HAUNTED: San Pedro Poltergeist

In the late 1980s, a woman named Jackie Hernandez experienced poltergeist activity in her home in San Pedro, California. But it went beyond the traditional haunting when one of the spirits tried to hang someone in her home. Eventually, Jackie learned the identity of the spirits—and supposedly why they were so eager for revenge—though the hauntings didn’t stop after that...

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  When it comes to the supernatural, I think all of us have our lines we draw on the sand. Either you believe in aliens or not. Either you think time travel is possible or it isn't. Either a curse exists or they're a figment of our imagination. For me, that line of skepticism has always fallen just short of Ouija boards. Hear me out. How could a cardboard Hasbro game with a plastic plan sheet really communicate with the dead? Like, what could possibly give these things supernatural powers beyond our understanding? But as I learned more about the paranormal, I sort of think, maybe I should be freaked

• 0:44Speaker 00

  out by these things after all. Because the more ghost stories I hear, the more Ouija boards seem to play a part in them. And apparently, they really piss off the dead. Or, in the case of today's story, answer some really pressing questions. In the late 80s, a woman named Jackie Hernandez was dealing with some supernatural forces in her house in San Pedro, California. And apparently, with the help of a Ouija board, she learned exactly who was haunting her, and then some. But this case went beyond your normal haunted house story. It wasn't just furniture moving or whispers in the dark. No.

• 1:29Speaker 00

  The ghost Jackie encountered allegedly tried to murder someone violently in her attic. I'm Ashley Flowers, and this is So Supernatural.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  I hope everyone is tuning in right now from somewhere comfy, cozy, and private. Because today's story is the sort of thing that might make you feel a little bit paranoid, almost like you're being watched. I'm Rasha Pecoraro.

• 2:29Yvette Gentile?

  And I'm Yvette Gentile. Now, as soon as we started looking into today's case on the San Pedro poltergeist, one particular detail stood out. This isn't just a story about a haunting. It's also a case of mistaken identity.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  And sadly, that's an issue most of us have dealt with at some point or another. I mean, tell me you haven't been here before. You're out in public at the mall. You spot a friend walking into your favorite store, so you run over to say hi, only to realize it's not your friend. It's just someone who resembles them from a distance.

• 3:10Yvette Gentile?

  And that's before you get into really serious cases of mistaken identity, where people get scammed, or they find themselves in legal trouble, or experience physical harm just because they're confused with someone else. But one of the spookiest stories I've ever heard on the topic starts with a woman named Jackie Hernandez.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  Let's go back to the beginning, to November of 1988. Jackie's in a pretty bad situation. She's 26 years old, a mother of one with another baby on the way. And she's just decided to leave her husband. Now, I don't know the reason for the split, but as far as I can tell, it's nothing violent or dangerous. Now, Jackie needs a fresh place to live and a new home that fits into her modest budget. So she leaves her nice place in Los Angeles and buys a cheap, tiny bungalow in San Pedro, California.

• 4:09Yvette Gentile?

  San Pedro is just south of LA. Its main claim to fame is that it's home to the biggest port in the US. And a lot of people who live here work in the shipping industry or on the docks. All to say, it's not as glitzy or as glamorous as LA. It's exactly the type of place that Jackie needs at this stage of her life. She's young and she doesn't make a lot of money. In fact, she has to work multiple part-time jobs just to cover her bills. Her soon-to-be ex-husband Al is still in the picture and he's doing his best to chip in a little. Their divorce isn't finalized yet, so he doesn't owe any child support or alimony. But he wants his kids to be taken care of.

• 4:52Yvette Gentile?

  So he sends a check to Jackie every now and then. Still, it's a challenge for her to make ends meet for herself, her two-year-old son Jamie, and the baby that's on the way. But that's just the beginning of her struggles. Because almost immediately upon moving in, Jackie gets a bad feeling from the house. Like something isn't quite right. Sometimes she'll be cooking, cleaning, or handling other chores just to get this really eerie sensation, as if somebody's watching her. Each time this happens, Jackie stops what she's doing to look around the room. And without fail, it always turns out that she's alone.

• 5:37Yvette Gentile?

  Like, she's just imagining it. Then one evening, late at night, when she's lying in her bed and trying to sleep, she hears this noise coming from above. Like some kind of animal is running around on the attic. You know, like when you hear that thumping noise and you think, oh my god, it's a squirrel or whatever, right? It's hard to say what's up there. But Jackie assumes it's a mouse or something not worth worrying about. Over time, the noises start changing. Jackie starts hearing shrieks and screams coming from the walls of the home. And she knows mice don't shriek and scream like that. But Jackie tries to convince herself it's all okay.

• 6:22Yvette Gentile?

  That these are just typical noises you get, you know, from an older house just settling in. However, it gets a bit harder to ignore when certain objects start moving on their own. Like Jackie will set something down on a counter, only for it to later turn up on a table in a completely different room. Even though Jackie is confident that she didn't move the item, and neither did her toddler Jamie, she tries to tell herself she must just be misremembering where she placed it the first time. Maybe she did leave it on the table after all.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  But the more that time goes on, the harder it is for Jackie to come up with grounded explanations for everything she's experiencing. Especially after one of her neighbors, a woman named Darlene Mungia, comes over for a visit. That day, Jackie and Darlene are sitting in the living room. Her son Jamie isn't home, so Jackie and Darlene are free to unwind and just enjoy themselves. They're talking story when they hear this massive crash come from the kitchen. Right away, Jackie checks to see what's going on. And she finds that a painting she has of a goose has fallen off the wall. It's now lying on her countertop.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  The weird thing is that usually this goose painting goes right next to the refrigerator, but the counter where it fell is on the complete opposite side of the kitchen. It's five feet away from the wall it was hanging on. The only way it could have gotten there was if someone physically moved it. Except Jackie and Darlene are the only people at home right now.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  But once again, Jackie convinces herself with an excuse. She suspects that she could be hallucinating because of the pregnancy.

• 8:14Yvette Gentile?

  So, Russia, I gotta ask you, have you experienced, like, when you were pregnant, any type of hallucinations like this?

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Other than wanting to eat poke because I wasn't allowed to and imagining it was there? No.

• 8:26Yvette Gentile?

  Okay, well, for the record, this is a real thing. I mean, according to a 2014 research study, all of the hormones and stress of carrying a child can make some women hear voices and sounds that aren't actually there.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  That makes sense.

• 8:42Yvette Gentile?

  I mean, they say that it's so common that four out of five mothers, in a different study, reported they had at least one hallucination between conception and their child's birth. And sometimes, they were so intense that the expectant mother sought mental health treatment. And to be clear, most of the time, this is normal and natural, and not anything to be worried about. And that's what Jackie figures, too, that she's just imagining things. I mean, that doesn't explain how Darlene also saw the goose painting on the counter. But at this point, Jackie just wants to ignore the problem and hope it just goes away on its own. Even though, the evidence is becoming undeniable.

• 9:27Yvette Gentile?

  She continues to hope that this is just something she needs to put up with for a few more months. And then, after the baby's born, maybe everything will just go back to normal.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  Except in April of 1989, Jackie gives birth to her daughter Samantha. And even though she's not pregnant anymore, Jackie still hears these weird sounds at night. And she's still finding that things are moving from the original place that she left them. Basically, the phenomenon hasn't changed. In fact, things are getting weirder. Her house starts springing leaks everywhere. And we're not talking water leaks. Jackie finds this strange liquid oozing out through light switches and puddling under walls. It's thick and yellowish-red.

• 10:20Yvette Gentile?

  Even then, Jackie still wants to believe non-s supernatural explanations. So she convinces herself that it's rusty water and a pipe must have sprung a leak somewhere inside of her walls. Except every time Jackie gets close to calling a plumber, the leak just suddenly stops on its own. And since money's tight, she doesn't want to call a plumber and pay them if the problem just solves itself. But then, something happens that Jackie really can't explain away. We don't know the exact date for this, but one day, Jackie runs to the store to pick up some groceries. And when she's bringing them inside to put them away, she sees something odd on the refrigerator.

• 11:05Yvette Gentile?

  So y'all might remember those colorful alphabet refrigerator magnets from when you were a kid. Like, I totally remember those because mom used to write out like my chores, you know, in those little magnets. Well, Jackie has these as well. And when she gets home that afternoon, Jackie sees that the magnets on her fridge have been rearranged with a message. One that reads, "Get the hell out." Obviously, Jamie and Samantha are both way too young to know how to spell and write. I mean, they didn't leave the message, and Jackie knows she didn't write it herself. But Jackie doesn't know what else to do other than put her groceries away and keep living

• 11:49Yvette Gentile?

  her life. Then, night falls. That evening, Jackie tucks both of her kids in and is enjoying some quiet time before heading to bed herself. That's when she hears this heavy breathing. Only it's not right next to her. It's so loud that she can hear it coming from the other side of the house. Even scarier, when she follows the sound, she finds it's coming from her son Jamie's bedroom. Jackie checks on Jamie to make sure he's okay. But when she gets into the room, she sees that Jamie isn't alone. There's an older man sitting on his bed.

• 12:33Yvette Gentile?

  Jackie has never seen this guy before, and she has no idea how he got inside. Before she can even react, the man looks up at Jackie. She sees that his eyes are an unnatural shade of red. And then, he disappears in the blink of an eye. Jackie is so freaked out that before long, although I'm not exactly sure when, she reaches out to her neighbor Susan Castaneda for help. And luckily for her, Susan has a brilliant suggestion. Susan's very into the supernatural, so when she hears Jackie's story, she immediately thinks the old man must be a ghost.

• 13:16Yvette Gentile?

  I mean, how else could he disappear into thin air like that? Even better, just the night before, she watched a TV special about a haunted ship called the Queen Mary, which happens to be docked in Long Beach, near the San Pedro area. On this special, a paranormal investigator named Barry Taft was investigating the Queen Mary. Susan figures maybe he'll be willing to see what's going on at Jackie's house, too. So she encourages Jackie to look up his number and give him a call. Jackie's willing to try anything at this point, so she gets in touch with Barry, who agrees to come to her home on August 8, 1989.

• 14:00Yvette Gentile?

  But when he shows up, he's not alone. He has a whole camera crew with him. Because if whatever's happening at Jackie's house is real, he wants to document it. He fails to realize that he and his crew won't just be ghost hunting. They are stepping into a life-threatening situation.

• 14:28Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Ashley Flowers.

• 14:30Speaker 03

  And I'm Britt. And if you're on the edge of your seat, listening to this show, Crime Junkie needs to be your next listen.

• 14:36Speaker 00

  Every Monday, I dive into a new true crime case that our reporting team has been on the ground looking into. From lesser-known disappearances to the most chilling cases hitting the headlines. And I'm gonna walk you through it the way I tell my best friend, because, well, that's what I'm doing.

• 14:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's me. And I'm right there with you as we listen together, react to every wild detail, and of course, I ask all the questions.

• 14:59Speaker 00

  And I'm gonna have the answers, because we have case files. We're talking to detectives and family members, and we're gonna stay focused on the facts.

• 15:07Speaker 03

  So if you're not already listening to Crime Junkie, what are you waiting for? There are over 300 episodes available right now.

• 15:13Speaker 00

  And you can listen to new episodes of Crime Junkie every Monday, wherever you get your podcasts.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  In November of 1988, Jackie Hernandez moves into a bungalow in San Pedro, California. Right away, spirits begin terrorizing her and her two children. So nine months later, in August of 1989, she asks paranormal investigator Barry Taft to come see her home, and he brings an entire camera crew with him. Right after they arrive, they walk through the entire house to get a feel for the place. While they're looking around, Jackie's friend Susan stops by for an unannounced visit. When she realizes what's going on, she decides to stay for a bit. First of all, because she's curious about what they'll find out.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  And second, because she knows Jackie is freaked the F out, and she wants to be a good friend.

• 16:13Yvette Gentile?

  I totally understand that, because when we went to the Franklin house, I had my bestie Melissa there, like, to stand guard, so...

• 16:21Speaker 03

  She was our Hawaiian warrior.

• 16:23Yvette Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 16:23Speaker 03

  When we were recording Root of Evil, yes.

• 16:26Yvette Gentile?

  Yeah, so I completely understand why Jackie needs her friend there with her. Anyhow, later, the team passes by a hatch that opens into the attic. For context, this is one of those attics that doesn't have a traditional door or stairs. It's just a hole in the ceiling right above the laundry room, and you have to climb a ladder to get up there. But once the team's in the laundry room near the hatch, they all get a really bad feeling, like they're not supposed to be there. And here's the thing. Barry's cameraman, Jeff Wheatcraft, doesn't believe in ghosts. He's one of those skeptics.

• 17:10Yvette Gentile?

  This is just a job for him, and he doesn't expect to find anything unusual in Jackie's house either, other than maybe a mouse infestation or some old creaky piping. So Jeff insists that they're all just imagining things. The bad feeling is probably just their nerves. Then he, he himself, offers to go into the attic alone. Except, once he's at the top, Jeff starts to become a believer real quick, because he gets the sense that someone is watching him. And he keeps seeing something out of the corner of his eye, but only it's too dark for him to tell what it is.

• 17:55Yvette Gentile?

  Jeff decides to snap a photo to see if he can capture something. So he lifts his 35-millimeter camera, and he's just about to push the shutter button. Then the camera flies out of his hand, almost like someone just yanked it away from him. Jeff is so friggin' startled that he actually screams. Then he hurries down the ladder just to see Jackie, Barry, and the rest of the team waiting for him with concerned looks on their faces. Jeff tells them what happened, and he's clear that he didn't just drop the camera. Someone took it from him.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  He still doesn't believe in ghosts. Like, I don't know why he doesn't believe in ghosts. Man just got his camera yanked out of his hand. Right? But Jeff can't explain how this happened. More importantly, he needs to get his camera back. Because as we know, a 35mm camera is a very expensive piece of equipment. So that means, he has to man up and be brave enough to take another trip back up there.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  So another crew member agrees to go with him this time, so he's not alone. And he ends up bringing a powerful flashlight, so at least they won't be fumbling around in the dark. Which is a good thing, because the camera isn't easy to find. But when they do discover it, they see it's not in one piece. Somehow, the lens got unscrewed from the rest of it. It's lying on the floor not too far from the attic entrance. But the main part of the camera is on the opposite side of the room, fully 15 feet away. And it's inside an open fruit crate. There's no way that it ended up there by accident. If Jeff had just dropped the camera, and the lens popped off when it hit the ground,

• 19:55Speaker 01

  you'd expect to find both pieces right there on the floor. There's no way it could have bounced up and into the crate on the other side of the room. Someone had to put it there. Even weirder, both the camera and the lens are intact. There's no damage whatsoever. Which, again, isn't what you'd expect if he dropped them on the ground. The best theory anyone can come up with at this point is that someone must have grabbed Jeff's camera, taken it apart, and then set the pieces down on opposite sides of the attic. So even though Jeff and his fellow crew members are terrified at this point, they search the space, top to bottom. They're looking for any evidence that some intruder

• 20:40Speaker 01

  might have broken into Jackie's home and is still hiding up there. And sure enough, there's zero sign of anyone.

• 20:49Yvette Gentile?

  By the time they get down to the ground floor, everybody is spooked. And that's when they hear footsteps coming from right above their heads, as though the attic, which they just searched and confirmed was empty, now has someone in it. Jackie decides to go up and take a look for herself this time. But when she tries to open the latch, she can't. It's like somebody's on the other side of it, holding it closed each time she tries to push it open. It doesn't matter how hard Jackie shoves, the door is shut. But after a few seconds, the footsteps fade.

• 21:33Yvette Gentile?

  Then, all of a sudden, Jackie is able to open the door again, no problem. Naturally, nobody wants to go up in the attic at this point. I mean, can you blame them? Even Jackie has changed her mind about it. But Jeff agrees to stand at the top of the ladder, hold his camera above his head, and take some pictures. Which is how he captures photos of a disembodied ball of light drifting through the air.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  So at this point, Barry and the others have seen several signs of a haunting. And they've captured part of it on film. They also collect samples of that thick fluid that's still regularly oozing out of Jackie's walls. They plan to send it to a lab for testing. They tell Jackie they'll analyze it and get her the results as soon as they can. And then they get out of there as fast as their legs can carry them. But in the meantime, Jackie doesn't really know what to do with herself. Because the haunting is still going on, and it's getting worse. After Barry's investigation, she regularly sees objects floating across the room on their own. Sometimes,

• 22:50Speaker 01

  they lift off of shelves or the ground and actually strike her. Even her kids aren't safe. On at least one occasion, Jackie's watching her toddler Jamie walk across the room with a toy in his hand. All of a sudden, the toy goes flying.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  Jamie doesn't throw it or drop it. It just lifts into the air on its own and flies away. Right afterward, Jamie falls to the ground, and it's clear from his body language that he didn't trip or stumble. Something invisible pushed him. Now, Jamie's not upset. He's too young to understand how strange and concerning this is. But Jackie is freaking out. This ghost is now going after her children. She needs to find a way to keep them safe. But the problem is that she can't afford to move somewhere new. As dangerous as this ghost is, it can't be worse than becoming unhoused.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  So over the course of the next few days and weeks, Jackie keeps calling Barry. She begs him to explain what's going on and what she can do to keep her and her kids safe. But sadly, Barry doesn't have a whole lot of answers until he gets those results back from the lab about that yellowish goo. And the results say it's actually blood plasma. It's the stuff that carries nutrients, proteins, hormones, and waste products around our body. The lab also knows it came from a human source. We have to remember DNA testing is still in its infancy since we're in the late 1980s,

• 24:36Speaker 01

  so the scientists can't tell exactly who it came from. But they do say it's from a man, meaning Jackie couldn't have planted it after extracting it from her own body. So it's unclear where this goo could have come from. So this seems to freak Jackie out even more because on September 3rd, 1989, she leaves a message on Barry's machine. If you listen to it, you can just hear the terror in her voice. She literally screams on the line and then says, "I have got to get out of here. I can't stay here." That same day, he and his team drive back to her place

• 25:21Speaker 01

  to settle the matter once and for all.

• 25:24Yvette Gentile?

  Jackie agrees to let Barry and his crew inside to gather more samples and run more tests. She also invites Susan, her backup, to come over again, so she's not alone. And pretty early on, Barry's team decides they want to go back to the place where everything happened during their last visit. And of course, his cameraman Jeff is there too. He heads upstairs with another member of the crew, a photographer named Gary Bohm. But the attic seems to be completely empty, other than the crate that Jeff's camera fell into the last time around. They walk around for about five minutes or so, and still, absolutely nothing happens.

• 26:10Yvette Gentile?

  It's starting to look like this investigation is going to be a waste of time. Then, someone shouts from downstairs on the ground floor. They're all hearing a sound, like fingers snapping. But nobody is doing it themselves. So Jeff and Gary head down to see what's going on. Gary leads the way, but then Jeff takes one step. And it's impossible to say what happens after that, because to this day, Jeff doesn't remember. His mind just goes blank. I do know that when Gary turns around to look at Jeff, he's not standing behind him anymore. Instead, Jeff's hanging from the ceiling.

• 26:56Yvette Gentile?

  There's a clothesline wrapped around his neck like a makeshift noose. It's unclear exactly where the cord came from, but Jackie usually keeps a clothesline in the laundry room, so it must have somehow made its way into the attic. And it's hooked around a nail that's sticking out of a support beam. Jeff's feet are off the ground, his jaw is slack, and it's pretty clear that he's seconds away from suffocating to death. Gary only pauses long enough to snap a picture or two, which, "The man is hanging and you're gonna take a picture, but I guess he wants to get evidence." I guess because nobody's gonna believe that this has actually happened.

• 27:41Yvette Gentile?

  Then, okay, he gets Jeff down and he brings him to safety. Everyone checks to make sure, first and foremost, that Jeff is okay. And they all agree that they're never setting foot in the attic again. Because whatever's up there, it's clearly capable of murder.

• 28:10Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Ashley Flowers.

• 28:11Speaker 03

  And I'm Britt. And if you're on the edge of your seat listening to this show, Crime Junkie needs to be your next listen.

• 28:17Speaker 00

  Every Monday, I dive into a new true crime case that our reporting team has been on the ground looking into. From lesser-known disappearances to the most chilling cases hitting the headlines. And I'm gonna walk you through it the way I tell my best friend, because, well, that's what I'm doing.

• 28:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's me. And I'm right there with you as we listen together, react to every wild detail, and of course, I ask all the questions.

• 28:41Speaker 00

  And I'm gonna have the answers, because we have case files. We're talking to detectives and family members, and we're gonna stay focused on the facts.

• 28:48Speaker 03

  So if you're not already listening to Crime Junkie, what are you waiting for? There are over 300 episodes available right now.

• 28:54Speaker 00

  And you can listen to new episodes of Crime Junkie every Monday, wherever you get your podcasts.

• 29:05Yvette Gentile?

  On September 3rd, 1989, a team of paranormal investigators examined the home of Jackie Hernandez for a second time. When their cameraman goes into the attic, some unseen entity attacks him. It nearly hangs him to death from the ceiling.

• 29:24Speaker 01

  He's brought to safety and doesn't have any serious injuries from what I could tell. But for Jackie, the nightmare is about to get even worse. Because while everyone is with Jeff, Jackie's friend Susan goes to check on baby Samantha. And she sees something red on Samantha's forehead. It looks like blood. Susan goes to Jackie immediately, and of course Jackie is freaking out. She runs to Samantha's side and touches the injury on her head. Except, it turns out, the baby isn't hurt at all. The red smudge wipes away and the skin underneath is unbroken, thank goodness. No one knows what it is, and while it didn't hurt Samantha,

• 30:10Speaker 01

  the message is very clear. "I can get to you and your children whenever I want." Now, we know this isn't the first time the ghost has interacted with Jackie's kids. We know the old man appeared in Jamie's bed one night and pushed him over at least once. But for Jackie, this is the last straw.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  Even though she doesn't know where else to go, she grabs her kids and leaves the house that night. It's just about the last time she ever sets foot in the San Pedro home. Shortly afterward, she reconciles with her husband Al, who she's still legally married to, because the divorce hasn't been finalized yet. She and her children end up moving back in with him. And presumably, she sells the San Pedro house around this time.

• 31:00Yvette Gentile?

  Well, I've got to imagine at this point Jackie is breathing a sigh of relief, right? I mean, she managed to escape from the spirit. Or at least, she thinks she did. Soon Jackie finds herself in another difficult situation when she remembers why she split with Al in the first place. They break up a second time. And once again, Jackie needs to find a new place to live. The only place she likes that's in her budget is way outside of LA. It's in a place called Kern County, California. And that's about a three and a half hour drive north of all of her friends and neighbors.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  Once the paperwork is signed, Jackie reaches out to some pals to help her move. They haul all of her furniture to her new place and then help put it away. This includes a TV set that she's temporarily storing in a shed behind her new house. It's unplugged and definitely not in use. But once the friends put it down, they see a face appear on the screen. Specifically, an old man's face. He has striking, evil-looking eyes. Exactly like the old man Jackie saw in her son's bedroom back when she was living in the San Pedro house.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  And if that's not eerie enough, all throughout the night, Jackie hears a pounding noise coming from inside that shed. Like something's trapped inside and is trying to get out.

• 32:42Speaker 01

  That's when Jackie gets in touch with Barry again. And this time, she says, "No more filming. We need to take this seriously and solve this situation now." Because it seems at this point, the spirit has followed Jackie to her new home. Barry says he and his team can perform a séance. Maybe they can find out what the spirit wants and what they need to move on from her. Which, to me, sounds pretty risky, but at this point, Jackie's desperate. In fact, she has an idea. She wants to use a Ouija board during the ritual to communicate as much as she can with the spirit.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  Now Barry has his doubts. He thinks Ouija boards are just toys. They don't have supernatural powers. And he doesn't expect it to work. Still, Jackie is insistent, so Barry agrees. In his mind, the worst that can happen is that they waste some time messing around with the game. So they set up the board and ask a few questions.

• 33:50Speaker 01

  And weird things start happening. First, the room becomes frigid in an instant. It's so cold that they pause the séance just to light the fireplace. Once the fire is up and roaring, they go back to the Ouija board. They ask questions out loud and the table begins to shake. There are lit candles in the room and they all begin to flicker. At the same time, the planchette flies across the board so fast, they almost can't read the answers. Someone grabs a pen and paper to jot everything down as quickly as they can before they forget what's being said.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  Which is good, because the spirit that's controlling the piece is writing a long story. It's not just a word or two, it's paragraphs long. They tell Jackie, she isn't just being haunted by one ghost. She has two. One of whom is good, and one who's evil.

• 34:56Yvette Gentile?

  First of all, can I just say, the fact that they're playing this game, the Ouija board and doing this séance, is so frightening to me, because I feel like if you're playing with that stuff, like you need to have somebody there with you who knows all about that energy, because you could be conjuring up all kinds of stuff.

• 35:16Speaker 01

  Absolutely, you can bring or open up a whole new portal. Yes, yes. The Ouija board tells them that the evil spirit is the ghost of a man who died 60 years ago in 1930. He doesn't tell Jackie his name, but he says he's a murder victim who died in the San Pedro Bay by her old house, right where the docks are. The spirit says his killer pushed him into the water and then held him under the waves until he drowned.

• 35:53Yvette Gentile?

  Afterward, the vengeful ghost returned to his murderer's house to haunt the man who took his life. As in, the exact same house in San Pedro that Jackie used to live in. He remained there even after his killer moved out, right up until Jackie launched the paranormal investigation. The ghost also explains that he's not usually violent, but it just so happens that Jeff, the cameraman, looks an awful lot like his murderer.

• 36:34Yvette Gentile?

  So when the spirit saw him wandering through the attic, he flew into a rage and attacked him. That's why he broke the camera and why he tried to hang him. It was all a case of mistaken identity.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  Now Jackie, Barry, and the others still don't know the spirit's name, but those specific details that he died 60 years ago in the San Pedro Bay are enough to point them in the right direction while they do research. And shockingly, they find news reports of a man who died on March 25th, 1930. His name was Herman Hendrickson. Unfortunately, those newspapers don't include photos of Herman, so we don't know if he looked like the old man that Jackie saw in the San Pedro house. But, listen to this. His body was found floating in the San Pedro Bay.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  The police ruled his cause of death as an accidental drowning, not a homicide. They believed that he slipped, fell, hit his head on the dock, and drowned. He even had a head injury that was consistent with this narrative. Now Jackie can't help but wonder if he actually was murdered and the police just came to the wrong conclusion. If so, he never received justice. No wonder his angry spirit took up residence in her home.

• 38:04Yvette Gentile?

  So now Jackie knows who one of the ghost is. But remember, the Ouija board said there were two ghosts haunting her. She still doesn't know anything about the second entity. And this mystery is a lot harder for her to solve. Since that other spirit didn't actually speak up during the séance. But he has other ways of making his presence felt.

• 38:30Yvette Gentile?

  A short while later, in the spring of 1990, Jackie is back in San Pedro again. Presumably visiting probably Susan and Darlene. I'm not sure if she's staying with a friend or in a hotel. But the point is, she's keeping her distance from the old house. She doesn't want anything to do with the ghost. We don't know exactly where she's staying. But she steps outside at one point to get some fresh air. It's a nice day, the sun is shining, and the weather is beautiful. But Jackie can't focus on any of that. Because she sees something strange in the yard. It's a ball of light that's floating in the air.

• 39:14Yvette Gentile?

  For whatever reason, Jackie isn't afraid of it. In fact, her instincts tell her to walk toward it. And when she does, it moves out of her yard toward the sidewalk. When Jackie goes onto the sidewalk, it drifts down the block. Almost like it's trying to get her to follow. And that's exactly what Jackie does. She trails the light all the way down to the local graveyard. It leads her to one headstone in particular. One that belongs to someone named John Damon. The light circles a few times, almost like it's saying,

• 39:59Yvette Gentile?

  "Here it is, here it is, you found what I wanted you to see." And then it just disappears.

• 40:06Yvette Gentile?

  Later on, Jackie looks at some old newspaper clippings to see what she can find out about this guy named John Damon. And she learns that's the name of the man who built the San Pedro House she was living in. So she figures, he must be the second spirit.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  And I wish I could tell you that Jackie eventually finds the perfect solution and gets rid of the ghost forever, but I can't. From everything I read, the haunting continues for a while. As in Jackie moves a few more times to try and get some peace, but each time she settles into a new home, strange paranormal things keep on happening, like the ghosts are with her no matter where she goes. It's not clear to me if she ever attempts another séance or uses the Ouija board again, but from the sound of things, she eventually comes to accept the ghost's presence and even enjoys its company to some extent.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  On top of that, new residents in her San Pedro home say the ghosts are still there. They hear strange noises in the attic and get the sensation of something watching them. But as far as I can tell, no one has experienced a violent attack like what happened with Jeff, the cameraman.

• 41:29Yvette Gentile?

  Okay, but as always, the skeptics have their doubts about Jackie's story. So they claim that Jackie could have faked the haunting since she was the only one, I mean, outside of her young children, who bore witness to a lot of the crucial events. She may have made up the story about the man appearing in her son's bedroom, the words forming on her refrigerator, and her things moving around the house. And some think Barry and his crew might have gone along with the deception because ultimately, they might have been that desperate for evidence of the paranormal. Even their photos and videos could have been staged.

• 42:15Yvette Gentile?

  And remember the lab that tested the sample and found it was blood? Well, conveniently, no one who works there wants to speak about it on record. So we just have to take Barry's word for it, that the results we heard are real and accurate. Yes, you're going to always have the skeptics. But were they all profiting off of this? Like, I don't think that they made that much money. There were only, you know, a few documentaries about this particular story, so I don't know.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  Right. It just doesn't make sense. I mean, what about the photo of Jeff hanging from the ceiling in the attic? It's real, it's online, and you can look at the photo for yourself. It would also be really dangerous to stage something like that. I can't imagine anyone being willing to hang himself just to trick people into thinking that ghosts are real.

• 43:14Yvette Gentile?

  Just to play devil's advocate here, okay? Let's assume he is really in danger. If you look at that photo, you'll notice that you can't actually see Jeff's feet. There's a piece of plywood that's right in the way, so maybe Jeff's standing, who's to say, safely on the ground with a cord loosely wrapped around his neck, and might just be pretending to dangle from the ceiling.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  That's possible, but even if Jeff and Barry faked it, I just can't see what would motivate Jackie to lie. I mean, she's moved multiple times with two young kids in about two years. That is not cheap, and it's not easy. I can't imagine anyone willingly going through all of that just to fake a haunting. And even if Jackie is a liar, I have to wonder why her neighbor Susan would go along with it. Remember, she was present for the investigations, not to mention her other neighbor and friend Darlene, who was there on the day when the goose painting flew across the kitchen. Or the two friends who saw the old man's face on the TV screen in the shed.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  In fact, there were a ton of other incidents where people said they saw signs of the haunting. We couldn't share every single story because otherwise, this episode would have been hours long. But let's just say Darlene regularly babysat Jackie's kids. And on multiple occasions, she heard disembodied voices speaking in the home when she was supposed to be alone. A different babysitter reported seeing that blood-like substance oozing from the walls, too. Jackie's husband Al also heard and saw things when he was visiting the children at the house. I mean, if this was all faked, that means a ton of people had to be in on it.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  The story of the San Pedro Poltergeist would have to involve a massive conspiracy. In my mind, it totally seems likely that the ghosts were real.

• 45:26Yvette Gentile?

  If that's the case, we can't ignore the terrifying element at the heart of this whole story. Because remember, Herman's spirit allegedly tried to murder Jeff. And he got damn close, successfully wrapping a cord around his neck and hanging it from a nail. The worst part might be that Jeff couldn't have anticipated this or done anything to keep himself safe. He didn't do anything wrong, but he had a target on his back because of a bizarre case of mistaken identity by a spirit.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  I think that drives home one very real idea. Every person is imperfect and everybody makes mistakes. Maybe that's still true even after we die and experience whatever comes after this life.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  I know a lot of people are afraid of ghosts, myself included. But it's entirely possible that they're just as afraid of us. Rather than just jumping to conclusions, maybe we should offer these spirits, these lost souls, the same thing we give to the living: empathy, understanding, closure, and peace.

• 47:04Yvette Gentile?

  This is So Supernatural, an AudioChuck original, produced by Crime House. You can connect with us on Instagram at So Supernatural Pod and visit our website at so-supernaturalpodcast.com. Join Rash and me next Friday for an all-new episode.

• 47:24Yvette Gentile?

  I think Chuck would approve.

• 47:30Speaker 04

  When the nights grow longer, the shadows start to stir, and that can only mean one thing: Full Body Chills is back. This season, step inside original tales where every doorway leads somewhere darker, every stranger carries a secret, and nothing is ever quite what it seems. Each story takes you somewhere new, but be careful, you never know what might follow you home. So gather round, listen close, and stream Full Body Chills wherever you get your podcasts.