Creating Success Word by Word with Tracee Ellis Ross

Tracee Ellis Ross has built an extraordinary life as an award-winning actor, producer, entrepreneur, and visionary founder of Pattern Beauty. But behind all of that success is a woman who believes deeply in the power of words. In this episode of Aspire, Emma Grede sits down with one of her favorite women — and businesswomen — on the planet to talk about how Tracee’s intentional approach to language, therapy, and clarity has shaped everything from her relationships to her leadership. Tracee opens up about how she manifests with purpose, the patience it takes for ideas to bake, and why redefining success starts with what you say to yourself. This is an inspiring, grounded conversation about becoming who you are and using your words to build the life and business you want. Listen if you’re ready to: -Speak more intentionally -Redefine what success means for you -Build confidence from the inside out -Learn how your language can shape your success

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:10Emma Grede?

  Tracee Ellis Ross is one of my favorite women and one of the most intentional businesswomen I know. She reminds us that the best ideas take time to bake and that success isn't just about what you do, it's about how clearly you speak it into existence. This week on Aspire, Tracy shares how being deliberate with the way she speaks changed her mindset on everything: family, aging, relationships, and business. Over the next hour, Tracy is giving you the playbook to be who you are and get what you want.

• 0:50Emma Grede?

  Tracee Ellis Ross.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  That's me.

• 0:52Emma Grede?

  That is you. Thank you so much for being here.

• 0:54Speaker 01

  I'm so happy to be here.

• 0:55Emma Grede?

  I'm really lucky to have you here.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  You are lucky. There were a couple of birthday parties we've been at. Like, yes.

• 1:00Emma Grede?

  Yeah, just a handful of times. And I'm like, wow, she is so unapologetically who she is. She is so full of life. She's designed this life. And it is, to me, one of the most unbelievable things about you is this level of self-assurance and how self-possessed you are as a woman. And I think for so many women, that's a really difficult place to get to in life. So that's where I want to start. And I just wonder, have you always been like that? Has it taken you a while to get there?

• 1:33Speaker 01

  It's taken me a long time. And it's interesting because as you say that, I'm like, do I feel self-assured? I have a real genuine sense of who I am. It took me a long time to get to know myself, to have the courage to be that person and then to live as that person has just come in the last, I would say, six to seven years.

• 1:52Emma Grede?

  Oh, really?

• 1:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, to actually live as that person. And I actually look forward to what is to come because I feel like I still have a sense of knowing what is right for me, but not always having the courage to do that. You know, sometimes I feel like I should do this. So I do look forward to the other, but I think I've always been, I've always been this person. I've always had a very big personality. I've always known what I liked. I actually had an experience today that was fascinating. So I still have all of my magazines from the eighties.

• 2:27Emma Grede?

  You do? You're a magazine freak.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  So I was a magazine freak. I loved Sundays and magazines. Like, I just loved magazines.

• 2:35Emma Grede?

  Fashion magazines?

• 2:36Speaker 01

  Fashion magazines and like Casa Home, like also decor magazines, mostly fashion. And when my brothers, who are 15 and 16 years younger than me, when they got old enough, they were going through them looking for naked pictures. And so my mom, all of a sudden, I was out here in LA and she was like a moving, had sent a moving truck with all of my magazines. And I have them all. And this morning I was looking through them and realized something I hadn't realized. I had been dog earring the pages of the things I loved in the magazines. So I opened a magazine from 1989 and there were all these dog eared pages. And I was like, wow, I was like in my teens. And what I looked at and thought, wow, I became this person.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  And I think of the TV shows I watched. I watched The Bionic Woman, Cagney and Lacey, Kate and Ally, Charlie's Angels. These shows led by women, Carol Burnett, Lucille Ball, who could leap tall buildings and live out their dreams and live a life that to others seemed like it was meant for men. And I seem to have become this woman. And I think it was that I've always been purposeful about what I love and what was of interest to me, my sense of curiosity. And so it definitely curated me in a purposeful and intentional direction. And I stand here at 52 and like opening up that magazine, thinking, God, I dog eared this at 17 years old, 16 years old.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  And thinking, this is how I dress. Like, this is how I look now.

• 4:09Emma Grede?

  You manifested it.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  It's fascinating.

• 4:11Emma Grede?

  Do you believe in manifestation? Like, do you believe that like you were doing something through all of that?

• 4:16Speaker 01

  I do. And can I tell you something that I said to my therapist? When I I I've been working with this therapist that I'm with for maybe maybe 10 years. And the first thing I said to her when I was interviewing to see if we were a match is I said, the thing about me is I manifest really quickly. So I have to be intentional about what I language and the words that I use. And so what I like to do is spend time in therapy being clear about what it is that I want.

• 4:43Emma Grede?

  Oh, first of all, you just said too many good things there. You manifest really quickly, which is super interesting. I want to get into that. But you language really purposefully.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:53Emma Grede?

  So I first of all, I'm obsessed with that.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  Because I know that I manifest quickly.

• 4:58Emma Grede?

  Wow.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  And so I don't want to be manifesting the wrong stuff. Right? And I do spend a lot of time saying out loud, like, thank you, like, whoa. Like, I'll have moments, I'm thinking, I want this thing, I want this thing. And then a thing comes and I'm like, oh, my God, that was the thing. It's in a different form than I could have imagined, but like, that's the thing.

• 5:18Emma Grede?

  That's the thing. That's the thing that you asked for. I mean, I find it so fascinating as someone who like I grew up worshipping the pages of magazines and I didn't dog ear them, but I used to tear them out.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Oh, I heard.

• 5:28Emma Grede?

  Create collages and I would be like, this is the house I'm gonna have. And this was what my wardrobe would look like and all the pieces that would make out. That was like, it was a big thing for me and years.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  They used to call them manifestation boards.

• 5:40Emma Grede?

  Back when I was little, that was just a collage.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:42Emma Grede?

  It was just me like making the bad room that I had like slightly better. But it's so interesting because years later, I will never forget it. Sitting there, having had my first child and I started crying. I was in this new house that we'd bought and my husband was like, it's amazing, this new kid. And I was like, no, it's amazing because I manifested this exact situation.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 6:02Emma Grede?

  With the Christmas tree there and the window there and that credenza that like I drew this. I put this thing together 20 years ago. And so I find that so interesting that you know that power about yourself.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  I do know that power. I also, even more than that, understand the balance of what is not in my hands. And letting go and allowing things that are better than I could have imagined. And also sometimes exactly not what I imagined. I mean, there are parts of my life that I'm like, really? Because I've manifested these other things. What's happening?

• 6:34Emma Grede?

  I didn't want that. I didn't ask for that.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  Or like, what is this? And sort of having a balance and a sense of allowing and grace and open-handedness, along with being intentional about where I want to go.

• 6:47Emma Grede?

  Talk to me a little bit about your upbringing, because you grew up, obviously.

• 6:53Emma Grede?

  You grew up in the spotlight, one could say.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  Well, my mom did, yeah.

• 6:57Emma Grede?

  You know, but it would have been, it would have been around you, right? You grew up here and, you know, I just found it in Switzerland too. But you've carved out a career, Tracy, all of your own. Like, it's so interesting because you really stand completely on your own. And I wonder if there's something that, you know, from your childhood, that has really informed who you are that we would find surprising.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  I was born here in Los Angeles. I went to the Center for Early Education before it was the center. We moved to New York in seventy-seven, seventy-eight, when my mom was going to do the WIZ. We lived in a hotel, the thirty-first floor of the Sherry Netherlands Hotel. I have a very abundant childhood, full of very unique experience. Andy Warhol painted me and my sisters. Francesco Scufolo photographed us.

• 7:45Emma Grede?

  Do you have that painting?

• 7:47Speaker 01

  Herb Ritz photographed us numerous times, and me numerous times. Experiences that are just not normal. Michael Jackson, Marvin Gaye, calling our phone, like, just things that are just absolutely not normal. That was my normal.

• 8:01Emma Grede?

  That was your Wednesday.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  But I will say that the thing about it is that my mom is a mom before she is anything else. So my mom, for example, recorded at night while we were sleeping. She would put us to bed at night, then go record. Then she would wake us up in the morning and sit with us for breakfast. My mom never left the house for longer than a week. She would commute back and forth. And then in the summer and Christmas vacation, we would create home somewhere. We lived in Rome, and then she would commute to her shows every night.

• 8:27Emma Grede?

  She was a supermom.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  She was super mom. So I had a very anchored home life that was based in breakfast, lunch and dinner, going to school, my mom handling doctor's appointments, all that, all while doing the Central Park concert. In the span of 79 to 80 something, my mom put out an album a year, did TV specials. How, how did she do this? I have no idea. I have no idea. And I never heard, not now I don't have time, never heard it. So I was raised, first of all, I was born because I was wanted. My life has been held from that place. My mom always said she wanted us to start from her shoulders. So anything she had learned, she wanted us to start from there. That's a lovely phrase. It's a lovely phrase. People say you grew up in your mom's shadow. I feel that

• 9:11Speaker 01

  I grew up in her embrace. And so I come from a world where I saw a woman who utilized glamour and her voice for agency that gave her a sense of power. That's what I equated beauty and fashion with. I saw a woman who was a businesswoman first and foremost, who was in charge of her careers, signed her own checks. She wasn't a celebrity or a person who people were doing things on her behalf and she didn't know what they were. She was waking us up in the morning and doing all that, but also being a businesswoman. So she set a template for me of what was possible. This idea that you could only be

• 9:51Speaker 01

  one and not the other was not true in my childhood. So I saw the bigness of a life that you also had to hold yourself. So I remember, people always say, dream big, but what I learned in my childhood was dream big, but know that you're the one that's going to be doing the work. You are gonna do the work to pull that up the hill. And so, dream at a pace and in a way that you can actually maintain what it takes to do that. And my mom has always been incredibly purposeful. So I saw all of those things up close and personal. I was witness to them. And that I think is what sent me on a path along with the television shows that I watched. And so I saw a combination of women that

• 10:33Speaker 01

  were not at all limited by the world's idea of the real estate a woman should take. Take up, but instead dream what you want and go build that.

• 10:42Emma Grede?

  It's so, it's so interesting to me because I've read that you credit your mom, Diana Ross, for teaching you that you don't need a man to build the life I want. And I read that you said, I come from a lot of abundance, but all of the abundance that I enjoy is mine that I've built. And building my own life has made me very aware of what my mother built on her own and what it took for her to do that.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:04Emma Grede?

  Will you tell me just a bit more about that?

• 11:06Speaker 01

  I don't know that my mom said you don't need a man. I mean, don't get me wrong and like, I would love a partner. And I've had some wonderful dating, you know what I mean? And some wonderful, and some wonderful relationships. So it's not that I just haven't found the person that is my life partner yet. What I will say is that this was actually the phrase my mom said. I was a big shopper as a child.

• 11:27Emma Grede?

  Has that changed, Tracy?

• 11:29Speaker 01

  No, it has not. But now at least I'm spending my own money because my mom was like, little girl, what is happening here?

• 11:33Emma Grede?

  What are you doing?

• 11:34Speaker 01

  She was like, what is going on? Cause I used to literally go into my mom and plead a case for why I needed to shop more than just once a year for school shopping. She was like, I don't get it. We did the school shopping and I'm like, I know, but don't you understand that designers come out with new seasons of clothes?

• 11:51Emma Grede?

  She's like, little girl.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  She was like, girl, get out of here. But she said to me once, she came in, she was like, I'm gonna tell you something, little girl. Your hair products alone are gonna break the bank. She was like, it's enough. There's shampoo and conditioner and a brush in the shower. You're good.

• 12:03Emma Grede?

  Deal with it.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  She said, so either you're gonna have to get yourself a really rich husband or a really great job. And I ended up building my own hair company, beauty company, honestly, because we just launched body.

• 12:14Emma Grede?

  I saw that.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  And I've built a really big, beautiful life and I've had a big job. I keep having big jobs.

• 12:18Emma Grede?

  You keep having big jobs.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  I keep having big jobs.

• 12:20Emma Grede?

  Over and over. Was there another woman or has there been another woman in your life that has inspired you in the same way?

• 12:26Speaker 01

  So many. I mean, I think I could collect them. I mean, Vivian Westwood and the fact that she just continued to stay vibrant, sexy, creative, fertile, beautiful.

• 12:35Emma Grede?

  Beautiful.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  Just until her last day, it was just stunning. Michelle Obama, I mean, there's so many women, Alfred Woodard. There's like, there's women that I hear these gems from them that I hold on to, that helped me, have helped. Me to build this life that I have around me. I think people talk about how to get what you want. I think it's more important to learn how to be who you are. The world around you will be built out of that. But if you're just trying to get the what you want, I think you miss the juicy, joyful and robust part of life that is being able to appreciate and enjoy and love what you have around you. You know, and there's a, do you know that Pema Chodron quote?

• 13:16Emma Grede?

  Oh, which one?

• 13:17Speaker 01

  So the one where she's like, in your current state, wait, da, da, da, da, I'm gonna hack up the quote.

• 13:22Emma Grede?

  I don't know. I don't know it. We'll find it.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  It's wonderful.

• 13:24Emma Grede?

  I mean, Pema Chodron, I just

• 13:26Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 13:26Emma Grede?

  Love everything she's ever written, ever. When did you find those books?

• 13:31Speaker 01

  I was going through a terrible breakup. It was maybe fifteen or sixteen years ago. And when things fall apart came to me. And it was the first time I felt like somebody sat down next to me. I didn't meet her. I just mean metaphorically, sat down next to me and didn't tell me that where I was was my fault. Didn't tell me that where I was was because I had done something wrong. Just that it was my fault.

• 13:57Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  And that it was actually okay for me to be where I was. And that the answer to moving out of that was actually to be with what I was feeling. And that the fastest way through to where I wanted to go was by actually being where I was.

• 14:12Emma Grede?

  And experiencing all of it.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  I was like, what? Like, because I felt like I was supposed to I am myself into better feelings. And I was like, no. And it taught me a huge lesson in my life.

• 14:22Emma Grede?

  You strike me as someone who is so fiercely independent. And I wonder, like, is that something that's very conscious for you? Or is it just who you are?

• 14:32Speaker 01

  I think it's who I am.

• 14:32Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. It used to bother me because I felt like I was doing something wrong. But, you know, I come from a really big family and I like, I'm a person that can, I love to sleep with, in the middle of the sound of all of it. You know what I mean? Like, just in the middle of the cacophony of the family. So I'm both independent and not. I'm very comfortable with myself. I'm comfortable with my own company. I have a sense of Of how to hold counsel for myself. In that sense, I'm very independent, but I'm also such a like, like with my friends and the people that I'm really like safe with, like I'm like a barnacle. Like you can't let go of me. I'm a barnacle lady. Like I'm going nowhere. Chosen family. I don't know what to tell you.

• 15:12Emma Grede?

  Are you famously single at this point? Cause I feel like every time I read about you, I read something.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  First of all.

• 15:18Emma Grede?

  But I want to go here.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  Slightly exhausting.

• 15:20Emma Grede?

  I mean.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  I'm like, guys, can you just like, it's slightly exhausting because I'm like, you, sometimes people talk about it as if I have tried to be a poster child for that. I'm like, no, that's just the facts. Okay. I also don't publicize when I am dating.

• 15:33Emma Grede?

  Well, fair.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Okay. So people, we don't talk about that. That's okay.

• 15:37Emma Grede?

  You can tell us if you want.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  We're going to keep that as is. I like that to be private. Well, because you know, here's the thing, when you start dating someone, you don't want public point of view about something that's private. As you're trying to discover if it works for you or not.

• 15:51Emma Grede?

  Yeah, there's that.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  So no, I don't, I don't do that. I have not been chronically single. I just don't, I haven't, I haven't done, what do they call it? A soft, a launch, a soft launch? I haven't done a soft launch. Isn't that, isn't that what they call it?

• 16:04Emma Grede?

  But it feels like it's a choice. Do you feel like that's very misunderstood about you?

• 16:07Speaker 01

  I'll tell you what's a.

• 16:08Emma Grede?

  Tell me.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  I'll tell you what's a choice is that I'm not going to date someone just to date someone to have someone to date.

• 16:12Emma Grede?

  But this is what I love about you.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  A person that's a match.

• 16:16Emma Grede?

  We were all told that. We were all raised with this idea that's like, well, listen, love, it's like times are running out.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  Do you know how many people have done that to me?

• 16:24Emma Grede?

  Of course.

• 16:24Speaker 01

  Do you know how many famous people have done that to me?

• 16:26Emma Grede?

  Name them.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  I swear to God, like just men that you're just like, that's not nice. Or my favorite question is, have you, have you ever thought about having kids? No, it's never crossed my mind.

• 16:36Emma Grede?

  Never occurred to me.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  I, I'm so glad you brought it up.

• 16:38Emma Grede?

  Vagina has been here and I never thought about it, not once.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  I've said to somebody in an interview, will you please get out of my womb?

• 16:45Emma Grede?

  Yeah, you should.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  Just get out of my womb. Like it's not your business.

• 16:47Emma Grede?

  Constant monthly reminder that I have an ability to do that. Oh my God, that's a whole nother podcast. I don't even have those questions.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  Not anymore. No, that's okay.

• 16:58Emma Grede?

  Lucky you, by the way. Congratulations.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  But the thing about my singledom is I don't mind the conversation because it allows me to transform that question into the other thing, which is how am I choicefully living my life? And how am I curating a life that actually matches where I am? And how am I not waiting for another person, or to get to a certain place, or a certain weight, or a certain age, or a certain money, or a certain whatever, to do the things that I want to do that bring me joy?

• 17:30Emma Grede?

  Exactly.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  And how can I walk towards those things? And that's where the Solo Travel Show came from. It's something that I always do. And it's something that has been a big part of me living out loud for who I am. And also, by the way, it's been a long discovery of what do I consider fun?

• 17:46Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 17:47Speaker 01

  Like, other people's fun is not my version of fun. And so I have to figure out how to make that real for me. And that's why now I look around and I'm like, oh, my life looks like me. It actually matches who I am.

• 18:04Speaker 02

  Hi, everyone. This is Kara Swisher.

• 18:05Speaker 03

  And I'm Scott Galloway.

• 18:06Speaker 02

  And we want to tell you about Pivot, our twice-weekly podcast.

• 18:10Speaker 03

  That's right, Kara. What a thrill. It's a chance for us to break down all the big things happening in tech, business, and politics.

• 18:16Speaker 02

  Yes, and I keep you in check so people can make it through each episode, whether it's digging into constant changes in the world of AI and social media, or trying to keep up with whatever the fuck Elon is doing. We're here to give you our take on all of that.

• 18:28Speaker 03

  Every Tuesday and Friday morning, we drop a new episode about some of the major stories of the moment.

• 18:33Speaker 02

  And Scott is a prediction machine, gazing into his crystal ball to tell you about where it's all heading.

• 18:38Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  So if that sounds like a good time for you, especially Mr. That's Right, you can follow us on your favorite podcast app to get new episodes every week.

• 18:56Emma Grede?

  What do you wish other women, women in their twenties and their thirties, that are still walking around with this conditioning that they're supposed to do a set of things when it comes to marriage and children? Like, what do you say to women?

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Is that what you want? Or is that some tape in your head from somebody else?

• 19:12Emma Grede?

  Because often it's the latter.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  Often it is. And also, what do you want from it? You know, I, not because of what my mom told me, but because of what society told me, I grew up dreaming of my wedding. And to a certain extent, I wish I had spent more time, younger, dreaming of my life. I mean, can you imagine what it would look like? Dreaming of just the life. And not only the life I want, but what is it that I want to give back to the world? What is it that is my gift, my purpose, my reason for being, that I want to share with other people? And that's not to say that you shouldn't dream of the partner you want. But by the way, be specific. Do you want what someone looks like? Or do you want what they make you feel like? And not even what they make you feel like, what you feel around them.

• 19:57Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  This is, by the way, a question that I tell people. How do you feel when you're around them? This is something I do when dating. There's two things that are really great tricks.

• 20:05Emma Grede?

  Give it to us.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  Great tricks. One is, take a piece of paper. On the front, write the facts. On the back, write the fantasy. So that you're clear.

• 20:16Emma Grede?

  Which is which?

• 20:17Speaker 01

  Correct. And not two pieces of paper where you can look at them at the same time and get confused. Flip it over like, oh my God, I love his friends. Oh my God, so and so is going to come to my wedding. Is on the other side. You know, I don't know what those things are, right? But that is one. The other that is key is on that first date, second date, third date, every date, ask yourself, go on that date, leave the date, and ask yourself how you feel. Do I feel safe? Do I feel seen? Do I feel sexy? Or do I feel like, oh my God, I didn't wear the right thing? And da, da, da, da. That's not a good feeling. Do you feel like, like I've had people ask me, this is the worst thing to start with, with a guy on a date, when they say, why are you still single?

• 21:02Speaker 01

  So my favorite thing to answer is, oh, because I'm broken. Oh, you didn't know? Like, what are you asking me?

• 21:07Emma Grede?

  What are you asking?

• 21:08Speaker 01

  What are you asking me?

• 21:09Emma Grede?

  What is the answer to that question?

• 21:10Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't know.

• 21:12Emma Grede?

  Because I gave me a joke.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Fuck you.

• 21:13Emma Grede?

  Like, oh, the fuck?

• 21:14Speaker 01

  What are you asking me? It's the wrong question. Okay, it's the wrong question. But it does give you some sort of indication of the way they're thinking about things, right? So I think asking yourself the right questions. I have a friend who always says sometimes the questions are more important than the answers that you get, so that you stay curious in the right way for yourself. But in terms of younger people, or anybody, honestly, any woman, not just women, all people, even men, anyone, no matter who you date, what is it that you want?

• 21:46Emma Grede?

  What is it that you want?

• 21:46Speaker 01

  And if you don't know, that's okay. Ask yourself the questions.

• 21:50Emma Grede?

  Just keep living and you can figure it out later.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 21:52Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  And keep asking yourself those questions. The key is, do not go through your life asleep and then ask yourself, how did I end up here? Because you will end up somewhere. And if you don't like it, and you're 35, it's a lot harder to make those changes. You can make them. You can make changes at any age. But if you just keep floating along where life takes you, without asking yourself what you like, and by the way, it's very hard to know what you like if you don't know who you are. And many people were raised in environments where they didn't have a chance to discover who they are. Many people have been in lives that are about surviving, and they don't have time to ask themselves those questions. But you can carve out five minutes a night.

• 22:33Emma Grede?

  Oh, yes, you can.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  And say, what did I like about today? What worked today?

• 22:37Emma Grede?

  Yeah, and how do I find more of that?

• 22:38Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 22:39Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  What felt good today? What, and then, oh, that felt good? What felt good about it? And name it.

• 22:45Emma Grede?

  Understand.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  And really understand that for yourself, and go into that much detail, because you will start to build the blocks of, oh, I'm a person who a six-person dinner is... Too many.

• 22:56Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  Start small. What did I like about today? What felt good today? I had a good day. Why did I have a good day? Okay, it was when I was with that person. And then you might mistake it and think that's a person I want to be around. What was it about that person? Was it you or was it them? And then you start to sort of build sort of a roster for yourself.

• 23:16Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  That can become a roadmap. For example, social media does not show us process. It doesn't show us how you got there. That's part of what you're doing in this podcast, right? Like, what are, what are the pieces? How do you think about life?

• 23:30Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  What are the questions that you do ask yourself? How do you discover that? How do you find that out? Like, for example, I have learned there's things I'm really good at. And there's things I'm not so great at.

• 23:41Emma Grede?

  You need to know that.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  You need to know that. And my favorite is to remember, I never want to think I know everything. I want to remain teachable.

• 23:50Emma Grede?

  Million percent, but you need that both in your business life and in your personal life.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  Correct. And they both mirror each other.

• 23:56Emma Grede?

  That.

• 23:56Speaker 01

  You know, and I have built my business life the same way I have built my personal life. And I do want to say to people, it is not because of the abundance that I come from that I have had this space to do that. I have carved out the visioning time, the dreaming time, meditation, where I'm looking at things.

• 24:20Emma Grede?

  Completely done a lot of work.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  It has been like chewing on ground glass. You say I'm comfortable in my skin. I was not. I was not. I have learned how to be comfortable in my skin.

• 24:29Emma Grede?

  But what strikes me about you, Tracy, is that you have an incredibly powerful mindset. And again, as I was reading so much and researching about you, one of the things I love is this sort of level of honesty that you seem to have with yourself. And I love that you said somewhere that, you know, it's okay to not feel good all the time. And when you're, I mean, first of all, when you're just a woman living your life, but certainly when you're a woman running a company and trying to build something and go after your dreams and fulfill your ambition, you have really shit days. You have really shitty moments. And I wanted to ask you a little bit about that and how you, how you've got comfortable just like not always being fine.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  Well, it's just true. I think the difference for me is that I don't try and reach above it. I try and make space around it. Yes, I manifest and use my words clearly. But I am not a believer in the ask and it's given thing of positive thinking.

• 25:32Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  I am a believer in a sense of wholeness for myself. So I make space for the space for being afraid. I make space for bad days. I make space for pain. I make space for mistakes. And the key to that for me is, as I said, creating a space around it and acknowledging like, you feel like crap and we still got to get up and go, you know, and we have things to do. I mean, I've had to be my funniest on my worst days. I've had, I have a life where sometimes I have to be beautiful on days when I feel horrible and feel not pretty. And by the way, one of my biggest lessons on that was my stepfather passed away and we had a show, this was years ago, thank you very much, but it was, we had a show to tape,

• 26:14Speaker 01

  Girlfriends. It was on a Tuesday. And we didn't, we let go of the studio audience, but I continued to show up. And I remember learning something in myself that there is for me always a place and a part of me that is okay. And that I could lean to that person. That's not to say that I wasn't acknowledging that I was in shock, that I was frightened, that I was terrified about what it meant. I just didn't know what it meant in that moment. And I was deeply sad. But there was also a part of me that was okay. And that's different from the show must go always, always go on. That's a very different thing.

• 26:52Emma Grede?

  No, that's like an internal tool, like a place that you can get to that's like some type of inner strength.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  Yes. And so that was a life lesson for me. And I do talk about The hard moments, and I did this on the show as well, for a sense of transparency, because I have to say that I I haven't seen enough examples of that. And what the result has been is me feeling ashamed.

• 27:18Emma Grede?

  Yeah, well, I mean, there aren't enough examples of that.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  No.

• 27:20Emma Grede?

  But I wonder, like, how do you even show up authentically in the public eye without getting lost in the performance of it all?

• 27:28Speaker 01

  I'm softer. I allow those parts of me to call the people that can support me. I mean, I've had moments when I've gotten so overwhelmed in big, wonderful moments of my life. I remember crying on my kitchen floor and calling, I don't know if it was my sister or one of my best friends and saying like, I don't, I like, don't know if I'm built for this. Like, maybe I just can't do it. Like, I just, it's too much and it's too hard. And then I got it all out and I was like, all right, I'm gonna go into hair and makeup. You know what I mean? Because, and it's like, that's the imposter syndrome, right?

• 28:04Emma Grede?

  That's it.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  But give it space, give it voice, let it be heard by somebody who can hold it with love and love you.

• 28:10Emma Grede?

  And have those people.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  And, and love you when you can't love yourself.

• 28:13Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  I don't, I'm not gonna bring that to social media. I'm not looking for people I don't know to support me in that. But then you bring the part of you that is present and can hold it. You know, I, I had to do something recently and I, I have a text thread with friends. I'm like, guys, I'm not feeling up for this, but I am gonna suit up and allow, you know, God to precede me in this moment. And allow, if, can I, this is what I always say to myself. I use the may I's, by the way. Not the I am's. I call them the may I's.

• 28:43Emma Grede?

  What are the may I's?

• 28:44Speaker 01

  I put may I before stuff because may I, instead of I am, feels like it honors where I am and invites me to where I want to go. And so.

• 28:53Emma Grede?

  You said you were purposeful with the language. Okay.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  So I'm like, may I lean into the part of me that is deeply grateful for this event that I'm going to, for this opportunity, for what it is celebrating. And may I let the soft parts of me stay as soft as they are as I walk into this from a place of gratitude. Or sometimes I'll do, may I be of service in this moment? Because I am not feeling up to anything. May I be of service and know that I'm there to be of service to what I'm going to do versus going there to get something for me. And those kinds of things help me get through some moments, lots of moments in my life and my career, that instead of being like, I'm okay.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  I'm totally fine, because I find that when I do that, weird stuff comes out of the side of my neck.

• 29:42Emma Grede?

  No, it does.

• 29:42Speaker 01

  That you really don't want to be saying.

• 29:44Emma Grede?

  No, no, it really does. And also, it's dishonest with yourself. So this is actually a way of honoring your feelings, but still having the strength and being able to move through something.

• 29:54Speaker 01

  And then sometimes things don't go well. And by the way, and then all you do is you take accountability. I was crappy. That was not great. And I really wish I could have done that better. And I'm sorry. And I really, and by the way, the biggest amends and accountability is to be corrective in your behavior. And I will say that we, we all, all of us, so many of us, know better, but don't do better. And that's okay, we're human beings. But the least you can do is keep trying. We can't be responsible for our first thought, but we can definitely be responsible for our second one. We can't always be responsible for our first action, but we can be for our second.

• 30:30Emma Grede?

  I feel like I'm in Tracy Church. I don't know if I can ask the questions, because I'm just like, I'm in learning now. You really are the rich auntie of all of our dreams. Like, I'm like, somebody give me a pencil.

• 30:42Speaker 01

  I'm like, really? Give me a pool and a cocktail, and then I can give you the rich Fonzie, rich Fonzie auntie vibes. You and I in a pool with, let's, can we do this podcast?

• 30:50Emma Grede?

  All of our podcasts in the vault.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  In the pool?

• 30:53Emma Grede?

  Episode two.

• 30:54Speaker 01

  Very good.

• 30:54Emma Grede?

  Yeah, it's gonna happen. So, give me this, if, if you were giving, because I do really look at you as someone who's like, got such nuggets and so much great advice, but what would, what kind of advice would you give to a woman that is trying to truly like, design a life of her own?

• 31:11Speaker 01

  Get a journal, start with yourself, and backtrack.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Into, okay, let's start with today. How was it? How did I honor myself? Like, start with some questions, right? How did I honor myself today? What went well today? What didn't go well today? What feels scary about what I'm feeling today? What do I have resentment towards about today? What do I have gratitude about towards today? And maybe do that for a short period of time of a week or two weeks, and then comb back through it with a pen and a highlighter. Circle the things that resonate as the whoppers. Not the surface stuff, but like the whoppers. And then take those and put those on another piece of paper. And be with those for a bit.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  And see if you can start asking yourself questions from there.

• 32:05Emma Grede?

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  What is the feeling I want from my life? And what things in my life that already exist give me those feelings? And then is there a job I can build out of that? Is there a life I can build out of that? Is there a company I can build out of that? What do I do better than anybody else? What do I do that I get lost doing and can't help but to just keep doing it? Like, somebody has to stop me from doing it. And how do I build something from there? Like, what are, what are those things in your life that allow your heart to sing? And at the same time, give yourself room that you might need to try stuff and then go, that didn't work, you know? And I think you really can do that at any age. You know, I say to people like,

• 32:48Emma Grede?

  Any age.

• 32:48Speaker 01

  Any age.

• 32:49Emma Grede?

  Any age.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  Like, if you don't have enough joy in your life, what is joy for you?

• 32:52Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 32:52Speaker 01

  What does that look like?

• 32:53Emma Grede?

  You have to figure, you have to know.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  You gotta know.

• 32:55Emma Grede?

  You have to figure these things out. I mean, being, first of all, for my whole life, I've had a diary. I still have the very embarrassing diaries from like 12 years old.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  The ones with the locks on them?

• 33:03Emma Grede?

  Yeah, with the lock, mine has a lock on it. It does, and big bubble writing, like, you know, three words on a line type thing. But still, to this day, I journal, and it is one of the most powerful tools for figuring out my own stuff.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  And it's different than typing.

• 33:19Emma Grede?

  No, it's, it has to be.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  It's gotta be written.

• 33:22Emma Grede?

  Because it's gotta come out. Like, it has to come out and through you, and then when you go back. But I love that. A piece of advice for starting to understand what you need and what you want and who you are. And having that ability to go back and see how you've changed and what stayed the same and what you need to do. It's, it's actually a magnificent piece of advice.

• 33:43Speaker 01

  It's, it's a really good tool. Yeah. So another piece that I do is, for example, when, you know, when you get like overwhelmed and anxious and something's upsetting you, right?

• 33:52Emma Grede?

  No.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  Never heard of that? Okay. Well, sometimes that happens to me, Emma. So I will do my list, right? I resent, I'm afraid, whatever those things are, over and get it all out.

• 34:05Emma Grede?

  Get out.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  And I do the circles of the deep ones, the ones that are like the big ones. Then I create a prayer out of that.

• 34:12Emma Grede?

  Oh, you do?

• 34:14Speaker 01

  I take those words and I try and flip them. What is the opposite of that? What is the, what is the feeling that that is not giving me that I want? And then I create a prayer that is, may I remember that I am so, I'm, I'm afraid I will never find partnership. Say that's there, right? May I remember that I am worthy of belonging and connection? I don't know. And then whenever that anxiety comes up.

• 34:45Emma Grede?

  You say the same.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  That's what I say. So I end up with these prayers that match that particular hurt in my soul.

• 34:54Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 34:54Speaker 01

  And then next, I like, I'll look back because sometimes I have a little card. I'll look back and I'll be like, oh, that got solved. At least it got healed for a bit, you know what I mean? And I might have to go back to it, but that anxiety, that part of me, that hurt in that little special little nook that's hidden in my heart, has something that answers it specifically.

• 35:15Emma Grede?

  I really want people to. Take that in because as a mom and I have two girls, that is something I'm going to teach them because to be able to create that for yourself,

• 35:26Speaker 01

  For yourself.

• 35:27Emma Grede?

  To take that which is bothering you and that which is weighing you down and to be able to flip it and then use what you've created as a way of re-.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  As a soothing, yeah.

• 35:37Emma Grede?

  I mean, that, that is, that's magical. That is, everyone who is listening to this right now needs to rewind that bit and write it down and do that for themselves.

• 35:46Speaker 01

  And I'm gonna give you that same example if I may.

• 35:49Emma Grede?

  Please.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  From a physical standpoint. So I have specific injuries. At 52, you'll find that the weird, funny ways that you've been sitting your whole life.

• 35:57Emma Grede?

  No.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  Create something fascinating in your body, right? So I have specific injuries. Now, if somebody from a general place looked at my body, they would be like, okay, so you need to strengthen your hamstrings. But here's the thing, it's just this part of my hamstring, right? So I have somebody that has helped me come up with exercises for a specific part of the hamstring and it's designed for me. Now that's something, and the only reason I tell that story is because if you take it out of the emotional and you put it into something physical.

• 36:28Emma Grede?

  Makes total sense.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  Sometimes it's easier for people to understand. Strengthening my entire hamstring is not the issue. It's this little bit that by the way, most people when watching me move, wouldn't even think I had a weak hamstring.

• 36:40Emma Grede?

  But specificity really matters.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  And it's somebody, so you know yourself better than anybody else. If you can just listen, really, and give yourself the tool to get to those places, you will have an unbreakable, unshakable foundation for your life that is built on you.

• 36:59Emma Grede?

  Heaven.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  Heaven.

• 37:00Emma Grede?

  Thank you for that.

• 37:12Emma Grede?

  I really want to talk to you about leadership and business. I have been using the heat protector and I love it.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 37:17Emma Grede?

  First of all, I'm very happy that you now stock in the UK because I was the person

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Cheffing for your family.

• 37:24Emma Grede?

  From Sephora, for a free.

• 37:25Speaker 01

  I was the one that told you. I was like, girl, we-

• 37:27Emma Grede?

  You know, it's in boots. I was like, God, it's in boots. They just wanted me to buy it, basically. I was just fooled into the whole thing. But it's really impressive. And yesterday I did see that you've expanded the brand. So outside of hair into body.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  So the reason I called it pattern beauty and not pattern hair was because I always knew it was on the roadmap. Yes.

• 37:43Emma Grede?

  Did you do a packaging change or is that just for that?

• 37:45Speaker 01

  For for body.

• 37:46Emma Grede?

  Okay, for body.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  For body. So it's still bold and beautiful, but it is, it has its own category, its own color. Yeah.

• 37:53Emma Grede?

  So obviously you were an actress that took this leap into business.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:58Emma Grede?

  And I know for so many people, like, doing that can feel so frightening and so scary. So what gave you the idea that you could be as successful as you've been?

• 38:09Speaker 01

  Oh, I had no idea it was gonna be successful.

• 38:10Emma Grede?

  No, you didn't?

• 38:11Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 38:12Emma Grede?

  So you didn't take that, you didn't, but you weren't like, okay, this is gonna be a thing and it's gonna be great. It is gonna be what it is now.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  Not at all. Let me be clear. Yes, I was an actress and that was my window in to have certain conversations. But I am a consumer and that's what my pathway to being a business entrepreneur, business builder was as as a consumer. And what I knew as a consumer and a beauty consumer and a shopper in general was that my entire childhood and life around hair products, there was something missing. And I kept thinking, I didn't know it was gonna be me, but I kept thinking, why is the same products that my mom and my grandma, my aunts, like, why is it the same products? Why is it the same few products in the corner? Why is there nothing new? Why can I, why can I not find products that are actually for the way my hair grows out of my head?

• 38:59Speaker 01

  And are not trying to straighten my hair? Why are the products that are for curly, they say for curly hair, don't work on me? So I kept saying, oh, my God, it would be so amazing. And that was when my mom had that conversation. She was like, please, stop buying products. You can't keep buying all these expensive products. This is insane. And that was another gripe I had. I had so much hair, you would buy this little thing for forty five dollars and it was two shampoos, two conditioners in there. The shampoo was always bigger than the conditioner, but I used more conditioner than I used shampoo. These were all the things I was like, why has no one thought of this? I don't understand. Why did they say put a dime size when I need a handful?

• 39:31Emma Grede?

  Exactly.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  I just never understood. And so I kept thinking, my God, wouldn't it be amazing if someone had a line of products that looked beautiful? And I could use a whole line on my hair and it looked beautiful on my counter, blah, blah, blah. Wouldn't it be amazing if someone actually made enough conditioner that it was more conditioner than shampoo?

• 39:45Emma Grede?

  How long did you say this for?

• 39:47Speaker 01

  This was my entire growing up. And then for 10 years, I wrote my first haircare brand pitch when girlfriends finished.

• 39:54Emma Grede?

  Oh. And you launched it when?

• 39:57Speaker 01

  It took 11 years to get on shelves.

• 39:59Emma Grede?

  First of all, we should say that story more because everybody imagines it's like an overnight success. It took you, Tracee Ellis.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  10 years.

• 40:08Emma Grede?

  10 years.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  And I want to be very clear with people. This was 10 years and nobody thought it should be coming from me. This was before celebrity brands existed. I'm the founder, so that is often different. Whereas people bring somebody in. But Pattern was built as a consumer who saw a blank space in the industry that just was not being serviced. And during the process, and I will, this is practical for you. This is a great one to talk about here. I learned a process around no's that has been instrumental in my entire life, but particularly as a business builder.

• 40:43Emma Grede?

  Because you were told no.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  So many times, in so many different ways. I will not bore you with all the stories, but I'll tell you some of the headlines that were really interesting. So I wrote my first haircare brand pitch. In that brand pitch, I had the original list of the SKUs that became the 11 SKUs. And the clear indication I had was that I wanted to, at the time, this is the way I said it and now the way I say it. I wanted to shift the paradigm for how haircare was marketed to textured hair and black people. Didn't understand it. Marketing is based on telling the consumer they have a problem and shaming them into buying something they need to fix the problem. Number one, I don't think that works as a consumer. I am a consumer. I shop the most when I feel good. That's number one.

• 41:27Speaker 01

  Number two, the other piece of it, as a black consumer and someone with textured hair, inherently that is problematic from a systemic point of view to tell me that my hair is a problem because it's not. I wanted to build a company that was based on the celebration of black beauty. Now, I don't believe that hair has a race or a gender, but textured hair is specific and it needs more hydration.

• 41:51Emma Grede?

  And there was never a part of you that just thought, I'm just going to create a haircare brand and make it for as many customers as possible?

• 41:57Speaker 01

  No.

• 41:57Emma Grede?

  No, you were like, there is, I need to fill this niche.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  Yes, and I need to develop a product. And by the way, a lot of people, some of the no's were, put your name and the name of the company on formulas that exist. I said, no, I need to find manufacturers that can work with me and chemists that can work with me to solve for the problems that I have always experienced in all of the products that I've used.

• 42:20Emma Grede?

  So give me the thing. So you go, let's start at year one. You write the pitch. You say it needs to be this amount of product.

• 42:27Speaker 01

  My manager reads it. And they go. My manager reads it and says, we should do a line of wigs.

• 42:32Emma Grede?

  Okay, thank you. Helpful.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  Then another manager reads it and said, we should do a hair TV show. No. Now, these were the only people I have access to, right? I was not, I don't come from a family of business people that are in the corporate world. I don't know how you turn an idea into goop. Didn't know any of those things. So then I went to another person who made me cry and was like, why would you, an actress, you need to partner with a hairstylist? I was like, no, I don't because hairstylists have not known how to do my hair.

• 43:00Emma Grede?

  And you cried? You cried with a no?

• 43:02Speaker 01

  She was very angry with me, the way she said it. She was like, she shamed me. But the thing that was interesting to me was I also, in that no, got clear. So I'm going to tell you a couple of stories and tell you what my experience is and how I use no's. So she was like, why you should partner with a hairstylist? I said, no, because the majority of hairstylists don't know how to do my hair. They know how to make my hair straight. They know how to braid my hair. They know how to do other things. They don't know how to do my hair the way I do my hair when it's out and big.

• 43:30Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  But what I learned is, the no, take it in. Have the feelings, be disappointed, or whatever that is. And then, once the feelings have subsided and you can actually take it in and learn from it, ask yourself some questions.

• 43:46Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  Do you agree? Is the no because you agree? Maybe it is. Maybe your idea isn't good enough. Do you not agree? Okay, if you don't agree, why do you think they said no? Is it because they're the wrong person? Or is it because you didn't express yourself in a clear way that was effective to get what you wanted across? And when you answer those questions, you get to get more clear each time.

• 44:12Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  So every no brought me closer. By the time I found my retail partners.

• 44:17Emma Grede?

  And I'm imagining Tracy, some of those no's would have also been useful. Some of those no's were right and you would have learned from them, right? And been like, okay, like, maybe I haven't thought about this thing.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  Correct. And some of those no's were because culturally, people did not understand the importance, the buying power and the beauty

• 44:36Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  of textured hair. Sometimes that meant that's what I had to express more clearly and teach people. Was it experiential teaching? Or was it data? I don't know. I had to do that. So we went through all these different phases. And by the way, the other thing with pattern is I got my retail partners first, before I had business partners.

• 44:56Emma Grede?

  Oh, you did?

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 44:57Emma Grede?

  So you had Sephora on board?

• 44:58Speaker 01

  No, Ulta.

• 44:59Emma Grede?

  Ulta? It was Ulta from day one? Oh, wow. Wow, it's so funny because I, or maybe it's just where I find you, but yeah.

• 45:09Speaker 01

  Priya and Artemis were in the original meeting I had with the two of them. I flew myself to their offices. And I ended up starting with Ulta. And now I'm at Sephora as well.

• 45:23Emma Grede?

  Well, now you're in a lot of places.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  Yes, now we have 11 retail partners.

• 45:27Emma Grede?

  Because, I mean, for people that don't know, I mean, pattern has been, it was a revelation in the industry. And I mean, I say this, I love the product. I use the product. I've gifted the product. I really think it is such an incredible brand proposition that you had. And I think that you did an amazing job of bringing that to life. But I was really interested in the fact that You went, you self-funded this brand, right? You decided that, oh, I thought you, you self-funded. You raised money?

• 45:57Speaker 01

  I found business partners and they are-

• 45:59Emma Grede?

  Oh, wait a minute. This is not what, I thought that you went out and you raised, that you used your own money.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  No, and I-

• 46:05Emma Grede?

  So, right from the get-go.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  And I purposely did not. So, some, someone told me early on not to use my own money. I will also tell you, I'm a black actress in Hollywood. I did not have that money to use.

• 46:15Emma Grede?

  Well, that is not the idea that everybody has of you. We, I would imagine that you could just, you know, start a brand and you'd be fine. You'd just take your own money and do that.

• 46:23Speaker 01

  No.

• 46:24Emma Grede?

  So, and do you, do you regret that decision?

• 46:27Speaker 01

  Not at all.

• 46:27Emma Grede?

  No.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm majority owner.

• 46:29Emma Grede?

  Oh, so you're still majority, you just did a great deal?

• 46:31Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:31Emma Grede?

  Okay, so somebody else put the money up for it, but you still own the majority. Maybe that's where I got it wrong.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  I have full creative control.

• 46:37Emma Grede?

  Amazing.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  And I am majority owner of the company. The difference is, I brought this fully fledged idea to my business partners. And when I brought it to them, I already had retail partners.

• 46:48Emma Grede?

  Right. Yeah. So, you were like, here's the thing. This is how we're gonna sell it. All I need is actually the, the capital to, to make it operational.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, correct.

• 46:59Emma Grede?

  Amazing.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 47:00Emma Grede?

  Really amazing. And how's it going for you?

• 47:02Speaker 01

  It's fantastic.

• 47:02Emma Grede?

  It's going pretty well.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, you know, I really love being a founder and a CEO. And I have my arms wrapped completely around marketing, PD, narrative, you know, which packet, just all of it.

• 47:16Emma Grede?

  And your partners are working on operations predominantly?

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have a co-CEO that oversees all operations. And my business partners, there's a lot of shared services with them. HR is there, but like mostly we are in-house. Forty-seven, forty-seven in-house employees.

• 47:32Emma Grede?

  That's incredible. What have you learned about leadership? Because I guess it's so different from the world, the entertainment world that you come from. Is it not?

• 47:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 47:40Emma Grede?

  In what ways are they so similar?

• 47:41Speaker 01

  It's very similar to being a producer, I think, being a CEO. It's about team building. It is about infrastructure and protocols and strategy. And sort of working effectively and efficiently.

• 47:52Emma Grede?

  Where are your strengths?

• 47:54Speaker 01

  My strengths are in storytelling, creativity, thinking outside the box. Yeah. I find data to be frustrating. I know a lot of people, it's incredibly important, particularly in operations, et cetera, but data tells you a snapshot of the past and I'm a visioner for future. So I don't, I don't care. You know what I mean? Like I have gut instinct and that's where I lead. So I would say creativity, marketing, storytelling, visuals, language. This is my forte.

• 48:26Emma Grede?

  I wonder how you think about the idea of like your creative vision with the realities of, you know, manufacturing and distribution and logistics and all of those other things. Is it just about being organized for you?

• 48:39Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I mean, it's the same thing. You know, I give 85% of my weeks to pattern and

• 48:45Emma Grede?

  Is it that much?

• 48:45Speaker 01

  And 85% of my week to the rest of my career. I mean, I have a full on empire. Like I have production deals and TV shows in development and a full press world and life and speaking engagements.

• 49:01Emma Grede?

  How much are you working, Tracy?

• 49:02Speaker 01

  I work 70 a week.

• 49:03Emma Grede?

  Seven days a week?

• 49:04Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 49:05Emma Grede?

  Saturday, Sunday, you are working.

• 49:07Speaker 01

  I'm always working.

• 49:07Emma Grede?

  You're doing something.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:08Emma Grede?

  Are you happy working that much?

• 49:10Speaker 01

  Absolutely. It's what I love.

• 49:13Emma Grede?

  I love that you say that and I also love that you're honest about working seven days a week. I get a lot of shit for talking about work-life balance. And so I'm going to ask you the question that every journalist asks me all the time. What about work-life balance, Tracy?

• 49:24Speaker 01

  It's harmony. It's harmony. I mean, sometimes it's full out one thing and sometimes it's full out something else and then you find a balance. The only person that can say no is me. And so I do that. And I also have a team that protects my time.

• 49:37Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 49:37Speaker 01

  But I thrive working hard and I have a great personal life. It's fine. It's all fine.

• 49:44Emma Grede?

  Because it's up to you to say no.

• 49:45Speaker 01

  It's all up to me. And being organized is the key and disciplined. I am disciplined. I do my work. Like you're not going to send me something for approval that I haven't read and approved. Like it's not going to, oops.

• 49:59Emma Grede?

  Yeah, like wash over you.

• 50:00Speaker 01

  No.

• 50:01Emma Grede?

  You're in it.

• 50:01Speaker 01

  I'm in it.

• 50:02Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  I'm in it and I learned that from my mom. By the way.

• 50:04Emma Grede?

  It's a very important thing that everyone has to learn. Read your contracts, don't give away power of attorney.

• 50:09Speaker 01

  Never give away power of attorney.

• 50:12Emma Grede?

  You should say it.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  And let me just, and by the way, a lot of people don't know what that means.

• 50:16Emma Grede?

  No, but why don't you explain it?

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Don't let somebody else sign your checks. Know where your money is going and when it's going out, it needs to be of your volition. So even if, and by the way, this is something that I do. You can pay your agents, they pay for you. So if they take a percent, they don't have to take it and then give it to you.

• 50:33Emma Grede?

  No.

• 50:34Speaker 01

  Give you the check for the money that you made.

• 50:36Emma Grede?

  And then you figure out who you're paying.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  How much you pay to who it's going to.

• 50:39Emma Grede?

  Yes, because at the end of the day, you need to be in control of every cost. Like every single thing that you earn is yours and where it goes, you should decide.

• 50:47Speaker 01

  And I also have to say, I am not a micromanager. I will micromanage if I don't trust what's going on. And then I want to know everything and I want to figure out why it's not going right. But I'm not a micromanager. That's what, that's about hiring teams. You hire and bring wonderful people in that that's their expertise. That's not my job. That's not what I do for, you know, that's not what I do great at or what I have experience in. But if left to my own devices and I don't think it's happening appropriately, I will start to get in there. I like people to bring themselves to work. That's the kind of leader I am. I work really hard and I, and if you want to know the truth, most people that we think on Instagram, oh, they just got it that way.

• 51:30Speaker 01

  If you've been in the industry for a long period of time, you work hard.

• 51:34Emma Grede?

  You know.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  Period.

• 51:35Emma Grede?

  You have to, you have to.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  It's just the way, it's, it's, no one else is going to do it.

• 51:40Emma Grede?

  Yeah, no, and it unravels really quickly. Like you know those people that are outsourcing, that are not really doing the work, that are not putting the time in because it doesn't last.

• 51:47Speaker 01

  No.

• 51:47Emma Grede?

  Like that's it. When you have a career for all of the time and the level of success you have, it comes from one, well, a couple of things. You have to have the talent, but you have really got to work it.

• 51:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:58Emma Grede?

  Like just that.

• 51:58Speaker 01

  And I also, another philosophy for me is most emergencies involve an ambulance.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  Time sensitive.

• 52:07Emma Grede?

  We ain't saving lives over here.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  No, and time sensitive is different from emergency or urgent. And I like to go slow and steady. I always tell people, if you need an answer right now, it's probably going to be a no. I need to sleep on it. I mean, I have gut responses, but like, slow and steady. Slow and steady. I would prefer to do less and do it right than do more and do it sloppy.

• 52:27Emma Grede?

  End of.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:28Emma Grede?

  That's a great philosophy.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:30Emma Grede?

  Again, another thing that shows me how much you know about yourself. Clearly. I want to know if you have a point of view, because I think that we've seen quite a lot recently, like a number of brands that have failed and gone down, especially when they serve a very specific community. And I wanted to see if you have a point of view on why so many brands fail.

• 52:50Speaker 01

  I think we have to do better as an industry. I think there are systemic roadblocks, and I think it requires a broader approach to support in understanding how you take a unique value proposition and how you scale that, what that would look like. There's some creativity in making sense of that with a brand. We're starting with this broad spectrum, right? Where is the growth? Is the growth from expanded retail partners? Is the growth from other products? If so, what are the other products that maintain your initial value proposition, right? And I don't know all the machinations of that in the case of this. I think it is very hard to maintain a brand.

• 53:35Emma Grede?

  Very.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  This is a very crowded market. Beauty, everything's a crowded market now, and everything filters through social media. And people are quick to make decisions about what things mean or don't mean, or whatever those are. People, consumers are way, it's not that they're smarter than they used to be, they have access to more information than they used to have.

• 53:53Emma Grede?

  So much choice.

• 53:54Speaker 01

  So there's so much choice, there's so much you can know about a brand, there's apps, you can see what product, what, you know, is in the formulas, blah, blah, blah. There's all the things, right? So I think the other piece of it, which is something I talk about, not just in the beauty space, but in Hollywood and everywhere, there is a cultural currency that is not accounted for in dollar numbers. That we must as industry do a better job of counting. For example, a very exclusive brand that serves a specific customer might not bring in the same dollar amount, but it is bringing a new customer into your store that is accounting for an overflow, a halo effect in your business

• 54:38Speaker 01

  that is either just serving you culturally or serving you financially in a larger way that you're not accounting to that brand. People need to have a better sense of that and really support that in a different way.

• 54:51Emma Grede?

  I think there's nuance to the way that we need everybody to think about. And that isn't like the full picture isn't always taken into consideration. Is it something that you talk about at Pat and like how you can future-proof yourself in terms of like stagnating growth or thinking about some of these brands that don't get to where they need to be?

• 55:09Speaker 01

  Yes, we talk about it, but not from that perspective. I think for me, the key is how do we want to grow? And being clear about that. Because there's many ways to scale a business, right? And it's sort of the question of what do you want from it at the end? So are you scaling it just to sell it? Are you scaling it? What is the reasoning, right? So for me, I always go back to the eye on the prize. Like, what is the initial value proposition and the mission and the vision of the brand? So if ours is to exceed the needs of this community, right? How do you continue circling back to that? This, you know, hair care, body care, this is not lip gloss. People don't, you don't change your lip gloss out every two weeks. You don't like, I want to buy a different flavor. I don't want, you know what I mean?

• 55:54Speaker 01

  Like, I want peptides. Now I want, now I want melon. You know what I mean? Like, that's not, that's not what the business is. This is something that becomes timeless and a part of your regular routine. Wash day is for some people once a month as opposed to every day. So how do you account for that in terms of the pace of the scaling? And do you want to scale because you're expanding retail partners? Do you want to scale because of product? Do you want to scale because of new product? So these are questions that you have to ask as you grow a brand and then create a strategy that backs you into that and builds you towards that. And also have enough space to be nimble and go, well, that didn't work.

• 56:36Speaker 04

  Nerds! Today's episode is sponsored by NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast. Ever Google a money question and end up 12 tabs deep with 12 different answers? This podcast is your shortcut back to clarity. NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast breaks down financial decisions with a team of trusted journalists. They explain the why behind decisions like investing, home buying, and choosing credit cards with clear, research-backed insights. No jargon, no misinformation. Make your next financial move with confidence. Follow NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast on your favorite podcast app.

• 57:06Speaker 05

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• 57:47Speaker 05

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• 58:07Emma Grede?

  Has your idea of what success looks like, or what you'd eventually like to happen with Pattern, changed from when you launched to now?

• 58:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, because originally, the dream was to launch.

• 58:19Emma Grede?

  Just get this 10-year dream out there.

• 58:21Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? So part of what's happened recently is I'm like, okay, so now what are the options? And that's part of what I'm in the growth process of. What are the choices and how do you keep those choices open? What does that look like? One of the things we did and have done recently that was really important to me is the core of the brand. If you just keep... Launching new, how do you keep the core of the brand? So going back and relaunching products that are the heroes.

• 58:52Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 58:52Speaker 01

  Ask why I work seven days a week. Because these are the things I lay around dreaming about, thinking of, talking through, talking through with this person, talking through with somebody that's not on the team, but whatever that may be is incredibly important and a part of the journey.

• 59:06Emma Grede?

  Are you a risk taker?

• 59:08Speaker 01

  Risk?

• 59:09Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 59:09Speaker 01

  I'm kind of risk averse.

• 59:10Emma Grede?

  You are?

• 59:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:12Emma Grede?

  You didn't see this as taking a risk when you started it?

• 59:15Speaker 01

  I didn't.

• 59:15Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 59:16Speaker 01

  It feels more risky now because there's more to lose.

• 59:19Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  Right? There was nothing to lose then. But no, I'm not like, I'm not a gambler. I'd prefer to shop than gamble. Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't want the risk of I might lose money. I would prefer to just spend the money on something I know I want. Right?

• 59:32Emma Grede?

  I love that you say that.

• 59:33Speaker 01

  That's my.

• 59:33Emma Grede?

  I mean, listen, I'm a risky biscuit over here. I'm a gam- I'm just a gambler in my heart.

• 59:38Speaker 01

  Are you a gambler? So I'm not a gambler.

• 59:39Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I'm a gambler. I will get, I'll put it all on red. You know, that's me.

• 59:43Speaker 01

  I'm slow and steady.

• 59:44Emma Grede?

  No.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  I'm slow and steady.

• 59:45Emma Grede?

  I am like, you know, fast and an ass.

• 59:50Speaker 01

  That's hilarious. But again, that goes back to knowing yourself, right?

• 59:53Emma Grede?

  You have to know yourself.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  So I feel like you and I both have built great, successful lives that match who we are.

• 59:59Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 59:59Speaker 01

  And so it's a matter of listening. Like, if I tried your model, it wouldn't work for me.

• 1:00:04Emma Grede?

  Exactly.

• 1:00:05Speaker 01

  And that's why I say, like, even on the travel show, I'm like, this is not prescriptive. This is my version.

• 1:00:09Emma Grede?

  This is you.

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  What's your version?

• 1:00:11Emma Grede?

  Yes, this is you. That means, I mean, it says to me that you probably have had to get very comfortable with the idea of saying no.

• 1:00:19Speaker 01

  Oh, God, yeah.

• 1:00:20Emma Grede?

  And you find you're like, I can say no.

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I feel that number one, no is a complete sentence. And number two, a small no is a big yes. And for me, if you look at a wine bottle and you don't know better, you would think, why didn't they fill this up? Because that air is what makes space for the wine to be the wine. Right? That air is something that I need in order to get the best of me, to have space and room to be creative, to vision, to think, to have downtime, to process, to integrate. That's how the best of me comes forward. And when I don't protect that air. I'm not at my best.

• 1:01:01Emma Grede?

  Forget about it. What's the boldest no that you've ever said?

• 1:01:06Speaker 01

  I would say a big, bold no is when I was building pattern and people were pushing for me to make it for everybody, for all hair types. And I said, no. Do you know that something like 75% of the global population has textured hair?

• 1:01:23Emma Grede?

  What?

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  75% of the global population.

• 1:01:27Emma Grede?

  No, nobody knows that.

• 1:01:28Speaker 01

  This is a statistic that recently was given to me.

• 1:01:32Emma Grede?

  I'm feeling better and better about pattern by the minute.

• 1:01:36Emma Grede?

  When we go in public, by the shares.

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  Watch, I'm totally wrong.

• 1:01:40Emma Grede?

  I'm like, oh, my goodness.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  Even if I'm wrong, it works for me and it's gonna, it's gonna build me in the right direction.

• 1:01:47Emma Grede?

  We're gonna be purposeful with our words. We're gonna speak it into existence. My hair's getting gullier by the second. But the very thought of 75%.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  It's very possible.

• 1:01:56Emma Grede?

  Wow, that is a total addressable market. We can deal with Tracee Ellis Ross. I really want to talk to you about your show.

• 1:02:03Speaker 01

  Do it.

• 1:02:03Emma Grede?

  It's so good.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:02:06Emma Grede?

  Your season two of this show.

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  We have, we have just been picked up for season two.

• 1:02:10Emma Grede?

  How nice is that?

• 1:02:11Speaker 01

  It's really lovely.

• 1:02:12Emma Grede?

  This is just like you.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's so me. And also just what a delight to see how people received it. I was, I don't know what I thought people would get. I know what I wanted it to be, but I was very moved. I've been very moved by how moved people are.

• 1:02:31Emma Grede?

  Tell me how, because I know what I've seen from the outside, but I'd love to know what people bring to you about it. So it seemed like, like I was like, this will be a cute show and I'm kind of watching it to see what you're wearing. And then I was like, oh, this is about so much more than that.

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, it really, it is less of a travel show. The travel is the vehicle for which I'm sharing, can you be yourself, by yourself out in the world? And can you be responsible for your own happiness? And, and give yourself the space to be.

• 1:03:01Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  In whatever that looks like for you. And solo travel looks different for, there's all different kinds of solo travel. For me, it's about integrating and being with myself and spending time quietly, letting my heart do what it wants to do. What resonated, what I saw resonating with people was this sense of. Permission to be okay being where you are.

• 1:03:21Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  And that you don't have to wait to go find joy and do the things that you love and experience things. And that doesn't even have to be with travel, that it's just you can go and do those things.

• 1:03:34Emma Grede?

  I think that that's what came through, that you were giving people license, permission in a very different way than how we've been or how we're thinking at the moment. Like it was you, there was this lovely comment that you said you described the show as giving yourself permission to be with yourself in the most delicious way.

• 1:03:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:53Emma Grede?

  And I was like, oh, that's like, that's so nice. Cause so many people would fear going on a vacation alone and having to spend time with their thoughts and be with themselves.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  And when you're traveling, you know, things are heightened. So the good stuff and the bad stuff. But also, if you're not traveling, I think the show also gave this sense of it is okay to change your mind. It's okay to say no to something. It's okay to do what you want to do, even if that's not what other people want to do. It's okay to put on your pretty clothes for you. It's okay if you're feeling lonely. It's okay if your life doesn't look the way you thought it was supposed to, or other people tell you it's supposed to. You can still find joy and a sort of transcendent sense of deliciousness for yourself. And I think that's what I know is my experience, but I was so deeply moved by how that resonated

• 1:04:45Speaker 01

  with people and that my transparency around that came across in the way I intended.

• 1:04:50Emma Grede?

  No, and I feel it felt very intentional. I was speaking to a friend about it last night and she was like, I would never do that though. And I was like, you wouldn't? Like, that is like so easy for me. In fact, I love to be alone with like, you know, when you have four kids and a husband, I'm like, sign me up. I want to go alone.

• 1:05:07Speaker 01

  That's exactly right. So a lot of people, I think, from their lives, it's so much happening all the time. They go away to get their space. Some people go to meet people. Some people go for a sense of adventure.

• 1:05:16Emma Grede?

  But what do you say to people that are just afraid to even do that for themselves?

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  Oh, I have many things to say. First of all, if it's something you want to do, but you're afraid to do it.

• 1:05:26Emma Grede?

  That's it.

• 1:05:27Speaker 01

  I would say, start with going to dinner by yourself. Start on a Wednesday night at six o'clock when the restaurant opens. If you can do that.

• 1:05:37Emma Grede?

  Just like easing them in.

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:05:39Emma Grede?

  Cause I know you're a Friday at eight in the best restaurant in town.

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:05:42Emma Grede?

  I literally have seen you and I'm like, she's eating alone, so I'm just gonna let her do that.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, she doesn't want.

• 1:05:48Emma Grede?

  Anyone to just come and bother her.

• 1:05:49Speaker 01

  Then you go for a Friday night at eight o'clock when everybody is there and the restaurant is bumping.

• 1:05:54Emma Grede?

  Easing our way in here.

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  And if you can do that, then the other thing I tell people is you can try going on a vacation that you already have planned and then tack on some days by yourself.

• 1:06:03Emma Grede?

  That's how I've done it.

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. Which is great. Or go somewhere you've been with other people and try going by yourself.

• 1:06:11Emma Grede?

  Oh, you have really nailed this down.

• 1:06:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:13Emma Grede?

  That the way that I do it is to get somewhere early before the rest of my family join.

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:18Emma Grede?

  Or I stay for a few days after. Like that for me just feels totally fine. I'm almost like setting it up for them.

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:06:23Emma Grede?

  You know?

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:24Emma Grede?

  Just trying it out here.

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  So I make sure I know, I know what's the best.

• 1:06:28Emma Grede?

  Making sure it's okay.

• 1:06:28Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:06:29Emma Grede?

  Yeah. Making sure you lot be comfortable.

• 1:06:32Speaker 01

  I'm doing service, you guys.

• 1:06:34Emma Grede?

  For the family.

• 1:06:35Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:06:35Emma Grede?

  For sake, why don't they understand why I don't wanna be with them?

• 1:06:42Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 1:06:43Emma Grede?

  But I'm very happy that this show has got a second season, cause it feels like it really.

• 1:06:46Speaker 01

  Will I go?

• 1:06:47Emma Grede?

  Yeah, where will you go?

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  I don't know, I have ideas.

• 1:06:49Emma Grede?

  The world is your oyster.

• 1:06:50Speaker 01

  It is my oyster.

• 1:06:51Emma Grede?

  Do you get to choose?

• 1:06:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:52Emma Grede?

  No.

• 1:06:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:54Emma Grede?

  Wow.

• 1:06:54Speaker 01

  I'm so excited.

• 1:06:55Emma Grede?

  And you're packing all those thousands of bags.

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. I feel like one episode, maybe we should try like, what happens if I just do a carry on? I think I would literally.

• 1:07:04Emma Grede?

  Disaster. You'd be lending things from people. Nothing on the door.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  Excuse me, excuse me.

• 1:07:10Emma Grede?

  I saw you wearing something yesterday.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  It would be an entire episode about shopping, but in all honesty, I say this.

• 1:07:17Emma Grede?

  What happens when you lose your bags? Has that happened to you?

• 1:07:19Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I can have every, the carry on, I could, I could live out of that carry on if I had to.

• 1:07:23Emma Grede?

  My husband does that. I have nothing of you in the carry on.

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:07:26Emma Grede?

  Now think, like 27 lip balms, not even a pair of knickers, like nothing to take me through to the next.

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  That is so funny. My carry on is so heavy, I cannot get it up. My, that Ramoa bag is like, it's like a rock. It's like, just a rock. It's so stuffed, I can barely close it.

• 1:07:43Emma Grede?

  I have no, I have like mountains of books, mountains of beauty products and nothing else.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  No, I literally, it's like, I could really, if I had to, I'd look cute for a week.

• 1:07:54Emma Grede?

  That for a week?

• 1:07:55Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:07:56Emma Grede?

  No.

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  I swear to God.

• 1:07:57Emma Grede?

  From a carry on.

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  I swear.

• 1:07:59Emma Grede?

  You need to do a lesson. You need to put that on the social.

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  I will. And by the way, so what I do is I lay everything out for packing, right? And then I sit there and I go, what would be the one pair of shoes?

• 1:08:11Emma Grede?

  Oh, that's gonna.

• 1:08:12Speaker 01

  The bathing suit and one look, two look, three look that can roll up teeny.

• 1:08:17Emma Grede?

  Wow.

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  And be great. And I could wear them in a whole bunch of different ways. And one bathing suit and then the cosmetics that, I mean, I literally could probably do it.

• 1:08:26Emma Grede?

  The Liothong.

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

  I'm telling you. And by the way, do you know how small this goes?

• 1:08:29Emma Grede?

  Yeah. Goes with everything.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:31Emma Grede?

  No, no, I see it. I literally am looking at it right now. That shoe goes with everything. Leopard is a neutral. I mean, it's not a joke.

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  I pack for beauty and disaster.

• 1:08:43Emma Grede?

  All the things.

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  Yes, all the things. I'm prepared.

• 1:08:46Emma Grede?

  Okay, so I want to talk a little bit about your legacy because I know that you had this epic 50th birthday party where you were in full celebration of your life.

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  I had three outfit changes.

• 1:08:56Emma Grede?

  I was gonna ask you how many outfits. I knew that there were multiple changes. She was like, I'm putting on.

• 1:09:01Speaker 01

  It was amazing.

• 1:09:02Emma Grede?

  All the things.

• 1:09:02Speaker 01

  God, it was amazing.

• 1:09:03Emma Grede?

  I have absolutely no doubt. I want to know if your life was a movie, what message would you want it to send out there?

• 1:09:11Speaker 01

  May you be comfortable in your skin, find what makes your heart sing, discover your purpose and be of service. That would be the message I want.

• 1:09:22Emma Grede?

  I think that you're given that.

• 1:09:24Speaker 01

  Yeah?

• 1:09:24Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  All right.

• 1:09:25Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  Do we don't need a movie?

• 1:09:26Emma Grede?

  I don't think we should do it. I'm not going lighting now. Anyway.

• 1:09:31Speaker 01

  Next, next.

• 1:09:33Emma Grede?

  I think it's so amazing though that you have, like, that you can come out with that and that's, that's who you are.

• 1:09:39Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 1:09:39Emma Grede?

  Like you're being, doing a really good job living up to your own.

• 1:09:43Speaker 01

  That's what happens when you don't have kids. You can actually like live it out. You know what I mean?

• 1:09:47Emma Grede?

  You're actually living.

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  I'm not doing this, I'm doing this.

• 1:09:50Emma Grede?

  Meanwhile, I'm like, I'm really control.

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  Is it working? Is it working?

• 1:09:56Emma Grede?

  Literally, literally. What advice would you give your younger self?

• 1:10:00Speaker 01

  Oh, hang in there, honey. Hang in there, honey.

• 1:10:03Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's gonna be okay.

• 1:10:05Emma Grede?

  Would you go back? Would you go back to 27?

• 1:10:07Speaker 01

  Fuck, no.

• 1:10:08Emma Grede?

  Everyone?

• 1:10:10Emma Grede?

  We need to do a compilation of me asking everyone. They go, fuck, like, fuck.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  Just no.

• 1:10:15Emma Grede?

  Never.

• 1:10:15Speaker 01

  No, I would not.

• 1:10:16Emma Grede?

  Not for all the, the, the skin and the, the

• 1:10:20Speaker 01

  Listen.

• 1:10:20Emma Grede?

  Energy and the

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  But what's crazy is I didn't even appreciate it.

• 1:10:24Emma Grede?

  I know.

• 1:10:24Speaker 01

  My skin was just tight like drum all over my body.

• 1:10:28Emma Grede?

  You didn't know.

• 1:10:28Speaker 01

  And I didn't even know. And I was busy complaining, oh, I can't wait up. Shush, shush, sweet little girl. Listen, no, I would not go back. I can tell you that it only gets better. It only gets better. The physicality is fascinating. I wouldn't even say it's hard. It's just fascinating, sometimes humorous, sometimes alarming. But absolutely fine. It's just different. But emotionally and spiritually, I mean, it is just delicious up here.

• 1:10:59Emma Grede?

  It's delicious.

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  And apparently, according to those in their 60s and 70s, it only gets better.

• 1:11:05Emma Grede?

  Is that what your mother says?

• 1:11:06Speaker 01

  My mom says, I have friends in their 60s, I have friends in their 70s, and they would not turn back the time.

• 1:11:12Emma Grede?

  No.

• 1:11:12Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:11:13Emma Grede?

  I don't think anyone wants to turn back the time. It's just like, it's not a good use.

• 1:11:17Speaker 01

  We have a culture that's obsessed with youth.

• 1:11:19Emma Grede?

  I know. I just think, I mean, our culture's obsessed with a lot of things that just aren't that good.

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  I totally agree.

• 1:11:27Emma Grede?

  They're stupid.

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  You guys, come on.

• 1:11:30Emma Grede?

  I'm like, what? Like, no, no.

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  That is very funny and totally true.

• 1:11:35Emma Grede?

  Totally true. They're stupid. Like, I don't even know what to say to them anymore.

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  I ignore that.

• 1:11:40Emma Grede?

  When you think about women and where we are right now, where we are in the kind of business landscape and leadership, where we are as, you know, just people evolving. I want to understand, like, what gives you hope? Like, how are you thinking about women now?

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  I just look around and I, every, all, women just give me hope. There's so many different versions of it. I see so many different kinds of women. So many different ways that women are defying what systemically is prescribed, you know? Defying cultural norms in a way that is the norm, but somehow we still keep thinking the other thing is the norm. Expanding real estate in the ways, and I don't mean physical, metaphoric real estate, around what we can be and have, and how we can be and have, you know? And to me, the how is what's kind of magical.

• 1:12:39Speaker 01

  I just see women constantly redefining how you do stuff, how to be a leader. You know, I look at it all the time and I'm just like, you guys still call that leadership? Like, what is that? That's not leadership. That's embarrassing. That's embarrassing. That should not be called leadership. Because I see this sense of shared leadership that benefits the collective, not just you. It's not just a power grab, but instead is like a culture expansion, you know? And so that, to me, I wouldn't even know how to name it other than when you see it, call it out, and thank those people.

• 1:13:21Emma Grede?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:13:22Emma Grede?

  We have to thank those people. You're one of those people.

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  Well, so are you.

• 1:13:26Emma Grede?

  Well, thank you, I'll take it. But you really are. All right, this is the rapid fire, we're gonna be quick.

• 1:13:30Speaker 01

  Do it.

• 1:13:31Emma Grede?

  First thing you do when you wake up?

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  Scrape my tongue.

• 1:13:33Emma Grede?

  You a tongue scraper? Is that the one thing I don't do?

• 1:13:36Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm not an animal. Are you an animal?

• 1:13:39Emma Grede?

  I'm an animal. I already started flossing like two minutes ago. I'm English animal. Mouth hygiene is not our thing, okay? Just gonna say.

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  I scrape my tongue.

• 1:13:47Emma Grede?

  Massively generalizing for all English people.

• 1:13:49Speaker 01

  It's either scrape my tongue or I roll up.

• 1:13:50Emma Grede?

  It's just so gross.

• 1:13:52Speaker 01

  That's why you want to take it off your tongue. But the other thing I will say is sometimes I also, it depends on which comes first. Slide down the side of my bed and say my prayers.

• 1:14:01Emma Grede?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:14:02Speaker 01

  Hi, God, it's me. Exactly.

• 1:14:07Emma Grede?

  Last thing you do before you go to bed? I check my phone. Oh, Tracy.

• 1:14:12Speaker 01

  I know, very bad, very bad.

• 1:14:14Emma Grede?

  Terrible.

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  It's terrible. I know, I know. At least it gets turned properly off.

• 1:14:20Emma Grede?

  That's a big, that's a big thing.

• 1:14:22Speaker 01

  There's no on, it's totally off.

• 1:14:23Emma Grede?

  All right, off, but there.

• 1:14:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I never, if I get up to use the ladies' room, I do not pick it up and turn it on.

• 1:14:30Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 1:14:30Speaker 01

  During the night, but people do that, people do that, I do not do that.

• 1:14:33Emma Grede?

  For sure. One solo trip that everyone should take at least once?

• 1:14:37Speaker 01

  Oh, to whatever your dream spot is.

• 1:14:41Emma Grede?

  You gotta do it.

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, you gotta do it.

• 1:14:43Emma Grede?

  You gotta do it. A book or a film that changed your perspective on life?

• 1:14:48Speaker 01

  When Things Fall Apart, Pay My Children. Yeah.

• 1:14:51Emma Grede?

  Has to be the one.

• 1:14:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:52Emma Grede?

  Something that you valued 10 years ago that you don't value now?

• 1:14:58Speaker 01

  A flat tummy.

• 1:15:01Emma Grede?

  That's a great answer. All right, then I'm gonna ask you a five versa. What is something that you value now that you didn't value 10 years ago?

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  Sleep.

• 1:15:11Speaker 01

  Sleep.

• 1:15:11Emma Grede?

  Ain't that the truth?

• 1:15:20Emma Grede?

  If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Our executive producers are Corinne, Gillian Fisher, Derek Brown, and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung Kaiser, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kirk Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado, and Arnie Agassi. Social media by Olivia Homan.

• 1:16:05Emma Grede?

  Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company, and WME. Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hillary Schaff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose,

• 1:16:16Emma Grede?

  Miko, Shaun Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemagreed. Greed is spelt G R E D E. That's aspire, A S P I R E with emagreed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emagreed.me.