The Dirty Truth About Passion w/ Mike Rowe

Should you chase your PASSION or should you SOLVE a PROBLEM? Fill a NEED? Are you ready for the REAL DIRT with one of the SMARTEST and MOST PRACTICAL thinkers today about work in America? MIKE ROWE has been slogging it out in trenches, coal mines, sewers, and garbage dumps for a long time now as the host of DIRTY JOBS. There’s a RUGGED, DOWN-TO-EARTH and TRUSTWORTHY quality about Mike. Coupled with the fact he can take any dirty job, tell a great story, add some humor, and hook you from the start, makes him one of the more unusual and compelling people in television for the past several years. A self-described chronic freelancer, Mike has worked in more than 350 JOBS on his hit show. But he’s also an in-demand Fortune 500 speaker, podcaster, executive producer, and author as well as a vocal advocate and CEO of the mikeroweWORKS Foundation that debunks myths and promotes the value of skilled trades in the workforce. Mike’s got some CAPTIVATING STORIES and SAGE ADVICE about THE NATURE OF WORK you’re going to want to hear. Mike redefines why and how PASSION should be a part of what you do but probably not in a way you’ve thought of before. He has a great take on the value of HARD WORK and MASTERING SKILLS that leads you to a path to success, whether you work with your HANDS, your HEAD, or some combination of both. There’s also a big disconnect going on right now about the nature of EDUCATION and matching it up with meaningful work. Mike talks a lot about changing how we should REFRAME our thinking about both areas, and why we should always approach our work with a sense of HUMILITY AND CURIOSITY. You, your children, and pretty much everyone you know are going to spend the better part of your lives working. Doesn’t it make sense that you should give a lot of THOUGHT about what it’s going to take to be HAPPY and SUCCESSFUL in whatever you choose to do? This week’s show with Mike Rowe will start that important conversation you need to have with yourself. This one is really gonna get you thinking! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ed Mylett?

  I hear so many small business owners say the exact same thing. They just never have enough time in the day. Well, I measure time differently. I've compressed, condensed, heck, I've bent time. My first day is 6:00 a.m. to noon. My second day starts at noon and goes till 6:00 p.m. And my third day, 6:00 p.m. to midnight. I now get 21 days a week. Stack that up over a month, over a year, over five years, and my life's completely different than it would have been otherwise. And if you want to win as an entrepreneur, you have to compress your time, too. And you definitely can't afford to waste it. Waiting weeks on a big bank for capital? Your best bet's to work with my friends at Cardiff. They know how to compress time for entrepreneurs. They get your business approved in minutes and funded the very same day. They're America's favorite small business lender, and for good reason.

• 0:45Ed Mylett?

  Over 20 years in business, over $12 billion deployed to small business across America. Stop letting bank delays slow down your momentum. Head to cardiff.co/ed. That's cardiff.co/ed. Cardiff.co. Real growth, fast funding. Cardiff. Borrow better.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  Mr. President, my company, for me, of the explosion on our rig.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  On October 2nd.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 1:11Speaker 02

  Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess. And Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You stop, you freeze to death, that's what.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:25Speaker 01

  I'm not the first nanny.

• 1:27Speaker 02

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.

• 1:36Speaker 02

  This is the Ed Mylett Show.

• 1:40Ed Mylett?

  All right, everybody. Welcome back. My guest doesn't need any introduction. First guy ever on the show with a deeper voice than me. Rather intimidating. But I've wanted to talk with him for a long time because I've been a fan of Dirty Jobs. And then, as I started to prep for the interview, I'm a fan of the way he thinks. And his approach to life and business is something that I align with, but also I want to hear more about today. The reason he's on is Dirty Jobs is coming back, which I know a lot of you are excited about. 8:00 PM on Discovery Channel, starting in the beginning of the year. And I know you're all going to be tuning in. I've watched, I don't know, a ton. I haven't seen every show, but I've watched a lot of them. They're compelling, as is the host. So Mike Rowe, thank you for being here, brother.

• 2:20Speaker 03

  Hey, man. I'd be lying to you if I said it was difficult. What I did was I filled up my, my brand new Ember coffee mug and I walked down the stairs and I clicked on a link and boom, brave new world. Here we are.

• 2:32Ed Mylett?

  Isn't that crazy?

• 2:33Speaker 03

  It is unbelievable.

• 2:34Ed Mylett?

  Guys our age that can connect like this and the way people consume, we're talking about, you know, the audience size, still blows my mind, the amount of people that consume content, you know, in different ways now.

• 2:45Speaker 03

  And, and, and how fast it happened, right? You know, this is in so many ways, this is just another example of people playing the cards they get, you know, a year and a half ago, I was up to my neck in production and all of a sudden we're shut down. And then I'm on the phone with the president of a couple of networks, talking about something called Zoom TV. I never heard of it. Zoom. I thought, I thought it was just like a verb or something.

• 3:09Ed Mylett?

  Me too.

• 3:10Speaker 03

  And then here we are, you know, it's just, uh, you know, pivot or perish, basically.

• 3:16Ed Mylett?

  Isn't that true? And you talk a lot about that in your work and it's interesting to me because I feel like the pandemic to some extent, there's been all these negative things, but it really does like accelerated society by like 10 years. This was all inevitable anyway. We just hurried up and got here. And, but I was thinking about business. I want to, because obviously we're talking about hard work today and the jobs and your experience doing that and our culture. But I was reading, I'm like, everyone always says chase your passion. In fact, I've probably said that out loud before and you're like, yeah, I don't know. You know, there's something other than chasing your passion, you probably ought to be focused on if you're going to have some level of success. So I'll let you answer it your way. But what should we be chasing in your opinion?

• 3:55Speaker 03

  Well, look, that, that turn of phrase, you know, somewhere, in fact, it's on that poster right behind me. You can't read it, but it says,

• 4:03Ed Mylett?

  Never follow your passion, but always bring it with you.

• 4:07Speaker 03

  And I'm artificially inseminating a turkey, uh, right there, which is a whole nother story.

• 4:14Speaker 03

  But part of what happened to me when when Dirty Jobs got into its fifth or sixth year and became really a dominant show on on cable, something began to emerge from the totality of of the segments, right? People were always asking, what does this group of people know that the rest of us have either forgotten or just don't know? And so I started working on sort of a collection of alternative successories, right? Like, the whole notion of conventional wisdom is so often rooted in cookie cutter advice and bromides and

• 4:56Speaker 03

  tropes and platitudes. And it's only a matter of time until you see some photo of some guy in a kayak in a boardroom paddling through a glacier with some definition of persistence under it and all that. No, it's just like, okay, all right. So, so, so what's the Dirty Jobs take on innovation, or teamwork, or persistence, or passion? And so you're asking me about, in 2008, I did a special called The Dirty Truth, where we, we took a different look at some of these bromides. And somewhere near the top of the list was follow your passion. Most everybody I know who's had any kind of success is always eager to tell

• 5:40Speaker 03

  me about how they, they identified that which they were most passionate about, and then executed this, this carefully concocted plan and put the ball through the hoop and boom, now they're passionate and happy and successful. And I just didn't see much of that on Dirty Jobs. I saw a lot of happy, successful, passionate people. Yep. But I never met anybody who had taken the conventional road. The people I met who were most passionate about what they did were people who started their journey not by trying to identify their passion, but by simply identifying the opportunity that was in front of them. Yeah.

• 6:20Speaker 03

  Oftentimes, this involved a reverse commute, you know? I'm thinking of the septic tank worker I met years ago, a guy named Les Swanson up there in Wisconsin. He has shrink? Yeah, he was a psychologist and he was a guidance counselor.

• 6:36Ed Mylett?

  Crazy.

• 6:37Speaker 03

  Right. And then he walked away from all of it to clean people's septic tanks. And he was very passionate about his work. He loved what he did. But I just remember the day I spent with him, standing up to my nipples in excrement and sweat and I'm just less. You know, what are you, what are you doing here? You know, how did this happen? He said, Mike, I used to be a guidance counselor. I used to be a shrink and I got tired of dealing with other people's crap.

• 7:05Ed Mylett?

  That's crazy. So now he literally deals with their crap.

• 7:08Speaker 03

  Correct. So this idea that job satisfaction results from following your passion was something that I thought it would be fun to, if not debunk, at least challenge. And so we did, you know, I use Dirty Jobs to do it. I use my foundation to do it, but I'm always looking for people, passionate people who love what they do, not because of what they do, but because of who they are. And because they simply chose to be passionate about the thing that makes them money.

• 7:42Ed Mylett?

  I would like 1,000% rubber stamped on. And when I first heard you say it, I'm like, I don't know. I mean, you gotta find something you're passionate about. Then I started to think of even where I am right now, I'm a pretty affluent neighborhood and I'm thinking of the different people here. Most of them were not passionate initially about the industry they got into. I got into the financial industry. I wanted nothing to do with it. There's nothing about it that I thought, but I found elements of what I did daily I was passionate about. But it wasn't like I chased opportunity, exactly what you just described. I think even if we stop recording now, for a lot of people, they're like, I gotta change my life. I'm passionate about cookies, so I've got to find something to do with cookies. Like, hey, man, that's a limited scope

• 8:22Ed Mylett?

  to go build your life around, right? Or, you know, maybe you'll find, maybe, and by the way, maybe your passion doesn't even have to be your vocation. Maybe you'll fund your passion with your vocation, with the money you make in your vocation. True?

• 8:34Speaker 03

  Look, there is a, I mean, there's so many bromides around the notion of, you know, find something you love, you'll never work another day in your life and so forth. I don't think, I think the real enemy here is cookie cutter advice. I think that different people need to hear different things at different times in their life. College and going to college, for instance, might be exactly the right thing to do for a certain person, but if you're gonna go out there and speak to the masses, well, you can't very well, in good conscience anyway, tell the whole country that the best path for the most people is the most expensive path. And yet, of course, that's what, that's

• 9:17Speaker 03

  what we do, right? We always trade, it seems, in these, in these sweeping bromides. But you're talking about work and hobbies, basically in the same breath. And that is a fascinating topic, you know, it's vocation and avocation. There's a great poem by Robert Frost, which for me is the greatest American poet of all time. And he, he wrote a poem called Two Tramps in Mud Time. Most people haven't heard of it, but it's, it's, I bet your listeners would, would love it because it tells the story. Frost is cutting wood in his backyard,

• 9:57Speaker 03

  and he loves to chop wood. He does it for fun. And his passion for it is a big chunk of the poem. But out of the woods, two tramps emerge while he's cutting wood. And these tramps, they've been sleeping in the woods. They came down from the lumber camps. And these men get paid to chop wood. It's their, it's their vocation. Vocation. And so the poem becomes this rumination between the narrator and these two men who are hungry. And they, they want, they want to be paid.

• 10:36Speaker 03

  To do what they're great at. But here's our narrator doing the thing that they're great at because he loves to do it. And so the whole thing leads up to this climax where, where Frost says something like, uh, my right was love, but theirs was need. And where the two exist in twain, theirs was the greater right agreed, but yield who will to their separation. And here's the good part. My goal in living is to unite my vocation with my avocation. So my two eyes make one in sight for only where, only where love and need are one and

• 11:20Speaker 03

  work is play for mortal stakes can the deed be done for heaven and for future sakes. So that's a, you know, a long and clever way of saying there, there are days where you better look at your work like play. And there are days where you better look at your play like work.

• 11:40Ed Mylett?

  So good.

• 11:41Speaker 03

  Every successful person I've ever met, whether they know it or not, has, has figured that out.

• 11:48Ed Mylett?

  That is so good. I know you're gonna get that quick. I also think that some of these platitudes lead you to believe that you have to be motivated or passionate every day. Whereas for me, oftentimes the separator is what do you do on the days you're not feeling it? You know, the guys that you're interacting with, they get up on do it on the days they're not feeling it. It's your habits, rituals and disciplines. When you're not on top of the world or passionate or motivated, I got to assume that's even true for you too. There had to be days you didn't want to go shoot or didn't want to do the voiceover or whatever it might be. But it's, it's what you do on the days where you're not feeling it that separates you from the people who only perform on days they're motivated.

• 12:25Speaker 03

  Maybe the biggest lesson I learned, I learned in the, in the Boy Scouts years ago. Uh, we had a scout master who was actually a retired, uh, drill sergeant and he, he ran that troop like a paramilitary organization. And, uh, up until that point, the big character lessons that my dad and my granddad tried to instill. In me had to do with the importance of being willing and able to do a thing when you didn't feel like doing it. It was that basic, right? Embrace the suck essentially, right? Well, this guy, Mr. Huntington, he, he took it a step further and his basic thing was, look,

• 13:09Speaker 03

  most anybody of character will figure out how to do something in spite of the discomfort that accompanies it. Right? But the ones who knock it out of the park, those sick bastards, those are the ones who realize how to love it. They're the masochists. They're the ones who go, you know what? Like I, I lost thirty five pounds last year because it was just time. It was time to do that. I was just on the wrong side of where I wanted to be. And, um, and I remembered my old scout master giving me these, uh, these lectures and I thought,

• 13:48Speaker 03

  you know what? It applies to hunger. When I feel hungry, I'm not really hungry. I'm not gonna die. I'm, I'm nowhere near starving, but when I feel like I want to eat, that's the thing that used to scare me. That's the thing that used to make me want to reach for the cookies, reach for anything. But you have to train yourself to want that feeling of hunger. Because when you have it, that's when you know, like in my case, I'm, I'm getting into some level of ketosis and that's what I wanted to do. Right? And so you look for the pain, you look for the adversity, you look for the hunger. And when you find it, you give yourself a high five because now you're getting somewhere.

• 14:32Ed Mylett?

  But my, my foot is, uh, a little bit bad part of not doing this live is you can't see my foot going a thousand miles an hour up and down like some puppy dog loving what you're saying because I, because I do think that there's this problem, even my entrepreneurial journey in my life. Like I caught that masochist is a really descriptive word. It's like almost getting off on doing things you know no one else is willing to do right now. And, uh, I completely acknowledge that you're right about that. What about culture wise? You know, hard work, which is really what your show shows, other than your show.

• 15:07Ed Mylett?

  Really isn't glorified anymore. Meaning, I mean, real work. I'm talking working with your hands. Like, I was watching an interview you did. I was prepping for this. And like, the depth of things that you describe, you're talking about how, you know, that vocational technology used to be called vocational arts. And it used to be really respected. And then it just kind of faded away altogether in the educational system. Now, everyone goes away to college to like, learn and think and somehow are going to be an executive thinker somewhere.

• 15:36Speaker 03

  Right.

• 15:37Ed Mylett?

  But this notion of work every single day, working with one's hands, has sort of become almost disrespected in our culture. Yet, a lot of these guys, a lot of these women, do very well financially, a whole lot better than these thinkers that have three initials next to their name.

• 15:53Speaker 03

  My entire foundation is based on the premise that we need to confront the myths and misperceptions and stigmas and stereotypes that keep millions of people from exploring legit careers that require the mastery of a skill. We get people the skills they need, and then we tell their stories, because the path to a prosperous life that begins with the mastery of a skill, is absolutely a critical narrative that we have forgotten about. Our path to success, more often than not, when you read stories about successful people today, it goes back to what we were just saying about passion. We look for people who are afflicted with this great passion, and then we try and unpack the mystery of

• 16:37Speaker 03

  how they were able to broker this great passion into something that looks like success. This is the same thing you're talking about, because if you, if you, if you're going to have a good way to do a thing, well, that by definition means that the other ways are bad ways, or less good. And working with your hands used to be an integral part of the success story. But then it wasn't. And then, we weren't content to merely arbitrage it out of the successful formula. We had to make it the enemy.

• 17:17Speaker 03

  We had to do something to actually affirmatively disparage the path that we're not on. Because we're so concerned that we might have taken the wrong path that we have to make sure that that doesn't happen. So that's, that's where you get expressions like higher education. Now, I'm a big fan of education, but since when did we call, why is one path higher? Does that mean the other paths are lower? Well, we don't really call it lower education. So we call it alternative education. We take community colleges, which saved my bacon, by the way.

• 17:57Speaker 03

  We take trade schools, we take apprenticeship programs, and we put them all in this big squishy bundle of crap and say, this is what you do if you're not cut out for the higher road. Welcome to the lower road. And that's, it's part of the reason why I often get sucked into the politics of our times. Because I'm not a political animal, but work has become politicized and education has become politicized. And woe unto thee who tries to disentangle the two. Now, when those two things get, get married up like that, to your point, the war on work

• 18:38Speaker 03

  that we see begins with a war on language. And so Very good. If, if, if you, if you look at some of the rhetorical pretzels that some of the biggest companies in our country today have twisted themselves into, it'll take your breath away. Corn Ferry, the big recruiting firm, has a giant list of terms that are no longer deemed acceptable internally. Words like ambition and drive have become problematic. Lockheed Martin, of all places, has identified work ethic itself as problematic because for the same reasons that personal responsibility, you know, the, the, these words have become

• 19:23Speaker 03

  like dog whistles, right?

• 19:26Speaker 03

  Why? Well, look, the honest answer to that's a 300-page book I can't get around to finishing, but it has something to do with the fact that we are, we are trying to reimagine the path to prosperity, and we're trying to do it without some of the most basic notions upon which our country was built. Delayed gratification, a positive attitude, a decent work ethic, I keep and helping, of personal responsibility, and the unapologetic willingness to get up early, stay late, and take a bite of the sandwich when it comes around to you, and figure out

• 20:07Speaker 03

  a way to like it. All of that stuff is a really, really hard sell. And that's why my scholarship program rewards work ethic. We award work ethic scholarships, a million bucks a year, to kids who can demonstrate some measure of these qualities that we're trying to elevate. I've seen scholarship programs for talent, for athletic ability, and obviously for scholastic achievement. Great. But to affirmatively try and reward work ethic is, is, is my attempt to push back against the very thing

• 20:47Ed Mylett?

  I love it.

• 20:48Speaker 03

  you're talking about.

• 20:50Ed Mylett?

  The war on work. I freaking love it. I'm so fired up right now because it's one of my favorite conversations I've had because I really feel like there's a little bit of a war on work. And even this week, there's a, you know, one of the two parties trying to pass a four-day work week all of a sudden. And, and as if, and this is the big thing, as if work can't be enjoyable, as if, you know, as if creating something, I love this notion, not notion, but fact that you brought to my attention, that it was vocational arts, that I said a guy fixed my car, which I'm incapable of doing, and I'm watching the brilliance of this man's mind compared to mine and his mechanical way of thinking. And it was an art, yet you would never describe it that way in our

• 21:35Ed Mylett?

  Culture right now because he's got grease on his hands and he didn't shave this morning. Right. And so his name's on his shirt. So he's not an artist. But if he was somewhere in a studio in New York with a canvas, he's an artist. And by the way, I respect and appreciate both artists. But this notion that this thing you've said about higher education is so profound and so true. And if you have children, you're listening to this. Or you know, this, there's these two paths. I want you to talk about this for a minute. There's this path, let me just be candid, where someone leaves, they got a skill or a proclivity, they could be great in a career. And maybe they work for someone for five or 10 years. Then they open up their own auto dealership, their own mechanic shop, their own transmission shop.

• 22:18Ed Mylett?

  Become an entrepreneur. That's one path in life that ought to be really considered by more people. And then there's the other one, which is the one that's really pushed down our throats. Both my kids are doing it. Go to college. They're not going to get debt because their dad's rich, but most people leave with a bunch of debt. They're 25, 26, 27 years old with their degree. And they're a barista at Starbucks and they're living at their mom and dad's house with debt and they're lost and they were made this huge promise of what their life would be if they would just become educated. And none of it panned out because you don't get ahead with that. You get ahead with hard work and innovation and creativity. And almost like we're lying to these kids. On top of that, I never say this on my show ever. But there's sort of this indoctrination in a particular ideology.

• 23:03Ed Mylett?

  That is widespread across these campuses that doesn't value the things that you've described. You speak about it better than I do, but share my, share your thoughts about that with the audience.

• 23:13Speaker 03

  Well, my thoughts sound like they are your thoughts, you know, a lot of parents today are deeply concerned about what's going on in schools. And again, I, I try and stay in my lane. I don't need any fights that I'm

• 23:26Speaker 03

  that I'm not currently in. But look. I don't know if this winds up in video or not, but if Oh, yeah. So for the people who are just listening to this, I'm holding in my hand the MicroWorks Work Ethic Curriculum. It is about two inches thick. And inside of this, we're in 30 schools right now, Ed. Technical colleges, for the most part. And this is basically an attempt to inculcate the tenants of my sweat pledge, which everybody has to sign who applies for a work ethic scholarship. We're just trying to bring that to life and form a study guide so we can at least set the table with some of these basic tools and give people the chance to incorporate

• 24:10Speaker 03

  them into the conversation. Because to your point, these things have not just been neglected, they have been identified as the proximate cause of our unhappiness. Work has become the enemy because it's so simple for people to say, look, if you're unhappy, it's not because of anything you've done or not done, it's your damn boss who's the problem. It's the work that's the problem. It's the grind that's the problem. You want to see the war on work? Well, look at Madison Avenue. How many commercials that air right now basically reinforce the idea that you'd be happier if you were on vacation? You'd be happier if you were working less.

• 24:53Speaker 03

  You'd be happier if your boss weren't such a douche, right? There, we do it in a thousand different ways. If you close your eyes right now and I say plumber, the first image to come to mind is a dude that could probably lose 100 pounds, that's got the giant crack, right? He's the plumber. That's what we've been taught to think of. You know, you just described the artist down at the auto shop as a grease monkey because that's what we see. We see the unshaven face, we see the dirty fingernails, and we don't associate art with any of these things. Look, I'll riff on that too for a second because it is important. When we took shop class out of high school, we removed

• 25:38Speaker 03

  From sight, entire vocations.

• 25:42Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 25:43Speaker 03

  We, we, we basically said to kids, can you imagine sending a more clear message to a kid regarding the aspirational components or elements of a job than by removing it from sight? Now, we didn't just take shop class out of high school. To your point, the first thing we did was we dealt with the language. The industrial arts just became vo tech. Vo tech just became tech. Tech became shop. And once it became shop, well, then you just walk it around back of the barn and shoot it in the head. And that's what we did.

• 26:26Speaker 03

  That's how we got shop class out of high school and we did that 45, 50 years ago. And started pushing everybody into this other path. So that's where we are today. We're, we're wildly disconnected from a long list of critical jobs. I don't have to tell you this, you know, there are 11 million open positions right now as you and I are talking. 11 million. Now, the vast majority do not require a four-year degree. And yet, we're still telling kids they're screwed without their paper. We're still lending money we don't have to kids who are never going to be able to pay it back. To train them for jobs that don't even exist anymore. Hence the aforementioned barista living in mom's basement.

• 27:10Speaker 03

  Wonderfully educated, but woefully untrained for a long list of jobs that actually exist.

• 27:17Ed Mylett?

  Right, that there's a demand for. And, and by the way, everyone, everyone knows me very well on the show. Like, I'm all for prayer, meditation, quiet time, relaxation. I'm also all for work. And I think the extremes in our culture are, are what are so polarizing. Work is now sort of under attack. It really is. And the things like, you know, taking it slower and doing those other things is elevated. I'm a guy who works like crazy, so there's a necessity to rest. There's a necessity to prayer and meditation so that I'm recharged so that I can work. So it's not one without the other. And I don't know for you, but when you've interacted with, you've done, how many shows you've done? Do you know how many you've done for Dirty Jobs?

• 28:00Speaker 03

  Uh, three hundred and fifty jobs, uh, to probably two hundred shows.

• 28:06Ed Mylett?

  That's incredible. And you, is there something you thought, even you, about these folks, right? Working people, we'll just call them working people, which I don't know how in the world that's not the most admirable thing you could say about somebody. But is there something you believed that you, now that you've done that many, you no longer believe, like you just had an epiphany, like, wow, I just had this wrong?

• 28:32Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, the Greeks call it a peripetia, right? The moment in the narrative when the protagonist realizes everything he thought he knew about something was wrong, right? Like, like when Oedipus, you know, the king of Thebes, uh, realizes he loves having sex with older women, that's called an anagnorisis, that's a discovery, and that drives the plot forward. And so he marries this older woman, Jocasta, and they have a lovely life. And then later, you know, he has a peripetia, another form of anagnorisis, where he realizes this older woman, he's married and had kids with, is, is actually his mother. Now, when you realize

• 29:15Speaker 03

  the love of your life is your mom, it changes the direction of the story. And so, yeah, I've had

• 29:25Ed Mylett?

  You're so good.

• 29:27Speaker 03

  I've had many, uh, peripeties in my life, where I realized, man, I, everything I thought I knew about a thing happened to be wrong. And a, and a lot of what I talk about when people pay me to impersonate a speaker or, you know, address groups, I, I talk very personally about the things, not, not just the things I was wrong about, the things I was damn sure I was right about, and then realized how, how, just how wrong I could be. And Dirty Jobs is filled with those lessons. And to answer your question, the big one, and this was so obvious, you know, Dirty Jobs, a personal show, is a tribute to my pop, you

• 30:09Speaker 03

  know, a guy with a seventh grade education who could build a house without a blueprint, right? It was a tribute to that guy, it was a tribute to skilled labor. It was not a tribute, or at least not a deliberate one, to entrepreneurship, which is fascinating, because

• 30:27Speaker 03

  I'd say of the 300 people we featured on the show, 50 of them are multimillionaires. There you go. Now, you'd never know it because the people I feature on my show are covered with mud or grime or slime or crap or something worse. They don't look prosperous, but they are because they are the exact people you described before. People who began their journey chasing opportunity, not passion. People who then figured out a way to get really good at the opportunity they caught, then figured out how to love the thing passionately that they got good at, right? Those people, they don't just sit on their hands and keep making little

• 31:12Speaker 03

  rocks out of big rocks. They hire other people. They learn other skills. That welding certificate turns into a plumbing certification, which turns into a heating and air conditioning certification, which turns into an electrical contractor. And next thing you know, you've got four vans and 20 employees. Those people are all over dirty jobs. And when I realized that my own show was not really just a tribute to hardworking men and women who do the kinds of jobs that make civilized life possible for the rest of us, it was in equal parts a tribute to entrepreneurs who took the reverse commute, who figured out a way to solve a

• 31:57Speaker 03

  problem that they didn't even know existed. And so the show is not a polemic, but it is a much broader rumination on the nature of work than I originally thought it was. And it's part of the reason I brought it back 10 years later after going out of production. I stopped filming the show in 2012, but the show never went off the air, ever. And after these lockdowns with essential work in the headlines, so many people reached out to say, Mike, you had the granddaddy of essential working shows. Why don't you go back out into the world and show us what work looks like today? And I said, okay.

• 32:42Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, it's funny. It's amazing that we're now told what work is essential and what isn't. That's a whole other conversation, but I got, I'm curious that I, is there one that you just couldn't do? Was there, was there the one you was like, this one I'm not doing? There's just no freaking way. Or was there the hardest one?

• 33:02Speaker 03

  Look, I mean, yeah, we can talk a lot about that, but it'll, it'll have a lot more meaning, I think, if, if, if the listener understands the real parapetia that I went through before Dirty Jobs. You know, I, I impersonated a host in this crazy business for nearly 20 years. I had hundreds of jobs. I worked for every major network. I narrated hundreds of documentaries and I had it figured out. Like my business model was based on touching everything like it was very hot. You know, I took three or four months off a year. I took my retirement early in small installments

• 33:46Speaker 03

  and just went to work when it suited me. Dirty Jobs was really the beginning of my education. When I was 42 years old, I, my mother called me, to be honest, I was working at CBS and I was sitting in my cubicle. I was hosting the show called Evening Magazine and she said, you know, Mike, your, your grandfather just turned 90. He's not going to be alive forever. Wouldn't it be great if before he died, he could turn on the TV and see you doing something that looked like work?

• 34:19Speaker 03

  Brutal, right? So, so what happens to me is very simple. I go into the sewers of San Francisco the next day with a cameraman to host Evening Magazine from a place that my pop might recognize as work. The sewer does not let me do this. The rats interrupt me, the roaches cover me, giant condoms floating down a river of crap cling to my rubber boots.

• 34:48Speaker 03

  It's ridiculous. What I wind up doing, instead of hosting the show, is working with the sewer inspector. I spend an hour knocking rotten bricks out of the infrastructure and replacing them. And my cameraman fills it all, films it all. That that scene ultimately led to Dirty Jobs, but what it really led to, to answer your question, was a completely new identity for me. Remember, the Aristotelian definition of a tragedy is that moment in the narrative when the protagonist realizes that everything he thought he knew was wrong, and he comes face to face with the true nature of his own identity. I had been a host all my life, up until that point.

• 35:33Speaker 03

  Everything I did in TV, I did as a host, which meant I was good at creating the illusion of knowledge and competence in short bursts.

• 35:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:44Speaker 03

  That was my job, you know, to be a facile prevaricator. In that moment, in the sewer, working with the sewer inspector, I became an apprentice. And all of the factual information about the sewer that I would have loved to have shared with the viewer in my in my hosty way, came out in the course of a conversation with this regular dude who loved his job, was passionate about his work, and who took an hour out of his day to show me how it worked. In that moment, I stopped becoming a host and vowed for the rest of my career to be a guest, a cipher, an avatar.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:29Speaker 03

  And that was the peripetia that changed my life. That's why we're having our conversation right now, because at 42 years of age, I realized that everything I thought about my own career was wrong. And so Dirty Jobs became a way for me to go to school in front of a few million people every week and to learn from people who are doing jobs that most people didn't even know existed, in towns most people couldn't find on a map. And so, you know, sharing that education, sharing my education with the Discovery audience,

• 37:11Speaker 03

  led to a level of success I had never imagined, and then ultimately opened the door for a cause I had forgotten I cared about. And that's what MicroWorks became. That's why I've got to work at the curriculum in schools today. That's why Dirty Jobs is back on the air. And that's why, you know, ultimately, it's very, very difficult to, for me to talk about any of these things without circling back to a measure of abject humility, which was conspicuously lacking in most of my career.

• 37:45Ed Mylett?

  Was there a risk for you then, Mike? Like you have this pretty good career doing what you were doing? Or if this didn't work out, could you've just gone back to what you were always doing? Or were you taking a leap if this failed? You know, you might be forty-four years old with a pretty big failure on your resume and you've lost this momentum you had in your other career?

• 38:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, I had to quit. I had to quit a steady gig at CBS. I had to quit a show called Worst Case Scenario, which, you know, was on TBS and doing okay. Yeah, I, I had to abandon not just my, my existing career, but my existing model. Remember, I was, I was in love with the romantic version of myself. When I was forty-two, I'm a freelancer. I got a pretty good toolbox, right? I can get hired by virtually anyone. I just wasn't looking for, for jobs that I cared about. I was just looking to stay busy.

• 38:43Speaker 03

  I squirreled my money away. I took my retirement and early installments and I felt, I felt like I, like I had it down, you know? But, but I didn't because, well, maybe I did, but then I got a little older and then my pop got old and then my mom called me. And then like, people called me on all my bull crap. Like I had a pretty good model and it served me pretty well for a big chunk of my life. But then my life changed, you know? And, and this is the thing, I think it's so easy for people to forget. We're not in a snapshot. We're in a movie. Everything is always changing, including us.

• 39:27Speaker 03

  Right? We're always a little older. We're always getting more experience. And if we fall too deeply in love with our routines and, and, and our vision of ourself, then we risk, I think, maybe missing opportunities that, that come along. So this whole notion of me, you know, becoming a guest instead of a host, that, that wouldn't have happened on paper and it wouldn't have happened in most other environments. I had to be in the sewers, Ed.

• 40:01Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 40:01Speaker 03

  I was baptized in a river of [BLEEP]. I had to be thwarted at every turn from doing my job. The rat had to intervene. The roaches had to intervene. The excrement had to make the whole thing untenable. Only then did I look around and say, well, I can't do my job. Maybe I can help that guy do his.

• 40:22Ed Mylett?

  Love it. I'm the visual of the giant condom floating down the river of crap will not leave me for the rest of the day. So I appreciate that visual. But I, I think there's a lesson in there that, you know, you don't take credit for. It's why I asked you. And that is that, you know, the show is really about you are a guest and they are sort of the star of their career. But, you know, everyone hear what he just said. The greatest work of his life, the most impactful work of his life, all the other ancillary things that's come from it, came from a leap he made when he had a pretty decent gig going on. And he doesn't ever talk about that in most of the other interviews that I've seen him in. And that's a lesson for so many of us. You know, it's easy to want to change when life's hell. It's easy to want to change your conditions when things are like just terrible. But it's not so easy when things are pretty good and you're in a routine and you're getting some acknowledgement for it.

• 41:06Ed Mylett?

  It's not so bad. In fact, it's better than it used to be. It's a difficult time to say, no, I'm crumbling it up again and I'm going to the next level. I'm going to try something new and that took guts. And like for most people on the other side of that was probably an impact greater than the cumulative impact you had made in the first 42 years. I know you've got a lot of humility, but that's an absolute fact, is it not?

• 41:30Speaker 03

  Look, I'll, I'll take credit where it's due, you know? I mean, for instance, The whole Forrest Gumpian approach that led to Dirty Jobs is a completely unscriptable, unknowable thing. I created that show and I got it on the air and I'm proud of it. However, 32 other shows have come out of Dirty Jobs, that last count, probably more, 32. Now, I don't want the credit for those and I don't want the blame either because you can't control, but a very short list of things, you know, and you put your ideas

• 42:14Speaker 03

  out into the universe, you make your widget, you know. I put a show out into the universe. Some people looked at it and saw a reason to go to college, otherwise you're going to wind up crawling through a river of crap. Other people saw the same exact show and took great comfort in the fact that we found dignity in every single vocation. It's not up to me to decide what you see in Dirty Jobs. It's not up to Smith and Wesson to decide what you're going to do with the Saturday night special that you bought. Are you going to save someone? Are you going to protect your home? Are you going to make

• 42:55Speaker 03

  a life of crime with this tool? What are you going to do? It's not up to Mark Zuckerberg to decide what I'm going to say to the 6 million people on my Facebook page. Am I going to use that space to push forward ideas that I think are helpful and useful to my species? Or am I going to share recipes for casseroles and cat videos? Or am I going to use it to just rant and rage, you know, against all the injustice in the world? I get to choose how to use the tools at my disposal. Mark Zuckerberg and Mr. Remington and Smith and Wesson and, you know, they don't get to choose how the people use their

• 43:39Speaker 03

  tools. And I've been made hyper-aware of that over these last couple of years. We all have access to the same basic tools. What we do with them? Well, that's the difference between people who can sleep at night and people who can't.

• 43:56Ed Mylett?

  That's so true, but it takes courage to do that, especially when you're again, you didn't have to do any of that stuff and people would have kept just loving you and moved on with their lives. But you want to make a difference. You want to contribute. It's all about taking these risks. I'm curious for the 50 millionaires, though. So is there anything with them? Success leaves clues, right? Was there something that you noticed in them that maybe the other ones didn't have? Or that you just noticed in them that you'd impart on to people who want to be financially successful as they do their art form in their life?

• 44:25Speaker 03

  I think we've already talked around it a little bit, you know? Don't let anybody take the art out of your vocation. Don't let anyone do that. Don't look at whatever you think you're passionate about as the thing that leads you. Don't do that. It might, this is the real danger of following your passion. It might work. And when it works, other people look at that and assume, well, that's, that's the way to do it. It's a way. And sometimes a way is the right way. But there are a lot of people in this country, Ed, and a lot of people are singing out of a different hymn book.

• 45:08Speaker 03

  And a lot of people in terms of becoming successful. It's not at all about following your passion. It's like we said before, take the reverse commute. Find the thing that nobody's doing. Find the direction where no one's going and go in that direction. And then figure it out. Embrace the suck. There's not much new to say. This is the essential problem, you know, with, with conversations like this one. We, because we've had some success in our own life, we would like to be able to say something that really connects with the fat part of the bat. That can make, you know, millions of people nod their head in, in quiet agreement.

• 45:52Speaker 03

  You know, we, we want to help turn a light on someplace. But I'm afraid, really, if, if we're really committed to staying in our own lane, then the only thing we can really talk about as an expert is ourselves. It's, it's our own journey. It's our own path. It's our own peripetia, right? It's our own. Realization, you know, about what we thought we knew.

• 46:20Ed Mylett?

  I think you agree, by the way, I agree with you and I also agree with you on the the notion that I've just, that especially now that I'm in my 50s, the things that I really was sure I was right about, that I was just dead wrong about, creates a sense of humility in me, by the way, and curiosity, like what else am I wrong about in my life? However, there are clues and there are trends. For example, you say it more clearly, but in hindsight, I've interviewed a couple hundred entrepreneurs on the show. Not everyone that's been on the show has been an entrepreneur, but you know what? Most of them, you know, they got wealthy, solving a problem and chasing opportunity. Almost all of them. They word it differently than you do, but that's a clue. But there's another one. I want to unpack for a minute because I've not heard you talk about this and it's a theory that I have. One of the reasons I admire people that can, that art form I talked about, the gentleman who's fixed

• 47:04Ed Mylett?

  my car. One of the reasons is I lack that gift, talent, proclivity, and understanding. I just lack it. I, I think, could I have become a car mechanic? Yes. Would I have been a great one? Probably not. Reason, it's not lended in my giftedness, talent, or skill set. And I think one of the other elements is solving a problem, but I also think it's playing to some of your natural, what you want to call giftedness or talent, whether it's your intellect, your humor, your deep voice, your nurturing ability, problem solving, mechanical skills, whatever it might be. Most people are wired with two, three, four of these things. Actually, all people are. And I do think one of the success principles

• 47:46Ed Mylett?

  is probably that they utilize some of those talents or gifts in their vocation in the service of other people. You've clearly done that. Do you agree with that when you go back, kind of look at these people with these dirty jobs and also even within your own life?

• 48:02Speaker 03

  Well, I think whenever you feel like you're playing the cards you got, well. Then you feel smart, like these are my gifts, these are my tools, this is my toolbox. And now it's incumbent upon me to, to do the best work I can with the tools that I have. That's when I feel like a grown up, you know, but it's a different conversation to develop a new tool. That takes a different kind of a, of a mindset. The reason I think that humility is so important to entrepreneurs is because, well, you just said it. You, you can't be a curious person and not be a humble person.

• 48:45Speaker 03

  Because if you're curious about something, by definition, it means you, you don't know the answer. And if you can't admit that you don't know the answer, then you lack humility. So you can't be curious and arrogant at the same time. And unfortunately, uh, I guess you can, because I know some people who are or who claim to be. But I don't believe you can be a genuinely curious person without being a genuinely humble person. The reason this is important, and I'll compliment you, you, you just said it. You're, you have a healthy self-esteem, obviously, but you're not threatened by the fact that there are people in your life who can do things that you can't do.

• 49:31Speaker 03

  Right? That is important, right? You're able to value what your mechanic does in part because you can't do it. Now, the fault in our stars and a thing that I think a lot of people struggle with is, and I'm just going to generalize, which I hate to do, but I think this is a, a basically a true thing to say. We resent all too often that which we depend upon.

• 50:02Speaker 03

  And this happens because when we are confronted with people who who can do things we can't do. Well, we we perceive it as a threat, or maybe just a reminder of our own incompetence. Now, I I walked in my office, you know, I flicked on the lights. I did not pause to say, my God, what a miracle. I hooked up this internet connection, I clicked on the link. I was not properly gobsmacked when we actually entered the room, right? This thing we're doing right now is a freaking miracle, all right? It's a miracle. This morning, I took care of business in the upstairs bathroom, flushed the toilet and watched it go away. You don't think that's a miracle?

• 50:47Speaker 03

  It is a miracle. Now, here's the interesting thing. For all that to happen, I I depend upon an electrician. I depend upon a plumber. I depend upon a skilled workforce to allow me to do all of the things that I now take for granted. But what happens when the toilet doesn't flush? What happens when? How frustrated do you get when you can't get a good internet hookup? How? How crazy do you get when the electricity goes off for a couple hours? Never mind three, four days like it did where I live last year. When you lose power in a place like Marin,

• 51:27Speaker 03

  it's only a matter of of of a day or two until the residents are shaking their fists at the linemen who are up on the pole trying to fix the problem because they're so frustrated that they don't have power. What they're really frustrated by is the fact that they are reliant on somebody. They have come to depend on someone. And we resent the fact that all of a sudden we can't take care of our own power. We can't take care of our own plumbing issues. This is why work. Is such an important thing to talk about because all work is connected. It's not about blue collar or white collar. Screw the color of collars.

• 52:11Speaker 03

  That doesn't matter anymore. What matters is what happens when you elevate certain jobs as essential. And then in a de facto tacit way, label all the other jobs as non-essential. You tell 40 million people they're non-essential for a year or so. Well, guess what? That's where we are right now. This silver lining that I think, one of the silver linings that might come out of these crazy lockdowns is the reality that there is no such thing as a non-essential worker. Everybody's essential to somebody, even if it's just themselves. So that's a whole lot of hippie dippy philosophical stuff.

• 52:53Ed Mylett?

  I want to say something to you about this important. I wanted to get this out because we're going to be limited on time and I want to acknowledge something on you. First off, what you said, I want to unpack one thing. People like to be around the most, and I think the happiest people have, they toe this nuance between humility and confidence. People that are overly confident, lack humility, they're not curious, they don't learn, they usually burn out at some point and crap out. People with a ton of humility and are humble with not a lot of self-confidence, they don't usually get around to doing a whole lot. So it's, it's this nuance between those lines that I think you toe. I'd like to think I'm working on toeing that line. And I'm going to finish with a question about humor, but I want to acknowledge something about you. I was waiting to tell you this because I just think people should know this about you. When I first started to become a more public person, I was at a resort, I won't name it, it was in Hawaii.

• 53:37Ed Mylett?

  You were there. Maybe you could flashback, I don't know how many times you've been, it's a very, very nice resort. And I was there with my wife and I had just become a public person. And, and navigating that as an introverted person and wondering what that would be like. And I just want to acknowledge something, you and I didn't meet, but we walked by each other several times. But by the time those five days were over, that entire resort loved you. And you were so kind. And generous and humble with all of the people there, the people that worked there, the servers, the waiters, the guests that were sitting at the bar having a drink that you walked up and just sat down with and talked with for a while. And I want you to know it made a massive impression on me upon me because I said to myself,

• 54:22Ed Mylett?

  if I'm going to become a well-known person, I want to treat people the way this man treats people. This was in a private moment, the cameras weren't on you. I just want to acknowledge that about you. This thing about humility that you're describing is true about you. And I have actual real life evidence about it because I watched it for about five days from a distance and many, many times when I've been in public and it becomes a little bit overwhelming. And you know what I mean? When you're having dinner and people are coming up to a table or whatever, I've reflected back on how you handled yourself at that place. And kind of a small quarters of these resorts, people figure out, oh, Mike Rowe here. You know exactly what I mean. So I just want to acknowledge that with you.

• 55:00Speaker 03

  That's the, um, that's the kindest thing anybody has ever said to me in an interview. I appreciate that because look, it goes, I was learning a lesson. I know the resort you're talking about, I haven't been there in about eight years. I miss that place. It's terrific. But, um, I was learning a really important lesson around that same time. And the lesson was the correct answer to this question. Who's your boss? And when you're a freelancer, as I had been for many, many years, my boss was the person who signed my check. Sometimes it was Discovery, sometimes it was Ford, sometimes it was CNN.

• 55:43Speaker 03

  It was a lot of different people. But when Dirty Jobs actually hit, that's when I realized I work for the people who watch the show. I work for the people who serve me the beer. I work for the fellow guests who are around who might know me. And if you're ever looking for a simple hack to get out of your own head when you're feeling put upon because somebody comes up to you in a restaurant at an inopportune moment. You just ask yourself, who's your boss? They're your boss, you know, they're your boss. We're, you know, it's a privilege to work in the public eye. It's not a burden. And if you have a chance to, you know, to move that needle,

• 56:28Speaker 03

  it is useful to remember from time to time who you actually work for.

• 56:33Ed Mylett?

  I remember you and I've been, I have enough friends that are well known where I've seen the difference too. So I just wanted to let everyone know that about you. Last thing, one of the things I've observed in you is your humor. And I feel like that's a hack to get through life better, to see the funny in things. And I also think that probably helps you connect with people. So I'm just curious, like, if you've always been funny, always found the funny, or is that like, I mean, as we sound overly dramatic, like, are you kind of conscious of that? And because I think that disarms people, one of the things you have to do on your show is you're there. I mean, I don't know how many days you shoot, two or three days, or one day you actually shoot. You have to connect with people that you're doing this with. All business, all people are connecting and we're always making people feel something.

• 57:18Ed Mylett?

  So if we're just conscious of, I'm always making people feel something. Ask yourself, what do most people feel when they're around you? With you, it seems like even in the interview, I can see this. This is really wonderful sense of humor. That conscious, do you do that as a strategy? Is it just who you are and are even aware you do it?

• 57:35Speaker 03

  Well, I think the humor that exists inherently on job sites is impossible to overstate. It's always there, you know, and it's rarely captured on television because television is a lie. You know, we don't do a second take on dirty jobs because the second take is a performance. And the third take is just another version of another performance. So the humor that comes out of the show is in large part already there. And my job is just to get out of the way and let, and let people be themselves. Cause most people are looking for the funny. Personally,

• 58:20Speaker 03

  I I never looked at myself as a comedian, but I do appreciate a good joke and I like to think I can tell one. But the more important thing for me on that show was to try and do and say the thing that I would do or say if I were watching the show with my friends, right? It's I it's a difficult thing to articulate. But if I had control of the remote and we were all sitting together in a room, watching a show that I was in, and I could pause the show and then turn to you and tell you what was going on in my head right there, or,

• 59:00Speaker 03

  you know, share some sort of insight, then I think that would really be valuable. And so the only really smart thing I think I did within Dirty Jobs in an attempt to to make people as comfortable as possible was A, eliminate the second take, but B, the method that allowed that to happen was a behind the scenes camera. So what you see on Dirty Jobs in many cases is a documentary camera. The crew is there and they're shooting the show like a normal TV show. But as you know, you know, batteries die and planes fly over

• 59:42Speaker 03

  and all sorts of things happen that get in the way of an authentic experience. Production, in other words, is the enemy of authenticity. And so you need it because you have no show without it. But if you have too much of it, then you're just in your own way. And so my way around that was to hire a guy to document the making of the show. So every time we had to stop down for any reason, I could turn to that camera and I could tell the viewer exactly what was going on in real time. Now, that did two things. The first thing it did for the viewer was create a feeling that they were a fly on the wall and seeing the the truth of the day.

• 1:00:27Speaker 03

  And in fact, they were. But the other thing that I didn't understand exactly how important that would be, and the answer to your question is that the person I was talking to, the person who was being featured, the person who I needed to be comfortable enough to really be themselves, when they saw me. Reveal that level of vulnerability and disclosure to the viewer. They got super comfortable. So first of all, we featured people who are doing the thing they do every day, all day anyway. And we're doing it in a way that really embraces,

• 1:01:07Speaker 03

  you know, what we would say in the documentary, you know, the big nature documentary world is the submissive posture. Right. It's me is like when the small wolf runs into the big wolf. The small wolf, he don't, he don't fight. He just lies down and shows his belly. And says, look, I get it. You're big. I'm small. You could eat me. I hope you don't. But let's just get all that out of the way so we can go along and have our day. And that's what I would try and do with every episode. I would, I would try and assume a submissive posture early on, be humble, be vulnerable. Let the viewer see it, but most importantly, let the subject see it. And then we could have an honest conversation and then you can be funny.

• 1:01:49Speaker 03

  Not because you're funny, ha ha, but because when you're comfortable enough to be yourself, whatever funny thing you got going on is going to come out. So Dirty Jobs was never meant to be a comedy, but it's funny. It's funny because it's real.

• 1:02:03Ed Mylett?

  Funny. I hope that everyone rewinds the last like three minutes there and listens to that through the prism of your own career. Your vulnerability makes people comfortable. All of the stuff that you just described there, I'm thinking of sales, I'm thinking of board meetings, I'm thinking of family. And obviously I'm thinking of Dirty Jobs. I enjoyed today so flipping much. I knew I would because I've always just admired you since that time eight years ago. But now they get to know you better and experience your wisdom and I, I really, really enjoyed today. I know my audience did too. So thank you, Mike, very much.

• 1:02:34Speaker 03

  I enjoyed it too. It's flattering and it's, and it's always nice. Look, there, there are two basic groups of people, right? There's the choir. That you preach to from time to time and there's the masses and you never really know who's out there and you never really know who's listening. I get the sense, I get the sense that you know who your audience is and, and I hope I said something useful to them, but you, my friend, feel like, you feel like somebody in the choir that I could preach to from time to time.

• 1:03:03Ed Mylett?

  Thank you. I would love that. Maybe we'll be at that resort together soon together. You never know. It'd be good to be back there, wouldn't it?

• 1:03:08Speaker 03

  I can think of worse things. You know what? I, I did go back there after a hurricane. You probably remember about eight, nine years ago, they had hurricane and I helped work on the place and put it back together a little bit. And, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm due for a, uh, for a, for a redux for sure.

• 1:03:24Ed Mylett?

  Hey, you're feeding the, the softball to me. I hope everybody's due to see Dirty Jobs because it's back. Discovery Channel, 8:00 PM. You guys get back and support the show and enjoy it and let's celebrate hard work and celebrate these great working people through Mike's efforts. So Mike Rowe, thank you for being here today and, uh, and everybody else, share the show, fastest growing show in the world for reasons because you guys share it and today's no exception. Lot of insight, lot of depth, lot of information, lot of notes, and hopefully a lot of entertainment. So God bless you all. Max out.

• 1:03:53Speaker 02

  This is the Ed Mileage Show.