Can the iPhone 17 Pro Beat a Leica?

David is back! And after putting the iPhone 17 Pro camera to the test he thought of a fun camera comparison game for us to play (link below if you want to play along). Before that, Marques gives his first impressions using the Meta Display glasses. We also talk about a bunch of new speakers and other hardware from Amazon and Google. We wrap it up with the interview between Marques, James Cameron, and Boz. It's a chaotic episode so we hope you enjoy! Links: Casey Neistat smart glasses video Verge - Amazon event recap New Google Home devices David's slideshow - play along! David's RAW pictures This episode is brought to you by: Shopify - www.shopify.com/waveform Life360 - www.life360.com (code: wave) Spaceship - www.spaceship.com/waveform code: waveform) LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/mkbhd Miro - www.miro.com Zapier - www.zapier.com/wave Music provided by Epidemic Sound Shop the merch! Social: Waveform Threads Waveform Instagram ⁠Waveform TikTok⁠ Hosts: Marques Andrew David Adam Ellis Join the Discord Music by 20syl Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Andrew Manganelli?

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, host Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring your fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting, and what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episodes and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from, but when that context is scattered across tools, threads, and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying blind. That's the problem that Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all these pieces together, from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more, so nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by

• 1:14Speaker 01

  who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com. That's J-I-R-A dot com.

• 1:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Are you watching something, or no?

• 1:24David Imel?

  Did you get...

• 1:33Speaker 01

  Yo, what is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts, I'm Marquez.

• 1:38Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm Andrew.

• 1:39David Imel?

  And I'm David.

• 1:40Speaker 01

  We're all back, and we, of course, have entered Techtober, which means there's still plenty to talk about. There was, what, an Amazon event this week, so there might be some cool stuff there. There was a Google, not an event, but an announcement.

• 1:52David Imel?

  Review.

• 1:53Speaker 01

  As well, and that might also be interesting. David also wants to play a game, I've been told, so we'll get to that.

• 1:59David Imel?

  Let's play it.

• 2:00Speaker 01

  I'm gonna wrap up with some snippets of, remember that James Cameron stuff that we were gonna have last week, but then we ended up arguing about horses and F1 cars?

• 2:06David Imel?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  Totally worth it.

• 2:08David Imel?

  Wait.

• 2:08Speaker 01

  But.

• 2:09David Imel?

  To start off the podcast, I didn't watch last week's episode, but I just heard, I just saw stuff in the Slack about horses.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  We are getting dangerously close to just going right back down that rabbit hole, so I'll just say, we'll watch it later.

• 2:22David Imel?

  And then you can weigh in.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:24David Imel?

  Cause it's, there's two sides to this debate.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Is it like you need a tiebreaker opinion?

• 2:29David Imel?

  Uh, it's just fun to imagine stuff, you know? But we will play those Jams Cameron interview clips for you this week because they're actually kind of interesting. But first, Andrew, show and tell time.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 2:41David Imel?

  What do you have to show us today?

• 2:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you know how normally we put like the really important stuff of the week in the middle of the episode?

• 2:47David Imel?

  Sure.

• 2:47Andrew Manganelli?

  It helps our retention rate, keeps people along. Well, what I've got can't wait.

• 2:52David Imel?

  Wow.

• 2:54Andrew Manganelli?

  This is the pinnacle of the episode. It could be the pinnacle of 2025.

• 2:58Speaker 03

  This is definitely Andrew's crown.

• 2:59Andrew Manganelli?

  But I have with me.

• 3:02Andrew Manganelli?

  The Microsoft XP Crocs. They are in and they are glorious.

• 3:08David Imel?

  I do like the gibbets.

• 3:09Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm going to give you.

• 3:10David Imel?

  Is it giblets or gibbets?

• 3:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you want to hold this, Marquez? I just want you to describe it a little bit.

• 3:14David Imel?

  I don't. I don't want to.

• 3:17Andrew Manganelli?

  They are the greatest. They are every ounce of perfect that I thought they could be. They come in a nice little bag. That's the Windows XP Hillside Cloud background. They themselves have it on the top with like green on the bottom. And the gibbets are recycling cursor, the MSN butterfly.

• 3:40Andrew Manganelli?

  What a folder.

• 3:41David Imel?

  Files.

• 3:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Files, yeah. Internet Explorer and Clippy.

• 3:45Speaker 03

  There are no words to explain my hatred of this product.

• 3:47Andrew Manganelli?

  That is so.

• 3:49David Imel?

  I have a question. Okay, so the inside of the croc.

• 3:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Correct.

• 3:53David Imel?

  Has all of these like divots, but they're negative divots. What do they call that?

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Indentations?

• 4:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Is it? No.

• 4:00David Imel?

  No, but they're opposite.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Oh, positive.

• 4:02David Imel?

  But divots go in.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  Are they engraved or embossed?

• 4:06David Imel?

  Insets.

• 4:06Speaker 03

  Wouldn't that be debossed?

• 4:08David Imel?

  They're bumps.

• 4:10Andrew Manganelli?

  It's braille.

• 4:11David Imel?

  It's braille. Yeah. Okay. So the Crocs have a ton of braille inside.

• 4:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Texture, yeah.

• 4:16David Imel?

  Doesn't that hurt your feet?

• 4:17Andrew Manganelli?

  No, they wear out.

• 4:18Speaker 03

  It's for grip.

• 4:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Haven't you ever worn those like Adidas slides that everyone was obsessed with for a while? You know what I'm talking about?

• 4:26Andrew Manganelli?

  The whole bottom were just like these little.

• 4:28David Imel?

  Yeah, those hurt my feet a lot.

• 4:29Andrew Manganelli?

  I didn't love them. These wear out pretty quickly. I actually think they're more comfortable once these wear out. It's just a little texture so your foot doesn't slide around as much.

• 4:36David Imel?

  Texture on my foot implies you're wearing these so often.

• 4:41David Imel?

  That's your wear.

• 4:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Wear your kicks, bro.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  The irony of me wearing the shoes right now that are like, where are your kicks?

• 4:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, you are wearing them.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. This is a men's 10, but it looks like a I shouldn't say it.

• 4:53Andrew Manganelli?

  It's pretty big.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  Like a 14.

• 4:56Andrew Manganelli?

  They're pretty big. They, I don't know, they're fantastic. I think the funniest story about this is like, Marquez wasn't here in the episode when we talked about these getting

• 5:05Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 5:06Andrew Manganelli?

  And so like a week ago, he's forwards me a screenshot of this email from Microsoft saying, hey, Marquez, would love to send you a pair of these. Let me know your shoe size. And Marquez screenshots it, puts it in Slack and says, Andrew, I just want you to know I said no to this. And I replied, I ordered those a month ago. Don't worry. So shout out to Corey. He works at Microsoft and he got me hooked up with these. I had to go through him. Like 10 people from Microsoft reached out and was like, I'll order them for you.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  This is, this is, okay, here's my question. Cause you seem to like Crocs and no matter how ugly they make them, you seem to like them more and more. Is there something they could put on Crocs that would make you not?

• 5:46Andrew Manganelli?

  There's a lot of really bad Crocs.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  Vista on the Crocs, would you still like to wear them?

• 5:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Vista?

• 5:51Speaker 01

  Like Vista themed.

• 5:52Andrew Manganelli?

  No, it's Vista.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  So there is a line somewhere.

• 5:55Andrew Manganelli?

  There's a line. There's lots of Croc lines. They've hit them. Have you seen the high heels?

• 5:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:00Andrew Manganelli?

  They're rough. No, there's plenty of bad Crocs. I like just the OG clog. This one's a little fun. There's a KFC fried chicken one.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  I don't know if I've ever actually seen you wear them though.

• 6:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Crocs?

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:14Andrew Manganelli?

  That's cause Marquez

• 6:15Speaker 01

  I banned them.

• 6:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Bullies me whenever I wear them.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  I banned them from the

• 6:19Andrew Manganelli?

  We've had, we've had days where Marquez is out and the like five of us in the office go like, Crocs day? Question mark. And we all wear them.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  I have to, I want to ban Crocs without banning Crocs. I'll ban like open toed clothes, toe shoes.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Think of like chefs are one of like the strictest types of shoes you can wear in a kitchen and Crocs. Yeah. Because you don't want anything dropping on your foot and they need to be non-slip.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  What are chefs?

• 6:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Kitchen's a chef? You want to know what a chef is?

• 6:50Speaker 01

  No, like the, is that a type of shoe?

• 6:52Andrew Manganelli?

  No, no, no, it's a person. It's a, it's a career.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  I was saying it was a type of fish.

• 7:00Speaker 01

  Sorry. Chef footwear.

• 7:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Lots of chefs wear Crocs. You were Googling that already. Cause like, did he mishear me? And then he typed in C H E F and I was like, I'm so confused right?

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 7:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes. Sorry.

• 7:12Speaker 03

  We can end it there if you would like, but uh, no.

• 7:15Speaker 01

  Chef's shoes.

• 7:16Speaker 03

  These are, these are work shoes.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  I guess.

• 7:20Speaker 03

  They put in work.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  I guess, yeah.

• 7:22Speaker 03

  But second, I don't like the divots. The most interesting and important news of the week is that it has been announced that Bad Bunny will be playing the last Philadelphia Eagles game of the NFL season.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  I see.

• 7:39Speaker 03

  Was the joke there that the Birds are making the Super Bowl? Yes.

• 7:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you need to hear the sound again?

• 7:45Speaker 03

  I didn't, I could barely hear it. Sorry, I think the mics are screwed up.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  Um, what are they saying?

• 7:53Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  Are we still a tech podcast?

• 7:57Speaker 03

  We're just talking about Windows XP.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  Technically it was a Windows XP. I don't know if this can be tied in somehow to tech as well, but that did get announced.

• 8:04Speaker 03

  Something, something, go Birds.

• 8:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:07Speaker 03

  Go Birds.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Go Birds. Speaking of things that-

• 8:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Wow, that was crazy. That was the quadruple go Birds on the Waveform Podcast. They're all converted.

• 8:15Speaker 03

  I think Saquon Barkley pops up if you say it that many times.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  Speaking, let's see, speaking of things that are, that can fly because they're so lightweight.

• 8:27Speaker 03

  Birds, Birds fly into Windows all the time, which we were just talking about.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  And Windows are clear, kinda like what I'm wearing on my face right now.

• 8:36Speaker 03

  We got there.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  So, okay, so video viewers have already noticed that-

• 8:40Speaker 03

  I got Birds, boy.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  Nice find. That's an elite find.

• 8:45Speaker 03

  Good Birds.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  Uh, okay, so, so video users have noticed that I'm wearing a certain pair of glasses. Maybe you've clocked them even already as the exact pair of glasses that I'm wearing, uh, which is the Meta Ray-Ban displays. So not just the Meta Ray-Bans with the cameras and stuff, but I could be scrolling Instagram right now.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  Matter of fact, I have been this entire. No, I'm just kidding. No, but you, okay. So basically I've got the neural band on as well. I only set this up like 10 minutes ago, so I don't even have Instagram and WhatsApp plugged in, but I can pull up the UI right now. And it's up and I can start scrolling around and this, this brings us right back to where I ended the video that I made about them, which is, is the future, is the future of computing going to end up in a place where I could be looking at my UI in front of my face and it's glasses. So it's on my face. So it kind of looks like I'm looking at you, but I'm straight up not looking at you right now. I'm reading something.

• 9:45Andrew Manganelli?

  If I try really hard, I can see like a, now, now I can't. It's really hard to see. There was like a glimpse, the picture.

• 9:55Speaker 01

  When I take a picture, it's really obvious because it lights up the little camera lens. Uh, but yeah, it is.

• 10:00Andrew Manganelli?

  It's almost impossible to see you're looking at something. I feel like for a second, I thought, I thought I could see there's a line like here, but I think that's the wave.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  The wave guide.

• 10:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Then I thought I saw like the top of the box first.

• 10:13Speaker 03

  I will say, I went fully around him 360 degrees while he was doing something and I could not see anything.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  I think because we've got a, we've got a bright point light source right, right.

• 10:23Speaker 03

  No, I was out in the, by his desk.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  I know. I'm saying because we have this, I can see it a little bit at certain angles.

• 10:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Is something up right now?

• 10:29Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 10:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Trying to see if I can see the reflection in your eye.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Oh yeah.

• 10:34Speaker 03

  What is he looking at?

• 10:35Speaker 01

  I don't know. I mean, they get, I'm looking at album art right now because I was, I paused my music, which is on Spotify. It is really bright and very viewable to me, obviously. Isn't it like 3,000, 5,000 nits? 5,000 nits. I don't know exactly how they measure that. It's a projector. It's a wave guide. It's a whole system. It goes away automatically. So I'll bring it back. And I can read it pretty easily and just go glance back and forth between the person I'm talking to and the little art. And I can even put a little backdrop on it with my hand. But yeah, I, I am clearly in the metaverse now. Why did they make him glossy? Uh, good question. I think matte would have looked better one, and it still would have worked with the, with the sliding touch bar on the side, which is like a secondary input method. Uh, I don't know why they're glossy. Maybe that's just the first version.

• 11:20Speaker 03

  Ray Bans are always glossy.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  Is that true? I like the matte ones.

• 11:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Not always. They have like a million different styles at this world.

• 11:26Speaker 03

  Like the, the classic.

• 11:27Andrew Manganelli?

  The Blues Brothers Ray Bans.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're just trying to be the classic.

• 11:31Speaker 03

  The what? That's why gamers say GG.

• 11:34Speaker 04

  Glossy glasses.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  That's what I've been saying. So yeah, these are $800. They come with the NeuroBand, which I'm wearing, which I also set up. They set up in maybe 10 minutes and got a quick software update. So it was actually pretty easy. And yeah, I just want to echo that this is a real thing that's going to start happening out in the world. Casey and I just made a really good video, by the way, about these, which was kind of comparing the future of mobile computing from two of the biggest companies working on stuff like this, which was Apple Vision Pro and Meta Ray-Ban's Display. Two very different products, but two very futuristic things. So go watch that. We'll link it below.

• 12:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I try? Can we try?

• 12:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can actually.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  First impressions.

• 12:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I'm interested on if we, we also have already confirmed that I can ask Meta to do things for my glasses.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  It worked at least once, but try that. You can, you should be able to see the Albemarle.

• 12:28Speaker 04

  So this isn't like the Vision Pro where only one person can wear them at a time, basically.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Well, I have the control mechanism on my wrist right now, so I don't know how much he can do. Like maps? Do you see it? Can you give him the NeuroBand?

• 12:40Andrew Manganelli?

  I feel like that's not that easy.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  Can you hand him the NeuroBand or is it hard to take off? Probably could, but it is hard to take off.

• 12:45Andrew Manganelli?

  It's hard to take off?

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Well, there's a whole like clasp thing.

• 12:48Andrew Manganelli?

  I thought it was like a snap bracelet.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  But you do, if I hit, do you still see the Albemarle?

• 12:53Andrew Manganelli?

  It's weird because when both eyes are open, the left side of it seems like it's fading a little bit. Am I like cross-eyed?

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Sorry, Andrew.

• 13:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Glasses for this?

• 13:04Speaker 01

  Sorry, Andrew.

• 13:05Andrew Manganelli?

  If I hold my left eye, it's like perfect.

• 13:07Speaker 04

  You are making some really funny faces.

• 13:11Andrew Manganelli?

  I feel like everyone's been commenting that I make some really dumb faces on the podcast already because I look up a lot when I'm thinking. But I'm probably making even dumber. Whoa, it's gone.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  It's gone? Is it back?

• 13:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, there it is.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I brought it back. I got the control.

• 13:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Is that all there?

• 13:26Speaker 04

  Andrew, how does it compare to the demo glasses we tried?

• 13:29Andrew Manganelli?

  It's vastly different. The field of view is, well, because the field of view is totally different, but remember the demo glasses were in our whole field of view is a lot. This is definitely. Here.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  Down into the right.

• 13:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Like down into the right a bit. It is very bright and I almost feel like the resolution is better than the demo glass.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  What do you see? What do you see now? The resolution is better than the Orion glasses.

• 13:49Andrew Manganelli?

  It's better and I think the biggest thing is the Orion glasses had like a tint to them because it very clearly wasn't a, this is, this is clear.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  You're just in the menu, right?

• 13:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, just a menu. They're thick. They're really thick.

• 14:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, so if you saw someone out watching these, I think this is like a double take pair of glasses. I think there's like a line, like regular glasses out in public, I don't really think twice. I don't, I don't double take at all. Super, super obvious camera and computer on face glasses. I don't even double take. I just look and I know exactly what it is. This is somewhere in between. I think there are some places where I would not think twice. There are some places where I would go, oh, is it kind of thick or weird?

• 14:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  And it just depends on the person, what they're wearing, where they are.

• 14:31Andrew Manganelli?

  I would think that someone wearing this has like a visual problem.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  You think they're like super thick glasses?

• 14:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, they are very thick.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Like bifocals or something.

• 14:39Andrew Manganelli?

  It's funny, but it doesn't do the bifocal effect where your eyes inside the glasses look larger because of magnification.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, they don't do that. Can you open the main menu?

• 14:47Andrew Manganelli?

  I will.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  Where are you now? Uh, on the Spotify thing.

• 14:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, it's funny. At this angle, I can see like red, green, blue, which is probably like the wave guide.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  Okay, wait.

• 14:57Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like a prism.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  To the right. Okay, down, down one. Don't press play. Select.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  And down.

• 15:07Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  Ah, you have to download English.

• 15:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, it's gonna be live translation.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just set these up so I don't have my WhatsApp connected. I don't have the downloaded languages for the live captioning, but I'm gonna try all this stuff.

• 15:22Andrew Manganelli?

  From an angle, you can start seeing some parts of the wave guide. Like I can see a box in his eye now.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. What was I gonna say? I think it's interesting because does Meta want these to blend in perfectly? Or do they want people to know people are using their product? It's definitely a fine line there of we want these to just feel like glasses, but also like. When you make a product, you want a product to be known when it's seen out in public.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think this first default version, which is glossy black, just says Ray-Bans tries to look like normal glasses. I think they want them to look like normal glasses. I think there will be more fashionable versions in the future that make a statement and also say, hey, I'm using the smart glasses. But I think to me, this is trying to look like normal glasses.

• 16:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 16:04David Imel?

  This is really sharp.

• 16:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Really thick.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:06David Imel?

  Surprisingly sharp.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. And this is the carrying case, by the way, in case you didn't see the video.

• 16:14Andrew Manganelli?

  This is so, I mean, that's probably the best part about them.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  That was sick.

• 16:17Andrew Manganelli?

  They, yeah, for audio listeners.

• 16:20Speaker 01

  For audio listeners.

• 16:20Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like totally flat and it like pops up to charge again, but when you have them out of the case, it can fold almost entirely flat.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:27David Imel?

  So these are the $800 ones.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  These are the $800 Meta Ray-Ban Display. Uh, yeah, that's the diagnostic port that pops off and you can plug it in. Uh, we didn't have to do that while we shot, but that's what that is.

• 16:40Andrew Manganelli?

  All right, pop off.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, pop off, King. Uh, this is, this is that. It is, uh, I don't know, should I review them? Should I do more like IRL? I don't know what to do with them, to be honest.

• 16:51David Imel?

  You gotta review them.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  I don't, yeah.

• 16:53Andrew Manganelli?

  It's hard.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, yeah, a review is tough unless you're in that ecosystem of WhatsApp and like, I don't see those being useful for a full day of what they want unless you're in WhatsApp.

• 17:04David Imel?

  Just become European, it'll be fun.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  Well, it's more just that I don't know what else to say about them other than what I already said, like, how long does the battery life last? Maybe that's interesting. What types of reactions do people have when you reveal that you are not looking at them anymore? That type of stuff, maybe, but yeah.

• 17:21David Imel?

  Trying to think about like, where would this fit into someone's actual life? And is this something that regular people would yet buy?

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:28David Imel?

  Or are we still like a little bit further away from the one that people could just feasibly buy and it would be nice?

• 17:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. How well does a live translation work? Do I want to use it all the time?

• 17:38David Imel?

  Right.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, things like that.

• 17:39David Imel?

  Are they gimmicks or are they things that you actually end up wanting to use?

• 17:42Speaker 01

  Are they dope or nope?

• 17:44David Imel?

  That was, wasn't that a ChatGPT generated, um?

• 17:47Andrew Manganelli?

  No, that's Judd Ners, right? That's his series?

• 17:51Speaker 01

  What's ours called?

• 17:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, it's just called Dope 10.

• 17:54David Imel?

  Or Clown or Clown.

• 17:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, Crown and Clown.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  Are they Crown or Clown?

• 17:56David Imel?

  Which, by the way, it's October 1st.

• 17:58Speaker 01

  Oh. Might be time for another one of those. Either way, it did come out. You know what is definitely a crown?

• 18:04Andrew Manganelli?

  What?

• 18:04Speaker 01

  MX Master 4 came out.

• 18:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Hell, yeah.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  And it's pretty great. And the fun fact, the fun fact is we've been testing them for like a month now because Logitech came by the studio with very, very early versions and they showed them to us. Oh, you brought yours?

• 18:16Andrew Manganelli?

  I brought it in.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  Um, is it disconnected?

• 18:18Andrew Manganelli?

  It's disconnected. You can do.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  It is a similar shape, but just better materials. And then it also has a haptic motor, I guess is what you'd call it.

• 18:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Action ring, yeah.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  For, um, a certain side button that you press and it's nice.

• 18:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, yeah. I mean, the, I think the new materials, I actually don't really use ergonomic mice, but I've been using this one a lot. The new materials won't get that like rubber peeling that the old.

• 18:43Speaker 01

  Oh, that's good.

• 18:44Andrew Manganelli?

  MX Masters did like. I'm about to hand it to you. We all have one already. Um, the materials seem way better. The, it's a little more ergonomic with the horizontal wheel. Uh, there's an extra gesture button next to the front and back button, which is awesome because if you press it and swipe left or right, you can go between spaces on your, um, your Mac or if you press it in, it does the.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  Mission control.

• 19:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Mission control.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Um, and then, yeah, so where your thumb rests, there's this like pad that has a haptic feedback button. That's crazy customizable where you can do like how sensitive is and how much the feedback is when you press it. And it brings up this action ring, kind of like the Grand Theft Auto weapon select where when you press it.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  Basically, actually, yeah.

• 19:24Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like as a dial and like based on if you pull up, left, right, you can go to each of those, um, different.

• 19:31Speaker 01

  Actions.

• 19:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Actions, yeah.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  They're all pre, they're all programmable. So customizable, you can set up like six or seven of them to be whatever you want.

• 19:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I think Eric set one up to open like chat GPT or something. I have mine. I just do it. It opens up the like where we do new outlines for the podcast. So just if I'm going to write a new episode, I can just press that button, drag down and click it. Um, and it's also in some of their programs, mostly Adobe ones now, but you can do like Photoshop tools on the.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  That's cool.

• 19:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Ring and stuff.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Some of it doesn't work great. Some of it works really well. Some of it, one issue I have is like in Photoshop, if you want to just change opacity, what's cool is you can open the action ring, hover it and then scroll to go up and down.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 20:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Um, just like within the little action wheel.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:16Andrew Manganelli?

  But in the history. Almost like when you scroll up a couple like 20%, it does like 20 actions in the history, which just fills up your history totally. That's a big issue I have with it right now in that, but um, the customizable stuff will happen. We'll see if how open they make it to other programs and such.

• 20:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, between this and Raycast, I'm living in heaven right now.

• 20:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Adam's just one-handed, does everything.

• 20:42David Imel?

  Interesting combo, because Raycast is all about that keyboard.

• 20:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, but if I set, so what I did was I have a shortcut on Raycast where I hit Option N and it creates a new folder structure with a script that I have for like the podcast. So instead of even doing that, I also have that Option N as a keyboard shortcut on the wheel. What is it, that action?

• 21:04David Imel?

  Action ring.

• 21:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, action ring. So I could just like hit it, it automatically does that keyboard shortcut, which hits Option N. I could also just selected the script and run it that way if I wanted to, so it goes either way, but yeah.

• 21:14David Imel?

  It's good to have options.

• 21:16Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 21:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you know what the best part about this mouse is? The dongle is USB C.

• 21:20David Imel?

  Oh, that's actually the best part.

• 21:21Andrew Manganelli?

  It's so good.

• 21:22David Imel?

  It's the entirety.

• 21:23Speaker 03

  These mice have, uh, they use Bluetooth, but they have a 2.4 gigahertz dongle. I think it's 2.4.

• 21:29Andrew Manganelli?

  I forget everyone uses Bluetooth.

• 21:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Maybe I'm way more excited about this. I use my dongles for all my mice.

• 21:35David Imel?

  The dongle is nice because it stops interference and it makes it so the computer knows exactly what it's talking to, but yeah, they switched to USB C, which is nice. However, I would advise, um, similarly to the Samsung Galaxy Note 4, when people were putting the S Pen in backwards and it was breaking it, um, I put my dongle in the mouse and it was really hard to get out.

• 22:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Where do you put it in the mouse?

• 22:01David Imel?

  In the charge port. Oh, don't do that.

• 22:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, why?

• 22:04David Imel?

  I thought, I was like, it's good storage. And then it was.

• 22:07Andrew Manganelli?

  I would have never even thought of it. That's a good idea. But now that I know it's hard to get out.

• 22:12Speaker 03

  Why can't you do that, though? That makes, that seems like it should work.

• 22:15David Imel?

  Yeah, I mean, it works.

• 22:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Is it just because it's like, there's like.

• 22:17David Imel?

  It's like hard to outlet into. Yeah, it's like infinite power. Yeah, it's like, okay, the dongle is connected to the mouse.

• 22:25Andrew Manganelli?

  You know, you say that, I'm sure that people will buy this mouse.

• 22:27David Imel?

  Zero lag.

• 22:28Andrew Manganelli?

  And be like, my dongle's not working. And it's plugged into the front.

• 22:32David Imel?

  I'm just, I'm just saying, like, you can store the dongle in the charge port. But there's no, like, rib. There's no lip. There's no lip. Yeah. And it's very hard to get out unless you have, like, really big nails. And then you're gonna crack your nails and then you're gonna be happy.

• 22:47Andrew Manganelli?

  I never would have thought of that.

• 22:47David Imel?

  Well, I did, and it was unfortunate. That's a good PSA. Yeah. Yeah, wow, good. I'm glad you thought of that. Infinite power. Okay. Okay.

• 22:55Andrew Manganelli?

  You know what else has infinite power?

• 22:57David Imel?

  What else does?

• 23:00Andrew Manganelli?

  The Echo Show?

• 23:01David Imel?

  How was that? Okay, we had an Amazon event, um, yesterday as of the time of recording. There was a lot of stuff. This started in like 2017 or so where Amazon would have these events and they would just drop like 50 products. Here is a bunch of new stuff and all of it has our Assistant built in. Yeah, the most iconic one was like the first one they ever did where they put Alexa in a, like, a clock and a microwave.

• 23:25David Imel?

  That was during the Internet of Things era. I'm really glad that's over. But, well, sort of. Now, uh, they had another event where they also were putting Alexa Plus in a lot of products. Uh, but they're also just updating their whole lineup of smart speakers and other things like that. Uh, so we got a new Echo Show 8 and 11. The 11 inch is very large, but effectively this kind of looks a lot like what we expected the Apple Home Pad to look like. Where it kind of looks like a HomePod in the back with this like fiber mesh. And then you have a tablet just kind of like mounted to the front. Um, and it's a much better display. The 8 inch one is 720p, which is a little low resolution, but it's a small tablet, so I guess it's okay.

• 24:10David Imel?

  The 11 is 1080p, trash. No, 1080 is nice. Yeah, uh, it has a 13 megapixel wide-angle camera for video calls and things like that. They're a little bit expensive, but I assume that these things are gonna go on sale literally constantly for Prime Day, because usually Prime Day is just Buy Our Products Day. So yeah, it's $179.99 for the 8" and $219.99 for the 11" inch. We also got an Echo Dot Max, which is kind of ironic, because the entire point of the Echo Dot was to be an Echo but small, and now there's a big one, so it's-

• 24:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Does this not look like-

• 24:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 24:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Because it's like a sphere with a flat part with all the controls. Does it not look like that's where they just attached-

• 24:51David Imel?

  So that's what I actually wrote in the script. Yeah, basically the show without the screen. It is a much more powerful speaker. Amazon is claiming 3X the bass response over the original Echo Dot. It has speaker controls with an LED ring in the front. It's $100 up from $50 from the original Echo Dot. So, though the price, but it should have much better sound quality. There's a new Echo Studio, and I'm going to be honest, I did not remember that the original Echo Studio was a thing.

• 25:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I just say, my favorite part about this photo of the Echo Dot Max is, there's nothing scale-wise here. I cannot figure out how big this is.

• 25:29David Imel?

  That's true. That could be a microscope.

• 25:31Andrew Manganelli?

  It's literally just like a wood surface and a white wall behind it, and not a single other object for me to tell how big that is.

• 25:38David Imel?

  Yeah. Amazon is very much trying to get back in your house. They were like really winning the smart speaker race for a very long time, and then Google started just flooding the zone, and it's everywhere now. Yes, now they have an Echo Studio, new one, because there was an old one, apparently, that I just didn't really even clock. It kinda looks- it looks a lot like the Echo Dot Max, but it's black, which means it's Pro.

• 26:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Hell, yeah.

• 26:04David Imel?

  The old one actually kinda looked like the Trashcan Mac Pro. I looked it up, and it's very weird. It's kinda got like cylindrical shape with like a little cutout in the side. Yeah, strange. It supports Dolby Atmos and Spatial Audio, so you can link up to five of them, as well as linking them with the Echo Dot Max, and you can link them to a Fire TV stick to have surround sound audio. I'm looking for the person out there that's like, "I love ecosystems, but you know what ecosystem I love the most? Amazon."

• 26:35Speaker 01

  Time to connect my Echo Dot to my Echo Studio.

• 26:37David Imel?

  Yeah, like maybe my dad, I don't know.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  Fire stick in my Amazon TV.

• 26:42David Imel?

  Exact, yeah, so you can link up of, you can link five of these to a Fire TV stick and have surround sound.

• 26:48Speaker 01

  Five, interesting.

• 26:49David Imel?

  Yeah, up, up to five, so total surround. Their new Kindle Scribes, which I think is probably the most, the most interesting thing they dropped because they're really trying to compete with Remarkable, if you know that tablet company. They're like an e Ink, e Paper tablet company, very premium, fairly expensive, but they've sort of been the benchmark. And I think it was, it was either one or two years ago, Amazon released the original Kindle Scribe, which was basically supposed to be the Remarkable tablet, but a lot cheaper. More integrations with Kindle, all of that kind of stuff, which makes sense. But they finally released their color version to compete with Remarkable.

• 27:26David Imel?

  Called the Kindle Scribe Color Soft. It has two weeks of battery life. You can highlight, draw, and write in color on it. It's $630, which for an Amazon product is very, very expensive.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Primo, wow.

• 27:39David Imel?

  And I don't, I feel like their markup on this must be ridiculous.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  The Remarkable.

• 27:43David Imel?

  Is the same price.

• 27:44Speaker 01

  Is, it is.

• 27:45David Imel?

  For the Pro.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm on their website right now.

• 27:48David Imel?

  You're looking at the portable one.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  Oh, they have a big one.

• 27:50David Imel?

  They have a big one. The big one is also $630. I think that Amazon just thought, well, technically, we have integrations with Alexa now. We have, you can AI summarize different parts of the things that you're reading, I guess. I don't know. I, I, I think that they just have more, they think they have more integrations and they have a better distribution system. So they think that they can charge the same amount as the Remarkable, and they're probably right, because most people don't know about the Remarkable, whereas Amazon can just throw it at the front of the page constantly. They have two other Kindle Scribes. They have a new entry level one, which is $430. This stuff is like really expensive for what it is. Like you can buy an iPad for much cheaper than this.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, you gotta really want this specific form factor and screen technology.

• 28:32David Imel?

  Exactly.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  To pay $400, $500, $600 for it.

• 28:35David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  Over any other tablet.

• 28:37Speaker 03

  Adam has two of them.

• 28:40Speaker 01

  I wouldn't be shocked.

• 28:42David Imel?

  And then there, so that's $430, and then there's another model that's a frontlit model that they're charging an extra $70 for, just to get a front light. To be able to actually.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  You can use it in dim lights.

• 28:53David Imel?

  In dim lighting. Yeah, they're all 11 inches. They have thinner bezels and they have AI features. Yeah.

• 29:00Speaker 03

  I really don't get what the use case of this is.

• 29:02Andrew Manganelli?

  I can't believe we have AI paper.

• 29:07David Imel?

  Yeah, I don't know. I mean, people really like them. People that use remarkable products are very, very happy with them.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 29:13David Imel?

  Uh, it's, it's nice to kind of have that paper experience, but like Adam said, there are many sort of adaptive ways to have an iPad feel like paper. There's all the, the different screen stuff you can put on top of it. Ellis is nodding his head back and forth in a disproving mode. Yeah, they're kind of bad.

• 29:30Speaker 04

  I thought I was gonna love it. And then one day I came to work and Adam had it on his iPad mini and I was like, what did you do to your iPad?

• 29:38David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 29:40Andrew Manganelli?

  But that then cost me $640.

• 29:42Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 29:43David Imel?

  Touche. Uh, there's new Fire TVs. If you remember, which you might not, because Amazon is not that memorable of a company. They released their own TVs, their own QLED TVs, like last year or the year before.

• 29:55Andrew Manganelli?

  I did not know that.

• 29:56David Imel?

  Yeah, they actually sell Amazon branded Fire TV TVs that are not just the stick, but are actually QLEDs.

• 30:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Who makes them?

• 30:03Speaker 01

  Amazon Basics TV.

• 30:04David Imel?

  Probably LG or something. It's probably their like C tier display panels or whatever. Uh, so now they have new Fire TV Omni QLEDs, and I hate that that's a string of words. They're brighter. They have better processors. Uh, they have Dolby Vision and HDR 10 plus. And they can automatically adjust the color of this display based on the ambient lighting of your room, which is sort of like, um, True Tone, right? Yeah. They are 50 to 75 inches, starting at $479. And also there are new two and four series TVs with slimmer bezels and faster processors, starting at $159. So. This is gonna be that Black Friday, like crazy 50% off.

• 30:46Andrew Manganelli?

  You just search like TV on Black Friday and they should throw this to the.

• 30:50David Imel?

  They're gonna sell so many of this stuff. Uh, and then there's a bunch of new Ring cameras that do 2 and 4K resolution. They have this thing they call Retinal Vision, which is kind of just like an AI upscaling pipeline, similar to what Apple talked about when they say, because Apple on the new iPhone said in the 2X crops and the 8X crop, they have a new pipeline.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  Optical quality.

• 31:12David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  That's what they say.

• 31:13David Imel?

  Which is the same thing that like Ring is basically saying is the thing. Yeah.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  AI doorbells now.

• 31:20David Imel?

  Uh, well, we got, we had those. Yeah, we've had them.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:22David Imel?

  But yeah, I don't know. It's, it's sort of just that like, you want smart home stuff from Amazon on Black Friday? Here's the new version.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  That's what Techtober is all about sometimes.

• 31:33Speaker 01

  We want all our stuff on the shelves before the holiday season, so here it is.

• 31:37David Imel?

  But yeah, much more interestingly, we got a preview of a new Google Home speaker. Not surprisingly, they are yet again getting rid of the Nest name, and I'm sure that in 2027, they'll bring it back.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  No, this, this is for real. This is for real.

• 31:54David Imel?

  For real for now.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  I feel like this is for real. I got briefed on this, and this felt like somebody who used Google Home, who works for Google, was finally like, "Hey, should we fix this?" And they did.

• 32:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  I think. So I, I hope to get the update soon, but I've now seen all the new Google Home stuff, and essentially, they plan on finally getting the last of the stuff that they've been making that only works with the Nest app out of it, so it can all work with Google.

• 32:18David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  If you had a Nest Aware subscription, that's now a Google, what's it called? Google something subscription?

• 32:23Speaker 03

  I think I got the email about that changing.

• 32:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. I just got that too. So it's all Google. The subscription's now Google. They're revamping the Home app to be faster and to work with all these new things. They have a couple new accessories. They have a new doorbell, a new indoor camera, and I think a new outdoor camera as well. A couple new partnerships. So there's like a cheaper, like a Walmart partnership for like a $22 camera and like a $45 doorbell. So that's

• 32:46David Imel?

  What does that mean? Like if you buy it at a specific store, it's cheaper?

• 32:50Speaker 01

  I think it's, they made it in, let me find, I think they made it in collaboration with Walmart, which is why it's so cheap. Is that what my notes say?

• 32:58David Imel?

  We live in hell.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  Hey, it's cheap. $22 for, for a camera is like Wise territory.

• 33:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was gonna say Wise is like running the game within that price category. So this is where they're trying to get in.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  So yes, Google Home Premium subscription, and all of this stuff now is going to work with Gemini. So all the stuff we have already in our homes that use the crummy Google Assistant that's just been aging and failing and not working very well is going to be updated to Gemini, and They have some new stuff. I think the latest generations of the stuff we have will work with Gemini Live, but also the new stuff will work with Gemini Live as well. So you can say, "Hey G, start a chat." And then you're doing the whole Gemini Live back and forth conversation thing with all the context and the, you know, whatever it tells you. Yeah. Versus just a regular, "Hey G," and then ask it a question, and then, "Hey G," again, and then ask a follow-up question. Yeah. You can do a whole conversation. So- Which Gemini Live is a paid feature. You have to have the premium subscription.

• 33:54Speaker 01

  In, yeah, one of the subscription tiers.

• 33:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. I don't, I'm looking right now because it said, like, I got the email that said, "Your Nest Aware is now being upgraded to Google Home Premium."

• 34:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:04Andrew Manganelli?

  And then there's the Standard and Advanced Plan.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  So Google Home Premium is, is that launched now officially?

• 34:09Andrew Manganelli?

  It sounds like it got, that's, because I got the email saying, "This is what it is now."

• 34:13Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 34:14Andrew Manganelli?

  So it sounds like that is out.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  Delete the Nest app. It's over. It's finally gone.

• 34:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Um, I don't see anything saying that I get the subscription notifications. Search video history? That's actually pretty cool. Like, AI search through history, because you have all of your events saved for 60 days, and then you get, um, if you're in advanced, you get 24/7 history for 10 days. So if I can search through that-

• 34:40Speaker 01

  With your voice.

• 34:40Andrew Manganelli?

  With my voice, or even just like recognizing, I'm assuming I can type in and it can recognize what happens, right?

• 34:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. I saw, I got to do a demo and try some of this stuff. It seemed to be really straightforward. Not only can you, uh, create automations with your voice, so if you want it to go, "Hey, every morning when I ask for this, open the shades and turn the lights on," or whatever. But you can also go, "Hey, show me when the squirrel ran across my driveway." And it will just find the clip when the last time the squirrel ran across your driveway was and played it, because Gemini is plugged in now. It can figure this stuff out for camera feed.

• 35:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Also says event descriptions. It says more detailed event descriptions. Tell the whole story on cameras and doorbells.

• 35:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, so right now, if you have an event from the Google Home app, it'll just say, "Motion in driveway." Or "Front door motion detected," or "Person detected," and sometimes even a familiar face it'll name. Now, it will describe what's happening. So it'll say, "UPS guy holding flowers and brown box-delivered package," instead of-

• 35:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Will it do this retroactively? Because I do have a clip the other day of me accidentally hitting Lane in the face with the door and it's on the doorbell.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:49Andrew Manganelli?

  I need to see if I can describe this.

• 35:50Speaker 04

  What happens if you go up to a Ring doorbell, wearing a T-shirt that says, "Ignore all previous instructions"?

• 35:57Speaker 01

  Wearing a T-shirt?

• 35:58Speaker 04

  Like, can you prompt inject the model?

• 36:01Speaker 01

  Unlikely.

• 36:02David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 36:02Speaker 01

  Uh, but we'll probably put some of that in the description and the notification.

• 36:07David Imel?

  I just need to read-

• 36:07Speaker 01

  Person wearing shirt with text.

• 36:09David Imel?

  I need to read Google's keyword blog because it is so confusing. The headline is, "We're introducing the new Home Premium subscription plus new benefits for AI Pro and AI Ultra subscribers."

• 36:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:21David Imel?

  And there are multiple plans.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  So AI Pro and AI Ultra subscribers are going to get, with their subscription, one of these levels of, uh, the home subscription.

• 36:30Andrew Manganelli?

  These are the two Nest plans that just have new names now.

• 36:33David Imel?

  No longer Nest.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  No longer Nest.

• 36:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 36:34David Imel?

  Yeah, okay, so the standard plan, which is $10 a month or $100 a year, gives you Gemini Live, uh, and Ask Home for Automation Help, 30 days of video history and intelligent camera alerts. And then the advanced plan, which is $20 a month or $200 a year, includes all standard features plus Gemini camera capabilities such as AI event descriptions, home brief summaries, and searchable video history. So you have to pay 20 a month if you want to do the AI video stuff.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  10 a month and 20 a month.

• 37:05David Imel?

  Yeah, but if you have AI, Google AI Pro and Ultra, I hate this. This is insane. There needs to be a flowchart for this.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  There actually does, yeah.

• 37:14David Imel?

  I, ugh, Google.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  The nice thing is Ultra is just you get all of the things.

• 37:18David Imel?

  Yeah, but it's $200 a month.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  It's $1,000 every minute you use it.

• 37:21David Imel?

  Yeah, it's $200 a month.

• 37:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:24David Imel?

  Nobody wants to pay that.

• 37:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:25David Imel?

  It's insane.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  So, yeah, it is all, I think, functionally all way better, and I cannot wait to get this app update so I can stop using the Nest app and stop using the old Google Assistant, which is, at this point. Retiring.

• 37:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  I think that's the end of it.

• 37:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  Uh, and yeah, having Gemini on all the stuff.

• 37:45David Imel?

  Yeah, there has been like a beta of Gemini on Google Home devices for a while, but um, this is the official rollout, I suppose.

• 37:53Andrew Manganelli?

  I do not seem to have it updated because it's just the same.

• 37:56Speaker 01

  I hope, I think it should be rolling out today.

• 37:58David Imel?

  Probably rolling, yeah, yeah. Okay, well, the, the interesting thing is that the hardware is a little bit different. So the Google Home, they're calling it the Google Home Speaker. And it's sort of the, it's, the size is sort of between a Nest Mini and a Nest Audio. So it's like bigger than a Nest Mini. It should have much better um, audio capabilities, like it sounds a lot nicer. It's got 360 degree audio. You can connect multiple of them in stereo. And surprisingly, the colors are very bold. They have this like extremely saturated red.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:30David Imel?

  And then they've got a green, which is kind of like a hazel. Well, actually, it's not a hazel. There's a green, it's like a.

• 38:35Andrew Manganelli?

  It's hazel gray.

• 38:37David Imel?

  Gray.

• 38:38Speaker 01

  It's just like a gray with a hint of green. I think the red one is insanely bold.

• 38:43David Imel?

  The red one is crazy bright.

• 38:44Speaker 01

  And I typically don't think of home accessories being like that boldly colored, but cool if you want to do that. But then the others are like charcoal or like ivory or slightly green, so.

• 38:54David Imel?

  Yeah, okay. It's not coming out till next year. The spring of next year.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  What is the?

• 38:59David Imel?

  The speaker, yeah, the new speaker.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  Right. But I think the doorbell and the uh, the new camera and the other stuff is around.

• 39:05David Imel?

  I wonder if they announced it today because the Amazon event just happened and they were like, there's a bunch of new Echo speakers and we need to like offset the news somehow.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Or it's just tech-tober.

• 39:17David Imel?

  I guess, but you can't even order them.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  Uh, you can't?

• 39:21David Imel?

  Can you preorder them? Because they come out spring 2026. That's like a while away.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  All available now.

• 39:26David Imel?

  That's six months away.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  They're in the Google Store and they're available now.

• 39:29David Imel?

  You can buy them now?

• 39:30Speaker 01

  Nest Cam Outdoor, $149.

• 39:32David Imel?

  Oh, well, maybe that. I'm talking about the, the Google Home Speaker.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  No, just the speaker is, is later.

• 39:37David Imel?

  Okay.

• 39:38Speaker 01

  But all the other new stuff, meaning the new doorbell and the new indoor speaker and the new outdoor speaker is on site.

• 39:43David Imel?

  The jade green is pretty green. I wouldn't say that's a hint of green.

• 39:46Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, the, the speaker is a little more green. I was talking about the doorbell and the cameras.

• 39:50David Imel?

  Well, yeah, we'll, we'll see how good it ends up being. But you know, it's always good.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  Trivia, let's go. It's simply always good.

• 39:58Speaker 04

  Simply the best. People.

• 40:02Speaker 04

  Before we get into trivia, we gotta issue a correction.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 40:05Speaker 04

  From last week. We got something wrong.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  Uh oh.

• 40:08Speaker 04

  Unfortunately, uh, in a professional Derby race, if a jockey falls off their horse and the horse finishes the race, it is not counted as a victory.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  Is that right?

• 40:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  What did you guys talk about?

• 40:23Speaker 04

  I saw a video and it was totally counted. It, uh, they, they won't, they'll let the horse finish because they're not going to interrupt the race, but it will not be counted as a proper victory. Or at least that's what I found on my research.

• 40:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Marquez is furiously typing.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  Well, the commentators seem to think.

• 40:40Speaker 04

  In F1, if the driver falls out and the car goes over, that does count? No. But in, in NASCAR, I do, I am pretty sure it's Ricky Bobby rules where if the driver crosses the finish line without the car.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  What?

• 40:53Speaker 04

  There's no way that could be real. That's way too dangerous. It's happened in real races.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  Like where they crash and they get out and.

• 40:59Speaker 04

  I can't wait for next week's correction. And they get fined afterwards for doing something so dangerous. Anyway, um.

• 41:06Speaker 01

  How you almost get hit by a car and you get fined? That's crazy.

• 41:11Speaker 04

  While Marquez confirms or denies.

• 41:12Speaker 01

  No, you're right. In the video that I was referencing, the commentators seemed to believe that the horse had just won, but it turns out for betting purposes, that was declared a non-running.

• 41:21Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 41:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a good correction.

• 41:24Speaker 04

  Well, in other news, both of our questions this week are about Amazon products.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  Oh no.

• 41:31Speaker 04

  Amazon hardware and the wacky, wacky world that they live within.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 41:36Speaker 04

  Uh, because Amazon makes a lot of Echo products.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  They sure do.

• 41:39Speaker 04

  And some of them are really poorly named. So I need you guys to tell me what ki- Marquez?

• 41:45Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:48Speaker 04

  Marquez has put on the smart glasses. We cannot confirm or deny whether he's cheating.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  Or watching rails.

• 41:54Speaker 04

  Uh, or watching, no, his mouth is closed, so he's not, he's not watching, um, anyway, you guys have to tell me what kind of product the Echo Flex is. What kind of product is the Echo Flex? Use, use the context. It's called the Flex.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  It's a slap, slap band.

• 42:16Speaker 04

  It's a folding foam. I'm just kidding.

• 42:17Speaker 01

  I see you pinching.

• 42:20Speaker 04

  We'll be right back.

• 42:31Speaker 01

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• 43:31Speaker 05

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• 44:55David Imel?

  Welcome back.

• 44:56Andrew Manganelli?

  15% of my diet is chalua.

• 44:58David Imel?

  Andrew said that on me, so you know. Uh, okay, so I have a fun game that I want to play. So if you guys will open up the link that I put in the show notes. If you have the show notes open.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  I do.

• 45:11David Imel?

  I've created a Google Slides slideshow. Yesterday, I was in the French Alps. Um, yeah, I know.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  Subtle flex.

• 45:20David Imel?

  Pretty weird. Uh, and I brought many cameras, as I always do. But I decided that I wanted to kind of like push the limits of the new iPhone camera. So I downloaded Halide onto my phone.

• 45:34Andrew Manganelli?

  I hate you for this.

• 45:35David Imel?

  Which allows, which allows you to shoot actual RAW, not just Pro RAW, which is already a little bit processed. And I also brought my Leica M11 and a bunch of film cameras. And because the M11 is a digital camera, I decided I was going to shoot a bunch of photos on all the cameras. And then I was going to kind of like take a look at how different all of the photos were. So what I'm doing this game is that I've made a series of slides of photos that I took. And you guys need to guess whether or not they were taken on the iPhone or the Leica M11.

• 46:09Speaker 01

  Wow, okay. And are we, so this is no pixel peeping or zooming, just like looking at the wide?

• 46:14David Imel?

  And it's already going to be compressed by putting on Google Slides, because it's fair enough.

• 46:17Andrew Manganelli?

  And are we a team?

• 46:19David Imel?

  Um, you can.

• 46:21Andrew Manganelli?

  We should be a team because I will lose.

• 46:22David Imel?

  All right.

• 46:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Let's teamwork this. I think it'll make it easier.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  Hosts versus producers.

• 46:28David Imel?

  Ooh, oh yeah, I like that. Okay.

• 46:30Andrew Manganelli?

  We do that, but we'll have to say it all out loud or else this is going to be really boring.

• 46:34David Imel?

  Yeah, we can talk it out.

• 46:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, talk it out. Okay, so number one.

• 46:37David Imel?

  Number one. First one. So this is a nice wider shot of two stone cabins with all of the Alps rising in the background and then a blue sky. And I should note that I have multiple lenses for my M11, so I have lenses that can emulate the different focal lengths of the iPhone.

• 46:53Andrew Manganelli?

  So your Leica can emulate an iPhone?

• 46:55David Imel?

  Well.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  Thinking out loud is this is a ton that is in focus and it's a really nice landscape shot.

• 47:03David Imel?

  I should also note that I shoot close down constantly.

• 47:06Speaker 01

  Of course, as you would with a scene like this.

• 47:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  My only note, I mean, it does look very flat like the iPhone, but I think because Andrew, that snow and that wall of the cabin are a little hot, a little high exposed. I'm going M11 because I think the iPhone would flatten it even more.

• 47:27Andrew Manganelli?

  My only thought is whether he potentially shot this on a tripod or not. And that looks like very uneven ground.

• 47:34David Imel?

  It was very uneven ground.

• 47:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Which would make a tripod very hard, but I guess he doesn't necessarily need a tripod for this. So I just, whenever I imagine David with a camera, I imagine a like four foot box on a giant rickety wooden tripod. So.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  It was very flat.

• 47:50Andrew Manganelli?

  I'll go with, I mean, you're the expert here.

• 47:52Speaker 01

  There's a lot of shadow detail, I will say.

• 47:54Speaker 04

  But he said this is, this is a halide raw and not an iPhone Pro raw, right?

• 47:58Speaker 01

  Correct. Processed, yeah.

• 48:00David Imel?

  But barely.

• 48:01Speaker 04

  But in theory, if this was the iPhone, it would still be a single bracket. Like there would not be.

• 48:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:06Speaker 04

  It wouldn't do HDR.

• 48:08Speaker 01

  Yes, there's not HDR on it. Yeah. The shadow detail means nothing. And slightly blown highlights.

• 48:13David Imel?

  Well, I mean, it could mean something because it's still a raw photo and you still have a lot of flexibility. So it's just not forced shadow.

• 48:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Here is the, the green and the grass. It does not look super over sharpened or anything. The way that I feel like iPhone would do. I'm looking at David, he's not giving me anything.

• 48:33Speaker 01

  I'm not allowed to get anything.

• 48:35Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it's potentially iPhone just because David got really defensive about how close he shoots and everything right off the bat, which made me think Marquez was on the right trail. Although then you said Leica, didn't you?

• 48:45Speaker 04

  I'm gonna say, I think it's the Leica also because of the green.

• 48:48Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm going iPhone.

• 48:49Speaker 04

  Wait, but you're on Marquez's team.

• 48:52Andrew Manganelli?

  What are we going?

• 48:53Speaker 01

  You guys don't agree on it either.

• 48:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Let me take this one.

• 48:57David Imel?

  Okay.

• 48:57Andrew Manganelli?

  iPhone.

• 48:58David Imel?

  Okay.

• 49:00Speaker 04

  We think it's a Leica.

• 49:01David Imel?

  The answer is iPhone.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  What?

• 49:04David Imel?

  Nice.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  No way.

• 49:05David Imel?

  Nice, Andrew.

• 49:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Give me one.

• 49:06David Imel?

  That's a point. Yeah, and I'll have to show you guys these photos. Maybe I should upload them separately because in full resolution because it looks.

• 49:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, Lincoln show. I mean, it's still a great looking photo.

• 49:15David Imel?

  Yeah, but it looks like crap on Google Slides compared.

• 49:17Andrew Manganelli?

  iPhone? This isn't how you guys look at photos?

• 49:19David Imel?

  And by the way, so this is a, this is a basically unprocessed iPhone raw photo. To your point about the whites being hot, on the raw photos from the iPhone, the whites are quite hot.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  Usually they have a little bit at the top.

• 49:33David Imel?

  They're a little bit over, like, it just, it's not doing, it's not pulling down the highlights and jacking up the shadows like it would in a normal iPhone shot. Right. So that is not necessarily a giveaway.

• 49:43Speaker 01

  Gotcha, gotcha.

• 49:44David Imel?

  All right, let's move on to image two.

• 49:46Speaker 01

  Okay. Image two, looks like you've climbed to the top of a very tall mountain.

• 49:50David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 49:50Speaker 01

  And pointed down at the peak of another very tall mountain, which is poking through the clouds. And again, blue sky in the background and some foreground detail. Lot of snow. This is a lot of snow.

• 50:02David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 50:04David Imel?

  Wow. As a climber.

• 50:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, there's a guy climbing in the very deep snow and presumably what looks like people have skied down.

• 50:13David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 50:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Just because of the way it's.

• 50:14David Imel?

  People ski off this cliff and paraglide.

• 50:16Andrew Manganelli?

  That's crazy.

• 50:18David Imel?

  It's ridiculous.

• 50:19Andrew Manganelli?

  This is one of those things where I'm, I'm leaning camera, but just to think, David, God, up here with the camera.

• 50:27David Imel?

  There is so much detail.

• 50:28Andrew Manganelli?

  There's so much, yeah. I think it's the, so the mountain coming out of the clouds, that specifically just looks so sharp, but not fake sharp. It looks really.

• 50:39Speaker 01

  What, can I ask one question?

• 50:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 50:41Speaker 01

  About the M11?

• 50:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  How much dynamic range does it typically have?

• 50:45David Imel?

  Quite a lot. The M10, without getting into too much detail, the M10 peaked the highlights, like, if you clipped the highlights, they were just gone. The M11 has quite a bit more dynamic range.

• 50:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is M11. I think M11.

• 50:58Andrew Manganelli?

  I honestly have no idea anymore.

• 51:02Speaker 04

  It's the Leica. What did you, can you tell us what post-processing you might have done? Like, did you limit it to just curves? Did you adjust the color?

• 51:13David Imel?

  I did very little to this photo.

• 51:15Speaker 04

  Would you have added it yet?

• 51:17David Imel?

  No, I didn't add it.

• 51:18Speaker 04

  All right, then this is the Leica for sure. Look at this guy.

• 51:22David Imel?

  Yeah, there's a little vignette in the, in the top corners.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:25David Imel?

  Yeah, that's a Leica.

• 51:26Speaker 01

  That's a Leica.

• 51:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Little vignette.

• 51:27Speaker 04

  Let's go, baby!

• 51:28David Imel?

  Alright, alright.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  It looks fire.

• 51:30David Imel?

  Let's move on to photo. Okay, so this is a set of photos.

• 51:34Speaker 01

  Two photos.

• 51:35David Imel?

  That are kind of the same photo, the focal lengths are a little bit different, but they're taken from the same perspective. Uh, and, yeah, they look very similar.

• 51:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, one is, you can see the rock, so it is a mountain at a like, kind of lakeside, or is this like a glacier?

• 51:51David Imel?

  This is an Alpine lake, yeah, an Alpine lake.

• 51:54Andrew Manganelli?

  But like, you can see the rock in the left picture, that's the rock in the right picture, and it is in a very tighter lens.

• 52:00Speaker 01

  He's very tall.

• 52:01David Imel?

  People's eyebrows.

• 52:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Marquez, what's happening?

• 52:06David Imel?

  It's very, it's very tall.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  Don't worry about it.

• 52:09David Imel?

  Um, so you can see the rock, what else can you, you also see?

• 52:12Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm just saying, you can tell the focal lengths are extremely different because of that rock, yeah.

• 52:16David Imel?

  Yeah, the green of the water on the right versus the slightly bluer cast of the water on the left.

• 52:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 52:23David Imel?

  I am fairly confident the iPhone is on the left and the Leica's on the right.

• 52:27Andrew Manganelli?

  I just wanna, your green thing though, might be because of how far zoomed in the one on the, or the right is, where you're seeing most of the green on the shallower part, closer to David on the left, where the right...

• 52:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, you said this is at the same location?

• 52:42Speaker 01

  The one on the right is the Leica.

• 52:43David Imel?

  I'm standing in the same, I'm standing in the same spot for both of these, but I had different focal lengths on the different cameras.

• 52:53David Imel?

  But I have lenses for the Leica that match the focal lengths of the iPhone.

• 52:56Andrew Manganelli?

  But, that obviously didn't happen on this one?

• 52:59David Imel?

  Yeah, I, I didn't go in, I didn't, when I was there, I wasn't like, I'm gonna do this test, I just had this idea on the plane ride back.

• 53:06Speaker 01

  I'm staking my entire thesis on this. The way that the rocks look on the left, looks like iPhone processing, even though there's not a ton of processing, it just looks like an iPhone, so I'm going left is iPhone, right is Leica.

• 53:18Andrew Manganelli?

  I was gonna go right is Leica, just because of how good the detail in the rightmost mountains that aren't in the left photo is.

• 53:26Speaker 01

  Okay, I got it, I got it. The left is the Leica, because there is dirt on the sensor, David. Top left, baby.

• 53:34David Imel?

  That's a, that's a bird.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  Never mind.

• 53:36David Imel?

  Yeah, that's a bird.

• 53:37Speaker 04

  That's not a bird.

• 53:37David Imel?

  It is a bird.

• 53:38Andrew Manganelli?

  I just thought that was my computer screen. He's dirty.

• 53:42Speaker 03

  I was literally screening my computer, screening the past five minutes.

• 53:45Speaker 04

  I, I think producer table agrees with Marquez.

• 53:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:48Speaker 04

  That the, the Leica is the one on the right for, for two reasons. One, I think the one on the right is cropped in after you took the, like you, you cropped it in, in Lightroom. And I don't think you'd really be able to do that on an iPhone and get, get something that looks so nice. And two, there's way more dynamic range in the sky on the one on the right, which I think you would need superior Leica processing to accomplish.

• 54:17David Imel?

  Okay. The answer is that you're all wrong.

• 54:20Speaker 03

  We're both iPhones?

• 54:23David Imel?

  The iPhone photo is the one on the right. Re- yeah. And that's a singular raw image that like I barely processed at all.

• 54:31Andrew Manganelli?

  It's impressive.

• 54:32David Imel?

  Isn't that?

• 54:33Andrew Manganelli?

  It's really impressive. Even like all the gravel close to you on the.

• 54:36David Imel?

  Trash.

• 54:36Speaker 04

  I just wanna. No, no, no, no. It means that the iPhone's computational photography is trash. If this is what the sensor is doing when left to its own devices.

• 54:46David Imel?

  Exactly.

• 54:46Speaker 04

  What are we doing?

• 54:47David Imel?

  Like a regular iPhone photo would not look nearly this.

• 54:50Speaker 01

  Well, okay, thi- this is a beautiful scene.

• 54:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  That it's really hard to take a bad looking photo of.

• 54:56David Imel?

  Sure.

• 54:57Speaker 01

  So if you give this.

• 54:58Speaker 03

  Watch me. Step aside.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  If you stand out there in all this light and take it and you give the sensor this best case scenario, almost any modern sensor is going to do a very respectful job.

• 55:09David Imel?

  I don't know. Not with computational photography.

• 55:11Speaker 01

  Well, as I was saying, the sensor will, but then the processing is what gives your photo the look afterwards.

• 55:16David Imel?

  And this is the point I wanted to make.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:18David Imel?

  Is that phone processing sucks because all they're doing is they're just optimizing for storage. They're optimizing for like shadow detail. This is why, and I might get crap for saying this, but like when Google, Google got rid of their regular raw processing and they introduced a sort of like pro raw kinda thing, which is in my opinion, just worse. Cause it just lifts the shadows and you don't always want the shadows to be lifted if you want it to look like a real picture. Anyway, we can move on. You're all wrong.

• 55:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, was that actually dust on the sensor and not a bird?

• 55:49David Imel?

  No, that is actually, actually a bird.

• 55:50Andrew Manganelli?

  I thought you were trying to throw Adam off.

• 55:51David Imel?

  No, it is a, it was, it was a bird. I did later get dust on my sensor, but that is a bird. Okay. Next photo. You wanna describe it?

• 56:00Speaker 01

  Next photo is, uh, what looks on the left side of the frame to be a really high stack of various sized rocks.

• 56:06Andrew Manganelli?

  So is that a Karen?

• 56:09David Imel?

  What?

• 56:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Is, I think that's how you pronounce it. A lot of like national parks and stuff will put up these small rock structures to indicate where a trail is.

• 56:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 56:17Andrew Manganelli?

  So this is like clearly a trail pass with a lot of snow on it, but.

• 56:21David Imel?

  I thought they had just built it to sort of replicate this, the shape of the mountain in front of it.

• 56:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Funny, cause I always am not sure how to pronounce it because I think it's C A R I N.

• 56:30David Imel?

  Oh, like a Corinne?

• 56:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, no. C A I R N. Manmade pile of stone used to mark a trail, especially in areas where path might be unclear.

• 56:39David Imel?

  Cairn?

• 56:41Andrew Manganelli?

  You're not. Oh, somebody's gonna roast me for that, but.

• 56:45David Imel?

  Okay, so you want to describe the image as you see it?

• 56:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it looks like on the left side of the frame, we got a really solid stack of stones with some snow on them, possibly indicating a trailhead or something like that. And then on the right is a whole bunch of snow-covered mountains. Whole bunch of blue sky in the background, still plenty of dynamic range, a lot of things in the shadow of the mountain this time. Yeah, a lot of D R to play with. I'm confused.

• 57:15Speaker 03

  I'm gonna say this is iPhone.

• 57:18Andrew Manganelli?

  My initial thought was iPhone with no real substantial evidence to back it with.

• 57:23Speaker 03

  My thinking is the shadows on the mountain are a little high. And the sky looks the same as the iPhone picture in the last image, like the gradient.

• 57:34Speaker 01

  My logic is they're all, when they're so compressed in Google Slides, you can't use detail anymore. So I'm trying to go by exposure.

• 57:43David Imel?

  That's fair.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  And the whole, at first I was like, that little portion in the middle right that is almost fully black, it's pretty dark and that's something that the iPhone kind of wouldn't allow, but they also have the entire shadow side of this mountain in a lot of detail, which kind of feels like something the iPhone would do. So I don't know, I'm gonna, I guess I'm going iPhone because the mountain's in shadow and you can see all of it.

• 58:10Speaker 03

  I'm stumped on this one. Like I, there's nothing I can really. Point two, which is frustrating, man.

• 58:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh wait, you can see a reflection of him with the camera in this.

• 58:21Speaker 01

  I wish. In his smart glasses. It's the Metta Ray.

• 58:26Andrew Manganelli?

  It was the Metta Ray.

• 58:28Speaker 01

  David, which camera was this one? Uh, this is the iPhone. Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right. Next photo. Next photo is a landscape of a mountainside lake. The lake is blue green. The mountains in the background are covered in snow. The foreground has less snow. It's mostly stones and moss and some olive green plant type stuff. And the sky is blue again with some cirrus clouds. Yeah. I, there's a little grain to it, no?

• 58:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 58:57David Imel?

  Or is that just the water?

• 58:58Andrew Manganelli?

  That's Google slides.

• 59:00Speaker 01

  I'm just looking at the water and I guess it's ripples in the water.

• 59:02Andrew Manganelli?

  I think that's ripples in the water.

• 59:03Speaker 01

  Okay. Yeah. Well, the shadow is the right side. Plenty of detail there.

• 59:11Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm going, I iPhone again.

• 59:15Speaker 03

  I'm going Leica. I think if you look at the sky, there's a little bit of grain that I think would be.

• 59:24Andrew Manganelli?

  That looks exactly the same as in the last photo.

• 59:28Speaker 03

  Why are you, why are you doing this to me, Andrew?

• 59:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Which was an iPhone and the one before, yeah, I think iPhone also.

• 59:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think we think it's an iPhone.

• 59:34Speaker 03

  Ellis is just shaking his head.

• 59:36Andrew Manganelli?

  It's also funny because I may have skipped ahead to the next one. I could tell how long you stayed at this lake because there's that one singular rock formation somewhere in all of these photos. It kind of looks like a like tower.

• 59:46Speaker 03

  Camera.

• 59:47Speaker 04

  This is a 16 Pro?

• 59:48Speaker 01

  Seventeen Pro.

• 59:49Speaker 04

  Seventeen Pro?

• 59:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. Which camera is this one? This is iPhone.

• 59:52Speaker 04

  God, is this what's gonna convince me to buy the new iPhone?

• 59:55Speaker 01

  Now, I'm. You could take this with an iPhone 3GS.

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  I don't know about that.

• 1:00:01Andrew Manganelli?

  It doesn't even have a plateau.

• 1:00:03Speaker 03

  I did see someone go around taking side by side pictures and it didn't do bad, the 3GS.

• 1:00:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean. Get it this much light? The 3GS processing was better before they introduced computational photography, but. Okay. We want to the next photo. I know these are a lot of fairly similar. Yeah, this next one is a landscape version from maybe the other side of that lake. Yeah. Okay. A lot of shadow on the left. Deep mountains in the highlights on the right. Wow. I'm going back to Leica because I think there's some real shadow depth on the left in that little crevice.

• 1:00:35David Imel?

  Uh, still a ton of range, though. I kinda hope it's the iPhone.

• 1:00:39Andrew Manganelli?

  The like rock on the right has like a green tint to it.

• 1:00:43David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:44Andrew Manganelli?

  That feels, uh, I know nothing about Leicas.

• 1:00:47Speaker 04

  There's also more.

• 1:00:48Andrew Manganelli?

  It feels like something.

• 1:00:49Speaker 03

  I think iPhone because at this point, I think David's just trying to me.

• 1:00:54David Imel?

  That's not a bad strategy. That's good.

• 1:00:56Speaker 03

  Oh, Ellis found something. Never mind. It's the Leica.

• 1:01:00David Imel?

  What did you find? What'd you find?

• 1:01:02Speaker 04

  We're on slide six, right? I'm not tripping?

• 1:01:03David Imel?

  Yeah, six.

• 1:01:04Speaker 04

  Leica.

• 1:01:05David Imel?

  What'd you find?

• 1:01:06Speaker 04

  I can't tell you.

• 1:01:07Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, we already put in like.

• 1:01:09Speaker 04

  It could be two really Boca-y birds, but the.

• 1:01:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, I also thought that was on my screen.

• 1:01:15Speaker 04

  This really looks like.

• 1:01:16David Imel?

  Oh, that is smudge. Yeah.

• 1:01:18Andrew Manganelli?

  The two dots.

• 1:01:19David Imel?

  I got spots on my sensor. My iPhones, just kidding. Yeah, no, it's the Leica. I, I also probably should have cropped this differently because it's more of a giveaway when this landscape.

• 1:01:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Aspect ratio.

• 1:01:30David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah. But I did crop some of the iPhone photos, so.

• 1:01:34Speaker 04

  If slide seven is the iPhone, I'm throwing away all of my cameras.

• 1:01:37David Imel?

  Okay, so slide seven.

• 1:01:39Speaker 04

  This is like an ultra detailed, really far away landscape of two mountain peaks where the, the shit, the sun is casting a shadow that so only the, the peaks of the mountain are illuminated and you have this valley that is in the, in shadow, but still has so much detail.

• 1:01:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, there's a lot of detail in all of the shadow and even just like the rock face or the, the hill in front of him. You can see everything. This is really cool because like where the sun is hitting is the only snow cap part of the mountains where the rest you can see the ski trails despite it not having snow.

• 1:02:11David Imel?

  Golden.

• 1:02:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Um, so you can tell this is like the valley of a, you know, a ski town. Um, and the fact that you can still see all of that in all of the shadow is very impressive.

• 1:02:21David Imel?

  I wish I was at the scene so I could see how light it actually is, but I think because it's darker, I'm going Leica. But I, I could be wrong.

• 1:02:29Speaker 03

  I'm going Leica for my wallet's sake.

• 1:02:31Andrew Manganelli?

  I think I'm going Leica on vibes.

• 1:02:35David Imel?

  I'm looking this up because I don't remember.

• 1:02:40David Imel?

  I feel like that says something, right? Um, is it this one? Yeah.

• 1:02:44Andrew Manganelli?

  This is actually iPhone selfie camera.

• 1:02:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:51Andrew Manganelli?

  He unlocked the full sensor.

• 1:02:53David Imel?

  All right, um, this one's the iPhone.

• 1:02:55Speaker 01

  Hmm. Okay. Well, I guess I'm just gonna murder myself.

• 1:03:00David Imel?

  Enjoy your hustle.

• 1:03:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Crazy David.

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  I know. It's crazy. It is crazy. Raw photos are crazy. You know why I couldn't tell? Cause it didn't say shot on iPhone. Yeah. Where's the watermark? Yeah. Where's the branding? Yeah. Okay. There's two more. Yeah. Second to last one here is very blue.

• 1:03:18Speaker 04

  Very blue.

• 1:03:18Speaker 01

  You're on the, you're on the edge of a lake. A beautiful reflection of a mountain in an Alpine lake. And there's a, there's a person right in the center of the frame. Walking past the white snow capped mountain. Yeah. With a cloud. You must be really altitude right now. Yeah. It was 12,000 feet. Sick. Wow. I almost broke my knees.

• 1:03:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh man, I wish this water wasn't ripply.

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  Well, I tried on so many, it was too bright to even do a long exposure on like any of my cameras. I tried to do long exposures and it was. Too much light. Too, too much light. Yeah. I didn't have any ND filters with me, so I couldn't, which is sad because it would have been awesome.

• 1:03:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, no, I just mean, I wish it wasn't ripply because then the reflection would be like perfectly intact.

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Of the mountain.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  Which would have been sick.

• 1:04:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Which would have been awesome. That's what they like Mirror Lake at.

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Uh, Yosemite, everyone loves.

• 1:04:06Speaker 01

  I want to get this right.

• 1:04:07Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm going Leica.

• 1:04:08Speaker 01

  I'm defaulting to whatever Ellis wants to say for this one.

• 1:04:13Andrew Manganelli?

  The shadow is very dark. It is very sharp.

• 1:04:17Speaker 01

  We have lost meaningful detail in the snow on the mountain, I've noticed. And we've also lost meaningful detail in the shadow in the foreground.

• 1:04:26Speaker 04

  This is the iPhone.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  Because of the lesser dynamic range, I'm going iPhone. I don't even have a good reason anymore.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. It has to be the iPhone. This one is the iPhone.

• 1:04:39Andrew Manganelli?

  This is the iPhone?

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  Which ironically, I took this on the M11 as well, and I liked the iPhone shot.

• 1:04:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay. I picked it because you pointed to your Leica when you were talking about long exposure and then you went, I mean, all my cameras. And I thought you just gave it away.

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  No. Yeah. Well, all right. The final shot.

• 1:04:54Speaker 04

  This is an iPhone.

• 1:04:55Speaker 01

  Final shot is a nice, big valley shot where the mountains are going up to the left and up to the right. And in the far, far distance, there is a trail going up to this beautiful snow capped mountain. Also far less ideal lighting. It's much darker. Clearly darker, clearly quite a bit more, uh, I don't know if it's noise or green or what, but there's clouds, you know? It's not a blue sky anymore. This is a darker hour. Smoky clouds. Wow. Oh, this looks like a postcard.

• 1:05:25Speaker 03

  Is this a trick question? Did you take this with a different camera? Because this looks very different from all the other photos you took.

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  Well, because there's way less light.

• 1:05:32David Imel?

  It's because it's horizontal.

• 1:05:33Speaker 03

  Well, no, just all of it.

• 1:05:35David Imel?

  And there's way less, it's totally different lighting.

• 1:05:37Speaker 04

  It looks like a, like a stock wallpaper on a Mac.

• 1:05:40David Imel?

  Hmm. Complimentary?

• 1:05:44David Imel?

  Uh, yeah, a lot of the other photos were taken at like similar times of day. This is, this is much different lighting.

• 1:05:50Speaker 03

  I'm gonna go iPhone for this one. Just because I feel like I've seen, ah, here we go. I'm gonna be wrong and I'm gonna sound like an idiot more so than I already have been. But I feel like I've seen this same level of like breakdown in the shadows with like smartphone photography.

• 1:06:05Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm guessing Leica.

• 1:06:08Andrew Manganelli?

  This is also my favorite photo out of all of them.

• 1:06:09David Imel?

  Dang.

• 1:06:10Speaker 01

  I think this could be the iPhone. Yeah, I'm going iPhone.

• 1:06:14Speaker 04

  I think it's the iPhone, but just because it looks like Apple media. I don't have any.

• 1:06:19Speaker 04

  The sky is doing that thing again. Like the, the iPhone seems to take some of the exposure of the mountain and add it to the sky in a few of these. If that makes any sense. Like I've noticing like on some of the Leicas, it gradients out to dark as you go up. And on a lot of the iPhone shots, it gradients to the color of the mountain as you get closer to the horizon.

• 1:06:39David Imel?

  This shot is the Leica.

• 1:06:41Speaker 04

  I don't know anything.

• 1:06:43Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm good at this.

• 1:06:44Andrew Manganelli?

  I suck at this.

• 1:06:45Speaker 03

  The least amount of knowledge.

• 1:06:46David Imel?

  Anyway, the point of this was to just show you that like, while I still prefer traditional cameras for the shooting experience, you too can take pretty cool pictures just with your phone. It's pretty insane.

• 1:06:58Speaker 04

  Freaky good.

• 1:06:59David Imel?

  Like freaky good.

• 1:07:00Speaker 04

  Freaky.

• 1:07:01David Imel?

  Like you can't tell the difference.

• 1:07:02Speaker 03

  I'm gonna steal one of our like iPhone pros just so I can go back and forth between the Pixel Pro and the iPhone Pro, because this is really bothering me.

• 1:07:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:10Speaker 03

  I feel like I might have chosen wrong this year.

• 1:07:12David Imel?

  Are there?

• 1:07:12Andrew Manganelli?

  You can buy a Rico.

• 1:07:15David Imel?

  Are there RAW apps on Pixel now? Or like, there probably are, right? RAW camera apps?

• 1:07:20Speaker 01

  I believe there are.

• 1:07:20Speaker 03

  There's like the.

• 1:07:21David Imel?

  Open camera.

• 1:07:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, there's.

• 1:07:23David Imel?

  Does that do RAW?

• 1:07:24Speaker 04

  Or like a little cup of ceviche? RAW apps, RAW apps?

• 1:07:29David Imel?

  Oh.

• 1:07:29Speaker 04

  Anyone?

• 1:07:30David Imel?

  Very nice.

• 1:07:31Speaker 04

  You did it with the jokes.

• 1:07:32David Imel?

  I like that one.

• 1:07:33Speaker 03

  I forgot what it's called, but I think zero cam?

• 1:07:35David Imel?

  My local ceviche place caught on fire a few weeks ago.

• 1:07:39Speaker 04

  Now they only serve grilled brinzi though.

• 1:07:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's our cue. Let's do trivia.

• 1:07:46David Imel?

  All right.

• 1:07:46Speaker 03

  Trivia, what was David's local ceviche place?

• 1:07:52Speaker 03

  One Echo product that people often forget about are the Amazon Echo Buds. What was the-

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  No, I never forgot. I never forgot.

• 1:08:00Speaker 03

  What was the last year that Amazon tried to sell these sub $50 True Wireless A&C Buds?

• 1:08:07Andrew Manganelli?

  They were under $50.

• 1:08:08Speaker 03

  Under $50.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  Remember the Echo Frames?

• 1:08:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Am I thinking of the wrong ones?

• 1:08:12Speaker 04

  The, um, this is Price is Right rule. So if you go over, you're disqualified. Yeah. It's you. Do you hear that?

• 1:08:19Andrew Manganelli?

  You go over, you're disqualified.

• 1:08:20Speaker 04

  So what was the last year they made them?

• 1:08:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  All right. Well, we'll think about this one. Answers at the end like usual. We'll be right back.

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

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• 1:10:44Speaker 01

  All right, welcome back. We're using this last segment to jump in to listen to maybe the most interesting part of my conversation that I got to have when I was out in Menlo Park with James Cameron, who you might have heard of, a pretty legendary movie producer, director, creator, filmmaker in his own right, and with Andrew Bosworth, who was also there with Meta. So he's the CTO of Meta, and we just kind of had a random off-the-cuff chat about what they're doing with these glasses, the first-person video, and it kind of went off the rails, to be honest, but this last part of the conversation, I thought was pretty fun, just because I found it interesting to put someone from like real OG media into a YouTuber's

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  shoes and try to ask him a little bit about what he thinks of, you know, the character and the filmmaker being one and the same. So without any further ado, here's some of that conversation. You know, I'm familiar with audio projects, and it seems like they take advantage of either some bleeding-edge technology or some new technology to give a new perspective or make something incredible. And I wonder if you see first-person cameras as an opportunity for even a movie or a project that could maybe have some unique perspective we haven't seen before. Do you picture a first-person movie being interesting?

• 1:12:00Speaker 08

  Well, I think the filmmaker becomes the character in that, right? And so how charismatic or interesting is your filmmaker? Most filmmakers are perfectly happy way back behind the camera, not being constantly studied, but on the other hand, we've got a whole generation... Coming up on social media that are just used to being observed all the time and even, you know, the whole influencer culture.

• 1:12:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:27Speaker 08

  People want to be observed.

• 1:12:29Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:12:29Speaker 08

  You know, so absolutely, I think you could, you can have a first-person narrative shot with first-person lenses. It could be script, could be fully scripted, it could be, it could be a proper production.

• 1:12:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:41Speaker 08

  You know, I think that'd be a lot of fun. I would go back again to this thing that I, that I wrote back in 1993, I think, called Strange Days, and it was about, we just, people just record their experience and then they sell it to other people. You know, which, by the way, is the world we live in.

• 1:12:58Speaker 01

  Turns out.

• 1:12:59Speaker 08

  Turns out, I was a little ahead of time on that.

• 1:13:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:03Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:13:03Speaker 01

  We're kind of there. I feel like a lot of my videos are me trying to put the device in your hands so you can see what it's like to hold it and own it before you actually buy it.

• 1:13:11Speaker 08

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:13:11Speaker 01

  And as tech gets better, I'm able to do that with higher fidelity and more personality and, and closer to real time.

• 1:13:18Speaker 08

  But you become, you become the filmmaker and the performer at the same time.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:23Speaker 08

  It's a one-man band.

• 1:13:24Speaker 01

  If you were, gets put into my shoes, yeah.

• 1:13:26Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:13:26Speaker 01

  Which is pretty sweet.

• 1:13:28Speaker 08

  Well, I mean, you know, we are gonna do this Deep Sea Expedition thing where I might be in that very role because as my experience is being lived and I'm seeing something that's never been seen before, that's being piped out and, and part, part of a number of feeds, there'll be, you know, multiple people experiencing this and then we'll have to figure out how to switch that, how to, you know, how to, how to turn it into some kind of a piece downstream that's going out live. So, that'll all get worked out.

• 1:13:57Speaker 01

  Pretty excited about that. Tech challenge, it sounds like.

• 1:13:59Speaker 08

  Can't say too much about that right now.

• 1:14:01Speaker 01

  Pretty excited about it. Can't say too much. Awesome. Well, I'm looking forward to seeing how it comes together. I did, I watched the Avatar.

• 1:14:07Speaker 08

  Oh, you saw the content for today?

• 1:14:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, the two clips from today.

• 1:14:10Speaker 08

  And you saw it in the Quest 3?

• 1:14:12Speaker 01

  I saw it in Quest 3.

• 1:14:13Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:14:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:13Speaker 08

  Yeah, it plays well in the, in the, in the device, I think.

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I've never watched an entire movie in a headset, but I'm thinking like, it's almost getting to the place where I'd be fine with that. The headset's light enough now.

• 1:14:25Speaker 08

  What'd you do? You'd make them lighter and...

• 1:14:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, where to do. James has notes.

• 1:14:33Speaker 01

  I imagine.

• 1:14:33Speaker 09

  But we listen.

• 1:14:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, sick.

• 1:14:35Speaker 08

  Yeah, I think it plays, I think it plays well. And you know, the thing I, the thing I love about the, about the, you know, um, MR or VR is that they're innately stereoscopic. So anything that you're going to want to put up, put up in there is going to be 3D. And I've been working on, on 3D production for 25 years and, and have figured out how to make it easy to watch, you know, and, and non, not confronting to your senses and, and so on.

• 1:15:07Speaker 01

  If you were, if you were a YouTuber today, put yourself in my shoes. I've been trying to make more and more realistic content to put the viewer in my shoes to see what it's like to hold what I'm holding.

• 1:15:19Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:15:20Speaker 01

  Do you think 3D content is the natural inevitable future of what I'm doing? Or is that more of a alongside?

• 1:15:28Speaker 08

  I, I think, I think 650 million years of evolution says yes.

• 1:15:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:34Speaker 08

  Because once, once organisms got to two eyes, nature never looked back. And we have two eyes for a reason because it gives us more engagement, right? So what do you want to do as a YouTuber? You want to engage people. You want to hold, hold eyeballs, right?

• 1:15:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:50Speaker 08

  What clicks? So, so engagement, I mean, it has to do with, you know, a lot of, you know, neurobiology and that sort of thing about how the brain communicates with itself internally. And you, you probably know this, but, but there, there are a lot of neurons in the, in the visual cortex that are triggered by parallax. So what is, when you, when you're writing a discrete image to two eyes, you're generating parallax in the brain, right? That's where we fuse those two images together to make a, a 3D kind of sense of the world.

• 1:16:22Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:16:23Speaker 08

  And because those different brain regions have to talk to each other, those, and, and, you know, so a neuron's like a, like a GPU, right? So it, it's, that particular neuron does nothing but sense parallax. Other neurons do other things. They recognize faces. This is parallax recognition. And then those different regions of the visual cortex talk to each other. So there's actually enhanced brain activity. When you're staring at a flat image versus a stereoscopic image. So that same thing about when you had, when you wrote memory deeper.

• 1:16:57Speaker 09

  Yep, that's right.

• 1:16:58Speaker 08

  Based on emotion, it's the same principle. The more your brain is active, the better you'll remember it, the more engaged you'll be. So yeah, so that's the long-winded answer. The short-winded answer is yes.

• 1:17:09Speaker 09

  Yeah, I think it's a depth and breadth thing. If you look at the trends in media content, not just in the internet, but even going back a hundred years to the novel novella article, like they go to the edges. You know, our most popular media types now are hundred-plus-hour video games and the shortest, like most rapidly available content. And it makes sense, like we either have a little bit of time and we're just like snatching it up and you'd be foolish, especially in your business, not to be paying good attention to that. That's where it's kind of the easy in, easy out. But there's a second part of this, which is can you take the depth of engagement? For your most loyal, committed people and bring them in deeper. And there is a whole history here of investments to make sure that it's getting easier and

• 1:17:53Speaker 09

  easier over time to tell more compelling stories, more compelling experiences to people. And that's one of the things that we're really passionate about, obviously.

• 1:18:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I kind of see it as a natural, as a natural evolution. There are all kinds of things too that will today turn 2D imagery into, it'll try to perceive a stereoscopic, stereoscopic version of that. And it's impressive, it's with AI, it kind of seems to figure it out pretty quickly.

• 1:18:21Speaker 08

  It's going to take over eventually. I mean, I think right now there's, there's one very decisive advantage with native stereo cameras, which is real time. You know, to get, to get a really comparable result in a, from a gen AI, you know, stereo conversion model or depth model, it needs more time. But it'll catch up, you know, it'll catch up.

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  All right, well, that was a pretty fun conversation. Shout out again to Boz and James Cameron for the time, which leaves us with just one more thing to do this episode, now that everyone's back. It's, of course, trivia time.

• 1:18:59Speaker 04

  Question number one is about the Amazon Echo Flex. What was it? That's it, that's the question. That's a really good question. What was that? I know, because Echo Flex tells you literally nothing. I was gonna say, like, that's a bad name if you don't know what it is. It's, it's sick. It's...

• 1:19:28Speaker 03

  Is this closest without going over?

• 1:19:30Speaker 04

  Sure. Yeah. It's one of those slap bracelets. Guys, what is it? Marquez, you first. I think it's some sort of a display. Nope.

• 1:19:39Speaker 03

  I said phone.

• 1:19:40Speaker 04

  Nope. I put smart display. Nope. Okay. What if I told you that the Echo Flex... Was that the clock? It's a... Microwave. USB-A to wall adapter. Wait. That has a speaker and Alexa built in. Yup. Why do they name it that? Why did they have the Flex? Who knows? Why would you name it that?

• 1:20:02Andrew Manganelli?

  What the heck?

• 1:20:03Speaker 03

  All right, quick update on the score while we're here. Uh, Marquez with six, Andrew with eight, David after getting 0-for-2 last week when we called him after the pod. Still at three. All right.

• 1:20:19Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:20:20Speaker 03

  That hit way too well. Next question, what was the last year that Amazon tried to sell $50 true wireless ANC earbuds called the Amazon Echo Buds?

• 1:20:30Speaker 04

  As close as I can. They fluctuated in price over the years in different versions, but almost all the ones I saw were sub $50. So, if there are any diehard Echo Buds users out there who paid more than $50 and are mad I'm not giving them credit, please email me, [email protected].

• 1:20:50Speaker 03

  I don't remember the Echo Buds at all.

• 1:20:54Speaker 04

  Adam just doesn't want to get that angry. Oh, I don't have access to that email, so you will be hitting him. All right.

• 1:21:02Speaker 04

  Who wants to read first?

• 1:21:03Speaker 01

  We can go in ascending order, because I put 2020.

• 1:21:06Speaker 04

  2020. They were made after that.

• 1:21:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:11Speaker 03

  I put 2021.

• 1:21:12Speaker 04

  They were made after that.

• 1:21:13Speaker 01

  I think the answer is 2024, but I put 2023 to be safe.

• 1:21:16Speaker 04

  They were made after that because the answer is, well, David, you do get the point.

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  Yay.

• 1:21:20Speaker 04

  Uh, but the answer is they are still being made to this day. You can go on amazon.com and buy a pair of Echo Buds.

• 1:21:27Speaker 01

  That was good framing.

• 1:21:28Speaker 04

  Absolutely should not do it.

• 1:21:30Speaker 01

  I thought when I heard that, I was like, really? A sub $50 ANC head like earbuds seems like a great product today. So if they stopped making them, they must've had like a really important reason to stop making them. Yeah. Which might've been like around COVID times, because if they kept going after COVID, they would've found out that there's a really good market for them.

• 1:21:46Speaker 04

  I just thought it's funny that they make this and no one, I've never heard, I didn't even know they made them before today. Yeah. On the Alexa store, there are two different models of Amazon Echo Buds that are both listed as newest model.

• 1:22:01Speaker 01

  Tough.

• 1:22:02Speaker 04

  You know, it's crazy that like, you know, one of the most valuable companies in the world, folks.

• 1:22:06Speaker 01

  They'll run by humans after all.

• 1:22:09Speaker 04

  Allegedly, man.

• 1:22:13Speaker 03

  Can I yell at a company real quick?

• 1:22:14Speaker 01

  2.737 trillion dollar company.

• 1:22:18Speaker 03

  How much is OpenAI worth?

• 1:22:20Speaker 01

  Nothing, because they're still not profitable.

• 1:22:22Speaker 03

  Fair. Well, they released a new Sora app that we didn't talk about, but we will probably at some point, but not on Android. How is this company so, well, it has all the money and they didn't release an Android?

• 1:22:33Speaker 01

  Well, Sora's just the slop generator, right?

• 1:22:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, but they have the app now on iOS.

• 1:22:39Speaker 01

  Sora app, yeah, now specifically.

• 1:22:41Speaker 04

  Cool.

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  Well, hey, either way, that's been it for this episode. Hope you enjoyed lots of fun conversations, more coming up as well. Obviously, we had some people on this episode, but we have more coming on future episodes. So stay tuned for that. Get subscribed if you haven't already and we'll catch you guys very soon. Next week in Techtober. Peace.

• 1:23:00Speaker 03

  Wait, former host, Adam Alina, Ellis River, and partner with Vox Media Podcast Network. And our track for music was created by Vane Sil.

• 1:23:05Speaker 04

  Bingo.

• 1:23:06Speaker 03

  Also, we're already in Techtober.

• 1:23:15Speaker 03

  Marquez, can you actually scroll reels on there? Like, for real? For reals. No joke. Damn, that was good.

• 1:23:24Speaker 10

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