Reckless Ben Breaks Silence on LEGO Lawsuit, Getting Arrested, & Losing Everything

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, how's it going? So basically, my friend said that you guys have some of his Legos.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  You can go ahead and explain.

• 0:06Speaker 00

  This story is so much bigger than just stealing $200,000 worth of Lego.

• 0:11Speaker 02

  Tonight's story began with a missing Lego collection and ended with a SWAT raid.

• 0:16Jack Selby?

  What charges are you facing right now?

• 0:18Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh. Okay, we got so much. We got criminal stalking when I tried to serve him court papers, cyber stalking when I made the GoFundMe. I've already been to court, I think, three times for each of those, and those court cases could drag out to two years. I'm in a lawsuit right now. The lawyers are saying $10 million minimum.

• 0:36Jack Selby?

  Are you stressed out right now with the lawsuits?

• 0:38Speaker 00

  No, it's fun. I love it.

• 0:39Speaker 04

  Looks exactly the same.

• 0:41Speaker 00

  Their logic is if I'm in jail, I can't release my documentary, and then they get away with their crimes.

• 0:46Jack Selby?

  It seems like they've done anything and everything to stop you.

• 0:49Speaker 04

  We play differently here.

• 0:50Speaker 00

  This is a classic example of corporate greed, working with a lot of money, using the cops to sweep a crime under the rug.

• 0:56Speaker 05

  These are sets he has not been paid for.

• 0:59Speaker 00

  They're not gonna get away with this. I am no longer allowed to even mention this mystery company, or I will be in jail. They're trying to silence me right now, but I'm just gonna come out and say all of their secrets that they don't want you to know.

• 1:15Jack Selby?

  Reckless Ben, thank you so much for coming on the Ice Coffee Hour.

• 1:18Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Well, thanks for having us. This place is sick.

• 1:21Jack Selby?

  Thank you. You have created arguably the number one story of 2026. I never thought I would be so invested. I'm not gonna lie, YouTube recommended me this video maybe 20 times, but I saw $200,000 worth of Lego stolen, and I honestly could not care less. And then Graham said, "You need to watch this series."

• 1:39Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:40Jack Selby?

  It's insane. And I watched the first episode. In 10 minutes, I was completely hooked. It almost has nothing to do with Lego.

• 1:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, I feel you on that. I would never, ever click on a video, like, an hour and a half-long video on Legos either. I was kind of just banking off the fact, like, exactly what you said, like, one or two people will see it, and they're just gonna tell everyone about it, you know, and they finally watch it, and they tell their friends. I was like, okay, it'll just... It's not a good hook, but it'll spread, you know?

• 2:07Jack Selby?

  I need to correct you right there, because it's not actually Legos. It's actually just Lego.

• 2:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, a lot of people have been saying that. It's like deer, is what they say.

• 2:14Jack Selby?

  Or fish.

• 2:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, you don't say deers. You just say deer. But it seems weird to be like... Hey, can you please give me the Lego back? Cause then I think like, oh, there's just, he stole one piece of Lego.

• 2:23Jack Selby?

  Singular Lego.

• 2:24Graham Stephan?

  I'd agree with you on that.

• 2:25Jack Selby?

  I don't know if a singular Lego piece can be worth $200,000.

• 2:30Graham Stephan?

  There are, there's a gold brick that's worth a lot of money and some of the mini figures are worth substantial.

• 2:36Jack Selby?

  Is it actually gold? It better be gold at $200,000.

• 2:38Graham Stephan?

  Yes, I believe they only made six in the world.

• 2:40Jack Selby?

  Whoa.

• 2:42Graham Stephan?

  24 karat gold.

• 2:43Jack Selby?

  Maybe you should buy it. Good alternative investment.

• 2:44Graham Stephan?

  I would love to.

• 2:45Jack Selby?

  Beat your portfolio.

• 2:46Graham Stephan?

  I know, I'm serious.

• 2:46Jack Selby?

  International index ones.

• 2:47Graham Stephan?

  I would love to.

• 2:47Jack Selby?

  Anyways, $200,000 of Lego was stolen. What do people think this is about and what is it actually about?

• 2:54Speaker 00

  I guess like from the clickbait, you're like, oh, I'm gonna get a thing into like Legos and so I don't really care about Legos. Like, they don't watch it, you know, but when you actually like watch it, it's about corporate greed and like a corporate entity that's in the wrong, bullying the little guy because they can, you know, because they have power and they can get away with it. Even though they're not right, they can get away with it. And it's kind of a theme of like our justice system of like, because you're taught growing up, oh, if you're in the right, you'll win. If you're in the wrong, you'll get punished. But throughout this video, you kind of see it's like whoever has more money, they kind of maybe get this, like it goes their way. And then if you don't have money, even if you're morally and legally in the right, you can get screwed over just because you don't have the resources to fight.

• 3:39Jack Selby?

  What charges are you facing right now?

• 3:42Speaker 00

  Oh my gosh. Okay, we got so much. We got criminal stalking when I tried to serve in court papers. Cyber stalking when I made the GoFundMe. I've already been to court, I think, three times for each of those and those court cases could drag out to two years. So that's the criminal side. We got, I'm in a lawsuit right now. The lawyers are saying $10 million minimum for me and my friends, what we're gonna have to pay if we lose. But I think we're gonna try and fight that, obviously. We got the TRO, which could be a real restraining order. I got a second restraining order coming. They haven't served me yet. I'm still. I don't want to say on the run, but they they're not, they have, I would say they haven't served me yet.

• 4:27Jack Selby?

  They fled to Mexico.

• 4:28Speaker 00

  That coming, yeah. So that's coming. I haven't been to my house since this dropped because of, first we had a warrant for my arrest, but I got that dropped. We're dealing with that in court now. Then, right when that got dropped, I got a second restraining, or the first restraining order. So I was like, ah, still can't show back up to my house. Then, right when they served me by email, now I have a second restraining order that they're trying to serve on me. So the police has been after me this entire time. They're trying to get me with extortion because they're saying that I told them, if they don't give me the Legos back, I'm gonna burn their corporate headquarters down and everyone. So I guess that's extortion, which is like super illegal. I didn't do that, but they're saying I did.

• 5:06Jack Selby?

  Where did they get that idea of?

• 5:09Speaker 00

  So, basically, I just go up to him, like, hey, I mean, you saw in the video where I was like, you want to do this the easy way or the hard way? You know, like, the easy way implying, like, you could just give them the Legos back, like, you're obviously, like, not entitled, like, you didn't buy those, so it, like, won't hurt them to give them the Legos back. That's the easy way. And the hard way is, like, everything that's happening now, you know, it's like, we take them to court, we show the world that they stole the Legos and their brand drops because of it. Like, that's the hard way. But I think he thought the hard way was I burned down the building and everyone inside is what he took that as.

• 5:42Jack Selby?

  That's the hard way?

• 5:43Speaker 00

  That's what he's, I mean, I told him, I was like, hey, like, once we make a documentary on this, like, it's not gonna be good for your brand, is what I said. But he took that as, I'm gonna burn down the building and everyone inside. And so, immediately after I talked to him, like, I have the body cam footage, he goes and, like, I have the security camera footage of the corporate headquarters, because it was in Discovery. And he just immediately calls the police. He's like, hey, this YouTuber just came in and said he's gonna burn down our building. I'm like, what?

• 6:08Jack Selby?

  Wow.

• 6:08Speaker 00

  And then I submitted all the raw footage to the police that shows that I didn't do that. Like, you can see, I go up the elevator, I talk to him, and I go down the elevator, back to my car, no cuts. I submitted that whole raw footage to the police. I'm like, I don't know where he's getting this. And the police looked at it, and then they still charged me anyways.

• 6:24Jack Selby?

  How much money have you spent so far on lawyers?

• 6:27Speaker 00

  I would say about seven, fifty to seventy thousand, I think.

• 6:31Jack Selby?

  I feel like it'd be in a lawyer's best interest to help you out for free, because they would get so much publicity.

• 6:36Speaker 00

  So. Everyone advising me has said, don't do that because the people that are in it for free are probably not going to do the best job. They're doing it more for publicity and not necessarily to win. So they, I've been, because at first I thought the same thing, but basically everyone I talked to says, make sure you don't get a lawyer for free. Make sure you pay them because then there's like accountability if they don't do the right thing. It's like, oh, I paid you, you know, where there's kind of an out if they do it for free, like, ah, he's not paying me. So maybe I don't have to go above and beyond.

• 7:08Graham Stephan?

  I agree with that. How did you first discover the story about missing Lego?

• 7:13Speaker 00

  So I just put the end of my previous video, I said, hey, if you have a problem that the police can't solve, email me this email. And I had made a whole email just for ideas and I got probably like 10,000 like email ideas. And I posted it on the way to Burning Man and then it started raining. And so it was like muddy at Burning Man. It was like a 24, 26 hour wait to get inside. So me and my friends were just going through all the ideas and we would just like star all the ones that we thought were the best. And we came with like, probably 20 ideas that we started on. Some of them didn't really work out because like, as you could tell, like, when I first started the Lego video, the first thing I did was I walked to Bricks and Minifigs and I'm like, I just want to hear their side of the story, you know?

• 7:56Speaker 00

  And then obviously they kicked me out and they like get upset at me. So a couple of the video ideas were like, okay, let's hear their side. And it's like, oh, well, it turns out this is kind of a misunderstanding or something. Or like, I guess they weren't actually the bad guys, you know? So that happened a couple of video ideas and the Bricks and Minifigs was kind of just one of the ones where I was like, okay, let me hear their side. And they just got super upset at me. So I was like, okay, let me just keep pursuing this, you know, because it seemed like there was like a huge injustice. So I was like, okay, I'll just keep doing this, you know?

• 8:24Graham Stephan?

  What were some of the other ideas that people sent in?

• 8:27Speaker 00

  Oh my gosh, there were some amazing ones.

• 8:30Graham Stephan?

  Like what's the craziest one? Cause I'd imagine if you just say, hey, give me a case the police can't solve, you're going to get like,

• 8:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:37Graham Stephan?

  wild stories.

• 8:38Speaker 00

  Well, I'm currently working on 12 of them side by side. A lot of them I'm still undercover. So I don't really want to, at least on the record, not go into them yet, because then all the audience, it just takes one troll in the audience to be like, oh, I'm going to tell this company that Ben's undercover in them right now, you know? And, and then it ruins the whole thing. And I'm like, I'm like deep in some of them, you know?

• 8:58Graham Stephan?

  Tell us the ones though, that you're not doing that were just crazy.

• 9:03Jack Selby?

  Are you getting like more cases?

• 9:05Speaker 00

  I'd say like slightly below that.

• 9:09Speaker 00

  You might have to censor this one out. I can tell you, but maybe just put like a censor over it or something like a bleep or I don't know or silence it. But uh, this is one of the cool ones I'm working on. There was this guy.

• 9:32Speaker 00

  It's like blew the exact same plot line as the Lego video. And so we go in, we're like, hey, we solved this case for you, you know? And they're like, if you don't leave right now, we're calling the cops on you.

• 9:42Jack Selby?

  And now I'm like completely.

• 9:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know, and this is like what?

• 9:44Jack Selby?

  One of the most horrible things I've heard in a long time.

• 9:47Speaker 00

  That's what I'm saying. It's like, it's like a few steps down from.

• 9:49Jack Selby?

  Some of the things that I see you do are like, I would say categorically genius. Like being able to come up with, we steal from old people is the company name and the tagline is bricks and minifigs. Doing that or like, you know, covering up their sign and getting this woman to sign a document. Like months in advance before you actually ended up using it because you're opposing as like a FedEx delivery person or whatever. Like all of these things, it's like layer after, it's like a game of chess. Move after move after move after move.

• 10:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:20Jack Selby?

  I'm curious, what would you say your like actual value is like your skill set? Like what do you attribute this to? Are you like a P I, an investigator, like a detective?

• 10:31Speaker 00

  I actually like the chess analogy and I use that analogy a lot. I'm like, this is like a game of chess. And the way I win is the unpredictability. So I like chess a lot. I go to chess club every Thursday, but it's like, okay. So if I play like a normal like E4 opening, you know, and stuff, and you play a normal opening, it's, it's like, I might win, I might lose it for like the same skill level, you know? But say I have like someone who's just like a beginner at chess and doesn't know anything and they just make some really weird moves I've never seen before. They might beat me just because of how weird they're playing. And I don't know how to like counteract, like counter their moves, you know? So I kind of do the same thing. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna cope with some weird like strategies.

• 11:13Speaker 00

  So outside of the box, you're never going to see it coming. And even though it's the stupidest thing ever, I might. Like beat you because you won't know how to react, you know, it's like this is like, you're right, like the thing where I'm like the FedEx thing or something like they didn't know how to react when they saw that signed document. So they literally would just close their store. Like they stopped calling the cops on me and they would just close their store down. And we're like, yes, like we won, you know, because it wasn't like a good idea at all. Like it was a terrible idea, but they just didn't see it coming. So they didn't know how to react to it. And it worked.

• 11:42Jack Selby?

  So how were the Lego sets missing?

• 11:44Speaker 00

  It's kind of being debated how much the Lego sets are actually worth. And he already got paid out $17,000 from the previous owner. So he wasn't owed $200,000, but that's just an easy number to use. But he puts his Lego sets in the store and the store didn't have enough money to buy them from him. So they said, let's do a consignment. So they're still your Lego sets, but every time one gets sold, you keep like 70% or whatever, how much percent they're giving him and we'll keep like the other percent, you know, as a thank you for like selling them for us. And so it's working out fine. He already got paid $17,000 in this. So every time sets would get sold, he'd get the majority of the money. They keep a small amount, but then corporate comes over and takes over the store.

• 12:26Speaker 00

  For whatever reason, that's not really any of Brian's or my's business. I guess there was a business dispute that's completely unrelated. Uh, so they take over the store and they said, everything in the store is now ours, including these sets that worked the stores to give him, you know, it'd be similar if I parked my car in their parking lot. Like they don't just get my car. Like it's not their car.

• 12:47Jack Selby?

  They sell that parking lot or something.

• 12:50Speaker 00

  So his, uh, his Legos are kind of like, yeah, a car parked in the parking lot. Like they don't just get his Legos, but they're claiming they do. So when he shows up, he's like, hey, can I have my Legos back? And they say, no, these are our Legos now. This is our inventory. And he's like, what do you mean? And like, well, you, he's like, I have this contract and like, well, we're not a part of this contract. In order for us to be under agreement, we have to sign something and we didn't sign this contract. So we don't have to listen, we don't have to follow the contract because we didn't sign it. And but what they are failing to understand is when they take over the business, they take over any of the agreements that are in the business, including that contract. So since they took over the business, they're taking over that contract now, which their response to that is, well, if you want your Legos back, you can sue us. But by suing us, you'll spend more money on court than your collection is even worth,

• 13:35Speaker 00

  and you'll just lose money. So you'll lose time, money. It'd be much easier if you just let us keep the Lego sets. And that's where he was at.

• 13:42Jack Selby?

  And why did this video then break the internet if it seems like it's just someone stealing Lego?

• 13:47Speaker 00

  I think because of the last sentence I just said. So the corporation says, we know we're in the wrong, but we can get away with this because we have money and you don't. And I think people are tired of like big corporations like hurting the little guy. You know, it's like the punching down, you know, people hate that. And so I basically went to Brian, I was like, hey, you know what? We're gonna stand up to this company and show them that the little guy can't get bullied anymore. You know, and I didn't do it from like a Mr. Beast perspective where I was like, okay, we're gonna like pour all this money and like do all this like stuff. Cause then it wouldn't have had the impact of like the little guy standing up to the big guy. Like I did it from the like, from the story of, okay, we have no resources.

• 14:31Speaker 00

  How can we use our creativity to take down this big company, you know? And it kind of really relates to people that like, don't have resources and can't stand up. And so I think the message is really like, if you're creative and if you like really put your mind into it, you can stand up to the big guy. You just have to like be creative and like make a voice, you know?

• 14:50Jack Selby?

  Speaking how the little guy can win, me being a little guy, I suppose, I tried to find out if any public company had an interest in Bricks and Mini Figs so I could short it, and I couldn't find it.

• 15:01Speaker 00

  We were, we were joking about that right before we posted the video. Yeah, it's not publicly traded.

• 15:05Jack Selby?

  I, I wanted to do like a Chris Camillo social art collage trade. And I'm like aware of all this information. This company is getting hit with like, you know, they have to spend all this money on lawsuits. They're getting all this negative press. I'm like, I could short this company and make a lot of money. No, there's no public interest.

• 15:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, we were, we were definitely joking about that right before we posted the video. We actually looked it up and then we were very disappointed when we saw that there was, I've never like invested in stocks or anything my entire life, but.

• 15:29Jack Selby?

  Oh, well, change that. By the end of this episode, we're gonna change that.

• 15:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, I've never like invested in anything. I think, okay, I invested, I think 20 bucks in Bitcoin, like.

• 15:42Speaker 00

  Right when it started, it turned to like 500 bucks, I think. But that's the only time I ever, I was like, oh, I should have.

• 15:47Graham Stephan?

  That didn't make you want to invest more? Like 20 X-ing your money?

• 15:50Speaker 00

  I probably should have, yeah. I don't know. I just, I just like spending all my money on videos. Like, I don't have money to invest. I just, all my money, I just put right back into the videos.

• 15:58Graham Stephan?

  How much do you spend per video?

• 16:02Speaker 00

  Not a lot. I think there was like a less than two, it was like, we spent gas money to get up there. That was the biggest expense. And then the Airbnb and hotels and then food. That's about it. I bought like, maybe like 400 bucks of Lego props. Like, we bought like the Lego costume. We bought some like Lego, like, maybe like, I'd say like probably $2,000 budget, maybe, for that whole video.

• 16:22Graham Stephan?

  Now, when you were filming this, was there any moment where you thought, maybe I could be wrong? Now, people put off starting their LLC for months because they picture some massive legal headache. We're like talking, digging through government websites, filling out complicated paperwork. And in the end, you still don't know if you did it correctly. Well, that's why we partnered with Northwest Registered Agent. They handle it all for you. Everything's in one place and you know you're filing exactly what you need to start your LLC. We're talking state filings, your operating agreement, membership certificates and banking resolutions. Everything done for $39 plus state fees. You also get a free domain, website, email, phone line, brand protection and mail forwarding the moment your LLC is formed. So your business is actually ready to operate, not just registered on paper.

• 17:06Graham Stephan?

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• 17:40Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, that's, of course. That's why I went and heard their side, you know? I feel like I'm just documenting my experience. So I can't be wrong in my experience. So I'm like, okay, I heard Brian's side of the story. And I'm like, okay, Brian could be wrong. So let me hear their side. So I go to their store. Then they call the cops on me and they're like, leave, leave, leave. So I'm, there's nothing wrong. And I'm just like, here's what happened. I'm just here to share my experience and I'm not wrong in sharing my experience. So.

• 18:05Jack Selby?

  What do you think is the biggest misconception people have about this story?

• 18:09Speaker 00

  Um, hmm. I don't know. There's the, the spy glasses. It, uh, has the wrong timestamp at the bottom. It's like 2019. So a lot of the reaction channels watching it. They're like, he's been working on this for seven years. Like what the heck? Like this is insane. I'm like, no, we, and then they're like this, and then it'll be like 2020. And we use like six or seven different pairs of spy glasses. They all have different dates on the bottom. So it looks like we filmed it over like six years or something, but we really filmed it in like four or five days. I'm trying to think of the biggest misconception, um, like storyline wise. I don't know. We just, I just tried to be like, hey, like we went in and just tried legal stuff, you know, we're like, I don't know if this is going to work or not. Uh, let's just try it.

• 18:52Speaker 00

  And, uh, we just did it. Um, and we just shared our experience, I guess. I guess, okay. The biggest misconception I think is everyone the entire time is saying like, get a lawyer, get a lawyer.

• 19:02Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 19:02Speaker 00

  You know, like, like if you had a lawyer, you would have solved this immediately. Well, first off, Brian's wife is actually an attorney. So we did have a lawyer with us the entire time. And most of the ideas we would pitch to her, she's like, that's the worst idea I've ever heard. And we're like, sick. That means it's going to be awesome, you know? Cause I've always thought that like the ideas lawyers gives are like really boring. But at the same time, we wanted to do it from the perspective of someone who doesn't have resources for a lawyer, you know? And, cause a lot of people, like say I just like threw like $50,000 of this video and we did it like the right way. And we got the Legos back like easy. Then the people watching at home are like, oh, well, he could have only pulled that off because he has money, you know? And it's not like inspiring me to like stand up to my bully, you know?

• 19:46Speaker 00

  So I wanted to do it from like the point, like the, from the perspective of someone who literally has nothing, you know? That way, when you watch my video, it's like, there's no excuse. Like if I can do it, you can do it. Like go out. I want it to be inspiring for people, you know? Like if I could do this with literally nothing, you can stand up to your bully. You can stand up to the person pushing you around and.

• 20:04Jack Selby?

  So how did it go from something as simple as just standing up to your bully and like wanting to make something right? Some guy had his Legos stolen. You just want to return his Legos to you then being. What would you call like charged with six crimes? Like, how to, how to bridge that gap? Because I'm sure a lot of people wondering.

• 20:22Speaker 00

  So at the end of the first video, I wasn't charged with anything. You know, we were just having fun. I guess the cops were kind of, which makes sense. Like, at the end of the day, it is a civil matter and the cops really aren't supposed to get involved. The cops were kind of being dicks, but we, I talked to the chief of police afterwards and he said that the police messed up. They were giving false information and wrote false information in the police report. And since the police were going off the information in the police report, they were going off false information, didn't know the whole story. So they apologized for that and they gave me like a personal apology, which I really respected. And then it wasn't until we went to Utah where things started getting crazy.

• 21:03Speaker 00

  And I think this is once they, so the whole first video, they just thought I was some kid. Like, remember the phone call? He's like, are you just some kid? Like, this isn't how the world works. Like, you're just some, he's like, are you young? You know? So they just thought I was some like stupid idiot that they could like bully around, you know? And then in the second video, I think this is when they find out on my YouTube channel, because when we did the lawsuit, I had to like put all my information in the lawsuit. And so I think they were like, let's look this kid up. And you know, and they found my YouTube channel. So like, okay, this guy's doing a video on us and that's bad. So let's make up reasons to get him arrested is what I think they were trying to do. Because why else would they be acting like this? So I think they're just making up reasons to get me thrown in jail.

• 21:44Speaker 00

  Because their logic is if I'm in jail, I can't release my documentary and then they get away with their crimes.

• 21:50Jack Selby?

  So it originated in Oregon. That's where this whole original, like, yeah, the store was that stole the Lego. And then you went down to Utah because that's where the

• 21:59Speaker 00

  They closed the store, yeah. And that's where the owners live.

• 22:01Jack Selby?

  They closed the store and that's where they live. And so you're effectively trying to create a lawsuit because you couldn't sue for this exact infraction because the store was closed, whatever. So you try to create a secondary lawsuit of other people having their Lego stolen on consignment from the same owner. It's a little bit complicated, just trying to understand.

• 22:20Speaker 00

  Well, that's the whole point, you know? Yeah, it's like, we're trying to make it confusing. And if it confuses you, it probably confuses them. And if they're confused, then we win and we get the Legos back.

• 22:28Jack Selby?

  And so you, you went all the way over to Utah. And then this is where the problems really started happening because that's when they started charging you with like stalking and this and that. And I'm curious.

• 22:39Jack Selby?

  Because Graham actually had an interesting opinion.

• 22:41Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 22:41Jack Selby?

  He said that there's actually a fair argument to be made of like, okay, this could be cyber stalking or like in-person stalking. I want to hear what your opinion is on that.

• 22:51Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, see, I was thinking if the roles were reversed and some YouTuber comes to you, would you think this is brave journalism or would you think it borders harassment? And I was.

• 23:06Speaker 00

  Did I steal old man's collection and bully him?

• 23:11Graham Stephan?

  I think, I think there's an argument to be made because I'm, I'm on your side here, but I'm just trying to play devil's advocate. I think there is an argument to be made that this guy did take over the store. The prior owner has really poor record keeping. A lot of this you can't prove without forensic accounting. And anything he says is going to be used against him in a lawsuit. That it's best for him to just shut up and let the legal system kind of work through its thing. I think it was really irresponsible for him to say anything and to make any threats or like anything.

• 23:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was great.

• 23:52Graham Stephan?

  He should have.

• 23:52Speaker 00

  It was, it was amazing that, yeah, because most people do just shut up and he was just kept talking.

• 23:56Jack Selby?

  He was the one making threats to you. You made no threats to him.

• 23:59Graham Stephan?

  Correct. So I think he was an idiot, but I also think there is an out there that he could say, listen, the prior owner, I have no idea what's going on with this. Bring me, you know, some sort of civil action or something, but until then I'm out of it. I don't know what's going on. The prior owner, they're a mess and leave it at that. And then maybe it wouldn't have gone to such an extreme.

• 24:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, but at the same time also, like the prior owner, she gave us pictures of all of the Lego sets in the store still when they were kicking her out. So there was proof that. At least a bunch of these Lego sets were still in the store. And so, um, and he said, like, you guys can have them back, you know? And then when we show up, they just try to call the cops on us. So, um, like, if it was truly the previous owner, like, I, I, I cut a lot of this out of the video because I thought it was kind of boring and it didn't really lead to anything. But there's a lot of parts in the video where I'm trying to team up with them, you know? I'm like, hey, let's, if, if you're saying the previous owner stole these sets, let's team up together and get the previous owner. But right now she's sending me a bunch of pictures of these Lego sets still in the store with the metadata timestamps on them.

• 25:03Speaker 00

  So it seems like you guys took the set, you know?

• 25:07Graham Stephan?

  We're skipping ahead a little bit, but I saw in the Coffeezilla video, the prior owner did admit that there is a chance of sloppy record keeping.

• 25:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. She might have stole some too. Uh, yeah, I, I think there's a equal chance that the previous owner stole some and the, the new owners stole some, but.

• 25:24Graham Stephan?

  I tend to think just.

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• 25:56Graham Stephan?

  From my own opinion here, that it's maybe not theft, but really just irresponsible placement, record keeping. You probably have employees who are in there.

• 26:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:07Graham Stephan?

  Sets get misplaced, sets are sold, not recorded, money goes elsewhere. And it's not maybe intentionally trying to like steal money, but it's just, these are people who maybe weren't the best business people who.

• 26:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's what the previous owner seems like. And it seems like, uh. So her response to this is because I've asked her, like I asked, I try to be equal with both sides, the bricks and minifigs and Crystal. And so when I asked Crystal that, her response is, yeah, maybe I did underpay Brian for some of the sets we sold. But when I ask, I was kicked out of my store without warning and I lost all my inventories. I lost all the record book keepings and stuff. And when I ask for that back, so I can see how much like I underpaid Brian, they will give it to me. And they said, I can sue them for it, but that's the only way I'll ever get it. And so it she, it seemed like she wants to make it right for if she did underpay Brian, but bricks and minifigs won't give her the inventory to let her do that.

• 27:04Graham Stephan?

  But just the fact that she would underpay Brian tells me right off the bat, I don't trust her numbers. I don't trust her accounting. I don't trust anything.

• 27:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, I want to make that clear too, is yeah, she could be just as bad as bricks and minifigs in this situation, you know, like I think she could be just as.

• 27:20Jack Selby?

  I think that there is a pretty big difference though. One is hiding behind like the courts and one person is willing to have a conversation with you whenever you.

• 27:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, but she's open and she's willing to say, hey, I'm here's all the evidence I have. Here's everything like, let's work through this together. And she's always been open to try and solving this. And then bricks and minifigs just calls the cops on me every time I try to solve it with them.

• 27:40Jack Selby?

  So what I want to know is you get charged with like six different crimes. Explain how you ended up getting to the point of like getting sent to jail for this.

• 27:51Speaker 00

  Um, it's because when I tried serving papers, they said the paper, it was not a real lawsuit. And so they had to arrest me because if it wasn't a real lawsuit that I,

• 28:04Speaker 00

  you couldn't make an argument. I was just being there for the sake of being there. And then that is stalking, like you guys were saying. But because they were real court papers, I did have a legitimate reason to be there and we were serving the papers. But so they arrested me because they thought it was a fake lawsuit. And so because it was fake, then that makes me being arrested.

• 28:24Jack Selby?

  But they didn't actually think that it was fake because in the released.

• 28:29Speaker 00

  Yeah. So then the body cam releases.

• 28:31Jack Selby?

  Body cam footage.

• 28:32Speaker 00

  Where it's, I posted a video where it says, like, is this a real lawsuit? And she says, yes. So they have to change their story. So they make a press release. The chief of police comes out with his, his ASMR voice and he goes. The, the court case was real. We verified it was real, but the papers have already been served. And because they've already been served, Ben was just reenacting this for YouTube views. And then the unredacted footage gets released where they, the police officer says, have, have these papers been served yet? And they're like, nope, they still have to be served. He's like, okay, so they still have to be served. And he's like, yep. So then they got caught in another lie. And now my guess is they're coming up with another lie to counteract that. Uh, so basically the pattern is let's lie, proof comes out to

• 29:17Speaker 00

  show they were lying. So we change our story. More proof comes out to show that the changed stories are a lie. And then they change their story again. So it is a pattern that we're seeing. Basically, every plot point of the story is, follows that same formula, but.

• 29:29Jack Selby?

  Is there going to be any actual material consequence to the police department's malfeasance, their inability to actually serve good justice?

• 29:40Speaker 00

  I hope so. I've been thinking about this a lot. So the part that kind of pulls at my heartstrings is if I sue the police department, it, it's not the police that are paying for it. It doesn't come out of their budget or anything. Like it comes out of the taxpayers' money. And it's like, why do the innocent taxpayers have to pay me for what happened? It just seems weird.

• 30:00Jack Selby?

  I would argue it's worth it. Like if someone wanted to sue my corrupt police department, if I had it, I would be happy. Like even if it meant that like there was more budget, there's already money being wasted literally everywhere. Not to say that a little bit more budget wasting is a good thing. It's the same way of saying like, oh, there's trash everywhere. I'm just gonna throw trash on the ground. Not the same. But I will say, you're a victim of someone spending your taxpayer money. You're also a victim of being subjected to a corrupt police department. So like, it's, it's bad either way. It's just like, which one is the lesser evil? And I think you want.

• 30:31Graham Stephan?

  It's pain to do it anyway.

• 30:31Jack Selby?

  Yeah, I think you want to have.

• 30:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, I have heard that they have a budget just for like lawsuits and stuff. Like they have a budget allocated for when people sue the police department. So I think that's already like written in the budget or something.

• 30:43Graham Stephan?

  They probably also have insurance to a degree to cover lawsuits.

• 30:46Speaker 00

  And then also, a lot of stories have been coming out recently of people saying, like, thanks Ben for exposing this. Like the American Fork Police has been harassing me in the exact same way. Like I got falsely arrested. They're doing all this. Like I've seen some crazy stories of this police department that have come out and people just don't film it. You know what I mean? And so you're right. Like by suing them, it might, I hate to use the word like teach them a lesson, but it might. In a sense, like make them not do this to other people because it for me, it's fine. Like I turned it into content and I've capitalized off this. So to me, it's worth it. I'm happy this happens personally, but to literally everyone else this happens to that isn't capitalizing off of it. And it hurts that, you know, like sometimes like this is happening to people or just they're innocent.

• 31:30Speaker 00

  It just destroys their life, you know? And that makes me really sad and it makes me want to do anything I can to make sure that never happens again to more people.

• 31:38Jack Selby?

  The problem is when the people that are supposed to be arbitrating or mediating something like the referee, the umpire, when they're biased, then there is no rules. There's no common language that you can, that you can use to try to find equity or equality. And so like the same thing happens with freaking SGA in basketball. Okay, he can flop as much as he wants, but it only actually makes an impact when he's not called on it. And he's able to do it as much as he wants. Same thing as oh eight. Like a big reason why the recession happened is because all of these like mortgage backed securities or whatever. They were like raided or, you know, there's 500 data points within it. And they were supposed to rate each 500 data points, but they were selective and only rated a couple. We had like a whole episode on this and so like they would approve them as like very safe investments.

• 32:20Jack Selby?

  When in actuality they weren't, it's like the referees, the people rating the, the, the thing, like the umpire, the referee. When those people are corrupt, that's when nothing can be trusted. And that's exactly what's happening here. So I'm actually more frustrated with the police department than I am with bricks and minifix.

• 32:34Speaker 00

  It's about equal. Yeah, I'd say the police department was super frustrating. When you do look at some of the unredacted body cam footage, some of it makes a little bit more sense. When, because I didn't know they were threatening that I was trying to like hurt people, you know? Cause Josh is telling them, I tried to kill the manager, you know, and I'm trying to buy their house and stuff. It's like, you have to get rid of this person. He's trying to kill me, you know? And so if I'm a police officer, like that's like, I don't want to take that chance of someone like I might just arrest the person that. They're saying that about you.

• 33:05Jack Selby?

  But even so, when they approached Josh in the body cam footage, he says, just take him away for anything.

• 33:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:11Jack Selby?

  He says, whatever it is, just get him away from here. I don't care. Charge him with anything. That does not sound like someone who wants to use justice or like reason or any system of fairness to try to like find the, the clear truth. When they talk to you, you're very composed and you're very patient. People in the comments were joking in the release, body cam footage that you should be called not reckless Ben, but patient. Because of your like extreme exhibition of patience with these like insane things that are happening to you.

• 33:39Speaker 00

  I've never really had like bad encounters with the police. I've had a lot of police encounters and it's always been good. And I guess I've always just been taught, like if you show the police respect, they will show you respect, you know? It's always worked like that for me in my life, except for, uh, yeah, pretty much this. And I guess like maybe a few other videos, but mostly this, this was, it's like I show them respect and I expect respect back, but then I just get met with them arresting me.

• 34:02Jack Selby?

  So why is this any different? When you have facts and logic and, and data on your side and evidence and you're showing it to the police, this other person, you know, bricks and minifigs has no evidence, no facts, no logic. Like, why are they siding with him as opposed to siding with you?

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• 35:38Jack Selby?

  When you have facts and logic and data on your side and evidence and you're showing it to the police, this other person, you know, bricks and minifigs, has no evidence, no facts, no logic. Like, why are they siding with him as opposed to siding with you?

• 35:54Speaker 00

  Do I hate to say the whole Mormon thing? I know that's been kind of like a viral thing. It's like a Mormon conspiracy. I'm like, not a conspiracy theorist. Like, I hate conspiracies. I'm always like, the logical, like, okay, here's what's actually happening. Like, let's prove this with facts and stuff. But it is weird that every time they talk to Josh and Brandon in the body cam footage, the first thing they always say is, "I'm on like, this board of people of the Church of Latter Day Saints." You know, they're like, "I'm like, high up there." So I think from the police's point of view, it's not like, oh, they're like, "My Mormon friends." Like, it's a Mormon cover-up. But I think it's more of, "Oh, well, if he made it this high in the Church of Mormonism, he must be trustworthy, right? Because Mormons don't lie. It's against their, uh, like, religion to lie and steal."

• 36:38Speaker 00

  So this person saying a Mormon lied, this YouTuber comes from California, like, and also, I feel like Los Angeles is a bit very like, anti-religious, like, stereotype to it, you know? So like, this guy comes from Los Angeles. He's probably like some anarchist, like, you know, like, ACAB person, you know, how like, he's like, "defund the police" probably type of person, because he's from Los Angeles, you know? And so this hooligan comes from here to this person who is really high up in the Mormon church, like, saying that he is lying and stealing, that doesn't, the YouTuber must be lying, you know? And so I think, just, which makes sense, because I feel like most Mormons don't steal and lie.

• 37:21Speaker 00

  So I feel like it's like a very rare for a Mormon to steal and lie.

• 37:24Jack Selby?

  There's no way after your videos, let's just say this entire series across all the reactions, all of just the overall exposure of it, there's no way you don't have like 500 million positive impressions about you and negative about bricks and minifigs and this person in particular. So there's no way this, this, this justice system or this police department is not getting inundated

• 37:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:45Jack Selby?

  with people saying, listen to Ben.

• 37:48Speaker 00

  Now, I don't know, like maybe if I showed back up again and tried to serve papers, it might go a little differently now, but this all happened before I released any videos or anything. So.

• 37:57Jack Selby?

  Do you feel like though, at the time, being a YouTuber really hurt your credibility?

• 38:01Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I don't really blame them for this because I feel like most YouTubers that do the Meta Glasses thing, you know, like they are, I mean, you know, it's called like rage baiting. So they show up and the mentality is the more I can piss this person off, the bigger of a reaction I'll get and the bigger of a reaction I get, the more money I make. So it basically is if I make you mad, I make more money. And I think that's a net negative for society. I think most people agree, like would agree with that. And so, but that's like what it's kind of come to. Like that's what the like Meta Glasses TikTokers do. And it's very, very rare. You find someone like me who's actually trying to tell like a genuine story and actually try and like, do something that's not for the clicks, like, because I'm not doing it for the clicks and likes and stuff. Like if I was,

• 38:46Speaker 00

  I wouldn't spend nine months making a video with no reward, you know, like I'm doing this because I literally want to like, help this guy and do it at any cost. And like, I want to tell the coolest story in the world. You know, that's like my motivation.

• 38:59Jack Selby?

  So what you said was actually a really interesting point. It was by the time part two had been posted and like all of these things that you're documenting on your YouTube channel, there actually had been no public postings.

• 39:08Speaker 00

  I posted part one and part two on the same day. Yeah.

• 39:11Jack Selby?

  Okay. So, so that's, that's actually fascinating because I as a viewer was kind of under the impression that like, by the time part two had rolled around, part one had already been posted.

• 39:20Speaker 00

  No, I posted on the same day.

• 39:21Jack Selby?

  Even with all of these millions and millions and millions of views, this police department is still just like completely ignoring it. But then you also said that they had actually listened to your responses.

• 39:30Graham Stephan?

  And it came back with a changed story.

• 39:34Speaker 00

  That was in the press release. Yeah. So that was after I posted. So after I posted the video, then they did a press release because I think they were getting a bunch of hate, like you said. And then they changed their story to say, oh, it was a real court case. He just hasn't, he just already served the papers and now he's recreating because I thought they, by saying that they could get out of it, but then the unredacted body cam footage released and we got to see that that was a lie, but.

• 39:55Graham Stephan?

  At any point legally, do you think that maybe you took it too far?

• 40:00Speaker 00

  I, I, I tried to do a thing and everyone has a different line, you know, of what's too far. But for my personal line, I, I, so say like, there's a line right here. I try and see like, okay, how far can I go? Like, how close to that line can I get without crossing? That's my personal goal, you know? Cause I think that's just like the most fun for me, like how, like it's been the whole thing with everything. Like, I don't know, you've, you've seen my Slack hunting videos. It's like, how, how dangerous of a trick can I do without dying? You know, like, I want to get close to like, where it could be like really dangerous, but like, I'm still going to be, you know, how close can I get without crossing it? And so I try and do that with like every aspect of my life, I guess. And maybe for some people, I think the line is here, like a lot of lawyers reacting to it.

• 40:43Speaker 00

  Their line is like down here, you know? So just by me like, like the first 10 minutes of the video where I don't even think I did anything yet. They're like, oh, Ben's already crossing the line, you know? So everyone has a different line.

• 40:54Graham Stephan?

  The one thing I saw was that a lawyer was breaking down you having people sign a document without knowing what the, what was in the document? Were you like changing like a little line in the document and adding it in and then like, sneaking it in and a lot of them were saying it was legal.

• 41:08Speaker 00

  Oh, are you talking about the McKay B. Banner thing? So I don't know. I just cope with like legal, like ideas, I guess, that I just kind of pull out of my butt. I'm like, this would be funny, like, I kind of like the chess move, like this is like the stupidest chess move in the world, but maybe they won't see it coming and maybe that's how I can get away with it. And I just like, I was in a, I was like a mechanical engineer, like a science major in college. And so in science, you just kind of come up with something. You're like, let's test it, you know? Let's see how it works. And so that's what I try and do in my videos. I'm like, here's a hypothesis. Here's some legal thing that may or may not work. Let's try it, you know? And, and let's document the results. And so, yeah, I, I, I'm happy to admit that all my ideas are garbage, but maybe it's not, maybe one works and it's not garbage.

• 41:50Speaker 00

  But I think what you're saying with the, I, I try to make sure that the stuff I'm doing isn't harmful though. So in your thing where it's like, okay, I'm tricking her into signing the document. A lot of people were saying like that's illegal, but I'm pretty sure the actual legality of that is because she doesn't know what she's signing, it's as if the contract doesn't exist. So as long as I don't try to hold her up to and like pressure her into fulfilling the contract that she was trying to sign, then it becomes into fraud territory. But like I brought it up in a joking way. I'm like, well, what about this contract that you know, and like obviously I'm not.

• 42:24Graham Stephan?

  The story that is for actual legal consequences.

• 42:26Speaker 00

  I'm not gonna enforce that. Like I'm not gonna like.

• 42:29Graham Stephan?

  The 5,000.

• 42:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm not gonna show up and be like, oh, you actually owe me 5,000. It was a joke, you know, like there was something else in the contract. I think she had to call me like Lord Ben or something. So it's, it's not anything I'm like actually enforcing. I think we said that they like do the chicken dance in it. I think was one of the things we said. But so none of the things we're actually trying to enforce is just goofy for the sake of being funny.

• 42:47Graham Stephan?

  Come up with these ideas. Like the other one was the lottery.

• 42:50Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:51Graham Stephan?

  How do you come up with this?

• 42:52Speaker 00

  I don't know. I just try to think of like, what would a lawyer tell me to do? And then how do I do the exact opposite kinda? Or I, I, I just think of thing. I don't know. I just have a weird brain, I guess. So the way I came up with the lottery specifically was,

• 43:09Speaker 00

  I, I tried to, my storytelling is I try and take complex things and simplify them so anyone can understand. And so I had no clue what like a civil crime versus criminal crime was. Like I knew they were like legal words, but I didn't really know what they were. So when I'm looking them up, I'm looking up, okay, so these are civil crimes on this side, like it's something the court deals with, and these are criminal crimes, things that the police deal with. And like, it's just, we voted on like, okay, so there's two types of crimes, like one, the police deal with one, the court, and like we just vote on which, who deals with what type of crime. And so I'm going through, like trying to educate myself on this and a way to make it easier on this. I was like, what if we just take one of these criminal crimes and see if we can reframe it as like what's happening, you know?

• 43:50Speaker 00

  And so I'm looking through and the one that seems easiest to me is the stealing from a lottery, you know, that was falls under criminal crime. So I was like, well, technically. Maybe we could frame this as a lottery, you know, like if we actually run a lottery, like there's still Brian's to give out, like maybe we just sell one as a prize and then it could be a lottery. So I thought that was an easy way to illustrate to the audience what a criminal crime versus civil crime was. And, and they're like, okay, now let's just act it out, you know, let's do it in real life. Let's do a lottery and they can pick it up at the thing. And it ended up not working out, but I thought it was worth a shot. It made for some funny footage and.

• 44:24Graham Stephan?

  How much legal research do you do? Like, do you have a lawyer?

• 44:28Speaker 00

  No.

• 44:28Graham Stephan?

  Just like to bounce ideas off of or no?

• 44:31Speaker 00

  No, because they'd probably tell me it doesn't work. And then what's the fun in that, you know, like, like maybe it does work, you know? Like at the end of the day, I think it worked, like we shut the store down and I think we would have won the 10 lawsuits. If we would have actually gone through with it, because I think it would have worked, you know? But I don't know, like it's worked for me every single video so far, like McCamey Manor, like everything we did to him ended up ultimately working. We shut down, I was the last person to ever go through that haunted house. So everything I've done has always worked so far, so.

• 45:01Graham Stephan?

  What do you think is the strongest argument Bricks and Minifix has against you?

• 45:06Speaker 00

  Well, right now they've lied so much that I don't really know. So there, I'll just say what their argument is. So their argument is that Crystal owed them $200,000, which I don't really know their business dispute. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't. She's claiming that they locked her out of her account. So she tried to pay that $200,000 and they wouldn't accept it. And I've had, I've talked to probably four or five other franchise owners that they've done the exact same thing to where they get owed money, but they don't let them pay it. So it seems like Crystal's story holds up, but anyways, that's none of my business, I guess. But Bricks and Minifix's story is that Crystal owed them this $200,000 and they took over the store to reimburse for the $200,000.

• 45:50Speaker 00

  So Brian Setz being in the store is part of Crystal's reimbursement. So Crystal was forced to sell them Setz she doesn't own and now. They're legally, because it says they're Brian sets until sold. So they're like, it was a bill of sale that happened. It's our sets. But then when I questioned them on the bill of sale, they don't have a bill. They said there was a bill of sale, but there isn't one like they couldn't provide it. So that's their story is that they bought Brian sets from Crystal. Now Crystal owes them the money. But I don't think that's how that works. I think.

• 46:23Speaker 00

  It's like the car analogy. Like if my car was parked in the parking lot during the corporate takeover, does corporate also have to keep my car? Because is Crystal now have to pay them for my car that they took from me? Like, that's not how that works, you know?

• 46:34Jack Selby?

  Who do you go to for advice?

• 46:37Speaker 00

  Just myself. Uh, I don't know. I just think on it. I don't really need advice, you know? I just think of something and I'm like, well, let's test it out, you know? I guess the world, it's like, you just come with a hypothesis and you're like, okay, let's, it's just a test, you know? And we just simulate the tests and then record the results and post it online.

• 46:57Jack Selby?

  You said something really interesting in a piece of content I saw where you said that you have like this like legion of people in a Discord group of people that are hackers, people that are experts, like.

• 47:12Speaker 00

  They're the ones that helped me with the previous video I was just telling you about. That's how we found the guy in like two weeks.

• 47:16Jack Selby?

  So explain to me this, this like group of people, like where are they from? How did you encounter them? And what is like the, what is the actual idea of the group? What's the purpose of the?

• 47:26Speaker 00

  There's probably like, I'd say like less than 10 of us. It's a very small group, but and. I wouldn't say we're like skilled. They're all kind of like people like me. They're just like really like passionate, you know, with like little skills, but like very passionate. Cause I think passion will beat skill set any day, you know, as long as you're passionate about something like you put your mind to something like we'll solve it. And so that's kind of what these people are. They're just people that are like, super like, dude, I want to solve this thing, you know, that don't really care about like getting super famous or anything, or don't really care about like. Yeah, like anything else except for like I have a problem. I want to go to any means necessary to solve this problem and not take no for an answer. And that's what this group of people is like. And I just put at the end of my video once, I was just like, hey, anyone want to help me investigate things?

• 48:10Speaker 00

  And I had like a couple of people hit me up and I just put them in a discord and we just started going to town, I guess.

• 48:17Graham Stephan?

  What skills do you think are the most important to solving mysteries like this?

• 48:20Speaker 00

  Oh, just not taking no for an answer. I think you can be as skilled as you want, but if you're not passionate about it, you're not gonna. I mean, this is like, you'll hear every YouTuber say this. Like I hear Mr. Beast say this all the time. You know, he's like, I don't want necessarily the best editor in the world. I just want someone who like, won't take no for an answer and will just grind because that person like, the only. Cause that's how you become good, you know, is just by like, cause the more you practice something, the more you try, you're gonna get better naturally just from the hours you put in. So I think that's what separates a good person from a not like a talented person from not talented person. It's not like, I was just born talented at this. You're like, no, I'm good at this because I was passionate. I tried hard, you know? And because I was so passionate about this, I became the best at it.

• 49:02Speaker 00

  And that's like literally the only thing stopping people is like, either they don't care enough or they just don't want it badly enough. But as long as you like want something badly, like you'll figure out a way to achieve it.

• 49:15Graham Stephan?

  Is there something you couldn't solve?

• 49:16Speaker 00

  I don't know, actually. May, probably. Uh, yeah, I think so, like some things, but then it just, we don't put it in the. There's definitely a lot of dead ends. I'll say that. Uh, and then, cause I like my stories to be like this leads to this, which leads to this, which leads to this. And it always like one thing leads to the next. Like I hate dead ends or it's like, cause it's like, why did I just go down this dead end just to go back? Like, why didn't that not lead anywhere? So I hate doing dead ends. I like everything that leads to the next thing. So there are a lot of dead ends. I'll just cut them from the video usually, but.

• 49:47Graham Stephan?

  I would love to see you solving your cases, like find serial killers.

• 49:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that'd be cool too. I've thought about it. So there's two things with that. First off, I don't want to. Cause like, if I go after murderers and stuff, they could just kill me because they're murderers, you know? So they're already killing people. They might kill me. And if I'm dead, I can't do more future investigations. So that's kind of scary.

• 50:08Graham Stephan?

  You'd solve crimes that were maybe like 30 years ago or maybe now.

• 50:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:12Graham Stephan?

  A little senile and they might not be as like.

• 50:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:16Graham Stephan?

  Quick.

• 50:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. And the other thing is like, I like to have fun with my videos, you know, it's kind of hard to like. Talk about like, someone's like, and like, cause if I'm like having fun doing that and people are gonna be like, oh, why is he taking such a lighthearted approach to a murder? Like, why isn't Ben being serio- and then it kind- cause I, I do this not because of like views or money or anything. Like, I've never made money my entire life, or like my whole career, I've never made anything. Like, I used to be an engineer, I was making way more in college as an engineer than I am as a YouTuber right now. So, like, I'm not doing this for my- I'm doing this because it's fun for me, you know? And if I start, if it starts not becoming fun, then I don't know.

• 50:56Graham Stephan?

  I thought you would be making way more money with the amount of views that you've been getting.

• 51:01Speaker 00

  Well, from the Lego thing, I'm, I'm finally starting to not have to worry about money now, but I, before, I guess even McCamey Manor is when I could finally be like, okay, now I can finally pay rent and not be scared about paying rent and food. But before McCamey Manor, yeah, I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna pay rent this month. Uh, like, I don't know how, like, I remember, like, eating Thanksgiving, just like plain pasta, no, uh, like, I couldn't even afford pesto sauce, I was just eating, it was so sad. And I was like, damn, like, one day I'll be able to afford pesto sauce, was my thinking.

• 51:32Graham Stephan?

  What were you doing though, like, month to month, to pay the bills?

• 51:36Speaker 00

  Um, I would just take like random gigs and stuff. Um, like, I was a cameraman for some of my friends, they would pay me to like, hold the camera for them, like filming their videos and stuff. And, uh, just like stupid jobs, I don't know.

• 51:50Jack Selby?

  Like, what, what, what kind of jo- like handyman jobs?

• 51:53Speaker 00

  So I would hold the camera a lot, that was kind of a one that was just like, I'll, I'll just do it for like two hours and make like a hundred bucks, you know? And if you do that 10 times, that's like rent.

• 52:02Speaker 00

  And then I was making some money from AdSense, but I would, it was just so unpredictable, cause like randomly, like, I would just get demonetized or my video will get taken down for no reason. Um, that's been like my whole YouTube career. Uh, I don't know, I did a TV show called The Go Big Show that paid kinda well, I guess. I think I made $5,000 from that, so that lasted me like five months. Cause I was, like, I, I split a room with my friends, so we only had to pay $500 a month for rent. So it was a thousand dollar room that we like, it was a teeny tiny room and me and my friend both lived in there, so we like split rent. Um, and we would just eat like canned chicken and wrap it in a tortilla every day, or like plain spaghetti.

• 52:40Graham Stephan?

  That's crazy to me, because, because I see this now as like, oh my, you're so talented.

• 52:45Jack Selby?

  As like a filmmaker, I wouldn't even call them YouTube videos.

• 52:48Speaker 00

  Well, that's why I always thought that I was always like, dude, I'm making the best stuff on YouTube. But then my stuff would just get demonetized and taken down like within the hour, like it'll go like super, super viral. And then like one or two hours in, it just like gets flagged and restricted.

• 53:04Jack Selby?

  Quit because you've been making videos now for like 10 years. How did you not like six years in be like, dude, I'm like, it's camp rent.

• 53:11Speaker 00

  I mean, I don't need money to be happy. You know, like, I don't need anything to be happy, except for like having friends and going on fun adventures and just like, that's what I want, you know, like when I'm 90 years old, I'm not going to be like, oh, I'm happy because I made a lot of money. I'm going to be thinking, I'm happy because I went on cool adventures with my friends, you know? So yeah, I could be a mechanical engineer, like I went to college for sitting in a cubicle, making a bunch of money, you know? And but then like, I'm going to be 80 years old and I'm going to look back on my life and I'm like, wow, I threw my life away for money. I actually saw a really scary like Instagram video. I think it was this morning when I was waking up like on reels. It was like animation and this guy, he's, he walks into like a store and he's like, he's like, I want to give you 10 years of my life for like

• 53:56Speaker 00

  a thousand dollars. Like it's like kind of a metaphor on like corporate America. And I don't know, it's just really scary to me that you can like, give your time away for money. And so, because I don't get any happiness from money, you know, like things don't get, make me happy, like experiences and hanging out with friends. That makes me happy, you know? So the more I want that, even if I have less money is kind of my goal.

• 54:19Jack Selby?

  Are you stressed out right now with the lawsuits?

• 54:22Speaker 00

  No, it's fun. I love it. Uh, so I've always said, I think my favorite thing in life is getting into a hard situation and then trying to figure out your way out of it, you know, it's like solving a puzzle. That's what a puzzle is, you know, it's like, I have something hard and I'm going to solve this, you know? And this is kind of the same thing. Like it's what McKinney Manor was. It's like, put yourself in a really scary, hard situation and try and get out of it. So it's kind of the same thing. It's, oh, I'm in a really scary lawsuit. Let's probably, if we, if we're creative, then we can come out on top, you know? And this is like exactly what I look for. This is a, this is so fun for me.

• 54:55Jack Selby?

  Speaking of problems that you're not able to solve, I'm curious if you've ever considered looking into the federal or like local budgets of the government?

• 55:04Speaker 00

  Oh, I was thinking about it. Um. I was actually talking about this, I think, yesterday. Um, we were like, what if we looked into all the fraud the government does? Cause I think the Pentagon has like trillions of dollars that are just unaccounted for. It's like, where does that money go? You know? And it seems like that could be like a big thing to investigate. But there's two things with that. The first one is like, am I actually gonna be able to like solve anything? You know, like you might need like really high clearance for that. Like all of my antics are just kind of like, you saw on the leg of it, like there's stupid things I'm just pulling out of my, like, I'm a good storyteller, but like, when it comes to like real like deep state corruption, I don't know if

• 55:47Speaker 00

  I'm like the man for that. Maybe I am, I don't know. But, uh, and the other thing is then say I do happen to solve this, like where there's trillions of dollars of debt went, or like this trillions of dollars, unaccounted money went, like, are they gonna like kill me if I like, I'm about to release a secret, you know? I feel like they would kill someone for like a trillion dollars, you know?

• 56:04Jack Selby?

  Yeah. What do you think about Nick Shirley?

• 56:06Speaker 00

  I, I haven't really watched many of his videos. I think he investigates some like really important problems to investigate. And I've, I've heard some people don't really like his investigative style, I guess. Like he, he's kind of similar to me, I guess, where we just kind of are stupid about it.

• 56:26Speaker 00

  So I, I don't, I, I gotta watch more of his videos. I don't really have an opinion on him, but I, I have heard some of the things he's uncovered is like really insane. Like all the fraud and stuff he's uncovered is pretty crazy from what I've heard.

• 56:38Jack Selby?

  Yeah. Maybe you could start with something like, like local government funds misappropriation or something instead of going straight for the Pentagon. Cause I also think that realistically that's going to be impossible.

• 56:48Speaker 00

  Yeah. I think, I think the government is really inefficient and they're really like wasteful. So I think we need people like us to hold them accountable, I think, you know? And to like shine light on it or else, cause I think the thing with like, they say with businesses, right? Like you have like Apple and Microsoft competing to be the best, right? And so because there's that competition, they're both gonna do the best they can to, cause if they don't, if they're not trying their absolute hardest to make the best products, then their competition is going to make the best. Product and people were to buy from them instead. So competition forces you to make a better product and to like do things ethically. And then with the government, there's no competition. So like, oh, I can just do all this fraud and stuff and no one's gonna keep me accountable.

• 57:31Speaker 00

  You know, because I'm the government, they have to like, keep paying their taxes. Like, there's no competition with that.

• 57:36Jack Selby?

  Who's gonna get mad at the Pentagon for failing? Like, they've never won an audit.

• 57:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:41Jack Selby?

  They've only ever failed, but it doesn't matter.

• 57:42Graham Stephan?

  I think it's more relatable to show these stories like you're highlighting with Lego, that it is a normal person dealing with a company with a lot of money and legal resources behind them.

• 57:52Speaker 00

  Uh huh. I'm down to do whatever, like the 12 videos I'm working on, they're all kind of the same where it's like, oh, I'm just some dude solving these crazy crimes, you know? But all the crimes are different, you know, like they're all very, very different things. Like ranging from like, some of them are silly, some of them are very serious. But all of them have a good story and all of them are like, from the perspective of like a guy with just like no resources, which is how they're all connected.

• 58:20Graham Stephan?

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• 59:04Graham Stephan?

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• 59:47Graham Stephan?

  Shopify.com slash ICH. How many times have you been arrested?

• 59:52Speaker 00

  Twice. Um, and there were two days in a row for the Lego video.

• 59:56Graham Stephan?

  What was that like getting arrested?

• 59:58Speaker 00

  Uh, it was pretty fun. Um, I like new experiences, so it was a new experience. Cause normally I feel like I'm on the other side where I'm like, oh, like I'm getting you in trouble, you know? So now I get to kind of like see what it's like for a criminal to go through it.

• 1:00:13Graham Stephan?

  How was it fun? Like, did you actually go in the cell and everything?

• 1:00:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, that sucked. Yeah, that was boring. Yeah. I was in there for, it got boring after like the second or third hour where I'm just sitting there without a phone and just like, like, what do I do? Like, it's like the middle of the day. I tried to sleep, but I was like, I'm not tired. So it was like, just kind of boring. I was just like wasting time. Like, I could be filming. I have so many cool ideas I want to do and I'm just sitting here not able to do them. So it was frustrating, but like, give you like my mugshot, that was pretty fun. Talking to the police officers, that was pretty fun.

• 1:00:41Graham Stephan?

  And when you're in a cell, are you in there by yourself or with other people?

• 1:00:45Speaker 00

  I was by myself. If I was with other people, it probably would have been fun. But yeah, just being by myself. It was kind of like in solitary confinement pretty much. It was just really boring.

• 1:00:54Graham Stephan?

  Did you worry about going to jail for a long time? Because there was that incident where they were trying to get out of the bail.

• 1:01:02Speaker 00

  Um, I actually didn't find out about that until after I got released, so I wasn't really scared. And then afterwards I found out, I'm like, wait, they're trying to take away my bail? What the heck? And so I didn't know that when I was in there, so I wasn't really scared. I was kind of just like chilling. Cause I was like, oh, I'll get on bail. I made a GoFundMe, you know, like I can get out on this. This will be easy. I didn't think they would just hold me for like a month, but then later after I get released, I look at the paperwork and I'm like, oh, they weren't trying to hold me until my court date. That's insane.

• 1:01:27Jack Selby?

  We had a very like limited conversation. We took like a small 15, 20 minute.

• 1:01:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:32Jack Selby?

  Because Graham wanted to bid on some items on Heritage Auctions, more like Jack Skeleton, Skellington or whatever, like art, original art. I don't even know, but.

• 1:01:40Graham Stephan?

  Skellington.

• 1:01:40Jack Selby?

  During that, like, we had like a very brief conversation about not caring about money. Cause I asked you, would you want some of this original art that you used in the show or movie? And you said, no. Material possessions mean nothing.

• 1:01:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:52Jack Selby?

  I want to dive deeper into that.

• 1:01:54Speaker 00

  I pretty much own nothing. I just have my computer and my hard drives. It's pretty much all I own. And maybe like some like cords and I guess like some GoPros and stuff. Uh, I actually just bought a drone because I think that could be a really cool shot. But that's pretty much all my like belongings that I own. Uh, I don't really buy things. Um, yeah, I would basically just put all my money into videos and stuff. Um, I mean, I, I used to be different where I was like a mechanical engineer and in a cubicle. And then I ended up breaking my neck and almost died, like clogged my artery and stuff. And so there was like a week period where the doctors were like, oh, you could just like die. And like, you could just like be dead soon, you know? Um, because they were like, they didn't know if it was like fully clawed. It ended up being fully clogged, which is good.

• 1:02:38Speaker 00

  But if it was partially clogged, I would have got like a blood clot would go to my brain and have a stroke and die. So it was like kind of scary and I just kind of started thinking, I was like, wow. Like if I died right now, I would have worked my entire life to like get money, you know? Like to like go to do a job I don't like, like study, like a subject that I'm not really super passionate about. Just so I can have a job I don't like. So eventually I can get the reward of money at the end, you know? And I was like, if I just died now, like I just wasted my whole life for like nothing. So I like instantly just like dropped out of college. I was like, I'm going to live a life where when I die, I'm, I'm going to look back and like, my one chance at life, I lived it correctly, you know, where I'm just going to do things that actually bring me happiness.

• 1:03:21Speaker 00

  Like friends and experiences rather than just like getting money for things. And so, but yeah, dropping out of college, I just had a bunch of college debt. Cause I was in college for like three and a half years, I think. It was like right before graduations, but I dropped out. And, um, and so I just have all this debt and no money to my name. And yeah, I was just like, I was like, oh, I'm just going to travel around. So I just started traveling for like two years. And just going to like different parts of like the world and meeting people. It was really fun. And I had like nothing. I was just traveling for like two years. And then I finally landed in California and I just lived at the beach for like six months. And just yeah, like

• 1:04:01Graham Stephan?

  What do you mean lived at the beach?

• 1:04:03Speaker 00

  So it was like a slackline park. Uh, I was trying to become the best slackliner in the world.

• 1:04:07Jack Selby?

  This is like Venice?

• 1:04:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:08Jack Selby?

  Okay.

• 1:04:08Speaker 00

  I know what you're Santa Monica.

• 1:04:09Jack Selby?

  Yeah, I know what you're, I've seen the people slackline.

• 1:04:11Graham Stephan?

  Oh yeah, they're good.

• 1:04:12Speaker 00

  Yeah. So I would just like live at the slackline. I just wake up slackline all day and go to sleep. Wake up slackline all day and go to sleep.

• 1:04:16Graham Stephan?

  Where would you sleep?

• 1:04:17Speaker 00

  Just like a sleeping bag on the beach. So I didn't have money for like a house or anything, you know, I didn't have any money. So I was just living there.

• 1:04:25Jack Selby?

  How did you afford like food?

• 1:04:26Speaker 00

  Um, so I, I created my own brand of slacklines and so I just had to sell like one slackline a day and that would make me food. And so I would just like have like all the people there like knew I was like selling slacklines. It was like a really touristy area. So sometimes I would sell like two or three in a day. And then that's like food for like two or three.

• 1:04:43Graham Stephan?

  How much do you sell a slackline for?

• 1:04:44Speaker 00

  Like a hundred bucks, but then I would have to pay for like the materials and stuff. So I'd probably make like $50 profit per slackline I sold.

• 1:04:53Jack Selby?

  And you just lived like this for six months?

• 1:04:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:57Jack Selby?

  And did you enjoy it?

• 1:04:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was fun. It was awesome. Uh, I got to like meet really cool people. We went on like cool adventures and stuff and it was, it was awesome. Yeah.

• 1:05:05Jack Selby?

  And traveling the world, what was your favorite place you went to?

• 1:05:08Speaker 00

  Um, Mexico was pretty fun. We did some cool stuff. I lived in Mexico for like a month. And there's just like no rules in Mexico. You can just do like whatever you want. Like we set up a slackline over a nightclub at one point and we started doing like backflips over the people. I remember the thing I was like, you don't need like a waiver or anything. Like is there insurance? They're like, no, you can just do it. Like the club owner's like, yeah, you can just do it. Okay. He's like, I trust you. I'm like, dude, we would never be doing this in America. This is insane. It was so fun.

• 1:05:32Graham Stephan?

  So what does that teach you then about life? And what do you think most people get wrong about like taking a traditional path?

• 1:05:38Speaker 00

  I don't know. I was definitely way happier, uh, doing that than as like a mechanical engineer, you know, so.

• 1:05:46Speaker 00

  I don't know. I, I think a lot of people like myself included, there's taught as a kid, you know, like this is your life purpose. Like you're going to get a job, make money, provide for your family and stuff. And

• 1:06:02Speaker 00

  I don't know. I think a lot of people end up like just wasting their lives because of that. Which sucks because like you only have one chance. You're like, why waste it? You know, like we don't get a redo. Like you're probably gonna be like 80 years old and be like, oh, I wish I could have done something different. But then it's too late, you know, like you can't change it. And I think a lot of people, at least for me, like I always knew death was coming, but you kind of like put it on the back burner. It's like, ah, it's a low priority for me. You know, I'm dealing with this other stuff. And then, but then like once death becomes like your main priority, like if you have like a near death experience, then you start to prioritize like living life more, I think.

• 1:06:35Graham Stephan?

  How did you break your neck?

• 1:06:38Speaker 00

  Uh, I think it was like a double front flip 360 and I over rotated and they call it like a scorpion. So I laid on my face. And then the rest of my body just like went forward. So I like

• 1:06:47Graham Stephan?

  On what? On a slack line?

• 1:06:48Speaker 00

  Uh, no, I think it was on a trampoline going to like the ground. I was going for like trampoline transition to the ground. It was really bad. Yeah.

• 1:06:57Graham Stephan?

  Have you trampled since then?

• 1:06:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, uh, I still do it. Um, I just did a cyclone competition when I was in Mexico. It was fun.

• 1:07:04Graham Stephan?

  Did you win?

• 1:07:05Speaker 00

  No, I got 10th place or 11th place.

• 1:07:07Graham Stephan?

  That's pretty, I imagine that's good.

• 1:07:09Speaker 00

  It was like the top 20 people in the world showed up. So

• 1:07:11Graham Stephan?

  Holy cow.

• 1:07:11Speaker 00

  Uh, I'm still like top 20 in the world, I guess, would you say?

• 1:07:14Graham Stephan?

  Now, I'm curious, when you broke your neck, what did it feel like?

• 1:07:18Speaker 00

  Um, actually surprisingly not much pain in my neck. I hurt my shoulder a ton. It hurt. I felt all the way down my fingers. Um, but I remember I didn't even go to the hospital for like over 24 hours. I actually went on a camping trip the next day. We went into the woods. I was like, we're on like a six mile hike.

• 1:07:33Graham Stephan?

  Why?

• 1:07:33Speaker 00

  And, uh, cause I thought I just pulled my shoulder. Um, I was like, oh, I probably just like, I didn't feel that much pain. It was all my shoulder that hurt. I guess it hits nerves and stuff, but and then finally I was in so much pain. I didn't take any pain medicine or anything, um, which was probably stupid. About 20, it was about the 24 hour mark. I started like throwing up because I was in so much pain and then like kind of passed out. And I, I just like pushing myself, you know? And so this was like my full like moment and I started having kind of like a panic attack because like no matter what I did, like I couldn't like rest my shoulder. I was just so exhausted at this point, you know? Where no matter what I did, I just couldn't stop the pain. I just had a panic attack and then yeah, started like throwing up. Kind of almost like passed out. My friends like took me to the hospital.

• 1:08:16Speaker 00

  And then finally did an X-ray and they're like, oh yeah, you have a broken neck. And I was like, ah, it makes sense.

• 1:08:19Graham Stephan?

  How could you take, take a hike and like go 24 hours with a broken neck? How is that even possible?

• 1:08:25Speaker 00

  Um, I

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• 1:08:56Speaker 00

  Oh, no, I mean, it was good vibes. You know, like, we were having fun. It was me and my friends. We were chilling. But then I remember what happened was, like, we were just having a good time. I think it's like the mental state I was in was just like, good. And then, because we were all having fun, you know, like, this is like our vacation. Like, we all, we've been playing this for like months. I guess it's like camping trip. We were gonna go down to like New River Gorge for like Bridge Day and watch all the base jumpers jump off and stuff, the bridge. And, and then, um, I remember my friend's dog like ran away. So all my friends went to go like find the dog. So I'm just sitting there by myself. And that's when like, the positive vibes left me, you know? And then it's just me and my thoughts. And then I started, like, it was like the first time ever having like, like a panic, like I had like a real like panic attack where I was like, I don't know if I can deal with this pain, you know? Like, this pain's like more, like, it was like so overwhelming.

• 1:09:41Speaker 00

  And I have like my friends to like, because we were like making jokes and stuff the whole day. It was all chill, but then, once it was just me, it was bad.

• 1:09:49Jack Selby?

  What did it feel like to have a panic attack?

• 1:09:50Speaker 00

  I don't know. You know, like, if you've ever taken like a bunch of acid or something, you have like a bad trip. It was kind of like that, I guess. Uh, if you, just like a really bad, like, I don't know. That's probably the best way I could describe it. Like, the way people describe like bad, like, DMT experiences or something. It kind of feels like that, where like, you're just, your thoughts are in control of you. You're not in control of your thoughts, you know? And, uh, I don't know. It's just, like, you're having too many thoughts. Like, you're having thoughts fast and you can process them. And then, you just...

• 1:10:21Jack Selby?

  And how did you physically experience a panic attack?

• 1:10:24Speaker 00

  I don't know. I just started like throwing up and I just felt like I was gonna pass out. And then, my friends came back and they're like, oh yeah, Ben's not good. We gotta take him to the hospital.

• 1:10:33Jack Selby?

  I don't know. I just remember like sitting there just like, I remember like no matter what position I kept like trying to change position. Every time I changed position, it would just get worse. And I remember like, I cannot deal with this pain, but at the same time, I can't do anything about it. So I, I don't know. And how long after this near death experience, did you decide to change the course of your life? Probably like the next week, I'd say, I don't know. Yeah, maybe like two weeks later. No, I went to work. I remember I was working at Cubicle at the time. So I went to work for probably another like couple of weeks and then I was like, I'm going to drop out. This sucks. What did your parents think when you were living at the beach? Oh, they were pretty scared. I think they thought I was going to become like some like homeless crackhead person. But I was like functional, you know, I was like training to be like the best cyclist in the world at the time and

• 1:11:17Jack Selby?

  yeah, I was just like just training, like it was just wake up, just train and then go to sleep, wake up, train. Did they ever offer to like send you money for food? No, I, I, I maybe they would have, but I wanted to like be able to do it on my own, you know? I didn't want help from people. Cause I was like 20 something, I was like probably 20 years old and what's interesting is that like I sort of share that same sentiment of like, I don't really find the value in like acquiring more money. I feel like I'm just supposed to get more money. You know what I mean? Like for me, like if, if you know me, I mean, most of the time I'm just wearing like, Why do you trade options, Jack? Why do you do that?

• 1:11:57Jack Selby?

  I, I like the, I like growth. Like for me, it's really fun. So like an easy, like an easy thing to grow is, is money by selling options. But like for the most part, like these shorts I bought at Ross for like $11 and I've been wearing them for four years. I don't really care about material things. I just feel like I'm supposed to want to acquire more money. And so I just kind of do it for the sake of that. But I also know that it is actually like, there's a part of it that's very responsible because while I may not need or want very much money, I know that in the future I will have a family that does. And I'm curious, like, do you have a girlfriend? Yeah. No, I think about the same thing too. Like eventually I do want money so I can like give my kids a good life, you know?

• 1:12:39Jack Selby?

  Like it would suck if my kids don't have anything and yeah, it would definitely suck. And also the other thing I want money for is to hire like editors because right now it's like I film for this much and edit for this much, you know? So if I can, like,

• 1:12:56Speaker 00

  Like edit less, I guess, if I can like delegate that to other people, then I can fill more things, you know, and then I can, and then therefore like live a better life, I guess, because now I'm going on more adventures and doing more things to help people and I can take on more of these cases where people are like, oh, I'm in need of reckless Ben to help me, you know, that can help more people.

• 1:13:15Jack Selby?

  How old are you?

• 1:13:16Speaker 00

  Uh, I just turned thirty.

• 1:13:17Jack Selby?

  Really?

• 1:13:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, I look super young, but now I'm, I'm old.

• 1:13:20Jack Selby?

  Interesting, because I would have assumed that like if, yeah, if you were thirty, like I've felt this pressure for like a long time. It's like, I, I guess I don't need money, but I know that like I, I don't even have a girlfriend, but once I get a girlfriend, she's probably gonna want to be taken out on dates. And then once we become married and have kids, like I have to pay for the wedding, I have to pay for my kids.

• 1:13:38Graham Stephan?

  Maybe she's the one that makes the money, Jack.

• 1:13:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:13:41Graham Stephan?

  She does well.

• 1:13:42Jack Selby?

  That's true.

• 1:13:42Graham Stephan?

  She.

• 1:13:43Jack Selby?

  And if you're a woman that makes a lot of money and you're really attractive and you're funny and lighthearted, you know where to find me in the descriptions, my Instagram, so.

• 1:13:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, but also if you look at like rich couples and like poor couples, I wonder if there's, like if rich couples have a better relationship than poor couples, I don't know.

• 1:14:01Jack Selby?

  Well, one of the biggest reasons for divorce is financial infidelity. So it's like.

• 1:14:07Speaker 00

  Really?

• 1:14:07Jack Selby?

  Yeah, so I, I think that it depends, it's probably a bell curve. You know what I mean? Like if you're super, super, super wealthy, like all of those wealthy people, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, all those people have gotten divorced. But then again, like if you have no money, then that's just another thing to argue about. And so I'm sure that.

• 1:14:23Graham Stephan?

  Probably a healthy medium.

• 1:14:24Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, I've heard, yeah, like once you're like super poor, it's like a big stress in your life, because it was stressful, like, like, I guess living on the beach wasn't that stressful, because it was like, I just wake up, train, just have fun all day and go to sleep. There's not much stress in that, I guess, but

• 1:14:41Speaker 00

  with like, when I first started like living in a house, it was like, how am I gonna pay rent this month? Am I gonna have to do something I don't wanna do in order to pay, like, am I have to give away my time in order to pay this rent? And that's, that's like the worst feeling ever is like having to give up your time. In order to like be able to just have basic needs, you know? So that definitely sucked. And, and so I guess you're like, once you start making more money, you don't have to worry about stuff like that. But then, once you have like a bunch of money, then I feel like it gets kind of crazy again, you know, where now people just want you for your money. They don't want to actually have a good relationship with you because of you. They just like, maybe there's other intentions there and stuff. And so I feel like there's that like medium point. It's like the perfect amount of money to have, you know?

• 1:15:19Jack Selby?

  I would agree, but also I'll contend with that a little bit. Like, I think if it's a girl that wants you just because of your money, like what, what amount of money would you say that is?

• 1:15:28Speaker 00

  Oh, shoot, I don't know. Yeah, I definitely would hate to be with someone if they're like, oh, Ben's rich, so I want to be with.

• 1:15:34Jack Selby?

  But I think it's a lot of money because the type of girl that would want you for your money would not go after a dude who has $5 million. Like she would go after a dude who has like 50 million.

• 1:15:44Graham Stephan?

  There's always going to be someone for money.

• 1:15:46Jack Selby?

  Or like 30 mil, like 100 million. Like those are the people that they would realistically go after, not some guy who has 5 million. If you're the person that prioritizes that as like number one.

• 1:15:53Graham Stephan?

  But it's also how loose you are with your money. It's not the dude with 5 million, it's the dude with 5 million who spends 5 million.

• 1:15:59Jack Selby?

  Sure, but he's living like he has 5. The idea is like, if you, if you're living like you should, if you have five, like you're probably not going to get a bunch of women that are chasing after you for your money. But it is probably a good thing, and I could be wrong here, challenge me if you think I am, that a girl does want the guy, or at least just like the unit in and of themselves, to be able to be financially comfortable. Like that is, I would say.

• 1:16:22Graham Stephan?

  I don't know, I think more women would be attracted to the dude who's just like sleeping on a sleeping bag on the beach, living his life, having a good.

• 1:16:28Jack Selby?

  I think, yeah, at a younger age, but I think once you want to have kids, like I think they want security.

• 1:16:33Speaker 00

  Cause the, the woman too wants the best thing for her family, you know? And the guy just sleeping on the beach isn't going to be able to provide for his family.

• 1:16:40Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, but that guy is carefree, he's exciting, he doesn't have any sort of like expectations. That is an adventure and I, I think a lot of women would rather the adventure than the, the cubicle.

• 1:16:51Jack Selby?

  I think they cheat on the cubicle guy with the guy who's going on. I don't think, but they're not going to get married to the guy who can't like, you know, financially support their kids.

• 1:17:00Graham Stephan?

  But do you want to be the dude that the girl's just going to like settle with and marry? Like, is that, which life would you rather live?

• 1:17:06Jack Selby?

  We, us three, I think need to figure out what goes on in this place. We, we know what women want.

• 1:17:12Graham Stephan?

  Yes, let's, three men just turn, we know.

• 1:17:16Speaker 00

  Well, my, my mentality is I want to be happy with no money. And if that's the case, but then, once I get money, that's like the sprinkles on top.

• 1:17:25Jack Selby?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:17:26Speaker 00

  So it's like, I don't want to not have money, you know, like now that money's coming in because of this Lego thing. It's like, awesome, you know, I'm like, super happy, but it's like, I don't need that. You know what I mean? It's just like the, the extra on top, like I, I'm already happy without the money. And now the, I don't need the money to be happy. Cause I think what happens a lot of times is people are like, oh, once I get rich, then I can be happy. And then they get rich and they're not happy, you know? But I'm already happy. So now that I'm like, starting to like, see money come in, it's like, well, now I can be happy with that too, you know?

• 1:17:53Jack Selby?

  I agree with you fully on that. In high school, I was very, very, very happy, like running cross country. I had like my core group of friends. I loved life. And then like, I started working really hard and I started making good money at like the age of 21. I'm 27 now, so I had like six years of like aggressively saving. Like I really never spent more than 10, five to 10% on like personal things. Obviously I had like other expenses, like mortgage and whatnot, but like on personal things, I hardly spent any money. The problem is that once you, like I, I save so aggressively to develop a nest egg. But once you have a nest egg, then you have something to lose. And so like, yes, it may be fun, like in the beginning, but after you like grind and, you know, scrimp and save after a certain amount of time.

• 1:18:35Jack Selby?

  I've noticed that like, maybe the relationship with money can actually get a little bit less healthy. Cause you're worried about losing it.

• 1:18:43Speaker 00

  Ah, yeah, it's interesting. I, I haven't ever gotten to that point yet really, but.

• 1:18:49Graham Stephan?

  I think now it really makes a lot of sense why you're not bothered by a lot of the things that have happened to you. Like getting arrested, these lawsuits.

• 1:18:56Jack Selby?

  If you got sued, you have nothing to lose.

• 1:18:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:18:59Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, it's like going from where you were and you were happy, living on the beach, going day to day, essentially. It's like now you getting hit with a lawsuit. It's like.

• 1:19:09Speaker 00

  It's like, who cares?

• 1:19:10Graham Stephan?

  Who cares? It's, it's nothing like your worst case scenario is you go back to doing what made you happy to begin with.

• 1:19:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:16Jack Selby?

  No, I think the same thing. Yeah, for sure. People that like it takes at least somewhat of a while to earn money, like not just like one year or two years, but it takes you like five years to like have somewhat of like a nest egg. They're very scared of losing it. But that's, that's because they did something they don't like to get that money, I think. So for me, like doing this whole Lego thing was super fun for me. Like I had a blast in the editing room when I'm like editing and I'm like coming up with ideas. I'm like, this is so cool. I get to tell this story and I'm having so much fun. So it's like, even if this Lego video flops and gets demonetized, I'm still happy because I had fun doing like, it was the adventure that made me happy, not the destination, you know? Yeah, but the thing is you never know what you're going to end up enjoying in the future. And what if the thing that you enjoy in the future actually doesn't make any money?

• 1:19:59Jack Selby?

  And that's like, like while I do love what I've done and I love what I'm doing right now, I do worry like randomly on a random Tuesday evening, probably four years ago, I realized I love pickleball. What if I wanted to go be a pickleball pro? Like realistically, I'm not going to make any money until I become really good. And so like, I want to open up my optionality, like in the future, I want to be able to do whatever I want to do. We'll do both. Do a podcasting and be a pickleball pro. True, but then I also love chilling. Well, then chill also.

• 1:20:28Graham Stephan?

  Jack likes doing a lot of things.

• 1:20:29Jack Selby?

  I, yeah.

• 1:20:30Graham Stephan?

  I get excited over. 95% of them make no money. They have negative money.

• 1:20:33Jack Selby?

  Yeah, yeah. Dang, we'll just do everything. That's been my life philosophy. If it's fun, go do it. How much do you sleep? I try to get eight hours of sleep a night. This month hasn't been good on me, but before this month, I tried to get eight hours a night. Cause I think, uh, even though you're sleeping, like for more than like, say someone who sleeps like four hours a night, the person who sleeps four hours a night isn't going to be as productive during the day because they're tired, you know? So like, I think you're more productive to sleep more because then you get more done during the day. That's what I always thought about Elon Musk. Elon Musk claims he's like, yeah, I sleep like three to four hours a night, like when I'm really. But he's also like a weird, one of a kind. Yeah. I don't know if that applies to like people like me, you know, like I need my sleep or else I'm not productive.

• 1:21:15Jack Selby?

  I agree. Like everyone makes, let's say, just say like 3,000 decisions a day, but I feel like it's really like down to 15 decisions that actually make a material impact on your life. And you want to make sure that you're in a really good spot, like mentally to make those 15 important decisions. Yeah, I think he has like Asperger's or something. So I think his brain works. He says his brain's always on, like. I think he probably has. He realizes that his brain's different than other people. So maybe Elon Musk can get away with it, but your average person's going to need their sleep. I agree.

• 1:21:43Speaker 02

  They need more.

• 1:21:43Jack Selby?

  I think we just solved the Asperger's too. Actually, no, we didn't solve that. We did solve lack of productivity. You just need more sleep.

• 1:21:49Graham Stephan?

  How much money have you raised so far for your legal defense?

• 1:21:53Jack Selby?

  Well, the GoFundMe is at half a million dollars. So what we, the plan is, is obviously Brian's first priority. Let's refund him, get him his legal fees. Cause why are they gonna sue Brian? Like, why are they gonna steal from him and then sue him? That makes no sense. So let's get him legally protected, then I'm probably the second priority. Cause if I get sued, I can't make any more videos on them. And I know the public definitely wants to see more videos coming out. So me and my friends were probably the second priority. And then after that, I still think there's a lot of money left. After that, so we're giving it to all the franchise owner. Cause we've seen a pattern of Brandon and Josh, the same people that took over Crystal's store. They do the same thing where they like, don't let them pay money or something. And then they're like, oh, you broke your franchise agreement, you know, like,

• 1:22:37Jack Selby?

  or they'll do something that they got approval for, and then they steal the store from them and they steal their lives. So say I'm just some like small business owner, like, I want to start my own bricks and minifigs. I'm gonna invest my life savings. Like, a lot of times it's like 400, 500,000 dollars, like half a million dollars. I pour this into this business and then corporate just steals my whole store from me and I get nothing in return. Like, that sucks, you know?

• 1:22:58Graham Stephan?

  Why would someone open a franchise of bricks and minifigs? Why not just open up your own store and just?

• 1:23:05Jack Selby?

  Cause before this, Bricks and Minifigs was a very, before my video on them, they were a very, very respected company. So say I open a Bricks and Minifigs, yes, I have to give them 6% to use their brand name. But I might get 15 to 20% more customers because Bricks and Minifigs is a well-respected name in the community. And so if I open a Bricks and Minifigs, more customers are gonna come in, you know, cause it's a trusted name. It's like the reason people buy like Cheerios rather than the off-brand. Just cause it's a, even though it's basically the same product, you're, it's literally the same like ingredients and everything, but I wanna buy Cheerios cause it's the main brand. I'm familiar with that brand, you know?

• 1:23:40Graham Stephan?

  And since a lot of these stores though are independently owned. How do you feel for the people who are not involved in this at all? Who've just operated honestly? Hey, by the way, really quick, if you want extra content just like this, as well as early access and a bonus post show posted every single week, including an extra conversation with Ben, that's almost an extra hour long, feel free to join as a channel member to get immediate access to all of that, as well as early access to everything else that we post, along with priority responses to all of your comments. So if that sounds cool, feel free to join, would love to have you on board. Thanks so much. We'll get back to the podcast now. How do you feel for the people who are not involved in this at all? Who've just operated honestly?

• 1:24:25Jack Selby?

  Yeah, it sucks because they did nothing wrong and corporate making the decisions they've made is what's screwing them over. And so that's why, yeah, with the rest of the GoFundMe money, we're trying to get them all lawyers so they can sue Bricks and Minifigs for basically like, hey, you guys, like, we paid you money to have a good brand name and you're destroying the brand name. So can we like sue them so we can like change our name?

• 1:24:48Graham Stephan?

  But let's just say Bricks and Minifigs doesn't have any money to pay out and all these franchise owners get together, they're going to be throwing, basically just burning money into a black hole because there's nothing to collect.

• 1:25:01Jack Selby?

  Yeah, what I think they want right now is not necessarily money because they've experienced like two weeks of like no sales, which at the end of the day isn't like that. It's bad, but it's not like, like closing down their store, but you know, so.

• 1:25:15Graham Stephan?

  It might be, depending on how some of these franchises are operating, because their expenses of employees or rent and utilities and there's a lot that goes on, my guess, behind the scenes where if they don't get business for probably one to three months, I'd bet a chunk of them.

• 1:25:31Jack Selby?

  Well, we're working right now to get them all lawyers so they can change their name from a Bricks and Minifigs to like their own like small business, you know, like their own Lego business, like you were saying, you know, and that way they can disassociate from the brand and they don't have a bad name anymore. And the whole time I've always been saying too, like, these are independent franchises, like they have nothing to do with what corporate says, like, yeah, they're paying corporate money, but. They got into this contract before, when they thought that bricks and minifigs was a reputable brand that doesn't steal from old people, you know, like they didn't sign this contract with saying like, oh, for the next 10 years, I'm going to give you like 6% of my royalties if they thought that they stole from old people, you know, so all that information came out after they signed the contract. Now they're locked in these contracts and they have no choice. They can't

• 1:26:15Jack Selby?

  talk bad about it or else they get their sources and their life savings gets taken. Now they can't provide for their family. And so it makes total sense like why these franchises did this. And I, so I've always been saying, yeah, like, don't go out and harass the franchises and everything. And like, it makes total sense. Like, they're not supporting this theft that happened. They're just trying to have their own local store, you know, like going and harassing this innocent store. There's nothing to help the problem. So who's the main bad actor in all of this? I think there's the McNeff family is the CEO who, well, I guess Brandon and Josh technically are the ones that got hired by bricks and minifigs. So they're all working together. It's, it's the McNeff family and Brandon and Josh. And they like to say that they're separate, that

• 1:26:59Jack Selby?

  they have no relation to each other. But we found out someone dug in newspapers from like the 1990s or something and Josh and the CEO actually went on a Mormon mission trip together. And when you're on a Mormon mission trip, like you have, you're not allowed to separate rooms for like three months or something, or like, or two years. I don't know how long Mormon mission trips are. But from what I've heard, you can't even shower because they're afraid you're like doing sinful things in the shower. So you have to shower with the door open. So there's no privacy when you're on your Mormon. So these guys are closer than any two human beings can be pretty much. And it's funny now they're saying like, oh, we're completely separate. Like we, we're not working to, you know, so it is kind of just like one entity of these people.

• 1:27:39Jack Selby?

  Like they're just this, so it's Brandon, Josh and the McNeffs. The McNeffs are the CEOs kind of that.

• 1:27:46Speaker 00

  Kind of hired Brandon and Josh to take over these stores illegally. And yeah, so I guess that's who it is.

• 1:27:55Graham Stephan?

  And then the police department as well.

• 1:27:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, there were some cool police officers.

• 1:28:00Graham Stephan?

  But then they lied. I mean, they changed the story like they have no goal of making things right. It's just protecting them.

• 1:28:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's hard to tell who the good police officers and bad police officers like there were definitely some good police officers who would like. In the body cam, you can see they're like pushing back. They're like, wait, we can't do that. It's illegal, you know? And and they're like fighting back for like us, you know, like behind the scenes, which you can see in the unredacted footage. But most of the police officers, I feel like kind of sucked. Yeah.

• 1:28:28Graham Stephan?

  Speaking of that, why did so much footage get redacted? And then how was some of it leaked?

• 1:28:33Speaker 00

  I don't know. I'm still trying to figure this out, but. So I was like pissed off when they just redacted everything and then it turns out that some of it. Was just them turning off their body cameras during the most important part. So even with the unredactions, they're still on. Like the most important parts, like right before I get like, they find out the court case is real. They turn off their body cam for like 10 minutes and then they arrest me. So it's like, what happened during those 10 minutes?

• 1:28:58Graham Stephan?

  Is that illegal to turn off your body cam?

• 1:29:01Speaker 00

  I don't know, maybe.

• 1:29:02Graham Stephan?

  It seems like it defeats the entire purpose if you could just turn it off.

• 1:29:06Speaker 00

  In Oregon, they don't even use body cams. So it's every state's different. Yeah, we could look that up. I don't know.

• 1:29:13Speaker 00

  But yeah, during all the key moments, they turn off the body cams. Same with the the heroin incident, like during all the key moments, they turn up the body. So even in the unredacted stuff, it's like, we still can't find out. But so all the stuff that got redacted, I kept arguing. I was calling with them for like two months, probably like every day like, hey, like, can we get this unredacted? And they're like, oh, no, it's protecting the victim. I'm like, but he's making claims about me like, don't if I'm being charged with these crimes. I don't have a right to know what I'm being charged for. And they're like, yeah, but if we tell you, then we'll. I actually showed up to court and I'm like, I don't even know I'm in court right now. Like you guys redacted all of the claims against me. Like, can you guys please tell me why I'm here? And then the prosecutor says, well, I'm hesitant to give him the footage.

• 1:29:57Speaker 00

  Because if we show him what he's being accused of, then he's going to use it for likes and clicks on his YouTube channel at the expense of our victim. And and it's going to hurt our victim if we tell him what he's being accused of. I'm like, well, then what am I doing here in court, you know? And like, okay, we'll schedule another court hearing.

• 1:30:10Graham Stephan?

  Why represent yourself though? Why don't get a lawyer on your behalf to maybe? argues some of these claims that are against.

• 1:30:17Speaker 00

  I don't know, because I think the whole point of the video was to show like, it's like standing up to the bully with no resources, you know, can the little guy stand up to the big guy? But if I get a lawyer, now it's the big guy standing up to the big guy. And there's no incentive for the little guy to, and so, I, I wanted to really show like, if we're creative, we, the little guy can stand up to the big guy, you know, like, that's the whole like theme of the video. And I think getting a lawyer involved would have defeated that purpose. Cause then people would write it off, they'd be like, oh, he only won because he has a lawyer, you know, not because he's right. Or not because he was creative, or not because he stood up for himself. He only won because someone, he had to hire someone to stand up for him, you know? And so I think it just completely defeated the message.

• 1:30:57Graham Stephan?

  Is there anything that they could offer you? To just say, all right, you know what, I'll shake hands, put this to rest and I move on.

• 1:31:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, I would love to move on. Um, I thought I was gonna move on a long time ago. I didn't think they would. I thought they were gonna do the right thing a long time ago. First, they have to look at like, give us the inventory, because they still haven't given us the inventory yet. That way we can see where the sets are, you know? Still haven't done that. Second thing, uh, probably like end the lawsuit against us because like, like that's just silence and criticism, you know, so like stop that, that sucks. Uh, well, I guess basically if they said they were sorry, they would end the lawsuit because by them doing the lawsuit, they're saying like, we want to silence you. Uh, the next thing would be, um,

• 1:31:43Speaker 00

  I think I want them to do the chicken dance. I think that would have them show they're sorry. I think that's something we said.

• 1:31:47Graham Stephan?

  Who does the chicken dance?

• 1:31:50Speaker 00

  I think all the bad people at Bricks and Minifigs that caused Brian harm and the American Fork Police. I think if they did the chicken dance, that would show that they're sorry and.

• 1:31:59Graham Stephan?

  What is it? What is the chicken dance?

• 1:32:01Speaker 00

  I don't know, uh, but I think you probably look up on YouTube, probably you go like this or something, you go like this. Clap your wings? Yeah, because we, we had it in the contract that they signed. So they signed, they have to do it already, but, um, uh, yeah, I think that would be like a good way to show them that, uh, they're wrong and they're sorry. I think that would, that would be proof that they're sorry for me. Yeah. Would you like them to be sent to jail? No, I don't think anyone deserves to go to jail, except for like maybe like, and like rapists and stuff. Well, it depends. Uh, I, I, I think, I think jail.

• 1:32:35Speaker 00

  I don't like jails like a punishment thing of like, oh, you did this bad thing. So now as punishment, you're gonna go to jail. I think that sucks. I think if anything, it just makes the problem worse because don't people that go to jail come out even like worse people, you know? So I think jail though is effective at holding someone back from doing something bad. There's a I kill people, right? By sending him to jail, you're gonna save people's lives, you know, because now he's not out in the streets like people. So if bricks and minifigs looks like they're gonna keep doing this to people and like keep stealing people's like life savings, how there's a pattern of them doing this to multiple franchises. Uh, if they're gonna keep this pattern of behavior without any sign of improvement, then jail might be a good way to keep them away from the public to keep screwing people over. You know what I mean? But I like if they've learned their lesson, they're like, hey,

• 1:33:20Speaker 00

  we actually want to become a good productive member of a society. Now we want to stop scamming people and we want to start helping people, then I think there's no reason for them to be in jail. You know, because like, I don't care about like revenge, you know? Um, I just, I don't know. I think jails or revenge thing is stupid, but as a way to like, keep them safe from harming other people, I think it can be effective, I guess. Can you find any sympathy within your heart for the bricks and minifigs executives? Right now, no, I've tried so many times. I, I, I guess if they're willing to talk to me, I'll, I'd still be down to talk with them. I think it'd be so funny. I, I, me and my friends always joke about this. How funny would it be if we both just get set up to like lie detectors, you know, and just have a like hour long conversation, like no cuts or edits, you know,

• 1:34:03Speaker 00

  we just sit down, like me and Ammon, both with lie detectors, and we just have a cover and just talk out the whole thing, you know? I think that would solve a lot of problems because then we know who, if we're lying or not, you know, and because every time I try to talk to him, he just lies and he's like, oh, we already sent the inventory list. Uh, we already reimbursed Brian. We already did all this stuff. And it's like, and so the conversation goes nowhere. But if we both had lie detector like tests on and we could talk to each other, it'd be a productive conversation, maybe. I don't know. But I think I, I, if he's down to willing to have a conversation with me, I'm still down to give him like a 30 second chance. You know, I think everyone deserves like a 30 second chance. And, um, yeah, but so far, every time I try and talk to him and like, hey, let's solve this. It's just, I'm calling the cops on you, you know, and like, if you want

• 1:34:47Speaker 00

  this back, you gotta sue me, but it's not gonna be worth it for you because then you're gonna lose even more money, you know? And that's why every conversation with me and him has been like, so.

• 1:34:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, so at this point, it's kind of like, oh, I've given you ever chance. Like, at this point, you've screwed yourself, you know? But I'm always willing to help him get out of his situation.

• 1:35:07Jack Selby?

  How do you predict this will all end?

• 1:35:09Speaker 00

  Shoot, I think he's gonna destroy his whole company. And I think, I think he's not gonna admit he's wrong. I think even, like, we'll keep saying, like, hey, we'll work with you, you know? And we'll try to make things right. He's not gonna accept it. He's gonna destroy his whole company. I think the franchises will all be forced to rebrand to something else. And hopefully survive this, I guess, is the goal. Cause now it's kind of getting to the point where it's like, okay, like, we've already destroyed corporate, like, how do we save the franchises now? And I think the only way to save the franchises is to have them rebrand to their own thing. But

• 1:35:43Jack Selby?

  What are the biggest lies being told about the story right now?

• 1:35:46Speaker 00

  I think the first one is that they tried, so Bricks and Minifigs' main narrative right now is, we tried to give Brian his Legos back. Brian just didn't want them back. Like, we tried to give him the inventory list and show all this, but he didn't want it. And in my third video, you can, I have that footage of them saying that. I think he said it on every single podcast he's been on, every single news station he's been on. He said it every public appearance he's been on so far, which is like, probably at least like six or seven at this point. That's the main narrative they're saying. And then in my video, it just cuts straight to their, like, email thread. And Brian's like, can I please have my stuff back? And they're like, like, like, we have no obligation to ever give you your Legos back. This matter's closed. And he's like, well, like, can I please have them back? They're like, nope, we're not giving them back to you. Like, you are not getting the Legos.

• 1:36:29Speaker 00

  And then they go on Fox News and they're like, we tried to give him his stuff back, but Brian was the one that didn't want it. It's like, well, like, obviously, like, I don't know. It's just, there's evidence, and then there's what Bricks and Minifigs is saying. The two things just don't match.

• 1:36:44Jack Selby?

  Is anyone believing Bricks and Minifigs?

• 1:36:46Speaker 01

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• 1:37:16Speaker 00

  No, because they have no, if they would provide evidence, then maybe people would believe them. But they can't because it's everything

• 1:37:22Jack Selby?

  So even on like the news stations and stuff, are they, is there any pushback? Or are they just like going with it?

• 1:37:26Speaker 00

  The news stations are kind of just going with it. They're kind of just like, uh huh. Okay. Like, if you say so, okay. Cause I, I think the news stations don't really know the story that well and they don't really, you know, they're kind of just trying to like hear his side, which is good for news stations to do, you know, cause if they push back

• 1:37:40Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:41Speaker 00

  And bricks and minifigs would be like, oh, they're pushing back. Okay. This is a hit piece on us. Let's not do anymore. So it's good what they're doing, you know, cause they're getting them to talk. So I'm, I'm all for it. Like they're not pushing back.

• 1:37:49Graham Stephan?

  How do you balance your videos with like escalating things? Cause it seems like sometimes you'll do something and it just escalates the situation instead of, you know, settles it, calms it down.

• 1:38:01Speaker 00

  I don't know. I always start with the calm thing and then I, I feel like you're right. I'm very strategic when it comes to, I think. So like first I went in very politely asked, I'm like, hey, one of my friends has his Legos in your store. It's like a big Star Wars collection. She's like, get out right now. So I always let them like ask.

• 1:38:21Graham Stephan?

  Was that your first interaction with her?

• 1:38:22Speaker 00

  Yeah. And then within literally 15 seconds, she's like, get out, I'm being harassed. You know, I'm like, well, I'm not like harassing you. I just politely asked, but it's like a game of chess, you know, like I'll take like a defensive, I'll let them make like a stupid move and then I'll make a stupid or, you know, and

• 1:38:37Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:37Speaker 00

  I, I try to like match their energy. So, uh, so I'll, I'll come in like calm and then if they, like I'll start in calm. If they bring up to here, then I'll match them here, you know? And if they bring up to here, I'll match them here. So I feel like I don't ever escalate something more than their, like I, I just try and like bring my side to match their side, you know? Cause otherwise they'll win, you know? So.

• 1:39:01Graham Stephan?

  What do you think is the most realistic outcome?

• 1:39:03Speaker 00

  I think, like I said, I, I really think bricks and minifigs is not going to apologize. I think the police department might apologize. I feel like they have more to lose, you know? I, I think, I think the police department might actually kind of like make things right. Cause it's like, I feel like, I don't know.

• 1:39:23Speaker 00

  I feel like the police might make things right, but I think the bricks and minifigs, I think they're so stubborn that they'll never admit they're wrong and they'll just destroy their company and all the franchises. We'll have to figure out a way to save them somehow.

• 1:39:36Graham Stephan?

  I'm also curious, because of the virality of this entire story, do you think in the future, when this is kind of wrapped up? Do you think that companies out there are just going to shut down as soon as they see you approaching?

• 1:39:49Speaker 00

  Well, they shouldn't because like, I feel like, it's like, I don't know.

• 1:39:55Graham Stephan?

  Is that going to make it harder for you? Because now a lot of people have seen your face and as soon as you walk in-

• 1:40:01Speaker 00

  It's not going to make it harder. No, it's going to be easier because now I have like more resources, more people behind me. If anything, it just makes it easier, but because I can always just like send someone in on my behalf, you know what I mean? Like it doesn't have to be me going in. I can just send someone else in that they don't recognize. So that's not a problem at all. But yeah, if they see me come in, just shut down. I don't know. That would be good, I guess, you know, because ultimately the goal, I always say like, like every single video shoot I've ever done, I always tell everyone involved, like our first priority is to have fun and make sure like we accomplish our goal. The second priority is to, uh, to get the foot at Geo and like to tell a cool story. But that's never the first priority. It's like what we said in Slack lining, like in Slack lining, I would always say,

• 1:40:44Speaker 00

  first priority is have fun. Second priority is look good doing it. And then third priority is be safe, you know? So that's like my checklist. So the first one is have fun, like, and part of having fun is like accomplish our goal, you know, it's like get the Legos back in this example. That's our first priority. Second priority is, okay, like, let's film this and like tell a cool story, you know, and make it good for the audience. And I guess the third priority then is be safe and don't get in trouble. But that's, I tell every single person we film with, there's three rules. I guess our priority checklist.

• 1:41:14Graham Stephan?

  What's your advice for other people who want to follow in your footsteps?

• 1:41:17Speaker 00

  Oh, that's a great question. I think my main piece of advice is, I'm not really like naturally talented at anything, but I just try really hard and I don't take no for an answer. So I think that's probably the best advice is, you know, I think a lot of people don't do things because they're like- Like, oh, well, I'm not as talented as him, or I'm not as good at like talking, or I'm not as creative as it, but it's like, I don't think I'm like naturally creative or anything, you know, it's just, I just try really, really, really hard and I don't stop until I accomplish my goal. So if that's your mentality, you're going to be successful, you know? And like all my friends that are successful and not successful, the only, I've never seen someone try really hard at something and not give up and not be successful.

• 1:42:01Speaker 00

  The only time people are not successful is when they end up giving up. So as long as you just want it bad enough, then you'll achieve whatever you want in life, you know? Like I sucked at balance. Like I remember my first time on a slackline, I was with 10 of my friends and I was the worst one in my friend group. And like out of every single person, I was naturally the least gifted person at slacklining. And then, but I just tried harder than all my friends and I actually ended up becoming like the best in America at slacklining. And now people see me and they're like, oh, I wish I was born with as good of balance as you. It's like, if only they knew that I was like, had the worst balance, you know, when I first started. So people will just write, they'll see someone who's talented and skillful and just write that off as, oh, they were born that way, you know?

• 1:42:44Speaker 00

  And when really it's like, no, the literally I was born not that way. I just tried harder than everyone else. And that's the only difference that separates me from other people is I just try harder.

• 1:42:53Graham Stephan?

  What's the most reckless thing you've done?

• 1:42:56Speaker 00

  Oh, shoot. Uh, we might have to censor this, but uh,

• 1:43:03Speaker 00

  that was exciting, but that has to be censored. We can't say that yet.

• 1:43:08Speaker 00

  Don't know how to talk about that, but that was fun.

• 1:43:11Graham Stephan?

  What's the most reckless thing you've done that you could talk about?

• 1:43:14Speaker 00

  I guess one that's on my Patreon right now, I had a 10 day standoff with the police. We were trying to turn this skyscraper into like the world's biggest like dick, I guess, like for an art piece. And we tried to turn a whole skyscraper into like a giant art piece. We had a 10 day standoff with like a hundred police officers. There was like two or three police helicopters at all times. Uh, we'd like hire people from crisis, like throw us in food and stuff. That was pretty crazy. It's funny because I did that right before the Lego video and I didn't get arrested on that. And then we did the other thing that I just told you about, which involves like the Secret Service and stuff. Didn't get arrested and then I do a video on Legos and I get arrested twice.

• 1:43:55Speaker 00

  So it's like, maybe serving papers to Josh, that's the most reckless thing I've ever done. That's the only time I've ever been arrested. So yeah, I shouldn't have. It was dangerous for me to serve them those court papers or maybe making the GoFundMe. That was pretty reckless, making that. It's the only time I've ever been in trouble.

• 1:44:07Jack Selby?

  You infiltrated Scientology.

• 1:44:09Speaker 00

  Oh, that was pretty crazy too, yeah.

• 1:44:11Jack Selby?

  What is like the, the conclusion?

• 1:44:13Speaker 00

  Forgot about that.

• 1:44:13Jack Selby?

  Overall thoughts of Scientology, their practices, like give us the, the general idea.

• 1:44:20Speaker 00

  So Scientology is interesting. I was living in my car at the time. So I was off the beach and into a car at this point. And, uh, I was, one of my friends lived right across Scientology. So I'd hang out with him at his house sometimes, like take a shower and stuff. And it's literally his house Scientology, like right across the street. And I'm like, what goes on inside there, you know? So I'm Googling it and like, basically all I could find is that people pay like millions of dollars to believe in an alien that a science fiction writer wrote about. And everyone's like, why do they believe in this? Like it's, it's obviously science fiction, you know, like, like fiction means not real, but they think it is real. Like, how does this make any sense? So the more I looked into it, just the more questions there were with no answers.

• 1:45:03Speaker 00

  I'm like, why has no one just gone in with like secret cameras and just filmed inside, you know? It was pissing me off that no one's thought to do this. Because I wanted to find, I'm like, I want to see the footage of what goes on inside, you know, like the harder I looked, I couldn't find it. So I was like, you know what? Um, I've never done a documentary. I was just a slackliner, just living on the beach at this point, you know? So I was like, you know what? I'm going to be the person to go in. Like I don't do documentaries, but I'm going to, sorry about the banging. I was like, I'm, I'm going to go in and be the first person to find out what actually goes on inside Scientology. I'm going to answer this question for all of us. And I did it. I posted online. It, I think it was like kind of viral, I guess. And. And I was just like this like surfer, extreme sports dude, just like taking down this like huge religion, I guess. And people liked it, I guess. I was like, I guess I'll just keep doing it. It's pretty cool, you know?

• 1:45:48Speaker 00

  I like solving mysteries and stuff that have never been solved. It's kind of like a fun thing for me. So I was like, maybe this will just be my genre, you know, just cause I was kind of getting to a point where every month I was going to the hospital for cycloning. Like I was just breaking a bone like every single month. So like, yeah, maybe this will be a good like change of careers for me, you know? Uh, I can like not have to like go to the hospital all the time.

• 1:46:07Graham Stephan?

  I'm curious if you could distill Scientology down to like one general conclusion or idea, what would it be?

• 1:46:15Speaker 00

  I think they've hijacked how the brain works. Uh, so our brains aren't really always the most logical. Like we only remember things the way we last remember them. Like our brains are like very flawed. And I think they take advantage of that and put like false memories in people's brains and stuff. And so that's how they can get people to believe in things that aren't true.

• 1:46:35Graham Stephan?

  How do you put false memories into someone's brain?

• 1:46:37Speaker 00

  So for me, what they did is they had me start with like a story that was true. And then they would have me keep repeating the story with, I had no breaks, no food breaks, no bathroom breaks for 10 hours. And I had to repeat this like three minute story over and over and over for 10 hours. And they would change the story like this much each time. So I'm sort of like, say it again, but like say it more like exaggerate this, you know? And so if you, if your brain repeats a lie enough, it's gonna think it's true because that's you just literally are rewiring your brain. Your brain's like a muscle. So you can rewire it, you know? And so you will literally believe that a lie is true in your brain if you say it enough times and.

• 1:47:16Graham Stephan?

  What if it's a positive lie? What if it's an improvement? Like they could make you think that you're like the most successful person in the world. You are talented at everything that you do and you walk out of it thinking, oh man, I got this amazing confidence. And then it spirals into.

• 1:47:30Speaker 00

  That's how they start. Yep. So they start with, uh, that's what they did to me. They, the story I told them was about my broken neck. So it was like, probably one of those like scary moments in my life. Cause I was. And then they turned it into a positive thing for me. And that's how they get you hooked. They're like, oh, my gosh, like I turned this negative memory into a positive memory. Like Scientology is the best, you know, and so that's what gets people hooked. But then they start to say, okay, like now our mission is to like defend the world from this Xenu alien, you know, and they start saying stuff like that, like basically if, if any of your friends or family don't believe in this Xenu alien that we have to defend from, then they're, they're on Xenu's side. And we have to like, you have to block them from your life. You can't talk to them. They're evil now, you know? And also you have to give us all your money. Like you saw what happened to the Braille skateboarding guy.

• 1:48:17Speaker 00

  No. Did you see it? Oh, he was, uh, this huge YouTube channel who basically Scientology took over his life. He had like viral employees. He had a warehouse just like this with like huge, like giant skate park. It was helping the community out. He had to sell it, give it all to Scientology to, to fight Xenu. It just destroyed his whole life, basically. So it starts out positive like that. You're right. And it's like, it's like doing heroin, you know, like maybe doing heroin gives you a good feeling, you know? When you first start, you're like, oh, this is great. Well, I should just always do heroin, you know? But then you can see it ruins your life, you know, if you like, no heroin addicts are gonna be happy that they did heroin. Even though the very initial stages of heroin might be positive, but then it just destroys your whole life. I totally forgot. We have like a standard content release. Oh, yeah, with, uh, this? Yeah.

• 1:49:02Speaker 00

  Oh, nice. Oh, no, I'm signing without reading it. You guys, oh, Jack. You just say I owe you $5,000 for every police officer called?

• 1:49:12Graham Stephan?

  Oh, probably the last thing here.

• 1:49:15Speaker 00

  You should, you should trick someone sometime and, and make him sign something like really weird. That would be a good idea. That'd be funny. Yeah.

• 1:49:23Graham Stephan?

  So the latest update, I just want to get your reaction on this and I'm going to read it to you. This is the bricks and mini figs requested I share this latest statement.

• 1:49:30Speaker 00

  Wait, really?

• 1:49:31Graham Stephan?

  So internet anarchist did a video.

• 1:49:33Speaker 00

  Oh, I haven't seen it yet.

• 1:49:35Graham Stephan?

  So you'll get your real reaction to this. This is their official statement. "We have worked diligently to resolve the Mansele collection issue. This is an isolated and unfortunate incident related to a single location and does not reflect the integrity of more than 300 other franchises."

• 1:49:53Speaker 00

  I agree with that, yeah.

• 1:49:54Graham Stephan?

  Okay. "Much of the reporting on the issue includes inaccurate information, most notably the collection's value, which is far less than the reported $200,000."

• 1:50:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, it could have been, I think they said the thing that was on the set was about 107,000, 120 at the most, plus maybe some more sets that weren't included on that list that Crystal didn't put on that inventory. So maybe it was around 150,000, but yeah, I guess that excuses it. They only stole 100 something thousand, not 200,000. They're good, yeah.

• 1:50:28Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 1:50:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, we can let them off for that.

• 1:50:31Graham Stephan?

  "At no point did we make any legal attempt to seize the Mansele family GoFundMe account, nor did..."

• 1:50:38Speaker 00

  I was on the phone with GoFundMe. GoFundMe told me they did.

• 1:50:42Graham Stephan?

  "nor did we ever approve consignments as an authorized sales process."

• 1:50:48Speaker 00

  Again, that's between Bricks and Minifigs and Crystal. That's not, that isn't an excuse for them to sell, steal Brian's stuff.

• 1:50:54Graham Stephan?

  "Following a thorough legal investigation of this matter, we have determined this location operated in contrast to corporate's procedures and expectations for franchisees. As a result, we have implemented three immediate changes across all of our locations, including more rigorous record-keeping and inventory management..."

• 1:51:13Speaker 00

  That'd be good.

• 1:51:14Graham Stephan?

  "...transparency in the buy, sell, and trade process, and comprehensive staff training on professional conduct and corporate protocols."

• 1:51:23Speaker 00

  My experience with Bricks and Minifigs is they say they're gonna do something and they don't do it. That's what the history shows. So I would be surprised if they are going to, but maybe, maybe now with all the public pressure, they will. It sounds like they're trying to do a good thing, according to that, but also... I mean, they said I could have the Legos back if I just walk in and I walk in and they call the cops on me. They said they would give me the inventory list if I email them. I email them and they say, if you email us one more time, we're gonna call the cops on you. So they always say they're gonna do things. So maybe I'll get proven wrong, but I think the world is skeptical right now, you know?

• 1:52:01Graham Stephan?

  We got this last sentence. "We remain committed to resolving this issue in a way that all parties can endorse."

• 1:52:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think, I think the world wants to see them follow through with what they're saying. I think they're saying the right things, you know? Except for the GoFundMe, they did try to take the GoFund.

• 1:52:17Graham Stephan?

  How do you know they tried to take the GoFund?

• 1:52:18Speaker 00

  Cause I called GoFundMe. They said, hey, we received this letter, like, we, we can't keep this up. I was on the phone with like some top people from GoFundMe and we were talking like all night and they were, they're like, hey, Bricks and Minifigs is gonna come after us if we keep this up. And they're like, they're sending us like the TRO and stuff, kinda like they did with the Patreon. They're probably also gonna say like, oh, we never tried to take Patreon down, then they do, like. Here's the thing about Bricks and Minifigs that we've realized is if they say something, 99% chance it's just not true. So, uh, that's kinda how we've been working. So if they say something, it's about, say about 98 to 99%, I think is what, probably about I'd say is an accurate,

• 1:53:02Speaker 00

  thing of like what they say is not true. So, um, yeah, so it's just, I would love for them to follow through with what they're saying, cause they are saying, a lot of times they do say the right things. They just don't, actions speak louder than words, you know? And I think that's why they're getting so much hate right now is because they say, they always say the right thing, and then they do the wrong thing. So, uh, we would love to see them do the, do the right thing instead of just say the right thing. I would, if they do the right thing, I will give them credit for it, you know? I will be like, hey, Bricks and Minifigs finally did the right thing. Let's, like, applaud them for this. I would be happy to do that, but.

• 1:53:35Graham Stephan?

  It seems very easy. All it would take is just about a hundred grand to make it all go away.

• 1:53:40Speaker 00

  I think possibly less, because he's already been paid for some. Maybe Crystal stole something, you know? Like, we're not, we're not asking for Bricks and Minifigs to pay for maybe what Crystal underpaid him, you know? So if Crystal did take some, they would owe him less than a hundred grand, you know? So. Uh, I, I think they only need to pay him what they owe him and uh, but they won't do that for whatever reason. But I don't think they need to pay him more than what they owe him, just uh, what they like, just the sets that they still have of his, you know?

• 1:54:07Graham Stephan?

  And they have to do the chicken dance.

• 1:54:09Speaker 00

  And the chicken dance, yeah. Cause at first they wouldn't have to do the chicken dance, but because they brought it on this long and because they've done this much harm to us, I guess, and Brian, I think the chicken dance is now a good measure, you know, like I, I don't think like sending someone to jail is really like, I, I would feel bad honestly if I sent someone to jail for like punitive reasons. Uh, if you're like a danger to society, then you can go to jail, but as long as they are like, okay, we're improving, we're not a danger to society anymore. Then I think the chicken dance would be a fair.

• 1:54:38Graham Stephan?

  You're not asking for much.

• 1:54:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:54:39Graham Stephan?

  I mean, it seems pretty reasonable. What do you think the percentage likelihood is that you somehow end up in jail?

• 1:54:45Speaker 00

  I don't, I don't think it would happen. I think the internet.

• 1:54:48Graham Stephan?

  Under, under a half a percent, like it's so small.

• 1:54:52Speaker 00

  I think, I mean, they're, they're trying as hard, if you ask Brooks and Minifigs, I think they would say probably like 70 to 80%. Uh, cause they're confident they're sending me to jail, but for me, like, I mean, I film everything, so everything they're accusing me of, I didn't do. Like, you know, like they're saying I made all the, like, the main reason they're trying to send me to jail right now is for making all these like death threats and stuff against them and like trying to burn the place down and stuff. And it's like, I, you can go through, you can have my whole hard drive, but I didn't do anything, you know?

• 1:55:21Speaker 00

  Like I, I've already submitted most of the footage to the police already. So the police already know like what really went on, you know?

• 1:55:27Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. So through this all, what is the main lesson that you've learned?

• 1:55:30Speaker 00

  Ooh, I, I think the power of the internet is kind of underrated. Uh, like, because you can, um, I, I think a lot of people are like, oh, I'm scared that I'm like to do the right thing because.

• 1:55:49Speaker 00

  Like, maybe I'll get sued and stuff, you know, but like, if you have the power of like, public support behind you, it's kind of one of those powerful things in the world, you know, like, it, we're kind of doing what to this corporation, what they were doing to Brian, in a sense, you know, like, oh, we're gonna win because we have more power than you. And now with the power, the internet's kind of doing that to this company, which is crazy that the internet has that much power now. But I guess it really speaks links to how powerful the internet is.

• 1:56:15Jack Selby?

  And what would your advice be to the average viewer watching this right now?

• 1:56:19Speaker 00

  First off, don't harass the stores. Like, we're actually trying to help the stores right now because they are suffering because of something that's not their fault. So they're kind of in the same situation Brian was in, you know? Brian was suffering for something that corporate bricks and minifigs was doing, something that wasn't his fault. And it's now all the stores are kind of in the same situation. So harassing the stores would be kind of like joining bricks and minifigs' side, right? Because the stores are, or bricks and minifigs corporate is hurting these franchises. And now if you're also going in harassing these franchises, you're just teaming up with corporate bricks and minifigs, which makes you the bad guy. So I'd say, first off, don't do that. I want to help these franchises, not hurt them, you know? I think they're innocent and we need to do whatever we can

• 1:57:01Speaker 00

  to help them. That's probably my number one message right now.

• 1:57:05Jack Selby?

  What about any message outside of the whole bricks and minifigs thing? Just something about life in general?

• 1:57:12Speaker 00

  I'd say, go out and do whatever is like, fun for you. And I think, like, I'd say,

• 1:57:21Speaker 00

  if you want to improve your life, probably just sit down and think like, what truly makes me happy? You know, like, for me, it's like helping people and like, having fun adventures with my friends. So that's what I do with this Lego thing, you know, I'm like, I get to help someone and I get to have fun adventures with my friends and we get to experiment and do cool things. And so I'm like, that's what makes me happy, so I'm gonna go out and do it, you know? And I think if you truly do what makes you happy, then life will reward you. And now I'm finally seeing monetary benefits for it too. So I think this is the best way to live life, I think, is find out what makes you happy and then see if you can make money doing it.

• 1:57:52Jack Selby?

  And we'll also just let you know. Like however much it is that you owe us. So if you could just send that via wire, that'd be great.

• 1:57:59Speaker 00

  I should have read it. No, I was joking about it. What's it say? Oh no, I sent it being recorded. Is there a funny thing? What's it say? Every time I say yes, yeah, or nope.

• 1:58:11Speaker 00

  Five thousand. Ah, you got me. Well, it's a legal contract, so I guess I gotta do it. It's the, what's it called? The, um.

• 1:58:23Speaker 00

  Duty to read contracts law. I have a, I have a.

• 1:58:27Jack Selby?

  Like Nathan Fielder.

• 1:58:28Speaker 00

  I have a duty to read contracts. I didn't read. I had to read it.

• 1:58:32Jack Selby?

  Every time I say yes, yeah, no, or nope, I owe the Iced Coffee Hour $5,000 per occurrence. Each individual instance is billed separately and the amounts are cumulative. I understand that compensation, if any, for my appearance will be discussed separately and is not guaranteed by this agreement. Nods, head shakes, mhm, yep, and nah, count two at production's discretion. So it's, and we'll count everything.

• 1:58:55Graham Stephan?

  We could easily just settle for an amount now.

• 1:58:57Speaker 00

  Roll the clip, see how many times I said it.

• 1:58:57Jack Selby?

  There is no limit and no refund, and there is no one that didn't count. So.

• 1:59:03Speaker 00

  Duty to read contracts law. Damn, I should have read the con- I have a duty to read and I didn't read it.

• 1:59:07Jack Selby?

  Read your contracts. Unless it's like 30 pages, because that's just, that's just way too much time. But if it's like a short contract, I mean, you have no excuse, no reason. You see how short this is?

• 1:59:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:59:16Graham Stephan?

  They didn't even want to like glance.

• 1:59:18Speaker 00

  I think I made that joke while we were.

• 1:59:20Jack Selby?

  You were like, you're like, ah, look at me not reading a contract.

• 1:59:23Speaker 00

  Oh no, I'm signing without reading it. You guys, you just say I owe you $5,000 for every police officer called?

• 1:59:31Graham Stephan?

  Oh, I thought for sure you're gonna be like, wait a second, let me read the contract.

• 1:59:35Jack Selby?

  All right. Well, there you go, guys. We're gonna, we're gonna frame this and put it up. Thank you guys so much for watching. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It was a really enjoyable episode. I think what you're doing is extremely noble. And one thing I like is that it does not seem like it's your goal to take corporations down. Like, your goal is to not take a company down. It's to make something that's not right, right? By whatever means that is. Like, you went and actually tried to get information from the company. Like, you tried to.

• 2:00:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:00:01Jack Selby?

  You gave them the honor or like, you seek justice.

• 2:00:05Speaker 00

  Well, I don't really want to take them down. I just want to see them do the chicken dance. I think that would be, that would be a. A win for me, you know?

• 2:00:13Jack Selby?

  They're probably listening to this.

• 2:00:15Graham Stephan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:00:15Jack Selby?

  Their lawyers are for sure.

• 2:00:17Speaker 00

  My advice, my advice would be, I would say, do the chicken dance. It's why the lawyers are probably gonna be meeting with them right now, like.

• 2:00:24Jack Selby?

  So they said.

• 2:00:25Speaker 00

  All you have to do is do the chicken dance.

• 2:00:27Jack Selby?

  Do the chicken dance.

• 2:00:28Speaker 00

  And we can get business back on track again.

• 2:00:30Graham Stephan?

  You know what, it would be an easy thing to do. The problem is that it sets a legal precedent that if they admit to any wrongdoing here, it could open them up to liability elsewhere.

• 2:00:39Jack Selby?

  Well, just, just reach out and, and you guys can come to an actual like contractually binding agreement. That involves a chicken dance. And that is so much easier because realistically, from the way you're speaking, it really does. And the way that the court of public opinion, it sounds like you guys are gonna go bankrupt.

• 2:00:54Graham Stephan?

  But, but the thing is, all you need is mediation. It's just getting in a room with you and just talking for a few hours.

• 2:01:00Jack Selby?

  Could the chicken dance be in private? Could you, could it be in private, just in front of you?

• 2:01:04Graham Stephan?

  Mediation.

• 2:01:05Jack Selby?

  No, no, I'm saying the chicken dance, though. Or does it need to be posted?

• 2:01:07Speaker 00

  Oh, we can always negotiate the.

• 2:01:11Jack Selby?

  Like, if it's just you and them and they're just like.

• 2:01:13Speaker 00

  Private.

• 2:01:13Jack Selby?

  Yeah, they're, yeah.

• 2:01:14Graham Stephan?

  And just a lawyer in the corner in a chair, just like taking notes.

• 2:01:17Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:18Speaker 00

  That's like a creep of like, oh, this is like for my personal entertainment. That's weird.

• 2:01:22Jack Selby?

  I think that's, I think that's the sign to call it. Guys, thank you so much for watching.

• 2:01:26Graham Stephan?

  Thank you.

• 2:01:27Jack Selby?

  Really means a lot. Shout out to the members, if you guys wanna see the uncensored version.

• 2:01:30Graham Stephan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:01:30Jack Selby?

  We will still censor the things you requested us to.

• 2:01:32Graham Stephan?

  And by the way.

• 2:01:33Speaker 00

  Nice. You can post it later, once I post the videos.

• 2:01:34Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:35Speaker 00

  I'm still undercover. Someone's gonna contact them if we, like, I'm still undercover, I guess, so.

• 2:01:41Graham Stephan?

  There's a lot of bonus content for all the members out there. You get full access to this podcast and there's a lot you'd probably wanna hear. So we recommend joining the membership and you also get access to our next episode before it goes live. So if you want early access to all of our episodes, join the membership. It really helps out tremendously. We'll also link to your GoFundMe. Down below in the description. Does that open us up to liability?

• 2:02:07Jack Selby?

  No, I'm sure it's fine.

• 2:02:08Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 2:02:08Jack Selby?

  And if we get sued, can we use some of that?

• 2:02:10Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 2:02:10Speaker 00

  Fun, yeah.

• 2:02:11Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, great.

• 2:02:12Jack Selby?

  For sure. So if we get sued by bricks and many figs, then we have.

• 2:02:14Speaker 00

  That's what they go fund me money for. So anyone bricks and many figs sues, we're gonna try to equal it up as equal as we can and try and get everyone lawyers.

• 2:02:22Jack Selby?

  Guys, thank you so much for watching.

• 2:02:23Graham Stephan?

  Really appreciate it.

• 2:02:24Jack Selby?

  Much. Till next time.

• 2:02:25Graham Stephan?

  See ya.

• 2:02:36Speaker 01

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, theHouseMajorityPact.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.