Books are .epubs, .mp3s, and .mp4s, too

Morgann Book reads a lot of books. And, as a literary creator and podcaster, makes a lot of content about books. She joins the show to explain why BookTok loves all things romance and romantasy, why physical books are an important balance to digital life, and why she's not worried at all about the future of reading. Further reading: Bookish Media Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:37David Pierce?

  Hello and welcome to The Vergecast, the flagship podcast of rereading the same book for the 65th time. I'm your friend David Pierce, and today on the show, is there a future for reading books? Books of any kind, audiobooks, digital books, physical books? Is there a future for any of them in our increasingly video, increasingly phone-based world? Over the last few months, and really even over the last few years, there's been this sort of alarming trend of bad news for reading. You can find evidence to suggest that people are much more likely to watch TV or look at their phone than read a book. You can find evidence that suggests people are more likely to gamble than to read a book. Basically, everything else is going better than book reading. But book reading is not dead. And in particular, there is a community of people online

• 2:22David Pierce?

  who have found books and have found each other and are keeping books alive in a really interesting way. I asked Morgan Book, a perfectly named literary content creator and podcast host, to come on the show and talk through all of that with me. Morgan has been a member of the book talk world for a very long time. She runs a very popular book club. She's been making content about books for a very long time. And she's also just an avid reader in a time when being an avid reader seems like a more and more rare thing to be. So I asked Morgan to come on and explain to me whether anybody still reads, whether audiobooks count as reading, and how I'm supposed to feel about the fact that I also haven't frankly read nearly as much as I'd like to this year. Let's get into it. Morgan Book, welcome to The Vergecast.

• 3:04Speaker 04

  Thank you for having me.

• 3:05David Pierce?

  I just want to start with you in particular. Have you always been a reader? Like before you were making content about books, were you just, you know, reading books like our ancestors did?

• 3:15Speaker 04

  I was. The running joke is because my last name is Book. Reading has always been in our DNA. So for as long as I can remember, my parents had a book in my hand. You can see the shelf behind me, like I've just been slowly collecting them. So yes, I've been a huge reader. When I was 13, 14, that was like my peak. I remember reading 163 books in one year.

• 3:37David Pierce?

  Wow.

• 3:37Speaker 04

  Now I'm at about 100. So yes, I've always been a huge reader.

• 3:41David Pierce?

  Okay, but books and content, as far as I can tell, didn't come together for you at the very beginning. You started being a creator in a very different way before getting into the book talk world. I went back and found your, it was somewhere between an intro and like an application video to book talk from 2021, which I really enjoyed. But before that, you were doing food stuff. So tell me about how you get into the sort of content book world? How those two things come together?

• 4:08Speaker 04

  You're very correct. So I initially started with cake decorating at my parents' Dairy Queen location. And then I knew I was a huge reader and book talk was kind of exploding. So I was like, why don't I give this a go? I posted a couple of videos. One of them, early on, was books that book talk had lied to me about. And it was these very popular books that I didn't like personally. And I was like, reading is subjective, like I'm not a huge fan. And the little bit of controversy in that one made the video do really well. I really enjoyed being in front of the camera, talking about books. And then the reaction was a bit negative, but I enjoyed like starting to see this like book community come in.

• 4:50Speaker 04

  So then I made the transition of, from Dairy Queen decorating cakes over to books, and I would draw book covers on cakes, whether just like for fun or I partnered or collaborated with an author or a publisher on an upcoming title. And then I slowly just like completely transitioned over to books and reading.

• 5:11David Pierce?

  Yeah, the more I have come to understand book talk, the more I think it is kind of a unique thing on social media in that it's not just a bunch of people all making content about the same kind of thing. It's actually in a way sort of more structured than that. Like it's obviously book talk is too big to just be one individual thing. But I think people understand book talk to kind of be one single community in a really interesting way. So like for somebody who has never really experienced what it's like to be inside of book talk, how do you think about what book talk is now?

• 5:44Speaker 04

  It's a simple question with a very complicated answer. I describe book talk as an online community of readers. But then it opens up more into like, okay, there are people who are reading different types of genres. There are people who are just going for book recommendations. There are people there who are posting recommendations. There's reading vlogs. There's, I mean, there's authors on there now promoting their book, whether or not it's because they want to or I've met with authors who have a really small marketing budget and they're like, I'm going to put myself out there. So it's a massive online community of readers that have different pockets that serve different people and different things.

• 6:27David Pierce?

  So I agree with that, but I also think there is something to like romance and romanticy in particular that is like, everybody is always talking about the same books in a way that is so unusual in culture in general, right? Like you kind of can't do this with big name movies now in most cases. But every once in a while, it just seems like every single reader on TikTok is talking about the exact same book. And I can't figure out if this is some, you know, shady like Illuminati book club that no one knows about that decides what book everybody's into. But there is, there is some big fascinating community going here, particularly around romance novels. What is it about romance novels that seem to just bring people together in this way?

• 7:12Speaker 04

  I think romance, I mean, I've been a romance reader forever. I love the genre. I love that the recognition for the genre is now like finally here. There was a point in time where I myself as a reader and I know other people, like it was a bit like taboo to read romance. For some reason, we convinced ourselves that we were like, ooh, it's not, it's not something that I wanted like say that I'm reading. And I've since morphed out of that and I'm so proud to be a romance reader. I think romance is safe. Romance allows us to like delve into difficult topics while still giving readers a happy ending, while still giving readers characters that they connect to. I mean, I think it, I think it comes down to that. I think romance is predictable.

• 7:55Speaker 04

  It's something that people often shame romance for being. But I think predictability is really comforting towards people. We live in a world where there's so many, there's so much negativity in, in, in social issues and political issues. It's nice to curl up on the couch with a book that is going to give you relatable characters and a happy ending. You know what you're getting. With romance, with romanticy, I think it's in a similar sense. It allows you to kind of like explore a new world. Like the, the running, not joke, but theme around books is you can live a thousand different lives with reading. And I think romanticy and the books that I often see people talking about,

• 8:37Speaker 04

  Throne of Glass, A Court of Thorns and Roses, and Fourth Wing, allow you to do that. And I think one of the reasons why those books are so popular is because they're relatively intro-friendly. They're not high fantasy. They allow new readers in general and new readers to romanticy or fantasy to better understand the worlds that have been created.

• 8:59David Pierce?

  Okay, this is all taking place in the middle of this big, you know, discourse with a capital D about whether reading is dead, right? Where the Atlantic runs a cover story that's like, no one's going to read ever again. And it's 40,000 words long. And just the irony of that will never stop making me happy. But there is this ongoing belief in a lot of circles that people are reading less challenging stuff. They're reading less in general. I think the, the existence of kind of this community you're talking about is one of the few bright spots that people talk about in this space. And, and I wonder if you look at this and it's like, okay, there's something not just interesting about these kinds of stories and this kind of community, but about the fact that it's books that makes this work.

• 9:41David Pierce?

  Like a lot of what you described, I think is also true of TV shows and stuff, right? People love procedural dramas for the same kind of reason, right? They follow a predictable pattern. You kind of know how it's going to go. You know what you're getting into and that, that means something to people. But there's something about the fact that with these romanticy books, that it's books that is meaningful and powerful for people in a way that is hard to pull off in almost any other genre. What do you think it is about these books as actual books that is working?

• 10:08Speaker 04

  I think people are looking for excuses to stop being on screens, truthfully. Like books is something we can pick up. We can, there's no notifications coming through. There's no text from. Mom saying, go empty the dishwasher. You can fully take yourself offline and pick up a physical book and go and dive into it. There's no distractions coming through. So I think, I mean, that's a huge one. I mean, books are like, I think they're cool. I think they're pretty. I think they look great on a shelf. Like people have coffee table books and they just sit there. I, I don't know. I mean, in my circle, I feel like more people are reading than ever.

• 10:50David Pierce?

  That's awesome. So I, I think, I think your, your theory about the sort of object of the book is the right one. But I, I'm, I'm curious how you think about that in your own life, because you're a person who reads a lot of books, but you also make content about books. You also have a podcast about books. You, you're also this thing where uh, we are trying to take the thing that is very deliberately an offline object and make something online about it, strikes me as hard. In the same way that I think a lot of people like the idea of reading books on their phone, but you run into those same struggles that you're talking about, right? And so I think that there's something very cool and exciting and lasting about the idea of how do we sort of marry this offline reading experience with all of the online stuff.

• 11:35David Pierce?

  But it just seems like eventually those things would get very hard and bleed into each other. And you're, you're sitting there being like, okay, I'm reading a book, but I should probably turn on my camera and start making content about it, which completely defeats the purpose of this offline experience of reading the book. How do you manage that in your own life?

• 11:51Speaker 04

  You definitely nailed it by saying that even just like the act of reading in general has not lost some of its fun, but the fun has now been changed because I read so much for the book club that I run, the podcast, potential adaptations that we want to produce, things like that. But I'm also very, I'm very grateful to be in that situation. So I mean, when I'm reading these days, I like to put my phone in another room. A phone is just like a complete distraction. You hear a buzz, you hear a dang, you're like, even like getting to like a slightly boring part in the book. We're like, oh, like, let me just grab my phone, let me go scroll. And there's, there's jokes about it on book talk of like, you're scrolling and it's like, put down your phone, go pick up your book.

• 12:36Speaker 04

  Like it, we know what we're doing and yet we sometimes, we can't control it. I mean, phone addiction is a very real issue happening to a lot of people, especially I think Gen Z and Gen Alpha. So I like to put my phone in a different room. Sometimes I'll even put on my calendar times where I'm gonna go read, whether it's for fun. And if that's the case, like I'm not pulling out my phone, I might not even talk about it online. Like I just want to read a book because I'm excited to read it for me. I think that's super important, working in this industry. So I don't know if there's a perfect solution. I think it's really difficult. And I think on the bright side though, it opens up doors to um,

• 13:16Speaker 04

  third spaces where you can read, like book club meetups or author sit down. Like in conversation events, even there's a like New York base. It's called reading rhythms where you each bring a different book and you go and you sit and you read in silence. And I think being in a community of people who are reading, you're like, oh, I'm not gonna pick up my phone. I'm gonna read like everyone else. Again, it's like this like sheep mentality, but I mean, it, it works in that case. It's tough. It's really tough to find the balance of reading and being online sometimes.

• 13:49David Pierce?

  What's your theory on like what counts as reading? I'm sure everybody is up in arms about, you know, our audiobooks reading. And I think particularly for you, you're thinking a lot about how TV shows and vertical dramas interact with books and stuff. Just the definition of what reading is seems to have expanded a lot. How do you think about it? What, what does count as reading these days?

• 14:14Speaker 04

  I think reading is anything where you are consuming words. That's how I'm gonna phrase it. I think that goes with any physical book. I can like, if you're reading a magazine, that's reading. If you're reading a comic book, that, that is reading. If you're listening to an audiobook, you are still consuming words. Arguably, I spend, like, it takes me longer to listen to an audiobook than it does to physically read it. I'm spending more time consuming this world. So yeah, I think I am not, again, like I say, when I listen to a book, I'm like, I read it. I'm gonna put it on Goodreads. It, it counts as read. There's a huge discourse about it, but I think like you had mentioned.

• 14:55David Pierce?

  Still a controversial opinion?

• 14:56Speaker 04

  Oh God, yeah.

• 14:57David Pierce?

  Is it, ugh, we need to get over, we're gonna get emails about this, but I'm completely on your side. That it is very straightforward to me that listening to a book counts as reading the book.

• 15:07Speaker 04

  You really have to lock in to listen to an audiobook too. I'm like, people are like, well, it's just like, it's listening, it's a hobby. But I, I, I truthfully, I just, I really don't agree. And I mean, like you had mentioned, if we're living in this world of like, people need to read more. I don't think we should him and ha about what's reading. Like if someone only wants to listen to audiobooks, you're not gonna say that they're reading. It just seems a bit crazy to me.

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• 18:34David Pierce?

  You mentioned at one point in your newsletter, wanting to do an adaptation in a way that felt like a book, right? That, that wasn't just, we're gonna take the same story and make something completely different, but we wanted to do all of the things a book does well.

• 18:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:48David Pierce?

  What does that mean? How do you think about that?

• 18:50Speaker 04

  I mean, I think it's a new entity, but I also want to feel the same way watching an adaptation as I did reading the book. I don't need to have every line of dialogue in an adaptation. It's not possible. You're taking 400 pages into sometimes an hour and 30 minute movie. So I think nailing the chemistry between the actors in a romance sense and giving an audience the same feeling that the readers did is what I consider a successful adaptation.

• 19:19David Pierce?

  Okay.

• 19:19Speaker 04

  I'm a producer myself. We have a small slate of books that we want to adapt. I think it's just about approaching it in the right way. Like, why do you want to adapt it for the screen? Like, do you just want to do it just for another adaptation? Or do you think an audience or a broader audience or the readers themselves could really benefit from seeing a team take this to life?

• 19:40David Pierce?

  So if I'm right, the, the series you did, Drive Me Mad, wasn't a book, but it was an idea for a book that you spun into something else. Is that right?

• 19:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, so we worked with romance author, Ally Rosen, who have, she has five other written work. So when we connected with her, um, she's actually coming out on my podcast this week. Um, she was like, every romance author will tell you, they have a bunch of ideas in their notes app. So while we couldn't do anything with her current slate of books, whether they were tied up other, like other places. She was like, I have, I have some ideas, here's one of my favorites. And that was Drive Me Mad.

• 20:17David Pierce?

  Yeah.

• 20:18Speaker 04

  But I thought it really worked because. It leaned into tropes, that book that readers really, really love. So you've got this road trip romance, you've got forced proximity, you've got a secret identity, you've got the one bed trope. So it felt like a book through and through. It followed the similar pattern of a romance book. And it was just, it just felt really cute and right for a vertical series, which again, historically, the landscape of vertical dramas, they rely on sex appeal and sometimes taboo topics and really insane cliffhangers, which is okay. Like, there is an audience for that. I've read a couple where I'm like, this was pretty good.

• 21:03Speaker 04

  But the concept for Drive Me Mad felt really unique and I think something that the vertical series needed.

• 21:11David Pierce?

  Okay, I buy that. Did it feel different to do something that doesn't come back to a book? I mean, I think there's a lot of tension that I see in this space where this is a book-based space, right? And there is this underlying belief that like, yes, books are important and we want to do all these other things, but we should come back to being about books. And I think what you're saying is something a little more expansive, that like, let's take what's good about books and put it somewhere else, which is really interesting, but is also is another idea about, well, what if actually there isn't something special about books at all? There's something good about it, but we can apply that thing somewhere else. I don't know. Like, are you a traitor to book talk because you're making something that isn't based on a book?

• 21:54Speaker 04

  I don't think so, because it came from a romance author's brain. It very much could be a book. I mean, there are similar ones out there. I think when it came to approaching a vertical series, it was romance as a genre that I was really gunning for. And I'm like, what does a romance fan deserve? Like, what do romance readers and consumers of romance really love? And I think that's how I approached it. So no, I don't think I, I feel like a traitor towards book talk. I think it was written for people who love romance, or it was produced for people who love romance.

• 22:30David Pierce?

  Yeah, okay, I buy that. We hear from a lot of people who watch and listen to the show, who I think feel the thing you're talking about, that there is something good about books, that there is something good about reading that we should do. I think people intellectually understand that reading is good. And then we all just sit on our phones and look at Instagram, right? This is what it is to be a person in the modern world. So as somebody who does successfully read a lot, let's do some practical advice here. Tell me about your reading setup. When you're like, I'm gonna read now, what do you do?

• 23:00Speaker 04

  I don't think anyone's gonna like this answer. I can read wherever, whenever, does not matter. I do it all the time that like, if I'm five minutes early, and that's how I read so much. So like, that's my secret to like, reading 100 books a year. If I'm five minutes early to an appointment, I'm really trying to like, I bring my Kindle or my Kobo with me everywhere I go, or I read on my phone, or I have it on my laptop. Like, again, like, there are ways to skirt around it. So I, like, if I'm five minutes early, I'm gonna pull out my Kindle or my Kobo and I'm gonna read. But if I'm like, setting up my dream reading area, like at night or in the morning, I'm

• 23:42Speaker 04

  turning on the fireplace, I'm getting a cozy blanket, I'm usually getting a glass of water, I don't drink a lot of coffee, and I'm putting on instrumental music. A lot of people can't read when they listen to music, but I found the like, Interstellar or Project Hail Mary soundtrack make for great immersive reading experiences.

• 24:01David Pierce?

  It makes every book like 15% more exciting to listen to. I used to read to the Pirates of the Caribbean soundtrack, which does the exact same thing. It's like, every 10 minutes, it's like, whatever I'm reading just became incredible.

• 24:14Speaker 04

  Yes, yeah, it was awesome. So yeah, so unfortunate, I mean, fortunately, I can, I can read anywhere and I will. Or I commute from where I lived into Toronto a few times a week and there is an audiobook on every time I'm in the car.

• 24:27David Pierce?

  Okay. So you mentioned your phone, your Kindle, your Kobo. What do you, what do you bring with you? You're going to, I don't know, the coffee shop and then the dentist. What reading devices are you bringing with you?

• 24:40Speaker 04

  It depends on, if I'm going somewhere and I don't think I'm gonna read, my Kindle will most likely come with me as a backup. Oftentimes, I'm not pulling out. If I'm going to a coffee shop or I'm going somewhere with the idea that I'm gonna read, a physical book is gonna come with me. Because it just like, I don't know, I think it looks cool sometimes to have a physical book. It's nice to hold it in my hand. So that's the plan.

• 25:04David Pierce?

  So when you know you're like, I'm gonna have 20 minutes to kill, I'll probably have some time to read, you're bringing a physical book?

• 25:09Speaker 04

  I'm bringing my, a physical book with me. Yes. But usually, I will say, if I'm reading a physical, if I'm reading any book these days, it's gonna get finished in one sitting or two.

• 25:20David Pierce?

  Really?

• 25:21Speaker 04

  I'm really gonna lock in and try and finish it, especially if it's for work, yes.

• 25:26David Pierce?

  Okay. How many books do you read at a time?

• 25:29Speaker 04

  Anywhere from one to four, usually.

• 25:35David Pierce?

  Do you have a preference? Like, would you rather be a one at a time person? Okay.

• 25:40Speaker 04

  Yes, I would, which is why I try to read them in one sitting, so I can't, I won't get confused about what I'm reading. But I can't read like, two pure romances at the same time. It's like a romance, a romanticy, a thriller, and then an audiobook. An audiobook is like a separate thing. I remember every single word that comes through my ears. So that's how I usually like to break it up.

• 26:03David Pierce?

  Okay, yeah, that's been my experience too, that I can do multiple books at a time only if they are completely different books.

• 26:09Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 26:10David Pierce?

  Otherwise, I start remembering characters into the wrong book and it's a whole, it's a whole nightmare of a scene. What do you recommend either for yourself or other people when you're feeling sort of stuck in a rut? Every time I sit down to read, I end up just looking at my phone for an hour. What's the, what's the kickstart to get back in a reading habit that works?

• 26:30Speaker 04

  Put the phone in a different room. Put it like, out of reach, out of sight, put it on Do Not Disturb.

• 26:35David Pierce?

  But I don't want to, Morgan, I really like my phone.

• 26:38Speaker 04

  But it's, or like, get one of, like, everyone's talking about these brick, you can like, brick your phone. Something like that, just like, put it elsewhere. And then find a book that like, you are going to like. Like, we had talked about, there's so many titles that are being like shoved down people's throat, like Akatar, Fourth Wing, Throne of Glass, listen. I love all of those books, I really do. They are not going to be for everyone. So just because everyone on book talk is throwing these same books at you, like, dig deeper for what you find. And if you sit down and you're like, oh, I just like, wanna go get my phone, you're probably not reading the right book. Like, there are so many different genres and authors, and find something short. Like, don't dive into Stephen King's It right away.

• 27:23Speaker 04

  Like, find something sub 300 pages. I mean, Project Hail Mary is one of my favorites. It's like my foolproof recommendation to people these days. I love The Wedding People, that's a really foolproof one. Like, there are a few books that I think I'm like, everyone is going to like these. I recently read Hollow Bones by Jodi Picoult, that's another incredible one. Find what you like. Like, don't, there's so many voices going on in the book world sometimes. Experiment, I mean, I love going on Libby at the library and it's like, you don't have to buy anything, you can just like, take out a couple at a time and find what you like. Don't listen to other people sometimes.

• 28:04David Pierce?

  That's a good one. I also think a piece of advice I got from somebody one time was reread a book you know you like.

• 28:10Speaker 04

  Oh, so true, yeah.

• 28:11David Pierce?

  For, for kind of the reasons you were talking about earlier, right? That it's like, I know what this is going to do and it will not disappoint me in the end. It's that same sort of, I know the beats of this story, I know where it's gonna go, I know where it's gonna end up. And there's something very comforting about building that back up. And I do buy the idea that reading is a muscle, right? That the more you do it, the more you'll be able to do it. And so just getting, giving yourself like, it's like going back to the gym if you haven't been for a while, right? Like, go for, just go for five minutes. Just go walk on a treadmill for five minutes. The equivalent of that for me is like, read the same dumb book I've read 65 times. Are you a rereader?

• 28:50Speaker 04

  I am, on like, ones that I really, really love. Like, again, like, I've read A Court of Mis and Fury probably five times now. So yeah, I agree with you wholeheartedly on like, rereading something you love can really help you pull out of it. For anyone who wants to like dip their toes into romance or something, I find like, a spicy romance, great way to get out of a reading slump or to like, kind of experiment. One of my favorites is Heartless by Elsie Silver. All of my friends who are not readers, I give them a single dad romance and they're like, maybe I do like reading. Again, you just have to, you have to find what works.

• 29:27David Pierce?

  Okay. What's book talk's takes on Kindles and e-readers in general? I feel like audiobooks have been contentious, so have digital reading devices. Are we, are we cool with Kindles these days?

• 29:39Speaker 04

  I think people who have a Kindle or a Kobo are really cool with it. Those who have not experienced yet are like, I would never, I would never buy an e-reader. And I was like that for so long, I love physical books, I have so many. But I think when you, I travel a lot and I was like, fine, like, I'll bite the bullet, I'll buy one. And it's been a game changer. I find I read faster on an e-reader. I think book talk is all for it, those who have one. And I see more and more videos of like, what should I get, Kobo or Kindle? Like, there's so many, I mean, that I think is the bigger debate I have seen versus should you get an e-reader?

• 30:14David Pierce?

  Okay, that's good, that makes me happy. I feel like, again, it wasn't that long ago that the, is it somehow less to read on a digital device than it is? And I think we're still doing that with phones, right? Like, does reading on your phone count as reading in the same way that, you know, sitting with a blanket, reading a physical book counts as reading? And I think the answer is just yes, and we all need to just move on with our lives.

• 30:36Speaker 04

  I would agree.

• 30:37David Pierce?

  And I'm glad, it sounds like we're getting there.

• 30:38Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 30:39David Pierce?

  All right, Morgan, it's been great to have you here. Thank you so much for coming on. Send me, send me some romanticy book recommendations. And I will proudly read them in front of strangers.

• 30:49Speaker 04

  Happy to.

• 30:50David Pierce?

  It's gonna be great.

• 30:51Speaker 04

  Amazing, thanks.

• 30:52David Pierce?

  Thank you, Morgan.

• 30:55Speaker 00

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• 32:20Speaker 05

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• 32:26David Pierce?

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• 32:38David Pierce?

  All right, before we go, I have one more thing for you. Actually, three more things. It's Kindles. I have the new Kindle, the just base model Kindle. I have the new Kindle Paperwhite in aluminum, and I have the new Kindle Color Soft, also in aluminum. I should review all of these. I will write a longer review at some point. But the thing I would tell you is that a cool and also unfortunate thing has happened to the Kindle lineup, which is that it got much better. These are by far, by far, the nicest objects Kindles have ever been. The base Kindle comes in nice colors. You can still get it in the kind of plasticky touch thing, but it also comes in aluminum now. And in particular, I think the Paperwhite and the Color Soft are just better than they've been.

• 33:23David Pierce?

  The screens continue to get better. Amazon does a better job of making e-ink screens look better than almost any other company. You can buy an e-ink screen for very cheap on tons of different devices. I also have a Books Palma 3 here, but we'll talk about that another time. But Amazon actually does a lot of work to improve those screens, and it really, really shows. The thing about the aluminum bodies and the fact that these things have gotten nicer and better is in keeping with all of Amazon's other announcements over the last couple of months, they're all way more expensive. You used to be able to get a baseline Kindle for like 60 bucks, and now it's $150. And if you want the higher end one with the aluminum, it's almost 200 bucks.

• 34:06David Pierce?

  You can pay over $200 for a base Kindle without trying very hard. And the Paperwhite is even more expensive. The Paperwhite for years has been my just default recommendation. It was like 120 bucks with the ads. Get the ads, it doesn't matter. They're lock screen ads. No one notices them anyway. It has just been my default answer for people for many, many years is get the Paperwhite. You'll love it. That's now also vastly more expensive. And then there's the Color Soft, which is even more expensive. I think the Color Soft is for a very specific kind of person. If you really like reading comics or graphic novels, this one's probably for you. But most book readers don't need the color or the extra cost that comes with it. All of it is more expensive than it frankly should be. All of it is vastly more expensive than it has been. But I still think it's worth it.

• 34:50David Pierce?

  And I think it is unusually worth it for these devices in particular because people keep these things forever. The beautiful thing about an e-reader is that it's not a very complicated gadget. It doesn't need to do a lot, and it's not going to get some wild new set of features in two years that make all of this hopelessly out of date. Should Amazon have like found a way to be more innovative so that maybe that was the case with these devices a long time ago? Sure. But the truth is, if you buy a Paperwhite now, the odds are very good that it is going to still work more or less the same way five, seven, 10 years from now. Every time I review a Kindle, I hear from people who are like, I have the very first Kindle Paperwhite. Is it time to upgrade?

• 35:35David Pierce?

  And I'm often like, no. Buy a really nice Kindle, use it until it dies, which will take a very, very, very long time, and then buy another Kindle. This is a huge success story of this e-reader lineup, and I think makes all of these new ones more palatable to me than usual. Like, I love reading on this Paperwhite, and I love the fact that it's aluminum. I love the fact that it can ding around in my bag a little more, and I don't have to worry about anything happening to it. It just is nice. And it's a rare thing, especially for something that you're going to hold in your hands for hours at a time, that it feels nice. Most e-readers do not feel nice. And I really have appreciated having one that actually feels impressive and high-end. And yes, it's expensive,

• 36:20David Pierce?

  but over the life of one of these things, if you are the kind of person who wants to buy a Kindle and keep it forever, it's worth it. If you're the kind of person, and you will know this about yourself, who's going to buy a Kindle and leave it in the seat back pocket on an airplane? Don't buy this Kindle. It's too expensive, and you'll lose it on a plane. But if you're, if you're going to hold on to this thing for years, and it's just going to be in your backpack or be on your bedside table, it's a little bit of extra money. And I think Amazon actually made the right decision by making all of these things nicer because it makes a difference, and they will last a very long time. Still, I think the Paperwhite is the best one, but for the most part, actually, the base Kindle will do the job. For a long time, I thought it was kind of not good enough. It's a little smaller. It's a little underpowered.

• 37:05David Pierce?

  It's still a little smaller, but I think there is an argument to be made that most people would be really well-served with this base Kindle, which is good because it saves you some money. Anyway, I'll write more about this at some point. If you have a favorite Kindle or thoughts about these, I would love to hear them. Or if you have questions about these in particular. I know people have a lot of thought about Kindle screens. So if you want to know how it feels to have all three of these things in front of me, or if you have any questions about them, get at me. All right, that's it for the show. Time for us to get out of here. I have some reading to do. Morgan gave me some book recommendations, and I'm going to disappear and go read some books for a change. If you have thoughts, feelings, questions, or book recommendations for me, I am always all ears. You can email us, [email protected]. You can call the hotline, 866-VERGE11.

• 37:48David Pierce?

  We love hearing from you about this and everything. But there's one exception to that. If you think audiobooks don't count as reading, don't email me. I don't want to hear about it. You're wrong, and that's okay. We can just agree to disagree and move on with our lives. And as always, the best thing you can do to support everything we're up to here at The Verge is to subscribe to The Verge. Theverge.com/subscribe. It gets you all of our podcasts ad-free. It gets you all of our exclusive newsletters. It gets you all of our coverage of e-readers and e-reading and everything else. Theverge.com/subscribe. Thank you in advance. The Vergecast is a Verge production and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. The show is produced by Josh Kahas, Eric Gomez, Brandon Kiefer, and Travis Starchow. See you tomorrow. Back in.

• 38:28Speaker 06

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• 38:40Speaker 07

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