“Don’t Let Anyone Control You With Money” with Reese Witherspoon

Reese Witherspoon may be known as America’s sweetheart — but behind the scenes, she’s built a billion-dollar empire that changed Hollywood for women everywhere. In this episode of Aspire, Emma Grede sits down with Reese to talk about the moment she stopped waiting for permission, the lessons she learned about money and ownership, and what it really takes to pivot in your career when everything looks successful from the outside — but you know you’re meant for more. From her first acting gig at 14 to founding Hello Sunshine and selling it for nearly a billion dollars, Reese opens up about: -How to recognize when it’s time to make a change -Why independence — not wealth — is real power -The biggest money mistakes women make (and how to avoid them) -What it means to truly bet on yourself If you’ve ever felt stuck, under-valued, or ready for your next chapter, this conversation will remind you: you are your own best investment.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Emma Grede?

  You know that feeling when everything looks so successful from the outside, but behind the scenes you're just trying to keep it together? Well, Reese Witherspoon knows that feeling too. That's when she decided to bet on herself, to pivot, to take control and start something totally new. Reese built a company, sold it for nearly a billion dollars, and still she's just getting started. And if you've ever worried about money, security, or about what's next, Reese has got the playbook. This week on Aspire, Reese talks about how to know when it's time for a change and how to build something that's truly yours.

• 0:50Emma Grede?

  I'm really excited to speak to you today for so many reasons, but the first one is that, you know, we all watched you and your career, and you were like America's sweetheart. But you have done such a transition and such a pivot. And so for this particular audience, I'm excited to talk to you about, I don't know whether we want to call it your second chapter, third chapter, what it is, but Reese, the businesswoman, because you have been wildly successful. And I guess my first question to you is whether or not you pivoted out of necessity or ambition?

• 1:22Speaker 01

  Hmm, I think both. I think I saw a white space and I also was driven by a passion for storytelling. And I also had a little girl that I really saw this sudden dearth of storytelling for women with the complexity that really represented all women. And I just wasn't seeing Hollywood step up and develop those stories. So I decided to do it myself.

• 1:46Emma Grede?

  Clearly, and you really did do it. So will you just talk a little bit for people that don't know about the genesis of Hello Sunshine? Like, because you obviously had a production company before that and you decided that you would, you know, turn yourself into a media mogul. So let's talk a little bit about the difference between the two and what made you actually start? What was that white space that you saw?

• 2:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure. I started my career in Hollywood when I was 14 years old. I did my very first movie. I was one of those lucky lightning strike moments where I went to audition in Nashville, Tennessee, for a movie and I ended up getting the lead. So it was just one of those rare opportunities. But I was also prepared, right? So I'd done two years of acting classes. And my career just took off from there. I made probably seven movies before I even went to college. I ended up going to Stanford for a year, but I ended up dropping out and just mainly because I couldn't afford the tuition, I decided to just really throw my shoulder into acting and I started working a ton. So for the first, I would say, 20 years of my career, I was an actress, an actress for hire.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  I didn't really produce. I didn't write anything. I didn't come up with original characters. And then probably when I was about 34, well, I will say when I was about, when Legally Blonde came out, I got a production deal from Universal Studios for three years. They paid for everything and I made zero movies. I was 24 years old. I didn't understand. I also didn't know what stories I wanted to tell. I had a great team. I just, I wasn't, I didn't have intention. And so then when I became-

• 3:24Emma Grede?

  I mean, you were 24.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  I was 24. I hadn't lived enough of life to understand where the gaps were in the market. I didn't understand my business that well. And so I really, for the next 10 years, I was a mom. I was a working actress, working at a really high level with every studio head in town, had great relationships. And we're, you know, talking 70-hour weeks and long producing schedules and long marketing schedules. And I just, I showed up and I was a good worker, you know? And I was known as a really good worker. And then when I was about 34, I had this moment that changed everything,

• 4:04Speaker 01

  which was reading this script. I read the script and it had a guy as a lead and it had two female leads and the women just supported the guy and it was all these crass jokes and I thought it was awful. And they said, so I called my agent. I said, "Well, I'm not, I'm not doing this. This is gonna set women back." And she said, "Every actress in town wants these two parts." And- It was this huge moment for me where I was like, this is what you have to offer. First of all, not just the actresses, but the women in the world. These, this is how you want to showcase women in the world. I was disgusted, I was angry. So I went on a campaign, a listening tour.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  I went on a listening tour and I, you know, called all my studio head friends and say, hey, can I sit down with you? I just want to hear what you're developing for women at your studio. And going to see every head of every studio, all seven of them. Only one was developing a woman, a female lead in a movie. And they said, they said to me, we have one movie that's starring a woman this year. We can't have two.

• 5:11Emma Grede?

  Okay.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. Even though we're.

• 5:13Emma Grede?

  And this is not, we're not going back like 50 years here. We're talking 10 years ago.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  This was 2011.

• 5:18Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  2011. And I was like, wow, this is just some, this is not acceptable.

• 5:24Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  It was, it was, yeah, it was mind bending.

• 5:27Emma Grede?

  But it's interesting to me that you took that as fuel to start something because I feel like there are so many people that either take what's on the table or they sit with the rejection. Not everybody goes like, well, I can do something with this. And I wonder what you would say to other ambitious women about starting a company.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Okay, I think this was a moment too, because I did the wrong thing first. First, I just complained and I kept illuminating the problem to everybody who would listen. All my really fierce, amazing friends, I would say, well, you know, there's this issue. They're, they're not making enough content for us. And it was all this stuff about DVD sales had dropped out of the market and, you know, the, the cost for development had gone up. And they were like, well, you know, I don't know how to solve this systematic problem.

• 6:18Emma Grede?

  Leave it alone.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, and I complained about it. And then I, I had this kind of aha moment where I was like, okay, I can either admire the problem. I'm giving it a lot of attention or I can come up with a solution to fix it. And that was everything for me. So for the next six months, all I did pen to paper. Said, what can I do about it? And also, I'm, I'm the one complaining about this problem. I'm gonna, if I was, think I'm gonna fix it, I'm gonna put my money where my mouth is and I'm gonna invest in myself. Because I'm my own best lottery ticket. I know I will pay off.

• 6:53Emma Grede?

  You know, you're like, I can make this work.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  Well, I know.

• 6:57Emma Grede?

  Were you that certain about it from the beginning? Were you like, I'm gonna build a billion dollar company, cause I know I can bet on myself?

• 7:02Speaker 01

  No, I never thought it was gonna be a billion dollar, nine hundred million dollar. I never, never.

• 7:06Emma Grede?

  You really didn't?

• 7:07Speaker 01

  I was like, no, I just knew I was gonna solve a problem. I knew I read more books than a lot of other people. I knew I read super fast. I had a market advantage.

• 7:15Emma Grede?

  So you were much more mission focused. You were like, here's a white space, here's a huge problem, I'm gonna solve the problem. Not like, I'm gonna build wealth for myself, I'm gonna start a media company.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  No, that wasn't my intention. My intention was create more stories for women, create more opportunities for different kinds of women to have the opportunity to tell their story.

• 7:36Emma Grede?

  Mm hmm.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  And then the other part, I haven't really ever talked about this publicly, but it was me sort of wrestling with this fame dynamic.

• 7:45Emma Grede?

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  Where I was getting all this attention, but I didn't want any of it. And I thought, how can I take that and use all of that energy that's coming at me and point it towards another woman?

• 7:59Emma Grede?

  Oh, yes.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Who is working her ass off and deserves that attention.

• 8:03Emma Grede?

  And it really worked, right? I mean, for, for, for your little idea to turn into not just this company, but a movement in the entertainment business, like, there has been a seismic shift. I'm not saying everything has, you know, it's solved and it's all done, but there has been a seismic shift. And I think so much of that is owing to what you did and you being really loud and purposeful about what you were trying to build. Don't you think?

• 8:30Speaker 01

  Well, I was definitely loud about it. Yeah.

• 8:32Emma Grede?

  But you were, because I feel like we all knew you were on a mission. Like, anybody that read about Hello Sunshine, it wasn't like, please start a media company. It was like, here's this giant problem and here's what she's doing to solve it. And it was very clear that there was like, this was a purpose-built company. And even as you were like attracting staff and bringing people on, it was like, ooh, ooh, everybody, everything felt like it was like, like chess, like it was like, this is what we're doing, this is what we set out to do.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, it was very intentional. I think back to your point, I was really clear on the mission.

• 9:03Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  And the mission was also, we were, we were really fueled by this digital transformation.

• 9:09Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  So suddenly, everything went to social media platforms, YouTube. I was noticing marketing was shifting on my movies. We'd have completely different marketing meetings and we'd sit in traditional marketing meetings. They did not understand social media. I mean, it was just wildly clear. And I thought, this is a gap I can, I can bridge.

• 9:31Emma Grede?

  So that wasn't something that was scary to you, like every, you know, because if you start in the business when you're fourteen, there's a tried and tested way that you've been successful. You actually saw it as an opportunity as, rather than a threat to, to your business.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  Yes, I always look at technology in the future as not like, oh, God, it's gonna make me obsolete. I look, I say, how can I harness it and teach other women how to harness it? To create my business or push us all forward.

• 9:57Emma Grede?

  So you're not shaking in your boots at AI now?

• 10:01Speaker 01

  No, I'm pausing because there's some stuff recently that's really.

• 10:04Emma Grede?

  It's, yeah. You know. It's giving us pause.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  It's giving us pause.

• 10:08Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  And we don't, we don't have any regulation and we, we will, we'll get there. There's not enough policy around certain things, but I'm not scared.

• 10:16Emma Grede?

  Well, there's certain things you can't fight, right? I feel like it's like, how do we embrace it? How do we come together? How do we, one and one has got to equal three at some point, but it's not gonna work to, to shun what's happening.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Well, also when streaming started, it was really clear that the best content on streaming was long form television. Lot of shows, binging. And a lot of, I think, traditional movie stars were reticent to go into a new format. Cause we all came up hearing, don't do TV, don't do TV. TVs are the, the second, you know, that's our.

• 10:49Emma Grede?

  It's like a step down.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a step down. Once you go to TV, you'll never come back to movies. I was like, you know what?

• 10:56Speaker 01

  No, I don't agree. I think we're all moving towards a new reality. I was also watching my teenage children not go to the movies anymore.

• 11:05Emma Grede?

  That'll show you. You have to look at those patterns and what's happening. I'm like, my kids don't even know the TV, where the TV is.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  No.

• 11:12Emma Grede?

  At home. They live on a device. They live on YouTube.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, we have one TV in our house. We used to have one in every room.

• 11:18Emma Grede?

  Do you remember? Totally. And you wanted a big TV. Where I come from, it was like, we want a giant thing that takes up the whole room. Now it's like, no, thank you.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  No, thank you.

• 11:26Emma Grede?

  It's just kind of lovely for the house.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's kind of nice.

• 11:28Emma Grede?

  Kind of romantic.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Better lines.

• 11:30Emma Grede?

  It's really, really true.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:32Emma Grede?

  You have such a, like, this, well, this is how I see you, but you have such a personality type that is synonymous with you. I said, America's sweetheart, but you kind of look at you and you're like, this woman is so wonderful and so sweet and so sort of the earth. So when you made this transition.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:50Emma Grede?

  Do you think people took you seriously? Like, do you think people saw you coming?

• 11:54Speaker 01

  No. I think people knew I was a hard worker, but I don't think, and I will tell you, it wasn't successful right out of the gate.

• 12:03Emma Grede?

  Talk about that, please. Tell me, tell me more.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  When I started the company, I was in this, like, little, almost rundown office building, because I was self-funding and I had two employees.

• 12:14Emma Grede?

  You really, you self-funded from the beginning? So it was actually, you were truly taking a bet on yourself with your own money?

• 12:19Speaker 01

  Yep. And I decided, I had this producing partner, and we decided to option two books. Our first two books were Wild and Gone Girl. And so.

• 12:31Emma Grede?

  They were your first two books?

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 12:33Emma Grede?

  Shut up!

• 12:34Speaker 01

  And I read it in galleys before I was ever.

• 12:35Emma Grede?

  You're like, pew, pew!

• 12:36Speaker 01

  But they just both hit number one, probably six months later.

• 12:40Emma Grede?

  That's crazy.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  And I thought, oh crap.

• 12:42Emma Grede?

  You're like, I'm really fucking good at this. I would have been like, yep, that's me.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  But then I had to turn them into movies, and that's a whole other thing. It's like, it's great to have potential.

• 12:51Emma Grede?

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:52Speaker 01

  It's great to get that star, but what are you gonna do with that? So I knew I had to execute at a very, very high level. And so then we did. We executed at a very high level. And we got three Oscar nominations for three different women. It made a combined $600 million in box office.

• 13:10Emma Grede?

  That's enormous.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  And I could not keep the lights on in my company.

• 13:15Emma Grede?

  Oh.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  Oh, even post Big Little Lies. I was doing Big Little Lies and I was like, the numbers aren't mathing out here. I can't have, so we went up to four employees. I wanted to give them all health insurance. I wanted to make sure it was a great working experience for them. And I'm not talking I had fancy offices. I had three offices in Beverly Hills. I mean, that's a nice area, but they weren't nice by any means. And I, it just wasn't mathing out.

• 13:42Emma Grede?

  And what was that? Because I, I wanted to talk to you about the fact that you brought a C, a CEO into your company from the beginning, which again, a lot of people feel like they have to, they started a company, they founded something, they need to be the CEO, but you didn't do that. So tell, talk to me a little bit about that timing. You're, you're making all of these waves. You're doing the important work. You're actually meeting your mission and your purpose, but you're not making any money. And that bothered you, obviously, because again, for some people, they're like, well, as long as I get this piece over here, that doesn't matter.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I, I, no. I was like, wait, so, so then I dug in again and I met with my friend who ran a venture fund. And he and I started talking about it and he was like, well, what do you own of these shows? I was like, nothing. And he said, well, how do you get to ownership? And I said, well, that's the magic key. Kid, you know, actors historically don't own any of their characters. I don't own El Woods. I don't own Tracy Flick. I, I don't own any of these characters. And so he said, okay, well, let's put, put our heads down and feel like this is a really interesting time where studios, streaming studios need you more than we need them. And I said, you're right. And he said, I think we could drive some really crazy deals. And so he and I got together and put together a business plan. And I was like, really?

• 14:57Speaker 01

  I'm going to ask them for these things that are breaking precedent? And he was like, yeah, you are. You're you. And you bring, now you have social media followers. You're going to bring this marketing component too. You have, you're not the average producer, so you're not going to get the average producer deal.

• 15:12Emma Grede?

  And could you absorb that? Could you take that in and go like, yeah, I'm going to run with that, what he said?

• 15:16Speaker 01

  I mean, I didn't believe it would happen. But I was like, I'll, I'll die trying.

• 15:22Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  That's actually, you know, why not? Why not ask? All they can say is no. And then I won't go work for them. I'll take it. The other advantage I had was I would get a book. And I knew I had a really good taste for what would be popular. Not what would make you smarter or whatever.

• 15:41Emma Grede?

  Where'd you get that from?

• 15:42Speaker 01

  Reading so many books as a child, so many books as a young adult, so many books as a young woman and a mom. That I was like, ah, that one's gonna be really popular. I just know. So we had this, it was like this flywheel where I could pick a book, take, attach a piece of talent. Let's just say like, little fires everywhere. I said, call Kerry Washington and say, I always wanted to work with you. You and I are gonna be producers. We're gonna star in it together and we're gonna work for ourselves. And we're gonna drive this like really great producing.

• 16:11Emma Grede?

  And she thought, yes, please.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  She was like, let's do it. Let's do it.

• 16:14Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  And so then we go to market. We called these seven studios and we say, which one of you wants it? And it's a bidding war. So we'd say, okay, and also you're gonna break precedent and we're gonna have terms that you've never agreed to before. And that's what we did. And it just, we did it again. And then we did it again. And we did it again. And we created enterprise value for this company because we're building a library.

• 16:40Emma Grede?

  I mean.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  At the same time as building the social media and, and the brand and brand partnerships. With different, you know, great blue chip brands.

• 16:48Emma Grede?

  Is that indicative of what business Reese is like? Like somebody that isn't fearful and unashamedly goes after what she wants?

• 16:57Speaker 01

  I'll tell you, I know what I know and I know what I don't know. And I'm really, I have zero ego about saying, I'm gonna stop you. I don't know what you're talking about. Can you explain it to me?

• 17:07Emma Grede?

  It's so important.

• 17:08Speaker 01

  So.

• 17:09Emma Grede?

  I feel like, again, a lot of women don't feel comfortable to do that. And I think it's one of the things that we have to learn, that it's all right if you don't know. And trying to fake it is not helpful to anyone.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Fake it, you're gonna get yourself in deep mud.

• 17:25Emma Grede?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 17:26Speaker 01

  Deep mud. And so I would turn to my CEO, Sarah Harden, and I'd go.

• 17:30Emma Grede?

  Oh, I love Sarah Harden.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  Is she great?

• 17:32Emma Grede?

  Sarah Harden. Yeah, she's a G.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  And she had sold all these digital businesses that had male founders. And this was the first time she would approached by a woman who was like, I want to do what you just did for seven different companies.

• 17:44Emma Grede?

  Let's do that.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. And she was like, great. I love to read. I love storytelling. But she kind of coached me for the first two years of our company. I didn't know anything. I did not go to business school.

• 17:57Emma Grede?

  How smart of you to bring somebody in that did because I remember reading this amazing thing. And I don't remember if it was Charlie Munger or I think it was Charlie. But it was like, well, how are you guys so good at finding the right people to run your companies? And he said, we look for someone who's done exactly the same job somewhere else and been wildly successful.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:20Emma Grede?

  I'm like, duh, duh. It sounds so simple. But again, it's like, if you want to be successful, and I love this fact that you brought people in that you could learn from, right? She taught you what you didn't know. And you were smart enough to know what you didn't know. And so it says a lot about you as a person that you can surround yourself with people like that. But you don't feel threatened.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  Right. And she didn't feel threatened by me. And we had a really nice match of skill set. I'm a real creative. So I can sprinkle magic on things or I'm an enthusiast too. Like you, I could tell.

• 18:51Emma Grede?

  Totally. You have to be.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  You could sell ice to Eskimos, Emma.

• 18:55Emma Grede?

  I like to think so, Race.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  I'm like, seriously, I don't know what's happening, what you're selling me, but I'm buying it.

• 19:01Emma Grede?

  All right, let's do it. What do we got? Let's just do it. Yeah.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  Let's do it.

• 19:05Emma Grede?

  Let's do it.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  Um, but I'm that way. And Sarah's like, okay, we can accomplish one of those five ideas, Race. But we're not going to do all five this week.

• 19:15Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 19:15Emma Grede?

  Fair.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  Because my brain just gets excited about the possibility.

• 19:20Emma Grede?

  Of course.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  And so.

• 19:21Emma Grede?

  But you need somebody there to talk to you about business readiness. And a business can only do great things when it's ready to do those great things, right? So you've got to be, you know, you can throw all the ideas you want out, but the acceptance rate is not always going to be there. And so it's so important to have that person beside you and to know you need that person beside you. So that they can say, it's time for this thing now. That's great, but maybe park it for a second.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, and I think that's good. I needed her to keep the trains on the tracks and then also get me to slow down.

• 19:53Emma Grede?

  Slow it down.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  Do one thing well, then we're going to add on another. Then, she always say crawl, walk, run.

• 19:59Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, which was really helpful.

• 20:01Emma Grede?

  It's like a little traffic light system.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  Because I want to bolt.

• 20:04Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  Out the door.

• 20:05Emma Grede?

  For a repeat. Which I just love about you.

• 20:13Speaker 02

  Hi, everyone. This is Kara Swisher.

• 20:14Speaker 03

  And I'm Scott Galloway.

• 20:15Speaker 02

  And we want to tell you about Pivot, our twice-weekly podcast.

• 20:19Speaker 03

  That's right, Kara. What a thrill. It's a chance for us to break down all the big things happening in tech, business, and politics.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  Yes, and I keep you in check so people can make it through each episode, whether it's digging into constant changes in the world of AI and social media, or trying to keep up with whatever the fuck Elon is doing. We're here to give you our take on all of that.

• 20:37Speaker 03

  Every Tuesday and Friday morning, we drop a new episode about some of the major stories of the moment.

• 20:42Speaker 02

  And Scott is a prediction machine, gazing into his crystal ball to tell you about where it's all heading.

• 20:47Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  So if that sounds like a good time for you, especially Mr. That's Right, you can follow us on your favorite podcast app to get new episodes every week.

• 21:05Emma Grede?

  So, fast forward, you create this incredibly dynamic, industry-changing company, and you end up selling the thing for nearly a billion dollars. So, how do you know, or how did you know, when it was the right time to sell?

• 21:20Speaker 01

  Okay, well, timing is everything, as you know.

• 21:22Emma Grede?

  And adjust.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  Market shift, valuations were really high in '21. It was a really crazy time. Media companies had a frothiness about them. And I thought, this is a good time to bring on a partner. And so, we really went into that process. First of all, let me say, I was so grateful for my team, because I had this vision, but it didn't work if I didn't have world-class executives around me. And I got these women to leave their cushy corporate jobs, to do something entrepreneurial. And I said, I'm going to give you equity. And they didn't know what that meant. It could be a zero.

• 22:00Emma Grede?

  Quite often is.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  I know.

• 22:02Emma Grede?

  More often than not.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  But it-

• 22:03Emma Grede?

  But you lot.

• 22:06Speaker 01

  No, and it, and so when we got to the process, another, I'm all about intention, right, and knowing what I wanted from that process. I wanted the best result for my employees, my partners in this, who had believed in my vision and walked with me

• 22:23Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  towards the school. And then I also wanted women in the world to know that their stories mattered and they are valuable. Women's stories are valuable.

• 22:34Emma Grede?

  Mission accomplished.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  And that had never really been emphasized in my lifetime.

• 22:43Emma Grede?

  I mean, it really was.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  It makes me wanna cry.

• 22:44Emma Grede?

  Oh, I could cry because I feel like there's one thing to set out to try to do something. It's another thing to do it. It's another thing to do it and bring everyone along with you. It's another thing to do it, bring everyone along with you, make them a load of money at the same time. And so I think kudos to you, Reece, because you've done something extraordinary with that company. And I've been, you know, in my research, reading a lot about you the last, the last week or so. And I think it's really interesting because obviously, as you said, you sold at the top of the market. There's been a lot of news about your partner and some comments that have been made there. And I think it's kind of interesting because, again, you did what was right for you and for your partners and those women that left those cushy jobs.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  I think about little me starting in this business and going, okay, well, the only opportunity really was to be an actress. But I probably would be more suited to be a producer or a writer or a director.

• 23:40Emma Grede?

  Why so?

• 23:42Speaker 01

  I'm a, I'm a team builder and I'm not an individual, you know? I'm more of a like, let's all get together and make this. And that wasn't something that was possible then.

• 23:53Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  In nineteen ninety, when I started, nobody was talking about female directors. There were no female, there were like three female screenwriters that were successful. When I started in the business, I think it was like two percent of films were directed by women.

• 24:06Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I don't think you can underestimate that because, again, there's so much talk about it now. But it was a very different time then. And, and, and it's, again, so much credit has to go to you. But I do think what I love.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  And Shonda and Mindy.

• 24:20Emma Grede?

  But it's important, you know, you, you, you built this company and you sold the company.

• 24:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:26Emma Grede?

  And I just wonder what that feels like.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  Okay. It feels really good.

• 24:31Emma Grede?

  It does.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  It felt like I was able to do something outside the Hollywood system that had historically been closed door to a lot of different people. So if you tried to have ownership, it was a no. If you tried to be a woman in charge, it was a no. If you were a person of color, forget it. So it just felt like it was breaking a lot of barriers.

• 24:50Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  And I was also saying, there's a new way to do things. You can also look at things from a different vantage point and use things that you have inherently. But maybe, like, I think fame is like this, it's not my favorite part of my life, but I could use it towards my advantage.

• 25:07Emma Grede?

  And you have to.

• 25:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:08Emma Grede?

  Yeah, it made, it made so much sense. Is there any part of you that wishes that you'd kept full control of the company?

• 25:16Speaker 01

  No, I'm really happy with my partnership there. I'm really happy. I've had a great, it's been four years now of still working there and still operating. And it's just been, I've learned even more after selling it.

• 25:30Emma Grede?

  What do you think you've learned since selling the company?

• 25:34Speaker 01

  Well, definitely reporting structures and all that stuff that I didn't understand. I'm not the only person sitting in the board meeting going, when they put up the P and L, I'm like, my brain takes a little nap. Like, I'm gonna just stare at the ceiling for a second. And I know that makes me sound like a dit, but I just know where I'm not additive. And, and I think one of the best things my friend Sarah Blakely always says is like, don't, don't try to be something you're not. She tried to move into it, right?

• 26:06Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 26:06Speaker 01

  Don't, they're not, they didn't hire me to be the CFO. I'm not there to crunch numbers.

• 26:13Emma Grede?

  Absolutely not. And you don't need to be all things. Like, that's what I learned, I think, so early in my business journey, because I would walk into these board meetings and I'd feel like everything was on me. It's like, no, that's why you have a CFO. That's why you have a data person. Like, I am not that. And it's so important to learn to lean into your strengths. And I think that all of the great business leaders we know, they happen to be really good at a handful of things. And the rest you have to outsource. It's totally fine.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  But didn't you find as you built your companies, you, you start to absorb it, like as osmosis? You sit in enough meetings. Now I feel completely.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  I could sit in your board meeting and know exactly what I'd ask and it's it's taken me time, but now I feel like there's this feeling of you can't get in there, right? If you didn't go to business school, you can't start a business and you're never going to be successful and you're never going to sell it. And it's just, that's not true.

• 27:10Emma Grede?

  It's just not true. It's just not true. Well, that's partly one of the reasons.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  My friends Sarah Blakely, Whitney Wolfherd, and myself, we were all looking at each other one day and we were at one of these conferences.

• 27:18Emma Grede?

  Look at us!

• 27:19Speaker 01

  You know, you were probably there too. We're on and we just sat there and we're like, did you go to business school? She's like, no. Did you go to business school?

• 27:25Emma Grede?

  No. Well, you know what it does? It gives you, listen, I think we all learn really differently. I am like super dyslexic and I learn very specifically because of that. And so I think that there's all different routes to take. And one of the main reasons I wanted to start this podcast is to show some of those ways and actually to show the exceptionality that comes from different people and different ways of thinking because it takes all sorts. And so I really just enjoy that what you bring is going to be very different to what I bring and with this room for all of it.

• 27:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think we need people who are out of the box thinkers.

• 28:03Emma Grede?

  Yeah, we do.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  To insert themselves in different ways and, you know, and if you look around your company and you don't have an out of the box thinker, you're kind of at a disadvantage.

• 28:12Emma Grede?

  Oh, you sure are at disadvantage. So we had Tracy Ellis Ross on this show.

• 28:16Speaker 01

  Oh, I love her.

• 28:18Emma Grede?

  I mean, she spoke so highly of you. She said that you give the best money advice. So I was like, apparently so. I was like, she'd ask, I'm gonna ask her.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  I am called the treasurer in some groups.

• 28:28Emma Grede?

  You are? I'm like, yes, let's hear more about that.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  Guys, how are we making revenue and how are we allocating it?

• 28:34Emma Grede?

  So what's the one thing that every woman needs to know about money, do you think?

• 28:38Speaker 01

  Oh my God, where do I start? One thing?

• 28:40Emma Grede?

  Well, go on, give us it all.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, I learned about money from doing things wrong.

• 28:46Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 28:47Speaker 01

  I don't know a woman, Emma, I do not know a woman who doesn't have a disaster financial story in her past.

• 28:55Emma Grede?

  Facts.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  Whether it's her, her best friend, her sister, her mom, her grandma, her auntie. She lost all her money. Or she got divorced and she got stuck with the bill. Or whatever financial debt. So much debt. And so I listen to every podcast on finances. I am so interested in financial wellness for women. And just also, a lot of what we learn is one course, three days in high school. We're lucky if you get three months.

• 29:25Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  And that was the end of my financial learning. And then I became this woman, I was making money and I was a young mom and I did not save correctly. I'm in fine, I'm fine.

• 29:38Emma Grede?

  What do you mean you're fine? You're not like.

• 29:40Speaker 01

  Fine, I'm great.

• 29:41Emma Grede?

  You're just like, are you not rolling in it like now? Like you're fine.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  I didn't invest properly. I'm not, not saying that it wasn't. I'm completely fine and, and, and I did well, but I could have done amazing if I had learned a few things. And a lot of them are mindset.

• 29:58Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. About saving, about the steadiness of the stock market and index funds and diversifying your portfolio. And making sure that you're looking at treasuries and you're looking at bonds and yields. And things that are pretty simple if somebody says them to you in a. Like if you're a visual person, you see a visual chart. I'm a visual person, so every time I talk to people about finances.

• 30:22Emma Grede?

  Laid out.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  I need it laid out and I want cute colors.

• 30:25Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  I'm just being honest.

• 30:27Emma Grede?

  Notes.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  I want a pleasing palette and a pie chart. Thanks.

• 30:32Emma Grede?

  Sam, right. We know what your business managers are doing. Making this very aesthetically pleasing presentation.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  Like, can somebody do the pie chart for Reese?

• 30:41Emma Grede?

  But I love that you say that because it is all pretty simple. But again, we're not always having those conversations and sharing the information. What's the best piece of money advice you think you've been given?

• 30:50Speaker 01

  Don't get into debt. Do everything you can to not get into debt. And pay off those credit cards or don't spend the money like it's yours. It's not yours, girlfriend.

• 31:02Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  And that was a really good piece of advice. Don't ever let somebody control you with money. Somebody says, I'll take care of it and I'll take care of you and I'll take care of this. That person could leave, that person can hurt you. You always keep your job. Your job is your life insurance. My mom used to always say that to me. And my mom went through some tough stuff in a marriage with finances. Really tough stuff.

• 31:27Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  And so did my grandma, not in the marriage, but in like a family structure. I have this past of women not being taken care of financially. And so I think.

• 31:39Emma Grede?

  Me too.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  Right? And as a little girl.

• 31:42Emma Grede?

  It scars you, like literally, it's living inside me.

• 31:46Speaker 01

  So, so deeply. And that's why I have a passion for helping women understand and also demystifying it, you know?

• 31:54Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I feel like the demystifying piece is really, really important. Do you, are you the type of person that looks after everything yourself? Or have you kind of outsourced all of that to a team at this point?

• 32:03Speaker 01

  I have outsourcing, but there's frequent check-ins.

• 32:06Emma Grede?

  Same.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  Weekly.

• 32:07Emma Grede?

  I'm the same. I like to have enough of that, you know, it's like one hand's on it all the time. Like I'm happy to let the experts be experting, but I need to like, I need it there.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah, I need it there. And then I also need checks and balances. I need to diversify things so that everything's not in one investment or one savings account.

• 32:28Emma Grede?

  Yeah. But that's it. That comes, again, I think that comes from your upbringing. It's like, if nobody teaches you that, you don't know. And you're just like, okay, the money sits all here and it's safe. But it's like, it might be safe, but it's not growing. It's not doing anything for you.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  Right, right. And most people don't live in a way that savings is even part of their life. Okay, so I'm, I'm very realistic about that.

• 32:49Emma Grede?

  Yes, you have to be.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  With my mom and my grandma always saying to me, how many savings? You know, they did have, my mom has retirement. She worked her whole life doing three and four jobs, including being in the military and being a nurse and working at a state university. But you have to think ahead and you have to think about saving as helping your future self.

• 33:11Emma Grede?

  Oh, yes, absolutely.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  What you don't spend today, you're saving for your future self. You're saving for sixty-five-year-old Emma who doesn't want to have to worry about the gas bill.

• 33:22Emma Grede?

  Yes, yes.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I want to relax as an old lady.

• 33:25Emma Grede?

  Yeah, me too. Eventually at some point, no?

• 33:28Speaker 01

  I want to have a glass of wine and sit on a porch.

• 33:31Emma Grede?

  A porch, I want to come on that porch.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  We're just going to sit there and tell our stories.

• 33:36Emma Grede?

  Talk shit about all the like, you know.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  We're going to travel where we want to go.

• 33:40Emma Grede?

  Oh.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  And our cute kids are going to be there. Oh my God, we're going to have the best time.

• 33:44Emma Grede?

  They could be looking after us.

• 33:56Emma Grede?

  I love that you say that so much is about mindset, because I'm somebody that believes that mindset is everything. And so I want to talk to you a little bit about your mindset and also rees and leadership. Because you've clearly had to be, and you've become an excellent leader to get to where you are. Do you have like, is there a leadership or a business philosophy that you have? How do you think about how you come into a room? How you lead people? Or is it even something that you think about?

• 34:28Speaker 01

  I wasn't always a leader. I was part of a group. I never in high school ran for student office. I never wanted to be the person who raised their hand to run anything.

• 34:36Emma Grede?

  That's crazy, because I think of you so as like, like head of the school, student president.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  No, that was just a character I played in a movie once.

• 34:43Emma Grede?

  Oh damn, is that where I got that from?

• 34:47Speaker 01

  I'm not Tracy Flick.

• 34:48Emma Grede?

  Shit.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  I'm not at all. So when my company came around, I'd had a lot of group dynamics. Filmmaking is a collaborative art. So we work with groups of 150 to 200 people per movie. And we're all working in concert to the same idea. And so I knew when I started my company, I wanted to have that same feeling. But I knew I had to be the director. And the director, the most successful directors I've ever worked with have very clear vision. They also don't micromanage people who are very good at their jobs. So you hire the best and let them do their thing. But keep reminding people core values, core values. So it's really important when you begin your company

• 35:32Speaker 01

  to do that core values exercise. Ours at Hills and Shine are optimism, humor, storytelling, a do it yourself culture, where nobody's above any one thing or below any one thing. It's not hierarchical. And so they're defined. And we can always go back and they're on the wall. So in case you forget, they're right there. I think one thing I always say, and I said this to my little kids, it came from motherhood. And you know, when you're like about to cross the street with your kids, you're like, okay, walk quickly, directly to the door of the grocery store. We're not wandering around. We're not walking in circles. We're not wandering off. Walk directly. And so I started saying to my kids when they were little, walk with purpose in the direction you're going.

• 36:14Emma Grede?

  Oh.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  And so when I started the company. I extrapolated that out to walk with purpose, right? We're walking towards a purpose of greater storytelling for women, greater recognition for female filmmakers and artists and authors. But also you start to notice people walk in the same direction with you.

• 36:34Emma Grede?

  Oh, yeah.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  Especially when you have purpose.

• 36:36Emma Grede?

  And especially when you have that level of clarity. Because I think one of the biggest jobs that you have as a CEO is to constantly reinforce those values, right? It's like, you know, as companies invariably do, hopefully, they get bigger, more people come on board, and you need to be that beacon that tells everybody where we're going. But I heard you, well, maybe I've read in an article that you say you have a bit of a problem with the word power. And when I speak to you, it's so clear that you are incredibly powerful and incredibly directional. Do you still have that in you?

• 37:09Speaker 01

  Power is just a hard word for me to handle because I think for years in Hollywood, I watched the abuse of power.

• 37:17Emma Grede?

  Oh, yeah.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  And power corrupting. And also people assuming power when they hadn't really done the work to have the power. And I watched a lot of women defer to powerful individuals that didn't really know what they were doing or talking about. So it's hard. Power feels like an empty word to me. I think.

• 37:39Emma Grede?

  Are you more comfortable with leadership?

• 37:40Speaker 01

  Leadership is a better word. Yeah, I think we have a lot of great leadership at Hello Sunshine.

• 37:47Emma Grede?

  Starting with you.

• 37:49Speaker 01

  Starting with me, but my, yeah, my, I really like, I hired a really great.

• 37:53Emma Grede?

  Well, because great leaders don't stay around not a great leader. So you have to be, basically. I'm saying that you are.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Well.

• 37:59Emma Grede?

  Because you wouldn't have that many incredible people in that company if it wasn't super solid at the top.

• 38:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I'm, and I'm very, I recognize their efforts. And I really try, and I hope I do a good job of this, of constantly telling them I appreciate them and I appreciate their efforts. Even if something doesn't work the right way, I also appreciate when people take accountability for mistakes. I appreciate when people don't triangulate as a company or talk about another person, that we work together on problems. But Emma, I have learned an entire world of information in. Nine years that I've been doing this.

• 38:37Emma Grede?

  Have you, um.

• 38:39Speaker 01

  And have you failed? Have I failed?

• 38:41Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  Well, I would say, you know, when, when I had the company and I'd done, I had three Oscar nominations and eight Emmys for Big Little Lies and I couldn't do anything but break even, that was a fail. And I thought, there's something wrong here. That's when I called my friend and he, and he helped me come up with a business plan.

• 39:00Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 39:00Speaker 01

  And that's when I hired Sarah Hardin. But have we had fails? Sure. We've had some stuff inside the company that I feel like we tried things, didn't work.

• 39:10Emma Grede?

  Just didn't work.

• 39:11Speaker 01

  Certain verticals.

• 39:12Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Were doing really well five years ago, not doing as well right now. That's okay. I'd rather us try. But I'm really proud of the brand that we've built because I think it stands for something and consumers know what it means.

• 39:25Emma Grede?

  Oh, yes, they do.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  You say Hello Sunshine, people are like, I know what that is.

• 39:28Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  I mean, I wouldn't say everybody, but I would, you know, it's interesting. I went and spoke at a business school last year and all the young women ran up to me and they were like, oh my God, I love your company. I love your company. And all the guys were still sitting down. They were like, what company? No, she was an actress.

• 39:47Emma Grede?

  Ah, and you were like.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  And they were like, you don't know about our company? A lot of guys don't know about Hello Sunshine.

• 39:55Emma Grede?

  Well.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  So.

• 39:56Emma Grede?

  In fairness, it, it wasn't made for them.

• 39:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, it wasn't.

• 39:59Emma Grede?

  They have everything else.

• 40:00Speaker 01

  That's true. But women consume more media than men. Women control more consumer spending. And I thought we need to do better for women. They need to have better offerings and see themselves in movies and television shows. The other unexpected outcome of the company that I really didn't know would happen is the financial gain for the authors. And that is a big touchstone for me because I've had, I've gotten letters, text messages, it'd be like a picture of a key. And I'll say, what is that, honey? And she'll say, I was able to pay off my mortgage and buy this. I own my own home now.

• 40:38Emma Grede?

  Game over, no?

• 40:40Speaker 01

  Went and sent me an acceptance letter to a college that I paid for my son to go to college. Where he's the first kid in my, my family to go to college.

• 40:48Emma Grede?

  We're gonna need more tissues.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 40:50Emma Grede?

  Is there anything that could make you more proud and happy? I mean, surely not, no?

• 40:55Speaker 01

  No.

• 40:56Emma Grede?

  No, absolutely not.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  And these people are so deserving and, you know, and the Helleson Shun who's sold over eight hundred million dollars of books? Eight hundred million dollars of books?

• 41:08Emma Grede?

  I don't even know where to go with that.

• 41:08Speaker 01

  We don't even make any money off the book sales.

• 41:11Emma Grede?

  What?

• 41:11Speaker 01

  We don't make any money off the books we do.

• 41:13Emma Grede?

  Do you want a tissue?

• 41:14Speaker 01

  No.

• 41:14Emma Grede?

  No, she's good.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna cry anymore, it's my own story.

• 41:17Emma Grede?

  I'm crying.

• 41:20Emma Grede?

  Wait a minute, what do you mean?

• 41:21Speaker 01

  You don't like care.

• 41:22Emma Grede?

  Wait a minute, what do you mean? You don't make any money off the books?

• 41:24Speaker 01

  The book sales, no. So if we option the book and turn it into a movie, obviously we do.

• 41:29Emma Grede?

  But I always imagined that you, that there'd be some kind of reciprocal.

• 41:34Speaker 01

  No.

• 41:35Emma Grede?

  Back end royalty.

• 41:37Speaker 01

  Nope. We just market them and we pick. I mean, it's a big deal, the whole process, picking twelve books a year. And we market them and we, our whole team is behind it. And we have live events and we get people together and book clubs. My big vision was, how do we take the book club out of your grandma's living room?

• 41:58Emma Grede?

  Oh, yeah, you sure did it.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  Because there's this great quote by this guy who just won the Pulitzer, his name is Purcell Everett. He said, I think the most subversive thing you can do right now is belong to a book club.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  Because you're socializing ideas.

• 42:14Emma Grede?

  Yeah, totally, absolutely. I mean, listen, I'm a huge reader and it is probably, you know, it's up there with my biggish pleasures in life to get a new book.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  I'm so curious.

• 42:25Emma Grede?

  I read so much. The problem with me is that I, right now, I'm reading on tyranny, so let's just know. But I, I go back. Um, I go back to things like over and over again, but I'm kind of eclectic in my book taste. And, you know, I just feel like it, it's so good for the. World that you do that, that you give this like other option to all the media and all the noise that's out there. Cause there's something that's so good for us about when you can like dive into prose and get your head into something that you hold in your hands. I don't like

• 42:59Speaker 01

  Oh, it's good for your, it's good for your mental health.

• 43:02Emma Grede?

  It's good for everything.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  It's good for your memory.

• 43:04Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 43:04Speaker 01

  It's good to change your neurological system just right before bed.

• 43:08Emma Grede?

  It's good for your family. Like I have reading time in my home and it's like quiet with those one, two, three, four kids.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 43:15Emma Grede?

  But they love it. And it's like you're together, but you don't have to talk to them.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  Shh.

• 43:21Speaker 01

  I love reading to my kids when they were little.

• 43:23Emma Grede?

  It's the sweetest.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  And my grandmother read to me and it was just, it was a big, important cozy time in my life.

• 43:34Speaker 04

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• 44:03Speaker 05

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• 45:03Emma Grede?

  I want to go back to just understanding the things that you've learned because obviously you've had a company that's been sold, you've had a company that wasn't profitable. When you think about the big takeouts and what you'd like to people to understand, like what does that look like for you in having built and sold a company? What do you want people to know?

• 45:23Speaker 01

  I want people to know that this didn't happen when I was 21 or 22, right out of college. It took a long time to figure out how I was going to take all this knowledge about my business and all the relationships I've built and pivot into something that was more entrepreneurial. That I had an opportunity to start a company at 25 and I didn't know what I was doing. So sometimes the best things that happen in your life and when you get to boss up is when you've actually done the hard work of being every version of every person on set, you know, or in your business. You need to know your business inside and out. You need to know how it makes money, how it loses money, why you're valuable, why you're not valuable, how you can add value.

• 46:07Speaker 01

  If your business is taking a dip, you better know why. Where is the future of your business? Where's it going? So I read a ton and I try to keep up. Right now, I'm just buried in AI going, what's happening? And I'm talking to people and I'm meeting people who are tons of startups around AI.

• 46:26Emma Grede?

  But you're going out of your way to immerse yourself so that you can understand?

• 46:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:30Emma Grede?

  And bring that into your business?

• 46:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. Bring it into my, well, bring it into my business and also help bridge the gap for people, whether that's for consumers or for my like-minded girlfriends who have their own businesses. We're all sitting here going, okay, what are best practices? Which companies are you using? How do we protect ourselves? Okay, well, how do we harness this for the greater good? How do we do this ethically without putting real artists out of work?

• 46:56Emma Grede?

  It feels like you're still super ambitious, are you?

• 47:00Speaker 01

  I don't know how to not be ambitious. It's a big part of my identity. How about you?

• 47:10Emma Grede?

  Sorry.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:11Emma Grede?

  Sorry.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  Could you stop?

• 47:14Emma Grede?

  No, I feel like when we're sixty five and on that porch, we'll be cooking something. You know, it'll still be going.

• 47:20Speaker 01

  We'll be like inventing the new supplements or something.

• 47:24Emma Grede?

  Totally, yeah. Like solving all our almonds.

• 47:29Emma Grede?

  No, and I feel like that's part of, you know, it's so much part of my identity at this point. And I look at you and I feel like once you've done something, you, you know, you've, you've proven to yourself that you can see a problem, you can solve a problem, you can make things so good for everybody around you. Like, why would you not look at other things? Why would you not continue to be expansive? Like, it might be in a different way, it might not necessarily be another company, but you are someone who has really made a big difference. And I don't understand why you would not wanna do that again.

• 48:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I also think sometimes there's a bigger, higher purpose to you being that person. You are who you are here. You are meant to be this person right now. You're, you're meant to be this, this woman that people look up to and really listen to. And you're fulfilling part of your life purpose. And I think if something else comes my way or I know about it or, like, I just wrote my first thriller. I never thought I'd write a book.

• 48:32Emma Grede?

  I can't believe this. They literally told me, I feel like it was just like swooped in there at the last minute. Uh, it's called Gone Before Goodbye, right?

• 48:41Speaker 01

  Gone Before Goodbye, yeah.

• 48:42Emma Grede?

  Is this your first book?

• 48:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's my first book.

• 48:44Emma Grede?

  Exciting.

• 48:45Speaker 01

  And again, partnering with a master, Harlan Coben, who is just an incredible thriller writer, who's wrote, written ninety million, like, sold over ninety million books.

• 48:54Emma Grede?

  What made you wanna pivot again? First of all, ninety million books?

• 48:58Speaker 01

  He's sold so many books.

• 48:59Emma Grede?

  Wow.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  And he's really big in so many countries. The book is being published in twenty-two different countries.

• 49:04Emma Grede?

  That's not.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  And they sent me all the covers, I was like, what? Um, but I'm really proud of it.

• 49:10Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  And it has a great woman at the center of it, who is

• 49:13Emma Grede?

  Of course it does.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  Kind of re, I think it's reinventing the thriller genre and put it like, why isn't there a female James Bond? Or Jason Bourne?

• 49:22Emma Grede?

  No.

• 49:23Speaker 01

  Can you think of one? I'm sure there is. But I thought international world and this woman who has this really distinct skill set. And I thought, I've always just come in to be in someone else's vision.

• 49:36Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  Right, my whole creative life. And I thought, what if I build the whole world?

• 49:41Emma Grede?

  What if you did?

• 49:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. They did.

• 49:44Emma Grede?

  I mean, unreal. You're gonna try.

• 49:46Speaker 01

  We'll see.

• 49:47Emma Grede?

  I mean, how incredible. It really, really is incredible what you've done and what you've built. And I feel like you will inspire an entire generation to think that they can actually do something really, really meaningful and have it make the difference in so many people's lives. Because when I think about what you've done, that's the most impressive part of it, that actually it's touched so many people. And you've done it with grace and with intention and you've touched people, you've entertained us while you're doing it. You sold it, you made the money. I mean, it's just like so many great things. But the the best part about it is that people will watch you and go, I could do that.

• 50:30Speaker 01

  I hope so. I hope there's so many more Hello Sunshines. I really want some little girl right now to be hearing this podcast and go, I can do that. If Reese can do that, I can do that.

• 50:42Emma Grede?

  Oh, she will.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 50:44Emma Grede?

  A million percents.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  I'm so happy.

• 50:45Emma Grede?

  I love that you're here. Thank you so much.

• 50:47Speaker 01

  This has been so nice. Thank you, Emma.

• 50:49Emma Grede?

  Like heaven to speak to you because you're the like least disappointing person on the planet.

• 50:55Speaker 01

  Wait, do you have disappointing people on your podcast?

• 50:57Emma Grede?

  Well, you know, you run into them every now and again. I'm not gonna lie.

• 51:00Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 51:01Emma Grede?

  Maybe not on a smile with Emma Grede, but you know, not everybody is as cute and sweet as they seem on the screen.

• 51:07Speaker 01

  People, you're doing a great job because it's also a different skill.

• 51:11Emma Grede?

  Oh, it's a totally different skill. They hate me because I don't do any of what's on the cards. They're like, that's not what you're supposed to say. All right, let's move on to rapid fire. What is the first thing you do when you wake up?

• 51:22Speaker 01

  Feed the dog. Oh. And then make coffee and then wake up my son for school.

• 51:26Emma Grede?

  In that order?

• 51:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:28Emma Grede?

  I love that. Last thing you do before you go to bed?

• 51:31Speaker 01

  Kiss my son goodnight and take a bath and then go to bed. And I read, I read in the bath.

• 51:36Emma Grede?

  You read in the bath?

• 51:37Speaker 01

  Or I listen to podcasts in the bath.

• 51:40Emma Grede?

  What podcast are you listening to, Ruth?

• 51:41Speaker 01

  Inspire with Emma Grede.

• 51:45Emma Grede?

  What are you currently aspiring to in your business life?

• 51:49Speaker 01

  To help women bridge this technology gap. We're in a really interesting time. I want to help women bridge the gap.

• 51:56Emma Grede?

  I think that's a great and very noble cause. And what about in your personal life?

• 52:01Speaker 01

  To have hobbies that I don't turn into businesses.

• 52:06Emma Grede?

  Okay. Good luck. I want to know what kind of hobby are you gonna have?

• 52:10Speaker 01

  Well, right now I make chocolates.

• 52:12Emma Grede?

  Oh, that's gorge.

• 52:14Speaker 01

  It's really fun.

• 52:15Emma Grede?

  Are we packaging these chocolates?

• 52:17Speaker 01

  Listen, did I just say? Now Emma's trying to turn it into a business.

• 52:21Emma Grede?

  Oh, shit. Okay, sorry. I just took it to a business. Oh, woman of glass shop. With a ribbon or something. I mean, you're in Nashville. You've got a...

• 52:28Speaker 01

  It's really fun.

• 52:29Emma Grede?

  No? Amazing. And what is a book that changed your life?

• 52:32Speaker 01

  So many books changed my... The Measure of Our Success by Marion Wright Edelman. It's a beautiful book. And she was this activist who marched with Martin Luther King, and she started the Children's Defenders. She's probably the foremost advocate for children's rights in America. And she wrote this letter to her sons on their 18th birthday about how to be a good person. Check it out. It's powerful.

• 52:56Emma Grede?

  Immediately going to check that out.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:58Emma Grede?

  What is something that you valued when you started out that you no longer value?

• 53:04Speaker 01

  Other people's acceptance. I mean, it's nice.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  It's nice when people are rooting for you, but it's okay if they're not.

• 53:11Emma Grede?

  And what is something that you value deeply now that you didn't when you first started?

• 53:15Speaker 01

  Understanding other people's intentions.

• 53:19Emma Grede?

  Thank you, my darling. This was excellent. You're the best.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  Oh, that was fun. Thank you, Emma.

• 53:29Emma Grede?

  If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Our executive producers are Corinne, Gillian Fisher, Derek Brown, and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung Kaiser, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kirk Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado and Arnie Agassi. Social media by Olivia Homan.

• 54:14Emma Grede?

  Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company and WME, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Schaff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson-Rose, Tim Meeke, Shaun Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemagreed. Greed is spelt G-R-E-D-E. That's aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E with emagreed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emagreed.me.