WTF Happened in 2025 - Waveform Rewind

It's the last regularly scheduled episode of the year and the gadgets just keep coming! Marques, Andrew, and David get right into the Samsung Galaxy Z TriFold before talking about a new Instagram app and a new AI feature coming soon to a Gmail near you! After that, it's all about the EV world with discussion turning to the discontinuation of the Ford F-150 Lightning and then a quick recap on Rivian's Autonomy day. We close it out by recapping some of our best and worst predictions from last year. It's a chaotic one this week. Enjoy! Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Links: Verge - Twitter trademark story Verge - Instagram TV app Google - CC beta MKBHD - Samsung Galaxy Z TriFold video Rivian - Autonomy day This episode brought to you by: LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/mkbhd Coderabbit - www.coderabbit.ai/mkbhd Darktrace - www.darktrace.com/defenders Shopify - www.shopify.com/waveform T-Mobile - www.t-mobile.com Music provided by: Epidemic Sound Social: Waveform Threads: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Waveform Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waveformpodcast/?hl=en Waveform TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Hosts: Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Intro/Outro music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Andrew Manganelli?

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, host Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring your fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting? And what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episodes and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from, but when that context is scattered across tools, threads, and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying blind. That's the problem that Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all these pieces together, from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more, so nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  That's J-I-R-A dot com.

• 1:21Andrew Manganelli?

  We've all watched Hot Ones enough.

• 1:22David Imel?

  I have not.

• 1:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Everyone but David has watched Hot Ones enough that we should all know this.

• 1:27David Imel?

  The only Hot Ones episode I watched was the one where, what's his name?

• 1:31Andrew Manganelli?

  You better be careful.

• 1:32Speaker 03

  David, Mark has been on it twice.

• 1:35David Imel?

  I think I watched that one. Wait, twice? I watched one. I didn't know you went on again. Unbelievable. I talked so much about you on that episode. That's crazy.

• 1:48Andrew Manganelli?

  He was like, "My good friend David."

• 1:50David Imel?

  There was a whole section where Sean is like, "I heard you're friends with David." You should totally watch it, dude. It was so good. All right, that's cool. Keep it up.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  Yo, what's up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts, I'm Marquez.

• 2:06Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm Andrew.

• 2:06Speaker 01

  And I'm David. And this week, we've got regularly scheduled... I said else is gonna interrupt.

• 2:12Speaker 03

  I haven't interrupted you, that's right. Because...

• 2:16Speaker 01

  And I'm wrong, Burgundy?

• 2:20Speaker 03

  And I'm interrupting you because this episode is not like normal episodes. Do you guys know why this is a very special episode?

• 2:30Speaker 01

  Is it because it's the last one?

• 2:32Speaker 03

  It is coincidentally the last episode of the year, but that's not what I was going for.

• 2:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Last regularly scheduled of the year.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's not what he means.

• 2:39Speaker 03

  Hit it, Rich.

• 2:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, no.

• 2:40Speaker 03

  Guys, this episode is being taped at 5:00 PM, which means this is the first ever episode of...

• 2:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh. Waveform After Dark?

• 2:55Speaker 03

  Thank you, Rich, you can get the lights again.

• 2:58Andrew Manganelli?

  I was wondering why Rich was here. I was like, this is a long clip for you.

• 3:04Speaker 03

  That was it.

• 3:05Speaker 01

  Should we talk about why we're here at 5:00 PM?

• 3:08Speaker 03

  Yes, we should.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  That's a good transition. Okay, so today I got to finally get some hands-on time with this thing right here, which is the Samsung Galaxy Z Trifold.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  This morning, we went into the city, got some info from Samsung on what it was about, and got to shoot some footage of it, and then we got back to the studio, and the one that I bought from Korea had also arrived the same day, and that is this one right here. So... How much did it cost you from Korea? Do you know how much it costs? So, I'm gonna get my invoice later, so I don't actually know, but I hear it's somewhere between $2,500 and $3,000.

• 3:43Speaker 03

  Dang.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  It's an expensive phone, but I, you know, I've watched other people's videos on it, and I've seen photos of it, and it looks like such a chunk, and I keep thinking, oh, it's kind of a gimmick, like whatever Samsung's doing the Trifold thing, but it's obviously not gonna be reasonable to use. And then I picked it up and held it, and I used it with the screen closed, which is basically the same as the Z Fold 7, and it's fine. And then I opened it, and it's a whole tablet on the inside, and I'm starting to think this is actually kind of a nice, like, a really nice phone this year. It's obviously super expensive, but I'm holding up to the camera for the video viewers. This thing is a full diagonal 10-inch tablet on the inside, and...

• 4:22David Imel?

  I like it more than I thought I would. So are we gonna get rid of short form video now that we're gonna be able to have landscapes in our pockets?

• 4:29Andrew Manganelli?

  No, because, like you said, you said this before.

• 4:32David Imel?

  You don't have to do that.

• 4:34Andrew Manganelli?

  You can put three short form videos across it and play it like a slot machine.

• 4:39David Imel?

  Wait, can you actually?

• 4:40Andrew Manganelli?

  It's literally short form slots.

• 4:42Speaker 03

  YouTube Shorts. And if you get all three screens showing the same short, like it's a For You page, then you win.

• 4:49Andrew Manganelli?

  And you can't stop until that happens.

• 4:52David Imel?

  Yeah, instead of it being like a seven, a cherry, like three or four things, it's millions of videos that you have to get lined up. So yeah, you can do three things side by side. If you get all three videos being the same, then Neil Moynihan has to step down and you become the CEO of YouTube.

• 5:09David Imel?

  His name is Neil Moynihan, by the way, not Moynihan Station. Sorry, Neil. I love Moynihan Station, that's beautiful.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  So there's a couple quirks about this. I'll go through, so the basic specs are actually kind of fine, they're just like a one-year-old flagship. Samsung is using the Snapdragon 8 Elite for Galaxy, so not Elite Gen 5, but Elite for Galaxy. The only spec is 512 gigs of storage and 16 gigs of RAM, so that's pretty sweet. The outside screen, like I said, is the exact same as Z Fold 7.

• 5:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, real quick, is there a one-tarby version? I thought on the Samsung Press Mobile something.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  Maybe that's not coming to the US, because I was told it's only one spec, 512.

• 5:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, there might be somewhere where you can get a one-tarby version.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, even better. But yeah, the outside screen, the cover screen, is just your classic 21 by, what is it, 21 by 9, I think? It's a widescreen, obviously. 2600 nits, 120 hertz, why am I, it's hard to talk. I've been talking all day.

• 6:10David Imel?

  It's been a long day.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  But then you open the phone, oh, on the back has the cameras, same as the Z Fold 7 as well. So 200 megapixel primary, and then an ultrawide and a 3X telephoto.

• 6:21David Imel?

  So mid, great.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, mid. But then you open it, and it's like, it's a tablet.

• 6:26David Imel?

  So do.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  It's all the things, you can watch full-screen videos, you can game, you can have apps side by side, and they're not actually cramped. That's huge.

• 6:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  Uh, you can type on a full-size keyboard. You have Dex all the time, even without being connected to a monitor. Uh, you can also connect it to a monitor, mouse and keyboard, and use it as a second display.

• 6:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I ask a stupid question?

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Go for it.

• 6:47Andrew Manganelli?

  What does Dex not on a monitor even mean? Because isn't the whole point of Dex?

• 6:52Speaker 01

  It's floating windows.

• 6:53Andrew Manganelli?

  It's just like, it's just more computer-like, I guess.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:55Andrew Manganelli?

  But on the screen. Okay.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, that's a very valid question.

• 6:59David Imel?

  Yeah, so it's like full, it's full-screen apps that give-

• 7:02Andrew Manganelli?

  What's a computer?

• 7:03David Imel?

  Different, like, like, if you're in the files app, it'll show the full tree structure. Uh, and then you can resize windows and you can keep them in certain areas. It's literally a desktop.

• 7:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Everything's computer.

• 7:12David Imel?

  Everything's computer. I know. It's just an iPad. Well, it's a Samsung Galaxy Tab.

• 7:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. Oh, wait, that's kind of-

• 7:18Speaker 01

  So I've got three windows open here, and then I go, you know what? I want to go to a new space.

• 7:22David Imel?

  Whoa.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  And do three more windows, and then move back.

• 7:26Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm gonna say something real quick. Those creases are pretty rough right now. Those are not good.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  So the creases are rough, and-

• 7:33David Imel?

  Whatever.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  It's like, it's kind of similar to the early generations of other phones with crease, where when I'm looking at it and using it, the content is more than enough to distract me from the crease. But if I am analyzing the hardware, yeah, it's so obvious. The creases, the creases are two different sizes. Because there are two different hinge ratios, because the left side is the inside fold, and the outside folds around the inside folds. It's even bigger. So, yeah, there is a lot going on with the hardware engineering, but, uh, I found that actually using the phone and just watching videos and like typing and emailing and all that stuff is really solid.

• 8:04David Imel?

  Question.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:05David Imel?

  Uh, considering the square aspect ratio of a bifold is kind of lame, uh, for watching videos and doesn't really do anything for you, in my humblest opinion.

• 8:17David Imel?

  How much of a 16 by 9 video fits full-screen on this? How many, how many black borders?

• 8:23Speaker 01

  There's small black borders. So the whole thing wide open is 16 by 11. So it's pretty close to, like, if you watch, I don't know if you can find a 16 by 92 video, but our videos are 2 by 1, and there's reasonable black bars, but it's way bigger than a slab.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  And if you go, yeah, 16 by 9 videos, you're even smaller black bars, top and bottom. So it's like, it's most of the display, though, you'd say? Yeah. It's pretty nice. Apps that use the whole screen, like gaming or whatever?

• 8:49Andrew Manganelli?

  The split-screen keyboard is literally, there's no keyboard on the middle panel. That's so wild.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Samsung's tablets do that, too. So they just treat it like a tablet.

• 9:00Andrew Manganelli?

  It makes sense, it's just really jarring to see a whole panel with nothing in it.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  I do love the idea of, like, being on an airplane and being able to play, like, a PlayStation 2 game with a controller. Like, is that not awesome? God, that's sick. Is that not awesome? God of War? Yeah. I'm preemptively thinking about what the comments will be, like, we just published our video, my hands on with it. I think one common concern or question that I have is like, alright, I already have a tablet, like, why is this better than a tablet? It's not, it's just that it can fit in your pocket. Yeah. That's like the main, like, obviously, if you already have a phone and a tablet, this isn't for you, but the person who wants to have a phone and a tablet, but take it in their pocket with them? Yeah. This does that. I mean, you have to have a bag to carry a tablet with you, basically. Yeah. You don't with this. With a 10-inch screen, yeah. That is pretty amazing. So that's sweet.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  It has a cellular connection all the time, which is nice for a tablet, it's thinner, probably than the tablet you're thinking of. But the other thing is, it's definitely a smaller battery than the tablet you're thinking of. Yeah. Most 10-inch tablets have, like, an 8,000 milliampere battery, roughly. Even Samsung's, like, S10, Tab S10, has a roughly 8,000 milliampere battery. This has a 5,600 milliampere battery? Is that YouTube's desktop site?

• 10:11Andrew Manganelli?

  No, that's actually, I'm trying to find a 16 by 9 video, so that's your iPhone 5S review.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Is that a 16 by 9 video?

• 10:17Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm, I was guessing, we switched to 2 by 1 when Brandon and Vin convinced us to, like, 2018, so.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  That's pretty good, and then you can enlarge it, and then it's... And that looks awesome. Looks pretty good.

• 10:27Andrew Manganelli?

  That's pretty... I don't know, that's definitely cutting a lot off the sides when it's fullscreen.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  It is when you fullscreen, but yeah. What is the IP rating of this?

• 10:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Forty-eight.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  IP forty-eight, which is also the same as a Z Fold seven. So you can drop some water on it, next to it, around it. That's impressive. Yeah. For a Gen one.

• 10:44Andrew Manganelli?

  A dust particle or like piece of sand being folded in not once, but now twice.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  Probably bad. Probably don't get dust around it.

• 10:53David Imel?

  I am concerned about that. That's gonna be the longevity test for people that have this early.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think this is fair to consider it a first gen product. Like it's a first gen tri-fold, so it's first gen something. I think I'll turn rotation lock off. Rotation rock. Rotate. Rotation. I turn the, I turn rotation lock off. I've said so many words today.

• 11:14David Imel?

  Have you seen that trend that's been going around that's like, it's on the TV and it goes rock, sock, rock, sock.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  Yes, I've seen this.

• 11:20David Imel?

  I feel like you could not do that right now.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  I'd be very bad at it right now. Marques, are you gonna daily this? I've been thinking about it.

• 11:25David Imel?

  You gotta.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  I imported it from Korea, so I'm not exactly sure what the bands or situation's gonna be looking like. But on this, on this phone, I think I would like to daily it. I think I can get my eSIM in there and try it.

• 11:35David Imel?

  Oh, it's not. Landscape lock is not. Oh, wait. Yes, it was. Hold on.

• 11:38Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 11:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Almost didn't daily it, because we almost just lost it.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  Just dropped it on the floor.

• 11:44Speaker 03

  The amount of products that we've like taken out the box and dropped on this podcast is like...

• 11:50David Imel?

  Linus, watch out. Alright. Cool.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm, I'm more of a fan than I expected to be. I really think there's a big difference between the on-screen presence and the in-hand presence of this phone.

• 12:01David Imel?

  For sure.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  Which is so hard to convey in video because you're watching this on a screen. So it's like, it probably doesn't translate very well, but you'll have to take my word for it.

• 12:09David Imel?

  I can't wait till there's another Chinese version of this, but it has better batteries and it's got like 12,000 million powers or something.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  Seems like that's in route. I mean, are we talking about this later? But isn't there some more steam for this iPhone Fold this year?

• 12:22David Imel?

  Yeah, it's coming out next year. People think it's gonna be like kind of a squat, regular sized phone and then it opens up to be wider than it is tall. Which makes sense, because the whole idea with all these square folds is you don't really get a ton out of a lot of media situations.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  Is that a new leak that just came out?

• 12:39Andrew Manganelli?

  I saw someone posting it, but it looks so poorly like rendered, it felt... I just like glazed.

• 12:46Speaker 03

  So it like opens up into like an iPad mini, like turned on its side, basically.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  Kinda, yeah, I think I saw somebody did a mock up of basically like, imagine like the first gen pixel fold, like that sort of passport size, but then you open it and it's wider screen. And that makes it better for watching videos on the inside.

• 13:04Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  Which I could see that being a highlight, you know, of this phone.

• 13:08Speaker 03

  Okay, a question for you guys about this. Fast forward 10 years.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 13:13Speaker 03

  Are we using smart glasses? Or are we using folds like this that unfold into like a giant tablet?

• 13:19Speaker 01

  Hmm, this. I mean, we'll have smart glasses as well.

• 13:23Andrew Manganelli?

  You said 10 years or five years?

• 13:25Speaker 03

  I say 10 years, let's do 10 years.

• 13:26Speaker 01

  I think that not everyone is gonna, if you're, if you don't have a prescription, you'll use smart glasses as sunglasses. If you do have a prescription, people will start using smart glasses on the daily. But I don't think it's gonna replace their phone. I think it's just gonna be the meta Ray-Ban style. You know, it'll have a display, it'll give you notifications, but I don't know. I probably won't wear it because I have perfect vision.

• 13:50Speaker 03

  I think, I think there's like a degree where like, we're, now that we're, we're hitting like max dopamine technology, you know?

• 13:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:58Speaker 03

  We're finding that like outside of video games and vertical video, like people don't really spend like that much time using tech. So I, I think the value prop of a device that can't really do vertical video that well or game very well, like, I don't know if people are gonna wear, no, no, smart glasses.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 14:17Speaker 03

  Like, I don't know.

• 14:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Smart glasses can do vertical videos. I would argue smart glasses, that's kind of the point of it is it's just, it's there when you need it. And because it's so convenient that it's there the times you do need it and you don't have to pull something out of your pocket. It's just like, right there.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  Fun fact.

• 14:35Andrew Manganelli?

  I ain't trying to waste time pulling out of my pocket. I don't even, I use wireless charging. I'm efficiency major right here.

• 14:42Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  You can doom scroll Instagram reels on the meta.

• 14:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, on the highways.

• 14:47Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:49Speaker 03

  Oh, God.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  That's one of their use cases. Yeah. I just looked it up. Um, we went from not having any foldables to having foldables the way we have them now in about eight years.

• 15:01Speaker 04

  Has it been that long?

• 15:02Speaker 01

  Like the Z Fold 1 is 2019 and we had foldables for maybe a year or two before that. So like 2017 to 2025.

• 15:09Andrew Manganelli?

  And it's progressed so much that even this triple folding, well, the tri-fold is thinner than the Z Fold 5.

• 15:17Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 15:18Andrew Manganelli?

  It was that thick for that long.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  Like when it's folded up?

• 15:21Andrew Manganelli?

  When it's folded up, it is thinner than the Z Fold 5. When the Z Fold 5 is folded.

• 15:24Speaker 04

  Unfolded, it's thinner than the iPhone Air. We put it up to Brandon's.

• 15:29Andrew Manganelli?

  The panels are three different sizes. Are they all smaller than it?

• 15:32David Imel?

  Well, you know, it's only as thin as its thickest point.

• 15:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, you can't fit it through a slot.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  That is one of the interesting things about this phone is each one of these panels is a slightly different thickness. 3.9 millimeters on the left, 4.2 millimeters in the middle, 4.0 millimeters on the right. To fit battery and USB Type C and, you know, speakers and all the things happening in this phone. That's just how it, but yeah, they're all thinner than the iPhone Air. And then you fold it up and it's thinner than Z Fold 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. Kind of crazy.

• 16:05Andrew Manganelli?

  I think I just realized a very small mistake we made in the video.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  I cut that out.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  I'm thinking the same thing.

• 16:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Cause you said the middle panel for USB C, but it's the middle panel when it's folded. When it's unfolded, it's the right panel.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  Yep. Oh, God. I caught that and cut it out.

• 16:20Andrew Manganelli?

  I, yeah, I would never would have thought of that.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  Things are a lot harder to describe when you have 3D space.

• 16:26Speaker 01

  Audio people are like, I don't understand.

• 16:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, yeah, audio people, when you're unfolding it, it kind of looks, I'm not doing that anymore.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  The phone's USB C port is on the bottom when it is folded up, but because the bottom is actually the middle.

• 16:39Speaker 04

  The rightmost.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  Wait, nevermind. It's the rightmost panel. Is the USB.

• 16:43Speaker 04

  Yes, the rightmost panel, which is the bottom when it's folded.

• 16:45Andrew Manganelli?

  What is?

• 16:46Speaker 03

  You ever, you ever bought like a, like a fish from a fishmonger? It kind of unfolds like that. Like, like you lay it down, you go one, and then two, and then you got your fish.

• 16:55Andrew Manganelli?

  I

• 16:55Speaker 01

  I believe you.

• 16:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Isn't there like, is it on Reddit or something when you like retire a phrase because it perfectly hits? Like you found the perfect description for that?

• 17:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:07Andrew Manganelli?

  I think we can retire fingerprint magnet with this phone because

• 17:10Speaker 01

  Cause

• 17:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Dear lord, the amount of fingerprints on the surface area of this phone.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 17:15David Imel?

  You gotta wear gloves.

• 17:16Speaker 01

  It's like this black and gray carbon fiber mimicking fiberglass composite. It's smooth ish, and I think it makes sense in here.

• 17:27David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  Because you have to make something smooth with a little bit of a bezel that you can then safely close the outside screen over.

• 17:34David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  Uh, so no real texture, but yeah, very much a fingerprint magnet.

• 17:39David Imel?

  Did you get the kickstand case with it?

• 17:41Speaker 01

  Uh, the case that comes with it is just a sort of a back spine and back cover case. So that's, that's the Samsung case. It also comes with a 45 watt charger in the box. It's crazy.

• 17:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Throw you a little bone for $3,000.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:56David Imel?

  That wobble is crazy.

• 17:59Speaker 01

  I saw, I mentioned in the video, I got, every time I mentioned, people were like, whoa, but you put a case on it? Okay. So fine. So you'll put a case on, it'll be fine. But this is one of the biggest wobblers of all.

• 18:07David Imel?

  The case that comes with this, then enough, it's still gonna wobble like this.

• 18:10Speaker 01

  It wobbles a lot less. It, I tried it. I actually think that they thought about that when it made a case for this.

• 18:15Andrew Manganelli?

  They should bring back the bikini case for this.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  The bikini cases, actually it was kind of iconic.

• 18:20Andrew Manganelli?

  It was iconic. Ellis doesn't remember it. Search Galaxy S8 bikini.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  Was it S8?

• 18:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Galaxy S8.

• 18:28David Imel?

  Can I hold it?

• 18:29Speaker 01

  I for one, and I'm excited for you to test this so that I can decide whether or not I definitely will not.

• 18:34David Imel?

  I did it wrong and it yelled at me.

• 18:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, I did wanna see that.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  It yells, it vibrates at you.

• 18:39David Imel?

  It vibrates strongly.

• 18:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I see that?

• 18:41David Imel?

  Yeah, it's like, so you, can I break it? Is it bad?

• 18:45Speaker 01

  I haven't.

• 18:46David Imel?

  It's bad if you break it.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  Nothing's really happy. I mean, if you try to like smush it, it'll probably not be good.

• 18:54David Imel?

  No, you can do that. You can do it the wrong way.

• 18:56Speaker 04

  Why is it yelling at me?

• 18:57Andrew Manganelli?

  No, it does. When the screen's on, probably.

• 18:58David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 19:00Speaker 04

  Ah, stop!

• 19:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 19:01David Imel?

  Yeah, it doesn't like it.

• 19:02Speaker 03

  Doesn't like it.

• 19:03David Imel?

  It yells at you. But otherwise, yeah, very intuitive. Well, I'm excited to see whether or not you actually get value out of this. This is what I have considered like the dream device for a very, very long time. And if I could have something that I could just carry a little bit, a little keyboard with me and a little mouse with me, and I could just write on Google, all I want to do is write on Google Docs. That's all I want to do. Without having to carry a laptop. So if this can do that, I'm very happy.

• 19:29Andrew Manganelli?

  I just like that the Light Phone and this came out in the same year.

• 19:32Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 19:33David Imel?

  Maximalist and minimalist.

• 19:35Speaker 03

  I, I do maintain like the most fun I've ever had on a foldable is e-reading with one page on each side and I don't know what that would be like.

• 19:43David Imel?

  Cause it looks like a real book?

• 19:44Speaker 03

  It feels like a real book, yeah.

• 19:46Andrew Manganelli?

  A real book couldn't even do this.

• 19:47David Imel?

  Can this do three pages?

• 19:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:50David Imel?

  Four dimensional book right here.

• 19:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:54David Imel?

  Okay. Great.

• 19:56Andrew Manganelli?

  So yeah, that was our, we have the Z Fold in, in-house for real, for real, on God, underscore final dot MP4.

• 20:04David Imel?

  Last week's episode, we titled the Galaxy Z Fold, the Galaxy Z Trifold is here for real, for real on God. What are we supposed to title this week's episode?

• 20:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Underscore final dot MP4.

• 20:15David Imel?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you like that?

• 20:17Andrew Manganelli?

  No, I think, yeah.

• 20:19David Imel?

  Alright.

• 20:19Andrew Manganelli?

  That, that title went hard last week also. CTR was fantastic.

• 20:23David Imel?

  It was really. Speaking of the things that you can do on the Galaxy Z Trifold. If there is, if, if there was this new social media app coming out that is supposed to replace Twitter. You could run it on one of the three screens.

• 20:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Was that a, was that a Segway?

• 20:42David Imel?

  That's what I was trying to do.

• 20:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 20:44David Imel?

  Yeah. C plus.

• 20:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 20:45David Imel?

  What?

• 20:46Andrew Manganelli?

  I expect that.

• 20:46David Imel?

  Come on! It was alright.

• 20:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Alright. Was Segway Wordle last night?

• 20:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:51Andrew Manganelli?

  No, Sway.

• 20:55David Imel?

  I think it was Segway.

• 20:56Andrew Manganelli?

  It was either Segway or Sway.

• 20:57David Imel?

  Segway, yeah.

• 20:58Andrew Manganelli?

  I think I'd guessed Sway first.

• 21:00David Imel?

  Well, well, what is this social media app?

• 21:01Speaker 03

  Alright, let me tell you about this.

• 21:02David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 21:03Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 21:03David Imel?

  So is it federated?

• 21:04Speaker 03

  No, it's not. And this is why I think it's point-

• 21:08David Imel?

  This is why I'm like, if you're gonna make a social media app in the future, just stop non-federating them. Come on, guys.

• 21:15Speaker 01

  So what is it?

• 21:15David Imel?

  Or in 2020. Okay, so a couple of weeks ago, this startup popped up called Operation Bluebird. And effectively, what they're trying to do is get the Twitter name back, because they are making the claim that X abandoned the Twitter name when they switched everything to X, which I would, you know, agree with.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  I would disagree.

• 21:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Really?

• 21:37David Imel?

  Dude.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  I think they very hastily changed some things, like the URL and the logo to X, but for a long time, pieces of the UI in the settings still said Twitter.

• 21:47David Imel?

  Correct, but that was them being like lazy.

• 21:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I like agree with both of you. I think it is still everywhere and it's still almost considered Twitter for the most part, but I think the owners of Twitter.

• 21:58David Imel?

  They said.

• 21:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 22:00David Imel?

  It's not Twitter anymore.

• 22:01Andrew Manganelli?

  And like, they make fun of people for calling it Twitter still and like.

• 22:05David Imel?

  Elon replied to you on X. You said, "I'm still calling it Twitter," and Elon said, "You won't."

• 22:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, well.

• 22:11David Imel?

  Is that, that's gotta be used in the litigation.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  We're still calling it Twitter today.

• 22:15David Imel?

  That's gotta be used in litigation. Yeah, anyway, so last week, they filed a petition to the US Patent Office to cancel X's ownership of the trademarks for Twitter and Tweet.

• 22:24Speaker 01

  Trademark.

• 22:25David Imel?

  Yeah, trademark, because X had made it clear that they didn't have any intention to use the Twitter name anymore.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 22:33David Imel?

  Right? X has now sued them, which they didn't need to do. They could have just filed a motion to cancel the trademark infringement, the trademark cancellation.

• 22:42Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm sorry, what's X? You keep saying X.

• 22:45David Imel?

  Okay, here's another problem. When I'm trying to Google something on the X platform, it's impossible. Cause you just write X in Google after and it, nothing comes up. Twitter doesn't come up.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  You're trying to search Twitter and you're using like Google.

• 22:56David Imel?

  SpaceX. Yeah, it doesn't do anything.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  If you do SpaceX.com, does that work?

• 23:01David Imel?

  You could probably do a site search.

• 23:02Andrew Manganelli?

  SpaceX is a different company.

• 23:06David Imel?

  Look what, look what happened!

• 23:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:08David Imel?

  It's bad.

• 23:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:09David Imel?

  Uh, anyway, they're suing, trying to stop them from doing this. They're arguing that as of December 14th, more than 4 million users came to X by typing in Twitter.com.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  That's really.

• 23:20Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm one of them.

• 23:20David Imel?

  I am one of them too.

• 23:21Speaker 01

  Everyone has all of them.

• 23:24Speaker 03

  This is so frustrating, because I wanna stick it to the man and call it Twitter, but I'm actually. Get you on the platform.

• 23:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, you want them to lose the.

• 23:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, I want them to get and I'm helping them not do that.

• 23:36David Imel?

  I mean, they were big about changing it to X. So, you know, commit, you know? This is such a weird thing because like if you, even if you like, if I own a trademark or whatever, and I stop using it, yeah, that doesn't mean people immediately sue me to cancel my ownership. If you have no intention to use it in the future, then they can file to cancel your ownership. Interesting. So it's up to them to determine if I intend to use it in the future or not.

• 24:01Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like the guy who got Lambo.com.

• 24:03David Imel?

  Actually, that's actually a lot like that. Yes.

• 24:07Andrew Manganelli?

  How long has it been called X?

• 24:10David Imel?

  I think since 2021, right?

• 24:12Speaker 03

  No, no, no, it was after I started working here.

• 24:14David Imel?

  2022?

• 24:15Speaker 03

  I think it was 2023.

• 24:16Andrew Manganelli?

  2023, yeah.

• 24:17David Imel?

  Oh, wow. Okay. Well, anyway, this Bluebird startup has this site called twitter.nu up right now, where you can sign up, you can reserve your handle in case they ever actually do get the Twitter name.

• 24:32Andrew Manganelli?

  That's brutal.

• 24:33David Imel?

  Right now, they don't have it. So it's kind of a if we do.

• 24:38David Imel?

  I just don't think that they're ever going to make it be able to be exactly like old Twitter was unless they literally copy the source code. And the reason that old Twitter was able to be old Twitter was because Jack Dorsey did not care about it making money. That's the only reason that it was the way it was for so long.

• 24:53Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know if he didn't care about it. He just wasn't good at it.

• 24:56David Imel?

  Well, he had like, no, I mean, he had like majority ownership and like, he didn't have to, he didn't have to like go by the whims of some investors, you know, to try to like enshitify it.

• 25:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, until he sold it.

• 25:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 25:08Andrew Manganelli?

  And then enshitified.

• 25:11David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I there, I will say that there will never be another OG Twitter. Like, that was an era that came and went. And now there are things that are trying to be it, and it's not going to happen again.

• 25:23Andrew Manganelli?

  It's not gonna happen.

• 25:24David Imel?

  And it's almost cringy that this new startup is trying to be the new Twitter. Like, I don't really think that's a good goal to have, but.

• 25:31Speaker 03

  I just got at Elon Musk on twitter.nu.

• 25:33David Imel?

  My God. I take it back. I take it back. You reserved it?

• 25:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:37David Imel?

  And it said, nobody had already reserved it?

• 25:39Speaker 03

  Nope.

• 25:39David Imel?

  That's insane.

• 25:40Andrew Manganelli?

  This is one of those things where the twitter.nu thing is it's like, I don't care. This is stupid. But it's really funny to watch X like squirm a bit and be like, no, no, just kidding. We do really want it.

• 25:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 25:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Even though we told everyone we don't.

• 25:54David Imel?

  I still use twitter.com to go to X.

• 25:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, yes, so do I. So.

• 25:58David Imel?

  Yeah, there's just too many, there's too many microchasms of the internet at this point and being able to have like one central social media site where things are happening is just not possible anymore.

• 26:09Speaker 03

  Isn't it, I think you mean microcosm.

• 26:11David Imel?

  I think you mean micro contrast.

• 26:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, they don't know that reference yet.

• 26:17David Imel?

  Oh yeah, that'll be next week. That's funny. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, I don't know, they're gonna try, but I kinda think that we're just gonna keep using the things we use. Which, which way do you think that they're gonna rule? What's your prediction? The ruling? Um, I think because twitter.com still links to x.com, they'll probably go, ah, well, seems like that's still in use. That might be enough. But I'm not a lawyer, so. This isn't legal advice. But I'm not a rapper. That's funny. All right, well, let's take a quick break. When we come back, we still got more to talk about, end of the year type news, but before we take a break.

• 26:47Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 26:49David Imel?

  Trivia time.

• 26:49Speaker 03

  Guys, let's get the energy up, come on!

• 26:52David Imel?

  It's 5pm.

• 26:52Speaker 03

  I know, it's 5:30, it's 6pm! We gotta, we gotta get hype. Before I do trivia, I just need to issue a correction from last week because last week I got mad and called out a, a company that sort of sounds like Bye Mommy for raising the price on my domain. And, this is really embarrassing, because a very nice fan wrote to me who runs a website called Domain Details, which posts helpful information and stuff about websites and whatnot, and he explained to me that it actually wasn't GoDaddy that raised the price, it was the registry, which is really embarrassing.

• 27:32David Imel?

  The Donuts Inc.

• 27:32Speaker 03

  Uh, I don't know who does Vin, Donuts is the big one, yeah, it's pretty embarrassing because we did like three hours of podcasts on how this all works and I still got it wrong. And if you wanna know what a domain registry is, you can go to domaindetails.com or listen to our two-part series on how the internet works.

• 27:50David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 27:51Speaker 03

  David and I and Adam go to Virginia.

• 27:54David Imel?

  We did. We shared two beds for three people.

• 27:57Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 27:58David Imel?

  And they did have an indoor pool.

• 27:59Speaker 03

  Watch the episode to find out.

• 28:01David Imel?

  It's really weird you all slept in the same bed.

• 28:03Speaker 03

  Two of us did, and if you wanna find out which two of us slept in the same bed, you'll have to go and listen to the episode.

• 28:08David Imel?

  Yeah, we had two beds for three people and we only used one. I mean, this is WayfromAfterDarks.

• 28:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's true. WayfromAfterDarks. Okay, guys.

• 28:16David Imel?

  Next we're gonna kiss in the Vision Pro.

• 28:23David Imel?

  Anyway, 6pm. What's the question?

• 28:27Speaker 03

  All of it. All of it's making it.

• 28:29David Imel?

  Come on, they love it.

• 28:32Speaker 03

  What three letters represent both a Chinese tech conglomerate and the initials of an American blues legend?

• 28:41Speaker 03

  I'm gonna write down what I think it is.

• 28:42David Imel?

  The blues legend, it's their initials?

• 28:45Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. It's the initials of their stage name, not their birth name. Hmm. I did not know that. Conglomerate?

• 28:53Speaker 03

  Or company?

• 28:58Speaker 03

  Is that gonna help it at all?

• 28:59David Imel?

  It would.

• 29:00Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 29:00David Imel?

  It would, cuz I know.

• 29:01Speaker 03

  Hmm. I feel like, I feel like if I tell you which one, I mean, I did already say. You said conglomerate. Yeah. So it's a conglomerate. You know, that kinda makes it a little easy.

• 29:09David Imel?

  Wow, but that's the question. That's just the question.

• 29:13Speaker 03

  We'll be right back after the break. What?

• 29:24Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Framer. If you want to create a website that looks great, feels handcrafted, and comes together fast and seamlessly, then look no further than Framer. It's a complete website platform, not just a builder, so teams can launch and keep improving their sites in one place. It helps creators, teams, and businesses ship production-ready websites faster than ever while getting every detail right. You're able to prompt, inspect, edit, and publish in one place at a whole new pace. On Framer, agents and humans work in tandem. Agents bring speed and scale, while people bring taste, judgment, and control. And that all takes place in the same workspace where the real site is designed and managed and reviewed and published. Those ideas land on the canvas, stay editable, and can be published when the team is ready. Framer is an enterprise-level solution.

• 30:09Speaker 01

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• 30:29Speaker 05

  Support for the show comes from Google Gemini. You know that moment when curiosity strikes? You're exploring a new city with the family and a sculpture catches your daughter's eye. What is that? Who made it? With Gemini, you can snap a picture and get a fully interactive breakdown of its history, architecture, and even hidden secrets. Gemini is built for moments like that. Whether you're learning something new, solving a problem, or looking for your next favorite thing, Google Gemini is here to help. Download Gemini, Google's AI app, or visit gemini.google.com to learn more.

• 31:08Speaker 06

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• 31:40David Imel?

  Oh, yeah. Waveform after dark.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  Whose voice is that?

• 31:50Andrew Manganelli?

  It's always Ellis's voice.

• 31:52David Imel?

  I like the, like, the tone at the end, like, dun. It's nice.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  Bravo.

• 31:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Is that the PS3 startup music?

• 32:02Speaker 01

  What do you think I'm doing in the audio room all day, man?

• 32:05David Imel?

  Making that.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  All right, so Instagram launched a new app.

• 32:09David Imel?

  Yeah, but only on Fire TV.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  It's for TV, but it's not Instagram TV.

• 32:13David Imel?

  Correct.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  It's for Fire TV.

• 32:14David Imel?

  Fire TV.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  So I'm assuming this just lets me doom scroll on my TV now?

• 32:18David Imel?

  Yes.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  Sick. I've been waiting for that.

• 32:23David Imel?

  But worse.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  You know what's crazy? I have the YouTube app on my Samsung TV at home and you can doom scroll shorts on it, and I've done it.

• 32:30David Imel?

  That's all.

• 32:31Speaker 03

  No, me too.

• 32:32David Imel?

  Wait.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Do you do, did you do it on purpose?

• 32:34David Imel?

  No. Well, I didn't enter the carousel on purpose, but once I entered the carousel, I was like, I wonder if I can, oh no.

• 32:39Speaker 03

  Hold on.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  And you're like.

• 32:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 32:42Speaker 03

  Yeah. YouTube, I have a feature idea. Let you rotate 90 degrees so you can lay down on the couch, use all of your landscape screen real estate, and doom scroll that way.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 32:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 32:55Speaker 01

  Really efficient.

• 32:56David Imel?

  So, new Instagram TV app. It's not the IGTV though. We might be too old for this, you might be too young for this if you're listening. But Instagram did launch a thing called IGTV before reels were a thing, um, that failed spectacularly. But it was also like you had to turn your phone sideways. It was around, it was around the Quibi days. If you know what that means.

• 33:17Speaker 03

  Remember when we asked the question?

• 33:19Speaker 01

  It was just vertical video.

• 33:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, people sometimes like me uploaded horizontal video on IGTV.

• 33:24David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  But remember when we used to ask the question, is this like a product or a feature?

• 33:28David Imel?

  Yes.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  In hindsight.

• 33:30David Imel?

  It was so obvious.

• 33:32Speaker 01

  That vertical video was just a feature of Instagram and they should have built it in.

• 33:36David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  But it really to them was so vastly different that it was an entirely separate product.

• 33:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Which is crazy.

• 33:41Speaker 03

  Am I crazy? Because you guys have talked about this.

• 33:45Speaker 03

  You guys have talked about this a few times and I feel like I'm having like a Mandela effect. Cause I only remember IGTV as being a button in the bottom of the Instagram app.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  They put a button in the Instagram app that launched the other app.

• 33:57Speaker 03

  That's what that button did?

• 33:58Speaker 01

  And it launched the IGTV app.

• 34:00Speaker 03

  I never pressed it.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  They, they eventually obviously moved it in to just be a section of Instagram, but there was probably a couple of months there where it was a whole separate thing.

• 34:07David Imel?

  Yeah, they had a crazy launch party for that too. It was a whole thing.

• 34:10Speaker 03

  The logo was kind of fire.

• 34:11David Imel?

  Yeah. Well, now, yeah, it kind of looks like, um, MTV.

• 34:16Speaker 03

  I had.

• 34:16David Imel?

  Oh, that's the other, that's the fake logo. Okay, so this app is currently only launching on Amazon Fire TV devices, which is a very, very niche collaboration.

• 34:29David Imel?

  Look, I think that short form videos is scourge on humanity and is melting our brains. However. Whoa. This is my like. Hey, subscribe to waveform shorts.

• 34:40David Imel?

  Yeah, well, well, you can't subscribe to the shorts. You can only. You can try. You can subscribe to clips, but that's not, that's not. We don't, we haven't done a short. That's not vertical. A year. Vertical short form. Well, that was embarrassing for me. Yeah, so however, and this is only like a 2% however, this is like, I still think this is bad. But, you know?

• 35:04David Imel?

  If you're watching it on TV, there's a much higher chance that you're watching it with somebody else. And I think that considering people send reels to each other so much because they want, like, we have a whole reels channel in Instagram where we just send it, it's a studio channel where we just send it to each other. Yeah. The social aspect of watching video together is very strong. And considering the content quality of many reels has gotten very high, I think having your friend, your partner, your dog on the couch with you, your cat, to watch your reels with you, there could be 2% value in that, you know? This social video watching experience. Yeah, yeah.

• 35:48Andrew Manganelli?

  You're saying Lane and I should sit on the couch and watch reels together?

• 35:52David Imel?

  I mean, there is obviously to an extent, people already do this with every other form of video, it's just adding short form, vertical video to the list of things that you can watch on your TV. I mean, which, if I'm gonna be forced to watch reels, I'd rather watch it on my TV with somebody than with, than on my phone. I was just gonna say, we're already forced to watch reels, so would you rather have this split off into its own IGTV app that has reels? Yes. Right? They'll never do that.

• 36:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, at this point, yeah, it's better for us because we're less likely to open it and therefore less likely to get addicted. And we can go over there intentionally when we want that brain rot and then we come back. But obviously that's the opposite of what they want. They want us to just stumble into short form video and just start scrolling.

• 36:32David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Which is hilarious because you used to just swipe over on Instagram and that would be your inbox. Now you swipe over, it's just reels.

• 36:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  Convenient.

• 36:42Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, if they swap them into separate apps, I would download Instagram again. But I undownload it because I was so tired of reels and like looking through it, so.

• 36:51David Imel?

  Does your brain feel better?

• 36:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Hell, yeah. For a lot of reasons.

• 36:55David Imel?

  Wrinklier.

• 36:58David Imel?

  Much wrinklier again.

• 36:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:00David Imel?

  Well, anyway.

• 37:02David Imel?

  OpenAI has also launched a new image generator model, which is best for enterprise use, they say. And I think the only reason that they're saying that is because they just did a $1 billion deal with Disney.

• 37:15David Imel?

  If you remember, we didn't talk about this last week, but OpenAI struck a $1 billion investment deal with Disney, where Disney now gets to use Sora very extensively. And there will be Disney characters in Sora. And I've already seen what some people are doing with it, and it's not good. It's pretty bad.

• 37:36Andrew Manganelli?

  The last thing I would want is my children's based animated characters to the heathens of the internet.

• 37:45David Imel?

  The reason that Disney said they want to do this is because they are going to add like short form generative video feeds to Disney Plus.

• 37:54David Imel?

  Which if you really want.

• 37:55Andrew Manganelli?

  What does that even mean?

• 37:56David Imel?

  If you really.

• 37:57Speaker 03

  They're gonna do the Sora app to Disney Plus?

• 37:59David Imel?

  They're gonna have like generated Disney videos on the Disney Plus app that are generated with Sora.

• 38:05Andrew Manganelli?

  User generated?

• 38:06David Imel?

  I don't think so. I think like by Disney people. Yeah, it's hor- it's really bad.

• 38:13Andrew Manganelli?

  So instead of hiring animators to do that, they're just gonna have Sora do it?

• 38:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:17Andrew Manganelli?

  They're a lean team over there.

• 38:18David Imel?

  They're a lean team over at Disney.

• 38:19Speaker 03

  Really weird. This is a company that's known for A, like bespoke making everything by hand, like with armies of artists and engineers and imagineers and animators. And B, suing the bejesus out of anyone who uses any of their IP.

• 38:35David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:36Speaker 03

  And now they've gone and done this?

• 38:39David Imel?

  Yeah, so I think that OpenAI needed to make the new image model to compete with Gemini, because Gemini 3's image model was really, really, really good. And that's the reason they did it. But the reason that they're saying it's best for enterprise use, I think, is just because they made this deal with Disney. And we also did not talk about this, but last week, the day after they announced the $1 billion investment deal with Disney, they also sued Google for massive copyright infringement on a massive scale.

• 39:06Speaker 03

  Oh, I thought it was the same day.

• 39:07David Imel?

  It was the day after. Basically, yeah, they're just trying to get everyone to pay them, you know, or to work with them in different ways.

• 39:16Speaker 03

  Disney pay, like, they're trying to get Google to receive a billion dollars? Like, what's the?

• 39:20David Imel?

  Well, to work with them in some way, I don't know. I think they're like, these companies are just going to steal our IP no matter. You can go on Gemini right now and just generate Disney characters. So I think that they're like, all these companies are stealing our IP no matter what. We should figure out a way for this to work for both of us, because otherwise, you know, it's just gonna happen. Yeah. Sorry to depress you on a Tuesday night, Wednesday night.

• 39:45Andrew Manganelli?

  This kind of stuff hits way worse at 6:00 PM.

• 39:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:49David Imel?

  Well, in more positive news, that happens in the morning. Nice. Google has launched a new CC feature in Labs.

• 40:03Speaker 03

  See, that's the kind of high-quality segues I'm looking for. Thank you.

• 40:06David Imel?

  You're welcome, Adam. And effectively, I think you would actually like this a lot, Marques. I'm on the waitlist. Oh, you're on the waitlist? Yeah. Well, you do like it a lot. It plugs into your calendar, your Gmail, and your Google Drive to basically give you a morning briefing of everything you've got going on during the day, things that you might want to schedule, that you might want to take a look at. It's basically a Gemini sort of butler assistant thing, but in your email. I have a theory about this that's going to be extremely niche and only apply to a few people. Do it.

• 40:38Speaker 01

  So for those of you who are like me, who every morning ask, hey, G, how's my day? Or what's my day like? And then Google Assistant goes through and does the normal routine of like, here's your A, here's your B, here's your commute, or whatever, whatever you put in for it to tell you, it does that. This is that. And I think when the teams that make these two separate products realize, like, they meet each other. When these teams meet each other on Google campus one day, they're going to combine them. And they will give me like an AI, like, good version of this at some point. But they have to meet first. So hopefully, one of them is watching this podcast and they realize that they exist.

• 41:16David Imel?

  It's almost like they have a video conferencing app that's called the exact thing.

• 41:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Starlink?

• 41:23Speaker 01

  Google Hangouts?

• 41:24David Imel?

  Meet. Yeah. Yeah, so I don't know. I mean, I'm curious how it might use like your Google Drive to let you know what you need to do that day. I can see the calendar making sense. I can see your email making sense. Google Drive seems strange, unless there's some enterprise Google Drive feature with like, due dates that I don't know about.

• 41:47Speaker 01

  Could be fun if it knows like which video script Google Doc I've been working on. And it's like, oh, you're gonna need a link to this doc today.

• 41:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  It'd be cool.

• 41:54David Imel?

  If it just like opened all the tabs you needed at once?

• 41:57Speaker 01

  That'd be fire.

• 41:57David Imel?

  That'd be fire.

• 41:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Starline is what I meant to say.

• 42:00David Imel?

  Oh.

• 42:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Cause I'm an idiot.

• 42:01David Imel?

  I was like, Starlink? I remember Starline.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Uh, so it is in beta right now in Google Labs and for Gemini Ultra and paid users in the US and Canada. I think Google's just trying to put Gemini in every little aspect of people's lives. Even people like, people who live in their email inbox, which is a lot of people.

• 42:23David Imel?

  It's me.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  Well, you also live in a, inside a camera.

• 42:27Andrew Manganelli?

  You also don't use Gmail.

• 42:29David Imel?

  I don't use gmail.com.

• 42:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 42:31David Imel?

  But I use Gmail.

• 42:33Speaker 04

  I thought you used superhuman.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Well, yeah.

• 42:35David Imel?

  Yes.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Which syncs Gmail.

• 42:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 42:37Speaker 04

  But I mean, like, well, you you wouldn't get this feature, would you?

• 42:42Speaker 01

  I think you'd get it as an email.

• 42:43David Imel?

  It arrives as an email.

• 42:44Speaker 04

  Oh, I thought it was like a pop up in the email app or something.

• 42:48Speaker 01

  I mean, ideally, it's it's reading all the emails or whatever from my account and then just shows up as another email.

• 42:52David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 42:54David Imel?

  What's interesting, if you want to talk to CC, you can email CC or you can reply to one of the emails that sends you and it'll send you an email back. So it's kind of like.

• 43:02Speaker 01

  And then it turns into a chatbot and then it's Gemini and then suddenly you're in the Gemini app.

• 43:05David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 43:07Speaker 04

  And now I'm confused. The the AI's name is CC or you you CC it in an email?

• 43:12David Imel?

  The product name is called CC as a play on words to the fact that it's through your email.

• 43:16Speaker 04

  OK, but you're not actually CC.

• 43:18David Imel?

  You're not carbon copying anything, yeah.

• 43:21Speaker 04

  I thought it was closed caption.

• 43:22David Imel?

  No.

• 43:23Speaker 04

  I thought it was the famous Yankees closing.

• 43:27Speaker 04

  He gets it.

• 43:28David Imel?

  I don't know what that is.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  Um.

• 43:30David Imel?

  F1 driver.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  Anyway.

• 43:33Speaker 01

  Speaking of things that are former.

• 43:36David Imel?

  Damn.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  You said former.

• 43:37David Imel?

  Yeah, that's sad.

• 43:39Speaker 01

  The Ford F-150 Lightning is discontinued.

• 43:43Speaker 04

  What?

• 43:44Speaker 01

  Isn't that crazy?

• 43:45David Imel?

  Only as we know it, though.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  As we know it. So the Ford F-150 Lightning was one of the original, like, competitor EVs to Tesla. Tesla's doing their thing for a while and then we got a couple of big, like, new EV competitors. There was like the Mach-E. There was, oh, what was the other? I'm going to remember them, actually. F-150 Lightning was the the pickup truck. And then Rivian R1T came along and Jaguar I-Pace. I remember this era. Every new EV got compared to the Tesla. F-150 was one of them where we went, ah, that's good. That's one of the things that Tesla doesn't have and that people are going to want. And they basically just made an F-150 with all the same benefits and accessories and every module would fit. It's just with an electric powertrain instead of gas.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  And it's okay. I see them on the road once.

• 44:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I see them sometimes.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  But it didn't sell to the rate that Ford was hoping that they would. And so despite their best efforts and their refreshes and their special matte black version that they brought to the studio here, not enough sales, so they're discontinuing it. That said, they are still going to continue to do like hybrid stuff with F-150 platform.

• 44:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  There's lots of versions of F-150, obviously, and they're going to do, I guess they're trying to do a version that drives on electric motors as the powertrain, but is fueled by a gas generator that fills battery and then powers the powertrain.

• 45:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  So it's more of like a Fisker type setup.

• 45:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Carro Rivero.

• 45:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. They said they can get up to 700 miles on that.

• 45:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I was confused by that because there's like no information, but 700 got thrown around in like every article that I saw. But I guess it's, I'm assuming there's still battery involved into it and the gasoline engine is a.

• 45:22Speaker 01

  Is a generator.

• 45:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Is a generator that's extending range in quick scenarios. Sounds like a really cool way to have two things to go wrong in your car, the gas engine.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  Well, that's what people say about hybrids. It's more complicated, but it is, you do have the upside of more range, so.

• 45:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I see it as a pickup truck, especially at F-150 range of, you know, the most popular vehicle in America. This is making way more sense.

• 45:46Speaker 01

  I mean, you get the torque of an electric car, which is great.

• 45:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Weird though, because is that, that torque's not always the same kind of torque they want when it comes to towing, right?

• 45:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know how this will do with towing. I'm not a towing expert, but I kind of feel like the F-150 Lightning was weak with towing and that was one reason why a lot of F-150 owners wouldn't have wanted it as much. But it was really good at a lot of other stuff, obviously not as much range when you're towing or in general.

• 46:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Grocery is tough to tow.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the thing is like, there's two types of F-150 owners. There's the ones that buy an F-150 because they need an F-150 and then there's the people who buy an F-150 just because that's what I want. Or that everyone else has a truck, I want a truck too, and it's a popular, here's the truck you get.

• 46:29Andrew Manganelli?

  I might have to help my friend move one day. Yeah, I had multiple people in my life that were excited for this truck just because of the giant battery that they could use in case like the power goes out in the house.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  That was a nice feature.

• 46:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 46:41Speaker 01

  That was a really nice feature.

• 46:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Everyone was excited about that.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, so power, vehicle to grid power is still like a sort of a niche feature that a couple of big battery EVs will do. I don't know. I'm gonna mess up the list if I try to name them, but there are a couple that also still do this where they can be your house's battery backup in a pinch. Pretty sick. It'll be like 150 kilowatt hours, lasts you for days. Uh, but yeah, now that this truck is discontinued, that's one less option. That's not really good for anyone.

• 47:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, agreed. Can I say, there's a quote from Jim Farley that I really dislike.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  CEO Ford.

• 47:12Andrew Manganelli?

  CEO of Ford.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  What did he say?

• 47:14Andrew Manganelli?

  This is a customer-driven shift to create a stronger, more resilient and more profitable Ford.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Is he implying that the customers are driving a more profitable Ford? Like, we want that?

• 47:23Andrew Manganelli?

  No, I think it's just, I don't care about any of you. We're gonna make as much profit, which, uh, every company ever, but just like.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  I'm trying to read into this because it's a CEO statement. Customer-driven shift implies people weren't buying the electric one, so this is customer-driven. You guys are doing this, uh, to create a stronger, more resilient and more profitable Ford. So the EVs were smaller margins and less profitable and what we're going to switch to and pivot to will be more profitable for Ford.

• 47:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Do we all care that Ford is more profitable?

• 47:55Speaker 01

  Well, it's the CEO. He's talking to shareholders. Yeah.

• 47:57Speaker 03

  And to be clear, customers were not driving the F-150 Lightning. But it was a great truck.

• 48:03Speaker 01

  Customer-driven truck. Uh, yeah.

• 48:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Companies don't care about you.

• 48:07Speaker 04

  So the EU also this week just announced like a plan to stop doing electric vehicles and stuff like that.

• 48:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, no, to stop the plan to, oh, stop gasoline.

• 48:19Speaker 01

  They removed their mandate for all new vehicle sales to be electric by, I believe, 2035.

• 48:26Speaker 04

  Thank you for putting into words my incoherent thought.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  I got you.

• 48:30Speaker 04

  But my question is, is this more of a trend now? Are we like reversing the whole EV thing?

• 48:36Andrew Manganelli?

  I think the bigger thing is, right now is we're losing or have lost the US EV tax credit.

• 48:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:43Andrew Manganelli?

  And I think that's, I think everybody understands that that is, for EVs in general, hurting sales pretty hard. It's interesting.

• 48:51Speaker 03

  Just to be clear, I don't think this has that much to do with the F-150 thing because it's really hard to buy an F-150 in Europe, period.

• 48:57Andrew Manganelli?

  I think he's just saying the trend, like we're seeing all these 2030 promises are probably just going to be that they were promises three or four years ago.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  If you're, if you're paying enough attention to this industry, there is definitely a trend. It's kind of like reading between the lines. I remember like we saw Porsche promise that the 718 Cayman was going to be EV in its next refresh. And then they kind of went, and also a gas one. And oh, I was expecting that to be fully electric. But like we see stuff like that happening. We see companies who are going, ah, we're gonna go, we're gonna have all these electric cars and we're gonna go fully electric by this year. And then quietly, they're just not doing it.

• 49:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  So customer driven, probably. And also just being realistic. Like I'm, I'm reading up on this, and by reading up, I mean, I Googled EU electric mandate and the AI overview has turned me, that the recent change removes the hard 2035 ban on new cars that are gas powered. But they are still allowing up to 10% of sales to be combustion engines. So it's like, instead of 100, it'll be 90. Just slowly walking it back to be more realistic and more in line with.

• 50:01Andrew Manganelli?

  10%?

• 50:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Versus zero.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  Over that. Yeah. So I, I agree that it's a trend. It's a slow iceberg movement type of trend where it doesn't look like a disaster, but it just feels like we're calibrating to what's realistic.

• 50:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Hmm.

• 50:16Speaker 01

  And customer trends. And profit.

• 50:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, yeah, but the realism is based on company profits.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  Profit. Well, if you're not, if nobody's buying EVs and the, the government incentives go away and, and sales drop, it's like, you can't make people buy EVs if they don't want them.

• 50:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, that's why we were incentivizing people to buy EVs.

• 50:34Speaker 01

  We're incentivizing them because they're more expensive, uh, per car.

• 50:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  So it's like, if I want someone to choose the EV, it needs to be the correct choice for them. They don't get to just force people into buying EVs. So if it was, oh, $7,000 less, well, now it makes it a better buy. I'm gonna choose the EV. But now that that incentive goes away, in this specific case in the US, it's like. Now the gas car is a better buy. I'm gonna buy the gas car in the hybrid and Toyota's sitting there going, yes, more Prius buyers for us.

• 50:59David Imel?

  It's true.

• 51:00Speaker 01

  So, yeah.

• 51:01David Imel?

  That's true.

• 51:01Speaker 01

  That's just how.

• 51:01David Imel?

  Toyota's sitting in the middle ground forever with the Prius was probably their best call. Cause they just knew that no one was ever gonna like fully switch one way or the other.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  They're hybrid kings.

• 51:11David Imel?

  They are.

• 51:11Andrew Manganelli?

  I'll throw one more thing out there.

• 51:13David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 51:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Because I already can feel all the truck people yelling at me. I figured, why not have all the Tesla people yelling at me also?

• 51:19David Imel?

  Let's go. All in.

• 51:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Even though the F-150 Lightning literally is a car that Ford says this isn't worth producing anymore and still outsold the Cybertruck in 2025?

• 51:28David Imel?

  Woo.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. Have you tried version 14, Andrew? Have you tried version 14, bro?

• 51:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's funny that like Tesla sells, well Tesla only has-

• 51:40Andrew Manganelli?

  There's a lot of nuance to that and I don't care.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, the joke is funny. They have four or five models. Ford F-150 is the most popular vehicle in America. So the fact that one of the trims didn't sell well and got discontinued is kind of not huge news.

• 51:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 51:55Speaker 01

  But it is what it is. Um, speaking of EV trucks, so easy.

• 51:59David Imel?

  There we go.

• 51:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Cause I wrote it in the outline.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  Oh, you did? I didn't even see that. I saw Rivian in bold and I was like, I got this.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  But yes, speaking of EV trucks, Rivian had an event this past week and it was really interesting because I couldn't tell who the event was for. The first part of it was this really engaging and interesting like AI chat from RJ, who's a CEO, talking about how they're going to be making their own silicon and their generation three platform of vehicles is going to be fully self-driving on millions of miles of roads. And I was like, whoa, that's really interesting. But this is also their autonomy day event. So then it transferred into this really, really long, very detailed and honestly complex, but explanations of how they're doing these things and the neural nets and the advantages of their approach, mixing in lidar with radar with cameras, why they believe this is the right solution

• 52:49Speaker 01

  for the future. And it feels like they were talking to shareholders, engineers types.

• 52:56David Imel?

  You know who they were talking to.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and the comments section was people watching a live stream on twitter.com or YouTube. So it was like people who are terminally online and maybe a little bit too in the bubble. And they were like, this isn't close to what Tesla's doing. And then they had hands-on after, which was allowing people to ride in these new self-driving Rivians. And so there's some footage online of these rides and some of them look okay, some of them look like they had some errors and misses, which is normal. They didn't do like a closed course thing. So there's a lot going on. My takeaway, which is very much just from my own perspective, because I own a generation one Rivian,

• 53:36Speaker 01

  was I'm glad I didn't buy a gen two Rivian because none of those are going to get the new silicon. It's the gen three, which is basically R2.

• 53:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, so they announced new silicon? Sorry.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, you kind of have to be in the lingo. Rivian has R1, which is the first generation of their vehicles. And then they have R2, which is the SUV, like second generation thing. And then they have R3, which is even smaller. But they also have generation one, which is Rivian R1T and R1S. And then generation two, which is also Rivian R1S and R1T.

• 54:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  And then generation three, which is R2.

• 54:17Andrew Manganelli?

  And presumably there'll be an R1 gen three.

• 54:19Speaker 01

  And R3. And probably, probably an R1 gen three. And R3 will be gen three. So the takeaway here is R2 is the first gen three vehicle that will have the silicon in it, that will have all the full self-driving that they're talking about, all these new capabilities. It'll have LiDAR up at the top and they talked about how smoothly integrated that LiDAR box is. And the gen two vehicles now that are like a slight update to my gen one R1, are not going to get all of that. Dang, sad for those people. Yeah, they might get some of that, but they won't have the silicon, obviously. They're already shipping. Anyway. Yeah. It's interesting. They're promising a lot. It's kind of hard to take all their word for it because we see these types of events.

• 54:59Andrew Manganelli?

  They promised.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, they promised a lot.

• 55:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Really Tesla-y.

• 55:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I, you know, I feel like that's a combo of like, maybe a little bit of fundraising and talking to the public about like, oh yeah, we are super AI first and self-driving and all that stuff. And then people who invest and have lots of money to give Rivian might go, huh, seems about right. And be more down, whatever. I don't think it's going to sell them any R1s though, because it doesn't have the stuff that they're talking about. To Tesla's credit.

• 55:28David Imel?

  Them going all in on the cameras, it was like now for their customers, their customers get to, you know, theoretically use more of the self-driving features as they get updated because all of the Teslas for a very long time have cameras.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:46David Imel?

  And so they're not going to need like new sensors and stuff. There's like,

• 55:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:50David Imel?

  They've switched out the the boxes.

• 55:52Speaker 01

  They've changed the sensors, the cameras.

• 55:54David Imel?

  Yeah, but they're not, there's no like hard limit on like your Model 3 can do it.

• 55:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, there is.

• 55:59David Imel?

  No, I think there is. I think it's like a joke. Right, but haven't they not updated the hardware versions in like a while?

• 56:05Speaker 01

  There was at least one statement on stage that Elon sort of skirted around. He'd said, "Oh yeah, all Model 3s are going to have full self-driving." And then you hear someone in the crowd go like, "What about Hardware 3?" And he kind of just goes, "Let's not pay attention to nuance." Like, he literally says like, "Let's not get nuanced."

• 56:22David Imel?

  Ah.

• 56:23Speaker 01

  Because he knows that this is for a certain X date and forward version of Tesla. And it's not actually all Model 3s that are going to get all these features.

• 56:31David Imel?

  Got it.

• 56:31Speaker 01

  But if you just kind of avoid nuance, it seems like a nice thing to say.

• 56:34David Imel?

  Hmm.

• 56:35Speaker 01

  Um, so I don't know if there's a lawsuit about that, but it's like, the same thing is going to happen with everyone who has updated hardware in their cars. They build new capabilities around the updated hardware. And so everyone who's on previous gens, like me, a first gen Rivian buyer who spent tons of money on a truck to support this early thing, I'm not getting any of these features. So, oh well.

• 56:53David Imel?

  Too bad they can't just like update the box.

• 56:55Andrew Manganelli?

  What features did they announce, though?

• 56:57Speaker 01

  So Rivian's main thing was their current, uh, driver assist feature. I'm not going to try to name them because they all have different pilot auto type names or whatever, but the current driver assist feature is something like 100,000, uh, fully lined highways.

• 57:12Andrew Manganelli?

  135,000 miles of roads. That is getting updated to 3.5 million miles of roads. I think the quote, the one guy said later was, "If it has clearly marked painted lines, you can drive on it," to which every comment I saw from that is like, "Well, where I live, does [bleep] have that?" So like, I'm not coming to work. Yeah.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  There's a lot more roads in the US, but it's like the current driver assist that I try to use doesn't work on neighborhood streets, doesn't work on lots of regular roads that you think it should work on. It works okay on a lot of highways, but it's like just a regular road with lines on it, it wouldn't work. So this theoretically multiplies by several orders of magnitude how many roads it can drive hands-free on. Whether you choose to use that or not, or if you were planning on using it for everything, there's still a long way to go for them, but.

• 57:59Andrew Manganelli?

  And then the next, the next level of things they're doing for the Gen, Gen 3.

• 58:06Speaker 01

  Gen Sun Wong, that's a different company.

• 58:10Andrew Manganelli?

  But yeah, in 2026, they're claiming point to point. So like, put it address to address and I'll drive you the whole way. And then Gen 3 architecture is eyes off. So he's claiming you can like read a book and do stuff like that. And then after that would be personal level four. This is the level of promising where I was like, I don't like this. This is way too much. That's also just out of Rivian's hands for quite a bit of it in terms of regulations.

• 58:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:35Andrew Manganelli?

  And that's a lot to promise.

• 58:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:37Andrew Manganelli?

  There are laws. My question is, if you're doing eyes off, but you also can only do it on marked roads. If you are eyes off and it, GPS doesn't know the road has lines or not, and you get to a unlined road. What happens?

• 58:53Speaker 01

  It'll just beep at you.

• 58:54Speaker 04

  It beeps at you and says, take over.

• 58:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. Cause it, it's probably not like you can sit in the backseat.

• 58:59Andrew Manganelli?

  No, no, you can't beep in the back. But like, if you're reading a book, like he said, and in a split sec, if you're going 60 and now the road doesn't have lines on it anymore, what is your ditching the book and grabbing the wheel?

• 59:11Speaker 04

  Doesn't Tesla just like slow down?

• 59:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Does it slow?

• 59:14Speaker 01

  It slowly slows down until it basically.

• 59:16Speaker 04

  Does it pull over?

• 59:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay. That sounds unsafe for other people driving on the road. They just have a car.

• 59:20Speaker 01

  Better than barreling down a road that you don't.

• 59:22Andrew Manganelli?

  And so that's also true. Hey, listen, I'm not the one who made the problem here.

• 59:27Speaker 01

  What happens? It accelerates, goes even faster. I think one of the most interesting battlegrounds on the internet, which has been hilarious, and this may just be comment farming, but I think it's hilarious, is the LiDAR versus no LiDAR battle in, in the self-driving world. And really it's just people who listen to what Tesla slash Elon says, which is LiDAR is stupid. You don't need it. Or what a lot of others like Jaguar with the i-Pace and Waymo and obviously with Rivian now are doing, which is adding LiDAR to the suite of sensors to help augment the downsides of vision only. Right. And the argument is like, vision only can do a lot if your systems are really good, if your AI is really good.

• 1:00:09Speaker 01

  But there's this really, really, really, really, really long tail of edge cases Yeah. of things that are kind of weird to solve for with vision. Fog. Fog and rain and all that other stuff, but also just weird stuff that happens on the road. And LiDAR can see further and has obviously a better long distance vision than just the cameras. And so I guess what RJ was saying on stage with Rivian's event is LiDAR has come down enough in price that this is not prohibitively expensive. We're going to do this. We're going to map, build this into all of our data. And so the camps are people who say, this is doomed. You're just adding noise to your neural nets. Or this is actually better than not having it. Of course you should add it. They fight a lot on Twitter.

• 1:00:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Marquez, people have been driving cars for millions of years without LiDAR in their eyes. I don't know what you need LiDAR for.

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  Well, that goes to my like humanoid robot argument too, which is people going that robots should be human shaped. And like, you just inherited all of the blind spots and all of the downsides of humans, including drivers. Of course, human drivers are worse than robot drivers. We have no eyes in the back of our head.

• 1:01:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you know what the best part of this episode is?

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:01:15Andrew Manganelli?

  We get to leave for two weeks and not read any of the comments because it's going to be a brutal one.

• 1:01:21Speaker 03

  Can some machine learning engineer please explain to me why all the AI companies were like, no, we need to steal everything because the more information we have to give to the models, the smarter they're going to be. And that somehow doesn't apply to cars. Like, like, oh no, that's too much information. Get the LiDAR out of here. No radar. Just, just cameras. That's too much. It's like, how does that make any goddamn sense?

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  Well, they are, to be fair, they are working on ways to not just feed more data to the language models. Like, they're, they're working on ways around that.

• 1:01:52Andrew Manganelli?

  After they stole everything?

• 1:01:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  After they stole everything.

• 1:01:56Andrew Manganelli?

  One other thing they did announce, Rivian Assistant.

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  This is interesting.

• 1:02:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Which was kind of like, yeah, exactly what you imagine is your own in-car assistant. But one thing I thought that was interesting is RJ shows a way that you can, like, obviously, you can do vehicular commands in terms of with your car. That definitely sounds like

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:15Andrew Manganelli?

  breaking a law, like a charge.

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  Manslaughter.

• 1:02:18Andrew Manganelli?

  But, uh, you

• 1:02:19Speaker 01

  You said vehicular commands.

• 1:02:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  Like, turn on my heated seat.

• 1:02:22Andrew Manganelli?

  I didn't say that out loud.

• 1:02:26Andrew Manganelli?

  But it also, like, it could make changes to Google Calendar and Google Things, which, if you're partnering with Google somehow or connecting with Google, give me Android Auto. You can do it, coward. Just do it. It makes no sense to not do it.

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  Wait, I'm trying to think, okay, what their logic would be. Like, if I asked them right now, what would they say? Because their logic, okay, I use Rivian software. Rivian gets all the data about how I use the car. If I have Android Auto, I will just use that. And so I won't put all my navigation data or anything else like that into Rivian's system. So Rivian's system can't learn and get better. So what they do is they plug in certain parts of Google's ecosystem so that I keep using Rivian's software, but that I can still interact with Google's services. That's probably what they would say.

• 1:03:13Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't [bleep] care.

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  But yeah, I, I will definitely use it to do things in the car, and I will definitely not use it to change my calendar. I do not trust that. Do you trust that? Would you ask your car to change your calendar?

• 1:03:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Absolutely not.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  I feel like I wouldn't trust that.

• 1:03:29Andrew Manganelli?

  No, no way.

• 1:03:30David Imel?

  I like having my calendar in my car.

• 1:03:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, but on, like, something I can see and, like, do with my hands. I guess theoretically Big touchscreen. Theoretically, it's self-driving. Yeah, is it gonna show me my calendar?

• 1:03:39Andrew Manganelli?

  We're just old.

• 1:03:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:40Andrew Manganelli?

  I need to physically see myself moving it. I don't know if I would trust, like, some automated system to do it just for me time.

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  I don't even trust Google Assistant to do that.

• 1:03:48David Imel?

  The automated system, no. But if it showed, like, a little calendar widget on your screen.

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  And then I could see the box move?

• 1:03:54David Imel?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:03:54Speaker 01

  I guess I'd trust it then.

• 1:03:55David Imel?

  Yeah. I'm a very visual learner, I guess.

• 1:03:57Speaker 03

  I don't want my car to have any thoughts. I don't want my car to have to think about where to turn. I don't want my car to have to think about my calendar. I don't want my car to think at all.

• 1:04:05David Imel?

  It's just APIs.

• 1:04:06Speaker 03

  I want it to go pedal down and go, go forward. I want car to go. I want car to go, go and beep beep. And that's, that's like good enough for me.

• 1:04:14Andrew Manganelli?

  No brakes, just horn.

• 1:04:15David Imel?

  Oh, yes.

• 1:04:18Andrew Manganelli?

  I think we need, I think we need an ad break. Much trivia.

• 1:04:22David Imel?

  I'm really, wait, I'm really curious what's the last. No, it's okay. This is the, this is a trivia question.

• 1:04:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:04:26David Imel?

  I'm just really curious what the last trivia question of the year is gonna be better be good.

• 1:04:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, I really wanna get it. Don't you wanna know? Alright, so this is a bit of a teaser for this next segment coming up.

• 1:04:37David Imel?

  Oh.

• 1:04:37Andrew Manganelli?

  But.

• 1:04:40Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm looking at Ellis as I say this. Question number two of this episode, last one of the year. What is the Scoville rating of the bomb?

• 1:04:51David Imel?

  Closest without, closest without going over.

• 1:04:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 1:04:55David Imel?

  Scoville.

• 1:04:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:57Andrew Manganelli?

  I think we should just do Delta. We've all watched, we've all watched Hot Ones enough.

• 1:05:01David Imel?

  I have not.

• 1:05:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Everyone but David has watched Hot Ones enough that we should all know this.

• 1:05:06David Imel?

  I watched was the one where, uh, what's his name? Like gives up.

• 1:05:10Andrew Manganelli?

  You better be careful.

• 1:05:10Speaker 03

  David is right there.

• 1:05:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Mark Kess has been on it twice.

• 1:05:14David Imel?

  I think I watched that one. Wait, twice? I watched one. I didn't know you went on again.

• 1:05:20Andrew Manganelli?

  David, just leave, just leave.

• 1:05:21David Imel?

  Unbelievable. I talked so much about you on that episode. That's crazy.

• 1:05:28Andrew Manganelli?

  He was like, my good friend David.

• 1:05:30David Imel?

  There was a whole section where Sean is like, I heard you're friends with David.

• 1:05:34David Imel?

  It was, you should totally watch it, dude. It was so good.

• 1:05:36Speaker 03

  Alright, that's cool. I'll keep it up.

• 1:05:37David Imel?

  Anyway.

• 1:05:38Speaker 03

  I'll keep it up on my, one of my three screens.

• 1:05:41David Imel?

  Well, we'll think about this one. Answers will be at the end like usual. We'll be right back.

• 1:05:53Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. So AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from. But when that context is scattered across tools like threads and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying kind of blind. That's the problem Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all of these pieces together from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more. So nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com.

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  That's J-I-R-A dot com.

• 1:06:41Speaker 06

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• 1:07:11Speaker 07

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• 1:07:44Speaker 03

  After dark.

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  Aw, yeah.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  And we're back. I was petting Zuri. She's just sitting right here next to me. My shirt's back on now. So 2025, how do we end the last episode of this calendar year of our regularly scheduled programming? How should we end this?

• 1:08:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, Adam was nice enough to go back and look at all the predictions we made at the start of the year and kind of has a little recap going on, too. So I think we just jumped straight into what we predicted.

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  Is this waveform wrapped?

• 1:08:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Kind of. Kind of, sort of.

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  I hope I got everything right.

• 1:08:20Andrew Manganelli?

  You didn't.

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  All right.

• 1:08:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you want to go through these, Adam? You wrote them all down.

• 1:08:29Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah, sure.

• 1:08:29Andrew Manganelli?

  We'll just react to them, yeah.

• 1:08:30Speaker 04

  Also, quick note, this is the last regularly scheduled program of this year. We will have a bonus episode next week at the time of you listening to this. So if you're traveling for the holidays, yeah, next Tuesday, there will be an episode.

• 1:08:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 1:08:43Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:08:44Andrew Manganelli?

  The 23rd.

• 1:08:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, 23rd. Random 2025 predictions. The first one was, will the S25 have Qi2 wireless charging? David said yes.

• 1:08:56Speaker 01

  Qi2, meaning with the magnets?

• 1:08:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, with the magnets.

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  With the magnets?

• 1:08:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Because I was Qi2 as we knew it.

• 1:09:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, as we knew it then.

• 1:09:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, wait, okay.

• 1:09:07Speaker 03

  Qi2 got it, I was like, five times, and they kept changing the spec.

• 1:09:12Andrew Manganelli?

  They're like, Qi2 ready.

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  As we predicted.

• 1:09:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Qi2 ready. Andrew also said yes. Marquez said no. I said no. Ellis said yes.

• 1:09:20Speaker 01

  So I got that right.

• 1:09:21Andrew Manganelli?

  So Marquez and I got it correct.

• 1:09:22Speaker 01

  Whatever. The only phones that had Qi2 were just the Pixel and the iPhone?

• 1:09:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Speaking of Pixel, that was the next one. Marquez.

• 1:09:30Speaker 03

  Was it only the Pixel?

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  Pixel Snap?

• 1:09:32Andrew Manganelli?

  And the Skyline.

• 1:09:33Speaker 03

  HMD Skyline.

• 1:09:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, whatever.

• 1:09:35Speaker 04

  Well, yeah.

• 1:09:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Marquez, you said that 2025 would be the year of the Pixel 10.

• 1:09:41Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:09:43Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 1:09:44Speaker 04

  How do you feel about that? Did you shut me down last week with my hot take?

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  I remember what I was thinking when I said that and it had a lot to do with tensor and that did not happen.

• 1:09:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:09:55Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 1:09:55Speaker 04

  You were saying that this year it would take a big leap and then next year in the in the 11, we would get a big visual refresh. I don't know why I have that much faith.

• 1:10:03Speaker 01

  That might be true.

• 1:10:03Speaker 04

  Because it's 10. Yeah, I mean, this would have been a great year to do it.

• 1:10:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:09Speaker 04

  Well, that was the question, David. You said because it's the 10, do you think they're gonna do something big? And Marques is like, nah. But. Oh, wait, he said nah or he said yeah? He said it wouldn't. They wouldn't do anything big to the hardware. It would be the same hardware and tensor is gonna be a huge leap and it's gonna be the year of the Pixel 10.

• 1:10:25Speaker 01

  Should have been. It ended up being that Pixel Snap was a bigger deal than any of the rest of the stuff.

• 1:10:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. It's true.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  It's true.

• 1:10:32Speaker 04

  Unfortunately. We like Pixel Snap.

• 1:10:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's called tensor, right? And then it's the 10th. It's Pixel 10. Come on, guys.

• 1:10:39Speaker 04

  Tensor with the 10.

• 1:10:40Speaker 03

  How many hot dogs would you like?

• 1:10:41Speaker 01

  Tensor. Exactly. Like, how many?

• 1:10:45Speaker 04

  It's always hot dogs.

• 1:10:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, so it's hot dogs.

• 1:10:49Speaker 04

  Okay, then we had our hot takes predictions.

• 1:10:52Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:10:53Speaker 04

  Which, all right, mine, I'm just gonna get it out the window so you can all laugh at me.

• 1:10:57Speaker 01

  We only had two predictions?

• 1:10:58Speaker 04

  Well, no, that was the. Those are just like random ones that he. We had a bunch that episode, but those were the ones I felt like were worth.

• 1:11:04Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:11:05Speaker 04

  What are you talking about?

• 1:11:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:06Speaker 04

  Uh, random hot take predictions. Mine was that someone will get the AI wearable right this year.

• 1:11:13Speaker 01

  How do you feel about that one?

• 1:11:14Speaker 04

  The Pebble. The what? It's not out yet.

• 1:11:17Speaker 01

  It's not AI.

• 1:11:17Speaker 04

  It's not AI.

• 1:11:19Speaker 03

  When does anything ever come out anymore? Okay, like, come on.

• 1:11:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, I don't feel great about that one, but it's in 2026. I don't know, Marques had like three different AI wearables on the testing desk. That's just cool.

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  I do.

• 1:11:30Speaker 04

  Does?

• 1:11:30Speaker 01

  No, I might have to open those because I don't. I cannot confirm or deny this about the Pocket one that I got or the Friend one that I got. I gotta try those things out.

• 1:11:37Speaker 04

  I can confirm they did not get it right.

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  I've seen.

• 1:11:40Speaker 04

  Friend definitely did not get it.

• 1:11:41Speaker 01

  I've seen those Subway ads.

• 1:11:43David Imel?

  Subway ads?

• 1:11:46Speaker 04

  It was like everywhere on the subway.

• 1:11:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Which one?

• 1:11:49David Imel?

  Friend.

• 1:11:49Speaker 04

  Friend.

• 1:11:50David Imel?

  They booked out the entire New York subway.

• 1:11:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Did they spend any money on the hardware or just a website domain and subway?

• 1:11:56David Imel?

  It's the size of an, it's just a air tag.

• 1:11:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:11:58David Imel?

  That's all it is.

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  Kind of looks like it.

• 1:12:00David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:00Speaker 03

  Did they got out of business yet?

• 1:12:01Andrew Manganelli?

  No. No, he was whining on Twitter the other day, though.

• 1:12:04Speaker 04

  I mean, turns out when you're just like a chat GPT rapper, you don't have to spend a lot of money.

• 1:12:07Andrew Manganelli?

  That was the tweet I saw.

• 1:12:08Speaker 04

  Really?

• 1:12:10David Imel?

  Hey, 20% of the people on this podcast are paying customers. That chat GPT.

• 1:12:13Andrew Manganelli?

  For friend?

• 1:12:14David Imel?

  Friend.

• 1:12:15Andrew Manganelli?

  You bought the?

• 1:12:15David Imel?

  You, you pay for it?

• 1:12:16Andrew Manganelli?

  You can buy the friend?

• 1:12:17David Imel?

  Yeah. You pay for it.

• 1:12:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Sitting on my desk.

• 1:12:20David Imel?

  And you're paying for this?

• 1:12:21Andrew Manganelli?

  You know what's funny? I don't think that's, I don't think that's a different AI necklace, I'm pretty sure.

• 1:12:27David Imel?

  Oh, the one that I have?

• 1:12:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:28David Imel?

  Whoops.

• 1:12:30David Imel?

  There's another one that kind of looks like the, oh, God. All right, well, I'll, I'll test them all later.

• 1:12:34Speaker 01

  That just shows that Adam was especially wrong.

• 1:12:37Andrew Manganelli?

  I want to confirm that, but I'm pretty sure it's something else.

• 1:12:39David Imel?

  I'll go back and find that. I cannot confirm or deny.

• 1:12:41Speaker 04

  Well, the next one was Andrew's. Rabbit will survive and release the Rabbit R2.

• 1:12:46Andrew Manganelli?

  I was close.

• 1:12:47Speaker 04

  You're close.

• 1:12:48David Imel?

  They tease survive.

• 1:12:50Speaker 04

  They are not out of business yet.

• 1:12:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, yeah, because they didn't have to pay any of their employees.

• 1:12:54David Imel?

  If they haven't paid any of their employees, are they still tactically?

• 1:12:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Still alive and teased, teased a new one.

• 1:13:00Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 1:13:02David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:13:02Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 1:13:04David Imel?

  Are we gonna?

• 1:13:04Andrew Manganelli?

  I got closer than that.

• 1:13:05David Imel?

  Another CES where a bunch of influencers like talk about how cool it is and it ends up being

• 1:13:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Can they afford a plane ticket to CES?

• 1:13:12David Imel?

  They'll get flown out there.

• 1:13:13Speaker 04

  Ooh, fighting words, Andrew. David, you said.

• 1:13:17David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:17Speaker 04

  This is, this is a little crazy. You said, I think humane gets sold in 2025.

• 1:13:22David Imel?

  Correct.

• 1:13:22Speaker 04

  Correct. But you also said probably not to HP.

• 1:13:27Andrew Manganelli?

  No way.

• 1:13:28Speaker 04

  How did you do that?

• 1:13:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Did he really say that?

• 1:13:32Speaker 04

  It did seem a little obvious because like HP humane pin, you know, a little on the nose.

• 1:13:36David Imel?

  Thank you, Alice.

• 1:13:37Speaker 01

  Did I say that?

• 1:13:38Speaker 04

  You did. I think it was because it was around the time that rumors first started popping up. It hadn't happened yet, but it was like around the time that there were rumors.

• 1:13:45David Imel?

  I think, I think I was just thinking, that would just be, that would be too funny. It would be too depressing and funny.

• 1:13:51Speaker 04

  Wow. Andrew also asked if one of it inevitably sold, if it would be more or less than Juan Soto's contract.

• 1:13:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Not even close.

• 1:13:58Speaker 04

  Player of the Mets, which was $765 million. They sold for about 116 million. So not close.

• 1:14:05David Imel?

  That's still too much.

• 1:14:06Speaker 04

  Although his contract was for 15 years, so, you know, they made that in like, what, three?

• 1:14:09David Imel?

  Are they making the AI for the printers better over there?

• 1:14:12Speaker 04

  Do you have an HP printer?

• 1:14:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, what's going on over there at HP? Why, who? They're just printing money. HP decided to buy Humane. I have so many questions. Yeah, I know, right? That are not yet answered about that. It's probably the, they did invent some sort of projector technology.

• 1:14:28Speaker 04

  Hey, printer.

• 1:14:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Hey, printer, connect to Wi-Fi again, please, for the love of God.

• 1:14:32Speaker 01

  HP makes laptops still. Dragonfly. Yeah.

• 1:14:36Speaker 04

  They make a lot of them.

• 1:14:36Speaker 01

  They make Chromebooks.

• 1:14:37Speaker 04

  Uh, the next hot take was Marquez. You said, "The browser wars are back."

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  True. I got that right. Yep. I think you were correct. But there are so many browsers. Useless.

• 1:14:47Andrew Manganelli?

  He also didn't expect the main browser war to be the company killing their own browser and starting another one and causing a giant rift between their families.

• 1:14:56Speaker 01

  We got side plots, we got name plots, we got ChatGPT threatening Google, threatening, we got a whole bunch. Threatening. Well, existing enough for a little code red action. I feel like that's kind of interesting. Oh, I thought you meant like Atlas. No. The Atlas browser. Well, I mean, that's one of the things. Yeah, the browser wars are back.

• 1:15:11Andrew Manganelli?

  I thought you meant they sent a threat to the other.

• 1:15:14Speaker 01

  I wouldn't be shocked if they also. Yeah. A little lunch with Sundar. And that's it.

• 1:15:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's, oh, wait, no, there's one more. Ellis, you said last year that Microsoft will not be adding live translation to any of their products in 2025.

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 1:15:29Speaker 04

  You also said that if they do, you will sit at the big table and apologize while eating the bomb.

• 1:15:35Speaker 01

  The bomb.

• 1:15:35Speaker 04

  Sorry.

• 1:15:36Speaker 01

  The bomb. Interesting. Did Microsoft technically add it?

• 1:15:39Speaker 04

  Did Microsoft?

• 1:15:40Speaker 01

  Teams.

• 1:15:41Speaker 04

  Team, but did they really?

• 1:15:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Interpreter mode. Well, I don't, I haven't heard anything about, we've joked about the live translation thing all year.

• 1:15:49Speaker 04

  Thing where like, I'm pretty sure I'm wrong. Like, even if I did just say Microsoft, like, my whole thing was like, this is, this is not real. And as, the reason I say I'm pretty sure I'm, I'm wrong is because.

• 1:16:04Speaker 03

  Like earlier, we're talking about this and I was like, yeah, because now the Pixel buds and the AirPods both have live translation and everyone was like, but, but do they? And I was like, no, they, they do, right? Who's used it? And no one in the office had used it. Yeah. And it's still like. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

• 1:16:21Andrew Manganelli?

  No, I agree. I feel like it got added to everything and I haven't heard a peep about any of it.

• 1:16:27Speaker 03

  But now I. The Pixel has it for phone calls. Now.

• 1:16:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Have you heard a single person?

• 1:16:32Speaker 03

  That doesn't mean it doesn't work.

• 1:16:33Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm just saying, yeah, yeah.

• 1:16:34Speaker 03

  I use it.

• 1:16:34Andrew Manganelli?

  I just thought if it would be like real, like life changing, we would have heard about it a little more.

• 1:16:39Speaker 03

  Anyway, this is all to say. Well, how much do you speak a different language?

• 1:16:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, we don't, we don't use it. But that doesn't mean it's not good for people who do speak another language. Like I use it, I remember when the Pixel came out, everyone was trying this demo in all of our first hands on in our reviews and they literally would call us and have someone in another room speak another language to us and we would hear the translation in English. We'd speak back, it would translate and it would work. And I haven't used it since then because I don't need to make phone calls to people who I don't speak to in different languages.

• 1:17:04Andrew Manganelli?

  But it works.

• 1:17:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:06Speaker 03

  I am a man of my word. After we finish the next part of waveform wrapped, I will take a seat at the big table. I will issue my apology. Stick around. And I will, I will debomb.

• 1:17:17Andrew Manganelli?

  You should do the readout with, you should do the bomb and then do the readout.

• 1:17:21Speaker 03

  But you gotta let simmer for. I was gonna do the bomb and then read you guys a trivia question.

• 1:17:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, yeah, I like that better, yeah.

• 1:17:27Speaker 03

  Because, uh, man, that waiting music is gonna feel a little long. Are you gonna do a spoonful? I don't know. I think a dab is plenty. I'm gonna do a dab. I also, it's dinner time and I haven't eaten, so I'm probably gonna like put it on. This is bad. A Pringle? We do have milk in the office. Can you scar your stomach?

• 1:17:47Speaker 01

  No, it's just gonna.

• 1:17:47Speaker 03

  That's called an ulcer. Yeah.

• 1:17:48Speaker 01

  Sit there for a while until you cover it with other food.

• 1:17:51Speaker 03

  No, we're gonna, yeah, so. I did hot ones on an empty stomach. It was bad. You did hot ones?

• 1:17:58David Imel?

  I feel like every time I say it, I'm like, maybe I'm flexing.

• 1:18:04David Imel?

  Yeah. I did watch one of them.

• 1:18:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:18:09David Imel?

  Did you? I did. Okay.

• 1:18:10Speaker 04

  Which one?

• 1:18:12David Imel?

  I don't know. One of the two. I think it was the first one. Anyway, yeah, so. I've been here a long time.

• 1:18:18Speaker 04

  I think it's safe to say that while some of us were kind of right, I was the most wrong.

• 1:18:27David Imel?

  It's okay, Alice. I think you had a fair data, you know, because they have announced live translation like 50 times over the last 10 years. I, I, I had 11 years to make this bet. And the one year I made it is, uh, is the year I, yeah. Probably not best to guess the year that like all the LLMs actually started working.

• 1:18:47Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, that was our, our predictions. So now looking back at this past year, what do you think was the story of the year? If you had to pick one, what's the theme?

• 1:18:58David Imel?

  Tech story of the year.

• 1:18:59Andrew Manganelli?

  I like your list. I just liquid asses in the middle of it.

• 1:19:05David Imel?

  Damn, there was actually a lot of stuff this year.

• 1:19:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you want to read, just read this list out?

• 1:19:10David Imel?

  These are all things that happened this year.

• 1:19:11Speaker 04

  It's all stuff that happened in 2025.

• 1:19:13David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:19:13Speaker 04

  Nintendo Switch 2.

• 1:19:14David Imel?

  Let's go.

• 1:19:15Speaker 04

  Nintendo Switch 2. TikTok got sold? Question mark?

• 1:19:19David Imel?

  Sort of.

• 1:19:20Speaker 04

  Kind of, maybe?

• 1:19:20David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:21Speaker 04

  The first waveform livestream, which Alice added.

• 1:19:25Andrew Manganelli?

  I think another one of those has to happen in 2026 somehow, at least one.

• 1:19:29Speaker 04

  Uh, the Galaxy S25 happened. I feel like Galaxy and iPhone just by themselves are big things of the year in tech.

• 1:19:36Andrew Manganelli?

  I guess, but I would argue S lineup.

• 1:19:39David Imel?

  Basically not news this year.

• 1:19:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Didn't do anything.

• 1:19:42Speaker 04

  Is that news? Okay. Uh, next, Apple Vision Pro turned one.

• 1:19:47Speaker 04

  Don't remember. Deep Seek. Remember that?

• 1:19:50David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:50Speaker 04

  The whole industry shook. That was this year.

• 1:19:52David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:53Speaker 03

  That was crazy.

• 1:19:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:19:54Speaker 03

  Do we ever find out if that was cap or not?

• 1:19:57David Imel?

  Like, I don't, I don't think it was. They just released some new stuff last week.

• 1:20:01Speaker 04

  Uh, then there was the iPhone E, which confused us all.

• 1:20:05David Imel?

  Woof.

• 1:20:06Speaker 04

  And got best of the year.

• 1:20:07David Imel?

  Yeah, I forgot about that.

• 1:20:08Speaker 04

  Yeah. Sigma BF camera, remember that?

• 1:20:10David Imel?

  Oh, the Sigma boyfriend.

• 1:20:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was this year.

• 1:20:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Coolest thing for two weeks and.

• 1:20:14David Imel?

  Aw, metal, baby. Hey, two weeks is longer than a lot of stories last.

• 1:20:17Andrew Manganelli?

  That's true.

• 1:20:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's true. Live at South by.

• 1:20:19David Imel?

  That was fun.

• 1:20:20Speaker 04

  Our first show. That was cool. Uh, the Dodge EV Charger.

• 1:20:24David Imel?

  Vroom, vroom.

• 1:20:25Andrew Manganelli?

  That was this year.

• 1:20:26Speaker 04

  That was this year with this big sound.

• 1:20:27David Imel?

  Loudest EV of all time.

• 1:20:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 1:20:29Speaker 04

  That Marquez really hated.

• 1:20:30David Imel?

  The frat sonic chamber exhaust, man. You could hear us pull up from outside the studio.

• 1:20:35Speaker 03

  That was the muscle car that was too heavy to do burnouts.

• 1:20:39David Imel?

  Yeah, not enough power.

• 1:20:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:41David Imel?

  Wow. Yeah, unfortunate.

• 1:20:42Speaker 04

  Damn. Uh, iPhone Air. That happened. Big story.

• 1:20:45David Imel?

  Yeah, big story. And iPhone Air getting discontinued.

• 1:20:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Allegedly.

• 1:20:49David Imel?

  Allegedly.

• 1:20:50Speaker 04

  Uh, Liquid Ass, of course.

• 1:20:52David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:52Speaker 04

  An orange iPhone.

• 1:20:53David Imel?

  That might be the story.

• 1:20:54Andrew Manganelli?

  That might be.

• 1:20:56Speaker 04

  What, Liquid Glass?

• 1:20:57David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:57Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 1:20:58David Imel?

  It's one of them.

• 1:20:58Speaker 04

  Well, there was also the Jimmy Fallon Pixel 10 event.

• 1:21:01David Imel?

  That's the one.

• 1:21:04David Imel?

  This was the year.

• 1:21:06Speaker 04

  Meta AI glasses, part, part two or three, whatever. Uh, humanoid robots coming back. Didn't see that coming.

• 1:21:13David Imel?

  Oh, that was a lot, yeah.

• 1:21:14Speaker 04

  Steam Machine and Steam Frame announced, which everyone yelled at me because they said people were actually excited for the Steam Frames.

• 1:21:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, the frame. Yeah, I think people are excited for the frame. I don't care that much, but I'm excited for the Steam Machine.

• 1:21:25David Imel?

  I had a lot of normies hit me up and say they were stoked on the Steam Machine.

• 1:21:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:21:29David Imel?

  It was kind of surprising.

• 1:21:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:21:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Um, I think VR people.

• 1:21:31Speaker 03

  Kind of surprising, kind of surprising that normies care about Steam hardware? Really?

• 1:21:36David Imel?

  Yes.

• 1:21:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:21:40Speaker 03

  Was I not just saying this?

• 1:21:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Elliot's grandma has never heard of Steam Machine or the Steam Deck.

• 1:21:46Speaker 03

  I don't know who Elliot is.

• 1:21:47Andrew Manganelli?

  He's in our Discord server.

• 1:21:48Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:21:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Sorry, dude.

• 1:21:50David Imel?

  He's the guy whose grandma thought that the fold was AI.

• 1:21:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:54Andrew Manganelli?

  We stand her.

• 1:21:55Speaker 04

  Watch the video. Uh, AirDrop coming to Android.

• 1:22:01Speaker 04

  Come on.

• 1:22:01Speaker 01

  I think that might have been one of the big Titanic news. Yeah.

• 1:22:04Andrew Manganelli?

  We'd know more about it if they got Jimmy Fallon to pronounce it.

• 1:22:08Speaker 04

  Xiaomi seventeen Pro Max.

• 1:22:10Speaker 01

  That did happen.

• 1:22:11Speaker 04

  I don't think I pronounced that correctly. Xiaomi?

• 1:22:12Speaker 01

  That was right.

• 1:22:13Speaker 04

  Xiaomi.

• 1:22:13Speaker 01

  Xiaomi.

• 1:22:13Speaker 04

  Xiaomi. Uh, the Xiaomi Su seven that happened this year.

• 1:22:17Speaker 03

  Wait, I, I'm pretty sure it's SU seven. So I made a Su seven joke once around the office and, and no one has referred it as the SU seven.

• 1:22:24Speaker 01

  No, that's why.

• 1:22:25Speaker 04

  It's the Su seven. It's so perfect.

• 1:22:27Speaker 01

  I mean, I mean, I'm sure it's not pronounced that way in every market, but it's literally SU seven. Like, how else would you pronounce it? Maybe you're not supposed to ever pronounce it, but I naturally just started saying Sue, so. Sue seven.

• 1:22:38Speaker 04

  Or was it today's episode with the trifold?

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  Is that the story? Trifold is pretty crazy.

• 1:22:44Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:22:44Andrew Manganelli?

  No?

• 1:22:45Speaker 01

  I like the story of the top three. I have a Mount Rushmore.

• 1:22:47Speaker 04

  I have a top three as well.

• 1:22:48Speaker 01

  I'll take that. I'll take. I have a Mount Rushmore for this year.

• 1:22:50Speaker 03

  There are four heads on Mount Rushmore.

• 1:22:51Speaker 01

  Yes, I have a top four. I was adjusting, sorry. I had three and now I have four. So I have a Mount Rushmore for this year.

• 1:22:56Andrew Manganelli?

  The last one, George Rushmore.

• 1:22:59Speaker 01

  My Mount Rushmore for wayform and for stories of 2025, number one is liquid glass.

• 1:23:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 1:23:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's liquid glass. Not even necessarily number one, it's just on the mountain.

• 1:23:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:23:12Speaker 01

  Liquid glass. Number two, live at South by Southwest.

• 1:23:15Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 1:23:16Speaker 01

  I have to throw that on the Mount Rushmore. That was pretty bomb.

• 1:23:19Speaker 04

  It's pretty bomb.

• 1:23:19Speaker 01

  Number three, Su seven.

• 1:23:22Speaker 04

  Su seven.

• 1:23:23Speaker 01

  I didn't even do that.

• 1:23:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Kick it off.

• 1:23:25Speaker 04

  We're too old for this, dude. Shouldn't be.

• 1:23:27Speaker 01

  And number four. Let's throw, uh, let's throw meta AI glasses on there.

• 1:23:34Speaker 04

  Hot takes.

• 1:23:35Speaker 01

  I think that was really interesting. Switch two did kinda make a repeating, eh, I could make an argument for that. All right, throw the switch to it in there. Switch two is in there over the meta AI glasses.

• 1:23:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Thank goodness.

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  But I did find, uh, I got more people asking me in real life about the AI glasses.

• 1:23:51Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm not gonna do a Mount Rushmore, but I think the cool full circle thing is we got Project Muhan in like January.

• 1:24:01Andrew Manganelli?

  And we went to that event and they like teased the trifold in that little uh like timeline and we got it right at the end of the year.

• 1:24:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Which is kinda cool.

• 1:24:11David Imel?

  Just barely slipped in by the end. Yeah.

• 1:24:12Speaker 01

  It's sick.

• 1:24:13David Imel?

  I think that, you know, Liquid Ass being such a like a story that was just so prevalent throughout the entire year, like people still are talking about this. And and now a lot of the normies are updating their phones and they're all like, what the is this? Uh, nobody likes it. Notably, a lot of the Apple executives have moved on to other companies. The design chief that made Liquid Glass left for Meta, so he's gonna make,

• 1:24:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Great stories.

• 1:24:41David Imel?

  You know, everything over there is gonna be horrible now.

• 1:24:45David Imel?

  Even worse than it already is. So I feel like, yeah, I feel like Liquid Glass has been the most like, it's been a story all year, you know? I mean, we, it got announced in June of, was that this year? No, last year. No, this year.

• 1:25:01Andrew Manganelli?

  No, this year, this summer.

• 1:25:02David Imel?

  This year.

• 1:25:03Andrew Manganelli?

  They showed it off.

• 1:25:03David Imel?

  This summer.

• 1:25:04Andrew Manganelli?

  This.

• 1:25:05David Imel?

  They showed it off.

• 1:25:06Andrew Manganelli?

  This summer.

• 1:25:06David Imel?

  Coming to an iPhone near you. Yeah, now it's coming to everything.

• 1:25:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Maybe, but we're gonna change it a few times.

• 1:25:11David Imel?

  Yeah, so and considering all the other companies like copy Liquid Glass and to for their UIs in China, I would say that's one of the big ones. I do have a, sorry, I can't say this one more, I guess.

• 1:25:27Andrew Manganelli?

  I'll just bleep it. It'll just be one.

• 1:25:30David Imel?

  Okay, okay, yeah, just bleep it, yeah. So.

• 1:25:39Andrew Manganelli?

  The bleep is still going.

• 1:25:40David Imel?

  Just bleep it.

• 1:25:47David Imel?

  When TikTok got like banned for the night?

• 1:25:50Andrew Manganelli?

  That's so true.

• 1:25:52David Imel?

  Right? I remember exactly what I forgot about that.

• 1:25:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I do too.

• 1:25:57David Imel?

  They're like.

• 1:25:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Wow, I can picture.

• 1:25:58David Imel?

  And you had.

• 1:26:02Andrew Manganelli?

  And then we started scrolling like, no.

• 1:26:03Speaker 04

  Like, I know this is a finite scroll right now. Like, that's.

• 1:26:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, that did happen.

• 1:26:08David Imel?

  I remember reaching the end.

• 1:26:10Speaker 01

  That was January.

• 1:26:11David Imel?

  It crashed. And I was like, oh, my God.

• 1:26:12Speaker 01

  That was January.

• 1:26:13David Imel?

  I remember walking out of a bar with like my friend and he opens his phone and he goes, oh, my God.

• 1:26:20David Imel?

  TikTok is gone. Yeah, it was like a.

• 1:26:23Speaker 01

  It kind of staggered because I remember I was still scrolling, but my friend stopped scrolling. So they came over and watched.

• 1:26:29David Imel?

  That was January.

• 1:26:30Speaker 01

  That was January.

• 1:26:31David Imel?

  Give me my dopamine.

• 1:26:32Speaker 04

  All the, the video content was like, this could be gone. It was basically people saying like, goodbye and where else to find me. Yeah.

• 1:26:40David Imel?

  Yeah, on Red Note.

• 1:26:42Speaker 01

  And then.

• 1:26:45Speaker 04

  I forgot about that.

• 1:26:47David Imel?

  12 hours later, it was back.

• 1:26:48Speaker 01

  It was all back. Yeah, the next day, scrolling.

• 1:26:50Speaker 04

  Did it cross any of your minds? Because it crossed my mind because I'm like logged into TikTok and you know, all that stuff on my, on my phone for like the waveform podcast. Did it cross your minds that we should say goodbye?

• 1:27:00Speaker 01

  On TikTok?

• 1:27:01Speaker 04

  On TikTok?

• 1:27:01Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:27:02Speaker 04

  No, it didn't cross.

• 1:27:03Speaker 01

  We're not like TikTok native. I think it was the TikTok creators, those who have no other channels anywhere who were like, I need to like, take these people with me somewhere. Like the panic in the strategy of I'm just gonna spam like, please go follow me on Instagram now was very real. We have a diversified audience on a couple of platforms. Our TikTok going away would kind of suck, but wouldn't be the end of the world. So we didn't feel it needs to say goodbye.

• 1:27:26David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:27Speaker 01

  But it would have been pretty wild if it went away.

• 1:27:30David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:30Speaker 01

  Dua Lipa interviewing Tim Cook was last year, right?

• 1:27:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:27:34David Imel?

  Cause I was on paternity.

• 1:27:35Speaker 01

  I guess that won't be on my.

• 1:27:37Speaker 04

  That's on my Mount Rushmore period.

• 1:27:40Speaker 01

  This year I interviewed Tim Cook and he just didn't answer any of the questions.

• 1:27:44David Imel?

  That was this year?

• 1:27:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:46David Imel?

  Really?

• 1:27:47Speaker 01

  I was like, you want to do a blind ranking of some Apple stuff? And he was like, what's that? I was like, this is not gonna work.

• 1:27:54Speaker 03

  The Magic Mouse.

• 1:27:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:57David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:58Speaker 01

  I forgot that was.

• 1:27:59David Imel?

  That moment is on my Mount Rushmore of this year.

• 1:28:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:02David Imel?

  Where I could see the clip as it was happening.

• 1:28:06Speaker 01

  The ergonomics.

• 1:28:07Speaker 03

  Ergonomics.

• 1:28:09David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:10Speaker 03

  This year just felt like a bunch of nonsense to me. I don't know, like.

• 1:28:13David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:13Speaker 03

  I, it's hard for me to make my Mount Rushmore, you know, I like, like Samsung put out some really great stuff. Orange iPhone was great, you know.

• 1:28:21David Imel?

  What did Samsung put out that was good?

• 1:28:24Speaker 03

  Well, we don't know if it's good yet, but they did it, you know, they said, they said they were gonna do it and they, then they did it.

• 1:28:29David Imel?

  Yeah, they did do it.

• 1:28:30Speaker 04

  Android XR goggles too.

• 1:28:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, you know, even, even Meta said they were gonna do a thing and they did it.

• 1:28:36David Imel?

  I have a hot take.

• 1:28:37Speaker 03

  They also.

• 1:28:39David Imel?

  It's cooking.

• 1:28:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, honestly, honestly, my Mount Rushmore is all of the unsealed documents from the Meta lawsuit. I don't know if there's four of them, but man.

• 1:28:49David Imel?

  There's definitely at least four.

• 1:28:51Speaker 04

  That's good.

• 1:28:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:51David Imel?

  Yeah, and the Nintendo Switch 2.

• 1:28:53Speaker 03

  And then the Nintendo Switch 2, a device I don't own and I've never played.

• 1:28:57David Imel?

  Yeah, but it, there was a lot of hype for a lot of months.

• 1:29:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Mark, what's your hot take? We're also going to start the next year with predictions again, but we'll do that next episode in a couple of weeks.

• 1:29:08David Imel?

  Well, not next episode, the week.

• 1:29:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, yeah, you're right.

• 1:29:11David Imel?

  Another.

• 1:29:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Regularly scheduled.

• 1:29:13David Imel?

  Yeah, in the new year.

• 1:29:14Speaker 01

  I was just gonna say Samsung ships a car in three years.

• 1:29:18David Imel?

  Whoa, whoa, where did that come from?

• 1:29:20Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:29:21David Imel?

  Xiaomi just shipped a car.

• 1:29:22Speaker 03

  Do you know something we don't?

• 1:29:23David Imel?

  Yeah, but Xiaomi is Chinese.

• 1:29:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:25David Imel?

  And China like pumps money into car companies.

• 1:29:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, shit, that shit, Samsung's gonna show up.

• 1:29:30Speaker 03

  Samsung like owns South Korea.

• 1:29:31Speaker 01

  They're also gonna like collab, yeah, they have a lot of funding. And they're, they're gonna collab, they're gonna scrap a bunch of stuff together, a bunch of metal, a bunch of collaborative companies, and they're gonna make a car.

• 1:29:40David Imel?

  Do they just gonna collab with Kia?

• 1:29:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, pick a, insert Korean, yeah, sure. Yeah, but it'll have a Samsung logo somewhere in there.

• 1:29:49Speaker 03

  Samsung sold their car division to Renault a bunch of years ago and it got rebranded to just Renault Korea. They still have a minority stake in it, but it seems like Samsung's auto business is now mostly a Renault thing and Geely also has a minority stake in it.

• 1:30:04Speaker 01

  Did the twerking hamster in the uh, did that happen this year?

• 1:30:08Speaker 03

  No, that was last year.

• 1:30:09Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:30:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:10Andrew Manganelli?

  I think that might have been two years ago. I think that might have been two years ago.

• 1:30:13Speaker 01

  That would have been on my rush more for me for sure. You know what I'm really hoping? I'm really hoping I get one more trivia point this year. It's been so long since I got a point in trivia. It might have been before Thanksgiving.

• 1:30:25Andrew Manganelli?

  It might have been when the corgi was twerking on the mini group.

• 1:30:29Speaker 01

  That's true. So, uh, I say we do the trivia.

• 1:30:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Trivia dude.

• 1:30:34Speaker 03

  Trivia dude.

• 1:30:36Andrew Manganelli?

  But first, Ellis has.

• 1:30:38Speaker 03

  It's what's, okay.

• 1:30:40Speaker 01

  It's us us.

• 1:30:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Sorry, Ellis was just shaking the.

• 1:30:44Speaker 01

  You're holding a computer with two hands, Marques.

• 1:30:47Speaker 03

  Wait, where'd your computer go?

• 1:30:49Speaker 01

  It's in my hand.

• 1:30:50Speaker 03

  I like to use a phone.

• 1:30:51Speaker 01

  It's in my pocket now.

• 1:30:52Speaker 03

  What, where'd you?

• 1:30:53Speaker 01

  Sorry, sorry.

• 1:30:54Andrew Manganelli?

  It's time for Ellis to eat the bomb.

• 1:30:57Speaker 03

  Guys, okay, so as promised at the beginning of the year, um, I said live translation wasn't gonna be a thing because every tech company had been announcing it every year for the past decade and lo and behold, the year I place my bet is the year it all comes out. And so as promised, I will be doing the bomb on a spoon. I have with me some aids, a glass of milk, some extra toasty Cheez-Its and string cheese. This is just what I ran and got from the.

• 1:31:26Speaker 01

  To save you.

• 1:31:26Speaker 03

  There's some solidified stuff at the top, so I'm just gonna get, get that out of the way because I feel like that's gonna be extra concentrated.

• 1:31:35Speaker 03

  My heart is like already racing.

• 1:31:38Speaker 01

  I'm nervous for you.

• 1:31:39Speaker 03

  I've had to bomb before. Have I had it raw on an empty stomach? No.

• 1:31:43Speaker 01

  No. It's saying you mean ulcer.

• 1:31:46Speaker 04

  Probably.

• 1:31:47Speaker 01

  This smells horrible.

• 1:31:50Speaker 04

  It smells like battery acid.

• 1:31:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, it tastes like, I'll just let you experience it. You know what battery acid tastes like? It tastes like what you imagine battery acid tastes like. I don't have to taste battery acid to tell people this tastes like battery acid. You know? Fair enough. That is a whole dab. Ladies and gentlemen, Ellis is being very brave right now. I'm worried. I'm worried.

• 1:32:11Speaker 03

  I'm gonna, am I allowed to, am I allowed to coat my palate with cheese at first?

• 1:32:14Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:32:15Speaker 04

  It's not gonna save you, bro. It's not gonna help.

• 1:32:16Speaker 01

  Is there anything, okay, I need like a safe word for you, like, is there something where like if you actually need? Once he does it, it's a drop. I don't know, what are we supposed to do if you like are gonna die?

• 1:32:25Speaker 04

  They don't come after 7pm.

• 1:32:27Speaker 03

  So.

• 1:32:28Speaker 01

  I'm nervous.

• 1:32:29Speaker 03

  I will say, I am a spicy food expert.

• 1:32:32Speaker 01

  Kind of won't save you.

• 1:32:34Speaker 03

  And something I do know about spicy food is that the trick is small bites. And that is impossible on a spoon. So I'm just going to touch this chopstick to my tongue a few times as a ramp up. And then we're gonna dive in.

• 1:32:45Speaker 04

  No, the trick is a glass of water.

• 1:32:47Speaker 03

  I never apologized, the whole thing. I never apologized. Computer programmers of the world, software developers, machine learning engineers, AI, venture capitalists, Apple, Google, Microsoft executives, Mag7 employees. I'm sorry. I thought y'all were full of [BLEEP]. I thought y'all were mad full of [BLEEP]. And taking billions of dollars from people who are also full of [BLEEP]. To sell people stuff that didn't work. And I still think that's what's going on.

• 1:33:16Speaker 01

  Welcome to America.

• 1:33:17Speaker 03

  I was wrong. Um, and now I'm gonna pay the price. So let's get a little warm up going. Do it.

• 1:33:24Speaker 01

  It doesn't work that way. It's just like getting stabbed by a thousand tiny knives, basically.

• 1:33:29Andrew Manganelli?

  I thought I was smart.

• 1:33:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, baby.

• 1:33:33Speaker 04

  All right, give him the first question.

• 1:33:34Speaker 01

  Did you do it?

• 1:33:35Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:33:36Speaker 01

  You should prepare exactly what you plan to say because I know it's gonna be hard to say. You can back out, Ellis. No, yeah, we can't.

• 1:33:41Speaker 03

  My word. Thank you, Marquez.

• 1:33:43Speaker 01

  You're in. I wrote down the answer already. Oh, I forget the question. What was it? Oh, you're gonna say it? Is that the whole amount?

• 1:33:53Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:33:54Speaker 01

  That's enough.

• 1:33:55Speaker 04

  He did it. He took a spoonful.

• 1:33:59Speaker 04

  Careful around the eyes.

• 1:34:01Speaker 03

  Marques Brownlee, Andrew Bagdelli.

• 1:34:02Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, yeah.

• 1:34:03Speaker 03

  David Mill.

• 1:34:04Speaker 04

  It gets worse when you talk.

• 1:34:05Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:34:06Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:34:07Speaker 03

  What three letters represent both a Chinese tech conglomerate?

• 1:34:13Speaker 03

  Oh no. Chinese Techno Amrit and an American blues guitar legend.

• 1:34:24Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't usually do trivia from here. I can see Marquez's board. I was never gonna guess that, so I'm just not going to guess.

• 1:34:31Speaker 03

  I'm so sorry.

• 1:34:32Andrew Manganelli?

  We've never done this before.

• 1:34:35Speaker 04

  Ellis is at the big table and Andrew is next to me at the producer table, which has a great view of Marquez's board. So that didn't work.

• 1:34:42Speaker 01

  Didn't think about that one.

• 1:34:43Andrew Manganelli?

  I kinda thought that bomb was gonna be like too old, but uh.

• 1:34:47Speaker 03

  Oh, it did say refrigerated after oak and it has been on our table unrefrigerated for like two years.

• 1:34:53Andrew Manganelli?

  It seems like it's getting in pretty good though.

• 1:34:56Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:34:58Speaker 03

  Marquez, what did you put?

• 1:34:59Speaker 01

  I put ECL.

• 1:35:01Speaker 03

  And what American blues legend has that the initials of?

• 1:35:08Speaker 01

  I don't know. Tom.

• 1:35:12Speaker 01

  I don't know. I hadn't thought that far ahead.

• 1:35:23Speaker 03

  David, what'd you put?

• 1:35:24Speaker 01

  I put BBK.

• 1:35:25Speaker 03

  Okay, that's right.

• 1:35:27Andrew Manganelli?

  David gets the point.

• 1:35:28Speaker 03

  What?

• 1:35:30Speaker 03

  What? What blues guitar legend?

• 1:35:33Speaker 01

  BB King.

• 1:35:34Speaker 03

  BB King is correct. Good job.

• 1:35:36Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 1:35:38Speaker 03

  Can you play the after dark music or something?

• 1:35:49Speaker 01

  I'm ready for the next one.

• 1:35:52Speaker 03

  Next question.

• 1:35:53Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:35:54Speaker 03

  What is the Scoville rating of the bomb that Ellis just inhaled?

• 1:35:58Speaker 01

  And it's Delta? Andrew didn't answer.

• 1:36:03Speaker 03

  He's not gonna answer because he saw Marquez's board.

• 1:36:07Speaker 01

  Actually, I'm moving, I'm changing.

• 1:36:08Andrew Manganelli?

  We're. Are we doing Price is Right or Delta? Oh, we are doing Delta. Okay, cool.

• 1:36:16Speaker 01

  I prefer United. Just kidding, I don't. Um.

• 1:36:21Speaker 03

  Alright, we're good.

• 1:36:27Speaker 04

  Wait, real quick, before we flip.

• 1:36:28David Imel?

  Am I wrong?

• 1:36:29Speaker 04

  Quick update on the score.

• 1:36:30David Imel?

  Oh.

• 1:36:30Speaker 04

  Marquez has 10. David, after that correct question, well, after that correct answer, was 12. Andrew with 14.

• 1:36:37Speaker 01

  I need...

• 1:36:38Speaker 04

  Alright, flip him and read. What do you got? Please be...

• 1:36:41David Imel?

  Oh my goodness.

• 1:36:42Speaker 04

  Andrew, what'd you say?

• 1:36:43Speaker 01

  Big range.

• 1:36:44Andrew Manganelli?

  2.3 million.

• 1:36:46Speaker 04

  Marquez?

• 1:36:47Speaker 01

  835,000.

• 1:36:50Speaker 01

  David?

• 1:36:50Speaker 05

  35,000?

• 1:36:53David Imel?

  Uh, 10,000.

• 1:36:57Speaker 04

  Y'all really gonna make me do some crazy math?

• 1:36:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Is it like 1 point something?

• 1:37:01Speaker 04

  It's 135K. That's what I wrote the first time! So Marquez is closest.

• 1:37:05Speaker 01

  Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

• 1:37:07Speaker 04

  No, I'm for it.

• 1:37:07Speaker 01

  No, he's not.

• 1:37:08Speaker 04

  Wait, no, David tells us! David got the point!

• 1:37:11Speaker 01

  You can kinda see it. I wrote, I thought it was 135,000. And I was right, and then I erased it and wrote 835,000. Cause I doubted myself. I almost nailed it.

• 1:37:21David Imel?

  Never doubt yourself, Marquez. Never doubt yourself.

• 1:37:24Speaker 01

  It's gonna be a whole year before I get a point.

• 1:37:26David Imel?

  That's just tough.

• 1:37:27Speaker 04

  Alright. Ellis, how are you doing over there?

• 1:37:30Speaker 03

  Uh, actually pretty good. It's just my lips at this point. I mean, I say that, and then I'm sure it's gonna come back. It also like...

• 1:37:36Speaker 04

  It will on the toilet later.

• 1:37:37Speaker 03

  It somehow regardless is in my nose. Didn't touch my nose.

• 1:37:42Speaker 03

  But, um...

• 1:37:44Andrew Manganelli?

  That's a wrap.

• 1:37:45Speaker 03

  That's hot, man.

• 1:37:46Speaker 01

  Congrats on, on keeping it to your word. Hopefully, hopefully the bets that we make next year are...

• 1:37:52Speaker 03

  No, I already know. Next year, none of those humanoid robots are coming out. And if, if one of them does, I'm doing this shit again, baby!

• 1:37:59David Imel?

  I love it. Do, do two of them next time.

• 1:38:02Speaker 01

  If one of them comes out?

• 1:38:03David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:38:03Speaker 01

  That's perfect.

• 1:38:04David Imel?

  I like that.

• 1:38:04Speaker 01

  That's a great place to end it.

• 1:38:05Andrew Manganelli?

  The humanoid robot can serve you the spoonful of last day.

• 1:38:08Speaker 03

  Yeah. That's actually, that's what we'll do. If, if one of these humanoid robots actually comes out and it actually works, that robot can come on the show and spoon me another...

• 1:38:19David Imel?

  Man.

• 1:38:20Speaker 03

  De-bomb.

• 1:38:21David Imel?

  From the same bottle.

• 1:38:22Speaker 01

  Smells so bad, even from here.

• 1:38:24Speaker 04

  Marquez, please take us out.

• 1:38:25Speaker 01

  Yep. Thanks for watching, thanks for listening for all of 2025. Uh, see you on the other side. 2026 is gonna be sick.

• 1:38:32Speaker 04

  Do it!

• 1:38:33Speaker 01

  Except for next week's episode, we'll also be here.

• 1:38:35Andrew Manganelli?

  One more bonus episode next week.

• 1:38:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:37Speaker 03

  Play After Dark 3.

• 1:38:38Speaker 01

  There's a third one.

• 1:38:41Speaker 03

  Waveform is produced by Adam Molina and Ellis Roben. We're part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. We're, uh, Vane Still wrote the music. This has been 2025 on Waveform. Let's get it.

• 1:38:57Speaker 01

  Whoops. Just fade to black.

• 1:39:06Andrew Manganelli?

  All right, for this clip's outro, Ellis is going to be taking another hit of the bomb. Ellis, where'd you go?

• 1:39:16Speaker 08

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