James L. Brooks (director and producer)

James L. Brooks (Ella McCay, The Simpsons, Taxi) is an Emmy, Golden Globe, and Academy Award-winning screenwriter, director, and producer. James joins the Armchair Expert to discuss being an industrious high school reporter interviewing Louis Armstrong and Anne Bancroft, his lucky break as a studio page bringing Edward R. Murrow coffee, and co-creating the Mary Tyler Moore Show with Alan Burns. James and Dax talk about why there’s no better job in the world than on a television show that’s working, seeing Andy Kaufman perform as the vile Tony Clifton for the first time, and that he thinks you go legally insane when directing. James explains what it was like giving notes to Jack Nicholson, starting The Simpsons which is still the longest-running scripted show in history, and what makes a contemporary female heroine in his new screwball comedy Ella McCay. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ http://www.wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert, experts on expert. I'm Jan Shepherd.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 0:06Dax Shepard?

  And I'm joined by Monica Padman. We have an absolute titan of show business today. James L. Brooks. He is an Academy Award winning director, producer and screenwriter. He wrote and directed As Good As It Gets, Terms of Endearment, Broadcast News, The Mary Tyler Moore Show, The Simpsons.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 0:26Dax Shepard?

  One of the creators of The Simpsons.

• 0:28Speaker 01

  And he helped Bottle Rocket.

• 0:30Dax Shepard?

  He produced Bottle Rocket, which was a mess when he first heard it, as we'll learn. He has a new movie in theaters December 12th, Ella McKay. This was a delight. Barry Norman Lear-esque, created like a real genre of TV that persists today.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  He broke a lot of barriers.

• 0:47Dax Shepard?

  He did, he did.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  Barriers. He broke through a lot of barriers.

• 0:51Dax Shepard?

  He broke things. Please enjoy James L. Brooks. We get support from Quince.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  I have to say, I am so ready for fall. I want sweaters. I've been craving a true crisp morning where I actually need a jacket. I can't wait.

• 1:07Dax Shepard?

  I'm fully there. The second it dips below 70, I'm like, this is my season. Give me the layers, give me the boots, give me a reason to wear something other than a T-shirt. And honestly, that's why I love Quince, because fall is when your wardrobe actually has to show up. And everything at Quince is 50 to 80% less than similar brands. We're talking 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters, starting at $60.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  $60, $60 for cashmere that you'd expect from a luxury brand without the luxury price tag. It's amazing. Gets me every time. It really shouldn't be real, but it is because they go straight to the factories. They skip the middlemen and they just hand you the savings. The stuff isn't trendy. It's the kind of pieces you grab over and over because they work every time.

• 1:47Dax Shepard?

  The 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters for me are it. When I look at Steve McQueen, this man owned a couple of sweaters he wore all the time and he looks iconic.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  It's a uniform. And Quince isn't just about the clothes. They have hotel quality bedding, cookware, bath essentials, thoughtfully designed furniture. You can really go there and outfit your entire apartment or house. So if you're in need of any kind of fall refresh at home, too, same quality, same attention to detail for every corner of your life.

• 2:16Dax Shepard?

  Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show. We get support from AG1. Fall is that time when your body and mind are getting ready for the winter. You're settling in, bracing for the cold. Your body's already running a deficit from the shorter days and broken sleep patterns. You don't want a nutrient deficit stacked on top of that, too.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  That's where your AG1 routine earns its spot. It's not fixing your sleep or your alarm time. It's giving your body what it needs so the dark mornings don't tank you before you even start. One scoop, cold water every morning before anything else.

• 3:04Dax Shepard?

  AG1 Next Gen has 75 plus ingredients, vitamins, minerals, pre and probiotics, superfoods, backed by four separate gold standard clinical trials. Key nutrient levels improved with three months of consistent use.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  That's the part people miss. It's not a one day fix. It's what happens when you stay consistent.

• 3:22Dax Shepard?

  It's an easy, everyday thing. I've added it to my morning routine and I'm going to tell you, I actually love the taste of it. It's like Pavlovian. I drink it and I know, mm, I'm going to get that little vitamin buzz.

• 3:33Speaker 01

  Well, that's also the thing. When you do it first thing in the morning, you already feel kind of self-esteem because you're like, I already did something good for myself.

• 3:40Dax Shepard?

  Yes. Go to drinkag1.com/dax and for a limited time, get a free immunity bundle, including a bottle of omega three fish oil and a bottle of vitamin D3K2 with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1.com/dax. And after checkout, be sure to let them know that Armchair Expert sent you.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  How you doing?

• 4:22Dax Shepard?

  So good, how are you?

• 4:24Speaker 02

  Pleasure.

• 4:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, great to meet you, Dad. Am I free to call you Jim?

• 4:27Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 4:27Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great. Are you someone who's perpetually early?

• 4:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I try and be on time. I used to be the reverse, and then changed my act.

• 4:34Dax Shepard?

  Because someone forced you to, or you just did some soul searching?

• 4:37Speaker 02

  I was working with an actor who I have to remain nameless, who was always late.

• 4:41Dax Shepard?

  Sure, sure.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  Always late. I flew and he said he'd pick me up. "No, don't pick me up, I'll get there." "Don't pick me up, don't..." Two hours late waiting there. Oh.

• 4:49Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 4:50Speaker 02

  This is a big star where I'm really... I think I finally figured out that it was a sort of social distancing thing, because every interaction would begin with him apologizing for 20 minutes. Oh, interesting.

• 5:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, what a time suck. It's like, "You're late and you gotta apologize for so long. The day's gone, let's try this again tomorrow." So you were born in Brooklyn in 1940, but how quickly do we move to New Jersey?

• 5:14Speaker 02

  I was two, I think. So that's my only memory, really.

• 5:18Dax Shepard?

  How far from the city were you in New Jersey?

• 5:21Speaker 02

  We were up a hill that was directly across from 72nd Street in New York City, where I ended up getting an apartment one day. And as a kid, I was looking across, down the hill, at that all the time.

• 5:33Dax Shepard?

  And then at one point, you were looking back at home.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  It was almost, if you drew a straight line.

• 5:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 5:38Speaker 02

  And that hit me one day.

• 5:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, did it fill you with satisfaction?

• 5:42Speaker 02

  It was emotional, because I was not in a great environment and I was not a happy kid.

• 5:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I get to talk to people with a lot of childhood stuff, myself included, but yours is really up there.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  Publicly so.

• 5:53Dax Shepard?

  Dad leaves mom the second she's pregnant with you?

• 5:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:57Dax Shepard?

  I think it explains your career in a big way. And maybe you'll agree with me or not agree with me, but I was raised by a single mother, who was a gangster, who was working nonstop and building a career. And I was in the shadow of a very impressive woman. And I think it helped me throughout my life have an appropriate amount of respect for women. And I'm just wondering if you think being raised by just your mom, watching her kill herself and all that, played a role ultimately?

• 6:25Speaker 02

  Well, it was my mom and my sister was eight years older than I.

• 6:29Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  So she was saddled with me quite a bit. It's ever the regret of my life. That my mom couldn't see some good things happen to me.

• 6:38Dax Shepard?

  She was 22 when she died?

• 6:40Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no.

• 6:41Dax Shepard?

  I mean, I'm sorry, you were 22 when she died?

• 6:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:43Dax Shepard?

  Obviously, she's gonna add both of you with an eight-year gap.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, my sister had become divorced, so she moved home. I had a job as an usher in New York that I commuted to after high school. And between the three of us, life became a little easier economically.

• 6:58Dax Shepard?

  Would the both of them contribute?

• 7:00Speaker 02

  She worked six days a week, two nights a week.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  What was she doing?

• 7:03Speaker 02

  She sold children's clothes.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 7:06Dax Shepard?

  And your dad was a furniture salesman?

• 7:08Speaker 02

  Furniture salesman.

• 7:09Dax Shepard?

  Do you think you were imbued with that sense of like, go get them? Walk into a room, win them over? Was that stuff trickling down to you?

• 7:16Speaker 02

  Maybe the opposite, but my father was more than a salesman. He was a T.O. man, takeover. That means if somebody was walking out of the store without buying, he'd stop them at the door and try and get them back. So that's the kind of salesman he was.

• 7:28Dax Shepard?

  That's hardcore. They've already declared they don't want this.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  So he was in your life still?

• 7:35Speaker 02

  At that point, yes. He left when I was maybe 13.

• 7:38Dax Shepard?

  Now, did you have any contact with him? Did he get to observe any of this stuff? Or did he observe from afar?

• 7:44Speaker 02

  He was a bad guy.

• 7:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you described kind of being lonely in that period. You were by yourself quite a bit, I imagine?

• 7:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 7:54Dax Shepard?

  All right, let's break this down. Is this stuff uncomfortable for you? Yeah, tell me, tell me, is this uncomfortable?

• 7:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:00Dax Shepard?

  It is, yeah, okay.

• 8:01Speaker 02

  No, I like, this is my rap, I'm right at home.

• 8:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 8:05Dax Shepard?

  I just think all these seeds are there. In my loneliness, I decided to write. Writing was a world in which I had total control and power and say over what everyone did. That was a relief, I love that. Different things bring different people to writing for different reasons, and I'm just curious, how much of that do you think is in the soup?

• 8:22Speaker 02

  I was in high school, and I was the bullied kid.

• 8:26Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 8:28Speaker 02

  As a matter of fact, at a certain point, a long time ago, but I got into thinking about the guy who bullied me so much when I was in high school, and I made an effort to find out what happened to him. Federal judge.

• 8:38Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really? I was expecting worse for him.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  I know, that's what you want.

• 8:43Dax Shepard?

  Some bullies are kind of industrious, I guess.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  I mean, I guess in some ways, he's still a bully.

• 8:50Speaker 02

  No, I was looking for much worse.

• 8:51Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes, perhaps the turnaround salesman that gets people at the door. T O, what did you call it?

• 8:57Speaker 02

  Takeover.

• 8:58Dax Shepard?

  Takeover, takeover. You were pursuing writing and you were writing comedy stuff when you were young and you were submitting?

• 9:05Speaker 02

  I wrote for the school newspaper. We were a high school of 300 and I was very resourceful in getting exclusive interviews with very big celebrities.

• 9:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, Louis Armstrong?

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 9:14Speaker 02

  And that's what I always say, blessed moment in my life. And I was alone with him backstage as a kid reporter. I asked him a question that he hadn't been asked. How do you take care of your lips?

• 9:26Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 9:28Speaker 02

  And he lit up and he brought out drawers of stuff. Turned out to be a major part of his prep for performing.

• 9:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, right, trumpeters are neurotic about their mouth, right? It's everything.

• 9:39Speaker 02

  There's a drawer full of.

• 9:40Dax Shepard?

  Like ointments and topicals?

• 9:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 9:43Dax Shepard?

  Oh my God, was he applying any of them in front of you?

• 9:45Speaker 02

  He was delighted to show his kid.

• 9:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. How did you get in touch with him?

• 9:50Speaker 02

  I don't know how I did it. I did letters. I somehow got myself backstage as a high school kid with Ann Bancroft, who was then just crazy, the gorgeous toaster Broadway. I was trying to flirt with her. I think she was in her twenties at the time, I'm a high school kid or something like that. She was very nice. I saw her standing in a circle. I second acted, you know what second acting is?

• 10:11Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 10:12Speaker 02

  I worked as an usher and as I walked home, this is my after school job. I walked through the theater district in New York. And I walked in at precisely the time that they had the break between first and second act. You look for a stub and you sneak into the theater and you go to the worst seats. You don't go to a hit. So I saw the second act of everything.

• 10:31Dax Shepard?

  Okay, you got to sneak in and get in a free second act.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  Were you very enamored by celebrities?

• 10:36Speaker 02

  Specific ones, I mean, when I saw Bancroft, she was talking to, I think, Mike Nichols and I was shaking.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:44Speaker 02

  And I went over to her and I'm seventeen years old or sixteen, seventeen years old. Miss Bancroft, I have this play. Oh, wow. She said, send it to me. So I, of course, dropped it off and I got a note from her. I guess it was a letter. I don't understand your play. I'm sorry. Oh, my God. I don't understand. I'm sorry, I don't know why. Oh, wow. But if you're ever in the neighborhood of such and such theater and want to talk to me, I'm there. So it was this amazing thing.

• 11:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 11:13Speaker 02

  So it was explosive for me.

• 11:15Dax Shepard?

  When you came to know Cameron Crowe many years later, did you find that shared history endearing to you? That he had had that similar, well, super young, working at Rolling?

• 11:24Speaker 02

  He was a vunderkin. He was a hit reporter for Rolling Stone when he was fifteen years old.

• 11:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure you were the hit of your high school, if you're a security.

• 11:33Speaker 02

  No, everybody resented it because there'd always be a picture of the high school kid with the celebrity.

• 11:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  So my picture was in the paper all the time.

• 11:41Dax Shepard?

  Sure, sure.

• 11:41Speaker 02

  The athletes hated it and their picture wasn't in the paper all the time.

• 11:44Dax Shepard?

  You and that federal judge.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, really.

• 11:45Dax Shepard?

  This son of a bitch did it again. He's a Louis Armstrong. So you do end up going to NYU after high school, but then you leave because you have a job at CBS News?

• 11:56Speaker 02

  No, because I screwed up because it was the first time where I was happy. High school had been awful and somehow I started to have a normal kid's life in college. And it was because there was a fraternity that had a townhouse and was on campus and I got in there. And then it was better than anything I'd known. I had a lot of friends and girlfriend, so I just didn't go to class.

• 12:19Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 12:20Speaker 02

  You know, it was awful. That's what happened.

• 12:21Dax Shepard?

  You were having too much fun to go to class.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was having my first fun.

• 12:25Dax Shepard?

  I'm glad you prioritize that.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  My sister got me a job as an usher. It was my first lucky break and usually you had to be a college graduate at that time to be anything because that was the first foot in the door and then they started to theoretically promote you. Yeah. And then I got another great lucky break because they use, they call them pages. And we filled in for notches above us jobs when the notches above us job went on vacation. And I got a notches above me fill-in job. As a copy boy at CBS News.

• 12:57Dax Shepard?

  Through the news.

• 12:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, and the guy never came back. That was a big break, so I got that job I could never have gotten any other way.

• 13:04Dax Shepard?

  And then you are a full-time employed copywriter for CBS News?

• 13:08Speaker 02

  I'm just cleaning out the machines. You're looking at somebody who brought Edward R. Murrow coffee, so.

• 13:12Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow, wow, wow, wow.

• 13:15Dax Shepard?

  You're like a magnet to celebrities. I know. When did you start writing there?

• 13:19Speaker 02

  I was promoted to a news writer. I had gotten over my fears, gotten over the hump. For some reason, I was afraid I'd end up selling women's shoes. I mean, I had an active fear of, you know, like you have a fear of insects or something like that.

• 13:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Was there a popular play where the protagonist sold women? That's like a trope. I mean, obviously, Al Bundy ended up doing it, and that was a trope.

• 13:40Speaker 02

  Wow, maybe, I don't know.

• 13:41Dax Shepard?

  I think there's a trope about selling women's shoes. It is very specific. We have a friend who sold women's shoes. Yeah, but he loved it because he has a foot fetish.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  Why?

• 13:51Dax Shepard?

  Because he had a foot fetish, or still has a foot fetish. We don't know if it started, it might have started. It started. Yeah, he worked for his dad's shoe place in downtown LA, and lo and behold, now he has a foot fetish.

• 14:02Speaker 02

  Tough job, honestly. It's a very tough job.

• 14:05Dax Shepard?

  How on earth do you decide to leave the security of that job to come to LA in, what, 1965?

• 14:15Speaker 02

  I was in love with a woman, and she and her roommate decided that they were going to move to California. And they did, and I quit.

• 14:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, scary.

• 14:25Speaker 02

  Somebody I had known at CBS News had left and gone to do documentaries in California, and he gave me a job. Then I got laid off from that job after six months. My wife was supporting me for a while, and I was out of work for about six months, and then I got my first writing job.

• 14:40Dax Shepard?

  You met Alan Burns at a party, is that a part of the truth?

• 14:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, he had five shows on the air, The Monsters was his, some shows.

• 14:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 14:48Speaker 02

  And I met him at a party where we were grubby documentarians, and it was New Year's Eve, and he came in from some fancy thing, and he was wearing a tuxedo, and he's a great-looking guy.

• 14:58Dax Shepard?

  Looked wealthy.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  A beautiful human. Somehow, I ended up saying, "I want to write," and he got me a chance to write a show. It was My Mother, the Car.

• 15:07Dax Shepard?

  Right, right, right, right, your first writing job.

• 15:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:09Dax Shepard?

  But that turned into you wrote episodes of The Andy Griffith Show, My Three Sons.

• 15:14Speaker 02

  We won.

• 15:15Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 15:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:16Dax Shepard?

  And then that slowly snowballs into you creating Room 211?

• 15:21Speaker 02

  Room 222.

• 15:22Dax Shepard?

  Okay, and that's? 1970, 1969.

• 15:26Speaker 02

  68, 69, somewhere in there.

• 15:28Dax Shepard?

  Now, this show's kinda shockingly out of its time in a lot of ways. It had only the second black lead character on a TV show ever.

• 15:36Speaker 02

  And the first to have more than one.

• 15:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and they tried to talk you out of that at some point?

• 15:40Speaker 02

  It was a tough sale. There's this guy, Gene Reynolds, who was a very big director, producer, and a ferociously ethical guy. So they tried to say, the pilot episode I wrote after so much research, because he was a big research guy.

• 15:53Dax Shepard?

  He's the guy who taught you this technique?

• 15:55Speaker 02

  Which had stuck with me, insisted on it. Hey, I did it, I did it, I did it. I went to the high school, I hung with the teacher. Go back, go back, go back, go back, go back, go back. A lot, so that what I thought would be a week of my life became months of my life. And I'm glad it stuck.

• 16:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, what specifically was revealed in that process that you found so useful?

• 16:13Speaker 02

  Authenticity. You've unconsciously dug deeper by showing up again and again and again. It starts to be, oh, that's interesting to you. Take it in. You get it just by going back.

• 16:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you carried that forward through all your projects. When you're thinking of approaching something, time is such a valuable commodity. How much time are you building in for that research? And is that ever cumbersome?

• 16:40Speaker 02

  It's great. You enjoy it. You step out of your life, you know?

• 16:43Dax Shepard?

  But you did 112 episodes of that show, I think?

• 16:46Speaker 02

  And it won an Emmy for Best New Show. And because of this Gene Reynolds, it was the real deal. He wanted to get it right. He put the whip on us to get it right. So it was just a break getting mentored by somebody like that.

• 16:59Dax Shepard?

  And then next you go on in 1970 to create Mary Tyler Moore Show.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  Co-create with Alan Burns.

• 17:07Dax Shepard?

  The nice gentleman from the New Year's Eve. The dapper man. The dapper, successful man. This show really deserves an examination. I guess I don't even think I realized, because I'm still five years from being born. So I didn't grow up watching it.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  Or excuse.

• 17:22Dax Shepard?

  Okay, thank you, thank you, thank you. That was the first ever female lead that wasn't dependent on a man. That was like an independent, employed.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 17:31Dax Shepard?

  Again, back to mom or where this comes from, her older sister. This is kind of some pioneering stuff you're doing.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  Before this, the great comedy on the air, the thing where you say, oh, there can be that kind of quality was the Dick Van Dyke Show.

• 17:44Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 17:45Speaker 02

  Which won the Emmy, all the Emmys every year for ever and ever. It was Carl Reiner and it was Sheldon Leonard and it was really everybody's bible. I mean, you just were in awe.

• 17:55Dax Shepard?

  A lot of famous writers on that show, too.

• 17:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were just in awe of the show. And then she had an on the air commitment from CBS and strangely, they gave us the shot.

• 18:05Dax Shepard?

  And was that embraced immediately by Mary Tyler Moore?

• 18:09Speaker 02

  Yes, the network didn't want us.

• 18:11Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  It was sort of amazing because it's an infamous story, but when we went to pitch and we pitched through a semi-circle of executives, we had come in with the idea that Mary be divorced and she had to build a new life. One of these eight guys, the guy, the programming guy, said, there are three things that the public doesn't like: divorce, Jews, and men with mustaches.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 18:34Dax Shepard?

  What a list.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 18:36Speaker 02

  Looking at me, who had a mustache and is a Jew.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  As he said it, it just sounds surreal. It's happened.

• 18:42Dax Shepard?

  Were you divorced yet? Maybe you were three out of three. I was gonna say you were two out of three, but maybe you were three out of three.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  He came from divorce, so he experienced it.

• 18:50Dax Shepard?

  Wow, that feels very specific to you.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  It does.

• 18:54Speaker 02

  Yes, and we were asked to leave the room and Grant stayed and he came out and he looked pretty angry and he said, let's go. And two or three years later, we found out they had ordered him to fire us and he said, no.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 19:05Dax Shepard?

  So, Mary Tyler Moore Show has this epic seven-year run. You guys get nominated for Emmys. Do you win a Peabody for this show? Is this the first?

• 19:15Speaker 02

  I'm not sure.

• 19:16Dax Shepard?

  We're obsessed with the Peabody.

• 19:17Speaker 02

  I do.

• 19:18Dax Shepard?

  You've got a couple of them, I think.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  I'm sure you won for that, if it exists. I don't know how long it's been around, the Peabody.

• 19:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he racked up some Peabodies. I just feel like this is maybe the first one.

• 19:29Dax Shepard?

  Did you have any awareness that what you were doing was unique as far as writing a female-driven show? Did you have a sense of that? Or did it just feel like, this is any other show and I'm not even really thinking of it as anything unique?

• 19:40Speaker 02

  You know, I came from a newsroom.

• 19:42Dax Shepard?

  And you said it in a newsroom.

• 19:43Speaker 02

  The character of her boss was pretty much based on somebody who was sort of a legendary editor. So there was some personal writing in it for me.

• 19:50Speaker 01

  It's scary to take on, I think, writing for a woman at that time and a very strong character we didn't normally see. Was it scary or no? You guys were just like, no, this is normal.

• 20:01Speaker 02

  It was a ball.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I bet.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  It was thrilling. And Grant at that time was the vice president of a studio, so he could not knowingly participate in it. He couldn't really talk to us because he'd be crossing some line someplace to really do it. So we didn't have a boss. We didn't have anybody to answer to for that moment. We need somebody's approval finally. But not even that, because she had an on-the-air commitment. It was amazing. And we were innocent, so it was even better.

• 20:28Dax Shepard?

  It's fun to work on a hit show as well that's getting recognized too, right?

• 20:32Speaker 02

  There's no better job in the world than working on a television show that's working, you know, because you get community. You can't quite get into movies. The movie I just finished, it was fantastic relationship with everybody. It really was great. But when you have a series, babies get born, people get married, you're all growing up together.

• 20:49Dax Shepard?

  I did six years on a show and it's like the happiest work experience of my life.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  Best job.

• 20:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, watching people get married and have kids, all those things, really being a part of their life. And it has the illusion of security like the rest of it doesn't. So you at least know you're going there 22 times this year. And then hopefully next time, it's a coveted role to have. And then you have some spinoffs from that. You do Rhoda and then you do Lou Grant. That's the one that won a Peabody. Now I have my notes. You got your first Peabody for Lou Grant. I want to add, so Mayor Taylor Moore is doing this thing where you guys are tackling kind of popular...

• 21:25Dax Shepard?

  Important issues within the framework of a sitcom. Norman Lear becomes ultimately very recognized as doing that as well. But you are doing that with The Mary Tyler Moore Show.

• 21:37Speaker 02

  As the whole notion of women is changing. The timing was exquisite.

• 21:42Dax Shepard?

  Women are hitting the workforce and record numbers and divorce is high.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  I have deja vu because the movie that I just finished also has this central character. Also, her name is in the title, Alan McKay. It's so crazy that I hadn't quite gotten that.

• 21:56Dax Shepard?

  The connective tissue between those.

• 21:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, full circle. We're inventing a paradigm right now, which is like, we're gonna talk about some serious stuff in a comedy. That's just rare and unique. Were you aware of, oh, this is new? Or it was just happening and in retrospect, you're like, oh, I guess we did create something.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  We followed All in the Family, which was breaking down every door and everything that was revolutionizing. So we got to be the show after the show breaking down every door.

• 22:23Dax Shepard?

  Okay, okay.

• 22:24Speaker 02

  We walked in the door.

• 22:25Dax Shepard?

  Okay, the vanguard had come through. Now, this one, I gotta say, just because now this is the first show I'm old enough to consume and love. I would have thought this show is on for 10 years, which is Taxi. Do you think Taxi is a little bit like Shawshank Redemption where people think it was bigger or more successful than it was?

• 22:44Speaker 02

  We followed a formulaic comedy that was the number one show. So we got seen. Emmys came our way. We still have Zoom reunions. It was that championship season. People looked in the rearview mirror and said, that was the time of my life. We knew it was the time of our life then.

• 23:02Dax Shepard?

  That's lucky. We didn't wait for a rearview mirror. We relished it, man. It was great. Yeah, I want to know the things that made it great. On the outside, it looks like the most obvious thing to me is you took all this cultural capital you had acquired and you used it to assemble really the craziest cast maybe ever on TV at that point, or definitely of your shows, right?

• 23:24Speaker 02

  I wanted to do men, seven years. I wanted to do men.

• 23:27Dax Shepard?

  And blue collar was a goal as well.

• 23:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then there was a magazine article in New York Magazine about a small taxi company in New York. And the article. Pointed out that they all had Johnny Tomorrow dreams. They wanted to be this, they wanted to be an actor. And there was something, you know, Eugene O'Neill about it.

• 23:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  We went to the research thing. So I'm in a cab company and I'm there for a day. I was just there for 14 hours. They knew I was there for research. And the guy who ran it, the manager, who was in the cage dispatching taxis.

• 23:57Dax Shepard?

  Danny DeVito?

• 23:58Speaker 02

  The real guy, a cab driver, was slipping him money to get a clean cab, a cab in good condition. The whole character came from that.

• 24:05Dax Shepard?

  Sure, he's like, yeah, he's sleazy on the grift.

• 24:08Speaker 02

  So that was just, God bless it, you know, just, just landing in your lap. And then some of them, when they got off work, they were still hanging around. I didn't know why they were hanging around. And then this guy came in and all the others, the article had been about they all wanted to be something else. And when I asked him, and he was charismatic, you could see the buzz when he came in. And he says, me, I want to be a cab driver. That became what made our hero a hero.

• 24:33Dax Shepard?

  Ah, he wanted to be there. Danny DeVito, had he been in stuff, is that a discovery?

• 24:40Speaker 02

  It's a famous audition.

• 24:41Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it is?

• 24:42Speaker 02

  Because we were looking and looking and looking. If you know the show, you know the character. For his audition, he came in and the first thing he did was throw the script on the floor and say, who wrote this shit?

• 24:51Dax Shepard?

  Oh, great.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  And we fell on the floor and he was the guy.

• 24:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Danny DeVito, before you've seen Danny DeVito. Oh. And what about, I mean, Andy Kaufman, maybe the craziest comedian of all time, having to show up on set at a certain time and be this thing predictably. How did you come to get him?

• 25:10Speaker 02

  It's hard to explain a unique guy for people to imagine what he was. But I went to a club where he was performing and I'm waiting to see him. And there's this awful comic who's on stage, not only unfunny, but vile and insulting people in the audience.

• 25:25Dax Shepard?

  Is his name Tony?

• 25:26Speaker 02

  Tony Clifton.

• 25:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh, you knew that? How'd you know that?

• 25:31Dax Shepard?

  You'll hear one.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, okay, okay.

• 25:34Dax Shepard?

  Incredible, so you got to see Tony Clifton perform.

• 25:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, and just offending and people hooting.

• 25:40Dax Shepard?

  He's lucky if he doesn't get beat up onstage.

• 25:42Speaker 02

  And his manager comes up and whispers and says, "That's Andy." And Andy was in all this thing, and it's just mind-blowingly brilliant.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  No.

• 25:52Speaker 02

  Goes, and never gives it away. And then comes out as Andy and does Foreign Man and is hysterical.

• 25:57Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 25:58Speaker 02

  And does the things that if you Google it, you'll see what he did then.

• 26:01Dax Shepard?

  His tolerance to be hated. I just can't comprehend doing these Tony Clifton sets. And he would go occasionally on talk shows as Tony Clifton.

• 26:09Speaker 01

  But maybe that's a way to do it, because it's not him. He's putting on this disguise.

• 26:15Speaker 02

  He did Tony Clifton, and in order to be on the show, on Taxi, he said, "You have to hire Tony Clifton as well."

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 26:23Speaker 02

  You have to give him his own dressing room. So there are two dressing rooms.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 26:27Dax Shepard?

  Why were you elected to play ball? I love that you were.

• 26:30Speaker 02

  He's Andy Kaufman, man.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:36Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

• 26:42Dax Shepard?

  We get support from our sponsor, Lilly. For adults with obesity or with excess weight and weight-related medical problems, it's time to find out about Foundo or for Glee Pro. Foundo is a once-daily-prescription GLP-1 medicine used with a reduced-calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off.

• 27:08Speaker 04

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• 27:47Speaker 04

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• 28:05Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Instagram teen accounts. So, we talk a lot on this show about how the world is different now than when we were growing up, and one of the biggest differences is obviously social media. And I think a lot of people wonder, okay, what's actually being done to make it safer for teenagers?

• 28:21Speaker 01

  Which is a fair question.

• 28:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so Instagram has got something called teen accounts, and they come with automatic protections built in by default. So, anyone between 13 and 17 is automatically placed into this experience. They get age-appropriate content settings, contact limits, so that by default, only people they're already connected to can message them. And time management tools, daily time limit reminders, and also sleep mode that mutes notifications from 10:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  Sleep mode is genius.

• 28:50Dax Shepard?

  Right? And here's the thing, for anyone under 16, a parent has to give permission to change any of those settings to be less strict. The guardrails are on, and Instagram keeps building new safety features to create age-appropriate experiences for teens.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  I am really glad Instagram's helping to give parents peace of mind with teen accounts.

• 29:09Dax Shepard?

  Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at instagram.com/teenaccounts. We get support from Skims. So, Monica just informed me that she's a girl's girl, and I nodded like I knew exactly what that meant.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the girls who get it, they get it.

• 29:29Dax Shepard?

  Okay, but for those of us who are clearly not girls, walk me through it.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  Well, you know how much I love my Skims fleece joggers? Because the plush fleece is so soft, it's cozy, it's really comfortable without feeling too heavy. Well, I went to friend them, and she would not stop talking about how comfy they were. She almost didn't give them back to me, which was upsetting, but I'm a girl's girl, so I let her have it.

• 29:50Dax Shepard?

  Great, great, great.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  So the sleep sets are awesome because they are very soft and comfortable, but they're cute. If I'm in my sleep set, I feel fine about going down the street to pick up my food. I'm still looking cute, but I'm comfy and I'm cozy.

• 30:05Dax Shepard?

  Roger.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  A really fun thing to do is if you're going on vacation with your girlfriends, to get matching Skims pajamas. I've done this with Callie and it is so fun. First of all, the pics are so cute, but also it's just fun and friendship.

• 30:18Dax Shepard?

  So a girl's girl is looking out for your friends with better loungewear. I get it. Am I one of your girls now?

• 30:24Speaker 01

  You are. You and the other girlies can shop my favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcasts in the survey and be sure to select our show in the drop down menu that follows.

• 30:43Dax Shepard?

  So when he had his own dressing room?

• 30:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. Andy's seminal. He started Performance Art, I think. There was a time when he was wrestling. He wrestled women, he insulted women and then said, wrestle me, I can beat any women. Then they would really wrestle.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 30:57Speaker 02

  And then he went in a real wrestling ring and got hurt. And it was a front page story because he was known at that point.

• 31:04Dax Shepard?

  Yes, he hurt his neck and he came out in a neck brace. He went on a tour bashing the guy who hurt him.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  And then I found out it was fake. And it was on front pages.

• 31:14Dax Shepard?

  He was gonna sue the guy.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  What a live wire.

• 31:16Dax Shepard?

  And he wanted a rematch.

• 31:17Speaker 02

  If you watch the thing, it's a body slam where he's upside down and a guy holding him goes like that so that you're wincing, but when you really slow it down, you see that it was set up. You see that he stopped just short of the slam and they made the noise.

• 31:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 31:32Speaker 01

  But yeah, are you on set, like who's gonna show up today?

• 31:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, sort of. And Tony showed up with two prostitutes one day.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  Sure, yeah.

• 31:45Dax Shepard?

  Did you shoot that here or in New York?

• 31:47Speaker 02

  We shot it here. My partner at Weinberger, who Andy had told this was gonna happen. And he said, Ed, I need you to really punish me, but punish Tony when he comes in.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  And he comes in with the two prostitutes. Ed goes crazy, calls the security guards. Oh my god. Who are not in on it. Oh no. The security guards, like, almost in a cartoon, drag him and throw him out of the gate. Yeah. Where he calls Ed and said, "Thanks, that was one of the greatest."

• 32:14Dax Shepard?

  And what I just love is, like, it's for nobody but him.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:18Dax Shepard?

  What purity. Did you feel like you got to know Andy? Were there moments of sincerity?

• 32:24Speaker 02

  No, it was sort of great, because you'd go over and give him a note, and he'd do it exactly. But as you gave it to him, he'd be like, "Andy," wondering who you were and stuff like that. But then he did the note solidly.

• 32:34Dax Shepard?

  Because he stayed in lockup?

• 32:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, he did amazing work on the show.

• 32:38Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:38Speaker 02

  I mean, like, crazy.

• 32:40Dax Shepard?

  If you're a kid and you don't know about Andy Kaufman, you're watching that guy, you think that guy's real. It's a very good character.

• 32:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:45Dax Shepard?

  How exciting that you cast him.

• 32:48Speaker 02

  He came from a country that he invented a language, you know, so he talked a foreign language.

• 32:52Dax Shepard?

  He was vaguely Eastern European-ish.

• 32:54Speaker 02

  Language on the show, and so that we can make up the customs of this mythical country. Yeah. And got episodes out of it. Wow, what a gift.

• 33:03Dax Shepard?

  Okay, and then Christopher Lloyd, was he a known commodity?

• 33:07Speaker 02

  He and Danny had both been in Cuckoo's Nest.

• 33:10Dax Shepard?

  Oh, right.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  As part of that group.

• 33:12Dax Shepard?

  The most memorable scene of all the Taxi episodes that made me laugh the hardest is Jim, Christopher Lloyd's character, is having to pass the driver's license exam.

• 33:23Speaker 02

  It's the record-setting laugh. I don't know if we can render it, but basically you have to know the character who was burnt out from drugs. That was basically it.

• 33:31Dax Shepard?

  He's the dumbest guy imaginable, he shouldn't be driving a cab.

• 33:34Speaker 02

  Everything's missing, but with everything missing, he has sort of a blissful humanity and insight.

• 33:40Dax Shepard?

  Kind of a Chauncey Gardner.

• 33:41Speaker 02

  Yes, and he's a cab driver, and they find out he doesn't have a driver's license.

• 33:46Dax Shepard?

  So he has to take them to help him cheat.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  He can't, and the whole company comes and pretends they're filling out forms while he's in the desk taking the test. He says, "What does a flashing yellow light mean?" They coach him and they say, "Slow down." He says, "What does..." Oh.

• 34:01Dax Shepard?

  What?

• 34:02Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 34:02Dax Shepard?

  Does?

• 34:03Speaker 02

  This is the permutations. We went eight times, ten times. Each time, the laugh bigger than the time before. Because as you'd imagine, he's going. Going slower each time. And milking it.

• 34:14Dax Shepard?

  The last "what" is like, "Woooooah."

• 34:18Speaker 02

  The last one, and the audience, it's going like this. Yeah. And the editor says, "Cut." And I went crazy. Yeah. Because it was just, when are they gonna stop increasing their laughter? Let's find out. Let's blow it up. Yeah, I could get upset now. Yeah, exactly. I am a little upset.

• 34:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, what a thing to witness, to witness the greatest laugh in live audience ever. Oh, you must go watch it. Everyone should take five minutes and watch that. It's so delightful. And then I'll throw Tony Danza in there, too. When he walks in, he's so Tony Danza. Are you immediately like, "Oh, this is ideal."

• 34:54Speaker 02

  I don't think he'd ever acted, and he was a fighter, and I went to see him fight.

• 34:58Dax Shepard?

  No kidding?

• 34:59Speaker 02

  There was a very rough sort of boxing world guy, and he says, "Can't win, but he has a great punch. If he lands, he knocks you out." He was a middleweight.

• 35:08Dax Shepard?

  I was even in contention to act in this thing if he hadn't acted and he was boxing.

• 35:12Speaker 02

  I really believe we were looking for a boxer, because everybody had a dream in the cab company, and his was...

• 35:18Dax Shepard?

  I don't know if anyone's looked better in a wife beater than our friend Tony Danza. Boy, can you wear that tank top?

• 35:25Dax Shepard?

  Okay, now, you've had all this crazy success in television up to Taxi. What is the pull to movies? Is it a more expansive creative space? Or is it ego? Or is it both?

• 35:38Speaker 02

  I can truly say it's not ego.

• 35:41Dax Shepard?

  But for people that were not born in the 90s and have watched television have as much cachet as films, people need to understand that back then, film and television...

• 35:49Speaker 02

  At the time I got there, if you were in television, you were un-hireable in films.

• 35:53Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 35:53Speaker 02

  There was a wall up. They were contemptuous of us.

• 35:57Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:57Speaker 02

  From TV. It's so crazy how radically that has changed.

• 36:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 36:01Speaker 02

  I mean, you can't make an inch without somebody offering you a movie. It's almost impossible for you to conceive. An absolute wall. Get out of here if you're from television. And I think Ron Howard was the first one over the fence, and then I got there.

• 36:13Dax Shepard?

  So the first movie, Starting Over, Candace Bergen and Jill Kleber both get nominated for Academy Awards.

• 36:20Speaker 02

  I didn't direct that. I wrote the producer.

• 36:22Dax Shepard?

  You just wrote it?

• 36:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. Not just. I wrote it.

• 36:26Dax Shepard?

  So you really had nothing to do with that?

• 36:29Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you write that one and that gets you into the film world and the film is successful and critically adored. This kind of shocks me. The next movie's Terms of Endearment. Iconic. Again, what an insane cast. This shocks me. It took you four years to get financing for this movie? Did you have the cast already?

• 36:48Speaker 02

  No.

• 36:49Dax Shepard?

  It was a book you adapted, yeah?

• 36:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:51Dax Shepard?

  What's saying to you about that? Why was that like, oh, I'll spend four years trying to get this made?

• 36:56Speaker 02

  When I read the book, it was the second time in my life that I cried when I got to the ending. I've since.

• 37:02Dax Shepard?

  Had a couple more tears.

• 37:04Speaker 02

  Improved, improved on that.

• 37:05Dax Shepard?

  Kids will do that to you.

• 37:07Speaker 02

  The second time in my life, I cried. You're not gonna walk away. I had to do it. And it was a very tricky road because there was a movie star of decades earlier who had the rights and wanted to play the Shirley MacLaine part. She was wrong for the part.

• 37:21Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 37:21Speaker 02

  That she wanted to do.

• 37:22Dax Shepard?

  That was tricky, her hurdle.

• 37:24Speaker 02

  Well, it was just being patient. I had the most amazing time because it was actresses in their 50s. It was the part that comes along when all that shit is happening about age and all that.

• 37:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 37:37Speaker 02

  So I just had this time of sitting down with great women who had done great work.

• 37:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 37:43Speaker 02

  Almost all of them at that time. And I hadn't come to Shirley yet for some reason. And she had a super agent, I don't remember the name, but she was the reigning agent at the time, Sue Mengers. She called me and she said, you know, Potts, you haven't seen Shirley yet.

• 37:57Dax Shepard?

  When you coming?

• 37:58Speaker 02

  And then I went to see her and that was it.

• 38:00Dax Shepard?

  Wow. How did you get Nicholson?

• 38:01Speaker 02

  Deborah Winger got me Nicholson.

• 38:03Dax Shepard?

  She did.

• 38:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I couldn't get a script to him, you know?

• 38:06Dax Shepard?

  Right. I mean, DeVito's a shoo-in, right? You're gonna get DeVito. He's gotta pick up the phone and be in this. That makes sense. But Nicholson, she got him in. And what was your working relationship with him?

• 38:17Speaker 02

  Actor of his time. The talent was so great. But that kind of talent with all the charisma in the world, were you kidding me?

• 38:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 38:24Speaker 02

  And you know, we did a picture as good as it gets where if he didn't do it, nobody could do it because he had permission from people to play this wretched. Core character is the star of a movie. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I wouldn't have made it. It was the only one you could get away with it. Yeah.

• 38:40Dax Shepard?

  He's the only one that could have pulled that off.

• 38:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 38:43Speaker 02

  And he's everything.

• 38:44Dax Shepard?

  Was it easy for you to give him notes, or was it intimidating?

• 38:47Speaker 02

  You go legally insane when you direct, I think.

• 38:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you're in such a bubble.

• 38:51Speaker 02

  That's it. You don't know the difference between right and wrong anymore. You're obsessed with one thought, everything else slips away. Yeah. You're being paid to be obsessed. Past reason.

• 38:59Dax Shepard?

  Wake up, think of nothing else till you go to bed for months.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:02Dax Shepard?

  So it wasn't hard for you?

• 39:04Speaker 02

  No, you lose yourself in it. You go away and you're trying to serve the thing. I mean, you have to get out of your own way.

• 39:10Dax Shepard?

  Now, I've never met him, I haven't worked with him, but I have a hunch, if he wanted, he could charm you out of anything you wanted. I guess is my hunch, because he's so charismatic.

• 39:21Speaker 02

  I'm fumbling because you can't convey it, but he'd come up to me and say, "You want to know the worst direction you gave today?"

• 39:28Speaker 02

  And then he'd also say, "You want to know the best direction you gave today?" Yeah. He worked. We worked. You know, it wasn't like, "Is he okay today?" He did the work.

• 39:36Dax Shepard?

  This is just to geek out for one second on Jack Nicholson. One of my favorite things is The Departed, simply because we've got every single one of the actors. Like, let's bring them all in and let's put them in a wide shot, and let's just see who you stare at. And I just kept thinking the whole movie, oh yeah, man, there could be two bears fighting, and if Nicholson's in frame, I'm just on him. That's just a once-in-a-lifetime kind of impossible charisma.

• 40:03Speaker 02

  Historically fantastic.

• 40:05Dax Shepard?

  What a dude. Okay, so that movie is just wildly successful. I'm wondering how you took that in. You win Best Adapted Screenplay, you win Best Picture, you win Best Director, Nicholson wins Best Supporting, you sweep the Oscars.

• 40:23Dax Shepard?

  A, had you written multiple speeches in anticipation of going up over and over again? Or what was the experience like on the night where you caught with your pants down?

• 40:34Speaker 02

  The first one was, I think, for writing and it was everything it should be. It was joyous. It was great.

• 40:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:40Speaker 02

  I was good, man. I sat down. I had Oscars there.

• 40:43Dax Shepard?

  Can I argue really quick too? If of any of those categories that you might have felt worthy of, it'd be the writing. You've been writing forever. It's not gonna queue up any impostor send them, but perhaps some of the others could not be as embraced so easily.

• 40:59Speaker 02

  You're absolutely right.

• 41:00Dax Shepard?

  So what's going on when you go up the second time?

• 41:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, keep getting more.

• 41:03Speaker 02

  You went for directing. The actors got you there. I don't think there's any question about that. The third one, just my mind was blown. So I was just sort of staggering. And Deborah did this amazing thing because she was great in the film. And everybody else is winning these Oscars and we're all posing for pictures afterwards. And Deborah, we're holding ours. She holds an imaginary Oscar. So she was, she was great. Yeah.

• 41:25Dax Shepard?

  Well, I happen to know I've read some of your feedback afterwards. And you framed it as like, it adds a heightened self-consciousness. That's really something you have to contend with. So there's that and I want to hear your opinion on that. But then I'm curious, just with your childhood, because I have this. Did you also have this enormous sense of the other shoe must drop soon? This is all too good. Did you have that suspicion that it's just all too good?

• 41:50Speaker 02

  I mean, I think the great thing is you get to make your next picture. It's currencies.

• 41:54Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 41:54Speaker 02

  So that was really what I thought. I get to make another movie.

• 41:58Dax Shepard?

  And it goes without saying, you loved making Terms of Endearment, I'm imagining.

• 42:02Speaker 02

  Loved is not the word I do, but I guess it's true.

• 42:05Dax Shepard?

  You wanted to do it again. Minimal, yeah?

• 42:08Speaker 02

  I'd like to do it again.

• 42:09Dax Shepard?

  Yes, whatever we can infer from that. Then the next movie's broadcast news. Again, what a fucking sensational movie and your taste is so good. Holly Hunter for me is like, my God.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  It was such an accident that I got her. I got her at the last minute. I still pay homage to the casting director. She had put up with me for six months that I couldn't find anybody and we auditioned people. And I had somebody that I didn't feel great about, but that was what I was gonna have to go with. And she says, there's this girl who's leaving town today, but you can see her. And it was Holly Hunter and it was just God.

• 42:40Dax Shepard?

  Dropped her in your lap.

• 42:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:42Dax Shepard?

  Oh, and she's just going toe to toe with William Hurt and it is riveting.

• 42:45Speaker 02

  Wow. Yeah.

• 42:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. This is your first time working with Albert Brooks?

• 42:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 42:51Dax Shepard?

  And this then starts the confusion, obviously. You've experienced this, right? People insist you must be related to this man. Your last name is Brooks and his last name is Brooks. Does it start then?

• 43:02Speaker 02

  He's an Einstein, Brooks.

• 43:03Dax Shepard?

  What does that mean, an Einstein?

• 43:05Speaker 02

  His father's real name was Einstein.

• 43:06Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 43:07Speaker 02

  And they called him Albert, and he did not want to be Albert Einstein.

• 43:10Dax Shepard?

  Right, okay.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 43:12Dax Shepard?

  And your dad changed the name to Brooks to appear to be Irish?

• 43:15Speaker 02

  He changed from Bernstein. He was the last man trying to pass the change of his being Jewish.

• 43:20Dax Shepard?

  And he chose Irish, interesting.

• 43:22Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. I was 12 years old. I thought I was Irish.

• 43:26Dax Shepard?

  Oh, no kidding?

• 43:27Speaker 02

  Younger than that. I was nine, and then suddenly I saw my paternal grandfather's name was Bernstein. And I slowly managed to put two and two together.

• 43:37Dax Shepard?

  Was he celebrating St. Patrick's Day with extra flourish?

• 43:40Speaker 02

  I think most nights a week, he was celebrating St. Patrick's Day.

• 43:44Dax Shepard?

  Good for him. So then you're nominated for that film again for Best Picture and Screenplay, which is incredible. And now, I want this to be how it is. It makes a good story. Maybe it's not true, but you had left television, for all intents and purposes, and you get kind of dragged back into television that year of broadcast news, presumably to help a friend, Tracy Allman?

• 44:07Speaker 02

  Not dragged back.

• 44:08Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Somebody gave me a tape of who she was, and I'd never seen anybody, an absolutely original talent. I dove back in. I love television. Nobody has to talk me into it.

• 44:17Dax Shepard?

  That's fair.

• 44:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:18Dax Shepard?

  I guess what I want and what I like from this is, you were already busy doing this thing, but you saw this way that you could help with someone that was really talented.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  Not help, no.

• 44:28Dax Shepard?

  No, okay, okay.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  Work with, exploit.

• 44:32Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Exploit. Okay, great. Then it's not a great story. You were rewarded regardless. Because if people who don't remember this whole trajectory, I do. I loved The Tracy Allman Show. I was 12 years old when this show came out.

• 44:46Speaker 02

  On a network that nobody watched at the time.

• 44:48Speaker 01

  Which was what?

• 44:49Dax Shepard?

  Fox. All you had was Married with Children, and this must have followed it, because I saw it at some point. Maybe it launched off of that. At any rate, I saw- And I was already a huge fan staring at live and I'm like, oh, this is wonderful. This is kind of like you're just with one character evolving. And then they would show these little kind of interstitial cartoons. And there was this character Bart Simpson. And then this becomes the Simpsons.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  It's insane.

• 45:15Speaker 02

  Crudely drawn, Matt Groening, having drawn him while waiting to see me. He had a comic strip, Life and Hell. In Life and Hell, he did the 12 ways to die in Hollywood. And it was road rage and being shot and failure and then success.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  That's right. I love that.

• 45:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, so that was, so it was amazing. That's how we met off that.

• 45:35Speaker 01

  Do you have the original Bart?

• 45:36Speaker 02

  I think I do.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  That's worth some mention.

• 45:38Dax Shepard?

  When this becomes its own show, The Simpsons, I guess two years after Tracy Allman launches. You have some interesting provision in your contract with Fox where you kind of, I don't know what the verbiage is.

• 45:51Speaker 02

  Mileage?

• 45:52Dax Shepard?

  Mileage. Well, now it has mileage, but then you had some kind of creative control that was unique.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:59Dax Shepard?

  It opened up a lot of episodes that otherwise wouldn't have happened.

• 46:03Speaker 02

  That's true, and it was a young network. And so I don't think he would have gotten it out of one that was established.

• 46:08Dax Shepard?

  OK, so we are at the 36 year marker. This is the 36 year of The Simpsons. It's won two Peabodys, 37 Emmys. I'm going to ask you a very tacky question. You're going to hate, but I have to know.

• 46:23Speaker 02

  Well, maybe you don't have to.

• 46:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you don't have to answer, but I have to ask.

• 46:27Speaker 02

  You're a free man.

• 46:29Dax Shepard?

  No, I want to know because I'm such a nosy pig. Is there a running tally of what this thing has generated over the last 36 years? Like, can you look and see the exact amount of money this thing has generated?

• 46:44Speaker 02

  No, thank heavens.

• 46:45Dax Shepard?

  It has to be the most successful, though, Hollywood property of all time.

• 46:48Speaker 02

  It's the longest running scripted show in history. That he, uncontrollably.

• 46:53Dax Shepard?

  The movie alone made $500 million. I mean, we're in the many, many, many, many billions. I just think that's astounding.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  It was five and a quarter.

• 47:02Dax Shepard?

  That doesn't mean a thing. You earned 25 million. I'm gonna ask ChatGPT if it can tell me what the total in billions is. I love that. I think it's so rad when art can create what an automaker. I just think that's fucking cool.

• 47:18Speaker 02

  The great thing is the energy on the show. Matt Groening and I are always around, but there's always a show in running it that's defining it. And now it's Matt Selman. The amazing thing is the energy, the freshness, particularly right now, is just filled with energy and change.

• 47:32Dax Shepard?

  That's the impossible accomplishment. And you share it probably only with Saturday Night Live, which is to keep it fresh and on fire for that long. What a rare thing.

• 47:41Speaker 02

  It's great because nobody second guesses you at this point. It's just a great atmosphere and that thing about community again.

• 47:48Dax Shepard?

  That's really excellent.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is.

• 47:50Speaker 02

  All about the writers, yeah.

• 47:51Dax Shepard?

  Okay, you have your first setback with I'll Do Anything. I mean, you're in such a meteoric rise between TV and film. Yeah, here it is. How did you take that?

• 48:02Speaker 02

  Ow.

• 48:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:03Dax Shepard?

  Ow, right? It is hard.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  Ow for about a year, yeah.

• 48:07Speaker 01

  Well, it just didn't make what it needed to make.

• 48:09Speaker 02

  I did it as a musical. I don't think anybody had to be a real singer. And actually, at the core, there are things that I still am so glad got expressed. Because there's a father-daughter relationship in there.

• 48:20Dax Shepard?

  That's adorable and works.

• 48:21Speaker 02

  That really mattered to me. And there was a six-year-old girl who just gave an extraordinary performance, like crazy, unallowed to happen, like against the laws of physics, you know?

• 48:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:33Speaker 02

  It was a big failure. And it was worse than that because we previewed and we had a preview where there were walkouts.

• 48:39Dax Shepard?

  Oh, what an experience that is, isn't it?

• 48:41Speaker 02

  I went from that. I apologized to everybody I'd worked with to lead them into that. The Los Angeles Times found out about the preview and started to do a series of things. So it just became, you're spending a few months of your life blushing.

• 48:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, it's a unique experience.

• 48:56Speaker 02

  I got a weird feeling it's my legs now. Can we talk about my new move?

• 49:00Dax Shepard?

  Tell me that. I've gone through it. And there's this sense when you're walking around that every human you see knows you've failed. I have had that at least.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  Which is probably not true.

• 49:11Dax Shepard?

  It's not true at all. But you feel like... No, it's a little true.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  No.

• 49:22Dax Shepard?

  One thing I just want to thank you for because it goes in my top three comedies of all time, which is in 1996, somehow you become involved with Bottle Rocket with Wes and Owen.

• 49:32Speaker 02

  Oh, so great that you bring that up.

• 49:35Dax Shepard?

  That's the fucking movie. Yeah. How on earth, you must have seen their short they made.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  I saw the short that got honorable mention, you know, someplace. And I went to see them because I loved it. I went to see them in Texas, flew to Dallas. They had a script and the three guys turned out to be the cast and the writer and the director were all living on the same floor, you know, but I mean, the floor of one apartment with just refuse every place. You couldn't walk a straight line in one step without, you know. It was Owen, I'm trying to remember who the third person was.

• 50:05Dax Shepard?

  Maybe Luke?

• 50:06Speaker 02

  I think that's right. And I said, have you ever read it out loud? They hadn't.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 50:12Speaker 02

  Three and a half hour later, I mean, it was the longest damn script in the world.

• 50:16Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 50:17Speaker 02

  And I said, it's all going to be about length. And I remember Wes looking at me and he weighed like 80 pounds. He lived in his car. Flash forward, I'm in Paris and this gorgeous guy who owns the world in a white suit. This is a few years ago.

• 50:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. No, his life is an art installation now.

• 50:33Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. He has, he has a unique career. He was living in his car and like, say, three and a half hours, he said, are you going to make the movie? And I said, I don't know, man.

• 50:43Dax Shepard?

  Not at three and a half hours.

• 50:45Speaker 02

  I said, why don't you come? And then I think there was six months of work that went in.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:49Dax Shepard?

  And then they went away and made it.

• 50:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:51Dax Shepard?

  Owen is on record as saying, I think you felt bad for us when you bought it. And then the reading was the worst reading ever.

• 50:59Speaker 01

  Sleeping bags on the floor and stuff.

• 51:02Dax Shepard?

  I think you felt bad for us.

• 51:05Speaker 01

  That's so cool that you got to be a part of the beginning of all of them because they all turned out to be so amazing.

• 51:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you've gotten to do that a bunch of times.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:15Dax Shepard?

  That must be one of the more rewarding aspects of all this, like the people you cast on taxis, the meeting Owen and Wes, all that stuff.

• 51:22Speaker 02

  That's great.

• 51:23Dax Shepard?

  Because you can only be so happy with your own accomplishments, but when you help other people accomplish stuff, it really feels good, no?

• 51:29Speaker 02

  It's not about that. It's when the work is good, you feel good. And then things happen. But I think the cart and horse is very clear to me.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  I think you're too humble to say you've helped people.

• 51:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that might be the case.

• 51:39Speaker 02

  No, but it's not true.

• 51:41Dax Shepard?

  Listen, he launched a bunch of careers and Simpsons is worth a hundred and fifty billion dollars.

• 51:45Speaker 02

  I was an active part. Everybody came through for everybody.

• 51:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. What you're saying is correct.

• 51:50Dax Shepard?

  Okay, the last one I want to talk about, and then Al McKay. As good as it gets, of course. Obviously, just a brilliant fucking movie. Seven Academy Award nominations, incredible performances. But I have specific questions. One is Trudeau the dog, the Brussels Griffon. Were you a fan of Brussels, or was this a happy accident?

• 52:09Speaker 02

  I've never heard a breed pronounced better than you just did. That was the Griffon. I happen to fall in love with an ex-girlfriend's Brussels. Yeah.

• 52:16Dax Shepard?

  How did Trudeau come to be a character?

• 52:18Speaker 02

  Somebody had written a script that was not a comedy, but it had the characters, a lot of the story. And then I started working on it, and I feel that it was two people who were partners in screenwriting, but they worked a year apart and separately, the way it works. And it never could have happened without him. And then it was right to change form into a comedy. So the dog was in his.

• 52:42Dax Shepard?

  And then you gotta cast the dog, and it's gonna be an important part.

• 52:45Speaker 02

  Figuring out how to piss on Q, which we had.

• 52:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 52:47Speaker 02

  Which we ended up, the prop guy took care of that. The way it has to be is that you don't treat the dog as an afterthought, the dog and his trainer. That you give them what you give to every actor. That was very important, to give them the time, to give them the stage, to give them the respect.

• 53:04Dax Shepard?

  What would you say was the thing that was working on that movie that you isolated and figured out and kind of doubled down on? You know how you have these moments where you're like, oh, this is the thing that's really working?

• 53:14Speaker 02

  The hardest part to cast was Greg Kinnear in that. That took months and months. Two auditions that some people resent and some people really like, because instead of an audition, I get involved, I make it a work session, we go over it again. And some actors... resent it and some actors really appreciate it. It's the right way to work or else it's sort of bullshit. Let's try working together, you know.

• 53:34Dax Shepard?

  Yes, because the odds that they're going to come in and do it exactly as you want it. And then they're going to replicate that exact thing on the day are very slim.

• 53:40Speaker 02

  No, but you're just seeing the mesh. And I mean, you lose yourself. So you're not sitting there saying, show me.

• 53:45Dax Shepard?

  And you're trying to figure it out with them.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  Yes, he was the toughest. A colleague told me about him and I went to see him because that was impossible. I've never read so many actors for a part.

• 53:53Dax Shepard?

  Really?

• 53:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 53:54Dax Shepard?

  What were the essential ingredients?

• 53:56Speaker 02

  You don't know. That's why you can't, you know, you don't know.

• 53:59Dax Shepard?

  You want vulnerability, but you don't want pathetic. It's a thin. Yeah.

• 54:02Speaker 02

  It's just an aura.

• 54:03Dax Shepard?

  Well, what a fucking movie. Okay, how does Emma McKay come about? And the fact that Emma Mackey is the star is very fucking confusing. And is that accidental or intentional? Did you write it with her in mind?

• 54:16Speaker 02

  I wrote Emma McKay and then when it was her, I just didn't want to change Emma McKay's name.

• 54:21Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you're doesn't love. Oh, that's great.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  I just lived with it for so long like that.

• 54:26Dax Shepard?

  What was it called before she was in it?

• 54:28Speaker 02

  Emma McKay.

• 54:29Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 54:30Speaker 02

  It was always called that. And then Emma Mackey comes along after I spent, again, it was one of those stories like the Greg Kinnear story. Went overseas, went to London. The hope that when you try and write this female character and catch something. And it's like, if you build it, will she come? Yeah. And this was a real process. Miraculously, she showed up and this is her first American starring role. She had one word in Barbie, but made an impact. Oh, wow.

• 54:56Dax Shepard?

  She's in Sex Education.

• 54:58Speaker 02

  Yes, and the Katherine Hepburn, Audrey Hepburn movies of the 50s, I adored. And this was me just tribute, whatever it is. But that spirit, that screwball comedy. And then how do you do screwball comedy and clock the laughs and put meat on the bone? So that you're really dealing with some of the crap that we go through. And that can do us in if we're not careful.

• 55:20Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 55:20Speaker 02

  And try and combine those two things, which is what the picture is. Because you're not telling the truth unless you show that part of life is a little tough. And I love screwball comedy.

• 55:31Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 55:44Dax Shepard?

  So yeah, the movie starts out and we meet Ella and we find out that at 16, her father, Woody Harrelson, your access to cast is a little enviable.

• 55:55Speaker 02

  But you earned it.

• 55:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:57Speaker 02

  Woody's an old friend too. We go back to before he did anything.

• 56:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you do? He's being fired because he has slept with several coworkers.

• 56:06Speaker 02

  And is being confronted by his 16-year-old daughter.

• 56:08Dax Shepard?

  Yes, the rest of the family, or the mother in particular, seems to be going along with this quietly. And she's not having that. She's like, let's be honest about why you've been let go.

• 56:17Speaker 02

  Her first line is, wait, because everybody's packing up, moving on, pretending it doesn't happen.

• 56:21Dax Shepard?

  We're gonna acknowledge the reality of this. So not only has the father had many, many extramarital affairs and the family's in flux because of it.

• 56:30Speaker 02

  And as he points out, all three women sent letters of support.

• 56:33Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes. He said that's one valid perspective. So he has to now take a job in another state and she's in her junior year of high school. And so she decides to stay with her aunt, who is Jamie Lee Curtis.

• 56:46Speaker 02

  Yes, and it's a little messier than that because her mother, who still loves him despite all, knows that her daughter and him will never get along and it will always be that kind of chaos. And still loves the guy, so sort of urges so that Emma's character is abandoned and made to feel abandoning almost. It's weird.

• 57:08Dax Shepard?

  And you feel very much the mom's shame at sticking with the dad. She knows the daughter's in great judgment.

• 57:15Speaker 02

  Correct, and will do it again. Yeah, I get it.

• 57:18Dax Shepard?

  Which is heartbreaking because she's already taken on the chin from the husband and now the daughter's disappointed in her. And then while they're gone, the mom dies unexpectedly. So I'm just gonna throw out there from what we've learned about you, there's a lot of stuff here that sounds vaguely familiar to your childhood. We've got a questionable father in the mix and we've got a mom who dies prematurely. Are you aware of that when you're writing it?

• 57:40Speaker 02

  I called him Eddie, my father's name.

• 57:42Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so yeah.

• 57:43Speaker 02

  So you're aware. I'm blushing now. So many Hollywood pictures end with forgiveness being the answer. And if forgiveness is always the answer, forgiveness is meaningless.

• 57:53Speaker 02

  Something has to be unforgivable.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 57:55Speaker 02

  There's gotta be an unforgivable forgiveness to mean anything.

• 57:58Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that's a good point.

• 57:58Speaker 02

  And it's really the question.

• 57:59Dax Shepard?

  It needs to be relative to something.

• 58:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I'm sort of reactionary to every movie ending with forgive you and that's the answer in life.

• 58:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  Especially since I don't know that I forgive, my father did unforgivable things.

• 58:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:11Speaker 02

  Unforgivable has to exist.

• 58:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, right, right, right.

• 58:14Speaker 02

  But they have to be forgivable.

• 58:15Dax Shepard?

  It's also interesting, we could get very philosophical here, it's like, there is some risk of healing all things from the childhood because they are the fodder for creativity. Like if you had had some really dreamy peaceful resolution with your father in the past, this movie doesn't exist.

• 58:32Speaker 02

  Absolutely, and I had aunts that were very giving to me, and there's an aunt in this picture played by Jamie Lee, and Jamie Lee, her humanity to just be around, and I think she kicks it out of the park.

• 58:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, in some weird way, she's the emotional hub of the movie. She's the most dependable source for Ella to check in, get a reality check.

• 58:54Speaker 02

  Two women who've been through everything together, who love the ass off each other.

• 58:57Dax Shepard?

  And as Ella then is a kind of a wunderkind herself, she finds herself as the deputy governor, or whatever that role's called.

• 59:04Speaker 02

  Lieutenant Governor, yeah.

• 59:05Dax Shepard?

  Lieutenant Governor under, again, ding ding ding, Albert Brooks, no relation to you.

• 59:10Speaker 02

  Einstein.

• 59:10Dax Shepard?

  Cause you're Irish and he's Jewish. Easy mistake. He's the governor, he steps down with 18 months left of his term to go join the cabinet in the White House. So now she finds herself as a 29-year-old governor.

• 59:24Speaker 02

  34, her real age was that.

• 59:25Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay, sorry, sorry. But still, she's checking in with her aunt regularly, whether there's a scandal brewing about her.

• 59:32Speaker 02

  Her aunt who raised her, yeah.

• 59:33Dax Shepard?

  She's kind of her reality check.

• 59:37Speaker 02

  I think it was true in my family that the significant love in a woman's life can be another woman, family member. That's the key to our journey, but the choice is also armor, and that's sort of the great thing, it's the great thing about the gender.

• 59:51Dax Shepard?

  So the dad resurfaces, and he's just a love and sex addict, that's very obvious. And he now has a new girlfriend, the new girlfriend's urging him to make amends, but it's not really an amends.

• 1:00:02Speaker 02

  Until you get things right with your kids, I'm not gonna be your woman.

• 1:00:06Dax Shepard?

  Yes, I guess my question is, since there's so much similarity, why do a female protagonist and not a male protagonist? Like, it's almost your story, but you chose to tell it through the lens of a female protagonist. Wow, that never occurred to me.

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  I did it wrong.

• 1:00:25Dax Shepard?

  No, I just.

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  No, not wrong.

• 1:00:27Dax Shepard?

  I think there's something really quite interesting there that you're kind of telling your story. But you would rather have a woman portray your role in some sense.

• 1:00:37Speaker 02

  I have never thought about it that way. I plan to have this surgically removed from my head after I leave.

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  Maybe it was a protective thing, like if it's exactly you, that's a little harder to write and to sit with. So maybe there's like a little bit of a distance when you're writing for a female character.

• 1:00:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that. God bless you.

• 1:00:56Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 1:00:56Dax Shepard?

  I'll make another argument, which is your story in 1958, when you turn 18, having had really no dad present and a mother that was working nonstop. You were starting with a real deficit that I don't think we could extend to any man in 2025 as a male lead. I don't know that it would represent really what you were starting out with, how much the odds were stacked against you and your own personal story in 1968. That would ring untrue today.

• 1:01:25Speaker 02

  And I think there were parts that were consciously based on times of my life. And I think there must be stuff that was unconsciously based on that, too.

• 1:01:34Dax Shepard?

  Having done the Mary Tyler Moore Show and having explored this topic now for 55 years, how is Ella different and similar?

• 1:01:46Speaker 02

  The topics change, women change. That's always the question. It's always what makes a contemporary female a heroine. And this is a no nonsense, she's a public servant we pray for. She's just really genuine.

• 1:01:58Dax Shepard?

  You know, principled and has integrity.

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  She gets accidentally loaded for the first time in her life in the movie. And it's weed, not like you've seen weed before. Weed where you love weed, weed where, oh, this is the real me. I gotta remember what I'm saying now. Oh, God, this is it, this is it. And what comes out of her is, I can make people's lives better. That's her dirty secret, you know, that she doesn't even get out of her mouth until she does that monologue. Great, I think she kills the monologue.

• 1:02:24Dax Shepard?

  And then there's obviously the reoccurring issue that women still deal with, which is like she kind of inadvertently does end up marrying kind of a version of her dad.

• 1:02:33Speaker 02

  That's what everybody says, unintended, but everybody says that. Yeah, and maybe common consent of mankind or something.

• 1:02:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so explain the husband that she's kind of just woken up.

• 1:02:42Speaker 02

  Hardest thing in the script, because through some versions, what is she doing with him?

• 1:02:47Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:02:48Speaker 02

  He's based on this. That it was, one of the things that a woman can consider about a guy is what impact he'll have on her life, sort of in a traditional sense. He's a successful guy, it's attractive. This man is gonna take me places I never heard of. This is the reverse.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:03:07Speaker 02

  She's that.

• 1:03:08Dax Shepard?

  He noticed it in high school.

• 1:03:09Speaker 02

  And I don't know if it's bad to fall in love with that, but you're going places and you don't even know it. You're going on a journey and I'd be stuck here. I love you.

• 1:03:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, persistence, persistence, persistence. So yeah, he is enamored with the obviousness that she is gonna be going places. He's ambitious, but she's not, in the wrong way. He likes that she's governor.

• 1:03:32Speaker 02

  He likes the kook months and stuff like that.

• 1:03:33Dax Shepard?

  Yes, he wants to be on TV with her, he wants the title.

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  Like he's using her.

• 1:03:38Dax Shepard?

  Even if he doesn't know he is.

• 1:03:40Speaker 02

  What's been sort of a thing traditionally, my way out. Oh, this guy takes me to a whole new place. Prince Charming takes me to a new life.

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

  Yes, if it's reversed, we don't say she's using him, I guess is the thing.

• 1:03:51Dax Shepard?

  The trope you've seen a million times in movies is like the wife of a man and she's quite ambitious and helps him achieve his goals, but it's really unique and interesting and a bit icky when you see the reverse of it.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  Right, like why should it be?

• 1:04:05Dax Shepard?

  Why should it be, but it's, I don't like it.

• 1:04:07Speaker 01

  That is a very contemporary woman right now. There's a lot of that going on right now that's hard.

• 1:04:13Speaker 02

  They write their marriage vows and his is, except for you and me, baby, everything's a joke. And that's an outlook, you know?

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:20Dax Shepard?

  Well, it's delightful. I love Kamal too. Kamal Nanjiani is just one of my all-time favorites.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, the big six.

• 1:04:26Dax Shepard?

  It's like the good guys cast. It's like everyone that's in it is sincerely a good guy.

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  Oh, I have one more question.

• 1:04:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  When's the first time you cried? You told us the second time.

• 1:04:36Dax Shepard?

  My mother's death.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  I guess we could have assumed that.

• 1:04:39Dax Shepard?

  I made an ass of you and me.

• 1:04:41Speaker 01

  You did, you did.

• 1:04:42Dax Shepard?

  He said second, I was like, okay, I'm guessing 22 was the first time.

• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  And how much time in between was those two?

• 1:04:48Dax Shepard?

  Long time. I can tell you. Long time. I have it. Eighty-three, twenty-two, sixty-six to eighty-three, so that's That's a long time. A big gap. Yeah. I think I had about a similar gap.

• 1:05:03Speaker 02

  I cheer up easily now.

• 1:05:05Dax Shepard?

  You have a bunch of girls, right?

• 1:05:07Speaker 02

  I have two daughters and two sons.

• 1:05:08Dax Shepard?

  Do you cry as much for the sons or the girls? I have two girls. I just know I cry non-stop and I'm assuming it's happily because they're girls.

• 1:05:14Speaker 02

  My last cry was with my granddaughter on the phone.

• 1:05:17Dax Shepard?

  Oh. Ah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, because something wonderful had happened to her and she didn't see it coming. So it was a happy cry.

• 1:05:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. My kids are embarrassed for me, I think. I mean, I'm just letting it rip all the time.

• 1:05:31Speaker 02

  Wow. Yeah, men don't bring Kleenex with them, yes.

• 1:05:34Dax Shepard?

  No, I never see it coming. The boy's getting more and more regular. It's nice, though, isn't it?

• 1:05:40Speaker 02

  It feels like you're genuine.

• 1:05:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it feels nice.

• 1:05:45Speaker 02

  By the way, I think it was one of your podcasts where you were talking about men's groups, and I can't tell you what it brought back to me and how much I miss it when I was part of a group. In your case, it was AA, but just palpably missed it so much.

• 1:05:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:00Speaker 02

  Hearing you talk about it.

• 1:06:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I was there last night with my idol who just got twenty-three years. He also had a seventy-sixth birthday. And I was sitting with him and I was like, oh, my God, man. I have had twenty-three years of getting to see someone who has exactly what I want and is exactly who I want to be, and I've got to just ape him. And what an insane gift. How the hell do you find that without something like that?

• 1:06:28Speaker 02

  It resonated.

• 1:06:28Dax Shepard?

  Thank you. Well, man, this is a real honor, Jim, honestly.

• 1:06:32Speaker 02

  I mean, you guys are great. Thank you. I appreciate it.

• 1:06:34Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, just the work's so special and lasting. You did a bang'em-up job. And you'll call me and tell me what Simpsons is worth, right? Between us, and I won't tell anyone.

• 1:06:48Speaker 02

  Get me accounting.

• 1:06:50Dax Shepard?

  All right, thank you so much, Jim.

• 1:06:51Speaker 02

  Pleasure.

• 1:06:54Dax Shepard?

  Hi there, this is Hermium Hermium. If you like that, you're gonna love the fact check with Miss Monica.

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  Anyway, I want his wine.

• 1:07:03Dax Shepard?

  His wine and his cake.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  His wine and his cake that he doesn't eat or drink. I would eat all his stuff and drink all his stuff.

• 1:07:09Dax Shepard?

  You wanna fuck him, that's so exciting.

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  Well, it's curious. I'm curious.

• 1:07:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, let's just, let's bring everyone up to speed. We're talking about Tom Cruise and you did say.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  He's not gonna come on if we do this.

• 1:07:19Dax Shepard?

  If he knows you wanna fuck him, he'll be here in two seconds. What are you talking about? You, you don't understand one thing about how the world works. It's crazy. The eight years of me trying to explain to you how the world works.

• 1:07:30Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:07:31Dax Shepard?

  And you just won't pick it up.

• 1:07:32Speaker 01

  I'm just, I have some curiosity.

• 1:07:34Dax Shepard?

  Fuck him.

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  I wanna know what it, what he's like.

• 1:07:37Dax Shepard?

  What it feels like to fuck him? Get into it. Let's hear what this is about.

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  No. I'm like, what are you like in an intimate setting? Because you're so, he's so intense and everything has to be so, um.

• 1:07:52Dax Shepard?

  Regimented?

• 1:07:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's probably no room for improv. Unless that's the space that he improvised. So that's my curiosity.

• 1:08:00Dax Shepard?

  Yes, that's what I'm saying is like, he is a perfectionist at all things. He just delivers and there's no reason to think he wouldn't just blow your mind in the sack. Also, if you watch those early Tom Cruise movies, he is so playful with his eyes. He has total command of his charm with his eyes.

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, he does.

• 1:08:19Dax Shepard?

  If he locked into your eyes, I think he could give you a real experience.

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  I'm just, you know.

• 1:08:24Dax Shepard?

  Your, your curiosity's peaked.

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

  My curiosity's peaked.

• 1:08:28Dax Shepard?

  But it's just interesting because you don't randomly, that's not what you offer randomly. Like, we, with a cute young baseball player you thought was hot and.

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  Oh, on the screen we had him on.

• 1:08:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, we haven't had him as a guest. When I threw out the notion, you're like, he's too young. I'm like, yeah, but just for a night, like a roll around fun picture over.

• 1:08:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:08:51Dax Shepard?

  And you were like, no. And then yesterday you shocked me because you're coming out of the studio and you're talking to a guest and you basically said like, I would fuck Tom Cruise. And I was like, this is interesting.

• 1:09:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:09:02Dax Shepard?

  You did agree that it's inconsistent.

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  I agree, but it's not, to me, it makes total sense.

• 1:09:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and that's, and I'm hoping you can convey that to me.

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  Okay. The hot baseball player.

• 1:09:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  I'm intimidated by. Now, see, this is weird. This is gonna seem.

• 1:09:17Dax Shepard?

  Disrespectful?

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, or cocky or something. And I don't mean that to be the case.

• 1:09:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:23Speaker 01

  But that hot, young baseball player.

• 1:09:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  I think I would feel like, oh my gosh. Yeah, I hope I'm hot enough.

• 1:09:32Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:09:33Speaker 01

  And if Tom and I are.

• 1:09:37Dax Shepard?

  Getting intimate, yeah.

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're rolling around.

• 1:09:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we're all around.

• 1:09:40Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:09:42Dax Shepard?

  You think he's gonna be pretty grateful for what's going on?

• 1:09:45Speaker 01

  No, cuz I know he has, he has access to everyone and has dated insanely hot people.

• 1:09:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  But for some reason.

• 1:09:56Dax Shepard?

  Part of it sees older?

• 1:09:57Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 1:09:58Dax Shepard?

  You know us older people would be grateful for anything, right? Is that part of what's going on?

• 1:10:03Speaker 01

  I hate to say it might have to do with age, but I think it does.

• 1:10:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And guess what? You're kinda right. I heard this said to me a long, long time ago, and it didn't make sense cuz I was younger at the time. But I did a movie, a student movie, 24 years ago at Mentor, Ohio. And one of the cast members was a much older dude. Who had been a lawyer and quit being a lawyer to do stand-up. And I was in this movie. I loved him. He was so interesting and funny.

• 1:10:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:29Dax Shepard?

  But he was, again, he was older. He was at least 10 years older than me. And I remember him saying like, there's no unattractive girls in their twenties. Like, I knew when I was in my twenties who was hot and who's not.

• 1:10:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:10:43Dax Shepard?

  And they're all just very attractive to me now.

• 1:10:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:46Dax Shepard?

  And so I heard that and I was like, man, I don't buy that. Like, you can still clearly see. And then now that I'm older, I'm like, yeah, everyone just is attractive. Like, usefulness is attractive.

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  Youthfulness, yeah.

• 1:10:57Dax Shepard?

  And you don't, you're not like picking apart these.

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:01Dax Shepard?

  When everyone was youthful in your, your, your pool.

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:11:04Dax Shepard?

  You got a little spoiled and you'd fine pick about eyebrows or this or that. And that's not what you think at 50.

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  Right, and I.

• 1:11:14Speaker 01

  I'm not in my twenties, but I still feel confident in my body.

• 1:11:19Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:11:19Speaker 01

  That it loo- it looks youthful.

• 1:11:22Dax Shepard?

  He would be, he would be very happy.

• 1:11:23Speaker 01

  I think he would be happy to see it.

• 1:11:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I'm sure he would.

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  Now.

• 1:11:26Dax Shepard?

  What if you laid on your back?

• 1:11:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:11:29Dax Shepard?

  Legs spread.

• 1:11:30Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:11:31Dax Shepard?

  And he dropped down like on like Mission Impossible and entered you. Wouldn't that be so exciting?

• 1:11:37Speaker 01

  I'm.

• 1:11:38Dax Shepard?

  Oh my, and then he went way up, and he's like 12 feet in the air.

• 1:11:41Speaker 01

  So he's on like a harness?

• 1:11:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but he's got total control of it. So when he drops, he can land right in you. You're like, whoa! And then you want more because he's gone for a while. You're like, Tom, you're up there way too long.

• 1:11:51Speaker 01

  Oh my god, this is the kind of fears, like I, that's embar- that's so embarrassing.

• 1:11:57Dax Shepard?

  He puts pads, like stunt pads, all around the room before you guys get started.

• 1:12:03Speaker 01

  Monica, you lay here.

• 1:12:05Dax Shepard?

  You cannot leave this area, you'll get hurt.

• 1:12:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:08Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna be doing all the stuff with the pyrotechnics and the swords.

• 1:12:10Speaker 01

  You just lay there.

• 1:12:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:11Speaker 01

  Okay. I'm having a realization.

• 1:12:14Dax Shepard?

  What?

• 1:12:15Speaker 01

  So I, I am attracted, and I have always been attracted to older men.

• 1:12:22Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:12:22Speaker 01

  Older than me, like at, at whatever stage I'm at, a fair amount older than me.

• 1:12:27Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  And now I'm wondering if it is because that's a, that's a self-protection.

• 1:12:33Dax Shepard?

  I would have never suggested it, but I, I do think that. In the same way, I have my suspicions, and no one likes this, this is too taboo to say.

• 1:12:43Speaker 01

  Okay, what?

• 1:12:44Dax Shepard?

  I have my suspicions about guys who date only one specific thing. Like they only, I only date Asian girls. Or they date really young girls.

• 1:12:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, this just came up.

• 1:12:59Dax Shepard?

  I think they have some sexual insecurities that they think either a young person won't know the difference of, or they're playing on some dumb stereotype.

• 1:13:07Speaker 01

  People do have types.

• 1:13:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  And is it okay? And why?

• 1:13:11Dax Shepard?

  Why do they have types?

• 1:13:12Speaker 01

  But you often say it's okay to have types.

• 1:13:14Dax Shepard?

  I do think it's okay to have types if it's not covering up an insecurity of yours.

• 1:13:19Speaker 01

  But how do we?

• 1:13:20Dax Shepard?

  But I guess who cares if it's covering up an insecurity?

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, like what's the difference? Everything's related to our fears and insecurities and our strengths and our.

• 1:13:28Dax Shepard?

  I think if you are. What I would say, kind of using someone to deal with your insecurities, I just think that's not fair. I think you should deal with your insecurities.

• 1:13:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:43Dax Shepard?

  And that someone shouldn't be the unwitting participant in this weird thing, that something deeper is going on that we're not acknowledging.

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  Right, but isn't that everyone?

• 1:13:53Dax Shepard?

  I don't think so. I mean, I see a difference between using someone.

• 1:13:58Speaker 01

  It's not using on purpose though, it's subconscious. So it's, to me, it's the same.

• 1:14:03Dax Shepard?

  What if they're conscious though?

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  Well, that's bad, yeah.

• 1:14:06Dax Shepard?

  Like, I only want to be with a virgin because I'm so terrible in bed. Like, that, I don't like that.

• 1:14:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's bad.

• 1:14:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's gross. That's not good.

• 1:14:13Speaker 01

  No, I agree, but if it's just a subconscious attraction.

• 1:14:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:19Speaker 01

  It's not like, I'm picking this because of this. It's like, oh, I'm attracted to that.

• 1:14:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:25Speaker 01

  And then you dig deeper, like, oh, I'm attracted to that because of this, but that's who you're attracted to.

• 1:14:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:30Speaker 01

  What, is that bad?

• 1:14:31Dax Shepard?

  Well, that's interesting. That then bleeds into a more complex scenario, which is like, what if these dudes who really desire subservient women? Like, you can make the argument, okay, well, there are subservient women, and that's what they've chosen as their role, and there's a guy who wants that, and they're together and they're happy.

• 1:14:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, you've made that, you've said that's okay.

• 1:14:56Dax Shepard?

  I mean, I just, for me personally, it's terrible.

• 1:14:59Speaker 01

  For you personally, but you're, we're talking about general, like, is it okay? And I think, I kind of think, yes. Like, if everyone is fine with it, with the arrangement.

• 1:15:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. I just think it's a shitty personality type, someone who's like, I don't want to compromise or be questioned. I want to do whatever I want to do, and I need a partner that'll just shut the fuck up and go along with it.

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  Well, of course, that's disgusting to me.

• 1:15:22Dax Shepard?

  I just hate that personality.

• 1:15:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:24Dax Shepard?

  Right?

• 1:15:24Speaker 01

  Of course. I mean, yeah, we do. So this just came up on Nobody's Listening, right? Elizabeth and Andy's show. This is funny, that they just talked about this because I guess Andy was kind of saying, like,

• 1:15:37Speaker 01

  What if, because I guess they're watching British Bake Off and someone maybe has alopecia on that show.

• 1:15:42Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:15:43Speaker 01

  And then Andy was like, what if you were dating someone who had alopecia? And then you find, found out their last three girlfriends had alopecia. Is that okay? Like, is it okay?

• 1:15:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:58Speaker 01

  To be attracted to that?

• 1:16:00Dax Shepard?

  I think that's great.

• 1:16:01Speaker 01

  I think it's fine.

• 1:16:03Dax Shepard?

  That's, that's great.

• 1:16:04Speaker 01

  Okay, but it's, to me in theory, it's like, that's fine. That's what you find physically attractive. When I put myself in the position of like, okay, so if I find out that my boyfriend, Tom.

• 1:16:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:23Speaker 01

  No, I'm kidding. Find out, if I find out that my boyfriend's last three girlfriends, in fact, this kind of happened to me on one, on a date.

• 1:16:32Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:16:32Speaker 01

  Last three girlfriends were Indian.

• 1:16:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:35Speaker 01

  I don't like that. And so I understand in theory, like, oh, that is an aesthetic you find attractive.

• 1:16:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. If anything, you should feel.

• 1:16:46Speaker 01

  Don't tell me how I should feel.

• 1:16:47Dax Shepard?

  This is how you should feel, and you're wrong if you don't feel this way. It should quiet any voice in your head that you have, is he really attracted to me? Like, it would confirm, no, I'm exactly what he's attracted to.

• 1:17:01Speaker 01

  No, but it's like, you're attracted to a thing that I happen to be. You're not attracted to me. That is not good.

• 1:17:10Dax Shepard?

  Okay, see, yes, and, and this is great, because this is how these always go.

• 1:17:14Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:17:15Dax Shepard?

  Which is you reduce whatever the one element that they're attracted to you about is being the total reason. So it's like, your issue with a fan wanting, initially being interested in you because they're a fan, great. But your personality has to then take over. And yes, you may, this gentleman may love your color of brown skin and find it to be the most aesthetically pleasing.

• 1:17:42Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:17:42Dax Shepard?

  And so that opened the door. But you have to, he has to like you for you. You can't like someone for the color of their skin. That's only gonna last for a few weeks.

• 1:17:51Speaker 01

  Well, for some people, that's not true. They just like a physical aesthetic and then they're like, it's their kink.

• 1:17:59Dax Shepard?

  But I don't, I, I have never been able to be with somebody simply because how they look physically.

• 1:18:05Speaker 01

  I know you, but we're not talking about you specifically. We're talking about people who have kinks and are like, you know, I have a Indian woman kink and so I'm on the prowl for one and you're one.

• 1:18:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and I'm attracted to a lot of Indian women, but then I need to talk to them and find out, do we like the same movies and have we a sense of humor?

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  They might not care. And then after a while, then it's like, I'm sick of her, so I'm onto the next Indian woman. Like, that's maybe the fear.

• 1:18:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I think that's the fear, but, uh, and I don't, I just don't think I'm terribly unique. Everyone I know who's with a partner, they like the person, their personality. They did for a while.

• 1:18:44Speaker 01

  I guess I'm saying, there are definitely people who are with people not for their personalities.

• 1:18:49Dax Shepard?

  Sure, but what I'm saying is, there are no, there's no pair of boobs that are so perfect, that those pair of boobs are gonna get you through a relationship. You might come for the boobs, but they're gonna wear out. People can't stay with someone because they like someone's boobs. There has to be a lot more going on than just, I like her boobs.

• 1:19:04Speaker 01

  I mean, I hope that's true, but I, I don't know if I believe that for certain men.

• 1:19:11Dax Shepard?

  Excluding narcissists who like, you're literally just a bit of branding for their

• 1:19:18Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:19:18Dax Shepard?

  identity?

• 1:19:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:19:20Dax Shepard?

  Sure. I think everyone in their life's a pawn that doesn't really, they just validate them in whatever category in that moment, they need them to.

• 1:19:27Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:19:28Dax Shepard?

  But excluding those people, talking about people in relationships that wanna call you and talk to you on the phone?

• 1:19:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:33Dax Shepard?

  And go out to dinner with you and eat, and go to movies?

• 1:19:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:36Dax Shepard?

  They have to like you.

• 1:19:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I hope.

• 1:19:39Dax Shepard?

  And I think sometimes you reduce why someone likes you to like a singular thing, and then evaluate that one single thing, when I think it's like hundreds of data input that make us like each other.

• 1:19:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, I, I, I hear, that's right.

• 1:19:54Dax Shepard?

  And it'd be okay if someone came for one reason and stayed for another.

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  I, I know, I know. I, I-

• 1:20:00Dax Shepard?

  Like, plenty of girls have been with me, I'm sure, because like, they like tall guys.

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, everyone likes tall guys.

• 1:20:07Dax Shepard?

  Well, I don't know. That's true.

• 1:20:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, they do. I mean, people like short guys too, but people also, everyone likes tall guys.

• 1:20:13Dax Shepard?

  And maybe everyone likes tall guys, but for some people, they have to be with a tall guy. I've met girls that are like, I've never had a boyfriend under 6'2". Like, that's what they love. They have to have that.

• 1:20:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:24Dax Shepard?

  And so, that's fine. You came, I got your attention because I was 6'2". You saw me across the room and like, I fit the thing.

• 1:20:33Speaker 01

  I know. I don't know why, to me, it's different. Like, that's kind of to me, like, saying, like, okay.

• 1:20:39Dax Shepard?

  I liked.

• 1:20:40Speaker 01

  Pretty. I like pretty people. Like, it's like, that's like, duh. You know, everyone likes tall guys, everyone likes pretty faces. Like, being Indian is not the same thing as that. It's, it's, it's a niche. It's very specific and it's like, I don't know.

• 1:21:02Dax Shepard?

  You could also.

• 1:21:03Speaker 01

  It's like a fetish.

• 1:21:06Speaker 01

  I mean, it's not always. Like, I'm not saying, I'm not saying Indian people in relationships, that person has a fetish. It's just if you see that it's a pattern.

• 1:21:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:15Speaker 01

  That to me.

• 1:21:17Dax Shepard?

  Well, it makes you, it would make me curious.

• 1:21:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:20Dax Shepard?

  Like, what is it that you like? Because it could be the culture.

• 1:21:26Speaker 01

  Right. And that.

• 1:21:27Dax Shepard?

  And you're not that. So I already understand why you'd be like, if your thing is Indian chicks, I'm not that. I'm not like, I'm not cooking.

• 1:21:36Speaker 01

  Don't put me in a box like that.

• 1:21:38Dax Shepard?

  And you were trying to not be Indian a little bit.

• 1:21:41Speaker 01

  Right. But now, yeah, I think it would just get complicated with that person. Because I'm like, I already have enough complicated feelings around this.

• 1:21:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I, I just, you're not gonna get the culture. If you're coming to me for like, the Indian experience, you're not gonna get it. But I don't know the stereotype. That's what I'm, that's why I'm more, I'm more concerned for guys that only date young Asian girls. I just don't, I don't, that one, because it has a lot of built-in stereotypes. There aren't those built-in stereotypes about Indian women. It's not that there's this subservient stereotype. It's not that there's a stereotype that the men have small penises. There's none of, none of that weird psychological baggage can I see why that would be your fetish. As opposed to. Other groups.

• 1:22:25Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:22:26Dax Shepard?

  What do you think of a girl, a white girl who only dates black guys?

• 1:22:29Speaker 01

  Um, I think that's in, I, I also think that's interesting.

• 1:22:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:36Speaker 01

  Um, I would wanna know why, if I was the man, I would also wanna know why.

• 1:22:43Dax Shepard?

  Right. There's, cause again, there's, there's three like likely s- explanations.

• 1:22:50Speaker 01

  Well, there's, there's a hundred explanations.

• 1:22:52Dax Shepard?

  One is just aesthetically, that's your pick.

• 1:22:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, gorgeous.

• 1:22:56Dax Shepard?

  A, that's your aesthetic. B, you're trying to rebel against your dad.

• 1:23:00Speaker 01

  Oh, see, this gets so, this is so complicated so fast.

• 1:23:05Dax Shepard?

  I know, but I think these are likely buckets that one would have to consider.

• 1:23:09Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 1:23:10Dax Shepard?

  Or you two are playing up on a stereotype and you're a size queen. These are like the three things I'm thinking.

• 1:23:16Speaker 01

  No, it could also be like, I imagine that you have a view of the world that I find interesting or different.

• 1:23:25Dax Shepard?

  Great, that's a fourth one, yeah.

• 1:23:27Speaker 01

  I mean, to me, that is what would be attractive.

• 1:23:32Dax Shepard?

  That you're attracted to the culture.

• 1:23:34Speaker 01

  No, not the culture, the like.

• 1:23:37Dax Shepard?

  Different set of glasses.

• 1:23:38Speaker 01

  Different set of glasses, that this person is seeing the world in a way that I, I can't. Yeah, and I think that's a beautiful thing to, to mix that, to understand other people.

• 1:23:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:52Speaker 01

  That's the only way to do it.

• 1:23:53Dax Shepard?

  But yeah, those are four really likely, I think, assumptions you could make.

• 1:23:57Speaker 01

  I think I am attracted to that. I think I'm attracted to things that are quite different than me.

• 1:24:04Dax Shepard?

  Novel and unique. I like it, it's fascinating.

• 1:24:07Speaker 01

  It is fascinating.

• 1:24:08Dax Shepard?

  It's a juicy.

• 1:24:09Speaker 01

  It is fascinating.

• 1:24:25Dax Shepard?

  I had a great trip to Texas.

• 1:24:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:24:28Dax Shepard?

  It was very brief, but I just love it. I love Austin, Texas.

• 1:24:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you got two steaks.

• 1:24:35Dax Shepard?

  I went down to Lambert's and got a pair of ribeyes, ribbies. Fuck, Monty.

• 1:24:41Speaker 01

  So good.

• 1:24:42Dax Shepard?

  They were, they really delivered.

• 1:24:45Speaker 01

  They're like candied.

• 1:24:47Dax Shepard?

  They're so candied. There's so much stuff in them. I took a picture. I may have sent it to you. It's just oozing with all these different color fats and.

• 1:24:55Speaker 01

  Juices.

• 1:24:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, sweet stuff and, oh, fuck. What a ribeye.

• 1:25:01Speaker 01

  Really good.

• 1:25:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Did that.

• 1:25:03Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:25:04Dax Shepard?

  Shot all day.

• 1:25:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:05Dax Shepard?

  Long 12 hour day. I've already said it 12 times. I haven't worked 12 hours in a long time. And had a blast on set, met a lot of fun actors, some I had seen in things and never met. That was fun. I forgot about that.

• 1:25:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:18Dax Shepard?

  Getting to bump into people that you've seen and like in things.

• 1:25:21Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:25:21Dax Shepard?

  And then Saturday, I wasn't in the mood. But it is my commitment. I had to go to Barton Springs before I got an airplane.

• 1:25:31Speaker 01

  Yourself.

• 1:25:31Dax Shepard?

  So I checked out of, it was a chilly day.

• 1:25:33Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:25:34Dax Shepard?

  I checked out of my hotel room and I went and I put my swimsuit on in the car and I did some, some treading of water.

• 1:25:40Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:25:41Dax Shepard?

  And I felt like I had worshipped at my church.

• 1:25:44Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:25:44Dax Shepard?

  I felt like, you know, elevated, you don't want to go to church.

• 1:25:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:48Dax Shepard?

  But when you leave, you're like, good, I went to church.

• 1:25:50Speaker 01

  I went.

• 1:25:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's exactly how I felt.

• 1:25:52Speaker 01

  That's great. I'm glad you had a good time.

• 1:25:54Dax Shepard?

  I did.

• 1:25:55Speaker 01

  Um, one more thing before we go. I tried multiple times to get in to a new diner.

• 1:26:03Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:26:04Speaker 01

  It's called Max and Helen's. I shouldn't even say it.

• 1:26:07Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:26:07Speaker 01

  But I am, I said it.

• 1:26:08Dax Shepard?

  You said it.

• 1:26:09Speaker 01

  I, Kristen, Anna, and I was like, let's do lunch at the new diner. So naive.

• 1:26:16Dax Shepard?

  This place out. Everyone's saying it's great.

• 1:26:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. They did some like, they did a bunch of friends and family previews, so I had already been seeing all these pictures. People were saying it's so good. It's amazing. I can't wait.

• 1:26:31Dax Shepard?

  Life changing.

• 1:26:33Speaker 01

  And I was like, hell, yeah. So on Friday, I told Kristen and Anna, let's do lunch. Let's go to the new diner. Great. What time should we go? 12, 12:30, 12:45?

• 1:26:44Dax Shepard?

  Sure. Sky's the limit.

• 1:26:45Speaker 01

  Get there. Three hour wait.

• 1:26:48Dax Shepard?

  Three hour.

• 1:26:49Speaker 01

  I was, I knew something was wrong as soon as I, I started to walk up. Cause a, a guy I know, someone who works at the Row.

• 1:27:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. You're.

• 1:27:01Speaker 01

  Shout out Max.

• 1:27:02Dax Shepard?

  Oh, God.

• 1:27:03Speaker 01

  Max and Max and Helen. So this is confusing.

• 1:27:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:27:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I saw him there and I, and we were chatting and he said, oh my God. He was like, you know, I came, I put my name down at, at 10. And went home and got, and now I'm back. And I was like, oh. And he was like, have you put your name down? And I was like, no.

• 1:27:25Speaker 01

  So that was red flag, you know?

• 1:27:28Dax Shepard?

  Do you send Kristen up front to see if they would?

• 1:27:30Speaker 01

  She wasn't there yet, but I of course thought it.

• 1:27:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we gotta get her up front.

• 1:27:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:35Dax Shepard?

  See if they can make some moves.

• 1:27:37Speaker 01

  And I, I went up there and I did use her name.

• 1:27:41Dax Shepard?

  Gray.

• 1:27:41Speaker 01

  It did not matter.

• 1:27:43Dax Shepard?

  Didn't, they didn't even bat an eyelash?

• 1:27:45Speaker 01

  Didn't do a thing.

• 1:27:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, good for them.

• 1:27:47Speaker 01

  So I, basically there were like three hours and just come back in three hours. And I was like, oh my God.

• 1:27:53Dax Shepard?

  At four?

• 1:27:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. So we pivoted.

• 1:27:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:58Speaker 01

  And then new plan, right? New plan on Sunday. Jess has therapy over, right in that neighborhood. So new plan before therapy, Jess is gonna put our name in and then we'll come three hours later.

• 1:28:14Dax Shepard?

  Smart.

• 1:28:15Speaker 01

  He texts me at like 11 and he said, no go. It's seven hours.

• 1:28:21Dax Shepard?

  Guys. That's not even real.

• 1:28:24Speaker 01

  I know. So it isn't.

• 1:28:25Dax Shepard?

  You can't even make that prediction.

• 1:28:26Speaker 01

  It isn't real. It's like.

• 1:28:27Dax Shepard?

  AI couldn't make that prediction.

• 1:28:28Speaker 01

  They basically just said like, no more.

• 1:28:30Dax Shepard?

  Don't go, don't come here.

• 1:28:31Speaker 01

  They did.

• 1:28:32Dax Shepard?

  We're closed. What if they closed? Like, we can't, we gotta close.

• 1:28:37Speaker 01

  No, yeah, so people get in line, I guess it opens at eight, people get in line at seven. And they kinda get like.

• 1:28:44Dax Shepard?

  Is there two tables inside this place?

• 1:28:46Speaker 01

  I don't know. But they go in, like whoever's there first obviously goes in and then they're like, come back in a half hour, come back in an hour. I mean, they're gonna have to figure out a better system than this because.

• 1:28:56Dax Shepard?

  Can they do the phone, text you?

• 1:28:58Speaker 01

  I know, I was like, you, do you text? And they basically said, no. And I was like, how are you doing this?

• 1:29:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, even like small towns in America have this system. You think LA is the most popular restaurant?

• 1:29:07Speaker 01

  Cause they also are open, I do think until like late, not late, but like later.

• 1:29:13Dax Shepard?

  Accommodating all the people with their name in at 4pm.

• 1:29:15Speaker 01

  Well, no, but you can't even put your name, that's what I'm confused about.

• 1:29:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:19Speaker 01

  So, I don't know, but I, I almost unfollowed them on Instagram because they were teasing, it was, it's such a tease. I saw this turkey with gravy and a pie. And I was like, oh, I want that.

• 1:29:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:32Speaker 01

  So, I haven't been in yet.

• 1:29:34Dax Shepard?

  And it's probably eating you up pretty good.

• 1:29:36Speaker 01

  It's eating me, it's getting to me.

• 1:29:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, if I saw the first time, three, I would never think of the place again.

• 1:29:42Speaker 01

  I know you wouldn't.

• 1:29:43Dax Shepard?

  I'm never gonna go there.

• 1:29:44Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:29:45Dax Shepard?

  Until they get shitty and people stop going, I'm gonna go try it.

• 1:29:47Speaker 01

  I've already been thinking like, God, when? Like, eight months from now will it die down? Like, when?

• 1:29:53Dax Shepard?

  Maybe Tom Cruise will take you there.

• 1:29:56Speaker 01

  I don't even think Tom could cut the line.

• 1:29:57Dax Shepard?

  Don't say that.

• 1:29:58Speaker 01

  No, I'm serious.

• 1:29:59Dax Shepard?

  He would come right through the ceiling. He wouldn't fucking put his name in. Ethan Hon will eat when he wants to eat. He can break into the Louvre and stuff. He could definitely eat at this restaurant whenever he wants.

• 1:30:10Speaker 01

  Oh my God, it looks so good.

• 1:30:12Dax Shepard?

  What if he wanna pick you up on a motorcycle? You gotta do it.

• 1:30:15Speaker 01

  Do you think I'm safe doing that?

• 1:30:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he's pretty good.

• 1:30:18Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:30:19Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:30:20Speaker 01

  Okay, then sure.

• 1:30:21Dax Shepard?

  You should get a leather jacket. God, this is great.

• 1:30:25Speaker 01

  No, I'm not gonna change.

• 1:30:26Dax Shepard?

  This is gonna be a hot night.

• 1:30:27Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna change my personality.

• 1:30:30Dax Shepard?

  Why not have some fun?

• 1:30:31Speaker 01

  I have fun.

• 1:30:33Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:30:34Speaker 01

  I, he, he, he like, he'll like me.

• 1:30:37Dax Shepard?

  Of course he will.

• 1:30:38Speaker 01

  He doesn't need to meet in a leather jacket.

• 1:30:40Dax Shepard?

  Also, it's fun to, to try out fun personas and go along and have different experiences than you've previously have. So maybe you, you have a cool motorcycle jacket, you hop on back like you're always on back. And you just, you buy into the whole thing.

• 1:30:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:59Dax Shepard?

  Doesn't sound fun to you?

• 1:31:00Speaker 01

  Not the motorcycle jacket.

• 1:31:01Dax Shepard?

  You're really afraid to lose yourself or something.

• 1:31:03Speaker 01

  I'm not afraid.

• 1:31:04Dax Shepard?

  Like if you act differently, you'll, or you'll forget who you are?

• 1:31:08Speaker 01

  No, I think it looks stupid.

• 1:31:10Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I think it looks adventurous.

• 1:31:12Speaker 01

  If you are doing something that's inauthentic to you, I, I, I think it's very, um, clear.

• 1:31:19Dax Shepard?

  But Monica, how do you know something's authentic to you if you haven't tried it? That's unknowable until you try it.

• 1:31:27Speaker 01

  Okay. You sound like a cult leader.

• 1:31:30Dax Shepard?

  Let's get a motorcycle jacket.

• 1:31:31Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:31:32Dax Shepard?

  For this date with Tom Cruise to Max and Emma's.

• 1:31:35Speaker 01

  No, Max and Helen's.

• 1:31:37Dax Shepard?

  The Helens.

• 1:31:37Speaker 01

  I'll probably wear the row.

• 1:31:41Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:31:41Speaker 01

  And.

• 1:31:42Dax Shepard?

  Not great motorcycle gear, I don't think. A lot of silks and thin. Like, why do Halloween? You know, why even do it? No one's any of the things that they get to pretend they are that day, but it's quite fun.

• 1:31:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, but we've already discussed me walking from the car to the house. It's like.

• 1:32:01Dax Shepard?

  You lose your confidence.

• 1:32:02Speaker 01

  I hate this.

• 1:32:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:05Speaker 01

  I, I.

• 1:32:06Dax Shepard?

  Okay. And I, yeah, and I like it.

• 1:32:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:09Dax Shepard?

  Like, oh, I'm this other creature now. People are seeing, but you get so used to how everyone sees you. The reaction's standard.

• 1:32:16Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:32:17Dax Shepard?

  You know what it's like to be you moving through the world, but all of a sudden you're wearing like six inch platform boots and a super tall mohawk and blah, blah. You get to try on for that day. Oh, look how people are looking at me. This is so interesting.

• 1:32:31Speaker 01

  That's what's fun about acting.

• 1:32:32Dax Shepard?

  Uh-huh.

• 1:32:33Speaker 01

  Is putting on personas and personalities and trying and, and doing that. That's fun.

• 1:32:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and it could be in real, in real life too.

• 1:32:42Speaker 01

  I feel like that's, um.

• 1:32:45Dax Shepard?

  You feel like a poser?

• 1:32:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do.

• 1:32:48Dax Shepard?

  Understood. And I think that's a common hurdle for people.

• 1:32:53Dax Shepard?

  But what's the difference between someone who's a poser and they're not? Someone just, they were just like, I don't, I'm, I'm not, I'm gonna do this. Like, no one's born authentically punk rock or not punk rock, or this or that.

• 1:33:04Speaker 01

  But you're, but you're drawn, you're, you're drawn to it. You're like, I like this. I like this aesthetic. I, this makes me feel. But I don't have that. So I would just be doing it, trying to work from the outside in to feel. I feel, but I feel unique.

• 1:33:22Dax Shepard?

  No, no, there's unique as a person. Yes, you're a unique person.

• 1:33:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:25Dax Shepard?

  And then there's your day to day life. If you could have a very unique day.

• 1:33:29Speaker 01

  Oh, I see.

• 1:33:30Dax Shepard?

  That's what I'm saying. Like.

• 1:33:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:33Dax Shepard?

  I.

• 1:33:33Speaker 01

  You just want me to dress the part.

• 1:33:35Dax Shepard?

  I love unique, feeling unique, having a unique experience.

• 1:33:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:41Dax Shepard?

  Like, I don't like wearing a tuxedo.

• 1:33:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I know.

• 1:33:45Dax Shepard?

  That's not for me. But I like that I wear a tuxedo sometimes and go to these award shows and I get to experience the whole thing.

• 1:33:51Speaker 01

  Do you? Because you're always like, you hate it. You hate that.

• 1:33:55Dax Shepard?

  I'm not looking forward to it. I don't like the inconvenience of having to have a suit, having to have it tailored, having to have hair and makeup. Like, all that stuff I'm not looking forward to. But being at the event dressed in the appropriate gear that you're supposed to be in, looking the part and pretending you're, um, in a highfaluting scenario, I find fun.

• 1:34:13Speaker 01

  Hmm, interesting.

• 1:34:15Dax Shepard?

  Oh yeah, this isn't my norm. I don't wear tuxes out to fancy black tie things.

• 1:34:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:20Dax Shepard?

  So what I'm doing, I'm like, oh yeah, this is out of the ordinary and unique and I appreciate it for that.

• 1:34:24Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:34:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:25Speaker 01

  I feel that that's maybe new for you.

• 1:34:28Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 1:34:29Speaker 01

  Cause I feel like you used to be very attached to your authenticity.

• 1:34:41Speaker 01

  And.

• 1:34:42Dax Shepard?

  I think I'm still very attached to my authenticity, for sure.

• 1:34:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I.

• 1:34:46Dax Shepard?

  But I've learned to incorporate like, oh yeah, that's authentically me. I'm someone who has to do that.

• 1:34:51Speaker 01

  Exactly. That's why that's a little different. I don't think me putting on a leather jacket and shaving my side. That's not authentically me. I think riding on a motorcycle could be, is, I've done that.

• 1:35:06Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:35:06Speaker 01

  But, but putting on like, a character.

• 1:35:11Dax Shepard?

  He's probably gonna pick you up in a Porsche, I think.

• 1:35:15Speaker 01

  How will we get in the restaurant then?

• 1:35:18Dax Shepard?

  He'll figure that out.

• 1:35:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:35:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, alright.

• 1:35:21Speaker 01

  Alright, let's do facts.

• 1:35:22Dax Shepard?

  Let's do some facts. Is this the vintage item you were talking about?

• 1:35:27Speaker 01

  Yes, I got this vintage.

• 1:35:28Dax Shepard?

  How old is it? Do you know?

• 1:35:30Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:35:33Dax Shepard?

  Circa 80s, 90s?

• 1:35:35Speaker 01

  I feel like it looks 80s.

• 1:35:38Dax Shepard?

  This is my new shirt from my tour that I went to. Sabrina Carpenter.

• 1:35:45Speaker 01

  Oh, cute.

• 1:35:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it says man's best friend.

• 1:35:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, it does.

• 1:35:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:51Speaker 01

  Because that's the name of the album.

• 1:35:53Dax Shepard?

  The new album.

• 1:35:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:54Dax Shepard?

  Didn't hear any of those tracks because it's the Short and Sweet tour, but...

• 1:35:56Speaker 01

  Oh, she didn't give you any?

• 1:35:58Dax Shepard?

  I don't think so.

• 1:36:01Dax Shepard?

  I'm finally relating to Swifties.

• 1:36:04Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:36:05Dax Shepard?

  Because I have found myself... All I'm listening to is Short and Sweet, okay? All day long.

• 1:36:10Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:36:11Dax Shepard?

  Every day. I'm starting to really be an armchair detective.

• 1:36:14Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:36:14Dax Shepard?

  For what boy she's talking about.

• 1:36:16Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:36:17Dax Shepard?

  I really get it now.

• 1:36:18Speaker 01

  Are you gonna vocally apologize?

• 1:36:21Dax Shepard?

  Nope, I'm not gonna apologize because I'll own that it's bad of me too. So I'm not gonna say, you know...

• 1:36:28Speaker 01

  But you need to apologize to Taylor because you think it's weird that she... You don't love that she does that, but now you're a fan of Sabrina who does that.

• 1:36:38Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and I'm still not a fan of it, but I like it.

• 1:36:42Speaker 01

  It feels like we're really parsing out deeds.

• 1:36:45Dax Shepard?

  No, like if I start stealing tomorrow...

• 1:36:47Speaker 01

  Please don't.

• 1:36:48Dax Shepard?

  If I start stealing tomorrow, I'll say, "Oh, I'm stealing." That doesn't mean I think stealing's right. It doesn't mean I need to go back and say like everyone who I said stole was wrong. No, I'm just... What I'm saying is I'm engaged in that juicy thing.

• 1:37:03Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 1:37:03Dax Shepard?

  And it's fun, I get it. It's still not great. It's still not good, but I do have theories.

• 1:37:12Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 1:37:13Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:37:13Speaker 01

  I mean, some, it's, it's, we all know.

• 1:37:17Dax Shepard?

  Do you know these ones? You already know about Sabrina's?

• 1:37:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:20Dax Shepard?

  You know so much.

• 1:37:21Speaker 01

  Everyone knows.

• 1:37:22Dax Shepard?

  No, no, I don't think everyone knows. I had to just go look it up.

• 1:37:26Speaker 01

  I know, but.

• 1:37:27Dax Shepard?

  But guess what? My hunch was confirmed by People Magazine.

• 1:37:30Speaker 01

  I know. Ew, see?

• 1:37:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yes.

• 1:37:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, bad.

• 1:37:33Dax Shepard?

  Yes, bad.

• 1:37:34Speaker 01

  But also, I don't want you to be offended by this. I love you deeply.

• 1:37:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:37:38Speaker 01

  But you're behind the times.

• 1:37:40Dax Shepard?

  Yes, of course, yeah.

• 1:37:41Speaker 01

  So everyone does know.

• 1:37:43Dax Shepard?

  Okay, then who is, um?

• 1:37:45Speaker 01

  I don't want to say it. I don't want to participate in the thing, right?

• 1:37:50Dax Shepard?

  Well, don't. I don't want to talk about that. Don't you do it with Taylor songs?

• 1:37:53Speaker 01

  Well, do I?

• 1:37:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you go like, oh, that song's about S E X. Charlie. Charlie X.

• 1:37:58Speaker 01

  Oh, Charlie.

• 1:37:59Dax Shepard?

  What is it? Charlie S E X?

• 1:38:01Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:38:05Dax Shepard?

  Come on now, help me out. You know what I'm saying.

• 1:38:07Speaker 01

  Charlie X C X. I didn't at first. I thought you were spelling out sex and I didn't understand it.

• 1:38:11Dax Shepard?

  Isn't that what her name spells out?

• 1:38:12Speaker 01

  No, X C X.

• 1:38:16Dax Shepard?

  Oh, there's no E.

• 1:38:16Speaker 01

  Charlie X C X.

• 1:38:18Dax Shepard?

  C sounds like E.

• 1:38:19Speaker 01

  Even Barack Obama had Charlie X C X on his, like, top 10, like, four years ago.

• 1:38:25Dax Shepard?

  But that's no shocker. Uh, Barry's always ahead of the curve.

• 1:38:28Speaker 01

  He is. He's on top of it.

• 1:38:29Dax Shepard?

  Than I am.

• 1:38:30Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:38:31Dax Shepard?

  And I'm always looking at his book list of the year and going like, oh, I should read some of those. It's not like.

• 1:38:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:35Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so I was listening and it, one was about like having read every self-help book and doing a mushroom trip. And I'm like, this sounds like, this sounds like, um, Shawn Mendes.

• 1:38:47Speaker 01

  Oh, no, I don't want to.

• 1:38:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:38:49Speaker 01

  We can't do this.

• 1:38:51Dax Shepard?

  Why?

• 1:38:52Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't. It doesn't feel right.

• 1:38:53Dax Shepard?

  It doesn't?

• 1:38:54Speaker 01

  He's a friend of the pod.

• 1:38:55Dax Shepard?

  I know. There's nothing, I'm not saying he's a bad boy. I'm just saying I think I figured out what the song's about. And I was so excited and I understand the detective work people feel like they're doing is very gratifying. So then I searched. Well, first I asked Chat.

• 1:39:10Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 1:39:11Dax Shepard?

  Who are the songs about?

• 1:39:13Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:39:13Dax Shepard?

  Chat's very ethical. Chat won't tell me.

• 1:39:15Speaker 01

  Chat is not very ethical.

• 1:39:17Dax Shepard?

  Mine, mine is very ethical. It wouldn't tell me.

• 1:39:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:39:20Dax Shepard?

  It just would say, oh, here's the themes. I don't think it wants to be liable.

• 1:39:25Speaker 01

  It lied to me.

• 1:39:27Dax Shepard?

  Liable, not lie.

• 1:39:28Speaker 01

  I think it's all the same. Yeah, it's, I don't know, anyway.

• 1:39:31Dax Shepard?

  Whatever the case, it did take me to a link where this People Magazine article.

• 1:39:38Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 1:39:38Dax Shepard?

  But they were, they were pretty much trying to credit every lyric on the album to Shawn Mendes. Which, there's been other lovers. I looked up her lovers. There's been a handful.

• 1:39:49Speaker 01

  Well, we know some of them are about.

• 1:39:51Dax Shepard?

  Barry Cogan is one of them.

• 1:39:52Speaker 01

  Kyogan, yes. Okay, I don't want to do this. This feels unethical to me for some reason. I don't know why.

• 1:39:58Dax Shepard?

  Interesting.

• 1:39:58Speaker 01

  But most of them are about Barry Cogan.

• 1:40:00Dax Shepard?

  So, let's not do it, but can we explore why it feels unethical?

• 1:40:03Speaker 01

  Um, yeah.

• 1:40:05Dax Shepard?

  We also just did Lily Jameson.

• 1:40:07Speaker 01

  Lily Al, but that's, that's so explicit.

• 1:40:10Dax Shepard?

  And David.

• 1:40:11Speaker 01

  That's my point. Like, I kind of like that Taylor and Sabrina and other artists.

• 1:40:19Dax Shepard?

  I need a nickname for her, maybe Sabrina's.

• 1:40:20Speaker 01

  Oh, you know, when we had, we had Joey King on some years ago. And she is very good friends with Sabrina Carpenter. And she said that on her ride over, I'll never forget this, she said on her ride, maybe she was lying, like chat.

• 1:40:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:34Speaker 01

  On her ride over, she was talking to Sabrina, and I think she called her Sabrina's or Sabrina or something.

• 1:40:41Dax Shepard?

  Like I'm doing.

• 1:40:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, and said, um, I'm going on Armchair Expert, and she said, I love that show.

• 1:40:47Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my god. We're getting sidetracked.

• 1:40:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:50Dax Shepard?

  So, you don't, you don't like to theorize on who these songs are.

• 1:40:56Speaker 01

  No, I do. I mean, I already, again, I already know. We all know.

• 1:40:59Dax Shepard?

  You already knew Shawn Mendes?

• 1:41:01Speaker 01

  People talk about this. It's also obvious because when you know someone's dating someone publicly.

• 1:41:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:08Speaker 01

  Then they break up and then these songs come out. It's like, duh.

• 1:41:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it is interesting though, because, like, I think about this a lot.

• 1:41:16Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:41:17Dax Shepard?

  This is what brought Truman Capote down.

• 1:41:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:41:20Dax Shepard?

  Is that he used everyone in his life as archetypes for his books. And then it was very, very thinly veiled.

• 1:41:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:27Dax Shepard?

  To the point where people felt quite betrayed and violated by him.

• 1:41:31Speaker 01

  I assume so, yeah.

• 1:41:32Dax Shepard?

  And he, people did not want to hang out with him at the end. And he, all he wanted was to be a socialite, you know?

• 1:41:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:37Dax Shepard?

  But when I think about, like, doing an ensemble show as a writer.

• 1:41:43Dax Shepard?

  I have these incredible archetypes in my life.

• 1:41:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:47Dax Shepard?

  And so I would want to use key essence of them. But then I need to build on and deviate from that. Cause I've established their engine. Now, now everything else is arbitrary, but I can see if you're on the outside, you're like, you would be inclined to think everything that came after the archetype was, was actually fact or reporting, but it's not.

• 1:42:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:09Dax Shepard?

  Anyways, Sabrina Carpenter.

• 1:42:11Speaker 01

  Please, please, please is definitely about Barry Keoghan.

• 1:42:15Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really? See, you're telling me something.

• 1:42:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:19Dax Shepard?

  Please, please, please.

• 1:42:21Speaker 01

  Which is my favorite song.

• 1:42:22Dax Shepard?

  Okay, let me look because all I do is listen to this album and I should know exactly what it is. It's, you're saying, um, please, please, please. Oh, that's the second song on the track. Oh. Don't embarrass me, motherfucker.

• 1:42:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:39Dax Shepard?

  It can't be about him if he's in the video.

• 1:42:41Speaker 01

  It was.

• 1:42:42Dax Shepard?

  She would have written the song long before a video gets made. And don't we think the timeline is they met on this video?

• 1:42:49Speaker 01

  No, no, no, they were together.

• 1:42:51Dax Shepard?

  For a hundred years.

• 1:42:52Speaker 01

  They were together before the video. Okay.

• 1:42:54Dax Shepard?

  Okay, I, I'm gonna, I need to do a little more research on that. I don't know how he would be in the video that's.

• 1:43:00Speaker 01

  I mean, it's, it's also like, it's not, this one is just like, this is an, you're kind of an embarrassment, but I, I like you and you're gonna break my heart, but I like you. Like, it's not like you already did it.

• 1:43:11Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:43:12Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:43:13Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Please, please.

• 1:43:15Speaker 01

  She's pleading.

• 1:43:18Speaker 01

  Anyway.

• 1:43:19Dax Shepard?

  That's not my jam. I mean, I like that song. Every song on the album's great.

• 1:43:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:23Dax Shepard?

  It's a great album. Monica.

• 1:43:27Speaker 01

  Hey, I know. Again, I know because this was like two summers ago.

• 1:43:32Dax Shepard?

  Well, hold on. I don't know if that's the right dates. I have the album right up on my phone. I can look. I don't know about two summers.

• 1:43:39Speaker 01

  I think it was.

• 1:43:40Dax Shepard?

  I mean, she's on tour right now. It was 2024 release.

• 1:43:44Speaker 01

  Yep, that's what I said.

• 1:43:46Dax Shepard?

  Twenty-third.

• 1:43:48Speaker 01

  Twenty twenty-four.

• 1:43:50Dax Shepard?

  Summer's kinda over.

• 1:43:51Speaker 01

  No, Please, Please, Please in Espresso had already come out.

• 1:43:54Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:43:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:43:55Dax Shepard?

  Okay, let's do some facts.

• 1:43:57Speaker 01

  People can't come here for current news. I guess that's, that's.

• 1:44:00Dax Shepard?

  Well, I gotta imagine there's a lot of dorks like me in the audience, though, that might. Well, certainly now the whole world isn't listening to the album. It's a very big album.

• 1:44:08Speaker 01

  It's a huge album.

• 1:44:09Dax Shepard?

  It's not thriller, so I'm trying to push it to thriller numbers.

• 1:44:13Speaker 01

  That's like the reference, like, it's, it's.

• 1:44:16Dax Shepard?

  That's the biggest album of all time.

• 1:44:17Speaker 01

  Okay, but it's huge.

• 1:44:19Dax Shepard?

  It's a huge album.

• 1:44:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:21Dax Shepard?

  Huge.

• 1:44:22Speaker 01

  Huge album.

• 1:44:22Dax Shepard?

  No, it's a, it's a great success.

• 1:44:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it could be bigger. And a lot, not everyone is already, not everyone's sick of it yet, Monica. Some people are just going.

• 1:44:31Speaker 01

  I'm not sick of it.

• 1:44:31Dax Shepard?

  People are, some people are going, wow, I've heard of her, but I didn't know.

• 1:44:38Speaker 01

  I can't.

• 1:44:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:44:40Dax Shepard?

  But my song, I just wanna recommend my song.

• 1:44:42Speaker 01

  Okay, you already did, but let's do it again.

• 1:44:46Speaker 01

  Let's do it every day. It's your favorite song. You love it. You do.

• 1:44:51Dax Shepard?

  I love it more than anything.

• 1:44:52Speaker 01

  I, well, no, you don't love it more than anything. That's a crazy thing to say.

• 1:44:57Dax Shepard?

  I love it more than air.

• 1:44:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:44:59Dax Shepard?

  Okay, my favorite song is called Don't Smile.

• 1:45:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:11Dax Shepard?

  I didn't really have to look it up, but I did look it up, cuz I know it's Don't Smile, cuz it happened, Cry Because It's Over.

• 1:45:19Speaker 01

  I love that, I love that line, cuz it's a blippy.

• 1:45:23Dax Shepard?

  Very validated, cuz I sent the song to a very, very accomplished songwriter and producer.

• 1:45:29Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:45:29Dax Shepard?

  And I said, do you like this song? I can't stop listening to it. And he wrote back immediately, oh my God, that's my favorite song on that album, exclamation point. And I felt so validated.

• 1:45:40Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 1:45:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and expert said it was the best song on the album.

• 1:45:45Speaker 01

  His favorite, not the best.

• 1:45:47Dax Shepard?

  He, his favorite would be the best.

• 1:45:49Speaker 01

  Oh, let's, we're not doing that. He can't do this. He might say the best is this, but that's my favorite.

• 1:45:57Dax Shepard?

  He can't, no way. Whatever song he likes the most, he is the one he'd say is best.

• 1:46:02Speaker 01

  No, there are podcasts that I, are my favorite that aren't the best.

• 1:46:07Dax Shepard?

  Okay. All right, I'm gonna, listen, I'm, we're in the middle of a fact check and Monica's making me very angry right now because I said I reached out to a very successful and brilliant songwriter to say that, um, what's my favorite song?

• 1:46:25Speaker 01

  Oh, don't smile.

• 1:46:26Dax Shepard?

  Don't smile, and that this person responded, oh, that's my favorite on the album. And then Monica, exclamation point, and then Monica's suggesting that you didn't say it was the best. And I said, well, your favorite would definitely be the one you think is best.

• 1:46:44Speaker 01

  Musically, musically.

• 1:46:45Dax Shepard?

  And she said, no, that's not true. You could think that another song's the best, but that your favorite is, um, Don't Smile. Who's right? Pinnies.

• 1:47:01Speaker 01

  Okay. Facts. Okay, now I have someone to call for something important.

• 1:47:08Dax Shepard?

  Cone Jim Brooks?

• 1:47:09Speaker 01

  Almost.

• 1:47:12Speaker 05

  Hey, Ma.

• 1:47:13Speaker 01

  You're on air, because you didn't send it to me, so now you have to do it live.

• 1:47:20Speaker 05

  Oh, okay.

• 1:47:23Speaker 05

  Um, my, uh, the Shoe Maniac?

• 1:47:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:47:26Speaker 05

  Come on down and check me out. I'm the Shoe Maniac and I sell thousands and thousands of pair of women's all leather shoes. I sell them cheap, folks, that's how I do it, that's why I sell more shoes than anybody downtown. Now, if you like plastic shoes, keep on looking, because I hate plastic shoes, I can't stand plastic shoes, I sell nothing but all leather shoes, that's why I sell more shoes than anybody downtown.

• 1:47:47Speaker 01

  Thank you, Aaron.

• 1:47:48Dax Shepard?

  So good. Now, is your, is your character specifically Cajun, or that's just a coincidence? Or did you go like, I'm going Cajun with this?

• 1:47:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, you know, yeah, I guess I'm kinda talking like this, you know?

• 1:48:03Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 1:48:05Speaker 05

  Plus, I'm missing a front tooth, so I'm, so I think it makes me, I got a little bit of a lisp, a lisp.

• 1:48:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you always make him Cajun, and that's part of the sell, it works.

• 1:48:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, a little bit like, uh, yeah, yeah, a little, little more like flirtatious, outgoingish, you know?

• 1:48:24Dax Shepard?

  I had rubber shoes.

• 1:48:25Speaker 01

  Gregarious, no plastic.

• 1:48:27Speaker 05

  And we gave out, and we gave out free popcorn at the store, free popcorn, free drinks, I'm gonna give you a, free popcorn, and I'd have to pick out a lady, you know, from the crowd and tell her to come in.

• 1:48:38Dax Shepard?

  Would you pick a, would you always pick a lady that you thought looked hungry for popcorn? Or just the prettiest, what was, who did you invite?

• 1:48:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean you find somebody, usually it was a lady with some kids who looked like she was miserable out there in the sun. And, you know, get her in for a, a cold drink and some, uh, free popcorn. The free popcorn was that, was that, you know, that gets all kinds of people in the store.

• 1:48:59Dax Shepard?

  Sure, hungry.

• 1:49:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then they bring their kids and then they have to buy four pairs of shoes. That's a good hack.

• 1:49:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, and popcorn costs nothing to make, so, you know.

• 1:49:10Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 1:49:11Speaker 05

  Sometimes I see these stores and they're just, you know, you gotta think of things outside of the box to get people in your store. You can't just have a store and expect people to come in.

• 1:49:18Dax Shepard?

  You gotta break through the clutter.

• 1:49:20Speaker 05

  Gotta break through the crowd, man. Gotta break through the crowd, slide some, there's always something.

• 1:49:24Speaker 01

  There's always something. Um, all right, Eric, well, we love you and, and I wanted the world to hear that.

• 1:49:31Speaker 05

  I love you to death, you guys. Talk later, bye.

• 1:49:35Speaker 01

  So that, that came up because we talked about selling women's shoes. He had a fear of selling women, having to sell women's shoes for a living.

• 1:49:43Dax Shepard?

  Oh, sure.

• 1:49:44Speaker 01

  And our friend Eric, who we brought up in the episode, he's sell, he sold women's shoes very well.

• 1:49:49Dax Shepard?

  As a child.

• 1:49:50Speaker 01

  As a, as a kid, yeah. His dad's business.

• 1:49:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:53Speaker 01

  And as you can hear, he was great at it.

• 1:49:56Dax Shepard?

  He definitely, probably even cuter when it's coming out of a 10-year-old.

• 1:49:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely.

• 1:50:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he's got a speech memorized.

• 1:50:02Speaker 01

  Okay, what was the first TV show to have a black lead character, sitcom? It was called Julia, 1968 to 71, and then Room to 22, which was his, which was 1969 to 74. And then, The Cosby Show.

• 1:50:19Dax Shepard?

  Uh, full of black leads.

• 1:50:21Speaker 01

  Okey dokey. Was Mary Tyler Moore's show the first female lead that didn't depend on a man? It says it, Honey West was the first network TV series of a female lead whose story was not dependent on a man. Premiered in 1965, starred Anne Francis as a private detective. While earlier shows featured female leads, Honey West was specifically designed to center on a female character in a non-traditional role, a private eye. Okay. What show did Taxi follow MASH? He didn't say that. He just said a popular show.

• 1:50:54Dax Shepard?

  Well, also, that's an interesting ding ding ding, because those both have the most beautiful theme songs that don't match at all their comedic genre.

• 1:51:05Speaker 01

  Hmm. Well, okay, so it followed MASH from the seventy-eight to seventy-nine season and then followed Happy Days during seventy-nine to eighty.

• 1:51:16Dax Shepard?

  Which does not have a super beautiful jazz song.

• 1:51:19Speaker 01

  Isn't it? Monday, Tuesday, Happy Days.

• 1:51:23Dax Shepard?

  Tuesday, Friday, Happy Days. The weekends go.

• 1:51:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, catchy.

• 1:51:34Dax Shepard?

  I used to know all the lyrics. Ugh.

• 1:51:36Speaker 01

  It's hard.

• 1:51:36Dax Shepard?

  That's a bad sign.

• 1:51:38Speaker 01

  Well, you had to push it aside to have Sabrina in there.

• 1:51:41Dax Shepard?

  I gotta make room. There's a new queen in town.

• 1:51:45Speaker 01

  Um, how much money did The Simpsons generate?

• 1:51:48Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, he won in Tama.

• 1:51:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. He says he didn't know, but um, it's estimated to be well over fourteen billion.

• 1:51:56Dax Shepard?

  Fourteen billion?

• 1:51:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:00Dax Shepard?

  Dude.

• 1:52:00Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 1:52:01Dax Shepard?

  From jokes.

• 1:52:03Speaker 01

  I know, how cool.

• 1:52:04Dax Shepard?

  Fourteen billion.

• 1:52:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. Did the Mary Tyler Moore Show win a Peabody? Yes, in seventy-seven. So that's cool. Um, it also won twenty-nine Emmys.

• 1:52:17Dax Shepard?

  Mary Tyler Moore? I've never watched Mary Tyler Moore, have you?

• 1:52:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I used to watch when I was at my grandparents' house when I was little. They had a Nickelodeon block party summer.

• 1:52:27Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:52:28Speaker 01

  And Monday through Friday, there was a show and then they would just play that show all night. And it was like Bewitched was one night, I Dream of Jeannie was one night, Mary Tyler Moore Show was one night. I am some others.

• 1:52:40Dax Shepard?

  And they'd show a whole season in one night?

• 1:52:42Speaker 01

  Well, no, they just showed like some episodes and then for the summer, they would do that.

• 1:52:47Dax Shepard?

  Well, that's fun.

• 1:52:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:49Dax Shepard?

  It was an education. And did you like it?

• 1:52:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:52Dax Shepard?

  I need to watch it.

• 1:52:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm sure it holds up.

• 1:52:56Dax Shepard?

  CBD?

• 1:52:56Speaker 01

  I don't know. I mean, I'm sure it's still like, oh, wow, that's awesome.

• 1:53:00Dax Shepard?

  For the time. I just wonder if you'd go for the time.

• 1:53:03Speaker 01

  You'd have, I think you might have to say for the time.

• 1:53:05Dax Shepard?

  For the time, yeah.

• 1:53:06Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 1:53:07Dax Shepard?

  That's everything.

• 1:53:08Speaker 01

  That's it for Jim Brooks.

• 1:53:10Dax Shepard?

  Jim Brooks.

• 1:53:12Speaker 01

  All right.

• 1:53:12Dax Shepard?

  All right, love you.

• 1:53:13Speaker 01

  Love you.