#349 - Nuclear Physicist May Have Solved How the Pyramids were Built | Max Zamilov

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Dr. Max Fomitchev-Zamilov is a scientist, physicist, entrepreneur, musician, poet, thinker, author, and founder of Maximus Energy Corporation. His latest research includes a Metrological study of predynastic Egyptian Stone Vessels where he concludes that some artifacts do in fact exhibit an astonishing level of precision on par or even exceeding that of contemporary machining. SPONSORS https://cornbreadhemp.com/danny - Use code DANNY for 30% off your first order. https://shopify.com/dannyjones - Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial today. https://stopboxusa.com - Use code for 10% off your ENTIRE order + BOGO on the StopBox Pro. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off EPISODE LINKS @MaximusEnergy https://maximus.energy FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Why Max left Russia 08:45 - Developing nuclear technology from scratch 15:11 - "Free energy" & anti-gravity machines 24:33 - Building a nuclear reactor at home 36:42 - Ancient Egypt + sound physics 41:23 - Analysis of Egyptian cut granite 48:48 - Explanation for granite in the King's Chamber of the Great Pyramid 01:00:42 - The Great Pyramid was a space communication device 01:09:26 - Changes in the earth's crust & previous extinction events 01:22:07 - Ancient infrastructure in Russia 01:33:37 - Megalithic sites in Russia 01:48:13 - Egyptians & advanced nuclear technology 02:03:43 - Evidence of nuclear machines in ancient Egypt 02:13:17 - Nuclear isotopes on Mars & breakaway civilizations 02:18:21 - How ancient Egyptians moved huge stones 02:27:49 - Static electricity is key to anti-gravity 02:31:15 - How Egyptian vases were made 02:44:40 - Most Egyptian vases are fake Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:37Danny Jones?

  All right, Max. Ben Van Kirkwick introduced us. He said that you guys have been working together on some of this vase stuff.

• 0:43Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 0:44Danny Jones?

  And then I dug a little deeper and realized that you're a Russian nuclear scientist building a nuclear reactor in your basement. I'm wondering why the hell the FBI hasn't got your ass already.

• 0:54Speaker 02

  Well, they tried.

• 0:58Danny Jones?

  Are you really building a nuclear reactor in your house?

• 1:00Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 1:01Danny Jones?

  And you say this on public, out in the public, and the FBI doesn't like come knocking on your door?

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, they came, they took my phone and shit, you know.

• 1:10Danny Jones?

  How long have you been in the US?

• 1:11Speaker 02

  Since 97.

• 1:13Danny Jones?

  Oh, my God. Okay, so for people who don't know you, like, so you're like a nuclear physicist? What are you?

• 1:20Speaker 02

  Well, it's a good question. I have many hats that I wear. And I wanted to be a physicist all my life. You know, I thought I was born with a God-given talent for physics, and that's the track I kind of chose for myself throughout life. It didn't quite work out the way I envisioned it, but maybe it's for better. But, you know, long story short, when the Soviet Union collapsed, I kind of realized it's hard to pursue physics in Soviet Union when physicists are selling sausages in the streets just to make a living. So I decided to go into computers instead. And I graduated from Moscow Institute of Electronic Engineering with masters in computers engineering.

• 2:03Speaker 02

  And I moved to United States to work as a software engineer. And America is a country of dreams. You know, in America, you can be anything you want. That's why, you know, people come to this country. And I thought, well, maybe I can be a physicist after all. So I started working on my theory of gravity. Because, you know, I thought I'll show everyone how smart I am by proving Einstein run. Or, you know, solving some of the mysteries of dark matter and dark energy. And I did, you know, write a couple of good papers, but I couldn't publish them. And I went to a conference to meet a bunch of other physicists. You know, my peers, the people I cited, you know, people whose research I read. And I was just blown away by how repulsive those people were. It was like a bunch of nerds. Everyone wanted to be the smartest person in the room.

• 2:48Speaker 02

  And nobody cared about the truth. And that when I realized, oh shit, you know, science isn't about truth. You know, academic science is about, you know, prestige, is about, you know, grants. You know, your standing, your reputation. Nobody gave a shit about how universe works. So I thought, well, not a chance in hell I want to be a physicist in under in this circumstances. Because I don't want to associate, you know, with people like that. But I ended up working for Penn State anyhow. Because I was hired to teach software engineering. So while I was at Penn State, I got a taste of academia and how it worked. And I was very happy because, you know, I wasn't tenure track. Meaning I didn't have to participate in the rat race where.

• 3:29Speaker 02

  Because I don't know how much you're familiar with with the way academia works. You are, you know, when you are, let's say, a tenure track professor at a university. You are there for the benefit of the university. So you need to bring grant grant money in to feed this, you know, bureaucratic monster. And that's how you ranked, you know, that's how your performance is measured, you know, how much money you bring. Nobody cares, you know, what research you do, what, you know, mysteries you uncover, you know, what discoveries you make, it's how much money you bring. And I was so happy I wasn't part of it, you know, I was just teaching, I loved my students. And I really got to meet some, some really exciting, you know, people, you know, my colleagues who worked there. And everybody wanted to do research so bad, but nobody could, because,

• 4:14Speaker 02

  you know, you could get money for boring shit. And really interesting stuff, you know, there is no money for it. So I realized, well, if I want to make, you know, my mark in the world, I gotta leave the university. And I gotta do something outside, because universities exist for another purpose. And that was also another kind of stint in my life. I'm also a musician, or used to be a musician. So that was the time when I was better known as Ultramax, because I produced electronic music, and I made CDs, vinyl records, my music was on the radio. And I had three shows at Penn State. My inaugural was like fifteen hundred people showed up for the concert. And I was thinking, what am I gonna do? I'm gonna do music for the rest of my life, or am I gonna be like a physicist or engineer? And then, you know,

• 4:56Speaker 02

  one day I wake up and I feel no interest in music. It was like, you know, a cord was cut. And, you know, to this day, I kind of reflect back on it. And I wonder, is it because, you know, when you try to do your hobby, to turn your hobby into business, it totally like changes? Because, you know, when you look like centuries back, you know, the way science developed, it was a hobby of, you know, some individual, Archimedes or Newton, you know, they all had jobs. And this, science was a vocation, you know, they pursued it because they could not not to pursue it, right? And when you are, you know, doing something as a business, oh,

• 5:39Speaker 02

  you gotta sell tickets, you know, you gotta manage the musicians, you know, you gotta organize the show. It just kills it. So I think maybe that's, you know, what killed it for me. So the decision was made, you know, I figure, all right, well, if I don't care about music, like yesterday I cared for it immensely, and today I don't, then I'll do engineering. So I started my first startup, which was devoted to the nuclear fusion. And I did have some, you know, friends, and friends of a friend to put in money for the startup. And we quickly realized, oh, we don't have enough money for fusion. So what can we do instead? And instead, we chose to, believe it or not, work on heavy crude oil upgrading. And that's kind of the funny pattern in my life. I tend to start

• 6:21Speaker 02

  various projects from scratch, and I often start, and I don't know nothing about it, but I'll learn about it. And at the end, I'm like sufficiently experienced to, you know, to compete in this space. So the crude oil upgrading project was a success, but it was a lesson in another like part of life.

• 6:40Danny Jones?

  Crude oil upgrading project?

• 6:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:42Danny Jones?

  How does that work?

• 6:43Speaker 02

  Basically, in Canada, they produce bitumen. You know what bitumen is, right? It's the stuff they put on road.

• 6:50Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, this real sticky, gooey stuff. And it's practically solid. So the problem that, you know, how do you transport it? So there is this Keystone Pipeline that goes to the United States from Canada.

• 7:04Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  Which there are actually two pipelines. One pushes this bitumen, which is diluted with gasoline, and the other returns gasoline back to Canada. So about half of the pipeline is this gas flowing back and forth because you need a carrier to move this, otherwise, you know, solid material. And I figured out a way how to reduce the viscosity of this bitumen where it flows on its own. And I've built a miniature petrochemical plant and Shell and some other major oil companies, you know, got away from what I was doing and they visited and they really liked the technology and they wanted, you know, to buy it and bring it to Canada. And I thought, oh, I'm gonna be rich, you know, that's that's my moment in life. And what happens?

• 7:48Speaker 02

  2015 happens and the oil price crashes from $200 per barrel to like $40 per barrel. And that wiped all of my, you know, customers, like overnight, all of the like business opportunity was liquidated. And I'm like shit, you know, you can do everything right. You know, you can develop the technology, you know, you can build it. You know, you can bring this in a major oil companies and start them salivate over it. And then your business opportunity evaporates and nothing matters. So that was in a pretty big life lesson to me that really threw me into like a spiral. Because I've never like failed before up until that point. So I thought I was invincible, you know, I could do anything and and this happens.

• 8:30Speaker 02

  So I was, of course, you know, pretty painful experience. So I shifted gears again, I said, okay, I'm gonna move to Florida and I'm gonna do something else. I started building houses. You know, it's a fun activity, I'll you know, just work outdoors with my hands. I will not use my brain. Oh, my brain will rest and my soul will recuperate, you know, while I work with my hands. And I worked on a beautiful project on an island, you know, I was renovating an island house. I was taking a boat to it. I really fell in love with Florida lifestyle, so you know, take a boat in the morning. You know, you get to this island, you know, where you work in this tropical paradise. So I was working as a carpenter, basically, you know, coming back. I, you know, I freaking loved it.

• 9:12Speaker 02

  But after doing it, you know, for a few years, I thought maybe it's time for me to go back to what I always wanted to do. And that was, you know, nuclear science. Sorry for the long kind of story. But I circled back and I thought, well, you know, before, when I started my company, I hired people to do work for me. And that was good and bad. Good is because, you know, you delegate stuff. But bad is because I thought people were good at stuff that they were doing. And what I've learned, you know, one of my experiences was that, you know, people pretended to know things and they didn't. So I thought, okay, well, I'm gonna learn everything, you know, there is to learn about nuclear science. And I'm gonna do it in all myself. That's why, you know, the knowledge is concentrated in one place.

• 9:57Speaker 02

  And I will know like all of the answers to all of the questions. And very quickly I realized that, oh, there is no hardware, suitable hardware, because a lot of nuclear stuff is archaic, developed in the 60s. You know, there's big power supplies, you know, weird blocks, you know, nothing really meshes together. And of course, you can buy state-of-the-art stuff, but then it's a small fortune, like every piece you purchase is like hundred thousand dollars, you know. I'm not that rich. So, okay, I'm going to develop, you know, the hardware myself. So I developed hardware for neutron and gamma detection. In nuclear science, everything is about radiation. It's, you know, radiation is your mark of what's happening.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  How do you know that, you know, what's going on in your reactor? It's radiation. So you measure radiation, and I, you know, built hardware to measure radiation. And I made it user-friendly, and I wrote software for it, because I'm software engineer. And I realized, oh, you know, shit, other people want it too. So I started, you know, selling it, and my business kind of grew from that. So Maximus Energy is my company, and that's why I offer, you know, this equipment that I make for sale.

• 11:05Danny Jones?

  So you make, you manufacture the nuclear equipment?

• 11:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 11:09Danny Jones?

  And who do you sell it to?

• 11:10Speaker 02

  Universities, like all major universities in America pretty much bought it. MIT, you know, Texas Tech, Purdue. So I know a lot of people who work on nuclear science, and some buy it, you know, for their research, others buy it, you know, for their students to teach them, you know, about radiation detection, you know, about neutrons, about, you know, gamma radiation, things of that nature. And what I've also used it for, obviously, is for my own research, because that was the motivation. So the, you know, selling of the equipment kind of became a way to fund the research, because, you know, research takes money, right? So you need to buy supplies and chemicals and shit.

• 11:50Speaker 02

  And I was happy to realize that people, you know, wanted to have my equipment, because it helped me fund my research. So I started running, you know, these experiments that I couldn't run before, because before, you know, I didn't know anything about vacuum equipment, about, you know, plasma, you know, about neutron sources. So I learned all of that and started running my own experiments. And that's kind of another, I would say...

• 12:16Speaker 02

  Key part of my life, like throughout my life, you know, like you, I'm very open minded person. So when somebody tells me something exciting, I tend to believe it. Like, like this vase project, or you know, ancient aliens, or things of that nature, you know, I tend to believe these things. But because I'm a, you know, scientifically oriented, or engineering, you know, leaning person, I usually verify things that I believe in. Because, you know, to me, what makes life, you know, the most exciting is learning, you know, learning, you know, the truth about the world. Because, you know, when you know the truth about the

• 12:57Speaker 02

  world, it makes your life easier. You know, you know, gravity pulls you down, right? You know what happens if you walk off the cliff, right? And if you don't, you know, your life is miserable. So I kind of feel, on intuitive level, that that's what curiosity is, you know, you want to understand life better, on like, all levels. And, and when somebody tells you something wonderful, you have a potential to expand your understanding. But, you know, do you believe it at face value, or do you really like sink your teeth in it, and research it, and dig in, and realize whether it's true or not? So throughout my life, even like before I started my company, and when I was, you know, still teaching

• 13:40Speaker 02

  at Penn State, and even before that, I was reading, you know, other people's papers and books, and taking their ideas seriously. And for a long time, I was going to Russia, to my alma mater, where my father in law has a lab. And I was working, like every summer in his lab, trying other people's ideas.

• 13:59Danny Jones?

  What kind of lab?

• 14:01Speaker 02

  He has a lab devoted to high temperature superconductors. So it's, it's pretty badass. But to me, it was like an electrical engineering lab.

• 14:12Danny Jones?

  In St. Petersburg?

• 14:14Speaker 02

  Not in Moscow.

• 14:15Danny Jones?

  In Moscow?

• 14:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:16Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 14:17Speaker 02

  So we were still living in Oklahoma, I think, at the time, but then, you know, we moved to Pennsylvania. But I was going there, like every summer.

• 14:23Danny Jones?

  What year?

• 14:25Speaker 02

  Oh, maybe 15 years ago.

• 14:27Danny Jones?

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• 15:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'll tell you one anecdote. Like, one of my summer trips to that place was I read a book by Joseph Newman, who purported to have developed, not exactly like a perpetual motion machine, but, you know, pretty close. It was called Newman's Motor. And the idea was you have this, you know, giant coil, like 20 miles of wire, of copper wire. So, of course, you know, I started by winding the coil, right? So, you know, for a couple of days, I was just turning, turning the crank, you know, winding the damn coil, you know, which was like 50 pounds, because, you know, just huge. And then you have this magnet inside, and then, you know, it turns. Yeah, and there was this commutator.

• 16:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, and the trick was, you know, the way you turn this magnet and the way commutator connects and disconnects the magnets, so it was generating some high-frequency current pulses. And then, you know, Newman says, "All right, well, when you hook up the astroscope, you see this pulse, the current pulse. There are actually two pulses. One pulse is the power in to the coil, and then the other is power from the coil. And when you look on the astroscope, on the old analog astroscope, you could see that the input pulse is barely registering, meaning the thing draws very little power. But the output pulse is huge. It's like, you know, gigantic, and it's all that you see. Right. And then there was some point, you know, when I finally assembled everything, and I see this on the astroscope, so like, "Damn, you know, this guy was right, because I see

• 17:11Speaker 02

  exactly what he described." Mm-hmm. But, you know, you take it to the next step. If that is the case, yeah, yeah, you got it. It wasn't quite large in my case. Mm-hmm. Uh, but it was, you know, it was substantial. But, you know, if you get more power out of it, it means it should run on its own, right? So what I do, I hook up capacitors to it, because I know it will charge the capacitors, and then I can loop it back to where I can, you know, unplug it from the receptacle, and it will run, you know, on its own power. Perpetually. Perpetually, basically, yes. So one day I come in, you know, I hook up these capacitors, you know, I get it going, and I see it starts accelerating.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  And that's, you know, what you expect when, when you generate energy, you know, out of nothing. I see it accelerates. So I slowly unplug it, but my plug was like split, two wires, you know, it was like very makeshift. So I pull one wire, and the thing doesn't stop. And I'm like, "Wow, you know, it's already disconnected, you know, I disconnected from, from the phase, you know, the electric power, you have phase and ground, so I disconnected it, you know, from the phase." But the thing still accelerates. I called my father-in-law and said, "Look, you know, are you seeing what I'm saying? You know, you seeing this, this telescope pulses? Yeah, you know, you seeing the thing runs on a single wire and it keeps accelerating?" So, yeah. So he patted me on the shoulder and, you know, gave me this patronizing smile.

• 18:40Speaker 02

  I said, "Well, you know, keep looking at it." And I'm like, "He, ah, I'm gonna come back to Penn State. I'm gonna present this shit. It's real, you know, we're gonna change the world." So for a couple of days, I was like, "I'm on drugs, you know, I feel this." Because it's exactly like he described it. And one day, I'm, "Oh, I still have this ground wire in it. So what happens if I unplug it?" So I unplug the ground wire and this thing slowly decelerates to a stop. I'm like, "Shit, what's going on?" So I start digging into it some more. And I realize, every time you have AC power anywhere, you have induced electricity. Because power lines, you know, they generate magnetic fields and these magnetic

• 19:25Speaker 02

  fields create induced power in any, you know, conductor. Especially if you have ground. So you will have this induced power from your power line in the ground. Okay. It's called ground loop, basically. And, and this is a common problem when your grounding is poor. Because, you know, very good ground, all of that, you know, just goes into ground without registering. But if your ground has some resistance in it, you will see this, like, small power variations on your ground. And that's what was powering in a human's engine, in my case. So it was drawing power from the ground and, and the ground was inductively coupled to the, you know, power in the building. So it wasn't,

• 20:09Speaker 02

  you know, running on its own energy. And then I realized that. I realized that his astrophysician wasn't correct. There were some, you know, high-frequency oscillations that didn't really register on print. But, you know, if you zoom in on the scope, you see. And if you integrate the power, you know, there is no power. It's just an illusion.

• 20:29Speaker 02

  And that was a very important lesson because I learned that, you know, two things happen. People either lie on purpose, you know, when they, you know, come up with this wonderful ideas. And they lie on purpose because they want attention or because they want to defraud investors. Yeah, and some people, sometimes people are just fools, you know, they don't have enough training, enough expertise to really know what's happening. Yeah, and I would say there is also a third kind is when people don't have training, but then they're not motivated to go deeper into the problem because then it destroys the narrative or destroys the idea. Right, right.

• 21:14Speaker 02

  And unfortunately, that's a pretty big sociological problem, especially in the case of inventors. Because as an inventor, you know, you want investor, you know, to fund your project. And that's why you're not motivated to find flaws in your design. Because then investor would look at it and say, oh, well, maybe I should have not funded. Right. But then it doesn't help you to build a product. And unfortunately, like most of my colleagues in Russia are that way, you know, they have investors here and there that give them money or donate money and and they present their results and, you know, I scan their results like diagonally. Because, you know, I looked at so many results so many times, I know where the flaws are.

• 21:58Speaker 02

  And I see those flaws. And when I mention to them, they kind of lower their eyes and switch the subject. So I've become, you know, a little cynical about this whole situation. Just because of the, you know, every problem I looked and I was able to punch a hole. And that's why, you know, about five years ago, I said, you know, enough, I'm not gonna look at Newman engines or someone's anti-gravity device, I'm gonna work on my own stuff. Anti-gravity device? Well, believe it or not, I worked on those too. Wow, they got those in Russia? Of course, yeah, it's the biggest source. Commercial available off internet, you know, you can purchase a kit.

• 22:41Speaker 02

  Well, I'm being cynical, but it's for real. You know, if you believe the internet, you know, let's say if you are a believer like me and you do not scrutinize. And a friend of mine actually bought one of those units. Because there is a like young guy on internet is selling his like anti-gravity kit.

• 22:59Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 22:59Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 23:01Danny Jones?

  I wasn't aware of this.

• 23:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, and he bought it and he built one against my advice. And of course, it doesn't work. And you know, it's pretty clear that everything was staged and made look. But but the thing is, you know, some people have better stories than others. And some stories I believe in because, well, you got to believe in something, right? So we don't know everything about the world. So I do believe in anti-gravity and we can talk about what I believe in it. But it doesn't mean that, you know, whoever shows you like a flying saucer. It's like really flying. It probably means, you know, he's got some wires or some, you know. You know how to make films. So I'm pretty sure if you look at at his reels, you'll know, you know, the techniques he used.

• 23:47Speaker 02

  Because I talked to another guy, he's also like in filmmaking. And he was able to tell me, you know, those were like textbook techniques that that he used, you know, to go off the frame and do some.

• 23:58Danny Jones?

  What are you talking about specifically? What film? Or what video?

• 24:02Speaker 02

  I don't remember the guy's name.

• 24:05Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 24:06Speaker 02

  It's some Russian guy and he sells this like flying saucers that.

• 24:11Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 24:12Speaker 02

  He purports to be of anti-gravitic type and he shows demonstration. So he launches it, it's flying. And then he sells the kit.

• 24:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 24:21Speaker 02

  And people buy the kit and trying to recreate and of course, it doesn't work.

• 24:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 24:26Speaker 02

  And I'm thinking, you know, science is hard enough, you know, why do you do it? And I understand, you know, why people do it because they want to make money and whatnot. But for someone who is like searching for truth, it doesn't help. Because it creates noise and, you know, confounds the situation.

• 24:45Speaker 02

  So, you know, that's why about, you know, five years ago, I started working on on my own ideas, you know, which involve nuclear fusion and I've built a reactor at home, you know, which I'm currently developing and then here we are, you know, talking about it. And you just gotta, you know, gotta believe in yourself.

• 25:04Danny Jones?

  So you built, why did you build a nuclear reactor in your home?

• 25:06Speaker 02

  Well, because I.

• 25:08Danny Jones?

  Is that legal?

• 25:09Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 25:09Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  Absolutely. It is funny how a lot of nuclear science is not only legal in the United States, a lot of licenses are compulsory. For example, I can buy a lot of radioactive isotopes and they're mailed to me in ordinary mail. And sometimes they're not even like labeled because it's all regulated by activity. If a certain isotope has so little activity to where it's like beyond harmless, you don't even have to label it. If it's like within certain range of activities, you just label it as like potentially hazardous. If it has a lot of activity, you know, you put another label. And if it's substantial activity, you might need to get a license. But some licenses are compulsory in the sense you apply for them, you know, they give it to you.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  So I have some sources that were licensed, you know, on that basis.

• 25:59Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  So it's not really, you know, the research wise, you know, if you do research on your own, there is not a lot of red tape and that's why, you know, I had to quit university to do it. Because if you do at university, there are those a lot more red tape.

• 26:13Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  Because, you know, health regulation, radiation safety regulation. And even though, you know, we're never approaching, you know, the dangerous limits. Because, you know, one thing about nuclear science, unless you have like a power plant sized reactor, it's all like barely registered. That's why you need detectors to detect it. You know, nothing glows, you know, nothing is hot to the touch.

• 26:34Danny Jones?

  You don't have the demon gore in your building?

• 26:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, basically, you don't, yes. So it's like research purpose is harmless, but at a university is just crazy amount of stuff you need to go to get that done.

• 26:48Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 26:48Speaker 02

  So I'm very happy that, you know, I can do it and without, you know, violating anything.

• 26:52Danny Jones?

  So the reason that you decided to build this was to measure these ancient Egyptian artifacts?

• 26:58Speaker 02

  No, not really. I wanted to build the.

• 27:02Speaker 02

  Power generating reactor. Okay. So my end goal was to design. You know that fusion is a hot topic now, right? So everybody, there are a bunch of like companies that pursue nuclear fusion, right? Mm hmm. Uh, because the idea is that the next, you know, next power source will be fusion. And whether it's true or not, it's a different story, but that's, you know, the tendency. So I thought, okay, well, I'm going to build my own fusion reactor. But everybody is like multi-billion dollar installation that size of the commercial building. You know, because that's the conventional approach to nuclear power is. And I thought, well, I can do it cheaper and smaller and will fit on a desktop.

• 27:47Speaker 02

  So it's not going to be a billion dollar reactor. It's going to be like a hundred thousand dollar reactor. And maybe instead of producing like a gigawatt of power, it's going to produce hundred kilowatt. But you know, hundred kilowatt is enough to run a house. You know, you can run your AC on it. Or you can put it in a vehicle or maybe you can scale it up, put it in a truck or, you know, freight train, you know, something like that. So I decided to build, you know, that's my interest, you know, my engineering interest is to build a commercial fusion power generator, you know, that's small, compact and inexpensive. And in order to do it, I had to pursue like different approach. Because everyone's approach is either magnetic confinement or inertial confinement.

• 28:33Speaker 02

  And without going into too much detail, uh, these approaches are technically challenging. So you need hundred PhDs or maybe a thousand PhDs to work on a project like that. Because nature doesn't want to do it. It's unnatural in the sense it happens in the stars. But you know, what's the difference between the star and something that you build the size, right? So the reason it can happen on a.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  Stellar scale is the size of the star. So the gravity holds it together, it works. So if you want to do it like in a commercial scale and build a power plant, you need to overcome this physics that's missing. And that's, you know, where hundred PhDs come in because it's not a an easy process to do. And that's why it's hundred billion dollars. And every year we're promised it's only like 10 or 15 years away. And it's been like 10 or 15 years away for the past 40 years. It's a running joke in the industry. So I thought, you know, we need a different approach to it. And because my background is in ultrasonics, I figured that I could use sound to make fusion work. And that's not my, you know, idea, you know, somebody else.

• 29:46Danny Jones?

  Sound to make fusion.

• 29:48Speaker 02

  To make fusion, yes. I think the idea was originally proposed by, what's the guy's name? Like in the late 70s. My memory is not cooperating. Maybe I'll remember the name later. But, you know, a researcher in the seventies proposed it and patented it back then. And then.

• 30:09Danny Jones?

  You're talking about the sound fusion idea.

• 30:12Speaker 02

  And, you know.

• 30:13Danny Jones?

  Maybe you can find it, Steve.

• 30:14Speaker 02

  Commonly used term is sono fusion.

• 30:16Danny Jones?

  Sono fusion. Oh, wow.

• 30:19Speaker 02

  Yes, Flynn, exactly.

• 30:21Danny Jones?

  Hugh Flynn?

• 30:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, in the seventies, right. So he patented in the seventies. And the idea is, you know how sound can push things?

• 30:29Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  So if you concentrate sound in a spot, you can compact matter to where it's going to be hot enough for in a nuclear fusion to take place. Yeah. And from, from that, you know, basic arrangement, it makes perfect sense because that's what, you know, inertial confinement is. In inertial confinement, scientists use lasers to radiate a fusion target. And those lasers, you know, compact the fusion target. But, you know, Flynn figured, well, I'll use sound for this purpose. And later, I think in early 2000s, another researcher by name of Telly Arkan, who was at Oak Ridge National Labs at the time,

• 31:14Speaker 02

  actually published a paper in Science that was explosive because he said, well, I got it to work. So he took Flynn's idea.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  And he basically showed, sure, it works. And he got hired by Purdue because it was a big deal. It's like a new avenue to do fusion. Because before that, it was inertial confinement, magnetic confinement, and now we have sonofusion. And capital cost was like a fraction, you know, just a tiny amount of money you need to make a sonofusion reactor versus, let's say, plasma. So at Purdue, unfortunately, when it happens often in science, the interest of different research groups collided and a scandal erupted. Basically, his research was threatening another research funding.

• 32:05Speaker 02

  So the representatives of this other group, I think it was like Princeton Plasma Physics, they came and asked him to hold the publication. And he didn't because he was afraid that somebody else would beat him to it. And the people said, look, you know, if you're not going to hold your publication, we may not get our funding. You know, could you just hold it and then, you know, we get our funding and we'll support you? And he was foolish enough not to, so they took his vengeance on him. And they basically discredited his research. And it's a long story. It's called sonofusion.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  I wanted to say sonofusion confusion, but it was some other term, you know, used in the industry. You remember the cold fusion debacle and then the sonofusion? And, you know, part of, part of the problem is not so much, you know, the research was problematic. It's like human factor, you know, people fight over money, you know, people fight over prestige, people fight over ideas. So the bottom line is because of that scandal, you know, Talyarken was deprived of his funding. He was disallowed to have students, you know, he couldn't be fired because, you know, once you're a teenager, you know, you're immune from being let go. But he couldn't do any research, so his life was ruined. But I believe, you know, his ideas were correct, so I wanted to build on them, you know, I

• 33:31Speaker 02

  started not exactly where he left off, but I incorporated a lot of, of the ideas that he put in. Into his design and added, you know, my own ideas. And about three years ago, I detected neutrons. That's, that's how you know that you've got your reaction, you know, without your house blowing up. You know, one of your nuclear detector starts reporting counts.

• 33:54Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  And, um, you know, main signature for a nuclear reactor is neutrons. So neutron counts tells you whether your reactor is working or how many counts, meaning how efficiently it's working.

• 34:07Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 34:07Speaker 02

  So I started registering, you know, massive amounts of counts. And, um, I, I basically demonstrated, you know, the proof of concept that my idea worked. And I wrote a paper and published it in Nature Scientific Reports last year. And it became like one of the top downloaded papers, you know, in the top 10% uh, in the journal. You know, which is, uh, created a lot of interest in of other people, you know, reaching out to me and asking me about my research. And, and now I have a partner who lives here in, uh, in Venice. He is, uh,

• 34:44Speaker 02

  my Russian compatriot. He, he was following, you know, my research for a while and he finally came in to, to me and say, hey, okay, well, let's do something in your commercial, let me help you, you know, in your research. So we formed a company recently called Maximus Fusion Systems. And we're going to focus on trying to push this research further, you know, towards commercialization. Because, you know, when I was working at it was more like a research project.

• 35:09Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  And, uh, and now with him and maybe with a third person coming in, we are hoping to, to become more like a venture where this is not just about research, but the goal is to produce a product at the end of this, uh, track and it will be this, you know, desktop based in nuclear fusion power reactor that you can put in a car, in a truck, or maybe in a ship. So it will be like a smaller scale system.

• 35:34Danny Jones?

  If you've ever shopped online, chances are you've purchased something from a website powered by Shopify. It's easy to spot by the purple shop pay button. That's what we use for our merch store. That purple button has all your payments and shipping info, so you don't have to track down. Your card or hope that your browser remembered all your payment info. There's a reason why so many businesses use Shopify and that's because they make it incredibly easy to run and start your own business. It's the business behind the business that really matters and that's where Shopify excels with convenient tools and workflows. Shop Pay has the best converting checkout on the planet, meaning fewer abandoned carts and way more sales. That's a game changer. You can spread your brand's word with their built in marketing and email tools. Don't want to build your own page? Shopify has hundreds of beautiful, ready to go templates to express your brand and

• 36:18Danny Jones?

  forget the code, like Daylight Computer, whose website is absolutely gorgeous. So if you've got a product, a dream and a drive to make it happen, Shopify is the platform that helps you do it with ease. Because businesses that sell, sell more with Shopify. If you want less carts abandoned, it's time for you to head on over to Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com/DannyJones. Again, it's Shopify.com/DannyJones to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com/DannyJones. It's linked down below. Now back to the show. And so the, the idea that you can actually detect neutrons with your reactor means that it works and you can produce energy with the thing that you created.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 37:03Danny Jones?

  And have you applied this to anything?

• 37:07Speaker 02

  No, not, not yet.

• 37:08Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 37:09Speaker 02

  But I was going to, because there is a connection here, you know, with, with Egypt, right? And my wife Veronica, she always kind of said, well, how, how the pyramids were made, you know, you gotta look into pyramids. And she kept nagging me about it and I was dismissing it. And then finally, you know, I got to watch the videos and that's how I came across in a band from Kirkwick.

• 37:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 37:35Speaker 02

  And watched a bunch of his videos.

• 37:36Danny Jones?

  Like the power plant, the power plant theory from Chris Dunn and all that stuff.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:40Danny Jones?

  And it's crazy.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  But, you know, when I started watching those videos and soaking in, you know, those ideas, they started like meshing with my own thinking about, you know, nuclear physics, about sound, because you know, sound was my background. So they mentioned in sound and standing waves and how those waves interact. And I started thinking, well, this makes sense. You know, this, this makes just so much sense. I started watching these videos obsessively.

• 38:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Well, Chris Dunn was an aerospace engineer before he got interested in the pyramids. And then he was looking at them, looking at them from the inside, looking at the diagrams and like, something just struck him that told him like, look, this thing's a machine. And coming from a person who has been trained in engineering and building things that are supposed to be functional, it's just super compelling that he was drawn to that and drawn to come up with that theory, that power plant theory, which he's revised in his new book. But it's always really cool to see people from outside disciplines, outside of like Egyptology, people who are interested in energy or mechanics or engineering and stuff

• 38:52Danny Jones?

  to actually take an interest in this stuff and, and to talk about it and explain what they think.

• 38:57Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And that's why, you know, I kind of always liked ancient history. Mainly due to the fact that there is a big group in Russia called Laboratory for Alternative History. I'm sure you've heard of them.

• 39:11Danny Jones?

  In Russia?

• 39:11Speaker 02

  In Russia, yeah. It's like an enthusiast ran community and they go on expeditions and they, they do science. And I think science should belong to citizens, to enthusiasts, to amateurs. I don't really like, you know, the idea of academic professional science because until 20th century, all scientists were amateurs. You know, they all had jobs elsewhere. Some were, you know, just independently wealthy to where they didn't have a, have a job, but most had a job, you know, for God's sake, Einstein had a job, but that patent clerk. So I think it's the natural state of science, of affairs. Yes, that's them.

• 39:53Speaker 02

  Is when you are just driven by your curiosity. And, and that's what that group is, you know, they're driven by curiosity. So they put out a lot of videos where they showed how a lot of those ancient structures, you know, pyramids or, you know, Peruvian megalithic walls. They just don't make sense from the standpoint of primitive.

• 40:19Speaker 02

  Civilizations that they are ascribed to. And I really saw, you know, the idea, you know, behind, behind this statement. And as an engineer, you know, I understand what it takes to build things, right? So if somebody shows you a hundred ton block and they tell, tell you that, you know, a horse and a donkey moved it, or, you know, a couple of people who were basically naked and no shoes moved it. It kind of strains credulity, you know, I don't want to say it's impossible, but, you know, you scratch your head and you say like, really? You know, we, we cannot do it. So that, that really sold me, you know, to this idea. So then when I came across Ben's videos, that was just like icing on the cake, you know,

• 41:04Speaker 02

  jet fuel to the fire. So I was very, you know, excited to reach out to Ben. And I'm glad that he actually responded and he came, you know, he visited me in Naples, Florida.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  Did he tell you that story?

• 41:19Danny Jones?

  I think he might've told me that the first time he came down here to do my podcast, I think he mentioned that he was going to see somebody in Naples.

• 41:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was me.

• 41:27Danny Jones?

  Okay, now it's all coming together.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Super exciting because um, part of my business, and I don't only, you know, make scientific equipment, also, you know, repairing and refurbishing.

• 41:38Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  And occasionally I repair and refurbish electron microscopes. So when, when he came, I actually had a working electron microscope. I do have one now, but you know, it was a different one back then. And he brought some samples of, of this uh, stone vessels and we stuck them in the microscope and it was super exciting to study them. Because this laboratory of alternative history, they did similar studies and they reported that they found traces of unusual metals in their samples. Their findings were kind of uh,

• 42:16Speaker 02

  Strange. So on one hand, they said most samples were bare, you know, nothing on them. But on a few, you know, they found some interesting metals.

• 42:23Danny Jones?

  What kind of samples? What are you talking about? Were these vase samples?

• 42:26Speaker 02

  No, those were just granite samples from-

• 42:29Danny Jones?

  Just chunks of granite?

• 42:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, that they somehow acquired from their trips to Egypt.

• 42:34Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 42:35Speaker 02

  And that's the thing that I would be critical about, you know, when you do science, it's important to say how you acquired a sample, you know, where you got it from, how you, you know, detached it, how you handled it. Because, you know, when you use an electron microscope, you're looking for trace contaminants. And if you contaminated it in the process of handling it, you know, what good your analysis is, right? But, you know, when Ben visited, you know, we didn't really expect much. And the main, you know, discovery that I stand by, you know, to this day is that the samples were very clean, you know, there was nothing on them. And if you would expect something to be machined with a metal cutter, you would expect to find traces of the cutter, you know, shaved off and wedged-

• 43:20Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 43:21Speaker 02

  You know, in the sample, and we didn't see that.

• 43:23Danny Jones?

  Okay, I see what you're saying. Okay. So, so he gave you the samples to see if they had possibly been machined by something metal other than copper?

• 43:32Speaker 02

  Right. We didn't see any copper, and we didn't see, for that matter, much of anything. And I was like, wow, you know, this is very clean, because I used an electron microscope a lot for my research, you know, various experiments I ran, you know, you put a sample. And usually, like in a experimental environment, everything is dirty. You know how microchips are made? Everybody is wearing, you know, overalls and, you know, space suits, because a tiny particle will mess up your wafer, right? Well, it's very difficult to keep that level of cleanliness. Typically, if you do shit in the lab, everything is dirty. So all of my samples had all kinds of stuff on it.

• 44:14Speaker 02

  And the principal problem you have in science is telling contaminants apart from, like, useful things. But, you know, these Ben samples, they were like super clean, you know, how is this possible, right? And I was joking, oh, maybe they've been like plasma etched, because, you know, plasma etching, cleaning. But maybe it's just, you know, years of, you know, sand and water makes it clean, or, or maybe they were not- And a metal wasn't present, and we'll talk about that.

• 44:41Danny Jones?

  So, okay, so the pieces that he brought you, we don't know what they were from. They were just random pieces of granite. But they were clearly, they were clearly worked? Is that, is that?

• 44:50Speaker 02

  Ben brought me pieces of stone vessels.

• 44:53Danny Jones?

  Pieces of stone vessels? Okay, granite?

• 44:56Speaker 02

  No, actually, I don't know stone types. Because at that time, this was like entirely new topic to me. And you know nothing about geology. So he brought me some random pieces of stone vessels. And yeah, I couldn't identify stone types. So I said, okay, we'll just stick them in the microscope and see what we find. But they were clearly walked and worked. And there were clearly pieces of stone with vessels. So no, no doubt about that.

• 45:20Danny Jones?

  Is there a way of knowing when they would have been worked? Like what year, what timeframe?

• 45:24Speaker 02

  Good question. There is, but it's very difficult. It's possible, let's say, on certain types of stone. It's called, I think, thermoluminescence, the process. And the idea is this. Most like hard stones have quartz in it. You know, quartz is a common component of sand. And quartz tends to accumulate electrons.

• 45:49Danny Jones?

  Yes, not much, but a little bit.

• 45:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, a little bit. And what happens is, let's say you have a freshly machined surface.

• 45:56Danny Jones?

  Steve, you lost your, your beautiful image. You're back to your hippie lady. Steve's a hippie.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  Okay. So quartz accumulates electrons. And if you have like a freshly machined surface, you know, you pretty much know electrons because you took off all of the quartz particles that had any electrons in them. But then, you know, you let that, let that surface sit. It will gather electrons. And then at some point, if you hit that surface, those electrons will come off in a flash of light. And then by the brightness of that flash of light, you can tell, you know, how much time elapsed from, yes, from when this surface was machined until you hit it. I'm sure I'm always simplifying it, but that's, you know, that's the gist.

• 46:45Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. Interesting.

• 46:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. So in principle, let's say it was the granite, the quartzite, it's possible.

• 46:52Danny Jones?

  So I thought that like the earthquake lights that you see come from the igneous rock grinding against each other. It's not from the, is it from the grinding or is it from the heat that is the product of the rock rubbing against each other?

• 47:05Speaker 02

  You know, it's unclear. You know, there is a guy who did work on granite slabs.

• 47:12Danny Jones?

  Yes. Yeah. Freeman Freund.

• 47:14Speaker 02

  Yes. So he showed that you get electrical effects from compressing granite. And from the standpoint of physics, it makes perfect sense.

• 47:23Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 47:24Speaker 02

  And then he extrapolated it to the earthquakes because you can have layers.

• 47:29Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 47:29Speaker 02

  Of granite on the ground. So it's possible that those get compressed. And you have these electric fields that, that cause the lights. You know, the detailed mechanism, I don't think he worked out it in sufficient detail, but overall, you know, it seems plausible.

• 47:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Well, he took a large chunk of granite, like a long, a very long, not, not a cylindrical piece, but it was like a square block that was very long. Um, like a pillar and he put a, an electrode on one end and the other, and they squeezed it. And they were able to register electrons from the other end. And that was his theory on like how they could do earthquake, uh, early earthquake detection. Based on seeing the earthquake light. So they did a bunch of measurements around the world where earthquake lights were detected. And sure enough, uh, within days or weeks after the earthquake lights, there were earthquakes. So his hypothesis with that, they would be like a good early, early warning detection system to save people's lives.

• 48:28Danny Jones?

  Fascinating dude.

• 48:30Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 48:30Danny Jones?

  And that goes into Chris Dunn's entire Tesla hypothesis. That, uh, the ground beneath the great pyramid was being vibrated by some sort of. He thinks there was like a, a jackhammer in the subterranean chamber that was like. Hammering the earth, creating mini earthquakes, and that was sending electrons up through the base of the pyramid, through all the rock, and that was some sort of charging the pyramid in some way and creating some sort of free energy to power that civilization.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's really fascinating, because, you know, there isn't a day when I don't look at the structure of the Great Pyramid or other pyramids and trying to figure out how it could have worked. And clearly, you know, Chris Dunn had some interesting ideas, and I'm also trying to approach it from the standpoint of engineering, you know, why certain things are engineered certain way in the Great Pyramid. And the best answer I've gotten so far is, and I'm looking at the Great Pyramid, and the chamber itself is granite, and the chamber has a corbelled ceiling.

• 49:38Danny Jones?

  King's chamber?

• 49:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, King's chamber. And I'm thinking, you know, why on earth would you make like corbelled, you know, ceiling? You know, why is this important? And to me, the answer is, the only reason it's important, if you want to load the walls, the side walls of the chamber with the weight above and not the ceiling, because let's say if a chamber is square, you have load both on the side walls and on the ceiling.

• 50:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 50:06Speaker 02

  And why, you know, would you want to load side walls but not the ceiling? It's like when you build a wave that oscillates between the walls, and you want that wave to bounce only between the walls and not between the ceiling and the floor.

• 50:21Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 50:22Speaker 02

  And, and I'm thinking, again, you know, why they use granite? So the thing about granite is, it does not deform easily. That's why a bunch of, like, workbenches are made out of granite. For, like, in a machine shop, you will always have like a granite slab that they use for measurements. Because if it, yes. You didn't know that?

• 50:46Danny Jones?

  No, I did not know that.

• 50:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like the most common use of granite in modern day machining is various measurement. I forget the term now. It's measurement desk or measurement table. Uh, but it's, it's used for measurement because let's say you have a metal workbench. And you put a part on it and you know, these days tolerances are, you know, microns. So you start measuring something, but heat vibration, your metal surface, it will curve ever so slightly, and that's enough to mess up your measurements by a micron or two. And then, you know, when you use your precision micrometer to check, you know, the tolerance on the, on the part, it's all messed up. So that was figured out like years ago, and now it's all made of granite. Because granite does not bend easily, you know, it's

• 51:30Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Keeps its shape regardless of vibration, temperature, pressure. Yeah, you got it. Granite table, yeah.

• 51:37Danny Jones?

  Whoa, on eBay, huh?

• 51:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:40Danny Jones?

  Twenty-seven hundred bucks for a 10-inch thick granite worktable.

• 51:43Speaker 02

  Yes, they're massive because they're super stable.

• 51:47Danny Jones?

  We need one.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  And, uh, that's the property of granite, you know, it does not bend, does not compress easily. Anyway, you know, not as easy as metals or other. And I'm thinking, well, that's why, you know, the chamber was built out of granite because they wanted it to keep its shape. And when it's important, it's only important when you want to build resonance. Because if your chamber deforms, your resonance will go out of tune. But if your chamber, you know, will not deform, no matter what.

• 52:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 52:19Speaker 02

  Then it will build a pretty good resonance.

• 52:21Danny Jones?

  What is it, F sharp, the king, the king chamber vibration, when you, something happens where I think Chris was explaining, he was in there and then he took a, um, a measuring device that measures the sound in there and tells you, uh, what note it is. And he said it was an F sharp, I believe.

• 52:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I do believe that.

• 52:43Danny Jones?

  I was right.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, F sharp.

• 52:45Danny Jones?

  Okay, the king's chamber of the Great Pyramid of Giza is primarily known for a, uh, uh, known to resonate at a frequency around 117 hertz, which corresponds roughly to the musical note F, F sharp. Acoustical engineers, including Tom Delaney, have found that the chamber and the granite sarcophagus within it have multiple resonant frequencies. Key findings include, wow, that's so wild.

• 53:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it seemed like it was functional, man.

• 53:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, clearly, I believe that it was, you know, some kind of industrial installation. I don't think it was a tomb.

• 53:22Danny Jones?

  No.

• 53:23Speaker 02

  But, you know, when I'm trying to analyze it, I'm trying to see, you know, the patterns that I, as an engineer, would recognize. And I recognize this importance of resonance. I recognize why they use granite. And the fact that the ceiling was corbelled is telling me that it was important to have the wave bouncing between, you know, the walls.

• 53:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 53:42Speaker 02

  As opposed to between floor and the ceiling.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  And the other interesting, I think, observation about it is the chamber itself seems to have exploded.

• 53:54Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  Because, you know, the blocks moved out of place.

• 53:58Danny Jones?

  The huge chunk that was blown out of the box in the middle of it.

• 54:02Speaker 02

  Which tells me it worked and it served its purpose. So I think it was like a one-time deal.

• 54:09Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 54:09Speaker 02

  Where it built, you know, the resonance it was supposed to. And then, I'll tell you something else.

• 54:17Speaker 02

  When, you know, when you build a resonance, at some point, your system can no longer contain it.

• 54:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 54:24Speaker 02

  Because it just, you know, starts falling apart. And I think that's exactly what happened. But I think it was designed for this specific purpose because, you know, the shafts.

• 54:34Speaker 02

  The shafts were blocked by about five inches of granite.

• 54:39Danny Jones?

  Gate and Brink's door, they found at the top of it.

• 54:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, so the, and in the Queen's chamber, if you remember.

• 54:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that was the Queen's chamber.

• 54:47Speaker 02

  They weren't even, you know, connected to the chamber.

• 54:50Danny Jones?

  Right, exactly.

• 54:50Speaker 02

  So, and that's a principle in engineering too, that we find often, like in the case of, um, let's say, fuses. So you have some material left that's supposed to break when you signal.

• 55:04Speaker 02

  Exceeds the critical threshold. So I think the operating idea between the kings and queens chamber was he built his resonance. And when it reaches, you know, the threshold, it breaks those slabs that were intentionally left in the shafts.

• 55:22Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 55:23Speaker 02

  And then, you know, the energy is released.

• 55:25Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  So.

• 55:26Danny Jones?

  Well, there was i- in the shafts in the queens chamber, I believe there was two blocks that were blocking the en- the en- edges or the ends of them. And the kings chamber, the shafts, one of them, I think, goes straight out and the other one does some weird thing, uh, curve around the, um, grand gallery and then shoots out the side of the pyramid.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, so I do believe that the, you know, queens chamber, for that matter, was never used. You know, it was designed, but for whatever reason, they, they decided to build another one. The kings chamber.

• 56:00Danny Jones?

  So you think they never used the shafts in the queens chamber?

• 56:03Speaker 02

  No, I don't think so.

• 56:04Danny Jones?

  Why?

• 56:05Speaker 02

  Well, for two reasons, they were blocked off.

• 56:09Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 56:10Speaker 02

  And then they never terminated on the outside.

• 56:14Danny Jones?

  They did terminate?

• 56:15Speaker 02

  No.

• 56:15Danny Jones?

  What do you mean?

• 56:16Speaker 02

  Uh, the queen chamber shafts, they terminate within the bulk of the pyramid.

• 56:20Danny Jones?

  Yes, correct. They don't reach the outside.

• 56:22Speaker 02

  Yes. But I think the queen chamber.

• 56:25Danny Jones?

  So you think that was on accident?

• 56:26Speaker 02

  No, I think, you know what?

• 56:28Danny Jones?

  Like you think that they, that they built that? And, uh, they decided, oh, this isn't gonna work, we need to do two more?

• 56:36Speaker 02

  Yes. Basically, when I look at these pyramids as a whole, like every one of them, and, you know, I listened to a bunch of lectures of other researchers who, you know, described their ideas. I think the growing consensus is there was a lot of trial and error.

• 56:50Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 56:51Speaker 02

  And I think, you know, whoever was building this, you know, they were discovering things and they were trying things. So when I look at these various pyramids, I see evolutions in engineering thinking and engineering design. And in the great pyramid, you know, we see it. We see two chambers because the first chamber is positioned where you think it needs to be. It's like on the axis, it's down below.

• 57:12Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 57:13Speaker 02

  Yet, you know, they build another one that's offset and has got some additional elements to it. So, and they figured out it wasn't going to work.

• 57:21Danny Jones?

  Uh, Steve, I don't know if you can find Chris Dunn's latest diagram from his new book, but he hypothesizes that the chambers in the queen's chamber, or the shafts that go out of the queen's chamber, do connect to the outside of the pyramid through, uh, like pits in the ground. He thinks there were these open pits in the ground that they, uh, could have forced some sort of chemical into that basically went up into that chamber and like seeped through the door. He thinks the limestone door, because it wasn't a granite door, it was a limestone door.

• 58:02Danny Jones?

  He thinks that the, the chemical could have filtered through that door down into the shafts.

• 58:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, and, and here is a, I guess I need to, to give a disclaimer. So what we're doing, we're discussing ideas, right? So we're discussing hypotheses, we're fantasizing.

• 58:17Danny Jones?

  We need to find out, Steve, if they actually did prove that those shafts in the queen's chamber had a, a connection to the outside of the pyramid in Chris Dunn's latest book.

• 58:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, and, and what I'm saying is that's what we need to do when we're starting out. You know, we need to have ideas, we need to have hypotheses. And then, you know, if you want to discover the truth, we need to test the ideas. Test the hypothesis. So, you know, each idea is testable. If the chemical was used, there has to be a trace of it left. So by collecting samples and analyzing, we should be able to determine.

• 58:53Danny Jones?

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• 59:38Danny Jones?

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• 1:00:23Danny Jones?

  It's gonna be an image that he used in his latest book about the Tesla connection.

• 1:00:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, so that's kind of where I come in. And when I hear, I hypothesize that I can test. You know, that's what I do because I very much would like to know how it worked, why, and who done it because I'd like to learn from it and I'd like to use the knowledge that was available back then in my life, you know, to make my life better, to make your life better. You know, so we understand the world better, you know, and make our way through it. You know, with less effort and more joy. That's what I, you know, very excited to learn.

• 1:01:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah, totally, man. Yeah, I think there's lots of questions that need to be answered about this stuff. You find anything, Steve?

• 1:01:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I

• 1:01:10Danny Jones?

  No, I'm still looking.

• 1:01:11Speaker 02

  I kind of want to finish the point, you know, what I think about the pyramid. Because I mentioned that this chamber worked. And I think, you know, when it reached this resonance, it breached this remaining in a few inches of granite that was blocking the shafts and the energy shot out of the pyramid. So I think it was used for communication. And that would explain the astronomical alignment.

• 1:01:39Danny Jones?

  So. But the the the ends of those shafts in the Queen's Chamber aren't broken. Those doors are intact. They had to drill through them.

• 1:01:49Speaker 02

  No, I'm talking about the King's.

• 1:01:51Danny Jones?

  Oh, the King's Chamber. Oh, so you think that was originally sealed?

• 1:01:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:01:54Danny Jones?

  Okay, I I understand.

• 1:01:56Speaker 02

  So I think the this remaining few inches of granite broke, you know, when the resonance reached the desired magnitude and it was designed to break.

• 1:02:03Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:02:04Speaker 02

  And the energy went out. And I think it was used for communication because that would explain astronomical alignment and obsession of the ancients with keeping track of time. So throughout these ancient structures or even, you know, ancient history, we have

• 1:02:24Speaker 02

  obsession with with calendars.

• 1:02:28Speaker 02

  With keeping track of time. And astronomical alignment. So if you're building a power plant, why the hell is it important that it's like oriented exactly in a north south? It doesn't matter if it's a power plant, but it matters if it's a communication device, especially for space communication. Because, you know, to send a signal to space.

• 1:02:47Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:02:47Speaker 02

  You need to align everything in time, everything precisely, because otherwise it's not going to arrive.

• 1:02:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:02:53Speaker 02

  So to me, as an engineer, you know, that's the only explanation I can think of of why a structure needs to be precisely aligned. And why, you know, timing is important because that's how we do space communications now. Let's say you have a Voyager spacecraft on the edge of the solar system. The only way you can talk to it if your antenna is precisely pointing to it. And because in Earth is turning.

• 1:03:17Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  Everything is turning. It's not just the orientation, it's also timing. And I think, you know, pyramids have the same, you know, signature. It's precisely oriented. And then you have this obsession with time, you know, timekeeping in different ancient cultures, which makes no sense, you know, if you're a primitive, you know, human being. For your, you know, crop calendar, it doesn't matter, you know, the cycles of Venus and other stuff, you know. You can figure out how many days in a year and be happy with it. So why? Why do you need equinoxes and other shit? It's only if you want to establish, you know, your clock in the cosmic reference where you want to send signals, you know, across the solar system. And then, you know, to send it, you just you need to know time and you need to know the orientation. Because otherwise it's not going to arrive.

• 1:04:03Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  So, and, and we see that, you know, in pyramids, it's precisely oriented.

• 1:04:07Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:04:07Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah, man, it's, it's just a hypothesis, but that's, you know, where my thinking have, have led me to.

• 1:04:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah. So how is it? How exactly is it oriented?

• 1:04:15Speaker 02

  It's exactly pointed to the north.

• 1:04:17Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:04:17Speaker 02

  North, south, like within like a fraction of a degree.

• 1:04:20Danny Jones?

  Hmm. And are the shafts, are the shafts that come out of the queen or the king's chamber, are those aligned astronomically at all?

• 1:04:28Speaker 02

  Various people looked at it and they proposed various hypotheses, but I don't think those hypotheses hold water. Because, you know, there are so many stars and the stars shift.

• 1:04:39Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:04:39Speaker 02

  But, uh, and, you know, I don't pretend to be right about it. It's just a wild idea. I'm just saying, if you want to send a signal and you know that a certain party will be in a certain point in space at a certain time. And you want to reach to them, you know, that's where you point. So I think, you know, the shafts weren't particularly pointing to any star or planet. I think they were just pointing to a location of interest where that signal was supposed to be received.

• 1:05:07Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:05:07Speaker 02

  So, so I guess the hypothesis that I'm ascribing to it's, you know, the Robinson Crusoe, the famous book. So I think someone got stranded on earth and they were desperate to send a SOS back.

• 1:05:20Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 1:05:21Speaker 02

  Yes. And that's, and the pyramid was their way of doing it. That's why it has this geographical alignment and, you know, precisely timed. And you have this chamber that builds resonance and then the slabs break and the energy is released and your SOS is communicated. So I think it served its purpose.

• 1:05:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Well, it's also interesting, there's pyramids all over the world.

• 1:05:42Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:05:43Danny Jones?

  Not just there. I mean, obviously the great pyramid of Chiops, it was like the most impressive one with the most uh, enormous megalithic stones that are built into it. And with all those crazy chambers that make it look like a machine, but like pyramids are everywhere, all over South America. They're in China, um, all over Egypt.

• 1:06:04Danny Jones?

  And, um, I don't know. I don't know, man. I, I, I think it's totally possible that a human timeline wasn't linear.

• 1:06:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. Are you familiar with the, is it cargo theory?

• 1:06:16Danny Jones?

  Cargo cult?

• 1:06:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. Cargo cult theory. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about? The Pacific island.

• 1:06:21Danny Jones?

  Uh, remind me.

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  So during the World War II.

• 1:06:26Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:26Speaker 02

  American soldiers dropped cargo on some Pacific island.

• 1:06:31Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:32Speaker 02

  And I think they dropped it by mistake, maybe they meant to drop it somewhere else and there was a tribe living on that island. So the experience of the tribe, you know, there's goods dropped out of the sky. Then beings landed and they gave these magic artifacts to them. And then they cured disease and shit. And when the Americans left, the Polynesians, I think those were Polynesians, they started imitating what they've seen. They've built a wooden airplane.

• 1:07:03Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:07:03Speaker 02

  They put coconuts on their heads, yes, to simulate headphones. Yeah, yes, they made, you know, goggles out of, you know, bamboo, who knows what. You know, they even imitated the rituals. So I think we have this firsthand experience of what an encounter with a more technologically advanced civilization looks like. You know, people come from the sky, they bring technology that that you consider is magic and then emulate it.

• 1:07:32Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:07:33Speaker 02

  And and I think we see a lot of that, you know, all over the world. So in a pyramids, maybe some of them were built for the purpose, others were, you know, emulations.

• 1:07:45Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:07:45Speaker 02

  And a lot of objects, even in vases, I think, you know, we have some that emulate artifacts that, you know, weren't produced, let's say, by by the people the vases are attributed to.

• 1:07:59Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:08:00Speaker 02

  So I think this this makes sense because, you know, look, otherwise, what the heck is that? You know, it's just we're trying to recreate something that we've seen.

• 1:08:08Danny Jones?

  Yes, certainly.

• 1:08:09Speaker 02

  We don't really know the function of it.

• 1:08:10Danny Jones?

  Certainly, there's a lot of pyramids in Egypt around the Great Pyramid that that are not impressive. They're not as impressive. Right? They're not perfect. They don't have, you know, 10 ton pieces of granite that are perfectly cut square. They don't have all the internal structures and internal shafts and chambers and all that stuff. But they're all over the world.

• 1:08:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:29Danny Jones?

  Right? Like they're, they're, how do you get them in Peru and Mexico and, you know, Central America and in, in halfway across the world in Egypt? It's just, it just seems, it seems crazy to me.

• 1:08:44Speaker 02

  Well, I think whoever crashed on Earth, they traveled the planet because they were desperate to get out of it.

• 1:08:49Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 1:08:50Speaker 02

  So they went to different parts of it. And maybe they were even, you know, different factions in that party that, you know.

• 1:08:57Danny Jones?

  I don't even think they have to crash on Earth. I think it could have just been humans. I could, I think it could have been super advanced humans that got wiped out.

• 1:09:04Speaker 02

  That, that's also possible, which, which I think there is some science fiction stories, maybe even a lot of science fiction stories where the plot goes like this. So people go on, uh, what's the word? On interstellar travel, you know, which takes years. Then they come back and some calamity beset the planet. The planet is wiped. So you come back home, but there is no home anymore. It's wiped out.

• 1:09:34Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:09:35Speaker 02

  So that's quite possible, you know, which brings another excellent observation.

• 1:09:43Speaker 02

  Something to the tune of not just tectonic plates moving, but the Earth crust slipping. So have you heard of this theory?

• 1:09:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. So evidently it's possible that the Earth crust is just barely hanging on to the mantle. But, you know, the planet spins as a whole. So the crust spins along with the mantle. And I don't know if you've been tracking the news, but maybe a year ago, there's been a lot of talk that the Earth core was showing some irregularities in rotation. So if you think the idea of the Earth crust.

• 1:10:24Danny Jones?

  The core is showing irregularities?

• 1:10:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:10:26Danny Jones?

  I haven't seen that. I saw news about the North Pole shifting.

• 1:10:30Speaker 02

  Well, I think these are related news. And, you know, when I read them, I tend not to believe them because, you know, to me as a physicist, if you have like a spinning mass, it cannot shift its direction of rotation quickly because of the amount of energy is required. Right, right. So when I was reading those news, I, you know, didn't take much stock in them, but you know, just go with me for a moment. So. So suppose indeed, you know, these various layers of Earth aren't as tightly coupled to one another, right? As, as we might believe. And then if you have like solar system as a system, meaning you have like multiple planets

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  orbiting the sun and these planets influence each other. And then on top of that, you have visitors to the solar system from other solar systems, like now we have this Atlas III body zooming. And it's like the third one we observe. So in the past, and it could have been other bodies that, you know, passed. And, you know, what if they passed closer to Earth? And then you have interaction between these various systems. And normally we're taught, well, it's just gravity and gravity is weak, or it shouldn't really affect things, except that, you know, maybe change the trajectory of Earth around Sun slightly.

• 1:11:53Speaker 02

  But what if, you know, it can affect in the Earth's crust and it could affect this lippage? You see what I mean?

• 1:11:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah, this is crazy. I've never seen this. Mysterious changes near Earth's core were revealed by satellites in space? This was like a month ago.

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, there are news about it on and off and, you know, I didn't study closely because.

• 1:12:15Danny Jones?

  Materials deep inside Earth, thousands of kilometers down, near the planet's core, has pay to watch. You can't get through that paywall? No, I'm not a hacker. I thought Brave could get through them.

• 1:12:29Speaker 02

  Oh, well, I can tell you where you can read the article if you go to si-hub.

• 1:12:33Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah?

• 1:12:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a pirate site that goes around.

• 1:12:38Speaker 02

  So, the point.

• 1:12:40Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:43Speaker 02

  We talk about, you know, warming, you know, climate change and whatnot, right?

• 1:12:46Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:12:47Speaker 02

  How is this really?

• 1:12:47Danny Jones?

  Just went back on that, you see that?

• 1:12:49Speaker 02

  Well.

• 1:12:50Danny Jones?

  He just pulled back on climate change. He said, "It's not gonna end Earth." He said, "Now we have to focus on refunding USAID."

• 1:12:56Speaker 02

  Good. Well.

• 1:12:59Speaker 02

  We know that Earth goes through climate cycles, you know, regardless, man-made, you know, natural, Earth goes through climate cycles.

• 1:13:06Danny Jones?

  Yes, I've seen the chart that goes back, uh, millions of years and it's, uh, it's a roller coaster.

• 1:13:10Speaker 02

  So, yes, exactly. And why is this important? Because it's cyclical.

• 1:13:14Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:13:14Speaker 02

  And what happens when you have cycles? You have more ice, you have less ice. What happens when you have more ice? You have ice pushing down on Earth's crust.

• 1:13:23Danny Jones?

  Correct, yeah.

• 1:13:24Speaker 02

  You know, creating an indentation that pins Earth's crust to the mantle. But if that ice melts, the indentation becomes shallow and nothing is pinning crust to the mantle.

• 1:13:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the ice on the top and the bottom of the Earth are like counterweights, right?

• 1:13:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:44Danny Jones?

  If there is too much ice, maybe on one, on the top or something and not on the bottom or whatever, it could, it could whoop.

• 1:13:51Speaker 02

  That plus the fact that you have weight that's pushing your crust down.

• 1:13:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:57Speaker 02

  So if that weight is gone, all of a sudden, you know, the crust is just sitting on a, on a rather slick layer of a mantle. There was nothing pushing it down.

• 1:14:06Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:14:07Speaker 02

  So I think it's not impossible to where when another body's, like I say, shooting through the solar system

• 1:14:13Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:14:13Speaker 02

  and coming next to Earth and then some interaction takes place.

• 1:14:17Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:14:17Speaker 02

  And maybe it doesn't take a lot of energy, you know, where, let's say, the pull on the crust is stronger and there is no ice to hold the crust down and maybe, you know, the crust would slip. And then you have this enormous, you know, tidal wave that goes and wipes everything. And, and maybe it's a cyclical process and maybe that's, you know, what's been happening on this planet for.

• 1:14:38Danny Jones?

  I mean, it's crazy. What, what is the spin rate of the, we're spinning at, what, a thousand miles per hour? Is that right?

• 1:14:43Speaker 02

  Five hundred meters per second on the equator. If that's what you mean, the Earth.

• 1:14:48Danny Jones?

  The spit, like how fast the Earth is, is rotating. I thought it was a thousand, is a thousand miles per hour.

• 1:14:54Speaker 02

  Well, you can convert meters per second.

• 1:14:56Danny Jones?

  Oh, look, there you go.

• 1:14:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, you got it.

• 1:14:59Danny Jones?

  One thousand and thirty-eight miles per hour.

• 1:15:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, so five hundred meters, yeah, per second on the equator. So.

• 1:15:06Speaker 02

  Speaking of which, you know, do you find anything fine, uh, funny in Florida?

• 1:15:12Danny Jones?

  I find lots of funny things in Florida.

• 1:15:14Speaker 02

  Well, I find several things funny. We have pine trees next to palm trees. You know, pine trees is a northern species.

• 1:15:25Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:15:25Speaker 02

  So why the hell do we have, you know, so many pine trees next to palm trees?

• 1:15:30Speaker 02

  Well, then, uh, the water, if you drill.

• 1:15:34Danny Jones?

  People like to plant trees.

• 1:15:35Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, these are like native species, right? The pines were here, you know, when, when people arrived. You know, there are pines here natively.

• 1:15:46Danny Jones?

  Lots of oaks too.

• 1:15:47Speaker 02

  Right. Then, you know, when you drill down, the water is loaded with iron. It's rusty.

• 1:15:55Danny Jones?

  In Florida?

• 1:15:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:15:57Danny Jones?

  Or is this everywhere?

• 1:15:58Speaker 02

  In Florida.

• 1:15:58Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:15:59Speaker 02

  And when you drill deeper, you know, there is a lot of sulfur, meaning from organic matter decay. So what, what this is telling me, there is a lot of shit under sand, you know, because we have layers of sand. And then, uh, under those layers, we have layers where organic matter is decaying profusely, creating this hydrogen sulfide, that's a, which is a problem. And then we have layers that are for whatever reason reaching iron.

• 1:16:27Speaker 02

  And then when you have sprinklers going, everybody has this red splotches because there's dissolved iron. Yes. But at different depths, you find this. And what's telling me is it's consistent, you know, that observation on its own is consistent with the fact that there was something here that was covered by the tidal wave. And now it's rotting and, and you get this, you know, dissolved iron because it was metal structures and you get this in a hydrogen sulfide because it's buried organic matter. And the fact that we have pine trees is compatible with the fact that this was further north, but then, you know, the crust shifted, you know, the northern vegetation ended up in the south. And then, you know, the tidal wave, you know, buried stuff over. And in our town, there is-

• 1:17:12Speaker 02

  How long ago you think this happened? Not too long ago, because not all of the iron is gone and not all of the organic matter is gone. And there are some traces of infrastructure, even in our town, we have a thing called Indian Canal, which is a canal that is covered, you know, with a ground penetrating radar when they were like doing construction that connects to, or basically goes across like a sandbar. Hmm. But it's maybe half a mile long, you know, something like that. And they say, oh, Indians must have dug it because it makes perfect sense. Here you have a harbor and there you have the ocean. So rather than going the long way, let's just cut a canal. Sure. Well, I'm thinking, shit, you are an Indian, you're practically naked.

• 1:17:54Speaker 02

  You have, you know, a canoe, you don't have any tools and you will start digging a canal? You know, that just, I'm refusing to believe it. Besides, they didn't have- You don't think Indians could build canals? Well, that's what, what the conventional explanation is. Right. And to me- I think it's possible Indians could have built canals. Well, I think it's possible, but it doesn't make sense. I mean, a lot of things that are possible don't, don't make sense. So to me, one of the guiding factors is when, when I look at history or archaeology is, I refuse to believe in things that don't make sense. Like, nobody would do stupid work, nobody would do work stupidly. I think people are smarter than that. So to me, to build a canal, it requires not only to have tools, but it also requires a level of organization.

• 1:18:39Speaker 02

  So you need to have some kind of state, which we are not aware of, you know, from the sociological studies or historical studies that Indians, at least at this part, you know, of the world, and we're not talking about Inca Empire or Aztec Empire, we're not aware of any empire existing locally, that was organized enough to where like major infrastructure work could be ordered, because you have to have power of state, you know, to gather that much people and, you know. Make him do the work.

• 1:19:12Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:19:13Speaker 02

  Because if you're just a merchant, well, there is only this much you could do, you know, to build a canal, you need, it's an organized effort.

• 1:19:19Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:19:20Speaker 02

  You need a state for that. You need bureaucracy and shit. And I don't think that was in place. So that's why I, you know, to me, an easier explanation, it's a remnant of an infrastructure that was, you know, wiped out and, and covered with sand, you know, while this whole thing.

• 1:19:35Danny Jones?

  Well, we were looking at, um, Steve, remember when we, we had the, um, the guy on here that was showing us the Carolina Bays and we were going back and we were on a website looking at the history of the landscape of Florida, particularly this county. And it was showing all the natural ravines and stuff that flow through today. Like right now, you can drive down the street and there's parts of the road where there's like little bridges with waterways going under them, right? They don't even pay attention to like little narrow canals and stuff like that. We were going back like hundreds of years and finding out that these things have been here forever and they ran all the way through Florida. And now we've just built on top of all of them. And, um, there's a lot of, uh, natural, like canals and, and ravines and rivers and stuff that, uh, that have been here for as long as we.

• 1:20:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And that particular canal is not natural. I mean, it's been established as a artificial.

• 1:20:27Danny Jones?

  Which canal are you talking about specifically?

• 1:20:28Speaker 02

  Canal in Naples.

• 1:20:29Danny Jones?

  In Naples?

• 1:20:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:30Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:20:30Speaker 02

  I think it's called the Indian Canal or something like that, you know? If you walk on, on the third avenue, you know, there is a sign there and it was a picture of radar scan that says, oh, you know, Indians must have dug it, you know, through. And we're not talking, yeah, that's it. We're not talking about digging through sand. We're talking about digging through, uh, coral also.

• 1:20:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:20:52Speaker 02

  So I mean, it's too big of a canal, a canal to where I, I just refuse to believe that.

• 1:20:57Danny Jones?

  How long do they, do we know, do they, do we know how long it's been there? Or what, what is the conventional explanation for how long it's been there?

• 1:21:03Speaker 02

  I don't recall on top of my head.

• 1:21:06Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 1:21:08Speaker 02

  But, you know.

• 1:21:09Danny Jones?

  It's not that big. What is that, a mile?

• 1:21:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, about a mile. But still, you know, imagine we're, we're talking Neolithic people did it. But that aside, there are traces of infrastructure that are a lot more impressive in Russia.

• 1:21:24Danny Jones?

  This is the canal, oh, this is the, okay. AI says the Indian Naples Canal was in use from approximately AD 700 to 1400.

• 1:21:36Danny Jones?

  Okay, so who was in Florida?

• 1:21:39Speaker 03

  Wait, what?

• 1:21:40Danny Jones?

  It ran over a fucking hell. It ran a mile from the Gulf of Mexico to Naples Bay. Oh, yeah, okay. So who was in Florida during, uh, 1000 AD?

• 1:21:51Speaker 02

  I have no idea.

• 1:21:52Danny Jones?

  Find out.

• 1:21:53Speaker 02

  Haven't been around.

• 1:21:55Danny Jones?

  You were in Russia.

• 1:21:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was in Russia, exactly.

• 1:21:59Speaker 02

  I was being chased.

• 1:22:00Danny Jones?

  Or at least your ancestors were getting chased through Siberia.

• 1:22:05Speaker 02

  So we were trying to decide whether to eat berries or mate with them.

• 1:22:12Danny Jones?

  Let's see what Steve comes up with here. Native Floridians, primarily the ancestors of the cow.

• 1:22:17Speaker 02

  Kalusa.

• 1:22:17Danny Jones?

  Kalusa lived in what is now Naples, surrounding area, forming part of the, uh, the Glades culture. Shell mound villages.

• 1:22:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, there were not a lot of people, and we're talking just a few thousand people because it was not a densely populated area.

• 1:22:33Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 1:22:38Speaker 02

  But where I was going with this is there are some remnants of ancient infrastructure in Russia that, you know, Russian enthusiasts discovered by studying maps. And those remnants of infrastructure fall into three categories. One is like stone, not stone, ground mound, not mounds, but ground walls that, like, maybe 10 feet tall, but they run like for thousands of kilometers. So when you drive on the road, you might see a hill or two, but like if you look on the satellite picture or topographic map, you see, and it seems to be like a manmade made dike or something.

• 1:23:17Speaker 02

  And some of those are found like along the Volga River where floods were known to take place because, you know, rivers do flood in springtime. But those are ancient and there are also traces of canals. And some of those were reused or, you know, deepened and excavated when modern day canals were built. So those are like, uh, middle Russia along Volga River, Volga Don. And, um, basically this earth, earth dykes or earth walls that, you know, no record of anybody building. And you think maybe during Sartre time, somebody built it? No, there is no record. But more puzzling like in Siberia, if you go like thousands and thousands of miles in Siberia, there is this known grid.

• 1:24:03Speaker 02

  When you look at the satellite map of Taiga, you see it's divided into squares. You actually see, you know, the division into squares. And when you go on site, you see that the area where there is no forest is, forest is not growing, for whatever reason, you know, as if the earth was somehow

• 1:24:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:23Speaker 02

  Uh, something, you know, some chemicals put, you know, to where it doesn't grow. And it forms this, uh, like neat, you know, rectangular pattern, like for, you know, thousands and thousands of miles. And, and once again, there is no

• 1:24:36Danny Jones?

  Where nothing grows in the middle of forest?

• 1:24:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's exactly, imagine you have

• 1:24:41Danny Jones?

  Can you find this, Steve?

• 1:24:43Speaker 02

  It's a, it's as if grid is superimposed on top of, of the woods. And that's

• 1:24:49Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:24:49Speaker 02

  Cleared and nobody's clearing it.

• 1:24:52Danny Jones?

  There's crazy, there's spots like this I've heard of in Siberia as well, where comets have hit.

• 1:24:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, but you know, we're talking about this rectangular grid

• 1:25:01Danny Jones?

  Right, well, obviously not comets.

• 1:25:02Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. And, uh, you know, imagine the amount of work it would take, you know, just to clear it and maintain it. But nobody's clearing it, nobody's maintaining it.

• 1:25:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that, when it comes to like ancient sites and ancient civilizations and stuff like this, Russia is one place you never really hear much talk about.

• 1:25:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, which is unfortunate because there's been some, you know, so, so right now we're discussing fringe ideas, right? But, you know, there is non-controversial discoveries made in archaeology in Russia recently that nobody's talking about.

• 1:25:33Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:25:33Speaker 02

  Like Siberia was supposed to have been uninhabitable, uh, by civilized peoples until recently. Yet, you know, they found a bunch of cities, uh, that like a spiral shaped cities

• 1:25:47Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:25:48Speaker 02

  That's been excavated, uh, and they all have like similar structure. And they practiced, uh, war smelting and pottery and all sorts of crafts. And maybe they found a dozen of these cities and one is, uh, the better known is, goes by the name of Arkheim. Yeah, and those date like thousands of years, you know, B.C. So all of a sudden, you know, the traces of unknown culture has been found that, you know, same time as, let's say, you know, Egyptian civilization. But in the part of the world where nobody knew, you know, any kind of civilized activity took place, you know, yet they find these mounds, they excavate them, and sure enough, it's a settlement.

• 1:26:28Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:26:29Speaker 02

  And there are a bunch of settlements like this, like all over, you know, Russia, right on the border of Russia and Kazakhstan, and some in Kazakhstan and other, others in Siberia.

• 1:26:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:38Speaker 02

  So we're talking like several of these, not just one. And imagine, you know, what else might be there? Some half thinking about getting the ground penetrating radar and start, you know, exploring myself because so much stuff seems to be on the ground.

• 1:26:54Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:26:55Speaker 02

  That, you know, we just walk over and we wonder why the hell, you know, my well water is red.

• 1:27:01Danny Jones?

  Is it the permafrost a big deal in Siberia?

• 1:27:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, there is. Oh, which.

• 1:27:08Danny Jones?

  And there's lots of like, I guess with it melting or something, there's like lots of like really toxic shit being released from the ground?

• 1:27:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, the funny you say that because there is a, you know, I write poetry and I like poetry and there is a Russian poet who writes like dirty poems.

• 1:27:26Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 1:27:27Speaker 02

  And recently, one of his poem was about permafrost melting and some prehistoric monster, you know, erupting from it and laying eggs all over the place, kind of like in the alien, you know, situation. And when you look at it, it's believable because, you know, shit melts and then, you know, we have this all kinds of pathogens and bacteria.

• 1:27:49Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:27:50Speaker 02

  That come out from it. But there is another thing that's like right in your face. Uh, we're talking about forests all over the planet aren't that old. And biologists and botanists who study forests, they discovered this long time ago that it's very strange that all the woods are approximately, you know, eighty to hundred years old.

• 1:28:20Speaker 02

  So we don't have forests.

• 1:28:22Danny Jones?

  All of the, all of the forests are.

• 1:28:23Speaker 02

  All of the forests, yes, and I could be.

• 1:28:26Danny Jones?

  What about the Amazon?

• 1:28:27Speaker 02

  Even in Amazon, there, there's been like a study of how connected the, uh, what's the term? You know, the tree has the corona, what's?

• 1:28:36Danny Jones?

  The canopy?

• 1:28:37Speaker 02

  The canopy, yes, I think. How, how well the canopies are connected? Because by how densely the canopies are packed, they can tell the age of the woods. It's like a very well researched topic and in established mature woods, all the canopies are meshed in very tightly. But if it's a younger wood, you know, there is a mismatch because, you know, trees grow at different rates. So they did a study in woods like all over, you know, the planet exhibit this pattern of being immature. And which makes no sense unless of course, you know, you include this, you know, catastrophe idea that occurs regularly that, you know, renews the woods, you know, on a global scale. And, uh, you know, that unfortunately, well, fortunately it traces back to the idea of catastrophisms of this catastrophes happen.

• 1:29:23Speaker 02

  And this planet regularly to where we don't have woods like, you know, the great redwoods all over the place. You know, we have, you know, just a few places where have these, you know, giant trees. But, but those are like a remnant, remnants of, you know, what's left.

• 1:29:40Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:40Speaker 02

  And because Taiga, it is huge and all of the woods are, you know, under a hundred years old.

• 1:29:45Danny Jones?

  Under a hundred years old?

• 1:29:46Speaker 02

  You will be very.

• 1:29:47Danny Jones?

  The Amazon's definitely over thousands of years old.

• 1:29:50Speaker 02

  Well, I, I mean, as a body, maybe, but I mean, individual trees.

• 1:29:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I think they, I think that's pretty not, not contested that the trees in the Amazon are really fucking old.

• 1:30:03Speaker 02

  Well, I don't know about Amazon. I can't speak about, you know, Russian.

• 1:30:06Danny Jones?

  I mean, trees all over the place.

• 1:30:07Speaker 02

  Taiga.

• 1:30:08Danny Jones?

  At least in North America. I don't know about Russia, but I know at least in North America, there's trees that are like ancient.

• 1:30:14Speaker 02

  Well, in Russia, you'll be hard pressed to find trees over a hundred years.

• 1:30:19Danny Jones?

  That's interesting.

• 1:30:20Speaker 02

  And the other interesting fact that people noticed is when you look at pictures of Russia taken a hundred years ago, hardly a tree anywhere. It's just plains.

• 1:30:31Speaker 02

  So all of like the seems of the majority of vegetation have grown in the past hundred years. And people often do this, you know, side by side pictures of what a place looked like in the early nineteen hundreds. Oh, I mean, yeah, basically hundred years ago versus now. And what and you cannot recognize because on one picture, not a single tree. And now it's like all overgrown. So there there is, you know, some shit happened to where there were no trees in Russia, all steps. And now the trees growing and all the trees are young, so.

• 1:31:01Danny Jones?

  Steve, see what you can find about this.

• 1:31:03Speaker 02

  And it's, you know, like within the scale of human life, you know, within a hundred years, you know, we're not talking thousands of years, you know, within a hundred years, it's a huge change. So, you know, to me as an engineer, this is all like fascinating, you know, I don't, I don't think, you know, the narrative we're presented is

• 1:31:21Speaker 02

  complete or accurate or truthful and not necessary because there is some conspiracy to hide, you know, the past from us. It's, I think it was challenging in the past when you have to go on on to an expedition, you know, make a discovery, report it. Now we're talking, you know, people are listening, they'll start looking at pictures and start digging in and information is like a wave is rising. All of a sudden we are presented, you know, with satellite images with geological survey, you know, data and some other shit that we can really, you know, quickly put side by side and see whether it meshes or not. And I think that's what makes our life exciting, you know, this, you know, geological information

• 1:32:04Speaker 02

  that we can mix and match and analyze.

• 1:32:08Speaker 03

  So I found the the age of the firs are the balsam fir is eighty years old.

• 1:32:16Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:32:18Speaker 03

  But that doesn't mean that the forest itself has been there for eighty years, but that's their lifespan, which is pretty short for a fricking tree.

• 1:32:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that is a very short, right?

• 1:32:27Speaker 03

  Like, but then it says that well, maximum lifespan is

• 1:32:30Danny Jones?

  Is a hundred and fifty.

• 1:32:31Speaker 03

  Only a hundred and fifty.

• 1:32:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:33Speaker 03

  That's odd. The lifespan can be cut short by pests. Uh, wow.

• 1:32:41Danny Jones?

  Wow, I didn't know. And I couldn't really, oh wait, I think I might have found a comparison. No, that's, no, that's just a deforestation. I couldn't find the.

• 1:32:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:51Danny Jones?

  Good comparison.

• 1:32:52Speaker 02

  Might be it.

• 1:32:54Danny Jones?

  Maybe this.

• 1:32:55Speaker 02

  You need to type the query in Russia, in Russian, because it's mostly like discussed in Russian.

• 1:33:00Danny Jones?

  Ah, okay.

• 1:33:01Speaker 02

  Hmm. Channels. But even in my hometown, you know, I've seen pictures of what it looked like, like hundred years ago versus now. And hundred years ago, there was hardly a tree.

• 1:33:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:33:11Speaker 02

  But of course, you know, there is also a more trivial explanation that, you know, before they've been cutting trees for firewood.

• 1:33:19Danny Jones?

  Right, yeah.

• 1:33:20Speaker 02

  But like all over the place, you know what? And, and that's kind of the thing. Um, you know, the point I wanted to make, it's fine to have ideas, you know, it's fine to have speculations. It's fine to have fantasies, but at the end of the day, and if you want to prove anything, it all boils down to running numbers. Right? So you run your idea through numbers and see if it, you know, comes out correct or not.

• 1:33:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:49Speaker 02

  And then maybe you do the count and all the trees were cut because, you know, winters are cold and no trees are left.

• 1:33:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:58Speaker 02

  But then the question becomes if they cut all the trees and they were still not freezing, you know, where the hell they were getting the firewood from?

• 1:34:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:34:06Speaker 02

  So.

• 1:34:06Danny Jones?

  So, um, are there any sort of like unexplainable megalithic sites or artifacts that are found in Russia?

• 1:34:14Speaker 02

  I'm glad you asked. Yes.

• 1:34:19Speaker 02

  But it's not what you think. It's actually.

• 1:34:25Speaker 02

  I guess I think the biggest mystery in the eyes of Russians is Saint Petersburg. You know, they sent Petersburg in Russia.

• 1:34:32Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:34:32Speaker 02

  Which is the city that is not that old if you, you know, believe the official history. So if you read the official history, it goes Peter the Great.

• 1:34:43Speaker 02

  Founded this city in the middle of a swamp where the Neva River flows out of Lake Ladoga into the Gulf of Finland, like real low swampy land. And he decided to build a new capital there. And the first question is, like you find the worst possible spot. Congratulations. Everybody recognizes this because ever since the city was built, it was suffering from annual floods of Neva River.

• 1:35:18Speaker 02

  Right. So stupid, you know. And then, you know, the Gulf of Finland, everybody knows it has so much fresh water in it to where arguably motivation of Peter the Great was he wanted to build a port, port city. But the Gulf of Finland is so bad to where it's a known fact that the cost of moving goods, let's say from Holland all the way to Gulf of Finland, let's say is 100 units. And then this remaining, you know, two miles exactly also 100 units because it was shallow, the water was almost non-saline, saline.

• 1:36:01Speaker 02

  So the wood brought it. So like it's like the worst possible place, you know, for commerce. But, you know, that aside, the bigger mystery is we have these palaces, you know, just magnificent palaces in Saint Petersburg and cathedrals that have megalithic component to them. And, and once again, it's a topic that's like widely discussed in Russian communities because it's like close to our culture and probably not discussed here. But take for example, for example, Saint Isaac's Cathedral. So if you open up a history book, it tells us that was built by, you know, Italian architect.

• 1:36:46Speaker 02

  And that cathedral has columns that are, you know, 100 feet tall. You know, they're gigantic. Yes, they're huge. And they're telling us that, you know, those columns were brought and quarried, and they have pictures. And when you look at those pictures, it makes no sense. There's no way, you know, those columns were loaded on a barge. And not a chance in hell they were, you know, transported and offloaded. And it's just the documentation that goes with it.

• 1:37:13Danny Jones?

  What year?

• 1:37:14Speaker 02

  Like 200 years ago, ish, you know, maybe 300. Yeah, about, you know, 200, 300 years ago. So it's not that long ago. And there is arguably documentation, because the guy who built it, Monfran, you know, he put a journal where he documented it. And I built houses. I'm an engineer, and I look at it, it looks odd. And then you also consider no roads, you know, Russia was poor, and then you're building this, you know, huge multi-ton columns and bringing them over, and it just doesn't make sense. But it goes further than that. Then all over Saint Petersburg, which is, by the way, on the same longitude as Cairo.

• 1:37:57Speaker 02

  There is a lot of, you know, Egyptian motifs, you know, there are sphinxes, and there is Egyptian-inspired architecture, there are this megalithic granite bathtubs that are exhibited at a hermitage, which, you know, we have no idea how the hell they were carved and brought. And then, I guess the funniest thing is, you know, the Winter Palace or the Hermitage Museum now. It's actually a three-story building, but the first story is entirely underground. And if you, if you walk around it, you know, there will be like a hole where you can see a portion of the window. And if you excavate it further, you know, you see the columns and everything.

• 1:38:38Speaker 02

  It's not like, it's like the first floor is buried completely. Meaning like, how can you build 200 years ago and have your like first floor be underground? And that's like a pattern in every town in Russia.

• 1:38:52Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:38:53Speaker 02

  Yes, like the first floors are underground, where the entrances to the building are often on the second floor, or like in between the floors.

• 1:39:01Danny Jones?

  Underground, when you say underground, is there a basement? Can you go down there, or is it?

• 1:39:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can go down there.

• 1:39:06Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:39:08Speaker 02

  It's such a common.

• 1:39:09Danny Jones?

  But it's like there was, you're saying that there's like windows on the exterior.

• 1:39:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, windows and all of the decorative elements and the first floor looks exactly like, you know, the ground floor now, but except it's underground. So it clearly, you know, was covered up. And when, uh, when you talk to, let's say, a historian, they say, oh, it's, you know, dirt. Like really, you know, over 200 years, we have six, seven feet of dirt, you know, the street was never cleaned. Because it's a pattern, not only in St. Petersburg, it's in every like major city in Russia is like that. You know, they do some construction work in a building that's only 200 years old, you know, the first floor is on the ground. And it was all the windows and doors and steps and all of the.

• 1:39:53Danny Jones?

  Buried.

• 1:39:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, buried, basically. It's just, and, and people started noticing this and they posting this and, and they researched St. Petersburg a lot. And, and once again, you know, you cannot believe everything that people say on internet. So you don't know when people post something, it's authentic or not, but.

• 1:40:12Danny Jones?

  I want to see, what is the explanation for the giant granite bathtubs?

• 1:40:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. I don't know. They say, well, some guys in Russia did it and they delivered it. But, uh, maybe more, I guess, incredulous is.

• 1:40:27Danny Jones?

  Are they, are they precise bat, like granite? Are they?

• 1:40:30Speaker 02

  They're very finely crafted. I don't know if anybody actually measured them to determine, you know, precision or not. Uh, but I know there is a, like a famous building in St. Petersburg that has, uh, yeah, like this shit.

• 1:40:43Danny Jones?

  Holy moly.

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• 1:42:17Danny Jones?

  That's like eight foot tall.

• 1:42:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, something like that.

• 1:42:21Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:42:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, what the hell is that?

• 1:42:24Danny Jones?

  And that's one piece of granite.

• 1:42:26Speaker 02

  Well, by the looks of it.

• 1:42:28Danny Jones?

  Holy shit, dude.

• 1:42:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so one study I know, there is like a famous building.

• 1:42:34Danny Jones?

  How much does that weigh?

• 1:42:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, my guess is as good as yours.

• 1:42:39Danny Jones?

  That's insane. That's totally insane.

• 1:42:47Danny Jones?

  How many of those are there?

• 1:42:48Speaker 02

  I don't know. I mean, I've seen a couple. I've seen another one that has a foot in it, and it's smaller.

• 1:42:55Danny Jones?

  It's 48 tons. Good God. That's carved. That's carved, for sure.

• 1:43:02Danny Jones?

  The original block was supposed to be 160 tons before carving.

• 1:43:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, so on that note, there is a there is a famous monument in St. Petersburg, which is a monument to Peter the Great, and it's on the rock.

• 1:43:18Danny Jones?

  Thunderstone?

• 1:43:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, thunderstone. And the theory is it was brought from Karelia.

• 1:43:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah, from Finland, right?

• 1:43:25Speaker 02

  From Finland, basically, yeah. And when you look at it, it's just, I think I mentioned before, I don't believe that people were stupid and they were doing stupid work. So I think it's a stupid idea for, I'm sorry to say, hey, you know, bring me a rock from God knows where to put here. It's stupid, however you look at it. And even, okay, if somebody was that stupid to give that stupid order, how would you do it when there are no roads, no infrastructure?

• 1:43:52Danny Jones?

  Well, they they've documented how they moved that thunderstone, right? Like Ben, Ben explained it to me, how they built this rail system with bearings. And then they also built these giant ships, cart, or like giant rafts with warships on each side of them to move it. Oh, yeah, there you go.

• 1:44:08Speaker 02

  I think it's utter bullshit.

• 1:44:09Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:44:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. See, I mean, it's just it's just insults my intelligence, you know, this whole story insults my intelligence. I mean, I believe that, you know, somebody could have created documentation to make it look plausible. But there is an example from the recent history. In the same town, it was called Leningrad, you know, Soviet era. They wanted to erect a monument to the, in World War II, which was a granite obelisk.

• 1:44:40Speaker 02

  So it's a one piece of granite that they carved, I think in Karelia, which is next to Finland. And they brought it, you know, on these huge trucks and erected on one of the

• 1:44:51Speaker 02

  squares, city squares. And it's well documented how it was done. And it basically goes like this. Several like research institutions were working for, I think, here or two, on the logistics of it. How it would be carved, how it would be loaded, how it would be transported, you know, which roads is possible to take, which roads are impossible to take, you know, which bridges would hold if it's transported over water, how it would be unloaded and things of that nature. So it took like two years of planning and a year to execute and bring that obelisk and erected. And by the way, it was erected on a, interestingly, on a lead gasket, you know, so the contact between the foundation and the obelisk is good and it stays like

• 1:45:35Speaker 02

  solidly in one place. So if it took like two years to plan a year, execute, given all of the, you know, modern technology, when we have roads, you know, have cranes, you know, have trucks and all of that, you know, doing that with a rock, you know, 300 years ago, when none of that.

• 1:45:56Danny Jones?

  What was that thing, a thousand tons? I think that thing was a thousand tons. I think that they estimated that thing was the same, uh, the same size and weight as the unfinished obelisk of the pregnant woman in Egypt.

• 1:46:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, besides it's stupid, you know, why would you do it? I don't believe anybody's stupid besides, you know, people need to be paid, you know, how much money are you wasting on moving a rock?

• 1:46:20Danny Jones?

  Well, monumental type stuff was very important to these cultures.

• 1:46:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, but people are rational. I don't believe in the idea that people are irrational.

• 1:46:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but what if the king, you know, a king with a lot of money and a giant ego wants to show that his civilization is the best, he's gonna get all the people and...

• 1:46:39Speaker 02

  Well, I know what happens when that...

• 1:46:40Danny Jones?

  What is that sound?

• 1:46:42Speaker 02

  It's a motorcycle.

• 1:46:43Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:46:45Speaker 02

  You know what happens? What you're describing takes place. Another king is looking at the king who's gone nuts and he invades his country and takes over. Because, you know, when you undertake a project like that, you're pulling resources from everywhere, which means you don't have enough money or enough focus on maintaining military or, you know, guarding borders and people take advantage of it.

• 1:47:07Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:47:08Speaker 02

  You know, this happens all the time.

• 1:47:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:10Speaker 02

  So, I mean, it's just incompa- fundamental, and I could be wrong, you know, I'm just expressing my personal opinion. I do believe fundamentally that people are rational and people are smart overall, you know, as a... You know, physical ensemble, you know, it's a quantum system where rational and smart overall. So I don't think, you know, people do irrational things on that scale or stupid things for that matter, because everybody can count money. And that's why I think we underappreciate how smart ancient Egyptians were. And that's, you know, one thing I learned in the course of my, you know, vase project. I think my appreciation to the acumen, intellectual acumen of ancient Egyptians has increased tremendously.

• 1:47:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah, well, like, you know, our society and our culture today, um, our values are probably way different than their values were back then. You know, our values now, at least in the Western world, are all based on economics, you know, and getting, acquiring wealth and notoriety and recognition for shit. And at the high level at least. And back then, I don't think that was, I think, I don't think that was it. I think maybe back then it was, uh, one of their top values was getting closer to the gods or something, you know?

• 1:48:31Speaker 02

  Maybe, but economics is still, you know, you cannot take it out of the equation.

• 1:48:34Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:48:35Speaker 02

  Because I, I think of this, you know, let's say, you know, pyramids were constructed by manual labor, you know, let's just say, you know, go was the mainstream idea. Then, you know, all of the workers need to be fed. Imagine, you know, how much food you just need to produce just to feed this army of, of labors. And how much strain would that put on the, you know, agricultural, you know, production that you need to feed an army of workers? And there is no way around it because you cannot not feed your labor force. Because without energy, you know, you cannot move anything. And that, you know, goes about any project that involves like massive amount of people. You send an army somewhere. And

• 1:49:19Speaker 02

  with that army, you send like herds of ship and cattle and, and, you know, logistics with, with the carts of wheat and barley and whatnot, right?

• 1:49:28Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:49:28Speaker 02

  So you have to have food to feed your labor force. So if you don't, you know, they cannot do any work.

• 1:49:33Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:49:33Speaker 02

  And, you know, once you start accounting for that, a lot of projects just become prohibitively expensive. Because we often think, oh, you know, those are just slaves. You beat the slave, he does the work. No, the slave cannot work unless you give him food, because without food, he doesn't have strength. And energy.

• 1:49:50Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah, you're right about that.

• 1:49:54Danny Jones?

  So, um, so I'm curious, how does your work in in nuclear connect to this ancient stuff and some of these ancient megalithic stuff and these ancient artifacts?

• 1:50:08Speaker 02

  I'm glad you asked because I almost forgot about that. So when Ben approached me and showed me, you know, these vases. And of course, you know, I was blown away by how well they were made. And because I am open minded, you know, I started thinking about, you know, crazy stuff like maybe, you know, reptilian billions from other stellar systems were making them with their scaly hands. And if that was the case, of course, you know, they wouldn't use chisels or lathes. You know, they would use, you know, some other magic. And as a nuclear scientist, the thing that comes to mind is nuclear technology.

• 1:50:52Speaker 02

  Because everybody knows that there is so much more energy within a nucleus than in a chemical bond, it's not even funny. And it's really thousand times, if not 10,000 times more energy per unit mass.

• 1:51:11Speaker 02

  Which means if you are in advanced civilization, you probably have mastered in a nuclear science to the degree to where to you, it's like nothing.

• 1:51:22Speaker 02

  And with that in mind, it becomes possible to machine stuff by nuclear means. And that's where my nuclear machining hypothesis originated from.

• 1:51:33Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:51:35Speaker 02

  I started thinking if I could produce isotopes. And you know what isotopes are, right?

• 1:51:42Danny Jones?

  Uh, maybe you should give a broad definition of it.

• 1:51:45Speaker 02

  So every element in nature comes in several varieties. Like take iron, you know, there are several isotopes. It's still iron, but you know, they differ by the count of neutrons. Meaning, uh, one is slightly heavier or slightly lighter than the other. But any natural element is a mixture of isotopes. And some isotopes are benign in the sense that the only difference between them is just the count of neutrons. But in your body, in my body, in every object, you know, there is the same mixture of them. But some isotopes are not benign. They are radioactive. And this is particularly important in the course of nuclear engineering. So you build a power plant, you know, you put nuclear fuel in.

• 1:52:30Speaker 02

  And when that fuel decays, it produces a lot of neutrons that activate, meaning make new isotopes. So neutrons are kind of like a catalyst in nuclear science. Because they are absorbed by all elements differently. And when an element absorbs a neutron, it changes its isotopic composition. So one isotope transforms into another. And a lot of isotopes that are formed by neutron capture are already active. Meaning they emit gamma rays, they emit alpha particles, beta particles.

• 1:53:06Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:53:07Speaker 02

  And what that emission means, it means an emission of energy. And energy at a pretty significant level. So to put things in perspective, like a common type of radioactivity is alpha decay. Meaning when an element decays, isotope decays, it emits an alpha particle. And this alpha particle travels pretty much at a speed of light. Not quite, but you know, comparable to the speed of light. So when it hits something, it erodes a material it hits. Basically takes layers away. It's like a miniature projectile.

• 1:53:47Speaker 02

  And in the context of nanotechnology, this is known as, you know, nano machining or ion machining. So in fact, a lot of electron microscopes or a lot of semiconductor fabrication equipment comes with ion beams.

• 1:54:04Danny Jones?

  It's like when you see like in Chernobyl, when the meltdown happened in Chernobyl and they like tried flying the helicopter over it. The helicopter just like disintegrated.

• 1:54:14Speaker 02

  Well, I think it's an exaggeration, but in principle, that's possible, you know, if you're.

• 1:54:19Danny Jones?

  I thought that happened. It was in the show.

• 1:54:22Speaker 02

  Well, I would doubt it would have, you know, disintegrated just because it was exposed to radiation at the level that Chernobyl could produce it.

• 1:54:30Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 1:54:31Speaker 02

  But in principle, you know, if you have like a powerful enough nuclear reactor, yeah, you know, shit would just disintegrate, you know, entirely.

• 1:54:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:54:38Speaker 02

  So I would say, you know, the nuclear science in general, it's like the next frontier of knowledge. Because, you know, with it, you can do things that look like magic and you can make things disappear. You can make, you know, matter out of nothing and you can change, you know, lead to gold. You can, uh, I'll, I'll give you a more.

• 1:54:56Danny Jones?

  You can turn lead to gold?

• 1:54:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, that's what, you know, nuclear science is about.

• 1:55:00Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 1:55:00Speaker 02

  In practice.

• 1:55:01Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 1:55:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's been done. I mean, you don't get a lot of it.

• 1:55:05Danny Jones?

  On like a small, on a small.

• 1:55:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, unless you have like a very powerful reactor. But I'll, I'll, I'll give you this example. Uh, you know, like plutonium 239, which is a, you know, weapons-grade, you know, material.

• 1:55:18Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:55:19Speaker 02

  That's, you know, what, what you put in a plutonium bomb.

• 1:55:22Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:55:24Speaker 02

  That's a very valuable metal because unless you have like a critical amount of it,

• 1:55:32Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:55:32Speaker 02

  to where it will explode, you have like a small amount of it. The unique feature about it, it stays hot all the time, you know, red hot. So if, if you like go on the internet and you Google a picture of plutonium, you'll get a picture of a glowing, like chunk of metal. And that's what, you know, nuclear energy is about. It stays hot all the time, year after year after year, you know, decade after decade. Yeah, like that. Until it decays completely. It's just so full of nuclear energy that energy is coming out of it in terms of this alpha particle emission.

• 1:56:08Danny Jones?

  Right. How long does it stay like that?

• 1:56:11Speaker 02

  Years, decades.

• 1:56:13Danny Jones?

  And. And this is one of the problems, this is one of the major problems with nuclear power plants, right?

• 1:56:17Speaker 02

  Well.

• 1:56:18Danny Jones?

  This is what they say, that you have to like bury the nuclear material.

• 1:56:21Speaker 02

  I, I will get to it, but.

• 1:56:22Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:56:23Speaker 02

  What, what is unique about plutonium, so, sorry, 238, yeah. I mixed up with 239, is, uh.

• 1:56:33Speaker 02

  You send a satellite to space, let's say Voyager, right? It's too far to where solar panels aren't going to be any good. So how do you energize it? Well, you put a chunk of that in it and it stays hot. And you surround it with thermoelectric elements and you generate power.

• 1:56:49Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow, okay.

• 1:56:50Speaker 02

  And that's why it's it's super useful, you know, super safe. You know, this particular one plutonium 238.

• 1:56:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:57Speaker 02

  And in Russia, it's been used a lot, you know, to power polar stations and, you know, things of that nature. And that's what the magic about it is like a perpetual battery, you know, that chunk is going to produce you know, kilowatts of energy. Like day after day after day, you know, year after year after year for, you know, 10, 50 years and more. And, you know,

• 1:57:20Danny Jones?

  How hard is it to create?

• 1:57:23Speaker 02

  Uh, good question.

• 1:57:24Danny Jones?

  Do you, can you make this? Or does this have to come? How does it work? I don't understand.

• 1:57:28Speaker 02

  You make it in a, in a nuclear power plant, yeah.

• 1:57:30Danny Jones?

  So you make plutonium 238 in a power plant?

• 1:57:33Speaker 02

  Yes, okay. Yeah, you breed it.

• 1:57:35Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:57:37Speaker 02

  And I forgot where I was going with this. Oh, so, so, you know, to me, this looks like magic. You know, this is like the ultimate like magical artifact. You have a chunk of plutonium that constantly glows.

• 1:57:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:49Speaker 02

  But by the same token, like in my research, I use polonium 210, which is similar.

• 1:57:54Danny Jones?

  Plutonium 210?

• 1:57:55Speaker 02

  No, polonium.

• 1:57:56Danny Jones?

  Polonium, okay.

• 1:57:57Speaker 02

  Which is similar to plutonium. But the difference is polonium decays slowly compared to polonium. It kind of sounds the same plutonium, polonium, right? So plutonium decays slowly compared to polonium. So polonium takes like half life, meaning half of it is gone, like within like 238 days.

• 1:58:18Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:58:19Speaker 02

  Whereas for plutonium, it's, it's years. So this means if you have a sizable amount of polonium, the rate at which it emits energy is like a million times more.

• 1:58:35Danny Jones?

  Then plutonium.

• 1:58:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:58:37Danny Jones?

  But it just decays way faster.

• 1:58:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:58:39Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:58:40Speaker 02

  And that's, you know, so you compress time, right? So it gives off, you know, this nuclear energy at a rate that's a million times faster.

• 1:58:46Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:58:46Speaker 02

  So it decays faster, right? Meaning if you had microscopic, not macroscopic, macroscopic tangible quantity of polonium, you'd be able to like produce a ton of these alpha particles that if you could direct them somewhere, they would just, you know, make holes, remove material, you know, shave off material, basically obliterate.

• 1:59:10Danny Jones?

  Destroy shit.

• 1:59:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, destroy shit, yes. And I'm thinking if you were an advanced civilization, surely you mastered nuclear power and surely, you know, you can produce any isotope you want and surely you can produce isotopes that, you know, let's say emit alpha particles for the sake of machining, because you then you have non-contact machining, you don't have any cutters or borers, right? You have just this material and it will remove, you know, layers that you want to remove just by virtue of ablation.

• 1:59:38Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:59:39Speaker 02

  And this is not, you know, controversial, not fantastic, you know, we use it in ion beams, you know, we don't necessarily use it in with radio isotopes because we don't know how to direct, you know, this alpha particles, we don't have that, you know, technological, they just emitted in all directions. But it doesn't mean, you know, we can learn, you know, if we if we wanted to, right? And also we don't synthesize them in large quantities. One of the reasons it's expensive, you know, the other reason is it's regulated and the third reason is we don't know how to handle, you know, these materials, you know, haven't learned yet, but.

• 2:00:11Danny Jones?

  What was, what was the material that was in the demon core that killed that guy? That was plutonium, was it plutonium 239?

• 2:00:19Speaker 02

  I think it was 239, yes.

• 2:00:20Danny Jones?

  239?

• 2:00:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. So 238 is benign in the sense that it emits only alpha particles, it's not going to be useful to make a bomb by itself.

• 2:00:30Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:00:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, but 239, you know, you you collect enough of it, it's just going to explode because you have this runaway chain reaction. But that, you know, alpha emission was one idea because it's just one of the particles that can be emitted. The other particle is a beta particle or electron. So basically, when some isotopes decay, they emit either alpha particles, which is helium ions. Another possibility, when isotope decays, it emits beta particles, which is electron, high-energy electron. Basically, it's a source of electricity. So if you had a material like cobalt 60 or cobalt 57, and some others, they even used commercially for making like tiny nuclear batteries. Let's say you have a heart implant.

• 2:01:14Speaker 02

  You're not going to change batteries in a heart implant, right? You know, you don't want to open your chest to put a battery. What they do, they're starting now to make this tiny nuclear batteries. Really? That are powered by these isotopes that emit beta particles. And it's called beta voltages. And they use these now? Yes. The drawback of these is very low power. So you cannot run your iPhone on beta voltages yet. In principle, you could, you know, if you master, you know, the nuclear tech to the next level, in principle, you could. If you generated enough of these isotopes and it was economical enough. Because what happens is they constantly produce electricity in terms of this, you know, high-energy electrons.

• 2:01:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. And not only you can power something, but also, you know, these high-energy electrons, they tend to saturate the, you know, lattice of the material with electrons. And if you recall solid-state physics, we have ions, and then we have electrons. And electrons are kind of like a glue that holds the lattice of ions together. So if you add too many electrons into your lattice, you change the elastic properties of your material.

• 2:02:33Speaker 02

  So all of a sudden, the material that was solid may become unaplyable or malleable because it's just oversaturated with electrons. And that's a kind of a conjecture hypothesis with some experimental support. Because I don't know if you heard about the Hutchinson effect.

• 2:02:54Speaker 02

  So there is this crazy inventor in Canada who is known to have played with radio frequency equipment like radars and radio generators and coils. And in his experiments, he would, all of a sudden spontaneously, either metals would fuse or would crack, or metal would fuse with non-metal. It's like almost voodoo, but I've seen samples myself, so I know it hasn't been cooked. And the best explanation I've heard of it is, under certain conditions, you can oversaturate a solid-state lattice with electrons, and then the plastic properties of the materials change.

• 2:03:36Speaker 02

  So what idea I get from it, if you have a nuclear isotope that emits a lot of beta particles out of electrons, you can put it in contact with the body that you want to machine, and all of a sudden, a body that was hard becomes soft as putty. And then you can machine it without too much effort.

• 2:04:00Speaker 02

  So it's a different mechanism. So with alpha particles, you ablate, so you shave off layers by virtue of ions impacting and punching holes. But with electrons, you change elastic properties. And that's a transient change.

• 2:04:13Danny Jones?

  Oh, this is the Hutchinson effect?

• 2:04:17Danny Jones?

  So what's happening here, Steve?

• 2:04:20Speaker 03

  I think that's what he's talking about.

• 2:04:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a block of metal.

• 2:04:24Danny Jones?

  Whoa, and they're shooting it with beta particles?

• 2:04:28Speaker 02

  Just electromagnetic fields.

• 2:04:29Danny Jones?

  Just electromagnetic fields.

• 2:04:34Danny Jones?

  Oh, that's wild. A block of iron.

• 2:04:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's unbelievable.

• 2:04:43Speaker 02

  And that's what I'm saying. I think the answer is in nuclear technology.

• 2:04:46Danny Jones?

  So you think that they were using this nuclear technology to soften granite?

• 2:04:51Speaker 02

  I think it's possible. You know, I don't know. I can only speculate into what would happen in the past. But I'm thinking, you know, creatively, you know, as an engineer, what I would do if I wanted to accomplish. And two things come to mind. Yeah, I would use electrons to change the elastic properties of stone. And then I'd be able to machine and mold it. And especially that looks plausible in the context of Peru, where you have this, you know, polygonal masonry. And, you know, when I look at it, it clearly has, you know, superficial evidence of plastic deformation. And that's why I'm very supremely interested in going there and taking samples that I can study in my lab and my electron microscope and

• 2:05:34Speaker 02

  subject those samples to my nuclear instruments to see if I'll be able to spot signs, you know, markers of.

• 2:05:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah, let me ask you that. So, so what are the number one thing? Like, what are the top things that you would look for for evidence of nuclear radiation?

• 2:05:52Speaker 02

  Excellent question. Two things. One is obvious is gamma radiation.

• 2:06:02Speaker 02

  You know what light is. We all know what light is, right? But, you know, from the standpoint of physics, light is like visible light is just a chunk of electromagnetic spectrum that we can perceive with our eyes. The other chunk of electromagnetic spectrum is infrared, you know, which we perceive as heat. The other is radio waves, which we do not perceive, but, you know, we can emit, transmit them, you know, receive them using antennas. Another one is ultraviolet, which we perceive as suntan, sunburn. And then there is this invisible radiation, gamma rays, X-rays.

• 2:06:42Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:06:45Speaker 02

  So with our bodies, we cannot sense it, but we can sense it with the

• 2:06:48Danny Jones?

  We know it's there.

• 2:06:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, when I was there, we can we can detect it with nuclear detectors. And some of those detectors, you know, I manufacture myself. And when you have a detector like that, it gives you spectrum, gives you frequencies. And you can tell what are the energies that are emitted. And we're surrounded by a background radiation field. You know, shit coming from Earth, you know, there's shit in the air. But if you take a rock and put it next to the detector, and the rock would give gives off its own spectrum. And that's what geologists do, you know, they collect a rock, they put it in the spectrometer. And they can tell what radioactive elements that rock contains.

• 2:07:32Speaker 02

  Because there is a lot of radioactive materials around us, in your body, in my body, everywhere. It's just natural, it's just very small quantity. But you look at it and you say, OK, well, I've got some potassium forty, and I've got some uranium thorium, you know, radon.

• 2:07:48Speaker 02

  And that's like one of the things, the first things I looked personally. When I, you know, started thinking about it, you know, when I met Ben and then when I met, you know, Matt Bell. I took some of Matt's vessels and I put them in my spectrometers and was capturing spectra. To see if I would spot anything unusual.

• 2:08:08Danny Jones?

  OK.

• 2:08:09Speaker 02

  And initially, I thought I did. But then, you know, I talked to some, you know, experts, because any kind of measurement you make, there is a learning curve. And and it's takes a lot of knowledge and experience, how to interpret, you know, your measurement results. And that's, you know, one thing I've learned how to do in general, like across the engineering disciplines, whether it's viscosity of crude oil or, you know, nuclear radiation or

• 2:08:38Speaker 02

  Markers of disease, you know, anything that I worked on, you know, you learn how to measure, you learn how to interpret. So when I was starting, I didn't know how to interpret the results. So they looked like there was some, you know, peaks that I thought were unusual. But, you know, later I realized that they were not unusual. They were just, you know, artifacts of the measurement process. But long story short, so I measured some vessels that I borrowed from Matt Bell.

• 2:09:05Danny Jones?

  So you measured his granite bases?

• 2:09:07Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:09:07Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:09:08Speaker 02

  And I took like a portable version of my spectrometer to the Petri Museum in London. In London, I took some measurements there.

• 2:09:16Danny Jones?

  They let you do it?

• 2:09:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:09:17Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:09:18Speaker 02

  And I was very excited initially for the findings that I captured in the Petri Museum. I actually published on my website, you know, the spectra, because the pots seemed to emit, excuse me, gamma rays indicative of, yeah, indicative of lead. And I didn't know at the time that lead was actually a common element. You see in this, it's actually coal. It's the, excuse me, eye paint Egyptians used.

• 2:09:57Danny Jones?

  What is, what is that made out of?

• 2:09:58Speaker 02

  That's alabaster or travertine.

• 2:10:01Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:10:02Speaker 02

  I actually bought that, you know, it's.

• 2:10:04Danny Jones?

  What, oh, wow.

• 2:10:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's in my collection now.

• 2:10:06Danny Jones?

  Is this modern, is it modern?

• 2:10:07Speaker 02

  No, that's Jenin.

• 2:10:10Danny Jones?

  It's what?

• 2:10:11Speaker 02

  It's Jenin, ancient Egyptian, yeah.

• 2:10:13Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:10:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'll talk about that in a moment too.

• 2:10:16Danny Jones?

  It's so tiny.

• 2:10:17Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. A lot of these are tiny. So basically, that's kind of the first step. You look at the, you know, gamma, and I looked and I didn't find anything. And recently I bought a much more, you know, expensive and state of the art instrument for gamma detection, which was like a godsend. Usually I buy shit on eBay. And for years I've been watching it, it was never like a good detector. It was always, I mean, a 30 year old junk. And finally, there was a modern detector, so I bought it. So that was a gift from God, which is very accurate, you know, very. Like the best thing. So I took some measurements and, you know, I didn't see anything on the pots.

• 2:11:00Speaker 02

  But it doesn't mean, you know, I will not find anything on, you know, other samples. So I'm very interested in taking the detector, let's say to Peru, or actually to Egypt, and see what I will detect on site. Because if pots weren't, you know, made, you know, using nuclear technology, it doesn't mean some other, you know, stones.

• 2:11:20Danny Jones?

  So if these pots were made 5,000 years ago using nuclear technology, you would still see the isotopes on here with this detector?

• 2:11:29Speaker 02

  Yes. So one thing you would see is, as I said, the gamma spectrum. And the other thing, you would see the change in isotopic composition. That's the other marker. So basically, you take a tiny sample of stone from,

• 2:11:41Danny Jones?

  Ah.

• 2:11:42Speaker 02

  and you run it through another instrument, and you would see how the isotopic ratios changed.

• 2:11:47Danny Jones?

  So, right. So if it was softened and shaped from nuclear,

• 2:11:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:11:51Danny Jones?

  it would change the composition?

• 2:11:53Speaker 02

  I would expect it to change its isotopic composition, not maybe so much the elemental composition, although it might change elemental composition as well, but the change would be small.

• 2:12:02Danny Jones?

  And did you take two samples, like one vase of red granite, another chunk of red granite that was not touched? And, and?

• 2:12:07Speaker 02

  That's what you have to do, you know, I haven't done that.

• 2:12:10Danny Jones?

  You haven't done that yet?

• 2:12:10Speaker 02

  No, I haven't done it.

• 2:12:11Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:12:12Speaker 02

  I would like to do something like that, but, you know, with samples, let's say, from the polygonal masonry in Peru. And that's what actually I asked Ben if he would collect some, some material for me for analysis, because, you know, he's there right now. But, you know, I don't believe that the stone vases were, worked with any magical technology anymore, and, and we can talk about that. But I do believe that we need to study the megaliths, and particularly the ones that exhibit the, you know, plastic deformations.

• 2:12:43Danny Jones?

  What about like, um, like that giant 1,000-ton obelisk that was never finished? There's giant scoop marks out of it.

• 2:12:51Speaker 02

  Well, I'd like to study samples of that.

• 2:12:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:54Speaker 02

  So.

• 2:12:54Danny Jones?

  And there's scoop marks everywhere.

• 2:12:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And that's what, what makes it interesting to me, because, you know, I don't believe in the diorite, you know, pounder, because it goes against, you know, my belief that people aren't stupid, right? So when I hear this theory that sounds stupid, that somebody, you know, with a pounding block was pounding there, I don't, I don't believe any civilization was up for doing stupid work. Okay, maybe it was done with diorite powders, but not the way it is described. You see what I mean?

• 2:13:24Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:13:24Speaker 02

  So I genuinely believe in human ingenuity and inventiveness to where nobody, you remember the iRobot movie?

• 2:13:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:34Speaker 02

  When, you know, Will Smith was talking to this lady and they were standing in front of the army of robots. And he asked her, you know, how would you find out? The guy we're looking for, she says, well, we gotta interrogate all of them, you know, cross-reference the responses. How long will it take? A couple of years. He said, you get started.

• 2:13:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:52Speaker 02

  And he shot, you know, the gun and the robot moved and that's how he knew. That's a classic example of human ingenuity. We don't do stupid work, you know. We're lazy. You know, we need too much food. If you have an army of guys with diorite powders, you gotta feed them, you know, where are you gonna find food to feed them? You know, they're not gonna find food themselves.

• 2:14:15Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:14:15Speaker 02

  And without food, they're gonna die. So it's gonna be expensive. So, but, but you're right, you know, that's the kind of sample I need to study. And that's why I'm kinda excited about the idea of going to Egypt and taking my instruments there and making some in situ measurements because if there are any trace or reactivity, I'll be able to pick it up.

• 2:14:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah. What are these two vases that you brought?

• 2:14:38Speaker 02

  Okay, well, I don't know if you wanna talk about the vase project or not, but I pretty much closed the book on it. I think I know how they were made. And I can tell you.

• 2:14:49Danny Jones?

  You think you know how the vases were made?

• 2:14:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:14:51Danny Jones?

  All of the vases? Like these ones?

• 2:14:56Speaker 02

  I know how two classes of vases have been made and I have a pretty solid judgment about which vases are genuine and which are fake.

• 2:15:05Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:15:06Speaker 02

  So we can go into that rabbit hole.

• 2:15:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah, let's do that. I have a couple of questions, though, before we do that about the nuclear stuff. One, are you aware of the the nuclear isotopes that were discovered?

• 2:15:27Danny Jones?

  I think on Mars, there was a nuclear, a specific isotope on Mars that was discovered that matched something they find only in on sites on Earth where we've done nuclear tests with atomic bombs.

• 2:15:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I heard about that xenons.

• 2:15:42Danny Jones?

  Xenon, yes, that's where it is. Xenon 129 or something like that?

• 2:15:45Speaker 02

  Yes, it's actually a very interesting story, and I'm glad you reminded me of it, because there is some other thing I wanted to tell you about isotopes, which I think is more interesting than anything else. But it's exactly, you know, the marker we're looking for in terms of showing that a man-made nuclear reaction took place as opposed to natural. There is a list of isotopes known as technogenic isotopes. They are not found in nature for two reasons. Either they're like too weird, or they're too short-lived, meaning if they are produced naturally, it would have decayed. And to the point, you will not observe them.

• 2:16:28Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:16:29Speaker 02

  So what was found on Mars, you know, fits this, you know, technogenic hypothesis, because it's an unusual isotope, and it's, I think, a fairly short-lived moon. So it's definitely an interesting case. You know, I cannot comment more on it, because I didn't study it closely, but it really, you know, caught my attention. And that's, you know, what I'm looking for in this, you know, Egyptian samples, or any kind of samples from the man-made artifacts that I would like to study. I'd like to find similar traces. Because if I find something like that. It's pretty much a smoking gun.

• 2:17:04Danny Jones?

  Hmm. So xenon, what do you know about xenon? Uh, is that, is that only a manufactured? Or is that, can that happen natural?

• 2:17:12Speaker 02

  Well, xenon is present naturally in atmosphere. It's like a trace amount.

• 2:17:16Danny Jones?

  Steven, find the exact isotope, the xenon, what, and the number that goes after it that was found, uh, discovered in nuclear, under nuclear explosion sites. And that was also found on Mars.

• 2:17:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, but that particular xenon is a known product of fission. So when you have nuclear fission, which happens in nuclear reactors or during an atomic bomb explosion, you get this particular xenon isotope produced.

• 2:17:40Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:17:41Speaker 02

  In like unnatural commodities.

• 2:17:44Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:17:44Speaker 02

  And that's how we can tell that a nuclear explosion took place. Now, in the case of Mars, we don't know what other processes might produce it.

• 2:17:56Speaker 02

  So therefore, you know, we cannot say definitely it's, it's been a nuclear explosion. What we can say, it's consistent with nuclear explosion, but you know, we don't know enough about physics of Mars to rule out other possibilities. But you know, I'm not an expert, so I cannot.

• 2:18:12Danny Jones?

  Steven, scroll up. What did you search for? Let me see, let me see what you typed in. Xenon isotope found in nuclear explosions. Okay. Um, type in Mars after that, see what it comes up with.

• 2:18:24Danny Jones?

  I'm curious. Yeah, Mars. M A R S.

• 2:18:30Danny Jones?

  There you go. Uh, the isotope xenon, okay, xenon 129 is found in higher abundance on Mars than on Earth. And this excess is cited as evidence of past nuclear explosions on the planet?

• 2:18:43Danny Jones?

  That's insane. Proponents of this theory suggest that the Martian atmosphere's xenon and krypton isotopic ratios are similar to a mixture of Earth's natural xenon and xenon produced by human-made nuclear testing. Yeah, this is what, this is what compels all the theories of like an ancient, uh, nuclear catastrophe on Mars.

• 2:19:03Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:19:04Danny Jones?

  And the theory that we could have come from Mars, like human beings, we could have terraformed this planet and turned it into something that was habitable by creating the moon and the tides and the, all that stuff to make it, to make this a, uh, this, this planet was basically the, the target of whoever came from Mars is like a breakaway civilization and we evolved.

• 2:19:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, there are point of signs pointing to that. And, you know, don't get me started on the subject of the moon.

• 2:19:31Danny Jones?

  I heard a Harvard astrophysicist talking about this yesterday. Like, it doesn't seem like it's, it seems like it's becoming more mainstream.

• 2:19:37Speaker 02

  Well, I think we ought to discuss ideas and we ought to look for evidence. And when you find evidence for an idea, like in this case, it becomes more interesting. But then you got to consider alternatives because the way, you know, we pass judgments in science is not, you know, dissimilar to the court of law. So you have parties that are arguing, you know, did he kill this person? Did he not, right? So each party presents their theory.

• 2:20:00Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 2:20:00Speaker 02

  And at the end of the day, it needs to be beyond reasonable doubt, which means that, you know, we considered alternatives and we ruled them out. So it's never good to say, you know, he killed it because, you know, we found the gun. It's not enough because there could be other explanations.

• 2:20:14Danny Jones?

  Sure, otherwise it's just a religion.

• 2:20:16Speaker 02

  Right, and, you know, with these situations, we got to look at their alternatives. And, but what I really wanted to mention, nearly forgot to, is in the case of nuclear isotopes, something else becomes possible. You know, how these blocks were moved? Because that's, it's a big question. We have these multitone blocks. How the hell were they moved 500 miles from Oswin Quarry, you know, all the way to Giza Plateau, right?

• 2:20:41Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:20:42Speaker 02

  And the thing is, you know, that Earth is not just, you know, a planet. It's a planet that has an electric field. You know, we have thunderstorms, right? You know, Tesla was all about electricity. It's not controversial at all that we live in a planet that produces a pretty strong electric field. Meaning the surface of the planet we stand on is negatively charged, normally, normally. And the ionosphere is positively charged. And we live in this, you know, pretty strong electric field that just charges itself, you know, during thunderstorms.

• 2:21:23Speaker 02

  We all know that. What we underappreciate is that we can put this electric field to good work. And in fact, there are species of spiders on this planet that can sense the electric field. And when they detect, because it fluctuates during the day, but when it's at the strongest, they can sense it and then they deploy the piece of spider web that is negatively charged. And then negative charges repulse each other. So the charge of the ground, which is negative, pushes on the charge that the spider deploys, which is also negative. And then the spider floats, levitates, literally.

• 2:22:08Speaker 02

  And the way they discovered is the spiders were found on ships, like oceanic ships, like thousands and thousands of miles away. And it was baffling, you know, scientists, you know, how these spiders end up there. So they collected a bunch of them and they put them in a tin can, basically, with electric fields applied. And when they started, you know, raising the raising the strengths of the field, at some point, spider's behavior changed. They sensed that the field was strong enough, so they started deploying the spider webs. And when the field was strong enough, they started floating. And then when they killed the field, you know, the spiders basically fell, fell to the floor. Yeah, this is a fairly recent discovery.

• 2:22:52Speaker 02

  It's not controversial, it is very well known. Yeah, these are the spiders, exactly. Yep. So you see, nature takes advantage of the fact that the Earth is electrically charged. And these clever spiders, they use it to float, defeating the gravity, but not in a fantastic way, just relying on electrostatic.

• 2:23:13Speaker 02

  So, once I started thinking about isotopes, about the first thing that crossed my mind, you know, shit, you take these beta emitters and what they do, they emit copious amount of negative charge. So if you produce these isotopes and let's say you put them on a craft, you know, the craft would float in Earth's, you know, gravity just because the static charge on the craft is pushing against the static charge of the Earth and you get this, you know, repulsion of Coulomb charges and the craft would levitate. You know, granted, you'll need to replenish the charge. So either you have a generator, we have this radioactive isotope that's continually emitting beta particles. And then it becomes possible, you know, to apply this isotope, let's say, to a stone you wish to transport.

• 2:23:57Speaker 02

  And all of a sudden, you know, the stone would lose its weight. But not, you know, because of some magic or whatnot, but because this isotope decays and charges the stone to an immense, you know, negative charge to where the field of the Earth, you know, pushes it up, you know, the electric field of the Earth. Same as in the case of the spider. Except in the case of the spider, you don't need nuclear science because spider weighs, you know, next to nothing, right? But, you know, a huge giant stone block would require a substantial charge and you can develop that charge by, you know, coating, let's say, the block with this, you know, nuclear isotope that's producing beta particles. And it's producing them as it decays. So at some point, it will wear off and the stone, you know, would settle.

• 2:24:42Speaker 02

  So you could, but how would you move it? I mean, you're just pushing it. So you could hover it and just push it? Right, basically. Kind of like a ship. You know, a ship weighs who knows how many tons and it's not that difficult, you know, to push it off the dock. So I think it's the same idea. And maybe, you know, the side effect was that the stones were, you know, turning softer in the process just because the crystalline lattice was overwhelmed. But I think, you know, if we're fantasizing about, you know, some advanced civilization, you know, conducting megalithic construction, I think that's how they would do it. Because it's entirely, you know, within the realm of possible and, you know, the spiders show us how it's done. Yeah. But the...

• 2:25:28Speaker 02

  Even there are some places on Earth, like Gobi Desert, where the field, electric field is so strong naturally that if you go there, you know, the hair will stand on your head. Gobi, it's in Mongolia.

• 2:25:39Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:25:39Speaker 02

  It's China, Mongolia, I think it's spelled G O B Y.

• 2:25:42Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:25:43Speaker 02

  Or G B, G O B I.

• 2:25:45Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:25:45Speaker 02

  And, and there are videos that people post when they go there, and the field is so strong, you know, your hair stands and you hear crackling. And, and there is a danger that you're gonna be struck by lightning.

• 2:25:57Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 2:25:58Speaker 02

  Yes, because, you know, the, the field is so strong.

• 2:26:00Danny Jones?

  Wow. Is it like, super high altitude?

• 2:26:03Speaker 02

  I don't know about the altitude.

• 2:26:05Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:26:07Speaker 02

  But, uh, you know, it's known phenomenon and it's, you know, considered hell's heathered because, you know, of, of the discharge that, that might materialize and get hit by, by lightning. But that's what also happens, you know, during a thunderstorm, right? So you have these charges that discharge naturally. And in fact, you know, part of the reason why clouds hang in the air is the droplets are statically charged. So they're floating in the Earth's electric field. You know, this entire cloud is pushed up by the electric field of the Earth. And the reason you have rain is because, you know, these charges that cancel each other and all of a sudden cloud, you know, drops.

• 2:26:47Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:26:48Speaker 02

  And, and basically becomes rain. So this is all like part of, uh, you know, natural processes that we're aware of, but we're not, you know, using them for engineering, for whatever reason. And that's, uh, something I'm very excited to, to use for engineering purposes because all of a sudden, you know, there is an idea of how you make, you know, things float, like in Star Wars, except, you know, you don't use magic.

• 2:27:11Danny Jones?

  How could you go about testing something like this?

• 2:27:14Speaker 02

  Um, actually, uh, there is a way, and funny enough, in my, in the course of my nuclear research, you know, one of the offshoots of my, you know, reactor development, I worked with oil. I think I mentioned.

• 2:27:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:28Speaker 02

  That my reactor's field was, uh... With mineral oil. And when you run that oil through dielectric tubes like Teflon, you have friction of one dielectric against the other one. And that's a principle of Wondergraph generator, where a belt rubs against a roller and the charges separate and you have like massive charge buildup. And when I, that wasn't my plan, but you know, when I, for the first time, I powered my reactor and I needed to filter the oil and the oil went through the filter and through these tubes. So much charge was developed that you know, the surface of oil inside my reactor curved like a, like a moon crescent.

• 2:28:12Speaker 02

  It wasn't flat anymore. It was like very, very concave because oil was clinging to the sides of the metal vessel because there was so much charge in the oil. And on some of my fittings, so some of my pipes were metal and some of my pipes were just regular hydraulic lines, which are in rubber. And there was so much potential buildup over them that you know, a spark was jumping on the outside surface. And I couldn't figure this out. So I'm pumping and I see this, you know, crackling and flashes of light, like what the hell is going on? And then I realized, oh shit, you know, I'm developing this super strong, you know, electric, electrostatic charges just by pushing oil, you know, through a dielectric medium. And I thought, shit, you know, I could use it, you know,

• 2:28:56Speaker 02

  to charge something, you know, like I just described and see if I can defeat the gravity just by compensating it with electrostatic repulsion. And that's on my to-do list to try, you know, later this year or maybe, you know, sometime next year because it's an easy thing to do. You know, if you know how to push oil through, you know, through plastic tubes, basically. Wow. So, so yeah, maybe I'll be able to get levitation to work if I don't get infusion to work. But you know, that's one of the things that interests me and this somehow all, you know, meshes within, within history because one thing kind of excites the thinking in the other direction. And then you start thinking, oh, how they could have moved stone?

• 2:29:39Speaker 02

  And then you realize, oh, they could have used, you know, static electricity we all know about. We just don't utilize it. And that's another thing I wanted to mention. Kind of human engineering approaches static electricity as nuisance. So we work to get rid of it. And instead, we rely on this, you know, AC instead, you know, which is alternating currents with no static charges. But, you know, if we changed our thinking and stopped treating, you know, static electricity as nuisance, we could actually, you know, build levitation off it and we could build like tractor beams and who knows what? Because electric force is so strong.

• 2:30:22Speaker 02

  Because, well, when you think of it, what makes us able to detect Voyager spacecraft that is billion of miles away? It's the motion of electrons on a tiny antenna back and forth. So we have a handful of electrons, billion miles away, that move back and forth and we're able to sense their motion here on Earth. Just because the force is so strong, we're so strongly connected by terms of, you know, electric fields. If we just, you know, allowed our thinking to shift from alternating currents, you know, towards static charges and not try to compensate for them. Because there are like anecdotes when you say, I have a factory that makes a polyethylene wrap.

• 2:31:08Speaker 02

  So you have like a giant roller on that wrap. And, and when you unroll polyethylene, you have charge separation and static electricity is so strong that if you don't do the like anti-static measures, the birds would be sucked into the roller. Cats, you know, rats, you know, people, because, you know, the charges are so strong because, you know, you spin it fast. So, so we know capabilities there, we just work to get rid of it as opposed to harness. And that's kind of what I'm proposing and I think it might be easier, you know, if you mastered nuclear science better, because then you can produce static charges on demand. You know, there is a lot of conspiracy that, you know, government might already have it because, you know,

• 2:31:53Speaker 02

  we have this into UFOs and unexplained crafts. So some people would say, oh, because, you know, government have this black ops and, you know, secret scum work projects and they've figured this shit out and...

• 2:32:06Speaker 02

  Initially, it sounds like bullshit, but then when you realize, oh, you know, maybe they mastered nuclear technology and not telling us about it. Maybe they're able to generate static charges and maybe, you know, the next generation crafts that we interpret as UFOs are really, you know, built on that technology, is able to generate, you know, electricity on the fly. And, you know, that that compensates for its gravity. You have a craft that's hovering or flying, not because it has engines that are working, you know, to move air or, you know, jet engines.

• 2:32:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:37Speaker 02

  But because it's producing electricity that's compensating, you know, basically acting against the charge of the earth and balancing the craft in that way. So I think it's a very fruitful idea for research. And in fact, it's particularly easier to-

• 2:32:53Danny Jones?

  Someone will pay you a visit if you get too far down that rabbit hole.

• 2:32:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I think it's even easier to implement if you have like a tunnel. Because in a tunnel, you can actually control a field.

• 2:33:03Speaker 05

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• 2:33:34Speaker 02

  And you can boost Earth's field and you can have object, you know, levitate through tunnel because you can control the strength of the field.

• 2:33:41Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:33:43Speaker 02

  Well, it's-

• 2:33:44Danny Jones?

  Wild.

• 2:33:45Speaker 02

  A whole subject, yes.

• 2:33:46Danny Jones?

  All right, let's go to these bases. You figured out how they're made.

• 2:33:49Speaker 02

  I think so. Yeah, and unfortunately for ancient tech, I think the explanation is trivial.

• 2:33:58Speaker 02

  But let me show you a few, actually. I brought a few. You know, this is Matt's vase, by the way, which is very representative from

• 2:34:10Speaker 02

  uh, from the vases that I studied, you know, personally at the Petri Museum and in Matt's collection.

• 2:34:16Danny Jones?

  Is this one, have you measured this one?

• 2:34:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:34:18Danny Jones?

  How precise is this one?

• 2:34:19Speaker 02

  It's uh, consistent with manual precision.

• 2:34:22Danny Jones?

  It just looks like it was made with clay, like someone pinch potted it.

• 2:34:26Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 2:34:26Danny Jones?

  Especially these little, whatever these little handles are.

• 2:34:29Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. I would say, uh, it's made by grinding, you know, I'll show you another one. You know, this one I bought, so this is mine, and this is also like finely made.

• 2:34:40Danny Jones?

  Where did you buy it?

• 2:34:41Speaker 02

  This one I bought on eBay, believe it or not, and I was able to run some tests on it to show that it's genuine, and I'll talk about it.

• 2:34:48Danny Jones?

  To, to show that it's genuine?

• 2:34:49Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:34:50Danny Jones?

  Where, where is it allegedly from?

• 2:34:52Speaker 02

  Uh, Egypt, of course.

• 2:34:53Danny Jones?

  From underneath the, the?

• 2:34:55Speaker 02

  I don't know where it was found. It's got like a provenance that lists the gallery that sold it, but uh,

• 2:35:00Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:35:01Speaker 02

  I ran some tests, I know this is pretty nasty. This is an example from a private collector, his name is Jordan Morris, he lives in uh, Australia. He, he had, he bought like seven or eight of these, and he sent a few of them to me to study. I think this is limestone. This is also pretty nasty, so I was able to determine that. And this is very finely made.

• 2:35:26Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:35:28Speaker 02

  And uh,

• 2:35:29Danny Jones?

  This is crazy.

• 2:35:29Speaker 02

  Of course, uh, you've seen this one, right, which was also bought. And I'll show you two more.

• 2:35:38Speaker 02

  So one is modern and one is ancient, and I'm pretty sure you'll be able to tell which one is which.

• 2:35:43Danny Jones?

  One is modern and one is ancient.

• 2:35:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, and both are alabaster, which is not really alabaster, it's uh, it's called alabaster, but it's travertine or calcite.

• 2:35:52Danny Jones?

  This one's ancient?

• 2:35:53Speaker 02

  Yes. Cause it's better made, right?

• 2:35:55Danny Jones?

  I picked out the one that looked more perfect.

• 2:35:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:35:59Speaker 02

  And the other one is modern.

• 2:36:00Danny Jones?

  And you can feel the outside of this, how it's kinda crude.

• 2:36:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, and of course, you know, this is like 20 bucks. So in Egypt, it costs even less than that, but there is an industry where they make alabaster vases using the same ancient technique, you know, they used for thousands of years. And they're making the tourist vases, and some are better, some are worse. But I bought a real cheap one, you know, just to get the quality.

• 2:36:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:36:28Speaker 02

  But a long story short, I would ask Steve to pull up a few pictures, if you wouldn't mind.

• 2:36:37Speaker 02

  Is it that slideshow? Yes, if you wouldn't mind. So, you know, I was really inspired by this whole, you know, vase talk to really dive deep into it. Because I, I don't know, it's just something about it really ignited my interest, because I like math. And to me, it's a mathematical problem. You know, you can answer the question of how this were made by looking at the mathematical properties of the 3D scans. And I was fortunate that, you know, Matt Bell agreed to work with me and he shared, you know, a bunch of CT scans of his vessels, you know, with me that I was able to study and develop a metrological technique, basically a mathematical

• 2:37:21Speaker 02

  algorithm that that can tell me what's happening as far as how this vase was made. And the first thing I've done, I've determined, or rather defined a quality metric, is when you look at a vessel, let's say, you know, this modern vessel, or let's say this ancient vessel, you know, how can you characterize it? And the typical metric that we use when we machine is tolerance, right? And we say that something is machine to a certain tolerance, and I think it's not a particularly useful thing for archaeological objects, because we don't know what the blueprint for it was, right? So was it precisely made, not precisely

• 2:38:04Speaker 02

  made? It's impossible to tell unless you have a blueprint. So what I did instead, I developed a quality metric, which is a combination of concentricity and circularity, which is by slicing the 3D model.

• 2:38:17Speaker 02

  of a vessel if it's like rotational symmetric you get more or less circles yeah and how circular those slices are that's your circularity right how well aligned they are you know that's your concentricity and what I've done I've scanned like almost 200 vessels about 60 or 70 modern ones you know like this one like this granite vase you know which is run of the mill you know from China for 40 bucks made out of solid granite how is that made turned on a lathe but not using like a metal cutter using diamond coated wheel oh wow so for cutters they use diamond coated wheels okay and this one was turned on a lathe because this is like calcite

• 2:39:02Speaker 02

  this is um this is called like Pakistani onyx but it's it's really you know not onyx it's calcite it just looks like onyx but this was turned in a lace using metal cutter and this was turning using a diamond wheels so I scanned about 100 of modern objects you know some like this some like this right

• 2:39:23Speaker 02

  some handmade so I bought like 30 handmade objects just to get a sample so this was done on a computerized CNC type deal okay this was done manually on a lathe but you know manually without CNC this was CNC this was in a manual lathe work got it and this is like an entirely manual production okay and I've built a chart so let me see let's scroll down

• 2:39:52Speaker 02

  oh you okay there is a chart there I think slide number 13 there you go yeah I think that's a pretty telling chart so what you see here is three types of objects yellow blue and red and yellow are all of the modern objects

• 2:40:15Speaker 02

  you know these vases that are made on CNC or on lathe red are all of the in a manual you know this that I bought from Egypt or made by other artists by hand so I know for a fact you know the red triangles are made by hand okay and the blue ones are all of the objects I measured in the Petri Museum And what we see that the blue, red, uh, blue, uh, squares are entirely, you know, the same distribution as the red triangles. Yeah. And completely is not matching at all the distribution of yellow dots.

• 2:40:55Speaker 02

  So what it tells me, you know, without any doubt, is that the, you know, machine-made quality is clearly distinguishable from a handmade quality in terms of, you know, concentricity and circularity when you represent it this way. So this chart is basically, is able to expose or tell apart machine work from, you know, manual work. Right. Because on a machine, your circularity is, concentricity is far greater. And that's why, you know, your yellow points are grouped, you know, towards the lower corner. Okay. So it tells you it's higher quality. And none of the, you know, Petri Museum objects is, you know, nearly, is remotely in that area. Okay.

• 2:41:39Speaker 02

  Which, uh, if we go down, you know, one slide, there is a, another interesting observation. It's slide 14. Yeah, good. So this, uh, is a map of how the outer surface was ground or made, you know, versus the inner surface. Okay. And once again, the yellow area is the, you know, machine-made objects made on a lathe. The red are, you know, the manual objects that, that are made by, you know, Egyptians and other artists by hand, by just grinding and turning it longer. And the blue one is the Petri.

• 2:42:15Speaker 02

  And you can see that the blue is, you know, separate from everything else. And without, you know, going into too much detail, what, you know, the left chart, I think it's for the outer surface and the right one is for the inner surface. Yeah, that's how they're grouped. It's telling us that the, in the case of the outer surface, the object was turned. So when they were...

• 2:42:38Speaker 02

  So, so take this pre-denastic object.

• 2:42:41Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:42:41Speaker 02

  So when they were making the outer surface, they were turning this object and they were grinding it against a grinding block. And that's what, you know, this first chart is telling us because the circularity is poor, but concentricity is okay. And that's what you get when you turn an object because the entire object is on the same axis. It's turning as a whole.

• 2:43:02Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:43:02Speaker 02

  So good concentricity, but poor circularity because it's rubbing against, you know, a rubbing stone that's just set next to it. And it's not like a particularly precise, you know, setup. And then that's what you get. The situation is more interesting with the inner surface because we see very good circularity and poor concentricity, which is consistent with grinding using a grinding bit. Because grinding bit, you know, turns on the axis, you know, pretty regularly will give you a very nice circle. But as you move the bit, because it's manually positioned, every time it repositions and you lose this initial alignment.

• 2:43:41Speaker 02

  So therefore, you know, from, from these charts, the inescapable conclusion is that the outer surface is shaped by turning the rock or the object itself against a grinding block. Whereas the inner object is, surface is shaped by turning the grinder, you know, against, you know, the surface of the, of the object. So then I took the mats vessels and I, you know, ran them, you know, through this chart.

• 2:44:09Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:44:10Speaker 02

  And you can see they broadly group into two categories. You know, one category is the bottom left corner. That is, you know, 100% you know, consistent with modern machining.

• 2:44:23Speaker 02

  There is no difference. Whereas the rest of the object, you know, is, you know, pretty much consistent with manual labor or with what I found at the Petri.

• 2:44:31Danny Jones?

  These are all mats vessels?

• 2:44:32Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah, those, they, they were then. Those that I was given scans of.

• 2:44:38Danny Jones?

  Now, what is the predynastic, the blue? What is that?

• 2:44:41Speaker 02

  That's, that's the, you know, Petri Museum objects.

• 2:44:43Danny Jones?

  Petri Museum objects.

• 2:44:44Speaker 02

  That's how I classify that type of stonework.

• 2:44:47Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:44:47Speaker 02

  I call it predynastic because that's where it's originated.

• 2:44:50Danny Jones?

  But Matt's are also predynastic, right?

• 2:44:52Speaker 02

  Majority of his objects are, right. So I'm able to, so by applying, you know, this metrological technique that I developed, I'm able to justify that the vast majority of his objects are genuine because they're aligned with the predynastic quality.

• 2:45:04Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:45:04Speaker 02

  However, unfortunately for, you know, the proponents or advocates of the ancient machining hypothesis, I also submit and, and submit on the basis of, of my findings that the most precise objects from his collections and for that matter, from the other collections I was able to look at are entirely consistent with modern machining. So I believe that those aren't genuine objects. I believe that those are made in modern times. Meaning, you know, last in a hundred, two hundred years.

• 2:45:33Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:45:34Speaker 02

  Because, you know, when I look at them, you know, they group.

• 2:45:36Danny Jones?

  The bottom left.

• 2:45:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, the bottom left. They group exactly separately, you know, they group exactly as modern objects are and they're not at all consistent, you know, with the rest of the bases in the study.

• 2:45:47Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:45:48Speaker 02

  And, you know, granted, I haven't scanned every single, you know, object in a museum, right? So I cannot, yeah, say, you know, I've looked at every single one, right?

• 2:45:57Danny Jones?

  How many roughly did you, did you look at?

• 2:45:58Speaker 02

  I scanned twenty museum objects and I looked at overall, like nearly one hundred objects in private collections.

• 2:46:06Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:46:06Speaker 02

  You know, majority from Matt's collection, but a good deal from, you know, Jordan Morris's collection and

• 2:46:11Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:46:12Speaker 02

  Another gentleman I met on, on internet also sent me his collection, which are also scanned.

• 2:46:17Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:46:17Speaker 02

  And, and every time the objects, you know, fall into two categories. If there is like nothing in between, it's either like the bottom left corner where it's like modern machining. Or it's, you know, this general, you know, cloud that coincides with both manual made or, you know, predynastic quality. And I think the conclusion is inescapable. The finely made objects, they, you know, they are unprovenance. So we don't know where they came from, right? They're alleged to be of.

• 2:46:46Danny Jones?

  The bottom left, you don't know.

• 2:46:48Speaker 02

  Of ancient Egyptian origin, but you know, we don't know. We don't know where they were found and when they look like modern. I think the arm warden is basically when it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's, you know, ought to be a duck.

• 2:47:01Danny Jones?

  Now, do those ones in the bottom left that are perfectly machined, do those have these little handles that are built into them?

• 2:47:07Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:47:09Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:47:11Speaker 02

  And, you know, to me, this situation is not surprising because, you know, Egyptian antiquities is the most forged artifact in history.

• 2:47:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:47:20Speaker 02

  It's been known for hundreds of years. And even, you know, to this day, you know, the subject of authenticity is the most one widely discussed. Because the most recent example is, I think, Barcelona Museum. They purchased a bunch of their Egyptian antiquities on open markets. And they've been criticized by, you know, basically buying fakes because Egyptologists know that a lot of, you know, high-profile purchases end up being fake in terms of Egyptian antiquities. And there are particular antiquities dealers that are more notoriously for selling fakes to museums like British Museum or, you know, Berlin Museum. And later, you know, those cases are exposed.

• 2:48:05Speaker 02

  But there is also an argument that museums serve the purpose of entertainment. You know, not all museums conduct research. Some are just, you know, to drive tourists, you know, to sell tickets. So therefore, they exhibit objects of interest, whether genuine or not. And for that matter, a good example is a crystal skull at the British Museum. You know, the crystal skull history. So that particular skull was shown to be, you know, a modern reproduction because traces of the diamond wheel were found on its surface when it was looked, examined through electron microscope. But they decided to keep, you know, the object in the exhibit and use it as an opportunity to educate the public about the forgery.

• 2:48:46Danny Jones?

  Sure. Sell tickets.

• 2:48:47Speaker 02

  Here is a very, you know, popular item. We didn't know how it was made, you know, until we looked at the electron microscope and we know the, you know, traces. So therefore, I don't think it's surprising and I think it's expected besides, you know, forgery for the sake of forgery, there is also forgery for the sake of imitation. For example, royal families in Europe, you know, they wanted to have in Egyptian antiquities. And they had, you know, their workshops make stuff for them that look Egyptian. You know, like Russian Tsar family had a Fabergé workshop that made niceties for the royal family. You know, whatever prince or princes wanted, you know, they made.

• 2:49:27Speaker 02

  So it's not, not a stretch that, you know, they made, you know, some artifacts that, you know, were imitating, you know, ancient Egyptian.

• 2:49:36Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 2:49:36Speaker 02

  Objects just for the sake of entertainment for the royalty and ability because the interest was there.

• 2:49:42Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:49:43Speaker 02

  So that's kind of my conclusion about the story of the vases. I do believe.

• 2:49:48Danny Jones?

  So you believe all of these super precise faces that were measured in CT scans and light scans that showed to be like, like within the deviation of one one thousandth of an inch or, or the deviation of like less than the width of a human hair. Those were created on modern CNC machines and they were not ancient.

• 2:50:08Speaker 02

  Not, not necessarily CNC, but on modern machine.

• 2:50:10Danny Jones?

  They weren't, those things aren't, aren't ancient.

• 2:50:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't believe that those things are.

• 2:50:14Danny Jones?

  Even though they're so thin, like they're so.

• 2:50:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, the interesting thing is when I was looking into the topic of manufacturing of this in granite vases. So I contacted, contacted Chinese manufacturers and they just drowned me with proposals on what they can make. And they've sent me so many videos that blew my mind, which reminded me a story when I think Steve Jobs wanted to make an iPhone, he went to American manufacturers and they said, well, let us think about it. And then he went to Chinese manufacturers and the next day they brought him samples. So it was a very similar, you know that story?

• 2:50:49Danny Jones?

  No.

• 2:50:50Speaker 02

  It was a sample of a screen. He wanted a sample of a screen and he couldn't get one from American manufacturers, but by Chinese brought him samples the next day.

• 2:50:58Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:50:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. So similar situation exists for the granite manufacturing. It's actually very developed because evidently there is demand for various granite vessels that are culturally specific, like rice pots and, uh, like pots for spices and whatnot. They sent me like a bunch of pictures of what they make currently, like for their customers. And they showed me videos of their various CNC implements or the machine in these vessels and vases.

• 2:51:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:29Speaker 02

  And I bought this one and this is a reject because it has chips and nicks in it. And it seems to be like more precise than, you know.

• 2:51:36Danny Jones?

  Than all of them.

• 2:51:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, basically, and it's run of the mill, you know, it's nothing special. It's basically a flower vase for symmetry.

• 2:51:45Danny Jones?

  That's a straight tube shot straight down.

• 2:51:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, they can make um inner cavities hollow to the spec. Because they use they use diamond saws for it. Yeah, yeah.

• 2:51:57Danny Jones?

  That's wild.

• 2:51:58Speaker 02

  So I'm even, you know, considering, you know, commissioning them in a replica of the Egyptian vase, you know, just.

• 2:52:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah, we should do that. We should get them to create a granite one.

• 2:52:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe. Maybe I should because they basically asked me to send them a drawing and then they all they already gave me a quote. I think they wanted like 500 bucks to make one.

• 2:52:15Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:52:16Speaker 02

  So maybe.

• 2:52:17Danny Jones?

  Well, we have all those scans, right? Even we had Carly and Adam Young in here a couple of weeks ago and they were showing me all those all those scanned measurements they have of those vases.

• 2:52:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, so so all we need to do is send them, you know, a CAD drawing and they'll they'll make a bunch.

• 2:52:30Danny Jones?

  Wow, that's fascinating, man.

• 2:52:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I was really blown. I didn't really expect how developed that industry is and and they sell these machines. So the particular outlet I was in touch, they mostly sell machines to other manufacturers. And a lot of those machines are capable of machining like multiple granite or stone objects at the same time. So they have like multiple heads. And multiple cutters and they all like go in unison to CNC in a route and they cut the shapes inside and outside. Credit, there are some limitations on, you know, what they can and cannot do in terms of size.

• 2:53:06Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:53:06Speaker 02

  Too small, you know, they don't have the tools, too large and they don't have the tools. But anything like I think between like two and 200 inches is covered and. Costs like next to nothing, so.

• 2:53:18Danny Jones?

  Wow, man.

• 2:53:19Speaker 02

  So maybe we ought to get one done.

• 2:53:21Danny Jones?

  That's wild, dude.

• 2:53:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that wasn't the conclusion I was looking for, but I kinda cannot hold it back. And I know I talked to Matt about it, you know, on and off, and he was floating the idea that, you know, he didn't know whether his objects were, some of his objects were genuine or not, but you know, now I can say that based on man analysis, I can vouch for what objects I think are genuine in his collection or in other collections and what, what objects I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that they're genuine, just because they, you know, to closely match in a modern production techniques and we don't see anything like that in the museums.

• 2:53:57Danny Jones?

  Wow, man. What about the Petri core? Like, it, it's, it's crazy to me that, you know, even though these things aren't super precise, uh, you know, from your, based on your study, that, you know, what they were doing wasn't super precise, but it, it does seem to me that like, they must have had something that we can't explain to like, create some of these cores and even like the stuff that Ben talks about, like with those giant rocks with the saw cuts in them that are like perfectly.

• 2:54:22Speaker 02

  I'm glad you asked, because, um, uh, look at this. The hole in here is super precise.

• 2:54:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:30Speaker 02

  It's like more precise than anything I've seen. Or look at this, this coal vessel, you know, the hole in this.

• 2:54:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:38Speaker 02

  Is super precise and, and do you think it's difficult to do? No, it's accomplished with a bow drill. And that's what happens when you have like abrasive. So the way you use a bow drill, basically have a bit.

• 2:54:52Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 2:54:52Speaker 02

  On a stick and you have a bow that.

• 2:54:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:54Speaker 02

  Rotates it.

• 2:54:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:56Speaker 02

  But the reason you get like a very precise cut is the abrasive. And this shouldn't be surprising because, you know, there are plenty of examples of it in nature. You walk on a beach that's covered in stone, not in, in sand, but in stone and all the stones around it.

• 2:55:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:55:12Speaker 02

  Pebbles, right?

• 2:55:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:55:13Speaker 02

  So why pebbles around it is because abrasive sand rounds everything and the more you grind, the rounder it becomes. And when you have a bow drill with an abrasive set to any type of stone, you get a perfectly insanely round hole that's same amount of roundness as you get, you know, when you put a modern, you know.

• 2:55:33Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:55:33Speaker 02

  Drill bit through a metal or anything for that matter.

• 2:55:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:55:37Speaker 02

  And I was blown away because, you know, I paid. Not very much for this. I'm like, damn, it's a bow drill.

• 2:55:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:55:44Speaker 02

  And damn, you know, it's precise. And then I measure this. And it's like the second most precise measurement I ever took. And this time it's embaselled. Like, fuck, I didn't expect, but that that's what you get. And the same, you know, with cores. And it's actually been proven by UPenn. Researchers at UPenn, they examined

• 2:56:08Speaker 02

  tubular drilling. So when you have a copper tube and and you set it, let's say on granite.

• 2:56:14Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:56:14Speaker 02

  And once again, the drilling action is accomplished not by copper. It's accomplished by the abrasive.

• 2:56:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:56:20Speaker 02

  And what copper does, it just drags the abrasive along.

• 2:56:23Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:56:23Speaker 02

  And for that matter, it was shown that you can even drill with wooden tubes. Because wood, you know, wedges this

• 2:56:30Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:56:31Speaker 02

  sand particles and that's what does the the cutting. And what you get, not you get only like a supremely round cut, you also get these striations that we observe in Petri core. And those striations have been studied in depths to where it was shown that, you know, the line that forms, if you trace it, it's not like a uniform line. It's a bunch of lines and it intersects and overlaps. It's entirely consistent with the abrasive action.

• 2:56:54Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:56:54Speaker 02

  So it's inconsistent, let's say with a diamond tooth

• 2:56:57Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:56:57Speaker 02

  or a cutter tooth going in a spiral. That's not what we see. Instead, we see a bunch of tracks that crisscross overlap.

• 2:57:04Danny Jones?

  Okay, I thought that he wrapped a string around it and found that it was...

• 2:57:07Speaker 02

  To some point. So I think it was a bit of a mystification. So depending on how carefully you do, but enough people looked at it and including, you know, shout out to Knights Carib. So he did a particularly good job into unrolling, you know, the Petri core and tracing the, you know, the grooves.

• 2:57:24Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:57:24Speaker 02

  So unfortunately, unfortunately, that's that's what you get, you know, when you use abrasive. And and for that matter, when I picked up objects of the Petri collection with with nicely done interior. Like this one, for example, I looked at and I see the number, I recognize it. When you look inside, it has a bunch of striations that look like, you know, lathe marks.

• 2:57:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:57:45Speaker 02

  But in fact, you know, those are the marks from the abrasive, you know, dragging against, you know, the side of the, of the vessel, because the interior, when you look at the skin, is not perfect. It's this way and that way, you know, it's nicely circular, but it's not concentric.

• 2:58:01Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:58:01Speaker 02

  And you don't get that on a lathe. And the grooves that are left are, you know, they're crisscrossed, overlap. They're just superficially, because they're so fine, you know, they're superficially look, there are lathe marks, but they're not.

• 2:58:13Danny Jones?

  Wow. You debunked, you debunked the Egyptian basis. I can't believe it.

• 2:58:17Speaker 02

  Pretty much did. And my conclusion is, uh, this, this is an amazing stone working technique. So what we underappreciate it is how effective it is. And I also believe, and I speculate here, I think they use some level of automation to do it. I don't think, you know, I don't, once again, I've mentioned it many times. I don't think people were stupid. So I don't think anybody, you know, was turning the wheel. So maybe it was the action of water or, you know, donkey working in a circle. But I think it was automated enough to where, you know, this grinder bit, you know, was just turning, turning and turning. And by the way, I have a slide there with the bits. Let's show it, Steve. I think it's the, maybe the last slide.

• 2:59:00Speaker 02

  The last one, the very last. Yeah. So those are, you know, objects from the Petri Museum that I, I believe were the, you know, grinding bits. They look exactly like, you know, you would expect, you know, from a modern tool shop. And the thing is, there are like a bunch of them. And what's the first thing you notice when you walk to a machine shop? You, you notice an endless variety of cutters and bits. Like every machine is, has a zillion cutters and zillion bits. And you go to a museum and you see, you know, these cutters and bits, except they're classified as mace heads.

• 2:59:31Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:59:32Speaker 02

  And, uh, you know, Matt Bell was quick to point out that the mace head at the bottom looks like a cut out piece of a vase, but I think at the end of the day, it was used for grinding because it has this in the exact shape. That you need to grind, you know, each of these pieces are like perfect examples of what you would use for grinding, especially the elongated one, because the elongated one you would use for hollowing out the inside.

• 2:59:54Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:59:55Speaker 02

  And there are a bunch of them, different sizes, different shapes, it's just countless and countless. And the piece to the right, I think that's the rubbing block for the outer surface.

• 3:00:03Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 3:00:04Speaker 02

  And I think that's, you know, they classify them as a fragment of the vessel, because that's what it looks like.

• 3:00:09Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 3:00:10Speaker 02

  But to me, it looks more like, you know, a grinding block, something you set next to the vase, you know, when it turns, and you grind and shave, you shave off layers and layers until it becomes round enough. But, you know, there are hundreds, you know, thousands of this, and it matches exactly kind of the tool set you need. And if we go to one slide up, Steve, yeah, that's a reconstruction from a known stone mill in Her- Heroc- Heroc- Man, where is my tone when I need it? Herocallis, Herocopolis. Say it.

• 3:00:45Danny Jones?

  So it uses a water hydraulic action to...

• 3:00:49Speaker 02

  Herocopolis, yeah. If you go up one slide, there is a depiction of it on the, so it was found on sarcophagus in Turkey.

• 3:00:56Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 3:00:57Speaker 02

  And then they did a reconstruction. So it's a known, but it's in Hellenistic time, right?

• 3:01:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:04Speaker 02

  So it's not like a predynastic Egyptian, but it's not a stretch, you know, to extrapolate from this to turning, you know, grinding blocks on these vases, you know, maybe a thousand years before that, because it just makes sense. But maybe it wasn't water, maybe it was, you know, a dunk or something like that, but it's grinding.

• 3:01:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:26Speaker 02

  And...

• 3:01:27Danny Jones?

  Wow. Well, that's awesome, man. I mean, it takes good, takes scientific people like you to pressure test some of these theories, and I'm glad you're doing it. It's a fascinating, fascinating work you're doing.

• 3:01:37Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 3:01:38Danny Jones?

  Tell people where they can find you, learn more about your work and all that stuff.

• 3:01:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course. I have a website called maximus.energy, and that's, you know, where my devices that I make for nuclear science, and that's where my fusion research is, and this is why my Egyptology blog. I also have a YouTube channel, and it's also, I think, Maximus Energy. And I'm not a YouTuber, so I don't, you know, produce videos for a living. So occasionally, I would put a video there to, if you're curious to know, you know, what music I used to make in my past life. You can find me on Spotify or, you know, iTunes on the Ultra Max. And you'll, oh, and I have a gift for you.

• 3:02:20Danny Jones?

  A gift?

• 3:02:21Speaker 02

  From my past life.

• 3:02:22Danny Jones?

  A CD? Oh, wow.

• 3:02:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know it's more like a token souvenir, but you know, heck, I have something tangible.

• 3:02:29Danny Jones?

  That's amazing. Is that you?

• 3:02:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's me, younger and more handsome.

• 3:02:35Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 3:02:36Speaker 02

  And I'm also would like to say that I'm, I wrote a book, like a fiction, you know, my my kind of take, artistic take on, on how, you know, this past civilization, you know, could have lived or evolved. And of course it involves extraterrestrial beings. And of course it has to be a trilogy. So I finished, nearly finished first book. It's called Order and Chaos. I have a website, Order and Chaos Book dot com. Uh, but I have not quite finished it. Maybe it will be finished in a, in a couple of months, some, maybe sometimes next year. But, uh, you know, that, that's how I express, you know, my wild artistic ideas about, you

• 3:03:22Speaker 02

  know, what might have happened in the past and, you know, what these beings were and, why they came, you know, to this planet and whatnot.

• 3:03:31Danny Jones?

  Fascinating stuff, man. Well, we'll link it all below for people to check it out. And dude, thanks again for doing this, man. This has been, uh.

• 3:03:39Speaker 02

  Well, thank you for having me.

• 3:03:40Danny Jones?

  Yeah, my pleasure.

• 3:03:41Speaker 02

  The opportunity to share some of the crazy ideas.

• 3:03:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah, man, yeah, we'll have to do it again once you are able to implement some of these experiments and find out more stuff.

• 3:03:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, that would be fun.

• 3:03:49Danny Jones?

  Cool. All right. Thanks again. Good night, everybody.