Pod Insights THIS CAR POD! with Doug DeMuro & Friends! Is Ferrari Cool Again? Ranking Every BMW M5 Generation! The Ram TRX and Audi R8 Are Back from the Dead! About this episode Sell your cool car today on carsandbids.com
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Transcript 17,332 words · 7 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 Welcome to the 50th Hunger Games.
0:01 Speaker 01 Witness the beginning of the revolution.
0:04 Speaker 00 Hey Mitch, you've been trying to take down these games from the start.
0:07 Speaker 01 Filmed for IMAX.
0:08 Speaker 00 Make them remember you.
0:11 Speaker 01 The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Reaping, November 20th, rated PG-13.
0:15 Speaker 02 LinkedIn is pretty amazing at helping you grow your small business. We cannot stop your new clients from emailing you at 3 a.m.
0:24 Speaker 02 We can help you sell, market, and hire in one place. We cannot help you be in three places at once. And while we can't help you organize your calendar, LinkedIn can help you land more clients so you have a calendar to organize. Grow your small business on LinkedIn. Learn more at LinkedIn.com/smallbusiness.
0:49 Doug DeMuro? Hello and welcome to this car pie. I am Kenan.
0:53 Speaker 04 I'm Felipe.
0:54 Doug DeMuro? And let's do the news, starting with that. The Ram TRX, it has been revealed/leaked this week that the Ram TRX may return with a V8 as early as next year. Hell yeah, brother.
1:08 Speaker 04 The new CEO is doing things already.
1:10 Doug DeMuro? I will say, I drove the Ram RHO, which was the, not replacement for the TRX, but sort of the more down-scale replacement.
1:16 Speaker 04 Kind of labeled as that, though. When they came out, it was like, we don't want to have a TRX, we will have this.
1:20 Doug DeMuro? Well, their thinking was they wanted to compete directly with the Raptor, where the Raptor gets more sales, which honestly made sense. But, but it would be cooler still if they had both a TRX, which competed with the Raptor R, and a RHO that competed with the Raptor. I loved the RHO. However, it would be cool if the TRX came back. Now, will it come back with the Hellcat V8 and 700 whatever horsepower? There's no details. This leaked out of a dealer meeting, I think.
1:43 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:44 Doug DeMuro? So we don't know anything. But it is, it would be interesting if Chrysler started coming back to the V8 fold. Let's bring them back.
1:50 Speaker 04 There was a related news story where there was some quote from some FCA executive saying that they had an act, they had previously said there weren't going to be V8 chargers of any kind. They haven't actually ruled that out anymore.
2:02 Doug DeMuro? Right. We reported on that a couple of days ago. They're, they're clearly starting to rethink, reverse course on a few things. Well, regardless of the whole emissions EV political thing, when your sales numbers go where theirs went, and when your days' supply goes where theirs has gone, you have to make different strategic decisions.
2:22 Speaker 04 And when you already have a V8 that's just kind of there.
2:24 Doug DeMuro? And that people love. And it was beloved.
2:27 Speaker 04 Yeah.
2:29 Speaker 05 Yeah.
2:29 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
2:29 Speaker 05 I mean.
2:30 Doug DeMuro? Stuff it in the ram. Decisions must be made.
2:32 Speaker 05 This is the signature, this is the.
2:34 Doug DeMuro? In order to save the company and so they will save the company. And you know what? Filippo and I will both buy, mark our words, we will both buy Hellcat powered two door Wranglers.
2:45 Speaker 05 I can think of. Yeah, I love.
2:47 Doug DeMuro? I mean, like, I would. Could you imagine if such a vehicle existed? I fully. Did you ever drive the 392? No, sadly. We drove the V8 Defender two door and that was sketchy. Yeah, but I always felt the 392 wasn't enough. What? You felt the Wrangler 392 wasn't enough? Uh, what would you? It had 470 horsepower. What would you? 707. You want the? I want the Hellcat. You wanted it all. Wanted it all. Okay. Okay. Uh, but anyway, this is interesting and continues to go along with the theme we've now been reporting about for like two months, which is more automakers kind of easing off the whole EV plug-in hybrid thing and easing back to V8s. What a sound. You like that? No. Okay. Speaking of V8s, move on to the next news story.
3:28 Speaker 05 Oh, it doesn't have anything to do with V8s, but.
3:30 Doug DeMuro? Who knows what motor Formula One is running now? It's probably a 1.2 liter, one cylinder.
3:34 Speaker 05 Uh, no, it's a, it's a, they're power units and they're twin turbocharged hybrid V6s, but we'll move on.
3:39 Doug DeMuro? Ooh. Like that effect. So I'm not a Formula One fan.
3:42 Speaker 05 Explain the story.
3:43 Doug DeMuro? In, in my day, Formula, Carrera GT, Formula One had V10s. That's all I'm saying.
3:47 Speaker 05 That's a, like, keep dreaming.
3:49 Doug DeMuro? It did, in my day. Cadillac is back in, is, is, is going into Formula One and I have decided therefore, here's the big news story. I'm going to be a Formula One. Wow. Yeah. They're, they're not going to re-enter until 26.
4:01 Speaker 05 I know. They, that, that, yeah, you being.
4:03 Doug DeMuro? We all know all this stuff because we talked about it beforehand.
4:06 Speaker 05 Yes, but as the actual Formula One fan, you're, you're not even a fair weather fan. You're just, you're, you only like.
4:12 Doug DeMuro? America's here and so am I.
4:14 Speaker 05 Well, Haas F1's been here for a long time, but we'll move on.
4:17 Doug DeMuro? Haas, that sounds German. Not interested.
4:19 Speaker 05 Yep, Gene Haas, a NASCAR dynasty that, yeah, it has to be German. What? You, you know so little about motorsport, it hurts.
4:25 Doug DeMuro? What do you find? Well, I know everything about kart.
4:28 Speaker 05 Oh my god, just IMSA? He just, he just gets little glimpses of things and holds on to them as like his motorcycle.
4:34 Doug DeMuro? But it's enough a lot of the time to make it seem like I'm not an idiot. Now, on this podcast, it's not enough, and I do seem like an idiot. But when I'm in conversation, I'm like, oh yeah, IMSA, yeah, turn seven over at the motorsports park. People are like, oh, I know.
4:47 Speaker 05 Right, yeah. Anyway, yes, Cadillac has been officially confirmed that Cadillac will be entering Formula One as the 11th team on the grid. So, which is a big deal. To get into Formula One is incredibly difficult, very expensive and highly political. But Cadillac has done it. Ferrari will be providing the engines as they had announced earlier. But they, of course, were like, if they're confirmed, it's like, we kind of had a good feeling they were going to be confirmed.
5:08 Doug DeMuro? This isn't where Ferrari is doing the engines? There's not going to be a North Star in these cars?
5:11 Speaker 05 No, no North Star V8s. It won't be that.
5:14 Doug DeMuro? Oh, yeah.
5:14 Speaker 05 Cadillac, GM has said that they will develop an engine for the car eventually, but it's really hard to do. So they're going to start with, they will be one of the customer suppliers.
5:23 Doug DeMuro? General Motors is going to develop a Formula One engine in suburban Detroit. Think about that.
5:30 Speaker 05 Yeah.
5:30 Doug DeMuro? Brave new world. It shows you how exciting and how popular Formula One has gotten.
5:35 Speaker 05 Yeah.
5:35 Doug DeMuro? Netflix changed everything.
5:37 Speaker 05 Liberty Media specifically, yes.
5:39 Doug DeMuro? Netflix and other things, yeah, like had a huge effect, and now everybody's into this. Why isn't Porsche in Formula One yet?
5:44 Speaker 05 Porsche was like going back and forth, is my understanding. I don't really know why not, admittedly, just to your current GT's engine point. They don't have the best track record in Formula One.
5:54 Doug DeMuro? Well, but you think Cadillac does?
5:56 Speaker 05 No.
5:57 Doug DeMuro? No track record is better than a bad track record. You get my point, though. Like, this is now the stage and everybody's watching. It's not like where like Le Mans used to be a thing and maybe you could compete at GT racing and Formula One is everybody's watching.
6:09 Speaker 05 True, yes, but to your point, Le Mans has also grown substantially in popularity and Porsche is just putting more effort. I mean, Formula One is...
6:15 Doug DeMuro? We want to see Porsche and Formula One going up against Cadillac and Ferrari.
6:18 Speaker 05 I think also Audi is like going to be entering Formula One. So I think Porsche is like, or Volkswagen is like, that's enough.
6:24 Doug DeMuro? You know what we got to do? We got to stop having teams that aren't cars and start having only car teams.
6:30 Speaker 05 Yep.
6:30 Doug DeMuro? So Red Bull, I still don't really understand that.
6:32 Speaker 05 Unless they make the cars, they could start making cars.
6:34 Doug DeMuro? Unless, they were going to make that supercar, weren't they? That like hypercar?
6:37 Speaker 05 Yeah.
6:37 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, one of six.
6:38 Speaker 04 Didn't they have some news about hoping to have an American driver?
6:42 Doug DeMuro? No, they said they wouldn't hire an American driver just because he's American. They're gonna hire their best driver.
6:47 Speaker 05 Which is the absolute right decision.
6:49 Doug DeMuro? They're not gonna do D E I.
6:50 Speaker 04 Not gonna D E I.
6:52 Doug DeMuro? Can I ask you a question about this?
6:54 Speaker 05 Yes.
6:54 Doug DeMuro? I'm looking at the picture of the Formula One car, and to be frank with you, this is the first time I've looked at a Formula One car in probably five years. This bar right in front of the driver's face strikes me as an issue because if I'm driving the car, I'd prefer there not to be a bar right in front of my face.
7:08 Speaker 05 Well, now, that was the debate when the Halo was out to the car.
7:11 Doug DeMuro? The driver said it was the drivers don't want a bar in front of their face. What was the other side of the debate? Pray tell.
7:16 Speaker 05 That it saves lives, and it does.
7:17 Doug DeMuro? Why not put the pillars here and here or something?
7:20 Speaker 05 Evidently, this is the most aerodynamic and structurally sound way to do it.
7:23 Doug DeMuro? So they're saving lives by reducing visibility?
7:26 Speaker 05 But it hasn't been a problem. It's been that way for years now, and drivers have gotten, A, used to it, and B, they just don't complain about it. Indy cars, the same way. They use the same thing. So, yeah, but the Halo has legitimately saved lives. I've watched it save lives while racing, so it's a big deal. And yes, although it is not the prettiest thing, and yes, it is directly in front of you, evidently, it's not really a problem.
7:46 Doug DeMuro? I am legitimately and honestly excited for Cadillac's Formula One. I don't think I will actually become a fan, but every weekend I might say to you, hey, man, how'd Cadillac do?
7:55 Speaker 05 Are you gonna ask me?
7:56 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, I'll ask you. I don't know how to look it up, so I'm gonna ask you.
7:58 Speaker 05 It's very easy.
8:00 Doug DeMuro? We probably just Google F1 results, but then it says stuff like such and such driver, and I don't know who people are.
8:05 Speaker 05 Because you won't actually watch the racing.
8:07 Doug DeMuro? No, it's a lot of time. It's also early or late, depending.
8:10 Speaker 05 Yeah, you know, but you can watch it back, which is what I usually do. I stay off social media until I've watched the race, and then I go back on social media.
8:17 Doug DeMuro? The first race is this weekend.
8:18 Speaker 04 I thought you were off Formula One.
8:20 Speaker 05 No, I was off last year because it was clear in May that Max Verstappen was gonna win the championship, which I called him. My friends were like, that's ridiculous. It could still happen. Well, guess what happened? He won the championship. What a big surprise. And I said, despite being a Ferrari fan my entire life, I said Ferrari's going to lose, and guess what? Cannon was right again. So this year, though, I'm watching it because I'm very excited. It relates to a story we'll tell a little bit later, but Lewis Hamilton is driving for Ferrari, I think. And 2026 is a big year because that's when the regulations change. Every now and again, Formula One updates everything. They update the rules and the technicalities and stuff that the teams have to partake in order to compete. That all changes for 26. That's when Cadillac is joining. This year's kind of a throwaway year because they're putting all their R and D toward next year to be competitive.
9:01 Doug DeMuro? I'll tell you this.
9:02 Speaker 05 It's kind of a refresh.
9:03 Doug DeMuro? It's not a throwaway for Lewis.
9:05 Speaker 05 It's not a throwaway for Lewis Hamilton, but yes. Nonetheless, I am excited. I will be watching all the races. The first race is this weekend. Saturday night. It's in Melbourne, Australia, which was where they've started traditionally for a while now.
9:17 Doug DeMuro? Can I ask you a question?
9:18 Speaker 05 Post-COVID, yes.
9:19 Doug DeMuro? What if Cadillac wins the championship? Is that still a Ferrari win? Do you not understand what I'm saying?
9:23 Speaker 05 Oh, as an engine supplier?
9:24 Doug DeMuro? As an engine supplier. Would you be like Ferrari won because Cadillac won?
9:28 Speaker 05 No, I'm not that much of a jerk. I wouldn't say the Cadillac won. I mean, I would say Cadillac won.
9:32 Doug DeMuro? Cadillac win.
9:33 Speaker 05 But they would be a little ask to risk for me, but I'll tell you this. I bet you they don't win on their first season. I don't think any team is ever.
9:40 Doug DeMuro? Do you think it's a little weird that Cadillac is going incredibly hard into this competitive, high-performance sport without a vehicle to sell to anybody who's watching?
9:48 Speaker 04 CT5 V Blackwing, CT4 V Blackwing, Escalade V, Escalade IQL.
9:52 Doug DeMuro? Escalade IQL. No, but I mean, really, like the V Blackwings are the correct answer. But they're pretty low production and you can't imagine.
10:00 Speaker 04 Maybe they'll change.
10:01 Doug DeMuro? Oh, okay.
10:03 Speaker 04 Heard it here first.
10:04 Doug DeMuro? Speaking of Halo sports cars, our next news story is the Audi R8. This is an old Audi R8, drove by Audi dealer in San Diego yesterday. They still got one.
10:11 Speaker 04 What?
10:12 Doug DeMuro? Yikes. And I'll tell you something, interest rates where they are and the stock market where it is, I didn't go anywhere for a while. This is a Lamborghini John Tamarinian and Audi reportedly is going to make an R8 based on the Tamarinian. Now, this is not a surprise because the last two generations of R8 have also been based on the Lamborghinis, the Gallardo and the Huracan. And so they're going to do it again.
10:35 Speaker 04 I thought the R8 was gone.
10:37 Doug DeMuro? They said that the last R8 was last, but they left the door open that it could come back.
10:42 Speaker 04 The R8 was the most successful Halo car I can think of.
10:47 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
10:48 Speaker 05 It's the first gen specifically.
10:49 Speaker 04 The first gen. After that point, it was whatever.
10:52 Doug DeMuro? The way it got successful was a formula that they can no longer do, trying to work economies of scale. Because ultimately, the John Tamarinian is going to cost 350 grand.
10:59 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah.
10:59 Doug DeMuro? And so this will cost 275 grand. The R8, when it came out in 08, was 90 grand or 98 or something. Like, and I know there's been inflation, but there hasn't been ForEx. Like, this car, because they need to share the parts with Lambo, has become so expensive that it no longer does what it did. But what did?
11:16 Speaker 04 It was big, but also what does a Halo car do for Audi now? I don't.
11:20 Speaker 05 They're established now, yeah.
11:21 Doug DeMuro? It's still cool in the showrooms.
11:23 Speaker 04 It is still cool in the showrooms.
11:24 Doug DeMuro? And what it'll have undoubtedly.
11:27 Doug DeMuro? What it'll have undoubtedly is a plug-in powertrain and they're desperately trying to sell electric cars.
11:32 Speaker 04 That's a great point.
11:33 Doug DeMuro? And so that'll be.
11:34 Speaker 04 Yeah, to go more in on that.
11:36 Doug DeMuro? All right, give us our next news story, please. Ah, yes.
11:40 Speaker 04 Nissan.
11:40 Doug DeMuro? A man standing in front of a Nissan.
11:42 Speaker 04 Which means it's Filippo's story. Yeah, Nissan has a new CEO. So you guys may remember that there were talks of a merger with Honda. Started as a merger of equals, quickly became Nissan could be a subsidiary. Honda, or excuse me, Nissan very much backed away. The CEO that orchestrated that is now gone. Makoto Uchida left last week.
12:01 Doug DeMuro? What's this fellow's name?
12:02 Speaker 04 This fellow's name is Ivan Espinoza. He is Mexican born.
12:05 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
12:06 Speaker 04 And he is, was formerly something senior in operations.
12:11 Speaker 04 Director of global planning, some of that.
12:14 Doug DeMuro? Geez.
12:14 Speaker 04 Sorry, chief planning officer.
12:15 Doug DeMuro? It's amazing to me that these companies that fail continue to promote from within. Director of global planning for Nissan.
12:20 Speaker 04 Right.
12:20 Doug DeMuro? Is he responsible for giving us the absolute disaster of an Altima for the last five generations?
12:27 Speaker 04 Probably, but I will say all, there's a lot of auto enthusiasts that are somewhat excited because he is known to be more into enthusiast cars. He said a couple of years ago that he was working really hard to make a return of the Sylvia happen, which was Nissan's two-door sport coupe. He was trying to orchestrate that because he really cares about enthusiasts and enthusiasts driving the brand forward.
12:48 Doug DeMuro? Is he the one that let the GT-R languish for the last 19 years without any updates?
12:53 Speaker 04 I don't know. The question is that, right? Like, how much power did he have that, did he not have that he now has to do what he wants? Or is that just what he wants?
13:02 Doug DeMuro? The question is, and we're getting a little technical here and Ken's not gonna like it, but does the board want the merger? And do they feel that this person is merger?
13:08 Speaker 04 There have been.
13:09 Doug DeMuro? Is merger likely?
13:11 Speaker 04 I will say there have been some rumors and some like leaks, reporters saying that the merger could be back on the table. But when the board voted him in, they, at least in what they announced publicly and what has been revealed about that board meeting, they did not talk at all about the merger.
13:25 Doug DeMuro? I'm gonna tell you right now, the merger's happening.
13:27 Speaker 04 The merger's back on, at least. It's back in contention in a way it wasn't before.
13:30 Doug DeMuro? No, no, no, no. I'm telling you right now, I'm not saying it's back on.
13:32 Speaker 04 He's calling.
13:33 Doug DeMuro? You're reading the paper. I'm telling you, this merger's happening. Nissan will fail without it because it is a failure of a company and has been my entire adult life.
13:40 Speaker 04 The O3 Altima?
13:41 Doug DeMuro? The O3 Altima was, I was a child, but it changed the world. And it was O2.
13:46 Speaker 04 And it was still a failure.
13:47 Doug DeMuro? No, it was successful.
13:48 Speaker 04 Yeah.
13:49 Doug DeMuro? That car changed the whole world because everybody had to copy that car. It's the only time in history that everybody copied Nissan.
13:54 Speaker 04 Yeah. The Maxima came out in O3. There are two options, right? Clearly, if you fire the board because your stock tanked after you withdrew from merger negotiations, you probably want to either do something that makes the market think that you're serious about rebuilding of the brand or that you're serious about the merger.
14:09 Doug DeMuro? It could be a little bit either.
14:10 Speaker 04 I'm telling you, the merger is, this company cannot continue to succeed. Yeah, because of a lot of lease obligations.
14:15 Doug DeMuro? It's a ninth-rate company making 11th-rate cars.
14:19 Speaker 04 You know their big mistake over the last couple of years?
14:21 Doug DeMuro? Uh, I can name so many.
14:23 Speaker 04 That impacts their finances because they do still sell cars, but their residuals are so far off of what they modeled. I'm overthinking a little bit, but they have a real problem with the result.
14:33 Doug DeMuro? You know what's funny about Nissan? I'll never forget when they came out with an electric car before anybody else. Remember this? In fall of 2010, they came out with the Leaf and the world has changed. And a mass-market electric car is here. And you know, after all these years, you know what electric cars Nissan has? There's the Leaf.
14:49 Speaker 04 There's another one.
14:50 Doug DeMuro? And I think, you want to say the Aria? You think that that, you think that 15 years of R&D got us the Aria? I got a buddy who just leased an Aria for $199 a month with zero down, okay?
15:01 Speaker 04 That's what I think all Aria leases are.
15:02 Doug DeMuro? That's a cellphone bill.
15:37 Speaker 06 Hold your horses, there's more. The app lets you filter hotels by neighborhood, vibe, star level, and amenities like pools and spas and beachfronts. Wait, I'm not done. Stop cutting me off.
15:50 Speaker 04 Yeah, I mean, look, they're not.
15:52 Doug DeMuro? They got a car. It's a good deal, actually. There's tires and stuff.
15:57 Speaker 04 As part of some of their press releases, Nissan has taken a bunch of steps to apparently make product development less expensive and faster, which is a.
16:06 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, they're gonna make even worse cars.
16:09 Speaker 04 Yeah, there's gonna be a merger.
16:10 Speaker 05 Yeah, so it's great that they have an enthusiast too.
16:13 Speaker 04 Mergers is a strong word. There's gonna be an act with a transition.
16:16 Speaker 05 It's great that they have an enthusiast who is at a senior position, but that doesn't really mean anything if the company doesn't make any money.
16:21 Speaker 04 Yep.
16:22 Speaker 05 So like.
16:22 Speaker 04 They're gonna make money because they're gonna be part of Honda, and Honda makes money, so it's all gonna work out great.
16:26 Speaker 05 Well, Honda's just, you gotta imagine, just gonna.
16:28 Speaker 04 Yeah. And then we'll see economies of scale. Maybe there'll be a Honda GT-R. It is one thing that is interesting. First time that somebody at Nissan from North America is in charge.
16:40 Doug DeMuro? Well, well, North America's been a resounding success story, so it's great.
16:45 Speaker 04 I will say one thing on that. We're Nissan's only market, let's be honest.
16:48 Doug DeMuro? Japan, Asia. They sell in Asia. You can go to Asia. There's Nissans everywhere. It's the only place they sell.
16:53 Speaker 04 Growth market.
16:54 Doug DeMuro? And Australia.
16:56 Speaker 04 There may be something there.
16:57 Doug DeMuro? And Mexico, which this guy's seeing Tesurus around his whole life. They're like, give the Tesuru guy the reins.
17:05 Speaker 04 Right, I mean, it's been the same for the last 30 years.
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18:29 Speaker 04 We can share it.
18:31 Doug DeMuro? Trump and Elon were selling cars at the White House, folks. This is good content.
18:38 Doug DeMuro? This is good. God, the White House, the most storied building in the world, and this is the crappy awning they come up with.
18:44 Speaker 04 Right.
18:44 Doug DeMuro? The crappy temporary awning is supported by metal poles.
18:48 Speaker 04 All right. I think we should give a little bit of context.
18:51 Doug DeMuro? Historic building.
18:52 Speaker 05 Right. Yes, yeah, exactly. The most powerful leaders in the world have been near this thing, and the best thing to come up with something that looks like you're going into like a cheap restaurant.
19:00 Doug DeMuro? It really does. Cheap restaurant in New York, mob money's running through it.
19:03 Speaker 05 Exactly.
19:04 Doug DeMuro? So the context is this. Elon Musk is working for Trump. They're trying to efficientize the government. They're not doing the greatest job so far. However, because now everybody hates Elon and Tesla's stock is taking and the sales have been a complete disaster, Trump's out there saying, hey, my buddy Elon makes good cars. Like, let's get some cars. And so Trump reportedly bought a Tesla. Is that true?
19:23 Speaker 04 He has said that he would buy a Tesla. He said in a Truth Social, which is his social media platform, that it was what people were doing is illegal to not to denigrate the Tesla brand.
19:33 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
19:33 Speaker 04 And that he would do a press release. I personally prefer the photo that also had a Cybertruck, but I'll.
19:37 Doug DeMuro? Do you know on Truth Social, when you retweet something, do you know what it's called? It's called a re-truth.
19:43 Speaker 04 I never spoke that it's not his social media platform, there's another one.
19:48 Doug DeMuro? The point is this, he's out there in front of some sort of model S, car designed in 2012, during another great Republican president Barack Obama.
19:59 Doug DeMuro? No, I'm kidding.
19:59 Speaker 04 But Facebook did once.
20:00 Doug DeMuro? That's what the hardcore libs think.
20:04 Doug DeMuro? And, and he's out there trying to tell people to buy a Tesla. I didn't read a lot of the news stories about this because the whole thing seemed kind of insane, but also like on Trump's brand. People are freaking out and I'm like,
20:12 Speaker 04 Do you remember that from his first term, that photo of, I think it was Monica Trump with the Goya beans?
20:18 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
20:19 Speaker 04 Same energy.
20:21 Doug DeMuro? And the MyPillow guy?
20:22 Speaker 05 I think it was the McDonald's he bought for the, that's more what this feels like to me. That's the best one.
20:28 Speaker 04 All right, here's what we're talking about. Tesla has increasingly, Tesla's always been really linked to Elon Musk. That made it really popular for a long, long, long, long time.
20:36 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
20:37 Speaker 04 Now that Elon Musk has become very much associated with, let's call it conservative, maybe the alt-right, depending on how you want to view it, that's impacted the brand.
20:47 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
20:47 Speaker 04 Tesla market cap, so how much the brand is worth, has about halved over the last month.
20:52 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
20:53 Speaker 04 It was, it's now worth, still just shy of $800 billion. It was worth about twice that.
20:58 Doug DeMuro? Still more than all the other crap that he's put together, but.
21:01 Speaker 04 That's a fairly precipitous drop.
21:04 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
21:05 Speaker 04 Which is why I think there's been some, President Trump had this photo op to try to support Elon's brand. We talked a lot last week about kind of where Tesla's at, and I think that still holds true. Tesla stock is up today, 7%.
21:18 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, but it's going on crazy rides because the market's going on crazy rides because of the whole Trump situation. But I will tell you, it's an interesting situation. Tesla is no law, I mean, we talked about this last week, but to really hammer the point home, the fact that the president is out there shilling Teslas in front of the White House.
21:35 Speaker 04 Yeah.
21:35 Doug DeMuro? That kind of, that ain't a great look for this brand that formerly relied solely on like word of mouth and Elon's tweets to sell cars. Every, every story I read is that sales numbers continue to decline significantly.
21:48 Speaker 04 They're in trouble with the Canadian government right now because of some tax credit.
21:52 Doug DeMuro? Oh boy.
21:52 Speaker 04 I thought that was a, I thought that was a, two dealers sold 5,000 cars.
21:57 Doug DeMuro? Let me tell you something. Don't look too close at BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche at the end of the quarter, at the end of the year. Or any brand, honestly.
22:05 Speaker 04 Yeah.
22:06 Doug DeMuro? Because we used to punch cars, you know, the dealers would punch cars as service owners or whatever to get some sales done. Maybe the dealer didn't need 5,000 service owners, but the point remained. The car business, I think there are some shady moments in the car business, okay? This isn't one of them. It's in the bright sunlight.
22:20 Speaker 04 Nice. Under, it's kind of under the morning.
22:23 Doug DeMuro? Um, anyway, regardless, the main focus of this story is that Elon has probably hurt both his own personal brand and undoubtedly Tesla's brand by getting involved in this, in the government. Politics are tough regardless of how you want to go into it. And if you want it, this is a good example of if you want to sell things, you probably shouldn't get political. You know, the conservatives did this whole go woke, go broke thing and boycotted stuff, which was effective. This is kind of the same thing in the opposite direction. Maybe not as organized, but a lot of people are sitting around saying, I don't want to be a part of this. And a lot of stockholders are just anxious because they don't know where this is going to go and if it's going to get worse. And it ain't pretty right now.
22:56 Speaker 04 And if you're a stockholder, especially a major one, you're responding both to sales declining quickly.
23:01 Doug DeMuro? Yep.
23:02 Speaker 04 The EV market being iffy.
23:04 Doug DeMuro? Iffy in general.
23:06 Speaker 04 And then the political part on top of sales declining.
23:09 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
23:09 Speaker 04 Which had just accelerated.
23:10 Doug DeMuro? Which, which is, which is probably the biggest uncertainty for investors. Like, is there going to be another Elon Musk, you know, Hitler moment? Whether or not you agree with what happened, like the public perception was not great that came out of that. And it's not great for the brand.
23:21 Speaker 04 Of course, the market cap is still 20x what Ford is.
23:24 Doug DeMuro? Ford, but Ford, but what does Ford have really? The tempo? All right, give us our next news.
23:29 Speaker 05 The tempo. Ah, yes. All right. So switching topics completely.
23:33 Doug DeMuro? Yep.
23:34 Speaker 05 There's a new Morgan. Now you might look at this vehicle and think, wow, that looks a hell of a lot like the old Morgan, as all Morgans do.
23:39 Speaker 04 It always has three windshield wipers.
23:41 Speaker 05 That, yes. That's one of, yes, that is something that they're into. So this is the Morgan Supersports, and they're saying it's a ground up new development, new chassis, new fully aluminum body, so no wood. I know that's what you're thinking.
23:51 Speaker 04 Is that not wood in the photo?
23:52 Doug DeMuro? He doesn't know.
23:53 Speaker 05 There's no wood, it is aluminium. And so, like to say, but. There are a couple of interesting things. One is this, it comes with this hardtop, which evidently is something they haven't come with in the past. They were very proud of this, maybe like a huge deal of it. Again, this is Morgan.
24:05 Doug DeMuro? Well, because I think that the previous ones, the way to get a hardtop was you had to get the coupe.
24:09 Speaker 05 Well, they would do, and yes, or they would do an after, they would sell you a third-party one from them, but they wouldn't build themselves. Well, this one they built themselves.
24:17 Speaker 04 The five people that work at Morgan must be so proud. Tell us the most important part.
24:21 Speaker 05 Well, the most important part really is how much it weighs.
24:24 Doug DeMuro? I was gonna say the BMW powertrain and automatic transmission, but sure.
24:27 Speaker 05 The weight, well, there are a couple of different, so the Supersport is powered by the B58 six-cylinder, which everybody loves. And that's what people say.
24:35 Doug DeMuro? Wait, that's the motor in the X3 M40?
24:37 Speaker 05 That's, yeah, that's the six, that's the 35 horsepower six-cylinder engine. Yes, that's, it's like one of the most ubiquitous engines.
24:44 Speaker 04 Powerful engine for a car that doesn't weigh anything.
24:46 Speaker 05 Well, yes, because it weighs, wet, 2,579 pounds.
24:50 Doug DeMuro? Whoa, wow.
24:51 Speaker 05 Wet, crazy lightweight. But again, it's because Morgan is such a low-volume manufacturer, they don't have to comply with certain regulations, and so like, they're able to make these cars.
24:59 Doug DeMuro? So you'll die in one?
25:00 Speaker 05 How, well, yes, of course, die in any car. But it's zero to 16 in four seconds, 165 mile an hour top speed, not huge numbers, but for Morgan.
25:08 Doug DeMuro? Tell us about the transmission.
25:10 Speaker 05 Yeah, automatic only.
25:11 Doug DeMuro? They're not doing a stick at all?
25:12 Speaker 05 Not doing a manual for this.
25:13 Doug DeMuro? A T C F or what? Isn't the whole point of this car that like, it's an, like, the type of people buying this are like, old-school analog?
25:19 Speaker 04 They're getting old-school analog kind of type of dudes are getting older.
25:22 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, but why would you buy one of these if you can't get a manual? Isn't?
25:25 Speaker 05 I agree, it's about the experience.
25:26 Doug DeMuro? Isn't the whole thing about the experience, like, I could get a Cayman anywhere.
25:29 Speaker 04 Why do people swap automatics into first-gen Vipers? Because they can't drive a manual anymore.
25:33 Doug DeMuro? Who swaps automatics?
25:34 Speaker 04 There are a few, they're around.
25:35 Doug DeMuro? Seven, and there are five of them are for drag racing, and two of them are for amputees, got nothing to do with this.
25:40 Speaker 05 But he's like, he's over here saying they're all automatics. Anyway, the people is swapping them in the afternoon with a couple of cold ones, but the thing, yeah, they're going, they're saying they're going, they're going to try, I would imagine, to produce 850 of these a year, and they only produce about, or they're, sorry, they're gonna produce 200 a year, they only produce 850 cars total a year.
25:58 Speaker 04 Well, I mean, we don't know what else in their lineup, so that's.
26:00 Speaker 05 Oh, I, I do. Uh, so they're also, so they're doing this, they also are doing a, uh, so they're doing a four-cylinder version too, and guess which one we're getting in the United States?
26:08 Doug DeMuro? Uh.
26:09 Speaker 05 The four-cylinder. We're not getting the six-cylinder. They're not going to sell it, at least for now.
26:14 Doug DeMuro? I can't believe they're even gonna attempt to sell this here at all.
26:16 Speaker 05 They allegedly, they are trying. They spent millions and millions to get the four cylinder one compliant with US regulations.
26:22 Doug DeMuro? But the BPC8 sold here in 30 trillion cars.
26:23 Speaker 05 I understand, but evidently they're struggling to do it.
26:26 Doug DeMuro? What four cylinder?
26:26 Speaker 05 The four, what do you mean?
26:28 Doug DeMuro? What engine is in a four?
26:29 Speaker 05 Also BMW engine, BMW turbocharged four cylinder. So.
26:31 Doug DeMuro? He doesn't know that.
26:32 Speaker 05 I don't know. The current.
26:32 Doug DeMuro? It's the one BMW engine code he doesn't know. Who gives a?
26:35 Speaker 05 I don't.
26:35 Doug DeMuro? Care. He doesn't get into, he doesn't get into four. He doesn't get into four cylinders.
26:39 Speaker 05 No, but anyway, so the, the price of it were to be sold in the US would be a hundred and thirty one thousand dollars.
26:43 Doug DeMuro? Hundred and thirty one US for a four cylinder BMW powered automatic car. I could get a Z4 for like 60.
26:49 Speaker 05 For this one, it will be less. For this one, if it were to sell here, that's what they're saying. If they get it here, that's what it will sell for. That's like equivalent selling.
26:55 Doug DeMuro? Inexplicable how much I would not buy this car. Inexplicable. If it had three pedals and a six cylinder, and by six cylinder, I mean turbo V8, I would consider it, but I don't.
27:05 Speaker 05 So you consider the previous supersport is what you're saying?
27:07 Doug DeMuro? Oh, yeah. And as you know, I went to the dealer several times, drove them, ultimately landed on a, um, uh, competitor. Okay, move on to the next news story. This is not really a competitor. 200 cars a year.
27:17 Speaker 05 Yes. Ah, so Porsche has, we've been saying that a lot of manufacturers are rolling back to, well, Porsche, that doesn't mean they've stopped.
27:24 Doug DeMuro? No, they're still good.
27:25 Speaker 05 Porsche was recently spotted testing their EV Cayenne coupe. So like, yes, they might be saying that they are going to be making gasoline engines for a long time. Does not mean that development has stopped on EVs. I've told everybody that although we're seeing this, it's a stopgap. EVs seem to be the way things are going, but right now they're just not there yet. And it seems that Porsche is committing to that with their more utilitarian vehicles.
27:47 Doug DeMuro? I'm excited for this to look identical to the current Cayenne. No, if that's it, it's not going to look identical. I know. I don't know what this is. I guess the non coupe, but if that's what it is, then it's not going to look like the Cayenne. Somehow it will. Because every Cayenne has looked identical. Looks like the Macan. No, the Macan EV looks separate. The more of them I see, the more I'm like, that doesn't look any, they've somehow made a car that both simultaneously looks like the car and doesn't. Which is impressive. Which is also the new G-Wagon. I remember when they revealed the G-Wagon in 18, I was like, that looks just like the old one. And now whenever I see one, I'm like, that doesn't look a thing like the old one. What are you thinking? You can't tell the G-Wagon apart from. Of course I can. That's what I'm saying. I can. You can't. My wife cannot. Okay. Uh, alright. This is a lot of news to digest, folks. I hope you figured it all out.
28:30 Speaker 05 But there's one more piece of news.
28:31 Doug DeMuro? Oh, God.
28:32 Speaker 05 This one, this one I like. So again, Formula One starts this weekend. There's a lot of hype building up to it. And one of the things is that Lewis Hamilton posted a video today on his Instagram. We filmed this today on his Instagram. And it's on YouTube too, where Paramount Pictures spliced him into the Ferris Bueller movie, like perfectly. It, evidently, he was a big fan of the movie. It's my favorite movie.
28:52 Doug DeMuro? Oh, he's the garage attendant?
28:53 Speaker 05 He's the garage attendant, yeah. And so he does the whole thing. He says, "Do you speak English?" He goes, "What country do you think this is?" And like, does that whole thing, um, and drives off in the car. And they did, I mean-
29:02 Doug DeMuro? Zoom up to where he drives off in the car.
29:04 Speaker 05 They did a masterful job of it. But here's him get, I mean, look how perfect that is.
29:08 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's talking to Cameron.
29:09 Speaker 05 He's talking to Cameron, and he's getting in the car, and Cameron goes-
29:11 Doug DeMuro? Remember when Cameron crashed at Rivian a couple of weeks ago? Months ago?
29:14 Speaker 05 You don't have anything to worry about. I'm a professional.
29:16 Doug DeMuro? Keep going, keep going. Arrow us forward here. Ah, there he takes the car off.
29:21 Speaker 05 Takes the-
29:21 Doug DeMuro? Let's see him do the, the jump, or do they not do it?
29:24 Speaker 05 They do the jump, and they did the jump with the actor who plays-
29:26 Doug DeMuro? Oh, look at it.
29:27 Speaker 05 So there it goes, taking off.
29:29 Doug DeMuro? And look at that. Go back one. Pause it.
29:33 Speaker 05 I know it's not-
29:33 Doug DeMuro? Saab 900. Look at this, Chicago in the, what, 88? Chrysler Laser. There's your photo. And imagine seeing a long, a long wheelbase California spider driving down the street.
29:44 Speaker 05 Fake or not, yeah, exactly, imagine. But yep, here's the legendary scene where they're, they're doing, doing the jump. And they, they-
29:51 Doug DeMuro? So Lewis Hamilton, Ferrari wanted to be part of this? The car was fa- like, famously a fake.
29:54 Speaker 05 Yeah, exactly. But they wanted, yeah.
29:56 Doug DeMuro? They were cool with it.
29:57 Speaker 05 Yeah, exactly. They wanted him to be in it. And Lewis is passionate about it. So it's a fun way for them to like, get kinda hyped up for the weekend, I think. But it, it's masterfully done.
30:06 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
30:06 Speaker 05 Like, really, really well.
30:08 Doug DeMuro? When I think about Ferrari, I think about season the Sis letters to somebody that tries to do this. But they, they might have a-
30:13 Speaker 05 But no, Lewis Hamilton comes to the team, and guess what? He can do whatever he wants.
30:16 Doug DeMuro? Including wear that cloak and live in Enzo's house. Okay. Time for the Talk Cars segment. The Talk Cars segment, of course, is brought to you by Filippo's Mug. Filippo's Mug!
30:24 Speaker 05 It was full, it is now emptied.
30:26 Doug DeMuro? If it's between every single coffee. If it was him, though. He leaves them on his desk, they coagulate. Okay, I want to talk about something. Yesterday, we got a question, what are your bad takes? And I want to give you a take that is great, that everyone's gonna hate. Oh, I surprisingly agree with this take. Okay, the take is as follows. Before we move on, let me tell you about Quince. Spring is here, which means my travel itch is back. Traveling comfortably can be the difference between having a good vacation or a bad one. And I'm preparing for my next trip with a first-class quality suitcase and an economy price tag from Quince. This year, I'm treating myself to the luxury upgrades I've been searching for with Quince's high-quality travel essentials at fair prices. Some examples include lightweight shirts and shorts from $30, pants for any occasion,
31:11 Doug DeMuro? and comfortable lounge sets. Plus, Quince has premium luggage options and durable duffel bags to carry it all. The best part? All Quince items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. By partnering directly with top factories, Quince cuts out the cost of the middleman and passes the savings directly on to us. And, Quince only works with factories that offer a safe, ethical, responsible manufacturing practice and premium fabrics and finishes, which is great. I'll be packing away my Quince sweaters for next winter, and I really can't wait for my carry-on bag to arrive for my trips this year. The colors available are unique and special, and bag is absolutely perfect for a comfortable travel experience.
31:54 Doug DeMuro? For your next trip, treat yourself to the lux upgrades you deserve from Quince. Go to quince.com/doug for 365-day returns, plus free shipping on your order. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com/doug to get free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com/doug. It is unbelievable how often I hear from people that they want a 70 Series Toyota Land Cruiser. This is like the rallying cry of like, American, like, 22-year-old car enthusiast who thinks he knows about analog, you know, this is the, "Are we on a 70 Series? They give us all this stuff, it's so expensive with all this tech, we just want a 70 Series." No, you don't, you want a 4Runner. That's my, that's my... Well... Here's where the take falls apart. Where does the take fall apart? Can I tell?
32:40 Speaker 05 Well, I want a 70's.
32:42 Doug DeMuro? Okay, why?
32:43 Speaker 05 Because I drove them for a month in Southern Africa.
32:44 Doug DeMuro? But why?
32:45 Speaker 05 I drove it really hard because it was reliable, simple, and easy.
32:47 Doug DeMuro? Simple. Oh, that's a wrong, wrong reason. If you can, why don't you pull up the Australian pricing of the 70's? I'm just kind of curious what it costs.
32:53 Speaker 05 Australian price?
32:54 Doug DeMuro? Well, that's where they, that's where people talk about them coming from. I don't know, you want to look up Venezuelan pricing? Can you read Venezuelan? You know, everybody always says like, the 70's series should be sold in America because it's this bare bones work truck. And it'd be so cool to just have only the basics. It's a cheap 30 grand work truck. This truck is not 30 grand in any market where it is conceptualized or sold. How do they charge that much? Because that's, that's what it costs to make a vehicle. The Americans have this concept that we're getting, we're getting screwed on 70's series Land Cruisers because they're selling them for $14,000 in other markets. They are tremendously expensive cars overseas. They cost the same as a 4Runner. And by the way, you know what the 4Runner is? Durable, simple, and reliable.
33:39 Speaker 05 I can fix it.
33:39 Doug DeMuro? Like it always has been.
33:41 Speaker 05 I can fix that with a hammer, you can't fix a 4Runner.
33:43 Doug DeMuro? A 4th, a 5th gen 4Runner? With halogen headlights and no screen? You can fix it, you can fix it with a hammer. You can fix it by looking at it and asking it nicely to be fixed.
33:52 Speaker 05 There's a reason when I was out there, all I saw on the road, all I saw were 70's.
33:57 Doug DeMuro? They don't have the 4. That's the reason. The 4Runner is sold here and everybody's like, we want the 70's. Okay, fine, you want the 70's? To get this to comply with US regs would add another 10 grand to the price. But let's pretend it didn't even have to comply. You're spending, what was it, 52 grand? For a worse vehicle! Pull up a picture of a 70's interior. You know this doesn't have side airbags. This is not a safe or rational car. A 4Runner is objectively a better vehicle, but... It is objectively better in every single way. Look at this one, click on this one.
34:28 Doug DeMuro? Look at this, this is like...
34:30 Speaker 05 Yeah.
34:30 Doug DeMuro? And everybody's like, it's old school, I love old school. Okay, we'll spend 20% more for a worse car. No one would actually do it. That's the thing about the 70's. Here's what I think it reveals. It reveals that people want cars that look...
34:43 Speaker 04 Rugged.
34:43 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
34:44 Speaker 04 And simple and are maybe OK at some price point, accepting like a very simple interior. Which is also why the.
34:50 Doug DeMuro? No one would buy this car.
34:51 Speaker 04 Of course not, which is also why their Jimny is as popular as it is. It's like it kind of did that, right? Simple.
34:57 Doug DeMuro? The Jimny is more.
34:58 Speaker 04 Simple interior.
34:59 Doug DeMuro? Because.
34:59 Speaker 04 And that's what people actually think this is. They're wrong about what it is.
35:02 Doug DeMuro? They're wrong about what it is.
35:02 Speaker 04 But that's what they think it is.
35:03 Doug DeMuro? If you talk to any American, if you go, communities of people who just sort of get their news from word of mouth. They will tell you that Toyota is screwing us by not offering a Land Cruiser in the US that is bare bones and $30,000. The truth of the matter is they are giving us the forerunner, which is a gift. Because if they were giving us this instead, it would be thousands of dollars more. By the way, none of the people who are complaining about this would ever buy any of these vehicles new. And the 70 series is, is worse.
35:31 Speaker 04 But, but image matters so much. And I think this reveals that people want the image. People want to feel like they're in safari.
35:36 Doug DeMuro? And you know what?
35:37 Speaker 04 Want to feel that way.
35:38 Doug DeMuro? Anybody who loves the 70 series, if they want to talk image, let's talk image. Let's admit that what they really want is the image of a basic off.
35:45 Speaker 04 And that's why you buy a new grand here.
35:47 Speaker 05 The reason why, I mean, look, if I could get the 70 series also important, but you can get it.
35:51 Speaker 04 Yeah, now you can.
35:53 Speaker 05 I, it's, the difference was, the reason why I genuinely, well, there are a lot of reasons why I haven't genuinely pursued it. But the big one is like, I remember driving around in Africa, looking at animals like way out in the savanna. I poured water up to the windshield. I did all the things you do with a Land Cruiser. What am I going to do here? Drive around the desert and look at guys and raptors like crashing? Like, it's not the same. Like, the point was it made sense in the context where I wanted to use it, which is in Africa.
36:16 Speaker 04 You know what, you know what you could get? A forerunner can do both.
36:19 Speaker 05 Well, I don't.
36:19 Doug DeMuro? For less money!
36:21 Speaker 05 Yeah, but the 70 series is just straight up cooler.
36:24 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, exactly.
36:25 Speaker 05 Because we can't have.
36:26 Doug DeMuro? And so I think it's finally time for all the people who talk about the bare bones 70 series, how great it is, to finally admit. And you can admit it in the comments that what you really want is the image of a 70 series. You don't actually want the bare bones truck. You don't actually want the, the stripped down interior. You want something that looks like you're a mountain bear.
36:43 Speaker 04 Yes, of course.
36:45 Speaker 05 It's a Savannah man, but.
36:47 Speaker 04 Why do you think people make, I'm looking at a first gen Cayenne Trans Siberia. Why do people make replicas of that? Because what they want is the image of a Trans Siberia.
36:53 Doug DeMuro? What people talk about is they want a basic car they can work on with a hammer. That's what they've said.
36:57 Speaker 04 Of course, they would never.
36:57 Doug DeMuro? But what they actually want is not that. Because they were given that in the Ford or the Fitron 400. By the way, a lot of those people did buy it. There are people who realize this.
37:05 Speaker 04 For 15 years, yeah.
37:06 Doug DeMuro? The point is, the 70 series is absolutely not the vehicle you want. You want a 400 and you should go get one, new or old, because they're both great.
37:14 Speaker 05 Or save your money, go on an African vacation and rent a 70 series. Like, I didn't have the true experience.
37:19 Doug DeMuro? That is how you save your money. Do it, go to Africa for three weeks, go on safari.
37:22 Speaker 04 You don't need a car.
37:23 Doug DeMuro? $45,000?
37:24 Speaker 04 When you come back, you walk.
37:27 Speaker 05 You have a car already. You want to have the 70 series experience? Go do it out there.
37:32 Doug DeMuro? Sell your car and spend two weeks in Africa. That is Kenan's top tip for the day.
37:37 Speaker 05 That's my hot take.
37:38 Doug DeMuro? Uh, okay, we have a couple more talk cars segments we gotta get through. Uh, starting with the Cars and Bids Adventure Cars. Go to them, please.
37:44 Speaker 04 We have.
37:45 Doug DeMuro? Tell us about them.
37:45 Speaker 04 A Cayenne Turbo and a E30 M5 that are both live on Cars and Bids. That are the cars that you saw us drive in our little desert adventure series.
37:56 Doug DeMuro? Okay, so the desert adventure series we did months ago. I don't know why we're only selling these cars now. They're on the site, you can buy them and they're available. They're sitting right over there.
38:05 Speaker 04 No reserve.
38:06 Doug DeMuro? There are no reserves. We want them out of here.
38:08 Speaker 04 We want them out of here. I also want to be really clear. These are cars that we drove fairly long distances that also have a lot of flaws. I want to be really transparent about that.
38:17 Doug DeMuro? Oh, yeah.
38:17 Speaker 04 We bought cars, Doug raced them in the desert.
38:20 Speaker 05 I went through the E39 myself and wrote this list of flaws. I'm sure there are other ones that I can probably find, too.
38:26 Doug DeMuro? Wow. What is, okay, can we find the most ridiculous?
38:29 Speaker 04 Yeah, the center support bearing clinking on driveway is quite a sentence.
38:32 Speaker 05 Yeah, it's.
38:33 Doug DeMuro? Center support bearing clinking on driveway?
38:35 Speaker 05 Yep, center support bearing is a part that supports the drive shaft and is worn. And it clinks when it fails.
38:39 Doug DeMuro? How about wear on interior touchpoints? That's just a call.
38:43 Speaker 05 Well, that's just general. Some of these are general ones that we normally put in them and they're, there's wear on the steering wheel. There's wear on the seats, there's wear on the shifter, there's wear, you know.
38:49 Speaker 04 Good news is there's various chips and scratches throughout, but especially on the driver's side front fender. Why, Doug?
38:55 Doug DeMuro? Um, there.
38:56 Speaker 05 There's a smooth brained knuckle dragging troglodyte. Put his shoes on there. It wasn't Matt. It was you.
39:03 Doug DeMuro? I stood on one of the cars or all the cars.
39:06 Speaker 05 I have a photograph of, I'm not, I lost my mind.
39:10 Doug DeMuro? You went over a TV with, you drove over a TV with this car.
39:14 Speaker 05 At a quarter of a mile an hour.
39:16 Doug DeMuro? I didn't drive over a TV with this whole thing.
39:18 Speaker 05 It was a flat screen that was in a place that you decided to film.
39:20 Doug DeMuro? What's next, Kenan? Are you gonna run over a whole movie theater with it?
39:24 Speaker 05 Good, good one.
39:25 Speaker 04 If you want either of the cars, and please go watch the video so you see how they perform. You see that the Cayenne won a lot of channels.
39:30 Speaker 05 I will say that.
39:31 Speaker 04 Five won none. You can go watch all that and then go bed and buy a car.
39:34 Speaker 05 Yes, and fully, fully.
39:35 Doug DeMuro? And by the way.
39:36 Speaker 05 Plastic toy.
39:36 Doug DeMuro? Cayenne fuel gauge doesn't work. Look, a lot of stuff's broken. We bought these cars because we had a filming schedule and we had to buy them like the weekend before. You don't go thinking that because we had these cars, there's something, okay?
39:47 Speaker 04 We want to be very clear.
39:48 Doug DeMuro? But you can have a part of filming history.
39:50 Speaker 04 Sorry.
39:51 Doug DeMuro? Of video history.
39:53 Speaker 04 Yep.
39:53 Speaker 05 Well.
39:55 Doug DeMuro? Okay, Kenan, tell us about Amelia Island.
39:57 Speaker 05 Yes, so I went to the Amelia concours de la gants, or the Amelia as it's known. And it got rained out on Sunday. They had to push everything forward to Saturday.
40:06 Speaker 04 The whole, the main event got rained out?
40:08 Speaker 05 Yes, I mean, and it was a deluge. It was, it was a ton of rain. So it's a good thing they moved it. There were delahays there. It was, it has lost the magic from when it once was, in my opinion. Like, it feels a lot more corporatized. It feels like not as... When I used to go, it was like there was always a sense of like, it was, it was really, really special. And it was also like, you could walk up to anybody and everybody had their guard down. It wasn't Pebble Beach where it is really cutthroat and really strict and there's a lot of pressure for your car to succeed. Because you've spent millions of dollars getting it prepared. And the people, they've done the same thing with these cars, but it's a little bit more relaxed. It used to be the first concours event of the year, of the season, and like people were really, really excited.
40:50 Speaker 05 This, this just, it did not feel that way this time around. And it hasn't for the last three. And the cars, the other issue is that there's now another event that is the week that precedes it, called Moda. And that has split audiences between people. They either have to pick to go to one or the other, or they have to stay in Florida the entire time. I talked to somebody who went there who's a dealer, who, who we know, Matt Ivenhoe, went to Moda because he has to for, for business, had to go back to his house to celebrate his daughter's birthday, went back to Amelia Island and then back to his house again.
41:20 Speaker 04 That seems like a better.
41:21 Speaker 05 The In Connecticut.
41:22 Speaker 04 Yeah, that's, sounds like a normal week.
41:23 Doug DeMuro? So what do we do?
41:25 Speaker 05 It's tough. For, for, don't, I mean, sure, a normal week, but for the same thing.
41:29 Speaker 04 Yeah, I know, it's a lot.
41:30 Doug DeMuro? So what are you gonna do?
41:32 Speaker 05 Well, I have heard rumblings that one of the auctions may or may not be moving to Moda next year. And if that is true, then Amelia is done for me.
41:39 Doug DeMuro? Oh, wow.
41:40 Speaker 05 I'll go back.
41:41 Doug DeMuro? You know, I haven't been to a million years, but god, I loved it. It was wonderful.
41:44 Speaker 05 Yeah, you were there when it was still good. I saw you, wearing a suit. Rare.
41:47 Doug DeMuro? I judged an event. I judged an event.
41:50 Speaker 04 I've seen Doug wearing a suit twice.
41:52 Doug DeMuro? My wedding was the other.
41:53 Speaker 04 My wedding was the other time.
41:55 Doug DeMuro? That was a nice day.
41:56 Speaker 04 Yeah.
41:56 Doug DeMuro? It was in Baltimore. It was hot.
41:58 Speaker 04 I made him buy it. Sent him a link. Why it is.
42:01 Speaker 05 I had him bring a tie to our friend Sam. I had to bring him a spare tie because I knew he would forget for our friend Sam's wedding.
42:06 Doug DeMuro? Well, forget. I mean, who wears a tie to a wedding? Anyway, the point, it's not a funeral.
42:10 Speaker 05 It was pink. I did it on.
42:10 Doug DeMuro? For god's sake. Anyway, the point is, Amelia, did you see cars? You see a 911 GT1?
42:17 Speaker 05 I did see a competition GT1 that was there.
42:19 Doug DeMuro? You want to see a road car? What was your favorite car that you saw?
42:22 Speaker 05 Ah, I finally have seen one. I've waited to check this car for a long time, but I finally saw a Sterling Moss.
42:28 Doug DeMuro? An SLR Sterling Moss?
42:30 Speaker 05 Finally.
42:30 Doug DeMuro? Open roof.
42:31 Speaker 05 Open roof.
42:31 Speaker 04 That wasn't being driven around in a Deluge, right?
42:33 Speaker 05 Yep, exactly. No, that thing was on a truck and long gone by the time the rain came, as most cars were. But it was cool to see the doors go up and the guy drive it to. It won an award and drove up to and accepted an award and stuff like that. There was a low body.
42:43 Doug DeMuro? What award?
42:44 Speaker 05 I don't know.
42:45 Speaker 04 Weirdest, weirdest car.
42:47 Speaker 05 Yes, most obscure Mercedes, probably. But I did see a low body Countach. There were some things that were cool, but like, it just.
42:54 Doug DeMuro? Not enough.
42:54 Speaker 05 Not enough. The showing was not nearly as good as it has been in the past.
42:57 Doug DeMuro? Really?
42:58 Speaker 05 And the Cars and Coffee event, which is why I like to see a lot of people bring their own cars, and you pay to do this, by the way. That event just got straight up cancelled. And so it was Radwood was there, and so you got to do that, which was cool. And one of our coworkers actually won an award with her Mitsubishi FTO, which was sick. But the Cars and Coffee event was not, didn't happen. So like.
43:18 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
43:19 Speaker 05 And it just like, it gets more and more expensive every year, and it just has more and more tied down, and there's more red tape around it. And this happens with most events, to be honest with you, but it was like. Palpable compared to where I start. This is my eighth one. And so it was better.
43:32 Doug DeMuro? That's sad.
43:33 Speaker 05 That's how I feel about, and I was not alone in that feeling.
43:35 Doug DeMuro? Well, I gotta go back and decide for myself. Or go to the liver.
43:38 Speaker 05 Or, yeah, getting beautiful. I did have a.
43:40 Doug DeMuro? I'm not gonna do it.
43:41 Speaker 05 I also will say thank you to everybody who came up and like said hello. It was really nice. People really like listening to the podcast and thank you, Daniel, for the old fashioned. That was very kind. But it was, uh, it was, it's always nice to run into people. I like going because I know people in the industry.
43:55 Doug DeMuro? You actually enjoy talking. Do people come up to you and ask you 395 questions?
43:59 Speaker 05 Sometimes. Yeah, sometimes. Yeah. But people, yeah, there are those people have asked about both of you. My line with you was, uh, I would have brought Doug, but he doesn't fit very well into my luggage, so I couldn't bring him to this one.
44:08 Doug DeMuro? How sweet. Yeah, I don't, uh, travel. Okay, um, we gotta do our last talk car segment, which is the photo shoot. Can you go to, now, we talked about this last week. Uh, we took my cars out to the beach for a photo shoot. And we drove them on the beach, which was odd. I want to just shout out the photographer, Frank. Frank takes a lot of pictures of the cars on Cars and Bids, and he took these pictures. Photographer's Garage. His Instagram is the Photographer's Garage, and he is one of the greatest living automotive photographers. One of the great, I have three. I got Alex Penfold, Robert Grubbs, who's also around here and took photos of my cars and posted on Instagram, and then Frank. Frank is a genius, as you can see from this photo. Now, Filippo. It's not my favorite photo that he took. Go to the next one. Look at that G-Wagon. There, we took the G-Wagon out. It's probably a good thing.
44:52 Speaker 05 Yeah, probably. There's just the sports cars.
44:55 Doug DeMuro? This is, this is real, Filippo. This is real. I was there. We took, Filippo was there. We took these pictures in Meth Central.
45:03 Speaker 05 It's where I ran over the TV. Surprise.
45:07 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, we need those to say we didn't run over any TVs on this day. No, did we not? Go to the last picture. There's some good stuff here. There's a lot of different angles and shots and shoots and, but there's some good stuff here. And Frank, a huge, huge shout out to Frank, one of the most gifted photographers this side of a camera. Go back to.
45:25 Speaker 05 The side of a DSLR.
45:27 Doug DeMuro? To the other one? Man, there's one that's slightly different than I like better. This is better because the G is, this is a great image. It's a great image. This is Frank's, this is like the, when you think of Frank and dream of Frank, this is what you think his talents will be used for. Am I being blamed for parking the Ford GT too far forward? No, because there's other angles where the GT is more visible, like the next one. The next one, it's fully visible. I just preferred, I like the shot with the G cab because it adds a little humor to the whole thing. It does. I want to take a moment to tell you about another podcast you should absolutely check out. Drive with Jim Farley. Ford CEO Jim Farley talks to some of his favorite people about what they drive and what drives them to succeed. He has great guests on the show like the British racing driver Vicky Butler Henderson and one of my favorite people, Jay Leno.
46:10 Doug DeMuro? I've checked out a few episodes of Drive with Jim Farley and I really love to hear his insights. There was a time when we only got to hear from automotive CEOs and press quotes and carefully worded corporate statements, but Jim Farley's podcast is personal and it really shows his passion for cars, which is really cool. And this is a podcast I'm certainly going to keep in my listening routine. Click the link in the description box to listen to Drive with Jim Farley today. Okay, we gotta talk market report, market report, market report. The market report is brought to you by the Cars and Bids app. To download it, you do something. We don't have time to tell you. I don't know, I don't know what you do. We gotta, we gotta move on. Okay. Okay, we gotta talk F355. Pull it up, folks. Yes. I'm not even talking about closed auctions today because there's two cars that we have
46:55 Doug DeMuro? to talk about. This is one of the great auctions we've ever run. Yep. Someone submits this to us. This is a Euromarket F355 GTS STIC, which is one of the most desirable Ferraris like in the recent years. It has had a huge come up. Well, not only that, it's blue. It's blue. It's an unusual color. It's a very special color. So here we have all the great benefits. Euromarket, 355, GTS, the most desirable body style, STIC, gated manual, blue. I mean, it's like everything you want. However.
47:24 Doug DeMuro? This has, this car has a Mississippi flood title. Yeah. And it's located in Mississippi. Yeah. And so, God knows. And it's no reserve, by the way. And I think this is one of the most exciting auctions we've ever run in our entire history of running auctions. Such a desirable car. Who knows what's gonna happen? With a flood. I commented, I think this auction has everything. It's got this gated manual Ferrari, special color GTS flood title, no reserve, Mississippi is involved. This is it! This is it. This is it. This is it. Now, seller claims car runs, I mean, he drives, he's got videos, who knows? You know, I mean, it was in a flood. It's the, all he replaced the fuse box. He said that's all it needed. Who knows?
48:09 Doug DeMuro? There's no pictures of it flooded. There's, you know, there's no, there's no accounting of it. Generally speaking, flooded cars, the person who owns it wants it totaled out immediately because they don't want to screw with that stuff. It either gives the opportunity for an amazing bargain to someone, or a lifetime of headaches. And that's the dice roll you're making with this car, and I love it.
48:28 Speaker 05 Well, an F3555, as I can attest, is a lifetime of headaches regardless of whether it's perfect or not. But this is a really compelling, like, opportunity to own what is an incredibly desirable car.
48:39 Doug DeMuro? We Googled the VIN and there's pictures from like the insurance auction after it dried out. It's hard to tell. It doesn't look like it had been underwater. Certainly, the whole car wasn't. The fuse box was replaced, which is in the passenger footwell, low in the car. Like, it could have gotten only a foot of water and damaged that. Even then, we felt the carpets didn't look like they had been submerged. But, but if you're the owner of a 355 that gets any amount of water, I would also want to, want to just get the insurance money. This is your opportunity to get a retail payout for the car.
49:09 Speaker 05 Yes, yes. Unless you have Doug do a video on yours, that is an opportunity.
49:12 Doug DeMuro? I, I, this is a complete variable car, but I gotta say, I'm sitting there thinking, I want this thing. Like, I want to roll the dice. I sent it to Hoovy and I was like, dude, you gotta buy this because... Hoovy, if you're watching. This is you. This is just you. Like, this is the best version of this really cool and special car. But also the worst ver- like, nobody knows, and this is you, Hoovy. You gotta buy this thing. And I see the high bid is $16,942, and so I assume Hoovy is the high bidder at the current moment.
49:37 Speaker 05 Are you gonna bid?
49:38 Doug DeMuro? I'm not, I'm not gonna bid. Current bid is not Hoovy. I don't know. I told Hoovy to get in on this, he better. Anyway.
49:45 Speaker 05 Quite a desirable car.
49:46 Doug DeMuro? Where do you think this ends up? I mean, nice ones, non-flood are 200, 250.
49:51 Speaker 05 For, for.
49:51 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, Euros, Euros.
49:53 Speaker 05 Euros are a little less, but not, maybe not, but they aren't often blue.
49:57 Doug DeMuro? But also, people don't care as much about GTSs when it comes to Euros, because finding a stick GTS is hard enough. The Euro thing is like, less of a deal now, especially because they're 25 and you can drive them anywhere. Nobody, California, Montana. You Montana, nobody cares.
50:08 Speaker 05 Right, right. But I don't know. I still get a feeling, I was saying yesterday, I expect it brings in the 80s.
50:15 Doug DeMuro? Oh my god, I'd buy it.
50:16 Speaker 05 I'm saying it brings in the hundreds now. I think it's gonna crest 100,000.
50:19 Doug DeMuro? I think, it's such an unknown, though.
50:21 Speaker 05 I know, exactly, but like, a, a good one is 2.5 times more expensive.
50:27 Doug DeMuro? Right, and you don't get blue.
50:28 Speaker 05 You don't get blue. So like, I've, I suspect.
50:31 Doug DeMuro? It's a driver. You ever wanted to drive one? You can. Here's an opportunity.
50:34 Speaker 04 The good ones, you're also buying with some expectation of appreciation. And how long do you have to wait for a flex title card to appreciate?
50:40 Doug DeMuro? I don't know. Is a, is a, is a stick gated GTS that, that 250 really gonna, got a lot of legs?
50:46 Speaker 05 I mean, they just aren't that, a lot of them would burn to the ground.
50:50 Speaker 04 Maybe if there's like water.
50:52 Speaker 05 They aren't, they aren't common. Like the Bruniniata, which is the most beautiful, we can agree, and the Spider are the least desirable, but the most, like, successful, they built the most of them, they're around. GTSs just aren't common.
51:02 Doug DeMuro? Gated GTS in a cool color, I, this, I'm telling you, this has it all, this is one of the most interesting auctions you've ever run, if you, if you follow cars like this, it's very interesting. Now, on the subject of Ferraris.
51:12 Speaker 05 Yes, now, if you want, so this one, a driver. You want one that's a mentor? There's another one that we have on the site that is unbelievable. So I flew to Dallas to see this car.
51:21 Doug DeMuro? And if you get Ken to fly to Texas, you're like.
51:24 Speaker 05 You're, if I'm not seeing my relatives, you're asking a lot. And so this car, 1982 38 GTSI. Now, you recently drove a 1982 38 GTSI. Wonderful little car drive. Yours had like, tons of miles, a driver, real driver. This one. I cannot describe to you how perfect this car was.
51:39 Doug DeMuro? Have you looked at the pictures?
51:39 Speaker 05 No.
51:40 Doug DeMuro? Go to the interior picture. I mean, it's beautiful on the outside. It should be mentioned. It's only 1,900 miles.
51:44 Speaker 05 Yeah, so 1,000, yeah, I had, I think when I left it, it was 1,925 when I left it, but still, like, yeah, right around.
51:49 Doug DeMuro? So the exterior is beautiful, the car's in perfect shape, etc., but the interior, because the thing about 308s, people are gonna look at this, people who don't know that well are gonna look and say, "Oh, it's a Ferrari. Of course, it's nicely kept." But the thing about 308s is, a lot of them were used. And so it's very rare that you see a really nice 308 interior.
52:03 Speaker 05 Man, this is it.
52:04 Doug DeMuro? I've never seen anything like this.
52:05 Speaker 05 I've, I haven't either. I've seen a lot of 308s. I mean, to your point, they built over 10,000 of these cars. It was a very successful car for Ferrari.
52:11 Doug DeMuro? And it's been, for a long time, the most affordable, good Ferrari. And so if you wanted to buy a good Ferrari and use it, you, you got a 308. And then, so then the seats got creased. Not here.
52:20 Speaker 05 Not this one. Like, I, you know how picky I am. Everybody knows that. I went around this car with a magnifying glass, looking for stuff. And I'm not just saying this because it's on the site. I'm saying this like as an academic. I could not find, what's wrong with it?
52:34 Doug DeMuro? It's, keep going. It's unbelievable. It really is unbelievable.
52:36 Speaker 05 I did a video on this, which you can go and watch on the Cars and Bids YouTube channel, and a lot of people said, "I, I can't stand the cars that aren't driven." And it's like, well, I get that too, but like, the reality of this car is, is that like, it's nice to have ones that are preserved exactly as they left the factory.
52:50 Doug DeMuro? And there aren't many 308s. You know, I get when people say that about F40s, because every F40 is preserved like that. I honestly think that this car is maybe, is more special in a lot of ways than a regular 308, because there aren't any like this. When I had my NAS Defender, I drove the crap out of it, and I off-roaded it, and went through puddles, and it had gone in the sand. But when a perfect one would come up, I would be so excited, because it's like, wow, here's an example of how this car was OE. They don't exist anymore. They're just, that wasn't how people did this.
53:15 Speaker 05 No, exactly.
53:16 Doug DeMuro? It's so cool to see this.
53:17 Speaker 05 This car's background is fascinating, because it was owned, it was owned by a guy who had a successful computer company on Long Island, donated it to the Watkins Glen Racing Museum, and it sat there forever, until it was raffled off. A woman won this car for 100 bucks, and then she didn't know what to do with it, because it had no miles.
53:33 Doug DeMuro? When, when was this? When did she win it?
53:35 Speaker 05 This was like 2007, I think, 2008. I mentioned it somewhere else, I mentioned it in the listing somewhere.
53:40 Doug DeMuro? So what did she do?
53:41 Speaker 05 So she, yeah, so here's the history. So then, or it was 2013.
53:44 Doug DeMuro? 13 she raffled.
53:45 Speaker 05 So then she sold it to somebody who then sold it to the current owner. Had the car for the last 10 years, but this car was also like, again, the other things about this car real quick, just to point out. It has Classic K certification, which no 308.
53:56 Doug DeMuro? Very rare for 308.
53:57 Speaker 05 It's very expensive and hard to do because you have to go to Classic K dealer. They take hundreds of pictures of the car. They take stuff apart to take pictures of it. They send it to the factory. If they need more pictures, you got to bring the car back. They got to do it again. And then it go, all of that goes to the factory. They pull your file out of the archives because Ferrari has all, every car has a file. They pull it out, check everything against that, and only then can you get Classic K certification, which I found out Pierre Ferrari still signs all of those documents himself.
54:20 Doug DeMuro? Piero does?
54:21 Speaker 05 Yeah, which this car has.
54:22 Doug DeMuro? Enzo's son.
54:23 Speaker 05 Enzo's son.
54:23 Doug DeMuro? Wow.
54:23 Speaker 05 Wild. But this car has it. It's just crazy rare on, on these cars and it's genuinely, I know the driver ones are what we like normally, but I wanted to experience. What the hell is this thing like new? And it was sublime. It still drove great. It was still a lot of fun. It turned me on to like, I would definitely consider like even a GTSI.
54:41 Doug DeMuro? I am, I will send, very curious where it ends up. Uh, in terms of pricing, not a lot of comps.
54:46 Speaker 05 No, none, like none, because it's, it's an incredibly low, it's a really desirable version of like kind of the, the lowest version 308. Cause everybody wants a, a Vettorina, the carbureted fiberglass cars, or they want a QV. They don't often gravitate toward this model, but you will not find another one. It's like, in this condition.
55:04 Doug DeMuro? It's the nicest one, period.
55:06 Speaker 05 It is, it is the nicest one.
55:07 Doug DeMuro? But maybe the not the most desirable.
55:09 Speaker 05 And although I put, I put five miles on it. I felt so guilty, but it was so good.
55:12 Doug DeMuro? I know. Same with the, with the Intimidator Monte Carlo.
55:15 Speaker 05 Yes, I also put three miles on that.
55:17 Doug DeMuro? I drove that around and I was like, oh my God. And I actually have to take it back outside because I forgot to shoot B-roll and I'm like, oh God, I put four more miles on it. And by four, I mean one. I'll be able to shoot in the alley. Um, last thing I want to, this is an incredible car. The other one is, dude. Um, I want to talk 981 because you get that on here and we should discuss it. Pull up, just type in 981.
55:34 Speaker 05 Either go for it.
55:35 Doug DeMuro? Just type in 981 because it's interesting to look at. I.
55:40 Speaker 04 All right, 986 boxers, which is a first generation boxer, are seven to 12 grand.
55:45 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
55:45 Speaker 04 Like the nicest ones. I have long hoped that the 981 boxers.
55:50 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
55:51 Speaker 04 Which is like the most modern pre-four cylinder boxer, uh, would come down in price.
55:56 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
55:56 Speaker 04 And they haven't.
55:57 Doug DeMuro? It is.
55:58 Speaker 04 I disagree with your take on this.
55:59 Doug DeMuro? Go back up, go back up.
56:00 Speaker 04 Not enough.
56:01 Doug DeMuro? No, no, no, no, to this, to that black one's 23.
56:03 Speaker 04 I know, that, that was a specific example, but that's the lowest one we've sold.
56:07 Speaker 05 Super base wheels.
56:08 Doug DeMuro? What's the, what's the, what's the, yeah, it's an A414.
56:11 Speaker 04 And I, there was some story there, can't remember what it was.
56:13 Doug DeMuro? This is what happens to Porsches, they depreciate slowly.
56:15 Speaker 04 It's not depreciate, I know, but I want it to depreciate quickly. I want one, because I want one, and I feel like it should depreciate faster than it is depreciating.
56:22 Doug DeMuro? The thing about it is, here's the thing about it, there's a couple of reasons it's not gonna. Number one.
56:26 Speaker 04 I know.
56:26 Doug DeMuro? The turbo flat four was not more desirable.
56:28 Speaker 04 The 718 boxers came right after.
56:31 Doug DeMuro? Number two, it's a pretty modern car.
56:33 Speaker 04 I know.
56:33 Doug DeMuro? The tech is pretty modern, so there's still desirability. And number three, like 987.2s aren't really losing a lot of value either, like, there's not a lot of room for this thing to, to decline much.
56:43 Speaker 04 It's annoying.
56:43 Speaker 05 It's just, but.
56:44 Speaker 04 But depreciate.
56:45 Doug DeMuro? For the 19th time.
56:47 Speaker 05 Thousandth time.
56:48 Doug DeMuro? The whole, the benefit of a car that isn't depreciating quickly is that you can buy it and sell it without losing much money in it.
56:54 Speaker 04 Oh.
56:55 Speaker 05 Filippo.
56:56 Doug DeMuro? He only thinks about purchase price.
56:58 Speaker 05 Only thing, yeah.
56:59 Doug DeMuro? He only thinks about purchase price. Something could be, something could be 10 grand and he loses the whole thing, and he's like, yeah, but it was only 10 grand. Meanwhile, you, I spent a million dollars on a car, sell it for a million dollars, lose nothing, in a better position, and Filippo's over here like, yeah, but you had to spend a million dollars. It wasn't spent!
57:13 Speaker 00 Welcome to the 50th Hunger Games.
57:15 Speaker 01 Witness the beginning of the revolution.
57:18 Speaker 00 Hey Mitch, you've been trying to take down these games from the start.
57:21 Speaker 01 Filmed for IMAX.
57:22 Speaker 00 Make them remember you.
57:25 Speaker 01 The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Reaping, November 20th, made in PD13.
57:28 Speaker 06 Bonjour compadre, it's the.
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58:00 Speaker 04 Well, there's an opportunity cost that you're not mentioning.
58:02 Doug DeMuro? You lost the 10 grand!
58:04 Speaker 04 I've never lost 10 grand.
58:05 Doug DeMuro? Would you just buy the car?
58:07 Speaker 04 I, I, maybe I'm not sure. I just want it to be a little bit cheaper than they are. For a little while, they were falling right after COVID, like in the last two years, they've been falling. They haven't kept going.
58:16 Doug DeMuro? I am actually doing a video on best performance car bargains right now, and I'm putting this car in the
58:20 Speaker 04 Wow, with the uptick.
58:22 Doug DeMuro? Because I think if, if, look at the last two, go back, look at the last two.
58:25 Speaker 04 PDK.
58:25 Doug DeMuro? Both around 30. It's a PDK, but PDK is a great transmission.
58:28 Speaker 04 I know, but I want a manual.
58:29 Doug DeMuro? And manuals are not dramatically more expensive. If you look, click on lowest price.
58:32 Speaker 04 10 grand.
58:33 Doug DeMuro? That one's $23,000!
58:34 Speaker 04 Well, that one was like, there's a 23rd price.
58:38 Doug DeMuro? Manuels are selling $23,000. There's one for 25, there's one for 25. They're not dramatically more because the market likes PDK. It's, it doesn't love PDK the same way it loves a manual, but these cars are not that much more expensive. That's the color, by the way. Put good wheels on that car.
58:52 Speaker 04 I know. I regretted not.
58:54 Doug DeMuro? That's red top. That is the dream. That is the launch spec.
58:57 Speaker 04 Very close to bidding on that car.
58:58 Doug DeMuro? Good lord. That is a great.
59:00 Speaker 04 The side of the red steering wheel was a bit much for me, but I came really close.
59:03 Doug DeMuro? No, this is the dream. I know people like that. When I worked at Porsche, I ordered one just like this. In a red top.
59:09 Speaker 04 Yeah.
59:09 Doug DeMuro? This was the launch color. Like you said, yeah, but, ugh. The point is.
59:13 Speaker 04 Maybe I did, Kenan and I drove 981, a 981 boxer base tip, and it was, the chassis was so good.
59:19 Doug DeMuro? Chassis is so good. For the money, this is a really desirable car. I dream of this.
59:22 Speaker 04 But I want it to be like 20.
59:24 Doug DeMuro? The Spyder's great, but a regular is pretty good too. I think you can get an S. Okay.
59:27 Speaker 04 You can get an S.
59:28 Doug DeMuro? We have to move on to questions. We have to. The question segment today is very good because I've, again, I've decided to stop answering only the highest rated questions, which led to a lot of the same people asking questions the moment we posted the thing.
59:39 Speaker 04 I think you've explained this three weeks in a row, we're good.
59:41 Doug DeMuro? No, it's important because people still complain, and now I've only decided to answer the best questions and the most controversial. Those are the ones I like the best.
59:49 Speaker 04 You do like controversial.
59:50 Doug DeMuro? And Kenan, there's some great questions this week. I have questions for all of us.
59:52 Speaker 04 Okay.
59:52 Doug DeMuro? First question from Too Slow For You. Doug, I work in the automotive industry. Someone I worked, where we used to work with you at Porsche, they told me you ordered a bunch of manual Cayenne's and Cayman Rs without air conditioning for the press fleet and then left the country, is the company, country too, is that true? You ordered a bunch of manual Cayenne's and Cayman Rs without air conditioning for the press fleet and then left the company, is that true? Well, first off, I've told this story like a bunch of times in videos. You couldn't order a manual Cayenne without air conditioning, so that is obviously not true. Although the guy who was the head of PR at the time, Nick Tork, who now works at Lucid. He ordered a manual Cayenne for the press fleet. That was his decision. It was brilliant, and I'm glad he did it. The Cayman R incident was indeed true. I didn't leave the company right after, but I was given the order sheet, I still remember to this day, by the PR department
1:00:37 Doug DeMuro? for the press fleet of the Cayman Rs. And they had listed all the option, it was a spreadsheet. They had listed all the option codes and listed what all the options were. But they did not list the option code for air conditioning. They just wrote "air conditioning." And I, ordering the car, just went down the list of the option codes, because that's how you order the car. And I didn't, I just didn't, I mean, it was my mistake, but also kind of their mistake. We both owned up to it. The result was seven Cayman Rs without air conditioning were made. Peridot, high-spec cars. PCC, like, every option, but no AC. And needless to say, those cars were hard to put down. But it was not entirely my fault. It was, I think it was a 50/50 fault issue between me and the PR people. I don't know why they left off the air conditioning option code and put on every other one. And I should
1:01:19 Doug DeMuro? have read it a little closer and seen it. Probably the car shouldn't have been built like that either. Right. And also, I used to print off the build sheet and hand them to the PR people every time I'd build the car. So I think that they got the build sheet, but they probably just assumed AC was on the car, which would have been a good assumption, because typically to delete it, that was its own option and not to add it. But either way, I didn't leave the company right after. And honestly, the cars were pretty well received. The real problem was, when the press fleet was done, we had to figure out where to sell them. And that's harder. But there's like 10 or 12 Peridot Cayman Rs out there, high-spec Cayman Rs with no AC. And if you have one of those, you have a former-
1:01:52 Speaker 04 And it's a lighter car, which Motortrend would have loved when they waited.
1:01:55 Doug DeMuro? A lighter car, except it had every option and on. But honestly, if you have one of those, reach out, because we'd love to know where they are. We sent them all to the Northwest. So San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, we sent them all to the Northwest. But even then, they were probably tough sells. And of course, that was 13 years ago.
1:02:10 Speaker 04 Also, Cayman R was 2002. Color is a tough sell on its own.
1:02:13 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, I think they were all Peridot. There may have been some non-Peridot cars, but they were all no AC.
1:02:17 Speaker 04 Can you pull up a car of that color?
1:02:19 Doug DeMuro? I think we sold one. Cayman R, Peridot?
1:02:22 Speaker 04 Yeah, I think we have.
1:02:23 Doug DeMuro? Nope. No, I guess not. Okay, next question. Next question. Oh, this is a good one. From Luke 20s. Oh, look at that.
1:02:30 Speaker 04 I actually do love the color. For that car specifically, I love it less on Cayenne.
1:02:35 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:02:35 Doug DeMuro? Which do exist.
1:02:36 Speaker 05 That looks like winter tires.
1:02:38 Doug DeMuro? These are the, these are the right wheels. Oh, look at this in front of a, in front of a, it should not be there.
1:02:42 Speaker 05 No, it should not be in front of.
1:02:44 Doug DeMuro? That's the wrong car for that.
1:02:45 Speaker 05 Whatever house of the British or, uh, or, or either, I can't speak anymore. Whatever castle this is.
1:02:51 Doug DeMuro? Okay.
1:02:51 Speaker 05 Anyway.
1:02:52 Doug DeMuro? Uh, whatever, yeah, whatever grade two listed. They were like, oh, this looks cool. Okay. Luke 26 says, since we're on the theme of Kenan ranking things.
1:03:00 Speaker 05 Oh.
1:03:01 Doug DeMuro? Kenan, can you rank the BMW M5 generations?
1:03:05 Speaker 05 No problem. That's, yes, I think I've done this before, but, uh, E39 is at the top.
1:03:09 Doug DeMuro? E39's top grade.
1:03:10 Speaker 05 Big surprise.
1:03:11 Doug DeMuro? Yep.
1:03:11 Speaker 05 Let's say F10 M5 is next.
1:03:13 Doug DeMuro? What?
1:03:14 Speaker 05 I like that. Manual, manual, that's kind of.
1:03:17 Doug DeMuro? E60.
1:03:17 Speaker 05 I approve.
1:03:18 Doug DeMuro? No, no.
1:03:18 Speaker 05 E28. E60 is even more unreliable than all the other, the E60 be the greatest, but they're ludicrously unreliable.
1:03:26 Doug DeMuro? I'm not factoring in reliability.
1:03:27 Speaker 05 You should.
1:03:28 Doug DeMuro? I'm factoring in goodness, dude.
1:03:29 Speaker 05 Yeah, and goodness includes, can you drive it? Yeah.
1:03:32 Doug DeMuro? You can't often drive it.
1:03:33 Speaker 05 No, you can't often drive it and it's not that great as a paperweight.
1:03:37 Doug DeMuro? You know, E60 M5 would be the perfect car for someone like me who's gone for the summer because during that quarter of the year, I can have the car fixed and then I can use it for the remaining three quarters of the year.
1:03:47 Speaker 05 Won't be enough. I'm telling you, dude, it won't be enough. I love the E60 M5 a lot. I've driven them a ton, but I, I've always considered to be the M3 of them. The chassis is amazing, but you have to rev that engine super high because it doesn't really have any torque.
1:04:02 Doug DeMuro? Right.
1:04:02 Speaker 05 It's all about horsepower. It was a traditional M engine, actually. But the reason I like the F10 is just, it has the torque.
1:04:08 Doug DeMuro? You're putting the F10 second.
1:04:10 Speaker 05 Okay, fine.
1:04:10 Doug DeMuro? It's a stick.
1:04:11 Speaker 05 Yeah, so, so E39, F10, E60. I would then say probably.
1:04:18 Speaker 05 That's where it gets hard.
1:04:19 Doug DeMuro? It doesn't get hard.
1:04:21 Speaker 05 I don't.
1:04:21 Doug DeMuro? The black one with the beige interior.
1:04:24 Speaker 05 Black one with a beige interior.
1:04:26 Doug DeMuro? Oh, with the E28.
1:04:27 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, the E28, I've never driven an E28.
1:04:30 Doug DeMuro? I have, and it should be next, it should be after the E39 on your list.
1:04:33 Speaker 05 Okay, fine, we'll put, put E28 then, then I would probably say.
1:04:36 Doug DeMuro? No, he put E34 next by, by, E34's last, my friend.
1:04:40 Speaker 05 Well.
1:04:41 Doug DeMuro? Oh, because he doesn't like the new E.
1:04:43 Speaker 05 I know, Kevin. I actually like the G90, but that's probably the last.
1:04:47 Doug DeMuro? G90's the newest one.
1:04:49 Speaker 05 Yeah, that's the current one.
1:04:49 Doug DeMuro? F90 is the one before.
1:04:50 Speaker 05 F90's one before.
1:04:51 Doug DeMuro? F90 was the.
1:04:53 Speaker 05 Yes, yeah.
1:04:53 Doug DeMuro? All right.
1:04:54 Speaker 05 Yeah, so.
1:04:54 Doug DeMuro? That's your list.
1:04:55 Speaker 05 So E34, I think E34 just.
1:04:59 Speaker 05 I'd rather have an E34 or would I rather have an F90?
1:05:03 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, it's a question. You would rather have an E34.
1:05:04 Speaker 05 I think I'd rather have the E34 because of the manual. It's beautiful.
1:05:06 Doug DeMuro? I know you. Here's the correct answer.
1:05:08 Speaker 05 No, I see. So E39.
1:05:12 Doug DeMuro? Here's the correct answer. E39, E60, E28.
1:05:17 Speaker 05 Ooh.
1:05:17 Doug DeMuro? No, wait. I'm sorry.
1:05:19 Speaker 05 You're saying?
1:05:19 Doug DeMuro? E39, E60, F10, E28. Uh, F90. No, I'm sorry. G90.
1:05:27 Speaker 04 Newest one first.
1:05:28 Doug DeMuro? Newest one's great. F90.
1:05:30 Speaker 05 That's wrong.
1:05:30 Doug DeMuro? Then E34.
1:05:31 Speaker 05 Swap that, swap that around. Um.
1:05:34 Doug DeMuro? E34 is just too plastic and doesn't handle it all enough.
1:05:36 Speaker 04 First three are consistent.
1:05:37 Speaker 05 Great scream in 36 and it is.
1:05:39 Doug DeMuro? It's the best looking, except for maybe F10, maybe E39.
1:05:42 Speaker 05 In the words of Richard Hammond, there's never been a bad M5.
1:05:45 Doug DeMuro? I, it's worth pointing out, by the way, when we do these rankings, people write to us, they're so mad. Uh, we're, we're ranking in the great sphere of cars that's like this. We're ranking cars up here. I would take any M5 that I just mentioned over any car Filippo has ever even thought about owning.
1:06:00 Speaker 04 So true.
1:06:01 Speaker 05 Yeah, that's true.
1:06:02 Speaker 04 Except for maybe an E34. I've thought about owning some good cars.
1:06:06 Doug DeMuro? No, I don't think you have. Not seriously.
1:06:08 Speaker 04 I've, I've thought.
1:06:08 Doug DeMuro? Automatic C7 doesn't count. Okay.
1:06:10 Speaker 05 Maybe, the problem is you're also asking me on the spot. This is the last time I'm ever going to answer a question like this, to be clear.
1:06:15 Doug DeMuro? You did a good job, I think. I think your list is pretty good.
1:06:17 Speaker 05 Because like I got, it's very hard and I often will then think about it and go back on it. Like the V8 Ferrari thing, I.
1:06:22 Doug DeMuro? But I think.
1:06:22 Speaker 05 I liked, I would so much rather have a 348 than a 488. Like.
1:06:25 Doug DeMuro? Your list here is pretty, I mean, I think it's pretty lit.
1:06:28 Speaker 05 The F10 and the E60, you go back and forth like, because the V10 is godly, especially at like really big speed. It is amazing.
1:06:34 Doug DeMuro? Okay.
1:06:35 Speaker 05 But anyway, but they're all good. They're all good.
1:06:37 Doug DeMuro? They're all good. Some of them are great. Move on to the next. For me, the great ones are the first four. No, Filippo already deleted the list, but oh, E39, E60, F10, E28. Frankly, I would take any one of those four and happily drive it and love, love everything. And honestly, G90 I like too. Uh, and F90 and E34. Okay. Next question from OP Starfish.
1:06:55 Speaker 05 Ooh, great username.
1:06:56 Doug DeMuro? Do you think that modern day race cars will ever have the value of vintage racers? Or are they too specialized and hard to maintain to command the 40 million plus, plus inflation value that the vintage cars command? I don't know how you feel, but I think modern race cars will never even come close.
1:07:11 Speaker 04 Yep.
1:07:11 Doug DeMuro? To getting to the level of vintage race cars.
1:07:13 Speaker 05 I, I agree with that with the exception of like. Lewis Hamilton's like championship, the one that he won, like, like.
1:07:21 Doug DeMuro? Different.
1:07:21 Speaker 05 There are specific ones, specific chassis that will be very valuable. Will they, but like, the thing about the other, the thing about the cars from the 20th century is like that established the sport. Those were driven by legend. And so like, those will always command. Because regardless of what generation you're from, if you're into Formula One, you respect like Senna's MP44 or his MP45. You, that's what Senna is like.
1:07:44 Doug DeMuro? I guess, however, what about a Leam Prost?
1:07:48 Speaker 05 Those, I mean, those cars aren't as respected.
1:07:51 Doug DeMuro? But you get my point, because you're saying Lewis over here. You're talking about Lewis over here, but like in 50 years, will people care?
1:07:57 Speaker 05 Well, respect to Alain Prost, he was, he won four world championships. He was not the greatest driver, most successful driver in history, which is Lewis Hamilton.
1:08:07 Doug DeMuro? But my, but my point is, you get my point, like in 50 years, there will probably be seven more greatest drivers in history. Does anybody even care about Vettel anymore?
1:08:14 Speaker 05 Yeah, of course.
1:08:15 Doug DeMuro? But you see, you see what I'm saying, like as these people get replaced, the Nigel Mansell car will not, regardless, regardless. I think we're going down a rabbit hole because the purpose of the question is, will they have the same value? And maybe some of those will, but like, it is impossible to own a modern day race car.
1:08:31 Speaker 05 So there's the other thing you hit on. Yeah. The, I mean, old Formula One cars are really hard to take care of anyway. It's specialized equipment that, especially with the real estate stuff, engines, there are one engine for qualifying, one engine for racing. You know, I mean, but yeah, the cars are so complicated now with all the hybrid systems, stuff like, and that technology ages instantly.
1:08:49 Doug DeMuro? Instantly.
1:08:49 Speaker 05 So.
1:08:50 Doug DeMuro? And they don't support, it's not like a road car where like you go on eBay and buy parts, like, once the race car is done, they're done because they move on to the next racing technology. They're not sitting here trying to support like gentleman racers who have these things as, as, as value appreciators in their garage.
1:09:05 Speaker 05 And some teams do a better job than that. You know, McLaren has a great historic division, Mercedes Benz does too. They do keep spares around, do keep the cars functional and take them to things and blah, blah, blah. But like, if you're going to own it, like.
1:09:15 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
1:09:15 Speaker 05 I met somebody who has like all the Ferrari FXXX cars and like has all of the special Aston Martins and all that stuff. And he said, the F1 cars he has are like just impossible to take care of, like just.
1:09:26 Doug DeMuro? And to drive.
1:09:27 Speaker 04 Like that's the other chance.
1:09:28 Doug DeMuro? Whereas you can get in a 250 GTO, it's a fairly simple car and it is a tremendously enjoyable experience. And I think those cars were, and because they were seminal in the creation of some of these brands and sports. It's, it's never, it will never be the same. It will never be the same. You're buying a car versus buying art.
1:09:45 Speaker 04 There's two of them, right. The older race cars, even if, are, were based on cars fundamentally.
1:09:51 Doug DeMuro? Some of them were cars.
1:09:52 Speaker 04 Depending on the, depending on the.
1:09:53 Doug DeMuro? Some of them were cars. You just drove them to the race.
1:09:55 Speaker 04 Current Formula One cars.
1:09:57 Doug DeMuro? Oh, not that at all. And also there's like some like, I think the racing drivers matters.
1:10:01 Speaker 04 The company was also younger. Every company that built them was younger and you kind of like, it was a specific group of people, not like a nameless corporation to some extent.
1:10:10 Doug DeMuro? Right.
1:10:10 Speaker 04 Which I think is the case now.
1:10:11 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, I, I think there is a little bit of, whatever.
1:10:14 Speaker 04 There is a little bit of that.
1:10:15 Speaker 05 That's a little different.
1:10:16 Doug DeMuro? There is a little bit of that.
1:10:17 Speaker 05 Adrian Newey, like.
1:10:18 Doug DeMuro? But back in the day, Enzo was like watching the car go around Le Mans. Like you, if you have a 250 LM, you know that Enzo was in the stands ready to like beat up the driver if he didn't finish third or better.
1:10:30 Speaker 05 Right. Yeah, exactly. If, if there's an accident and the driver gets killed, he goes, oh, it's a shame. What about the car?
1:10:35 Doug DeMuro? Like that, that was, there was a special time in that period.
1:10:39 Speaker 05 Every vintage Ferrari like, like I ever see, the road ones, it doesn't matter. It's like, Enzo is in the factory.
1:10:44 Doug DeMuro? Enzo licked it.
1:10:45 Speaker 05 Enzo licked it.
1:10:47 Doug DeMuro? Um, okay. Next question from S. We'll do two more from S, which is sad because there's a lot more to do.
1:10:52 Speaker 04 Great question.
1:10:53 Doug DeMuro? From S Galley 17, Doug, do you enjoy washing your vehicles or do you let Kenan handle that? Uh, I hate washing my cars more than anything in the entire world. I think it's one of the most boring, physically demanding, annoying, difficult, awful things. And, um.
1:11:07 Speaker 04 And for me, it's Nirvana.
1:11:08 Doug DeMuro? I consider myself, I'm a driver, Kenan's a washer.
1:11:11 Speaker 05 No, I mean, I drive my car all the time.
1:11:13 Doug DeMuro? Kenan likes cleaning his car. I like to drive my car. Let, let me tell you this.
1:11:16 Speaker 05 I drive my car, I have one car, drive it every day.
1:11:19 Doug DeMuro? We put it this way, if I got two hours, Kenan, he sets up a podcast and cleans, I set up a starter drive. You know what I'm saying?
1:11:28 Speaker 04 He tried so hard there.
1:11:29 Speaker 05 He tried so hard. It didn't work.
1:11:31 Doug DeMuro? But my point is correct.
1:11:32 Speaker 05 I drive my cars. I like getting them dirty and then getting them cleaned again. Cleaning it is very satisfying and I do like cleaning your cars. It's fun.
1:11:38 Doug DeMuro? Ken does clean sometimes, but now that my cars don't live here anymore, my cars are now at my house because I built a garage for him. And so I have to clean them now. And it's incredibly annoying, unbelievably annoying.
1:11:50 Speaker 05 Well, hey, man, bring one back.
1:11:51 Doug DeMuro? You ever clean a car?
1:11:52 Speaker 04 Yeah, rarely.
1:11:53 Doug DeMuro? Have you?
1:11:53 Speaker 04 He taught me how to in a video.
1:11:55 Doug DeMuro? First and only time.
1:11:56 Speaker 05 A great student.
1:11:57 Speaker 04 Thank you. First and only time.
1:11:58 Doug DeMuro? Okay, last, two more questions, but one is very quick. Mr. B, Sean B, does Nick get any compensation for his videos on the Cars and Bids channel, or is he doing this solely for fun? Yeah, we pay him.
1:12:08 Doug DeMuro? We pay Nick.
1:12:08 Speaker 04 Do we need to?
1:12:09 Doug DeMuro? I don't know. I'm not convinced. I think he would do it without payment, but the thing I've learned about Nick is any payment helps him justify it. So like this Bentley, he's gonna lose a ton of money on this Bentley. But we give him like five grand and he's gonna lose like 20, but in his mind, he thinks that's even. Like, that's what Nick thinks is even. He's like, well, I've lost 20, but they gave me some cash and like, you know, it worked, it worked out. Like, that's how Nick thinks.
1:12:32 Speaker 05 Nick is concerned with purchase price and selling price and cost of ownership doesn't factor in.
1:12:36 Doug DeMuro? Doesn't really factor in, which is good for his situation.
1:12:38 Speaker 04 So true.
1:12:39 Doug DeMuro? Um, final question from Gwerin Gwerini Gweri Gweri Tom 40. In your guys' opinion, what makes a toxic car enthusiast?
1:12:49 Speaker 04 Hmm.
1:12:50 Doug DeMuro? I think the number one answer is gatekeeping. You can't be an enthusiast unless.
1:12:54 Speaker 04 I hate gatekeeping.
1:12:55 Doug DeMuro? The most annoying thing, oh, you have an automatic whatever? Well, that doesn't, you have a, you don't work on your own cars? You don't clean your cars? Well, then that doesn't go. You don't go to sideshows? Although that, I think you shouldn't be a real enthusiast.
1:13:09 Speaker 04 I do think that that is very toxic. I also don't love people that um, think they know more than they do.
1:13:17 Doug DeMuro? Oh, that's always a tough one.
1:13:18 Speaker 05 And boy, you can smell it in a second when someone doesn't know like exactly what they're doing, what they act like.
1:13:23 Speaker 04 Be open to learning. You don't have to pretend that you know everything, which I think goes to gatekeeping. Like, I think they were probably in relationships with people that, like friendships with people that like, if you need to know everything, you weren't true to do this, or you make things up.
1:13:35 Doug DeMuro? It's also deep yikes when people try to do that to someone who does know a lot. Dude, this guy's a D2 GT1 engine.
1:13:42 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:13:42 Doug DeMuro? That was like, woo!
1:13:44 Speaker 05 Once, yeah, yeah, but that's exactly right there for like I certainly I certainly don't know a lot about normal cars, but like I've said before, I am eager to learn more and today I actually went through and I have memorized the entire 2001 Honda like the cars that they make.
1:13:58 Doug DeMuro? Oh, yeah. Name the O1 Hondas.
1:14:00 Speaker 05 O1 Honda. So we got Accord Coupe, Accord Sedan.
1:14:03 Doug DeMuro? What a place to start.
1:14:04 Speaker 05 Civic Sedan.
1:14:05 Doug DeMuro? He's going alphabetically.
1:14:06 Speaker 05 No, I'm not, but we've got the Insight. We've got the Prelude, S2000, CRV.
1:14:16 Speaker 05 Ah, what's the?
1:14:16 Doug DeMuro? I think you're only missing one.
1:14:19 Speaker 05 Ah, yes, I know what it is. It's the other SUV. Uh, no, I'm missing two.
1:14:22 Doug DeMuro? No, O1, you got. O1, there was a. Oh, you're missing two. You're missing two.
1:14:26 Speaker 05 Yep, I'm missing two. Uh, shoot.
1:14:27 Doug DeMuro? And the fact, the fact that you don't know these, one of them I understand.
1:14:30 Speaker 05 Passport?
1:14:30 Doug DeMuro? Yep, and.
1:14:31 Speaker 05 And.
1:14:32 Doug DeMuro? What's the, what's the Magdaddy of O1 Honda, dude?
1:14:34 Speaker 05 Oh, the Odyssey.
1:14:35 Doug DeMuro? What shape? Yep.
1:14:36 Speaker 05 Boom, nailed it. All ten.
1:14:37 Doug DeMuro? Dude, what a time to be alive. The Prelude and the S2000 in the lineup, the NSX Accord Coupe. The NSX Accord Coupe. Cause it's headlights, yeah.
1:14:47 Doug DeMuro? You look at me like I'm crazy. Everybody knows that's the NSX Accord Coupe. Wow, what a time to be alive. The original CRV, that was the final year of the original CRV. Good car.
1:14:56 Speaker 05 It was a solid lineup of cars.
1:14:57 Doug DeMuro? Except for the Passport, which was a disaster. O3 had, no, O3 had the new Accord. But O3, you lost the Prelude. And you had the different gen Accord. Oh, we liked that Accord.
1:15:06 Speaker 05 But O1 was a.
1:15:07 Doug DeMuro? The Prelude ended in O1.
1:15:09 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, so.
1:15:10 Doug DeMuro? You had the what? Element. Oh, the Element was O1. The Element came out in O1. I thought I was trying to decide. Yeah, Element came out in O1. Honda was killing it in O1. It's like BMW in O1. O1, great year. Okay, uh, that's our final. The Element was revealed in O1 came out, not for the one model. It came up for the O2 model year, really?
1:15:27 Speaker 05 I'm pretty confident.
1:15:27 Doug DeMuro? They usually know stuff like that. I'm losing it. I'm absolutely losing it.
1:15:31 Speaker 05 Don't worry, we got you.
1:15:32 Doug DeMuro? Toxic car enthusiast trait. Another one is those people who leave cars and coffee burning out like anybody cares how their Dodge Charger exhaust is different from the last F80 M3 burble tune exhaust. It is so annoying and unsafe and stupid and nobody cares. And invariably, when people burn out like that in their burble tune F80 M3, everybody around me is like, what an idiot. Like, no one is sitting there being like, whoa. Man, how cool.
1:15:55 Speaker 05 Yep.
1:15:55 Doug DeMuro? Everybody thinks you're a loser.
1:15:57 Speaker 05 And if nobody gets hurt and you don't have an accident, the only other thing it results in is the event that you're going to getting shut down.
1:16:01 Doug DeMuro? It reflects poorly on the event and eventually it'll get.
1:16:04 Speaker 05 It gets shut down and it ruins it for everybody.
1:16:06 Doug DeMuro? But you know what? The guys who do that in G35s, they will get pulled over. I watch, one of my Instagram things that the algorithm has found for me is reels of people getting pulled over, leaving Cars and Coffee. Love it. And you know what? You go to the comments and people are always like, "You deserved it." And I'm like, "Yeah." Because they're always doing something really dumb. And then they're posting it and they're like, "I can't believe I got pulled over." And it's like, "I can."
1:16:27 Speaker 05 Yep. We all can. You're the one who can't.
1:16:29 Doug DeMuro? I, you know, I don't really care whatever, but like in other situations, but that is a really toxic thing, doing it right. Cars and Coffee. Nobody is impressed. Nobody thinks you're cool. Not one person.
1:16:40 Doug DeMuro? Anything else? Download the Cars and Bids app. Oh, wow. Oh, we're ending the pod. Download the Cars and Bids app. I don't know how, but go to the. Figure it out, people. We don't have enough time, Filippo. We gotta cut it. Ken, do you got any parting thoughts for us? Who's gonna win the Formula One race?
1:16:57 Speaker 05 Oh, I'm rooting for Ferrari, please.
1:16:59 Doug DeMuro? Who's driving the, oh, Lewis.
1:17:00 Speaker 05 Lewis.
1:17:01 Doug DeMuro? And some other fella.
1:17:02 Speaker 05 And Charles Leclerc, yes.
1:17:05 Speaker 05 You got nothing.
1:17:06 Doug DeMuro? Is he French?
1:17:06 Speaker 05 Not.
1:17:08 Doug DeMuro? They got a French fella driving?
1:17:09 Speaker 05 I don't have time for this.
1:17:11 Doug DeMuro? Where'd he learn to drive? On a Peugeot?
1:17:13 Speaker 05 All right, thank you for watching. Best podcast we've ever done.
1:17:16 Doug DeMuro? What's he in, a Citroen? Q Q good.
1:17:19 Speaker 05 Goodbye, everyone.
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