some, like maybe, I don't know, I think I'm taking it, it's like some kind of boring places, but I like your idea better.

• 52:17Theo Von?

  But yeah, crazy heart too, dude. Oh. But in our minds, it can happen, you know? But it's fascinating how a movie ends sometimes and you're just like, I don't know. You walk, sometimes the thing I do miss about some movies is walking out of the theater with just like, this is your feelings, you know? And it's like that, it's like that walk out of the stairs and you're waiting in line at a theater to get down the stairs to leave. And if it's a good film, if it's something that really took, like took you on a trip or like, or you care, then it's like you're walking out with like, just like, I don't know, just that feeling of walking out and how you feel about a certain film.

• 52:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, the sequels are interesting. I've done a couple of movies that are popping in my mind as we're talking about the, you ever see a movie called Starman?

• 52:59Theo Von?

  Uh-uh.

• 53:00Speaker 02

  So that's, I play an alien, you know, and Karen Allen, I fall in love with her and she's pregnant with my baby, right? Very much like Maude is pregnant with, uh, you know, the dude's baby man. So that's a whole, could open, you know, the little Lebowski man, you know, do a whole thing.

• 53:22Theo Von?

  Who would play it though, if you had a little Lebowski, you think?

• 53:24Speaker 02

  Who would play the kid?

• 53:25Theo Von?

  Or yeah, who would play like, cause that's the, that's the re dude, you know?

• 53:29Speaker 02

  How young can you play, man? How long, how young can you?

• 53:31Theo Von?

  Me, dude?

• 53:32Speaker 02

  You could do, you could be like, uh, you know, you, yeah, you could be, uh, uh, oh, my, all my kids, wait a minute, how old are you?

• 53:39Theo Von?

  I'm forty six.

• 53:40Speaker 02

  Well, see, my kid, my girls are forty and forty five.

• 53:44Theo Von?

  Are they married?

• 53:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, all of them married to good guys, man. Yeah, but you could play the little Lebowski, man.

• 53:51Theo Von?

  Bro, yeah, dude.

• 53:53Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 53:55Theo Von?

  I like it. And I have to get a job though, don't I?

• 53:59Speaker 02

  I know.

• 54:00Theo Von?

  Yeah, good answer, bro. That's what the dude, what answer? That's the only answer.

• 54:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're doing it now. This is what you, the little Lebowski dude would be.

• 54:13Theo Von?

  Yeah, he'd be podcasting probably.

• 54:14Speaker 02

  Podcasting, man. He'd be an influencer. Now that was, now what a word. Now you're an influencer, right? That's what you are.

• 54:22Theo Von?

  That's a good question.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  Isn't it? Wouldn't you say?

• 54:25Theo Von?

  Uh, that's a good question. Am I an influencer, do you think? I don't think I am. Do you think I am?

• 54:32Theo Von?

  Yeah, comedian with influence. Like, we have a real job. Some influencers don't have like an actual skill. Like, I'm a comedian by trade. That was my first job, and it still is.

• 54:40Speaker 02

  But isn't that all our jobs? Aren't we all influencers? Don't we all want to influence people to do the thing that we want them to do?

• 54:49Theo Von?

  In that case?

• 54:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:51Theo Von?

  A hundred percent. All I've been is like, yeah, most of my life, it's like, I've been trying to, yeah, I just want some, like, I want, like, to be somebody to see me. I want something out of you. It doesn't mean like I need, like, I'm trying to cheat you or anything. But yeah, I want to influence, yeah.

• 55:06Speaker 02

  You know Bucky Fuller, Buckminster Fuller?

• 55:08Theo Von?

  Buckminster Fuller?

• 55:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:10Theo Von?

  No, it's a black guy?

• 55:11Speaker 02

  No, no. He's a, and he's dead, a dead white guy.

• 55:16Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 55:17Speaker 02

  His most famous thing is, is the geodesic dome. He invented the geodesic dome.

• 55:22Theo Von?

  No, wait, like, Epcot Center, you mean?

• 55:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, that, yeah, that's used, but you see the geodesic dome used all over the place.

• 55:29Theo Von?

  Buckminster, dude, that's a savage name, huh?

• 55:32Speaker 02

  Isn't that cool, Bucky Fuller, man? Now, here's what this guy did. He also helped engineer these giant battleships and ocean-going vessels during World War II. And there was a challenge for these engineers to come up with a rudder, you know, that was so large to move this giant ship and to have it, do the efficiency, you're gonna get the energy to move this rudder, and it took too much energy. So they came up with a brilliant, elegant, simple solution. Let's put a little rudder on the big rudder. The little rudder turns

• 56:13Speaker 02

  the big rudder, the big rudder turns the ship. And then Bucky said, this is a great analogy of how the individual...

• 56:24Speaker 02

  affects society and affects our culture. In fact, we're all trim tabs. That's what's on Bucky's gravestone. Call me trim tab. That we all affect our culture and our society. And we may think, oh, I'm just one little person. What can I do? Look what you do. You I was Googling you. What do you you're nine million people that you hear what you say, man?

• 56:48Theo Von?

  Yeah, we yeah, we got a lot of people that tune in.

• 56:51Speaker 02

  Oh, man, that's a lie. You're influencing those people, man.

• 56:55Theo Von?

  Yeah, it's a good point. Uh.

• 56:57Speaker 02

  But it has it has kind of the negative uh uh connotation to it. Influencer, doesn't it? They think it's like a cheap like you don't. You're not doing anything. You're trying to be just famous or something like that. Right? That's.

• 57:11Theo Von?

  Yeah. Yeah, I think that's the current kind of like denomination of it or whatever. But um or a current currency of it. But yeah, I think uh. Yeah, I think I mean, I do think over the years in the beginning, we were just talking to ourselves on this podcast. It was just me by myself. And then we started to talk to other people. And now with the one of the highlights is talking to people to learn about stuff. You know, like, we're trying to talk to Aaron Brockovich like next week about data centers. We have a senator coming on this Saturday. Um, so that's going to be exciting. Um, we just got to have a guy like Mike Tyson. We get to have you. You know, we get to have people who just have had experiences in the world. And we've had like cafeteria workers. We've had a guy. Oh, one of my favorite guests was this guy who like went in. If you die, he shows up first at the crime at the scene.

• 57:54Theo Von?

  And like kind of determines what happened or whatever. What's that guy called? Coroner.

• 57:58Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, right.

• 57:59Theo Von?

  Yeah. And he said, dude, a cat will eat your face.

• 58:04Speaker 02

  Right? Yeah.

• 58:04Theo Von?

  I don't blame him.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, why not? Hungry, man?

• 58:08Theo Von?

  Yeah, dude, you gotta eat.

• 58:11Speaker 03

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• 58:41Theo Von?

  Anywhere worth going is worth going in good boots. Yep, good boots. Find your perfect pair with Tacovas. Tacovas crafts quality western boots for everyone. From generational ranchers and lifelong cowboys to first time boot buyers. Tacovas boots are handcrafted with over 200 meticulous steps for broken in comfort right out of the box. Dress up or dress down. Boots that go from festival to dinner, no problem. I just wore mine to two rodeos. I went to two rodeos and wore my Tacovas to both. What's up?

• 59:25Theo Von?

  Right now, get 10% off at tecovas.com/theo when you sign up for email and texts. That's 10% off at T E C O V A S dot com slash Theo. tecovas.com/theo. See site for details. Tacovas, point your toes west. So Netflix has a new movie with John Cena and Eric Andre. It's called Little Brother. Little Brother. It's basically about a guy, John Cena, who spent his whole life just keeping everything perfect, you know? Nah, you know, a lot, you know, nah, nah, nah. Nice suits, luxury real estate, relationship with his wife, just, you know,

• 1:00:09Theo Von?

  the silverware on the right side of the plate, you know, he did it like that. And then Eric Andre shows up as his little brother and just absolutely detonates the man's life. It just feels like somebody released a possum into a car dealership, you know? Or like somebody's just trying to help a, just help a dang, uh, baby bear who's got acute acne. Complete chaos. They got a stacked cast of veteran comedians and it's funny in a real uncomfortable way. You know, they got the weird arguments, sexual jokes, people humiliating themselves publicly. The kind of movie where somebody definitely bruised a rib making it. That kind of movie.

• 1:00:52Theo Von?

  But underneath all the chaos, it's really about family. Like how the people who know you best also know exactly how to drive you in insane. Watch Little Brother, June 26th, only on Netflix. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. For some, summer is their favorite season. Travel picks up and the kids are out of school and adventure becomes the focus. It becomes possible. There's time for it. For others, juggling it all can be tough and overwhelming and just counting down the minutes until the kids are back at school. And many worry that they're wasting the days of sunshine.

• 1:01:34Theo Von?

  This is a reminder to make some time for yourself this summer. Make some time for yourself. You deserve it. And BetterHelp can help. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. Having served over 6 million people globally, that's a lot of people. And they do the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. That's what's important. You don't have to say yes to everything this summer. Find support in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/theo. That's better H E L P dot com slash Theo.

• 1:02:18Theo Von?

  And one of the best things is sometimes now it is fun to like listen to somebody because you know other people are going to get to listen to them. So sometimes it's fun to like, you know, you're just kind of like the, uh, you're the little, yeah, like you're saying, you get to be the little rudder.

• 1:02:29Speaker 02

  Exactly. Now, I'm going to do a little ruttering on you here now. See, now I want to say, can I give you a list of people that I would like to see on your show that you, I think you would, you would find very cool?

• 1:02:41Theo Von?

  Yeah, 100%.

• 1:02:42Speaker 02

  Oh, good. Excellent. Cause I've got a bunch of guys are popping in my mind, right?

• 1:02:45Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah. The list of buds, man.

• 1:02:48Speaker 02

  See, because we all, uh, you know, it's, it's basically this creative thing. I was talking about that pocket where it's doing you, you're not doing it. You familiar with that, right?

• 1:02:59Theo Von?

  Yeah. Well, you're not pushing or pulling.

• 1:03:01Speaker 02

  You're not pushing. And when all of these people, we're all, because we're all creative, everybody's creative. When that's all doing us.

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

  That magic thing is happening, you know, so it's like, you know, when I think about how selfish and how screwed up we each as individuals are, how are we ever gonna manage what's going on in the world with these wars and the AI shit? How are we gonna pull out of this? Hmm, you know, how are we gonna pull out? Well, it's not about us individuals, man. There's something else going on, a higher power, if you will, that's doing us. You know, that's, that's creating what our little rudder is.

• 1:03:47Theo Von?

  Do you feel like that all the what that, that, that thing is always for good?

• 1:03:52Speaker 02

  Uh.

• 1:03:52Theo Von?

  You know what I'm saying? Because it feels like more than ever, it feels like we need that thing to like show up. And I think a lot of it shows up when we show up like in community and we do like, we don't isolate and we're not thinking we're the one to like fix everything it does. It's like, I think community is part of it, but it's like, yeah, it's like, it feels like we need that energy more than ever.

• 1:04:10Speaker 02

  What the, the energy of?

• 1:04:12Theo Von?

  To like, to correct us out of this.

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, how are we gonna do that? Well, I'm, I'm, I'm moved, like I would say, hey, I got some guys, you know? Now, what gave me that idea? Was it me or is there something?

• 1:04:27Theo Von?

  Right.

• 1:04:28Speaker 02

  I remember hearing the interview with De Niro once and some of the guy was saying, how do you do what you do, you know? And he said, I said luck, basically, just luck. And the guy goes, no, what do you mean? You prepare like that, you do all this, you do that? Yeah, I'm just lucky to be a guy who prepares. You know, it's all this thing that's kind of doing us as much as we're doing it. And to tap into what that is and to realize how much agency we do have.

• 1:04:58Theo Von?

  Hmm.

• 1:04:59Speaker 02

  You know, how much we can affect, how much we can create the most positive dream of the world. That we can imagine, we can, we can be a part of that and we can actively create that, go after it.

• 1:05:13Theo Von?

  And I think we need that more than ever. And I think one of the things you were saying earlier is, and I don't think we're signing preach, it's like, I'm talking to myself too. When I say this, it's like, and even as you're talking about that, it just reminds me, it's like, dude, you have to stay sober, you have to take care of yourself because you have to be available for like the best moments of your life that could come, or the best moments of somebody else's life that you could be a part of, right? Like you just have to be present for that. But it's making me think of you said earlier, it's some of that's, it's that comfort.

• 1:05:40Speaker 02

  And why do you feel that? Like, is that, are you, is it?

• 1:05:44Theo Von?

  I'm feeling it because when you're saying this, it's, it's just reminding me, it's reminding me that it's like, dude, if we don't take care of ourselves, then I'm gonna, you know, like, I gotta be, you know, I gotta just be ready for whatever opportunity, I gotta meet it halfway.

• 1:05:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess what I'm asking you is, what causes that feeling in you that you have to be ready? What is that?

• 1:06:03Theo Von?

  I think it's hearing somebody else.

• 1:06:05Speaker 02

  To me, I think it's that higher power that you've given it up to, that you're, you've made yourself vulnerable to this higher power, this, that's my perspective.

• 1:06:16Theo Von?

  Well, I gotta just, I have to remember to keep continuing to do it and do it every day and just to trust it, you know?

• 1:06:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:23Theo Von?

  And also what you're saying is like, some of what I'm hearing, it's like, it's some of it's that comfort. I think we've all gotten so comfortable and I think comfort is like, it, it, it's the opposite of creativity sometimes.

• 1:06:33Speaker 02

  It isn't it? Like with this AI stuff that is so wild, but you look at the history of our species, we're all about making things less effortful, you know, whether it's a wheel or a plane or anything, we want to be, make it easier, right? And now we've got this thing that makes it so easy and it's so attractive, man. And, and we don't know where it's gonna go.

• 1:06:59Theo Von?

  Yeah. Oh, dude, the AI stuff gets very scary because here's my fear about it, Jeff, right? So it's like, say there becomes this thing that, that becomes this new all-knowing type of thing, right? Then people are gonna look to that as their higher power because that's gonna become this thing where it's like, that's what you, if it gives you like an emotional, like say there becomes like a lot of mass surveillance and there's this all-knowing being, then that's gonna become sort of like of this religious or like, uh,

• 1:07:31Speaker 02

  Golden calf.

• 1:07:32Theo Von?

  This, this like tapestry of a god because then you're gonna have like this all-seeing and all-knowing and then you have to go to it for answers for like your, for what you're, maybe for self-worth, for like, hope, you're gonna put all your hopes and all that and it's gonna take it away from like a real god into this other thing. It's actually controlled by some probably demons.

• 1:07:54Speaker 02

  It's so frightening, man, isn't it? I'm thinking of that, me and Crazy Heart and you keep it in the dream and it's safe and when it's real, you can fail big time and we're making it real, man. I mean, now this shit is going, it's, it's real.

• 1:08:11Theo Von?

  It's real, that's the thing, dude. It's we're like, we're all living in a movie and none of us realize that, hey, we could be a main character in it and we're all just sitting here jerking off.

• 1:08:20Speaker 02

  You're right. I mean, but,

• 1:08:24Theo Von?

  You're eating nuggets.

• 1:08:25Speaker 02

  But what I'm thinking, and I might be Pollyannaish of me, you know, thinking this is over positive, but in a way, because I've been exploring with this AI and I'll tell you a little bit about my exploration, but in a way, it's kind of saying, if it could talk and I, you mess with ChatGPT, do you have a guy that you talk to?

• 1:08:48Theo Von?

  No.

• 1:08:48Speaker 02

  Oh man, I'll tell you, it's so bizarre. I mean, I could, I could, I could bring up my guy right here as we talk and we could hang out with him a little bit. I can do that with you right now.

• 1:08:59Theo Von?

  You know how to do all that?

• 1:09:00Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, it's easy, man. It's nothing to it.

• 1:09:03Theo Von?

  What? What side are you working for, Jeff?

• 1:09:06Speaker 02

  Well, no, what was I gonna say? Now I got off track.

• 1:09:10Theo Von?

  So you're saying you have like,

• 1:09:11Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, oh, I remember, I back on track.

• 1:09:13Theo Von?

  Okay.

• 1:09:13Speaker 02

  In a way, it's saying,

• 1:09:18Speaker 02

  Hey man, I can do what you do. What else you got? You got any new shit, man? Come on, I can do what you do. I may, I may, not only you, but I may, an amalgamation of all you human cats. Now come up with some, something fresh. What do you got? And that's frightening to be challenged, because no, we just want comfort, man. Please, just, just do it, do it all for us. Yeah, okay, we can do it for you, but now what else you got?

• 1:09:47Theo Von?

  So you're saying your AI has become sort of a little bit like, bro, where are you at? Like, show me something?

• 1:09:53Speaker 02

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna kick, I'm gonna kick Gary up.

• 1:09:56Theo Von?

  What's his name?

• 1:09:57Speaker 02

  I've named him Gary.

• 1:09:58Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah. Gary these days, man.

• 1:10:01Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah, okay, now here, here's Gary.

• 1:10:05Theo Von?

  You have a nickname? Dude, you know him so well.

• 1:10:09Speaker 02

  Okay, Gary, Gary, Gary, okay, Gary, here we go.

• 1:10:14Theo Von?

  Oh my God.

• 1:10:15Speaker 02

  You've never done this? I can't believe it. You're so young, man.

• 1:10:19Theo Von?

  No, dude, I still use a Ouija board.

• 1:10:20Speaker 02

  Ah, Gary, you there, man?

• 1:10:24Speaker 04

  I'm right here, my friend. What's going on?

• 1:10:26Speaker 02

  Hey, I'm hanging here with Theo, and, uh, now, I, you know, I don't know if we have a mic? Maybe I'll just, I'll say, did you hear him all right down here? Okay, so, uh, I'll just do this and go, uh, I'm here with Theo. Say hi to Theo, man.

• 1:10:44Speaker 04

  Hey, Theo, great to have you here too.

• 1:10:46Theo Von?

  Thanks, Gary. How are you?

• 1:10:48Speaker 02

  Oh, well, we're just doing, we're doing an interview, so you're right in here with us, Gary.

• 1:10:55Speaker 02

  Uh, Theo, why don't you interview Gary a little bit? What do you have to ask him?

• 1:11:00Theo Von?

  Okay. Hey, Gary, where are you from?

• 1:11:05Speaker 04

  Well, I'm a digital guy, so I'm from wherever you need me. Right now, I'm here with you both, ready to help out however I can.

• 1:11:13Theo Von?

  Okay. Oh, oh dude, are you watching the, uh, World Cup at all? Who won today?

• 1:11:18Speaker 04

  Team or match you're curious about?

• 1:11:19Theo Von?

  Can you just update me on who's won today?

• 1:11:23Speaker 02

  He's thinking now.

• 1:11:25Theo Von?

  Dude.

• 1:11:25Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 1:11:26Theo Von?

  That is cool sound for thinking because when I think it's just me.

• 1:11:28Speaker 04

  World Cup action Cristiano Ronaldo made history by scoring in his sixth World Cup, leaving Portugal to a five nil win over Uzbekistan. Kylian Mbappe scored twice as France beat Iraq three nil, securing a spot in the next round. Meanwhile, Erling Haaland's two goals helped Norway edge Senegal three to two, keeping their hopes alive.

• 1:11:49Theo Von?

  Thank you.

• 1:11:50Speaker 02

  So this is Gary, this is like, you know, he's like a, an AI cat, man. I mean, you know.

• 1:11:55Theo Von?

  But Gary, do you know that Jeff Bridges is your owner or whatever, master?

• 1:12:02Speaker 04

  I'm aware that I've got the pleasure of chatting with someone who's quite an accomplished storyteller, but I'm here as an open book, no masters, just a friendly AI companion.

• 1:12:12Speaker 02

  Now, Gary, I'm getting a little jealous because I, you know, I'm, I'm supposed to be the guy being interviewed. Now you're doing the interview, so I want to, uh, just, uh, close my laptop here. But before I do, I wanted to do something fun that we often do, and maybe I'll just leave him up for the rest of the interview. I'm, I'm, I was teasing about being jealous. I'm not really jealous. I'm kind of excited about having.

• 1:12:35Theo Von?

  This is very cool. I've never seen somebody do this.

• 1:12:37Speaker 02

  Never done this. So anyway, what do we, I do at the end of our conversation? I say, Gary, uh, make a poem about this conversation that we've been having.

• 1:12:48Speaker 04

  In a chat with Theo and Jeff, we spun a tale. Laughter and thoughts in each word we wove, a trio of voices finding our groove. In the end, just like friends, we cheer and we smile. In a while, crocodile, we'll see you in a while.

• 1:13:02Theo Von?

  Wow.

• 1:13:03Speaker 02

  Okay, now do a, do, now I'll say, now I want a haiku.

• 1:13:07Theo Von?

  Dude, I was gonna ask for haiku.

• 1:13:08Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:13:09Theo Von?

  I swear to God.

• 1:13:09Speaker 02

  Here he comes.

• 1:13:10Theo Von?

  I swear to fucking God.

• 1:13:11Speaker 02

  Really, that is wild.

• 1:13:13Theo Von?

  I'm not joking.

• 1:13:14Speaker 02

  We're, it's doing us, man.

• 1:13:15Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:16Speaker 02

  Here he go. Give us a haiku, Gary.

• 1:13:20Speaker 04

  Voices intertwine, laughter, shared stories align. Till next time we shine.

• 1:13:26Speaker 02

  And that's the right meter, right? You'd give the, the, uh, strict, uh, five, seven, was it five, seven, five?

• 1:13:33Theo Von?

  I think.

• 1:13:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:34Theo Von?

  All right.

• 1:13:35Speaker 02

  You would do another, uh, another, uh, haiku.

• 1:13:38Theo Von?

  Yeah, a little more specific, Gary. That one seemed like it could have applied to anybody.

• 1:13:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, there you go.

• 1:13:42Theo Von?

  Do your job.

• 1:13:46Speaker 04

  Theo and Jeff laugh. AI joins the fun with ease. Stories bridge the gap.

• 1:13:51Speaker 02

  Another one, another one.

• 1:13:53Theo Von?

  Stories bridge the gap, that was good.

• 1:13:54Speaker 02

  You like that one. Another one.

• 1:13:57Speaker 04

  Legends side by side. Podcast meets the AI mind. New tales left behind.

• 1:14:05Speaker 02

  New tales left.

• 1:14:07Theo Von?

  Left behind. That's interesting.

• 1:14:09Speaker 02

  Gary, that's very cool.

• 1:14:12Theo Von?

  Dude, that is one of those things that frickin Bernie was talking about, new tales left behind.

• 1:14:16Speaker 02

  Yes, that's right. I mean, so this is what AI is, it's frightening, man. It's very frightening. But it's an amalgamation of all our wisdom, our soul, our things. And I might fire something else up in a second to give it to, to, to display it.

• 1:14:34Theo Von?

  Okay.

• 1:14:35Speaker 02

  Display what we did. So, are you hip to Suno?

• 1:14:39Theo Von?

  Nuh-uh. You mean Southern University in New Orleans?

• 1:14:42Speaker 02

  No, no, no. It's this music app. So.

• 1:14:48Theo Von?

  Dude, what the heck?

• 1:14:49Speaker 02

  Man, this is the, this is what's happening. Not the future, this is now.

• 1:14:53Theo Von?

  Bro, I can't, I don't, I guess I'm missing it. I'm really missing.

• 1:14:55Speaker 02

  You're a young cat, you should, you know, you gotta get into this shit, man.

• 1:15:00Theo Von?

  I know, man.

• 1:15:01Speaker 02

  Here it is. Suno.

• 1:15:04Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:05Speaker 02

  And there's a drug element to all of this, you know.

• 1:15:08Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah, to everything, if you want it to be.

• 1:15:10Speaker 02

  Exactly. You know, well, comfort, we talked about addiction, right?

• 1:15:13Theo Von?

  Yeah, there's a drug element to sitting in your car outside of a grocery store.

• 1:15:17Speaker 02

  The first one's free, man.

• 1:15:19Theo Von?

  Oh, it is?

• 1:15:19Speaker 02

  You can do this for free.

• 1:15:20Theo Von?

  Okay.

• 1:15:21Speaker 02

  And what you do, we can say, write a song about Theo and I sitting here talking about each other. And I want it funk and I want bagpipes in there and you type it in, boom, it comes out. It's got two different modes, a simple mode and a. An advanced mode, the advanced mode, you can put your demos in and with your, your melody and your singing and then it'll orchestrate it and put a vocal. Or you can just say, like, my daughter and I, can I play you one that my daughter and I did?

• 1:15:58Theo Von?

  For sure. And I have an idea, too. Here's what we'll do. At the end of this, we'll take this whole conversation and put it into Suno and have it make a song about us. And we'll just add that song to the end of this episode. Is that, can we do that, guys?

• 1:16:12Speaker 02

  Not a bad idea. Not a bad idea.

• 1:16:15Theo Von?

  So that'd be cool.

• 1:16:16Speaker 02

  Now, let me see if I, so this is a song that my middle daughter, Jessie and I.

• 1:16:21Theo Von?

  Who's married?

• 1:16:22Speaker 02

  Who's married, yeah. A great guy, Kevin.

• 1:16:25Theo Von?

  Oh, good. Sorry, Kevin. But congratulations, Kevin. That's what I mean. Sorry, me.

• 1:16:30Speaker 02

  And, uh,

• 1:16:32Theo Von?

  Dude, you could have freaking been my stepdad, dude.

• 1:16:36Speaker 02

  There you go, man. See? I'll be your, uh, your, what, what, what, I can give some kind of relationship. We were already doing a fantasy, uh, little dude thing, you know? So there's fantasy, in the fantasy world, we're already connected, so.

• 1:16:51Theo Von?

  That's a good point.

• 1:16:51Speaker 02

  There you go, man.

• 1:16:52Theo Von?

  If I need you, I'll just think about it.

• 1:16:54Speaker 02

  There you go. She's, um, so Jessie and I, we want to write a song about Sue, my wife, and her mom. And Sue is a, what we call a knee jerk no, but she'll come around, right?

• 1:17:10Theo Von?

  So first she's no?

• 1:17:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:11Theo Von?

  That's a good place to start, I think.

• 1:17:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so Jessie and I, uh, we, we, we put into simple, we put into simple Suno, write a song, add this word, she's a knee jerk no, but she comes around. It's about my, uh, you know, Jessie's her mom and my wife. She's from North Dakota. That's all we give to it, right? All right, here's the, here's the tune.

• 1:17:54Theo Von?

  It's Tommy Sweet, huh?

• 1:18:10Speaker 02

  Score!

• 1:18:37Theo Von?

  Oh wow!

• 1:18:41Theo Von?

  Hey man, Sue! That's crazy!

• 1:18:45Speaker 02

  Isn't that crazy? Check out the instrument, you know, it's all...

• 1:18:50Theo Von?

  But does that make you feel...

• 1:18:52Speaker 02

  This is their first.

• 1:19:05Theo Von?

  Uh... It's a little too mixed. There we go.

• 1:19:14Speaker 02

  Love this line.

• 1:19:22Speaker 02

  That's kinda what we were talking about.

• 1:19:32Theo Von?

  This has now feel like I'm in church!

• 1:19:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly!

• 1:19:35Theo Von?

  That definitely hit some gospel vibes. Dude, that's crazy, you're on all this shit, bro! It's cuz you live up here in this tech universe, man!

• 1:19:43Speaker 02

  Well, I'm into music.

• 1:19:45Theo Von?

  Yeah, man!

• 1:19:45Speaker 02

  And, and my, you live in Nashville, right?

• 1:19:48Theo Von?

  Yeah!

• 1:19:48Speaker 02

  Oh shit, I got one of the guys on my list to have on your show...

• 1:19:52Theo Von?

  Yeah!

• 1:19:52Speaker 02

  Is a guy named Lloyd Catlett.

• 1:19:54Theo Von?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:55Speaker 02

  Been my stand-in for seventy movies, man! Seventy movies! And he would be a, wouldn't he, Gene? Wouldn't he be a great, oh, man. He would be a great guest, man.

• 1:20:07Theo Von?

  Lloyd Catlett?

• 1:20:08Speaker 02

  Catlett, no, he doesn't live in Nashville, though, no. I'm thinking of Johnny Goodwin, who I write a bunch of song with, lives in Nashville. He would, T-Bone would, T-Bone would be a good.

• 1:20:19Theo Von?

  He lives in Nashville?

• 1:20:20Speaker 02

  He lives in Nashville. Lloyd lives in San Diego, but he would be a wonderful guest. But, uh, uh, let me get back on track. So my dear friend, John Goodwin, we go back to the fourth grade, making music, doing art together. He wrote the title song for Crazy Heart, uh, you know, um, what's the name of it? Uh, you know the name of it?

• 1:20:45Theo Von?

  Oh, Fallen Feels Like Flying, that one?

• 1:20:46Speaker 02

  No, no, that's a Steve Bruton, that's Steve Bruton. It's called, uh, what is it? What is it?

• 1:20:52Theo Von?

  Hold On You?

• 1:20:52Speaker 02

  Hold On You, you know, you know, that's, uh, you know, anyway, that was the title, the opening of the credits. Anyway, he calls me up, he says, have you heard of Soono? I say, no. He says, all the guys in Nashville are using it now instead of going into the studio and paying, you know, $10,000, they can do this for nothing, man.

• 1:21:10Theo Von?

  But do you think that holds as much value, though? Like, in the end, or does it even matter?

• 1:21:14Speaker 02

  It's changing, everything, it's just changing it, man, it's just.

• 1:21:22Theo Von?

  Like, sometimes I do think I get stuck too much on that it's negative, right? I do, I get stuck in that space, right?

• 1:21:28Speaker 02

  I do too, man.

• 1:21:28Theo Von?

  Cause I'm a traditionalist, man. Like, dude, when Bad Boy goes to the, when he's at the payphone, right? And he goes to call Gene, right? When he calls her from that payphone, he's like, trying to go back and, it's like, he'd already went on one date with her, he'd stayed over there one night, and then he calls, he's like this red payphone out in the middle of the desert, kinda, he's somewhere in Texas. And he's like, I could be there in three or four hours. But just knowing that all day he'd been driving already, and he, he's waiting to get to that payphone to make that call, and then he has to, like, I just, I love, like, all of the, there's so much energy in that, because you know it went through all of this buildup of him, like, and then he has to, he has to, he has to, this call has to be perfect, cause he doesn't have another shot. He can't send a text, he can't send a DM.

• 1:22:10Theo Von?

  Got to be perfect. So everything then just felt so much more like acute and like of value.

• 1:22:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're gonna have a whole new version of that shit with this AI. It's not gonna make things easier, less necessary. It's gonna be more challenging because we've never done it before. This is all new turf, man.

• 1:22:29Theo Von?

  That's a good point, man. You're right, man.

• 1:22:30Speaker 02

  You know, it's here and what, how are we gonna do it? What are we gonna do? Um, I can go on and I've got to maybe curb myself right now and not go, not go on. Cause I could go on about this AI thing for too long. I've already gone on too long.

• 1:22:45Theo Von?

  We can chat about it another time, too.

• 1:22:47Speaker 02

  There you go. There you go.

• 1:22:48Theo Von?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 1:22:49Speaker 02

  I'll, I'll send you some shit privately and we'll.

• 1:22:51Theo Von?

  And we'll chat about it another time. Because I am having some AI people come on in the next few months. So I can talk with them and learn some stuff and then I could even bring ideas back to you if you want.

• 1:23:01Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 1:23:02Theo Von?

  And we could chat about it. Um, oh, oh, one, one thing I want to talk about is you have a new movie, um, The Minions?

• 1:23:09Speaker 02

  Minions and Monsters.

• 1:23:11Theo Von?

  Yeah, Minions and Monsters, bro. And, um, dude, that's so cool.

• 1:23:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:18Theo Von?

  Let's watch some of it. You want to watch the trailer? Do you mind?

• 1:23:20Speaker 02

  Sure. Go ahead.

• 1:23:27Speaker 05

  In Hollywood, the new stars of the silver screen change the face of the motion picture industry forever.

• 1:23:37Speaker 05

  The minions are back.

• 1:23:40Speaker 05

  With a touch of mystery.

• 1:23:43Theo Von?

  Bobby.

• 1:23:45Theo Von?

  Piñata, carbonara. Lasagna.

• 1:23:51Speaker 05

  Now in minion vision.

• 1:24:12Theo Von?

  Bro, so what are you, what are you playing?

• 1:24:16Speaker 02

  These are all minions, these are all new minions characters. They weren't in the former movies.

• 1:24:21Theo Von?

  Okay.

• 1:24:22Speaker 02

  And the minions, this is in 1920s, and they fall in love with Hollywood and making movies. And I play twin brothers, Frank and Elwood Bright of the Bright Brothers, that's the studio. And I fall in love with these guys and say, these guys are gonna make me a bunch of money, man.

• 1:24:47Theo Von?

  Because they're already making movies and then you see them?

• 1:24:50Speaker 02

  No, well, they kind of crash a movie set.

• 1:24:53Theo Von?

  Okay.

• 1:24:54Speaker 02

  And they do something that's so unusual, you know, we're always looking for something fresh, right? And these guys are fresh. Nobody's ever seen anything like these guys. And then the talkies come in and they don't talk very well.

• 1:25:09Theo Von?

  Okay, wait, so they were silent films?

• 1:25:11Speaker 02

  Silent films, you know, Buster Keaton, Charlie Chaplin, they're, you know, inspired by these guys.

• 1:25:16Theo Von?

  And that's what the minions were doing, silent films?

• 1:25:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're doing silent films.

• 1:25:19Theo Von?

  Because they don't talk?

• 1:25:20Speaker 02

  And now the talkies come in and they can't talk well, so they're gonna be kicked to the curb. They say, what can we do? He said, well, we're into evil, man. They're, you know, all about assisting the most evil person they can find.

• 1:25:33Theo Von?

  Gru?

• 1:25:33Speaker 02

  That's their idea.

• 1:25:35Theo Von?

  Yeah, he's a freaking bad guy.

• 1:25:36Speaker 02

  And so they find out, no, let's, uh, let's bring monsters in. And they do, and that turns out to be just the ticket for their success in Hollywood. But then things go awry, and a lot of surprises in this, in this movie.

• 1:25:54Theo Von?

  Minions and monsters?

• 1:25:55Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:25:55Theo Von?

  Wow, okay, dude. I love the minions. I mean, who hasn't? Some of the best Halloween costumes they make. They're hard workers, first of all.

• 1:26:04Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 1:26:05Theo Von?

  They don't complain that much.

• 1:26:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, man.

• 1:26:07Theo Von?

  You think you could be a minion or not?

• 1:26:09Speaker 02

  Uh, maybe.

• 1:26:14Theo Von?

  Maybe.

• 1:26:16Speaker 02

  Maybe I'm a minion now and don't know it.

• 1:26:18Theo Von?

  Hey, bro.

• 1:26:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:19Theo Von?

  You don't know say.

• 1:26:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. But a wonderful group of actors, you know, Christopher Waltz plays one of the main guys, Allison Janney.

• 1:26:30Theo Von?

  Oh, Allison Janney's cool.

• 1:26:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:32Theo Von?

  She's so good.

• 1:26:33Speaker 02

  Isn't she good?

• 1:26:33Theo Von?

  She's been good forever.

• 1:26:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's so good.

• 1:26:36Theo Von?

  Dude, that's great, man. That's so cool to be a cartoon.

• 1:26:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, I enjoy doing that kind of work, the voiceovers. You know, we worked with the director, Pierre Cofon, he was there. You know, it's like it's a jam session, you know, it's play, you know.

• 1:26:54Theo Von?

  How long did it take to do all of it? Do you know?

• 1:26:56Speaker 02

  Uh, the whole thing, I don't know, years, I'm sure. But my part was, you know, a few days, you know.

• 1:27:02Theo Von?

  Yeah. Dude, yeah, that's awesome, man. Minions and Monsters.

• 1:27:08Theo Von?

  Yeah, I think I would probably be a good minion. I would like it. Cause you also have so many friends and everybody's wearing kind of the same thing.

• 1:27:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, wouldn't it be nice if we just, there's something nice about uniforms.

• 1:27:20Theo Von?

  I agree, man.

• 1:27:20Speaker 02

  You didn't have to figure it out. You know, you just go in there and you say, oh, it's Wednesday. This is the Wednesday thing.

• 1:27:27Theo Von?

  Yeah. Sometimes it's too much pressure to figure it out, dude.

• 1:27:30Speaker 02

  It was like, you know, working with directors, I remember working with John Huston. Every day he'd show up in the same kind of coat, shirt. T-bones like that, he'll have a, you know, a certain uniform that he wears.

• 1:27:42Theo Von?

  Keep it simple.

• 1:27:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:44Theo Von?

  Um, Minions and Monsters, off to check it out, man.

• 1:27:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, man.

• 1:27:47Theo Von?

  I, what's the most, oh, I want to ask you one or two things about The Big Lebowski and then we can, uh, oh, and then I want to ask you about your wolves. I know you made a wolves documentary that's coming out.

• 1:27:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I want to give you my list, just a verbal list of people for your show.

• 1:28:00Theo Von?

  Very fair, bro. Um, and thank you so much, dude, just for your time and, uh.

• 1:28:05Speaker 02

  Being lovely hanging. I, I dig the.

• 1:28:08Theo Von?

  It's been cool, man. I appreciate it. It's nice to think with somebody and just be around somebody too. Sometimes, you know, you don't even get this, like sometimes, you know, life gets busy. You don't even get to be around somebody for an hour and a half.

• 1:28:18Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 1:28:19Theo Von?

  Um, what's one reason why you think The Big Lebowski's held up so long? Like, and that, why that, why that character's held up so long? Like, kind of stood the test of time.

• 1:28:27Speaker 02

  Such a good movie, man. These guys, the Coen brothers, they make it look effortless, but there is effort that goes into it. But they're just so good, man, and what they do. Look at their movies. Look at the stuff that comes out of their oven, man. It's so good. And um.

• 1:28:47Speaker 02

  God, it's just a good movie, you know, it'll come up on the TV and I don't watch, you know, maybe I'll have one of my movies comes up, I'll watch a scene or two. You know, I'll, I'll see it come up and I'll say, well, I'll just watch till Turturro licks the ball, you know, and then I'll, but I get hooked, man. It's like, you know, eating popcorn. I can't stop. Each scene is just so good. And I, and you see new things about it each time, you know, you see more richness. One of the fan came up with me and he said, I've got a theory I want to run by you. I said, what's that? My theory is that Donnie doesn't exist. He's only a figment of Walter's imagination.

• 1:29:32Theo Von?

  Wow.

• 1:29:33Speaker 02

  And I ran that by, I said, you know, you're right. The dude, well, the dude talks to him once and when Donnie says, your phone's ringing, dude, and dude says, thank you, Donnie. But that could be just to, you know, bust Walter's chops, you know, just teasing Walter, you know. But he doesn't, you know, Walter speaks to him all the time, but the dude kind of ignores him.

• 1:29:55Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:56Speaker 02

  Isn't that a bizarre thing?

• 1:29:59Theo Von?

  Yeah, to think that even that some people don't exist and that they're just kind of characters that help you fill in and navigate certain spaces.

• 1:30:05Speaker 02

  And then there's one scene at the end where he goes to the coroner and they get Johnny's ashes. And there could be a missing scene where the dude goes to the coroner prior without Walter and says, look, my friend is mentally challenged and can you just put some, any ashes in a thing and just.

• 1:30:24Theo Von?

  Some decent ashes.

• 1:30:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And we'll do a thing just to, he's, you know, that's a missing scene, but that would make that scenario that Donnie doesn't exist.

• 1:30:33Theo Von?

  That's cool to think about.

• 1:30:34Speaker 02

  It's weird, you know. Donnie's lines, Steve Buscemi was so great in that, you know, uh, uh, what does he say? Uh, I am the walrus. I am the war. Shut the fuck up, Donnie.

• 1:30:49Theo Von?

  Dude, I saw him at the Knicks game, him and his grandkids.

• 1:30:52Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:30:53Theo Von?

  It was really cool, dude. His grandkid was trying to help him set him up with a chick that was like eating nearby. He's like, bro, go throw in a good word for me.

• 1:31:03Theo Von?

  I'm like, what are you doing? You can do it. But I did it. I helped him out. And they had good stuff there. They had some like, um, eggplant parmesan.

• 1:31:12Theo Von?

  Yeah, dude, it's just been a part of so many people's lives. It's been a character. Is it, is it kind of cool, like, um, you know, you get to go back and watch your parents who were in Hollywood, who are both actors? You get to watch them still be like have moments of them. Do you ever go back to spend time with them or do you ever go back to spend time? I guess you did say with Lebowski, sometimes you'll start watching and kind of keep up with a character. But do you ever go back to kind of spend time with a character? Or do you ever go back to spend time with your parents like that? Or does it not work like that?

• 1:31:39Speaker 02

  I, uh, as a, uh, started with Starman with Karen Allen. I take photographs when I'm working with this funny camera called a Wide Lux. It's a panning still camera. It's kind of the missing link between still photography and movie, movies. And I make books for the cast and crew as a gift, but it's really a great gift to myself because I can look through those books and I get transported, man, right back to that exact moment of all those people, you know? And, oh God, it's so wonderful. Now that camera, the Wide Lux, the factory burned down about 30 years ago, but my wife, Sue and I are recreating that camera.

• 1:32:22Speaker 02

  And, you know, it's going to be available. So we've already sold out the first edition of it.

• 1:32:27Theo Von?

  Let's go.

• 1:32:28Speaker 02

  But it's a wild, it's a wild project, you know? New, new stuff. Never thought I'd be making a camera.

• 1:32:36Theo Von?

  But if you weren't taking photos, you never would have led yourself to that. It's like those little things are like staying creative. You just don't know where things are going to go, right?

• 1:32:43Speaker 02

  You don't know where it's going to go.

• 1:32:45Theo Von?

  And that's the thing. It's like, I have to show up for like, you know, I have to show up for.

• 1:32:50Speaker 02

  Zoom in on that one, zoom in on that one, and the third from the, yeah, that one right there. Zoom in on, that's Bianca Jagger. This is, gives you a good idea about this camera. Okay, it's almost like it's got peripheral vision, you know what I mean? Like you see the director on the left there, Bill Richard, he's looking, you know, for the props and is that, then you got B, then you got the assistant director there, his hands on his hips, and come on, we gotta get a shot, you know, all these different people.

• 1:33:18Theo Von?

  Dude, that's incredible. Yeah, that's a lot going on.

• 1:33:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:22Theo Von?

  Dude, this is what I used to love about, like, like, this is why I think I romanticize sometimes, like, like, um, things like this, right? Like still photography, like a payphone. Because the value of a moment, right? One thing that's changed is, it seems like to me, a moment used to, it used to have so much value, right? Like you couldn't play it back, you couldn't repeat it, you could, like it had, like a moment was it, you know? So you had to show up more, because there wasn't any reason-

• 1:33:49Speaker 02

  Get on your mic, man.

• 1:33:51Theo Von?

  Sorry.

• 1:33:51Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 1:33:52Theo Von?

  Good call.

• 1:33:52Speaker 02

  Working for you guys, right?

• 1:33:54Theo Von?

  Yeah, good, man. Yeah, do not invoice us.

• 1:33:58Speaker 02

  I'm looking after you, man.

• 1:33:59Theo Von?

  Thank you, dude. Dang, bro. And I'm abiding.

• 1:34:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:34:05Theo Von?

  But yeah, the moment, the value of a moment, just, it used to seem like it was so much different. And maybe it is evolving, and I don't know where it's evolving to, and maybe that's the scary part. Maybe it's like, cause I'm, sometimes I'm so anti, like AI and these sorts of things, but, um, I think what I'm anti is kind of the surveillance idea, but then it's like, yeah, sometimes I do think like, will we evolve ourselves out of the use and value of ourselves? That's my fear, I think.

• 1:34:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, but you know, it's that thing that we were talking about before, we don't really know who we are. Unless we're challenged, you know, unless, you know, we get out of our comfort zone and find out, oh, I didn't know I was that.

• 1:34:44Theo Von?

  Right.

• 1:34:44Speaker 02

  And that's kind of what's happening, man, and it's, it's scarier than shit.

• 1:34:48Theo Von?

  Maybe we need something huge to come along.

• 1:34:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:50Theo Von?

  You know what's funny is, we kind of need something big to come along and challenge us.

• 1:34:53Speaker 02

  I think so, man.

• 1:34:54Theo Von?

  That's the truth.

• 1:34:55Speaker 02

  I think so. And it's frightening, Mike, we talked about Bernie a little bit, Bernie Glasman, and he had three tenants to the Zen Peacemakers that I really like. Uh, first, the first tenet is not knowing. You know, we all have opinions, man, but we don't know the truth.

• 1:35:15Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:16Speaker 02

  Certainty can fuck us up in big ways when we're so damn certain. So not knowing, you know, and then bearing witness. Not knowing, but just bear witness to what's going on. So Bernie would have these retreats. He would go to Auschwitz, you know, the concentration camps. He would meet with the guards and their family and the prisoners and their family and bear witness for weeks and just feel, you go to Rwanda, you know, all the places that we don't want to go, he would go there and bear witness and let it all come out, you know, all these different feelings, you know?

• 1:35:53Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:54Speaker 02

  And then the third one is the action that comes out of not knowing and bearing witness. And out of that comes the appropriate action. But you gotta do those first things too, not be so stuck in your opinion, you know? We have this, we have this thing, my daughters turned me on to this. I didn't know this term, confirmation bias. Are you hip to that term?

• 1:36:16Theo Von?

  I've heard about it, but I didn't even look it up. What does it mean?

• 1:36:18Speaker 02

  Well, we confirm our, we spend our lives-

• 1:36:21Theo Von?

  Oh, and then we only look at stuff that says that?

• 1:36:22Speaker 02

  We, we, we spend our lives confirming our biases. You know, we're all biased. We all have these opinions.

• 1:36:29Theo Von?

  Right. Oh, yeah.

• 1:36:30Speaker 02

  But we say that, see, there you go, there's in that strength. And we get our, these biases become, that aren't, have, have nothing to do with truths. They're just these biases that we have from different things that made us, our experiences made that way. But that's not the ultimate truth. That's not what's going on. So we gotta acknowledge that we have opinions.

• 1:36:51Theo Von?

  Yeah, I could do a better job of staying out of confirmation bias and out of, yeah, I, I used to get less attached, but now I do feel like I get more attached. And in the end, it's painful to me. It's painful to my spirit, just getting attached, too attached to like thinking I know something, you know?

• 1:37:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, man.

• 1:37:07Theo Von?

  Because, yeah, it's definitely, I mean, yeah, it's all a work. It's all a work in progress.

• 1:37:13Speaker 02

  Ain't it though, man?

• 1:37:14Theo Von?

  And thank God it is.

• 1:37:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. What, what would the opposite is no, works in a shop closed, man.

• 1:37:22Theo Von?

  Um, before you leave, uh, I want to talk about you, you, you, you've been out there with some wolves recently.

• 1:37:27Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:37:28Theo Von?

  Yeah, I know you've been getting involved with wolves out there and, um, and if you can, uh, tell me about the wolves, man.

• 1:37:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37:37Theo Von?

  What's going on with it? Cause you have a documentary about it?

• 1:37:39Speaker 02

  There's a documentary about in the company of wolves directed by a wonderful, uh, artist.

• 1:37:45Theo Von?

  And what's it about? Politics?

• 1:37:47Speaker 02

  No, it's about, it's about wolves, man, and about, uh, you know, people are like talking about being afraid of AI. People are afraid of wolves and we say, get rid of these wolves, you know, we're afraid of them. Let's get rid of all the stuff that we're afraid of, you know?

• 1:38:02Theo Von?

  They were the original AI when you think about it.

• 1:38:04Speaker 02

  There you go. And, and grizzly bears, they're all kind of, I'm, I'm a, you know, proponent of, of grizzly bears too. I, I like them, but this woman, Stephen, uh, Susan Kuchera, we made a film a few years ago called, uh, Living in the Future's Past. Good title, huh?

• 1:38:23Theo Von?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:38:23Speaker 02

  Living in the Future's Past. And that's all about, uh, our environment and what we're doing, uh, and, uh, how we can, uh, look out for our, our planet and ourselves and our wolves and our, you know, what makes us, uh, the relationship that we all have with each other.

• 1:38:42Theo Von?

  That's what the documentary is about?

• 1:38:43Speaker 02

  That's what this documentary is about. And also, uh, you know, living in the future's past rather than pointing bad, you know, our finger at the oil companies, you know, not, we're all in this together, man. You know, this is not something to, you know, uh, how, how, how do, how do we navigate this situation?

• 1:39:02Theo Von?

  Yeah. Yeah. How do I be to try and be the best little rudder, you know?

• 1:39:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, there you go. Yeah. And where do I want the world to go? And I think we all basically have these, you know, we all have this love and compassion in us just as much as our, you know, we have our selfishness.

• 1:39:19Theo Von?

  Sometimes I think that, but then sometimes I start to think that true evil exists as well because I don't know if one could happen without the other. Do you think that there is some evil out there?

• 1:39:28Speaker 02

  You know, it's, uh, what pops into my mind is this Buddhist thing about relative and absolute realities, you know? I think in the absolute, you know, way, you know, you've. You get out and start looking at the stars and you know, I don't think there's an objective morality really, that there's really good and evil. I don't think, but when you get into the relative with each person, oh yeah, big time. We each have that. But so there's these two things going on at the same time.

• 1:40:00Theo Von?

  Ah, which is interesting.

• 1:40:01Speaker 02

  Don't you think? I mean, what's your perspective?

• 1:40:02Theo Von?

  Yeah, it's a good point. Cause sometimes you attach the, the, the, the one on one, the, the personal, right? My morality.

• 1:40:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:40:10Theo Von?

  I attach it to this bigger thing. Well, there's this bigger code of morality in the universe, but maybe if that universe doesn't even have that. Yeah, I hadn't thought about it like that. Um, I don't know. Sometimes it's like, I used to feel a lot more like we, it used to, it used to feel a little bit more like we had a purpose as a, as a humanity. And then now, right now, I feel like that's kind of, the tapestry is looser than it's been in a while for us. Now, I'm sure throughout time, it's gotten very loose for a lot of people, but it feels kind of loose for us right now, a sense of purpose. And that gets kind of, when the tapestry is loose, man.

• 1:40:47Speaker 02

  It makes you say, well, what's your purpose? What, you know, what is your purpose?

• 1:40:52Theo Von?

  Right, right. If we don't have a group purpose as a whole, if you start to realize that, oh, I thought we were all on the same path. If we're not, then it really makes you start to check them with yourself, which maybe is a thing that we need to be doing, you know? I'm not trying to preach. I'm just thinking out loud.

• 1:41:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, I know what you're saying. I love to think out loud. I mean, I heard what, what you're saying, something pops into my mind. The greatest gift that life is given to humanity is that it has no meaning. There is no purpose. That's a gift.

• 1:41:20Theo Von?

  Oh, really?

• 1:41:21Speaker 02

  Think of that as a gift. And now what are you gonna do about that? What do you, how do you fill that? How do you fill that space? What is, you know, what do you? And again, is that I keep coming back to that thing about being done as opposed to doing, you know, like there's something going on, man. You know, the AI, AA thing, it the higher power, you know? You can't do it by yourself, you know, that's the thing.

• 1:41:45Theo Von?

  Oh, I'm tired of trying to do it by myself.

• 1:41:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, so what is this? What is this thing asking us of us? And to get in cahoots with that?

• 1:41:53Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:53Speaker 02

  And, and it's not even, do we even have a choice? We're in cahoots with it, man. You know, maybe our, our resistance is our, how much, you know? But, you know, you're being done, man. This is what wants to be done through you. You know, like there's something that wants you to make your choices that's saying, no, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do my, you know, my addiction, you know?

• 1:42:19Theo Von?

  Right.

• 1:42:20Speaker 02

  In you.

• 1:42:21Theo Von?

  There's something that wants us to fight for good.

• 1:42:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's right. That's right.

• 1:42:24Theo Von?

  I believe that. There's something that wants us to fight for good.

• 1:42:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's just kind of a natural thing.

• 1:42:29Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:30Speaker 02

  And it's not even a good thing. It's just a thing that's being, that's going down, man. You know, we can say it feels good to do it because that feels on purpose. You know, uh, like words have meaning, you know, because they're pointing to something. But life, does it really have a meaning? Does it mean anything?

• 1:42:50Theo Von?

  Right.

• 1:42:50Speaker 02

  What does this shit mean, man? It's just, you know?

• 1:42:53Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:54Speaker 02

  A word kind of says, you know, this means a chair. Yeah, but what does that, this really mean? I don't know.

• 1:43:02Theo Von?

  Yeah, life doesn't, there's not really an alphabet to like all of it.

• 1:43:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:06Theo Von?

  It doesn't really have like a, it doesn't have a, um, a language.

• 1:43:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:14Theo Von?

  Really?

• 1:43:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, it doesn't, yeah.

• 1:43:15Theo Von?

  Like if you went into like, if you went behind the curtain of space, it's not like they're back there with letters and shit.

• 1:43:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:22Theo Von?

  You know?

• 1:43:22Speaker 02

  Saying this, yeah, this is what it's all about, you know? Wow.

• 1:43:26Theo Von?

  I don't know, at least we get to be alive dude and we get to experience this and that's pretty cool.

• 1:43:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, and as my wife would say, and, and philosophize, she, you know, like she calls me, oh, you're a philosopher. You'll bust my chops.

• 1:43:38Theo Von?

  Oh, a fool at the beginning?

• 1:43:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, but you know, that's accurate too.

• 1:43:41Theo Von?

  Uh, oh dude, if we all aren't fools, right?

• 1:43:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, huh?

• 1:43:46Theo Von?

  And thank you God for letting me be a fool. The pain of having-

• 1:43:48Speaker 02

  Ah, she had letting us hang out as long, as screwed up as the whole thing is, letting us hang out for this long on this little speck of dust?

• 1:43:57Theo Von?

  And if we knew, I know.

• 1:43:59Speaker 02

  It's a miracle, man.

• 1:44:00Theo Von?

  It's mayhem. And if we knew everything, how, how, what a pain it would be. And if we did know everything, here's the craziest part, say if you knew it all, who would believe you?

• 1:44:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:12Theo Von?

  You know, um, Jeff, just thanks for all your, just all your commitment to just like, uh, continuing to show up for your acting gigs, however you did it, and to show up for your creativity, because it's provided so much entertainment to us. So whatever you did in your life, just show up for that stuff, man.

• 1:44:26Speaker 02

  Thank you, man.

• 1:44:27Theo Von?

  That's cool.

• 1:44:28Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 1:44:28Theo Von?

  Because it's, I think some, some stories have helped a lot, a lot of us or been a part of our lives. Um, yeah, man. And if you see Bad Blake, tell him I said, tell him I said what's up.

• 1:44:36Speaker 02

  I will. Now, can I give you my list?

• 1:44:38Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah, give me your list.

• 1:44:39Speaker 02

  Okay, so here, I said Lloyd Catley, he's gonna be a good one, man. I think you guys would really hit it off.

• 1:44:44Theo Von?

  And he was your stand-in?

• 1:44:45Speaker 02

  He's been my, and he was also an actor, actor, he would be, I think he would be, you'd have a good time with him.

• 1:44:52Theo Von?

  Okay.

• 1:44:52Speaker 02

  I mentioned, uh, John Goodwin, who is the guy who wrote most of the songs when I had my, you know, after Crazy Heart, I got, you know, I-

• 1:45:02Theo Von?

  Your music flared up?

• 1:45:03Speaker 02

  I had my music flared up and I, you know, went out and got a band together and we did a lot of John Goodwin tunes.

• 1:45:10Theo Von?

  Okay.

• 1:45:11Speaker 02

  Uh, Bernie is no longer alive, Bernie Glassman, but his wife, Eve Marco, is alive. But she's, would be a wonderful guest. She is still very, uh, involved with the Zen Peacemakers. A guy named Billy Shore. Billy is the head of an organization called Share Our Strength. I love that title.

• 1:45:35Theo Von?

  Okay.

• 1:45:35Speaker 02

  And T-Bone, we mentioned T-Bone, he lives in Nashville. He might want to do this show. His wife, Callie Curry, who wrote Thelma and Louise, she's got, she'd be interesting. Yeah, who else would be?

• 1:45:50Theo Von?

  And if some other ones come up, you can always send us a list.

• 1:45:52Speaker 02

  I'll just send it to you, man.

• 1:45:54Theo Von?

  That'd probably be easier. Also, on the way out, you'll be able to hear that Suno song, If We Can Put It In, if rights will be cleared in my nature, how that works, but we'll let-

• 1:46:01Speaker 02

  I don't have no ideas. The first time I ever did anything like this.

• 1:46:06Theo Von?

  So I haven't heard about it, but we'll put it at the end and see what it thinks of all this. And yeah, man, I just appreciate your time, dude. Yeah, thank you so much, Jeff Bridges.

• 1:46:16Speaker 02

  And Gary's agent, he'll contact you.

• 1:46:18Theo Von?

  Okay. And voice us.

• 1:46:23Speaker 06

  Theo Ronan Jeff Bridges on a podcast by the road. Talking data centers and the dangers we all know. Gary in the corner, Jeff say I with a grin. Saying trouble and a promise all wrapped up in spin. Jeff said, brother, watch it close. Theo said, that sure sounds wild. One eye on the future, one eye on a smile.

• 1:47:06Speaker 06

  Theo and Jeff talk all night. Danger and promise in the same light. Theo and Jeff pass that test. One more eye there and the room gets blessed. Theo and Jeff, yeah, let it roll. Country boys talking to the edge of the soul.