Making It Without Losing Yourself Feat. Jess Ekstrom

What would you ask if your uncle was Bernie Madoff? My guest actually sat across from him in prison and the conversation changed the course of her life forever. When I found out that today's guest, Jess Ekstrom, is Bernie Madoff's great niece, I knew we had to start there. Her family didn't just watch one of the biggest financial scandals in history unfold on television. They lived it. They lost nearly everything. Years later, Jess made the decision to visit Bernie Madoff in prison, searching for answers that most people would never have the courage to ask. What he confessed to her during that visit was shocking. He told her that his downfall didn't begin with money or investing. It began as a lonely child trying to buy friendship and approval. That conversation became the foundation for everything Jess teaches today about success, validation, and living a meaningful life. But this episode is about so much more than Bernie Madoff. Jess went on to build an incredible business, sell it for millions, and accomplish goals most entrepreneurs spend a lifetime chasing. Yet after reaching everything she thought would finally make her happy, she realized something almost all high achievers eventually discover. Achievement alone cannot give you fulfillment. We unpack the dangerous "arrival trap" that keeps so many people believing happiness is always waiting on the other side of the next accomplishment. We also dive into the stories we tell ourselves that quietly shape our entire lives. Jess shares how one childhood moment convinced her she wasn't good with numbers, even though she eventually built multiple successful companies. We talk about comparison versus inspiration, why your greatest limitations often begin with a single belief, and how changing your story can completely change your future. This conversation is filled with practical wisdom for anyone who wants to pursue big dreams without sacrificing joy along the way. One of my favorite moments is when Jess shares her incredible framework of becoming a lighthouse instead of a spotlight. That lesson alone is worth listening to this episode. Whether you're building a business, leading a team, raising a family, or simply trying to become the best version of yourself, this conversation will challenge you to stop chasing validation and start building a life rooted in purpose. Key Takeaways: The shocking lesson Jess learned from visiting Bernie Madoff in prison Why the need for approval can quietly shape the direction of your entire life How to avoid the "arrival trap" that keeps high achievers chasing fulfillment The difference between comparison and inspiration and why it changes everything How changing one limiting story can transform your future Why becoming a lighthouse instead of a spotlight will make you a better leader and communicator If you've ever wondered why success doesn't always bring happiness, or you've been chasing a future that never seems to arrive, this conversation will completely change the way you think about ambition, fulfillment, and the life you're building. Listen now and let's Max Out. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at https://shopify.com/mylett Try QUO for free PLUS get 20% off your first 6 months when you go to quo.com/mylett See how K12 Powered Schools can help unlock your child’s full potential! Enroll online today at k12.com/mylett Head to dosedaily.co/MYLETT or enter MYLETT to get 35% off your first subscription. 👉 SUBSCRIBE TO ED'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW 👈⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ → → → CONNECT WITH ED MYLETT ON SOCIAL MEDIA: ← ← ← ➡️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠INSTAGRAM⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ➡️⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠FACEBOOK⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ➡️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LINKEDIN⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ➡️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ➡️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠WEBSITE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ed Mylett?

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• 0:42Ed Mylett?

  favorite small business lender and for good reason. Over 20 years in business, over 12 billion deployed to small business across America. Stop letting bank delays slow down your momentum. Head to cardiff.co/ed. That's cardiff.co/ed. Cardiff.co. Real growth, fast funding. Cardiff, borrow better.

• 1:03Speaker 01

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• 1:36Speaker 02

  This is the Ed and Mylan Show.

• 1:41Ed Mylett?

  Hey, welcome back to the show, you guys. I am so excited. I sought this lady out to have her on the show. And I was telling her off camera, I've been watching her stuff forever, but I wasn't following you. So it was very strange because she comes up in my, I watch so much of your stuff, that you come up on my feed all the time. And the reason that I'm interested in your content is I believe it's so good and so valuable. And so every once in a while, you guys, you know, I pick somebody who I had not met before and I, because I want to meet them. And I want to get to know them. And I'm a fan of her work. She's got a really unique story, really unique story, even a little Madoff in the story. So stay tuned for that. It's, it's, this is gonna be a great hour that you guys are gonna enjoy. We're gonna talk about public speaking. We're gonna talk about climbing and business. We're gonna talk about

• 2:23Ed Mylett?

  the trade offs of success and what you have to give up to do that. I love the book, by the way, I read the book. I didn't just do the Cliff Note thing. I read the book. It's Making It Without Losing It. She's also an expert on public speaking and we're gonna have a great journey today. Jess Extron, welcome to the show.

• 2:39Speaker 03

  Ed, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. I'm so excited to be here.

• 2:43Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, you're awesome.

• 2:44Speaker 03

  So are you.

• 2:45Ed Mylett?

  Thank you. Off camera, I've already enjoyed our time.

• 2:47Speaker 03

  I know.

• 2:47Ed Mylett?

  Let's start with the headline grab first. If we don't, if we don't get right into it, it's like, let's just do it first. You, your family's uncle is Bernie Madoff, as I understand it. You're like the niece or great niece or whatever, but right to your family, he's the uncle. And in your family, my understanding is there's pretty significant loss that he actually did this even to his own family. So your family invested most of their money? Is that fair? With Madoff and lost it. I'm just wondering what that time taught you about what really matters, loss, et cetera. What did that teach you?

• 3:25Speaker 03

  And as a public speaking expert, as you say, this will get me choked up and maybe a little quivery. So bear with me. It's, it's not something I've talked about a lot, but I just remember in high school, coming downstairs one morning, and we had this routine with my parents. They would be, they'd have the Today Show on, they'd be dressed to work out, the lights would be on, they'd be making breakfast. And this one morning, I came down and none of that was happening. And the lights were off, they weren't dressed to work out, and something just felt off. And I asked them what was going on and they told me, you know, it was exam week at school, just go do your exams, we'll talk about it when you

• 4:08Speaker 03

  get home. And I remember my sister and I pulling out of the driveway and my dad running out the front door and just tapping on our window and saying, one more thing, don't turn on the news today.

• 4:21Ed Mylett?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 4:22Speaker 03

  And this was before, you know, we got alerts of every bad thing happening in the world, you know, sent to our phone. And so went to school, came home, there, we had this guest room attached to the garage that had this TV in it that I would watch all the shows I wasn't allowed to watch because my parents, you know, couldn't hear it. And so I go in there before they knew I was home and I turned on the TV. And that was when I just saw it on every channel was Bernie Madoff stealing $64 billion in his Ponzi scheme. It was this surreal, outer body experience because not only did I, in that moment, realize we just, my parents probably just lost everything they worked for, that our family was now in,

• 5:06Speaker 03

  swept up into this frenzy of just not knowing which way was up. And, but I will tell you, it was, um, wow. I think sometimes, you know, as speakers, you're like, always trying to find, what's the silver lining? And that took a long time to figure out what that was. But it happened when I visited him in prison, which, again, I don't really talk about a lot. Yeah. I don't even, did you even, I, maybe you didn't even know that. But, um, so when he was sentenced to 150 years, it was in Butler, North Carolina, which I live in Raleigh. And so it was like 45 minutes from me. This is kinda just, what do I do

• 5:50Speaker 03

  with that? And, um, so I wrote him a letter and asked if I could visit him. He was very, very, yes, because not a lot of people were, obviously. And when I went there, you know, um, and sat in front of him, I kind of, you know, thought he was gonna try to explain it to me in a way that I wouldn't understand, you know, stock markets and just stuff that I didn't get. But he told me something that truly kind of changed the trajectory of my life and my work. He said, this crime didn't start when I made my first bad investment.

• 6:32Speaker 03

  It started when I was a kid in Brooklyn, and none of the other kids would play with me. And so I would go door to door with nickels, bribing them to play with me.

• 6:43Ed Mylett?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 6:44Speaker 03

  And that's when I learned attention and adoration can be bought.

• 6:50Ed Mylett?

  My gosh.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so that was.

• 6:53Ed Mylett?

  He was that open and vulnerable with you.

• 6:55Speaker 03

  That open and vulnerable. That changed over time. I visited him for years and I think he kinda, I don't know what happened, but, uh, in the beginning, it was very, he saw himself. He saw what, what, how this happened.

• 7:09Ed Mylett?

  He had done some self-analysis.

• 7:11Speaker 03

  Some self-analysis, exactly. Yeah.

• 7:14Ed Mylett?

  We won't, our whole interview's not gonna be about this, but I just, it's so fascinating because it's gonna lead to questions I'm gonna ask you in a few minutes about life in general that you've learned. But I'm just curious, how is your family? Is there a silver lining? Or is it just, was it just, look, it was just a devastating event and it is what it is?

• 7:29Speaker 03

  I appreciate that question because it was, um, now being a mom myself, I have one and a three year old, and watching what my parents and my family had to go through during that time and all the uncertainty, um, I just feel for them. But they eventually went on to, they started, you know, they had their own company and, um, then eventually sold it and became park rangers.

• 7:54Ed Mylett?

  Really?

• 7:55Speaker 03

  I mean, we were talking about this before, how some people are like, they know what's enough. And even if it's not this big number that you thought that originally years prior that they were gonna have, and now they help me, you know, me and my husband with our kids, my sister became like an ultra marathon runner. But the truly interesting story, I think, from the kind of the silver lining from this is my grandparents, who were retired and lost everything, um, they started a cab driving company, uh, taking people to the airport.

• 8:26Ed Mylett?

  And, uh, After this?

• 8:28Speaker 03

  After this. So in their like 80s.

• 8:30Ed Mylett?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 8:31Speaker 03

  And of course, I was like, oh, my gosh, poor things, taking people to the airport and they should be just retired. My grandma, she always told me she thought she was like born in the wrong decade. She wanted to be just a businesswoman. And she became that in her 80s, just running this cab company.

• 8:47Ed Mylett?

  And that likely never happens. Well, certainly never happens.

• 8:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:51Ed Mylett?

  If this tragic event doesn't take place.

• 8:53Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 8:54Ed Mylett?

  Isn't God awesome? And aren't human beings resilient? We, we have more resiliency than we realize. I mean, for your grandmother and grandfather to pick themselves up somehow, clearly God comforted them and had his hand on their lives during that time. But, but the other piece of it is, we're more resilient than we think we are. At that age to get back up again, that's pretty unbelievable.

• 9:15Speaker 03

  If you had said, this is like what you're gonna go through, or what my parents, no way. And then you realize you, you're just more strong than you give yourself credit for.

• 9:25Ed Mylett?

  Gosh. It leads to what I want to talk about today. Although I'm really glad I asked you that because that's bizarre. I mean, that's, that's, that's gonna be a, that's a life event that most people, most people can't relate to that life event, but they can relate to tragedy. They can relate to a dream falling apart. You know, in fact, most people can. And there's a lot you say in this book that interests me. Like, I want to begin to normalize, it's okay at some point to say this is enough. Like, the social media and the internet's made us all think we have to run to the end of our life after trillions of dollars and three Lamborghinis. And like, it's just made that normal as opposed to living life on your own terms. We were talking about somebody off camera that I shared with you that's gonna

• 10:07Ed Mylett?

  retire now and she's living life on her own terms. And I'm so proud of her for calling that shot. You, you made a lot of money yourself, young. And you have this part of the book, I, I forget the term that you use, but it's essentially, actually, I'm gonna find the term because I liked it so much.

• 10:24Ed Mylett?

  Making it without losing yourself is one of the terms. And the other thing that you have in there is this term. This is going to get normalized after today's show, the arrival trap. So you made a bunch of money young. It wasn't what you thought.

• 10:36Speaker 03

  No.

• 10:36Ed Mylett?

  What, what, what did you think it was? And what, what was it actually when you did it?

• 10:41Speaker 03

  I've thought about this because I think when I first started my first company, I think there was a part of me that if I'm truly being honest with myself in this moment, was I wanted to make up for the loss that my family had just received. Not just financially, but emotionally. You know, I wanted my parents, I wanted to do something so good that the bad became white noise. And so I started this, you know, social impact company called Headbands of Hope and went really well. We did headbands for the MBA, the WNBA, eventually got on to get acquired.

• 11:15Ed Mylett?

  It went huge and it was awesome. Like the, the reason behind it was awesome as well.

• 11:20Speaker 03

  It was, and I, you know, you have this date on your calendar. Maybe it's an acquisition, maybe it's a promotion, maybe it's something. And you say to yourself, like, once I can get this, then I can relax. You know, be with my family, then I can feel successful, then I can feel fulfilled. I've not met one person where that's actually been true.

• 11:42Ed Mylett?

  It's not true.

• 11:42Speaker 03

  It's not true. And so this pinnacle for me, my date on my calendar was an acquisition. I'm like, once I can do something that really not a lot of women do, you know, and have this seven figure exit and it, if anything, I almost felt worse because you think it's going to be the thing that makes you feel better. And I talk about this in the book, there's science behind it. And Olympians face this where they go to the Olympics and then all of a sudden they are depressed after. And it's this post-achievement letdown where you have so much focus on a singular moment or a singular outcome that you think is going to fix or heal or complete part of you. And when it's not, it can be extremely disappointing.

• 12:24Speaker 03

  And so what I am trying to fix this arrival trap of this one side, then I that we get in our head. We all have it, but it's not going to be the thing. Like there's no single achievement that's going to cure our ambition.

• 12:39Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 12:40Speaker 03

  And so if we realize like, all we have is the process, who we're becoming along the way, like the fun experiments, the mistakes. And there's not like one thing that's going to be this like ribbon cutting feeling. Then it, it gets us out of this singular mindset.

• 12:58Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, you're a wise soul for being so young because I've made that mistake many times, not just once. I keep moving the goalpost.

• 13:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:05Ed Mylett?

  Okay, so that wasn't the thing. So then if I get to this thing or that house or this achievement or help that many people. And some of it becomes noble too. You think, okay, now it's not about material things. I'm going to be happy once I've helped this many people. But you're delaying this event. Have you seen, I want to just stay on this just for a second. Have you seen the show, The Madison, written by Taylor Sheridan?

• 13:26Speaker 03

  No, I haven't.

• 13:27Ed Mylett?

  Kurt Russell and Michelle Pfeiffer.

• 13:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:29Ed Mylett?

  There's this great, I'll butcher it, but there's this great opening scene of the show. He's this rich financial financier from New York, but he's got this place in Montana that he goes every year. That's beautiful. Like it's his refuge. He's sitting on this porch with his brother. They're literally in rocking chairs, looking at this river, beautiful scenery. And he's telling his brother that he was just on this vacation in the Caribbean. And the reason that you learned this lesson so young is so beautiful and I want everybody to hear it from you. You know, he's, he says, we're just in the Caribbean and he goes, we were sitting on our balcony and we're watching all, I'm butchering the scene, but it's my version of it. And he said, I'm looking at the beach and there's all these 80 year olds walking on the beach, kind of limping along. And they all worked and waited their entire life for this moment. This was the moment.

• 14:15Ed Mylett?

  And he said, and they got there and it was too late. They really can't walk anymore.

• 14:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:20Ed Mylett?

  They're ill, they're suffering with a disease. They're at dinner that night and they really don't communicate anymore. And he goes, they delayed their happiness their entire life for this moment. And they actually finally got the moment and it was too late.

• 14:33Speaker 03

  I was with my daughter before I came here and I got her this sticker book. And she's a big sticker girl right now. And she wanted to use all of the stickers, you know, all hundred, whatever of them in one sitting. And I started to say, honey, no, no, no, no, you gotta save your stickers. You know, you can't use them all in one sitting. And then Ed, I realized I am about to teach her what I'm actively trying to unlearn, which is delaying my joy. And, and I realized in that moment, watching her use all these stickers. How many gift cards do I have in my drawer that are now expired?

• 15:11Ed Mylett?

  My gosh, that's so true.

• 15:12Speaker 03

  How many outfits do I have where I'm wearing, waiting for the perfect date night or the perfect moment to put them on? And it's too late.

• 15:21Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, she's so right.

• 15:22Speaker 03

  And so I was like, yeah, girl, use those stickers.

• 15:25Ed Mylett?

  Good.

• 15:25Speaker 03

  Use the stickers because this is all we got.

• 15:29Ed Mylett?

  You're so right. I'm so glad that you talk about this and actually as a young person too, because I've made that mistake.

• 15:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:36Ed Mylett?

  You know, and I'm, I'm not as young as I once was. I wish I knew that at your age. It's hard though, let's, let me ask you a tough question. Theoretically, that is true. But this grind in you thing, that dog, that hunt, that I'm going to go get it, that I'm going to sacrifice things other people aren't willing to sacrifice to do something great, also is required.

• 16:00Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 16:01Ed Mylett?

  Yet you say in the book, you kind of felt like you lost yourself. You actually have a, a whole part on that. So where's the nuance? Where's the, the sweet space you're supposed to be?

• 16:11Speaker 03

  I know, because sometimes you have, I have this fear where if I'm, if I'm content with myself, does that mean that I'm not going to build things?

• 16:18Ed Mylett?

  You're going to lose the thing.

• 16:19Speaker 03

  Exactly. Will I lose my edge? And that's what this book explored. I'm like, can we do both? Can we be just ambitious towards the future while being happy in the present? And a couple of things that I've learned. So ambitious people, which you are, I am, I have a feeling anyone listening to this show is, you will always have a gap.

• 16:41Ed Mylett?

  You got it.

• 16:42Speaker 03

  Always have a gap between where you're standing now and where you want to be. But how you see that gap is the difference.

• 16:49Ed Mylett?

  Okay, what do you mean?

• 16:49Speaker 03

  So that gap can either be a disappointing net loss. I'm like, dang, I'm not on that stage today. Like I wanted that, I'm less, they're better than me. Or that gap between where you're standing and where you want to be, the stage you want to be on, is an exciting opportunity to see what you're made of. I wonder what it would take for me to get on that stage with Ed and John and whoever it might be. I wonder what it would take for me to become a New York Times bestseller. Didn't get it this time. What, what's possible for?

• 17:23Ed Mylett?

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• 18:06Ed Mylett?

  Go to ro.co/mylet to see if you qualify. That's R-O dot C-O slash my let to get started on Ro. For side effects of GLP-1 medications, including boxed warning, go to ro.co forward slash safety. R-O dot C-O slash safety. So when I, when I ended up buying the island, we had to do all of our outdoor decorating and I spent a fortune in the first half of the place. And I'm like, I don't want to do this anymore, but I want the best stuff. And that's where Wayfair came in. My wife wanted to get this new garden bed and Wayfair was the place that offered the perfect solution. Wayfair also helps you create a home that stands up to real life with quality products, great value and trusted reviews. Wayfair verified products are hand vetted by product specialists. They use a 10-point quality inspection system. Here's all I can tell you. The stuff has lasted over time.

• 18:50Ed Mylett?

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• 19:23Speaker 03

  Wayfair, every style, every home. So that gap can either be like a pit of despair or a sandbox of opportunity. And so how we see the gap is the game. But I think so many of us, including myself, saw any time that I wasn't where I wanted to be as a net loss, like as a, I'm not there yet. And so really our ambition is pulled. We can have anxious ambition, which comes from a place where we're working because we feel behind or we're in a comparison spiral, which happens a lot. Or there's inspired ambition, which is we're working because we feel like we're making something better or we're working something that's deeply interesting to us. So we got to get comfortable that there will always be a gap.

• 20:07Ed Mylett?

  I used to have the, I need to bring it back. I did a whole series once on what I call blissful dissatisfaction.

• 20:15Speaker 03

  Oh, tell me about that.

• 20:15Ed Mylett?

  Well, well, I'll tell you briefly because I want to know your thoughts on things. But, but what I, what I uncovered, and it took me till I was about 45. I think I probably created that message and content was then, was that we conflate happiness and satisfaction. I think you can live in bliss and still have a little of dissatisfaction between knowing this is where I am and this is my capacity or my potential. That dissatisfaction, I don't want to lose that. That's the pull power. That's the magnet. That's the thing that says, I want to grow and expand my being and help more people and meet the version of me that I'm capable of becoming. That's dissatisfaction. I can still be blissful during the time I'm dissatisfied.

• 20:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:55Ed Mylett?

  In fact, some of the happiest times of my life is when I was the most broke, the most dissatisfied. It's when I was grinding, it's when the business just started. It's when I was in college with a job and playing baseball and, and I didn't have anything going. But I was the most happy. I was blissfully dissatisfied. But I found a way to be happy in the dissatisfaction. And I think most people think, well, satisfaction is happiness. Not always. In fact, what you said about the Olympic athletes is completely been true. They actually studied the brain. Turns out you get more dopamine, serotonin in the pursuit of the goal.

• 21:28Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 21:28Ed Mylett?

  And it falls off the charts once you cross the finish line and get it. Your brain just stops giving you the joy chemicals.

• 21:33Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 21:33Ed Mylett?

  So you're totally right about that.

• 21:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. And something you were saying, uh, that I just realized right now is kind of a litmus test that we can give ourselves is how do we feel when we receive feedback? I used to, when I would receive feedback, it would be. I would get on the defense, oh, my gosh, I'm being attacked, I'm not good enough, I'm not there yet. And then now, if I get feedback from credible people, I am so excited because I truly do wanna know how I can be better. And so, almost like, what's your disposition when someone's giving you feedback?

• 22:09Ed Mylett?

  Very good.

• 22:09Speaker 03

  Can be really telling as to like, how you see yourself in your pursuit of ambition. Is it this like hamster wheel rat race, or is it, oh, I'm really excited to see what I can become?

• 22:20Ed Mylett?

  It's also where you expend your energy. Like, I've met you now, you are what you say in the book. Which I love that. Not everybody that I've interviewed is who they say they are in the book. And I like this about you very much. You're authentic. And one of the things you say in the book, you say it the better way, your way, I'll mess it up and then you fix it, okay? But there's a part of the book where you're talking about this disbelief that we almost have, that we waste energy on almost stressing and fretting over the success or progress other people appear to be making.

• 22:52Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 22:53Ed Mylett?

  And it takes from us, you say something, say it your way, but you say something like, like, just because they're winning, you're not losing, or something like that. How do you say it and what's the principle?

• 23:03Speaker 03

  So, like any normal human being, I find myself at nine PM scrolling and comparing myself to all the other squares on the internet. And I have found that, you know, you can see people who have something that you want in two different ways. Comparison is seeing someone else's win as your loss, you know? They got the stage, they got the TED Talk, they got the, you know, accolade, I didn't get it, so therefore I'm less than them. So comparison is seeing someone's win as your loss. Inspiration, however, is seeing someone else's win as evidence that it's possible for you. Oh, they could do it, which means I can do it. That person, you know, could get it, which I wonder what their path was.

• 23:48Speaker 03

  And so, you know, in my line of work today, it's, it's, I help women speakers get on stages and it's a very leading from evidence that it's possible and not comparing yourself to other speakers because those speakers already exist. They need you.

• 24:05Ed Mylett?

  We're gonna talk about the women speaking thing in a minute. Actually, just speaking in a second, cuz you are tremendous.

• 24:11Speaker 03

  Oh, thanks.

• 24:11Ed Mylett?

  It's something I've done a little of myself.

• 24:13Speaker 03

  I think so, yeah.

• 24:14Ed Mylett?

  We'll, we'll talk about that. But before we go to that topic, because I think in order to get there anywhere, you have to make some distinctions. And I don't like reading books, frankly, at this stage in my life. I feel like I've already read that book written by another author.

• 24:26Speaker 03

  The book that could have been an email.

• 24:28Ed Mylett?

  Exactly.

• 24:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:29Ed Mylett?

  Or it's just frankly, someone else's work.

• 24:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:32Ed Mylett?

  And that's not this book.

• 24:33Speaker 03

  Oh, appreciate that.

• 24:34Ed Mylett?

  And you make a great distinction in your work about the difference, again, you say it your way, not the way I keep butchering it, but the difference between external motivation and internal. And I, I know it's right because I've lived it, but I never articulated it this way. So what's the difference between the two and, and is one more powerful than the other or meaningful?

• 24:56Speaker 03

  Well, going back to Bernie's story, I feel like that moment of when he was paying people in nickels and how, just the ripple effect of that, it taught me just the deep cost of being motivated by external things. And how, what a slippery slope that can be. And when you base like your success and your achievement on someone else, you're putting it in someone else's hands. And so I'll give you a quick story. I was at, um, very, very early in my speaking career, I was at an event that I spoke at and I was very new and there was another very big name speaker there. And, uh, let's just call him Bill for the sake of the, the story, that wasn't his name, but.

• 25:41Speaker 03

  And Bill came up to me after and I remember he goes, do you have a valid passport? And I was like, absolutely I do, even though I did not. He goes, good, cuz I'm gonna make you a world-class speaker. Like, you're coming with me. And I was just euphoric. I'm like, called my mom, I'm like, you're not gonna believe it, I met Bill, he picked me, like, he selected me. And he's gonna make me the thing that I wanna become.

• 26:08Speaker 03

  I waited by the phone, waited, never heard from him again. And it was this moment where I was like, oh, well, that was my ticket. Like, that external thing, that person selecting me was the thing that was gonna get me to where I wanted to go. And so you kind of feel like you were holding the lottery ticket and the wind blew. You're like, man, that was it. So then I had a choice where I'm like, okay, do I just let that be the deciding factor? Or do I keep being consistent, keep getting the mic wherever I can? And then that's when I started teaming up with other women who were also speaking, let's watch each other's footage, let's refer each other.

• 26:45Speaker 03

  And then I started getting the reps and eight years later, I was speaking at an event and Bill was speaking there.

• 26:54Ed Mylett?

  I'm gonna know who Bill is when we're done.

• 26:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he, and I realized in that moment, like, I was speaking, I was standing in the spot that I thought only Bill could get me to.

• 27:07Ed Mylett?

  Ooh, good.

• 27:08Speaker 03

  And I got there through my own intrinsic work, my own, like, getting the reps, consistency and teaming up with other women. And so I, for a long time, thought success was being selected. You know, someone else would pick me and tell me that I was, you know, would endorse my book, would do this. If they picked me, then I got it. But I felt like true success happened when I stopped looking for the hand and started offering one.

• 27:32Ed Mylett?

  Oh, boy.

• 27:33Speaker 03

  It was

• 27:34Ed Mylett?

  Oh, boy.

• 27:35Speaker 03

  Looking around. Yeah. And so that's where this difference between extrinsic, waiting for someone else to pick you, select you, or getting the, something that can be measured, whereas intrinsic is like, has the greatest horsepower and secret. No one needs to know about it.

• 27:49Ed Mylett?

  It's very good.

• 27:50Speaker 03

  It's only you. Yeah.

• 27:51Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, it's the idea of like, you think you need to be invited to sit at the table, instead, pull up the chair and sit there.

• 27:57Speaker 03

  One hundred percent.

• 27:57Ed Mylett?

  Yeah. I gotta tell you, today's an interesting day for me, since we're gonna talk about speaking in a minute, but I want you to talk about this. My, we're at the scene today where you and I are sitting of really the first speech I ever gave that was a public speech, like, literally with about,

• 28:12Ed Mylett?

  we could walk to where it is, this town, where we're here. And I didn't do very well. And I wanted to talk and speak, but I, it wasn't my primary desire to become, you know, speak all over around the world or whatever. But I just didn't do well.

• 28:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:28Ed Mylett?

  And I remember getting back and I wanna talk about the stories we tell ourselves, cuz you talk about this a little bit too. So I get back and my, my dad's like, hey, how'd you do? And I go, it was, it wasn't good. And he goes, I'm sure it was better than you think. I said, nah, actually not. It just wasn't good. And he goes, well, why do you think that is? My dad always asks questions, why do you think that is? And I said, you know, I just think the way, Dad, that I'm wired and I'm an introvert and, you know, and I'm not really motivated like these other people. I'm not a jump up and down rah rah kinda guy and so I just don't really believe I'm kind of wired to, which is ironic, cuz now I, you know, do it a lot. And, um, and I just don't think I'm, I just don't believe I'm wired to do it. And then I gave him a story of when I was a kid.

• 29:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:13Ed Mylett?

  And I, and my dad sat back, goes, huh? And he kind of looks down and he goes,

• 29:19Ed Mylett?

  well, I wonder what you would need to believe so you could be a good speaker. I go, what do you mean? He goes, well, what would you need to believe? Like, you don't believe, what would you need to believe? And then I go, I don't know. And he goes, I think, Eddie, I think it's in the story. If you would change the story, you would change what you believe.

• 29:37Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 29:37Ed Mylett?

  And I went, huh, this pretty smart guy.

• 29:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, now I see where you came from. Yeah, yeah.

• 29:41Ed Mylett?

  No, he's just a guy. You know, my dad was like, there's wisdom in there.

• 29:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:45Ed Mylett?

  And I started to think about, hmm, what would the story need to be? What story would I need to tell myself? And I finally figured out, you know what? There's millions of people more like me than like these extroverted speakers.

• 29:55Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 29:55Ed Mylett?

  And I could be the one to give everybody hope that somehow someone like me, I started to change the story and I changed what I believed. You talk about sort of like the story we tell ourselves in your work.

• 30:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:06Ed Mylett?

  What, what would you tell someone who's listening to this? I wanna make my dreams come true, I'm being held back, I don't believe. Do you think it's probably connected to a story?

• 30:13Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh. I remember I was in fourth grade and apparently there's one day in fourth grade where you learn fractions. And if you don't, if you're not there on that day, good luck with fractions for the rest of your life. And I missed that day. I was, you know, and I get back to school the next day. The teacher calls me up to the board to do some like, what's one-fourth of, you know, eighty? I'm like, oh, my gosh, I don't know. And I, for thirty years, from that whiteboard, told myself, I'm not good with numbers. Like, I'm just bad at math, I'm not good with numbers. I would enter any finance meeting for my company, making self-deprecating jokes. Oh, like, don't show me the spreadsheet, my eyes will burn and, you know, I can't do this.

• 30:55Speaker 03

  And, um, there was just one day where I finally realized, this is

• 31:01Speaker 03

  I, this belief has been so repetitive that I mistake it for truth. Where I'm like, I'm running two multimillion dollar businesses. I'm employing all these people. I gotta be good with numbers.

• 31:14Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 31:15Speaker 03

  Gotta have something. I can, I can do it.

• 31:18Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 31:19Speaker 03

  And so I made this decision in that moment. I was like, no more. You know, I'm not coming in with the self deprecating jokes and finance meetings. I am not, you know, putting the numbers also in someone else's hands where I'm not aware of them anymore. And a lot of times we can track a limiting belief to an origin story.

• 31:40Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 31:40Speaker 03

  And that was my origin story. And so, once you realize, oh, that's where it was. Not built off of this mountain of evidence, but like one.

• 31:49Ed Mylett?

  One event.

• 31:50Speaker 03

  One event.

• 31:51Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 31:51Speaker 03

  You know, and it can just dispel it.

• 31:53Ed Mylett?

  And I think the more emotional the event.

• 31:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:56Ed Mylett?

  The, the stronger the belief is rooted in our nervous system.

• 32:00Speaker 03

  Yes, and childhood and just, you know, the vulnerability of it. I'm an introvert as well, which I also think is very interesting being speakers. Um, I'm more comfortable on a, on a stage and 5,000 people than I am, you know, one to one.

• 32:13Ed Mylett?

  Really?

• 32:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:14Ed Mylett?

  Very interesting. Same here.

• 32:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:16Ed Mylett?

  In fact, the more people in the arena, the more comfortable I am.

• 32:19Speaker 03

  Why is that?

• 32:20Ed Mylett?

  I don't know. I did last week, I had two talks. One was about 20,000.

• 32:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:23Ed Mylett?

  Felt good.

• 32:24Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 32:24Ed Mylett?

  Confident, crushed. The other one was like 50 in Mexico. I need to go down there in 50. And I was, I, I don't know, whatever the thing is I have that is good, wasn't there.

• 32:35Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 32:36Ed Mylett?

  And it was, I just felt more self, I don't know, maybe it's because I could see every eye.

• 32:39Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 32:40Ed Mylett?

  So I'm, I'm thinking of what, what they're thinking. I don't know, but at this stage, I don't know how many people I've talked in front of, but it's, it's maybe a hundred million. I don't, I don't know, maybe, I don't know, millions for sure. Maybe not a hundred million, but millions and millions. And it was, uh.

• 32:52Speaker 03

  I'll do the math for you.

• 32:53Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, that's right. You're good at math. Turns out you're good at math. Turns out you're good at math. I, uh, I don't know. I was like, I, I'm sure it went okay, but I was so nervous and so awkward. And it took me a long time to get into my flow and rhythm, much longer than normal.

• 33:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:07Ed Mylett?

  You would think the reverse. That's the easy one. There's 50 people or it's just one on one. Ah, man, that.

• 33:12Speaker 03

  I'm the same way.

• 33:13Ed Mylett?

  That's interesting.

• 33:14Speaker 03

  So interesting. I do think there's a vulnerability to a smaller audience where you can really see people. There's more, um, uh, maybe pressure's not the right word, but like opportunity to be more interactive. Whereas with a stage of 5,000 people, you have your set. Like I have you, you have your control, not that you do the same thing every time, but you're like, I know what, how this goes.

• 33:36Ed Mylett?

  I think you're right.

• 33:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:37Ed Mylett?

  I think way more people want to speak than admit it even to themselves. Meaning this, and this is where we're going to shift into the, where you're a guru. So there's, a, a lot of people will tell themselves, well, I don't, you know, I don't like speaking or I don't want to speak. Uh, or is it, you're afraid of it? I mean, there's a difference that you don't like it or wouldn't be good at it, or that you have a fear for it. Most people, I think, would love to be able to get out and give a beautiful toast at their child's wedding.

• 34:04Speaker 03

  Right.

• 34:05Ed Mylett?

  Right? Or be more effective, because you teach different speaking. You teach stage speaking.

• 34:08Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 34:09Ed Mylett?

  But you also teach business speaking, being in a boardroom, being able to communicate with 10 people sitting around a table. Right? So let's start foundationally. So you know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself wearing like on repeat all the time? That sweater that kind of just goes with everything or these perfect pair of pants? Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy. And that's what Quince does best. Quince focuses on high quality wardrobe staples with premium materials like a hundred percent Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton. The styles are timeless, versatile and designed to become the dependable pieces you reach for every day. It's what I'm wearing right now. They give you the softness and quality you'd expect from a luxury brand without the price tag. Quince also makes premium pants, fitted tees and polos and breathable activewear.

• 34:51Ed Mylett?

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• 35:32Ed Mylett?

  16 supplements replaced 90 ingredients across nine major organ systems in one drink. You can have all these supplements for $2.61 a day. I've changed my mornings. The whole IM8 routine has changed my mornings. I feel great and I bring energy to the entire day. Go to im8health.com/ed10 right now, or click the link in the description and use code ED10 for a free welcome kit. Five free travel sachets plus 10% off your order. That's code ED10 at im8health.com/ed10. Code ED10 at im8health.com/ed10. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.

• 36:14Ed Mylett?

  This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. And, and I think this is fair to ask first. Can almost anyone get good at it? Or is there some like little anointing that certain people have in terms of speaking?

• 36:30Speaker 03

  I'll say something maybe controversial, but I think that if you think you're bad at speaking, you probably have the opportunity to be a great speaker. Because there's a curiosity, there's a humbleness to it. I, you know, someone the other day was like, well, you teach people to be experts. If you teach people to be speakers, you teach people to be experts. I'm like, no, I actually teach them to be students. Because to be a speaker, my opinion is that you now are not speaking on something that you feel like you're an expert at. You're speaking about something that you are just lifelong curious about. Because whatever topic it is, motivation, you know, whatever you're speaking about, it's going to change.

• 37:13Speaker 03

  How we get there, public speaking, I don't consider myself, I'm pretty good at it. But I wouldn't say that I'm an expert because now with AI, there's just so many changes. I'm a lifelong student of it. So I think that if you almost have the fear of public speaking, I don't know if I can do this. You probably have this like relatable, humble approach that can make you a great speaker. Now, there's definitely tips and mindset tricks that we can get into that can help with that. But I think anyone can be a great speaker.

• 37:42Ed Mylett?

  Good. I'm glad to hear that. I was Gary Vee, uh, I'd interviewed Gary this week. It won't be out for a while, but in fact, it'll probably come out before this one. But we were talking about, one of my favorite characteristics or qualities in my friends is curiosity. I love curious people because you know what? It's one of the ways you, you lose the kid in you.

• 38:00Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 38:01Ed Mylett?

  You lose curiosity. Children are so curious, right? So like that, that, I, that one word right there about you're curious about this. That, that should be a clue to someone as well. The fact that you're curious or it's mystical to you, or man, you wish you could be better at it. That's usually, I think that's your soul saying, you should take a look over here.

• 38:19Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 38:20Ed Mylett?

  You should be curious over here. This is something that might be for you, even though it seems scary.

• 38:26Speaker 03

  I like to say, you know, if a topic was brought up in a room, like what would pique your interest? Like, I'm really excited to talk about that. Or the other thing I ask people, if I gave you money for a billboard on your local highway and you could put one phrase on it? One thing that you want people to know, what would it be?

• 38:44Ed Mylett?

  Interesting.

• 38:44Speaker 03

  And people have something, like everyone has survived their hardest days. And speaking isn't about sharing your highlight reel. It's sharing like what you wish you would have known. I had the chance last week to give the commencement address at my high school graduation, which was awesome. And it was such a gift to be able to say, oh, what did I wish I knew in that moment? And the thing that I think a lot of speakers get wrong is that in order to teach what you learned, you have to teach where you failed. Like you have to show where like, oh, that didn't go so well. And so let me tell that story. But in the beginning of my speaking career, I thought it was all about sharing how, why I deserve to be there.

• 39:26Speaker 03

  Why I'm credible. I've been on the Today Show. I've done this. I've done these things. I've done all this stuff. I deserve to be here. No one was learning anything. It was crickets. No one wanted to talk to me. There was no spinoff from it. And I remember the exact talk where I got a parking ticket that day and someone else got a parking ticket today. I got a parking ticket. It was raining and didn't bring my umbrella and I was just so tired of. Trying to step into this role of being what I thought a speaker would be. And I talked about a time where I lost a family investment of my dad was my first investor in my company and I wired that money to what was a fraudulent manufacturer and ended up losing that investment and what I did next.

• 40:10Speaker 03

  And it was the speech that made me a speaker because it wasn't about me anymore.

• 40:15Ed Mylett?

  Did everybody just hear this?

• 40:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:17Ed Mylett?

  So profound, what you just said. Once you start revealing your imperfections and being willing to connect with people, then you've met them somewhere. You don't have to have this resume.

• 40:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:29Ed Mylett?

  The resume distances you from the room. You know, of all the, and by the way, in a minute, you're gonna tell us what you told the high schoolers. I haven't forgotten that.

• 40:36Speaker 03

  Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.

• 40:37Ed Mylett?

  But I want to tell you something, how true, by the way, that's everyone lean in here, okay, because she's so right. I, early in my career, when I was in the financial business, they would bring in all these millionaire speakers to teach. I don't know, this guy's worth three million, this guy's worth two million, this lady's worth nine million, and they would give these talks. And I was, I'm from a lower middle-class family, poor, it was on welfare when I was a little boy. I couldn't connect with any of these guys. And one night, the speaker flaked on this speaker series, so they brought in this dude. I don't remember his name, I'm gonna say it, I don't even know if he's still alive. They brought in this man, little Filipino man, his name was Ben Patao. I sat in the front row and almost no one showed up because the name speaker didn't come and some guy named Ben. And I remember, this was like a million years ago, but I remember he walked up and

• 41:21Ed Mylett?

  he had a simple suit on and he said, you know, I know you were gonna have so-and-so here and you've had all these million-dollar speakers. And he said, I don't, I've never made a million dollars a year, but I've made three hundred thousand. And he goes, and I don't know how many of you would be interested in that, but I do know how to do that. I've done it. It took me 20 years, but I do know how to do it. So tonight, if you're interested, I can teach you how to make three hundred thousand dollars in this business. Man, I leaned in. And he started talking about his family, he's a simple man and simply spoken too. That, to this day, Ben Patao, right? Was the most impactful speaker of my life.

• 42:04Speaker 03

  I love that.

• 42:04Ed Mylett?

  And I am not inter, I've never said that on any interview, anywhere, ever, till right now, I just got gooses. And I've been, I've talked about everything.

• 42:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:11Ed Mylett?

  I am not talking to you. I am quitting that business, by the way, almost for sure, because I couldn't relate to these suits and the shoes they were wearing and the words they use, this simple man.

• 42:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:22Ed Mylett?

  And by the way, that was a lot of money. And I thought, man, if I could make three hundred thousand in a year, I could, I could have a house, I could probably pay it off someday. It gave me my first dream. I couldn't buy this huge dream, I needed just a dream.

• 42:35Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 42:35Ed Mylett?

  And he sold me the dream, in a way, because he was vulnerable and real. You know what a lot of people making three hundred grand would have done? Come in and faked they were making more.

• 42:44Speaker 03

  A hundred percent, let's triple it.

• 42:46Ed Mylett?

  Right, let's triple it.

• 42:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, round up to a million, yeah.

• 42:48Ed Mylett?

  You're so right.

• 42:50Speaker 03

  And people need to be able to connect the dots between where they're sitting and where you're standing. And whether that's in an audience or whether that's on social media, but it's like, there has to be a clear path of like, oh, that's possible for me. I catch myself sometimes too, you know, as a speaker, it's like, you are, I'm speaking to, you know, these large companies and I'm like, well, I need to, I need to step into this role of knowing everything, like that I have it all figured out. But I'll tell you, I mean, like, the, like, I can share some of those stories and then I'll share a story about how, you know, my kid threw a fit in the grocery store and

• 43:34Speaker 03

  people are like, oh, I get, when I started, I've shared a couple of times on stage, Bernie's story, and the amount of people that have come up to me that have had something that they just have never talked about, relative or, you know, something that they've just been ashamed or embarrassed of and how it just gave them permission.

• 43:52Ed Mylett?

  Yep.

• 43:53Speaker 03

  They need to be able to draw the line between where they're sitting and where you're standing or else it won't resonate.

• 43:58Ed Mylett?

  Lot of depth in your work, by the way.

• 44:00Speaker 03

  Thanks.

• 44:01Ed Mylett?

  Lot of depth. I really enjoy how you think.

• 44:05Speaker 03

  I appreciate that.

• 44:05Ed Mylett?

  What you tell the high schoolers?

• 44:07Speaker 03

  Oh my gosh. I'll give you one thing. The thing that I think I needed to hear right now, that I was wondering, because I, one of my favorite parts about speaking, going back to curiosity, is the pre-call. You know, you talk to the event before, tell me what keeps people up at night, what are they, what are they thinking? What's, a lot of times you have no idea, I'm like, I don't know what a insurance, stock planning, some, you know, I don't know. And so, tell me. So I did the same, I called teachers, tell me what this class of 2026 is feeling. And I'm like, they're really scared of AI.

• 44:39Ed Mylett?

  Yep.

• 44:39Speaker 03

  And what it's doing.

• 44:40Ed Mylett?

  Lot of booze at commencement addresses.

• 44:42Speaker 03

  Lot of booze, I was like, okay, let's not do that. But I was like, you gotta address it. Because it's, it's here.

• 44:49Ed Mylett?

  It's there.

• 44:50Speaker 03

  They're like, they don't know what their place is in this, the ambition levels are low. So I'm like, what, what is true in this and what do I need to tell them? And it just came back to this overwhelming belief that like, I, you know, AI makes a lot of things uncertain, but one certainty is that being a good human always wins. I mean, the amount, and I know you see this, of opportunities, promotions, partnerships, because they're like, Ed, that's a good man. He's a good person, let's bring him here. Like, I don't even know what, you know, maybe his topic is right now, but he's a good person.

• 45:33Speaker 03

  And so, hold the door, take out your AirPods with, when you're at the airport, talk to the, you know, older person, pour your water, pour someone else's water before you pour your own, just like the basic human things is our most competitive advantage right now.

• 45:48Ed Mylett?

  Oh my gosh.

• 45:49Speaker 03

  And

• 45:50Ed Mylett?

  So good.

• 45:51Speaker 03

  That's

• 45:51Ed Mylett?

  You're, you're, you're, it's so, look, when I do the show, someone, I'm just telling you, you, you just explained my life to me. I'm running on the beach, I'm in Hawaii, I'm 29 years old, I'm running down this beach early in the morning, sun's not up yet, there's a guy running towards me. That's so long ago, we're both wearing Sony Walkman, you probably don't even know what that is, but someone

• 46:13Speaker 03

  Oh, I remember, listen to Backstreet Boys.

• 46:15Ed Mylett?

  Guess who's running towards me? Backstreet Boys. Wayne Dyer.

• 46:18Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 46:19Ed Mylett?

  Some of you don't know who he is, but he's on the Mount Rushmore of all-time great influence, so he's running towards me. Runs by me and I say, Dr. Dyer. And he hears me through his Walkman, I pull my, I said, you changed my life. And he goes, I doubt it.

• 46:34Ed Mylett?

  I bet you changed your life, but how did I help? And he walks up and kneels down and we sit on the beach, watch the sun come up for an hour and a half.

• 46:41Speaker 03

  Stop.

• 46:42Ed Mylett?

  And he ended up being my friend the rest of my life. You said when, you complimented him when we were off-camera about that I meet people where they are and that's because my hero, when I met him, did it for me. Anyway, at the end of the conversation, he goes, Ed, he goes, Eddie, he puts his arm on me, he goes, you're gonna change the world. And I thought I was the only person he ever said that to. I'm sure he had said it to others, but let me tell you why he said it. He goes, and Ed, I do think you're brilliant, which I'm not. And he goes, and by the way you communicate, I don't know that I've ever seen this before. And that's not why. And he goes, Ed, will you do me a favor and never attach your confidence to your abilities?

• 47:16Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 47:17Ed Mylett?

  Or your results, because they're gonna go up and down. He said, you'll be chasing that tail all your life, young man. He goes, Ed, let me tell you why you're gonna change the world. And I'm there, all ears.

• 47:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, locked in.

• 47:27Ed Mylett?

  He says, cuz you're a good man. He said, the power of your intentions, Ed.

• 47:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:33Ed Mylett?

  You intend to do well. He goes, by the way, you always won't.

• 47:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:37Ed Mylett?

  But your intentions are to help, your intentions, you're a good man. Do you know that that was the first compliment of my entire life, I believed?

• 47:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:46Ed Mylett?

  I never believed the other compliments. That, I thought, I am a pretty good person. And he, I didn't know, but he's writing a book at that time called The Power of Intentions, which I also recommend. And so, before I give a speech, before we do this podcast, before I walk into a boardroom, before I do anything, I remind myself, I'm a good man.

• 48:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:03Ed Mylett?

  My intentions are to serve, my intentions are to make a difference, and I do have very high self-confidence as a result of that. And you are the only person in 10 years and 900 episodes who's ever said that on the show first to me. That was really good.

• 48:18Speaker 03

  It is, that story just gave me, like, if people could have that moment, and I hope whoever's listening does, it's just like, that's it, that's all we got. I, my kind of gut check for this is, I always play peek-a-boo with babies in the grocery store. I'm like, if I'm waiting in line and there's a mom with a baby or something in the cart or I'm on a plane and the baby's like, I'm playing peek-a-boo. And for me, it is like, a grounding reminder of just like, life isn't that serious and just be the good person. Like, be the, I love when people like come up and like, you know, play with my kids

• 49:01Speaker 03

  when they're like being wild and I'm just like, be, play peek-a-boo.

• 49:07Ed Mylett?

  You are awesome.

• 49:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:08Ed Mylett?

  Okay, this is like one of these Holy Spirit-type interviews, I have to tell you why. So what you just said about peek-a-boo and have that child thing and life's not that serious. The other thing Wayne would do with me till the day he died, he's so funny, I would get worked up about things going on in life, right? And I'm stressed, Wayne and this or that, he was a dear friend. And he's, he would call me back and say, Ed, listen to me. And this is what he would say to me, row, row, row your boat gently down the stream, merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily. Ed, life is but a dream.

• 49:42Speaker 03

  My God.

• 49:43Ed Mylett?

  And he would say this to me, and by the way, I'm writing a book on it right now and I'm using it in my content, but it was the exact same reminder of playing peek-a-boo with yourself.

• 49:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:52Ed Mylett?

  Reminding you, this thing's just a dream.

• 49:54Speaker 03

  Life's not that

• 49:54Ed Mylett?

  Take it easy.

• 49:55Speaker 03

  Got it.

• 49:55Ed Mylett?

  Because he knew my tendency

• 49:57Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 49:57Ed Mylett?

  Was to get so wound up.

• 49:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:59Ed Mylett?

  Take it easy, Ed.

• 50:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:00Ed Mylett?

  Take it easy. He would be that person in my life, isn't that cute? Isn't that good?

• 50:03Speaker 03

  Sounds

• 50:04Ed Mylett?

  He was amazing.

• 50:04Speaker 03

  Delightful.

• 50:05Ed Mylett?

  And when you have that type of person in your life, you, you, most things in life are caught, not taught, you tend to want to become more that way yourself.

• 50:13Speaker 03

  Yes, exactly.

• 50:14Ed Mylett?

  As you get older.

• 50:14Speaker 03

  Can I give you a, one more thing that is on this that I think could be, could be helpful, at least on everything we're talking about? One of the biggest shifts that I think someone can make, I teach this shift, I came up with it as a public speaking tip, and the more I use it at companies, I'm like, this is just a life, career shift. There's two different types of speakers. There are spotlight speakers and lighthouse speakers. Spotlight speakers come up on stage, light is shining on them, they're asking themselves, how do I look? How do I sound? Do people like me? They're concerned with perception and perfection. That's how we've been trained to speak, you know, from spelling bees to whatever, we always, or like, public speaking is about us.

• 50:58Speaker 03

  But a lighthouse speaker shifts the light from themselves to their audience, or their listener, or the gro- baby in the grocery line. And if a spotlight asks, what does everyone think of me? A lighthouse asks, what does everyone need of me? And if you can go be a lighthouse onstage, where you're like, where are they at? What do they need? How can I help? Exactly what Wayne did for you, then you'll be okay. Whether that's public speaking, your job, your family, like, I always ask myself, when I am getting really just anxious, overwhelmed, stressed out, where am I shining my light right now?

• 51:40Ed Mylett?

  Very good.

• 51:41Speaker 03

  It's usually on me. And so, how can I shift from a spotlight to a lighthouse?

• 51:44Ed Mylett?

  Very good. Look at you, this is so good. What, you tell good stories.

• 51:50Speaker 03

  Oh, thanks.

• 51:51Ed Mylett?

  Do you think that that's part of being a great, like, when you're teaching these women to speak?

• 51:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:57Ed Mylett?

  Is the, is the, is the underlying foundation of it? I'm just, and if it's not, that's okay. Is, is part of it storytelling and being a great storyteller?

• 52:03Speaker 03

  So, the method I teach people, and this is actually for anyone listening, even if you're not a speaker, have a note sap in your phone, and call it moment to meaning. And what this is, is it's a technique that is great for speaking, but just for daily life, where take a moment that happened. You're in the Starbucks drive-through line, the car in front of you pays for your coffee, so you pay for the person behind you. That's a moment, that's a story. What's the meaning for someone else who wasn't in the Starbucks coffee line? Maybe kindness doesn't have to be applauded to be good. Like, you won't be able to thank that person. There are countless moments that happen in our day, big and small, that have tremendous meaning.

• 52:46Speaker 03

  And when we can start to kind of get that muscle of, here's the moment, here's the meaning, and that makes public speaking so much more accessible, because, I mean, a lesson without a story is just a lecture. No one wants that. And so, I think keynote speaking is, and, and just really any kind of great speaking, is the marriage of both story with lesson, a moment, and the meaning. But I think the key, and what I see a lot of speakers get wrong, is like, they think that the moment is, the audience is the same as their story. Oh, I'm a entrepreneur, so therefore I speak to other entrepreneurs. I am working finance, so I want to speak to other finance.

• 53:30Speaker 03

  I'm a mom, so I need to speak to other moms. When really, the best people who can learn from you are the ones who haven't walked into your shoes, and never will. And so, practicing, what's a moment I experienced, me, and how can I change, we? Like, what was the internal moment? And someone who has never experienced that, what can they learn from it?

• 53:51Ed Mylett?

  Very good.

• 53:52Speaker 03

  And so, the storytelling is a natural part of that, and I think is really important in just being able to meet people where they are, and also keep attention. Keeping attention is hard these days.

• 54:02Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, thank you for that. That's outstanding. I'm gonna use that, actually.

• 54:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, please.

• 54:06Ed Mylett?

  Really, really good. Let me ask you one more question on the speaking thing, because it, like, when people think of you, I think that's one of the first things they think of, is about your ability to teach people to speak. And off-camera, we were talking about, there's performative type speaking, right? Which, there's a place for, I suppose. Personally, Wayne, by the way, didn't ever, ever really raise his voice when he spoke.

• 54:29Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 54:30Ed Mylett?

  For me, when someone's that way, I tend to lean in. Now, you can't be monotone the entire time. But what's, you don't seem to have that style, and I don't either. What's the difference between, like, performative speaking, and what I think, what you're, some people, I think, that are, that teach it, it's almost like, they think they're on Broadway, or acting, or something. That's not speaking.

• 54:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:49Ed Mylett?

  That's acting. That's a whole other industry.

• 54:51Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 54:52Ed Mylett?

  Speaking is depth of connection with people, right? At least to me.

• 54:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:57Ed Mylett?

  What's the difference between that? Because I think a lot of people think, I can't speak, because they think it's almost like playing the guitar or singing, there's a performance happening here.

• 55:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:04Ed Mylett?

  I don't really, that, not, that, not, it's not that there isn't an exaggerated part of my personality that will come out from time to time, but I'm not performing, nor do I want to learn performance skills.

• 55:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:15Ed Mylett?

  Uh, to connect with people. That's not what I, how I look at it. How do you look at it?

• 55:19Speaker 03

  Some of the best speakers in the world, and you're one of them, and I bet, if you have like an OurRing, or something where you're tracking your heart rate, I bet that there's not that much of a change between standing in the green room and being out on that stage, right out there. Is that, do you feel like that's true?

• 55:32Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 55:33Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, I think that if you can be who you are, and confident enough who you are, offstage to onstage, not only are you gonna be just more relatable, because just like we were talking about, people want the 300,000, like, tell me the, the story that I can relate to. It's the same as how we're coming across. I mean, if you have this, just, like, I can't relate to that kind of performative, then you're gonna start to lose people. And so, I also say, speaking, for me, isn't the finish line, it's the starting block. I want speaking to lead to books, I want speaking to lead to this, meeting people.

• 56:13Speaker 03

  And if there is a role, I have to keep up in all these other things, that's exhausting.

• 56:19Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 56:20Speaker 03

  You know? Like, I feel so bad for some people who are like, played a character on TV, that everyone expects that character of them. And it's like, no, I am not, you know, like, that person, I'm me. And that's kind of like, if I'm gonna make it, I want to make it being me, because, one, I just, I think it's more fun that way, but two, I'm like, I don't have the energy to keep up a role in all these other rooms.

• 56:44Ed Mylett?

  You're so right. Hey, Amir, when I was younger, there was a different me up there.

• 56:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:49Ed Mylett?

  So draining, okay? I have to turn into this guy out there today.

• 56:52Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 56:53Ed Mylett?

  Like, I don't have to do that anymore. I just left the green room, and I've walked out, and I'm, I'm now me. All right, last question. By the way, I, I haven't done a lot of interviews where I'm like, I really wish we had more time.

• 57:02Speaker 03

  I know, same.

• 57:03Ed Mylett?

  I really, yeah, well, thank you. That makes me feel good, thank you. Speaking of energy, this is off speaking, off everything we've talked about, three-year-old, one-year-old.

• 57:11Speaker 03

  Oh, man.

• 57:12Ed Mylett?

  Okay? And I remember those days.

• 57:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:15Ed Mylett?

  I think probably added, being a mom over a dad, there's just stuff moms typically do, that dads don't always do.

• 57:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:23Ed Mylett?

  And so, unfortunately, women get asked this question more than men, but it's, I did ask it if you were a man as well, but like, that's a lot.

• 57:30Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:31Ed Mylett?

  Do you have a system or strategy, or are you just like, losing it all the time? Because life's crazy.

• 57:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:37Ed Mylett?

  Of that, put, put that, because a lot of people are saying, I'm not gonna start my second business, I'm not gonna start my career, because, almost like their kids are the excuse not to do something, right? Because my kids are this age. Well, what if, well, now my kids are teenagers. It's like, so, how do you hold all that in place and still have joy?

• 57:53Speaker 03

  Well, one, I appreciate the thoughtfulness of that question, because I am all for, ask me anything, but ask the man, too. I mean, there's so many times I get, well, like, who's watching your kids? They're dad.

• 58:05Ed Mylett?

  No one asks the guy that.

• 58:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 58:07Ed Mylett?

  I had Jessica Mendoza on for ESPN, and she says, I'm so glad you asked me it that way.

• 58:11Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 58:12Ed Mylett?

  Because she goes, I've noticed men don't get asked this question. I said, no, I'm asking the dudes, too.

• 58:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, I appreciate that.

• 58:16Ed Mylett?

  Right, at that age. But, but it is, let's, but if we're being honest, there are things with moms, I think, that are additionally.

• 58:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:24Ed Mylett?

  taxing and responsible.

• 58:25Speaker 03

  Oh, for sure.

• 58:26Ed Mylett?

  That is different for a dad.

• 58:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course.

• 58:28Ed Mylett?

  But, but the point being.

• 58:29Speaker 03

  Well, and I was sharing this with someone the other day. I, because, you know, right now, you know, book launch, we just had a conference, I'm on your show, there's so many great, kind of shiny, sparkly things in my career right now. People are like, you're on fire, how are you doing this? I'm like, childcare. I have, uh, my parents are close by, I didn't have any, um, you know, we have someone that helps clean our house, we have someone who helps, uh, comes and meal preps, and, so I think it's important to remember, all of the load that a lot of women and men carry, behind, like, every woman on fire is a village she could afford. I can afford this village right now, of all of this help in my house, so that I can come

• 59:14Speaker 03

  here and be with you, and that I can do this. But that's also a choice. Like, there's kind of, when you start to have a family, and, at least for me, I wasn't sure where the chips would fall, of, am I gonna want help in my career or at home? I'm gonna need help somewhere. Where is it gonna be? And I realized, with a lot of guilt that came with it, I'm being honest, that I wanted that help at home, because I really love building. And my husband and I had this conversation, because I always felt like, every time I got on a plane to speak, or any time there was work, and I had to say goodbye, it was, um, have to, not a get to.

• 59:53Ed Mylett?

  Hmm.

• 59:54Speaker 03

  And the way I was explaining it to my kids was like, I have to go, instead of, I get to go meet with this guy, Ed, I get to go speak onstage. So, we came to this conclusion, that I hope, and, any other working moms or dads can maybe feel free to take this, is my parenting philosophy now, is I want my kids to see me trying.

• 1:00:15Ed Mylett?

  Hmm.

• 1:00:16Speaker 03

  That is, I think, more important to me than any, you know, thing that I might be able to, like, sit down and tell them for five minutes, is they actually watched mommy try to build something. They, I brought my daughter to, like, and my son to this, you know, book launch event, and they, and, you know, they're one and three, they don't really get it now, but I'm like, no, they're gonna see me not just succeeding, but also not getting it.

• 1:00:43Ed Mylett?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:00:44Speaker 03

  And I want them to see it all, because they're watching me right now, wondering what's possible for them, and I want their answer to be anything.

• 1:00:53Ed Mylett?

  Very good. I, I've, I have to tell you, I've enjoyed this so much today.

• 1:00:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, I forgot we were recording, to be honest.

• 1:01:00Ed Mylett?

  Seriously. I lost myself in the conversation.

• 1:01:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, same.

• 1:01:03Ed Mylett?

  Uh, you're wonderful.

• 1:01:04Speaker 03

  Same to you, I appreciate it.

• 1:01:05Ed Mylett?

  Thank you, you're needed.

• 1:01:06Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:01:07Ed Mylett?

  Yeah. I'm gonna take you around the world.

• 1:01:10Speaker 03

  Do you have a valid passport?

• 1:01:12Ed Mylett?

  You don't need that anymore. Where, where can they find you, number one?

• 1:01:16Speaker 03

  Oh, uh, yes, you can find me, LinkedIn, Instagram, Jess Ekstrom, Making It Without Losing It, wherever books are sold. I do send out a text every Monday, that's just like a thought starter for your week, whether it's a quote or question. Text me the word hype to 704-228-9495, you can meet me there.

• 1:01:34Ed Mylett?

  Look at you, get that in there, that was good.

• 1:01:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:37Ed Mylett?

  You're a pro.

• 1:01:38Speaker 03

  Thanks.

• 1:01:39Ed Mylett?

  You're a pro. Wasn't this good, you guys? Don't you love this, when you get introduced to somebody new, and you're, she's already killing it, and making millions, and you're like, oh, if she was a stock, I'd be buying her, because it's gonna keep going up? Congratulations on your beautiful family and everything you're doing. Share it, you guys, share this episode. This is why we do the show, right here, what you experienced today. God bless you all, max out your life.

• 1:02:06Speaker 04

  This is The Ed Miliband Show.

• 1:02:12Speaker 05

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