Nathan Lane

Actor Nathan Lane feels it’s about f***king time he was asked to be Conan O’Brien’s friend. Nathan sits down with Conan to discuss his storied career from Broadway to iconic film roles in The Birdcage and The Lion King, honoring actress Linda Lavin in his new series Mid-Century Modern, and being tested for vertigo at the Dizzy Institute. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com. Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: (669) 587-2847.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Conan O'Brien?

  Who do you shop for first on the holidays, Sona? Was it, do you shop for the kids or do you shop for Tac?

• 0:06Speaker 01

  My kids.

• 0:07Conan O'Brien?

  Okay.

• 0:07Speaker 01

  Or Oki.

• 0:08Conan O'Brien?

  You gotta get them your stuff.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Or my dog.

• 0:09Conan O'Brien?

  And then your husband is last. Well, guess what? It's that time of year. You feel that, you smell that, uh, that cinnamon cider in the air? Do you smell that?

• 0:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:19Conan O'Brien?

  And you see pumpkins around, people buying turkeys. A little early to buy a turkey. Doesn't matter. Holidays? I would say it's just around the corner, but that's a cliche. It's, uh, very nearby in the cupboard. Well, guess what? Amazon delivers joy with low prices on the gifts you want even this early in the season. So get ahead of the season. Shop early gifts, top picks, holiday decor, and advent calendars at low prices. Get ahead, start on holiday gifting with Amazon's low prices. Shop now at amazon.com/holiday.

• 0:52Speaker 02

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• 1:26Speaker 03

  Hi, my name is Nathan Lane and I feel

• 1:32Speaker 03

  it's about fucking time I was asked to be Conan O'Brien's friend.

• 2:01Conan O'Brien?

  Hey there, welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, joined here by Sona Movsesian and Matt Gourley. And, uh, man, things are getting heated in here because Matt Gourley just made a suggestion. And you said, uh, because we were trying to think of what do we talk about here upfront?

• 2:18Speaker 04

  Well, let's go back a little further and preface it with that you, you always want to have something nailed down that we're going to talk about. And Sona and I are a little bit more,

• 2:25Conan O'Brien?

  Lucy goosey.

• 2:26Speaker 04

  Frankly chill.

• 2:27Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, exactly. I guess the difference would be you two are always saying, let's just talk about anything, because in the podcast world, you can literally just talk about anything. And hey, man, that's what happened, man. We laid out what was happening in the moment, which was nothing. And isn't that great? And everyone gets a podcasty award. Podcasty. I come from a different world of thinking about things and planning them and writing them beforehand on such shows as The Simpsons, Saturday Night Live. Boring.

• 2:59Speaker 04

  Never heard of them.

• 3:00Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, any hoots. My point is, I was taking a second to try and think of something. And you said,

• 3:07Speaker 04

  After a long pause.

• 3:08Conan O'Brien?

  After a long pause. Yeah. No one's chiming in. And you said, well, it's windy out here in LA.

• 3:14Speaker 04

  Pretty stupid.

• 3:14Conan O'Brien?

  And, um, yeah, but no one attacked you for it. We just sort of was like, nah, not that. That's not it. And then Blay got upset. And Blay, you said,

• 3:26Speaker 05

  Well, listen, I think that I,

• 3:29Conan O'Brien?

  You always like,

• 3:30Speaker 05

  I want this podcast to be the best it could be. I, what I said was, he said, it's windy out. And you said, no. And then you didn't say anything else.

• 3:37Conan O'Brien?

  I didn't put him down. I didn't go after him.

• 3:39Speaker 05

  That's right. You just let it pass.

• 3:40Conan O'Brien?

  You leaned in because you'll sometimes make suggestions.

• 3:44Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 3:45Conan O'Brien?

  And it's a little bit like Whack-a-Mole. This gray-haired, gray-bearded Blay sticks up.

• 3:50Speaker 05

  Whack-a-mole?

• 3:50Conan O'Brien?

  Whack-a-mole where all the moles are Blay. And I,

• 3:53Speaker 05

  Whack-a-Blay.

• 3:54Conan O'Brien?

  Whack-a-Blay. And I just, I bash you down. And sometimes I go after you for a while.

• 3:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was like, sometimes.

• 4:00Conan O'Brien?

  But you said, if I had said that,

• 4:03Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 4:03Conan O'Brien?

  You'd have gone after me.

• 4:05Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 4:05Conan O'Brien?

  And I had said,

• 4:06Speaker 04

  That right before I said, I literally had the thought of, I think this is a suggestion Blay would make. And I don't mean that in a bad way.

• 4:12Speaker 05

  Well, what other way could you possibly make it?

• 4:14Speaker 04

  Well, I still said it, didn't I?

• 4:15Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 4:16Speaker 05

  Oh, thanks.

• 4:17Conan O'Brien?

  No, that's a real vote of confidence.

• 4:18Speaker 04

  No, I didn't mean it that way.

• 4:19Speaker 05

  I still said it, didn't I?

• 4:20Conan O'Brien?

  But I pointed out that the difference is in presentation.

• 4:24Speaker 04

  Right.

• 4:24Conan O'Brien?

  I pointed out that what Gourley did is Gourley quietly went, well, we can talk about how it's windy out. And he has, it's a little dry.

• 4:32Speaker 04

  He undersold it.

• 4:33Conan O'Brien?

  He undersold it. He's back from the mic and I'm like, yeah, right, we're not going to do that. And I pointed out to you, Blay, that when you make a suggestion, although you have a naturally loud speaking voice, you will never be lost in the desert, ever.

• 4:45Speaker 04

  That's true.

• 4:45Conan O'Brien?

  And I will say, and hold it, I'm not done, I'm not done. You don't get the speaking stick ever again. So what you do is you have a loud voice anyway, you lean into these, are these Heifel Vasa microphones? What are they?

• 5:01Speaker 04

  Heifel Vasa?

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Is that a brand?

• 5:04Conan O'Brien?

  Are they Steibenshaus?

• 5:05Speaker 04

  Dynamic.

• 5:05Conan O'Brien?

  Dynamic? So let's get the Heifel Vessos, they're better. These are very, very sensitive microphones.

• 5:11Speaker 04

  Cardioid.

• 5:11Conan O'Brien?

  And what you do, Blay, is you take your whole body, you're a large man, a large, powerful man, and you lean in and you almost deep throat the microphone.

• 5:22Conan O'Brien?

  And you would have said, hey, we can talk about how it's windy out. And people listening in their cars would be crashing on the 405, the 10, all across this great nation, cars would be going off, you know what I mean?

• 5:39Speaker 04

  But this is what makes Blay magical, is you are able to do this open hearted. I had to come at it as like, I know I'm going to get hit for this. That's what I meant. Like, I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna get hit, so I had to.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  He's confident about it.

• 5:49Speaker 04

  And I have to say, I think, Blay, you're the MVP of this entire place and you make this place go around.

• 5:54Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, and can I say something else, Blay, in your favor? No, I think it's a great.

• 5:58Speaker 05

  Pointing at me when they, you don't need to point at me when you're addressing, yeah, stop pointing at me.

• 6:01Conan O'Brien?

  It's a, this is.

• 6:02Speaker 05

  It's very aggressive.

• 6:03Conan O'Brien?

  This is a compliment, but you have an unearned confidence.

• 6:08Speaker 04

  No, no.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  That's not a compliment.

• 6:12Conan O'Brien?

  No, no, no, it's not true.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  I don't think you know what a compliment means.

• 6:16Conan O'Brien?

  A con, wait a minute, isn't a compliment where you really get someone?

• 6:19Speaker 01

  No, no, a compliment is a nice thing you say about someone.

• 6:23Speaker 04

  You don't qualify it, you just compliment.

• 6:24Conan O'Brien?

  Well, anyway, you are, every time you light the fuse and the TNT blows up in your face, it's a new, it's like it's happening for the first time. And you're just like, this should go well. Blay, you're the coyote who's never learned. You've opened up 700,000 Acme boxes.

• 6:42Speaker 05

  Charlie Brown in the football.

• 6:43Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, Charlie Brown in the football, and you just keep going for it.

• 6:45Speaker 05

  I don't know if you've ever, if you've ever said this on mic, but you did say once, you're like, I love it when, and you said this completely honestly, I love it when you come running through the door with a wet fart, and which, which, and I can't.

• 6:58Conan O'Brien?

  I don't know what that means even now.

• 6:59Speaker 05

  I don't, why? Like, hey, everybody, and then just, look at me, and then just.

• 7:04Conan O'Brien?

  I never said that.

• 7:05Speaker 05

  You did say, no, you didn't make a noise. What I'm trying to say is.

• 7:10Conan O'Brien?

  Didn't say that, that's coming out.

• 7:10Speaker 05

  You did say the wet.

• 7:11Conan O'Brien?

  It's out.

• 7:12Speaker 05

  You did say the wet fart. He's gonna take it out, you are, you're gonna take it out. Don't worry, boss, I'll definitely take it out.

• 7:18Conan O'Brien?

  Just drive and drop it, control alt 7.

• 7:19Speaker 05

  All I wanna say here is, all I wanna say here is, if it's a, I, first of all, I disagree it's about presentation, I do think there is.

• 7:28Conan O'Brien?

  Do you think your presentation could be better?

• 7:29Speaker 05

  Yes. Let's try it. But, but, can I just? Try it. Pitch windy the way you think. Well, now I'm self-conscious about it. It's okay, you got it, you got this. Hey, guys, what should we talk about? Do it. You guys just sit over here, the lights are, you know, I, I feel like I have to lean in to, to be, like, to be hurt.

• 7:44Conan O'Brien?

  You don't.

• 7:45Speaker 05

  You don't.

• 7:45Conan O'Brien?

  To be, to be hurt or heard?

• 7:47Speaker 05

  You don't.

• 7:47Conan O'Brien?

  Cause you do get hurt. Uh, you don't, it's a microphone.

• 7:51Speaker 05

  Psychologically being, psychologically being back here, don't you think? I've been back there, it's true. Eduardo, back me up, you, don't you think we have to lean in to be part of the conversation? Is that not true? Eduardo never yelled. Yeah, I, I, uh.

• 8:02Conan O'Brien?

  Listen to that voice.

• 8:04Speaker 05

  Listen to that voice. And can I say something? I'm gonna back up my boy here, I'm gonna say this.

• 8:08Conan O'Brien?

  But when you speak, Eduardo, I am like, oh my god, I wanna hear what Eduardo has to say, because he has, he always says, you've got a beautiful voice, you're very calm, you're centered, you're not, your whole tone of voice is not begging for acceptance.

• 8:26Speaker 06

  I'm gonna back up my boy here and I'm gonna say I admire, I think he's brave. I think he knows.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  No one can compliment me. No one knows what a compliment means.

• 8:38Conan O'Brien?

  No, no, he is brave, like a lemming is brave. A lemming that just throws itself mindlessly off a cliff. Those brave lemmings.

• 8:46Speaker 06

  To his point, being in the shadows over here, yes, you, you, you don't know, it's like a game of jump rope. You don't know when to jump in, when to jump out, and you don't wanna trip and be the idiot that, you know, stumbles upon the rope. He, he knows that you're probably gonna shit on him for his ideas, but he still will pitch them anyway. So I think he's self-aware. But that's why I say he's brave. So, you know.

• 9:09Conan O'Brien?

  All I know is that the most powerful salvo in the world was lobbed at you and it bounced off of you, which is Harrison Ford told you, said, "Shut the fuck up, Blay." And.

• 9:24Speaker 05

  And Tom Hanks.

• 9:25Conan O'Brien?

  And Tom Hanks.

• 9:26Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 9:26Conan O'Brien?

  Both of the most iconic stars of the 20th and 21st century told you to shut the fuck up. And you, it was, it was like watching, uh, someone shoot a spitball at an aircraft carrier. I think we should make you two medals of valor for those that you get to wear, you know? It didn't affect you at all. Anyone else, anyone else would be in a, it would be in the hospital for the rest of their lives if both of those stars had told them to shut the fuck up. That's right.

• 9:53Speaker 05

  This is a really, can we please put on the rap light, for god's sakes? We put the rap light on like.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  Wait, though, are we gonna talk about the wind?

• 10:02Speaker 05

  Shut the fuck up, Soda.

• 10:04Conan O'Brien?

  Shut the fuck up, Soda. All right, my guest today is a Tony Award-winning actor who has starred in such movies as The Producers and The Birdcage. Now you can see him in the new Hulu series Mid-Century Modern. Uh, I'm delighted, he sir, I'm thrilled.

• 10:24Conan O'Brien?

  Nathan Lane, welcome.

• 10:29Conan O'Brien?

  I'm gonna start by saying, there's a moment that I had with you that is very important to me. And you're not gonna be aware of this, but it meant the world to me. And you've done very nice, very many nice things for me over the years, including doing this amazing thing on our final late night show, which was fantastic. You are what the Irish call a mensch. But you, just before we started the podcast, you very sweetly came over and you offered your condolences about my parents passing away last month. And it reminded me of this very special moment in my life when my mother came to town. She didn't come to New York often. She was, you know, pretty much stayed in Boston.

• 11:12Conan O'Brien?

  But she came to town and the biggest thing to do at that time in New York, it was the biggest thing in the world was go and see the producers. And I told my mother, I'm gonna take you to the producers. And my mother couldn't believe it because even in Boston, they knew that this was a huge deal. So we went and we saw the producers. And one of my favorite memories of that night is we saw the producers and my mother was not a, you know, she's from central Massachusetts. She mostly stayed in Boston. She didn't go see Broadway shows. She's now seeing the biggest thing in the history of Broadway. It's you, it's the whole full original cast, Matthew Broderick. I will never forget, at the end of the show, she was doing that clapping. It's not down here, it's up here.

• 11:59Conan O'Brien?

  My mother, who basically looked so much like me, imagine me in a wig, clapping like this. So then, we, we get up and someone very kindly came over and said, would you like to say hello? And I said, well, I'm always shy about those things, but I thought, well, if it's possible. And I said, oh, hi, Nathan. We went backstage, hi, Nathan. And this was the, I mean, literally kings, queens, presidents, everybody would come backstage with the producers every night. And I came over and I said, Nathan, this is my mom. And you said, Mrs. O'Brien. And you gave her this big hug. You acted like it was the biggest thing in the world.

• 12:40Conan O'Brien?

  I, my mother was transported into another realm and may have hastened her death. That was-

• 12:48Conan O'Brien?

  Saying 20 years passed, but I think she could have lived another, she could have lived another five. Um, and so I'm accusing you of murder. No, it is, I had, I don't know why I ruined things. It was the nicest, and I'll never forget it. I'll never, I'll never forget it. It was, it was a beautiful moment and you are, uh, you're, you're, I mean, people know Nathan Lane, the famous person from television, movies, Broadway, but you are a extremely sensitive person, probably to your own detriment. I'm thinking, you know what I mean? You're not a thick-skinned soul and in that moment, I could just see what a lovely, fantastic

• 13:33Conan O'Brien?

  person you are.

• 13:34Speaker 03

  Well, that's, aside from the murder accusation, that was an incredibly kind and moving thing to say. You know, you know, as, as someone who in the public eye, you know, as you, it, you know, especially, you know, when doing a Broadway show eight times a week and people, when people do come back, it is awkward because it, they don't, unless they're theater veterans and they understand the etiquette of no matter what, even if it was a terrible show, you hated it, you say, that was the greatest night of my life and thank you for a wonderful performance and you leave. As opposed to walking in and saying, I have some issues with the play.

• 14:15Conan O'Brien?

  Yes, yes.

• 14:16Speaker 03

  You know, there are those people.

• 14:18Conan O'Brien?

  Right.

• 14:19Speaker 03

  But, um, you have to, I think as you get older, you learn to be gracious and also you have to take the ball and, and say, I'm so glad you're here and, and you fill, you fill in. And then if they're able to say something, that's great, but you make them feel good about what they just experienced. I mean, very often what you want to say is, I wish you were here last night.

• 14:43Speaker 03

  You know, the matinee didn't go so well.

• 14:45Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 14:45Speaker 03

  You know, you've got to make it a positive for them.

• 14:48Conan O'Brien?

  But what's interesting is that what you're doing is you've just done a show where you're giving it all you've got. I mean, um, yes, Matthew was working hard, working hard on that show, but come on. I mean, you're, you're, you're using your instrument in every single possible way. And then I don't think people realize when they come backstage, you're putting on another show for them. You're worried about them. Uh, you're making sure that they get what they need, which is kind of insane, you know?

• 15:21Speaker 03

  Well, you know.

• 15:22Conan O'Brien?

  You should be taken away by helicopters. The minute you're done with a performance.

• 15:27Speaker 03

  Yes. Um, you know, it's that that's a part of the gig.

• 15:31Conan O'Brien?

  Yep.

• 15:32Speaker 03

  You know, and you, and then, you know, yeah, you go off and go to, go to immediately to bed. But, um, yeah, it's, uh, I mean, it's why I, I don't want, I wouldn't want to do it. I don't want to, I wouldn't want to be in the middle of a musical anymore, eight times a week. I, I just, it's for, it's a young man's game. Cause it's just, it's like being the quarterback.

• 15:52Conan O'Brien?

  In my career, I always had a real problem with the transition to, I'll just curl up with a good book.

• 16:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, you can't. Yeah. When you're with that kind of energy. Yeah.

• 16:06Conan O'Brien?

  And so what would, what did you do? Did you have a trick for, because I'm just thinking, I mean, so many Broadway references. I mean, I, I saw you before I even started the late night show, I think. I saw you do laughter on the 23rd floor and I was like, I don't know how he goes to sleep tonight. Like, I don't know how he.

• 16:24Speaker 03

  Well, there, there was just many years of just a lot of drinking that.

• 16:29Conan O'Brien?

  And let's point out there, if you're out there and you have trouble sleeping, drinking is the message we have for you.

• 16:35Speaker 03

  That really helps. Um, you know, I think it's just, look, you, uh, you know, those days when I would, you know, you would go out. You would, you would, if it didn't go well, you would go out and have drinks.

• 16:47Conan O'Brien?

  Yep.

• 16:47Speaker 03

  Or, and if it did go well, you went out and had drinks.

• 16:49Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 16:50Speaker 03

  And, you know, you could get away with it in your youth.

• 16:53Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 16:54Speaker 03

  But that, that changes as you get older. It's, it's, yeah, you just go to bed a little later. It takes a while to come down from all of that.

• 17:01Conan O'Brien?

  I used to go to sleep at 1:32 in the morning.

• 17:05Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 17:05Conan O'Brien?

  And, uh, and yeah, it was, um.

• 17:10Speaker 03

  Wouldn't you, you'd talk to your wife, wouldn't you?

• 17:12Conan O'Brien?

  I wasn't married at the time.

• 17:13Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 17:14Conan O'Brien?

  But I knew who she was going to be, so I'd call her. She'd say, "Who is this?" And I'd say, "It's your future husband, Conan O'Brien." And she would say, "I'm not a fan of that show."

• 17:25Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 17:25Conan O'Brien?

  "He seems needy."

• 17:28Conan O'Brien?

  But, uh, I think what's-

• 17:30Speaker 03

  Remember the one time I saw you, we were at the Angelica Cinema?

• 17:33Conan O'Brien?

  You know what? I know exactly what you're talking about.

• 17:35Speaker 03

  And I was like, it was like seeing your, your teacher, you know, at the supermarket? I was like, "It's Conan, and I can see his legs."

• 17:44Speaker 03

  And you, and you were with this gorgeous woman.

• 17:47Conan O'Brien?

  That's my wife.

• 17:48Speaker 03

  And, uh, and it was so, I, I was happy to see you, but I was like, "This is awkward, because he doesn't have cards, he's not gonna ask me that question where I have a great bet I wrote."

• 17:58Conan O'Brien?

  I thought what was awkward is that I did immediately produce cards. Nathan, I understand you had a funny thing happen at the Forum. Now, tell me, uh, I understand, uh, you have a funny story about avocados. And then I threw to commercial while we were standing, waiting to see a movie. No, I, I, my wife and I, Liza, we ran into you. And it is strange when you see someone outside of the weird, I don't know, bubble, whatever, whatever we live in. We were waiting for the movie to start. I remembered you seemed a little downcast, you know?

• 18:33Speaker 03

  Have we met?

• 18:36Conan O'Brien?

  I thought maybe it's me, like, Nathan's thinking, "Oh, Jesus." And this Conan O'Brien, I can't, I can't do it.

• 18:43Speaker 03

  No.

• 18:43Conan O'Brien?

  But, um-

• 18:44Speaker 03

  I'm sure I got nervous, like, I, "Oh, I, I better be funny," something like that.

• 18:49Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, 'cause there's the high, there's high stakes when you're in a movie lobby.

• 18:54Conan O'Brien?

  But, you know, it's so funny, because I relate, there are many ways in which I think you and I could probably relate.

• 19:02Speaker 03

  As friends?

• 19:03Conan O'Brien?

  As friends, but it's also, uh, I think, uh, we're both Irish, uh, we both, um, come from, we were raised very Catholic, I believe.

• 19:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:14Conan O'Brien?

  Uh, and I know that, um, my self-defense mechanism that I learned very early on was to just beat up on myself and hate myself. If I get to me before anyone else gets to me.

• 19:29Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 19:29Conan O'Brien?

  Then I beat them to the punch.

• 19:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:31Conan O'Brien?

  And I always kind of sensed that when I would- Hang with you like, oh, I think Nathan and I have, there's a kinship here.

• 19:38Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 19:39Conan O'Brien?

  I know you had a, there was alcoholism in your family. And this, I know this is a dark thing to bring up. It's funny because there was, there was in my family, because we had, there had been alcoholism throughout the family tree. My parents, I grew up in a dry house, which is a thing you see in some Irish culture, which is they're so afraid of it that there, you can't even have a rum cake in the house. Like, there was nothing. There was no, you couldn't. So I grew up kind of, uh, being told that it's, it will, it will kill you if you get near it.

• 20:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:13Conan O'Brien?

  And it was the way people talk about like fentanyl now, that was how wine was treated when I was growing up. It just wasn't in the house. And then if company came over, my dad had a little like rusty key and he would open up a little cabinet and take out what must have been the shittiest bottle of wine in the world that he had just capped the last time someone had had a glass. Didn't know how to store it, blew dust off of it and gave someone, you know, basically vinegar.

• 20:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:40Conan O'Brien?

  There was a lot of ways where I feel maybe we would relate.

• 20:44Speaker 03

  Yes, as, as Irishmen, sure.

• 20:46Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 20:46Speaker 03

  The dark humor and, and self-deprecating that, you know.

• 20:51Conan O'Brien?

  And also something that I.

• 20:52Speaker 03

  Samuel Beckett vibe.

• 20:54Conan O'Brien?

  Well, you have said.

• 20:55Speaker 03

  To every party.

• 20:57Conan O'Brien?

  You said, I love this quote, I was reading an interview with you and you said that you, you felt like you grew up in a bad Eugene O'Neill play.

• 21:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:05Conan O'Brien?

  And then later you revise that, but why don't you elaborate on that?

• 21:08Speaker 03

  Oh, well, it was, you know, my father, uh, was, was an alcoholic, became an alcoholic. Really, I was born, uh, my mother had me when she was 40 and, um, and not long after, he started drinking really heavily and, um, and essentially drank himself to death. And my mother then sort of had a, had a kind of breakdown after his death and her own mother's death. And she eventually was diagnosed as bipolar, then it was called manic depression. It, it was a, um. Difficult childhood in that I had to grow up fast. I sort of became the adult. My two older brothers were going to college.

• 21:51Speaker 03

  They were sort of on the way out, although they were very much involved in helping. But when I was going to high school, it was just my mother and myself. And she was going through these phases of depression and then manic behavior. And it was in and out of mental hospitals. And then, and I never really, I never really had much of a relationship with my father. He died when I was 11. And I can remember saying to my brother, my oldest brother, Dan, you know, we were going to the funeral. And I said, um, I was upset. And he said, what's, and I said to him, I, I said, I can't cry. I'm supposed to be crying now.

• 22:28Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 22:29Speaker 03

  My father died and I can't cry. He said, that's all right. He, he said, you feel how you feel and it doesn't, that, that's not important.

• 22:37Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 22:38Speaker 03

  And, um.

• 22:39Conan O'Brien?

  Which was ahead of its time, by the way, for him to say that.

• 22:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:42Conan O'Brien?

  This is, I mean, this is.

• 22:43Speaker 03

  And he was not the healthiest guy in the world himself. Yeah, um, you know, um, yeah, he, yeah, he was, well, you know, he was a teacher. And, and he's certainly, and he was the, my, my, it is my oldest brother who got me interested in the theater and reading. And, you know, he was, became sort of a father figure.

• 23:10Conan O'Brien?

  Your name represents everything you've built, okay? Everything, like, I feel that way about my name. Yeah. It stands for all of the work, good and not so good in my life. But guess what? Your children's names represent their whole futures. Yeah. Your children haven't even started building their futures, but their identities are already valuable. Your child's clean credit history can make them a target for identity thieves. Never thought of it that way, but it's true. Identity thieves can open loans and credit cards using your child's social security number, racking up debt and ruining their credit. And you may not notice until they try and get their first credit card. So it could be a long time. Yeah. Well, guess what? With LifeLock, you can add family members to your plan, giving you the power to block identity threats targeting your children. Now, Sony, your kids are pretty young still. They are.

• 23:55Conan O'Brien?

  Five, but within a couple of years, you know, they're going to be buying heavy machinery online. What? They're going to be, become tractor fanatics. They're going to be buying tractors online. So if you have expenses or money stolen due to identity theft, you're backed by the million dollar protection package with up to $3 million coverage in some plans. So join now, save up to 30% off your first year. Go to lifelock.com/conan. That's lifelock.com/conan to save 30%. Terms apply.

• 24:26Conan O'Brien?

  This fall, I want to try something different.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  What?

• 24:28Conan O'Brien?

  I like to change it up. I like to learn things, so I'm going to try and make apple cider.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 24:32Conan O'Brien?

  Every morning.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 24:33Conan O'Brien?

  This fall, just to see if I can do it.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:36Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, fall's the perfect season to try something new, like joining T-Mobile.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  Oh, that's good.

• 24:41Conan O'Brien?

  See what I did?

• 24:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:42Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, there are 250 reasons to join T-Mobile right now. You want to hear what they are?

• 24:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:46Conan O'Brien?

  They're America's best network.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 24:48Conan O'Brien?

  True story. Plus, T-Mobile has got off-grid satellite coverage. That comes in really handy. I like to just wander in the woods sometimes.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  Oh, that's weird.

• 24:55Conan O'Brien?

  When I'm thinking about like making apple cider.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 24:57Conan O'Brien?

  And that's when it comes in handy. Here's another reason. High-speed data in over 215 countries and destinations. I travel a lot for the

• 25:04Speaker 01

  You travel a lot.

• 25:05Conan O'Brien?

  Travel show that I do.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:07Conan O'Brien?

  Stream this podcast while ignoring local landmarks. That's always fun to do. Like, oh, look, there's the Mona Lisa. Yeah, check it out. I'm in the Louvre. I should, but I'm listening to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend.

• 25:17Speaker 01

  That doesn't seem like a good idea.

• 25:18Conan O'Brien?

  It's a great idea.

• 25:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 25:20Conan O'Brien?

  You know, you can see art anytime. But how often can you listen to this podcast?

• 25:25Speaker 01

  My god.

• 25:26Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 25:26Speaker 01

  What?

• 25:27Conan O'Brien?

  No, all these reasons make T-Mobile a great choice.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 25:30Conan O'Brien?

  T-Mobile is stacking up reasons to join. Go to tmobile.com and find yours best based on an analysis by Ookla of speed test intelligence data first half of 2026. Can't believe I read that. T-satellite with capable devices in most outdoor areas in the US where you can see the sky. High-speed international data with qualifying plan. Visit tmobile.com, consult a physician. I just threw that in there.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 25:58Conan O'Brien?

  The holidays are supposed to be about making memories, not managing the mess that comes with them. Between winter weather, road trips, shopping and family gatherings, your vehicle can take a beating. Mine sure does.

• 26:08Speaker 07

  Same.

• 26:09Conan O'Brien?

  Especially when I'm back in the Northeast, driving around. I mean, I grew up with that.

• 26:13Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 26:13Conan O'Brien?

  Cars would rid of the salt on the road, people throwing rocks at me.

• 26:17Speaker 07

  What?

• 26:18Conan O'Brien?

  That's not a weather thing. That's more of a me being, making people angry.

• 26:21Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 26:22Conan O'Brien?

  WeatherTech helps protect your vehicle from snow, slush, salt and seasonal messes. They also make the best gifts for automobile protection, from floor liners and cargo liner to side window deflectors, even gift cards. Great for today and to prevent future messes. Everything is built to last, easy to clean and designed for harsh winter conditions. Okay? I got, I grew up with this.

• 26:44Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 26:45Conan O'Brien?

  And the salt would eat away the car. We actually did have a Chevy. My dad had a Chevy Impala and the floor rusted out and you could see the road going by.

• 26:52Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 26:53Conan O'Brien?

  Boy, we were praying for WeatherTech and we didn't even know it. That was before it existed.

• 26:58Speaker 07

  That's cool.

• 26:59Conan O'Brien?

  So get a gift today at weathertech.com.

• 27:08Conan O'Brien?

  There's this thing that happens, I think it's true of a lot of performers, where they, they take whatever they've been given and then they realize, my experience was I just went down a checklist when I was a kid and mostly it was things I wasn't good at, you know? I mean, literally, I mean, I remember doing like a mental rundown of, well, it's not going to be anything in the athletic field. I think that's quite clear. It's not going to be, I'm not really a ladies man.

• 27:35Speaker 03

  Me too.

• 27:38Conan O'Brien?

  So I just keep clicking things off and you figure out what weapon you have in your toolbox. And you must have figured out at a-

• 27:47Speaker 03

  And you find your group.

• 27:49Conan O'Brien?

  Yes, you find your-

• 27:50Speaker 03

  You know, you have to find the person who laughs at your jokes and gets it. Gets what you're talking about.

• 27:56Conan O'Brien?

  Still looking. It's a quest. An epic quest.

• 27:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:00Conan O'Brien?

  But when, so you figure out- Fairly, probably, what is it, high school? You realize like, I like to get up there. I like to be in front of people.

• 28:08Speaker 03

  I think, you know, honestly, I can remember as a, as a child, like doing, they would say, I would get up and do impressions. I would try to entertain the family. And I had like a bad club act. And then I was in a, you know, a grammar school play.

• 28:24Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 28:24Speaker 03

  I remember getting a laugh in that and thinking, oh, this was like blood to a vampire.

• 28:29Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 28:29Speaker 03

  And then, um, and then in high school, I started to do plays and it was social. It was finding your people, but it was just, um, I didn't, I didn't think it could be a profession.

• 28:40Conan O'Brien?

  Right, nor did I.

• 28:41Speaker 03

  And, and then, um, nearing the end of high school, I realized, maybe I could. My brother would also not only encouraged me, but he took me to see theater in New York, to see plays on Broadway and off Broadway. And sometimes with classes that he was teaching, he would take a class and I would go with him. And, and I would, you know, that first experience of watching the curtain go up and the lights on the stage and thinking, I'd like to be a part of that. I think maybe I could do that.

• 29:11Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 29:11Speaker 03

  Uh, and the excitement of just the ritual of it all. People quieting down as the curtain goes up and there's, you know, nothing quite like it.

• 29:20Conan O'Brien?

  Do you still, I mean, after all of this, all of these crazy hits of dopamine and success, can you still access that when you're in a show?

• 29:31Speaker 03

  Oh, absolutely.

• 29:32Conan O'Brien?

  Isn't that amazing?

• 29:33Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 29:34Conan O'Brien?

  You don't get, oh yeah, no, this is all, this, I'm just doing, giving them the old number 42B, you know?

• 29:40Speaker 03

  No, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm here making this, um, multicam, um, mid-century modern. And every Tuesday night when we, we, uh, tape it, it's, it's like you feel the adrenaline and you think, you know, you, you want it to go well. And there's, because of the, that, this process, which is sort of a whirlwind process and, and I was saying to someone today, it's, it's really more of a writer's process. It's there, they're sort of rewriting.

• 30:08Conan O'Brien?

  This is multicam and they rewrite throughout the week?

• 30:10Speaker 03

  Yes, it's sort of thrilling. It's all flying by the seat of your pants, but it's also like, is this acting? Or am I just repeating what you said to me three seconds ago?

• 30:20Conan O'Brien?

  Right.

• 30:20Speaker 03

  But somehow it all comes together and but I certainly before we start, I feel that kind of the thing you feel before.

• 30:30Conan O'Brien?

  The thing you felt as a kid, yes.

• 30:31Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 30:31Conan O'Brien?

  You get it doesn't go away.

• 30:33Speaker 03

  No.

• 30:34Conan O'Brien?

  I didn't realize this, but when you did the birdcage, that was a that was a big boost, step up. You had you were doing well, very well established Broadway, but you did the birdcage. But with Robin Williams, Mike Nichols had to talk you into it. Is that true?

• 30:51Speaker 03

  Uh, no, uh, no.

• 30:54Conan O'Brien?

  By the way, we do, we do very bad research here. And your name is. Your name is.

• 31:01Speaker 03

  Jason Alexander.

• 31:02Conan O'Brien?

  Jason Alexander. And you did.

• 31:05Speaker 03

  And I'm wearing the wig today.

• 31:10Speaker 03

  No, I, yeah.

• 31:12Conan O'Brien?

  I thought he had to talk you into it or that you were. No, okay.

• 31:15Speaker 03

  I'll forgive me if you've heard this before, but originally, you know, Mike, the great Mike Nichols and Laine May have wanted to do that, an American remake of La Catra Fall for a very long time and then finally gotten the rights. And it was supposed to be Steve Martin and Robin Williams. And Robin was going to play the part I wound up playing. Then Steve, there was another obligation. It wasn't going to work out. And then Robin decided, um, I've just done drag and Mrs. Doutry. I'm sorry, I've been ignoring you people.

• 31:49Conan O'Brien?

  No, no, they're to be ignored. They are to be ignored.

• 31:53Speaker 03

  I could only make one new friend at a time.

• 31:58Speaker 03

  So I don't know what you're doing with the rest of the afternoon, but maybe lunch and I can deal with you and and your childhoods.

• 32:08Speaker 03

  But, um, uh, so Robin decided after Mrs. Doubtfire, maybe I shouldn't play the drag part and, and that, that the acting challenge would be playing the more subdued character. And so it opened up that role and, uh, and he, Mike came to see me and laughed around the 23rd floor and I had met him briefly once and, you know, it's like meeting God. And then he came backstage, which he had never done, and he said, "Dear boy, I'd like to talk to you about a movie." And I was like, "Oh, you wanna go see one?"

• 32:47Conan O'Brien?

  I hear Conan's hanging out at the Angelica. He's in the lobby. Who is this Conan?

• 32:52Speaker 03

  And, uh, "Can I call you?" And he did. And then, so the next day it was, this is happening and it's Elaine is writing the adaptation and Robin Williams is gonna play the other part. And I said, "So I would, I would be the drag queen?" And he said, "Yes." And I said, "Well, that's a, that's a very good part." And he said, "Yes, it is." And I said, "Okay." And I couldn't believe it was happening. This is, now this is, you can cut me off at any point.

• 33:17Conan O'Brien?

  No, no, no. I love this.

• 33:18Speaker 03

  It's a long story. So, we also kinda did a, he wouldn't make it, he wouldn't refer to it as a screen test, but they wanted to see what I would look like in drag and all of that. And, and he made it fun and I sang a song and, you know, many outfits by the great Anne Roth, the costume designer. And, and then, I was supposed to do, a funny thing happened on the way to the Forum. They were building this around me. And Scott Rudin called me, the producer of Forum, and he said, "He's not gonna make that movie. That's never gonna happen. He's, it's never gonna work out." You know, it's, uh, and he went on and I, I, and, and I had to, uh, because of the scheduling, I had to turn it down.

• 33:59Speaker 03

  I had to say, "You know what? That I can't really leave these people in the lurch. They've been building and, and the timeframe now that you're talking about." I couldn't, I can't do that to them.

• 34:11Conan O'Brien?

  That's a crazy thing to say, no, Mike Nichols.

• 34:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:14Conan O'Brien?

  I will not co-star in your film.

• 34:15Speaker 03

  So, uh, so I said, okay, you know, and I told them and, and then I would hear from, I would see Mike Nichols. I was, this is, I was talking about this the other day. I would see him from time to time. He would like, once, um, this was, was this, this was afterwards. There was a, there was a period where, there was a period where maybe Robin wasn't gonna do the movie. This is how long this went on. And maybe, you know, he would say, how do you feel about Billy Crystal? I'm nobody, you know what I mean? And I would say, I love Billy Crystal.

• 34:47Conan O'Brien?

  Why, why are you asking me?

• 34:49Speaker 03

  You know, and then, you know, one day he came up to me, we were at a benefit and he said, Robert Redford. I said, is he here? He said, no. Robert, he said, Robert Redford as your husband. And I said, well, if you can work that out, all my dreams will come true.

• 35:07Speaker 03

  And so, and then, so anyway, so anyway, finally, I think Robin, it was, yeah, he was gonna play the other part. And then he calls me, he was in Ireland. And he says, Nathan, and I'm in my dressing room at laughter on the 30, 23rd floor. And he says, Nathan, um, I keep, I'm meeting people, but I think you're the person. And I said, I said, Mr. Mike Nichols, I, I have no power here. Perhaps if you called Scott Rudin, something could be arranged. He said, yes.

• 35:41Conan O'Brien?

  He's like an evil serpent.

• 35:43Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 35:46Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't mean to make him sound like that.

• 35:48Conan O'Brien?

  No, no, no.

• 35:48Speaker 03

  He was, he was.

• 35:50Conan O'Brien?

  No, but I know what you mean. He had a, uh, I, I, I, uh, well, an aura, an iconic status.

• 35:56Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:57Conan O'Brien?

  And, and so, yes, I could see him, he's someone who can just say, yes.

• 36:01Speaker 03

  He called you dear boy.

• 36:03Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, and it has a power to it.

• 36:04Speaker 03

  Oh, yes. And so, the next day, Scott Rudin said, um, you really wanna do this movie?

• 36:11Speaker 03

  Well, well, why wouldn't I wanna do this movie? Um, and he said, it means we have to postpone a year. And I said, I know. I said, I know. I turned it out. Um, he said, okay. And then it wound up, of course, helping us with Forum, because by the time Forum opened, the movie had come out. And I was not just this New York actor who was, you know, had lucked out in getting this, uh, the lead in this musical, but it was always the guy from that film that's doing well.

• 36:41Conan O'Brien?

  Right. It's Jason Alexander.

• 36:43Speaker 03

  Jason Alexander. And so it, so it's, uh, it one thing helped the other. And, you know, so I'm grateful to Scott Rudin, Mike Nichols, Robin Williams. It was, um, you know.

• 36:57Conan O'Brien?

  Um, I'm going to introduce, uh, someone who was, one of the things I always say is a, is a hallmark of a great career is, uh, that depending on who you run into in any age group, they're excited about a different thing. My, my co-host today, sitting with me, David Hopping.

• 37:16Speaker 08

  Hello.

• 37:16Conan O'Brien?

  Uh, who's here accidentally, uh, because Sona couldn't be here.

• 37:21Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 37:21Conan O'Brien?

  He, uh, lost his mind when he found out that he was going to be in a room with you.

• 37:24Speaker 08

  Oh.

• 37:25Conan O'Brien?

  Because of, uh, The Lion King. And he.

• 37:27Speaker 08

  We were walking in, Clay was like, do you mind sitting in today? And I was like, with Disney royalty, of course I want to sit in here.

• 37:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, we just did a, this thing at the Hollywood Bowl. Uh, it's gonna, I think it's on, it's airing soon. Um, it was a 30th anniversary, I can't believe that, concert of, you know, Jennifer Hudson and, um, yeah, and a lot of people from the, the original cast and the new people and people from the Broadway show is quite.

• 37:56Speaker 08

  Oh, that's so cool.

• 37:57Speaker 03

  Extravaganza. But it was fun to be reunited with Ernie Sobella, who played Pumba, and he's an old friend and.

• 38:05Conan O'Brien?

  I just, uh, and I also think, I had some experience with this, working on The Simpsons, but people don't realize that voice work, none of it works if it's not there in the voice. I don't care how good the animation is. I don't care how good the story is if the, if the actor who's doing the voice can't capture it. Uh, and I saw this on The Simpsons, that these people are just brilliant who do those.

• 38:27Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:27Conan O'Brien?

  You know, it's Hank Azaria and Dan Castaneda and this whole. If it's not there, you don't have anything. And so to be one of those iconic Disney voices is pretty amazing.

• 38:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, again, sort of like, you know, as a kid, seeing those Disney films and I was always sort of fascinated by the voice actors. And so to wind up doing that and with a movie that started as something called King of the Jungle. And nobody seemed to be excited about it.

• 39:00Speaker 03

  And then auditioning for Hyenas, you know, Three Hyenas, and then Ernie happened to be there. You know, we were both doing Guys and Dolls on Broadway at the time. And he had gone in first and he was gonna leave and he said, "I'll stay, I'll get lunch." And I said, "Well, would it be all right if he came in and we read together? Because it's Three Hyenas and it'll give me someone to play off of and, you know, might be fun." And then, you know, like two months later, they said, "Well, we're developing these two, you know, sidekick characters that are the comic relief." And, you know, a Warthog and a Meerkat. And I said, "Great."

• 39:40Conan O'Brien?

  My dream.

• 39:43Speaker 03

  You know, and then we started, it was like a two-year process and they show you drawings. And we said to them, "Well, what do you, how do you want them to sound?" And they wanted him to be lower pitched and me to have a higher pitched voice. But they said, "You're doing Guys and Dolls, so they should be like Damon Runyon characters, you know, in the Serengeti." And so Ernie was just doing, he does a combination of, no one will remember, a character actor named Wallace Beery.

• 40:14Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, yeah.

• 40:14Speaker 03

  Who used to talk like this. And then also a little bit of Michael Gottsev from The Godfather. "Who's really high up here, you know, you're on him." You know, that, he does, so he does a combination of that. And I'm just doing, you know, Brooklyn Jewish Meerkat. That old thing, that old thing. And, um, yeah, that's how, sort of how they came to life. And then Ernie used to, this was, the big joke was that we would, we're doing a show eight times a week and we'd go in to record very early and, you know, we were tired. And so I'd be having coffee and we're gonna start and Ernie would just start making fart

• 40:55Speaker 03

  noises in the middle of, you know, he'd say, "Ah, Timon!" And just to make me laugh and get me going and then they put it in the movie. Which is why Pumba is a, the first flatulent character in a Disney film.

• 41:16Conan O'Brien?

  So that's literally just screwing around.

• 41:19Speaker 03

  That was screwing around.

• 41:20Conan O'Brien?

  To make you chuckle.

• 41:21Speaker 03

  Yes. You know, little, you know, we improvised, they used a little of it. I mean, apparently, I don't even remember half of it, but they, apparently I said, you know, "What do you want me to do, dress and drag and do the whole of?" For some reason, it must've been a long day. And then they made it a song.

• 41:38Conan O'Brien?

  Now, here's where the businessman in me says, "You need a piece of that."

• 41:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, if only.

• 41:47Conan O'Brien?

  And I bet Disney is very easy to negotiate with. "Hey, Disney!"

• 41:52Speaker 08

  Get him on the phone?

• 41:53Speaker 03

  Yeah. You let me talk to them.

• 41:55Conan O'Brien?

  Okay.

• 41:56Speaker 03

  I'll handle it.

• 41:57Conan O'Brien?

  All right.

• 41:58Speaker 03

  I've got an in with Disney.

• 41:59Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a Disney guy?

• 42:01Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, big Disney guy. Uh, I'm curious about this because I have a tendency to squish things down. If things are good, I tend to just squish it down.

• 42:11Speaker 03

  Right.

• 42:12Conan O'Brien?

  Like, okay, well, that was a nice thing that happened, but let's just squish that down and put it over here and not think about it.

• 42:16Speaker 03

  Right.

• 42:17Conan O'Brien?

  And stick to the work. And it's sort of kind of a self-flagellating, again, god knows where this nonsense comes from, uh, I suspect we know. But are you able, I would want this for you. I would want you at this stage to be able to say, "Wow, god, I've done so much good work and I am Nathan Lane." Or feel some of that.

• 42:38Speaker 03

  Well, you know...

• 42:39Conan O'Brien?

  And I think it might be hard for you.

• 42:40Speaker 03

  Sure. Yeah, it's funny you say that. I had, my, my husband was here visiting and we had dinner. It was my, I had a birthday recently and we were sitting there and I, and I said to him, you know, "It's taken me such a long time to say, you know, I've..." I really appreciate, maybe it's age, I just appreciate, I have a lot of gratitude for what I've been able to accomplish with the, you know, so much about luck and opportunity and, you know, as Ina Garten says, be ready when the luck happens and.

• 43:14Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 43:15Speaker 03

  But you, you know, I, the amount of talented writers and actors and directors I've gotten to work with and, and it's, you know, it's, I'm very grateful and, and, and it's something to not only be proud of, but just, not that you're resting on your laurels, but you feel like, I, you know, I have accomplished something.

• 43:40Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 43:41Speaker 03

  And, and, and then it's meaningful to people and then whether it's, you know, The Lion King or The Birdcage or these, you know, huge, that were huge things in my life and that, and they meant something to someone is, means everything.

• 43:54Conan O'Brien?

  I mean, you know, jumping back to, I was in New York doing the late night show when the producers happened and it was, it was a cultural phenomenon.

• 44:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:06Conan O'Brien?

  That.

• 44:07Speaker 03

  Rarely happens.

• 44:09Conan O'Brien?

  I mean, it was a lightning strike, but it was more than that. It was, there are hits on Broadway, but something happened and everyone agreed that this is the greatest thing that's ever happened in New York City. And it was lovely to be around that. And then I remembered thinking, oh, Jesus, you and Matthew have to walk around and everybody wants a ticket. Every policeman, every guy who's there to open a manhole cover, and they're not gonna buy, Nathan, that you can't get them a ticket. What do you do about that?

• 44:43Speaker 03

  It was very, the sanitation workers were a big demographic for that show.

• 44:49Speaker 03

  But, yeah, you know, that kind of thing, I mean, like, you know, there's Hamilton and that was sort of another one. Yep, yep. But that was, I think that show was kind of, it was about, obviously, Mel Brooks, you know? Sure, yeah. That genius. And, but it was also kind of a zeitgeist hit. You know, you had come out of a long period of the dark British musicals and there hadn't been anything that was kind of a, a return to old fashioned musical comedy. Unapologetic. Unapologetic, you know, you know, a sort of a valentine and yet satirical at the

• 45:31Speaker 03

  same time and, and with, you know, one of, arguably, one of the greatest comic plots ever conceived. Yes. And so... We need this thing to fail. We need... Which is such a great idea. Isn't it? It's just, it's the beauty of that. So, you know, and I certainly was this huge fan of the film. I literally saw the film for the first time in a revival house here in LA and with an audience filled screaming their heads off. And I was like, Zero Mostel, I've never seen anyone so huge on screen. Yeah. Physically and emotionally and yet truthful. Yeah.

• 46:14Speaker 03

  And gritty and just hilarious and, and the combination of him and Gene Wilder. And, and so the notion that when all of that started percolating, I started to hear, he's writing a musical, David Geffen is trying to talk him into writing this musical based on the movie. And I thought, well, it is a backstage story, it makes sense, you know? And, and then, somebody mentioned, you know, they had talked to him about it. And then I was in, this was, this was the weekend, I hate to mark it this way, but it was the weekend Princess Diana died. Yeah, yeah. And my, he wasn't my husband then, but my, my now husband and I were at the Ritz in Paris.

• 46:59Speaker 03

  We went down to the pool and in the pool was Mel Brooks and Anne Bancroft.

• 47:05Speaker 03

  And my husband's favorite actress is Anne Bancroft. And he turned to me and he said, "That's Anne Bancroft." He said, "I'm too nervous. I can't swim in front of Anne Bancroft." He went upstairs. So I said, "Okay." And then I went to the pool and I had met them. This is like the benchmark laughter on the 23rd floor. They came. They had come to see it because there was a character based on Mel in the play, about which he said, "That character based on me, it's a tissue of lies."

• 47:40Speaker 03

  Anyway, they were very gracious. But I loved it. But I loved it. Anyway, he, you know, we said hello and I got in the pool and she, Anne was swimming laps. She left and he stayed in the pool with me, which I thought odd. And then he swam over to me and he said, "I'm working on a musical based on my movie, The Producers, and I think you and Marty Short are the only two people in the world to play those parts." And I was like, "Wow." I said, "That would be thrilling. I would be so honored." And then, you know, time passed. He had to write it with Tom in.

• 48:21Speaker 03

  And then, you know, Marty had just done, you know, brilliantly, Little Me. He won the Tony. He had spent a lot of time in New York, didn't want to be away from the family again that long. And so someone brilliantly suggested Matthew Broderick. And I thought, "That's, you know, in some ways, that's a better combination." You know, his energy and my energy, as it turned out it was. And he was, you know, sensational. And it was the beginnings of this journey that we took together, being in the middle of that tornado. And you think, "Oh, you know, you'll never..." The hype, you know, how can you live up to the hype? The great thing, as you said, you know, all these people,

• 49:06Speaker 03

  it's Barbara Walters and Kofi Annan are here after the show. You know, you go, "Really?" It's Bishop Desmond Tutu, loved it, he's coming up the stairs. So you'll go, wow.

• 49:20Conan O'Brien?

  Mrs. O'Brien is here.

• 49:22Speaker 03

  Alan Greenspan.

• 49:23Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 49:24Speaker 03

  And, you know, it was people like that, where you couldn't believe it. But the people I loved would be like Harvey Korman.

• 49:30Conan O'Brien?

  Sure.

• 49:31Speaker 03

  Coming back and saying, when you did that little piece of physical comedy and you go, these are people who understand what it is we're doing in a way.

• 49:39Conan O'Brien?

  Also, these are people that you watched when you were a kid.

• 49:43Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 49:44Conan O'Brien?

  To me, that was, nothing will ever be more magical than when I get to meet the people that I saw, sadly, there aren't many left. But I saw them on TV and they made me laugh when I was eight, nine, 10, 12, 15. And if they noticed me in any way.

• 50:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:04Conan O'Brien?

  And saw what I was doing and liked it, I think, okay, I can, I can die now.

• 50:09Speaker 03

  Oh, sure.

• 50:10Conan O'Brien?

  It's not gonna get better than this.

• 50:11Speaker 03

  Tim Conway, you know.

• 50:12Conan O'Brien?

  Yes, exactly.

• 50:13Speaker 03

  I met him, you know, these people you idolized, or Carol. I mean, Carol Burnett, you know, came back and was, she got emotional and she said, you know, this reminds me of the old days of what Broadway was like. And it's like you're, you know, Mel is throwing this huge party and you and Matthew are the hosts and it's, you know, it just was, yeah, it was that, the, especially in the beginning, that show, you know, the joy of it and the anarchy of it, like, anything could happen.

• 50:46Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 50:46Speaker 03

  Because it had that, you know, that tone to it. Yeah, that's kind of a once in a lifetime thing.

• 50:53Conan O'Brien?

  No, it's not, because I've got a new idea.

• 50:57Speaker 03

  The sequel?

• 50:57Conan O'Brien?

  Spartacus.

• 50:58Speaker 03

  Oh, Spartacus.

• 50:59Conan O'Brien?

  The Musical.

• 51:00Speaker 03

  Spartacus the Musical.

• 51:01Conan O'Brien?

  And I think you're perfect. Not as Spartacus.

• 51:05Speaker 03

  No, I'm his lawyer.

• 51:12Speaker 03

  You know what? You all can't be called Spartacus.

• 51:17Conan O'Brien?

  There's a legal issue.

• 51:26Conan O'Brien?

  You know, winning an award, that's a big achievement, right?

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:29Conan O'Brien?

  Every now and then in life, maybe something nice like that comes your way. Winning them consistently is almost impossible. It just doesn't happen, you know? Well, guess what? Winning five times in six years? You know what that sounds like to me? Sustained excellence.

• 51:43Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 51:44Conan O'Brien?

  Hyundai has done just that, earning the title of America's best SUV brand for 2026 from US News and World Report. You are a very happy Hyundai driver.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  I drive a Hyundai Palisade and I love my car. I love it. I love driving it around.

• 51:57Conan O'Brien?

  I've been tooling around in an Ioniq 5N, which I love. Beautiful car. Well, listen, whether you need an SUV for everyday life, your next big adventure, or extra room for family and friends, Hyundai has an option for you. The Tucson Hybrid is loaded with technology and built for everyday life. The Santa Fe Hybrid's fully capable and ready for adventure. The Palisade, that's yours, right?

• 52:16Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 52:17Conan O'Brien?

  They're gonna rename that the Sona. The Palisade Hybrid, yeah, delivers premium capability and class-leading interior space. With available, I have this memorized, H-Track all-wheel drive, up to an EPA-estimated 619 miles of range on vehicles like the Palisade Hybrid and Hyundai's industry-leading warranty. It's easy to see why Hyundai continues to deliver the quality, innovation, technology, and value drivers expect from an award-winning brand. View US News Best Cars at cars.usnews.com and call 562-314-4603 for complete details.

• 52:51Conan O'Brien?

  Your name represents everything you've built, okay? Everything, like, I feel that way about my name.

• 52:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:56Conan O'Brien?

  It stands for all of the work, good and not so good in my life. But guess what? Your children's names represent their whole futures.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:05Conan O'Brien?

  Your children haven't even started building their futures, but their identities are already valuable. Your child's clean credit history can make them a target for identity thieves. Never thought of it that way, but it's true. Identity thieves can open loans and credit cards using your child's social security number, racking up debt and ruining their credit, and you may not notice until they try and get their first credit card. So it could be a long time.

• 53:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:27Conan O'Brien?

  Well, guess what? With LifeLock, you can add family members to your plan, giving you the power to block identity threats targeting your children. Now, Sony, your kids are pretty young still.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  They are.

• 53:36Conan O'Brien?

  Five, but within a couple of years, you know, they're gonna be buying heavy machinery online.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  What?

• 53:43Conan O'Brien?

  They're gonna be, become tractor fanatics. They're gonna be buying tractors online. So if you have expenses or money stolen due to identity theft, you're backed by the million dollar protection package with up to $3 million coverage in some plans. So join now, save up to 30% off your first year. Go to lifelock.com/conan. That's lifelock.com/conan to save 30%. Terms apply.

• 54:06Conan O'Brien?

  Now, Sona, clearly I'm a very important person to you.

• 54:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:09Conan O'Brien?

  Just accept the premise and we'll move ahead.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 54:12Conan O'Brien?

  I'm a very important person to you. What would you get me from Macy's for the holidays?

• 54:17Speaker 01

  A vase.

• 54:19Conan O'Brien?

  No, I don't want a vase. I want something better.

• 54:21Speaker 01

  A jacket.

• 54:23Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, nice jacket. I love a nice jacket.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, that jacket, nice jacket.

• 54:26Conan O'Brien?

  So now you have to do it because you said you would.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  Aw, man, I didn't know you were doing that.

• 54:29Conan O'Brien?

  Well, I know the holidays, I know the holidays are months away, but it's never too early, Sona, to find gifts that I will love, gifts I will wear and surprises that make the season unforgettable for me.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 54:41Conan O'Brien?

  Macy's Gift Guide makes holiday shopping easy with beauty favorites, stylish fashion, jewelry, cozy essentials, must-have toys, home upgrades and picks for every person on your list. Coach handbags, Breville appliances, Lego UG and more all in one place. You can skip the scrolling and shop with confidence. Shop now in store or online at macy's.com/giftguide.

• 55:09Conan O'Brien?

  So now you're working and it's nice because it's a, it's, you're working with this cast, you're making it's, it's multicam. So you're making mid-century, uh, uh, modern. Is, am I correct? Linda Lavin was part of this.

• 55:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 55:24Conan O'Brien?

  And she has since passed.

• 55:25Speaker 03

  Yes, she has sadly.

• 55:26Conan O'Brien?

  The show Alice is how I got to know Linda Lavin. But, uh, and that was her iconic TV role. How much did you work with her?

• 55:34Speaker 03

  Um, well, you know, in, in the theater, she is a beloved figure, Tony Award winning actress. Um, famously, I remember seeing her in, uh, Neil Simon's play Broadway Bound, she played his mother and, you know, it's one of the greatest stage performances I've ever seen. And we knew each other just in passing, you know, as a, I was just a fan and we would see each other occasionally and I, we'd always say, I hope we get to work together someday. So, when this happened, um, it was, this whole thing has been an incredibly happy experience.

• 56:10Speaker 03

  A rare thing. And, uh, it's all the people who, you know, Jimmy Burrows.

• 56:16Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 56:16Speaker 03

  The director, I've always, again, one of these people.

• 56:19Conan O'Brien?

  Jimmy Burrows, one of these guys that, I mean, Cheers, uh...

• 56:22Speaker 03

  Going back to the Mary Tyler Moore show.

• 56:24Conan O'Brien?

  Yes, Friends, uh...

• 56:26Speaker 03

  Taxi.

• 56:26Conan O'Brien?

  Yep.

• 56:27Speaker 03

  Um, you know, and it's created by, um, Max Munchenick and David Cohen, who created Will and Grace.

• 56:34Conan O'Brien?

  Yep.

• 56:35Speaker 03

  And they've put together this tremendous writers' room and with Jimmy there and what they're doing.

• 56:43Speaker 03

  And then just the casting is everything. Uh, and so Linda was...

• 56:49Speaker 03

  I, it's a, that's a, I don't know, that's another podcast maybe, but it's, it's, um, it's been, it was tragic and, and, and shocking and, and then emotional and then they took a week, they pushed a week so that they could write an episode that deals with the death of her character. And also where the show is gonna go, going forward. And, um, and they did a beautiful job and it was overwhelmingly emotional, but she was, you would not believe she was 87 years old. Yeah, I mean, she was just, and then you put her in front of an audience and, you know, she was, as Jimmy would say, she was, with a joke, she was like a heat-seeking missile. She was just, she was just brilliant.

• 57:35Conan O'Brien?

  There is, there is that thing, I always heard it, um... About George Burns, that when he was, you know, famously almost made it to 100, but when he was like 96, they said, you could wake him up. He could be sound asleep on an airplane and you could wake him up and he could do 10 minutes. Like, because that thing doesn't go away.

• 57:53Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 57:53Conan O'Brien?

  You know, I mean, I know that God knows what'll happen to me, but whenever, if I'm in a coma and any of my writers come by or people come by and poke me, I will start doing a bit. And then they'll kill me.

• 58:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:12Conan O'Brien?

  Then they'll stop. But what is, I mean, we just, that's, doesn't go away.

• 58:17Speaker 03

  Yeah. No, she was just, I mean, in general, she was a great actress. I mean, she could do drama or comedy, but she was so brilliant, this, this sort of thing. And, and, and we just, it's just been a very happy family. Matt Bomer and an actor named Nathan Lee Graham, who are sensational. And Matt, who I, I feel like he's gonna be the, um, the revelation for a lot of people. Because, you know, he's a big handsome glute, but also a wonderful, serious actor. But he's riotously funny and, and, and, uh, so, um, it's been, it was an ordeal to get through. Because, um, uh, and then on top, we did this very emotional episode.

• 59:02Speaker 03

  And we felt like we honored her. And then I started to get vertigo. And I'd had it, since we've done therapy, I thought we'd now get to the more medical side of my life.

• 59:15Conan O'Brien?

  I can do that. I can handle that as well. I think it's a zinc deficiency.

• 59:21Speaker 03

  Isn't it always? So, I, uh, so I had these, I had had this about a year ago, what's called positional vertigo. And then there's a thing called the Epley maneuver, which, you know, sounds like a bad off-Broadway play. The Epley maneuver. Playing at the village gate. Anyway, um, uh, and it usually goes away after a couple of days and some Dramamine. So this time, uh, I, it really hit me. And I went to an ENT, they gave me a cortisone shot, but I'm holding on to walls. And you're really, uh, my equilibrium really thrown. And so I Google vertigo and the first thing that comes up is the dizzy and vertigo institute

• 1:00:06Speaker 03

  of Los Angeles in Beverly Hills. And the pictures look nice and they look professional.

• 1:00:12Conan O'Brien?

  Never go by the picture.

• 1:00:13Speaker 03

  And I'm, I'm, I'm like desperate. So, uh, I go back, so I make an appointment and I go back to the ENT the next day. Uh, Dr. Schnittman. And Dr. Schnittman says, Dr. Schmidt, Schnittman says it's not, um, positional vertigo. And, uh, and I said, well, I'm going to the dizzy institute. Right after.

• 1:00:36Conan O'Brien?

  This isn't real.

• 1:00:37Speaker 03

  Which sounds like.

• 1:00:37Conan O'Brien?

  Schnittman says it's, don't go to the dizzy institute.

• 1:00:41Speaker 03

  Like it should be run by Jennifer Coolidge.

• 1:00:43Conan O'Brien?

  Exactly, right.

• 1:00:43Speaker 03

  And so he says, I, that's where I was gonna send you. And I said, great. And, uh, so I go and it's a very, it's a real serious place and, and, and they were, they were incredible. And, um, they put me through a series of tests like an NASA astronaut in a chair. You go upside down, all these tests, eye and ear coordination. And, and they said, what you have is called labyrinthitis, which is a, a virus you get in the inner ear. And I got it in the left inner ear, which was causing severe vertigo and nausea. And so they put, the ENT put me on prednisone and then I had to do a series of exercises,

• 1:01:28Speaker 03

  uh, you know, and, and what's called vestibular therapy. And, and we, again, we had to cancel a week so I could get over this. And now we went, did the taping we were supposed to do last week, last night.

• 1:01:42Conan O'Brien?

  So how are you feeling now?

• 1:01:43Speaker 03

  A little dizzy. No, I feel.

• 1:01:47Conan O'Brien?

  I picture when you go to the dizzy institute, all the furniture is made of rubber. Like every, you know, anywhere you fall, it's, you're, boing, you're fine.

• 1:01:58Speaker 03

  I said, I told this to Tina, I ran it to Tina Fey.

• 1:02:01Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:02Speaker 03

  I told her about the dizzy institute. She said, you don't wanna go to that parking garage.

• 1:02:08Speaker 03

  It's a very dangerous.

• 1:02:11Speaker 03

  Crash, smash. Anyway, it's, uh, yeah, no, thankfully, thankfully, I, I feel great and it's, uh, yeah, I made a recovery, but it was, it's a weird thing. Yeah. Um, yeah, it's, but it's been, it's, it's, you know, my, I have a dicey history with the multi camp.

• 1:02:32Speaker 03

  The first one. Most people do. The first one was not my fault, was Mickey Rooney's series called One of the Boys. Dana Carvey and I did, I'm sure. Yes. You've discussed this with him. Uh, it comes up occasionally. Sure, yeah. I was the biggest star in the world. 1940. Yeah. Bang, zoom. I heard it all, but, uh, that was 13 and out. And then I did an episode of Frasier and I was nominated for an Emmy and they said, you know, if you ever want to do this, we, we'd love to develop something for you. I said, okay, they had won the Emmy five years in a row. We did, was not the right fit, 13 and out. Then I did a show with a writer from, uh, for CBS, uh, Jeff Richman, an old friend. Yep.

• 1:03:16Speaker 03

  Wonderful writer from Modern Family. He wrote a show, you know, did not, did not work out, uh, and no, he didn't really get much support from Les Moonves. Right. Salt of the earth, Les Moonves. So, um, so, you know, I was like, that's, it's just never gonna work out for me. That's fine, you know, I, I tried, you know, it's, it's, it's a miracle when those, when friends or those things come together that way. And this time I have to say, working with, but these are the best of the best. Yep. Jimmy Burrows is standing there with an eye for comedy that's, you know, it's incredible in how he's, they're putting this all together and the writers and the thing, you're like. Can't believe this.

• 1:03:59Speaker 03

  And it feels like, and I love these people and it's, and that's really important at this point in my life.

• 1:04:05Conan O'Brien?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:04:06Speaker 03

  That we're, we're, as Marty says, it's about the hang. Oh, you know, they're, they're an example on like when I did only murders in the building. They set the tone. Like you feel good about going to work and, and having fun and doing good work.

• 1:04:20Conan O'Brien?

  Those are all people that the minute it starts to get unpleasant, they're all gonna walk. And you're in that category too. There's no reason at this point for unpleasantness. I, I, I mean, that's why I adore doing this. It's not a volume business. We're not cranking out, I'm not talking to three people a night, five nights a week.

• 1:04:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:04:41Conan O'Brien?

  Uh, 40 nights a year. This is people that I love, that I really wanna talk to and have a real conversation with and get to know a little better. And if this started to turn into, oh God, I, I don't wanna, no, you kinda have to because they're moving, okay. Well, they're being real difficult, all right. No, there's no reason anymore.

• 1:05:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And you get, and in this format, you're getting something else.

• 1:05:07Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 1:05:07Speaker 03

  People are more relaxed. This is, this is a real, mu- much more real conversation than, you know, in front, when you're playing to an audience.

• 1:05:15Conan O'Brien?

  Yes. Um, I wanna wrap this up because I have to and, um, we've gone much longer than we normally do, which is always an indication that I'm having the time of my life. And, uh, I, I have one wish for you is that I, when I, when I brought up a little while ago in the interview, are you able to own sort of what you've achieved? You said, well, I've been very lucky and I da, da, da, da. And I say, yes, that's all true and that's the great perspective to have. But, uh, you're also a crazily talented person who has integrity and you're a very sensitive person. And you have made this happen. And I, I just wanna leave that little nugget with you and hope that you can hang on to it and then go hate yourself five minutes from now.

• 1:06:02Speaker 03

  Thank you, thank you. I, yeah, well, will you be my friend?

• 1:06:06Conan O'Brien?

  No.

• 1:06:07Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:06:07Conan O'Brien?

  No, just, just, no. I don't see it, I really don't see an upside. Don't see an upside, you know?

• 1:06:13Speaker 03

  I know, I thought I was pushing it, but I, you know?

• 1:06:16Conan O'Brien?

  No, no.

• 1:06:16Speaker 03

  I, I was just going by the title of the podcast.

• 1:06:19Conan O'Brien?

  No, it's a, it's a fucking gimmick.

• 1:06:23Conan O'Brien?

  God bless you and thank you. Bless you. Thank you so much.

• 1:06:29Speaker 04

  Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonam Afshian and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross and Nick Liao. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy.

• 1:06:49Speaker 04

  Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista and Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at siriusxm.com/conan. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

• 1:07:38Speaker 09

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• 1:07:57Speaker 07

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• 1:07:59Speaker 09

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• 1:08:19Conan O'Brien?

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