Armchair Anonymous: Scams II

Dax and Monica talk to Armcherries! In today's episode, Armcherries tell us about a time they were scammed. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous. I'm Randall Shepard, joined by Lilly Padman, and today we have scams part two.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Scams are sad.

• 0:09Dax Shepard?

  They are sad. Sad warning.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, but they're interesting and they're informative.

• 0:14Dax Shepard?

  They're very informative.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  One of them specifically. I was like, that could definitely be me.

• 0:18Dax Shepard?

  They're great cautionary tales. Every time I open my email, there's two dozen attempts to scam me. My texts, they're now attempting to scam me.

• 0:26Speaker 01

  The world is out to get you.

• 0:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, the world is a vampire. Please enjoy scams part two. This episode is supported by Helix.

• 0:38Speaker 01

  Dax, is there anything better than crawling into a perfect bed on a cold fall night? Candlelit, hoodie on, maybe even some rain outside. The dream.

• 0:49Dax Shepard?

  That's the dream. You just described one of my ideal fall nights.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  I know, and thanks to Helix, my bed actually lives up to the vibe. All I had to do was take the Helix Sleep Quiz, and within two minutes, they matched me to a mattress built for exactly how I sleep. I have a midnight mattress. It also has cooling technology, which I really

• 1:09Dax Shepard?

  Increasingly so.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  I need it. I have to have it. And I heard that you're supposed to sleep at a cold temp for optimal sleep. It's very, very helpful.

• 1:20Dax Shepard?

  She is not wrong. I have one too, and it's been such a game changer for sleep. And I love that they make it so easy. Free shipping right to your door. And with their happy with Helix guarantee, you'll get a full 365 nights to try it. A whole year to live in that cozy. They've got over 20 mattress models, so no matter how you sleep, they've got one for you.

• 1:40Speaker 01

  And it's not just us saying it. Helix has been named the most awarded mattress brand by Forbes, Wired, and more. You gotta try it for yourself.

• 1:47Dax Shepard?

  Go to helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off sitewide. That's helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off sitewide. helixsleep.com/armchair.

• 2:00Dax Shepard?

  We are supported by Walden University. You know that feeling when you've been thinking about making a move, going after the degree, the promotion, the thing you keep telling yourself you'll get to someday? Walden University is built for that moment. For over 50 years, Walden has helped working professionals get the W, the knowledge, the skills, and the confidence to create real change in their careers and communities. Their programs are designed around your life, not the other way around. With Tempo Learning, available in select programs, there are no rigid schedules or set weekly deadlines. You move at your own pace. And Walden's faculty aren't just academics. They're practitioners who bring real-world experience into everything they teach.

• 2:43Dax Shepard?

  From your first class to career coaching and beyond, Walden is your partner the whole way. Take the first step and learn at a pace that works for you. Visit walden.edu. Walden University. Set a course for change. Certified to operate by CHEV.

• 3:21Dax Shepard?

  Hi, is this Bree?

• 3:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:24Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wonderful. We don't get to talk to many Bree's.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  No, and it's an important name in Dax's life.

• 3:30Speaker 02

  I'm aware. My full name is Bree Anne, but I go by Bree.

• 3:33Dax Shepard?

  Since you were a little girl, or did that come later?

• 3:35Speaker 02

  It was when I was little and then went away for a while and then came back. Like in my 30s, I decided to reclaim my childhood nickname.

• 3:43Dax Shepard?

  I'm glad you embrace it because as you know, I hate anything multi-syllabic, maybe because Dax is privileged, but I think when people have like six, seven syllables, we gotta come up with something shorter.

• 3:54Speaker 02

  That was honestly part of it was I started to do more public stuff and meeting a lot of more people and Bree, people get it right away.

• 4:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:02Dax Shepard?

  And they'll go, oh, remember Bree Cheese.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. I never even thought about that.

• 4:06Dax Shepard?

  That's what people would do with Bree.

• 4:08Speaker 01

  Really?

• 4:08Speaker 02

  I actually say that.

• 4:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 4:11Dax Shepard?

  Because as soon as you connect some object to a person, you can remember their name a lot better.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 4:16Dax Shepard?

  Like Monica Padman and you think Lily Pad.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, or you think menstrual pad.

• 4:20Dax Shepard?

  Menstrual pad. Maxi Pad.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  I've never thought that one.

• 4:25Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so Bree, you have a, well, first of all, where are you?

• 4:27Speaker 02

  Not too far from you guys, actually. I'm in LA County. My husband doesn't want me to like give away too much exact, so I won't say the city, but not too far.

• 4:35Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you have a scamming story.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  I do. Starts back during COVID. Me and my husband, home with our kids, we have three kids. Two of them at the time are doing Zoom school in elementary school. We also have a preschooler, so life's crazy. We own a business, so like we're running a small business through COVID, where I'm home with the kids, working from home. My husband still is able to like go into the office. And so we're spending way more time at home than we ever have with our three kids. From the time we moved into this home, we knew it was going to be like our forever home, and we knew eventually we would remodel. So it becomes obvious, this is the time. We're home all the time. Like, let's make this the space we want it to be. So we have this family

• 5:19Speaker 02

  room that at the time was like an enclosed patio, no insulation, super low ceiling. It had this awful half bath that we called the toilet closet and would like hide from people when they would come over. It had like the office tile type ceiling and like a tin roof, so when it rained, it was insanely loud in there. So really just the kids used it. They watched TV, had their toys, but we didn't spend time in there as a family, even though it was a family room. We decide, okay, we're gonna do this remodel. It's a huge project. It's gonna be like half of our house getting demolished and rebuilt. We're in 2021 at this point. It's like a year of planning, architects, getting city approval, all that stuff. And then

• 6:05Speaker 02

  We're finally at the point in like the summer of twenty twenty one where we're like looking for a contractor. This idea to remodel turns out in the LA area, not a unique idea. So finding a contractor was really challenging. You know, prices were going crazy. We had refinanced our house.

• 6:22Dax Shepard?

  There was supply chain issues, lumber was a lot.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  My God, we were doing this at the same time.

• 6:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, all three of us.

• 6:28Speaker 02

  Half the labor force was missing. It was just a crazy time to like try to get anything done, but we're like, well, is there gonna be a better time? Like, maybe the world's ending, so let's just keep moving forward. So we're having a really hard time finding a contractor and like around the same time, one of our friends bought a home and immediately started remodeling. So we're like, hey, give us their contact information. Let's get in touch with them. We email them like, hey, can we set up a time to meet? You can look at our property. We'll go over the plans and get a bid from you guys. So all of that happens. It's end of September. We meet with them. It takes them some time to get a bid to us. So it's December by the time we hear back. And we're still trying to get competing bids from like a few other people.

• 7:11Speaker 02

  But literally just getting ghosted by most of them. And then the ones that we are hearing back from are giving us these like insanely expensive prices, right? So throughout this time, we're seeing this company's work because they're working on our friend's house and running into the contractor when we're over there. Like, oh, hey, got your bid? We're reviewing it. All that. We'll get back to you soon. It becomes pretty obvious in the spring that we're gonna go with this company. So we start kind of going back and forth over email, going over our questions, the contract, deciding like the exact scope of work. All this time, we're also seeing the contractor in person when we go over to our friend's house and just making like little comments like, oh, got your email.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  Like, we'll get back to you soon, whatever. We get the contract from them. And there's one thing that is a little off. They're asking for a fifty percent materials deposit to get started. And as you've mentioned already, like lumber costs at the time were just through the roof and just kept going up. So their explanation was. Well, the only way we could guarantee this price we're giving you right now is if we purchase as much of the materials right now as we can. So we need this big deposit. It makes logical sense.

• 8:26Dax Shepard?

  I had to do that. I did the same thing. Yeah. It was like, it keeps going up. So if we buy now, it's smarter than waiting. Normally, we would stagger this.

• 8:34Speaker 02

  Kind of exact thought process. We're like, well, it makes sense. We get it. We don't want to pay more by waiting. So let's go for it. So we sign the contract, send the deposit, we get on their calendar for June of twenty twenty two. And so this is like a few weeks out at this point. And they're like, okay, we're gonna deliver a bunch of materials. So we need like some space in your home. We need to be ready to move out of essentially half of our house. And we're gonna be living in the house through the construction. So we emptied the whole family room, donated all the furniture, packed up all our stuff, get rid of as much stuff as we can. And we're like moving out of our bedroom, me and my husband, because that's gonna be part of it, cleaning out the garage. So all that's done, two weeks.

• 9:18Speaker 02

  It comes to the day where the materials are gonna be delivered and nothing comes.

• 9:24Dax Shepard?

  Hmm.

• 9:25Speaker 02

  And so it's not that unheard of. There was no panic yet at this point. Maybe things got delayed. They forgot to update us. So it gets to like the end of the day and I just send an email like, hey, nothing showed up. Can you give us an update? And I have no idea why at this point I realized this, but when I'm sending the email, I notice that two different email addresses pop up. You know, my little dropdown.

• 9:48Dax Shepard?

  Oh, as you start to type in the name.

• 9:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. So it's the same beginning, but one of them is a Hotmail and one's an MSN.

• 9:54Dax Shepard?

  Neither trustworthy for me.

• 9:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree. Unless it's Gmail, uh-uh. Well, in this company, they're a little outdated. Like, it's not that weird. In talking to them, we knew that they were a little behind the times. So I'm like, oh, that's weird. Well, I'll just send the email to both of them because I didn't know which was correct. Next day, I'm walking to my kid's school because I volunteer all the time. I'm going to volunteer in the library.

• 10:20Speaker 02

  And I get a response from the contractor confused responding like, what materials are you referring to? We haven't ordered anything. It looks like we're missing some emails. Can you please advise? My heart just drops. I think at that point I knew.

• 10:39Dax Shepard?

  I'm also so confused because you were seeing them face to face. You were talking about the fact that they had submitted a bid. So now the question is, who sent the email, I guess?

• 10:47Speaker 02

  Right. I go off to volunteer, just kind of shove everything down, text my husband. I think our money was stolen. Call the contractor right now. And he's like, this whole time, it wasn't them. And this is the part that is the hardest part to tell. The part that if I think about it, like I can be back there. The feeling hitting me of this whole dream in like an instant is just gone.

• 11:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 11:13Speaker 02

  It was a huge amount of money. We'd refinance our house to like pull out equity to get the money.

• 11:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  It just felt like we had like ruined our family's future.

• 11:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, all this guilt and shame, right? Which is so unfair. You're a victim and yet you feel immediate. I'm not a good steward of all this. I'm supposed to be responsible to my family. All these shameful thoughts.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  Exactly. I'm not really a super emotional person, but in that moment, it was that shuddered sobbing just fell on the couch and was just broken for a while.

• 11:51Dax Shepard?

  So how do we think somebody was privy to the fact that you were talking to them?

• 11:56Speaker 02

  And like created this email.

• 11:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. How does all that work out? What have you come to find out?

• 12:01Speaker 02

  So after speaking to the contractor, it turned out that there was a third party in the middle of all the emails. So they were pretending to be us to the contractor and pretending to be the contractor to us. So the very first two interactions were legit. And then from that point, the email address switches from the correct one to the incorrect one. And we never noticed the scammer had told them like, oh, here's my correct email address. Don't use this old one, use this new one. So they were sending an email to some random other email address. And that way, all the emails, when we're asking questions, they're like contractor questions and needing contracts and all that.

• 12:44Speaker 02

  They were able to pull a real contract from this company that had their logo and all the language and just tweak things as they needed to, to make sure that we kept everything in writing over email. All the detailed stuff was all done over email. And there's lots of little hints in there to like, make sure we didn't reach out in person. And I think had this been any other contractor, like if we picked some random person and not been seeing them and had this built in trust, because they were down the street, like we knew them. Once the fog kind of lifted, there were more red flags that we just attributed to, oh, they're in a rush, little things like that.

• 13:28Dax Shepard?

  How do you start responding? How do you start figuring out how this third entity entered the equation?

• 13:34Speaker 02

  It was really just at that point where we talked to the real contractor.

• 13:38Dax Shepard?

  Did someone hack your email or theirs and was reading all the emails and then started putting this together?

• 13:44Speaker 02

  They hacked the contractor's email, we're pretty sure. It turns out there's not actually a lot to be done about this. It's a really smart con because of that time lag as we sign the contracts and the money. And then they're like, okay, well, here's the date for when you should expect materials to show up.

• 14:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  Once we investigated with the bank and police reports and all that stuff, they traced the money. But by that point, it had moved through multiple accounts that had then been closed. And eventually ended up somewhere in Eastern Europe.

• 14:16Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. You read about these scam complexes in Eastern Europe where they are like data centers where all they do is this.

• 14:28Speaker 02

  So you weren't able to get any of it back? Or really find out any concrete anything.

• 14:34Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  And I have to mention the tax cuts that happened during Trump's first term. One of the little things they snuck into that bill was a change in how you can write off losses. And so before that point, a loss like this, we would have been able to write it off and not pay tax on it. But that bill changed that. So the only losses that you can deduct now are like from natural disasters. And ever since that point, this type of fraud has been hugely on the rise because the government's no longer on the hook for that money.

• 15:09Dax Shepard?

  They're not incentivized to crack down because they're not eating the tax liability.

• 15:13Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 15:14Dax Shepard?

  Oh, man.

• 15:15Speaker 02

  So that one really hurt. That was like, seriously, we have to pay tax on this money that's gone?

• 15:22Dax Shepard?

  And how long was it a searing pain in your side? Like, how long before this dissipates? And you find your way back to like, okay, we're gonna live, not the end of the world.

• 15:32Speaker 02

  Thankfully, and I will completely acknowledge, this is a really privileged problem to have, right? Like, oh, my poor remodel. We were still able to borrow more money to be able to move forward and get the remodel done. So it was probably a few months of a pretty deep depression, honestly. It was just like going from this really high point in my life, in our lives, to just kind of feeling like it all fell apart all of a sudden. But then I think once we were able to start moving forward again, and thankfully, we had each other to lean on and we had our kids to sort of be like, well, you gotta fucking get it together.

• 16:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, they don't care much about these things. They're great in that way. They're only in today.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:18Speaker 02

  This was kind of a final test, I feel like. I've had all these weird little signs to submit this story to you guys and just put it out there and like, let it all go, right? Like, let go of the shame and, and maybe hopefully help someone else.

• 16:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, see, I think anyone who's currently in an email exchange with a contractor talking about a bid will have learned through this that they should get on the phone and get in person, maybe.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  Shout out to all the millennials who don't like getting on the phone because that is 100% me. I will avoid a phone call at all costs. Sometimes you gotta get on the freaking phone.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  But that's so hard because you were seeing them. There's zero reason for you to have. Thought anything.

• 16:57Dax Shepard?

  And you red flagged. Yeah.

• 16:59Speaker 01

  I'm so sorry that happened.

• 17:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Well, how did it turn out? Is the new living room nice?

• 17:04Speaker 02

  The new living room is lovely. We built it all around the ability to have a nice big Christmas tree right in the middle. And so we've now celebrated two Christmases with our big Christmas tree.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  Oh, good.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  So real quick, I gotta say, I'm not really into the sim. I know you guys love the sim. I talk about it all the time, but I had not listened to Armchair Anonymous when it first started. I was like, I don't have time for more content.

• 17:28Dax Shepard?

  That's how we feel.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  Last year, I finally gave in, started listening to it sometimes with my kids. I'm like, okay, this is funny. This is a good show. And so at the beginning of this year, I decided to go all the way back to 2022 and start them from the beginning. And like the third episode in is your guys' first scam episode. So I listened to it in January of this year. I was like, oh, my God, if they ever do this prompt again, I guess I'll have to submit this story.

• 17:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 17:58Speaker 02

  And then literally the next month, the prompt comes up. And I told my husband, and he really was not into me doing this. He's supportive, but he was like, really? Do you want to air out this story for like the whole world? But I was like, I have to. Like, the world is telling me I have to.

• 18:16Dax Shepard?

  Very sim. Whether there's a sim or not, it's still sim.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 18:19Dax Shepard?

  And I gotta say, on the scale of embarrassment, I think the harder ones are like when you've come to trust a person in real life, and then they betray you, and they were always going to betray you. Yours is pretty low on the, I think, anything that you could feel dumb about because you weren't even looking at anyone, you know?

• 18:36Speaker 01

  I don't see how anyone wouldn't have ended up in this situation if they were in your shoes.

• 18:41Speaker 02

  I knew you guys would make me feel better about it. But I'll tell you, at the time, we felt pretty dumb.

• 18:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  This is so cool. Thank you guys so much. Quick shout out to my daughter who's turning 16 next week. She's gonna listen to this with me when it comes out. My husband and my fellow Armchair Becky.

• 18:59Dax Shepard?

  Well, shout out Becky. Happy birthday, daughter. All right. Take care.

• 19:04Speaker 02

  Bye.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  Scams are mean.

• 19:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, they're not nice.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  I gotta shout out my contractor, Bill. He's just so nice. He didn't scam me. In fact, he's like losing money on me.

• 19:14Dax Shepard?

  You can make more money just being upfront.

• 19:25Dax Shepard?

  We get support by Peloton. You know that feeling when you're spiraling over a problem and you just can't figure it out? When that happens to me, I need a change of pace. And I've found that running is the best way. It takes my brain out of the driver's seat and I come back with a fresh perspective. Running can be freeing and cathartic, and Peloton helps you feel all of that. And now that feeling fits wherever you need it with the new Peloton Tread Flex. It's movable and foldable, designed to fit your life. So next time you feel stuck, you can go for a run literally anywhere, whether that's in your office, living room, or even the attic. Plus, they have classes with expert instructors and programs to meet you at any level and keep you moving. Let yourself run.

• 20:09Dax Shepard?

  Explore the new Peloton Tread Flex at onepeloton.com.

• 20:14Speaker 03

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• 20:51Dax Shepard?

  Is it Lee?

• 20:52Speaker 04

  It's Leah.

• 20:53Dax Shepard?

  Leah. Your name always scares me when I see it. I'm gonna be honest.

• 20:58Speaker 04

  It could go either way. It's a common one that's confused a lot.

• 21:01Dax Shepard?

  Well, let me ask you, can it go another way? Or is the H always Leah? You could educate me now. Or some Lees, or maybe I'm getting confused with L-E-I-G-H?

• 21:10Speaker 04

  I feel like H should always be Leah, but I do get Lee a lot. So there's gotta be some people out there spelling it with H. I can't be the only one.

• 21:19Dax Shepard?

  Where's all this confusion is coming from? Where are you, Leah?

• 21:21Speaker 04

  I am in Fishers, Indiana.

• 21:23Dax Shepard?

  Okay, Fishers, Indiana. Where is that?

• 21:26Speaker 04

  It's like a suburb right outside of Indianapolis.

• 21:28Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay. Somewhere on that big loop?

• 21:30Speaker 04

  Yes, right outside the Upper East corner of the loop.

• 21:35Dax Shepard?

  For people who don't know, when you're coming south from Michigan through Indiana, you're presented with this loop and you can either go east or west and you don't know. You don't know as a Michigander. They're conceivably the same length, but the traffic will certainly be different.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  Interesting. That's very, that's metaphorical.

• 21:51Dax Shepard?

  Oh, true. Sure, sure.

• 21:53Speaker 04

  We never know how long that loop is gonna take.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 21:56Dax Shepard?

  You just don't know. Play the loop lottery. Okay, so Leah, you have been scammed or you scammed somebody? We don't know. We've not yet had a scammer, but it could happen.

• 22:04Speaker 04

  I was scammed.

• 22:05Dax Shepard?

  Okay, I'm so sorry. Please tell us.

• 22:07Speaker 04

  Okay, so this story takes place in 2016. I am pregnant with my first baby. And something to know about me is that I'm a very type A person. So I took on pregnancy like it was a checklist. One of the things I knew I needed to do before baby's arrival was to schedule a newborn photographer. You're supposed to get your newborn photos done 10 days after.

• 22:32Dax Shepard?

  That's the sweet spot?

• 22:33Speaker 04

  That's supposed to be the sweet spot. It's one of the most cuddly and bendable and sleepy to get the cute poses. Of course, what does one do in 2016? But I get onto Facebook.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:43Speaker 04

  And I make a post to my family and friends. Does anyone have any recommendations? What do you guys think? And really quickly, I get a message back from my cousin. And she's like, hey, I used to work with this one girl. Super sweet. She quit her job to pursue photography full-time. She's super nice. I think you'll love her. Reach out. So I go to her Facebook page. I go to her website. She has glowing reviews. She's a mom to two small kids. She volunteers her photography to, you know, local hospitals. And I'm like, okay, this person's great. Reach out. She calls me pretty quickly. And we have a great conversation. She's super nice. Going over all the pricing packages.

• 23:27Speaker 04

  And she's like, hey, right now I'm actually offering a promotion where if you pay for your newborn session in full, I'll actually give you a maternity session for free. And I'm like, hard pass on the maternity session?

• 23:41Dax Shepard?

  Sure. I don't want a stranger in there.

• 23:43Speaker 04

  Well, I just wasn't feeling beautiful at that time. I didn't need to remember my double chin I was having at that time. So I was like, could I just get a newborn session at a discount? And she's like, yeah, sure. Knocks a little bit off the price and then sends me her Zelle info. I pay her.

• 23:59Dax Shepard?

  Really quick, did it seem expensive, modest? Where did the price come in for you?

• 24:03Speaker 04

  It was a little more than I was hoping to spend, but her pictures were good and she was highly recommended. With the discount, it was like, oh, well, this is exactly where I wanted to be.

• 24:13Dax Shepard?

  You have shopping math.

• 24:14Speaker 04

  So I go ahead and send her the payment. And mind you, I have like another trimester to go. I'm like really ahead of the game. So I check it off, put it out of my mind. Well, 39 weeks rolls around, reach out, hey, can we schedule something? I hear nothing. 40 weeks, reach out, call, message, nothing. 41 weeks, I go and deliver my baby. It is a rough delivery. Had something called a third degree tear. I don't recommend it. Oh, I don't like the sound of that.

• 24:45Dax Shepard?

  That's worse than a second degree tear, presumably?

• 24:47Speaker 04

  It is. Goes up to four. Four is the absolute worst. So don't.

• 24:52Dax Shepard?

  Don't go to four.

• 24:53Speaker 04

  So don't get that. Takes me a couple of days, needless to say, before I reach out. I'm home, I send her a picture of my baby. I'm like, hey, here's my beautiful baby. Can we please schedule something? And she replies and she's like, oh, my God, so sorry. Yes, I've been busy. Let's schedule for this day. 9:00 AM, here's the address to you there. So again, I'm gonna make sure I'm prepared for this session, right? So I stay up all night feeding this newborn baby like every two hours. She's gonna get a feeding right before we leave and she's gonna be super well fed and happy.

• 25:28Dax Shepard?

  Dossel.

• 25:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, for this session. So I do, I get like no sleep, but by God, she is fed and we're leaving, packing the diaper bag, getting ready to go. Well, I get a text message as soon as we're leaving and it's from the photographer and she's like, I'm so sorry, my toddler just fell down the stairs. I think she has injured herself. I need to take her to the emergency room to get her checked out. I can't meet you this morning. And of course, I'm like, absolutely. No problem. Take care of your kid. Let me know. And she's like, if everything checks out, I'll call you and maybe we can meet later today. Hours go by. I don't hear anything. Late afternoon, I reach out to her and I'm like, hey, how is your daughter? Is everything okay? And she sends back this long message about how horrible the day's been.

• 26:14Speaker 04

  You know, it's taking forever to see a doctor. They are still waiting on x-rays. Yada, yada, yada. And I'm just like, no worries. We can reschedule for a few days later. But for some reason, and I can't tell you why, but I just feel in my gut that I'm not getting the full story. So I feed my baby, give her to my husband, get my very broken postpartum mask into the car, and I'm driving to this studio. Oh. I just need to go. Wow. And I need to find out what's going on because I just feel wrong. So I drive the 30 minutes to the studio. Never been there. And I get there and it is indeed a photography studio. But the name on the door is not her name.

• 26:59Speaker 04

  There's no one there, but there's a phone number listed. I call the phone number and the owner of the studio answers and I'm like, hey, give her a short rundown of the story. I'm supposed to meet this photographer at your studio today. Do you know her? And she's like, yes, I do indeed know her. She used to rent photography space and my studio, but she quit paying me. I asked her for my key back. She hasn't given me my keys. I just had to have all my locks replaced on my doors. Oh, boy. So I'm like, great. Any chance you're free to do a newborn photography session?

• 27:34Dax Shepard?

  Good. You pivoted, yeah.

• 27:35Speaker 04

  And she's like, no, really busy. Oh, okay. Can't help you. I'm like, well, do you think I'll at least get my money back? And she's like, doubt it, but good luck to you. And so at this point, I'm sleep deprived, hormonal, and I'm just losing my mind. All I want to do is have my little newborn baby's photo taken. So I call my husband and I'm hysterical trying to grasp the ridiculousness of the situation. So I reach out to this woman when I get home and I'm just like, talk to the owner of the studio that you You told me we were going to, doesn't seem legit. I don't think you're being honest with me. Can I please have my money back? And she doubles down on her lie. And she's like, how dare you tell me that I'm a liar? This is a family emergency. You don't know what you're talking about.

• 28:20Speaker 04

  So I'm just like, you know what, lady? Can I just have my money back, please? I'm happy to go on my own way. She's like, sure, I'll send it to you. Give me your Zelle info. Day goes by, another day goes by. Never get anything back. So I'm like, okay, well, at least I'm gonna go on her Facebook page. And I'm gonna write a review. And I'm gonna warn other mothers to be like, just don't book this woman. Save yourself the drama. And I hadn't been on there in months. When I was there before, it was nothing but glowing reviews. But of course, as soon as I log on, there are a multitude of just multiple reviews of how other people have been scammed by this woman.

• 28:59Dax Shepard?

  I wonder what happened in her life where she turned from legit to a criminal.

• 29:03Speaker 04

  Exactly, because that is obviously what happened.

• 29:05Dax Shepard?

  Drug habit.

• 29:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, I reached out to my cousin after this went down. And I was like, please don't recommend this person anymore. So she reached out to a couple of friends. And apparently she'd recently gotten divorced and had kind of been going off the deep end ever since. She wasn't even in town anymore and was just reaching out to people to schedule these. And there were much bigger sessions she was booking.

• 29:27Dax Shepard?

  Well, people probably bought that bigger package.

• 29:29Speaker 04

  Exactly, the grow with me package.

• 29:31Dax Shepard?

  Grow with me, yeah.

• 29:32Speaker 04

  It's a thing, Monica.

• 29:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 29:36Speaker 04

  You have to take your baby's picture every three months or you're a terrible mother. This is the thing that they talk you into doing. That's why we have iPhones, guys. I was never that person to do it. But there was even a bride that had her entire wedding shot. And she did the wedding, shot it, but then never gave her the photos.

• 29:54Dax Shepard?

  Oh, fuck.

• 29:56Speaker 04

  So I don't know.

• 29:57Dax Shepard?

  Something led to the divorce and then the vortex accelerated.

• 30:02Speaker 04

  It does sound druggish.

• 30:03Dax Shepard?

  It sounds either druggish or bipolarish, yeah.

• 30:05Speaker 04

  Yeah. Oof, hard to say. And she was a mom herself. She had tons of pictures of her two kids. So it's just kind of wild.

• 30:12Dax Shepard?

  Who'd you end up getting to take those photos? How far out were we?

• 30:14Speaker 04

  I did find someone that my neighbor recommended. I didn't get it in the 10 day window. It's gonna be okay.

• 30:21Dax Shepard?

  Did your baby look so ugly?

• 30:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, she wasn't as sleepy and as beautiful as she could have been. But it still worked out. They came out nice, but I did share with Emma, my drama didn't quite end there. I also had my daycare provider snub me two days before I started work too. So postpartum time for me was really, really hard.

• 30:44Dax Shepard?

  Wait, what's these photos I'm gonna see?

• 30:45Speaker 01

  Aww.

• 30:46Dax Shepard?

  Oh, your baby looks so cute. Oh, it's a tiny little girl.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  She's so adorable. This turned out perfect.

• 30:58Dax Shepard?

  Wait, and now she's a big sister to what, twins? Is that what I'm seeing?

• 31:02Speaker 04

  No, so the picture on the beach is the baby. The oldest was the baby and then I've had a second since.

• 31:09Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I'm looking at one with a little person holding two babies.

• 31:13Speaker 04

  So that is when we got kicked out of the daycare.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 31:17Speaker 04

  Two months later. So I got kicked out of the daycare two days before I started work and so did my sister. I called my sister and was like, your daycare provider isn't gonna take my baby. And she's like, she just kicked out my kids too. So that was our Instagram post to be like, what are we gonna do?

• 31:34Dax Shepard?

  Uh, do you love having two little girls?

• 31:35Speaker 04

  They are nine and six and they're the best.

• 31:38Dax Shepard?

  Oh, well, you wouldn't know it by looking at the photo that this wasn't 10 days later. This seems really...

• 31:43Speaker 01

  Maybe it worked out because maybe there would have been a little more wrinkles.

• 31:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, more redness.

• 31:49Speaker 01

  Exactly, that baby acne they get.

• 31:51Dax Shepard?

  Ugly skin pops up. Yeah, they get all of a sudden, baby onset acne.

• 31:56Speaker 04

  Which was rough. That actually gets really hairy.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  It does get gnarly.

• 32:00Dax Shepard?

  You can tell the parents are insecure about it. Yeah.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  That's the main thing. It's like, I'm always like, it's fine.

• 32:05Dax Shepard?

  I know they start talking about it. I mean, oh, she's just got, they said it's...

• 32:08Speaker 01

  It's just baby acne. It's gonna go away. It's like, no, I know.

• 32:11Speaker 04

  Hers was really bad. It takes everything to ignore it and be like, this is fine. She's supposed to look this way. So then again, that's why you get them done so early. The face is smooth.

• 32:23Dax Shepard?

  Their faces break out.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 32:27Dax Shepard?

  Oh, well, it's lovely meeting you, Lea.

• 32:29Speaker 04

  Yes. If you'll indulge me for a quick minute.

• 32:33Dax Shepard?

  Of course.

• 32:34Speaker 04

  Needless to say, I kind of told you that I'm very type A and had a lot of things go wrong within not only these two things, but had a lot of things go down within my first couple of months of having my baby. I was diagnosed with postpartum depression and anxiety, really, really severe. Really, really awful time for me and um... I can't believe I'm talking to you guys. The most challenging part of my life was the three years after having my first daughter, Alice. I would sit in my car and be terrified of just being alone in my brain because when you are that depressed and anxious, your thoughts feel like a prison. And the only thing that could get me out was listening to stories.

• 33:18Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 33:19Speaker 04

  And listening to you guys. And I remember your first interview with Pete once when you were like, "What medication are you taking and what therapy are you doing?" And I was like, "Oh, my God, other people take medication and I'm not alone." Yeah, how good.

• 33:32Dax Shepard?

  I'm not broken and defective.

• 33:35Speaker 04

  I was so ashamed of how horribly I was struggling and I felt like such a failure as a person and as a mom. And it's a week until my birthday and to get to meet both of you guys, it is the best gift ever.

• 33:47Dax Shepard?

  Oh, Leah.

• 33:48Speaker 04

  I'm sorry you were going through that. That's so hard.

• 33:51Dax Shepard?

  I'm glad we were helpful.

• 33:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, if anyone's listening, it does get better. That is my biggest message.

• 33:57Dax Shepard?

  That is the problem when you're in it is you believe this is the rest of your life. As I always say, you're never having a great time and go, "Oh, fuck, I bet I'm gonna feel elated for the rest of my life." You know damn well you're not gonna feel elated and the same is true on the other side.

• 34:12Speaker 04

  You're afraid it's never gonna end, but it does get better.

• 34:16Dax Shepard?

  Well, thank you for that.

• 34:16Speaker 04

  Happy birthday, happy early birthday. I think we're like really close in age. Monica, a few months older than you. Oh, so you're 39 this year. Nice. So I agree with you a lot, Monica, just so you know. Like, we're really close in age and I feel like we get each other a lot. Oh, love it.

• 34:35Dax Shepard?

  You're equally annoyed with me at times, hopefully.

• 34:38Speaker 04

  I always see both sides. They're both great arguments, always. Me and Monica grew up at the same timeline, so we sync a lot. You had the Flintstones vitamins. I did. I tried to get my kids to eat them. They don't like them. The new kids, their tastes are too...

• 34:53Dax Shepard?

  Well, the shit got better, guys, is what happened. The gummies are delicious. There's some nice chalky.

• 34:58Speaker 04

  Oh, I love that chalk.

• 34:59Dax Shepard?

  All right, well, happy birthday. Be well. Great meeting you.

• 35:02Speaker 04

  Thank you, guys, so much.

• 35:03Dax Shepard?

  Take care.

• 35:19Speaker 05

  Hey.

• 35:19Dax Shepard?

  Hi.

• 35:20Speaker 05

  Hello.

• 35:21Dax Shepard?

  I don't want to say your real name. Have you picked out a fake name?

• 35:25Speaker 05

  I haven't. I was hoping you guys would be able to pick for me.

• 35:28Dax Shepard?

  I hate to be pedestrian, but I'm going with Brian.

• 35:30Speaker 05

  Okay, I like that.

• 35:31Dax Shepard?

  Do you have any objections to Brian? Have you been bullied by a Brian?

• 35:34Speaker 05

  Never been bullied by a Brian or called Brian before, so that works. Okay, great.

• 35:38Dax Shepard?

  Okay, perfect, perfect. And where are you?

• 35:40Speaker 05

  I'm located in New York City, but this story is going to take place in Hoboken, New Jersey.

• 35:46Dax Shepard?

  I felt like it might be in New Jersey.

• 35:48Speaker 05

  You did?

• 35:48Dax Shepard?

  I did, I did. Well, shit goes down in Jersey. Let's just acknowledge that, right?

• 35:52Speaker 05

  There is a lot. I set the picture for you.

• 35:54Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 35:55Speaker 05

  I'm in my young twenties right now. I'm fresh out of a relationship and Hoboken is known for a lot of their bars. So I'm going out to the bars, meeting new friends every weekend. I'm not thinking of anything other. Two weeks after just binging the bars nonstop, I get an Instagram follower. My account's private, so I'm like, all right, this is strange. I don't remember talking to this person at the bar. Also, I'm in my young twenties, so I'm meeting everybody out there.

• 36:24Dax Shepard?

  Was it a hot girl in the photo?

• 36:26Speaker 05

  It was.

• 36:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 36:27Speaker 05

  Hormones are going wild at this point, so I accept the follower request. They actually reach out to me and we're DMing back and forth nonstop. It comes to a point, it's like late at night, they start setting the mood. They're like, why don't we take this conversation to Snapchat?

• 36:43Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 36:44Speaker 05

  So as a young person on Snapchat, you're gonna be sending pictures back and forth.

• 36:49Dax Shepard?

  Really quick, and the promise of Snapchat was they evaporate?

• 36:52Speaker 05

  They evaporate right away. So you open up, it evaporates. If you take a screenshot, the other person's notified that so and so took a screenshot of your picture. So they're going back and forth. Things are seeming to get pretty hot. The pictures that they're sending back look... A hundred percent real. Oh.

• 37:09Dax Shepard?

  Like they're in someone's bedroom kind of thing?

• 37:11Speaker 05

  Exactly. They're sending videos. I'm thinking that this is real life.

• 37:14Dax Shepard?

  The most exciting night of real life.

• 37:16Speaker 05

  Definitely. We're going back and forth and they're like, why don't you send a video of you? And I'll send a video of myself. They want nudes.

• 37:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, of course.

• 37:25Speaker 05

  So I'm like, you know, I'm not really comfortable doing this right now. I don't even think I even met you.

• 37:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 37:30Speaker 05

  So all of a sudden they're like, okay, I'll send one first so you can see that it's real and I'll send you a video. But then they're like, don't take a screenshot or anything. So I'm like, okay, fine. So they send it. I'm like, this is great. It's real.

• 37:42Dax Shepard?

  Life can be magical.

• 37:46Speaker 05

  So I'm not thinking anything of it. And they're like, can you send a picture of yourself now? So I send a quick photo.

• 37:52Dax Shepard?

  Shirtless or your dick?

• 37:53Speaker 05

  At first it was shirtless.

• 37:54Dax Shepard?

  Okay, very safe.

• 37:55Speaker 05

  And then they're like, no, I want to see your face and everything else. So I'm like, all right, fine. Let me cover up a little bit. So I'm not showing too much and I'll send a picture. And I guess there was a mirror in the back that kind of captured a little bit of my face. But I had no idea that I wasn't even thinking about it.

• 38:12Dax Shepard?

  You're in an accelerated state of mind.

• 38:14Speaker 05

  Yeah. All of a sudden they take a screenshot of it and I had no idea because they were using some third party app. And within seconds, they send me a screenshot of my picture and they start demanding a payment of $700. No. I am at this point sweating bullets. I'm like, what the fuck did I just get myself into right now? I'm like, I have a kickball game in 30 minutes.

• 38:42Speaker 05

  Now this person's blackmailing me for $700. I'm like, what the hell did I just get into? I'm like, I don't know what to do. I'm freaking out. I'm in my early twenties. I can't call anybody and be like, yeah, I just sent this person like a shirtless picture. And now they're blackmailing me. I'm freaking out. So I'm like, you know what? Let me just send the $700 and then it'll be over.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  No.

• 39:03Speaker 05

  They send me a Venmo account of who they want the money to go to. I send the $700. I think it's over at that point. Within seconds of them receiving payment, they're like, now we want 1,200.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  Jesus Christ.

• 39:17Speaker 05

  I am mortified right. I have no idea what to do.

• 39:21Dax Shepard?

  It's now 10 minutes to the kickball game.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  I know. What are you gonna do?

• 39:25Speaker 05

  I'm freaking out. And then all of a sudden, reality, I don't know what the heck happened, but it just clicks in. And I'm like, you know what? Send the fucking pictures to everybody.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:34Speaker 05

  Let all my followers, let the world see my picture. I don't care. They're like, it doesn't work like that. They tried to get me to send the additional 1,200. And I'm like, no, because they're gonna want that, then they're gonna want more until everything's quite done. I'm like, this isn't happening. Send the pictures. So then I close out of everything. I start reporting the account. I get my friends to report the account. I did a little researching myself to find out that Venmo account and what other Venmo accounts it might be linked to. I find Facebook pages of the user. So then I'm messaging them. I started digging up everything from this user and I started reporting it all. And I called Venmo. Meanwhile, my kickball game already started. I'm late. I called the captain. I'm like, I'm not gonna make it. I'm dealing with some stuff right now.

• 40:19Dax Shepard?

  I'm in the middle of a high stakes blackmail situation.

• 40:23Speaker 05

  So then I call up Venmo. They are zero help. Venmo is like, it's your own fault. There's nothing that we can do about it. I call up my bank and they helped me tremendously. They wound up helping me get my initial $700 back.

• 40:38Dax Shepard?

  Really?

• 40:39Speaker 05

  So I got my money back. They tried to blackmail me for an additional 1,200. It didn't work out. The account itself wound up getting terminated and I guess kicked off of Instagram. I guess I like to call it broke even that night.

• 40:52Dax Shepard?

  God bless that bank.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  I know.

• 40:54Dax Shepard?

  Because I might be like the bank too, like, bro, you know, you did all this, you know?

• 40:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:59Dax Shepard?

  It sucks, but you learned a $700 lesson, I guess.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  Thanks, dude. Tried. I wish Venmo would have flagged their Venmo account.

• 41:07Speaker 05

  That's what I was trying to get them to in the first place. I gave them the user's name. I gave them the payment subs and everything. And I'm like, this user is scamming. Luckily, my bank helps me, but there's probably 100 or more users out there that actually got scammed. And who knows who actually sent them the 1,200 payment. I mean, I stopped after the first one, but it just kept on going on and on.

• 41:28Dax Shepard?

  Well, I gotta say, there is some genius to the first number.

• 41:33Speaker 01

  Seven hundred.

• 41:34Dax Shepard?

  If they would have started with 1,200, would you have done it?

• 41:37Speaker 05

  Probably not.

• 41:37Dax Shepard?

  I know, like, I think they figured out what the threshold is. Like, that hurts, but in your mind, it's like, okay.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  It's also a substantial amount of money, enough that they just gained $700. Like, if you said, like, $100, that's not enough for them.

• 41:54Dax Shepard?

  For sure. Somewhere along the way, they figured out, that's not an accident, the 700.

• 41:59Speaker 05

  Now, it's just like a fun thing between friends. Like, if I owe one of my friends money, and I'm like, oh, how much do I owe you? They're just all like, $700.

• 42:09Speaker 05

  I'm like, no, that's never happening again.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. I'm glad you got your money back.

• 42:14Dax Shepard?

  I know a few friends of mine who have engaged in a correspondence in DMs, and ultimately, the person's always like, "Yeah, I wanna come see you, but I need this for the bus fare."

• 42:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 42:24Dax Shepard?

  "I had a hospital thing," you know?

• 42:27Speaker 05

  I know, it was crazy, but I live to tell the story now.

• 42:30Dax Shepard?

  Wonderful. Well, I'm flattered we have you listening. Yeah.

• 42:34Speaker 05

  Thank you for having me.

• 42:35Dax Shepard?

  All right, take care, brother.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Bye.

• 42:38Dax Shepard?

  What a sweetie pie.

• 42:40Speaker 01

  Cute.

• 42:41Dax Shepard?

  He was so cute.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  Can't believe he listens to us, this little young boy.

• 42:45Dax Shepard?

  I know, playful personality.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  Glad he got his money back.

• 42:48Dax Shepard?

  Me too.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  We would have had to pay him.

• 42:50Dax Shepard?

  The whole time I was hearing the story, do you wanna know what I was thinking? I was like, huh, cuz I've never used this Snapchat. I was like, wait, it goes away? You wanna be able to look at that for a minute? Like, how quickly does it go away? Do you guys know?

• 43:03Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 43:04Dax Shepard?

  You can't admit to knowing, either of you?

• 43:05Speaker 01

  I don't have that.

• 43:07Dax Shepard?

  But you need some time. How quickly does it disappear? I got scared.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  I know, because it is a-

• 43:12Dax Shepard?

  Do you see a fun video, and then just once?

• 43:14Speaker 01

  I don't know. And then why wouldn't you be able to take, oh, it tells you?

• 43:17Dax Shepard?

  But then you're outed.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  But then you could just have another phone videoing it.

• 43:21Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that's a good hack.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  No.

• 43:22Dax Shepard?

  Smart for the listener, yeah. You outsmarted that one.

• 43:26Speaker 01

  What I usually do is have another phone video.

• 43:28Dax Shepard?

  Sure, a third.

• 43:31Speaker 06

  Hello.

• 43:31Dax Shepard?

  Hello, Trina.

• 43:33Speaker 06

  Yes, I'm Patrina. Nice to meet you.

• 43:35Dax Shepard?

  Do you go by Patrina or Trina? I have two different things on my piece of paper.

• 43:39Speaker 06

  Patrina is my real name.

• 43:40Dax Shepard?

  Patrina. Patrina, where are you?

• 43:42Speaker 06

  I'm in Australia. Ooh.

• 43:44Dax Shepard?

  Get the fuck out from down under. What time is it there? Well, let me guess. It must be very, very early.

• 43:51Speaker 06

  Is it tomorrow?

• 43:52Dax Shepard?

  Is it 5:00 AM?

• 43:53Speaker 06

  It's tomorrow, yes. I am in the future. No, not that early. It's about quarter to seven in the morning.

• 43:57Dax Shepard?

  Oh, quarter to seven.

• 43:58Speaker 06

  How's your morning going? Not too bad. Just gotten up and all excited and ready to go.

• 44:06Dax Shepard?

  What kind of weather do we have this time of year? It's fall for you guys?

• 44:09Speaker 06

  Yeah, still quite hot, though, where I am. We've got big rain events happening at the moment, which is causing a bit of chaos in some parts of the state. But quite nice here today. It's blue skies and sunshine.

• 44:20Dax Shepard?

  Are you in Sydney?

• 44:21Speaker 06

  More northern part, so in Brisbane.

• 44:23Dax Shepard?

  OK, is that part of the Gold Coast? Did I get that right?

• 44:26Speaker 06

  Yeah, we're north of the Gold Coast.

• 44:27Dax Shepard?

  OK. Do you care about the Australian Grand Prix? It was just last weekend.

• 44:31Speaker 06

  I've seen some highlights, but no, not something I follow closely, no.

• 44:36Dax Shepard?

  OK, so I didn't think people got scammed anywhere but the US.

• 44:39Speaker 06

  Did it happen in the United States? No, unfortunately, it was here in Australia. Oh, no, right. People all over the place who do that, unfortunately. So mine's a bit of an uplifting story in the end, I think, personally. So this took place back in about 2009, 2010. I can't remember exactly, but I was living here in Brisbane, Australia. And I was about 22 at the time, living by myself with my two-year-old child. I'd just recently split up from the child's father. But I was living by myself, had a good job, was able to support myself. So that was all very well and good. After about a year, my friends encouraged me to start putting myself out there instead of moping around about the separation. And I was reluctant, as a single parent, to start dating again.

• 45:24Speaker 06

  But I did get on to the online dating sites.

• 45:26Dax Shepard?

  Can I ask, was your reluctance that you were nervous, like, how will I introduce a person to my child? Or was your reluctance, I have a child and no one's gonna like me?

• 45:34Speaker 06

  Bit of both, really. Didn't really want to introduce a stranger or have the expectation that they had to take the part of a parent. I was quite happy to do that by myself. But it was, yeah, a bit of an awkward... Scenario to come across when you're of that age.

• 45:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 45:51Speaker 06

  But there was someone I eventually met, let's call him Justin. We hit it off pretty well at the start. He was normal, easygoing. We had good back and forth conversation, which is rare back then and still rare now to get that two-way conversation going. He did take a genuine interest in me, wasn't too intrusive with questions or push boundaries with anything. So we took things pretty slow.

• 46:14Dax Shepard?

  What was he advertising as his age?

• 46:15Speaker 06

  He was, I think twenty-four is what he advertised his age as. And we did meet in person after a few conversations. Things went smoothly. And we dated pretty casually for a little while and I did eventually introduce him to my child. He got along really well with the child, would play into the little games that two-year-olds like to do and would bring little gifts and make things really nice for both of us, really.

• 46:39Dax Shepard?

  He was sweet.

• 46:40Speaker 06

  Yeah, it wasn't what I would consider a love bombing stage or anything like that, but it was kind. Things progressed and he'd stay over for a night or two every week. I met some of his friends. We'd hang out when we both finished work. Look, it was nice. It was uncomplicated. And he was willing to take things slow, which was nice for me, getting back into that environment. So probably in hindsight, I was a very naive twenty-two-year-old and was looking at things through rose-colored glasses. And there were things that probably should have got my spidey senses tingling. So things like he had his own landscaping business and worked at all these random places, but he didn't have a car to get around. He was vague about where he lived. I wasn't able to go to his house. He wouldn't tell me his company name.

• 47:25Speaker 06

  And then just things like, he was a landscaper, worked hard all day, every day, but didn't really come home.

• 47:31Dax Shepard?

  Sweaty or dirty.

• 47:33Speaker 06

  Yeah, which is a bit strange. He'd get dropped off and picked up from my house by his work friends, but it was always different people, different cars, and they'd call him different names. At the time, I brushed it off thinking he's just a private person. He's got different nicknames at work to what he goes by and didn't really think too much of it.

• 47:52Dax Shepard?

  Did you even go so far as to imagine like, oh, maybe he wants me to think he owns it, but he doesn't and he's embarrassed?

• 47:58Speaker 06

  I did, but I also thought, who cares? He's making a living, he's giving it a hard slog at whatever it is. I've had doubts about how serious this business he owned was, but it's his life at the end of the day. And he didn't owe me anything to get into the nitty gritty of it. So that was fine at the time. So we're probably about three months in at this point and myself and my child, we went on a holiday with my parents and my family. We were away for about a week and a half. It was a pre-planned holiday. We weren't in a situation where I felt the need to invite him, but he did offer to check on my house while I was gone, water the plants and just tend to things while I was gone. And I was quite happy with that, so I left him a spare key. We spoke really regularly during the trip.

• 48:40Speaker 06

  No red flags, nothing out of the norm, just really sweet conversations, saying it was exciting for me to come back, missing me, those types of things. And he said he'd stopped in to check on the house, everything was fine and for us to have a really great time. And we were, but I was excited to get back because of all the sweet things that were being said, and all the exciting things I'd look forward to get back to.

• 49:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you're 22.

• 49:02Speaker 06

  Yeah, exactly. The day came and we arrived back home, it was pretty early, it was about six thirty, seven o'clock in the morning, and he was meant to pick us up. I'd reconfirmed the time with him the night before and that was all fine, but he wasn't there.

• 49:15Dax Shepard?

  And where's there, a train station or the airport?

• 49:17Speaker 06

  Yeah, it was a train station actually. So he was running a bit late. I sent the rest of my family off saying, oh, I'm sure he'll be here soon. They took my child with them, they had a car seat, so that was all good. I waited about an hour and he never showed up. So he didn't answer any calls or texts.

• 49:32Dax Shepard?

  Does he have your car?

• 49:33Speaker 06

  I didn't think he did at the time. So I had someone else pick me up and took me home. I pulled up to my house and I noticed that the security door was latched open, which is not something I would usually do. It's a little bit out of the ordinary, but the main door was locked, so I didn't think anything of it. I went inside and I was just really confused. There was junk everywhere, but nothing else. No furniture, no appliances, artwork, jewellery, money boxes, all gone.

• 50:02Speaker 06

  Went to my garage, car was gone. It was only about a two year old car. It was very nice, very new.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 50:09Speaker 06

  Spare fridge gone, main fridge gone, like all the food that was in it was just in a pile on the counter.

• 50:16Dax Shepard?

  It was like moving truck style.

• 50:18Speaker 06

  Yeah. Yeah, well, that comes into it. I had some of my grandparents' belongings at the house, a wooden boat that my grandfather had handmade and painted. It was gone, all those really, you know, important family heirlooms. In my bedroom, I walked in, there was a lamp on the floor and then just a pile of my clothes just in the middle of the room.

• 50:37Dax Shepard?

  Oh my god.

• 50:39Speaker 06

  There was like food packets, alcohol cans just scattered around the place. My outdoor furniture was gone. So my child's bedroom at the time was the only door that was closed in the entire place and I was just so anxious to open it, thinking that, look, if all their things had gone, it was just making me sick. The thought that that had been violated as well was just unimaginable to me. But I opened the door and surprisingly, it seemed to be the only room that was intact.

• 51:05Dax Shepard?

  So he's like a ninety percent monster.

• 51:08Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  He probably was going to, but then he remembered, like, oh, this kid, and I gave him presents.

• 51:16Dax Shepard?

  I can totally relate to that moment. I can imagine going like, yeah, how dark is this person?

• 51:22Speaker 01

  How bad am I gonna be today?

• 51:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 51:25Speaker 06

  Exactly. I did later do a bit of an inventory of the room and I did work out the only things that were taken were the gifts that he had actually given my child earlier. The relationship, so that was a bit strange, but everything else was there luckily. So my initial thought when I'd gone into the house was that the house had been broken into and I was, you know, panicked and worried about him because had he gotten caught up in it or something like that? Calls and texts not going through, not answering, and then they stopped going through altogether. It's like not sent kind of situation.

• 51:55Dax Shepard?

  Like you've been blocked.

• 51:56Speaker 06

  Yes, that's when I realized what had actually happened. He was obviously involved in the whole scenario of emptying the house and stealing the car. I called and made a report to the police. They came straight over, took all the details, put out the BOLO on the car for it to be flagged, told me they'd be in contact, started making that inventory list. And later on that night, they called me down to the police station. So I gave them a proper written statement. And after that, they explained that they'd looked him up in the system and he had an excessive record of this similar pattern of behaviour, extensive record of different aliases, charges of fraud, theft, and all in very similar circumstances around this kind of dating a person scenario and then ripping them off essentially. Wow.

• 52:39Dax Shepard?

  And that person can probably be juggling multiple marks at once.

• 52:44Speaker 06

  Possibly. So the really interesting thing that I then found out about that is with the timing, they let me know he had only recently been released from prison. And I had actually started speaking to him within a day or two of him being released. So I had no idea that that was him. There was no landscaping business. There was no job. He was literally fresh out of prison, straight on the dating sites to repeat his pattern. So he was on parole. One of the friends that I'd met earlier, he was actually released from prison while we were in that sort of dating period. So I met him the day he came out of prison, had no idea. I knew it was just material possessions at the end of the day, but I was like humiliated. I was angry and I was hurt.

• 53:29Dax Shepard?

  I was gonna ask you, was it so hard to call your parents and tell them what happened?

• 53:34Speaker 06

  Yeah. I don't even recall doing it, but I ended up staying at their place. I wasn't feeling safe at my house for that little while. But then I got really angry and I went into like a full investigator mode. I went and door knocked to my neighbours. They were surprised to see me. They said, oh, we thought you had left. Like, we thought you had moved out because we saw that big moving truck here a couple of days out. And it ended up being like the second day I was away on that holiday was when all this went down. So he was talking to me that whole time. Everything's fine. Yep, house is fine. Meanwhile, he's got this moving truck at my house, loading it up with all of my possessions. It was a very distinctive truck as well. So I was able to pass that information on to the police, but I did my own research and I found out it was a second hand store that

• 54:17Speaker 06

  did him the duty of coming and collecting all but my belongings and moving it away. And they paid him $2,000 for my entire house.

• 54:23Dax Shepard?

  Your whole life.

• 54:24Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 54:25Speaker 06

  The police issued a warrant. I was able to go and collect the belongings that was still there, but apparently most of it had been sold, which I didn't believe, but I did get my grandfather's handmade wooden boat back.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  That's the irreplaceable thing.

• 54:39Speaker 06

  Exactly. The car was eventually tracked down. He had dropped it just over state lines, literally a couple hundred metres into the next state, and that made the recovery of that really difficult. But I did get it back. It was damaged and trashed, but it was repairable in the end. So I did gather things back, which was good, but he was still out and about at this time, which made me worried. He knew where I lived. He did randomly send me a text, I think two months after, just saying sorry. But then he was arrested about a week later. He was sent back to jail. He pleaded guilty, so I didn't have to go to court.

• 55:12Dax Shepard?

  What was he doing when they picked him up?

• 55:14Speaker 06

  He had gotten to a state where he'd run out of money and went back to his mother's house. I'd actually reached out to his mother and let her know what was happening. And she just said, look, I'm sorry. It's a hard lesson for you to learn. And I don't know where he is. But he showed back up at his mum's house. She either turned him in or convinced him to turn himself in. I'm not sure. But he was in jail for nine or so months and was ordered to pay restitution. So it was about $30,000 in the end was the amount of damage and things that he'd taken. He got $2,000 for it, but this was over 15 years ago, and I'm still getting paid $20 a week restitution to pay off this bill.

• 55:52Dax Shepard?

  Really?

• 55:53Speaker 06

  I didn't even get any restitution for probably the first five years because he was still paying off from the previous crimes that he'd committed and the other people he'd done it to. That was a really horrible way to get back into the dating scene. It took a really big toll on me overall. It eroded a lot of trust that I have with relationships. And it made me second guess my own judgment, which is one of the worst things, but also, like you touched on at the start, Dax, the thought that I'd bought somebody into my child's life. It was not the sort of person that I wanted them to be around. And that could have gone a lot of different ways. It was really scary and really hard for me to get past.

• 56:29Dax Shepard?

  This is what I absolutely hate about these situations is someone gets completely abused. And then they're left to feel terrible. Oh, it's the cruelest of all crimes.

• 56:40Speaker 06

  Yeah, it was really horrible and it affected me for quite a few years. I turned that into a hyper independence and threw myself into my career. Eventually was able to buy my own house and build my own safe environment back around me. I did eventually get counselling for it a few years on. I probably should have done it earlier.

• 56:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 57:00Speaker 06

  But it did really help me to reframe the experience and empower me to forgive myself and forgive the situation, which was really good. I haven't really dated since then, so it's been quite a few years now, but hopefully my next chat with you guys is a meet cute scenario. Yeah, I hope so.

• 57:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, well, that kind of experience really gives the shadow voice that we all have a lot of proof, unfortunately.

• 57:26Speaker 06

  Gives it some validity that it shouldn't have.

• 57:28Dax Shepard?

  Fuck.

• 57:28Speaker 06

  God, I hate that guy.

• 57:31Dax Shepard?

  Katrina, I'm so mad about this.

• 57:33Speaker 06

  Yeah, unfortunately, happens in Australia too. I guess it's good to know it also happens for us.

• 57:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I feel like every five seconds someone.

• 57:42Speaker 06

  Something horrible is happening here. It does.

• 57:45Dax Shepard?

  So wait, baby's now what seventeen or eighteen?

• 57:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, all grown up, got their licence, going their own little independence. I think we are living a really great life and we're very privileged to live the life we have. And I do think that that scenario that I went through helped form some of that direction. So as bad as it was at the time and for many years afterwards, I'm happy that I've ended up where I am now.

• 58:08Dax Shepard?

  Good. Well.

• 58:10Speaker 06

  So nice to meet you.

• 58:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, incredibly nice to meet you.

• 58:13Speaker 06

  You guys too.

• 58:13Dax Shepard?

  We love that you're on the other side of the world listening.

• 58:16Speaker 06

  Yeah, means a lot. I'm trying to grow the cherry group. Hopefully we get that spike.

• 58:22Speaker 06

  Have a great day, guys. Bye.

• 58:24Dax Shepard?

  Bye. Oh, I'm mad. How can people be that mean?

• 58:29Speaker 01

  Oh. People are really mean, but then people are really nice. Like the ones we're talking to are really nice.

• 58:35Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and there's more of us than them. Can I count myself a nigga?

• 58:39Speaker 01

  I didn't know I was gonna go there.

• 58:41Dax Shepard?

  I know, I can tell, I feel a little resistance. I have not scammed anyone.

• 58:44Speaker 01

  I know that. I just feel like that guy, when he was stealing the stuff and then he was gonna go in the bed, like so much was going on psychologically. He didn't steal from the kid, and he did take his presents back. There's a lot. That's complex.

• 59:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I mean, the bottom line is, who would I rather be, him or her? I'd rather be her. I don't think your life, when you're that way, is pleasant. I don't think you're winning when you're doing that. I think you live with all that. I just don't think anyone's footloose and fancy free, unless they're a sociopath.

• 59:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 59:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, unless they've been gifted with sociopathy.

• 59:22Speaker 01

  It's just so sad because it robs the other person. More than the stuff, it's like a sense of safety in the world, a sense of safety about yourself. Like, it's so, it's so damaging. Yeah. Just be careful out there.

• 59:35Dax Shepard?

  Be careful. We love you.

• 59:37Speaker 01

  Love you.

• 59:40Speaker 07

  Do you want to sing a tune or something? We have a theme song.

• 59:42Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay, great. We don't have a theme song for this new show, so here I go, go, go. We're gonna ask some random questions and whip the hell up our cherries, book and some suggestions. On the fly, rhyme dish. On the fly, rhyme dish. Enjoy.