Episode 684: Clifford Olson Part III - Never Trust a Man with a New Hammer

The boys continue the story of Clifford Olson as his killing spree escalates and Canadian authorities somehow keep finding reasons to ignore the obvious. While one investigator finally starts putting the pieces together, Olson finds time to get married, give his hammer a bath, and take the family on a vacation from hell.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  On October 30th, Dexter Morgan is back. In this season, he's facing the scariest threat yet: middle age. A lifetime of blending in gets to you. And now Dexter is up against two rival killers stealing the spotlight. Taking them down means changing his MO, and things are gonna get messy. Starring Michael C. Hall, Uma Thurman, Dan Stevens, and Brian Cox. Dexter: Resurrection. New season, October 30th on the Paramount Plus Premium Plan.

• 0:32Marcus Parks?

  Last Podcast on the Left is all about the facts. So when Southern New Hampshire University came on as a sponsor, it was time to do some research. Turns out they offer more than 200 online degree programs, and get this, criminal justice and psychology are some of the most popular. Classes have no set meeting times and tuition rates are some of the lowest in the US. Want to learn even more about SNHU? Visit SNHU.edu/last.

• 1:01Speaker 02

  There's no place to escape to.

• 1:03Speaker 00

  This is the last podcast. On the left.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  That's when the cannibalism started.

• 1:21Marcus Parks?

  What?

• 1:24Speaker 03

  Who? Can't do it. Not allowed to do it anymore. What, you can't roll no more?

• 1:28Marcus Parks?

  No, we rolled a lot in the old days.

• 1:31Speaker 03

  This one's going out to the Canadians that I had message me that dared to say the words that Clifford Olson looked like Pedro Pascal. And I just want to say, what happened to you?

• 1:46Marcus Parks?

  I can kinda see it. I can kinda see it.

• 1:49Speaker 03

  If he was squashed by a giant boot, like a Monty Python foot hit him in the head.

• 1:55Speaker 04

  It looks like a Pedro Pascal action figure that was left on the rear view of your car.

• 2:01Speaker 03

  If you think that Clifford Olson looks like Pedro Pascal, you need human touch.

• 2:07Marcus Parks?

  Okay, I'm gonna say bee sting Pedro Pascal. Some guys look like bee sting versions of other guys.

• 2:12Speaker 03

  He looks like...

• 2:13Speaker 04

  But he's tiny!

• 2:14Speaker 03

  He looks like my memory of Pedro Pascal.

• 2:16Marcus Parks?

  I'm sorry dude, I'm staring at him right now, he looks almost exactly like him.

• 2:20Speaker 04

  He does, he does.

• 2:20Speaker 03

  But no, he doesn't! He doesn't though!

• 2:23Speaker 04

  He has a good... It is... No, I could see where they're coming from, but it's definitely like...

• 2:28Speaker 03

  It's a reach!

• 2:29Speaker 04

  If Pedro Pascal slashed tires for a living.

• 2:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, if Pedro Pascal without the skin treatments, Pedro Pascal without the money, Pedro Pascal with the hair, without the hair treatments, without all the wonderful, like the glam squad and all of the stuff.

• 2:44Marcus Parks?

  Without the hair treatments, I'm looking at two pictures right now, 30 years apart, and they have the exact same hairstyle.

• 2:50Speaker 03

  Look at that picture! Look at the next picture! He looks nothing like him!

• 2:53Marcus Parks?

  Welcome to Last Podcast on the Left, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Marcus Parks, and I'm here with Pedro Pascal's number one fan, Henry Zebrowski.

• 3:01Speaker 04

  I love, I love my bisexual lead. He's my bisexual lead. Call him the Mandalorian. Yeah!

• 3:12Speaker 04

  Can't pull Grogu off my fucking balls!

• 3:17Marcus Parks?

  And we have the man with the common sense, Ed Larson.

• 3:20Speaker 04

  How you doing? How you doing? I can't wait to watch Mandalorian and Grogu again, just watch Grogu suck his own penis one more time. So brave! To full completion.

• 3:32Speaker 04

  People say that they don't, they don't have the balls to make art anymore.

• 3:37Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, not anything, stuff that makes you think. You know, and watching that little alien try to suck his own dick for 45 minutes.

• 3:46Speaker 04

  The whole time he's trying to suck and suck and suck, it's like, just use your telekinesis. Yeah. Ask your buddy!

• 3:54Marcus Parks?

  And here we are, ladies and gentlemen, we're here at Clifford Olson, Part 3.

• 3:58Speaker 03

  Part 3!

• 4:00Marcus Parks?

  See, so when we last left Clifford Olson, he'd just committed his first known murder at the age of 40 because his car had gotten stuck in the mud after he'd abducted and violated a 12-year-old girl. Or at least, or at least, that was the chain of events that Clifford described.

• 4:16Speaker 03

  Don't let anybody tell you life's over at 40. You can always change gears.

• 4:21Marcus Parks?

  Clifford had reasoned that he couldn't very well call a tow truck with a 12-year-old girl passed out in the backseat of his car, so the girl had to go before the tow truck came. But because Clifford Olson had little to no experience in murdering another human being, the murder of Christine Weller had been a torturous, drawn-out affair. But as opposed to other serial killers who become more efficient with their murders as time goes on, the chaotic nature of Clifford's own soul would ensure that his murders would become only more protracted and cruel each time he took a life. See, even though Clifford didn't commit his first known murder until the age of 40, he found that he liked it once he had finally taken the plunge.

• 5:03Marcus Parks?

  And because he was such a psychopathic narcissist, he looked at his victims as nothing more than playthings. They existed to satisfy first his own desires, and eventually, his growing sadistic curiosity.

• 5:17Speaker 03

  Let's open for nuance though, Marcus. That's my whole thing is nuance when it comes to child murder. I think it's super important to just know that sometimes kids are super annoying. That's a nuanced take.

• 5:30Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, that is a nuanced, yes, nuanced Henry Zebrowski.

• 5:34Speaker 03

  Thank you every day!

• 5:37Marcus Parks?

  Now Clifford's first known victim, Christine Weller, was the product of a so-called broken home. Wasn't anything intense, her parents were just divorced, her home life was hectic, but in 1980, having divorced parents drastically changed how the cops treated a case like Christine Weller's.

• 5:54Speaker 03

  So sad. Yeah, so sad. Your parents get divorced and you get extra grilled by the police because your parents got divorced?

• 6:02Speaker 04

  Well, you get no attention from the police.

• 6:04Marcus Parks?

  None whatsoever. The cops are just like, eh, never mind. See, when Christine's disappearance was reported to police by her father the same day she disappeared, the authorities gave him the same answer they gave to the parents of most of Clifford Olson's victims. She's a runaway, this happens all the time, she'll be back, stop bothering us, where's the nearest Tim Hortons?

• 6:27Marcus Parks?

  However, I do think that before we get into this, we do need to get some perspective when it comes to the Canadian authorities in the 1980s, as well as some perspective on the laziness that we're gonna come back to again and again for the rest of this series. See, we like to rag on Canada, partly because Canadians live healthier, happier, and safer lives than what we live in America, and we are jealous.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  Sorry guys, when we make fun of you, it's punching up. So you guys fucking suck! Fuck all of you fucking whores!

• 6:59Speaker 04

  Literally, they're above us.

• 7:01Marcus Parks?

  But in all honesty, I think Canada's safety is what makes Canadians a little silly. It's why they have the best sketch groups in fucking history. But it also is what made Clifford Olson so dangerous. Now personally, it's hard for me to wrap my head around just how safe Canada has historically been. Because the gap between homicide rates in Canada and homicide rates in the United States, it is so wide that it really does make you wonder what the fuck is wrong with America?

• 7:32Speaker 03

  It's just in our blood!

• 7:34Marcus Parks?

  Well, there's reasons behind it. But in 1975, for example, which is within just half a decade of Clifford Olson's murder spree, Canada had 701 murders nationwide across a country of 23 million people.

• 7:50Speaker 04

  You know, that's more than I would've guessed.

• 7:51Marcus Parks?

  Yeah? Yeah, 701, the entire year. By contrast, in that same year, 1975, America had 1,645 homicides amongst the 8 million people of New York City alone.

• 8:07Speaker 03

  Hey, we invented jazz!

• 8:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, and all those fuckers were standing at the top of the subway stairs or some shit. They all went in a couple of building fires!

• 8:21Marcus Parks?

  So while it does appear that the RCMP was incredibly lazy over and over again when it came to the disappearances of these kids, cops are trained all over the world to look for the most likely solution when investigating a crime. And in Canada, murder was not even close to the most likely solution.

• 8:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was like, it was literally more likely like maple syrup heist and like, a squirrel got a hold of your grandma's fucking medical ID bracelet. Like, these are the big crimes.

• 8:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, lost in the snow, that's usually what it was.

• 8:54Marcus Parks?

  Big one.

• 8:54Speaker 03

  Can I mention tax evasion or something like that?

• 8:57Marcus Parks?

  Now that's not to say there wasn't laziness involved here. The murders weren't well investigated even when bodies were found, and rape allegations against Clifford Olson were repeatedly ignored, ignored for decades. But in the minds of these investigators, a serial killer in Vancouver in 1980 was just about as likely as a rash of alien abductions.

• 9:16Speaker 03

  And let's just face it, rape allegations and rape investigations are still struggling across not just Canada, in the United States of America, obviously.

• 9:26Speaker 04

  The entire world.

• 9:26Speaker 03

  And so it is one of those where when it comes to sexual assault, that is a whole other kitten caboodle.

• 9:32Speaker 04

  It is.

• 9:34Speaker 03

  And I don't like that term.

• 9:36Speaker 04

  Which sounds like a form of sexual assault against kittens.

• 9:39Speaker 03

  In Canada! Oh, well, he's definitely, he's guilty of third-degree canoodling or...

• 9:47Marcus Parks?

  A caboodler?

• 9:48Speaker 03

  He's a caboodler!

• 9:49Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, that guy's a real caboodler out there.

• 9:50Speaker 03

  A caboodler is when you turn a child into applesauce. Put whiskers on it.

• 9:57Marcus Parks?

  Well, point is, when kids started going missing in the Vancouver area as a result of Clifford Olson, a suggestion of murder was most likely met with someone saying, hey, slow down there bud, you don't want to be thinking this is America here. This is not what happens in Canada. Now because Canadian authorities did not automatically suspect murder, Christine Weller's disappearance was forgotten. In fact, it was forgotten so quickly and so thoroughly that when Clifford Olson decided a few days after the murder to drive by the spot where he'd picked her up, her abandoned bicycle was still laying on the ground where she'd left it. In other words, it was like Christine Weller had never even existed at all.

• 10:38Marcus Parks?

  Aside from her own family's grief, her disappearance had been inconsequential, especially when it came to affecting Clifford Olson's little world. So Clifford immediately returned to picking up underage kids to drug and violate them on a regular basis. Because if making a girl disappear didn't get the attention of the authorities, then fucking nothing would.

• 10:59Speaker 03

  Yeah. Oh, I'd like to put this out there just for you know, this is just for my own amusement. If someone could do some form of animation of Clifford the big red dog doing these crimes as we describe them, I feel like that'd be great for everybody.

• 11:14Speaker 04

  He's got no thumbs for the hammer!

• 11:16Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 11:19Speaker 04

  In America, that bicycle would've been stolen.

• 11:26Marcus Parks?

  Now Clifford Olson did take a break in early December to take a trip with Joan to Hawaii for ten days. Aww. But if you believe Clifford, the break really only benefited the people in Vancouver. Clifford claimed that during those ten days, he raped and killed two children in Honolulu. But while there was no corroborating missing persons records, Clifford was arrested for pulling a knife on the owner of a Honolulu bar called The Rosen Crown. The charges were dropped, but police kept the knife in evidence. And when that knife was tested, after Olson made claims of murder in Hawaii, human bloodstains were indeed found on his weapon. But no murders have been definitively linked to Olson's vacation.

• 12:10Speaker 04

  Honolulu can get fucked up.

• 12:12Marcus Parks?

  Yeah.

• 12:12Speaker 04

  I don't know if you guys have ever like seen the senior side of Honolulu. The last time I was there, I went in that neighborhood, I was like, "Oh, it happens here too."

• 12:21Marcus Parks?

  Oh, oh my god.

• 12:23Speaker 03

  Well, I always remember Mark David Chapman, he went out to Hawaii, went particularly insane out there. Hawaii's like, what do you get, that island fever?

• 12:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, no, it seems like it would be perfect, but actually it's like, eh, man, eh, be careful.

• 12:38Speaker 03

  It's still America, we brought, we exported America there, don't worry.

• 12:44Marcus Parks?

  Now Christine Weller's body was eventually found on Christmas Day, 1980. The investigation was given to an RCMP corporal named Fred Miley, Chief Investigator of the Serious Crimes Unit.

• 12:57Speaker 03

  Deadly, deadly serious, no. He's hard to say, but you wanna go join the silly crimes unit, you go join the silly crimes unit. And honestly, I wish I could, but all the openings are taken because of the silly putty riots of 1979. And how often people were stealing intellectual property using the mimicry ability of silly putty. In this building, we take crimes seriously. But in that building, we take crimes hilarious. Oh, you're hilarious. That's hilarious. That's hilarious, go to the other building.

• 13:32Marcus Parks?

  What kind of crimes you investigate, all you know, serious ones.

• 13:37Speaker 03

  Oh, Mr. Braggery. Oh, Mr. Important Serious Guy.

• 13:47Marcus Parks?

  This is why, this is why we make fun of you.

• 13:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, dude, it's so easy, this is amazing.

• 13:53Marcus Parks?

  Now, as head of the Serious Crimes Unit, Corporal Fred Miley had developed a strange and wildly erroneous fixation on the homicidal habits of homosexual men. And he applied that fixation when the bodies of youngsters started popping up around Vancouver. Again and again, when the RCMP found murder victims, corpses that had been made and left by Clifford Olson, Corporal Miley's first instinct was usually to ask, "But what if a homosexual had done it? Have you thought about that possibility? Cause I think it's a very strong one."

• 14:24Speaker 03

  Now, interesting, now that we see the evidence laid out, alright, we see here, we got here, we have the, this is the bow and arrow used. Over here, we have, oh, this is the target that he was working on. He must have been a homosexual.

• 14:42Speaker 03

  It's every day.

• 14:43Speaker 04

  There's never like, you never hear of like lesbian, like a closeted lesbian killing a bunch of lesbians?

• 14:48Marcus Parks?

  Never, no, no, it doesn't.

• 14:49Speaker 04

  It never happens.

• 14:50Speaker 03

  That would be a hilarious crime. And that would need to be investigated in the building across the street, in our flannel district.

• 15:02Speaker 03

  Can you please put that in the butch haircut department? That'd be great.

• 15:08Marcus Parks?

  Well, because of Miley's fixation, the RCMP focused their investigation into the murder of Christine Weller first on Christine's father, as a result of suspicions that were aired by Christine's mother. Christine's mother had told the cops that she suspected that Christine's father was gay because the two of them didn't have sex that often, and he seemed, wink wink, to prefer the company of men to the company of his wife and family. So, the investigation wasted a lot of time investigating Christine's father.

• 15:42Speaker 03

  He just wanted peace and quiet.

• 15:45Speaker 03

  Can I just watch hockey, you fucking beast?

• 15:49Marcus Parks?

  I'm sorry, I don't wanna fuck my horrible wife and I like hanging out with my buddies.

• 15:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, guess I'm gay. I tell you what, every single time we went to investigate him, we just ended up hanging out.

• 16:01Speaker 03

  And I gotta say, that's the best gay hang I've ever had. That was just amazing, just watching, he just crazy sit there with just a gay guy, watching TV, having some suds. I can't even believe, I didn't know they just hung out.

• 16:17Marcus Parks?

  And what do you know, they did the same thing that the Drake guys did, we just wa- Oh my god.

• 16:21Speaker 03

  Oh god, no, no, no.

• 16:24Marcus Parks?

  Uh, Miley, you did it again.

• 16:32Marcus Parks?

  Clifford Olson, meanwhile, became obsessed with the media coverage around Christine Weller's murder. And like so many serial killers before and after, he inserted himself into the investigation by repeatedly driving to the murder scene to chat up investigators.

• 16:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, what you doing over there?

• 16:50Speaker 03

  What you got going on over there, you gotta tell me twice, I have ADHD.

• 16:56Marcus Parks?

  You make that joke, but there are certain things in this episode that I'm like, this guy definitely has ADHD. He's definitely got it, yeah.

• 17:03Speaker 03

  I also think that genuinely what we brought up on the last episode is that he liked cops.

• 17:07Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, yeah, he really did, I mean, he just, he liked cops, he liked being near them, he liked, cause he just learned. He was always learning. And Clifford also began testing the waters when it came to how much people would accept the rape and murder of a child. He actually asked his friend Ron, like, "Hey Ron, what would you do if you knew someone who'd, I don't know, raped and stabbed a girl?"

• 17:32Speaker 03

  That's a funny hypothetical. Oh, you know, oh, this is one of those Woodrow others. I hate, I hate trolley problems.

• 17:41Speaker 03

  So, yeah, so which one hits the, the priest?

• 17:45Marcus Parks?

  And Ron said like, "No, of course I'd turn the guy in." But Ron also remembered that around Christmas 1980, Clifford was putting this hypothetical to a lot of people, but it doesn't seem like anyone said like, "Oh, you know, I'd be fine with it, why'd you ask?"

• 18:00Speaker 03

  I'd love to help. Why didn't you call me before? I would have loved to have been there to hear her screams. Please let me hear the screams next time. Oh, more eggnog, please. Oh, very good. Ah, everybody gets one, one present to open up. Oh, good, Cliff got a new hammer. Oh, great.

• 18:21Speaker 04

  You know, you never trust someone with a new hammer.

• 18:24Marcus Parks?

  Mmm.

• 18:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, they don't know what they're doing if they show up with a new hammer.

• 18:27Marcus Parks?

  Interesting.

• 18:28Speaker 03

  Well, you're talking about, that's a, that's a construction, like.

• 18:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, I learned that.

• 18:32Speaker 03

  Red flag.

• 18:32Speaker 04

  I learned that when I brought a new hammer somewhere.

• 18:36Speaker 03

  What, just some guys like, "Never bring a new hammer around me." "Oh, so you some kinda new hammer loving?"

• 18:42Speaker 04

  I needed, I brought a, I had a hammer, I brought it to work when I was working, uh, in the kitchen. And then they were like, it was like a new hammer, cause I'd never use it, cause I don't know how to fix anything. And then my boss was like, "Never bring a new hammer anywhere, it shows that you don't know what you're doing."

• 18:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, but what are you supposed to, it's not like you were cooking with it.

• 18:56Speaker 04

  No, it wasn't, I mean, it's fine, it was good advice. I was trying to give it to you, and you take it.

• 19:00Speaker 03

  I'm not a handy person. Literally, I can't even take, like, advice about tools.

• 19:06Speaker 04

  I'm just saying, if you buy a new hammer, cover it in shit, and then show up somewhere.

• 19:11Marcus Parks?

  Bang it against a fence. Good idea. Now, after eliminating Christine's father as a suspect, the RCMP labeled Christine Weller as a broken home runaway, and the investigation never led to Clifford Olson. The nearest the cops got to Clifford was investigating a motel called The Bonanza, where Clifford was known to sometimes stay. Incredibly, police found a different creep staying at The Bonanza who falsely confessed to raping both Christine and other kids in the area. And blood was found in this creep's motel room that matched Christine's blood type.

• 19:45Speaker 03

  God, poor Christine.

• 19:47Marcus Parks?

  I don't know, I don't, it, I, it was entirely false. Like, this guy had nothing, yeah, he had no-

• 19:52Speaker 03

  I just thought she had separate horrible incidents.

• 19:54Marcus Parks?

  No, no, no, no, just matched her blood type. This is before DNA, so it's just like, you know, they both had A positive or something.

• 20:01Speaker 03

  I just have a hobby of getting called into police stations and getting free water.

• 20:07Speaker 03

  That's my thing, that's what I like.

• 20:09Marcus Parks?

  But since there wasn't enough evidence to convict this creep and his polygraph tests were inconclusive, Corporal Miley decided that it was good enough to just know that this guy in the motel had probably done it. In other words, Corporal Miley marked Christine Weller's murder as solved in his own head. And he therefore moved on to the next investigation.

• 20:31Speaker 03

  That's where the Mounties always get their man, except if he slightly deviates. And just slightly turns to the right and then- They'll let their man go.

• 20:42Marcus Parks?

  Now, it's not like Clifford Olson was not a known sex pest. The male and female teenagers that he drugged and sexually assaulted would often go to the police after the fact, but usually, nothing would be done. If something was done, Clifford would always, and I do mean always, manage to weasel his way out of it, and sometimes he had help. For example, when Clifford was charged with rape and locked up in January of 1981, he contacted a massive piece of shit attorney who has a massive piece of shit name, Bob Shance. And Shance would eventually represent Clifford in his murder trial.

• 21:19Speaker 03

  Your honor, your honor, I wanna, oh, is my toupee on bad news? Like, he's the guy, he's got the sideburns hanging in the back, and he's got the collar, god, he's great. Call Bob and you Shance be going to jail.

• 21:33Marcus Parks?

  I just see him as a fat guy that wears a tie that's too short for him.

• 21:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like, the pants are like-

• 21:38Speaker 04

  Right up under the tits. Yeah, I know the look.

• 21:40Speaker 03

  Take a chance. Call Shance. We'll get you out of jail.

• 21:44Marcus Parks?

  Someone get me new pants. Cause I just met Bob Shance.

• 21:49Speaker 04

  Free donuts.

• 21:50Marcus Parks?

  Well, in 1981, Bob Shance discredited the girl who accused Clifford of rape by calling her a sex worker. This absolutely worked because by the end of it, Clifford Olson was set free while the girl he allegedly raped got a warrant for prostitution.

• 22:07Marcus Parks?

  Took the, alright, take the cuffs off of you. Put them on her. Like, just in the same room. Well, not even the birth of Clifford's first child could stop Clifford from committing more sexual assaults. And I don't mean this in the sense that like Clifford became a father and changed his ways. I mean, the actual event of his son's birth did not stop him. Reportedly, while the other adults in his life were busy celebrating Clifford's new baby with his wife Joan, Clifford molested three children on the day his son was born.

• 22:42Speaker 04

  You know, my dad wasn't there when I was born, but at least he was just eating Arby's.

• 22:46Speaker 03

  You know? It kinda makes you reevaluate.

• 22:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, cause I really, it always kinda bothered me, but hearing this. Have your Arby's. What's a beef and cheddar amongst family?

• 22:56Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 22:56Marcus Parks?

  Idle hands. And I've also, I have been requested to correct the record. My father was at the hospital when I was born.

• 23:04Speaker 03

  Oh, that's nice.

• 23:05Marcus Parks?

  Your mom got involved, yeah. I had misunderstood the story that my Uncle Joe had told and he was there.

• 23:11Speaker 04

  Oh, that's.

• 23:11Marcus Parks?

  So, yeah.

• 23:12Speaker 03

  Do you think that Clifford Olson could have used a switch?

• 23:15Speaker 04

  What do you mean, like a, like a stick that his parents beat him with?

• 23:18Speaker 03

  No, the video game system. I think that if that could have cut a lot of his crimes in half, he could have been kept busy with, with, with Quake.

• 23:26Marcus Parks?

  Yeah.

• 23:27Speaker 04

  Oh, but yeah.

• 23:28Speaker 03

  XCOM.

• 23:29Speaker 04

  Or even like one of those like mazes with a marble.

• 23:31Speaker 03

  Oh, hmm, that's kinda hmm.

• 23:33Marcus Parks?

  It's 1980, yeah.

• 23:35Speaker 04

  It would have been something like that.

• 23:36Marcus Parks?

  Oh, cup and ball game.

• 23:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:37Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, give him a cup and ball game.

• 23:39Speaker 03

  Oh, he's not an orphan. He eats up with lights on it.

• 23:43Marcus Parks?

  That's a wheel with a stick.

• 23:48Speaker 03

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• 26:17Speaker 03

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• 28:10Speaker 05

  Fly from your grave.

• 28:13Marcus Parks?

  Now, Clifford Olson never felt guilty for anything he ever did. So, for him, the murder of a 12-year-old girl only opened new avenues of criminal thought. Now that he knew he was capable of murder, he started brainstorming with himself to see how he could use murder to his every advantage. For a time, Clifford Olson thought about killing an ex-con, amputating the victim's hands, and removing the skin to make himself a pair of gloves made from human flesh.

• 28:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:42Marcus Parks?

  That way, he could wear these meat gloves while committing crimes and the fingerprints left behind would send investigators chasing after a dead man.

• 28:50Speaker 04

  Why, and that's amazing. That's a great idea. I mean, that's the first time I've heard it. It's obviously gonna dry out.

• 28:56Speaker 03

  It's not actually a good idea.

• 28:59Speaker 04

  It is, but it shows he's thinking.

• 29:01Marcus Parks?

  Well, it's very high concept.

• 29:02Speaker 03

  It's very high.

• 29:04Marcus Parks?

  But Clifford had also learned that murder could be just another tool for getting on jams that he had created for himself. Or at least that's how it began. Because it soon became obvious that Clifford Olson very much enjoyed the act of murder.

• 29:19Speaker 03

  I don't want somebody else's hands getting to do it.

• 29:23Speaker 03

  I'm thinking it's nice when it's my hands. That's what I started to realize. I've been like, what, who's gonna have bigger hands than me?

• 29:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, I didn't wanna get my hands dirty, but then I realized when I put on the skin gloves, there was blood inside.

• 29:34Speaker 03

  I'm still getting dirty. I gotta wash my hands after using my gloves? What are we even doing here? I'll just rape him and kill him with my, with my normal hands.

• 29:44Marcus Parks?

  How did this gene fella do it? How did he pull it off?

• 29:48Speaker 03

  Howdy, howdy, crock it. Howdy, fucking crock it.

• 29:51Marcus Parks?

  Now Clifford Olson did not immediately begin turning to murder to solve his problems, but it still only took five months before he killed again. This time, however, Clifford was obviously planning to commit murder when he went out looking for a victim on April 15th, 1981, right after the birth of his son.

• 30:10Speaker 03

  This is actually not uncommon amongst serial killers.

• 30:13Marcus Parks?

  It really isn't, John.

• 30:14Speaker 03

  Dennis Rader was like that.

• 30:15Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, a big, a lot of them kill around the birth of a child. It's very strange.

• 30:20Speaker 03

  It's stressful.

• 30:21Marcus Parks?

  Gacy did as well.

• 30:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's super stressful being a new dad.

• 30:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, one out, one in, I get it.

• 30:27Speaker 04

  Jesus Christ.

• 30:29Marcus Parks?

  Well, after visiting Joan and the baby in the hospital around 7:00 PM, Olson left to ostensibly go home to pick up fresh clothes for his wife. Instead, Clifford stole some syringes on his way out and left the hospital to commit murder. He quickly picked up a 13-year-old named Colleen Diagnow from a gas station and pulled the same routine that he had on Christine Weller, which this would become Clifford's MO for almost every victim. He told Colleen, just as he told Christine, that he was gonna pay her $10 an hour, which was fucking ridiculous in 1980. I remember the first time I made $7 an hour in 2002, in 2001, I thought I was a fucking millionaire.

• 31:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:12Marcus Parks?

  But he was gonna pay her $10 an hour to wash windows for his construction company with other girls who all smoked weed while they did it. But while Clifford was giving Colleen this spiel, he was also giving her beers drugged with a sedative that he obtained legally again and again to treat his supposed insomnia. He kept getting prescriptions for chloral hydrate. Doctors never ask questions. Clifford, however-

• 31:36Speaker 04

  Well, he looks so sleepy.

• 31:37Speaker 03

  He does, actually.

• 31:38Speaker 04

  You could use a skin treatment like his fucking idol, Pedro Pascal.

• 31:43Marcus Parks?

  Clifford, however, had upped his con game by the time he picked up Colleen. To embolden his claims that he was the owner of a legit construction company, he had printed even fancier business cards that had Olson and Olson Enterprises embossed in an expensive holographic font. But while some people would look at Clifford's attempts to look impressive as the literal calling card of a con man, the cards were impressive enough to fool people who didn't know any better. I mean, yet, it fooled 13-year-old girls, but these cards also fooled other construction companies who fell prey to Clifford's scams over and over again.

• 32:20Speaker 04

  I miss business cards.

• 32:21Marcus Parks?

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:22Speaker 04

  You know, but at the same time, if someone hands me one, it just goes right in the trash.

• 32:25Marcus Parks?

  Right in the garbage.

• 32:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:28Marcus Parks?

  Not doing, not doing nothing with it.

• 32:29Speaker 03

  I just fucking deeply embarrassed myself at a hangout. So I went with Sina, very nice. We went to this-

• 32:39Marcus Parks?

  Sina, host of The Foreign Report here on the network.

• 32:40Speaker 03

  Yes, we went to a Japanese cultural appreciation night where we had, it was a record, the guys were listening to records and they were having Japanese whiskey. It was really nice. It was very classy, way too classy. We got fucking hammered. And I met two lovely Japanese businessmen and they, there's a whole ritual around business cards.

• 33:02Marcus Parks?

  Oh, yeah.

• 33:03Speaker 03

  There's like a whole thing. I have no fucking idea. So it's like when it first happened, because they bow, or they bow and you're supposed to take the business cards with the two hands from the guy. And I was like, because then they're like, and so when I did, I'm fucking up and Sina's like, fix it, do it, take it, do it. And then I was just like, but then I don't have a business card. And the way they looked at me, it was like, literally like, oh, you're not a real anything.

• 33:23Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, you're not a man.

• 33:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, you suck. And I was like, yeah.

• 33:27Speaker 04

  He used to have a fucked up business card. What was it again?

• 33:30Speaker 03

  Well, it was the massage one. It was the one that was like, it was a woman getting massaged by hands.

• 33:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's right.

• 33:37Marcus Parks?

  Now, the murder of Christine Weller had been long, arduous, and frustrating. So Clifford Olson claimed that he planned to try something different with Colleen Diagnow after she'd passed out from the drug beers and Clifford had committed the initial sexual assault. Instead of strangling Colleen, Clifford tried using one of the syringes he'd stolen from the hospital to pump air into her bloodstream because Clifford said he'd read somewhere that this was a quick and easy way to kill someone.

• 34:05Speaker 04

  That's a lie. We know he doesn't read.

• 34:08Speaker 03

  It's also just not, it is not a quick or painless or easy way to kill somebody.

• 34:12Marcus Parks?

  No, but when Olson couldn't find an artery, he got frustrated and gave up on that idea. Now, Colleen had woken up after being stabbed by a syringe over and over, but she was still drugged. So Clifford drove her to another isolated location where he'd claimed to have just built a house. Since Colleen was still under the influence, she went along with it. Once they got to the location, Clifford told her they had to walk up a trail to a tree stump where he'd hidden a spare key. But once they started the short hike and Colleen's back was turned, Clifford decided it was finally time to try out the hammer. He brought his claw hammer down onto the back of Colleen's head, burying the head of the tool in her skull.

• 34:54Marcus Parks?

  But Clifford claimed that the blood and gore that came as a result of this fatal blow disgusted him. In fact, he said he was too grossed out to become aroused again, even though he'd really wanted to go one more time. But since he claimed that the blood had turned him off, he stripped the corpse naked, covered it in leaves and sticks, and burned Colleen's clothes. This would become Clifford's cleanup MO for most of his murders. But incredibly, after the murder, he returned to the hospital to see his wife and child. He'd been gone for just three hours. And even though he had blood on his clothes from the hammer blow, he managed to somehow explain it away.

• 35:35Marcus Parks?

  From what it seems like, Joan was more concerned that Clifford had been gone all evening but had forgotten to bring her the fresh clothes she had been promised.

• 35:44Speaker 03

  Oh, all this red? Pomegranate juice.

• 35:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, pomegranate juice. I went to go get pomegranates. It's very healthy.

• 35:57Marcus Parks?

  They're just tricky fruit.

• 35:58Speaker 03

  Hard to eat. Took me three hours to crack it open. And once I cracked it open, I saw the little eggs in it and I was disgusted. That's why I cracked it open. This here hammer. This here hammer, you can see, it's covered in pomegranate juice.

• 36:16Marcus Parks?

  Now, Colleen Diagnow was from another so-called broken home, so it took six days for her grandmother to even report her missing. The grandmother believed Colleen had been staying at a friend's house the whole week, but once again, police didn't even bother looking for Colleen because they immediately wrote her off as a runaway. The same day that Colleen was reported missing, though, Clifford Olson took his first male victim, and this was just six days after murdering his second female victim. Clifford's first male victim was a 16-year-old named Darren Johnsrood, who'd gone to Coquitlam to spend spring break with his mother.

• 36:52Speaker 03

  Oh, you've never seen a mother take, take a fucking moose head like my fucking mother does? She'll took three in her mouth and she'll suck it down while the boys are doing it to her from her behind. I love doing spring break with my mother.

• 37:08Speaker 04

  I did forget for two seconds there that moose head is a beer.

• 37:11Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, as did I. I also had to make that, I was like, what the fuck is he talking about? I think he's lost his fucking mind.

• 37:20Speaker 03

  Moose head is, it's fine. I do like it. It's fine.

• 37:23Marcus Parks?

  Well, Clifford picked Darren up at a gas station, just as he'd picked up Colleen. And he gave the same construction worker speech that was now becoming routine. Supposedly, Darren was all in immediately on getting paid to drink beer and smoke weed while working, saying, hey, this is the kind of employer I like.

• 37:41Speaker 03

  God bless.

• 37:41Marcus Parks?

  I mean, you know, I'd always thought that Jan Wayne Gacy was an anomaly when it came to contractors letting teenagers drink beer and smoke weed on the job, but judging by Darren's reaction to Clifford's offer, it seems like this phenomenon might have been more common in the 70s and 80s than I'd originally thought.

• 37:57Speaker 03

  I don't know. I've seen a couple of construction crews at my house that sort of really enjoy a couple of bottles of beer. You know, I'm done, you give it out, you know, it's great.

• 38:06Marcus Parks?

  Yeah. I mean, on the other hand, when I worked construction when I was 17, in the year 2000, like, you know, decades after all this, all the guys who put up drywall, they were doing meth on the job constantly so they could work for days on end without stopping. And those dudes really liked watching like extraordinarily graphic pornography on VHS tapes that they brought with them to the work. They brought, it was journeyman construction. We were all on Tex Arcana. We go back to this apartment that we're all sharing together and all of a sudden I'm watching like prolapsed assholes while I'm trying to eat my fucking turkey sandwich. This should not come as a surprise to me personally.

• 38:42Speaker 04

  No. I mean, also, you know, stereotypes are dangerous, but whenever there's like a harassing women PSA, it's always a construction worker. Every single time. They're just out there, you know?

• 38:55Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:56Speaker 04

  Also, don't sleep on how dirty warehouse workers can be.

• 38:59Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, oh, and trust me, I worked in warehouses too. Now, as it was again, those guys were all so fucking filthy.

• 39:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, oh, yeah.

• 39:08Speaker 03

  First press I ever saw.

• 39:10Speaker 04

  I love, I love watching them. You know, honestly, that's our good, that's a good American working force.

• 39:15Marcus Parks?

  See, Henry, that's what you missed out from never doing any manual labor. Me and Ed did manual labor jobs our whole fucking lives.

• 39:21Speaker 03

  I really missed out on doing manual labor.

• 39:23Marcus Parks?

  Yeah.

• 39:24Speaker 03

  I really missed out. No, I worked in, I worked in retail where a lot of guys, a lot of weird older men and older women I met, I found out about their, their inside troubles.

• 39:35Marcus Parks?

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:36Speaker 03

  That's what I, I was the, I was the, several people confessed to me their various whims and, and secret wishes and dreams.

• 39:45Marcus Parks?

  Oh, you were the dump.

• 39:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:46Marcus Parks?

  Yeah.

• 39:46Speaker 04

  Hell, yeah.

• 39:47Speaker 03

  And it's always about sex.

• 39:51Speaker 04

  They'd be like, hey, go count all those nuts over there. You know, and I'd just have to sit in a fucking room and count screws and nuts.

• 39:59Marcus Parks?

  One. Now, as it was, again and again, the dream construction job was just a lure for Clifford's next victim. After drugging Darren and taking him out into the country, Olsen laid out a blanket and raped the teenager repeatedly next to a dirt road. Clifford then led Darren to a nearby riverbank where he once again used his hammer to smash in Darren's skull. Now, either Clifford was lying when he said he was grossed out by the blood and gore during his second murder, or he got over it with extreme speed. Because once Darren went down from the hammer blow, and this was just six days after Clifford had done this for the first time to murder Colleen, Clifford raped the teenage boy a second time.

• 40:44Marcus Parks?

  Darren, however, was not only still alive, he was still conscious and still speaking. Clifford said that Darren asked him why he was doing this over and over again, all while Clifford simultaneously raped him while he turned Darren's skull to mush with his hammer. Since Darren was presumably on his stomach, Clifford smashed the hammer into the side of the boy's head repeatedly, destroying Darren's jaws and teeth until the boy mercifully expired. But while Clifford Olson had claimed that he found the blood and gore of a hammer murder disgusting, he had found that he greatly enjoyed having sex with dead bodies. And he said so during his early confessions.

• 41:28Marcus Parks?

  He would, however, backtrack that statement when he saw that while he could still work the narcissistic magic when investigators thought that he stopped at rape and murder, necrophilia was not something he could really charm his way through.

• 41:44Speaker 03

  It's so hard to. Yeah. Yeah. It always sandbags the conversation. People get so angry. Everyone gets so uptight, talking about, be like, "Oh, so, well, oh, well, you like heated rivalry. I like fucking corpses."

• 41:59Marcus Parks?

  No, no, no one ever says like, "What a charming necrophiliac."

• 42:02Speaker 03

  Not once.

• 42:03Marcus Parks?

  No, charm and necrophilia don't often go together.

• 42:05Speaker 03

  Um, personally, I think he was lying. I think that he is doing the thing that a lot of serial killers do, which is, depending on who he's talking to, he's talking to them about the frame of mind of him and them. And sometimes, he wants to be as sick as fuck.

• 42:20Marcus Parks?

  Yeah.

• 42:20Speaker 03

  And he wants you to think he's sick as fuck. And then sometimes you want to be like, "Hey, you know, sometimes we all get out of hand." Like, he wants both. No, he changes every person he talks to.

• 42:30Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, of course. Now, instead of moving or trying to cover up Darren's corpse, Clifford instead tried making a quick getaway. But there is one detail about Clifford that we have not yet revealed, and this might be a bit of a symptom of the ADHD.

• 42:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:44Marcus Parks?

  Apparently, Clifford Olson was one of the worst drivers to ever terrorize the roads of Canada. And after taking off from Darren's murder site, Clifford almost immediately drove his car into a ditch. Clifford, he wasn't even drunk. This was just something that he did on a regular basis.

• 43:00Speaker 03

  I could just see him a lot of just like, going like, "Oh, yeah, I'll tell you something."

• 43:05Marcus Parks?

  He was alone in the car.

• 43:07Speaker 03

  Exactly. Like, "Oh, I'm gonna tell you another story." He's just like, "Eh, eh, eh, eh." He definitely lacks subtlety. And I imagine that leads to a lot of speeding and not being able to like, in your mind, register, "You shouldn't put your foot down all the way." Well, just go control the car or pay attention to the road.

• 43:24Marcus Parks?

  I would imagine he fiddles with the radio a lot.

• 43:28Marcus Parks?

  But that's just me. Well, Clifford walked to a farmhouse and paid a teenage farm boy $20 to tow his car out of the ditch with his tractor. But after being back on the road for just half a mile, Clifford ran his car into a ditch again. Since the teenager was already out with his tractor, though, he towed Clifford out for just $5 the second time around. Thankfully, the farm boy survived both encounters.

• 43:53Speaker 03

  He needed him.

• 43:54Marcus Parks?

  Yeah.

• 43:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:55Marcus Parks?

  Now, once Clifford Olson got home from the murder of Darren Johnsrood, his wife Joan accidentally caught him sneaking his blood-soaked clothes into the incinerator. He told her to mind her own business, which was all Joan needed to be told. But Joan apparently wasn't the only one who knew that something foul was happening around Clifford Olson. That night, Olsen also called his mother to unburden himself, which, according to Joan, was a common pattern. Clifford would commit a crime, then call his mother to confess and cry while she presumably told him that everything was gonna be okay. There's no such thing as a bad boy.

• 44:33Speaker 03

  Oh, that's my son. My son, well, they obviously must have done something. They must have stole his ball. They must have, I don't know what those kids did.

• 44:42Marcus Parks?

  Joan actually asked Clifford's mother years later what these tearful phone calls were all about, but Clifford's mother would never give a direct answer. She would just say one sentence. She would say, quote,

• 44:54Speaker 03

  "We can never tell."

• 44:56Marcus Parks?

  Joan, of course, took this to mean that Clifford's mother almost certainly knew that her son was a serial killer and had said nothing.

• 45:03Speaker 03

  She's just a Canadian fucking Cersei. Like, that's all she is, just like, sitting there and like, "Yes, my son did do crimes, but Canada did crimes against him. You know he had ADHD."

• 45:20Marcus Parks?

  Now, when Darren Johnsrood was reported as missing just hours after he disappeared, the authorities treated his parents with near contempt. Darren's parents said that the cops acted bored and resentful. And when Darren's father told the cop taking the report that Darren was 16 years old, the officer just stopped writing notes altogether. Cop actually closed his notebook and said, quote,

• 45:42Speaker 03

  "He's a runaway. I won't even take his name at this point."

• 45:46Marcus Parks?

  And it wasn't until Darren was missing for two full days that cops actually took the report, and they did so begrudgingly.

• 45:53Speaker 03

  I'm not gonna ruin his time following fucking cheap chick around. You guys are all ruining his life. He's out there having the time of his life. I should have been following cheap trick. It should have been me.

• 46:09Speaker 03

  I'm the dream police. I, it's me.

• 46:13Marcus Parks?

  The cops were so adamant that Darren had run away that when his corpse was actually discovered about two weeks later, the cops actually tried convincing Darren's father that the corpse of the 16-year-old boy that they found rotting by the side of the road, "That's not Darren."

• 46:28Speaker 03

  It can't be Darren. I saw him on stage. While they were doing, the kids are all right. They were on there. I saw him on stage. I couldn't believe it. I was so jealous. I couldn't tell, two guitars or one? I don't know. Where did he play in the top one? Do they sound different?

• 46:47Marcus Parks?

  It wasn't until a week went by that the body was finally ID'd using dental records, at which point the cops had to sheepishly ask Darren's dad to come in and identify the body officially.

• 47:00Speaker 03

  It's just the idea of a sheepish, did the word sheepish used to call to identify your son's body, be like,

• 47:07Speaker 06

  "Yeah, I'm sorry. Mind made a bit of a boo-boo."

• 47:12Speaker 03

  Remember when we were here a couple of weeks ago? Just playing with his feet? Just like, "Hmm."

• 47:19Marcus Parks?

  So, I gotta tell you, I'm gonna need to buy you Molson's after this one.

• 47:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, you do owe me. Yep, that's him. Now, let's go to the bar. Yep.

• 47:33Marcus Parks?

  And when the body of a 16-year-old boy was found raped and brutally murdered with a hammer by the side of an isolated dirt road, Corporal Fred Miley came as fast as he could.

• 47:42Speaker 03

  I know it's a goddamn homosexual. I knew it was a homosexual from the start. I could tell by the tire tracks.

• 47:49Marcus Parks?

  He said, "Clear-cut case of a homosexual revenge killer." Now, after discovering that Darren came from a divorced household, Corporal Miley decided that Darren was a promiscuous homosexual who'd gotten hooked on the dope, which made him, quote, "Susceptible to the apparent friendship of a homosexual pervert."

• 48:07Speaker 03

  And I should know.

• 48:09Marcus Parks?

  Why? Whoa, Corporal Miley, why should you know?

• 48:12Speaker 03

  No particular reason. But I know exactly what it takes to be the incredibly close friend of a homosexual pervert.

• 48:21Marcus Parks?

  Meanwhile, 10 days after Darren's body was found, Clifford Olson and Joan Berryman finally tied the knot at a house of worship called the People's Full Gospel Church.

• 48:34Speaker 03

  Oh, sure, I love, you know, the feeder-gainer community? It's one of the least represented Christian sects. They really are, yeah. Yeah, we're feeder-gainer Protestants in our home.

• 48:46Marcus Parks?

  It sounds like they have a fucking buffet at this church.

• 48:51Marcus Parks?

  And Clifford, of course, marked the occasion by raping a five-year-old girl the night before the wedding while he was supposed to be babysitting her. Why, anyone would let Clifford Olson babysit a five-year-old girl? We will never know.

• 49:04Speaker 03

  I wouldn't let him babysit a milkshake. Cheap Trick is in town. That was my little girl. Cheap Trick was in town. I had to go. They never come to Vancouver anymore. They're only here once a month. I gotta go. Right?

• 49:21Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, I mean, I was thinking about this and I like, and it seemed like, I was like, okay, so he, he marks occasions by celebrating by committing a sex crime, but I don't think that's it. I think it's just that like occasions did not stop him from committing sex crimes.

• 49:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:37Marcus Parks?

  I think he just did it no matter what.

• 49:38Speaker 03

  He was so prolific.

• 49:40Marcus Parks?

  Yeah.

• 49:40Speaker 03

  That it didn't even, none of it was even on the schedule.

• 49:43Speaker 04

  He seems like a guy that there's a lot more that we don't know about.

• 49:46Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 49:47Marcus Parks?

  Well, and we're gonna get to that here in a bit.

• 49:49Speaker 04

  We always say that with serial killers. It's always like one or the other. It's always like way less or way more.

• 49:55Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, and it seems like with Clifford Olson, it's way more. Now, just four days after his wedding day, Clifford Olson would commit murder yet again after picking up a 16-year-old girl named Sandra Wolfenstein from the mall in Guilford, just south of Coquitlam. Clifford Olson's hammer would end her life as well, and again, police would not take the disappearance seriously. Furthermore, kids were reporting that Clifford Olson specifically was drugging and raping them with increasing frequency, but charges were not being filed.

• 50:25Speaker 04

  You're a runaway. I'm here. I'm right here.

• 50:28Speaker 03

  Why don't you continue to be a runaway and run away, okay? You're making work here.

• 50:37Marcus Parks?

  Well, after one girl reported the crime to her parents, who then reported it to the police, the cops made a note in their report that the girl was, quote, "a little slow", implying that she was either lying, confused, or unworthy of their efforts.

• 50:53Speaker 03

  Or one of the police beat her in a footrace, challenging her, saying that if you could beat me in a footrace, I'll believe your rape allegations.

• 51:03Marcus Parks?

  Forgot how literal the Canadians can be.

• 51:05Speaker 03

  They can.

• 51:07Marcus Parks?

  Now, this might all sound like there are simply too many crimes here for this to be true. This all has to be a bunch of exaggerations, a lot of tall tales, but we actually have anecdotal evidence that Clifford Olson really was as prolific as he claimed to be, and that evidence came from you, the listener.

• 51:25Speaker 03

  Congrats.

• 51:27Marcus Parks?

  See, we usually get one or two emails during every heavy hitter series from people who either had a close call with the killer personally, or more often, we get emails from people who knew someone who had a close call. We got it with Gary Ridgeway. We got it with the Toy Box Killer. Comes, it's, it's like, you know, the spring rains always comes.

• 51:45Speaker 03

  But it, this was a lot.

• 51:48Marcus Parks?

  This time, we already, after just releasing one episode, have gotten many, many emails from people saying that their uncle, their mother, their mother-in-law, their whoever were picked up by Clifford Olson and they escaped, or they were almost picked up by Clifford Olson.

• 52:08Speaker 04

  Which one was the funniest?

• 52:09Marcus Parks?

  Um, I would say...

• 52:14Speaker 03

  They never get to, they never work on, that's the one thing I'll say is we get these really serious emails and they never try to make it funny for us.

• 52:21Marcus Parks?

  Actually, there was one that did try, actually did write it a bit like, it was a bit rompish.

• 52:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:27Marcus Parks?

  Like, it was a bit of a romp. The uncle, you know?

• 52:29Speaker 03

  Oh, of course.

• 52:30Marcus Parks?

  Or maybe it was the mother-in-law, but yeah, because, yeah, because that's the thing is that usually it is the survivors, the people who have these run-ins, they're usually tough fucking people.

• 52:39Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 52:40Marcus Parks?

  Like, they're top.

• 52:40Speaker 03

  Survivors.

• 52:41Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, the survivors, they're tough, they're smart, they see that things are about to go bad and they do something about it. Um, and, yeah, they do usually write entertaining emails. Uh, but that's the thing, I, I've never seen anything like this. Like, the scale implied by the volume of these emails is truly astonishing.

• 53:02Speaker 03

  I'll say again, my lead motif of this whole series is that Clifford Olson was a almost designed, perfect villain for Canadian society.

• 53:12Marcus Parks?

  Yeah.

• 53:14Speaker 03

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• 57:56Speaker 05

  Live from your grave.

• 57:59Marcus Parks?

  Now, because Clifford Olson was allowed to run free, he continued to alternate between raping young teenagers before letting them go and raping young teenagers before murdering them. There was, however, seemingly no deciding factor as to when he would do what or why. See, Clifford had said that he used murder as a way to avoid rape charges, but the more that I've studied Clifford Olson and his methods, it really does seem that while his first murder might have been a matter of convenience, the killings that came after were more a result of him just being in the mood for murder that day.

• 58:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, if he didn't get his eight hours.

• 58:37Speaker 03

  I know how I am.

• 58:38Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, I mean, you're really, speaking from experience, with ADHD, if you don't get enough sleep, I can be.

• 58:47Speaker 03

  Quite temperamental.

• 58:49Marcus Parks?

  I can be very difficult. Now, Olson waited a month after killing Sandra Wolfenstein, but after deciding to do it again, he took the next two victims in quick succession. In late June, Olson skipped church on a Sunday morning to find a victim.

• 59:04Speaker 03

  Geez.

• 59:05Speaker 04

  He was going to church this whole time?

• 59:07Marcus Parks?

  Yeah. No, no, he's got, yeah.

• 59:09Speaker 03

  You'd be surprised, Eddie. A lot of criminals go to church. You'd be really surprised at how many. Some of them even lead the congregation.

• 59:18Marcus Parks?

  Yeah.

• 59:18Speaker 04

  I knew I fucking hated that place.

• 59:22Speaker 03

  It's almost like where you go to get forgiven for a bunch of stuff.

• 59:24Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, yeah. It's, it's almost as if like building an entire religion around, like just going somewhere and saying, you're forgiven for anything that you do and your guilt is gone. It's a really bad idea.

• 59:33Speaker 04

  Yeah. Just ask the Protestants.

• 59:35Marcus Parks?

  Yeah. Well, before the day was done, 13-year-old Ada Court was dead by Clifford Olson's hammer. This time, he drove his victim out to an abandoned mine shaft and killed her after he once again got his car stuck, this time in gravel. Once Ada Court's body was hidden, Olson paid some nearby campers to tow out his car this time. Ada was reported missing right away, but despite the fact that more and more disappearances were being reported, and despite the fact that the corpses of two teenagers had already been found, there was no wide search for Ada Court. She did not meet the requirements for a wide search. So, after yet again feeling no heat, Olson started getting even more reckless

• 1:00:17Marcus Parks?

  and even more impulsive than usual. About a week after Ada Court's murder, Olson was on his lunch break from an actual construction job for once.

• 1:00:25Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 1:00:25Marcus Parks?

  When he saw a nine-year-old boy riding his bike. Olson had targeted this victim because he thought that this boy, Simon Partington, was a nine-year-old girl because of his shoulder-length blonde hair. But with Clifford Olson, once that murderous machinery started moving, it was impossible to get it to stop.

• 1:00:44Speaker 04

  It was like those three times accidentally masturbated.

• 1:00:46Marcus Parks?

  To Hanson.

• 1:00:49Speaker 04

  Was it each individual Hanson?

• 1:00:51Marcus Parks?

  Yes.

• 1:00:59Speaker 04

  The older sister though.

• 1:01:03Speaker 04

  I was a child.

• 1:01:04Marcus Parks?

  Yes. Yeah, this didn't happen in your twenties.

• 1:01:08Speaker 04

  I mean, now you can masturbate them all you want. They're full grown men.

• 1:01:11Speaker 03

  I masturbate to Chris Hanson.

• 1:01:14Speaker 04

  Have a seat.

• 1:01:16Marcus Parks?

  Now, even though Simon Partington was just nine years old, he was one of the few victims to actually refuse Olson's initial offer of a cold beer. Cause according to Clifford.

• 1:01:25Speaker 03

  He's trying to quit.

• 1:01:27Marcus Parks?

  No, Simon said nine year olds shouldn't drink beer. But Olson insisted and manipulated Simon into taking one and events took a predictable turn from there.

• 1:01:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, more of a brown liquor little boy.

• 1:01:41Marcus Parks?

  But while Olson had decided on a whim to abduct and kill this nine year old boy, he was also starting to experiment. Once Olson got Simon out to a secluded spot and raped him, Olson strangled the boy with his belt, bracing his feet on the boy's back while pulling the belt taut around his throat. Olson then took out his four inch buck knife and stabbed the boy in the chest and then raped the corpse. After dragging the body off into some nearby bushes, Clifford Olson disposed of the boy's clothes and his murder weapon. He then drove back to Coquitlam, picked up some hamburgers and went back to his bathroom remodeling job as if nothing had happened.

• 1:02:22Speaker 03

  Man, they, how long are breaks in Canada?

• 1:02:27Marcus Parks?

  You know what? It's really, it's a part of the whole thing. It really plays in all of it.

• 1:02:33Speaker 03

  When are we getting this bathroom done? I don't care.

• 1:02:38Speaker 03

  It doesn't matter. Although I think I told the story.

• 1:02:41Marcus Parks?

  Coffee cups for days now.

• 1:02:44Speaker 03

  Story once when I was working on Heroes Reborn and we came back and we were already like a month over and the budget was like shooting through the roof. And obviously we weren't going to be picked back up for a second season and we came back and the entire crew was just watching baseball when we came back from lunch and they just wouldn't stop. And they were literally like, no, we're just trying to finish the game. And we're all like, get us the living fuck out of here. Again, I love the energy. I do love the, I understand, I understand. We work too hard.

• 1:03:14Marcus Parks?

  I really think it was the CGI. It was the bad CGI.

• 1:03:16Speaker 03

  It was bad. That's what killed the whole fucking thing.

• 1:03:18Marcus Parks?

  That's what killed Heroes Reborn.

• 1:03:19Speaker 03

  No, we had a hot sandwich and the whole fucking show.

• 1:03:22Speaker 04

  I know. I know.

• 1:03:26Marcus Parks?

  Since Simon Partington was so young and since he didn't come from a so-called broken home, his family were actually middle-class immigrants from England. He couldn't be written off as a runaway or branded as a sex worker as some of the others had been.

• 1:03:44Marcus Parks?

  So the RCMP had no choice but to take his disappearance seriously. And within hours of Simon's disappearance, a search party of a hundred people had formed to find the missing boy. But now that a middle-class white kid from a stable home had gone missing, the media finally caught up to the story of missing kids in British Columbia. The story really got legs when people started calling reporters to tell them that the disappearance of Simon Partington was just the tip of a big dirty iceberg that had been floating around the greater Vancouver area for nearly a year. This, it seems, is what finally shook the RCMP out of their stupor.

• 1:04:25Marcus Parks?

  See, as it sometimes happens in Canadian true crime stories, there was one cop amongst a sea of working for the weekend investigators who tried shaking the other RCMP officers out of their mid-afternoon naps so they could actually investigate these crimes. In this case, the dedicated officer's name was Corporal Les Forsyth. Where other officers had called runaway on the disappearance of 13-year-old Ada Court, that's the girl Olson had killed while skipping church. Corporal Forsyth was a young officer who'd actually investigated the report. He discovered quite easily, I might add, that Ada Court did not fit the runaway profile.

• 1:05:06Speaker 03

  Probably had asked like a question. Yeah. Ask, uh, what was she like?

• 1:05:11Marcus Parks?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:12Speaker 03

  Does she even listen to Del Shannon?

• 1:05:16Marcus Parks?

  I don't understand. What is that?

• 1:05:24Speaker 03

  Wow, Eddie. I love, Jesus Christ.

• 1:05:27Speaker 04

  I like oldies.

• 1:05:28Speaker 03

  I do too. I do too.

• 1:05:31Speaker 04

  It was for you, not for him.

• 1:05:32Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, thank you.

• 1:05:33Speaker 03

  I just didn't know that name.

• 1:05:33Marcus Parks?

  You ever heard the Shannon and the Clams cover? It's incredible.

• 1:05:36Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:05:36Marcus Parks?

  It's very, very good.

• 1:05:37Speaker 04

  I love Shannon and the Clams.

• 1:05:38Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, the great cover runaway. Well, now that Forsyth had a clue, I mean, I'd like to put a little bit of happiness into all of this.

• 1:05:48Marcus Parks?

  Well, now that Forsyth had a clue, he decided to investigate all the people who lived in Ada's area who had sexual assault charges. Forsyth therefore became the first cop to come across the name Clifford Olson in relation to these murders. And Forsyth very quickly got a hunch that Olson was his man.

• 1:06:08Speaker 03

  Oh, the guy that spent most of his life in and out of jail for sexual assault of minors?

• 1:06:12Marcus Parks?

  Well, he had, no.

• 1:06:13Speaker 03

  Never from that.

• 1:06:15Marcus Parks?

  He had been in and out of jail many, many times, but no, had never, ever been actually charged.

• 1:06:20Speaker 03

  But he looked so innocent. Oh, you know, you'd expect him to be able to safely guide a little girl through the post-apocalyptic world of mushroom-based zombies. But actually, he's doing it to her. Let me ask you, how new does his hammer look?

• 1:06:39Speaker 04

  It's all covered in pomegranate juice.

• 1:06:43Marcus Parks?

  Forsyth noticed that while Olson had been charged with sexual assault multiple times, he had never been convicted. Nor had he ever even stood trial for any of the allegations. Forsyth's hunch was only strengthened when he discovered that Clifford Olson had been questioned for attempting to rape a 16-year-old girl the day after Simon Partington's disappearance. Forsyth then noticed that Ada Court was last seen in the same area where Clifford Olson lived. Which then led Forsyth to notice, hey, there's a whole bunch of missing or murdered kids popping up around this guy who is constantly accused of sexually assaulting kids, but always gets out of it.

• 1:07:24Speaker 03

  But he always gets out of it. See, that's the difference there, Forsyth. He always gets out of it. That's what we like about him.

• 1:07:31Marcus Parks?

  So after Forsyth deemed Clifford Olson to be one of the greediest hoseheads in Vancouver.

• 1:07:37Speaker 03

  And that is a slur. You just said a Canadian slur.

• 1:07:41Speaker 04

  No, we'll have to bleep this in Canadian Instagram.

• 1:07:45Marcus Parks?

  He recommended that Clifford be regarded as the prime suspect in both the missing kids cases and in the murder cases for the two bodies already found. But Forsyth was a young investigator and just like the cops had done to the guy who broke the Robert Pickton case, veteran investigators wrote Forsyth off as a young enthusiast. He didn't know you weren't supposed to give a shit about runaways. This is just like the Pickton case where cops weren't supposed to give a shit about sex workers. But that makes the Pickton case even more infuriating. Because while these two fucking serial killers were decades apart, both of these cases happened in the same fucking city.

• 1:08:25Speaker 03

  It's not that far apart. And the amount, and the type of crime is so fucking similar. And that is just the truth is that they get, they don't get a pass for me necessarily, but I do, I can understand the context here amongst the Clifford Olson case and the problems with the investigation. But the fact that then Robert Pickton just did it all again.

• 1:08:45Marcus Parks?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:45Speaker 03

  Is very interesting. In the same part of the very small part of the world.

• 1:08:49Marcus Parks?

  Well, I mean, it was, it really like Pickton, I mean, it's.

• 1:08:53Speaker 03

  Was Coquitlam, right?

• 1:08:54Marcus Parks?

  Pickton lived in Coquitlam, but he was picking up all of his victims from East Hastings in Vancouver.

• 1:09:00Speaker 03

  I understand. I'm just saying the idea of like, by then it should not have been, the idea of a serial killer should not have been off the table.

• 1:09:06Marcus Parks?

  Absolutely not. No. But then there was also with Pickton, the, the question as to whether, um, people were, let's say, they didn't mind that somebody was taking sex workers off of the streets.

• 1:09:18Speaker 03

  Oh, no, they specifically said he was cleaning up East Hastings.

• 1:09:21Marcus Parks?

  Yeah. Well, there was one veteran investigator who had faith in Forsyth's hunch about Clifford Olson. Corporal Fred Miley, head of the Serious Crimes Unit, had finally seen that maybe the homosexual pervert angle was narrowing his scope a bit too much.

• 1:09:40Speaker 03

  This is a bit more serious than just.

• 1:09:42Speaker 04

  Homosexual perverts. We'll get back to that next fall. Yeah, we all like it. We all like those crimes.

• 1:09:50Marcus Parks?

  So he threw his support behind Corporal Forsy's theory and appointed two officers to look into Clifford Olson. Most cops, however, considered Clifford Olson to be an impossible suspect. From their perspective, Clifford Olson was just a middle-aged guy with a new kid and a new wife. And middle-aged newlyweds, they don't just start kidnapping and killing kids out of nowhere.

• 1:10:12Speaker 04

  So what if he's raped a bunch? Yeah, but that's different, okay? We all love to. We all wish we could. All right, Clifford Olson just has the balls to do it, okay?

• 1:10:24Marcus Parks?

  That's the thing. The cops only believed this because they didn't look at the full picture. There was plenty of evidence that Clifford had been working up to this for years. I mean, for fuck's sake, he'd raped a guy just before his parole hearing in prison. But the higher-ups refused to put any surveillance on Clifford Olson.

• 1:10:41Speaker 03

  We don't wanna ruin his day. We don't wanna, you don't wanna muck up his schedule.

• 1:10:46Marcus Parks?

  It's more like, I don't feel like doing that. Like, I don't wanna, I don't wanna, it's not worth it. It's not worth it. To them, Clifford Olson was a low-profile, if erratic nuisance. Which tells you how effective Clifford's narcissistic facade really was. Clifford's webs of manipulation worked on people who had never even met him. Because if you'll remember, nuisance was the same word used by prison officials to describe Olson 20 years earlier.

• 1:11:17Speaker 03

  He gives me so many shades of John Wayne Gacy.

• 1:11:20Marcus Parks?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:20Speaker 03

  Because John Wayne Gacy was also, you remember, like, you know, when they put the tail on him? He was ingratiating himself to the officers and he would go out of his way to talk to the police. And they all were just like, this fat fuck didn't do anything. Like, it's like the first thought. It's like, this fucking fuck this guy. Yeah, he's probably lighting the loafers. But he probably didn't do anything. Like, that's kind of the gaze of it. Because no one believes some chubby, sweet man would ever do a series of undiscoverable crimes.

• 1:11:45Speaker 04

  You know, I just figured out what he looks like. Do you remember those, like, children's books with the little critter?

• 1:11:50Marcus Parks?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:11:51Speaker 04

  The little...

• 1:11:51Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:52Marcus Parks?

  Little Critter.

• 1:11:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:11:53Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, oh my god, he does look like Little Critter.

• 1:11:56Speaker 03

  That's what I'm saying. He's not Pedro Pascal.

• 1:12:00Marcus Parks?

  Oh, he looks just like Little Critter. Holy shit, I can't, now I cannot see it.

• 1:12:04Speaker 03

  That's cute. Now he's cute.

• 1:12:08Marcus Parks?

  I mean, again, it brings me back to OJ Simpson. You know, like, the narcissistic charm that these guys had. Because there were so many people that would say, like, Rob Kardashian, for example. Like, Rob Kardashian was with OJ Simpson all the way through the trial until the DNA. And when the DNA came and he was faced with, like, irrefutable evidence, like, oh, oh no. I can't explain this away anymore. I can't, like, that's when he dropped him. And that's the same thing with Clifford Olson. It's like, that narcissistic charm just pulls people in. And it works on people that he never even fucking met. It works all over, man.

• 1:12:48Marcus Parks?

  Now, because investigators dragged their feet, Clifford Olson's bloodlust was becoming uncontrollable. According to his wife Joan, his personality changed completely in early July 1981. By that summer, Clifford had taken six victims and still had five more to go. According to Joan, when Clifford's rage turned on, the muscle tone in his face hardened. His gestures changed, the cadence of his speech altered, and even the structure of his sentences were different than normal. When Clifford got into this state, the violence was so bad that Joan said that she had to just disassociate to get through it. But as always, Olson would be back to his charming self the next day.

• 1:13:31Marcus Parks?

  Insisting that the person Joan had been subjected to the night before, that's not really Clifford. That's someone else inside of Clifford who had taken control.

• 1:13:40Speaker 03

  Just understand, if anybody ever says something like that to you, that's who a person is.

• 1:13:45Marcus Parks?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:13:46Speaker 03

  The guy on the inside.

• 1:13:47Marcus Parks?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:49Speaker 03

  That's who a human is, is that guy that's inside of the person you see.

• 1:13:53Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, the man inside me, yeah.

• 1:13:54Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:13:55Marcus Parks?

  Now, it's around this time that Olson picked up a partner in crime, a 19-year-old named Randy.

• 1:14:00Speaker 03

  Oh, bad name.

• 1:14:01Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, but a very Canadian one. Randy was sort of a drifter in training. So when Clifford suggested that they do a little theft, a little burglary, maybe we could haunt some young girls while we're at it.

• 1:14:13Speaker 04

  What? Oh, you what? Sounds like a job for Randy, yeah. Oh, Randy Canadian for horny Randy.

• 1:14:23Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, Randy readily agreed. And so Clifford and Randy found a 14-year-old girl named Judy Cosma. But before getting to the business of murder, I suppose Clifford decided that Randy was not quite ready to go all the way. So Olson dropped Randy off at the mall after picking up Judy. And then Clifford took Judy to the same abandoned mine where he'd murdered Ada Court. Randy, of course, will come back into our story later on. Not the last we'll see of Randy.

• 1:14:49Speaker 03

  How long did they leave him at the mall?

• 1:14:51Speaker 04

  It was about four days. I went there four days, you know, I loved being at the Brookstone. I went down to the, um, I went to Macy's, Jessie's.

• 1:15:01Marcus Parks?

  Great thing is, you know, you can sleep overnight in a Dillard's.

• 1:15:04Speaker 03

  They don't know.

• 1:15:05Marcus Parks?

  They don't know at all.

• 1:15:06Speaker 03

  I went inside a suit. I rolled up inside a suit, they don't know, they don't look for you in there.

• 1:15:12Marcus Parks?

  Now, this had not been Judy Cosma's first run-in with Clifford Olson. Two weeks earlier, he'd given her the routine about paying her $10 an hour to wash windows. But Judy was busy that day, so she asked him if she could call him about it later. Instead of giving her his info, he asked for her phone number, telling her, no, no, no. I'll call your parents and I'll ask them if it's okay. Judy, however, did not have a phone. So Clifford asked for her name and told her that he would meet her in the same spot the next day. Now, in reality, Clifford just wanted to end this interaction. He had no intention of coming back. But Judy still wrote her name down in Clifford's notebook. Clifford forgot all about her writing her name down.

• 1:15:57Marcus Parks?

  But Judy writing her name in that notebook, that would be the first tangible link between Olson and a victim. But the cops would have to actually investigate Clifford before that link could be made.

• 1:16:11Speaker 03

  I don't wanna look in there. It's his private book.

• 1:16:13Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:16:14Speaker 03

  It's private.

• 1:16:15Speaker 04

  Hey, shit, it's locked. Who's got the tiny key? Ah, I don't, ah, there's nothing to do. Ah, god, ah, this is, ah, god, why? God, why do you do this to the police?

• 1:16:27Marcus Parks?

  See, my biggest problem is that it says, "Do not read" on the cover. And it says that, and it's in big letters, and those letters look serious.

• 1:16:34Speaker 03

  And that is, opening this up, it might clarify itself as a serious crime.

• 1:16:41Marcus Parks?

  Now, when Clifford ran across Judy again a couple of weeks later, Judy was excited that she hadn't missed the opportunity that Clifford had promised. But quite unfortunately for Judy, Clifford Olson would reach greater heights of brutality with her than with any victim before. See, Clifford later claimed that he switched up his murder methods to throw cops off his trail. But it seems more likely that Clifford was just enjoying the exploration of what murder could offer him in the realm of gratification. It's almost like a 120 Days of Sodom type thing. Just, let's just see how far we can take it. After taking Judy out to the abandoned mineshaft and drugging her, Judy got sick from too many pills and too much beer. So Clifford pulled her into the backseat.

• 1:17:25Marcus Parks?

  While she was barely conscious, Clifford positioned his buck knife at the temple of her head with one hand, then grabbed the hammer with the other. But just as he was about to drive the knife into her skull, Judy managed to quietly say that she was scared. So instead, Clifford beat her until she fell unconscious. He then raped her and dragged her out of the car. After throwing her down an embankment, hoping that the fall would kill her, he went down to find that she was still breathing. So to finish the act, Clifford stabbed her in the throat. And in an attempt to make this murder look different from the others, or at least that's what he claimed, Olson stabbed her 19 more times in a frenzied haze.

• 1:18:09Marcus Parks?

  He then tossed branches over the corpse and drove away, having now taken seven victims.

• 1:18:16Speaker 04

  Jesus fucking Christ, man. I was like, how do we know all this? Like, that's crazy to me.

• 1:18:21Marcus Parks?

  It's, well, the thing is about Clifford Olson is that he talked, and a lot of times, you know, sometimes with serial killers, when they talk, it's the whole, the last living witness, that's what they call it. But the forensics match.

• 1:18:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:18:35Marcus Parks?

  You know, and the forensics match and the amount of people who survived encounters with him is, it's incalculable. It's huge, so...

• 1:18:44Speaker 03

  It's like hundreds of people.

• 1:18:45Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, so they can match what he said with reports.

• 1:18:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, what sounds like, yeah, it sounds familiar. And also, as we'll get into, the idea of the bodies for cash thing. That was like where he, quote-unquote, had an incentive, and so he told them everything. He told them the whole story and he did all, very dramatically.

• 1:19:04Speaker 04

  I'm just surprised no one ever, like, fucked them up.

• 1:19:07Marcus Parks?

  Well, I mean, he was kept in protective custody almost constantly.

• 1:19:10Speaker 04

  I'm just talking about, like, in here, he's going around town fucking kids.

• 1:19:14Marcus Parks?

  Oh, no, he did. He got beat up all the fucking time. Like, we talked about, I mentioned it last episode, it happened like in succession. Like, he, you know, he got beat up constantly, but he just took it. He was like, okay.

• 1:19:25Speaker 03

  He had no reaction to it.

• 1:19:26Marcus Parks?

  It was sort of the, he almost treated it as like the price of doing business. You know, like, sometimes you get beat up, it's fine. Now, Olson said that he recognized at this point that his urge to kill was absolutely uncontrollable. He was murdering teenagers and children at a pretty fast clip. So to calm himself down and let the heat die down a bit, he decided it was time to take a trip down to California. And he made this decision immediately after murdering Judy Cosma. After he drove away from Judy's corpse, Clifford stopped at a place called the Sasquatch Inn and called his wife. He told Joan, "Guess what? We're going to Disneyland tomorrow in the morning. Get the baby ready, get packed."

• 1:20:11Marcus Parks?

  And Joan said that Olson sounded jovial, very relaxed. So, I mean, it's not like she had a choice, but she said, "Sure, okay, let's do it." But for Joan, the far stranger occurrence that night was what Clifford did when he returned home. Joan said that once Clifford got back to their house, he took a bath with his hammer.

• 1:20:30Speaker 04

  It wants to relax. And I heard the hammer's back is tight.

• 1:20:37Marcus Parks?

  Joan said that Clifford sat in the bathtub and scrubbed his hammer with a brush. And it's a brush usually used to clean fingernails. When she asked why he was scrubbing his hammer, Clifford said that he'd borrowed the hammer from his dad and he wanted to give it back to him clean in the morning before they all went down south for their California vacation.

• 1:20:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, she showed up asking him why the door was open, and then it was like, why are you cleaning the hammer?

• 1:21:02Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, exactly. Why are you splishing and splashing everywhere? Why are you doing, why are you kicking all these suds everywhere?

• 1:21:09Speaker 03

  And then she looks, she's like, why are you bathing the hammer? And then he's just like, oh, you know, clean hammers.

• 1:21:15Speaker 04

  You know, he is way more of a hammer maniac.

• 1:21:18Speaker 03

  Yeah. Any of him going.

• 1:21:22Marcus Parks?

  Little hammer, you're the one. Together we have so much fun.

• 1:21:29Speaker 03

  Hammer in the water, hammer out of the water. I made it, it's got a little suds beard.

• 1:21:34Marcus Parks?

  Come here, duck.

• 1:21:37Marcus Parks?

  See what your insides look like. As it turned out, leaving town was a smart decision on Clifford's part. Judy Cosmo was reported missing immediately. So Corporal Miley decided to follow Corporal Forsyth's hunch that Clifford Olson was their man. Clifford, however, had already left for his Disneyland vacation before Miley could question him.

• 1:21:57Speaker 03

  Oh, he's on vacation. Can't bother him now. I don't want to interrupt him. Disneyland is such a magical place.

• 1:22:04Speaker 04

  Did you listen to his answering machine? He said, don't bother me, I'll be back in two weeks.

• 1:22:11Marcus Parks?

  But Miley did manage to talk to one of Joan's friends who knew Clifford quite well. This friend told Corporal Miley that Clifford was an exhausting person.

• 1:22:20Speaker 03

  He is just the living end. I am just Clifford.

• 1:22:24Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, but it's not exhausting in the way you or I would describe someone as exhausting.

• 1:22:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's just, oh, he's just a funny guy.

• 1:22:31Marcus Parks?

  Well, Joan's friend said that Clifford was exhausting because he constantly tried having sex with her. And he was, quote, constantly fondling babies.

• 1:22:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, just always doing it.

• 1:22:42Marcus Parks?

  And this friend said that the fondling had included her own children.

• 1:22:45Speaker 03

  Always playing with their little penises and vaginas. And I'm just like, hey, stop doing that.

• 1:22:52Speaker 04

  Can we take a break?

• 1:22:53Speaker 03

  You're annoying me.

• 1:22:55Marcus Parks?

  You know how.

• 1:22:56Speaker 03

  Every time you touch another baby's penis, you're really, you're setting me off. You're not even washing your hands.

• 1:23:05Marcus Parks?

  It's just a constant shoe fly. Shoe fly.

• 1:23:08Speaker 03

  Shoe fly, get off of that. Get off of that baby's vagina.

• 1:23:10Marcus Parks?

  So, yeah, when the cops refuse to put away sex pests and you're left to deal with it all on your own, I guess exhausting is one way to put it.

• 1:23:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:23:17Marcus Parks?

  Now predictably, the trip down to Disneyland was not a pleasant one.

• 1:23:21Speaker 03

  Traffic. It's so hard. The prices, the snacks.

• 1:23:25Marcus Parks?

  I ten.

• 1:23:25Speaker 03

  Waiting for Mickey.

• 1:23:26Marcus Parks?

  There's long stretches of I-10 that are real boring. Well, Olson would later deny committing any crimes on this trip. But it was quite obvious that his psychopathy was starting to leak into his family life more and more. And this was becoming more obvious as Clifford, Joan, and their infant son made their way down to the happiest place on earth. Now, instead of staying at motels on the drive from Vancouver to Anaheim, Olson would take his family deep into the woods to, I suppose, sleep on the ground. Maybe they pitched a tent every once in a while. Once they slept on the floor of a small church, who I suppose gave Clifford permission to stay there for the night.

• 1:24:04Speaker 03

  Stop sleeping in. I'm sleep, we're on our way to Disneyland.

• 1:24:09Marcus Parks?

  Oh, yes, you will need sleep then, my son. But eventually Clifford and Joan got into an argument over money, which is when the whole trip took a far darker turn.

• 1:24:18Speaker 03

  Every single Disney trip goes like this. By the way, just so you know, it's always like this.

• 1:24:26Marcus Parks?

  See, Olson had borrowed $8,000 Canadian from Joan's father, and Joan had saved up half of the debt in anticipation of repaying it. Olson, however, wanted her to withdraw the $4,000 she'd saved and give it to Clifford on this trip, saying they can pay her father back another time. Now Joan refused to withdraw the money, but as it often goes with people like Clifford Olson, he was no longer interested in using his narcissistic charm to get his way when it came to dealing with his wife. That takes patience, and Clifford was all out. But direct violence also didn't seem to do much when it came to manipulating Joan anymore. So during this argument about withdrawing the cash, Clifford turned his violent attentions towards their newborn son.

• 1:25:11Marcus Parks?

  In other words, Clifford had found that there was no line he would not cross to get what he wanted. One night after Olson finally agreed to let them all stay in a motel, Joan left to buy some painkillers. She returned, however, to find their infant son screaming while Clifford watched TV as if nothing was wrong. Joan walked over to their son and found that the infant was covered in blood from a shallow knife wound under the left side of his chest. When Joan demanded to know what Olson had done, he just stared at her and made his own demand. Withdraw the $4,000. Again, she said no, and it seemed like things might have calmed down, but Clifford wasn't done.

• 1:25:52Marcus Parks?

  After Joan thought it was all over, Clifford took the baby out to the motel pool and called for Joan to come outside. And when she did, Olson plunged his own infant son into the pool and held him underwater. Joan screamed, which got the attention of a motel employee, so Olson brought his son back out. But at that moment, as his infant son screamed and cried in his arms, Olson stared at his wife and calmly said, wire for the money, Joan. This time, Joan did what she was told. And this was all before they even got to Anaheim.

• 1:26:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're gonna hate the line to Space Mountain.

• 1:26:38Marcus Parks?

  Worked it though. It's totally worth it. It's not quite as magical as it was when you were a kid, but it's still pretty cool.

• 1:26:44Speaker 04

  I will say she held her guns pretty strong.

• 1:26:47Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, she did, yeah. She really did. Now eventually the Olsons did make it to Anaheim.

• 1:26:52Speaker 03

  Great.

• 1:26:52Marcus Parks?

  But when you're driving south from LA, Knott's Berry Farm comes before Disneyland. So they stopped there first and spent the day at Knott's.

• 1:27:02Speaker 03

  Great chicken. The chicken's unbelievable. They got the, I love, they got one of the fastest wooden coasters in the entire country. Oh, yeah. And the mine is great. It is.

• 1:27:10Marcus Parks?

  No, I love a good wooden coaster. I still haven't been to Knott's Berry Farm.

• 1:27:13Speaker 03

  It's great.

• 1:27:13Marcus Parks?

  I mean, I grew up, I grew up riding the Texas Giants, so I have pretty high standards when it comes to wooden coasters.

• 1:27:18Speaker 03

  Dude, you will, you will love the gravedigger, and it's the Olsons' favorite. So you'll love it, and the stampede. Yep.

• 1:27:26Marcus Parks?

  Well, after the day at Knott's Berry Farm was done, Olson uncharacteristically volunteered to go out and buy some formula for the baby. Joan said that Clifford came back three hours later, exhausted, and the buck knife he always carried with him was missing.

• 1:27:42Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, he was trying to chase these pomegranates down the road. Foam in the ditch, it's just so hard to hold all these slippery little pomegranates.

• 1:27:52Marcus Parks?

  You know, they grow wild here in Southern California. The trees are everywhere. Now, since Olson always disposed of his murder weapons, it can be assumed that Clifford might have killed someone that night in Southern California. To bolster that theory, Clifford woke up the next day and told Joan, well, we're going home. And Joan, of course, pointed out they hadn't been to Disneyland yet. It's right there. They'd come all this way. It's right there. But Clifford said, quote.

• 1:28:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, but we've been to Knott's Berry Farm, so it's the same thing.

• 1:28:24Marcus Parks?

  And so they went home.

• 1:28:25Speaker 03

  It's not the same thing.

• 1:28:29Speaker 03

  That is incorrect. I'm gonna say it's one of the biggest crimes he's done. It's in fact, they went for, 80s Disneyland was special. I wish we all could have went.

• 1:28:39Marcus Parks?

  I went in, um, 94.

• 1:28:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:43Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, that was pretty good.

• 1:28:44Speaker 03

  That was a good time.

• 1:28:45Marcus Parks?

  It was.

• 1:28:46Speaker 03

  Almost made you forget about killing a bunch of people.

• 1:28:49Speaker 04

  I would love like an art, an art exhibit that's just like serial killers at Disneyland.

• 1:28:55Speaker 03

  Oh, just them like. Yeah, demonstrator on the people mover, just like Sirius Matt, you know, like Charles Manson on the carousel.

• 1:29:04Marcus Parks?

  Well, you know, like Richard Ramirez famously said when, um, he was sentenced to death, he said, big deal comes to the territory. See you in Disneyland.

• 1:29:11Speaker 03

  Funny guy. Whoa, he's fucking, he was so edgy. He was so edgy.

• 1:29:17Marcus Parks?

  Well, later, when cops asked Clifford why they all went back to Canada so suddenly, Clifford said it was because he, quote, suddenly had a great yearning to return.

• 1:29:27Speaker 03

  I needed the Yukon. I needed to see the seals, smell the oil.

• 1:29:34Marcus Parks?

  I had to go to the nude beaches of Vancouver.

• 1:29:37Speaker 03

  Oh, I love it. Putting the coos in Vancouver.

• 1:29:42Marcus Parks?

  He said he could not delay the call of this yearning for even a single day.

• 1:29:47Speaker 03

  My Canadian blood yearns for the north.

• 1:29:51Speaker 03

  I yearn for the north.

• 1:29:55Marcus Parks?

  However, just like the trip to Hawaii, even though there's evidence that something happened, no murders around Knott's Berry Farm have ever been definitively linked to Clifford Olson and his ill-fated trip to SoCal. But while Clifford's terrifying family road trip to California prevented the cops from speaking to him directly at that point, it did nothing to abate his ever-growing urge to commit murder most foul. Clifford still had four murders to go, and since the story of Clifford's capture and the bodies for cash scheme and all that shit, since they're all fascinating stories all on their own, I did not want to just push all of that shit into the very end of the episode, so we're making this shit a four-part.

• 1:30:38Speaker 04

  Alright.

• 1:30:39Marcus Parks?

  Well, I love this shit. You know, I love, I miss true crime. I love true crime. Oh, yeah. So come back next week for the conclusion to our series on Clifford Olson, AKA The Beast of British Columbia.

• 1:30:50Speaker 04

  Beast, beast.

• 1:30:52Speaker 03

  You get one more of this. One more week of this voice. Alright, I'm sorry, Canada. You have to understand, you have it better, okay? So just take your toys and play with them, alright? I know you're like, oh, aggression coming from America. Guess what? It's not us.

• 1:31:09Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, and also, it's not aggression, it's words on a podcast. You want aggression, I'll fucking, I'll fucking show you aggression.

• 1:31:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, buddy, yeah, Marcus.

• 1:31:16Speaker 03

  I'll fucking show you aggression. I yearn for the north.

• 1:31:20Marcus Parks?

  I'm not a violent man.

• 1:31:21Speaker 03

  No, no, but they are. They like to fight.

• 1:31:23Marcus Parks?

  They do. Yeah, they do.

• 1:31:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, for many times I went to, the old times I went to Squirrely's in Toronto, they do like to fight.

• 1:31:30Speaker 04

  Having a go.

• 1:31:31Marcus Parks?

  Having a go. But, yeah, I do, I actually do miss Canada. Canada's really nice.

• 1:31:36Speaker 03

  Shout out to Squirrely's, though. It was my favorite bar I went to all the time. It's my favorite dive bar in Toronto.

• 1:31:40Speaker 04

  Oh, really?

• 1:31:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:41Speaker 04

  Oh, shout out Squirrely's.

• 1:31:42Speaker 03

  Love Squirrely's.

• 1:31:43Marcus Parks?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:31:44Speaker 03

  Tell me how it is.

• 1:31:46Speaker 04

  I don't like going anywhere.

• 1:31:47Speaker 03

  I know, you don't. Go to pitch your netcom slash podcast unless you listen to us ad-free. You can also give us money to see us last stream on the live live every Tuesday, 5:00 PM PST.

• 1:31:57Marcus Parks?

  And you can watch us if you want to watch the podcast. You can watch us on Netflix.

• 1:32:02Speaker 03

  And movie stories. You can see the video for that.

• 1:32:05Marcus Parks?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:32:06Speaker 03

  Exclusively on Patreon, and I guess over on the Sirius XM Plus thing, but I forgot what it's called.

• 1:32:11Marcus Parks?

  I think it's called Sirius, it's the Sirius XM Plus app.

• 1:32:15Speaker 03

  Great.

• 1:32:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have fun over there.

• 1:32:21Speaker 04

  Tonight, Henry and I are at the Warsaw and eating pierogies on stage. I'm challenging you to a pierogi eating contest right now.

• 1:32:29Speaker 03

  Are we doing it?

• 1:32:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, fuck it.

• 1:32:33Marcus Parks?

  Where are you getting the pierogi? Are you going Christina's or you going Coxma?

• 1:32:36Speaker 04

  They have them right at the Warsaw.

• 1:32:37Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:32:38Speaker 04

  The old ladies in the back with the sandwiches, the kebab sandwiches and the pierogies.

• 1:32:43Speaker 03

  I totally forgot that they sell the pierogies in the venue.

• 1:32:46Speaker 04

  It's unbelievable.

• 1:32:46Marcus Parks?

  Now, Marcus is gonna be in the building. I don't know if he's gonna come on stage. I'll be hanging out, you know, I guess, you know, I used to, I lived in Greenpoint for five years. I miss Greenpoint. I miss New York. Can't wait to come back for New York Comic-Con.

• 1:32:56Speaker 04

  That's right. We're gonna be at Comic-Con on Thursday.

• 1:32:59Speaker 03

  Yesterday.

• 1:32:59Speaker 04

  And Saturday. Yes, yesterday and tomorrow for the signing.

• 1:33:03Marcus Parks?

  Yep.

• 1:33:03Speaker 04

  And then on October 11th, Hartford, Connecticut, Henry and I are gonna be at the Webster. Come check us out there. October 24th, Redway, California, Mattel Community Center for our annual Humboldt Costume Party. That's gonna be fun. We're bringing Holden McNeely with us this time. I'm sorry. November 14th.

• 1:33:20Speaker 03

  They deserve this.

• 1:33:22Speaker 04

  November 14th, Portland, Maine at the Aura. That's sold out. November 15th, Burlington, Vermont, Higher Ground Ballroom. December 11th, Iowa City, Iowa. December 12th, Columbia, Missouri at the Blue Note. We're having a lot of fun on the road. We're getting this fucking shit cooking, baby. And then don't forget, next week, on Wednesday out here in LA, I got Slammers Comedy Bash. I'm hosting a whole bunch of fun with Keith Carey and Leah Bonnema, and then Amber's gonna do a big closing set. So it's gonna be a lot of fun.

• 1:33:50Speaker 03

  Great.

• 1:33:50Speaker 04

  So come hang out with us. Go to, if you want to see where I'm coming, go to eddytunes.com. You know that shit, though.

• 1:33:55Marcus Parks?

  Fuck, yeah.

• 1:33:56Speaker 04

  Go get it.

• 1:33:57Marcus Parks?

  And don't forget No Dogs in Space, still going strong. Fucking, thank you so much, everybody, for all the, you know, amazing comments that we've gotten on the first couple of episodes of the New York Dolls series.

• 1:34:05Speaker 04

  So good.

• 1:34:06Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, we're taking, we're taking this shit to the fucking, to maximum.

• 1:34:09Speaker 04

  Dude, I fucking, I love this. I'm so glad you guys are back.

• 1:34:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, I love it. It's fucking awesome, dude. The audience fucking likes it, too.

• 1:34:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:34:16Speaker 03

  We'll see you, fuckers.

• 1:34:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, we'll see you guys soon.

• 1:34:19Speaker 03

  Hail Satan.

• 1:34:19Marcus Parks?

  And hail Gene.

• 1:34:20Speaker 04

  Hell, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say hail Lauren Halsey. I went to the greatest concert experience of my life last Tuesday, the Imagine That Show with Flea and Erykah Badu and The Alchemist and DJ Pee Wee. It was fucking incredible. Go and just like, absorb that. There's gotta be footage somewhere, but this new Alchemist to Erykah Badu album is fucking perfect. But regardless, so hail Lauren Halsey for putting that shit together.

• 1:34:43Marcus Parks?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:34:44Speaker 04

  Great.

• 1:34:44Marcus Parks?

  Well, I'm gonna say hail Cheap Trick as well.

• 1:34:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, he came up a lot.

• 1:34:48Marcus Parks?

  While we're here.

• 1:34:49Speaker 03

  And his double guitars.

• 1:34:55Marcus Parks?

  Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie. From roof repair to emergency plumbing and more, when you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project at angie.com.

• 1:35:12Marcus Parks?

  Walmart shoppers, meet the debit card designed with you in mind. The Walmart Money Card offers up to $75 cash back on purchases at Walmart each year. Early direct deposit, overdraft protection, and so much more. When Walmart is your everyday store, you need a card to match. That's the Walmart Money Card. Open your account today. The Walmart Money Card is issued by Green Dot Bank, Member FDIC. Fees, terms, and conditions apply. Visit walmartmoneycard.com to learn more.