Ariana Madix: The Vanderpump Affair (FBF)

Prepare for an explosive episode of Call Her Daddy as Ariana Madix exposes the shocking affair that unfolded between her boyfriend of nine years and one of her closest friends. Ariana takes us through the heart-wrenching night she discovered the betrayal, revealing new details that will leave you speechless. Ariana confronts the rumors head-on. Uncover the origins of the open relationship speculation and learn whether she turned a blind eye or fought to salvage the relationship. She reveals new information that has since emerged about the affair, including Tom secretly flying Raquel to his hometown, the moment he had sex with Raquel when Ariana was home and more. In this candid and unfiltered conversation, Ariana pulls back the curtain on the intricacies of her relationship, sharing both the highs and lows. She openly discusses her grief and the weaponization of her mental health. Join Ariana as she explores life after the reunion and provides insight into her new fling, offering a glimpse into what lies ahead for her. Call Her Daddy apparel is here.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 0:43Alex Cooper?

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• 1:27Alex Cooper?

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• 2:10Alex Cooper?

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• 2:55Alex Cooper?

  Daddy gang, I am so excited because Ariana Maddox is our guest on Call Her Daddy today. If you are a fan of the reality show Vanderpump Rules, you know exactly who Ariana is. You don't need any preface to this interview. You're ready to dive in. But for those of you who may not be familiar and have never watched the show, I got you. I get it. You're stressing out. You're like, I can't watch this interview because I'm not going to know anything. I don't know the backstory. Daddy gang, I got you. I'm going to break this down for you so you can follow along and also enjoy this episode. So here we go. Vanderpump Rules is a reality television show that is on its 10th season. Naturally, with

• 3:37Alex Cooper?

  reality shows, there's been tons of emotion and drama throughout the years. And there have also obviously been hookups, breakups, and cheating scandals. Which brings me back to my guest today, Ariana Madix. Ariana stars on the show alongside her former long-term boyfriend, Tom Sandoval. And let me be so clear, when I say long-term, Daddy gang, I don't mean like, oh, they've been, they've been going steady for a couple of years. No, no, no. I mean, they were dating for nine years. They bought a house together. They have dogs together. They were planning on freezing embryos together. And they plan to spend the rest of their lives together.

• 4:23Alex Cooper?

  That is until Ariana found out that Tom had been cheating on her for nearly seven months. And Daddy Gang, he wasn't fucking some stranger or some chick off of Instagram. No, it is truly everyone's worst nightmare. He was cheating with one of Ariana's closest friends and fellow castmate, Raquel. A huge betrayal, as well as a complete and total blindside. But also fucking classic, right? The boyfriend and the best friend are cheating. Awful. This affair has been secretly happening the entire time season 10 was being filmed. And no one knew. But now, as we've seen, the news has leaked.

• 5:08Alex Cooper?

  Everyone is dying to see how this drama continue to unfold. Somehow, a new story is new every fucking week on this shit. And we've obviously seen glimpses. Almost every single castmate has spoken out about this. They have gone on podcasts, news channels, radio. I mean, this is everywhere. Even CNN and the New York Times have reported on this cheating scandal. Apologies have been posted, sides have been taken. Everyone is extremely shook and extremely invested. But the one person that we have not heard from in long form, and the most important person that we need to hear from for a sit-down, in-depth interview, is Ariana.

• 5:50Alex Cooper?

  I also want to point out, obviously, this is such a noisy scandal and everyone's like excited to hear all... I just want to remind everyone, this is Ariana's life. This was her relationship. This was her best friend. And when this happened, at the time, it probably felt like her world was turned upside down. So, even if you don't watch reality TV, that's okay. Because unfortunately, this episode is extremely relatable. Because it's about cheating, betrayal, dishonesty, manipulation, and heartbreak. So Daddy Gang, I'm excited to give you Ariana.

• 6:32Alex Cooper?

  And I'm excited to give her a space to open up and speak about this and have a really open, honest conversation. So here we go. Let's get into it.

• 6:43Alex Cooper?

  What is up Daddy Gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 6:53Alex Cooper?

  Hi. Ariana Madix, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Hi, thanks for having me.

• 6:59Alex Cooper?

  How are you doing?

• 7:02Speaker 01

  I'm okay.

• 7:03Alex Cooper?

  Can you explain what the past few months have felt like to you?

• 7:08Speaker 01

  Um, a roller coaster. I mean, truly like the lowest lows, I think maybe ever, maybe since my dad died that I've experienced. And then I wouldn't say the highest highs, but I would definitely say that there's been like some really amazing bright spots. And it sometimes feels like, I don't know, like a ping pong match in between those two extremes.

• 7:32Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  I have a tendency to like compartmentalize a little bit with emotions. It's the Virgo moon in me. But it's weird because also sometimes when I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm doing, I'm feeling good, like things are really positive. Then people on the internet will be like, why is she must have not cared? They're like mad at me for like healing, but then they like, you know, but that's the thing is it's like, everyone's always gonna have an opinion about like how you should live.

• 8:01Alex Cooper?

  Totally. Something I want to talk about is like, I think so many people have had something to say for so long about this scandal. And like, we haven't really heard from you about like start to finish in long form. Your thoughts, everything that's gone down. So today I'm hoping we can like put it all into one. You're like, okay, let me just, let's take a little rosé. Cheers, here we fucking go.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  Necessary.

• 8:35Alex Cooper?

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• 9:18Alex Cooper?

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• 10:00Alex Cooper?

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• 10:42Alex Cooper?

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• 12:11Alex Cooper?

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• 12:26Speaker 01

  Can you take me back to the night that you found out that Tom was cheating on you with your at the time best friend, Raquel? Like, I know you were at a concert of Tom's. His phone fell out of his pocket. Someone handed it to you to just take your boyfriend's phone and hold it. Take us from there. So they had like one more song after that. And so I was holding like my phone and his phone just kind of as a stack. And had no, like, there's nothing weird about that. I mean, we were together for nine years, like me holding on to his phone, his, you know, his laptop, his, you know, whatever. It's not weird. So they had like one more song.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  And then afterwards, I got up to go over to him and tell him like, good job and give him his phone back. And he was talking to some other of the band members. So he's a little preoccupied. He's a little busy. And I was like, okay. And then literally, I just, in that moment, I was standing in the back of Tom Tom and I just was like, I don't know. I was just like, It felt like I like divine intervention or something because you know, I've always been very hesitant to become like the snooper because I always feel like anytime you snoop in anyone's stuff, even if they're not guilty of doing anything wrong, you always end up finding something you don't want to find or seeing something you don't want to see.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  And I always feel like it's a slippery slope because once you look once, then you want to look, it becomes an addiction because I've been like that in past relationships. So in this one, I was always like, I'm not going to do that. And if I ask about something, um, I will, you know, take their word, Tom's word at, you know,

• 14:09Alex Cooper?

  Base value.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  Exactly. Like I will be someone who trusts because I don't want to become that version of myself.

• 14:16Alex Cooper?

  Totally.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  And so, but in that moment, I just had this thought, like this, like, go do it. This is like a time to do it. Um, and so I went into the bathroom at Tom Tom. I went into one of the stalls. Um, he had not changed the passcode on his phone. So I knew, and that's the other thing is like, we knew each other's passcodes. We knew each other's. So it felt like if you were going to be the type of person who is going to have an affair or be cheating or hiding things, you wouldn't also be so readily, uh, giving of your stuff like that. Um, and so I looked in his messages. There was nothing weird in his messages. And I was like, okay, you're being dumb, you know? And then I opened his camera roll and

• 14:58Speaker 01

  then that's when I saw what I saw and I like busted out of the stall and there were like some girls in there that were just kind of go to the bathroom. And I was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. And then because I didn't go to the bathroom and I thought they're going to think I'm leaving the bathroom and not washing my hands. I was like, I promise I didn't pee or anything. I just, and then I just ran out of the bathroom and went straight up to him. And he was like, oh, hey, do you want to go smoke a cigarette or something? And I was like, yeah, I do actually. And it's funny because there's a photo of him that I've seen like used in articles and stuff. And it's from literally the moment I was walking up and his arms like this and. I see that photo and I'm like, that was literally like the moment before. And then we went and then

• 15:43Speaker 01

  he was very, we went straight out to the back behind Tom Tom. That's when I confronted him. What the fuck is this?

• 15:50Alex Cooper?

  Okay, pause for two seconds.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:52Alex Cooper?

  I feel like no one is saying specifically what the video is. Are you guys not legally allowed to be talking about what the video is?

• 15:59Speaker 01

  I don't know, Ax, he can.

• 16:02Alex Cooper?

  I don't know. Can I say what I'm speculating? Yeah, I can say. I think the speculation is in the camera roll, there was a screen recording that he screen recorded while they were on FaceTime of them having FaceTime sex. That, that's what I'm thinking and I think I know is what it was, but you don't have to confirm, but just to give people context that may have no idea about this drama yet. I don't know how you would, you live in Iraq, but that, so you view something like that.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:30Alex Cooper?

  Can you just take me back in the stall? It's bring me to the moment where you come across realizing he's cheated on you with Raquel. What were you thinking in the stall?

• 16:41Speaker 01

  I was like shaking, like full body, like just like, I don't know if it's anger, shock, like I think shock is a big part of it. Because, I mean, I've been cheated on in my life before and I've, you know, caught somebody before like that and like way in my past and I guess it's like that feeling I hadn't felt in like, we're talking like 15 years and like, it's hard to describe, but it's literally like a combination of shock and anger and somehow disbelief that this is like truly what you're seeing. And yeah, and then like, there's just, I don't know, it's, it's really like a huge mix of emotions.

• 17:22Alex Cooper?

  It is, and like, did you think this was a one-off or did you immediately think this has been a relationship?

• 17:28Speaker 01

  I mean, there's no way that it could be a one-off, given the closeness of like all of our relationship to her, you know what I mean? So there's, there's no way. And also to feel so comfortable doing that on a FaceTime. You know, there's no, there's just no way of, of it being like a one-time, oh, we just decided one day to FaceTime sex.

• 17:47Alex Cooper?

  Right. Drunkenly, I'm like, who should I call? Well, I'm gonna call Raquel and just like,

• 17:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:52Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, no, okay.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:54Alex Cooper?

  So you start confronting him, what does he say?

• 17:57Speaker 01

  He was very, he wanted us to get into a car. He wanted us to get into an Uber and leave immediately. He was starting to call a car and then he took my phone and then I was trying to get my phone back and he ended up walking down San Vicente with my phone and I was in like boots with a peel so I was like like freaking Usain Bolt being like, I need my phone back like.

• 18:18Alex Cooper?

  Why didn't he take your phone?

• 18:20Speaker 01

  Because he thought, cause I was like, oh, I'm gonna tweet about this. I mean, obviously I'm not. But you know what I mean? Like you say things like that in those moments, you're not like.

• 18:29Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  Getting, I'm not calm about it. You know, I was freaking the fuck out. Um, and he was very concerned about people hearing us. Because obviously we know, we know a lot of people in West Hollywood, we know a lot of people at all the different bars and we were in the back of all these bars and he was very concerned about people finding out. And I was like, I don't care. Um, why would I care? Who am I protecting by doing that?

• 18:54Alex Cooper?

  So do you both get in a car together? And where do you go? Home?

• 18:58Speaker 01

  Home.

• 18:59Alex Cooper?

  What happens in the car and when you get home?

• 19:01Speaker 01

  So in the car, we were, so I called Rachel during all of this, um, after I got my phone back on San Vicente. Um, I called her and that's when I was like, if you ever gave a shit about any woman ever, about me as your friend, about literally anything. You need to tell me like when this started, whatever, like tell me, I was hysterical. Um, and she said, that's when she said the part about like after the girls trip and I was like, you mean when my dog died? Like when Charlotte passed away is what the girls trip was. Like the fact that that is not even on your radar at all. In describing this. Um, and that's when Sheena came up and that's when Sheena took her phone. And then said, I'm gonna call you from my phone. I'm throwing her phone in the gutter. Sheena called me from her phone.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  I get in the car. Sheena's on the phone with me and then he gets in the car and now he's on the phone with her. So all, all four of us are on the phone together. And it's literally like, why are you caring? Like, why are you on the phone with her? Like, who gives a shit about her right now? And then that's when he, he was just very dismissive, um, very defiant. Dismisses, dismissive of Sheena's friendship to me and to him in that moment. Like it was very much like just, and the poor Uber driver.

• 20:19Alex Cooper?

  We should get him in here.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  I know. I remember at one point we stopped. And got a pack of cigarettes. Cause I was like, I wanna just, I wanna drink on a chainsaw. You know what I mean?

• 20:29Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 20:29Speaker 01

  You get that, you're, I'm like, one of those nights, like, please. And he went into the gas station and I was just in the phone, in the car with the Uber driver at that point. And I was just like, are you hearing this? And the Uber driver was like, yeah, man.

• 20:44Alex Cooper?

  Uber driver was like, whoa, but like, give me five star, girl.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, it was just.

• 20:49Alex Cooper?

  So you get home and this is the part I think I've seen the world be so fascinated because you guys live together. You own a home together. So you both go home that night. And is it just like a screaming war till like you fall asleep?

• 21:02Speaker 01

  Essentially, yeah.

• 21:04Alex Cooper?

  Do you sleep in the same room?

• 21:05Speaker 01

  No, no, not at that point, no.

• 21:07Alex Cooper?

  So you sleep in a different room and like, when you're by yourself, like,

• 21:13Alex Cooper?

  what were you thinking?

• 21:14Speaker 01

  Oh, I mean, well, I made sure to text, um, close friends of mine and of his because I was like, I am not going to be in a position where, and luckily because of the Sheena of it all, like at least I was like, no, we're not keeping this a secret.

• 21:31Alex Cooper?

  Other people knew.

• 21:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I was making like texts were slowly trickling, like what is, what is happening? Are you kidding me? I mean, I didn't sleep. I mean, I didn't lay down to sleep until maybe like six AM. That was how long we were like going at it, I guess. And he was just mad at me pretty much the entire time.

• 21:48Alex Cooper?

  That's also, I, when I've been cheated on, it's like when someone that has been keeping a secret for so long gets called out, all they've been doing is lying. And so I feel like their natural response is lean in harder to like, trying to gaslight you, trying to distort your reality, like trying to make you feel crazy somehow and like not take accountability. And somehow you're like, how are we fighting? How are you yelling at me? Like, you fucked my best friend.

• 22:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I'm like screaming, crying, throwing up in this moment and you're just like annoyed at the whole thing.

• 22:22Alex Cooper?

  So that night ends and what we do know is like, when this happened, you guys were not filming anymore.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  No.

• 22:28Alex Cooper?

  So how long after this happened, did the cameras finally get in there?

• 22:33Speaker 01

  So this was Wednesday night. And so it was Friday morning that cameras were at my house.

• 22:39Alex Cooper?

  Because what I could notice, because we've all been through a breakup like that, is like the conversation in the finale that we watched felt more like a breakup than like post mourning, like literally go fuck yourself, like fuck you.

• 22:52Speaker 01

  Cause there had been that little bit of that space, yeah.

• 22:55Alex Cooper?

  The final conversation between you guys, it was infuriating, I think, for the nation to watch because he's blaming you, being like, I lost my mojo, we never had sex, like I wasn't myself, I wasn't happy. And he was quite literally taking no accountability whatsoever for his actions. What was it like sitting there, listening to someone as you're hurt, try to deflect all responsibility for what they had done?

• 23:21Speaker 01

  Uh, it was awful. It was brutal, but it was also what he had been doing for that past 48 hours up until that moment. So I almost kind of like knew that that's where he was headed. But then, listening to it in the moment, not knowing what other people around me are thinking when they hear it, I'm like, is this, am I, you, like, you start to really question your own sense of reality. And this whole thing had me, like, I did not at that point, like that 48 hours, especially that night, that Wednesday night and that Thursday day, like, and going to that conversation, without having any other, like, witnesses or, and also being in this position where it's like my

• 24:02Speaker 01

  partner of nine years and one of my best friends, like, I, my sense of reality was gone. Like, I just did not know, like, what was up and what was down at that point.

• 24:12Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. You were very vocal this season about defending Tom and Raquel when people would come to you and you like had their backs. If someone would have come forward, and I know this is a hypothetical, but if someone would have come forward and told you about the fair, do you think you would have believed them, or do you think you had to, like, see it yourself to believe it?

• 24:31Speaker 01

  I think I would have believed it if it was told to me off camera. Or if it was told to me, you know what I'm saying? Because I think, to some degree, a lot of what I felt was rumors and rumblings was, which has happened before, people being like, okay, I heard a little something about something, but I'm gonna bring it up because that's our job, is, you know, we bring up everything that we hear about. And a lot of times, it's nothing. And I was like, well, if it's nothing, I'm not gonna have, like, my friend and my boyfriend be like dragged through the mud.

• 25:03Alex Cooper?

  I get what you're saying. It's almost like being on On reality TV for so many years, you become almost more accustomed to, this is obviously for content. This is for the show. This is for the show. This is drama. This was like, you're not actually gonna believe that kinda shit. So if it was genuine, it would have come off camera.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  Right, or it would have, yeah, it would have been a friend who's like, I'm gonna end up bringing this up on camera.

• 25:24Alex Cooper?

  But I need to tell you.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  But I need to tell you first because I think it's actually really real. And I think that that's something that like my close friends would have done.

• 25:31Alex Cooper?

  Okay, I got it.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:32Alex Cooper?

  Okay, I do wanna take a step back because as much as we're talking about like in the weeds of like this affair, you were in a relationship for nine years with this man. And you guys were friends before you got into a relationship. What was it that first initially attracted you to Tom?

• 25:51Speaker 01

  I just thought he was so earnest in everything that he did. And I found it really like endearing that he would be over the top in making a cocktail or over the top in just everyday parts of life. Like I thought it very endearing and sweet almost. And I also thought he was a really good friend to the people close to him. And I thought that that was a really good quality.

• 26:16Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. How would you have described your relationship with Tom to someone?

• 26:21Speaker 01

  I would have described it as like, we used to call each other like apocalypse buddies. You know, like the person that all shit goes to hell and this is the person that you can rely on that you want with you. Who's gonna continue to like make you laugh and get through all of what life has to throw at you. And like honestly, even right up until me finding out about this affair, like even during while the affair was going on, we were still like laughing together, you know, having like our little, we had so many like little inside jokes and things like that. And I mean, if you were to go through like either of our camera rolls, you would see just like so many, even during the affair, amazing fun memories together.

• 27:03Alex Cooper?

  What was your sex life like in the beginning and then like as your relationship progressed?

• 27:09Speaker 01

  I mean, in the beginning, I was definitely struggling with, I was very excited that someone was like really, I thought really into me because the relationship I was in previously. Um, that sex life was fine, but at the same time, I was being like criticized very heavily about my body and my personality, just everything. Um, and so I was like, oh my gosh, this is somebody who's like really into me. And so that was very exciting. And I think that our sex life waxed and waned at different points. I definitely think that, you know, got to a point sometimes where, you know, I just wanted that quality time so bad. And I just think that in my mind, I thought, well, if we get through

• 27:53Speaker 01

  opening this bar, if we get through all this stuff, like then we'll be able to have all this time together. And I felt like he just was adding more and more things to his plate. And I just didn't, I don't know, I felt like, I'm like, oh, well, he's just not into me.

• 28:07Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, it's like you lose the connection almost. And I think that's something, because there's so many things you just said. First is from your past relationship going with someone that was very vocal about things they didn't like about you or your body or your personality, like that takes a toll on your self-confidence. So then to meet this guy that's larger than life and funny and jokes and is so into you, it's like, I totally understand that allure and like you feel like alive and like happy and good with yourself. In the season, I think probably one of the hardest scenes for women specifically to watch was that scene with you and Raquel. Where you open up to Raquel as your friend at the time, again, to people watching, Ariana did not know about the affair yet.

• 28:50Alex Cooper?

  And you voiced that you feel insecure about your body and you say, you know, why would he want to have sex with me? And for, and watching her. Speak to you knowing she was fucking your partner is so painful to watch, but I when I watched that, I felt so bad for you because I'm like, did Tom not make you feel confident and make you feel good?

• 29:13Speaker 01

  It felt like, you know, he would complain about frequency of sex and it felt like he wanted to have sex, but I was like, but do you want to have sex with me? Is it about me? Or is it just about the act? And that's where I was like, okay, so but what is it about? He wasn't really great with like the words of, you know, like descriptors. I would like be specific. Like, what do you like, you know?

• 29:41Alex Cooper?

  Right, like, what do you like about me?

• 29:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I need to know those, like, I want to know those things. Or I would be like, okay, well, do you like, you know, people have said that they think I have a nice ass. I don't know if I agree with that, but do you agree with that? Do you, and he would like be very turned off by the idea of me like, being like, can you, do you like? Like that part of me or like, what are the, you know?

• 30:07Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  And I think that it wasn't coming necessarily from a place of like, he didn't like my body. I just don't think he knew how to express or maybe that's just a disconnect there and like

• 30:17Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  love languages or how to like click in that way because

• 30:23Alex Cooper?

  I get what you're saying, but I also to any fucking guy listening to this, it's like when your partner is so clearly being like, I need some reassurance. I don't know the last time you've given me a compliment. That's also like a, hey, wake up, like, you want sex? Well, why would I have sex with someone that I don't know the last time I felt like pretty in front of you?

• 30:43Speaker 01

  I'd be like, can you objectify me maybe?

• 30:46Alex Cooper?

  Like, call me fucking hot.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  Right, or like he would say things like, oh, nice outfit. When I was naked or changing, he'd be like, nice outfit. And I'm like, I get the joke, but like, that's not

• 30:57Alex Cooper?

  It's not.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  connect, that's not gonna like

• 30:59Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  really get me there.

• 31:02Alex Cooper?

  Something that really pisses me off is when men try to justify their cheating by being like, but we weren't having sex, like I need to get my fix somewhere and like it's so often that women are deemed as the problem and of course a guy went and cheated like you weren't having sex, but it's like, but why weren't you having sex? And so was there ever a point where Tom or like the situation as you kept hearing it, like we weren't connecting, we weren't physical, was there ever a point where you were questioning, was that your fault?

• 31:36Speaker 01

  I mean, I think in the past I would have been inclined to do that, but because I was, had been in therapy and for years at that point, I knew and couples therapy with him, by the way, and the couples therapist literally sat across from both of us and said, this is a him problem, this isn't a you problem. You know, there's certain things I have to take accountability for in the relationship, but when it came to stuff like that, it's like, no, this is something that he's going through, that he's dealing with and don't take that on yourself, like just please don't. Cause it is my inclination to be like, I'm not enough, you know? We all have that lie, that whatever the big lie is that we all tell ourselves, mine is the not enough lie.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  And the therapist was like, please don't do that.

• 32:23Alex Cooper?

  Right, this actually has nothing to do with you.

• 32:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:26Alex Cooper?

  I know hindsight is obviously 2020 and it's like you can look back and try to, but like, were there any signs of red flags in the beginning of the relationship that you now see?

• 32:39Speaker 01

  I think in the beginning, it was like, you know, he likes to go out a lot. Um, and I thought that that was just like the phase of life that we were in. Um, and I would have thought that nine years later, we would be in a different phase. I think I'm in a different phase in my life. I still like to go out and have fun. I go to festivals, I party, I have a good time. But like as far as like going out during the week, just for the hell of it, it's not anyone's birthday, it's not, you know, it's not like a dinner and drinks. It's just like a, that's just not where I'm at anymore. And I thought that we were in that phase together and then we would come out of it. But I feel like

• 33:20Alex Cooper?

  He never grew out of it.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  He didn't really, yeah.

• 33:23Alex Cooper?

  When you look back, I know a huge conversation on the internet is your relationship with Tom. Started by him cheating on his girlfriend Kristen, you guys kissed, he lied to you and was like, I'm not with her anymore, but then it turns out Kristen was like, we were fully together. So, and people are like, oh, you lose them how you got them? Like, he cheated on Kristen, he cheated on you. Like, how do you feel? Looking back at how your relationship started and how people are now like, are you that surprised? Like, he did it to Kristen, he did it to you?

• 33:53Speaker 01

  Well, to be very clear, I didn't lose him. He lost me. So, that's right there, sorry. Um, but I think that I trusted in him so much, even like as a friend back then, and I trusted him so much, like during our relationship, that I trusted his perspective on things. And I think that I was caught up in whatever he told me, the, the, whatever it was that he was telling me was what I was going with. Like, that's not to say like, I'm a smart girl, like, you know, I could have dug deeper, but I didn't. Kristen and I are very close and I love her so much and

• 34:35Speaker 01

  their relationship, as she will tell you, it was very toxic and there was a lot of cheating on both sides there. Whatever. I love her. She's amazing. She's a very strong, incredible woman and she has become like just such a force. Um, I think that it's something that just goes to show that that's kind of maybe just what he does is he says things like, I tried to end it, or I'm, you know, things like that, or, oh, we're broken up, or things like, whatever it is, I would like to think that maybe this thing that's happening right now will prevent him from ever doing that again with any other person.

• 35:16Speaker 01

  Just because I think it's time to put that little tactic to bed. But yeah.

• 35:24Alex Cooper?

  When you look back, I'm just thinking like,

• 35:28Alex Cooper?

  Do you think he's a pathological liar?

• 35:31Speaker 01

  I mean, it's hard to, I mean, clearly in the last seven months, he was a pathological liar.

• 35:36Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  It's now hard for me to look back at nine years. And if I tell myself he's a pathological liar, then I means that the last nine years of my life were potentially a lie. But he did say stuff on that finale episode to Sheena, like, we weren't happy and we bought the house as a bandit. And I'm like, a bandit to who? Cause that wasn't where I was at at all. Um, or things like, there were a lot of things from his perspective that have been said in that episode. And otherwise that it's like, oh, okay. Well, that's maybe how you were thinking, but that's nowhere near where I was.

• 36:13Alex Cooper?

  Right. And also we're in a relationship, so you should have shared that to me because I would have loved to known that. Cause I probably wouldn't have bought a house with you. If you were like, just to be clear, babe, this is a band date. You'd been like, the fuck?

• 36:27Speaker 01

  Like, I mean, like, okay, well, maybe we should fix our relationship then now and do that and not do, yeah.

• 36:34Alex Cooper?

  Couples therapy.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 36:36Alex Cooper?

  Um, you and Tom got into couples therapy this past year and

• 36:40Speaker 01

  After he started the affair.

• 36:42Alex Cooper?

  After.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  After he was full blown at that point. I didn't know that, but

• 36:45Alex Cooper?

  So when you got into couple's therapy, you had no idea about the affair. You go in and he claims he initiated it. Is that true?

• 36:52Speaker 01

  Initiated couples therapy?

• 36:54Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  Yes, but it had been brought up by one or both of us over years of being together.

• 36:59Alex Cooper?

  Yep. And it's since been revealed that he got you both into couples therapy as part of his eventual plan to end the relationship. What explanation did he give you as to like, why he was so gung ho, ready finally for couples therapy?

• 37:15Speaker 01

  I mean, he was just, we got into an argument one day. Well, you saw on the show, we had that conversation on the couch. Um, and it was that conversation and then like one other one that we have where it was like, I think we should go to couples therapy. And I was like, absolutely. I would love that. We should do that. But it was those things in those conversations that led us to that.

• 37:37Alex Cooper?

  Yep.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  To going. Um.

• 37:40Speaker 01

  And I remember specifically one session. Cause we would do joint and we would do separate and in my separate sessions, I was doing inner child work. I was sobbing with her. I was, I mean, I felt like I was making leaps and bounds and he even said, oh, we went to couples therapy and our relationship got so much better.

• 38:01Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  But like, it's like, well, duh.

• 38:03Alex Cooper?

  Right. Right. Like it's almost like a little counterintuitive that if he actually had the intention of ending it with you, why the fuck are you going to couples therapy?

• 38:10Speaker 01

  I remember even saying after one of them, I was like, okay, so there was a session where it was, it got really intense. It felt like maybe we were ending and at the end of the session, she was like, okay, so is this, you know, a breakup or you guys, and he was like, no. So that's where it's like, I, I don't, I don't know.

• 38:34Alex Cooper?

  Can you, do you mind sharing like when, when you guys are fighting like, because obviously you're not fighting about the affair. What were your issues in the relationship?

• 38:42Speaker 01

  My issues is that I felt like he was not choosing me over like random nights out. Or that he just wasn't coming home. Like he would wanna just be at Schwartz's for no reason.

• 38:54Alex Cooper?

  Well, now you fucking know.

• 38:56Speaker 01

  Just, you know, having beers and whatever, or coming home and then, you know, I'd wake up and I'd be like, where are you? And I would like go down, he's just downstairs like

• 39:08Alex Cooper?

  Having FaceTime sex.

• 39:08Speaker 01

  Smoking cigarettes and probably, but like, you know what I mean? It was just like the absentee boyfriend without, and the, I have to do this for work after, you know, it was just everything was coming before me and before the relationship and I felt like, and I needed that connection and that stuff, that, all of that stuff in order to be physically intimate. And I knew that physical intimacy was something that he was saying he was lacking. So I'm like, I don't know how I can meet you where you need to be when I'm not being met where I need to be. Like, how do we figure this out?

• 39:40Alex Cooper?

  Right. It's almost like you both couldn't, it, it was a circle. It's like, no, but come home earlier. He's like, no, but like I'm miserable because we don't have sex. And you're like, but we need to hang out in order to have sex. And it's just like, it would.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  Like what I. said on the show, I was like, I can't teleport your dick into my vagina from the bar. Because if you're at the bar and I'm at home, like I'm here, you know, maybe I'm ready and you're just not there. So how do we do this?

• 40:02Alex Cooper?

  Right. Like, we can't actually physically do this if you're never.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  What like, exactly. So, yeah.

• 40:07Alex Cooper?

  So, Tom did mention on that Howie Mandel podcast, like, things did shift. You started to make an effort. Like, what did you making an effort in his mind, do you think, look like?

• 40:19Speaker 01

  I think I just was doing my best to be present and going out with him more and trying to be more fun, party time gal.

• 40:34Speaker 01

  You know, I was just trying to be, I don't know, like, fun and hot. I don't know.

• 40:41Alex Cooper?

  Right. Dude. And like, how the fuck did you feel when you were doing that?

• 40:47Speaker 01

  I mean, part of me was just like, I mean, this is fine. I, because again, I was still doing like that inner child work. And it was, you know, I felt like that was really helping me just be like, I love myself and I'm, you know, doing, I mean, that like really changed the game for me.

• 41:02Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. When you say doing inner child work, like, obviously share what you're comfortable with, but like, what was something that you were like really struggling with that was clearly like you felt bleeding into your relationship? That you were like, I'm gonna work on this shit because like I want to be whole and good with myself.

• 41:16Speaker 01

  I think, like, this sense of perfectionism, because, I mean, I love my dad, but my dad also like, didn't come home after work and stuff. And I was always like, straight A student, super overachiever. And I think like, going back and looking at it, a lot of times I did those things. I mean, maybe because I wanted people to be like, I'll be there. So I thought like, if I could be the perfect girlfriend or the perfect. Girl that they'll come home. They'll want to be around me and I'll be enough. I won't have to be me tap dancing, doing shrooms and hang gliding. I can just be me and that will be enough.

• 42:00Alex Cooper?

  It's isn't it so fucked when you get into therapy also? You're like, oh my God, like, is it this obvious of like, I I'm dating a version of my dad or like I'm dating a you're like, how did this happen? Like, my dad didn't come home? Tom's never fucking home.

• 42:15Speaker 01

  Like my, yeah, I mean, I I hate to speak ill of my, I love my dad. He's a great person in so many ways, but he would, you know, sometimes just be like, okay, where there's a random dive bar down the street. I'd go do that instead of coming home and helping with homework.

• 42:28Alex Cooper?

  But it also makes sense, Ariana, because weirdly we are attracted to things that are familiar to us. So it's like, if that is what you were growing up with, weirdly, you're like, oh, I fucking got this with Tom. Like, I know how to deal with this. I know.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  I can do it the the right way. Like, oh, I can do it right this time. I can kind of do it all over again.

• 42:49Alex Cooper?

  And be better. And actually, he'll come home. Watch, like, and then it's like, actually, you deserve so much.

• 42:55Speaker 01

  It's actually not on me. It's on them.

• 42:57Alex Cooper?

  No, you want someone that's actually wants to come home and you don't have to beg them to be like, come on, like, show up, be there.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:04Alex Cooper?

  You said that you hadn't considered ending the relationship before all of this came out. Were you truly happy in this relationship?

• 43:13Speaker 01

  I don't know. I think I was a version of happy that I thought was, I don't know what I wanted. And I also felt like the bones of the relationship were good and I felt as though the potential for the relationship to be just incredible was there. And I think it was the potential and the, okay, if we can make it through this time. The Fred again song, uh, we lost dancing. I literally, the night that Tom or that Schwartz and Sandy's had the like their last like opening thing.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  I was driving Tom home and I was like, just listen to the words of this song. And in the song, when, uh, I think it's the Blessed Madonna says, "If I can make it through this next six months, what comes next will be marvelous." And I literally was like, "If you can get through this, if we can get through this, opening of this bar and whatever, what comes next for us will be marvelous." And I, I just cannot believe that he'd already been having, at that point, he was already, I don't know, but...

• 44:27Alex Cooper?

  Dude, it's, it's must be such a mindfuck where you're like, which I also want, cause I know I've done it too, where like, I remember when I was getting cheated on and I didn't know it at the time and you're making such an effort and you're like, "I feel so fucking stupid, like, how dare..." And it's like, "No, no, no, you're not stupid. You were trusting the person you were in love with."

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:46Alex Cooper?

  And so it's like, you also have to wrap your head around like, "This wasn't your fault." But it's like, also crazy now that you remember these details of you putting in so much fucking work and be like, "We got this, Tom." My only question though is like, nine years.

• 45:01Alex Cooper?

  Now, when you look back, cause you're like, "Oh my gosh," like I was like, you know, I was obsessed with like, the potential, like, I really wanted the poten- Nine years in, if you're still fantasizing about the potential of what a relationship could be, do you now have any ability to look and be like, "Hmm, if I didn't..." You know what I mean? Like, or did you feel it in the first couple of years and then it dropped off? Like, was it always like this?

• 45:25Speaker 01

  I feel like, things would kind of, they would, they would wax and wane. They would be ups and ebbs and flows. And I feel like we would have so many amazing times. So then if there was like, a couple of weeks that were like, not great, or if I was like, mm, unsure about something, there was so much other stuff that was great. Or I would be like, laugh, we would be laughing hysterically about something, or- That it was almost like, I think, hard to say, oh, this person's not right for me. Because I also had never been in a relationship that long before. So it's hard to know, like, what is it supposed to be like? You know, because past, I, I think my, my, my longest adult relationship

• 46:09Speaker 01

  previous to that was, I think, like, three years or so. So it's like, past that point, this is uncharted territory. And I'm thinking, this is what it is. You know, when you're with someone for nine years, when you're with someone for maybe potentially ten, twenty.

• 46:25Alex Cooper?

  Right, like a fucking decade, decade.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  You know, things are gonna be hard sometimes.

• 46:31Alex Cooper?

  I get that. I actually think that's like, really relatable of like, you try to see the good, because there is good. But when it's ebbing and flowing, you have to be like, we just have to stay strong through the hard times, like, we just have to make it through this.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  People say that who have been together for fifty years, who have never cheated, and you have like, they're like, the greatest love story of all time, and you think like, okay, yeah, they said that we had some hard times, like, sometimes you have a year that's hard.

• 46:53Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  And I, you know, especially this past year, I went through a lot, and I felt like, okay, and he was going, I felt like we were both on our own going through these things. And so I thought, like, we'll get through this together, because, I mean, I'm committed to this man, and, but, you know, he, yeah.

• 47:15Alex Cooper?

  He had a full other relationship going on.

• 47:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 47:19Alex Cooper?

  This season, we found out a lot about your relationship. There, you had talked about like, how at times you would go through his phone, and he was open with you, and he would hand it to you, or, then we found out on Watch What Happens Live, you were like, I had the iPad password, you fucking idiot, like, they're always so stupid. Um, and Tom mentioned, you guys were only having sex four times a year, and you were living pretty separate lives. Were you lonely?

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, but no, because I had my best friend. So he would be so jealous of me hanging out with my best friend Logan. And he would be like, I feel like a third wheel when I go out with you guys. And I'm like, well, because you. You go outside and you are on the phone or you're do, you know, you. And so it's like, I don't want that for you, but so I filled that I filled that absence of him not coming home. And not wanting to do the same things that we wanted to do. I filled that absence with. The most incredible people I know, which are my friends.

• 48:18Alex Cooper?

  Which is like. Such like also a beautiful thing that you had great friends, but also kind of like. Clearly a deflector of like, instead of being like we, why are we never hanging out? I'm just gonna hang out with my friends, which is great. We love your friends.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  Right, because he was going and doing that, you know, and it was just like, or but honestly, though, the separate lives comment. To me is just so not true. I mean, to some degree, maybe, yeah, but when you're saying like, I have to work. I'm trying to open this bar and, oh, I have to go to dinner with Schwartz and Brett because we have to talk about the bar. And then, oh, I thought you were gonna be home right after dinner. It's twelve. Like, what are you doing? Oh, we just went to get drinks next door at Birds. You know, like, things like that. And it's like, okay, well, but then. If I, again, my camera roll and his camera roll, because I have it.

• 49:13Speaker 01

  If you look at it, it's we're still, we're going to concerts, we're going on dinner dates, we're. We are, there is some, there is effort being made somewhere of like, you know. Right, it just felt like it just wasn't enough.

• 49:30Alex Cooper?

  No, I get it. You obviously mentioned you went through a rough year. You lost your grandmother. You lost your dog. I'm so sorry. How were you mentally grieving during that time? And like, what was your relationship with Tom when you were grieving? Cause I know you've been open about like, when you lost your dad, Tom was there. He was like your rock. He was in it with you. He was like the person for you. And this time around was very different.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:59Alex Cooper?

  Were you concerned at all? Or were you just like full grieving? You didn't even like give a fuck and pay attention?

• 50:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was full grieving. Cause my concern, well with Charlotte, my dog, um, he was there with me. He held her as we said goodbye. Um, we literally said goodbye to her together. And then we went home and I put on my comfort movie, which is Love Actually. And we drank wine and we laid on the couch together and just like mourned together. And I, so I thought we were like fully on the same page there. I also know that like when it comes to, it was the summer. We do have to, you know, we have to film. We have to go do stuff. We can't just, we can't stay at home forever. And so a lot of times it'd be like, okay, well I have to, I'm gonna go film this.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  I have, I have, you know, Boys Night or this or that. And I was like, go do it because this is what we do.

• 50:55Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, it's a good career.

• 50:56Speaker 01

  And I maybe I'm not ready for that yet, but you go do it. Exactly. Um, and so I definitely had no idea that, you know, he would betray me during that time. Cause I thought he was also grieving. When it came to my grandma, I was so concerned with my mom. So I flew home to my mom and then I flew back, filmed the rest of the season, which was like one week left. And then I flew back again to Florida and was there for like two weeks. It was during the Hurricane Ian and everything. And I just, I just extended my stay, um, beyond the service and everything. And I just, my concern was really just my family.

• 51:32Alex Cooper?

  When you were grieving your grandmother? Isn't that when Tom and Raquel apparently were like at your house or something having sex? Potentially?

• 51:43Speaker 01

  Potentially.

• 51:44Alex Cooper?

  Potentially.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  I mean, he has maintained that that's not the case, but I don't trust what he says.

• 51:49Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  They FaceTimed me, the three of them, they FaceTimed me that next morning, like before any filming or whatever. So I was already aware that she had stayed the night because she, it was like, hey, good morning. Yeah, I stayed the night. Like, it was just no big deal.

• 52:06Alex Cooper?

  Is that one of the most painful things for you, aside from the actual fact that they were having an affair? Like, the casualness of just like, hey, girl, we're gonna FaceTime you together and they're your best friends. So you're like, hey, guys. And they like, literally just fucked?

• 52:20Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. It's the duplicitousness. It's like the, it's the backstabbingness. It's like, less about like, an affair. You know what I'm saying?

• 52:27Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  It's so layered. And it's just really bizarre as well. Like, it's just like, I can't wrap my head around

• 52:36Alex Cooper?

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  doing that.

• 52:38Alex Cooper?

  It's really twisted and sick.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  It is, actually.

• 52:52Alex Cooper?

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• 53:34Alex Cooper?

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• 54:17Alex Cooper?

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• 55:00Alex Cooper?

  Pandora Talisman, a new language of self-expression because every version of you deserves to be seen. Shop new styles in store or online at pandora.net. Tom claimed he tried to break up with you multiple times. And your response would be, I'm not going to let you leave. You're going to have to force me. That it.

• 55:20Speaker 01

  There was only one. Okay, so we tried.

• 55:23Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 55:23Speaker 01

  He's talking about those conversations that we filmed. So the one on the in the brown and white and then the, I don't know if that looked like try an attempt to break up.

• 55:31Alex Cooper?

  That no.

• 55:31Speaker 01

  Didn't look like it to me. And then there was another scene that didn't make it to air. That was pretty much along the same lines and that was where we like decided we were actually going to a couples therapy or whatever. That doesn't, that's not an, and then that was in September. So then we had literally all the way up until ju- Valentine's Day. I'm like, January, no, Valentine's Day is in February.

• 55:54Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 55:54Speaker 01

  So I'm like, what day is Valentine's?

• 55:56Alex Cooper?

  Where are we?

• 55:57Speaker 01

  Um, Valentine's Day, he got me flowers. We went to Schwartz and Sandy's. He pulled out a bottle of wine from our first trip we ever took together. So obviously also after we had celebrated our nine year anniversary at Musson Franks on January first. Like full, you know, like we, we went out, we had our anniversary dinner. Happy anniversary. Like, great night.

• 56:22Alex Cooper?

  Right, like.

• 56:22Speaker 01

  Like, we've, we were having sex in January, like, multiple times. So, like.

• 56:30Alex Cooper?

  So to, also to confirm to everyone that's not following all this drama, it's like Tom really honed in. Being like, I was really trying to break up with her, like.

• 56:40Speaker 01

  But you're like, sleeping in my bed and buying me flowers and we're going on an anniversary dinner and like.

• 56:46Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  Going to couples therapy and all of that. So the, the Valentine's Day thing that he has referenced.

• 56:53Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 56:54Speaker 01

  Um, again, got me flowers. We went to Schwartz and Sandy's for dinner. Um, brought a super special bottle of wine that was special to us.

• 57:04Alex Cooper?

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  Um, I got dressed up. I put like little hearts on my face. He was like, you look so cute. Um, we went out for drinks later. Rachel showed up, um, as did a few of our other friends. And then we went home and we were started kissing and he was like, I have to stop you. And then that's when he, we had this breakup conversation. Then at the end of that conversation, that was hours long. And the end of that conversation was, alright, well, let's continue this conversation. You know, and he was saying things in that conversation, like, I think I I'm having a midlife crisis, like, and I'm like, absolutely. And I said, if we break up, I'm probably going to quit the show.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  I will probably leave Los Angeles. I will probably deactivate my Instagram. And he found that to be, like, very offensive. He was saying, like, I don't know, like, I was never saying that I was going to kill myself. I was saying that my life, this life, will be over for me because I will go do something else. I've been fantasizing about moving to, like, the French countryside since I was a fucking child. And like, honestly, to be fair, like, in the conversation, it was quite tearful. It was definitely not like a positive conversation. Right. But I'm not talking about physically harming myself. And given the fact that we had that conversation over many, many, many hours,

• 58:31Speaker 01

  he knows that that's not what I was saying. It's not just like one comment and then we stop talking. So the fact that I feel like so many things that I've said, not just in confidence, it's just me and him. Like, we could sit here in a war of words all we want. It's my word against his word, right? Okay, that's fair. But at the same time, it's like, knowing me and knowing the conversation and knowing the conversations we had in the days after that, where we were still sleeping in my bed. And we were still going to, we went to a concert on February 19th. And there's videos that he has of me, like, dancing in the living room. And, you know, so it's like, okay, so why are you sleeping in the bed? Why are we continuing to hang out? Why do we have any sort of relationship if to you, now you're gonna go on a podcast and say, Ariana knew we were broken up?

• 59:16Speaker 01

  It's just like, in my opinion, I was like, you know what? I feel great about us having this open. I, I was really a rough conversation. It ended with, let's keep talking about this. Um, the next couple of days, we had more conversations. Um, I said, you are going to have to, if you think this is over, you will have to be the one to end it because I'm committed. I'm actually thinking that this is like the potential for us to like be even to be great because we're talking about stuff now that we haven't talked about yet. Like we've never really gotten this, this far down this road before. So yes, if you want it to be, if this is over to you, like you are gonna have to, like you have to do this. You're gonna have to leave.

• 1:00:01Speaker 01

  Like, that's not crazy. That's like a, like not all, I don't, we don't have to mutually agree upon the breakup. You know what I'm saying? Like?

• 1:00:09Alex Cooper?

  Not only is it not crazy, Ariana, that was gonna be my next question of like, I think the whole world watching it when Tom looked at Sheena and was like, I can't break up with her because she's threatened to kill herself. First of all,

• 1:00:28Alex Cooper?

  my problem with that, even if you had said that, which I appreciate you clarifying, but again, you didn't need to because it's like, number one, that's a huge fucking allegation to make about someone's mental health and to just casually say on a show when that's not the truth or it was the truth, shut the fuck up.

• 1:00:45Speaker 01

  I have dealt with suicidal ideation before and I have been in very, very deep, dark places before. Um, so to then be flippant about it, as if that's also something about me that makes me like deserve to be treated poorly is, is pretty awful, I think.

• 1:01:02Alex Cooper?

  I couldn't agree more. I also am like, when you saw that clip, how, how did you feel?

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  I mean, it made me angry, obviously. And then what Sheena said was like such a great thing, like even if that was exactly word for word what I had said, which no. But if it was, why did you do absolutely nothing to help at all? Like, why didn't you call my mom, my brother, my friends?

• 1:01:30Alex Cooper?

  Right. Instead you fucked my best friend?

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:01:34Alex Cooper?

  Tom knows. You have shared that you have struggled with your mental health.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  I have, yes.

• 1:01:39Alex Cooper?

  You have, he has clearly been next to you while you're going through things.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  And purported to be my supporter and my partner in that.

• 1:01:48Alex Cooper?

  Why, if you were gonna break up, why do you think you would leave everything and move? Like, do you still, well, now you did break up. You're not gonna do that, right? Are we going to the French countryside? Like, where are we going?

• 1:02:01Alex Cooper?

  Where are we going?

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  I'm down.

• 1:02:03Alex Cooper?

  But like, when you said that to him, you really were like, I'm out.

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  Because I didn't wanna do, I didn't wanna do all of this on my own or without him. And I didn't wanna like, just kinda like, be like, alright, I guess I'll move into an apartment in Studio City. And, you know, I just was like, that's not what I want. And I, I was like, if this is gonna change my life dramatically, not being in that relationship, then I wanna change it dramatically.

• 1:02:33Alex Cooper?

  I get what you're saying. It's like, I also appreciate, and I think a lot of people can relate to this. Randomly, sometimes when you have the worst fights of your life with your partner, it does feel like you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, cuz you're like, we have never been this candid. We have not spoken in this way. So, almost it allows for a dialogue where you're like, weirdly, we went backwards to kinda go forward.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  That is literally where I was at. I was literally where I was at. Because I'm also thinking to myself, a nine-year relationship is not a relationship that ends on a, with a drunken Valentine's Day. But by the way, we were wasted when we got home that night. So, I'm like, that's, you don't just have one wasted conversation.

• 1:03:20Alex Cooper?

  And end a nine-year relationship.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  Right, so.

• 1:03:24Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:03:25Speaker 01

  I, but to him, I, he was clearly, and obviously in that conversation, there was nothing brought up about him having an affair with anyone.

• 1:03:32Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  So, it's almost like, the whole thing, the whole thing was nonsense. And I remember asking him, I was like, why did you get me flowers? If you were like, I'm going to break up with her. And he was like, well, I really, I wanted to get you flowers. You just, I was like, oh my god.

• 1:03:45Alex Cooper?

  He really, it really feels like he really wanted to have both.

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  I think so. I think he was very committed to the double life.

• 1:03:54Alex Cooper?

  I agree. Cuz do you actually believe he was gonna end it before the reunion?

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  I don't know. Honestly, it's like hard to know. I do think that

• 1:04:05Speaker 01

  I've seen, I've seen some things. I've learned some things even after filming the reunion.

• 1:04:11Alex Cooper?

  Come on, give us the tea.

• 1:04:12Speaker 01

  Um, one of those things is um, a text message from Rachel to Tom saying, I just talked to a mutual friend, I won't name them. And they said that you should be honest with Ariana, maybe not so much about all the details, like sleeping in the house together. But that she deserves to know about this. And then it's like, I love you, you got this.

• 1:04:45Alex Cooper?

  Oh, so kind, just so, so generous.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  So I think it was only in that last little bit there, right before I found out that it was even, that I, that it was being workshopped.

• 1:04:57Alex Cooper?

  Right. That's when like, when I saw that they, they were like, we were gonna do it before the reunion because we could never sit in front of her and let her defend. I'm like, bro, that's what you've been doing. You've been sitting in front of her and letting her defend you and Raquel and everyone. It's like, why would the reunion be any fucking different?

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:05:18Alex Cooper?

  Oh my god, I fucking hate this shit. Okay, throughout this season, there were numerous comments from castmates about the dynamic of your guys' relationship. Again, before the, the affair came out. In January, you had to set the record straight that you and Tom were not in an open relationship. Why do you now with all the information, why do you think that rumor started?

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  Honestly, I think it came from him. I think that, which it's been denied, I'll say that. But I think that, so it came out that day that all, everyone was at my house, um, that you see on the show. That, I mean, obviously these conversations that are two minutes on the show are like two hours plus. And sometimes there are things that are said that are way worse than what is on.

• 1:06:07Alex Cooper?

  We're like, Bravo, give it to us, what the fuck?

• 1:06:10Speaker 01

  Like his and I, my, our conversation, there were things that were way worse. And then in that conversation with all my friends. I think it was Sheena was like, um, so one of our friends back when this stuff started coming out and rumors were rumbling, it was apparently Rachel told a mutual friend that she thought me and Tom were in an open relationship because apparently he told her that at one point and then when that got brought up, he was like, absolutely not.

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  I never said that. And I was like, well, you should probably take that up with your little fucking girlfriend. Cause she's the one who told that to someone else. And I, and you know what she said to that someone else? She said, even if that, she's like, I mean, I don't know if that's true, but I would way rather hook up with Ariana than Tom. And I think she said that because she was talking to a guy and she thought it was like hot, hot to be like, to say that. And so when Tom was like, I never said that, but I'm like, well, don't ask me. I'm not the one. That's information that's being brought to me that she apparently said.

• 1:07:25Alex Cooper?

  It's weirdly, I do think in a strange way that is helpful to know because that narrative now knowing what we know, it's like that didn't get put out into the world by like no happen. Like it's not like everyone's like Sheena and Brock are in an open and it's like, you know what I mean? It's like now knowing.

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  There's like a kernel of something that was planted somewhere that turned into something else.

• 1:07:50Alex Cooper?

  Like someone fucking knew it was an open relationship, but it was one fucking side.

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  There's one person, yeah. Cause the other person's like, absolutely not.

• 1:08:00Alex Cooper?

  Like I would have loved to have known. I would have been like, let me know. So I can like, you would have loved to known like many times earlier. So you're like, oh, let me get on the same page. You're fucking Raquel. Got it. I'm out. Like he was operating, telling people that probably so that it wouldn't get back to you because it's like an unsaid thing.

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  Oh, Bill, then they must have some sort of like trust, some rule. And so I'm not going to bring it up to her. I mean, that sounds fairly likely to me.

• 1:08:25Alex Cooper?

  Absolutely. Katie at one point said something along the lines of.

• 1:08:31Alex Cooper?

  Ariana doesn't care. She just cares when people talk about it and she doesn't want to look dumb. Comments like that insinuating you and Tom had a different relationship and understanding off camera than on camera. And those comments were pretty heavy throughout the season of like, they've got this thing on the side that no one talks about. I remember Lala went on a podcast and was like, they are the most different off camera. Like, how does that sit with you?

• 1:08:56Speaker 01

  I mean, to be honest, and I do love Katie and I do love Lala, but those were people who were not really in our inner circle like whatsoever for the last many years. And I don't think anyone within our inner circle would ever say anything like that. Um, if you were to interview Logan or Brad or even Sheena, they would not say that. And those are people that we spent like a lot of time together with, went on trips with, things like that. So, I mean, I get to them, maybe they think that that's fine, but they were not in our inner circle.

• 1:09:28Alex Cooper?

  Prior to the scandal, there had been other rumors of Tom cheating with other women. And it was disclosed in the finale that you did know about one of them in Miami. You guys weren't official. You talked about that. Now, knowing who Tom really is, how many people do you think?

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  I don't know. There was one years and years ago that I, I got a DM that was like, Tom hooked up with my friend in San Diego. And I was like, and I brought it up over and over and over and over again. Cause I was like, I'm drilling, I'm drilling. And I, and it was like, no, absolutely not. No, no, no. Like, you know what I mean? It was like, really just to know. That now, I'm like, no, I think that was a yes. Um, and then there's specifically the one that he said, oh yeah, there was one other time. I'm like 99.9% sure I know exactly who that is also.

• 1:10:30Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:30Speaker 01

  But that being said, how many, like, I, I don't know because it's like, I don't know. There, because I feel like he was so, I mean, there was stuff that he was getting away with that I learned out about, like, within the last month.

• 1:10:47Alex Cooper?

  Like what?

• 1:10:49Speaker 01

  Like bringing Rachel home to St. Louis.

• 1:10:53Alex Cooper?

  When did he do that?

• 1:10:55Speaker 01

  Um, apparently more than once.

• 1:10:57Alex Cooper?

  While you were dating?

• 1:10:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:01Alex Cooper?

  So his family knew?

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  It's hard to say like what exactly they knew or when they knew. I think they at one point they knew, but they were like definitely not condoning. And he wasn't, he was like putting her up in like a hotel.

• 1:11:17Alex Cooper?

  Like how diabolical to bring your side chick to your home like?

• 1:11:24Alex Cooper?

  Like, and were they not afraid to pop a rock like what?

• 1:11:27Speaker 01

  I guess, I I mean, it's St. Louis. I don't know.

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  But you know what? That being said, there were some rumblings even before I knew if whether or not that was true. There were rumblings of that on the internet. So definitely somebody had seen something.

• 1:11:44Alex Cooper?

  What do you think about the Billy Lee situation?

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  I do not think that anything happened. I don't. And I, the reason I don't is because. I mean, Billy Lee, I, I, okay. I understand that this sounds crazy because Raquel was someone I loved and trust. You know what I'm saying?

• 1:12:00Alex Cooper?

  Right. You're like, but.

• 1:12:02Speaker 01

  But I do really, I trust that Billy Lee would not do that.

• 1:12:06Alex Cooper?

  Have you asked?

• 1:12:07Speaker 01

  She has, we've talked about it. Yeah, based on people saying things online, she's been, yeah.

• 1:12:13Alex Cooper?

  Right. Has anyone reached out to you since to be like? I also hooked up with him.

• 1:12:19Speaker 01

  Um, they have not. I haven't had anyone do that.

• 1:12:23Alex Cooper?

  Okay, that's good for your mental health.

• 1:12:26Speaker 01

  Or are they scared?

• 1:12:27Alex Cooper?

  Are they scared? You'll be like on caller daddy like, yep, Brittany from fucking Australia said that like, no, dude.

• 1:12:35Speaker 01

  Honestly, I would not, if a girl, if any women did do that.

• 1:12:39Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, you're not.

• 1:12:40Speaker 01

  I would not put them on blast because honestly, at the end of the day. As much as I think that they suck for doing that because they knew we were together.

• 1:12:50Speaker 01

  It's a responsibility in my opinion of the person in a relationship.

• 1:12:52Alex Cooper?

  I also think weirdly now knowing the drama of like the open relationship rumor he may have been putting out. What, what I've always said like? Men, when they want to put their penis in something, they will say, at like a married man will be like. No, we're in the middle of a divorce. Later he goes home to his wife.

• 1:13:13Speaker 01

  She sadly, she.

• 1:13:16Speaker 01

  Passed like

• 1:13:17Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, she passed away.

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  I've seen that.

• 1:13:19Alex Cooper?

  Literally, like, she's not here, like, he, we don't even know how he's, it's already so diabolical, how crazy it's gotten that it wouldn't be surprising if every room he walked into in order to get a girl, like, it was like, we're on a break, or we're like, it just, it's, it's, I fucking hate men. Okay.

• 1:13:38Alex Cooper?

  Does, being completely honest with yourself, do you think you ever subconsciously turned a blind eye?

• 1:13:49Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah. But I think I was given a lot of assistance in doing that because I would bring things up, and I would be shot down. And, or I, again, with the, oh, let me see your phone. I think that I was given a lot of assistance in that, you know what I mean? Like, and he, he even said on the show, like, well, she didn't follow me. It's like, how much effort should I be putting forth in a relationship? Should I be stalking my partner?

• 1:14:20Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:20Speaker 01

  In order to know for sure, like, what they're doing, like?

• 1:14:25Alex Cooper?

  I get what you're saying, and I think also to women listening, like, we talked about you going through his phone and there are no texts. So it's like, at what point you have to just trust your partner? Cause then you start to actually feel crazy of like, and I being just like so untrusting, like?

• 1:14:47Speaker 01

  Right, and you're like, am I just like a fucking bitch? Because now I'm being, you know, that person that's just so like, so what? And am I their mom now that's gonna be like, every time they come home, am I gonna be like, alright, let me see your phone, you know, like, that whole thing? And it's like?

• 1:15:05Alex Cooper?

  And then you start to feel like the psycho, and they become the more normal one. That's like, you're so crazy, like?

• 1:15:12Speaker 01

  Well, and then they get to use that against you later on. So it's like, you're either not- Psycho enough to like not figure it out.

• 1:15:21Alex Cooper?

  Uh huh.

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  Or you're so, you're too psycho and they're like.

• 1:15:24Alex Cooper?

  They know how to hide that shit.

• 1:15:25Speaker 01

  Now I'm gonna break, exactly.

• 1:15:27Alex Cooper?

  They're like, you're so crazy. Here's my phone. Look. And it's like, well, then open the iPad if he didn't delete those messages. Did, were his messages connected to his iPad?

• 1:15:37Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:15:38Alex Cooper?

  Oh, you're so.

• 1:15:40Speaker 01

  And you know why? Because at one point they were and it was just like, we just get so many and it would just be dinging, ding, ding. So it was like, we gotta turn that, turn that off. This was years and years ago. It was just like the amount of, that's, I know. But the Find My iPhone app, I, you know, could see where the devices all were located. Um, and they were always located somewhere that they should be.

• 1:16:05Alex Cooper?

  Uh huh.

• 1:16:06Speaker 01

  The band rehearsal space or Schwartz's apartment.

• 1:16:10Alex Cooper?

  How much of the affair do you think happened at Schwartz's house?

• 1:16:14Speaker 01

  I think more than Schwartz is willing to let on. Cause the recording was at Schwartz's. And he apparently felt real comfortable there.

• 1:16:26Alex Cooper?

  Ah, yeah.

• 1:16:27Speaker 01

  In that sad, sad apartment.

• 1:16:30Alex Cooper?

  In that sad, sad location. Yeah. That's fucking gross.

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:37Alex Cooper?

  Um, do you think, you kind of touched on this a little bit earlier, but do you think you were so quick to defend Tom? Not just about this, like through seasons, you've always had his back. You've always been ride or die. And I think so many people, including myself, respected you for always being like, I'm gonna stand by my fucking partner. But do you think that you would be so quick to defend him so that people wouldn't think less of him? Or so that people wouldn't think less of you for being with him?

• 1:17:07Speaker 01

  Both.

• 1:17:08Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:09Speaker 01

  Definitely both. Because I didn't want people, I always saw a side of him that I felt like wasn't apparent on the show or on social media or whatever. I always felt like I saw a side of him that was like the home side. And so I always felt like if people could just see that part of him, they would like they would get it, you know? And then in turn, yeah, I mean, for people to think less of me, I mean, I don't, I don't want them to be like, oh, this girl's socks at picking guys a date. Although, I mean.

• 1:17:44Alex Cooper?

  No, we're, we're leveling up, Ariana. Okay, like it's, it's getting better. I've seen it's gotten a lot better. Um, when you look back on your time together, are you able to see any good or has what he's done completely tainted him and as the human he is?

• 1:18:04Speaker 01

  I don't think I'm there yet. Although, some of these edits on TikTok that come on my for you page that have like ceilings, that ceiling song is playing and it's like cute clips of, uh, I'm like, like, I can't, because I feel like, I mean, in that regard, I'm like, oh, that's maybe almost getting me there. But I feel like, I mean, he even said, oh, because I've done this, then that that negates everything else. And I was kind of like, I mean, it kind of does. I mean, it, it does. I hate to say it, but when you have an affair, you, you cheat like that. I do think it does make it very hard for

• 1:18:49Speaker 01

  the any, for me to look at the relationship with any level of like nostalgia and maybe years from now, but.

• 1:18:57Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. It's also again, like the level of like truly lying and actually having what seemingly no remorse almost between the two of them. You can't help but wonder, and I think the whole world was like, what else has this motherfucker done over these nine years? It's like, this is the one we know about. And then, oh, there was one in Miami and then there was one in San Diego. It's like, what else? Cause he's good at fucking keeping it close to the chest and he has no fucking issue lying to your face. So what else was there? Like, I get what you're saying. It's like. That's, that's difficult.

• 1:19:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:36Alex Cooper?

  That's difficult.

• 1:19:37Speaker 01

  And it also makes it feel like you look back on, on the relationship at times that you did think that were good, that were happy memories. And you think like, well, did, they didn't really like me or respect me during those times, right? Because, I don't know.

• 1:19:53Alex Cooper?

  What do you miss about the relationship?

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  Um, I would say, inside jokes.

• 1:20:03Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:03Speaker 01

  Being goofballs together. The fun, funny, just stupid stuff.

• 1:20:08Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. That like comfortability of like, you have like the same language.

• 1:20:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:12Alex Cooper?

  Like we know each other.

• 1:20:13Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:20:16Alex Cooper?

  There's a deleted clip from Vanderpump of you, Tom and Raquel in a hot tub in Mexico. And you say, it looks like we're in a throuple. That feels like a foreshadowing now knowing what we know. What specific moments did you have to look back on or you look back on now? That you're like, whoa, something so fucking shady was going on in that exact moment? And I, I didn't know, I didn't know.

• 1:20:42Speaker 01

  That one, in particular, that, that's the big.

• 1:20:46Alex Cooper?

  Right, he's like fingering her in the hot tub and you're like, don't.

• 1:20:48Speaker 01

  And I'm like, this is hilarious, you guys. Like, I'm so drunk, I'm like, this is so funny. And by the way, his whole thing about like skinny dipping and, and hang gliding. I went hang gliding and I clearly went skinny dipping, like, I don't know what the hell you're fucking talking about. Anyways, there's that, there were times where we would have like a bunch of people over at our house. And we have a guest bedroom and that guest bedroom gets used a lot by a lot of our different friends. Um, and her being one of them. And we would be like, we would have friends who'd be like, bring over the dogs. So like my brother would come and bring his dogs and, um, our friend Jessie Montana would come and bring Indio, which is like my dog's best friend. And Rachel would bring Graham over, who is honestly a terror.

• 1:21:35Speaker 01

  He bit me before.

• 1:21:38Speaker 01

  He's not a well-trained dog. Um, he's kind of a little jerk, but we would let it go because we're like, that's our friend's dog. Like, maybe he'll. And she would always purport it to be like, oh, it's because like, maybe like when her and James had him together that maybe like. It was the way he was raised as a puppy. And I'm almost like, clearly James was not. Like, I try to like move the food bowl and he will try to bite me. Like, he's crazy. He's very cute. But crazy. It's not his fault. It's not his fault.

• 1:22:09Alex Cooper?

  Right. The owner's fault. Train your dog.

• 1:22:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. Anyways, we would have people that would come over, stay in the guest room, stay on our couches. Like, it was, it's a very normal thing. And sometimes I'd be like, alright, well, it's like two. I wanna go to bed. Can we like turn the music off? Or can we, and my poor neighbor. Has so many times been like, hey, like, and I'm like, I'm up, I'm not even down there anymore. I have to like go down there and be the person's like, can you please? And it, it just was like so annoying. Um, and there were times where I would like go up to bed or whatever because it's late and I have a life and a career and responsibilities and. You know, twenty-eight-year-old failed pageant queens don't. And so they'd be able to stay up super late and hang and have no reason to get up the next morning.

• 1:22:56Speaker 01

  And that's fine if you weren't fucking my boyfriend also at the same time. And there were times like that where if I could go back and be like, why are, like, what's going on? You know, things like that.

• 1:23:10Alex Cooper?

  Do you think they ever had sex while you were upstairs?

• 1:23:13Speaker 01

  Yes, I do. I think they had sex in my guest room while I was sleeping in my own bed, that he and I went to bed in together. And then he left the bed and went to the guest room and fucked her. Yes, I believe that.

• 1:23:28Alex Cooper?

  God bless you. God, God bless you. Ariana. That's like.

• 1:23:38Alex Cooper?

  Trust issues, like how, like fuck, fuck him. Cause. How do you even begin to like? Trust someone after like that level of like nine years with someone and they're that fucking comfortable in the home that you co-own?

• 1:23:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. And like when people say Tom's house. I'm like, excuse me. It's my house.

• 1:24:03Alex Cooper?

  Uh huh.

• 1:24:04Speaker 01

  We own that house equally, so I don't ever want to hear that.

• 1:24:08Alex Cooper?

  In one episode, you said Raquel is kind, sweet and loyal and has just been a delight since the day I met her. How would you describe her now?

• 1:24:18Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, lost.

• 1:24:21Speaker 01

  Lost. Um, I mean, I don't know her.

• 1:24:24Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:24Speaker 01

  I realize now I never knew her. But I certainly don't know her now and we don't, I don't know anyone who does know her. And so it's hard to say, but based on what I've seen, lost and empty and just, um.

• 1:24:40Speaker 01

  Poten- I, I don't know.

• 1:24:41Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, I think a lot of-

• 1:24:42Speaker 01

  It's hard to say, cause it's like, I don't really know what's going on. Some of the behavior. Has at times seemed sociopathic.

• 1:24:49Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:50Speaker 01

  But at the same time, I'm not really sure, like, what is the real deal?

• 1:24:54Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, it just sucks that you were kind of in the middle of something that someone that has clearly no remorse. Was involved in. The destruction of also your relationship.

• 1:25:05Speaker 01

  Sure. And I, at the time was like, I kept telling her, like, it's okay to be, to make mistakes. It's okay to like. Fuck.

• 1:25:14Alex Cooper?

  You were so nice to her, Ariana. Do Raquel and Tom make sense together to you?

• 1:25:20Speaker 01

  No, no. I mean, unless he has changed everything that he has ever said that he's looking for in someone. Um, then no.

• 1:25:32Alex Cooper?

  How did you feel watching them on screen together in Raquel's apartment? Like, that was the first time we all kind of see them able to romantically interact with her like, oh, my gosh, this is so weird. We can't kiss on camera together. Like, how did it feel watching your partner of nine years, just literally the day before, I think it was, look at you being like, I'm going to her place. Yeah, I'm going like, also just so shameless.

• 1:25:56Speaker 01

  Oh, and by the way, after he filmed that scene with her, he came back to, to my house.

• 1:26:01Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:26:02Speaker 01

  And it was essentially, I mean, you saw how many flowers were there. So I, there were probably like fifteen people there. I still had not slept, still not eaten. My friend Janet came, got all kinds of, she was making French onion soup to like, because that's my favorite.

• 1:26:14Alex Cooper?

  I'm especially love hers. Oh, so good.

• 1:26:16Speaker 01

  So she's making French onion soup, our friends had all brought over like wine and we were just watching Drag Race. And every, it was, it was essentially a funeral, right? Because these were all also people who were friends with him and were friends with her. And they were like, we've lost these friends because we cannot like, in good conscience, there's no, there's nothing. They, they, we've lost them as well because we don't want to, there's no way I can imagine. If he's willing to do that to me, is he willing to do to you?

• 1:26:44Alex Cooper?

  Exactly. Diabolical.

• 1:26:46Speaker 01

  I can understand. And so he walked in the house after filming that scene, yelled at everybody. This is his house too. He, he referred to it as a party, that I was having a party. I went to bed, it was like nine PM. I finally fell asleep on the couch. He went upstairs, Kristen and our, another one, our mutual friends Courtney had to be like, you should probably go. Like, why are you here? And then eventually he left and there were paparazzi shots of him going back to her apartment after. So he came back to the house, yelled at everybody to like, get out of his house and blah, blah, blah. And then we find out later on, he was definitely like tuning into like the cameras in the house like watch. Like we were doing literally nothing.

• 1:27:26Alex Cooper?

  We were, you called it a party, we were having a funeral. Thank you.

• 1:27:29Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:27:30Alex Cooper?

  You're done. Bye.

• 1:27:31Speaker 01

  So, but that scene was very cringe on so many levels. And I think it was that scene and that that conversation that I watched that made me when you asked me like, did they make sense to you? I was like, no.

• 1:27:43Alex Cooper?

  It was awkward.

• 1:27:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:45Alex Cooper?

  The whole thing of her being like, I love you. And he was like, no, I said, they love you, but I love you too. Like, how did you also feel knowing that they said to each other that they love each other?

• 1:27:55Speaker 01

  I mean, I kind of knew that before watch, I mean, I knew that before watching it, that that was like.

• 1:28:00Alex Cooper?

  Where they're at.

• 1:28:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it was cringe.

• 1:28:05Alex Cooper?

  Do you think Tom misses you?

• 1:28:08Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, I do.

• 1:28:10Alex Cooper?

  Do you know that? Like, has anything been said?

• 1:28:13Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:28:14Alex Cooper?

  You just know.

• 1:28:14Speaker 01

  I just feel like as someone that he would go to for advice on mostly everything, um, up until like that moment, or I just think that there's no way that he doesn't because he's been making a lot of like very questionable decisions over the last two months. And he doesn't have that like sounding board or that advisor anymore.

• 1:28:37Alex Cooper?

  What is the extent of an apology that you've received from each of them at this point?

• 1:28:42Speaker 01

  Hers was like a nothing. Hers was a text message that was very like, I just don't know what to say, except that I'm sorry. Like, that was it. That was that day. It was March third that I got that one. That was that night I went to a concert. Um, to see Tovlo. My friends were like, let's get you out of the house.

• 1:29:04Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:29:04Speaker 01

  Go, just do something fun and then we'll go back and we'll heal. But, um, and then at the reunion, it was very, um, subpar. It was like a rehearsal speech and I was just like, shut the fuck up.

• 1:29:18Alex Cooper?

  Right. It's like someone told you to say these exact lines, like nothing is inside here.

• 1:29:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, nothing had clicked. I didn't feel like it was genuine.

• 1:29:26Alex Cooper?

  Also, that kind of text message, you're like, that is the kind of text messages you send when like, you were a bitch the night before because we were drunk and you said some things and you're like, I'm really sorry. I don't know what to say. I'm embarrassed. Like, you had a almost year affair with my boyfriend. Like, maybe you should send multiple pages of an explanation and like, okay, and what about Tom?

• 1:29:48Speaker 01

  Well, obviously you saw how well I told you how the that night went um the next day not much better. And then that scene that you saw, which was two hours and there was a lot of like way worse. Things that he said um.

• 1:30:02Alex Cooper?

  Like what like what is he saying?

• 1:30:04Speaker 01

  Like at one point he was like, oh, well, I'll keep taking care of the house like I always do.

• 1:30:08Alex Cooper?

  What is his obsession with like the batteries and the fucking toilet paper? He's like, I take care of this house like.

• 1:30:13Speaker 01

  He has an assistant.

• 1:30:14Alex Cooper?

  Like right.

• 1:30:15Speaker 01

  She goes and gets the like he says, hey, we need this and she goes and gets it like it's not like.

• 1:30:19Alex Cooper?

  No, I saw I literally saw a ticked off of a girl being like. How did not get cheated on one oh one and she's stalking the house with like batteries and toilet paper and like if only Ariana had stocked the toilet paper.

• 1:30:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:30:30Alex Cooper?

  Maybe like he acted as if like that was a huge point of contention and like why he cheated. He's like. She would never stalk the house like Ariana didn't do these things and you're like. Bro.

• 1:30:42Speaker 01

  I noticed, yeah, like over the last two months, I've noticed like. There was one day I was doing, I think I was shooting spawn con like downstairs at one point. And all of a sudden he's like asked his assistant, like, does she know where the ladder is? And it was by me. So she brought it and he's like. I'm gonna change the filter on the air conditioner. I'm like, what? You wouldn't do that now because you it's like now you have this thing you have to like. Uphold that you like do all these things.

• 1:31:04Alex Cooper?

  I am the man of the house. It's like chill.

• 1:31:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, so.

• 1:31:09Alex Cooper?

  It it's so cringe um. Would you go back and change anything you did?

• 1:31:16Speaker 01

  Honestly, I want to say. No, because I feel like.

• 1:31:24Speaker 01

  Listen, I've seen people online be like, she wasn't perfect. Well, obviously.

• 1:31:29Alex Cooper?

  Who is?

• 1:31:30Speaker 01

  Person. She's not innocent. Okay, I don't have to be um. I was very much a committed. Partner in this relationship faults. What is it? Warts and all. I was very much committed and I feel like I was doing my absolute best as a partner. Um. But. I don't think I would do anything differently just because I feel like. All I can do is my best and whether my best was good enough or not for anyone. Um, that's what it was. And I feel like, yeah, I could have been less trusting. I could have been more paranoid or I could have been, I could have followed or I could have

• 1:32:11Speaker 01

  bought pens and batteries or whatever. But um, ultimately, I think that if I go back and try to like change all the things that I would have, could have shut up. I mean, I would never stop. So.

• 1:32:23Alex Cooper?

  Do you think that had you not caught him? Do you think you guys would still be together?

• 1:32:31Speaker 01

  It's hard to say in this moment because you know, there was this, uh, there was a plan. Um, still together.

• 1:32:41Speaker 01

  I almost think no, given that I know about this plan now.

• 1:32:46Alex Cooper?

  Can you explain what the plan was to people?

• 1:32:47Speaker 01

  The plan was, I think, to end the relationship under the guise of like that Valentine's Day conversation. Um, for that to eventually stick, eventually that would be the, that was the end game to break up with me without any mention of any sort of affair or cheating or anything. Um, whether that was pre reunion or not, or pre going to film Winter House or not. And then, you know, go about whatever and then they would just start dating.

• 1:33:25Alex Cooper?

  Yep.

• 1:33:26Speaker 01

  But the narrative that he was the victim in our relationship or that I was just, I just suck. So, um, would have already been planted. There, I think that was part of like a, there was a master.

• 1:33:38Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:33:38Speaker 01

  Plan.

• 1:33:39Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, it's a little wild to see like how much he was working it towards the end there. Like you guys weren't really in this season that much. And then to watch like halfway through or even a little bit farther than halfway through. He just is coming out of the woodwork complaining to Tom. Oh my gosh, we're not connecting. We don't have sex. I don't know, like it is pretty diabolical now that you watch it of like, oh, this was a whole plan. Set the stage. I'm not happy. We don't have sex. We don't connect and then end it and then and all he thought was gonna work perfectly and thank fucking god it didn't because it's disgusting.

• 1:34:19Speaker 01

  I know, I'm actually like, there was at one point, um, I think it's him or Schwartz had said to me at one point, like, I'm so sorry that you found out this way. And I was like, I'm so glad that I found out this way. Because if I had found out the way that y'all had planned, it are like, are you kidding? Like it would have been, I would have been just a cog in the machine of, of this whole narrative, this whole thing.

• 1:34:48Alex Cooper?

  Do you ever think back to like that night with the phone and you're like, thank god.

• 1:34:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I also think, what the, what was it? It felt like, like a beam, like, I hate to say a lightning bolt.

• 1:35:02Alex Cooper?

  No, literally.

• 1:35:03Speaker 01

  But it really truly felt like a lightning bolt of do this right now. And it's like, I don't know, that's why I say like if felt like some sort of divine intervention because like, and I'm, and I'm not like, I don't really believe in God. I don't know. Like I don't, I'm not a religious person by any means. There was something that just went, like something went off and it's so weird. Because I don't know how to describe it because like so many other times I would have been, I could have, he even asked me that. He was like, why didn't you go through my phone? Um, you know, when I was sleeping or whatever. And I'm like, because I just didn't ever want to do that and be sneaky like that. Like I don't want to be sneaky and that makes me feel sneaky. But yeah.

• 1:35:48Alex Cooper?

  Thank god. A woman's intuition is never wrong. Um, what have you now uncovered that repulses you about this whole situation?

• 1:35:58Speaker 01

  Um, the flying her to different places. Um, I know that she was, uh, that I watched what happens live appearance where Schwartz was covering his mouth and acting all weird.

• 1:36:10Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:11Speaker 01

  It's because she was in the hotel room.

• 1:36:14Speaker 01

  She was there in New York. I know for a fact.

• 1:36:19Speaker 01

  He was, he was so. He was using like other people's credit cards and things to like, like basically making them pay for things and then Venmoing them later so that like, it was just really messed and and you know what honestly it makes me really upset is I feel like he put people in a position that they felt like they didn't know what to do. Um, and I feel bad because I feel like it that just I can only imagine how heavy like how much that weighed on them.

• 1:36:55Alex Cooper?

  Like this was a whole fucking operation that he started to get running where it's like the credit card here have someone book her in the hood like it was like

• 1:37:06Alex Cooper?

  who knows how much farther it would have gone.

• 1:37:08Speaker 01

  Sure. And having the band and the touring and stuff like that, I feel like was a very easy way to be like, well, I have to be out of town and then she could then be flown to wherever that show was. And I would have no idea because he's coming home exactly when he's supposed to come home. Of course he's out late, he's playing a show like there's nothing about it like he's very was very good with with that.

• 1:37:32Alex Cooper?

  It does start to make you wonder was the is this band just a whole cover for this affair because like objectively, I know you were in love, Ariana, but like it's not great. It the the band's not great.

• 1:37:45Speaker 01

  I feel like it's gotten, well, wait, has it gotten worse?

• 1:37:49Alex Cooper?

  Or did you just open your eyes?

• 1:37:53Alex Cooper?

  Can you now just like unbiasedly look at it and be like?

• 1:37:59Alex Cooper?

  That, those were love goggles. And now we flicked them off and you're like, hey, don't need to watch that anymore. Do you know if there was a night ever that you had sex with Tom this the same day he had sex with Raquel?

• 1:38:12Speaker 01

  I don't know that. I don't know that. Oh, that would be.

• 1:38:17Alex Cooper?

  Extra therapy sessions for that week.

• 1:38:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would love to know.

• 1:38:23Speaker 01

  Well, well, I've already, I've already had my pain. I'm I'm good.

• 1:38:28Alex Cooper?

  Right. So now it would just be like, oh, of course, like an LOL moment. Right. We've already gone through the worst. Now like just like the details just become like, oh, that's.

• 1:38:36Speaker 01

  But then you see like sometimes it makes me laugh because at this point it's like it is so. Again, you asked that question and I'm like, I don't

• 1:38:45Alex Cooper?

  Maybe.

• 1:38:46Speaker 01

  So, but seems like a no.

• 1:38:47Alex Cooper?

  Right, right.

• 1:38:49Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:38:50Alex Cooper?

  The reunion airs this week. How did you feel going into the reunion and how did you feel walking out of it?

• 1:38:59Speaker 01

  Um, I felt going into it like, it had only been like, what was it? Okay, March first. We filmed the reunion March twenty third. It had already felt as though it, it felt like there was like a, a wall, like a divider had built, had been built somehow between the current, the past and the present. And that feels so weird and maybe that is again, like a compartmentalizing coping mechanism. But it also felt as though going into it, we were all on the same page, like, and that's never happened. So that I felt gave

• 1:39:40Speaker 01

  not just me, but Sheena, Lala, Katie, James, we all had this like vote of confidence amongst our, each other. And we all knew that we were all on the same page with that. And so it felt, it felt like a, a boost of confidence in that way of just knowing like, I don't have to sit here and question of whether or not I'm right or not, wrong. Or if Lala's right or wrong, or if James or Sheena or Katie is right or wrong, we know and we feel that like deep in our gut. And that right, that felt good.

• 1:40:12Speaker 01

  It was weird. I mean, honestly, that, that three weeks was like, really fucking weird. And so to go into a reunion and I'm A, not sitting next, sitting next to him, but I'm also not, like he would say stuff and I would be like,

• 1:40:30Speaker 01

  because normally I would be like, well, what he's trying to say, because he'd, he'd always almost like needed a translator at times because he would have an opinion that we had, we had talked about things, you know, at home. And so I, I understood where he was coming from or like what he was trying to get at, but like then he would voice it and no one else could get it. So I would be like, okay, so what do you really, this is what we're, what do you, and so to be there and

• 1:40:55Alex Cooper?

  Like sink yourself.

• 1:40:56Speaker 01

  Not my job.

• 1:40:57Alex Cooper?

  What was it like sitting and having to listen to Raquel?

• 1:41:03Speaker 01

  Painful. And not painful in the sense of like, she hurt my feelings. Painful in the sense of like, I really did not feel like she was connected to the moment or reality at all. I really feel like, again, then, March twenty-third. That the two of them, both of them, somehow, maybe it was be like they were feeding it to each other. Cause I don't know who else would be, they thought, people are just mad. I'm a little mad at you and like, we'll be fine. Like, I think that's like where both of their minds were at. And so the, the gravity of what they had done or were doing or whatever, it was just not hitting.

• 1:41:48Speaker 01

  At all. He was still, I mean, look, I think she just. I don't know. And I told her, I was like, I mean, I don't know why you're sorry now. You thought you were a hot shit when you were doing it, right? You thought, like, are you kidding?

• 1:42:06Alex Cooper?

  How would you describe your emotions during the reunion?

• 1:42:09Speaker 01

  I was angry.

• 1:42:13Speaker 01

  At times I was sad, but I honestly think that the biggest thing that I felt that. There was like a question that was asked towards the end that I was just like. I was so grateful for my friends, both the friends that were there that day and otherwise. And I honestly, a lot of it felt numb in a way.

• 1:42:38Speaker 01

  Because it felt like, as angry as I was, it was almost difficult to connect to. Well, once you go angry, it's very hard to like come back from that. And yeah, that's where I was, I think.

• 1:42:52Alex Cooper?

  Was there anything you went into the reunion with of like? I'm making this up like I'm not gonna look her in the eyes or I'm gonna make sure that I don't look him in the eyes.

• 1:43:01Speaker 01

  No, literally, I was like, I'm not looking at either of them. I will communicate to Andy or to Lisa if I have to look in that way. Otherwise, I will speak to the, the emptiness. The, the soundstage.

• 1:43:13Alex Cooper?

  Was that like your only thing?

• 1:43:13Speaker 01

  No, literally, that was me. Like, I was like, I'm not looking at either of them. And then eventually, a couple of times I did, but I mean, that was.

• 1:43:20Alex Cooper?

  You were like, was that your main thought going in?

• 1:43:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was just like, I will not speak to them. I will speak, like, I will answer.

• 1:43:28Alex Cooper?

  Right, but I'm not even addressing you. You don't deserve my, I get it. Um.

• 1:43:35Alex Cooper?

  Did you feel like you were able to get closure from the reunion?

• 1:43:39Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, I honestly felt like I had closure before that, before the reunion. And then at the reunion, I mean, I said what I felt like saying in the moment, but I honestly felt as though

• 1:43:55Speaker 01

  everything that happened. I think I even said it, but it didn't make it to air, but I was just like, you, this happening? I mean, you made it really easy for me to just not give a shit about you. Like, breakups are hard. You miss the person. You know, you think, what could I have done? What could they have done? Are we gonna get back together? You know, you have all these things, right? When you go through a breakup. But when something like this happens, you're like, bye. Like, there's literally nothing about that person. Even if I missed him, like, in the first few days, like, even that feeling of missing him.

• 1:44:41Speaker 01

  That's not who, whoever that is, is not that person, so.

• 1:44:44Alex Cooper?

  I feel like that's also a good bit of advice for people listening that maybe be going through something similar of like. Sometimes weirdly, the more that the person hurts you in terms of how they decide to betray you, you can find some type of hope of like, that just made it so much easier to never look back. And that is even more hurtful to fucking person that fucked with you. Cause it's like, it would have been like, if I kinda, if you fucked up a little bit and we had a fight and then we did, like, he closed that door, you didn't even have to fucking push it.

• 1:45:20Speaker 01

  Oh, he slammed that door shut. And I almost think that that was why the elaborate plan was what it was, is because then I would, then I would wanna get back together, right?

• 1:45:31Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 1:45:31Speaker 01

  Or I'd be sad, or I would be, you know, struggling.

• 1:45:34Alex Cooper?

  No, it's thank fucking god. Thank god.

• 1:45:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:38Alex Cooper?

  Was there anything specific that was really hurtful that he said to you?

• 1:45:48Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:45:49Alex Cooper?

  That you kinda can't shake still?

• 1:45:53Speaker 01

  I think it was the, it was the way that he weaponized any struggle I've ever had with my mental health. That to me was like the most hurtful.

• 1:46:11Alex Cooper?

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• 1:47:31Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:47:32Alex Cooper?

  There's something so wild that's gonna be revealed in the reunion that could potentially have you guys not wanting to sign back up to be on the show. Have you thought of, I know your group chat must be going off, like.

• 1:47:40Speaker 01

  No, we all are just, we haven't even, I'm like, and I'm very like, because I've talked to like our showrunners and stuff and I'm like, I think I know like what the deal is. But I am like, not entirely sure.

• 1:47:53Alex Cooper?

  There's a couple, there's a couple of things out there. Raquel's pregnant.

• 1:47:58Speaker 01

  I, I don't think so.

• 1:47:59Alex Cooper?

  Affair started during James and Raquel era.

• 1:48:02Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 1:48:03Alex Cooper?

  Right, but like, then that's, is that that crazy?

• 1:48:05Speaker 01

  Right, because what difference really would that make?

• 1:48:07Alex Cooper?

  We all hate them, we still hate them, okay. Lisa knew the whole time.

• 1:48:11Speaker 01

  I don't think so. I, I don't, I don't think so.

• 1:48:15Alex Cooper?

  I have.

• 1:48:15Speaker 01

  She would have brought, here's why, she would have brought that, she would have brought that up.

• 1:48:20Alex Cooper?

  Right, like I had it.

• 1:48:20Speaker 01

  Very early on, because again, there's a lot of speculation of like things being staged and whatever.

• 1:48:26Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:48:27Speaker 01

  This all happening after filming, just from a, just from a logistic production standpoint. Not to mention the fact that like, this is my real life and these are my real feelings and this is something we're really going through.

• 1:48:38Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:48:39Speaker 01

  But for those naysayers, just from a production standpoint.

• 1:48:42Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:42Speaker 01

  Something like this happening months and months afterward, not filming, and there's no cameras around and they had to borrow a crew from Housewives of Beverly Hills even film after. That is a nightmare for production and for our show, because. They want every, everything that's gonna happen. It's like you want that to happen in real time while we're filming.

• 1:49:02Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 1:49:03Speaker 01

  Cause otherwise you lose it. It's gone. It's hearsayer. It's this, you know,

• 1:49:07Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:49:07Speaker 01

  Something happens off camera. That's like not ideal.

• 1:49:10Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:49:10Speaker 01

  So again, if Lisa knew she, there's no way that's.

• 1:49:14Alex Cooper?

  Right. On the last one I have written down, which I think is, I mean, this would be fucking awful. Raquel hooked up with Brock.

• 1:49:20Speaker 01

  Oh, no, no, I don't think so. No, no, there's no way.

• 1:49:24Alex Cooper?

  What is something that could come out that would make you not want to go back to the show?

• 1:49:29Speaker 01

  I mean, anything that like makes me feel unsafe.

• 1:49:34Speaker 01

  Or for my dog to be unsafe and something like that. It's like anything safety wise would be, I think, the only thing that would make any of us be like, we're not coming back to film. But I mean, I can't see that.

• 1:49:48Alex Cooper?

  Like what the fuck? I know. I guess we're gonna see.

• 1:49:50Speaker 01

  I mean, I kinda have an idea.

• 1:49:52Alex Cooper?

  Do you want to tell us?

• 1:49:53Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:49:55Alex Cooper?

  I'm like, okay, you'll tell me off camera.

• 1:49:56Speaker 01

  We're like, then I really won't come back to film.

• 1:49:58Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, then you're literally kicked the fuck off and I get sued. So that'd be fun. Okay. But you think you have an idea?

• 1:50:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:03Alex Cooper?

  Is it as bad as everyone speculating?

• 1:50:05Speaker 01

  I don't think it's something like that crazy or that wild.

• 1:50:08Alex Cooper?

  It's just like more drama.

• 1:50:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so. But I don't know. Cause again, like

• 1:50:13Alex Cooper?

  You could.

• 1:50:13Speaker 01

  I haven't seen it. So I don't.

• 1:50:15Alex Cooper?

  I get it. Okay. Let's get like happy for five seconds.

• 1:50:17Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:50:18Alex Cooper?

  Okay. Because what I.

• 1:50:20Speaker 01

  Should we have more rosé?

• 1:50:21Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, can we have a little bit? Yeah, let's, let's pour more rosé. What I appreciate in you being really open today is like, I said to you when you walked in, this is sadly really fucking relatable. I remember sitting on the bed in New York city and being like, he hasn't done anything. I just have the fucking feeling.

• 1:50:42Speaker 01

  Of, I need to.

• 1:50:43Alex Cooper?

  And I looked him in the eyes, Ariana, and I said, I need you to open your iPad.

• 1:50:50Alex Cooper?

  And he's like, I'll give you my phone. I said, no, the iPad.

• 1:50:53Speaker 01

  Oh my God. So what was it on that? What was the?

• 1:50:56Alex Cooper?

  Fully having a sexting nude with his nutritionist.

• 1:51:03Alex Cooper?

  He was a professional athlete and he would show me his nutritionist all the time like she recommended the bison and I'm gonna eat the bison.

• 1:51:09Speaker 01

  Oh right, because he's like, her advice is like so great.

• 1:51:12Alex Cooper?

  And he would talk about her. He would talk about her to me and I remember when he opened it, she was not the first person I went to cuz I was like,

• 1:51:21Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:51:21Alex Cooper?

  Cause you're just seeing, okay, her, whatever.

• 1:51:22Alex Cooper?

  But you know what's crazy? I didn't even need him to open it. The minute I asked him and I put it down in front of him, I pulled it out from my back. I said, open it. He went ghost white. I didn't even need him to open it. I was like, oh. Uh huh. Like I knew and then I saw it and I remember going into the bathroom, throwing up. And I think we can talk about this a little bit, which is, I wouldn't say it's like embarrassment, but there's like a level of for five seconds because this is also the person you love.

• 1:51:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:56Alex Cooper?

  Your love doesn't go away the minute you see it. You hate them, but like,

• 1:51:59Speaker 01

  Right, yeah.

• 1:52:00Alex Cooper?

  Five seconds ago, I was in love with this person. You, there is a part of you that wants to be like, no, no, no.

• 1:52:07Speaker 01

  There's no way, yeah.

• 1:52:08Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 1:52:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's not real.

• 1:52:10Alex Cooper?

  It's not real.

• 1:52:11Speaker 01

  But it is.

• 1:52:12Alex Cooper?

  But it is.

• 1:52:13Speaker 01

  And it's like that gut punch.

• 1:52:14Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. And it's like, do you have any advice? And I'll think too of like for someone sitting there that just found out that they were getting cheated on, like, how do you mentally wrap your brain around being in love with someone that you trusted and then the ultimate betrayal and trying to be like, I wanna go have them hug me cuz they're usually the person that consoles me, but you also fucked me and like,

• 1:52:36Speaker 01

  I would be like, look, maybe have that moment right now. Give yourself an hour to have that moment or that night. And then get away from them. Like, like obviously we're still in the same house, but we're most definitely in different rooms. We have like, I know exactly like when he's coming back to the house and I know like I, we do not cross paths. That being said, like as much as you can have that conversation, do what you need to do. Get your ducks in a row and then get away from them and don't, don't allow them to like come back into your life because again, if it's somebody who's willing, who is capable or, Talented enough, it's the of being able to create those lies and stuff.

• 1:53:21Speaker 01

  They'll be, they'll be able to create something to, to pull you back in at some point.

• 1:53:27Alex Cooper?

  And then.

• 1:53:27Speaker 01

  So you have to separate, you have to go no contact.

• 1:53:30Alex Cooper?

  You're so right. And then also, if you go back, they're just gonna be smarter next time.

• 1:53:36Alex Cooper?

  And that is, I think, the worst of like, there's gonna be so many things that are said to you, but I also believe like, there's one thing if someone comes to you and tells you, and is like, I did this, I feel disgusting, I'm sorry. When you find it, when they're apologizing, they're sorry they got caught.

• 1:53:52Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. If they are gonna apologize, because I've had a lot of women that I've spoken to online since all of this have said, my ex was the same way. He was angry. He was yelling at me, he was pissed. And it's like, it's, yeah, it's this, the house of cards has fallen. And they're angry about that. They're not so much like remorseful or upset. It's not about how you feel, it's about the fact that all the effort that went into creating this, to building that little house of cards,

• 1:54:26Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:26Speaker 01

  got blown over so fast, and now what?

• 1:54:28Alex Cooper?

  And I fucking love how much you talk about your friends. Because I, and I also love how you talk about this distortion of reality. Like, the great Esther Perel always talks about, like, when you get cheated on, your reality becomes so distorted and you are like wobbling essentially, you can't see straight. Cause you're like, you were the person I actually loved most and trusted the most in my life, and you just ripped the rug out underneath me.

• 1:54:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:58Alex Cooper?

  You have to immediately surround yourself, and I know you're embarrassed. Part of you also sometimes doesn't want to tell anyone because you're like,

• 1:55:05Speaker 01

  Cause you're like, oh my god, now I'm that person, or you know,

• 1:55:08Alex Cooper?

  And then if you tell people, it's over.

• 1:55:10Speaker 01

  Right, once it's out, well, it's like they always say too, like whenever if you and your partner just get in like petty fights, like don't tell your friends because in your they always say that, right? But it's like in this, if it's this big of a thing.

• 1:55:24Alex Cooper?

  You gotta do it.

• 1:55:24Speaker 01

  You gotta do it and you gotta surround yourself with your friends as quickly as possible. And then that way they can also hold you accountable and be like, absolutely fucking not.

• 1:55:33Alex Cooper?

  Yup.

• 1:55:33Speaker 01

  You are not allowed, like this is not happening. And then also, if you are in a situation where you do have a gaslighter or manipulator and you have a friend over, you have someone sitting right there going, no, I heard what they said. I saw how they were. It's not just you. Because that was my big thing is it was like, there was no one else there. And so I would question.

• 1:55:55Alex Cooper?

  Everything.

• 1:55:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then my friends that were, you know, at the house, like again, like when he came back and was like, why are you guys here? It's like, well, thank fucking god. See, I was like, so you guys saw that, right? Like, of course, like my anxiety is going through my life. I'm like, oh my god, oh my god. Like, but see, that's what it's been like. And they're like, okay, yeah. So now we see the reality because otherwise, you know.

• 1:56:19Alex Cooper?

  And that's again, I just think it's so important to talk through this because when you're in it, it almost becomes impossible to see straight.

• 1:56:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:28Alex Cooper?

  And you have to remember.

• 1:56:29Speaker 01

  Too close to it.

• 1:56:29Alex Cooper?

  You're, you're too fucking close and there's no, like you have to act, like we just keep saying and, and I always say it back to myself when I have friends that go through it, like you loved this person thirty seconds before you just.

• 1:56:42Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 1:56:43Alex Cooper?

  Found it.

• 1:56:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:43Alex Cooper?

  So that isn't gone immediately. The hurt, the anger, all of it, but you still love that person. So you need someone and you have to remember what your friends have no ulterior motives other than making sure you're good. And so just catch yourself if you're going against your friends in that moment. It's because you're trying to hold on to something and let them be the anchor to pull you the other way because they're actually just looking out for you.

• 1:57:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. And talk to them about it.

• 1:57:05Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:06Speaker 01

  If you're sad, you miss them, or you wanna.

• 1:57:08Alex Cooper?

  That's okay.

• 1:57:09Speaker 01

  Talk about like good times and stuff like that. Talk to your friends about it. Like, and then just, but keep that, that no contact. I'm telling you, that wasn't, I think that was the whole like, in my life, blah, blah, blah. Cause I knew that I would go no contact. I knew that that's

• 1:57:28Alex Cooper?

  That's hard, that's fucking hard.

• 1:57:29Speaker 01

  But I knew even even if it was just a breakup, I knew I was gonna go no contact.

• 1:57:32Alex Cooper?

  Wow, how did you know that?

• 1:57:34Speaker 01

  I just felt it in my gut that that was like the way to go. And like in the past, I had not done that with other relationships.

• 1:57:40Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:41Speaker 01

  And then like I've been on TikTok a lot the last like three years. And I would see stuff about that and I was like, okay, I think that that's like in this situation, that's what I would have to do.

• 1:57:50Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:51Speaker 01

  And I think that that was, you know, part of what was like, oh, I don't know, the troubling to him or something.

• 1:57:59Alex Cooper?

  What, that you wouldn't speak to him?

• 1:58:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:03Alex Cooper?

  What did he expect?

• 1:58:05Speaker 01

  Right, that we would do the Schwartz and Katie like dog custody thing, like we're not doing that.

• 1:58:09Alex Cooper?

  No, you're getting the dog.

• 1:58:11Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:58:12Alex Cooper?

  Oh my, what is it Jennifer Cool, she's like, I'm getting the dog. I'm taking the damn dog. Fuck you.

• 1:58:18Speaker 01

  That's good, that's so good.

• 1:58:20Alex Cooper?

  Wait, oh, so you're like, I'm fucking taking the dog.

• 1:58:22Speaker 01

  Well, I paid for her adoption. My name is on her adoption papers.

• 1:58:26Alex Cooper?

  And she loves you more.

• 1:58:27Speaker 01

  I pay her vet vet bills. I take took her for walks. I gave her baths, like

• 1:58:31Alex Cooper?

  See, Ariana.

• 1:58:31Speaker 01

  These are all things that I would do that he wasn't doing.

• 1:58:33Alex Cooper?

  He gets the batteries. You take care of the fucking dog.

• 1:58:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:37Alex Cooper?

  Dude, no, but I get what you're saying and that's another point. When you are so strong to be like, I'm not speaking to you, this is a boundary motherfucker. Oh, it enrages them.

• 1:58:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think the the setting of boundaries has been

• 1:58:53Alex Cooper?

  Oh.

• 1:58:53Speaker 01

  You know, well, and you saw him at Lisa's breaking like, I don't know if it was real or not, honestly, it felt a little bit like a performance to be honest, well, but then also, of course, I'm gonna be jaded because I don't trust.

• 1:59:07Alex Cooper?

  Right, and we have to.

• 1:59:08Speaker 01

  And he had just yelled at me. And then the day after, he yelled at me again after the Rachel scene. So it, you know, it's hard to say, but that being said, the biggest thing that he was upset about in that moment was that he doesn't get to have another conversation with me. Cause I'd said, you don't get another one.

• 1:59:25Alex Cooper?

  It's done.

• 1:59:26Speaker 01

  Like, say what you need to say now because we won't be doing that. And by the way, my friend Meredith and my other friends, like they, she's the

• 1:59:36Speaker 01

  Capricorn queen of my dreams. She made a spreadsheet that was like, who's gonna be staying with me, what night? I did not stay alone for weeks and even after I went, I had friends fly in from New York. To make sure I got to the wedding in Mexico that I went to and then even after I came back from Mexico. I still had friends that would stay with me every night, make sure I ate, make sure I, they were like, they had like their own group texts. Now they've. Friends that didn't know each other before have become friends that I've like always wanted them like you guys love each other like. Now they're bad. It's like honestly, like the, the community that is.

• 2:00:17Speaker 01

  Our friends, like on and off the show is like the most incredible group of. Girls, gays and thays, like I've never, like honestly. I could not, like, I don't know how I could write, like if I was a super talented writer, I couldn't have. Created that in my mind, like absolutely incredible.

• 2:00:38Alex Cooper?

  And that's what I think, again, you kind of talk about like, when you're going through it, let. People actually help you guys because doing it alone is torture. You can't do it alone. You can't. Or you go back to the one person you love the most, which is the person that hurt you.

• 2:00:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, or you, yeah, you think you can, and then you end up, you know, it's, it's just not healthy or you end up. Self medicating or doing my, my classic way of coping is isolation. Or sleeping and it's like.

• 2:01:11Alex Cooper?

  We, he always, he kept bringing that up, like she just sleeps all the time and like, um, yeah, maybe you should look inward that is your partner okay or depressed? Or like what's going on like.

• 2:01:19Speaker 01

  Like maybe her dog just died.

• 2:01:21Alex Cooper?

  Right, like be there for her, get in bed.

• 2:01:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, get in bed, get in bed.

• 2:01:26Alex Cooper?

  Get in bed bitch, like what the fuck?

• 2:01:29Speaker 01

  Well, like that, isn't that where sex happens?

• 2:01:31Alex Cooper?

  Right, you want sex so bad, she's laying in bed all day.

• 2:01:35Speaker 01

  I'm in the bed.

• 2:01:37Alex Cooper?

  She's in bed naked, waiting. Go in, talk to her, emotionally connect with her and then get it in.

• 2:01:43Speaker 01

  And then maybe, yeah.

• 2:01:44Alex Cooper?

  Right. Men are so dumb. Like, what?

• 2:01:48Speaker 01

  Right? Now that we say it, it sounds so simple.

• 2:01:50Alex Cooper?

  She's in bed all day and you're bitching about not getting fucked? What, what, what are we missing here, Tom?

• 2:01:56Speaker 01

  It's not like I'm not in the place where it happens.

• 2:01:59Alex Cooper?

  Dude, okay. Rumor on the street is you're not single? Is this like a situationship? Are we in a full relationship? Are we just fucking? Are we having, like, what are we doing? What are we doing, Ariana? What's going on?

• 2:02:13Speaker 01

  Um, I'm really, really enjoying myself. Um, I am seeing someone. They live across the country in New York, so obviously, you know, it's kind of, there's that whole aspect to it. Um, but I would say it's like really, really great.

• 2:02:33Alex Cooper?

  It's good. And you guys met where?

• 2:02:35Speaker 01

  We met at a wedding.

• 2:02:37Alex Cooper?

  When?

• 2:02:38Speaker 01

  Like literally 10 or 11 days after I found this out, which people are like, what?

• 2:02:46Alex Cooper?

  Like, are you okay?

• 2:02:46Speaker 01

  And I'm like, literally, I just met this person.

• 2:02:49Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 2:02:50Speaker 01

  We did not start dating when I met them.

• 2:02:52Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 2:02:52Speaker 01

  We just started talking.

• 2:02:55Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 2:02:55Speaker 01

  And then we were talking and talking and talking and it progressed and it's.

• 2:03:00Alex Cooper?

  Right. You had a moment to grieve. You're grieving still, but you can also fucking go see people.

• 2:03:05Speaker 01

  And also, it's like really nice, like on, like, okay, so I met him at this wedding and all we did was talk. Like, we stayed up all night just talking. Like, that's it.

• 2:03:16Alex Cooper?

  That's all you've wanted.

• 2:03:17Speaker 01

  Literally all I wanted. I was like, quality time? What is this? And then he flew to where he lives and I flew to where I am. And then we just FaceTimed and talked. And talked and it was just like, oh my gosh, like I'm getting to know this person and the conversations we were having were like so amazing. It's not like we were like, we met and we're dating, you know, but like it was really great. And now I've been able, I've been going to New York for work. And so when I go to New York for work, I've been getting to see him and it's like so nice.

• 2:03:51Alex Cooper?

  That's what I think also people have to understand is like, there's nothing wrong with any timeline post something that traumatic happens. You have to do what feels right. And so people that are like, oh my God, it's so soon, Ariana, like, well, then you do you.

• 2:04:05Speaker 01

  If I was like down on one knee proposing to this man.

• 2:04:08Alex Cooper?

  Then we'd be having intervention right now.

• 2:04:10Speaker 01

  We need to like reel it in, but like, you know, going luckily for New York, being able to go every couple of weeks this last, this just this last month.

• 2:04:20Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:20Speaker 01

  And just work, see my friends, see him and like, just really like love life. And honestly, like having someone that literally will be like, will be on the phone and he'll be like, you know, we're working, we're doing stuff. And he's like, hey, can we just get like five minutes where we're like, we just like have like quality time on the phone. I'm like, are you kidding me?

• 2:04:42Alex Cooper?

  My dream, the past nine years.

• 2:04:45Speaker 01

  Literally. So I'm like, okay, great. This is just great.

• 2:04:50Alex Cooper?

  How, okay, give all the ladies advice of like nine years is a long motherfucking time. How do you not overthink it and allow yourself to be with someone that's not the person you've been with for nine years? It's like a little bit of a mindfuck to be like open to getting back out there.

• 2:05:11Speaker 01

  Open into anything. I think honestly, if you are overthinking it, be honest with yourself that you're overthinking it. And just say like, I'm overthinking this or this is where I'm at. Be honest. I think that honesty and vulnerability, it's two of the sexiest things, I think, in any person. And even if you're just like going out on a bunch of like casual dates with multiple people. Be honest with these people and if that if they're like not down for it, then they're not for you anyways.

• 2:05:40Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:41Speaker 01

  And honestly, just like being honest with yourself too and saying like, this is where I'm at. This is what I'm ready for. This is what I'm not ready for. Because then the day that I met the sky, I literally said, this is what I can handle. I can handle us talking. I can handle you telling me I'm pretty. Um, I can ma- maybe handle a smooch, but beyond that, that's that's it. And he was very enthusiastically like, okay, great. That sounds great. I just wanna hang out.

• 2:06:07Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 2:06:08Speaker 01

  So I was like, okay, cool. Like maybe like just be very clear about your boundaries and what you're okay with.

• 2:06:14Alex Cooper?

  It's like you don't have to go in and be like, so I have to be a fully, it's like, hey.

• 2:06:19Speaker 01

  And honestly, accepting like um happiness and good things while you're healing. There's no like, no, nothing bad about that.

• 2:06:29Alex Cooper?

  There was nothing. People that are judging are also just like, either you haven't been through it or like you went through it and you did something different that didn't work for you and you're trying to judge like. Let everyone do what they want to do.

• 2:06:39Speaker 01

  We're all different people and we all are in different situations. And again, like I said, someone does, we were saying that someone does some shit like this to you. That door is slammed shut. It is way easier to grieve. Um, a relationship or that is that cut and dry than it is is one that isn't.

• 2:07:01Alex Cooper?

  I can't believe this. I just remembered you said his family didn't reach out to you. Has they have they still not reached out, Tom?

• 2:07:09Alex Cooper?

  It's kinda weird, no?

• 2:07:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I understand like what would they say? I guess I would just think they'd be like, hey, this sucks.

• 2:07:19Alex Cooper?

  Like wishing you the best.

• 2:07:20Speaker 01

  Just that.

• 2:07:21Alex Cooper?

  Period.

• 2:07:21Speaker 01

  Just that.

• 2:07:22Alex Cooper?

  Like nine years, there was some respect. Yeah. Not great. Um, okay, this is a fresh start.

• 2:07:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:30Alex Cooper?

  And the beginning of a new era for you. What do you want for yourself?

• 2:07:34Speaker 01

  I want.

• 2:07:37Speaker 01

  Independence on like every level. I want to be able to be completely financially independent. And thank God I don't have like a ton of tied things, but I want to be like financially independent and successful. Um, I want to open my sandwich shop with Katie and have that be a total hit, which I think it will be.

• 2:07:55Alex Cooper?

  What street is it on?

• 2:07:56Speaker 01

  Robertson.

• 2:07:57Alex Cooper?

  Oh, I am there. Do you know how there's like no good sandwiches in LA and you guys were so right? The only ones are like male.

• 2:08:05Speaker 01

  Like the fats, no offense to fat cells.

• 2:08:07Alex Cooper?

  No, but it's like, it's only fat cells or like Uncle Paulies.

• 2:08:11Speaker 01

  Exactly. And that's just so.

• 2:08:13Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 2:08:13Speaker 01

  Not the vibe that we're going for. And if it's not that, then what is it?

• 2:08:18Alex Cooper?

  I get it. I love it. I love it. So you guys are opening?

• 2:08:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:08:22Alex Cooper?

  Fabulous. So you're not, you're not letting it like go to the wayside. Like this is still happening.

• 2:08:26Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, absolutely.

• 2:08:27Alex Cooper?

  Good for you.

• 2:08:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I'm very, I'm very excited about all of that. Yeah. I just want to be.

• 2:08:32Alex Cooper?

  Independent.

• 2:08:33Speaker 01

  Independent and successful. I mean, all the things that I always wanted previously, but now it's like really nice to be able to do. And I want to be a solo homeowner. I want to own my own home with no one else on the deed.

• 2:08:48Alex Cooper?

  God bless you and you deserve it. Okay. Last two questions.

• 2:08:53Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:08:54Alex Cooper?

  What do you want everyone to know about you outside of this scandal?

• 2:09:00Speaker 01

  Um.

• 2:09:03Alex Cooper?

  You're like, I had too much rosé. Leave me alone.

• 2:09:05Speaker 01

  Like, um, I love long walks on the beach.

• 2:09:09Alex Cooper?

  I like rosé and I want to move to the French countryside bitch.

• 2:09:12Speaker 01

  Beyonce. I'm like, um, I'm like, okay, look, I just want people to know that like, I understand that reality TV is very um, over the top at times. And yes, of course, we love the drama. I love the drama. I mean, I'm a Love Island stan as we know. Um, but I just want people to know that like, again, like what you were saying, like on the other side of it, we are real people. Um, I'm, you know, kind of like a perpetually barefoot girl from Florida, like, you know, and I, I love my girls and I love my friends. And I just think that. Something I hope that all of this stuff brings is that we all just kind of like join together

• 2:09:57Speaker 01

  because I just think that I love women and I think we are the fucking best. And I just think that when we team up, like, we are unstoppable.

• 2:10:08Alex Cooper?

  Unstoppable. I am so happy you came today because I truly think like you are, you're so classy and you have such a head on your shoulders, even though in the midst of quite literally one of the biggest, most painful moments of your life. I'm so sorry this happened to you, but I do weirdly think, thank God, Ariana, thank God. Because you would have potentially been with him and not known. And it's like, you deserve so much fucking better. And you know what? Let him go do his thing. Let her go do her thing, whatever she's going through. Like, everyone is meant to not be in whatever it just was. And you're amazing. And I can't wait to watch the reunion.

• 2:10:51Alex Cooper?

  Although it's like, do you have any fear of like people watching it? Like, is there anything you want to preface before we turn on our TVs?

• 2:10:58Speaker 01

  I just hope I wasn't like too cut through.

• 2:11:01Alex Cooper?

  No, bitch, you could be. No, we want it. We want the drama.

• 2:11:04Speaker 01

  I think I go in. I don't know. I blacked out.

• 2:11:07Alex Cooper?

  I think everyone was like, Lala is gonna destroy. And we hope Ariana is right underneath being like a little bit, you know, getting in there.

• 2:11:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:15Alex Cooper?

  I'm excited. Cheers.

• 2:11:16Speaker 01

  Well, cheers. Thanks for having me.

• 2:11:34Alex Cooper?

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