Part Two: They’re Building A Psychopathic Society. Ancient Faiths All Point To The Cure | Chase Hughes

The World’s #1 leading authority on behavior profiling, nonverbal human communication, influence, and persuasion, Chase Hughes, reveals the psychological systems secretly shaping modern society, and why he believes humanity is living through the biggest PSY OP in history. From government manipulation and engineered division to consciousness, DMT, spirituality, and the loneliness epidemic, this episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown goes far beyond politics and exposes the hidden forces influencing how we think, behave, comply, and perceive reality itself. Chase explains why anger is the media’s most powerful weapon, how fear and tribalism are used to manipulate entire populations, and why most people don’t realize they’re being psychologically programmed in real time. He breaks down his FATE Model (Focus, Authority, Tribe, Emotion) and reveals how governments, institutions, and social media exploit ancient mammalian survival instincts to control human behavior. He also shares why he believes the global response to Covid was the largest psy op ever conducted, why ostracization is humanity’s deepest fear, and how the threat of social rejection can override logic, morality, and independent thinking. The conversation then takes a profound turn into spirituality, altered states of consciousness, and the nature of reality itself. After 9 military deployments and witnessing the psychological effects of violence and desensitization, Chase began searching for deeper answers about consciousness, meaning, and human connection. He describes his first guided DMT experience as “death by astonishment” and “smoking an alien microchip,” revealing the mysterious “code” he saw during the experience and why it completely transformed his understanding of reality, and saved his life. Chase explores whether consciousness is something we create or something we access, why “everything is consciousness” could explain quantum entanglement, and why some people appear to be “banned” from the DMT realm entirely. He also breaks down the hidden similarities across ancient spiritual texts, the most repeated phrase throughout human history’s sacred writings (including 7 Hermetic Principles & the Emerald Tablets), the illusion of separation, and why modern society may be engineering psychopathic behavior through digital isolation and performative social media culture. Chase Hughes also breaks down: - Why history predicts future government behavior - Psychology of mass compliance - Why social media may be destroying authentic human connection - Whether anyone can truly live authentically anymore - Loneliness epidemic & digital relationships - Why we have more in common with political opponents than with the people manipulating us - What humanity gets wrong about prayer - How perception of reality became the throughline of Chase’s life work - Why manipulation works best when people believe they are immune to it This is one of the deepest conversations we’ve ever had on psychology, consciousness, propaganda, spirituality, manipulation, human behavior, DMT, media control, social engineering, and the future of society. NCI, the world’s #1 behavior profiling and influence training: https://nci.university/ Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BialikBreakdown.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.bialikbreakdown.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube.com/mayimbialik⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/mayimbialik%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Mayim Bialik?

  Hi, I'm Iyan Bialik.

• 0:05Jonathan Cohen?

  And I'm Jonathan Cohen.

• 0:06Mayim Bialik?

  And welcome to part two of our conversation with Chase Hughes, the leading authority in behavioral profiling and persuasion, but also someone who's done a deep dive into neuroscience and the connecting points across nearly 200 ancient texts. We're going to talk about that in this part of the conversation with Chase Hughes, as well as his exploration of spirituality and how a psychedelic journey using DMT opened up an entirely new view of the nature of reality and even a field of consciousness. Here is part two of our conversation with Chase Hughes.

• 0:44Jonathan Cohen?

  One of the other things that we talk a lot about on the podcast is awareness, consciousness, and what we're capable of, like what is beyond our five senses? And this connects to me from the loneliness epidemic because as a kid, I started discovering energy work at 17. And I had an experience that kind of blew the lid off of my reality, where I was like, wait a second, I can sense energy, I can feel energy. And the kids that I was going to school with were 17 and like not thinking about somatic emotional release or, you know, can you stop time? Can you set intention? Like, this was a lot of years ago.

• 1:28Jonathan Cohen?

  And the vocabulary wasn't in the culture at that time. So for me, I was like hiding this little hippie exercises that I was doing because I thought it would make me crazy. And I would try to talk to people and they'd be like, what the fuck? Like, there was just no way to interact with a normal teenager. I was reading The Shaman's Way and thinking about like, can you travel to the underworld and have a soul retrieval? And I would like try to bring that up at a party. And people are like, I went to university and people are just like getting hammered and like... There was a massive disconnect. So I sort of tucked that away and I had that world. And then I didn't do that well in trying to fit into the other world because it felt not

• 2:12Jonathan Cohen?

  real. What opened for you personally when it comes to spirituality? Obviously, your work experience and behavioral analysis and the psyops helped you see what was being misdirected in terms of culture, in terms of messaging, in terms of news, in terms of the behavior and how people were interacting. But there's a layer deeper than that. And I was hoping you could take us through what broke open for you and what you explored.

• 2:40Mayim Bialik?

  I'll be super honest. I'm sure you can tell from what I said. I didn't know who you are. Everybody knows who you are, but I didn't know who you are. So when I started reading your bio and like doing the research that Valerie helps us do, I was like, wait, I don't understand who this person is. He's got all this knowledge and it's amazing and like, oh, he created all these things and people go to him. But wait a second, why are we talking about the nature of reality? And I think that's so fascinating to me. And my friend Elizabeth has a huge crush on you. And I get it because you're so deep on all these different levels. But yeah, can you talk to us about why someone like you, right? The last person I would think is thinking about spirituality, or mysticism, or what's beyond the veil, or we're all looking at a projection. What happened in

• 3:25Mayim Bialik?

  your life that took you there? Like, that's just the layperson question.

• 3:30Speaker 02

  I think it would start with, I did nine deployments.

• 3:34Mayim Bialik?

  Can you just tell us a little bit about what that means in terms of your story? Because I think we've become very jaded. We hear like, oh, he was deployed. Can you talk about what of those experiences, as general or specific as you'd like, led to some of the evolution that you've gone through?

• 3:51Speaker 02

  I think just like seeing the vast, massive chasm between this life and then how something is over there where they're just comfortable in.

• 4:05Speaker 02

  Daily guts and blood and crazy stuff is just norm for children, for children. And then coming back here, it was such a perspective shift that the moment that I started bitching about something, the moment like in my head even, I'm like complaining about something, I feel like a horrible narcissist, just kind of seeing this crazy comparison in my mind. And after the military, I did a, I did my first psychedelic journey. I was a man of science at the time, you know, it was like I was materialist, reductionist, that kind

• 4:49Speaker 02

  of viewpoint. It was a guided journey with a person that was intended to kind of like, you know, shake the snow globe back up to get a fresh snowfall on all of the perceptions. So this first journey, I was like, oh my God, I have empathy for like the grass outside, like stuff that I didn't think was possible. And then I was, as I understand it with the numbers, I'm 41st person in the world to do five hours of intravenous DMT. Whoa, that stuff is, is heavy stuff. I did it because I have a brain disease. I have two brain diseases. I have mesial temporal sclerosis and I have temporal lobe epilepsy. So doing

• 5:34Speaker 02

  everything I can to generate this chemical called BDNF and another chemical called NGF, which is brain derived neurotrophic factor and nerve growth factor, to try to like grow tissue around these dead areas in my brain.

• 5:46Mayim Bialik?

  Terrence McKenna has talked about DMT. We've talked about it a bit here. Yeah, give us your sort of, you know, primer on DMT for people who don't know what it is.

• 5:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think if you talk to someone who's done it, I don't think you'll hear that person refer to it as a hallucinogen. I just think they call it that because it's in that, they needed a label, they needed a drawer to kind of put it in. It is an ineffable experience. And the way that Terrence McKenna described it was, what you experience is death by astonishment.

• 6:19Mayim Bialik?

  It's amazing.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  It's the most profound way I've ever heard it explained. Three words. But I came out of that and it, just to explain it, it's the experience on DMT is like, Maybe 10,000 times more real than this reality.

• 6:37Mayim Bialik?

  What does that mean? Like, if you could try and explain it, like, this feels real, this is real, like, this is real, everything's real, there's water, like, I have control of my faculties. What could be more real than that?

• 6:51Speaker 02

  Yes, but everything you just demonstrated could also be done in a dream. For the record.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  So, DMT is...

• 7:03Speaker 02

  It's so hard to explain with language. It's like, language is a net that the holes in the net are too big to kind of catch any of that understanding. But it's like, if we're living in 4K, right here in this reality, this is like

• 7:21Speaker 02

  9,000K of reality, of like, definition, clarity, and it feels like home. This is about 100% of people report that inside of this realm that you go to,

• 7:35Speaker 02

  it does not feel hallucinogenic at all, when you kind of teleport to this whatever. And the way that I explained it to one of my friends recently, he was like, "Oh yeah, it's like mushrooms." I was like, "No, not at all." I was like, "Mushrooms is like, you're kind of getting guided by this gentle, usually a woman, female shaman, and this is like, you're walking in the woods and you find an alien spaceship, and you pop out the main microchip out of the alien computer, and then you smoke that. You're smoking an alien microchip. That's basically what it is."

• 8:07Jonathan Cohen?

  That's the best definition or explanation I've heard. When you had the IV, you're in this state for like, hours? Because I've heard it's a very short acting normally, so how did you enter it, and like, did you slowly get there? Was it like, an immediate, all of a sudden it hit you? Walk us through that process a little bit.

• 8:29Speaker 02

  It's pretty immediate. So, it's in your, like, you have a... IV line in and they have this machine that's basically like an anesthesia administration machine with a giant fat ass syringe on it and this thing that pushes the plunger at a certain milliliters per hour rate. So you can kind of just tell them the altitude that you want to go like you can increase your altitude, you can lower your altitude, but you're in there for five hours. And if you need to pee or something, they could just go whoomp and like three minutes later, the DMT is gone. Coming out of this experience because it feels like home. It feels so unbelievably like home that coming out of

• 9:12Speaker 02

  this experience, I was crying in the fetal position as they were kind of cranking this thing down because I did not want to come back. And I had this whole thing recorded on video. I asked if I was dead 39 times during this thing. And they'd be like, no, no, everything's okay. But I just, I didn't care either way. It didn't matter to me at all. Like, it didn't matter. But coming back, it felt like there is no way to return here without developing some degree of narcissism to where being a little bit more self-centered. And that was just depressing and weird. Like, the bad part of my journey was returning

• 9:57Speaker 02

  from it. Up there, you're like, oh, my God, this is like base reality. I don't know. That's kind of maybe what I've described it as. Maybe it's, but I mean, there's over a thousand neuroscientists working on DMT research right now. Not one of them thinks that it's a hallucination. Not one, which is pretty remarkable.

• 10:15Mayim Bialik?

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• 10:59Mayim Bialik?

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• 11:44Mayim Bialik?

  It's the best way to support our show.

• 11:46Speaker 02

  All on its own. But coming back, it's like I can't, I can't fully be in this like, whatever it is. I hate to use like hippie descriptive words for it, but I think it's just like a, like you're breathing and swimming in love up there. Like, like the most non judgmental of unbelievable love, like it's the universal language.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  And you come back and you're like, man, if I live like that here, I'm going to get hurt fast. It's going to happen quick, like something's going to happen because I'm not going to be worried about a seatbelt. I'm not going to be worried about all this other stuff that I normally would. But that, that was the most depressing thing. But coming out of the journey, it was like, there is something so far beyond our comprehension. And I think it's, it's amazing that we have scientists out there with unbelievable levels of certainty about everything. And like I did maybe. Six years of neuroscience studying.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  And if you study neuroscience, every other, I don't know, every five minutes, your professor is going to say, as far as we know, or as far as we figured out yet, because we know so little about the brain. And I think we just need way more scientists in that, in that space. Because there's a guy named Ignaz Semmelweis. Have you all heard of him? He invented washing your hands.

• 13:26Mayim Bialik?

  That's right. That's why.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  And he was, he was a surgeon that's like, hey, guys, you know, you know, all this poop and blood and stuff all over our hands? What if we wash that off before we jam our hands inside of another human body? They were so pissed at him that he lost his medical license. And he was involuntarily committed to a mental institution for the rest of his life.

• 13:48Mayim Bialik?

  There are some really, really fascinating studies about DMT. Because, yeah, it is one of these kind of like, you know, there are endogenous sources of it. We, we are wired, you know, to, to process, as it were, some really, really fantastic chemicals. And we speak to a lot of people who have, you know, near death experiences. And one of the hypotheses about this feeling of love and belonging and oneness and finding your true, you know, place in the universe as a soul, you know, may be the result of, right? Some sort of like DMT explosion or fireworks that's happening when the brain, you know, is in a particular dead state, what most of us would say.

• 14:31Mayim Bialik?

  But I want to be clear that this is not a recreational drug that typically, you know, that people are doing to like, feel good and like, because what you're describing is, is a very specific state. But I think there's a lot of context around it, which obviously you've talked about. But I think one of the things, you know, that, that we do need to also provide framework around is like, you know, serotonin is a very powerful neuromessenger, right? And so I think what's, what's interesting and important is being able to separate some of that physiological input from the meaning that we derive from it. And I think that's sort of where, you know, the rubber hits the road here. You know, we've joked about this in passing,

• 15:16Mayim Bialik?

  but there are certain images that people who experience DMT.

• 15:22Mayim Bialik?

  See, there's certain, certain things that do not seem dependent on an individual's experience or trauma history. It seems that, and I'm just gonna like, I'm trying to like, you know, simplify it as much as possible. The idea is that, what if there is a reality that exists beyond this one, that you can tap into in a variety of ways, and that what is revealed is something that is there all along. Meaning, it's already here. We're just, you know, we've got our, our VR headset on, and we don't even know that it's on, right? I think everybody would be fascinated if there are any particular images, right, or,

• 16:05Mayim Bialik?

  or things that you saw. But I'm also wondering if you can speak about what you felt. Because as someone who's lived the life that you have, with the, the trauma that you've experienced, the journey that you've been on, the success you've had, like, if you were to say to us, "There's another reality, there's another truth," what is it? Like, what's, what's underneath all this, for those of us who don't get to have this experience of peeling back that curtain the way you did?

• 16:33Speaker 02

  My first time I ever tried DMT, I was like, you know what, narcissistically, I was like, "I want to know the secrets of the universe." And you kind of go to this other dimension, they're like, "All right, bitch, here you go." And they give you everything, and you come back with nothing. You're like, "Oh my God, I saw everything." And then your friends are like, "Tell me." You're like, "I don't know. I can't remember any of it." So it, it's definitely strange. And now we have this laser experiment, where you can see code in, in reality, if you shine a laser on the wall. And Danny Gold, the guy running it, is a good friend of mine. He figured out one day, I have no idea how. But if you

• 17:14Speaker 02

  shine a fat, diffused laser on the wall, that you can, A, see through the effing wall,

• 17:23Speaker 02

  And B, there's like code, like Japanese alien looking code written on the wall and it's completely static.

• 17:33Mayim Bialik?

  Meaning the experiment is, we are shining this laser light on a wall. And the question is, when under the influence of DMT, can we find any replicatable, right? Reports on what people on DMT see when they look at this laser on a wall? Is that right?

• 17:55Speaker 02

  Yes, and so far they have.

• 17:56Mayim Bialik?

  You're telling me you see through the wall?

• 17:59Speaker 02

  And you can see, well, the code is written like behind the wall. It looks like a foot or a few feet behind the wall. So you're seeing through the actual wall into some other realm. So like, you get close to the wall and you can look down in, you come down and like look up into the wall, in both, in all directions.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  But here's the big thing, when you're on a hallucinogen, things morph and move around and change and all this kind of stuff. This code is permanent and static. So like if I move the laser up on the wall, it just reveals different characters. Like I'm just shining a light on a map.

• 18:39Mayim Bialik?

  For those of you who have seen The Matrix, and there is a notion that there's a completely separate reality that exists, as opposed to the one that you're in, and I'm just gonna spell it out, since I think like, you know, I think, if I'm understanding this correctly, the notion is, what if there is a code of sorts that is the universe that we live in? And we are living a physical manifestation of a code that has been written? Think computer code, think of scrolling numbers, think of The Matrix, right? All this stuff. So the idea is that, and I don't know if this is true, but I'm just like, from what I've studied and what I've learned about you, that when you take DMT, it is opening

• 19:22Mayim Bialik?

  a portal to a different level of, you know, conscious awareness, including one where you are theoretically able to see or access.

• 19:33Mayim Bialik?

  The code, it doesn't mean that we know how to read the code, but it looks like some sort of language and it looks like Japanese characters is right? And it's not a hallucination in that it's moving and it's perceptual. It's something that, that people frequently report in a very specific way. That is in theory, like, what if we've peeled back this layer of what we think of as reality? And what it actually is that reality is, is a, is code that's been written that we're living.

• 20:05Speaker 02

  It rips the certainty out of your body. Like, you're just like, I don't know. And then when you have somebody who hasn't done it, they're like, oh, I know what's happening. It's pareidolia or something like that. Which is our tendency to see faces or hear sounds in static and see patterns. But they've lined up 14 people, I think maybe more. And like draw a circle on the wall with a sharpie and they all see the identical symbols. So the weird thing is that when you're like, you stick your arm up in front of the laser. And I profess to know nothing about what the hell this is. It's just fascinating.

• 20:45Speaker 02

  The code changes to a different type of code when it's, when it's going across like your arm or its tissue of some kind. So we don't know what it is. I don't know what it is, but there is a, absolutely there is a code there. And it's, I think it's a hundred percent of people see it.

• 21:05Jonathan Cohen?

  It's hard not to extrapolate a little bit of meaning. Like you come back from that, it's, you know, based on just even our science fiction movies. You're not like a little bit leaning towards, there's just this code that is the fabric of, of reality. It's like, how do you, how do you stop yourself from making meaning? Or what meaning might you have made, even if you're uncertain about it?

• 21:27Speaker 02

  Every time I start leaning in one direction, I'm like, what a moron. Like you would, I'm an idiot. I'm this tiny little hairless ape trying to figure out this, this reality. But I think something about what we're seeing might be our brain projecting the substrate of consciousness, of what consciousness is, or maybe, I don't think it's an element of that wall. I think it's more of an element of how we're projecting something on a consciousness. So maybe the code is how our brain is, how consciousness is projecting this. I don't know. But that's kind of what I lean towards when I'm thinking about it in private. Thousands

• 22:11Speaker 02

  of people have tried this. We're seeing this code that's absolutely there. You can shine it on a wall or whatever. And some of it, some of my initial belief was that maybe, maybe, this like massive bath of high-volume photons that are just smashing against this wall, because it's like a high-volume laser, is maybe doing something to the wave function collapse feature of reality. And maybe it's just disrupting it enough to where we're seeing the absence of wave function collapse, which would require a whole nother Mayim breakdown.

• 22:53Mayim Bialik?

  Even anything that you perceive in that state has a lens on it, right? Like, that already has a lens, which is why, and this is one of the features of a variety of psychedelic and transcendental experiences, even those without the use of drugs. Not being able to describe it is actually a feature, right, of an experience that is very, you know, high level. And look, I think a lot of people, especially social conservatives, would be like, that's ridiculous. That's a bunch of hippies, just like talking about being high. That's not what this is, right? This is talking about an experience that cannot always be articulated, because it has to be, get ready for an uncomfortable word, felt. It has to be felt, right?

• 23:38Mayim Bialik?

  We get a felt sense of connection. We get a felt sense of safety. For many of us, we call it that felt sense of God, home. You said it feels like home, right? And that that coming down from coming back is not just the serotonergic drop, right? It's that notion of, oh, wait a second. If there's a place that feels like this, I don't want to come back. Which is what almost every single NDE survivor will say. I don't want to go back. And it's usually some light, some force that says, this is gonna hurt, but this is what happens next. And then they wake up, right? And everyone's like, you were dead, right?

• 24:19Mayim Bialik?

  So that notion is what many people seek solace, you know, in. It's why we pray. It's why we get on our knees, right? We're trying to get back home. And yes, it's okay to have a scientific view on this, which I think it really, really helps that you have that to say, guess what? That oneness is what literally got us here millions and billions of years ago.

• 24:44Speaker 02

  And you know, Buddha said this. He said, the Tao that can be spoken is not the Tao. That feeling of wanting to return home and not wanting to come back here. And I've never, never once met anyone who has been on DMT and come back with a lot more certainty to where they're like, oh, I met, I met Aunt, Aunt Phyllis up there. She was up there waiting for me. She had, she had her famous spaghetti casserole. I've never seen any shit like that.

• 25:12Speaker 02

  So there's something to it and there's something absolutely ineffable where it feels unbelievably irresponsible to even try to describe it for me. It feels, it feels super irresponsible.

• 25:26Mayim Bialik?

  How has your life changed? Like, I'm picturing you walking around the world, you know, with this experience, but you're a married person. You have children. What's your interface like with other people after experiencing something like this? And What, what does your brain feel like? You know, does it feel like this was, you know, a treatment that has helped you?

• 25:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that it actually saved my life. I was at a point of like six or seven seizures a day. And for anybody who doesn't know what a temporal lobe seizure is, it rips your ass out of reality. Really quick, you're not laying on the floor like jerking around and stuff. You're just kind of like, it just basically shuts off your body and you're just kind of like, sitting there drooling for a minute or two. Massive amounts of amnesia, motor control loss. And since I did that, that DMT, I, yesterday was day 180 of absolutely seizure free, no cognitive impairment, nothing. And when I've come back, the way that I see other

• 26:30Speaker 02

  people, it was, every time I look at someone else, it just feels like that's us. It's all us. We are all us. Teaching someone morality is unnecessary if you have the mindset of like, that's, that's me. That other person is, is me. I, not just I can see myself in them, but like, that's, that's hurting us. The word us is like, was just never in my head before that experience. And I come back and it's how I kind of see everybody with that us lens.

• 27:00Jonathan Cohen?

  You've also described that there are people who try and spend too much time there that get locked out.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  The admins ban your ass, yeah.

• 27:09Jonathan Cohen?

  Can you explain that? Like, it's kind of unbelievable.

• 27:13Mayim Bialik?

  Is it the little green men? Is this where they come in?

• 27:15Speaker 02

  Probably the jester, the joker archetype, because we all, I mean, there's, there's only about 14 different archetypes. And every human being for 4,500 years has seen the exact same archetypes, same, same beings, or whatever they are. But there are thousands of reports of these people who are kind of abusing it. Not like abusing it, but they go in with a lot of ego, they're using it recreationally all the time. And I think they use it with no reverence. And these are all my own words, but like, they have zero reverence for this, for the sheer size of this molecule. Like, it's big. It's a big, big molecule. But there are thousands of reports where basically they get up to

• 27:58Speaker 02

  this little place and somebody, maybe it's like one of those doors at a nightclub where they slide the little thing open and they're like, hey, you know what? You're not allowed back here anymore.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  The moment that happens, you can read this in thousands of descriptions. Their journey, that little DMT experience instantly ends.

• 28:16Mayim Bialik?

  What?

• 28:17Speaker 02

  They can take a hundred hits. Three hits is a DMT journey. They can do a hundred hits and nothing happens. So their body no longer is capable of like going back into that realm, period.

• 28:29Mayim Bialik?

  This is fascinating because it feels like something that as a scientist I can wrap my head around, right?

• 28:35Speaker 02

  And maybe the mechanism is outside of reductionist.

• 28:39Mayim Bialik?

  A hundred percent.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  Materialism.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  But it's basically these guys like they get banned and they essentially can't go back, which is weird knowing this because just I think a year ago, they proved in rat studies that DMT just explodes into this cascade through the body at the moment of death, which led some people to believe that this is, maybe this is the transporter molecule that kind of sends you up there to go be with Aunt Phyllis and her spaghetti casserole.

• 29:11Mayim Bialik?

  When you die, is there lucidity? I mean, I think is part of the question, right? We hear of people who are in a state of dementia and they'll often have this lucidity right before death, right? Like, meaning they're not speaking, they're catatonic, like we're in the stages of rosary and whatever, you know? And all of a sudden they're like, by the way, you know, here's the recipe for that casserole that you love. So, so the question is also kind of chemically, like, right? What is happening? And why does the brain want to spit this out, right? What, what is it? Why is, does it to ease the pain of death? If someone's not even in a conscious state, does the brain just do it anyway?

• 29:52Mayim Bialik?

  If I were to try and anthropomorphize DMT, it's a truth teller.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:58Mayim Bialik?

  Right? Like it, it sees.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 30:01Mayim Bialik?

  It's the eye of Sauron, right? Like it, it sees your true intention. It can, I mean, it's literally the best science fiction conversation, right? That you can have. There's something that sees you. It knows you can't pretend, you can't fake it, which is fascinating because Chase Hughes is an expert in people faking it, right? And like, and, and what we try and project and the things that we try and hide. And this is like this chemical that says, guess what? You cannot hide from me, right?

• 30:29Speaker 02

  It's very true. And I think anthropomorphizing it might be what we needed. It does feel. Uh, it to everyone, I think that's ever done it. It feels very, very sentient, uh, like something about it. And then the ultimate question, which we don't have to debate here. I just want to plant this mind virus in your head before uh, too long here. Is DMT conscious or is DMT consciousness? Cause like, we're starting to prove with this stuff like from Roger Penrose, uh, and all these new theories of consciousness of like, are we consciousness uh, users or creators? And that's like the ultimate question, or the ultimate, are we just consciousness itself?

• 31:12Jonathan Cohen?

  Where do you sit on that spectrum if you had to, if you had to pick one?

• 31:16Speaker 02

  I would say we, this is all consciousness. So like, if you take what is going on in a dream, like if you think of your dream, you have to manufacture fake eyeballs in your dream to see through. Why?

• 31:33Speaker 02

  And you're seeing light bouncing off of stuff in your dream and there are no photons present. And you can walk over and test everything that my, you were talking about proving something is real. You can do all of that in a dream. Every single thing that you do here on earth to prove that something's real, you could do it in a dream. So the ultimate uh, way to look at this, if I could take you on a quick thought experiment, 60 seconds. Uh, let's say there's a gumball machine in your dream. Let's say this gumball machine is like 14 feet away from you. And somehow I show up in your dream real quick and I'm like, Mayim, how far away would you say the gumball machine is? You're gonna say, oh, it's like 10, 15 feet, something like that. And then I say, okay, what is the gumball machine made out of?

• 32:17Speaker 02

  You say, well, glass, there's sugar in there, steel, there's some quarters inside of it. But then I tell you it's a dream. Then I show you that it's a dream. Then you're like, oh, okay, this is cool. I'm lucid dreaming right now. Then I ask the question again, how far is the gumball machine from you? There is no distance. Because you're creating it. And then I say, what is the gumball machine made out of? It's made out of consciousness.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  And so is your entire body, and so is the space between you and the gumball machine. It doesn't exist. It's all made out of consciousness, and you can still do everything in that dream, just like you would in this reality, to prove that it's all completely real.

• 32:55Mayim Bialik?

  I love this example, and also, you know, the nature of this example is a linguistic and semantic trap, because you're essentially asking me to put words to a concept that I know, right, is a separate dimension. Our brain is manufacturing things, right, to approximate some experience that's happening in that state. It's funny, a friend of mine is going through a rough time, and it's worse in the morning. He feels worse in the morning. He said, "Why is it worse in the morning?" And I said, "Because you've just left an altered state," right, where our consciousness goes, like, the reason that there's a Hebrew prayer that you say first thing in the morning is, "Thank you for giving me my soul back,"

• 33:38Mayim Bialik?

  because it leaves. It goes somewhere at night, right? It's drifting around. Everything is coming out of that state in the morning, you know?

• 33:47Speaker 02

  But just a thought experiment of, if you can see it in a dream, the distance that we perceive, like, if there is no distance in a dream, and then we come up one level from that, that might explain quantum entanglement, that distance might not exist. Who knows? But I don't entertain any of those, but if I had to pick one, that would be the one I'd pick.

• 34:11Mayim Bialik?

  And also, just since you are a neuroscientist, as it were, the research on NDEs and DMT is fascinating, because they're doing kind of a quantitative analysis, and a qualitative analysis, I guess, of kind of the overlap and that kind of Venn diagram. There's also an incredible case study of an individual who had an NDE and also had experienced DMT. So him, and it's a, you know, these are clinical papers in legitimate journals, so there's incredible research also for anyone who's listening and wants to understand the modeling that we can do of DMT, and some of that overlap with near-death experience is really, really fascinating.

• 34:51Jonathan Cohen?

  Chase, the other thing that you've done that pairs very interestingly with your exploration in consciousness, DMT, is that you've spent an enormous amount of time exploring ancient texts. Give us an idea of the insight derived from trying to map what was shown by these ancient texts that were written thousands of years apart, often with no way of interacting. Are there similarities? Are there codes maybe similar to the DMT, but are trying to give people insight or clues on how to come out of some of the traps that we find ourselves in today?

• 35:31Speaker 02

  The first was, I think we took, I don't know, several hundred of these ancient texts in different languages. So we kind of put this all into an AI. And my first question was, what's the most repeated phrase in all ancient texts? Mayan Popol Vuh, the Egyptian stuff, the Yoga Sutras, the Vedic texts, the Bhagavad Gita, the Upanishads, which is a huge one, a very influential one. The most repeated phrase in every single ancient text is "do not fear."

• 36:06Mayim Bialik?

  Can you say more? "Do not fear," is it always the same reason? I know in my tradition, it's "do not fear because God is with you," meaning you're never alone. "Don't I leave a loira." What are sacred texts trying to tell us about fear in general, besides "don't have it"?

• 36:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, in the Christian and I think Jewish Bible, in the Torah, and even in the ancient Christian, which used to be actually a Hebrew book, it's called the Septuagint, even in the Septuagint, it says "do not fear" over 300 times. And it's not always "for I am with you." And in the King James Bible, it says "do not fear" 365 times. But I think what it's saying is, and we're going to get into some Alan Watts territory here, but... I think what it's really saying is like you're afraid of nothing. Like you're afraid of something that is meaningless.

• 37:06Speaker 02

  And it's not that big of a deal. Like there's stuff going on that after your little, your little super important animal body is dead, then you're gonna, it's consciousness is still gonna be there. Like something like that is consciousness is gonna be eternal. But the coolest thing was that we went through it another time. And this is not in that YouTube video that I made about the ancient texts. And, and I said, find every time that a person asked God, the universe, the heavens, fill in the blank for help, and it worked. We, we found every prayer and every, you know, prayer plus every thesaurus word that you could throw in there for prayer. And every time it worked.

• 37:50Speaker 02

  And they said there are four elements and that it found that every single one of them in all the books had in common, just four things, which is massive. And we'll cover that on the next episode.

• 38:01Mayim Bialik?

  Stop it!

• 38:05Speaker 02

  So they said the first thing was an acknowledgement of the vastness of the universe and the smallness of the self. Okay, so that's piece one to the ultimate prayer formula hack, if you want to call it that. Step two was a

• 38:28Speaker 02

  direct ask for something that was not selfish.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  So the prayer had to be about something that was for the greater good, something to help others, something to help the, the all. If you want to go hermetic with it, let's, let me try to help everything. And number three was complete surrender of it actually happening.

• 38:51Speaker 02

  Which would go back to number one, you're the all, I'm not that important, I'm just asking for this one thing, I completely surrender the outcome, I'm not dependent on the outcome. And number four was repetition.

• 39:02Mayim Bialik?

  Because guess what, the human brain likes repetition.

• 39:06Speaker 02

  And maybe the big brain up there does too.

• 39:08Mayim Bialik?

  Like ritual is a way to get into rhythms, and also traditionally prayer had physical movement, so you're also somatically remembering that connection with source.

• 39:18Speaker 02

  I'm small, this is big, I'm asking for something that's for everybody, but I completely surrender the outcome, and then I'm gonna start, you know, I'm gonna do it again, and pray, pray that prayer again. And it's the opposite of the way that I think most people go about doing that kind of stuff. They're like, oh, I need to manifest a million dollars, I'm gonna go to that seminar that's gonna teach me how to manifest, and manifest with those essential oils and all that kind of stuff, which I'm a huge fan of essential oils. But I think it's the opposite of how we pray. It's typically, I am in this condition, I need this to help me, and all those like, oh, I'm gonna, if you can just do this one

• 39:59Speaker 02

  thing for me, I'll never eat salt again, or I'll never, or all of this, like crazy promises that, like the gambling, those are called gambling. And the way, the way that AI defined it, I have this, kind of a specialized AI that is made for researching text, it defined it as, the, the modern prayer is called the vending machine model of prayer, which I thought was such an amazing name. Like it treated prayer like a vending machine. But those are the four things. And I think it was, it's simple, it can fit on a post-it note, but I think it's deep, and it's, it's really profound. Because every time the AI spat this out, I was like, show me every single reference, give me the page number, I don't want you

• 40:43Speaker 02

  to hallucinate any of this. So we had to kind of check it. Which we did, and it was accurate.

• 40:49Mayim Bialik?

  That's amazing. I actually call it, funnily enough, I call it the gumball machine model that a lot of people have of God, that if I put in my quarter, I will get the gumball that I want, and it will be delicious. And that's actually not, at least it's not the way my God operates. So it's just a funny, a funny gumball moment, which some people would say is proof that like, we're all connected and consciousness exists.

• 41:12Speaker 02

  You put your quarter in and get a Werther's Original instead.

• 41:15Mayim Bialik?

  That's, it blows your mind. Chase Hughes, I, I'm so glad that, that you were here with us and that Jonathan introduced you to me. I apologize for not knowing all the incredible things you do, but I'm trying to catch up. Where can people find out more about NCI? Like, where would you like people to go to find out about all things you?

• 41:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, just my YouTube channel. It's just my name. You can go to Chase Hughes Official is my YouTube channel, or nci.university is our website where we have all the training. And if you don't want to go into the spiritual stuff, I do a lot of crazy interrogation training and that kind of stuff as well, which we didn't talk about here, but.

• 41:56Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, there wasn't enough, it wasn't enough time to cover it all. Also, I have your behavioral table of elements pulled up, and I think I want it like tattooed on my entire back so that people can know what's happening all the time. There's so many incredible resources on your website, and just really such a pleasure to get to speak to you.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  Thanks. Likewise. Make sure the tattoo's not on the lower back. And, and send pics, Jonathan, after that.

• 42:23Mayim Bialik?

  Well, Jonathan, I hope you've enjoyed doing this podcast with me, because I now want a podcast with Chase Hughes.

• 42:29Speaker 02

  I think you'd be a great addition to the show.

• 42:31Mayim Bialik?

  I think I make too many jokes for him, but I really enjoyed talking to him. And I did that thing that I hate when people do to me, like, I don't know who you are. But I wasn't telling him that to be like, you're not that famous, because he's very, very famous. I just wanted him to know that I came in with no preconceived notions about who he was, or what we were going to be able to tackle. And there's so much more we didn't get to, which I do hope he'll give us an opportunity to speak with him again. But I just couldn't, I just couldn't help this road that, you know, we went down with him and just wanting to hear so much about it.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  Let's talk about some universal truths. Jesus, Luke 17:21, "The kingdom of God is within you." Rumi, from a different era.

• 43:14Jonathan Cohen?

  You are not a drop in the ocean, you are the entire ocean in a drop. Kabbalah, creation is one emanation divided only in appearance.

• 43:24Mayim Bialik?

  That's pretty good. It's like been a minute since you've recited Bible quotes to me.

• 43:28Jonathan Cohen?

  It's a new segment at the end of episodes. Stick around for the Bible quotes. Quantum physics, everything is one field fragmented only by perception.

• 43:39Mayim Bialik?

  I think we need a wheel. Like if I were to ask, if I were to ask the universe for a present, I'd like a wheel of all the different religions that exist or have existed. And I'm gonna spin it and whatever it lands on Jonathan, you're gonna give us a quote, inspirational quote. This notion, I think many of us, especially those of us who, you know, live in the modern world, believe in science, love numbers and, you know, words and all the things that we have. Many of us, I would say most of us, you know, believe that people who lived thousands of years ago did not have the knowledge that we have. They didn't have the information that we have.

• 44:19Mayim Bialik?

  And if they knew the things that we know, they'd be able to explain earthquakes and why things happen. And, you know, like, oh, that's very cute. It's very, I mean, it is. It's a little bit patronizing, right, to say that all of those indigenous cultures, right, they just didn't understand the things that we understand. And it's very sweet to read about the myths from, you know, ancient Greece and all these things, but that's not really real. And what these texts are saying is that no matter what you develop in thousands of years that makes you think you're in control, you're actually not. Because there is something much bigger that only, and this is not just me being hopeful,

• 45:04Mayim Bialik?

  people who lived without the distractions that we call modernity, inevitably were far more in touch with nature, with the seasons, and with a sense of...

• 45:23Mayim Bialik?

  I don't autonomy about their spiritual identity and connection to the universe. Like, how could you not be? They had a lot of time to pick berries and make baskets, right? They had a lot of time to to hunt and survive, but for there to be social circles where typically, you know, women and children would, you know, spend time together and that one dude who couldn't see because he was near sighted, they just didn't know. But that that's like, kind of how, you know, we were structured is to be in touch with the land and all the things that it brings forth. And, you know, I think of people like David Sinclair, and I think of all these like incredible people and longevity experts and all this stuff. And like, when you think about what we really need, it's a lot more of what Chase Hughes

• 46:08Mayim Bialik?

  is talking about that he was able to get in touch with, right? Feeling like you're part of something, like feeling loved.

• 46:14Jonathan Cohen?

  We had a lot more time and interdependence with the people around us. You needed everyone working together in order to survive. And so the bonds were strong. Now, the scariest part of what I heard today was the fracturing of society, creating people who truly don't believe they need one another.

• 46:34Mayim Bialik?

  Or they don't care about the impact they have. You know, I thought about the person driving, you know, erratically. I mean, this is just in my lifetime, you know, if someone, let's say, wants to cut you off, it used to be like, oh, that's weird. And there used to be a little bit of shame, like you could see they were kind of sneaking around. People now, at least in Los Angeles, seem to take tremendous pleasure in cutting you off and also like laughing in your face and giving you the finger. Like, that just happens, like, in LA. Am I right, people in the room who live in LA? It's like there's some, like, perverse performative, like, kick in the nuts that, like, I blame jackass culture.

• 47:12Jonathan Cohen?

  Well, I think there's a performative, like, mocking and laughing at people who have personal injury, hardship. We've glorified violence to the point where it it becomes comedic. And, you know, you don't like, I used to say to, when I was like, watching these movies, these violent movies, I'm like, if someone gets hit that many times in the head, like, they actually have permanent brain damage and they cannot just get up and get their gun and attack again.

• 47:39Mayim Bialik?

  You're just a laugh riot. I've watched those movies with you. You don't let anyone enjoy them.

• 47:44Jonathan Cohen?

  All right, one more quote. You get to say who it's from. "Unless a man dies to himself, he cannot live."

• 47:51Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, like Braveheart said, "Every man dies, not every man really lives." I'm picturing Mel Gibson.

• 47:58Jonathan Cohen?

  Oh, Braveheart? No, it's Jesus, but very close.

• 48:03Mayim Bialik?

  The bravest heart of all, some might say.

• 48:05Jonathan Cohen?

  For more quotes just like this, we'll put them on Substack. Check us out, My Ambialics Breakdown on Substack.

• 48:11Mayim Bialik?

  From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time.