#576 - Kevin Von Erich

Kevin Von Erich (Kevin Adkisson) is a retired wrestler, WWE Hall of Famer and member of the legendary Von Erich wrestling family- alongside his brothers Chris, David, Mike and Kerry. Their story was told in the 2023 film “The Iron Claw”. Theo is joined by wrestling legend Kevin Von Erich to talk about growing up in the ring, the truth about this family’s complicated legacy, and his advice to anyone dealing with grief and loss. Kevin Von Erich: https://www.instagram.com/thekevinvonerich/ ------------------------------------------------ Tour Dates! https://theovon.com/tour New Merch: https://www.theovonstore.com ------------------------------------------------- Sponsored By: Celsius: Go to the Celsius Amazon store to check out all of their flavors. #CELSIUSBrandPartner #CELSIUSLiveFit https://amzn.to/3HbAtPJ Morgan & Morgan: Visit https://forthepeople.com/THEO to see if you might have a case. Morgan and Morgan. America's Largest Injury Law Firm. BetterHelp: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp — go to http://betterhelp.com/theo to get 10% off your first month. Shopify: Go to http://shopify.com/theo to sign up for your $1-per-month trial and start selling today. Tecovas: Go to http://tecovas.com/theo to get 10% off when you sign up for email and texts. ------------------------------------------------- Music: “Shine” by Bishop Gunn Bishop Gunn - Shine ------------------------------------------------ Submit your funny videos, TikToks, questions and topics you'd like to hear on the podcast to: [email protected] Hit the Hotline: 985-664-9503 Video Hotline for Theo Upload here: https://www.theovon.com/fan-upload Send mail to: This Past Weekend 1906 Glen Echo Rd PO Box #159359 Nashville, TN 37215 ------------------------------------------------ Find Theo: Website: https://theovon.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/theovon Facebook: https://facebook.com/theovon Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thispastweekend Twitter: https://twitter.com/theovon YouTube: https://youtube.com/theovon Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheoVonClips Shorts Channel: https://bit.ly/3ClUj8z ------------------------------------------------ Producer: Zach https://www.instagram.com/zachdpowers Producer: Trevyn https://www.instagram.com/trevyn.s/ Producer: Nick https://www.instagram.com/realnickdavis/ Producer: Colin https://instagram.com/colin_reiner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Theo Von?

  You ever realize that you spent your entire morning thinking about lunch? It's 9 a.m. and somehow I'm already in negotiations with myself about how I'm gonna spend $20 on a sandwich at noon. And then I eat it, or you eat it, or somebody eats it, and then an hour later you're just standing in the kitchen worrying about what you'll do for dinner. And that's one reason why I've been into Huell. The Black Edition Powder is a complete meal you have instead of food, not a shake on top of food. Their powder starts at less than $3 per meal, has 40 grams of protein, and mixes with water or milk in about 30 seconds. I like Huell's shakes because they're clean and it's quick.

• 0:41Theo Von?

  I just want to make sure I have everything I need to keep going the way I want to keep going in a healthy manner. So with Huell, basically lunch went from a daily logistical problem to a thing I can solve in about 30 seconds. Make healthy eating simple. New customers get an exclusive offer of 15% off online with my code WEEKEND at huell.com/weekend. That's H-U-E-L dot com slash weekend. Thank you to Huell for partnering and supporting our show. Today's guest is a WWE Hall of Famer. He's a member of one of the greatest wrestling families of all time, the Von Ericks. You may have seen their family story told recently in "The Iron Claw."

• 1:26Theo Von?

  He's an inspiration, he's a motivation, he's pretty funny, and I just feel honored to be able to spend time with him today. Today's guest is Kevin Von Erich.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  I'm feeling good. I feel like I can toes off.

• 1:58Theo Von?

  Okay.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  If that's a good thing.

• 2:04Theo Von?

  Yeah, so you, yeah, cause you were always the barefoot guy. You were a barefoot guy, huh?

• 2:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11Speaker 01

  I sure was. I always, you know, I've got these really big toes, you know, and once you stub your toe on the mat a few times, it gets bigger. And so, so at first I just took my boots off because it felt comfortable in the ring, you know, just to move around better. I felt like I could fly, but with the boots, you know,

• 2:30Speaker 01

  they fill with sweat, you know, your socks absorb the sweat and all. They get heavy. I had some knee surgeries too, you know, but, but I'll tell you, I go barefoot all I can.

• 2:38Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's good for you. It really is, you know.

• 2:41Theo Von?

  Yeah. Well, I'm sure. I know you moved out to Kauai, was it Hawaii?

• 2:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, Kauai. Uh, it's the,

• 2:47Theo Von?

  That's the barefoot capital of America.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  I'll bet it is. I'll bet it is. It's, uh, we all go barefoot out there. I say, I'm always kind of crazy about that, but I just, um, I, I just hate for my toes to touch each other, you know? I was always like that. I hated shoes when I was a little kid. I guess I got old enough to say no, and I just didn't wear them anymore.

• 3:08Theo Von?

  Did you ever wear those toe separator things? You know what I'm talking about?

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Those are great. You know, I wear them in the, in the river at home, you know, to walk in the river, but you can walk by a vine and they'll catch your toe, you know, it can trip you, you know? It's a little hazard for those things.

• 3:24Theo Von?

  Did you feel like a caveman kinda?

• 3:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. The good kind of caveman. You know, I felt like, I mean, you're gonna drag around a pound by the hair, but,

• 3:34Theo Von?

  Yeah, no domestic disputes or anything?

• 3:36Speaker 01

  You know, because like you feel the ground, you feel the earth. It's just something about it. I didn't know there was anything to it, but Ross tells me, my son Ross tells me that it's, there's a, an energy in the earth that you, your feet can pick that up, you know, and I'm think, I'm, I think I've been digging that for a long time without even knowing that was a, it was a thing, you know, but now I'm, I cave, caveman it all the time out. Kauai, that's the way to live.

• 3:59Theo Von?

  Yeah, I bet it's, well, it's called, yeah, right here it says it's grounding. Grounding, also known as earthing, is a wellness practice that involves direct contact with the earth's surface, like walking barefoot on grass or sand to potentially connect with the earth's natural electric charge. I think it makes sense because even if you look at a tree or a plant, you don't see them wearing a shoes or nothing. Like that would be crazy. If you saw a plant. Like wearing shoes, you'd be like, oh, that guy's, that plant's out of his mind. Like plants, you know what I'm saying? They're connected to the earth. So I think that makes good sense.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  Oh, oh, I see what you mean, yeah.

• 4:27Theo Von?

  Probably kept you pretty locked in.

• 4:30Theo Von?

  Your family lives, you live on your family's ranch, right? Or you live on a ranch here?

• 4:34Speaker 01

  Uh, we bought a ranch. We, we sold it. We had, I lived on my family ranch in Texas. We sold it about 20 years ago. And moved out to Kauai and built a big place, you know, but we. But I wanted to give my wife that kind of house, you know, so everything was in, that was in, in the house was something that I really liked about room service or some hotel overseas, you know? I had a bathtub, you could do a cannonball in it, you know, splash it all over the wall and it had a drain. It was just, every room had something like that, but it was. It's real expensive in Kauai and I have a lot of kids, you know, and so they all go off to their house and no one wanted to live in the big house and, uh.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  And so we happened to trade that to a guy that just happened to have 27 acres, a waterfall on the land, a big nice spring. And, uh, five houses, you know, for my, for my sons. And so we traded that house for that 27 acres and that's where we are.

• 5:31Theo Von?

  No way, just a even trade?

• 5:32Speaker 01

  Even trade, yeah.

• 5:33Theo Von?

  Dang, you don't see a lot of that anymore.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  No, no, I'm glad the guy, I couldn't believe he did it, really.

• 5:39Theo Von?

  Did you have one of those open back, uh, verandas or something it's called maybe in Hawaii? What's that back patio? You know what I'm talking about? Those porches and it's just so perfect?

• 5:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, they call it a lanai.

• 5:48Theo Von?

  Oh, God.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. At, at my daughter's house there, when we stay with her, uh, she's got a bed set up for me on, out there. And so I sleep in the wind, you know, it's great.

• 6:00Theo Von?

  Yeah, dude, you're like that, uh, Legend of Zelda character. What's that little guy's name? Yeah, you're like Link from Zelda. That guy's always in the wind, man. That guy's a real nature dog.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  Zelda?

• 6:11Theo Von?

  It's a char- like a game, it's a character from a video game.

• 6:15Theo Von?

  So you're, so the ranch you have now, all your family can all live there?

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:19Theo Von?

  Oh, that's awesome.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is, man. I'm telling you, Theo, that's like. That's so important to me. You know, I had a lot of brothers and man, I loved them so much. We're really close, super close.

• 6:30Theo Von?

  For sure. Well, I mean, I only knew so much, but you know, I just saw you guys in the ring and stuff like that. And you know, there's been a lot of documentaries and smaller documentaries. There's been the Claw movie. So there's been a lot of, um, you know, references to you guys for sure.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:43Theo Von?

  Your father was, uh, from Texas and he, he was a wrestler. So I'm assuming that's where you guys all kind of got into it.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:51Theo Von?

  Just even knew about it.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is, you know, it's kind of an ugly turn. I don't want to bum me out, but my dad was living up in New York and we were all living up there and I was a baby, but my brother Jackie was like six years old and he would touch a, a house trailer with it had a short in it and it killed him. It, it electrocuted him, knocked him out and he hit a puddle of frozen, water was frozen. He drowned under the ice, you know, and broke my dad's heart. My mother, you know, it just killed him. You know, I can't imagine. I have sons, you know, that I, I tell you, I lost my brothers and that was hard, but I could not lose a son.

• 7:28Theo Von?

  Wow.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. I, I couldn't get up. I couldn't stand on my hind legs, you know?

• 7:32Theo Von?

  Did they have to go to therapy and stuff like that when that first happened to your old, to, cause I guess that was your oldest brother?

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:38Theo Von?

  Did they have therapy back then and stuff like that? Or what did you?

• 7:41Speaker 01

  No, no, there was no, they didn't. My dad was like a rock though, you know, he's, I couldn't believe he was, he just, uh, he didn't want my mother to suffer so he wouldn't suffer around her. But I'm sure my mother suffered so much. And also when she got married, her little brother, David, um, died of a, uh, a brain hemorrhage thing, you know, what do you call it? A tumor, a brain tumor. And so just like a year later, her son dies too. You know, that was just bang, bang, you know?

• 8:13Theo Von?

  I mean, and at those times too, things.

• 8:17Theo Von?

  I think there was more probably tragedy at those times, you know, things were, you know, you have a lot of people had a lot of children and a lot of them work in farming and people would get injured a lot. There was just, I think it was a different time probably when it came to safety and stuff, you know, and they'd have loose wires. I mean, just things were just less regulated, you know.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right. It was, you know, the kind of stuff we did as kids, like, shoot, I can tell you a lot of times it lucky to be alive, you know?

• 8:42Theo Von?

  Oh, God, I've been lit up a couple of times, damn. I was walking by a damn crab restaurant and stepped on an outlet.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  You did?

• 8:50Theo Von?

  Just took me down, brother, yeah.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  You stepped on an outlet?

• 8:54Theo Von?

  Something, I don't know. Next thing you know, I just thought I was, thought the earth was just sucking me into it, just.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  How long were you out?

• 9:01Theo Von?

  I don't know, probably forty seconds, maybe.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  Wow, man.

• 9:05Theo Von?

  Not long enough to give up, I guess.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  You didn't have like a experience beyond the door.

• 9:11Theo Von?

  I didn't get anything. I'm like, God's not giving me any previews or nothing, you know?

• 9:16Speaker 01

  That might be bad sign, brother.

• 9:17Theo Von?

  Yeah, that's true. Actually, if you start seeing the light, I'm like, nah, nah. So, yeah, so your family had that, yeah, so your parents had to deal with that so early, man. Yeah, I guess people suffered in silence more back then, huh?

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, people were tough, you know?

• 9:31Theo Von?

  They were.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  Well, I was just gonna say, you know, you brought up the movie, and the movie was like, I heard a lot of people talk about it, it was like.

• 9:40Theo Von?

  The Iron Claw movie?

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, that my dad was really hard on us when the fact was, you know, that we were hard on each other, you know, we answered each other. It was like a brother thing, really. And the, you know, to tell the truth, the suicides and all, that was not because Fritz made us wrestle or Fritz was a big monster or anything of that. That was shame. My brothers were ashamed with Kerry was, you know, when you're in the public eye, you really feel a lot of pressure. You really do, you know, you don't want to let those kids down. And when something happens, you know, you do feel like you really let them down and you. You know, I don't know, everybody's not like this. Sometimes you just can't forgive yourself. And like Carrie just couldn't let it go.

• 10:24Theo Von?

  And yeah, Carrie was Carrie was one of your brothers. I know you had David, Carrie,

• 10:30Theo Von?

  Jack, Chris.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  And Mike.

• 10:34Theo Von?

  And Mike. Gosh, that's all the boy names they had at the time.

• 10:39Theo Von?

  Y'all couldn't have had another brother because what were you gonna do?

• 10:42Speaker 01

  I'd love to be a girl.

• 10:43Theo Von?

  It would have had to been a girl by default, man.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  No, we wanted a girl so bad.

• 10:48Theo Von?

  Did y'all? Did your parents?

• 10:49Speaker 01

  My whole life, I never knew anything about girls, you know? I mean.

• 10:53Theo Von?

  Y'all had enough beautiful hair in that family. At least you got an idea of how to use it.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  Don't figure that one. Golly, I know what's with that. I never took care of myself. I never expected to live past 50, you know? I was having fun my whole life, you know?

• 11:06Theo Von?

  Oh, I bet. But y'all had so much dang hair. Y'all were very, very, y'all would have been considered trans, beautiful, tall, trans women. These days. Y'all would have been, because you guys were ahead of your time. Even like all the rock bands in back then had, remember Poison, all those bands, they had the big hair.

• 11:23Speaker 01

  That's the truth.

• 11:24Theo Von?

  Did you guys have?

• 11:25Speaker 01

  They had hairdos.

• 11:26Theo Von?

  Y'all had some hairdos. Did, was that something like a pride? Was that almost like a lion's mane type of thing amongst the guys in your household? Or what was that like for you guys? Because you guys had some great hair.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  No, you know what? It was just laziness to tell the truth. I mean, you know, I, I cut it where to keep it out of my eyes, you know? But then I, I cut my own hair, you know, because I don't pay that kind of money.

• 11:45Theo Von?

  Yeah, I can tell, dude. I cut my own shit.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  Well, I can't see the back, you know? I don't have them all up on purpose, you know? But, but I can cut this up here, you know?

• 11:58Theo Von?

  So, so your dad, I do want to know a little bit more about him. So you said that the, the film kind of portrayed him as being more of a, a stickler. But what was he like? Was he a businessman? Was he quiet? I mean, I guess he wasn't quiet because I could see like his wrestling persona, but was his home persona like, well, I guess what was he like as a father? And what was he like as a businessman?

• 12:18Speaker 01

  But let me tell you, my dad was like a mountain of a man. He was, he was. He was, he was really a consider, full of love God, but I mean, he was serious. And when he would, he wouldn't say anything like, you know, before you go to sleep at night, you think, oh, man, I wish I would have said that, wish I would have thought of that. Well, he thought of it right then and he would say it right then.

• 12:40Theo Von?

  At night, you mean?

• 12:41Speaker 01

  No, I mean, like whenever it came up, yeah, whenever he thought of it, it was just right there. Like, man, perfect dancer, you know, but I mean, uh, he was the president. Okay. You know that movie, The Iron Claw where Fritz says, oh, the NWA always wanted to screw me. You know, kind of like, but the truth is he was the NWA, he was the president, you know? And, uh, and, and he was the, the other wrestlers, I mean, world champions. I mean, when my dad came in the room, I mean, they were like rolling on their backs like dogs.

• 13:12Theo Von?

  They respected him?

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, they, yeah.

• 13:15Theo Von?

  Or they feared him like, cause his business acumen or just?

• 13:18Speaker 01

  I think it was his business acumen. I really do. And, and the way he stated himself, he didn't ever pop off. He didn't ever brag. He always had the accurate thing to say that not too much emotion at all. Just business and, and people respected that. I think in the wrestling business, we have a lot of personalities, you know, the big egos. And sometimes these guys don't want to do something, you know? And, uh, but my dad had the respect and it, it made a great business. It was just, I think you have to have that in you. Myself, man, you can talk me out of anything, you know? Oh, is that all the money you have? Well, I'll take less, you know? I'm, I'm, I know why I'm like that, not like my dad at all. He was, he was great.

• 14:02Theo Von?

  He was a business guy.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  He was, yeah.

• 14:05Theo Von?

  And what was he like with your mom? Like, do you have a nice memory of them being together? Like something like a moment that you remember that was, um, that meant something to you?

• 14:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess so.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  One time I was in the den and my mom and dad were kind of whispering and they disappeared and my brothers were really young. So they went into the little study there, I guess to talk and, and I thought they've been in there a long time. And so I took the little coat hanging, straightened it out, you know, and pushed it in the door and opened it up. You know, they were at it. And I'm like, oh man. And the way I said, so as a little boy, I thought, why are they so mad? You know, what are they so mad about? You know, they were, it sounded like they were, they were having fun.

• 14:51Theo Von?

  It sounded like a two out of three falls, huh?

• 14:54Speaker 01

  Well, I just felt like I needed to go in there, you know, and break this up, whatever it is, you know, and it was, that was kind of one of those moments, I guess.

• 15:03Theo Von?

  Break this up. You bring a whistle in there?

• 15:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:06Theo Von?

  That's hilarious.

• 15:07Speaker 01

  Right. She needs there.

• 15:09Theo Von?

  That's really something, you remember that?

• 15:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I remember that. Trying to think of that beautiful moment. That's what came up.

• 15:15Theo Von?

  So everybody was wrestling, huh?

• 15:18Speaker 01

  I guess so.

• 15:19Theo Von?

  Wow. Um, did you feel like you had to be a wrestler in your family? Like, was it?

• 15:28Speaker 01

  Well, you know, the truth of it is, my dad didn't want us to wrestle, you know. In fact, you know, he was so, his finger was stuck, you know, and his hands didn't move right.

• 15:40Theo Von?

  Oh yeah, he probably walked around like a damn crossing guard.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  Oh God, he was. In his lower back and knees. And so, you know, I actually said to my sons, you know, you don't want to do this. I promise, you know, here we are in Hawaii and I can't even run on the beach. And I was a high hurdler, you know, I used to high jump over my head, you know, and I loved to move. But a day comes, you know, where you traded that, traded that away, you know. So I told my boys, you don't want this, you know, you really don't. And, uh, but you can't tell them that, you know, they, uh, they were just like I was. I wanted to do what my dad did. I thought he was great. And so were my brothers, you know, we thought, every, everything he did was great, we thought. And that's why I wanted to do it like that. I'm sure my sons are thinking the same stuff,

• 16:26Speaker 01

  you know?

• 16:27Theo Von?

  Well, I think there's nothing more, there's something inside of a son, you just want to make your dad proud. You know, you want him to look at you and, and yeah, just feel a sense of pride.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  That goes deep.

• 16:38Theo Von?

  Yeah. I mean, I think that's probably the deepest thing that there is.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 16:42Theo Von?

  I really, I don't think there's anything less. I mean, you. You ask anybody, do you feel like your dad's proud of you? It's like that, you know, it really takes them to a place when they're thinking about that or answering that, you know?

• 16:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:53Theo Von?

  Um, were there, was people using steroids and stuff back then? I used to use steroids in high school. Was it a thing when you guys were growing up or no?

• 17:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was. It sure was. They, um, you know, it was, uh, I, I didn't really ever want to really get into that, you know? And, uh, because we had naturally good bodies, but my brother Kerry was, uh, a bodybuilder. You know, he'd peel the skin off the chicken and eat the rice with no soy sauce on it.

• 17:22Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  I'd never do that, man. I mean, I ate Twinkies, chocolate milk, five or six glasses a day, really. I love chocolate milk sugar. My favorite food is sugar.

• 17:31Theo Von?

  Oh, I'll eat damn two grams of sugar, dude.

• 17:33Speaker 01

  Me too, man. I mean, if it tastes good, then my body must want it.

• 17:37Theo Von?

  Yeah, because when I was growing up, yeah, he's so fit, huh?

• 17:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:40Theo Von?

  He was probably the most romantically fit of you guys, huh?

• 17:43Speaker 01

  He was, man. He was the thing as a little kid. He was the, girls all loved him. Uh, uh, uh, the teachers loved him.

• 17:51Theo Von?

  Damn, straight men loved him.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  He was.

• 17:53Theo Von?

  I mean, you gotta look, if you can go further enough past women where you get straight men to love you, you could have straight, I mean, this is, you know, in rural areas, you could have men that are, were like, no gays, but they would watch and then just adorn this gentleman. I mean, you know, that, those are the times, kinda, but yeah, Barry, he was, he was super fit. Did, um?

• 18:17Speaker 01

  I see that picture. I remember, he was a little boy, he was so cute, but he said, uh, we, we went in the barn one day, there's a big old wasp nest up there, red wasp, you know, how they stuck the ceiling up there and so, you know, they're in the barn, we're all alone and so, uh, so we, uh, you know, those things that you should, uh, gift wraps, the long tubes, they come in the, in the Christmas present?

• 18:42Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 18:43Speaker 01

  So we lit one up and said, Kerry, hold it under those, those, those red ants, but remember to hold your breath, cause they can't sting you if you're holding your breath, you know? And so, but, so don't breathe. And so we light it up and we're watching him go in there, you know, and he'll, they drop all on him and he runs out crying and we said, stupid, we told you not to let, to breathe. And he said, it's hard to hold your breath when you're crying.

• 19:09Theo Von?

  That is a great, it is hard to hold your breath when you're crying.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was right.

• 19:14Theo Von?

  My favorite, when we were kids, we used to pick on each other at dinner so bad. And the best part was to get somebody to cry when they had a mouthful of food, right? Because they couldn't swallow because they were crying so hard. So the food just got, it'd be like, it just got stuck in the mouth, you know, just that shit was so funny, dude. Having siblings was so much fun, huh? Did you guys do like Halloween and stuff together or any, like, did y'all do that?

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, you mean go out and throw eggs at people and stuff? And we did all that.

• 19:46Theo Von?

  And what was like birthday parties and stuff like at your house? Because with so many kids, would you guys combine some of them or you, everybody got?

• 19:52Speaker 01

  Well, we had a lot of boys, you know, a lot of us in our house. And I remember like ladies saying, oh, it smells like boy in here. And, you know, because they smell like boys, I guess. But, but I do remember that it was really hard for mom to get babysitters because like we would, we were really hard on them, you know, just playing with them and stuff, you know? We'd kind of make a joke out of it and they'd be crying and they're never gonna watch these kids again. I was climbing the walls and stuff like that.

• 20:22Theo Von?

  Oh, you need Abdul the Butcher to be your babysitter, I feel like.

• 20:25Speaker 01

  Probably so.

• 20:27Theo Von?

  You'd need somebody big. At that time in wrestling, were steroids like a popular thing? Like I remember when I was in high school, we would, people would use like test 200. But even growing up like in Texas, was it, did people even know that steroids were bad for you? Or was it just like a medicine that was like kind of common in wrestling, do you feel like?

• 20:45Speaker 01

  Well, doctors would give it to you. I mean, I didn't, I had trouble gaining weight when I was like, well, my whole life I've had trouble gaining weight. But, and so I took Dianabol when I was in high school, but I took one a day for like.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  Two weeks and then lay off for two weeks and then take it again for two weeks and lay off for two weeks. And that's, that was what, kind of that was a little boy pill is what that was for little boys that weren't getting puberty. And then back then, like you say, there weren't all these rules and all. Steroids weren't necessarily a dirty word, but doctors did give them to people like after surgery and things like that to improve their appetite and things like that. And it makes a difference, but if you don't lift weights, if you really have a strict regimen, then it's just gonna give you pimples on your back and make your hair fall out and your breath stink and all that stuff, you know?

• 21:43Theo Von?

  Yeah, it's, yeah, if you're not, yeah, if you're just shooting steroids and then just watching, you know, I dream of genie or shit like that, yeah, your life's gonna fall apart.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, like those guys that get the injections to make their muscles look big. Can you believe, have you seen some of these guys with the, they don't even work out. They go in, they get silicone injections for muscles, you know? I gotta tell you, Theo, muscles are nothing, you know, it's all, you wanna know your, in wrestling, I would lift weights because I wanted to be a better wrestler. I want my kick out. I want to push my man off. I want to be able to bench, you know, a lot because that's, it's important. But I mean, it's, to look pretty in the mirror, I mean, that's just a few shades short of fruity, if you ask me, you know?

• 22:33Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah. I mean, look at this guy.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  That's the stuff, that's what I'm talking about.

• 22:37Theo Von?

  What in the hell is that?

• 22:38Speaker 01

  No, I mean.

• 22:40Theo Von?

  The guy looks like he's stealing from Target.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  Really?

• 22:45Theo Von?

  What is that guy doing? What is that guy doing?

• 22:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:53Theo Von?

  That guy looks like [BLEEP] in a little.

• 22:59Theo Von?

  And I'm gonna take that joke out. That was

• 23:02Theo Von?

  that's offensive. I just wanted to make you guys laugh.

• 23:06Theo Von?

  Which, uh, yeah, we used to use them. I'm trying to think. And we used them. Yeah, I just like, we got in and we were weightlifting pretty heavy and it was fun using them because it definitely made things easier. You know, that was fun and you, I felt, you felt way more invigorated, you know, for sure.

• 23:22Speaker 01

  What kind, what kind did you do?

• 23:24Theo Von?

  We were doing like test 200 and then people would, some people would do Deanna Ball. I never got that. We just would go on spring break and get test 200. Or some people worked on farms and we'd get test 200 from them, you know, testosterone or something.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, some of that stuff, I mean, I have to say that, uh, some of that stuff, the guys, you could see veterinary use only on the box, you know, I mean, equine this and all and.

• 23:48Theo Von?

  Oh, some of you, you'd open up and it'd be like,

• 23:51Theo Von?

  even when you took the top off, you're like, shit, that ain't for us.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  That's what it was. It really, yeah, I was never, uh, into that because you really can kill yourself with it, you know, it's like, it messes your whole body up, you know, and.

• 24:03Theo Von?

  Was it popular in the sport when you got into it? I'm just trying to wonder what the times were like and how men felt like they had to.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  For your old man.

• 24:12Theo Von?

  Well, and did, and you guys were, because your family was in, your family was in good shape overall. But some of the shapes in wrestling weren't, it wasn't as much about the shape. You know, there was a lot of guys out there that were just

• 24:24Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:25Theo Von?

  big, tough guys.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  Well, we wanted to put the best show on television we could do. And if that meant take steroids too, we didn't care. I mean, priority one was our body.

• 24:37Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  I mean, was our, uh, was delivering that punishment, you know, we moved quick and exploded. If you ever, you've seen our wrestling was.

• 24:45Theo Von?

  Oh man, Kerry was so, it's unbelievable watching him.

• 24:48Speaker 01

  Well, we just, that's the thing. We wanted to, and that was the attitude back then. If, if the guys were wrestling, they're gonna do steroids. Well, then it only fair that we do them too. Now, we didn't, don't get me wrong. It's like, it's not like we were really into it. Kerry went to the University of Houston and was still on the discus for Coach Tellez down there, if you have H. And, uh, The stuff you learned on there was all this like expert stuff about weightlifting and weight events and all, you know, they would take a cigarette and puff a cigarette right before they throw.

• 25:22Theo Von?

  Uh-uh.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  And yeah, it's something in the nicotine would kick the muscles in, you know, kick your body, it would give them just a little edge, just a little more.

• 25:31Theo Von?

  I love that.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  Or they drink ice cold water before you have a Go Max on your bench. It helps just a little bit.

• 25:38Theo Von?

  You hear that Coach Hester? Kurt Hester, he's a speed and strength coach of mine. I think he coaches at the University of Houston now, but um, I'm gonna make sure he hears that. I'm realizing that anywhere worth going is worth going in good boots. Find your perfect pair with Tacovas. That's what I'm wearing. I like these wide toe they got on them, baby. You know, sometimes, now I like the wide toe, but sometimes I'll wear that little pointy toe, that little bird foot, you know? If I'm doing something, if I'm trying to just, you know, dance with a woman or impress a parakeet, baby. Being confident isn't about being different, it's about being yourself. Every one of Tacovas boots are handcrafted with over 200 meticulous steps for broken

• 26:23Theo Von?

  in comfort right out of the box. Yeah, I started wearing my Tacovas just during the evening time, but now they're just growing more and more on me. It's just like, gosh, my feet are just better now. Now, I won't wear them when I sleep, I ain't no pervert, you feel me? Right now, get 10% off at tecovas.com/THEO when you sign up for email and texts. That's 10% off at T E C O V A S dot com slash Theo. tecovas.com/ Theo. See site for details. Tacovas, point your toes west. You know, so many of us have dreams, things we think about and like, oh, I could make

• 27:07Theo Von?

  this, or I could create this, and then I could offer it to people, offer a product or an experience or a modality to help others. Well, Shopify is the thing that connects your dream.

• 27:24Theo Von?

  To your audience, I'll say that straight up and that's the truth. You know, when we started out, we had a, a, a website and an interface and then we had a store and at a certain point, we needed help. We needed a site and a store that could fluctuate and Shopify offers just that. You might say, well, what if I can't design a website? Shopify's got you from the get-go with beautiful, ready-to-go templates to match your brand's style. What if I need a hand? Get help with everyday tasks like enhancing product images, writing product descriptions, or generating discount codes with Shopify's AI tools created for commerce. Turn those dreams into

• 28:08Theo Von?

  and give them the best shot at success with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com/ Theo. That's Shopify.com/ T H E O. Shopify.com/ Theo. So when you guys were, because didn't Carrie almost throw the disc, didn't he almost go to the Olympics?

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:32Theo Von?

  But the Olympics got canceled that year because what year was it? Didn't Johnson cancel the Olympics?

• 28:38Speaker 01

  Eighty, it was the eighty, no wait, but yeah, 1980, that's what it was.

• 28:42Theo Von?

  The president canceled the Olympics, right? We didn't go?

• 28:44Speaker 01

  No, it was that thing, uh, I believe that was a, there was a airliner flying over Korea and a Russian shot it down. It was over a sensitive area and the, and I believe it was Jimmy Carter.

• 28:57Theo Von?

  Oh, Jimmy Carter.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 28:59Theo Von?

  And we didn't do the Olympics that year?

• 29:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:01Theo Von?

  But he would have competed, Carrie would have competed?

• 29:03Speaker 01

  Well, you know, uh, I think he would have, but I'm not really sure what, because they would have had to have the, I think he went to Champagne for those, uh,

• 29:14Theo Von?

  Nationals?

• 29:15Speaker 01

  Pre-games, yeah, Nationals. But I don't think he went to the other, they even took it that far. I'm not sure, I'm not sure how it went up.

• 29:23Theo Von?

  Which one of you guys was kind of the leader of you guys as brothers?

• 29:26Speaker 01

  Well.

• 29:26Theo Von?

  And I know sometimes it goes by age, right? Because there's always a.

• 29:29Speaker 01

  I was the big brother, you know, and no doubt about that. But my brother Dave had a real responsibility streak. He was just, my dad would come to him and say, okay, I want this fence to be, I want it to go down there 200 yards and I want a good post or I want a double fence and I want, And I want everything just right. And he told Dave. And so Dave would tell me and Kerry what to do.

• 29:51Theo Von?

  He's the foreman.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's the foreman. And so it kind of worked that way in wrestling, too. And he was good on the microphone, too.

• 29:59Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  It's important. You gotta be good on the mic.

• 30:02Theo Von?

  Was there a time where all of you guys were wrestling at the same time?

• 30:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, just briefly, it was. Man, that was so much fun, too, because we never got to go to Japan together. Dave and I went to Japan together. Kerry and I went to Japan. Never together, though. But when we could all three to be together, just for the, when we first started out, you know, for that first year, we could, all three of us could go to towns. We got so much fun, man. We always would stop. We'd scuba dive all the way there. You know, if there's clear water, if it's just a river or something, we'd dive in and swim. It was just a...

• 30:36Theo Von?

  Oh, along the way?

• 30:37Speaker 01

  Just, yeah. We had fun all day. And we wouldn't even go to the dressing room. We'd get dressed out in the in the woods where the swimming hole was, and we'd get our wrestling stuff on and go right to the show, get in the ring, come back out and do our stuff, you know. We had it down. We had fun.

• 30:52Theo Von?

  And you got a leech in your tights, brother.

• 30:56Theo Von?

  Hey, don't call it that.

• 30:59Theo Von?

  Were you all, did you all train together at home at a certain place? Like, what was that kind of?

• 31:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, we had a gym outside the house and on an adjacent property. And

• 31:11Speaker 01

  and I'm probably the cause of all the pressure because I would put up Vincent Bardi posters all the time for myself, you know. I wanted to be the best I could be. And that was what it was like to live in my own. Back then, it was like, we lifted weights three times a week, but we ran, we swam. Everything was about getting better. Because I wanted to play in the NFL. And Kerry...

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Well, Kerry just wanted to wrestle, and Dave wanted to wrestle, but I was a football player. And so that's what it was all about. It's just do your best. Quitters never quit. Winners never quit. Quitters never win. You know, that kind of stuff. I had posters everywhere on the gym and we'd spot each other and push each other and call each other sissies if we couldn't do it, you know. And I mean, we would spit on each other. You know, we were savages and we wanted to get good as we could be. And when we wrestled, it was hard. You know, we were rough because we, anything worth doing is worth doing right. We wanted to be like successful moms like Dad was, but it would meant just go all out,

• 32:22Speaker 01

  you know, completely commit. And that means every day. On Wednesdays, we'd run 500, 400 meter, five, one lap around the tracks, 400 meter. We'd run 500s on Wednesdays, we'd time them. And Kerry and I were both high jumpers. Kerry high jumped too. And we could bench, Kerry and I figured as long as we could bench twice our weight and high jump over our heads, then we would, we'll always be in shape. And well, yeah, for knee surgeries and I just can't do that again. But that was the theory we wanted to go with. And Dave was the same. Dave didn't work out in the gym as hard as we did, you know, but Kerry and I did. Everything we did was to exhaustion. And like where you're kind of nauseated. When

• 33:05Speaker 01

  you think you're about to throw up, now you've done enough. We really did, man. It was all the way.

• 33:11Theo Von?

  I quit way before that, I realized.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, everybody does, man. That's the, if you want to look different, you have to do what everybody else doesn't do, you know. And I mean, fight through that.

• 33:21Theo Von?

  And did, were all of your brothers kind of subscribed to that same mentality? Or did some of them come along just because that, with that mentality, just because they were your brothers?

• 33:32Speaker 01

  No.

• 33:32Theo Von?

  Does it make any sense?

• 33:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I guess, yeah, nobody was just along for the ride.

• 33:37Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  I think they were all pretty much just wanted to be like, me, Dave and Kerry wanted to be like dad, but you know, things got kind of different when we were in, when we were kids. When I was in junior in high school, sophomore in high school, my mom and dad were going to get a divorce, you know, and my dad was going to move out.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  That's my freshman year is what it was. And I came into the kitchen one day, my mom and dad are talking and dad said, Kev, I'm gonna move to Dallas and just get an apartment and y'all are gonna stay here and it's gonna be just great. Y'all go to school and come see me on the weekends. So y'all talking about a divorce? And he said, yeah, son.

• 34:20Theo Von?

  He's trying to describe it to you without saying divorce.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Well, I want to go with you dad. And Dave heard me and Kerry came and said, we do too dad, we want to go with you. And so my mom's gonna be there alone, it looks like, you know, and I guess they, but I was the mitigator with that, you know, and they kind of worked it out. But with the deaths, you know, then my mother was kind of damaged inside. It made her like, she was suffering so much. She, you know, with Dave, she was tough. I mean, like her little, own little brother and Jackie, but then with Dave, she toughed it out, you know? But then baby Mike, he was the baby of our family, you know? Chris was even younger, but Mike was the, we'd been traveling around and we weren't home that much. So when Mike was the baby, you know?

• 35:06Theo Von?

  Traveling with wrestling? You guys had been traveling with wrestling?

• 35:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. See Dave and, the movie doesn't have the super, Dave and Kerry were both married, you know? And Kerry had, Dave had a daughter, died a crib death, but Kerry had two daughters. And Holly and Lacey, and beautiful, sweet daughters. They, they spent every Christmas with us and we told you, I got the big house for all to have, all to have our Christmases.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Because family is just, like we were saying, there's nothing more important than family to me, after any thinking man. And then, then again, there's the, being wrestlers and our brothers. I mean, my dad's a bad guy, you know, and they're booing him. It kind of makes you feel like it's us against the world, you know? These people are booing my dad, if they hate him, then we hate them too, you know?

• 35:57Theo Von?

  What was that about? So they, because?

• 36:01Theo Von?

  At what point did they, did the, what the audience turned on your father? Or just part of the?

• 36:05Speaker 01

  No, he was like the perfect bad guy. He was a Nazi and after my brother Jackie died and they're up in New York, he was like, his wrestling changed. He was different. He was a, he was wild inside. And I think it was like he wanted to just take it out on people and it showed in the ring. Theo, when people would, when the wrestlers would come to out of the dressing room, get in their cars, the fans would stand around and boo, you know, from a distance. But when my dad came out, they'd get in his car, silence. They were like, fear. It was like fear. He might run over here.

• 36:45Theo Von?

  Oh, it was such an exciting time back then when wrestlers would come into the ring. I mean, there was just, God, I remember being a kid and we would lose our fucking minds and just beat the shit out of our sister. The second the fucking wrestling program came on, we would beat the shit out of our sister. Oh, man. For no fucking reason.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  I guess she was, she just couldn't get, get used to the schedule and no problem to stay away at that time of day or something.

• 37:12Theo Von?

  If it was more than an hour broadcast, she knew she was in for it. I'll tell you that. You hear a lot of stories about how wrestling was like, you know, we had to wrestle one night and then the next night you had to wrestle again. And did you go on road trips like that? Where it was like a few days at a time? Was it weeks and months? I mean, what was it really like back then?

• 37:31Speaker 01

  Theo, in 1984, I wrestled 386 times. And that's, there are a lot, a lot of those were triple shots, double shots on, on, uh, on Sundays, you know, we'd wrestle TV shows or we'd wrestle, we'd do two or three times. But after the, started to be the deaths, you know, then I would have to, my, my dad had it working. Dave could sell out a building, Kerry could sell out a building, I could sell out, but Mike was not quite there, you know, and so. When Dave died, either Kerry or me had to fill his slot, you know, work in another town. And that was hard, but then Kerry with the foot.

• 38:12Speaker 01

  Now I've got two slots to fill, you know, and so I was resting three times a day, almost a couple of times a week, but I was resting every day.

• 38:20Theo Von?

  Was it an option to take, take those, some of the slots off the schedule? Or did you guys feel like as a family, we have to fill this? Did you feel like your dad was like, we have to fill this, or it was just, that's what you did?

• 38:33Speaker 01

  Well, I gotta tell you, we, you know, after the deaths, we were, uh, we were down, you know, and we sure didn't feel like getting back in that ring. But, you know, you have to, because after death, there's all the publicity and dad's saying, you know, it's been a week, it's been two weeks or whatever. But I mean, there were times when we said, dad, I can't do it yet. Can't do it, you know, but he did want us to get in that ring. But it was a family business. I don't hold it against him. I understand. But, uh, it was, uh, brutal to make yourself do that. I mean, but what's on your mind? It's a love and brotherhood and seeing them again in heaven. But you want to project, I'm gonna kick that guy's ass, you know, it's kind of your torn, you know?

• 39:19Theo Von?

  A lot of lives like that, huh?

• 39:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 39:21Theo Von?

  It's like having two feelings at the same time. It's like, especially with death, because it's like somebody's gone, but they're the one that's gone, but you're the one that hurts. And, and you don't even know what they're feeling like. And you almost don't want to like mourn too much because then it's like, are you just using the mourning for yourself? Does like all that kind of stuff has always hit me.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  I know. You wake up in the morning and there's nothing, you can't think about anything else. Man. I'm old enough, I can tell you a little something now. I never wanted to endorse marijuana or put it over because, you know, I had a position, you know, but when I would wake up in the morning, I could not think of anything else. That's all I thought about. And if I smoked a joint, I could daydream, I could think of something else, you know, and I, I had to, I was grateful for that stuff. I mean, it helped me.

• 40:17Theo Von?

  Well, I'm sure especially out in Kauai is probably.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Oh, shoot, yeah.

• 40:22Theo Von?

  That was helping everybody.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  Well, so I had my knee replaced, you know, and it didn't go very well. It's kind of, I rehabbed it too quick. See in college, when you have a knee surgery, you, you fight like hell to get it back, you know, and well, I got out there and I got a knee replacement, but I'm a senior citizen. And so instead, I shouldn't have rehabbed it like that, you know, I like, I, I was doing flips off the cliff with the boys and it knocked something, I smelled glue on my breath. I thought, oh, that can't be good. Cause they use glue in there.

• 40:53Theo Von?

  Really?

• 40:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:54Theo Von?

  And you think some of it came up your bloodstream and you could taste it a little bit?

• 40:56Speaker 01

  I tasted it. Yeah, I tasted it.

• 40:58Theo Von?

  That's bad.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  Anyway, so.

• 41:01Theo Von?

  Damn, they're using damn glue?

• 41:02Speaker 01

  Well. Yeah, they do. They use glue.

• 41:06Theo Von?

  Well, shit, we could use glue.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  I mean, I mean, they had, they're power tools. Really? I mean, working on you, they got a drill, the whole deal, you know, they hide it from you.

• 41:15Theo Von?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. With that anesthesia, dude. They just bring in a couple of Cub Scouts in there and they're doing damn woodwork on you in there. Um.

• 41:23Speaker 01

  Playing with.

• 41:28Theo Von?

  With wrestling, did you have to be as tough at the wrestling part as you did at the partying part? Like, there seemed to be this thing when I, when I look back on like wrestling and a lot of the stories, um, especially coming up out of like the seventies, eighties, nineties, where not only did you have to prove yourself in the ring, that you were the toughest guy, that you were able to do the matches, but then you had to prove yourself again, like at the drinking table. Was that part of the culture as much as?

• 41:55Speaker 01

  Oh, man, it was that was the easy part for us because neither none of us really like taste of booze, you know, we uh, I mean, I I I'll have a drink or even two, but I'm done. I can't drink six of anything, you know, and uh, I'm a lot of people can, but I think that was a big thing for us. We never did get that big stomach, I guess. A lot of my friends, you know, love that beer. All my teammates, you know, my wrestling colleagues love beer, but I I I never did get into it. And I'm glad I didn't because it it's taken its toll on a lot of good men.

• 42:28Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  But um, I'll tell you this, after those knee surgeries, I had to take three Oxycontin a day.

• 42:35Theo Von?

  God.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Shoot, one in the morning, one in uh, noon, and or one at one o'clock, and then one at sundown. And because they have time, they had time release in them, you know, and it can work great. It didn't make you goofy or anything, but I could ride a bike, you know, and stuff, and I could, I could, it it it kind of hurt worse later, but with the pain pill, I'll take another dang pill.

• 42:56Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah, I feel like a damn Care Bear if I take one of them.

• 42:59Speaker 01

  Shit. Well, then COVID came, and I went to get my medicine, because we never left our our ranch, except for go to the doctor, you know, I mean, we had everything there.

• 43:08Theo Von?

  In Kauai?

• 43:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, in Kauai. I I grow four different types of avocado, and we trade them with our neighbors. We have uh, um, turkey, we raise sheep, we have tilapia, fish, full of thousands of fish, and and every kind of fruit you could think of, you know, it's we had to have reason to go. The boys are sparring fish and throwing the net and catching crabs. And so it was a great way to live, you know, so we just didn't really leave. But um, COVID came, and uh, so I go to get my medicine, and it's like twice as much. I was already paying nine hundred bucks a month for it. It's two eighteen hundred. And I said, well, I'm quitting this stuff. And so um,

• 43:48Speaker 01

  I quit, but man, I got these flu symptoms like, you know, I felt like I was weird. And, uh, but I fought through it, you know, but, uh, Ross got me this stuff called kratom. It's a leaf on my tree and we could grow, we grow the tree out there. You can crumble it up or it comes that you put it in a powder, put it in a pill. And I was able to kick that, uh, OxyContin in, uh, 10 days. I wouldn't even want another one.

• 44:13Theo Von?

  By using kratom, you were able to kick?

• 44:15Speaker 01

  Kratom, kratom did that, yeah.

• 44:16Theo Von?

  And then were you able to get off the kratom?

• 44:18Speaker 01

  That was easy to quit kratom. I never liked that stuff. It smelled like hay anyway, you know, but it was easy to get off of it. But, uh, so, you know, I decided, I told you when it came on, I wanted my life to kind of be, help someone, all that suffering, you want to look at something good.

• 44:36Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  You know, and, uh, and if anyone is suffering from any kind of addiction like the opioids and all, bear that in mind, there are kratom places all around. I'm not saying I'm not getting any money for it. I'm just saying it sure helped me. And if you're an addict and it was bothering you, I mean, I, I could, I couldn't believe I was addicted to this stuff. I mean, I wanted to quit and I got sick. I thought, shit, never gonna let something happen like this to me again.

• 45:01Theo Von?

  How bad did the Oxy, did it, did Oxy, like feeling like you had to take OxyContin get?

• 45:07Speaker 01

  Well, um, I never kind of let it get to that point. You're supposed to take it at one o'clock, supposed to take it in the morning, at night before you go to bed. And so that's what it always did.

• 45:15Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  And you don't walk around high, you just don't hurt, you know, cause it's got the pain relief, like the time release in it, you know, but.

• 45:22Theo Von?

  But that kratom was helpful, huh?

• 45:23Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 45:24Theo Von?

  Wow.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  Sure was.

• 45:25Theo Von?

  Yeah, I have a friend who got addicted to kratom. Um, so I think there's probably, there can be a slope there, but I certainly could see how it could be used to help people get off of OxyContin.

• 45:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's illegal in some countries.

• 45:37Theo Von?

  Kratom is?

• 45:38Speaker 01

  Kratom is, it must be illegal, uh, addictive, yeah.

• 45:41Theo Von?

  Was, was addiction, um, ever part of the, any of your brother's issues or no? Did addiction run in you guys' family? It runs in my family.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  Well, you know, I don't think it does. My, my brother Kerry, you know, was, uh,

• 45:56Speaker 01

  He went to the Betty Ford clinic and all these places, but he was never addicted to anything. He just liked all of it. I mean, he'd do cocaine one day, he'd do pain pills the next day. Acid, I mean, mushrooms. It was something different all the time. And I'm not saying I'm so good.

• 46:14Theo Von?

  No, but it sounds like it was, it sounds like he was addicted.

• 46:17Speaker 01

  He was addicted to the feeling.

• 46:20Theo Von?

  Ah, to the feeling. I see what you're saying.

• 46:23Speaker 01

  Just getting out of his skin.

• 46:24Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah. God, that's a steel cage match I don't want to be in my own skin.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, man. But you know, that's life. You've got to fight through that crap, man. You've got to just fight through it.

• 46:37Theo Von?

  Well, yeah, because to me, it sounds like he might have had, he could have had addiction problems. Like if they had looked at it by today's standards, you know, I think things were definitely looked at differently then.

• 46:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Might as well, because if you can't stop, then what do you call it, you know?

• 46:49Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Because I know he wanted to stop because it was, because he had those beautiful daughters. He loved them so much, you know.

• 46:55Theo Von?

  Holly and what was the other one's name?

• 46:57Speaker 01

  Holly and Lacey.

• 46:57Theo Von?

  Lacey.

• 46:58Speaker 01

  Lacey lives out in LA and Holly is out there in East Texas now. And hopefully they'll be with me soon because, you know, I've been going back to Hawaii every few months, every month, you know. And, uh, but I haven't been back in a couple of months now. And man, it is hurting me because Benji, my little treasure's out there. Jill's, Jill has four. She has a boy and three daughters.

• 47:21Theo Von?

  And who's Benji?

• 47:22Speaker 01

  Benji is the six-year-old. And we're like this. We grow everything together.

• 47:26Theo Von?

  Oh, that's a grandchild?

• 47:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:28Theo Von?

  Oh, God.

• 47:29Speaker 01

  No, I've got a lot of grandchildren. My son Marshall has given me two.

• 47:32Theo Von?

  Okay, well, he can get more out of them.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I sure can.

• 47:36Theo Von?

  Fire him up.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  And then Kristen has given me plenty and, and, but that boy and I, Ben's five, you know, four, three, that age, he was just with me all the time.

• 47:48Theo Von?

  Oh, it's fun.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  And now, uh, Marshall has given me a grandson and he's just about to turn five. And we're like that. I mean, it's either monster trucks or we're turning over rocks. We're just throwing rocks and catching snakes and bugs and lizards and all. And it's just, it's just fun all the time, you know, but it's like.

• 48:07Theo Von?

  Yeah, I could see that for sure. You remind me also, uh, I mean, if you were my grandfather or something, that would be awesome. And you remind me of Tommy Lee, actually, about probably like, does anybody ever tell you that?

• 48:20Speaker 01

  Who's Tommy Lee?

• 48:21Theo Von?

  Tommy Lee from, um, Motley Crue?

• 48:25Speaker 01

  Oh, that band came to Sportatorium, a bunch of nice guys. I know those guys.

• 48:29Theo Von?

  Of course you do, dude. That's you, dude. That's why you know him. But, uh, Tommy's a great guy. Tommy's great. You guys just remind, the way you guys talk and stuff, does that make any sense to you, Nick? Tommy's the greatest dude, man. He's nice. Just the way you guys sound and stuff like that, he's a super guy. Yeah, they're good, man. Um, did you ever fight somebody high? Could people fight high in the ring? Did people ever fight high in the ring?

• 48:54Speaker 01

  Uh, I don't think so. I mean, not, not on purpose.

• 48:58Theo Von?

  Right.

• 48:58Speaker 01

  You know, but I, I couldn't remember the, uh, oh, golly. Uh, yeah. Oh, we did before.

• 49:09Speaker 01

  There was this stuff called GHB, and it's this super drug, but they sold it in like athletic stores, you know, and sporting goods stores, because it was like a fat burner. And so we're going to this town and Kerry, and, and, uh, Kerry's going there. He told us, he told us not to take too much of it, but by the time, he said, you'll probably go to sleep in the car, but by the time we get there, you know, your, your body's gonna be burning your fat off, you know? So we took that crap and golly shoot. I don't know how we got through that night. It was terrible.

• 49:41Theo Von?

  Are we zombies?

• 49:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, we were. We was like, like, we're just sitting there dozing off, right in match time, and, and it'd be just one of the brothers trying to wake you up, you know, shut up, you know, and, oh, it was terrible, terrible. That stuff or something.

• 49:56Theo Von?

  Yeah, I could just imagine what that's like at that time. You're almost like, anything to kind of get an edge. Everybody's testing out the cool stuff. I know where the new thing is. I guess that's, that's always been a part of that bodybuilding world too, I think, you know? When you're big into bodybuilding, a lot of those things kind of come along, like, you know, there's different creatines, there's different, um, uppers, there's like these, uh, testosterone revigorators or whatever. And it's like a picture of like, comes, sometimes it comes in like a huge set of balls, the, the powder or whatever, like, what the hell is this? But yeah, there's all types of, um, that, that, bodybuilding's always been on the edge of the, of like,

• 50:33Speaker 01

  So competitive, yeah.

• 50:34Theo Von?

  Using us, and finding an, uh, uh, an advantage.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, that was, that's so, when two guys are gonna look at, looking at the mirror with each other and you're,

• 50:46Speaker 01

  I got better things to do.

• 50:49Theo Von?

  At a certain point, I think so. It's interesting that you refer to other wrestlers as like a team, or you refer it as your team or something. Is that how you guys thought of y'all's wrestling organization as a team?

• 51:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a family business and it was like a team. It was like, you know, we were never were jealous of each other, you know, as to the real truth to it is, you know, when my dad and I flipped, when Kerry and me flipped the coin for the world title, well, the truth to it was that I had a family and I'm married and I have children, you know, and Kerry wanted to be the world champion, but to be the world champion is a special kind of wrestler to do that and not a Kerry. You need somebody that makes the other guy look good. That's really what it's all about, you know, and Dave could have done that, but and I think Kerry may, I couldn't have done it though.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  I've been a babyface my whole life, you know, I kissed the babies and I've, you know, do all that stuff, but the real difficult work in wrestling, the hard stuff is to be a heel. That's the creative stuff, you know?

• 51:59Theo Von?

  And for our listeners that don't know what a heel is?

• 52:02Speaker 01

  Well, a heel is the heavy, the bad guy, you know, the Bruiser Brodys and the Kamalas and the King Kong Bundy's, you know?

• 52:10Theo Von?

  Why is that the tougher spot to be?

• 52:14Speaker 01

  Well, because you're limited for a good guy, what you can do, you know, but a bad guy, he could do anything and he'd better do it too, because it's all about, you know, it's like you're slaying a dragon, you know, there's the knight in shining armor and there's the big ugly dragon, you know? When I first went out to Atlanta on WTBS out there, I was 19 years old and, you know, handsome kid, you know, and the hero, and here comes the big monster to wrestle me. It's this Terry Gordy.

• 52:49Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 52:49Speaker 01

  Big monster.

• 52:50Theo Von?

  Bam Bam was his name?

• 52:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I found out, talking to him, he was 16.

• 52:56Theo Von?

  Oh, my.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  He was a teenager all that time.

• 52:58Theo Von?

  What the hell?

• 52:59Speaker 01

  He is.

• 53:00Theo Von?

  Y'all are being damn sex trafficked, you know?

• 53:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:05Theo Von?

  That's hilarious. You're both scared of each other. You're both haven't even finished schoolwork.

• 53:10Speaker 01

  Well, that's it. You know, you want each.

• 53:13Theo Von?

  Bring that picture him up. I'm sorry to interrupt you, Kevin. Bring that picture him up. Look at that fella, dude.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:19Theo Von?

  That's wild, huh?

• 53:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was something else. You would have loved him.

• 53:24Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  I'm telling you, Michael Hayes is a, he's a character, buddy, but that guy was 100% gold inside.

• 53:32Theo Von?

  Oh.

• 53:33Speaker 01

  He would fight to the death, but he had a heart for little kids and for girls and he was just nice. He was such a good guy, man. But he was a battleship too.

• 53:44Theo Von?

  What, um, did he pass away?

• 53:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:47Theo Von?

  What happened to him?

• 53:49Speaker 01

  Oh, shoot. He was, uh, he overdid it on the plane. He OD'd on a plane and they had to restart him. Shoot. And then something, I believe that his, uh, blood was stayed away from his brain too long and it starved his brain and he had some damage. When he, when he came out of that, then I, I talked to him and he just, Kev, uh, I hurt myself, brother. I said, no, Terry, you're fine. He go, no, I'm not fine, Kev. So he had, he could talk to me, but he was real slow. He didn't have any of this hand eye kind of coordination.

• 54:30Theo Von?

  So it cost him something, huh? Dang.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  But then I'd always heard that he fell off the jetway, getting on a plane one time too. I think he did. He fell off the jetway drunk, landed on his head and got back up and got on the plane and made the show.

• 54:44Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 54:45Speaker 01

  But so I thought that was why, why he was like that. But he said, no, it's something else. You know, yeah.

• 54:53Theo Von?

  So many guys went through so much, man. Terry Funk, he's, he's still alive, I believe, isn't he?

• 54:59Speaker 01

  Man, I hope so, but I hadn't heard the bad news if, if he had.

• 55:04Theo Von?

  I know he says he passed away in August.

• 55:06Speaker 01

  I love that guy and Dory too, so I hope that I.

• 55:10Theo Von?

  Terry Funk was, man, he was incredible to watch, wasn't he?

• 55:14Speaker 01

  He sure was. He taught me so much too. Me, my brother Dave and I were nineteen, eighteen years old and we're the bad guys and Amarillo wrestling Dory and Terry, who were great, good guys, you know, they loved him.

• 55:28Theo Von?

  And Dory Funk as well?

• 55:30Speaker 01

  And Dory, they're brothers and their dad was Dory Funk Senior.

• 55:34Theo Von?

  Okay.

• 55:35Speaker 01

  A super badass. Well, these two were in the ring and Dave and I, we're just learning, you know, we're just learning about this. Dave, pretty good heel, but I didn't know what to do really. And so we're in the ring and, uh, and, uh, Dory's telling us everything. He goes, spit on me, kid. I said, sir? He said, spit on me. So, I spit on him. So Dave unloads on Terry too. The crowd went wild. They hated our guts. So they beat us, you know, and I get on the mic and I say, you're in trouble now. I'm gonna get my daddy. And so then, oh, they fooled me good, you know, and so I loved being a heel, but I just wasn't good at like, you know, like Dave was, you know, Irvin Curry.

• 56:20Theo Von?

  So that was the real, so that, so that was something that was tough to be a heel?

• 56:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a lot harder. You have to have some creativity about it, you know?

• 56:28Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  And then you've got to have a personality that we're, I mean, that, that, that you're projecting, it's gotta come from in here, you know?

• 56:36Theo Von?

  Right. And you can't get upset if people don't like you because you're almost the guy that people don't like.

• 56:41Speaker 01

  Well, Dave and I come back from the ring in Florida one time in this, and Dave's a bad guy and so I'm a heel too. And so this guy steps up, you remember people would dip skull and they spit in those cups? So we sloshed that stuff on us, you know, and I thought, well, you know, we've been make, we've been begging them to hate our guts. Finally we're there and I look and Dave's running up in the bleachers after the guy.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  Kicked us off in the stands and all. But, uh, so I said, Dave, we worked our butts off to make them hate us. He goes, Dave was just, you know, you couldn't talk to him, he was so mad.

• 57:17Theo Von?

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• 58:00Theo Von?

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• 58:44Theo Von?

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• 59:24Theo Von?

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• 1:00:52Theo Von?

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• 1:01:08Theo Von?

  Kerry, um Kerry, do you think he was the most athletic?

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, Kerry was a really good athlete.

• 1:01:14Theo Von?

  He was?

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  He was just everything he he says it just came easy to him. In fact, when I watched him play his senior year in high school, it looked like a

• 1:01:25Theo Von?

  Play football?

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  It looked like Terry Gordy playing against some of the Peewee guys, you know, he was that big. And I sound like I'm exaggerating, but he carried the ball five times and he scored five touchdowns. And the coach took him off offense, just said he wanted to save him for defense, but he was great on offense. He was a good linebacker, too, but but he was really a good running back. I've never seen anybody just run through people like that.

• 1:01:50Theo Von?

  Dang.

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  But he didn't like football. The Texas, University of Texas offered him a scholarship. He didn't want to go. He didn't want to play football. He wanted to do track. Yeah. No, he wanted to do track.

• 1:01:59Theo Von?

  He wanted to do track.

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  And Dave, the same way, basketball. Dave loved basketball. I love football, you know. But we go to North Texas and Dave, because it has his scholarship, we're both there, you know, and and so I look up on that hill one day and it's a real hot day and I hear a pop. And so I hits the ground. So I look up there and I can see through the dust, Dave's big old frame getting up off of that ground. He's playing wide receiver and we had some defensive backs were killers, you know. And and so Dave gets up and I see the coach is parked over there watching practice and he walks out to Dave and he tells Dave, we're practicing in that air-conditioned gym out there. And when we get thirsty, we get a drink

• 1:02:45Speaker 01

  of water. It's not like this out here. And so Dave quit and went to play basketball at North Texas and I played football. But that we all each our sports. Dave was a basketball player. I ran, I played football and Kerry was discuss, you know.

• 1:02:59Theo Von?

  And your other brothers, Mike and Chris, were you guys a little bit disconnected from them because of age?

• 1:03:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was it. Because by then, we were wrestling and we weren't home very much. And Mike was the big brother to Chris.

• 1:03:10Theo Von?

  Got it. So that was almost like a second, it was almost like a second installment.

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:16Theo Von?

  Of children in a way.

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was.

• 1:03:18Theo Von?

  Yeah, I saw that match with Kerry and Ric Flair. Or there's one match I remember, it was during the daytime, right? And I think it was in 84, maybe?

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:28Theo Von?

  Just it.

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  Daytime, it was 84.

• 1:03:31Theo Von?

  This was after David had passed away.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:03:34Theo Von?

  Were you at this match?

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I wrestle on this card too. And.

• 1:03:39Theo Von?

  Because he looks so much more athletic. And no judgment to Ric Flair, I mean, their age difference is maybe huge here. But did he ever have to slow down with other wrestlers to make it look more real? Does that make any sense?

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  Well, I suppose, but yeah, you know, it's all about.

• 1:03:58Speaker 01

  It's, he had such charisma, you know, that his charisma was really his thing. I mean, he had a great body and a beautiful build. And I'm gonna tell you, Tony Atlas and I were bench pressing and I had a good bench press. I could bench 445 pounds. But my brother and Tony were benching 520, both of them. And I mean, repping it, you know? And I've never seen anybody as strong as Kerry was. I mean, Kerry, for his size, had the most power of ever, and you see somebody be able to bring up.

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  And he was agile too. I mean, I told you, he's a high jumper, a really good high jumper.

• 1:04:36Theo Von?

  What was it like when Flair came to town? That must have been a ride, huh? He's just quite a character.

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was. He's something else.

• 1:04:43Theo Von?

  He's something else, man.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  You got a show with him, right?

• 1:04:46Theo Von?

  And the best time. Because he's just, he's got stories and he like, you know, he likes to, you know, it's fun.

• 1:04:53Speaker 01

  He's all fun, all the time.

• 1:04:55Theo Von?

  And it's no other side to it, really.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:04:57Theo Von?

  It kind of isn't.

• 1:04:58Speaker 01

  He is a real gentleman. He's got a great voice. You know, when you hear his voice, you think, that should be a radio man.

• 1:05:05Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:06Speaker 01

  You know, he really does sound good, but, but when he comes to your town, he's gonna give an interview that's gonna rile, I don't care who you are, he's gonna make you furious and you're gonna come down and see him get his butt kicked. And so that's, you gotta have that, you know? That's, that, that's Rick. Now Harley, Harley Race and, and the other champions, the.

• 1:05:29Speaker 01

  Drawing a blank, but I mean, the, um, the Briscoes and, and they were great, but these had something else they brought to the table. Harley was, you know, he has rep all of his different holes and moves and, but Rick, what an interview he gives and he's got the experience too, you know, he's something else and he's got a good head for, for when to do what he does. But you see what I mean? That was a guy like me really, really wouldn't fit the bill like Rick would. Rick is gonna, and he's gonna bump all night. He doesn't ever get tired, you know, he's the, he's gonna have, he's gonna drag it out to an hour. He's gonna try to.

• 1:06:04Theo Von?

  Yeah, just magnetic, man. That was a magnetic time.

• 1:06:07Speaker 01

  He is.

• 1:06:07Theo Von?

  Um, what was one of the most traumatic things that happened to one of your brothers in their life while they were alive? Um, was there anything that kind of started, changed their life a little bit that we didn't really see as much?

• 1:06:22Speaker 01

  Well, probably so, yeah. Uh, my little brother Mike, you know, with the toxic shock syndrome he had, we were wrestling in Tel Aviv and, uh, we're gonna do some shows in Lebanon too. And so Mike's wrestling the guy, but his shoulder had been, uh, dislocated and he popped it back in the dressing room, got back out there in the ring and it popped out again and it had really popped out bad this time. So, uh, we flew him back to Texas to get surgery and with the incision, it got, uh, toxic shock syndrome. It's a tampon thing ladies get, but they had such a huge incision where the arm was, where the shoulder

• 1:07:07Speaker 01

  was that they had she've got gauze in there.

• 1:07:10Theo Von?

  Oh, and somebody got left in?

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  I think that might, it didn't get left in, but it got septic or something maybe. Uh, but whatever it was, his fever went up to so high, 106, 100, I even heard 107, but that. It didn't kill him, though. In fact, the doctor came down, I say team doctor, you wouldn't believe it. The hospital was filled with fans, you know, they wanted to offer their kidneys or their liver to Mike, you know, that's such a love, you know, but the docs told us that he's just, his fever is too high. He's not, he's not gonna come back and he's, he's not gonna make it through the night. And so rather than go up there and say goodnight, like he told him to, like he told us to, then we had,

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  uh, my parents were down in this waiting room at the hospital up here at Baylor. And we had, uh, Gary Holder was, we had a chaplain that would go with our shows, you know, big shows. And he gave a prayer where he talked about, he said, "God, you say anything we ask in Jesus's name, then you will do it. So we're asking you to stand on your word." And he slammed that Bible down on the desk. Man, I wanted to hide my head. I thought he went too far, you know? But it was just a few seconds later, the door opened up and he said, "The fever's broken. There's hope." And we ran up to see Mike, just like that.

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  It was, and David Manning was right there, my dad was there, my mom, Carrie saw it. It was a miracle, man, it was really a miracle and beautiful, but I don't want to get in an argument with people in it, but I would love, like I told you, I'd like my life to have an experience that people could benefit from, you know? If you're somebody that's like, maybe I was at a time, like, life is overwhelming. And you know what? It's, it's like, when you overcome something, you're so much a better man than you were before. It's like when you're pushed to your limit and you have to adjust or die, you get stronger, you get stronger.

• 1:09:21Speaker 01

  And God, and I would just say to anybody that's out there lost, if you want to feel like you'll never be afraid of man or beast again, you will not be afraid of dying if you know where you're gonna go when you die. And I mean, I know where I'm gonna go and I, I have no fear. I mean, it's, it's a great life.

• 1:09:40Theo Von?

  Did you, uh, did you have a religion instilled in you when you were growing up? Did you have like, um?

• 1:09:44Speaker 01

  No, that's the thing. We went to church on Easter, you know, I remember, but, uh, this is a pretty odd story, but, um, I spent the night with, uh, this, my dad's real estate partner's a doctor and I spent the night with him one night and the next day was Sunday and they took me to church with him. And so I went to church and so, uh, the only reason I went is because if you spent the night, you're going to sleep with the dog and I love their dog, you know?

• 1:10:11Theo Von?

  Oh yeah, dude, I've stayed over places just to be by the animals.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  Uh huh. Well, uh, we go to church and he, these men surround me and ask me if I wanted to accept Jesus. And so, uh, I knew that song, Jesus loves me, you know? And I've been to wrestling before and I'd seen people poke the finger and stuff and I knew that was bad. You know, and I thought, I don't want to be bad. I want to be good, you know? So, so I want to be on that side, you know, because I've kind of seen a little of those words, you know?

• 1:10:41Theo Von?

  Yeah, you weren't a good heel.

• 1:10:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. No.

• 1:10:45Theo Von?

  This was, this was, this was choosing not to be a heel.

• 1:10:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:48Theo Von?

  For eternity, I mean.

• 1:10:50Speaker 01

  Well, that's, well, you know, now that I understand what was going on, because I was just a little boy, you know? So I, I said the prayer, you know, and they asked me if I believed Jesus died, you know, I did. And I felt something move in my, something weird in my chest and I thought somebody, there were men standing behind me. I thought they did something to me like, but I actually felt something move inside me. And I think it was that little bit of evidence gave me a lot of courage and I knew God was with me. I knew he was. And that night I was, uh, got out of my bed and I went and I looked on my porch. I was just looking at this, outside the stars.

• 1:11:28Speaker 01

  And I'm a little boy, I could have imagined it, but I could have sworn I saw an angel fly across the field with a horn in his mouth, like it was a blown horn. I didn't hear any sound. It looked just like a Christmas, uh, ornament, sort of a Christmas tree, but, but in my mind, this, this was my best day of my life and I belong to God now and I have never been afraid of anything since then.

• 1:11:49Theo Von?

  Amen. Yeah, it's, it's interesting. I think people get, sometimes people get scared to share like their testimonies or moments that they've had where they've just felt like something stronger than them took care of them.

• 1:12:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:00Theo Von?

  You know? Yeah, I remember a feeling one time where. I was just broken down, man. I was really banged up about a relationship and just not sure what I wanted to with my life. I'd moved back in with my stepparents and man, I remember one time I was just, just on my knees bawling and I just felt something come around my heart, man. I can't even explain it. Just like this, this, this warm thing, just, I mean, I'd never felt where my heart was. I mean, I'd put my hand on it hoping for the best when I was pledging allegiance.

• 1:12:31Speaker 01

  Theo, he's knocking on the door, you know.

• 1:12:33Theo Von?

  But I mean.

• 1:12:33Speaker 01

  You're a little boy, you're beautiful and you're all alone, suffering like that. God, that was God, Theo.

• 1:12:40Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:41Speaker 01

  He came to you. You know, we got one lifetime to learn it, you know, that there is such a thing. I mean, let me tell you, there is a devil and people want to say there's no such thing, but there is, boy, I can tell you a really weird story, but it's 100% true.

• 1:12:58Theo Von?

  Yeah. I mean, your life's full of craziest stories ever.

• 1:13:01Speaker 01

  Listen to this one. Okay. So I'm going to wrestle, but uh, Big Daddy, King Kong Bundy, and the sport is, and the little Rogers Coliseum in Fort Worth. So on the way to the ring, Kerry said, Kev, come here. I said, what Kerry? He said, I was dad on the phone. Mike's just been in a terrible car wreck. He's, he's dying now. Dad said, don't try to get there fast because he'll be dead before we get there anyway. And I said, what? And so I ran to the ring. Ring the bell. I ring the bell. I grab Bundy's leg, schoolboy him, one, two, three, ran to the back, carrying a hauled ass to the hospital, still on my wrestling stuff. And so we get there and there's cops everywhere and they're standing by the doors and I run right into

• 1:13:43Speaker 01

  them. I bust open and I, and there's this black lady out there and she said, my baby, my baby. And when I crash those doors open, there's a little black kid laying there dead and blood and stuff. So I go out the other door, open the door and there's Mike. Hey, Kev. He was fine, just fine.

• 1:14:05Speaker 01

  And so I I I'm like, I'm numb, you know? And so I knew my parents were on the way down here. And so I I go outside and I see them walking down the ramp. And I said, he's okay. And my dad just fell down, my mom, or they fell down. Well, so I'm gonna get my car to come home. And Abilene is west, but Denton is north. Well, for some reason, I went west. And I'm almost to Abilene, eastland. Just, I was so out of it, just driving. By the time I got home, I was sleep, uh, so sleepy. The sun had already come up, Pam had been waiting for me. And so I was gonna take my bulldog down to the lake and wash him. I had cast your soap, you know, it's okay for the environment. And all was so much of my dog.

• 1:14:48Speaker 01

  And, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I I I maybe it's concussions, but before that, I said, "God, thank you for giving me my brother back. Let me fight the devil." I I said, "Satan, I wanna, I'll fight you, I'll fight you." And, uh, and said, "Let me fight him, God." It was stupid, a stupid boy. And so I go to the lake and wash my dog. And Theo, I swear this happened. So my dog, everything's real still. And and I'm feeling weird a little bit. And I look and I see there's a bush here and some more bushes here and a hill here. And I see these little black things taking position against me and advancing on me.

• 1:15:31Speaker 01

  I felt like I could smell blood, I could smell death. And I said, "Get in the car, Pam." And I put my back to the car and I was like this. And, uh, and I would see him going from trees, they're getting these positions. And I was, I was ready. And next thing I know, I'm out. I'm having a seizure in my car. And and and so Pam screaming and crying and these fishermen have run up to help. And I must have hit one or kicked one or something. But a girl ran up and said, "I know his parents. Uh, I'll get them." And an ambulance came and all that. But I know it's because I'm a man and I've challenged the devil. And we have Jesus in us that fights the devil.

• 1:16:14Speaker 01

  We don't have anything to do with the devil. And so that was, that was my lesson that I learned. But I know that happened. And it's just in me like written on my heart and with a nail.

• 1:16:26Theo Von?

  Look, it's a testimony, man.

• 1:16:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:28Theo Von?

  I thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I think sometimes we don't think that the devil is real and that's it. That is the devil's way to trick us. I believe that.

• 1:16:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:35Theo Von?

  You know, if you don't think that evil's real, then it's how quick, you don't know how close it is to you either. You know, you don't know how intertwined it could be in your own veins. If you don't even believe it's real. That's a pretty masterful trick.

• 1:16:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, and we think with a man's mind and they have, the devil has an angel's mind. You know, I mean, he's way smarter than we are.

• 1:16:53Theo Von?

  Devil's a thug. Devil's, the devil is a thug, you know?

• 1:16:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:56Theo Von?

  That is the truth, man. Thank you for sharing that. I've had friends share some really, uh, some strong testimonials, some moments where they just felt that, you know? I mean, there's been moments in my life where, yeah, I just felt you just get that feeling sometimes. Do you ever get overcome with that feeling? You're just so thankful that God has been with you?

• 1:17:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:14Theo Von?

  Man, because you thought you did it yourself and you realize you didn't, that God was there with you, man. When that, when I've had that feeling come over me, God, I mean, it just, it'll, you just, you almost feel like you thaw out some, you know, like you thaw out.

• 1:17:29Speaker 01

  And then we get to a position where we, where something bad comes along, we're, oh, God, don't let this happen. You know, and, and he saves us again and like, oh, I forgot the other times too, you know? And, and you know.

• 1:17:40Theo Von?

  No, I'll forget. I'll forget.

• 1:17:43Speaker 01

  You're the little southern boy. I know what kind of, you caught copperheads and water moxons and stuff like that, I'm sure.

• 1:17:48Theo Von?

  Oh, I definitely, I got electrocuted a bunch. I was definitely beaten a lot. Yeah, we got bit by things, attacked. I got attacked by a bunch of stray animals. I grew up in the stray animal belt.

• 1:17:58Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:17:58Theo Von?

  So they had just.

• 1:17:59Speaker 01

  What kind of stray animals?

• 1:18:00Theo Von?

  Oh, anything, brother. Snakes, raccoons, birds, dogs.

• 1:18:05Speaker 01

  Man.

• 1:18:06Theo Von?

  They, uh, I don't even know, just they had dogs wearing jewelry, all kind of shit was out there looking for us.

• 1:18:14Speaker 01

  Man, you've got a good memory.

• 1:18:16Theo Von?

  It was dangerous out there.

• 1:18:18Speaker 01

  Well, um, you know, I used to get chased, I got chased by a goose when I was a little kid.

• 1:18:22Theo Von?

  By a ghost?

• 1:18:23Speaker 01

  A goose.

• 1:18:24Theo Von?

  Oh, a goose, yeah. I'd rather a damn ghost. Gooses are dangerous, dude.

• 1:18:28Speaker 01

  They're like and bite, you know, but for little kids, scary.

• 1:18:33Theo Von?

  They don't care and they're violent. And dude, a goose will come at you, it'll just be one of them. Some animals will have four, five or six of them. Raccoons are like that, you know? Um, ants are like that, you know, they won't come at you just one, but a goose, that thing will roll up on you solo. That's pretty savage when you think of it. Is that you?

• 1:18:53Speaker 01

  That's a ghost is thinking rambo.

• 1:18:56Theo Von?

  That's crazy. Um, oh, what were the, your parents' lives like? What was like, um, are your parents, either of your parents still alive?

• 1:19:03Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:19:04Theo Von?

  Okay. Are they buried in the same place?

• 1:19:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, they are. Yeah, we, uh, we had my mother, uh, you know, we, when we moved out, I couldn't move to Kauai without taking my mom with me.

• 1:19:15Theo Von?

  Oh, so you took your mom with you?

• 1:19:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:16Theo Von?

  Oh, dude.

• 1:19:18Speaker 01

  And she lived in the house with us too.

• 1:19:19Theo Von?

  Did she love it there?

• 1:19:20Speaker 01

  Uh, you know, my dad used to wrestle in Japan a lot, and so we would meet him in Hawaii. And I didn't realize it, but Hawaii reminded her of her sons. And she didn't want to go anywhere. She wanted to stay in her room and she wanted to grow her flowers. And that was it. She just, she did love it. She loves her flowers, you know, but it was like, um, it reminded her too much of that. But she, and she passed away up in our, our guest room upstairs and, uh, but all my granddaughters and my, my sons' wives were standing around her singing hymns while she passed away. And you know, before she died, she was a super good woman. She was so sweet and thoughtful to everyone.

• 1:20:05Speaker 01

  When she'd come to school, I'll be so proud of her, you know, because all the kids would like her. But when she was laying in that bed and she breathed her last breath, even as she, huh, like that, her hand went up like that. And I could just picture touching Jesus's hands and going to heaven, you know?

• 1:20:23Theo Von?

  She was probably ready to go see her sons, huh?

• 1:20:25Speaker 01

  Oh, I know she was. You know, my dad, I'm trying to tell you all this personal stuff, buddy, but, uh.

• 1:20:32Theo Von?

  Oh, I could match you if you need, but we've heard my stories a lot. No, I just can't imagine. I bet she was ready to go see her sons, you know?

• 1:20:40Speaker 01

  She was.

• 1:20:40Theo Von?

  I bet she'd been gone away from them long enough.

• 1:20:43Speaker 01

  And you know, my dad too, because really, when you think about it, my dad lost more than my mom. My dad lost his sons, but he didn't, he didn't ever show it. I mean, but he hurt. He was hurting, but he was like, uh, it was just that he.

• 1:21:00Speaker 01

  At his latter, at the final days, he was so torn up inside. I think when he saw me, it would remind him of all the sons he'd lost. And he pulled that forty-four out one day.

• 1:21:12Speaker 01

  And he pointed his head like, I'm just gonna shoot myself. And da, da, da, no, don't do it. Don't do it, dad. And he pointed the gun at me and I said, he said, you're afraid to die, aren't you? Cause I, he said, you have the guts, you do it too, if you had the guts. And I said, dad, it doesn't take guts to live. I mean, it take guts to kill yourself, dad. It take guts to stay alive on this earth. And he was hurting so much. He would just go, oh, God. He'd rub his face to go, oh, God. And when I'd hear that, I actually wanted him to die. I wanted him to pass away. He was, he was just miserable. And I know that when

• 1:21:57Speaker 01

  he died, he was right there with Dave Carey. It was beautiful. But my dad had gotten, he said, look, son, if you kick an old dog enough times, he's gonna bite you. And that's how I am with God right now. He's kicked me too many times. And so I said, dad, it's gonna be, you're gonna be so surprised. But I couldn't convince him of it, you know? But.

• 1:22:24Theo Von?

  Yeah, I can't ima, I can't imagine what it's like to be kind of the soul, the surviving son. Did you feel chosen? Or did you feel deserted? Does that question make any sense?

• 1:22:35Speaker 01

  Sure. It's funny you'd say that. Yeah, because I felt chosen in the way that my dad gave me a tape recorder back when I was in fifth grade. It was a bell and howl, you know, and you could talk into it. And I couldn't believe I could hear my voice, you know? And so. And so I thought I love my dad so much. I filled the tape. It was okay. One day dad's gonna die. And I'm gonna talk and here I am alive while he's still alive. And so I'm gonna say something to make me feel better. Man, I'm sorry, Kev. Sorry, buddy. I just filled the tape up with that.

• 1:23:10Theo Von?

  Oh, as if you were impersonating your dad?

• 1:23:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Like I can comfort myself later when I work.

• 1:23:15Theo Von?

  No, dude, that's really interesting, though. That's so interesting.

• 1:23:18Speaker 01

  But I remember saying, Dave and Carrie, we loved each other so much. I thought I can't bear to lose them. I could not bear it. And I thought, but they love me that way. And so I said this even in a prayer. I said, God, if one of us has to stand back, if one of us has to be the only one, let it be me.

• 1:23:39Theo Von?

  Wow.

• 1:23:40Speaker 01

  Because I'm hard and I'm strong inside. But God made me that way. But I didn't know it would ever happen. But I did say it, you know?

• 1:23:51Theo Von?

  You know, I used to have, I mean, this is like silly, but like, so when I was growing up, I didn't have any, like, whenever my dad died, I didn't have any thing of his, right? I didn't have like a shirt or like a button or just anything to remember him by, you know? And so I used to write postcards to my kids, right? Whenever I was on the road, just traveling over the years, doing comedy, I would write postcards to my kids. I don't have any kids yet, but I would send them postcards just so in the future, they would be able to see that I was thinking of them, right?

• 1:24:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:19Theo Von?

  Like, I just wanted to, I wanted to prove, I would say.

• 1:24:21Speaker 01

  That's so smart, bro.

• 1:24:22Theo Von?

  But right, but I just think it's the same type of thing. It's like, you're just trying to like, I don't know. You're always thinking of like, um, how do I make sure that every, that somebody knew I cared or that somebody knew somebody else cared?

• 1:24:35Speaker 01

  I'm gonna die someday. I'm gonna die someday.

• 1:24:38Theo Von?

  It's just, stuff like that is interesting. I think a lot of people do little things like that. But that's interesting because you could have felt like you were deserted. But to end up feeling that you were chosen, that's pretty powerful.

• 1:24:51Speaker 01

  Well, I don't think I'd say that word chosen more like I'd say that I, I would not want to put them through that.

• 1:24:57Theo Von?

  Ah.

• 1:24:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:59Theo Von?

  Like you were the one that could handle it?

• 1:25:00Speaker 01

  Then I think I, I would not want them to go through it. Yeah. I would rather me go through it than they did. And I think.

• 1:25:08Theo Von?

  That's sweet of you.

• 1:25:08Speaker 01

  God might have gave me some credit for that, you know, because it's all about this. We're in a struggle, you know, it's like we're not on this earth to laugh it up and have fun. We have tests, real tests, and life is hard. And that kind of stuff that kicks you in the nuts is what makes you stronger.

• 1:25:26Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:27Speaker 01

  Makes you more strong. And without that, you can't give advice to people about things you haven't been around. You know, but once you've had it and been suffered yourself, now you can say, listen up.

• 1:25:39Theo Von?

  With that said, like, and I agree, you know, I was just thinking about that the other day. It's like, I've always had this outlook and they kind of don't teach you that when you're a kid as much that, and they really shouldn't when you're a young child. But I think they should teach you at some point that life is a test, that it is full of a lot of tests. And it's not all just going to be like this perfect thing, or everything might not work out the way you think it is. You know, you never really kind of get that education, maybe. Or maybe some parents do give it to their kids. But with what you said a second ago, if you had to share something with somebody who had lost a sibling or who had dealt with, you know, some grief from loss, something that you've learned, because, I mean, you're like almost the Neil Armstrong of loss.

• 1:26:22Theo Von?

  I mean, you've, you've had, you've endured a lot in your life, you know, and watched, and watched other loved ones endure a lot, you know. What, what have you kind of learned that you feel like you could share, if anything?

• 1:26:34Speaker 01

  Well, thank you for giving that opportunity because that's what I want to do is to try to make it positive for somebody, buddy. But, um, you know, it's tough because I want to tell people like, when somebody dies, it's going to get better. But it doesn't get better, man. You don't even get used to it. It's just keep tolerating it and you just, somehow it gets a little better someday. But there's no good word to say to them, but when somebody's really busted up, you know, and it, it, when you overcome that and are able to, um, um, maintain through that, well, then it's,

• 1:27:16Speaker 01

  it's now you, now you've, uh, you've achieved through a struggle. You've achieved over an obstruction, you've gone over a hurdle, you know, and it's like.

• 1:27:30Speaker 01

  Now you can say you won. Now I can say you won something because without a fight, there can't be a winner. There can't be a champion. There can't be a success unless there's that adversity, you know? And so God wouldn't put you through that unless you're gonna benefit. You got a great mind, you're intelligent. God can tell.

• 1:27:51Theo Von?

  Oh, thanks, man.

• 1:27:52Speaker 01

  Life is, he's knocking on your door too, my friend.

• 1:27:56Theo Von?

  You two, I feel like you and me are probably pretty similar in some ways. You feel that?

• 1:28:00Speaker 01

  Sure do.

• 1:28:01Theo Von?

  I do too. Do you, uh, was, how, how, how therapeutic was having your own family for you?

• 1:28:12Speaker 01

  Everything, man. That was what did it, is what saved me because, uh, man, when you can have anything you want, you know, and your brothers can have anything they want and, and they come over and let's go do this, let's go do that. It's like, what a life. I mean, it's, uh, it's a whole lot, but, well, I don't need to bum me out now. I don't want to start bumming.

• 1:28:35Theo Von?

  I don't feel like you're bumming me out at all.

• 1:28:37Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:28:37Theo Von?

  No, I was just thinking like, well, I was gonna ask you what's something that you admire about each one of your children? And then I was gonna ask you what's something that you,

• 1:28:46Theo Von?

  maybe like something funny or something silly that you kind of admire or maybe miss, something goofy or something about each one of your brothers, maybe? Just like a nice, like a, like a band they like to listen to, just something like that?

• 1:28:59Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Well, we love the good music. I can tell you, I've never told anybody this story, but, uh, we had our, we had a, like a treehouse, but it was built on stilts, a little room on stilts my dad built us. And so, uh, we had a cut, my mother was the third oldest, but there were, she had an older sister. And so her older sister came over and she had two sons and they were, they could pick on us, you know? And so we were hiding up there and they were trying to get it, we'd pull the rope up, we'd let them go and we had rocks, we're throwing rocks at them. And so there, it got really bloody, you know, we're chucking rocks and hitting each other and, and you know, and, and so.

• 1:29:41Speaker 01

  I think I'll let one go and hit one of the guys right in the head, you know, and my cousin, it would have kicked my ass if he could have caught me, you know, but, but so he runs in the house to tell on me, so we'll get in trouble, you know, and so me, Dave and Kerry are come down from the tree house, you know, we're watching out, they're not gonna ambush us and beat us up on the way to the house, you know, but they run to the house to tell on us, you know, so we, we run up there and so the guy's bleeding, my cousin's bleeding, my cousin Steve bleeding all over the place and dad said, what the hell happened? And I was about to fist up dad, Kerry said, dad, he got a little razor blade, cut his

• 1:30:20Speaker 01

  head and my dad started cracking up laughing, you know, and so Dave and I go with the story, you know, and I think he started laughing and just let it go, but I think back on that, Kerry was such a cute little kid, you know.

• 1:30:38Theo Von?

  He was lying about it, huh?

• 1:30:39Speaker 01

  He did. He was that way.

• 1:30:42Theo Von?

  He was quick, huh?

• 1:30:43Speaker 01

  Another time we were riding in the car and my friend had a BB gun, so we were riding on the BB gun and shooting signs and warning lights and stuff, you know, so we drive by a pickup and he shoots the windshield and.

• 1:30:58Theo Von?

  Of your own vehicle?

• 1:30:58Speaker 01

  No, no, it was a friend of ours, a friend of ours, an old man that had a ranch just south of us and so shot.

• 1:31:06Theo Von?

  Blew it out?

• 1:31:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, shot the window out and the cops were gonna get us, you know, and we're running from them and all and got in such trouble and so we're answering for it all. We got away and so they weren't sure that we were the ones, you know, and so the cops were all talking to us and my dad was there and I hear my dad say, my sons won't lie to me. So I'll ask them, my sons will not lie to me. And so he calls Kerry over there and Kerry had already lied to him, you know, and so I heard dad say that, he said, come here, Kev. And Kerry's over there, we're going with the lie, you know, but I'm busted and so I'm gonna say, I want to, I can't get the word to Kerry, I get it to Dave, Dave

• 1:31:50Speaker 01

  can't get it to Kerry. And I said, yes, sir, dad, we did it. We all did it. And I said, Kerry, come here, son. Kerry looked me in the eye. I want you to tell me the truth. Did you do it? He said, no, sir, dad, I swear.

• 1:32:09Speaker 01

  Oh, man. He never forgave me for that.

• 1:32:13Theo Von?

  Gary could lie. That's all right. Somebody's gotta lie, man.

• 1:32:16Speaker 01

  Man, yeah.

• 1:32:18Theo Von?

  And what about Chris? What was something that was fun or just neat about him? What was something he liked to do?

• 1:32:23Speaker 01

  Well, he loved Indian stuff, you know, and he had a, so he, he had, he stacked the rocks and all and Indian stuff. He knew all about Chief Bowles and other, uh, Wonka Tonka. I don't know. I can't.

• 1:32:38Theo Von?

  Wampum, something like that. He knew a lot of Native American lore?

• 1:32:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, he loved all that stuff. And, and so where they lived, they had all arrowheads and spearheads. He found that stuff all the time. So that's what he was really doing. But he was a great artist. He could draw anything, you know? So I thought that, but he was, uh, he had asthma. And so because he had to take medicine, it made his bones brittle. And he, uh, he just wasn't gonna get big and strong, you know, it just didn't, when he worked out, it didn't really do anything.

• 1:33:08Theo Von?

  We all took all the bigness too. If he was the last one, y'all didn't leave any bigness for him.

• 1:33:12Speaker 01

  That's what I thought. I thought maybe we took all the big because.

• 1:33:15Theo Von?

  Yeah, you took all of it.

• 1:33:16Speaker 01

  Man, he wanted to be, I could have cared less, but he wanted to be big so bad.

• 1:33:21Theo Von?

  Uh, and what about Mike? What was something that Mike liked to do? What kind of music did he listen to?

• 1:33:26Speaker 01

  Oh, he liked, uh, Metallica and, uh, uh, ACDC and, uh.

• 1:33:34Theo Von?

  Did y'all ever go to any concerts together?

• 1:33:35Speaker 01

  Oh, always. A lot of concerts together, yeah.

• 1:33:38Theo Von?

  What was one y'all went to?

• 1:33:40Speaker 01

  Uh, ZZ Top. Loved them. Uh.

• 1:33:44Theo Von?

  But those about rock. Isn't that ACDC?

• 1:33:47Speaker 01

  Uh, we went to a Foghat concert and I think the band that warmed up for him was, uh, I am just a cowboy, rode on stereo with the Starry Nights, Campfire Lights. What was that song? The Cowboy.

• 1:34:01Theo Von?

  Thin Lizzy?

• 1:34:02Speaker 01

  Thin Lizzy.

• 1:34:03Theo Von?

  Thin, what is it? Thin Lizzy's?

• 1:34:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was a great concert.

• 1:34:07Theo Von?

  Cowboy song by Dan Lizzie. I haven't heard that. I gotta listen to that.

• 1:34:10Speaker 01

  Well, that was, oh, that's a great song. And that was gonna be Dave's song. See, I picked the music, but with Kerry picked his song, but I

• 1:34:17Theo Von?

  For the walkout music?

• 1:34:18Speaker 01

  I always did the music, but and I picked that song for Dave, but he said, no, Kev, I'm a cowboy. And he picked, when I die, I may not go to Texas. It was nothing. You want music.

• 1:34:31Theo Von?

  By Tonya Tucker?

• 1:34:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I mean,

• 1:34:33Theo Von?

  Good God.

• 1:34:34Speaker 01

  But it was terrible for Go to the Ring, too.

• 1:34:36Theo Von?

  Sure it was, dude.

• 1:34:38Speaker 01

  You wanna sound like a, an interesting sound, like a crescendo and you'll kick the door open and lights and all. So you don't want something like that.

• 1:34:46Theo Von?

  Some damn Shania Twain or whatever.

• 1:34:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:49Theo Von?

  Yeah, that's different level, man. Um, okay. And so, and Jack had passed away before you. Um, what about Kerry? What's something you remember about him that you like, like?

• 1:34:59Speaker 01

  Shoot, Kerry was just, uh,

• 1:35:01Theo Von?

  Were y'all the closest, probably?

• 1:35:04Speaker 01

  Well, me, Dave and Kerry were real close. And then Mike was our baby, you know, so we were, we were really close. And but, you know, Chris was a little bit, I told you about the divorce thing when I was a kid. One thing my mother insisted on my dad was that my dad not, uh, disciplined Mike and Chris like he did me, Dave and Kerry, because he used a leather strap on us, you know? But I mean, we're boys, you know, and we got

• 1:35:29Theo Von?

  It was kind of common back then.

• 1:35:30Speaker 01

  It was, yeah, yeah. And,

• 1:35:32Theo Von?

  My principal beat me in the office one time, couple of times, I think. It's back when your principal could spank you.

• 1:35:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've been beaten there, too. I mean, you know, we had it coming. Yeah, we had it coming.

• 1:35:42Theo Von?

  Did we? I don't know.

• 1:35:44Speaker 01

  Well, you know, if we got away with it, and we just done it again, you know?

• 1:35:48Theo Von?

  Look, he got me. I got away, I got over on him more times than he got over on me. I'll tell you that, Mr. Brady.

• 1:35:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think same with mine. I had a principal like that. He'd come down from in the office and he'd, he'd open the, your classroom door and say, who parked on my grass? You know, if the, if, if any car was touching grass, it was his grass and you had to move it. You know, he was really obnoxious guy.

• 1:36:14Theo Von?

  Did you guys finish high school, you and your brothers?

• 1:36:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:36:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, we did. We, uh, of course, I hated school. I hated it. I don't know if you did or not.

• 1:36:24Theo Von?

  Oh, if I could wrestle good, I wouldn't like damn spelling.

• 1:36:27Speaker 01

  I wasn't wrestling then, you know, I was a little kid. I had to do my homework and all that stuff, but I had to listen to all that junk in class and about Suzie has two dresses and, you know, all that crap. I, I couldn't stand it. I was bored to death. And I, I just, and I, I, and I, I'm not a very good parent. I told you, I just, when I see little boys, I say, I hated school. I wouldn't, I don't blame you for not wanting to go. It's, you know, there's a lot better stuff to do. You got a dog, you got a BB gun, and that's all you need, you know?

• 1:36:56Theo Von?

  Um, when you think back, um, what about your own parenting? So you have four children?

• 1:37:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:03Theo Von?

  Okay. And what are they like? You have two boys and two girls?

• 1:37:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, two boys and two girls. Well, my oldest two are daughters, Kristen and Jill. And, uh, Kristen is, uh, is always been my soft spot. I love her so much and she's brilliant. She does everything for us, you know, she's so, she's so incre- and she's such a good foster mom. Or, uh, uh, she, in Hawaii, she'd take the kids for the, the police would, what do you call the, uh, IDA? The, uh, when the parent, when-

• 1:37:39Theo Von?

  Oh, CPS?

• 1:37:39Speaker 01

  CPS. She would get those kids and then for foster parents, she, they loved her there. And so, so many people that loved her in Hawaii, so many kids. And then there's my daughter Jill. Well, she was way more like me. She's like, she can swim endlessly. I, I've swam out to reefs before that were way too far for anybody with a boat. She'll swim out there without flippers and go down and dive with lobsters with me and, and grab them with their hands too. I mean, I'm using gloves, but she's just, she's something else. She could, she can run like a deer. She, um, and she's, she loves her, and her, her sons are all athletic. I could go overboard talking about her.

• 1:38:23Speaker 01

  She's such an athlete. And, and then there's Ross and Marsh.

• 1:38:26Theo Von?

  And Ross and Marshall got into wrestling?

• 1:38:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:29Theo Von?

  Did, were you scared when they got into wrestling or did you have any thoughts about it? Or that's just what they wanted to do?

• 1:38:34Speaker 01

  Well, not with Ross. I knew Ross is, he's been a ass kicker his whole life and he's fights easily, you know, and that's not usually, there's not much for a man like that to do in today's world except wrestling. And so Ross is gonna be good there. But Marshall, I did worry about him because Marshall was a super athlete. He went out to Hawaii and he was the quarterback and he was throwing the bombs. The newspapers were just, people just want a picture of how far he could throw the football. He was, he was just a great athlete, but I worried about him getting that sun, that heat stroke out there, you know, because he had a heat issue one time. So that's the only time I've ever been worried of him, worried of him because they're both like

• 1:39:19Speaker 01

  bulls, you know, they're strong and healthy and I wouldn't worry about it. And either way, they, with their wrestling now too, they, they know what they need to know. They're, it's, I believe that the wrestling business is about to really explode because it was just like this when my brothers and I got started. And when this COVID got in, they had to wrestle in empty buildings. I don't think I could have ever done that.

• 1:39:42Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:42Speaker 01

  But it made it where the people really have not seen them explode yet. They've, they've worked for a little, they went to Japan and wrestled and they worked for a little operation in MLW. And now they're with AEW.

• 1:40:00Theo Von?

  Oh, really? AEW has been popping off, dude. I keep hearing about it all the time now.

• 1:40:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're, they're gonna, they're really gonna be special, I believe.

• 1:40:08Theo Von?

  And will they tag team?

• 1:40:10Speaker 01

  They've done both. They, they work tag teams right now though. I mean, it's a lot of, you know, there's, tag teams are such an interesting, exciting match, you know, because the guys don't have time to get a hold. But they can do either one. They can wrestle singles, they can work a tag. But probably.

• 1:40:29Speaker 01

  They'll work a tag team. As a matter of fact, I don't want to talk out of school, but we have a neighbor in Bernie and it's Bill Goldberg, the guy that wrestled at WWE.

• 1:40:39Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:40:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, he, he, he's a Texas boy, I think, isn't he, or Oklahoma?

• 1:40:45Theo Von?

  Bill Goldberg, yeah, I think he's from Oklahoma. Where's he from? Norman? No. Tulsa, Oklahoma. Um, did you ever fight Rocky Johnson?

• 1:40:54Speaker 01

  Uh, he, I was too young, but my first black and white pictures, uh, I was trying to flex, you know, and I've never, I didn't know, you know, I didn't expect to have muscles, but that's Rocky. And so Rocky was really good at flexing. And so Rocky taught me everything about flexing, you know? He was standing right behind the camera and doing this and doing all these things. And whatever Rocky did, I did for the picture, you know?

• 1:41:19Theo Von?

  I know. So you learned a little from him then, huh?

• 1:41:22Speaker 01

  Rocky's son is The Rock, you know?

• 1:41:25Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah, Dwayne Johnson.

• 1:41:27Speaker 01

  And so we would like, that's, that's actually the picture.

• 1:41:30Theo Von?

  That's hilarious, dude.

• 1:41:32Speaker 01

  But little Rock was there.

• 1:41:34Theo Von?

  Oh, was he?

• 1:41:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. He's, he's a little boy. I mean, he was the cutest little kid.

• 1:41:40Theo Von?

  People say that Rocky was the ni- is a, is a very nice guy. He's still alive?

• 1:41:43Speaker 01

  He is. I, I don't know. I don't know about that. But, but Rock was a great guy too. I mean, he, he was a, we, he was a little younger than us, you know, so we'd wrestle him and, uh, like, like his, uh, we'd frustrate him and boy, to see if he'd have the courage to, to pep up with us. And he would too.

• 1:42:02Theo Von?

  Who was Dwayne Johnson, The Rock?

• 1:42:03Speaker 01

  He would fi- he would want to fight.

• 1:42:06Speaker 01

  He's, that pup would snit, will bite you. He was a beautiful little kid, yeah.

• 1:42:10Theo Von?

  Uh, y'all might've put the, y'all might've excited, y'all might've put that fire in him, man. Um, what about Bruiser Brody? Remember him?

• 1:42:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. He was something else. Smart guy. Uh, on his workout, workout routine, he would just put on leather gloves and lay into that heavy bag. And it thickened his chest. And, I mean, he did bench presses too, but he had an awesome bench press. But also his body was built so powerfully because he had a, I think he worked out different. He did a lot of strikes, you know, and that thickens joints and all. It made him, makes you have kind of that raw strength, you know? And he'd have that. If you want to talk about Puerto Rico, well, I can tell you too that

• 1:42:53Theo Von?

  What happened?

• 1:42:54Speaker 01

  Well, he was killed in Puerto Rico.

• 1:42:56Theo Von?

  Oh, he was killed in Puerto Rico?

• 1:42:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:58Theo Von?

  I didn't know that.

• 1:42:59Speaker 01

  Well, gosh, I never told this story, but I could tell you this one too. But he was, Brody got, was real temperamental and he would get pissed off real easy. Well, the Puerto Rico wrestling office owed him about 80 grand. And so my dad was president of the alliance back then. And so we worked out a payout schedule where they'd pay him a little each show. But Brody got to that show and he wouldn't work for him because they owed him that money. And so dad worked it out where he would come back and boy, when they came back, they sold out San Juan. And it was a great crowd where Brody wanted his money that night because he saw that they had it.

• 1:43:41Speaker 01

  But you know, there are other things that they've, you know, and that's all that started. That's all that started. So he wanted his money and wanted to be, and so he kicked the guy's ass, you know? And the guy's a little invader, you know, forgot his name. But man, this is an ugly story too, but the guy who, and so they got in a fight and the guy, Brody beat him up and he knifed Brody in the shower. But

• 1:44:16Theo Von?

  Damn in the shower.

• 1:44:17Speaker 01

  This is the kind of guy, I mean, the guy that did it, just about a week before that, his little daughter drowned in his swimming. So he's on edge, you know, and so, so I can't really, I know them both, you know? And they're both men that want to earn their, a living, you know, and it's sad.

• 1:44:39Theo Von?

  Oh, that's him, Jose Gonzalez?

• 1:44:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, life is, you know, like I said, we suffer, we find the beautiful moments in between those ugly ones, you know?

• 1:44:50Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:51Speaker 01

  It's good, it's got good and bad.

• 1:44:54Theo Von?

  Yeah, I um, I'm trying to think if there was something else that you talked about using medicinal marijuana. How did you get into that? And then how did it help you? Do you feel like?

• 1:45:05Speaker 01

  Well.

• 1:45:06Theo Von?

  If you want to talk about it, if you don't want to, that's fine.

• 1:45:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did. Well, um, well, I have a lot of knee surgeries too. And, uh, and you can take a pain pill, but if you do, then it's going to take an edge off of it. And so you'll want to take more. And if you do, you're going to get in a problem. And so I didn't want pain pills. So I wanted a natural pain relief. And so I tried cannabis and I liked it. And, uh, it was, it's, it was just good all around for me. It was good. And so I actually grow it out in Kauai and, uh, and so that's how I, you know, have, have it, you know, I'm so grateful for it too.

• 1:45:49Speaker 01

  I mean, I hope they don't make it illegal again because it was, it's like a wonder drug to me. It really was.

• 1:45:57Theo Von?

  Did you ever get involved in any other type of plant medicine or anything like that out there? I know there's like ayahuasca ceremonies and stuff like that. We've done, I've done that before. And a lot of our listeners have, um, I think have considered it or tried it.

• 1:46:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a stuff called, um, uh, oh, it's a, what's the name of that? Ka, kiff? No. What? Ka, kava, kava. Yeah, kava root's good for you. I say good for you. It's, I read about the contraindications on that and it's kind of, it can make your skin like, uh,

• 1:46:34Speaker 01

  have, what do you call those things? Shingles?

• 1:46:37Theo Von?

  Scales or whatever?

• 1:46:38Speaker 01

  Scales like, yeah.

• 1:46:40Theo Von?

  Make a damn dragon out of you, dude.

• 1:46:41Speaker 01

  I guess that's if you do too much of it or something. I tried it. It's not bad for you.

• 1:46:46Theo Von?

  But have you ever done like ayahuasca or like a plant medicine ceremony?

• 1:46:49Speaker 01

  I've never even heard of that.

• 1:46:50Theo Von?

  Yeah?

• 1:46:51Speaker 01

  Ayahuasca.

• 1:46:53Theo Von?

  Ayahuasca.

• 1:46:54Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:46:54Theo Von?

  It's like a medicine that you take and you kind of sit in a group of the shaman and it's usually it's like a two day ceremony. And you kind of go through these bouts of like, um, it's kind of like an emotional journey that you go on. It's really fascinating.

• 1:47:07Speaker 01

  Like a sweat lodge kind of thing, maybe?

• 1:47:09Theo Von?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:47:09Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:47:10Theo Von?

  Really, really fascinating if you ever get curious about it.

• 1:47:13Speaker 01

  I got a friend in Israel that writes comedy shows, that writes soap operas. And he does that. He goes to Africa and South America and finds indigenous people and does stuff like that with them. And he does, I mean, he's a wealthy guy, so he does all.

• 1:47:29Theo Von?

  Aaron Rodgers, we know who it is. Um, what's your physical routine like today for yourself, Kevin?

• 1:47:36Speaker 01

  Physical routine?

• 1:47:37Theo Von?

  Yeah. Do you have like a daily routine or?

• 1:47:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:42Speaker 01

  Well, Solomon comes in my bedroom about eight forty-five or nine o'clock and.

• 1:47:48Theo Von?

  That's your grandson?

• 1:47:49Speaker 01

  Uh huh. And, and we go either catch lizards or snakes or frogs. We've caught, uh, we've caught four rattlesnakes on our ranch. Last year and we caught king snakes and, uh, uh, turtles, sea turtles, soft shell turtles. Uh, you name it. That little boy and I have so much fun together and, uh, and he's the, I love him to death. And, uh.

• 1:48:16Theo Von?

  Does he remind you any, one of your brothers in particular at all or no?

• 1:48:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, he reminds me of Marshall and Ross. It's like I'm able to be dad again, you know? It's like, uh, well, I, I enjoyed being their father so much. I really love my sons and my daughters. But having Solomon again is just like having Marshall again, you know? And he's got Ross in him too, though, you know, it's beautiful. For anybody that's wondering, Kevin Von Erich, I consider myself the luckiest guy in the world. I mean, I know for that movie coming out, you may not believe it, but I am happy all day, every day. And I mean, I look forward to tomorrow and, uh. I couldn't ask for a better way that things turned out and to bitch about my brothers dying

• 1:49:01Speaker 01

  too young. The truth is, we had a great time. We had a great time a long time.

• 1:49:05Theo Von?

  Hell, yeah, we're still talking about how good the time was.

• 1:49:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:08Theo Von?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 1:49:09Speaker 01

  So I'm not, I can't call it a bad day.

• 1:49:12Theo Von?

  Is there any message you think that your father, brothers, like, felt like that you think that they would want to have given, but they didn't get a chance to? Is there ever anything like that, that?

• 1:49:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. I want to tell you something. You know, we watched my dad wrestle when we were little boys. And we had an idea to make a wrestling show that would be different. It would be two different, two hot cameras the whole time. So nothing's going to look bad on television. Use just the best camera shot. It would have done some, some extra time editing, but, you know, we wanted wrestling to be, instead of the 20 and 30 minute matches, one hour time limits. We thought 20 minutes was plenty of time for a match to just, and pick up the pace, you know, and, and just make it more intense. And I think our shows were like that. I'm proud of them. I'm proud of all of our shows. And my brothers, and

• 1:50:06Speaker 01

  I, especially Dave and I, and Dad had a great idea one time. And it was going to be to put our new style of wrestling on the show on them. And it was great. We had a great TV rating. And Vince offered us a big part of his, half of his company up there to come in with him. And I sat there with my dad and I said, nope, what's in it for us? And you never disagree with family in a business meeting. But I was thinking, he's got everything we need, Dad, everything we need. But Dad wouldn't go, wouldn't go with him.

• 1:50:46Theo Von?

  To partner with WWE, you mean?

• 1:50:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:49Theo Von?

  Wow.

• 1:50:49Speaker 01

  And they're gonna let Dad keep San Antonio and Dallas, too.

• 1:50:55Theo Von?

  But who knows, huh?

• 1:50:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:57Theo Von?

  Who knows what would have happened?

• 1:50:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's because there's many a slip twicks the cup in the lip, you know, but I mean, we would have been ready. We would have jumped all over that because we're little boys that had seen it for our whole life and we just knew how to make it better. We'd watch the NFL, you know, and the slow motion, the collisions and all and, uh, and consorts with the lasers and all the, the music, the way it fills you out of your chair, you know? We had it, we had how we wanted to do it. So, uh, you know, that didn't come about, but we had a great time aiming at it.

• 1:51:33Theo Von?

  Yeah, and who knows, maybe things would have been different, you know?

• 1:51:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:36Theo Von?

  I mean, you guys, yeah, I mean, I just, yeah, I mean, on behalf of like, yeah, any kid that was like me, I mean, the second you guys, they put the name on the screen or it's just, man, it was awesome, dude. You felt like everything was possible. You could fucking rip the drywall of the living room. You could fucking do whatever you wanted, dude. You knew mom was coming home in an hour and a half, but you had a 90 minutes till she got there where you were free as a bird, boy. I'd break every damn chair we had and then spend the next two hours gluing them bitches back together for dinner, dude.

• 1:52:09Speaker 01

  You would have loved to step in the business. I know you liked it. You would have loved it.

• 1:52:14Theo Von?

  Well, Kevin, man, thanks so much, dude.

• 1:52:16Speaker 01

  We got a show tonight.

• 1:52:17Theo Von?

  Yeah, we got a show tonight.

• 1:52:18Speaker 01

  I'd love to take you to dinner, but you're busy.

• 1:52:20Theo Von?

  Yeah, tonight I'll be busy, but you know what? I think I'm gonna be down to, um, Austin in, uh, in September.

• 1:52:29Speaker 01

  Oh, you are? Shoot, call me up, man.

• 1:52:31Theo Von?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 1:52:32Speaker 01

  I'll show you Texas.

• 1:52:33Theo Von?

  When I am, I'll come out and see the ranch, man.

• 1:52:35Speaker 01

  Do it.

• 1:52:36Theo Von?

  That would be cool.

• 1:52:37Speaker 01

  That would be, man.

• 1:52:38Theo Von?

  What plants do you guys have out there?

• 1:52:39Speaker 01

  What plants?

• 1:52:40Theo Von?

  Yeah, do you plant any avocados or anything like that here in Texas or no?

• 1:52:43Speaker 01

  Oh, no, no, that's, it won't, it won't grow in the, in, uh, the subtropics, but I say that, I went to Israel, you know, it's on what, the 33rd degree latitude from the equator. I mean, that's way far north. They have mangoes there, papayas. I couldn't believe it.

• 1:53:00Theo Von?

  Yeah, they got.

• 1:53:01Speaker 01

  Can't grow that in Texas.

• 1:53:02Theo Von?

  Yeah, you can't grow that in Texas, huh?

• 1:53:06Theo Von?

  Bud, you can grow, you can grow a batch of Von Ericks, dude, that are pretty damn impressive. I'll, I'll say that.

• 1:53:11Speaker 01

  I sure can.

• 1:53:12Theo Von?

  Um, Kevin, thanks so much for your time, man. Just thanks for you and your family, just, uh, just all the enjoyment and excitement and invigoration and possibility over the years is, I think it's inspired a lot of people and was so much fun as a kid, just fucking, when that, when you guys came on the screen, just getting to be a Von Eric for a few minutes, man.

• 1:53:30Speaker 01

  It was fun, man. It was a lot of fun. I'll think about it. And you know, when, when you get some stress built up, you know, you could just get in the ring and kick ass.

• 1:53:41Theo Von?

  That's a motto for life, guys.

• 1:53:43Speaker 01

  Those days are gone.

• 1:53:44Theo Von?

  But they're pretty close in our minds, you know?

• 1:53:47Speaker 01

  Yep, right there.

• 1:53:47Theo Von?

  You can still feel them right on the edge of your skin sometimes.

• 1:53:50Speaker 01

  Dang right.

• 1:53:50Theo Von?

  Dude, I'll fuck, I'll beat the shit out of somebody in the lobby here if we need to.

• 1:53:54Speaker 01

  Well, let's find a quiet spot and I'll take it down somewhere and we can make a little news.

• 1:54:01Theo Von?

  Kevin Von Eric, thanks so much, man.

• 1:54:03Speaker 01

  My pleasure, buddy.