UFO Disclosure, Varginha, and the Captured Creature: James Fox

James Fox is one of the most respected documentary filmmakers working in UFO research today. He got his start assisting his father conducting interviews for Rolling Stone and Sports Illustrated, a foundation that shaped his instinct for rigorous, credible storytelling. Over three decades, Fox produced seven documentaries including the widely acclaimed The Phenomenon and Moment of Contact, and in 2017 organized what remains the most credible civilian UFO disclosure event in history, bringing fourteen military and government officials from seven countries to the National Press Club in Washington. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFxnFHhqtts&t=1s Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:29AJ Gentile?

  Today, I'm talking with James Fox. He's spent three decades investigating UFO cases, and he's produced seven documentaries, including The Phenomenon, which hit number three in all genres when it dropped. And back in 2007, he organized what's still considered the most credible civilian UFO disclosure event in history: 14 military and government officials from seven countries, all at the National Press Club in Washington. But here's what makes James different: He doesn't chase headlines. He knocks on doors. He tracks down military records. He prefriends witnesses for years before they'll even sit down with him. His latest investigation, the Verginia Incident in Brazil, took him there four times in the last year. And what he found is significant.

• 1:13AJ Gentile?

  He found a neurosurgeon who claims he had face-to-face contact with a captured non-human being. We learn about a military officer who died weeks after handling one of the creatures. And for the first time, all the locations that James talks about line up on Google Maps. We're going to get into all of it. Let's go downstairs.

• 1:38AJ Gentile?

  Today, we're talking to James Fox. This is exciting. One of the most prolific documentary filmmakers working in the UFO space—I don't call it UAPs—he got a start early, assisting his father, writer and photographer Charles Fox, conducting interviews for Rolling Stone, Sports Illustrated, and Car and Driver, Nat Foundation, and rigorous journalism shows in his work. James has spent three decades. Three decades investigating UFO cases, producing seven documentaries, including Out of the Blue, I Know What I Saw, The Phenomenon, which is my favorite, The Program, and in 2070, organized what's still considered the most credible civilian UFO disclosure event in history, bringing 14 military and government officials from seven countries to the National Press Club in Washington.

• 2:20AJ Gentile?

  His latest film, Moment of Contact: New Revelations, which is a follow-up of Moment of Contact I, expands on his nearly 30-year investigation into the Varginha Incident in Brazil, a case involving non-human beings, military capture, and one mysterious death. So remember, we're not here to convince or persuade anybody, we just want to hear the story. James, this is not a professional operation, but I am very excited to talk to you. Thanks for coming in.

• 2:45Speaker 02

  Oh, that was a great intro. I gotta meet this guy.

• 2:48AJ Gentile?

  You gotta meet him. His name is, I think his name is ChatGPT.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh. Okay.

• 2:54AJ Gentile?

  So how do you, first, how do you go from working with your dad and interviewing Stephen Hawking to becoming like the preeminent UFO documentarian?

• 3:04Speaker 02

  So funny. I've talked about this in the past because my father used to always say to me, he was a quadriplegic with MS, and so I, very early on, I was kind of his legs, his secretary, his physical therapist, you know, his chauffeur. And he had to, you know, continue working because that's what he did, and he had to travel because that's what he did. So I was his leg. So I got very early on, I was driving, like 11 years old, but I got to go and meet some of the subjects. And he had a wide range of stuff that you do. Oftentimes, he would want to like meet somebody, so he'd make up a story idea, propose it to various, you know, news organizations and get approval, and we could travel on, you know, expense, you know, expense-paid travel, whatever.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  And, but he would always say to me,

• 3:52Speaker 02

  Son, you know, whatever you want to do in life, I support it fully. I don't care if you want to be a janitor or a lawyer. You know, that's, that's what matters that you're happy. And then when he found out that I was gonna, looking into UFOs, I was in my mid twenties. He was, he was so, he was so concerned about my future. And he was like, there's nothing to it. There's, it's a dead end street. Don't waste your life. He was pleading with me not to do it. Like, not only that, but he had members, because I was born in England, a lot of my family lives in England, and then they married Frenchmen and Italian people, whatever, they're scattered across Europe. And he had them writing, writing me letters. Your father's very concerned. Maybe you should reconsider the path that you're taking in life. Like, you know.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  Really dad? Like, just because I said, I'm kind of curious in this, that I'm looking into it and, you know, and I thought, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna show him. And so I was like, I'm making a documentary on, you know, UFOs. People are like, you out of your damn mind on what? You know, and, and I did it. It took me four years. It was a hundred million times harder than I ever anticipated. I was like, Jesus, editing is insane. Like, you know, B-roll, I need B-roll, B-roll, like. Is this the one you sold to Discovery when you were 28? Yeah, it was called UFOs, uh, 50 Years of Denial. Sorry, it's been so long since I did that one. I guess it's been a hundred years of denial. Yeah, I know, I know. Now it's up to like 500 years of denial. Yeah, I did that. And I got to the end of it and I was like, that was really hard.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  Like, really hard. Yeah. My God, and I had no money. And I was, you know, I had met this guy that I'd done some PSA work, public service announcements with another company that I had apprenticed with to learn kind of video production and stuff like that. And he's like, oh, you're doing this documentary? He goes, um, you know, go out and, and, you know, do, do this, this, this, and this. And he gave me this whole list, laundry list of stuff I had to do. And he goes, 99.9% of the time when I told people to go do that, I'd never see you at the end. And I was happy about that. But he goes, son of a bitch, you came back here later and you did everything I told you to do. He goes, so I felt obligated to help you. So he was sneaking me and Boris Zubov, he was sneaking me into this production facility

• 6:04Speaker 02

  that was like a hundred dollars, hundreds of dollars an hour, right? It was, I mean, back then. And we'd come in on Friday, like, yeah, we're just gonna do a couple of hours. And then we'd stay up all Friday night, all Saturday, all Sunday, just coffee and just like, you know, because, because, you know, and then we had to leave before, you know, it opened back up on Monday morning. And Boris, bless your heart Boris, like, he really helped me make that, that film happen. And I was doing, I had a non-littered, a non-littered editing system called a toaster flyer. Oh, sure, on the Amiga. Exactly. And I remember when I was setting that up, the guy goes at the store, he goes, Winter Circle in Berkeley, it's probably not even around anymore.

• 6:50Speaker 02

  He's like, well, I tell you what, James, I've got, I've got these two four gig drives, or you can pull out all the stops and get the nine gig drives. Oh, nine gigs. How much is nine gigs? We'll never fill it. He goes, $2,400 for, for one nine gig drive. And I got two and he let me pay in installments. So I was editing the movie in like 15 minute segments and then I'd bring them into, to this post-production house and we, we spliced the film together with Digi Beta and all that, you know, anyway. So that was my first film and then I finished that. Well, hang on, did your dad get to see that? Oh, sorry, yes, going back to that, very good point. He did. And he was, he was like, pretty damn impressed, but I'll tell you what got him, I'll tell

• 7:35Speaker 02

  you what got him. He was very impressed, my whole family was. I mean, I sold it to Discovery. My first documentary took me about four years and I sold Discovery and I, I tell you, man, I felt like I climbed to my Everest. I mean, it was, it was really taxing and really difficult, way more work than I ever anticipated making a documentary, you know, I was like, poke the camera and, uh-uh. But you sold it? Sold it. I know, it was incredible, right?

• 7:59Speaker 02

  I had put out requests for interviews during the time of production with that doc that they never got back to me and post doc and the release, I got accepted, I got invited to go to Russia and I got invited to meet with Mercury astronaut Gordon Cooper. Well, Gordon Cooper was an iconic figure of my dad's generation. He was an amazing man. Oh yeah, last American astronaut to orbit the planet alone in the tin can and, and I thought, well, you know, normally I would travel with my father on assignment. And this time I said, Dad, how would you like to come with me and meet Gordon Cooper? So he came with, we got his wheelchair van, loaded it up, me and a couple of people,

• 8:42Speaker 02

  got my camera gear, I did all my own audio and camera then. And, and we did this interview and my dad was looking in the eyes of Gordon Cooper and he was like, son of a bitch, what is, why would this guy lie? Had a landing at Edwards Air Force Base that was filmed, he talked about processing the film footage, he'd seen the film footage. Of course, as with all film footage, two men in suits showed up in a courier jet from Washington DC, it was never to be seen or heard from ever again. And then on top of that, he had the sighting of these discs in the 50s over Germany in these planes. And my dad just walked away from that going, this guy's not selling his story, he's not selling a book, he's iconic figure of my generation, he's a hero, he's not crazy.

• 9:26Speaker 02

  Why on earth? What would motivate him to lie? And that was a turning point for my father. He, that really got him going, shit, maybe my son's right, maybe there is something going on here. When he died, he was one of my biggest fans. That's amazing. Uh, that's, what justification for that? Yeah, I know, unfortunately he wasn't around to, to see the phenomenon, because I worked on that for eight years. I started the phenomenon right, right when he died. And then it took me eight years, maybe it took me longer than eight years because I started it, concept at 43, filming at 44, finished and promoting at 52.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  Woo. Yeah. That's a long time. And it's really funny. I had some editors come in with me because I edited for three or four years of that movie. It was a lot of work, cases all around the world, whatever. And, uh, and this one editor, Ben Gallin, he goes, he goes, oh dude, who's that? Who's that? Who's that guy? Who's that guy over there on your, you know, it's film footage? I was like, no, that's me. He goes, really? I was like, yeah, that's when I first started, like nine years ago, whatever, you know? All brown hair. Sure. You know, you, you know, no wrinkle, you know, whatever, but you know what I mean? It's really funny. I was like, yeah, that took the wind out of my sails on that one. You know, but, um, yeah, so, uh, so that's, that's kind of how I got started.

• 10:46Speaker 02

  And I never anticipated like that I was going to be the UFO guy making UFO docs. Right? Well, what was the click that made you suddenly get interested in that? Well, so I had a friend of mine, this guy Renee Harris from high school. And when we graduated from high school, I was like, hey, let's fly to Europe and let's drive across. Let's get a car in London and then drive to Portugal. So we bought this, like, we flew to London together. He had way more money than I did at the time. Best friends to have. Yeah, yeah, he, yeah. And he, he, uh, we bought a Fiat one, three, one. And we drove, we painted the doors red. We thought, let's spice this car up. It was white. So we like painted it red on the hood and the whatever. And then we drove it to Portugal. And, uh, ended up having to ditch it in Portugal and came back. But we went across Europe together, really, really good friends. And then he was like, you know, I'm just hungry all the time in Europe.

• 11:31Speaker 02

  He's this big guy and he's like, you know, the, the food portions are so small in Europe. I need, I need more food. I guess. He's like, and everything's so expensive and he wanted to go home. So he went home a little early. I stayed on for, oh man, I ended up becoming a no pair. I went to London, sold clothing, door to door, sleeve clothing store, the clothing store that comes to you. You know, had the doors slammed in my face and then I worked as an au pair in the French Alps. Um, not speaking any French. And, uh, and then I, when I came back to the States, quite a bit later. You know, we re kind of fell out and then we reunited in our early twenties and he was into UFOs. And I was like, what a shame.

• 12:12AJ Gentile?

  This guy's nuts.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  This guy's lost his mind. He's one of my best friends and I'm gonna have to cut him loose. And I, he was talking about Roswell and this UFO. I just, I mean, I was like, oh my God, this is tragic. So then I, um, I brought it up with one of my, uh, people that I was working with at this, um, I was, I was apprenticing at this production facility in San Francisco and this, this guy, Richard Van Sickle. And I looked up to him. He was, he was very, he was 10 years my senior and he very experienced in production. He was a great guy, very smart. I said, God, you're not gonna believe, uh, no, no, no, my friend at Roswell. And he goes, oh, James, yeah, you didn't hear about Roswell? I'm like, well, yeah, I heard about it, but I mean, what do you know? I heard about it.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  And then he started getting like, oh yeah, the military actually announced the recovery of a flying saucer and UFOs. And he was very well versed in everything and I had a lot of respect for him.

• 13:04Speaker 03

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• 13:33Speaker 02

  So I thought, well, I'll look into it. And the more I dug, the more I realized, oh my God, there's something going on.

• 13:39AJ Gentile?

  And there was the inspiration for the first doc came from that?

• 13:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:43AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 13:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, not that, not that exact meeting, but I decided, okay, I'm gonna look into it, just like Varginha. I reluctantly looked into that case.

• 13:53AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 13:53Speaker 02

  I mean, I, I heard about that case in the nineties. I heard about Rua through Steven Spielberg. When I was making my first documentary on UFOs in the nineties. We had a mutual friend, Jenny Yang. Sorry, um, had a head cold a couple of days ago, but, um,

• 14:09Speaker 02

  Jenny Yang was friends with Spielberg and I was making a UFO doc and I thought, well, of course he's going to grant me an interview because I'm making a UFO doc and I'm James Fox, you know, it was like, and he got back to us and he's like, yeah, not going to meet with James, but he's doing a doc on UFOs. He should know about this landing case that happened in Africa and that was in Ruwa, Zimbabwe, aerial school in 94. I think he told me about it in 97, 96. And I was, I was like, yeah, I'm not going to waste any time on a, yeah, sure, a UFO landed in a school, occupants got out and interacted with the schoolchildren telepathically. I'm not wasting a second on that case and I didn't. And the same thing with Virginia.

• 14:46AJ Gentile?

  Mm hmm.

• 14:47Speaker 02

  I heard about Virginia in the late 90s when I was making my second UFO documentary and my British friend and co-producer at the time, Tim Coleman, very smart guy. He's like, oh yeah, mate, we gotta, we gotta look into this, this, you know, because we map out the film, generally speaking, it's like, hey, let's fuck, you know, bent waters 1980, you know, Tehran, Iran in 1975. How about, we'll look into the Phoenix Lights case and how about, you know, I mean, we kind of mapped the film out that way and then we stitch it together with narrative, whatever.

• 15:16AJ Gentile?

  The Australia case, I think you covered.

• 15:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was in the phenomenon, but in any case, the time I was, I was mapping it out and he was like, yeah, let's put this one on the chalkboard, you know, and this, you know, you hear about this UFO crash in Brazil and, and the live aliens walking through the town. And I looked at him and I was like, I picked the wrong partner.

• 15:32AJ Gentile?

  It sounded nuts to me.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  I was with, I was with my, my buddy Boris and he looked at me kind of sideways and I was looking at him sideways. And then I looked at Tim and I said to myself quietly, I think I picked the wrong partner. This guy's nuts. Like, you know, not only did I not look into the case for over 10 years. So I finished out of the blue. Then I did director's cut for out of the blue, okay, years later. Then I did a two hour special called, I Know What I Saw for, I ended up selling that to A and E, broadcast on the History Channel. And then I got invited to, and that was before, and I never looked into the Virginia. I refused to. And then I flew to, I got invited to Brazil, a place called Paraguay and I, I met with AJ, this guy AJ Javard, who's a Brazilian UFO researcher,

• 16:17Speaker 02

  magazine editor. And before I left, this guy named Jeff Sigansky, I think he was head, used to be head of like Sony Pictures. And he was always very instrumental behind the scenes, helping me get distribution for my UFO films. And I was always really grateful because he never wanted a penny or anything, but, but he found out I was going to Brazil and this was like. 2010, maybe? I'd have to look at it exactly. 2010, 2011, something like that. And he's like, "Oh, James, you're going to Brazil. You gotta look into that, you know, that..." And I cringed. I physically, I cringed. But Jeff, I had so much respect for him. I was like, "You know what? I'm not gonna sit there and tell Jeff he's nuts, because he's been too influential. He's too much of a nice guy." But I said, "Yeah, yeah, sure, Jeff. Yeah, yeah, sure. No, I'll

• 17:01Speaker 02

  definitely look into that. Yep, I'll report back, for sure. Yeah, bye." Click. And I was like, "I'm not wasting a second on this case." So just to give your audience, like, I understand. I see people online, "There's no evidence, and there's the photographs," and I get it, because I have that. And I'm not out here trying to prophesize and get people to join my cult of believers. I really mean that when I say it. All I say is, listen to the firsthand eyewitness testimony, because it's very compelling.

• 17:30AJ Gentile?

  Well, before we get into Virginia, which we'll definitely cover in detail,

• 17:34Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 17:35AJ Gentile?

  how have you managed to stay sane?

• 17:40Speaker 02

  No.

• 17:41AJ Gentile?

  I don't want to use the word credible, because it's not really the right word, but how have you managed to just... You have so much integrity and respect from, not just the UFO community, but from everybody. How have you stayed that guy, the most, probably the most trustworthy voice?

• 17:59Speaker 02

  You know, I've made mistakes, you know, and I try, I really try hard to, if I don't believe something, I won't put it in a film, right? And if I have any question, I'll say, you know, and generally speaking, I do as much background research as I possibly can. I reach out to as many people within the, that I trust, within the intelligence community, people that can do like full background checks. I call people up. I want to see their military records. I want to see, like, for instance, there was a controversial character named Jason Sands. And Jason had an account of an alleged close encounter of the third kind that happened at Nellis Test Range back in the 90s. Very compelling. Like, wow, it's really compelling. And especially when you hear, you know, we know about close encounters

• 18:42Speaker 02

  of the third kind. You know, we know about, I've heard a number of reports of people that worked out at the base that claim for, you know, that there are entities out there. What am I, it's a toll, I don't know. But, um... I checked his military records. I checked him with all the intel folks that I possibly could. I did background on the, on the UFO footage that leaked from that period. Um, I even contacted his ex-wife and I got, I had to pay her because she was like, I'm not, I have to go up in the attic and dig through all these box dusty boxes and I'm not doing that. She didn't like him, obviously.

• 19:19AJ Gentile?

  Divorces are like that.

• 19:21Speaker 02

  I'll give you $200 per picture. I had those pictures like three days later, bam, you know, of him exactly where he said he was in the, at the bay, all the fixtures, all of his military records. I talked to people in the Senate that sat in a skiff with him. They're like, I know he's got PTSD and he might say some off the wall stuff, but that guy was there. He has named classified, you know, legacy program names that we got in trouble just for asking about. They're like, I know he's got some issues, but that he's legit. He's, he was where he says he was and we think that encounter happened. So I decided to report on it and I got lambasted by people out there like you connect yourself with Jason Sands. It's like, that was a tough call. That was a tough call. I was the one that

• 20:05Speaker 02

  accidentally outed him. Um, so I make mistakes and did I make a mistake with that one? Would I do things differently? Maybe. But this is tough because we're now in an arena where we're having these incredible allegations of crash retrieval, legacy UAP crash retrieval programs. These are, you know, really serious allegations. Where's the proof, right? So there's, there's no smoke without fire. We sense where there's people testifying under oath as to the existence of a crash retrieval legacy program. I've interviewed aerospace engineers and physicists that are directly involved or claim to be directly involved that would love to give us more information, but they need, you know, so I do the best

• 20:48Speaker 02

  I can. Sometimes I make mistakes and I'm trying to be kind to everybody and I try to stay in my own lane.

• 20:52AJ Gentile?

  Where are you with the whistleblowers and the, the current narrative, the folks coming out, the Grush, Elizondo, the guys that come from military intelligence that, that have clearance, they clear their talking points through DOD. Where are you with this? Is that, is it real? Is it disinformation?

• 21:09Speaker 02

  Well, so here's what I, here's what I say to the people out there that, that criticize these whistleblowers. Fair enough. Cause they say, I'm sick and tired of hearing these allegations and where's the proof? Instead of criticizing them. Why don't we recognize the fact that they're saying that they want to tell us the classified details needed, but they are concerned about their personal safety, they're concerned about the consequences, they're concerned about their clearances. Those are legitimate concerns. So instead of criticizing them, why don't we figure out how to create a platform that will enable them to testify under oath to a bipartisan group of lawmakers publicly, right? So that's like, one of the questions that I'd ask aerospace engineer Dr. Eric Davis,

• 21:54Speaker 02

  he's making some incredible allegations, right? He is. And he's like, "Look," I said, "Yeah, but this is really frustrating because you're telling me there's crash retrieval, and there's pictures of aliens and all this other stuff, but where's the..." And he's like, "Look, you get President Trump tomorrow to wave the magic wand and give me immunity, I'll give you all the details you needed." So instead of focusing our attention on attacking these people, why don't we just call their bluff and say, "I'll tell you what, let's push members of Congress," is what I've been doing recently. I just met with members of Congress in the task force in Washington, DC, like 10 days ago. Yep. Right? And I'm trying to get them to look into the Varghini case, I'm trying to find out, like, how can we get hearings on more witnesses? How, what sort of environment

• 22:36Speaker 02

  can we get to create a platform for all these people that claim to have all this knowledge that want to come forward? They're terrified of the consequences. Why don't we create that platform? Why don't we focus on that? Because whether you believe Grush or not, if it's true, what he's saying, it's the biggest story in the history of mankind. Of course. Let's call his bluff. Let's focus on getting the president, the executive branch, you know, to say, "Hey, wave the magic wand, give these guys immunity, they're dying to testify. Let's do it. What are we waiting for?" Even Eric Davis said he would, he'd say everything. He said he would. He said it to me on camera because I was really frustrated too. And I'm sitting there going, you know, and people just sit on the sidelines and criticize.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  I'm like, "Why don't we call their bluff? Why don't we focus more on resolving this issue?" It's supposed to like, "That guy's lying, he's deep, you know, psyop and this, this, that person." It's like, I don't, you know, I don't want to hear it. All I know is that people are testifying under oath, under oath, saying that there's a crash retrieval program, biologics, all that stuff. What about the, um, what was his name?

• 23:44Speaker 02

  The ICIG Intelligence Community Inspector General that apparently David Grush said he'd given all the classified details needed to verify his claims in a SCIF. Thomas Monheim, Thomas, is it Thomas Monheim? I think it was. But why don't we put him, let's subpoena him and get him to give us those details. Why don't we focus on that? There's no talk of that. Do you see what I'm saying?

• 24:10AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 24:10Speaker 02

  So it's like, we need to all get together. We need to stop bickering with one another, criticizing online and focus on a common goal, like to make this happen. And that's what I was trying to do in DC. That's what I was trying to do with the press conference. What is it going to take? You know, Kirk McConnell was talking about it. He said it on the SCIF with firsthand witnesses. That was pretty extraordinary. He talked about the environment. There are some people like Christopher Mellon, for instance, is saying that Congress actually has the authority to do this.

• 24:38AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 24:38Speaker 02

  Not even, of course, the executive branch for sure. The President of the United States can just wave his magic wand. What has he got to lose?

• 24:46AJ Gentile?

  Nothing.

• 24:46Speaker 02

  There'd be statues of him all around the world. There would be.

• 24:50AJ Gentile?

  Not everywhere, but I agree.

• 24:51Speaker 02

  But if he, you know.

• 24:52AJ Gentile?

  But where's the resistance coming from? Who's in charge?

• 24:56Speaker 02

  Well, so I talked to people in the task force just like 10 days ago. We had a closed door meeting, which actually Leslie Keen and Ralph Blumenthal just wrote about it. Today, that story came out.

• 25:05AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 25:05Speaker 02

  In the debrief, I would highly recommend you viewers go check it out.

• 25:08AJ Gentile?

  Hundred percent.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  Because it's got pictures and a very detailed account of what happened. But they said that the pushback they're getting from the DOD is significant. The intelligence agencies, significant, like what's happening and some of the threats. You know, I mean, Grush, I mean, I've heard, I can't reveal what I've heard, but what I've heard was, if it's true, that's pretty scary what, you know, like basically coming in your house while you're gone and leaving notes and other things.

• 25:38AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 25:39Speaker 02

  You know, just like, you know, we can touch you anywhere kind of stuff.

• 25:42AJ Gentile?

  Well, I mean, wherever you stand on someone like Lazar, believe it or not, the government made his life difficult for a good, long time.

• 25:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 25:50AJ Gentile?

  So what?

• 25:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, George, I trust George Knapp's reporting on that.

• 25:53AJ Gentile?

  I do as well. I trust, I trust him more than anyone.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  I really do. I have tremendous respect for him.

• 25:57AJ Gentile?

  So what, why don't they want us to know? There's some advantage that they have.

• 26:03Speaker 02

  Okay, so let's just, let's live in an alternate reality for a moment.

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Okay, and let's just imagine that this is all true. Okay, let's imagine that UFOs have crashed. Let's imagine that we have biologics, we have, we've captured some alive. Let's imagine that we have this technology in a lab somewhere. Let's just say that the observed technology, you know, with UFOs, and it's well documented for over 80 years, and someday it goes way back, but whatever. We'll just talk about the modern UFO wave. These things exhibit a technology that's light years advanced from anything we have in our possession, even today. Listen to David Fravor, listen to the various pilots over the years. Talk about flying rings around their fastest jets, and they got no wings and no tail, and no, no visible means of propulsion. They can hover, accelerate from a standstill to out of sight, blink of an eye, right angle turns at high speed.

• 26:54Speaker 02

  I mean, they go, Kirk McConnell talked about the radar tapes, that we have radar of these objects with no wings, these tic-tac shaped objects. They're in space. They drop down to sea level faster than a second. Yep. You know what I mean? 22,000 Gs. 80,000 feet in less than a second, okay? So, whatever these things are, and who's ever piloting these things, if you could weaponize that technology, you're gonna, you're gonna control, and of course, that's how the military thinks. So let's, again, in this alternate reality, let's just imagine that that's all true, right? Now, do you think that those in control of this technology,

• 27:36Speaker 02

  whether they've figured it out or not, there's a lot of controversy on both sides. Some people say we have, some people say we haven't, some people say we understand the technology, we wouldn't quite know how to replicate it because of the power it would take to generate, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But what incentive would the Defense Department or the various agencies that are in control of the special access, you know, super ultra-secret programs, how would they benefit by sharing that technology with the rest of the world? They would not. Okay, so, well, how about like imagining if...

• 28:12Speaker 02

  That technology got out to the Russians or the Chinese, right? So, and they weaponized it. They put a nuke on it, like, you know, I could just, I could see that being an issue of national security.

• 28:23AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 28:23Speaker 02

  So we've been slightly pivoted a little bit, but the, by the so-called biologics, they call them biologics, the, the non-human, you know, intelligent beings, that should not be an issue of national security. So we're kind of pivoting to that. We've talked about that at the event, but um, they would have to admit that

• 28:44Speaker 02

  Earth is under some sort of observation.

• 28:49Speaker 02

  We have definitive proof that we're not alone. We have biologics. We've been lying to you guys for 80 plus years. Roswell was real. Magenta was real. 30 is in Italy. Um, we don't know who they are, where they come from, or what their agenda is. I, I, I don't see an incentive to disclose that either.

• 29:09AJ Gentile?

  Okay. That's a fair answer.

• 29:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I don't, I don't agree with that. And a lot of people don't agree with that. People have a fundamental right, right? And what we're talking about that's happening in the United States, it's a global issue. This is going to impact the whole world. You know what I mean? I remember when I met with, this is probably one of the first times that I actually thought about the implications, and I'm all for disclosure. I don't care. It's, the truth is the truth, and people should know. And if the technology has to stay a national security issue for all the reasons we just discussed, then fair enough, but at least confess that you have it.

• 29:44AJ Gentile?

  So say we have it. Look, we're not sharing it. We can't let our enemies have it, but we do have it.

• 29:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that there should be an admission of that. I really do. I met with Bigelow, or Robert Bigelow, it was right after I did I Know What I Saw, and I got a, an email from his, I still have the email. I got an email from his secretary, and she's like, oh, Mr. Bigelow wants to congratulate you on a job well done. My film, I Know What I Saw. And I was like,

• 30:12Speaker 02

  Oh my God, Robert Bigelow, this guy could fund my next, you know. Right. And so we ended up having lunch in Las Vegas and at his house. And he's like, you know, you know, kid, because I was probably in my late 30s or maybe very, or maybe I was 40. Yeah, probably maybe 40. He's like, you know, kid, he goes, we looked into it. I probably poured more money into the phenomenon. I had intellectual heavyweights in the scientific community and NIDS and this. Little that I know, he was working on OSAP and ATEP at the time. He was. Contract from, from Harry Reid. He was. But he didn't, he didn't tell me about that. But he was like, you know, and do you understand like the impact that disclosure would have and la, la, la, la, la. And I was thinking to myself, like, you know, no, what, what, I mean, kumbaya, group hug.

• 30:57Speaker 02

  Wow, we're not alone is going to just unify, you know, global, you know, that's, that's where I always looked at it. I thought it'd be really cool. We'd see ourselves for who we really are as one race, one species, one planet. How cool would that be? Right. And he's looked at me and he's like, man, we did a study on this and this, the impacts would be significant. He's like, you take every, and he said, he said that, and I don't know. I'm, I'm starting to think that maybe, maybe he's right. Or, or maybe it's just the thing that the world needs right now.

• 31:25Speaker 00

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• 31:55Speaker 02

  You know, because, uh, yeah, I think it would have a unifying. It might be initially quite shocking, ontological shock, or maybe religions might have some issues with it. They might. But uh.

• 32:10AJ Gentile?

  But I think the Vatican is is a little more open to this idea now.

• 32:13Speaker 02

  It's really funny you should say that because uh we reached out to someone who's to speak at our event. I probably won't mention her name, but uh she's like, God, it's really funny that you, you know, uh, that you reached out and made a request for me to present it at your uh, at your event in DC. She goes, because high level people at the Vatican are just telling me about this new witness that you found uh on the Virginia case. They think it's really significant. And they said, you gotta watch this, you know, you gotta watch this video because if true, it's the most significant development in the history of the phenomenon. And and I have to say, I think it is. So anyway.

• 32:55AJ Gentile?

  I agree. Um, where do you stand? My favorite landing video is the Holloman Air Force Base video.

• 33:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, the the video that we don't have.

• 33:04AJ Gentile?

  That we don't have, which we do. We do have it, but we don't. Um, what do you think about that? What happened there?

• 33:11Speaker 02

  Oh, just like every other case that I've ever investigated, including Socorro and Ruwa and Virginia. I don't know. I always always think like, that's impossible. I remember the first time I was the first real serious time that I'd heard about the Holloman landing case. I laughed it off pretty quickly. And um, and then I started investigating Socorro. And that Socorro is very close, stone's throw. I started reading articles from a woman named Kral Lorenzen of the UFO Bulletin. And uh, she had described some media and she apparently a pretty reputable source or editor at her time. She had described some interviews that she'd done with people at Holloman Air Force Base that had described this incident, one

• 33:54Speaker 02

  from the air, one from the ground, some other people, very good articles. And I thought, hmm, that's interesting.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  Continued my investigation into Zaccoro and I ended up stumbling upon that documentary UFOs Past, Present and Future with Ammonager and Sandler. And I'll make this story quick, but I met with both of them and Ammonager was like absolutely convinced that it had happened. And they were producing their documentary in the early 70s and they were working with a guy at the Pentagon named Colonel William T. Coleman, who I interviewed. And he was basically giving them carte blanche to do this UFO doc in the early 70s and giving them unprecedented access

• 34:44Speaker 02

  to all these bases and NORAD and like it was incredible what happened back in the 70s. And apparently, and this is one of the reasons why I believe this happened. And I was sticking my teeth into it, kind of as a side project. I didn't even report on it because I was just like, whoa, let me check this out, you know, as I was doing other stuff, making the phenomenon. And I got to know Alan Sandler. I went to his house. I was going after some footage that he actually still has of an incident that happened at Vandenberg in the 1960s of an Atlas rocket and UFO going around. And he had that, and he actually made a deal with me to buy it. I was gonna give him like 25 grand and then he was gonna show it to me. I had to put the money

• 35:29Speaker 02

  in an escrow account and he was gonna show it to me. And if I didn't, if I liked it and it was everything he said it was gonna be, he kept the money, I took the thing, off I go. And the last, I got the money. And the last minute, he pulled the carpet out and he's like, you know, I talked to my lawyers and it's really risky and this had the other thing and I'm really well off and I don't need the risk. I was like, dude, really? So I've been, you know, anyway, during this time, and I was also interviewing Coleman and Ammonager, which I'm gonna release all those interviews pretty soon for free on the internet. And Alan's like, oh, I saw that footage. And I was driving my car when he told me this. I was like, excuse me, what? You saw the footage from Vandenberg? No, no, I saw the landing at Holloman. I said, okay,

• 36:12Speaker 02

  hold on a second. Pulled the car over, stopped, engine off. Okay. You're telling me Alan Sandler that you saw the landing at Holloman? He goes, yeah, I sure did. It was shown to me by a guy named Paul Shartle at Norton Air Force Base.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  Okay, so why is it that Emanager doesn't know that?

• 36:35Speaker 02

  That's weird. So I closed my eyes and I got him to give me the description. Now, he was like, this was clearly not fake. It was a real film footage of a real flying saucer that really flew and really landed. And he goes, James, just like in a sci fi movie, the door opened. It didn't have any seams or anything. It just opened up and plump. And he was like, I think it was, you know, our technology back in the seventies. We have a flying saucer and we set it up as like a training video as to what we do if we made contact. I don't agree with him. And the other was Emanager, neither did Paul Shartle. But I don't know if he knew and he was just trying to like, who knows? But that's what he said. So I said, so you're telling me it's not a special effect?

• 37:19Speaker 02

  He goes, no, man, this is real footage. It was shown to me by Paul Shartle. Emanager happened to not be at the base that day. And the very next morning, two men in suits showed up. You never saw this like da, da, da, and it took the footage and it was gone. And so for whatever reason, you know, Alan didn't tell Emanager. And I got, I actually got on the phone. I got the interview somewhere and I was like, all right, Emanager? I'm here with Alan, or maybe I was with Emanager and had Alan on the phone. I was with Emanager. And I was like, do you know that Alan saw the footage? Why didn't you tell me? You know? So Alan saw that footage and described to me in vivid detail. And if you want me to tell you what, what he described. Of course. I'm happy to tell you. I've seen the landing, but I haven't seen the doors open.

• 38:01Speaker 02

  So, okay, I, okay, I have not seen the landing, so I haven't seen any of it. But in any case, is what he told me. It's gorgeous. Oh, man. He said, he said that there were three discs coming over escorted by military jets coming over Holloman Air Force Base. I, I can't remember. It was daytime, but I can't remember if it was afternoon or morning. I'm sorry. I just can't remember. But it was, it was day. It was daytime. No question about that. So there were three discs coming in at rather high altitude. And that two, when it got to a certain proximity of the base, two of them peeled away and one came down. And he said it came down almost like a leaf, like kind of like it was unstable and maybe had some issues. You know, whatever. I was like, yeah, that's kind of how they fly. Came down and he goes, landed on some pods.

• 38:46Speaker 02

  I said, well, was the camera like on a tripod? Did they anticipate it coming? And I believe he said it was cameras on a tripod, so they were expecting it, so-called, I guess they would be. And, um, and he goes, James, he goes, the most incredible part, this is the part I never forget, he goes, there was no door, like it just like a scene, there was no seam, it just opened, like he goes and just dropped down. Two, um, entities, I guess, came out, he didn't really describe what those look, those ones looked like, because I should have asked, but he, he did describe what the other one looked like, and he had like a, um, like Egyptian head thing, Egyptian, um, tight-fitting suit.

• 39:31Speaker 02

  Uh, I think he said big eyes with the vertical slits, very small nose, very insignificant mouth, and it had what, what appeared to be some sort of what would be a communication device in his hand, and that came off, met with some base, people at the base with a Jeep.

• 39:50AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:51Speaker 02

  That one got in the Jeep and, and, and off, off they went. And that, and I said, well, what happened? And he said, well, the film footage stayed for a minute, and then it just cut, and the disc was still sitting there when it cut. And they were, you know, the steps out and, and it cut, that was it. And, uh, I was like, maybe this footage does exist. And then I started talking to other people about it. You know, Hal Puthoff and Eric Davis and Christopher Mellon, like, well, you know, and to this day, Alan's in his nineties, and he's like, if you know where to look, it's probably still in the archives. I don't know if arrows found it. I know that, I, did Eric Davis say he saw it, or he knew someone that did see it?

• 40:32Speaker 02

  Um, President George W. Bush apparently was aware of that footage, and they had a conversation about it. So I, I actually believe that footage exists. Obviously, I can't prove that, but that's, that's my background on that, on that story.

• 40:45AJ Gentile?

  Have you come across anyone who, um? Could describe what the reason for that meeting was?

• 40:51Speaker 02

  Absolutely no idea.

• 40:52AJ Gentile?

  Hmm. It's connected to the Project Serpo story, but it's just so wrapped up in disinformation. It's really hard to know what, why they were there.

• 41:00Speaker 02

  Well, the information that I just discussed with you, I feel is pretty damn solid. Like it's really solid. That is like enough for me to go, am I positive the film footage exists? I don't know. One can never be positive unless you see it for yourself, but I would say a high level of probability that footage is real.

• 41:19AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 41:19Speaker 02

  And it does exist and they almost got to use it. And I think, I don't know how it got out. And Paul Shartle had gotten a call from Colonel Coleman. He was like, hey, these guys are coming to the base, make everything available. And I guess he had just processed it. And he was like, this shit was real. Like this is not an act. This was, Paul Shartle was convinced of it. He ended up dying and had on collision with his wife. Both died, but he did go on one TV show and talk about it with Emmane Hager. And Emmane Hager was absolutely convinced that the footage existed. He was absolutely convinced they almost got to use it in their, in their film. And, um, and, and the recreations were based on exactly what that footage shows.

• 41:57AJ Gentile?

  So the military there was clearly anticipating that meeting. How long, how far back do you think that goes? The communication, coordination with the military. Does this go back to Roswell?

• 42:09Speaker 02

  I just have no idea. It's all speculation. All I can tell you is what I know, what, what I personally investigated.

• 42:15AJ Gentile?

  Well, that's why we all trust you.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:17AJ Gentile?

  Is because you said, oh no.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I don't. And it's just like people go with the Varginha case. Well, this happened here and there was seven days later, the girl saw him like, yeah, I know. That's odd. Were there multiple crashes? Did the, did the creatures hang out? Did they have an escape pod? Did they go travel through the water? How did they get there? It's a few miles away, several miles away. Like, I don't know. You know, the girls described this creature, and I believe those girls. And that is one of the reasons why I really started digging into the Virginia case.

• 42:46AJ Gentile?

  We're still teasing that one.

• 42:47Speaker 02

  Sorry.

• 42:47AJ Gentile?

  We're still teasing that. And, and actually, when we get into that case, because you're such a magical storyteller. If I step on like any punchlines, if you're building the story, let me know and I'll, I'll let you, I'll let you do it. For this segment, which we're only going to do for another five, 10 minutes. So what's the earliest case that you believe? Do you believe Roswell? Do you believe the multiple crash theory?

• 43:09Speaker 02

  Oh, I know. I could tell you why I believe Roswell.

• 43:11AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 43:12Speaker 02

  If you want.

• 43:12AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 43:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, um, first of all, I really believe, you know, Jesse Marcel.

• 43:17AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  I was friends with his son who handled, handled the debris. Jesse Marcel Jr.

• 43:22AJ Gentile?

  Mm hmm.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  Who was a medic in the, in the military.

• 43:25AJ Gentile?

  And he had the debris that had markings on it, didn't he?

• 43:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. He, well, the, the dad came back from the ranch with Mac Brazel.

• 43:32AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  And one other military guy. And he was, woke his kid up in the middle of the night, like, you gotta see this stuff. I'm waking you up. You gotta see this. And he showed him the material, the, the paper, the I beams with this symbol, blah, blah, blah. And, um, I knew him, so I knew someone who handled the debris. There are still pieces out there, by the way. So I knew other people that when I, when I, when I would go to Socorro, there were the plains of San Agustin and Magdalena and, uh, Dade. And that whole area, we're talking about remote, high desert, like plains. Wow, beautiful. But I talked to a gentleman out there and he's like, yeah, there's, there's still some of those pieces of, of Roswell out here. I said, how do you know? He goes, because I know the ranchers that have it. In fact, I got to touch one of them. I was like, really? Do you think they talked to me?

• 44:17Speaker 02

  He goes, I don't think so. They don't talk to outsiders and they don't talk to anybody about that. So I had a lead on that. I don't have the guy's name, but that's a side story. Roswell, uh, of course you look into it. They announced, they make the announcement that they recover this thing. Then they recant whatever, how many hours later? They have that press conference and they throw debris down on the ground.

• 44:38AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  Well, two out of the three, you know, Raimi and DeBose and Marcel. Raimi kept shut, but DeBose and Marcel both went on the record later. That was a cover story for what really crashed. It was not of this earth. Like, you know, I cover it in, in the, in the phenomenon quite extensively. But I was making, um, Probably out of the blue, probably it was probably out of the blue, or it might have been my first UFO doc in San Francisco I was telling you about. And my, my partner at the time Boris Zubov, uh, lived in this apartment complex on the top floor with a view of Dolores Park, really nice. And he, he, one day he goes, my, uh, my landlady, she's in her eighties, wants to have tea with you. And it was in the nineties. I said, what, what about? He goes,

• 45:21Speaker 02

  I don't know. She found out we were doing a documentary on UFOs and she wanted to have tea. I was like, okay, um, I'll have tea with her. Sure. I love tea. Yeah. I love tea. I'm English. My dad drinks, we used to drink 20, 30 cups a day. And I, I used to joke and they'd see like, how many cups of tea could I bring my dad? Before he says, you know, he doesn't want to. One day I just brought him like cup after cup after cup. Cause he's always asking, it's kind of a pain in the ass to make him a tea. And I got to like 25, like, and he's like, I'm good. It's like, wow. Yeah. So we have tea and she says, um, um, you know, I, I don't wanna, you know, I don't wanna go public or anything. I just,

• 46:04Speaker 02

  I found out you're doing this documentary on UFOs and I want you to know that I think it was her husband or someone that she was, I think, I think it was her husband that was deeply in, um, he was a high level, uh, scientific researcher for the, for the government. And back in the, back in 1950, he told me, and she goes, I haven't talked to anybody about this. She was in her eighties telling me this. She didn't want any money. She didn't wanna like go on the rec, just wanted me to know. She's, he said that, that a UFO, a flying saucer crashed in the desert of New Mexico and there were aliens recovered. He told me that in 1950, nobody was talking about that. She goes, I've held it in all

• 46:46Speaker 02

  this time. And she goes, this guy was like so solid and so credible and so honest. And he told me that. Like that happened. And I thought, why would she make that up? No reason to make it up. And you take that with all the rest of the stuff that's going on and all the military. I said, I, I had the distinct advantage. I got to go to the 50th anniversary of the Roswell crash. And at the time it was 1997, July, you know, there were a lot of people still alive. Because if you're in your twenties or thirties, you're in your seventies and eighties, right? A lot of people that I got to meet, I was so glad I got to go, that firsthand witnesses of all different walks of life, you know, witnesses of debris and whatever.

• 47:26Speaker 02

  Um, so that's, that's primarily why I'm totally, of course, I've talked to intel folks. I even know where the I, I was told where the alien bodies were from Roswell and the individual that told me where they were in California Southern. That's where they went. I've just, that's what it was said to me. No, I understand. Yeah, no. And I said to this individual, I can't reveal this individual's name, but we were at dinner having wine and it slipped out. And I was like, well, I was thinking that, well, I thought they'd be on the East Coast. Really? You should always bring wine to interviews. Totally. And, uh, and then the next day I brought it up and the individual was like, no, I didn't. I said, you did. Actually, we, I heard it loud and clear. No, I didn't. Uh, you did. No, no, I didn't. Isn't that funny?

• 48:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. It just like slipped out. Sure. So apparently the, but there's some body, at least one body from the Roswell in Southern California. I'm not sure exactly where, but I heard Southern California. Yeah, I heard one went to, I went to Los Alamos. Would have gone to the East, I thought, because I was told recently that, that, I don't know if it was alive entities or the entities in general on the East Coast. I got that much out of this individual. It's like, well, where, you know, because I want to know where the damn bodies from, from Virginia went. Right. And, um, oh, you know, I think I know. And I was like, uh, can you tell me more like? East Coast? And I went, and then the individual's like, that's, that's all I'm giving you. I'm not saying anything more. Oh, okay. And

• 48:57Speaker 02

  because I'm like curious too, like even if I can't report on it publicly, I still want to know. Yes. Right? So I was asking. And then we give you wine. Yeah, we, we had, we, we, we, we were together at the, uh, Age of Disclosure premiere in New York City. We watched the movie and there was a Q and A and then afterwards there were drinks at a bar and like, like cock, whatever food, whatever. And I saw this person I've been really want to talk to, and I'd talked to him once before. Standing over the bar with a drink. I was like, mm, good sign. Went over there, got myself a little whiskey. Hey, you know, we start chatting it up. And I didn't want to be too forceful because I can be a little overwhelming sometimes because I'm so curious and I, you know, I get so excited.

• 49:38Speaker 02

  But I was, I was like, I was like, God, you know, I, I heard that, you know, there's not really like that many people like in the real know, like that with the percentage of, you know, how many people really know the bigger picture? He goes, hmm, say about 10, 10 people on the planet at the bigger picture. Wow. Well, what would you consider like where you're at? Hmm. He's like, probably one of 30. Wow. And I was like, okay. What about like Hal Putoff? Because Hal Putoff told me, he goes, you know, James,

• 50:19Speaker 02

  this is how much I know.

• 50:22Speaker 02

  This is how much I've shared with you. He's like, Hal's probably one of 50, I would say. My God. So I said,

• 50:31AJ Gentile?

  Hal shows up in all these stories.

• 50:34Speaker 02

  There's other things about Hal that I can't really discuss with you, but I had some weird telepathic stuff with him that.

• 50:41AJ Gentile?

  You like mind melded with Hal Putoff? I'd like to do that.

• 50:45Speaker 02

  Let me stay on point with this one because I can't really.

• 50:52Speaker 02

  So I said, uh, because I, you know, and I, and I didn't want to pry too much because you know, you, people clam up.

• 50:57AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 50:58Speaker 02

  When you're, when you're too aggressive.

• 50:59AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  But I was, but I was really dying and actually saw Leslie Kane. Uh, on the other side of the room and she was hanging out with people from like either the CIA or the FBI. I can't remember. People's task force. I'll tell you that story a little later because that was funny.

• 51:13AJ Gentile?

  Oh, the guy's serving drinks for CIA.

• 51:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, no, they were knowingly out like we're here, like, you know, and, um,

• 51:21Speaker 02

  I see Leslie look at me and she saw that look on my face. Leslie's known me for a while, like probably almost 30 years, a little under. But she looked at me and she saw, she goes, I know that look because I was, you know, I was really focused. I really wanted to hear from this person. So I said, uh, oh, you know, a couple of sips. Um, I heard that, um, I don't know. Some people say the bigger picture is a little scary.

• 51:50AJ Gentile?

  A little scary.

• 51:51Speaker 02

  A little scary. He's like, yeah, yeah, I could see that. I'm thinking, you can see that? Like, why can't you see that? Like, how? So I said, um, I like pause and like, you know, tried to be measured and calm. And I said, uh, well, like, like, how scary? Well, you don't need to be worried. Okay. Well, what do you mean by scary? Well, intent.

• 52:19AJ Gentile?

  Intent is scary?

• 52:20Speaker 02

  That's what he said.

• 52:22AJ Gentile?

  Oh, you gotta give us more.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  I'm right on the cusp of like, all right, what's the intent of my next question?

• 52:28AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 52:28Speaker 02

  But I was like, you know, and this person with a cocktail came up and slipped in between the two of us. It's, oh my God, I've been wanting to talk to you and da, da, da, da. I'm like, ah. So now that's on hold.

• 52:41AJ Gentile?

  Ah, I told you, you can't trust those bartenders, man.

• 52:45Speaker 02

  Ah, I just wanna, I just wanna know what the hell's going on.

• 52:49AJ Gentile?

  We all do.

• 52:50Speaker 02

  You know, I wanna know what's going on and.

• 52:54AJ Gentile?

  All right. Well, let's take a.

• 52:55Speaker 02

  I don't know. Maybe if I'll ever know what's going on.

• 52:58AJ Gentile?

  I don't know if we ever will. Um, if anyone will, you'll get to it. But we'll take a quick break. We'll come back. We'll talk about Virginia. Fascinating.

• 53:05Speaker 02

  Perfect.

• 53:05AJ Gentile?

  All right. All right. Back with James Fox.

• 53:09AJ Gentile?

  When I first heard about the Virginia case in Brazil, I thought, there's no way there's anything to this. It's, it's, it's a brown slippery alien when the, I was, there's nothing to it. And then, uh, I started doing some research. Of course, my primary source was Moment of Contact and I was like, this happened. This story happened. Do, um, I know that you, your newest doc is sort of an addendum to the first one. Do you wanna, do you wanna tell the original story? Would you rather us cut it in?

• 53:38Speaker 02

  Well, yo, yeah, uh, um, I've got some clips, you know, I'll share those in a little bit.

• 53:43AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 53:43Speaker 02

  But, um, first of all, I wanna say I completely acknowledge and, and, and respect that position. I see it online. I get attacked all the time. You know, and I, George Knapp told me, he goes, "Don't read the comments." Generally, generally speaking, I try not to read the comments. And every now and again, you read them and kind of. Sorry for.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  Because some people are just like, you know, it's really rude. Like you can have a spirited debate and you can be skeptical. That's fine, but don't be an asshole, you know?

• 54:12AJ Gentile?

  If you're on Reddit, you don't know what you're talking about.

• 54:14Speaker 02

  Just really rude. Like just really rude. It's like.

• 54:18AJ Gentile?

  How many times have you been to Brazil?

• 54:20Speaker 02

  So many times.

• 54:21AJ Gentile?

  So many.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  Four times in the last 12 months. Four times.

• 54:23AJ Gentile?

  Wow.

• 54:24Speaker 02

  Last 12 months. I was just there a couple of days ago. And that's why I look like shit.

• 54:31Speaker 02

  But, uh, um. So I totally respect that opinion. And I'll say, I, I myself was there. And again, I'm not putting this out as the gospel. I'm clearly saying that as someone who's investigated UFOs for over 30 years, investigated this particular case on and off for over 16 years.

• 54:55Speaker 02

  I feel that at the very least, even those most skeptical can look at this firsthand eyewitness testimony. Even Michael Shermer said to me, "Well, that's pretty compelling stuff." Like, you know, Michael Shermer, Skeptic Magazine, pretty compelling stuff. Why can't we agree to like, say, "Hey, something significant happened. People saw UFOs. People saw UFO crash. People saw UFO in distress. People saw strange creatures that were intelligent beings with large heads, big almond shaped eyes. The doctor described one of the creatures as being more, more white

• 55:35Speaker 02

  with the same eyes, same big teardrop shaped head, same telepathic communication through the eyes. The girls described something, you know, more brown, suffering, hot heat. The other one was in an air conditioned environment in the ICU. Are they chameleons? Can they do, are there different species on one crap? I don't know.

• 55:53AJ Gentile?

  Now, I know this story well. So if you find me stepping on any of your reveals.

• 55:58Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 55:58AJ Gentile?

  Let me know because you're a storyteller. And I think that's why your document, documentaries are so good is because you clearly are a storyteller. And it doesn't sound like. I don't want to insult you. It doesn't feel like journalism. It feels like you unwrapping this story and the mystery for us, which I love.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  I think it's really important that it's beautiful. David West, who's my DP, he's as into the photography and the B-roll as I am, the topic and the subject matter. It was a really nice combination. A film should be entertaining. It should be beautiful. It should be an experience, right? It should be, but it also should be educational, like, and with a serious tone. And I like to have fun too, as well, because like, without humor, like, you know, come on. We're gonna make some funny jokes in the outtakes and stuff.

• 56:51AJ Gentile?

  The outtakes at the end are great.

• 56:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I also think about, like, the skeptic in the room, and that's great. There should be. We shouldn't just believe, nobody should just believe me because I'm saying a UFO crash and live aliens. I don't expect you to. And I remember when I got back from the last trip when I made Moment of Contact, it was like 2021, late 2021, or maybe it was early 2022, something like that. And I had CNN at my house in Vermont with Leslie Kane, and they were gonna do a little piece on me for the show they were doing. And they were like, "Oh, you just got back from Brazil. It's so exciting. We heard that you're investigating and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, we'd love to talk to you about this on camera." And I said, "Hmm, yeah, that's not gonna happen."

• 57:34Speaker 02

  Like, "Why not?" I said, "I'm happy to talk about the phenomenon. I'm happy to talk about..." I said, "No, because you guys are gonna look at me like, you know, you need to up the dosage of the medication that I'm not even on. And I'll wait for the film to come out, and if you guys want to cover it then, that's fine. And I'll remind your audience, when the first cut of Moment of Contact dropped, people were looking at me like, I mean, people that I was really close to. I mean, I had a reputation of doing the phenomenon, right? I'd interview in high-level intelligence officials. I was the only one to get to Harry Reid on camera before he would diagnose with cancer, like... You know, that was, I, I had a level of access that I'd never had before and, and success that I'd never really had before. That film really transcended the UFO community into

• 58:19Speaker 02

  a much broader, more mainstream audience, which was one of my objectives. And so I That was a, that was a top 10 doc when it came out, I believe. Yeah, no, it was number three in all genres. Right. Number two or number three. In all genres. All genres, yeah. Wasn't Virginia supposed to be? Yes. So, so you looked into it and you said, oh, I gotta do a whole? I looked into it for years and I filmed and I cut it all out. You said, I need to do a whole. I need more, I didn't, I said, we need to find the crash witness, we need to find more of this witness, we need to. Thank goodness. Yeah. And I was like, and my counterparts in Brazil were devastated when they found out, absolutely devastated, I mean, the work we'd done already. And I said, Marco, sit

• 59:01Speaker 02

  tight, I promise you, we're going to go back to the drawing board, we're going to do just, this film needs an entire dedication to just this, this case needs to be a film on its own. We need to go back and do more, you know, research. And we've been investigating. So the film dropped at a time when we hadn't had congressional hearings, we hadn't had David Grush talk about. This is 23 when it dropped? No, I dropped this in 2022. Okay. Yeah, I can't remember the exact date. I'm sorry, but I dropped it in 2022. Which is an eternity in this field. And we had the first congressional hearings either earlier that year, but then no mention of crash retrieval was Andre Carson, Representative Andre Carson put this on. There were no like

• 59:43Speaker 02

  witnesses in the audience. It was like really sterile and, but it was still, you know, a hearing. And then, but we hadn't had David Grush, we hadn't had all these crash retrieval allegations, you know, bodies, you know, I remember when I was not even done with the case, I mean, the film yet, Lou Elizondo was contacting me and he was like, I need a copy. I was like, well, Lou, it's not done yet. I don't care. I need a copy. I need it now. I was like, okay, I was telling my partner, hey, can you do an export with a, with a security, you know? And he's like, yeah, you know, what's going on? I was like, I don't know. Apparently it's really urgent. He goes, you have no idea who's watching this right now. And what he was doing was.

• 1:00:28Speaker 02

  He was trying to demonstrate the Americans' involvement. So he was particularly interested in the second half of the film. Just so he can show various people like, hey, this is real. This is serious. This is happening. Look at this case in particular, not that he was basing everything on that one particular case, but, but he was showing that case. And then little did I know, there was a build to that huge congressional hearing with David Grush. I mean, that was a pivotal moment. Yep. You know, and I, I had people telling me like, you're really going to jeopardize the reputation that you've spent so long, you know, putting together and your access to tell folks. And now you're going to report on this alleged crash and these live aliens walking through the town like, dude, really? And I said, man, I'm telling you, I've been, I've been going there for years. I've been knocking on doors.

• 1:01:12Speaker 02

  I've been meeting with the firsthand witnesses. I'm telling you, there's something to this. Just hear me out, you know? And, um, and I put my neck out and I dropped that film and, um.

• 1:01:24Speaker 00

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• 1:01:55Speaker 02

  I would say it did moderately well. And it was brought up on a number of occasions and Joe Rogan had had me on for the program. And I know we'd sent this other film out for him, but he didn't watch it because he felt the same way I did. This is bullshit as if anybody else would. And then a couple of people on his show, they were like, oh, James Fox's new film. Like, you know, I was watching it happen because people are like, Joe, you know, they're talking about your movie on Joe Rogan. And it was like one, and then another person brought it up. Then there was like a little, another little mention. And then a couple of weeks go by and I'm in workout class. A bunch of middle aged dudes get together, older than middle aged. And, uh, we all just get together with the dudes all. Workout class.

• 1:02:41Speaker 02

  What are we doing? Dude, wait. Yeah, whatever. Yeah. Just, you know, we have fun and we put music on and we work out really hard and we all have a good laugh and, you know? And, uh, every now and again, I'll check my phone because sometimes like my son's got an issue at school or something and. I checked my phone and it's Rogan and he's like, he's like, "Bro, oh my God, I just watched a moment of contact. Holy shit." Like that. I was like, "Oh, thanks so much. I'm really glad you liked it." He goes, he goes, "You want to come on my podcast next week?" And I was like, "Does the Pope, is the Pope Catholic?" And he puts LOL, like, he was really funny. And so that really kind of catapulted it. And then, of course, you know, the congressional hearings and all that stuff started happening and it all started going down. And I remember when I

• 1:03:25Speaker 02

  was watching the congressional, it was one of the first times that my son wanted to go play with me and I was, I sat there in this chair and I was watching it live because I couldn't be there from my phone and I just had tears flowing down my face, just constant flow, like a waterfall, all the whole time, watching it going, all the ridicule, all the laughter, all being made fun of. And now this is starting to come out and I can't tell you what that felt like for me, someone who's just been ridiculed and laughed at. And that's why it's like today, I'm getting heckled and people are complaining about the, you know, there's no photographic evidence and it's bullshit. You know, it's like, okay, so what are you doing? Are you going to Brazil four times in the last 12 months? Are you knocking on doors? Are you meeting with neurologists,

• 1:04:10Speaker 02

  neurosurgeons and forensic pathologists and all these different, you know, firsthand witnesses, tracking down military? Like, what are you doing? Like, I understand, you don't think that I want the photographic evidence? You don't think that I'm going after that with everything in my might? I'm going on every big podcast across Brazil. We have the biggest, we're getting mentioned right now on the biggest platforms in all of Brazil. The events we just did at the National Press Club and the, and the film and the Italo's testimony is exploding across Brazil right now. 23 million followers, 20 million followers. It's like, it's happening, right? We have one of the biggest platforms in all of Brazil. They invited me on it, but I couldn't be there because I was said, "I was here to be with you and I need to go home because my kid hasn't seen me

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  forever." But, but, but if Italo's going and other people, part of my team are going. So it's exploding across Brazil. I'd love to see, you know, we did, we did this big event at the National Press Club where we flew in witnesses to, to meet, we also had that meeting I told you about earlier with a closed door meeting with members of, sitting members of Congress, people in the task force. And just saying, hey, man, you don't have to believe these witnesses. They were very impressed with those witnesses, neurosurgeons, forensic pathologists, you know, it's like, okay, what did you see?

• 1:05:22AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:22Speaker 02

  Face to face contact.

• 1:05:23AJ Gentile?

  Anyone who watches your second.

• 1:05:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, launch an investigation, sorry.

• 1:05:27AJ Gentile?

  Watch the last, stick around for the last scenes of your second cut because they're so touching, but it really drives home that these folks should tell them the truth.

• 1:05:37Speaker 02

  I tell you, man, like, we, there's people are like, well, Dr. Italo, you know, in a video statement said that, you know, he only saw the video. I was like, yeah, that was us. We were going after him two years ago because we have someone who's been, you know, you need to talk to this doctor, you know, so, so we've been doing that. We follow, believe me, I follow every lead. We've been going after it. Marco Layal, my partner, was really food, boots on the ground. I'm always helping support his operations when I'm back in the States. And he gets, he gets finally an interview, just a meeting with Dr. Italo, and it was on a Zoom call. We'd heard that he'd seen the video. And so that's what we're going after. Who showed you the video? Where's the video today? Like that, that was my, my

• 1:06:19Speaker 02

  sole purpose in life during that meeting on Zoom was, and he, he confesses that he did see the video. And we found out the name of the person that shot it unfortunately died of a heart attack, but that person had a widow. He had a mistress who had a child with that mistress. We befriended them. We befriended the widow. We were digging through his, her deceased husband's affairs in his office, bought his computer home. Like, people have no idea like what we're doing behind the scenes. There's other operations that are happening right now that I can't even talk about, but I have a laser-like focus. Now, after that meeting, Italo, I didn't think to even ask him if he saw the creature. I didn't.

• 1:06:55AJ Gentile?

  Well, but, but take us back to 96 first.

• 1:06:57Speaker 02

  I will, I'll just wrap this up real quick. And Dr. Italo said. Yeah, I saw the creature and then he sat down very briefly with my partner and he said, I didn't see the, he was at, did you see the bean? He goes, no. But then he had a heart attack and he had, you know, cancer, health issues. And that's when he decided a year later, I'm going full monty and it went out. But yeah, let's back up.

• 1:07:19AJ Gentile?

  So what is it, January 96?

• 1:07:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:21AJ Gentile?

  If I remember, there's a farmer and his wife see a cigar shaped, school bus shaped object floating over their field.

• 1:07:28Speaker 02

  Enrico and Orelina de Fretas.

• 1:07:31AJ Gentile?

  Yes, de Fretas. And so that happens and then we get

• 1:07:35Speaker 02

  Very believable.

• 1:07:35AJ Gentile?

  Very believable. And then there's Carlos de Souza, right?

• 1:07:38Speaker 02

  Carlos de Souza and the new witness, Fabio Fortado.

• 1:07:42AJ Gentile?

  Oh, right.

• 1:07:43Speaker 02

  That we just got.

• 1:07:44AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:07:44Speaker 02

  And for the first time ever, we got Google Maps. Now, you don't know how things are going to line up. Google Maps, like, that's, that's impressive because it was like, well, this person, where do they live? Well, where do these guys and where's, you know, Orelino and where did Carlos say? And for the first time ever in this new cut, we got Google Maps and we were like, oh, my God. Boom, boom, boom.

• 1:08:05AJ Gentile?

  Absolutely.

• 1:08:06Speaker 02

  Right here. Like, it's right there. So I get goosebumps because, and the same thing for, I mean, yeah, I did the drone shots and I would get locations for different various interviews. Oh, you saw the blockade here? You're the, the media that had the blockade? Okay, it was here. The girls had the encounter here. That makes perfectly good sense why they'd have the blockade.

• 1:08:26AJ Gentile?

  Sure. And then it's three blocks away.

• 1:08:27Speaker 02

  Yep. Just a couple of blocks away. And then the capture, guess what? Just a couple of blocks away.

• 1:08:32AJ Gentile?

  Couple of blocks away.

• 1:08:33Speaker 02

  Then the family of doctors that we interviewed, we got a full aerial view with the drone, just a few blocks away. The family that night saw an operation of a disc flying slow and low over the area. This is the first time we put it together, like, holy shit, was this an extraterrestrial rescue operation? Like,

• 1:08:55Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, I know this is really hard to swallow, but if the accounts should be believed, that's exactly what it was. And we actually have a footage of a disk taken at night. It's one of the best night disk footage. It's in the documentary and we repackage it because I was like, well, hold on a second. That was shot here. How far away is that? Two months after 1996? Oh, wow. Could be connected. Don't know. But um, this family describing this, this disk flying, they were like, oh, I was looking for something. I said, how do you know I was looking for something? The whole family are like, because it was super slow and it was going to the end, stopping, coming back, going in, stopping. I'm like, wow, if that's true, that was an extraterrestrial search and rescue operation.

• 1:09:39Speaker 02

  And guess what? It was right over where the girl saw the bee. It's exactly, if it was going to be looking for anything, that's the spot where it would be looking.

• 1:09:46AJ Gentile?

  So take us through D'Souza, the girls, the blockade, and then the capture.

• 1:09:50Speaker 02

  Yes. So January 1996, there are sightings of a cylindrical shaped object, like people described it as a big school bus or like a cigar shaped. And it was like a metallic kind of polished aluminum, whatever. And had no, didn't make any, very little, little to no sound at all. And it didn't have any visible means of propulsion. Almost all the witnesses described it had a gash in the back of it. One guy, the new witness, Fertado, Fabio Fertado, he said that it was, it clearly was in trouble and it was making some kind of weird noise. It seemed to be in trouble. But he looked at it from above, so he didn't see the gash. But they, they see this thing in distress. They're all expecting it to

• 1:10:35Speaker 02

  crash. Carlos D'Souza, who's an ultralight pilot and a geography teacher, is driving up to the north from Sao Paulo, going up to Torres Carosines, I believe it was, it's in the state of Minas Gerais. And, and very early in the morning, he's going to go meet his buddies, going to go flying ultralights, early in the morning, maybe five o'clock or something. And he's driving on Fernando Diaz, I think it was freeway. And he sees just outside Varginha, this farm called the Maiolini Farm. He sees this scar shaped object, just, he's like, what the hell is that? Like, it's struggling. He's like, whatever it is, it's, it's barely staying in the sky. Like, it's coming, looks like it's coming down.

• 1:11:18Speaker 02

  He thought, maybe this is some sort of experimental military thing, or maybe it's a blimp, or like, what the hell? And then it saggers, and then it just goes boom, and hits this field in this mile, goes off the freeway, drives up this dirt road, gets to the impact site. He's like, oh my God, whoever's, you know, flying this thing, they're, they need help. That's what he was thinking.

• 1:11:41Speaker 03

  He's a pilot?

• 1:11:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, he gets out of the car. And he, he said, James, the first thing I noticed, which I wasn't expecting is normally with a plane crash, you'd smell like kerosene, or, you know, uh, uh, jet A fuel, or whatever, you know, that, that's the kind of anticipated smell you'd get from, from a plane crash. He goes, and this wasn't like that. This was like ammonia and, and like really strong rotten eggs or something. He goes, James, it was so strong, and my eyes were watering, and I had grabbed my shirt, and I pulled my shirt over my mouth, my nose, like, Jesus Christ, what the hell? And he's looking around, he's looking at it, and, and he picks up a piece, what he said, it was like, just like aluminum looking, and he, I don't know, shape, kind of like this, and he picks it up, and

• 1:12:25Speaker 02

  he goes, James, it was light as a feather. It was like, barely feel it in my hands. And, um, just when that was happening, he was gonna put it in his pocket. Military trucks came in from the opposite direction, but he said he crumpled it. And then when they released it, it went right back in its shape, which reminds me very much of Roswell.

• 1:12:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:12:44Speaker 02

  Now, so, so this happens, he gets threatened at gunpoint. Um, he, he leaves terrified, like, really threatened, seriously threatened. I mean, those guys threatened everybody. Everybody that we interviewed, either the blockade, or even the, the media for asking questions, you ask one more question, you're going to jail. You know, this is a national security issue. They, as he said, that across the board to everybody. He leaves, he's totally freaked out. At the time, he was still thinking like, some sort of experiment. He saw something he shouldn't have seen, obviously, but, but he was, he wasn't thinking extraterrestrial. He, he just wasn't. Um, he stops at a gas station a few miles down the road, just to calm, get a coffee. He goes in, he orders a coffee, and then in this black, kind of

• 1:13:28Speaker 02

  dark blue, or whatever, car pulls up, two men in suits, get out, tall suits. And they knew his name, they knew where he lived, they knew his wife's name. All this stuff, you didn't see what you saw. You talk about this, you're gonna have some serious problems with your life, like duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, threatened him and then left. And one of the witnesses at the gas station apparently said, you can't let those people talk to you like that, you need to get their license plate number and here, take this piece of paper and go get their license plate number and report them. He goes out there and there's no license plate on the car and it's gone. So he hears, he starts hearing reports in the media about these girls saw this strange creature. And that's when he was like, shit, maybe it has connected to what I saw.

• 1:14:11Speaker 02

  This UFO crash, like, oh my God, maybe it was not of this earth. So he meets with a researcher named Claudio Kovu. Claudio Kovu gives one on camera statement from him, then he vanishes for 26 years. And that was one of the things when I was talking to my partner Marco Leal, co-producer. I said, we, we gotta find Carlos. And they did, we did ultimately did find him after 26 years. And I don't know how long, how long it took him to finally meet with me in Sao Paulo. And then I said, would you be willing to go on camera after this, back to the site for the first time in 20, whatever it was, 26 years? And he's like, yeah, yeah, I'll do that. It didn't take convincing? Oh, well, we massaged the friendship for a while.

• 1:14:56Speaker 02

  Oh, hell yes. Are you kidding me? The guy didn't have, there was nothing to gain and everything to lose. But Marco developed a friendship. We slowly just like, hey, we're taking this investigation seriously. We really want to talk to you. I'd have to talk to Marco, but it was months and months and months. And then I came there in 2021. And that's when I said, hey, well, maybe you'll come meet us in Sao Paulo. We stayed at a hotel in Sao Paulo, you met with us, we talked, got to know each other a little bit. And then I asked him, hey, we really love to take you out to the site, to the site. And we did. So anyway, fast forward, January 20th, which was like a, almost a full week later.

• 1:15:34Speaker 02

  And these girls Katia, Valkyria and Liliani, ages 14, 16 and 21, were walking through, taking a shortcut, walking through this field. It was like 3:20 in the afternoon. January 20th is hot, so that's our summertime. Yep. Really hot day. And they said that. I was just at the cinder block wall. They said that there was some graffiti on the cinder block wall in this field they were going through and that kind of caught their eye. They're looking at this graffiti and then they're looking, they're like, that a statue? Like, what the hell is that? And there was like this creature like, kind of slumped over and just looking, I mean, not really moving, just kind of sitting there up against the

• 1:16:18Speaker 02

  wall. The wall is here. And And they're right here, right? They're right there, 10 feet away, maybe eight feet away. And all of a sudden, I think Liliani, who's 16, she like screams, like, oh my God, what is that thing? And it turns and it looks at them, locks eyes. And there was communication with the eyes. Liliani is 16. She's got a younger sister, Valkyria. She grabs her younger sister. I mean, there, she said there was communication. This thing was stressed. It was terrified. It was suffering. It was like really wanting help. But they were thought it might be the devil. It had red eyes, like, you know, it was oily and suffering and the heat and really suffering.

• 1:17:03Speaker 02

  She said, this thing was suffering. Grabs her younger sister Valkyria, leaves Katia, who's 21. They high tail it out of there. She gets, I don't know how far, 100 feet, 150 feet. She's like, shit, we left Katia. So she's like, you stay here Valkyria. And she left her 14 year old sister there and she ran back. And Katia had just locked eyes with this being like, for a prolonged period. She grabs Katia, yanks her out of there. Katia, to this day, I was just with her a couple of days ago. Katia's like, I was gonna help it. Because it was saying to me, either help me or leave me be, like, don't hurt me. Help me or leave me be. She's like, I wanted to help it. And she's like, and I

• 1:17:45Speaker 02

  didn't. And I ran away from it. And then it got captured. And I feel so bad. I don't know what happened to it. She really said that. She's like, I think about it all the time. So anyway, um, the girl's high tailing out of there. And about 5, 5:30, uh, two military police officers, one by the name of Eric Lopes, people pronounce his name differently, Lopez, Lopes, L O P E S. They're on patrol for something unusual.

• 1:18:16Speaker 02

  I don't think they said an ET is roaming around, but it was definitely some kind of strange creature, some whatever, just on patrol. And his friend and fellow police officer, military police officer, Marco Chariz was off that night. But he called him up and he's like, hey, I got this crazy, like, you know, a sign man I'm supposed to be looking, you know, oh, you want to come with me? Sure. Gets in the car. And three blocks, two or three blocks away from where the girls had seen it, a couple hours later, that creature goes right across the road in front of him, screeches the brakes. Marco Chariz, without a moment's hesitation, leaps out the back of the car and he grabs it with his bare hands and puts it in the car. And they take it to, they take it to Bon, Bon, Bonaparte.

• 1:19:01Speaker 02

  I just learned the exact hotel. I'm sorry, I can't remember the name of the hospital. The first one, apparently some person came out, some doctor came out and took a look at the creature, was like, get that thing out of here. I don't know what that thing is. And so they go to regional hospital. Yes. They drop it off at regional hospital. And then Marco, now there's speculation because the autopsy report, Marco got like scratch under his arm. They weren't sure if it was a previous existing abscess and that maybe the bacteria that killed him from the creature came from his nail or came from the whatever, open cut, or that he got scratched by the nail of the ET in the process of, it wasn't aggressive, it didn't put apart like any bit of a fight, but he got this infection, he was hospitalized within

• 1:19:42Speaker 02

  a week or two, and he was dead within a little, three weeks, something like that. And we've interviewed his sister, we interviewed just recently in the new cut of Moment of Contact, new revelations of alien encounters. It's the first time I've ever really put that kind of blatant thing in a title, but, but it really is alien in the sense that, you know, we've got now this neurosurgeon describing face-to-face contact, all the girls, with a creature that was alien to them and alien to everything they'd ever seen. But we have the two forensic pathologists, one that did the autopsy and then the other one, Dr. Janini, who's owned the company IPD Labs, that did the analysis on the tissue samples

• 1:20:22Speaker 02

  and he's like, he's like, it's a rare bacteria on earth, but this had evolved in a way. That that was super resilient to any kind of antibiotics or any kind of treatment. He goes, I've never seen it behave in that fashion anywhere on earth. And I've done over 50,000 autopsies, my business, that bacteria. And he says it on the record, like, you know, then he gives a statement, which you can provide your, your audience with. So that's pretty unprecedented, you know? And then.

• 1:20:56Speaker 00

  LinkedIn is pretty amazing at helping you grow your small business. We cannot make your email response time faster. We can help you sell, market and hire in one place. We cannot help you find space for your three desk drinks. Why do you have three? And while we can't help you find the perfect volume for your presentation video, LinkedIn can help you find the perfect audience for your business. Grow your small business on LinkedIn. Learn more at LinkedIn.com/smallbusiness.

• 1:21:27Speaker 02

  I don't know if you want to go into, we got the capture and then, and then now for the first time, because we didn't really know what had happened to the creature that was dropped off. And there were multiple, at least two, and now we're thinking there's possibly more, because more reports coming in, more details. We got the chief of police, Pedro Aguiar, we got his testimony for the first time ever. And he died just months later. God, we got that. And we're working with his family. And he didn't testify in the first cut, did he? Oh, no, no, no, no. He kept, he was like a bar soap in the bathtub. Right. Because we had heard that, we had heard that he had a photograph. And that's why we were going after him. Because I was going after, honestly, mate, like, I was going after, I had enough,

• 1:22:11Speaker 02

  in my opinion, there was enough credible firsthand eyewitness testimony in the first cut, for me to go, all right, now the only thing missing is that photograph or that video piece. So that's what I was, that's what I, I had a laser, like, I still do. But that led us to a bunch of people, a whole bunch of people, some of which I'd still need to remain nameless because it's ongoing and I don't want, you know, the military to get there before I do. So I'm having to be kind of somewhat secretive, but I can assure your audience, there's no one on the planet that wants that more than I do. Trust me. And if I sat there and explained to you the lengths that I'm going to, that our team is going to, Alini Cross, by the way, is a new producer on the new cut, I throw a shot out to her because she's amazing. Um, yeah, I'm working with someone who's actually

• 1:22:54Speaker 02

  completely bilingual now with Marco, I love him to death, but his, his English is not, you know, so it's really frustrating, but now I'm getting crystal clear communication with all the people. It's like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. Um, but we, we were, we were led to him, to the chief of police by photographic evidence. And then as it turns out, we find out that he too participated in the event and saw the creature. So like more and more stuff that comes out and we're now starting to think that the creature that Dr. Italo, the neurosurgeon at regional hospital saw was the first capture because he saw it during the morning of the 20th and there was the capture by the, um, two, there was a fire department. And when you're in the fire department of the police department,

• 1:23:36Speaker 02

  you're with the military. It's all connected to the military. And so we now have details of, um, the chief of police, Pedro Aguilar, both from three of his children, his wife and his lawyer, all on camera for the first time. And, um, and now we have vivid details of what he saw that first capture. And we think that that possibly is the one that, that the, what, what the girl saw was not the same creature as what neurosurgeon Italo saw, because I was like, well, wait a minute, when were you at the hospital? He was like, I saw that thing in the late morning. Well, that capture happened in the morning and that was also alive. So now They're both alive, right? They're both alive. Yeah. Yeah, they're both alive. So now we're thinking, but there's

• 1:24:19Speaker 02

  also reports of, of a dead one. We got the guy at regional hospital that did the x-rays that wanted to be anonymous. Yes. Marco went after him for five, six years when he was still working at the hospital. No, no, no, it's just no, no confirmed. Yeah, yeah, I participated. I took x-rays of it. It was in a bag, blah, blah, blah. But we finally got him to go on the record. Thank God, and he's vanished ever since then. And then we got military acts, so we knew. Didn't they steal his or grab or confiscated all of it? All of it. It's the first time in history. And they were like, thank you very much. Shut your pie hole. Yeah. So, uh, but anyway, sorry, I'm rambling because there's so many little bits and details that I'm learning. But I'm thinking now that we have that first morning capture on the 20th that took place with the firemen.

• 1:25:03Speaker 02

  Now we have vivid details of that for the first time as of three days ago, that that's probably the ET that Italo saw. Now, were they different, um, races or species, slightly different variations of, they all have the big teardrop shaped head? Or are they like chameleons? Can they change when they're suffering? Do they smell when they're scared and suffering in the hot heat? Maybe they excrete? I, I really don't know. It's all speculation, right? Can you describe like what, what the creatures look like? Cause these weren't typical grays. Yeah. So, uh, what the girls came within a few steps of in broad daylight, all three of them, uh, was a, um, about three and a half feet tall, uh, creature, spindly arms, spindly legs.

• 1:25:44Speaker 02

  Some people say that like it had like toes like this with another one that maybe came out the side for stability. Right. Maybe in unless they're walking. Um, and it had a big teardrop shaped red eyes, big head, tiny mouth, slit for a nose, um, no, no, no real ears to speak of. And, and the girls described it as like an organ, like almost like a heart, like the skin was like a heart or oily. Excuse me like that, but like no hair. The oiliness is the strangest detail to me. Yeah. I wonder like, they all said it was suffering in the hot. It was a really hot day in the, in the summer, all sunshine. It was suffering, cowering, frayed. Did it exude that? Did it change color? I don't know.

• 1:26:29AJ Gentile?

  But one of your witnesses made a really interesting statement about that that I hadn't considered. That maybe, he said it looked like latex or silicon.

• 1:26:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:39AJ Gentile?

  So maybe it was a suit of some kind?

• 1:26:42Speaker 02

  No, it definitely was the skin because I, because we interviewed military acts who'd seen it in the, in the hospital. That one was dead and that was at Humanitas Hospital. There are other, um, we have names of other doctors at Humanitas that are aware of, of it and are not, according to my contacts, I'm really in with the medical community now. I'm like, I just flew him to, to DC. I mean, we're like family now. We go to the local restaurants. We hang out with all these, you know, top neurologists and forensic pathologists and, and so, and they know what's going on, believe me, and I'm knocking on their doors and, and I think it's,

• 1:27:26Speaker 02

  I think they're seeing that Dr. Italo, who by the way, has everything to lose and nothing to gain. And if he's lying.

• 1:27:34AJ Gentile?

  And he was in the room with this thing.

• 1:27:36Speaker 02

  Face to face contact for three or four minutes with a live being of non-human intelligence. Communication through the eyes, limited, but he said that despite being in captivity, it had control of the room.

• 1:27:50AJ Gentile?

  His testimony is.

• 1:27:51Speaker 02

  It's so riveting.

• 1:27:52AJ Gentile?

  Riveting and gut-wrenching.

• 1:27:54Speaker 02

  He said that he, you know, da, da, da. I was like, all right, well, let's just say he wasn't ready to fully, the fact that he admitted seeing the video a year or so earlier was incredible. He wasn't ready to come out. I mean, the implications of a neurosurgeon who runs the department at this, at this are significant for a number of reasons.

• 1:28:12AJ Gentile?

  And Virginia is a military town.

• 1:28:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. And his, like, okay, you just have to look for a motive, right? He's not selling a book. He's not selling a doc. He's not selling his story. He would have to be lying because I'm friends with all of them now. His wife, he'd have to be lying to his wife. He has to be lying to his kids, both his daughter and his son, who just became a father a couple of days ago.

• 1:28:41Speaker 02

  His coworkers, his colleagues of 45 years in the medical community, cardiologists, neurosurgeons, forensic pathologists, lying to all of them. In fact, I have a video that I'd like to show for you because I brought the doctors together just a few weeks ago. First time, the known doctors, the ones known involved with the case. Dr. Cesario, who worked on the military police officer Marco Chiesi before he died. He's like, I threw the kitchen sink at him and I've never seen bacteria not respond to any of the antibiotics we gave him. It was like, it just doesn't happen.

• 1:29:13AJ Gentile?

  I confirmed it independently. They shut down that hospital for a couple of days.

• 1:29:17Speaker 02

  There was another, that was, yeah, that's where they did the x-rays. Yeah. But, so we got Dr. Cesario, we got Dr. Italo, the neurosurgeon. Dr. Cesario, I think is a cardiologist. Dr. Dr. Janini, who founded IPD Labs, who studied the tissue samples, who said that he's never seen a variant of this bacteria in his life. He gave a statement on that. You can feature that. Then the guy that did the autopsy of the deceased, brought them all together for the first time. How long have you known Italo? How long have you known? Just like 35 years, 45 years. This is like, do you believe him? And they're all just like, yeah, why? Where's the motive? He's not asking for a dime? He's lying to the whole community?

• 1:29:59Speaker 02

  He's still doing brain surgery at the hospital? All of his staff? His wife, his daughter, his son, his coworkers, his colleagues? Not asking for a dime? Not selling anything?

• 1:30:12AJ Gentile?

  The most compelling.

• 1:30:13Speaker 02

  What's his motive? And if it's true, and I'm pretty damn convinced it is, because it lines up with everything, if it's true, it's the most significant development in the history of the phenomenon. We've never had it before where you've had face-to-face contact with a captured alien. No testimony, particularly of his stature. It doesn't exist. You don't, it's like, people that poo-poo this case, it's like, if you look into it, there's never been this much firsthand eyewitness testimony in the history of any UFO crash cases ever before.

• 1:30:45AJ Gentile?

  Didn't Dr. Italo hear it in his mind? Didn't he communicate with them?

• 1:30:48Speaker 02

  He had, he said, he said, there's a lot to learn from the eyes of that being, that it had the most.

• 1:30:55Speaker 02

  Tranquil, peaceful, compassionate, nonjudgmental stare that he's ever seen from anything. And he kept describing it as a higher level of intelligence. He also revealed some details because I really went through it before we did this event at the National Press Club. Um, which you guys can watch on, uh, I think it's News Nation covered it live. It's out there for free. You can just watch it on YouTube, whatever. Um, but I really hammered him hard on, because I wanted to get every possible detail I could in the short period of time at the National Press Club. And he was like, yeah, the bean, my first time I looked at it. Cause he was like, he goes, well, first of all, my partner, Marcos Venises,

• 1:31:37Speaker 02

  did a little procedure. I think it was like a sutra, whatever, a little stitch or something. And he goes, I was in there for an unrelated issue in the hospital. And my partner, Marcos Venises, fellow neurosurgeon grabbed me. And normally he goes, normally when he grabs me in the hallway, it's like someone's dying. I need your help immediately. He goes, it was urgent. Grabs him and takes him into the ICU. And there was a makeshift ICU with like a, like a makeshift curtain kind of thing. And then before that, he's got a video that he's showing them on this screen of some procedure he just did. And he was like, what the hell am I looking at? What is that? And he described, maybe children get this really weird thing where their heads can really swell up

• 1:32:20Speaker 02

  and weird deformity, deformities, whatever. He's looking at it and goes, yeah, man, it doesn't look like it's from, what the hell is that? And the doctor, Marcos Venises goes, it's right there. So he draws the curtain or goes around the other side and he goes, I said, how long was it before you knew it wasn't this earth, non-human? He goes, the second I looked at it, I was like, holy shit. Like, and he looked at it. And he goes, my medical profession was initially like, okay, I look at a patient. Is it in distress? Is it breathing? Is it, you know? And he did a quick evaluation. And he was like determined that like, it was, it was okay. It was stable, whatever.

• 1:33:05Speaker 02

  He's looking at it and then the creature looks out the window. And it was a blue sky. And looked out the window like longingly, like it wanted to be out there. And then it looked back him in the eyes. And that's when he said he got. The real communication happened, what he was no longer looking at as a patient, he was looking at it as, as an entity, as a higher, higher level, advanced intelligence entity. And he said it just had, like, like it was looking at him as though he was a child. Do you know what I mean? And here we got a neurosurgeon, who's like running the whole department, operates on people's brains, plays piano like Mozart, and he goes, it was looking at me almost like

• 1:33:47Speaker 02

  a child, not condescendingly, but like it was so advanced, so much higher, like an angel. So he described it as an angel. He did. And, um, and I just say to people out there, it's like, you know, you have to look, first of all, we tracked him down and we, we wore him down. And then he had a heart attack and he was lying, lying in the ICU staring at the ceiling after we'd already confronted him on the video, because that's when I was, I was after the video. And he, um, he's like, if I, if I come through this, I'm, I'm not, because Marcos Venises died of a heart attack in 2018. He goes, I'm not going to let this story to the grave. The younger generation needs to know this happened and I'm a firsthand witness. And so we went back, we went back, as I do, in January of 2020, was that 2025 or, January

• 1:34:31Speaker 02

  2025, was that a year ago? Yeah, we went back and that's when we, we interviewed the two forensic pathologists and we've been trying to get ahold of Italo because we knew like the video, you know, didn't know that he had a heart attack, didn't know that he had like prostate cancer and surgery and all this other stuff. And, um, and we got the, he would respond and then he would disappear and it was like, you know, I jokingly said it was like grabbing a bar of soap in the bathtub because he was like poo poo poo, you know, like, ah, he was just there. And then Dr. Armando, credit to you, mate, who, who did the autopsy on the deceased military officer and provided the tissue samples to Dr. Janini, he's like, I was like, yeah, you know, while we're here, we really want to talk to Dr. Italo.

• 1:35:14Speaker 02

  And he keeps like, kind of responding and then disappearing like he wants to, or he seems conflicted, like, uh, and then he goes, oh yeah. And right there in the middle of the interview, just walking up. You know, talking and he's like, tomorrow morning, go to the hospital and he wants to meet you on the backside, 10 o'clock, the time it was.

• 1:35:34Speaker 00

  LinkedIn is pretty amazing at helping you grow your small business. We cannot make your email response time faster. We can help you sell, market and hire in one place. We cannot help you find space for your three desk drinks. Why do you have three? And while we can't help you find the perfect volume for your presentation video, LinkedIn can help you find the perfect audience for your business. Grow your small business on LinkedIn. Learn more at LinkedIn.com/smallbusiness.

• 1:36:04Speaker 02

  Backside of the hospital. Okay. What's he gonna, you know, we're like, shit, get all the camera crew ready. And that's when he stuck us through the maternity ward, down the corridors, through the hospital, all cameras rolling, put on some gear. I'm like, what's happening? Why am I putting this gear on? Takes us into the ICU. That's where it happened. In that room. In that room. Oh, my goodness. All on film. We captured it as it happened. Honestly, I don't even think he was prepared to go full Monty until like that, the morning of. And like our partner, Alini, production partner, she's been amazing. And she's got a really, so does Marco, but she has a really

• 1:36:44Speaker 02

  um, a wonderful, non-threatening presence about her. You just look her in the eyes and you just go, okay, I'm in, I'm in good hands here, you know? And I know that he grabbed her hand and he, and she was looking at me like, okay, I'm just, you know, here I go. Took us through various corridors. Then all of a sudden, I'm putting on medical, you know, mask and what am I doing? Like, I don't, everything's happening so quickly. We're all just, takes us into the ICU. And it was like, this is where the video? No, this is where the creature, I saw, huh? I was like, it all came out. And then the staff of the managers and everything came in, started screaming at him. And he was like, fuck, I think I might have just lost my job. And it was like, oh my God, I'm just trying to

• 1:37:29Speaker 02

  process what just happened. Holy shit, we have a neurosurgeon? Who just confessed that he had direct contact with one of the beans in captivity for three or four minutes in that bed right there. Do you know what I mean?

• 1:37:44AJ Gentile?

  Yep. I don't think he was prepared for how emotional he was gonna get.

• 1:37:47Speaker 02

  So then we get kicked out. Like, he's like, I think I might have just lost my job. We get, we go out, we're like, well, let's carry on this conversation. Where are we gonna go? We walk out, we're on the sidewalk now. How about this cafe? Boom, walk into a cafe, we take over the cafe. We all sit up, set up shop. And I was trying to get more out of him and, and I was like, I'm just trying to process. We all were. At one point, I think it was David, no, I don't know who, maybe it was me. Grabbed a camera, I think I, I did, I actually grabbed the camera from Dave West, my DP, and I just panned it across, because I was like, I need to see everybody's faces right now, because this is incredible. And you look, look carefully, even the sound guy, who was somewhat skeptical when he started on this journey with us, and now he's like, holy shit.

• 1:38:29Speaker 02

  And, and you see Marco like wipe his forehead, we're all processing. And, um, and then I said to him, what does it feel like after 29 years to come, to talk about this?

• 1:38:43Speaker 02

  And he was like, I feel like I want to cry. And he started to cry. And then the camera turned on me. And I was trying to talk.

• 1:38:53Speaker 02

  The words weren't coming out. And I really didn't want to, like, I was like, I didn't want to cry, because I, you know what I mean? Like, I want to keep it together and stay composed and, but I couldn't talk, like, I was like,

• 1:39:07Speaker 02

  I wouldn't be doing this for all these years, all the laughter, all the ridicule, all the hecklers, if I didn't really believe this. Like, life is too short. You know what I mean?

• 1:39:18AJ Gentile?

  It was the most touching part of the whole film.

• 1:39:20Speaker 02

  My sister died, like, life's too short for bullshit. And I'm not saying, like, you have to believe this case. Don't, don't believe it. Check it out. Listen to the testimony. If it's true. And I'm putting my career on the line here, but if it's true, this is the case that's going to prove it once and for all.

• 1:39:37AJ Gentile?

  Remember Carlos's reaction when we took him to the scene?

• 1:39:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:40AJ Gentile?

  How emotional he got?

• 1:39:41Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 1:39:42AJ Gentile?

  You can't fake that.

• 1:39:43Speaker 02

  You don't need Leonardo DiCaprio or Brad Pitt anymore.

• 1:39:47AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 1:39:47Speaker 02

  And then I get choked up and then it's like, I've known this doctor, I mean, we met on the phone, he jokingly calls me, oh, my God, because when he confessed to seeing the video, he was, I was like, oh, my God.

• 1:39:57AJ Gentile?

  Where's the video?

• 1:39:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, well, we could talk about that in a minute.

• 1:40:01AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:40:02Speaker 02

  Um, uh, you know, he hugs me right there on camera and he holds me, like, holding my hands, like, really, like, we bonded right there in that moment. Like, can you imagine the weight off his shoulders, like, and the risk? Like, he's got everything to lose. And again, I'll tell your audience, like, this guy's not selling anything.

• 1:40:21AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 1:40:21Speaker 02

  He hasn't asked for a dime for his story. He's still doing brain surgery. He's like, I'll take a public lie detector test tomorrow with my hand on a Bible, whatever you want. I saw this thing and the younger generation need to know they're real.

• 1:40:34AJ Gentile?

  That coffee shop conversation was the lie detector test.

• 1:40:37Speaker 02

  Incredible, right? How do you, you know, so, again, I understand the skepticism and I know the, the, the need for videotaped evidence, photographic evidence, there's nobody in the world trying harder than I am, okay? I promise you that. And I can tell you that the military is, is following me, following this case, no question about it. We're just trying to get to the people first. And I have a proton email, which I'd actually like to provide to you because I'm telling you, any witnesses, because before people were getting in touch with me on regular email and I'm thinking, that's not a good idea.

• 1:41:10AJ Gentile?

  Nope.

• 1:41:11Speaker 02

  I'm under surveillance, like, so we got a proton email now and I'll provide that to you.

• 1:41:14AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, we'll put it on screen.

• 1:41:15Speaker 02

  Flash it on the screen. People can reach out to me because we're looking for folks on the American side, we're looking for videotaped evidence, we've announced a very large reward for said evidence, I've done it on huge podcasts all across Brazil, we're doing more podcasts right now, TV episodes, and we're stronger together.

• 1:41:34Speaker 02

  And courage is contagious, and I've been saying that to people. We're stronger together, and courage is contagious. And, and believe me, there are other doctors and there are people that are watching very carefully what's happening right now.

• 1:41:46AJ Gentile?

  Are there any videos you want to show us? We have about fifteen, maybe twenty before the next break.

• 1:41:49Speaker 02

  Yes, okay, I think this is important. Sorry, I'm gonna wipe my nose here. This, this is, this is just a couple of weeks ago. I'm happening to be with Amar from Yes Theory. His team actually filmed this. And in, in Varginha, Brazil. And we're at Dr. Armando's house. Who was the guy that did the autopsy on the deceased military officer. And it was the first time in history we brought all the known doctors together. And so I just wanted you to share this little video and I'll play it for you. Question, I'd like to, I'd like to ask Janini, how long Janini has known? Oh, it's okay, I don't need to hear it, yeah.

• 1:42:22AJ Gentile?

  And I thought we had subtitles, boys. No, yeah, there we go.

• 1:42:25Speaker 02

  It's all in English. Oh, yeah, some of it's not.

• 1:42:29Speaker 02

  So basically, I'll let them. That's Dr. Sisario.

• 1:42:36AJ Gentile?

  And where did you shoot this?

• 1:42:37Speaker 02

  I shot this at Dr. Armando's house in Varginha, Brazil, just a few weeks ago. That's Dr. Janini, who studied the tissue samples, analysis, forensic pathologist. The guy to the right is Dr. Armando, who did the autopsy. And then Dr. Italo's right there, grabbing his arm. He, he had face-to-face contact with a living entity at Regional Hospital on January 20th, 1996. And I'm asking these guys, how long have we known him? Do you guys believe him? And everyone's like, I've known him forty-five years, I've known him thirty-five years. He's still doing brain surgery, like. You know, I just think it's important, and it got their wives there. All their wives are there. Their children are there, like. This is like, real, you know what I mean? Like, these guys, I just can't imagine, why?

• 1:43:25Speaker 02

  How he would benefit from lying. I'm at a loss. Yeah, right now. Yeah, so that's, and anyway, I don't have to go through all of these, but I want you to, um, if you're seeing this or not, but we don't, I need to watch this, but. Whatever you play, we'll see. Yeah, so this is, I'll just describe this, this is, I took video statements from, um, firsthand witnesses, children, wives, that's one of the sons of a firsthand witness that was in military police, this is his daughter, this is his wife, all saying, yeah, my husband was a firsthand witness, he saw the creature. It's important because he said he was a firsthand witness, his name is Pedro Aguiar, he was

• 1:44:10Speaker 02

  the former chief of police, and he's the one that participated in our film and then died. Now, he told us on film that he was the first, that he did see the creature, he did participate in the event, but he didn't go into any specifics, but it's one thing to like, you know, go on camera and say that, but then when he tells his wife, and he tells his children, yeah, man, this happened, this is real, I participated, and then we talked to his lawyer, it just changes everything, and this is the actual site, so on the other side, oh, I might actually play this, kind of fun, so you know, um, the cinder block wall where the girls came within eight to 10 feet of that creature in broad daylight?

• 1:44:52Speaker 02

  So on the other side of that wall, just like that far away, is a mechanic shop, so we went over to the mechanic shop, and we actually got one of the, one of the witnesses who was on the other side of the wall, well, the ET was there, and he talked about like, he got there right after the girls had seen it and saw the imprint where it was, he smelled the smell, like. The ammonia, the sulfur, everyone says that. Yeah, yeah, he smelled it, he smelled it, yeah. There he is, right there in the blue shirt, exact location, the girl saw the creature, and this guy's a mechanic. That's the cinder block wall, and then right on the other side of that wall was the mechanic shop. He was there that day. Isn't that crazy? Unbelievable. Yeah, and he's like, oh yeah, I walked right over here, I saw the thing on the

• 1:45:32Speaker 02

  ground, I smelled it, I, I missed it, so he was working on a car, when the girls were looking at an ET, like, right there, you know, it's so crazy, you know? Anyway, there's a bunch of other statements that, so we. I had Liliani, Valkyria, and Katya apply for visas. We had Military X who drove the creature. All of his military records, all of his photographs of the truck that he was in the operation, driving the creature. We had Marta, the sister of the deceased military officer. We had-

• 1:46:12AJ Gentile?

  What about Marco's wife, the officer who died? It was Marco, right?

• 1:46:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, get that one second. We, I hired an immigration lawyer. They were gonna come. The military guy who drove the bloody creature was gonna come. And he goes, "Look, I'll meet with members of Congress behind the scenes, full identity, show them who I am. I drove the creature, blah, blah, blah. But, and I'll also go up to the podium, but I'm gonna go up there with a mask." And I was like, "That's, yeah, great."

• 1:46:40AJ Gentile?

  And I told the audience before, I was able to track down who that guy was. He's a legitimate, he's legitimate.

• 1:46:45Speaker 02

  I've seen all the photographs. I actually got a statement from him with showing me all the photographs. I'll probably be releasing that soon for free, so people can see. But I'll have to blur certain things out and change his voice. But all their visas unfortunately got denied. It was like six, as we go through all the different names. But yeah, devastating. And I even had Congressman Burleson's office working on getting their approval. One was approved. Katya was approved on the, on the spot. They all went together. Lilian, let's see, Liliani was denied, Marco was denied. And then there was Military X, Marta, and

• 1:47:27Speaker 02

  Katya. They were under additional review. So it was like three under, two denied, three under additional review, and then one approved. So that was a pretty good ratio. So-

• 1:47:36AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, but denied on what grounds?

• 1:47:39Speaker 02

  Who knows, man? They don't really say anything. It's like, "Oh, ask a couple questions?" No. So anyway, but then we got Congress involved, immigration lawyer, and we're going back and forth. And then after, it kept waiting too. Like, I was like, "Could you guys, where are you guys? Like, I'm doing this event. You know I'm doing this event." Like, could, you know? And then, long story short, they waited, waited, waited, waited, waited, waited, to the last possible, like, towards the end of December. In fact, I got back, I got back on Christmas Day. And my son's like, "Where'd you get me for Christmas?" I said, "Me." And, yeah. And, and so-

• 1:48:16Speaker 02

  God, maybe the 20th, 15th, I don't know, of December. Even the one that was approved, all done. So we flew back to Brazil and I did statements. And those are some of the statements. If you want, I provided them to you. You guys can show.

• 1:48:30AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 1:48:30Speaker 02

  The various statements. It's on a podium. The city of Virginia, with help of the mayor, gave us this official space with the Brazilian flags. It's a great backdrop. And we did, you know, short 90-second statements from the various people that had their visas denied and other people as well that did. Anyway, you should play some of those with your audience.

• 1:48:49AJ Gentile?

  We'll put those in. We'll put in the autopsy photos. But I want to know about Eric Lopes. Lopes shot. Did you ever get a hold of him? Because his scene in the first...

• 1:48:57Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:48:58AJ Gentile?

  The first cut was unbelievable. We threatened to shoot you guys if you didn't leave the property.

• 1:49:01Speaker 02

  Well, I got a new development just a couple of days ago. There was another security guy that met with him and he said that he was, he was like, you know, I wasn't, I don't think I would have shot James, but I was, I was seconds away from taking my gun out and fire pop, because he did have a gun, as we suspected he did. But he was gonna shoot a couple in the sky first. That's what he, that's what he said. But we did get a hold of his, his wife. Now, his wife, funny story, his wife is the sister of Marco Cherez, the deceased military officer. Yes.

• 1:49:37AJ Gentile?

  Marta?

• 1:49:38Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:49:39AJ Gentile?

  Oh.

• 1:49:39Speaker 02

  Marta is, sorry, yeah, Marta is Marco, yeah, so, sorry. Marco Cherez, who handled the creature and died, had two sisters.

• 1:49:48AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:49:49Speaker 02

  Marta and his other sister, I'm sorry, I don't remember her name, but she married Eric Lopes after his death. Because they were, they were really good friends and they'd known each other, right? And so I contacted her through Marta. Somehow I got her number. We went through either Marco or somebody else. What is it gonna take to get, and this is after he threatened to shoot us. What is it gonna take to get your husband to come forward? She said, bring my brother back to life.

• 1:50:16AJ Gentile?

  Ah.

• 1:50:17Speaker 02

  And he'll come forward.

• 1:50:18AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:18Speaker 02

  But we're still working on him. We're still working on him. Other people are working on him. The mayor sent a police officer around to his house a week ago. A police officer liked to talk to him. And he didn't want to talk, but he, he might, he might, he might talk. He might at some point talk.

• 1:50:36AJ Gentile?

  If he sees what Dr. Italo did, he might?

• 1:50:38Speaker 02

  He, he might, he might. It's getting more attention now than ever before. And, um... Yeah, again, I just say that this is, you know, this, we've had this debate for decades, crash retrieval, Roswell, all this stuff, all the congressional hearings, all the allegations from top, you know, aerospace engineers, physicists, that we have a crash retrieval, a legacy crash retrieval program. And this case could, could really settle the debate once and for all.

• 1:51:07AJ Gentile?

  It really could. We'll take another quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about whatever you want, but I would like to get into how suddenly the United States Air Force shows up on this case.

• 1:51:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, for sure.

• 1:51:18AJ Gentile?

  All right, we'll be right back. Back with James Fox.

• 1:51:21Speaker 02

  That's a nice ring, too.

• 1:51:24AJ Gentile?

  A big turning point for me in Moment of Contact, because I was riveted, and then we get to, I don't know, about two thirds through, and suddenly you're interviewing someone who was a aircraft controller.

• 1:51:42Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:51:43AJ Gentile?

  And now the US Air Force enters the picture.

• 1:51:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:47AJ Gentile?

  So it seems like we've got Virginia, Campinas, ESA, and USAF, as they call it, USAF.

• 1:51:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. Did you see the FOIA request that we did in 2022? And we got a response in 2025 from the CIA?

• 1:52:01AJ Gentile?

  Yes, and the response was?

• 1:52:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, accessed, "We can neither confirm nor deny. Due to the National Security Act of 1949, your request is denied."

• 1:52:11AJ Gentile?

  It's like, CIA? What the hell was the CIA? What?

• 1:52:17Speaker 02

  Really weird. Yes. So I think it was 2021 when I was shooting for the, whatever umpteen time, and that's when we finished shooting for Moment of Contact, the first version of it. It has been going on for 16, almost 17 years, my God. And the flight control officer, Marcos Feres, F E R E S, came forward on a podcast, he's like, "Yeah", and he's friends with this other flight control officer, they were, they're friends. And he said,

• 1:52:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, this, you know, on or around the 20th of January, this USAF flight was coming in. I was like, USAF, United States Air Force, USAF. Excuse me. And, um, and he goes, it didn't have all planes coming in from outside the country. Have to have government, Brazilian government authorization to land. This plane didn't have that. And, um, he goes, I have to deny a plane without this authorization. A high level Brazilian military official came in the room and said, let the plane land. And it landed at an airport in Campinas. I have the name of the airport we talked about in the movie, but, um, and either one helicopter

• 1:53:40Speaker 02

  or two helicopters came out of it. It was probably a C-17, according to all the Air Force people that I've talked to. Uh, it was a cargo plane. Helicopter went to Brazil, came back. It was two helicopters came back, loaded some stuff, excuse me, loaded some stuff on the plane and, is what he said, went back to, uh, America undisclosed location. So we, um, filed a FOIA for all incoming flights from the US into Campinas in January. I think I put like maybe January 10th or something to the end of the month. It was like two weeks or something. Yeah, for a two, three week window. Discover a base went like a week extra on both sides.

• 1:54:25Speaker 02

  And honestly, the response came so late, I forgot that we even sent the FOIA. And then in 2025, we get a response from the CIA. And that's when they, you know, denied. So now we actually made this plea at the National Press Club last week. Was it last week? 10 days ago, whatever. Um, a, a United States Air Force Colonel, uh, spoke and retired.

• 1:54:53Speaker 02

  Also fighter pilot had a really dramatic encounter with UFO in 1980 over Europe, northern Europe, incredible story, but he, uh, he's like, look, let me just tell you the, the, and he talked to members of Congress too. He's like, let me just tell you if that flight happened, and I suspect it did, uh, there's going to be paper trails. And he went through all the different scenarios, like the, the, you know, the flight, you know, the flight distance of full tanks is 2,500 miles, the distance is 4,500 miles, therefore it had to have air support. That's going to be paper trail. When it landed, had refuel, there's a receipt who paid for the fuel. That's going to have a court. And it had a, I don't care if it's a classified mission, it's going to have a flight plan going back. There's another paper trail and goes through all the various things. And we did that primarily

• 1:55:34Speaker 02

  for members of Congress or ourselves. It's like, hey, you don't have to believe this case. You can find it compelling enough to dig a little deeper. So now we have members of Congress that are willing to, you, part of the task force, hey, let's go find those flight records. Let's see what we can turn up. So now it's just like, hopefully, you know, they're not, they probably are, of course they are aware of the fact that we're going after these records. So hopefully they're not like getting rid of them, you know? So, yeah.

• 1:56:03AJ Gentile?

  Did you say you have tail numbers or any identifying information on those?

• 1:56:06Speaker 02

  We, yeah, so we, the, um, Colonel, uh, identified every single, uh, C17 in the fleet at that time. And there were, I don't know, a handful of them from various bases and got every single tail number. Cause we have photographs of what could have been one of the flights because there was somebody in 1996, but it wasn't at Campinas. It landed somewhere else to refuel and some Amazon, some researcher told me about it. So we want to see if we can read that picture carefully enough that we could make out a couple of the numbers. So the Air Force Colonel has been finding all the tail numbers. Now he's getting flight records for all those. This is all happening right now. So we're trying to find that specific plane, flight, landing, where it landed. Cause we could find out

• 1:56:51Speaker 02

  like where it landed. We could find out potentially like who the crew were, how many people were on board, where those people are today, right?

• 1:56:57AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:56:58Speaker 02

  He estimates that 30 to 40 people at minimum, Americans would know about that flight, were involved with that flight directly or indirectly. So that's where we're making a plea to anybody on the American side, because wouldn't that be great?

• 1:57:11AJ Gentile?

  Yeah. What do you think was loaded on that plane?

• 1:57:16AJ Gentile?

  The bodies?

• 1:57:16Speaker 02

  ET and uh

• 1:57:18AJ Gentile?

  Two bodies, it's the

• 1:57:20Speaker 02

  I don't know how many bodies. I don't know how many bodies. I would say at least two, at least two. Uh, and, and probably some of the debris, I would imagine. I don't know.

• 1:57:31AJ Gentile?

  What gives United States military jurisdiction over that?

• 1:57:34Speaker 02

  You know, a reporter asked a question, that very question a couple of years ago to an intelligence official. You know what they said? Because we can.

• 1:57:42AJ Gentile?

  Write a check or?

• 1:57:44Speaker 02

  Oh, we're coming in.

• 1:57:45AJ Gentile?

  Or, we're gonna get it.

• 1:57:47Speaker 02

  We're coming in.

• 1:57:47AJ Gentile?

  The easy way, the hard way.

• 1:57:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, we just took out a president in Venezuela.

• 1:57:52AJ Gentile?

  True.

• 1:57:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:53AJ Gentile?

  True.

• 1:57:54Speaker 02

  So we got a UFO crash. My understanding is that the Americans were aware of these, this UFO coming in and alerted the military officials in Brazil. And I've heard that from a number of researchers. In fact, I've even gotten close to getting a name of who provided that. But anyway, I've heard that from a number of pretty credible sources.

• 1:58:12AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, I was able to track down some information about um craft being seen in that area over that time. And then it kind of goes dark.

• 1:58:20Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:58:21AJ Gentile?

  So my suspicion is that uh, that there were some radar hits about those craft in that area, or at least one of them. And then someone got involved and said, "Stop tracking it. We got it. You guys don't need to worry about it." That's my suspicion.

• 1:58:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm optimistic. I mean, you know, it takes one courageous American to come forward, you know, and reveal that we get the flight numbers. Maybe they don't come forward publicly. Maybe they come forward in a skiff with certain members of Congress, part of the UAP task force. There are a handful of congresspeople that I, that I actually trust, that I think really do want to get this information out to the public, that are really seriously and, and authentically interested in um, knowing more and being more transparent, because they feel like everybody has a right to know about this stuff. And so I'm optimistic on that front. And you know, like I said, like, we had meetings and Leslie Kane's article that people should look up, Leslie Kane and

• 1:59:20Speaker 02

  Ralph Blumenthal in the debrief, gives a very detailed account of our meetings, our closed door meetings on, on the Hill, with firsthand witnesses on the case. And our plea to them, like, "Hey, you don't have to believe these guys. They found their testimony very compelling. And they were very, very interested in what the doctor had to say, I can assure you." And um, really asking very detailed questions to him. When is it you have a neurosurgeon describing face to face contact with a live entity from non-human intelligence, right?

• 1:59:48AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:59:48Speaker 02

  Never before in history. So there seemed to be a genuine concern, a genuine willingness to, to do some digging behind the scenes. And then, and then Congressman Burleson attended the, the conference and spoke, as did a senator from Brazil. So, um, you know, this could be the beginning of the beginning.

• 2:00:09AJ Gentile?

  It could be.

• 2:00:10Speaker 02

  Could be the beginning of the beginning.

• 2:00:11AJ Gentile?

  What is it about Brazil? Because we have compelling cases going back to at least the seventies, like the Klaris case.

• 2:00:17Speaker 02

  Fifties.

• 2:00:18AJ Gentile?

  To the fifties.

• 2:00:18Speaker 02

  Ubatuba.

• 2:00:19AJ Gentile?

  Oh, but that's right.

• 2:00:21Speaker 02

  Yep, there's actually metal material.

• 2:00:22AJ Gentile?

  That's right.

• 2:00:23Speaker 02

  High, low, high, a hundred percent magnesium. I can't remember what the, but it's very unusual and it would be, it would, the, I'm told, I'm not a metal, metallurgist, but I'm told by like, I think it was Gary Nolan and Jacques Vallée, who've studied the metal samples, isotope, isotope, they looked down into the microscopic level.

• 2:00:43AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:00:45Speaker 02

  That it would be extremely expensive to replicate what they found in that beach in 1957. It was reported something exploded and it rained down all this debris on a beach in Ubatuba, that was like 1957.

• 2:00:59AJ Gentile?

  That's right. It was, it was witnessed by, by a fisherman actually rained onto his boat and killed his dog.

• 2:01:04Speaker 02

  Oh, really? I didn't hear that part, yeah.

• 2:01:06AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, that, uh, some of that metal was tested and they found using electron microscope that it was ranged in a lattice that could serve as a, as a waveguide for electromagnetic spectrum in the terahertz range.

• 2:01:18Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:01:19AJ Gentile?

  Which is something that we couldn't, we couldn't do that in the fifties.

• 2:01:21Speaker 02

  Wow. I just remember Gary Nolan telling me that it would cost so much money to replicate, even today.

• 2:01:27AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:01:28Speaker 02

  So that was impressive. But then you have, uh, Klaris in the seventies, very fascinating case. First case I've ever heard of where there seemed to be some level of hostility.

• 2:01:37AJ Gentile?

  That's right. Do, uh, well, tell us about the case. Tell us what you know.

• 2:01:40Speaker 02

  Well, what I know is I haven't done a deep dive into this case. Jacques Vallée has, I think Jacques Vallée has probably written a book about it. Um, there were, uh, this was, uh, this went on for a while. It might've been the whole year of 1977. It might've been longer, but they were, um, UFO scene, uh, there were beams coming down from some of the UFOs attacking some of the people in the village, burning their skin, or maybe they're taking skin samples or blood samples, I don't know, that's what was reported. There's other, uh, testimony of the Americans got involved and they came and that there was film footage of an object the size of a football field, shape of a triangle coming out of the Amazon. Um, that footage apparently exists, there are a bunch of photographs that I actually feature in

• 2:02:25Speaker 02

  the first cut of Moment of Contact, original photographs that were released by the Brazilian Air Force.

• 2:02:31AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, over a thousand photographs.

• 2:02:32Speaker 02

  There was also, uh, exactly, and all kinds of documentation, all kinds of stuff come out of that case.

• 2:02:38AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, if you guys want to look this up, this is Operation Prato, which means saucer or plate.

• 2:02:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, uh, yep, yep, plot, Operation Plateau, yeah, it's a plate or whatever, a disc. Um, and, uh, and there was a military gentleman who actually featured his testimony in the first cut of Moment of Contact, and, uh, he went on camera and he had died under extremely mysterious conditions. He apparently had a close encounter of the third kind, he actually saw the entities, and that was in the seventies. He like hanged himself in this hotel or something crazy, you have to look it up, but, um...

• 2:03:14AJ Gentile?

  Hung himself from the, almost the base of his bed, it's very strange. And I think that was just about two or three weeks after he gave testimony.

• 2:03:20Speaker 02

  He had that on-camera testimony.

• 2:03:21AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, to, uh, to Javert.

• 2:03:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, really good. I mean, thank God, I know, it's terrible. So that's, that case, then you had UFOs over Brazil in 1986.

• 2:03:31AJ Gentile?

  Was that the year of the saucer?

• 2:03:32Speaker 02

  Uh, it's called UFOs Over Brazil.

• 2:03:35AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:36Speaker 02

  So that's kind of what it's known, uh, 1986, and, uh, they had a press conference, they had the pilots. I mean, quite honestly, it was very similar to the two consecutive weekends in Washington DC in 1952.

• 2:03:47AJ Gentile?

  That's right.

• 2:03:48Speaker 02

  It was like, almost like an invasion, you know, and they, they engaged with them, the, and the, and the airplanes, I, again, I feature some of that in the first cut of Moment of Contact, if you guys want to check it out. And then, of course, you've got, uh, Varginha, which quite honestly, I think, I can't think of a better crash retrieval case, particularly involving the Americans, uh, known, uh, in the world. I think it's the, I think it's the best, most well documented, and it's getting better by the day.

• 2:04:16AJ Gentile?

  It is.

• 2:04:18Speaker 04

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• 2:04:47AJ Gentile?

  There's something about the Amazon that intrigues me.

• 2:04:51Speaker 02

  You know, yeah, and I apologize to your audience for this. I mean, the only case that I know extremely well, and I've done sort of a glance at the other cases, but the one I put a laser-like focus on is Virginia. I know that case pretty well. I've been really digging my... And I learn new stuff every day. I'm trying to put more pieces of the puzzle, and there's still missing pieces. But like I said earlier, I think this is a case that could settle the debate.

• 2:05:18AJ Gentile?

  For sure. How long did it take the US Air Force to get involved in that?

• 2:05:23Speaker 02

  Almost immediately.

• 2:05:23AJ Gentile?

  Really?

• 2:05:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, because according to the flight controller, it was on or around the 20th. So it would have been, you know, the same day, or maybe the next day after the girl saw the creature, like all that activity and hoopla. I don't know the exact date, but it was on or around the 20th of January, and the flight came in, and all the military people I talked to, everybody involved in the case, all say, "I can't say this for sure, but rumor has it, the Americans came, the Americans came, the Americans came, the Americans came, they came to Kimpenas." And we have the very gentleman that was one of the people in operation of the transport

• 2:06:04Speaker 02

  of one of the beans, possibly two of the beans, from Humanitas Hospital, and went to, as a military base, apparently they backed the trucks up to the wall for, I don't know, a few hours of the night, and then they continued their journey on... Dom Pedro, I think it's called freeway, all the way down to Espasex Military Base in Campinas. And then that's when the Americans landed. And actually, it's so funny, too, because you hear all the accounts of the people that we talked to. It's like, yeah, they all, even including the military chief of police, he said the same thing. Campinas, that's when the Americans came in. So it's like, everything makes sense.

• 2:06:40AJ Gentile?

  It does.

• 2:06:41Speaker 02

  The accounts of the plane came in here, this is where I dropped it off, it all went here, like, it just, big cargo transport plane, helicopter coming out the back, going to Virginia, it's like, what the hell else were they doing there?

• 2:06:53AJ Gentile?

  Was that, was Dr. Itulow's patient, was that being still alive?

• 2:06:57Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:06:58AJ Gentile?

  It still was alive?

• 2:06:59Speaker 02

  Fully alive. Well, yeah, I mean, I don't know how long it stayed alive, but it was fully alive and fully doing well on the 20th.

• 2:07:08AJ Gentile?

  Wow. So when you spoke to Eric Davis, he talked about alien species, he talked about the Greys, the Nordics, a lot of these, so what's the taxonomy of this particular alien that was in Virginia? I mean, how many species? I know we're speculating, but this is a storytelling show.

• 2:07:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, this is really, this is, okay, so there's a, a segment with Jacques Vallée, because he was unable to attend the press club meeting that we had. And it was January 20th, the 30th anniversary of the incident, and that's when we held it in Washington DC, and we presented, because Jacques couldn't be there, and Jacques goes out on a limb and describes various cases and different types of creatures or beings or non-human intelligence, or whatever you want to call them. And I think that you should, you should show your audience that clip, because it's very interesting. He talks about exactly what you're, what you're mentioning now.

• 2:08:06AJ Gentile?

  Do you get a sense of, are these beings from other planets, or are they here? What do they want?

• 2:08:15Speaker 02

  I wish I knew.

• 2:08:16AJ Gentile?

  Speculate.

• 2:08:17Speaker 02

  Well.

• 2:08:17AJ Gentile?

  I mean, it's, yeah.

• 2:08:19Speaker 02

  I, I mean, from all the different people that I've talked to and all the different alleged firsthand witnesses to close encounters of the third kind, there seems to be different races, different agendas, different. I mean, because you got, you know, the quintessential, you know, almond shaped eyes, black eyes, gray, spindle the arms, spinning legs. That seems to be, you know, the worker bee or whatever. Some of them think that they're biologically engineered, you know, entities with intelligence. What, what do I know? I, you know, that seems to be, some people describe brown skin or white skin or gray skin. But the big eyes, the big teardrop shaped head, the three digits, like three fingers and a thumb.

• 2:09:05Speaker 02

  Seems to be fairly consistent. But then you've got people like Travis Walton. Describing creature, human looking, you know, like beautiful blonde, blue eyes, humans. Like very attractive, I guess they call them the Nordics.

• 2:09:23AJ Gentile?

  The Nordics, the tall whites.

• 2:09:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, whatever.

• 2:09:28Speaker 02

  You've got those types and then you've got, you know, if the, the account is to be believed, you've got, you know, Jason Sands and his convoy in 1994. Talks about this and he was, I was really odd is that, you know, he was dressed in military outfit. And Jason said they were all like looking at his boots and his boots and he'd been walking through the dry desert, dusty desert. His boots were immaculate, like spotless. But he described the big eyes, but they weren't almond shaped. They were just really big, dark and no, no real ears. Yeah, no ears, no, you know.

• 2:10:07Speaker 02

  And that's a different type. And was that entity, if it's true, was that entity capable of projecting how it wanted to be seen? Sometimes you wonder about that. Like, why was his military outfit spotless?

• 2:10:21AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:10:21Speaker 02

  In the desert, according to the witness, you know?

• 2:10:25Speaker 02

  So.

• 2:10:29Speaker 02

  We could be dealing with all the above. We could be dealing with like interplanetary, maybe there's something that live under the oceans, maybe, maybe they live on the backside of the moon. Who knows? You know what I mean? Like, maybe they're right here. Maybe they're interdimensional. They come in and out. Right. Just like tune, you know, change the frequency a little bit. I, I really don't know. I'd love to know.

• 2:10:52Speaker 02

  I'd love to know how many different species or races. I'd love to know what their agenda is. I'd love to know why they don't make their, their presence more overtly known. Um, cause you look at like, I've, I've studied a number of different, like, you know, so-called landing cases, whatever. You know, I can go into detail with that, but. Please do. Well, like, I, okay, I'll just go into a little bit. 1964 was April 24th, 1964. It was a police officer by the name of Lonnie Zamora. He was in hot pursuit of a speeding car. It was like, it was a late afternoon. It was around coming up on five o'clock. And, um, he saw this egg shaped, white egg shaped thing whiz across the road in front of him.

• 2:11:35Speaker 02

  Like, maybe off in the distance, some kind of flash. He thought maybe it was like a dynamite shack that might have, I don't know, something he needed to go investigate. So he terminates his, his police chase. He takes a right and he goes up this dirt road and down in a royal. He sees an egg, basically it could be a Tic Tac, right? An egg shaped object had a little symbol on it. And two small childlike creatures stepping around on the bottom, just like, you know, outside on the ground.

• 2:12:09Speaker 02

  Excuse me. He's like looking, he's like, God damn, is that, is that like, is a car crash? Two kids? Like, what the hell am I looking at? And one of them, excuse me, one of them looks him right in the eyes and he's startled. The, the creature was startled. Lonnie was startled. So Lonnie breaks contact and he drives, cause like, so the road, let's say the road is like here, right? The road wraps around like that. He's here and he sees the landed craft and the entities and he gets face contact. By the time he got around to here to get a closer look, the craft was still sitting on the ground, spooling up, but the hatch had closed because

• 2:12:54Speaker 02

  they heard a thump and the creatures were gone and the craft departed. Now, if you look at where the craft landed, just on the outskirts of town, I don't know if it had a problem with their gathering soil samples, God only knows, I have no idea. But they did it in a spot that would minimize any potential exposure. They landed in this little recessed arroyo, right? So they would minimize the chance of being seen. And when they were spotted, they were evasive and they got in and left. They could have established some level of communication, could have driven over there, they could have, you know, they didn't do

• 2:13:31Speaker 02

  that. They left. Now, if you look at the Travis Walton case, which I consider a very credible case, because there were like seven witnesses, seven witnesses of the craft and his alleged, I would say abduction, I think, I don't think it was an abduction, I think that he got into the way of the propulsion of the craft and, and affected him somehow and they came back and got him, brought him back to life and then dropped him off. Now, if you look at where, where they dropped him off, where they took him was a very remote area in Snowflake, Arizona, up in the mountains. I've been there several times. It's remote, okay? He would have died if they had dropped him off where they picked him up. They didn't do that. They

• 2:14:13Speaker 02

  dropped him off on the outskirts, five days later on the outskirts of town, if the accounts were to be believed. They dropped him off on the outskirts, close enough to like a payphone or, you know, where you can get help. But they did it at night and they did it in an area that was a dip down, where they could like drop him off and then get the hell out of there to minimize any potential for any exposure. So they cared enough to, for his well-being, but they also didn't want their presence known, widely known. Do you know what I mean? I do. So you look at like cases like that and you go, all right, well, you look at what they do, what they do, and then you look at what they don't do. And sometimes what they don't do... Is evidence of of potentially their objectives or their agenda?

• 2:14:57Speaker 02

  You know, because if they wanted to make themselves overtly known, they'd just hover over the next football game or, you know, Super Bowl, whatever, game over. Yeah, take me to your leader. But they don't do that. Nope. They did some pretty bold maneuvers. I call it like the show of force during the 1940s and 50s. Uh, when they were fleets of them flying over America. I mean, it's all the newspapers. Actually, 52, the 52 wave was phenomenal. Mm hmm. Um, and you look at the White House buzzing the Capitol building in 1952, two consecutive weekends, scrambling military jets. That's pretty provocative, right? You look at the case in, um, uh, what was it? June 13th, 1997. Don't quote me on that exact date. Sorry.

• 2:15:41Speaker 02

  Uh, March, March 13th, 1997 in Phoenix. That craft, even according to the governor, Fife Symington. Oh, this is the Phoenix Lights. Phoenix Lights. I investigated that on and off for 10 years. And I interviewed families that said they were lying on their front lawns, watching this colossal mammoth, like a floating city, like float over the top, big boomerang shaped thing, where they could look up and see metal compartments, blah, blah, blah. For hours, this thing was up. Oh, yeah. It went from the north all the way down to the south, ended up like Tucson over, flew over Interstate 10. I mean, it was witnessed by so many people, including the governor. Right. And, uh, that's pretty provocative. Mm hmm. Like flying low and slow. And it was done at a time when everyone was out of, under the night sky, trying to get a glimpse of the Hellbog Comet.

• 2:16:24Speaker 02

  So that's provocative. I mean, that's, that's something, right? And then you've got Hudson Valley sightings, you've got the Belgian sightings in the late 80s, early 90s. Provocative. I mean, I interviewed a police officer who was involved in the Hudson Valley in the 70s. I don't know the exact year.

• 2:16:43Speaker 02

  But he said, this massive triangular shaped, size of a football field, object was floating over the top of him. I talked to the police officer myself. He goes, I was kinda curious. I took my flashlight out and flashed it at the, at the object. This is in the seventies. And he goes, son of a bitch, that thing responded? Bam, a laser beam light down at my feet. Wow. Like shit, I wasn't know if that was like a friendly gesture, or if that was like a shot across the bow, like. So there's been some very provocative, do you know what I mean?

• 2:17:18AJ Gentile?

  I do.

• 2:17:19Speaker 02

  Um, but they don't make themselves overtly known, which also makes me wonder, I, I, you know. Yeah, like I said, you, you look at what they do and you look at what they don't do.

• 2:17:30AJ Gentile?

  We've got, um, clearly something's happening. Clearly, uh, the military or someone knows what's going on. Do you ever find yourself frustrated that you're almost playing a cat and mouse game?

• 2:17:41Speaker 02

  Very much so. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, the Virginia case, like, you know, I'm all in on that right now.

• 2:17:48AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:48Speaker 02

  And, um, there's nobody on planet earth that would like to find that photograph, find that piece of video footage. Now we have names and people that had it from people that have seen it. I just got a new name a couple of days ago from a doctor, a neurosurgeon. And we were texting back and forth with them and, um, like, well, I'll talk about whatever, but I don't want to talk about, you know, Virginia. You know, it's like, but he, this individual confessed that he was shown the video from Marcus Fenesis, but not on the record yet. But we're going to continue working on him. So we have names. We're hoping that people are watching all the attention this case is getting and that people are gonna, you know,

• 2:18:33Speaker 02

  decide, hey, man, if I'm ever gonna come forward, now's the time. Cause people in their forties are now in their seventies. People in their fifties now in their eighties. You know what I mean? Like now's the time. So it would have been thirty years ago. So how old would have Dr. Italo been? He's seventy-four. So he would have been what? Forty, fifty, sixty? He had been forty-four.

• 2:18:51AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:18:51Speaker 02

  About forty-four when it happened. You know, he's seventy-four. So someone in their forties, they're, you know, they're on the cusp of retirement. You know, probably a lot less to lose, wanting their grandchildren to know the truth. So I'm, I'm encouraged. I think, I think it's, it's ripe. Now is the time that this stuff could come out and it is coming out, but more. We've seen a few more doctors. We need the video and we need the American side to come forward and then we've got a slam dunk.

• 2:19:21AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, it's the American side. I think that's the bottleneck there.

• 2:19:24Speaker 02

  We're working on it.

• 2:19:25AJ Gentile?

  I hope that video still exists because a lot of people are invested in making sure it never sees the light of day.

• 2:19:30Speaker 02

  That's for damn sure. That's for sure. We were in contact with people. After, uh, after the first cut came out, we were contacted by a number of people. Sometimes, you know, you can kind of tell, cause I've been contacted for years by witnesses. You can just kind of tell when you get one that you go, mm, okay, this is raising an eyebrow. And that's when, you know, someone will, it's very short. It'll be like, I've got what you're looking for, you know, kind of thing. It's supposed to writing me like a novel. It's like, you know, I don't, it's like, and, and, um, they, they could have been joking, but, uh, you get back in touch with them and they're just gone.

• 2:20:11Speaker 02

  It's like, well, why did they, you know, and so it makes me paranoid thinking like, am I being watched? Again, we did a proton email, which you're going to put on the screen.

• 2:20:20AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:20:21Speaker 02

  For people to get in touch with us, particularly anybody on the Americans, anybody who witnessing the Virginia case. And not to be rude, but if you have a whole UFO story that's unrelated, please save it for another time. I just want to put a laser light focus on, on Virginia, uh, video or any participation in the flight, um, from Campinas back to the States. I did get contacted by one individual via email. He said it's been weighing on me and my family for decades. I was like, oh my God, we did it, you know? And then I was, he's like, you contact me like this, I'll show you the email. You contact me like this, just, you know, conversation is terminated. So I did everything he told me to do, waited about 36 hours after he sent me the first email.

• 2:21:05Speaker 02

  It was like, oh my, oh, uh, this isn't who you think it is. My email got hacked and, uh, I don't know anything and goodbye. So I just thought, really?

• 2:21:17Speaker 02

  So I waited like six months and then I sent a separate email, not part of that thread based on the email address. Hey, this is so and so tree service. You know, I'm coming to cut your hedges, duh, duh, duh, because I was hoping like maybe he'd be like,

• 2:21:29AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 2:21:29Speaker 02

  I just need to meet with you to give you an estimate, you know, and I was like, do you know what I mean?

• 2:21:33AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:33Speaker 02

  Because I thought, well, maybe. And then I finally got some little response and I thought, oh, and then it was just.

• 2:21:42AJ Gentile?

  How do you, how do you vet your stories? How do you, how?

• 2:21:44Speaker 02

  Well, you gotta go meet the people. I mean, you know, and also, you know, I tell people, because I had people telling me just last year, like, we've got, I've got the video. It was a woman. I got the video. You need to come. I'm giving it away for free. I just, I can't, this is a burden. I don't want this in my life anymore. I want it out of my life. Like, just get it away. It goes to her husband's or something. And I said, I'll come, but I said, I can't just drop everything in the middle of, I'm editing a movie. Fly, excuse me, fly all the way to South blah, blah, blah in Brazil without any kind of proof. Like I, you know, I'm just, I'm sorry, I can't do that. And we went back and forth for a long time. And I said, just show me like two frames, just one picture and I'm

• 2:22:25Speaker 02

  on a plane tomorrow. And then after like months of back and forth, like, you know, I'm down, we're term, and that was it. That person's gone. Did she have it? Was she bluffing? I don't know. But I wasn't willing to fly away to Brazil just because someone said they had it.

• 2:22:41AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:22:41Speaker 02

  Maybe she did have it. I don't know. But why wouldn't you show me one screen? Send me one screen and I'm there.

• 2:22:48AJ Gentile?

  What, what pictures have you seen that, that you were convinced like this is legit?

• 2:22:53Speaker 02

  I would say one of the best photographs ever.

• 2:22:59Speaker 02

  It's in my film, The Program, which you can watch for free on YouTube movies. And it's bloody good, man. We got the back, we got a bit of background on it as well. Taken in 1990, Calvine, Scotland. And David Clark is the researcher that uncovered it. And it's a long story, but I'd heard about this case because I interviewed Nick Pope, who was part of the MOD UFO desk in the 90s. And I probably interviewed him in the early 2000, well, I talked to him in the early 2000s, probably very early 2000s. And I was like, oh, you were at the UFO desk? What was the best case? You know, like, what did you see? You know? Nick Pope goes,

• 2:23:44Speaker 02

  Oh, there was two hikers in Scotland. He didn't say Calvine. He just said Scotland, broad daylight, six prints, beautiful like diamond shaped, you know, like craft hovering in the sky with a military jet going around. I was like, you gotta be kidding me.

• 2:24:03AJ Gentile?

  You can see this online if you guys want to look at it.

• 2:24:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:24:04AJ Gentile?

  The Calvine UFO.

• 2:24:06Speaker 02

  I pastored him and I pastored him and I pastored him and I, he goes, we had a big poster of it on the wall and da, da, da, da, the UFO test. He goes, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. And I said, Nick, no one threw that picture away. It's still somewhere. Like, what about the names of the guys that you work with? They're retired. Where are they now? Like, da, da, da, I pastored them, pastored them, pastored them. They could never, excuse me, I could never get it out of them. And then this researcher, David Clark, he finds some FOIA documents, released documents from the British, from the administrative defense, and it's, one of them was like redacted. It was like the Royal Air Force

• 2:24:51Speaker 02

  Press Officer blocked out in blah, blah, blah, Scotland. And he's like, who is the Royal Air Force Press Officer in Scotland? And that is, oh, Craig Lindsay. So he contacts Craig Lindsay. And long story short, which went on for a while, Craig Lindsay had gotten a call from a local newspaper, maybe it was like the Scotland Yard or something, any of you look it up. And they said, oh, you know, we're, we're here trying to, you know, get a quote from the RAF about this, about this UFO photograph. And he's like, I don't

• 2:25:35Speaker 02

  know what you're talking about. What are you talking about? They said, well, there's these two mates, these two guys that are going to publish this story. And we just want to comment on what this might, what this could possibly be. It's got a military jet. He goes, well, I haven't seen it. So I don't know what you're talking about. They said, well, we'll send you a print. So they sent him a print. He's like, holy shit. Like this is, it's good. And.

• 2:25:58Speaker 02

  So he immediately, I think he can't, what, yeah, it does contact the M O D and then the M O D contacts him and he starts to investigate. He meets with the witnesses at a hotel. They tell them their account. They said it was hovering. It was silent. They were terrified. They were cowering beneath the tree when it was hovering there. There was like, what are we looking at? They had a camera. And he said, uh, they said that a military jet came in. And at that point, they got enough courage, the military jet did a full pass. It went in around the entire object and the six, I think it was like six or seven prints. It was picture, to do, to do, to do. So all the pictures is relatively the same

• 2:26:41Speaker 02

  object, same spot, same tree, all that ground, everything with the jet in a different position. So, uh, you know, Craig was like, well, what kind of noise did it make? And the witnesses were like, we didn't make any noise at all. It was just completely silent. He's like, oh, I don't know. He's a Royal Air Force press. Obviously, I don't know any planes, anything without any wings, any visible, you know, blah, blah, blah. And then as he's in the middle of this investigation, he gets a call from the M O D and they were like, we'll take it from here. Thanks. And that was the end of that. Well, he keeps that print in a book and kind of forgets about it. Then he retires and it's whatever, thirty, thirty-three, thirty-four

• 2:27:23Speaker 02

  years later, and he finds the damn thing and he gives it to, he gives it, that's the only reason why we have that photograph. Yep. Thank God to Craig Lindsay, because they buried that story. Mm hmm. And, and I interviewed Nick Pope and he's like, they wanted to bury it and they did. And then, and then at the last possible, like, minute of production with the program, the documentary I was just talking about, uh, there was a guy, I always get his name wrong. Um, Greaves, Richard Greaves. And he's like, he's like, you're, he called me, he's like, you're mispronouncing my name. Is it Greaves? He's like, no, it's Greaves, Greaves.

• 2:28:04Speaker 02

  And he, and he describes what happened. He goes, I, I knew those blokes. I was, you know, he was up there and he said they were on a cigarette break. Couple of days after they were about to go public. Black car rolls up. There are these men in black again. Heard of them, met them a thousand times. Yep.

• 2:28:22Speaker 02

  And he said, they came up, they got out of the car and what he, what the way he describes the guy smoking behind the wheel, it's the funniest thing. Richard Grieves should be a comedian because the way he described this guy smoking, I was like, I've never heard anybody describe the way inhaling so hard it lit up the whole cabin on the inside of the car, just really sucking the cigarette down. And then he's, the driver stays in, it was a Mercedes, two guys get out, it cigarette breaks over, yeah. Take the two guys pissing rain outside in the pissing rain, talking to them, they're all the other workers that were not participating in the event itself, didn't take the pictures, didn't witness, they were looking through the window, watching this whole, pissing rain, it was raining so hard and they were just standing in the pissing rain, getting drilled by these two men in

• 2:29:07Speaker 02

  dark suits, long overcoats. He said, they came back in, I'll never forget this, he's like, why is a fucking ghost? Just, you know, scared the shiza out of these two witnesses. Started drinking heavily, sleeping in their cars at night at the, at, at, at the hotel, and then they vanished after a couple of weeks. They're, to this day, they've never been seen again. Oh, that story. Yeah.

• 2:29:35Speaker 02

  That is such a good case. Now, the pilot, it was a, the Harrier jump jet, that's what I was told, it's in the picture, most likely, they said it's pretty likely to be a Harrier jump jet. That pilot would have been, what is that, was 1990, so that would be like, what, uh, 36 years ago, coming up on 36 years? So 36 years, let's say the pilot was in his mid 30s, could have been up to 40, maybe, 35, 35, 30, 35? Well, it would be a 65 now, maybe 70, 65 or 70. If you're out there listening, you've got my proton email, give us a call because I can guarantee you, he got a hell of a view of that thing. Oh, yeah.

• 2:30:18Speaker 02

  He flew all the way around it and he probably had gun cam rolling. Mm hmm. That, that's, that's right. They buried that picture, vanished the witnesses. Those guys wanted to come forward, they were at the local newspaper, they were, they were getting their story out with all those prints.

• 2:30:38Speaker 02

  Really good story. And that's another Men in Black story. I'm like, oh my God, how many times I gotta hear this?

• 2:30:43AJ Gentile?

  It's why it's so hard to even reach out to you because it could be the last email you ever send.

• 2:30:50Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I, yeah, I, you know, I'm being watched. There's no question about that.

• 2:30:55AJ Gentile?

  For sure you are.

• 2:30:56Speaker 02

  No question. Funny, because I was at, this is really funny. I was at the premiere for Age of Disclosure. And Leslie was hang, Leslie Kane, she was hanging out with a bunch of dudes in suits. This is typical looking, you know, I think they said they're from the agency. I'm pretty sure that's what they said. But definitely like, you know. And I was like, hey, nice to meet you. Hello, blah, blah, blah. You know, we're talking. I'm like, whatever. I'll talk to anybody, you know, people are people.

• 2:31:25Speaker 02

  I'm not hiding anything. They know what I'm up to. So I'm talking to the guy and was chatting it up. And I was like, yeah, because I, I did this film on this UFO crash in Brazil. They're all, we know exactly who you are.

• 2:31:35AJ Gentile?

  Sure they did.

• 2:31:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. I was like, oh my God. It was a little creepy, but it, but it was funny too, you know? And when I did the event at the National Press Club, just a couple of days ago, whatever week I can't, I've been to Brazil and all over the damn place. Not that long ago. This is the 20th of January. What are we, 20, whatever. Okay. So I see three dudes in suits come in and I knew two of them. Cause yeah, because I've been in touch with some of the people within the task force, you know, I went into a SCIF with John Kloski and people from the Air Force Office of Special Investigation.

• 2:32:10AJ Gentile?

  They let you into a SCIF?

• 2:32:11Speaker 02

  Took me into a SCIF, yes.

• 2:32:13AJ Gentile?

  What did you see in there?

• 2:32:15Speaker 02

  We'll talk about that in a second.

• 2:32:16AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 2:32:16Speaker 02

  These guys showed up at the event and I saw them come in and I was like, hey, and they're like, they just kind of looked at me and kept going. So about like 15 minutes later, things are getting going. Everyone's settling down and getting ready to present. And I was with my sister Kelly and I was like, hey, Kelly, get a picture of me with these, you know? So I walked up and then he was like, mm mm.

• 2:32:35AJ Gentile?

  No, no.

• 2:32:36Speaker 02

  No, don't, no, no, no photo dude. Not now. Like, no, but we're here, you know? And yeah, we went back, got started. But the, the other thing was I was invited. Um, I probably won't reveal who, who made the arrangements because I don't, I don't know if that's okay or not, but I was invited into a SCIF. Which is super weird because me, like they did a 20, 48 hour background check and then all the security and um I was, I was flying back to Vermont from Washington DC and I checked out of my hotel when I was, when I had the appointment and I went, uh, I went into, it was not far from the Pentagon. I went into this building, met in a parking lot and walked

• 2:33:21Speaker 02

  through this building, went to, had to go through security, checked all my stuff. Oh my God. And I go through and then, uh, and then there were these glass tubes. I think I left, did I leave my bags there? I probably did. There were these glass tube things. One side opened and you stepped in it, that closed, another side opened. It was just like seen out of a movie or something. And then.

• 2:33:45Speaker 05

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• 2:34:12Speaker 02

  Went down these corridors and we got to an area where he goes, all right, now you need to get rid of all your electronics. I need to put them in this locker. I said, can I use the bathroom real quick? Cause I wanted to take a picture of the pass, which I did. You did? Yeah, I took a picture of the pass I got. Where could we see that? I'll show it to you. Okay. I'll share it with you. You can show it on the thing. Okay, yeah. It says, uh, uh. It says do not take photos. Required. Just like that. I'll show you. Okay. I took it in the bathroom. They're probably gonna find out about that. Whatever. Sorry. Last gift for you. Had to do it. I'll, I'll send it to you for sure. So, so then, uh, take all my, you know, everything I had electronics, gone. Then just vault looking door, just exactly

• 2:34:55Speaker 02

  the door you'd expect, right? Opens it up, big thick thing, go inside.

• 2:35:03Speaker 02

  And it was, it was a big room, like it was big, like cubicles and all kinds of hallways and shit. He's like, yeah, this entire area is a skiff. It's all part of the task force. The head of the UAP task force, John Kloskowski. So we walked down this hallway. What building are you in? Where are you? Shit, man, I'm not far from the Pentagon. Yeah, not far from the Pentagon. I thought it was actually at the Pentagon. It was just, just really, really close. And um, take me down the hallway. I can't give you this guy's name. I would gladly. I can only give you something he, he wouldn't appreciate it. Go down this hallway and there's an open door on my left and a closed door on my right. And he's like, I'll, I'll be right back. And he leaves me there. I'm standing there and I see a table, eh, maybe about the size of this. I think it was more oval shaped.

• 2:35:47Speaker 02

  Or maybe it was round. Can't remember, but I was like, probably a couple of girls and a couple of guys. And they're all in suits and they're talking and I'm tuning, I'm tuning in. Cause I'm like, well, I might as well. You know, the brain has an incredible capacity to like filter out anything else and just really hone in on. I could see you sidling over. Yeah. And so I'm listening to the conversation. Like I'll give you an example. Like if you ever take a, like a tape recorder to a restaurant dinner, it's not recording what you heard. It's recording all, cause it doesn't filter it out, right? But I was able, you know, we can do that. We can filter out surround noise and really focus on what we want to hear. I'm like tuning into these guys. I'm like, oh, what are they, you know, what are they on about? And then one of them abruptly gets up,

• 2:36:29Speaker 02

  comes over to the door and closes the door. You know, and I was like, shit. So then, uh, one guy who met me, uh, outside suits, he comes, opens up the door. And then John Kloskowski comes in and they wanted to show me this footage that they were going to possibly release. I said, don't release that. It's ridiculous. It's not going to gain you any credibility. You guys cannot do that. And then we talked about, I talked about, you know, Rua, I talked about Virginia, I talked about Socorro, I talked about, I was just like, you know, and this and this, and you guys know that, you know, ultimately what we're dealing with is a certain percentage of these things is non-human intelligence and what's the plan to tell the public?

• 2:37:15Speaker 02

  You know, we're not going anywhere. This, this story's not going away. What's the plan? And John Kloskowski, the head of Arrow, right now, goes, James?

• 2:37:27Speaker 02

  I can't part my hair without approval from the DOD. And, and you can quote me on that. So basically what he was saying is his hands are tied. And it doesn't matter what he, what he, what he ultimately finds or uncovers or learns, right? I'm convinced that, you know, they clearly found the, the legacy. God, I could tell you another story too. Legacy UAP crash retrieval program.

• 2:37:59Speaker 02

  Now you've got to tell the other story. Yeah, well, I just, you know. Well, what is the plan, do you think, before we get into that?

• 2:38:07Speaker 02

  I think there are some people that want it out and some people that don't want it out. And the people that are in possession of the goods don't want it out for the most part.

• 2:38:17Speaker 02

  But I really think it's important that, you know, the people in the UFO community, I mean, we don't need the government against us. Everybody's bickering among each other, which is absurd. We should focus on a common goal. But I'm really like pivoting to the point where, like, I want to say to people, look, you don't have to believe Grash or Lou or Chris or whoever.

• 2:38:37Speaker 02

  How about, you know, we call their bluff and we create, we help create, we help support Congress. Congress really needs to hear from you. Like they've made that abundantly clear. We need to know that our constituents and other people that we have your support in putting our necks out. But, but to, to figure out a way how we can get immunity to the witnesses that want to come forward and how we can provide additional witness whistleblower protections. That's very, very important because there are threats. People feel, even if it's just their security clearance, if they lose that, they have no job, right? So the threats have taken away their security clearance. Some people are concerned about their personal safety. There's, there's those issues. And they lose their job.

• 2:39:19Speaker 02

  It's like, you know, they lose, they can't support, they can't feed their family, you know? So it's like, now they're talking about a fund that. That we could put in place. So if they do lose everything, they get financial compensation. Because and people are like, oh, well, that's not really fair. They're getting taxpayer dollars. It's like, well, if what they're saying is true, that's the biggest story ever. Everybody should have a right. I don't think, you know, that people would have that big of a problem with getting some compensation to some of these potentially the most significant witnesses in the history of mankind. So anyway, these are all initiatives and things that that I feel strongly that we should, we should support.

• 2:40:01AJ Gentile?

  And put pressure on.

• 2:40:02Speaker 02

  Whether you believe it or not, like you might say like, wow, what's this guy have to gain by coming forward? What does David Grush have to gain? Quite honestly, I don't really see anything. He had to retire early. He didn't get any of his pension.

• 2:40:12AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:40:13Speaker 02

  You know, like, you know, he got all these threats and I mean, I don't know. I mean, call his bluff.

• 2:40:19AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, I think the Pentagon walked back a lot of even what he said.

• 2:40:21Speaker 02

  Of course they did. That's what they do.

• 2:40:24AJ Gentile?

  I don't, do you feel like it's a, is it a slow, are they preparing us for an actual disclosure? Is this a limited hangout or is it like, well, we'll give them a little here, we'll give them a little?

• 2:40:41Speaker 02

  I think it has to come, I think it has to come from we, the people. We have to start really continuing the pressure. It's one of the reasons why, you know, like,

• 2:40:49Speaker 02

  I had to move mountains and walk on water. I told you earlier to do that event at the National Press Club. And I'd love to see the government do something like that. They're doing exactly the opposite. But it was really hard. Like we hired a PR firm. We had a former White House Press Secretary, Assistant Press Secretary, all sending out the press conference, all the various news outlets. And, you know, we had really good attendance. We had a handful, very small hand, well, we had a lot of cameras. There were influencers there, but only a handful of news outlets. I mean, we did the best we could. You know, like I said at the time, I was like, it was a very solid base hit, but.

• 2:41:28Speaker 02

  You know, we had a story that was going to go out in a very big news organization. It would have been really historic and, uh, and that got squashed at the last second to the point where we couldn't pivot to somebody else and there's about closed door hearings. But there is a, again, I'll remind your audience, there's, there's a great story out in the debrief by Liza Kane and Ralph Blumenthal. Go check it out. It's free. It's online. Got photographs, details of the meetings. Um, yeah, it's, it's, it's good. Yeah.

• 2:41:56AJ Gentile?

  Well, I think you're doing the right thing by doing the podcast circuit because these shows, we have a larger audience than the major news outlets.

• 2:42:03Speaker 02

  It's amazing.

• 2:42:04AJ Gentile?

  You're speaking directly to people now.

• 2:42:06Speaker 02

  You know, it's like, I started thinking about it and I was like, we don't even really need the mainstream media anymore. We're just going straight to the people.

• 2:42:14AJ Gentile?

  James, this is the mainstream media.

• 2:42:16Speaker 02

  I know. It's crazy, right?

• 2:42:17AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:18Speaker 02

  It's, it's nuts. I was hanging out with this guy the other day and, um, he's like, yeah, man, I got 10 million followers. I was like, you have 10 million followers?

• 2:42:26AJ Gentile?

  I know. Eat your heart, eat your heart out, Shannon.

• 2:42:28Speaker 02

  Unbelievable. Yeah. Unbelievable. And then, um, then I was, you know, podcast coverage that's happening right now in Brazil, right now in Brazil, 22.8 million followers. Another one, 30 million followers. Like, that's a significant amount of people that you have outreach to, you know? Look at Rogan.

• 2:42:47AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:42:47Speaker 02

  You know, you guys.

• 2:42:48AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:42:49Speaker 02

  It's extremely impressive and that we're doing it organically. We're doing it grassroots. We're doing it, we the people, you know? That's what I was telling you earlier. I really appreciate, you know, I, I appreciate the support and I'm not asking anyone to categorically believe this happened, but, but hey, how about support for additional investigation? How about, wow, there's a lot of really compelling eyewitness testimony. Let's dig a little further.

• 2:43:13AJ Gentile?

  There is. You're a very important person. Um, I have two things I want to get to before we let you go, but.

• 2:43:18Speaker 02

  You got it.

• 2:43:19AJ Gentile?

  When you were talking about the skiff, you said, oh, I can tell you another story. Do you remember what that was?

• 2:43:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:43:26Speaker 02

  Well, yeah. Well, so how can I tell you without revealing this person's identity?

• 2:43:34AJ Gentile?

  Their position, what their role?

• 2:43:37Speaker 02

  No, if I do that, that'll, that'll give a dead giveaway. Um.

• 2:43:40AJ Gentile?

  Then just tell the story.

• 2:43:41Speaker 02

  Okay. Well.

• 2:43:45Speaker 02

  So when I investigated the Socorro, New Mexico case, I was, you know, I really, I do a deep dive. Like I, you know, you look at someone like Richard Dolan, or Stanton Friedman, or, you know, some of these really serious, you know, researchers and authors of very detailed books. And their historical perspective was like a walk in encyclopedia, and these guys are incredible. I am extremely familiar with a handful of cases that I personally have investigated, boots on the ground, in Africa, or China, or wherever the hell I am, South America. And I, and I stick my teeth into a case, minimum five years, sometimes

• 2:44:27Speaker 02

  10, sometimes 20, whatever. And I was investigating the Socorro case, and I got to know his wife, Mary, his daughter Diane, his son, Michael, his coworkers. It's all over a five year period. And every time I came to Socorro, and particularly to Mary Zamora's house, I'd see this beautiful white Ford pickup truck parked out in front, flat tires, hood, popped a jar, whole cabin filled with garbage, bullet hole through the cab, back, they had a beautiful truck, though. It was a step side, 1972, I think, 72, wooden bed, it

• 2:45:10Speaker 02

  was kind of rotted out, but nice. I mean, the body was in pretty good shape. It didn't have any really rust, because it was in a dry desert environment. And I kept looking at that truck, I'm like, damn, that thing is gorgeous. Needs work, but wow. Long story short, I bought the truck off Mary. Okay. And I've been slowly fixing it up, and it runs great. After five years, I had the engine rebuilt, but it's the same engine, 360, big block. Seventy-two what? Ford F-100. Okay. Ford F-100. And I got all the wood for the bed, and I was under that thing for like weeks with the sawzall, because I was working on it, you know, as much time as I had during the production of the phenomenon. And I was under the truck with the sawzall, cutting all the little nuts off, they were all frozen, and it was raining down, like,

• 2:45:55Speaker 02

  I should have had goggles on. And I put new wood in the bed with a buddy of mine, Mike Aiken. And it was funny because I ordered the kit and then I put it all. It was a huge undertaking. My God, that was difficult. We had to paint it with like marine based, you know, lacquer, lacquer, whatever. Anyway, and the metal strips in between the woods started rusting out within a week or two. And so I was like, what the hell, man? I just, oh, okay, it's a truck and it's outside, but I just did this. Like, come on. So I contacted the company and they're like, wow, you know, you didn't ask for the stainless. I was like, well, you guys didn't even give me an option. Like, how do I suppose to know? So anyway, so I'm slowly fixing the truck up. I

• 2:46:37Speaker 02

  had the original seat reupholstered. The guy was like, this was really challenging. I had to rebuild all the springs and get a new dashboard because you could poke your finger to the dashboard from the hot sun. Seriously, you just poke your finger right through. I did the headliner and the floor carpeting myself and I did a terrible job and didn't get that done. But for overall, and had the engine rebuilt, it's a beautiful truck. So I had an individual come that's investigated UFOs in an official capacity for the United States government from 2017 to 2020, whatever the hell. And

• 2:47:15Speaker 02

  we took my truck out to dinner because I don't know, for some reason I didn't have the other car. My partner Rebecca might have taken it. I was like, hey, I just got this truck. He's like, oh, I love old trucks, you know, and this is great. It was really cool because just like, this is a long as a Morris truck, you know, we're driving this old 72 truck out these country roads and we go out to a lovely dinner. We have some drinks and afterwards, you know, you kind of loosen up a little bit. We go back to drop this individual off at his hotel and

• 2:47:52Speaker 02

  get to the hotel. And it's dark. I don't have a cabin light. I don't have, it does work, but the doors are closed. It's dark. We parked over at the hotel and the door guy, the valet, the door guy comes out and he's like, hey, can I get you? I said, no, I was just dropping him off and, and he left. The engine's off, lights are out. It's pretty dark. A little bit of light coming from the hotel, but we were pretty far away. So it was like, almost like just silhouetted a little bit inside the cabin. It was dark.

• 2:48:24Speaker 02

  We had a whispered conversation. And it was like that moment when maybe you're on a date and you drop, you know, you, you, you drop the girl off with the guy, whatever. And there's an awkward moment where you're not sure, like, you know, where we should come, do I go, you know, you're inviting me in or whatever.

• 2:48:46AJ Gentile?

  Worst moment ever.

• 2:48:47Speaker 02

  You know, like that awkward little moment, you know, but it was kind of like that awkward moment. It's like, all right, well, are you getting out or do I, you know, you know, and just silhouettes, it was like a scene out of a movie. I'll never forget it so long as I live, just silhouettes in the truck, dark. And it was like, we found a legacy program.

• 2:49:07AJ Gentile?

  Ah.

• 2:49:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, we found it. And it was like, you know, and then some more details and I just sat there quietly.

• 2:49:17AJ Gentile?

  Can't tell us the details?

• 2:49:19Speaker 02

  No, I can't. I just can't.

• 2:49:23AJ Gentile?

  Why do we call that legacy program? Did that end?

• 2:49:25Speaker 02

  LAP legacy program, I guess, because it's been going on for such a long period of time, I guess.

• 2:49:29AJ Gentile?

  But is that the still ongoing program?

• 2:49:31Speaker 02

  I guess it would be. I'm assuming. Yeah, definitely. Uh huh. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Senator Rubio talks about, I mean, you know, you read between the lines. I mean, the latest cut of Moment of Contact, we have Senator Rubio on News Nation saying that, you know, extremely credible people firsthand, you know, claimed to be firsthand working on the stuff and the legacy program. Like, I mean, very like, wow, you know what I mean? It's happening. It's amazing how many people are not paying attention, you know, all the congressional heads. How many people even know?

• 2:50:05AJ Gentile?

  Very few.

• 2:50:06Speaker 02

  We've had four congressional hearings.

• 2:50:07AJ Gentile?

  No, very few.

• 2:50:08Speaker 02

  It's just so, it's so incredible to me, you know, that more people aren't like, I know that life's tough and, you know, we're working, paying bill, you know, I get all that. But this, I can't believe more news outlets aren't focusing on this. Like, you got, you know, president, you know, sexual, excuse me, peccadilloes, like, you know, they put so many resources into it, like, you know, whether it's Trump or Clinton or whatever, like, they're just fixated and like millions of dollars, like, you know what I mean?

• 2:50:39AJ Gentile?

  I think it's intentional.

• 2:50:40Speaker 02

  Then you got like, What could be the biggest story in history and no, and they're not doing anything.

• 2:50:45AJ Gentile?

  I think they want us fighting about politics because that we don't see what's going over here.

• 2:50:49Speaker 02

  60 Minutes finally does a little thing on UFOs. I'm told it was the most popular thing they've ever done. I'm pretty sure if it's not number one, it was number two. Most popular thing they've ever done, okay? New York Times, 2017, one of the most popular stories they've ever gone to print.

• 2:51:06AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:51:07Speaker 02

  Do you not recognize that New York Times and CBS? Hello? Like, what are you guys doing? Do some digging. Is it take people like me to do your guys' work? Like, really? Could you imagine if we had the full force of like, you know, media to take this seriously and really stick their teeth into it and all the financial, like, come on, man. I'm, I used to be not convinced about the connection between mainstream and like, DOD intelligence, the influence there, but now I'm like.

• 2:51:37AJ Gentile?

  That's all, it's all wrapped up.

• 2:51:39Speaker 02

  It's gotta be connected.

• 2:51:40AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 2:51:41Speaker 02

  It just kinda has to be. I mean, I don't wanna, you know. It just, it feels that way.

• 2:51:46AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, it has to come from out here.

• 2:51:48Speaker 02

  It feels that way and it might be just as simple as like, hey, you know, all those connections and stories that we're feeding you? Yeah, you just go ahead and leave this to the side. Otherwise, we're done. You know, and someone needs to grow a pair and just start and do it. Just do it. The support would be incredible.

• 2:52:02AJ Gentile?

  Yep, but they'd have to do it really publicly because these people do disappear.

• 2:52:06Speaker 02

  They would be doing, well, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I know. Mm-hmm. That's kinda, that's kinda freaky too.

• 2:52:14AJ Gentile?

  Tell me about, um, about Gary McKinnon, his story. What you think about him?

• 2:52:19Speaker 02

  I love that guy.

• 2:52:20AJ Gentile?

  He's amazing.

• 2:52:22Speaker 02

  He was great. I finally got to meet him. And he's in the program as well. Did you see the program?

• 2:52:27AJ Gentile?

  I did.

• 2:52:27Speaker 02

  Well, you could also watch that for free on YouTube movies.

• 2:52:30AJ Gentile?

  Stop saying for free. Go.

• 2:52:31Speaker 02

  Well, no, no, I'm just saying because it's a great platform. They've got 300 million, whatever followers, and it's a great platform.

• 2:52:37AJ Gentile?

  Your work needs support.

• 2:52:38Speaker 02

  Anyway, so.

• 2:52:41Speaker 02

  Somebody got in touch, somebody, somebody I knew, knew him. I wish I could remember who that person was.

• 2:52:47AJ Gentile?

  Well, give us a quick recap on what Gary did with NASA.

• 2:52:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, but one second, because it catapulted in the mainstream in the late 90s, early 2000s, I think it was. Oh, my God, it was everywhere. He was in the news, the presidents were talking about him.

• 2:52:59AJ Gentile?

  Prime Minister.

• 2:53:00Speaker 02

  Prime Minister was talking about him. And always, but he was way too inundated at the time. They were making songs about him. He was working with all these famous art news of musicians. It was incredible. Free Gary McKinnon. So, somebody reached out to him. He hears my name, and he's like, gets right in touch with me, and he's like, oh, my God, my hero. I'm like, dude, me? What? You? Like, you know, we were both super stoked, you know? So Gary McKinnon, based on probably the, one of the claims from a NASA, alleged, sort of a NASA employee, I'm trying to remember the woman's name, but he, she had testified

• 2:53:42Speaker 02

  at 2001 press conference that Dr. Stephen Greer had done. And she basically gave a specific location where photographs are, you know, manipulated from NASA that show, you know, UFOs.

• 2:53:53AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:53:54Speaker 02

  Excuse me. So, he was like, you know, I'm gonna go find out. So he started hacking.

• 2:54:02AJ Gentile?

  Now, hold on. He didn't, he just found computers that would actually, he didn't, like illegally. I'm trying to, I'm trying to help Gary out. I'm trying to help Gary out.

• 2:54:13Speaker 02

  He'll admit this now.

• 2:54:14AJ Gentile?

  Okay, well.

• 2:54:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's water under the bridge.

• 2:54:16AJ Gentile?

  Is he in the clear?

• 2:54:17Speaker 02

  He's in the clear now.

• 2:54:18AJ Gentile?

  Because Obama wanted his neck.

• 2:54:19Speaker 02

  I know. They couldn't have, they could not have. Okay, well, okay, let me get into this real quick, and I'll just go into it. It's one of the biggest computer hacks, allegedly, in history. And he said that, I think it went on for a while. I don't know if it was a year or two years. I can't remember. It was a while. And he goes, you know, I was going through, I would go, and he talks about it like it's like, oh, yeah, it's like, you know, walk in the park. He was like, of course, you just, you know, I was like, I was like, yeah, maybe easy to you. Somebody like me, I don't know what that, you're talking gibberish. I don't know. But he'd go through these servers in the States from different, you know, maybe a library or maybe whatever, right? And he would, so that would be the signals, and that would, it would end there. So, and then he'd go from there, and he'd go into like NASA, NSA, CIA, whatever.

• 2:55:05Speaker 02

  And he goes, he started getting lazy and just going around and going straight. And he got into something that's Johnson Space Center, I think it was kind of where the woman said that these things, these things would be. And he was on dial up and he hit pay dirt. And he said, there was this cylindrical, interestingly enough. Mm hmm. Cigar shaped craft. Mm hmm. Yeah. Cylindrical shaped craft in like outer space. And he goes, it could have been the earth. I think it was the earth, but I couldn't say for sure. It was clouds, blah, blah, blah. But it was coming down, coming down. And he was just sitting there with bated breath going, oh my God, this is like, oh, this is my eureka.

• 2:55:50Speaker 02

  We called it his eureka moment. And he goes, oh my gosh. And it's just like this cylindrical shaped thing. He goes, it clearly had no, he's like, it was other world, you know? And then I think it was going down, going down, going down, going down. And then the cursor moved. Yes. And the screen went blank. Yes. It was my eureka moment and also my shit. What have I just done? Like, I don't know how long it was that he woke up to men in suits over his bed in London. Over his bed? Over his bed. I didn't know that. Wow. Yeah. And then it was like. And they took him into custody, didn't they? Oh, yeah. Are you kidding me?

• 2:56:34Speaker 02

  They wanted to extradite him and lock him up for 70 years. Yeah. 60 or 70 years. Now I think, and this is speculation and Gary might agree with this, I don't know. I think that ultimately, because the British and the Americans go along generally together. I think that ultimately the Americans, they wanted to extradite him publicly.

• 2:57:02Speaker 02

  But had that happened, he would have had due process. It would have been a big spectacle. And the deep, the re, there would have been a revelation of everything that he saw. He has to tell. Very public court case. Yeah, he has to tell his side. So, this is just again, this is me speculating here. Sure, sure. That, you know, the May the Americans said to the British, hey, look, we're gonna push for his extradition. You're gonna deny it because we don't want a big public hearing because that's what it'll be. He was everywhere in the news. That's interesting. Anybody just Google Gary McKeon. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so they ultimately denied him, but he said he was ready to take his own life. He did. Yes, he did. He's like, I'm not gonna go rot in a prison for the next 65 years. But he was already, I think he had, he had the, he had, he knew how he was gonna do it.

• 2:57:47Speaker 02

  He's like, yeah, I was gonna take my own life. I'm not gonna go sit in prison for 60 years. Hell, no. Did he talk to you about the, the list that he found about the off space fleet? Yeah, he talked about, uh, they were non-terrestrial officers. Yes. And it's funny, actually, because, and again, speculation here. I started thinking about the alleged encounter at Nellis Test Range in the night, in 1994 of this non-terrestrial officer. He's in officer gear. He's got, he's clearly not of this planet, so-called. Um, it did make me think of him. It did make me think of him. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

• 2:58:28Speaker 02

  Because, I don't know. I was like, is that what they're referring to? Non-terrestrial officers? Or are they talking about astronauts? Well, they had names. Yeah, you did. Yeah, I don't think he remembered those names, but yeah, uh, yeah, I don't, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if he remembered all that, but anyway, it's a fascinating, fascinating case. Fascinating case. And it goes along with like, all the people that have been talking about this cadre of high resolution, you know, some case 4K, super clear photos of UFOs of craft that are just, God knows, we have sensors everywhere, right? All these drones with high-res cameras and everything like that.

• 2:59:12Speaker 02

  It's like, yeah, of course they would be there. We got, yeah, sure, we got phones and cell phones. And pictures show up all the time on the internet, but how do you know what's real and what's fake? And who's got the time to go through it all? Do you know what I mean? Yep. But the military. They've got the sensors, they've got the cameras. I mean, if anyone's gonna have that kind of data, it would be the military. And everyone says they have it, and Gary McKinnon found some of it.

• 2:59:37AJ Gentile?

  He sure did.

• 2:59:38Speaker 02

  He got to see it.

• 2:59:40AJ Gentile?

  What was your, um, what was your, I guess it's now infamous, interaction with Buzz Aldrin?

• 2:59:45Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 2:59:49AJ Gentile?

  You don't have to fold your arms. You can relax. This is a place for sharing.

• 2:59:56Speaker 02

  I'll give you the short version.

• 3:00:00AJ Gentile?

  He didn't punch you in the mouth.

• 3:00:02Speaker 02

  I know, right? Put your hand in the Bible. Okay, so

• 3:00:09Speaker 02

  I worked on a movie set called The Legend of Obi Taggert, and it would have been

• 3:00:15Speaker 02

  probably mid 90s, I guess. Yeah. I was working on my first UFO doc. I don't think I was working on, yeah. And Mickey Rooney, his wife Jan Rooney, and there was another actor, is it Ned Beatty, that got, that was in, "Now you gonna do some praying, boy, and you better pray good." You remember that one?

• 3:00:38AJ Gentile?

  Was that Deliverance?

• 3:00:39Speaker 02

  Deliverance, yes, sir. Okay, he was there. And I'd just seen Deliverance like a year or two earlier. So I couldn't help but think about, I was like, dude, I just saw you.

• 3:00:48AJ Gentile?

  You didn't squeal like a pig, though.

• 3:00:50Speaker 02

  Oh, God. God, that scene was like brutal. Oh, my Lord, no!

• 3:00:55AJ Gentile?

  Please don't Google that.

• 3:00:56Speaker 02

  I remember the first, I had no idea what it was, I watched it in England.

• 3:01:00AJ Gentile?

  Oh.

• 3:01:01Speaker 02

  In the 90s.

• 3:01:02AJ Gentile?

  Ah.

• 3:01:03Speaker 02

  And they're like, "We're gonna watch Deliverance." I was like, "Deliverance? Remember this?" Like, and it got to that scene, and I was like, "Oh, Jesus. No, God, please." Anyway.

• 3:01:14Speaker 02

  So I was an extra on this movie. I was a prison guard for Mickey, for Jan, um, and one of the Rooney. And, uh, as usual, they're like, "Oh, so, you know, what else are you up to?" And I was like, "Oh, I'm doing a UFO documentary." And they were like, "Oh." I was, I was kind of expecting the typical, you know, laughter and ridicule, whatever. But he's like, "Oh, you know, my wife and I are really good friends with Buzz Aldrin."

• 3:01:44Speaker 02

  And um, yeah, he told us some pretty crazy stuff like he's seen some stuff. I was like, really? Oh, yeah. You know what? We'll, we'll get you in touch with him. So that happened. And then a friend of mine in Kentfield, California was, he was bartending an event. It was an art sale. It's an art dealer sale, whatever. And there was a woman named Fayanne Potter there, and she was Buzz Aldrin's sister. So between her and I met her at a place called The West Bank, The Left Bank, sorry, La Rive Gauche. And, um, and then, uh, Jan Rooney, and Jan Rooney's dad was a general in the, I think it was the Air Force, and he talked about Roswell a little bit to her.

• 3:02:27Speaker 02

  But in any case, between those two, they set up an interview with me with, with Buzz Aldrin. And, uh, he, he ultimately agrees to give me an interview about his UFO sighting. And he goes, but I'm going to be on book tour. I'm going to be in the south of France. So I borrowed some money, got a little crew. He was like, this is where I'll be. Come down and I'll meet with you. So I arrived there in Monte Carlo. And Monte Carlo is probably the most expensive place on earth. And I had a small budget and I was chewing up that money every day. And I kept, you know,

• 3:03:10Speaker 02

  getting in touch with them. It's like, you know, traveled all this way, blah, blah, blah. Oh, yeah. You know, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow. So I finally got to like, I don't know, whatever, fourth day. And I said, you know, Mr. Aldrin, I can't be too bushy. He goes, you know, I said, Mr. Aldrin, with all due respect, I, you know, I traveled all this way. You, you did agree to an interview and, and, um, you know, I can't stay here forever. This place is really expensive. I, I traveled all the way down here. He goes, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. Meet me in my hotel lobby tomorrow morning, whatever, nine o'clock, whatever time it was. No cameras rolling. I said, no, no, no, we won't have any cameras rolling. So the next morning, we got there a little early. We're

• 3:03:51Speaker 02

  having like a croissant in this really fancy hotel. And I was like a $10 cup of coffee back then. And, um, the concierge comes up to me. He says, Mr. Fox, I say, do you have a telephone call? I was like, go over there. And it's Buzz. And he's like, I can't do it.

• 3:04:07Speaker 02

  He goes, uh, Paul Allen has just invested in SETI. Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. Very conservative. Those guys are looking for shit all the way across that, you know? And he goes, I can't jeopardize. I'm trying to develop a rocket to get citizens into space, yada, yada, yada. I'm working with Congress. I can't do it. And how, how's my story going to change anything anyway? Oh, come on. And I said, well, with all due respect, sir, it takes people of your stature to come forward and help elevate this topic, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Edgar Mitchell did it? Yeah, but Edgar Mitchell wasn't a firsthand witness, but he met with firsthand witnesses and he knew about Roswell. But there's another reason why I believe Roswell. But, you know, he didn't deny any, like, you know, he didn't say, hey, I had a sight on the way to the moon.

• 3:04:50Speaker 02

  The sister told me that he had chased a disc. I think it was in the 50s. Yeah, probably late 50s, chased a disc, rattled. Apparently sister said he was rattled. He chased the thing up to as high as the plane would go, couldn't catch it. And then they saw something a little less, a little more ambiguous, or something that was something that followed them to the moon, something like that. And, uh, but I never got a story. And then I went on Larry King with him in like 2007, maybe 2006, 2007. And it was like, I don't know, eight years later, something like that. Couldn't tell you exactly, but I had to look at my records. And, uh, and I went on with, uh, Fife Symington, the former governor of Arizona.

• 3:05:33Speaker 02

  And to my unbelievable shock, I went into the green room and there he was getting his makeup put on. And I was like, holy shit. I'm about to go live with Buzz Aldrin and the former governor. So I take a picture of him. Probably did it with my phone. Yeah. 2007. Yeah, sure. I did it with my phone. I have the picture. I had it somewhere on my computer. And, um, she's like, you're sir, you're not supposed to take pictures in the green room. I was like, oh, I'm sorry. Kept it. Yeah. And he's like, looks at me. He's like, you know, he's kind of like, and, um, and then he goes on and I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna really get this guy. Cause I was still pissed about what happened. And Fife was like, you know, this guy's, you know, he's very respected and land on the moon with Neil Armstrong, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

• 3:06:18Speaker 02

  Really be careful. Yeah, I know. Allegedly. I know people. I know. There's that whole debate. My, my really good, uh, friend, one of my best friends and he's my neighbor. We're so tight.

• 3:06:30Speaker 02

  And he's like, we didn't go to the moon and we would always have these debates and we loved each other. We didn't care. It was like, you know, cool, you know, but uh, he just sat there and lied.

• 3:06:39AJ Gentile?

  He just sat there and lied.

• 3:06:40Speaker 02

  Just sat there and lied. And I just sat there and just watched him lie.

• 3:06:44AJ Gentile?

  You couldn't say?

• 3:06:46Speaker 02

  It's poked a little bit. There's a guy, Darcy Weir, who did a film that covered it. He found that amazingly enough, he found the clips of me on, on the show and

• 3:06:55AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, I know, Darcy.

• 3:06:56Speaker 02

  Interviewed me about it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But um, yeah, that's, that's my story.

• 3:07:01AJ Gentile?

  Oh, what a shame.

• 3:07:02Speaker 02

  I know. Can you imagine? That was in the nineties.

• 3:07:05AJ Gentile?

  Yep. Any other astronauts?

• 3:07:08Speaker 02

  Edgar Mitchell.

• 3:07:10AJ Gentile?

  Any first, firsthand witnesses?

• 3:07:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was a, was that Mercury astronaut guy that took a picture of a UFO that was pretty incredible.

• 3:07:19Speaker 06

  Thank you for calling 1-800-GOT-JUNK. We make room for possibilities.

• 3:07:24AJ Gentile?

  We've loaded the moving van and we're leaving a ton of stuff at our old address. Can you make it disappear?

• 3:07:29Speaker 06

  All you have to do is point.

• 3:07:30AJ Gentile?

  Can you come right now?

• 3:07:31Speaker 06

  We're on our way.

• 3:07:33AJ Gentile?

  We make space for hope.

• 3:07:34Speaker 06

  We make space for dreams.

• 3:07:36AJ Gentile?

  We make space for what matters.

• 3:07:38Speaker 06

  We are 1-800-GOT-JUNK.

• 3:07:40AJ Gentile?

  Let us make room for your possibilities.

• 3:07:42Speaker 06

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• 3:07:44AJ Gentile?

  And your future brighter.

• 3:07:45Speaker 06

  Call 1-800-GOT-JUNK. Or visit 1-800-GOT-JUNK.COM.

• 3:07:50Speaker 02

  Shit. Trying to remember his name. Sorry, I'm exhausted. I've been, I've just barely been getting sleep lately. I mean, I've always been, I had the National Press Club event and I flew to Brazil and I was sick in Brazil and I was all that stuff. Then I flew back here like boom, boom, boom. So I'm sorry if I seem a little tired.

• 3:08:05AJ Gentile?

  No, no, you're good.

• 3:08:07Speaker 02

  But uh, yeah, there is a guy, uh, it was in the sixties. It was part of the Mercury program and he took a pretty damn good picture of a UFO. And I think it might've been some filmed footage too. Dosh Garnett?

• 3:08:21AJ Gentile?

  That's okay. We'll find him.

• 3:08:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, you always find it. It was, it was Mercury mission. And I know his name, but I just, I'm at a loss right now. Anyway.

• 3:08:29AJ Gentile?

  Well, then the last, the last thing, we'll let you go.

• 3:08:31Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 3:08:31AJ Gentile?

  Are there any, are there any UFO photos, stories or anything that's out there that, that people tend to believe that you don't? That you say, that's not it?

• 3:08:40Speaker 02

  Yes. Um.

• 3:08:43Speaker 02

  Billy, uh, he's, he's, uh, he's in Swit- Switzerland. And I'm always told Billy Myers.

• 3:08:53AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 3:08:53Speaker 02

  And, you know, some people can criticize me. It's fair to have a, you know, look, we can have opinions and we can agree to disagree.

• 3:08:59AJ Gentile?

  That's all I'm asking, yeah.

• 3:08:59Speaker 02

  I'm not trying to be disrespectful to anybody.

• 3:09:02AJ Gentile?

  Everyone can make up their own mind.

• 3:09:03Speaker 02

  My personal opinion, based on what I've seen, I haven't met the guy, so I have to add that to the story, but my personal opinion is that, um, that he has definitely presented some fake photographs. Now, some people say, well, yeah, because some of the earlier stuff was legit, but then it dried up and so he wanted to keep getting attention, so he faked some stuff. And I was like, well, if you faked one, you faked two, ah, it's kind of tough for me to go, well, was he telling the tru- yeah, I don't know. Uh, but, but I'm also told that there's a certain force field, because a lot of people go, why is it always blurry? It's a little fuzzy. There's a, there's a, a field around that that kind of affects the environment.

• 3:09:46AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 3:09:46Speaker 02

  Gravity field or something. I'm not a physicist, I don't tell you, but in Age of Disclosure, uh, Hal Puthoff has talks about the nature of propulsion and how the bends, warps, folds the space around it.

• 3:10:01AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 3:10:01Speaker 02

  And it causes it to be a little blurry. And I was told that a long time ago, that if there's a crystal clear, like, defined edge around the craft, generally that's considered to be fake.

• 3:10:13AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:10:14Speaker 02

  Excuse me, yeah.

• 3:10:15AJ Gentile?

  Cause they're warping space-time or there's-

• 3:10:17Speaker 02

  It's always a little fuzzy.

• 3:10:18AJ Gentile?

  Cause you see a lot of discs where the surface is almost moving.

• 3:10:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:10:22AJ Gentile?

  Those, I tend to believe.

• 3:10:23Speaker 02

  You'll see that too. But no, but even like, you know, um, 1950 McMinnville, Oregon, uh, the Trent's, you look at that photograph and boy, that's pretty damn good. But people that have the, some of the original prints and zoomed in on it, you could see it's blurred around the edge, so it's pretty authentic. And you got two witnesses, broad daylight, multiple angles, points of reference, very good photograph.

• 3:10:45AJ Gentile?

  Is there anything that we didn't cover today about Virginia or any of your other work you want to get out there?

• 3:10:50Speaker 02

  If you support my work, please go watch Moment of Contact, New Revelations of Alien Encounters. I worked so hard to get that out there in timely fashion. Included a very quick snapshot of some of the relevant aspects that's been happening in transparency, pushing for transparency in the US government. The first 20 minutes is all new and then some of the most compelling firsthand eyewitness testimony in the history of phenomenon, if you believe it. I tend to, I believe Dr. Italo because I can't find a motive. He's not selling a doc, he's not selling a book, he's not asking for money for his story. He's still, still the lead neurosurgeon at the hospital, still to this day. And I'm sitting there going, I've

• 3:11:33Speaker 02

  met his wife, I've met his kids, I've met his coworkers, I went, had a whole tour at the hospital, all the people he's been working with. So he'd have to be lying to everybody.

• 3:11:42AJ Gentile?

  There's no way. He was too, he was so affected by it.

• 3:11:45Speaker 02

  See why he would do that. And he goes, I'll take a public lie detector test tomorrow with my hand on a bible. Like, what does this guy have to win by, why would he do that in his twilight years? I just, you know, look him in the eyes, man. The tears holding on to me. He's like, I'm telling the truth, man. I'm coming forward because younger generations need to know this is real.

• 3:12:08AJ Gentile?

  Moment of Contact, definitely want to watch that. I bought it on Apple TV. I'm assuming it's everywhere.

• 3:12:14Speaker 02

  It's on Amazon, Apple, Google, Fandango. Yeah. I think I gave your crew a link that hopefully will be in the video.

• 3:12:20AJ Gentile?

  We'll put all of it online.

• 3:12:21Speaker 02

  It's a genius link and you just click on it and it'll take you to various platforms. So I appreciate you having me on. I really do.

• 3:12:26AJ Gentile?

  Sure. We've got your prototype email anywhere else that we can find you?

• 3:12:28Speaker 02

  Oh, yes. Good idea. Thank you. Find me on X, formerly known as Twitter. It's James, it's at James, C as in Charlie Fox, at James C. Fox. And you can, I post all, everything relevant that I do there. I do have an Instagram account, but I got a couple 20-year-olds running now. So I don't take it as often as I should have all, how do I do this?

• 3:12:52AJ Gentile?

  I'm in the same boat. James, thanks so much for coming in. This has been a joy.

• 3:12:56Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it.

• 3:12:57AJ Gentile?

  All right. Bye, everybody. So that's James Fox's investigation into Virginia. Now here's what we can verify. The incident that happened in January 1996. Multiple witnesses, civilian and military, reported seeing both a craft in distress and strange creatures in and around the town. Military police officer named Marco Cherez died about three weeks after allegedly capturing one of the beings. His official cause of death was listed as sepsis and pneumonia from what doctors called benign bacteria, though they never identified its source, and that's documented in the autopsy. The big claim here is Dr. Itole Ventorelli's testimony. He's a practicing neurosurgeon at regional hospital in Virginia.

• 3:13:39AJ Gentile?

  Forty-five years in medicine, still performing brain surgery. He says he had three to four minutes of face-to-face contact with a live, non-human entity in the ICU on January 20th, 1996. He's not selling a book, he's not asking for money. His colleagues, other doctors who've known him for decades, all went on camera and vouched for him. Now what I keep coming back to is what James said about motive. If Dr. Itole is lying, he's lying to his wife, his children, his colleagues, his entire community. Why would he do that? There's no upside. And he's offered to take a public lie detector test with his hand on a Bible, something he doesn't take lightly. This is either the most significant testimony in the history of UFO research,

• 3:14:22AJ Gentile?

  or it's an elaborate hoax with no motive. But I think it deserves serious investigation either way. You can watch James's documentary, "Moment of Contact: New Revelations", it just dropped. And his National Press Club event from January 2026 is on YouTube for free. And if you have any information about the Virginia case, James has set up a secure Proton mail for tips. Until next time, be safe, be kind, and know that you are appreciated.

• 3:15:03Speaker 07

  I played for Libya scenario fifty-one. A secret code inside the Bible said I was. I love my UFOs and paranormal fun as well as music. Songs singing like I should. But then another piece of theory theory becomes the truth, my friends. And it never ends, no it never ends.

• 3:15:41Speaker 07

  I fear the crackhead and got stuck inside Mel's home with MKUltra. I'm being only too aware. Did Stanley Kubrick fake the moon landing alone on a film set? Were the shadows people there? The Rockwell aliens just fought the smiling man, I'm told. And his name was Cold. And I can't believe I'm dancing with the fish. Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ. And the weapons on my feet all through the night. All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth.

• 3:16:24Speaker 07

  So the weapons on my feet all through the night.

• 3:16:46Speaker 07

  The Mothman sightings and the solar storm still come. To a god that the secret city underground. Mysterious number stations, planet circle two, project star gate. And what the dark watchers found. In a simulation, don't you worry though. The black night satellite it told me so. I can't believe I'm dancing with the fish.

• 3:17:18Speaker 07

  Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ. Two and one thousand feet up through the night.

• 3:17:27Speaker 07

  All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth. So one thousand feet up through the night. Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ. Two and one thousand feet up through the night. All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth. So one thousand feet up through the night.

• 3:18:06Speaker 07

  Girlie loves to dance. Girlie loves to dance on the dance floor. Because she is a camel. And camels love to dance. When the feeling is right on wasting time.

• 3:18:39Speaker 03

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• 3:19:10Speaker 08

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• 3:19:16Speaker 08

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• 3:19:38Speaker 09

  Para los grandes, para los chicos, para los bajos y los altos, los pacifistas, los valientes, para los optimistas y los pesimistas, los que valoran lo de adentro, para los que están lejos, los que no vende lejos y los que no vende cerca, para los introvertidos y los extrovertidos, para los que piensan y los que hacen, para los que nos mostraron el camino. Coca-Cola, para todos. Compra una Coca-Cola en una tienda cerca de usted.