Goodbye Windows 10, Hello Apple M5 Chip!

It was a jam-packed week of news this week. Marques, Andrew, and David start it off talking about the new YouTube collab feature before discussing the Xiaomi 17 Pro. After that, they talk about the new Apple M5 products, Netflix and Spotify teaming up for podcast distribution, and of course the end of Windows 10 (kind of?). Then they wrap it up with the Pixel 10 Pro Fold exploding in the newest JerryRigEverything video and an Honor concept phone. Enjoy! Links: Becca Farsace - One year on YouTube: https://youtu.be/CQhT2bZk-5w?si=DSDonmKOrjxidR-v MKBHD - Xiaomi 17 Pro: https://youtu.be/eou_g_cYCew?si=oOmjK0kJ_DuVwjrL JerryRigEverything - Pixel 10 Pro Fold video: https://youtu.be/8uS90jakOuw?si=mhBeKBu_gD0O9IAf Honor concept phone: https://www.theverge.com/news/799944/honor-robot-phone-tease-announcement This episode brought to you by: Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/waveform LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/mkbhd Framer: https://www.framer.com/design (code: WAVE) Music provided by Epidemic Sound Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Social: Waveform Threads: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Waveform Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waveformpodcast/?hl=en Hosts: Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Andrew Manganelli?

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, host Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring your fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting, and what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episodes and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from, but when that context is scattered across tools, threads, and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying blind. That's the problem that Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all these pieces together, from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more, so nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by

• 1:14Speaker 01

  who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com. That's J-I-R-A dot com.

• 1:21Andrew Manganelli?

  I feel like there's gotta be a reason they're not bringing Clippy back. Is there like a weird copyright or like trademark thing that they lost, or?

• 1:27Speaker 02

  It seems like an alley-oop to me.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  No, but we hate him so much, we want him back now. It's easy to make fun of, but it's got a, it's endearing.

• 1:35David Imel?

  Instead of Copilot, they could have just done Clippy, and everyone would have loved it.

• 1:39Andrew Manganelli?

  It could have been awful, and we would have been like, yeah, but it's Clippy.

• 1:42David Imel?

  It's Clippy.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  Give him a chance.

• 1:43David Imel?

  He was bad originally, too.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  He's got a face.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  Yo, what is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts, I'm Marques.

• 1:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm Andrew.

• 1:56David Imel?

  And I'm David.

• 1:57Speaker 01

  This week, we, well, it's still Techtober, so we still have a lot going on. We tested the YouTube collab feature in more than one way. We also have possibly a Phone of the Year in the house, or at least a really interesting one. Also, new M5 chip and some new devices that it is in from Apple. Goodbye to Windows 10 and exploding phone. A lot of places we could go to start this podcast.

• 2:19Andrew Manganelli?

  There are.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:21Andrew Manganelli?

  But first, the way I think we will go.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 2:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Did you guys see Becca's video after of like her first year as a creator?

• 2:28Speaker 01

  I did.

• 2:28Andrew Manganelli?

  I think everyone watched it.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  Friend of hers, yeah, she's been on the pod.

• 2:31Andrew Manganelli?

  She's been on the pod and her episode was great, but I just wanted to toss it out there because like, I think our audience, one, loves tech YouTube and two, a lot of them are probably like interested in making tech YouTube content. And she just like did this really well thought out video of her first year as a full-time creator and how much money she's made and how she's made it and what's it been like creating in that scenario.

• 2:53Speaker 04

  And she teased her merch, which I want so bad.

• 2:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, me too.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  I can see that, yeah.

• 2:57David Imel?

  The merch is really good. I've seen it.

• 2:58Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm sure it will be fantastic.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 3:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Uh, but I just think it's a must-watch video and everyone, most of our audience, I think, would thoroughly enjoy. If you're not following her already, you should, even if you don't go watch that video.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  I think that's easy. I have such a good segue.

• 3:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  In that video, she talks about like her arc of her first year of being an independent creator where she was, she monetized her channel with the ads that are built into YouTube and then she also proceeded to start doing brand deals and how she goes through that process. And that, I talked about that exact arc in the Adam Misery interview where creators on all platforms kind of go through a similar arc. You start with the built-in monetization tools on the platform. And then as you expand and as you grow, you can start to have an audience big enough to maybe do your own ads and reach your audience independently with, for an individual company.

• 3:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Hmm.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  Uh, so the Adam Misery interview is the next thing that we can mention, at least because we were talking about YouTube collab feature.

• 3:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  YouTube collabs, uh, are a thing now. You can collaborate actually between multiple creators, I think, on one channel, but we've tested it for a couple.

• 4:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Wasn't Mr. Beast's first one with like a hundred creators?

• 4:08David Imel?

  I thought it was Mark Grover and only.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  I've seen a couple.

• 4:10Andrew Manganelli?

  I thought it was Mark Grover over, but he started adding to it. I thought.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 4:13Andrew Manganelli?

  I could very well be wrong about that, but yes, you can definitely go up to four at least.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, you've seen this in the past, like on Instagram, you can have more than one person have the same post in their feed and they'll all be quote, responsible for the same post.

• 4:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  It works a similar way on YouTube, but we found out, and actually I've, I've done this with a couple of older videos and now a couple of newer videos, just to learn how this works. We found out exactly how it works. If I have already uploaded a video and I add another creator as a collaborator, that creator's audience will see that video in their recommended and they get to see that creator. You can share like analytics with them and they can see like how the video is doing and things like that. So I've had a couple of older videos, like the collab we did with the Dyson headphones with Dr. Mike, where he comes in and explains why they're a terrible idea. Like I added him as a collaborator on that. His audience can potentially now start to see that video in their recommended, as if it was uploaded by his channel.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  But also, if it's a new enough video, it shows up in the sub box too. So it doesn't show up on your channel if you're a collaborator, but it shows up in the sub box for your audience if you accept as a collaborator. So we did this with the newest waveform episode interviewing Adam Masary, because I've interviewed tech executives before and this was, it felt like a great opportunity to try that collab feature. And we did this with a studio video, which was our like 45 minute epic, how we make high quality videos, walking through the process from beginning to end. And the whole post-production.

• 5:46Andrew Manganelli?

  This is post-production, yeah, because it's the second version of one.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, and got a lot more feedback on the podcast version, because I think the podcast audience or our channel audience on a brand new video didn't expect a podcast as much as the studio video seemed to fit in. Got a lot more feedback on the podcast, so hearing that loud and clear, but.

• 6:05Andrew Manganelli?

  For sure. I think one of the things was, so we at first didn't realize it goes into the subscription feed.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:11Andrew Manganelli?

  I personally didn't know that many people still use the subscription feed. I very rarely use it on my TV, but I think, I guess, just my algorithm is pretty dialed into what I like to watch. So I usually just am on the homepage. I do think podcasts got a little more flack because we went studio channel podcast and it was the second one that showed up in people's feeds that wasn't from MKBHD.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  Fair enough, yeah.

• 6:35Andrew Manganelli?

  So people were much more adamant about telling us like, I don't want to see this garbage.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Each of those uploads were uploaded to the other channel and then MKBHD channel was added as a collaborator. Instead of vice versa. So it was showing up on MKBHD subscribers, subscription boxes. When they were not subscribed to those, those channels, which there's a valid argument, I think for both sides. Like if I'm a creator and I think that the content I'm making on this other channel is different enough to warrant a different channel for a different audience with different subscribers. Then, okay, yeah, it makes sense that people don't want both of those things on one feed. But also if it's a good enough overlap, you know, you can see sometimes that collaboration feels a little more natural. So yeah, work sometimes.

• 7:19Andrew Manganelli?

  I thought my, my thoughts on it were, I thought the Missouri interview was very similar to like talking tech stuff. That has been on main channel before and it's a bonus. It's not just a regular episode. So that's why we thought it would be fun. The studio one was like, pretty much how the team here edits main channel videos. So it felt like a good connection between them.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:39Andrew Manganelli?

  I think people might think we were going to do this with every single post, which was never the plan, but we also now definitely are, will never do that.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:47Andrew Manganelli?

  I saw a lot of people saying like, I know the waveform, I know the podcast exists and I just don't want to listen to podcasts, but like, you have 20 million subs on the main channel, doing that collab difference between a 500 sub channel, 500,000 sub channel and a 20 million. Like there are plenty of your audience that don't know we exist. So every once in a while, like getting that is beneficial as like.

• 8:08Speaker 01

  When it makes sense.

• 8:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. When it makes sense. So.

• 8:10Speaker 04

  Yeah. Personally, I was just confused because Marquez could have easily uploaded this on his channel and tagged waveform as a collab. And I don't think we would have gotten the blowback.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think if we, so if I had done this, like when I typically had done all those, executive tech company person interviews in the past, it wouldn't have like the waveform bumper and then it wouldn't be in the podcast set. So I think when people saw that they were like more heightened alert to the fact that it was a podcast versus if I had just jumped in and it was 30 minutes instead of 45 and it just felt like another one of those videos, it might've felt different. The thumbnail is also in the waveform style. So I think they're just more aware of it in certain cases. But I do agree, like that's the, I, coming out of that interview, I felt like, oh, this is something that feels in the style of. The other tech executive interviews, which made it a good opportunity for a collab.

• 8:59Andrew Manganelli?

  It's also funny because all the comments on this will probably be like, I saw no issue because none of the waveform listeners are gonna listen to this episode and hear us complain about it and it doesn't really matter.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  Well, here's your PSA. Go, go listen to it. Go check it out.

• 9:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  It's pretty good, I think.

• 9:15Andrew Manganelli?

  I thought it was pretty good.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. But yeah, we, that's, that's more about the, yeah, we have to check out this phone. You haven't seen this phone yet, right?

• 9:21David Imel?

  I have not actually seen it yet.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Have you seen the video about it?

• 9:23David Imel?

  Yes.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  Okay. So this is the Xiaomi 17 Pro Max.

• 9:27David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 9:28Andrew Manganelli?

  God, I want it.

• 9:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. So the thing about this phone.

• 9:31David Imel?

  Yeah. Do you have the Game Boy case for it?

• 9:33Speaker 01

  I, I don't have it with me. It's a, we have one for the Pro, so it's too small to actually put on the, on the phone.

• 9:37David Imel?

  Oh, really?

• 9:38Speaker 01

  So I, this is the Pro Max phone and we have the case for the Pro.

• 9:40David Imel?

  Got it.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Either way.

• 9:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Me when I see this phone?

• 9:43Speaker 01

  So this phone, I mean, Xiaomi has been doing their Hyper OS, what is it called? Hyper OS?

• 9:49David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  For a while where it has lots of cues and things that remind you of iOS, right?

• 9:57David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  And that's fine. They've done it for years. Some people like it, some people don't. But this year, more than ever.

• 10:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  More obviously than ever, they just connected it directly to the latest iPhones.

• 10:09David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  They changed the name of the phone.

• 10:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  It's the, it's the 17 Pro, 17 Pro Max.

• 10:13David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  Uh, and they have the same shape as the iPhone. They have the same similar shape of the camera bump as the iPhone. They did a whole bunch of things to like line it up with the iPhones.

• 10:23David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  The comparison writes itself.

• 10:25David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 10:26Speaker 01

  But the phone itself is really, really good.

• 10:29David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  And a lot of things about it that the iPhone doesn't do are some of my favorite things about it, like the screen on the back, the cameras, the, the actual images that came out of this. I'm curious, and I'm gonna hand it to you right now, what you think of it, like holding it. It's lighter than the 17 Pro Max.

• 10:43Andrew Manganelli?

  It's concerningly light.

• 10:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's lighter than the iPhone. Uh, it's got a 7,500 milliamp hour silicon carbon battery inside with a hundred watt charging, 50 watt wireless charging.

• 10:55David Imel?

  Literally the same size.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. 22 and a half watt reverse wireless charging. So it'll basically be a battery bank to your iPhone and fill it from zero to 100. Kinda sick.

• 11:06David Imel?

  7500 watts.

• 11:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, 7500 million watts. It's also triple 50 megapixel.

• 11:11David Imel?

  That'd be bad.

• 11:12Speaker 01

  Triple 50 megapixel cameras, uh, which is

• 11:16David Imel?

  Triple?

• 11:16Speaker 01

  Convenient. Yeah, the bottom one is the ultra wide. It's, it kinda doesn't look like triple, but that's the ultra wide.

• 11:21David Imel?

  That does not look like a camera. What happens when you're holding it like this?

• 11:24Speaker 01

  You can

• 11:25David Imel?

  Does your finger show up in the photo?

• 11:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can kinda cover the ultra wide a little bit if you're not careful. What I will say though is the main camera is pretty wide. So the ultra wide doesn't feel that much wider. It's like a 23 millimeter equivalent.

• 11:39David Imel?

  The sharpening is a little much.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  And it's very processed. Yeah, the processing from the photos is pretty serious.

• 11:45David Imel?

  It get, yeah.

• 11:46Speaker 01

  But then it like flattens out and processes.

• 11:48David Imel?

  Right, it gets way, that's funny because iPhone photos generally, the preview looks terrible.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:54David Imel?

  And you take it and it gets, it gets, you know, a little bit better.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:57David Imel?

  This one, everything looks super over sharpened. Then you take the photo and then it smoothes out.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. So the photos, I think, looked pretty good.

• 12:05David Imel?

  The photos look good, yeah.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. Uh, so the cameras are good, the battery is good, the screen is good, the design is good. And then there's a screen on the back, which has been evolving the exact same way that flipping phones have, which we had, we had the like tiny postage stamp one, which is just like the time. And then it got a little bigger and then you could like take selfies with it. Now it's a whole full width thing with the camera cutouts and you can play games on it if you're really into that. But the phone itself, like for being cheaper than the iPhone is, it is a really compelling

• 12:35David Imel?

  Yeah, what is the price?

• 12:37Speaker 01

  So it's in China only. This model is roughly an $850 equivalent for the 17 Pro Max. So that's like noticeably cheaper than the iPhone.

• 12:44David Imel?

  Does it have a lot more, do it have more storage?

• 12:46Speaker 01

  It has 16 gigs of RAM. This one has a terabyte of storage, so it's definitely more than the base.

• 12:50David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  But it is, it is a seriously well-equipped device.

• 12:54David Imel?

  It does feel kinda just like an iPhone with the extra bezel. What's funny is that the, a lot of people are speculating because there was this leaked, it was not a leaked video, it was a render that came out that showed this, what is, they call this the plateau on the iPhone.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:10David Imel?

  They showed it like flipping sideways and it was just, it was a crappy render.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:15David Imel?

  But it like flipped sideways and there's a screen underneath and that's literally what this is. I mean, it doesn't flip, but there is a screen there.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  The whole screen on the back.

• 13:22David Imel?

  That's crazy. And it's like a full interface that you can do things with.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  I think this is exactly how Apple would do it. So you're, what you're doing now, you're like holding, holding it down and like swiping between watch faces. I keep thinking there are watch faces, but they're not a watch.

• 13:34Speaker 04

  It feels like watch faces.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  It's just clock faces. Yeah. And then there's a whole personalization on the phone. So you can change the colors and like mess with different sizes of fonts and things like that.

• 13:45David Imel?

  That one is, no, the one to the left is literally the new Apple Watch. Literally the new Apple Watch font.

• 13:52Speaker 04

  Like the font font is extremely similar.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  And the thumbnail. Yeah.

• 13:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  So this is, this is a really good phone. It's also one of the first phones with the Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5. Uh, ridiculously quick.

• 14:03David Imel?

  Why did they put 120 hertz on the back display?

• 14:06Speaker 01

  The back display is 120 hertz, 3500 nits, like full, full, high quality, high resolution, three inch corner, corner.

• 14:14David Imel?

  Like I get why it's OLED to use what less power since you're going to use that as an ambient clock, but the fact that it's 120 hertz just feels overkill.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  Beautiful. I love it.

• 14:22David Imel?

  I mean, yes.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 14:23David Imel?

  It's great.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  I've taken more selfies on this phone than I have in like the last year of other phones, I think.

• 14:28David Imel?

  And the software, it looks like it's trying to copy Apple, but it, does it do a?

• 14:32Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, a lot of, a lot of the stock apps feel like Apple apps, like the, the settings app, the camera app, a lot of the stuff, the weather app, the calendar, they look like the notes app. They all look like Apple clones and that's fine for some people. They, they're just as functional.

• 14:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  If you have a Xiaomi account, you log in, everything syncs, but.

• 14:49Speaker 04

  I have a question.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:50Speaker 04

  The dynamic island, it seems to have the same like kind of animation when you get a notification and stuff.

• 14:55Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 14:56Speaker 04

  Does it have the same persistent animation when you're like playing a song like on Spotify or something?

• 15:00Speaker 01

  Well, Google like added that to Android.

• 15:03David Imel?

  That got added to a lot of Android phones.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  It's like Android in general.

• 15:06David Imel?

  Yeah. So when you're charging, it just stays there. And when you're playing media, it stays there. If you open the music app, you can play it.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  It might not be out yet.

• 15:14David Imel?

  Uh, Pixel doesn't have it, but if you open on Samsung phone, if you, if you have music playing, you'll see the same.

• 15:20Speaker 04

  But Samsung also has it like towards the bottom, right? Like the.

• 15:23David Imel?

  The Now Bar.

• 15:25Speaker 01

  But it also has at the top like a literal dynamic island clone. This one is even more of a clone.

• 15:30David Imel?

  Okay, speaking of Apple clones, have you guys seen this Magic OS X video on Threads?

• 15:35Andrew Manganelli?

  It's so good.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  Magic OS X.

• 15:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, you haven't seen this yet?

• 15:39David Imel?

  Okay.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  No?

• 15:40David Imel?

  Just watch this on my screen.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 15:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, so it's literally just the super transparent icons.

• 15:47David Imel?

  Guys, everything about it, literally everything about it. You can change the transparency, though, it seems. There's like a slider. Yeah, so it turns into liquid and then glass and then there's diffraction.

• 15:59Andrew Manganelli?

  And there's all the settings panels and then the app icons.

• 16:02Speaker 01

  Guys, that's not even, it's the same icon.

• 16:05David Imel?

  The time, the time like warps. Yeah, everything about it, even the Siri animation at the bottom, the airdrop animation.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  We still haven't said what this is.

• 16:14David Imel?

  Well, it's, okay, Magic OS X, it's Honor's new.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  UI.

• 16:17David Imel?

  UI.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  So you're looking at like a clone of Liquid Glass?

• 16:20David Imel?

  It looks almost exactly the same.

• 16:22Andrew Manganelli?

  It's a teaser of, of their new operating system and it looks exactly like Liquid Glass. And when I was first watching this, I was like, okay, everyone's gonna go the glass thing. This seems pretty blatant. But there's one specific shot in that where I was like, I've seen that shot before, the icon. So what I did was I ripped the, uh, that teaser and part of the announcement for Liquid Glass from Apple, and I put them back to back. So I'm gonna show both of you guys. What's happening in these is there's an app icon with a bunch of different colors and they look like pieces of glass falling onto an app icon.

• 16:58David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 16:58Andrew Manganelli?

  So this is, you'll be able to tell which it is because they figure it goes into the, um, the apps next to it. But these are almost identical.

• 17:08David Imel?

  So this is the, this is the Magic OS.

• 17:10Andrew Manganelli?

  This is the Magic OS one.

• 17:12David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 17:12Andrew Manganelli?

  And then this is the Apple.

• 17:14David Imel?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 17:15Andrew Manganelli?

  We can play this in the video, but.

• 17:17David Imel?

  That's what I'm saying. Literally almost identical.

• 17:18Andrew Manganelli?

  It's essentially two app icons that have a bunch of colors, kind of creating almost like a pedal.

• 17:23David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 17:24Andrew Manganelli?

  That look exactly the same. Yeah, and the, um, the colored glass falls down and swirls around into it. It is.

• 17:30David Imel?

  Yeah, the Siri animation is exactly the same. The, the airdrop animation is exactly the same. Yeah.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  You know what's funny? When you point this out, like when I point this out on the Xiaomi video, for example, there's, there's like two different camps of thought. One of them is like. You know, they've been doing this forever. This isn't copying Apple. Like, there's actually people who are defending the originality of what is going on here. And then there's other people who are like, why bother ripping it off? Like, I'm never gonna buy the ripoff. You're just ripping off the thing that I already like. So this just feels like a second-rate version. So why would this ever work?

• 18:04Speaker 02

  You know what I think it is? Apple has the kind of money to, and Google as well, but they have the kind of money to do all of the like, market research and user experience testing to like, figure things out in a way that these other companies don't even want to bother.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  It's interesting. I mean, I think some of it comes down to like, market dominance in certain ways. Like, we made the switching video about how like, it appears that they copy each other a lot of ways, just to make potential customers more comfortable. So even if you're Xiaomi, you have billions of dollars. Xiaomi is an enormous company. They make washing machines and cars. Like, they have the money to do the testing, but they also know that if they're going to steal customers-

• 18:42Speaker 02

  That's to feel familiar.

• 18:42Speaker 01

  They have to feel at least approachable and familiar to the people who use it.

• 18:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  So that ends up looking like what we're seeing.

• 18:50Speaker 02

  My favorite tech book of the year, Apple in China.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:54Speaker 02

  Talks a lot about this. And it's specifically about how, I don't know if it's still the case in 2025, but for a long time, the iPhone really was this like, giant status symbol in China. And even though it only makes up less than 25% of smartphone market share in China, I think it is sort of hailed as like, a flagship market leader, and it is the thing to capture. And then also, the thing that I think sheds a lot of light on like, a lot of Chinese phones looking like the iPhone, is so much of Apple's iPhone development happens in China now, at China, either like, in Chinese factories where they're developing the techniques to build it, or in Apple's like, offices in China. And so, it's not

• 19:39Speaker 02

  like they don't have access now to the same infrastructure and tools to make such similar phones.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  Well, hey, speaking of Apple, Apple actually did drop a new thing, several new things this week, as we sort of expected. And there was rumors leading up to it, but they did it. M5. We have an M5 chip and three new devices that it will be shipping in right from the get-go.

• 20:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Can we pause and thank Apple for releasing these first thing in the morning on Wednesday?

• 20:06Speaker 01

  Oh, appreciate that.

• 20:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Because of our entire podcast.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  I'm not saying they did this for us, but I'm not not saying that either.

• 20:14Andrew Manganelli?

  I just, the, the chance of this releasing at 2pm today or tomorrow was so high.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:20Andrew Manganelli?

  All of us were like, please, if this comes out this week, we want to talk about it.

• 20:23Speaker 01

  They dropped it at 9am ET, which is 6am PT, and they love to do stuff at 10am PT.

• 20:29Andrew Manganelli?

  They love to make our lives miserable.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:31Andrew Manganelli?

  So thanks for not doing it for once.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  We won't be late this week.

• 20:33David Imel?

  Thank you, Jaws.

• 20:34Speaker 01

  We have the new stuff. So they, so there's three, three devices. The M5 will show up in the new iPad Pro, the new MacBook Pro, and the new Vision Pro.

• 20:42David Imel?

  But only the 14-inch base MacBook Pro.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, so let's go through them one by one. MacBook Pro, as you mentioned. MacBook Pro has before today, M4, M4 Pro, M4 Max. This M5 is just the base M5, so it's replacing the M4. There is still an M4 Pro and an M4 Max above.

• 21:00David Imel?

  Also only in the 14-inch.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  In the 14-inch, exactly, because the 15, the 16-inch starts with the M4 Pro now.

• 21:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's already getting confusing.

• 21:09David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  Essentially, anywhere where you would see just a base M4 chip, that's where you're slotting in M5.

• 21:17David Imel?

  Except for the MacBook Air.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  Other than iMac and MacBook Air.

• 21:20David Imel?

  And the regular iPad.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  And the regular iPad Air.

• 21:22Andrew Manganelli?

  It's starting to sound like a prescription medicine.

• 21:25David Imel?

  You should probably ask your doctor before you buy an M5 Pro.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  There's a legitimate question, like, why didn't they just wait until they had everything ready and then drop it all at once? I don't know if there's a good answer for that, but yeah, this is just 14-inch MacBook Pro.

• 21:39David Imel?

  Baseline.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  Base M4. That's now base M5. What do you get out of that? A little bit more GPU, a little bit better on-device AI processing.

• 21:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Marquez, it ushers in the biggest, it ushers in the biggest leap in AI performance for Apple silicon ever.

• 21:53David Imel?

  They said that last year, though.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  It's true. They have done most of their improvements between M4 and M5 in the GPU and neural engine.

• 22:01David Imel?

  That's what they said last year. That's what they said for M4.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  I think when they say that, you can also infer that the CPU improvements are not as big and not as much of a focus.

• 22:11David Imel?

  And that the stock price will go up.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  But yeah, that they, for people who have on-device AI processing workloads or tasks that they specifically want to do better, then that jump between M4 and M5 will be the most noticeable for that person.

• 22:25David Imel?

  With, for the baseline chip.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  For the baseline chip.

• 22:29David Imel?

  The most.

• 22:30Speaker 01

  For the least likely person to use this.

• 22:32David Imel?

  The people that need the stuff that this is better at are gonna get the better ones when they come out.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  M5 Pro.

• 22:37David Imel?

  Why would they buy the baseline MacBook Pro?

• 22:41Speaker 01

  It's a great question.

• 22:42David Imel?

  They're gonna buy the Max or the Ultra if it ever comes to the-

• 22:44Andrew Manganelli?

  It's just a little appetizer for the main course.

• 22:47David Imel?

  Which is the Vision Pro.

• 22:48Andrew Manganelli?

  M5 Pro.

• 22:49David Imel?

  Which is the, the main course is the Vision Pro with M5.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  Apparently battery life gets a lot better, too. 24 hour battery life in the new 14 inch MacBook Pro. M5.

• 22:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Base.

• 22:57David Imel?

  All day.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  Base. It's pretty good.

• 22:58David Imel?

  24 is all day.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's all, it's a literal all day.

• 23:01David Imel?

  Once they hit 25 hours, we can say more than all day.

• 23:04Andrew Manganelli?

  This, they just did this with the iPhone, too, didn't they? Where, or was it with the Apple Watch where they've been doing all day, all day? But then a couple of them are 24 hours and now it's like, now I really have no idea what all day.

• 23:14David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 23:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Specifically referencing.

• 23:16David Imel?

  24 hours. All day is probably from when you wake up to when you go to sleep.

• 23:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. Now it's really all day.

• 23:21Speaker 02

  Does all day change in the wintertime? Cause the sun is out for less.

• 23:25David Imel?

  I mean, it does get colder.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  All day asterisk, only in winter.

• 23:28David Imel?

  When it, I mean, when it gets colder, your phone battery is worse.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  But that's fine, cause there's way less daylight, so it's still all day.

• 23:35David Imel?

  Exactly. It evens out.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  Unless you wake up later.

• 23:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  No, you wake up at the same time, even if it's not light out.

• 23:42David Imel?

  It's darker.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  Anyway.

• 23:44Andrew Manganelli?

  The sun.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, all day, hashtag when the sun is out. No, yeah, so MacBook Pro gets those minimal improvements. iPad Pro also gets the minimal improvements. I think it also gets the C1X modem, that's new for the iPad Pro.

• 23:55David Imel?

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  Uh, so a little more GPU, a little more on-device AI processing. Why are you doing this on your iPad? I don't know, but you're that guy on the commercial who does it. So congrats, new M5 chip. And then the Vision Pro. Vision Pro got a couple of things.

• 24:09David Imel?

  Why?

• 24:09Speaker 01

  So the Vision Pro had, was it M2 before this?

• 24:13David Imel?

  Yes.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  Now it's M5, so theoretically a bigger overall, uh, processing and GPU improvement. So it actually has a couple of other things that they mentioned specifically should be better. It's rendering more pixels at once, so the foveated rendering, it's like 10% more pixels are sharper, which is, I mean, that's pretty nice. It should be a higher refresh rate, should be just overall crisper and-

• 24:37David Imel?

  It said 120 hertz, right?

• 24:39Speaker 01

  Up to 120 hertz refresh rate, looking at your surroundings.

• 24:42David Imel?

  It's good.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  So that's nice. Yeah. Um, and then slightly better battery life. And there's a new dual knit band.

• 24:50David Imel?

  Yes.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  Goes around. So the knit band before just went around the back of your head. This dual knit band has a knit band around the back and then a knit band around the top.

• 24:57David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  And then you can adjust both.

• 24:59David Imel?

  So for context, they released the standard knit band that goes around the back. And then people said, oh, this really hurts my head. So then they released the top band. And the top band is an additional attachment.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  Cause the weight distribution was all messed up.

• 25:11David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  So the back knit band was the aesthetic one for the commercials.

• 25:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  But when you wear it, it's like, it's like pulling it up against your face and all the weight is hanging against the brow.

• 25:21David Imel?

  Yeah, the, the bridge of your nose.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  And so people, it looked really cool, but it was like uncomfortable to wear. The ugly one that has the strap over the top of your head would lift that weight off of your brow.

• 25:31David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 25:31Speaker 01

  Sorry. Yeah. Lifted the weight off of your brow. So it wasn't as pretty for the commercials, but it was more comfortable to wear for a longer period of time because the weight distribution.

• 25:40David Imel?

  And now they've released the dual knit band, which looks like the first original cool looking one, but with a band over the top. The irony is that it is $99 and they are still selling the other two. So now all three of the bands are $99 and there's only one you should buy.

• 25:57Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 25:58David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 25:58Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, but two knits is just not bright enough. I really think.

• 26:03David Imel?

  Hey, if I'm in bed at night.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  That's a pun, guys.

• 26:08David Imel?

  I know.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  That's a, it's a joke.

• 26:09David Imel?

  It was pretty funny.

• 26:09Speaker 01

  It's a good pun.

• 26:10David Imel?

  That was a good one.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:11David Imel?

  Alice is getting good.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  I thought it's getting good. I've been on this podcast for three years. I have three years of bangers here.

• 26:18David Imel?

  That's his first good joke. He's on the, he's on the right track.

• 26:21Speaker 02

  I did Google drive.

• 26:23David Imel?

  That's what you think.

• 26:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. So you can buy the new, you can buy the new knit band for your old Vision Pro. You're old. Have you guys used Vision Pro in a while?

• 26:30David Imel?

  I used it to check a 360 video for a friend who was doing it for a client.

• 26:34Speaker 04

  I want to use it for the NBA games this season.

• 26:37David Imel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  I did see that.

• 26:38Speaker 04

  There's going to be a couple of them on there.

• 26:39David Imel?

  Just announced that.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  I'm going to try.

• 26:41David Imel?

  They just announced the first live sports coming to Vision Pro.

• 26:43Speaker 01

  Wait, the first? When this came out, weren't they like touting this first stuff?

• 26:48David Imel?

  They were promising. Yeah. But it's live.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  Where have you been now? This is how it all goes and how it is.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  I mean, this is.

• 26:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Can't wait to see this in the 2027 season.

• 26:56David Imel?

  Isn't this exactly what you said like you would buy this for?

• 26:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I want to be able to sit courtside at the Lakers game, but not be there, but still, but still look around and appreciate and maybe even switch cameras. Maybe there's one on the baseline.

• 27:12David Imel?

  Say hi to Shaq.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  Other side, I switched to half court and stuff like that.

• 27:14Andrew Manganelli?

  How much are courtside tickets usually?

• 27:16Speaker 02

  In LA? I don't know if you could buy them.

• 27:18David Imel?

  A Vision Pro every time.

• 27:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Every time. I was just wondering, is about a Vision Pro time? That's the funny thing about basketball is how popular some of the players are. It seems like, I remember, I still don't know if this is a rumor, but when the Nets were still in Newark, there was a potentially a promotion where if you got Nets tickets, you could get a reversible jersey that had the Nets and another team.

• 27:41Andrew Manganelli?

  That might be fake, but that's how unpopular the Nets were in New Jersey.

• 27:45David Imel?

  I was Nets fan for years. I mean, they were a good team. They were a playoff team. They went to the finals.

• 27:49Andrew Manganelli?

  They went to the finals in like 2000, right?

• 27:52David Imel?

  It's a good team. Is Shaq still on the Lakers? Cause I feel like if you're watching.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  Shaq still on the Lakers?

• 27:57David Imel?

  Is he?

• 27:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Did you say, yes, Ellis?

• 27:59David Imel?

  I feel like if you're watching.

• 28:00Speaker 02

  Guys, don't ruin this. Yeah, he's totally.

• 28:01David Imel?

  If you're watching it in Vision Pro.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:04David Imel?

  You would have to look really high up to see him. That'd be cool.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 28:07David Imel?

  That's.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  He'd be towering over you.

• 28:10Andrew Manganelli?

  He plays the game in an intermission, does the general commercials.

• 28:13David Imel?

  Yeah. I know he's not on the team anymore. I was making that. That was making jokes. But I did see him in Staples a couple of days ago. He's still.

• 28:20Speaker 02

  Staples Center, because he plays for the Los Angeles Lakers.

• 28:24David Imel?

  He.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  No.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  We don't call it that.

• 28:27David Imel?

  He is still, he is still, there are still big cardboard cutouts of Shaq at Staples with a printer for some reason.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 28:33David Imel?

  He's really letting it loose.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  He's running out of Shaq food money.

• 28:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Printer companies are like, we can make this work on wifi or get a Shaq cutout in every Staples.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  Or buy a failed AI pen company.

• 28:49David Imel?

  Yes.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  True. HP does make printers, don't they?

• 28:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 28:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. What do you think the P stands for?

• 28:54David Imel?

  Well, HP, my first computer ever was an HP.

• 28:57Speaker 04

  Mine too.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I started this YouTube channel with HP Pavilion DV7.

• 29:03David Imel?

  At a Dell. It was thick.

• 29:05Speaker 04

  Mine was a Sony Vio.

• 29:06David Imel?

  Vio?

• 29:07Speaker 01

  Vio.

• 29:07Speaker 04

  And I did not start a YouTube channel with it.

• 29:09Speaker 01

  I still, I have a place in my heart for HP. I was about to say HTC, that's another place in my heart.

• 29:14David Imel?

  HTC.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  HP, for those old Sony, for those old.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  You guys are putting all these old nostalgic names in my head. For these old HP Pavilion laptops, I still like them. But yeah, they did make printers and they definitely aren't good.

• 29:27David Imel?

  They do still make them.

• 29:29Speaker 01

  And now they own, humane, wow. Full circle.

• 29:34Speaker 04

  How did we get here from Vision Pro?

• 29:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:36Speaker 04

  Oh, because you brought up Shaq and Staples.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  Vision Pro, yeah.

• 29:39David Imel?

  Sorry, sorry.

• 29:39Speaker 01

  Anyway, yes, I would love to watch in the new Vision Pro and even higher fidelity courtside live NBA game in League Pass.

• 29:47David Imel?

  Are you gonna do it?

• 29:48Speaker 01

  This year, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna, I'm dust off my Vision Pro and I'm gonna watch, I'm not even gonna upgrade, I'm gonna use my old crusty old Vision Pro and watch those games.

• 29:56Speaker 04

  Do you think that? Have one in the studio?

• 29:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, we do. We have one here too.

• 29:58Speaker 04

  I'm borrowing that one.

• 29:59David Imel?

  Do you think that people will actually buy Vision Pro for this?

• 30:02Speaker 01

  No, but that's the thing is like, there is not that much content for Vision Pro, but Apple has been continuing this slow drip of content.

• 30:10David Imel?

  Right.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  Of potential reasons to, it's not a reason to buy Vision Pro, but it's a reason to keep using Vision Pro.

• 30:16David Imel?

  Yeah, until it has an actual use.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, so when you first, if you first got Vision Pro when it first came out and all the content was available at once, and then you had nothing new for a year, you just wouldn't use it very much, I think. So if they continue to slowly drip new content, new shows, and new experiences, then it keeps it feeling fresh.

• 30:35Speaker 04

  Like if live sports could keep the cable boxes going. It might work with Vision Pro. Problem is how, oh, never mind. It's how local sports is keeping, it's fucking brutal.

• 30:44David Imel?

  Yeah, also the boomers are not gonna be using Vision Pro and they're all the ones with cable, right? Or do you guys have cable?

• 30:50Speaker 01

  You have.

• 30:50Speaker 04

  You like kinda need cable for a lot of local sports and it's.

• 30:53David Imel?

  You can't just use YouTube TV or whatever. The Devil's Game?

• 30:57Speaker 01

  So YouTube TV still does the local blackouts.

• 31:00David Imel?

  What does that mean?

• 31:01Speaker 01

  If you watch, oh, you don't know about local sports blackouts?

• 31:04Speaker 04

  Oh, must be nice.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Oh, God. So if you're a fan of, let's say you watch basketball, there's a bunch of teams you can watch.

• 31:11David Imel?

  Okay.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  In your local, so you get YouTube TV, right? You're watching the Dallas versus LA game. It pulls up, you watch the game, great. But in your own region, you're a little more likely to be a fan of your own team. So let's say you wanna watch the New York team's games, the Knicks. There's a special deal with the Knicks and the New York team where their broadcasts are only shown by this local TV network. So if you pull it up on YouTube TV, it's just blacked out. Oh, you're in New York? Can't watch it on YouTube TV. You need cable to watch MSG Network to watch the Knicks game.

• 31:41David Imel?

  Well, it used to be a country.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  So it's like, yes, you can mostly watch NBA games with YouTube TV.

• 31:46David Imel?

  Can I use a VPN?

• 31:48Andrew Manganelli?

  It's so confusing. I've gone through the wringer of trying to do all this. MSG is specifically annoying in the New York area because it's the Knicks, the Rangers, the Islanders, and the Devils. So if you're a fan of any of those teams in this hockey specifically, like it's very hard to watch. You need, and then Xfinity can't make a deal with MSG. So even if you bought Xfinity cable, you'll get charged the fee every month for local sports networks, but you don't have four of the local teams. It's insane.

• 32:17David Imel?

  Wow. Don't worry, guys. Warner Bros. Discovery Paramount is gonna make this a lot easier.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  If the Vision Pro could solve all of this, I would buy another Vision Pro.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  I'm looking for like another source for confirmation, but it seems like you need to live in the Los Angeles area to get the Lakers games on Vision Pro. They're not, they're not making it available to, you have to be an existing Spectrum Sports Net customer.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  Alright, I'm out. Okay, wait, because I have media for a studio video. I'm out.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  I'm looking for confirmation because I also don't pay for cable. I might, I, I watch my team when they don't play in New York City on YouTube TV.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:00Speaker 02

  The Philadelphia 76ers, the greatest basketball team ever assembled.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  So they're taking this, the small subset of Vision Pro users and then subsetting that even more into people who live in LA and then subsetting that more into people that are into basketball, into people who are subscribers of that niche TV.

• 33:20David Imel?

  League Pass.

• 33:21Speaker 02

  It's not, it's not, it's, I don't think it's that niche. I think it's the main, it's the channel you have to get to watch any Los Angeles sports. They have like the.

• 33:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Local.

• 33:30Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah, yeah, thank you.

• 33:32Speaker 01

  Well, I prefer to watch it in 67 TikTok reels.

• 33:38David Imel?

  And that's how I watch the game.

• 33:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, just like I watch movies.

• 33:41Speaker 02

  You can live in Southern Nevada or Hawaii.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 33:45David Imel?

  Hey, Southern Nevada? Or you can just be there, I'm there. You can fly to Vegas. Okay, well, we're not a tech podcast anymore. But we'll return to being one after we do the thing that is also not tech, but the questions are about tech. Sometimes. Yeah, today it might be about hermit crabs or something today, I don't know.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  Do you want a question about hermit crabs?

• 34:12David Imel?

  No.

• 34:12Speaker 02

  Cause I can pull one out.

• 34:13David Imel?

  No.

• 34:13Speaker 02

  Is that a hermit crab question?

• 34:14David Imel?

  I could do the I don't know anything about I could do the mantis shrimp ones. I know a lot about those guys.

• 34:19Speaker 02

  I don't have time to find a hermit crab question. So instead, we gotta do a question about the hermit crabs of the tech world. Microsoft Windows.

• 34:30David Imel?

  Huh.

• 34:31Speaker 02

  I don't really know. I was kinda hoping the analogy king over there would see me through on that one. Anyway.

• 34:35David Imel?

  Someone will figure it out. They put a big shell over, it's a shell of a company.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  Windows shell, no, no, Windows shell.

• 34:40David Imel?

  Oh, true. Power shell. They're also a shell of what they once were.

• 34:44Speaker 02

  All right, well, anyway, when we were about to talk about

• 34:46David Imel?

  There was that Steve left.

• 34:49Speaker 02

  Steve

• 34:49David Imel?

  Ballmer? There you go.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  Developers!

• 34:53Speaker 02

  Kawhi!

• 34:54David Imel?

  I'm sweating!

• 34:56Speaker 02

  Okay, guys, after the break, we are gonna talk about Windows 10's end of life celebration. Or, um, yeah, I feel like we can look back

• 35:03David Imel?

  Celebration.

• 35:04Speaker 02

  fondly on that one, yeah.

• 35:05David Imel?

  I love Windows 10.

• 35:06Speaker 02

  But when Windows 11 came out, we lost two legendary pieces of software that had been bundled with Windows previously.

• 35:14David Imel?

  Oh, no.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  What were they? You're gonna get one point per piece of software, and one of them has a pretty big asterisk that I'm gonna have to say before I get chewed out by the gamers. Actually, I shouldn't say gamers, because it does nothing to do with video games.

• 35:28David Imel?

  Is this legendary in the same way that the Cybertruck is iconic? Where like

• 35:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:34David Imel?

  It is legendary, but people didn't necessarily love it?

• 35:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's fair to say that both of these pieces of software people did not necessarily love.

• 35:44David Imel?

  Okay. All right, well, we'll think about this one. Answers will be at the end, like usual. We'll be right back.

• 35:58Speaker 01

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• 36:42Speaker 01

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• 36:58Speaker 05

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, hosts Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring you fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, "How do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting?" And, "What sectors are on the move right now?" Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 37:44Speaker 05

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, hosts Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring you fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, "How do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting?" And, "What sectors are on the move right now?" Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 38:28David Imel?

  Welcome back. We got some quick hits for you today. Specifically, one that is potentially exciting for us in the future, except it's not, at least for now, and probably not in the future. But there's a chance. So Netflix, early next year, is bringing 16 video podcasts from Spotify to Netflix.

• 38:50David Imel?

  This is, yeah, it's been rumored for a while. There is this point, there's this Venn diagram, right? Where video podcast and talk show, it's just a circle. So, we're just a talk show, right? Which is what a podcast is, when you have video for it, right? So Netflix is realizing the popularity of these things, they're getting a lunch eaten by YouTube, and they're like, "Oh, well, we gotta, you know, we gotta develop original content. That takes a lot of money and a lot of time. So instead of original content, we'll just make Love Island number 8,000 in the UK with dinosaurs."

• 39:28Speaker 01

  Works every time.

• 39:28David Imel?

  You know, so now they're like, "Okay, it's gonna be a lot easier if we can just do the easy content, like what we make."

• 39:37Speaker 01

  It sounds like, here's how I'm reading this, because on the other side of the fence, on the YouTube side of the fence, every time YouTube talks to us about... The growth of YouTube and how YouTube is evolving.

• 39:47David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 39:47Speaker 01

  One of the things that always comes up is TV watch time.

• 39:49David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  And how much more content is being watched on TVs. And so they're doing all the special features for TVs and having channel banners designed for TVs, stuff like that. And even this podcast is viewed, I think, by 20% TV viewers.

• 40:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  Which is pretty high. I think the M K B H channels closer to 10%. So, long content, longer videos, people are watching on TVs. And so YouTube is sort of positioning themselves as like bursting into the TV watch space. So if I'm Netflix, I'm like.

• 40:20David Imel?

  That's our zone.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  Yo, that's, that's us. Like, what do people, oh, oh, it's podcasts? All right, let's get some podcasts on here. And they're just gonna try it. And I don't know, it'll probably go, okay, and they'll see if it works and maybe add some more if it works or stop doing it if it doesn't work. But it's kind of how it looks to me.

• 40:33David Imel?

  It's ironic because it's Spotify video podcasts, which already have a video element on Spotify.

• 40:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:39David Imel?

  Which is weird, by the way. I got sent a podcast on Spotify, which I did not like because I don't like mixing my podcasts and my music. I don't like that the algorithm does not know the difference for me. And I was kind of taken aback to see that it started playing a video in Spotify. And apparently they have that now. They keep begging us to do it.

• 40:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, you've never seen.

• 40:58David Imel?

  People beg us to do it.

• 40:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 40:59David Imel?

  I've never watched one.

• 41:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Got it.

• 41:00David Imel?

  But I started watching and I was like, oh yeah, this is fine, I guess. But it's a partnership between Spotify and Netflix. So these are Spotify exclusive video podcasts that are being put on Netflix. Like, it's not Spotify exclusive anymore. But part of the contract says that they can't run the full episode on YouTube specifically.

• 41:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Which is similar to like the, when Spotify first got Joe Rogan, you can only do clips on YouTube.

• 41:24David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 41:24Andrew Manganelli?

  You couldn't do it. So like, this just feels like another reason to prove why we're still not putting stuff on Spotify. Cause just the stuff, I mean, they didn't offer us this deal.

• 41:34David Imel?

  It was only 16.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  It's only 16 and I believe all, I'm double checking this now. I believe all 16 are owned by Spotify.

• 41:40David Imel?

  Yeah, Spotify Studios.

• 41:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 41:42David Imel?

  Spotify Studios. So this is just their content acquisition plan. Like, they couldn't go to YouTube and steal podcasts from there and put it on Netflix. So this is the thing that they found that they could acquire to see if it works.

• 41:52Speaker 02

  To be fair, they could go on YouTube and steal podcasts and then train their AI models on it. They just couldn't, you know?

• 41:57David Imel?

  And make AI podcasts.

• 41:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Who do you think this benefits more? Netflix or Spotify? I don't think this.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  I think Netflix.

• 42:04Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't think it benefits either.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  It's TBD for Netflix because we don't know if Netflix users will respond positively or negatively to it, I guess.

• 42:11David Imel?

  I think that Spotify is already set up to develop podcasts. They've been investing in making original podcasts for a very long time. So it's easy for them to sort of throw these things together. Netflix makes a lot of original content, but it's all TV.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:25David Imel?

  They don't have the infrastructure as much to just like develop original podcasts.

• 42:29Andrew Manganelli?

  But for Spotify, Netflix is the infrastructure of being able to play a podcast on your TV.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Spotify doesn't have a way of doing that.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 42:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Spotify doesn't want to put it on YouTube because that's a competitor for video stuff. So this is just like.

• 42:41David Imel?

  It's good for both of them.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  More distribution for them.

• 42:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I don't know. This feels like when Mixer was like, let's get Shroud and Ninja over here and like just get these huge podcasts. And you'll definitely want to come over and watch it. And then nobody watched any of it.

• 42:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:55Andrew Manganelli?

  They just made a bag. So it sounds like 16 video podcasts are making a bag.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 42:59David Imel?

  Like Netflix is realizing that they started, you know, with all the videos that they were making. And then they started making original content and that was like their big sellers that they had all these good shows. And then slowly all these other streaming platforms popped up. And a lot of these other streaming platforms were owned by the TV networks and the cable networks. And so they had sort of existing content that was more like TV content that was not as high quality. So Netflix was like, oh, well, we're getting our lunch eaten by that. They made lower quality content. Or at least, I don't want to say quality, but at least like.

• 43:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Probably not lower quality, but lower production costs.

• 43:30David Imel?

  Because people, yeah, people don't always want to be like only watching TV shows. Sometimes they want to be using lower cognitive load, you know?

• 43:38Speaker 01

  Background noise.

• 43:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Are you saying Love Island is lower cognitive load?

• 43:42David Imel?

  Yes, I am, Adam.

• 43:44Speaker 01

  It's more of like the cube and like the, what is this? What is this shows? The, the cut or something?

• 43:49David Imel?

  The cut.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  Guys, we have done 317 episodes of us sitting at this table. I don't know if we're the ones to talk about lower cognitive load.

• 43:57David Imel?

  Yeah, well, anyway, I don't know. YouTube is the biggest streaming platform in the world. So Netflix is just realizing we have to have feature parity with the biggest streaming platform in the world.

• 44:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. On YouTube, users generate the content. On Netflix, oh God, how do we get the content?

• 44:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:11Speaker 01

  Here it is.

• 44:11David Imel?

  That reminds me real quick, side note, one of my friends was like, oh, I just got a new job. And I said, what is it? And she's like, oh, I'm making user generated content. And I was like. Isn't that just? You're a user. Content? You're just making content as a user? Isn't that? I'm making videos for the company. I was like, why did they call it user-generated content? Isn't that just you're a content producer for the company? Isn't that the opposite of user-generated content? Yeah, that's.

• 44:36Speaker 02

  I would assume the company wants the users to think. It's user-generated content.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  Well, don't they all do that? Like, have you not seen the weird?

• 44:46David Imel?

  Like on threads?

• 44:47Speaker 02

  Or have you not seen the most recent Samsung campaign? That's a bunch of fake podcast clips. That's just one guy being like, I just switched from iPhone to Samsung and it's so much easier than I ever would have thought. The other podcast guest is like.

• 45:00David Imel?

  User-generated content?

• 45:01Speaker 02

  Well, it's not always.

• 45:03David Imel?

  It's posing as user-generated.

• 45:04Speaker 02

  That it's not a real pod. Like, it's like a vertical podcast clip.

• 45:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:09David Imel?

  Ellis, you just set me up for the greatest segue ever. Because speaking of Samsung. Thank you. They were about to, uh, they have a new event coming up next week. The October 21st, they're going to detail more information about the Project Muhan Android XR headset. We made a video about this in January. It is now mid to late October.

• 45:30Speaker 04

  What is this more information? Just a release date, I guess?

• 45:34David Imel?

  I suppose price, release date. Um, Google, I'm sure is very excited about this, but it does seem like interesting timing because Apple has just announced the M5 Vision Pro. And so now they're going to release their Android XR headset. Probably running some Snapdragon something.

• 45:51Speaker 04

  No, it's gonna have the M5.

• 45:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  If you, if you want a refresher on all the things that this headset will do, just look back at our video in January.

• 45:59David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  We did a demo of like all these Gemini features and all these Android features. It's like having an Android tablet on your face and all these gestures and then eye controls and hand controls. It'll be interesting to see how they compare. Again, it's like comparing an Android phone to an iPhone is one thing, but comparing an Android headset to a Vision Pro almost doesn't make sense. Like, I don't know if anyone's cross-shopping those things.

• 46:21David Imel?

  Well, and it's ironic because if, if Apple can't even figure out anything for you to do with their version of the headset, then how is Samsung gonna? Like, everyone's making the glasses now. Even Apple is, like, the rumor right now is that they, they put a pause on the low-cost Vision Pro to switch over to making glasses.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:39David Imel?

  So now that Samsung is like uber late to dropping this headset, it feels like they're just.

• 46:45Speaker 01

  That's my main.

• 46:46David Imel?

  Very late to it.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  That's my main question. Looking at this is like Vision Pro has been in the super zoomed out grand scheme of things, kind of a flop.

• 46:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  Like, sales-wise, it's not super successful. As far as like users, like, there's not that many people using it every day.

• 47:02David Imel?

  I don't think you need to sugarcoat it. It's a flop.

• 47:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, so Samsung's coming along, finally dropping their competitor to it. It's like, why? Is that, are we just, just to have a parody with Apple's ecosystem? Or do you really, really believe the headset is the future?

• 47:17David Imel?

  It reminds me of the, just all the different hype cycles we've gone through, like the metaverse and like all of these different hype cycles where companies will think, okay, we gotta invest in this because this is what everyone is saying the future is.

• 47:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:30David Imel?

  And so they dump a ton of money in research and development into it. But just like the Nintendo Switch, seems like the Switch 2, Nintendo Switch 2, seems like it was made for the COVID era because the whole thing is about the camera and like putting your friends' faces in social stuff. It seems like this was developed when everyone thought, okay, Vision Pro might be the future of computing. And now everyone's like, oh, it's actually the glasses.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  Kind of does feel like that.

• 47:54Speaker 04

  No one wants to miss out on the next ship setting sail.

• 47:57David Imel?

  Exactly.

• 47:58Speaker 04

  So why not throw some money at it?

• 47:59David Imel?

  Yeah, it's better to have a flop than it is to miss the, miss the wave.

• 48:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, just in case it unflops or something.

• 48:06David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 48:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. This Vision, this M5 Vision Pro is really gonna take off, guys. It's really.

• 48:11David Imel?

  Now that they have 10% higher.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, pixel rendering.

• 48:15David Imel?

  Pixel rendering, it's definitely gonna take off.

• 48:17Speaker 04

  Speaking of 10% higher pixel rendering.

• 48:20Speaker 01

  Wow. This has been an.

• 48:24David Imel?

  L U.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  This has been an iconic segue episode. What about 10? What did you want to say about 10?

• 48:32Speaker 04

  Uh, farewell to our friend Windows 10.

• 48:35Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 48:36Andrew Manganelli?

  I was gonna say sayonara, but that's what you say when you don't care that something's going goodbye. And Windows 10 was like part of the cycle of like good and bad, and it was on the good cycle.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:46Andrew Manganelli?

  I think.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  Cause 8 was.

• 48:48Andrew Manganelli?

  8 was.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  We don't talk about.

• 48:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, 8 was Windows 8.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  They were like, Windows 8, everything's tiles. Next month, Windows 8.1, everything's Windows 7 again.

• 48:58Andrew Manganelli?

  We really screwed this one up.

• 48:59David Imel?

  We really didn't do that one right.

• 49:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Um, but yeah, Microsoft is actually isn't. They officially ended support for Windows 10 this week, 10 years after its launch. And I mean, obviously, all operating systems do this eventually. 10 years is plenty of time. Windows 11 has been out for five years.

• 49:19Speaker 01

  Is that true?

• 49:20Andrew Manganelli?

  It's been been out for a little while. If someone wants to find the exact date of that. But, um, I think when I don't really have that much against Windows 11.

• 49:29Speaker 01

  Four years.

• 49:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Four years.

• 49:30Speaker 01

  Four years.

• 49:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Windows 11 isn't that bad, but Windows 10 was just better.

• 49:34David Imel?

  That's where it was at.

• 49:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, it was where it was at. So, um, what I thought was funny about this is 40% of Windows users today are still using 10. Valve says 30% of all PC gamers are still using Windows 10. Um, there's a report. One of the big things about this that I think is really interesting is the switch to Windows 11 requires a lot of hardware requirements. So presumably a lot of businesses and enterprise companies using Windows 10 right now probably can't even upgrade to Windows 11. And in the enterprise world, like people stay on old versions of operating systems for a long time, for many reasons. Sometimes it's software. Sometimes it's just they bought a batch of computers and they want to run them until they die. I, I worked at a

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Or just don't want to break any compatibility with stuff.

• 50:20David Imel?

  Like government, they just run the same stuff forever.

• 50:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I worked at a company in like 2015 and we were still using Windows XP on like 20% of the computers we had in the office.

• 50:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I feel like XP was pretty famous for that. Like there are so many old and enterprise that just runs XP and it's bulletproof and it's just never going to break.

• 50:38David Imel?

  And it was the greatest operating system ever made.

• 50:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, it's pretty

• 50:42Speaker 01

  I skinned my XP. I told you guys this, I skinned my XP to look like Vista. Cause Vista looked good, but, but at least at the time.

• 50:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  It looked kinda cool.

• 50:52David Imel?

  Didn't age very well.

• 50:53Speaker 01

  This is like liquid glass of 2000, whatever it was. It kinda looked cool, but I still had, I did not have the required GPU and RAM to upgrade to Vista. So I got a skin that I might've done a video about this that made it, I definitely did a video about this, made XP look like Vista. And it was not a good idea. Of course it was. Took a ton of system resources. But it looked like Vista.

• 51:16David Imel?

  Remember when Microsoft launched Vista and they had the big party and they had like the the casket with like ripped to Apple? It was like Apple's funeral.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  What?

• 51:24David Imel?

  Yeah, and it was when they launched.

• 51:25Speaker 01

  I missed that.

• 51:25David Imel?

  Vista.

• 51:26Speaker 01

  Jesus.

• 51:27David Imel?

  It was like, oh.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  Don't you guys know about the cycle?

• 51:30David Imel?

  You played those cards wrong. Yeah, the cycle wasn't established.

• 51:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was still early.

• 51:35David Imel?

  It was still early.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, that kind of was this was at the start of the cycle, it felt like.

• 51:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:40Andrew Manganelli?

  About the start, but yeah.

• 51:40Speaker 01

  The big one. Cause Windows 2000 was solid. And 2000 was right before XP.

• 51:45David Imel?

  So XP was was goaded and then it went bad with seven.

• 51:49Speaker 01

  No, seven was good.

• 51:50David Imel?

  Sorry, bad with Vista, good with seven, bad with eight. Yeah, that's true.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's kind of the beginning.

• 51:53David Imel?

  Good with 8.1.

• 51:54Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 51:55David Imel?

  Bad with 10.

• 51:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, yeah, uh, so they will be offering, uh, it's weird. They like closed it, but they're going to be offering, it's, this is very confusing. Another year of security support for a payment for some people. Also, not only enterprises, usually it was only enterprises that could do this, but it seems like they're offering it to some users. And it's kind of confusing. You can get a year of extended support for $61. Europe fought this and it has to be for free. I believe also in the US, you have to, um, download something called Windows Backup. And you do not have to in Europe. And then there's.

• 52:31Speaker 01

  Yo, Europe's.

• 52:31Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm pretty sure you can, um, do it for three years with like compounding payments on top of it. If you want to continue to use, which a lot of these enterprises are probably going to have to do. Cause that's still cheaper than upgrading computers. But what I've found the most interesting is I looked at the market share. We are going to talk about percentages. I was just looking at a couple of like who's, what versions of Windows are still being used? Apparently 9% of Windows desktop users are still on Windows 7. 0.3% are still on Windows XP.

• 53:03Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 53:03Andrew Manganelli?

  0.3 sounds really small, but that is still thousands of people. What I want to know is half a percent of people are on Windows 8. Is it, are you guys okay?

• 53:15Speaker 01

  I don't think.

• 53:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Who is still on Windows 8?

• 53:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:18Speaker 02

  What if your, what if your computer can't run Windows 10?

• 53:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Why'd you go to Windows 8?

• 53:24Speaker 02

  What if you had a Windows 8 computer?

• 53:26Andrew Manganelli?

  A Windows 8 computer?

• 53:27Speaker 01

  Like a Surface or?

• 53:28Speaker 02

  I worked at a recording studio that we could not upgrade to Windows 10 specifically because the motherboard. We had, we had a beefcake PC totally specked out, but the motherboard wasn't compatible with Windows 10.

• 53:42Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm interested in how many, I mean, I know this is still thing, but Windows 10 released in 2015. So presumably the computer has to be at least 10 years old and running Windows 8.

• 53:55Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm, it would have to be a beef of a computer in 2015. I like the latest to still be running. I'm sure, I'm sure it's out there, but I just like.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  I remember the conversation at this recording studio where it was like, we have a $10,000 computer. That, that is totally fine. That is now unsupported specifically because the random motherboard manufacturer we went with. I don't remember who made it, but.

• 54:20Andrew Manganelli?

  I have to assume some of these are also like the computer that runs the security camera system.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I worked at a hospital years ago that was using XP's because everything there like, it's not even that the hardware isn't compatible. It's that the data is so sensitive that they don't want to do anything to lose it. So you can't like mess with it in any way unless you want to invest heavily in transferring it and backing it up and doing that whole thing.

• 54:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Also very funny that the data is so sensitive. They're using something that hasn't had a security update and.

• 54:49Speaker 02

  You'd be surprised how sensitive data is just sitting on an old server somewhere.

• 54:52Andrew Manganelli?

  It's probably also like locally or something.

• 54:54Speaker 01

  Sometimes it's that or it's like this piece of hardware, this X-ray machine or this robot. Yeah. Only works with this software on this OS.

• 55:03David Imel?

  My Hasselblad FlexTite scanner, I had to buy a 2000 and 2007 Mac Pro to run it. Cause it only runs up to HiSierra.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:13David Imel?

  So it's air gapped. I will never connect it to the internet.

• 55:15Speaker 01

  It's funny. I was going to mention this and I guess I might as well. My, my home computer is a 2017 Intel iMac Pro and I went to go update it to Tahoe this past weekend and it's not supported. And I'm like, I guess I have to buy a new computer. I mean, I don't have to. I could keep using.

• 55:33David Imel?

  If you really want Tahoe on it.

• 55:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, but yeah.

• 55:37Speaker 02

  I'm experiencing the same thing at home with my, AKA your old 2017 Intel Mac Pro. And it's funny, I was up very late last night compiling binaries for Intel architecture, trying to get various add-ons and stuff to work. It's over.

• 55:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:54Speaker 02

  The dream is dead.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  I might have to go pop in an Apple store.

• 55:57David Imel?

  I'm glad I quit that company.

• 56:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Now that we've said this, I want to hear all the extremely niche scenarios that some of our audience might be using. An old version of a unsupported.

• 56:08David Imel?

  My toothbrush runs on Windows XP.

• 56:11Andrew Manganelli?

  It's a sick toothbrush. It's also 25 years old.

• 56:15Speaker 01

  Tooth tunes.

• 56:16David Imel?

  Tooth tunes, baby.

• 56:18Andrew Manganelli?

  But yeah, I, you know, we say goodbye to Windows 10. But in 10 years, when we're still talking about Windows market share and there's a 0.5% of Windows 10 users.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  It's gonna happen.

• 56:29Andrew Manganelli?

  We know you're out there.

• 56:30David Imel?

  It'll be one of them.

• 56:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Funny enough, Windows also said, posted a teaser tweet yesterday or today, yesterday, which will, it says, your hands are about to get some PTO waving emoji. Time to rest those fingers. Something big is coming Thursday. Emoji. It's gotta be something.

• 56:47David Imel?

  Something AI related. Yeah, it's probably, you can talk to your computer.

• 56:51Andrew Manganelli?

  But what are the chances it's Clippy?

• 56:53David Imel?

  No.

• 56:53Speaker 01

  Not zero. Never zero. It's never.

• 56:56David Imel?

  That would be cool.

• 56:58Andrew Manganelli?

  I feel like there's gotta be a reason they're not bringing Clippy back. Is there like a weird copyright or like trademark thing that they lost or? No.

• 57:07David Imel?

  No.

• 57:07Andrew Manganelli?

  But we hate him so much, we want him back now.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  It's easy to make fun of.

• 57:10David Imel?

  I know.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  Literally. But it's got a, it's endearing.

• 57:12David Imel?

  Instead of co-pilot, they could have just done Clippy and everyone would have loved it.

• 57:17Andrew Manganelli?

  It could have been awful and we would have been like, yeah, but it's Clippy.

• 57:19David Imel?

  It's Clippy.

• 57:20Speaker 01

  Give him a chance.

• 57:21David Imel?

  He was bad originally too.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  He's got a face.

• 57:24David Imel?

  It's just nostalgia. He was always bad.

• 57:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:27David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  Clippy was always pretty.

• 57:29Andrew Manganelli?

  I like, if I got AI questions that were wrong with his Clippy, I'd be like, ah, you'll get them next time, pal.

• 57:34David Imel?

  Yeah, exactly. This is what I'm saying.

• 57:36Speaker 01

  The key anthropomorphizing your bad AI is the key to making it accepted by regular people.

• 57:42David Imel?

  Yeah, I mean, the problem before was that it was Cortana and then you're like, oh, dumb computer woman. Which you can't do. That's bad.

• 57:50Speaker 01

  But Clippy, it was just a friendly, smiling face and it would pop up and it would be, seems like, and it'd be like, no, get away. You're wrong. But she would gently move it away. Cause you didn't wanna.

• 57:59David Imel?

  And now Copilot is just this like amorphous, watching ever.

• 58:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, what?

• 58:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Ellis, I feel like you would know the answer. Was Cortana a direct reference to Alos?

• 58:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was the same character, yeah.

• 58:11Andrew Manganelli?

  She was just annoying in the game, so like, it always, I don't want, I just wanna go mess around on the map. I don't wanna listen to what I have to actually do right now. Now Clippy.

• 58:22Speaker 01

  How? You've seen that?

• 58:23David Imel?

  No, I haven't seen it actually.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  I'm referencing a movie I haven't seen.

• 58:27David Imel?

  I was like, that's a slow burn movie. I would be very surprised.

• 58:30Speaker 04

  That movie is so long, it has an intermission.

• 58:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:33Speaker 04

  Oh, it does.

• 58:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it does.

• 58:34Andrew Manganelli?

  How long is it? How long is a movie with an intermission?

• 58:37Speaker 01

  The intro is like eight minutes of just like gorillas dancing.

• 58:41David Imel?

  Whoa.

• 58:41Speaker 01

  And I definitely have not seen this movie.

• 58:45Speaker 01

  I mean, I love the.

• 58:47Speaker 04

  It's only two and a half hours. Yeah, but it came out in. It came out in 68, so two and a half hours back then was a long time.

• 58:53Andrew Manganelli?

  That's two VHSs.

• 58:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:55David Imel?

  Remember every, every 90s movie was exactly 90 minutes.

• 58:59Speaker 01

  Fair enough. Anyway, speaking of 10, we got one more 10 to talk about, but that will be after the break.

• 59:03David Imel?

  Oh, that's kind of you, Marquez.

• 59:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. It'll be a folding 10.

• 59:08David Imel?

  Oh, I could fold.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  But before that, trivia.

• 59:13Speaker 04

  Trivia, dude.

• 59:14Speaker 01

  Said I could fold?

• 59:15David Imel?

  Yeah. Yeah, cause I thought you were, I thought you were saying I was a 10.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  Oh, I get it.

• 59:20David Imel?

  You said I've got one more 10 to talk about. I said, thank you.

• 59:22Speaker 01

  God, I totally missed that.

• 59:24Speaker 04

  Well, earlier we spoke about Xiaomi thing. What is the mascot for Xiaomi? I will accept one point for what it is and another point if you got its names, which you won't get, so.

• 59:35Speaker 01

  The money.

• 59:38Speaker 01

  Xiaomi as a mascot.

• 59:39David Imel?

  Xiaomi the money.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  I feel like I've seen this. I was just in China and there were Xiaomi cars everywhere.

• 59:43David Imel?

  Oh, you know what it is. You know what it is.

• 59:47Speaker 01

  All right.

• 59:47David Imel?

  Or is that the Poco? Never mind.

• 59:50Speaker 01

  Well, this, the animal you're thinking of is a mascot for a lot of things, but I don't know if it's Xiaomi's mascot. We'll see. It might be. Well, we'll guess like we usually do at the end. We'll be right back.

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• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  All right, welcome back. Let's talk about the last 10 thing. And that is, unfortunately, the Pixel 10 Pro Fold is back in the news because Zach got his hands on one. Did you guys see what happened to the Pixel 10 Pro Fold in Zach's test?

• 1:02:34David Imel?

  Got fiery.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  So, yeah, it exploded. Okay, so here's what happened. He's tested the Pixel folds before and they kind of have failed, not kind of, they failed his durability test, which is just bending it in half and snapping the frame at the antenna lines and lighting the screen on fire and carving up with, you know, putting a bunch of dust in the hinge and stuff like that. But this one, he somehow punctured the battery during his fold as well. I'm not even sure exactly how it happened.

• 1:03:01Andrew Manganelli?

  He thinks because of where the antenna line is, which has been the fault spot of the last couple of folds, which they haven't changed. Basically where the battery is, where that part, because it didn't crack at the hinge, which is very impressive for the hinge, I feel like.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  The hinge is incredible.

• 1:03:14Andrew Manganelli?

  But where-

• 1:03:14Speaker 01

  Shout out to the hinge engineers.

• 1:03:15Andrew Manganelli?

  The hinge engineer is always there.

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  Boo.

• 1:03:18Andrew Manganelli?

  But where the antenna line was, he thinks it was right around the edge of the battery to where the layers of what the battery are probably pinched together, where at the side where all of them are, and that caused a short.

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, thermal runaway.

• 1:03:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Theory.

• 1:03:31Speaker 01

  That's a good theory. No matter what, it's still crazy. I don't even know that this, this is obviously a one-off. Like, most people aren't treating their phones like Zach is. So I don't know how much this matters for-

• 1:03:43David Imel?

  Google PR.

• 1:03:45Speaker 01

  I would guess it's not great.

• 1:03:46David Imel?

  I'd guess it's more chance. It doesn't seem like it's one of those things that it's like, oh, this is a fault in the phone. It's gonna do this all the time.

• 1:03:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, Google's gonna watch that video and be like, oh, wow, one of our phones exploded. Let's see what happened. And they're gonna get nine minutes into him like torturing and it's like, yeah, oh, he, he, he's trying to do this.

• 1:04:03David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  So, yeah, obviously, no phone has ever done that in his test before, but it did look pretty bad on camera and it did explode.

• 1:04:11Andrew Manganelli?

  That's, like you said, I doubt this actually happens, but also he's done it to how many phones at this point?

• 1:04:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Like, that was kind of weird. There was a couple of other things from the video I thought were interesting, though. The, um, the kind of like hidden camera, it's not really a camera, but the sensor next to the selfie sensor was kind of cool. Uh, mostly just because it winds up being a sensor with no lens that he's assuming is for like proximity. But when he kind of like pushed it with his knife, you could see it bowing in like it has the, the camera cut out.

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:04:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Um, the hinge with the, cause he did dust resistance, which was really extreme, because this is the first dust resistant.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  Sand.

• 1:04:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Phone. I think it was like gravel.

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:51Andrew Manganelli?

  It sounded real bad.

• 1:04:52Speaker 01

  It usually does.

• 1:04:53Andrew Manganelli?

  It was a lot, but I think it's fair to say that if some gravel gets into the hinge, the rest of the video, it sounded crunchy, which is the last thing you'd ever want with a folding phone.

• 1:05:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Um, and then the other thing I have is just, uh, did you see the microphone hole?

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:09Andrew Manganelli?

  It's kind of like, the hole on the bottom is not the actual microphone. It is a, a like cylindrical hole that goes in and then the microphones on the inside wall of that. I guess potentially enough people were sticking the SIM tray ejector tool into the microphone and damaging it. So now the microphone is kind of off to the side.

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  It's clever.

• 1:05:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, yeah, we've all done it. Um, my question to Ellis, and I don't know if he saw it, is wouldn't that potentially mess up how sound is getting into the microphone?

• 1:05:39David Imel?

  Maybe a little.

• 1:05:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Now that it's not just right at the end of the, I'm assuming you didn't see it.

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  You should hear mine.

• 1:05:45Speaker 02

  I just, I just power watched the video of where it explodes, but you're saying like because the mic is recessed into the case.

• 1:05:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Rather than being of like, the case is flat and the microphone's right at the bottom of it. Now there's a indentation that goes up and it's inside of that. So presumably sound goes into a cylinder now and goes into the side of the microphone. I guess it's a phone call and no one really cares.

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  There's also like, it's, there's, there's actually reasons that could make things better. You know what I mean?

• 1:06:12Speaker 01

  There's also probably like five mics on this phone, right?

• 1:06:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:16Andrew Manganelli?

  I have no idea.

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  Typically, yeah, I think a lot of smartphones have like two, three, four mics and then they are combining. And that's the one at the bottom of the phone. So it's just usually for phone calls and it's hearing your voice.

• 1:06:27Speaker 02

  Let me, let me raise you this one. Okay. Like one of the most iconic mics of all time, the SM57. The sound goes in the top, but if you speak from the back, you can't hear it. It's like the cardioid pattern, right? The way they achieve that is there's actually holes on the side of the mic. So that if you're pointing it at your face, it goes in that, the face hole side first, and then the stuff from the back goes in, you know, a little bit later because sound has like a speed, right? And it goes in, jets in jets enough later and bounces around all these sort of cavities that it hits it and actually like cancels out the sound coming from behind because of that temporal difference. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of funky tricks you can do with like distance and tubes and stuff like that. So I don't feel qualified to say whether this is good or bad.

• 1:07:13Andrew Manganelli?

  I think you're qualified. It doesn't matter because no one's poking it anymore.

• 1:07:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:16Andrew Manganelli?

  It's safe up there.

• 1:07:18Speaker 01

  True. I have poked microphone holes.

• 1:07:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Have you really?

• 1:07:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. But I'm also someone who ejects SIM cards way more than the usual person. So I may just have a way bigger.

• 1:07:29Andrew Manganelli?

  You wouldn't do it.

• 1:07:30Speaker 01

  Well, I have a larger sample size and maybe there's just every, actually, there's been some phones where the, it's not gonna, I have none of these phones have SIM card trays, but it's been like the eject port for the SIM card tray is right next to a single port where the microphone also is. And it's very easy to, yeah, accidentally do one or the other.

• 1:07:50David Imel?

  Or you can just be like me, use your phone in the shower way too much and destroy the microphone that way.

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  That'll do it. Especially if it's not.

• 1:07:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Innovation.

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  Water resistant.

• 1:07:59David Imel?

  Well, even when it is. Now, when I, now when I leave a voice note, it just goes.

• 1:08:04Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like the French dub.

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is tough. Yeah. Yeah, you know, durability tests are one thing on the internet and I don't think this means if you have a pixel profile that it is likely to explode anyway. But if another one explodes, maybe we'll be back here next week talking about that.

• 1:08:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, it's fun to watch.

• 1:08:21Speaker 04

  This was a one off thing because of some freak accident when he was folding it? Or do you think if he took that fold, like a different 10 pro fold and folded it again in the same way? Do you think it'll happen again? Like, is it a flaw in that way? Or is it just like, it happened randomly?

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  Just where the pressure got put.

• 1:08:41Andrew Manganelli?

  It also, and it was also, it wasn't on the initial snap. It was when he was then bending it again after to kind of like straighten it out and do more. That's when it started going off. So like, yeah, he thinks it's because it just like perfectly at the edge of the battery crimped the edge, which then makes touches of all the different layers and then shorts it. So I think the potential is there. The potential probably was there almost just as much on past ones. Or maybe just the 10, the battery edge and the antenna line are like almost identical. So where it snapped, it got that perfect side of the battery. I don't know. Don't play with batteries like that for the most part. There's, there's always a great chance that could happen.

• 1:09:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. The way I said on Twitter is it's both, it's simultaneously very unlucky and very lucky. It's very unlucky to have like the battery thermal runaway like that and very lucky that it wasn't worse and didn't like burn anything.

• 1:09:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. Did you catch, I think he, they have his, cause his audio is not live, but I'm pretty sure he said fricking heck there. And I was like, good job, Zach for keeping this family friendly in the process of a phone almost catching on fire in front of you.

• 1:09:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. If that happened, I'd, I'd just leave the room.

• 1:09:48Speaker 04

  He was like, which is what you should do.

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  Then your house would burn down.

• 1:09:51Speaker 04

  It's possible.

• 1:09:52Andrew Manganelli?

  It's possible.

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  I would cover with a towel.

• 1:09:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Rather not be in the house. Cover it with a bunch of tinder.

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  If I can't see it, it's not happening.

• 1:10:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Cover it with other batteries from around.

• 1:10:02Speaker 01

  How I usually live my life. All I know is that battery thermal runaway is like, you can't reach into the battery and stop it from happening. That reaction is going to take its course.

• 1:10:12Speaker 04

  And you can't smother the oxygen away. It's not the issue either.

• 1:10:15Speaker 01

  So all you can do is go, okay, if this lights anything else on fire, put that fire out. But like, the battery is going to do its thing. Once it starts, it's just gonna get to the end of that process.

• 1:10:26Speaker 04

  One time I had an electrical fire and I just threw it in my sink.

• 1:10:31Speaker 01

  That's probably fine.

• 1:10:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  Just like a metal box.

• 1:10:34David Imel?

  Yeah, true.

• 1:10:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:36Andrew Manganelli?

  This is not financial advice. All the fire department.

• 1:10:39Speaker 02

  Don't buy the $2 soldering iron. I learned the hard way.

• 1:10:43Speaker 01

  That's good advice.

• 1:10:44Speaker 02

  It will catch on fire.

• 1:10:45Speaker 01

  That's good advice.

• 1:10:46David Imel?

  All right, last little thing before we take it to trivia. Um, Honor just dropped one of the weirdest concept phones that we've seen in a long time. We've seen a lot of weird concept phones.

• 1:10:55Speaker 01

  I'm looking at this.

• 1:10:55David Imel?

  Yeah, if you know what a, like a DJI Osmo Pocket looks like, it's sort of this little camera that you can run around with. It's very compact, but it has a gimbal camera on the front, which means that it's like hyper stabilized. It can, it can pivot on different axes. And this phone has it built in as one of its main camera sensors, which is crazy. So the, the camera like flips around the top of the phone and then it's basically on a gimbal.

• 1:11:21Speaker 01

  Is this a good idea?

• 1:11:22David Imel?

  I think it's a cool idea.

• 1:11:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Hidden in the plateau where presumably it is the main sensor.

• 1:11:27David Imel?

  It's just the name now.

• 1:11:28Andrew Manganelli?

  It slides over.

• 1:11:29David Imel?

  The plateau is burning.

• 1:11:30Andrew Manganelli?

  And then comes out from.

• 1:11:32David Imel?

  The plateau.

• 1:11:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:33David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Like, and then can pop up as a selfie camera and looks like it does. I mean, yeah, if you don't know what the Osmo is, it's, it's pretty much the camera on every DJI drone, like Mavic and everything, but on a little stick. So imagine a drone camera.

• 1:11:47David Imel?

  Yeah, the Osmo Pocket is one of the most popular, sort of just like quick run and gun YouTube cameras right now. Every single person at every single tech event has one of these.

• 1:11:57Speaker 01

  Very popular.

• 1:11:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Really good for it.

• 1:11:59Speaker 02

  Shot on one, the colors are amazing.

• 1:12:01David Imel?

  I've heard that it's great.

• 1:12:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Good ass looking.

• 1:12:03David Imel?

  Well, so this is what I'm saying, and I, I think that this is why they are making this concept phone is that instead of people just using their phone, because the sensor is about the same size, people are still using this Osmo camera instead. So I think that they're thinking, what if we could put the Osmo in the phone?

• 1:12:19Speaker 01

  You know what's funny? I'm, the more I think about this, like I have seen phones for years try alternative selfie camera. Remember like, uh, this must've been like 10 years ago. Like the Oppo N3, maybe it was, which had a swiveling selfie camera.

• 1:12:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. No, I, I thought, oh, no, no, Find, the Find X was the one that comes up.

• 1:12:39David Imel?

  The first Find X. We've seen like motorized, yeah, shark fin.

• 1:12:43Andrew Manganelli?

  I thought it was a Zenfone that did the flip up. Yeah.

• 1:12:47David Imel?

  Yeah, Zenfone six. It flipped from the back. So you had the back cameras turned into the selfie camera.

• 1:12:52Speaker 01

  The Oppo N3 is what I'm referencing, which is a similar thing. It swiveled the back camera around to be a selfie camera. So, once you get that extreme, you start thinking about what if you could also build in like bigger optics and like stabilization and a gimbal and all that?

• 1:13:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:08Speaker 01

  And probably software on the phone to like motorize around and, and get

• 1:13:13David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:13Speaker 01

  Cool shots.

• 1:13:14David Imel?

  I mean, if you remember the LG Wing?

• 1:13:17Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:13:17David Imel?

  Yeah. You remember the LG Wing?

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 1:13:19David Imel?

  That had the gimbal software camera thing where it cropped into the sensor and it kind of felt like a gimbal that was kind of floating around.

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  It was a real gimbal.

• 1:13:27David Imel?

  Was it?

• 1:13:28Speaker 01

  Well, this one.

• 1:13:28David Imel?

  Oh, this one. Yeah, this one's a real gimbal. Yeah, I don't know. I think this is cool. I think that they see a market that has developed and they think, why don't? I, I thought the point was that people were supposed to shoot with their phones and yet people are still buying these DJ Osmo pockets. So what if you just made it the same thing?

• 1:13:42Andrew Manganelli?

  I, I feel like my argument with that would be the pocket is really good at capturing like a ton of stuff. Like even one of the scenarios they have here is the phone is in their chest pocket with the little gimbal pointing up, which is

• 1:13:54David Imel?

  POV.

• 1:13:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, kind of early. Yeah, like something you can capture all the time and like something you're doing, which for the Osmo, they always talk about like connected to a backpack strap. So you can do it while you're hiking where the pocket makes or the Osmo makes more sense because now I can still use my phone on the side. Like if I'm going to a convention and I want to do me on the show floor, filming everything, I probably still want to use my phone where this now your phone is what?

• 1:14:18David Imel?

  This, this would look theoretically better.

• 1:14:20Andrew Manganelli?

  You can use your phone now because it's the thing capturing all of the content.

• 1:14:25David Imel?

  Right.

• 1:14:25Andrew Manganelli?

  I guess that's my argument on why I want a side thing with replaceable batteries and not killing my phone's battery.

• 1:14:30David Imel?

  Alternatively, you just buy this as a camera and then you have an Android interface which you can edit on and you can upload from it. The whole thing is like its own little contained device and you can still have a separate phone.

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  I think I'm in on it.

• 1:14:43David Imel?

  This also just highlights to me how we have literally no competition in the United States. Just think of what we could have.

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  This is a concept.

• 1:14:51David Imel?

  This is a concept.

• 1:14:51Speaker 01

  I know, I know.

• 1:14:53David Imel?

  This is a good idea if the tech can be shrunken down and the gimbal can actually be good in a package so small it fits inside the camera plateau of your phone. That's the big if. And they can probably build a one-off and it'll be a cool concept. Oppo, Xiaomi, they've all done really weird stuff. I feel like they could do this.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  I will believe it when I see it. This is a perfect example of I'll believe it when I see it.

• 1:15:13Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm trying to imagine how thick the Osmo Pocket is and if I think that can get into a reasonably sized phone and I don't think it's possible.

• 1:15:20David Imel?

  Even if you'll believe it when you see it, we don't have any US manufacturers out here that are just like messing around with this because we have no competition.

• 1:15:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:28David Imel?

  So.

• 1:15:29Speaker 01

  I want to see it.

• 1:15:30David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:30Speaker 01

  I want to believe it.

• 1:15:31David Imel?

  Yeah, I want to believe.

• 1:15:33Speaker 04

  I feel like all the competition over on this side is software now. It's all ecosystem lock-in based.

• 1:15:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:40Speaker 04

  They're not really experimenting with hardware like this.

• 1:15:42David Imel?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:15:44Speaker 01

  I'm rooting for the Wally phone.

• 1:15:45David Imel?

  And shitification, baby. Wally phone. All right, well, I think with that, we should do a little ta ta ta ta ta ta ta trivia, dude. That's right.

• 1:15:59Speaker 01

  Nicely done.

• 1:16:01Speaker 02

  Trivia!

• 1:16:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Castilla board?

• 1:16:06David Imel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:16:07Speaker 02

  Guys, when we switched to Windows 11, we lost two legendary pieces of Windows software and they're not lost, they're just not bundled anymore. And one of them has a pretty big asterisk.

• 1:16:19Speaker 02

  What were they?

• 1:16:34Speaker 02

  We gotta find something new to fill this gap with. I like the pensive thoughtfulness.

• 1:16:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:41Speaker 02

  It just starts freestyling over.

• 1:16:45Speaker 02

  Alright. Alright, boys.

• 1:16:47David Imel?

  I'm gonna be so mad when I hear this.

• 1:16:48Speaker 02

  What do my... Oh my god. Alright, David.

• 1:16:51David Imel?

  I said drag decks. Okay. And I also said paint 3D. Oh, huh. Yeah. Cause remember when Windows AR was gonna be a thing in 2015? And then it wasn't? Oh, yeah. Jesus. And they made paint 3D. That happened. Yeah.

• 1:17:08Speaker 02

  Alright.

• 1:17:09Speaker 01

  I just said Minesweeper. I put Minesweeper as well. And I put Internet Explorer.

• 1:17:15David Imel?

  Oh, cause Internet Explorer was one of them. That was the one with the asterisk, though.

• 1:17:19Speaker 01

  Cause Edge? Oh.

• 1:17:20Speaker 02

  Because Edge has an Internet Explorer mode and technically, technically, Internet Explorer is bundled with Windows 11. It is just hidden from user view. If you have an application that is specifically written to open Internet Explorer, it will still open it, but you yourself, as the user, cannot open Internet Explorer. The other one was?

• 1:17:49David Imel?

  Pinball, Space Pinball.

• 1:17:50Speaker 02

  Skype.

• 1:17:52David Imel?

  Oh, cause they killed Skype.

• 1:17:53Speaker 02

  Cause they replaced it with T.

• 1:17:54Speaker 01

  Oh, yikes.

• 1:17:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:56Speaker 01

  What hap- oh, how far they fall.

• 1:17:58Speaker 04

  Marquez, after that correct answer with seven. Andrew with nine, still in the lead. David with one, two, carry the one, five.

• 1:18:09David Imel?

  It's my turn to feel the pain.

• 1:18:10Speaker 04

  Wow. Okay.

• 1:18:11David Imel?

  That's not that bad.

• 1:18:12Speaker 04

  It's not bad.

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  Bunch of prime numbers, interesting. Nevermind.

• 1:18:16Speaker 04

  What was or what is Xiaomi's mascot? One point for the name, one point for the thing itself.

• 1:18:23David Imel?

  Xiaomi the money.

• 1:18:24Speaker 04

  Xiaomi the money.

• 1:18:25David Imel?

  It's a pile of cash.

• 1:18:26Speaker 04

  Ellis will now freestyle over this break.

• 1:18:31Speaker 02

  No, no, I won't. I won't. Maybe, maybe one day, but not today. What if I drop a beat underneath this? When I rap about Xiaomi?

• 1:18:43David Imel?

  Xiaomi.

• 1:18:43Speaker 02

  Xiaomi.

• 1:18:44David Imel?

  Xiaomi.

• 1:18:45Speaker 02

  Xiao, Xiao?

• 1:18:47David Imel?

  Xiaomi.

• 1:18:47Speaker 02

  Alright.

• 1:18:48Speaker 01

  You guys know Xiaomi makes cars, right?

• 1:18:50David Imel?

  SUV7?

• 1:18:51Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:18:52Speaker 01

  SUV9?

• 1:18:53Speaker 02

  What do we got?

• 1:18:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:18:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:18:58Speaker 01

  Uh, I said a red panda. And that's totally fine. I'm glad I wrote it anyway. And I said its name was Clippy.

• 1:19:07Speaker 04

  Good guess.

• 1:19:08Speaker 01

  Dang.

• 1:19:08Speaker 04

  And by that, I mean terrible guess.

• 1:19:11Andrew Manganelli?

  I just wrote a car. I think someone made a joke about that and then I like, thought I actually remembered hearing something similar.

• 1:19:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:19:18Andrew Manganelli?

  And then I just wrote its name was Xiao Mi.

• 1:19:21Speaker 01

  Not a bad guess.

• 1:19:22David Imel?

  I put a cat, but I was thinking of real meow.

• 1:19:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, you're thinking of real meow.

• 1:19:25David Imel?

  Real Meow was the name.

• 1:19:27Speaker 04

  Okay, what'd you get for the name?

• 1:19:29David Imel?

  Hypercat.

• 1:19:31Speaker 04

  That's a good guess.

• 1:19:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:32Speaker 04

  But no.

• 1:19:32Andrew Manganelli?

  This, is this like, we've talked about this before, haven't we?

• 1:19:36Speaker 04

  I feel like we might have at some point, or it might have been what David said, the cat thing.

• 1:19:40Andrew Manganelli?

  What is it?

• 1:19:40Speaker 04

  It was something like that. The actual mascot was named Mitu, M-I-T-U. And it is a white rabbit.

• 1:19:49David Imel?

  Mitu?

• 1:19:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:19:51David Imel?

  Like a copycat?

• 1:19:53Speaker 04

  But it's a rabbit.

• 1:19:54David Imel?

  Yeah, I can do that too, Apple. The irony is crazy with that one.

• 1:19:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh. Oh, he's kind of cute.

• 1:20:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's kind of cute. So no one gets a point here, unfortunately.

• 1:20:03David Imel?

  It's not like the creepy rabbits with the red eyes.

• 1:20:05Andrew Manganelli?

  I always think like Velveteen Rabbit.

• 1:20:08David Imel?

  Velveteen?

• 1:20:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:11Andrew Manganelli?

  It's a book. No, it's a really weird old book, but like, yeah, it does.

• 1:20:16David Imel?

  Creepy red eyed rabbit.

• 1:20:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:17Speaker 02

  Some of us read children's books from the 30s.

• 1:20:22Andrew Manganelli?

  It is a

• 1:20:23David Imel?

  Goodnight Moon.

• 1:20:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Weird book.

• 1:20:24Speaker 01

  Oh, that's what happens when you don't know the trivia answers. Y'all learned something and I'm glad we learned something today. Other than that, that was a fun episode. We'll be back, of course, with more regularly scheduled programming soon. If you haven't already seen it, go check out the Adam Mosser interview where we talk to him about all things Instagram and the creator economy, et cetera, et cetera. Other than that, see you next week.

• 1:20:44Andrew Manganelli?

  We're joined by Adam Alina and Ellis Roden, a part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. We're going to try out our music. It's created by Vansil.

• 1:20:56Speaker 02

  In the olden days, back in the late 1900s, the olden, that's 20 years ago.

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• 1:21:43Speaker 07

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