What Does the iPhone Event Invitation Mean?

This week, Marques, Andrew, and David talk about everything from the new Hasselblad camera to the upcoming Apple event! First, they talk cameras for a bit before going over some final thoughts of the Pixel 10 phones. Then they try to figure out what the Apple event invite could be telling us before finally talking about Hollow Knight Silksong for a bit. It's a fun one! Links: Verge - Hasselblad X2D II B&H - Ricoh GR IV Team Cherry - Hollow Knight Silk Song trailer Music provided by Epidemic Sound Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Social: Waveform Threads: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Waveform Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waveformpodcast/?hl=en Hosts: Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Andrew Manganelli?

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, host Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring your fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting? And what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episodes and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from. But when that context is scattered across tools, threads, and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying blind. That's the problem that Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all these pieces together, from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more. So, nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  That's J-I-R-A dot com. I mean, the like, M11 had 64 gigs, and the M11P, they upped it to 256. Really?

• 1:28David Imel?

  There you go.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:30Andrew Manganelli?

  What are you saying about all the other days?

• 1:31Speaker 01

  Hell, yeah. You usually sound like kind of mid.

• 1:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Damn.

• 1:40Speaker 01

  Hey, what is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marquez.

• 1:45Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm Andrew.

• 1:46Speaker 01

  And I'm David. So, in this week's episode, we've got two new cameras that I'm not going to buy. I'm definitely not going to buy them. I don't need them. Apple invites also went out. Taylor Swift got engaged. And we've got some final thoughts on the Pixel 10s.

• 2:01Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm surprised you want to talk about the Taylor Swift engagement.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  It's just kind of one of the news stories of the week, you know? And I'm Ron Burgundy.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  It would be weird if we didn't. Andrew put in the script to see if Marquez would say it. It's just one of those things. It's in every company Slack. I promise.

• 2:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Didn't you say Verge did an article about which social media platform benefited the most?

• 2:23Speaker 01

  There was an Instagram post. That's where most people saw it. There was a Threads post. So the Fediverse got some love. There was no Twitter post. Well, she's probably not federated. Something to think about. Yeah. Yeah.

• 2:37Andrew Manganelli?

  But actually first.

• 2:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. First, actually.

• 2:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay. We, this got passed around our company Slack, and I guess was on the internet a little. I know David hasn't seen it yet. I'm not sure if everyone has, but apparently there's a French dub on one of our old videos, and it is

• 2:55Andrew Manganelli?

  bad, is the best way of putting it. Hilariously bad. Broken.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Ellis, did you hear it? Miles, you heard it, right? Okay. Can you play this clip? I can't. Okay. This is Miles and David are hearing this for the first time.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 3:26Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know. This is like a three-year-old video.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  What I thought that sounded like. So what happens is like years ago, I mean, this is still true, but when we get a video dubbed in a different language, it is a downloadable audio track that we download and then upload for each language. So they might have four or five languages per video, and then we upload them. Yeah. And then, you know, it is what it is. This is a much older video from, from years ago that we like retroactively

• 3:52Andrew Manganelli?

  That's what I think it was.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  decided to get dubbed.

• 3:55Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it's three years old, and I believe it was a company we were testing in the past. We did some older videos to test it on. Missed that completely. It's not the company we use anymore. This is actually a human dub, not an AI one. So I think it's a human and somehow the microphone he was using or how they exported it is just, I can't even begin to describe how it could potentially get to that point.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  It kind of seems on purpose. Like if I was a human and I was like, I wonder if anybody's really listening to these, I would just make up French sounds and I would have the microphone as far into my mouth as possible.

• 4:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Gaming headset during an earthquake.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:33David Imel?

  Have you seen the top comment?

• 4:35Andrew Manganelli?

  I have not.

• 4:36David Imel?

  It just says, "On cap and a blast."

• 4:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know how people found this, but eventually people did find this. And yeah, we, we took it down because obviously it's not a good dub. But yeah, that was, uh, sorry about that, France.

• 4:49Andrew Manganelli?

  But also that was hilarious.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  But that was pretty funny. Wow. Okay.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  First camera that I'm not gonna buy. I'm not gonna buy it. I don't need it. I don't, I definitely don't need it. Cue the SpongeBob meme. Cause yeah, that one ends with, I need it. But it's the Hasselblad X2D Mark II. So I've reviewed one or two of these X, X1D and X2D Hasselblads in the past. Yeah. I really like them. I obviously don't need them, but they're just one of those things where like, you know how, you know, you guys shoot film, Tim shoots film, you guys kind of will go out and like leisurely shoot a couple of things just because it's a hobby that you have. That was me when I had the X1D. I was just like, I, these are not photos that I need. I'm not like going on vacation or taking photos of, of pets and kids. It's just like, I just wanna take some pictures.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  And the X1D was awesome for that. And it was notably slow, clunky, big, heavy, like had lots of downsides. But the process and the files that came out of it were very satisfying.

• 5:55Andrew Manganelli?

  The build qua, the build quality on these cameras is just like every camera you get, there's some part that like, rattles or like sounds collant of hollowy plastic. I mean, you've used a lot of really nice ones. So I'm sure you've used plenty of other ones that aren't like that. Man. Nothing about this is like.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  They are the best built.

• 6:14Speaker 03

  It's really cool that they're able to put all of that build quality into like such an economical, cheap package, right?

• 6:21Andrew Manganelli?

  It's still impressive. Look, at 7,000.

• 6:24Speaker 03

  Just have a thousand?

• 6:25Andrew Manganelli?

  It's still crazy.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  It's cheaper than the last one. Yeah, this is the thing. In the past, like I did enjoy using these very impractical, clunky, heavy cameras. And they were super expensive. It would be like seven or eight grand for just the body. And then another 35, 4,500 for each lens. And they'd be primes. So you'd need two or three lenses. And it was obviously just like a horribly expensive hobby that I should not have gotten into, but I did. Fast forward to a couple of generations later, X1D, then X1D Mark II, X2D. This one, it's still medium format, still 100 megapixels. It's up to 15.3 stops of dynamic range. They will take true HDR images.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  It also has a tilting OLED EVF, which gets up to like 1900 nits or something. It's like a really, really nice screen and

• 7:12Andrew Manganelli?

  I thought it was

• 7:13David Imel?

  Sorry, the screen, right?

• 7:14Speaker 01

  The screen.

• 7:14Andrew Manganelli?

  I thought it was 3000 nits.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Either way, it's like, it's a great responsive touchscreen, which they've done really well in the past.

• 7:20David Imel?

  Yep.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  Uh, has continuous autofocus. I'm not so sure about the light R. I want to watch some reviews, but it has light R for autofocus. And it has 10 stop, five axis in-body image stabilization.

• 7:31David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  So

• 7:32David Imel?

  Which is ridiculous.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  That is

• 7:34David Imel?

  Especially on a medium format sensor.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  It's hard to explain how awesome that is, especially for shooting like this is, this is a slow camera, but you still don't want to have to put it on a tripod every single time. Like being able to shoot handheld is a really big deal.

• 7:48David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  And 10 stops of IBIS?

• 7:52David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  Is pretty unheard of in any camera. I haven't seen that in like R5 level cameras, let alone like a medium format.

• 7:58David Imel?

  No, it's, it's ridiculous. I, um, one of my friends, Casey Kavanaugh GX Ace on YouTube, sent me a photo. 3.6 second handheld photo at night and it was sharp as heck and like

• 8:09Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 8:10David Imel?

  That on a medium format sensor, that's 100 megapixels is really crazy, right? Like you usually do not see that kind of tech in this kind of camera and they, they also added the light R autofocus, which is really awesome because their autofocus has been bad traditionally. And they lowered the price. It's like, it's kind of nuts. Um, 10 stops of IBIS though, you can do like, you can do water on a waterfall being all like silky and smooth and stuff. Traditionally, like the bigger the sensor size you go, the more you have to shoot it like film. Because it's going to be, it's going to have worse stabilization. It's going to have, you know, if it's higher resolution, then you see micro shake more. All this stuff, but they kind of like fixed all of these problems in this camera.

• 8:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Uh, yeah. I know very little about cameras, but three seconds handheld.

• 8:55David Imel?

  Yeah, three and a half seconds.

• 8:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Makes no sense.

• 8:57David Imel?

  That's crazy.

• 8:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Like that is like I was, there's times where I have a camera. I'm like, damn, I wish I could go to like one over 30 right now handheld and like

• 9:04David Imel?

  Yeah, 10 seconds kind of pushing it and you're like, wow.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  A whole second, but three seconds is insane.

• 9:10David Imel?

  Also, the true HDR is very interesting, uh, cause this is the first camera to have true HDR. We've seen Been like HDR in cameras before, but the way that that's done it is more of just the way that smartphones have generally done it where they do image stacking. And they kind of like crush the tone curve to make it all a mid tone. This one just it elevates the peak, like the highlights. So that they get brighter, they get physically brighter and the the screen on the back of this camera is HDR compatible. So when you take those images, you can see the detail in that, but it's brighter. And if you put it on a compatible screen like a MacBook Pro. You'll be able to actually see all that information.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:44David Imel?

  Which is cool because traditionally like that kind of HDR has been very limited to smartphones. And usually if you're taking photos like that on your smartphone, you don't want to view them on your computer and just like kind of. It just looks weird having it be that bright and everything. And especially this kind of camera being in a RAW file. You can manipulate the shadows so that they're not like jacked up, but you can still see a little bit of detail, but it's not just a mid tone.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:08David Imel?

  Anyway, it's very good.

• 10:10Speaker 01

  Not clicking the buy button as you're talking.

• 10:12David Imel?

  I closed the tab. I closed the B and H tab.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  You also are right 1400 nits on the screen.

• 10:17David Imel?

  Yeah. And also another one I'd bring up, this camera is cheaper than the last generation.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  By like 800.

• 10:23David Imel?

  By like 800 bucks, which is crazy because every other camera company right now is raising the prices of their camera. Fujifilm raised the prices of all of their cameras once and the rumor is they're going to do it again. This is all because of tariffs. And I think because DJI owns Hassablon. So I think what they're doing is that they're trying to undercut the market, especially the medium format market. Because Fujifilm had to raise the price of their GFX cameras, which have traditionally been the like affordable medium format.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:52David Imel?

  By quite a bit to the point where this is cheaper than Fujifilm's GFX 100 Mark II. Which is kind of unbelievable because the build quality of this is better. It's got LightR now.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  Has a terabyte of built in.

• 11:07David Imel?

  Terabyte of built in storage. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. The lens is very expensive. It's $4,600 just for the new lens.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  The lens is interesting though.

• 11:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, the lens is super expensive. It's a 35 to 100, but on a medium format, it's like roughly the equivalent of a 24 to 70. And it's F28 to F4. So F28 at medium format.

• 11:26David Imel?

  Is very shallow.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  Pretty sick. You're not gonna ever, yeah, you're probably not gonna shoot at 28. They also call it compact. That part is kinda funny.

• 11:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Which is why I put a picture right after that part.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:37David Imel?

  Yeah, we'll say they reached out to me about this camera many, many months ago, like in March.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:43David Imel?

  And I signed an NDA about it. And then they said, "We'd love to get into your hands. And in exchange, we will give you the camera, in exchange for the review, we will give you the camera." And then I said, "I don't do that." And then they ghosted me. So that's the second time Hasselblad's done that to me. Uh, which sucks. But, you know, um, the sad part about that is that from everything I've seen from people that I do very much trust, everything about this camera is incredible.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  It seems to be. I mean, I've looked at, I was just scrolling through like headlines. I haven't watched any of the videos yet, but that, just the headlines for people's reviews of like, "This is peak medium format." Like Hasselblad finally did it. It, it's a good deal at this price. Like all these amazing headlines. So it seems like objectively a pretty great camera.

• 12:26David Imel?

  I mean, again, like the, the Fuji GFX 100 Mark II, I still really like that, that camera, but it is quite a bit slower than this now. This has better, uh, image stabilization. It has the HDR, all of these things. And now it's cheaper. Which is wild. Like when the rest of the entire camera market is being jacked up in price, the fact that they can make this even lower, lower prices is wild. So.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  Well, it's too bad Hasselblad, because it's not gonna work on me. I'm not gonna buy one.

• 12:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Just checking. I'll check for the rest of the episode.

• 12:53Speaker 01

  Don't.

• 12:54Andrew Manganelli?

  When he's bases out later, he's definitely buying.

• 12:56Speaker 03

  Oh, Mark has that package just came. It's on your desk right now.

• 12:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:59David Imel?

  I actually did open the B&H tab just to see. Uh, it ships mid-September.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  The sample photos from this camera looks so good.

• 13:05David Imel?

  The sample photos, if you, if you're unconvincing or just listening to us talk about an amazing camera and build quality and blah, blah, like, that's all, you know, maybe it doesn't speak to you. Maybe you're not a big photographer. But check out these sample images.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:18David Imel?

  And tell me you don't wish you could participate in an experience that has that sort of output.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's sick.

• 13:25Speaker 04

  If you bought this camera, what do you think your shutter count would be on it after like a year of ownership?

• 13:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Did we mention Miles was on the podcast?

• 13:32David Imel?

  Oh, hey. Yeah.

• 13:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Miles is on the podcast.

• 13:35David Imel?

  Adam's sick again. That's a really good question. Um, I think my shutter count would be something like, it would be under a thousand for sure. Total? It would be under a thousand photos.

• 13:45Andrew Manganelli?

  How many is that per picture?

• 13:46David Imel?

  Until, until you just put it on the shelf? No, I would, I would love it and I would, I mean, I'm not gonna buy it, but if I did, I would love it and use it and I would probably use it much more in the first few months of just like walking around with an excuse to just like shoot street photography or like shoot skylines or whatever. And then I would just occasionally bring it to like random events.

• 14:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Does that mean that's $74 a photo?

• 14:09David Imel?

  Feels about right.

• 14:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Right? Or am I, no, I'm right in that, right?

• 14:13David Imel?

  That's about how much I pay for a thousand.

• 14:14Andrew Manganelli?

  A thousand photos.

• 14:15David Imel?

  For my film, $700. So it'd be $7 a photo. Not too far off from what I pay for my film mark. $7 a photo.

• 14:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Still not bad.

• 14:23David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 14:24Andrew Manganelli?

  That's not bad.

• 14:24David Imel?

  Film models.

• 14:25Andrew Manganelli?

  You're losing money if you don't.

• 14:27David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah. You don't understand scale. Also, yeah, the, the look is so, the medium format look on this is so insane, like the micro contrast. Hassablot has this special color profile that they call like Hassablot True Color that they've had for like a really long time. And they don't do, they don't do like the film simulations like all the other companies do, but they just have the one mode and it's like Hassablot True Color, whatever. Why is it top seller? Because people are buying it, dude. Really? Oh, yeah.

• 14:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, you better buy that fast.

• 14:57David Imel?

  You're saying if I don't buy it now, it's gonna get delayed or something like that? That's not what I said, Marcus. Is that what you're saying? I did not say that. I said a lot of people are buying it.

• 15:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Hmm.

• 15:05David Imel?

  Listen. Anyway, their True Color thing looks really, really good and the micro contrast is made, everything about it is great.

• 15:11Speaker 03

  On Hassablot's website, it's sold out.

• 15:12David Imel?

  Oh, I mean.

• 15:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, he's on B&H.

• 15:14David Imel?

  Man, so I guess I probably should go to B&H. Anyway, I just wish they would let me review this without, um, shilling for them.

• 15:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, that's why you have to join the rest of us in bullying Marcus into buying it.

• 15:27David Imel?

  If any of us are able to get our hands on this camera somehow.

• 15:29Speaker 03

  It's sold out on B&H too.

• 15:30David Imel?

  No, it's not. No, it's not.

• 15:31Speaker 03

  I'm on B&H right now.

• 15:33David Imel?

  It's just not in stock yet. It's not in stock yet.

• 15:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, that's why I said it's shipping in September.

• 15:36David Imel?

  It got announced yesterday. It's like not out.

• 15:37Speaker 03

  Uh, I mean, you have to request a stock alert, which I feel like that you don't normally put on the pre.

• 15:43David Imel?

  You can literally preorder it and they'll ship it when it's ready. Or B&H just put top seller because they want people to buy it. Yeah, I'm looking at Marquez's computer.

• 15:53Speaker 04

  He has it in his cart. He has the lens that costs more than my R5 Mark II in his cart.

• 15:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, you?

• 16:00Speaker 01

  I haven't done anything about it yet. I'm just saying, like, if you really, really wanted to review this camera, or maybe even if, like, we wanted to see what some of those photos look like, and maybe, like, had an event in mid-September that we wanted to take it to.

• 16:12David Imel?

  Would we have it by then?

• 16:13Andrew Manganelli?

  No.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  I don't know. Well, there won't only be one way to find out.

• 16:16David Imel?

  Fair enough. Speaking of cameras, I guess, I would have liked a better segue from that. But speaking of a camera that did increase the price, the Ricoh GR4 got announced a while ago and is officially coming out.

• 16:33David Imel?

  Here's the lore behind the Ricoh series. Okay?

• 16:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:36David Imel?

  So, if you remember the Fujifilm X100V, it was the camera that blew the heck up on TikTok.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:43David Imel?

  Two years after it got released, ironically. And then, when the X106 came out, that camera has been practically impossible to get constantly. People went on social media with it because they knew that the X100V was popular, so they thought, oh, if I post photos with the X106 on social media, I'll get a lot of engagement. And then, there's always a culture and a counterculture, right? So, the culture at the time was, wow, look at my X100 photos. And then, a counterculture always pops up with the, like, here's the awesome alternative to the thing that's popular.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  True.

• 17:14David Imel?

  So, the Ricoh GR3 became the counterculture. The Ricoh GR3 is even smaller than the X100.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:21David Imel?

  It is extremely pocketable, but it has a lot of compromises. Like, it doesn't have an electronic viewfinder, which is really hard for me, because I like viewfinders. It does not have a tiltable screen on the back. The screen on the back is really crappy and pretty low resolution. But it's one of those cameras that's, like, it's truly a pocketable camera. Like, it's so thin and so small that it can fit in your pocket, and the image quality, once you pull it off of the camera and put it on the computer, is really, really good.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  I'm looking at it, by the way, on B&H. Also says top seller. But lots of pictures of it being in pockets.

• 17:56David Imel?

  Yeah, so the GR3 became impossible to get and then they came out with the high diffusion filter model that we talked about a few weeks ago.

• 18:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Right, the grease on the lens model.

• 18:05David Imel?

  Yeah, grease on the lens model, the on the lens model. Uh, and that was very popular. Now they finally are announcing the GR4 and they jacked up the price by a lot. Um, it is now $1,500. I had this whole thing I wanted to talk about with cameras where like, we talked about the Sony camera that came out, the, the point and shoot Sony that came out a few weeks ago. And that camera's like $5,300. And everyone feels very shocked by the prices of these new things like, oh, these cameras are being so, those companies are being so greedy. When in reality, I think that it's just the new, the new normal for tariffs on cameras because all cameras have parts that are made in a lot of countries that are being heavily tariffed.

• 18:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Yep.

• 18:43David Imel?

  Um, and I think that that's probably a combination of why the GR4 is so expensive. And that's why it's so surprising that the Hasselblad is cheaper. I'm like, how did they lower the price?

• 18:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 18:55David Imel?

  Yeah, well.

• 18:55Andrew Manganelli?

  It's impressive.

• 18:56David Imel?

  Yeah, they're assembled in Sweden, the Hasselblad cameras, so I assume Sweden's not tariffed as hard as other countries, but.

• 19:01Speaker 04

  What does GR stand for?

• 19:04Speaker 03

  Oh, uh, Gazoo Racing.

• 19:07David Imel?

  Next.

• 19:07Speaker 04

  That's what I was looking for.

• 19:08David Imel?

  Um, I don't, I don't actually knew. Do you know?

• 19:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, it says the essential values of the GR series.

• 19:15David Imel?

  It's probably like.

• 19:17Andrew Manganelli?

  I want this.

• 19:18David Imel?

  You should get one. I mean, they're great, they're great. The new one though, $1,500.

• 19:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I know, I was looking up used GR3s and the HDF version and I was also looking up used like X100Vs. And then I was also looking up to like this, a little different, but like the Sony A7C is like super pocketable also. Like I like these pocketable.

• 19:38David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 19:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Take them along with me and like a little faster. So if I'm taking pictures of Lane or something, it's like, these seem really fun.

• 19:44David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 19:45Speaker 04

  Canon R50V, it's like the non-EVA version of the R50.

• 19:50David Imel?

  Non-EVA?

• 19:51Speaker 04

  $750.

• 19:53David Imel?

  That's pretty good.

• 19:54Speaker 04

  Pretty good.

• 19:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 19:54Speaker 04

  Pretty good.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Other lenses that are like, cause you got, yeah, I got like a tiny pancake lens to match the Ricoh.

• 20:00David Imel?

  Yeah. Yeah, the GR4 has a 26 megapixel APS-C sensor, which is the same resolution as last time. Redesigned lens with an F2.8 aperture, new autofocus and 53 gigs of built-in storage. So it's really not that different from the GR3.

• 20:19David Imel?

  I'm not, I think they just kind of made it because there was insane demand for this kind of thing. So.

• 20:25Andrew Manganelli?

  To say it has new five axis shake reduction that compensates for six stops of camera shake.

• 20:29David Imel?

  That's nice.

• 20:30Andrew Manganelli?

  So up from three axis last time, but it doesn't have many stops.

• 20:34David Imel?

  Yeah, it's pretty good.

• 20:34Andrew Manganelli?

  And for something that's quick, pocketable and like you're probably never putting this on a tripod.

• 20:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:41Andrew Manganelli?

  That sounds pretty solid.

• 20:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Six hundred dollars solid? I don't know about that.

• 20:44David Imel?

  Six hundred dollar price increase? Yeah, that's a lot. Fifteen hundred dollars for a pocket camera is pretty insane. But here we are. Here we are. I'm having like visions of making way more Instagram content if I had one of these cameras.

• 21:00Speaker 04

  So I actually saw these cameras in person for the first time a couple of weeks ago because I didn't know they existed and I was at B and H with some friends. And the build quality is, I don't know.

• 21:11Andrew Manganelli?

  It doesn't look like it has a good build quality. Like, to be honest, like it looks kind of like, it looks like a toy trying to look like a nice build quality.

• 21:22Speaker 04

  Is that the appeal?

• 21:23Andrew Manganelli?

  No, I, I assume that's just like the sacrifice you make when, before it was cheaper.

• 21:29David Imel?

  Yeah, we have developed this spectrum of like cameras that people want. It's like you get the Hasselblad if you're like a fine art photographer, right? And then now people are buying, uh, Digicams, which is like the old two thousands point and shoots that they're buying because it kind of gives the like quality of like thirty five millimeter film in a way, but it's free. And you can find it at the thrift store for five dollars sometimes. Now the ones that people were finding at the thrift store for five dollars, like three hundred bucks on eBay.

• 21:56Speaker 04

  Supply and demand, baby.

• 21:57David Imel?

  But this is sort of in between where it's like, it's not a bazillion dollars, but it's not, it's not five dollars. And it's like good image quality, but it's not fine art photography. So, yeah, but it's pocketable. Anyway, fun to have some new camera stuff in the world.

• 22:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, I could not find what GR actually stands for with, but I did find a hilarious thread from 2017 on DP Review where someone like poses this question. They're like, what does the GR stand for in Rico GR? And someone says Gestalt Riesen, which is German Gestalt is sort of means the sum greater than the sum of its parts. It's not an exact translation, but that's sort of like the best one I can give you. And then Riesen is German for like cute, charming, beautiful. And then someone else replied, like, I highly doubt that's what GR stands for, considering that this is a Japanese company, like why would they choose a German acronym? And then a third guy hops in and it's like, actually, it's

• 22:54Speaker 03

  not that crazy. Like lots of like, there's lots of German influence in Japanese technology, especially in like the camera sector and like lists all these reasons why it might be possible. And then the original guy who said Gestalt Riesen was like, no, I made that up.

• 23:07David Imel?

  Source, I made it up. And then ChatGPT was like, source, this is true. ChatGPT says great resource, which I'm likely to believe, but also I'm not because of ChatGPT.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  So my ChatGPT said great Rico.

• 23:22Speaker 04

  That is also in this forum. So it might actually be pulling from probably.

• 23:26David Imel?

  The Rico, great Rico.

• 23:28Speaker 03

  Some people are saying grand Rico too, like some like grand Seiko is like the fancy line of Sekos.

• 23:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, speaking of cameras, again.

• 23:38David Imel?

  Nice. Yeah.

• 23:41David Imel?

  No, we actually do have one more to talk about.

• 23:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Have you guys ever heard of phone companies using fake images to hype their phone cameras?

• 23:48David Imel?

  You mean every single launch that has ever happened?

• 23:50Speaker 01

  You mean how like a company will go, look at these images, they were shot on our phone and then they weren't?

• 23:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I know it's hard to believe.

• 23:58David Imel?

  Lie on the internet?

• 24:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, we have our newest installment of the most iconic duo of that.

• 24:05David Imel?

  Nice.

• 24:06Andrew Manganelli?

  The Nothing Phone 3 demo. So apparently there are Nothing Phone 3 demo units. So these are, I'm assuming demos at stores that people use before they and in those demo units, there is a page on them that says, here's what our community has captured with the phone three and then lists five pictures. Shocking surprise. All of those five pictures are stock photos that Nothing bought from a licensing website. And they found out because an anonymous source reached out to Android Authority first, I think, saying that was her picture showing the picture. And then, since then, they've contacted some of the other photographers and they are not. One was even shooting on a Fuji X2, XH2, which is like a $3,000 camera.

• 24:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, this seems like the easiest rabbit hole to get caught going down. Like, someone just reversed Google image searches, the ones from your sample photos and goes, oh, this has existed online for three years. And then it's just on a licensing website.

• 25:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, all of these photos were taken before the Nothing Phone 3 was announced. They were all from two years ago.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. Notably, an employee from Nothing, Akis, has

• 25:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Co-founder.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Co-founder, has explained his side of the story, basically, which is just that these were placeholder images that they needed to submit four months before launch, and they just forgot to replace them. I don't know why you would go to a licensing website and pay for photos taken professionally as placeholders. I don't know. I don't work for you. I don't, that's not a choice that I would make personally. Maybe just use other Nothing Phone images or something else. But the placeholders never got replaced. And oops, now people saw those images.

• 25:53Speaker 03

  You know, in the video game industry, when you need a placeholder thing, you usually make it as obvious as possible to placeholder. Like, it'll be neon purple and say something like, "Missing texture."

• 26:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:04Speaker 03

  So you'd think they would do something.

• 26:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Seenet did something like this once where it was like a phone review. And I guess to show their camera people what kind of footage they wanted of the phone, they put Marques's footage in it.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:17Andrew Manganelli?

  And then published the video. I thought it was Seenet.

• 26:19Speaker 01

  It probably was, yeah.

• 26:20Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't want to throw them under the bus if it wasn't, but.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. But it was kind of weird. Going to my subbox and starting to watch the review of a phone, and then it cuts to a hand holding a phone in the studio. I'm like, I think, I think that that's my hand.

• 26:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  And now that I'm watching this, yeah, that's my footage. And then I emailed them, and they're like, oh, it was a placeholder we wanted to give to our editors to replace later. Crazy, crazy situation, but anyway.

• 26:46Andrew Manganelli?

  I just thought it was also funny that his response was, you know, he said, new teams are involved. There's no clear reason to use this. This is a response to why don't you just use old nothing photos? So at least if you get caught, it was like something worse and not seeming as deceiving.

• 27:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, because they want to appear better.

• 27:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Because they want to appear better. And he also, in his original tweet, was like, everyone should post their nothing photos in here. And he then goes on to say, as you can see from the comments section, photos captured with phone three are far more striking than those stock images, which is.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Which you bought.

• 27:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Which you you bought and are also taken by professionals with professional cameras. So like, it can be a good phone. You don't gotta pretend that your nothing phone is better than a Fuji X2, XH2. I don't even know what kind of.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  XH2, yeah.

• 27:32Speaker 03

  Are we, are we in the era finally where there's, there's no point in posting smartphone sample images and being like, because it's, I feel like we sort of go through this every year with the smartphone camera test where it's like,

• 27:46Speaker 03

  the differences are like so subtle. I guess what I'm trying to ask is, do you think we're entering a point where this is not actually a feature differentiator between flagship smartphones?

• 27:58Speaker 01

  I do.

• 27:59Speaker 03

  Obviously, there's going to be things like, like the Samsung has a big zoom lens that other phones don't have. Or like the iPhone has the camera button. Like there are these little tiny sort of things. But as far as image quality goes, like not usability, but like image quality, are we, are we past this?

• 28:14Speaker 01

  So I think it's fair. I think there's two types of buyers. I think for a lot of buyers, we are past this. I think they're all pretty good. And I think a lot of them just kind of go, oh yeah, it's an expensive one. So it'll take good pictures. I think there is another more discerning buyer who still finds massive differences between a lot of these smartphone cameras. If, if you're looking to evaluate that sort of thing, you're like, you can tell a Samsung picture versus an iPhone picture versus a pixel picture still to this day. And we'll talk more about the pixel and its camera a little bit later, but if you watch my review.

• 28:46David Imel?

  It's like kind of a big difference from some of the like, if you spend more on it on a phone to have a better camera, you would hope that it would have a specifically better camera and it's kind of lacking in some of those ways. So I think there is a buyer that does still see a difference.

• 29:01Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it is. I think the blind smartphone challenge proved that most people don't give a damn. But I think when you're the person spending seven, eight, nine, a thousand dollars on a phone, you want to have every little thing that you really like to like tell yourself it was worth paying for that.

• 29:17David Imel?

  I sort of agree with you, Ellis, in that, in that sort of thought process because like we've reached the point where, I don't know, nobody's, very few people are trying to use their phone as professional cameras, but they still care about the image quality. But it used to be that there were bigger gaps between the quality. So people would talk about the quality all the time. And now it's sort of just one of those things that's like, you're, most people just buy the new version of the phone they've always had. And so the people that maybe are thinking of getting something else, or you know, they want to justify their purchase, they're going to say they care about those things. Do they actually? I don't know.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  And it's also, and this is like a rabbit hole, we could go down forever, but like smartphone companies in an attempt to explain that the camera quality of their phone is better, will always reference like, it's good enough for professional. See, this professional uses it to do professional photo shoots. And even though that's usually not how professionals shoot, that is usually a pretty convincing argument for people.

• 30:14David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  But it also kind of feels like sports equipment where it's like, okay.

• 30:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  They're professionals. They can probably get a good picture out of anything.

• 30:23David Imel?

  Right, right.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  And between you and I, like, it doesn't matter what golf clubs I use, I'm never going to beat Tiger. I should just get better at the thing instead of using better equipment.

• 30:32David Imel?

  Yes.

• 30:32Speaker 03

  Also, I, I would make the argument that in most creative fields, like what differentiate, what makes gear truly professional gear is not necessarily like the total quality of media output. Like obviously that's important, but it's features that are really specific to doing it as a job. You know what I mean? Like

• 30:52David Imel?

  Redundancy.

• 30:53Speaker 03

  Redundancy or like a great example is like, I know lots of people that do sports photography that specifically shoot on Sony for no reason other than the menus are quick and customizable and the burst mode goes crazy. You know what I mean?

• 31:10Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 31:11David Imel?

  Crazy burst.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  And Sony's autofocus is very fast.

• 31:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. But it's like, it has nothing to do with, oh, like, I'm sure if they shot it on a Canon or a Nikon, they would not pull the pictures side by side and be like, ah, these Sony colors, man, they're so much better. No, they're going like, I can shoot 10 million photos with one burst.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, job specific.

• 31:30Speaker 03

  And that will make my job easier. And I think, so whenever they make the argument like, this is good enough for professionals. It's like, no, it's not. It just.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  It's not what a professional would use over anything else.

• 31:40Speaker 03

  Even if it did look as good. And the same is true with audio gear and everything.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  The statement, the choice of professionals would have a lot more weight than it's good enough for professionals.

• 31:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. The audio interface I have on my desk, I don't use it because it sounds significantly better than other audio interfaces. I use it because it has two headphone jacks on the front and that saved me a lot of time, you know? Like, and that's what makes it good for professionals, not the amazing converters in it or whatever.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  Theoretically, smartphone companies should use pictures of everyday people taking amazing pictures of their kids and pets. And sometimes they do.

• 32:17David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  But a lot of times when you go to like the eight, nine thousand, $1,200 phones, they start to go, oh, all right, what's the differentiator here?

• 32:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, it's the eyelashes on the leopard.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, like the resolution is amazing. And it's like, well, I'm still going to be taking pictures of my kids and pets.

• 32:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Which is why like this nothing thing really isn't that giant of a deal because like every single camera manufacturer company ever, when they post the pictures are unobtainable images to all of the people buying it because of the lighting and whatever. So this is just extra funny because it's literally not.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  Have you seen, have you ever watched an Apple keynote and looked at the photos that they share of like shot on iPhone? They're like in the middle of a desert with like perfect sunlight and not a cloud in the sky and like this beautiful even lighting. You're like, I've never been in a place like that. I've never taken a photo like that.

• 33:08David Imel?

  But you know what I appreciate about those photos? They still have the distinctive like iPhone look where the shadows are too jacked up and you can see that it artificially lighten their face like you can tell it's an iPhone. It's like, okay, yeah, you went to a really nice environment. You gave it to a competent photographer and this is a pretty acceptable, like pretty good photo. But I know that it's an iPhone picture.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it'll be like staged models with colorful clothing and like beautiful background. And you're like, oh, I can tell it's on a phone. That's a pretty good shot, though.

• 33:36David Imel?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  Like, alright, nicely done.

• 33:38David Imel?

  Exactly.

• 33:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Maybe these photos were taken on the Nothing 3. They're just on the Essential space on the Stock Photo website and they wanted to save them for later. So they took it with the Essential button, ripping it from.

• 33:52David Imel?

  They took a screenshot of the photo.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  They took the photo. Yeah, they stole the photo.

• 33:56Speaker 03

  What even is a photo? You know what I mean?

• 33:59David Imel?

  Don't even, we can't.

• 34:00Speaker 03

  How is, how is, how is AI, you know, changing the shadows different from just taking it on an entirely separate camera altogether, you know?

• 34:06Speaker 01

  This is the deepest rabbit hole there is.

• 34:09Speaker 03

  Can I hit the button?

• 34:10David Imel?

  Yeah, hit the button. Wait, what about? Oh, I was gonna reference the Sam Altman comment from two weeks ago.

• 34:15Andrew Manganelli?

  That's what I was thinking also.

• 34:16David Imel?

  Oh, well, on, on, so Cleo didn't interview with him on her show and she says, isn't it like, don't, are you worried about the fact that in like a couple of years, we're not gonna be able to tell like what was a historical accurate image? And his answer was, well, you know, your smartphone, when your smartphone takes a photo, like, is that really a picture?

• 34:37Andrew Manganelli?

  It processes.

• 34:37David Imel?

  And I was like, bro, that is the most bad faith statement you could possibly say.

• 34:43Speaker 01

  He used what as a photo.

• 34:44David Imel?

  He did, he did. And I'm like, that's not the same thing. Like, one is a, one is a relatively accurate representation of reality that doesn't try to comp, isn't made up.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Isn't inventing things.

• 34:57David Imel?

  Isn't invent, yeah, it's inventing like shadow detail, but it's like a representation. Anyway, we can go to trivia.

• 35:02Andrew Manganelli?

  It was a dumb response?

• 35:03David Imel?

  It was a dumb response.

• 35:04Speaker 03

  Oh, my god. We didn't, yeah.

• 35:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Press the trivia button again?

• 35:07Speaker 03

  No, no, we already played the music three times. I can just jump into it. Guys, this first question is about Hasselblad. Big Hassel, big blot, big Hassel, bigger blot, if you know what I mean. Um, guys, Hassel, two, yeah, two Hassel, two Hassel, two blot.

• 35:24Speaker 01

  You could say we're all Hasselbaddies today.

• 35:26Speaker 03

  Hmm. I like two Hassel, two blot, Gothenburg drift better because Hasselblad was founded in Gothenburg, Sweden in 1841.

• 35:37Speaker 03

  Since then,

• 35:38Speaker 01

  It's old.

• 35:39Speaker 03

  What is the farthest place from Gothenburg, Sweden, that a Hasselblad camera has ever taken a picture?

• 35:49David Imel?

  You told me I would just know this.

• 35:51Speaker 03

  You would just know this.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  Well, I have an immediate guess. Yeah, me too.

• 35:54Speaker 03

  The farthest place from Gothenburg.

• 35:57Speaker 01

  Wait, let's all say our immediate guess.

• 35:58David Imel?

  No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're right. I do that.

• 36:01Speaker 03

  No, no, no.

• 36:02Speaker 01

  Okay. Okay. Yeah. All right, well, we'll think about this. Answers will be at the end like usual. We'll be right back.

• 36:21Speaker 01

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• 38:31Speaker 01

  All right, welcome back. We got to talk about the Pixel 10s and Pixel 10 reviews. They're out now. We've got a lot of thoughts, but first I want to throw it to Ellis because I feel like we haven't heard your battery percentage in a minute.

• 38:43Speaker 03

  That's true. We've been forgetting. I've also been charging. We didn't, you know, it's what last night I got absolutely roasted on my own Instagram story for, God forbid, posting a picture with my own phone in it. So yeah, anyone want to take yesterday? I woke up kind of late. The phone came off the charger at 8:30 AM.

• 39:00Speaker 01

  And it's now almost noon.

• 39:02Speaker 03

  11:52. Yeah, so three and a half hours. And also, I might be switching to Android by the end of the week for a little bit.

• 39:11Speaker 01

  Say how long you last. Is that Pixel related?

• 39:13Speaker 03

  It's not Pixel related. It's my iPhone is officially crossed from like this barely works to like,

• 39:19Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 39:19Speaker 03

  like dead zones on the screen. Most things don't work anymore.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  I'm going to guess you're.

• 39:25Speaker 03

  So this is all to say, I, on the train, I'm, I'm reading on a OnePlus open right now and my iPhone largely stays off in my pocket or screen off in my pocket.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  So you used your phone less today?

• 39:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, I pretty much, I take it out to tap on the, to tap into the subway. Then it goes right back in my pocket and I pull out the, the OnePlus open.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  I'm going to guess 70. Seventy-two.

• 39:47Speaker 03

  Seventy-two?

• 39:48Speaker 04

  Forty-two.

• 39:49Speaker 03

  Forty-two for miles?

• 39:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Sixty-six.

• 39:51Speaker 03

  Sixty-six?

• 39:52Speaker 01

  Fifty-six.

• 39:53Speaker 03

  Fifty-six. Fifty-six despite not using it?

• 39:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:56Speaker 03

  Oh, man.

• 39:57Andrew Manganelli?

  That's where I was at until you said that.

• 39:59Speaker 03

  David is the victor. We are at seventy percent this morning.

• 40:03Andrew Manganelli?

  What? That was not that far.

• 40:04Speaker 03

  We're doing pretty good.

• 40:05Andrew Manganelli?

  You got time. You could make it till four P M. If you want.

• 40:06Speaker 03

  I absolutely cannot. Yesterday, yesterday, my phone died died at one P M. It made it halfway through the day. So so much for all day battery life. Apple, am I right?

• 40:18Speaker 01

  Damn. Yeah. The twelve mini notably was like the worst battery life. Did they ever claim all day battery about the twelve mini? I'm not sure. Probably not.

• 40:26Speaker 04

  I don't think they had it in their heart to do it.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  It would be tough. That would be tough. With MagSafe, you can top it up pretty quick. Well, speaking of MagSafe, I love this Pixel ten pros. Yeah. Pixels, pixels, ten, pixels, ten, ten pros. I love the Pixel ten pros MagSafe. Yeah. Uh, and by that I mean Pixel Snap, AKA Chi two. It turns out it's my favorite feature of the phone. Yeah. Is that a crazy take? No. No. It's awesome. Yeah. And that's, I mean, so there's a lot of people who don't have a bunch of MagSafe accessories sitting around. They don't have a bunch of wireless chargers and stuff like that. But as someone who does, wow, it's been awesome. And even if you don't, the world of accessories is open to you now because of having Chi two built into the phone and not needing a case is amazing.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  Power bank, stand, wireless charger, phone mount in your car. It's great. So that's a high that we can start with. Mm hmm. You've been testing a Pixel ten pro as well. Literally the same spec as me. Is that right? The moonstone one twenty-eight pro. One twenty-eight. Yeah. How's your experience been? It's been pretty good. I'm, we talked a little bit before about how Google is like really building out their ecosystem to basically match Apple almost exactly. You made a video about that last week. Uh.

• 41:37David Imel?

  Even today, and I guess they were already selling this when you would buy the phone, but they officially announced it today, I believe. They have now basically Apple Care, it's called Pixel Care Plus. So, yeah, it's the same.

• 41:48Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 41:48David Imel?

  Yeah. And they basically have parity with everything. The one things that have been annoying me, and I will say I've been mostly on an iPhone for the last year, which I do not like about myself, because it made it. The longer that you are on iPhone, the harder it is to switch back to Android.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  The more hooks they're getting you.

• 42:09David Imel?

  Yeah, just like the amount of friends that have just like been really actually mean to me about. It's like, we have our, guys, I advocated for RCS for years. We finally got it, and it works great.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  But the bubbles are still green.

• 42:22David Imel?

  She lit, she literally was like, "The color." And I was like, I, anyway, that's a whole.

• 42:27Speaker 03

  I, I thought you were dead this morning. When I text you like, "Hey David, do you want a carpool in this morning?" And my text is green, I was like, "Jesus, what happened?"

• 42:35David Imel?

  Yeah, the one thing that I miss the most, I would say, is Face ID being infrared. Because when I, when I try to turn this on in its low light, it's like, "Oh, I can't see your face." And then I have to go through the. And I've also had some interesting sort of like touch problems where I touch in an area and it doesn't really register it as well.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  Okay, interesting. I want to ask you a couple of questions about your use, because my, as of right now, as of the time of recording, it's Wednesday, and I haven't fully shot and edited the review yet, but I have all of the thoughts that I'm putting into the review.

• 43:07David Imel?

  Okay.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  One of them is the GPU on Tensor is not that great.

• 43:12David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 43:12Speaker 01

  And I, have you switched your phone, so it's the Pro, so it's already 120 Hz, but have you switched to max resolution or high resolution?

• 43:19David Imel?

  No, I've not changed any of those.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  So by default, it stays at high resolution. I, I was using it at high resolution, it was pretty smooth. I switched it to max resolution, and it started chopping a little bit.

• 43:28David Imel?

  Oh, really?

• 43:28Speaker 01

  And I was like, "That seems not great for a brand new phone."

• 43:32David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  So that's one thing.

• 43:33David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 43:33Speaker 01

  How's your battery life been?

• 43:35David Imel?

  Not as great as I sort of was expecting from the TSMC, you know, change. I will say, though, I was on a 16 Pro Max. So, and even that on Liquid Glass was like, that was horrible battery life for that. But it's been a little bit worse than that. So, I'm ending a day with like, with like 12% or so, which at least you can get through.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:58David Imel?

  Um, but I was kind of expecting like. Really, really good battery considering the TSMC change?

• 44:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've bounced, I've bounced back and forth between great battery and good battery.

• 44:08David Imel?

  Okay.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  I've had a day, I had a day where I had over six hours of screen on time and like 18% left. And I've had a day where, I mean, the earliest days, I can't put as much stock into because the phone's still sort of like finding its footing. But with this adaptive battery, I think I've had a day where I had like five hours and it was about to die.

• 44:23David Imel?

  Mm hmm.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  So, good to great sometimes.

• 44:26David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  And then just in general, like the software, I really like it. It's still a Pixel. That's still my good news thing. I think my overall thesis with this review, this is maybe the TLDR, since the review is a separate, longer video.

• 44:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 44:42Speaker 01

  But the TLDR is, the Pixel is still the Pixel. It's, it's kind of a finished thought for now.

• 44:47David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 44:47Speaker 01

  Like, they're not doing any massive revamp of like, oh, we did massive camera sensors or really fast charging or anything. They're not doing anything crazy.

• 44:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 44:55Speaker 01

  Not changing anything massive. Pixel's still the Pixel. It's still got the software. It's still got a pretty good camera with a lot of AI stuff. And they're trying to make the leap to the masses with this phone. And this year, that looked like Jimmy Fallon, Jonas Brothers, Pixel Snap, to be mag safe. Like directly bringing in normal people who may probably already have an iPhone and showing them all of the ways that it's easy to switch to this phone.

• 45:25David Imel?

  Mm hmm, mm hmm.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  And that's, that's what's happening with the Pixel. And it's like, okay, I wish the Tensor G5 was super powerful and like turned over a new leaf and suddenly has an awesome GPU. But it's just not.

• 45:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  And that's a bummer for people like me, but

• 45:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  It's still fine.

• 45:41David Imel?

  Have you used any of the new software features?

• 45:44Speaker 01

  A bunch, yeah.

• 45:44David Imel?

  Okay. Did you get the email about how you need to like not be in the beta for Google Messages to be able to?

• 45:52Speaker 01

  Magic Q.

• 45:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:53David Imel?

  Have you tried Magic, Magic Q?

• 45:54Speaker 01

  I've tried Magic Q. Very mixed experience with that. I've been prompt, like prompting myself through text messages from another line. Like setting it up to work really well.

• 46:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  And like seven times out of 10, it kind of doesn't do much or it'll just give me like a link to open a different app where I can find the relevant information.

• 46:13David Imel?

  Ah.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  So I'll ask like, when's your flight next week? And it'll be like, open the calendar right here, instead of the prompt it's supposed to give me with the actual flight info.

• 46:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  And then one or two times out of 10, like we got it to actually work when you texted me. You asked it a very specific question about a flight that we knew we had next week.

• 46:29David Imel?

  Instead, it answered by giving me my flight this week. So it had like the button there to like ready and autofill. But it was the wrong flight. That's almost worse. It's worse because when you press it, it doesn't autofill, it sends. It doesn't know you edit it.

• 46:46Andrew Manganelli?

  They should add long press to like, give a suggestion, tap to send, long press to like, Yeah. Just bring into your like messages box.

• 46:54David Imel?

  Well, think about this too, because like flight numbers are the same every day. So if it says, what was your, if you say, what was your flight number and it grabbed your flight from last week? And you, I mean, you don't know whether or not that's your flight number unless you actually go check it in the thing. So if you send the wrong flight number, you're not going to know. And then you give them wrong information. And that's, that's where these L L Ms like have problems.

• 47:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 47:18David Imel?

  We've seen multiple times it pulling like the wrong event from your calendar or like from your email, like, oh, my haircut last week. Like, what time did I get that? And it'll pull it from a month ago. Yeah.

• 47:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, if it was weird that it did it, because next week seems pretty obvious, especially because it's Wednesday today and it pulled Friday. So like, it should definitely know it's the following week.

• 47:37David Imel?

  Right.

• 47:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Uh, maybe if it was like a weekend, it would be a little confused.

• 47:40David Imel?

  Yeah. It also, it doesn't send the flight number, it just sends the date and the time that you're supposed to be flying. Which when I ask you about your flight.

• 47:49Andrew Manganelli?

  I did say, what time is your flight?

• 47:50David Imel?

  Yeah. So maybe we could try, what's your flight number? This one that we got to work said, when is your flight next week? And the tap that I could immediately click on with magic queue would send the time and date of my flight this week. And no flight number.

• 48:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I see this for a second? It's just annoying because the thing says like nine, one, 2025. And then says like where you're leaving from, where you're coming to, but when you press it, it only does the date and time.

• 48:18David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 48:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Um, which would be nice to say where it was going, like,

• 48:22David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 48:22Andrew Manganelli?

  You can give a little more information. I'm not typing it. I will always give more information if I don't have to type it. It would, it'd be great if it said flight number, like all sorts of different things. Cause Claire all the time will be like, hey, can you just send me your flight number? Like,

• 48:35David Imel?

  Yeah. Just so I can. If it's on time.

• 48:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. So I can see if it's on time or just to make sure, like, just in case anything were to happen. So if I could send her when we were leaving, where we were leaving, what, like the whole flight card I know it's pulling from, that would make way more sense.

• 48:47David Imel?

  Can you, I just texted you, what's your flight number for your flight next week? Okay. See if it.

• 48:52Andrew Manganelli?

  My thing also is when I was typing this, I was like, is this how I would actually have a friend?

• 48:56David Imel?

  So it gave you the actual flight number?

• 48:58Speaker 01

  It gave me my flight this week, but it gives me the flight number. And if I tap it, that's my flight number this week. And I'd have to edit it.

• 49:06David Imel?

  Did it tell you that it's for this week?

• 49:08Speaker 01

  I I recognize it as this week because of the destination in the in the magic cue card.

• 49:13David Imel?

  Okay.

• 49:13Speaker 01

  So I know that it's the wrong answer.

• 49:15David Imel?

  Okay.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  But it does give me the cue to to hit the.

• 49:19David Imel?

  At least it gives you context and stuff.

• 49:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:21David Imel?

  I think this one over here is next week.

• 49:23Speaker 01

  Can you?

• 49:23David Imel?

  So it's giving me this week and next week.

• 49:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Real quick, can you say like, when is your trip next week? I want to see if it's gonna associate. Yeah.

• 49:31David Imel?

  Okay. When is your trip next week?

• 49:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Cause I don't think, I was typing very specifically trying to trigger it. But do I think all the people like, when we talk about search engine, like our own type of like search engine type? Now this is other people coming to you. So what does it say?

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I it's pulling from my Google Calendar and it it's viewing my calendar event of drive to the studio in the morning. As my trip for next week and it's just putting eight AM tomorrow morning as my trip.

• 50:03David Imel?

  This is for next week. You know, it's a play off of what Ellis said last week about none of this stuff works. Um, in in the like perfect orb of like Google land or OpenAI land where all of this AI stuff actually works. Yeah, you can see the appeal.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:19David Imel?

  The problem is none of it, when it, at least by the time it ships and usually for a couple of years later, actually is like, works reliably.

• 50:27Speaker 01

  It's definitely not perfect.

• 50:28David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:29Andrew Manganelli?

  I like your, like their analogy is always, it's your personal assistant you don't have to pay for. If you had an assistant and said, when is my trip next week? And they said, you're driving to the studio tomorrow morning.

• 50:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, that would be a horrible response. Yeah. But I can see like a trajectory where in the future they can update this and tighten the strings and it will be a helpful assistant. So that if someone's like, when's your flight next week? They can send me the flight time, the flight number, the flight destination, just to make sure everything's working. And then it all is super useful for me.

• 51:00David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 51:01Andrew Manganelli?

  My other question is, will this be able to pull from multiple email addresses? Because if I don't put everything in my calendar, I'm still getting flight stuff to my possibly work email versus Google Messages is logged into my personal email. Or hotel reservations might go to my work email.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  It's probably from all of your Gmail accounts.

• 51:19David Imel?

  Magic U is, I mean, this is a setting in the phone, so I assume it's gonna pull from every Google account I'm signing into. But it's unclear.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 51:29David Imel?

  Okay, well, have you tried the conversational editing?

• 51:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, that bangs.

• 51:34David Imel?

  Bangs.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  It works.

• 51:36David Imel?

  Nice.

• 51:36Speaker 01

  It's really good.

• 51:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  It's kind of shockingly good, actually, and my, my question is, is it gonna do videos at some point?

• 51:43David Imel?

  Hmm.

• 51:43Speaker 01

  Because that would be.

• 51:44David Imel?

  Probably.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  That'd be.

• 51:45David Imel?

  That's probably next year.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, the conversational editing is literally just semantically parsing like the actions I'm asking for.

• 51:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  And just doing the edits for me in Google Photos. I think this is gonna be available for everyone at some point. But as of right now, on the Pixel 10, I open up a photo, I hit edit, and I go like, delete the car in the background and make the sky more blue. And then give it like five seconds and then you just have a photo with the cars deleted and the sky more blue. I just did the edits for you. That might have taken some time if you had to do it manually.

• 52:15David Imel?

  It's kind of the equivalent of now that the, the Tensor is so good at voice texting. It's like, I want to voice text more because it, it almost texts at the speed of thought.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:25David Imel?

  So if you can do that for editing, especially if something you're just quickly editing on the phone, you might as well, you know?

• 52:31Speaker 01

  It's a really appealing, it's literally the best thing about Gemini Nano on the device and like Tensor and the TPU and everything is

• 52:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  Voice texting

• 52:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  is incredible

• 52:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  on this phone.

• 52:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  So if you're into that.

• 52:42David Imel?

  Tensor upgrade for sure.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's pretty sick.

• 52:44David Imel?

  For sure. Yeah, I don't know, I think overall, it just really feels like they finally, like, the, the headline for the Pixel has always been the iPhone of Android, literally since the Pixel 1. But it feels like they actually made their iPhone now, like, everything is parody, so.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  More clearly than ever.

• 53:00David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  I do want to spend a beat on the camera because we said we were gonna get to this.

• 53:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  I think the, the wides, so first of all, triple cameras on the base phone is like the big deal with the cameras.

• 53:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 53:11Speaker 01

  The Pros have bigger sensors, but it's the same focal lengths for a wide and ultra wide and a telephoto. The zooms I've taken have been a letdown.

• 53:20David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  And I'm curious if you found the same thing because I, it's a 5X optical, which to me means everything between 1X and 5X is a little bit suboptimal.

• 53:30David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 53:30Speaker 01

  Then you get to 5X and it's good. And then for me, 5X to 10X is pretty good. And then beyond that, it tries at 30X to do the ProRes zoom thing. And I was comparing it to just the iPhone, which is not that great of a zoom. And I was comparing it to the S25 Ultra, which is a great zoom.

• 53:47David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 53:47Speaker 01

  And it was getting beat by both. And I just felt like a watercolor softness to every zoom photo I was taking.

• 53:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  And to be fair, maybe you don't take that many zoom photos. I just was, I felt like the future was encouraging me to take more zoom photos. So I was taking them, but it was, that part did let me down on the pixel.

• 54:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 54:05Speaker 01

  It definitely feels soft.

• 54:06David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 54:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Pixel and ultra zoomers, some sort of mega zoom and it not being great.

• 54:13David Imel?

  It definitely feels like Google in particular, like wants to flex their AI filling features so much that they don't care as much about the optics anymore for the actual.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  You never really cared about the optics. They just kind of struck gold with the older sensors and their processing and having like an early pixel that was like dominating.

• 54:31David Imel?

  Had contrast.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  But it's not like they were winning because the sensor was amazing. They were winning because their image processing pipeline was god tier. And then, you know, they did eventually upgrade the sensors and they're bigger sensors now, but they're, they're, they're not like winning.

• 54:45David Imel?

  About the same though.

• 54:46Speaker 01

  Exactly. They're not winning because their hardware is amazing. They're just still doing Google stuff with the camera.

• 54:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  So that's still true. Pixel's still pixel.

• 54:54David Imel?

  Yeah, I just, I was not super impressed with the cameras overall. Like this is just like a, it's a, this is a 5X zoom photo of this bird.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:01David Imel?

  And it's, it's a bird.

• 55:03Andrew Manganelli?

  That one's pretty solid.

• 55:03David Imel?

  It's okay. It's like there, but you compare this to any Chinese phone that's out right now and they blow it away by far.

• 55:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. And this is a thousand dollar phone, to be clear. Like I'm comparing it to iPhone 16 Pro, another thousand dollar phone, which doesn't have that much emphasis on zoom and it gets beat. I'm comparing this to like Chinese phones that are 900 to 1200 bucks that are, are spanking it in the zoom department. So if you care about zoom, I would say. The Pixel is gonna be a letdown for you.

• 55:29David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 55:29Speaker 01

  Uh, but normal wides look really good.

• 55:31David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 55:32Speaker 01

  Which is nice.

• 55:32David Imel?

  But like fine detail in bokeh, you zoom, you like you crop in at all and just falls apart. The, the bokeh in the background looks like really kinda gross and artificial and.

• 55:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:42David Imel?

  I don't know. It's funny that the Pixel went from like the camera phone to now it is the smartest phone.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:48David Imel?

  But the camera is like an afterthought.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, it turned out it was the camera phone because it was the smartest.

• 55:53David Imel?

  Yeah, true. Yes.

• 55:54Speaker 01

  Which is kinda sneaky.

• 55:55David Imel?

  Yes.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  It turns out that's why.

• 55:56David Imel?

  Yes. So.

• 55:57Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, that makes me feel better. I ordered the regular ten. But like the biggest thing between the two, one of them seems to be like the new sensors on like the telephoto and the

• 56:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 56:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Ultra wide. And if they're really not that great anyways, then I think.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  And you're okay with sixty hertz.

• 56:12Andrew Manganelli?

  It's not sixty hertz, isn't it?

• 56:14Speaker 01

  It is sixty by default, but there's a box to check to be one twenty.

• 56:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Adaptive.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, adaptive.

• 56:18Andrew Manganelli?

  It's not one to one.

• 56:19Speaker 01

  Sorry, sorry, sorry. I'm an L C P O.

• 56:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 56:22Speaker 01

  I shouldn't have said that. Yeah.

• 56:24Andrew Manganelli?

  And then, I mean, it's got a better selfie. All, it seems like all of that. And what I didn't realize last time we talked is I thought the Pro started at two fifty six. It doesn't. It's nine ninety nine at one twenty eight.

• 56:35David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 56:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Which I think is a travesty.

• 56:36Speaker 01

  The Pro XL starts at two fifty.

• 56:38David Imel?

  Yes.

• 56:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Which is, uh, so I like bumped up to get two fifty six.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  On the regular one?

• 56:44Andrew Manganelli?

  On the regular one.

• 56:44Speaker 01

  Here comes the price ladder.

• 56:46Andrew Manganelli?

  But it still would be a price ladder, even if you went regular seven ninety nine.

• 56:50Speaker 01

  You're right.

• 56:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Two fifty six eight. But no, to get two fifty six Pro is two hundred dollars more than that.

• 56:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Stupid.

• 56:56Speaker 01

  Wait, really?

• 56:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, cause then it's ten ninety nine to get.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  Oh, my goodness.

• 57:00Andrew Manganelli?

  It's good. Nine ninety nine, one twenty eight, ten ninety nine, two fifty six.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  Oh, my goodness.

• 57:04Andrew Manganelli?

  So, yeah. And also lemongrass is the best color by like a long shot. Please mute both of their microphones.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  Unreal. The hot take.

• 57:11Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm get, I'm immediately getting the D brand ghost case to keep so I can show.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  You really got that lemongrass?

• 57:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Hell, yeah. I'll show you right here.

• 57:18Speaker 01

  Oh, my goodness. I, I do think the, the thing that we said for a couple of years about the Pixel, which is the gap between the Pro and the regular phone is pretty small.

• 57:28David Imel?

  It's so small now.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  Really makes the regular phone feel like a good deal.

• 57:33David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 57:33Speaker 01

  And the Pro phone specifically, when compared to the base phone.

• 57:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 57:37Speaker 01

  Like not that good of a deal.

• 57:39David Imel?

  The fact that this is now a $200 Delta, though, instead of a $300 Delta is a pretty big deal. Because back on the Pixel 6 and Pixel 7, the reason we were saying like you're not getting.

• 57:49Andrew Manganelli?

  It was 399, right?

• 57:50David Imel?

  Yeah, the base was such a good deal. I'm happy about that. It's like one of the best deal phones out there. But it just made the Pro seem like not a good deal. You know what I mean?

• 58:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, but even now today, like, okay, what's the difference between the Pixel 10 and a Pixel 10 Pro? Bigger sensors on all the cameras, better selfie camera, LTPO, slightly brighter, slightly higher res, slightly smaller battery.

• 58:16David Imel?

  Yeah, there's like, there's a ProRes zoom instead of.

• 58:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, Pro camera.

• 58:20David Imel?

  Super zoom.

• 58:21Speaker 01

  Pro camera feature.

• 58:21David Imel?

  Which you may use sometimes.

• 58:22Andrew Manganelli?

  That's a pro. Pro model should be that. Pro model should be, there's one thing I really, really want that's better. So I'm going to go this. Most people in most situations should be buying base models.

• 58:32David Imel?

  Yeah, and I think Google probably knows that because.

• 58:35Andrew Manganelli?

  I agree.

• 58:35David Imel?

  The phones that sell the most volume like in the United States are really, really cheap phones, right? It's the iPhone and then it's the Samsungs. And then after that, it's always been like Motorola and, and, um, and, uh, Alcatel or whatever, you know, it's like, it's like the pay as you go, like super cheap stuff. And so if Google is able to be like, hey, you can pay $20 less a month and it's basically what you'd need. Then that's a really good model for them. So.

• 59:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:01David Imel?

  Yeah. Um, speak of phones.

• 59:06David Imel?

  We're, we're already moving on to Apple.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  Elite transition.

• 59:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Last talk about Pixel for the rest of the year.

• 59:11Speaker 03

  I'm sorry, I, I need to help clarifying something before we leave Pixel.

• 59:14David Imel?

  Sure.

• 59:14Speaker 03

  Why does Google call it lemongrass and everyone else calls it limoncello?

• 59:20Andrew Manganelli?

  That's what their old yellow was and we were just all calling it limoncello before the official thing came.

• 59:25David Imel?

  It's a more fun word to say.

• 59:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Sorry, that's, you heard everyone in here talking about it because that's what the last time it was called.

• 59:31Speaker 03

  Confused as heck.

• 59:32David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 59:33Andrew Manganelli?

  I think limoncello is more, is better.

• 59:35David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 59:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, also that's the color that this actually is. I mean, it's not, it's piss.

• 59:42Andrew Manganelli?

  I'll need some more water.

• 59:45Speaker 03

  But uh.

• 59:46David Imel?

  Yeah, if you're.

• 59:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Or a doctor, probably.

• 59:49David Imel?

  Anyway. Dr. Pepper man over here.

• 59:52Speaker 03

  iPhones.

• 59:52David Imel?

  Not doing enough water runs, Alice. Well, okay, so we'll, we'll have the full Pixel 10 review shortly. Yeah. But we are already moving on to iPhones because Apple has officially announced the iPhone 17 launch event for the day we all knew it would be, which is September 9th. Do we get to overanalyze the invitation now? So apparently, and I haven't done this yet, and maybe we should just do this live. If you go to the invite on Safari. Anywhere browser.

• 1:00:19Andrew Manganelli?

  It's if you just go apple.com.

• 1:00:21David Imel?

  Okay. So if you, what we're seeing right now is the invite is called, it just says Apple event and it's got this liquid glass iPhone above it with sort of this rainbow, almost Siri-esque thing on it. I would call it like. It's heat map.

• 1:00:32Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like, it's like thermal imaging.

• 1:00:34David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Apple logo. Yeah. And like, it's a heat map.

• 1:00:37Speaker 03

  Someone's never seen a thermal camera before and it shows.

• 1:00:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes, I have.

• 1:00:41David Imel?

  The camera boy.

• 1:00:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, specifically heat map also because when you move your mouse around it, it shows the like red, like it's heated up.

• 1:00:54David Imel?

  Do we want to analyze that?

• 1:00:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know what.

• 1:00:56David Imel?

  It means that it gets really hot. All we know is it's awe dropping. That's the tag, the tag phrase. Sometimes it's really obvious, but awe dropping and the heat map. Awe dropping is very generic. I don't know what to make of awe dropping, to be honest. I think it just means amazing. Yeah, it's like a generic, like jaw dropping.

• 1:01:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, wait.

• 1:01:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, awe dropping is not a phrase.

• 1:01:17David Imel?

  This might. I know it's not supposed to be. Inspiring and jaw dropping combined.

• 1:01:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you think?

• 1:01:21David Imel?

  It's, it's just jaw dropping, but. Awe inspiring and jaw dropping. Right. Combined into one.

• 1:01:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you think this would be the best iPhone they've ever released?

• 1:01:30David Imel?

  No. According to Apple, yes. That's what they want us, that's, that's where they want us to be.

• 1:01:34Speaker 03

  I did hear it's gonna have all day battery life, though.

• 1:01:37David Imel?

  Dude, all day? Yeah, because there won't be a mini version, that's why. That's crazy. I think someone has at some point compiled like all of the previous Apple events and then what the major announcement turned out to be and how it's connected to the teaser. Right. I'm very curious how this heat map is gonna translate to whatever we see at the September event. This is a live heat map of the 17 Air.

• 1:01:57Andrew Manganelli?

  What if it has a temperature sensor?

• 1:02:00David Imel?

  Thermometer like the pixel.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  Wait, does the pixel?

• 1:02:02David Imel?

  It does, it does, but only on the Pro. I literally forgot about it.

• 1:02:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Yep, the funny thing about it is we all missed in the leaks when we were wondering if it was the base or the Pro. None of us here clocked that there was a temperature sensor on the back of it. And it was the Pro. We got torn apart for that one.

• 1:02:17Speaker 03

  Um, hear me out.

• 1:02:18Andrew Manganelli?

  That's how much we remembered it.

• 1:02:19Speaker 03

  There's a temperature sensor, but it's built into like the combo like antenna frame of the phone. And so to use it on food, you need to fully insert your phone into the, into the meat.

• 1:02:30David Imel?

  IP sixty-eight, baby.

• 1:02:33Speaker 01

  That would be wild.

• 1:02:34David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I really don't know what to make of the temperature. Is it? Let me look at the comments. I tweeted this invitation and nobody really said anything about it.

• 1:02:40Andrew Manganelli?

  I tried to, I read a few articles and there's very few, almost all of the ones previous were like, this and this are the teasers. This is obviously what they mean. And I just didn't see that. I could have missed it, but.

• 1:02:51Speaker 01

  People are saying thermal camera. That is the most useless thing anyone could put in your phone. I don't understand.

• 1:02:56David Imel?

  Yeah. Well, literally what would be the value of that?

• 1:02:59Speaker 03

  Really cool looking photos. You could pretend to be Brock Hampton.

• 1:03:03Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean. You could see a potential gas leak in your house with your iPhone. Oh, that's a good. That's a perfect FOMO.

• 1:03:10Speaker 03

  Could you do that with a thermal camera?

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  Remember the cat?

• 1:03:13Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  Remember the cat phones had this? The caterpillar phones?

• 1:03:16David Imel?

  Yeah, or you could go, you could buy like a FLIR camera.

• 1:03:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:19David Imel?

  And like look at infrared or, and see like things that were hotter with the heat signatures.

• 1:03:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:24Andrew Manganelli?

  There are types of thermal cameras that can do it.

• 1:03:26Speaker 03

  Oh, the, the vapor chamber rubbers.

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  Whatever.

• 1:03:31David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:32Speaker 01

  So the phone, oh, cause the.

• 1:03:33Speaker 03

  I don't think previous iPhones had vapor chamber cooling.

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  So the new one was gonna have vapor chambers with the air.

• 1:03:38Speaker 03

  I stole this idea from Mac rumors. I'm not that smart.

• 1:03:41David Imel?

  Oh, did you look up what people think it is?

• 1:03:43Speaker 03

  I Googled.

• 1:03:46Speaker 03

  Apple event heat map thermal.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  Hmm. I'm gonna ask ChatGPT. I'm gonna feed it a picture of the invite and ask it what it thinks the hidden feature is going to be.

• 1:04:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

  I'll, I'll report back.

• 1:04:02David Imel?

  I like that. Yeah, anyway, um, we are expected, obviously, to see the new pros that look like pixels. Um, it all comes around, you know? Uh, Google tries to be like Apple, Apple tries to be like Google, now we are at the singularity. And, uh, we are obviously supposed to see the iPhone 17 Air as well. Which someone had asked me, do you think that they are making the Air just sort of as a way of prepping for the foldable iPhone?

• 1:04:29Andrew Manganelli?

  I see stuff like that also, and I don't make the connection.

• 1:04:32David Imel?

  I could see like they needed to engineer a lot of thinner parts, and so they have gotten to that point. And they're, but they're still working on the foldable, so they're like, well, we might as well make use of this.

• 1:04:42Andrew Manganelli?

  I guess the funny thing, have we confirmed the Air? I guess it has to be thinner, right?

• 1:04:46David Imel?

  Oh, yeah, it's the whole thing.

• 1:04:48Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, the pick, the.

• 1:04:50David Imel?

  It'll have all day battery. Okay, ChatGPT has done an interesting job here. Jaw dropping design, awe dropping is basically talking about the Air is gonna have this jaw dropping, super thin design. Yeah, five and a half millimeters, thinnest iPhone ever, it drops your jaw. That's what they're saying. And then the color palette, they're saying because the heat signatures are kind of between blue and orange. Those are the two new colors of the iPhone Pro, the blue and the orange. Remember you've seen the teasers?

• 1:05:20Speaker 01

  And plus liquid glass.

• 1:05:22Andrew Manganelli?

  But that doesn't help when it goes to red on the heat map.

• 1:05:24David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:25Speaker 03

  It's hard that it's not.

• 1:05:27David Imel?

  Can you follow up with it and say, so why does it turn red when I drag my mouse around it?

• 1:05:31Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it's not seeing the animation of that. I also don't get how jaw dropping means iPhone Air.

• 1:05:36David Imel?

  Because it's gonna be so thin, you're gonna be unable, not, I mean, they're gonna make a big deal about how thin it is.

• 1:05:41Speaker 03

  They should have called it jaw inspiring.

• 1:05:43David Imel?

  Jaw inspiring. Inspired by your jaw.

• 1:05:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, man, is that our, is that our title for the Apple episode?

• 1:05:53David Imel?

  Jaw inspiring.

• 1:05:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Jaw inspiring.

• 1:05:55David Imel?

  Which, by the way, we are gonna be doing a podcast at Apple Park about this.

• 1:05:59Andrew Manganelli?

  We will be out there this year.

• 1:06:01Speaker 03

  Are we publicly announcing that right now?

• 1:06:03David Imel?

  Well, it won't be a live, like, thing.

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  We will, our goal is to do a podcast out there at some point in some place.

• 1:06:09Speaker 03

  Well, no, if we're gonna say it, guys, let's put some enthusiasm on it.

• 1:06:12David Imel?

  Yeah, we, we haven't locked on the details yet.

• 1:06:14Speaker 03

  Live from Apple, not live, taped from Apple campus after the event.

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  Definitely stay tuned. Next week's episode is gonna be awesome, or whatever, two weeks from now.

• 1:06:25Speaker 01

  But yeah, ChatGPT says it's coded vapor chamber iPhone 17 Pro. Who cares about that? Does anyone care about that?

• 1:06:33Speaker 03

  David, you've been talking about how hot your iPhone is for the past six episodes.

• 1:06:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, because of liquid glass.

• 1:06:38Andrew Manganelli?

  I think that's just poor efficiency.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  That's one of those things. That's one of those things Apple does. They will come out with a new software feature that ends up being way better on the newer phones. And so even though you have the software feature on your current phone, you still want to upgrade because that vapor chamber is gonna make my liquid glass run all day.

• 1:06:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Are you saying the iPhone 17 is built for liquid glass?

• 1:07:00Speaker 01

  Yes. They will say. Yes, that's exactly what they're gonna do. Built for liquid glass. And it's gonna have all day battery life again. You know what they're gonna say? They're gonna say, liquid glass uses this many rendering engines and it can get quite hot because it's marveling the beauty of the liquid glass. But with iPhone 17 Pro, we've built this specifically for liquid glass. I would even bet that there will be special liquid glass animations that are enabled by the vapor chamber on the 17 Pros.

• 1:07:30Andrew Manganelli?

  That's a lot of processing to not be able to read things on your own.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, super, super niche possible bet that I'm willing to make. Marketing.

• 1:07:38Andrew Manganelli?

  This is the bet. If you lose, you have to buy Hasselblad.

• 1:07:41Speaker 04

  I am honestly excited for vapor chamber cooling, not because I use liquid glass or want to, but every time we go outside to shoot an autofocus video and we have something connected to the USB-C port, you notice how the brightness on the screen just drops to like 2% because it's cooking after like 10 minutes of usage. So I actually, this does actually have real world application for me that I'm.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  That's, that's actually very fair. And you know, if we want to talk about like the quote pro iPhone and how people like use it for their job, we use these phones to shoot videos and one of the most common issues with it is they overheat after a while. And this would make it easier to shoot for a long time in hot places. It's more surprising that they didn't have it before because every other smartphone has had some sort of insane cooling solution, so. And then I could talk about like gaming performance and stuff. Yeah. What, who you done with?

• 1:08:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Who?

• 1:08:36Speaker 01

  Other ones? Yeah. Red Magic?

• 1:08:42Speaker 03

  This is the first time also that you could be talking about the new iPhone with your buds. And if your mom found your phone, she would think you were talking about drugs. Like, like your mom finding your, a tax box on your phone that's like, oh, man, like, I was so excited to hit, to use all this liquid glass, but my vapor chamber hasn't come in yet.

• 1:09:00David Imel?

  My vape chamber, my vape chame. Sick. Yeah, it's like that, so I won't bring that up.

• 1:09:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, Adam's gonna cut that anyway.

• 1:09:08David Imel?

  Yeah, no, it's funny.

• 1:09:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, but not to Adam.

• 1:09:11Speaker 01

  Well, one more quick, one more quick iPhone related headline before we take a quick break, which is, I don't know if you guys saw this, there's a Bloomberg, I guess it's a rumor, because it's not really.

• 1:09:22David Imel?

  It's also not, though. We'll bring it up first and then we'll.

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, so allegedly, Apple is in discussion with Google about using Gemini to power this revamped Siri. So as we know, Apple's been working on this revamped Siri powered by LLMs for a while, still not out.

• 1:09:38David Imel?

  One year.

• 1:09:39Speaker 01

  Is it over a year?

• 1:09:40David Imel?

  Well, the next event will be one year because the iPhone 17 was built for Apple intelligence.

• 1:09:44Speaker 01

  Right, so it's been a year since then, but even Dub Dub was.

• 1:09:47David Imel?

  16, sorry.

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, Dub Dub was when they announced it. So it's been over a year since they showed it.

• 1:09:52David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:52Speaker 01

  And we still don't have this new Siri, right? So we're all kind of wondering when it's gonna come out, how hard could this be, what are their holdups, what is the progress they're making? They're not gonna tell us any of this stuff. But this conversation of like, maybe we'll work with Google and then Gemini will power it, is, it kind of reads like an April Fool's Day headline, like, really? We're gonna ask Siri and Siri's gonna just do more Google stuff? What, like, how, the whole Apple and Siri thing and being focused on privacy seems like it does not compute with working with Google? I don't know. It's a weird headline.

• 1:10:25David Imel?

  Floundering, for sure. I've heard from multiple people inside of Apple that, like, people are getting moved around different teams that were working on certain teams, they're all getting moved to like the Siri team and they're just racing to do, there's been all these leaks and rumors that they're thinking about buying Anthropic and they're thinking of doing this and like, that's all recent, which means that like.

• 1:10:43Speaker 01

  Which means they're not gonna, they're not done.

• 1:10:45David Imel?

  They're not.

• 1:10:46Speaker 01

  They're not close.

• 1:10:46David Imel?

  And it's, how did they announce this a year and a half ago when they were this far behind?

• 1:10:51Speaker 01

  Behind.

• 1:10:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, I don't think they knew they were this far behind, but now they do.

• 1:10:55David Imel?

  Well, so if you'll remember, there was this special, like if you were at the event, they had this like kind of sit down thing with I justine last year where she asked them some questions. And they said that she she said, like, are you exclusively working with OpenAI about, you know, the using these L L Ms? And they said, oh, no, we're we're like looking into working with Gemini as well. So they clearly already had said publicly that they were they were going to have an option eventually to. It was like the.

• 1:11:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Or like the chat G P T.

• 1:11:28David Imel?

  Yeah. Do you want to ask chat G P T? They said eventually we're going to be able to do and ask Gemini instead. But now, I mean, it seems like they need to use it for more than just that.

• 1:11:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, that and that's there's a whole bunch of questions about like how if you work at Apple, you probably think about this, like, how do you see the future of of people? Talking to L L Ms? Will they be actively switching between models consciously? Or should there just be your model and your model can do everything for them? I know when I'm in Raycast, I can switch between Gemini and, you know, chat G P T for different things because I know one does something better than the other, but do we want regular people doing that? I don't know.

• 1:12:07David Imel?

  But that's also the model that like goes to the Internet and tries to fetch information, whereas the the Siri model was supposed to be the model that controls the phone. That knows what you mean when you say, hey, what time is my Uber going to get here? So it can reach inside of Uber and tell you that information. That local model, it's like Gemini Nano, it should be able to like.

• 1:12:26Speaker 01

  Should run on device.

• 1:12:27David Imel?

  Run on device.

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  Quickly.

• 1:12:28David Imel?

  So is like Siri AI just going to use Gemini Nano?

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  Really funny, but it's like if Apple's not a really, really heavy AI first company, maybe they're having too much trouble shrinking their model to be totally on device to do that type of stuff. Maybe they actually do need that type of help.

• 1:12:44David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Who pays who? In this scenario?

• 1:12:48Speaker 01

  In this one, because it's not gonna be coded and say it's Gemini, I assume, it's probably Apple paying Google.

• 1:12:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, but if, yeah, I guess if Google knows it gets all of the data.

• 1:13:00Speaker 01

  They will, they can't.

• 1:13:02Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't think they can either, but.

• 1:13:04David Imel?

  Especially if it's a local model, it won't, that data won't go anywhere.

• 1:13:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, it'll be like, Apple buys this technology from Google or something.

• 1:13:12David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:13Speaker 01

  They get to use it and run it locally.

• 1:13:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:15Speaker 03

  I think another interesting little tidbit of this whole saga for Apple has been the papers they've been publishing because they run a machine learning lab. I know, let me make sure I got this title right. The big paper that made the big splash was from June of this year called The Illusion of Thinking. That was comparing LLM and LRM's ability to solve different complexities of tasks.

• 1:13:41David Imel?

  Large language and large reasoning, right?

• 1:13:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, large language model, large reasoning model. And it's pretty critical, it's pretty like, we are, you know, these things are not as powerful as we want them to be. They put out a paper last week that was kind of interesting that I only skimmed.

• 1:13:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too. I summarized it with ChatGPT.

• 1:13:59Speaker 03

  It's called The Superweight in Large Language Models, and it's about how with LLM specifically, you can severely alter the outcomes by changing only a few weights. Like even if there's millions of different parameters in their models, you can change like five or six weights and like have it give a completely different answer. Anyway, this is all to say, to me, when it's like, they're like pushing and pushing this back, it feels like because Apple has slightly different standards for what like a working product is than the rest of the tech industry, they themselves are starting to realize like, oh, we're not, we're not ready.

• 1:14:33David Imel?

  It's also one of those things where all of these AI companies have a lot to gain by being misleading.

• 1:14:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:39David Imel?

  And Apple has a lot to gain by not being misleading, but they also have a lot to lose. Like because they're not ready, they don't have this stuff ready.

• 1:14:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:48David Imel?

  They never wanted to do this heavy, you know, LLM stuff, they got forced to do it because the stock market.

• 1:14:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:54David Imel?

  You know, there's gonna be incentive on both sides to be either. Positive or negative about the state of this technology, but Apple doesn't have a lot to gain on hyping up the technology, especially because of how behind they are.

• 1:15:06Speaker 03

  Well, and it's like their their stock price will not be affected by people speculating how good new Siri is going to be. You know what I mean? Whereas most of these other players are.

• 1:15:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, they'll get to use the term AI, which is great for stock prices.

• 1:15:21Speaker 03

  It is for great stock prices, but to me, I've always understood. And now we're getting into investment talks.

• 1:15:26David Imel?

  This is not investment advice.

• 1:15:28Speaker 03

  It's like so much of these other publicly traded AI companies, like they're they don't have sales or like assets or like like actual revenue that would support their stock price like the stock like like their stock price is supported by this speculative idea that they will can they will have the dominant AI and whatever weird future we enter. Whereas Apple makes the iPhone like they're they're gonna be fine. You know, their their their stock price is not as dependent on this idea that one day, every single piece of reasoning and humanity will be done by Gemini or ChatGPT. Or whatever meta is cooking up.

• 1:16:04David Imel?

  I do think investors look at this and they say like, oh, if Apple falls behind on this thing that the tech bros say is going to be the next coming of God, then Google is really forward in the next coming of God, then like we'll put people stop buying iPhones and therefore their stock goes down because they don't make as much revenue, ABC. Yeah, it's a bunch of ifs. They're looking 30 years in the future. They're trying to like predict the next boom.

• 1:16:27Andrew Manganelli?

  They're all just gambling.

• 1:16:29David Imel?

  That's true.

• 1:16:30Speaker 03

  But we should all read this super weight in large language models. Pretty cool. If you're curious.

• 1:16:35David Imel?

  If you're curious, maybe I'll just have chat.

• 1:16:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you know what I'm curious about? What the trivia question.

• 1:16:41Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:16:44David Imel?

  Ayo.

• 1:16:47Speaker 03

  Guys, after the break, we're going to talk YouTube features because we recently got access or on the last episode of the podcast, people were hyping us up. And that's the first time we've ever seen that in action. So naturally I had to write a question about old YouTube features that no longer exist. So this is, this is coming in Price is Right rules. But it's a, it's a, it's a year question. So you need to, if you go past the year, later than the year, that's, that's the over.

• 1:17:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:17:18Andrew Manganelli?

  The higher year is over?

• 1:17:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 1:17:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. So guys, in what year did YouTube remove all existing annotations from videos? That were already on the platform? A few years before that, they, they got rid of the ability to add new annotations.

• 1:17:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:36Speaker 03

  But in what year did they say, oh yeah, you're pointing to this part of the screen? It means nothing anymore.

• 1:17:42Speaker 01

  Annotations were a super common feature.

• 1:17:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Annotations were the perfect example of this is why we can't have nice things.

• 1:17:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, because people abused it. I will say there were channels that used it very gracefully. I think Mystery Guitar Man might've even done like a choose your own adventure type of thing.

• 1:17:57Speaker 03

  I remember that video.

• 1:17:58Speaker 01

  Where like click on this part of the video and it'll take you to an unlisted video. And then click on this annotation and you're like moving through unlisted videos through annotations.

• 1:18:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Even just getting to like fix a mistake where like maybe you just said something wrong. And if you could throw a text annotation, but we can't do that because people have to make full screen invisible annotations where you clicked it and it went to like a malicious website instead.

• 1:18:16Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh. Yeah. This is, yeah, this is one of the biggest difficulties with making YouTube videos. It's like on a website, you can make a correction and you can say corrected at this moment. This is what we originally said. This is what we're saying now. You can't do that with video. I think they should be able to bring back just plain text annotation.

• 1:18:36Andrew Manganelli?

  I agree.

• 1:18:36Speaker 01

  Like there is a video editor on YouTube and you can do things like blur stuff and you can make critical cuts from a video. I think you should be able to do YouTube, if you're listening, you should be able to do plain text, non-linked annotations on a YouTube video. Every journalist on the platform and everyone who's ever made a typo in a video would love that ability. Yeah. And there's no way it would be abused.

• 1:18:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Imagine it works like the blurring feature where slowly over time, the blur just starts twitching and like growing into different parts of the video.

• 1:19:04Speaker 01

  That's also possible. Okay. We'll think about that one though, annotations. Good trivia question.

• 1:19:09Speaker 03

  If I was president, my first law would be Mystery Guitar Man is the only person in the United States who's allowed to wear sunglasses indoors. I think he earned it and everyone else is just shocking his sweat.

• 1:19:21Speaker 01

  Casey's right behind him and then it's.

• 1:19:23Speaker 03

  Sorry, Casey.

• 1:19:24David Imel?

  Yeah, I would finally be able to see Anna Wintour's eyes. Yeah.

• 1:19:29Speaker 03

  No, not Pitbull, just Mystery Guitar Man. Sorry, Pitbull.

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  Sorry, Pitbull.

• 1:19:33David Imel?

  Help for president 2028.

• 1:19:34Speaker 01

  We'll be right back.

• 1:19:48Speaker 01

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• 1:21:51Andrew Manganelli?

  All right, welcome back. I have a game to talk about, a game that I don't even really know that well, but something just happened and it was very funny. And I think there's a tech world comparison we're used to, we can make. So in the indie game world, we kind of had something similar to like the Apple event launching, which is this game called Hollow Knight. The second version of it called Hollow Knight Silk Song just got announced after six years since the last one. The first one was incredibly popular. It's a Metroidvania style game.

• 1:22:23David Imel?

  It was six years since the announcement of Silk Song.

• 1:22:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Since the announcement.

• 1:22:26David Imel?

  Hollow Knight came out in 2017.

• 1:22:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, yeah. It's Metroidvania style, which basically is just, it's like a nonlinear side scrolling type of game. It's a mix between Metroid and Castlevania is what that means. Anyways, it is the most wishlisted game on scene in that last six years. And I think the last time we saw like a teaser for it was in 2022. But anyways, they just announced their launch date, but because of how popular this game is, dozens of other indie games have straight up just been like, we're postponing our launch. And in every single one that I've read so far, they are also postponing their launch just straight up saying, because Silk Song is coming out, we're delaying this. Like, half of them said,

• 1:23:11Andrew Manganelli?

  I can't wait to play Silk Song, but we're delaying our game because this is so big and we don't want to. So it reminds me of, like you said, the OnePlus event that announced and then was the same day as the Apple.

• 1:23:22David Imel?

  The OnePlus 6 event got announced and then like two weeks beforehand, Apple was like, iPhone event this day and OnePlus was like, oh God. So they moved it for like, they moved it to be two weeks after the Apple event because yeah, you can't do that.

• 1:23:39Andrew Manganelli?

  But now imagine in our world, though. Google or whatever changes their event and straight up just goes, because the Apple.

• 1:23:47David Imel?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:23:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Don't make up an excuse or anything.

• 1:23:50David Imel?

  People also do this with Taylor Swift artists when they know she's dropping, they're like,

• 1:23:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Sure they do.

• 1:23:55David Imel?

  You got it fam.

• 1:23:56Andrew Manganelli?

  That's all you. And it makes sense in the indie game world because like a lot of these developers are really small teams and like, it's kind of make or break if they're, if it does well. So like,

• 1:24:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Delay it a month, give yourself the best chance possible.

• 1:24:09David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:10Andrew Manganelli?

  I understand.

• 1:24:11David Imel?

  I read a very long kind of retrospective on this whole situation and I apologize if I get some small facts incorrect, but I believe effectively what it was, was that Hollow Knight was like unbelievably popular. They announced Silk Song as like, it was supposed to be a DLC to Hollow Knight.

• 1:24:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, really?

• 1:24:25David Imel?

  So it wasn't gonna cut, it was only gonna take a little bit of time to develop, but they ended up enjoying the development process so much and like, it was gonna be a new character with some new areas, but then they were like, wait, this new character, we could do so much with this. So like, okay, we're gonna turn it into a game. And then years went by and randomly at different games, events like Gamescom and like the Switch, all this stuff. They would like, they would show a little teaser or they'd let you play like five minutes of it. And then they would just go dark again for like two to two and a half years. And now, uh, literally like a few days ago, they officially put out, they had a little event where they just like, put out some gameplay and they put out the release date.

• 1:25:06Andrew Manganelli?

  September.

• 1:25:06David Imel?

  September 4th. And someone did a interview with the developers and were like, what's the inside story? Like, why did this get delayed so many times? Like, why is it taking so long? And they were just like, it was really fun to make. Like, we just really wanted to, we wanted to add like way more content and we just kept realizing that it was like, not gonna happen if we released it so early. So we just kept doing it. And in the words of Gabe Newell, uh, bad is forever, delayed is temporary. So.

• 1:25:35Andrew Manganelli?

  That's true.

• 1:25:36David Imel?

  That's the Apple philosophy with the new Siri.

• 1:25:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, they.

• 1:25:39David Imel?

  Well.

• 1:25:41Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:25:42Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know. This isn't a type of game that I would play, but it does look beautiful and it looks really complicated, but in one of those ways where like it's so complicated when you know how complicated and know how to work the controls, it looks super fun.

• 1:25:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, it's like a low skill floor, extremely high skill ceiling kind of game.

• 1:25:59Speaker 03

  Is that what being a dad is like?

• 1:26:01David Imel?

  Low skill floor, extremely high.

• 1:26:02Speaker 01

  I think there's a, I think there's a high skill.

• 1:26:04Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know. I hit the ceiling immediately. So I wouldn't know.

• 1:26:07Speaker 01

  You gotta break through that ceiling, Andrew.

• 1:26:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. Anyways, that's, I won't say anything else about that because we'll probably get some small information wrong and look like, uh, posers.

• 1:26:17Speaker 01

  Well, we are posers.

• 1:26:18Andrew Manganelli?

  We are.

• 1:26:18Speaker 01

  We don't play video games. We're not. We're just, yeah. My comp is it feels like Daft Punk album. I know they're not making any new albums, but when they went a decade between making albums, it was kind of like, I don't know, what's taking so long? And then you see the behind the scenes and you're like, oh, that's what took so long.

• 1:26:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:35Speaker 01

  But it's once a decade.

• 1:26:37David Imel?

  That's true. That's why, that's my Streetlight Manifesto album. They went 12 years without an album. They announced it. They announced a specific release date, six days before the release date. They're like, nope.

• 1:26:47Speaker 01

  Give me some more.

• 1:26:48David Imel?

  Now it's coming out in the fall.

• 1:26:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:50David Imel?

  And I'm waiting with.

• 1:26:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, it's still not out yet?

• 1:26:52David Imel?

  No.

• 1:26:52Andrew Manganelli?

  I thought you went and saw them before.

• 1:26:54David Imel?

  I have seen them six times this year and, and yeah, they released three early demos of three tracks.

• 1:27:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 1:27:03David Imel?

  On YouTube so they can delete them later, but the new album is coming out hopefully in September or October.

• 1:27:10Andrew Manganelli?

  It might've gotten delayed because um, Hollow Knight Silk songs coming out in September.

• 1:27:13David Imel?

  That's true. They're like, uh, people can't listen to things and play things at the same time.

• 1:27:17Speaker 01

  Some GTA six.

• 1:27:18Andrew Manganelli?

  All right. One more quick thing. YouTube hype is launched. Ellis alluded to this earlier. We talked about this about a year ago, I think it was, is when it got announced. But it's out. Super quick TLDR of how this works and how I've been testing it and seeing, you know, what happens is YouTube released a new feature called hyping a video. And essentially what it does is for channels that are between 500 and 500,000 subscribers, you can basically do something that's like a super like, if you want to call it that.

• 1:27:52David Imel?

  That's why people are hyping waveform?

• 1:27:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 1:27:54David Imel?

  We're still not at 500.

• 1:27:55Andrew Manganelli?

  We are not at 500. Yeah, we're at 475. So they can hype us. It's the only KVHD channel that can get, I guess, clips also, but um. Actually Clips.

• 1:28:03David Imel?

  Clips has more, yeah.

• 1:28:04Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it does, yeah. But um, so what it does is it's supposed to help boost videos of smaller creators better. So helping get into like the recommended feed. And there's also a new hype tab, since we lost trending. There you have the hype tab. So it's basically like mini trending, I guess, but user generated now instead of YouTube generated.

• 1:28:27David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:28:27Andrew Manganelli?

  And really quick, the way you do it is, I think it's really hard to find for one. If you're on mobile and you go into the app, when you scroll under your video where the comment section is, if you swipe the comments to the left, which I never knew you could do, there's the hype button. It will also pop up if you click the like button, and then it will auto swap to show the hyping. You can do it three times a week. When you do that, the video gets points. I don't know how points really, I guess the only way is it looks at points and then in the leaderboard in the hype page, then those points are, you know, how you get to the top tallied up.

• 1:29:06Andrew Manganelli?

  It is different because if you hype a video with less subscribers in that range, they will get more points. So when I tested it, hyping waveform got, gave it 50 points. I hyped a video from a channel that had like 13,000 subscribers and it got like 1,200 points.

• 1:29:22David Imel?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:29:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Apparently you can get up to 7,500 points in one hype for like a 500 sub channel. But obviously, you know, 400,000 people hyping 50 points on a video is gonna, you know, that's how to counteract it.

• 1:29:35David Imel?

  Right, right, right. That makes sense.

• 1:29:37Andrew Manganelli?

  And yeah, videos need to be less than seven days old. You can get a badge if you are the biggest hyper of the month.

• 1:29:47David Imel?

  Hype beast?

• 1:29:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, if you're the hype beast of the month. It's monthly based. And you can hype the same video all three times.

• 1:29:54David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:29:54Andrew Manganelli?

  That's what I saw. But um.

• 1:29:55David Imel?

  Interesting.

• 1:29:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, we'll see how much this helps. I'm all for helping smaller creators.

• 1:30:01David Imel?

  Like waveform?

• 1:30:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Like wave, yeah, waveform, small creators.

• 1:30:05Speaker 03

  This is how I found out we didn't have 500,000 subscribers.

• 1:30:08David Imel?

  We're, we're almost there, actually.

• 1:30:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Our views are killer for our subscriber count. But um, if you want to hype us, that's cool, but probably go hype some smaller channels. They could use it way more. You can also pay for hypes. Apparently you could just pay, you can type in how many points you want to give them. And it'll give you how much you want to pay or something.

• 1:30:27David Imel?

  It all seemed very organic until this moment.

• 1:30:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, yeah, but YouTube would love for you to game it because at best you might get in recommended. And either way, you pay Google money. So why wouldn't they love this? It probably, instead of buying hype, see if that channel has like a Patreon or a donation page because that would help them way more probably.

• 1:30:49David Imel?

  And then most of the money goes to them.

• 1:30:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:30:52David Imel?

  Yeah, true.

• 1:30:53Andrew Manganelli?

  But yeah, that's the hype feature.

• 1:30:55David Imel?

  Okay. Who are you guys gonna hype this week?

• 1:30:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Waveform.

• 1:30:57Speaker 01

  I'm hyping us. I'm definitely hyping us.

• 1:31:00David Imel?

  I like that.

• 1:31:01Speaker 01

  Then I'll be a hype beast.

• 1:31:03David Imel?

  Hey.

• 1:31:05Speaker 01

  Well, speaking of YouTube features, there's only one more place to go on the Waveform Podcast this week. And that's trivia.

• 1:31:17Speaker 03

  Guys, question number one. Hasselblad cameras were founded in Gothenburg, Sweden. I spelled Sweden wrong in the sheet. That's really funny. That's, how did I even do that? Gothenburg, Sweden in 1841. What is the farthest away place from Gothenburg that a Hasselblad camera has ever taken a picture?

• 1:31:41Speaker 03

  And I'll give you a hint.

• 1:31:42David Imel?

  Our studio.

• 1:31:43Speaker 01

  Oh, no hint.

• 1:31:43Speaker 03

  This is no hint.

• 1:31:45Andrew Manganelli?

  I feel like his hint was gonna be, it's not the thing you're all writing down right now.

• 1:31:48David Imel?

  You can do it if you want. Give him a hint.

• 1:31:50Speaker 03

  This is not a geography question.

• 1:31:55David Imel?

  Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

• 1:31:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Dang it.

• 1:31:59Speaker 04

  That's a really good hint.

• 1:32:00David Imel?

  That's a great hint. Fantastic hint, Ellis.

• 1:32:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:32:03David Imel?

  That's okay.

• 1:32:05David Imel?

  I'm glad.

• 1:32:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Was that what you wrote originally? Oh, you just screwed David real hard because I know, did you write Antarctica?

• 1:32:13David Imel?

  I wrote Antarctica, yeah.

• 1:32:14Speaker 03

  You guys both wrote Antarctica and then changed it. I'm sorry, David.

• 1:32:17David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:18Speaker 01

  It's the rising blue, the blue marble on the moon.

• 1:32:21Speaker 03

  The answer is the moon. Damn it, I thought that question was really good. And then I sold it out.

• 1:32:26David Imel?

  It's okay.

• 1:32:26Speaker 03

  Stupid.

• 1:32:29David Imel?

  It's all right.

• 1:32:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, borrow your red pen. This green one is just very hard to read.

• 1:32:33David Imel?

  I knew it. Yeah. Okay.

• 1:32:36Speaker 03

  Guys, question number two, Price is Right rules, but with time instead of money. And money and, you know, money is, time is money and money is.

• 1:32:43David Imel?

  Time is right.

• 1:32:43Speaker 03

  I'm so hungry. Guys, YouTube hype, no, YouTube hype, we talked about. The quiz question is about YouTube annotations. I'm specifically wondering, in what year did YouTube wipe annotations off of every video that had ever been uploaded?

• 1:33:01Speaker 03

  Can't believe I ruined my own stupid question, stupid it, I shouldn't.

• 1:33:06David Imel?

  It's okay.

• 1:33:07Andrew Manganelli?

  I thought the question originally was gonna be like, what's the farthest away a Hasselblad's ever been, like, built? And I thought it was gonna be like, zero miles. They have only ever been built in wherever Sweden.

• 1:33:20Speaker 03

  Also, in the, in the Wave from Trivia doc, Adam said, with my, with my moon question, he goes, "LOL, nice, good wording." And then I just responded, "I love you."

• 1:33:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Now you can respond, "I screwed it up."

• 1:33:33David Imel?

  I sold.

• 1:33:34Speaker 03

  All right, what do we got? All right.

• 1:33:37David Imel?

  Oh, Marquez and I are the same person.

• 1:33:40Speaker 03

  All right, so Marquez and David, you both put.

• 1:33:45David Imel?

  2015.

• 1:33:46Speaker 03

  All right, which is not over. However, Andrew, you put.

• 1:33:51Andrew Manganelli?

  2018.

• 1:33:52Speaker 03

  Which is not right either, but it's still under, which means.

• 1:33:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I was gonna write 2020.

• 1:33:58Speaker 03

  That would have been over.

• 1:33:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, I was close, I took my.

• 1:34:01Speaker 03

  The answer is January of 2019.

• 1:34:04David Imel?

  Wow.

• 1:34:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Wow, I remember there was still someone I worked here, so I went off of that.

• 1:34:09David Imel?

  Oh, that's good, wow. Yeah, I was thinking like, by the end, by the time I left college, they must've got rid of it, but I guess not. I was thinking by the time Marquez left college, they must've got rid of it.

• 1:34:18Speaker 04

  I was about to leave college, basically.

• 1:34:21Speaker 03

  All right, you know what that means? With our score update, Marquez, in second place.

• 1:34:26David Imel?

  Carrying the.

• 1:34:27Speaker 03

  With two points.

• 1:34:29David Imel?

  Oh.

• 1:34:30Speaker 03

  David, also in second place, with two points.

• 1:34:34David Imel?

  All right. Not bad.

• 1:34:35Speaker 03

  And Andrew, carrying the one, in first place, with three points.

• 1:34:45Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:34:47David Imel?

  Hey. You made us, you made us cut it when I said that.

• 1:34:51Speaker 03

  I'm cutting that. No, that's, that's, that's getting bleeped. Don't worry. Guys, Waveform is produced by Adam Molina, Ellis Robyn, and today, Miles Somerville, who we never really addressed being here.

• 1:35:03Andrew Manganelli?

  No, we did. After not addressing him multiple times.

• 1:35:06David Imel?

  Yeah, whatever.

• 1:35:07Speaker 04

  I like it better that way.

• 1:35:09Speaker 03

  Waveform is also part of the Vox Media Podcast Network, and our intro outro music is made by Vain.

• 1:35:16Speaker 04

  Sil.

• 1:35:17Andrew Manganelli?

  I like the person honking in the background.

• 1:35:19David Imel?

  Sil.

• 1:35:20Speaker 04

  Vain honk honk, Sil.

• 1:35:22David Imel?

  Honk honk.

• 1:35:22Speaker 03

  Sil!

• 1:35:25David Imel?

  Bingo. Can you do the bingo, son?

• 1:35:42Speaker 03

  I don't cut that.

• 1:35:46David Imel?

  Life is all about making decisions. Sometimes you make questionable ones, like buying a new TV that's too big for the wall because the electronics store employee was

• 1:35:55Speaker 04

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• 1:36:17Speaker 04

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