Anson Frericks: Bud Light’s Fall & Comeback Attempt, Zyn’s DEI Agenda, & Why Big Business Hates You

Former Anheuser-Busch executive Anson Frericks watched as Bud Light committed suicide by woke white lady. It’s a gruesome story. Anson is the author of "Last Call for Bud Light: The Fall and Future of America's Favorite Beer." (00:00) The Fall of Anheuser-Busch (02:20) The Evils of Stakeholder Capitalism (10:42) How Covid and George Floyd Changed the Business World Forever (15:40) How Obama Destroyed the Middle Class and Made the Rich Richer (19:19) Zyn’s DEI and LGBTQ Agenda (29:14) The Companies You’re Giving Money to Hate You (35:55) The Pronoun Police Paid partnerships with: MeriwetherFarms: Visit https://MeriwetherFarms.com/Tucker and use code TUCKER2025 for 10% off your first order. Heritage Foundation: https://Heritage.org/Tucker PreBorn: To donate please dial pound two-fifty and say keyword "BABY" or visit https://preborn.com/TUCKER Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tucker Carlson?

  So what happened to Anheuser-Busch? Like, what is it? If you don't mind, since you've thought about this probably more than any living person, how exactly did a company, an American company like that, that you felt like had a sense of the country that it served?

• 0:18Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 0:19Tucker Carlson?

  Go off in a direction that was so obviously crazy and self-destructive? Like, how could that happen?

• 0:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, Tucker, there's a short story to it and there's a long story. I mean, I'll give you the short version and we can get into the longer version of what happened.

• 0:51Tucker Carlson?

  Great.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  But, you know, I mean, the short version is it used to be a great American, you know, company. This was owned by the Bush family. The Bush family had started this thing in the 1850s. You know, this is the same time you had the Carnegie's, the Vanderbilts, the Rockefellers. You didn't have any of those folks still in the, I don't know, 20 years ago, but the Bush family was actually still running Anheuser-Busch 20 years ago.

• 1:07Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:07Speaker 01

  Which is crazy. I think they actually have houses right around here, as a matter of fact.

• 1:11Tucker Carlson?

  I know them.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, you probably know them well. And so the short story is-

• 1:14Tucker Carlson?

  Very nice people.

• 1:14Speaker 01

  Very nice people.

• 1:15Tucker Carlson?

  Not everyone in the family, but some of the people-

• 1:17Speaker 01

  It's a big family.

• 1:18Tucker Carlson?

  One of the former presidents, great man.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a, it's a big family. So, and, and, long story short, I mean, the company got so big and at some point it owned SeaWorld, it owned Busch Gardens, it owned eight helicopters, 10 private jets. It got a little bit bloated. So it got taken over by this Belgian company, European company called Inbev. Inbev came in and bought it in 2008. And the culture's really changed, whereas Anheuser-Busch was all about growing the brands, understood the US consumer, Budweiser, Bud Light, all these things. Inbev had a different mentality. They were much more of a, they called the world's largest private equity from the happen to sell beer. A lot of cost cutting that went on, brought a lot of European people into the United States, changed the headquarters from St. Louis, Missouri, which is almost the geographical center of the, of the country.

• 1:57Tucker Carlson?

  And a wonderful town.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  Wonderful town. And they moved it to New York City. And then when they moved it to New York City-

• 2:01Tucker Carlson?

  Not a wonderful town.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  Very, very different town, different mentality. And then all of a sudden, they had bought a bunch of different beer companies. After buying Anheuser-Busch, they got, bought Group Modello. CB Miller took on too much debt. All of a sudden, the company in 2017, 2020.

• 2:13Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, you're saying a private equity firm took on too much debt?

• 2:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, it wouldn't be the first time. So, you know, never happened before, right? Never happened before. And I think the bigger problem was is that in 2018, 19, for a bunch of different reasons, the company to try and grow, they adopted a lot of the ESG, DEI philosophies that we've heard a lot about. Stakeholder capitalism, which is this European concept that businesses are supposed to serve all types of purposes, that pops up. And then two or three years later, all of a sudden, the company has really changed. It changed from sort of a great American company based in the Midwest, based off meritocracy values. And then all of a sudden, in the, you know, kind of post-COVID, post-George Floyd era, Anheuser-Busch, they start moving away from being a meritocracy, moving more towards diversity, equity, inclusion, moving more towards getting more involved in political issues. And, you know, unfortunately, with what happened with Dylan Mulvaney and Bud Light,

• 3:01Speaker 01

  that was the product of maybe 10 years of mistakes the company had made. And now all of a sudden, you have a company that's lost 50% of its sales of the biggest beer in America, Bud Light, and they still haven't turned it around. So that's the short story. Now, we can get into the longer story about maybe more broadly what happened.

• 3:14Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so, I mean, you're describing so many American companies, by the way.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:19Tucker Carlson?

  That that trajectory downward. But at the end of the story, there was this revealing moment where Anheuser-Busch executives, or one of them, basically just admitted, I hate our consumers. And you wonder, like, where does that mindset? I mean, people have all kinds of dumb ideas about business and dumb ideas about everything else. But if you're in the retail business, if you're selling products to consumers, and you find yourself in a place where you're like, let's piss them off and humiliate them. Like, that's so obviously insane. Like, how could that? How could anybody say something like that?

• 3:53Speaker 01

  No, totally insane. And I think, like, let's back up. Because, I mean, really, I think this story starts almost 40 years beforehand, where you really are starting to talk about what is the purpose of a corporation? Like, what are businesses in the business of doing? And in the United States, in the 1970s, you had this sort of this view of Milton Friedman. Milton Friedman, famous economist, said the purpose of a corporation was to serve its shareholders, the people actually own the business. How do you do that? Well, you focus on your customers, focus on creating great products and services. When you do that, you create, generate more revenue. You can hire more people and business continue to grow and do all the great things businesses do. There was this other philosophy that was more this European view of the world that says the purpose of a corporation serve all stakeholders. That was started by Klaus Schwab. This is the World Economic Forum, Davos type of elite, that over in Europe.

• 4:36Tucker Carlson?

  What's a stakeholder?

• 4:37Speaker 01

  So that's the problem. There are thousands of stakeholders. It's almost the idea of like, when you have this shareholder capitalist model that Milton Friedman says, you must have like one god. The god is the shareholder. That's who you have to take a look at. But this stakeholder capitalist model, you have thousands of gods. Those can be activists, government employees, they can be suppliers, they can be employee, they can be, they can be social activism, you name it. There's thousands of them.

• 5:01Tucker Carlson?

  People who have nothing to do with your company.

• 5:02Speaker 01

  That has nothing to do with the company. But you're supposed to be in the business of maximizing value for all so-called stakeholders, for the greater good of society. Sounds very European socialism. And that's effectively what it was. And both of these systems, they purported to do the same thing 40 years ago. They said, we're going to make people more money and lead to better societal outcomes. Problem is over the last 40 years, I mean, if you just take a look at sort of the, the US economic model versus Europe since the 1970s, US has trounced Europe on both of those premises. If you take a look at our stock market returns in the US, taking S and P 500 over the last 40 years, we've generated 10% a year on average. Europe broad-based indices are like 6 to 7%. But then in perspective, you had $100,000 invested in the US in 1970 and $100,000 in Europe. And the US would be

• 5:46Speaker 01

  worth $4.5 million today. It'd be worth $1.5 million in Europe. So that's a huge difference based on the time, the compounding interest of money. And then separately, if you take a look at the US, you know, Europe might say, okay, well, we didn't make as much money, but do we lead to better societal outcomes? And I would say, no. I mean, if you take a look at the US, almost every broad-based prosperity metric, GDP growth, per capita income, interest rates, unemployment rates, the US trounces Europe on all of those. I mean, like, our poorest countries in the United States are generally wealthier than most of the European countries on a per capita basis. And so over the last sort of 40 years, you kind of had these two systems that were developing and the US model to me is just the superior model. I mean, I believe in American exceptionalism. I think our American model works. The problem is with the American models, every once in a while, there are kind of bumps in the system, bumps in the

• 6:30Speaker 01

  road. And the last time we had kind of a real economic bump in the road, let's call it was 2008, 2009. Yeah, it's sort of the great financial crisis that happens. And after the great financial crisis, there are sort of a lot of people that were upset that banks got bailed out. It seemed like Main Street was the one that sort of that lost out. People lost houses. And so all of a sudden, business and capitalism kind of has to repair itself and repair its image. And the way that it did that is especially if you remember the Occupy Wall Street movement, you know, Occupy Wall Street and everyone else says, okay, well, banks and financiers and companies, they need to be a bigger part of the system and making sure that everybody can succeed. At the same time, then you had Obama was the president and he came up with some diversity, equity, inclusion mandates

• 7:12Speaker 01

  that were happening within sort of the broader base government. And for the next three or four, five years, you see a lot of companies that are trying to repair the image of so-called business and capitalism in the United States. McKinsey came out with a favorite famous study that says diversity wins, where they said, we're going to have, let's force sort of diversity initiatives on a lot of companies and those ones will do better. This study's been thoroughly debunked. You had a lot of asset management companies, the BlackRock, State Streets, Vanguard's of the world. They started really talking more about environmental social governance issues, which is a term that was coined in 2005, really never went anywhere. The United Nations originally coined it. You know, if the United Nations coins something, usually, you know, they should be skeptical of it. Didn't go anywhere for, for the first five or 10 years. But after the Occupy Wall Street movement, a

• 7:57Speaker 01

  lot of big asset managers kind of picked up this term, started talking about environmental social governance issues. And really, a lot of these issues picked up tons of steam when Trump was first elected. And when Trump was first elected and he pulled out of these supranational organizations, the Paris Climate Accords, pulled out of the human rights sort of campaign coalitions. All of a sudden, a lot of these more progressive institutions that said, wait a minute, like, we thought government was going to solve these existential crises of, you know, climate change and banking systems and systemic racism. And you kind of name it. Now all of a sudden they're not, and we need business to do this. And by the way, a lot of progressive pension funds, state of California, state of New York, European sovereign wealth funds like Norway and others, they have collectively trillions of dollars of assets.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  And they said, okay, now if these, a lot of these banks that had all of a sudden started talking more about environmental, social governance issues, we're going to manage money on our behalf. We wanted them to solve a lot of the existential crises in this country that Trump was not going to do in 2016. And at that time period, you had a really interesting thing that happened. We've met with BlackRock.

• 9:01Tucker Carlson?

  Quite.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, the largest asset management company in the world, manages about over $10 trillion worth of capital. And what was interesting is BlackRock was really one of the leaders of this movement, along with State Street, Vanguard, those three largest asset managers in this entire country, managed about $20 trillion worth of assets. They're the single largest shareholder in 95% of the S and P 500. And they wield a lot of influence in terms of telling companies kind of what to do. And the problem with a lot of these big asset managers is that it's not their own money that they're managing. You know, this is like George Soros type money, or you know, Bill Gates, like it's their own money and they, you know, ask companies to do all types of crazy things. But the problem was with BlackRock, State Street and Vanguard is they were managing, I mean, a lot of times like your money, my money through 401ks or pension funds or others.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  And because of their largest sort of clients, which again, more the progressive pension funds and others, are telling them that they want business to get more involved in politics and social issues, then all of a sudden they're starting to force a new agenda on corporations. Telling companies that we want you guys to get more involved in environmental, social and governance issues. And they even changed the purpose of a corporation in the 2018, 2019 time period. There was a famous letter that Larry Fink, the CEO of BlackRock, wrote in 2018, essentially telling companies that we want them to now earn their social license. And you're going to do that because we have evolved the purpose of a corporation with a group known as the Business Roundtable in the United States

• 10:23Speaker 01

  to be more focused on your stakeholders. So you're no longer focused on shareholders, we want you to focus on stakeholders. And that is now who you are now going to focus on for maximizing value without defining, again, who those stakeholders are. And so this becomes very, very problematic in this sort of 2018, 2019 timeframe because companies are frankly confused. And it set up really a lot of, I'll call it kindling for an event that happened in 2020, which was COVID. And all of a sudden, companies are being told they need to earn their social license. They're being told that now no longer your shareholders, your kind of primary person that you're serving, but you're now serving all stakeholders without defining what that is. And in the 2020 time period, now all

• 11:04Speaker 01

  of a sudden, you have this event of COVID. And when COVID happens, music, this crazy time period, we need to go through all of it. But companies frankly, like, lost their sense of direction about who were they're serving, what their mission is. And you remember, we all had to flatten the curve and, you know, the so-called flatten the curve in early 2020. And companies were essentially-

• 11:22Tucker Carlson?

  Except for the George Floyd rioters who were under no such obligation, I noticed.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  Correct. But that, you know, that's obviously after the, after this. But, you know, in, in March of 2020, I mean, almost every company lost what its mission was. What do I mean by that? Well, let's, let's go back to what, at Anheuser-Busch, we were making hand sanitizer in 2020, all of a sudden, because we need to flatten this curve and we were all in this existential crisis of COVID. You had Delta Airlines, no longer flying passengers, but now flying medical supplies all around. You had General Motors, which is now making ventilators for, for the country. Walmart, setting up COVID testing facilities. So all of these companies, all of a sudden, were told to focus on a lot of different initiatives besides just their typical products and services. And frankly, like, a lot of these efforts, like, you think about, like, the curve was flattened very quickly. You know, there was no big real existential crisis like we thought there was. But the problem was that since

• 12:10Speaker 01

  all these companies had kind of been pushed off their mission, then we had this next issue, which was the George Floyd issue, that pops up in May of 2020. And, you know, George Floyd, you know, George Floyd dies. And now the next existential crisis that every single company in the United States is looking to solve is systemic racism. Because their largest so-called shareholders in the BlackRock State Streets vanguards of the world, who had told them that now we want you focused on solving more of these stakeholder and societal issues, we need you to now solve these issues. I mean, you went down the list. I mean, it was crazy. After George Floyd was, was murdered, you had- Different companies in the United States here donated over $200 billion to Black Lives Matter in the United States. That's like more than the GDP of Portugal, which is crazy in terms

• 12:55Speaker 01

  of the amount of money that was donated to these causes. And banking donations just wasn't enough. I mean, even Zuckerberg and Facebook at the time donated some eight-figure sum to it. But then when that summer, Trump had the famous tweet about when the looting starts, the shooting starts, then everybody wanted him to now, all of a sudden, take Trump off of Facebook. Because it just wasn't enough just to donate. You actually had to silence folks as well. On top of that, in 2020, 2020, 2021, you had the BlackRock and states who's vanguards the world as well. Not only are they, this is where the big problem comes in, is because they are controlled, the largest percentage of companies in the United States, they have disproportionate

• 13:36Speaker 01

  power to advocate for policies at companies. And then, most importantly, to vote for shareholder proposals at companies, where if you own $25,000 of stock in any company in the United States, you can put up what's known as a shareholder proposal, that the so-called shareholders of the company, they can vote on. And what was crazy is that in 2020, 2021, you had a lot of these activists that because the purpose of this corporation had changed in the United States, away from shareholder value to this European stakeholder model, said, okay, now businesses, again, they have to maximize value for me. So you saw, there's a group called Color of Change, and they're, it's a nonprofit group, and their mission is to stamp out systemic racism in the country. You know, okay, fine. Like,

• 14:20Speaker 01

  you know, you can do that, you're whatever. But like, they went to Apple, they bought $25,000 worth of shares at Apple, and they put up this shareholder proposal that said, hey, you, Apple, we want you guys to do a racial equity audit, to figure out how you've contributed to systemic racism and white supremacy in the country. And Apple, which is, you know, pretty liberal leftist board, you know, company, Tim Cook is the CEO and very liberal board, they said, guys, like, thanks, but no thanks. Because Apple's mission is to make magical devices at unbelievable prices. Like, that's what we just do. You know, that's our thing. Like, these are important issues, but we're going to recommend against this proposal, because we don't want to spend tens of millions of dollars hiding- Hiring Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch to go and do a racial equity audit. But this passed by 52 to 48% because you had firms like BlackRock,

• 15:05Speaker 01

  which is the second largest shareholder of the company, voted for it. Vanguard, State Street, everyone else are voting for these issues, enforcing corporate America to now get involved in social and political issues. And this went the same thing for election integrity law issues that people were asking companies to get involved in, defund the police initiatives, help PETA, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. They put up a proposal telling Starbucks, we don't use cow milk anymore because we don't think you should use cow milk at Starbucks. I mean, it's crazy. All these proposals that popped up in this post, in this post sort of COVID George Floyd era. And companies were essentially forced by these large asset managers to get involved in a lot of political and social issues. So that was sort of the backdrop.

• 15:41Tucker Carlson?

  So can I just give you my theory on this?

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:44Tucker Carlson?

  Here, there's a, there's a backdrop to all of this.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:48Tucker Carlson?

  Which is the movement of, you know, the economic center of gravity upward in the United States. So Obama becomes president in 2008. Middle class is the majority in the United States. He leaves in 2016, the middle class is no longer the majority for the first time maybe ever. And at the same time, we've got free money, we're down to zero interest rates. And that money is being pumped way disproportionately into a certain sector of the economy, the banking sector. And so basically, most people are getting poorer, but a small number of people are getting way richer. I mean, it's measurable. I live among them. Everyone's got a plane now. That was not true in 2008. There's just created a lot of wealth. The Fed created a lot of wealth.

• 16:31Tucker Carlson?

  And so in a certain sense, that's like immoral, or it's certainly hard to defend. And so rather than defend it, it wasn't the companies that wanted this stuff. It was the debt holders. It was the finance people who wanted it because it was a cover for what they were doing, which is getting really rich. Larry Fink got super, super rich.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:47Tucker Carlson?

  A lot of like manufacturing concerns, family businesses went under or did not get rich at the same scale. And so you just like throw out like race war. You know, hate people because of their, you know, whatever immutable characteristics. Hey, let's throw the trans stuff in there, too. By the way, we're all gonna die from global warming. You basically just freak everybody out, throw the entire society off balance so they don't notice the looting.

• 17:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that's essentially, I mean-

• 17:13Tucker Carlson?

  That's my view.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  But it is, it's all about, it's control and money. I mean, it's control and it's money. I mean, you think about-

• 17:18Tucker Carlson?

  But all these social issues were always a cover for what was actually going on, which is like Larry Fink getting richer.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. And it's so, it's so funny. So when he started talking a lot about ESG, environmental, social governments in 2018, 2019, all of a sudden, they started a scoring system. You know, it's almost like a social credit system they'd have in China or somewhere else. Scoring companies on how little carbon that they use. They're scoring companies on how, did they do gender affirmation care for their, for their employees? And these scores were used to essentially, you know, pick and choose companies that could be included in indices that Larry Fink and BlackRock and others, they could charge investors three to four times the amount of money for these ESG funds versus the regular funds. And the funny thing was, these ESG funds underperformed their broad-based counterparts. So you ended up paid less money, but you were charged more for doing it, which is, which is crazy.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  And, you know, it's really funny that-

• 18:09Tucker Carlson?

  So do you think it would, since you've studied this much more than I have, do you think it would be a mistake to think that there was any sincerity behind this? Like, do you think there was ever a moment where, like Larry Fink, or for that matter, Tim Cook, or anybody at State Street or Vanguard thought, you know, we're gonna solve systemic racism by attacking the white working class? Like, we're actually gonna solve this problem? Do you think they really thought that?

• 18:29Speaker 01

  I mean, there might have been one or two people there. They're just, you know, totally, but no, I mean, I don't really think. I think this was all just sort of a money grab and a feel-good and being able to go to the right parties in New York City.

• 18:38Tucker Carlson?

  That's the way it seems to me, but, you know-

• 18:40Speaker 01

  I mean, it really is, because it just doesn't pass any of the first principle test whatsoever. And, you know, it's funny, the, the companies that were the worst, I mean, this tended to be more of a, of a New York City, you know, kind of a ideology. Also, European ideology as well. I mean, there is some sincerity to it. I mean, this is, this is funny, you'll appreciate this, because I think the- Where we're going with all of this, because you've seen, obviously, a retreat with a lot of companies have backed away from DEI over the last couple of months. There's other companies that are holding on to some vestige of it, but there's others that are really all in on diversity, inclusion.

• 19:12Tucker Carlson?

  To this day.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  You're gonna love this. And the worst are the Europeans, because they really, I think, believe in this sort of European stakeholder capitalist model. So you have, I'll give you a plug for ALP right now. So if you talk about one of the worst companies that's out there.

• 19:27Tucker Carlson?

  America's greatest nicotine pouch.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  America's lip pillow.

• 19:30Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly.

• 19:31Speaker 01

  Who is your biggest competitor?

• 19:33Tucker Carlson?

  That would be the Zyn Corporation.

• 19:35Speaker 01

  Zyn. Do you know who owns Zyn?

• 19:36Tucker Carlson?

  I do.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  So it's Philip Morris International.

• 19:39Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  They are operationally headquartered in Switzerland. On their website to this day, I mean, you go on their website today, they have a massive diversity, equity, inclusion piece that is on their website. They have the, and I would say it's the, I'll call it the worst aspects of DEI, which can be quota systems, race-based systems. And on their website today, they say, "We're gonna hire 20% of our people, we want to be Asian." But on their website, it's 20%. They want 40% women. I mean, literally quota systems they have on their website today.

• 20:07Tucker Carlson?

  It shouldn't be 100% African, by the way, if they're really gonna make a dent, but they, because they're racist, so they wouldn't do that.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, I mean, but the other piece is that on their website, and this is a company that makes Marlboro cigarettes and Zyn and other things, is, so they're like, one of their big, one of their big partners for Pride Month that's coming up is the Stonewall Org. And Stonewall Org is one of these LGBTQ plus organizations, and, you know, fine, you can do that, but like, they are advocating for biological men to compete against women in sports.

• 20:36Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, Zyn is all in on the gay thing?

• 20:39Speaker 01

  I mean, but like, this is what's crazy, is that like, and I think this is the problem about where we're going, is-

• 20:44Tucker Carlson?

  What does that have to, keep that out of my mouth. I mean, this is like, come on.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  So, but like, this is the problem of, I think, like, where you're seeing, trying to serve multiple masses. I'm not making this up. You can literally go on their website, literally today, and see all of this. And I think this is the problem we're seeing, is that you have these more like European-based companies that I think might sincerely probably believe a lot of this, or the European mindset, which is very distinct from sort of the American capitalist model.

• 21:06Tucker Carlson?

  Tripped by war guilt, bent on suicide, yes.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, I mean, at least here in the United States and others, we have a democracy, we can throw people out if we don't like them, but corporations, I mean, they're transnational organizations, they operate-

• 21:18Tucker Carlson?

  With an emphasis on the trans.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, but emphasis on that. But they go across borders. And if you are sort of operation philosophically, sort of a European-based company, but you have operations in another country and you're imposing those values in another country, I think that's problematic.

• 21:35Tucker Carlson?

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  Have you ever heard of the Pelosi Stock Tracker? Well, here's the stock trading app behind it. Most of us don't have access to classified information, yet our politicians seem to. For years, they've been publicly trading stocks with some being oddly timed around certain legislation. Well, this team said, if you can't beat them, join them and build autopilot. It connects directly to your brokerage account like a Robin Hood or Schwab and mimics Nancy Pelosi and other politicians' stock trades automatically. So instead of debating what stocks to buy, you just trade alongside them hands-free. And the key thing here, your money stays in your own account. The app already has 1.3 billion invested so far.

• 24:34Speaker 03

  So if you wanted to check it out, search autopilot in the App Store or go to joinautopilot.com. That's joinautopilot.com. Investing has risks like the loss of principal.

• 24:45Tucker Carlson?

  It does feel like one of these, like in 10 years, we're going to look back and be like, you know, they were major consumer products companies that felt empowered to talk about your sex life and the sex lives of your children.

• 24:56Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 24:56Tucker Carlson?

  Back off with the gay stuff, by the way, just stop. Like, no one hates gays. Like, stop that. Stop that. Get out of my face with that stuff.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, I don't care how people dress. I don't care.

• 25:05Tucker Carlson?

  Sick of it, actually. But like, it's just insane that like a nicotine pouch company would be lecturing me about people's sex lives. Like, stop.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  I agree. And this is the other thing about like authentic, authentically, what is a, you know, whatever nicotine pouch, cigarette company, Marlboro, like, what are they doing? Working with organizations. I mean, another thing is Stonewall is like, hey, we want to do youth sex education. If we're LG.

• 25:28Tucker Carlson?

  How about I get my gun when you do that? Like, stay away from my kids. How's that?

• 25:31Speaker 01

  Again, just stay.

• 25:32Tucker Carlson?

  I don't understand that. Like, why any society would put up with it, why Zen would pay for it. Right. And of course, it's not just Philip Morris International. It's like so many of these companies.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  No, it is. And like, here's the other thing. It's like, I don't want Philip Morris to do the other stuff. I don't want them advocating for the Second Amendment either. It's like, you're a cigarette company. Just do that.

• 25:46Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 25:46Speaker 01

  Just, just do that.

• 25:47Tucker Carlson?

  They don't even sell cigarettes well. They don't even believe in what they do.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I think what's interesting about where we're going is that. You're going to have some of these companies, you're seeing the same with China. I mean, why is TikTok being asked to be sold in the United States? Well, because it's technically owned by Chinese company and the Chinese values, they're collecting data and information. That's not going to work for the United States, so they might need to sell it.

• 26:09Tucker Carlson?

  That's not why.

• 26:12Tucker Carlson?

  So. They got involved in some, you know, they were considered a vector for unapproved foreign policy positions, and that's why the Congress did that. And they pretended it was about collecting data. These are, you know, people who are all in on, you know, warrantless searches of Americans and spying on Americans, and they have no problem with violating your civil liberties at all. They don't think you have civil liberties, but they, they were under pressure to ban TikTok because it was considered radicalizing in ways that their donors wouldn't accept. So that's the truth. Sorry.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Got it. Well, you know, it's, uh, so.

• 26:48Tucker Carlson?

  It's never what they say it is.

• 26:49Speaker 01

  Never say, but, but I, I think the, the broader piece is though, is that whether it's TikTok, whether it's, you know, Zen in the United States, or Anheuser-Busch, which used to be American owned.

• 26:57Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  I think you're going to have a lot of these companies need to have choices about what they're going to make moving forward. If, I think it's be very difficult to operate in the US if the US is leaning more in towards, you know, these radical ideas of free speech and religion and, and open dialogue and, and those things, whereas we've always kind of been a city on the hill in the United States. We've always been this exceptional difference.

• 27:16Tucker Carlson?

  Now more than ever, really.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Probably now more than ever. I mean, we're almost more isolated than probably we've ever been.

• 27:19Tucker Carlson?

  I think that's.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  The last four or five years, yes, we were going more towards this quasi-European socialism, you know, government intervention and free speech and everything else. And we have now rejected that as a country. But I think what's difficult is that, yes, we've rejected it politically, but again, corporately, there's all these tethers from around the world.

• 27:37Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  The effects of globalization over the last 20 years, that you have a lot of these companies that frankly, might not hold sort of those same American values.

• 27:45Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Talk Philip Morris, you know, Anheuser-Busch InBev, based in Europe. In Europe, they have quota systems for how many board members have to look this way or be that way over in Europe. And one of the reasons that I think, again, going back to the original question, like, how did this happen in the United States? Bud Light, the biggest beer brand in the United States, how do they have a partnership with Dylan Mulvaney? Well, they, I think, have a lot of these European-type values now: diversity, equity, inclusion.

• 28:09Tucker Carlson?

  I'm so grateful for that scandal, for the effects on the company of that scandal, and for your writing this book, because, and for what you just told me, because I think most Americans, I'll put my, I'll say of myself, I have no idea, like, you know, you just use Crest toothpaste, you have no idea what they're sending money to. I used Zyn for years. I finally realized it was a left-wing company, I didn't get that at first. But most Americans just don't know what's happening to their money.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  No, they don't. And then, really, I think the eye-opening moment even for me, where how companies have been co-opted, is, I don't know if you meant to have the Black Rifle Coffee Company cup on your...

• 28:44Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, yeah, I love Evan.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  So, yeah, so, I mean, you'll appreciate this story, and I write about this in my book, Last Call for Bud Light, but one of the opening chapters I have is, so, I was President of Anheuser-Busch in the US, and I tried to do a distribution agreement with Black Rifle Coffee Company, because a lot of times, the same people that were drinking a six-pack of Bud Light, you know, Budweiser at night, were drinking six Black Rifle Coffees in the morning. And so, we were gonna put the Black Rifle Coffee, their, their kind of 16-ounce drinks, on the same trucks that carry Bud and Bud Light to Walmart, Kroger, and 7-Eleven. And so, I had this whole deal, and we were gonna make a bunch of money on that partnership. And our legal team, which was now based in New York City, and our external affairs team based in New York City, this is in, this is in 2021, killed the deal, said, "You can't do it." I was like, "What do you mean? Like, here's all the financials, this makes

• 29:29Speaker 01

  tons of sense, like, this is a great company, they're growing like gangbusters." I said, "Can't do it. Company's too controversial." I was like, "What do you mean?"

• 29:36Tucker Carlson?

  Controversial?

• 29:36Speaker 01

  I was like, you know, the company, like, their mission is to serve coffee and culture to firefighters, police officers, law enforcement, people who love America.

• 29:42Tucker Carlson?

  And the coffee, just in point of fact, is excellent.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, great coffee.

• 29:46Tucker Carlson?

  I drink it every day, it's great.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  This, this is my thing, I mean, you know, this is, that's their mission, that's what they do. And, you know, Budweiser, we had partnerships with Folds of Honor and other military, but in 2021, because of the whole DEI movement, which said, like, "Ooh, you know, they fund the police," and like, you know, "Defund the police" was a big thing, you know, kind of going on at the time, and, "Ooh, military, you know, I don't know about that, that seems a little bit too controversial." I'm like, "Guys, like, we sell, like, King Cobra 40-ounce bottles," you know, like, all over the place, like...

• 30:14Tucker Carlson?

  America's favorite malt liquor.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  You know, like, what are we talking about?

• 30:17Tucker Carlson?

  Do you guys make Old English 800?

• 30:18Speaker 01

  No, we didn't make Old English 800, no.

• 30:20Tucker Carlson?

  That was a brand, I drank that as a kid.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:22Tucker Carlson?

  It's one of the reasons I no longer drink.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, did you ever do, like, the Edward Forty Hands with that one?

• 30:26Tucker Carlson?

  I, no, no, that was a...

• 30:28Speaker 01

  Did you miss the Edward Forty Hands?

• 30:29Tucker Carlson?

  I did, and it just, you know, everyone beats up on kids for being dumb, but actually, the newer generations are way more brilliant than we ever were. Edward Forty Hands is like the funniest thing that ever happened.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, Edward Forty Hands was amazing, so.

• 30:40Tucker Carlson?

  Duck tape. I'm against drinking, I don't know why I'm laughing. I don't drink, I hate alcohol, but that is hilarious. Duck tape, 240 ounce malt liquor to kids' hands.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  That's it, you know, you couldn't, you couldn't untape them until you, until you finished both of them, so.

• 30:55Tucker Carlson?

  I feel guilty for laughing.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, there were too many bad stories, like, you know, someone get through one or half of them, like, you know, you're rumbling around and you fall and it's like, you know, you get glass everywhere. But anyway, so, no, not, not OE, um, there were, there were other ones.

• 31:07Tucker Carlson?

  Sorry, sorry for the digression.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  But, uh, I can't remember where we were going with that.

• 31:12Tucker Carlson?

  Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  No, we were, we were talking Black Rifle, and yeah, so the, the, the deal gets killed, and that exact same, because it was too controversial of a, of a brand, yet, a year later, that exact same department, based in New York City now, that killed the Black Rifle coffee deal, they greenlit the Dylan Mulvaney partnership. And the Dylan Mulvaney partnership, like, it was incredibly puzzling, if you're a Bud Light drinker, and, you know, again, like, man, I don't care how people identify or what they want to, you know, do with their lives, but like, one of the reasons that Bud Light became the biggest, most popular beer brand in the United States is because it was remarkably apolitical. Like, it was a brand that was enjoyed by Democrats and Republicans alike.

• 31:48Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  Because it was about, like, fun, and it was humor, and it was sort of this, like, you know, somewhat, you know, countercultural, you know, type of brand. It was about sports and music and, you know, backyard barbecues. And, all of a sudden, the Bud Light had just hired its first, you know, female head of Bud Light in the history of, of the brand. You know, no problem with that, I, you know, I'm sure there'd be, there are a lot of, there are a lot of people that, a lot of girls I know that'd be great VP of marketers at Bud Light. The problem with it was, the person they hired was a lady who had grown up in New York City, uh, went to Harvard for undergrad, Wharton for grad school, had only lived in basically the Northeast her entire life. Um, I don't know if she'd ever drank Bud Light in her life, and, you know, I don't know if she ever knew anybody who had as well. And she was very.

• 32:25Tucker Carlson?

  Why would she make her the head of the brand?

• 32:27Speaker 01

  Well, because like, the DI movement basically said that you need to essentially, you know, put different people in different roles.

• 32:32Tucker Carlson?

  You need a woman.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, based off immutable characteristics. And even the 21, 22 timeframe.

• 32:37Tucker Carlson?

  What was her name?

• 32:38Speaker 01

  Alyssa Heiner Schneider. And I know Alyssa. I mean, on this Alyssa, she's, you know, nice girl. And I worked with her when I was at the company for a while. But she probably wasn't the right person for Bud Light.

• 32:48Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, probably not.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  She obviously wasn't the right person.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  Almost 50%. So obviously wasn't the was the right person for the for the company. But in this broader kind of narrative in 21, 2021, 2022. This is when I was deciding to kind of like leave Anheuser Busch. I'd mentioned the the Black Rifle. Thing was kind of the the final sort of last straw for me. But even before that, the principles of the company changed. My joint was meritocracy. It was like, we want to hire the best and brightest. And we want to reward them based off their results and pay them accordingly. Great. But in 2122, all of a sudden, that principle, there were 10 principles of the company that went around really hiring the best price changed towards. We now reward people based off the quality and diversity, which was bolded by the company and diversity of your teams. And then all of a sudden, the company starts putting in these, you know, diversity dashboards.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  We can see what the diversity makeup of your of your team is.

• 33:40Tucker Carlson?

  White men did a pretty good job making beer, I think. Whatever you say about white men, like they created the company, they made the beer. Like, why we hate them all of a sudden. They created Budweiser.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  Well, I think it was just more so that the head scratching piece of like, you know, it doesn't matter if you're getting like white or black or gay. She like, don't care. I just want the best people.

• 33:57Tucker Carlson?

  Right. But the you know, like the only people discriminated against in DEI are white men, obviously, straight white men. So like,

• 34:04Speaker 01

  I don't understand. There are probably some Asians in there too. So.

• 34:06Tucker Carlson?

  Well, they definitely have. Well, they have been.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  A lot of Indians and a lot of other folks as well.

• 34:10Tucker Carlson?

  100% Asian, South Asians. But the point of it was to reduce the percentage of white men in positions of leadership or with paying jobs. And I just, I felt like nobody had the balls to say that out loud. Like, that was considered controversial to say that.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  You would get fired if you said that out loud.

• 34:26Tucker Carlson?

  That's true.

• 34:26Speaker 01

  This was in the 212022 timeframe, but that's the problem is where we were. I mean, you know, this is censorship regime. I mean, heck, you had the Biden administration.

• 34:34Tucker Carlson?

  I got fired.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  In the end, thank God. But no, yes, I did get fired. So actually, it's kind of. So you remember this?

• 34:43Tucker Carlson?

  I do, yeah, I guess I do.

• 34:44Speaker 01

  More so than anybody. But yeah, you couldn't speak up during this timeframe. That was the problem. And then, and then at the same time, you had all these companies that made all these pledges. I mean, the chief diversity officers, like this really wasn't even a position before 2020.

• 34:58Tucker Carlson?

  Chief diversity officer. What do you make? I make diversity.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, but this is crazy. Like, you know, and then all of a sudden there was like a 400% increase in chief diversity officer position. And these were all high six-figure salary positions, all the executive level.

• 35:10Tucker Carlson?

  What do you do if you're a diversity officer?

• 35:11Speaker 01

  Well, this is the problem. You find things to do. And this was the problem. So the first thing was the whole pronoun police comes in. Well, let's be more inclusive of all the pronoun piece. And then, hey, let's put in quota systems that we're going to put in place. So we hire a certain number of people with this immutable characteristic or that characteristic.

• 35:25Tucker Carlson?

  Did everyone buy into the pronoun thing? Did anyone say, I'm not doing that?

• 35:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, a lot of people did. But this is the problem as well. A lot of people just went along with it because they felt if you didn't, then you could be called out by your HR team.

• 35:36Tucker Carlson?

  Cowards.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  And I think that's what's part of the problem. Now, what's nice is that I think people have the ability, see, I'm not going to do that. But three years ago, you couldn't. Three years ago was.

• 35:44Tucker Carlson?

  The whole thing is designed to degrade you.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:47Tucker Carlson?

  And what are you really saying, by the way? If when you announce your pronouns, what you're saying is it's not evident to people watching what your sex is?

• 35:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:55Tucker Carlson?

  Like you're Pat or something from Saturday Night Live? Like, you may not know this, but I'm a man. Like, you can't tell by looking at me, but I'm actually a man. It's like the most degrading thing I can imagine.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  I completely agree. And I don't know. And if you're unsure, just ask, how are you doing? That's it. And you don't even have to use a pronoun if you're unsure. But I think for 99% of the time, you're pretty sure. And that's the problem. It's forcing this sort of agenda on 99% of the population says, wait a minute, what is this? I didn't know what this was.

• 36:20Tucker Carlson?

  The people who worked there, I mean, now I'm being mean, but I, I, well, I've lived it, so I feel it. Like, there were so few noble, honest, brave people in American corporate culture that I was shocked. I was shocked by what sheep they were. You'd think at least 20% would be like, buzz off. I'm not giving you my, that's disgusting. This is insane. And by the way, you're discriminating against white men, which is illegal and immoral. And we've got this monument on the mall from Luther King telling us you can't do that, but you're doing it anyway in his name. You know, why don't you go screw yourself, actually?

• 36:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:52Tucker Carlson?

  I don't think anybody said that.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  But there were a couple brave people.

• 36:55Tucker Carlson?

  How disappointing.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  But the brave people who stuck their neck out, I mean, they were eviscerated in the media. The first guy actually was, um, was Brian Armstrong. He was the CEO of Coinbase.

• 37:03Tucker Carlson?

  I remember very well.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  And this is at the end of 2020, right after all of the BLM and everything. And Brian Armstrong said, listen, like, I'm not going to tie it to the BLM movement. I'm not going to make a statement that we're in support of.

• 37:13Tucker Carlson?

  I was exactly right.

• 37:14Speaker 01

  Of, of, of BLM. I'm not going to do that either. He said, because the mission of our company Coinbase is to bring crypto to the masses. That's what we're doing. And if there's something related to crypto regulation or policy, sure, we'll have a view on that. But am I going to have a view on climate change or, or BLM issues or transgender policy? No, I'm not. And by the way, if you as an employee don't, don't want to be here, then go, go work somewhere else. And I think they had, I don't know, 50 employees or something locked out. But then he had 5,000 people that applied to work there.

• 37:44Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  But in the media, though, he was called bigoted and he was called racist. And he was called, you name it, all in the media because of him just having a view that says, I'm just not going to do this because it's not important to the company. And if I want people to come here and work for our mission, not necessarily for all these orthogonal things that have nothing to do with crypto to the masses.

• 38:02Tucker Carlson?

  It's funny how much just telling the story would, I mean, of course, I remember when it happened. I defended him when it happened, but it seems like you're talking about a different country. Like, things have changed so much.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  So much.

• 38:13Tucker Carlson?

  Is that, that's my perception. Is it yours?

• 38:15Speaker 01

  It is. Things, things have definitely swung back, but as I mentioned earlier, it's almost as if we're going into, I would say it's almost three camps with the purpose of business in this country and, and business getting involved in social, political, ESGDI topics. You have the people that have backed off because they've said, you know what? Getting involved in all these political and social, it wasn't good for my company from the stock standpoint and wasn't because I've lost money or divided my customer base. It wasn't really good for the country either. You've seen Meta and, and McDonald's and Walmart and Apple, or not Apple, sorry, Google. A lot of people have rolled back a lot of those policies. You have a second group of companies that are trying to kind of rebrand the whole sort of DEI narrative. They haven't realized it's become a pejorative term to the majority of Americans.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  They're calling it inclusivity, inclusivity and. Longing or I don't know all these other words they're trying to mash together. I would put probably more of the JP Morgans and I don't know those folks in that boat. But then you have the real adherents and these are the people that Philip Morris internationals. Even today, I mean, Anheuser-Busch InBev on their website for the UK, big DEI, diversity, equity, inclusion piece. Because I think you do have these real adherents and then even certain companies in the United States, I mean Costco is doubling down big time. I think partly because they're based in Seattle and because I think Costco Costco has doubled down big time.

• 39:31Tucker Carlson?

  That's like a warehouse store where you buy stuff by the pallet kind of.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  That's it. That place just doubled down massively, talking about that we're going to continue to have quota systems about who we actually give preferential treatment to. To who gets their products in store based off race or sex or gender.

• 39:43Tucker Carlson?

  Seriously?

• 39:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, they've been doubling down on this. So they're one of the companies that has kind of dug their heels in.

• 39:47Tucker Carlson?

  I hope they go out of business soon.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  So, but it's really interesting. So I, and the way that I think about, I think the companies that have just moved on, I think we need to get more to a. I'll go back to a corporate pluralism of whatever your mission is as a company, just do that. And however you need to recruit people, you know, the best and brightest to your industry, figure out how to do that. I would say probably move on from the DEI.

• 40:09Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. And I, and I don't think we can say that the United States has civil rights law at that point. If you're openly discriminating against people on the basis of their race, then all the civil rights act, it's all bullshit. None of that means anything.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  And, and you know, this is.

• 40:20Tucker Carlson?

  So like, let's just stop pretending. Okay. So if Costco wants to continue with racist policies. Then I guess everyone gets to have racist policies if they want on whatever basis of any race they want, like. You know what I mean? It's, it's a principle. So either you're. Against and in fact banning through federal law discrimination on the basis of race or you're not.

• 40:40Speaker 01

  No, that's it. And the Civil Rights Act, 1964, it literally says like, you cannot discriminate.

• 40:44Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I'm aware.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Gender, national origin, etc.

• 40:46Tucker Carlson?

  A thousand subsequent laws and regulations.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:50Tucker Carlson?

  Underscore that point. So.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  And you know, this is funny. So the, the, actually the Senate, um, the floor manager at the time was Hubert Humphries, who became Lyndon Johnson's VP. He was one who was ushering through the Civil Rights Act, 1964. He said, and this is his quote, says, if this leads to quota systems, I will eat my hat. This was his quote, and that's exactly what we got.

• 41:08Tucker Carlson?

  He's been dead too long to do it, but yeah, no, it kind of wrecked the country. Permanent Washington is terrified and distraught by the Trump revolution now in progress, and it is a revolution. And it's unfolding along very familiar lines. The White House is now giving voters what they actually want and what they've wanted for a long time. And that's the one thing that permanent Washington doesn't want to give them. They are working to stop it. Fortunately, our friends at Heritage, the Heritage Foundation in DC are fighting back. They've spent years thinking this through. How do you dismantle permanent DC, the deep structures underneath everything? How do you train replacements for the bureaucrats getting canned? How do you enact policies that voters actually voted for? Well, now that Biden is gone, Heritage's vision is finally becoming reality,

• 41:51Tucker Carlson?

  and you can help push it forward by going to heritage.org/tucker and making a tax deductible donation. Your gift fuels their American Rescue Plan and helps stop permanent Washington from crushing it, from strangling it in the cradle. Heritage has been doing this a long time. They've been successful, and they're more aggressive now than ever. Their work is worth supporting. Go to heritage.org/tucker to make your gift today. We hope you.

• 42:15Speaker 04

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• 43:16Tucker Carlson?

  Well, so just back to Anheuser-Busch. This disaster happens and...

• 43:24Tucker Carlson?

  It seems to be, I mean, according to the video that everybody saw, it really a product of this one decision. Well, it's the end of a chain of a lot of decisions, as you so

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Right, a lot of bad decisions.

• 43:32Tucker Carlson?

  ably described. But, but the key decision in the fall of Bud Light was by this Alyssa Schneihenhauser, whatever her name was, who went to Harvard. And there's this famous video where she's saying, you know, basically, I think the old white guys who drink our beer could use to be shaken up a little bit.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  The, the fratty, out of touch. That Bud Light's been fratty and out of touch.

• 43:56Tucker Carlson?

  Fratty and out of touch.

• 43:56Speaker 01

  Fratty and out of touch.

• 43:57Tucker Carlson?

  Yep. And I just have to say, I mean, she didn't run the company. She's the head of the brand. She has supervisors. If someone who worked for me, well, we, we sell ALP. And if someone's like in a meeting with me, like, the problem with ALP is its users suck. And they've got like antique, retrograde attitudes, and we just need to give them the finger. I would say, you're fired. Because you don't love our people.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  That's it. Exactly. So I

• 44:21Tucker Carlson?

  Why did no one say that?

• 44:22Speaker 01

  But, but that's what's crazy is that she literally called the customer base, you know, the fratty, out of touch. And like, you know, immediately lost trust with the whole entire customer base. Saying, what are you guys talking about? And, and

• 44:33Tucker Carlson?

  Do people like to be lectured?

• 44:35Speaker 01

  Love it.

• 44:36Tucker Carlson?

  Yelled at by Alyssa Schneihenhauser from Harvard?

• 44:40Speaker 01

  And, and, and what's crazy about this, so is the timeline of events was, so, because we're coming up on actually two years when this happened. So this partnership with, that Bud Light did with Dylan Mulvaney, controversial transgender actress, happened on April Fool's Day of 2023. So, and a lot of people originally thought this was a joke of like, oh, this is like Bud Light must be joking about this. Cause there's no way that they would ever do a partnership with somebody who was literally just at Joe Biden's White House advocating for gender affirmation care and biological men to compete against women in sports. But this is all of a sudden Bud Light's a partnership with this? Like, I don't understand this. Then two or three days later, that video comes out of Alyssa essentially being like Bud Light is fratty and out of touch. We're gonna be more

• 45:17Tucker Carlson?

  Fratty and out of

• 45:18Speaker 01

  And we're gonna be more inclusive. That's a problem. Alyssa was out of touch.

• 45:22Tucker Carlson?

  Are you a thing?

• 45:24Speaker 01

  This is who's out of touch.

• 45:25Tucker Carlson?

  Get some self-awareness, honey.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  It's crazy with what's going on. I mean, this is what, this is how out of touch I think a lot of the people in New York became.

• 45:32Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  Where all of a sudden they're saying, you know, no, no, our customers are out of touch. We need new customers and the new customers are going to be whoever follows Dylan Mulvaney on Instagram, which, which I think was actually like mostly like underage girls.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  Cause there were, cause there were literally all of these now investigations going on saying, wait a minute, you guys sponsored Mulvaney who just has a bunch of underage followers? Like, what are you guys doing? This makes no sense.

• 45:54Tucker Carlson?

  Dressed like a child?

• 45:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:57Tucker Carlson?

  Some dude dressed like a little girl? First of all, who's looking into that guy's personal life? You know, like that's dark.

• 46:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:03Tucker Carlson?

  But.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, so, so the partnership itself was, it was obviously incredibly flawed.

• 46:08Tucker Carlson?

  Is it true that Dylan Mulvaney is like a huge Zen user? Someone told me that he loves Zen.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  I don't know. I've, I've never met Dylan.

• 46:14Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know if that's true or not. Do you think it's?

• 46:15Speaker 01

  You should have Dylan on the show so you can figure it out.

• 46:17Tucker Carlson?

  Know what?

• 46:19Speaker 01

  You should.

• 46:19Tucker Carlson?

  I keep hearing, and I have no idea if it's true, I'm not endorsing this, but that Philip Morris and Zen are hiring Dylan Mulvaney. I don't know if that's true.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  I don't know. I mean, based off what I saw on their website, it would make perfect sense. I mean, they're almost becoming the Ben and Jerry's of a.

• 46:32Tucker Carlson?

  A hundred percent.

• 46:33Speaker 01

  I mean, that's what it is. And actually, you know what?

• 46:35Tucker Carlson?

  That's fine. I don't want that in my mouth. Okay? I just don't.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  And you know what? I actually, I actually respect Ben and Jerry's as a brand because they at least stand. They're very clear about what they stand for.

• 46:42Tucker Carlson?

  I completely agree.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  They say, we're going to use ice cream to advance a socially progressive mission. Great. Hey, in this country, you can do that. If there's a customer base for that, go do that.

• 46:49Tucker Carlson?

  I couldn't agree more. I find their ideas repugnant, but I respect their bravery and their principle. Their ice cream's like unbelievable. I'm, I'm going to get diabetes if I eat it again. But it's, it's really good and, and they're consistent in their views and I appreciate that. But like a company like Zen or AB, like you had no idea that they were, you know, spending money on causes that were like, you know, in direct conflict with your own family. These people hate your family and you're buying their products.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  And this was the whole deal. So like obviously the partnership itself made no sense, but the response to it was just as harmful and that was just as problematic.

• 47:25Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 47:26Speaker 01

  Because if you recall that there was, um, so, you know, Alyssa goes on the, on the, on the TV where she's fratty, out of touch. Kid Rock then lights up a pack of Bud Light with an AR-15, which was a big deal. So then all of a sudden you have all of these sort of people saying, you know, screw Bud Light, people posting videos of them not buying it and. Then the company said, hey, they, there was a quick press release saying, yes, we do partnerships with influencers to celebrate milestones. In this case, we did this milestone of 365 days of women. And everyone was like, what are you talking about Bud Light?

• 47:57Tucker Carlson?

  It's a dude, by the way. It's not. These are not women. These are men dressed as women. The whole thing is so insulting.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  And in the same way, you probably wouldn't at that time have sent a candidate Donald Trump to celebrate his coming in because Bud Light was not a political brand. And so everyone's really confused. And so the sales just tumbled. What's really, uh, what's really-

• 48:14Tucker Carlson?

  Was that obvious right away?

• 48:15Speaker 01

  So, yeah. So this was really interesting. It's like boycotts tend to work for, for two reasons. And they actually had never worked almost in history. Everyone talks about, I hated when the NFL had the whole kneeling thing going on, but NFL ratings were super high. Um, other people have called a boycott company almost never worked. But in this case, it worked for two reasons. One, if there's a easily accessible substitute. So if you think about everywhere you could buy Bud Light, you have Coors Light, you have Miller Lite. I mean, you go to a gas station, you have Coors Light six packs, Miller Lite six packs, Bud Light six packs. And then you also, if you go to bar, you have Miller Lite on tap, you have Bud Light on tap. And for 95% of Americans, I mean, Bud Light is indistinguishable from Coors Light and from Miller Lite. So the substitutes are easily there.

• 48:50Tucker Carlson?

  Do you know, I quit drinking before light beer was a thing. I never have had a light beer in my life. From, men just did not drink light beer when I quit drinking. Is it good?

• 48:59Speaker 01

  Bud Light?

• 49:00Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I've never had a Bud Light.

• 49:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. But if you like, if you like light beer, I mean, it's, it's a great light beer. It's very consistent. They have great brewmasters. They have, so it's, it's very good as a, as a product. But so also is Coors and Miller Lite. But it's, it's almost, it's almost like a commodity of a, of a, of a brand. So therefore, the only thing you actually did have was your brand itself, which Bud Light was funny, humorous and, and apolitical. The other reason that boycotts work is that if you actually feel like you're having an impact and having an effect. And the other thing that happens, which is interesting in the beer industry is every week you get data that's reported by Walmart and Kroger and 7-Eleven and-

• 49:33Tucker Carlson?

  Your big retailers.

• 49:33Speaker 01

  All these big retailers about what sales look like. And that's just reported every week. Usually people don't care about that at all. I mean, you know, no one ever cares what the real sales are. But in this, in this instance, all of a sudden, the media was reporting every single week that Bud Light sales were down 10%, 20%, 30%.

• 49:49Tucker Carlson?

  So it snowballs.

• 49:50Speaker 01

  So it starts snowballing. And they, and it's Bush, they can't- Starve the media of information and data. And so all of a sudden, like Anheuser-Busch is watching their sales decline a lot. And they realized, wow, we gotta, we gotta do something. The problem was, they always say they're, they're, they're stuck between this, you know, the, the BlackRock in a hard place. You know, it's BlackRock for saying, hey, you guys need more DEI and inclusivity. And that's the agenda we're pushing. There are corporations like the Human Rights Campaign that scores Anheuser-Busch every single year on their.

• 50:19Tucker Carlson?

  Why would a beer company? I mean, the Human Rights Campaign are freaks. I mean, they're literally freaks and they're evil, completely evil, in my opinion. It's not about equality. It's about crushing families in Christianity, obviously. So why would a beer company care what they think?

• 50:35Speaker 01

  Well, because the problem was, again, BlackRock, State Street Vanguard, who are technically these large shareholders of your business. They have adopted ESG and DI. And they're saying, if you want to get included in our ESG indexes, or like Bloomberg, Bloomberg has a gender equality index. If you want to get included in these, you guys need to have a perfect score on the Human Rights Campaign.

• 50:53Tucker Carlson?

  Man, if I'm the Chinese, I'm encouraging this a lot.

• 50:56Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 50:57Tucker Carlson?

  Wreck, wreck your opponent with this stuff.

• 50:59Speaker 01

  I mean, it's insane. Like, it made no sense. And when the Human Rights Campaign started, I don't know, 20 years ago, like, the whole thing was like, okay, like, I don't know, don't make fun of like, I don't know, LGBTQ plus. Okay, fine.

• 51:08Tucker Carlson?

  I was never against Human Rights Campaign, just for the, I worked like a block from them for 15 years in downtown DC on 17th Street. I was never against them at all. I was like, okay, I'm for civil liberties, including for gays. I'm not, I'm not against that at all. I'm for it.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  But it became incredibly rigid.

• 51:24Tucker Carlson?

  It wasn't about that at all. It was about destroying American society, which they have done a lot to achieve.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  And now to get these perfect scores, then you had to have so many commercials that advertised to LGBTQ plus. You had to do the, all the gender affirmation stuff in your health.

• 51:37Tucker Carlson?

  You gotta, you gotta sell gay beer.

• 51:38Speaker 01

  I mean, that, that was essentially like, like what it was becoming. And even the company itself, I mean, they were trying to win these like con lion awards over in Europe. And so we, so we used to always think like our advertisements was, did you win the USA Today's Super Bowl ad meter award? That showed like you were in touch with the kind of American consumer. And for, I mean, from like 2003 to 2013, Anheuser-Busch won it every single year. Then when they brought in new European ownership and new marketers, all of a sudden they didn't win it for 10. Years and what they tried now start winning and showing they won these con lion awards which over in Europe they have these awards in con France and to win the con lion advertising awards you have to have your DEI and your ESG policies and you have to do all of the advertisements

• 52:20Tucker Carlson?

  that are essentially Sell beer. Why do you care about an award in Cannes, France?

• 52:23Speaker 01

  You shouldn't. But again, to get included in the BlackRock State Street Vanguard indexes for ESG DI, you can highlight your awards that you won from con lion. You can highlight your perfect score from the Human Rights Campaign. You can highlight

• 52:34Tucker Carlson?

  These are just all control mechanisms run by people like Larry Fink, like the worst people in the world.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  There was a whole, I call it the stakeholder capitalism industrial complex and everybody was just trying to make money. McKinsey, they were the big consulting firm. I mean, they had this, again, this Diversity Matters Diversity Wins Report to sell consulting services for DEI. BlackRock had a whole DEI component to put people into certain funds to charge investors more money. You had a lot of activists that they wanted to show that they were could get more money from Soros or whoever else that they're making progress by putting up actually activist proposals at companies that shareholders would then vote on. So it was this big, almost like industrial complex just kept feeding on itself.

• 53:13Tucker Carlson?

  To destroy the meritocracy and destroy the United States.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  I mean, essentially, like, that's where like where we were going.

• 53:18Tucker Carlson?

  It destroys the country. If you don't have a meritocracy, if the best people can't rise because of the wrong color or the wrong sex, then your country collapses.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  And almost, I mean, Bud Light was essentially holding the pin when this whole, I mean, bubble popped. They were, this is the first time that people saw like, wait a minute, you know, okay, I didn't like when Disney got involved in the parental rights issues down in Florida, but you know, Disney is always kind of a little, a little out there. And didn't make any sense that Disney was getting involved in this here.

• 53:41Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it's the same attitude, same.

• 53:43Speaker 01

  But kind of same attitude. But the problem with Disney is that, okay, you know, I don't like Disney, but there's only one Disney World. I don't really have a lot of other places to go, so I'm still going to go to Disney World. But with Bud Light, people easily went to Coors Light, Bud Light. And so Going back to this whole story about why the response was so damaging, so.

• 53:59Tucker Carlson?

  Can I just ask, since you worked there and you've written a book on it?

• 54:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I had left by this point, so.

• 54:04Tucker Carlson?

  Right, of course, but I mean, you know the business.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 54:07Tucker Carlson?

  What's the right, before you explain what they did, what's the right answer? So you're running Anheuser-Busch right now, this happens, it's a huge threat to your core business, which is selling beer.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:18Tucker Carlson?

  How do you, what do you do?

• 54:20Speaker 01

  I mean, like, the answer is so simple. The first thing you do is that you fire the VP of Marketing, who just called your entire customer base fratting it out of touch. And then you say, we fired her because that was obviously not empathetic to our customers and not core of business.

• 54:33Tucker Carlson?

  You hate our customers, you can't work here.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  You can't work here, like, just like, fuck, done, like, out. And then separately, like, the biggest piece is, like, then you just apologize, you know, I always say it's like the path.

• 54:42Tucker Carlson?

  Apologize? What, are you crazy?

• 54:45Speaker 01

  But it's like, it's like, the path to, like, I always say, like, redemption, it goes through forgiveness. But the only way you're going to be forgiven is if you admit you had made a mistake. And then what you say is like, hey, this was obviously a mistake that this person made, and so we've moved on from this person, because we made a mistake hiring this person, putting them in. And then separately also, we made a mistake as Bud Light. We made a mistake because Bud Light was never supposed to be involved in controversial political issues. And Dylan Mulvaney was not the right choice of a person to get involved with, because there are things, I mean, if you recall as well, the week this partnership happened. This was during the time when a lot of legislation is in session, so there were, I think, 25 bills across the country to ban biological men from playing against women in sports.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  There was a bunch of bills banning gender affirmation care, and also leading up to this week, that was the week that you had the transgender shooter in the Christian school in Tennessee.

• 55:34Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, whose manifesto we weren't allowed to see.

• 55:36Speaker 01

  Right, exactly. So, I mean, this was like a very big issue across the entire country right now.

• 55:40Tucker Carlson?

  So violent group, whoa.

• 55:41Speaker 01

  So this is why there was a lot of problems with Dylan Mulvaney, who had become kind of the face of really the very progressive transgender movement, why Bud Light never should have done the partnership in the first place. And say, like, because Bud Light was always about fun and music and sports, it's like, we should have never had this person as a sponsorship. Again, they shouldn't have Donald Trump as a sponsor either.

• 55:59Tucker Carlson?

  Of course, I agree.

• 56:00Speaker 01

  Just so that's for Bud Light now.

• 56:01Tucker Carlson?

  You sell beer, just sell your beer.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  We're going to get back to selling beer, guys, we screwed. We apologize. We want our customers back. We're selling beer. End of story. The problem is they couldn't do that because they'd made all these other commitments to the Human Rights Campaign, who they tried to, who they highlighted every single year in their annual ESG report, that they had a perfect score on it. They had made-

• 56:20Tucker Carlson?

  But the Human Rights Campaign is like, they're not big shareholders of AB.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  No, but-

• 56:24Tucker Carlson?

  They have no right to run a beer company.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  But they're a stakeholder of AB, and that becomes the problem. You have all these-

• 56:31Tucker Carlson?

  They have no, like, moral legitimacy. What are, even if you love the Human Rights Campaign, which is totally evil, just, that's my opinion, having, you know, known them. But even if you love them, why do they get a veto over the behavior of like a huge publicly traded company? It's just like crazy.

• 56:48Speaker 01

  Again, it all just feeds on itself, and it's called the stakeholder capitalism industrial complex.

• 56:53Tucker Carlson?

  But the stakeholders are really the beer drinkers.

• 56:55Speaker 01

  But that's the problem, but that became the least-

• 56:56Tucker Carlson?

  But we can insult them!

• 56:57Speaker 01

  Your customer became sort of the lowest priority, which is the problem.

• 57:00Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly, exactly!

• 57:02Speaker 01

  It made zero sense. And then so, so again, this partnership originally happened on April 1st. On April 15th, that's when you have the CEO for the first time, a guy named Brendan Whitworth, who I know, you know, very well, he made a first public, essentially, response. And it's almost this comical letter. I think it was called like "Our Letter to America" or something, where he never acknowledged the situation they were in, they never acknowledged the controversy, never mentioned Dylan by name. It was just a, "Hey, we're gonna get back to brewing beer, and here's a video of Clydesdale riding, riding across America." And, I mean, as you can imagine, the outrage was, was, I mean, palpable, both on the right, and their loyal customers that were like, "Wait a minute, we wanted that exact, you know, kind of apology, and hey, we fired the person I just gave." But then now you have all these people on the left that are saying, "Wait a minute,

• 57:46Speaker 01

  I wanted you guys to see you're gonna be, become like Ben and Jerry's. You know, I want you guys to be doing more of the, of the, of the Dylan campaign." And so all of a sudden, the company, actually, its sales declined even more. And funny enough-

• 57:57Tucker Carlson?

  Is he still there?

• 57:58Speaker 01

  He's still there, which is crazy. Everyone is still there. There's been zero accountability for this, despite the fact-

• 58:02Tucker Carlson?

  I wanna say, so, um, you know, I don't know the guy. I've met him and talked to him. A former CIA guy.

• 58:08Speaker 01

  Former CIA guy.

• 58:09Tucker Carlson?

  He told me, right. Extremely physically fit.

• 58:13Speaker 01

  Big CrossFit guy.

• 58:14Tucker Carlson?

  Most CEOs I've met, and particularly the more disconnected from manufacturing they are, the more finance oriented they are, the better physical condition they're in. Just cut jawlines, they all play lacrosse at Middlebury, they're always on the

• 58:27Speaker 01

  The guy looks like G.I. Joe.

• 58:28Tucker Carlson?

  A hundred percent. I'm not against physical fitness. I could use a little more myself. But that doesn't seem like a relevant criterion if you're choosing a CEO and yet every Larry Fink is kind of pudgy, so I'm on his side for that. But it feels like whoever's doing the hiring here is doing it based on appearance and these are white people mostly, so it's not, it's not D E I exactly, but it is a form of D E I. Like why, like that guy seemed like every other CEO I've met in the last 10 years. Vapid, afraid, completely terrified. You could smell the fear on the guy. Obsessed with his physical appearance and totally lacking creativity. Are those fair descriptions? That was just my reaction from spending an evening with him.

• 59:12Speaker 01

  That's amazing. I mean, you, you, you spent one evening with him. I spent, I don't know. I've known Brendan for 10 years, 15 years.

• 59:17Tucker Carlson?

  I'm not saying he's like a terrible person. I, I'm, you know, I, I don't know that, but I, but he is definitely, and I hate to single him out, though he's a former CIA guy.

• 59:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:25Tucker Carlson?

  Which should be disqualifying right there, but, oh, I'm sorry. But like, he seemed emblematic of an entire class of people who, in my pretty extensive experience around them, are deeply unimpressive. Like not, I would not hire any of them to do anything in my way.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  I mean, I think the bigger piece is just, it's, it's the lack of courage. And I think we saw this a lot with a lot of CEOs. And I think especially with, with Brendan Ware. So he reported into a global CEO, which is this guy, Michelle Du Caris, who's European and kind of.

• 59:56Tucker Carlson?

  I'm sure he's a good guy.

• 59:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So, and I think this is, this is again, they, the

• 1:00:01Tucker Carlson?

  Some like French mastermind.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, but, but it's a little bit of that, where, where Brendan, all of a sudden, like, and he needed to take a hard stand and say, you know what? We screwed up. We're firing this person. We apologize. And we're gonna get back to doing Bud Light commercials that are, you know, fun and humorous, whatever else. And he didn't do it. And he didn't do it that first time in April. There was another really

• 1:00:19Tucker Carlson?

  But so how does he keep his job?

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  Well, I, I'll get back to that in a second. But then like this was really telling. There was um going into July 4th weekend of 2023. This is the biggest beer selling weekend of the year. Bud Light sales had tanked down 30, 40%. The stocks lost $40 billion in market cap. The uh the business had gone from making $6 billion.

• 1:00:36Tucker Carlson?

  It lost how much in market cap?

• 1:00:38Speaker 01

  It lost $40 billion in market cap. Forty billion of market cap. I mean, the stock was around $70 a share. When this happened, it went down to $40 billion.

• 1:00:45Tucker Carlson?

  So how can this Alyssa chick and the CIA dude still, I mean, how could they ever work again in American business? Forty billion dollars?

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  You'll love this. Alyssa was placed on leave at some point along this. She's actually now working for Liv in the Liv Tour. The Saudi Gulf Tour, which is like, I swear to God. I mean, like, you can't make this up.

• 1:01:00Tucker Carlson?

  Actually?

• 1:01:01Speaker 01

  I swear to God. Yeah, I swear to God. So it's at least on our LinkedIn. It's working for the Liv Saudi Gulf Tour. So uh anyway, that's we can get to that in a second. So

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  we'll get to that in a second. But the uh so going to July 4th weekend 2023, for the first time Brendan goes on national TV. And he goes on CBS and he has this live interview where um he's going to try and get this back on track. Cause he's now missed twice with a response and it's only antagonized people and things have gotten worse. So he goes on CBS and one of the hosts first off says, hey, thank you for being here. Cause most people in your seat, they would have run for the hills. I mean, after what we've seen with millions of customers losing uh leaving you billions of dollars being lost. But they say, hey, the question everyone wants to know is, was this partnership a mistake? And would you do it again? And he gives some real wishy washy mealy mouthed answer. Well, there's a lot of things going on in the world and culture and this and that.

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  And after 30 seconds of kind of wavering around, the host comes back and says, to be clear, like you do realize the answer you just gave is the reason why. Millions of people have left, billions of dollars have been erased. Let me ask again. Was this campaign a mistake? And would you do it again? And again, he gives a completely evasive.

• 1:02:08Tucker Carlson?

  Forty billion dollar loss and he can't say it's a bad idea.

• 1:02:11Speaker 01

  Can't say it's a bad idea. And what's crazy is that literally that exact same week Dylan and I only I can't I feel bad for Dylan in this whole thing because Dylan essentially comes out and says, hey, if you can't stand by like a transgender, you know, person, then don't do the campaign. Don't do it. You know, that's worse than not hiring somebody at all, but like just don't do it. And so Dylan essentially said it was a mistake because they couldn't. Stand by it. Larry Thinkcat, week at the Aspen Ideas Festival says, I'm not using the term ESG anymore because it's become too controversial and it's lost its meaning. And you have this now CEO of one of the most iconic companies in the United States, Ann Heiser-Bush, can't make a direct response about a campaign that has cost this company billions of dollars, millions of customers. They had to fire thousands of employees after this supplier shutdown.

• 1:02:56Tucker Carlson?

  But not the CIA guy. He kept his job.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  But he's kept his job still. I mean, he's still kept his job.

• 1:03:00Tucker Carlson?

  I don't understand that. Like, where's, does the company have a board?

• 1:03:03Speaker 01

  Well, this is the problem, but it's a European-based board. So it's based over in Europe. It's based in Belgium. They still abide by a lot of these different philosophy. And this is where we're coming into an issue.

• 1:03:13Tucker Carlson?

  So what's the point of having a head of the company, a president of the company?

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  If you're just going to be a puppet. That's the problem. And that's where I almost think that for a lot of companies, I think, and specifically, I think their company's actually better off probably selling its US business unit at this point. Because I don't think you can serve this European system.

• 1:03:29Tucker Carlson?

  But it's so damaged.

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  Well, it is, but I think people love a great American comeback story.

• 1:03:33Tucker Carlson?

  I agree.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  Like, they do. And but to make that story, you have to admit again that there was a mistake and that you screwed up and that you've taken accountability for it and that we now have a different plan. It doesn't matter how much money the company has subsequently spent on, I mean, it's $100 million for Dana White and the UFC. They've hired Shane Gillis. They've hired Peyton Manning. They've done all these things to try and get their customer back. But all the customer wants is like, guys, they say you screwed up.

• 1:03:57Tucker Carlson?

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• 1:04:42Tucker Carlson?

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• 1:05:26Tucker Carlson?

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• 1:06:08Tucker Carlson?

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• 1:06:31Speaker 05

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• 1:07:16Speaker 05

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• 1:07:31Tucker Carlson?

  But all of it is so far from the core mission. I mean, I knew, you know, former head of that company pretty well, wonderful man. And it's probably still was true as of last year. You know, he was, doesn't, doesn't run the company anymore, is August Bush.

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  August Bush the third?

• 1:07:47Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, the third.

• 1:07:48Speaker 01

  What, what, what the best meetings I've ever been in my entire life.

• 1:07:50Tucker Carlson?

  It's amazing.

• 1:07:50Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 1:07:51Tucker Carlson?

  He's, he's unbelievable. I could tell stories. But yeah, no, he's an unbelievable person. But he, and this may be true today, you know, he's, he's an older man, mid eighties anyway, but he was still tasting Budweiser beer every single week. They, they send him every single US product and he tastes it. He's one of six or seven, you know this because you worked there. And the people who founded that company, that family, you could say a lot of things about the family and it's big, fractious family with all kinds of stories, but they all love beer.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:08:20Tucker Carlson?

  Like they truly love beer. They drink their beers, like they think that Bud Light's an amazing beer. And they think, you know, Bud Heavy's a great beer, like they're into the product.

• 1:08:28Speaker 01

  Oh, totally.

• 1:08:29Tucker Carlson?

  It feels like that's a correct, like I use Alp from the second I wake up to the second I go to bed. That's what happened. That's why we own the company because I love it. And I think. If you don't have that spirit, if the head of Philip Morris doesn't even smoke Marlboro Reds, get out.

• 1:08:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I totally agree.

• 1:08:46Tucker Carlson?

  If you're embarrassed of what you do, don't do it.

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  I completely agree. I mean, the Budweiser, they said they almost had Budweiser in their veins. I think there was a whole story that when you're, when you're born, they let you give you a thimble of Budweiser. It's like the first thing I think you drink.

• 1:08:57Tucker Carlson?

  And if you've got a problem with it, don't work there.

• 1:08:59Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 1:08:59Tucker Carlson?

  I don't, I, why is that hard?

• 1:09:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:01Tucker Carlson?

  If you go to church and like the priest is like, well, actually I'm an atheist. It's like, okay, I'm not saying you should go to jail for atheism, but I don't think you should be preaching in a church.

• 1:09:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, shouldn't be here.

• 1:09:09Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  So I, so, so completely agree. And I think that's one of the problems that we have is that even here in the, and there's a bunch of other brands as well. I mean, like Jeep's another great one. Jeep's owned by now Stellantis, which is based over in the Netherlands. And you're talking about, man, if you're going to have an American brand like Jeep, should that really be owned by the Europeans? They just have a completely different philosophical system and they just have the, the European mindset is very different.

• 1:09:29Tucker Carlson?

  Like tiny little electric cars, little gay cars. It's so weird.

• 1:09:34Speaker 01

  You might be seeing a little mini Jeep.

• 1:09:35Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  I have an eight-year-old daughter. She used to have one of those like Barbie Jeeps.

• 1:09:39Tucker Carlson?

  That's probably, that's probably. Little big Jeep, little Stonewall Jeep. No, it's like, no, it's fine. I mean, I'm not like, go make a Stonewall Jeep if you want, but like, there should be just like a regular Jeep too.

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that's okay. And give that customer that regular Jeep as well. And so, I don't know, this is, this is where I think also these companies also need to go to. I think another company that's actually done like a pretty good job of navigating a lot of the cult, the cultural wars. It's actually Netflix, a lot of credit. Um, if you remember, there was two or three years ago, Netflix getting a lot of pressure to cancel Dave Chappelle. Remember when there was this Dave Chappelle special?

• 1:10:10Tucker Carlson?

  Well, they wanted to cancel Dave Chappelle.

• 1:10:12Speaker 01

  Well, well, a lot of other people wanted to cancel Dave Chappelle, uh, because he had jokes about the LGBTQ, but in a million other communities, by the way. I mean, Dave Chappelle doesn't leave anybody unscathed and there was a lot of pressure.

• 1:10:22Tucker Carlson?

  He was tough on the trans thing though. He's like, this is, this is not right. I mean, he, he like.

• 1:10:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. He, he was tough on that.

• 1:10:28Tucker Carlson?

  He wasn't just mocking. He was like, men cannot become women, period. Sorry. I'm a Muslim. I'm not doing this.

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. But you know, his, that's, hey, it's freedom of speech in the country.

• 1:10:35Tucker Carlson?

  I agree. No, I'm a hundred percent on Dave Chappelle's side. I'm just saying he was, it was more than just a joke. Like he, he was serious about it, I think.

• 1:10:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, but, and the thing I at least give Netflix credit for is when all of this was going on, they were told to cancel Chappelle. They came out with this culture of excellence. And this culture of excellence document essentially said like, we are not going to censor artists at Netflix. We are going to put out content for liberals, conservatives, whatever you kind of name it, and people will watch whatever they want to watch, but we are not going to censor it at Netflix. And if you have an issue with that, then go work somewhere somewhere else. And I should give Netflix a lot of credit for that because they're based in California and everything else. And that's great.

• 1:11:10Tucker Carlson?

  They employ the Obamas.

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's it. Play that. But then also, well, I guess it was Amazon that picked up the Melania Trump deal. But great, like, put it all out there. I mean, who cares? America's watch whatever they want. And so I give them a lot of credit for that. I think that that's also where Ann Heiser Bush kind of needs to go as well as to say, listen, we have a whole portfolio of beers. And hell, we have King Cobra 40 ounce bottles.

• 1:11:32Speaker 01

  But then we also have craft breweries like Goose Island.

• 1:11:35Tucker Carlson?

  So they make King Cobra 40s. And again, I don't drink. I'm opposed to alcohol, but I love that I live in a country that still makes King Cobra 40s. I do. I do. I can't help it. And I assume that is, I assume they weren't pushing Dylan Mulvaney on King Cobra drinkers.

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

  Uh, no, they were not putting on a game. That's the way they were not doing it. No, that would be hilarious. So that would be maybe they should. That would be amazing. That'd be amazing. Bring that back.

• 1:11:57Tucker Carlson?

  That would be.

• 1:11:58Speaker 01

  A pinup of Dylan Mulvaney on a King Cobra.

• 1:12:01Tucker Carlson?

  Totally. If Alyssa Schopenhauer, whatever her name is, like, I think King Cobra drinkers are out of touch. That would take some balls.

• 1:12:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, that would. That'd be amazing. That would take some balls. That takes some balls. So, yeah, but they also have Goose Island. And Goose Island in Chicago, they have a Sounds Queer, I'm in IPA. And fine, you're in Chicago and, and that's what people want. Great. Give them to those folks for your craft brewers as well. I've never had it. I don't know. There's a beer advocate thing that just is one of these websites that wait rates beers. They say it's great. So great. They can do that as well.

• 1:12:30Tucker Carlson?

  By the way, I haven't had a beer in almost 25 years, but someone, the head of the Athletic Brewing Company, which is not a sponsor of the show, by the way, he just sent me a couple of cases of it. Have you ever had that?

• 1:12:40Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I have it. I have it in my, my. I actually traded emails.

• 1:12:44Tucker Carlson?

  Best thing I've ever had.

• 1:12:45Speaker 01

  It's great. And so I like it a lot. I actually traded emails with, with Bill Shufeld, who's the.

• 1:12:48Tucker Carlson?

  That's exactly who I am. What a good guy.

• 1:12:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, great guy. So it's funny because I, he's done an amazing job and I respect the company.

• 1:12:54Tucker Carlson?

  The product is just so good.

• 1:12:56Speaker 01

  Very good. Great product. I, I wrote a post. He got almost a billion dollar valuation for this company in his latest round. And I just disagreed with the valuation. I do some consumer investing. So I wrote a post about like, hey, great job. Kudos. Congratulations. Here's why I don't think it's going to be a $3 billion company. He had some issues with my post. You know, but I said, hey, I respect what you've done and I just, you know, don't think you're going to be a $3 billion company.

• 1:13:20Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know anything about, I like him. Nice guy. Again, they are not sponsors of this show, but um, he's totally focused on the product.

• 1:13:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's it.

• 1:13:29Tucker Carlson?

  Like he just thinks it's the best product ever. He just thinks it's amazing and he's right. It is.

• 1:13:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's great product. It tastes just like regular beer.

• 1:13:35Tucker Carlson?

  I think it's better than, well, I haven't had a beer in a while, but it's really good. I had four at dinner the other night.

• 1:13:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're great.

• 1:13:43Tucker Carlson?

  Good for me. I don't know. He sent me, I don't know. He sent me a, all kinds of different, one was called Tucker, actually.

• 1:13:48Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 1:13:49Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, it was, I think it was a wheat beer. It was the least good, but they were all, yeah, they were amazing.

• 1:13:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it's opened up what his, his non-alcoholic beer, you see, I mean, it was terrible and they're really like.

• 1:13:58Tucker Carlson?

  I never had one. It was so bad.

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  Felt so.

• 1:14:00Tucker Carlson?

  It was kind of a joke. Now that feels like a Dylan Mulvaney segment.

• 1:14:06Speaker 01

  That's what it was. That was essentially what, what non-alcoholic beer was. And he totally just reframed what it can be, where it can be good, cool, you have it after a run, you feel better.

• 1:14:15Tucker Carlson?

  Like actually delicious.

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  Actually delicious. And there's this whole movement now. I mean, it's, it's crazy. My, I, even though I'm categorized a millennial, you know, I like to identify as the greatest generation here, Tucker, but you know, like, I take them categorized as a, as a millennial, but my core, I think 80% of us used to drink alcohol when we were in our twenties. And now that Gen Z is in their, their twenties, only 60% of them is drinking alcohol.

• 1:14:36Tucker Carlson?

  Is that true?

• 1:14:37Speaker 01

  Yes. I mean, there's been a massive drop off in the number of people drinking alcohol and then across all cohorts. Gen Z, millennial, Gen X, boomers, everyone's generally drinking less also because people are just becoming more health conscious. So he's doing a great job of picking up a lot of those people that still like the taste of beer or the occasion of beer. But they just don't want to drink a six pack of beer and feel like trash.

• 1:14:55Tucker Carlson?

  Forget how good hops are.

• 1:14:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:57Tucker Carlson?

  Hops are amazing and um, hops exist for a lot of reasons, but one is to counterbalance the taste of alcohol because alcohol does not taste good.

• 1:15:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:15:04Tucker Carlson?

  Take the alcohol out, the hops just, pardon the pun, flower.

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:09Tucker Carlson?

  Into this amazing, now I'm getting very. Out of control, but like this bouquet of flavor.

• 1:15:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:15Tucker Carlson?

  I'm getting very Del Mavini now, but like, yeah.

• 1:15:18Speaker 01

  It actually beer complements food a lot better than wine does.

• 1:15:21Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, it does.

• 1:15:22Speaker 01

  Because you have lagers and porters and stouts and IPAs. Usually with wines, you kind of red and white and that's about it. But there it actually does a much better job of food.

• 1:15:29Tucker Carlson?

  Have you ever seen Alyssa Schopenhauer or whatever her name is, Alyssa German name from Harvard? And then CIA guy CEO, have you ever seen them drink beer at lunch?

• 1:15:40Speaker 01

  Probably not at lunch. I don't know. I feel, uh, Brendan was more of like a, you know, he would drink Budweiser like here and there, maybe one or so, but I think he was much more into the, you know, muscle milk and that was kind of his, you know, his thing. So.

• 1:15:52Tucker Carlson?

  Come on now.

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  But I, I don't know, man. And again, it's, Brendan should have been more courageous. I don't know. Like the guy, he took a company that was doing $6 billion of profits and now doing $4 billion of profits. I mean, just there, you've lost $2 billion. You're still here. That's the problem.

• 1:16:07Tucker Carlson?

  I, what is, what is that?

• 1:16:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's.

• 1:16:10Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, you say like, okay, he's a puppet. He's clearly a puppet and he's terrified. And I, again, I don't mean to attack him personally, though of course I am, but sure he's not a bad guy. I'm sure his wife and kids like him, but, um, it does seem like the people pulling his puppet strings, that's obviously true.

• 1:16:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:27Tucker Carlson?

  They have an interest in making money. Like I don't understand the total lack of accountability in corporate America.

• 1:16:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I.

• 1:16:33Tucker Carlson?

  No one's ever fired. It's like the US military.

• 1:16:35Speaker 01

  Well, but I think this is, this part of it, again, when you're controlled this European corporation, like they think they're doing a good thing by trying to get involved and pushing more of the, the political issues. Also, I think there's something to be said is that when you, I don't know, reach a certain level of wealth and money in your, you know, billionaire type class.

• 1:16:47Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that's it.

• 1:16:48Speaker 01

  You want to be part of the right social circles.

• 1:16:50Tucker Carlson?

  Doesn't actually matter to you.

• 1:16:51Speaker 01

  That's it. And I think that's part of it because the whole company is more controlled by these Belgian families and a couple of Brazilian families as well. And now their kids are on the board and I think it's just being in the right.

• 1:17:00Tucker Carlson?

  I bet their kids are pretty great, right?

• 1:17:02Speaker 01

  You know, I, I've never met them, but.

• 1:17:04Tucker Carlson?

  Billionaire kids. Let's put some billionaire kids on the board.

• 1:17:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:07Tucker Carlson?

  Let's get James Murdoch on the board.

• 1:17:09Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 1:17:09Tucker Carlson?

  He's a genius.

• 1:17:11Speaker 01

  So this is the bigger issue. And then what's even funny about Brendan, I mean, you almost feel bad for Dylan, you almost feel bad for Brendan because Kid Rock actually went on Rogan's show and essentially he had a big conversation with Brendan as well. And he was talking about how Kid Rock was making fun of him for the whole CBS interview he did. He was like, I don't get it, man. Like, why did you just get up there and you were like a puppet? And essentially, this Kid Rock's words and telling the story was like Brendan said he was coached. He was like, yeah, it was coached. I had to say what I had to say. And that's what's problematic. And again, this is where you come back to this fundamental, just like disconnect between the American sort of way and American business and the European way.

• 1:17:45Tucker Carlson?

  But it doesn't work. No one is served. So you have to ask, like, what actually is this? So the company's not served, its employees are not served, its consumers are not served. Poor Brendan, who's just like a hapless bystander to his own life, guzzling muzzle milk and hitting the elliptical, he's humiliated. And then the shareholders lose $2 billion a year. So like, who is winning here? And you've got to think that maybe this is part of a bigger play to destroy the West.

• 1:18:12Speaker 01

  I mean, I think-

• 1:18:12Tucker Carlson?

  Throwing that out there.

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  I mean, who's winning? It's, again, I think a lot of the board members who-

• 1:18:16Tucker Carlson?

  China's winning.

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  China's probably winning in this thing. I don't know if this is like as much of a, China is winning. I don't know if they have much to do with this. This is more of this, again, out of touch, European-

• 1:18:25Tucker Carlson?

  But all this stuff, the Black Lives Matter helped zero black people, except the ones who stole the money from Apple.

• 1:18:29Speaker 01

  Except the big lavish mansions that-

• 1:18:31Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly. No, but it didn't help black people. I'm all for helping, I'm all for helping everybody, okay? But it didn't help black people. It didn't help, you know, Kenosha, Wisconsin, which is destroyed and never will be rebuilt. Didn't help all the Hispanic families who live in Kenosha. It didn't help anybody, actually. It didn't help anybody. Trans. How many happy trans people are there? Zero. That does not help, actually. It just denies people grandchildren. It's, I don't know. It's hard to see who the winners are. Like, in an armed robbery, there's the victim, there's the liquor store owner, okay, he gets shot. But then the guy who takes his money gets the money.

• 1:19:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:08Tucker Carlson?

  So he wins. So like, I'm not endorsing that, of course, but- There's a logic to it, but some of the biggest social trends in the United States don't seem to have any winners. And that freaks me out.

• 1:19:19Speaker 01

  Well, but again, but I, but I think the winners are more of the, the Chinas.

• 1:19:22Tucker Carlson?

  Well, yeah.

• 1:19:23Speaker 01

  The, the, the, etc. Because I mean, if you almost think about, I, I mentioned this earlier, but the US was always exceptional. It's always been the city upon a hill that people want to go to. It's always been unique and distinct and different. And there've been, you know, it's always been radical ideas in the United States to have free speech and American capitalism and freedom of religion. These have all been radical ideas for a long time. And that's allowed us to become the most successful, prosperous, you name it, country. And I think that there's been ways that sort of the, the Europeans, the Chinese, others, they've been able to infiltrate that and try and rebalance. I mean, going into a, you know, the so-called like oppressor versus oppressed framework, like for the rest of the world, this US was always this, you know, oppressor type country. We're always oppressed. How do you rebalance? Well, you try and social engineer and you try and.

• 1:20:05Tucker Carlson?

  You get the country to kill itself.

• 1:20:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, that's the way that, that's essentially the way that you do it.

• 1:20:08Tucker Carlson?

  It does seem that way if you're thinking long-term. And by the way, I don't mean to blame China. I don't hate China. I respect China. And they're acting in what they think is their own interest, which I think is what countries ought to do. But, um, I'm not blaming them for, you know, Melissa Scoben Howard, or whatever her name is. Alyssa, sorry.

• 1:20:29Speaker 01

  I was gonna let you just keep going. Because I love everyone. Everyone's great. I'm not gonna correct it all.

• 1:20:34Tucker Carlson?

  The German lady from Harvard and the CIA guy who drinks muscle milk. I'm not blaming China for their personal inadequacies, their mediocrity, whatever. That's their fault. But, big picture, like it's just, like, what is going on here?

• 1:20:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, so I think that is what's, what's going on is that you have, obviously, you know, governments that are, that are antagonists towards the United States are trying to, I mean, China, Europe, etc., trying to kind of pull us back, tear us down. But even a lot of these other, um, you know, companies as well, um, unfortunately, just have a different view of what business should be. And I don't think it's gonna be good for the business units in the US.

• 1:21:10Tucker Carlson?

  It's bad for everybody. I was with someone the other day who knows Larry Fink really well, and I said, Boy, I think Larry Fink has really been damaging to the country, to the world. And this person said, you know, I feel sorry for Larry Fink. Why? Why do you feel sorry for him? Because he's the single unhappiest person I've ever met.

• 1:21:26Speaker 01

  I'm not surprised by that.

• 1:21:28Tucker Carlson?

  It's so weird. Like, what's the point in making billions of dollars if you're miserable?

• 1:21:32Speaker 01

  But here's the thing, because he doesn't have any principles. Because if you take a look at BlackRock, it's just been blowing in the wind over the last couple of years. When it was all about the ESG and stakeholder capitalism, we're going to hold that flag and we're going to carry it. But then as soon as people just with first principles think about saying, guys, you're violating your fiduciary obligation. Because I just asked you to make money for me, not do social engineering policies that are losing money for me. And so when all of a sudden people started pulling their money from them, they got pulled in front of Congress by a bunch of politicians. Now all of a sudden Larry Fink is backing away, says, I don't say ESG anymore. He pulled DEI off their website.

• 1:22:03Tucker Carlson?

  But why do all these people hate the United States? Like, the hostility you feel from someone like Larry Fink toward the US is like unmistakable. It's like you're mad at the United States, but you're American and you can only have done what you did in this country with all of our legal protections and all the freedoms that you have. Like, why declare war on your own country? And they all have.

• 1:22:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. It's just because he lines his own pockets along the way.

• 1:22:26Tucker Carlson?

  I guess, but there are lots of people who can be rich and patriotic too. You could even, I don't know, be unscrupulous in business and be patriotic.

• 1:22:32Speaker 01

  You know, you used to work at Fox in, in, you know, New York. A lot of people, literally, it's like, I wouldn't say I worked in Fox. Who's Kat Timp? She's been, she used to tell people she worked in the porn industry instead of saying Fox News in New York City.

• 1:22:46Tucker Carlson?

  I'm not going to comment on that.

• 1:22:49Speaker 01

  I mean, but I think especially when you're in New York, if you want to go to the right schools and go to the right parties and get your kids into this and that, like, you can't be patriotic in a lot of cases.

• 1:22:57Tucker Carlson?

  I know.

• 1:22:57Speaker 01

  And you can't stand up.

• 1:22:58Tucker Carlson?

  Of course. And I don't mean to single out Larry Fink. It sounds like he needs our prayers, not our scorn. But it's that whole leadership class, which is so angry, going back to, you know, Melissa Hindenburg or whatever her name is.

• 1:23:13Speaker 01

  Hindenburg one?

• 1:23:15Tucker Carlson?

  Sorry, whatever. The German girl from Harvard.

• 1:23:17Speaker 01

  I can't believe that hasn't been picked up, Melissa, the Hindenburg one. So I haven't heard that one.

• 1:23:21Tucker Carlson?

  No, I was thinking of Paul von Hindenburg, not the blimp.

• 1:23:24Speaker 01

  I thought you were thinking of the blimp.

• 1:23:26Tucker Carlson?

  The last president of Germany, the one who handed it to the Nazis, actually. No, people like that, and it's not just her, of course, it's an entire class of people who I, I've lived around my whole life, I know them and I know their attitudes and they're all like, they just hate the country. There's like a gut level contempt for the United States. And it's like, what did America ever do to you, actually? Give you a ton of opportunity, you made way more than you deserved. Your life is a lot easier than it would have been in any other place. What are you mad about? But they all feel that way.

• 1:23:57Speaker 01

  No, I agree. It's, it's almost you have to be apologetic about being here and enjoying.

• 1:24:01Tucker Carlson?

  But they worked to undermine it. They worked to wreck it. Like, what's America? It's a meritocracy. It's like, that's the whole promise of immigration, by the way. Immigration only works within a meritocracy. It's like, the smartest, most ambitious, fairest, most decent people around the world get to move here and just kick ass. Okay, everyone's for that. We're not gonna like move hundreds of thousands of Haitians into your neighborhood just to wreck it. Like, you can't do that.

• 1:24:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, I mean, the, the greatest sort of asset that we have in this country, it is the American dream. I mean, that is, that is the greatest asset why people want to move here, why people want to invest here, why people want to be here. And there's a lot of other people that want to tear down that American dream. They want to make you feel like it's not real.

• 1:24:39Tucker Carlson?

  But they're all Americans who want to. I just find it so strange if they took that destructive energy and focused it on our actual enemies, whoever those might be, you know, they could, we could get a lot done. That stuff is more dangerous than nuclear weapons.

• 1:24:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I think that the pendulum's swinging back. So we got a lot of people that have finally.

• 1:24:55Tucker Carlson?

  I hope that's right.

• 1:24:56Speaker 01

  You know, I think a lot of brave people, it's been amazing to see what's happened in Silicon Valley over the last year or two.

• 1:25:00Tucker Carlson?

  I agree.

• 1:25:00Speaker 01

  These are a lot of smart, bright people that were afraid to stick their neck out there. I mean, thank God for Elon that all of a sudden came around. And he gave people the, the ability to put their neck out there also.

• 1:25:12Tucker Carlson?

  And the fact that he represents or owns or runs or whatever his relationship is, companies that make things, physical things. That's why it's so sad to see it happen to AB, because it's like they actually make a product. You can hold in your hand.

• 1:25:23Speaker 01

  And, and this, they, I mean, and it's a great product. And whether you like alcohol or not like alcohol, I mean, Budweiser to some degree was the American dream in a bottle.

• 1:25:29Tucker Carlson?

  This is the famous Budweiser beer. We know of no other beer that costs so much to brew and age. Our exclusive Beechwood aging produces a taste, a drinkability you will find in no other beer at any price.

• 1:25:38Speaker 01

  You gotta be the only person who hasn't drank a beer in 25 years that. And recite that up from the bottle.

• 1:25:41Tucker Carlson?

  That's how much beer I drank.

• 1:25:42Speaker 01

  How many? Is that what it was?

• 1:25:44Tucker Carlson?

  For me, it was always a breakfast beverage. Yeah. I was never, you know, I probably should have worked there because I was never embarrassed. Well, I mean, I think Kevin, I quit drinking, but I was never embarrassed to drink in the morning ever. It never even occurred to me. I just grew up in a different world and I, I always have felt my whole life.

• 1:25:59Speaker 01

  The breakfast of champions back in the day.

• 1:26:00Tucker Carlson?

  If you're embarrassed to do something, don't do it.

• 1:26:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:03Tucker Carlson?

  And so I was never embarrassed. Like, I'd like a beer, please. I'd like a Bud Tallboy. I like a Bud Tallboy for breakfast with French toast. You know what I mean? Just kind of get you an even keel. And I, I've never had a Bud Light in my life, but I did think that Budweiser was like a pretty serviceable beer.

• 1:26:17Speaker 01

  It was. It's a great beer. Very serviceable beer. Great sort of Americana beer. And again, like the, the history of the company is amazing. It's almost intertwined with the history of the United States. It really started before the Civil War, which is crazy.

• 1:26:27Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I know.

• 1:26:27Speaker 01

  And there was a huge supporter in World War I, World War II, have Folds of Honor Foundation. I mean, hires thousands of, of veterans. And so like more long-term, I want the company to get back.

• 1:26:37Tucker Carlson?

  And it was intertwined with American political and labor history. I mean, August Bush, the third, who is still alive, knew Jimmy Hoffa. Not like post-prison, get murdered Jimmy Hoffa, but like labor leader Jimmy Hoffa.

• 1:26:51Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, definitely.

• 1:26:52Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, this was at the center. It was a huge employer. It was a builder of the middle class in this country.

• 1:26:58Speaker 01

  They built this distribution network, a 500 independent family-owned wholesalers across the country, which are amazing.

• 1:27:03Tucker Carlson?

  And they, all those families got rich, like everything.

• 1:27:05Speaker 01

  And everyone did incredibly well. And so I mean, more broadly, I, and I know a lot of the wholesalers and they're all upset about what happened the last couple of years. Cause they lost tons of their business. They had to fire.

• 1:27:14Tucker Carlson?

  But CIA guy still has his job?

• 1:27:15Speaker 01

  Yes, which is crazy. And it's, I mean, it's even funny as well. So this year he tried to, you know how beer on menus, it usually says domestic or import?

• 1:27:23Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:23Speaker 01

  And so he tried to reframe domestic beer as American beer, which sounds like a great idea. But if you're not an American-owned company, then where do you put Anheuser-Busch? Do you put them on the American beer or on the import beer? A lot of times the import, and I think that's one of the reasons they should actually either sell it back to the Bush family or sell it back to Warren Buffett.

• 1:27:40Tucker Carlson?

  You know, I think it was, I don't have any special knowledge beyond what's obvious, but I think the problem with these family-held companies, like a family summer house, there's just too many. Stakeholders, as you say, too many family members who want the money. And it's hard to keep them going for that reason.

• 1:27:56Speaker 01

  No, I mean, it is now. I mean, even in the Bush family, their credit, I mean, they got through four generations.

• 1:28:01Tucker Carlson?

  It's amazing. No, I'm not criticizing them at all. I'm just saying that at a certain point, the family gets really big.

• 1:28:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, they didn't own it anymore.

• 1:28:06Tucker Carlson?

  And there are certain members who want to run it and own it because it's their family legacy. It's their history. And there are certain members just like, I live in Aspen, send me the money.

• 1:28:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, you're right. So I mean, you got to find that right person. At some point, just nepotism just doesn't work and there's going to be somebody outside better. But I think that you can have actually US ownership, again, of the business. And whereas, excuse me, and as a wish in bed, it's a global company. They have operations in China and Africa and South America and everywhere. The US at this point is only about, I think, 20% of their revenue and maybe a quarter of their profits. So it actually to my, to me, it makes tons of sense. And the company will this year will do, I don't know, four and a half billion of called profits. So I think there's somebody like Warren Buffett could come and maybe he buys the thing for 30 to 40 billion dollars when he's sitting on 300 billion dollars of cash. And maybe all of a sudden you put actually, you give actual real authority to US leadership. So

• 1:28:52Tucker Carlson?

  And move it back to St. Louis.

• 1:28:54Speaker 01

  Move back to St. Louis. Move back to where it was.

• 1:28:56Tucker Carlson?

  Great town.

• 1:28:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, put its whole corporate headquarters back there, put it back in the Midwest somewhere. I think that's going to, that would make a lot of sense. Because otherwise you're going to continue to have a lot of competitors coming in and taking jobs and who knows, or give opportunities to folks like yourself. I mean, you're already going after the Zen folks with Alp. So.

• 1:29:12Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. The Stonewall brand. This is the non-Stonewall brand. It's just Alp, American lip pill. You can put it in your mouth. You don't have to worry about where it's been. It's good.

• 1:29:22Speaker 01

  Thank you. That was absolutely fascinating.

• 1:29:24Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:24Speaker 01

  I appreciate it.

• 1:29:24Tucker Carlson?

  Thank you very much. And then if you don't mind, just plug it at the end, but talk about all this in Last Call for Bud Light, which is the book that we just released on this, this past month. So I love people to go check it out.

• 1:29:34Speaker 01

  I know your editor, Paul Schwa, one of my favorite people.

• 1:29:36Tucker Carlson?

  Ah, he's great. Love Paul.

• 1:29:37Speaker 01

  He's the best.

• 1:29:38Tucker Carlson?

  You probably know Keith at Javelin as well.

• 1:29:39Speaker 01

  Certainly do.

• 1:29:40Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:41Speaker 01

  Great to see you.

• 1:29:42Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. Thanks, Tucker.

• 1:29:42Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:29:47Speaker 01

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